The McCain Thread

[StorminNorman]

Well, I don't know if it is definitely Portman. Considering Mitt Romney doesn't have a home state (he's disliked immensely in Massachusetts and he can barely call Michigan "Mitt Country"), McCain can pretty much make the announcement anywhere he pleases. Also, since McCain is apparently spending one of the following days in Pennsylvania, Tom Ridge could also be in the running. But Portman would make the most sense, considering Ohio is his homestate and he is an economic expert in that economically-stagnant state.

So I'm guessing Portman, Romney and Ridge are the top contenders.
I would have little problem with Portman really, but I think he is risky because of his connections with George W.

[Chris B]

I think Romney odds of getting picked will skyrocket if Obama ends up going with Biden. McCain is going to need someone who will be able to go toe-to-toe with him in the VP debate, and Pawlenty and Portman aren't going to cut it.

[The Senator]

I think Romney odds of getting picked will skyrocket if Obama ends up going with Biden. McCain is going to need someone who will be able to go toe-to-toe with him in the VP debate, and Pawlenty and Portman aren't going to cut it.

I would love to see Biden own Romney if he tries saying something ridiculous like "the Democrats support Islamofascism and Jihad" like he did when he withdrew from the primary. Biden is a master of quips and rebuttals, he's probably the only person who can put Romney in his place.

[Marx]

I think Romney odds of getting picked will skyrocket if Obama ends up going with Biden. McCain is going to need someone who will be able to go toe-to-toe with him in the VP debate, and Pawlenty and Portman aren't going to cut it.

I would love to see a Biden/Romney VP debate! That would be amusing! :yay:

[Chris B]

I would love to see Biden own Romney if he tries saying something ridiculous like "the Democrats support Islamofascism and Jihad" like he did when he withdrew from the primary. Biden is a master of quips and rebuttals, he's probably the only person who can put Romney in his place.

The look on Romney's face would be pretty priceless. :woot:

[Überlibran]

If Wright was personally addressing any men who acted hostile to him - that is one thing, that would be comparable.

Wright was painting an entire race with an evil brush - McCain was not. When you use a racial epithet like McCain did, it's not just an insult to those you're talking about, it's an insult to the entire race.

[Kelly]

When you use a racial epithet like McCain did, it's not just an insult to those you're talking about, it's an insult to the entire race.


You mean I'm supposed to get mad every time someone is called a "cracker", or anytime a woman is called a "b****".....damn.

[jaguarr]

You mean I'm supposed to get mad every time someone is called a "cracker", or anytime a woman is called a "b****".....damn.

Or when someone calls a white woman a "cracka *****"? :huh:

:p

jag

[Überlibran]

You mean I'm supposed to get mad every time someone is called a "cracker", or anytime a woman is called a "b****".....damn. Of course not, people vary on what they consider offensive according to their backgrounds and their beliefs. To me calling anyone who is not a member of said minority a 'g**k,' 'n****r', 'k*ke' or f*g' etc., in a demeaning manner is offensive. But if someone believes that you shouldn't get worked up about such things, that also means someone can't turn around and find offense at other things which suits their convenience.

[Überlibran]

An interesting article on McCain by a former classmate and fellow POW of his: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html . It's an interesting read if you can get beyond the title. And it's old too (from March) so I apologize in advance and agree to be flogged with a cat o' ninetails if it's been posted before. :oldrazz:

[kainedamo]

If Wright was personally addressing any men who acted hostile to him - that is one thing, that would be comparable.

Wright was painting an entire race with an evil brush - McCain was not.

There's Norman twisting the facts.

Wright was talking about the government.

[StorminNorman]

McCain up by 5 in Zogby Poll:

By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a sharp turnaround, Republican John McCain has opened a 5-point lead on Democrat Barack Obama in the U.S. presidential race and is seen as a stronger manager of the economy, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.

The reversal follows a month of attacks by McCain, who has questioned Obama's experience, criticized his opposition to most new offshore oil drilling and mocked his overseas trip.

The poll was taken Thursday through Saturday as Obama wrapped up a weeklong vacation in Hawaii that ceded the political spotlight to McCain, who seized on Russia's invasion of Georgia to emphasize his foreign policy views.

"There is no doubt the campaign to discredit Obama is paying off for McCain right now," pollster John Zogby said. "This is a significant ebb for Obama."

McCain now has a 9-point edge, 49 percent to 40 percent, over Obama on the critical question of who would be the best manager of the economy -- an issue nearly half of voters said was their top concern in the November 4 presidential election.

That margin reversed Obama's 4-point edge last month on the economy over McCain, an Arizona senator and former Vietnam prisoner of war who has admitted a lack of economic expertise and shows far greater interest in foreign and military policy.

McCain has been on the offensive against Obama during the last month over energy concerns, with polls showing strong majorities supporting his call for an expansion of offshore oil drilling as gasoline prices hover near $4 a gallon.

Obama had opposed new offshore drilling, but said recently he would support a limited expansion as part of a comprehensive energy program.

That was one of several recent policy shifts for Obama, as he positions himself for the general election battle. But Zogby said the changes could be taking a toll on Obama's support, particularly among Democrats and self-described liberals.

"That hairline difference between nuance and what appears to be flip-flopping is hurting him with liberal voters," Zogby said.

Obama's support among Democrats fell 9 percentage points this month to 74 percent, while McCain has the backing of 81 percent of Republicans. Support for Obama, an Illinois senator, fell 12 percentage points among liberals, with 10 percent of liberals still undecided compared to 9 percent of conservatives.

OBAMA NEEDS TO WORK ON BASE

"Conservatives were supposed to be the bigger problem for McCain," Zogby said. "Obama still has work to do on his base. At this point McCain seems to be doing a better job with his."

The dip in support for Obama, who would be the first black U.S. president, cut across demographic and ideological lines. He slipped among Catholics, born-again Christians, women, independents and younger voters. He retained the support of more than 90 percent of black voters.

"There were no wild swings, there isn't one group that is radically different than last month or even two months ago. It was just a steady decline for Obama across the board," Zogby said.

Obama's support among voters between the ages of 18 and 29, which had been one of his strengths, slipped 12 percentage points to 52 percent. McCain, who will turn 72 next week, was winning 40 percent of younger voters.

"Those are not the numbers Obama needs to win," Zogby said about Americans under 30. The 47-year-old is counting on a strong turnout among young voters, a key bloc of support during his primary battle with New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

It made little difference when independent candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Party candidate Bob Barr, who are both trying to add their names to state ballots.

McCain still held a 5-point edge over Obama, 44 percent to 39 percent, when all four names were included. Barr earned 3 percent and Nader 2 percent.

Most national polls have given Obama a narrow lead over McCain throughout the summer. In the Reuters/Zogby poll, Obama had a 5-point lead in June, shortly after he clinched the Democratic nomination, and an 8-point lead on McCain in May.

The telephone poll of 1,089 likely voters had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

The poll was taken as both candidates head into their nominating conventions and the announcements of their choices of vice presidential picks. The Democratic convention begins on Monday in Denver, with the Republican convention opening the next Monday, September 1, in St. Paul, Minnesota.

[StorminNorman]

There's Norman twisting the facts.

Wright was talking about the government.

Read Wright's statements - look at the way he used the term "white" when describing people. He preaches that white's in America are keeping the black men in America down...in spite of the fact that he personally is a very wealthy, powerful man...in spite of the fact that Obama is a Presidential candidate...in spite of the fact that Opera is the richest woman on Earth...

His sermons are dripping in racist hatred and to try to argue that fact is not only foolish on your end, but just as pointless for me as it would be arguing the sky is blue.

[jaguarr]

An interesting article on McCain by a former classmate and fellow POW of his: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html . It's an interesting read if you can get beyond the title. And it's old too (from March) so I apologize in advance and agree to be flogged with a cat o' ninetails if it's been posted before. :oldrazz:

I've never seen that before. Thank you for posting it.

jag

[kainedamo]

Vet ripping into McCain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzr3pdXqZ98

hzr3pdXqZ98

McCain disses disabled woman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0lBN14rTeQ&feature=related

l0lBN14rTeQ&feature=related

Protestor removed for "trespassing"

6lyaMrS0hzk&NR=1

[Superman]

Did McCain agree that we need a draft? You decide...
aRMFwXGBMfI

[Superman4ever]

^^EDIT: HAHA beat me to it!

McCain supports reinstating the draft! (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/20/mccain-support-draft/)

aRMFwXGBMfI&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/20/mccain-support-draft/

[Superman4ever]

Fellow POW will NOT vote for McCain! (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/08/19/fellow-pow-won-t-vote-for-mccain/#cont)

[Matt]

There's Norman twisting the facts.

Wright was talking about the government.

Kaine, you did not even know what Wright had actually said until Jman and I copy and pasted it for you. Now you are saying Norman is twisting the facts, when the facts are Wright said "The white man" created the AIDS virus. So unless "The white man," is Wright's way of saying the United States government (and you have nothing to back that up with...YOU are the one twisting the fact.

[Matt]

Did McCain agree that we need a draft? You decide...
aRMFwXGBMfI

^^EDIT: HAHA beat me to it!

McCain supports reinstating the draft! (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/20/mccain-support-draft/)

aRMFwXGBMfI&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/20/mccain-support-draft/

McCain should just never speak. Ever.

[Spider-Bite]

McCain should pick somebody who knows how to use the internet for his Vice President.

[Spider-Bite]

Did McCain agree that we need a draft? You decide...
aRMFwXGBMfI

the last 10 or 15 seonds will make a great ad, but I personally think that when McCain said that, he was referring to his upset over veterans not being treated properly, and not really thinking of the last line.

[Lightning Strykez!]

McCain should pick somebody who knows how to use the internet for his Vice President.

Hee hee! :hehe:

[redfirebird2008]

So I wonder if the media will do their usual schilling for McCain and sweep his military draft "I don't disagree" comment under the rug? They've already allowed him to lie about his integrity (cheating on his first wife with current wife Cindy because his first wife wasn't good enough looking after having a car accident), to lie about his opponent repeatedly, and I imagine that they'll continue to allow him to do whatever the hell he wants. Even one of his own advisors admitted early on in this campaign that McCain has had more of a free ride from the media than any politician since Reagan.

[Lightning Strykez!]

So I wonder if the media will do their usual schilling for McCain and sweep his military draft "I don't disagree" comment under the rug? They've already allowed him to lie about his integrity (cheating on his first wife with current wife Cindy because his first wife wasn't good enough looking after having a car accident), to lie about his opponent repeatedly, and I imagine that they'll continue to allow him to do whatever the hell he wants. Even one of his own advisors admitted early on in this campaign that McCain has had more of a free ride from the media than any politician since Reagan.

Hey, where the heck have you been?! It's good to see you. :D:up:

[Knives]

So I wonder if the media will do their usual schilling for McCain and sweep his military draft "I don't disagree" comment under the rug? They've already allowed him to lie about his integrity (cheating on his first wife with current wife Cindy because his first wife wasn't good enough looking after having a car accident), to lie about his opponent repeatedly, and I imagine that they'll continue to allow him to do whatever the hell he wants. Even one of his own advisors admitted early on in this campaign that McCain has had more of a free ride from the media than any politician since Reagan.

Of course they'll sweep it under the rug. Like they do all his other gaffs. If they bothered to do any bit of fair reporting on McCain, he'd be behind by 20 points in the polls. And Obama of course wont even BOTHER mentioning it since he is completely useless when it comes to attacking McCain (and is therefore is serious danger of losing what should have been an EASY election). If it were me, that draft line would be the focus of a new TV ad played all over the swing states. But of course we will NEVER hear of it again from anybody.

[redfirebird2008]

Of course they'll sweep it under the rug. Like they do all his other gaffs. If they bothered to do any bit of fair reporting on McCain, he'd be behind by 20 points in the polls. And Obama of course wont even BOTHER mentioning it since he is completely useless when it comes to attacking McCain (and is therefore is serious danger of losing what should have been an EASY election). If it were me, that draft line would be the focus of a new TV ad played all over the swing states. But of course we will NEVER hear of it again from anybody.

Yeah, unfortunately Obama isn't hitting him back despite all the lies. The latest one I saw was his claim that Obama isn't seeking the Presidency with the country's interest at heart but is seeking it due to personal ambition. Well, golly gee. A politician who's ambitious? Who woulda thunk it? The irony here is that John McCain wrote a book in 2002 in which he stated that his 2000 campaign for President was the result of personal ambition, not out of duty to country, etc. Olbermann even played the audiobook version of McCain reading that quote from the book. Olbermann is the only person in the media that is calling McCain out on his lies. That's not enough, especially when Obama pretty much just sits back and lets McCain do whatever the heck he wants.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_admitted_ambition_drove_desire_to_0820.html

[Lightning Strykez!]

Frankly I don't understand why Obama isn't hitting back more toughly. I know he doesn't want to compromise his campaign theme but still...

[Knives]

Frankly I don't understand why Obama isn't hitting back more toughly. I know he doesn't want to compromise his campaign theme but still...


It truly boggles the mind! He has so much material to use, an dhe just lays there like a lump, getting walked on. Now its ruined his poll numbers. He is going to have to get dirty to win this thing or be the next John Kerry.

[redfirebird2008]

It truly boggles the mind! He has so much material to use, an dhe just lays there like a lump, getting walked on. Now its ruined his poll numbers. He is going to have to get dirty to win this thing or be the next John Kerry.

The most frustrating thing about it is that there's a lot of TRUTH to hit McCain with. McCain basically throws wild accusations at Obama every day on the stump in hopes that something will stick. And as usual, it does...because the public is pretty stupid (GWB got re-elected with the same type of campaign tactics McCain is using, so we KNOW the public is dumb enough to fall for this garbage). Apparently it was just fine for the Republicans to tear down John Kerry's war record but John McCain's is off limits, even though from what I've read his war record has been glossed over. Also, his treatment of his first wife, and even his treatment of his second wife (calling her the c-word b/c he can't control his temper when she makes a joke at his expense) calls into question his claims of integrity. His blatant lies in this campaign after claiming he would NOT engage in that type of campaign also calls into question his integrity. His constant flip-flopping calls into question his claims of being a maverick. He's not a maverick, he's a panderer. And yet constantly throughout the Olympics you see him running a campaign ad calling himself the "original maverick." Another thing, that same campaign ad tries to pretend that he's a change from Bush. He's voted 90% in line with Bush's policies. So exactly how is that a maverick and a change from the disasterous current administration? It's not, but Obama won't call him out on it.

[redfirebird2008]

This pretty much sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oot9IbQxrI

[Excel]

RF where the **** have you been? What up :up:

[kainedamo]

Frankly I don't understand why Obama isn't hitting back more toughly. I know he doesn't want to compromise his campaign theme but still...

Well, the weird thing is, you have people like Matt that already think Obama is hitting back TOO toughly.

[Excel]

Frankly I don't understand why Obama isn't hitting back more toughly. I know he doesn't want to compromise his campaign theme but still...

What happens last is remembered first.

The DNC next week will have a substantial bounce in polls, and after that, as the definitve nominee, I think we'll see the warm yet take no **** Obama we saw earlier in the spring.

[kainedamo]

How do you guys feel about Obama's new negative ads?

[kainedamo]

Big Lies By Cindy McCain

v39vjM1rxB8

Dude makes a good point. Michelle Obama could not get away with that.

Did John McCain Lie About His P.O.W Record?

90Ue-p-xxsM

[StorminNorman]

Big Lies By Cindy McCain

v39vjM1rxB8

Dude makes a good point. Michelle Obama could not get away with that.

Did John McCain Lie About His P.O.W Record?

90Ue-p-xxsM

Your going to need something more credible than youtube video's by a group calling themselves "The Young Turks" :huh:

[Superman4ever]

Big Lies By Cindy McCain
v39vjM1rxB8
Dude makes a good point. Michelle Obama could not get away with that.


Nice. This just goes to show that there is NO such thing as a "left-media", if there were they'd press this issue (among a MILE long list of other offenses by this psychotic establishment) further. The McCain campaign is creating lie after lie and is easily getting away with it. It's like they're scared of offending him.

Your going to need something more credible than youtube video's by a group calling themselves "The Young Turks" :huh:

How about the Christian Science Monitor? Hm?

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/

[jaguarr]

Good morning, My Friends!!!!!! :funny:

jag

[The Senator]

Has anyone wondered why John McCain hasn't made his military records public? Something tells me that behind the oh-so-heroic POW story of his, he's hiding a lot of unwanted memories. You know, like all the planes he crashed, all the commanding officers he disobeyed, his temper in general...

These points are something brought up by the Huffington Post a while back, which says that McCain may actually dread an Obama-Clark ticket. Why? Because Clark has a military record which has been examined by the public for years; McCain has a record which has been shrouded in secrecy-- other than the whole "I was tortured" bit we've heard time and time again:


In "If Clark is the VP-choice, Here are Some Contrasts with McCain" (August 16, 2008), there was a list of contrasts to John McCain, each one of which could have been elaborated upon to fill an entire article. Some were military, others character, still others "civilian." By all those accounts McCain pales in comparison to Clark.

It could have been added that Clark had several appointments that required Senate approval. McCain never did. Clark was approved by a voice vote of the Republican-controlled Senate to be Supreme Allied Commander Europe. John McCain was part of that Republican-controlled Senate.

But, the selection of Wesley Clark as Barack Obama's VP running mate will have another consequence that the McCain camp could not survive.

Inevitably, inexorably, indubitably the military records of these two men will be opened, examined, sliced and diced and compared by the press. Enormous pressure will build on McCain to sign a release form that allows access to all his military records, a step he has never taken.

Even George W Bush was pressured into releasing his records, and shame on the Kerry campaign for not pointing out, for example, that Bush checked the "no" box when asked if he would volunteer for overseas duty; that Bush decided for himself not to take a physical, the first airman in military history to determine which regulations he would, and would not, follow, and so on.

The pressure on Bush came from his opponent being a war hero himself.

Despite his imprisonment in North Vietnam, there is reason to believe that McCain's entire military record will not look very good compared to Wes Clark's. Included in such documents will be the planes McCain crashed, his overall behavior and demeanor, comments upon his leadership potential by commanding officers, his temper and other events we can only surmise.

The Republican 527s will, as they did with John Kerry, feel compelled to bring down Wes Clark. After all, he was shot in 4 places while he continued to lead his troops out of harm's way and defeat the attacking Viet Cong contingent for which he was awarded a Silver Star. Clark rose in the ranks to become a 4-star General and, as Supreme Allied Commander Europe, conducted the entire Kosovo war without a single US casualty.

Democratic groups will have no choice but to insist that the sun shine on McCain's record as well.

As McCain's military record is shown not to match up to Clark's, his only appeal for the presidency will fade into the shadows.

[redfirebird2008]

Finally Obama is on the attack!

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[jaguarr]

Jman, did you see this link Uberlibrarian shared yesterday?

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

Well worth the read, given your latest post.

jag

[Raiden]

Finally Obama is on the attack!

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It's about time. I think his vacation in Hawaii left him vulnerable to McCain's attacks, and this is part of the reason why the polls have him behind McCain right now.

[redfirebird2008]

And McCain flip-flops on abortion for about the 200th time in his career:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/mccain-backs-aw.html

I don't know if I've ever seen someone switch positions so often. Torture, the economy, abortion, etc. Just about the only thing he's consistent on is something the American public do not support: warmongering. He recently said at a townhall meeting that he "does not disagree at all" with a woman's statement that we need to bring back the draft in order to "chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell."

Obama needs to hit him hard with ads on the draft. Run them all over the country. 80% of this country is against a military draft. The only people who are for it are the die hard right wingers. The 20% who still believe Bush is doing a good job.

[jaguarr]

Obama needs to hit him hard with ads on the draft. Run them all over the country.

You want a way to motivate young people to get out and vote? There it is. "Vote for Obama or your ass is going to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Georgia or Russia, whether you want to or not!" Want a way to motivate parents to vote? "John McCain wants to send your child overseas to fight his 100 Year War. *followed by the end of that clip*". McCain handed them a big hammer on a silver platter to hit him with.

jag

[StorminNorman]

And McCain flip-flops on abortion for about the 200th time in his career:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/mccain-backs-aw.html

I don't know if I've ever seen someone switch positions so often. Torture, the economy, abortion, etc. Just about the only thing he's consistent on is something the American public do not support: warmongering. He recently said at a townhall meeting that he "does not disagree at all" with a woman's statement that we need to bring back the draft in order to "chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell."

Obama needs to hit him hard with ads on the draft. Run them all over the country. 80% of this country is against a military draft. The only people who are for it are the die hard right wingers. The 20% who still believe Bush is doing a good job.

I wish I would take the stand and change that outdated party platform.

[redfirebird2008]

You want a way to motivate young people to get out and vote? There it is. "Vote for Obama or your ass is going to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Georgia or Russia, whether you want to or not!" McCain handed them a big hammer on a silver platter to hit him with.

jag

And his recent comment is not the first time he's said it. There's video of him at another campaign event from during the Republican primary where he says something to the effect of, "I want to say something to the young people here. I'm going to ask you to serve. There will be more wars."

He didn't blatantly say there would be a draft, but just 2 days ago he confirmed that he has no problem bringing it back.

[redfirebird2008]

https://www.mifire.org/news/Union%20Leaders%20Boo%20McCain.pdf


But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.

McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the
crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.

Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain's job offer.
"I'll take it!" one man shouted.

McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. "You can't do it, my
friends."

Some in the crowd said they didn't appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.



What a dolt. $50 an hour isn't enough to get an American to pick lettuce, eh McRetard? This guy is completely out of touch.

[kainedamo]

McCain is very, very dangerous.

[kainedamo]

https://www.mifire.org/news/Union%20Leaders%20Boo%20McCain.pdf



What a dolt. $50 an hour isn't enough to get an American to pick lettuce, eh McRetard? This guy is completely out of touch.

Holy crap. $50 an hour?? I've never earned that much.

McCain seems to be saying a string of dumb crap lately. The media needs to play this stuff up. Obama? I'm not sure how negative his ads should be. I mean, a clip of McCain saying this, played repeatidly... it would do a lot of damage.
EDIT: That was from 2006?

[redfirebird2008]

Holy crap. $50 an hour?? I've never earned that much.

McCain seems to be saying a string of dump crap lately. The media needs to play this stuff up. Obama? I'm not sure how negative his ads should be. I mean, a clip of McCain saying this, played repeatidly... it would do a lot of damage.

Or this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mP-0pedQeGw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mP-0pedQeGw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[jaguarr]

https://www.mifire.org/news/Union%20Leaders%20Boo%20McCain.pdf



What a dolt. $50 an hour isn't enough to get an American to pick lettuce, eh McRetard? This guy is completely out of touch.

LMAO! Yeah, because wages of that nature for picking produce certainly wouldn't cause the price of said produce to go through the ceiling and make demand for it practically non-existent and therefore crash that entire market, would it? :hehe:

jag

[kainedamo]

EDIT: Nevermind I see it now.

[The Senator]

https://www.mifire.org/news/Union%20Leaders%20Boo%20McCain.pdf



What a dolt. $50 an hour isn't enough to get an American to pick lettuce, eh McRetard? This guy is completely out of touch.

Combine this with the $300 million Super Awesome Car Battery Extravaganza!!! and his insistence that we continue to cut taxes even though our economy can't handle it and it appears as though McCain is saying anything he can to buy votes off of average voters...

[jaguarr]

Combine this with the $300 million Super Awesome Car Battery Extravaganza!!! and his insistence that we continue to cut taxes even though our economy can't handle it and it appears as though McCain is saying anything he can to buy votes off of average voters...

And play that clip of Phil Gramm calling Americans whiners over and over again and saying that the problems with the economy are all in their head.

jag

[redfirebird2008]

Combine this with the $300 million Super Awesome Car Battery Extravaganza!!! and his insistence that we continue to cut taxes even though our economy can't handle it and it appears as though McCain is saying anything he can to buy votes off of average voters...

Yeah, let's cut taxes AND bring back the draft so that we can, you know, start up more wars with the likes of Iran and Russia using our bad credit with China. Wonderful idea!

This is hilarious:

And the Obama campaign in Florida and Pennsylvania has sent out a release lauding the launch of a "statewide search to find Floridians/Pennsylvanians who, like John McCain, have so many homes that they just can’t keep track of the number."

From the Pennsylvania release:

The campaign will spend the day surveying Pennsylvanians by phone to ask this question:

“Yesterday, John McCain couldn’t remember how many homes he owns because he has so many. The Obama campaign is trying to find Pennsylvanians who, like McCain, have lost track of the number of homes they own. Do you know how many homes you own?”

The campaign will announce the results of the search late this afternoon and they will produce a video of the responses they get in Love Park.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/21/politics/horserace/entry4370050.shtml

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

[DorkyFresh]

McCain is very, very dangerous.

that's an understatement.

Has anyone wondered why John McCain hasn't made his military records public? Something tells me that behind the oh-so-heroic POW story of his, he's hiding a lot of unwanted memories. You know, like all the planes he crashed, all the commanding officers he disobeyed, his temper in general...

These points are something brought up by the Huffington Post a while back, which says that McCain may actually dread an Obama-Clark ticket. Why? Because Clark has a military record which has been examined by the public for years; McCain has a record which has been shrouded in secrecy-- other than the whole "I was tortured" bit we've heard time and time again:

i kinda hope Clark is Obama's veep now. after all, there are a slew of Vietnam vets that will attest to McCain's behavior as a POW...

vFM1xqqTX_g

[kainedamo]

Obama continues his attacks on McCain...

FlZ-_Sstt5I

[redfirebird2008]

Obama continues his attacks on McCain...

FlZ-_Sstt5I

I actually watched that live earlier. Obama was on fire. Really nailing the issues when people asked questions. He was pretty funny too and got in some nice jabs at McCain.

[Superman4ever]

And play that clip of Phil Gramm calling Americans whiners over and over again and saying that the problems with the economy are all in their head.

jag

And this gets me too. This guy calls Americans "whiners" (or claims that we're facing a "mental recession (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/071108dnpolgramm.424e457.html)") among ALL the problems the average family is facing right now and NO one is really calling him out on it. It's an outright slap to the face of EVERY American and Obama, is suppose to be the "elitist" here?

[redfirebird2008]

And this gets me too. This guy calls Americans "whiners" (or claims that we're facing a "mental recession (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/071108dnpolgramm.424e457.html)") among ALL the problems the average family is facing right now and NO one is really calling him out on it. It's an outright slap to the face of EVERY American and Obama, is suppose to be the "elitist" here?

That's because John McCain gets more of a free ride from the media than any politician in America right now. It's been that way his entire career. Otherwise, he'd be sunk. The guy's career is loaded with flip-flops, gaffes, and outright insensitivity to the general consensus on certain issues in America (cough...we don't like wars...cough).

[The Senator]

As I've said, forgetfulness appears to run rampant in the McCain household:




McCain can't remember how many houses he owns
Roberta McCain "swears on the Bible" that she didn't sue her son's first wife (she did)
McCain can't remember the times he said he knows nothing about the economy (he said it in 2000, 2007, and 2008)
McCain seems to forget that he left his first wife because she was a cripple (according to H. Ross Perot, a former family friend, that was exactly what happened)



AND... combine that with his questionable judgment/ numerous character flaws:


McCain refers to an entire race of people as "gooks"
McCain calls his current wife a "trollop" and possibly the c-word
McCain is infamous for his hot-blooded temper, not only in the Senate but during his years in the military
One of the reasons why McCain probably supports tax cuts for the wealthy? Because his wife is worth over $100 million
McCain claims to be a man of faith, but he conveniently left the Episcopalian church and became a Baptist right before he announced his plans to run for President... seems odd that a man in his 70s would just up and leave the church he's been attending for decades.
Add into this his constant flip-flops on abortion, gay rights, torture, etc.


I can't wait for the McCain presidency :whatever:

[jaguarr]

that's an understatement.



i kinda hope Clark is Obama's veep now. after all, there are a slew of Vietnam vets that will attest to McCain's behavior as a POW...

vFM1xqqTX_g

Whoa!!!! :eek: My GOD that is damning testimonial!

jag

[jaguarr]

As I've said, forgetfulness appears to run rampant in the McCain household:



McCain can't remember how many houses he owns
Roberta McCain "swears on the Bible" that she didn't sue her son's first wife (she did)
McCain can't remember the times he said he knows nothing about the economy (he said it in 2000, 2007, and 2008)
McCain seems to forget that he left his first wife because she was a cripple (according to H. Ross Perot, a former family friend, that was exactly what happened)

AND... combine that with his questionable judgment/ numerous character flaws:

McCain refers to an entire race of people as "gooks"
McCain calls his current wife a "trollop" and possibly the c-word
McCain is infamous for his hot-blooded temper, not only in the Senate but during his years in the military
One of the reasons why McCain probably supports tax cuts for the wealthy? Because his wife is worth over $100 million
McCain claims to be a man of faith, but he conveniently left the Episcopalian church and became a Baptist right before he announced his plans to run for President... seems odd that a man in his 70s would just up and leave the church he's been attending for decades.
Add into this his constant flip-flops on abortion, gay rights, torture, etc.
I can't wait for the McCain presidency :whatever:

All I know is, anyone so willing to lie about all the little things like John McCain (and his wife) is, is going to have NO problem lying about the big things.

jag

[redfirebird2008]

Apparently Cindy McCain even lied about meeting Mother Theresa. How pathetic is that? LOL.

[The Senator]

Apparently Cindy McCain even lied about meeting Mother Theresa. How pathetic is that? LOL.

Almost as pathetic as Mitt Romney lying about how his father marched alongside Martin Luther King, Jr. during the Civil Rights Movement.

Just think, McCain-Romney could bring us two masters of deception for the price of one...

[redfirebird2008]

Almost as pathetic as Mitt Romney lying about how his father marched alongside Martin Luther King, Jr. during the Civil Rights Movement.

Just think, McCain-Romney could bring us two masters of deception for the price of one...

LOL. Meanwhile, here's Johnny!

http://share.ovi.com/media/thepolitico.public/thepolitico.10064

13-second audio clip of his house gaffe.

[Superman]

Your going to need something more credible than youtube video's by a group calling themselves "The Young Turks" :huh:That's it, Ignore the message, Attack the messenger.:whatever:

[DorkyFresh]

Whoa!!!! :eek: My GOD that is damning testimonial!

jag

i wish things like that would get more attention. if what they say is true then it just proves that McCain is scum. if it turns out false then it will strengthen McCain's military record.

[StorminNorman]

That's it, Ignore the message, Attack the messenger.:whatever:

Considering the fact that if I posted a story about Obama from an obscure Conservative think tape, it wouldn't have any credibility at all - yes, I am not going to waste time with it.

[redfirebird2008]

http://www.mccainvminnesota.com/cribs.html

10 homes. So apparently Obama is lowballing it in that new advertisement. LMFAO!

[StorminNorman]

One of the reasons why McCain probably supports tax cuts for the wealthy? Because his wife is worth over $100 million.

But McCain originally opposed those same tax cuts and only supports the tax cuts because not continuing them results in a tax increase.

[The Senator]

But McCain originally opposed those same tax cuts and only supports the tax cuts because not continuing them results in a tax increase.

Yes, he flip-flopped on taxes, too. Thanks for pointing that out for me :up:

[kainedamo]

Considering the fact that if I posted a story about Obama from an obscure Conservative think tape, it wouldn't have any credibility at all - yes, I am not going to waste time with it.

*ahem*

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/

[StorminNorman]

Yes, he flip-flopped on taxes, too. Thanks for pointing that out for me :up:

Gotta keep it real :up:

[StorminNorman]

*ahem*

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/

Much more like it, though I do not consider them "big" and fairly irrelevant.

[redfirebird2008]

So, which excuse is it gonna be for the house gaffe?

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign" as one of his advisors once said?

Or will it be, "Senator McCain was tired. It was at the end of a long day," etc.?

[StorminNorman]

So, which excuse is it gonna be for the house gaffe?

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign" as one of his advisors once said?

Or will it be, "Senator McCain was tired. It was at the end of a long day," etc.?

They should just leave it alone - its a nothing story that will be forgotten by this time next week.

[kainedamo]

Considering McCain's tax breaks for the rich plans, do you not think it is very relevant?

Here's Obama, a guy being labelled elitist for reasons I don't understand, that has plans to give immediate relief to middle class families. On the other hand is McCain, who doesn't want to tax the rich, who doesn't want to put a figure on what is rich, who wants to give big oil companies tax breaks, and who owns 10 homes worth millions. It all paints the picture that McCain is the real elitist.

[redfirebird2008]

It's relevant because McCain and his advisors think average Americans are whiners for complaining about the housing market and the economy in general, meanwhile McCain has been an aristocrat his entire life...even before he married Cindy (ahem, son and grandson of two admirals in the Navy). And now he's got at least 10 homes with Cindy. And he can't even remember how many he has? WTF does that say about him?

[DorkyFresh]

*slow clap for kainedamo*

[StorminNorman]

Considering McCain's tax breaks for the rich plans, do you not think it is very relevant?

No - because its not McCain's Tax Break. McCain did not support these tax cuts, however they are implemented and to reverse them would RAISE TAXES which goes against McCain's fundamental beliefs.

So yes, I do not think it is very relevant.

Plus, McCain's difficulty here has nothing to do with counting the number of residences he has - but houses he owns. As in real estate. Its not like he has too many mansions he can't keep count - he owns houses (condos) he rents and sells and what not.

Here's Obama, a guy being labelled elitist for reasons I don't understand, that has plans to give immediate relief to middle class families. On the other hand is McCain, who doesn't want to tax the rich, who doesn't want to put a figure on what is rich, who wants to give big oil companies tax breaks, and who owns 10 homes worth millions. It all paints the picture that McCain is the real elitist.

Obama plans to give immediate relief to the middle class, yes - he then plans to take back that same relief and more by raising taxes on other items. His idea to fix the energy crisis? Raise taxes on oil companies! That means that oil companies raise their prices and BOOM - the middle class and poor are punished.

Want to raise taxes on the rich? Then you increase costs on small business owners which means they have less money to employ people and BOOM - the middle class and poor are punished.

Again - the rich DID NOTHING WRONG, they should not be punished for being wealthy. They earned their money, they should keep it. Thats the principal I have for the rich, the middle class and the poor alike. Obama's idea that the rich should be punished is silly.

[Superman4ever]

Considering the fact that if I posted a story about Obama from an obscure Conservative think tape, it wouldn't have any credibility at all - yes, I am not going to waste time with it.

Ugh, I posted a link by the Christian Science Monitor right after your initial post reaffirming the message from the video, and you're still "not wasting time with it". ;)

[StorminNorman]

It's relevant because McCain and his advisors think average Americans are whiners for complaining about the housing market and the economy in general, meanwhile McCain has been an aristocrat his entire life...even before he married Cindy (ahem, son and grandson of two admirals in the Navy). And now he's got at least 10 homes with Cindy. And he can't even remember how many he has? WTF does that say about him?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't McCain criticize the adviser that called America a nation of whiners?

[StorminNorman]

Ugh, I posted a link by the Christian Science Monitor right after your initial post reaffirming the message from the video, and you're still "not wasting time with it". ;)

I overlooked that - but Kaine responded by posting (what I assume is) the same article.

Now I wasted my time with that and still find it to be fairly irrelevant.

[Marx]

So now John McCain doesn't remember how many houses he owns? Add that onto everything else he has said, done, and forgotten...can somebody please tell me why in the h*** these polls are even remotely close????

[StorminNorman]

So now John McCain doesn't remember how many houses he owns? Add that onto everything else he has said, done, and forgotten...can somebody please tell me why in the h*** these polls are even remotely close????

Because - scary as it is - he is the lesser evil. :lmao:

[kainedamo]

I overlooked that - but Kaine responded by posting (what I assume is) the same article.

Now I wasted my time with that and still find it to be fairly irrelevant.

Cindy McCain's lies are irrelevant, John's elitism is irrelevant, his association with G. Gordon Liddy is irrelevant... is there anything negative about McCain that is relevant? Irrelevant seems to be a favoured word of yours. What about his apparent view on the draft?

[Marx]

Because - scary as it is - he is the lesser evil. :lmao:

That's pretty scary Norm.

[Superman4ever]

I overlooked that - but Kaine responded by posting (what I assume is) the same article.

Now I wasted my time with that and still find it to be fairly irrelevant.

Yeah I just saw that, and to call the CSM "irrelevant" is ludicrous. That's like calling Helen Thomas a hack (because she ACTUALLY asks the hard questions), which some of hardliner right-wingers are doing now.

I guess this just reaffirms it: Right-wing + Real Journalism = No likey.

[StorminNorman]

Yeah I just saw that, and to call the CSM "irrelevant" is ludicrous. That's like calling Helen Thomas a hack (because she ACTUALLY asks the hard questions), which some of hardliner right-wingers are doing now.

I guess this just reaffirms it: Right-wing + Real Journalism = No likey.

*sigh* I didn't call CSM irrelevant. I called the story fairly irrelevant - to me at least.

Again - painting me as Right-Wing is also a mistake.

[jaguarr]

Because - scary as it is - he is the lesser evil. :lmao:

I totally disagree. McCain scares me infinitely more than Obama does.

jag

[DorkyFresh]

Again - painting me as Right-Wing is also a mistake.

if it looks like a duck...



...you don't want to be painted as Right-Winger? then don't post like an elephant.

[The Senator]

I think McCain is trying to use his forgetfulness to channel Reagan. After all, Reagan had Alzheimer's and he is considered to be the Republican demigod. Maybe McCain thinks it will work for him too? :huh:

[jaguarr]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't McCain criticize the adviser that called America a nation of whiners?

I don't know if he did, but if Obama's detractors can be so hellbent on bringing up Wright over and over again, even after Obama criticized his comments and denounced him, then continuing to bring up this jackass Gramm for McCain seems like fair game to me for McCain's detractors.

jag

[StorminNorman]

Cindy McCain's lies are irrelevant, John's elitism is irrelevant, his association with G. Gordon Liddy is irrelevant... is there anything negative about McCain that is relevant? Irrelevant seems to be a favoured word of yours. What about his apparent view on the draft?
I consider a lot of the "negatives" on Obama irrelevant - including his vote on the abortion bill, the fact his middle name is Hussein, the flag pin, the flag saluting, the 57 states, etc.

I find Michelle Obama's lack of patriotism more troubling than some misstatements. Elitism isn't a life style - its an attitude and I haven't seen any real elitist attitude from McCain in all honesty. My favorite President is Nixon - so me not caring about Liddy isn't a shocker.

[SuBe]

if it looks like a duck...



...you don't want to be painted as Right-Winger? then don't post like an elephant.
Storm, like me, is a Libertarian. Which means not Left or Right.

[jaguarr]

I think McCain is trying to use his forgetfulness to channel Reagan. After all, Reagan had Alzheimer's and he is considered to be the Republican demigod. Maybe McCain thinks it will work for him too? :huh:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you KNOW Reagan is in Hell going "Tell McCain to quit talking about me!!!!". :funny:

jag

[StorminNorman]

if it looks like a duck...



...you don't want to be painted as Right-Winger? then don't post like an elephant.

Want me to talk about gay marriage, abortion rights, legalization of drugs, religion in general, etc. etc. etc.?

I do not post as a "Republican" because I am a right winger, but because of the two parties its the closest to my views.

[StorminNorman]

I don't know if he did, but if Obama's detractors can be so hellbent on bringing up Wright over and over again, even after Obama criticized his comments and denounced him, then continuing to bring up this jackass Gramm for McCain seems like fair game to me for McCain's detractors.

jag

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080711/POLITICS01/807110375

Of course you can criticize McCain for his association with Gramm - but to say HE CALLED AMERICA a nation of whiners would be like saying Obama was personally responsible for bombing various American sites. Something no one here has certainly done.

[jaguarr]

Dorky, Norman is, for the most part, one of the more fair and level-headed conservative posters on these boards. I rarely agree with him on much in terms of politics, but I do respect his opinion and ability to try to stick to the facts and not get sucked into the hype and slander that both candidates sling around (most of the time, anyway).

jag

[Marx]

if it looks like a duck...



...you don't want to be painted as Right-Winger? then don't post like an elephant.

I wouldn't have agreed to run with Norm in the HYPE Presidential election if he were a "right-winger". Painting him as such, is a gross mischaracterization.

[jaguarr]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080711/POLITICS01/807110375

Of course you can criticize McCain for his association with Gramm - but to say HE CALLED AMERICA a nation of whiners would be like saying Obama was personally responsible for bombing various American sites. Something no one here has certainly done.

But Gramm has been one of McCain's key economic advisors, Norman! How can we be sure he hasn't tainted and affected McCain's perception of the economy negatively and permanently? And Gramm absolutely DID call America a nation of whiners who's economic problems were all mental.

jag

[StorminNorman]

Dorky, Norman is, for the most part, one of the more fair and level-headed conservative posters on these boards. I rarely agree with him on much in terms of politics, but I do respect his opinion and ability to try to stick to the facts and not get sucked into the hype and slander that both candidates sling around (most of the time, anyway).

jag
:heart:

[StorminNorman]

But Gramm has been one of McCain's key economic advisors, Norman! How can we be sure he hasn't tainted and affected McCain's perception of the economy negatively and permanently?

jag

John McCain doesn't care about poo' people :csad:

[redfirebird2008]

I consider a lot of the "negatives" on Obama irrelevant - including his vote on the abortion bill, the fact his middle name is Hussein, the flag pin, the flag saluting, the 57 states, etc.

I find Michelle Obama's lack of patriotism more troubling than some misstatements. Elitism isn't a life style - its an attitude and I haven't seen any real elitist attitude from McCain in all honesty. My favorite President is Nixon - so me not caring about Liddy isn't a shocker.

You should ask McCain's neighbors in Arizona if he's an elitist. From what I've read, he treats them like dirt.

[jaguarr]

John McCain doesn't care about poo' people :csad:


True. And if you make less than $5M a year, you are poo', as far as he's concerned. :D

jag

[The Senator]

I'm really sick of this "elitist" label being tossed around by both sides.

Apparently, Obama is an elitist because he went to Harvard and worked as a lawyer and somehow "lost touch" of the roots he had growing up in poverty... never mind the fact that he has worked, consistently, to better the lives of lower-class individuals in both his careers before and after he took elected office. No, he's an elitist because he talks with big fancy words and comes up with new ideas rather than the same nonsense which has been tried again and again but doesn't seem to work for this country. God forbid we have a President who is educated and doesn't act like he's simple country folk who grew up in dem dar small towns all 'cross da U.S. of A.

Also, McCain isn't an elitist, either. He spent several years in the military, became known as a renegade throughout the majority of his tenure in elected office, and has worked on issues which matter for every American. Campaign finance reform, illegal immigration, opposing the GOP on issues which define their "base"... that isn't elitism at all, as far as I'm concerned.

Shades of elitism may brush both campaigns from time to time, but none of them are true elitists. Neither of them look down on the people they are running to represent, neither of them act as if they're better than everyone else in this country (except for the opposite political parties). A person's career or the way he talks or the amount of money he has is not an accurate reflection of elitism. And I really detest that label now, because it is inaccurate and just another term being thrown around to make people afraid of something which doesn't exist.

[jaguarr]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/21/politics/politico/main4369062.shtml

No Single-term Pledge For McCain
LAS CRUCES, N.M., Aug 21, 2008(The Politico) This story was written by Jonathan Martin and Mike Allen.
John McCain stated unequivocally in an interview with Politico Wednesday that he would not pledge to serve only a single four-year term, rejecting a suggestion that some allies believe would allay questions about his age and underscore his non-partisan message of putting country first.

“No,” McCain said flatly, “I’m not considering it.”

There has been speculation that McCain, 71, could couple a single term promise with a untraditional running mate such as Democrat-turned-Independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman to make the case that he would shove political interests aside and run a consensus-oriented government with the Democratic-held Congress.

McCain did, though, sketch out in a half-hour conversation in this college town not far from the Mexican border what his presidency would look like, drawing implicit contrasts with President Bush in the process. Speaking to Politico just after finishing a town hall meeting, the Arizona senator vowed closer relations with Congress, a more open dialogue with the American people and a commitment to address some of the thorniest issues facing the country.

But he declined to outwardly criticize Bush and flatly stated that he wouldn’t do anything as president to underscore his difference with the unpopular incumbent.

“I don’t have any need to show that I’m different than President Bush,” McCain said when asked if he’d take any steps after being elected to demonstrate where he’d diverge from his predecessor.

McCain made plain, however, that he would aim to take a far more transparent and consensus-oriented approach than Bush, whose promise to be a uniter, not a divider, was unfulfilled.

“First thing I’d do [as president] is to go to see the Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader of the Senate - I assume that that would be Sen. Reid, I hope not, but I think that’s probably the reality of this election - and I would say let’s have an agenda, let’s work together, we know what the solutions are and we know what the options are - Social Security, on restraining spending, on Medicare, on all of these, energy independence, on all of these issues,” McCain said when asked how his approach to governance and politics would differ from Bush.

He promised he’d give the Democratic leaders “all the credit” and cast the bipartisanship as a win-win for all parties.

“Let’s show the American people…that there are opportunities for us to work together for the good of the country,” McCain said. “And I think that they would benefit as much or more as I would.”

McCain added: “I’m not being elected dictator - I’m being elected president. And you have to work with Congress. And they know the priorities as well as I do.”

As for those priorities, and specifically what the two parties could accomplish together in the first 100 days of a McCain presidency, he touched on spending cuts and entitlement reform before talking in more general terms.
After the interview, his traveling press secretary sent an email message clarifying what the Republican’s goals would be after being sworn in.

"Senator McCain's priorities during the first 100 days of his administration include ensuring a safe and secure nation, implementing a plan of action to get the economy moving, and reforming Social Security and Medicare for the sake of future generations,” said Brooke Buchanan.

McCain made no specific mention of the economy in his initial answer, only speaking of making “the country safer both from domestic and foreign challenges.”

Discussing the public image of his prospective administration, McCain promised to take a series of extraordinary steps to increase his access to citizens.

He said he’d do “Question Time” along the sme lines of the British Prime Minister’s regular appearances before Parliament in the House or Senate chamber “once every couple weeks.”

Further, he reiterated a campaign pledge he made during the primary to hold weekly press conferences and expanded upon that proposal.
McCain said he’d take to C-SPAN “all the time” to offer “a full and complete explanation of what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.”

It was something that would have been valuable in recent years, he noted.

“During the war in Iraq, once the surge started anyway, if I’d have been president, I would have gone on C-SPAN once a week,” McCain noted. “I’d say, ‘Here’s Iraq, now here’s what’s happening, here’s why Basra is so dangerous, here’s what’s going on in Ramadi.”

McCain has, however, severely limited access to reporters during this election campaign - a radical shift from his freewheeling, anything-goes approach to media relations in his 2000 presidential run and during the primary earlier this year.

Reminded that he had remarked unfavorably this year about the sort of guarded and on-message approach that he’s now taking - deriding as 'unfun' a campaign in which he was sequestered from the press behind a curtain on an airplane - McCain was tight-lipped.

“We’ll continue to try to get more access to the media,” he said, tightly.

As for where the “old McCain” was, the senator hinted that he preferred being competitive to offering the sort of open exposure that delights reporters but often drowns out the campaign’s preferred message of the day and can also lead to embarrassing gaffes.

“I think there’s a lot of excitement, particularly in the last couple of weeks as we’ve come up in the polls,” he said, reminding that “the object of it is winning.”

McCain also suggested that, had Obama taken him up on his proposal to hold joint town halls, the increasingly negative contest would have been more high-minded and journalists would not be frustrated with the well-packaged campaigns.

“You would have, as the media, been happier because you’d have seen us together,” McCain said. “And when you’re standing on a stage with somebody, this is my political experience, it’s hard to be quite as tough on them when you’re looking them in the eye. It’s when one of your surrogates is out there, et cetera.”

jag

[StorminNorman]

That's a mistake by McCain, IMO.

[redfirebird2008]

That's a mistake by McCain, IMO.

Why?

[Marx]

Welcome back to the political forums Firebird! :yay:

[StorminNorman]

Why?

Because the he is ancient as is. I honestly don't see him living through four years, if he does he won't live through eight.

If McCain pulled out the one term card - I think he would of won this election by 10 points.

[redfirebird2008]

Welcome back to the political forums Firebird! :yay:

Thanks! Good to be back. :woot:

JMan, it appears the Cindy McCain/Mother Theresa lie is even worse than first thought. Not only did the McCains lie about Cindy allegedly meeting Mother Theresa, they also claimed the meeting with Mother Theresa was the reason they adopted their daughter:

http://www.americablog.com/2008/08/mccain-lied-about-his-wife-cindy.html

[DorkyFresh]

Storm, like me, is a Libertarian. Which means not Left or Right.

Dorky, Norman is, for the most part, one of the more fair and level-headed conservative posters on these boards. I rarely agree with him on much in terms of politics, but I do respect his opinion and ability to try to stick to the facts and not get sucked into the hype and slander that both candidates sling around (most of the time, anyway).

jag

I wouldn't have agreed to run with Norm in the HYPE Presidential election if he were a "right-winger". Painting him as such, is a gross mischaracterization.

Want me to talk about gay marriage, abortion rights, legalization of drugs, religion in general, etc. etc. etc.?

I do not post as a "Republican" because I am a right winger, but because of the two parties its the closest to my views.

thank you for the clarification but it's easy to think that way when all i ever see is you attacking Obama while defending McCain. after all, i've been accused many a time of being a lefty even though i'm not very enthusiastic about Obama....i just despise McCain.

admittedly, i have not made it a priority to seek out all of your points of views, however, it's pretty clear that you lean right. i'm not saying that you ARE a Republican (i've seen enough of your other stances to know you're not), but that is the vibe that i often get from you. so once again...not saying that you ARE a Republican, but if it's important to you that you not be viewed by others as a right-winger then you might not want to make posts that could be seen that way.

sorry for the misunderstanding and getting off topic.

[SuBe]

Because the he is ancient as is. I honestly don't see him living through four years, if he does he won't live through eight.

If McCain pulled out the one term card - I think he would of won this election by 10 points.
I don't think he wants to limit himself to one term. What if he gets elected and the Economy swoops up, Gas prices fall to record lows, the Job is done in Iraq, and his Approval Rating is a 99%? He wouldn't want to leave.

He didn't rule out a single term, just not saying it is definate.

[rdh007]

Because the he is ancient as is. I honestly don't see him living through four years, if he does he won't live through eight.

If McCain pulled out the one term card - I think he would of won this election by 10 points.
While I generally agree that it might have gotten him more votes, I also wonder if he wasn't told to say no because it would remind people that he is, in fact, old.

[StorminNorman]

I don't think he wants to limit himself to one term. What if he gets elected and the Economy swoops up, Gas prices fall to record lows, the Job is done in Iraq, and his Approval Rating is a 99%? He wouldn't want to leave.

He didn't rule out a single term, just not saying it is definate.

If he does that he SHOULD away because its not going to stay that way and he would go in the books as one of the greatest POTUS of all time.

And if he still wanted to be President - he should stage it so that he plans on leaving, but at the overwhelming request of the American people, he stays in.

[rdh007]

If he does that he SHOULD away because its not going to stay that way and he would go in the books as one of the greatest POTUS of all time.

And if he still wanted to be President - he should stage it so that he plans on leaving, but at the overwhelming request of the American people, he stays in.

But that last part runs the risk of coming off a little like Giuliani wanting to stay on as Mayor at a time when most people would've been alright with it. (Minus the anti-democratic ideal behind it)

[StorminNorman]

thank you for the clarification but it's easy to think that way when all i ever see is you attacking Obama while defending McCain. after all, i've been accused many a time of being a lefty even though i'm not very enthusiastic about Obama....i just despise McCain.

admittedly, i have not made it a priority to seek out all of your points of views, however, it's pretty clear that you lean right. i'm not saying that you ARE a Republican (i've seen enough of your other stances to know you're not), but that is the vibe that i often get from you. so once again...not saying that you ARE a Republican, but if it's important to you that you not be viewed by others as a right-winger then you might not want to make posts that could be seen that way.

sorry for the misunderstanding and getting off topic.

I do not attack Obama because he is a Democrat - but because I fundamentally disagree vehemently with his policies and ideology. I have had no problem praising Democrats - I have said several times that I think posters like Marx, jman and Matt are some of the best posters on this board. I frequently attack Republican party as a whole. My most frequent "defense" of the Republican party is saying that they are as bad as the Democrat party.

I am not "offended" by being called a Republican or even right-wing any more than I would be offended if someone said I was Irish, Muslim or Black. I do not find "Republican" or "Right Wing" to necessarily be a bad term, simply incorrect in regards to me.

[StorminNorman]

But that last part runs the risk of coming off a little like Giuliani wanting to stay on as Mayor at a time when most people would've been alright with it. (Minus the anti-democratic ideal behind it)

Well considering the only downside WAS the anti-democratic ideal, I don't see how that's a bad thing. :huh:

[rdh007]

Because I think in the end, it'd still come off bad. History would judge him more favorably if he left after one term even if he came back for another as a result of overwhelming support. As you pointed out, it's not going to stay that way and he'd be blamed by some if things fell apart after the next four years. I think at some point in a second four year term, his approval would plummet (as I believe often happens even to popular presidents).

[Marx]

FEC allows McCain to withdraw from primary matching funds program
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/21/fec-allows-mccain-to-withdraw-from-primary-matching-funds-program/

[The Chairman]

I find Michelle Obama's lack of patriotism more troubling than some misstatements.

:whatever:

I need to vent my feelings on this subject once and for all.

Michelle Obama said, "For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country."

Now, Michelle Obama was born in 1964, which emans she technically became an adult in 1982. Since 1982, aside from maybe the Gulf War conflict and our initial takedown of the Taliban (whose victory has since been tainted by our deviation to Iraq), what has really happened in America to make us proud of it the way the Civil Rights Act or women winning the right to vote did?

People point to the end of The Cold War and pin it on Reagan when in fact the Soviet Union was going to collapse regardless of who was president. Bush and Clinton were a mixed bag who accomplished some minor successes but were also marred by the failing of the economy (well, Bush was, Clinto kept it strong) and in Clinton's case, a series of damaging personal scandals. I won't get into Bush Sr. except to say he has been an overwhelming disaster for the most part.

And before you pull the 9 / 11 card, consider this. 9 / 11 was a good time to be proud to be an American, but I'm not sure if anyone with a decent knowledge of the then current political climate would be proud of America, considering the country A) had been thumbing its nose in Middle Eastern business when we didn't belong for years and B) our country had prior knowledge that an attack was likely to happen. Had I had the proper thought capacity and knowledge of the political scene when it happened, I probably would not have been to happy about the way my government,

And before I'm deemed unpatriotic by anyone, I would like to point out that I love my country and what it's supposed to stand for, but I'm also highly critical of it. Patriotism is more than just a lapel pin or waving a flag outside your door or singing a song. It is, to me, being keenly aware of your country's issues and having the balls to bring them to other people's attention regardless of how harsh you have to be to expose them. If people who criticize the war or president are deemed unpatriotic and are ignored and stifled and are told to just pretend to be proud and supportive, than we begin to lose our democracy. The last seven years have been especially detremental to the vision of our Founding Fathers.

Lastly, I suggest you read The Audacity Of Hope. In it, Obama recalls their trip to Africa. In it, he writes that the first thing Michelle said when she returned was that being in Africa made her so thankful and proud to be an American and to have the freedoms she had. How's that for unpatriotic.

[StorminNorman]

:whatever:

I need to vent my feelings on this subject once and for all.

Michelle Obama said, "For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country."

Now, Michelle Obama was born in 1964, which emans she technically became an adult in 1982. Since 1982, aside from maybe the Gulf War conflict and our initial takedown of the Taliban (whose victory has since been tainted by our deviation to Iraq), what has really happened in America to make us proud of it the way the Civil Rights Act or women winning the right to vote did?

People point to the end of The Cold War and pin it on Reagan when in fact the Soviet Union was going to collapse regardless of who was president. Bush and Clinton were a mixed bag who accomplished some minor successes but were also marred by the failing of the economy (well, Bush was, Clinto kept it strong) and in Clinton's case, a series of damaging personal scandals. I won't get into Bush Sr. except to say he has been an overwhelming disaster for the most part.

And before you pull the 9 / 11 card, consider this. 9 / 11 was a good time to be proud to be an American, but I'm not sure if anyone with a decent knowledge of the then current political climate would be proud of America, considering the country A) had been thumbing its nose in Middle Eastern business when we didn't belong for years and B) our country had prior knowledge that an attack was likely to happen. Had I had the proper thought capacity and knowledge of the political scene when it happened, I probably would not have been to happy about the way my government,

And before I'm deemed unpatriotic by anyone, I would like to point out that I love my country and what it's supposed to stand for, but I'm also highly critical of it. Patriotism is more than just a lapel pin or waving a flag outside your door or singing a song. It is, to me, being keenly aware of your country's issues and having the balls to bring them to other people's attention regardless of how harsh you have to be to expose them. If people who criticize the war or president are deemed unpatriotic and are ignored and stifled and are told to just pretend to be proud and supportive, than we begin to lose our democracy. The last seven years have been especially detremental to the vision of our Founding Fathers.

You mention Kuwait already, you mention the Taliban and the removal of a government that treated women as second class citizens, how about the billions and trillions of dollars America has spent on AIDS and other medicine in Africa? How about the fact that America is the most philanthropic country in the history of the world?

If you are actually going to use the argument that America hasn't done anything to be proud of since 1984, then there is no reason for me to waste time debating the issue. Its a ludicrous claim.

Lastly, I suggest you read The Audacity Of Hope. In it, Obama recalls their trip to Africa. In it, he writes that the first thing Michelle said when she returned was that being in Africa made her so thankful and proud to be an American and to have the freedoms she had. How's that for unpatriotic.

I am going to take the words of Michelle Obama over the words of her husband who wrote a book with the fact he had much higher political aspirations on his mind. Of course Obama is going to whitewash everything he can in that book - as he should.

[The Chairman]

I am going to take the words of Michelle Obama over the words of her husband who wrote a book with the fact he had much higher political aspirations on his mind. Of course Obama is going to whitewash everything he can in that book - as he should.

He wrote it before she even made the claims. I know Barack had high hopes at the time, but I refuse to believe he's sneaky and underhanded enough to exagerrate or make up a quote from his wife just to make them seem more American and this likeable to the people. This you trying to come up with anything you can to undermine Barack. You take one quote from her and act like it defines her whole persona.

Also, I don't think the American government should be funding tax dollars to the aid of other countries. It should be left charity organizations like the Red Cross. The government should only directly fund the people and organizations of its country. Just my point of view.

[kainedamo]

Was it this thread or the Obama thread where Norman was talking about how he didn't like how misstatements were being used?

Yeah - that's exactly what Norman is doing with Michelle Obama.

What is of more concern to me, is that Cindy McCain would lie about meeting Mother Theresa on several occasions. You can't make a misstatement out of that - she lied. Whereas what Michelle said, she's since cleared it up, and it was fairly obvious from the beginning she perhaps didn't choose her words too wisely, its very unlikely she literally meant she's never been proud to be an American.

[kainedamo]

Here's Michelle talking about it on The View.

59twO1fJwtQ

[The Professor]

Oh how I miss my American citizenship!

[StorminNorman]

Was it this thread or the Obama thread where Norman was talking about how he didn't like how misstatements were being used?

Yeah - that's exactly what Norman is doing with Michelle Obama.

What is of more concern to me, is that Cindy McCain would lie about meeting Mother Theresa on several occasions. You can't make a misstatement out of that - she lied. Whereas what Michelle said, she's since cleared it up, and it was fairly obvious from the beginning she perhaps didn't choose her words too wisely, its very unlikely she literally meant she's never been proud to be an American.

The CSM article never said that Cindy McCain never met Mother Theresa - only that Mother Theresa did not personally ask Cindy to adopt two kids. Though the kids WERE adopted from an agency founded by Mother Theresa.

The same article, I believe, mentioned that the McCain may have in fact met Mother Theresa at a later time.

Also - of course Michelle has since cleared it up, that doesn't mean she didn't not mean it at the time. Michelle Obama has been a weak spot for her husband, she doesn't click well with most of America which is why she has been kept more behind the scenes.

[jaguarr]

The CSM article never said that Cindy McCain never met Mother Theresa - only that Mother Theresa did not personally ask Cindy to adopt two kids. Though the kids WERE adopted from an agency founded by Mother Theresa.

The same article, I believe, mentioned that the McCain may have in fact met Mother Theresa at a later time.

Also - of course Michelle has since cleared it up, that doesn't mean she didn't not mean it at the time. Michelle Obama has been a weak spot for her husband, she doesn't click well with most of America which is why she has been kept more behind the scenes.

As opposed to trotting her out front and center to call her a trollop and a "c**t"? :hehe:

jag

[StorminNorman]

From Drudge:


MCCAIN OFFICE IN DENVER RECEIVES ENVELOPE WITH WHITE POWDER AND DEATH THREAT... DEVELOPING...

[kainedamo]

Or offering her up to a bunch of drooling bikers at a biker rally.

[The Chairman]

Also - of course Michelle has since cleared it up, that doesn't mean she didn't not mean it at the time. Michelle Obama has been a weak spot for her husband, she doesn't click well with most of America which is why she has been kept more behind the scenes.

Again, read Obama's book. Obama started writing it just before he became a senator. He was just barely a big name thanks to his keynote speach. He had just moved up from being a blip on the political radar. He had nor eason to fabricate or outright make up quotes from his wife.

[jaguarr]

From Drudge:


MCCAIN OFFICE IN DENVER RECEIVES ENVELOPE WITH WHITE POWDER AND DEATH THREAT... DEVELOPING...

Truly not cool if it's true.

jag

[jaguarr]

Or offering her up to a bunch of drooling bikers at a biker rally.

I wish he'd followed through and entered her in the wet t-shirt contest like he said he would. :o

jag

[The Professor]

I'm voting Labor anyhow.

[The Chairman]

From Drudge:


MCCAIN OFFICE IN DENVER RECEIVES ENVELOPE WITH WHITE POWDER AND DEATH THREAT... DEVELOPING...

Whoa boy, not cool. I hope it's either false or that the guy invovled is caught before anything happens.

[Marx]

From Drudge:


MCCAIN OFFICE IN DENVER RECEIVES ENVELOPE WITH WHITE POWDER AND DEATH THREAT... DEVELOPING...

I sincerely hope that's not true. There is becoming too many 'situations' at the campaign headquarters...on both sides of the aisle.

[Marx]

McCain turns Bush on Iraq war surge
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/21/mccain-turns-bush-on-iraq-war-surge/


*Mr. McCain sent a private letter to Mr. Bush on Dec. 12, 2006, that challenged the president to show the "will" to win the Iraq war by deploying 20,000 troops into Baghdad and the Sunni Triangle to beat back a growing insurgency.*

[StorminNorman]

I sincerely hope that's not true. There is becoming too many 'situations' at the campaign headquarters...on both sides of the aisle.

It has been confirmed by the McCain campaign.

[Marx]

It has been confirmed by the McCain campaign.

Ugh. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon13.gif

[Spider-Bite]

although this is horrible either way, I hope it's terrorist related and not the work of an angry leftist.

You guys remember that conservative who shot up the liberal church because he hated liberals and gays?

[Marx]

although this is horrible either way, I hope it's terrorist related and not the work of an angry leftist.

You guys remember that conservative who shot up the liberal church because he hated liberals and gays?

An angry liberal is no different from an angry conservative. Any person (regardless of party) who participates in an action such as this is a terrorist.

[The Senator]

although this is horrible either way, I hope it's terrorist related and not the work of an angry leftist.

You guys remember that conservative who shot up the liberal church because he hated liberals and gays?

I would actually prefer it be a hardcore conservative who is against McCain's views on some of the "values" issues....

[The Chairman]

An angry liberal is no different from an angry conservative. Any person (regardless of party) who participates in an action such as this is a terrorist.

Exactly.

The criminal's political ideologies are not important.

[StorminNorman]

I would actually prefer it be a hardcore conservative who is against McCain's views on some of the "values" issues....
If I was working for McCain - I wouldn't mind that either.

[StorminNorman]

White Powder Has Been Found At Another McCain Headquarters.

[kainedamo]

Ugh, what idiot is behind this.

If its someone on the left, don't the morons realize they'd just rally more people around McCain?

[The Chairman]

White Powder Has Been Found At Another McCain Headquarters.

Wow, this is scary. :eek:

[Marx]

White Powder Has Been Found At Another McCain Headquarters.

Oh no...please tell me that you're kidding.

[kainedamo]

Oh man, I can see this adding fuel to the fire of people that believe Obama is connected to terrorists.

[StorminNorman]

Oh man, I can see this adding fuel to the fire of people that believe Obama is connected to terrorists.

I love how this is one of your first thoughts. :o

[StorminNorman]

Oh no...please tell me that you're kidding.

Manchester, New Hampshire Office. 45 Min ago.

[The Chairman]

I love how this is one of your first thoughts. :o

While it's somewhat insensitive, he's probably not off the mark.

[redfirebird2008]

While it's somewhat insensitive, he's probably not off the mark.

He's not far off the mark. I live and work in Midland, Texas and the amount of paranoia surrounding Obama is pretty surprising. Co-workers constantly bring up debunked smears as proof of why he's dangerous.

[Spider-Bite]

An angry liberal is no different from an angry conservative. Any person (regardless of party) who participates in an action such as this is a terrorist.
I agree. I just hope this person isn't an angry liberal or an angry conservative, because I don't want more hatred dividing the country like that. Pundits do use this stuff. I remember OReily going on about how it's the angry left who is dangerous, and that is why two gay liberals defacated some Jesus thing at some church.

I don't want liberals having examples like that guy who shot up the church, and I don't want conseravtives having examples like those guys pooping on that Jesus thingy display.

[Marx]

Manchester, New Hampshire Office. 45 Min ago.

I wonder if there are anymore... :huh:

[Spider-Bite]

okay gotta go watch the news

[Marx]

I agree. I just hope this person isn't an angry liberal or an angry conservative, because I don't want more hatred dividing the country like that. Pundits do use this stuff. I remember OReily going on about how it's the angry left who is dangerous, and that is why two gay liberals defacated some Jesus thing at some church.

I don't want liberals having examples like that guy who shot up the church, and I don't want conseravtives having examples like those guys pooping on that Jesus thingy display.

As I said, it doesn't matter what their political views are, the fact remains that whoever it is has committed an act of terror. Making them a terrorist.

The person who shot and killed a Democratic Chairman in Arkansas is guilty of the same thing.

[kainedamo]

Are there any news clips about this online?

[StorminNorman]

There are a few - but none of them include any more info.

All that is known now is that these two letters full of white powder and death threats were found at these two locations. The headquarters have been evacuated, staff are at the hospital for observation.

[StorminNorman]

No indication if the threats were made against the Senator personally or Staff.

[StorminNorman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_office_threat

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/21/politics/main4372096.shtml

Links.

[redfirebird2008]

Hopefully they catch the jerk(s) responsible for this.

[Marx]

There are a few - but none of them include any more info.

All that is known now is that these two letters full of white powder and death threats were found at these two locations. The headquarters have been evacuated, staff are at the hospital for observation.

No indication if the threats were made against the Senator personally or Staff.

Let's hope the authorities find whoever is responsible for this...and that all of those at the campaign headquarters remain ok.

[Doug]

McCain could be the Bush that Bush said he was going to be

[redfirebird2008]

McCain could be the Bush that Bush said he was going to be

Not when Johnny Mac is busy flip-flopping every couple of days on practically every issue.

[jaguarr]

I would actually prefer it be a hardcore conservative who is against McCain's views on some of the "values" issues....

I've become so jaded that this afternoon it struck me that someone connected to McCain's campaign could have done this as a way to play the "victim" card and to be able to point to it and say "Terrorists are still trying to get us! We need a man with real military experience to handle them! A man like John McCain! And the terrorists know it, that's why they sent these threats!". And it seemed not entirely out of the realm of possibility when I thought of it, too. It'd be very Rovian.

jag

[Marx]

I've become so jaded that this afternoon it struck me that someone connected to McCain's campaign could have done this as a way to play the "victim" card and to be able to point to it and say "Terrorists are still trying to get us! We need a man with real military experience to handle them! A man like John McCain! And the terrorists know it, that's why they sent these threats!". And it seemed not entirely out of the realm of possibility when I thought of it, too. It'd be very Rovian.

jag

As much as I hate to admit it, the conspiracy theorist in me has already thrown that thought around.

[Doug]

Not when Johnny Mac is busy flip-flopping every couple of days on practically every issue.

Dude.. he is a Senator... that is going to happen with any Senator..(Except Paul), thats why a Governor is such a better pick.

It is also not a bad thing to change your mind and stance everynow and then...

[redfirebird2008]

As much as I hate to admit it, the conspiracy theorist in me has already thrown that thought around.

Yeah, and ramping up things with Russia seems convenient to me.

[Kelly]

Yeah, I think Russia invading Georgia was so that McCain would be elected.............


yep.................

[Midnyte_Sun]

Anybody else get that email about McCains mansions? Holy crapper, this guy is filthy rich.

[redfirebird2008]

Dude.. he is a Senator... that is going to happen with any Senator..(Except Paul), thats why a Governor is such a better pick.

It is also not a bad thing to change your mind and stance everynow and then...

Dude, he changed his mind on abortion in a matter of a few days. At the religious forum recently, he gave a 100% right wing answer. And just a few days later his campaign was backpedaling and moving more to the center on that issue. He has flip-flopped on torture within this campaign, from the beginning of the primaries to the beginning of the general election campaign. He's a triangulator to the extreme. Didn't Bush promise to be a consistent conservative while in office? Well, McCain has never shown consistency in his positions throughout his career, so I would not expect him to suddenly become consistent in office.

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah, I think Russia invading Georgia was so that McCain would be elected.............


yep.................

No, I mean the missile defense thing in Poland.

[Kelly]

No, I mean the missile defense thing in Poland.


Yep, Poland wanting to speed up that process because Russia just invaded a former Soviet Republic......and they could be next (in their mind).......yeah............that is a part of it as well.

[redfirebird2008]

Yep, Poland wanting to speed up that process because Russia just invaded a former Soviet Republic......and they could be next (in their mind).......yeah............that is a part of it as well.

You do realize Georgia itself is on the wrong side of that issue right? Jingoism against the big bad Russians will not change the fact that the Georgian government was treating that region like crap. Poland has nothing to do with it and it's not about Russian imperialism.

[redfirebird2008]

And don't get me wrong. I can't stand the Russians. Hate Putin and don't trust him or his current puppet President. In the case of Georgia, however, it's not as simple as Russian imperialism.

[Doug]

Dude, he changed his mind on abortion in a matter of a few days. At the religious forum recently, he gave a 100% right wing answer. And just a few days later his campaign was backpedaling and moving more to the center on that issue. He has flip-flopped on torture within this campaign, from the beginning of the primaries to the beginning of the general election campaign. He's a triangulator to the extreme. Didn't Bush promise to be a consistent conservative while in office? Well, McCain has never shown consistency in his positions throughout his career, so I would not expect him to suddenly become consistent in office.

I thought Mac has always been pro-life...
Mac is a right winger except for some issues
Torture... I never thought he was for torture, especially because he was tortured..

Bush said that he would be conserve the spending.. he of course did not..
McCain said that he wants to stop pork barrel spending which would stop a hell of a lot of spending.. thats what I was referring too and I am stupid for not explaining that.. message boards have trouble reading my mind...
my dog has no problems reading it though

[jaguarr]

And don't get me wrong. I can't stand the Russians. Hate Putin and don't trust him or his current puppet President. In the case of Georgia, however, it's not as simple as Russian imperialism.

Okay, comrade. :hehe:

jag

[The Senator]

I've become so jaded that this afternoon it struck me that someone connected to McCain's campaign could have done this as a way to play the "victim" card and to be able to point to it and say "Terrorists are still trying to get us! We need a man with real military experience to handle them! A man like John McCain! And the terrorists know it, that's why they sent these threats!". And it seemed not entirely out of the realm of possibility when I thought of it, too. It'd be very Rovian.

jag

Yeah, I've considered that to be a possible scenario as well. However, the idealist in me hopes that this isn't the case.

[The Senator]

Torture... I never thought he was for torture, especially because he was tortured..

Maybe he's a masochist :huh:

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah, I've considered that to be a possible scenario as well. However, the idealist in me hopes that this isn't the case.

Same here. I want to trust that it's just an honest incident, but it's very difficult to not be cynical. Regardless, I hope they catch the perpetrator, whoever it may be.

[redfirebird2008]

According to Mark Halperin of Time Magazine, a couple of Republican sources are telling him that McCain has decided on Mitt Romney as his running mate.

http://thepage.time.com/

What does everyone think of this? I think it's probably the best choice he could have made in order to avoid pissing off the conservatives.

[Marx]

According to Mark Halperin of Time Magazine, a couple of Republican sources are telling him that McCain has decided on Mitt Romney as his running mate.

http://thepage.time.com/

What does everyone think of this? I think it's probably the best choice he could have made in order to avoid pissing off the conservatives.

If this is true, I guess we'll have to wait and see how this affects the independent vote.

[The Senator]

According to Mark Halperin of Time Magazine, a couple of Republican sources are telling him that McCain has decided on Mitt Romney as his running mate.

http://thepage.time.com/

What does everyone think of this? I think it's probably the best choice he could have made in order to avoid pissing off the conservatives.

While that may be true with the average conservatives, the hardcore Christofascist wing of the Republican Party will probably be a bit hesitant on Romney considering he's a Mormon.

[redfirebird2008]

While that may be true with the average conservatives, the hardcore Christofascist wing of the Republican Party will probably be a bit hesitant on Romney considering he's a Mormon.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I've got a co-worker who's a southern Baptist, listens to Rush every day, and he told me he wanted Romney instead of McCain. I know there's plenty of prejudice against Romney due to religion, and it's at least partially why he lost the primary, but he will not cause them to stay home in such massive numbers like Lieberman or Ridge would. There will be some who do stay home, but plenty of them will still fall-in-line.

[Superman]

I've become so jaded that this afternoon it struck me that someone connected to McCain's campaign could have done this as a way to play the "victim" card and to be able to point to it and say "Terrorists are still trying to get us! We need a man with real military experience to handle them! A man like John McCain! And the terrorists know it, that's why they sent these threats!". And it seemed not entirely out of the realm of possibility when I thought of it, too. It'd be very Rovian.

jagI'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

8 years ago I would never have thought of such a thing, Even from the Right, But after the crap BushCo and the Neo-Cons have pulled over the past 8 years nothing would surprise me.:csad:

[The Senator]

If Romney is McCain's running mate, then I hope to hell Obama has selected Joe Biden as his. Biden will kick Romney's ass in a debate, especially on foreign policy, and even more so if Romney tries to pull that whole "Democrats support Jihad" bull **** he pulled earlier this year when he withdrew from the race.

[redfirebird2008]

If Romney is McCain's running mate, then I hope to hell Obama has selected Joe Biden as his. Biden will kick Romney's ass in a debate, especially on foreign policy, and even more so if Romney tries to pull that whole "Democrats support Jihad" bull **** he pulled earlier this year when he withdrew from the race.

At this point, these are the 4 I would be happy with:

Biden - always liked him plus he is good at kicking ass against McCain and Bush as we saw earlier this year when Bush used Israel's anniversary as a chance to take a political shot at Obama.

Chris Dodd - again, I've always liked him and he seems like a decent man to me.

Hillary - only she can get those primary Clinton voters on board that currently are holding out plus she adds a ton of excitement to the campaign I feel.

Wes Clark - holy crap would he ever kick McCain's ass...the P.O.W. argument as McCain's strength would be neutralized.

[Superman4ever]

I've become so jaded that this afternoon it struck me that someone connected to McCain's campaign could have done this as a way to play the "victim" card and to be able to point to it and say "Terrorists are still trying to get us! We need a man with real military experience to handle them! A man like John McCain! And the terrorists know it, that's why they sent these threats!". And it seemed not entirely out of the realm of possibility when I thought of it, too. It'd be very Rovian.

jag

That's exactly how I feel. Now, I PRAY that no one gets hurt and that this is all just powdered sugar and a horrible prank, but McCain and his campaign have been lying like hounds (it's actually been VERY demoralizing that our nation has come down to this in just a few years). He's running such a sleazy campaign, I, unfortunately, wouldn't put it beneath McCain or his campaign to pull such a horrible gag (as fear-tactic) on the voting public.

However, if this is "real" I hope they catch this person(s) quick, and G-d willingly, without anyone getting hurt. But I'm having a tough time believing this.

[The Senator]

As much as I despise LOLcats with a mother****ing passion, and often can't stand Daily Kos, I stumbled across Kos and almost fell out of my chair with laughter when I saw this pic:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/Mccain_7_houses.jpg

It's probably not funny at all, but it's 1:33 am and my sense of humor has gone to bed before I have. I think.

[redfirebird2008]

As much as I despise LOLcats with a mother****ing passion, and often can't stand Daily Kos, I stumbled across Kos and almost fell out of my chair with laughter when I saw this pic:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/Mccain_7_houses.jpg

It's probably not funny at all, but it's 1:33 am and my sense of humor has gone to bed before I have. I think.

Don't feel bad. It IS funny. :hehe:

[rdh007]

Maybe McCain wants a threeway?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12711.html

"Making matters more confusing, Politico has learned that McCain will visit suburban St. Louis for a major rally with Romney and his still-bitter primary nemesis Mike Huckabee on Sunday, Aug. 31, the day before the start of the GOP convention."

[StorminNorman]

Sounds like Romney is the man.

Also - **** Huckabee.

[Marx]

Sounds like Romney is the man.

Also - **** Huckabee.

:funny:

[The Senator]

Sounds like Romney is the man.

Also - **** Huckabee.

**** them both, I say. Lock both of them in a cage and drop them into the core of a volcano. That's really what's best for all of us, I think.

[Marx]

**** them both, I say. Lock both of them in a cage and drop them into the core of a volcano. That's really what's best for all of us, I think.

Or we could just have a Political Thunderdome match! Two men enter, one man leave...





(We could always tweak the rules though. :cwink:)

[souvlaki]

Asked what first comes to his mind when he thinks of Pittsburgh, McCain chuckled, “the Steelers. I was a mediocre high school athlete but I loved and adored the sports but the Steelers really made a huge impression on me particularly in my early years.”

And then McCain told a rather moving story about his time as a P.O.W. “When I was first interrogated and really had to give some information because of the pressures, physical pressures on me, I named the starting lineup, defensive line of the Pittsburgh Steelers as my squadron mates.”

“Did you really?” asked the reporter.

“Yes,” McCain said.

“In your POW camp?” asked the reporter.

“Yes,” McCain said.

McCain has always said he told his interrogators the names of the lineman of the Green Bay Packers. But McCain wasn’t campaigning in Wisconsin; he was campaigning in Pittsburgh — so the story “evolved” to include the Steelers. (From a football perspective, the story doesn’t even make sense. The great Steelers defensive line — with names McCain would know — didn’t appear until after McCain returned home. The Steelers were pretty bad when McCain was captured.)

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16172.html





So not only does he bring out yet another POW story, but it changes depending on what state he visits.

[jaguarr]

Steelers.....Packers....what's the diff? :oldrazz:

jag

[souvlaki]

The ironic part about the whole thing is judging from this picture McCain looks like he's never even held a football. He looks like he just accepted an Oscar.

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/08/covers.jpg

[redfirebird2008]

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1800

That pretty much sums up how McCain uses the P.O.W. "issue" any chance he gets. In comparison with homeless vets (some of whom are P.O.W.'s), him using that as an excuse for owning a lot of property and not even knowing how much comes across as a pretty despicable retort on the part of his campaign.

[Spider-Bite]

The ironic part about the whole thing is judging from this picture McCain looks like he's never even held a football. He looks like he just accepted an Oscar.

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/08/covers.jpg

LOL He does

[Matt]

The ironic part about the whole thing is judging from this picture McCain looks like he's never even held a football. He looks like he just accepted an Oscar.

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/08/covers.jpg

:hehe:

Though in all fairness, football did not enjoy the same level of popularity it does now in McCain's day. Baseball was the sport of the day.

[souvlaki]

Apologies if this has been posted, but:


But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.
McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.
Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain’s job offer.
“I’ll take it!” one man shouted.
McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. “You can’t do it, my friends.”
Some in the crowd said they didn’t appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12155322/




So wait... who is the out of touch elitist in this race?

[jaguarr]

:hehe:

Though in all fairness, football did not enjoy the same level of popularity it does now in McCain's day. Baseball was the sport of the day.

Then why did McCain give his VC captors the names of the Packers' defensive line? Or was it the names of a Steelers D-Line that wouldn't exist for several years? I can never remember. :hehe:

For a supposed football fan, McCain looks decidedly uncomfortable and unsure of what to do with that football. :hehe:

jag

[Spider-Bite]

:hehe:

Though in all fairness, football did not enjoy the same level of popularity it does now in McCain's day. Baseball was the sport of the day.
Yeah he uses the same excuse about computers. :oldrazz: I wonder if they had birds back then, or if they were still Dinosaurs.

[Matt]

Apologies if this has been posted, but:


But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.
McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.
Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain’s job offer.
“I’ll take it!” one man shouted.
McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. “You can’t do it, my friends.”
Some in the crowd said they didn’t appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12155322/




So wait... who is the out of touch elitist in this race?

I'm going to vote both candidates since their immigration plans are fairly similar. When we have a five percent unemployment rate, there should not be jobs people do not want. If you are on government aide, unemployment, or welfare, then you should be in the field picking lettuce for a wage until you find a job.

[Matt]

Yeah he uses the same excuse about computers. :oldrazz: I wonder if they had birds back then, or if they were still Dinosaurs.

I think it was at the point where dinosaurs were evolving into birds, so a mixture of both. :cwink:

[souvlaki]

I'm going to vote both candidates since their immigration plans are fairly similar. When we have a five percent unemployment rate, there should not be jobs people do not want. If you are on government aide, unemployment, or welfare, then you should be in the field picking lettuce for a wage until you find a job.

Um... for $50 an hour?

[Spider-Bite]

Apologies if this has been posted, but:


But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.
McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.
Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain’s job offer.
“I’ll take it!” one man shouted.
McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. “You can’t do it, my friends.”
Some in the crowd said they didn’t appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12155322/




So wait... who is the out of touch elitist in this race?

50 dolllars a freaking hour? I'll take it too! Just about anybody that isn't rich would take it.

that does scream ellitist and out of touch with the American people. He sure wasn't lying when he said the economy wasn't his strong suit. To me this along with his other rescent gafts, do show that he is not qualified to be President.

You need a certain understanding of things, and you need to realize how America works. He is showing that he does not have the understanding or knowledge necessary to handle average every day American life, let alone the presidency. It sounds like all he really knows how to do is serve in the military and be rich.

He woudln't last two minutes in our shoes.

[jaguarr]

The word is "gaffe", not "gaft". Please make a note of it.

jag

[Matt]

Um... for $50 an hour?

Obviously not. My point is, when someone is umemployed and has no savings or income, there should not be a job they are too good for.

[souvlaki]

Obviously not. My point is, when someone is umemployed and has no savings or income, there should not be a job they are too good for.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but that wasn't the point of the article I posted.

[Matt]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but that wasn't the point of the article I posted.

I get your point. My point is both candidates are out of touch on this issue.

[souvlaki]

I get your point. My point is both candidates are out of touch on this issue.

Gotcha. I thought you were just glossing over the $50/hour part.

[jaguarr]

I'd pick lettuce for $50/hour. :up:

jag

[redfirebird2008]

McCain is furious at this ad from the Florida Democrats:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7GApHeJTPU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7GApHeJTPU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


They're promising to hit back with Michelle Obama ads. As if they weren't ALREADY going to do that. :whatever: There's already been state Republican ads run focusing on her and Wright to begin with.

[souvlaki]

I'd pick lettuce for $50/hour. :up:

jag

I think most people would.

[Kelly]

I get your point. My point is both candidates are out of touch.....


Fixed....

[Marx]

McCain is furious at this ad from the Florida Democrats:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7GApHeJTPU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7GApHeJTPU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


They're promising to hit back with Michelle Obama ads. As if they weren't ALREADY going to do that. :whatever: There's already been state Republican ads run focusing on her and Wright to begin with.

That's a pretty damaging ad.

[Marx]

Officials: Inmate charged with sending McCain threatening letter
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/22/mccain.letters.inmate/index.html

[redfirebird2008]

That's a pretty damaging ad.

Of course it is. That's why he's pissed. :hehe:

He thought he could keep getting away with taking cheap shots and never get taken to task for some of his ridiculous hypocrisy. Well FINALLY, someone stood up to this crap.

[Kelly]

I don't think its damaging at all......

People I've heard talking at the bar, at school etc......could care less how many houses the man has, or that he knows.......people in Florida could definitely care less considering many of them have more than one house.....and they are probably watching the ad from a vacation home....

IMO, it is one of the worst campaign ads out there, and I'm pretty disappointed in the Obama campaign. They have actually had some pretty good ads so far (FAAAAAAAAAAAR better than some of the ads the McCain campaign has out).....this is not one of them, and I think it will backfire on them in Florida.

I think Biden will probably say that the John McCain he knew of earlier years, is not the John McCain now and that will, hopefully for Biden's sake, take care of the great things he said about McCain early in this campaign.

[kainedamo]

I don't think its damaging at all......

People I've heard talking at the bar, at school etc......could care less how many houses the man has, or that he knows.......people in Florida could definitely care less considering many of them have more than one house.....and they are probably watching the ad from a vacation home....

Obviously, this isn't who the ad is aimed at.

The ad is aimed at middle class and working class who have one home and in some cases may be struggiling. Pointing out that McCain can't even keep track of how many homes he as, pointing out that he was quoted earlier in the year as saying the economy is good, showing his advisor saying its a mental recession, etc, its all very effective.

[Kelly]

Obviously, this isn't who the ad is aimed at.

The ad is aimed at middle class and working class who have one home and in some cases may be struggiling. Pointing out that McCain can't even keep track of how many homes he as, pointing out that he was quoted earlier in the year as saying the economy is good, showing his advisor saying its a mental recession, etc, its all very effective.



Yes, and I t each low to middle class, I work with middle class, I drink beer with all of the above.......we don't give a ****......how many houses the man has.

Look, I don't like McCain, I think he's an old jack ass........but that ad is not going to do anything, on any grounds IMO.

The best thing to do is to allow Biden to hit hard on the fact that "this McCain"....IS NOT....the McCain he knew just a few years ago. THAT, will do more than these dumb ass ads.

[jaguarr]

Yes, and I t each low to middle class, I work with middle class, I drink beer with all of the above.......we don't give a ****......how many houses the man has.

Look, I don't like McCain, I think he's an old jack ass........but that ad is not going to do anything, on any grounds IMO.

The best thing to do is to allow Biden to hit hard on the fact that "this McCain"....IS NOT....the McCain he knew just a few years ago. THAT, will do more than these dumb ass ads.

LOL! As this election wears on, Kel become less teacher and more sailor. By November her entire posts will just be asterisks. :D

jag

[Kelly]

LOL! As this election wears on, Kel become less teacher and more sailor. By November her entire posts will just be asterisks. :D

jag


lmao.....oh no.......................it is a miracle.......................AND I MEAN A MIRACLE........that I don't have asteriks all over my classroom....but somehow I don't. I have a little voice in my head always going off saying....."you can't say that......you love your job" :cwink:

[Marx]

SO John McCain called Joe Biden to congratulate him on being selected as the Democratic nominee...and then pushes a Biden attack ad out to the media shortly thereafter.

Gotta love politics! :whatever:

[StorminNorman]

It wasn't a Biden attack ad - it was a Biden/Obama attack ad.

I think McCain was simply stating that he agreed with Senator Biden and his thoughts about Obama ;)

[Marx]

It wasn't a Biden attack ad - it was a Biden/Obama attack ad.

I think McCain was simply stating that he agreed with Senator Biden and his thoughts about Obama ;)

...then I can't wait until John McCain picks Mitt Romney as his VP! http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Cosmic]

Wow. He really is holding that football like a trophy. I get the feeling, watching McCain in the media, that he doesn't have good support next to him. Someone there should've just given him a little help in a situation like that. I know I'm late, but damn. He looks so lost and awkward next to Obama.

[jaguarr]

Wow. He really is holding that football like a trophy. I get the feeling, watching McCain in the media, that he doesn't have good support next to him. Someone there should've just given him a little help in a situation like that. I know I'm late, but damn. He looks so lost and awkward next to Obama.

The fact that McCain surrounds himself with people who are just as out of touch as he is should be a giant red flag.

jag

[Matt]

SO John McCain called Joe Biden to congratulate him on being selected as the Democratic nominee...and then pushes a Biden attack ad out to the media shortly thereafter.

Gotta love politics! :whatever:

It is a big career move for Biden and probably makes sense to both of them. Biden and McCain are friends. I'm sure they both know this is all part of the game and won't let it become personal, even if the attack ads are.

[Marx]

It is a big career move for Biden and probably makes sense to both of them. Biden and McCain are friends. I'm sure they both know this is all part of the game and won't let it become personal, even if the attack ads are.

I would agree with that.

[SuBe]

It is a big career move for Biden and probably makes sense to both of them. Biden and McCain are friends. I'm sure they both know this is all part of the game and won't let it become personal, even if the attack ads are.
You know they just sit back and laugh. It's probably like a Fart around guys for them. "Oop, you got me Joe. That was a real stinker"

[Arkady Rossovich]

McCain will loose this election.

[Kelly]

McCain will loose this election.

Wow, Arkady thanks for that insight......lol

[Marx]

Wow, Arkady thanks for that insight......lol

Yeah...gotta love random one liners!

[Marx]

Politico exclusive: No single-term pledge for McCain
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12681.html

[Kelly]

Well, that could have actually helped him win.............but I guess his pride won't let him do that.

[Marx]

Well, that could have actually helped him win.............but I guess his pride won't let him do that.

To be honest, I don't think he would have stayed true to the agreement. (If such an agreement were made.)

[Kelly]

Well that (lack of staying true....) seems to be the golden thread throughout this presidential election on all sides......so it wouldn't have been a surprise....

[SentinelMind]

It would seem more selfish for McCain to go through the entire Republican nomination process, pushing all these people out left and right, then make a promise before the election to only serve one term. It would be like....what was the point of your campaign if you're not going all the way. Plus, it would play into Obama's argument that McCain is too old.

[Marx]

It would seem more selfish for McCain to go through the entire Republican nomination process, pushing all these people out left and right, then make a promise before the election to only serve one term. It would be like....what was the point of your campaign if you're not going all the way. Plus, it would play into Obama's argument that McCain is too old.

I definately wouldn't silence any of the critics. That's for sure.

[Superman]

I don't blame McCain one bit for not going for a single-term pledge. I believe it was McCain himself that said that anyone who made a pledge to one term would be a lame duck from day one. He's right. It would be foolish of anyone to tie themselves down like that.

[StrainedEyes]

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/why-not-clinton-mccain-ad-asks/145652?icid=100214839x1207811003x1200428359

3NrQ36Djf2E

I wonder when McCain will stop approving useless ads and actually start trying to get elected. :whatever:

[StorminNorman]

Thats a great commercial for the Democratic National Convention.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think it is going to prove to be a rather effective ad...though maybe McCain should be letting 427s make that case instead of his official campaign.