Spectacular spider-man's pros and cons to help with the fututre of the series

[strugler]

Hey guys!
I just watched the first two episodes i thought instead of just saying god i love it or this sucks, it will be far more beneficial to all of us to list the pros and ons of the series so far so we can help make this show better.
Ok i will start:

Pros:
- The spectacular Spidey animations while jumping swinging etc
- the movie feel of spidey movements.
- Catchy music and especially the theme song.
- Feels a lot like the comic book.
- the mix of ultimate spider-man and 616 spidey in one series.
- The Lee/Ditko feel of the series.
- the character development so far is great.
- peter/spidey voice acting
- Spidey fights
-hammer head redesign.

cons:
- peter's nose and eyes are way too horrible so is all character's eyes pretty much.
- Liz being a hispanic
- Horrible horrible voice acting for harry and liz
- Connors cybernetic arm defeats the whole purpose of sympathizing with his character.
- Eddir brock's face and hair as well as feet are atrocious.
- Aunt may looks like a girl in her late 20's with dyed hair.
- Vulture's big nose (WTF)
- Norman's asian eyes (wtf2)

Mostly my problem is with some design ideas they went with i know they simplified the character's look for the sake of the animation but still they could have made more efort in not making them look like samurai jack.
I liked the series dont get me wrong but if you really want to make this THE best spider-man animated series they really need to make some design changes, a series wont kick ass with only good writing and animation, the design is a huge part of any animated feature.

Now what abt you guys what are the pros and cons of series in your opinion?

[Spider-ManHero12]

I basically have no problems with anything the show. Everything is great and I love it! :spidey::up:

[CaptainStacy]

I basically have no problems with anything the show. Everything is great and I love it! :spidey::up:

Same here. So far, nothing's broken, so why worry about fixing it?

[Spider-ManHero12]

Same here. So far, nothing's broken, so why worry about fixing it? Exactly, and well said. :up:

[November Rain]

i need some face punching in my life, I'm not going to see any in this show...

meh....

[Spider-ManHero12]

i need some face punching in my life, I'm not going to see any in this show...

meh.... You will, most likley with all of the other Villians.

[IamProdigy]

Hey guys!
I just watched the first two episodes i thought instead of just saying god i love it or this sucks, it will be far more beneficial to all of us to list the pros and ons of the series so far so we can help make this show better.
Ok i will start:

Pros:
- The spectacular Spidey animations while jumping swinging etc
- the movie feel of spidey movements.
- Catchy music and especially the theme song.
- Feels a lot like the comic book.
- the mix of ultimate spider-man and 616 spidey in one series.
- The Lee/Ditko feel of the series.
- the character development so far is great.
- peter/spidey voice acting
- Spidey fights
-hammer head redesign.

cons:
- peter's nose and eyes are way too horrible so is all character's eyes pretty much.
- Liz being a hispanic
- Horrible horrible voice acting for harry and liz
- Connors cybernetic arm defeats the whole purpose of sympathizing with his character.
- Eddir brock's face and hair as well as feet are atrocious.
- Aunt may looks like a girl in her late 20's with dyed hair.
- Vulture's big nose (WTF)
- Norman's asian eyes (wtf2)

Mostly my problem is with some design ideas they went with i know they simplified the character's look for the sake of the animation but still they could have made more efort in not making them look like samurai jack.
I liked the series dont get me wrong but if you really want to make this THE best spider-man animated series they really need to make some design changes, a series wont kick ass with only good writing and animation, the design is a huge part of any animated feature.

Now what abt you guys what are the pros and cons of series in your opinion?


You had all of those pros, but you could have easily simplified most of the cons to just one, and say the animation for the eyes and nose look awful...but, wait a minute, you put up animation as a pro...did you like it or not?

[Nathan]

The show was good, but I would still prefer better designs and proper proportions. Still can't get over the fact that Venom's arms are going to be almost as long as his entire body.

[November Rain]

You will, most likley with all of the other Villians.
i sincerely doubt it. I'm willing to put money on it.

[Spider-ManHero12]

i sincerely doubt it. I'm willing to put money on it. I think The Batman had punching in it, so why wouldn't this show? It must have the same rules.

[Visionary]

*I would say that the character designs (with proper proportions) should be a bit more detailed in season TWO or THREE. But only if the show has strong ratings, so Sony can throw some extra cash at the animation as the character designs become more detailed--so it doesn't lose its fluid animation.

*Punching, and this means face punching, I want to see Spider-Man's punches connect, be not afraid of violence. It's apart of the realm of superheroes.

*Yeah, and I agree that Curt Connors should be seen without his mechanical arm. I don't want them trying to hide the fact that he has no arm, I want to see it visually. (I can wait to see THE LIZARD nest week!)

*Let's see a much more sexy Gwen Stacy, let her hair down, being that she's on the show. Let's see her dangle her pretty thangs. I mean dress a lot more sexy.

*Adapt story arcs from the comics every once and a while; The Master Planner, Kraven's Last Hunt, etc.

Everything else I pretty much like indeed, damn good show. :cool:

[Arcturus]

Same here. So far, nothing's broken, so why worry about fixing it?

Agreed!

:up:

[Kamarov]

i need some face punching in my life, I'm not going to see any in this show...

meh....
I think we should just be thankful that we have spidey throwing a punch at all because he's the only mainstream comicbook icon who usually gets the short straw when it comes to regulations as to what is and what isn't allowed. Saying that, after the good swipe that vulture gave spidey, I'm pretty sure we'll get spidey landing a few punches in the kisser.

[Kamarov]

As for Gwen being more sexy, I see it happening but that's thecharm of character development, I want to see these characetrs grow but in the mean time, I'm content with their humble beginings.

I also hope to God that we don't get too many non-superhumans breaking spidey's webbing.

[November Rain]

I think The Batman had punching in it, so why wouldn't this show? It must have the same rules.
the very same could be said about the hulk, x-men and fantastic four cartoons back in the 90s which all had punching in it yet spidey back then didn't so....

that point is pretty much mute

[CaptainStacy]

the very same could be said about the hulk, x-men and fantastic four cartoons back in the 90s which all had punching in it yet spidey back then didn't so....

that point is pretty much mute

Werent those toons on different networks?

The whole thing with Spider-Man: TAS was it was being handled by Saban Entertainment, which also handled Power Rangers. PR got a LOT of bad press due to all the excessive fighting, and when Saban picked up Spider-Man, advertisers threatened to pull out of the show if the violence wasnt toned down. In fact, iirc, Canada threatened to not allow Spider-Man to be shown if the show didnt follow certain guidelines....

[Sarcastic Fan]

There will be punching. The creators have said there will be punching. What's the debate?

[Green Goblin 1964]

Yeah, they said they would have some punching when Spidey's really getting the crap beat out of him and has no other choice.

[Spider-ManHero12]

the very same could be said about the hulk, x-men and fantastic four cartoons back in the 90s which all had punching in it yet spidey back then didn't so....

that point is pretty much mute This is different than the 1990's show though. Just because that show didn't have punching, it doesn't mean this one wouldn't. Besides, it's already been confirmed he will punch.

[Spider-Gnome]

Same here. So far, nothing's broken, so why worry about fixing it?

I agree! See, didn't I say this was THE Spidey series. I think so far it is the best interpretation of the comic!

Observations: Great to see wisecracking Spidey again! It's funny how the cool crowd from college (Harry & Gwen) have become the geeks of high school. Love little details like Pete's tag sticking out of the back of his shirt. Also love the endings with Spidey face in the sky. Very much like the old comics!

No gripes yet!

[Spider-ManHero12]

I agree! See, didn't I say this was THE Spidey series. I think so far it is the best interpretation of the comic!

Observations: Great to see wisecracking Spidey again! It's funny how the cool crowd from college (Harry & Gwen) have become the geeks of high school. Love little details like Pete's tag sticking out of the back of his shirt. Also love the endings with Spidey face in the sky. Very much like the old comics!

No gripes yet! Beautiful post! :applaud

[Nathan]

Love little details like Pete's tag sticking out of the back of his shirt.

I hate that. In fact, it drives me crazy. Cut it off already, you little punk! :cmad:

And before someone says anything, no, I'm not hating on the show. It's just annoying, like someone's habbit to chew on fingernails and spit them across the room.

[LobokDaikon]

I don't know if they'll actually mention his motivation, but it's not like being able to regrow limbs is something Connors would only care about for himself. Regeneration of limbs would be one of the greatest medical achievements ever. The sympathy for the character is not that he's handicapped, but that he is a good man who was too hasty with experimenting on himself in pursuit of his goal, and unfortunately turned into a monster because of it.

[samsnee]

Peter's face... hate the nose and the dumb mole.

Harry's voice needs to go through puberty already.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Peter's face... hate the nose and the dumb mole.

Harry's voice needs to go through puberty already.BEAUTY MARK! :cmad:

[Nathan]

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee206/KissyTheSissy/mole.gif :D

[Green Goblin 1964]

You know your on the Hype when you hear people b*tching about Peter Parker's beauty mark.



Come on now...

[Arcturus]

You know your on the Hype when you hear people b*tching about Peter Parker's beauty mark.



Come on now...

Agreed.

[Spider-ManHero12]

You know your on the Hype when you hear people b*tching about Peter Parker's beauty mark.



Come on now... Lol.

[Sawyer]

I dont have a problem with the "beauty mark" as much as I do his ridiculously huge eyes.

And Liz's voice was AWFUL

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Pros:
- The spectacular Spidey animations while jumping swinging etc
- the movie feel of spidey movements.
- Feels a lot like the comic book.
- the mix of ultimate spider-man and 616 spidey in one series.
- The Lee/Ditko feel of the series.
-Norman Osborne---even though his hairdo is a bit much but he clearly resembles Willem Defoe with his mannerisms and overall approach to Peter and Harry. Pete he sees as the son he wished he had, whereas Harry he sees as an embarrassment.
- I liked how offscreen we got the sense that Keith David might be voicing The Kingpin.
- Electro with the gas mask wasn't too bad but once he turned into a bastardized version of his Ultimate self than he lost me.


Cons:
- peter's nose and eyes are way too horrible so is all character's eyes pretty much.
-Horrible voice-acting from the actor playing Harry Osborne. He sounds more like a nerd than Pete. They could've gotten someone like Ian Zerieng from the MTV show who sort of sounds like James Franco.
- Liz being a hispanic
- Gwen looking more like Liz Allen than looking like what she does in the comics.
- The constant cameos, guest-spots, and overcrowding and cramming of storylines and characters.

- Doc Ock's look, Vulture's look, and pretty much all of the characters themselves.

-Brock being made into a big, bulky fat ass.

- Hammerhead's new look. He looks more like Flattop from "Dick Tracy" or someone who has an oblong-shaped head tumor.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Pros:
- The spectacular Spidey animations while jumping swinging etc
- the movie feel of spidey movements.
- Feels a lot like the comic book.
- the mix of ultimate spider-man and 616 spidey in one series.
- The Lee/Ditko feel of the series.
-Norman Osborne---even though his hairdo is a bit much but he clearly resembles Willem Defoe with his mannerisms and overall approach to Peter and Harry. Pete he sees as the son he wished he had, whereas Harry he sees as an embarrassment.
- I liked how offscreen we got the sense that Keith David might be voicing The Kingpin.
- Electro with the gas mask wasn't too bad but once he turned into a bastardized version of his Ultimate self than he lost me.


Cons:
- peter's nose and eyes are way too horrible so is all character's eyes pretty much.
-Horrible voice-acting from the actor playing Harry Osborne. He sounds more like a nerd than Pete. They could've gotten someone like Ian Zerieng from the MTV show who sort of sounds like James Franco.
- Liz being a hispanic
- Gwen looking more like Liz Allen than looking like what she does in the comics.
- The constant cameos, guest-spots, and overcrowding and cramming of storylines and characters.

- Doc Ock's look, Vulture's look, and pretty much all of the characters themselves.

-Brock being made into a big, bulky fat ass.

