Harvey Dent/Two Face Thread

[Oryon]

Ok I just watched this again. Pay very close attention to the second shot of Two-Face lying on the ground in the end, particularly his stomach. There is definitely a slight pulse or breathing motion going on there. I'm 100% certain.

Now I don't know if this is an indication that Two-Face is in fact alive or whether it's a flaw in Eckhart's performance, but he is definitely breathing.

Look for it.

Edit: Damn it, I posted in the wrong thread.

[The Guard]

nstead of taking that route, what if The Dark Knight introduced Dent, showed his White Knight pursuit of justice, and ended with his fall and the rise of Two Face? Would that have totally bankrupted the point of the movie? Would that have left Harvey in place for a powerful sequel dealing with his role as an underworld boss different from the previous Falcone/Maroni mobsters? Does his death rob Nolan of a great character on which to base a subsequent narrative? Does it rob Batman of one of his greatest villains with which to have a more dedicated outing the next time?

Yes. Yes, oh God, yes.

[Hypestyle]

...how did they do the makeup effects for Two-face? very creepy and true to the comics..

too bad they didn't keep him alive for a sequel...

[I Am The Knight]

Ok I just watched this again. Pay very close attention to the second shot of Two-Face lying on the ground in the end, particularly his stomach. There is definitely a slight pulse or breathing motion going on there. I'm 100% certain.

Now I don't know if this is an indication that Two-Face is in fact alive or whether it's a flaw in Eckhart's performance, but he is definitely breathing.

Look for it.

Edit: Damn it, I posted in the wrong thread.

I hope you're right.

[jsf]

I hope you're right.

yeah when I went to see it for the 2nd time, I was looking for that... but you can't really see anything. It's just mainly the motion of the camera and the lighting, etc.

[GhostPoet]

Of course he was breathing...the actor wasn't dead. =P Just playing it. heheh

[Mdizzle]

I kinda feel the same way too, especially with Two-Face. I wouldn't want him to become a standard, cliche bad guy. Now I'm sure if Ledger were alive, Nolan and co. could've probably written an awesome extension of his character in a third film...but with him gone, it would feel too forced in bring in another actor...it would also stretch the suspension of disbelief that the Joker could continue to terrorize the city unstopped after already being apprehended by Batman. Imo, a better idea for the third film would be to bring in fresh villains...with may be a passing reference or nod to the Joker being locked in Arkham, and/or prosecuted.

I agree with this. And after Heath's stellar turn as the Joker, I would certainly appreciate the third movie mentioning a little something about him. A bit of closure to a plot/storyline that will never truly be concluded...

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with this. And after Heath's stellar turn as the Joker, I would certainly appreciate the third movie mentioning a little something about him. A bit of closure to a plot/storyline that will never truly be concluded...

If "The Dark Knight" showed us anything, it's that Nolan isn't going to cover the same ground in his sequels. As a result, I'd probably expect the third Batman film (if there is one) to be as different to "The Dark Knight" as "The Dark Knight" is different to "Batman Begins". Different feel, different pace, and yes...different antagonists.

If Heath Ledger was alive, most likely his appearance s The Joker in the third film would be a continuity-maintaining cameo, in the vein of Crane in TDK, before promptly moving on to the new antagonists.

[Mdizzle]

If "The Dark Knight" showed us anything, it's that Nolan isn't going to cover the same ground in his sequels. As a result, I'd probably expect the third Batman film (if there is one) to be as different to "The Dark Knight" as "The Dark Knight" is different to "Batman Begins". Different feel, different pace, and yes...different antagonists.

If Heath Ledger was alive, most likely his appearance s The Joker in the third film would be a continuity-maintaining cameo, in the vein of Crane in TDK, before promptly moving on to the new antagonists.

I agree with that, but what I'm saying is that I'd appreciate the nod to the Joker, an acknowledgment so to speak. I don't expect the third film to continue in the same direction as TDK necessarily or at all; however I think even a brief mention of the Joker would be a nice touch. I think having that mention would act the part of closure for the fans...especially knowing that, in all likelihood, it wouldn't even be possible to continue the Joker's storyline without Heath.

[Spider-Fan]

Saying something about Joker being at Arkham would be a nice touch :up:

[Mdizzle]

Exactly.

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with that, but what I'm saying is that I'd appreciate the nod to the Joker, an acknowledgment so to speak. I don't expect the third film to continue in the same direction as TDK necessarily or at all; however I think even a brief mention of the Joker would be a nice touch. I think having that mention would act the part of closure for the fans...especially knowing that, in all likelihood, it wouldn't even be possible to continue the Joker's storyline without Heath.

Absolutely, I was agreeing with you. I was saying that a recast is not only unlikely, but also unnecessary, as a couple of lines referring to him being in Arkham - as you suggest - would largely fulfil the same purpose as such a Joker cameo would have.

[Mdizzle]

Oh right, heh. I was just so blown away by what we were given in TDK...it would be too hard to top that.

I was also definitely drawn in by Eckhart/Dent's charisma...coupled with a hint of vulnerability. Good stuff all around...which is likely why I can't stop posting about it :D

[CristiMAN]

I do believe Harvey will be the backbone of the third. He is not dead. To me his funeral is staged to make him a martir and a white knight for real. And locked deep. Batman has now to deal with a city that not only fears him: it hates him. And a Villain that has some personal business to deal with him.

[chetdenim]

Dent was amazing in the movie and Two-Face was class as well. I also thought the way he was scarred was great, it threw of those of us expecting the good old court room scene.

[ShadowBoxing]

If "The Dark Knight" showed us anything, it's that Nolan isn't going to cover the same ground in his sequels. As a result, I'd probably expect the third Batman film (if there is one) to be as different to "The Dark Knight" as "The Dark Knight" is different to "Batman Begins". Different feel, different pace, and yes...different antagonists.

If Heath Ledger was alive, most likely his appearance s The Joker in the third film would be a continuity-maintaining cameo, in the vein of Crane in TDK, before promptly moving on to the new antagonists.
I doubt it. If Ledger were alive, to entertain that notion, it's not quite the same as Crane in Begins. Scarecrow was a side character to begin with, a lackey for the League of Shadows, and a filler for when Batman finally had his final showdown with Ra's Al Ghul. The difference between Ra's and the Joker/Two-Face is Ra's was strictly an origin centric villain. He was tried to the movie through Bruce's training to be Batman. Now that Bruce is Batman, that storyline is immaterial.

Batman, however, lives and works out of Gotham mostly, so unless the next movie will take him somewhere away from that setting it's not unreasonable to surmise that Joker and any of the other Gotham familiars would be kicking around. Unlike Scarecrow though, you have a legitimate and much more compelling and thematic threat with either Harvey Dent or the Joker. They aren't just idle throwaways. You can't have Joker try to knock over some bank, just to be caught by Batman; it would directly go against the grand nature of the character they set up.

It would be not unlike bringing back Lex Luthor in a Superman movie and not doing something major with him, or doing an X-Men film with Magneto and having him be a throwaway villain. It simply wouldn't fly.

[CristiMAN]

I believe Aaron did sign for two films. Correct me, but remember reading in these foruns a year ago...

Two face is the main villain in the third. As it should be.

[ShadowBoxing]

I believe Aaron did sign for two films. Correct me, but remember reading in these foruns a year ago...

Two face is the main villain in the third. As it should be.
He did sign on for two, back when he was cast. That may mean nothing though, as several dead franchise villains and heroes have signed for multiple movie in the past.

[David Rice]

I do believe Harvey will be the backbone of the third. He is not dead. To me his funeral is staged to make him a martir and a white knight for real. And locked deep. Batman has now to deal with a city that not only fears him: it hates him. And a Villain that has some personal business to deal with him.

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but he's dead. I wish he wasn't, but he is.

I believe Aaron did sign for two films. Correct me, but remember reading in these foruns a year ago...

Two face is the main villain in the third. As it should be.

That doesn't really mean anything. I'm willing to bet that we will not see Two Face again.

[David Rice]

How could two face even be casual about walking around with wounds that bad? IMO Not possible.

He didn't care!

A.Two Face is missing all of his left cheek and the majority of his left lips. With injuries like that there is no way possible that he wouldn't have a speech impediment.

B.Two Face only has one eyelid. Without an eyelid his left eye in about a minute it would start to cause him harm over time he would go blind in that eye and the actual eyeball would begin to deform.

C.Some movements Two Face makes are physically impossible to make with the missing muscles/injuries he has.

Are you a doctor? And so what if you're right, who cares? He was awesome! :woot:

[LastSunrise1981]

I have a question for everyone.

Did anyone jump when he shot Batman? When he flipped the coin I was expecting him to say something, but the gunshot just happened so quick, and on top of that it was VERY loud. I definitely jumped when he shot Batman in the stomach.

[DACrowe]

I don't intend to get much into the Dent is dead/alive debate. There is a thread that is revolving in an endless circle for that already. ;)

But I will say that it is worth noting that Nolan doesn't like to repeat himself. He cut to the meat and deepest stuff of Two-Face's character and motivation in the Dark Knight. He needs convincing to do this one at a time and that is why a third movie isn't even set in stone. I imagine if he does one he'll want to it to at least be something new, fresh and original, even if he cannot top TDK.

That is another reason why I don't think we'll see Two-Face again. He wants to move on.

With that said Eckhart was simply amazing in this movie. I agree he (and Oldman and Bale as well) are being completely overlooked because of Ledger's amazing turn. While I think at this point Ledger DESERVES an Oscar for what he did with JOker, Echart's Dent should be nominated. Though there is no chance of that. But Dent is the emotional centerpiece of this movie and his arc from hero to villain and from Batman's idol-almost to needed martyr is all very fascinating. Echart played the part so well there is an enormous sense of sadness seeing what he is reduced to and still at the end when he is holding a gun to a child's head much of the sympathy has faded in way of a truly pathetic and selfish villain. Yet his "death," when Batman turns his head to the good side is still very moving, poignant and the symbolic point of the movie. That is the main reason I don't want to see Two-Face back. It was so wel ldone and I think in those final five minutes said everything that needed to be said.

