The U.S. Is the World's Leader......

[Genesis 1.0]

.....In Incarceration that is.

According to new polls, for the first time in the history of this nation, 1 in 100 American adults are either in prison or jail. Here's the whole artcile:




NEW YORK — For the first time in history, more than one in every 100 American adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report tracking the surge in inmate population and urging states to rein in corrections costs with alternative sentencing programs.
The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher education spending, the report said.

Using updated state-by-state data, the report said 2,319,258 adults were held in U.S. prisons or jails at the start of 2008 — one out of every 99.1 adults, and more than any other country in the world.

The steadily growing inmate population ‘‘is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime,’’ said the report.

Susan Urahn, managing director of the Pew Center on the States, said budget woes are prompting officials in many states to consider new, cost-saving corrections policies that might have been shunned in the recent past for fear of appearing soft in crime.

‘‘We’re seeing more and more states being creative because of tight budgets,’’ she said in an interview. ‘‘They want to be tough on crime, they want to be a law-and-order state — but they also want to save money, and they want to be effective.’’

The report cited Kansas and Texas as states which have acted decisively to slow the growth of their inmate population. Their actions include greater use of community supervision for low-risk offenders and employing sanctions other than reimprisonment for ex-offenders who commit technical violations of parole and probation rules.

‘‘The new approach, born of bipartisan leadership, is allowing the two states to ensure they have enough prison beds for violent offenders while helping less dangerous lawbreakers become productive, taxpaying citizens,’’ the report said.

While many state governments have shown bipartisan interest in curbing prison growth, there also are persistent calls to proceed cautiously. ‘‘We need to be smarter,’’ said David Muhlhausen, a criminal justice expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation. ‘‘We’re not incarcerating all the people who commit serious crimes — but we’re also probably incarcerating people who don’t need to be.’’

According to the report, the inmate population increased last year in 36 states and the federal prison system.

The largest percentage increase — 12 percent — was in Kentucky, where Gov. Steve Beshear highlighted the cost of corrections in his budget speech last month. He noted that the state’s crime rate had increased only about 3 percent in the past 30 years, while the state’s inmate population has increased by 600 percent.

The Pew report was compiled by the Center on the State’s Public Safety Performance Project, which is working directly with 13 states on developing programs to divert offenders from prison without jeopardizing public safety.

‘‘For all the money spent on corrections today, there hasn’t been a clear and convincing return for public safety,’’ said the project’s director, Adam Gelb. ‘‘More and more states are beginning to rethink their reliance on prisons for lower-level offenders and finding strategies that are tough on crime without being so tough on taxpayers.’’

The report said prison growth and higher incarceration rates do not reflect a parallel increase in crime or in the nation’s overall population. Instead, it said, more people are behind bars mainly because of tough sentencing measures, such as ‘‘three-strikes’’ laws, that result in longer prison stays.

‘‘For some groups, the incarceration numbers are especially startling,’’ the report said. ‘‘While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine.’’
The nationwide figures, as of Jan. 1, include 1,596,127 people in state and federal prisons and 723,131 in local jails — a total 2,319,258 out of almost 230 million American adults.

The report said the United States is the world’s incarceration leader, far ahead of more populous China with 1.5 million people behind bars. It said the U.S. also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000) and other former Soviet bloc nations which make up the rest of the Top 10.


Billions of dollars and what some feel is an overly oppressive system.

So what do YOU think?

[Mr Sparkle]

the role of education and government need to be reassesed in the lives of the individual.

[SuperFerret]

High fives all around!

[EdRyder]

I caught this on the news the other night.Whats interesting to me is -why is this an issue now? Weve held the title of holding the largest percentage of incarcerated citizens in the entire world since way back in the 80's.

The only reason why I see its topical now is because it costs much more than ever before.
If thats the issue let me break it to you like this-It would be cheaper to send them all to college than to imprison them for 20 or 30 years.

Ya know,...Gladiator was on Cinemax the other night,...
Im just sayin, its a good movie,..

[The Senator]

Well... this isn't a huge surprise to me, really. I don't know what can be done about it, other than letting all the drug dealers who deserve to be in prison out on the streets again.

[Aximili]

Capital punishment, let's fix this jail crowding problem already.

Anything more serious than an armed robbery, BLAM. Cheap, methodical, humane, pretty-much guaranteed to work. And I know someone will bring up the "but lolz wut about t3h innocents?" argument...please. Sure, the government gets it wrong sometimes, but it's not a 5/10 thing. It's so much less. I'd have no problem with 100 convicted murderers getting the death penalty, if 2 of them were innocent and the rest guilty.

Small price to pay, y'know? Tough.

The world is going to hell, and this kind of stuff needs to be cleaned up.

[The Senator]

Capital punishment, let's fix this jail crowding problem already.

Anything more serious than an armed robbery, BLAM. Cheap, methodical, humane, pretty-much guaranteed to work. And I know someone will bring up the "but lolz wut about t3h innocents?" argument...please. Sure, the government gets it wrong sometimes, but it's not a 5/10 thing. It's so much less. I'd have no problem with 100 convicted murderers getting the death penalty, if 2 of them were innocent and the rest guilty.

Small price to pay, y'know? Tough.

The world is going to hell, and this kind of stuff needs to be cleaned up.

I don't think anyone should be put to death unless there is 100% proof that the suspect in question committed the crime. I feel it's a travesty when you have people serve twenty years or so of a life/ death sentence, only to find DNA evidence which completely overturns that verdict. How do those people get their lives back? What can the state do to erase those twenty years or so that innocent convict spent behind bars? A simple "sorry" in that case doesn't work. That doesn't even take into account those who are put to death, only to find out that they hadn't committed the crime in the first place. Things like this not only destroy lives, they destroy families and ruin the name of the U.S. criminal justice system. This is why we need to ensure that every crime scene is tested properly. Every piece of DNA needs to be gathered and tested, where applicable. And if you can't prove someone committed a murder or a deplorable crime without DNA evidence, then I feel the suspect, if convicted and barring a personal confession, should spend the rest of his or her life in prison rather than face death when there's a chance he or she didn't commit the crime in the first place.

I'd go into why I feel the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment... but I think the argument that there simply isn't enough physical evidence in many cases speaks volumes more than my personal opinion on the matter.

[Damiean Dark]

Capital punishment, let's fix this jail crowding problem already.

Anything more serious than an armed robbery, BLAM. Cheap, methodical, humane, pretty-much guaranteed to work. And I know someone will bring up the "but lolz wut about t3h innocents?" argument...please. Sure, the government gets it wrong sometimes, but it's not a 5/10 thing. It's so much less. I'd have no problem with 100 convicted murderers getting the death penalty, if 2 of them were innocent and the rest guilty.

Small price to pay, y'know? Tough.

The world is going to hell, and this kind of stuff needs to be cleaned up.

Thats silly and immature it sounds okay to you until you are caught in the wrong place and the wrong time.

[rdh007]

I think we're gonna need a bigger box. Make more, bigger, and more secure prisons and throw more jerks in them. That's the only thing my feeble mind can figure out. Oh, and really take some time to consider what to do with marijuana crimes.

[Buttman]

Capital punishment, let's fix this jail crowding problem already.

Anything more serious than an armed robbery, BLAM. Cheap, methodical, humane, pretty-much guaranteed to work. And I know someone will bring up the "but lolz wut about t3h innocents?" argument...please. Sure, the government gets it wrong sometimes, but it's not a 5/10 thing. It's so much less. I'd have no problem with 100 convicted murderers getting the death penalty, if 2 of them were innocent and the rest guilty.

Small price to pay, y'know? Tough.

The world is going to hell, and this kind of stuff needs to be cleaned up.
Capital punishment is out-dated and terrible. It's only a matter of time until its completely banned in the US.

I don't know.. make less stuff illegal? Drugs? Eh, I don't know.

[Mr Sparkle]

I'm not sure, but I remember a study was made about the effectiveness of Capital punishment, and it was shown to not be a deterrent when it came to crime.

[SuperFerret]

I'm not sure, but I remember a study was made about the effectiveness of Capital punishment, and it was shown to not be a deterrent when it came to crime.

I honestly feel that's because it's too soft with the supposedly painless lethal injection, plus all the legal crap one has to go through to actually get death and the rarity of it actually happening. Start killing people immediately after a conviction, maybe it'll be a deterrent.

[Genesis 1.0]

Well according to some of these reports, the general idea is that there should be more leniency regarding some charges that are considered less 'serious'. Lesser drug charges and other offenses that call for prison time are supposedly on the block.

The sentencing for possession of cocaine and crack cocaine is either already been reduced or diverted or soon to be lowered.

I don't know if that's a viable solution either. Then again, crime is and always has been one the hardest issues to tackle in this country.

[Buttman]

I was under the impression capital punishment was in the pursuit of "justice" not to set an example to would-be-criminals? Regardless, it's cruel and out-dated.

[Addendum]

If a child molester gets put to death, the cruelty aspect was already covered when the child got molested.

[SuperFerret]

Frankly, I think the death penalty isn't cruel enough for some people.

[Buttman]

Frankly, I think the death penalty isn't cruel enough for some people.
Then I'm glad I'm not you. :up:

[SuperFerret]

Then I'm glad I'm not you. :up:

:up:

So you're saying that someone who kidnaps, tortures, rapes and murders a little girl doesn't deserve to die in the most painful way possible?

[Addendum]

The only person in a violent crime that faced cruelty was the victim. Why should I be concerned with the convict?

[rdh007]

The only person in a violent crime that faced cruelty was the victim. Why should I be concerned with the convict?
Because they may not be guilty?

Because two wrongs don't make a right?

Lastly, a petty one: Because it's more expensive to convict someone and put them to death than to convict them and leave them in prison forever?

[Obi-Ron]

Lastly, a petty one: Because it's more expensive to convict someone and put them to death than to convict them and leave them in prison forever?

I've never understood this argument. A lifetime's worth of food costs less than a rope?

[Addendum]

Well, if they're innocent, then that can be taken care of during the appeals process through introducing new evidence, DNA testing, testimony from a new witness, or other things.

I'm aware that 2 wrongs don't make a right. However, only the victim of a violent crime and their family merit my sympathy and concern.

Compared to countless examples of fiscal irresponsibility perpetuated by the government, from bridges to nowhere in Alaska, to substandard workmanship on the New Orleans levees by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and even the cluster**** in Iraq (just to name 3 examples out of many), the amount of money spent on putting someone on Death Row is minuscule.

[bell110]

Capital punishment, let's fix this jail crowding problem already.

Anything more serious than an armed robbery, BLAM. Cheap, methodical, humane, pretty-much guaranteed to work. And I know someone will bring up the "but lolz wut about t3h innocents?" argument...please. Sure, the government gets it wrong sometimes, but it's not a 5/10 thing. It's so much less. I'd have no problem with 100 convicted murderers getting the death penalty, if 2 of them were innocent and the rest guilty.

Small price to pay, y'know? Tough.

The world is going to hell, and this kind of stuff needs to be cleaned up.

Yeah, it's easy to say that now, but what happens when you or someone you love is one of those 2 innocent people.

[zenile]

:up:

So you're saying that someone who kidnaps, tortures, rapes and murders a little girl doesn't deserve to die in the most painful way possible?

:dry:

Well, if your for a civilized society then they don't, and it would be unconstitutional to boot.

[Genesis 1.0]

:dry:

Well, if your for a civilized society then they don't, and it would be unconstitutional to boot.

Just for curiosity, could you expound on this?

[zenile]

Just for curiosity, could you expound on this?

The most painful method of death thought possible to me, would be to have all of your skin peeled off then slowly dipped in a big tub of salt. To most people, this would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment" in violation of the 8th Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

[SuperMonkey]

So sad. Maybe we should just let all the serial killers, child molestors and rapists go free.

That would solve everything! :)

[thedeadite]

Or you could take a look at outdated drug laws, with marijuana in particular. Most inmates are there for drug related charges. With drugs (most if not all in my opinion) legal, controlled and taxed by the government, the amount of people going to jail over drug charges would drop dramatically and the government would make a killing financially.

[zenile]

Or even looking at what types of punishments are handed out for what crimes. Most drug related crimes that are punishable with incarceration should be replaced with heavy fines, and the government could garnish wages to ensure that the fines are paid. So instead of costing taxpayers money by having to house criminals, it could be used as a source of revenue.

[SuperFerret]

:dry:

Well, if your for a civilized society then they don't, and it would be unconstitutional to boot.

The most painful method of death thought possible to me, would be to have all of your skin peeled off then slowly dipped in a big tub of salt. To most people, this would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment" in violation of the 8th Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

I know that. Hence why I'm saying that the death penalty isn't cruel and unusual ENOUGH. :cwink:

[SuperMonkey]

Or you could take a look at outdated drug laws, with marijuana in particular. Most inmates are there for drug related charges. With drugs (most if not all in my opinion) legal, controlled and taxed by the government, the amount of people going to jail over drug charges would drop dramatically and the government would make a killing financially.
very, very false.

[Zen]

very, very false.


Need information to consider point... Or ZenBot no understand you saying.

[EdRyder]

very, very false.

No ,thats a fact. Somewhere between 20 to 23 % of convicted inmates are incarcerated for drug related charges.Thats the largest percentage of the imprisoned populations "shared" convictions.

[Genesis 1.0]

Yeah well as I said earlier, those convicted of a certain class of cocaine and crack charges can be up for early release. The new reduction in severity was retroactive so they should be able to be released back into the public.

[The Senator]

There's a bill in the Senate which will reduce the sentences for crack cocaine dealers and users. I don't know if it will pass, but it would probably cut back on the amount of people on prison on drug charges.

[Genesis 1.0]

There's a bill in the Senate which will reduce the sentences for crack cocaine dealers and users. I don't know if it will pass, but it would probably cut back on the amount of people on prison on drug charges.

I just read in the paper a few days ago that some inmates were already up for early release.

Must be more than one bill.

[EdRyder]

There was always a huge discrepancy between crack and powder cocaines mandatory minimums.

Five grams of Crack will earn you five years where it would take 500 grams of powder to get the same sentence.

[The Senator]

I just read in the paper a few days ago that some inmates were already up for early release.

Must be more than one bill.

Hmm. Maybe one bill was at the state level, and the other federal? Or maybe the Senate bill already passed?

I think I heard about it at work in January, so it's possible it may have passed and gone into law already.

[brobdingnag]

.....In Incarceration that is.

According to new polls, for the first time in the history of this nation, 1 in 100 American adults are either in prison or jail. Here's the whole artcile:



Billions of dollars and what some feel is an overly oppressive system.

So what do YOU think?

Well first of all we have a very open system that doesn't really do much punishing. People are not afraid of breaking the law here like they are in a Muslim country because they are going to get a slap on the wrist comparatively speaking. You get in trouble, you do 6 months and you're back on the street (even for stuff like rape or assault). We should relax drug possession laws and drunk driving laws; and increase penalties for violent offenses such as rape and murder. Also we need to be PUNISHING violent offenders, not just giving them 3 hots and a cot for 10 years while they get their law degree and workout all day. Bring back chain gangs where they work your ass from sunup to sundown and prison wont be the attractive career choice it is now.

[SentinelMind]

.....In Incarceration that is.

According to new polls, for the first time in the history of this nation, 1 in 100 American adults are either in prison or jail. Here's the whole artcile:



Billions of dollars and what some feel is an overly oppressive system.

So what do YOU think?

not being facetious...but why exactly is this a problem?

[SentinelMind]

I caught this on the news the other night.Whats interesting to me is -why is this an issue now? Weve held the title of holding the largest percentage of incarcerated citizens in the entire world since way back in the 80's.

The only reason why I see its topical now is because it costs much more than ever before.
If thats the issue let me break it to you like this-It would be cheaper to send them all to college than to imprison them for 20 or 30 years.

Ya know,...Gladiator was on Cinemax the other night,...
Im just sayin, its a good movie,..

:huh: :huh: What does this have to do with the fact that those people in prison are convicted of a crime? Aren't you making a huge assumption that all those people want to go to college or would effectively use their time in college?

[SentinelMind]

No ,thats a fact. Somewhere between 20 to 23 % of convicted inmates are incarcerated for drug related charges.Thats the largest percentage of the imprisoned populations "shared" convictions.

20 to 23% is not a majority of convicts, which was what Supermonkey was claiming was false.....you're arguing its the highest number under a certain categorization of offenses. that doesn't mean we should all let them go, either.

[SentinelMind]

Or even looking at what types of punishments are handed out for what crimes. Most drug related crimes that are punishable with incarceration should be replaced with heavy fines, and the government could garnish wages to ensure that the fines are paid. So instead of costing taxpayers money by having to house criminals, it could be used as a source of revenue.

but what happens if the convict doesn't have the money? And what if he doesn't pay. Do we need more administrative costs to go find the people, who have done drugs and are now back in society, and make sure they pay? It's a safety issue, these people should be off the streets...

[Genesis 1.0]

not being facetious...but why exactly is this a problem?

Heh, WHY is it a problem?

Because for the first time ever, we have a record number of citizens in prison or jail, which by default means that crime is skyrocketing. If the safety of your average joe isn't enough, it's draining our economy tremendously.

Crime is continuing to rise in America, at the most basic of levels, isn't that problem enough?