The Official Choose A Director Thread

[BruceBanner]

oh I know..the copied dialog was downright plagerism.

I didn't mind the copied dialogue, that was just paying homage. What I minded was the paying homage.

[BruceBanner]

one line would have been fine, sort of a nod if you will, but imho singer went overboard. IF he does the sequel, I really hope he makes it his own..

Hopefully, that's a very large IF.

[Dr. Fate]

I agree with you, but the rest of your post implies that even though you know Tim Burton didn't direct all 4 Batman crapfests, you think Donner directed all 4 of the first Superman movies. He only "officially" did one.
They're all still connected to the first film that Donner did, and feature the same general cast for the most part, so it seems reasonable to consider that the Donnerverse. They follow the events of the first film, just as Batman Forever and Batman & Robin follow the events of the first two Tim Burton Batman films.

[BruceBanner]

Ok, ok is too short, so ok is too short lengthens ok because ok is too short.

[Gold Samurai]

Dr. Fate[/B] ]
Time to drop the bumbling, stupid, inept Clark Kent and give us a more assertive Clark Kent, a man who behaves in a manner that convinces the audience that he could really get a job as a reporter and hold onto that job as a reporter. Give us a smart, assertive Lois who knows how to spell, is not a chain smoker and not a prissy ice queen. Give us a Superman who owes his personal ethics to his adoptive parents and not the ghost of his scientist dad and is not above using his powers to put a little scare into villains while not actually killing them. Give us a truly intelligent Lex Luthor who knows how to work the public and runs arguably the most powerful company in the world and with each day moves ever so closer to attaining political power. And besides Lex, give us a villain who can actually knock Superman off his feet without having to resort to Kryptonite.


thats sort of what Lois and Clark were trying to do. It's a good thing they tried to be different with no Fortress and both Kents alive, but the Donnerverse was just to strong and people still wanted something like that.

t's like if you don't follow the donnerverse your going to be cursed with a homicidal superman and polar bears lol

[Dr. Fate]

thats sort of what Lois and Clark were trying to do. It's a good thing they tried to be different with no Fortress and both Kents alive, but the Donnerverse was just to strong and people still wanted something like that.

t's like if you don't follow the donnerverse your going to be cursed with a homicidal superman and polar bears lol
We have to try though, we have to push audience perception away from the Donnerverse. We need the Superman of the films to evolve, and when I say evolve I don't mean sticking him with a bastard child.

[Octoberist]

A movie like TAS would be a disaster. It would be Pirates of the Caribbean 2, X-men 3, Spider-man 3, StarWars: Episode 2...

It's just too much crap to absorb, and it's never for the better. You can't have a movie where Superman's punching giant squid across an alien planet. Moviegoers have no connection to that crap.

why do people go to such extremes (no offense ;))

Honestly, a movie like the animated series can be a diaster IF they got bad writers.

A movie like the Donner movies can be a disaster if they had bad writers.

Singer and his crew are talented, but they didn't hit the mark.

[Hypestyle]

heh.. the next film should mine the comics/cartoon mythology much more deeply, getting away from the Lex land-schemes plots.. more real fights should be taking place.. villain(s) besides Lex.. and no cute female lex sidekicks..

[SuperDaniel]

I AM SICK. i WANT A POST-CRISIS REBOOT.

[NotFadeAway]

I AM SICK. i WANT A POST-CRISIS REBOOT.

Same here....I want someone to finally do post-crisis judgement. I'm so sick of love letters to the silver-age when there is much better character orieted material out there nowadays!

[NotFadeAway]

I forgot all about this thread....when the hell did it get bumped?

[A Dark Knight]

I forgot all about this thread....when the hell did it get bumped?

I think if they do a total restart of Superman, it will be without the "Donner" storyline at all, which I wouldn't mind seeing either.

[NotFadeAway]

I think if they do a total restart of Superman, it will be without the "Donner" storyline at all, which I wouldn't mind seeing either.

My restart idea is a origin flick featuring Superman v. Braniac, with Lex and LexCorp operating in the background! You would have to be careful with who you cast as Lex though. He wouldn't have the biggest role in the first flick, maybe announce his candidacy for President.

My "established" Superman idea, that I had before McG, Ratner, and Singer came on board was to have our hero face off against President Lex Luthor and Metallo. I would opened the movie with Kal-El's ship coming to Earth through the stars, with Jor-El as a narrator, not just for the opening scene in space, but the movie in general, acting as sort of a guardian angel, watching over his son. The ship would have crashed by the red truck, the Kents take in Clark and wonder what will become of there son, and I would have cut to a red boot, about to save the day. Basically, President Luthor would, through an already established LexCorp and a well paid set up Morgan Edge, be funding and supplying terrorist groups to attack the United States, so Lex can in turn create his army of Metallo's to destory his enemies and strike fear in to the heart of the world, because my Lex would have been very ethno-centric and hateful of other cultures, thinking he is doing the right thing, and in the process is hurting Americans and other nations. President Luthor also would have been very outspoken about how America could not trust other nations. I had just finished reading Mein Kempf when I came up with this idea, and I drew alot of inspirations from Hitler for my Lex Luthor. I wanted to make Lex Luthor the sickest, darkest to ever grace the screen, up against the greatest hero of all time. Of course there would already be a prototype Metallo, made to wipe out Superman and anyone who might try to rat him out on his plan. I wrote a scene that pays homage to the Terminator, where Metallo destroys a group of terrorists who are on to Lex's plan. Of course, Superman, and Lois, would be the only one's who see what is happening and believe Lex is setting this all up, but after Superman cannot prove it, he retreats to the farm after learning that MARTHA KENT has been stricken with cancer, and has a short time to live. Martha has never been the Kent to die before, and I wanted to explore that. It is here I would show flashback scene's to Clark's youth, intertwined with him not only grieving for his mother, but wondering if his life's purpose was a waste, seeing that Lex was now President and brainwashing people. Clark would question himself, his faith in humanity, and try to embrace his own immortality in the face of his mothers death, realizing he will always someday be alone, which, in my story, would be what keeps him away from Lois. Kal-El would also wonder who he really is, Superman or Clark Kent, and I would turn that debate into a storyline. Of course, Superman would have an epiphany and remember that he is what stands between good and evil, that the fight will never stop and it is up to him to protect the innocent, helped by his mother's memory and the flashbacks to his childhood were he discovered who he wanted to be, and would reinforce the ideals of the character for new viewers without being an origin story. Lois, on the other hand, finds herself missing Clark Kent and knowing that she loves him more than a friend, and after being tipped of by one Lana Lang, goes to the farm for a dramatic confrontation. Followed by one of Lex's goons, Metallo attacks the Kent farm and basically destroys everything, and gets away due to Superman needing to save his dad and Lois, and this also leads to a tender moment with the three of them rebuilding the farm at the end of the film.

After talking with Dr. Hamiliton, who has worked on the Metallo project in it's infant stages and quit, Superman knows he can prove what Lex's is doing by removing a memory chip from Metallo, although he might risk killing it/him. This creates a moral dilemma, but I had Superman, after a brutal fight in downtown Metropolis, remove the chip while not "killing" Metallo, show up in Washington, D.C., to show the man Lex really is before Congress and the Vice President, who I would show to be a good, moral man who often disagree's with Lex and was only picked to be the running mate because of his popularity, and after proven to be the bastard that he is, Lex would attempt to ecscape via his henchman from LexCorp, and after Superman tried to stop him, Lex would have the Kryptonite ring, and brutally beat the wholy hell out of Superman, who is both weakened and not willing to strike a fatal blow in any way, shape, or form. Lois would save Superman, however, with a gun shot to the back of Lex Luthor, doing what Superman could not do and returning the favor of being saved so many times.

I really wanted to create a dark, mean world with Superman being the light, the silver lining of hope. Again, I wanted to create the darkest villian of all time. And I wanted to present the Man of Steel overcoming his own "human" doubts and feelings to reign supreme as the champion of all heroes. The Martha Kent angle would have represented his inability to save everyone because everyone dies, but that shouldn't stop you from making the world a better place.

I toyed with the idea of Lex discovering Supermans identity of Clark Kent, and Lex actually, via a will, giving LexCorp to Clark for the sequel, which would have been Darkseid, because if Lex failed in his plan to make the world a better place with his methods, he would know Superman was right all along. I never made a decision.

I'm still working on my origin restart, like I said, it's Superman vs. Braniac with Lex operating in the background, while being a straightforward restart. I'll get back when I have more!

[BrollySupersj]

Personally I love the Donner universe for Superman.

It's the crystal technology for Krypton rather than computers and rockets.

I hated that ****.

[Jochimus]

Personally I love the Donner universe for Superman.

It's the crystal technology for Krypton rather than computers and rockets.

I hated that ****.

I actually prefer the crystal technology as opposed to computers and rockets, because it's different from the same old stuff for an alien race in a sci-fi movie, and still is by today's standards when every alien race that's shown coming to Earth can be taken out by any computer hacker. The only thing Luthor ever got out of the crystals was knowledge about a dead civilization and a couple criminals who were ALREADY on their way to Earth, plus the only crystal shown to be capable of generating any sort of land-mass is the Father Crystal (IMO "Superman Returns" is as much 'true' Donnerverse as "Superman: Doomsday" is the 'true' DCAU).

[Juice2020]

They need to follow the formula Batman Begins and TDK is using take a couple of classic comic stories and make a movie. Don't use Donner material its old and out dated.
Superman post Crisis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pre Crisis

[Lightning54SC]

My restart idea is a origin flick featuring Superman v. Braniac, with Lex and LexCorp operating in the background! You would have to be careful with who you cast as Lex though. He wouldn't have the biggest role in the first flick, maybe announce his candidacy for President.

My "established" Superman idea, that I had before McG, Ratner, and Singer came on board was to have our hero face off against President Lex Luthor and Metallo. I would opened the movie with Kal-El's ship coming to Earth through the stars, with Jor-El as a narrator, not just for the opening scene in space, but the movie in general, acting as sort of a guardian angel, watching over his son. The ship would have crashed by the red truck, the Kents take in Clark and wonder what will become of there son, and I would have cut to a red boot, about to save the day. Basically, President Luthor would, through an already established LexCorp and a well paid set up Morgan Edge, be funding and supplying terrorist groups to attack the United States, so Lex can in turn create his army of Metallo's to destory his enemies and strike fear in to the heart of the world, because my Lex would have been very ethno-centric and hateful of other cultures, thinking he is doing the right thing, and in the process is hurting Americans and other nations. President Luthor also would have been very outspoken about how America could not trust other nations. I had just finished reading Mein Kempf when I came up with this idea, and I drew alot of inspirations from Hitler for my Lex Luthor. I wanted to make Lex Luthor the sickest, darkest to ever grace the screen, up against the greatest hero of all time. Of course there would already be a prototype Metallo, made to wipe out Superman and anyone who might try to rat him out on his plan. I wrote a scene that pays homage to the Terminator, where Metallo destroys a group of terrorists who are on to Lex's plan. Of course, Superman, and Lois, would be the only one's who see what is happening and believe Lex is setting this all up, but after Superman cannot prove it, he retreats to the farm after learning that MARTHA KENT has been stricken with cancer, and has a short time to live. Martha has never been the Kent to die before, and I wanted to explore that. It is here I would show flashback scene's to Clark's youth, intertwined with him not only grieving for his mother, but wondering if his life's purpose was a waste, seeing that Lex was now President and brainwashing people. Clark would question himself, his faith in humanity, and try to embrace his own immortality in the face of his mothers death, realizing he will always someday be alone, which, in my story, would be what keeps him away from Lois. Kal-El would also wonder who he really is, Superman or Clark Kent, and I would turn that debate into a storyline. Of course, Superman would have an epiphany and remember that he is what stands between good and evil, that the fight will never stop and it is up to him to protect the innocent, helped by his mother's memory and the flashbacks to his childhood were he discovered who he wanted to be, and would reinforce the ideals of the character for new viewers without being an origin story. Lois, on the other hand, finds herself missing Clark Kent and knowing that she loves him more than a friend, and after being tipped of by one Lana Lang, goes to the farm for a dramatic confrontation. Followed by one of Lex's goons, Metallo attacks the Kent farm and basically destroys everything, and gets away due to Superman needing to save his dad and Lois, and this also leads to a tender moment with the three of them rebuilding the farm at the end of the film.

After talking with Dr. Hamiliton, who has worked on the Metallo project in it's infant stages and quit, Superman knows he can prove what Lex's is doing by removing a memory chip from Metallo, although he might risk killing it/him. This creates a moral dilemma, but I had Superman, after a brutal fight in downtown Metropolis, remove the chip while not "killing" Metallo, show up in Washington, D.C., to show the man Lex really is before Congress and the Vice President, who I would show to be a good, moral man who often disagree's with Lex and was only picked to be the running mate because of his popularity, and after proven to be the bastard that he is, Lex would attempt to ecscape via his henchman from LexCorp, and after Superman tried to stop him, Lex would have the Kryptonite ring, and brutally beat the wholy hell out of Superman, who is both weakened and not willing to strike a fatal blow in any way, shape, or form. Lois would save Superman, however, with a gun shot to the back of Lex Luthor, doing what Superman could not do and returning the favor of being saved so many times.

