Eddie brock's character arc

[Odin's Lapdog]

Now I thought when this show came out they were going to show how eddie and peter were tight and slowly show the demise of their relationship into hatred.

However, apart from leaving connors and ignoring gwen abit, brock's got nothing to be angry about.

We've also seen very little of him considering the whole season is geared towards him becoming venom at the end of it. There is more time spent on pretty much every other character, even flash thompson.

I don't even think parker has spoken to eddie since the connors incident.

I think spectacular may be making a mistake with this relationship, especially since Tas did a real good job of making eddie hate spiderman right from early on in the show till pretty much venom appeared. In fact the whole way it handled the symbiote was a genius and they are continually following up on it in the films and in this medium.

in short, I feel venom is going to be kinda empty with no real reason for going after spidey/parker from eddie's side.

[Gotham]

Well, we still have four episodes to see his hatred for Peter Parker grow. Or maybe even in this upcoming episode. I have faith that they'll handle the story line well.

[aragen]

Remember, the symbiote will change Peter's personality. I'm guessing symbiote Peter will do something to Gwen and maybe getting his job as an intern and humiliating Eddie. It's a thought.

[Webhead2006]

Yea they still have episode 9, 10 symboite start, 11, before we are do to be getting venom in episode 12 or 13. So lots of time to see their friendship dissolve some more. One thing i am hoping for the symboite is they have all the comics powers and all that and dont cheap out like movies did and not having all its powers/weaknesses.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Or, here's the novel idea.

You could wait and see how it turns out before making a thread like this complaining about how it will turn out.

Why, my idea is actually, GASP, logical. Wait and see and then complain? Why, if only more people would do this.

Got it? Comprende? Dost thou fathom?

[Spider-ManHero12]

We still have a good amount of episodes left and I'm sure Brock will start to change more in those episodes. Something between Peter and brock will happen. I just have a gut feeling.

[Venom.X]

How is he complaining? This is speculation. Speculation worth discussing. By your logic, we shouldn't even have these episode threads made until after the episodes themselves aire.

I've been worried about this too. If Eddie does develop a reason to hate Peter/Spider-Man, it'll feel rushed, at this point. But anythings better than just saying "the symbiote makes Eddie evil. That's why Venom wants to kill Spider-Man."

[Visionary]

But anythings better than just saying "the symbiote makes Eddie evil.

Or maybe we're all finding out just how mediocre the character of Brock/Venom truly are. Truth is, there is no justification why Brock should want to murder Peter/Spidey in the funny books. Everyone is looking for the cartoons and movies to make up for what isn't in the comics. Now that's just sad and freakin' pathetic.

[Spiderine]

Or, here's the novel idea.

You could wait and see how it turns out before making a thread like this complaining about how it will turn out.

Why, my idea is actually, GASP, logical. Wait and see and then complain? Why, if only more people would do this.

Got it? Comprende? Dost thou fathom?
Lol. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I guess he wants to see Eddie get pissed in every episode till Venom shows up.

[Venom.X]

Or maybe we're all finding out just how mediocre the character of Brock/Venom truly are. Truth is, there is no justification why Brock should want to murder Peter/Spidey in the funny books. Everyone is looking for the cartoons and movies to make up for what isn't in the comics. Now that's just sad and freakin' pathetic.

Well bully for you. That's why the cartoon is taking newer steps for this Venom. How is that sad and pathetic that we would want a radically new spin on Venom?

I'm guessing you didn't like the new additions Superman: TAS added? The background behind Kal-El? Brainiac and Lex Luthor new/modern revisions? Fact is, every villain, even the classics that didn't need improvements, are going to get new takes on them. You could say that there was nothing wrong with Doc Ock's comic origins, but the new cartoon still improved on that. So why wouldn't we want to find better reasons for Venom's actions in the shows and movies that weren't there in the comics? I for one didn't think 616 Brock's reasons for hating Spider-Man were bad. Flawed, yes.

[Spiderine]

We still have a good amount of episodes left and I'm sure Brock will start to change more in those episodes. Something between Peter and brock will happen. I just have a gut feeling.
Of course there will. Everyone should just be patient and see how it plays out. Then praise it or criticize it.

[Arcturus]

Or maybe we're all finding out just how mediocre the character of Brock/Venom truly are. Truth is, there is no justification why Brock should want to murder Peter/Spidey in the funny books. Everyone is looking for the cartoons and movies to make up for what isn't in the comics. Now that's just sad and freakin' pathetic.

Or maybe you're are so closed minded that not even the light can can escape the swirling, empty void. Granted, you don't like Venom and that is perfectly fine. I'm not holding that against you, but to simply say what you just said, and then pass it off as "fact" is unacceptable. Nobody is looking in the movies and cartoons for what isn't in the comics, that is a ridiculous notion.

The justification is clear as day. In 616, Eddie Blames Spider-Man for ruining his career, in turn ruining his own life. Yes, it may be contrived, and yes it's delusional but I don't think Eddie Brock is the most sanest person kicking around. He is a psychopathic man, this has been established. At it's core, it works. It's the overexposure which ruined 616 Venom, but there have been a few good stories. Most recently, "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock" which deals mainly with Eddie Brock.

In Ultimate Spider-Man Eddie Brock is a slimey worm whom only looks out for himself, oh sure he may seem like a nice guy at first, but he certainlly did feel betrayed by Peter when he stole the "suit", and to top it off, destroy the last sample of the "suit". It was all that was left of their fathers legacy, he had every right to be pissed off, but was he truly ready for the consequences after letting the suit overwhelm him? Perhaps not, but he wanted Peter Parker dead. And guess what, Ultimate Venom was a sucess, plus he wasn't overused. And thats the way it should be.

The Spider-Man TAS of the 90's took the 616 Venom, and completely turned it around. It took elements from 616 and they put there own spin on him. And it worked great! As for SM3, it was a mixture of both 616 & Ultimate which truly worked wonderful. Yeah, there are people that don't like how it was handled, but I thought it was wonderful. I am a Venom fan, I have been fan of Venom for years and for many more years to come. Is Venom flawed? Absolutely! But is he so flawed that he cannot operate anymore? Nope, given good writers and imagination, the character can and does work.


I've explained why I'm fan of Venom. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14322342&postcount=4)

I've given reason why I liked Venom from Spider-Man 3. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14424859&postcount=1001)

And I've given an observation regarding Eddie Brock in the Spectacular Spider-Man series. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14729871&postcount=413)

Because people have asked me why I'm such a big fan of Venom, i've posted my reasons in the above links.

[Anwar]

I still think they should've made Lance Bannon Venom in 616, at least we wouldn't have been put through Venom turning out to be a wholly new character.

The TAS and movie versions are closer to Bannon anyways.

[Arcturus]

I still think they should've made Lance Bannon Venom in 616, at least we wouldn't have been put through Venom turning out to be a wholly new character.

The TAS and movie versions are closer to Bannon anyways.

Oh sure, Bannon could've worked too, but we'll never know. And remember, Venom was originally going to be a woman seeking revenge on Spider-Man because her husband was killed during a chaotic event where Spider-Man was involved. The woman was pregnant at the time, and labor was induced upon seeing her husband get crushed. They also wanted the symbiote to go from host to host, but none of this saw light. Except for the last part, the symbiote did change hosts from time to time.

[Sarcastic Fan]

To this day, I will always think the pregnant woman would have been the best way to go. I hope it eventually happens in the comics.

[Anwar]

For a totally new char, go with the Pregnant woman.

For an Anti-Spidey AND an Anti-Peter, it should've been Bannon. It would've made Venom's "evil twin" cliche complete.

[Spider-ManHero12]

As I said once before, it would be cool to see the original woman Venom idea in a "What if?" story.

[Valorman]

eddies going to have four episodes in a row of development. it'll be good.

[Anwar]

Three episodes of Eddie, one of Venom.

And that's best case scenario since the first episode is supposed to be about Chameleon impersonating Spidey and him teaming with Black Cat.

[Ratcrawler]

Wasn't it mentioned that there was something a little "off" about sPectacular Eddie in the first place? I don't remember the source, but there's a reason he went after Lizard and Electro.

[Valorman]

I'm sure were going to get some soap-drama involving eddie though. and venom/eddie was something i counted as "development", thus, four, but thats just based on how you look at it. even when t doesint center on eddie, remember, the arcs are built to be like little movies, no way they wont foreshadow or allude to relationship development from the get go between eddie and peter in an arc that heavily centers on the two.

