WB & DC: The Plan For Superman

[superbaby]

WB, don't try too hard to faithfully continue from SR. afterall, SR is sending wrong messages, and it has too many bad attachments.

you would have no time to introduce new villains, to develop the new plot, the characters of clark kent, superman & lois lane, and to get the public involved if you went to develop the kid storyline; the superman & the kid relationship, the triangular love, to explain richard white and to bring lex luthor back into business.

if you made a faithful sequel of SR, it would only lead you to dead end and kill the superman movie franchise all together.

pls just make a good superman movie. the metallo & brainiac episodes of the animation of superman are some of the examples of a good structure superman film you can refer to.

add -
... But even looking to the future, I'm skeptical about the sequel. The thing about Superman 3 and 4 is that those were bad films, but they didn't tarnish Supes character so much that a good sequel to those couldn't be made. It's sort of like James Bond franchise, some additions are campy and others are more serious. However, with Superman Returns, Singer has written himself into a box and tarnished the potential of this franchise. All sequels have to be set up on Singer's silly premises and bad characterization of Superman.

[The Kid]

hmmm, doubt it. This is the studio that greenlit a script inwhich superman and his son kill people.

[Retroman]

Lee, who will return as executive producer of the film, hosted "Superman Returns" director Bryan Singer and producer Jon Peters at a wide-ranging discussion with ACM students today at UH.

Singer and Peters are in Honolulu this week to celebrate Lee's birthday, and to begin planning the next Superman film, which will likely begin production mid- to late next year in a location yet to be determined. "Superman Returns" was shot in Sydney, Australia, with four ACM students serving as interns.
Source: http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Nov/08/br/br0948627351.html

Why is he still involved with the Superman franchise?:huh:

[KaptainKrypton]

The ink on his involvement dried on the dotted line a long time ago, and at this point he's one of many involved, and definitely not the top dog. After his string of box-office triumphs that was capped off with Wild, Wild, West, I don't think Peters is doing anything at this point but counting his blessings he's even allowed on the Warner lot. WB monitors the comments on sites like this one and Superman Cinema, and I've never heard a positive thing said about Peters, with exception to those who don't know any better at the time. He's what would happen if cancer wore sunglasses and had a seventh grade reading level. I just hope they set him in the corner of every meeting he's at, give him a Lunchable and a ball of yarn, and just allow him to keep himself occupied.

[Showtime]

I just watched the DVD again this weekend, and his name is one of the first two flash across the screen, "A John Peters Film" or something similar.

[SolidSnakeMGS]

I just watched the DVD again this weekend, and his name is one of the first two flash across the screen, "A John Peters Film" or something similar.

No, the director always gets the "A ___ ____ Film" credit, in this case "A Bryan Singer Film". The title credit was "A Jon Peters Production", which still irks me since I loathe the man.

[superbaby]

ya, silly me. what was i thinking.
why still dreaming... sad.

[Retroman]

I'd feel a whole lot better if he wasn't involved at all.He's one of the main reasons Superman took so long to get off the ground in the first place.But i guess he's got some kind of airtight contract that gives him the right to stay on board.Lets hope for the best.

[Kabuki_Jo]

Let's hope for the best indeed.
Singer + Peters is a combination capable of destroying the Superman Franchise forever.

[Showtime]

No, the director always gets the "A ___ ____ Film" credit, in this case "A Bryan Singer Film". The title credit was "A Jon Peters Production", which still irks me since I loathe the man.

As I said, "something similar." :cwink:

It doesn't bother me in the least since he is merely a figurehead and is there to help pump up interest along with merchandising. The man apologized and admited he was wrong. It was crazy times for awhile there at WB.

[Retroman]

Crazy is putting it mildly.:o

[matrix_ghost]

Does he also hold the rights to the superman character :huh:
I mean to stay that long attached to the franchise , it can't be that WB contractually obliged to use him with the movie ....right ?

Or is he also involved as one of the (WB) people who bring the the $$$ for the budget

[Retroman]

Does he also hold the rights to the superman character :huh:
I mean to stay that long attached to the franchise , it can't be that WB contractually obliged to use him with the movie ....right ?

Or is he also involved as one of the (WB) people who bring the the $$$ for the budget
I'm not 100% sure but i think Peters co-owns the rights to new Superman movies.Not sure for how long.

[Showtime]

He's a non-factor and is actually a merchandising guru, which helps with the extras.

[Pickle-El]

Let's hope for the best indeed.
Singer + Peters is a combination capable of destroying the Superman Franchise forever.


If this was true, SR's 2nd weekend would have been something like 7 million dollars......as the initial flock from the first week was disgusted, and POTC2 was cleaning up the rest with 135 Million over 3 days. Oh, and SR would have been dead at about 80-100 Million dollars. That would have been the death of a new Superman franchise.

Obviously, that didn't happen, did it?

[Kabuki_Jo]

If this was true, SR's 2nd weekend would have been something like 7 million dollars......as the initial flock from the first week was disgusted, and POTC2 was cleaning up the rest with 135 Million over 3 days. Oh, and SR would have been dead at about 80-100 Million dollars. That would have been the death of a new Superman franchise.

Obviously, that didn't happen, did it?

No, it didn't...but what exactly is your point?

[matthooper]

If this was true, SR's 2nd weekend would have been something like 7 million dollars......as the initial flock from the first week was disgusted, and POTC2 was cleaning up the rest with 135 Million over 3 days. Oh, and SR would have been dead at about 80-100 Million dollars. That would have been the death of a new Superman franchise.

Obviously, that didn't happen, did it?


Almost. If $200 million was the point where Sony decided whether to make a sequel, then it made just 81 thousand dollars more than it needed. Cutting it pretty close I'd say.

Do you have any idea how many movies have made more money? ...70, 70 movies have made more. Including stuff like Signs, Rush Hour 2, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, Armageddon, MI:2, Meet the Fockers.....My Big Fat Greek Wedding made more!

The public voted with their movie dollars and decided that Rush Hour 2 was better. Pretty sad. This is Superman for heavens sake!

Whether smeone liked it or not is not the point, as far as BO goes, it was a huge dissapointment.

[CConn]

Shockingly, most consider SR to be a good Superman movie.

[BareKnucklez]

Shockingly, most consider SR to be a good Superman movie.

Shocking! Where are these people you speak off because the majority of the fan base spoke up clearly when the movie failed to even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice domestically.

Let alone live up to the hype... People simply didn't like the movie overall, and the boxoffice numbers don't lie...

[superbaby]

Shocking! Where are these people you speak off because the majority of the fan base spoke up clearly when the movie failed to even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice domestically.

Let alone live up to the hype... People simply didn't like the movie overall, and the boxoffice numbers don't lie...

bingo! SR is such a huge let down. it's senseless and pointless. seriously, Singer had no idea to do a superman movie, aside of copying directly scene by scene from STM.

[dark_b]

hmmm, doubt it. This is the studio that greenlit a script inwhich superman and his son kill people.:o:whatever::cool:

[Mentok]

SR is sending wrong messages,

Its sending the wrong messages?


you would have no time to introduce new villains, to develop the new plot, the characters of clark kent, superman & lois lane,

Thay are already doing that.

if you made a faithful sequel of SR, it would only lead you to dead end and kill the superman movie franchise all together.

You lack any vision. I can think of over a dozen different ways to move from SR all sticking heavily with the SR plot.

Its pointless to worry about that anyway since SR was supposed to end the Donner films and provide an opening into a newer universe (something it didnt do very well)

[chosen1]

I call for a redo.

[Dark_Lord]

These threads need to stop cause you already know that WB will go with Singer and continue from SR....Deal with it.
If you dont like it then dont watch the sequel. Wait for this Superman franchise to end and wait for the next one.

[phil]

SR is a big slap in the face to Superman, They don't get it, they think the only problem was the lack of action. It's sad that there will be a sequel. We got a weak Superman and we will get another one that will hurt the Superman movie business. Singer was the absolute worse thing that has ever happened to the Man of Steel.

[Maze]

Shocking! Where are these people you speak off because the majority of the fan base spoke up clearly when the movie failed to even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice domestically.

Let alone live up to the hype... People simply didn't like the movie overall, and the boxoffice numbers don't lie...
yes they did,

And the majority did like it at the hype too (look at most of the polls , Sr is even considered one of the most appreciated comics books movie of all time )and certainly by the public : yes , it didn't make pirates number , but it did make a huge amount of money and especially had good legs: after a disapointing beginning , the movie had almost the same career as Batman Begins in the us ( but did make more money worldwide )

Personnaly , the movie could have flopped and could be hated by everybody , it would not change my enjoyment, but that is far from being the case ..do your research.

[JamalYIgle]

bingo! SR is such a huge let down. it's senseless and pointless. seriously, Singer had no idea to do a superman movie, aside of copying directly scene by scene from STM.
Really?
I don't remember a scene in STM where Superman get's stabbed in the back with a kryptonite shank, Lifts a Kryptonite laced Continent into orbit, Saves the citizens of Metropolis from a major disaster, catches the Daily planet globe, ends up in a hospital having human's save his life, or a half kryptonian son. Nope none of those things are in STM and the stuff that was homaged was done on purpose.

[Maze]

I can think of over a dozen different ways to move from SR all sticking heavily with the SR plot.
Ditto .

[dark_b]

Really?
I don't remember a scene in STM where Superman get's stabbed in the back with a kryptonite shank, Lifts a Kryptonite laced Continent into orbit, Saves the citizens of Metropolis from a major disaster, catches the Daily planet globe, ends up in a hospital having human's save his life, or a half kryptonian son. Nope none of those things are in STM and the stuff that was homaged was done on purpose.WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO W

i never thought that this was possible. superman saved people in metropolis from a disaster? brialiant :wow:

[phil]

Really?
I don't remember a scene in STM where Superman get's stabbed in the back with a kryptonite shank, Lifts a Kryptonite laced Continent into orbit, Saves the citizens of Metropolis from a major disaster, catches the Daily planet globe, ends up in a hospital having human's save his life, or a half kryptonian son. Nope none of those things are in STM and the stuff that was homaged was done on purpose.

lol, c'mon now, the movie was packed with campy homages, the same outline, same Jorel, same stupid real estate story. Stupid one liners copying STM line for line. I could go on and on.

"How many F's in catastrophe?" :whatever:

[Maze]

Really?
I don't remember a scene in STM where Superman get's stabbed in the back with a kryptonite shank, Lifts a Kryptonite laced Continent into orbit, Saves the citizens of Metropolis from a major disaster, catches the Daily planet globe, ends up in a hospital having human's save his life, or a half kryptonian son. Nope none of those things are in STM and the stuff that was homaged was done on purpose.
Exactly.

And the visual style ,the tone , and most of the thematics were not the same .

[Maze]

lol, c'mon now, the movie was packed with campy homages, the same outline, same Jorel, same stupid real estate story. Stupid one liners copying STM line for line. I could go on and on.

"How many F's in catastrophe?" :whatever:
How about no?

Seriously ,the problem is that some of you can't accept that some people saw the movie differently than you.

ok you didn't like it ( and you're not alone) okk .. well i did , and you can say all you wan't that it was stupid and a retread i didn't get that .

sorry that you didn't like it.

[phil]

I'm sorry you did like it because it wasn't even close to second rate for Superman.

[Maze]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

i never thought that this was possible. superman saved people in metropolis from a disaster? brialiant :wow:
yup.

and you can bet that he will in one of the next issue of action comics ..:cwink:

That's what he does.

[Maze]

I'm sorry you did like it
Personnaly , i don't wish people a bad time at the movies.if they did like a movie that i didn't : good for them .

But, ok ;)

because it wasn't even close to second rate for Superman
That's your opinion

We could go on , and so what?

have fun have the last word.

[phil]

Well if that's what he does he has to cut back on that because he has a child to look after now. And I'm sure he just can't take off in the middle of a T-Ball game to save people.
Hopefully in the sequel the custody battle won't be too hard on the kid. And also I hope they let down the guy who thinks the kid is really his easy.

[Maze]

Well if that's what he does he has to cut back on that because he has a child to look after now. And I'm sure he just can't take off in the middle of a T-Ball game to save people.
.
yup and that's one of the things that i think is interesting..it just add drama imo..and humanity to Superman.

[phil]

Just turn on your TV in the middle of the day and take your pic from the different Soap Opera's to get this lame-ass story you like.
Who's the father love triangle is no place for SUPERMAN!

[phil]

What's also no place for Superman is dark bland colors on a suit that looks like Brittany Spears would wear and a dark feel like your in the X-Men Univearse. Singer should be ashamed of himself.

[Maze]

Just turn on your TV in the middle of the day and take your pic from the different Soap Opera's to get this lame-ass story you like.
!
Not soap opera .Drama.

I don't like soap opera.

in a soap opera , people go on and on about the same topic without ever advancing the story for example..

ps: again calm down it's an exchange of opinion period.

[Maze]

What's also no place for Superman is dark bland colors on a suit that looks like Brittany Spears would wear and a dark feel like your in the X-Men Univearse. Singer should be ashamed of himself.
No.

he has nothing to be ashamed of.

you didn't like it , that's another thing.

That's Singer take on that universe (and a modern one ) like there are countless version of Superman in the comics ( elseworld and even "continuity" )

ps: Singer characters have often more of an "Armani" style..

[The Kid]

Cuz we all know when you think SUPERMAN, you think HOMEWRECKER. :woot:

[superbaby]

These threads need to stop cause you already know that WB will go with Singer and continue from SR....Deal with it.
If you dont like it then dont watch the sequel. Wait for this Superman franchise to end and wait for the next one.
no, i don't know for sure that WB will go with Singer and continue from SR until i see the end result.

superman lives, superman flyby & Superman vs batman, WB were very happy with those too. and we thought they gonna take off too. but you know the ending..

so there is always hope.

[superbaby]

No.

he has nothing to be ashamed of.

you didn't like it , that's another thing.

That's Singer take on that universe (and a modern one ) like there are countless version of Superman in the comics ( elseworld and even "continuity" )

ps: Singer characters have often more of an "Armani" style..

singer should be ashamed of himself because he is visionless and has no idea to do a superman story.

just take the flying in the metropolis scenes as example. there are so damn poor and unexciting. totally suck.

[Maze]

singer should be ashamed of himself because he is visionless and has no idea to do a superman story.

just take the flying in the metropolis scenes as example. there are so damn poor and unexciting. totally suck.
Your opinion , i thought they were exciting and the movie was epic .

Singer has a great vision imo ,you don't. that's all there is to say in conclusion.

[Maze]

Cuz we all know when you think SUPERMAN, you think HOMEWRECKER. :woot:
Nope.

he hesitated , begun to try to ger her back, but let her go when he understood that he had messed up ,and that she had a family now.

that's what i call a hero. (and you can call him whatever you wan't of course :D ;) )

[hippie_hunter]

WB, don't try too hard to faithfully continue from SR. afterall, SR is sending wrong messages, and it has too many bad attachments.

you would have no time to introduce new villains, to develop the new plot, the characters of clark kent, superman & lois lane, and to get the public involved if you went to develop the kid storyline; the superman & the kid relationship, the triangular love, to explain richard white and to bring lex luthor back into business.

if you made a faithful sequel of SR, it would only lead you to dead end and kill the superman movie franchise all together.

pls just make a good superman movie. the metallo & brainiac episodes of the animation of superman are some of the examples of a good structure superman film you can refer to.

Dear Superman Returns haters like superbaby,

Stop acting like you represent all of the views of Superman Returns and all of the fans of Superman. There are many people who like the movie and as a matter in fact, a majority of people liked it, they just either
A. Don't post on this board.
B. Don't post on this forum period.
C. The movie has a majority of good reviews, a 76% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and has a 7.0/10 on IMDB.

There are some things you people have to know:
1. Superman Returns made $391 million from a budget of $204 million. It probally would have done quite a bit better if Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest did not come out the next week. By the way, Batman Begins made $371 million, less than Superman Returns.
2. Singer is going to direct the sequel and it is going to be a sequel to Superman Returns. DEAL WITH IT!

Now that, that has been said, the least we can do on these forums is say what we want for the next Superman movie. And don't say "Fire Singer" or "Singer doesn't get Superman" or "This movie is going to suck." We all know that Warner Bros. reads these boards and those kind of things are just going to phase right through them. "No Zod" or "Please put Brainiac in" or "No campy Lex" or "More action," things that would improve upon the sequel, that is what is going to get through them.

I'm going to nit-pick through the rest of your messsage now:

you would have no time to introduce new villains, to develop the new plot, the characters of clark kent, superman & lois lane, and to get the public involved if you went to develop the kid storyline; the superman & the kid relationship, the triangular love, to explain richard white and to bring lex luthor back into business.
That's BS and you know that. A sequel to Superman Returns can easily introduce a new villain (which has been confirmed, but who, Zod, Brainiac, who knows). The plot is always developed in a movie (either poorly or awesomely is up in the air). And Superman Returns already went into depth on the characters of Clark Kent, Superman, and Lois Lane.

if you made a faithful sequel of SR, it would only lead you to dead end and kill the superman movie franchise all together.
Unless the sequel to Superman Returns is as bad as Batman and Robin, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, Supergirl, Steel, or Catwoman, it is not going to kill the Superman movie franchise. The movies I mentioned, THOSE are franchise killers.

pls just make a good superman movie. the metallo & brainiac episodes of the animation of superman are some of the examples of a good structure superman film you can refer to.
And what about the people who found Superman Returns rather enjoyable. Are a good chunk of those who watched Superman Returns just simply ignorable? You can't ignore them just like those who hated the movie can't be ignored.

[The Kid]

Nope.

he hesitated , begun to try to ger her back, but let her go when he understood that he had messed up ,and that she had a family now.

that's what i call a hero. (and you can call him whatever you wan't of course :D ;) )

NOPE TOO LATE. BOY THREW PIANO. HOME = WRECKED.

[superbaby]

You lack any vision. I can think of over a dozen different ways to move from SR all sticking heavily with the SR plot.

Its pointless to worry about that anyway since SR was supposed to end the Donner films and provide an opening into a newer universe (something it didnt do very well)

this is the lamest excuse i'd ever heard & you are buying it. c'mon. get a brain. transitional *****. STM was almost 30 years ago. everybody are ready to move on and celebrate a new superman movie. however this visionless singer gave us a poorly copy version of STM.

WAKE UP WB!!! singer is as awful as Mcg if not worse than him!

[hippie_hunter]

no, i don't know for sure that WB will go with Singer and continue from SR until i see the end result.
It's pretty sure. The first of three movies has already been made and is a success (abeit a rather disapointing one), the cast has been locked down, the director has been locked down. It's going to happen.

superman lives, superman flyby & Superman vs batman, WB were very happy with those too. and we thought they gonna take off too. but you know the ending..
Warner Bros were originally happy with Superman Lives, but the longer it took the project to start, the less and less excited they were about it.

Once Ratner was gone and the script reviews for Superman Flyby came in, Warner Bros. lost any interest in Superman Flyby.

Warner Bros. quickly ditched Batman vs. Superman for individual Batman and Superman movies.

so there is always hope.
I guess you can waste your time hoping :o

[Maze]

NOPE TOO LATE. BOY THREW PIANO. HOME = WRECKED.
nope.

so the boy threw a piano... so? what impact it has on his family? does Richard know it?

does even the kid realized that the man is actually dead? there are chances that you don't die from it , you know.. and even if that was the case , even if he knows , he has killed a man who wanted to harm his mother..So yes in a lot of case psychiatrist time :woot: and richard could learn all of it.. so ? that's what i call drama ..and that doesnt' make Superman a home wreker.

Ps: no need to yell that doesn't change anything.

[Maze]

this is the lamest excuse i'd ever heard & you are buying it. c'mon. get a brain. transitional *****. STM was almost 30 years ago. everybody are ready to move on and celebrate a new superman movie. however this visionless singer gave us a poorly copy version of STM.

WAKE UP WB!!! singer is as awful as Mcg if not worse than him!
Nope,

your opinion .

and i hope that you are not going to continue to insult people.

[superbaby]

2. Singer is going to direct the sequel and it is going to be a sequel to Superman Returns. DEAL WITH IT!


years ago, they were a few directors had signed the deals with WB and we thought they were gonna do the movie. you know titanic can be sunk too. :o

[hippie_hunter]

WAKE UP WB!!! singer is as awful as Mcg if not worse than him!

Singer: X-Men, X-2: X-Men United, Superman Returns, Usual Suspects, Apt Pupil

McG: Charlies Angels, Charlies Angels: Full Throtle, music videos

Singer: brought a faithful interpretation of Donner's Superman

McG: was going to direct a Superman movie that had a suit in a can, a Kryptonian Lex Luthor who was a CIA agent, a prophecy of Superman going back to Krypton and saving it, Krypton not even exploding, and other lame ass ideas.

Singer: nobody's puppet

McG: Jon Peters' puppet

Singer: was able to restart the Superman project right from scratch and manage to get it out within 2 years

McG: took the reigns from Ratner and still managed to keep it in development hell

Yeah, Singer is just as bad if not worse than McG :whatever:

[The Kid]

nope.

so the boy threw a piano... so? what impact it has on his family? does Richard know it?

does even the kid realized that the man is actually dead? there are chances that you don't die from it , you know.. and even if that was the case , even if he knows , he has killed a man who wanted to harm his mother..So yes in a lot of case pyschiatrist time :woot: and richard could learn it.. so ? that's what i call drama ..and that doesnt' make Superman a home wreker.

Ps: no need to yell that doesn't change anything.

NOOOOOOOOOOPE. Can't pretzel your way out of this one. :wow:

Even Superboy keeping Dick out of the Loop makes his home wrecked if they can't even trust each other.

SuperHomewrecker will get lois and Dick will get Kitty.

And this isn't drama, it's a custody battle.

[hippie_hunter]

years ago, they were a few directors had signed the deals with WB and we thought they were gonna do the movie. you know titanic can be sunk too. :o

But Superman Returns was a success while the other projects never got off the ground!

The sequel is going to happen, stop being in denial.

[superbaby]

nope.

so the boy threw a piano... so? what impact it has on his family? does Richard know it?

does even the kid realized that the man is actually dead? there are chances that you don't die from it , you know.. and even if that was the case , even if he knows , he has killed a man who wanted to harm his mother..So yes in a lot of case psychiatrist time :woot: and richard could learn all of it.. so ? that's what i call drama ..and that doesnt' make Superman a home wreker.

Ps: no need to yell that doesn't change anything.
the lesson to be learned... kill in your young age. no wonder there are so many gun shooting in the school compus these days.

[Maze]

Dear Superman Returns haters like superbaby,

Stop acting like you represent all of the views of Superman Returns and all of the fans of Superman. There are many people who like the movie and as a matter in fact, a majority of people liked it, they just either
A. Don't post on this board.
B. Don't post on this forum period.
C. The movie has a majority of good reviews, a 76% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and has a 7.0/10 on IMDB.

There are some things you people have to know:
1. Superman Returns made $391 million from a budget of $204 million. It probally would have done quite a bit better if Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest did not come out the next week. By the way, Batman Begins made $371 million, less than Superman Returns.
2. Singer is going to direct the sequel and it is going to be a sequel to Superman Returns. DEAL WITH IT!

Now that, that has been said, the least we can do on these forums is say what we want for the next Superman movie. And don't say "Fire Singer" or "Singer doesn't get Superman" or "This movie is going to suck." We all know that Warner Bros. reads these boards and those kind of things are just going to phase right through them. "No Zod" or "Please put Brainiac in" or "No campy Lex" or "More action," things that would improve upon the sequel, that is what is going to get through them.

I'm going to nit-pick through the rest of your messsage now:


That's BS and you know that. A sequel to Superman Returns can easily introduce a new villain (which has been confirmed, but who, Zod, Brainiac, who knows). The plot is always developed in a movie (either poorly or awesomely is up in the air). And Superman Returns already went into depth on the characters of Clark Kent, Superman, and Lois Lane.


Unless the sequel to Superman Returns is as bad as Batman and Robin, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, Supergirl, Steel, or Catwoman, it is not going to kill the Superman movie franchise. The movies I mentioned, THOSE are franchise killers.


And what about the people who found Superman Returns rather enjoyable. Are a good chunk of those who watched Superman Returns just simply ignorable? You can't ignore them just like those who hated the movie can't be ignored.

you just perfectly summarised (in in-depth :woot: ) all there is to say :cwink:

[matthooper]

I can respect anyone who liked the film. I liked plenty of films that were considered mediocre or dissapointments, however, I can't respect anyone's opinion calling the film original or imaginative. The studio was scared by Burton and others by their visions of Superman. They went with the safe play, and we got SR.

What can't be argued is that even if the majority of filmgoers liked the film, there was little passion. That was certainly refelected in the Box office.

[Maze]

the lesson to be learned... kill in your young age. no wonder there are so many gun shooting in the school compus these days.
So, I guess you could say that the Hulk is the cause for this kind of problem too ?

Nope , that's how you intepret things that's all.

[Maze]

however, I can't respect anyone's opinion calling the film original or imaginative. S

But you're going to respect them and learn that maybe your taste doesn't see that this movie was neither mediocre or uncreative.

your opinion , that is all.

[The Kid]

It was an extremely expensive fan film, that's what.

[Maze]

NOOOOOOOOOOPE. Can't pretzel your way out of this one. :wow:

Even Superboy keeping Dick out of the Loop makes his home wrecked if they can't even trust each other.

SuperHomewrecker will get lois and Dick will get Kitty.

And this isn't drama, it's a custody battle.
Nope. superman didn't have the desire and /the will to wreck anything .. so he is not one.

ps: and you can continue , i have still some time :D

[Maze]

It was an extremely expensive fan film, that's what.
Your opinion.

imo it was a great movie.

you see , you think that it was an extremely expensive fan film,i think this is a great movie. Voilaa :yay:

[superbaby]

Singer: was able to restart the Superman project right from scratch and manage to get it out within 2 years

how? by copying directly from STM but failing capturing the spirit?

the only reason singer got the project was because WB was in desperate and lost.

[The Kid]

The lesson learned?

When in doubt, plagiarize.

[superbaby]

The lesson learned?

When in doubt, plagiarize.
lol.

what an easy world. :D

[Maze]

The lesson learned?

When in doubt, plagiarize.
Nope, the movie ressemble superficially to the Donner one : plot points ,some dialogue ,and some visuals ( that Singer shot in his own way )

if Singer plagiarised him for that then a lot of great movie plagiarize other ( beginning with the Spiderman movie who have taken a lot from Donner , beginning with the tone , unlike Singer )

[The Kid]

Nope, the movie ressemble superficially to the Donner one : plot points ,some dialogue ,and some visuals ( that Singer shot in his own way )

if Singer plagiarised him for that then a lot of great movie plagiarize other ( beginning with the Spiderman movie who have taken a lot from Donner , beginning with the tone , unlike Singer )
:yay:

*throws wig at maze*

You can keep that. I'll keep hoping for a director to come along who lives in this day and age.

[Showtime]

It won't happen anytime soon, maybe the 3rd installment, if not then Batman vs Superman might have a different director.

[The Kid]

I still have some hope. If Singer can erase the last two movies and random occurances from the first two films, what rule is there that says someone can't erase returns and start nice and fresh?

[Maze]

:yay:

*throws wig at maze*

You can keep that. I'll keep hoping for a director to come along who lives in this day and age.
Lol :yay: :cwink: Your opinion :woot: :cwink: :yay:

Or you can say that directo'rs who give timelless look to their movie LIke Burton or Gilliam for example doesn't live in this day or age too..(and they are even more extreme examples)

imo , sometimes with this kind of characters , that is a good thing , if not they look kind of ridiculous and their movie ages ( as much as i like the Donner movies they do feel dated )

[The Kid]

Nope. superman didn't have the desire and /the will to wreck anything .. so he is not one.

ps: and you can continue , i have still some time :D

The family is wrecked. End of story.

[The Kid]

Your opinion.

imo it was a great movie.

you see , you think that it was an extremely expensive fan film,i think this is a great movie. Voilaa :yay:

It's my opinion? Hey mom! I gots me an opinion!!!

And i agree. It's a great movie to ruin superman, if that's what you wanted.

[The Incredible Hulk]

The film didnt have good "legs." It got a nice bump from the IMAX theaters which saved it from being a complete disaster but in no way did it have legs. It was basically out of regular theaters by Labor Day and was the 8th slowest film ever to $200 million, and as soon as it hit that mark, it dropped from it's remaining dollar theaters before you could blink....

The lack of action, originality, and a charismatic cast really hurt this film, though I blame most of the cast issues on the direction except for Bosworth who was just deplorable in the role of Lois. Dont even get me started on that kid. That thing will be an anchor on this franchise going forward.

As they say in the R&D field, Blow it up and start over.

[Maze]

The family is wrecked. End of story.
No, not the end ,or a lot of great movie ( like kramer vs Kramer) would be quite boring. and it promise to be interesting imo..

after that to each their own.

[The Kid]

Lol :yay: :cwink: Your opinion :woot: :cwink: :yay:

Or you can say that directo'rs who give timelless look to their movie LIke Burton or Gilliam for example doesn't live in this day or age too..(and they are even more extreme examples)

imo , sometimes with this kind of characters , that is a good thing , if not they look kind of ridiculous and their movie ages ( as much as i like the Donner movies they do feel dated )

Again it's my opinion. I can't believe it. Oh my god, I don't deserve all these great opinions, but thank you all. I just want to thank also my parents, and my wife for always being there for me. I couldn't have won all these opinions without you all....

And you can say what you want but I'll still remember that burton forever washed Adam west from the public's memories of batman... then nolan sort of did the same with burton's batman... Singer? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR.

NOPE.

[Maze]

The film didnt have good "legs." It got a nice bump from the IMAX theaters which saved it from being a complete disaster but in no way did it have legs. It was basically out of regular theaters by Labor Day and was the 8th slowest film ever to $200 million, and as soon as it hit that mark, it dropped from it's remaining dollar theaters before you could blink....

.

No it had good legs .you can compare with Begins he had even better legs at the same moment ( and Superman had not just Imax at during that period ) even more .. there were other Imax movies which were released some times after Superman ..and Superman did way more money ( and in fact he has a good place in alltime Imax grosses do some research )

the other points of your post are your opinion :cwink:

[Maze]

Again it's my opinion. I can't believe it. Oh my god, I don't deserve all these great opinions, but thank you all. I just want to thank also my parents, and my wife for always being there for me. I couldn't have won all these opinions without you all....

And you can say what you want but I'll still remember that burton forever washed Adam west from the public's memories of batman... then nolan sort of did the same with burton's batman... Singer? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR.

NOPE.
Let's be clear , i say that because you states your post like they were facts ,and they are not.

[The Kid]

No, not the end ,or a lot of great movie ( like kramer vs Kramer) would be quite boring. and it promise to be interesting imo..

after that to each their own.

Clark vs Dick over Jason for superman rehash 2?


Snore...

Plus it's not even much of a battle. Matt pointed out that Dick has absolutely no say in who becomes the rightful father of Jason, just Lois. And I doubt Dick will enjoy being lied to for so long, if in fact lois was making him believe the boy was his. Oh i just saw this plot last week on all my children!

[Maze]

Again it's my opinion. I can't believe it. Oh my god, I don't deserve all these great opinions, but thank you all. I just want to thank also my parents, and my wife for always being there for me. I couldn't have won all these opinions without you all....

And you can say what you want but I'll still remember that burton forever washed Adam west from the public's memories of batman... then nolan sort of did the same with burton's batman... Singer? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR.

NOPE.

Nope

for a lot of people Singer has updated the Donner era ..
(and some of those same people doesn't even like the Donner movie .. yup )

[Maze]

Clark vs Dick over Jason for superman rehash 2?


Snore...

Plus it's not even much of a battle. Matt pointed out that Dick has absolutely no say in who becomes the rightful father of Jason, just Lois. And I doubt Dick will enjoy being lied to for so long, if in fact lois was making him believe the boy was his. Oh i just saw this plot last week on all my children!
Yes yes yess , you will not like Superman returns 2 : because you have already saw it i knoww ..it suck it's bad ..what a waste of time eh? :woot:

[The Kid]

Nope

for a lot of people Singer has updated the Donner era ..
(and some of those same people doesn't even like the Donner movie .. yup )

People outside the internet know exactly how much of a joke this movie was. Just ask my sister. She shrugged it off as another crappy take on superman and she could care less about the character. Just as a film, it was lame to her.

AND DON'T MESS WITH MY SISTER. She is a genius.

[The Kid]

Yes yes yess , you will not like Superman returns 2 : because you have already saw it i knoww ..it suck it's bad ..what a waste of time eh? :woot:

I'd expect myself not to be a fool and waste money on more from someone who screwed up so badly the first time, yes.

I'll try to illustrate it more clearly.

I guess it's like not wanting to continuing purchasing from a place that makes food you don't like... something like that.

[The Kid]

Let's be clear , i say that because you states your post like they were facts ,and they are not.

WTF? You have to love double standards these days...

[The Incredible Hulk]

No it had good legs .you can compare with Begins he had even better legs at the same moment

NO it didnt. SR took almost twice as long to get to the $200 million mark as Batman Begins did, what are you talking about? :confused:


and Superman had not just Imax at during that period ) even more .. there were other Imax movies which were released some times after Superman ..and Superman did way more money ( and in fact he has a good place in alltime Imax grosses do some research )

From the beginning of September until it popped up in the cheapy theaters, SR was predominatley just in IMAX theaters. Go look it up.
I'm aware there were other IMAX movies playing at the same timem but thats irrelevant to this discussion.


the other points of your post are your opinion :cwink:

thank you captain obvious :dew:

[lazur]

Shocking! Where are these people you speak off because the majority of the fan base spoke up clearly when the movie failed to even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice domestically.

Let alone live up to the hype... People simply didn't like the movie overall, and the boxoffice numbers don't lie...

In today's market, how a movie does at the box office is meaningless in defining how good a movie is to the masses.

And it sounds like you're bashing BB, which was a totally kick ass movie. It should have done a LOT better at the BO, but alas, see my first sentence.

[phil]

No it had good legs .you can compare with Begins he had even better legs at the same moment ( and Superman had not just Imax at during that period ) even more .. there were other Imax movies which were released some times after Superman ..and Superman did way more money ( and in fact he has a good place in alltime Imax grosses do some research )

the other points of your post are your opinion :cwink:
Nope

[JamalYIgle]

lol, c'mon now, the movie was packed with campy homages, the same outline, same Jorel, same stupid real estate story. Stupid one liners copying STM line for line. I could go on and on.

"How many F's in catastrophe?" :whatever:
See, that where you guys have it wrong. Lex luthor's plan isn't about real estate. it's about controlling kryptonian technology. Building new Krypton was going to be his first step.
Lex wanted to build a base from which he would concour the world.

[JamalYIgle]

What's also no place for Superman is dark bland colors on a suit that looks like Brittany Spears would wear and a dark feel like your in the X-Men Univearse. Singer should be ashamed of himself.
careful Phil, you don't want to get banned here as well, do you?

[Maze]

People outside the internet know exactly how much of a joke this movie was. Just ask my sister. She shrugged it off as another crappy take on superman and she could care less about the character. Just as a film, it was lame to her.

AND DON'T MESS WITH MY SISTER. She is a genius.
Lol So you know some people outside the internet who didn't like the movie .;and who happen to be your family ( among other ? :D)

So i know a lot of people too who loved the movie outside the internet fans and non fans (i am one of them ), and some who didn't like it fans and non fans too .. so what? you wan't to compare the number? lol ;)

[Maze]

NO it didnt. SR took almost twice as long to get to the $200 million mark as Batman Begins did, what are you talking about? :confused::
i'm talking about the legs that he had after the hurricane Pirates . the numbers are there..Do some research.. compare ..with Begins. (which had no real competition)

I'm aware there were other IMAX movies playing at the same timem but thats irrelevant to this discussion.

Yes , it does.

Superman eaten them for breakfast. So no , that's another point which prove, that even if the movie didn't live up to the numbers expected ,even if it underperformed ,it did put a lot of people week after week in theater ( and i spare you the fact that the other markets are way more important than ever for this type of movie ..) the Future looks bright for the franchise.

Because ,make no mistake Superman Returns was just the beginning ..
and, Warner bros knows it..they know they have a gold mine there ...if not you would not have a sequel.."right now"... and by Bryan Singer.

ps : Well i have a captain obvious side , it's true , when people seem to go overboard with their opinion , stating them as facts..Not the case?Sorry ,so , more power for you :)

[The Kid]

Lol So you know some people outside the internet who didn't like the movie .;and who happen to be your family ( among other ? :D)

So i know a lot of people too who loved the movie outside the internet fans and non fans (i am one of them ), and some who didn't like it fans and non fans too .. so what? you wan't to compare the number? lol ;)

yes a dog ate another dog. MMMMM SCOOBY SNACK. So i think it's safe to assume my sister, my sister's friends, her boyfriend, her boyfriend's freinds, and whatever other people that saw the movie and don't sit around scrutinizing it online just thought that the movie was LAME LAME LAME. with singer to blame.

[Maze]

yes a dog ate another dog. i think it's safe to assume my sister, my sister's friends, her boyfriend, her boyfriend's freinds, and whatever other people that saw the movie and don't sit around scrutinizing it online just thought that the movie was LAME LAME LAME. with singer to blame.
Lol you don't understand (or you don't wan't to understand ) it's not that i don't believe you (and you can tell what you wan't on the internet ) i'm sure that it's true ..and? i know too a lot of people etc ..and??? LOL

What really count Wes? Your opinion ? i'm not sure anymore ...;)

ps: you can write lame like you were yelling it doesn't change anything .

[The Kid]

Lol you don't understand (or you don't wan't to understand ) it's not that i don't believe you (and you can tell what you wan't on the internet ) i'm sure that it's true ..and? i know too a lot of people etc ..and??? LOL

What really count Wes? Your opinion ? i'm not sure anymore ...;)

ps: you can write lame like you were yelling it doesn't change anything .


I don't care. You can praise this piece of crap all you want to. It's your right and I respect that.

[Maze]

I don't care. You can praise this piece of crap all you want to. It's your right and I respect that.
Et voilaaa .. and you can hate that masterpiece all you wan't to , it's your right and i respect that :)

[superbaby]

See, that where you guys have it wrong. Lex luthor's plan isn't about real estate. it's about controlling kryptonian technology. Building new Krypton was going to be his first step.
Lex wanted to build a base from which he would concour the world.
that's your assumption.
the thing is this movie is so vague. everything you gotta assume right from the beginning to the end. you can't tell exactly what is what.

from a movie point of view, i understand people appreciate this movie. but from a superman movie point of view, it's a disaster. when you look into it, it's empty and meaningless if not full of wrong messages.

"superman returns" the name was so powerful and desireable. but it made zero impact as a matter of fact.

[The Kid]

Et voilaaa .. and you can hate that masterpiece all you wan't to , it's your right and i respect that :)

:cmad: yeah... masterpiece of....

must... resist....

[Maze]

:cmad: yeah... masterpiece of....

must... resist....
Lol ;)

[Hunter Rider]

Poster 1:"I hate SR it raped Superman:cmad:

Poster 2:"I love SR it was the best:yay:

Wesyeed:"*something weird and or funny*"

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1543/wellsky123094351rx0.jpg

[kiuju2k]

Movie was terrible. The theater wouldn't give me my money back. It was a tremendous let down for most but, for me i expected trash I don't know why I acted so surprised when I watched it Then again this is the same guy that destroyed the x-men franchise. I don't know maybe its because he works within budget or something. Just get rid of him already. I seriously would just wait for Raimi to finish S3 and let him do a superman movie. Just no singer. Its hard to believe anyone outside of a non comic reader would actually like this movie.

[The Question]

Well, if they'd gone witha restart, I would have gone with Wizard Magazine's idea for a trilogy .I'm just giving the plots they gave, and adding my own detail. I'm also adding in another movie, making it a fouyr film franchise:


Man of Steel: It's basically Superman's origin story. We start with Clark Kent arriving in Metropolis and getting his job at the Daily Planet. This is followed by several mysterious reports of a flying "Superman" saving lives all over the city. We get a few scenes with Clark talking to his parents, with mention made to how he arrived on Earth. We then see Lex Luthor, billiobare CEO of Lexcorp and genius innventor, taking an interest in these Superman reports. He tries to contact Superman by faking a disaster to draw out his atention. He offers Superman a partnership, saying that they could reshape the world into a finer place. Superman says quite flatly that he is not interested, and it becomes quite evident that their philosophies are very different. As Superman, Clark starts up a rather unique relationship with his partner in the news room, Lois Lane. He comes to he, floating outside of he window at night, and talks to her, using her as his way of getting his voice out to the people (and avoiding any suspicions that may rise if Clark Kent served this role). Lois becomes infatuated with Superman, but their relationship in this is a bit more distant, him serving a sort of gaurdian angel role. Meanwhile, Lex starts setting up several tests for Superman, including faked terrorist atacks and the like, to judge the level of Superman's power. Superman overcomes these obstacles, but ends up bleeding a little bit from one of the encounters. Lex takes the blood sample and has his scientists grow a clone. They succeed, but the creature is imperfect. It is mentally under developed, and lacks any skin pigmentation. Still, Lex orders the creature to kill Superman and take his place. This leads to a massive fight between Superman and his clone, which ultimately results in the clone dying in an atempts to shut down a nuclear metldown, which he and Superman accidentally caused during their fight.

Last Son: Clark begins to try and realy dig into where he came from. He begins looking over his ship, but to no evail. So, as Superman, he taked his ship to Dr. Emil Hammilton, a scientist in Metropolis. Hamilton looks over the vessel, and is soon able to activate it. Clark hears the voice of his father, Kal-El, telling him that the computer program within the ship is modled after his (Jor-El's) consciousness, and is in essence him. Superman begins learning all sorts about Krypton's history and culture from "Jor-El," and begins to reflect on how this effects the humanity that he always felt he had until learning of his heratige. Soon, "Jor-El" begins talking about remaking Earth in Krypton's image. Superman objects to this. Not only would terraforming Earth to be like Krypton's environment and altering the humans genetically to be essentially Kryptonian in nature kill millions, but to reach Krypton's state of near utopian status, which happened after centuries of technological, social, and political developement would require enslaving the human race and forcebly bending them to Kryptonian ways, which would also result in countless deaths. Fearing what "Jor-El" might do, Superman shuts the ship down. However, the ship reactivates itself, and using the technology in Hammilton's lab builds itself a superhuman body. It is revealed that "Jor-El" is in fact The Eradicator, a Kryptonian military defense program. Jor-El coppied a variant of it into his son's ship that was designed to protect Kal-El and preserve Krypton's culture at all costs. Over time, the programing evolved, and is now willing to count mass genocide under "all costs."

Th Eradicator flies to the North Polse, where it begins the terraforming process. Superman follows, and tries to stop the machine. It initially atempts to merely contain Superman, as his programing includes protecting him. However, as Superman proves very dificult to contain, The Eradicator reasons that beating him to within an inch of his life and allowing him to heal while it completes it's work wouldn't be against his programing. Anyway, massive fight insues. It goes up into the upper atmosphere, where Superman defeats The Eradicator by tearing out it's "brain" and throwing it into space. He then flies back to the north pole and ends the terraforming process, which leves a Kryptonian-like structure in it's wake.

Brainiac: A probe in deep space, having taken notice of the actvity on Earth in the previous film, comes to Earth. It locates Milton Fine, a low level telepath/telikinetic and stage preformer, and kills him, taking over his body and altering to better suit it's purposes. It then takes Fine's stage name, Brainiac, as it's own. The probe had been built on the planet Colu, a planet run entire by computers (ala the Borg), to spread the peaceful nature of Colu to other planets. Brainiac goes to Metropolis, wanting to use Lex Luthor's technology, in conjuncture with the Kryptonian technology in the North Pole, to create a means of "pacifying" the human race and then spreading it's influence to the rest of the universe. To help, it creates two superhumans, Metallo and The Parasite, to serve as his workers. It, of course, does not tell them the true nature of It's plan. When Lex becomes aware of what is going on, he contacts Superman, who has already fought Parasite and Metallo twice as they go about stealing technology for Brainiac. Lex and Superman go to the North Pole, where Brainiac is readying to pacify the planet. Lex easily defeats Metallo by shorting out his systems, and Superman finally beats The Parasite, who had constantly been bragging about how superior he was to Superman, by freezing him in the arctic snow. There is then a huge battle between Brainiac and Superman. Superman, however, is unable to defceat Brainiac, only stalemate him, as he soon realizes that the only way to defeat him is to kill him. Lex, however, is fully willing to do this, and shoots Brainiac in the head (it should be noted that Brainiac's powers are completely psychic/energy based, and as such his body isn;t too much more durable than that of a human). Lex then takes Brainiac's body back to Metropolis.

The Elite: Lex, using cell samples from Brainiac's body, creates a team of heroes that he thinks are better suited to save the world than Superman. They are The Elite, lead by street wise British hoodlum Manchester Black. The story follows pretty much follows Action Comics #775, with aspects of Lex Luthor: Man of Steel thrown in to expand the plot. This is very much a Lex Luthor film, and some elements of Lex's backstory, taken from Lex Luthor: The Unofficial Biography, will be mentioned to help flesh out his character. The story ends first with the ending of Action Comincs #775, with Superman defeating The Elite and giving his speech about how extreme methods used to save the world are unnecessairy, and then with the ending of Lex Luthor:Man of Steel, with Lex talking to Superman through his window.

[CConn]

Shocking! Where are these people you speak off because the majority of the fan base spoke up clearly when the movie failed to even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice domestically.

Let alone live up to the hype... People simply didn't like the movie overall, and the boxoffice numbers don't lie...With Titantic, the Star Wars prequels, Independence Day, The Matrix Reloaded all in the Top 30 highest grossing movies ever made list, I'd hardly say box office is a proper indication of how good a movie is. Whether it be Superman Returns or Batman Begins or The Godfather. It may indicate how popular a movie is, but that's about it.

Where you can (at least partially) tell the quality of a movie, is in the majority of reviews and reaction from both professional critics and general movie goers (not to mention the actual fans). As you can see in the links I've provided, SR did well with critics (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/superman_returns/), the general public (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348150/), and fans (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...d.php?t=237842)...here at the Hype, no less.

I will agree, it didn't live up to the hype, but that hardly makes it bad nor highly disliked.

I'm not trying to undermine your (or anyone's) opinion of the film, but it gets a bit annoying when people (like yourself) start manipulating facts to prove their own opinion "correct" or something.

[hippie_hunter]

See, that where you guys have it wrong. Lex luthor's plan isn't about real estate. it's about controlling kryptonian technology. Building new Krypton was going to be his first step.
Lex wanted to build a base from which he would concour the world.

Are you really Jamal Ingle?

[JamalYIgle]

Are you really Jamal Ingle?

actually it's Igle, but yes, I'm Jamal Igle. C.Lee can vouch for me.

[CConn]

See, that where you guys have it wrong. Lex luthor's plan isn't about real estate. it's about controlling kryptonian technology. Building new Krypton was going to be his first step.
Lex wanted to build a base from which he would concour the world.Personally, I also interpreted it to mean he wanted to control the world as well as conquer it (at least, conquer it in the tradition, physical sense).

If New Krypton did what it was supposed to do, North America would be gone. The world economy would be in shambles. Worldwide poverty, food shortages, not to mention political ramifications could reduce powerful nations to third world countries in an instant.

And Lex Luthor would have the most advanced technology on the face of the Earth - capable of giving the world everything it. The world would, simply put, be at his mercy. He would have conquered the world without lifting a finger.

Which is actually all quite in line with the modern comics' Luthor's characterization.

[hippie_hunter]

actually it's Igle, but yes, I'm Jamal Igle. C.Lee can vouch for me.

Holy s**t :wow:

[Lead Cenobite]

Well if that's what he does he has to cut back on that because he has a child to look after now. And I'm sure he just can't take off in the middle of a T-Ball game to save people.
Hopefully in the sequel the custody battle won't be too hard on the kid. And also I hope they let down the guy who thinks the kid is really his easy.

They just move on from Jason for now. Just because he was introduced in Superman Returns doesn't mean he has to be used in every single sequel afterwards. I'm not suggesting they pretend Superman Returns didn't happen either.

Jason can still exist, but remain in the background. Even the ending of Superman Returns suggests that might be the case. Remember the speech Superman gave to the sleeping Jason? It was the same speech Jor-El gave to Kal-El. And who played the role of father to Kal-El? Not Jor-El, but his human father Jonathan Kent.

Richard could be the new Jonathan Kent, while Superman only plays the Jor-El role when Jason is a teenager and has discovered his powers. Up until then, Jason's early life needs no exposure. The next few Superman sequels can take during this time period, where Jason grows up off-screen.

This doesn't make Superman a dead beat dad either. He didn't know about Lois's pregnancy, and he didn't raise Jason. It would be more un-Superman for him to kick Richard to the curb and claim Jason as his son.

What about Lois? The way I see it, Lois and Superman's relationship has had plenty of exposure in the comics, movies, and L&C. She has a new man now, and Superman Returns seemed to be the final goodbye between Lois and Superman as far as a relationship is concerned.

Maybe a new love interest would be refreshing. Many have suggested Lana, and I'd have to agree. Ok, so she's not so popular on Smallville these days, but that's not the real Lana. The real one is likeable, and we've only seen the real one for a few seconds in Superman: The Movie and then she was the love interest of Superman III that went nowhere because it was ignored in Superman IV.

All problems solved.

[Mentok]

Singer: X-Men, X-2: X-Men United, Superman Returns, Usual Suspects, Apt Pupil

McG: Charlies Angels, Charlies Angels: Full Throtle, music videos

Singer: brought a faithful interpretation of Donner's Superman

McG: was going to direct a Superman movie that had a suit in a can, a Kryptonian Lex Luthor who was a CIA agent, a prophecy of Superman going back to Krypton and saving it, Krypton not even exploding, and other lame ass ideas.

Singer: nobody's puppet

McG: Jon Peters' puppet

Singer: was able to restart the Superman project right from scratch and manage to get it out within 2 years

McG: took the reigns from Ratner and still managed to keep it in development hell

Yeah, Singer is just as bad if not worse than McG :whatever:

Thank you :up:

[superbaby]

They just move on from Jason for now. Just because he was introduced in Superman Returns doesn't mean he has to be used in every single sequel afterwards. I'm not suggesting they pretend Superman Returns didn't happen either.

Jason can still exist, but remain in the background. Even the ending of Superman Returns suggests that might be the case. Remember the speech Superman gave to the sleeping Jason? It was the same speech Jor-El gave to Kal-El. And who played the role of father to Kal-El? Not Jor-El, but his human father Jonathan Kent.

Richard could be the new Jonathan Kent, while Superman only plays the Jor-El role when Jason is a teenager and has discovered his powers. Up until then, Jason's early life needs no exposure. The next few Superman sequels can take during this time period, where Jason grows up off-screen.

This doesn't make Superman a dead beat dad either. He didn't know about Lois's pregnancy, and he didn't raise Jason. It would be more un-Superman for him to kick Richard to the curb and claim Jason as his son.

What about Lois? The way I see it, Lois and Superman's relationship has had plenty of exposure in the comics, movies, and L&C. She has a new man now, and Superman Returns seemed to be the final goodbye between Lois and Superman as far as a relationship is concerned.

Maybe a new love interest would be refreshing. Many have suggested Lana, and I'd have to agree. Ok, so she's not so popular on Smallville these days, but that's not the real Lana. The real one is likeable, and we've only seen the real one for a few seconds in Superman: The Movie and then she was the love interest of Superman III that went nowhere because it was ignored in Superman IV.

All problems solved.
then, what was the point of introducing jason at the first place? just to show that superman is a dick like us who can have unprotected sex?

by the way, your ideas seems like all go against SR, putting aside all the storylines singer created in his so called epic.

[Maze]

then, what was the point of introducing jason at the first place? just to show that superman is a dick like us who can have unprotected sex?
Who said that he had unprotected sex?

You know you can take a contraceptive and ,sometimes ,still have children....

[MFM]

Cuz we all know when you think SUPERMAN, you think HOMEWRECKER. :woot:
When I think of SUPERMAN, I also think PEEPING-TOM! :wow:

Thank You Teh Bryan Singer!!!111

[Lead Cenobite]

then, what was the point of introducing jason at the first place? just to show that superman is a dick like us who can have unprotected sex?

by the way, your ideas seems like all go against SR, putting aside all the storylines singer created in his so called epic.

The Jason storyline would pick up later on in the series.

You have to admit, it's better than making a sequel to Superman Returns and pretending parts of it didn't happen.

[The Kid]

No just forget it ever happened. The whooooole thing. CUT THE DONNER UMBILICAL CORD.

WTF PEOPLE? Let's try to save superman. Damn. The donner movies ended a milion years ago. LET'S MOVE ON.

GOD.

And :( .. sorry for all those looking forward to Superman and Son adventures. Go to hell.

[Maze]

No just forget it ever happened.

WTF PEOPLE? Let's try to save superman. Damn. The donner movies ended a milion years ago. LET'S MOVE ON.

GOD.
But The Donner movies ended twenty years ago , indeed ? :huh: :cwink:

hello Wes :)

[WhatsHisFace]

A lot of you people are idiots.

[The Kid]

Seriously, why are we doing a Dean Cain storyline?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1HUV_aT-gdM

[Maze]

Seriously, why are we doing a Dean Cain storyline?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1HUV_aT-gdM
So you mean that Sr is a Comics storyline :huh: ( i don't see the ressemblance but ok) yup , the "game" before he married her was let's flirt on and off..so really i don't see what you are talking about..

[JamalYIgle]

So you mean that Sr is a Comics storyline :huh: ( i don't see the ressemblance but ok) yup , now that he his married, Lois count a lot more :) And anways before that the "game" was i can't get Lois..so really i don't see what you are talking about..
Neither do I.. the idea of Superman having children has been done in the comics before, since the 50's actually. Now they've introduced a Kryptonian child into the Superman comics again.

[JamalYIgle]

No just forget it ever happened. The whooooole thing. CUT THE DONNER UMBILICAL CORD.

WTF PEOPLE? Let's try to save superman. Damn. The donner movies ended a milion years ago. LET'S MOVE ON.

GOD.

And :( .. sorry for all those looking forward to Superman and Son adventures. Go to hell.
You do realize that Richard Donner is co writing Action Comics now, right and that every thing that Donner has done with Superman influenced the comics since the 80's.

[Maze]

You do realize that Richard Donner is co writing Action Comics now, right and that every thing that Donner has done with Superman influenced the comics since the 80's.
Yup.

Byrne was influenced a lot by Donner among other ( even if he did get rid of the bumbling Clark for example ..one of his bad idea imo )

[The Kid]

You do realize that Richard Donner is co writing Action Comics now, right and that every thing that Donner has done with Superman influenced the comics since the 80's.

What I realize is you always act like donner's the only reason superman even exists. And I thought you worked for DC... :cmad:

I'm not even going to fall in the trap of talking about what influences the comics from the movies. They were made a million years ago. the modern version of superman is almost completely different than the reeve/donner version and you know this, Donner knows this, and the only person who doesn't is Singer because he wanted so badly to redo Donner's old OUTDATED superman again oh and sprinkled with a few referrences to some ancient superman comics..

[The Kid]

Neither do I.. the idea of Superman having children has been done in the comics before, since the 50's actually. Now they've introduced a Kryptonian child into the Superman comics again.

And he's slapped a Jap too. let's do that story as well.

Damnit, freakin dc artists on the boards...

Sazafrazzin Frizaa$#$#^%*^%^(@!$@#

[hippie_hunter]

What I realize is you always act like donner's the only reason superman even exists. And I thought you worked for DC... :cmad:

I'm not even going to fall in the trap of talking about what influences the comics from the movies. They were made a million years ago. the modern version of superman is almost completely different than the reeve/donner version and you know this, Donner knows this, and the only person who doesn't is Singer because he wanted so badly to redo Donner's old OUTDATED superman again oh and sprinkled with a few referrences to some ancient superman comics..

He's not saying that Donner is the only reason why Superman continues to exist. He's saying that Donner's vision has highly influenced Superman's modern incarnation. Which it has indeed.

[Lead Cenobite]

No just forget it ever happened. The whooooole thing. CUT THE DONNER UMBILICAL CORD.

WTF PEOPLE? Let's try to save superman. Damn. The donner movies ended a milion years ago. LET'S MOVE ON.

GOD.

And :( .. sorry for all those looking forward to Superman and Son adventures. Go to hell.

You know, I don't care about your opinion, you're a jerk anyway. :woot:

WB doesn't care either. You may want to cut the Donner umbilical cord, but they aren't about to. We're getting a sequel to SR whether you like it or not.

[The Kid]

You know, I don't care about your opinion, you're a jerk anyway. :woot:

WB don't give a crap what you think either, you may want to cut the Donner umbilical cord, but they aren't about to. We're getting a sequel to SR whether you like it or not.

I want superman treated well and I'm a jerk for it?

Well ****. Thanks for the compliment you ****ing ****.

Enjoy your Superboy movie then. If kids in capes is your thing, then ok.

[Maze]

he wanted so badly to redo Donner's old OUTDATED superman again oh and sprinkled with a few referrences to some ancient superman comics..
And to the George Reeve serie , Alex Ross , and the Max Fleischer animated show too :yay:

[Lead Cenobite]

Who's the one that said "go to hell?". Hmm?

Like you can be taken seriously otherwise, you seem to be totally obsessed with the fact that Superman has a kid. Even took time out to make an avatar out of it. Congrats on not having a life.

[Maze]

I want superman treated well and I'm a jerk for it?

Well ****. Thanks for the compliment you ass.

Enjoy your Superboy movie then. Like I care.
You don't care that's for sure , but you are often here ( not that you annoy me , you can be quite funny) and you need to calm down a little..:cwink:

[The Kid]

He's not saying that Donner is the only reason why Superman continues to exist. He's saying that Donner's vision has highly influenced Superman's modern incarnation. Which it has indeed.

I know he likes to say that again and again and again and again but don't get carried away in thinking donner's influence was THAT great. I really can't think of much besides the crystal fortress that is so donnerish in the comic.

[The Kid]

Who's the one that said "go to hell?". Hmm?

Like you can be taken seriously otherwise, you seem to be totally obsessed with the fact that Superman has a kid. Even took time out to make an avatar out of it. Congrats on not having a life.

You don't know how to read.

[Maze]

Wes,

Sincerly i know what it's like when really you don't like something..but imagine : it's the contrary , you did enjoy Sr and people come here and insult you and say that you like garbage or things along those lines..ok it's acceptable ( for some people ) once , two times , people get upset sometimes ,ok, but often like that it become rather tedious understand it.

I respect that you didn't like Sr ( and , again ,it must suck for you) but please calm down :)

[The Kid]

We sincerly i know what it's like when really you don't like something..but imagine : it's the contrary , you did enjoy Sr and people come here and insult you and say that you like garbage or things along those lines..ok it's acceptable ( for some people ) once , two times , people get upset sometimes ,ok, but often like that it become rather tedious understand it.

I respect that you didn't like Sr ( and , again ,it must suck for you) but please calm down :)

Nope. I'll say what I want, how I want. It's my right as long as I don't go too far out of bounds, no matter what anyone else thinks.

And I'm not having mercy on singer or his fans. I know precisely how ruthless and arrogant his fans are, especially before the movie came out. So when they cry about criticism of their superboy movie, I don't bat an eyelash.

But beyond that is how crappy the movie was itself. And No, a few minutes of nice cgi didn't win me over.

[Hunter Rider]

Wesyeed im puzzled,all the time you've been the kid fan were you just trying to annoy ppl ?:huh:

Anyway i actually see some of your points,the idea of the kid being the focal point in a sequel is disappointing as is the talk of Zod.
I wouldn't mind them exploring someone like Eradicator coming to kill the kid as it puts some interesting scrutiny on Superman but i really hope he and the Clark/Lois friendship are the centre this time

[Showtime]

Well the sequel is going to happen, with Singer, with Routh, and with the kid. There is nothing anybody can do about it. Personally I am looking forward to it.

[Hunter Rider]

Well the sequel is going to happen, with Singer, with Routh, and with the kid. There is nothing anybody can do about it. Personally I am looking forward to it.

Jesus i was just thinking about you:wow:.......... in a completely heterosexual and manly way of course:woot:

[Showtime]

I caught your thought waves and blushed, a very manly blush.

[Maze]

Nope. I'll say what I want, how I want. It's my right as long as I don't go too far out of bounds, no matter what anyone else thinks.

And I'm not having mercy on singer or his fans. I know precisely how ruthless and arrogant his fans are, especially before the movie came out. So when they cry about criticism of their superboy movie, I don't bat an eyelash.

But beyond that is how crappy the movie was itself. And No, a few minutes of nice cgi didn't win me over.
have it your way then ..but reread yourself then , be honest with yourself,you did go too far and not just one time..

as for the movie :Criticism is good..this isn't criticism..it's bashing ..

ps: funny reading those forums i see hostility and arrogance often from people that didn't like this movie ..but hey that's what I saw.

[Hunter Rider]

I caught your thought waves and blushed, a very manly blush.

It's good to know that we have that butch masculine cyberlectual connection:woot:

[Showtime]

I want superman treated well and I'm a jerk for it?

Well ****. Thanks for the compliment you ****ing ****.

Enjoy your Superboy movie then. If kids in capes is your thing, then ok.

Man Weyseed, I respect what you're saying...usually...but it is what it is. You can want a new Superman and different take, nothing is wrong with that at all, but what's with the namecalling?

[Showtime]

You know, I don't care about your opinion, you're a jerk anyway. :woot:

WB doesn't care either. You may want to cut the Donner umbilical cord, but they aren't about to. We're getting a sequel to SR whether you like it or not.

I know the namecalling and smiley face trick. It doesn't work. :whatever:

[The Kid]

Wesyeed im puzzled,all the time you've been the kid fan were you just trying to annoy ppl ?:huh:

No, like I said months ago to showtime, I like to experiment with different points of view. But yes, I do think the kid must die or something. I always thought that... I thought it was obvious... ;) Someone told me years ago that sometimes people show they love something by hating... like how in school girls sometimes act like they hate a boy they like. This time i decided I'd reverse that idea.


Anyway i actually see some of your points,the idea of the kid being the focal point in a sequel is disappointing as is the talk of Zod.
I wouldn't mind them exploring someone like Eradicator coming to kill the kid as it puts some interesting scrutiny on Superman but i really hope he and the Clark/Lois friendship are the centre this time

We'll see, won't we. I don't really think it's salvagable though from this point in continuity. Some do... and I guess I can sort of see how if maybe it were all a dream and superman wakes up, that might work. Movie goers would either feel betrayed or pleased by the decision.

[Showtime]

The kid will not be killed off in my opinion, but will be depowered. I actually think the Kryptonite gave him the power, almost like a bizzaro Superman type thing.

[Hunter Rider]

No, like I said months ago to showtime, I like to experiment with different points of view. But yes, I do think the kid must die or something. I always thought that... I thought it was obvious... ;) Someone told me years ago that sometimes people show they love something by hating... like how in school girls sometimes act like they hate a boy they like. This time i decided I'd reverse that idea.
Ah i see,at first i figured you were taking the piss out the very vocal kid haters and then i figured maybe you thought he was the best thing in a bad movie but now i see the reverse postcology:woot:


We'll see, won't we. I don't really think it's salvagable though from this point in continuity. Some do... and I guess I can sort of see how if maybe it were all a dream and superman wakes up, that might work. Movie goers would either feel betrayed or pleased by the decision.

I doubt a dream would be a feasible option,maybe have him go to boarding school ? i dunno but i figure as long as he does no more super feats and never flies with his dad it can be worked around

[hippie_hunter]

I want superman treated well and I'm a jerk for it?

Well ****. Thanks for the compliment you ****ing ****.

Enjoy your Superboy movie then. If kids in capes is your thing, then ok.

You act like your opinion is the right one and the one of the majority when your opinion is only an opinion (there is no right one) and is not of the majority.

And nothing indicates so far that Jason is going to have a cape or become a sidekick. I highly doubt that Singer will go down such a campy route.

[The Kid]

Interesting... so I ask... Are you afraid of it? Do you fear a superboy? Or a....














batboy?
http://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/216_4_154.jpg

I think fans need to confront that reality and make a decision on whether Superboy is what they want to see.

[Showtime]

You want to place a bet on this Weyseed, about a "Superboy". I haven't lost yet in regards to Returns, so lay it down.

[The Kid]

You want to place a bet on this Wesyeed, about a "Superboy". I haven't lost yet in regards to Returns, so lay it down.

Well I don't know... what are we betting? I don't have that many comics and they're not worth much anyway.

I'd bet on being mod for a day. :woot:

[Showtime]

Well I don't know... what are we betting? I don't have that many comics and they're not worth much anyway.

I'd bet on being mod for a day. :woot:

We can come up with something, Mod for a day?

[The Kid]

Yessss...

I like this. If for some crazy balls reason Jason flies, and fights, and wears the tights... I should become a mod for an entire day. If not then, whatever... showtime is mod.

And heh, Superman returns

http://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/116_4_218.jpg

[superbaby]

The Jason storyline would pick up later on in the series.

You have to admit, it's better than making a sequel to Superman Returns and pretending parts of it didn't happen.
why not?
i think it's great to ignore the awful storyline introduced in SR.

it isn't the problem of donner's influence. it's singer's mindless and stupid ideas. and he totally missed the donner's superman spirit.

a superman returns after missing for a few years. almost anybody who knows superman can come up with an idea better than a hit and run old boyfriend returns storyline.

[Mentok]

this is the lamest excuse i'd ever heard & you are buying it. c'mon. get a brain. transitional *****. STM was almost 30 years ago. everybody are ready to move on and celebrate a new superman movie. however this visionless singer gave us a poorly copy version of STM.

WAKE UP WB!!! singer is as awful as Mcg if not worse than him!

Oh, really?

Then why the **** is Brandon Routh (someone who actually knows SOMETHING about the film) confirming what Brian had been saying all along?



3) He says that Singer will make the 2009 film into HIS own and not be another Donner film.

So, its not a case of me 'Buying a lame excuse, hook line and sinker', rather its you being too foolish to actually look at the facts.

Good job of looking like another typical "OMG! THATS NOT SUPERMAN... SINGER HAS FAILED!" Blind Fanboy.

[The Kid]

You sound like a smallville fan. :dew:

[dark_b]

maybe jason will have hes own tv show. called metropolis. and it will be about him growing up.:cwink: :wow:

[Mentok]

You sound like a smallville fan. :dew:

*Burns with rage*


Funny thing... I actually managed to sit through a full episode of THE TOM WELLING VARIETY HOUR last night without throwing up in my lap :O

Probably because it had the awesome FoS in it most of the time :up:

[The Kid]

ok http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2627/11497215861000zd.gif

[JayKay]

Why should they forget about SR if they want to make a good Superman movie? They should try to emulate it if you ask me.

[The Question]

Well, if they'd gone witha restart, I would have gone with Wizard Magazine's idea for a trilogy .I'm just giving the plots they gave, and adding my own detail. I'm also adding in another movie, making it a fouyr film franchise:


Man of Steel: It's basically Superman's origin story. We start with Clark Kent arriving in Metropolis and getting his job at the Daily Planet. This is followed by several mysterious reports of a flying "Superman" saving lives all over the city. We get a few scenes with Clark talking to his parents, with mention made to how he arrived on Earth. We then see Lex Luthor, billiobare CEO of Lexcorp and genius innventor, taking an interest in these Superman reports. He tries to contact Superman by faking a disaster to draw out his atention. He offers Superman a partnership, saying that they could reshape the world into a finer place. Superman says quite flatly that he is not interested, and it becomes quite evident that their philosophies are very different. As Superman, Clark starts up a rather unique relationship with his partner in the news room, Lois Lane. He comes to he, floating outside of he window at night, and talks to her, using her as his way of getting his voice out to the people (and avoiding any suspicions that may rise if Clark Kent served this role). Lois becomes infatuated with Superman, but their relationship in this is a bit more distant, him serving a sort of gaurdian angel role. Meanwhile, Lex starts setting up several tests for Superman, including faked terrorist atacks and the like, to judge the level of Superman's power. Superman overcomes these obstacles, but ends up bleeding a little bit from one of the encounters. Lex takes the blood sample and has his scientists grow a clone. They succeed, but the creature is imperfect. It is mentally under developed, and lacks any skin pigmentation. Still, Lex orders the creature to kill Superman and take his place. This leads to a massive fight between Superman and his clone, which ultimately results in the clone dying in an atempts to shut down a nuclear metldown, which he and Superman accidentally caused during their fight.

Last Son: Clark begins to try and realy dig into where he came from. He begins looking over his ship, but to no evail. So, as Superman, he taked his ship to Dr. Emil Hammilton, a scientist in Metropolis. Hamilton looks over the vessel, and is soon able to activate it. Clark hears the voice of his father, Kal-El, telling him that the computer program within the ship is modled after his (Jor-El's) consciousness, and is in essence him. Superman begins learning all sorts about Krypton's history and culture from "Jor-El," and begins to reflect on how this effects the humanity that he always felt he had until learning of his heratige. Soon, "Jor-El" begins talking about remaking Earth in Krypton's image. Superman objects to this. Not only would terraforming Earth to be like Krypton's environment and altering the humans genetically to be essentially Kryptonian in nature kill millions, but to reach Krypton's state of near utopian status, which happened after centuries of technological, social, and political developement would require enslaving the human race and forcebly bending them to Kryptonian ways, which would also result in countless deaths. Fearing what "Jor-El" might do, Superman shuts the ship down. However, the ship reactivates itself, and using the technology in Hammilton's lab builds itself a superhuman body. It is revealed that "Jor-El" is in fact The Eradicator, a Kryptonian military defense program. Jor-El coppied a variant of it into his son's ship that was designed to protect Kal-El and preserve Krypton's culture at all costs. Over time, the programing evolved, and is now willing to count mass genocide under "all costs."

Th Eradicator flies to the North Polse, where it begins the terraforming process. Superman follows, and tries to stop the machine. It initially atempts to merely contain Superman, as his programing includes protecting him. However, as Superman proves very dificult to contain, The Eradicator reasons that beating him to within an inch of his life and allowing him to heal while it completes it's work wouldn't be against his programing. Anyway, massive fight insues. It goes up into the upper atmosphere, where Superman defeats The Eradicator by tearing out it's "brain" and throwing it into space. He then flies back to the north pole and ends the terraforming process, which leves a Kryptonian-like structure in it's wake.

Brainiac: A probe in deep space, having taken notice of the actvity on Earth in the previous film, comes to Earth. It locates Milton Fine, a low level telepath/telikinetic and stage preformer, and kills him, taking over his body and altering to better suit it's purposes. It then takes Fine's stage name, Brainiac, as it's own. The probe had been built on the planet Colu, a planet run entire by computers (ala the Borg), to spread the peaceful nature of Colu to other planets. Brainiac goes to Metropolis, wanting to use Lex Luthor's technology, in conjuncture with the Kryptonian technology in the North Pole, to create a means of "pacifying" the human race and then spreading it's influence to the rest of the universe. To help, it creates two superhumans, Metallo and The Parasite, to serve as his workers. It, of course, does not tell them the true nature of It's plan. When Lex becomes aware of what is going on, he contacts Superman, who has already fought Parasite and Metallo twice as they go about stealing technology for Brainiac. Lex and Superman go to the North Pole, where Brainiac is readying to pacify the planet. Lex easily defeats Metallo by shorting out his systems, and Superman finally beats The Parasite, who had constantly been bragging about how superior he was to Superman, by freezing him in the arctic snow. There is then a huge battle between Brainiac and Superman. Superman, however, is unable to defceat Brainiac, only stalemate him, as he soon realizes that the only way to defeat him is to kill him. Lex, however, is fully willing to do this, and shoots Brainiac in the head (it should be noted that Brainiac's powers are completely psychic/energy based, and as such his body isn;t too much more durable than that of a human). Lex then takes Brainiac's body back to Metropolis.

The Elite: Lex, using cell samples from Brainiac's body, creates a team of heroes that he thinks are better suited to save the world than Superman. They are The Elite, lead by street wise British hoodlum Manchester Black. The story follows pretty much follows Action Comics #775, with aspects of Lex Luthor: Man of Steel thrown in to expand the plot. This is very much a Lex Luthor film, and some elements of Lex's backstory, taken from Lex Luthor: The Unofficial Biography, will be mentioned to help flesh out his character. The story ends first with the ending of Action Comincs #775, with Superman defeating The Elite and giving his speech about how extreme methods used to save the world are unnecessairy, and then with the ending of Lex Luthor:Man of Steel, with Lex talking to Superman through his window.

I guess no one liked my idea for a film series. :csad:

[superbaby]

Oh, really?

Then why the **** is Brandon Routh (someone who actually knows SOMETHING about the film) confirming what Brian had been saying all along?



3) He says that Singer will make the 2009 film into HIS own and not be another Donner film.

So, its not a case of me 'Buying a lame excuse, hook line and sinker', rather its you being too foolish to actually look at the facts.

Good job of looking like another typical "OMG! THATS NOT SUPERMAN... SINGER HAS FAILED!" Blind Fanboy.

my point is why the hell do we need a transitional movie of a 30 years old movi? why didn't he make it his own first??? the reason is very simple. singer has ZERO idea to make the film. that's why he copied scene by scene, dialogue by dialogue from donner's and added his limited imagination on the sequel of the movie.

btw, what do you get from SR? what exactly singer wanna tell in SR that you understand???

[JamalYIgle]

my point is why the hell do we need a transitional movie of a 30 years old movi? A 30 year old movie that's been in constant TV and Video rotation for the oast 30 years, that's influenced almost every other comic movie adaptaion as well as how Superman has been veiwed since it came out. When the movie is still considered one of the top 100 movies of all time, you don't ignore it.

[superbaby]

A 30 year old movie that's been in constant TV and Video rotation for the oast 30 years, that's influenced almost every other comic movie adaptaion as well as how Superman has been veiwed since it came out. When the movie is still considered one of the top 100 movies of all time, you don't ignore it.
don't ignore =/= copy directly.

anyway, as i've said, it isn't the problem of donner's influence. it's singer's mindless and stupid ideas. and he totally missed the donner's superman spirit.

[JamalYIgle]

don't ignore =/= copy directly.

anyway, as i've said, it isn't the problem of donner's influence. it's singer's mindless and stupid ideas. and he totally missed the donner's superman spirit.
I Disagree and so apparently did Richard Donner since he gave Singer his blessing.

[Showtime]

....so did WB as they greenlit Singer's story, the script, and the cut of the movie...

I dont think he missed the spirit of Superman, Donner's or otherwise.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/IronGiant29/sunsetsuperman1.jpg?t=1164082605

[SentinelMind]

An arrogant, morose Superman who mopes around ...not because of the thousands of people who died in his absence....or that the world doesn't want his help anymore........but because his girlfriend who he abandoned for 5 years without warning is going out with someone else. What to do? Reveal the truth....nah!!!....just spy on Lois and mock her "you shouldn't smoke"..."the recorder is in your back pocket"...."he can't let you fly like this". Yeah, that's the spirit of Superman. :up:

[Kabuki_Jo]

See, that where you guys have it wrong. Lex luthor's plan isn't about real estate. it's about controlling kryptonian technology. Building new Krypton was going to be his first step.
Lex wanted to build a base from which he would concour the world.

It was not a real estate plan?
So, why did Lex say he'd sell ppl land on New Kripton?
by the way, with all the banks underwater cause of the creation of NK, how would Lex's customers pay for some radioactive NK land?
with seashells?

[Kabuki_Jo]

An arrogant, morose Superman who mopes around ...not because of the thousands of people who died in his absence....or that the world doesn't want his help anymore........but because his girlfriend who he abandoned for 5 years without warning is going out with someone else. What to do? Reveal the truth....nah!!!....just spy on Lois and mock her "you shouldn't smoke"..."the recorder is in your back pocket"...."he can't let you fly like this". Yeah, that's the spirit of Superman. :up:

Agreed.

[JamalYIgle]

It was not a real estate plan?
So, why did Lex say he'd sell ppl land on New Kripton?
by the way, with all the banks underwater cause of the creation of NK, how would Lex's customers pay for some radioactive NK land?
with seashells?
Do you know the story of Prometheus, of course you don't. Prometheous was a god who stole the power of fire from the other gods and gave it to man, in other words he gave us technology.
Imagine, Vehicles, weapons enitre continents all grown. I will have advanced alien techology, thousands of years ahead of anything they could throw at me. BRING IT ON!

[superbaby]

An arrogant, morose Superman who mopes around ...not because of the thousands of people who died in his absence....or that the world doesn't want his help anymore........but because his girlfriend who he abandoned for 5 years without warning is going out with someone else. What to do? Reveal the truth....nah!!!....just spy on Lois and mock her "you shouldn't smoke"..."the recorder is in your back pocket"...."he can't let you fly like this". Yeah, that's the spirit of Superman. :up:

lol. exactly. :up:

may i ask further, what is the theme of the movie? what is the point singer wanna bring across?

where is the truth, justice & hope?

i see the movie offer nothing. no lessons learned. no points wanna make. all the characters stay stagnant & have no progress from the begining to the end. it's pretending to be something but is nothing.

if there was one thing, it would be 'the son becomes the father, the father the son.' ???

[JamalYIgle]

lol. exactly. :up:

may i ask further, what is the theme of the movie? what is the point singer wanna bring across?

where is the truth, justice & hope?

i see the movie offer nothing. no lessons learned. no points wanna make. all the characters stay stagnant & have no progress from the begining to the end. it's pretending to be something but is nothing.

if there was one thing, it would be 'the son becomes the father, the father the son.' ???
The lesson was life goes on, things change and you have to make the best of what you have. he went back to krypton to find a connection to his people, and discovered he had one right here on earth.

[Kabuki_Jo]

Do you know the story of Prometheus, of course you don't. Prometheous was a god who stole the power of fire from the other gods and gave it to man, in other words he gave us technology.
Imagine, Vehicles, weapons enitre continents all grown. I will have advanced alien techology, thousands of years ahead of anything they could throw at me. BRING IT ON!

LOL!:D

[The Kid]

The lesson was life goes on, things change and you have to make the best of what you have. he went back to krypton to find a connection to his people, and discovered he had one right here on earth.

I wonder what you thought of the novel, Jamal.

[JamalYIgle]

I wonder what you thought of the novel, Jamal.
Didn't read it,mostly because i kew it wasn't from the shooting script and Marv was allowed to take certain liberties.

[The Kid]

Didn't read it,mostly because i kew it wasn't from the shooting script and Marv was allowed to take certain liberties.

And it's probably better than returns because of it. I didn't read it either though.

So what was it you guys were saying about the message in returns? Dogs are delicious?

[JamalYIgle]

And it's probably better than returns because of it. I didn't read it either though.

So what was it you guys were saying about the message in returns? Dogs are delicious?
So if you didn't read it you shouldn't complain about it.

[superbaby]

The lesson was life goes on, things change and you have to make the best of what you have. he went back to krypton to find a connection to his people, and discovered he had one right here on earth.
wonderful. just perfect for the teenage soap opera tv series like Smallville & One Tree Hill.

[JamalYIgle]

wonderful. just perfect for the teenage soap opera tv series like Smallville & One Tree Hill.
You cannot have a dramatic story without emotional conflict, and Superman Returns is a dramatic story.

[superbaby]

You cannot have a dramatic story without emotional conflict, and Superman Returns is a dramatic story.
i'm totally fine with a dramatic story and the donner's references.
i just can't stand all the senseless and awful ideas brought by singer.

pls, why you guys can't see it. he only has twisted and visionlesss ideas for superman. i just hope that someone else would incharge for the script.

[Maze]

i'm totally fine with a dramatic story and the donner's references.
i just can't stand all the senseless and awful ideas brought by singer.

pls, why you guys can't see it. he only has twisted and visionlesss ideas for superman. i just hope that someone else would incharge for the script.
Well i can tell you the exact same thing : why can't you see it's a well crafted story?

You see where i'm going? Just give up ..not only this "argument" is going nowhere , but realize that maybe , just maybe that is not just a story for "you".

[Kabuki_Jo]

As you're telling Superbaby to give up his vendetta against Superman Returns, shouldn't you give up your constant attempts to get everyone to believe that SR is a great movie, when in their minds it's not, Maze?

[Mentok]

my point is why the hell do we need a transitional movie of a 30 years old movi? why didn't he make it his own first??? the reason is very simple. singer has ZERO idea to make the film. that's why he copied scene by scene, dialogue by dialogue from donner's and added his limited imagination on the sequel of the movie.

btw, what do you get from SR? what exactly singer wanna tell in SR that you understand???

No, you really should go back and read your post. Your point was that I had bought an excuse for the film being the way it was.

The mistake you made was assuming the film needs an excuse.

:down

Too bad you cant accept the fact Singer wanted an end to the Donnner Universe (Something Donner himself agreed on) and a start to HIS Superman Universe.

[Mentok]

pls, why you guys can't see it. he only has twisted and visionlesss ideas for superman. i just hope that someone else would incharge for the script.

Pitty you are yet to see what his vision for superman actually is :rolleyes:

[Maze]

As you're telling Superbaby to give up his vendetta against Superman Returns, shouldn't you give up your constant attempts to get everyone to believe that SR is a great movie, when in their minds it's not, Maze?
When? give me a link.

I'm waiting .

But ,i have a feeling you didn't get my message to superbaby.

It suck for you , it suck .Period.Personnaly i love it.

[JamalYIgle]

i'm totally fine with a dramatic story and the donner's references.
i just can't stand all the senseless and awful ideas brought by singer.

pls, why you guys can't see it. he only has twisted and visionlesss ideas for superman. i just hope that someone else would incharge for the script.
Perhaps because I don't see it that way. I think it's because his vision of Superman lines up with mine , and I've been a Superman fan for 29 years.

[GreenKToo]

I think we all need to move on from S.R. and concentrate on the sequel.Singer is gonna direct it,and nothings gonna change that.Personally I wouldnt have minded a new director,but its not gonna happen.So why dont we wait and see who the villian is, and what the story line is,before crying havoc...

[superbaby]

I think we all need to move on from S.R. and concentrate on the sequel.Singer is gonna direct it,and nothings gonna change that.Personally I wouldnt have minded a new director,but its not gonna happen.So why dont we wait and see who the villian is, and what the story line is,before crying havoc...
ya. thats' the only way.
just pretending i'd never watched SR. SR had never been made. and I still could hope and believe in Singer.

[superbaby]

I think we all need to move on from S.R. and concentrate on the sequel.Singer is gonna direct it,and nothings gonna change that.Personally I wouldnt have minded a new director,but its not gonna happen.So why dont we wait and see who the villian is, and what the story line is,before crying havoc...
i'm afraid that they are not interested to make a 'traditional' superman movie.

[mego joe]

i'm afraid that they are not interested to make a 'traditional' superman movie.

And there in lies the problem.... I don't think Singer believes in the traditional nice guy.

[JayKay]

And there in lies the problem.... I don't think Singer believes in the traditional nice guy.He did a perfectly good job portraying one in SR. I mean, this guy was so completely selfless! He sacrificed his life to save Metropolis. He is willing to let his son not know he is his father to maintain his happyness. He is happy to see Lois with Richard once he sees how much they love each other.

Superman was a pretty nice guy in SR.

[mego joe]

He did a perfectly good job portraying one in SR. I mean, this guy was so completely selfless! He sacrificed his life to save Metropolis. He is willing to let his son not know he is his father to maintain his happyness. He is happy to see Lois with Richard once he sees how much they love each other.

Superman was a pretty nice guy in SR.

Not much sense in responding to a banned user, but I can't resist.

Superman not a nice guy in SR b/c

...got LOis pregnant and left town w/o telling her.

of, if you lke

...was involved in a sexual relationship w/ Lois and left town w/o telling her. "I know that's how women like to be treated."

Brought child into the world who will now have serious issues and probably therapy b/c Superman was 'a nice guy.'

Facilitated Luthor's release from prison b/c SUperman's a 'nice guy.'

[JamalYIgle]

Not much sense in responding to a banned user, but I can't resist.

Superman not a nice guy in SR b/c

...got LOis pregnant and left town w/o telling her.
Didn't Know she was pregnant, She ddidn't know it was his child.

of, if you lke

...was involved in a sexual relationship w/ Lois and left town w/o telling her. "I know that's how women like to be treated."
Relationships end, sometimes you don't officially break, things just fade.


Brought child into the world who will now have serious issues and probably therapy b/c Superman was 'a nice guy.'

highly doubtful since he lives in a happy home and when the time comes, they'll find a way for Superman to be a major part of his life.

Facilitated Luthor's release from prison b/c SUperman's a 'nice guy.'
It took four years of appeals, that's not facilitating a release. he was off world and out of contact.

[Hunter Rider]

Then who did she think was the kids father ? and even if they had grown apart she was his best friend,you don't just leave without saying why or bye
I don't get why every facet of this movie needs to be defended even when it's clearly flawed,i enjoyed it a lot but come on

[Maze]

you don't just leave without saying why or bye
I don't get why every facet of this movie needs to be defended even when it's clearly flawed,i enjoyed it a lot but come on
Hi hunter rider

You're right , you don't leave without saying good bye. i would not do that ( i think) you would not do that (i suppose) but who's to say that in some circumstance with a different background we would not do it?

everything in this movie has not to be defended Hunter. but everything has not to be attacked either :especially there just because some people just can't imagine that Superman could not do a mistake in a certain emotionnal spirit .(that i can easily imagine )

[The Kid]

How many months has it been guys... this horse is officially fossilized.

[Maze]

How many months has it been guys... this horse is officially fossilized.
Well, i agree . :yay:

we can move on Sr2 now ? (and your probable numerous complain ? :woot: :cwink: )

[The Kid]

We'll see how things go...

[Maze]

That i like too :woot: :cwink:

[Hunter Rider]

Hi hunter rider

You're right , you don't leave without saying good bye. i would not do that ( i think) you would not do that (i suppose) but who's to say that in some circumstance with a different background we would not do it?

everything in this movie has not to be defended Hunter. but everything has not to be attacked either :especially there just because some people just can't imagine that Superman could not do a mistake in a certain emotionnal spirit .(that i can easily imagine )

Hey Maze:cwink:

To me it comes down to characterization,As you say neither you or i would have left without saying goodbye and letting the person we cared so much about know and Superman is supposed to be an example of integrity plus his only excuse was "it was to hard for him" which is just poor characterization

[Maze]

Well, i understand that . but for me being an example of intergrity doesnt' mean that you can't do mistakes in having a depression : i've never been adopted , but i heard and read a lot of similar situation.. and the people in question had a a good and responsible education.

[Maze]

That said i will leave it at that .don't take it the wrong way Hunter , but i've done this debate for month ,and i understand that for some what 's happened in Sr is impossible and intolerable.

We will never agree , that's all :)

I think it's time to move on :)

[Hunter Rider]

Fair enough Maze i can respect that and yes it has been done to death i agree:cwink:

[phil]

The problem with the WB giving a good Superman movie is they have no idea what would be a good Superman movie. They gave the greenlight to Singer's pathetic version of Superman, that proves it.

[Maze]

That doesn't prove anything.

your point of view , that's all.

[Maze]

Hunter :yay: :cwink:

[GreenKToo]

well,lets just hope that we all get what we want out of the sequel....for me, its a supervillian with a fight.

[SentinelMind]

I don't care too much about the action (although I understand a villain would have made the film exciting), I would have preferred a better characterization of Superman and more optimistic and inspirational presentation of Supes while dealing with internal and moral conflicts. Mega joe pretty much summarized problem with Superman Returns.

The argument that Superman didn't know Lois was pregnant, thus was entitled to leave is selfish and foolish. That's like some deadbeat guy having sex with his girl and then taking a trip to Arizona. The deadbeat didn't know his girl was pregnant, right? Superman isn't a teenager (or not suppose to be characterized as one) and should be able to stick around and see if Lois is alright, in a good position in life before taking up and leaving. He should also communicate with her. In fact, if had communicated with her, he might have found out she was pregnant. There shouldn't be a discussion here and the stretching you fanatics do for this film is unbelievable and sad.

But even looking to the future, I'm skeptical about the sequel. The thing about Superman 3 and 4 is that those were bad films, but they didn't tarnish Supes character so much that a good sequel to those couldn't be made. It's sort of like James Bond franchise, some additions are campy and others are more serious. However, with Superman Returns, Singer has written himself into a box and tarnished the potential of this franchise. All sequels have to be set up on Singer's silly premises and bad characterization of Superman.

[superbaby]

...

But even looking to the future, I'm skeptical about the sequel. The thing about Superman 3 and 4 is that those were bad films, but they didn't tarnish Supes character so much that a good sequel to those couldn't be made. It's sort of like James Bond franchise, some additions are campy and others are more serious. However, with Superman Returns, Singer has written himself into a box and tarnished the potential of this franchise. All sequels have to be set up on Singer's silly premises and bad characterization of Superman.

exactly. what's more horrible is that WB didn't realise that. :(

[The Kid]

We'll get Superman Begins some day. Maybe.

[bunk]

Why do people keep saying Singer wrote himself into a corner? You probably won't like how he progresses the story, but I promise you he does know where he's going with this, as far as Superman, Lois, Richard, and Jason are concerned.

[DvilDog]

He does know exactly where he is going, or at least has an idea. I personally think that even if you didnt Like SR you will like MOS. Im not gonna lie I want to see that big super battle between supes and someone! Hopefully Darkseid or Doomsday for me. But I would take Brainiac too!!

[mego joe]

Why do people keep saying Singer wrote himself into a corner? You probably won't like how he progresses the story, but I promise you he does know where he's going with this, as far as Superman, Lois, Richard, and Jason are concerned.

My opinion on this is that when you become a parent your children become your first priority over anything else, and if they don't, you aren't being a good parent. Therefore, if Superman is going to be portrayed as a good parent then Jason has to be the most important thing in his life. However, SR already shows that SUperman's sense of responsiblity towards being a parent is questionable. How can you be a good parent when your child doesn't even know who his 'real' father is? The answer to me is that you can't. You've already acted irresponsibly to get yourself into a situation where your child deosn't know that you are his dad.?!?!

Plus, it is highly likely that the sequel will involve Jason as a victim of sorts in a plot against SUperman, making the plot be more about a personal attack on Superman rather than a story that involves SUperman saving the world/ Metropolis from a dangerous villain/ threat. THis COULD be good, but should anyone really know that SUperman has a son? Are Superman stories really based on personal attacks against his family? It just seems to be moving farther away from the type of stories one enjoys when experienceing a Superman story.

The next step is that if Jason is endangered b/c he is SUperman's son, it just serves to emphasize how badly SUperman screwed up in the first movie. Superman being a screw up is not integral to the essence of the character. It actually fights against the essence of the character.

Now, say SInger more or less ignores Jason in the sequel. Then the question becomes "Why introduce him at all if he's not going to be a major part of the succeeding films?"

So it goes like this. Singer is kind of obligated to deal with Jason otherwise his existence and introduction in SR is pointless, but if he does make him a major part of the story the movie becoms either: Son of SUperman, or Superman's Mistakes Emphasized, moving the film further away from the essence of the character.

If you make the Jason character a major part of the sequel, Superman and the audience are constantly reminded of Superman's mistakes, and while SUperman may not be perfect or infallible, his flaws are not what are integral to understanding the character, which I thing SR incorrectly suggests.

[mego joe]

He does know exactly where he is going, or at least has an idea. I personally think that even if you didnt Like SR you will like MOS. Im not gonna lie I want to see that big super battle between supes and someone! Hopefully Darkseid or Doomsday for me. But I would take Brainiac too!!


He may know what he wants to do next, but it doesn't give me any confidnce in the sequel or that I will actually like it. (BTW, that implies that I will actually see it, and at this point there is nothing to make me think I will see it.)

For those of us that REALLY disliked SR, it was not in the aspects of action, or the colors of the costume, or necessarily the homage/ retread ot the Donner films, it all comes down to the charcterizaiton of SUpemran and a personal story that seems to be about as far from a Superman story as you can get.

So, if Jason is in the film, a constant reminder that Singer's vision of SUperman is of a screw up whose character essence is defined by the public hero/ private screw up in his personal relationships/ responsibility, then I will not like it. If it exists in the same world as SR, I will not like it, I won't even be willing to give it a chance. The problems with SR are in the fundamental vision of Singer's Superman, it is not in execution or action sequences. While some points of execution could have improved the film, SInger's basic view of SUperman was the problem with the film, and I don't expect that that will change for the sequel.

[DvilDog]

He may know what he wants to do next, but it doesn't give me any confidnce in the sequel or that I will actually like it. (BTW, that implies that I will actually see it, and at this point there is nothing to make me think I will see it.)

For those of us that REALLY disliked SR, it was not in the aspects of action, or the colors of the costume, or necessarily the homage/ retread ot the Donner films, it all comes down to the charcterizaiton of SUpemran and a personal story that seems to be about as far from a Superman story as you can get.

So, if Jason is in the film, a constant reminder that Singer's vision of SUperman is of a screw up whose character essence is defined by the public hero/ private screw up in his personal relationships/ responsibility, then I will not like it. If it exists in the same world as SR, I will not like it, I won't even be willing to give it a chance. The problems with SR are in the fundamental vision of Singer's Superman, it is not in execution or action sequences. While some points of execution could have improved the film, SInger's basic view of SUperman was the problem with the film, and I don't expect that that will change for the sequel.


Im sorry Singers view of Superman did not fit yours and some other peoples. Thats all i can say. You seem truely upset. Im not a comic book fan myself but I have read a few supes comics seen a few eps of JLA, and watched pretty much anything and everything superman. even the bad stuff. I liked his interpretation. If you dont then like I said I apologize and I hope in 10 or so years they make the type of supes movie you want

[Cell]

Exhibit A:
Spider-man's box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman.htm)

Exhibit B:
Superman Returns box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman06.htm)

First things first, I'm not citing the box office draw of each of these films to make the case for why one is superior to the other, nor am I saying this is proof positive that Superman Returns simply sucks. But what I will say is that the disparity here is unacceptable, and inexcusable, both in the business and creative sense. For those who enjoyed watching Singer's vision of Superman, well good for you. Here's the bottom-line as I see it... had Superman Returns been a Superman film more in line with the preferences and expectations of people like mego joe... I'm almost certain this disparity in box office receipts would not be so pronounced (competing with Pirates of the Caribbean 2 can not explain this away completely). It was simply not the Superman film a good number of people wanted to see. While comic boards such as this one are usually home to plenty of detractors for every film under the sun, the schism this film has created is impressive by any standard. The debate has been beaten to death alright, but the right film would never have produced such a heated debate in the first place.

[WormyT]

But even looking to the future, I'm skeptical about the sequel. The thing about Superman 3 and 4 is that those were bad films, but they didn't tarnish Supes character so much that a good sequel to those couldn't be made. It's sort of like James Bond franchise, some additions are campy and others are more serious. However, with Superman Returns, Singer has written himself into a box and tarnished the potential of this franchise. All sequels have to be set up on Singer's silly premises and bad characterization of Superman.

Wise words!


And did anyone read that god awful interview about Jesus/Spirituality/Superman crap. God almighty, try and get the Superman Character RIGHT before trying to make a Boring New Testament to the Bible. Yeah I know Superman died and returned in the books but we were not bored to death. We got 4 new temporary Supermen, a city destroyed, Mongul, a new Supervillain(cyborg Superman) and an amazing new Super Mullet.

SR needed action and excitement, NOT boring religeous visuals. I couldn't connect with the poor guy because he said nothing throughout the whole movie, did nothing, and they emotionally lost me the second he started lifting a bloody continent of deadly Kryptonite.

[Maze]

Exhibit A:
Spider-man's box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman.htm)

Exhibit B:
Superman Returns box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman06.htm)

First things first, I'm not citing the box office draw of each of these films to make the case for why one is superior to the other, nor am I saying this is proof positive that Superman Returns simply sucks. But what I will say is that the disparity here is unacceptable, and inexcusable, both in the business and creative sense. For those who enjoyed watching Singer's vision of Superman, well good for you. Here's the bottom-line as I see it... had Superman Returns been a Superman film more in line with the preferences and expectations of people like mego joe... I'm almost certain this disparity in box office receipts would not be so pronounced (competing with Pirates of the Caribbean 2 can not explain this away completely). It was simply not the Superman film a good number of people wanted to see. While comic boards such as this one are usually home to plenty of detractors for every film under the sun, the schism this film has created is impressive by any standard. The debate has been beaten to death alright, but the right film would never have produced such a heated debate in the first place.

I don't agree.

Batman returns for example , imo , is a very good movie.

but,if it had been released in these days of internet the batboards would be a blood bath even worse than here.

even more ,mediocre (or even bad) box office number doesn't equal each time quality ,or movies like 2001 or Blade Runner would be considered critical failure.

Sometimes the vision of a director, please "everybody" sometimes not.

But personnally i'm only interested by good movies .. not a product that will try to please everybody.

[superbaby]

Why do people keep saying Singer wrote himself into a corner? You probably won't like how he progresses the story, but I promise you he does know where he's going with this, as far as Superman, Lois, Richard, and Jason are concerned.
you promise??? did you promise that the red would get brighter during the post production???

btw, what the storyline i can forsee is lex luthor will kidnap the kid, superman falls into the kryptonite trap again to save his son. disaster comes (the so-called war of khan), kid saves his father. the father saves metropolis. all questions & relationships will still be unresolved.

mark my words.

[Maze]

btw, what the storyline i can forsee is lex luthor will kidnap the kid, superman falls into the kryptonite trap again to save his son. disaster comes (the so-called war of khan), kid saves his father. the father saves metropolis. all questions & relationships will still be unresolved.

mark my words.

Yes and it will suck :o

Singer has raped the legend and it's only the beginning! :o

And ,every of your words here will not change a thing.

(i wanted just a little fun , you can continue ...:cwink: )

[bunk]

you promise??? did you promise that the red would get brighter during the post production???

btw, what the storyline i can forsee is lex luthor will kidnap the kid, superman falls into the kryptonite trap again to save his son. disaster comes (the so-called war of khan), kid saves his father. the father saves metropolis. all questions & relationships will still be unresolved.

mark my words.


Did I promise the red would get brighter? ....uh no...maybe you're getting me confused with somebody. And I like I said, you'll probably hate what Singer does, I don't promise it'll be good. WB would want to know where Singer plans to take the storyline involving Jason before he creates the character. Singer would've been thinking about Jean becoming Phoenix even before filming on the first movie began. Oh, and your words have been marked and quoted.

[Cell]

I don't agree.

Batman returns for example , imo , is a very good movie.

but,if it had been released in these days of internet the batboards would be a blood bath even worse than here.

even more ,mediocre (or even bad) box office number doesn't equal each time quality ,or movies like 2001 or Blade Runner would be considered critical failure.

Sometimes the vision of a director, please "everybody" sometimes not.

But personnally i'm only interested by good movies .. not a product that will try to please everybody.

And I in turn, do not agree with this sentiment, or at least parts of it. Making the Superman film people really wanted to see does not equate to a product that will 'try to please everybody', as difficult as that may be to understand. It simply means that there exists an alternate approach to the Superman mythos that just happens to be more in alignment with many peoples expectations, and that this approach(s) has much more potential for ultimately yielding a >good Superman film by any standard<, or at least one better than Superman Returns. The point was that Singers approach failed in this respect, and it adversely affected the quality of the film in certain ways from the perspective of very many people, not just those on the fringe who can 'never' be pleased.

A Superman film has every bit of potential that a Spider-man film has to draw an audience in and perhaps even more, Superman Returns failed to exploit this potential, plain and simple. I'm not saying SR should have made >just as much< money as Spider-man, and have that be the ultimate benchmark of its overall quality, I'm just saying there's no reason for such a severe disparity. Now it's true that it's impossible to please everyone, but it is possible to make a Superman movie that is so appealing that it enjoys more praise than heated debate over its quality, as other films in the genre have managed. Batman Begins by and large is considered to have nailed things just right, they pleased a good percentage of the fan-base, the professional critics, and the average moviegoer in one fell swoop. Keeping in mind of course that that license may not be quite as populist in its intrinsic appeal, probably because of its darker tone, just another reason I chose Spider-man as the point of comparison.

Further, here's why the reference/comparison to Batman Returns does not work. I used Spider-man as a reference on purpose, for one because it was contemporary (4 years ago versus 14 years ago), its source material is comparable in tone, and because it was birthing a new film franchise, just like Superman Returns (although more of a rebirth in its case). Plus, it wasn't anywhere near as stylized as the Burton films. The Burton films were hyper-stylized depictions of Batman, and before there was any Batman Returns, we had the first film to introduce us to that reality. What's more, there simply wasn't anywhere near as much pressure from the public at large or even from the studio producing it to deliver any particular kind of film one way or another, relatively speaking that is.

But most importantly, irrespective of Tim Burton's characteristic visual flare, the screen-writers (not Burton) wrote those films to be entertaining popcorn flicks, minus the camp of the TV show, and they are widely considered to have succeeded. While the style of those films don't necessarily fit with my vision of how Batman should be realized on the big-screen, at least I can see how they are genuinely entertaining and substantive in their own right, as whimsical interpretations of the source material. That license simply lends itself more to that sort of thing quite frankly.

Had Superman Returns been as genuinely entertaining on its own as a film, irrespective of the particulars of Singers approach to the Superman mythos, then I wouldn't mind it so much, and I think it would have reflected positively on its box office earnings. As it is, it failed to accomplish even this, and in the process went one step further and presented a vision of a pop culture icon that I and not a few, but many others do not agree with, one that fails to truly utilize the potential inherent to the license.

[Maze]

[QUOTE]Further, here's why the reference/comparison to Batman Returns does not work. I used Spider-man as a reference on purpose, for one because it was contemporary (4 years ago versus 14 years ago), its source material is comparable in tone, and because it was birthing a new film franchise, just like Superman Returns (although more of a rebirth in its case). Plus, it wasn't anywhere near as stylized as the Burton films. The Burton films were hyper-stylized depictions of Batman, and before there was any Batman Returns, we had the first film to introduce us to that reality. What's more, there simply wasn't anywhere near as much pressure from the public at large or even from the studio producing it to deliver any particular kind of film one way or another, relatively speaking that is.

But most importantly, irrespective of Tim Burton's characteristic visual flare, the screen-writers (not Burton) wrote those films to be entertaining popcorn flicks, minus the camp of the TV show, and they are widely considered to have succeeded. While the style of those films don't necessarily fit with my vision of how Batman should be realized on the big-screen, at least I can see how they are genuinely entertaining and substantive in their own right, as whimsical interpretations of the source material. That license simply lends itself more to that sort of thing quite frankly.

Your argument doesn't hold.

Yes Spiderman tone (normally) is more akin to Superman, but i i simply said that Returns is considered not respectful of Superman like Br.And there have been heated debate about it even to this day.. if it has been released one year ago instead of Batman Begins there would have been a blood bath imo.. i know too many Batman fans to doubt that.and no Batman returns especially was not written as a pop corn flick..But rather like a dark comedy /horror film (it's not even an action film)

after that, the appreciation of the movie is personnal opinion (but even if yes the Burton movie are more stylised yes , Sr is too..not an important point in what we are saying but that's my opinion )

[Maze]

that there exists an alternate approach to the Superman mythos that just happens to be more in alignment with many peoples expectations, and that this approach(s) has much more potential for ultimately yielding a >good Superman film by any standard<, or at least one better than Superman Returns. The point was that Singers approach failed in this respect, and it adversely affected the quality of the film in certain ways from the perspective of very many people, not just those on the fringe who can 'never' be pleased.
And i repeat myself: sometimes a director vision is more in alligment with "everybody ", sometimes not.

i just don't wan't an artist compromising his vision to please the fan base.

Even more when it's about a Superhero who had ton of incarnation .. and sometimes talking a lot of liberties ( Byrne's Superman )

[Maze]

but it is possible to make a Superman movie that is so appealing that it enjoys more praise than heated debate over its quality,

But it's the case you know. the more heated debate around here especially ( look on a" normal site for example , the movie is rather liked) are about the kid and Superman so called selfish side.and sometimes about the quality of the movie ( and even there some haters recognize that the movie is well directed ,aside, from some flaws in pacing, the script departement ,and sometimes even acting)

you know, i talked to a great number of person of the Gp (who didn't like and liked the movie) online and on the streets , they just don't know what that talk about a decadent superman is .. they just saw a good guy on screen .. who has a character crisis.

You don't need to please ALL the fan base and make Spiderman Box office numbers to make a good movie about Superman . it could have been the case ,yes , if the director vision was in alignement with "everybody" but i for one am glad it is not the case.. Spiderman movies? good movie really well done , enjoyable.. but subtle , really deep?really moving? not in my opinion.

[Cell]

Your argument doesn't hold.

i simply said that Returns is considered not respectful of Superman like Br.And there have been heated debate about it even to this day.. if it has been released one year ago instead of Batman Begins there would have been a blood bath imo.. i know too many Batman fans to doubt that.

after that, the appreciation of the movie is personnal opinion (but even if yes the Burton movie are more stylised yes , Sr is too..not an important point in what we are saying but that's my opinion )

The argument holds just fine, you just don't agree with it, there is a difference. The debate over Superman Returns also far, >far<, outstrips any debate over Burton's films, and this will become increasingly apparent over time. The problems with Superman Returns lay far beyond it simply not being 'respectful' of the source material. Also, all films have some sort of style, the point was Batman Returns was poignantly more stylized in comparison.


and i repeat myself: sometimes a director vision is more in alligment with "everybody ", sometimes not.

i just don't wan't an artist compromising his vision to please the fan base.

Even more when it's about a Superhero who had ton of incarnation .. and sometimes talking a lot of liberties ( Byrne Superman )

There's plenty of room for interpretation, new approaches, and so forth with these kinds of things... it just so happens that in this case... the vision many have for the license holds more potential to yield a superior Superman film than Singers particular take.. and I understand thats purely a matter of opinion. No one is talking about 'compromising' visions for anybody, the creative process should naturally select the approach that is best for the expression of a story in a particular medium. In fact, of course there exists different approaches to the source material than what we've seen, many the vast majority of people haven't even thought of... and many of >those visions< would undoubtedly make for a superior approach to the material for a Superman film than what I've seen so far of Singers approach. That too, is a matter of opinion... but we shall see where the sequels take us with Singer still on-board... I hope it's to a better film.

[Maze]

ps Talking about Burton :

There's a story BATMAN director Tim Burton likes to tell. In 1978 Burton was still in school and was attending a big comic book convention in San Diego. The event was held just a few months before Richard Donner's big budget SUPERMAN movie was due to open and a Warner Bros press officer was there to give a slide show presentation featuring scenes from the production.

"The ballroom was packed with people," said Burton. "All eyes were glued to the screen with this poor Warner guy trying to keep it all under control. Suddenly, one fan stood up and screamed, 'Superman would never change into his costume on a ledge of a building. I'm going to boycott this movie and tell everyone you are destroying the legend! Intense applause followed as he stormed out of the hall. Wow, I thought. And from that moment on I always knew in the back of my mind the enormous problems facing anyone taking on a film version of a comic book hero.

[Maze]

The argument holds just fine, you just don't agree with it, there is a difference. The debate over Superman Returns also far, >far<, outstrips any debate over Burton's films, and this will become increasingly apparent over time. The problems with Superman Returns lay far beyond it simply not being 'respectful' of the source material. Also, all films have some sort of style, the point was Batman Returns was poignantly more stylized in comparison.
If you say so.. talk to hardcore batman fans about that ...

About the debate over time. so you are a medium? seeing things in an alternate reality? no seriously just kidding with you.. but you know what? even on ain't it cool news THE site where fan like to spit on movies , there is a good percentage of people who like the movie (and some after having seen it anew on dvd.)

as for your second point, nope, not every movie is stylised as Sr.

after that Burton movies are more radical? .. of course there are.So? that mean because a Michael Mann Movie is not as outrageous as a burton in style it is not very stylised? nope it's just not as radical that's all.



There's plenty of room for interpretation, new approaches, and so forth with these kinds of things... it just so happens that in this case... the vision many have for the license holds more potential to yield a superior Superman film than Singers particular take.. and I understand thats purely a matter of opinion. No one is talking about 'compromising' visions for anybody, the creative process should naturally select the approach that is best for the expression of a story in a particular medium. In fact, of course there exists different approaches to the source material than what we've seen, many the vast majority of people haven't even thought of... and many of >those visions< would undoubtedly make for a superior approach to the material for a Superman film than what I've seen so far of Singers approach. That too, is a matter of opinion... but we shall see where the sequels take us with Singer still on-board... I hope it's to a better film.

yup if you mean that you hope that the second movie will be more in allignement with what you like .. that i can understand.

[Cell]

If you say so.. talk to hardcore batman fans about that ;)

About the time thing. so you are a medium? seeing things in an alternate reality? no seriously just kidding with you.. but you know what? even on ain't it cool news THE site where fan like to spit on movies , there is a good percentage of people who like the movie after having seen it anew on dvd.

as for your second point, nope, not every movie is stylised as Sr.
after that Burton movies are more radical? .. of course there are.So? that mean because a Michael Mann Movie is not as outrageous as a burton in style it is not really stylised? nope it's just not as radical that's all.

Degree of stylization is also a matter of opinion. There's no question it has it's own distinct style, specifically in the visual sense, but I don't feel it's taken to a degree that defines that world one way or another, the way Burton's aesthetics tend to do with his films. We more or less agree on the general point, I think.


yup if you mean that you hope that the second movie will be more in allignement with what you like .. that i can understand.


If I end up loving the film it's likely his approach evolved into something I agreed with, or it might be a completely fresh spin no one saw coming that does it for me. Either way, I'd settle for a film that manages to generally entertain me past the first hour at this point.

[Maze]

.There's no question it has it's own distinct style, specifically in the visual sense, but I don't feel it's taken to a degree that defines that world one way or another, the way Burton's aesthetics tend to do with his films. We more or less agree on the general point, I think.
Yep we are. It just needed some clarification.

thanks you .:yay:




If I end up loving the film it's likely his approach evolved into something I agreed with, or it might be a completely fresh spin no one saw coming that does it for me. Either way, I'd settle for a film that manages to generally entertain me past the first hour at this point

Yup.

i guess we'll see.:yay: for a number of reasons , imo the Superman sequel has a llot of chances to be very interesting , but we'll see yup :yay:

[Slipping_Halo]

Superman Returns should have been a masterpiece. If Superman: The Movie is the Citizen Kane of superhero movies, Superman Returns should have been The Godfather. It had every ounce of potential to be the greatest thing ever, to prove once and for all who the real big guy is, and it fell flat on its face.

There were moments, sparks of these things in Superman Returns but the fire was conspicuously missing throughout-starting with the crappy suit and ending with the horrid act of giving him a child. It should have been a masterpiece but instead was mediocre. A true Superman film with all the action, character and magic that Superman carries inherently as a comic book character would entertain and satisfy all Superman fans despite petty squabbles over things like the size of the shield or cheesy one-liners.

A Superman film done right should make the hairs on a Superman fan-any Superman fan-'s neck stand up. The scenes of unabashed heroism should incite tears for it's stunningly poignant reminder of why we love this character. I didn't get that from Superman Returns.

[Cell]

Superman Returns should have been a masterpiece. If Superman: The Movie is the Citizen Kane of superhero movies, Superman Returns should have been The Godfather. It had every ounce of potential to be the greatest thing ever, to prove once and for all who the real big guy is, and it fell flat on its face.

There were moments, sparks of these things in Superman Returns but the fire was conspicuously missing throughout-starting with the crappy suit and ending with the horrid act of giving him a child. It should have been a masterpiece but instead was mediocre. A true Superman film with all the action, character and magic that Superman carries inherently as a comic book character would entertain and satisfy all Superman fans despite petty squabbles over things like the size of the shield or cheesy one-liners.

A Superman film done right should make the hairs on a Superman fan-any Superman fan-'s neck stand up. The scenes of unabashed heroism should incite tears for it's stunningly poignant reminder of why we love this character. I didn't get that from Superman Returns.

Precisely, and I would add, it should make the hairs on >everyone's< neck stand up, it has that potential. This general sentiment is simply not isolated to a few hardcore comic book fans, the likes of which were denouncing Burton's hyper-stylized films at comic book conventions 18 years ago 'till today, it's shared by a much greater margin of the audience in this case.

[raybia]

WB, don't try too hard to faithfully continue from SR. afterall, SR is sending wrong messages, and it has too many bad attachments.

you would have no time to introduce new villains, to develop the new plot, the characters of clark kent, superman & lois lane, and to get the public involved if you went to develop the kid storyline; the superman & the kid relationship, the triangular love, to explain richard white and to bring lex luthor back into business.

if you made a faithful sequel of SR, it would only lead you to dead end and kill the superman movie franchise all together.

pls just make a good superman movie. the metallo & brainiac episodes of the animation of superman are some of the examples of a good structure superman film you can refer to.

Ok, the damage has been done.

For the sequel, I say make it as much like Spider-man II as possible.

Yeah, I know that is completely un-original but WB has shown they don't know how in the hell to properly handle DC's flagship character so just follow the Sony formula OR just give the Superman movie rights to Sony and let them make it.

[Maze]

For the sequel, I say make it as much like Spider-man II as possible.

.
And i say , no thanks .

And i don't even think that it would be a good idea ..nobody did a Matrix success in mimicking Matrix.

If the franchise succed or fail it will be with his own identity ( yeah i know Donner clone etc , not what i saw )

[raybia]

And i say , no thanks .

And i don't even think that it would be a good idea ..nobody did a Matrix success in mimicking Matrix.

If the franchise succed or fail it will be with his own identity ( yeah i know Donner clone etc , not what i saw )


Thats NOT what I really want (A spider-man knockoff)

What I really wanted was a live-action version of Superman: TAS...more or less, and eye-popping visuals.

To be honest, a T2 on steroids as far as action.

[Cell]

It could've been all that and more... and yes the extent to which the film parallels the Donner film goes too far in my estimation. Also, Singers approach doesn't have exclusive rights for delivering a deeply moving Superman film with a great deal of emotional breadth and resonance, there are a myriad different ways this can be delivered on film using this license. He had some of the right intentions, he just failed on the execution. Spider-man may lack the same 'gravitas' Superman has inherently, he is after-all a more 'down to earth' character, but over-emphasizing that one element in a Superman film at the expense of what makes the fiction truly entertaining and inspirational for a lot of people doesn't make any sense to me. The impact of this is felt in individual plot elements that are major points of contention and debate on this forum and all over the internet, as well as the overall quality of the film.

[JamalYIgle]

It could've been all that and more... and yes the extent to which the film parallels the Donner film goes too far in my estimation. Also, Singers approach doesn't have exclusive rights for delivering a deeply moving Superman film with a great deal of emotional breadth and resonance, there are a myriad different ways this can be delivered on film using this license. He had some of the right intentions, he just failed on the execution. Spider-man may lack the same 'gravitas' Superman has inherently, he is after-all a more 'down to earth' character, but over-emphasizing that one element in a Superman film at the expense of what makes the fiction truly entertaining and inspirational for a lot of people doesn't make any sense to me. The impact of this is felt in individual plot elements that are major points of contention and debate on this forum and all over the internet, as well as the overall quality of the film.
I think people get disappointed because they build up their own estimations of what the film should be, instead of what the finished film is. The problem is taht you want to see YOUR version of a Superman movie,based on your vision of Superman. not every one shares your particular vision, other people have another view of the character, which is just as valid as yours. So it's raelly not for you to say what should and should not be done, unless you're the one doing the film.

[Cell]

I think people get disappointed because they build up their own estimations of what the film should be, instead of what the finished film is. The problem is taht you want to see YOUR version of a Superman movie,based on your vision of Superman. not every one shares your particular vision, other people have another view of the character, which is just as valid as yours. So it's raelly not for you to say what should and should not be done, unless you're the one doing the film.

Nope, although everyone would like to see their version of anything brought to life on film, I don't particularly care. I just know Singers version doesn't cut it for a lot of people including myself. It is for me to say what should and should not be done, for they are the producers and I am the consumer, and for the most part my sentiments will be expressed in dollars. When they produce what I want to consume, they will be rewarded accordingly with my praise and then some. If they produce what turns out to be what many other people want, they get rewarded with their praise. If I end up in the minority, not liking something others love, so be it, that's not the case here.

I also knew to temper my expectations and kept myself mostly in the dark about the film so as not to risk being let down or anything of the sort. Now, did I go again and again to see the film as I had hoped I'd feel compelled to do? Nope, they lose. Did I go out and buy the DVD? Nope, they lose again. Could they have gotten me to do so? Along with millions of others, thus creating the true blockbuster a Superman film has the potential to be? Yep, but they didn't deliver to that extent. It was a commercial success, make no mistake, and thank goodness, since now there's a chance for another try in a sequel, but the film didn't even meet their own expectations.

[JamalYIgle]

Nope, although everyone would like to see their version of anything brought to life on film, I don't particularly care. I just know Singers version doesn't cut it for a lot of people including myself. It is for me to say what should and should not be done, for they are the producers and I am the consumer, and for the most part my sentiments will be expressed in dollars. When they produce what I want to consume, they will be rewarded accordingly with my praise and then some. If they produce what turns out to be what many other people want, they get rewarded with their praise. If I end up in the minority, not liking something others love, so be it, that's not the case here.

I also knew to temper my expectations and kept myself mostly in the dark about the film so as not to risk being let down or anything of the sort. Now, did I go again and again to see the film as I had hoped I'd feel compelled to do? Nope, they lose. Did I go out and buy the DVD? Nope, they lose again. Could they have gotten me to do so? Along with millions of others, thus creating the true blockbuster a Superman film has the potential to be? Yep, but they didn't deliver to that extent. It was a commercial success, make no mistake, and thank goodness, since now there's a chance for another try in a sequel, but the film didn't even meet their own expectations.
you've proved my point again.

[Cell]

you've proved my point again.

Mind shattering counter-point, I guess you got me.

[JamalYIgle]

Mind shattering counter-point, I guess you got me.
All right I'll break it down for you. Through you last statement, you fill it with the conceit that they had to please you as a fan in order to create the ultimate Superman Movie. no they don't have to please you , because while you and others may have been disappointed by the movie there were millions of people, myself included , who weren't. in any creative endevour there is a rule. You can only serve one master and if you put something out there it will find an audience. So does Bryan have to listen to random fans , who can't agree on a unified vision of what Superman should be about? No he has to serve himself, his vision of the franchise, and his voice within the Superman universe. For you, I or anyone else to try and dictate to him what he should do is wrong and a disservice.

[Cell]

All right I'll break it down for you. Through you last statement, you fill it with the conceit that they had to please you as a fan in order to create the ultimate Superman Movie. no they don't have to please you , because while you and others may have been disappointed by the movie there were millions of people, myself included , who weren't. in any creative endevour there is a rule. You can only serve one master and if you put something out there it will find an audience. So does Bryan have to listen to random fans , who can't agree on a unified vision of what Superman should be about? No he has to serve himself, his vision of the franchise, and his voice within the Superman universe. For you, I or anyone else to try and dictate to him what he should do is wrong and a disservice.

We aren't debating morality or freedom of will here. He creates a product, I generate an opinion of it that I am free to express, and he learns of my approval or disapproval in financial terms, that simple. Unless I speak with him directly and in a derogatory tone at that on the subject, I am doing no one a disservice and it is not 'wrong', it is simply my opinion expressed openly as it is my right, and one you happen to disagree with.

Anyway, he hardly has to go so far as pleasing me as a 'fan', as I said many posts earlier, delivering a film I would at the very least find entertaining irrespective of his take on the Superman mythos would satisfy me, he failed to do even that for me and I am not 'wrong' for having this view. Finally, the proof is in the numbers, a true modern blockbuster of a Superman film, regardless of who's vision it follows, has yet to be made. I hope he hits it out of the park for more people with the sequel.

[raybia]

Well, I guess on one hand, whether SR was a great movie or not is an individually subjective response WHILE on the other I would dare to say that SR was not universally deemed a victory at the box office or as a critically acclaimed movie...certainly not in the way movies like BB, T2, Matrix, or Titantic was.

I regret to say that I was disappointed with the direction that Singer took and the movie its self. Was it a bad movie? NO. It was in my opinion, the 3rd best Superman movie made after 1 and 2. I always had doubts if someone could capture the magic of the 1st one, but fully expected it to be better than S:II. However SR, it was an uninspired effort.

I for one wanted a restart and a live action version of TAS.

After seeing SR, I wouldn't even mind as much if they decided to go in another direction by setting the movie in the early '40s, with Nazis, giant Robots, and essential making a live action Fleschier movie, with the same visuals as Sky Captain and making a story remincient of an Indy movie as far as a movie filled with action and adventure and having someone like Brad Bird direct (Incredibles, Iron Giant.)

Even that would have been a victory over what was essentially a 21st century retelling of Superman: The Movie.

Sorry, but Singers approach showed he had no real imagination on where to take the Man of Steel and an unhealthly fascination with Donner's movie.

If he is going to direct the sequel, fine, but get someone else to write the story, preferrable someone who is a Superman fanboy and expert. Kind of like how Nolan brought Goyer on board. To me, this showed Nolan's committment to get it as right as possible by putting his ego in check, and admitting that he wasn't an expert on the Dark Knight.

[WormyT]

You know,
for a superhero flick SR lacks SO many kodak moments. This is probably what gave the marketing teams massive head aches. I work as an artist at a company and know first hand how determined marketing are at making the product look the best.
I watched the TV spots and trailers for the Matrix movies the other day.
man, I'm NOT a big matrix fan at all but those movies have SO many kodak moments. SOme fake, some real, but you remember the shots vividly. You can tell the directors are TRYING to wow us. Give us something we've never seen before.


For marketing SR they really had very little to work with. They would have asked Bryan

Marketing:"Ok, thanks for those few airplane scenes, could we get some footage of him fighting some villains?"
Bryan:" He doesn't fight any Supervillains"
Marketing: "WHat!? But theres a villain right?"
Bryan: "Yes, Lex Luthor".
Marketing:" Hmm, thats kind of unoriginal but OK. Could you provide us with footage of Superman Holding Luthor up by the neck and looking pissed?"
Bryan:" No, he doesn't touch Luthor in my script".
Marketing:"What!? Well, could you give us some footage from they're climactic finale where they talk crap to each other for 5 minutes and utter iconic sinister lines of dialogue"
Bryan:"No, Superman only says 2 sentences. They're verbal interaction is about 5 lines of Dialogue".
Marketing:"But...but it's been 20 years...and the audience will have been sitting for over 2 hours. Does Luthor at least unleash some Giants Robots? We could use footage like that for our ad campaigns and TV spots".
Bryan:"No, Theres no Robots, Supermans got no dialogue, the only thing I can give you is shots of Luthor Stabbing Superman with Kryptonite."
Marketing:"Huh? But how can that be? doesn't he lift a continent of krptonite into space in the lackluster finale?
Bryan:" Thats because he rises into the sky like God with sunshine healing him. He then flies back through the clouds like the lord jesus Christ. I also like how I have him stabbed in the waist like when jesus was speared on the cross after his death. I wanted to have water pour out of his waist wound but Richard Donner talked me out of it saying to 'take it easy' with the biblical references. I'm gonna add it onto the super edition DVD next year anyway."
Marketing" You know, it's going to be really hard to sell this movie Bryan. We at the marketing department have very little to work with. I mean, the airplane rescue is thrilling but thats about it for the action so we can't show too much of THAT in the marketing, but then you leave us with shots of him flying with tears in his eyes, getting stabbed while screaming like a girl and then footage of him saying "it's not easy for me..". Your'e making our job difficult. We can only market this to sensitive women.
Bryan:"Thats not true at all, I'm ALSO going to give you guys footage of a bullet bouncing off his eye and off his chest."
Marketing:"Well I guess thats something but hardly compelling. We belive the world didn't wait 20 years for mediocre rehashed action scenes."

[raybia]

Thats funny, but unfortunately this joke illustrates the problems with SR. My biggest question is how did this movie he greenlighted.

Did WB Execs let the years of limbo this movie was in finally get to them to where they felt forced to take a leap of faith with a proven director?

[TwilightPro101]

I didn't see any problem with the particular approach Singer had with the film. It was a more intelluctual Superman film. It had action in its own way and it established itself as such for that film.

The sequel will be different. Just remember X2.

[DarkSuperman]

Exhibit A:
Spider-man's box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman.htm)

Exhibit B:
Superman Returns box office... (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman06.htm)

First things first, I'm not citing the box office draw of each of these films to make the case for why one is superior to the other, nor am I saying this is proof positive that Superman Returns simply sucks. But what I will say is that the disparity here is unacceptable, and inexcusable, both in the business and creative sense. For those who enjoyed watching Singer's vision of Superman, well good for you. Here's the bottom-line as I see it... had Superman Returns been a Superman film more in line with the preferences and expectations of people like mego joe... I'm almost certain this disparity in box office receipts would not be so pronounced (competing with Pirates of the Caribbean 2 can not explain this away completely). It was simply not the Superman film a good number of people wanted to see. While comic boards such as this one are usually home to plenty of detractors for every film under the sun, the schism this film has created is impressive by any standard. The debate has been beaten to death alright, but the right film would never have produced such a heated debate in the first place.

Firstly...Can I just say I love you? Hahaha.

Secondly, I completely and whole heartedly agree with everything you say. fans of Singer-Man can throw as many excuses as they want for why Superman Returns barely made its money back and why Spider-Man makes almost a BILLION dollars EVERY TIME out of the gate, but its like this...

#1 Nobody likes "Rebirths" with "Vague History" what that really means is "Plot Holes" and "Bad Writing"

#2 Had Singer bothered to research the comics instead of copying Donner like a slacker who didnt study for his final exam, perhaps his film would have been great too.

#3 Whatever, your thoughts about the Spider-Man franchise, those films are damn near perfect. They do it how it was mean't to be done. FAITHFUL Character Driven Dramatic story WITH Super Villain? Check. Amazing Action? Check. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but it seems that if you wanted a superhero franchise as popular as Spiderman...maybe you shoulda took a page outta their play book instead of making a Lame Story about a Superman who cries, knocks up woman, and battles rock. Yes, I said...his biggest challenge was a ROCK. LAME.

Have you seen those toy commercials? "Superman with crystal smashing Action." Yeah...a kid is gonna beg for that action figure.

*Mr Rogers Voice* Now what have we learned today children? That if we want to make a superhero film widely accepted and hailed by the general public and critics alike that we shoulda more strictly follow THE SOURCE MATERIAL, EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF THE CHARACTERS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY WANT. PERIOD.

This is all I have to say on the subject, although Im sure someone is gonna say Im completely wrong and that Superman has always been a boring story about a dude leaving his ex-girlfriend only to return and find her shacked up with a new guy and raising his bastard son.

SR wasnt a bad movie, it just wasnt a Superman Movie. It was Intergalactic Dawson's Creek. It woulda fit just dandy with the CW's new Fall Line up. Coming soon "Krypton's Creek"

*singing loudly* I dont wanna wait, for our lives to be over...

[raybia]

Firstly...Can I just say I love you? Hahaha.

Secondly, I completely and whole heartedly agree with everything you say. fans of Singer-Man can throw as many excuses as they want for why Superman Returns barely made its money back and why Spider-Man makes almost a BILLION dollars EVERY TIME out of the gate, but its like this...

#1 Nobody likes "Rebirths" with "Vague History" what that really means is "Plot Holes" and "Bad Writing"

#2 Had Singer bothered to research the comics instead of copying Donner like a slacker who didnt study for his final exam, perhaps his film would have been great too.

#3 Whatever, your thoughts about the Spider-Man franchise, those films are damn near perfect. They do it how it was mean't to be done. FAITHFUL Character Driven Dramatic story WITH Super Villain? Check. Amazing Action? Check. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but it seems that if you wanted a superhero franchise as popular as Spiderman...maybe you shoulda took a page outta their play book instead of making a Lame Story about a Superman who cries, knocks up woman, and battles rock. Yes, I said...his biggest challenge was a ROCK. LAME.

Have you seen those toy commercials? "Superman with crystal smashing Action." Yeah...a kid is gonna beg for that action figure.

*Mr Rogers Voice* Now what have we learned today children? That if we want to make a superhero film widely accepted and hailed by the general public and critics alike that we shoulda more strictly follow THE SOURCE MATERIAL, EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF THE CHARACTERS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY WANT. PERIOD.

This is all I have to say on the subject, although Im sure someone is gonna say Im completely wrong and that Superman has always been a boring story about a dude leaving his ex-girlfriend only to return and find her shacked up with a new guy and raising his bastard son.

SR wasnt a bad movie, it just wasnt a Superman Movie. It was Intergalactic Dawson's Creek. It woulda fit just dandy with the CW's new Fall Line up. Coming soon "Krypton's Creek"

*singing loudly* I dont wanna wait, for our lives to be over...

DUDE, YOU ARE COMPLETE WRONG AND CLEARLY A SINGER HATER! :cmad:



















Just kidding. :woot:

Your perfectly articulated how I feel about this movie and about my favorite superhero of all.

Can I get you to post all my opinions for me on the hype? :oldrazz:

[WormyT]

*singing loudly* I dont wanna wait, for our lives to be over...
:woot:
Whahahaha!!!!LOL

[DarkSuperman]

You know,
for a superhero flick SR lacks SO many kodak moments. This is probably what gave the marketing teams massive head aches. I work as an artist at a company and know first hand how determined marketing are at making the product look the best.
I watched the TV spots and trailers for the Matrix movies the other day.
man, I'm NOT a big matrix fan at all but those movies have SO many kodak moments. SOme fake, some real, but you remember the shots vividly. You can tell the directors are TRYING to wow us. Give us something we've never seen before.


For marketing SR they really had very little to work with. They would have asked Bryan

Marketing:"Ok, thanks for those few airplane scenes, could we get some footage of him fighting some villains?"
Bryan:" He doesn't fight any Supervillains"
Marketing: "WHat!? But theres a villain right?"
Bryan: "Yes, Lex Luthor".
Marketing:" Hmm, thats kind of unoriginal but OK. Could you provide us with footage of Superman Holding Luthor up by the neck and looking pissed?"
Bryan:" No, he doesn't touch Luthor in my script".
Marketing:"What!? Well, could you give us some footage from they're climactic finale where they talk crap to each other for 5 minutes and utter iconic sinister lines of dialogue"
Bryan:"No, Superman only says 2 sentences. They're verbal interaction is about 5 lines of Dialogue".
Marketing:"But...but it's been 20 years...and the audience will have been sitting for over 2 hours. Does Luthor at least unleash some Giants Robots? We could use footage like that for our ad campaigns and TV spots".
Bryan:"No, Theres no Robots, Supermans got no dialogue, the only thing I can give you is shots of Luthor Stabbing Superman with Kryptonite."
Marketing:"Huh? But how can that be? doesn't he lift a continent of krptonite into space in the lackluster finale?
Bryan:" Thats because he rises into the sky like God with sunshine healing him. He then flies back through the clouds like the lord jesus Christ. I also like how I have him stabbed in the waist like when jesus was speared on the cross after his death. I wanted to have water pour out of his waist wound but Richard Donner talked me out of it saying to 'take it easy' with the biblical references. I'm gonna add it onto the super edition DVD next year anyway."
Marketing" You know, it's going to be really hard to sell this movie Bryan. We at the marketing department have very little to work with. I mean, the airplane rescue is thrilling but thats about it for the action so we can't show too much of THAT in the marketing, but then you leave us with shots of him flying with tears in his eyes, getting stabbed while screaming like a girl and then footage of him saying "it's not easy for me..". Your'e making our job difficult. We can only market this to sensitive women.
Bryan:"Thats not true at all, I'm ALSO going to give you guys footage of a bullet bouncing off his eye and off his chest."
Marketing:"Well I guess thats something but hardly compelling. We belive the world didn't wait 20 years for mediocre rehashed action scenes."


Hahaha, yeah. I love you too.

Bottom line, there's a right and a wrong way to do things. Especially when it comes to Superhero movies. Spiderman with its 180 million budget made almost a billion and Superman Returns barely broke even. Am I saying this proves that film was better than the other? Hell Yes. When I went to see SR there was like 4 people in the theater when I went to see spiderman there was like 30. Thats a big freaking gap, not to mention I saw Spiderman 3 times! I've never seen a movie in the theaters 3 times in my life! But I went to see Spiderman, why? Because it so FAITHFULLU captures the spirit of the character and comics, that I honestly Couldn't believe my eyes. It was like watching magic.

Superman Returns was like watching a 20+ year old Rerun.

[WormyT]

I saw Spiderman 3 times! I've never seen a movie in the theaters 3 times in my life! But I went to see Spiderman, why? Because it so FAITHFULLU captures the spirit of the character and comics, that I honest Couldn't believe my eyes. It was like watching magic.

Superman Returns was like watching a 20+ year old Rerun.

I also saw Spiderman 3 times.
Yes, it wasn't that it was perfect, but I loved seeing the book come to life on the screen. Seeing J Jonah. They made a great Spiderman outfit. Guess what, no one cared that the red and blue colors were vibrant, its Spiderman!!
With Superman his suit should also have been brighter. Before it came out (SR) I didn't actually mind HIS suit until I watched the movie and was like "Uch, his cape is like a cheap brown shower curtain you'd find at a cheap motel were motorway prostitutes hang out, and whats with the brown 'S' shield. Looks like a cheap plastic frisbee.
And why in gods name is SUPERman lying in a hospital bed. Thats hardly Super. Spidey stopped a bloody train for gods sake. Spidey got angry, spidey headbutted, kicked. And Peter Parkers a nerd but he was way more of a hero than creepy stalker, cry baby Superman was in SR.

[raybia]

I also saw Spiderman 3 times.
Yes, it wasn't that it was perfect, but I loved seeing the book come to life on the screen. Seeing J Jonah. They made a great Spiderman outfit. Guess what, no one cared that the red and blue colors were vibrant, its Spiderman!!
With Superman his suit should also have been brighter. Before it came out (SR) I didn't actually mind HIS suit until I watched the movie and was like "Uch, his cape is like a cheap brown shower curtain you'd find at a cheap motel were motorway prostitutes hang out, and whats with the brown 'S' shield. Looks like a cheap plastic frisbee.
And why in gods name is SUPERman lying in a hospital bed. Thats hardly Super. Spidey stopped a bloody train for gods sake. Spidey got angry, spidey headbutted, kicked. And Peter Parkers a nerd but he was way more of a hero than creepy stalker, cry baby Superman was in SR.


And Spider-man also have actual dialouge! Superman barely spoke! Whats up with that?! The star of the movie had about the same amount of lines as Jimmy Olsen. lame.

[DarkSuperman]

I also saw Spiderman 3 times.
Yes, it wasn't that it was perfect, but I loved seeing the book come to life on the screen. Seeing J Jonah. They made a great Spiderman outfit. Guess what, no one cared that the red and blue colors were vibrant, its Spiderman!!
With Superman his suit should also have been brighter. Before it came out (SR) I didn't actually mind HIS suit until I watched the movie and was like "Uch, his cape is like a cheap brown shower curtain you'd find at a cheap motel were motorway prostitutes hang out, and whats with the brown 'S' shield. Looks like a cheap plastic frisbee.
And why in gods name is SUPERman lying in a hospital bed. Thats hardly Super. Spidey stopped a bloody train for gods sake. Spidey got angry, spidey headbutted, kicked. And Peter Parkers a nerd but he was way more of a hero than creepy stalker, cry baby Superman was in SR.

Exactly, I wasn't exactly thrilled about the costume when they released that picture, in fact you could say I was "Underwhelmed" at the sight of it. However, I didnt judge the film until I saw it for myself. Watching Superman returns didnt make me feel the magic and awe a Superhero film should. Spidey "kept it real" baby and for his reward got a fat cheque, a possibly 6 movie deal, multiple award winning video games, and popular action figures. In short...he got paid.

Maybe in another 20+ Years when we get another restart Superman will get a director who will completely understand him likewise and keep it real. Instead of being REAL Lame. :supes: