EVERYTHING moving left?

[Malice]

I wanted to see what everyone thought on this.
(please note, this is not a punch at anyone, just an observation)

You all know the typical "rating" is
Socialism (far left) - Liberal - Middleroad - Conservative - far right raddical (cant think of the name)

Years ago, a Democrat was typically a Liberal
Republicans were listed as Conservatives and then you had the looney's who on the far left and far right)

Does it see to others that they entire group (asside from a few) has moved on step left?

Almost all the Democrat candidates are Socialists and most of the Republicans are "Middleroaders"

Does everyone else see this?

[hippie_hunter]

I don't see it that way. Obama and Clinton are leftists. Edwards acts more like a Socialists. Huckabee, Thompson are conservatives. McCain is a moderate conservative. Giuliani is a liberal in several aspects but conservative in others. Romney poses as a conservative.

[hippie_hunter]

And the extreme far right is facism.

[Malice]

And the extreme far right is facism.

Thank you...I was brain farting and couldnt think of it...

[The Senator]

Well, traditionally, American politics has been positioned dead in the center. We will never be as liberal as France, or as conservative as Iran.

I believe that while there are many Democrats moving towards socialism, there are plenty who will stay in the center. Just look at the new wave of Senators and Congressmen elected in 2006. Jon Tester, Sherrod Brown, Jim Webb, and Claire McCaskill are fairly moderate Democrats. Mark Warner, if he wins next year, will also continue in the center-left tradition.

Democrats have moved left on issues such as Health Care, taxes, the environment and foreign policy issues.

Conservatives, on the other hand, are far more questionable. The party is divided among ideologues and centrists. Aside from a few politicians, though--notably John McCain, Olympia Snowe, and Sue Collins-- I can't think of many who have stuck to the middle. Certain factions of the party are becoming more and more right-wing. Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo represent this trend on issues such as illegal immigration and gay marriage.

I think the rhetoric has taken American politics to the left, but individual actions and agendas have kept both parties exactly where they have been for the past decade or so.

[Malice]

I don't see it that way. Obama and Clinton are leftists. Edwards acts more like a Socialists. Huckabee, Thompson are conservatives. McCain is a moderate conservative. Giuliani is a liberal in several aspects but conservative in others. Romney poses as a conservative.

All three of the major Dems - Obama, edwards and clinton are all far left...they want the government to get involved in everyway to pay for stuff...that is by definition socialist..

McCain is moderate and G is both left and right...but moderate on average
Thomson and Huckabee and Romney are all conservative..

Maybe the left is just getting "lefter" and the right may not be moving farther left as fast..
I have physically talked to numerous people and they thought this was "generally right"

Just thought I would ask and see what you thought

[rdh007]

I see everything moving right, frankly. Obama and Clinton are both supporters of raping the American worker in the name of profit. For Zod's sake, the Republicans' second place candidate wants to rewrite the Constitution to include more scripture-like pharases.

"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards," Huckabee said, referring to the need for a constitutional human life amendment and an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

Huckabee often refers to the need to amend the constitution on these grounds, but he has never so specifically called for the Constitution to be brought within "God's standards," which are themselves debated amongst religious scholars. As a closing statement he asked the room of nearly 500 supporters to "pray and then work hard, and in that order," to help him secure a victory in Tuesday's GOP primary.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/15/579265.aspx

This, of course, is not truly conservative. Ron Paul's the only real conservative in the race. Funny that you (Malice) mention the people you speak with who support this idea. Turns out all the people I speak with see it much differently. Huh.

[Malice]

I see everything moving right, frankly. Obama and Clinton are both supporters of raping the American worker in the name of profit. For Zod's sake, the Republicans' second place candidate wants to rewrite the Constitution to include more scripture-like pharases.



This, of course, is not truly conservative. Ron Paul's the only real conservative in the race. Funny that you (Malice) mention the people you speak with who support this idea. Turns out all the people I speak with see it much differently. Huh.

That is kinda funny isnt it.
The perception of us all is much different.

[StorminNorman]

All three of the major Dems - Obama, edwards and clinton are all far left...they want the government to get involved in everyway to pay for stuff...that is by definition socialist..

McCain is moderate and G is both left and right...but moderate on average
Thomson and Huckabee and Romney are all conservative..

Maybe the left is just getting "lefter" and the right may not be moving farther left as fast..
I have physically talked to numerous people and they thought this was "generally right"

Just thought I would ask and see what you thought

Huckabee is not conservative really. Personally - maybe (issues such as Gay Rights, Abortion, etc.) but on real Government stances, he is fairly liberal.

[StorminNorman]

This, of course, is not truly conservative. Ron Paul's the only real conservative in the race. Funny that you (Malice) mention the people you speak with who support this idea. Turns out all the people I speak with see it much differently. Huh.

Ron Paul really isn't a conservative by the true meaning of the word.

Conservatism is the following of "gradual change" and favors "tradition".

If Ron Paul was running in the early 1800's - then yes, he would of been Conservative. In today's age - he is simply a Strict Constitutionalist.

Not that I dislike that. I have great respect for Dr. Paul.

[Venom'sDad]

I wanted to see what everyone thought on this.
(please note, this is not a punch at anyone, just an observation)

You all know the typical "rating" is
Socialism (far left) - Liberal - Middleroad - Conservative - far right raddical (cant think of the name)

Years ago, a Democrat was typically a Liberal
Republicans were listed as Conservatives and then you had the looney's who on the far left and far right)

Does it see to others that they entire group (asside from a few) has moved on step left?

Almost all the Democrat candidates are Socialists and most of the Republicans are "Middleroaders"

Does everyone else see this?
Yes, I do... brilliant observation. Btw, I would call it Moderate instead of middleroad. :up:

I wouldn't just call the extreme right-wing Facism... that can apply to both sides.

Facism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
The philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
A fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

[EdRyder]

I thought it was interesting when during the second CNN/youtube debate , all but one of the Democratic candidates(Kucinich)answered they wouldnt refer to themselves as a 'liberal' if they were asked.
As if somewhere over the past 6 years that became a bad word
They all went with "progressive",.. Except for Denny who was proud to say Liberal,..;)

[cookiva]

All three of the major Dems - Obama, edwards and clinton are all far left...they want the government to get involved in everyway to pay for stuff...that is by definition socialist..

McCain is moderate and G is both left and right...but moderate on average
Thomson and Huckabee and Romney are all conservative..

Maybe the left is just getting "lefter" and the right may not be moving farther left as fast..
I have physically talked to numerous people and they thought this was "generally right"

Just thought I would ask and see what you thought


I for one do not agree. Obama and Clinton talk as if they are far left, but in practice, are not. Edwards, however, is pretty far left. Giuliani, while being socially liberal in some aspects, is an extreme facist in others. McCain is the closest candidate to a moderate in this election.

[cookiva]

Yes, I do... brilliant observation. Btw, I would call it Moderate instead of middleroad. :up:

I wouldn't just call the extreme right-wing Facism... that can apply to both sides.

Facism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
The philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
A fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Then how about we consider the same thinking to communism. Fascism is far right, socialism is far left.

[The Senator]

Then how about we consider the same thinking to communism. Fascism is far right, socialism is far left.

Actually, communism is far left. Socialism is just left of center-left.

France is socialist, China is communist. Fascism is what you'd find in North Korea.

[bell110]

When you have 8 years of George "God-told-me-to-invade-Iraq" Bush, I think it's only natural the publics moving to the left.

[SentinelMind]

We're becoming more big government will solve all your problems...

more government solutions to healthcare, social security, etc..

more theocratic interpretations of our Constitution

national ID, more consolidation of executive branch and expansion of military industrial complex...

more government watching and controlling you...

[wiegeabo]

Here's a quiz for everyone to try. For me, at least, it seems accurate enough, even though I think there should be more questions.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html


One thing that I've noticed to be true is that the terms liberal and conservative tend to be assigned based on where a person lies on social issues.

Look at it this way, let's assume being conservative means you approve of strong government, governmental protection, governmental control, or whatever you want to call it. And being liberal means you prefer smaller government, the 'freedom' to make personal choices, allowing more 'radical' ideas, or whatever you want to call it.

In this way, Republicans (typical example of conservatives) are indeed conservative on social issues and 'traditional' values. But they're actually quite liberal on the economy (minimum government interference, regulation, taxation).

