Florida Primary

[StorminNorman]

After today the next big step in the race for the Republican race will be Florida - a state that can end several campaigns (Rudy, Huckabee) and also make a candidate the over-whelming favorite (Romney, McCain).

Being from the state, having been very active in the 2004 election and now the 2008, I am incredibly curious to see what this comes down to. Florida, politically, may be the most diverse in the nation: North-West Florida resembles Alabama, North-East Florida still conservative, but not as Evangelical, Central Florida more moderate - though still very "Republican" and South Florida with a heavy Jewish and Latino population, the most liberal part of the state.

The economy in Florida is strong compared to most of these recent states, will that hurt Romney? Especially when Romney will try to paint himself as the Economy Candidate.

Huckabee will need a high turnout in North Florida - and the hope that his more liberal views are hidden by his Baptist background.

McCain will try to capture the rather-large veteran vote and could do very well for himself.

Guillani has tied his campaigns life with Florida. He has spent weeks and weeks here. So far it hasn't paid off in the polls. Will his gamble pay off?


The Democrats Primary isn't nearly the Soap Opera the Republican Primary is.

Clinton has this state with an average of a 19 point advantage according to Real Clear Politics.

Obama's lead in South Carolina should stick, could that lend itself to a surge in Florida? I...really don't think so. But others more in touch with the Democrat mindset in Florida may have more to add.

[The Senator]

Prediction:

McCain wins, and Romney comes in second.

Giuliani will be in third place. I don't know if he'll be able to survive any loss here. My guess is, if he's trounced like he has been in the other early states, he may very well drop out here and spare himself the embarrassment of a crushing Super Tuesday defeat.

[hippie_hunter]

McCain wins, Giuliani in second, Romney in third, Huckabee in fourth because of a loss in South Carolina and Fred Thompson hurting him.

[StorminNorman]

Giuliani will not have a campaign if he gets anything lower than first place.

I will not make a prediction on who will win until it gets closer. I do know that I will be spending most of my free time on Romney's campaign here in Orlando.

[cookiva]

If Giuliani doesnt win, he is dead....

[StorminNorman]

Rasmussen Poll:
Romney 25%
McCain 20%
Guilliani 19%

[SentinelMind]

Hmm...will Rudy win any state outside of New York? Will he be an asterisk in textbooks?


I'm from FL, I think Norman's assessment of the state and political make up is pretty good. I'm in Northern Florida...and I'm seeing lots of Romney bumper stickers lately....

[rdh007]

McCain wins, Giuliani in second, Romney in third, Huckabee in fourth because of a loss in South Carolina and Fred Thompson hurting him.
QFTMFinT!

[The Senator]

Hmm...will Rudy win any state outside of New York? Will he be an asterisk in textbooks?

He's currently polling third in New York:

McCain: 34%
Romney: 19%
Giuliani: 18
Huckabee: 15%

[StorminNorman]

There seems to be thought amongst many in the Thompson campaign that Thompson will drop out after the weekend.

Again - I think this movie benefits Romney a lot. He will score probably half of all Thompson voters, possibly more. Those that dislike Romney based on his being a Mormon will be split between Huckabee and McCain.

[The Senator]

There seems to be thought amongst many in the Thompson campaign that Thompson will drop out after the weekend.

Again - I think this movie benefits Romney a lot. He will score probably half of all Thompson voters.

It may also benefit Huckabee.

:shudders:

[StorminNorman]

It may also benefit Huckabee.

:shudders:

No - I don't think so. Huckabee's record is fairly liberal and he (and McCain) faced fierce attack from Thompson. All Thompson supporters I have spoken with do not like Huckabee at all.

Thompson supporters want a Conservative candidate - Romney is the most conservative after Thompson.

[StorminNorman]

Also I voted for Romney today.

[hippie_hunter]

Rasmussen Poll:
Romney 25%
McCain 20%
Guilliani 19%

RCP Average:
McCain - 23.3%
Giuliani - 20%
Romney - 19.%

[cookiva]

Also I voted for Romney today.

You know it wont come true if you tell us....

[StorminNorman]

RCP Average:
McCain - 23.3%
Giuliani - 20%
Romney - 19.%

Rasmussen's polling is far more accurate - it was conducted 1/20.

Survey USA's is the only other valid poll conducted today (and, to be fair, it shows a similar number you have given) but the other polls can be thrown considering they were too old to truly take into effect Michigan - much less this weekend and recent trends.

Rasmussen is one of the top respected pollsters, above even Survey USA.

[StorminNorman]

You know it wont come true if you tell us....

(I really voted for Alan Keyes :()

[hippie_hunter]

Rasmussen's polling is far more accurate - it was conducted 1/20.

Survey USA's is the only other valid poll conducted today (and, to be fair, it shows a similar number you have given) but the other polls can be thrown considering they were too old to truly take into effect Michigan - much less this weekend and recent trends.

Rasmussen is one of the top respected pollsters, above even Survey USA.
I'm not downplaying Rasmussen because they are a top tier poller. But most polls have been putting McCain on top. And frankly, I think that is what is going to happen.

[StorminNorman]

I'm not downplaying Rasmussen because they are a top tier poller. But most polls have been putting McCain on top. And frankly, I think that is what is going to happen.

But the other polls are not viable.

Look at RealClearPolitics.com, the dates of the polls. Do you know which was most recent until these two today by Rasmussen? A Rasmussen poll done (the 18th I believe) that had the race 20 21 20 between McCain/Giuliani/Romney.

Romney has had momentum. The economy has done that. He won Michigan despite the fact most polls had him down. He won in Nevada to a far greater margin than predicted. Etc. Etc.

[CorpusBlack]

I'm in Southwest Florida and I hear a lot of support for McCain and a lot of distaste towards Romney. I do see a lot of Giuliani stickers though. Huckabee seems to be well under the radar here.

[Matt]

Giuliani needs Florida as much as Edwards needed Iowa. If he loses, he is done and his only reason for remaining in will be to obtain a position in someone's administration (he would love to be attorney general or VP and his remaining in the election will surely aide Huckabee by stealing Romney and McCain supporters). So he could be convinced by the Huckabee camp to stay in, in exchange for a nomination to another position. Just as Edwards is only still in the race to ensure a spot in Hillary's administration by hurting Obama.

[CorpusBlack]

Just as Edwards is only still in the race to ensure a spot in Hillary's administration by hurting Obama.

Which was very apparent by the debate last night.

[Matt]

Which was very apparent by the debate last night.

Yep. Well, in all fairness...Edwards' only chance at winning is for Obama to drop out and Edwards to take his supporters. If Edwards can take a few southern states on Super Tuesday and Obama drops out afterwards, Edwards could have a chance, albeit a small one. But yeah, at this point he just seems to be pandering to Clinton.

[hippie_hunter]

Giuliani needs Florida as much as Edwards needed Iowa. If he loses, he is done and his only reason for remaining in will be to obtain a position in someone's administration (he would love to be attorney general or VP and his remaining in the election will surely aide Huckabee by stealing Romney and McCain supporters). So he could be convinced by the Huckabee camp to stay in, in exchange for a nomination to another position. Just as Edwards is only still in the race to ensure a spot in Hillary's administration by hurting Obama.

I think Giuliani would have a place as Attorney General in a McCain Administration. The two also have friendly ties.

Though all of the GOP candidates actually like and respect each other except for Romney. They all apparently hate Romney.

[The Senator]

Though all of the GOP candidates actually like and respect each other except for Romney. They all apparently hate Romney.

It only makes sense. He's spent more money on attack ads than any other candidate, and spends most of his stump speeches criticizing his rivals. And really, he shouldn't be criticizing everyone else about the positions they take, considering he's changed his position on so many of the key issues, no one honestly knows what the man stands for.

[hippie_hunter]

It only makes sense. He's spent more money on attack ads than any other candidate, and spends most of his stump speeches criticizing his rivals. And really, he shouldn't be criticizing everyone else about the positions they take, considering he's changed his position on so many of the key issues, no one honestly knows what the man stands for.

I don't even mean it as a joke. I've heard it on the news and even read about it. The other GOP candidates, Giuliani, McCain, Huckabee, Paul, and Thompson actually hate the guy. For realz.

[Matt]

I find the Republican race, hatred for Romney aside, to be far classier than the Democrat race. Its just getting incredibly messy.

[Venom'sDad]

Though all of the GOP candidates actually like and respect each other except for Romney. They all apparently hate Romney.

I don't think they hate him, I think they really don't trust him, because of obvious reasons.

[CorpusBlack]

I find the Republican race, hatred for Romney aside, to be far classier than the Democrat race. Its just getting incredibly messy.

Yeah. I personally never thought I'd be swaying towards the Republicans come election time.

[hippie_hunter]

I don't think they hate him, I think they really don't trust him, because of obvious reasons.

Oh no. They really do hate him. McCain, Thompson, and Huckabee can't stand him. Giuliani enjoyed it when everyone ganged up on him. And I can't imagine Paul liking him either because Romney is such an a*sshole to him.

[Matt]

Yeah. I personally never thought I'd be swaying towards the Republicans come election time.

And whats bound to happen is, all these independents seeing Obama as "Fresh" will see his nonstop mudslinging with Hillary, become turned off by Democrats and vote Republican in November.

[hippie_hunter]

I find the Republican race, hatred for Romney aside, to be far classier than the Democrat race. Its just getting incredibly messy.

Of course it is classier. McCain is actually friends with Giuliani and Thompson. And he seems to be on friendly terms with Huckabee. And deep down they actually all respect each other, again Romney's the exclusion.

With the Democrats, it's a two way race of two people who have grown to hate each other with such animosity.

[CorpusBlack]

And whats bound to happen is, all these independents seeing Obama as "Fresh" will see his nonstop mudslinging with Hillary, become turned off by Democrats and vote Republican in November.

Couldn't agree more.

[The Senator]

I don't even mean it as a joke. I've heard it on the news and even read about it. The other GOP candidates, Giuliani, McCain, Huckabee, Paul, and Thompson actually hate the guy. For realz.

Oh, I know. Those guys' supporters hate him, too.

[StorminNorman]

Polling Update:

InsiderAdvantage is polling: Romney 24% Giulani 19% McCain 18%

[CorpusBlack]

Polling Update:

InsiderAdvantage is polling: Romney 24% Giulani 19% McCain 18%

F'n Florida. :csad:

[hippie_hunter]

Polling Update:

InsiderAdvantage is polling: Romney 24% Giulani 19% McCain 18%

Again proving my point that polling right now is just completely pointless and untrustworthy because this race is just too close to call. The latest InsiderAdvantage numbers show new numbers and leaders already:

Insider Advantage
McCain: 23%
Romney: 22%
Giuliani: 18%

And here are the more most recent numbers:

Rasmussen
Romney: 27%
McCain: 23%
Giluliani: 20%

Mason-Dixon
Romney: 30%
McCain: 26%
Giluliani: 18%

Strategic Vision
McCain: 25%
Giluliani: 22%
Romney: 20%

Survey USA
McCain: 25%
Giuliani: 20%
Romney: 19%

Miami Herald/St. Petersburg Times/Bay 9
McCain: 25%
Romney: 23%
Giuliani: 15%

Real Clear Politics Average
McCain: 24.5%
Romney: 23.5%
Giuliani: 18.8%

[Matt]

Florida is going to be determined by the senior citizens, obviously. So these polls are meaningless. Most seniors will just vote for whoever is fresh their mind. Therefore whoever ends up going to the most bingo games in retirement homes at the last minute will win.