[Anwar]

Well, check out his face when Harry ignored Gwen in "Catalysts", almost as angry as he was at Peter for "lying" to them about not having a date.

He's either got anger issues, or thinks of Gwen as more than just a little sister type.

[Spider-ManHero12]

eddies going to have four episodes in a row of development. it'll be good. Indeed, I mean, he's had alot of development so far, but the four episodes with Brock really is most likely going to have him change something big will most likely erupt inside Brock, making him go nuts or something.

[Valorman]

Wasn't it mentioned that there was something a little "off" about sPectacular Eddie in the first place? I don't remember the source, but there's a reason he went after Lizard and Electro.

i think someone mentioned that he has an anger issue or sucisidal tendencies, something in that vein. i remember someone describing eddie as being a cool guy on the outside, but he's someone hiding darker secrets about his mental health on the inside. i think it was a voice actor interview with Benjamin Diskin...

[Ratcrawler]

Musta been that.

[ReggieWhiteJr]

i think someone mentioned that he has an anger issue or sucisidal tendencies, something in that vein. i remember someone describing eddie as being a cool guy on the outside, but he's someone hiding darker secrets about his mental health on the inside. i think it was a voice actor interview with Benjamin Diskin...

I think I heard something like this when watching an interview with the crew.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Yea they still have episode 9, 10 symboite start, 11, before we are do to be getting venom in episode 12 or 13. So lots of time to see their friendship dissolve some more. One thing i am hoping for the symboite is they have all the comics powers and all that and dont cheap out like movies did and not having all its powers/weaknesses.
the thing is pretty much every single character so far has had a decent amount of screen time dedicated to their maturing.

eddie, apparently spidey's deadliest foe has had considerably less than norman, tombstone and ock. Heck, even less than MJ, Gwen, harry, flash, liz etc...

[Odin's Lapdog]

Or, here's the novel idea.

You could wait and see how it turns out before making a thread like this complaining about how it will turn out.

Why, my idea is actually, GASP, logical. Wait and see and then complain? Why, if only more people would do this.

Got it? Comprende? Dost thou fathom?

I already feel the pacing of the character is off, I'm wondering exactly what purpose he's had in the series up till this point making arguments for the fact he's the most underdeveloped speaking character on the show, yet he's supposed to be spidey's deadliest enemy.

in comparison to tas, he's striking out and is a spare wheel on the show.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Or maybe we're all finding out just how mediocre the character of Brock/Venom truly are. Truth is, there is no justification why Brock should want to murder Peter/Spidey in the funny books. Everyone is looking for the cartoons and movies to make up for what isn't in the comics. Now that's just sad and freakin' pathetic.

I agree with you in thinking that venom (on eddie's side has some weak motivation).

The symbiote's rejection has good motivation on the alien side.

On the human side, it was fairly weak in the comics but here they introduced the character early so we could gradually see the demise of their relationship. There's nothing gradual about it though, they haven't even spoken for like 4/5 eps and he hasn't got a position to lose as yet. It makes me feel as if his motivations are going to come in vain again

I'm just wondering why they wouldn't upgrade the reason.

I also find it weird they are focussing on eddie's hate for peter instead of spiderman. i've always felt the symbiote hated peter's rejection and eddie hated spiderman ruining his work which is why their joint hatred worked well in a symbiotic relationship rather than just targeting one aspect of the superhero.

meh, in short, I hope eddie's plot doesn't feel rushed and crammed into a few eps when it could have been nicely spread out evenly, like the other characters...

[Joker]

I already like they way they're handling Brock in this.

There's an actual connection between him and Peter. So, the basis of his hatred for Peter should be based on something concrete, instead of the delusional, lame BS in the comic books.

[Odin's Lapdog]

but his hatred should be of spiderman, not peter. This should then reflect on the fact that spiderman IS peter parker which adds to it.

actually when written like that, it's very similar to harry's stance from the films. the thing is it works though...

[Arcturus]

I already like they way they're handling Brock in this.

There's an actual connection between him and Peter. So, the basis of his hatred for Peter should be based on something concrete, instead of the delusional, lame BS in the comic books.

I agree, Joker. I feel this is a refreshing take on Eddie Brock and I think it will work. We've got quite a few episodes to go, and I'm certain more of Eddie Brocks motivation will unfold. Only time will tell, truly. The writers of the show have been very consistent with their characters.

[Webhead2006]

well we have a few episodes left before venom shows up so peter and eddie's hatred can easily grow in the next few episodes and possible him hating spidey.

[Spiderine]

well we have a few episodes left before venom shows up so peter and eddie's hatred can easily grow in the next few episodes and possible him hating spidey.
Exactly.

[Webhead2006]

yea we got ep 9 tomorrow, then episode 10, and 11 for symboite spidey that we know for sure he has the symboite. Then that left half of episode 12 and then all of ep 13 for a full blown eddie truly hating peter and spiderman. I could see symboite spidey doing something to brock which causes him to not like spidey any more and then as symboite peter causes more trouble to there relationship and bam......

[Syncos]

I agree with you in thinking that venom (on eddie's side has some weak motivation).

The symbiote's rejection has good motivation on the alien side.

On the human side, it was fairly weak in the comics but here they introduced the character early so we could gradually see the demise of their relationship. There's nothing gradual about it though, they haven't even spoken for like 4/5 eps and he hasn't got a position to lose as yet. It makes me feel as if his motivations are going to come in vain again



That's part of the thing about Brock, though.
He wanted soo desperately to be someone. He wants to matter.

That being said. It allows the symbiote to completely bond. The symbiote hated Peter for removing it, not allowing it to bond. It's a good reason for hatred.

Even if Brocks motivations aren't the best for hating peter. The Symbiote -does- and we've been shown that the Alien can alter personality. Being fully bonded with the Alien, it's safe to reason that Brock is feeling the Symbiote's hate, more than his own.

[AIRWOLF]

well we have a few episodes left before venom shows up so peter and eddie's hatred can easily grow in the next few episodes and possible him hating spidey.

For that matter, Eddie should be in the upcoming episode and this time there should be some conversation between him and Peter, his lack of dialogue is making me nervous about how they'll spin his story.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Well in that case it makes the symbiote more redundant, it'd be better off bonding the jonah or an actual spidey villain.

Besides, in this universe, I think eddie is/was someone around his peers. Quarterback football captain, academic, good friend with younger members, respected lab partner of connors...

not much more you could ask for just getting into uni

[Odin's Lapdog]

For that matter, Eddie should be in the upcoming episode and this time there should be some conversation between him and Peter, his lack of dialogue is making me nervous about how they'll spin his story.
That's exactly how i feel, they have a lack of dialogue and he's not really had anything to do yet


I would have rather him come back home during the holidays and be introduced and get the majority of interaction until venom turned up. His arc has been pants in a show that has character like liz allen featured more in it, WTF...

[Sarcastic Fan]

That's exactly how i feel, they have a lack of dialogue and he's not really had anything to do yet


I would have rather him come back home during the holidays and be introduced and get the majority of interaction until venom turned up. His arc has been pants in a show that has character like liz allen featured more in it, WTF...

Eddie's arc doesn't really start until episode ten, anyway.

This isn't exactly rocket science.

[vinny2]

Eddie's arc doesn't really start until episode ten, anyway.

This isn't exactly rocket science.

Even I, someone who doesn't have connections, figured that they weren't done with Eddie. Eddie's arc, the symbiote arc, hasn't happened. There is still plenty of episodes for Symbiote Spidey/Peter to do something that will push Eddie over the edge.

EDIT: Fixed the post. It wasn't saying what it was supposed to say. Had other implications that were unexpected.

[Spider-ManHero12]

yea we got ep 9 tomorrow, then episode 10, and 11 for symboite spidey that we know for sure he has the symboite. Then that left half of episode 12 and then all of ep 13 for a full blown eddie truly hating peter and spiderman. I could see symboite spidey doing something to brock which causes him to not like spidey any more and then as symboite peter causes more trouble to there relationship and bam...... Indeed, and as I have said, those upcoming episodes will really show things heat up in Brock's mind.

[Venom 1988]

someone without connection, figured Greg Weisman wasn't done. Eddie's arc,

Even I, someone who doesn't have connections, figured that they weren't done with Eddie. Eddie's arc, the symbiote arc, hasn't happened. There is still plenty of episodes for Symbiote Spidey/Peter to do something that will push Eddie over the edge.