On the other hand, Democrats (typical example of liberals) are indeed liberal on social issues and letting people choose how 'traditional or non-traditional' they live their lives. But they're actually quite conservative on the economy (high taxation/government spending, strict regulation of business).


Basically, I see the political spectrum as more two-dimensional. Instead of Socialist-liberal-middle road-conservative-Facist, I see it this:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/lp.png

or, if you prefer the more buzzword version

Anarchist
|
Libertarian
|
Socialist-Liberal-Centrist-Conservative-Fascist
|
Authoritarian
|
Totalitarian


(wish I could make the text diagram line up better :()

[Arkady Rossovich]

Well, traditionally, American politics has been positioned dead in the center. We will never be as liberal as France, or as conservative as Iran.

Sort of ironic when America says it's the land of "freedom". Only when others think it's socially acceptable.

:lips:

[cookiva]

Here's a quiz for everyone to try. For me, at least, it seems accurate enough, even though I think there should be more questions.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html


One thing that I've noticed to be true is that the terms liberal and conservative tend to be assigned based on where a person lies on social issues.

Look at it this way, let's assume being conservative means you approve of strong government, governmental protection, governmental control, or whatever you want to call it. And being liberal means you prefer smaller government, the 'freedom' to make personal choices, allowing more 'radical' ideas, or whatever you want to call it.

In this way, Republicans (typical example of conservatives) are indeed conservative on social issues and 'traditional' values. But they're actually quite liberal on the economy (minimum government interference, regulation, taxation).

On the other hand, Democrats (typical example of liberals) are indeed liberal on social issues and letting people choose how 'traditional or non-traditional' they live their lives. But they're actually quite conservative on the economy (high taxation/government spending, strict regulation of business).


Basically, I see the political spectrum as more two-dimensional. Instead of Socialist-liberal-middle road-conservative-Facist, I see it this:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/lp.png

or, if you prefer the more buzzword version

Anarchist
|
Libertarian
|
Socialist-Liberal-Centrist-Conservative-Fascist
|
Authoritarian
|
Totalitarian


(wish I could make the text diagram line up better :()

That is actually a horrible quiz. There are more than 10 questions needed to decipher what you are, as far as beliefs go.

[hippie_hunter]

Yes, I do... brilliant observation. Btw, I would call it Moderate instead of middleroad. :up:

I wouldn't just call the extreme right-wing Facism... that can apply to both sides.

Facism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
The philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
A fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Actually you're thinking of totalitarianism which can be applied to both the left and the right. Facism specifically applies to the far right wing while communism specifically applies to the far left wing.

[wiegeabo]

That is actually a horrible quiz. There are more than 10 questions needed to decipher what you are, as far as beliefs go.

Whether or not the question are enough or valid, the ideas behind the structure of the results are. Like I said, for me, this quiz work well enough. I always tend to score in the same general area.

But I wouldn't mind if the quiz had more questions, say around 30. 3 general sections on economics, 3 on social issues, with 5 question in each. That's probably a fair range for a 'basic' quiz.

[cookiva]

30 I would say minimum for a basic quiz...

[The Senator]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I hope this helps.

[wiegeabo]

I've taken that one before.

But now I have to take it again because it was so long ago.

[bell110]

What a surprise, I'm a libertarian.

[cookiva]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I hope this helps.

Did this last night, basically right at Ghandi's spot under the left libertarian section.

[Argyle of Sock]

I wanted to see what everyone thought on this.
(please note, this is not a punch at anyone, just an observation)

You all know the typical "rating" is
Socialism (far left) - Liberal - Middleroad - Conservative - far right raddical (cant think of the name)

Years ago, a Democrat was typically a Liberal
Republicans were listed as Conservatives and then you had the looney's who on the far left and far right)

Does it see to others that they entire group (asside from a few) has moved on step left?

Almost all the Democrat candidates are Socialists and most of the Republicans are "Middleroaders"

Does everyone else see this?

Au contraire. It's true that in the early '80's and before "a Democrat was typically a Liberal [and] Republicans were listed as Conservatives." It was with Reagan that the whole spectrum shifted a couple steps to the right. If it is true that it's shifitng left, it's only shifting back to where it was "years ago."