Is The Joker Hype reaching ridiculously high expectations?

[Batman jr.]

The dancing was stupid but TM as parker/spidey was great no matter how dissapointing SM3 was he perfectly portrayed the nerdish aspects of the character he wasnt your typical hero who once they become a hero they are virtually omnipotent in their universe.

Did you went to college for that?

SM3 perfectly portrayed the fact that Rami should've sticked mainly to horrormovies, even though the first two SM's weren't bad, and that superhermovies can be for unborn babies too.

[Gianakin_]

SM3 actually portrayed the fact that when you're a producer and a director makes 2 successsful (critically and financially) movies for you, you let him do his stuff and don't shove characters and storylines up his a$$.

[Kabuki_Jo]

SM3 actually portrayed the fact that when you're a producer and a director makes 2 successsful (critically and financially) movies for you, you let him do his stuff and don't shove characters and storylines up his a$$.

Agree.
Damn Avi Arad!

[Damiean Dark]

Was SM3 that bad though? it was dissapointing compared to the previous two yes, but compared to the likes of ghostrider, Electra ect it is a pretty good movie and one that is to easily blasted by some people.

[Batman jr.]

Was SM3 that bad though? it was dissapointing compared to the previous two yes, but compared to the likes of ghostrider, Electra ect it is a pretty good movie and one that is to easily blasted by some people.

I must say that ghostrider was very bad, absolutely.

[Gianakin_]

Was SM3 that bad though? it was dissapointing compared to the previous two yes, but compared to the likes of ghostrider, Electra ect it is a pretty good movie and one that is to easily blasted by some people.

100% agreed.
It was a fun addition to the Spidey mythos imo, it just didn't live up to it's potential (not hype).

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

SM3 actually portrayed the fact that when you're a producer and a director makes 2 successsful (critically and financially) movies for you, you let him do his stuff and don't shove characters and storylines up his a$$.

I agree, Raimi couldve made the film alot better if he didnt have Arad shoving ideas down his throat, Marvel tends to ruin good things alot these days.

[StylishHokie21]

Was SM3 that bad though? it was dissapointing compared to the previous two yes, but compared to the likes of ghostrider, Electra ect it is a pretty good movie and one that is to easily blasted by some people.

I actually agree with you for once.

[ironwez20]

spiderman 3 wasnt bad its just people thought venom was going to be in the movie for a while even though everybody knew he wasnt, jokers the main character people wont be dissapointed

[Franky4Fingers]

All of this hype will be quite embarrassing once they reveal the real joker is AMH....joking..joking.

[El Payaso]

SM3 was horrible, but not only because of Venom but because of those shameful dancing scenes and poor jokes. Then we have the poor development for characters like Sandman and Eddie Brock. The Peter being "evil" by asking for cookies and milk (and mocking secretly at Dr. Connors by phone). Some one talked about the worst superhero film list? Yes, SM3 belongs there. The good action was not enough.

[Infinity9999x]

SM3 was horrible, but not only because of Venom but because of those shameful dancing scenes and poor jokes. Then we have the poor development for characters like Sandman and Eddie Brock. The Peter being "evil" by asking for cookies and milk (and mocking secretly at Dr. Connors by phone). Some one talked about the worst superhero film list? Yes, SM3 belongs there. The good action was not enough.

That's completely ridiculous. It was no where near a Batman and Robin, Return of the Swamp thing, Supergirl, GhostRider, Catwoman, Steel, Captain America, Electra, Superman III or IV, Daredevil, Howard the Duck, the 1994 Fantastic Four, the 1980's Punisher, or Ninja Turtles 3 *edited for JokerGrayson*

To say Spider-man 3 belongs on that list is incredulous. Some people need to learn the difference between disappointing and actual quality. Just because Spider-man was a huge disappointment does not make it one of the worst comic movies, it only makes it one of the most disappointing.

[DaddyGrayson]

That's completely ridiculous. It was no where near a Batman and Robin, Return of the Swamp thing, Supergirl, GhostRider, Catwoman, Steel, Captain America, Electra, Superman III or IV, Daredevil, Howard the Duck, the 1994 Fantastic Four, the 1980's Punisher, or Ninja Turtles 2.

To say Spider-man 3 belongs on that list is incredulous. Some people need to learn the difference between disappointing and actual quality. Just because Spider-man was a huge disappointment does not make it one of the worst comic movies, it only makes it one of the most disappointing.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I agree with all of this until you mention Ninja Turtles 2! Turtles 2 was the ****!

[Crook]

Go Ninja, Go Ninja, Go!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Occasions/017.gif

[DaddyGrayson]

Go Ninja, Go Ninja, Go!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Occasions/017.gif

QFT

[Infinity9999x]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I agree with all of this until you mention Ninja Turtles 2! Turtles 2 was the ****!

Yeah, that was the only one I thought twice about before putting it on there. But c'mon, they only used their weapons like once.

Though, to be fair, I think I did enjoy NT2 more then Men In Black 2, but I was a lot younger when Turtles came out then MIB2 came out, so I put Turtles on there.

I haven't seen NT2 in a while though, so I'd have to watch it again. I suppose I can take that one off there, I guess it is kind of mean to put it next to Catwoman or Supergirl in the same sentence.

[The Joker]

SM3 was horrible, but not only because of Venom but because of those shameful dancing scenes and poor jokes. Then we have the poor development for characters like Sandman and Eddie Brock. The Peter being "evil" by asking for cookies and milk (and mocking secretly at Dr. Connors by phone). Some one talked about the worst superhero film list? Yes, SM3 belongs there. The good action was not enough.

I agree!

[DaddyGrayson]

Yeah, that was the only one I thought twice about before putting it on there. But c'mon, they only used their weapons like once.

Though, to be fair, I think I did enjoy NT2 more then Men In Black 2, but I was a lot younger when Turtles came out then MIB2 came out, so I put Turtles on there.

I haven't seen NT2 in a while though, so I'd have to watch it again. I suppose I can take that one off there, I guess it is kind of mean to put it next to Catwoman or Supergirl in the same sentence.

Put Turtles 3... now that one sucked!

[Infinity9999x]

Put Turtles 3... now that one sucked!

Oh yeah, I completely forgot that one.

[GlasgowBat]

i really don't think spiderman 3 was much better than those listed there.

it lacked significant character development, had a simplistic and weak story riddled with plot holes and often veered off into bizarre moments of camp madness(yes, the dancing)

[Damiean Dark]

Turtles 2 was kind of like SM3 for me a entertaining movie but very dissapointing compared to the first movie.

[Damiean Dark]

The shredder being reduced to a bellowing idiot in compariso to the ice cold ninja master of TMNT1 who walked through the turles was soooooooooooooo dissapointing for me.

[CaptainClown]

Again SM3 wasn't bad, but it was probably one of the greatest disappointments of the superhero movies.

[ultimatefan]

Jesus, I go to a TDK thread and I have to go through three pages of people talking Spider-Man 3... That movie DOES have its own board, you know.

[CaptainClown]

well if you want to talk about TDK, then talk about TDK and get the convo back on track

[Eggyman]

Also, it's a very good example to be using in this thread.

[ultimatefan]

that last point is going to be a problem. i think it will be nigh-impossible to judge the performance without considering ledger's passing.

what worries me the most is that, should he be really praised by the majority of critics and, more importantly, the ordinary joe public, then there will be certain groups of "film fanatics" that will disregard the whole thing as praising a dead guy. unfortunately, i feel this is very likely to happen.

this type of thinking may be the only thing between ledger and an academy nomination, should his performance be as good as we have heard. i wish i could lower my expectations of ledger's joker, and the film in general, but i find such a task very difficult.

I know what you mean, just the symbolism of it being his last completed performance - I know there´s the Gilliam movie, but in that one they´re doing a little "cheating" to make up for his death - is overwhelming... But well, if it´s awesome in its own right anyway, maybe it won´t be too blown out of proportion.

[CaptainClown]

Ya

Spiderman 3

Star Wars pretriology

SR

They had huge expectations and most people would agree that they were no where up to par.

[BatmanFanatic]

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Heiths take on the Joker.

I know it will be very different from my own conception of the character and from what we have seen others do so far. Even though I think of Jack and Mark as legendary jokers, I know I'm going to be getting something very different, and twisted, and a lot less "comical" and because I've already had the experience of seeing great iconic joker performances that have stood the test of time in BTAS and B89 then I don't have any problem with whatever Heith wants to do.

Do I think it deserves an Oscar nod? Well I think for the first time there is a possibility if the movie is amazing and Heith does an incredible job for a Batman film to get a performance Oscar - Heith was already loved by the academy and people respect him as an actor, plus there will be the doubtless sympathy. But whether or not that happens doesn't really matter to me personally, it's only an award. I would much rather that he had gone on to do another 20 or 30 films and had a full career to grow and develop, as it is this will be his last complete role and I respect whatever he does with it, keeping that in mind.

[CaptainClown]

Speaking of Oscar nod; I think that is also going to be one of TDK's biggest fall because people are going to be expecting something amazing. When I say amazing I mean like this thing will cure cancer. Oscar talk was alright in small doses but I have a feeling since just about everyone who sees this hypes the hell out of it (possibly because of his death) that a group is going to be disappointed with it, expecting a performance to change their life.

[BatmanFanatic]

Speaking of Oscar nod; I think that is also going to be one of TDK's biggest fall because people are going to be expecting something amazing. When I say amazing I mean like this thing will cure cancer. Oscar talk was alright in small doses but I have a feeling since just about everyone who sees this hypes the hell out of it (possibly because of his death) that a group is going to be disappointed with it, expecting a performance to change their life.

Okay but getting an Oscar and curring cancer are on completely different levels don't you think? A bunch of movies get Oscars every single year! In fact, they have to hand them out somewhere, even if that year was a bad year for movies!

So it's not like it's beyond the realm of all possibility that TDK will get an Oscar nod. Especially when one of the stars has already been recognized by the academy and was very popular in Hollywood.

And as far as performances that change your life... well few movies have the power to change everyones life that sees them, but there are films that become so personal to you that they stick with you forever. I've never really gotten over seeing Shindlers List or Shawshank Redeption for instance. I don't think TDK will be on that level, but I think it may be on par with some of the greatest summer blockbuster films in recent history.

And I know that when I went with people to see the Matrix for instance, we were so blown away and amazed and inspired that it was "life changing." It was very powerful because of how it handled themes of individual power and overcoming "the system" ... it didn't need to be worthy of Oscars for acting in order to really move people with it's message and a healthy dose of action-packed-fun.

[ultimatefan]

Ya

Spiderman 3

Star Wars pretriology

SR

They had huge expectations and most people would agree that they were no where up to par.

The expectations for SR weren´t so huge, at least for a lot of the hardcore fanboys, they were more like hating everything about it before they saw a single piece of footage.

[CaptainClown]

Okay but getting an Oscar and curring cancer are on completely different levels don't you think? A bunch of movies get Oscars every single year! In fact, they have to hand them out somewhere, even if that year was a bad year for movies!

So it's not like it's beyond the realm of all possibility that TDK will get an Oscar nod. Especially when one of the stars has already been recognized by the academy and was very popular in Hollywood.

And as far as performances that change your life... well few movies have the power to change everyones life that sees them, but there are films that become so personal to you that they stick with you forever. I've never really gotten over seeing Shindlers List or Shawshank Redeption for instance. I don't think TDK will be on that level, but I think it may be on par with some of the greatest summer blockbuster films in recent history.

And I know that when I went with people to see the Matrix for instance, we were so blown away and amazed and inspired that it was "life changing." It was very powerful because of how it handled themes of individual power and overcoming "the system" ... it didn't need to be worthy of Oscars for acting in order to really move people with it's message and a healthy dose of action-packed-fun.
Curing cancer was just a form of explaining the level of hype. The way it is beginning to sound is that this movie is a godsend. Also the usually attitude that goes a long with Oscars is that this is really good. Seldomly do people think (well in my experience) Oscars with best movie that year.

Also I never said that it is not possible or not probable that TDK might not get an Oscar nomination, but using the criteria before Oscar = something really good and making this prediction before the movie came out sets a really high standard.

