Who here besides me thinks this is going to suck?

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I'm a fan of the 90's cartoon and while some storylines didn't work (should've kept GG dead and not have him go through some wormhole or endless limbo) others were perfect (I could name a list of them.)

This new show however looks once again aimed at the little tots. By season 3, "The Batman" actually started getting good but it's still far from what "BTAS" was---adult-oriented and probably the best adaptation of Batman since "BB."

I hate the look of the characters. They seem Playskoolish as if they hired a 10 year-old to come in and draw Spider-Man characters all day. I thought this show was going to be based off of the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. When did all of sudden they changed course and said, "Let's make a different Spider-Man show."

The second thing I hate is they're actually calling it "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and they're giving him webbing underneath his arms. I ALWAYS hated the webbing because Spidey didn't need it if he could swing, glide, swoop, somersault, etc. in mid-air while shooting webs.

The third and final thing is, it seems to be when Marvel ever attempts to bring back old cartoons it seems to fall flat. Don't get me wrong I liked "X-Men Evolution" but it wasn't the 90's show, "FF4" got a new anime-look but it still didn't do much, and now we're getting a new Spider-Man show which to me it seems Marvel is doing as a cop-out so kids, adults, and fans can hold on till the 4th movie EVER comes out.

Least "Wolverine & the X-Men" looks like it'll be a prayer answered.

[Spider-ManHero12]

The show is meant to be like the Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita Sr. days. That is one of the things that will most likley make this show great and the art Awesome, It's just the way Cheeks draws. As for the webs, he had them when he first appeared. They defenitley looked great on him.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Although, Lee/Ditko/Romita/Conway/Kane/Andru never had Venom.
I don't want Venom in it till the end of season 2 or sometime in season 3, season 1 is way too early for a Venom story.

[weezerspider]

I can see why you might be worried. The only advice I can give you is, wait until March and watch it and see if its good for yourself.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Although, Lee/Ditko/Romita/Conway/Kane/Andru never had Venom.
I don't want Venom in it till the end of season 2 or sometime in season 3, season 1 is way too early for a Venom story.the 90's series had him in Season 1 and it worked out just fine. That season was only 13 episodes while this series first season is 26 eps.

[Venomfan]

This new show however looks once again aimed at the little tots. By season 3, "The Batman" actually started getting good but it's still far from what "BTAS" was---adult-oriented and probably the best adaptation of Batman since "BB."

the 90's TAS was aimed at kids too. it's just better since you were a kid then. but yes i think the art in this show does suck(as does every superhero cartoon these days)

[Arcturus]

the 90's series had him in Season 1 and it worked out just fine. That season was only 13 episodes while this series first season is 26 eps.

Exactly!

Personally, I think this new series will be successful, of course we wont know that until it actually airs.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Yea, but in the 90's show, he was Spidey for a long time before the show started, and this one is only a few weeks/months.

I thought Venom was done well in the 90's toon, but also too early.

They said that this is going to be like the Lee/Ditko/Romita era - they never had Venom, so why put him in so early?

[Green Goblin 1964]

Yea, but in the 90's show, he was Spidey for a long time before the show started, and this one is only a few weeks/months.

I thought Venom was done well in the 90's toon, but also too early.

They said that this is going to be like the Lee/Ditko/Romita era - they never had Venom, so why put him in so early?
KAAAA-CHIIING!

http://2make-money.biz/images/money344.jpg

It's for the money but it doesn't mean they won't do a bad job on the character either.

[Ratcrawler]

My biggest qualm with the 90s show was the overt mushiness of the romantic angles. They all seemed to fall in love too easily. The sad irony is that nowadays, you get garbage like Robin/Starfire "SHE'S NOT MY GIRLFRIEND!!!" childishness.

The Batman's probably a Eunuch...

They need to adapt the Peter/MJ relationship from Ultimate sPider-Man. It's a realistic look at teenaged relationships minus the Degrassi drama and not sappy enough to really turn anyone away.

I just hope nobody ever says. "I 'like you' like you." I 'hate that' hate that. v_v

[diespinne]

I like the stylized character designs on this show-- I thought the 90's show looked bland and uninspired. Already, the animation looks WAY smoother than the 90's show, and Spidey actually looks like he'll be doing something other than hanging around getting his webline broken while his co-stars do all the butt-kicking for him.

[Visionary]

It is aimed at kids, I thought everyone knew this.

Saturday morning cartoon + Spider-Man = kids.

It's funny, when I wanted an R-rated Spider-Man movie, soft-hearted fanboys rejected the idea. They're making a freakin' Saturday morning cartoon, now people want Spider-Man's toon to be adult-oriented...join the club. If they can't make the movie adult-oriented, how the hell are they going to make a cartoon show? It has always been the curse of Spider-Man outside the funny books, the more money he makes, the more they want him to appeal to kids. As I have always said, Spider-Man is a victim of his own success.

[CaptainStacy]

I'm a fan of the 90's cartoon and while some storylines didn't work (should've kept GG dead and not have him go through some wormhole or endless limbo) others were perfect (I could name a list of them.)

This new show however looks once again aimed at the little tots. By season 3, "The Batman" actually started getting good but it's still far from what "BTAS" was---adult-oriented and probably the best adaptation of Batman since "BB."

I hate the look of the characters. They seem Playskoolish as if they hired a 10 year-old to come in and draw Spider-Man characters all day. I thought this show was going to be based off of the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. When did all of sudden they changed course and said, "Let's make a different Spider-Man show."

The second thing I hate is they're actually calling it "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and they're giving him webbing underneath his arms. I ALWAYS hated the webbing because Spidey didn't need it if he could swing, glide, swoop, somersault, etc. in mid-air while shooting webs.

The third and final thing is, it seems to be when Marvel ever attempts to bring back old cartoons it seems to fall flat. Don't get me wrong I liked "X-Men Evolution" but it wasn't the 90's show, "FF4" got a new anime-look but it still didn't do much, and now we're getting a new Spider-Man show which to me it seems Marvel is doing as a cop-out so kids, adults, and fans can hold on till the 4th movie EVER comes out.

Least "Wolverine & the X-Men" looks like it'll be a prayer answered.

To me, it sounds like you're already set in your ways in regards to what works for you and what doesnt. You mention The Batman and right away compare it to Batman: TAS. You've alreay set the show up in your mind as a failure, in that regard. Especially if you are looking for the new stuff to somehow re-capture happy moments from your past.

This is not a put-down in anyway, just an observation...

[CaptainStacy]

I'm a fan of the 90's cartoon and while some storylines didn't work (should've kept GG dead and not have him go through some wormhole or endless limbo) others were perfect (I could name a list of them.)

This new show however looks once again aimed at the little tots. By season 3, "The Batman" actually started getting good but it's still far from what "BTAS" was---adult-oriented and probably the best adaptation of Batman since "BB."

I hate the look of the characters. They seem Playskoolish as if they hired a 10 year-old to come in and draw Spider-Man characters all day. I thought this show was going to be based off of the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. When did all of sudden they changed course and said, "Let's make a different Spider-Man show."

The second thing I hate is they're actually calling it "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and they're giving him webbing underneath his arms. I ALWAYS hated the webbing because Spidey didn't need it if he could swing, glide, swoop, somersault, etc. in mid-air while shooting webs.

The third and final thing is, it seems to be when Marvel ever attempts to bring back old cartoons it seems to fall flat. Don't get me wrong I liked "X-Men Evolution" but it wasn't the 90's show, "FF4" got a new anime-look but it still didn't do much, and now we're getting a new Spider-Man show which to me it seems Marvel is doing as a cop-out so kids, adults, and fans can hold on till the 4th movie EVER comes out.

Least "Wolverine & the X-Men" looks like it'll be a prayer answered.

To me, it sounds like you're already set in your ways in regards to what works for you and what doesnt. You mention The Batman and right away compare it to Batman: TAS. You've alreay set the show up in your mind as a failure, in that regard. Especially if you are looking for the new stuff to somehow re-capture happy moments from your past.

This is not a put-down in anyway, just an observation...

[UltimateJustin]

The only thing I would be worried about is if the art style is just too stupid for you to take. I think its going to be a pretty classy show, it wont be adult oriented, but it shouldnt be so painfully silly as to make it impossible to watch, either. Try to get used to the dumb chartacter designs and you might enjoy it. Or, you could just cry about it.

[Green Goblin 1964]

The only thing I would be worried about is if the art style is just too stupid for you to take. I think its going to be a pretty classy show, it wont be adult oriented, but it shouldnt be so painfully silly as to make it impossible to watch, either. Try to get used to the dumb chartacter designs and you might enjoy it. Or, you could just cry about it.*sigh* I don't really see what all the fuss is over the character designs...There not THAT bad. They are no where near bordering cartoons like IDK Spongebob or something. They are not nearly as exaggerated. So I don't understand all the b****ing especially since they are similar to the source material in terms of design except for maybe Vulture's headgear and Venom's spider :whatever:





QUIT YOUR WHINING:o:cmad::oldrazz:

[UltimateJustin]

*sigh* I don't really see what all the fuss is over the character designs...There not THAT bad. They are no where near bordering cartoons like IDK Spongebob or something. They are not nearly as exaggerated. So I don't understand all the b****ing especially since they are similar to the source material in terms of design except for maybe Vulture's headgear and Venom's spider :whatever:





QUIT YOUR WHINING:o:cmad::oldrazz:
In other words, its not Teen Titans, so relax.

[weezerspider]

But lets be honest, there will come a moment down the road where they will really **** up a character. Electro and Vulture's changes have been welcome, but if we get a movie GG...... Oh God

[vinny2]

I didn't think the movie GG was all that bad, but I suppose it didn't feel like GG to me. I want this show to keep the suit as it is, but in a way that it doesn't make Norman look like some deranged child molester. (Yes, GG's costume looks like a child molester.)

[Ratcrawler]

Riddle me this; If the show was gonna suck then why would they call it The sPectacular sPider-Man?

[SalaciousVC]

Geeze,Ninjaturtlefan,you say TDK'S Joker Sucks,you Say TDK'S Two-Face sucks,Now you say the Spectacular Spiderman cartoon is gonna suck,Is there anything you think isn't gonna "suck"?:oldrazz:

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Geeze,Ninjaturtlefan,you say TDK'S Joker Sucks,you Say TDK'S Two-Face sucks,Now you say the Spectacular Spiderman cartoon is gonna suck,Is there anything you think isn't gonna "suck"?:oldrazz:

There's a difference between suck and not liking something. I don't like the changes Nolan has made to the Batman movies but I accept them because they're not big changes. Sure, both his changes go against canon, the mythos, and continuity, but still nonetheless he has pretty much stayed true to some of the comics. I'm fine with him going with the storylines of "The Long Halloween" and "Joker's 5-Way Revenge" but still nonetheless I don't care for Nolan always having to make every single thing realistic.

Here, with the new Spider-Man series I find it to be unnecessary. I would've rather Marvel continued the MTV series than this. That series, while imperfect, had potential and it was cancelled too soon. It was as close as we got to the movies, not to mention, I loved the look of it and the episodes were more adult-oriented. Sure, the romance of it was cheesy but it still wasn't as bad as "Spider-Man Unlimited" as some make it out to be.

As for my reasons why I don't think this'll be good, they stand for themselves. I'm a fan of the old show, while I'll maybe watch an episode of this or two and make my final judgment, I don't think this'll have the same effect as the other series. Same as like when the new "He-Man" show came on or the new "Ninja Turtles" show came on, people who were fans of the older series weren't accepting of the newer ones. I think really Marvel is only releasing this and making this show just so they can get more money, to least hold onto the old Spider-Man fans who got turned off by movie 3, and lastly because Spider-Man 4 is probably a year or 2 away so it's kind of a 'fill the void and save the waiting.'

If some of you like this show than fine, but like with the Batman forums or wherever you'll have people or fans who won't like everything that is changed or renewed or whatever. As every director of a superhero movie or television show has said, "Fans are the hardest to please." It's true because we are a majority and we don't like our voices to be met as a minority. While some fans will like something, others won't. That's our world. That's our society. Some will hate others will love. And the rest will have their convictions.

Me I'm a comic-book purist to some length. I can handle some changes and differing ideas from whether it'd be writers, artists, directors, actors, etc. but like I said I may not like some things but others I might. That's the beauty of being a fan really.

[CaptainStacy]

There's a difference between suck and not liking something. I don't like the changes Nolan has made to the Batman movies but I accept them because they're not big changes. Sure, both his changes go against canon, the mythos, and continuity, but still nonetheless he has pretty much stayed true to some of the comics. I'm fine with him going with the storylines of "The Long Halloween" and "Joker's 5-Way Revenge" but still nonetheless I don't care for Nolan always having to make every single thing realistic.

Here, with the new Spider-Man series I find it to be unnecessary. I would've rather Marvel continued the MTV series than this. That series, while imperfect, had potential and it was cancelled too soon. It was as close as we got to the movies, not to mention, I loved the look of it and the episodes were more adult-oriented. Sure, the romance of it was cheesy but it still wasn't as bad as "Spider-Man Unlimited" as some make it out to be.

As for my reasons why I don't think this'll be good, they stand for themselves. I'm a fan of the old show, while I'll maybe watch an episode of this or two and make my final judgment, I don't think this'll have the same effect as the other series. Same as like when the new "He-Man" show came on or the new "Ninja Turtles" show came on, people who were fans of the older series weren't accepting of the newer ones. I think really Marvel is only releasing this and making this show just so they can get more money, to least hold onto the old Spider-Man fans who got turned off by movie 3, and lastly because Spider-Man 4 is probably a year or 2 away so it's kind of a 'fill the void and save the waiting.'

If some of you like this show than fine, but like with the Batman forums or wherever you'll have people or fans who won't like everything that is changed or renewed or whatever. As every director of a superhero movie or television show has said, "Fans are the hardest to please." It's true because we are a majority and we don't like our voices to be met as a minority. While some fans will like something, others won't. That's our world. That's our society. Some will hate others will love. And the rest will have their convictions.

Me I'm a comic-book purist to some length. I can handle some changes and differing ideas from whether it'd be writers, artists, directors, actors, etc. but like I said I may not like some things but others I might. That's the beauty of being a fan really.


So basically what you're saying is; you expect the movies and toons to follow and translate the comics to the letter, basically telling the exact same story over and over again...just in different forms of media?

[Green Goblin 1964]

So basically what you're saying is; you expect the movies and toons to follow and translate the comics to the letter, basically telling the exact same story over and over again...just in different forms of media?LAME :o

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Same as like when the new "He-Man" show came on or the new "Ninja Turtles" show came on, people who were fans of the older series weren't accepting of the newer ones.

I grew up with both of the original TMNT and He-Man 'toons.
I like the new TMNT (except the theme, Fast Forward theme was better, but not as good as the 80's theme.) and the new He-Man.

[Ratcrawler]

I guess there's just something to be said about the original He Man and that is that it was, in fact, original. Sure, it's sole purpose was to market anatomically questionable action figures but considering it pretty much came out of nowhere in the 80s, it demanded attention. But in this new millenium, we had action/adventure/scifi/fantasy cartoons out the wazoo ranging from teenaged superheroes to to superpowered pets. He-Man, didn't really even seem to have a comprehensible backstory. They're the Masters of the Universe but they pretty much sPend all their time f-ing around on Eternia which is...a planet? And they all have dumb powers but rely on a strong guy with a magic sword to save them from a purple skeleton whose just sort of evil for the hell of it.

[spida-man]

I think this cartoon is going to rock, i am a fan of the 90's series to, but i think this one has potentia and could possibly be better than the 90's series, and yea the series is still based off of Ultimate spider-Man but at the same time it is based off of the original comics. it's like a mixture. honestly some ppl have such stupid pissy fits everytime something new is being done.

[UltimateJustin]

I guess there's just something to be said about the original He Man and that is that it was, in fact, original. Sure, it's sole purpose was to market anatomically questionable action figures but considering it pretty much came out of nowhere in the 80s, it demanded attention. But in this new millenium, we had action/adventure/scifi/fantasy cartoons out the wazoo ranging from teenaged superheroes to to superpowered pets. He-Man, didn't really even seem to have a comprehensible backstory. They're the Masters of the Universe but they pretty much sPend all their time f-ing around on Eternia which is...a planet? And they all have dumb powers but rely on a strong guy with a magic sword to save them from a purple skeleton whose just sort of evil for the hell of it.
The new toys were sexually gratifying though.

[Ratcrawler]

Mmmmm...Teela...

[NinjaTurtleFan]

So basically what you're saying is; you expect the movies and toons to follow and translate the comics to the letter, basically telling the exact same story over and over again...just in different forms of media?

:huh: :nono: *Smacks head* Ok, let me try and explaining myself in lamens' terms: The Spider-Man movies. Spider-Man 1 is pretty faithful to the comics. The only things that were changed was GG's suit along with not giving Pete webshooters (which in my opinion wouldn't have worked.)

Spider-Man 2- Changes were making Ock sympathetic, not giving him an accent, not giving him a suit (which would've been dumb to see on the movie screen) but overall the movie was faithful to the comics.

Spider-Man 3 - Changes were made to the black suit, changes were made to Venom's suit, Sandman stayed the same but was made more sympathetic and given a backstory and some inner angst that is all because of a run-in with Pete's Uncle, but overall these changes, the movie was once again faithful to the comics.

Like I said, I don't mind few changes to things but like with TDK, the two villains as of now just don't do it for me in the look. Heath has accomplished capturing Joker's whimsy spirit, personality, humor, and violent streak but the look is what gets my goat. Nolan says they wanted to make him as the makeup is deteoriating and always runny to show that even Joker's soul is deteoriating inside him; as if he is sooo far gone.

Great, that's fine if you want to go with some symmetry and symbolism, but still nonetheless why the makeup anyways? That's what always worried me at the end of "BB"---How can you redo The Joker? The plot and story they got for him works but Joker HAS and ALWAYS will be a perma-white serial-killing mass-murdering-thief and anarchist who plays by his own rules and reasons. I would've been A.O.K. with Nolan making him just an albino but he didn't even do that. Now, we get a guy who looks like he designed his own Halloween costume or looks like an emo-Crow-looking clown.

Then, there's Two-Face. He's suppose to be "split right down the middle." One side whole, fleshy, and preserved; the other horribly burnt that it's beyond repair. Now, we get a Two-Face that is burnt on one side but not "split right down the middle." Those two sides of him are suppose to be his yin and yang, his black and white, his id and ego, his Jekyll and Hyde, yet the burns aren't full so it looks like his yin is overpowering his yang. I'm sure Aaron however will capture like Heath his spirit, personality, etc. but still the look will just not do it for me. I'll still enjoy the film overall but those two characters will just not be the same for me.

With that being said, getting back to the subject, I can handle changes but my heart will always be faithful to the comics. I know alot of you will like this show and that's fine, good for you, but me I've made my mind up.

[CaptainStacy]

Sounds like it. :yay:

[Spider-ManHero12]

[/B][/B]I think this cartoon is going to rock, i am a fan of the 90's series to, but i think this one has potentia and could possibly be better than the 90's series, and yea the series is till based off of Ultimate Spider-Man but at the same time it is based off of the original comics. it's like a mixture. honestly some ppl have such stupid pissy fits everytime something new is being done. Actually, it's not really based off of Ultimate Spider-Man that much. There's only a few things in the show that may have aspects from Ultimate Spider-Man, but overall, the show is defenitley mainly based of of the classic Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita Issues. :yay:

[Dangerous]

I don't like the art direction on this new show, Spidey's head look like a frikin beachball.
I shall however reserve judgment until I have watched a few episodes.

[Visionary]

So basically what you're saying is; you expect the movies and toons to follow and translate the comics to the letter, basically telling the exact same story over and over again...just in different forms of media?Most of the time, Marvel simply doesn't do that. Marvel loves change, fans don't. I just find it hilarious that fanboys of Marvel for years, sometimes decades, hasn't figured this out yet. You don't like it, don't buy or watch it, either way, Marvel ain't changing what they like to do with their characters. Notice that I said "THEIR" characters.

[diespinne]

I don't like the art direction on this new show, Spidey's head look like a frikin beachball.
I shall however reserve judgment until I have watched a few episodes.

Nah... but your avatar looks like a beachball! :cwink:

[The Villain]

As long as the writers don't allow Kingpin to grace every episode then I think this series will be fine.

The Kingpin was my only dislike of the 90's eps and that one episode where he threatened Doc Ock to work with him that made me really :bh: angry.

Please don't let him be the main enemy of nearly every episode I thank you storywriters.

:cmad:

[CaptainStacy]

Most of the time, Marvel simply doesn't do that. Marvel loves change, fans don't. I just find it hilarious that fanboys of Marvel for years, sometimes decades, hasn't figured this out yet. You don't like it, don't buy or watch it, either way, Marvel ain't changing what they like to do with their characters. Notice that I said "THEIR" characters.

I agree completely.

[Sarcastic Fan]

As long as the writers don't allow Kingpin to grace every episode then I think this series will be fine.

The Kingpin was my only dislike of the 90's eps and that one episode where he threatened Doc Ock to work with him that made me really :bh: angry.

Please don't let him be the main enemy of nearly every episode I thank you storywriters.

:cmad:

No worries for you then, Kingpin is not in the series. Fox has the license for him, Sony does not.

[CaptainStacy]

No worries for you then, Kingpin is not in the series. Fox has the license for him, Sony does not.

Yet Sony used him in the MTV series.

Go figure. :yay:

[Dangerous]

Nah... but your avatar looks like a beachball! :cwink:

Ha, that's true!

[The Villain]

No worries for you then, Kingpin is not in the series. Fox has the license for him, Sony does not.

I don't totally dislike Kingpin and don't mind if he appears in say one or two eps.

He'll probably turn up at somepoint since I heard Hammerhead is meant to be featured more prominant in the series.

:grin:

[0neDisturbedSOB]

:huh: :nono: *Smacks head* Ok, let me try and explaining myself in lamens' terms: The Spider-Man movies. Spider-Man 1 is pretty faithful to the comics. The only things that were changed was GG's suit along with not giving Pete webshooters (which in my opinion wouldn't have worked.)

Spider-Man 2- Changes were making Ock sympathetic, not giving him an accent, not giving him a suit (which would've been dumb to see on the movie screen) but overall the movie was faithful to the comics.

Spider-Man 3 - Changes were made to the black suit, changes were made to Venom's suit, Sandman stayed the same but was made more sympathetic and given a backstory and some inner angst that is all because of a run-in with Pete's Uncle, but overall these changes, the movie was once again faithful to the comics.

Like I said, I don't mind few changes to things but like with TDK, the two villains as of now just don't do it for me in the look. Heath has accomplished capturing Joker's whimsy spirit, personality, humor, and violent streak but the look is what gets my goat. Nolan says they wanted to make him as the makeup is deteoriating and always runny to show that even Joker's soul is deteoriating inside him; as if he is sooo far gone.

Great, that's fine if you want to go with some symmetry and symbolism, but still nonetheless why the makeup anyways? That's what always worried me at the end of "BB"---How can you redo The Joker? The plot and story they got for him works but Joker HAS and ALWAYS will be a perma-white serial-killing mass-murdering-thief and anarchist who plays by his own rules and reasons. I would've been A.O.K. with Nolan making him just an albino but he didn't even do that. Now, we get a guy who looks like he designed his own Halloween costume or looks like an emo-Crow-looking clown.

Then, there's Two-Face. He's suppose to be "split right down the middle." One side whole, fleshy, and preserved; the other horribly burnt that it's beyond repair. Now, we get a Two-Face that is burnt on one side but not "split right down the middle." Those two sides of him are suppose to be his yin and yang, his black and white, his id and ego, his Jekyll and Hyde, yet the burns aren't full so it looks like his yin is overpowering his yang. I'm sure Aaron however will capture like Heath his spirit, personality, etc. but still the look will just not do it for me. I'll still enjoy the film overall but those two characters will just not be the same for me.