[hippie_hunter]

I think the only thing that the polls will affect is negatively affecting Giuliani's campaign. They make him look like a loser for a guy who's spent so much time in Florida causing people to flock to either McCain or Romney.

[Matt]

I think the only thing that the polls will affect is negatively affecting Giuliani's campaign. They make him look like a loser for a guy who's spent so much time in Florida causing people to flock to either McCain or Romney.

Agreed. Like I said, the geezers will vote for whoever is fresh in their minds. If the last thing they see is a poll about how Giuliani is down and has wasted all this time in Florida, they will vote against him.

[StorminNorman]

Florida is going to be determined by the senior citizens, obviously. So these polls are meaningless. Most seniors will just vote for whoever is fresh their mind. Therefore whoever ends up going to the most bingo games in retirement homes at the last minute will win.

The Senior vote should be strongly for Rudy considering the large retired-New York Jewish population.

[CorpusBlack]

Florida is going to be determined by the senior citizens, obviously. So these polls are meaningless. Most seniors will just vote for whoever is fresh their mind. Therefore whoever ends up going to the most bingo games in retirement homes at the last minute will win.

FL is actually about 45% Senior Citizens and 45% inbred backwoods rednecks. The other 10% is young people like me who are sick of the same old bull**** who feel like their vote is wasted.

[rdh007]

The Senior vote should be strongly for Rudy considering the large retired-New York Jewish population.
Or it could work against him for those very things. He wasn't always "America's Mayor".

[StorminNorman]

Romney seems the be the favorite out of the debate tonight. Rated very highly by both voting and commentators. His sound bite about Bill Clinton in the White House with nothing to do will be played on the news until Tuesday.

McCain did himself no favors tonight. Nor did Giuliani. Huckabee got great reviews - but his lack of funds means it will do little to impact the Florida race.

[Venom'sDad]

Romney seems the be the favorite out of the debate tonight. Rated very highly by both voting and commentators. His sound bite about Bill Clinton in the White House with nothing to do will be played on the news until Tuesday.

McCain did himself no favors tonight. Nor did Giuliani. Huckabee got great reviews - but his lack of funds means it will do little to impact the Florida race.

IMHO, Romney won the debate tonight by far, and I totally agree with your assessment of RudyG.

The Republicans has better, more qualified, candidates, between the two Parties. I think they have a better grasp of the issues and appear to be more solution oriented.

:up:

[hippie_hunter]

I agree that Romney came off as the best in the debate tonight, but it's not like McCain or Giuliani were horrible either so I don't think that this is going to affect the polls that much.

I liked Huckabee's humor concerning Chuck Norris. He knows how to play that card well.

And poor Ron Paul gets ignored....again.

[hippie_hunter]

And Norman, don't say that Huckabee will do poorly because of lack of funds. He beat Huckabee by a decent margin when Romney outspent him 20-1. I think the most important thing we've learned this election is that money isn't going to matter, it's going to be who gets the message best across.

That said, there's no way Huckabee's going to be in the top 3 in Florida. It's all down to McCain and Romney.

[MaskedManJRK]

I liked Huckabee's humor concerning Chuck Norris. He knows how to play that card well.

And poor Ron Paul gets ignored....again.

Oh God...do I really wanna hear Huckabee's idea of humor? :dry:

And of course Paul gets ignored. He's always ignored.

And Norman, don't say that Huckabee will do poorly because of lack of funds. He beat Huckabee by a decent margin when Romney outspent him 20-1. I think the most important thing we've learned this election is that money isn't going to matter, it's going to be who gets the message best across.

That said, there's no way Huckabee's going to be in the top 3 in Florida. It's all down to McCain and Romney.

I hear ya--hell, I wrote McCain off early on, but he now seems to be back in the race.

It pains me to admit it, but there's a good chance that *****abee can still get the nominee.

[hippie_hunter]

Oh God...do I really wanna hear Huckabee's idea of humor?
It was actually pretty funny. He was asked about Norris' comments about McCain's age especially since he said them right next to Huckabee. Huckabee stated that he doesn't feel the same way about McCain's age like Norris does, but he didn't say anything at the time because Chuck was standing right next to him and would kick his head off. He says that he feels that McCain's age is not that big of a deal and he says it comfortably because he's a safe distance away from Chuck.

I hear ya--hell, I wrote McCain off early on, but he now seems to be back in the race.

It pains me to admit it, but there's a good chance that *****abee can still get the nominee.
Huckabee's done. He lost South Carolina which would have given him much needed momentum into Florida and Super Tuesday and would have resulted in some much needed donations.

The race is now down to Romney and McCain.

[StorminNorman]

I agree that Romney came off as the best in the debate tonight, but it's not like McCain or Giuliani were horrible either so I don't think that this is going to affect the polls that much.

I liked Huckabee's humor concerning Chuck Norris. He knows how to play that card well.

And poor Ron Paul gets ignored....again.

McCain could be jumped on for trying to argue that he never made that comment about him needing to learn more about the economy. He made that statement in the Boston Globe last year and the Wall Street Times before that.

[hippie_hunter]

Most recent Florida poll numbers

Insider Advantage
Romney - 26%
McCain - 24%
Giuliani - 16%

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
McCain - 31%
Romney - 28%
Giuliani - 15%

Survey USA
McCain - 30%
Romney - 28%
Giuliani - 18%

RCP Average
McCain - 26.3%
Romney - 26%
Giuliani - 17.7%

[hippie_hunter]

McCain gets support from Florida politicians:

MIAMI - Florida Sen. Mel Martinez endorsed John McCain on Friday, a move likely to give the Republican presidential candidate a crucial boost with the state’s Cuban-Americans just days before the primary.

“I understand that he is ready on Day One to lead this nation, and I would trust the future and the security of this nation to this man,” Martinez said in his introduction of McCain at the Latin Builders Association.

He added: “I would not endorse someone that I didn’t have total confidence is going to be (Fidel) Castro’s worst nightmare,” repeating the sentence in Spanish.

The decision is a blow to Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor in a close fight with McCain for support of voters in the Cuban-American community — and to keep his candidacy alive. It also is a setback for Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor in a close race against McCain.

Martinez, a Republican who was born in Cuba, emigrated to the United States as a teenager and is popular in Miami’s Little Havana neighborhood. It remains to be seen whether Martinez’ endorsement will translate into votes given that a significant percentage of voters already have cast absentee and early ballots — many before Giuliani’s drop and McCain’s ascent in the state.

But the backing of Florida’s junior senator may help McCain, nonetheless, in huge population centers of Miami, where many Cuban-Americans live, and Martinez’ hometown of Orlando.

Florida’s primary is Tuesday, and polls show McCain in a close race with Romney while Giuliani trails in his must-win state.

Martinez and the four-term Arizona senator are longtime friends who worked closely together on among other issues, a bill that would have created an eventual path to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants in the country.

As recently as Thursday night, Martinez indicated he would remain neutral in the race despite his friendship with McCain. He decided to endorse the Arizona senator Friday morning after conversations with several McCain supporters and his wife, officials say. The move surprised even his closest advisers.

He plans to spend the three days before the primary campaigning for McCain.

Martinez is a first-term senator who served as President Bush’s secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 2001 until 2003. Last October, he stepped down as the general chairman of the Republican National Committee after serving only 10 months.

Martinez, who is up for re-election in 2010, said he was relinquishing the job to spend more time focusing on his Florida constituents. He also said the RNC had achieved the objective he set when he assumed the job. A Quinnipiac University poll in October showed that Martinez only had 35 percent approval rating, and only 48 percent among Republicans.

His role with the national Republican Party likely hurt him with Democrats and independents, while his push for an immigration bill probably undercut his support among some Republicans.

Three members of Miami-area members of Congress — Reps. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Mario Diaz-Balart and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen — previously have given McCain their support.

[rdh007]

For Florida voters from crooksandliars.com:

McCain: “If we do what Senator Clinton said that she wanted to do night before last, and that’s wave the white flag of surrender and set a date for withdrawal, then we will have expenses, my friends, in American blood and treasure, because Al Qaida will then have won.”

Yet, when we had a Democrat in the White House McCain repeatedly argued for bringing the troops home regardless of the consequences:

1994 — “The right course of action is to make preparations as quickly as possible to bring our people home. It does not mean as soon as order is restored to Haiti, it doesn’t mean as soon as Democracy is flourishing in Haiti, it doesn’t mean as soon as we’ve established a viable nation in Haiti, as soon as possible means as soon as we can get out of Haiti without losing any American lives.”

1993 — “Date certain, Mr. President, are not the criteria here. What’s the criteria and what should be the criteria is our immediate, orderly withdrawal from Somalia. And if we don’t do that, and other Americans die, other Americans are wounded, other Americans are captured, because we stayed too long, longer than necessary, then I would say that the responsibilities for that lie with the Congress of the United States who did not exercise their authority under the Constitution of the United States and mandate that they be brought home as quickly and safely as possible.”

There you have it. McCain’s newfound surrender-phobia is a partisan fabrication, or else it’s time to question his sanity, or possibly both.

[cookiva]

Its not just him though. I have been screaming about this in all of my government/ politics courses. All republicans in the white house in the mid 90's wanted immediate withdrawal from Somalia and Bosnia. All of them. Now that they started this war, they want us to stay in no matter what. Its ridiculous.

[Anguissette1979]

This election scares me... :(

[hippie_hunter]

McCain gets another prominent Florida endorsement:

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist endorsed Sen. John McCain Saturday in his bid for the GOP presidential nomination.

"We have a lot of great people who are running for president this year who would all do well," Crist said at a dinner in Saint Petersburg, Florida with McCain.

"I don't think anybody would do better than the man who stands next to me, Sen. John McCain; that's an endorsement."

Florida voters go to the polls to cast their ballots for the Republican nomination on Tuesday.

[Matt]

I think the RNC no doubt wants McCain to win this election. He is the easiest to keep on a leash. 8 years ago, they would've hated the prospect...but he has in essence become their lap dog.

[StorminNorman]

McCain gets another prominent Florida endorsement:

Crist has no sway with voters.

[hippie_hunter]

Christ has no sway with voters.

Someone who has a 60% approval rating and is from what I read a "popular governor" is bound to have some sway. And the media has been stating that this will be important due to the endorsement will be on the front page of Florida newspapers.

And with a race this close both Romney and McCain are going to need as many Florida endorsements and coverage and advertising and pretty much everything as much as possible.

[rdh007]

I think the RNC no doubt wants McCain to win this election. He is the easiest to keep on a leash. 8 years ago, they would've hated the prospect...but he has in essence become their lap dog.
Which is why he's changed. He knew what he had to do to get the nom in '08.

This is also the reason I'd place him behind Romney and probably Giuliani.

[cookiva]

Which is why he's changed. He knew what he had to do to get the nom in '08.

This is also the reason I'd place him behind Romney and probably Giuliani.

True. I can't honestly stand any of the nominees for the republican side. I'm sorry guys, but I don't see how this country will improve with any of their candidates at the helm. Granted, I'm not too fond of the democrats either.

[The Professor]

I think McCain will get it with Romney in a close second. The amount of retired military/veterans in Florida combined with his recent success seems to be his formula for victory in our Sunshine State.

However, Romney definitely stood out during the debate. That will benefit him, and perhaps he can dethrone McCain.

It'll be close.

[Matt]

Its not going to come down to debates. Florida will be decided by senior citizens. And that means, essentially whoever is freshest in their mind is who they will vote for. That is why these polls are fluxuating so much. Whoever makes the best 11th hour push, will win.

[StorminNorman]

Its not going to come down to debates. Florida will be decided by senior citizens. And that means, essentially whoever is freshest in their mind is who they will vote for. That is why these polls are fluxuating so much. Whoever makes the best 11th hour push, will win.

This, of course, is to Romney's benefit given the fact that he has heads and tails the most money. He is the candidate in the best position to flood the media.

[hippie_hunter]

This, of course, is to Romney's benefit given the fact that he has heads and tails the most money. He is the candidate in the best position to flood the media.

We've all seen Romney's money be put to good use in Iowa and New Hampshire. Romney lost by a decent margin to a no name guy whom he overspent 20-1. And to a guy who's campaign was previously in shambles and had horrible money problems.

It's going to be down to money (Romney has the advantage), endorsements (McCain's advantage due to Martinez and Christ), the debates (Romney comes off better in the debate), impressions from the media (McCain is treated more favorably than Romney), flooding the media with advertisements (Romney has more money he can afford the better advertisements), and the people who actually go out and vote.

And here are some more recent Florida polls:

Rasmussen
Romney - 33%
McCain - 27%
Giuliani - 18%

Insider Advantage
Romney - 25%
McCain - 25%
Giuliani - 17%
Huckabee - 17%

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
Romney - 30%
McCain - 30%
Huckabee - 14%
Giuliani - 13%

RCP Average
Romney - 27%
McCain - 26.9%
Giuliani -17.3%

[Arkady Rossovich]

Giuliani will not have a campaign if he gets anything lower than first place.

I agree with that. He left the other states and immediately went to Florida,it's like saying "i don't care about those states. I'll focus here and jump along.",i think he should loose. Go to every state,and speak to the people.

[hippie_hunter]

I'd agree he does deserve to lose for his stupid ass strategy of ignoring all the states except for Florida.

[The Senator]

It's incredibly foolish that he decided to go for the big states, considering he was leading in New Hampshire until three weeks before the primary. Had he stayed in New Hampshire and actively campaigned there, he could have pulled of a second or third place finish, which would make him relevant everywhere else. But because he disappeared for a month, and the party has two frontrunners vying for the nomination, he screwed himself over.

But of course, he won't get out on Tuesday, because he probably still thinks he has a chance in California and New York-- where he's down by ten points in both states for a third-place finish.

His campaign, right along with Fred Thompson's, will go down as the worst campaign in the past fifty years of Presidential elections.

[StorminNorman]

We've all seen Romney's money be put to good use in Iowa and New Hampshire. Romney lost by a decent margin to a no name guy whom he overspent 20-1. And to a guy who's campaign was previously in shambles and had horrible money problems.


McCain wouldn't of won New Hampshire if it was a closed primary. :(

[hippie_hunter]

McCain wouldn't of won New Hampshire if it was a closed primary. :(
True, but have you considered that Romney is just a horrible candidate :oldrazz:

[hippie_hunter]

Two well-timed endorsements could make the difference for Sen. John McCain prior to Tuesday's pivotal Florida primary.

With Florida Sen. Mel Martinez and Gov. Charlie Crist throwing him their support, the Arizona senator might be able to drive local coverage in the final hours and obscure the economic message rival Mitt Romney used to dominate last week.

A victory in the Republican-only Sunshine State primary would cement McCain's status as the GOP front-runner and put him in a commanding position to wrap up his party's nomination on Super Tuesday.

The late support for McCain sets up a contest that will pit momentum versus organization.

With Crist and Martinez on board, McCain seems to hold the hot hand.

But his organization here, basically nonexistent after his campaign implosion last summer, pales in comparison to Romney's well-tended grassroots operation, one set up by backers of former Gov. Jeb Bush.

Despite the 11th-hour moves by Crist and Martinez, Bush reiterated in an e-mail to Politico that he intends to stay on the sidelines.

"I really think that the Republican voters have a good grasp on who to support," he wrote.

"I committed to be neutral and intend to keep my word."

Martinez's endorsement of McCain had been rumored for a week when he announced it at a Latino business event in Miami on Friday.

But Crist's surprise decision Saturday night to wade into the race has game-changing potential.

McCain and his aides knew that the popular governor — his approval ratings are about 60 percent — would attend a St. Petersburg GOP dinner where the candidate was scheduled to speak.

And McCain campaign manager Rick Davis had assiduously lobbied the governor and his staff in recent days.

But until Crist aides informed the campaign that the governor wanted to meet with McCain in his hotel suite minutes before the event, they didn't know he would receive Crist's support from the dais downstairs in the ballroom.

National cable news stations were in full campaign coverage mode because of the Democratic primary in South Carolina.

So when Crist announced his support to a beaming McCain before a ballroom full of reporters, the endorsement went national and also dominated the local 11 o'clock news.

The news came too late to receive prominent play in the Sunday papers here, but, to ensure top play on Sunday night broadcasts and in Monday's papers, McCain and Crist visited a downtown diner here this morning in a made-for-media appearance, where they were met by over a dozen reporters and nearly as many cameras.

The Martinez and Crist one-two punch apparently was not an accident. Talking to reporters after the diner hit, Crist acknowledged he had talked to Martinez.

"We did discuss it," Crist said. "Sen. Martinez is a very dear friend. And I endorsed him and he endorsed me in our respective primaries."

Sources close to Crist say that before Martinez got behind McCain on Friday, the senator called the governor on his cell phone to share his plans.

And Crist said Sunday morning that he returned the favor by sharing with Martinez his own plans to endorse yesterday.

Paired together, Crist said he hopes the endorsements have "a compounding effect" for McCain.

Members of his own party sometimes view McCain with suspicion, so the high-profile endorsements could reassure Florida Republicans — who alone can participate in Tuesday's closed primary.

"McCain's biggest problem is doubts among conservatives and the party establishment about whether he really is, 'one of us,'" said political analyst Charlie Cook.

"Having two of the biggest establishment figures in the state laying their hands upon him—that's pretty good."

The impact of Martinez's endorsement will likely be felt in central Florida—he is an Orlando native—and among his fellow Cuban Americans in Miami-Dade County.

The heavily Republican exile community will likely comprise about 10 percent of the statewide GOP vote.

Picking up Crist, though, may seal it for McCain.

Although his approval ratings have slipped from last year's stratospheric levels, Crist remains popular.

"Gov. Crist is the big one," said University of South Florida political science professor Susan MacManus.

David Johnson, a former state GOP executive director who is unaligned in the race, said much the same.

"Charlie's endorsement could really make a difference in a race like this, where all the public polls show a coin toss right now."

With visions of a vice presidential nomination clearly part of the calculus, Crist's allies played up the governor's king-making role.

"The race was fluid up until Crist got in," said Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer of the man who tapped him to lead the party.

"Gov Crist's endorsement is going to play a major role in who wins nomination. He's going to be viewed as a national leader."

Crist, who repeatedly dodged and did nothing to dissuade questions about his vice presidential aspirations, appeared on national cable news shows Saturday night from the St. Petersburg event and did satellite interviews with all three major cable networks Sunday morning in Tampa.

He's also recording a series of automated calls for McCain to blast out to Floridians tomorrow and Tuesday.

He will join the candidate on the trail Monday.

It may be too late for Crist to cut a TV spot, but radio remains a possibility.

For the McCain team, the 1lth-hour decision by Crist culminates a courting process that began in the spring of 2006.

That was when McCain initially met with Crist, who was then locked in a fierce gubernatorial primary battle.

At the prodding of McCain's former chief strategist John Weaver, the senator waded into the intra-party contest later that year. "We endorsed him when nobody else [nationally] did," Weaver recalled.

And McCain didn't just endorse Crist on paper.

He stumped in Florida before the September primary and lent his name and image to a direct mail piece.

After Crist won the nomination, McCain again returned to the state to help.

On the Monday before the general election that year, the two barnstormed together — much to the consternation of President Bush and Gov. Jeb Bush, who held a Panhandle rally with the GOP's gubernatorial nominee conspicuously absent.

Now, with Martinez and Crist taking sides, only the former governor remains neutral among Republicans with the potential to significantly influence the primary.

For their part, McCain's rivals downplayed the Martinez and Crist endorsements.

"I don't think people make their decision based on any one endorsement," said Mitt Romney spokesman Kevin Madden.

"They make their decision based on the issues."

As head of the Republican Governors Association in 2006, Romney gave the go-ahead for the RGA to contribute $1 million to the Florida GOP at a pivotal moment in Crist’s gubernatorial campaign.
But Crist's move must have stung even more for Giuliani.

His aides were hopeful and even expectant in recent months that the former New York City mayor would win the governor's backing.

"It is kind of surprising, frankly, considering the governor has said the [national catastrophic fund] was his top priority and Rudy is the only candidate who supports it," said a top Giuliani aide.

McCain has opposed the federal insurance backstop for hurricane-threatened Floridians.

Other Florida observers, partisan and neutral, point out that Martinez and Crist's approval ratings among core conservatives has slipped in recent months.

And some suggested that, by backing McCain, Crist was hoping for a fallback victory should the high-profile property tax amendment he has pushed not get the required 60 percent of the vote on Tuesday.

Still, as top McCain adviser Mark Salter points out, both Romney and Giuliani would gladly trade places with their rival.

"Every candidate in this race down here would've loved, loved, loved to have gotten that endorsement last night."

[hippie_hunter]

More polls:

Rasmussen
McCain: 31%
Romney: 31%
Giuliani: 16%

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
McCain: 33%
Romney: 30%
Giuliani: 14%

Suffolk
McCain: 30%
Romney: 27%
Giuliani: 13%

Strategic Vision
McCain: 27%
Romney: 26%
Giuliani: 17%

Quinnipac
McCain: 32%
Romney: 31%
Giuliani: 14%

RCP Average
McCain: 29.3%
Romney: 28.5%
Giuliani: 15.9%

[Chris B]

I'm thinking McCain will have a narrow victory.

[StorminNorman]

McCain has been attacking the airwaves with...well...flat out lies about Romney. Ads accusing Romney of wanting time tables in Iraq, of not supporting the troop surge last year and implying Romney raised taxes in Massachusetts.

All of which are completely false.

I though McCain didn't support ads like this?

[cookiva]

McCain is a butt. I used to like him, but he is a total butt.

[hippie_hunter]

McCain has been attacking the airwaves with...well...flat out lies about Romney. Ads accusing Romney of wanting time tables in Iraq, of not supporting the troop surge last year and implying Romney raised taxes in Massachusetts.

All of which are completely false.

I though McCain didn't support ads like this?

Considering that all the other Republican candidates hate Romney, it's not surprising.

And Romney totally deserves it since he did the exact same thing against Huckabee and McCain in Iowa and New Hampshire. He would still be doing it if the attack ads didn't blow up in his face.

[cookiva]

I'm not saying its not deserved. Just McCain has put himself on some pedestal about how he doesn't do this type of stuff.

[hippie_hunter]

I'm not saying its not deserved. Just McCain has put himself on some pedestal about how he doesn't do this type of stuff.

Obama has done the same thing. He claimed to be a politician that was above such stuff yet now he's down to the Clinton's level.

It's just something that's going to have to be looked over unfortunately.

[cookiva]

Again, Obama deserves it. Clinton got worse when Obama sunk below her the first time. Its going to get worse and worse as we go on.