- Hammerhead's new look. He looks more like Flattop from "Dick Tracy" or someone who has an oblong-shaped head tumor.If it works why not? And IMO it did work. And come on guys, are we complaining over Liz Allan being hispanic? I know it's a change but it's not like she's a huge character in the Spidey mythos. It's not like they are going to change MJ to Asian or JJJ to African American. I think the complaint over that is hideous. But I do see where some of you guys are getting at with her voice character though.

[Webhead2006]

actually keith david isnt kingpin. Kingpin was confirmed to be off limits for variety of reasons. The character david voice is an actual villain from the comics. Check out the bio on the character from spiderfan.org: http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/big_man.html

[NinjaTurtleFan]

If it works why not? And IMO it did work. And come on guys, are we complaining over Liz Allan being hispanic? I know it's a change but it's not like she's a huge character in the Spidey mythos. It's not like they are going to change MJ to Asian or JJJ to African American. I think the complaint over that is hideous. But I do see where some of you guys are getting at with her voice character though.

It worked to a sense, but it also was like "SPIDER-MAN 3"---let's see how much storyline can we weave and twine into a ball to last a half-hour. Sorry, didn't cut it for me. I'd give the show a 6/10 overall but it ain't a 10/10 4 star-hit like some of you are making it. Yes, Spidey moves faster because of the fluidness and impressiveness of the webslinging animation, but aerial fights and a fast-moving Spidey can't escape dodgy, poorly-constructed designs, too much emphasis on how many characters and villains can we fit onscreen, and semi-great voice-acting. Personally, didn't mind Joe Dimaggio as Rhino or some of the other cast but a new voice-actor has to come in for Harry. He sounds like he hasn't hit puberty yet. Harry was the one who got friends, got in trouble, and got girls---yet here he seems like he is a bigger geek and more timid than Pete is. Peter has on these skater-like clothes, long scruffy hair, and seems more like he is less a science nerd and more of a badass.

And lastly onto Liz Allen. I don't care if they changed her hair color but I didn't like that they changed her to be some dumb prep girl who needs bookworm Peter to tudor her. I like the Liz Allen from the old series who worked alongside Connors. Here it seems they wanted Gwen to look like Liz. And Brock looks like a total fat-ass. Same goes for Flash Thompson.

And sorry but I'll stay say the designs look like Playskool toys; it seems like this show was geared for new Spidey fans 4-up and tots.

[Venom 1988]

actually keith david isnt kingpin. Kingpin was confirmed to be off limits for variety of reasons. The character david voice is an actual villain from the comics. Check out the bio on the character from spiderfan.org: http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/big_man.html

Yea hes mentioned twice by name

Alex (aka Rhino) - "Not after the Big Man takes his cut anyway"
Hammerhead - "C'mon the Big Man wants a word"

[Venom 1988]

It worked to a sense, but it also was like "SPIDER-MAN 3"---let's see how much storyline can we weave and twine into a ball to last a half-hour. Well thats because the season is broken up into different arcs, with storylines branching over several episodes. There doing this for DVD reasons, much like TPB is for comics nowadays. Maybe it might be a better watch for you seeing the first 4 episodes or so back to back.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Well thats because the season is broken up into different arcs, with storylines branching over several episodes. There doing this for DVD reasons, much like TPB is for comics nowadays. Maybe it might be a better watch for you seeing the first 4 episodes or so back to back.

I suppose but the designs really ruin the enjoyment I could have for this. If the same people who made the new Ninja Turtles did the designs I would be happy. If the same people who did the designs for Clone Wars or these:

http://www.robert-frederick.co.uk/images/licensing_lounge/potcc/rfs7761_b.jpg



I would be happy as well. Hell, it would've been really cool to have gotten the writers/animators from the "Ultimate Avengers" movies to do this show but nope they couldn't do it.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Alright, NTF, go on complaining. The rest of us are just going to watch and enjoy the cartoon....


SEE YA!

[Nathan]

If the same people who made the new Ninja Turtles did the designs I would be happy.

And me as well. The cartoon is good, fluid animations and a good story, but the art could definitely need a few tweaks.

If the art would actually look as good at this, the cartoon would be way more enjoyable.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6551/aprilturnqh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8241/kcturnbt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Honestly, I actually preferred Electro with his mask on. I think that speaks volumes. What annoys me the most, is the fact that they are capable of drawing a badass Electro, but decided to go with the button eyes look and Mr. Incredible chin.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2546/e1yf8.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1900/e2az9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Green Goblin 1964]

Here's something I need to tell you guys...
:o


The artist is not changing


So get used to it...

[Spider-ManHero12]

Guys, your judging the art too early on. You'll probably get used to it and if you don't, well then there's always the 1990's series to watch instead of this.

[Nathan]

I just can't wait till the current trend of drawing everything simple and deformed is over. Wonder how many years it'll take.

[strugler]

Well i would really love to know how old are all of you who are enjoying the art style so we can get an idea. Anyway there is question that the animation is great and the music rocks, but for me, for now comparing the first 2 episodes of this to those of the 90's show, i prefer the 90's show.

And just so you know i just watched the first season of the 90's show over the weekend and my only complain was the cgi backgrounds and the music sucks other than that its rock-on.

If the guys behind the SSM wants their show to be known as THE spiderman animated series of all time im afraid that they need change the artstyle and get sony to give them more cash for that coz really the art is keeping me away from enjoying this new series.

i am 26 by the way in case anybody is wondering.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well i would really love to know how old are all of you who are enjoying the art style so we can get an idea. Anyway there is question that the animation is great and the music rocks, but for me, for now comparing the first 2 episodes of this to those of the 90's show, i prefer the 90's show.

And just so you know i just watched the first season of the 90's show over the weekend and my only complain was the cgi backgrounds and the music sucks other than that its rock-on.

If the guys behind the SSM wants their show to be known as THE spiderman animated series of all time im afraid that they need change the artstyle and get sony to give them more cash for that coz really the art is keeping me away from enjoying this new series.

i am 26 by the way in case anybody is wondering. I'm 14, and I know some of the other guys are over 20 years old, so it really doesn't matter how old we are. Also, The show is still going to be THE Spider-Man animated series, whether people like it or not. Tons of people, such as myself, love the art so there really is no way they are going to change it.