Sarcastic Fan is a friend of Greg Weisman

[Spider-ManHero12]

Sarcastic Fan is a friend of Greg Weisman Yeah, and we have proof that he is. :up:

[Anwar]

If TAS could pull off Brock hating Spidey in like 2 stories, I don't see why SSM can't do a spectacular job with around 3. Especially since Brock will have a bigger part in this arc than he did in the TAS version of why he began to hate Spidey.

Of course, in this version it's Peter he hates not Spider-Man.

[Venomfan]

Brock/Venom is one character that i'm sure they won't do as well as TAS, that is still the best version of the character, much better then the movies and comics

[Spiderine]

I think it's nice to take a different approach to Eddie for a change. And until we actually see this arc play out I don't see how we can compare it to TAS version. It's possible we could feel more for his hatred here than the other version.

[Venomfan]

I think it's nice to take a different approach to Eddie for a change. And until we actually see this arc play out I don't see how we can compare it to TAS version. It's possible we could feel more for his hatred here than the other version.
no we can't fully judge yet, but what we've seen so far isn't near as good as what they had going for Brock in TAS by this point

[Spider-ManHero12]

If TAS could pull off Brock hating Spidey in like 2 stories, I don't see why SSM can't do a spectacular job with around 3. Especially since Brock will have a bigger part in this arc than he did in the TAS version of why he began to hate Spidey.

Of course, in this version it's Peter he hates not Spider-Man. Exactly, and so far, they have done an amazing job with Brock so far, so that's most likely going to lead to great stories with Venom.

[Spiderine]

no we can't fully judge yet, but what we've seen so far isn't near as good as what they had going for Brock in TAS by this point
Yes, but I think thats the point. Although we have been introduced to Brock we have no idea what sort twist they have in store for his downward spiral. All we currently know is that he has been like a big brother figure to Peter and we have been seeing him sporadically since. It makes it some what intriguing to Brock's conversion to Venom. In the other version, it was very predictable for his decent into loathing Spiderman.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Edit

[DACrowe]

It's a great arc (better than the movie or the superb TAS version, not to mention the crappy one in the comics). But I feel they have left it ignored too long now. He has only been in one of the last three episodes and had no lines in it.

He needs more time to develop.

[vinny2]

Yeah, and we have proof that he is. :up:

I actually have more proof than you, but I promised not to speak of that again. (I have a similar situation with Stephen King, but I've already said too much.)

[Spider-ManHero12]

I actually have more proof than you, but I promised not to speak of that again. (I have a similar situation with Stephen King, but I've already said too much.) If you don't mind me asking, why did you promise not to speak of it again? :yay:

[vinny2]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you promise not to speak of it again? :yay:

It involves me, Sarcastic Fan, Wikipedia, and a certain crew member of the show. That's all I can say or else Sarcastic Fan will hit me with words.

[Spider-ManHero12]

It involves me, Sarcastic Fan, Wikipedia, and a certain crew member of the show. That's all I can say or else Sarcastic Fan will hit me with words. Okay. :yay:

[vinny2]

King, however, I can talk about because he's not here. My English teacher has a friend who is friends with Stephen King. When J.D. came into class and got a text message from Stephen, my friend Tony pleaded with J.D. to text him back to comment on how the Red Sox had played last night. (FYI, King is a Red Sox fan and Tony is a Yankees fan. The Red Sox had lost to the Yankees the night before.) Even though I lean toward the Sox more than the Yankees, I thought it was funny and decided to join in on Tony's pleadings. Eventually, J.D. agreed to send the text message as long as he specifically pointed out it was two students in the class who posed the question. Apparently, Stephen didn't appreciate the crack and now we're on his list.

[Spider-ManHero12]

King, however, I can talk about because he's not here. My English teacher has a friend who is friends with Stephen King. When J.D. came into class and got a text message from Stephen, my friend Tony pleaded with J.D. to text him back to comment on how the Red Sox had played last night. (FYI, King is a Red Sox fan and Tony is a Yankees fan. The Red Sox had lost to the Yankees the night before.) Even though I lean toward the Sox more than the Yankees, I thought it was funny and decided to join in on Tony's pleadings. Eventually, J.D. agreed to send the text message as long as he specifically pointed out it was two students in the class who posed the question. Apparently, Stephen didn't appreciate the crack and now we're on his list. Wow, that's very interesting, vinny2. :up:

Anyway, I really do think Brock will be in tommorow's episode. I mean, it just seems so likely.

[vinny2]

Wow, that's very interesting, vinny2. :up:

Anyway, I really do think Brock will be in tommorow's episode. I mean, it just seems so likely.

To get back on topic, I agree that Eddie's missed a couple of episodes. If Peter gets the symbiote at the beginning of "Persona", then Eddie probably won't be in this episode. However, it's far more likely that Spidey will don the black suit near the end of "The Uncertainty Principle", so I expect to see Eddie as well.

[Ratcrawler]

I pretty much expect Peter's Symbiote-influence to be the straw that broke Eddie's back.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3103/1dur5.png

[Venomfan]

i'm almost expecting him to go with the emo look in the show, they keep taking some of the worst parts of the movies into the show for some reason

[russttrombone]

I pretty much expect Peter's Symbiote-influence to be the straw that broke Eddie's back.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3103/1dur5.png

ROFL

[Spider-ManHero12]

I pretty much expect Peter's Symbiote-influence to be the straw that broke Eddie's back.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3103/1dur5.png LOL!

[Ratcrawler]

Possibly my best work since Electro's crotch tube...

[Spider-ManHero12]

Possibly my best work since Electro's crotch tube... Yeah, I remember that, LOL!

[Webhead2006]

lol funny eddie/emo peter.

[Anwar]

Huh, you don't suppose they'll end up giving post-Venom Eddie a mullet like in the comics do you?

Either that or go for the bald with goatee look from Ultimate...

[Webhead2006]

he wasnt bald and a goatee, he had short hair like a buzz cut.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Huh, you don't suppose they'll end up giving post-Venom Eddie a mullet like in the comics do you?

Either that or go for the bald with goatee look from Ultimate... I doubt it, I mean, they did happen in the 90's of course, so even if they were to do it, I doubt it would happen anytime soon.

[Web-Head]

Possibly my best work since Electro's crotch tube...
And people actually thought it was real.:hehe:

[Webzpinner]

Or maybe we're all finding out just how mediocre the character of Brock/Venom truly are. Truth is, there is no justification why Brock should want to murder Peter/Spidey in the funny books. Everyone is looking for the cartoons and movies to make up for what isn't in the comics. Now that's just sad and freakin' pathetic.

As a fan of Venom since 1989ish, I can honestly say that the only reason Venom is famous is his look. Eddie Brock's history is rather pathetic.

Or maybe you're are so closed minded that not even the light can can escape the swirling, empty void. Granted, you don't like Venom and that is perfectly fine. I'm not holding that against you, but to simply say what you just said, and then pass it off as "fact" is unacceptable. Nobody is looking in the movies and cartoons for what isn't in the comics, that is a ridiculous notion.

Oh, even the movie producers and the makers of the original 90's cartoon thought Venom's origin in the comics needed a severe overhaul. Lots of people think Venom needs a major makeover. Even Marvel has tried to buff Venom's origin with cancer, his ex-wife's suicide, a dysfunctional father/son relationship, etc. Hasn't worked.

The justification is clear as day. In 616, Eddie Blames Spider-Man for ruining his career, in turn ruining his own life. Yes, it may be contrived, and yes it's delusional but I don't think Eddie Brock is the most sanest person kicking around. He is a psychopathic man, this has been established. At it's core, it works. It's the overexposure which ruined 616 Venom, but there have been a few good stories. Most recently, "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock" which deals mainly with Eddie Brock.

Actually, it doesn't work, because such rages do not last that long, plus, it's Eddie's own fault he was an idiot, and deserved what he got. Blaming Spidey just makes him that much more pathetic. At least in the movie, there was a personal angle which helped out Brock's character tremendously, but still, at his core, he's just a whiney SOB. I lost a job due to an idiot of a boss, but I have no reason to put on spandex and hunt him down for it.