[hippie_hunter]

Again, Obama deserves it. Clinton got worse when Obama sunk below her the first time. Its going to get worse and worse as we go on.

My main point was that this is just something that will have to get looked over.

However, Clinton is going to get raped by McCain's attack ads. While he may make up stuff with Romney. Clinton has a lot of stuff that can be used against her and he'll force her to shut up as the experience candidate.

[StorminNorman]

Considering that all the other Republican candidates hate Romney, it's not surprising.

And Romney totally deserves it since he did the exact same thing against Huckabee and McCain in Iowa and New Hampshire. He would still be doing it if the attack ads didn't blow up in his face.

His attacks in Iowa and New Hampshire weren't attack ads. They compared the records.

His ads also didn't, well...lie.

There is a HUGE difference.

[cookiva]

My main point was that this is just something that will have to get looked over.

However, Clinton is going to get raped by McCain's attack ads. While he may make up stuff with Romney. Clinton has a lot of stuff that can be used against her and he'll force her to shut up as the experience candidate.


I really don't know why people want her nominated, though. She is the least electable candidate. She has the most polarizing effect on our nation. I mean, even before she announced that she was running, there were facebook groups about leaving the country if she was elected.

[hippie_hunter]

His attacks in Iowa and New Hampshire weren't attack ads. They compared the records.

His ads also didn't, well...lie.

There is a HUGE difference.

You're Romney bias has horribly blinded you about this man

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two negative ads recently launched by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who has spent more on advertising than any other candidate, either misrepresent his rival's records or include distortions, according to a CNN analysis of the commercials.

The ads come as the Republican air war has erupted into a series of attacks ads, just days before the Iowa caucuses on January 3, Wyoming caucuses on January 5, and the New Hampshire primary on January 8.
In one Romney television ad running in New Hampshire, the announcer calls rival Sen. John McCain "an honorable man" then goes on to ask "but is he the right Republican for the future?"

"McCain pushed to let every illegal immigrant stay here permanently..." the announcer charges. "Even voted to allow illegals to collect Social Security."

But the ad distorts the position of the Arizona Republican, who has narrowed Romney's lead in New Hampshire. McCain's compromise legislation introduced last summer, which was backed by President Bush, would have required illegal immigrants to return to their home countries and pay a fine for breaking the law before applying for legal status.

McCain also voted to allow illegals to receive past Social Security benefits only after obtaining legal status.

Romney, for his part, ordered a police crackdown on illegal immigrants two weeks before he left the job of governor of Massachusetts.

While Romney is strafing McCain in New Hampshire, his target in Iowa is former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

In the anti-Huckabee commercial, the announcer calls Romney and Huckabee "two good men," then asks "but who is ready to make tough decisions?"

"Mike Huckabee? Soft on government spending.... His foreign policy? 'Ludicrous,' says Condoleezza Rice," the announcer continues.

Secretary of State Rice, however, did not call Huckabee's foreign policy "ludicrous." Rice was responding to Huckabee's criticism of the Bush administration for what he called an "arrogant bunker mentality" on world affairs in the January/February issue of Foreign Affairs magazine.

McCain is fighting back by using criticism of Romney from editorial writers, which has the effect of making him seem less negative.

In the McCain ad, the announcer says, "As you hear Mitt Romney attack John McCain, consider these words from New Hampshire newspapers. The Union Leader says John McCain has 'conviction' and 'Granite Staters want a candidate who will look them in the eye and tell them the truth.' "
"John McCain has done that," the announcer continues, quoting the newspaper's editorial. "Mitt Romney has not."

While Romney's ads say a few nice words about Huckabee and McCain before ripping their records, the commercials could backfire on Romney. In races with crowded fields, negative ads have sparked voter backlash against squabbling politicians. The attacks wind up helping candidates who stick with a positive message.

That may be why Huckabee on Monday announced he had pulled a television ad his campaign had prepared to respond to Romney's criticism.

He said he called his staff Monday morning and told them he wanted it pulled.

"I just decided that's not the way we want to run it," the former pastor said. "It's never too late to do the right thing."

Huckabee acknowledged that he expected "cynicism" from those who believe that by showing the ad at the news conference he is still launching the attack while coming across as a candidate who wants to stay positive.

But, Huckabee said, he expects that if he had not shown the ad, reporters would have asked to see it.

"Conventional political wisdom is that when you're hit, and it's beginning to do damage, the smart play is to hit back," Huckabee said during an event in Des Moines, Iowa. But he said, "that's not the way we want to run it."
"We have to decide we can change the kind of politics and the level of discourse," Huckabee said. "We've got to start somewhere, so we might as well start here and might as well start with me."

Huckabee said the commercial was sent to Iowa television stations and may air for a day before being pulled out of rotation. Huckabee also said he would not be surprised if the commercial was posted on YouTube.
Romney launched a television ad in Iowa Monday, titled "Everywhere," that emphasizes a positive message.



In that commercial, Romney says, "Everywhere my family and I go we hear that America's challenges are simply too big for Washington politicians. I've spent my life tackling big problems -- helping turn around business, the Olympics, and state government."

"Together we can grow our economy, stop illegal immigration, defend life and preserve the values that make America the hope of the Earth," Romney says. "It's time to turn around Washington."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/31/romney.ads/

Romney didn't lie my ass. He downright started it. The Republican race would be 100% civil if it weren't for Romney's presence in it. The attack ads are the very reason why not just McCain and Huckabee hate the guy, but all of the Republican candidates hate the guy.

[hippie_hunter]

The Union Leader on Mitt Romney:

ONE of the reasons this newspaper has endorsed U.S. Sen. John McCain over former Gov. Mitt Romney has become clearer in recent days: When the campaigning gets serious and the gloves come off, McCain sticks to the facts; Romney plays loose with them.

We don't mind what some deride as "negative'' campaigning, if the negatives are merely a true look at a candidate's record. Romney obviously senses that New Hampshire Republicans are looking at McCain and therefore he is spending his millions to plaster the TV with anti-McCain messages.

Fair enough. Politics isn't beanbag.

But Romney is apparently so desperate that he has chosen distortion over facts. He is claiming on TV that Sen. McCain supports Social Security for illegal immigrants. That is patently and demonstrably false. In fact, McCain wants to make sure that LEGAL immigrants have their Social Security taxes properly accounted for so that the rest of U.S. taxpayers aren't footing that bill, too. Anyone who cares for the details can find them at factcheck.org. That respected nonprofit Web site, in an unusually harsh criticism, dubbed Romney's claims "Mitt Malarkey."

The last time Social Security was so blatantly misused in a Presidential Primary race, the victim was Barry Goldwater. That senator from Arizona wasn't able to fend off the distortion in time to win that primary. This time, we think the voters of New Hampshire will catch on.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=With+gloves+off%2c+Romney+di storts&articleId=6e26e86a-c3b9-4770-abd4-add48c279c42

[hippie_hunter]

Concord Monitor on Mitt Romney

you were building a Republican presidential candidate from a kit, imagine what pieces you might use: an athletic build, ramrod posture, Reaganesque hair, a charismatic speaking style and a crisp dark suit. You'd add a beautiful wife and family, a wildly successful business career and just enough executive government experience. You'd pour in some old GOP bromides - spending cuts and lower taxes - plus some new positions for 2008: anti-immigrant rhetoric and a focus on faith.

Add it all up and you get Mitt Romney, a disquieting figure who sure looks like the next president and most surely must be stopped.

Romney's main business experience is as a management consultant, a field in which smart, fast-moving specialists often advise corporations on how to reinvent themselves. His memoir is called Turnaround - the story of his successful rescue of the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City - but the most stunning turnaround he has engineered is his own political career.

If you followed only his tenure as governor of Massachusetts, you might imagine Romney as a pragmatic moderate with liberal positions on numerous social issues and an ability to work well with Democrats. If you followed only his campaign for president, you'd swear he was a red-meat conservative, pandering to the religious right, whatever the cost. Pay attention to both, and you're left to wonder if there's anything at all at his core.

As a candidate for the U.S. Senate in 1994, he boasted that he would be a stronger advocate of gay rights than his opponent, Ted Kennedy. These days, he makes a point of his opposition to gay marriage and adoption.

There was a time that he said he wanted to make contraception more available - and a time that he vetoed a bill to sell it over-the-counter.

The old Romney assured voters he was pro-choice on abortion. "You will not see me wavering on that," he said in 1994, and he cited the tragedy of a relative's botched illegal abortion as the reason to keep abortions safe and legal. These days, he describes himself as pro-life.

There was a time that he supported stem-cell research and cited his own wife's multiple sclerosis in explaining his thinking; such research, he reasoned, could help families like his. These days, he largely opposes it. As a candidate for governor, Romney dismissed an anti-tax pledge as a gimmick. In this race, he was the first to sign.

People can change, and intransigence is not necessarily a virtue. But Romney has yet to explain this particular set of turnarounds in a way that convinces voters they are based on anything other than his own ambition.

In the 2008 campaign for president, there are numerous issues on which Romney has no record, and so voters must take him at his word. On these issues, those words are often chilling. While other candidates of both parties speak of restoring America's moral leadership in the world, Romney has said he'd like to "double" the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, where inmates have been held for years without formal charge or access to the courts. He dodges the issue of torture - unable to say, simply, that waterboarding is torture and America won't do it.

When New Hampshire partisans are asked to defend the state's first-in-the-nation primary, we talk about our ability to see the candidates up close, ask tough questions and see through the baloney. If a candidate is a phony, we assure ourselves and the rest of the world, we'll know it.

Mitt Romney is such a candidate. New Hampshire Republicans and independents must vote no.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071222/OPINION/712230301

[Arkady Rossovich]

I don't like McCain..but his name sounds very impressive.."President John McCain"..it sounds pretty good.

[hippie_hunter]

I don't like McCain..but his name sounds very impressive.."President John McCain"..it sounds pretty good.

Just what's so bad about McCain?

He's proven that he's willing to work with the Democrats. He has appeal to moderates and independents. He firmly believes in protecting the enviroment. He wants to cut government spending which will help with America's deficit problems. And he's probably the only candidate that can competently run Iraq.

[Matt]

Just what's so bad about McCain?

He's proven that he's willing to work with the Democrats. He has appeal to moderates and independents. He firmly believes in protecting the enviroment. He wants to cut government spending which will help with America's deficit problems. And he's probably the only candidate that can competently run Iraq.

Whats wrong with McCain? He has proven that he is nothing more than a party lackey. Back in 2000, McCain was this cool outsider who didn't take **** from anyone. Which is exactly why the GOP destroyed his candidacy. They ran ads claiming he was the father of illigitiment children and went crazy during his time in POW camps and still is. Those attacks in 2000 were ridiculously below the belt. Yet he stayed loyal. That is what concerns me about McCain. Instead of rebelling against the party who did that to him, he bends over and continues to take it from them. He conformed to be what they wanted. He let them win and became their lap dog. I don't want a man like that as my President.

[StorminNorman]

You're Romney bias has horribly blinded you about this man


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/31/romney.ads/

Romney didn't lie my ass. He downright started it. The Republican race would be 100% civil if it weren't for Romney's presence in it. The attack ads are the very reason why not just McCain and Huckabee hate the guy, but all of the Republican candidates hate the guy.

McCain HAS supported Amnesty. That was his position. Romney brought it up - because it is an area where McCain differs greatly from the rest of the GOP. Its not a lie.