I really wanted to create a dark, mean world with Superman being the light, the silver lining of hope. Again, I wanted to create the darkest villian of all time. And I wanted to present the Man of Steel overcoming his own "human" doubts and feelings to reign supreme as the champion of all heroes. The Martha Kent angle would have represented his inability to save everyone because everyone dies, but that shouldn't stop you from making the world a better place.

I toyed with the idea of Lex discovering Supermans identity of Clark Kent, and Lex actually, via a will, giving LexCorp to Clark for the sequel, which would have been Darkseid, because if Lex failed in his plan to make the world a better place with his methods, he would know Superman was right all along. I never made a decision.

I'm still working on my origin restart, like I said, it's Superman vs. Braniac with Lex operating in the background, while being a straightforward restart. I'll get back when I have more!


actually id like to see htis kind of made, its the oppisite of everything we see... only thing is i dont wanna lex to know bout kal el and his identity... but after lex is booted out or his campign ends he meets brainiac to help him rig another election or something, or use darksied as his next villain, also use the eradicator as supermans source of kryptonian knowledge insetead of jorel

[GhostPoet]

Just want to add...yes. I HATE the donnerverse Superman.

[bgshw44]

love the donnerverse as it applies to
A) the williams music
B) Powerful opening credits
C) design of fotress/krypton
D)Brando
E) Superman is the real person/pa kent is dead

[Dr. Fate]

They need to follow the formula Batman Begins and TDK is using take a couple of classic comic stories and make a movie. Don't use Donner material its old and out dated.
Superman post Crisis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pre Crisis
I agree.

[shieldshero]

25 years after superman the movie, it was probably time for a new vision of the man of steel, after superman returns. . . I don't think we have a choice!

I've watched the original Donner movie each year for most of my life, I didn't need to see an inferior, glossy, cgi version, made up of re-hashed Donner material, when the old movie was so prominent in our collective memories from countless TV showings etc. . .

The odd nod to the original perhaps, but raping the title sequence, score etc was just plain lazy. . . I say no more Donnerverse, use the comics. . . and the animated series, even some of the character dynamic's from new adventures (the early episodes struck the right dynamic as far as the daily planet and Lexcorp are concerned)

I fear now though, that Singer has confused the general cinema audience with his muddled up Donnerverse history that even a re-boot won't re-generate the public’s love for the man of steel. . .

[NotFadeAway]

actually id like to see htis kind of made, its the oppisite of everything we see... only thing is i dont wanna lex to know bout kal el and his identity... but after lex is booted out or his campign ends he meets brainiac to help him rig another election or something, or use darksied as his next villain, also use the eradicator as supermans source of kryptonian knowledge insetead of jorel

Thank You. It is different from what we have seen, which is a goof thing. I couldn't make up my mind if Lex should find out Kal-El's indentity or not or if Clark/Superman should get LexCorp. My thought was that with the power of LexCorp, Clark could help even more people through charitable foundations, building low income housing, etc etc. And in my idea for a sequel involving Darkseid, he would have the military branch of LexCorp at his resource. But again, I hadn't my mind. I'm just happy you liked my idea as a whole!

[daywalker2007]

25 years after superman the movie, it was probably time for a new vision of the man of steel, after superman returns. . . I don't think we have a choice!

I've watched the original Donner movie each year for most of my life, I didn't need to see an inferior, glossy, cgi version, made up of re-hashed Donner material, when the old movie was so prominent in our collective memories from countless TV showings etc. . .

The odd nod to the original perhaps, but raping the title sequence, score etc was just plain lazy. . . I say no more Donnerverse, use the comics. . . and the animated series, even some of the character dynamic's from new adventures (the early episodes struck the right dynamic as far as the daily planet and Lexcorp are concerned)

I fear now though, that Singer has confused the general cinema audience with his muddled up Donnerverse history that even a re-boot won't re-generate the public’s love for the man of steel. . .

Then again, this is the big issue and problem that anybody is going to have when doing a superman movie. Fundamental factors which are impossible to ignore or simply toss away, they are now integral to the superman mythology in terms of the worldwide audience.

You have the following factors which are more or less imbedded in almost everybody's view of superman as a movie character, its absolutely impossible to ignore these factors, however much people may hate them or love them.

1.) John Williams Superman Theme (Known around the world as the definitive superman theme)
2.) The Design of the Fortress of Solitude in its Icy Environment
3.) The Origin story with Brando as Jor El and the way Donner showed it on screen.

In my opinion, If WB had decided to go with a reboot with Singer in charge, then I would think they would have kept all the above 3 factors, even if they were an integral part of the Donnerverse.

Alternatively, if WB wanted a total reboot, they might have simply tossed everything that was familiar such as the Williams theme and gone with totally new.

however, would the public accept a reboot without the famous music and themes of Williams?

I very much doubt it.

I think no matter what WB do with MOS, whether it is a sequel or a mild reboot, they have to keep the Williams Theme as an absolute minimum.

Its not like Batman, where the 66 series has its own famous theme and the 89 and 92 Burton movies have the famous Elfman theme.
Batman also has the 05 Zimmer theme as well now.

Superman in most peoples eyes has the john williams theme and nothing else.

Its a very difficult task, and someone with big balls is gonna have to make a decision soon!

[daywalker2007]

if they are indeed going ahead with a sequel, which nobody knows at this moment in time.

this biggest issue is the kid, jason.

This is the biggest flaw of Superman Returns. Without that kid,
making a direct sequel with more action and a better story would be so much easier.

But the fact that superman has a kid now and this has to be followed up in any sequel, its a big ask for any writer to find a solution.

There is only one way to solve it to be honest, Kill him off.

Either that, or WB is going for a reboot.

[NotFadeAway]

I'd be interested in a Zimmer Superman theme. Maybe Jerry Goldsmith.....

[daywalker2007]

yeah, i too would love a jerry goldsmith attempt at a superman theme,

just a shame he is dead!

as for Zimmer, i don't zimmer has the creative ability to craft a superman theme.

Zimmer's themes just sound too similar to one another, and are virtually interchangeable. Thats his biggest flaw.

I would say the only person capable of producing a different but triumphant superman theme would be Vangelis. He would nail a theme which would be perfect for Superman. The guy is a genius.

If a total reboot is being planned, Vangelis deserves to give us some epic score!

[NotFadeAway]

yeah, i too would love a jerry goldsmith attempt at a superman theme,

just a shame he is dead!

as for Zimmer, i don't zimmer has the creative ability to craft a superman theme.

Zimmer's themes just sound too similar to one another, and are virtually interchangeable. Thats his biggest flaw.

I would say the only person capable of producing a different but triumphant superman theme would be Vangelis. He would nail a theme which would be perfect for Superman. The guy is a genius.

If a total reboot is being planned, Vangelis deserves to give us some epic score!

Wait....Goldsmith is dead? I didn't know that lol!

[Zooks]

i want lexcorp luthor... not the real estate jackass. that's really all i wanted. singer had a chance to do it with luthor becoming rich and avoiding more prison but no, it's about real estate...

[teseract]

I'm sick of the whole Post-Crisis era. Superman died in 1986 and was replaced with an impostor, who deserves the title Whinerman more than Superman. His characterization was used in the Timmverse and sadly in Superman Returns. A weak willed, inefficient, angst-filled, doubter.

Gimme Donner, gimme Fleischer KILL Post-Crisis and everything made in its template.

[SuperDaniel]

^:rolleyes:

[NotFadeAway]

I'm sick of the whole Post-Crisis era. Superman died in 1986 and was replaced with an impostor, who deserves the title Whinerman more than Superman. His characterization was used in the Timmverse and sadly in Superman Returns. A weak willed, inefficient, angst-filled, doubter.

Gimme Donner, gimme Fleischer KILL Post-Crisis and everything made in its template.


Yea, I guess some folks just don't like substance when it comes to characters.

To hell with Donner, to hell with Fleischer, and to hell with there boring, redundant, uninspired, character drivenless storytelling approach!

[teseract]

Yea, I guess some folks just don't like substance when it comes to characters.

To hell with Donner, to hell with Fleischer, and to hell with there boring, redundant, uninspired, character drivenless storytelling approach!

Substance? Post-Crisis with its cliche, marvelized approaches? Whimpyman better than Donner's Superman? BWAHAHA http://aggrosiv.ag.funpic.de/home/sb/images/smiley/rofl.gif

[Spade]

I liked Superman in the animated series far more than I liked any other incarnation. He was limited by his morals for most of the time, but when he was finally pushed too far he showed why they called him Superman.

Though Donner did a great job with Superman, I don't want to see "The Man of Steel," to be perfectly honest. Singer has shown that his only twist for Superman is to make him mopey to counterbalance the invincibility. I'd rather see a new incarnation that didn't have to deal with that issue.

[hammy]

....Because I know I am. To me, Donner's Superman universe has always been the most boring, practical superhero universe Ive ever seen.

It is a dark day at the hype that these words are spoken. :dry:
(even though I agree with a couple of points you made.)

[Spade]

I didn't think Donner's Superman was boring at all. It's just that the material is dated and limited to what was possible for a comic book film at the time. It made people believe a man could fly and gave us an incredibly charismatic Superman. That alone makes it far from boring, even if the plot is really iffy in retrospect.

[Dr. Fate]

Love your avatar Chibi.

[SuperDaniel]

Donner`s Lex Luthor plain SUCKS!! Post-crisis Lex IS THE WAY TO GO.

[Dr. Fate]

Donner`s Lex Luthor plain SUCKS!! Post-crisis Lex IS THE WAY TO GO.
I agree.

[NotFadeAway]

Substance? Post-Crisis with its cliche, marvelized approaches? Whimpyman better than Donner's Superman? BWAHAHA http://aggrosiv.ag.funpic.de/home/sb/images/smiley/rofl.gif


Do you ever wonder why Marvel kicks DC's ass in the general publics eyes....

Because there material is character driven and storyline based, something pre-crisis DC was not!

[NotFadeAway]

It is a dark day at the hype that these words are spoken. :dry:
(even though I agree with a couple of points you made.)

Thats why Donner/Singer fanboys hate me....I mactually make points for my arguement!

[dpm07]

I want to see a Superman film done in the approach that the Timmverse took with STAS and JL/JLU.

They brought a level of richness to the characters, and stayed away from the Donnerverse element. That is why the Timmverse was so successful. If that approach could be brought to a Superman film, it could be a recipe for sucess at the box office.

[NotFadeAway]

I want to see a Superman film done in the approach that the Timmverse took with STAS and JL/JLU.

They brought a level of richness to the characters, and stayed away from the Donnerverse element. That is why the Timmverse was so successful. If that approach could be brought to a Superman film, it could be a recipe for sucess at the box office.


We have always agreed on this my friend!

[Dr. Fate]

I want to see a Superman film done in the approach that the Timmverse took with STAS and JL/JLU.

They brought a level of richness to the characters, and stayed away from the Donnerverse element. That is why the Timmverse was so successful. If that approach could be brought to a Superman film, it could be a recipe for sucess at the box office.
Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Nightwing1977]

I bet if Singer didn't do SR or didn't use Donner's homage, some of you guys wouldn't be sick of the Donnerverse. ;)

[Porygon]

Yea, I guess some folks just don't like substance when it comes to characters.

To hell with Donner, to hell with Fleischer, and to hell with there boring, redundant, uninspired, character drivenless storytelling approach!Have you even READ a pre-crisis comic, or have you just been spoon-fed with what others have told you?

I suppose these Superman stories are completely irrelevant:

- Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?
- For The Man Who Has Everything
- Kingdom Come (technically Pre-Crisis)
-Superman: Red Son (VERY Pre-Crisis influenced)

Not to mention how successful Grant Morrison's All Star Superman has been.

People assume Pre-Crisis was silly because it was during a time period where all comics were silly, and yes that includes Marvel Comics as well. But the fact is there is nothing about Pre-Crisis that forbids any characterisation from taking place. It all depends on the writing, not on whether Superman's parents are alive or not.

[teseract]

Donner`s Lex Luthor plain SUCKS!! Post-crisis Lex IS THE WAY TO GO.
Marvel called, they want the Kingpin back.

[teseract]

I want to see a Superman film done in the approach that the Timmverse took with STAS and JL/JLU.

They brought a level of richness to the characters, and stayed away from the Donnerverse element. That is why the Timmverse was so successful. If that approach could be brought to a Superman film, it could be a recipe for sucess at the box office.

Richness? A Superman that was an inefficient, naive idiot with no charisma whatsoever? That's what counts as richness nowadays?

Fleischer's Superman had more charisma in a single animated cell than Timm's Post Crisis inspired Whimpyman in the whole series.

[teseract]

- For The Man Who Has Everything
The single best Superman story ever told. Nothing Post-Crisis comes even close.

[Jochimus]

Marvel called, they want the Kingpin back.

LMAO. :woot: Personally, I'm ready for either Scientist Luthor or Politician Luthor myself; it'd be a nice break from either the land junkie or the scheming billionaire.

[NotFadeAway]

Richness? A Superman that was an inefficient, naive idiot with no charisma whatsoever? That's what counts as richness nowadays?

Fleischer's Superman had more charisma in a single animated cell than Timm's Post Crisis inspired Whimpyman in the whole series.

Well, your wrong, huh. You obviously never even watched the Animated Series, did you? Timm's Superman was, all fanboyism aside, the best take on the character that has ever been told and probably the key to Superman regaining his prowess with the masses from Spider-Man. Timm's Superman had alot of charisma, human charisma and a human feel to him, because he was a man with the powers of a God. Your pre-crisis Superman is nothing more than an Alien Savior.

Timm's Superman had actual depth, actual character to him. Fleischer's Superman was a one-note, one pose character. You could call him "Boringman".

With that being said, I did get a chuckle at your Marvel/Kingpin comment, although if you actually like real estate Lex than your less intelligent than I'm giving you credit for and you should be discarded as of now. Any one who likes real estate Lex should be discarded as of now, actually.

[NotFadeAway]

Have you even READ a pre-crisis comic, or have you just been spoon-fed with what others have told you?

I suppose these Superman stories are completely irrelevant:

- Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?
- For The Man Who Has Everything
- Kingdom Come (technically Pre-Crisis)
-Superman: Red Son (VERY Pre-Crisis influenced)

Not to mention how successful Grant Morrison's All Star Superman has been.

People assume Pre-Crisis was silly because it was during a time period where all comics were silly, and yes that includes Marvel Comics as well. But the fact is there is nothing about Pre-Crisis that forbids any characterisation from taking place. It all depends on the writing, not on whether Superman's parents are alive or not.

I do really enjoy Whatever Happened To the Man of Tomorrow, it's one of my favorites, and I liked For The Man Who Has Everything, although I saw the JLU episode before I went and found the comic itself. And I'll give Kingdom Come it's deserved due. But I did not like Red Son at all, and I find that outside of these one off stories, that pre-crisis has nothing of any depth to offer.

[NotFadeAway]

LMAO. :woot: Personally, I'm ready for either Scientist Luthor or Politician Luthor myself; it'd be a nice break from either the land junkie or the scheming billionaire.

I WANT politician Luthor, that fits perfectly with today's social climate. But I want him to have already established LexCorp prior to engaging in politics.

Real Estate Luthor sucks, and mad scientist Luthor is just too 50's!

[Dr. Fate]

The single best Superman story ever told. Nothing Post-Crisis comes even close.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

[NotFadeAway]

teseract knows nothing.....

[Nightwing1977]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

Not really. It his opinion, isn't it? No one is right or wrong when it come to their opinion. ;)

[NotFadeAway]

Not really. It his opinion, isn't it? No one is right or wrong when it come to their opinion. ;)

Teseract is:cwink:

[Showtime]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/IronGiant29/VoteBellaEnvironment.jpg

When: Tuesday
Where: Hype Community

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Added a poll. Let's see how it pans out.

[NotFadeAway]

I would love a movieverse where Superman was more vulnerable and where inspirations were drawn more from SM:TAS and Byrne's run than from the Silver Age, but it would seem DC is more interested in making confusing TV adaptions and rehashes of the Donnerverse. So...

EDIT: Wow, that's one freaky avatar to see as I'm posting Showtime.

Right on bro.....no more love letters to the Silver Age!

[EagleVision]

The Donner Superman all made us believe that a man could fly and showed the best casting to date and maybe that we ever will see from a Superman in that of Christopher Reeve. So am I sick of it? Hell no.

But that doesn't mean we don't need a change for today. Singer payed homage to the Superman we all grew up knowing from Reeve. But that clearly was a problem. It needs a complete revamping just as most thought it should have received. Like Batman Begins we have to reintroduce the origins to a new generation and not just assume everyone knows it. And nobody would be tired of it. Look at Smallville. #1 show on the CW even if it is a different interpretation. And kids are added to this earth everyday. And not every 12 year old knows the story.

Hopefully Singer will leave and whoever does it next WILL DO IT RIGHT. And as for Routh, he messed me up but it was due to Singer's direction so I don't know if he can look and play the Superman we need, but we'll see. A trade up may be in order.

[Lobo]

Futre sequels no, but I'm not sick of the Donnerverse.

[Nightwing1977]

Teseract is:cwink:

Nah. Your isn't either if you think I'm taking sides. :D :D

[NotFadeAway]

Nah. Your isn't either if you think I'm taking sides. :D :D

:cwink:

[Angeloz]

I just want to say I'm not voting in the poll because I just want to say that I love the Donner film(s). But I also love other versions of the character. So I don't limit myself to one version of him. I do have preferences but I can be open to other takes at the same time. Although there are other versions I don't like so much.

Angeloz

[El Payaso]

I am thankful for the Donnner-verse on a daily basis.

[NotFadeAway]

I am thankful for the Donnner-verse on a daily basis.

I'm sure you are, just as your obviously thankful for Adam West's Batman series on a daily basis. Let me guess, your one of those three votes to continue the Donnerverse and keep Superman in a monotonus purgatory? Thanks for your opinion buddy:whatever:

[Spade]

You can appreciate the "Donnerverse" without wanting to see it continue.

[NotFadeAway]

You can appreciate the "Donnerverse" without wanting to see it continue.


I'll truly appreciate the Donnerverse when an excellent, new version is created. Then I'll get nostalgic. And no, Lois&Clark doesn't count and Smallville borrows from the Donnerverse and the Abrams script, therefor not knowing what the hell it wants to be.

I liked Lois&Clark, by the way......Dean Cain's Clark Kent was the best!

[Angeloz]

What about the animated series? Doesn't count 'cos it isn't live action?

Angeloz

[NotFadeAway]

What about the animated series? Doesn't count 'cos it isn't live action?

Angeloz

I wish it was live action.....it should be adapted for live action!

I'm talking feature film franchise. I threw in the Smallville comment because it's relevant to today. In terms of overall Superman interpretions, films, tv shows, etc.....The Animated Series is the best! Imagine Christopher Reeve getting to stretch his acting muscles and play the Animated Series Superman in live action. It gives me goose bumps.

[El Payaso]

I'm sure you are, just as your obviously thankful for Adam West's Batman series on a daily basis. Let me guess, your one of those three votes to continue the Donnerverse and keep Superman in a monotonus purgatory? Thanks for your opinion buddy:whatever:

Your tantrum is amusing to El Payaso :)


EDIT:
Long live Donnerverse.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Here's my take:

The best characters, and the actors who portrayed them:

Superman/Kal-El - Christopher Reeve

Metropolis Clark Kent - Dean Cain

Smallville Clark Kent - Tom Welling

Haven't seen enough of Routh to make a clear decision on his Superman prowess, but the sequel should be interesting, indeed.

[NotFadeAway]

Your tantrum is amusing to El Payaso :)


EDIT:
Long live Donnerverse.

And your amusing to venom420

[NotFadeAway]

Here's my take:

The best characters, and the actors who portrayed them:

Superman/Kal-El - Christopher Reeve

Metropolis Clark Kent - Dean Cain

Smallville Clark Kent - Tom Welling

Haven't seen enough of Routh to make a clear decision on his Superman prowess, but the sequel should be interesting, indeed.

If you could somehow combine Reeve's Superman and Cain's Clark Kent, you would have solid gold. I love Cain's Clark Kent, it really made me almost resent Reeve's bumbling Clark for not being a real person!

[El Payaso]

And your amusing to venom420

I doubt. I see tantrums but not smiles in your posts. ;)

But your lack of grammar is amusing to El Payaso. :) "You are" anyone?

[NotFadeAway]

I doubt. I see tantrums but not smiles in your posts. ;)

But your lack of grammar is amusing to El Payaso. :) "You are" anyone?

Grammer comments....they never go out of style:dry:

[Showtime]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/IronGiant29/VoteSuperman.jpg

Where? Hype Community.
When? Tomorrow.

[Dr. Fate]

If you could somehow combine Reeve's Superman and Cain's Clark Kent, you would have solid gold. I love Cain's Clark Kent, it really made me almost resent Reeve's bumbling Clark for not being a real person!
You can say that again venom.

[NotFadeAway]

You can say that again venom.

I think I will....:cwink:

If you could somehow combine Reeve's Superman and Cain's Clark Kent, you would have solid gold. I love Cain's Clark Kent, it really made me almost resent Reeve's bumbling Clark for not being a real person!

[hammy]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/IronGiant29/VoteSuperman.jpg

Where? Hype Community.
When? Tomorrow.

I'll tell you what I'm sick of .. this crap. ^^^ :whatever:

[Showtime]

I'll tell you what I'm sick of .. this crap. ^^^ :whatever:

It's for Hype Survivor, we have to campaign to win the challenge. :yay:

[Draedan]

I'd love to see a lot of elements from TAS in a movie. The show is very cinematic and a lot of is self-parody, which I think Superman needs.

[El Payaso]

self-parody, which I think Superman needs.

:dry:

[Angeloz]

Did a moderator edit some posts? If so which moderator? Just curious.

Angeloz

[Showtime]

Did a moderator edit some posts? If so which moderator? Just curious.

Angeloz

Did you vote yet?

If not, Vote Bella in Hype Community. :yay:

[Angeloz]

I avoid so called reality shows on television. They just aren't my cup of tea.

Angeloz

[Superman-Prime]

I find it hilarious that there are only 4 people who got sick of the "Donnerverse". That is damn funny.

Personally, I loved "Donnerverse", after all I don't mind that Superman Returns takes place after Superman The Movie and Superman II. Guess what? I loved Superman Returns because the movie was honor to Christopher Reeve and Richard Donner and HOMAGE and of course, old school. Loved this.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^It's also in danger of not being made because of that choice. Good for you and anybody else who liked it though, maybe you will get another homage, to the second movie this time, if an SR 2 is made.

[El Payaso]

^It's also in danger of not being made because of that choice.

Hehe. Kudos to that attempt of transforming the executives' money-making demands for SR into a 'Donnerverse was a wrong choice' objective proof.

[NotFadeAway]

I find it hilarious that there are only 4 people who got sick of the "Donnerverse". That is damn funny.

Personally, I loved "Donnerverse", after all I don't mind that Superman Returns takes place after Superman The Movie and Superman II. Guess what? I loved Superman Returns because the movie was honor to Christopher Reeve and Richard Donner and HOMAGE and of course, old school. Loved this.

Acutally thats 18 people who don't want the Donnerverse to come back, so thats 18 people who are sick of the Donnerverse. You read it wrong!

Haha Singer sucks!

[Dr. Fate]

I avoid so called reality shows on television. They just aren't my cup of tea.

Angeloz
Yeah, I don't watch reality shows either. To put it bluntly: they suck.

[Showtime]

I love the Donnerverse, this is how me and Superman met, and I was happy when I heard it was a jumping off point for Returns. I liked Returns, although I see it's flaws, I am not blind.

That being said, enough of the Donnerverse. No more Jorel's floating head in a crystal, please.

[Porygon]

Where is the "I don't care so long as its a good movie" option?

[Superman-Prime]

Acutally thats 18 people who don't want the Donnerverse to come back, so thats 18 people who are sick of the Donnerverse. You read it wrong!

Haha Singer sucks!

Did I say Singer rocks?

Frickin' immature.

[El Payaso]

Acutally thats 18 people who don't want the Donnerverse to come back, so thats 18 people who are sick of the Donnerverse. You read it wrong!

Haha Singer sucks!

Actually your own question is
Anyone else sick of the "Donnerverse" itself?

and 18 people said NO.


Hahaha you suck at making/reading your own polls. :joker:

[NotFadeAway]

Actually your own question is
Anyone else sick of the "Donnerverse" itself?

and 18 people said NO.


Hahaha you suck at making/reading your own polls. :joker:

Actually, when I created this thread I didn't place the poll here. M.E.H.Z.E.B. did, I believe. And his poll question was "Should future sequels be based on, or tied to Donner's Superman universe"? 18 people said no, it should not. This thread didn't originally ask that question. It does now, some time later. Again, 18 said no, it shouldn't be tied to the Donnerverse

Hahaha at you for sucking at attempting to put me in my place, and at telling the difference between a thread title and a poll question. Nice try though, maybe next time!

[NotFadeAway]

Did I say Singer rocks?

Frickin' immature.

LOL

[El Payaso]

Lol for pitiful self-justification :joker:

[NotFadeAway]

Lol for pitiful self-justification :joker:


Make that 20 people who don't want Donner's universe carried on:yay:

[hammy]

There was a lot that was good about Donner's vision, but I don't think it's necessary to tie every incarnation of Superman, to Donner's. That said, I really liked the idea of an homage to Donner in Returns. :up: It didn't have to be huge, but some similarities for the sake of consistency and for the fans of the older movies .. the occasional wink and a nod that would tie the movies (loosely) together and give some cohesiveness to the continuity and leave you with a warm happy feeling :yay: .. but Singer did such a sucky job of his "homage" :whatever: that the whole Donner connection became kind of a moot point and a lame duck. He probably would have been better off doing his own thing completely.