And as far as performances that change your life... well few movies have the power to change everyones life that sees them, but there are films that become so personal to you that they stick with you forever. I've never really gotten over seeing Shindlers List or Shawshank Redeption for instance. I don't think TDK will be on that level, but I think it may be on par with some of the greatest summer blockbuster films in recent history. Any movie can change someone on a personal level. Unfortunately you took my "this movie will change your life" saying too literally. It was meant as people will be saying that this movie is a "MUST SEE" and are going to rally a whole group of people expecting to be amazed.
There are going to be a whole lot of hardcore fans out there encouraging people generally not interested into seeing this movie because it is "amazing and Oscar worthy"

I will use the instance of Transformers with me personally. I didn't really have a desire to see Transformers. I waited weeks until after it came out and was bombarded with "Breathtaking, best action movie in a long time, talks of an oscar for special effects..etc" My friend encouraged me to go see it, so I went. I was really disappointed and I know I wasn't the only one. That is what I predict will happen with TDK and the way the hype is.

[CaptainClown]

The expectations for SR weren´t so huge, at least for a lot of the hardcore fanboys, they were more like hating everything about it before they saw a single piece of footage.
I was mostly speaking from my own experience. I remember many of my friends saying "OMG SINGER!" and they kept with an old formula (the old superman films) so they felt that this movie could do no wrong. But ya SR isn't necessarily up there, but it still was a great disappointment because...honestly how hard is it to make a superman movie?

[BatmanFanatic]

Well... okay... but what are you worried about? A bunch of people who aren't relaly Batman fans will be cajoled into seeing TDK because of rabid fans who think it needs an Oscar, and then those non-fans will be annoyed that they didn't get an Oscar-worthy film for their $10? I think the explosions alone will be worth the ticket price, and even if it turns out to be not as good as the hype and some people aren't happy, what's really the big deal? It's just the cost of a ticket. We take that risk every time we see a film in the theaters.

It's not like TDK hype is about to overthrow a government or be instrumental in choosing the next leader of the free world.

[CaptainClown]

Well... okay... but what are you worried about? A bunch of people who aren't relaly Batman fans will be cajoled into seeing TDK because of rabid fans who think it needs an Oscar, and then those non-fans will be annoyed that they didn't get an Oscar-worthy film for their $10? I think the explosions alone will be worth the ticket price, and even if it turns out to be not as good as the hype and some people aren't happy, what's really the big deal? It's just the cost of a ticket. We take that risk every time we see a film in the theaters.

It's not like TDK hype is about to overthrow a government or be instrumental in choosing the next leader of the free world.
I think what I am more worried about that this Hype is going to make TDK sound like a better movie then it is. As much as I am a fan of Batman and this series I would rather people call it for what it is then declare its the Citizen Kane of the 21st century.
I also don't want this hype to take out a huge demographic of people who aren't up to date with all TDK stuff and only hear information from fans saying "Heaths Joker is going to be getting an Oscar, the first Oscar for a superhero movie" I mean the movie isn't out and people are expecting to be taken to Narnia and back.

[Crook]

I will use the instance of Transformers with me personally. I didn't really have a desire to see Transformers. I waited weeks until after it came out and was bombarded with "Breathtaking, best action movie in a long time, talks of an oscar for special effects..etc" My friend encouraged me to go see it, so I went. I was really disappointed and I know I wasn't the only one. That is what I predict will happen with TDK and the way the hype is.
Well I'm afraid you were in the minority for that film. :oldrazz:

As for the action, yes I will say that it's been unmatched from what I've seen these past few years. And the sfx oscars were robbed of them. Everyone knows it.

[CaptainClown]

Well I'm afraid you were in the minority for that film. :oldrazz:

As for the action, yes I will say that it's been unmatched from what I've seen these past few years. And the sfx oscars were robbed of them. Everyone knows it.
I don't know the transformers seemed to fluctuate in size, as well as those glasses with the map on it.
Also the action seemed more nauseating but ya thats why I am in that minority.

I would say that Cloverfield is a better SFX movie then Transformers, but eh oh well.

[BatmanFanatic]

I think what I am more worried about that this Hype is going to make TDK sound like a better movie then it is. As much as I am a fan of Batman and this series I would rather people call it for what it is then declare its the Citizen Kane of the 21st century.
I also don't want this hype to take out a huge demographic of people who aren't up to date with all TDK stuff and only hear information from fans saying "Heaths Joker is going to be getting an Oscar, the first Oscar for a superhero movie" I mean the movie isn't out and people are expecting to be taken to Narnia and back.

Yes, but again, even if all that was true, whats really the big deal? Maybe some people are expecting too much... maybe some people really think they will go to Narnia and back... and maybe they won't have that kind of experience with the film... but whats the harm in being happy and excited and hopeful for months waiting for it? Anticipation is the best part. Certainly it's not going to be so horrible as to leave people disgusted because Nolan is a great director. Even if it were a little disapointing on some levels to hardcore fans, it's not like these people are going to go jump off a bridge because of disapointment after they see it.

So I don't see any harm in any of what you're saying. Even if people are excited, even if they are unreasonably excited... even if they end up being wrong... so what? Every year millions of football fans get unreasonably excited for the Superbowl. They make an enormous fuss and throw huge parties and invite all their friends and expect to have their minds blown by how amazing of a Superbowl game they will see. Some years that Superbowl game is completely boring and disapointing for everyone. But none the less suggesting that we should just stop getting hyped up for Superbowl parties would never pass. Because rallying together to get excited about something is most of the fun, whether or not the game actually turns out to be worth it.

Like right now I'm thinking about all the people who've been really keeping up with the viral games for TDK. Dressing up as the Joker and taking pictures out by famous landmarks, chasing around for clues, messaging their friends, trying to decode things... they are having a ton of fun and making great memories. They're not going to look back at all that and go "Oh well, because I didn't like the Joker performance, I'm so upset that I spent all that time talking to my friends about TDK, calling Joker on my cell phone, getting secret scoops from the set, downloading cast sheets and IMAX preview and playing the viral game and getting excited about TDK. I wish I could have all that time back!"

So yah, people are really excited. Maybe they'll be a bit disapointed, maybe they wont be. Either way, it's fine. Having fun waiting is worth it.

[Solidus]

I think what I am more worried about that this Hype is going to make TDK sound like a better movie then it is. As much as I am a fan of Batman and this series I would rather people call it for what it is then declare its the Citizen Kane of the 21st century.
I also don't want this hype to take out a huge demographic of people who aren't up to date with all TDK stuff and only hear information from fans saying "Heaths Joker is going to be getting an Oscar, the first Oscar for a superhero movie" I mean the movie isn't out and people are expecting to be taken to Narnia and back.

All big movies get over hyped, by fans. Its natural. That does not mean TDK is going to be bad. I think there is always people that want it to be bad but oh well.

I remember in 2000 with LOTR. Man there was so much hype, I felt the same way, is this too much hype? I mean come on, a movie with Dragons and wizards to get oscars HAH! Though LOTR are my fav books I was a little concerned of such early talk of greatness. And look what happened. They are considered classics by most.

Sometimes I feel that some movies you can just feel are going to be really good. I guess a lot of that with TDK. I get hyped for few movies, but usually the ones I do I love to death, yea there has been a few stinkers in there. But I just think the fans are now getting too worried about the hype. Almost like you guys have never been in a forum waiting for a big movie before. It is usually like this.

[CaptainClown]

Yes, but again, even if all that was true, whats really the big deal? Maybe some people are expecting too much... maybe some people really think they will go to Narnia and back... and maybe they won't have that kind of experience with the film... but whats the harm in being happy and excited and hopeful for months waiting for it? Anticipation is the best part. Certainly it's not going to be so horrible as to leave people disgusted because Nolan is a great director. Even if it were a little disapointing on some levels to hardcore fans, it's not like these people are going to go jump off a bridge because of disapointment after they see it.

So I don't see any harm in any of what you're saying. Even if people are excited, even if they are unreasonably excited... even if they end up being wrong... so what? Every year millions of football fans get unreasonably excited for the Superbowl. They make an enormous fuss and throw huge parties and invite all their friends and expect to have their minds blown by how amazing of a Superbowl game they will see. Some years that Superbowl game is completely boring and disapointing for everyone. But none the less suggesting that we should just stop getting hyped up for Superbowl parties would never pass. Because rallying together to get excited about something is most of the fun, whether or not the game actually turns out to be worth it.

Like right now I'm thinking about all the people who've been really keeping up with the viral games for TDK. Dressing up as the Joker and taking pictures out by famous landmarks, chasing around for clues, messaging their friends, trying to decode things... they are having a ton of fun and making great memories. They're not going to look back at all that and go "Oh well, because I didn't like the Joker performance, I'm so upset that I spent all that time talking to my friends about TDK, calling Joker on my cell phone, getting secret scoops from the set, downloading cast sheets and IMAX preview and playing the viral game and getting excited about TDK. I wish I could have all that time back!"

So yah, people are really excited. Maybe they'll be a bit disapointed, maybe they wont be. Either way, it's fine. Having fun waiting is worth it.
My overall deal with this hype is the atmosphere it sets and the attitude afterwards that comes from a movie with that kind of hype it makes watching the movie for me less enjoyable and twice as annoying to hear legions of people saying "Unlike all the sheep I DIDN'T like TDK" The whole anti conformist backlash that comes from a movie with insane hype is bothersome and just annoying. Then once the movie will come out there will be the blind loyalists and then the fad of hating the movie. Now that go to school with people like that it in the end bothers me. That is why I hate all this hype

[CaptainClown]

All big movies get over hyped, by fans. Its natural. That does not mean TDK is going to be bad. I think there is always people that want it to be bad but oh well.

I remember in 2000 with LOTR. Man there was so much hype, I felt the same way, is this too much hype? I mean come on, a movie with Dragons and wizards to get oscars HAH! Though LOTR are my fav books I was a little concerned of such early talk of greatness. And look what happened. They are considered classics by most.

Sometimes I feel that some movies you can just feel are going to be really good. I guess a lot of that with TDK. I get hyped for few movies, but usually the ones I do I love to death, yea there has been a few stinkers in there. But I just think the fans are now getting too worried about the hype. Almost like you guys have never been in a forum waiting for a big movie before. It is usually like this.
It isn't as much about the hype, I suppose it is more about the predictable attitude that comes with the hype.

[CaptainClown]

I think Across the Universe was another disappointing movie because of being over hyped.

[Solidus]

I think Across the Universe was another disappointing movie because of being over hyped.

I understand the fear. But to me its nothing to be afraid about. I don't think movies are recieved bad because they are over hyped, I think that if they are subpar, they are subpar. Everyone has their own expectations, even if they verbally announce it or not.

Not all super hyped movies end up bad. And regardless of hype, every movie gets a group of haters, because they want to feel different.

[CaptainClown]

I understand the fear. But to me its nothing to be afraid about. I don't think movies are recieved bad because they are over hyped, I think that if they are subpar, they are subpar. Everyone has their own expectations, even if they verbally announce it or not.

Not all super hyped movies end up bad. And regardless of hype, every movie gets a group of haters, because they want to feel different.
Ya, I know what I want is more ideal then reality; but here is for hoping.

[Franky4Fingers]

Yes, but again, even if all that was true, whats really the big deal? Maybe some people are expecting too much... maybe some people really think they will go to Narnia and back... and maybe they won't have that kind of experience with the film... but whats the harm in being happy and excited and hopeful for months waiting for it? Anticipation is the best part. Certainly it's not going to be so horrible as to leave people disgusted because Nolan is a great director. Even if it were a little disapointing on some levels to hardcore fans, it's not like these people are going to go jump off a bridge because of disapointment after they see it.

So I don't see any harm in any of what you're saying. Even if people are excited, even if they are unreasonably excited... even if they end up being wrong... so what? Every year millions of football fans get unreasonably excited for the Superbowl. They make an enormous fuss and throw huge parties and invite all their friends and expect to have their minds blown by how amazing of a Superbowl game they will see. Some years that Superbowl game is completely boring and disapointing for everyone. But none the less suggesting that we should just stop getting hyped up for Superbowl parties would never pass. Because rallying together to get excited about something is most of the fun, whether or not the game actually turns out to be worth it.

Like right now I'm thinking about all the people who've been really keeping up with the viral games for TDK. Dressing up as the Joker and taking pictures out by famous landmarks, chasing around for clues, messaging their friends, trying to decode things... they are having a ton of fun and making great memories. They're not going to look back at all that and go "Oh well, because I didn't like the Joker performance, I'm so upset that I spent all that time talking to my friends about TDK, calling Joker on my cell phone, getting secret scoops from the set, downloading cast sheets and IMAX preview and playing the viral game and getting excited about TDK. I wish I could have all that time back!"

So yah, people are really excited. Maybe they'll be a bit disapointed, maybe they wont be. Either way, it's fine. Having fun waiting is worth it.

Great post:applaud

[BatmanFanatic]

Well one thing you can assume for sure, with this movie or any other, is some people will love it and some people will not. Some people will say they didn't like it even if they enjoyed it just because they want to have fun bashing something that everyone else loved - they get off on being trolls.

Whatever the general public reaction to the film however, what really matters is how YOU feel about it. I mean, there might be a movie everyone else thinks is terrible, if I love it I'll curl up with a bowl of popcorn and blissfully watch it all by myself on Friday night. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

As for TDK I'm going to see it with a bunch of people who are either big Batman fans, or who are positive about Nolans work, so I'm not going to hear any stupid comments from ignorant people after the film to ruin the experience. If there is criticism in the group about the movie, I know it will be fair and balanced. And then afterwards I can come on here to the boards and yak for hours about it with other fans... so it's all good.

I think most people do enjoy the big summer blockbusters, even if they're not that fantastic, because they want to have fun in the much-hyped-movies-of-the-year. The few kill-joys aren't worth fussing over.

[Crook]

Well one thing you can assume for sure, with this movie or any other, is some people will love it and some people will not.
Whoa, NO WAI! :wow:

[BatmanFanatic]

Whoa, NO WAI! :wow:

It's true. I've done the research.

;)

[ArmsHeldOut]

Yes, but again, even if all that was true, whats really the big deal? Maybe some people are expecting too much... maybe some people really think they will go to Narnia and back... and maybe they won't have that kind of experience with the film... but whats the harm in being happy and excited and hopeful for months waiting for it? Anticipation is the best part. Certainly it's not going to be so horrible as to leave people disgusted because Nolan is a great director. Even if it were a little disapointing on some levels to hardcore fans, it's not like these people are going to go jump off a bridge because of disapointment after they see it.

So I don't see any harm in any of what you're saying. Even if people are excited, even if they are unreasonably excited... even if they end up being wrong... so what? Every year millions of football fans get unreasonably excited for the Superbowl. They make an enormous fuss and throw huge parties and invite all their friends and expect to have their minds blown by how amazing of a Superbowl game they will see. Some years that Superbowl game is completely boring and disapointing for everyone. But none the less suggesting that we should just stop getting hyped up for Superbowl parties would never pass. Because rallying together to get excited about something is most of the fun, whether or not the game actually turns out to be worth it.

Like right now I'm thinking about all the people who've been really keeping up with the viral games for TDK. Dressing up as the Joker and taking pictures out by famous landmarks, chasing around for clues, messaging their friends, trying to decode things... they are having a ton of fun and making great memories. They're not going to look back at all that and go "Oh well, because I didn't like the Joker performance, I'm so upset that I spent all that time talking to my friends about TDK, calling Joker on my cell phone, getting secret scoops from the set, downloading cast sheets and IMAX preview and playing the viral game and getting excited about TDK. I wish I could have all that time back!"

So yah, people are really excited. Maybe they'll be a bit disapointed, maybe they wont be. Either way, it's fine. Having fun waiting is worth it.

BF!!!!! How've ya been? Good post, btw. Welcome back.

[Damiean Dark]

I hear all this about Joker not getting a lot of screentime whats that about??.

[BatmanFanatic]

BF!!!!! How've ya been? Good post, btw. Welcome back.

Hey thanks! =) Yah I was very busy with school for a while, SO glad the quarter is over, 4 science classes at once!

:oldrazz:

[BatmanFanatic]

I hear all this about Joker not getting a lot of screentime whats that about??.

Haven't heard that... but then I've been gone a while +P

[TNC9852002]

I hear all this about Joker not getting a lot of screentime whats that about??.
That seems likely. People have been talking about him as if he's all the movie's about, but there's a whole lot more to the movie other than him. I blame this on all of the Joker-centered media that was being bombarded last Winter.

-TNC

[ChrisB]

I hear all this about Joker not getting a lot of screentime whats that about??.

Ive always thought this is how TDK screentime would go...

Joker > Batman
Joker > Bruce Wayne

but

Batman+Bruce Wayne > Joker

[Rikxiepoo]

That seems likely. People have been talking about him as if he's all the movie's about, but there's a whole lot more to the movie other than him. I blame this on all of the Joker-centered media that was being bombarded last Winter.

-TNC

Considering this movie has the return of many characters and the introduction of two big ones (Joker and Harvey Dent) I dont see Joker having more than 45 total minutes of screentime. Batman, Bruce, and Harvey will take up like an 1:00 more which leaves 45 minutes of Alfred, Gordon, Rachel, and the filler stuff. Hell, in Beetlejuice Michael Keaton's character only had a total of 15 minutes in the movie named after his character LOL!

Ive always thought this is how TDK screentime would go...

Joker > Batman
Joker > Bruce Wayne

but

Batman+Bruce Wayne > Joker

You forget about Harvey Dent and Harvey Two-Face.


PS - I am more interested in seeing everything regarding Harvey Dent than the Joker, I already know what to expect from the Joker in this movie, thx to all the plot leaks and trailer stuff. ALso, since Nolan said in an interview that Harvey was the "backbone" of the story, it is curious to see how important he is in the story.

[cjblair]

Ive always thought this is how TDK screentime would go...

Joker > Batman
Joker > Bruce Wayne

but

Batman+Bruce Wayne > Joker

Where's Dent? I've read an interview done last year with Eric Roberts (Sal Maroni) where Two-Face is waiting in the limo for him. Flips the coin to see if he lives or dies, gets heads so he kills the driver instead.

[SpiderB]

Hell, in Beetlejuice Michael Keaton's character only had a total of 15 minutes in the movie named after his character LOL!

Very interesting point there. If you recall, Beetlejuice had very little to do with the story either. It was all about Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis' characters and their problems with the new family in their house. Beetlejuice was really just one small plot element. I think TDK is gonna turn out the same way. The real story in the movie is going to be about Harvey and Bruce. The Joker is just a distraction and an inciter of the action. But like Beetlejuice, he's the most colorful character in the film, and is thus used as the main selling point in all the advertising.

I have a feeling that what we've seen of the Joker in the trailer and prologue is probably about it for him in the film.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!

[Rikxiepoo]

I have a feeling that what we've seen of the Joker in the trailer and prologue is probably about it for him in the film.

Which is a shame considering The Joker is Batman's archnemesis and should get his own movie per say (like 89's movie) but then again Nolan's movies make great use of many characters in a single film, so even if he's not the main attraction, he will go out and pull off a great show for all of us :yay:

[Mr. Superhero]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!
I hope not. The Joker is a much more mainstream character, and must to be quite focused upon in order to completely define the character, unlike the Scarecrow, IMO.

The story will be based around Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent, but I don't agree that the Joker will be the Scarecrow of TDK. He's going to be a lot more involved, if you will.

[Eggyman]

It's obvious to me that The Joker will have quite a generous portion of the film.

Let's list some scenes we know he's in:

The first five minutes (prologue).

The Mob scene, where he apparently gives quite a large speech.

The viral video(s) he sends to batman.

Bruce's penthouse.

Pictures of him dressed as a cop.

Reports of him dressed as a nurse.

Behind bars scene.

Interrogation scene.

The whole thing with the truck and the 'come on, hit me!'

A joker-Scarecrow scene has been reported - Joker was spotted at the car park where Batman lands on the van.

I'd say he has a fair bit there. I know some of the ones I mentioned are a bit sketchy, but even then there's at least double the time and more than what Scarecrow had.

Edit: Forgot the Why So Serious scene. If anyone else can think of any more, it'd be appreciated :)

[Mr. Superhero]

If there is one thing I seriously cannot effin' wait for, it's this: Joker under the influence of fear gas.

*heart attack*

That is going to be the sweetest thing I have ever seen.

[Eggyman]

If there is one thing I seriously cannot effin' wait for, it's this: Joker under the influence of fear gas.

*heart attack*

That is going to be the sweetest thing I have ever seen.

I'd love to see him laugh off the effects of the gas on himself. Maybe blow out the smoke like he'd just had a drag of a cig :D

But I agree that someone under the effect seeing him will be amazing :up:

[-Crusher-]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!


joker has had more screentime in the prolouge and trailer then scarecrow had in the whole of BB.

sure there were scenes with crane. but him as scarecrow, there were what? 3 scenes?

[The Joker]

If there is one thing I seriously cannot effin' wait for, it's this: Joker under the influence of fear gas.

*heart attack*

That is going to be the sweetest thing I have ever seen.

Has this been confirmed, or is it still speculation?

[Naite22]

The dancing was stupid but TM as parker/spidey was great no matter how dissapointing SM3 was he perfectly portrayed the nerdish aspects of the character he wasnt your typical hero who once they become a hero they are virtually omnipotent in their universe.

Well said, and I completely agree!... oh, and when Spidey 4 comes around, I'll be first in line!!!

[Eggyman]

Has this been confirmed, or is it still speculation?

I've never heard anything confirming it. As far as I know, it is highly anticipated wishful thinking :D

It's a great idea though. And even though I said 'wishful thinking', it's not that hard to believe. I think there might have been something in the sides that made people think that it may happen.

[Mr. Superhero]

Has this been confirmed, or is it still speculation?
I remember reading a list of spoilers, and that's where I drew the idea from. I thought "well, they must have seen something to come to the conclusion that we get to see Joker in fear-gas mode". Plus, if Nolan didn't sit down with Goyer and say "Look, we've got Scarecow, we've got fear-gas, we've got the Joker" and still not think to include such a potentially awesome scene, then I'll be seriously left speechless.

[Damiean Dark]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!

WTF!!??? So the greatest comic book villain in history is being reduced to a sideline act? that may work for scarecrow but this is THE JOKER! HE SHOULD DOMINATE THE FILM WITH HIS PRESENSE AND HIS MASTERPLANS. If its a scarecrow type appeaance i will be sorely dissapointed we have been waiting 19 years for a new joker for crying out loud.:twisted:

[LastSunrise1981]

WTF!!??? So the greatest comic book villain in history is being reduced to a sideline act? that may work for scarecrow but this is THE JOKER! HE SHOULD DOMINATE THE FILM WITH HIS PRESENSE AND HIS MASTERPLANS. If its a scarecrow type appeaance i will be sorely dissapointed we have been waiting 19 years for a new joker for crying out loud.:twisted:

Joker will still have significant screen time. They just won't have it center around him like it was done in Batman(1989) where the Joker was front and center and no development for Bruce/Batman was done.

We'll see development for the Joker and how the results of his actions take a toll on the people of Gothman and on Bruce/Batman.

[ArmsHeldOut]

If there is one thing I seriously cannot effin' wait for, it's this: Joker under the influence of fear gas.

*heart attack*

That is going to be the sweetest thing I have ever seen.

Do you know for sure that we'll see that in TDK? Wouldn't want you to get your hopes up.

[Gianakin_]

Damiean was just responding to the psoter who said that Joker should have as much screentime as Scarecrow/Crane in BB. And I agree with Damiean, that's just plain wrong to me, too.

[Visionary]

Oh come on, don't start crying about The Joker's screentime, just cut it out--or your new nom de plume will be Cindy.

[Crook]

They've already set the hype for Joker being the main guy in TDK, so if it's anything short of that, it's their fault.

[DaddyGrayson]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7497/gtfozx4.jpg

[ronny]

WTF!!??? So the greatest comic book villain in history is being reduced to a sideline act? that may work for scarecrow but this is THE JOKER! HE SHOULD DOMINATE THE FILM WITH HIS PRESENSE AND HIS MASTERPLANS. If its a scarecrow type appeaance i will be sorely dissapointed we have been waiting 19 years for a new joker for crying out loud.:twisted:

But we must never forget that it is a Batman film. Joker bases himself entirely on being the opposite of his nemesis. Therefore it would be wrong to give them the same coverage.