With that said, sorry, I'd like to see a cameo for Joker in the third movie. Just Batman going to Arkham some reason (maybe seek advice reluctantly from Dr. Crane) and on the way to his room he passes The Joker's, which is marked unnamed or unknown. When he passes we get a shot from the inside of a figure with green hair perched in a shadowy corner giggling "Why so serious" to Batman who ignores him as walks by.

Just my little idea.

[DACrowe]

I have a question for everyone.

Did anyone jump when he shot Batman? When he flipped the coin I was expecting him to say something, but the gunshot just happened so quick, and on top of that it was VERY loud. I definitely jumped when he shot Batman in the stomach.

I did (I also jumped at "say it" and when the fake Batman hit the window).

Anyway that reminds me, did Batman's armor stop the bullet? Because in BB Fox says the armor can stop anything but a straight shot, and he downgraded for more flexibility and speed/agility into this suit that surely couldn't have taken a straight shot. So if he has a bullet in his gut, how did he survive? Much less a fall and escape police chasing him, get back to his penthouse and get medical attention discretely? And if he was bleeding then Bruce Wayne's blood dripped when they were chasing Batman through a crime scene.

Am I overthinking this?

[David Rice]

I don't intend to get much into the Dent is dead/alive debate. There is a thread that is revolving in an endless circle for that already. ;)

But I will say that it is worth noting that Nolan doesn't like to repeat himself. He cut to the meat and deepest stuff of Two-Face's character and motivation in the Dark Knight. He needs convincing to do this one at a time and that is why a third movie isn't even set in stone. I imagine if he does one he'll want to it to at least be something new, fresh and original, even if he cannot top TDK.

That is another reason why I don't think we'll see Two-Face again. He wants to move on.

With that said Eckhart was simply amazing in this movie. I agree he (and Oldman and Bale as well) are being completely overlooked because of Ledger's amazing turn. While I think at this point Ledger DESERVES an Oscar for what he did with JOker, Echart's Dent should be nominated. Though there is no chance of that. But Dent is the emotional centerpiece of this movie and his arc from hero to villain and from Batman's idol-almost to needed martyr is all very fascinating. Echart played the part so well there is an enormous sense of sadness seeing what he is reduced to and still at the end when he is holding a gun to a child's head much of the sympathy has faded in way of a truly pathetic and selfish villain. Yet his "death," when Batman turns his head to the good side is still very moving, poignant and the symbolic point of the movie. That is the main reason I don't want to see Two-Face back. It was so wel ldone and I think in those final five minutes said everything that needed to be said.

With that said, sorry, I'd like to see a cameo for Joker in the third movie. Just Batman going to Arkham some reason (maybe seek advice reluctantly from Dr. Crane) and on the way to his room he passes The Joker's, which is marked unnamed or unknown. When he passes we get a shot from the inside of a figure with green hair perched in a shadowy corner giggling "Why so serious" to Batman who ignores him as walks by.

Just my little idea.

Nice, I couldn't agree more. Send your ideas to Nolan!

[David Rice]

I did (I also jumped at "say it" and when the fake Batman hit the window).

Anyway that reminds me, did Batman's armor stop the bullet? Because in BB Fox says the armor can stop anything but a straight shot, and he downgraded for more flexibility and speed/agility into this suit that surely couldn't have taken a straight shot. So if he has a bullet in his gut, how did he survive? Much less a fall and escape police chasing him, get back to his penthouse and get medical attention discretely? And if he was bleeding then Bruce Wayne's blood dripped when they were chasing Batman through a crime scene.

Am I overthinking this?

I think the Kevlar parts would stop the bullet. If those parts are removed then he would be screwed.

[TDK86]

I don't intend to get much into the Dent is dead/alive debate. There is a thread that is revolving in an endless circle for that already. ;)

But I will say that it is worth noting that Nolan doesn't like to repeat himself. He cut to the meat and deepest stuff of Two-Face's character and motivation in the Dark Knight. He needs convincing to do this one at a time and that is why a third movie isn't even set in stone. I imagine if he does one he'll want to it to at least be something new, fresh and original, even if he cannot top TDK.

That is another reason why I don't think we'll see Two-Face again. He wants to move on.

With that said Eckhart was simply amazing in this movie. I agree he (and Oldman and Bale as well) are being completely overlooked because of Ledger's amazing turn. While I think at this point Ledger DESERVES an Oscar for what he did with JOker, Echart's Dent should be nominated. Though there is no chance of that. But Dent is the emotional centerpiece of this movie and his arc from hero to villain and from Batman's idol-almost to needed martyr is all very fascinating. Echart played the part so well there is an enormous sense of sadness seeing what he is reduced to and still at the end when he is holding a gun to a child's head much of the sympathy has faded in way of a truly pathetic and selfish villain. Yet his "death," when Batman turns his head to the good side is still very moving, poignant and the symbolic point of the movie. That is the main reason I don't want to see Two-Face back. It was so wel ldone and I think in those final five minutes said everything that needed to be said.

With that said, sorry, I'd like to see a cameo for Joker in the third movie. Just Batman going to Arkham some reason (maybe seek advice reluctantly from Dr. Crane) and on the way to his room he passes The Joker's, which is marked unnamed or unknown. When he passes we get a shot from the inside of a figure with green hair perched in a shadowy corner giggling "Why so serious" to Batman who ignores him as walks by.

Just my little idea.

Agreed :cwink:

[LastSunrise1981]

I did (I also jumped at "say it" and when the fake Batman hit the window).

Anyway that reminds me, did Batman's armor stop the bullet? Because in BB Fox says the armor can stop anything but a straight shot, and he downgraded for more flexibility and speed/agility into this suit that surely couldn't have taken a straight shot. So if he has a bullet in his gut, how did he survive? Much less a fall and escape police chasing him, get back to his penthouse and get medical attention discretely? And if he was bleeding then Bruce Wayne's blood dripped when they were chasing Batman through a crime scene.

Am I overthinking this?

I'm sure he had some extra armor underneath the suit.

I jumped at the "SAY IT!!!" line too. But Batman getting shot by Two-Face after the coin toss caught me off guard.

[Marx]

I'm sure he had some extra armor underneath the suit.

I jumped at the "SAY IT!!!" line too. But Batman getting shot by Two-Face after the coin toss caught me off guard.

I jumped when the fake batman hit the window, the "SAY IT" line, and when Two-Face shot Batman. http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[DACrowe]

Me too. ^^ :)

[Nirvana]

MTV Award Best On Screen Team: Bale, Oldman, Eckhart :up:

[omid17]

yup

[magicangel1989]

I nearly jumped at the first sight of Two Face. CREEEEEPPYYY! And i don't think that Batman was wearing extra armor when he got shot, which totally shocked me!

Eckhart had the perfect Two Face voice....and i don't think Two Face is dead.

[ronny]

Question: When The Joker speaks to Harvey in the hospital how did you interpret Dent's reaction? At first he was struggling but then the look on his face starts to change and it kind of confuses me, is it silent acceptance of what Joker's saying? Or simmering hatred, waiting for the guy to shut up so he can kill him?

[IAmBatman]

Live long enough to see yourself become the villain..


Now, maybe this has been brought up in another thread but I haven't read every single thread here, nor feel the need to. If it has, just merge or delete this.

If not, my question is:

Did Harvey Dent die the hero, and Batman lived long enough to see himself become the villain?

Everyone I talk to tells me that Harvey Dent died the hero, and Two-Face became the villain. But I don't see it that way.

At the end Batman said that Harvey Dent was the hero the city needed. And he turned the murders he did, on himself promoting a hunt for him.

So, Harvey Dent really died the hero in the eyes of the public. And Batman was the villain.


Thoughts?

[Quinzel]

Harvey Dent killed a few people.

So yeah. lol.

[weezerspider]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.

[Ziggyman]

In the eyes of the public...Yes!...In the eyes of Gotham's heroes (Gordon, Batman, Dent)...No!

[Quinzel]

Hey, The only guys Dent actually got around to killing, were people batman fought.

Soooo, he just did what the B-man couldn't do himself, because of his Rule.

now, He was GONNA kill a kid, and the B-man.

But he never got around to actually doing it. lol.

[Batman137]

I should make a "Who thinks Harvey is still alive?" thread

[chaseter]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.
How is it cheesy? It is perfect foreshadowing and even better allegorically speaking. Harvey Dent died a hero to the public's eyes and Batman lived long enough to become the villian in the public's eyes but it was actually reverse.

[Quinzel]

I think people thought it was a cheesy line, just because they've heard it so much.

I know people who think "Why So Serious" is kinda lame

but they suck. lol.

[Meus]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or even noticed this, but I personally don't believe Batman is The Dark Knight in this story, even though admittedly that alias is inherently his own in the comic books; but this could be a clever subtext in the film by Nolan.

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

That quote is ultimately the pretext, the main theme, behind the story. I see it as an evolution to that of which proceeded it in Batman Begins with Bruce's realisation that, in his attempt to fight the criminal underworld, he as a man is as weak and as potent as any other individual in the crowd. But as a symbol, he is more, he's just enough to make a difference. So it's no surprise that Nolan uses this form of mentality to be the ingredients for the success of his films.

After seeing the movie, the most memorable character to me was not breath-taking performance of Ledger's Joker, nor Batman's grit, or even Alfred's English wit, but I was the only one who considered Harvey Dent as the protagonist in this story. His transformation and overall meaning to the story is undeniable. He is the 'White Knight', but through his transformation, wouldn't it make more sense to identify him as the 'Dark Knight'?

Yes okay, you have an opposite to this White Knight, the Batman; they're both Knights in their own sense yet why is there a difference to justify the 'White/'Dark' metaphor? Is Batman really that dark? The one who ultimately rejects becoming that villain, and risks his own life to stay true to that principle? Or can Harvey Dent - the one who himself bought life to that quote, be seen as that Dark Knight?

In my eyes, there is simply more to justify Harvey Dent as the Dark Knight rather than the Batman. Just my 2 cents

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

ok???

[jackjack924]

No.

Harvey Dent was no knight by the end of this movie.

[Bat-Mite]

Haven't we had this topic before? But Batman is and always has been the Dark Knight. That's been his title ever since his earliest days in the comics.

[DeaDheaD]

Doesnt his tranformation make him Harvey Two-Face.........Two-Face is a villain right?

[The Chris]

Yeah Harvey isn't a knight anymore because he's no longer a hero at the end. Batman's The Dark Knight. Gordon calls him a Dark Knight at the end too.