[That'ssuper!]

The major things that could stay for Superman sequels would be:

1. Christopher Reeve style Superman
2. The John Williams Score

It's pretty sad how short that list it.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Actually, when I created this thread I didn't place the poll here. M.E.H.Z.E.B. did, I believe. And his poll question was "Should future sequels be based on, or tied to Donner's Superman universe"? 18 people said no, it should not. This thread didn't originally ask that question. It does now, some time later. Again, 18 said no, it shouldn't be tied to the Donnerverse

Got to agree.

[El Payaso]

Make that 20 people who don't want Donner's universe carried on:yay:

A whole crowd I see. :o

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

The major things that could stay for Superman sequels would be:

1. Christopher Reeve style Superman
2. The John Williams Score

It's pretty sad how short that list it.

That's true. I'd like to see the Superman and Lois Lane scenes filmed with that sense of sweetness that has been lost since the first Superman movie (the interview on Lois' roof), and the first season of Lois & Clark.

Reeve's Superman was spot on, and Williams' score a classic. So, I wouldn't mind having them referred to, or even be used as inspiration for future movies, but that's about it.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

A whole crowd I see. :o

I think it's time you and venny settled your issues. Via PM if possible.

Thanks. :hyper:

[El Payaso]

Agreed, as long as I can come to a thread and post an opinion like:
I am thankful for the Donnner-verse on a daily basis.

and not getting this as a reply:
I'm sure you are, just as your obviously thankful for Adam West's Batman series on a daily basis. Let me guess, your one of those three votes to continue the Donnerverse and keep Superman in a monotonus purgatory? Thanks for your opinion buddy

Uncalled.

[dpm07]

Hehe. Kudos to that attempt of transforming the executives' money-making demands for SR into a 'Donnerverse was a wrong choice' objective proof.

The Donnerverse was the wrong choice to use for a Superman film in today's world. It had it's place in the past, and that is where it belonged.

[Arkady Rossovich]

No.The donnerverse is classic,and i'm sad that Singer would tie Superman Returns to it.Like to try and latch onto it's epic status,this is a reason why SR did bad.

[bgshw44]

The major things that could stay for Superman sequels would be:

1. Christopher Reeve style Superman
2. The John Williams Score

It's pretty sad how short that list it.

i like having special opening title sequences and the design of krypton/fotress and pa kent is dead

[Porygon]

I really like the whole crystal aspect of the Donner movies. Its a unique representation of alien technology.

[NotFadeAway]

A whole crowd I see. :o

The Truth hurts.....26!

[NotFadeAway]

I think it's time you and venny settled your issues. Via PM if possible.

Thanks. :hyper:

I didn't see your post before I responded to to EL's last post. I'm sorry. I'm all for ending the arguement between the two of us. The smugness of Donner/Singer fans just rubs me the wrong way, and the fact that folks who are against Returns and against using the Donnerverse are consistently told to stay out of or chased out of thread proclaiming how brilliant Singer/Donner is, but we anti-Donnerverse member create threads it is bombarded with the smugness of pro-members! And if you notice, even the anti-Singer/Donnerverse members will STILL give the original film and the 2nd film it's props while stating it's flaws. But Donnerverse/Singer fans act like it was perfect, like it was the end all be all when nothing is further from the truth, like there sh^t don't stink. There not even open to conversation, which results in members like me growing tired of them and mouthing off at any chance we get. Again, I'll knock it off and I'm sorry about the comment above this one!

That is all!

[NotFadeAway]

The major things that could stay for Superman sequels would be:

1. Christopher Reeve style Superman
2. The John Williams Score

It's pretty sad how short that list it.


What do you mean?

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Agreed, as long as I can come to a thread and post an opinion like:


and not getting this as a reply:


Uncalled.

Understood and acknowledged

[Angeloz]

What do you mean?

He wears undies on the outside? ;) :D

NB - I could of been mean but am against that sort of thing (I like Chris as Supes I hope you don't hold that against me).

Angeloz

[NotFadeAway]

He wears undies on the outside? ;) :D

NB - I could of been mean but am against that sort of thing (I like Chris as Supes I hope you don't hold that against me).

Angeloz

Actually, I LOVE Chris as Supes. He made Donner's film work. He was amazing. Yes, the film ahd the worst version of Lex ever and the worst actress ever for Lois Lane, put Chris stood above those faults. The biggest injustice ever is that he never got to play post-crisis Superman. If Chris had played Dean Cains role, I'm willing to garuntee everyone on this board would be gushing about post-crisis Clark as the real person/Superman as the disguise!

That is why I want so badly for a wonderful actor to play post0crisis Superman, it's never happened, and although Cain is my favorite Clark Kent, he is not a great actor. A great actor needs to be cast in that role for it too work, which is why I look for acting ability first. And I look for non-verbal acting ability because for post-crisis Superman to work you have to feel and see that person as a hero.

Right now it goes like this. Reeve is my favorite Superman, Cain is my favorite Clark. But, the Donner film itself, on a storyline and character driven basis, can be topped rather easily.

[Superman-Prime]

LOL

I'm not joking around, you punk. Grow up.

[Angeloz]

Actually, I LOVE Chris as Supes. He made Donner's film work. He was amazing. Yes, the film ahd the worst version of Lex ever and the worst actress ever for Lois Lane, put Chris stood above those faults. The biggest injustice ever is that he never got to play post-crisis Superman. If Chris had played Dean Cains role, I'm willing to garuntee everyone on this board would be gushing about post-crisis Clark as the real person/Superman as the disguise!

That is why I want so badly for a wonderful actor to play post0crisis Superman, it's never happened, and although Cain is my favorite Clark Kent, he is not a great actor. A great actor needs to be cast in that role for it too work, which is why I look for acting ability first. And I look for non-verbal acting ability because for post-crisis Superman to work you have to feel and see that person as a hero.

Right now it goes like this. Reeve is my favorite Superman, Cain is my favorite Clark. But, the Donner film itself, on a storyline and character driven basis, can be topped rather easily.

I'm glad you like Chris. I can like many versions of the character. I recently watched the first and some of the second season of "Lois & Clark" (I hope to watch all the episodes) and I now remember why I liked the show. Actually I can like many versions of the character. I'll admit I'm more of a Post-Crisis (1986) fan of Clark to some extent. I also don't like over the top goofiness. But I can like a more quieter Clark (like Routh played). I also don't want him to be a sexless god. But mainly I like many versions including the fifties television and animated series. I can understand why Clark is more differentiated in the films rather than the series though and it is the old enemy of time. In the films they need shorthand to show how Superman and Clark are different. In the series that wouldn't really work as well. Because it would get tiring for him to be too clumsy or unsympathetic. Also there's the expense of special and visual effects. So more time would be spent as Clark and last minute saves or the like (except when animated where it wouldn't add or detract much in monetary terms theoretically). So there's different rules depending on what format is used.

Angeloz

[Slipping_Halo]

The Donner films were phenomenal. I love them. I can't watch them without choking up because they are seriously a huge part of my childhood. Christopher Reeve is without a doubt Superman for all time. Pre-crisis, post-crisis, whatever. That guy was SUPERMAN. Whomever portrays him will inevitably be compared to him. Donner is someone I respect so much because HE respected the source material moreso than I've seen anybody else really. He said "we're not screwing around with apple pie." I love him to death for that, and I think his films are and very well should be highly regarded as films in and of themselves as well as the quintessential Superhero films-the ones by which all others since have been blue-printed.

That said, I'm done with the homages and connections. The fact that Donner's films were incredible doesn't mean a new movie can't do better. For Christ's sakes, that thing was made in the late 70's! I friggin' HOPE we can do better after all this time! The unfortunate reality is, we still haven't. And that pisses me off immensely. Why should I be restricted to watching the old films because the new ones don't even compare? That's wrong to me. We should be getting the greatest Superman films of all time coming out right now with the money and technology we have, and what do we get? Singer's BS.

Bryan Singer's "homage" was more of a two-bit hacking of Donner's vision and style. He basically took the original film's plot and coated it with a different paint. He got a Reeve look-alike for the part and basically took ALL his friggin cues from the original-something that you'd think would be good, but in this case turned out to be ABSOLUTELY AWFUL.

Leave the Donner movies alone! Let them be what they are and stop trying to ride their coattails. It's ridiculous and so far it's only gone to discredit Superman in every way I could imagine. LEAVE IT ALONE.

The only things from Donner's universe and films that I'd keep are the score-which has become Superman's theme music, like it or not, that sound is synonymous with the character, and the OVERWHELMING RESPECT for the character. Learn from that and everything else will fall into place.

[NotFadeAway]

I'm not joking around, you punk. Grow up.

Hey there, watch the name calling. Shame on you!

Grow up:whatever:

[NotFadeAway]

I'm glad you like Chris. I can like many versions of the character. I recently watched the first and some of the second season of "Lois & Clark" (I hope to watch all the episodes) and I now remember why I liked the show. Actually I can like many versions of the character. I'll admit I'm more of a Post-Crisis (1986) fan of Clark to some extent. I also don't like over the top goofiness. But I can like a more quieter Clark (like Routh played). I also don't want him to be a sexless god. But mainly I like many versions including the fifties television and animated series. I can understand why Clark is more differentiated in the films rather than the series though and it is the old enemy of time. In the films they need shorthand to show how Superman and Clark are different. In the series that wouldn't really work as well. Because it would get tiring for him to be too clumsy or unsympathetic. Also there's the expense of special and visual effects. So more time would be spent as Clark and last minute saves or the like (except when animated where it wouldn't add or detract much in monetary terms theoretically). So there's different rules depending on what format is used.

Angeloz

I see what you mean. For post-crisis Clark to work in a movie, the writing would have to be almost perfect, I know that because of the reasons you mentioned. I also cannot stand doofus, clumsy Clark at all.

Lois&Clark seasons one and two were fairly decent. It went down hill after that.

Imagine Christopher Reeve opposite Michael Rosenbaum's Lex and Erica Durance's Lois. Those two are the best things about Smallville because they play the best live action versions of there character to date. Durance could be topped, but I love Rosey and would accept Welling in a movie just to get Rosenbaum to play Lex.

Though I would like to see Jaquin Phoenix or Jason Isaacs get a shot at playing corporate/politician Lex Luthor!

[El Payaso]

And to think I didn't even say I wanted the Donnerverse in future Superman movies...

[Superman-Prime]

Hey there, watch the name calling. Shame on you!

Grow up:whatever:

LOL

Now, are we even?

LOL!

[NotFadeAway]

LOL

Now, are we even?

LOL!

Yes!

[Lead Cenobite]

Using the Donner-verse doesn't mean that everything you all are clamoring for has to be excluded. Who says Lex can't eventually start Lexcorp, or clone Superman? Or that Brainiac can't come to Earth? If there's one futuristic planet out there there's probably another.

The fortress and style of Krypton holds back nothing. Krypton's gone and won't be much of an issue in sequels anyway, and it's not as if post-crisis elements can't be fitted into the Donner Krypton anyway, since it's not been elaborated on that much.

Also, Clark was changing through the course of the movies. By Superman III and IV, he wasn't nearly as nerdy and I think that Clark should still be somewhat of a disguise. Not so extreme, but it should be there because you all have to realize putting on glasses and doing NOTHING else isn't enough.

[Jochimus]

Using the Donner-verse doesn't mean that everything you all are clamoring for has to be excluded. Who says Lex can't eventually start Lexcorp, or clone Superman? Or that Brainiac can't come to Earth? If there's one futuristic planet out there there's probably another.

The fortress and style of Krypton holds back nothing. Krypton's gone and won't be much of an issue in sequels anyway, and it's not as if post-crisis elements can't be fitted into the Donner Krypton anyway, since it's not been elaborated on that much.

Also, Clark was changing through the course of the movies. By Superman III and IV, he wasn't nearly as nerdy and I think that Clark should still be somewhat of a disguise. Not so extreme, but it should be there because you all have to realize putting on glasses and doing NOTHING else isn't enough.

Good points.

With a decent script, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that Luthor would figure out by this point that his land fix is going to have to take a backseat to killing Superman. Plus there's no way to prove he was connected to New Krypton - Superman's credibility as a witness is already in question, and Lois could have been trespassing and could almost be considered guilty of child endangerment; the only evidence was in the video Lex's goons made, and they were all smashed flat. By the time Lex gets off the island, Kitty could be dead, and Lex has probably figured out that his taste in women and henchmen needs to be seriously upgraded *koff*Mercy*koff. And with no way to pin him to the endangerment of billions, he'd still have the Vanderworth fortune at his disposal.

As for other villains, also not a problem. If Luthor's still got a piece of that Kryptonite stiletto on him, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that it probably has some of Superman's blood on it *koff*Bizarro*koff*. Not to mention that the existence of New Krypton is a loose plot thread begging to be addressed in any possible sequel...Brainiac, Mongul/Warworld, you name it. That and the fact that Jor-El has always mentioned "the 28 known galaxies".