With that being said, getting back to the subject, I can handle changes but my heart will always be faithful to the comics. I know alot of you will like this show and that's fine, good for you, but me I've made my mind up.

Spider-Man 3 was faithful to the comics?? Did we see the same movie. Last time I checked Harry became the Green Goblin, not this New Goblin bulls**t. I also don't remember Sandman being linked to Ben's murder, and I don't ever recall Venom being killed off by a pumpkin bomb. Oh, and wasn't there something called the Secret Wars that was responsible for the symbiote? In Spider-Man 3 it just happened to rocket to Earth unnoticed by anyone and land right next to Peter Parker who just happens to be a super powered hero.

Hmmmm....using Spider-Man 3 as an example for ANY discussion that has the word "faithful" in it is a poor choice in my opinion.

The Joker in TDK looks f**king fantastic. Having a guy fall into a vat of acid (which would melt your skin not to mention kill you almost instantly) and have him emerge with bleached skin and a permanent smile is absurd. This is 2008 not 1988, people are smarter and they expect more.

[Dangerous]

Spider-Man 3 was faithful to the comics?? Did we see the same movie. Last time I checked Harry became the Green Goblin, not this New Goblin bulls**t. I also don't remember Sandman being linked to Ben's murder, and I don't ever recall Venom being killed off by a pumpkin bomb. Oh, and wasn't there something called the Secret Wars that was responsible for the symbiote? In Spider-Man 3 it just happened to rocket to Earth unnoticed by anyone and land right next to Peter Parker who just happens to be a super powered hero.

Hmmmm....using Spider-Man 3 as an example for ANY discussion that has the word "faithful" in it is a poor choice in my opinion.

The Joker in TDK looks f**king fantastic. Having a guy fall into a vat of acid (which would melt your skin not to mention kill you almost instantly) and have him emerge with bleached skin and a permanent smile is absurd. This is 2008 not 1988, people are smarter and they expect more.

^See, now I was with you up until you got onto TDK.

SM3 was a stinky turd, plus the villains back story's were significantly different from their comic counterparts making them inferior. However- the same can be said for Ledger Joker. Don't get me wrong- BB was far superior to any Raimi Spider-Man film and I fully expect TDK to be amazing also, but this does not validate Goyer/Nolan changing the Joker to being none-permawhite. In one crucial aspect it already makes him an inferior Joker to say, Nicholson-Joker. Perhaps overall his performance will be better than Jack's and he will be the best live action version thus seen, but it won't change the fact that a big part of this character interpretation is wrong.

The bleached white skin is one of Mr J's key defining traits.

You say people 'expect more in 2008'? Well that's BS- This is a comicbook movie! It's most enthused audience are those that read Batman comics. These are the people that wanted him to be permawhite. What they 'expect' is for him to have acid bleached skin.

Beyond that- the rest of TDK's audience is regular action movie fans who could not give two s-hits if he gets bleached. Fact remains- TDK Joker would have been FAR superior if he was permawhite. Why is this so?- Because NO ONE would be complaining about him being bleached since that's who the Joker is. As apposed to HALF of Bat-fans at the hype being against his non bleached skin (see poll in Bat Spoilers).

Additionally- your attitude of 'people expect more in 2008' and also bringing real life logic into your argument when talking about a comic (how acid would burn off skin) is in direct contradiction to your standpoint on SM3 suffering due to it being none faithful to the source.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

Here's the difference...

Spider-Man's universe is made up of super powered beings. Spider-Man himself is a super powered being so taking liberties with the characters is a lot harder to do than with someone like Batman. Batman is a regular guy in a suit. People *****ed about them putting armor on him, well, he needs the armor. Sure I think what they did with him in the Keaton-Schumacher films was pretty out there, but at least the concept of the suit made sense. A guy with no powers runs around fighting crime...he's going to need protection. What fans had to say was that they were "ruining" Batman by protecting him...blah blah blah. They wanted a movie with a hero running around in spandex because it was "faithful" to the comics. That makes no sense to me.

In Spider-Man's case the biggest liberty they took was switching from web-shooters to organics. Once again geeks (I use that as a term of endearment) were up in arms that this change was not only going to ruin the movie, but was going to ruin the character itself. 5-6 years after the first Spider-Man movie was released, barely anyone even brings it up anymore. Why? Because it made sense in the context of the movie.

People (fans and general audience) are drawn to these movies because they take our beloved characters and add a sense of realism to them...which in turn draws us in because it gives us something to relate to. When asked why he made the decision to switch from web-shooters to organics Raimi said something along the lines of "come on, a kid is going to create a super powered adhesive in his bedroom that a company like 3M hasn't been able to create? It just takes away from the realism of the film" and he was absolutely right. When most fans heard that it's as if they were insulted because now he was taking away from Parker's genius. Excuse me, but at no point during any of these films (except for the Emo parts) did I feel as if Peter's intellect had been tampered with....but people still wanted to complain. These are the same people who lined up countless times to see the movie, bought every edition of the DVD, and regard Spider-Man as one of the best comic book movies of all time. Funny how that works.

Same thing with X-Men. When it was shown that Wolverine's claws were going to pop out from in between his knuckles fans once again jumped up and accused the film makers of tampering with perfection. In an interview Singer defended his decision by once again saying "it doesn't make sense" which he's right. Anatomically it doesn't work for those claws to come out from the back of his hand, they'd have to come out from in between the knuckles in order for a straight blade to be housed in your forearm, but once again fans got "offended" because such a change was surely going to ruin the movie and the character of Wolverine. 7-8 years after the first X-Men was released you don't even hear a think about it....except for those same people carrying on about how much better the in between claws are.

Now you go to the Joker. A sadistic man who dresses up like a clown and is dead set on causing anarchy all over Gotham. Sounds pretty absurd to me, but even still should all logic be thrown out because we're dealing with a "fantasy movie"? Hardly.

Look at how Bruce Wayne became Batman in "Batman Begins" he didn't lock Alfred in the cave and say "make me a suit" instead he used bits and pieces of technology from Wayne Enterprises as the basis of the Bat-suit. Last time I checked this was a MAJOR deviation from the original story....but people didn't seem to mind. Why? because it MADE SENSE. It was FAR more realistic for Bruce to incorporate things already made from Wayne Enterprises into his design for what would become the Bat-suit. Same thing can be said of the car. In the comics doesn't he create every single interpretation of the Batmobile? In "Batman Begins" he takes the Tumbler and modifies it...because it makes sense.

Now you get geeks already complaining about the Joker because he isn't "permawhite" who cares? Does it mean the Joker isn't going to be sick, sadistic, and twisted? Hardly. In my opinion it makes him MORE sick, sadistic, and twisted because he has to sit there and put that on himself...thus adding to the fact that he's a few crayons short of a full box. Much like how serial killer John Wayne Gacey dressed as a clown to gain a child's trust in order to lure them away and kill them....it's the thought process of these people that truly makes them what they are. I look at it like this. "Permawhite" Joker's skin is white all over, so it's like "hey, my skin is white like a clown, might as well play the part." TDK's Joker has to apply the make-up by himself, thus he makes the decision to look like that (except for the chelsea grin which I think is genius). It's in the same vein of Bruce Wayne making the decision to become Batman and continue on doing what he does knowing that at any given time he could be killed. Joker making the decision to turn his face into a disgusting clown is FAR more chilling than a Joker who basically has no choice. Read up on serial killers and mass murders and you'll find that the majority of them killed out of a compulsion, like something was forcing them to do it, but it was their DECISION in how to commit the murders that is really frightening.

The whole "it's a comic book movie!" argument has never made sense to me at all. It's like saying "just because it's a comic book movie we should excuse all of the realism and logic" which is BS. Think about it, if all of those things that fans *****ed about in every comic book movie were taken out in place of things that were 100% faithful to the comics, these movies would not be what they are today. Web-shooters? Claws that come from the back of the hand? Grown men and women running around in yellow/blue spandex? etc, etc.

Saying a movie "would have been" so much better simply because the main villain's skin is bleached white (by acid no less) is pretty absurd. You haven't even seen the movie, or Ledger's performance, yet you're already condemning it because the character's history isn't 100% ripped from the comics. Sounds like a case of judging a book by it's cover if you ask me.

But here's the REALITY of the situation. No matter what you do, or how faithful you are to the comic books people will ALWAYS find something wrong with it. As a film maker you have to take this into account. It's impossible to please all of the people all of the time, so what you do is you try to make the best decisions for the context of your movie. The relaunch of Batman was done because the previous movies had become FAR too absurd, so they grounded it in reality....and people ate it up. So if you're trying to continue that same formula for "The Dark Knight" why would you throw something as ridiculous as "acid bleaching my skin" in there? It makes NO sense, and doesn't have any place in a movie that is trying to be as realistic as possible while still remaining faithful to the source material?

And my argument with Spider-Man 3 wasn't that it wasn't faithful because quite frankly the whole "Secret Wars" thing just wouldn't work in a Spider-Man movie. My biggest complain was that the film maker's lack of enthusiasm for the characters and story was blatant, and when it comes to that point I'd say it's time to hand the reigns off to someone else who actually cares. I could make the same argument with X-Men 3. Too much was attempted simply because it was billed as "the last one" which is crap.

[IamProdigy]

I really enjoyed the first season of the 90s Spider-Man series, but when the other seasons got arc titles and when they made him become the Man-Spider, I just wasn't enjoying it(and don't get me started about the different portals, et cetera).

Plus, the 'series' finale wasn't satisfying to me and neither was its follow-up, Spider-Man Unlimited...

and seeing as how Spider-Man 3 wasn't that great of a movie, I have all hope for this new series, especially seeing the red/black Vulture, which to me, looks much cooler and also the way the pace is on the show, I really want this to be a huge hit.

[0neDisturbedSOB]

I agree with you. I really liked the 90's Spider-Man until they started doing the whole portal thing too. I'm also one of the few people who enjoyed the MTV Spider-Man show for what it was. Sure the stories weren't groundbreaking, but the animation was top notch and the cast was great.

I have high hopes for "The Spectacular Spider-Man."

[IamProdigy]

I have only seen a little of the MTV Spider-Man, or whatever it was really called, but it didn't seem to fit together as a piece...the episodes I did see, the over-looking story of the series just didn't go along nicely like the 90s series actually did, and that's why I also hope this new series, when it has arcs and what not, have them go smoothly throughout the series.

[The Villain]

I really enjoyed the first season of the 90s Spider-Man series, but when the other seasons got arc titles and when they made him become the Man-Spider, I just wasn't enjoying it(and don't get me started about the different portals, et cetera).

Plus, the 'series' finale wasn't satisfying to me and neither was its follow-up, Spider-Man Unlimited...

and seeing as how Spider-Man 3 wasn't that great of a movie, I have all hope for this new series, especially seeing the red/black Vulture, which to me, looks much cooler and also the way the pace is on the show, I really want this to be a huge hit.

Agree aswell.

Just WHAT did they do to Electro? This villain could easily have had a great origin ep for series 1. I never liked the Spider Slayer 2 eps story and Electro could have appeared then.

Him being the son of Red Skull was just as worse than having Sandman be Uncle Bens killer.

I did like the Prowler ep but again its always the Bl**dy Kingpin pulling the tricks.

How do you think Mysterio will appear revamped or classic costume?

:cmad:

[vinny2]

Agree aswell.

Just WHAT did they do to Electro? This villain could easily have had a great origin ep for series 1. I never liked the Spider Slayer 2 eps story and Electro could have appeared then.

Him being the son of Red Skull was just as worse than having Sandman be Uncle Bens killer.

I did like the Prowler ep but again its always the Bl**dy Kingpin pulling the tricks.

How do you think Mysterio will appear revamped or classic costume?

:cmad:

A little change here and there won't hurt, but I will personally kick Greg Weisman in the shin in Mysterio doesn't have the fishbowl helmet.

[Sarcastic Fan]

A little change here and there won't hurt, but I will personally kick Greg Weisman in the shin in Mysterio doesn't have the fishbowl helmet.

Grow up, threatening physical violence over something as petty as this is immature and should be left in Third Grade.

