The McCain Thread

[jaguarr]

something struck me last night......I was very impressed with Cindy McCain's bio video....and I was really struck by how much humanitarian work she has done.

Just wondering.....have the Obama's done any humanitarian work on the same scale ( or even a fraction ) as Mrs. McCain has?

Ummm....all that community organizer work that Obama did right out of college that Palin was ridiculing him for the other night? That was helping people who were down and out and really needed help. He was doing it on behalf of several churches in poor parts of Chicago that were hit very hard by steel mill closures.

At any rate, I am not being asked to vote for Cindy McCain. I'm being asked to vote for John McCain. Two different people. I don't have a sense of Cindy's political platform but I have to think it's pretty simliar to John's, and I understand his plenty.

jag

[danoyse]

That's exactly what I'm saying. They are blood, and for no other reason than it makes Obama look cold-hearted and uncaring, he should at least step forward and make the gesture.

You could argue the same thing when Cheney didn't publicly stand up to Bush when he announced he would try to constitutionally ban gay marriage. It's only his daughter that would be affecting.

[kainedamo]

I've read the story, but it doesn't change that Obama should say *something* about it to quell those who believe he could be doing more for his own brother.

Perhaps George is doing okay, and perhaps he's happy where he is (though one of his neighbors seems to disagree), or perhaps he's too proud to ask for help. Whatever the case, Obama should let his detractors know that he made the offer, but the offer was rejected.

Perception IS reality and the less he does to address the negative perception, the more power it will gain and the more it will heighten people's concerns about his 'character.'

:facepalm:

Okay, so, even though the accusations about Obama's brother from the GOP are false, Obama should defend against those accusations...

But the media better damn well leave Sarah Palin's family the hell alone...

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[ManofmyWord]

Cindy looks like the creepy 50+ Mom down the street that has had way too much plastic surgery.

[danoyse]

Edit: Image removed because of Danoyse's totalitarian censorship.

Image removed because it was inappropriate and irrelevant to this discussion.

Be careful, Tron.

[jaguarr]

You could argue the same thing when Cheney didn't publicly stand up to Bush when he announced he would try to constitutionally ban gay marriage. It's only his daughter that would be affecting.

Ouch.

jag

[Tron5000]

Image removed because it was inappropriate and irrelevant to this discussion.

Be careful, Tron.

Is that a warning? I'm going to walk on egg shells now because of you? Not bloody likely.

[ManofmyWord]

Oh Lord. Palin's attacking the Community Organizer thing again on MSNBC.

[danoyse]

Is that a warning? I'm going to walk on egg shells now because of you? Not bloody likely.

Do you really want to go there Tron? You're running out of warnings.

[Tron5000]

Do you really want to go there Tron? You're running out of warnings.

And patience.

[Captain Planet!]

I am frightened that there are so many people willing to vote for the downfall of our country.

[Gilpesh]

I am frightened that there are so many people willing to vote for the downfall of our country.

Now Lucas is looking like a prophet with Revenge of the Sith's senate scene. :hehe:

[Mr Sparkle]

I've read the story, but it doesn't change that Obama should say *something* about it to quell those who believe he could be doing more for his own brother.

Perhaps George is doing okay, and perhaps he's happy where he is (though one of his neighbors seems to disagree), or perhaps he's too proud to ask for help. Whatever the case, Obama should let his detractors know that he made the offer, but the offer was rejected.

Perception IS reality and the less he does to address the negative perception, the more power it will gain and the more it will heighten people's concerns about his 'character.'

his half brother, who he hasn't kept in contact with.
:huh: anyone with half a brain should kind of know that's how it goes with families like that.
I had half brothers and didn't even meet them till I was 18, and even then was only friendly with one of 4.
after he died, to this day I have not seen nor heard nor sought them.

It's weird how,and this is not you case lazur but tron's, people will argue about how the poor and how they shouldn't get handouts and then get outraged when the poor don;t get handouts.
and c'mon, we all know, if he had helped his half brother, a distant cousin or two would've popped up.

c'mon guys, it's not like Obama dropped his crippled wife for a hotter/richer model looking MILF is it?

[jaguarr]

c'mon guys, it's not like Obama dropped his crippled wife for a hotter/richer model looking MILF is it?

And it's not like Obama called that new, rich, hotter model looking MILF wife a "c**t" and a trollop and tried to enter her in a Ms. Buffalo Chip contest or anything. :hehe:

jag

[Captain Planet!]

Now Lucas is looking like a prophet with Revenge of the Sith's senate scene. :hehe:
Sadly, yes.

[Matt]

And it's not like Obama called that new, rich, hotter model looking MILF wife a "c**t" and a trollop and tried to enter her in a Ms. Buffalo Chip contest or anything. :hehe:

jag

Again, I must ask Jag, wasn't the "c**t" comment debunked?

[jaguarr]

Again, I must ask Jag, wasn't the "c**t" comment debunked?

I've never heard it debunked.

jag

[Tron5000]

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_tv_ratings_beat_obama_i.php


McCain TV Ratings Beat Obama in Preliminary Numbers

By Andrew Krukowski

Presidential candidate John McCain's acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention drew more television viewers than his rival Barack Obama attracted at the Democratic party's event last week, according to preliminary ratings from Nielsen Media Research.

Across all broadcast networks Thursday, Sen. McCain’s speech ended the night with a 4.8 rating/7 share, compared to Sen. Obama’s 4.3/7 average, according to overnight numbers from metered households in 55 U.S. markets measured by Nielsen. These ratings are preliminary, however, and are subject to change.

NBC’s coverage of Sen. McCain’s speech started directly at the tail end of the opening game of NFL season, with the speech pulling in a 6.3 rating/10 share, topping Sen. Obama’s speech last week by 26%. That lead-in may have boosted audiences who last night turned out in droves to watch Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin introduce herself to the country.

ABC’s showing of the McCain speech averaged a 4.5/7, down 2% from the same night of the Democratic convention last week, while CBS’ coverage took in a 3.4/5, an increase of 3%.

[Hobgoblin]

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_tv_ratings_beat_obama_i.php

Interesting. I'm sure that the McCain camp is happy to hear that. Still, they cant be too thrilled, after Obama got so many donations after Gov Palin's speech.

I'd like to see how the debates do in terms of TV ratings.

[danoyse]

I've read Obama's total viewers may actually be higher because the speech was also aired on BET and Univision, and those numbers weren't counted with the network ratings.

[ManofmyWord]

I've read Obama's total viewers may actually be higher because the speech was also aired on BET and Univision, and those numbers weren't counted with the network ratings.

Oh Gosh...Here comes something Racist in 3...2....1......

[Gilpesh]

Oh Gosh...Here comes something Racist in 3...2....1......

Those don't count as real stations. [/racist]



But is that really true, danoyse?

[danoyse]

But is that really true, danoyse?

I read that last week when Obama's numbers were reported. Although you can argue that it shouldn't count against McCain if his speech didn't air on those stations too.

They didn't show Palin's speech on WE or Lifetime. Sexists. :oldrazz:

[Gilpesh]

I read that last week when Obama's numbers were reported. Although you can argue that it shouldn't count against McCain if his speech didn't air on those stations too.

They should still count... cause technically it was a matter of ratings showing/not showing speeches on those networks. But I'm not in the television business...

They didn't show Palin's speech on WE or Lifetime. Sexists. :oldrazz:

Women can't be sexist and black people can't be racist. :hehe:

[SuBe]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_palin
McCain, Palin present themselves as reformers

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent 9 minutes ago


CEDARBURG, Wis. - John McCain said Friday the sagging economy has brought "tough times all over America" as he made a splashy debut with Sarah Palin in critical Midwestern states as the newly crowned Republican presidential ticket.
http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=XAgKekwNc1gpn3UcSJjG5Qn2S5Oc8UjBnOMAADp.&T=1e8qi4sb6%2fX%3d1220648163%2fE%3d8903521%2fR%3dn ews%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d2.1%2fW%3dH%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d10 55718486%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJuZXdzIiBjb250ZW50PSJ BbWVyaWNhO1JlcHVibGljYW47V2FzaGluZ3RvbjtJdDtEZW1vY 3JhdGljO21hbjtlbGVjdGlvbjt2aWRlbztpdDtEZW1vY3JhdDt XaGl0ZTtIb3VzZTtJcmFxO3RheDtnb3Zlcm5tZW50O1BvbGljZ TtyZWZ1cmxfdXNfbWc0X21haWxfeWFob29fY29tIiByZWZ1cmw 9InJlZnVybF91c19tZzRfbWFpbF95YWhvb19jb20iIHRvcGljc z0icmVmdXJsX3VzX21nNF9tYWlsX3lhaG9vX2NvbSI-%2fQ%3d-1%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d05730D4C&U=13fd4mir0%2fN%3d0ej.HEwNBkY-%2fC%3d678465.12833644.13170779.1414694%2fD%3dLREC %2fB%3d5466436%2fV%3d1
A crowd of thousands cheered the Arizona senator and Alaska governor as they presented themselves as a team of reformers eager to challenge Washington's political establishment.
"John McCain doesn't run with the Washington herd," said Palin, the 44-year-old Alaska governor and surprise pick as McCain's running mate.
"It's over. It's over. It's over for the special interests," McCain promised. "We're going to start working for the people of this country."
Twelve hours after leaving the Republican convention in Minnesota, McCain and Palin were cheered and applauded by a throng of thousands that wound down several streets of Cedarburg, a traditional Republican enclave within Democratic-leaning Wisconsin.
McCain's campaign put out an ambitious estimate of 12,400 people at the rally. Cedarburg's population is about 11,000.
"Isn't this the most marvelous running mate in the history of this nation?" McCain said of Palin, who introduced him as "the only great man in this race, the only man in this election ready to serve as our 44th president."
Two months before the election, small towns are a key target for McCain as he tries to lure independent and blue-collar voters essential for him to win.
Many people in the audience held digital cameras and video cameras above their heads to get a shot as McCain's "Straight Talk Express" bus rolled into town. Palin said it was their intention to bring their campaign directly from the convention to "small-town America" like the small town in Alaska where she once was mayor.
The Republican team plans to campaign together in hotly contested states — Wisconsin and Michigan on Friday, Colorado and New Mexico on Saturday — and then go their separate ways. Palin is expected to return to Alaska just briefly and then go back to the campaign trail, perhaps on Monday.
"Change is coming, change is coming," McCain promised the audience, borrowing the same theme that Democrat Barack Obama has made the centerpiece of his run for the White House.
McCain's campaign as a political outsider and rebel is complicated by the fact that he has served in the Senate for 22 years and solidly endorsed key elements of President Bush's record, most notably the war in Iraq and hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts. McCain originally opposed the tax cuts but changed his mind as he sought the GOP presidential nomination.
McCain took note of gloomy economic news from Washington: The government reported that the nation's unemployment rate soared to a five-year high of 6.1 percent in August as employers slashed 84,000 jobs.
"My friends, a little straight talk, a little straight talk," McCain said. "These are tough times. Today the jobs report is another reminder these are tough times. They're tough times in Wisconsin, they're tough times in Ohio, tough times all over America." He did not say how he would fix the economy.
After their speeches, Palin and McCain ducked into The Chocolate Factory to greet customers and sign autographs. After Palin met a few people, she turned to the ice cream counter and said: "I've got to get the moose tracks, please. Moose tracks, you know, near and dear to my heart. I can't go wrong with it." She was handed a waffle cone with a giant scoop.
Then McCain and his wife came up to order. The senator asked for a recommendation and then decided on watermelon sorbet. Cindy McCain ordered a brownie.
The woman behind the cash register, Becky Luft, 20, was flush with excitement and her friend described her as McCain's No. 1 fan. McCain came around the counter to pose for a picture with her.

People in the restaurant congratulated Palin on her nomination, many saying they liked her speech.
"I am very impressed with you," said Doreen Wirth, a Republican and artist from Cedarburg.
McCain and Palin headed to Michigan for an evening rally. After touching down, they stopped in Detroit to collect the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police, which has 328,000 members nationwide.
Chuck Canterbury, the union's national president, said McCain is a leader "who understands the words 'in the line of duty' and who knows all too well what it means to put your life on the line."
In brief remarks, McCain noted that Palin's husband is a member of the United Steel Workers union, and told the officers that they "are at the front lines of our cites and towns — you know the challenges we face."
___ Associated Press writer Sara Kugler contributed to this report.

[Excel]

I've read Obama's total viewers may actually be higher because the speech was also aired on BET and Univision, and those numbers weren't counted with the network ratings.

:hehe:

I am black, so I can talk, but Im driving today with the radio on a rap station, and the host comes on saying how she watched his speech and "Ya know sumthin gurl I liked but don change fact I voteh Obama I mean for realll I went to germany and he stole me heart he is FOIIINNNEEEEEE"

:hehe:

[comicgirl]

:hehe:

I am black, so I can talk, but Im driving today with the radio on a rap station, and the host comes on saying how she watched his speech and "Ya know sumthin gurl I liked but don change fact I voteh Obama I mean for realll I went to germany and he stole me heart he is FOIIINNNEEEEEE"

:hehe::hehe:I would talk, even if I wasn't blessed with colors (yup, with colors.......as we all are when you break it down)









Please someone tell me that the horrible dress Cindy McCain wore did NOT cost more than my and two other folks mortagages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jaguarr]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/9/5/mccains-economic-plan-wheres-the-rest-of-it.html

McCain's Economic Plan: Where's the Rest of It?
September 05, 2008 04:01 PM ET | Rick Newman | Permanent Link

You know those times when the printer runs out of paper midway through a job, but you don't realize it? You pick up the document and start reading, then wonder where the rest of it went.

That's what John McCain's economic plan feels like. The Republican presidential nominee has outlined plenty of principles and a few specific ideas, like cutting the corporate tax rate, reducing energy costs, and balancing the federal budget. But in his acceptance speech, McCain also pledged to help Americans who "struggle to buy groceries, fill your gas tank, and make your mortgage payment." How? Your guess is as good as mine. Some of the biggest gaps in McCain's plan:

Cheaper energy. McCain's biggest energy proposals are building more nuclear power plants and opening more offshore fields to oil and natural-gas drilling. But it's well known that it could take a decade for such efforts to alter the balance of energy we use and cut back on oil we import from "countries that don't like us very much," as McCain said in Minneapolis. More nuclear plants and offshore drilling won't do anything for the strapped consumers and small-business owners McCain wants to help immediately. Earlier this year, McCain pleaded for relief over the summer months by suspending the 18.4-cent federal gas tax—but he hasn't said if he'll pursue that in 2009, or if it's just for election-year summers. If there ever were a gas-tax holiday, it would leave a vast hole in the Highway Trust Fund and other programs and bleed more, not less, red ink in Washington.