[redfirebird2008]

Trust Nolan. I don't think he's BSing us on it. I've seen enough to realize that the character Heath has created is incredibly strong. I was blown away by Bardem's performance in No Country and I feel that Heath's acting, what little I have seen so far, is equally as strong for the Joker character. He has disappeared into the role so much that you can't tell it's him, which is exactly what Bardem did. Both had visual help to achieve this (makeup, hairstyles, etc.) but most importantly their PERSONALITIES are the complete opposite of how they are in real life. Bardem is and Ledger was a kind, cheerful soul but yet they both portray completely psychotic characters in a very convincing manner (from what I have seen of Heath's Joker).

[Crook]

But we must never forget that it is a Batman film. Joker bases himself entirely on being the opposite of his nemesis. Therefore it would be wrong to give them the same coverage.
Character ideals and principles have nothing to do with screentime. :huh:

[ronny]

Character ideals and principles have nothing to do with screentime. :huh:

They should though. Otherwise we'll end up getting an Alfred spin-off in which he opens a maverick detective agency...in the hood! :csad:
But seriously, it's all about balance. If you overexpose The Joker nothing he does will be very shocking. But use him when he's needed and continue to make people care about Bruce and the audience will react well when he starts shooting people down.

[Crook]

But seriously, it's all about balance. If you overexpose The Joker nothing he does will be very shocking. But use him when he's needed and continue to make people care about Bruce and the audience will react well when he starts shooting people down.
Well of course it's about balance. But the advantage TDK has here over B89 with the Bat/Joker dynamic is that one of them has already been developed to an extent (with BB). Practically half of the hard work is finished. It really is time for Joker to gain the spotlight, but not without hurting Bruce's part.

I just see no correlation between character principles and screentime. That's just something you cannot comparatively measure and judge.

[Rikxiepoo]

They've already set the hype for Joker being the main guy in TDK, so if it's anything short of that, it's their fault.

Me konkur!

[-Crusher-]

i have hope in nolan, and hope in ledger performance. i dont expect to be disspointed.

[Nightwing1977]

Joker will get plenty of screentime. It will be a lot longer than Scarecrow & probably Ra's too, so I ain't worry. TDK will supposely have the longest hours in a Batman film than any of the 6 previous films (and that including the Adam West's Batman movie ;)). With how long this film will be, we will get plenty showing of the Joker beside Batman. :)

[BatmanFanatic]

Very interesting point there. If you recall, Beetlejuice had very little to do with the story either. It was all about Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis' characters and their problems with the new family in their house. Beetlejuice was really just one small plot element. I think TDK is gonna turn out the same way. The real story in the movie is going to be about Harvey and Bruce. The Joker is just a distraction and an inciter of the action. But like Beetlejuice, he's the most colorful character in the film, and is thus used as the main selling point in all the advertising.

I have a feeling that what we've seen of the Joker in the trailer and prologue is probably about it for him in the film.

Well I'm going to strongly disagree. Partly because I HOPE NOT!

The way I see it Two Face is going to be the star of part III. So Harvey will have a few minutes, enough to establish a character arc, but without him being a bad guy that drives the plot I don't see that there is much need for him to fill up screen time. I believe that when Nolan talks about him being the backbone of the film, he is speaking in terms of back story and character drives (for instance Bruce may be even more determined to stop the Joker because of what he does or threatens to do to Harvey or something like that) but the backbone of a story is not necessarily what takes up the most screen time.

It would be rather disappointing to have a film which was completely hyped as the Joker movie, to have an actor that is not going to be able to give this performance a second time, and then to have hardly any Joker in the film. And I think Nolan knows how much the fans love the Joker and he would give him all the screen time in the world, especially in respect to Heath.

[BatmanFanatic]

If there is one thing I seriously cannot effin' wait for, it's this: Joker under the influence of fear gas.

*heart attack*

That is going to be the sweetest thing I have ever seen.

I believe the Joker is immune to fear gas and that's "the punchline" of any such attempt by Scarecrow to freak him out. If this is in the film then it only serves to paint a picture of Jokers character as all the more evil, because he is above the evil of the other bad-guys.

[Lead_Tester]

Nope. you're all wrong, the Joker is practically all the movie, Batman and The joker have more or less the same screen-time... With Dent almost lost but with the most important plots-scenes for him.

but i know that some of you ain't going to believe me anyway.

[bullets]

I believe the Joker is immune to fear gas and that's "the punchline" of any such attempt by Scarecrow to freak him out. If this is in the film then it only serves to paint a picture of Jokers character as all the more evil, because he is above the evil of the other bad-guys.



I would like to see that in tdk .

I have a feeling the joker will be in over half of the movie . They are setting two-face up more for the third. I dont think they could resist focusing alot of this movie on joker scenes.

[Lead_Tester]

Thsi movie is about Bruce and Harvey. Joker is what Scarecrow was to BB.

AS HE SHOULD BE!

sir you made me laugh hard, thanks.... enjoy Hulk.

[The Joker]

I believe the Joker is immune to fear gas and that's "the punchline" of any such attempt by Scarecrow to freak him out. If this is in the film then it only serves to paint a picture of Jokers character as all the more evil, because he is above the evil of the other bad-guys.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/d0d2fa515e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/b1da4ab68e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg

[StylishHokie21]

The hell is that? :huh:

[Lead_Tester]

My God My Eyes ! ! ! !

Can't Unsee ! ! !

[-Crusher-]

:dry:english isnt your first language is it?

[The Battousai]

english isnt your first language is it?

I think language isn't his first language :o

[-Crusher-]

I think language isn't his first language :o
yea...thats what i was asking...

[The Battousai]

yea...thats what i was asking...

You were a tad too specific :oldrazz::cwink:

[Lead_Tester]

heheheheheheheeeeeeee
im glad 4 that idiot souls...hehehehehehheheheeeee
if u want 2 go....go with a smilee

uuummmmm

Yeah, i agree with you, i like 42 gogo with smilee too.

[BatmanFanatic]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/d0d2fa515e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/b1da4ab68e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg

Yup. A great example of what I think has been well established in canon - Joker is immune to fear. Not that you couldn't guess that by the fact that he's always laughing his head off when Batman pummels him to within an inch of death anyway... the man is clearly too insane to be bothered by anything.

[Booba34]

ok, the only thing i dont get is why nolan didnt have the toxin "make" joker, or something like that, just haveing him be insane without any reason. the joker in the comics (and in the first movie) is given a reason for his insanity: he got dropped in a vat of acid that made him crazy. but in the new movie, hes simply a guy who paints his face up and is just simply crazy. i dunno, that implies that he can be cured, or helped, unlike the comics or B89 movie, where hes insane and theres no going back.
and of course theres the fact that ledger looks so radically different from the classic version of joker. but i guess you could also say the same about bales batman look.

[StylishHokie21]

ok, the only thing i dont get is why nolan didnt have the toxin "make" joker, or something like that, just haveing him be insane without any reason. the joker in the comics (and in the first movie) is given a reason for his insanity: he got dropped in a vat of acid that made him crazy. but in the new movie, hes simply a guy who paints his face up and is just simply crazy. i dunno, that implies that he can be cured, or helped, unlike the comics or B89 movie, where hes insane and theres no going back.
and of course theres the fact that ledger looks so radically different from the classic version of joker. but i guess you could also say the same about bales batman look.

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm sure Nolan has his reasons.

[Batman jr.]

Next question: Does humour belong in music? :meanie:

[deathfromabove]

ok, the only thing i dont get is why nolan didnt have the toxin "make" joker, or something like that, just haveing him be insane without any reason. the joker in the comics (and in the first movie) is given a reason for his insanity: he got dropped in a vat of acid that made him crazy. but in the new movie, hes simply a guy who paints his face up and is just simply crazy. i dunno, that implies that he can be cured, or helped, unlike the comics or B89 movie, where hes insane and theres no going back.
and of course theres the fact that ledger looks so radically different from the classic version of joker. but i guess you could also say the same about bales batman look.

the joker had no reason in the comics for ten years before they decided to give him an origin. he just showed up and caused chaos. and something clearly happened to him in TDK (just look at his face) we just might not find out exactly what it was.

"whatever doesnt kill you simply makes you...stranger"

Next question: Does humour belong in music? :meanie:

zappa for the win!

[Franky4Fingers]

Next question: Does humour belong in music? :meanie:

I guess that depends on how seriouse the band takes themselves.:oldrazz:

[FCEEVIPER]

Is The Joker Hype reaching ridiculously high expectations?
I don't think so, I think it's just about right.

[The Joker]

ok, the only thing i dont get is why nolan didnt have the toxin "make" joker, or something like that, just haveing him be insane without any reason. the joker in the comics (and in the first movie) is given a reason for his insanity: he got dropped in a vat of acid that made him crazy. but in the new movie, hes simply a guy who paints his face up and is just simply crazy. i dunno, that implies that he can be cured, or helped, unlike the comics or B89 movie, where hes insane and theres no going back.
and of course theres the fact that ledger looks so radically different from the classic version of joker. but i guess you could also say the same about bales batman look.

Hello Googleme94.

I was wondering when you'd resurface under a new name!

[Damiean Dark]

the joker had no reason in the comics for ten years before they decided to give him an origin. he just showed up and caused chaos. and something clearly happened to him in TDK (just look at his face) we just might not find out exactly what it was.

"whatever doesnt kill you simply makes you...stranger"



zappa for the win!

Comic fans wanted an explanation as the character became popular and the fans became more mature but i dont mind a no origin or backstory to joker in TDK myself.

[-Crusher-]

Hello Googleme94.

I was wondering when you'd resurface under a new name!


googleme, oh really?


Comic fans wanted an explanation as the character became popular and the fans became more mature but i dont mind a no origin or backstory to joker in TDK myself.

the idea of him coming out of nowhere and just being who he is already sounds awesome to me. just like the comics that gave him no origin. FTW.

[Batman jr.]

guys. i didnt say that its the actor.!!!!!!!!1 i say its from the new look of the joker by someone else... meee. but u n your stupid mind. stupid, stupid.........;-P
hhehehehe do u remember that line?

hey fceeviper...............

where did u find that avantar? its a new scene i believe


What's this, a new language? :huh::o

[-Crusher-]

ugh it hurts my eyes to read.

hey...........gothic blue
theres no............reason
to talk like........this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[gwynplaine]

Next question: Does humour belong in music? :meanie:
Weid Al ?

[escobar2248]

ugh it hurts my eyes to read.

hey...........gothic blue
theres no............reason
to talk like........this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Well............Crusher
..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He/...............GatW
our.......attenchin :oldrazz::woot:

[Saint]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/d0d2fa515e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/b1da4ab68e_Detective_Comics__664_pg.jpg

I love this sequence. It could be Joker's immunity to toxin, but I prefer to think of it as him literally having no fears. I especially like how he's almost offended by the notion thatScarecrow thought he could best the Joker. He regards the rest of the rogues gallery as second-stringers and imitators. Good stuff.

There's another sequence from that period (a few issues prior, maybe) where Batman, half crazy from exhaustion and half crazy from fear-gas has flashbacks of Jason's Todd's death and beats the Joker nearly to death. Also good. Knightfall/Quest/End had a lot of great stuff.

[The Joker]

I love this sequence. It could be Joker's immunity to toxin, but I prefer to think of it as him literally having no fears.

Me too.

I like to think that it fits in with his idea of everything in life just being one big horrible joke. So, he just doesn't fear anything in it because he's embraced it with his insanity.

I especially like how he's almost offended by the notion thatScarecrow thought he could best the Joker.

Yes, twice in the previous Knightfall issues he actually egged Scarecrow on to try it, saying that he's looking forward to it, and is certain he'd find the experience highly amusing.

Which as we see here, he does.

There's another sequence from that period (a few issues prior, maybe) where Batman, half crazy from exhaustion and half crazy from fear-gas has flashbacks of Jason's Todd's death and beats the Joker nearly to death. Also good. Knightfall/Quest/End had a lot of great stuff.

One of my favourite sequences ever. Batman just goes nuts and beats the living hell out of Joker:


http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/Knightf1.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/Knightf2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/Knightf3.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc131/Jokerfan1980/Knightf4.jpg

[-Crusher-]

Well............Crusher
..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He/...............GatW
our.......attenchin :oldrazz::woot:

very true. but at the cost of my sight!

[StylishHokie21]

Hello Googleme94.

I was wondering when you'd resurface under a new name!

I should have known.

[cjblair]

Yup. A great example of what I think has been well established in canon - Joker is immune to fear. Not that you couldn't guess that by the fact that he's always laughing his head off when Batman pummels him to within an inch of death anyway... the man is clearly too insane to be bothered by anything.