As for Clark's nerdiness...well...since Lois is with another man and his kid knows nothing about him since she never talked about Clark, this is the perfect excuse for Clark to start demonstrating character aspects beyond just simply bumping into things and being awkward. Personally, I'd like to see Clark do some actual, y'know, REPORTING.

Really, the only problem posed by SR toward any sequel story has nothing to do with what Donner, Mankiewicz, the Salkinds, etc. were responsible for back in 1978 - it's the kid. Was he a good idea? I can't say. Was the idea well-executed or thought out? Hell no. Can it be resolved without taking the painfully predictable and even more insulting routes of killing him off, turning him into a villain, or revealing SR to be a dream? With a little creativity, yes.

[Superman-Prime]

Yes!

Sweet. Now, we are even. :woot:

[SuperDaniel]

The only 2 things they can keep from the Donner movies are the respect to Superman and his history and the score. THe rest can go, especially that version of Luthor wich is the WORST ever.

[Mr. Socko]

Luthor and the score are the only things I love about the Donnerverse. Donner-Lex has the best personality, if he ran LexCorp he'd be perfect. The rest is outdated and can go. I'm tired of 75% of the stuff in the Donnerverse.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

In my opinion, Donner's Lex was and still remains the worst interpretation of the character to date. Lex in the Donnerverse was a campy comic relief of a character, and lacked the weight and menace to seriously warrant any screen time. Sad, but true.

[Draedan]

Most wold agree with you Mehzeb. Most sane people, that is.

[El Payaso]

Most wold agree with you Mehzeb. Most sane people, that is.

Yep. I'm amongst the minority of sane people that would disagree.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Yep. I'm amongst the minority of sane people that would disagree.

Fair enough. :up:

[NotFadeAway]

In my opinion, Donner's Lex was and still remains the worst interpretation of the character to date. Lex in the Donnerverse was a campy comic relief of a character, and lacked the weight and menace to seriously warrant any screen time. Sad, but true.

Right on...

I honestly can't understand why anyone would like Donner's Lex. And thats not an insult toward anyone, I really can't understand why some like Donner's Lex. It's horrible, it's campy, it's not menacing, etc etc. Just as I can't understand why people power walk:cwink:

[Mr. Socko]

In my opinion, Donner's Lex was and still remains the worst interpretation of the character to date. Lex in the Donnerverse was a campy comic relief of a character, and lacked the weight and menace to seriously warrant any screen time. Sad, but true.

I liked the comedic relief, campy Lex who wears wigs. I just thought he wasn't threatening enough. But I've always said I thought Spacey was the best actor in SR and had the best lines as well. He is one of things I liked best about SR even though I thought it was mediocre overall. I think the Hackman and Spacey Lex is far better than the one from Smallville and Lois & Clark.

Most wold agree with you Mehzeb. Most sane people, that is.

Look no further than my user title.:woot:

[Porygon]

Hackman's Luthor was not "campy" or "comic relief" and anyone who watches the film properly can see that.

[Lead Cenobite]

What I like about Hackman's Lex is his wit and charisma. The land schemes can go and so can the useless sidekicks, but I liked Hackman's Lex's personality.

[Dr. Fate]

What I like about Hackman's Lex is his wit and charisma. The land schemes can go and so can the useless sidekicks, but I liked Hackman's Lex's personality.
Wit and charisma? What wit? What charisma?

[NotFadeAway]

I liked the comedic relief, campy Lex who wears wigs. I just thought he wasn't threatening enough. But I've always said I thought Spacey was the best actor in SR and had the best lines as well. He is one of things I liked best about SR even though I thought it was mediocre overall. I think the Hackman and Spacey Lex is far better than the one from Smallville and Lois & Clark.



Look no further than my user title.:woot:


I'm trying real hard not to talk smack.....

[NotFadeAway]

Hackman's Luthor was not "campy" or "comic relief" and anyone who watches the film properly can see that.

Are your serious?

[Mr. Socko]

I'm trying real hard not to talk smack.....


Excuse me...what?

[matthooper]

At least the original Donner Lex was original. It had it's faults but at least Donner tried something new.

The Singer Lex is a loose interpretation on a flawed character. Not only did Singer take out the only decent things about the Donner Lex, but he added nothing new except him screaming a few times.

[X-Maniac]

The original Donnerverse was fine for its time and stands up pretty well. I like the logic of how Krypton became a planet of ice and crystal, making Superman's journey to Earth's North Pole and creation of a FOS seem more logical. On the downside, Krypton was very barren and I also would have liked to have seen a more exotic and fantastical planet that we could have seen in flashbacks.

It's now time to move on from the Donnerverse, but not necessarily to contradict it.

[Lead Cenobite]

Wit and charisma? What wit? What charisma?

It's an opinion. Wit and charisma's in the eye of the beholder I guess.

[Jochimus]

Actually, once he sprang the Kryptonite on Superman, Hackman's Luthor I found to be pretty cool - as if the whole 'campy wit'' thing was just a facade masking the real sicko underneath; I also like the deleted scene where he tries to feed Teschmacher to his 'babies' for selling him out. Plus, for most of Superman II he DOES seem to be mainly focused on getting Superman and/or Team Zod under this thumb.

[Lead Cenobite]

Well, that too, but whenever Lex isn't making a fool of himself, I think he's pretty cool. He seems more laid back and jokey than the usual Lexcorp Lex, and I don't think that's a problem at all as long as he backs it all up with his actions. The cold intellectual quoting history books Lex just doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

[Porygon]

Are your serious?Yes I am.

Watch the film. Lex Luthor did not do anything campy. Otis and Miss Teschmacher did, but Hackman played the straight man of the trio. He was there to make the other two seem more stupid by comparison, because he wasn't silly or stupid at all. The wig was silly, but that was because Gene Hackman didn't want to be bald. The truth is, he was nowhere near the level of silliness that some people here would have you believe. He almost killed Superman within 10 minutes of meeting him, planned to destroy a city full of people simply as a distraction and didn't care that his assistant's mother was one of those people. Just because he made jokes, doesn't make him campy.

[SuperDaniel]

^ You gotta be kidding,,,Luthor made a joke every two seconds he was on screen...

"Yes, i was just talkin about you...desipite ur catlike reflexes"

"Otis, Do you know why the number 200 mean to us both? Its ur weigbt and me IQ..."

"Otis, do u wanna see a very long arm?"

"Give the robe after i leave the pool"

"I am the greatest criminal mind of all time"

ETC ETC

HACKMAN`S LUTHOR WAS A JOKE IN THE MOVIE. PERIOD. SO WAS SPACEY.

I never want to see that kind of Luthor again.

[Super Kal]

neither do I

[Porygon]

^ You gotta be kidding,,,Luthor made a joke every two seconds he was on screen...

"Yes, i was just talkin about you...desipite ur catlike reflexes"

"Otis, Do you know why the number 200 mean to us both? Its ur weigbt and me IQ..."

"Otis, do u wanna see a very long arm?"

"Give the robe after i leave the pool"

"I am the greatest criminal mind of all time"

ETC ETC

HACKMAN`S LUTHOR WAS A JOKE IN THE MOVIE. PERIOD. SO WAS SPACEY.

I never want to see that kind of Luthor again.You don't know what campy means, obviously.

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

You don't know what campy means, obviously.

Please, explain what "campy" means. Thanks. :oldrazz:

[teseract]

Please, explain what "campy" means. Thanks. :oldrazz:
I can explain what camp DOES NOT means, namely having a sarcastic and dry humor and that's what Spacey's and Hackman's Lex had. His "jokes" were nothing more that sarcastic stabs at the people surrounding him. They showed the utter lack of respect he had of people whom he conisders beneath himself, intellectualy.

[teseract]

Well, your wrong, huh. You obviously never even watched the Animated Series, did you? Timm's Superman was, all fanboyism aside, the best take on the character that has ever been told and probably the key to Superman regaining his prowess with the masses from Spider-Man. Timm's Superman had alot of charisma, human charisma and a human feel to him, because he was a man with the powers of a God. Your pre-crisis Superman is nothing more than an Alien Savior.

Oh I have watched it and I regret the day! The series was terrible, its only saving grace was, that it turned some of Superman's weaker villains interesting, although only form Post Crsis persepctive. Pre Crisis Parasite for example had far more depth than the Post Crisis one. The problem with the series is, it turned Superman himself into a bland, boring hunk of superficial nothingness. His Clark felt uninspired, His Superman more so. Where was the Grace of Reeve? Where was that Superman that when he descended gave off an aura of security and Power? With Reeve's Superman you always got the feeling "Things are going to be good" and you still where on the edge when he fought Zod or during the Rocket chase. Heck, Fleischer's Superman had confidence in abundance. Whenever the uttered "This is a job for Superman" you could feel the confidence and strength. Timms Superman lacked that!


He came off as if he was going to cry any minute when he got hit by something. He was Post-Crisis “Whinerman” incarnate. He was the kind of Superman who cries every five minutes, who needs psychotherapy, who gets mopy and emo every time something doesn't go like he intended. God I HATE this kind of Superman so much! We don't need the Spider-manisation of Superman it completely goes against the Character. What we need is the Superman of Reeve. We need SUPERMAN not superMAN or SUPERman. We don't need the Clark is the real him and Superman is the disguise, we also don't need Superman is the real him and Clark the disguise. What we need is a much more nuanced approach. We need Clark is a disguise, Superman is a disguise and between them lies the real him, call that real him Kal-El for a lack of a better name. Just don't give me boring bipolar approaches that don't do the character's complexity justice. Timm's Superman series mainly had those bipolar approaches. They were juvenile, by the numbers characterization you could find in every cheap melodrama. There was no real character complexity. The main characters were too static, while the villains got a little time to shine but even they were for the most part just superficially explored. There was so much wasted potential to do really good characterization. It's a shame, considering what Timm did with Batman, that's probably the reason why Superman TAS went the way of the Dodo so fast, compared to Batman TAS.


Timm's Superman had actual depth, actual character to him. Fleischer's Superman was a one-note, one pose character. You could call him "Boringman".Considering that Fleischer's Superman is still the best animated series in quality, your one pose comment doesn't quite fit. Fleischer's animation runs laps around the Timmverse crap. In quality and fun factor. Besides, if you like a human Superman that much you should have loved Fleischers approach. His Superman came off as very much human, but not as whiny and emo like Post-Crisis Superman or hopelessly overstrained and ineffective as Timms.


With that being said, I did get a chuckle at your Marvel/Kingpin comment, although if you actually like real estate Lex than your less intelligent than I'm giving you credit for and you should be discarded as of now. Any one who likes real estate Lex should be discarded as of now, actually.Oh I like my Lex, just as Superman, multi layered. I like him to be a scientific genius. I like him to be vain and full of himself (and yes, wearing a wig would suit Lex's character). I like him to be charismatic, witty, full of dry sarcastic humor. I like him to be scary and threatening. I like him to have real estate schemes, scientific plots and political ambitions, in short I like a ROUND Character. I don't like characters becoming empty, symbolic shells like post crisis Luthor, who became an Donald Trump wannabee with a sprinkle of the Kingpin mixed in, to symbolize the evil, corrupted corporations and their power (yawn, how 80's). I like a Parasite who was incredible cruel, even murderous yet had a wife and children, whom he cared for deeply and for whom he would have done anything. I don't like the Post-Crisis one note sucker who's too dumb to articulate himself properly or think of a half decent plan even. In short, what I want is for Superman to grow up and become more than juvenile, half-assed kiddie fodder! The potential is there it just needs to be explored and sadly Post Crisis went further away from it than Bronze Age Superman. That Era delivered the best Superman stories.

As for the Poll, just shows what I always knew, most people don't have taste or know what good fiction is. *shrugs* At least I won't have to waste my money on Post Crisis Dreck, I got the Reeves Movies, the Fleischer Cartoon, and Bronze Age comics. as well as good Elseworld comics. I haven't bought a Post-Crisis comic the last 18 years and I don't plan to do it now. The same with a Superman movie based on that dreckor shows like Smallville, Superman TAS and Lois and Clark. I was shocked enough to discover that Singer didn't use Donner's Superman but Post Crisis Emoman instead. *shudders*

[El Payaso]

A campy Lex would be that bald muscular Lex in his purple and green tights with the Robin-like neck.

[NotFadeAway]

Oh I have watched it and I regret the day! The series was terrible, its only saving grace was, that it turned some of Superman's weaker villains interesting, although only form Post Crsis persepctive. Pre Crisis Parasite for example had far more depth than the Post Crisis one. The problem with the series is, it turned Superman himself into a bland, boring hunk of superficial nothingness. His Clark felt uninspired, His Superman more so. Where was the Grace of Reeve? Where was that Superman that when he descended gave off an aura of security and Power? With Reeve's Superman you always got the feeling "Things are going to be good" and you still where on the edge when he fought Zod or during the Rocket chase. Heck, Fleischer's Superman had confidence in abundance. Whenever the uttered "This is a job for Superman" you could feel the confidence and strength. Timms Superman lacked that!