Rice was also responding to Huckabee's view on Foreign Relations as "Ludicrous".

I am failing to see how these are "lies".

[Matt]

I dislike every candidate running so much...that if Bloomberg does not enter the race as an independent, I would seriously consider voting Romney...strictly on the grounds that we have not hand a Northeastern President since JFK.

[Matt]

Hippie_Hunter, quick question, btw. Just out of curiousity:

Romney vs Clinton or Obama. Who do you vote for?

[cookiva]

No 3rd party options, matt?

[The Senator]

Clinton vs. McCain vs. Bloomberg would be interesting. Clinton would probably come out the winner, if you ask me. Bloomberg would draw that independent support away from McCain, and probably some Republicans who would vote for Bloomberg out of spite for McCain. Whereas Clinton would retain most of her Democratic base, plus the few independents who would float to her...

1992 redux, anyone?

[cookiva]

If Bloomberg runs, and anyone other than McCain is the nominee, he takes votes away from Clinton, and the democrats lose.

Wow, Biden is praising Obama on MSNBC right now. This is weird. Didn't think he would be this happy for him. Wow. He is really hyping him up[.

[hippie_hunter]

McCain HAS supported Amnesty. That was his position. Romney brought it up - because it is an area where McCain differs greatly from the rest of the GOP. Its not a lie.

Did you completely ignore the article I posted, they downright exposed that Romney lied and distorted information:

But the ad distorts the position of the Arizona Republican, who has narrowed Romney's lead in New Hampshire. McCain's compromise legislation introduced last summer, which was backed by President Bush, would have required illegal immigrants to return to their home countries and pay a fine for breaking the law before applying for legal status.

McCain also voted to allow illegals to receive past Social Security benefits only after obtaining legal status.

Romney's ad stated:

"McCain pushed to let every illegal immigrant stay here permanently..." the announcer charges. "Even voted to allow illegals to collect Social Security."

It is a LIE.

Rice was also responding to Huckabee's view on Foreign Relations as "Ludicrous".

Romney's ad stated that Rice said that Huckabee's foreign policy was ludicrous, not his article. Again Romney LIED.

I am failing to see how these are "lies".

If you fail to see Romney's lies then you have to be blind to McCain's lies, because it would be completely hypocritical if you ignore one over the other.

Romney is a lying douchebag and completely deserves the treatment he's getting from the other Republican nominees. As I said about Barack Obama:

**** Mitt Romney.

[hippie_hunter]

Hippie_Hunter, quick question, btw. Just out of curiousity:

Romney vs Clinton or Obama. Who do you vote for?

I will downright refuse to vote for any of them. Romney, Clinton, and Obama are the candidates that I absolutely cannot stand.

[hippie_hunter]

Clinton vs. McCain vs. Bloomberg would be interesting. Clinton would probably come out the winner, if you ask me. Bloomberg would draw that independent support away from McCain, and probably some Republicans who would vote for Bloomberg out of spite for McCain. Whereas Clinton would retain most of her Democratic base, plus the few independents who would float to her...

1992 redux, anyone?

Bloomberg will likely not run if McCain got the nomination. He'd probably run if Romney or Huckabee got the nom.

[hippie_hunter]

Whats wrong with McCain? He has proven that he is nothing more than a party lackey. Back in 2000, McCain was this cool outsider who didn't take **** from anyone. Which is exactly why the GOP destroyed his candidacy. They ran ads claiming he was the father of illigitiment children and went crazy during his time in POW camps and still is. Those attacks in 2000 were ridiculously below the belt. Yet he stayed loyal. That is what concerns me about McCain. Instead of rebelling against the party who did that to him, he bends over and continues to take it from them. He conformed to be what they wanted. He let them win and became their lap dog. I don't want a man like that as my President.

George W. Bush f**ked McCain over, the GOP just simply allowed it. McCain likely stayed loyal to the Republican Party because he still had Presidential aspirations and simple fact that McCain would just not fit in with the Democrats.

While McCain is a loyal Republican he's still willing to work with the Democrats and supports "liberal" positions on the enviroment, campaign finance reform, immigration, etc.

[LuiECuomo]

I will downright refuse to vote for any of them. Romney, Clinton, and Obama are the candidates that I absolutely cannot stand.

Agreed. It's pretty sad that THEY are the best this country has to offer. I wouldn't vote for any of them if you paid me.

[cookiva]

Agreed. It's pretty sad that THEY are the best this country has to offer. I wouldn't vote for any of them if you paid me.

So if someone gave you one million bucks, you wouldn't vote for one of them?

[hippie_hunter]

I'd vote for Romney in a heartbeat if he offered me $1 million.

That or if he offered me tips on his hairdo.

[hippie_hunter]

Survey USA
McCain: 32%
Romney: 31%
Giulilani: 15%

RCP Average
McCain: 29.9%
Romney: 29.1%
Giuliani: 15.4%

[cookiva]

Exactly.

Granted, you living in NY and me living in Texas means our states have already been decided. Cuomo, however, lives in Illinois, so his vote means more.

[hippie_hunter]

Exactly.

Granted, you living in NY and me living in Texas means our states have already been decided. Cuomo, however, lives in Illinois, so his vote means more.

Meh, I consider my vote to count since I live in the region of New York is a Republican stronghold.

I come from a Republican family who have Republican friends and the people who I hang out the most are Republican.

[cookiva]

Alright.

Now, im sure your family is, but are your friends the old school type of republican, or the new breed?

[StorminNorman]

Did you completely ignore the article I posted, they downright exposed that Romney lied and distorted information:

But the ad distorts the position of the Arizona Republican, who has narrowed Romney's lead in New Hampshire. McCain's compromise legislation introduced last summer, which was backed by President Bush, would have required illegal immigrants to return to their home countries and pay a fine for breaking the law before applying for legal status.

McCain also voted to allow illegals to receive past Social Security benefits only after obtaining legal status.

Romney's ad stated:



It is a LIE.



Romney's ad stated that Rice said that Huckabee's foreign policy was ludicrous, not his article. Again Romney LIED.

I read the article completely. I think, however, that the article also doesn't view the situation fairly.

McCain has supported amnesty - just as the ad said. The article only brings up the McCain-Kennedy bill that imposes a small fine on illegals (which some could see as all but amnesty as is), but fails to look back at McCain's record and comments.

Also, Huckabee's article was about Foreign Policy and what he would do as President. For Secretary Rice to call it "ludicrous" is, in affect, calling Huckabee's views ludicrous.

If you fail to see Romney's lies then you have to be blind to McCain's lies, because it would be completely hypocritical if you ignore one over the other.

Romney is a lying douchebag and completely deserves the treatment he's getting from the other Republican nominees. As I said about Barack Obama:

**** Mitt Romney.

For McCain to try to claim that Romney supported deadlines in Iraq is a completely lie. Something that doesn't at all have a single iota of support by reality. You will not find a single story about Romney at all supporting such a proposal.

Also, while I may be blind to Romney, you are equally bias against him. For you to characterize Romney as a "lying douchebag" yet have no negative comment on McCain is even more hypocritical than I sense at least you acknowledge the fact that McCain is lying.

[rdh007]

From crooksandliars.com McCain fumbles an education question:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/25773/2/McCain-Florida-Stump.mov

He has to bring in Lieberman to help him answer the question. And Lieberman doesn't even bother to address it.


McCain sucks. Romney FTW.

[Kitsune]

From crooksandliars.com McCain fumbles an education question:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/25773/2/McCain-Florida-Stump.mov

He has to bring in Lieberman to help him answer the question. And Lieberman doesn't even bother to address it.


McCain Rocks. Romney WTF.
Corrected :D

[The Senator]

Meh, I consider my vote to count since I live in the region of New York is a Republican stronghold.

I come from a Republican family who have Republican friends and the people who I hang out the most are Republican.

And that's why the City and Long Island are amazing.

[Darthphere]

I voted. :up:

[rdh007]

Congrats. Now you get to complain.

[Darthphere]

They keep running this commerical for Romney down here with a quote that states "Romney is best when in crisis" or something to that effect. I was like wha?

[hippie_hunter]

Alright.

Now, im sure your family is, but are your friends the old school type of republican, or the new breed?

I'm one of the more liberal people that I know.

[hippie_hunter]

I read the article completely. I think, however, that the article also doesn't view the situation fairly.

McCain has supported amnesty - just as the ad said. The article only brings up the McCain-Kennedy bill that imposes a small fine on illegals (which some could see as all but amnesty as is), but fails to look back at McCain's record and comments.

Also, Huckabee's article was about Foreign Policy and what he would do as President. For Secretary Rice to call it "ludicrous" is, in affect, calling Huckabee's views ludicrous.
WHAT! The article doesn't view the situation fairly? Are you that freaking biased towards Romney? Romney downright lied about McCain's position on immigration which he does not and distorted information about Huckabee.



For McCain to try to claim that Romney supported deadlines in Iraq is a completely lie. Something that doesn't at all have a single iota of support by reality. You will not find a single story about Romney at all supporting such a proposal.
McCain lied and distorted the facts just like Romney did. We're not arguing about that. And yes I have found articles that say what McCain said is true, but they're complete bull.

Also, while I may be blind to Romney, you are equally bias against him. For you to characterize Romney as a "lying douchebag" yet have no negative comment on McCain is even more hypocritical than I sense at least you acknowledge the fact that McCain is lying.
Yes I am biased against Romney, just as I'm biased against Clinton and Obama. But that's because Romney's a sleezeball. The reason why I'm not negative against McCain's lies and distortions against Romney is because the doucebag completely deserves it for his behavior in Iowa and New Hampshire. He's the only reason why the Republican primaries are not 100% civil. If McCain did this to another candidate I would criticize him for it.

[Matt]

If Bloomberg runs, and anyone other than McCain is the nominee, he takes votes away from Clinton, and the democrats lose.

Wow, Biden is praising Obama on MSNBC right now. This is weird. Didn't think he would be this happy for him. Wow. He is really hyping him up[.

I don't think Bloomberg will run if McCain gets the nomination though. :csad: What makes Bloomberg such an interesting third party, though...is the fact that he can take away votes from both sides (he is a social liberal and a fiscal conservative). Not to mention his campaign would have literally limitless resources. I'm not saying he will win, because he won't...but imagine if he could pull in 20 % of the vote or so. He could redefine American politics.

[Matt]

I will downright refuse to vote for any of them. Romney, Clinton, and Obama are the candidates that I absolutely cannot stand.

Bloomberg '08! :woot:

I'd vote for Romney simply because even though he comes off as an unbearable douche...I don't think he'd mess things up too much. And I think he'd be an easy candidate for someone like Mark Warner or Sherrod Brown to beat.

[Matt]

George W. Bush f**ked McCain over, the GOP just simply allowed it. McCain likely stayed loyal to the Republican Party because he still had Presidential aspirations and simple fact that McCain would just not fit in with the Democrats.

While McCain is a loyal Republican he's still willing to work with the Democrats and supports "liberal" positions on the enviroment, campaign finance reform, immigration, etc.

The GOP allowing it is just as bad as doing it. Not to mention, yeah, George W. Bush ****ed him over, and yet there he was in 2004, campaigning for the guy and since he entered the presidential race, he has become one of his biggest supporters in order to appease the base. There is a very very thin line between loyalty and being the friend who everyone keeps around just because you are their *****. McCain has been the latter for the past 6 years and that has caused me to lose all respect for him. Plus, I don't think the GOP will allow him to select Lieberman as a running mate...but even if he does, Lieberman is a pro-censorship nut job. Still, I think he will pick some George Bush-esque Neo-Con to balance his ticket...and to be quite frank, he is not getting any younger and frankly his health does not inspire me to think he will make it past his first term. And Lieberman or a GOP selected Neo-Con scares the hell out of me.

[Matt]

Agreed. It's pretty sad that THEY are the best this country has to offer. I wouldn't vote for any of them if you paid me.

They aren't the best the country has to offer. They are just the ones who ran :csad:

[hippie_hunter]

You too can have Romney's awesome hair (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/romney/video/?bcpid=988092818&bclid=978961437&bctid=987399674)

[hippie_hunter]

FactCheck.org on Romney's attacks on McCain:

- Claims McCain "voted to allow illegals to collect Social Security." That's untrue. Nobody who is in the country illegally could be paid any Social Security benefits under McCain's immigration bill.

- Implies McCain supported "amnesty" for illegal immigrants. That word isn't accurate. Illegal immigrants wouldn't have received a blanket pardon under McCain's bill. Instead, they would have had to pay thousands in penalties and fees to gain legal status. In fact, in 2005 Romney called McCain’s proposal “reasonable” and said it wasn’t amnesty.

- The ad says Romney "cut taxes" in Massachusetts. While he did cut some taxes – for example, enacting business tax credits – tax rates remained unchanged. Plus, Romney raised state revenues by hundreds of millions of dollars per year by increasing fees and closing corporate tax loopholes.

Analysis
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney announced his ad attacking Arizona Sen. John McCain Dec. 28. It is set to run in New Hampshire, where the two face each other in the Republican presidential primary scheduled for Jan. 8.

Social Security for Illegal Aliens
In contrasting supposed differences between the two men, the ad's announcer falsely states that McCain "voted to allow illegals to collect Social Security." This tired and misleading claim was used by several Republicans against Democrats in the 2006 elections. We debunked it then, and it is no more true now that it is being used to attack a Republican.


The claim is based on the immigration bill that McCain cosponsored in 2005 and 2006. The bill died, but as we said before, the measure did not propose to pay Social Security benefits to illegal immigrants, not until and unless they become U.S. citizens or are granted legal status. Under current law, illegal immigrants who work and pay Social Security taxes may later receive credit toward future benefits for the amounts they have paid, if they become legal residents or citizens. The McCain measure wouldn't have changed that.

During the immigration fight Republicans proposed an amendment that would have prevented anyone who became a legal immigrant under the McCain bill from receiving credit toward future Social Security benefits for the taxes they paid and the time they had worked while in the U.S. without legal permission. McCain was one of 11 Republicans who voted to kill that amendment.

Thus, the statement that McCain "voted to allow illegals to collect Social Security" is false. Nobody proposed to pay benefits to anyone who is in the U.S. illegally. To be accurate, the ad might have said that McCain "voted against a measure that would have denied illegal immigrants Social Security credit for their work once they gain legal status." But such a truthful statement might not strike New Hampshire voters as so damaging.

"Amnesty" Again
The Romney ad also misleads by using the inaccurate and emotionally laden term "amnesty" to describe what the immigration bill would have offered illegal immigrants. As we've said any number of times, the dictionary definition of "amnesty" is a pardon for past offenses, and the McCain bill did not offer a simple pardon. Rather, it would have imposed thousands of dollars in penalties and fees on any illegal immigrant wishing to gain legal status.

The ad's wording is technically accurate on this score. It says, "He [Romney] opposes amnesty for illegals." What's misleading is the suggestion that McCain embraces "amnesty," when he doesn't. Romney's ad might truthfully have said he currently takes a tougher line on illegal immigrants than does McCain, but characterizing his opponent as favoring "amnesty" isn't accurate.

Also, while the former governor has hardened his stance on immigration, it's worth noting that he once called the legislation for which he now attacks McCain a "reasonable" proposal. In a 2005 interview with the Boston Globe after McCain's bill was introduced, Romney also said he didn't believe the legislation granted "amnesty."

Boston Globe (March 2007): In a November 2005 interview with the Globe, Romney described immigration proposals by McCain and others as "quite different" from amnesty, because they required illegal immigrants to register with the government, work for years, pay taxes, not take public benefits, and pay a fine before applying for citizenship.

McCain's Position
McCain issued a response to the Romney attack, alluding to the somewhat tougher stand on immigration that the senator has embraced since the defeat of his immigration plans. He said he now favors securing U.S. borders and instituting a "temporary worker program" before attempting to deal "comprehensively" with immigrants currently in the U.S. illegally.

John McCain: I'm familiar with tailspins and I think he's [Romney is] in one. Look, on the issue of immigration, my position is clear: We have to secure the borders, the borders have to be secured first. As president I would have the governors in the border states certify that the borders are secure. We learned a lesson and the message is they want the borders secured first. Then we go on to a temporary worker program and addressing the issue
comprehensively.

A Misleading Claim About Taxes
We also find the ad's claim that "Romney cut taxes" to be misleading. It is true that Romney proposed some income tax cuts that the Democratic-controlled Massachusetts Legislature rejected. And he did succeed in cutting some taxes – for example, he enacted property tax relief for seniors and approved business tax credits – but overall tax rates remained the same. The conservative Club for Growth said his term included “some solid efforts” but that “overall, Romney's record on tax policy is mixed.” Indeed, he increased state revenues significantly.

Technically, Romney's often-repeated boast that he didn't raise taxes is true, but it's also misleading, as we discussed in our critique of the second Republican presidential debate back in May. In 2003, to help close a big budget gap, he pushed through a number of increased state fees that brought in $400 million in their first year. For example, he doubled fees for marriage licenses and other court filings. He also quintupled the per gallon delivery fee for gasoline (money that is supposed to be for cleaning up any leaks from underground fuel tanks). Romney also “closed loopholes” in the corporate tax structure, a move that generated another $150 million in increased revenue.

Romney also shifted some of the state tax burden down to the local level, by cutting local aid revenues. The Massachusetts Municipal Association, representing the state's cities and towns, said Romney's cut "forced communities statewide to cut services and raise local taxes and fees." The exact amount of the local increases hasn't been determined, but Romney at least partly avoided increasing state taxes by forcing Massachusetts cities and towns to raise theirs.

http://www.factcheck.org/more_mitt_malarkey.html

[hippie_hunter]

FactCheck.org on Romney's attacks on Huckabee

- Both Romney and Huckabee are "pro-life," which is true now but glosses over Romney's recent conversion.

- Says "the difference" between the two is that Romney "vetoed in-state tuition for illegal immigrants" while Huckabee supported it. But Romney's immigrant-bashing stance is also recent. In 2004 he said, "I hate the idea" of making college unaffordable for children of illegal immigrants.

- Romney "got tough on drugs like meth" while governor of Massachusetts, but the legislation he supported never passed, and his state's laws are much weaker than Arkansas'. Convicted meth dealers face both minimum and maximum prison terms in Arkansas that are four times longer than those in Massachusetts.

- Misrepresents news articles, implying that they supported Romney's actions as governor when that's not what the news organizations said. One article, in fact, gave critical views of Romney's refusal to issue a pardon.

Analysis I
The ad began airing throughout Iowa this week. In form it is a straightforward "comparative" ad, focusing on the two candidates' stands on the issues. But the picture it presents is the result of some political Photoshopping. The result: an ad whose contrasts are far sharper than we see in real life.

In it, an announcer lauds former Massachusetts Gov. Romney and former Arkansas Gov. Huckabee as "two good family men" who are "both pro-life" and oppose same-sex marriage. It says "the difference" between the two is on immigration, reminding voters that Huckabee supported in-state tuition rates for children of undocumented immigrants, and stating that Romney vetoed a similar bill in Massachusetts.

The Minister and the Convert
The ad presents a too-sharp focus at the start when it implies that Romney and Huckabee have identical records on abortion.

Announcer: Two former governors … two good family men … Both pro-life.

It’s true that both Huckabee and Romney oppose abortion – now. But Huckabee was pro-life while he was governor. Romney, not so much. Don’t take our word for it. Here’s Romney at a September debate in Iowa:

Romney: I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice. I’ve said that time and time again. I’ve changed my position.

We don’t begrudge Romney the right to change his mind, and he's been open about the fact that his position has changed. But many Iowa voters may still be unaware of that, and this ad implies that there's no difference between these two candidates on abortion. That's a stretch.

Let Them Pick Lettuce
The second half of the ad contrasts the positions of the two on immigration:

Announcer: Mitt Romney stood up, and vetoed in-state tuition for illegal aliens … opposed driver’s licenses for illegals. Mike Huckabee? Supported in-state tuition benefits for illegal immigrants. Huckabee even supported taxpayer-funded scholarships for illegal aliens.

It's true, as we pointed out previously, that a plan Huckabee supported would have granted in-state tuition rates and eligibility for scholarships to any student who had attended an Arkansas public high school for at least three years, regardless of immigration status. It's also true that Romney vetoed a similar bill in 2004. But Romney’s illegal immigrant bashing is of fairly recent vintage.

In 2004, the Boston Globe reported that Romney was reluctant to veto the tuition proposal – and not at all the certain, sure-footed decision maker portrayed in the ad. At the time, Romney said:

Romney (June 2004): I hate the idea of in any way making it more difficult for kids, even those who are illegal aliens, to afford college in our state. But equally, perhaps a little more than equally, I do not want to create an incentive to do something which is illegal.

Romney wasn't a hardliner on immigration until late in his tenure as governor. As we have written, he took no action to punish the "sanctuary cities" that he now rails against. And while he boasts that he authorized state troopers to enforce federal immigration law, that order came at the end of his term, never went into effect and was overturned by his successor.

None of the specifics presented here are false, but the ad presents a black-and-white contrast that doesn't exist in reality.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/romney_on_huckabee.html

Analysis II
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney announced that the ad would begin airing in Iowa Dec. 17. It's a sequel to an earlier Romney attack on former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee that we reviewed here, and it begins with the same misleading description of similarities between the two before going on the attack with new material.

Injecting Meth into the Campaign
The ad says Romney "got tough on drugs like meth" while Huckabee "even reduced penalties for manufacturing methamphetamine." But wait: While Romney did submit legislation in 2005 that would have broadened state laws against meth production, such as setting sentencing guidelines for possessing various methamphetamine precursor ingredients, this effort to get "tough" failed. That bill died in committee in Jan. 2007.


The legislation Huckabee supported, meanwhile, did shorten the amount of time a convict would have to serve before being eligible for parole from 70 percent of the sentence to 50 percent. But Arkansas has strict meth laws that remain on the books, and they are far tougher than those in Massachusetts. A convicted meth dealer can be sentenced to 40 years in Arkansas, but in Massachusetts the maximum term is 10 years. The mandatory minimum in Arkansas is 10 years in prison, but it's only a two-and-a-half-year state prison term in Massachusetts. And, in fact, the bill this ad criticizes was drafted with the help of Arkansas state prosecutors to help alleviate overcrowding problems in the state penal system.


Here are the details of the state laws: In Arkansas, offenders found guilty of intent to distribute or manufacture while in possession of less than an ounce of meth face a minimum sentence of "not less than ten (10) years nor more than forty (40) years, or life" and a fine "not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000)." In Massachusetts, the penalty for a person convicted of manufacturing, distributing or possessing with intent to manufacture or distribute a substance that contains any quantity of methamphetamine is "a term of imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two and one-half nor more than ten years." A fine of no more than $10,000 may be imposed as well. The legislation Romney backed would not have increased the mandatory minimum, even if it had passed.


One possible reason that Arkansas has far tougher meth laws than Massachusetts is that it has a far larger meth problem: The federal Drug Enforcement Agency counts 407 methamphetamine "lab incidents" in Arkansas in 2006, compared with only one in Massachusetts. The DEA says methamphetamine is Arkansas' "primary drug of concern," while in Massachusetts the drug is "available in limited quantities" and "rarely abused." However, meth is a huge problem in Iowa, where this ad is airing. In 2006, there were 318 meth lab incidents, according to the DEA, down from a high of 1,370 in 2004. Iowa enacted a tough law in 2005 that made it illegal to sell non-prescription pseudoephedrine to a minor or to keep it anywhere but behind a pharmacy counter. Pseudophedrine is found in common over-the-counter medications such as Sudafed and has been widely used to make meth.

Print Your Own Newspaper!
The ad uses news clippings to borrow the independent credibility of newspapers and bolster Romney's claims. However, in several instances, the ad reconstructs the words of the newspapers to distort the original reporting. For instance, it lists the Berkshire Eagle as saying "tough on drugs like meth" on Aug. 15, 2005. But the paper didn't exactly say that. What the paper did say was:

Berkshire Eagle: Legislation filed by Gov. Mitt Romney would heighten the penalties for the possession of methamphetamine as well as toughen penalties for the possession of the chemicals used to produce it.

The newspaper is clearly reporting on the legislation filed. Romney's ad changes the words to make it appear the newspaper is endorsing his effort. Filching the credibility of news organizations is an old trick we've found in past elections here, here and here.

Pardonable Offenses
In another example of skewing the news in his favor, the ad shows a June 12, 2007, Associated Press tagline under the headline "never pardoned a criminal." But the closest the AP article comes to saying that is this:

AP: During the four years Romney was in office, 100 requests for commutations and 172 requests for pardons were filed in the state. All were denied.

The language from the ad appears nowhere in the news article, which is certainly no endorsement of Romney's policies. It actually portrays the governor as unreasonably stubborn. The article focuses primarily on Romney's refusal to pardon National Guard Lt. Anthony Circosta, who had been convicted of assault at age 13 for "shooting another boy in the arm with a BB gun, a shot that didn't break the skin," according to the AP. After returning from duty in Iraq, Circosta wanted to become a police officer but needed to have his childhood charge pardoned first. Romney refused twice, despite the recommendations of the state Board of Pardons.

We're not passing judgment on either governors' record on clemencies, but we take issue with Romney's misleading attempt to claim this news article endorsed his actions. It didn't.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/romney_on_huckabee_ii.html

[Matt]

Romney would win everything if he started getting Bruce Campbell to campaign as his twin and changed his campaign slogan from "Its time for action" to "Hail to the king, baby!"

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/pv/Bruce%20Campbell-1.jpg

http://www.thelugeman.com/Mitt%20Romney%202.jpg



Uncanny! :wow:

[hippie_hunter]

Now for the sake of fairness, McCain's lies about Romney:

- Says Romney's health care program in Massachusetts is "not very good" and "is failing." But official figures indicate that roughly 200,000 previously uninsured residents have gained health coverage, and those persons might disagree.

- Says the Romney plan is costing $400 million more than expected. That's because more people are benefiting than were expected.

- Accuses Romney of proposing $20 billion to Detroit "to bail out the auto industry." Romney actually proposed a $16 billion increase in federal research into "energy research, fuel technology, materials science, and automotive technology."

Analysis
In the past few days, Sen. John McCain's campaign released two ads, one on the Internet and another on the radio in Florida. Both are harshly critical of his rival, Mitt Romney, attacking the health care plan he signed into law as governor of Massachusetts and his economic record. The latest polls show the two Republican presidential candidates in a close battle for GOP voters in Florida, which holds its primary Jan. 29.

'Not Very Good' For Whom?
The Web ad, released Jan. 25, begins by saying it's a "Mitt Romney issue alert," and then disparages the Massachusetts universal health insurance plan, charging that it's "a big government mandate." The McCain camp wraps up its assessment of the plan by saying, quite simply, it's "not very good."

McCain's ad is misleading when it states that "hundreds of thousands of people are uninsured" despite Romney's changes to health care in the state. In fact, hundreds of thousands have gained insurance, too.

Just how many is not certain. There are 300,000 residents who have signed up for health insurance since the plan was put into place in mid-2006. That includes both persons who were previously uninsured and those who may have dropped their coverage in favor of a more desirable plan.

The Commonwealth Connector, an independent entity that was established to implement the state health plan, estimates that "over half" of those who were uninsured before the state plan was launched have gained coverage. That works out to be about 200,000 people, since the Massachusetts Division of Health Care Finance Policy said that 395,000 were uninsured before the plan was put into place. (A more concrete estimate from that state agency should be released in late summer.)

So while McCain is entitled to his opinion when he says the Romney plan is "not very good," we suspect a lot of newly covered residents disagree.

A Health Plan Half-Full
Much of the McCain ad is pure opinion – and there is plenty of that to go around regarding the Massachusetts health care reform. The ad flatly states that the health care plan is "failing," but it seems it's too soon to reach a verdict on the changes Massachusetts has put into place. The plan has been in effect only since June 2006, and details such as the amount of penalty for those who fail to sign up for coverage are still in flux.

Opinion varies widely on the plan's virtues, even among conservatives. The Cato Institute considers it too costly and unlikely to work, and Cato Director of Health Policy Michael F. Cannon frequently criticizes the program on the Cato Institute blog. Meanwhile, the equally conservative Heritage Foundation portrays the Massachusetts plan as a valuable prototype for consumer-driven insurance, citing a 45 percent drop in minimum premium costs and a 34 percent reduction in the uninsured. On the other end of the political spectrum, some universal health care proponents think the plan doesn't go far enough: David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler, cofounders of Physicians for a National Health Program, called Massachusetts' and similar plans "economic nonsense" in a New York Times op-ed.

All sides are free to state their opinions, but they remain opinions. At this stage, it's simply too early to tell who is right. McCain's ad implies that a consensus has already declared that the Romney-backed plan "is failing."

$400 Million Over Budget?
The McCain ad also says that the Massachusetts plan is "$400 million over budget" and that "taxes will be raised in the future to pay for it." McCain's budget figure is correct – and the state would have to come up with the money some way, taxes being a strong possibility. However, one reason the plan has cost more than expected is that many more state residents have signed up for insurance than originally anticipated. "Officials had projected that about 140,000 would enroll in the new state-financed insurance plan ... which provides full or partial subsidies," according to the Boston Globe. "[T]he state is now estimating enrollment will reach 225,000 by June 2009."

One Man's Bail Out...
The McCain campaign is also airing a radio ad in Florida, which says, "Here are some numbers that should scare every Florida Republican" and then lists several Romney-related statistics.

A few of them, however, are misleading or require context. The announcer in the ad says that Romney promised $20 billion to Detroit "to bail out the auto industry on the back of taxpayers." But that $20 billion was what Romney proposed as a "national investment in energy research." Here’s Romney at a Jan. 14 speech to the Detroit Economic Club:

Romney (Jan. 14, 2008): If we're going to be the world's greatest economic power, we also have to invest in the future. It's time for us to be bold. I will make a five-fold increase – from $4 billion to $20 billion – in our national investment in energy research, fuel technology, materials science, and automotive technology. Let's invest in our future.

Perhaps to McCain’s ears that’s a bail out. But the senator has been a strong proponent of pursuing alternative energies in the past – so strong that he proposed the improbable goal of making the country "oil independent" within five years. We didn't let that claim go unchecked, either.

Sticking It to Him
The radio ad also says, "700 million … a tax increase Romney stuck to the people of Massachusetts." We’ve quibbled with this one before. Technically, most of what Romney raised was in the form of fees, not taxes, such as court filings and firearm licensing fees. But he also closed loopholes on corporate taxes. There is disagreement on the total amount as well, with the state Department of Administration and Finance putting the fee total at $260 million a year and the corporate tax change at $174 million a year, and the independent Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation saying both fees and taxes totaled $740 million to $750 million a year.

This point has been grist for both campaigns, as Romney uses the fact that most of the state revenue increases came from "fees" to make the misleading claim that he never raised "taxes."

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain_ads_attack_romney.html

[hippie_hunter]

Romney would win everything if he started getting Bruce Campbell to campaign as his twin and changed his campaign slogan from "Its time for action" to "Hail to the king, baby!"

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/pv/Bruce%20Campbell-1.jpg

http://www.thelugeman.com/Mitt%20Romney%202.jpg



Uncanny! :wow:

The resemblance is scary

http://myclob.pbwiki.com/f/200521111.jpg

[Matt]

The resemblance is scary

http://myclob.pbwiki.com/f/200521111.jpg

I personally am unsure you can NOT support Romney when it increases the odds of Bruce Campbell playing a President in a movie by 85 %. That is the sole reason I am considering supporting Romney.

[hippie_hunter]

I personally am unsure you can NOT support Romney when it increases the odds of Bruce Campbell playing a President in a movie by 85 %. That is the sole reason I am considering supporting Romney.

That's like Excel's support for Obama because he's black :csad:

[Matt]

That's like Excel's support for Obama because he's black :csad:

Well, if Obama were an older black man, I could understand that...as it would mean that Morgan Freeman play him in a movie. As it is, we are probably going to get Jamie Fox or Eddie Murphy...and I'll be damned if I'll support that :cmad: :cwink:

[hippie_hunter]

Wow....Lieberman just stated that he'll continue to endorse McCain if he wins the nomination and will campaign against the Democratic candidate.

[Matt]

Wow....Lieberman just stated that he'll continue to endorse McCain if he wins the nomination and will campaign against the Democratic candidate.

Lieberman is doing it because he can. The Democrats can't say a word to him, because if he decides to jump ship...The Republicans will control Senate. Now if he does get the VP nomination, I expect him to change parties. If he does...then that gives Bush a Republican controlled senate for his last 6 months or so. :wow:

[Matt]

In all honesty, now that I think on it, Lieberman is probably the most powerful man in the Senate. Both parties are kissing his ass like there is no tomorrow as whichever one he caucuses with controls everything. He can pretty much get anything he wants at this moment and neither party would have the balls to tell him no.

[Sloth7d]

Well, if Obama were an older black man, I could understand that...as it would mean that Morgan Freeman play him in a movie. As it is, we are probably going to get Jamie Fox or Eddie Murphy...and I'll be damned if I'll support that :cmad: :cwink:

Didn't Chris Rock already play the President in a movie?

[Matt]

Didn't Chris Rock already play the President in a movie?

Dear Lord...we must vote against Obama to avert such a disaster from ever occuring again!

[Kitsune]

Well, if Obama were an older black man, I could understand that...as it would mean that Morgan Freeman play him in a movie. As it is, we are probably going to get Jamie Fox or Eddie Murphy...and I'll be damned if I'll support that :cmad: :cwink:

Eddie Murphy is getting pretty old by now.

[hippie_hunter]

Since Florida is voting now, I think that this will pretty much be the last poll post:

Insider Advantage
McCain: 31%
Romney: 30%

Survey USA
McCain: 32%
Romney: 31%

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
McCain: 35%
Romney: 31%

Mitchell Research
Romney: 34%
McCain: 32%

RCP Average
McCain: 30.7%
Romney: 30.1%

[Matt]

Since Florida is voting now, I think that this will pretty much be the last poll post:

Insider Advantage
McCain: 31%
Romney: 30%

Survey USA
McCain: 32%
Romney: 31%

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
McCain: 35%
Romney: 31%

Mitchell Research
Romney: 34%
McCain: 32%

RCP Average
McCain: 30.7%
Romney: 30.1%

Looks like it could really go either way. Reuters/C-Span/Zogby are the only ones who have McCain with a dominant lead (and Zogby is overrated. He got lucky once and suddenly thinks he is God's gift to pollsters :cmad:) Its gonna be fun to watch how it unfolds.

[hippie_hunter]

Current Results

Republican Party - 76% reporting
John McCain - 36% PROJECTED WINNER!
Mitt Romney - 31%
Rudy Giuliani - 15%
Mike Huckabee - 14%
Ron Paul - 3%
Fred Thompson - 1%
Duncan Hunter - 0%

Democratic Party - 76% reporting
Hillary Clinton - 50% PROJECTED WINNER!
Barack Obama - 33%
John Edwards - 14%
Dennis Kucinich - 1%

[hippie_hunter]

Also Giuliani's campaign is officially finished. CNN has projected that he will NOT win and that he was a horrible candidate.

[The Senator]

*Prays for a Romney win*

[hippie_hunter]

For some reason I picture Norman being at a Romney rally :(

[hippie_hunter]

Reports are now coming in the Giuliani is expected to drop out and endorse McCain.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Just what's so bad about McCain?

He's proven that he's willing to work with the Democrats. He has appeal to moderates and independents. He firmly believes in protecting the enviroment. He wants to cut government spending which will help with America's deficit problems. And he's probably the only candidate that can competently run Iraq.

He feels like another Bush,and will destory America even further.

Whats wrong with McCain? He has proven that he is nothing more than a party lackey. Back in 2000, McCain was this cool outsider who didn't take **** from anyone. Which is exactly why the GOP destroyed his candidacy. They ran ads claiming he was the father of illigitiment children and went crazy during his time in POW camps and still is. Those attacks in 2000 were ridiculously below the belt. Yet he stayed loyal. That is what concerns me about McCain. Instead of rebelling against the party who did that to him, he bends over and continues to take it from them. He conformed to be what they wanted. He let them win and became their lap dog. I don't want a man like that as my President.

Fantastic post.

[hippie_hunter]

*Prays for a Romney win*

It's looking very doubtful now. McCain's lead is growing now and over half the vote is in.

[hippie_hunter]

CNN has projected that John McCain as the winner of the Florida primary.

[hippie_hunter]

He feels like another Bush,and will destory America even further.



Fantastic post.

Oh please. You have this pathetic bias that all Republicans are evil and will "destroy" America.

Even though he sucked up to the GOP to try and get the nomination in 2008 he still proved that he's willing to work with the Democrats, still supports efforts to protect the enviroment, criticized the failures of Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq, supports reasonable and fair immigration reform, supports campaign finance reform, etc.

[hippie_hunter]

NBC News has projected John McCain as the winner of the Florida Primary.

[hippie_hunter]

CBS News has projected John McCain as the winner of the Florida Primary.

[Matt]

CNN has projected that John McCain as the winner of the Florida primary.

Big loss for Romney.

[hippie_hunter]

ABC News and Fox News have projected John McCain as the winner.

[The Senator]

Lieberman is doing it because he can. The Democrats can't say a word to him, because if he decides to jump ship...The Republicans will control Senate. Now if he does get the VP nomination, I expect him to change parties. If he does...then that gives Bush a Republican controlled senate for his last 6 months or so. :wow:

Lieberman said today that he won't accept the VP offer from McCain, and that he plans to remain a Democrat through the remainder of his term in the Senate.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/01/joey.html

[Matt]

Lieberman said today that he won't accept the VP offer from McCain, and that he plans to remain a Democrat through the remainder of his term in the Senate.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/01/joey.html

Hmm, interesting. Still, I wonder if he will actually turn it down if it is offered to him. Its ones thing to say no in a hypothetical. Quite another to say no when you are face to face with it. As for staying Democrat...I imagine he will as long as they tread a fine line around him. But if they piss him off.....

[Kel]

CNN just projected McCain to win........Guiliani is out I suspect......damn spent all that money in one state to come in a very distant 3rd.....wow.

[Matt]

Giuliani has been out for weeks. The biggest loss is for Romney. This could really hurt him for Super Tuesday and end his candidacy.

[Kel]

Yeah......but it was more of a have to win for McCain than Romney.....McCain had to win for the money.......Romney can still put out another 15 million of his own money before Super Tuesday and still be ok......


as for Guiliani, I meant as in "I'm out....." on his part.....not just in reality, but in his reality....

[The Senator]

After his concession speech... I'm a bit more disgusted by Mr. Romney than I ever thought I could be. Except for the obvious jab at John McCain. He just came off really smarmy and fake fake fake.

[hippie_hunter]

Giuliani knows that he's out. His campaign is currently having discussions with the McCain campaign over him dropping out and giving him Giuliani's endorsement, which would certainly give him a good boost in New York and New Jersey.

[The Senator]

Is Giuliani dropping out, or is he just reading his entire campaign platform verbatim?

[hippie_hunter]

After his concession speech... I'm a bit more disgusted by Mr. Romney than I ever thought I could be.

Yeah, he looked like he was going to cry at one part, arrogantly says that before someone has babies they gotta get married, and just lists the stereotypical "change" message thats getting old and repetitive.

Oh well, his campaign is over now too. He no longer has the lead in delegates and he will lose to McCain in large delegate states California, New York, New Jersey, etc.

[hippie_hunter]

Is Giuliani dropping out, or is he just reading his entire campaign platform verbatim?

He's expected to drop out. Possibly as early as tomorrow.

[The Senator]

He's expected to drop out. Possibly as early as tomorrow.

He's dropping out tomorrow and will endorse McCain at the Reagan Presidential Library in California.

[hippie_hunter]

Here's the surprising thing. McCain won among voters who saw the economy as the #1 issue.

And I think that this proved just like in Iowa and New Hampshire that having the most money will not guarantee you a victory.

[Purple Prancer]

I knew I forgot to do something today :csad:

Hippie fix your sig :cmad:

[rdh007]

McCain sucks. He was a lot cooler in 2000.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/mccain_bush-hug-713122-1.jpg
Feel the love.

[Shifty]

I personally am unsure you can NOT support Romney when it increases the odds of Bruce Campbell playing a President in a movie by 85 %. That is the sole reason I am considering supporting Romney.

Ooo I can't wait for the "Who Let The Dogs Out?" scene!

McCain sucks. He was a lot cooler in 2000.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/mccain_bush-hug-713122-1.jpg
Feel the love.

The TV Funhouse from 2004 (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://video.lisarein.com/tvfunhouse/tvfunhouse-1-sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/002211.php&h=240&w=320&sz=44&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=95naPCYs8df7XM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtv%2Bfunhouse%2Bmccain%26svnum%3D10%2 6hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official) with McCain losing his mind supporting Bush.

[StorminNorman]

I have to ask...

How, in a CLOSED PRIMARY does a man score less of the Republican vote than another candidate and walk away with the nomination?

Its....mind boggling.

[rdh007]

Katherine Harris is still in charge?

[hippie_hunter]

I have to ask...

How, in a CLOSED PRIMARY does a man score less of the Republican vote than another candidate and walk away with the nomination?

Its....mind boggling.

Because the independent and moderate votes are the most powerful in this nation. McCain knows how to properly capture it. That's why he got the nomination, and that's why he'll win this election if Hillary Clinton gets nominated.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Oh please. You have this pathetic bias that all Republicans are evil and will "destroy" America.

Even though he sucked up to the GOP to try and get the nomination in 2008 he still proved that he's willing to work with the Democrats, still supports efforts to protect the enviroment, criticized the failures of Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq, supports reasonable and fair immigration reform, supports campaign finance reform, etc.

They are,let's see...Republicans under Bush have...increased National Debt,destroyed America's global reputation,started the useless War in Iraq,denied a Universal Health Care system,and even with all this McCain wants to stay in Iraq. If this is not destroying,then tell me what is. Common sence,look around you. Or are you one of those who pretend everything is ok when your paying more for gas,or are worred about your house being taken away from you?

[Kel]

Because the independent and moderate votes are the most powerful in this nation. McCain knows how to properly capture it. That's why he got the nomination, and that's why he'll win this election if Hillary Clinton gets nominated.


Yes we are.....AND DAMN PROUD OF IT........:o :cwink: :woot:

[hippie_hunter]

They are,let's see...Republicans under Bush have...increased National Debt,destroyed America's global reputation,started the useless War in Iraq,denied a Universal Health Care system,and even with all this McCain wants to stay in Iraq. If this is not destroying,then tell me what is. Common sence,look around you. Or are you one of those who pretend everything is ok when your paying more for gas,or are worred about your house being taken away from you?

The Republican Party is an organization. It doesn't have feelings or do horrible things. It's the people who happen to be Republicans that do it. The Democrats are just as responsible for our National Debt. George Bush's foreign policy was what damaged America's global reputation. George Bush started this pointless war in Iraq. Universal health care blows that was one of the things the Republicans are doing right.

I look around, but I don't blame the Republicans. I don't see everything as all honkey dorey and great because things need to get fixed. I blame George Bush for our foreign policy blunders and Iraq. I blame the greedy oil companies for the high gas prices. And it's the home owners own fault for the housing crisis for buying homes that they obviously could not afford.

McCain, while he supports the Iraq War which I do oppose, gives me the feeling that he could bring us victory in Iraq, which George Bush could not. He criticized the Bush Administration, particularly Donald Rumsfeld, for their faulty handling of it. He supported the surge because we went into Iraq with not enough men, and while it's not a huge success like McCain says it is, it certainly isn't a complete and total failure like some make it out to be and is somewhat working.

So how about you stop acting like an idiotic jackass with your pathetic "Republicans are teh evil' and see things for how they actually are. It's both the Republicans and Democrats fault for how things are in this nation. And it's not the party's fault, it's the idiots in charge.

[kronos251]

... And it's the home owners own fault for the housing crisis for buying homes that they obviously could not afford.

That, and it is mostly Ben Bernanke's fault. He should not have abruptly raised the interest rates to an almost whopping 6 % a year ago. Interest rates are what caps the entire US economy, and unlike his predecessor, Alan Greenspan, he should have graduated the rate to stave off inflationary symptoms. If ever he might want to tackle the housing sector, limit the problem to the housing sector only. He has a point though - Real estate value has gone ridiculously far up on account of oil, labor wage hikes, and rising advertising costs. He must deal with Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, as they are responsible for the lending and mortgage loans. The ongoing FBI investigation on fraudulent firms are imperative and should be done regularly. I do look forward to a rate cut as soon as possible, and should go down to a good 3 % to make up for losses.


As for McCain, I'm glad he won Florida, and yes, more work still has to be done.
As for Bush, I wouldn't want to blame him so much, as Id like to keep an open mind to all statesmen past and present, and what long-term impact they effect.

[Malice]

I may refinance my house once the rate drops below what I am paying...
I am paying only 5.75%...lets see if I can get that even lower.

[kronos251]

5.75 %.... :/ The rates should go lower.. Otherwise, there'll be an angry mob at his door, me included.