[vinny2]

Excuse me, some of us here actually know the man and don't like seeing him threatened like this.

Grow up, threatening physical violence over something as petty as this is immature and should be left in Third Grade.

Uh, this has been happening all day to me. I'm sorry. I guess my sarcasm doesn't come out very easily in my words. My bad.

:bow:

(In case you're wondering, the smiley above me is representative of me bowing down to you in apology. Once again, by bad!)

EDIT: You're probably gossiping about me right now and haven't even seen my apology yet. Well, if anything good came out of this, at least Mr. Weisman said my name. (Okay, yes, technically it's just my username, but it's pretty damn close to my name to I'm counting it!)

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Spider-Man 3 was faithful to the comics?? Did we see the same movie. Last time I checked Harry became the Green Goblin, not this New Goblin bulls**t. I also don't remember Sandman being linked to Ben's murder, and I don't ever recall Venom being killed off by a pumpkin bomb. Oh, and wasn't there something called the Secret Wars that was responsible for the symbiote? In Spider-Man 3 it just happened to rocket to Earth unnoticed by anyone and land right next to Peter Parker who just happens to be a super powered hero.

Hmmmm....using Spider-Man 3 as an example for ANY discussion that has the word "faithful" in it is a poor choice in my opinion.

The Joker in TDK looks f**king fantastic. Having a guy fall into a vat of acid (which would melt your skin not to mention kill you almost instantly) and have him emerge with bleached skin and a permanent smile is absurd. This is 2008 not 1988, people are smarter and they expect more.

I said there were changes made in Spider-Man 3---sorry I didn't get into specifics as you did. Yeesh.

[Visionary]

Calm yourselves, before I kick you both in your faithful asses.

You people have your heads to far into the funny books, if you don't want something different, movie or cartoons, then stick with the comics by not watching it. Batman and Spider-Man films are absurd, it's just fanboys are the only idiots that try to justify its absurdity. :dry:

[Shin-Natsume]

i havent ready any of this, except the first page... excuse me for that please...
however, i think this will suck aswell...

i name a few reasons:
aimed at kids. the 90ys show was aimed at kids aswell, and while htere wre soem great episodes, the best ones were when spidey was about being an adult. the kids stories sucked. all of them.

greg wiseman. i love what he did on gargoyles, but that was also his baby. and except the batman, i havent watched anything from him, but the batman sucks. the villians are written porly, without any motivation whatsoever and batman is written liek he has no clue whatsoever.

the character design. i hate the modern cartoons character designs. why cant they just quit with this "it needs to be hip and anime like" attitude. give me my good designs back. compare that to the designs from the 90ys show. sure, they had some terrible deisgn choices back then, but at least the style was okay. i dont want my spider-man looking like a wisecracking 10 year old with a balloon as a head, thin like having bulemia. the girls also look like anorexia patients...

the premise. adapting classic comics with a twist of new into 26 stand allone episodes. seen that, done that, next. why dont they just focus on making a good show instead reusing the same plots over and over again?

the vocies and music. from what i heard and saw thus far, they will suck. spidey sounds like on crack, and the music is that strange mix between get lost and **** of synthie crap. at least its better than the mtv show music...


those are of course only my personal thoughts. i will watch the show, and who knows, maybe i am wrong? i was wrong TWICE already, both times including spider-man (feature knows) so maybe i am wrong a third time?

[Green Goblin 1964]

i havent ready any of this, except the first page... excuse me for that please...
however, i think this will suck aswell...

i name a few reasons:
aimed at kids. the 90ys show was aimed at kids aswell, and while htere wre soem great episodes, the best ones were when spidey was about being an adult. the kids stories sucked. all of them.

greg wiseman. i love what he did on gargoyles, but that was also his baby. and except the batman, i havent watched anything from him, but the batman sucks. the villians are written porly, without any motivation whatsoever and batman is written liek he has no clue whatsoever.

the character design. i hate the modern cartoons character designs. why cant they just quit with this "it needs to be hip and anime like" attitude. give me my good designs back. compare that to the designs from the 90ys show. sure, they had some terrible deisgn choices back then, but at least the style was okay. i dont want my spider-man looking like a wisecracking 10 year old with a balloon as a head, thin like having bulemia. the girls also look like anorexia patients...

the premise. adapting classic comics with a twist of new into 26 stand allone episodes. seen that, done that, next. why dont they just focus on making a good show instead reusing the same plots over and over again?

the vocies and music. from what i heard and saw thus far, they will suck. spidey sounds like on crack, and the music is that strange mix between get lost and **** of synthie crap. at least its better than the mtv show music...


those are of course only my personal thoughts. i will watch the show, and who knows, maybe i am wrong? i was wrong TWICE already, both times including spider-man (feature knows) so maybe i am wrong a third time?He wrote like 7 episodes of The Batman and those few eps are thought of as some of the best in the whole series. For example...

Artifacts(Personal Favorite): http://www.tv.com/the-batman/artifacts/episode/869514/summary.html?tag=ep_list;ep_title;6
Score: 9.5 Superb 90 votes

The Everywhere man:http://www.tv.com/the-batman/the-everywhere-man/episode/869511/summary.html?tag=ep_list;ep_title;3
Score: 9.3 Superb 75 votes

The Rubberface of Comedy(Personal Favorite):http://www.tv.com/the-batman/the-rubberface-of-comedy-1/episode/390099/summary.html
Score: 8.8 Great 108 votes

The Big Chill( I agree this wasn't his best but hey, not everything can be perfect): http://www.tv.com/the-batman/the-big-chill/episode/366296/summary.html
Score: 8.1 Great 106 votes

Strange Minds: http://www.tv.com/the-batman/strange-minds/episode/415725/summary.html
Score: 9.2 Superb 84 votes

Clayface of Tragedy( another personal favorite): http://www.tv.com/the-batman/clayface-of-tragedy-2/episode/392610/summary.html
Score: 9.0 Superb 107 votes

Meltdown: http://www.tv.com/the-batman/meltdown/episode/415123/summary.html
Score: 8.9 Great 96 votes

Like I said on The Batman he has only done these 7 episodes and all of them were from good-excellent. So he should not be the one to blame for The Batman's lack in success.

So you want cool designs like this?
http://i2.iofferphoto.com/img/1163750400/_i/15304119/1.jpg

Yeah, well then the cartoon's animation will be as slow as...
http://www.waynet.org/waynet/spotlight/2004/images/07/turtle640.jpg

Nuff said :o and I disagree it doesn't look like anime but that discussion's for another day.

They are reusing the exact same plots? When did they say that? There goal is to take things and make Peter a 16 year old in high school which has NEVER been done in animated form,yet. That's the whole reason they decided to to do it, so then he isn't in college like the rest of TAS out there.

The voices and music is your own issue. Someone's stuck in the 90's :whatever:

Just wait until you watch the show, that's all I can do for ya...

[Dangerous]

In Spider-Man's case the biggest liberty they took was switching from web-shooters to organics. Once again geeks (I use that as a term of endearment) were up in arms that this change was not only going to ruin the movie, but was going to ruin the character itself. 5-6 years after the first Spider-Man movie was released, barely anyone even brings it up anymore. Why? Because it made sense in the context of the movie.

Anything can make sense in the context of a scene in a film that the scriptwriter created. E.g.- In Spider-Man 2002- Peter gets bitten by a genetically modified Spider which grants him his powers. This makes sense because he was viewing genetically modified spiders as apposed to a demonstration in radiology where in by chance a spider becomes irradiated and then bites him. People don't bring up the movie organics anymore because it's old news, it was that or nothing, fans came to terms with it. That don't mean it was not a bad decision. It was.


Now you go to the Joker. A sadistic man who dresses up like a clown and is dead set on causing anarchy all over Gotham. Sounds pretty absurd to me, but even still should all logic be thrown out because we're dealing with a "fantasy movie"? Hardly.

I never said 'all logic should be thrown out', they are your words.
In order to try and diffuse my argument and validate yours, you over exaggerate an aspect of something I touched upon to make my outlook seem misguided. It's a common angle taken by posters on here, either that or you genuinely mis interpreted some issues I highlighted. Superhero comics are fantastical,- but still logical in terms of interactions between characters.


Look at how Bruce Wayne became Batman in "Batman Begins" he didn't lock Alfred in the cave and say "make me a suit" instead he used bits and pieces of technology from Wayne Enterprises as the basis of the Bat-suit. Last time I checked this was a MAJOR deviation from the original story....but people didn't seem to mind. Why? because it MADE SENSE. It was FAR more realistic for Bruce to incorporate things already made from Wayne Enterprises into his design for what would become the Bat-suit. Same thing can be said of the car. In the comics doesn't he create every single interpretation of the Batmobile? In "Batman Begins" he takes the Tumbler and modifies it...because it makes sense.

Sure it made sense for Bruce to use WE backlog of military suits and weaponry, but it would have made just as much sense for him to out source and pick the stuff up some other way and design/craft the suit with Alfred. I'm not saying there was anything wrong with the way it was done in the film. How he got his Bat suit / weapons is not that important, the fact that he has them is.
It's a crucial part of his identity. Just like However the Joker might have fallen into an acid bath in different versions of Batman over the years- that bit is not important. What is important is that he has bleached skin. His bleached white skin is a crucial part of his identity. It's not something he can take off, that's who he is.

I think in that respect, his bleached skin is like a mirrored version of Batman's costume.
Batman's costume is not really a suit he dons- it's who he really is, he has no choice- He is Batman. Bruce Wayne is the costume.
In the same way- the Joker has no point of consideration either- his bleached white skin symbolizes his totalitarian view on the world.
He is the Joker- 100% nut job psycho and it cannot be wiped away like make up.


Now you get geeks already complaining about the Joker because he isn't "permawhite" who cares?

Like I said- about half of the Bat-fans on these boards.
A good percentage of which are hardcore fans.
Obviously FOR YOU it is not a big deal, but that does not mean that it is not a big deal.


Does it mean the Joker isn't going to be sick, sadistic, and twisted? Hardly. In my opinion it makes him MORE sick, sadistic, and twisted because he has to sit there and put that on himself...thus adding to the fact that he's a few crayons short of a full box.

No it just means they missed the point in one aspect of the Joker.
There is nothing sick or sadistic about putting on make up. Heck every dumbass teen goth does it.
As the Joker is intended to be- Permawhite- Now that, is damn freaky and scary too.


I look at it like this. "Permawhite" Joker's skin is white all over, so it's like "hey, my skin is white like a clown, might as well play the part."

Well, you are looking at him wrong.
Joker is a psychopath, simple as.
Their is no consideration on his part about the way he is verses established normality.
He can only be one way.
His permawhite skin is just a really creepy and unique way of representing this visually.

TDK's Joker has to apply the make-up by himself, thus he makes the decision to look like that (except for the chelsea grin which I think is genius).

It's in the same vein of Bruce Wayne making the decision to become Batman and continue on doing what he does knowing that at any given time he could be killed.

Putting make up on is a similar decision to the choice Batman makes to fight crime?
No, the bleached skin is the perfect mirror to Batman as I have previously explained.
For neither of them is it a choice, it is who they are.


Joker making the decision to turn his face into a disgusting clown is FAR more chilling than a Joker who basically has no choice.

Like I said earlier- Joker's state of mind is just set one way.
It's not like he has choice or not, it's just who he is.
The bleached skin is the perfect visual representation of this- it is bizarre and freaky as hell- like him, and it is permanent.


Read up on serial killers and mass murders and you'll find that the majority of them killed out of a compulsion, like something was forcing them to do it, but it was their DECISION in how to commit the murders that is really frightening.

Sure, how they choose to kill someone is interesting, but it is beside the point.
The point is- they kill, and that is all, nothing else.
That's the interesting part for me- the way their brains work.
They are on a setting that we can't comprehend.
Joker's bleached skin is a great visual metaphor for this.


The whole "it's a comic book movie!" argument has never made sense to me at all. It's like saying "just because it's a comic book movie we should excuse all of the realism and logic" which is BS.

No it's not like saying that, it's like saying- 'because it's a comic book movie I think we should stick to the things that define these characters.'


Saying a movie "would have been" so much better simply because the main villain's skin is bleached white (by acid no less) is pretty absurd. You haven't even seen the movie, or Ledger's performance, yet you're already condemning it because the character's history isn't 100% ripped from the comics. Sounds like a case of judging a book by it's cover if you ask me.

I'm not judging the film- I think the it will be great- look at my sig. However the fact remains that since this version of the Joker is missing his signature bleached white skin, he is already inferior in one way to all previous live action incarnations. Get it right.


But here's the REALITY of the situation. No matter what you do, or how faithful you are to the comic books people will ALWAYS find something wrong with it.

That's a pretty generalized and worthless comment.
FACT IS- making Joker non permawhite is a pretty damn big deviation from the source. Sure it does not change his personality, but the uniqueness and creepiness of him having bleached white skin is integral to his visual identity, even more so than the purple suits, and it is also a great metaphor for his state of mind- like Batman he is locked onto one path and there is no escape. It is a compulsion to do what he does, and there is no way he could be anything else. It is not a mask that paints onto his face, that can sweat off.


And my argument with Spider-Man 3 wasn't that it wasn't faithful because quite frankly the whole "Secret Wars" thing just wouldn't work in a Spider-Man movie.

It actually would if we got a Spider-Man film that dropped us into the film mid way through Spidey's career and then the Secret War was referred to through flashbacks over a short period of time to recount how the symbiote was brought back to Earth.

[CaptainStacy]

Anything can make sense in the context of a scene in a film that the scriptwriter created. E.g.- In Spider-Man 2002- Peter gets bitten by a genetically modified Spider which grants him his powers. This makes sense because he was viewing genetically modified spiders as apposed to a demonstration in radiology where in by chance a spider becomes irradiated and then bites him. People don't bring up the movie organics anymore because it's old news, it was that or nothing, fans came to terms with it. That don't mean it was not a bad decision. It was.



I never said 'all logic should be thrown out', they are your words.
In order to try and diffuse my argument and validate yours, you over exaggerate an aspect of something I touched upon to make my outlook seem misguided. It's a common angle taken by posters on here, either that or you genuinely mis interpreted some issues I highlighted. Superhero comics are fantastical,- but still logical in terms of interactions between characters.



Sure it made sense for Bruce to use WE backlog of military suits and weaponry, but it would have made just as much sense for him to out source and pick the stuff up some other way and design/craft the suit with Alfred. I'm not saying there was anything wrong with the way it was done in the film. How he got his Bat suit / weapons is not that important, the fact that he has them is.
It's a crucial part of his identity. Just like However the Joker might have fallen into an acid bath in different versions of Batman over the years- that bit is not important. What is important is that he has bleached skin. His bleached white skin is a crucial part of his identity. It's not something he can take off, that's who he is.

I think in that respect, his bleached skin is like a mirrored version of Batman's costume.
Batman's costume is not really a suit he dons- it's who he really is, he has no choice- He is Batman. Bruce Wayne is the costume.
In the same way- the Joker has no point of consideration either- his bleached white skin symbolizes his totalitarian view on the world.
He is the Joker- 100% nut job psycho and it cannot be wiped away like make up.



Like I said- about half of the Bat-fans on these boards.
A good percentage of which are hardcore fans.
Obviously FOR YOU it is not a big deal, but that does not mean that it is not a big deal.



No it just means they missed the point in one aspect of the Joker.
There is nothing sick or sadistic about putting on make up. Heck every dumbass teen goth does it.
As the Joker is intended to be- Permawhite- Now that, is damn freaky and scary too.



Well, you are looking at him wrong.
Joker is a psychopath, simple as.
Their is no consideration on his part about the way he is verses established normality.
He can only be one way.
His permawhite skin is just a really creepy and unique way of representing this visually.



Putting make up on is a similar decision to the choice Batman makes to fight crime?
No, the bleached skin is the perfect mirror to Batman as I have previously explained.
For neither of them is it a choice, it is who they are.



Like I said earlier- Joker's state of mind is just set one way.
It's not like he has choice or not, it's just who he is.
The bleached skin is the perfect visual representation of this- it is bizarre and freaky as hell- like him, and it is permanent.



Sure, how they choose to kill someone is interesting, but it is beside the point.
The point is- they kill, and that is all, nothing else.
That's the interesting part for me- the way their brains work.
They are on a setting that we can't comprehend.
Joker's bleached skin is a great visual metaphor for this.



No it's not like saying that, it's like saying- 'because it's a comic book movie I think we should stick to the things that define these characters.'



I'm not judging the film- I think the it will be great- look at my sig. However the fact remains that since this version of the Joker is missing his signature bleached white skin, he is already inferior in one way to all previous live action incarnations. Get it right.



That's a pretty generalized and worthless comment.
FACT IS- making Joker non permawhite is a pretty damn big deviation from the source. Sure it does not change his personality, but the uniqueness and creepiness of him having bleached white skin is integral to his visual identity, even more so than the purple suits, and it is also a great metaphor for his state of mind- like Batman he is locked onto one path and there is no escape. It is a compulsion to do what he does, and there is no way he could be anything else. It is not a mask that paints onto his face, that can sweat off.



It actually would if we got a Spider-Man film that dropped us into the film mid way through Spidey's career and then the Secret War was referred to through flashbacks over a short period of time to recount how the symbiote was brought back to Earth.


The only thing that would have accomplished, is completely confusing the mainstream audience...

[November Rain]

I think its going to suck

[Mr. Socko]

I don't like the character designs and it's just a Saturday morning cartoon for kids so my hopes are not high. But hopefully, it won't be bad.

[Dangerous]

The only thing that would have accomplished, is completely confusing the mainstream audience...

The symbiote scenario?
Sure in the context of the current Spidey film series.

That don't mean it would not be possible to introduce the symbiote in A Spider-Man film via flash backs dealing with a Secret War that happened between films.

[spiderfan970]

I like the character designs, I think they're cool and I like the style. The voice of Spider-Man has grown on me and I love all the footage we're seeing Spider-Man looking cool swinging through the streets of New York. AND IT'S ALL ANIMATED. Remember how lazy the 90s one was with animating the streets around spider-man and spider-man himself? Now we get it all animated and it looks fantastic. I like the designs and I think it'll be an alright show at the least. If not...I'll go do something else...

[NinjaTurtleFan]

[quote=Shin-Natsume;14152035]i havent ready any of this, except the first page... excuse me for that please...
however, i think this will suck aswell...

i name a few reasons:
aimed at kids. the 90ys show was aimed at kids aswell, and while htere wre soem great episodes, the best ones were when spidey was about being an adult. the kids stories sucked. all of them.

greg wiseman. i love what he did on gargoyles, but that was also his baby. and except the batman, i havent watched anything from him, but the batman sucks. the villians are written porly, without any motivation whatsoever and batman is written liek he has no clue whatsoever.

the character design. i hate the modern cartoons character designs. why cant they just quit with this "it needs to be hip and anime like" attitude. give me my good designs back. compare that to the designs from the 90ys show. sure, they had some terrible deisgn choices back then, but at least the style was okay. i dont want my spider-man looking like a wisecracking 10 year old with a balloon as a head, thin like having bulemia. the girls also look like anorexia patients...
quote]

Glad we agree.

[diespinne]

I don't understand all this "aimed at kids" negativity. Wasn't the Lee/Ditko stuff and the Lee/Romita stuff aimed at kids? Wasn't the 90's show (which IMO sucked hard after the first season or two) aimed at kids? What about the Batman, Superman, and JLU cartoons? They were aimed at kids too, right?

[CaptainStacy]

The symbiote scenario?
Sure in the context of the current Spidey film series.

That don't mean it would not be possible to introduce the symbiote in A Spider-Man film via flash backs dealing with a Secret War that happened between films.

You're not being realistic. A flashback would invole hiring more actors, designing and producing more character costumes, creating more sets...how much of a budget do you think Sam would have needed for something like that? Also; Most of the characters like X-Men, FF, Hulk, Iron Man etc., are all liscensed out to other movie studios... the Lizard played a prominent role in Secret War, and he hasnt even appeared in the movies yet!

There was no way Secret Wars was ever going to happen. If that's the reason you say SM3 "sucked" then no offense, but you have no idea what producing a movie is all about.

[Dangerous]

You're not being realistic. A flashback would invole hiring more actors, designing and producing more character costumes, creating more sets...how much of a budget do you think Sam would have needed for something like that? Also; Most of the characters like X-Men, FF, Hulk, Iron Man etc., are all liscensed out to other movie studios... the Lizard played a prominent role in Secret War, and he hasnt even appeared in the movies yet!

There was no way Secret Wars was ever going to happen. If that's the reason you say SM3 "sucked" then no offense, but you have no idea what producing a movie is all about.

Hmmm, it would appear you are TOTALLY missing where I am coming from.

1- I don't think SM3 sucked because SW were not involved, it sucked for all kinds of reasons but Venom's origin not being faithfully reproduced had nothing to do with it.

2- I was contesting a point that a previous poster made about how the SW symbiote origin would not work in the context of a Spider-Man film.
'A Spidey film', he did not say a film in the current Spider-Man film franchise.

I was not talking about the budget, cast etc, or a possible future Spider-Man film's relation to any current Marvel films. I am talking about this only from the point view of script and if it could work. It could be done. Heck, a 10 minute montage, recap or whatever could be made up mostly of CGI shots and Daily Bugle clippings recapping the event.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

I'm disappointed by the art direction, but nothing else. I think it'll be a solid series, though I'm certain it won't be nearly as well-received as Fox's Spider-Man. Anyways, there are two truths you need to recognize. The first is that this is Spider-Man; you can groan about it, but there are many people who will watch this simply because he's in it. The second is that we'll never see a Spider-Man cartoon aired on Adult Swim. Dark, well-written stories have become a thing of the past. However, making everything campy and child-friendly leads to more $$$. From a business standpoint, this is a smart move for any animation studio.

They may not be pleasant truths, but that's just the way that things are.

[spida-man]

[/b][/b] Actually, it's not really based off of Ultimate Spider-Man that much. There's only a few things in the show that may have aspects from Ultimate Spider-Man, but overall, the show is defenitley mainly based of of the classic Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita Issues. :yay:
LOL it's funny cause i actually ment that but i just went ahead and said bassed off of.

[Spider-ManHero12]

LOL it's funny cause i actually ment that but i just went ahead and said bassed off of. Lol, that has happened to me more than once. :yay:

[CaptainStacy]

Hmmm, it would appear you are TOTALLY missing where I am coming from.

1- I don't think SM3 sucked because SW were not involved, it sucked for all kinds of reasons but Venom's origin not being faithfully reproduced had nothing to do with it.

2- I was contesting a point that a previous poster made about how the SW symbiote origin would not work in the context of a Spider-Man film.
'A Spidey film', he did not say a film in the current Spider-Man film franchise.

I was not talking about the budget, cast etc, or a possible future Spider-Man film's relation to any current Marvel films. I am talking about this only from the point view of script and if it could work. It could be done. Heck, a 10 minute montage, recap or whatever could be made up mostly of CGI shots and Daily Bugle clippings recapping the event.


Or, they could keep the storyline running along un-complicated and smoothly, by just having the symbiote land on earth in a meteor.

Oh, wait...:yay:

[spida-man]

i hope that the symbiote storyline will take more than just one or two episodes, it would be nice to see spidey in the black suit for at least 3 to 4 epsidoes. after he didn't wear it for just one hour or for just two issues in the comics.

[Web-Head]

i hope that the symbiote storyline will take more than just one or two episodes, it would be nice to see spidey in the black suit for at least 3 to 4 epsidoes. after he didn't wear it for just one hour or for just two issues in the comics.
The symbiote arc will span about 4 episodes.

[Dangerous]

Or, they could keep the storyline running along un-complicated and smoothly, by just having the symbiote land on earth in a meteor.

Oh, wait...:yay:

True, but OneDisturbedSOB said it could not be done.
I say it could.. and there ya go, we are on the same page.

[IamProdigy]

Grow up, threatening physical violence over something as petty as this is immature and should be left in Third Grade.