He came off as if he was going to cry any minute when he got hit by something. He was Post-Crisis “Whinerman” incarnate. He was the kind of Superman who cries every five minutes, who needs psychotherapy, who gets mopy and emo every time something doesn't go like he intended. God I HATE this kind of Superman so much! We don't need the Spider-manisation of Superman it completely goes against the Character. What we need is the Superman of Reeve. We need SUPERMAN not superMAN or SUPERman. We don't need the Clark is the real him and Superman is the disguise, we also don't need Superman is the real him and Clark the disguise. What we need is a much more nuanced approach. We need Clark is a disguise, Superman is a disguise and between them lies the real him, call that real him Kal-El for a lack of a better name. Just don't give me boring bipolar approaches that don't do the character's complexity justice. Timm's Superman series mainly had those bipolar approaches. They were juvenile, by the numbers characterization you could find in every cheap melodrama. There was no real character complexity. The main characters were too static, while the villains got a little time to shine but even they were for the most part just superficially explored. There was so much wasted potential to do really good characterization. It's a shame, considering what Timm did with Batman, that's probably the reason why Superman TAS went the way of the Dodo so fast, compared to Batman TAS.


Considering that Fleischer's Superman is still the best animated series in quality, your one pose comment doesn't quite fit. Fleischer's animation runs laps around the Timmverse crap. In quality and fun factor. Besides, if you like a human Superman that much you should have loved Fleischers approach. His Superman came off as very much human, but not as whiny and emo like Post-Crisis Superman or hopelessly overstrained and ineffective as Timms.


Oh I like my Lex, just as Superman, multi layered. I like him to be a scientific genius. I like him to be vain and full of himself (and yes, wearing a wig would suit Lex's character). I like him to be charismatic, witty, full of dry sarcastic humor. I like him to be scary and threatening. I like him to have real estate schemes, scientific plots and political ambitions, in short I like a ROUND Character. I don't like characters becoming empty, symbolic shells like post crisis Luthor, who became an Donald Trump wannabee with a sprinkle of the Kingpin mixed in, to symbolize the evil, corrupted corporations and their power (yawn, how 80's). I like a Parasite who was incredible cruel, even murderous yet had a wife and children, whom he cared for deeply and for whom he would have done anything. I don't like the Post-Crisis one note sucker who's too dumb to articulate himself properly or think of a half decent plan even. In short, what I want is for Superman to grow up and become more than juvenile, half-assed kiddie fodder! The potential is there it just needs to be explored and sadly Post Crisis went further away from it than Bronze Age Superman. That Era delivered the best Superman stories.

As for the Poll, just shows what I always knew, most people don't have taste or know what good fiction is. *shrugs* At least I won't have to waste my money on Post Crisis Dreck, I got the Reeves Movies, the Fleischer Cartoon, and Bronze Age comics. as well as good Elseworld comics. I haven't bought a Post-Crisis comic the last 18 years and I don't plan to do it now. The same with a Superman movie based on that dreckor shows like Smallville, Superman TAS and Lois and Clark. I was shocked enough to discover that Singer didn't use Donner's Superman but Post Crisis Emoman instead. *shudders*

All of your opinions are wrong. You are wrong. However, I don't feel like typing yet today so just know, once again, that your are wrong. Shame on you for sharing your wrong opinion.

So wait, you think Real Estate Lex with his backstabbing bimbo's, idiotic henchman, and comedic dialouge is a well rounded character? A wig, shows how much yoou want a movie to be taken seriously.

[El Payaso]

All of your opinions are wrong. You are wrong. However, I don't feel like typing yet today so just know, once again, that your are wrong. Shame on you for sharing your wrong opinion.

:D sigworthy!


That said, you didn't prove him wrong. :)

[Lead Cenobite]

Why is it people attack Hackman's Lex for being into real estate? You have to admit that if Lex's plan had worked out in Superman he would have been pretty damned rich and powerful. And that's one of the main goals of all versions of Lex, isn't it?

HACKMAN`S LUTHOR WAS A JOKE IN THE MOVIE. PERIOD. SO WAS SPACEY.

Oh, and making jokes doesn't make one a joke.

[C. Lee]

Why is it people attack Hackman's Lex for being into real estate? You have to admit that if Lex's plan had worked out in Superman he would have been pretty damned rich and powerful. And that's one of the main goals of all versions of Lex, isn't it?
Even if he had succeeded in causing half of the west coast to fall into the ocean...he wouldn't have gotten rich. Since Lois was there researching a story on the "mysterious someone" who was buying up land, it means that he wasn't be as inconspicuous as he should have been....so, it wouldn't have taken much for the authorities to connect the purchases with the sudden destruction of the land next to it. The government would have swarmed the area...Lex would get nothing but jail time (or be on the run from the law as usual).

[Lead Cenobite]

Well whether or not he would have been found out is beside the point. My point is that a lot of people underestimate Hackman's Lex and his plans, acting like he has silly ambitions compared to other versions of Lex.

[WalterKovacs]

Does anyone feel like summarizing JJ Abrahm's Story if it hasnt been done already?

[WalterKovacs]

You know, the best observation about superman was in Kill Bill volume 2, in which Bill says that Clark Kent is Superman's critique of the entire human race. It brings up a point, and a possibility for fresh superman territory.
Superman has always been done as very human, almost flawless. Hes essentially Peter parker, and then a perfect big blue boy scout. I think an interesting story is to explore the more alien side of him. THe idea that our world is very muchnew and different and strange to him. SUperman has always been a very Jesus Christ-esque figure; and in that sense Superman Returns was very much the normal 2 dimensional Passion of the CHrist, WHereas the story should be like the last temptation.
THere should be a question in Kal-El's head-do humans deserve this? What is it to be an earthling? What is it to be human? What is justice? Superman has always been somebody people can aspire to be,somebody should show superman defining and becoming what people should be. Somebody should make a superman movie that allows suoerman to do what the best superhero storys can do, which is to use a character like this to test and analyze humanity.

Well, and fight a few supervillains.
And by supervillain, I do not mean a kryptonite mountain.

[El Payaso]

Even if he had succeeded in causing half of the west coast to fall into the ocean...he wouldn't have gotten rich. Since Lois was there researching a story on the "mysterious someone" who was buying up land, it means that he wasn't be as inconspicuous as he should have been....so, it wouldn't have taken much for the authorities to connect the purchases with the sudden destruction of the land next to it. The government would have swarmed the area...Lex would get nothing but jail time (or be on the run from the law as usual).

But as Superman was supposed to be wearing his Kryptonite necklace forever, Lois and anyone else researching the story in the surroundings would have died.

[Jochimus]

Why is it people attack Hackman's Lex for being into real estate? You have to admit that if Lex's plan had worked out in Superman he would have been pretty damned rich and powerful. And that's one of the main goals of all versions of Lex, isn't it?

Y'know, Lex himself stated one of his big kicks in life was killing innocent people...of which he would have killed MILLIONS by nuking California into the sea. Plus he also killed the museum guards (or had them killed) in Addis Ababa to get the Kryptonite, not to mention shoving poor Harry onto the train tracks (as well as however many others he iced to end up being pursued by Harry and Armus to start with), so the man was already a murderer.

[C. Lee]

Well whether or not he would have been found out is beside the point. My point is that a lot of people underestimate Hackman's Lex and his plans, acting like he has silly ambitions compared to other versions of Lex.

I don't believe anyone is "underestimating" Hackman's Lex...if anything they are "overestimating" him.

1) He kills a policeman who is looking for him right outside the entrance to his hideaway. The only reason he wasn't caught was because the Metropolis police were incompetant.

2) He has Otis as a henchman.

3) He apparently doesn't think theat the government will move heaven and earth to find out who set off two nukes on or soil.

4) He thinks no one will connect the buying of land to the destruction of the land next to it.

[C. Lee]

But as Superman was supposed to be wearing his Kryptonite necklace forever, Lois and anyone else researching the story in the surroundings would have died.

People knew Lois was out there researching a story about some mysterious man buying up land....even if she died, people would comment about her doing that story as someone nuked California causing the worthless land to become suddenly fantasticly important.

[Jochimus]

1) He kills a policeman who is looking for him right outside the entrance to his hideaway. The only reason he wasn't caught was because the Metropolis police were incompetant.

There were no eyewitnesses to the killing, nor apparently sufficient remains left to suggest foul play (just a smashed hat), so even if they were competent enough to have bagged Otis and brought Luthor in, they wouldn't have hard evidence to make the charge stick. All they would have is Otis' testimony, and as you pointed out...

2) He has Otis as a henchman.His ineptitude notwithstanding, Otis did prove to be masterful in one moment: he was clumsy enough to provide a distraction for Luthor and Teschmacher to escape in SII. I prefer to think the reason Luthor tolerated Otis' idiocy was because of the latter's near-ideal disposability (which Luthor himself brought up when Otis brought his robe to him in the pool).

3) He apparently doesn't think theat the government will move heaven and earth to find out who set off two nukes on or soil.Or he doesn't care. Even if they could pin him to it, the man proved to be able to escape prison easily (or at least with a bit of effort and patience - obviously the mind of anyone who can fabricate a hologram projector in the walls of a prison can't be ENTIRELY addled with dreams of Costa Del Lex).

4) He thinks no one will connect the buying of land to the destruction of the land next to it.See above answer.

[Draedan]

Apparently, the mods are into modifying people's posts these days?

[Porygon]

Apparently, the mods are into modifying people's posts these days?:huh:

Explain.

[Super Kal]

calling others idiots just because they have a different opinion is not allowed on here, draedan... no matter if it comes from a hater or a supporter.

[emma_c22000]

I wasn't a huge fan of the "Donnerverse" to begin with as it had some elements that were too much of a departure from the comics but I found the original Superman to be hugely entertaining. My main problem with the "Donnerverse" is that Singer hasn't been able to let it go completely. I'd rather have seen a complete reeboot a la Batman Begins.

I've never been an advocate of loose sequels as they're neither here nor there but I think future sequels will have to be tied to the elements of the "Donnerverse" that made it into Superman Returns just to keep continuity intact.

[Porygon]

I always thought Superman Returns set up a departure from the Donnerverse... the crystals that run his fortress are gone, so no more floating Jor-El head. There is a kid now, which has already moved the character more forward than 70 years of comics.

I don't see any reason why the character of Superman, as presented in Superman Returns, has to stagnate.

[Draedan]

I always thought Superman Returns set up a departure from the Donnerverse... the crystals that run his fortress are gone, so no more floating Jor-El head. There is a kid now, which has already moved the character more forward than 70 years of comics.

I don't see any reason why the character of Superman, as presented in Superman Returns, has to stagnate.

Because everything about it is boring. Superman, Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, the kid, Ma Kent, the farm...everything is just borrrrrrrring.

[C. Lee]

Apparently, the mods are into modifying people's posts these days?
Apparently you don't know how to act civil....it all evens out.

[Porygon]

Because everything about it is boring. Superman, Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, the kid, Ma Kent, the farm...everything is just borrrrrrrring.What do you mean? Superman can't move away from the Donnerverse because the Donnerverse is boring? Wouldn't that be a better reason to move away from it?

[C. Lee]

There were no eyewitnesses to the killing, nor apparently sufficient remains left to suggest foul play (just a smashed hat), so even if they were competent enough to have bagged Otis and brought Luthor in, they wouldn't have hard evidence to make the charge stick. All they would have is Otis' testimony, and as you pointed out...
Most murders have no eyewitnesses.....and yet the perpetrators are found. They knew Otis went into the subway tunnel. They Knew that the officer was killed following him into the tunnel. A better search of the area should have been conducted.

His ineptitude notwithstanding, Otis did prove to be masterful in one moment: he was clumsy enough to provide a distraction for Luthor and Teschmacher to escape in SII. I prefer to think the reason Luthor tolerated Otis' idiocy was because of the latter's near-ideal disposability (which Luthor himself brought up when Otis brought his robe to him in the pool).When Otis's ineptitude on several occasions not only almost messed up Lex's plans but came close to causing them to be caught....then his usefulness as a distraction don't really seem that important. Otis risks being arrested to steal a cookie, he leads the police to their hideaways doorstep, he screws up programing one nuke(which almost leads to added death of millions but also causes a complete rearranging of Lex'x plans to reprogram the second nuke), his ineptitude ticks off Lex so much he loses his control and almost kills himself, Otis, and Miss teshmacher by fighting him in the moving van....is that really worth keping him around?

Or he doesn't care. Even if they could pin him to it, the man proved to be able to escape prison easily (or at least with a bit of effort and patience - obviously the mind of anyone who can fabricate a hologram projector in the walls of a prison can't be ENTIRELY addled with dreams of Costa Del Lex).Saying that Lex doesn't care if the cops connect him to the death of millions and the destruction of a large part of the earth......in no way makes me consider him intelligent or have a "good" plan....to me it just says egomaniacle sociopathic mass murderer. If he used the intelligence that was able to construct the holographic projector out of materials found in the prison to constructive use....he would be a multibillionaire in control of a large part of the Earth's economy (Bill Gates anyone?)....since he doesn't do this, but instead wants to nuke California so that it falls into the ocean and desert land he just bought will become beachfront property....just again says he is insane.