Straight talk: Transforming our energy infrastructure is a huge challenge that could end up costing more than the Iraq war. And take longer. More drilling and nuclear plants could be part of a long-term solution, but until then, the best way for Americans to spend less on energy is to consume less energy.

Cheaper food. McCain's only specific proposals on this are strengthening the dollar, to give Americans more purchasing power, and cutting back on ethanol mandates, which tend to raise prices for corn that might otherwise go toward food. Uh, OK. But a stronger dollar will make only imported food cheaper. Lower corn prices would help a lot in developing countries but would be a marginal improvement in a country like the United States, where corn is already abundant.

Straight talk: American food prices are likely to fall on their own, as the cost of oil (used for manufacturing and transportation) comes down and agribusiness cranks out new products to meet demand. But a smart politician would take credit for it anyway.

More affordable homes. McCain has a plan to rescue at least 200,000 families at risk of losing their homes to foreclosure. But it's similar to a bailout plan already passed by Congress over the summer, so there may not be much more for him to do if he arrives in Washington in January. Whoever is president, however, will inherit a collapsing housing market that's the single biggest problem in the economy. And the only real fix is a painful one: Prices have to fall until the bubble of the last five years is thoroughly deflated.

Straight talk: On the margins, the government can help some homeowners. But most of us have little choice except to ride out the market turmoil.

Falling income. McCain has barely addressed one of the biggest strains on workers: Stagnant real income. (Barack Obama hasn't really, either.) Since 2000, incomes have barely risen after inflation. That's a very thorny problem that can only be fixed by making sure American workers are the most competitive in the world. McCain favors that, needless to say, but making it happen is a huge task, and he hasn't explained how he'd tackle it.

Straight talk: The rich are getting richer. The rest of us aren't.

Worker retraining. In his acceptance speech, McCain acknowledged a troubling subplot of globalization: "Some of you have been left behind in the changing economy." Those feeling the crunch worst are workers whose jobs can be outsourced to India, China, or other low-cost countries. McCain has mentioned a vague plan to make unemployment insurance more practical, and in his speech he pitched a convoluted-sounding idea to pay displaced workers a stipend equal to the difference between what they earned in their last job, and a "potential" new job. Huh? Boy, I'd hate to be the federal official who had to administer that program.

What McCain hasn't addressed is relocation: Workers in manufacturing or textiles or other dying industries often can't get to better jobs, because they can't afford to move. In parts of Michigan, for instance, the economy is so depressed that even upstanding homeowners owe more on their mortgages than their house is worth. To move somewhere else, where the economy is better, they'd have to come up with a big check just to sell their house. Federal and state governments already run lots of retraining programs, most marginally effective.

Straight talk: A competitive economy produces winners and losers, and taking care of the losers is a tough problem that's getting worse because comparable jobs are often far away. Finding a widespread fix is expensive, and there are probably more efficient ways to spend the money.

Balanced budget. McCain is a bona fide fiscal hawk. When it comes to outing pork-barrel practitioners in Congress, McCain has more credibility than anybody else in government. Still, while he promised that "you will know their names," that doesn't mean the pork will stop flowing, because the president still doesn't have line-item veto power to excise the fat from bills, while keeping the meat. If McCain's bully pulpit sends the pork-rats scurrying beyond the Beltway, it will be a novel development.

McCain's plan, meanwhile, calls for lots of additional spending, on things like a $5,000 health-insurance credit for every family, housing subsidies, and tax cuts. To help pay for that, he wants a one-year spending freeze while he scours the federal budget for the legendary—and ever-elusive—waste, fraud, and abuse. Let's hope he finds it.

Straight talk: Everybody wants government to spend less and work better. And maybe McCain will finally be the Hercules who cleans out Washington. But it's been promised many times before.


Ouch.

jag

[Superman]

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_tv_ratings_beat_obama_i.php

McCain TV Ratings Beat Obama in Preliminary Numbers

By Andrew Krukowski

Presidential candidate John McCain's acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention drew more television viewers than his rival Barack Obama attracted at the Democratic party's event last week, according to preliminary ratings from Nielsen Media Research.

Across all broadcast networks Thursday, Sen. McCain’s speech ended the night with a 4.8 rating/7 share, compared to Sen. Obama’s 4.3/7 average, according to overnight numbers from metered households in 55 U.S. markets measured by Nielsen. These ratings are preliminary, however, and are subject to change.

NBC’s coverage of Sen. McCain’s speech started directly at the tail end of the opening game of NFL season, with the speech pulling in a 6.3 rating/10 share, topping Sen. Obama’s speech last week by 26%. That lead-in may have boosted audiences who last night turned out in droves to watch Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin introduce herself to the country.

ABC’s showing of the McCain speech averaged a 4.5/7, down 2% from the same night of the Democratic convention last week, while CBS’ coverage took in a 3.4/5, an increase of 3%. I'll just post what I said to SB when he posted this story over in the RNC thread...



That's not such a good thing if almost everybody thought the speeches sucked.:hehe:

I mean really, What's the big deal?

So more people saw McCain NOT talk about the issues. So people saw the RNC try to use 9/11 to scare up votes. So they saw a speech by McCain and Palin that was full of proven lies and halftruths. (http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php) So they saw the RNC be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites with the "It's OK if WE attack Obama but it's sexist if you attack Palin" stuff they tried to pull this week.

So what?

If you ask me It hasn't been that great of a week for McCain and the RNC and the fact that more people saw all of that isn't something to crow about IMO.:yay:



And lets not forget that the Obama campaign took in a record 10 million dollars in campaign cash AFTER Palin's speech.

I'm sorry but the fact that more people saw the RNC this week isn't that big a deal IMO. In fact you could say that Obama got more out of the RNC than McCain did.

[The Senator]

I watched both McCain and Palin's convention speeches with a few of my friends.

Just because we watched, doesn't mean we're voting for them.

Ratings =/= votes.

[The Senator]

Again, I must ask Jag, wasn't the "c**t" comment debunked?

It was debunked by those close to McCain, and someone who I believe wasn't even there.

But a few journalists who were covering the event he was at have said that it did indeed happen.

So who knows. I would like to believe he didn't say it, but since he called an entire race of people "gooks," and has had a few vulgar outbursts in the Senate, I'm not sure I know what to believe.

[souvlaki]

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_tv_ratings_beat_obama_i.php

That's actually pretty disingenuous. It doesn't include PBS. When PBS is included Obama actually had more viewers.

[souvlaki]

And incase you think I'm just making this up:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/mccain_speech_m.html

PBS, which compiles its figures separately, said that about 2.7 million tuned in for its coverage Thursday night -- down from 3.2 million for Palin and 3.5 million for Obama's acceptance speech.

That makes McCain's total audience nearly 41 million, compared to nearly 42 million for Obama and about 40 million for Palin.

Nice try though, Tron.

[Excel]

Dude, dont say that stuff! McCain had by far the weakest speech of the 3, his being the widest viewed is a GOOD thing for us.

[souvlaki]

Dude, dont say that stuff! McCain had by far the weakest speech of the 3, his being the widest viewed is a GOOD thing for us.

Well, 40 million isn't exactly a bad number. I'm just getting sick of people claiming McCain had more viewers based off a technicality. I've been hearing about it all over the news today, and it just strikes me as dishonest. "Well, if you ignore the 3.5 million viewers that watched Obama's speech on PBS then McCain had more viewers". I love it so much when people just ignore facts because it's more convenient for their candidate.

[danoyse]

It was debunked by those close to McCain, and someone who I believe wasn't even there.

But a few journalists who were covering the event he was at have said that it did indeed happen.

So who knows. I would like to believe he didn't say it, but since he called an entire race of people "gooks," and has had a few vulgar outbursts in the Senate, I'm not sure I know what to believe.

Do you know anything about McCain making a really ugly joke about Chelsea Clinton at a GOP fundraiser in 1998? I saw it referenced on a few blogs...I was curious if there was any truth to it.

Supposedly the joke went: "Know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." :whatever:

[souvlaki]

Do you know anything about McCain making a really ugly joke about Chelsea Clinton at a GOP fundraiser in 1998? I saw it referenced on a few blogs...I was curious if there was any truth to it.

Supposedly the joke went: "Know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." :whatever:

Almost 100% positive that was true.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11823_Page2.html

Outside the contested rape joke, the most notorious of McCain's gags about women's looks came in 1998, when Chelsea Clinton was 18.

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?" he asked guests at a Senate Republican fundraiser. "Because her father is Janet Reno."

[souvlaki]

From that same article:

"Did you hear the one about the woman who is attacked on the street by a gorilla, beaten senseless, raped repeatedly and left to die? When she finally regains consciousness and tries to speak, her doctor leans over to hear her sigh contently and to feebly ask, 'Where is that marvelous ape?'"

Classy...

[danoyse]

Why I love Stephen Colbert--he showed video of the "USA!" chants drowning out the protesters:

"How wise of our founding fathers to name our country something an angry mob can use to drown out dissenters!"

[ShadowBoxing]

Interesting blow to McCain's speech by Jon Stewart tonight.

[SuperT]

This was written by one of McCain's fellow POW's. I think it's a very good and interesting read:

*I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain, and His Finger Should Not Be
Near the Red Button

*By Phillip Butler, Military.com.

John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to
our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in
Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a
number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the
United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in
1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In
those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus
about 150 midshipmen to a company.

As fortune would have it, John, a
First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall
from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I
would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy
across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was
intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our
4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as
close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy.

John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And
on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the
dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar
some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink
(watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes.

I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably
managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year
on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely
managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man
graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason
he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his
grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer
is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was
there for 8 years and John got there 2 1/2 years later, so he was a POW
for 5 1/2 years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as
a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and
maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to
September of 1969.

After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the
torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several
hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so
my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died
on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his
policies was more pragmatic.

They realized we were worth a lot as
bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because
eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's
for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion!

But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he
knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken
and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often
the case -- new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat
injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to
rudimentary.

Relief from pain was almost never given and often the
wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's
father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited
with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely
seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just
John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given
this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about
your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was
criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like
numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of
us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations,
Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the
POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and
wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in
his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were
approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us,
decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals
of Honor -- 8, Service Crosses -- 42, Silver Stars -- 590, Bronze Stars
-- 958 and Purple Hearts -- 1,249.

John certainly performed courageously
and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many --
not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and
tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a
census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once.

The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in
North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each
other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in
ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one.
We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John
knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who
surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification
for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same,
and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in
a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and
70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our
non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that
are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival
expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for
4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head.
He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first
hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that
red button.

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in
Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John
represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual.
The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I
believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment,
health care, education, national infrastructure and other important
areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that
are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is
a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his
nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of
individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues.

John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to
ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist
ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush
because I know he hates that man.

He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that
John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call
a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since
many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out.

In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

~ ~ ~

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval
Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot
down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war.

He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver
Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart
medals. After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology
from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy
Organizational Effectiveness consultant.

He completed his Navy career in
1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in
Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with
Veterans for Peace.

Very interesting read.

[SuBe]

I'll just post what I said to SB when he posted this story over in the RNC thread...



And lets not forget that the Obama campaign took in a record 10 million dollars in campaign cash AFTER Palin's speech.

I'm sorry but the fact that more people saw the RNC this week isn't that big a deal IMO. In fact you could say that Obama got more out of the RNC than McCain did.
And I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread, they garnered this money because they realized they have something real they have to handle. They are SCARED.

[SuperT]

Or just absolutely disgusted at what they saw at the RNC, which motivated them to donate.

That's the reason me and most of my family, and co-workers I spoke with Thursday morning, did.

[Gilpesh]

This was written by one of McCain's fellow POW's. I think it's a very good and interesting read:



Very interesting read.

I can't wait for the spin on that.

[danoyse]

And I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread, they garnered this money because they realized they have something real they have to handle. They are SCARED.

And I'll repeat the same thing I said in that thread. I donated to Obama's campaign after her speech on Wednesday night because I found her repulsive.

[Matt]

Why I love Stephen Colbert--he showed video of the "USA!" chants drowning out the protesters:

"How wise of our founding fathers to name our country something an angry mob can use to drown out dissenters!"

I call shenanigans on that. Anything can be broken down into a three syllable chant. If our founders had named our country genital land, it would just be "Gen-I-Taaaaal!" instead of "U-S-A!"

[Marx]

I call shenanigans on that. Anything can be broken down into a three syllable chant. If our founders had named our country genital land, it would just be "Gen-I-Taaaaal!" instead of "U-S-A!"

Wow...thank god they didn't! :hehe:

[Matt]

And I'll repeat the same thing I said in that thread. I donated to Obama's campaign after her speech on Wednesday night because I found her repulsive.

I usually try to donate what I can to candidates I support. Only one I've felt inspired to give to in this whole cycle is Mark Warner's senate campaign.

[Marx]

I usually try to donate what I can to candidates I support. Only one I've felt inspired to give to in this whole cycle is Mark Warner's senate campaign.

Jman thanks you! :cwink:

[Superman]

And I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread, they garnered this money because they realized they have something real they have to handle. They are SCARED.And again I say.... Whatever get's you through the night.:woot:

Scared, That's a good one. :lmao:

[The Senator]

Jman thanks you! :cwink:

Seriously, we could have donations totaling $4 and we'd win this thing.

Now that the Republicans have stopped financing Gilmore's campaign, it's just a stroll into the Senate for us.

But yes, Matt, thank you for your money. It'll probably help buy a celebration cake!

[danoyse]

I usually try to donate what I can to candidates I support. Only one I've felt inspired to give to in this whole cycle is Mark Warner's senate campaign.

I'm going to London for a week next month, and since the last time I checked $1 in the UK was worth about $.55, I'm basically saving everything I have for this trip...but after that speech the other night I had to break my rule. That's how much I can't stand her.

[hippie_hunter]

I usually try to donate what I can to candidates I support. Only one I've felt inspired to give to in this whole cycle is Mark Warner's senate campaign.
Poor Mark Warner. Absolutely disgusts me how they treated him :csad:

[Hobgoblin]

I'm going to London for a week next month, and since the last time I checked $1 in the UK was worth about $.55, I'm basically saving everything I have for this trip...but after that speech the other night I had to break my rule. That's how much I can't stand her.

Just out of curiosity, do you feel that her selection is pandering to angry female Hillary supporters? As a woman?

[danoyse]

Just out of curiosity, do you feel that her selection is pandering to angry female Hillary supporters? As a woman?

Yes. As soon as Obama picked Biden as his running mate, McCain launched ads asking why Hillary wasn't picked instead, to appeal to the angry Hillary voters. A week later, he introduces a woman running mate who almost immedately mentions Hillary in her speech.

However, she's completely the ideological opposite of everything Hillary represents, so I don't think she appeals to the undecided Hillary voters. There are still plenty of angry ones who will vote for McCain no matter what--but they're kidding themselves if they think Palin is the answer for that.

[imdaly]

I've read Obama's total viewers may actually be higher because the speech was also aired on BET and Univision, and those numbers weren't counted with the network ratings.

According to their follow-up article, those stations were counted.

(Emphasis mine)

McCain Speech Breaks Obama's Week-Old Viewership Record

Nearly 39 million people watched Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s acceptance speech on the closing night of the GOP convention Thursday in St. Paul, Minn. That broke the week-old convention record of upwards of 38 million viewers set by Sen. Barack Obama only the week before.

Sen. McCain amassed an audience of 38.9 million viewers for his speech on two fewer channels than were carrying Sen. Obama’s speech Aug. 28 to 38.38 million viewers, according to data from Nielsen Media Research.

In addition to the three broadcast networks and three cable news networks carrying both closing speeches, Sen. Obama’s speech was carried live by BET and TV One, which target African American audiences, as well as Spanish-language Telemundo and Univision. Sen. McCain’s speech was carried by Telemundo and Univision.

Sen. McCain’s audience dwarfed the 25.57 million who tuned in for President Bush’s acceptance speech on closing night, Sept. 4, in 2004.Source (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/09/mccain_speech_breaks_obamas_we.php)

[Gilpesh]

ZxGcn7lmTWY

[Superman]

ZxGcn7lmTWYHmmmm I wonder why the word "McBush" comes to mind?:whatever:
















I say that only because the video made me think that McCain and Bush are alot alike.

Is that enough explanation forya Matt?:oldrazz::cwink:

[SuperT]

ZxGcn7lmTWY

That is great!!!! lol

Obama should use that as one of his campaign ads.

[Shifty]

That is great!!!! lol

Obama should use that as one of his campaign ads.

Or parts from this:

John McCain: Reformed Maverick (http://http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184113)

narrated by Ian McShane

[Excel]

I have heard 2 reporters on Fox say "George-I mean, John" twice in the past 2 days :lmao:

[Superman4ever]

ZxGcn7lmTWY

Thank G-d for the Daily Show! :applaud

[Gilpesh]

Or parts from this:

John McCain: Reformed Maverick (http://http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184113)

narrated by Ian McShane

vZvehP7vV9s

[jaguarr]

vZvehP7vV9s

LMAO! Where's that from?

jag

[Gilpesh]

LMAO! Where's that from?

jag

The Daily Show... I noticed his link wasn't working so I provided the youtube one.

[Superman]

vZvehP7vV9sI saw that lastnight and loved it. :applaud

John and the show have gave the Republicans HELL this week. They just never let up on them for three nights. Best shows John's had all year. :applaud:woot:

[Superman]

Wait, I thought YouTube wasn't allowed to have Daily Show clips anymore.:huh:

[SuperT]

Oh, and it looks like McCain really doesn't care about his fellow Vet's or senior citizens of America;

McCain to seniors, vets: tough luck
>Archive - PWW Print Edition Archive - 2008 Editions - Feb. 16, 2008

Author: John Wojcik
People's Weekly World Newspaper, 02/14/08 15:45




One more unemployment check to a worker without a job might keep him or her in an apartment or a house. A $400 rebate check to a senior citizen or a disabled veteran might mean a meal tonight instead of nothing to eat.

But to Sen. John McCain, Republican candidate for president, they are “legislative pork barrels” that he cannot be bothered with.

McCain’s fellow Republicans in the Senate have blocked a bill that would have added these measures to the president’s widely criticized economic stimulus package. Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama left their campaign trails Feb. 7 and went to the Senate to try to end the Republican filibuster. But McCain stayed put, choosing not to back eight other Republican senators who joined Democrats in voting against the Republican stonewall.

The Senate’s 59-40 vote fell one short of the 60 needed to end the Republican filibuster. If McCain had joined his eight Republican colleagues, millions of unemployed and low-income workers, seniors and veterans would be better off.

The bill would have extended unemployment benefits and provided tax rebates for 20 million poor people including seniors and disabled veterans.

McCain aides said the Arizona senator opposed these measures, and also objected to several other provisions in the bill including increased home heating assistance for low-income families.

Labor unions considered the Senate package that McCain opposed an improvement over the original House bill. The AFL-CIO had also urged lawmakers to include a temporary increase in food stamp benefits, saying this would be an efficient way to pump money quickly into the economy.

The AFL-CIO has also criticized McCain for his opposition to fiscal relief to hard-pressed states. The federation has called for acceleration of job-creating infrastructure projects that could boost local economies.

Reacting to the Republican stonewall on the stimulus additions, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said: “They said no to helping 20 million seniors and no to 250,000 disabled vets. They said no to those who have lost their jobs and no to small businesses that are suffering in the Bush economy. They said no to helping American families pay their heating bills and to millions trying to avoid foreclosure.”

McCain appeared to be more worried about currying favor with the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington than he was about what he could do to help grassroots Americans suffering from the economic crisis. At the time of the Senate vote, McCain was just a few blocks away meeting with the right-wing CPAC and could have easily walked over to break the filibuster.

The “stimulus package” that eventually passed the Senate Feb. 7 includes no extension of unemployment benefits and no aid for those who can’t pay to heat their homes.

AFL-CIO President John Sweeney, in a statement, condemned the omissions and said these items were “cruelly” and “ironically” left out of a package to stimulate the economy.

“Providing unemployment benefits is one of the most efficient ways to stimulate the economy, since jobless workers are likely to spend immediately. A Labor Department study estimates that every dollar of unemployment compensation boosts Gross Domestic Product by $2.15.”

McCain has an overall AFL-CIO rating of 17 percent. In 2006, the most recent year for which the labor federation has tracked congressional voting records, McCain voted against nearly every labor-backed bill that came up for a vote. He has earned 0 percent ratings from many AFL-CIO member unions. This makes his labor record little better than that of the notorious Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, who has an 11 percent rating. Clinton and Obama have ratings of 93 and 97 percent, respectively.

Last year McCain voted against the Employee Free Choice Act, which labor considers a top priority for a new administration. That bill would allow workers to form a union as soon as a majority indicate their desire for union representation by signing a pledge card. Both Clinton and Obama support the EFCA.

This man truly has nothing great in store for the American people except if you're a big money corporation or make more than $250,000 a year!

[Gilpesh]

It's official... McCain is going to be such a bad president that he will be elected into office in a landslide.

[Excel]

This man truly has nothing great in store of the American people except if you're a big money corporation or make for then $250,000 a year!

Which is why I do not think he will win. At the end of the day, it is just too obvious Obamas argument (McCain is 4 more years of Bush while Obama is real change) is a lot stronger than McCains (despite 95% voting with Bush, I am a change agent) to the people who will decide this election. I do think for undecideds, personality will have an aweful lot to do with it, but in general you'll see the tide, polls, ect. break for Obama as election day comes closer just because McCains argument that he can bring real change simply is not strong enough to last.

Palins gotten him some recent excitement, but even that will ware thin.

[SuperT]

And the fact of the matter is, most of the Independents/Undecideds are people that are smart enough to dig deep and do their research and they will see that McCain along with Palin, have nothing but the same failed policies in store for the next four years.

There's a reason Obama keeps hammering the fact that McCain has voted with Bush on 95% of the issues/policies - because it's 100% true.

[Excel]

Exactly...Palin's buzz and media attention will help them now but if they really do keep her behind closed doors, it will probably eventually neutrilize any real positive effect. That combo'd with Clinton back in the press and the shift of Palin & Biden and back onto Obama vs. McCain as debates roll in, ect. will shift it back in Obama's favor. I think Obama will win the debates simpley because McCain only seems to do well when he is saying bad things about Obama. The problem is, they are not true for the most part. In a debate, he wont be able to tout his POW expirience or say Obama will raise everybodys taxes. The media will probably spin them as Obama win's as undecided voters make up their minds about who will bring change.

At least That is how I see it playing out.

[SuperT]

Keeping her away from the media makes absolutely no sense, and McCain snubbing the media (canceling his appearance on Larry King) will bite them in the arse as well, it makes him look like a big, cry-baby.

At some point if they keep it up the media will just ignore them and focus on Obama/Biden, two people that have no problem answering to the media.

[SuperT]

whoops, double post

[Marx]

MCCAIN CAMP USES 'DISCARDED' OBAMA FLAGS
(UPDATED WITH DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/06/mccain-camp-uses-discarded-obama-flags/





(You know...this whole 'Democrats aren't patriotic' thing that the McCain campaign is trying to pull is really ticking me off! :cmad:)

[Franklin Richards]

Oh, and it looks like McCain really doesn't care about his fellow Vet's or senior citizens of America;



This man truly has nothing great in store for the American people except if you're a big money corporation or make more than $250,000 a year!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/votesagainstvets.jpg


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Excel]

Keeping her away from the media makes absolutely no sense, and McCain snubbing the media (canceling his appearance on Larry King) will bite them in the arse as well, it makes him look like a big, cry-baby.

At some point if they keep it up the media will just ignore them and focus on Obama/Biden, two people that have no problem answering to the media.

I do not think it really matters if it makes him look like a baby. What will eventually hurt is thart Obama is the one getting the more press & exposure to the undecideds.

[Franklin Richards]

MCCAIN CAMP USES 'DISCARDED' OBAMA FLAGS
(UPDATED WITH DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/06/mccain-camp-uses-discarded-obama-flags/





(You know...this whole 'Democrats aren't patriotic' thing that the McCain campaign is trying to pull is really ticking me off! :cmad:)


It's all they got, Marx.


It's all they got.



:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Marx]

It's all they got, Marx.


It's all they got.



:doom: :doom: :doom:

They seem to avoid talking about the issues at all costs. They're too busy saying that anyone who's not a Republican hates their country and keeping their 'pitbull' VP on a choker chain away from the media. It's insulting. The scary thing - they have been able to keep the polls close because of crap like this. They are managing to hang in without actually voicing any of their specifics for this country.

[Franklin Richards]

The good news is that they seem to be losing their stranglehold on religion. I'm an atheist and all but when did the Republican Party become synonymous with Christianity?

It's a joke.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Excel]

I have noticed long ago issues are not the #1 reason many people will vote for somebody. The good thing is, though, that they more than likely ARE the #1 issue amongst the people who are still undecided, which is why i see an Obama win.

[jaguarr]

MCCAIN CAMP USES 'DISCARDED' OBAMA FLAGS
(UPDATED WITH DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/06/mccain-camp-uses-discarded-obama-flags/





(You know...this whole 'Democrats aren't patriotic' thing that the McCain campaign is trying to pull is really ticking me off! :cmad:)

So, technically, the McCain Camp is distributing stolen merchandise. Classy. Aren't there laws against such things?

jag

[Marx]

So, technically, the McCain Camp is distributing stolen merchandise. Classy. Aren't there laws against such things?

jag

Apparently, they don't care.

[jaguarr]

Apparently, they don't care.

Going by how they keep using music without the artist's permission, serially, at their events I would say that's pretty accurate.

jag

[danoyse]

They seem to avoid talking about the issues at all costs. They're too busy saying that anyone who's not a Republican hates their country and keeping their 'pitbull' VP on a choker chain away from the media. It's insulting. The scary thing - they have been able to keep the polls close because of crap like this. They are managing to hang in without actually voicing any of their specifics for this country.

It's starting to remind me of around 2003 when no one could say anything negative about Bush without getting publicly fried by it--the Dixie Chicks, for instance.

Unbelievable. :whatever:

[Marx]

It's starting to remind me of around 2003 when no one could say anything negative about Bush without getting publicly fried by it--the Dixie Chicks, for instance.

Unbelievable. :whatever:

It's eerily reminiscent.

[Gilpesh]

It's eerily reminiscent.

That's just cause you're a business as usual Washington insider who is also sexist... and you beat up little children. :hehe:

[Franklin Richards]

God, I love the Dixie Chicks!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Timedixie.jpg


:up:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Marx]

MCCAIN PLEDGES TO APPOINT DEMOCRATS TO CABINET
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/06/mccain-pledges-to-appoint-democrats-to-cabinet/





(If his choice for VP is any indication of who is pulling the strings...I somehow doubt this.)

[jaguarr]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printer2/index.asp?ploc=t&refer=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/378035_robert06x.html

To the wanting, McCain's words are empty

Last updated September 5, 2008 10:12 p.m. PT

By ROBERT L. JAMIESON JR.
P-I COLUMNIST

WHEN SEN. JOHN McCain accepted the GOP nomination for president this week, I clung to his words, hoping he would speak to skeptical ears here at home.

Ears like those of Reginald and Rosa Beck of Federal Way. Like hundreds of thousands of Americans, the Becks fell behind on house payments after losing their jobs. They eventually lost their home to a foreclosure rescue scam and wound up sleeping on others' floors.

McCain, in his speech, could have copped to America about how lax regulation in the mortgage industry during the reign of President Bush helped fuel a foreclosure crisis. Better, he could have offered a road map out of the crisis, which has ensnared hardworking people.

Instead, he offered a hollow sis boom bah: "I fight for you!"

Durrell Bennett of Spanaway, or Jaime Lynn Campbell, with roots in Ephrata, may not ring a bell.

They're heroes among heroes.

Bennett, a 22-year-old Army specialist, was killed in March after a bomb went off in Iraq. First Lt. Campbell, 25, a former Washington rodeo queen, died two years ago when the Black Hawk helicopter she was co-piloting went down in Iraq. They were among more than 200 members of the military from Washington's hometowns and military bases killed in that country since the U.S.-led invasion five years ago.

Their sacrifices deserve explanation for what went wrong -- if not flat-out apologies. We owe it to them -- and the troops still fighting -- to come up with resolute plans, schedules for withdrawal and diplomacy, to patch together a nation we broke chasing the wrong guy -- Saddam.

Instead, McCain spoke vaguely: "I intend to honor their sacrifice," he said of the fallen, adding: "I fought for the right strategy and more troops."

Driving down Rainier Avenue this week, I saw them -- dozens of people lined up to get bread at a food bank. The sea of faces looked forlorn, defeated. They could well have been the faces of rising joblessness. Unemployment in the United States reached a five-year high in August -- the kind of job loss, experts say, indicative of recession.

McCain's response this week to the sagging economy?

"All you've ever asked of government is to stand on your side," he told the Republican National Convention, "and not in your way."

Hmmm -- what he means, folks, is government ought to stand on the sidelines and let the misplays of the past eight years go on, no referee in sight. That way, the fat cats can keep on getting fat while the poor just suck air.

I'll grant McCain this -- he did drum the mantra of "change" to great effect in his Thursday night speech, so much so I wondered whether Barack Obama sneaked in and signed on as ghostwriter.

Bizarrely enough, the change McCain calls for -- he did mention the C-word more than a half-dozen times -- would mean biting the political teat he has suckled blissfully for his long, dusty congressional career. As the veteran television critic Tom Shales put it, that's "like staging a revolution against yourself -- saying that the Republicans have got to go so the Republicans can move in and clean up the mess."

After the Bush presidency, the American people want a gravy of details with their political steak.

McCain, smart and likable, with a golden chance to reach 40 million people watching at home -- far beyond the already converted in the St. Paul convention hall -- forgot even the steak.

His pitch was self-absorbed izzle -- that's sizzle without the "s" for substance.

There was no newfound sincerity but plenty of huffy sloganeering and lots of verbal contortion.

There was no checklist for change. At least Obama, who has said the election is "not about me, it's about you," called on dismantling "the ownership society" with tax cuts for 95 percent of working families.

McCain, though, did offer velvet potshots in his show of ineloquent glibness.

As for the Becks? Those military families grieving over their war dead? The poor standing in Seattle bread lines?

They remain hungry to hear something deeper from McCain, not just hollow-sounding promises to "fix problems that need to be fixed" or patriotic puffery to "fight, fight, fight!"

Let's call McCain's big coming-out party what it truly was -- a missed opportunity.

jag

[souvlaki]

MCCAIN PLEDGES TO APPOINT DEMOCRATS TO CABINET
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/06/mccain-pledges-to-appoint-democrats-to-cabinet/





(If his choice for VP is any indication of who is pulling the strings...I somehow doubt this.)

By "Democrats" I'm sure he means "Democrat" and by "Democrat" I'm sure he means Lieberman.

[Marx]

By "Democrats" I'm sure he means "Democrat" and by "Democrat" I'm sure he means Lieberman.

Oh I have no doubt about that Souv.

[Gilpesh]

Funny... aren't they kicking him out?

[Marx]

Funny... aren't they kicking him out?

Once the November elections are over...I would say yes.

[Gilpesh]

Seriously... he should be the head of PUMA.

[Knives]

MCCAIN CAMP USES 'DISCARDED' OBAMA FLAGS
(UPDATED WITH DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/06/mccain-camp-uses-discarded-obama-flags/





(You know...this whole 'Democrats aren't patriotic' thing that the McCain campaign is trying to pull is really ticking me off! :cmad:)

So they are lying about FLAGS NOW?????

The McCain campaign is beyond pathetic at this point. Beyond. They aren't even ATTEMPTING to discuss ANY issues. All they want to do is go OBAMA BAD! WE GOOD! VOTE US NOW! And they aren't even TRYING to dispute thier own lies. They'll say something, it gets proven to be a LIE, and they repeat the same lie over and over and over and over again anyway! They truly think if they say it enough, it will magically BECOME true! What the hell is this? It's like a MOCKERY of a campaign instead of a real one. Man, if they win....then it will prove the American people are far dumber then ANYBODY could have imagined, and it wont ever get better.

[Arc-Light]

It's starting to remind me of around 2003 when no one could say anything negative about Bush without getting publicly fried by it--the Dixie Chicks, for instance.

Unbelievable. :whatever:

Why do you hate America................

[Superman]

Can someone tell me why none of the news networks have brought up that disgusting 9-11 "Tribute" video since the night it aired?:cmad:

[jaguarr]

Palin & McCain's Shotgun Marriage (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/opinion/07rich.html?ref=opinion). Excellent article. :up:

jag

[kainedamo]

Can someone tell me why none of the news networks have brought up that disgusting 9-11 "Tribute" video since the night it aired?:cmad:

I was so disgusted I made my own vid about it.

ugYbgrE9LsY

[kainedamo]

McCain flat out lies about Palin's supposed 'national security' experience.

This is an Obama interview, and they show the clip of McCain lying through his teeth about halfway through, unable to find the clip by itself.

eT2OlYTPzy4

Obama also responds to the community organizer taunts by explaining what he did when he was a community organizer.

[ManofmyWord]

Ouch. Actually hearing McCain say the "Next to Russia" thing is totally cringeworthy....

[Superman]

Ouch. Actually hearing McCain say the "Next to Russia" thing is totally cringeworthy....:huh: When did this happen? I know Cindy McCain said it but not John.

Got a link?:huh:

[kainedamo]

:huh: When did this happen? I know Cindy McCain said it but not John.

Got a link?:huh:

eT2OlYTPzy4

It's about halfway through that clip. Just keep forwarding on until you see McCain's face.

[Superman]

eT2OlYTPzy4

It's about halfway through that clip. Just keep forwarding on until you see McCain's face.Wow, I can't believe he said that.

What's really sad is that McCain and the Right actually think that's a qualification to be VP.:whatever:

[gap5ewl]

eT2OlYTPzy4

It's about halfway through that clip. Just keep forwarding on until you see McCain's face.

My god..How stupid do they think we are. :dry:. It's like a complete joke now...

[hippie_hunter]

MCCAIN PLEDGES TO APPOINT DEMOCRATS TO CABINET
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/06/mccain-pledges-to-appoint-democrats-to-cabinet/





(If his choice for VP is any indication of who is pulling the strings...I somehow doubt this.)

I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one Democrat in McCain's administration. Hell, Bush had Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.

[Gilpesh]

0iqktCdX0hs

Looks bad for McCain... :hehe:

[Knives]

My god..How stupid do they think we are. :dry:. It's like a complete joke now...


Its now how stupid they think we are, its how stupid they KNOW we are. McCain currenctly winning in the polls, and he will likely win this election by saying nothing, and doing nothing. They may as well keep saying what thier saying becuase nobody wants to hear facts. They are happy listening to the lies, even when you wave the truth right in front o fthem.

[jaguarr]

I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one Democrat in McCain's administration. Hell, Bush had Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.

Lieberman hardly counts as a Democrat these days. He's a DINO....Democrat In Name Only. :hehe:

jag

[jaguarr]

0iqktCdX0hs

Looks bad for McCain... :hehe:

LMAO! "Ya kent put no bucket over a pig's head, it just makes 'im skittish!" :funny:

jag

[Marx]

I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one Democrat in McCain's administration. Hell, Bush had Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.

And as has been mentioned before, I would be willing to bet that 'Democrat' would be Joe Lieberman.

[The Senator]

I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one Democrat in McCain's administration. Hell, Bush had Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.

I expect both McCain and Obama to pull someone from the other party to serve in their cabinets. Clinton also made William Cohen his Secretary of Defense, for example, so it has been done before and is actually not out of the realm of possibility. I expect Chuck Hagel to play a role in an Obama administration, and Joe Lieberman to play a role in McCain's administration. Both men are outcasts in their own parties, and it would make the most sense for both of them to be in considering by Obama and McCain.

[jaguarr]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/liberal-rock-st.html

Liberal Rock Stars to McCain-Palin Campaign: Stop Using Our Songs

September 07, 2008 10:52 AM

The McCain-Palin jukebox options are shrinking.

The latest rockers to tell the Republicans to cease spinning their albums are the women from Heart, who were chagrined to hear their song "Barracuda" play at the Republican convention as Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin hit the stage. Palin, a star high school basketball point guard, was nicknamed "Sarah Barracuda." The official Heart website states

that "Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart have informed the McCain/Palin Campaign that Universal Music Publishing and Sony BMG have sent a cease-and-desist notice to not use one of Heart's classic songs 'Barracuda,' as the congratulatory theme for Sarah Palin. The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission. We have asked the Republican campaign not to use our music. We hope our wishes will be honored."

And on Entertainment Weekly's website

the Wilson sisters add that "Sarah Palin's views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song 'Barracuda' no longer be used to promote her image. The song 'Barracuda' was written in the late '70s as a scathing rant against the soulless, corporate nature of the music business, particularly for women. (The 'barracuda' represented the business.) While Heart did not and would not authorize the use of their song at the RNC, there's irony in Republican strategists' choice to make use of it there."

This is not the first time a liberal rock star has asked McCain to stop spinning his or her tunes.

In February, John Mellencamp

had his publicist Bob Merlis write the McCain campaign to suggest it might be better if McCain stopped playing "Our Country" at McCain rallies, given Mellencamp's liberal views and endorsement of former Sen. John Edwards, D-NC.

"Are you sure you want to use his music to promote Senator McCain's efforts?" asked Merlis in his letter. "Logic says that the facts might prove to be an embarrassment, were they to be circulated widely." Merlis told reporters that Mellencamp was uncomfortable with McCain using his music.

In August, Jackson Browne sued McCain and the Ohio GOP sued McCain and the Ohio Republican Party for the Ohio GOP's use of his song "Running on Empty" in an attack ad against Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

Browne's attorney, Lawrence Iser, told the Los Angeles Times that the McCain campaign was also named in the suit because they believe "McCain and his campaign were well aware of the ad."

Van Halen also took issue with the McCain campaign's use of the song "Right Now" during its Dayton, Ohio, rally where Palin was introduced to the American people as McCain's running mate. MTV news reported

that "Van Halen’s members aren’t too happy about it. According to the band’s publicist, the members had no idea McCain was going to use their song as his entrance theme and were never approached by McCain’s camp for permission to use the track. 'Had they asked, permission would not have been granted,'" Van Halen's publicist said. A similar situation played out in 2000, with Mellencamp, Sting and others expressing chagrin that then-Gov. George W. Bush was using their songs to fire up supporters.

jag

[sithgoblin]

If McCain gets the presidency... seriously, it is the beginning of the end of America. :csad:

[Knives]

If McCain gets the presidency... seriously, it is the beginning of the end of America. :csad:


I'll do a Pontius Pilot and wash my hands of the whole thing.

[DACrowe]

It would just be a sign that complacent ignorance and divisive laziness would continue to trump actually looking out for the best interests of the country because they are too busy looking at the shiny light of the RNC.

Albeit this year Palin being their bright object is a surprise.

Oh well.

[Knives]

Exactly. It would prove the country is hopeless and beyond repair. Hence, i'd wash my hands of it.

[MattBearPig]

I think it's ironic that Obama was playing a country song and McCain is playing rock. You'd think it'd be the other way around.

[JackMercy]

Exactly. It would prove the country is hopeless and beyond repair. Hence, i'd wash my hands of it.

George Carlin a few months before he died: "This country is finished."

Now, while Carlin has rarely been wrong about, well...anything, in this case I'm going to attempt to honorably disagree with him...for now.

Polls often have their biggest jumps just after the conventions -- but they will likely settle down a bit...you're going to see jumps and falls for a while yet...

Patience -- there's still time.

Think Lord of the Rings...There's still Hope, Frodo. There's always Hope.

Also, think about alllll those wonderful people who they're not polling -- i.e. everyone without landlines -- and lots who may not even be registered yet, or are registering for the first time... who do you think is getting them registered? And have you seen the registration numbers for the primaries -- as well as the actual voter turnout in the states and precincts? The Blue guys showing up were often out-numbering the Reds 2 or 3-1.

[StorminNorman]

I love the incredibly ignorance of the above comments. Yes, McCain (a moderate Republican) beating Obama (a liberal Democrat) is clearly a sign that America (a country that elected a Democratic congress two years ago) is doomed.

Anyone who really believes the Republican Party is any more self serving, any more evil, than the Democratic Party REALLY needs to get their heads out of the sand and take a real look at the party.

One would think that the Republican Party nominating THIS Presidential Candidate (who has a long history of butting heads with his own party, who IS - no matter what history altering liberal blogger says otherwise - a maverick in his party) and THIS Vice Presidential Candidate (a politician who has a record of taking down corrupt politicians, regardless of political party) would be a sign that either A. the ol' GOP is not as bad as Michael Moore would have you believe or, at least, B. the ol' GOP is reforming itself due to its recent incompetence.

Of course this would take rational thought and reason which isn't nearly as easy as just making some ridiculous, sophomoric remark.

Cheers.

[StorminNorman]

Lieberman hardly counts as a Democrat these days. He's a DINO....Democrat In Name Only. :hehe:

jag

How so? :huh:

Since when is the Democrat Party a one issue party?

[kainedamo]

I love the incredibly ignorance of the above comments.

I love your continued ignorance and hypocrisy.

Anyone who really believes the Republican Party is any more self serving, any more evil, than the Democratic Party REALLY needs to get their heads out of the sand and take a real look at the party.

lol, okay pal. Who's been in charge for the last eight years again? :whatever: The democrats really haven't had much of an opportunity to prove they are as 'evil' as the republicans.

One would think that the Republican Party nominating THIS Presidential Candidate (who has a long history of butting heads with his own party, who IS - no matter what history altering liberal blogger says otherwise - a maverick in his party)

Correction - USED to be a maverick. The man has turned his back on just about every ideal he had before 2006/2007 and has recently pandered to evangelical right as much as he possibly can. He used to be outraged at negative campaign tactics, and now he's all too willing to pump out ridiculous negative attack ads. He flat out lies about Palin's 'national security' experience. If you really believe that at this point in time, that McCain is a maverick, then you are kidding yourself.

and THIS Vice Presidential Candidate (a politician who has a record of taking down corrupt politicians, regardless of political party) would be a sign that either A. the ol' GOP is not as bad as Michael Moore would have you believe or, at least, B. the ol' GOP is reforming itself due to its recent incompetence.

Norman, why are you lying? If not to us then to yourself. You know that Palin has a history of taking pork money.

[kainedamo]

Norman, take a look at this.

vZvehP7vV9s

[Zen]

I love the incredibly ignorance of the above comments. Yes, McCain (a moderate Republican) beating Obama (a liberal Democrat) is clearly a sign that America (a country that elected a Democratic congress two years ago) is doomed.

Anyone who really believes the Republican Party is any more self serving, any more evil, than the Democratic Party REALLY needs to get their heads out of the sand and take a real look at the party.

One would think that the Republican Party nominating THIS Presidential Candidate (who has a long history of butting heads with his own party, who IS - no matter what history altering liberal blogger says otherwise - a maverick in his party) and THIS Vice Presidential Candidate (a politician who has a record of taking down corrupt politicians, regardless of political party) would be a sign that either A. the ol' GOP is not as bad as Michael Moore would have you believe or, at least, B. the ol' GOP is reforming itself due to its recent incompetence.

Of course this would take rational thought and reason which isn't nearly as easy as just making some ridiculous, sophomoric remark.

Cheers.


I'm ready for the delicious economic plan of his.

i might get more comrades on the road biking with me!

Come on comrades, start training now so the change isnt quite so abrupt!

[kainedamo]

Biden on McCain...

lfmMrgMyn1o


He makes an excellent point about McCain.

How can McCain change anything, if McCain doesn't even know what's wrong?

[jaguarr]

How so? :huh:

Since when is the Democrat Party a one issue party?

Lieberman is locked in step with 9/10's of the Republican's platforms and issues and caters more to his buddies in that party than he does his own party. He's a DINO. Working across party lines is admirable; being a lackey to another party is another thing entirely.

jag

[SuBe]

Not only did the RNC have more Viewer than the DNC

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0439266820080905

They also received a Bigger Post Con Bump

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548

[StorminNorman]

I love your continued ignorance and hypocrisy.

Please show me a single example of hypocrisy on my part.

lol, okay pal. Who's been in charge for the last eight years again? :whatever: The democrats really haven't had much of an opportunity to prove they are as 'evil' as the republicans.

LOL, cute. Who's been in charge the last two years? The Democrats. They have done nothing since. Instead of doing actual work, they do little publicity stunts like irrelevant, non binding bills on Iraq. Or going to vacation instead of addressing the oil crisis. For anyone to blame the Republicans for all of governments problems you prove yourself to not be worth discussing the matter with.

You could also look, if you would like, at the Clinton administration - one of the most corrupt and self serving Presidencies in American history. Look at his pardons (the ones he literally sold), look at the fact he SOLD nights in the Lincoln bedroom. Look at Travelgate.

Greed, corruption, incompetence - they know no party lines and they are EQUALLY prevalent in both.
Correction - USED to be a maverick. The man has turned his back on just about every ideal he had before 2006/2007 and has recently pandered to evangelical right as much as he possibly can. He used to be outraged at negative campaign tactics, and now he's all too willing to pump out ridiculous negative attack ads. He flat out lies about Palin's 'national security' experience. If you really believe that at this point in time, that McCain is a maverick, then you are kidding yourself.

When was McCain/Kennedy (yes - Teddy Kennedy) introduced?

Norman, why are you lying? If not to us then to yourself. You know that Palin has a history of taking pork money.

:lmao::lmao::lmao: - Where in my post did I mention Palin taking pork money? How does that have to do with her history of butting heads with the Alaskan GOP?

And Palin's work as Governor has shown that she IS a politician who is willing to cut government waste. She has used her Veto well, and she has gotten rid of a lot of Governor luxuries that most politicians would never do.

[Marx]

CHENEY: MCCAIN/PALIN ADMINISTRATION WILL BE UNLIKE ANY OTHER
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/08/cheney-mccain-palin-administration-will-be-unlike-any-other/






(McCain/Palin - NOW with the Bush/Cheney stamp of approval)

[Marx]

NEW AD DECLARES MCCAIN/PALIN 'ORIGINAL MAVERICKS'
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/08/new-ad-declares-mccain-palin-original-mavericks/





(This ad just starting playing here in Ohio yesterday.)

[Mr Sparkle]

Greed, corruption, incompetence - they know no party lines and they are EQUALLY prevalent in both.


then, why do you completely ignore them when they come from YOUR preferred party?

[Mr Sparkle]

Not only did the RNC have more Viewer than the DNC



guess the Republicans have more free time than the democrats :huh:

[SuBe]

guess the Republicans have more free time than the democrats :huh:
Well, Obama's Speech was on 10 Networks and McCain's was on 6. Maybe more people have intrest in what the Republicans have to say.:cwink:

[ShadowBoxing]

NEW AD DECLARES MCCAIN/PALIN 'ORIGINAL MAVERICKS'
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/08/new-ad-declares-mccain-palin-original-mavericks/





(This ad just starting playing here in Ohio yesterday.)It has been a joy to watch the Democrats come out and fight this "Bridge to Nowhere" business. John Kerry would've let that nonsense float out there until mid October.

[jaguarr]

Well, Obama's Speech was on 10 Networks and McCain's was on 6. Maybe more people have intrest in what the Republicans have to say.:cwink:

I guess people were hoping they'd hear something different out of the Republicans for a change. Those poor, disappointed people. :oldrazz:

jag

[ManofmyWord]

Biden on McCain...

lfmMrgMyn1o




Is that Bush in the Audience at 3:00? :wow::oldrazz:

Excellent points from Biden.

[Mr Sparkle]

Well, Obama's Speech was on 10 Networks and McCain's was on 6. Maybe more people have intrest in what the Republicans have to say.:cwink:

well, you have to admit.
while the DNC had that whole "change" message, plus, the "no one is unpatriotic" thing the RNC had that whole "change" message plus the "community service is laughable"

I can see how that would appeal to more people.
I mean, 8 years of the GOP and they have the balls to say "you need to let us clean up this mess....that....uh...we..made/voted for/perpetuated"

and they need to be brass, maybe that's why people saw it, because they couldn;t believe their ****ing eyes, like seeing David Blaine or something.

[SuBe]

I guess people were hoping they'd hear something different out of the Republicans for a change. Those poor, disappointed people. :oldrazz:

jag
:hehe:

[imdaly]

Lastest polls show McCain with 48.2% average and Obama 45.2% average.

If election held today?...Electoral votes would be tied 250-250. :)

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard)

[kainedamo]

McCain is enjoying a convention bump.

[Mr Sparkle]

and you know what? I think the concerns over him croaking are quite valid, did you see him "waking" on the stage at the RNC, c'mon, I mean he is pretty spry for a 72 year old but still.
plus, it's weird, as a teenager you spend your time thinking "man they should elect younger people president" and then you pick the OLDEST MAN ALIVE ever to walk the surface of the earth.
yeah, I'll bet he'll tackle the tough issues....

[Mr Sparkle]

and you know what? I think the concerns over him croaking are quite valid, did you see him "waking" on the stage at the RNC, c'mon, I mean he is pretty spry for a 72 year old but still.
plus, it's weird, as a teenager you spend your time thinking "man they should elect younger people president" and then you pick the OLDEST MAN ALIVE ever to walk the surface of the earth.
yeah, I'll bet he'll tackle the tough issues....

[The Geek Vault]

and you know what? I think the concerns over him croaking are quite valid, did you see him "waking" on the stage at the RNC, c'mon, I mean he is pretty spry for a 72 year old but still.
plus, it's weird, as a teenager you spend your time thinking "man they should elect younger people president" and then you pick the OLDEST MAN ALIVE ever to walk the surface of the earth.
yeah, I'll bet he'll tackle the tough issues....
honestly this is one of my fears is that he will die in office.

[Raiden]

honestly this is one of my fears is that he will die in office.

Which is why I think it is important for the media and voters to figure out Palin, because of this possibility.

[ShadowBoxing]

Lastest polls show McCain with 48.2% average and Obama 45.2% average.

If election held today?...Electoral votes would be tied 250-250. :)

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard)
Their electoral map is not up to date according to RCP. I also love how FOX News puts out there +7 Ohio poll, while all other polling data suggests a dead heat, or Obama riding one or two points ahead.

[UA-Archangel]

McCain leads most polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

[ShadowBoxing]

McCain leads most polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
Is this any surprise considering a week ago, following the DNC, Obama led in all polls except for one that was tied.

[UA-Archangel]

Is this any surprise considering a week ago, following the DNC, Obama led in all polls except for one that was tied.

And he held that lead for an entire day.:oldrazz:

[ShadowBoxing]

And he held that lead for an entire day.:oldrazz:
Actually he held a clear lead from the seventeenth of August until the thirty-first. Only one poll showed McCain leading by a single point.

[hippie_hunter]

McCain is enjoying a convention bump.
Very well I might add. He not only successfully countered Obama's convention bump (which the Republicans feared would be up to 20 points) but managed to get a rather decent one of his own.

[UA-Archangel]

Actually he held a clear lead from the seventeenth of August until the thirty-first. Only one poll showed McCain leading by a single point.

And from that one seed, comes a tree.

[ShadowBoxing]

And from that one seed, comes a tree.
So, in your mind, McCain's leads are seeds, and Obama's leads are irrelevant. Okay, that's not bullsh** logic or anything.

[UA-Archangel]

So, in your mind, McCain's leads are seeds, and Obama's leads are irrelevant. Okay, that's not bullsh** logic or anything.

I've been studying confuscism.

It's a great philosophy.

[Marx]

Very well I might add. He not only successfully countered Obama's convention bump (which the Republicans feared would be up to 20 points) but managed to get a rather decent one of his own.

He needs to thank his running mate for that.

[UA-Archangel]

He needs to thank his running mate for that.

Perhaps Obama might need to thank Biden for his current standing.

[Marx]

Perhaps Obama might need to thank Biden for his current standing.

The only thing wrong with Biden (in some people's eyes) is the fact that he isn't Hillary Clinton. That said, McCain's bounce is from the convention and his choice of Sarah Palin. At some point, John McCain and Sarah Palin will actually HAVE to answer questions. They cannot avoid the issues, or their records, forever. When that day comes, then we'll see how the wonderful world of polling numbers works out for them.

[UA-Archangel]

The only thing wrong with Biden (in some people's eyes) is the fact that he isn't Hillary Clinton. That said, McCain's bounce is from the convention and his choice of Sarah Palin. At some point, John McCain and Sarah Palin will actually HAVE to answer questions. They cannot avoid the issues, or their records, forever. When that day comes, then we'll see how the wonderful world of polling numbers works out for them.

And if McCain is still ahead?

[Marx]

And if McCain is still ahead?

Then this country is far worse off than I thought...

[DorkyFresh]

aw c'mon! it's entirely possible that McCain and Palin can out-debate Obama and Biden...











:oldrazz:

[rdh007]

Perhaps Obama might need to thank Biden for his current standing.

McCain's pick of Palin has nothing to do with governing the United States and everything to do with winning the Presidency. My fear is that this guy has had such a hardon for the presidency for so long now that he'll die from shock after the oath and we'll have the mayor of Wasilla Alaska for our President. :(

[UA-Archangel]

McCain's pick of Palin has nothing to do with governing the United States and everything to do with winning the Presidency. My fear is that this guy has had such a hardon for the presidency for so long now that he'll die from shock after the oath and we'll have the mayor of Wasilla Alaska for our President. :(

She might help clear out Washington by shooting a few long-time senators.

That's a good thing, right?

[rdh007]

She might help clear out Washington by shooting a few long-time senators.

That's a good thing, right?
Then Vice-President Biden can make sure he urges President Obama to pardon her in 2016. ;)

[Knives]

McCain is enjoying a convention bump.

And America celebrates its ignorance.

[Knives]

Then this country is far worse off than I thought...


I already think its far worse off then I originally thought. Lets see if my fear is justified or if its cynicism

[Hobgoblin]

Lastest polls show McCain with 48.2% average and Obama 45.2% average.

If election held today?...Electoral votes would be tied 250-250. :)

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard)

Please please PLEASE never use the words "electoral college" and "votes tied" in the same sentence ever again.

Please.:csad:

[ShadowBoxing]

RCP does not have electoral votes tied, not even close.

[imdaly]

Please please PLEASE never use the words "electoral college" and "votes tied" in the same sentence ever again.

Please.:csad:

Why? What's wrong with my statement?

[jaguarr]

RCP does not have electoral votes tied, not even close.

Yep. From a more reputable source than Yahoo:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Obama/Biden - 217
McCain/Palin - 174
Toss Up - 147


jag

[Hobgoblin]

Why? What's wrong with my statement?

Its a joke. :oldrazz:

It just made me think of Florida in 2000.

[imdaly]

Its a joke. :oldrazz:

It just made me think of Florida in 2000.

Welcome to the way our President has been determined ever since George Washington!

[jaguarr]

Welcome to the way our President has been determined ever since George Washington!

With hanging chads in Florida? :huh:

jag

[imdaly]

Yep. From a more reputable source than Yahoo:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Obama/Biden - 217
McCain/Palin - 174
Toss Up - 147


jag

Dude, Yahoo's map is USING that website as its source.

Those figures are using a "Prediction Market" where "Intrade lets investors 'buy shares' in politcal candidates.

The 250-250 figures are using an average of the polling results from various sources. Click my link. You'll see what I mean.


And according to those same sources, the Polling is showing a recent change of +0.2% for Obama and +0.1% for McCain. And the recent changes for the "Prediction Market" which you are quoting in your post is showing a recent change of -3.5% for Obama and +3.5% for McCain with just a 7.5% lead by Obama left (which of course means that a 3.75% rise for McCain would put them even 50%/50%).

[imdaly]

With hanging chads in Florida? :huh:

jag

Sigh....


Every single recount ever done for that had Bush winning...

When will people finally give this a rest?

[StrainedEyes]

Sigh....


Every single recount ever done for that had Bush winning...

When will people finally give this a rest?

When Florida stops messing things up. :o

[jaguarr]

Dude, Yahoo's map is USING that website as its source.

Those figures are using a "Prediction Market" where "Intrade lets investors 'buy shares' in politcal candidates.

The 250-250 figures are using an average of the polling results from various sources. Click my link. You'll see what I mean.


And according to those same sources, the Polling is showing a recent change of +0.2% for Obama and +0.1% for McCain. And the recent changes for the "Prediction Market" which you are quoting in your post is showing a recent change of -3.5% for Obama and +3.5% for McCain with just a 7.5% lead by Obama left (which of course means that a 3.75% rise for McCain would put them even 50%/50%).

That factor in big bold letters skews the data and makes it inaccurate. This ain't Fantasy Baseball, son.

Another interesting set of numbers from Realclearpolitics is straight electoral votes as the fall today, no toss-up states:

Obama/Biden 273 McCain/Palin 265


jag

[jaguarr]

Sigh....


Every single recount ever done for that had Bush winning...

When will people finally give this a rest?

I feel like you and I are having two different conversations and you aren't in either one of them. :(

jag

[imdaly]

That factor in big bold letters skews the data and makes it inaccurate. This ain't Fantasy Baseball, son.

Another interesting set of numbers from Realclearpolitics is straight electoral votes as the fall today, no toss-up states:

Obama/Biden 273 McCain/Palin 265


jag

EXACTLY!!!

And those figures right there. 273 to 265...the ones that YOU are using...are the ones using those Fantasy Baseball numbers.

It's the 250-250 numbers that are simply using the averages of all those polls that are out there right now.

Click the Yahoo link and see for yourself!

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard

[jaguarr]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/09/08/2008-09-08_it_aint_over_till_the_polls_close_but_ob.html

It ain't over till the polls close, but Obama needs to get his mojo back

BY THOMAS M. DeFRANK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF

Monday, September 8th 2008, 11:19 PM

WASHINGTON - Not that long ago, John McCain was toast. Is he now suddenly unstoppable?

That's what some breathless Republicans - and even a few jittery Democrats - whispered Monday after new polls showed McCain has vaulted past Barack Obama and leads by as much as 10 points among likely voters.

It's time to take a very deep breath. The only thing right about conventional wisdom is that every four years, it's usually wrong. Ask President Henry Clay, President Dewey, President Muskie, President Romney (George, not Mitt) or President Hillary.

For now, the CW has McCain soaring and Obama slumping, just another rookie phenom fading in the stretch.

McCain had a strong convention with three unadulterated days of prime-time Obama bashing. His pick of Sarah Palin has rallied a dispirited base and shored up a couple of red states where Obama might otherwise have been competitive.

Consequently, the crowds, excitement and media intoxication have shifted to McCain, and Obama's fund-raising advantage has shrunk. For a campaign obsessed with winning the PR contest every day, it's been an unusually good week for McCain.

So once the GOP's postconvention bounce and Palinmania subside - and they will - how does Obama get the mojo back?

By sticking to his blueprint, painting McCain as a third Bush term, relentlessly hammering home bread-and-butter economic issues - and a debate performance on Sept. 26 as compelling as his Denver acceptance speech.

For all the Palin hoopla, not much has changed strategically. McCain still slogs under the same heavy baggage as before the St.Paul convention: an unpopular war and even more unpopular President, a sputtering economy and predatory gas prices.

"Our electoral map got better, but it's still a tougher map for us than for him," said one of McCain's clear-eyed top advisers after the convention.

Ever-fluctuating national polls are meaningless, especially eight weeks out. The cult of novelty surrounding Palin will eventually play out. Neither combatant has yet made the sale. This election, like the last two, will be decided in a handful of ferocious contests in Rust Belt and Western states after the debates conclude on Oct. 15.

"We got a bounce; they got a bounce," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor on Monday. "At the end of the day, it's a deeply divided electorate, and it's going to be tight right through to the election."

jag

[jaguarr]

EXACTLY!!!

And those figures right there. 273 to 265...the ones that YOU are using...are the ones using those Fantasy Baseball numbers.

Click the Yahoo link and see for yourself!

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard

Th numbers in your link show an even 250 for each candidate. Fail to see the connection. Sorry.

jag

[imdaly]

Th numbers in your link show an even 250 for each candidate. Fail to see the connection. Sorry.

jag

Click "Markets" instead of "Polls" in the boxes where Obama and McCain's numbers are.

[imdaly]

"We got a bounce; they got a bigger bounce," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor on Monday. "At the end of the day, it's a deeply divided electorate, and it's going to be tight right through to the election."

Fixed.

[jaguarr]

Click "Markets" instead of "Polls" in the boxes where Obama and McCain's numbers are.

I just told you I don't care about Fantasy Baseball stats. The primary electoral college map that I first posted is the best data you're going to get.

jag

[jaguarr]

Fixed.

Very clever, but not wholly accurate since Obama's post-Convention bump had him up by +15 in some polls. :o

jag

[StrainedEyes]

I just told you I don't care about Fantasy Baseball stats. The primary electoral college map that I first posted is the best data you're going to get.

jag

What he's saying is -

The even 250/250 Electoral votes number, comes from the Poll average of the link he sent you.

The "Fantasy Football" or Prediction Markets has the Electoral votes at 273/265, according to the yahoo site.

Based on the Yahoo page, you and realclearpolitics.com are using the Prediction market, and not the Poll Average.

That's what he's trying to say.

[imdaly]

What he's saying is -

The even 250/250 Electoral votes number, comes from the Poll average of the link he sent you.

The "Fantasy Football" or Prediction Markets has the Electoral votes at 273/265, according to the yahoo site.

Based on the Yahoo page, you and realclearpolitics.com are using the Prediction market, and not the Poll Average.

That's what he's trying to say.

Exactly. Thank you! :)

[jaguarr]

What he's saying is -

The even 250/250 Electoral votes number, comes from the Poll average of the link he sent you.

The "Fantasy Football" or Prediction Markets has the Electoral votes at 273/265, according to the yahoo site.

Based on the Yahoo page, you and realclearpolitics.com are using the Prediction market, and not the Poll Average.

That's what he's trying to say.

Well why didn't he just say so? :huh: At any rate, I still prefer these numbers as I originally stated:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

They don't have all the voodoo done to them that the others do.

jag

[Matt]

Lastest polls show McCain with 48.2% average and Obama 45.2% average.

If election held today?...Electoral votes would be tied 250-250. :)

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard)

Of course, many of those states are still gray, with no data. Never-the-less, it would be interesting to see such a scenario. There are real outcomes in which neither gets the necessary electoral college majority of 270, if I'm not mistaken. There are plausible scenarios in which it can come out 269 to 269. If such a case happens, I'd imagine it is Obama's being as the House will break the tie, but then again, since each state gets one vote, and the Democrats hold a majority due to heavier population states, McCain may be able to get the majority of states in his corner and take the election.

Vice-President could also be interesting. Democrats have a Senate majority I wonder if Biden could turn out VP with McCain as President. :wow: I suppose Lieberman would switch sides to vote Palin, but I'm guessing with Biden's pull he could get one Republican Senator to vote for him.

Of course...a tie is unlikely, but after this primary season, who knows?

[Matt]

Well why didn't he just say so? :huh: At any rate, I still prefer these numbers as I originally stated:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

They don't have all the voodoo done to them that the others do.

jag

Its almost impossible to call this election though as so many states are within the margin of error. This election is way too close to call.

[jaguarr]

Its almost impossible to call this election though as so many states are within the margin of error. This election is way too close to call.

I agree. That's why polls are nothing more useful than trivia at this point, especially this early in the game. Another month or so and they'll start to become more useful.

jag

[Matt]

I agree. That's why polls are nothing more useful than trivia at this point, especially this early in the game. Another month or so and they'll start to become more useful.

jag

Even then, if they stay so close within the margin of error...they'll be useless. This election will be a flip of a coin unless the polls start drastically shifting.

[Marx]

I went to the McCain/Palin rally today in SW Ohio. There was about 5500 people there, or so the local media reported. The crowd consisted mainly of older, very well dressed business men and women, and the usual church crowd. There was also a smaller group of protesters (no I was not one of them.) They were all peacfully demonstrating. It continues to amaze me how the Republican ticket can continue to feed the public the lies they do, and get away with it.

:csad:

[Knives]

I went to the McCain/Palin rally today in SW Ohio. There was about 5500 people there, or so the local media reported. The crowd consisted mainly of older, very well dressed business men and women, and the usual church crowd. There was also a smaller group of protesters (no I was not one of them.) They were all peacfully demonstrating. It continues to amaze me how the Republican ticket can continue to feed the public the lies they do, and get away with it.

:csad:

Its becuase people simply don't care. We keep hoping that the ISSUES are the thing that matter, but they just dont. It seems people just enjoy being lied to, even when they are presented with the facts. We live in a country with far too many stupid ignorant people and the media is all too concerned with celebrity and ratings to do proper reportig. We are screwed

[ShadowBoxing]

Even then, if they stay so close within the margin of error...they'll be useless. This election will be a flip of a coin unless the polls start drastically shifting.
Yeah, another poll today has them in a dead heat again, so it's really to early to start making any real predictions.

[Franklin Richards]

Just watched The View interview with John McCain's daughter, Megan McCain. <sp?>

She seemed really cool. Upfront. She's backing her dad in this election but you can tell it's because she knows him to be an honorable man. Even if she seems to be a social liberal.

Nice lady.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Knives]

Just watched The View interview with John McCain's daughter, Megan McCain. <sp?>

She seemed really cool. Upfront. She's backing her dad in this election but you can tell it's because she knows him to be an honorable man. Even if she seems to be a social liberal.

Nice lady.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

She also said THIS on the Today show:

"No one knows what war is like other than my family. Period."
-- Meghan McCain, daughter of Sen. John McCain, on the Today Show.

The apple doesnt fall down far from the tree.

And here's mommy at her finest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zP8uFPWxaA

Yeah.

[Gilpesh]

"No one knows what war is like other than my family. Period."
-- Meghan McCain, daughter of Sen. John McCain, on the Today Show.

A little... too far, I think the term is.

[Superman]

I feel like you and I are having two different conversations and you aren't in either one of them. :(

jag:lmao:

[cryptic name]

If McCain gets the presidency... seriously, it is the beginning of the end of America. :csad:

only mildly ridiculous

[lazur]

I went to the McCain/Palin rally today in SW Ohio. There was about 5500 people there, or so the local media reported. The crowd consisted mainly of older, very well dressed business men and women, and the usual church crowd. There was also a smaller group of protesters (no I was not one of them.) They were all peacfully demonstrating. It continues to amaze me how the Republican ticket can continue to feed the public the lies they do, and get away with it.

:csad:

What lies in particular do you believe McCain has told?

Just curious...

[kainedamo]

What lies in particular do you believe McCain has told?

Just curious...

For one thing, he lied about Sarah Palin's 'national security' experience.

[DorkyFresh]

He's also lied about saying he wasn't an expert on the economy and saying that he was against the war.

[Gilpesh]

He also said that Palin had executive experience in the PTA.

[StrainedEyes]

And that she sold the plane on Ebay for a profit.
And that being geographically close to something makes you an expert. :o

[Kelly]

A little... too far, I think the term is.

I'm thinking she means of those that are running for President.......:huh:

[Kelly]

She might help clear out Washington by shooting a few long-time senators.

That's a good thing, right?



Hell, if the first person in her site is Pelosi, OH HELL YEAH......sign me up for the Palin bandwagon.......and then I'll vote differently in the next election if everything else is a screw up.

[ShadowBoxing]

A little... too far, I think the term is.
Yeah, Chuck Hagel, he has no f***in clue what war is like. Lying son of a b*tch:cmad:

[Kelly]

Very well I might add. He not only successfully countered Obama's convention bump (which the Republicans feared would be up to 20 points) but managed to get a rather decent one of his own.


When you are looking at the convention bumps, you also have to look at from what point did the bump happen. When looking at that, McCain had a larger bump.


But, in the end, it only matters who keeps the lead...............and THEN, who people actually vote for......:cwink:

[ShadowBoxing]

He also said that Palin had executive experience in the PTA.
...and because she was a Coach once.

[Gilpesh]

I'm thinking she means of those that are running for President.......:huh:

Still, doesn't excuse a huge blanket statement made by the daughter of the guy who thought Iraq was behind 9-11 and that was a good reason to invade it.

[Marx]

What lies in particular do you believe McCain has told?

Just curious...

I am referring to the Republican ticket as a whole. John McCain abandoned his 'Maverick' persona a long time ago. He turned to the harder right once he gained the nomination because he realized he couldn't win without them. He says that Sarah Palin has executive experience through her role with the PTA. He blasted Barack Obama on 'lack of experience' and then he chose a mirror of Obama as his running mate. He just put out an ad that suggests Barack Obama supported a bill that would teach sex education to children, which is incredibly misleading. The bill was to protect children from sexual predators. I could really go on and on about him, but right now Palin has me fired up.

Sarah Palin claims that she supports children with disabilities, yet she cut funding for children with disabilities by 60 percent as Governor. She claims that she supports programs for unwed teen mothers, yet she cut funding for those programs as Governor. She claims that she was against the 'Bridge to Nowhere' despite the fact that she was on record as recently as a few weeks ago in support of it. She says that she fought corrupt politicians and ethics problems within the government, yet she is currently under investigation for ethics violations and abuse of power right now. She says that she got rid of the Governor's plane by putting it on ebay, but fails to mention the fact that it never actually sold on ebay.

Want me to continue?

[Kelly]

Still, doesn't excuse a huge blanket statement made by the daughter of the guy who thought Iraq was behind 9-11 and that was a good reason to invade it.

So what?


Its the kid of a candidate, who gives a ****....or who should give a ****?

no one...

[Knives]

Sarah Palin claims that she supports children with disabilities, yet she cut funding for children with disabilities by 60 percent as Governor. She claims that she supports programs for unwed teen mothers, yet she cut funding for those programs as Governor. She claims that she was against the 'Bridge to Nowhere' despite the fact that she was on record as recently as a few weeks ago in support of it. She says that she fought corrupt politicians and ethics problems within the government, yet she is currently under investigation for ethics violations and abuse of power right now. She says that she got rid of the Governor's plane by putting it on ebay, but fails to mention the fact that it never actually sold on ebay.

Want me to continue?


The woman is a complete walking embodiment of a lying, two faced hypocrite. SHe is utterly useless. And yet, her approvals are sky high, people simply dont give a **** about the issues. And the""""""liberal"""""" media is too busy talking about Palin action figures, her stupid glasses, and pigs with lipstick and not focusing on ANY of this womans lies. Only that bridge to nowhere crap got any attention and the woman STILL uses it on the stump. She will give McCain this election on nothing but lies and the media wont care, and americans are too stupid to know the difference.

[SuBe]

60% of Voters Say Supreme Court Should Base Rulings on Constitution

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...e_court_update

[ShadowBoxing]

60% of Voters Say Supreme Court Should Base Rulings on Constitution

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...e_court_update

It's unfortunate 80% of those people think the guys who wrote the Constitution were Evangelical Christians who hated abortion and were really concerned about the sanctity of marriage.

[jaguarr]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/09/AR2008090901029_pf.html

Federal Shortfall To Double This Year
Next President To Inherit Deficit Of $500 Billion

By Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 10, 2008; A01

A weak economy and a sharp increase in government spending will drive the federal budget deficit to a near-record $407 billion when the budget year ends later this month, and the next president is likely to face a shortfall in January of well over $500 billion, congressional budget analysts said yesterday.

A deficit of that magnitude could severely constrain the next administration's agenda, regardless of whether Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), the Republican candidate, or Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.), his Democratic opponent, wins in November. Each has promised billions in new tax cuts or new spending. The expanding deficit also will increase the national debt and could impair future economic growth, particularly if lawmakers are forced to pay down that debt by raising taxes.

This year's deficit will be more than double last year's $161 billion, and it will rise from 1.2 percent of the gross domestic product to nearly 3 percent. If the next president extends some or all of President Bush's signature tax cuts, as both candidates have promised, annual deficits could balloon to as much as 5 percent of the economy, rivaling the dark fiscal days of the early-1990s and those of the Reagan administration, said Peter Orszag, director of the Congressional Budget Office.

The budget picture is likely to grow even bleaker once government analysts factor in the anticipated costs of the Treasury Department's decision last weekend to take over struggling mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Orszag declined yesterday to attach a price tag to the takeover, under which Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. has pledged to invest as much as $200 billion to keep the companies solvent. However, Orszag said Paulson's action has bound the government so tightly to the two companies that he will incorporate them directly into the federal budget when he reexamines the nation's fiscal picture in January.

The massive companies, which together hold or guarantee about half the nation's 12 million residential mortgages, claimed more than $1.5 trillion in debt at the end of the second quarter. Because that debt is backed by a nearly equal amount in assets, Orszag said it will not significantly increase the nation's indebtedness.

Orszag said it was also unclear how the takeover will affect the annual budget deficit. Government accounting methods do not reflect the risk inherent in assuming control of billions of dollars worth of mortgage-backed securities in the middle of the worst housing bust since the Great Depression. As a result, budget analysts said it is possible that the takeover could add tens of billions of dollars to the deficit -- or little to nothing.

"One of the ironies of what we're experiencing is the shortcomings in the way in which the federal government currently accounts for credit transactions. When you engage in actions that do contain risk, it can look like there's a profitable opportunity because the system does not reflect the cost of risk," Orszag said.

The complex question of how to value the companies and their assets on the government's books will be decided in coming weeks. Meanwhile, the White House budget office has yet to decide whether to follow Orszag's lead and fully incorporate the companies into its budget, an act that could increase the perception of complete government control.

Regardless of the White House's decision, the government's underlying financial condition is likely to get worse, an administration budget official said. "Treasury will still have to raise money to keep these guys whole," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in order to speak candidly. "We will be spending money on these companies. It would be hard to say we're going to make money on this."

On Capitol Hill, lawmakers were less focused on the implications of taking over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than on casting blame for the rapidly rising deficit.

"This is a doubling by the Democratic Congress, and Congress controls the purse strings," said Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.).

Democrats called that assertion preposterous, noting that much of the increase was the result of measures that received strong Republican support: one to return billions of dollars to taxpayers as part of the economic stimulus package and another to increase war funding. Bush signed legislation this summer to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through the rest of his presidency, bringing total Iraq spending to more than $650 billion and the total for Afghanistan to nearly $200 billion.

"So they're fully responsible for the increase in the deficit," said Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.). "All of this happened on their watch, under their president."

In January, congressional budget analysts had estimated the deficit would be only $219 billion by year's end. By July, however, the White House was predicting that the number would spike to $389 billion because of new spending. Yesterday, the congressional analysts upped it even further, saying the increase over 2007 had been driven equally by two factors.

The weak economy has clobbered corporate profits, halting the growth of tax collections. And spending has jumped sharply, in part because of tax rebates, as well as a hike in expenditures to cover unemployment insurance and deposits of insolvent financial institutions.

This year's deficit will rival the record of $413 billion set in 2004. With the economy expected to remain sluggish for at least the next several months, the Congressional Budget Office projects that next year's deficit will rise to $438 billion. But Orszag said that number could easily climb to $540 billion if Congress acts in the coming months, as expected, to restrain the growth of the alternative minimum tax and to extend a variety of expiring business tax breaks.

Despite the gloomy budget outlook, Democrats said they would press ahead with plans for a second stimulus package of about $50 billion, a proposal opposed by Republicans but supported by Obama. "We would probably be in a worse situation if we didn't do a second stimulus," said Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), who heads the Joint Economic Committee.

Economic advisers to the presidential campaigns said the big deficits would do little to change their plans for cutting taxes or, in Obama's case, for increasing spending on priorities such as health care and education. "A weak economy is not the time to dramatically reduce your budget deficit," said Jason Furman, an adviser to Obama, who wants to extend some of Bush's tax cuts. "The top priority is creating jobs and getting the economy going again."

Douglas Holtz-Eakin, an economic adviser for McCain, acknowledged that the deeper budget hole will make it much harder for McCain to keep his promise to balance the budget while extending all of Bush's tax cuts. "But that doesn't mean the first and best thing to do is raise taxes," Holtz-Eakin said. "The best thing to do is get the economy going again and create jobs."

jag

[StorminNorman]

then, why do you completely ignore them when they come from YOUR preferred party?

To state that I do displays an ignorance to any political post on the subject I have made since 2006.

Also - I love the fact that Kaine called me a hypocrite, yet failed to display any example. :up:

[StorminNorman]

For one thing, he lied about Sarah Palin's 'national security' experience.

How so? Do you believe that the government of Alaska, a country with a boarder with Canada and right next door to Russia - not to mention being a very energy important state - isn't occasionally forced to interact with other countries?

[StorminNorman]

He's also lied about saying he wasn't an expert on the economy and saying that he was against the war.

When did McCain ever, EVER, say he was against the war?

Against the initial handling of the war? Yes - but that's not a lie. In fact far from it.

[StorminNorman]

And that she sold the plane on Ebay for a profit.
And that being geographically close to something makes you an expert. :o

She said she put the plane on E-Bay, not that she sold it on it.

This is, of course, not a lie.

[StorminNorman]

The woman is a complete walking embodiment of a lying, two faced hypocrite. SHe is utterly useless. And yet, her approvals are sky high, people simply dont give a **** about the issues. And the""""""liberal"""""" media is too busy talking about Palin action figures, her stupid glasses, and pigs with lipstick and not focusing on ANY of this womans lies. Only that bridge to nowhere crap got any attention and the woman STILL uses it on the stump. She will give McCain this election on nothing but lies and the media wont care, and americans are too stupid to know the difference.

:lmao:

[Marx]

Would you like to respond to the comment he was responding to Norm? (Which would be mine. :cwink:)

[ShadowBoxing]

How so? Do you believe that the government of Alaska, a country with a boarder with Canada and right next door to Russia - not to mention being a very energy important state - isn't occasionally forced to interact with other countries?Let's get one thing straight. Alaska is next to Russia, but it's next to Siberia, the most interaction she'll have is with the smoke signals political dissidents are sending her from whatever gulag Putin has built out there. Next, whether Alaska is forced to interact or not is immaterial, she applied for her passport for the first time last year, so she hadn't been out of the country (except to Canada persumeably) until then. That, by definition, is not having to interact with countries.

[sasquatchs]

How so? Do you believe that the government of Alaska, a country with a boarder with Canada and right next door to Russia - not to mention being a very energy important state - isn't occasionally forced to interact with other countries?

Can you give us some examples of her interactions with Russia?

[jaguarr]

How so? Do you believe that the government of Alaska, a country with a boarder with Canada and right next door to Russia - not to mention being a very energy important state - isn't occasionally forced to interact with other countries?

I've never seen it quantified with actual instances of her interacting with Russia on any issues, let alone issues of National Security, Norm. Just the vapid claim that she has national security and foreign policy experience because Alaska is kind of close to Russia.

jag

[kainedamo]

Can you give us some examples of her interactions with Russia?

....

Hmm, the wind is howling outside.

[gap5ewl]

Can you give us some examples of her interactions with Russia?

Seriously how can they keep on using this bs? Does she have a little base she goes to every night on the coast of Alaska and spy on the Russians with some HQ binoculars? Btw, the are closest to Russia isn't exactly full of Russia's secrets.

[AndrewGilkison]

Can't we just admit that McCain picked Palin mostly for political reasons? If Obama had picked Hillary as his V.P, Palin would still be moosehunting while McCain and Joe Leibermen did rallies that would pack 30 people at best. ;)

[DorkyFresh]

When did McCain ever, EVER, say he was against the war?
his speech on the night of Obama's acceptance speech for the Dem. candidate...

"I STRONGLY disagreed with the Bush admininstration's mismanagement with the war in Iraq."

...yeah, that's why he was so adamant about making the war look like it was going well that he lied about Petraeus going around in an unarmed humvee which ended up with him having to put his money where his mouth is by visiting Iraq with a thick bullet proof vest and a whole squad covering him while he acts like everything is fine.

Against the initial handling of the war? Yes - but that's not a lie. In fact far from it.
so he was against HIMSELF trying to get this war started? he had his hand in going to war, it's not as if he wasn't buddy buddy with Bush during that time. he was one of the biggest advocates of the war. so you're telling me that he was against himself?

[jaguarr]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYpS6G-fl1u-yS2zifc0FsveuPGwD93435N00

Analysis: McCain ad twists truth

By The Associated Press – 35 minutes ago

TITLE: "Fact Check."

LENGTH: 30 seconds.

AIRING: The campaign would not disclose where this ad will air other than to say in "key states" where McCain already is running commercials. That lack of information raises questions about how often this ad will be seen by voters or whether it was simply made to generate news stories and publicity.

SCRIPT: Announcer: "The attacks on Governor Palin have been called 'completely false' ... 'misleading.' And, they've just begun. The Journal reports Obama 'air-dropped a mini-army of 30 lawyers, investigators and opposition researchers' into Alaska to dig dirt on Governor Palin. As Obama drops in the polls, he'll try to destroy her. Obama's 'politics of hope?' Empty words." McCain: "I'm John McCain and I approved this message."

KEY IMAGES: Palin and Obama are shown, as well as what appears to be a pack of wolves running through brush. McCain also is shown.

ANALYSIS:

This ad takes the truth and twists it.

The campaign asserts that "attacks on Governor Palin have been called 'completely false' and 'misleading" — and uses pictures of Obama to suggest that the Democrat has been spreading lies about Palin.

To back up its claim, McCain's team points to comments made by prominent Democrats, including some with links to Obama's campaign, incorrectly aligning Palin with Pat Buchanan and a fringe political group in which some members supported Alaska's secession from the United States.

More prominently, McCain's ad quotes a nonpartisan online organization called factcheck.org.

But the group wasn't referring to Obama when it talked of false and misleading attacks. Rather, it referenced Internet rumors, saying: "We've been flooded for the past few days with queries about dubious Internet postings and mass e-mail messages making claims about McCain's running mate, Gov. Palin. We find that many are completely false or misleading."

At the same time, the McCain ad takes Obama's campaign to task over a Wall Street Journal column that said operatives were going to "dig into her record and background." The ad distorts that by saying "dig dirt."

Obama's campaign has called the Journal report "false," and Obama spokesman Josh Earnest said in a conference call that "there are no Obama or DNC staffers or researchers that were air-dropped into Alaska." He declined to answer whether Democratic lawyers in Alaska had been recruited to do research on Palin in the state.

What McCain doesn't say in the ad is that Republicans also have amassed reams of research on Obama and his running mate Joe Biden after going through their records and backgrounds. This "opposition research" is the norm in modern political campaigns, not that a viewer would know that from the commercial.

It's certainly the case that Obama has criticized Palin, saying that she and McCain don't deserve the label of change agents and are spewing "empty words."

But it remains to be seen whether such criticisms have "just begun" as the ad asserts, and whether Obama really will "try to destroy" Palin as he "drops in polls." Neither of those assertions are drawn from facts; McCain's campaign simply is saying what it believes will happen without offering voters any proof.

McCain's ad claims that Obama is spreading misleading information about Palin, yet it was unveiled one day after the GOP ticket itself released its own commercial that stretched the facts.

That ad said that Obama's only education accomplishment was legislation to teach sex education to kindergartners. Obama voted for the sex education bill in committee in 2003 as an Illinois states senator, but he was not the sponsor of that legislation. The bill also would have required age-appropriate information in schools and would have allowed parents to pull their children from sex education classes if they wished. It never became law.

jag

[jaguarr]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iE2JCSH5p9r2GBkQWS9TWAMzmuvQD9342B680

McCain and Palin castigate the earmarks she seeks

By JENNIFER LOVEN – 1 hour ago

FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) — Republican presidential nominee John McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, equated lawmakers' requests for funding for special projects with corruption on Wednesday even though Palin herself has requested nearly $200 million in so-called "earmarks" this year.

Campaigning in Virginia, McCain suggested earmarks are particularly shameful at a time when families are struggling with rising food, gas and home mortgage costs. He vowed again to veto any bill that contains such funding.

"I got an old ink pen, my friends, and the first pork barrel-laden earmark, big-spending bill that comes across my desk, I will veto it. You will know their names. I will make them famous and we'll stop this corruption," McCain said during a rally at a park in suburban Washington, D.C.

Palin has sought $197 million worth of earmarks for 2009, down about 25 percent from the $256 million she sought in the 2008 budget year. As mayor of tiny Wasilla, Alaska, she hired a lobbyist to seek federal money for special projects. Wasilla obtained 14 earmarks, totaling $27 million, between 2000-2003, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama hasn't asked for any earmarks this year. The Illinois senator sought $311 million in such funding last year. McCain, an Arizona senator, doesn't seek earmarks for his state.

Undaunted by his running mate's ties to earmarks, McCain said: "I've fought corruption, and it didn't matter if it was Democrats or Republican, and so has Sarah Palin."

Palin said she has "championed earmark reform" as governor and "reformed the abuses of earmarks in our state." Now, she said, she is ready to join McCain in Washington "so we can end the corrupt practice of abusive earmarks after all."

The practice of earmarking — lawmakers inserting special requests for money for home-state projects in spending bills — is a longtime anti-Washington bugaboo for politicians running for office. Many find that, once in office, requests from constituents for help on a particular project is too tough to resist and support bringing that kind of money home to their states and districts.

"John McCain's idea of changing Washington is a vice-presidential candidate who, as governor, requested more pork per person than any other state in the country," said Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor.

Still, McCain and Palin's attack on earmarks in the face of those she has requested joins other statements by the vice presidential nominee that have been widely debunked:

_Palin routinely claims to have put an end to Alaska's infamous "bridge to nowhere," even though she supported the project during her gubernatorial campaign and turned against it only when it became a national embarrassment and Congress threatened to cut its funding.

_Palin has claimed that she put the governor's jet on the Internet auction site eBay, and McCain has said it was sold at a profit. However, the jet was never sold via eBay.

_Palin says she eliminated the governor's chef from the state budget, yet she gave the person another job in state government.

McCain aides said Thursday's event attracted the biggest non-convention crowd of his campaign, with local officials reporting an estimated 23,000 at the event. People filled the grass and hillsides to make a sea of red, as the state GOP exhorted everyone coming to wear the hue in a sign of support for the party, and they often drowned out the candidates' words with chanting.

Judging by shouts from the crowd, the enthusiasm seemed driven primarily by the presence of Palin. She has electrified both McCain's campaign and the party since he announced her as his running mate almost two weeks ago.

The reaction was significantly different in Philadelphia.

McCain made a solo trip for a roundtable discussion with half a dozen female business leaders at the Down Home Diner. The appearance, inside a bustling indoor downtown marketplace, formed a sharp contrast with the earlier joint show, as the arrival of both McCain's bus outside and him inside was greeted by loud Obama crowds.

The Republican could barely be heard over the Obama cheers by the women he met, or by reporters when McCain made a statement after.

"Pennsylvania is a battleground state, as we can tell," he said with a small smile.

jag

[StorminNorman]

Sarah Palin claims that she supports children with disabilities, yet she cut funding for children with disabilities by 60 percent as Governor. She claims that she supports programs for unwed teen mothers, yet she cut funding for those programs as Governor. She claims that she was against the 'Bridge to Nowhere' despite the fact that she was on record as recently as a few weeks ago in support of it. She says that she fought corrupt politicians and ethics problems within the government, yet she is currently under investigation for ethics violations and abuse of power right now. She says that she got rid of the Governor's plane by putting it on ebay, but fails to mention the fact that it never actually sold on ebay.

Want me to continue?

I am not absolutely sure on Palin's policies concerning children with special needs - but I am also not someone that thinks cutting funding = cutting support.

I believe a lot of programs in this country would be served by cutting back the budget - too many government run programs are bloated with tremendous waste. Since I am not sure what exactly the budget cuts included - I can not comment in defense, or against, Palin.

Can you link me to her recent comments on the Bridge? I think her actions on the Bridge to No Where are the strongest piece of testimony for her - I could care less if she DID support the Bridge years ago, the fact that she decided not to utilize the government funding is what matters to me. Biden and Obama both voted to fund the Bridge to No Where - even when a vote was brought up in the Senate that gave them the ability to vote to allocate that funding to Katrina victims.

Simply the fact she is being investigated for firing an Alaskan Trooper who is on the record for tazering his own child does not mean that she is exactly what she hates. Lets see what the investigation shows - innocent until proven guitly and all that.

She said she put the plane on E-Bay...which she did. The main point was NOT that she sold the plane on E-Bay, but that she attempted to sell a major Government, tax funded perk. Since she DID end up selling the plane, I find this to be a criticism of the most irrelevant kind.

[jaguarr]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iKt4CePAt-tJqdPld1mZxbC4nsXwD934371G0

Gov't officials investigated for sex, gifts

By DINA CAPPIELLO – 42 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Government officials handling billions of dollars in oil royalties improperly engaged in sex with employees of energy companies they were dealing with and received numerous gifts from them, federal investigators said Wednesday.

The alleged transgressions involve 13 former and current Interior Department employees in Denver and Washington. Their alleged improprieties include rigging contracts, working part-time as private oil consultants, and having sexual relationships with — and accepting golf and ski trips and dinners from — oil company employees, according to three reports released Wednesday by the Interior Department's inspector general.

The investigations reveal a "culture of substance abuse and promiscuity" by a small group of individuals "wholly lacking in acceptance of or adherence to government ethical standards," wrote Inspector General Earl E. Devaney. Devaney's office spent more than two years and $5.3 million on the investigations.

The reports describe a fraternity house atmosphere inside the Denver Minerals Management Service office responsible for marketing the oil and gas that energy companies barter to the government instead of making cash royalty payments for drilling on federal lands. The government received $4.3 billion in such royalty-in-kind payments last year. The oil is then resold to energy companies or put in the nation's emergency stockpile.

Between 2002 and 2006, nearly a third of the 55-person staff in the Denver office received gifts and gratuities from oil and gas companies, including Chevron, Shell, Hess Corp. and Denver-based Gary-Williams Energy Corp. the investigators found. Two oil marketers who received gifts and gratuities on at least 135 occasions displayed no remorse when confronted with their activities, Devaney said. He singled out Chevron as refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

Don Campbell, a Chevron spokesman, said Wednesday that the company "produced all of the documents that the government requested months ago."

The reports also said former head of the Denver Royalty-in-Kind office, Gregory W. Smith, used cocaine and had sex with subordinates. The report said Smith also steered government contracts to a consulting business that was employing him part-time.

Smith, contacted by e-mail by The Associated Press, said he had not seen the report and could not respond. He and nine other employees in the Denver office are mentioned in the reports.

MMS Director Randall Luthi, in an interview with the AP, said the agency was taking the report "extremely seriously" and would review the allegations and weigh taking appropriate action in coming months. The Inspector General is recommending that current employees implicated be fired and be barred for life from working within the royalty program.

House Natural Resources Chairman Nick Rahall, D-W.Va., said "this whole IG report reads like a script from a television miniseries and one that cannot air during family viewing time. It is no wonder that the office was doing such a lousy job of overseeing the RIK program; clearly the employees had 'other' priorities in that office."

One of the employees named in the investigation, Jimmy Mayberry, has already pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Washington to violations of conflict-of-interest laws. The Justice Department declined to prosecute Smith and former Associate Director of the Minerals Revenue Management program Lucy Querques Denett, who the report says manipulated contracts to ensure they were awarded to former Interior employees.

The findings are the latest sign of trouble at the Minerals Management Service, which has already been accused of mismanaging the collection of fees from oil companies and writing faulty contracts for drilling on government land and offshore. The charges also come as lawmakers and both presidential candidates weigh giving oil companies more access to federal lands, which would bring in more money to the federal government.

"This all shows the oil industry holds shocking sway over the administration and even key federal employees," said Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla. "This is why we must not allow Big Oil's agenda to be jammed through Congress."

While most government royalties for drilling on federal lands are paid in cash, the government in recent years has been receiving a greater share of its oil and gas royalties in the actual product. More of that oil is also being sold on the open market, versus being deposited in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, the nation's emergency oil stockpile. Congress earlier this year passed a law halting deposits of oil to the reserve to alleviate high gasoline prices.

Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne, who was asked about the reports earlier in the day before they were given to him and congressional offices, said the investigation was prompted by a 2006 phone call from anemployee who said there were ethical lapses in the Denver office.

"I look forward to having the opportunity to review the inspector general's findings so we can take the appropriate actions," Kempthorne said.


jag

[StorminNorman]

his speech on the night of Obama's acceptance speech for the Dem. candidate...

"I STRONGLY disagreed with the Bush admininstration's mismanagement with the war in Iraq."

...yeah, that's why he was so adamant about making the war look like it was going well that he lied about Petraeus going around in an unarmed humvee which ended up with him having to put his money where his mouth is by visiting Iraq with a thick bullet proof vest and a whole squad covering him while he acts like everything is fine.

And he WAS STRONGLY against the Bush mishandling of the war - which is exactly what I said. That does not mean he was against the war in Iraq. Read my original post.

Also, I would expect any major American figure to be well protected while traveling in a country where Al Queda members are known to hang out.


so he was against HIMSELF trying to get this war started? he had his hand in going to war, it's not as if he wasn't buddy buddy with Bush during that time. he was one of the biggest advocates of the war. so you're telling me that he was against himself?

No. He was NOT against the war - he was against the handling of the war after the Saddam government failed. He advocated for the surge (that ended up working) long before the Bush administration implemented it and frequently criticized the Bush administration for not doing so.

[StorminNorman]

Let's get one thing straight. Alaska is next to Russia, but it's next to Siberia, the most interaction she'll have is with the smoke signals political dissidents are sending her from whatever gulag Putin has built out there. Next, whether Alaska is forced to interact or not is immaterial, she applied for her passport for the first time last year, so she hadn't been out of the country (except to Canada persumeably) until then. That, by definition, is not having to interact with countries.

I've never seen it quantified with actual instances of her interacting with Russia on any issues, let alone issues of National Security, Norm. Just the vapid claim that she has national security and foreign policy experience because Alaska is kind of close to Russia.

jag

Just because she never left the country does not mean that as Governor she never dealt with policy that involved other countries.

Again - Alaska is a major oil state, it deals with foreign companies, foreign states. This isn't Iowa in the middle of the states.

[jaguarr]

Just because she never left the country does not mean that as Governor she never dealt with policy that involved other countries.

Again - Alaska is a major oil state, it deals with foreign companies, foreign states. This isn't Iowa in the middle of the states.

I've never seen it quantified with actual instances of her interacting with Russia on any issues, let alone issues of National Security, Norm. Just the vapid claim that she has national security and foreign policy experience because Alaska is kind of close to Russia.


jag

[DorkyFresh]

And he WAS STRONGLY against the Bush mishandling of the war - which is exactly what I said. That does not mean he was against the war in Iraq. Read my original post.
well then i take back that he said he was against the war as a whole, but he still lied about saying that he wasn't an expert in economics...amongst other things. :oldrazz:

[Excel]

I went to the McCain/Palin rally today in SW Ohio. There was about 5500 people there, or so the local media reported. The crowd consisted mainly of older, very well dressed business men and women, and the usual church crowd. There was also a smaller group of protesters (no I was not one of them.) They were all peacfully demonstrating. It continues to amaze me how the Republican ticket can continue to feed the public the lies they do, and get away with it.

:csad:

Sure.






:p

[kainedamo]

Oh god this is the worst McCain ad yet :csad:

LK4oWay1VbE

[jaguarr]

Oh god this is the worst McCain ad yet :csad:

LK4oWay1VbE

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...euPGwD93435N00 (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYpS6G-fl1u-yS2zifc0FsveuPGwD93435N00)

Analysis: McCain ad twists truth

By The Associated Press – 35 minutes ago

TITLE: "Fact Check."

LENGTH: 30 seconds.

AIRING: The campaign would not disclose where this ad will air other than to say in "key states" where McCain already is running commercials. That lack of information raises questions about how often this ad will be seen by voters or whether it was simply made to generate news stories and publicity.

SCRIPT: Announcer: "The attacks on Governor Palin have been called 'completely false' ... 'misleading.' And, they've just begun. The Journal reports Obama 'air-dropped a mini-army of 30 lawyers, investigators and opposition researchers' into Alaska to dig dirt on Governor Palin. As Obama drops in the polls, he'll try to destroy her. Obama's 'politics of hope?' Empty words." McCain: "I'm John McCain and I approved this message."

KEY IMAGES: Palin and Obama are shown, as well as what appears to be a pack of wolves running through brush. McCain also is shown.

ANALYSIS:

This ad takes the truth and twists it.

The campaign asserts that "attacks on Governor Palin have been called 'completely false' and 'misleading" — and uses pictures of Obama to suggest that the Democrat has been spreading lies about Palin.

To back up its claim, McCain's team points to comments made by prominent Democrats, including some with links to Obama's campaign, incorrectly aligning Palin with Pat Buchanan and a fringe political group in which some members supported Alaska's secession from the United States.

More prominently, McCain's ad quotes a nonpartisan online organization called factcheck.org.

But the group wasn't referring to Obama when it talked of false and misleading attacks. Rather, it referenced Internet rumors, saying: "We've been flooded for the past few days with queries about dubious Internet postings and mass e-mail messages making claims about McCain's running mate, Gov. Palin. We find that many are completely false or misleading."

At the same time, the McCain ad takes Obama's campaign to task over a Wall Street Journal column that said operatives were going to "dig into her record and background." The ad distorts that by saying "dig dirt."

Obama's campaign has called the Journal report "false," and Obama spokesman Josh Earnest said in a conference call that "there are no Obama or DNC staffers or researchers that were air-dropped into Alaska." He declined to answer whether Democratic lawyers in Alaska had been recruited to do research on Palin in the state.

What McCain doesn't say in the ad is that Republicans also have amassed reams of research on Obama and his running mate Joe Biden after going through their records and backgrounds. This "opposition research" is the norm in modern political campaigns, not that a viewer would know that from the commercial.

It's certainly the case that Obama has criticized Palin, saying that she and McCain don't deserve the label of change agents and are spewing "empty words."

But it remains to be seen whether such criticisms have "just begun" as the ad asserts, and whether Obama really will "try to destroy" Palin as he "drops in polls." Neither of those assertions are drawn from facts; McCain's campaign simply is saying what it believes will happen without offering voters any proof.

McCain's ad claims that Obama is spreading misleading information about Palin, yet it was unveiled one day after the GOP ticket itself released its own commercial that stretched the facts.

That ad said that Obama's only education accomplishment was legislation to teach sex education to kindergartners. Obama voted for the sex education bill in committee in 2003 as an Illinois states senator, but he was not the sponsor of that legislation. The bill also would have required age-appropriate information in schools and would have allowed parents to pull their children from sex education classes if they wished. It never became law.

jag

[kainedamo]

Factcheck.org calls the new ad out on its BS.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html

I mean, wow! This was an incredibly stupid move on the part of McCain's campaign. To misrepresent what Factcheck says... did they not realize that Factcheck would comment on this? :whatever:

[Knives]

Factcheck.org calls the new ad out on its BS.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html

I mean, wow! This was an incredibly stupid move on the part of McCain's campaign. To misrepresent what Factcheck says... did they not realize that Factcheck would comment on this? :whatever:

THEY.DONT.CARE. Nobody cares! The american people take everything on face value now. The way things work now is someone says something false, it becomes TRUTH immediately, then it gets debunked, but the seeds of distortion remain. People are too stupid or too lazy to look for the real truth and the media is all too happy to keep the b.s. going. Obama is going to have to throw down and play this game on equal temrs or watch McCain win in a landslide. That ad is going to work wonders even with how completely and utterly false it is. This election is turning into complete slime thanks to the republicans. They know this is the ONLY way they can win and its working. This is what our politics has become. That ad is what it has all become. "issues" are long over.

[kainedamo]

THEY.DONT.CARE. Nobody cares! The american people take everything on face value now. The way things work now is someone says something false, it becomes TRUTH immediately, then it gets debunked, but the seeds of distortion remain. People are too stupid or too lazy to look for the real truth and the media is all too happy to keep the b.s. going. Obama is going to have to throw down and play this game on equal temrs or watch McCain win in a landslide. That ad is going to work wonders even with how completely and utterly false it is. This election is turning into complete slime thanks to the republicans. They know this is the ONLY way they can win and its working. This is what our politics has become. That ad is what it has all become. "issues" are long over.

Relax a little. I think we'll see Obama rise in the polls very soon.

[Raiden]

THEY.DONT.CARE. Nobody cares! The american people take everything on face value now. The way things work now is someone says something false, it becomes TRUTH immediately, then it gets debunked, but the seeds of distortion remain. People are too stupid or too lazy to look for the real truth and the media is all too happy to keep the b.s. going. Obama is going to have to throw down and play this game on equal temrs or watch McCain win in a landslide. That ad is going to work wonders even with how completely and utterly false it is. This election is turning into complete slime thanks to the republicans. They know this is the ONLY way they can win and its working. This is what our politics has become. That ad is what it has all become. "issues" are long over.

Yeah, unfortunately McCain has now lowered himself in Karl Rove's level.

[Matt]

Oh god this is the worst McCain ad yet :csad:

LK4oWay1VbE

Worst yet? I dunno about that.


Factcheck.org calls the new ad out on its BS.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html

I mean, wow! This was an incredibly stupid move on the part of McCain's campaign. To misrepresent what Factcheck says... did they not realize that Factcheck would comment on this? :whatever:

Thats slightly embarrassing.

[Knives]

Relax a little. I think we'll see Obama rise in the polls very soon.

I'll beleive that when I see it. As of right now this is an exact replica of the 04 election.

If he starts fighting back hard and can refocus this campaign, he'll be on the way to winning. If not, he's sunk.

[ShadowBoxing]

Just because she never left the country does not mean that as Governor she never dealt with policy that involved other countries.

Again - Alaska is a major oil state, it deals with foreign companies, foreign states. This isn't Iowa in the middle of the states.
My Dad deals with foreign countries selling bearings, the city of Charleston deals directly with China quite frequently, however, I'd hardly call either foreign policy experience.

[ShadowBoxing]

Thats slightly embarrassing.They may be forced to pull the ad.

[Matt]

They may be forced to pull the ad.

Upon viewing the ad for a second time...I doubt they will. They never say Obama is behind the misleading attacks on Palin that factcheck.org called false. They heavily imply it, but never say it. Therefore they can just play that card.

[Knives]

Exactly. The ad wont get pulled. It'll be too embarassing for them. They risk less keeping it on since they dont give a damna bout being debunked. Removing it would be admitting they are making **** up. They cant have that.