Hahahaha.

Why did you must capitalize third grade?

[diespinne]

Hahahaha.

Why did you must capitalize third grade?

Ha-- I like that!

'Why did you must spell incorrectly?'

'Why did you must hate new Spider-man cartoon??'

'Hulk smash!!!' :oldrazz:

[Dangerous]

Ha-- I like that!

'Why did you must spell incorrectly?'

'Why did you must hate new Spider-man cartoon??'

'Hulk smash!!!' :oldrazz:

You can't pick someone up on spelling if you are going to write sentences that are grammatically incorrect. :cwink:

[diespinne]

You can't pick someone up on spelling if you are going to write sentences that are grammatically incorrect. :cwink:

Exactly! I was picking on his use of bad grammar in calling-out someone else's spelling and capitalization abuse.

Why do you must not read all the posts, Beachball-Head??? :oldrazz:

[venom892]

I'm looking forward to the series because it's said to have a classic Spider-man feel.The 90's series will always have a special place in my heart.It's what started my Spidey craze.MTV Spidey was simply ok.As far as the Joker in TDK He seems to be very faithful in terms of the character.So what if he looks a little different.On the other hand in Spider-man 3 none of the characters rang true.

[Dangerous]

Exactly! I was picking on his use of bad grammar in calling-out someone else's spelling and capitalization abuse.

Why do you must not read all the posts, Beachball-Head??? :oldrazz:

It was a joke, nevermind..

[diespinne]

It was a joke, nevermind..

No worries... I know what you were getting at! :spidey:

[Visionary]

Anyone want to bet me, that those who hate the show, are still gonna wake up every Saturday morning at 10:00, and watch every single one of the 26 episodes...just so they can ******.

[spida-man]

Anyone want to bet me, that those who hate the show, are still gonna wake up every Saturday morning at 10:00, and watch every single one of the 26 episodes...just so they can ******.
and i hate when ppl only want to complain don't u?(i am especially tired of ppl having pissy fits over SM3)

[spida-man]

The symbiote arc will span about 4 episodes.
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

[Shin-Natsume]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.-

[diespinne]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.-

Well... I hated the 90's Spider-man TAS, and I like Sponge Bob, AND I'm an adult. It's unfortunate that the art direction that they are using on this new show is not to your liking. I'm not 100% sold on it either, but I like what I've seen and read about this show--sounds like they will have a great mix of action and story that's not just dumbed-down for kids.

[Green Goblin 1964]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.-

Great way to judge a show before it premieres...O plz your argument is weak.

[IamProdigy]

and I like Sponge Bob, AND I'm an adult.


:hehe:

[diespinne]

:hehe:
http://www.cassidyshope.com/imglib/spongebob.jpg
:meow:

[Spider-ManHero12]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.- I really don't think you should be judging the show before it comes out. Besides, this show can and most likley will be spectacular, expecially with the pieople working on it.

[spida-man]

Spider-Man series in the 60's:cool
Spider-Man series in the 90's: amazing!
Spider-Man Unlimited(although unfortunately was limited) in the 90's-200 and something: sweet

Spider-Man MTV: was ok untill the series finale

The Spectacular Spider-Man: looks freakin' Spectacular!!!

and spongebob is the gayest thing ever. doesn't even deserve to be called a cartoon(and i really can't stand being around idiotic school girls who claim spongebob is their "husband" ugh) I also think it is dumb as heck that u can be made fun of for being a junior in high school and to still like ol' webhead, but it's ok for stupid whorish girls to be in love with spongebob? wtf is up with that mess?

[Web-Head]

and spongebob is the gayest thing ever. doesn't even deserve to be called a cartoon(and i really can't stand being around idiotic school girls who claim spongebob is their "husband" ugh) I also think it is dumb as heck that u can be made fun of for being a junior in high school and to still like ol' webhead, but it's ok for stupid whorish girls to be in love with spongebob? wtf is up with that mess?
Exactly. Most children's logic baffles me.

[diespinne]

Sheesh... enough with the Spongebob hate... he's just a fun, silly little kid's cartoon character who's achieved mass appeal among other audiences as well. I'm not even sure why he keeps getting brought-up as something to compare the new Spider-man cartoon to. They're two totally different things.

If anything, I want to see how this new Spidey stacks-up against Batman TAS and Justice League Unlimited!

[Grievous]

I somewhat think the show is going to do bad. seeing as how it's being shown on a dieing channal like kids wb.

[Visionary]

Oh *****...you people are nut cases. Here's a real crazy idea, if you don't like what you see, don't continue to watch it. :dry:

[Green Goblin 1964]

I somewhat think the show is going to do bad. seeing as how it's being shown on a dieing channal like kids wb.Oh, I see...Adult Swim would be better :whatever: Get over yourself.

[Arcturus]

Oh *****...you people are nut cases. Here's a real crazy idea, if you don't like what you see, don't continue to watch it. :dry:

That's insane!

[Grievous]

Oh, I see...Adult Swim would be better :whatever: Get over yourself.
no need to get mad about it!:whatever:

and I never said it should be on Adult Swim. I just said I could not see it doing well on a show like kids WB. Since you don't hear about them.
You need to learn to respect other people's opinions.

[Green Goblin 1964]

no need to get mad about it!:whatever:

and I never said it should be on Adult Swim. I just said I could not see it doing well on a show like kids WB. Since you don't hear about them.
You need to learn to respect other people's opinions.Then what station would YOU want it to be on? And successfully have more then 1 season?

And you do know the 90's series was on Fox,right? Yeah and with more restrictions then kid shows do now...

[Grievous]

I don't know what station it should be on. I'm saying kids wb would not be one of my top pics if I had to pick the station.
But the real question should be why your making a big deal about it?

[Green Goblin 1964]

I don't know what station it should be on. I'm saying kids wb would not be one of my top pics if I had to pick the station.
But the real question should be why your making a big deal about it?Because everyone's moaning and ******ing is pissing me off.:o

[Grievous]

Because everyone's moaning and ******ing is pissing me off.:o
then just pay no attention to it. It helps then to moan right back at the person. Besides everyone has a right to voice there opinion weither other people like it or not.

[Green Goblin 1964]

then just pay no attention to it. It helps then to moan right back at the person. Besides everyone has a right to voice there opinion weither other people like it or not.*sniff* *sniff*

[Grievous]

*sniff* *sniff*
it's ok. just let it all out jk

But I'm not saying the show will be bad man. I'm just worried about how the station will effect it.
and you should not let other peoples opinions upset you anyway.

[Green Goblin 1964]

it's ok. just let it all out jk

But I'm not saying the show will be bad man. I'm just worried about how the station will effect it.
and you should not let other peoples opinions upset you anyway.I need to write a book...:csad:

[Sarcastic Fan]

The show will get picked up by another network, not sure which one yet, but I know the people working on it are not at all worried about the demise of Kids WB.

[spida-man]

Because everyone's moaning and ******ing is pissing me off.:o
LOL! that is true.
i think Kids WB was a good choice, besides supposed TSSM will be untouched by 4KidsTV

[Prefix]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.-
"GRRRRR! KIDS ACT LIKE KIDS! GRRRRRR! KIDS TV SHOWS SHOULD BE MADE FOR ME! ARRRARRARRRARRARAHHH"

:o

[Grievous]

picking up the aimed at kids issue:

sure, they were aimed at kids too, but when we used to be kids (or teens in my place) we were different. kids nowadays just plain awefully suck. when we were kids, we were happy to be kids, enjoying doing kids stuff. kids nowadays want to be as grown up as possible, and everyhting that is not cool or in gets flamed.

maybe in america it was/is different, but in austria, kids today are stupid. they talk down to you, an adult, as if you have no clue whatsoever and they experienced everything. kids today just suck. look at the kids shows from today. badly drawn **** that is as good as gonorrhea.

spongebob for example. god i hate spongebob with a passion. i ahte all this nickelodeon crap.

and this new spidey show will be just that...

end of discussion for me-.-
I would not good as far as the things your saying. My only problem is the station they chose. But what else can they can? If they put the show on Nick then spongebob will beat it away just like every other new show that trys to have a shot at Nick.

[Milu]

The 90's Spidey cartoon wasn't that great to begin with. One of the only superhero cartoons from the 90's that still holds up well is BTAS.

[Webhead2006]

Lets just hope if this first season does well and we get a second season that 4kids doesnt **** over the show once they take over kids wb block on cw in the fall season or hopefully it moves to another network say cartoon network for future seasons. But way to early to think about that.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Lets just hope if this first season does well and we get a second season that 4kids doesnt **** over the show once they take over kids wb block on cw in the fall season or hopefully it moves to another network say cartoon network for future seasons. But way to early to think about that. Agreed, I don't want this show to only last two seasons. I want this show to last a very good amount of seasons and the more seasns there are, the more Peter can grow up and there can be more and more Villians and stories introduced.

[Webhead2006]

Yea but as i said way to early to worry about if we get a season two and if it will stay on cw with 4kids controlling morning block or if it would move to another network. Personally i hope it doesnt stay on cw when 4kids takes over cause they could totally change the feel of the show and have harsher censorship on it. We dont want to have another spidey show get screwed over due to censorship like 90s show was.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Yea but as i said way to early to worry about if we get a season two and if it will stay on cw with 4kids controlling morning block or if it would move to another network. Personally i hope it doesnt stay on cw when 4kids takes over cause they could totally change the feel of the show and have harsher censorship on it. We dont want to have another spidey show get screwed over due to censorship like 90s show was. Yeah, I won't worry about it right now. I will just enjoy the show and leave my Spider-Sense tingling for each episode. :up:

[Webhead2006]

Yea

[Spider-Bat]

This cartoon was crap total crap. Made The Batman look awesome and serious.

Pete's eyes made him look like he belongs in an old Rankin and Bass Christmas special.

Totally lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An insult to the character.
Marvel sucks so bad now. All their cartoon dvds suck, their tv shows suck, like this an that dumb FF cartoon, and Spidey movies look to be on the way down after three turned out merely, meh. They ruin their characters so bad, and the comics have been garbage for years now.

[Spider-Bat]

And another thing, they had to ruin Eddie Brock on top of it, going with the frienldy college kid from the ultimate garbage. No respect.

STUPID B.S.!

[Sarcastic Fan]

And another thing, they had to ruin Eddie Brock on top of it, going with the frienldy college kid from the ultimate garbage. No respect.

STUPID B.S.!

Yeah, let's make him some nobody that appears out of no where and has no real motivation that makes sense. You're a regular William Shakespeare.

[Green Goblin 1964]

This cartoon was crap total crap. Made The Batman look awesome and serious.

Pete's eyes made him look like he belongs in an old Rankin and Bass Christmas special.

Totally lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An insult to the character.
Marvel sucks so bad now. All their cartoon dvds suck, their tv shows suck, like this an that dumb FF cartoon, and Spidey movies look to be on the way down after three turned out merely, meh. They ruin their characters so bad, and the comics have been garbage for years now.

An insult to the character? You obviously know very little about him. This felt like a classic Lee story.

[Spider-ManHero12]

An insult to the character? You obviously know nothing about him. This felt like a classic Lee story. I completley agree. For anybody who has read the comics, such as myself, you will enjoy the show completley. If you say it doesn't have a comic book Spidey feel to it, then I guess that's you're opinion.

[Joker]

Yeah, let's make him some nobody that appears out of no where and has no real motivation that makes sense.

Yeah, that's what the crappy comic book Venom is like. Have a real connection to Spidey makes the feud much more believable.

[Web-Head]

This cartoon was crap total crap. Made The Batman look awesome and serious.

Pete's eyes made him look like he belongs in an old Rankin and Bass Christmas special.

Totally lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An insult to the character.
Marvel sucks so bad now. All their cartoon dvds suck, their tv shows suck, like this an that dumb FF cartoon, and Spidey movies look to be on the way down after three turned out merely, meh. They ruin their characters so bad, and the comics have been garbage for years now.

Your kidding, right?

This show is turning out to be far from bad.