[Spider-Gnome]

I suppose but the designs really ruin the enjoyment I could have for this. If the same people who made the new Ninja Turtles did the designs I would be happy. If the same people who did the designs for Clone Wars or these:

http://www.robert-frederick.co.uk/images/licensing_lounge/potcc/rfs7761_b.jpg



I would be happy as well. Hell, it would've been really cool to have gotten the writers/animators from the "Ultimate Avengers" movies to do this show but nope they couldn't do it.

My son has quite a few Pirates things with this style. I'd love to see a Pirates cartoon using this character designs!

Getting back to Spider-Man, I really love the new Spider-Man style. I have been there since the 60's cartoon and I think Spectacular is the BEST from an art style point of view, and that includes the 90's show. I love it when things are stylized (can't wait for the new Clone Wars cartoon either!). When they try to get "Too real" like what you think the 90's show was, it gets too stiff. Then, they try and cut corners and sometimes they look just off and awkward. This show (at least through the first 2 episodes), has maintained it's style and the animation is very fluid, the best it's been!

Would I prefer more webs on Spidey's costume? Yeah, but to make the cartoon action kick ass, I'll take this compromise. Plus I like the eyes (I am very picky about Spidey's eyes).

If I want realism, I'd like to see it done in the style of comics when Gil Kane did pencils & John Romita Sr. did inks (the time around the deaths of Gwen & the Green Goblin). But I know that would be WAY too cost prohibitive. Besides, I dig this cartoony style!

And you guys are talking He-Man? Are you kidding me? I know I am older than most of you (I know not all, Capt. Stacy), so I was already in college I think when that show came out. I saw it for what it was. A limited animated show to sell toys.

Seriously, you want He-Man style and animation over this new Spidey?? :wow: Seriously???:shock

[Spider-Gnome]

Well i would really love to know how old are all of you who are enjoying the art style so we can get an idea. Anyway there is question that the animation is great and the music rocks, but for me, for now comparing the first 2 episodes of this to those of the 90's show, i prefer the 90's show.

And just so you know i just watched the first season of the 90's show over the weekend and my only complain was the cgi backgrounds and the music sucks other than that its rock-on.

If the guys behind the SSM wants their show to be known as THE spiderman animated series of all time im afraid that they need change the artstyle and get sony to give them more cash for that coz really the art is keeping me away from enjoying this new series.

i am 26 by the way in case anybody is wondering.

OK, for the record, I'm 43.

I have the entire 60's Spider-Man on DVD (the show that started it all for me). I have taped EVERY episode of the 90's series.

This Spectacular Spider-Man is THE Spider-Man show. (I give the 60's theme song an edge, but this new theme is better than all the others).

The MTV show was wrong on all levels. The only thing I liked was the way Spider-Man looked and moved. Everything else was wrong.

[Venom 1988]

Well i would really love to know how old are all of you who are enjoying the art style so we can get an idea. I'll be 20 in 3 months. Also just so you know I grew up watching reruns and VHS of the 80s cartoon, then later on watched the 90s show when it first aired on Fox.

[IamProdigy]

OK, for the record, I'm 43.


****...haha.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

22 here.

[Venomfan]

i'm 20, and i liked most of the stuff on the show, but i'll just list the negatives since there are less of them

-Spider-man is a weakling, he can't get out of Ox's hold, or even keep up with fancy dan, two non powered people
-Harry's voice is awful
-Liz Allen, everything about her
-Gwen should look more the comic, too nerdy looking, although maybe after she becomes friends with MJ or Liz they'll give her a makeover, but she should be the kind of girl who is friends with everyone, the cool kids and the nerds, kinda like a intermediary
-the black suit shown in the opening is a terrible change
-pointless villain redesigns, the classics are better, although Vultures is just as good, although they could shorten his nose big time
-the animation style they went with makes it look like the show is meant for 4 year olds imo
-not really a fan of Brock being a nerd

i think i like the rest though :yay:

oh yah and it's funny how you can tell before reading their reviews which people were gonna say it was perfect no matter what

[diespinne]

And lastly onto Liz Allen. I don't care if they changed her hair color but I didn't like that they changed her to be some dumb prep girl who needs bookworm Peter to tudor her. I like the Liz Allen from the old series who worked alongside Connors. Here it seems they wanted Gwen to look like Liz. And Brock looks like a total fat-ass. Same goes for Flash Thompson.


What?! You're talking about Deborah Whitman in the 'old series', NOT Liz Allen. Liz Allen was not in the old series AT ALL from what I remember. If you want to talk Liz Allen, check out the original comics. As for Gwen and Harry being bookworms, this is a depiction of them in highschool, NOT in college. In the original comics, we don't meet them until college, and in this cartoon, they are re-imagining what they would be like in highschool if they were friends with Peter back then. I'm glad they didn't go with the James Franco movie version of Harry.

[Sarcastic Fan]

26 years old, and a pro.

[November Rain]

This is different than the 1990's show though. Just because that show didn't have punching, it doesn't mean this one wouldn't. Besides, it's already been confirmed he will punch.
There are show's that apparently 'punch' these days...watch the batman, almost 98% of all punches and kicks thrown in that show come from a POV view which lacks any significant impact when landed.

this is probably the route they'll go. It's still not a well felt punch, ya know, with weight around it.

alright, i'll correct myself, there won't be any hard felt punches coming out of spidey's corner.

[Visionary]

Nah, that's a cop-out, I want a punch that connects fully. Kids and parents won't give a damn one way or another, so why do they have to be such pussies?

[UltimateJustin]

Because in the 1990's apparently kids were murdering each other for days at a time wearing Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers motorcycle helmet masks and now cartoons have to be sensitive to our retarded little developing minds.

Here is a character design comparision chart. Its scientific. Decide whether YOU think they went too far with the designs or not, compared to the 90's show.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison3.jpg

I'm getting used to them, so the only thing I find absolutely unbelievable in terms of lazy design is the smooshed jawline and tiny moustache on JJJ and the "we hate legs, legts are so stupid, why do people have legs anyway??" mentality behind the crippled and raped Venom re-design.

Another thing to consider when comparing this show to the 90's series is that TAS also introduced characters such as Eddie Brock before they became villains, and even setup the begining of the contempt Eddie has for Spiderman in the first episode. As you know, the show had ridiculous several part episodes and often used flashbacks to recall earlier moments. Saturday we can compare the first episode of TAS which featured the Lizard to SSM's Lizard episode, and see whether all that "great character development" we've gotten (introducing Curt Connors, explaining that he is a scientist, that he studies regeneration, and showing that his capsule got eLeCtRoCuTeD) makes the experience that much more gripping.

Also for fairness, keep in mind that every episode of TAS was about some kind of stupid conveinent weapon and that it was very Madame Web friendly.

[November Rain]

Nah, that's a cop-out, I want a punch that connects fully. Kids and parents won't give a damn one way or another, so why do they have to be such pussies?
They still think kids wish to emulate their heroes...

the funny thing is that they never come down hard on the video game market but i guess beat em ups now have teen ratings (since they didn't do before).

It all comes down to the perceived and actual demographic of the show. the show is blatantly for young childrens but a large chunk is written for us older fans, so they write for us and have the violent toned down for them to get the best of both worlds.

It's impossible to satisfy both markets in the eyes of those in a board meeting.

[November Rain]

Also for fairness, keep in mind that every episode of TAS was about some kind of stupid conveinent weapon and that it was very Madame Web friendly.HEY if you are making fun of the neogenic recombinator, I'll bite your ass

:cmad:

[Kamarov]

If DBZ (which was aimed at kids on a large scale) can have some of the most brutal violence in a cartoon show can get away with the things they did, I don't see why spider-man shouldn't be able to knock someone out with a fist full of fingers.

[Kamarov]

What?! You're talking about Deborah Whitman in the 'old series', NOT Liz Allen. Liz Allen was not in the old series AT ALL from what I remember. If you want to talk Liz Allen, check out the original comics. As for Gwen and Harry being bookworms, this is a depiction of them in highschool, NOT in college. In the original comics, we don't meet them until college, and in this cartoon, they are re-imagining what they would be like in highschool if they were friends with Peter back then. I'm glad they didn't go with the James Franco movie version of Harry.

Liz Allen was in the 90s show. She was MJ's friend who worked at the cofee shop. I remember seeing her in the hydroman episode and during peter and mj's wedding.

[Kamarov]

actually keith david isnt kingpin. Kingpin was confirmed to be off limits for variety of reasons. The character david voice is an actual villain from the comics. Check out the bio on the character from spiderfan.org: http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/big_man.html

I knew he sounded familiar. He voiced that cia agent in the mtv spider-man series and I wonder if they're going to stick with bigman being foswell as foswell at the bugle office didn't look anything like the shadowy figure of bigman.

[3dman27]

HEY if you are making fun of the neogenic recombinator, I'll bite your ass

:cmad:
sic 'im november

[UltimateJustin]

No way man, I had to build a neogenic recombinator for the science fair. They're cool with me.

[Visionary]

They still think kids wish to emulate their heroes...

the funny thing is that they never come down hard on the video game market but i guess beat em ups now have teen ratings (since they didn't do before).

It all comes down to the perceived and actual demographic of the show. the show is blatantly for young childrens but a large chunk is written for us older fans, so they write for us and have the violent toned down for them to get the best of both worlds.

It's impossible to satisfy both markets in the eyes of those in a board meeting.What about the Power Rangers, that was a kid show, and they would kick and punch the hell out of each other in every single episode. They solved problems through violence continuously. And it was FOX's top children show in the ratings. I just don't get it. Of all the properties in the world, comic book characters should be the ones that get the pass, because it's to be expected. Damn us getting the short end of the stick.

The thing I don't get is, they can actual make the show better by adding punching and maybe a few adult moments here and there, and parents and kids (thanks to The Simpsons, South Park, The Family Guy and Adult Swim Network) wouldn't even notice it.

[pjspider1C]

^ The Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, however, are not in the Saturday morning line-up. Justice League was never on Saturday mornings either.

Any show that is on Saturday mornings is made knowing that children will be their #1 audience. I'm not saying there won't be any punching and kicking, but I think it will be kept to a minimum. In Survival of the Fittest, Spider-Man did throw a few punches, but he never landed any of them. Kinda like the 90's series, he'll still be using his webs & environment more than he will his fists.

[Visionary]

That's just my point, make it apart of the Saturday line-up, because you can't name one child who doesn't watch The Simpsons or South Park. My point being, they can get away with it easily, it'll be a walk in the park compared to those shows. It's not like kids are going to stop watching. Why don't people think that kids are smart anymore?

What kid doesn't watch Adult Swim, do you really think that that Network is for ADULTS, seriously now?

[Spider-ManHero12]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison3.jpg It's obviously visible that the 1990's show had sort of stiffness in the characers, just by looking at those pictures because of the amount of detail. The SSM looks less detailed by defenitley fluid and fast paced and as I have said, they look great.

[pjspider1C]

That's just my point, make it apart of the Saturday line-up, because you can't name one child who doesn't watch The Simpsons or South Park. My point being, they can get away with it easily, it'll be a walk in the park compared to those shows. It's not like kids are going to stop watching. Why don't people think that kids are smart anymore?

What kid doesn't watch Adult Swim, do you really think that that Network is for ADULTS, seriously now?

It's probably not the kids the creators are worried about - it's probably more so the parents. There's a crap-ton of conservative, over-protective, anal parents out there who would write letters, make their kids stop watching the show, and give the network hell. Because of when the show is slotted, that's the audience they have to cater to the most. If it was on Cartoon Network, they could certainly do a lot more things that would be far more appealing to the more hard-core fans.

[Nathan]

Bah! Kids should learn if someone threatens to kill you, you don't jump around, you hit back. :cmad:

[pjspider1C]

^ LOL - good point! :)

[diespinne]

Liz Allen was in the 90s show. She was MJ's friend who worked at the cofee shop. I remember seeing her in the hydroman episode and during peter and mj's wedding.

Ah! I'll have to go back and watch those. I must've been too busy laughing at Spidey getting schooled by Hydroman to notice Liz.

But I'm pretty sure the original poster was complaining about Gwen resembling Debra Whitman-- not Liz.

[pjspider1C]

Yeah, I don't like the fact that Gwen looks like Debra Whitman. If I didn't know any better, that's who I would guess she was just by looking at the character.

[Kal-El 8]

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/14000/13380/121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

I'm eagerly awaiting for this to happen soon on this series.

[November Rain]

It's obviously visible that the 1990's show had sort of stiffness in the characers, just by looking at those pictures because of the amount of detail. The SSM looks less detailed by defenitley fluid and fast paced and as I have said, they look great.
When willing to spend cash, 90s animation was some of the most fluid i've seen in animation.

watch armed and dangerous and turning point for clear examples.

I do understand that sort of fluidity can't be kept up for long at that standard if you want to beat out eps.

saying that, evo, never had a problem and that wasn't overly simplified and jlu pretty much nailed it by the time they finished. grudge match is the slickest westernised fight i've ever seen animated.

[November Rain]

What about the Power Rangers, that was a kid show, and they would kick and punch the hell out of each other in every single episode. They solved problems through violence continuously. And it was FOX's top children show in the ratings. I just don't get it. Of all the properties in the world, comic book characters should be the ones that get the pass, because it's to be expected. Damn us getting the short end of the stick.

The thing I don't get is, they can actual make the show better by adding punching and maybe a few adult moments here and there, and parents and kids (thanks to The Simpsons, South Park, The Family Guy and Adult Swim Network) wouldn't even notice it.
power rangers fought monsters and not humans or human based evils...fighting monsters always makes things easier.

[Visionary]

It's probably not the kids the creators are worried about - it's probably more so the parents. There's a crap-ton of conservative, over-protective, anal parents out there who would write letters, make their kids stop watching the show, and give the network hell. Because of when the show is slotted, that's the audience they have to cater to the most. If it was on Cartoon Network, they could certainly do a lot more things that would be far more appealing to the more hard-core fans.Again, with all of the stuff that kids watch today, parents would have to write a billion letters a day, because it's on every channel (Regular and Cable). There's no way they'll single out just Spider-Man, with all of the sex and violence in other cartoons, videos, video games and TV shows--they won't even bother.

Parents hated The Simpson and they protested the hell out of it, but when FOX and the creators said f--- you, if you don't like it, don't watch it, they all went away and shut the hell up. Do I even have to tell you about the success of the Simpsons after that? Kids made The Simpsons a mega hit and their multi-billion dollar merchandising.

[Kal-El 8]

Here is a character design comparision chart. Its scientific. Decide whether YOU think they went too far with the designs or not, compared to the 90's show.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison3.jpg



The 90's all the way .

[Spider-ManHero12]

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/14000/13380/121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

I'm eagerly awaiting for this to happen soon on this series. I'm sure it will, it's too monumental not to happen.

[Joker]

The 90's all the way .

Yes, when it comes to the animation, the 90's cartoon is far superior.

[pjspider1C]

^ I totally understand where you're coming from. But the kid audience is Spider-Man's biggest source of cash. You can slap Spider-Man's face on just about anything and they'll buy it. They're not purposely going to go out of their way and risk alienating any of that. They're in the business to make money. Not appease fans.

[Visionary]

power rangers fought monsters and not humans or human based evils...fighting monsters always makes things easier.Not really, they were still humans in suits. No different from fighting The Rhino. Plus the violence in the Power Rangers were all over the news, with concerns from the parents, FOX and SABAN basically said screw the parents, this is making billions and never looked back.

[Kamarov]

edited

[Kal-El 8]

I'm sure it will, it's too monumental not to happen.

Well it better happen soon, Because this series needs a good female lead .

I swear if the opening credits didn't say Gwen Stacy , I'd swear the blonde in this series was in fact Debra Whitman .

[Kamarov]

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/14000/13380/121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

I'm eagerly awaiting for this to happen soon on this series.

I hope not to soon. I want the characters really fleshed out and for some serious pacing, instead of jumping into the all too familiar territory.

[Kamarov]

Not really, they were still humans in suits. No different from fighting The Rhino. Plus the violence in the Power Rangers were all over the news, with concerns from the parents, FOX and SABAN basically said screw the parents, this is making billions and never looked back.

Saban had the right idea. Over a decade later, they're still raking in the dough.

[Kamarov]

^ I totally understand where you're coming from. But the kid audience is Spider-Man's biggest source of cash. You can slap Spider-Man's face on just about anything and they'll buy it. They're not purposely going to go out of their way and risk alienating any of that. They're in the business to make money. Not appease fans.

*cough* ultimate spider-man *cough*

[Visionary]

Yes, when it comes to the animation, the 90's cartoon is far superior.I disagree, the first season was really good with it's animation, some episodes were greatly animated. After the first season it went down hill fast. To the point where they were rehashing various scenes throughout the new episodes. You want great consistant animation, that would be Batman TAS. As a whole, Spider-Man and X-Men simply couldn't compare. For the 90s series, I'll give him the first season and a few episodes in season two, but the show as a whole was not consistant in animation, with 5 seasons, most of the animation was sloppy. Thus, is why I say the 90s show isn't hard to beat, it's the first season that's hard to beat.

[Kal-El 8]

I hope not to soon. I want the characters really fleshed out and for some serious pacing, instead of jumping into the all too familiar territory.

Fleshed out what ????

Harry's already a spinless rich boy

Liz is Flash's girl

Gwen's Debra Whitman

Puny Parker's already an outcasted

And Spidey's an urband Legend

[Spider-ManHero12]

I hope not to soon. I want the characters really fleshed out and for some serious pacing, instead of jumping into the all too familiar territory. She probably won't be introdcued for a few more episodes.

[Kal-El 8]

Well Mary Jane Watson made her offical on screen debut in The Amazing Spider-Man # 42 at the very end of the issue just before Spider-Man would face-off against The The Rhino .

http://www.spidermanfilmblog.de/Peter%20meets%20MJ.jpg

So it's possible the episode either before or after the Rhino is introduced MJ will join the series .

[Kamarov]

Fleshed out what ????

Harry's already a spinless rich boy

Liz is Flash's girl

Gwen's Debra Whitman

Puny Parker's already an outcasted

And Spidey's an urband Legend

This is early days. I want these characters to grow, go through social changes and evolve. We see Liz as Flash' girl who's the stereotypical chick who thinks studying is a waste and has no time for squares like pete but already we've seen she's developing a liking to him. I want to see this fleshed out as well as with other characters. Gwen isn't deborah witman, she's a school girl who just so happens to wear glasses but her character in terms of her area of study is still the same as it was in the comcis. I want to see her grow, see her blossom. It's only been 2 episodes, dude. What is MJ going to bring that we havn't already seen before? MJ is nothing special, this series ca afford to wait with her character.

[Kamarov]

She probably won't be introdcued for a few more episodes.

I'd prefer it if she was introduced either at the end of season 1 or at the start of season 2.

[Visionary]

I doubt they're going to wait that long to introduce MJ. I'd say she's got from episode 3 to 8.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well Mary Jane Watson made her offical on screen debut in The Amazing Spider-Man # 42 at the very end of the issue just before Spider-Man would face-off against The The Rhino .

http://www.spidermanfilmblog.de/Peter%20meets%20MJ.jpg

So it's possible the episode either before or after the Rhino is introduced MJ will join the series . Now that I defenitlkey see happening. The fifth episode defenitley seems likley.

[animefan]

Peter's face... hate the nose and the dumb mole.

Harry's voice needs to go through puberty already.



thats and the vulture costume were the only things i didnt like

[IamProdigy]

I disagree, the first season was really good with it's animation, some episodes were greatly animated. After the first season it went down hill fast. To the point where they were rehashing various scenes throughout the new episodes. You want great consistant animation, that would be Batman TAS. As a whole, Spider-Man and X-Men simply couldn't compare. For the 90s series, I'll give him the first season and a few episodes in season two, but the show as a whole was not consistant in animation, with 5 seasons, most of the animation was sloppy. Thus, is why I say the 90s show isn't hard to beat, it's the first season that's hard to beat.


I agree with that, but there's another reason about the change of animation and designs and it's that the animation might have been great, with making eyes the normal size and what not, but it wasn't fluid, so they had to make a sleeker look, and it probably is the animation for this "age", but it makes the characters flow faster and makes the action sequences much better. And that's a good thing. I really enjoyed Venom and his look and right now I'm not enjoying the new design, but he'll work with the series though.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

What?! You're talking about Deborah Whitman in the 'old series', NOT Liz Allen. Liz Allen was not in the old series AT ALL from what I remember. If you want to talk Liz Allen, check out the original comics. As for Gwen and Harry being bookworms, this is a depiction of them in highschool, NOT in college. In the original comics, we don't meet them until college, and in this cartoon, they are re-imagining what they would be like in highschool if they were friends with Peter back then. I'm glad they didn't go with the James Franco movie version of Harry.

Sorry I meant Deb. Got the two mixed up my apologies. But I still don't understand why Gwen, Harry, or Brock would all be bookworms. Does being Venom suddenly turn Brock into a brutish, animalistic terror with fangs, claws, and a longue tongue or does he retain his intelligence if he is suppose to be Connors' pupil, proteje', whatever he is suppose to be?

Harry I'm disappointed with because they turned him into a geeky, pimply, freckled nerd; more of a nerd than Pete. I like the cocky, over-confident Harry the one who has his dad's chip on his shoulder but also can't live up to the standards of his father. It'd been cool if they would've changed the character development and made Harry a friend of Brock's and Pete's. Brock however would be with the cool kids and Harry would be the kind of guy who hangs out with everyone; Pete of course would get shunned. Brock would ask Harry why he hangs with a loser like Peter and at times it'd become a battle or struggle for Harry to answer and stay Pete's friend.

They also downplayed Harry being a ladies man. I know.... I know.... It's only been 2 episodes but it seemed Pete had the luck with the ladies. Watching Liz, it seemed like he was going to get a possible relationship and then of course she turned into a "cheerleader *****." Even Gwen it seems like a relationship is coming but it feels like "just friends." Where is Harry's arm candy?

But that's just my opinion and how I would do things.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Because in the 1990's apparently kids were murdering each other for days at a time wearing Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers motorcycle helmet masks and now cartoons have to be sensitive to our retarded little developing minds.



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison3.jpg



Venom isn't that bad, Harry isn't either even though his wardrobe and voice suck, but Jameson is probably the only design I like. I don't like hippie-version Aunt May. Yeah, it works for Ultimate Spider-Man, but May has always been to me that sweet, little old lady whom you could consider a neighbor, friend, or your own aunt.

Long live the 90's series.

[Venom 1988]

thats and the vulture costume were the only things i didnt like
Really? I thought his costume was a big improvement.

[diespinne]

Really? I thought his costume was a big improvement.

Me too! He actually sported the colors of a vulture, and I liked that he had some sort of head gear instead of an exposed bald head just waiting to get whacked by something. I also liked how the first time you see him donning his costume, he's bathed in green light, so you do get to see a green version of it briefly.

[animefan]

Really? I thought his costume was a big improvement.


i sort of did, i would of loved it if had some green on it though.

[November Rain]

Not really, they were still humans in suits. No different from fighting The Rhino. Plus the violence in the Power Rangers were all over the news, with concerns from the parents, FOX and SABAN basically said screw the parents, this is making billions and never looked back.Alright here is the thing

The power rangers fight monsters, monsters like demons. No human 'good' aspects of them all. Monsters bad to the bone

Monsters are souless

They fight monsters with mythical weapons you can't find and destroy them with giant zords you can't find anywhere.

the monsters attack the humans with strange weapons and claws and what not.

There is no sense of realism of actual danger with a power ranger fight

energy disserpation or damage is viewed with sparks flying off one's body, it's unrealistic.

In all these scenarios, the heroes can punch monsters because they are using their powers responsibly.

Look at the 90s spiderman cartoons when spidey was up against robots or monsters, heroes are allowed to lash out on souless objects or things that can't feel their wrath (in the same lines as wolverine pops his claws alot but only uses them on robots).

so if we are looking at bad guys hitting the good guys, then vioelnce in that direction is fine but you'll never see in this cartoon a good guy punching a bad guy because they don't believe that is ultimately the best way to deal with a scenario.

I know it's crazy logic considering that the main demographic for all the spiderman films are young kids and spidey two had spidey beating the living daylights out of ock on all three of their encounters.

and all rules seem to be tighter on spiderman because he's like the most relatable hero out there which means he's probably the one people would most like to emulate so he gets the tightest strings around him.What makes it hard is that spidey doesn't fight robots or monsters. He fights humanoid villains with gadgets of powers.

[Visionary]

Yes, it is crazy logic. Why, because parents were protesting on every news channel about the violence in the Power Rangers, NOT Spider-Man, POWER RANGERS? So it's obvious they didn't care about monsters or demons, they cared about the violent aspect of the show. Yet SABAN/FOX said f--- the parents, we're not changing a damn thing and damn the censors. Yet, when it came to Spider-Man, MARVEL turned into scared ass pussies. MARVEL should have had BALLS like SABAN, or taken Spider-Man to another Network, but they didn't.

[Webhead2006]

well all networks have set rules and all that in what is allow and not allowed so even if the show was on a different one censorship would be the same.

[Visionary]

I disagree, for both TSSM and the 90s series. The MTV Spider-Man busted people's ass and bled, too bad that series didn't have classic villains, and wasn't limited to the movie's motifs. Imagine a Spider-Man series on Adult Swim (for teens/adult audiences) that you know kids are going to watch. Just freakin' imagine it.

[Kamarov]

I can imagine it and I'm afarid that's all it'll be. It won't manifest into anything more.

[Visionary]

This is the part where I say...keep hope alive. :dry:

[ironman29758]

[quote=UltimateJustin;14289292]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/shocksyxx/comparison3.jpg

quote]

I love the ssm animation because it has that fast moving animation that the 90s show sort of missed. plus it will be interesting to see an adults swimm spidey show. I'll tune in everynight.:woot:

[Ratcrawler]

Didn't feel like reading the thread so sorry if this was mentioned before but I have a qualm with most superhero cartoons that SSM also falls victim too, probably moreso because it's set in NYC.

Where's the traffic?

I can just barely susPend my disbelief at the idea of a limo providing a challenging target to a man who could fly at night. But for real, when sPidey dropped off Norman at the Police Station midday and Vulture glided a foot over the street there were NO CARS IN SIGHT! C'mon, Marvel this is the city that never sleeps! You based your character designs on a style that makes them quicker to animate. You telling me you can't do the same with cars?

[Green Goblin 1964]

Didn't feel like reading the thread so sorry if this was mentioned before but I have a qualm with most superhero cartoons that SSM also falls victim too, probably moreso because it's set in NYC.

Where's the traffic?

I can just barely susPend my disbelief at the idea of a limo providing a challenging target to a man who could fly at night. But for real, when sPidey dropped off Norman at the Police Station midday and Vulture glided a foot over the street there were NO CARS IN SIGHT! C'mon, Marvel this is the city that never sleeps! You based your character designs on a style that makes them quicker to animate. You telling me you can't do the same with cars?Hmm...I agree with this

[diespinne]

Hmm...I agree with this

Me too! And while we're at it... where are all the frickin' pigeons, Marvel??? I mean this IS New York City!

[Ratcrawler]

I read that some airports use falcons to scare off birds in the morning so that they don't crash into aircraft. Maybe Vulture frightened the pigeons?

[ironwez20]

i loved the show brought me back i cant wait to see what they do with it

[MattBearPig]

There will be punching. The creators have said there will be punching. What's the debate?

Ooohhh, good to know. Hopefully he does it soon.

[Webhead2006]

well he did punch one of the enforcers in the pilot he didnt connect with any of the punches but he still punched the guy.

[Visionary]

Me too! And while we're at it... where are all the frickin' pigeons, Marvel??? I mean this IS New York City!There's not enough trees in this show, I need some damn trees, where are all the trees?

[Webhead2006]

god u guys have to nitpick every little thing like not alot of trees, no birds, not alot of cars,etc......

[UltimateJustin]

Didn't feel like reading the thread so sorry if this was mentioned before but I have a qualm with most superhero cartoons that SSM also falls victim too, probably moreso because it's set in NYC.

Where's the traffic?

I can just barely susPend my disbelief at the idea of a limo providing a challenging target to a man who could fly at night. But for real, when sPidey dropped off Norman at the Police Station midday and Vulture glided a foot over the street there were NO CARS IN SIGHT! C'mon, Marvel this is the city that never sleeps! You based your character designs on a style that makes them quicker to animate. You telling me you can't do the same with cars?
Animation is such a poor medium that its almost impossible to do anything, such as have acceptable character designs that animate well or draw cars on a street. As we all know, character models must be nearly nothing more than scribbles so they can "flow", unless of course you are watching something other than SSM, like for instance Justice League: New Frontier, the only tolerable movie ever made.

[Green Goblin 1964]

Animation is such a poor medium that its almost impossible to do anything, such as have acceptable character designs that animate well or draw cars. Just drop it, creep.He was just asking in a NON-rude way. Calm down :huh:

[Green Goblin 1964]

god u guys have to nitpick every little thing like not alot of trees, no birds, not alot of cars,etc......I think they were joking.

But it is true about the city. No cars is just a detail. Some of us want to see the real speed of NYC. Have you ever been to NYC?

[UltimateJustin]

He was just asking in a NON-rude way. Calm down :huh:
I was agreeing with him and also quoting Robocop kind of.