[Shedhut]

Dent (does bad things, gets rewarded) died i as a martyr in the public's eyes as opposed to Batman (does good things, gets punished) who takes on Harvey's guilt and becomes prey.
What did you miss?

[Meus]

Doesnt his tranformation make him Harvey Two-Face..,,,,,,Two-Face is a villain right?

Yeah Harvey isn't a knight anymore because he's no longer a hero at the end. Batman's The Dark Knight. Gordon calls him a Dark Knight at the end too.

There is no distinction between Two-Face and Dent in the movie in terms of perception. The script was written in such a way where, despite the two names, they are ultimately the same person in my opinion, only Harvey just went through an inevitable transformation of hurt.

His Knight status is secured with that massive poster of him during his service at the end, he is that symbol of hope and bravery. A different kind of Knight. Everyone just assumes Batman is the real Dark Knight yet if you look at the story you will have more reason to see Dent as that Dark Knight

[storyteller]

The Knight fights for his kingdom. When Harvey becomes Two face, he ceases to fight for Gotham(only revenge for himself). He is a fallen white knight while Batman through the film is the Dark Knight. He fights for gotham but isnt the poster boy for being the man on top, the man everyone wants to be.

[Meus]

The Knight fights for his kingdom. When Harvey becomes Two face, he ceases to fight for Gotham(only revenge for himself). He is a fallen white knight while Batman through the film is the Dark Knight. He fights for gotham but isnt the poster boy for being the man on top, the man everyone wants to be.

That's a valid point, but I feel the transformation of Dent - his choice in becoming that villain, also transformed him from White to Black. Transformation here is a key point to my argument

[Nepenthes]

But he didn't transform. Ask any of the citizens of Gotham and they'll tell you, that's the truth. Harvey Dent died a hero, he remained the White Knight. While Batman is even more now the knight on the fringes, the outcast etc.

[kyuubijavi1]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or even noticed this, but I personally don't believe Batman is The Dark Knight in this story, even though admittedly that alias is inherently his own in the comic books; but this could be a clever subtext in the film by Nolan.

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

That quote is ultimately the pretext, the main theme, behind the story. I see it as an evolution to that of which proceeded it in Batman Begins with Bruce's realisation that, in his attempt to fight the criminal underworld, he as a man is as weak and as potent as any other individual in the crowd. But as a symbol, he is more, he's just enough to make a difference. So it's no surprise that Nolan uses this form of mentality to be the ingredients for the success of his films.

After seeing the movie, the most memorable character to me was not breath-taking performance of Ledger's Joker, nor Batman's grit, or even Alfred's English wit, but I was the only one who considered Harvey Dent as the protagonist in this story. His transformation and overall meaning to the story is undeniable. He is the 'White Knight', but through his transformation, wouldn't it make more sense to identify him as the 'Dark Knight'?

Yes okay, you have an opposite to this White Knight, the Batman; they're both Knights in their own sense yet why is there a difference to justify the 'White/'Dark' metaphor? Is Batman really that dark? The one who ultimately rejects becoming that villain, and risks his own life to stay true to that principle? Or can Harvey Dent - the one who himself bought life to that quote, be seen as that Dark Knight?

In my eyes, there is simply more to justify Harvey Dent as the Dark Knight rather than the Batman. Just my 2 cents



If you listin to Gordan's final words it pretty much spells out why Dent was the white knight and bat's is the dark knight

now this is off the top of my head so

Gordan in Dent's funeral :: A hero, not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed. Nothing less than a knight.

Then Gordan to his son :: Because he’s the hero Gotham deserves. But not the one it needs right now. So well hunt him cause he can take it. Because he's not a hero but a silent guardian a watchful protector, a Dark Knight.

See Gotham needed a hero with a face thats why they (gordan and bat's) chose to keep his down fall a secret so he wasnt a dark knight but a villain in the end, while batman was seen as a hero that fell so he's more of a anti hero a dark knight.

[ronny]

Gordan? Come on.

[secretsquirrely]

In regards to Harvey being the Dark Knight. They would not name a Batman movie after Two-Fac. Also, if you paid attention to the final speech of the film you hear them say clearly that Harvey is the White Knight and Batman is the Dark Knight. This is all from the public and Gordon's perception. Harvey gave everyone what they wanted. Now with Batman taking the blame for Dent's crimes, in order to keep his White Knight status, he will become the villain. Beause of such sacrifice, Batman's desire to watch over Gotham, but his will to step over boundaries, in Gordon's eyes..Batman is the Dark Knight to Harvey's White Knight.

[I Am The Knight]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or even noticed this, but I personally don't believe Batman is The Dark Knight in this story, even though admittedly that alias is inherently his own in the comic books; but this could be a clever subtext in the film by Nolan.

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”


That quote is ultimately the pretext, the main theme, behind the story. I see it as an evolution to that of which proceeded it in Batman Begins with Bruce's realisation that, in his attempt to fight the criminal underworld, he as a man is as weak and as potent as any other individual in the crowd. But as a symbol, he is more, he's just enough to make a difference. So it's no surprise that Nolan uses this form of mentality to be the ingredients for the success of his films.



After seeing the movie, the most memorable character to me was not breath-taking performance of Ledger's Joker, nor Batman's grit, or even Alfred's English wit, but I was the only one who considered Harvey Dent as the protagonist in this story. His transformation and overall meaning to the story is undeniable. He is the 'White Knight', but through his transformation, wouldn't it make more sense to identify him as the 'Dark Knight'?



Yes okay, you have an opposite to this White Knight, the Batman; they're both Knights in their own sense yet why is there a difference to justify the 'White/'Dark' metaphor? Is Batman really that dark? The one who ultimately rejects becoming that villain, and risks his own life to stay true to that principle? Or can Harvey Dent - the one who himself bought life to that quote, be seen as that Dark Knight?



In my eyes, there is simply more to justify Harvey Dent as the Dark Knight rather than the Batman. Just my 2 cents




You could argue that both Dent and Batman are Dark Knights, yes. Dent, becoming Two-Face, has become a "Dark Knight" himself, not tied to a specific "liege" if you will, now functioning outside of the system, just like Batman is. I think Nolan would appreciate some reflection on who the Dark Knight really is, but I think that both Dent AND Batman are Dark Knights by the end of TDK.

Batman and Dent are seen as two sides of the same coin throughout the whole movie. Prior to the creation of Two-Face, Dent served his White Knight role and Batman served his Dark Knight role. By the time Two-Face is unleashed, the differences between the two are blurred. Dent becomes a vigilante, and Batman is *this* close to becoming one. Ultimately, Dent as Two-Face is willing to do what Batman won't (at least willingly) in the name of justice (i.e. murder).

After Dent dies, Batman wants to preserve the White Knight/Dark Knight balance he feels society needs, and becomes Two-Face. Or rather, the murdering vigilante, so Gotham can keep their White Knight in Dent. Of course, we know better.

[Matt Mortem]

I personaly think Two-Face is alive. Batman survived that fall with a gunshot wound. (plus i just want to see more two-face)

[Beanjuice]

I personaly think Two-Face is alive. Batman survived that fall with a gunshot wound. (plus i just want to see more two-face)


again,batman was wearing armor

[nolan's roll'n]

If Dent is dead, then that is shame. Way to say he was a backbone of the story and kill him off like Venom in Spiderman 3.

[DACrowe]

He was the backbone of the story that needed to have its resolution and not end asking for a sequel. Dent was the heart of the film and his arc from adament believer in law and seeing things through a black and white lens to becoming the personification of his summation of Batman and everything he detested.

His is a tragic arc in the same mold as the Greeks or even say MacBeth as a parable. He falls from grace. The movie needed an end point for this which became his death. He died a villain, but Batman will take the blame so Dent can be the hero Gotham needs. This is not just for the sake of making Batman go on the run or for beating the Joker, but thematically Dent needed to be redeemed in some way for the tragedy to resonate.

Leaving him alive so he can appear in a sequel is not what NOlan was going to do because he wanted this movie to stand on its own and not have to be dependent on any other film (like the horrid Pirates sequels). Since Dent was the centerpiece of the movie he was not "wasted" like Venom who was merely a subplot in an already too crowded movie.

As for the dark knight business. Batman is the Dark Knight for obvious reasons. It's his namesake and also he is the one who can go outside the law without totally discarding it to help people. He is the weapon Gotham needs to combat its corruption and insanity. AS it said, he is the hero Gotham deserves. Dent was the white knight because he was a golden boy who believed in giving his life to public service and making the world a better place by helping those around him. He did it in the confines of the law.

He sees Batman as what he wishes he could do, to the point of almost crossing the line until Batman pushes him back into place. He and Batman envy each other's positions, but Batman is the dark knight because he can do what he thinks is necessary while Dent feels limited. In the end after he loses everything he crosses that line beyond "white knight" as it is already tarnished and becomes a villain. He is not heroic in killing for revenge and he surely loses a lot of his sympathy at the end wwhen he is holding a gun to a boy's head for self-satisfaction.

Oy. :rolleyes:

[bell110]

I personaly think Two-Face is alive. Batman survived that fall with a gunshot wound. (plus i just want to see more two-face)

Yeah, most likely the took him to the ICU and keep him under close psychiatric watch.

[Meus]

I can fully appreciate the arguments for Batman being seen as the real Dark Knight but these arguments focus more so on the general concept of Batman; the hidden fist of the law, the silent guardian and so on.

But in respect to the actual theme and script of this sequel, the emphasis on Dents incorruptible character and in many facets a potential replacement for Bruce's costume, and then the transformation of that White Knight into becoming that villain by choice whereas Batman himself rejects that choice - I still very much believe that there is a strong argument for Harvey Dent being the real Dark Knight aswell. How do you get something that is white to be dark? You have to make it dirty, and in the context of the film, you turn it evil, you turn it bad = Harvey Dent.

[The Caped Knight]

New photo from Andre@s
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2736/dk0006pu7.jpg

[Manosman]

I can fully appreciate the arguments for Batman being seen as the real Dark Knight but these arguments focus more so on the general concept of Batman; the hidden fist of the law, the silent guardian and so on.