See above answer.
Same here.

[El Payaso]

People knew Lois was out there researching a story about some mysterious man buying up land....even if she died, people would comment about her doing that story as someone nuked California causing the worthless land to become suddenly fantasticly important.

That's a vague possibility, yes. But it wasn't THE big story that had the country paralised, keeping an eye on that or anything. No one even suspected what was going on since that misteriuous person buying that land was considered something stupid an unimportant.

Plus, the missile aimed to Hackensack would confuse Lex' true intentions. It could have been considered an accident after all. The new missiles failed.

Now if, and I mean IF someone would follow the story and connect the loose ends, Lex would be rich enough to make some people dissapear in time, which he did successfuly in his first scene in STM. I guess he would be even more protected once he's immensely rich living in Costa del Lex.

Still no big deal for Luthy.

[Lead Cenobite]

I don't believe anyone is "underestimating" Hackman's Lex...if anything they are "overestimating" him.

1) He kills a policeman who is looking for him right outside the entrance to his hideaway. The only reason he wasn't caught was because the Metropolis police were incompetant.

2) He has Otis as a henchman.

3) He apparently doesn't think theat the government will move heaven and earth to find out who set off two nukes on or soil.

4) He thinks no one will connect the buying of land to the destruction of the land next to it.

Who the hell is overestimating Hackman's Lex? All I ever see is people bashing him and drooling over L&C, TAS and Smallville's Lex.

[NotFadeAway]

Who the hell is overestimating Hackman's Lex? All I ever see is people bashing him and drooling over L&C, TAS and Smallville's Lex.

And rightfully so.....

[Super Kal]

personally, I never found Hackman's Luthor to be campy... just overly comedic.

[Draedan]

What do you mean? Superman can't move away from the Donnerverse because the Donnerverse is boring? Wouldn't that be a better reason to move away from it?

Im talking about Superman Returns AND the Donner films. They are both very boring...especially SR.

[Draedan]

Apparently you don't know how to act civil....it all evens out.
But we are allowed to act like self-righteous, condescending asshats?

[C. Lee]

That's a vague possibility, yes. But it wasn't THE big story that had the country paralised, keeping an eye on that or anything. No one even suspected what was going on since that misteriuous person buying that land was considered something stupid an unimportant.

Plus, the missile aimed to Hackensack would confuse Lex' true intentions. It could have been considered an accident after all. The new missiles failed.

Now if, and I mean IF someone would follow the story and connect the loose ends, Lex would be rich enough to make some people dissapear in time, which he did successfuly in his first scene in STM. I guess he would be even more protected once he's immensely rich living in Costa del Lex.

Still no big deal for Luthy.Remember...this is talking as if Superman was not around to stop anything, and Lex's plans went through.

Sure, the country would be in turmoil for a while after 2 nukes explode and half the west coast disappears. A state of Martial Law would most likely be put into effect, and just the essentials of business would be allowed to go on (when the terrorists hit on 9/11....a good deal of the country was shut down for days).

But after a short time...the investigations would begins. And many people would pretty quickly discover that someone had just recently bought up all the land that is now the new west coast. Think Hurricane Katrina. At first the concentration was rescue and relief....then it went to who's the blame and how did that happen. Everyone associated with the transferring of the two nukes would be debriefed extensively. The crew whose missle hit New Jersey would be able to describe the ambulance drivers (for the wreck that no one in authority has any records of) as Lex and Otis and their victim as Miss Teshmacher. The officers in the other truck would identify the two yokels who stopped them on the bridge as Lex and Otis too. Lex would be the most hunted man in the world.

[C. Lee]

But we are allowed to act like self-righteous, condescending asshats?

You called people idiot for expressing their opinion....and it was deleted....so, the answer is...NO, you are not allowed to act like a self-rightous condescending asshat.

[WhatsHisFace]

I love the Donnerverse. It's the only Superman I know and love. I dislike the other versions of Superman greatly, aside from the Max Fleisher variant.

[NotFadeAway]

:D sigworthy!


That said, you didn't prove him wrong. :)

lol:cwink:

[El Payaso]

Remember...this is talking as if Superman was not around to stop anything, and Lex's plans went through.

No Superman? Even better.

Sure, the country would be in turmoil for a while after 2 nukes explode and half the west coast disappears. A state of Martial Law would most likely be put into effect, and just the essentials of business would be allowed to go on (when the terrorists hit on 9/11....a good deal of the country was shut down for days).

Now, isn't Osama Bin, a guy with money, still at large?

But after a short time...the investigations would begins. And many people would pretty quickly discover that someone had just recently bought up all the land that is now the new west coast. Think Hurricane Katrina. At first the concentration was rescue and relief....then it went to who's the blame and how did that happen. Everyone associated with the transferring of the two nukes would be debriefed extensively. The crew whose missle hit New Jersey would be able to describe the ambulance drivers (for the wreck that no one in authority has any records of) as Lex and Otis and their victim as Miss Teshmacher. The officers in the other truck would identify the two yokels who stopped them on the bridge as Lex and Otis too. Lex would be the most hunted man in the world.

I remember after Katrina how many fingers pointed at Georgie W. Don't need to tell you how he did.

The first time when we see Lex he's about to be captured. He had no problem killing the cop and getting away with it. I can see Lex getting rid of people that could be a problem for him and I can see even more that being a really powerful rich person, getting away with everything.

[C. Lee]

No Superman? Even better.
I have no idea what you mean by that statement.

Now, isn't Osama Bin, a guy with money, still at large?Which is why I said that Lex would be the most hunted man in the world.

I remember after Katrina how many fingers pointed at Georgie W. Don't need to tell you how he did.Right.....and I assume it was Bush who didn't reinforce the levies over the last 50 years, that he was personally responsible for the slow response by Louisianna's Governor, that he was at fault for the New Orleans officials not impleminting their own emergency response plan.....? Immediately after the disaster of Katrina, it was GEORGE BUSH DON'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE, IT'S BUSH'S FAULT, ETC....(for the record, I don't like Bush, but I blame the people actually responsible for things, not the one people WANT to be responsible).....but in the aftermath and the investigation....many people and many things covering decades was found to be leading up to the colossal fould up.

The first time when we see Lex he's about to be captured. He had no problem killing the cop and getting away with it. I can see Lex getting rid of people that could be a problem for him and I can see even more that being a really powerful rich person, getting away with everything.
The police were looking for the "master" criminal Lex Luthor....they followed his henchman into subway tunnels, where the cop following him was killed. And that was the end of the search. That's not master criminal at work.....that's sloppy policework (or sloppy writing, take your pick). Someone rich and powerful can get away with murder (it helps if you are in Hollywood)....that's been proven. But to get away with the murder of millions and the destruction of a land mass the size of California is something completely different. Also.....Lex may be rich (he got a good deal of money from somewhere to buy the land)....but considering he's hiding in an abandonned part of the subway hiding from the police, has only 2 assistants, and has to do most of the dirty work for his plans himself.....I don't consider him powerful.

[MFM]

What I really hate about Donner's universe is that somehow it seems that DC is trying to inject "Donnerism" into almost every version of Superman in almost every media he's in, especially after the release of SR (which is partially the reason why I "hate" that movie).

They killed Jonathan Kent in SMALLVILLE. Cue to "Donnerism" and SR.
Martha Kent was "Jonathan-less" in the LOSH toon (I've only watched the first season, but it's suffice to say that Jonathan is also dead in that universe).
Again, in SUPES: DOOMSDAY DVD, we see that Jonathan Kent is nowhere to be seen.
In the latest comics (atleast from the previews I saw in the internet, as I've never really had the access to the latest comics anywhere in my place), as a result of that so-called "crisis" (which is the perfect "excuse" for the writers/editors to do this), it is obvious that Clark Kent had been changed to "Dork" Kent, whose friend in the Daily Planet (as suggested by Perry's line) is only Jimmy Olsen (another proof of "Donnerism"). Yet he is already married to Lois Lane! How this "Dork" Kent manage to ask Lois's hand in marriage, I wonder...


So yes, I do am "sick" of Donnerism forcing itself into every Superman media (even in his comics!), alienating Post-Crisis Superman fans like myself. I do hope this somehow stops... :word:

[Mr. Socko]

The police were looking for the "master" criminal Lex Luthor....they followed his henchman into subway tunnels, where the cop following him was killed. And that was the end of the search. That's not master criminal at work.....that's sloppy policework (or sloppy writing, take your pick). Someone rich and powerful can get away with murder (it helps if you are in Hollywood)....that's been proven. But to get away with the murder of millions and the destruction of a land mass the size of California is something completely different. Also.....Lex may be rich (he got a good deal of money from somewhere to buy the land)....but considering he's hiding in an abandonned part of the subway hiding from the police, has only 2 assistants, and has to do most of the dirty work for his plans himself.....I don't consider him powerful.


NO!


























BILLIONS!

[Memphis Slim]

I am loooong since tired of the Donner Superman! I was really hoping for a re-boot. STAS was what I was hoping for.....a live vibrant Krypton with oceans, red skys, trees and exotic plants. The same stuff they do for the various planets in Star Wars.

But instead we get a re-tread of
Icy Krypton with emotionless Kryptonians.
Goofy Lex
Another Miss Tesbacher type (anybody else tire of that out of control car scene? Was that the most over done crap ever?)

A couple of henchmen
A real Estate plot
Kryptonite
And a Baby-Daddy plot. :cmad:

And of course the one thing Singer did "LEAVE" out was Superman standing for Truth, Justice and the American Way. He kept everything else the same. Oh no....we can't have that "Donner-ism" in this film. :dry: It came right from Chris Reeve's own mouth. But Singer just happened to zero in on that little gem and snatch it out.

Sick of Hollywood....:dry:

[VenomsMom]

But instead we get a re-tread of

Goofy Lex
Another Miss Tesbacher type (anybody else tire of that out of control car scene? Was that the most over done crap ever?)

A couple of henchmen
A real Estate plot
Kryptonite
And a Baby-Daddy plot. :cmad:

And of course the one thing Singer did "LEAVE" out was Superman standing for Truth, Justice and the American Way. He kept everything else the same. Oh no....we can't have that "Donner-ism" in this film. :dry: It came right from Chris Reeve's own mouth. But Singer just happened to zero in on that little gem and snatch it out.

Sick of Hollywood....:dry:
That car scene was a bit annoying.

[Angeloz]

Emotionless kryptonians? There was only Jor-El in the film. One person isn't a whole planet or race (except if they're destroyed i.e. Kal-El though he grew up on Earth so is complicated by that).

Angeloz

[Memphis Slim]

Emotionless kryptonians? There was only Jor-El in the film. One person isn't a whole planet or race (except if they're destroyed i.e. Kal-El though he grew up on Earth so is complicated by that).

Angeloz


Maybe icy and stoic is the correct description.

[Angeloz]

Maybe icy and stoic is the correct description.

Still only one (Jor-El if one doesn't count Kal-El etc.).

Angeloz

[NotFadeAway]

If I wrote a Superman film.....I would have Superman proudly say Truth, Justice, and the American way a sh^tload of times because that is the damn character.

That angered me that they didn't say it. You could have even had someone call him out on it in a sarcastic tone. But no.....stupid Singer.

[The Guard]

Jor-El wasn't emotionless in the movie. He's tearing up throughout his speech.

[The Guard]

I want you all to read THE LAST DAYS OF KRYPTON novel that's out now. It's not brilliant, but it does a nice job of placing the "Donner" Krypton in context.

Kryptonopolis is the capital city (After Kandor disappears via Braniac), but there are other regions of Krypton. It's not all high-tech crystal technologies, though I do find those kind of cool.

I'm all for a sequel to SUPERMAN RETURNS that features Braniac, crystal tech, Kandor, etc.

[NotFadeAway]

I found the scene between Jeff East and Glenn Ford to be very tocuhing, and it's one of my favorite scene's in the whole movie, if not my favorite. The Ford/East scene was more emotional and touching than anything with Brando.

[SuperDaniel]

Superman for all seasons is to me the best Superman origin ever told.

[El Payaso]

I found the scene between Jeff East and Glenn Ford to be very tocuhing, and it's one of my favorite scene's in the whole movie, if not my favorite. The Ford/East scene was more emotional and touching than anything with Brando.

Doesn't mean Brando lacked of sensitivity.

The speech filled with love when he's saying good-bye to Kal-El and the deleted scene with him talking to Superman and how he can not be personally with him are quite touching.

[NotFadeAway]

Doesn't mean Brando lacked of sensitivity.

The speech filled with love when he's saying good-bye to Kal-El and the deleted scene with him talking to Superman and how he can not be personally with him are quite touching.


I wasn't one of the ones saying Brando lacked sensitivity. I like my Jor-El to be sensitive in a subtle way, but still strong!