[DCnightwing23]

Idk cause i really liked electro, but that was the only bright point in the show.
Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?
And eddie brock a nerd? and getting along with peter? wtf.
Spiderman:TAS in the 90's wasnt bad at all, it was smart, but this is just weird.
But theres still hope for it.
I wanna see green goblin.
Also i think it was a smart choice to save venom and carnage for the next season.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Idk cause i really liked electro, but that was the only bright point in the show.
Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?
And eddie brock a nerd? and getting along with peter? wtf.
Spiderman:TAS in the 90's wasnt bad at all, it was smart, but this is just weird.
But theres still hope for it.
I wanna see green goblin.
Also i think it was a smart choice to save venom and carnage for the next season.You OBVIOUSLY haven't been keeping up with the news. Eddie and Brock are friends now because both there parents died in the same plane crash. He gets along with Peter at first because even when Eddie first appeared in the comics he was still an A-hole to Peter. We're going to find out in this show why he became that. What caused him to hate on Peter so much? What ruined there relationship? That's what this series is going to explain to us that the comics didn't.

[Visionary]

Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic book? :confused:

[Spider-ManHero12]

Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic book? :confused: Exactly, Spidey makes wisecracks all the time while he's fighting.

[Venom 1988]

Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?
WTF? :huh:

[Green Goblin 1964]

Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?
Go read a Spider-Man book and get back to us.

[Mikelus]

^ Ditto! They are either ignorant or looking for a flame war. I guess they will stop watching if "Spectacular" is just crap right? Oh wait, how naïf of me, they will bash it for the rest of the season, bashing is so addictive to some.

I don't like the characters art work that much, but the voice acting, animation and stories were pretty good, not bad for a "kids show".

[Ruthmarks]

This cartoon was crap total crap. Made The Batman look awesome and serious.

Pete's eyes made him look like he belongs in an old Rankin and Bass Christmas special.

Totally lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An insult to the character.
Marvel sucks so bad now. All their cartoon dvds suck, their tv shows suck, like this an that dumb FF cartoon, and Spidey movies look to be on the way down after three turned out merely, meh. They ruin their characters so bad, and the comics have been garbage for years now.

But aside from that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Seriously, I have to agree about the eyes. And Peter, who looks a little too hip and modern for a science geek, should probably have been given Harry's clothes in his design. But overall, I thought it was pretty good.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Was alright but the designs still suck, once again Peter gets hip clothes like the old cartoon instead of a nerdy attire, and it seemed like they wanted to overcrowd the show with guest spots, cameos, and future storylines--- (didn't Marvel learn with "SPIDER-MAN 3?")

I actually enjoyed "The Batman" series finale more than this.

[IamProdigy]

Was alright but the designs still suck, once again Peter gets hip clothes like the old cartoon instead of a nerdy attire, and it seemed like they wanted to overcrowd the show with guest spots, cameos, and future storylines--- (didn't Marvel learn with "SPIDER-MAN 3?")

I actually enjoyed "The Batman" series finale more than this.


The cartoons were always incredible in the 90s, and I enjoyed them, but never liked one good animated series since 2000, and even for The Batman, I didn't enjoy it until the fourth season, and yes, the series finale was pretty good, but I actually was hoping for Brainiac to be The Joining's leader...might sound weird, but it would've been a good appearance for Brainiac as the last baddie they would have to face before the series ends.

But when I was watching The Spectacular Spider-Man, I felt like a kid again(I'm 20), and yah, I was actually enjoying this show...sure, I'm an adult now, but I'm off and usually bored during the mornings because I had just woke up, so watching this was fun for me...the animation was a bit kiddy-ish and that is even comparing it to The Batman, but the dialogue and the pace of it made it, shall I say, spectacular to watch...I can over-look the designs because it made me a fan of Spidey again, especially after my huge Spider disappointment with Spider-Man 3(:cmad:), but it was nice to see Spidey fighting the forces of Vulture, the Enforcers and Electro and happy to see all of the development with Dr. Connors, Eddie Brock, and even Norman Osborn already, with him being a stealer and taking away the invention from Toomes. So I hope to see the rest of these episodes, the rest of Spidey's villains, and I'll be sitting infront of my TV screen when the symbiote arc comes to this show, :woot:

[IamProdigy]

Edit: Double Post.

Hate those.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Was alright but the designs still suck, once again Peter gets hip clothes like the old cartoon instead of a nerdy attire, and it seemed like they wanted to overcrowd the show with guest spots, cameos, and future storylines--- (didn't Marvel learn with "SPIDER-MAN 3?")

I actually enjoyed "The Batman" series finale more than this.That ALONE explains your taste :dry:

[Prefix]

Was alright but the designs still suck, once again Peter gets hip clothes like the old cartoon instead of a nerdy attire, and it seemed like they wanted to overcrowd the show with guest spots, cameos, and future storylines--- (didn't Marvel learn with "SPIDER-MAN 3?")

I actually enjoyed "The Batman" series finale more than this.
What is 'hip' about what he wears? It's just normal teenager clothes. He's hardly the pinnacle of fashion. We don't need to see him wearing a pocket protector to know he's a geek.

[Visionary]

He wants Erkel The Nerd clothes. :)

[Green Goblin 1964]

NinjaTurtleFan's just stuck in the 90's lol.


Move on boy...

[Spider-ManHero12]

Lol, being a nerd doesn't always mean clothes that pull up far above the waist. That look works great for Peter Parker, but I never see anybody dress like that anymore. I'm a big nerd, but I don't dress like that. I dress in normal clothes.

[Prefix]

People just hate their favourite characters appealing to the younger generation, I swear.

[CaptainStacy]

Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?



http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/CaptainStacy/bottle.gif

[UltimateJustin]

Most nerds dont dress "nerdy" so much as dress badly. When watching the scene when they first get back to school, the whole aspect of Peter being a nerd and bullied came off forced and unexplained. He looks about as competant as any other kid at his school and speaks with total confidence. Its weird to see Peter exclaim "Bro, haha!! Whats up!?" to Brock after years of Maguire's socially awkward mannerisms.

This Peter Parker is more mid-era Ditko/Lee days then the early issues when he did come off as more of an incapable nerd. You just got to assume that for some reason people at his school think that hes a dork, we didnt grow up with him so we werent there during the elementary years that would define his school career. Probably he used to pee his pants all the time. Thats what I'm going with.

[UltimateJustin]

The thing about Spidey's quips is they should either be funny like Bendis (the only thing he does well in his terrible career, and this is only half the time) or just silly and lighthearted but not really funny ("heres your change"). Its bad when Spiderman's jokes are meant to sound clever or funny but instead miss the mark and are distracting or annoying.

I'm sure Spectacular Spiderman will say something funny soon.

"Jalepeno!"
- Goliath

[Visionary]

Fanboys, you give them quips they complain, you don't give them quips they complain. Now they want want their quips at just the right specific style of funny. :dry:

[UltimateJustin]

Fanboys, you give them quips they complain, you don't give them quips they complain. Now they want want their quips at just the right specific style of funny. :dry:
See, you get us.

[strugler]

Well i would really love to know how old are all of you who are enjoying the art style so we can get an idea. Anyway there is question that the animation is great and the music rocks, but for me, for now comparing the first 2 episodes of this to those of the 90's show, i prefer the 90's show.

And just so you know i just watched the first season of the 90's show over the weekend and my only complain was the cgi backgrounds and the music sucks other than that its rock-on.

If the guys behind the SSM wants their show to be known as THE spiderman animated series of all time im afraid that they need change the artstyle and get sony to give them more cash for that coz really the art is keeping me away from enjoying this new series.

i am 26 by the way

[NinjaTurtleFan]

He wants Erkel The Nerd clothes. :)

No, I wanted a guy who looks like Toby McGuire or how Pete is suppose to look like. A guy who switches from his glasses and nerdy clothes to Spider-Man. That's what I wanted.

[Green Goblin 1964]

No, I wanted a guy who looks like Toby McGuire or how Pete is suppose to look like. A guy who switches from his glasses and nerdy clothes to Spider-Man. That's what I wanted.Alright, enough, stop watching the show and leave us at peace.....PLEASE :csad:

[Arkady Rossovich]

I've already heard some bad things about this. Like it's aimed at young kids,and doesn't have the all around appeal that SM:TAS had. Who else thinks that this will be even more censored than the 90's cartoon?

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Alright, enough, stop watching the show and leave us at peace.....PLEASE :csad:

Lol I can't voice my opinion on things?

[Spider-ManHero12]

I've already heard some bad things about this. Like it's aimed at young kids,and doesn't have the all around appeal that SM:TAS had. Who else thinks that this will be even more censored than the 90's cartoon? Umm, Spidey wil kick and punch in this show. Spidey did not do that in the 1990's series.

[amazingfantasy15]

I've been pleasantly surprised by the show. My only complaint is the characters huge eyes, but everything else feels right. Pete's a science nerd with money problems, helping his aunt out. I like the curfew thing, Pete and Eddie being friends, hopefully they'll go with the Ultimate version of the Venom suit, an experiment gone wrong. Cool to see Gwen as a nerd like Pete. Plenty of villians have already made cameos, so you can see they'll take the time to develop big time enemies like the Goblin, Lizard, Venom, Doc Ock and the Kingpin. Hopefully MJ will be introduced as a new girl at school. Only complaints are the eyes and that Liz seems to be asian, why couldn't they have the blond be called Liz and the asian girl just a random friend.

[Prefix]

I've already heard some bad things about this. Like it's aimed at young kids,and doesn't have the all around appeal that SM:TAS had. Who else thinks that this will be even more censored than the 90's cartoon?
GASP! A cartoon is aimed at young kids!!!!

[spida-man]

Idk cause i really liked electro, but that was the only bright point in the show.
Whats up with spidey making all these lame jokes while battling bad guys?
And eddie brock a nerd? and getting along with peter? wtf.
Spiderman:TAS in the 90's wasnt bad at all, it was smart, but this is just weird.
But theres still hope for it.
I wanna see green goblin.
Also i think it was a smart choice to save venom and carnage for the next season.
Have u ever read a spidey comic? and since when has spidey's jokes ever been "Lame" sure he may crake a joke thats a little dry but they are still funny. and if u have watched the 90's series then u should be use to spidey cracking jokes while fighting villains, honestly since when did SHH start getting "Whacked up, whacky, whack-jobs" making dumb statements about how something that actually is cool suposedly sucking?

[AIRWOLF]

I thought it was going to suck, but I'm glad I was wrong.

[amazingfantasy15]

Have u ever read a spidey comic? and since when has spidey's jokes ever been "Lame" sure he may crake a joke thats a little dry but they are still funny. and if u have watched the 90's series then u should be use to spidey cracking jokes while fighting villains, honestly since when did SHH start getting "Whacked up, whacky, whack-jobs" making dumb statements about how something that actually is cool suposedly sucking?

Because it's aimed at kids, so it must suck. Didn't you know that a rule about comics, anything aimed at kids=automatically bad.

[Kamarov]

Fanboys, you give them quips they complain, you don't give them quips they complain. Now they want want their quips at just the right specific style of funny. :dry:

And this is exactly why the producers have pretty much given fanboys the middle finger and turned montana into shocker.

[Webhead2006]

Well we dont know for sure is the whole montana/shocker thing is true. We got to wait to saturday for sure. I really dont see it happening since they said they are fans of the classic era spidey and have been mostly using elements from that peroids for the show to do an identity change. There is no point in doing it. but we dont know for sure right now.

[Visionary]

And this is exactly why the producers have pretty much given fanboys the middle finger and turned montana into shocker.Fanboys deserve the middle finger most of the time, so I'm with the producers. And based on the promo, I can't wait to see said episode, even if it is Montana as Shocker. :o

[spida-man]

Because it's aimed at kids, so it must suck. Didn't you know that a rule about comics, anything aimed at kids=automatically bad.
that is one of the dumbest statements i have ever heard. Also that is completely false.
and if everything aimed at kids is bad then u might as well say that all the things we grew up with as kids were just dumb. stupid, steaming piles of crap. Bassically u are saying that cartoons such as Gargoyles, BatMan, Spider-Man, X-Men, all the cartoons and stuff related to them that we grew up with, is bad.