In Ultimate Spider-Man Eddie Brock is a slimey worm whom only looks out for himself, oh sure he may seem like a nice guy at first, but he certainlly did feel betrayed by Peter when he stole the "suit", and to top it off, destroy the last sample of the "suit". It was all that was left of their fathers legacy, he had every right to be pissed off, but was he truly ready for the consequences after letting the suit overwhelm him? Perhaps not, but he wanted Peter Parker dead. And guess what, Ultimate Venom was a sucess, plus he wasn't overused. And thats the way it should be.

Ultimate was a horrible Brock. The attempted date-rape of Gwen, the rage towards Parker after he finds out Parker is Spider-man? C'mon, he's gotta know Spidey's adventures from the papers, if Peter says it's bad, it probably is... And Venom's attack of Peter made no sense. They tried to fix it in the Ultimate Spidey game, but again, it was a weak performance at best.

The Spider-Man TAS of the 90's took the 616 Venom, and completely turned it around. It took elements from 616 and they put there own spin on him. And it worked great! As for SM3, it was a mixture of both 616 & Ultimate which truly worked wonderful. Yeah, there are people that don't like how it was handled, but I thought it was wonderful. I am a Venom fan, I have been fan of Venom for years and for many more years to come. Is Venom flawed? Absolutely! But is he so flawed that he cannot operate anymore? Nope, given good writers and imagination, the character can and does work.


I've explained why I'm fan of Venom. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14322342&postcount=4)

I've given reason why I liked Venom from Spider-Man 3. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14424859&postcount=1001)

And I've given an observation regarding Eddie Brock in the Spectacular Spider-Man series. (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=14729871&postcount=413)

Because people have asked me why I'm such a big fan of Venom, i've posted my reasons in the above links.

Musta been that.

Agreed that Venom can work. The "perfect" Venom would be a combo between Spidey 3 and Spectacular cartoon. Eddie Brock knowing Pete, having a love triangle with Gwen, Gwen getting murdered, Brock finding out that Pete was "responsible" as Spider-Man, a persona Pete uses to make all his money as a "scam", and Brock getting the suit and going crazy ape over Spidey.

That would work beautifully. No stupid cancer, no "Last Temptation of Eddie" (worse comic in AGES), Just a simple, solid origin.

[Ratcrawler]

And people actually thought it was real.:hehe:

Not the first time that's happened. Sadly, Rhino's Pee-horn went largely unnoticed...
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3848/1agb8.png

[Arcturus]

You'll have to forgive me Webzpinner, I never been a fan of dissecting posts, but I'll give it a shot.


As a fan of Venom since 1989ish, I can honestly say that the only reason Venom is famous is his look. Eddie Brock's history is rather pathetic.

Ah, it's nice to see other Venom fans! There aren't very many around here. But I can assure you, I'm not a fan because Venom looks "cool".

Oh, even the movie producers and the makers of the original 90's cartoon thought Venom's origin in the comics needed a severe overhaul. Lots of people think Venom needs a major makeover. Even Marvel has tried to buff Venom's origin with cancer, his ex-wife's suicide, a dysfunctional father/son relationship, etc. Hasn't worked.

Oh, I know all about this. I've stated before I don't like the Secret Wars origin, it's way too over the top and to date I have enjoyed the more recent origins of Venom. I have to confess, I haven't really been keeping up with 616 Spider-Man comics for a few years. I never did really like the direction they were taking, such as Norman getting Gwen pregnant, Totem and the Other plot. And recently, this Brand/One More day stuff. But I am aware of the retcon of Venoms motives, having cancer and I certainlly know about the lethal protector series making reference to a failed father/son relationship. I have said before that 616 Brock's motives are weak. I just wish that Brock & Parker had prior interactions with one another, beforehand. Various writers have made note of this, Spider-Man TAS, Ultimate Spider-Man, SM3, SSM all so far have made them have a prior connection to one another. Instead of Eddie Brock appearing out of nowhere and dumping his anger on Spider-Man/Parker.

Actually, it doesn't work, because such rages do not last that long, plus, it's Eddie's own fault he was an idiot, and deserved what he got. Blaming Spidey just makes him that much more pathetic. At least in the movie, there was a personal angle which helped out Brock's character tremendously, but still, at his core, he's just a whiney SOB. I lost a job due to an idiot of a boss, but I have no reason to put on spandex and hunt him down for it.

In a way it does and doesn't work, just hear me out. I think the delusional rage could work, if they had limited to from the first appearance of Venom to the Sand and the Fury. However, in the long run, it does not work. And thus the overexposure of Venom started, then they changed him from a deadly villain to an anti-hero, then back to a villain and then a cancer patient and so fourth. Personally, I think they should have stopped at the Sand and the Fury. And have Brock separate from the symbiote and that would've been the end of that. Unless they wanted to go with their original plan of having the vengeful woman seeking revenge for the death of her husband, or even have the symbiote bond with someone else.



Ultimate was a horrible Brock. The attempted date-rape of Gwen, the rage towards Parker after he finds out Parker is Spider-man? C'mon, he's gotta know Spidey's adventures from the papers, if Peter says it's bad, it probably is... And Venom's attack of Peter made no sense. They tried to fix it in the Ultimate Spidey game, but again, it was a weak performance at best.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Upon hearing Venom was going to get the Ultimate treatment, it brought me back into reading comic-books once again. The Ultimate Venom story was decent, it was certainlly better then a lot of the 616 plot lines, thats for sure. A real connection is established between Brock and Parker, both of their fathers were friends who were working on the "suit". And both died because of the suit. Even Parker and Brock were childhood friends, separated by time. And this origin is better then the secret wars origin, there is no doubting that. Although I prefer my symbiotes to be extraterrestrial, I can live with it. IMO, I felt that Eddie Brock (Ultimate) was the opposite of Parker. Where Parker has good morals, Brock is a bitter and slimy jerk, and when he showed his true colors, it certainlly made this Eddie Brock a lot more darker. Bendis did a wonderful job of showing how ugly Brock jr truly was. Even if Parkers intentions were good, to prevent evil people getting there hands on the suit, the only thing left of their fathers legacy. Eddie was betrayed by his friend, he had good reason to be mad. Instead of being a loser who blames everyone but himself like 616 Brock, there is a concrete reason to be mad at Peter. If Parker never decided to arrogantly intervene with trying to take back his fathers legacy, this whole thing could've been avoided! And when Brock finally turned into Venom, he took out this rage on Peter Parker. This was a refreshing take on Eddie Brock/Venom and I think it is one of my favorite treatments of Venom in awhile, plus there was no overexposure of the character! Writers have recognized the success of Ultimate Venom, as they have incorporated elements of Ultimate Eddie Brock/Venom into Spider-Man 3 and Spectacular Spider-Man. Because it works better then 616. And the SM3/Spectacular surpasses Ultimate Spider-Man.

Agreed that Venom can work. The "perfect" Venom would be a combo between Spidey 3 and Spectacular cartoon. Eddie Brock knowing Pete, having a love triangle with Gwen, Gwen getting murdered, Brock finding out that Pete was "responsible" as Spider-Man, a persona Pete uses to make all his money as a "scam", and Brock getting the suit and going crazy ape over Spidey.

That would work beautifully. No stupid cancer, no "Last Temptation of Eddie" (worse comic in AGES), Just a simple, solid origin.

Well said! I really love how Venom was handled in Spider-Man 3. And I really like how they're handling Eddie Brock in the Spectacular Spider-Man. I truly cannot wait to see Venom make his appearance, this arc is the one I'm looking forward too the most in Spectacular Spider-Man. But I do disagree about the "Last Temptation of Eddie Brock" being the worst comic in ages. It's a nice little story focusing only on Brock. And it's a step in the right direction, even the Venom haters can admit this. But opinions are opinions, and by no means do I mean any disrespect. So on the many points we've discussed, it's probarbly best that we agree to disagree. I suppose I'm just too much of a Venom fan, I have been for many years.

[Joker]

I pretty much expect Peter's Symbiote-influence to be the straw that broke Eddie's back.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3103/1dur5.png

LMFAO!

I nearly spat my tea out with laughter when I saw this :hehe:

As a fan of Venom since 1989ish, I can honestly say that the only reason Venom is famous is his look. Eddie Brock's history is rather pathetic.

Wow, another honest Venom fan. You guys are really impressing me :up:

[AIRWOLF]

As a fan of Venom since 1989ish, I can honestly say that the only reason Venom is famous is his look. Eddie Brock's history is rather pathetic.