My only beef with Brando's Jor-El is how damn old he is, I really think Jor-El should be a younger scientist, therefor being the reason he is discredited when proclaiming Kryptons doom. But I'll forgive the age because it's Brando, one of the best actors of all time and for sure the best actor to ever read his lines from cards.

[teseract]

All of your opinions are wrong. You are wrong. However, I don't feel like typing yet today so just know, once again, that your are wrong. Shame on you for sharing your wrong opinion.

And you're an asshat, so what? *shrugs*

[NotFadeAway]

And you're an asshat, so what? *shrugs*

And your an idiot, which you prove everytime you post a comment, and yet you don't stop posting. Ignorance is bliss. Anyone who comes out and says they want a well-rounded Lex Luthor, and then points to the real estate Lex as evidence, is complete dumb ass. Anyone who refers to Superman actually having character depth as emo is a complete dumb ass, because the greatest characters in history have some kind of inner issues. Your Bronze age comics featured some of the stiffest, monotanous, and boring character writing I've ever seen. Well, that must be good for a wanker like yourself, you don't have to think to much about it or get to deep.

[C. Lee]

Stop the name calling people.....you can disagree without that stuff.

[Nightwing1977]

And you're an asshat, so what? *shrugs*

And your an idiot, which you prove everytime you post a comment, and yet you don't stop posting. Ignorance is bliss. Anyone who comes out and says they want a well-rounded Lex Luthor, and then points to the real estate Lex as evidence, is complete dumb ass. Anyone who refers to Superman actually having character depth as emo is a complete dumb ass, because the greatest characters in history have some kind of inner issues. Your Bronze age comics featured some of the stiffest, monotanous, and boring character writing I've ever seen. Well, that must be good for a wanker like yourself, you don't have to think to much about it or get to deep.

Come on, you 2. Let all just disagree instead of saying one is wrong for voicing their opinions. And I don't want you guys to fight either. You all are better than this. :oldrazz:

[NotFadeAway]

Hey, I'm finished arguing with teseract.

Lets get back to Superman talk!

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Should future sequels be based on, or tied to Donner's Superman universe?

Yes.

[Memphis Slim]

Still only one (Jor-El if one doesn't count Kal-El etc.).

Angeloz


Sigh.......:whatever:

Okay....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tvXIkokSJ6E

This is more of what I would have liked to see. But with live actors of course.

[Sam Fisher]

Well, without STM you'd probably wouldn't have gotten that overrated Batman 89.

[El Payaso]

Well, without STM you'd probably wouldn't have gotten that overrated Batman 89.

WTF

[Visionary]

Should future sequels be based on, or tied to Donner's Superman universe?NO.

[NotFadeAway]

Batman 89 was overrated...

[El Payaso]

Back on topic? :)

[Nightwing1977]

Batman 89 was overrated...

No wonder it sold like millions of merchandise at the time it came out. That's crazy!! :batman: :D

[NotFadeAway]

No wonder it sold like millions of merchandise at the time it came out. That's crazy!! :batman: :D

Now, Now....I didn't say I didn't like it. In fact, I loved it when I was younger, and I still cherish it to this day. It just pales compared to Begins. But it still makes me go all fanboy.

The two Batman movies I truly didn't like were, of course, Batman and Robin, and I can't stand Batman Returns to this day.

[Dr. Fate]

I wasn't one of the ones saying Brando lacked sensitivity. I like my Jor-El to be sensitive in a subtle way, but still strong!

My only beef with Brando's Jor-El is how damn old he is, I really think Jor-El should be a younger scientist, therefor being the reason he is discredited when proclaiming Kryptons doom. But I'll forgive the age because it's Brando, one of the best actors of all time and for sure the best actor to ever read his lines from cards.
I think early-mid 30s would suit Jor-El just fine.

[NotFadeAway]

I think early-mid 30s would suit Jor-El just fine.

Same here!

[Nightwing1977]

Now, Now....I didn't say I didn't like it. In fact, I loved it when I was younger, and I still cherish it to this day. It just pales compared to Begins. But it still makes me go all fanboy.

I agree. I feel the same way too. I has fun seeing Batman89 for the first time in theater when I was 12. But looking back, it didn't hold up too well like it once did. Still, I can tolerate compare to some others. :dry:

The two Batman movies I truly didn't like were, of course, Batman and Robin, and I can't stand Batman Returns to this day.

Zound!! Again, I have the same feeling too. We sure think alike. :D :D

[NotFadeAway]

I agree. I feel the same way too. I has fun seeing Batman89 for the first time in theater when I was 12. But looking back, it didn't hold up too well like it once did. Still, I can tolerate compare to some others. :dry:



Zound!! Again, I have the same feeling too. We sure think alike. :D :D


I know, when you take Superman Returns out of the equation, we think we quite alot.....my man:yay:

And yes, Batman 89 was a very enjoyable film, but it really started to age once Begins came out, but still very enjoyable!

I hated Batman Returns the day I saw it and I hate it now lol!

[Mr. Socko]

I know, when you take Superman Returns out of the equation, we think we quite alot.....my man:yay:

And yes, Batman 89 was a very enjoyable film, but it really started to age once Begins came out, but still very enjoyable!

I hated Batman Returns the day I saw it and I hate it now lol!


Batman '89 is my favorite one but I still enjoy them all.


Buuut, to get back on topic....

[El Payaso]

You think? I thought the derailing was not fading away...

[Angeloz]

Sigh.......:whatever:

Okay....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tvXIkokSJ6E

This is more of what I would have liked to see. But with live actors of course.

Funny thing I love that version too. But my point was that "Superman Returns" only showed Krypton briefly at the start. An ice planet with crystal formations plus a Jor-El voice-over just before it was blown up. Then we saw and occasionally heard Jor-El throughout the film. So Krypton was hardly in it and there was only one person that grew up there. Unless you want to explain yourself differently? I'll accept it.

Angeloz

[NotFadeAway]

You think? I thought the derailing was not fading away...

This actually made me laugh....good job:yay:

[Angeloz]

This actually made me laugh....good job:yay:

That reply didn't have enough venom... ;)

Angeloz

[NotFadeAway]

That reply didn't have enough venom... ;)

Angeloz

I'm not really in the mood to supply alot of venom at the moment:yay:

I'll be back in form in a few days!

[The Watchman]

I wouldn't go that far fella, it was great for its time. Now, like I've been saying, it's time to move on, linking Returns in any way to the Donnerverse was a mistake - one that I certainly understand why it was made - none the less. Time to move in a new direction, away from ice planets and the sterilization/neutering of the sci-fi more 'fantastic' elements. They try to ground the story, but still wedge it into some disjointed allegory? It needs to embrace what it is, show a thriving krypton, a warm inviting fortress, exotic alien animals, statues and all. Show Superman in his apartment, give us a feel for the world, embrace the mythology, expand, less grounded more super.

Beerface out.

[KaptainKrypton]

I personally wouldn't mind seeing more films tied to the "Donnerverse." SR may have had a couple of elements that were akin to the old films (music, and concepts for the fortress, and some choice dialogue) but there are also a lot of differences, as well. Either way, I'd just like to see where the franchise goes from here, regardless of if it is connected to the Donner films or not.

[Dr. Fate]

I wouldn't go that far fella, it was great for its time. Now, like I've been saying, it's time to move on, linking Returns in any way to the Donnerverse was a mistake - one that I certainly understand why it was made - none the less. Time to move in a new direction, away from ice planets and the sterilization/neutering of the sci-fi more 'fantastic' elements. They try to ground the story, but still wedge it into some disjointed allegory? It needs to embrace what it is, show a thriving krypton, a warm inviting fortress, exotic alien animals, statues and all. Show Superman in his apartment, give us a feel for the world, embrace the mythology, expand, less grounded more super.

Beerface out.
Exactly.

[Spider-Fan]

I think we should just make a stand alone Superman movie. No origin retelling or discussing previous events. Something with a different feel and a villain like Brainiac. I don't think we need to see another origin Superman movie. We have seen his origin. We all know it. It was done on film. Let's move on, and do some unconnected stand alone stories.

[Mr. Socko]

There are many things I like from the Donnerverse such as the score, Lex Luthor, the superman suit, Jor-El with a white pompadour, and especially the classic 40s time frame mixed with the style of today, it makes for the perfect production design. Those are things I would hate to see go.

[MFM]

There are many things I like from the Donnerverse such as the score, Lex Luthor, the superman suit, Jor-El with a white pompadour, and especially the classic 40s time frame mixed with the style of today, it makes for the perfect production design. Those are things I would hate to see go.Eh, that "classic 40s" stuff was just in Singerverse, no?

And which Superman suit are you referring? Donner's or Singer's?

Oh, what I really like from Donnerverse is
The Superman suit (Donner's... not Singer's)
The score (obviously)
Oh yeah, Christopher Reeve.
...eh? Basically that's it!


Having said that, like what The Watchman said, "let's move on". :D

[Uncle Sam]

The Donnerverse died with Christopher Reeve, and maybe even before that. After all, I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't mind forgetting Nuclear Man. I know Donner had nothing to do with that one, but it was still a continuation of his work... poor guy.

[SuperDaniel]

How can u guys like Donner`s Luthor after watching episodes like Memoria from Smallville, TAS, Lois & Clark, read Superman for all seasons is beyond me...

Donner`s Luhtor is the worst interpretation of the character.

[Mr. Socko]

I disagree. It's one of my favorites versions of the character. He will destroy countless number of lives for his plans of dominance. Hackman's Luthor was a cunning mastermind with a master plan, what other normal human could defeat a super powered being from another planet? I thought Spacey did a great job filling the shoes as well, perhaps even better. Lex Luthor also providing the comic relief only made it that much better. And who didn't like Lex's spiffy wigs?


Krrrrrryyypptonite!

It just rolls off the tongue.

[KaptainKrypton]

How can u guys like Donner`s Luthor after watching episodes like Memoria from Smallville, TAS, Lois & Clark, read Superman for all seasons is beyond me...

Donner`s Luhtor is the worst interpretation of the character.
Each to his own. Besides, there are so many different takes on Luthor that everyone will be preferential to the one that struck a chord with them first, most likely. And while I do enjoy Luthor in TAS and For All Seasons, the other two and you're on your own, homey. John Shea's Luthor came across as a hoity-toity art dealer type instead of a threatening super villain more often than not (just bad casting, for my taste, as SOME of the writing for him was good, particularly the staredown with a Cobra). And please don't get me started on Smallville's rendition of ANY of the characters. I enjoy various different portrayals of Luthor whether it be real estate nutjob, mad scientist, or corporate wolverine.

[Showtime]

I thought Spacey's potrayal of Luthor was vicious and what was done with Luthor was the best interpration moviewise as of yet. I think that Spacey had little to work with and did with it what he could.

[Super Kal]

I think they should combine certain elements of the Donnerverse with other elements of others, that way it'll stay creative

[Showtime]

Not me. I like a corporate Lex with politcial aspirations who is educated in many areas including sciences and astronomy.

[Nightwing1977]

Not me. I like a corporate Lex with politcial aspirations who is educated in many areas including sciences and astronomy.

Same here, Showy. :up:

[Mr. Socko]

Not me. I like a corporate Lex with politcial aspirations who is educated in many areas including sciences and astronomy.

As long as he's also an evil genius who wears wigs :up:

[Showtime]

Wigs Ftw.

[SuperDaniel]

Wigs? Lol.

[MFM]

Not me. I like a corporate Lex with politcial aspirations who is educated in many areas including sciences and astronomy.Yes, that's the kind of Luthor that I like the most! :up: It basically what L&C's and SMALLVILLE's Lex is.

As long as he's also an evil genius who wears wigs :up:Umm... nope, sorry. :D

[Mikelus]

Yes, that's the kind of Luthor that I like the most! :up: It basically what L&C's and SMALLVILLE's Lex is.

Umm... nope, sorry. :D

Totally agree, I think is more realistic to have a sophisticated Lex Luthor, all the campiness is really unnecessary.

[Lead Cenobite]

Hey people wear wigs in real life. I actually liked how they incorporated the wigs into SR, with Lex taking on different disguises for different purposes, and going bald whenever he is himself.

[C. Lee]

Hey people wear wigs in real life. I actually liked how they incorporated the wigs into SR, with Lex taking on different disguises for different purposes, and going bald whenever he is himself.

It definately was done better in SR than in the Hackman movies.

[Showtime]

Agreed. I think they handled the wigs quite well. The disguise explanation was fantastic.

[Juice2020]

What happened to looking at the source material? They need to read some post-Crisis Superman comics and leave that silly Donnerverse alone.

Oh I forgot, Singer can't read...

[El Payaso]

What happened to looking at the source material? They need to read some post-Crisis Superman comics and leave that silly Donnerverse alone.

Source material includes far more than post-crisis.

Oh I forgot, Singer can't read...

...


far a better troll than comedian here.

[Juice2020]

Source material includes far more than post-crisis.



...


far a better troll than comedian here.


Thanks for the compliment! :cwink:...:whatever: