Animation Realities 101

[Sarcastic Fan]

Mostly because I am tired of having to constantly type and re-type this in various threads. I have studied the animation industry for some time, and more than that, I have contacts in the industry who have been working there for decades. Writers, producers, story board artists and even voice actors. I don't work there myself, but I consider myself as much of an expert as one can be without actually working in it, though I hope that eventually changes.

Why does "The Spectacular Spider-Man" look the way it does? Why are the models so streamlined and stylized when we grew up with cartoons where the character models were very detailed?

The answer is this, it is easier to animate and to animate well. To those who keep on citing shows like "G.I. Joe", "He-Man", and other shows from that era, take off the nostalgia tinted glasses and go back and actually look at them. The character models look good when they are static, but the animation is really slow and lousy.

When Bruce Timm first set out to produce "Batman: The Animated Series", people complained about his streamlined character models, I know it might not seem like it considering how universally praised he is today, but it was not the case. Why did he do that? Because he knew you got better animation out of it. Less lines to draw means less lines to animate, especially on a TV budget.

If you want those detailed models and good animation, you need the budget of a feature length Disney movie, and even then it's still not a good idea.

When "Gargoyles" was in production, the character models were a lot more detailed. Frank Paur came in and streamlined them with artists in Japan, and the result was something beautiful. But, to those who still complain about "The Spectacular Spider-Man" not looking like this, I can guarantee you that "Gargoyles" had a much higher budget than "Spidey" does. Hell, look what happened in the third season when the budget was slashed, the models were the same, but the animation was painfully ugly to watch.

Now, Spider-Man is a character that moves. The fights are fast paced, the web slinging is fast paced, and the animation on this show is just fluid, fast and gorgeous. The aerial battle with the Vulture was breathtaking, especially for TV. Now, some will point out the Fox Kids series, but, well, honestly, look at it again. It was not all that well animated. It was full of bad CGI backgrounds, the color palette was not working, and the show was mostly stock footage. It just did not look good.

When you draw a comic book, you are drawing still images that don't have to move. You can add all the detail you want, as long as you meet your deadline. Animation doesn't have that luxury. Thousands of cells go into animating a twenty-two minute production. It is a long and grueling process, and the schedule is very tight.

It is easy to be an arm chair animation producer. Just because you watch a lot of it doesn't make you an expert. I've seen so many statements made on animation and "today's technology" coming from people who just don't know what they're talking about. It's not about being lazy. It's not about dumbing animation down. It's about producing the best animation they possibly can on a budget.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Great post, Sarcastic Fan. :up:

Everybody draws differently. Sean "Cheeks" Galloway draws his own style and he draws the way he likes to. He doesn't add much detail, but it still looks fantastic. Why is that such a bad thing?

[Green Goblin 1964]

Thank you Sarcastic Fan...


Teach these TURDS A LESSON and stop b****ing!


:applaud

[Sarcastic Fan]

Thanks, I try, and I certainly didn't want it to be an angry, hate-filled rant.

[LobokDaikon]

Even if you go back to the 90's animated series, it was animated well in the beginning, but by the end of the first season it had already started to slip. These first two episodes of Spectacular have already blown away anything from the 90's series, and unless they get the rug pulled out from under their feet, it should continue to be at least this good.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Thanks, I try, and I certainly didn't want it to be an angry, hate-filled rant. And you did well, Sarcastic Fan. :yay::up:

[Sarcastic Fan]

Even if you go back to the 90's animated series, it was animated well in the beginning, but by the end of the first season it had already started to slip. These first two episodes of Spectacular have already blown away anything from the 90's series, and unless they get the rug pulled out from under their feet, it should continue to be at least this good.

"Night of the Lizard" was well animated, but it was the pilot and they usually are. The studios love to show off what they can do so they can sell the show.

[Catman]

I think most of the complain comes from the fact that the characters look like something from Fisher-Price.

[deathshead2]

I think most of the complain comes from the fact that the characters look like something from Fisher-Price.
There eyes are dead. They scare the crap out of me on the show.

[BubbaGump]

I think the show looks great. Sure the eyes take getting used to, but that's my only major issue with animation-related concerns. The show is gorgeously animated.

[Catman]

There eyes are dead. They scare the crap out of me on the show.

The eyes will brainwash you into buying Fisher-Price products.

[deathshead2]

The eyes will brainwash you into buying Fisher-Price products.
BUT I"M NOT THIER TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC!

[Webhead2006]

Yea really only thing i would have liked added in the show's animation is pupils in the eyes i dont see why they didnt do it and it probably would be that much of a hassle to have put pupils in the eyes.

[Web-Head]

Thank you, Sarcastic Fan. Now I will hopefully not have to explain this to anyone, anymore.

[Web-Head]

Yea really only thing i would have liked added in the show's animation is pupils in the eyes i dont see why they didnt do it and it probably would be that much of a hassle to have put pupils in the eyes.
The eyes didn't bother me, they looked good on Peter.

[Webhead2006]

yea it doesnt really bother me to much but i was just saying would have been nice to have pupils in the eyes. I under stand fully the reasons why the look for the show is and all that.

[Spider-ManHero12]

The eyes didn't bother me, they looked good on Peter. Agreed, the eyes are fine to me and fit perfectley with the rest of the art. :up:

[deathshead2]

Oh and Pete is like christian Bale now and has a mole on this face thats very distracting.

[LobokDaikon]

It could just be a freckle.

[Catman]

It could just be a freckle.

No, its a mole!

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee206/KissyTheSissy/mole.gif

[The Lizard]

"Night of the Lizard" was well animated, but it was the pilot and they usually are. The studios love to show off what they can do so they can sell the show.

If I remember correctly, "Night of the Lizard" was animated by Tokyo Movie Shinsha (TMS), a company with a reputation for high-quality animation. However, they must be pretty expensive, because a lot of well-known cartoons used them in the beginning of their runs (including Duck Tales, Bionic Six, Mighty Orbots, Inspector Gadget and others), but later on the animation for some of these dropped in quality because cheaper studios were used instead. This obviously happened with the 1990s Spider-Man, since the drop in animation quality happened pretty quickly.

[Road Warrior]

Mostly because I am tired of having to constantly type and re-type this in various threads. I have studied the animation industry for some time, and more than that, I have contacts in the industry who have been working there for decades. Writers, producers, story board artists and even voice actors. I don't work there myself, but I consider myself as much of an expert as one can be without actually working in it, though I hope that eventually changes.

Why does "The Spectacular Spider-Man" look the way it does? Why are the models so streamlined and stylized when we grew up with cartoons where the character models were very detailed?

The answer is this, it is easier to animate and to animate well. To those who keep on citing shows like "G.I. Joe", "He-Man", and other shows from that era, take off the nostalgia tinted glasses and go back and actually look at them. The character models look good when they are static, but the animation is really slow and lousy.

When Bruce Timm first set out to produce "Batman: The Animated Series", people complained about his streamlined character models, I know it might not seem like it considering how universally praised he is today, but it was not the case. Why did he do that? Because he knew you got better animation out of it. Less lines to draw means less lines to animate, especially on a TV budget.

If you want those detailed models and good animation, you need the budget of a feature length Disney movie, and even then it's still not a good idea.

When "Gargoyles" was in production, the character models were a lot more detailed. Frank Paur came in and streamlined them with artists in Japan, and the result was something beautiful. But, to those who still complain about "The Spectacular Spider-Man" not looking like this, I can guarantee you that "Gargoyles" had a much higher budget than "Spidey" does. Hell, look what happened in the third season when the budget was slashed, the models were the same, but the animation was painfully ugly to watch.

Now, Spider-Man is a character that moves. The fights are fast paced, the web slinging is fast paced, and the animation on this show is just fluid, fast and gorgeous. The aerial battle with the Vulture was breathtaking, especially for TV. Now, some will point out the Fox Kids series, but, well, honestly, look at it again. It was not all that well animated. It was full of bad CGI backgrounds, the color palette was not working, and the show was mostly stock footage. It just did not look good.

When you draw a comic book, you are drawing still images that don't have to move. You can add all the detail you want, as long as you meet your deadline. Animation doesn't have that luxury. Thousands of cells go into animating a twenty-two minute production. It is a long and grueling process, and the schedule is very tight.

It is easy to be an arm chair animation producer. Just because you watch a lot of it doesn't make you an expert. I've seen so many statements made on animation and "today's technology" coming from people who just don't know what they're talking about. It's not about being lazy. It's not about dumbing animation down. It's about producing the best animation they possibly can on a budget.

The problem isn't the animation itself. Its the designs. Other than that the show is pretty good.

[Sarcastic Fan]

The problem isn't the animation itself. Its the designs. Other than that the show is pretty good.

And my entire post was about why the designs are like that.

[Catman]

And my entire post was about why the designs are like that.

You never explained why they looked like Fisher-Price toys. :huh:

[Sarcastic Fan]

You never explained why they looked like Fisher-Price toys. :huh:

Because they don't look like Fisher Price toys. Can the hyperbole.

[Mikelus]

I agree with Sarcastic, thank you for creating this thread. ;)
I have to admit the designs are not my cup of tea, but the animation is very smooth and the stories are interesting so far, Greg Weisman is one of the best in the business.

Ps: Greg and co., please take that freckle/mole (whatever) out of Peter's face, and make those eyes smaller, thanks! :spidey: :cwink:

[Webhead2006]

actually really if they had pupils in their eyes it wouldnt look so bad. Take for example this manip i did.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/KodaGirlSK/pupileyes-1.jpg

[MaskedManJRK]

Meh--it isn't so wierd that it distracts me and it isn't stock footage, so it doesn't bother me.

[3dman27]

I think most of the complain comes from the fact that the characters look like something from Fisher-Price.

you noticed that too huh?
well you do have a show about a marvel super-hero on a network whose parent companyOWNS DC COMICS so you might expect this

[Visionary]

Nope, the simple drawn designs were intentional for fluid animation, it's what the producer/writer wanted. What part of that don't you people understand? This isn't meant to be designed like the comic books, and they're not changing it folks.

[The Lizard]

actually really if they had pupils in their eyes it wouldnt look so bad. Take for example this manip i did.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/KodaGirlSK/pupileyes-1.jpg

Yeah, the glassy eyes are the only thing that really distracts me about the stylized art. They really need pupils. It's not like it's hard to add pupils to digital animation either.

[Odin's Lapdog]

If I remember correctly, "Night of the Lizard" was animated by Tokyo Movie Shinsha (TMS), a company with a reputation for high-quality animation. However, they must be pretty expensive, because a lot of well-known cartoons used them in the beginning of their runs (including Duck Tales, Bionic Six, Mighty Orbots, Inspector Gadget and others), but later on the animation for some of these dropped in quality because cheaper studios were used instead. This obviously happened with the 1990s Spider-Man, since the drop in animation quality happened pretty quickly.damn straight

night of the lizard, turning point and armed and dangerous are some of the most beautifully animated shows i've ever seen

even the first one with the spider slayers where spidey's flipping around all over the place.

Back then they did a bargain and it was get in high quality eps first of all so those shots will stick in people's mind. Detailed animation with fluid movements.

and because of those few eps, they've managed to sucessfully carry the nostalgic weight of five whole series.

That's pretty damn impressive.

everyone always will remember those scenes and its because of them that spectacular is going to get a bum rep because they are ultimately doing it the smart way

[Odin's Lapdog]

actually really if they had pupils in their eyes it wouldnt look so bad. Take for example this manip i did.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w78/KodaGirlSK/pupileyes-1.jpg
pupils are an amazing addition

everyone on the cartoon looks like they are high on something.

especially harry with the addition of his retarded voice. Surely that will sort himself out when he starts going hardcore and becoming the goblin.

[Kamarov]

If I remember correctly, "Night of the Lizard" was animated by Tokyo Movie Shinsha (TMS), a company with a reputation for high-quality animation. However, they must be pretty expensive, because a lot of well-known cartoons used them in the beginning of their runs (including Duck Tales, Bionic Six, Mighty Orbots, Inspector Gadget and others), but later on the animation for some of these dropped in quality because cheaper studios were used instead. This obviously happened with the 1990s Spider-Man, since the drop in animation quality happened pretty quickly.

Well that explains it. Seriously, NOTL's quality was top notch and the quality just dropped.

[Kamarov]

damn straight

night of the lizard, turning point and armed and dangerous are some of the most beautifully animated shows i've ever seen



The first episode of hydroman can be added to that list too.

[Nathan]

I have nothing against streamlined animation, I just hate the kiddy designs they've went with.

[cerealkiller182]

Same here

Simplicity is fine, I love the Timm stuff, but the designs are awful. The only thing good about the show is Spideys voice and dialog

[Green Goblin 1964]

I have nothing against streamlined animation, I just hate the kiddy designs they've went with.Well, the stories make up for it....BIG TIME.

[Nathan]

Why can't we get both? Why can't we have decent looking characters and good stories? It's not like they can't. They already teased us with Electro that they can make characters look badass.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2546/e1yf8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

But instead of staying with that look, we get this.

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1900/e2az9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Green Goblin 1964]

Why can't we get both? Why can't we have decent looking characters and good stories? It's not like they can't. They already teased us with Electro that they can make characters look badass.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2546/e1yf8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

But instead of staying with that look, we get this.

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1900/e2az9.gif (http://imageshack.us)Well, IDK but it's better to stop f***ing complaining because your not getting it. So better to get used to it then to get all pissed and crap yourself when something doesn't go the way you would like to.


Just saying dude. Live with it or leave because we don't want to hear the b****ing.

[Webhead2006]

And in both pics they are the same style/look, just in most scenes he had the rounded chin and in the scene of the top pic had the more squared one.

[Nathan]

It's just a little change that would make the show so much easier on the eyes.

[Spider-ManHero12]

And in both pics they are the same style/look, just in most scenes he had the rounded chin and in the scene of the top pic had the more squared one. Exactly, and because it's at a different angle.

[Nathan]

I don't really think it's an angle issue. They drew Electro totally different on purpose. Come on, how do you go from big and round to small and angular just because of a slight angle change? But not only the chin, if you pay attention the black area around Electro's eyes isn't drawn as edgy as in the frontal shot, and no matter how mad he gets towards the end, he keeps his button eyes.

[Odin's Lapdog]

matsuda's designs aren't particularly lacking in detail and jackie chan's adventures is some of the most fluid animation i've seen in a long time

[Mikelus]

Nathan, we got your point, are you spamming? Repeating the same crap all over.... see, you whine about this and that, you're not perfect aren't you? I don't like the designs that much either, but I'm not going to whine the whole day about it, is just dumb and pointless.

[cerealkiller182]

Nathan, we got your point, are you spamming? Repeating the same crap all over.... see, you whine about this and that, you're not perfect aren't you? I don't like the designs that much either, but I'm not going to whine the whole day about it, is just dumb and pointless.

As if everyone defending the style isnt

:huh:

[UltimateJustin]

For the record, I think the character designs for B: TAS were great, the redesign for the Batman/Superman era were less cool but still fine. As with most people, its not an issue of not understanding that simplified designs animate well for me, so that epic ballad you wrote was pretty pointless, just that people dont understand why they would go with weird weeble character models instead of just simplified designs a ala jackie chan. Of course it doesn't matter much now because I think most people are getting used to it.

[Arkady Rossovich]

Why does "The Spectacular Spider-Man" look the way it does? Why are the models so streamlined and stylized when we grew up with cartoons where the character models were very detailed?

The answer is this, it is easier to animate and to animate well.

It's not about being lazy. It's not about dumbing animation down. It's about producing the best animation they possibly can on a budget.

I edited the post,to put these in. It makes sense,but I wish my questions would be answered also. What was the budget of Spider-Man:TAS? Because if I read this post..then TAS had more animation quality than this show.

This is not TAS,it's a shame. Because I just want to see something like that again. Besides,I doubt this show will last long. LOSH only had 2 seasons.

:liz:

I just hate the kiddy designs they've went with.

Your not alone. I'm the same way.

[Sarcastic Fan]

I edited the post,to put these in. It makes sense,but I wish my questions would be answered also. What was the budget of Spider-Man:TAS? Because if I read this post..then TAS had more animation quality than this show.

This is not TAS,it's a shame. Because I just want to see something like that again. Besides,I doubt this show will last long. LOSH only had 2 seasons.


Dude, Spider-Man: TAS had more detailed models, but crappy animation and was 70% stock footage. You want to see THAT again?

[Green Goblin 1964]

Dude, Spider-Man: TAS had more detailed models, but crappy animation and was 70% stock footage. You want to see THAT again?
He hated the show from the get-go. What's new? :whatever:


Answer: Get out of the f***ing 90's.

[UltimateJustin]

If SSM does get cancelled, which it probably will, I'll more or less be happy about it. Its a shame TAS didn't have the budget to deliver consistent animation, but at least it tried. And for trying, it will be remembered for a long time where this show will only live on in the minds of people who pretend to know about animation and big old button enthusiests. Hurrmmm.

[Sarcastic Fan]

If SSM does get cancelled, which it probably will, I'll more or less be happy about it. Its a shame TAS didn't have the budget to deliver consistent animation, but at least it tried. And for trying, it will be remembered for a long time where this show will only live on in the minds of people who pretend to know about animation and big old button enthusiests. Hurrmmm.

Right... I'm only pretending to know. You caught me. /sarcasm

Just come out and call me a liar, come on, say it.

[Prefix]

If SSM does get cancelled, which it probably will, I'll more or less be happy about it. Its a shame TAS didn't have the budget to deliver consistent animation, but at least it tried. And for trying, it will be remembered for a long time where this show will only live on in the minds of people who pretend to know about animation and big old button enthusiests. Hurrmmm.Alright then. Go away and don't come back. Obviously you are too good for us, and since you don't like the show, you won't watch it again. So you won't have anything to discuss.

But you won't. You'll watch every episode. And you'll be back here, complaining. Again and again and again.

So who wins here? The people that enjoy this show, or the guy that hates the show but watches it and complains about it week after week?

[Green Goblin 1964]

^qftgdmtft

[Prefix]

Hey guys, animation should be more like it was in the old days! You know, like this!

http://nesser.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/transformers.jpg

Oh wait. That's stiff, boring and outdated. :dry:

[Green Goblin 1964]

Pwned.

[Nathan]

This is the standard today's cartoons should aspire. Great designs and still fluid.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7087/ava247jx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4204/ava248su8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5711/ava8lt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[spida-man]

Great post, Sarcastic Fan. :up:

Everybody draws differently. Sean "Cheeks" Galloway draws his own style and he draws the way he likes to. He doesn't add much detail, but it still looks fantastic. Why is that such a bad thing?
agreed, and i look at it this way, if i can handle Hamberto Ramos' work, I can handle Sean's work

[spida-man]

Pwned.
i hate that guy, his reaction to stuff in marvel fits his title"decomposing" in other words dead, it doesn't mean jack schitt, frist things related to SM3 and now this.
if he wants to make retarded jokes about someone creating a negative character now he might as well go all the way back to when Marvel came up with THE NEGATIVE ZONE.

[Green Goblin 1964]

i hate that guy, his reaction to stuff in marvel fits his title"decomposing" in other words dead, it doesn't mean jack schitt, frist things related to SM3 and now this.
if he wants to make retarded jokes about someone creating a negative character now he might as well go all the way back to when Marvel came up with THE NEGATIVE ZONE.
Let's stay on topic please.

[spida-man]

Let's stay on topic please.
sorry,
anyways i think the animation for the spectacular spider-man is awesome.

[UltimateJustin]

I don't hate the show, I'm just not d-riding it like some young lovers out there. I just want it cancelled real soon so that Weisman will be remembered only for Gargoyles and Winx.

A show that I think is totally awful is Transformers: Animated, and I watch it never and posted in the forum prior to it airing and then one time after I finally caught an episode. In fact, SSM is one the best animated series on TV, and by that I of course mean the only tolerable one.

I like that dcompose gentleman but his eyes go too far into his skull.

[Sarcastic Fan]

I don't hate the show, I'm just not d-riding it like some young lovers out there. I just want it cancelled real soon so that Weisman will be remembered only for Gargoyles and Winx.

A show that I think is totally awful is Transformers: Animated, and I watch it never and posted in the forum prior to it airing and then one time after I finally caught an episode. In fact, SSM is one the best animated series on TV, and by that I of course mean the only tolerable one.

I like that dcompose gentleman but his eyes go too far into his skull.

::Checks bio:: Oh, I see... you're 14. No wonder your posts are immature and make no sense.

Greg worked on WITCH. Not Winx.

Oh, and I want this show to continue, it's doing well, and more important than him being remembered just for "Gargoyles", he'll be able to feed and provide for his family.

Grow up, kid.

[Spider-ManHero12]

If SSM does get cancelled, which it probably will, I'll more or less be happy about it. Its a shame TAS didn't have the budget to deliver consistent animation, but at least it tried. And for trying, it will be remembered for a long time where this show will only live on in the minds of people who pretend to know about animation and big old button enthusiests. Hurrmmm. I completely disagree. I don't see how this show will be cancelled when it's doing so well and so many people, including me, love it. Just go check all the votes on the opinions of episodes. Also, Sarcastic Fan knows people and about animation, trust me. Calling him a liar is a 100% wrong thing to do.

[Web-Head]

I don't hate the show, I'm just not d-riding it like some young lovers out there. I just want it cancelled real soon so that Weisman will be remembered only for Gargoyles and Winx.

A show that I think is totally awful is Transformers: Animated, and I watch it never and posted in the forum prior to it airing and then one time after I finally caught an episode. In fact, SSM is one the best animated series on TV, and by that I of course mean the only tolerable one.

I like that dcompose gentleman but his eyes go too far into his skull.
The ratings are going through the roof, dude. There's no way they'd cancell a big sucess.

[Webhead2006]

yea only thing we have to worry about is a season 3 getting made under 4kids. But its to early to worry about anything with 4kids taking control in the fall.

[UltimateJustin]

::Checks bio:: Oh, I see... you're 14. No wonder your posts are immature and make no sense.

Greg worked on WITCH. Not Winx.

Oh, and I want this show to continue, it's doing well, and more important than him being remembered just for "Gargoyles", he'll be able to feed and provide for his family.

Grow up, kid.
WITCH, Winx, they were both badass. I'm sure the Weis Man can provide for his family even if SSM got cancelled, I mean even Vince Russo managed to do that. I hope the show goes on long enough without 4kids intrusion to see some of the love triangle aspects that can cause possible entertainment value. I wonder if we'll ever even get to see Pete kiss Gwen or Harry onscreen.

[Sarcastic Fan]

WITCH, Winx, they were both badass. I'm sure the Weis Man can provide for his family even if SSM got cancelled, I mean even Vince Russo managed to do that. I hope the show goes on long enough without 4kids intrusion to see some of the love triangle aspects that can cause possible entertainment value. I wonder if we'll ever even get to see Pete kiss Gwen or Harry onscreen.

I can't understand a word you're trying to say.

Also, you're contradicting himself. In one post, you say you want the show canceled so that Greg will be remembered only for "Gargoyles" and now you say that you want the show to go on long enough without 4-Kids intruding.

Put the crack pipe down.

[Green Goblin 1964]

::Checks bio:: Oh, I see... you're 14. No wonder your posts are immature and make no sense.

Greg worked on WITCH. Not Winx.

Oh, and I want this show to continue, it's doing well, and more important than him being remembered just for "Gargoyles", he'll be able to feed and provide for his family.

Grow up, kid.

Double pwned. Lol J/K -_-

[Ratcrawler]

Hey guys, animation should be more like it was in the old days! You know, like this!

http://nesser.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/transformers.jpg

Oh wait. That's stiff, boring and outdated. :dry:

I'd agree if the new Optimus Prime didn't look retarded and little more fluid than the original. Seriously, that Teen Titans style isn't doing the Transformers any favors. Most movement on that show is an exaggerated version of the whiplash effect seen in 300 drawn in front of swishing colors Pokemon is so well known for.

[Prefix]

I'd agree if the new Optimus Prime didn't look retarded and little more fluid than the original. Seriously, that Teen Titans style isn't doing the Transformers any favors. Most movement on that show is an exaggerated version of the whiplash effect seen in 300 drawn in front of swishing colors Pokemon is so well known for.That's funny, because I've heard it being praised for not resorting to that technique.

[UltimateJustin]

I can't understand a word you're trying to say.

Also, you're contradicting himself. In one post, you say you want the show canceled so that Greg will be remembered only for "Gargoyles" and now you say that you want the show to go on long enough without 4-Kids intruding.

Put the crack pipe down.
I changed my mind. I went through alot of character development this weekend. Sorry for being difficult to understand and contradicting himself, linguistics master.

[Sarcastic Fan]

I changed my mind. I went through alot of character development this weekend. Sorry for being difficult to understand and contradicting himself, linguistics master.

Whoops, horrible typo. Hate when that happens.

[UltimateJustin]

Whoops, horrible typo. Hate when that happens.
Oh well, as they say its alot better to make a typo on a message board than to accidentally feel up your sister at a party.

[Green Goblin 1964]

....wtf...

[Arkady Rossovich]

This is the standard today's cartoons should aspire. Great designs and still fluid.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7087/ava247jx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4204/ava248su8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5711/ava8lt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's what I mean. You can have both. You do not have to sacrifice anything. Just spend a bit more,you get a bit more.

He hated the show from the get-go. What's new?


Answer: Get out of the f***ing 90's.

Get your head out of your butt. I've seen some of the posts you have made,it's like your trying to shout to the world that this is the best ever and not everyone thinks that. So stop trying to magically make the show last forever,when chances are..it won't last that long. Like I said LOSH only lasted for 2 seasons.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Here's a fact. I don't know how long it'll lasts, you don't know how long it'll last, he doesn't know how long it'll last. So let's stop saying either way how long it will, and just let the show go on and hope for the best (or worst if you're so inclinded).

And as for the spending a little more argument, you do realize the people actually making the show have no control over what the budget their given is, right?

[UltimateJustin]

Here's a fact. I don't know how long it'll lasts, you don't know how long it'll last, he doesn't know how long it'll last. So let's stop saying either way how long it will, and just let the show go on and hope for the best (or worst if you're so inclinded).

And as for the spending a little more argument, you do realize the people actually making the show have no control over what the budget their given is, right?
How come Greg Weisman has the toys costing $10 though is what I want to know about it.

[Sarcastic Fan]

How come Greg Weisman has the toys costing $10 though is what I want to know about it.

Greg Weisman has nothing to do with the merchandise.

[spida-man]

Question: why do ppl still think that 4KidsTV could screw with SS-M when we have already discussed(numerous times) thatthe deal that the CW and $kids made WILL NOT effect The SS-M

[Webhead2006]

but who knows what 4kids could do to the show if/when during season 2 airs and it is picked up for a 3rd season and/or more. I just hope they cant have any creative control over the show and screw with their plans/ censor the show more and all that.