[Prefix]

that is one of the dumbest statements i have ever heard. Also that is completely false.Good thing he was being sarcastic, huh?

[spida-man]

Good thing he was being sarcastic, huh?
lol

[Web-Head]

Fanboys deserve the middle finger most of the time, so I'm with the producers. And based on the promo, I can't wait to see said episode, even if it is Montana as Shocker. :o
I'm with you on that.

Nor can I, at least Montana has had some development time. Herman Shultz on the other hand, hasn't. I don't even think he has been introduced. Another smart move on their part.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Has doubts been confirmed? Or simply coming out more? It still is possible to make a cartoon fun for kids and older viewers.

[Venomfan]

I'm with you on that.

Nor can I, at least Montana has had some development time. Herman Shultz on the other hand, hasn't. I don't even think he has been introduced. Another smart move on their part.
ya Montana has had at most a whole minute of screentime, it sure would have been tough to introduce Herman with all that character development

[Sarcastic Fan]

ya Montana has had at most a whole minute of screentime, it sure would have been tough to introduce Herman with all that character development

Oh, get over it.

[Venomfan]

Oh, get over it.
i'm just trying to make the point that the character development argument is crap

[Ratcrawler]

What's there to develop? He's a merc for hire who loves his job and takes being a man very seriously.

[Venomfan]

well some people think that it wouldn't make sense for Herman to be Shocker because Montana was very developed(for a whole minute)

[varsas]

well some people think that it wouldn't make sense for Herman to be Shocker because Montana was very developed(for a whole minute)

It was certainly for more than a minute but introducing a character in every episode that then becomes the villain makes the show's format feel more tired like in Smallville imho. For me it's far more interesting to see Dr. Connors and Flint Marko for a few episodes before their transformation with Alex O'Hirn, Otto Octavius and Norman Osborn to come.

I have a feeling that we will see Shocker again and have the "correct" man behind the mask especially given that the producers generally want to maintain the essence of the original comics.

[Venomfan]

It was certainly for more than a minute .
really? someone should rewatch the episode and time it, because i'd say his screentime was around a minute

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Close the thread. While I hate the designs I like the stories overall. So, moderator please close thread.

[Visionary]

No, this shall not be closed, this thread shall remain open, now and forever more.

[vinny2]

i'm just trying to make the point that the character development argument is crap

How about this argument? In terms of their personality and decision making, what's that different from Montana to Herman Schultz? Put Schultz behind the mask and essentially, you have the exact same character, albeit with a different accent. He'll still be a mercenary and he'll still retain his professionalism.

[Venomfan]

ok? so Flint Marko could have been Rhino then?

[Sarcastic Fan]

ok? so Flint Marko could have been Rhino then?

Does it really matter to you who Shocker is? You're the only one left who's still *****ing and moaning about it.

[Venomfan]

Does it really matter to you who Shocker is? You're the only one left who's still *****ing and moaning about it.
no i don't really care(although i think everyone would agree it would have been better if he was the correct charactor), i only posted in the first place because people were using an argument that didn't make anysense, like i already said

[Venom 1988]

Christ leave the guy be, I still hate the decision too, but I kinda liked it in the end. Not everyone who watches this has to like EVERY SINGLE DETAIL. If he wants to complain, let him complain then

[IamProdigy]

Does anyone think it sucks now after five episodes have been shown? Lol. Because so far I've read just positive notes about the series.

[varsas]

really? someone should rewatch the episode and time it, because i'd say his screentime was around a minute

Why don't you go back and do that?

Of the top of my head the scenes/sequence to time are:

1. The enforcers talk to the Big Man (episode 1),
2. The enforcers chase and attack Spiderman (episode 1),
3. Montana steals the Shocker suit (episode 4).

[Spider-ManHero12]

Does anyone think it sucks now after five episodes have been shown? Lol. Because so far I've read just positive notes about the series. Nope, it doesn't seem like it and that's an extremly good thing. :up:

[ironwez20]

i cant believe people are compaining about this show so what if thier faces look kinda wierd its still spidey and its still cool, or would u rather spidey be a 12yr old kid who in elementary school and helps kids with their abcs and 123s , didnt think so

[Arkady Rossovich]

I'm slowly starting to think that it is a bad show,but people think it's good. Still,I don't think it will be on long.

[Spider-ManHero12]

I'm slowly starting to think that it is a bad show,but people think it's good. Still,I don't think it will be on long. Why?

[ironwez20]

yea i no why

[Arkady Rossovich]

Well,there hasn't been a Marvel cartoon in years. There was the Fantastic Four cartoon,but Cartoon Network is sort of afraid of anything that isn't Japanese. The cartoon was good,but you had to watch it to get the feel for it. Animation wise,it's better than this. I want to be fair..but that's how I see it..

[redlion2]

I actully fully expected it to suck before it aired but I must say I'm pleasantly surprised how much I've enjoyed it. It's really a pretty good show and I haven't been this excited about a Spidey toon since the first late 60's Spider-man. Now, if they would just bring Scorpian and Mysterio in, I'd be set.

[Spider-ManHero12]

yea i no why Can you tell me?

[Ratcrawler]

Well,there hasn't been a Marvel cartoon in years. There was the Fantastic Four cartoon,but Cartoon Network is sort of afraid of anything that isn't Japanese. The cartoon was good,but you had to watch it to get the feel for it. Animation wise,it's better than this. I want to be fair..but that's how I see it..

Still can't believe Teen Titans went on for 5 seasons and FF didn't get to finish it's first. Didn't it rate well in Europe?

[varsas]

Still can't believe Teen Titans went on for 5 seasons and FF didn't get to finish it's first. Didn't it rate well in Europe?

Was it even shown in Europe? I'd not even heard of it before I heard of this Spiderman cartoon and then I looked at the marvel website.

[Arkady Rossovich]

The FF cartoon was shown in more than a few countries,much like I expect SSM to be. It was very popular,which is why FF isn't canceled. You can buy the DVD's and see the episodes not shown on tv. Some have done this,I just think this cartoon is just a bit more than what it really is.

[spida-man]

I think SS-M will be here for a while
but u know what ticks me off, if the FF cartoon can be put onto DVD along with episodes that never airded, why can't they do that with other shows?(example Spider-Man Unlimited, for those of us who enjoyed that series despite the stupid beastiles)

[Webhead2006]

Well it stoped airing here in the states due to bad ratings and CN deciding not to air the rest of the episode orders where as in other countries they got to see the rest.

[Silver Spider]

Can you tell me?
I think he meant; "Yeah I know, why?" Like he was wondering too. Of course, I could be wrong.

[Web-Head]

Well it stoped airing here in the states due to bad ratings and CN deciding not to air the rest of the episode orders where as in other countries they got to see the rest.
Shame it didn't get picked up for a second season, I really enjoyed it.

[Silver Spider]

Yeah, despite all the negativity towards the show, I liked FF:WGH.

[Webhead2006]

Yea i thought story wise it was pretty good i just really hated that cgi/anime style looked odd. But i still havent seen all the episodes. I have only seen up to the second puppet master episode.

[Silver Spider]

I barely saw any, because of CN's messed up airings. I loved the one with the Hulk.

[Web-Head]

I barely saw any, because of CN's messed up airings. I loved the one with the Hulk.
So did I, they handled all of the guest star episodes well.

[Webhead2006]

I only saw the antman teamup and not the others. But we should get back to the topic here which is this spiderman show.

[Johann Schmidtt]

I still have doubts about the series. Do others have any new views?

[Webhead2006]

love this series lots of things are done right with this series.

[Venom 1988]

I still have doubts about the series. Do others have any new views?

WTF? :huh:

[smpinoy]

Yeah i heard FF did well in other countries...it is shown in my country several times but not popular.

sm unlimited DVD? i guess it has the same legal problems as other marvel cartoon in the 90s....thanks to torrents...i discovered that there was actually a Silver Surfer Cartoon made. Want to get all those marvel animated in official DVD though

Now speaking of spec sm....we know it is rated number 1 in the its timeslot and even its rerun during the 9:30am showing....it would be shown in my country very soon...cool kids would love this spidey for sure.

[Web-Head]

WTF? :huh:
Same thing I was thinking.

[Sawyer]

SSM >>>>>>>> Spider-Man: TAS (which was still great)


Just my opinion.

[russttrombone]

I still have doubts about the series. Do others have any new views?

My only doubts are that it might not get the 5 seasons and ton of D2DVD movies it deserves because of wacky network/marketing decisions.

This show, in one season has managed to WTFPWN every other non comic incarnation of Spider-Man. And yes, I'm including the movies.

[Spider-ManHero12]

love this series lots of things are done right with this series. I 110% agree. :up:

[Demogoblin]

If anything, I like it more now than I did when it started. It did seem aimed towards kids a little much but the attention to detail and the obvious research done to past comic story lines is really awesome. As for being aimed towards kids, duh, its a cartoon. Dopey of me to expect otherwise.

[Mistah K88]

I went into this show without any expectations as well...I'm a more of a Batman person. The designs didn't really bother me that much going in because I always prefered stylized designs to real looking ones (I'm one of the few who liked TNBA's character models more than BTAS). I watched this show and became more interested in Spider-Man, plus...more minor characters that people like myself wouldn't be familiar with like Sally Avril have more prominent roles in this series so this show does it's homework.

My friend who IS a Spider-Man fan, would NOT watch the show period no matter how much I told him how good it was (Well, me being a Batman buff probably wouldn't know anything about his hero). Then I showed him just the Sinister Six fight and then he went and watched the full season.

[Ratcrawler]

The designs didn't really bother me that much going in because I always prefered stylized designs to real looking ones (I'm one of the few who liked TNBA's character models more than BTAS). .

THANK YOU! I mean, props to the noir look of TAS and all that but good God, everyone looked so bloated whenever they crouched down and motion didn't seem to translate that well. Fact is, if you're drawing a cartoon, you're going to have to stylize and simplify it in some way. Otherwise, Alex Ross would be the most successful animator in the world.

[smpinoy]

I went into this show without any expectations as well...I'm a more of a Batman person. The designs didn't really bother me that much going in because I always prefered stylized designs to real looking ones (I'm one of the few who liked TNBA's character models more than BTAS). I watched this show and became more interested in Spider-Man, plus...more minor characters that people like myself wouldn't be familiar with like Sally Avril have more prominent roles in this series so this show does it's homework.

My friend who IS a Spider-Man fan, would NOT watch the show period no matter how much I told him how good it was (Well, me being a Batman buff probably wouldn't know anything about his hero). Then I showed him just the Sinister Six fight and then he went and watched the full season.


yeah...i know some spidey fans who wouldnt watch the show just because of the designs

the designs in fact help the smooth animation and provided great action which other spidey cartoons didnt have

some action scenes in this is show are some of the best saturday morning has seen.

[Doctor Jones]

THANK YOU! I mean, props to the noir look of TAS and all that but good God, everyone looked so bloated whenever they crouched down and motion didn't seem to translate that well. Fact is, if you're drawing a cartoon, you're going to have to stylize and simplify it in some way. Otherwise, Alex Ross would be the most successful animator in the world.

Why do people always beef with Ross? He draws realistically.

[JAK®]

Why do people always beef with Ross? He draws realistically.I think he's saying that in a world where its just as easy to animate using detailed designs as it is simplified designs, Alex Ross would be a great animator. So its sort of a compliment.

[Sam Fisher]

Reading the last page...I can't believe people are complaning about Shocker. So what's it's a different pereson in the suit..it's still Shocker.

[JAK®]

Reading the last page...I can't believe people are complaning about Shocker. So what's it's a different pereson in the suit..it's still Shocker.As if Herman Schultz was a pivotal character in Spider-Man history anyway. He wasn't even mentioned by name in TAS.

[Sam Fisher]

Plus it's not like Herman ever had that much character delevopment.

[Webhead2006]

yea at first i didnt like that it wasnt herman but over the course of season 1 i started to like it.

[Web-Head]

Who's to say this Montana's real name isn't Herman Schulz?

[Webhead2006]

Greg lol