But in respect to the actual theme and script of this sequel, the emphasis on Dents incorruptible character and in many facets a potential replacement for Bruce's costume, and then the transformation of that White Knight into becoming that villain by choice whereas Batman himself rejects that choice - I still very much believe that there is a strong argument for Harvey Dent being the real Dark Knight aswell. How do you get something that is white to be dark? You have to make it dirty, and in the context of the film, you turn it evil, you turn it bad = Harvey Dent.


I see what you are saying, and actually kind of agree with you in a way. Harvey is the White Knight, Batman the Dark Knight, once harvey is scarred and starts getting "justice" he is no longer the white knight, but can be seen as a dark knight in that he is still doing "right" in a sense, batman can then be seen as the white knight compared to harvey's dark knight.

harvey=white knight
batman=dark knight
scarring
two-face=dark knight
batman=white knight, compared to two-face

thematically this can work, but i wouldn't consider two-face a hero at all since he out for revenge and is unhinged mentally.

On the other hand, when harvey is scarred and goes out and kills for revenge, he is no longer the white knight, and not even a dark knight either, he is now a villain. batman is still the dark knight because he doesn't use conventional ways of fighting crime, he is still doing good but its in a dark way.

harvey=white knight
Batman=dark knight
scarring
two-face=villain
batman=dark knight

citizens view:
harvey=white knight
batman=wanted murderer


whew

[DW4]

If Dent is dead, then that is shame. Way to say he was a backbone of the story and kill him off like Venom in Spiderman 3.

Comparing Two-Face from TDK and Venom from SP3 IMHO is just dumb.

[nolan's roll'n]

Comparing Two-Face from TDK and Venom from SP3 IMHO is just dumb.

My point was that both died and were vital characters.

[DACrowe]

I can fully appreciate the arguments for Batman being seen as the real Dark Knight but these arguments focus more so on the general concept of Batman; the hidden fist of the law, the silent guardian and so on.

But in respect to the actual theme and script of this sequel, the emphasis on Dents incorruptible character and in many facets a potential replacement for Bruce's costume, and then the transformation of that White Knight into becoming that villain by choice whereas Batman himself rejects that choice - I still very much believe that there is a strong argument for Harvey Dent being the real Dark Knight aswell. How do you get something that is white to be dark? You have to make it dirty, and in the context of the film, you turn it evil, you turn it bad = Harvey Dent.


I understand what you're saying but it boils down to it that Dent wasn't seeking justice. He was seeking revenge and Nolan made it very clear how simple vengeance is viewed in these films in BB with "They're never the same thing. Justice is about harmony, revenge is about making yourself feel better."

Dent even let it come down to a coin flip and was thereby removing himself from the decision in his own head. He can say chance killed them, but it is a psychological crutch so he doesn't have to choose to say the word "die." But he is ultimately the real villain who is out for revenge.

There is no justice to be found in holding a gun to Gordon's family. He is not a knight and he is not justified. He may be self-righteous still but he has clearly lost his mind and could not see beyond his own pain. Batman is the dark knight because he is still crusading to help people and not ease his own insecurities like Two-Face was.

It also helps that the last line of the movie is Gordon calling Batman the dark knight. ;)

[DACrowe]

My point was that both died and were vital characters.

Not really. Two-Face was a vital point to the movie. In fact I'd say Harvey Dent is the centerpiece of the movie. Batman may be the leading hero/protagonist and Joker may be the scene stealing character with equal time as Dent, but Dent is the character that propels the plot. The movie truly begins and ends with his arc.

Two-Face is a vital character in the movie who in his short screentime as a villain leaves his mark and is fully utilized and realized. His confrontation with Batman and Gordon is the true climax of the movie and is built up to naturally and heartbreakingly without any flinching awkwardness. Two-Face is the point of the movie and his death concludes the themes of the movie in tragedy, but strong resolution.

Venom was a subplot in SM3 that was given as little screentime as possible by the writer and director after he was shoe-horned in several drafts into the film. He then was given awkward intrusions to be developed and his turn to villainy felt arbitrary rather than natural and when he was killed off, it was more done out of formulaic convenience, even if there was symbolism in his death, it is mostly lost.

Venom was a needless and messy subplot, Two-Face was the heart of TDK. I don't see the comparison as apt.

[ronny]

When Harvey was being put into the police van why were some people clapping?

[TheLongestDay]

He's NOT dead-sorry if this is old:

Aaron Eckhart would reprise his role from The Dark Knight - because working with Christian Bale is "phenomenal".

Eckhart, who plays District Attorney Harvey Dent in the sequel, confesses he "absolutely" would star in a third Batman film.

He tells WENN, "To work with Christian (Bale) all over again, and the cast, would be phenomenal. I think this movie is a movie of a lifetime."

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

When Harvey was being put into the police van why were some people clapping?

Commending him for taking the fall as The Batman.

[cerealkiller182]

When Harvey was being put into the police van why were some people clapping?

It was either to applaud him for his actions as Batman (as he just admitted to it), or because Batman had finally been caught.

[TheLongestDay]

When Harvey was being put into the police van why were some people clapping?

cuz at that point most people thought he was Batman-thats why he was arrested.

So they were clapping him for that,notice the corrupt coppers werent tho ;)

[Anita18]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.
My writer friend was saying how it's a difficult line for an actor to pull off, because there's no natural rhythm to it. She thought Aaron did a great job with that line.

Dent lived to become a villain, but when he died, Batman and Gordon made him the hero. Batman is "incorruptible" according to Joker and thus still "heroic," but to the public, he's the villain now.

[AIRWOLF]

Yep, Dent did become the villain but he died a hero in eyes of the public. I wonder how Batman is going to clear his name though.

[DieSmiling]

In reality, Harvey lived long enough to become the villain. There's no doubt about that... But the line applies to Batman in the eyes of the public as well.

[Quinzel]

Yep, Dent did become the villain but he died a hero in eyes of the public. I wonder how Batman is going to clear his name though.

I don't think Batman is to worried about clearing his name.

I'm thinking IF they make another movie,it'll probably be based off of the Batman Fugitive comics.

or something similiar. But without all of the others, such as Nightwing.

.....maybe not. lol.:hq:

[raynorWilm]

Yea, Harvey lived long enough to see himself become the villian, but because Batman takes the blame for the murders, he therefore allows for Harvey to die a hero....pretty crafty if you ask me..

[Anjow1060]

first of all, the line was a misdirection, thinking people were talking about Harvey becoming two-face, when in fact the line is directed toward Batman and the idolism and views of Gotham and what he'll have to do eventually for the best of his city.

second of all, the worst line in the movie is "Will you be wanting the bat-pod sir?"

ugh. I hated that line ever since the first I heard it in the trailer.

- Jow

[Quinzel]

first of all, the line was a misdirection, thinking people were talking about Harvey becoming two-face, when in fact the line is directed toward Batman and the idolism and views of Gotham and what he'll have to do eventually for the best of his city.

second of all, the worst line in the movie is "Will you be wanting the bat-pod sir?"

ugh. I hated that line ever since the first I heard it in the trailer.

- Jow

Not that i disagree with you about the batpod line (i'm completly apathetic about it) But out of curosity, why do you hate it so much?

[Anita18]

Not that i disagree with you about the batpod line (i'm completly apathetic about it) But out of curosity, why do you hate it so much?
I thought it was a nice nod to Year One, when Alfred asks Bruce if he'll be wearing his "tights" to rescue Gordon's son, and Bruce goes, "Never during the day, Alfred."

[Steyin]

Script says broken neck, DEAD (yes in capital letters). I don't care what Eckhart says, I'm going by the script as the official voice on the matter.

[Quinzel]

I thought it was a nice nod to Year One, when Alfred asks Bruce if he'll be wearing his "tights" to rescue Gordon's son, and Bruce goes, "Never during the day, Alfred."
haha, i never even thought about that! lol.

[cerealkiller182]

Either way is probable. Its a rather silly argument in general. He easily died, and they could easily write him back in.

I personally dont want him to return because I loved the transformation and character arc.

[Quinzel]

I don't think he's dead, but i'm not really sure that they're gonna bring him back.

I kinda hope they move on to the mad hatter. (just cause he hasn't been in a movie yet, and i think Nolan could do him some justice.)

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.

Well it is a comic book movie when it comes down to it, and thats a very comic bookish line, what do you expect??

[Quinzel]

I don't think it was a bad line. I just don't think he delivered it right.

like the "Dark Knight" line would have been cheesy if it hadn't have been for gary oldman.

[ronny]

Commending him for taking the fall as The Batman.

I thought so too but when I watched the credits I saw someone credited as "heckling cop" and though it may refer to that scene.
Or would that be the press confrence?

[DACrowe]

He's NOT dead-sorry if this is old:

Aaron Eckhart would reprise his role from The Dark Knight - because working with Christian Bale is "phenomenal".

Eckhart, who plays District Attorney Harvey Dent in the sequel, confesses he "absolutely" would star in a third Batman film.

He tells WENN, "To work with Christian (Bale) all over again, and the cast, would be phenomenal. I think this movie is a movie of a lifetime."

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

:whatever:

It is playing coy to a certain question before people see the movie.

In 2006 James Franco "ponders" doing a Spider-Man 4.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=364137

In 2001 Liam Neeson talked about being in Episode II:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41662,00.html

Look how those turned out.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I thought so too but when I watched the credits I saw someone credited as "heckling cop" and though it may refer to that scene.
Or would that be the press confrence?

thats probably the cop at the press conference that says "No more dead cops!"

[Quinzel]

thats probably the cop at the press conference that says "No more dead cops!"

Dude i hated that guy.

I think i would have punched him and said "How about no dead ANYBODY, Butthole!!" lol.

[TheLongestDay]

Script says broken neck, DEAD (yes in capital letters). I don't care what Eckhart says, I'm going by the script as the official voice on the matter.

Scripts change all the time,all the way through shooting-and seeing as one of the scripts writers was also the director theres even more possibility for change.

[The Caped Knight]

I loved that Harv's coin was a double heads coin not only is it a great forshadowing & Analogy to Two-Face .

[Beanjuice]

I loved that Harv's coin was a double heads coin not only is it a great forshadowing & Analogy to Two-Face .