Oh, even the movie producers and the makers of the original 90's cartoon thought Venom's origin in the comics needed a severe overhaul. Lots of people think Venom needs a major makeover. Even Marvel has tried to buff Venom's origin with cancer, his ex-wife's suicide, a dysfunctional father/son relationship, etc. Hasn't worked.



Ultimate was a horrible Brock. The attempted date-rape of Gwen, the rage towards Parker after he finds out Parker is Spider-man? C'mon, he's gotta know Spidey's adventures from the papers, if Peter says it's bad, it probably is... And Venom's attack of Peter made no sense. They tried to fix it in the Ultimate Spidey game, but again, it was a weak performance at best.


Agreed that Venom can work. The "perfect" Venom would be a combo between Spidey 3 and Spectacular cartoon. Eddie Brock knowing Pete, having a love triangle with Gwen, Gwen getting murdered, Brock finding out that Pete was "responsible" as Spider-Man, a persona Pete uses to make all his money as a "scam", and Brock getting the suit and going crazy ape over Spidey.

That would work beautifully. No stupid cancer, no "Last Temptation of Eddie" (worse comic in AGES), Just a simple, solid origin.


You're right about Venom being famous for his looks, especially among kids. But I see his pathetic-ness as more of a human fault than just some lame attempt to create a character's arc, which is also true in a way. He does lacks substantial amounts of substance for movie adaption, that's true. Not only does he needs serious overhaul in cartoons or movies, but in comics as well. I hope the Brand New Day has it better.

Completely agree about Spectacular being the best Eddie yet, beside the movie one.

[Venom.X]

In a perfect, hypothetical world, Lance Bannon would have been Venom. Or maybe Venom would have been some vengeful woman. And Marvel still would have overused and destroyed Venom.



Fact is, Venom's origins and Eddie's motivations is not what ruined Venom. Many classic villains started off with bad origins and weak reasonings, but what was done with the villains in further stories is what made them legendary.



Dr. Doom, for instance, has a very corny background and reason for hating Reed. Come to think of it, isn't Doom's hatred for Reed just as irrational as Eddie hating Spider-Man in the comics? Doom's experiment bows up in his face due to his own mistake, and he puts that blame on Reed Richards. His origin is convoluted (involving devils and sorcery and family betrayal) and his hatred for Reed is laughable, but what makes Doom badass is that over the years, he was handled well.



Dr. Doom came from a bad origin and became a killer villain.



So I understand when the Venom anti-fans express disdain for Venom. Trust me, I do. I just hate it when people say "Venom sucks because his origins and motivations are lame". No, that is not what made Venom bad. A character is only as good as how the writers make him. No one cared that Venom's motivations were 'weak' during the late 80s-early 90s, because the stories were good. What made Venom bad was what writers established later & did to him, and how Marvel decided to use him. If Venom had retained his classic style, he would be better perceived now.

Had to repost that. I'm not saying Venom's history wasn't bad, or his motivations weren't good (though I and Airwolf both agree that while you can say Eddie hating someone for his own problems is dumb, it IS real). What I'm asm saying is this:

People need to get past that.

Venom could have had the stupidest origins in history, and if his writig and stories had stayed good for many, many years, people would love him.

Same with the people saying "Venom shoulda been that pregnant chick/the symbiote should have left Eddie like planned"...we still don't know how well liked Venom would have been among the fans, or how Marvel would have handled the character. Venom in any form could have still sucked. That's a hypothetical thought, there's no way to know if the road not taken almost twenty years ago would have been better or worse.

Personally, the how "Spider-Man killed my husband and made me miscarriage" angle the female Venom would have been driven by is just as good or just as bad as Eddie blaming Spider-Man on his ruined career and lost of everything. Both characters would have been last minute introductions, with neither character having any history with Spider-Man. And David Michelinie said madness would have kept female's Venom's hatred going; same with Eddie.

I also find it funny how people say that it would have been better if Michelinie did kill off Brock and kept the symbiote alive for later stories like he had wanted (I agree, ONLY because of what was in store for Venom later on by keeping him alive...Marvel deconstruction of his character). It's funny because these are the same people who don't like Gargan/Venom...we have a new Venom, and Brock is on death's door, and you guys aren't happy. So would you really had been happy with Brock's death and a new Venom back in the early 90s like planned?

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.

[AIRWOLF]

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.


You got a valid point there.

[Joker]

Anyway, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking "Venom's origins in the comics were perfect", just that "a bad origin does not automatically mean the character is bad." Bad writing and bad handling, years & years of this, is what made Venom bad.

Yes, but remember that the origin was the entire foundation for his hatred for Spidey. So, the fact is was based on delusional BS didn't help.

The best kind of personal conflicts between characters are those between characters who have a real connection, and a real basis for a feud. That's why I like Brock in this cartoon. He and Peter are connected, so we know their feud will be based on something real.

[Arcturus]

^

Well said.

:up:

[Arcturus]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie. Agreed, though I love the original incranation of Eddie Brock as well. Anyway, this Eddie Brock seems happy on the outside, as I have said, but on the inside there seems to be a volcano and we all know what happens with volcanos, they erupt. so, I think the next time we do see Brock, he won't be like he was when we first saw him in the first episode. Last time we saw him, he seemed calm/happy/angry. Remember the look he gave Peter at the dance? He defenitley looked angry at Peter. He also seems to be fed up with Peter ever since "Natural Selection". Even though they talked in "Marketing Forces", they didn't talk much since then. Now, I think Brock might just go nuts on Peter becuase it seems as though Peter is sort of deviating from Gwen, in Brock's mind atleast. Could this be the cause of Brock's rage? I guess we'll find out real soon.

[AIRWOLF]

Well, to get back on topic. Like I said many times before, this Eddie Brock is really a vast improvement on previous incarnations and it works. His friendship with Peter Parker, the development this character has had is working just fine. Yes, Eddie has been absent for a few episodes, but I'm sure he'll reappear again because he is an important aspect to the whole venom saga anyways. Greg Weisman knows this obviously, I wonder what he's got in store for Eddie.

Yes he is a major upgrade from his comic counterpart. Honestly, I prefer this Eddie over the original, he just have the right stuff and his relationship with Peter is what I especially admire and it is what allows me to feel for the guy. Venom and Spidey fight will be more of an emotional conflict if they follow the natural rhythm of the chain of events.

[Don Yoyo]

He's either got anger issues, or thinks of Gwen as more than just a little sister type.

Well, the way I see it, he thinks of her like a little sister... but as an over-protective brother, the kind who can get violent if someone hurts her, even if the someone didn't want to hurt her (here, Peter, who is simply obnoxious of her feelings toward him and can't see her as someone else than his best friend...). The way he looked at Harry and Peter clearly showed that he really didn't like that attitude from them :o

but his hatred should be of spiderman, not peter. This should then reflect on the fact that spiderman IS peter parker which adds to it.

Well, this show mixes 616, Ultimate, movies and TAS influences for the origin of its characters, so it would not be that surprising that Eddie would get bad feelings toward Peter as his Utimate counterpart. Well, except that the two characters are nothink alike : Ultimate one is a "loser" while the one from the show seems quite the man : gifted in science, sport, got quite the nerve and courage without acting too much like a "hero" (even if I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's got some suicidal tendencies...).

[Odin's Lapdog]

If TAS could pull off Brock hating Spidey in like 2 stories, I don't see why SSM can't do a spectacular job with around 3. Especially since Brock will have a bigger part in this arc than he did in the TAS version of why he began to hate Spidey.

Of course, in this version it's Peter he hates not Spider-Man.
er, they started eddie's hatred for spidey from the very first episode and it was heavily developed until venom showed up...

:o

[Odin's Lapdog]

Ok, eddie wasn't even in the last episode...and spidey's donning the black suit next week, what gives?

Are people seriously happy that eddie's brock current development into venom solely consists of

running out to scoop a story
not replying to gwen's prom request

that's seriously a big joke. In 9 eps, that's all they have so far?

It wouldn't make sense for eddie's hatred to come out of anything the symbiote influenced spidey did because he'd be influenced hatred and not a genuine detest.

That sounds weak...

[Webhead2006]

there is 3 episodes before eddie becomes venom so he is bound to be an important part within the arc and his hatred for peter and spidey can easily grow more.

[Odin's Lapdog]

but it's clear his hatred will be of a symbiote infected parker/spiderman

don't you think it makes the venom character.....hypocritical considering how the symbiote affects him.

the venom character is supposed to be a complete symbiosis of characters with equal hatred of both aspects of peter parker/spiderman making them more deadly as a whole.

if eddie hates parker/spiderman based on actions under the influence of the symbiote, it further dilutes him even more.

it's like Jonah hating masked men and then donning one himself.

[Webhead2006]

well we dont know how things are going to play out so we should just wait and see.

[DACrowe]

I'd agree. While there has been very little Brock since the Rhino episode, which disappoints me, they have three episodes to build him up, which if Harry's arc is any indication it can be a lot. While TAS may have developed him up more to the Symbiote Saga to become Venom, SSM is taking three episodes instead of two to tell the symbiote side of things.

[ReggieWhiteJr]

I'm not worry as to how the will play up Eddie's hate. I just can't wait to see it. In the cast & crews own words, things are going to get "dark" in this last story arc.

[Arcturus]

Well I went to Greg Weisman's website and posted a few questions regarding the whereabouts of Brock. Hopefully, he answers soon.

But as I've said, I really like how Brock has been handled so far. And I can't wait to see further developments.

[Webzpinner]

No word or hints yet of Gwen getting killed, which rather surprises me. I was almost positive Goblin was going to do something that would end with Gwen getting the old "X.x" eyes...

I'm almost certain though, that Brock's final turn to the dark side will be due to Pete's careless adolescent behavior towards Gwen. Brock may not have a lot of lines in the cartoons, but his pissed glances speak volumes. He cares for Gwen tremendously (probably as a little sister) and I'm sure we'll learn the exact nature of their relationship before too long.

If it is Gwen's death that galvanizes Brock's hatred, then I can actually see a perfectly legit reason for the hatred towards both Peter and Spider-Man, and one you add the emotion-magnifying symbiote, Brock will be a serious character... It would basically give Venom the Jackal's motivation.

My only hopes are they don't kill him (which they haven't killed a character yet), and they don't EVER bring about Carnage.

[Venom 1988]

No word or hints yet of Gwen getting killed, which rather surprises me. I was almost positive Goblin was going to do something that would end with Gwen getting the old "X.x" eyes...

I'm almost certain though, that Brock's final turn to the dark side will be due to Pete's careless adolescent behavior towards Gwen. Brock may not have a lot of lines in the cartoons, but his pissed glances speak volumes. He cares for Gwen tremendously (probably as a little sister) and I'm sure we'll learn the exact nature of their relationship before too long.

If it is Gwen's death that galvanizes Brock's hatred, then I can actually see a perfectly legit reason for the hatred towards both Peter and Spider-Man, and one you add the emotion-magnifying symbiote, Brock will be a serious character...

My only hopes are they don't kill him (which they haven't killed a character yet), and they don't EVER bring about Carnage.Im not expecting Gwen to die until the straight to DVDs at least, and that wont be until after the 5th season

[Anwar]

Yep, she isn't going to die in this series. Not until the DVD movies anyways.

And if she does die there, it'll likely not matter much to Eddie by that point because he'll either have been killed off or too insane to care about his old life anymore.

[AIRWOLF]

Yep, she isn't going to die in this series. Not until the DVD movies anyways.

And if she does die there, it'll likely not matter much to Eddie by that point because he'll either have been killed off or too insane to care about his old life anymore.

Quiet right. But even if they did want to kill Gwen off, could do they really do that on Tv? Isn't there some sort of restriction or anything to show actual death?

Seeing as how they have handled pretty much every episode well, I have no doubt that they could muster up something much more believable for Eddie.

[Odin's Lapdog]

death is fine, characters have died on legion of superheroes and also The batman, good/bad and innocent characters...

[November Rain]

Alright one ep to go till venom shows up at the end so far we have this....

He was annoyed at pete for taking pictures of his boss while in sticky situation twice.

once with lizard and another time with the symbiote.

That seems to be the be and and end all of harry's motivations.

He feels betrayed that the person he's 'looked' after doesnt have any moral fibre.

Now pete hasn't been directly responsible or influenced eddie's life in any way. He hasn't gotten him sacked or attacked or hurt or ruined his career or rep or embarassed him at all. neither has spidey.

Is eddie seeing peter as an opportunist enough to carry his half of venom?

or is the symbiote going to take its hatred and basically make eddie seem like he hates parker more.

I always assumed the hatred was fairly 50/50 but I can't see it here and feel they should have given eddie something more substantial, especially with his comic history already showing it wasn't anything big to turn him.

[AIRWOLF]

He definitely needs more reason to become a full-fledged Venom. Although next episode is about Pete fighting the alien, it can't be for full 20 minutes. There needs to be more Eddie in the next and not just quick glimpses of him.

[Anwar]

Maybe they'd have been better off making Eddie a semi-friendly rival of Peter's instead of a close friend (that was Harry's schtick) so the animosity would more naturally flow.

[AIRWOLF]

What I think they're trying to do is make Eddie into an Anti-Hero, imo. It is very much possible that this new Venom may not even want to kill Spider-Man, just see him as a criminal. But than that wouldn't really work out too well in the long run.

Yes, that would have been nice, making him a friendly rival. But they wanted to make him to be much more closer to Peter so to make the conflict that much more emotional. Eddie's reason for being angry at Peter are justified but his reasons for being Venom are still left out in the dark.

[November Rain]

especially because he is aware of how much he knows returning the symbiote to conners would mean.

[Anwar]

Exactly, so why does he keep the symbiote when he gets it? Why doesn't he just decide to give it back to Connors?

[AIRWOLF]

Well that's easy. We all know symbiote is manipulative. If someone like Parker is swayed to keep it even though his intentions were to return the alien, just think how easy it would be for the alien to sway the mind of Brock, who is much more prone to getting angry which is his weakness, to keep it and do whatever the heck he wants.

[MikeFrost]

I think they are setting Eddie like this so the hole "Protect the innocents" moto sticks better than in the comics. He will still want to kill Spidey, but this way his sense of moral fiber will be more coherent I hope.

[Anwar]

Which sucks. Anti-Hero Venom was a terrible idea to begin with and just shows what a psycho he is.

[MikeFrost]

Which sucks. Anti-Hero Venom was a terrible idea to begin with and just shows what a psycho he is.

I dont want a Anti-Hero Venom, that's not what I said. He can still focus his villainess on Spiderman only and leave the innocent alone.
That's the point of Venom: Kill Spiderman. That's it. He won't kill innocents unless he really has to. The end that justifies the means is Spiderman. That's why I like his moto because it's a really psicopatic and twisted moto (not to mention incoherent).

[Anwar]

Well, if he DOESN'T hurt innocent people then it's okay, unlike the comics where he killed people when he didn't have to in nearly every story he was in.

[MikeFrost]

Well, if he DOESN'T hurt innocent people then it's okay, unlike the comics where he killed people when he didn't have to in nearly every story he was in.

About the cops he killed to escape:
Don't you think that if he left them alive they would tell how he escaped thus rendering his ability to escape on the next times more difficult ?

[Anwar]

I don't mean that. In ASM 300 he killed that kid cop when he could have just as easily knocked him out. It didn't matter because the kid would have been knocked out too fast to see anything more than just some big guy talking to himself and not Venom.

And he could have knocked out the guard at the Vault instead of killing him. They had him under video surveillance so it wouldn't matter if the guards talked or not they'd know how he escaped anyways.

And of course, it came back to bite him in the @$$ when the father of one of the guys he killed formed the Jury to hunt him down.

Hell, Brock even admitted to himself that he was a filthy murderous monster in "Separation Anxiety" but conveniently enough he had forgotten this self-revelation by his next appearance (the suit must have made him forget).

[Syncos]

Maybe they'd have been better off making Eddie a semi-friendly rival of Peter's instead of a close friend (that was Harry's schtick) so the animosity would more naturally flow.

Brock was really more of a big brother role than a close friend. I get the feeling that it was the kind of thing where they were both together a lot when they were really young, because their parents were friends. then once they died, they kinda drifted, but Brock still felt an obligation to protect Peter.

I'm not positive how many years difference between the two there is, either. It's quite possible that when their parents died, Peter was too young to really remember them, where as Brock was old enough to really have felt his parents being torn away.

I'm sure there's a lot more to the psychosis of Eddie that hasn't really been surfaced yet.

Granted, a lot of this is speculation.

[Anwar]

Eddie is only 2 or so years older than Peter at most.

If they're going the Ultimate route with Peter and Eddie's parents, then both Peter and Eddie remember then (Peter clearly remembers them in Ultimate, they just don't have a lot of Richard Parker flashbacks in the stories).

[Syncos]

Eddie is only 2 or so years older than Peter at most.

If they're going the Ultimate route with Peter and Eddie's parents, then both Peter and Eddie remember then (Peter clearly remembers them in Ultimate, they just don't have a lot of Richard Parker flashbacks in the stories).

that's if they're going the ultimate route.

[Anwar]

I don't know, I like the idea of Peter actually remembering his parents. It adds to his char that he not only remembers the biological parents who loved him and then died, but then his second father also dies. Shows how despite that much tragedy at such an early part of his life he still maintains a strong moral fiber and isn't consumed by anger and grief.

[Styleshift]

I think they are setting Eddie like this so the hole "Protect the innocents" moto sticks better than in the comics. He will still want to kill Spidey, but this way his sense of moral fiber will be more coherent I hope.

dude i just read your theory...and it made me think : what if this version of eddie doesn't intend to kill Spidey at all?

when he said "you haven't lost enough yet"

that made me think that he's going to start stalking pete and making his life a living hell rather than just wanring to kill him...
I think venom is being set up to be a somewhat tragic character...

but i REALLY hope they reveal more about his background.
cause he was acting nutso on the bike and it seemed out of character...

[Anwar]

I still think Eddie wasn't thinking when he said that. I mean honestly, Peter lost Ben only a little while ago and Eddie doesn't think Peter's lost enough in his life.

What, does he think Peter should lost both his biological and adoptive parents? A guy that self-absorbed and arrogant gets no sympathy from me.

[Styleshift]

I still think Eddie wasn't thinking when he said that. I mean honestly, Peter lost Ben only a little while ago and Eddie doesn't think Peter's lost enough in his life.

What, does he think Peter should lost both his biological and adoptive parents? A guy that self-absorbed and arrogant gets no sympathy from me.

aha my friend Anwar :cwink:...
let me ask you something that i myself didn't think about until now...

In this version. who raised Eddie?
Peter had a caring aunt and a uncle that took him in.
That may just be the ace up these guys sleeve.

Eddie probably looks at Peter's life and sees him as having everything but taking it for granted.

[Anwar]

If they stick with Ultimate, then Eddie's grandparents raised him. Though that may not be the case here.

As for Peter's life being what Eddie wanted it's funny because it seems both have reason to be envious of the other: Eddie is a big strong guy who played football and was well-respected back in Midtown High as well as an intellectual. Peter was a scrawny guy who could hard lift weight in Gym, needed to wear dorky glasses and has been constantly pushed around his whole life (though not soon anymore...) and must have wished he was big and strong like Eddie.

So it seems both had reason to be envious of the other.

[Styleshift]

Well...Josh Keaton said on that podcast that the best dialog (in his opinion) is at the end of the series.

so im guessing theres some pretty tragic moments between eddie and peter.

[AIRWOLF]

If they stick with Ultimate, then Eddie's grandparents raised him. Though that may not be the case here.

As for Peter's life being what Eddie wanted it's funny because it seems both have reason to be envious of the other: Eddie is a big strong guy who played football and was well-respected back in Midtown High as well as an intellectual. Peter was a scrawny guy who could hard lift weight in Gym, needed to wear dorky glasses and has been constantly pushed around his whole life (though not soon anymore...) and must have wished he was big and strong like Eddie.

So it seems both had reason to be envious of the other.


But what Eddie seems to be lacking is Peter's strong morals and deep understanding of things, which was also made clear by MJ, at least that's what I think. Eddie maybe smart or well respected for his skills, but he comes short in understanding the situation and others necessities to greater extent.

[varsas]

Eddie is only 2 or so years older than Peter at most.

If they're going the Ultimate route with Peter and Eddie's parents, then both Peter and Eddie remember then (Peter clearly remembers them in Ultimate, they just don't have a lot of Richard Parker flashbacks in the stories).

Isn't Peter in his first year of high school with Eddie in his first year of college i.e. about 4-5 years difference?

EDIT: Oops, I thought I heard Peter mention it being the first year in episode 1 but he just says the first day of a new year so 2 is probably right since I think Peter is likely to be 16?

[Anwar]

Martha said that Peter was 16 in "Interactions", and Eddie is a first year College student (how did he become Connors' assistant so fast?) so he's 18.

[Styleshift]

Isn't Peter in his first year of high school with Eddie in his first year of college i.e. about 4-5 years difference?

EDIT: Oops, I thought I heard Peter mention it being the first year in episode 1 but he just says the first day of a new year so 2 is probably right since I think Peter is likely to be 16?

Yea Peter's a junior dude.
Eddie is a freshman in college. there's not much of an age difference. but Eddie used to look out for Pete like an older brother.

They've been developing Eddie since the first Ep. I doubt that the character thats been developed the most is the one that they drop the ball with. if Venom isn't good in this series. it will be an EPIC fail.
but i have faith...I mean we haven't had ANY bad episodes yet. all of them have been PACKED with story.

unlike toons like The batman (first season). where you can describe the plot in a sentence and the fight scenes in a paragraph...:whatever:

[Kal-El 8]

TV Guide (http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-News-Blog/Todays-News/Exclusive-Spider-Mans/800040829) has an exclusive first look at The upcoming Spectacular SPIDER-MAN very own VENOM ! Check out the image!

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4103/55837924xp7.png

After weeks of teasing, Venom finally makes his appearance on The CW's The Spectacular Spider-Man this Saturday, and we've got your exclusive first look. The alien menace, a popular Spidey villain from the comics and last year's Spider-Man 3, bonded to Peter Parker two episodes ago. On this week's episode, "Intervention" (airing June 7 at 10 am/ET) Peter fights back, forcing the symbiote to look for a new host — paging Pete's pal Eddie Brock! — and take on the form of the slithery, fanged Venom. :sym:

[Parquagh]

^wow, nice, looks like Venom will show up at Connor's lab...

[Arcturus]

Holy ****! He looks terrifying there. Like, "Hey bro, I'm going to smash your face into the ****ing wall!"

I approve.

:up:

[Spider-ManHero12]

Holy ****! He looks terrifying there. Like, "Hey bro, I'm going to smash your face into the ****ing wall!" That's just the way I like him, too.

[Anwar]

Okay, so Spidey will give the symbiote back and Eddie will then release it?

[Spider-ManHero12]

Okay, so Spidey will give the symbiote back and Eddie will then release it? Well, we're not too sure about that. I mean, the battle could go from a certain area and then lead to Dr. Connors' lab or something.

[Venom.X]

Okay, so Spidey will give the symbiote back and Eddie will then release it?

That makes no sense, if Peter goes to the church to get rid of it, how would it get back to any lab?

[Venom 1988]

That makes no sense, if Peter goes to the church to get rid of it, how would it get back to any lab?

Um pretty easy

The symbiote would be in a weak state, Peter wraps it in a web-sack (ala 90s TAS) and hurries his ass to the lab.

[MikeFrost]

Um pretty easy

The symbiote would be in a weak state, Peter wraps it in a web-sack (ala 90s TAS) and hurries his ass to the lab.

Whats the point of having the hole iconic church "Getting rid of the symbiote/Venom birth" scene, then ?

[Webhead2006]

well we dont know whats going on with venom at the lab. Maybe peter/brock took the symboite back there or maybe Venom attacks spidey at the lab.... We dont know.

[Venom 1988]

Whats the point of having the hole iconic church "Getting rid of the symbiote/Venom birth" scene, then ?
Who says Venom has to be born in the church? Having this Brock being based on lot on his ultimate counter part, theres a big chance its going to happen in the lab.

[Joker]

Yeah, we don't need him created in the church. He might forget God's ten commandments again, and ask God to kill Peter :o

[Webhead2006]

yea looks like they are mixing both having the symboite removed in the church like 616/sm3/90s and venom born in lab like ultimate. What ever it is we will know saturday.

[MikeFrost]

Who says Venom has to be born in the church? Having this Brock being based on lot on his ultimate counter part, theres a big chance its going to happen in the lab.

Honestly I hope not. Venom's church origin is an iconic 616 moment. I hope they dont close their eyes at that. Its the hole "gift from heaven" icon that really made Venom's origin in the church really cool. I mean, it's even one of the best scenes in SM3 and I hated that movie.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Who says Venom has to be born in the church? Having this Brock being based on lot on his ultimate counter part, theres a big chance its going to happen in the lab. Exactly, and besides, Brock really does spend alot of time in Dr. Connors' lab and he helps him out with things, but it can go either way.

[Venom 1988]

Honestly I hope not. Venom's church origin is an iconic 616 moment.
I definitly would not go as far as saying its iconic...its more like "Wha huh? Who is this Brock guy?""

[Spider-ManHero12]

I definitly would not go as far as saying its iconic...its more like "Wha huh? Who is this Brock guy?"" Brock getting the Symbiote at the church is my favorite version. Therei s only one other version, whichi s Ultimate Venom.

[Jick09]

damn...that Venom is awesome

[DACrowe]

It really isn't that iconic in 616. It was more "I'm Eddie?" Peter says "Edide, who?" Venom responds "The guy who wanted to kill himself in the church that night." ooooooooook.

When you think iconic you are thinking SM3 mostly. They changed it to a castle to avoid religion in TAS. SM3 is the only one to give that scene gravitas in a church (though it was great in the New York "castle" in TAS).

Anyway I really liked the scene between Eddie and MJ in this episode...a lot. It was a great few moments for MJ and developed Eddie as just not angry at Peter, but as an unhinged jealous man, as well.

[Styleshift]

especially because he is aware of how much he knows returning the symbiote to conners would mean.

Let's all remember that even though this was retconned. he could not be seperated from the symbiote or it would kill him.

this idea was reused in Spider-man T.A.S.

[Styleshift]

Anything will topple the original origin of Venom...
he's essentially a broken character since his humble beginnings...but we love him anyway lol. he's just a cool character...I hate to say it but I've only seen him done real justice in Spidey T.A.S.

It's good to see them combine elements of the character over the years to flesh him out...and
as long as they avoid overexposing him, planet of the symbiotes and that cancer arc (which i thought was a good story but it murdered the character however.) we'll be just fine. :)

[Nathan]

Yeah, we don't need him created in the church. He might forget God's ten commandments again, and ask God to kill Peter :o

Hey, it says "You shall not kill." It doesn't say God can't do someone a favor. Especially since he did some killing back in the past himself. :o

[November Rain]

have they redesigned venom, he doesn't look anything like his torso heavy self from before....


speaking of topics here, we have yet to see any signs of eddie's natural enhanced strengh in relation to parker, either by seeing him training or other means. They left it late in the comics and in tas but i wonder if it'll be included here considering it wasn't in the ultimate universe.

[Venom.X]

Isn't it just implied? He was a football player throughout high school...I'm sure he's built enough, even if you can't tell somehow by looking at his design.

[xMaNiAx]

Brock getting the Symbiote at the church is my favorite version. Therei s only one other version, whichi s Ultimate Venom.

same here Hero, i was so excited to see it in the TAS im even more excited to see how they'll interpret SSM origin..

[November Rain]

as mentioned before, he got it as a belltower of a castle in tas, not a church.

[AIRWOLF]

Brock getting the Symbiote at the church is my favorite version. Therei s only one other version, whichi s Ultimate Venom.

Yeah although it might not be that much of an iconic moment, but it definitely sets Venom as something unholy or demonic, that's what I thought at least.

[Arcturus]

It really isn't that iconic in 616. It was more "I'm Eddie?" Peter says "Edide, who?" Venom responds "The guy who wanted to kill himself in the church that night." ooooooooook.

When you think iconic you are thinking SM3 mostly. They changed it to a castle to avoid religion in TAS. SM3 is the only one to give that scene gravitas in a church (though it was great in the New York "castle" in TAS).

Anyway I really liked the scene between Eddie and MJ in this episode...a lot. It was a great few moments for MJ and developed Eddie as just not angry at Peter, but as an unhinged jealous man, as well.

I agree, DACrowe.

:up:

[November Rain]

yeah, in 616 parker really didn't give a flying **** about who venom was and was letting him rant on so he could buy himself some time and reach that raygun thing he had...

[Anwar]

Yeah, I still think that it would've been a better reveal to have Venom remove his "face" and show Harry underneath, explaining that the symbiote knew about him from Peter's memories and sought him out, bonding to him and giving him back his memories of how Peter "killed" Norman and how Harry tried to be the Goblin but was defeated.

[Robin91939]

I really hope that they make him refer to himself and the alien as "WE". It really just stresses the fact that Eddie is dependent on the symbiote and that he really feels he is nothing on his own. It is he fact that he is still struggling to bond with the alien and that there is still the part of the good Eddie deep down there that is salvageable.....carnage says "I", Venom says "WE".

I think Rami nixed this in Spider-man 3 because at times he had Doctor Octopus refer to himself as "We" (himself and the arms) in Spider-man 2 and he didn't want that similarity- but I want Venom to have his line "Call us, Venom".

-R

[Anwar]

Well, Peter himself is referring to himself as "We" in "Group Therapy" so I think Eddie will do the same thing.

[Don Yoyo]

I think Rami nixed this in Spider-man 3 because at times he had Doctor Octopus refer to himself as "We" (himself and the arms) in Spider-man 2 and he didn't want that similarity- but I want Venom to have his line "Call us, Venom".

Well, in the movies, the tentacles seem to be a lot more "alive" than the symbiote :oldrazz: Well, I even thought Venom was not necessary because we already had a symbiote in the second movie :woot: Symbiote is fails, big living tentacles that can warn you when something unpleasant come your way are win :oldrazz:

There is also the fact that in the movies, Eddie Brock is far more of a bad guy than Otto Octavius, the symbiote just gave him something he has wanted for a long time : power.

[Styleshift]

have they redesigned venom, he doesn't look anything like his torso heavy self from before....


speaking of topics here, we have yet to see any signs of eddie's natural enhanced strengh in relation to parker, either by seeing him training or other means. They left it late in the comics and in tas but i wonder if it'll be included here considering it wasn't in the ultimate universe.

Get Ready to say...Omg.

Venom for this cartoon will be the most solid design besides Spidey himself.
it's perfect. it's not that much different from the T.a.s. version. the only thing some fans might nit pick about is the symbol. but besides that everythings there.

he looks like a SERIOUS threat.

[Webhead2006]

well there is some other differences between TAS and SSM Venom.

[Spider-ManHero12]

well there is some other differences between TAS and SSM Venom. Do you mean in just his look or his overall character?

[Webhead2006]

look mostly. We cant SSM venom yet cause we dont know how he is going ot turn out fully just yet.

[Kal-El 8]

http://marvel.toonzone.net/specspidey/reviews/intervention/t-09.jpg (http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=12)

[November Rain]

looks like baby venom

[November Rain]

Yeah, I still think that it would've been a better reveal to have Venom remove his "face" and show Harry underneath, explaining that the symbiote knew about him from Peter's memories and sought him out, bonding to him and giving him back his memories of how Peter "killed" Norman and how Harry tried to be the Goblin but was defeated.there's only one problem with harry becoming venom

is his hatred for spiderman enough to wish to emulate him

or

would he rather follow in his father's footsteps since he was always looking for his approval.

or

would harry take on board the symbiote and make himself a gobline styled venom instead of a spidey styled one

or is the reveal of harry being the new green goblin enough to warrant staying away from venom altogether.

[Arcturus]

I can't wait to see the events that unfold in Intervention & Nature vs Nurture

[Anwar]

there's only one problem with harry becoming venom

is his hatred for spiderman enough to wish to emulate him

or

would he rather follow in his father's footsteps since he was always looking for his approval.

or

would harry take on board the symbiote and make himself a gobline styled venom instead of a spidey styled one

or is the reveal of harry being the new green goblin enough to warrant staying away from venom altogether.

If it was the comics, Harry wouldn't care about what he looked like if it meant he could get back at Peter (his main problem was lack of powers, no Goblin strength). If it was the movies Harry would claim he chose to keep the Spider-Man appearance to prove to himself he was better than Peter (he was angry over how Norman respected Peter more and treated him more as a son) when he killed him.

[November Rain]

Well intervention has finished airing and now we have our venom?

I'm really completely miffed by it all....

Eddie gets told ultimately that he can no longer go to uni because he can't afford it without his research position.

Then in the end he gets to see the symbiote back and even though spidey tries to kill it, he doesn't so there it is alive with all its problems over.

And the dude lets it go?

I have to say I feel in trying to combine tas/comics/ultimates into the cartoon, spec has really dropped the ball in giving us a definitive venom with a decent motivation from eddie.