People ask why he doesn't wear body armour, well you just answered that question. He just doesn't give a fudge.

[BatmanFanatic]

People ask why he doesn't wear body armour, well you just answered that question. He just doesn't give a fudge.

People actually ask why the JOKER doesnt wear body armor? Thats really funny =)

[-Crusher-]

People ask why he doesn't wear body armour, well you just answered that question. He just doesn't give a fudge.


thats probably how he always survives. he doesnt care for his own well being, the only thing that keeps him alive is his insanity and his drive to defeat batman.

it brings in the old thought of if you think somthing bad is gunna happen then it usually will. but he doesnt think of those odds therefore he lives on.

[Banquet]

Next question: Does humour belong in music? :meanie:

Ever heard Dragonforce?

[Batman jr.]

Ever heard Dragonforce?

Oh yes, I love metal, but not those guys. My original post is an album title from Frank Zappa :woot::cwink:

[Banquet]

Oh yes, I love metal, but not those guys. My original post is an album title from Frank Zappa :woot::cwink:

oh! I haven't really listened to frank zappa :csad: ... yet.

[Damiean Dark]

Seeing those scenes from Knightfall just brings back memories that the Joker we will be getting will not be like the joker we all love at all.

[Banquet]

Seeing those scenes from Knightfall just brings back memories that the Joker we will be getting will not be like the joker we all love at all.

That's what makes it exciting! Even if he's not the one we've loved in the past, he's a new version with new possibilities. Don't be a party pooper.

[Batman jr.]

Seeing those scenes from Knightfall just brings back memories that the Joker we will be getting will not be like the joker we all love at all.


How was the movie? How high would you rate it?

[Batman jr.]

oh! I haven't really listened to frank zappa :csad: ... yet.

He's a very underrated guitarist, I think. But I'm not really a "fan", I just like some of his stuff.

[The Joker]

Seeing those scenes from Knightfall just brings back memories that the Joker we will be getting will not be like the joker we all love at all.

Why? Just because he's not permawhite? That's the only difference I see.

[abcdefz]

Nolan compared joker to jaws. jaws didn't have a story arc either, he was completely formed and what not. but
jaws wasn't at all a sideshow now was he?
do not fret
everything will be good


Exactly.

It's like if, back in the day, Ridley told you that the alien was only going to be onscreen for about 15 minutes in the whole movie. Increases rather than lessens its impact, I think.

And look what happened when Hannibal Lecter was finally the center of his own movie.

[-Crusher-]

hopfully that news about twoface will lay anybodies thoughts of the joker barely being in the movie to rest. i was one of the people that told you so, the third movie will be twofaces, tdk is just a way to bring him into the plotline, this is the jokers movie. not dents.

[Marx]

hopfully that news about twoface will lay anybodies thoughts of the joker barely being in the movie to rest. i was one of the people that told you so, the third movie will be twofaces, tdk is just a way to bring him into the plotline, this is the jokers movie. not dents.

I'm just surprised by how many people actually thought that "Two Face" would have a larger role :huh:

[-Crusher-]

meto, if the joker is in a movie, hes obviously going to have the bigger role then any other villain. hes the most renouned villain in comic book history period, DC or Marvel, hes the biggest.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

meto, if the joker is in a movie, hes obviously going to have the bigger role then any other villain. hes the most renouned villain in comic book history period, DC or Marvel, hes the biggest.

Damn right!

[Franky4Fingers]

considering that little spoiler that SHH reported I have to assume The Joker will probably have enough screen time to please us all.

[StylishHokie21]

considering that little spoiler that SHH reported I have to assume The Joker will probably have enough screen time to please us all.

Agreed.

[escobar2248]

considering that little spoiler that SHH reported I have to assume The Joker will probably have enough screen time to please us all.

You can tell from all of the interviews that Nolan has made it his personal mission to make sure that Heath's performance is well remembered by everyone; die-hard fan boys as well as the casual movie goer.

[BatmanFanatic]

You can tell from all of the interviews that Nolan has made it his personal mission to make sure that Heath's performance is well remembered by everyone; die-hard fan boys as well as the casual movie goer.

*cheer!*

[-Crusher-]

You can tell from all of the interviews that Nolan has made it his personal mission to make sure that Heath's performance is well remembered by everyone; die-hard fan boys as well as the casual movie goer.

QFT


ridiculously high expectations? HA! i laugh at the thought, HAHAHAHA!

[Damiean Dark]

I had MASSIVE high expectations for BB and was bitterly dissapointed at what could have been so i am keeping my hopes low and just hoping for a good exciting summer movie anything more will be a big bonus.

[granturismohalo]

Opposite for me. I set my standards low for BB and didnt even follow the news or the forums so much but in the end I was highly entertained.
The hype for TDK and expectations are way up so I hope it wont backfire because I cant name a movie I was so fired up that really sealed the deal perfectly.

[Dgm2889]

While I love the idea of Joker using knives, I wondered how he could be a threat at a long range. However, today in my criminal justice class we were told that a suspect with a knife who is 21 feet away from a police officer can stab the officer before he can even unholster his gun. Now that's interesting.

[gwynplaine]

While I love the idea of Joker using knives, I wondered how he could be a threat at a long range. However, today in my criminal justice class we were told that a suspect with a knife who is 21 feet away from a police officer can stab the officer before he can even unholster his gun. Now that's interesting.
Interesting. The Joker has always used knives, I think from like his 1st or 2nd appearance or something, another great homage from Nolan who often said that he was specifically referencing those two comics (like the Joker dressing up as a cop).

[Damiean Dark]

We see him using guns and rocket launchers in the prolouge and trailer so i have no worries about that.

[Closerframe]

He'll use

-Guns
-Rocket Launchers
-Knives
-Legs (Kicking)
-Bombs (Possibly)

[Snoo]

I like the fact he has both short and long distance weapons. Smart villain. :yay: A weapon for every occasion! He may favour one over the other but it's good to come equipped with a few other things. And he fights dirty.

It's just interesting to me because, for instance, almost the entire Fellowship in Lord of the Rings has short distance weapons except for Legolas with the bow. You've got a group of NINE people and eight of them didn't think to bring a bow into battle (well, Aragorn did but he didn't use his much as he prefered the sword).

Lucky they had a wizard with them. *grin*

[Marx]

While I love the idea of Joker using knives, I wondered how he could be a threat at a long range. However, today in my criminal justice class we were told that a suspect with a knife who is 21 feet away from a police officer can stab the officer before he can even unholster his gun. Now that's interesting.

That's true. It's scary, but true.

[Infinity9999x]

Why? Just because he's not permawhite? That's the only difference I see.

Ditto. Joker's characterization seems spot on.

[Cunning Stunts]

That's true. It's scary, but true.

It's very true, but there are certain reasons behind it.

You know what it takes for a cop to best the mentioned oponent? Stepping to the side.

The martial arts school I used to attend trained police officers regularly, and every one of them was brought down when a "suspect" with a knife charged from across a twenty-foot room. All it took in the demonstration was a side-step.

[Snoo]

While I love the idea of Joker using knives, I wondered how he could be a threat at a long range. However, today in my criminal justice class we were told that a suspect with a knife who is 21 feet away from a police officer can stab the officer before he can even unholster his gun. Now that's interesting.

Scary. I can just imagine the creepy "swishy" sound the knife would make while flying toward its victim if this ever happened in the movie. Quick and deadly!

[Infinity9999x]

Dgm2889, when you say a criminal can stab the officer before he draws his weapon, do you mean that he can cover the distance himself and stab the officer, or just throw the knife and stab the officer?

[TheVileOne]

What I'm most curious to see work in the movie, since Joker doesn't have a backstory how it will come off.

From descriptions it sounds Joker basically appears as he does in the prologue, and that's it. He's the Joker, there's no Jack Napier, Red Hood, or Killing Joke origin or backstory. No vat of chemicals that was in the comics or BTAS.

From the end of the first movie, the Joker was already in existence before he had met Batman.

I think the idea is interesting and will work. And Joker not having any kind of backstory makes him a little more mythic and larger than life. The movie doesn't sound like its trying to strip down the Joker and show what makes him tick. Instead the movie is doing that for Harvey Dent/Two-Face. I do like the idea in principle because it makes Joker more mysterious. It makes you wonder who this guy is, and you can interpret it in a number of ways.

However, you could also argue that the tragic background of the Joker emphasizes the parallels with Batma. At the end of the day they really aren't so different. BUT, the epilogue of the first film suggests this when Gordon talks about how the Joker was the crime world's "escalation" or essential answer to Batman.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Mystery is the best theme they could go with, with re-inventing the Joker for this film.

[-Crusher-]

the epilogue of the first film suggests this when Gordon talks about how the Joker was the crime world's "escalation" or essential answer to Batman.


exactly. and also no matter what, origin or nothing. the joker will always stand for chaos and anarchy and batman will always stand for order and justice.
that is what makes them arch nemisis'

[Joker4Halloween]

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd257/joker4halloween/joker10.jpg

[Ayumi_Vasquez]

In my personal opinion, no. We’ve seen so little yet it’s so addicting. I think he will be phenomenal. The next issue is how much screen time will this chilling intense performance have???

I’d like it to be his movie, like most of us here. I know it won’t be completely his. He’ll be the terror that rips Gotham a new a**hole. But Gotham pretty much is a s**t-hole already. I wouldn’t live there ;)

[DaddyGrayson]

Yeah, why do people live in Gotham? Even the bums... like just walk to the next town and be a bum there. At least you won't get killed by the Joker.

[Damiean Dark]

The one thing i really dont want to see for the whole movie is Joker snarling and grunting like in some parts of the trailer i HATE that i still see joker as a sophisticated guy in spite of his insanity.

[gwynplaine]

Yeah, why do people live in Gotham? Even the bums... like just walk to the next town and be a bum there. At least you won't get killed by the Joker.
Lol:woot:.
The one thing i really dont want to see for the whole movie is Joker snarling and grunting like in some parts of the trailer i HATE that i still see joker as a sophisticated guy in spite of his insanity.
Have you seen how he dresses ? The cool socks, the vest, that great shirt, the tie, the pocket watch, the frock, the coat, the guy is a real dandy in the vein of Dorian Gray. I think he is very sophisticated. Well, he sure dresses better than I do anyway:woot:.

[why_so_serious?]

Here is an article for the joker mania going on right now: http://www.comcast.net/entertainment/articles/2008/03/14/Film.Batman.Ledger/

[gwynplaine]

Here is an article for the joker mania going on right now: http://www.comcast.net/entertainment/articles/2008/03/14/Film.Batman.Ledger/
Cool article. Man, do I love that Empire cover, that and the pic of him in the car with his henchman. They both capture the true essence of the character IMO.

[TheVileOne]

exactly. and also no matter what, origin or nothing. the joker will always stand for chaos and anarchy and batman will always stand for order and justice.
that is what makes them arch nemisis'

I don't think the lines are always that clear for Batman.

[CaptainClown]

What I'm most curious to see work in the movie, since Joker doesn't have a backstory how it will come off.

From descriptions it sounds Joker basically appears as he does in the prologue, and that's it. He's the Joker, there's no Jack Napier, Red Hood, or Killing Joke origin or backstory. No vat of chemicals that was in the comics or BTAS.

From the end of the first movie, the Joker was already in existence before he had met Batman.

I think the idea is interesting and will work. And Joker not having any kind of backstory makes him a little more mythic and larger than life. The movie doesn't sound like its trying to strip down the Joker and show what makes him tick. Instead the movie is doing that for Harvey Dent/Two-Face. I do like the idea in principle because it makes Joker more mysterious. It makes you wonder who this guy is, and you can interpret it in a number of ways.

However, you could also argue that the tragic background of the Joker emphasizes the parallels with Batma. At the end of the day they really aren't so different. BUT, the epilogue of the first film suggests this when Gordon talks about how the Joker was the crime world's "escalation" or essential answer to Batman.
I think Joker is going to get people curious on how he came to be. Think Hannibal Lecter. We understood him as a character and were given glimpses to his past but nothing more.

[Franky4Fingers]

I think Joker is going to get people curious on how he came to be. Think Hannibal Lecter. We understood him as a character and were given glimpses to his past but nothing more.

I think the Joker is going to get people to re-consider bringing an extra pair of underware the second time they watch the movie......uuuuh...i digress.:yay:

[Snoo]

I think the Joker is going to get people to re-consider bringing an extra pair of underware the second time they watch the movie......uuuuh...i digress.:yay:

*imagines fangirls screaming their heads off at Joker and throwing bras at the giant screen in reaction*

The Joker... He's like the Backstreet Boys in a way.

:cwink:

[Franky4Fingers]

*imagines fangirls screaming their heads off at Joker and throwing bras at the giant screen in reaction*

The Joker... He's like the Backstreet Boys in a way.

:cwink:

I need tickets to that showing.:yay:

[JokerLedger]

meh..........

I thought they were new joker pics :(

[TheVileOne]

Thank you Garth Marenghi. Hilarious show, but seriously what is the deal with that show?

[-Crusher-]

*imagines fangirls screaming their heads off at Joker and throwing bras at the giant screen in reaction*

The Joker... He's like the Backstreet Boys in a way.

:cwink:
somthing i found funny about the girls at my school was they all said,"ZOMG-ZORZ heath is liek so totally HAWT! but in batman hes scary."

i love that, he was able to get out of the whole dreamy teenage girl heart ache thing that some actors get.

[Ayumi_Vasquez]

*imagines fangirls screaming their heads off at Joker and throwing bras at the giant screen in reaction*

The Joker... He's like the Backstreet Boys in a way.

:cwink:

LOL, THAT'S funny. Well, he is a 'bad boy,' and he does have a tight body. Underneath that derranged make up there is a beautiful creature, damn. Some girls like it rough, Joker style.
:oldrazz::oldrazz::oldrazz:

[BatmanFanatic]

Exactly.

It's like if, back in the day, Ridley told you that the alien was only going to be onscreen for about 15 minutes in the whole movie. Increases rather than lessens its impact, I think.

And look what happened when Hannibal Lecter was finally the center of his own movie.

I agree with the concept that a villain doesn't have to have a lot of screentime to make a huge impact, however given how much we know about the movie already, you add up all those scenes you know the Joker will be in together, and thats a HELL OF A LOT of screentime.

[BatmanFanatic]

Mystery is the best theme they could go with, with re-inventing the Joker for this film.

I'm glad they're not going to delve into origins because 1.) it does make Joker larger than life and mysterious and 2.) the old origin stories have already been done, and I would hate for them to just make up a different origin story out of thin air because they wanted something different.

This way everyone can imagine the origin story they prefer ;)

[gwynplaine]

I'm glad they're not going to delve into origins because 1.) it does make Joker larger than life and mysterious and 2.) the old origin stories have already been done, and I would hate for them to just make up a different origin story out of thin air because they wanted something different.

This way everyone can imagine the origin story they prefer ;)
Good post. The Joker is like the boogeyman, he doesn't need an origin.

[BatmanFanatic]

somthing i found funny about the girls at my school was they all said,"ZOMG-ZORZ heath is liek so totally HAWT! but in batman hes scary."

i love that, he was able to get out of the whole dreamy teenage girl heart ache thing that some actors get.

Yah, that's especially funny given how much of a teen-fan-girl following Bale has always had. But he's been fighting back ever since American Psycho. I think being seen as "that dreamy actor" really, really bothers him. In that way he's similar to a lot of other good looking male actors who start refusing to do romantic leading roles, like Pitt and Depp because they are really bothered by the implication that their success is due to looks.

Personally, I find it kind of funny. I mean... actresses love to be seen as beautiful, actors seem to hate it =)

[BatmanFanatic]

[quote=Ayumi_Vasquez;14410993 Some girls like it rough, Joker style.
:oldrazz::oldrazz::oldrazz:[/quote]

:dry::dry::dry:

Thats just wrong.

[The Battousai]

:dry::dry::dry:

Thats just wrong.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/backtothefront88/agreed.jpg

[Snoo]

somthing i found funny about the girls at my school was they all said,"ZOMG-ZORZ heath is liek so totally HAWT! but in batman hes scary."

i love that, he was able to get out of the whole dreamy teenage girl heart ache thing that some actors get.

Haha, I can imagine the schoolgirls' reactions to Heath's Joker. I'd love to shock my female friends with a well-timed outburst about just how "OMG, HAWTTT" Heath's Joker is... Just to see their expressions. It would be so worth it. *cracks up* It wouldn't sound like me at all and that's just the thing. I can already see them edging away from me, hehe.

Ghastly make-up or not, the new Joker is irresistible and "attractive" (in a sense) just like Heath was in real-life to many women. Most of the time I don't even see Heath when I see the TDK Joker and that is a huge compliment to not only Heath's acting but also the make-up and costume department and Nolan's vision for the character. There may be Heath underneath, but the charisma and the attitude is all Joker's. It's the way he carries himself. THAT'S what I love.

If some girls don't like it and only want to see handsome Heath sighing into the camera, too bad. It's their loss, right? :woot:

LOL, THAT'S funny. Well, he is a 'bad boy,' and he does have a tight body. Underneath that derranged make up there is a beautiful creature, damn. Some girls like it rough, Joker style.

True, true. The few times it dawns on me it's actually HEATH underneath that make-up, I go "hum hum" (like he does it in several movies of his) in an appreciative tone. :yay:

Aaand I'll stop there. Honestly, you shouldn't talk about Joker's tight body, I'M GETTING DISTRACTED! *laugh*

(Sorry if this bothers the male members. Done now.)

[Cunning Stunts]

Haha, I can imagine the schoolgirls' reactions to Heath's Joker. I'd love to shock my female friends with a well-timed outburst about just how "OMG, HAWTTT" Heath's Joker is... Just to see their expressions. It would be so worth it. *cracks up* It wouldn't sound like me at all and that's just the thing. I can already see them edging away from me, hehe.

Ghastly make-up or not, the new Joker is irresistible and "attractive" (in a sense) just like Heath was in real-life to many women. Most of the time I don't even see Heath when I see the TDK Joker and that is a huge compliment to not only Heath's acting but also the make-up and costume department and Nolan's vision for the character. There may be Heath underneath, but the charisma and the attitude is all Joker's. It's the way he carries himself. THAT'S what I love.

If some girls don't like it and only want to see handsome Heath sighing into the camera, too bad. It's their loss, right? :woot:



True, true. The few times it dawns on me it's actually HEATH underneath that make-up, I go "hum hum" (like he does it in several movies of his) in an appreciative tone. :yay:

Aaand I'll stop there. Honestly, you shouldn't talk about Joker's tight body, I'M GETTING DISTRACTED! *laugh*

(Sorry if this bothers the male members. Done now.)

Someone I know is "terrified" of clowns, so I originally told her she had to come with my girlfriend and I to The Dark Knight.

Then I went to see Resident Evil: Extinction with her, and she talked the entire time.

No more TDK for her.

[gwynplaine]

Someone I know is "terrified" of clowns, so I originally told her she had to come with my girlfriend and I to The Dark Knight.

Then I went to see Resident Evil: Extinction with her, and she talked the entire time.

No more TDK for her.
Yeah, coulrophobia FTW !

[Crook]

LOL, THAT'S funny. Well, he is a 'bad boy,' and he does have a tight body. Underneath that derranged make up there is a beautiful creature, damn. Some girls like it rough, Joker style.
:oldrazz::oldrazz::oldrazz:
That's a shame. I've heard the Joker method is only experienced once....for the simple fact that you're left mutilated and dismembered by night's end.

Is that the "in" thing now? :o

I agree with the concept that a villain doesn't have to have a lot of screentime to make a huge impact, however given how much we know about the movie already, you add up all those scenes you know the Joker will be in together, and thats a HELL OF A LOT of screentime.
Even so, when you have such an iconic character like Joker, you just HAVE to give him the limelight. Anything less, and I think everyone can agree they'll feel a little cheated. The "Hannibal" method will just not work for him, no matter how well written it is.

Good post. The Joker is like the boogeyman, he doesn't need an origin.
Neither does Batman then. :oldrazz:

[gwynplaine]

Neither does Batman then. :oldrazz:[/quote]


Lol. Bob Kane gave him one. He is more like Zorro than the bogeyman.

[Snoo]

Someone I know is "terrified" of clowns, so I originally told her she had to come with my girlfriend and I to The Dark Knight.

Then I went to see Resident Evil: Extinction with her, and she talked the entire time.

No more TDK for her.

Haha. :cwink: And, oh God, it ticks me off when that happens. I can't stand people talking in the theatre but there's always someone who does their little "commentary" on it. Most of them stop if you tell them to be quiet but it's the teens in the first rows that are usually the worst (where I live, anyway). I'm always in the last row right in the middle so obviously they can't hear me grumbling at them.

If there's anyone ruining my experience when TDK comes out, I'll be very pissed off. It's best to either bring someone with you YOU KNOW won't talk during the film, or go solo. No ruining the Joker scenes for me, please! I want to treasure each second Heath's on screen.

I'll tell my friends they can't make a sound OR ELSE. :twisted: I don't think they'll be saying anything though because this movie's going to captivate them like no other in 2008. I've already turned two of the girls into Bat fans. Yeah, that's BAT fans, not Bale fans. *feels proud* Perhaps the same can be done with the Joker this time around.

[TheBatman072]

If there's anyone ruining my experience when TDK comes out, I'll be very pissed off. It's best to either bring someone with you YOU KNOW won't talk during the film, or go solo. No ruining the Joker scenes for me, please! I want to treasure each second Heath's on screen.


I hope somebody does in my theater. I HOPE they do.


That way I can show them my Joker knife.

[Nightwing1977]

I'm glad they're not going to delve into origins because 1.) it does make Joker larger than life and mysterious and 2.) the old origin stories have already been done, and I would hate for them to just make up a different origin story out of thin air because they wanted something different.

This way everyone can imagine the origin story they prefer ;)

I agree. We already got the origin with B89, so why use another origin again? I think Joker is more scarier when you don't really know his past. He is just a force of nature that just appear like that without answers on how.

[BatmanFanatic]

Aaand I'll stop there. Honestly, you shouldn't talk about Joker's tight body, I'M GETTING DISTRACTED! *laugh*

(Sorry if this bothers the male members. Done now.)

Uh... it's possible for it to "bother" FEMALE members such as myself as well. I love a cute guy as much as anyone else, but Joker is the last person I would be looking at "in that way" in this film. Christian, especially beefed up for a superhero part, is enough eye candy for me. Having gone through all the comics and graphic novels and BTAS, even entertaining a thought like that about the Joker character, no matter who's playing him, feels downright incestuous in its WRONGness. Not to mention that who could possibly be cooler and sexier than Batman in a Batman film anyway?

Lastly I really don't get why ppl think that Heath is this big stud. My knowledge of his on screen presence is repressed gay cowboy and upcoming sociopathic murdering clown.

[BatmanFanatic]

Even so, when you have such an iconic character like Joker, you just HAVE to give him the limelight. Anything less, and I think everyone can agree they'll feel a little cheated. The "Hannibal" method will just not work for him, no matter how well written it is.

Which is why A.) my vote is against the idea of having limited screen time and B.) As I stated it's a moot point because it's clear he's in a heck of a lot of scenes and will have TONS of screen time.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Lastly I really don't get why ppl think that Heath is this big stud.

It was Ten Things I Hate About You and A Knight's Tale.

Truth be told, he was a sexy man. :o

[-Crusher-]

loved a knights tale. and im a guy, but i can see how he gained the dreamy school girl crush status.

[cjblair]

Neither does Batman then. :oldrazz:


Lol. Bob Kane gave him one. He is more like Zorro than the bogeyman.[/quote]

I always though of it going Zorro-Wayne-Osborne, all wealthy all living double lives. Kane openly acknowledges that Zorro inspired Wayne, I just think that Osborne is a twisted version of the same rich kung fu fighting tycoon.

[Snoo]

Uh... it's possible for it to "bother" FEMALE members such as myself as well. I love a cute guy as much as anyone else, but Joker is the last person I would be looking at "in that way" in this film.

Aw, don't take it so seriously, the last few posts have been mostly humourous. :cwink: The Joker was never physically 'attractive' to me before Heath was cast and I generally still don't see him that way. I actually have to remind myself it's Heath underneath that make-up, just like many other people on this board have been doing.

Most of his magnetism comes from the way he carries himself in TDK. I think you'd agree with that? From what we've seen so far, he makes the character as fascinating as I hoped he would.

When it hits me there's an attractive actor underneath that ghastly make-up, it just cracks me up (I'm easily amused) and I see it as a funny bonus. TDK will be very fun indeed! Besides, Heath has proven again and again he doesn't fall into the "pretty actor only doing fluffy romance movies aimed at teenage girls" category. I admire him for tackling someone like the Joker even more because of that.

Christian, especially beefed up for a superhero part, is enough eye candy for me. Having gone through all the comics and graphic novels and BTAS, even entertaining a thought like that about the Joker character, no matter who's playing him, feels downright incestuous in its WRONGness. Not to mention that who could possibly be cooler and sexier than Batman in a Batman film anyway?

Well, that's good for you. Christian's a good-looking guy, I agree, and you think he's eye candy, so why can't "you get" that other people could like a guy like Heath (even as the Joker)? There's plenty of eye candy in this world and it comes in different shapes.

Christian's not the only handsome actor out there. Heck, in TDK he and Eckhart will be the good-looking ones. Double eye candy! Some women will see the film for Eckhart and not Bale, etc. But in real-life you bet Heath was a stunner to many women. He's just not your type, and that's that.

Lastly I really don't get why ppl think that Heath is this big stud. My knowledge of his on screen presence is repressed gay cowboy and upcoming sociopathic murdering clown.

It's called personal preference. Not everyone likes the same type of guy. To each their own, eh? That's the fun part. My appreciation for him goes beyond Brokeback and Joker since I've seen most of his films. Broaden your knowledge, perhaps? You may be surprised and think differently about Heath, who knows. :yay: I've seen plenty of people change their mind about him, both women and men alike.

[metropolitanpsy]

i just saw charlie and the chocolate factory and i feel johny depp would be an excellent replacement as the joker, he has the look and the skills to fill in ladgers shoes!

[ActuallyRobin]

i just saw charlie and the chocolate factory and i feel johny depp would be an excellent replacement as the joker, he has the look and the skills to fill in ladgers shoes!

they so didnt need to remake that film, it was a poor imitation of the original

[Ayumi_Vasquez]

i just saw charlie and the chocolate factory and i feel johny depp would be an excellent replacement as the joker, he has the look and the skills to fill in ladgers shoes!

I see Johnny Depp being a good Joker too. He's definatly got the experiance, ability and skills. The costume's are similar which makes me think of Joker even more. Johnny has always been good at playing the odd ball, the outcast, the strange one. He's going to have to tap into some major rage if plays the role of Joker.

[metropolitanpsy]

I see Johnny Depp being a good Joker too. He's definatly got the experiance, ability and skills. The costume's are similar which makes me think of Joker even more. Johnny has always been good at playing the odd ball, the outcast, the strange one. He's going to have to tap into some major rage if plays the role or Joker.

johnny depp plays dark roles really well, plays a very believeable odd ball, he would be a natural successor to ledger!

he also has the joker look which helps!

[StylishHokie21]

Lastly I really don't get why ppl think that Heath is this big stud. My knowledge of his on screen presence is repressed gay cowboy and upcoming sociopathic murdering clown.

Have you ever seen 10 Things I Hate About You? Pretty much every female was drooling over him in that movie so much that he started getting serious with his roles.

[JokerLedger]

Depp and Ledger have similar face structures and they kind of do look similar at times.
I think Depp can easily pull of Heath's Joker very well.

[JokerLedger]

Depp and Ledger have similar face structures and they kind of do look similar at times.
I think Depp can easily pull of Heath's Joker very well.

[Eggyman]

Depp and Ledger have similar face structures and they kind of do look similar at times.
I think Depp can easily pull of Heath's Joker very well.

But do you think it likely that an actor of Depp's fame and credibility will be satisfied in impersonating another actor's interpretation of a character? I doubt it very much.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I just want to be entertained, sheeeesh!

[Nightwing1977]

But do you think it likely that an actor of Depp's fame and credibility will be satisfied in impersonating another actor's interpretation of a character? I doubt it very much.

Yep. I doubt Depp would ever want to replace Ledger's Joker after his passing. Depp surely must've respect the hell out of Ledger to do this. I hope other actors will feel the same too. Leave Ledger's Joker alone & don't recast him.

[StylishHokie21]

Yep. I doubt Depp would ever want to replace Ledger's Joker after his passing. Depp surely must've respect the hell out of Ledger to do this. I hope other actors will feel the same too. Leave Ledger's Joker alone & don't recast him.

Agreed.

[escobar2248]

Leave Ledger's Joker alone & don't recast him.

Especially if the performance is as iconic as everyone with the movie says it is. Leave it be and go on with another villian.

[gwynplaine]

Yep. I doubt Depp would ever want to replace Ledger's Joker after his passing. Depp surely must've respect the hell out of Ledger to do this. I hope other actors will feel the same too. Leave Ledger's Joker alone & don't recast him.
Good point. And Depp does indeed have a lot of respect for Ledger as he stepped in to play him, along side Colin Farell and Jude Law in "Mr Parnassus etc..." Terry Gilliam's last film. So that Heath's last performance would see the light of the day. So forget about Depp as the Joker.

[JokerLedger]

But do you think it likely that an actor of Depp's fame and credibility will be satisfied in impersonating another actor's interpretation of a character? I doubt it very much.

I can't speak on behalf of anybody.
But from what I've learned, fanboys aren't always right most of the time.

[-Crusher-]

No Depp!

[Kabuki_Jo]

This is ridiculous. Since when is playing the role from somebody who died a lack of respect?

[Ayumi_Vasquez]

The issue with that is some people think the Joker isn’t just any character. Fans are bewitched by Ledger and believe no one can do better.
Most of those people are either die hard Joker fans or Die hard Heath fans.
From the way we see him portraying his role, lots of people including myself, think
Heath Ledger is The Joker.
So it’d be blasphemy to re-cast.

Don’t get me wrong, in all honestly I’d love to see Joker back in the 3rd and if the producers intended him on being in the 3rd installment, he will be re-casted.

[-Crusher-]

i dont care if they recast, actually i hope they do, i want to see joker return in the nolan bat-franchise. but everyone thinks if they do recast joker that depp should do it.

i love depp, hes an amazing actor, but he should not play joker, he shouldnt even consider it. i dotn want to see him play joker ever.

[BurningBallroom]

i dont care if they recast, actually i hope they do, i want to see joker return in the nolan bat-franchise. but everyone thinks if they do recast joker that depp should do it.

i love depp, hes an amazing actor, but he should not play joker, he shouldnt even consider it. i dotn want to see him play joker ever.

As much as I adore Depp (the posters on my wall prove it) I just can't see him portraying the Joker. It doesn't suit him.

[-Crusher-]

its not that i dont think depp could pull it off. i just think he should steer clear of it. i dont think he should play the joker. i cant even explain why. i just disagree with the thought of him playing the role, whether it suits him or not.

[gwynplaine]

Isn't Depp almost 50 or something ? If they decide to recast and go with someone older I'd rather they chose Daniel Day Lewis..

[-Crusher-]

i have a feeling that if they do recast, nolan wont get depp.

[storm-shadowfan]

What if they recast Joker useing Joseph Gordon-Levitt? I think this would be a good choice.

[JStorm]

I think it has been said before, but I will write it as if it is my own.

CGI.

I am sure there is enough dialouge that is on screen, and off - things cut, retakes, etc - where Nolan can 'cut and splice' some sort of scene with Ledger's Joker for III.

My idea - and many others, I think - is to have Ledger's Joker CGI'ed in a dark Arkham cell and use the already recorded dialouge to make another scene.

The Joker does not HAVE to be in III. A story can revolve around Two-Face, with a hint of the Clown Prince - or not.

[fabman]

Everything but CGI, please...

[JStorm]

Everything but CGI, please...

Using a live person, dressed as the Joker does, or in Arkham apparel, with a CGI'ed Ledger-Joker face, in the shadows, where it is hard to make out, while dubbing some of Ledger's lines we've never heard before, doesn't sound that bad - to me.

[$klaary]

hope it is new.

http://www.pr-inside.com/caine-heath-terrified-me-r510378.htm

And who is this guy?

He also has a part in the upcoming Batman movie in a scene with actor Heath Ledger.

"It's a somewhat violent scene," Leahy said. "Heath Ledger (was) such a nice guy."

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080331/NEWS02/803310344/1003/NEWS02

[Gianakin_]

He's a US Senator. The 1st article is really old, the 2nd one is new.

[TLH]

I think it has been said before, but I will write it as if it is my own.

CGI.

I am sure there is enough dialouge that is on screen, and off - things cut, retakes, etc - where Nolan can 'cut and splice' some sort of scene with Ledger's Joker for III.

My idea - and many others, I think - is to have Ledger's Joker CGI'ed in a dark Arkham cell and use the already recorded dialouge to make another scene.

The Joker does not HAVE to be in III. A story can revolve around Two-Face, with a hint of the Clown Prince - or not.

I'm would think that the Joker's end in TDK will leave open both the possibility for his return as well as the possibility to leave it as it was.

[Damiean Dark]

Thers nothing wrong with Depp playing joker imo the idea he couldnt do it is ludicrus HELLO!!! captain jack?, edward scissorshands?, Willy Wonka?, Raoul duke?

and he isnt the type of actor to copy another actor he would bring his own interpretation to the table the idea that i would have to wait another 20 years or so to see another on screen joker gives me the shakes

[Nightwing1977]

Everything but CGI, please...

Nothing wrong with CGI. They done this before on Brandon Lee with "The Crow" & Oliver Reed on "Gladiator". As long you get a great CGI, you won't notice it. I didn't even know Reed was dead when I first saw Gladiator.

[darknight7]

If this isn't in the appropriate thread/forum, please merge as needed :up:. I've been reading alot of comments around here lately, and I decided to write up this short essay concerning my fear that people are setting insatiable expectations concerning Heath Ledger's performance.

-------------------
The Joker is a pop culture icon. He’s a staple to the Batman mythos, and is such a huge character, that even “the general public” knows who he is. The comic books, the television shows (both live action and animated), the Jack Nicholson portrayal in Tim Burton’s film. The fact is this: The Joker is a character not to be taken lightly, and the task of bringing him justice is a daunting task.

Heath Ledger is one of those actors who picks his roles based on whether or not he has something to offer the character. Ledger didn’t sign the contract because it was his chance to play a famous and iconic character, resulting in mainstream recognition and massive paychecks. He took the part because he saw a chance to breathe air into this character.

Heath is an exceptional actor, and this truth shines in his bringing The Joker to life. Dedicated, committed, and focused, he took measures to fall into the character’s psyche. He kept diaries, he coached his voice, and he brought ideas to the set every day. Anything he needed to do in order to further his character’s development. Whether it be little ticks The Joker has (such as tilting his head, or swaying his arms as he walks), or a child-like voice, these small things round out the character and make him all the more real.

People will love or hate Ledger’s performance. As much effort as he put into it, that’s just the way it is. Neither party is right or wrong. All the same, it’s indisputable that Ledger poured himself into the character, and offered the best of his talents.

Months before the movie’s release, and Heath’s performance is already being praised and acclaimed. “Iconic.” “Phenomenal.” “Breath-taking.” “Inspiring.” Now people are speculating as to whether or not this “iconic” performance is enough to earn Ledger a posthumous Oscar nomination in 2009. The movie hasn’t even been screened yet outside of Warner Brothers studios, and the hype for Ledger’s Joker just keeps on climbing.

My question is this: In the long run, will it live up to these elevating standards? If history has taught us anything, it’s that over-hyping something is dangerous territory. Is it wise for people to go into “The Dark Knight” under the notion that they are about to witness a guaranteed Oscar nominated performance? Is it wise to convince yourself that this will be the greatest villainous role of the last decade, so long before the movie’s release?

This individual says no, it isn’t.

Don’t get me wrong. Nothing would please me more than to walk out of the theater on July 18th with my mind completely blown away. Nothing would make me happier than to see Heath Ledger give one of the best performances I have ever seen. If that were to be the case, then I’d be first in line for the “Heath Ledger for Best Supporting Actor 2009” rally. But I can’t convince myself that these are certainties. There are still things about this character that I have yet to see, and won’t get to see until this July. Why set myself up for possible disappointment if I'm going into the movie nearly blind?

Boom I agree with you 100%
It is dangerious territory. The hype is rediculous.
From experience I know myself, too much hype has ruined MANY movies for me: The Hulk, Spider-Man 3, Superman Returns, X-Men 3, Sin City (yes mostly Marvel movies but that doesn't matter).

But movie that I have just gone to see out of interest, (300, I Am Legend, Transformers) were the movies that I enjoyed. Because these were the movies I was not hyped for, these were the movies that I was not very interested in. But because of this, they caught me off gaurd, they surprised me. Not saying these movies are neccessarily better than the others, I'm saying the hype factor was in play.

The movies I was hyped for...were let downs in more ways than one, where as the movies I was simply curious about, were more fun/excitement.

Not everyone likes 300, not everyone likes Transformers, and a lot of people hate I Am Legend, but I am stressing the fact that it was the pure shock/non hype value that caught me off gaurd. And I stress this because I am expecting someone to argue whether these movies were good or not, so don't bother lol.

So I agree with you Boom, and I am trying my best not to get over hyped. And to be quite honest. At this point I am not over hyped. But somewhere down the road, something tells me I am going to be dissapointed.

Whether it is the fact that The Joker will not get enough screentime, or the fact that he will be so amazing that I will be sad that I will never get to see the role reprised. Either way, I am expecting some sort of disappointment (not to sound like a pesimist).

Let's just hope for the best, and hope that the surprising factor (which will hopefully be Scarecrow and TwoFace) will catch us off gaurd, and make up for any downfalls for the Joker character.

I have no doubt that this movie will be a great one. It is Batman, and that is all that matters to me.

But I do agree 100% about the possibility of Joker being over hyped already. It could turn out for the worst...COULD!
Anytime

With no disrespect, no one cares about your "individual" thought
dont go about writing a short essay about it...come'on
because even you, well hell everyone knows your not in for a dissapointment

Just because you say no disrespect, doesn't mean you don't come across as being rude. It is his opinion, just like you have yours, so respect it...

And no...we do not all know that we are not in for a dissapointment. How could we know this 100%?

We can't. And that was Boom's point.

You are posting on a discussion forum. Therefore, you apparently believe your individual thought is worth hearing, so why not Boom's?

Moreover: if you don't want to hear other people's thoughts, why are you on a forum in the first place?

agreed.

keep talkin boom...

because i care.

good post.

As do I :)

--dk7

[TheBat812]

If this isn't in the appropriate thread/forum, please merge as needed :up:. I've been reading alot of comments around here lately, and I decided to write up this short essay concerning my fear that people are setting insatiable expectations concerning Heath Ledger's performance.

-------------------
The Joker is a pop culture icon. He’s a staple to the Batman mythos, and is such a huge character, that even “the general public” knows who he is. The comic books, the television shows (both live action and animated), the Jack Nicholson portrayal in Tim Burton’s film. The fact is this: The Joker is a character not to be taken lightly, and the task of bringing him justice is a daunting task.

Heath Ledger is one of those actors who picks his roles based on whether or not he has something to offer the character. Ledger didn’t sign the contract because it was his chance to play a famous and iconic character, resulting in mainstream recognition and massive paychecks. He took the part because he saw a chance to breathe air into this character.

Heath is an exceptional actor, and this truth shines in his bringing The Joker to life. Dedicated, committed, and focused, he took measures to fall into the character’s psyche. He kept diaries, he coached his voice, and he brought ideas to the set every day. Anything he needed to do in order to further his character’s development. Whether it be little ticks The Joker has (such as tilting his head, or swaying his arms as he walks), or a child-like voice, these small things round out the character and make him all the more real.

People will love or hate Ledger’s performance. As much effort as he put into it, that’s just the way it is. Neither party is right or wrong. All the same, it’s indisputable that Ledger poured himself into the character, and offered the best of his talents.

Months before the movie’s release, and Heath’s performance is already being praised and acclaimed. “Iconic.” “Phenomenal.” “Breath-taking.” “Inspiring.” Now people are speculating as to whether or not this “iconic” performance is enough to earn Ledger a posthumous Oscar nomination in 2009. The movie hasn’t even been screened yet outside of Warner Brothers studios, and the hype for Ledger’s Joker just keeps on climbing.

My question is this: In the long run, will it live up to these elevating standards? If history has taught us anything, it’s that over-hyping something is dangerous territory. Is it wise for people to go into “The Dark Knight” under the notion that they are about to witness a guaranteed Oscar nominated performance? Is it wise to convince yourself that this will be the greatest villainous role of the last decade, so long before the movie’s release?

This individual says no, it isn’t.

Don’t get me wrong. Nothing would please me more than to walk out of the theater on July 18th with my mind completely blown away. Nothing would make me happier than to see Heath Ledger give one of the best performances I have ever seen. If that were to be the case, then I’d be first in line for the “Heath Ledger for Best Supporting Actor 2009” rally. But I can’t convince myself that these are certainties. There are still things about this character that I have yet to see, and won’t get to see until this July. Why set myself up for possible disappointment if I'm going into the movie nearly blind?
While I agree that it's dangerous, I think it's hard to ignore the potential of the role: Heath Ledger was one of the most promising actors in the business, comparable to Daniel Day Lewis in technique, and this was truly his first break out role, which he himself said would be the most fun he'd likely ever have. It's hard to ignore the hype given these facts. At least for me. Not to mention, the role is iconic in itself. I've never been more excited to see a performance in my life, personally.

[darknight7]

Isn't Depp almost 50 or something ? If they decide to recast and go with someone older I'd rather they chose Daniel Day Lewis..

Wow! You know Gwyn, I never really though out Depp's age.

But I just looked it up...and ya...he is 45...

pretty close to 50. (I always thought 50 was so old when I was younger) But to me Depp seems so young

--dk7

[jmc]

I think it has been said before, but I will write it as if it is my own.

CGI.

I am sure there is enough dialouge that is on screen, and off - things cut, retakes, etc - where Nolan can 'cut and splice' some sort of scene with Ledger's Joker for III.

My idea - and many others, I think - is to have Ledger's Joker CGI'ed in a dark Arkham cell and use the already recorded dialouge to make another scene.

The Joker does not HAVE to be in III. A story can revolve around Two-Face, with a hint of the Clown Prince - or not.

I suggested something similar and got hounded by some people for it. I don't think a fully CGI version is a good idea, I suggested that if there are any scenes from Dark Knight unused (and there must be hours of footage) that can be used in a different context with a combination of CGI and Joker stand-ins/stunt doubles for various shots, the option should be considered it would solve the problem of recasting. It's been rumoured Joker's role would only be minimal so something like this could work.

[branwen]

Maybe there are some who would consider this sacrilege but for my part I wouldn't mind seeing unused Joker footage in III. And barring that, I wouldn't mind seeing them as outtakes when the DVD comes out. But that's just me.....

[jmc]

^ You'd be surprised how some editing tweaks can totally change the context of a scene.

[Damiean Dark]

Forget CGI its a hit and miss affair a 100+ movie like I Am Legend can have terrible CGI effects dispite its budget and a far cheaper movie like the Firefly spin off movie Serenity can have some of the best designed effects i have seen in a long while. and dont trust producers and directors to differentiate between bad and good effects a lot of them know **** all about the genre.

[Damiean Dark]

Depp as Joker would rule for me he is one of the best around debates would rage for a decade over who was the better joker me personally? i think Depp would be better just on the strength of his character acting past and extra nuance he brings to roles.

[TNC9852002]

No way. Depp is going to become a nuisance on-screen because his performance will always be similar to what we've seen already. What makes Ledger's performance so invigorating is that we've never seen this actor do anything like this before.

If you're going to replace him, use someone that's never done anything like this.

Ryan Gosling, perhaps?

-TNC

[StylishHokie21]

What about Joseph Gordon-Levitt? He sort of resembles Heath.

[TNC9852002]

Oh yeah, definitely. He's got a smaller frame, but I guess it's okay. His age is a little harder to hide, though...Not necessarily him, but you get the idea of course.

-TNC

[Carlynn Carnage]

I think he'll bring something new to the roll. I think he'll be excellent!

[TNC9852002]

Dinner roll? :p

-TNC

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

NO RE-CAST!!!lol

[CorpusBlack]

What about Joseph Gordon-Levitt? He sort of resembles Heath.

He'd be my first pick. :up:

[Octoberist]

Wow! You know Gwyn, I never really though out Depp's age.

But I just looked it up...and ya...he is 45...

pretty close to 50. (I always thought 50 was so old when I was younger) But to me Depp seems so young

--dk7

Johnny Depp looks like he's in his early 30s still. Honestly, he's immortal, and I DON'T alot of people know that he's that old.

[Symbiotic]

He'd be my first pick. :up:Same here. IF Nolan had planned on J making an appearance in B3, he shouldn't have to take a different course.

[CorpusBlack]

Same here. IF Nolan had planned on J making an appearance in B3, he shouldn't have to take a different course.

I wholeheartedly agree. I know a lot of people would be pissed about that, but as cold as it may sound to some, life and business have to go on. I wouldn't consider a recast in the third film to be a slap in the face to Heath's legacy or the role itself.

[-Crusher-]

agreed.


ledger did an amazing thing with the joker. but just because the actor died doesnt mean the character should die with him.

i think ledger has been past long enough for me to say, that as great of an actor he was. the legacy of the joker is much older and much bigger.

to big to kill him off because the actor who played him died.


and like i said many times, if Nolans plan was to have joker in B3, then joker will be in B3.
no matter what.

[Mr. Socko]

Johnny Depp looks like he's in his early 30s still. Honestly, he's immortal, and I DON'T alot of people know that he's that old.

He was in his late 20s in Edward Scissorhands, I use to think for sure that Edward was a damn teenager!

[Eggyman]

He was in his late 20s in Edward Scissorhands, I use to think for sure that Edward was a damn teenager!

Ayyyy not seen you in a time mate :)


Agreed about Depp. He looks awesome for his age. Christ, he looks awesome for someone who's in their 30s.

And when he does start to age, you can bet that it'll only add to his charm like others who are gifted with baby faces :)

[robonob]

I think nolan should go out on a limb picking someone who he thoguht fit the part perfectly, like he thought heath did. even if its a "nobody" actor. we all had to imagine heath as the joker, we had to trust that nolan made the right decision and now we KNOW he did. im thinking IF joker was gonna be in the 3rd. Nolan would pick the right guy to fit the part. My opinion.

[Mr. Socko]

Ayyyy not seen you in a time mate :)


Agreed about Depp. He looks awesome for his age. Christ, he looks awesome for someone who's in their 30s.

And when he does start to age, you can bet that it'll only add to his charm like others who are gifted with baby faces :)

Yeah it's been a while Eggy, nice to see you:woot:

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I liked a previous posters comment about how... (as cold as it sounds) because Heath has died, does not mean the character of the Joker should die.

HOWEVER...

I do think this version of the character should go with him... meaning after 'The Dark Knight', no more Joker within this franchise.

It would be unfair for any actor to take up after Heath... with fans possibly saying how he is inferior to Heath own performance.

The Joker is immortal... but this version isn't... not any more!

Just my opinion!

[ironwez20]

i hope they dont kill off the joker all because of heaths death

[The Battousai]

Stop posting that! :cmad:

[LegendaryCaleb]

stop whoring your pictures...

[xero1186]

Here is how I want to see TDK end.

Joker is put in Arkham, we move on and focus on Two-face.

[redfirebird2008]

Here is how I want to see TDK end.

Joker is put in Arkham, we move on and focus on Two-face.

More specifically, Joker is put in Arkham in the restraining jacket, laughing his ass off!

[robonob]

More specifically, Joker is put in Arkham in the restraining jacket, laughing his ass off!
joker in arkham, talking to some of the other inmates... plotting...

[CaptainStacy]

More specifically, Joker is put in Arkham in the restraining jacket, laughing his ass off!

Absolutely!

[Nepenthes]

What about Joseph Gordon-Levitt? He sort of resembles Heath.

Is that the best way to recast the Joker though, someone who merely *looks* like Heath? It's not gonna fool us into thinking it's him or that the Joker hasn't changed. To me that's like casting Crispin Glover simply because he looks like the Joker. Different artists draw the Joker in the comics anyway. IMO it's best move on and get someone who can put their own twist on the role again and make it great in their own right. That should be priority, not looks. If you cast a lookalike you're basically saying you expect a repeat of Heaths performance. That's pointless.