:huh: thats how it was in the comics

[laudanum09]

:huh: thats how it was in the comics

lol. you cant have two-face without the coin. Quick question, since in TAS, Harvey was scarred in a similar fashion, i wonder if the coin was also scarred in the accident...I don't quite remember, anyone else wanna chime in? I think that'd be another nice parallel to TAS. Although TDK didnt play on harvey's split personality so much in the clinical sense, it did definitely do a great job of showing how easily his crusade could reveal glints of rage and madness.

[The Caped Knight]

:huh: thats how it was in the comics

I know but it wasn't like that in Batman forever . I also like the TLH nod about how it was Dent's father's lucky coin .

[The Caped Knight]

New Harvey images from Andre@s
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1920/dk0019xm7.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/9614/dk0021hb1.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5189/dk0020zc3.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9271/dk0022bs0.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8066/dk0023kq0.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3337/dk0024ed2.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2205/dk0026ef3.jpg

[The Caped Knight]

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2075/dk0025cm3.jpg

[Mastodon123]

Those who say theres no way Two-Face is coming back in the 3rd film can STFU now.

Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html

There you have it, someone close to the film, and also Nolan's wife saying Two-Face is possibly alive.

[DarthDaveBanner]

In 2001 Liam Neeson talked about being in Episode II:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41662,00.html

Look how those turned out.


Neeson's character had lines in the episode 2 AND episode 3 script.
Both scenes were cut.

[ronny]

Some of those new pictures are brilliant. Did anyone catch when Harvey was getting schizo in the movie? The different takes they were talking about? It was all so seamless that I never noticed when he was being Harvey or when he was being Two-Face.

[Rikxiepoo]

Script says broken neck, DEAD (yes in capital letters). I don't care what Eckhart says, I'm going by the script as the official voice on the matter.

In the Transformers script and novelization it said that Barricade was destroyed by Optimus, yet in the movie you don't see such scene and, in fact, hes in the sequel now too.

Nuff said.

[Toxin72]

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2075/dk0025cm3.jpg

Is this the from the scene where he first gets burnt?

[Rezzo]

Is this the from the scene where he first gets burnt?

Yes.

[ronny]

Must be, the green dots were probably for all the fire that would be added later by the technical monkies.

[Dr. Crane]

i think Emma ( Nolan's wife and producer) saying that it was left ambiguous was brilliant.. people will watch the movie again just for that scene... did two-face breath at all?.. memorizing the dialogue.. just in case it's different from the script... just brilliant... fuel for the arguement..

this doesn't mean we will ever get the answer of coarse.. i mean if we didn't get the answer in this movie.. who's to say it we will get in the next one... they mat never tell us..

IMO... dead.. bring on Catwoman and Bane...

[Rikxiepoo]

i think Emma ( Nolan's wife and producer) saying that it was left ambiguous was brilliant.. people will watch the movie again just for that scene... did two-face breath at all?.. memorizing the dialogue.. just in case it's different from the script... just brilliant... fuel for the arguement..

Indeed.

this doesn't mean we will ever get the answer of coarse.. i mean if we didn't get the answer in this movie.. who's to say it we will get in the next one...

Well thats the whole point. You dont reveal it 100% in order to keep that air of mysteriousness around the third film. Keeps people wondering and fans having geekasms.

bring on Catwoman and Bane...

I agree with this part, but adding Two-Face in there :).

[Shane Diesel]

i think Emma ( Nolan's wife and producer) saying that it was left ambiguous was brilliant.. people will watch the movie again just for that scene... did two-face breath at all?.. memorizing the dialogue.. just in case it's different from the script... just brilliant... fuel for the arguement..

this doesn't mean we will ever get the answer of coarse.. i mean if we didn't get the answer in this movie.. who's to say it we will get in the next one... they mat never tell us..

IMO... dead.. bring on Catwoman and Bane...

I agree simply b/c we're getting mixed signals. Jonah Nolan said in an interview that two face is dead and Emma Roberts is saying there's some ambiguity.

I personally think he's dead b/c Gordon waited around while the cops swarmed the place. I doubt Dent would've been able to just get up and disappear without someone noticing him. He'd be struggling to get himself up and Gordon would have noticed. I also don't buy the whole Gordon locked him up in Arkham argument. That sounds way too contrived.

[Beanjuice]

Is this the from the scene where he first gets burnt?


no they're mud wrestling :cwink:

[weezerspider]

How is it cheesy? It is perfect foreshadowing and even better allegorically speaking. Harvey Dent died a hero to the public's eyes and Batman lived long enough to become the villian in the public's eyes but it was actually reverse.

It was the way Dent said it during the dinner scene. It just came out forced and cheesey. When Batman says it at the end its perfect.

[Shane Diesel]

It was the way Dent said it during the dinner scene. It just came out forced and cheesey. When Batman says it at the end its perfect.

I think it fit the moment. When couples are out to dinner having fun and have had a couple of drinks they can ham things up a bit when they're conversing.

[Indrid Cold]

http://a513.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/30/l_7ead3ab20c019392a98c40b02f954fb8.gif ....So who thinks Harvey Dent is not actually dead but, secretly admited to Arkham?

[Mangelo]

Dent is breathing at the end. Whether it's a mistake or not, he's breathing at the end. And it has nothing to do with the camera movement. Bottom Line: Emma Thomas was brilliant to say it's ambiguous.

[Dr. Crane]

jeeeez.... i got to see it again and watch Aaron to see if he breathes.. good god... haha.. uh no... sorry... he's dead. (IMO)..

but i'll be watching it again none the less...

[ronny]

If Dent ever returns (A big "if", dependant on whether he's alive or dead) I'd like to see his gang be comprised of the ex Citizens For Batman members. He wants to clean up Gotham at the barrel of a gun and so do they.
But I think it would be interesting in the comics and films if he made a habbit of giving his gang a "trial" after each job. Because he despises having to break the law but has to do so to acomplish his goals.
It would be cool to explore why anyone would work for the freaks when you're taking your life in your hands by doing so.

[Beanjuice]

i saw tdk again tonight an i noticed something. Joker says Dent is at 250,52nd street. 2..50 as in 50/50. 50,2nd street. kinda awesome if ya ask me

[Toxin72]

I have a question about two face. I don't know much about the comics at all but does two-face have two personalities in the comics? If so what do fans think about the fact that he doesn't in this film?

[Beanjuice]

I have a question about two face. I don't know much about the comics at all but does two-face have two personalities in the comics? If so what do fans think about the fact that he doesn't in this film?


it is two personalities but in both comics and th film their are not exaggerated to the point that you know. its more like an inner torment where good in him is conflicting with evil,and he believe that there are two sides to everything,and so he leaves his decisions to chance.

[FoJacob]

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. If Harvey's dead, okay, too bad but I can live with it. If he's alive, great, I'll be glad to see him again.

But I'd like to hear from those of you who feel strongly that he is dead. Would you feel cheated if he were to pop up again in the next film? Would it lessen your opinion of Nolan and company, or would you just kind of shrug your shoulders and go along with it?

[Ziggyman]

...He's alive...

[Rincewind]

But I'd like to hear from those of you who feel strongly that he is dead. Would you feel cheated if he were to pop up again in the next film

Not so much cheated, as disappointed.
And yes - I liked Two-Face in TDK almost as much as the Joker, but the way things developed in the end of the movie, he MUST be dead. Only that way the arc is closed and the ending makes sense.



Would it lessen your opinion of Nolan and company

Immensely. If they bring back Ra's or Two-Face with some half-assed explanation like "Ha, I jumped from the train in the first movie, now tremble! What? What does it mean "who the hell are you?", you are just a regular moviegoer and you don't remember the villain in a 5-6 year old movie, shatap!" or "Hmm... Look, Jim, Two-Face is alive, heh? Well, let's put him secretly in Arkham then, like a jar of jam in a cellar. Because, who cares that this is public asylum and the word would spread quickly as hell? Aaaand... you give him a fake public funeral, you hear? Yeah, I'm taking the blame for his crimes now, no matter that he is alive and it's gonna be clear to everyone who sees him that he's gone insane and evil, gotta go now!"

Just... bring new guys for the third movie, if there is one, and be done with it.

[ronny]

Has anyone here read the Two-Face story in Joker's Asylum? One of the better Two-Face stories around at the moment. And I hope that this movie creates a new interest in the character and leads to a better role for Dent in the comics. Rather than the tired "Harvey gets his face repaired" angle.

[Rincewind]

Yeah, it was nice. Especially the part when Two-Face revealed that the tied Batman was fake and the gun was empty, and everything the guy should have done was to pull the trigger instead of trying to be a hero. It was a nice twist.

I didn't like the art at all tho.

[ronny]

I don't know, it was nice to see Two-Face without green or purple skin.

[Ace of Knaves]

i know this interpritation of two face isn't a schizo, but i would of liked to see some conflict within himself. maybe a scene where hes deciding what to do with weurtz and cant decide. Maybe his bad side and good side are arguing with each other ala Gollum in LOTR (but obviously not comedic) and then he decides to flip on it?

[Allan31]

Harvy is dead, Two-Face is alive.
Nolan was careful to show us that a fall from three stories up would not kill Sally. Count the floors as Maroni falls. When Batman saves Gordons kid, he then falls three floors. Batman and Two-Face fell three floors.
The cops surrounded the building, batman runs away, cops in pursuit. Gordon and son walk off. Nobody watching Two-Face.

[Ace of Knaves]

yea i was thinking that, with all the cops chasing batman two-face could of easily skulked off down a alley. also i noted when harvey was talking to gordon on the roof
"you brought your cops?!?"
"they only know the situation, not who or what it is."

[Dr. Crane]

it seems they were careful to leave it ambiguous. . . but man did they do a great job at providing fuel for both sides of the argument..

sure the moroni quote and the height of the falls are similar... you can argue both points.. and i'm sure people will for quite some time... so cleverly done..

i think he's gone... loved him in the movie... Aaron did such a great job...
but personally... i've fallen from heights like that... i wasn't knocked out... and it hurt like hell.. and there's no way i was quiet.. actually embarrassing on how much yelling occurred afterward... but like i said... PAIN.

and if you're gonna say he got knocked out by hitting his head?... sorry.. that blow to the head would kill you for sure.. my bones did break... i made a lot of noise and was in a lot of pain... and there was a lot of blood... but i didn't expect them to show that either.... pg-13 and all..

i just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for him to be not breathing.. not making a sound... but alive... could it happen?.. of coarse.. it's a movie.. but Nolan likes to claim realism... well.. if he survived that fall for real... he would have been moaning in pain to say the least...

just like moroni was..

[tuffenoughtoroc]

Dent is breathing at the end. Whether it's a mistake or not, he's breathing at the end. And it has nothing to do with the camera movement. Bottom Line: Emma Thomas was brilliant to say it's ambiguous.


He doesn't breathe at the end. I've seen it three times and watched carefully and there are absolutely no signs of life!

And it would make no sense if he really was breathing and nobody did anything about it. Gordon or Batman would clearly see it.

[Closerframe]

Two-Face didn't even want to live, he even says it to Gordan. "Do you think I wanna escape from this? There is no escape!" he knew he would die one way or another. The whole him being secretly placed into Arkham is the dumbest idea. I mean no one will notice its Harvey Dent. Yea I doubt that.

[Yurka]

Two-Face didn't even want to live, he even says it to Gordan. "Do you think I wanna escape from this? There is no escape!" he knew he would die one way or another. The whole him being secretly placed into Arkham is the dumbest idea. I mean no one will notice its Harvey Dent. Yea I doubt that.

:huh:, I didnt fall under that impression at all, it came off to me that he was actually starting to embrace it. :o

[ronny]

So, once he made things "even" by killing Gordon's son, where did he really think things would go from there?

[Saint.Manuel]

After Dent dies, Batman wants to preserve the White Knight/Dark Knight balance he feels society needs, and becomes Two-Face. Or rather, the murdering vigilante, so Gotham can keep their White Knight in Dent. Of course, we know better.

This is the Point why I think that Dent is still allive!
In the next film it somehow has to be told that Batman didn´t commit those murders. Otherwise they wouldn´t accept him or trust him that he want´s to save the people of Gotham.
They somehow have to tell that it was Dent/TwoFace and the only way you can do that is by having him as a living character in the Movie.
Noone would believe them if they just say it wasn´t Batman.

So in my Opinion, Dent is alive and will return in the next one!
What do you think about that?

[SKSpawn]

So, once he made things "even" by killing Gordon's son, where did he really think things would go from there?

Considering the fact that he put the gun to his own head during his russian roulette, I assumed that he was going to kill ll the people who hurt him, even things with Gordon, maybe kill Batman and then kill himself. Either way he would have died from his injuries sooner or later. The fact that Two-Face is only active for a few hours isn't as unbelievable considering his injuries as if he was running around like that for the rest of his life.

[Beanjuice]

Considering the fact that he put the gun to his own head during his russian roulette, I assumed that he was going to kill ll the people who hurt him, even things with Gordon, maybe kill Batman and then kill himself. Either way he would have died from his injuries sooner or later. The fact that Two-Face is only active for a few hours isn't as unbelievable considering his injuries as if he was running around like that for the rest of his life.


not necessarily. Its not like he couldnt get proper medical help. Just because he refused skin grafts doenst mean that he couldnt live like that with a little aid. The burns would eventually heal over and his face would be left mangled

[The Caped Knight]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6484/dk0034om8.jpg
by Andre@s

[Two-Face]

"You make your own luck"



Eckhart was great! :up: and Kal-El & Ander@s thanks

[tuffenoughtoroc]

not necessarily. Its not like he couldnt get proper medical help. Just because he refused skin grafts doenst mean that he couldnt live like that with a little aid. The burns would eventually heal over and his face would be left mangled


The bones, tendons, and muscles were exposed. There's no way he could survive without getting an infection.

[Spade]

How quickly can an infection set in and debilitate him? It isn't like he was out wandering around for days. In the context of the film, I think it's plausible enough in a city with men in bat-themed costumes and sociopathic clowns.

[Crook]

The question is why is it even an issue? The Two-Face look was relatively faithful to the comic book and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

[tuffenoughtoroc]

The question is why is it even an issue? The Two-Face look was relatively faithful to the comic book and I wouldn't have had it any other way.


I agree 100%. But it's sometimes fun to look at it in a realistic way.

[Zmoker]

So , er ... remember all that talk about a prosthetic on his left side with cg enhancements?

Um .... did they lie? :huh:



http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2075/dk0025cm3.jpg

[The Battousai]

So , er ... remember all that talk about a prosthetic on his left side with cg enhancements?

Um .... did they lie? :huh:



http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2075/dk0025cm3.jpg

Uh....




This was BEFORE he had the Two-Face look.

[Zmoker]

Nope, go straight to the bottom of the class, do not collect £200 ...

It's his death scene, hence the abandoned warehouse location and burnt left side of suit.

Plus, that's the only point in the film Harve is lying flat on his back so all debate from where it's from is moot.

No prosthetic, Face was a 100% cgi job.

[The Battousai]

Nope, go straight to the bottom of the class, do not collect £200 ...

It's his death scene, hence the abandoned warehouse location and burnt left side of suit.

Plus, that's the only point in the film Harve is lying flat on his back so all debate from where it's from is moot.

No prosthetic, Face was a 100% cgi job.

Actually, you're wrong in a few ways.

The presence of a street curb and the absence of gravel-covered ground show that this is not the death scene, but the scene in which he intially gets torched by the explosion (the first time he's lying flat on his back :cwink:).

The burnt side of the suit was much more detailed later on in the film when it was far more noticable. Here it was partially burned away in order to give the CG overlay a little more of a basis to work with.

Also, the main reason for the tracking dots would seem to be for the CG flames protruding from his face and suit in this scene.

[Lots o lafs]

Dent doesn't die you will see. It's all part of the plan!

[Ace of Knaves]

yea that is deffinatly the scene where his face gets burnt, its where hes rolling around on his back screaming and batmans trying to put the flames out.

[Zmoker]

QUOTE: Actually, you're wrong in a few ways.

The presence of a street curb and the absence of gravel-covered ground show that this is not the death scene, but the scene in which he intially gets torched by the explosion (the first time he's lying flat on his back ).

The burnt side of the suit was much more detailed later on in the film when it was far more noticable. Here it was partially burned away in order to give the CG overlay a little more of a basis to work with.

Also, the main reason for the tracking dots would seem to be for the CG flames protruding from his face and suit in this scene. QUOTE.



Spoken like a true detective, sir.

Seems I have no choice but to offer a full apology, accept that frankly top notch analysis, and ponder my own, er ... losing face.

I still want to SEE a pic of Eckhart wearing that elusive facial prosthetic though, dammit! Is there even one out there? The teeth and eye were 100% cg weren't they? but what about the rest?

The only parts that looked touchable-plasticky to me were the burn wealds over his nose, so I assumed they were the actual prosthetic?

Hmmmm, it has been bugging me ....




__________________

[The Battousai]

Spoken like a true detective, sir.

Seems I have no choice but to offer a full apology, accept that frankly top notch analysis, and ponder my own, er ... losing face.

I still want to SEE a pic of Eckhart wearing that elusive facial prosthetic though, dammit! Is there even one out there? The teeth and eye were 100% cg weren't they? but what about the rest?

The only parts that looked touchable-plasticky to me were the burn wealds over his nose, so I assumed they were the actual prosthetic?

Hmmmm, it has been bugging me ....

We all make mistakes :O

I also want to see this prosthetic - even more so how they managed to make the CG look so damn real...

At least the DVD/Blu-Ray will come out before X-mas :woot:

[Brian Braddock]

Maybe I'm missing something here - but could the prosthetic that everyone is talking about simply have been a green/blue cover in order for the SFX department to render the CG scarring?

Much like the way they did the effects for Arnold's face/skull towards the end of Terminator 3.

[The Battousai]

Maybe I'm missing something here - but could the prosthetic that everyone is talking about simply have been a green/blue cover in order for the SFX department to render the CG scarring?

Much like the way they did the effects for Arnold's face/skull towards the end of Terminator 3.

You can see the makeup in the last scene in this clip:
9rw3-0BOyXo

[tarekk]

:huh::huh:Why no photo for (TWO FACE) like photo (JOKER)?

[dark_b]

So , er ... remember all that talk about a prosthetic on his left side with cg enhancements?

Um .... did they lie? :huh:




then please tell me why are there green dots on the suti? why do they have to motion track the suit?

because of the fire. hes suit was also burning. so this is the burning scene.

[Symbiote666]

You can see the makeup in the last scene in this clip:
9rw3-0BOyXo

Video is gone. Got a different link? I assume it was an official video yes? Nothing illegal.

[ronny]

Anybody notice the differences between the Dent and Two-Face persona? I found that very interesting to watch. After the accident I think it was Harvey who was seething with rage and screaming. But when he got into Two-Face mode you could see all emotion leave him. He had this vacant, dead look to him which was downright scary.
It reminded me of a crocodile, they seem so still and almost look asleep but without warning they snap into action.
That's how Eckhart's Two-Face seemed, he was like a Zombie of Chance just as The Joker was an Agent of Chaos.

[Symbiote666]

That's how Eckhart's Two-Face seemed, he was like a Zombie of Chance...

That really made me lol.

"Braaains.... possibly.. Braaains..... possibly"

[ronny]

But it seems an accurate description of him though. That's the scary thing about him, at certain points he is completely emotionless, just watch him when he says: "That's funny, I don't know what's going to happen to you either". He looks totally blank, completely controlled by the flip of the coin. It's scary, he really does look like a zombie, going forward emotionlessly. And yet he'll suddenly snap and start screaming at people.
Eckhart gave us such a unique performance, I hope he gets the credit he deserves.

[Greg]

Nevermind

[Two_Face]

Two-Face was really done well in the movie, I loved seeing him. Hopefully, he shall return in the sequel.

[The Chris]

He was definately the Two-face I always wanted to see and the Harvey Dent I always rooted for. Excellent.

[Two_Face]

Totally agree. He played the role to perfection and was very similar to the Dent we got in the animated series and it was cool to see that.

[magicangel1989]

Best Aaron Eckhart role ever! He plays both sides of the coin very, very well. I am very surprised at how young he looks for his age. He really is a amazing actor. Now i can't see anyone else play Harvey Dent/ Harvey Two Face as well as he could.

And the burns on the side of his face....CREEEPPY but in a good sort of way.:grin:

[Two_Face]

He should return in the sequel and team up with another villain...maybe the Riddler or Bane or something.

[TNC9852002]

Nah. That seems too generic. Rachel's dead, Maroni's dead, the Joker got the best of him and is in prison, Gordon learned his lesson and so did Batman/Bruce.

Two-Face doesn't need to come back for ANY reason.

Bring on Catwoman, Hugo Strange, and The Riddler.

-TNC

[Compi716]

I hope Two-Face returns. Him coming out of the woodwork would certainly make the Gotham public realize that Batman is, in fact, innocent.

Besides, who wouldn't want to see a scene where Crane busts out of his cell in Arkham (by spraying the guard, and then making him open the cell), releases the other "high-profile" inmates (like the Joker), and then decides to leave. Only then, before Crane and Joker leave, Crane notices an unmarked cell. Joker starts laughing, knowing who's inside it. They approach it, and BAM! Two-Face.

Crane: Aren't you supposed to be dead?
Joker: Heh. Only half.

Then the three of them break out. Of course, it's later revealed that it was the Riddler that gave Crane the gas he needed to break out.

Come ON, who doesn't want to see something like that? Who REALLY wants Two-Face to be dead?!

[TheAgentOfChaos]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/pepperz09/Joker/jokervandalize1.jpg
:woot:

[ronny]

I hope Two-Face returns. Him coming out of the woodwork would certainly make the Gotham public realize that Batman is, in fact, innocent.

Besides, who wouldn't want to see a scene where Crane busts out of his cell in Arkham (by spraying the guard, and then making him open the cell), releases the other "high-profile" inmates (like the Joker), and then decides to leave. Only then, before Crane and Joker leave, Crane notices an unmarked cell. Joker starts laughing, knowing who's inside it. They approach it, and BAM! Two-Face.

Crane: Aren't you supposed to be dead?
Joker: Heh. Only half.

Then the three of them break out. Of course, it's later revealed that it was the Riddler that gave Crane the gas he needed to break out.

Come ON, who doesn't want to see something like that? Who REALLY wants Two-Face to be dead?!

I would not want to see something like that because Two-Face, despite being one of them, hates the freaks. Maybe he embraces how different he has become but it's still the same ol' Harvey, trying to get rid of the gangsters. The Joker even says something to that effect in the comics.
He'd never agree to break out with those two, I don't think it would even come down to a coin toss.

[Compi716]

Oh, but he has. Check out Dark Victory. Sure, he doesn't leave with them per se, but when he's given the chance to get out of Arkham, he takes it. Even if it means working with the freaks to get what he wants.

Again, if anyone doubts whether or not Two-Face's return would be pointless, just read Dark Victory.

[TNC9852002]

Come ON, who doesn't want to see something like that? Who REALLY wants Two-Face to be dead?!
*raises hand high*

-TNC

[Rincewind]

Again, if anyone doubts whether or not Two-Face's return would be pointless, just read Dark Victory.

It's the Joker's return that would be pointless.

A Two-Face one would be... out of place and diminishing the finale of TDK, but not pointless, I agree.

See, the difference here with TLH and DV is that by the end of TLH Two-Face wasn't... you know... dead.

[Compi716]

I don't get it, TNC...why?

[Kaizer]

I don't get it, TNC...why?

If you loved TDK as much as the rest of us, you'll understand why. If Two-Face is alive, the whole purpose of the story is lost.

[Spade]

The first way to know that the sequel to this is lame is if they revive Two-Face. Like it's been said, the point of The Dark Knight would be lost for no rational reason at all (seeing as how Batman has a healthy number of villains that wouldn't require that).

[Compi716]

If you loved TDK as much as the rest of us, you'll understand why. If Two-Face is alive, the whole purpose of the story is lost.
Don't make assumptions. I do love TDK, probably as much as the rest of you. But I love the comic lore more. Reviving Two-Face does not have to mar the "purpose of the story." If anything, it can continue it.

Take a look at The Long Halloween. Very similar type of ending (albeit Two-Face is caught rather than killed). Now, could they have just left it there? Yes. The story illustrated the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, and showed what happened when you give in to the darkest parts of your personality. The fact is, however, that they ran with it. They brought Harvey back.

A talented storyteller is one who can take something that most feel cannot be done, and turn it into something brilliant. There is no reason why Two-Face can't be alive. Just because some are of the opinion that it would take away from the "whole purpose" of the story doesn't mean it has to.

[Nitemare]

i cant believe he killed the driver i was like OMGZ GAWDZZZ

[ronny]

I don't mind Two-Face returning. As long as he is portrayed like he was in TDK and the Sale and Loeb books. Basically a bloodthirsty vigilante with a twisted obsession with chance.
Two-Face should never commit traditional crimes like robbing banks. Harvey Dent was the White Knight, something mythical and noble. But Two-Face is like a dose of reality into that view, he cannot trust the courts or the cops and so has to clean up the city through ruthless and unethical means.
He's quite moralistic really.

[thcapedcrusader]

i really hope they bring two-face back for the 3rd movie..

[nolan's roll'n]

i really hope they bring two-face back for the 3rd movie..

Agreed.

[Ziggyman]

I'm pretty sure he is alive...Question is though...How did they get him out of the building...And how long his disfigurement will last as a secret.

When Batman left that building at the end...Didn't all the cops chase after him...If so...This will allow Gordon and others to get Harvey out of there undetected...Right?

[Keyser Soze]

I'm pretty sure he is alive...Question is though...How did they get him out of the building...And how long his disfigurement will last as a secret.

When Batman left that building at the end...Didn't all the cops chase after him...If so...This will allow Gordon and others to get Harvey out of there undetected...Right?

Now I'm getting the image of Gordon and his son hoisting Harvey into their trunk.

[Two_Face]

Lol, I could see Oldman dragging the body away, taking him to Arkham, and having him admitted underwraps. With him being Commissioner now he could have that type of thing done.

[tuffenoughtoroc]

I think Two-Face is better off dead. As much as I loved the character, his ending was a perfect balance of tragedy and fairness. I personally don't want to see him in a third film.

[Two_Face]

Man, Two-Face needs more time in the media. We didn't get him in "The Batman" and he didn't have a lot of episodes in TAS. Him being in a third movie wouldn't hurt anything.

[Awesomeguy30]

Lets all go see this masterpiece of The Dark Knight ONE MORE TIME so we can make this monster even bigger!

[Two_Face]

I would but don't have the money at the moment so you guy's go ahead and make this phenomenon bigger than it already is!

[DACrowe]

I think the mainstream didn't give a flying **** about Two-Face before this film. The only good adaptation of him in the mainstream before now was TAS, which I actually think was one of the weaker adaptations that show did, still (DON'T HIT ME!). Other than that he wasn't in the TV show, any of the cartoons and his appearance in Batman Forever was forgettable as a one-note Joker-wannabe who was Riddler's sidekick.

Such an amazing character in the comics (especially in TLH/DV), yet the mainstream knew very little about. He is well known now. Yeah, Joker is the show they got to see but most will remember Harvey Dent as a tragic figure and Two-Face's importance in the movie's end to know he was a great villain, then.

[krisl]

I thought Eckhart did a great job but I felt the introduction of Two-Face was rushed and the character could have easily survived into a third film. Much like EPIII, his turn to madness seemed a tad enforced. Despite some grim things happening to him too it still seemed implausible and like EPIII seeing a slightly "bad" side to him previously still didn't help convince. I think with more time it would have been great to see the actual character of Two-Face evolve.I also think it's a bit of waste to set up a relationship with Maroni yet choose to give him his scars by accident so to speak due to an explosion. That didn't make much sense to me. If they'd followed the acid in face route (and less severe injuries) it might have also been a bit more believable to have him walking around and talking, a real stretch as it sits considering how serious his burns are.

[TNC9852002]

I think the idea of someone throwing acid around in someone's face is LESS believable if you ask me.

-TNC

[adamwe]

I think the idea of someone throwing acid around in someone's face is LESS believable if you ask me.

-TNC
I agree. If it eat through his jaw and around his eye what prevents it from going down his throat (see Commissioner Loeb) or destroying his eye completely.

[TNC9852002]

Do we know Two Face's total body count in the movie, yet? Who were the "two of them cops"?

-Wuertz
-Maroni
-Maroni's driver
-Maroni's bodyguard
-????
-????

-TNC

[Welshguy78]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250281494149&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DSelling


Think you guys might get a kick out of this.

"I Believe in Harvey Dent" Badges/Buttons/Pins.

Let me know what you think.

[Bat-Mite]

Do we know Two Face's total body count in the movie, yet? Who were the "two of them cops"?

-Wuertz
-Maroni
-Maroni's driver
-Maroni's bodyguard
-????
-????

-TNCWuertz was a cop, so he was one of the two. The only other explanation I can think for the other one was the cop that the Joker shot. He was in Harvey's room (and they didn't know the Joker was actually present at the hospital), so I guess they assumed Harvey killed him. Though how they'd know the cop was in his room from all that rubble is beyond me.

[DACrowe]

I'm gonna' guess they might think Ramirez is dead as she is not responding to calls and messages and Gordon knew Dent already thought she was dirty from the beginning.

She'll turn up alive. I bet in BB3 when they talk about the "crimes" Batman committed and eulogize Dent (which I'm sure will happen) they'll only mention Wurtez and Maroni/his driver (maybe). They'll say Harvey died in the hospital explosion. The other number will just have to be a mystery.

[Ziggyman]

Then people will be asking...Why the hell was Harv in the hospital...I think they should just say that he was killed by The Joker...No explanation needed...

[Jokers_Wild]

Do we know Two Face's total body count in the movie, yet? Who were the "two of them cops"?

-Wuertz
-Maroni
-Maroni's driver
-Maroni's bodyguard
-????
-????

-TNC

This will never be cleared up unless the next movie explains it, or Jonah Nolan breaks it down in an interview. We know that *Wuertz (one of the cops), *Maroni, *Maroni's driver, *Maroni's bodyguard (some disagree that Two-Face could've killed him that fast) make four.

But the other cop could be A LOT of people depending on whose interpretation you read. Some say it's the cop(s) at the hospital watching Dent, others say Dent himself (since he worked in IA), and still others say Gordon at the time was assuming it was Ramirez (since may be she was missing, knocked out or tied up by Two-Face)...there might be more too.

[Jokers_Wild]

She'll turn up alive. I bet in BB3 when they talk about the "crimes" Batman committed and eulogize Dent (which I'm sure will happen) they'll only mention Wurtez and Maroni/his driver (maybe). They'll say Harvey died in the hospital explosion. The other number will just have to be a mystery.

After watching TDK again last night, I noticed the news banner on the TV after the hosptial explosion, stated that Harvey Dent was evacuated safely. So even at the point, the police were already lying and spreading disinformation to the public.

[johnlennon696]

How did Harvey escape from the hospital? When he flipped the coin and 'let' The Joker live, The Joker leaves the room, washes his hands and then blows it up. Did they come to an agreemant or did he jump out the window? :huh:

[jorek]

Here It Is Guys, Exclusive News Of Who Is Going To Be Next Joker In The Batman Saga?
It Is No Other Than:
Joseph Gordon Livett?
Go See For Yourselves, Ive Gr8 Informer And Friend Of Nolan Who Tells Me He Is Being Lined Up To Play Him In Future Joker Roles After Being A Bit Beefed Up?
Its Quite Un-canny As Youd Think It Was Actually Heath Himself R.i.p.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzX9jHB3LfA

More Spoilers For Yer Lol, Paul Giamatti Pengy, Jolie Cat, Two Face Not Dead But Left In Assylum Derranged, Depp Riddler, And Future Characters I Shall Reveal Soon?

[Gallagher]

Those last little tidbits of 'inside information' are from speculation over at IGN and various other sites.

Please, stop pretending to be important because, and listen carefully because this is vital to your survival, you are not.

[I Am The Knight]

I'm gonna' guess they might think Ramirez is dead as she is not responding to calls and messages

Yeah, I tried to text her...Nothing.

[da3dl3us]

I'm sure this has been discussed, so I'll apologize if this is redundant.

I've watched the movie 4 times now, and love it more every time. But the one thing that stuck out the fourth time is Dent becoming the Two Face psyche.

Now, with Harvey losing his fiance and half his face blown to hell, I completely understand his need for revenge.

But other than the fact he flips a two sided coin for fun, why did he post scar feel compelled to abide by the fate of the coin flip in the context of this movie?

In the comics and TAS, it's clearly shown Harvey has a sad, abusive past (the fixed coin flipping game his father played on him as a means to beat him), and has dissociative identity disorder or possible schizophrenia. In the movie, there wasn't much of hint of that. Thus the scar traumatized him and unleashed his repressed psychological pathologies, creating the coin flip as his compulsion to make evil/good decisions.

I only wished in the movie, they showed Harvey maybe taking some unknown prescription pills, or talking about his father being abusive and the coin the only thing his father left him (a la Batman Annual #14)

[scatterax]

I'm sure this has been discussed, so I'll apologize if this is redundant.

I've watched the movie 4 times now, and love it more every time. But the one thing that stuck out the fourth time is Dent becoming the Two Face psyche.

Now, with Harvey losing his fiance and half his face blown to hell, I completely understand his need for revenge.

But other than the fact he flips a two sided coin for fun, why did he post scar feel compelled to abide by the fate of the coin flip in the context of this movie?

In the comics and TAS, it's clearly shown Harvey has a sad, abusive past (the fixed coin flipping game his father played on him as a means to beat him), and has dissociative identity disorder or possible schizophrenia. In the movie, there wasn't much of hint of that. Thus the scar traumatized him and unleashed his repressed psychological pathologies, creating the coin flip as his compulsion to make evil/good decisions.

I only wished in the movie, they showed Harvey maybe taking some unknown prescription pills, or talking about his father being abusive and the coin the only thing his father left him (a la Batman Annual #14)

in the movie the coin dosn't have anything to do a split personality. the coin flipping is mostly explained when he gives a speach on how chance is the only thing thats fair is the world. its his version of justice, or atleast that was my take.

[nolan's roll'n]

Yeah, I tried to text her...Nothing.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scatterax]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ya, i had a similar reaction. but it was only an lol. oh well. atleast i got my pic taken w/ one of the batmobiles they used in the movie!!!!!

(it was on display @ a local children's museum)

[nolan's roll'n]

ya, i had a similar reaction. but it was only an lol. oh well. atleast i got my pic taken w/ one of the batmobiles they used in the movie!!!!!

(it was on display @ a local children's museum)

Wow, you are lucky man. :yay:

[scatterax]

Wow, you are lucky man. :yay:

thanx. n ur post juz reminded me i was wearin a smiley-face T in the pic:grin:

[thejon93]

Yeah, I tried to text her...Nothing.
That's why you call, duh:whatever:

[nolan's roll'n]

thanx. n ur post juz reminded me i was wearin a smiley-face T in the pic:grin:

you lucky bastard, you are just having too much fun.

[scatterax]

you lucky bastard, you are just having too much fun.

why so serious?
:hoboj:

its not like fun is bad

[nolan's roll'n]

why so serious?
:hoboj:

its not like fun is bad

I know man, I'm just jealous. Can you pm me the pic?

[obiwan]

i felt bad for harvey at the end, when hes says "you think i can escape this? you CANT escape this" or something like that. and its like, damn i feel bad for that guy, hes got half a face and has to live like that the rest of his life.

[scatterax]

I know man, I'm just jealous. Can you pm me the pic?

i havn;t even figured out how to make an avatar yet

[nolan's roll'n]

i havn;t even figured out how to make an avatar yet

Oh ok, i'm sorry.

[scatterax]

Oh ok, i'm sorry.

ur good.:word:

[I Am The Knight]

That's why you call, duh:whatever:

I did! But she wasn't answering. That's when I txt hr but no answr lolz111

[Two_Face]

So, if Two-Face returns, what do you guys want him to do as far as his actions go?

[johnlennon696]

How did Harvey escape from the hospital? When he flipped the coin and 'let' The Joker live, The Joker leaves the room, washes his hands and then blows it up. Did they come to an agreemant or did he jump out the window? :huh:

Anyone?:huh:

[Two_Face]

I'm pretty sure he allowed him the time to get out of the hospital. That anyone didn't require an explanation, just common sense.

[Eggyman]

They must've come to an agreement of some kind because when Joker admits to his 'ace in the hole' to Bats at the end, it shows that he never intended to kill Dent by blowing up the hospital.

The details you can use your own imagination about. :)

[Two_Face]

It also means he never meant to kill him at the party. He probably had planned to turn him much earlier, but things went in a different way. Either way, since he agreed to let the Joker live, I'm sure the Joker allowed him the time needed for him to escape.

[Two-Face]

Also how did Two-Face got out of crashing car?

[TNC9852002]

i felt bad for harvey at the end, when hes says "you think i can escape this? you CANT escape this" or something like that. and its like, damn i feel bad for that guy, hes got half a face and has to live like that the rest of his life.
No, he's saying "You think I want to escape from this?".

I don't think he's ever had the intention on living for very long.

-TNC

[ronny]

Also how did Two-Face got out of crashing car?

I don't think he got out injury free. By that point he was a walking infection. Probably held up by sheer force of will.

[Greg]

Also how did Two-Face got out of crashing car?

A seat belt does wonders. Next time you watch that scene, notice that before he shoots the driver, he slides his seat belt on.

[Two-Face]

Guys if you want a Two-Face smiley

Click on my sig.

[The Caped Knight]

Guys if you want a Two-Face smiley

Click on my sig.

Harvey deserve his only Smiley on here . After Aaron Eckhart Magnificent portrayal as Two-Face in TDK .

You've got my support .

[Two_Face]

And mine as well.

A Two-Face smiley is more than welcome by me.

[tarekk]

TWO FACE

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ai0e8i.jpg

[RoboAmish]

Also how did Two-Face got out of crashing car?


thank goodness he was wearing his seatbelt

[Two-Face]

TWO FACE

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ai0e8i.jpg



Can I have that as avatar?

[Two_Face]

Not if I have it first! :hoboj:

[Two-Face]

You got to post more than 219.

Good luck.

[Two_Face]

I know, 300 posts. I could probably get there or to 400 before the end of today.

[Two-Face]

I'm real Two-Face anyway.

[Two_Face]

Neither is the real Two-Face, it's a net handle. :hoboj:

But I wouldn't want to be Two-Face, too ugly. However, in real life I do flip a coin to decide some things.

[Two-Face]

Freak :woot:


Sometimes I do that too.

[Two_Face]

:D

I do it for small stuff though. But I just hope I don't end up horribly scarred someday...because that would drive me insane as well.

[Two-Face]

I done it but it's small one. :woot:

[CaptainClown]

I want to have sit next to Tommy Lee Jones as he watched Eckhart revive two-face from the grave.



funny enough though 2nd time I've seen 2-face die in a movie...

[Two-Face]

Blame the writers & director for BF Two-Face, TLJ is an great actor.

[CaptainClown]

TLJ was doing a good job in his first speech then after that ya it just goes down hill.. He definitly was good in DOUBLE jeopardy..

[The Chris]

He could have played two-face very well, but we all know what happened. Eckhart is the king of Two-Face.

[Two-Face]

Vote for Two-Face Smiley!

[Ace of Knaves]

TLJ was doing a good job in his first speech then after that ya it just goes down hill.. He definitly was good in DOUBLE jeopardy..


yea i loved the first speech he done " wait oh wait oh wait oh wait.......it's like the touch of god! "

[I Am The Knight]

That other Two-Face was banned. Well, considering some of his comments on another thread, he really only had a 50/50 chance of staying/getting banned :up: :hehe:

[Ace of Knaves]

That other Two-Face was banned. Well, considering some of his comments on another thread, he really only had a 50/50 chance of staying/getting banned :up: :hehe:

why what did he get banned for?

[Lots o lafs]

If tim burton had done batman 3 and still had Tommy lee Jones it would have worked. He probably could have even done robin well in the burton verse.

[I Am The Knight]

why what did he get banned for?

He was insulting another poster for no reason whatsoever. The usual stuff :grin:

If tim burton had done batman 3 and still had Tommy lee Jones it would have worked. He probably could have even done robin well in the burton verse.

If you like your Robin black, and a Wayans, then yeah.

[Ace of Knaves]

haha yea i heard that, dick grayson was gonna be a black mechanic or summing wernt he?

[Lots o lafs]

really haha didn't know. haha.