Are things going too fast?

[rohitiyer]

Don't get me wrong... I'm in love with this show and I also understand that it's a Saturday morning cartoon mainly aimed at kids.

But is it just me, or are things moving a little too fast? I mean we just had the goblin arc, then a cameo by Doc Ock and then suddenly the black suit; not to mention the Chameleon, Quentin Beck, Black Cat, Captain Stacy, etc.

It's like the producers and writers are going through a laundry list of characters and events so that they can move on to new stuff.

When I watch with my non-geek friends, they're always asking me - "Who's this? Where'd she come from? What's happening?"

It's all fun and good, but maybe they could slow up a little.

[Gotham]

The first season is the toughest for any show. You have to keep up interest for a second season, which the viewers really become the permanent fan base. I think we'll see much, much more development with each character in the second season.

[FNSpidey]

I agree with both. They are going a little too fast, but this is exactly what they want. They have to include all this stuff in the first season, all the major villains and certainly the symbiote saga, so as to ensure excitement for a second season. The symbiote saga in TAS was also included in the first season, it's how these shows go.
I do believe (and hope) though, that they'll slow down just a little in the second season, flesh out some of the characters a little more, and go with more complicated multi-episode storylines, involving major villains. Not any childish "Neogenic Nightmare" stuff, but "Master Planner" and "Gang wars" could span 2 to 4 episodes each.

[Valorman]

are they going too fast?

no.

[spider_man_2]

I agree with both. They are going a little too fast, but this is exactly what they want. They have to include all this stuff in the first season, all the major villains and certainly the symbiote saga, so as to ensure excitement for a second season. The symbiote saga in TAS was also included in the first season, it's how these shows go.
I do believe (and hope) though, that they'll slow down just a little in the second season, flesh out some of the characters a little more, and go with more complicated multi-episode storylines, involving major villains. Not any childish "Neogenic Nightmare" stuff, but "Master Planner" and "Gang wars" could span 2 to 4 episodes each.

Agreed, I want to see adaptations of those old school storylines instead of made-up filler material like in the 90's TAS. I'm fairly sure this show will deliver.

[Joker]

A cameo by Doc Ock? A whole episode is a cameo :confused:

[GoldGoblin]

Good things always goes by fast.

[Spec Spider-Man]

I don't think they are.

[November Rain]

Yeah, perhaps they have gone too fast with things...

black cat and symbiote come to mind....

and the green goblin saga feels like it came to a stop real quick and still things havent been sorted out with tombstone

tombstone, green goblin and venom could have all held a series each.

It may just backfire and make following seasons lack a little, when spidey's average rogue's start repeating themselves, they actually aren't that interesting to watch.

Saying this though, they've got more than enough peter parker storyline to keep them going.

[spider-neil]

the faster they get the venom character over and done with so they can concentrate on the silver age characters the better, so no they aren't moving to fast.

[Mister J]

There has been a lot being thrown out there in 11 (or how many ever) episodes there have been. I understand it though; as mentioned they needed to grab people's attention, as well as distinguish this from any of the other Spidey shows. Taking that into account, I haven't really minded that so much has been offered so soon. It's been handled well and the show is damn entertaining overall. I imagine the newer episodes being scripted will become more deliberate now that the show has established itself.

[spider-neil]

it may suffer from the 'heroes' effect though, if you start off at an explosive pace it becomes very hard to follow it next season but you have to make season one as good as possible or the network may not pick up the second season.

[Mister J]

Yeah, it's definitely a balance. With whatever the situation is with Kids WB/whatever it's called now, I don't blame the show for coming out with both webshooters firing. I would have liked to seen them hold off on the symbiote until the finale though.

[Visionary]

It's a cartoon, not a comic book, we can't wait 10 episodes until we see the next villain. Something tells me that if the show wasn't moving at this pace, we get people saying how slow and boring it is with not enough action, like what was said about SM2.

[Sarcastic Fan]

It's a cartoon, not a comic book, we can't wait 10 episodes until we see the next villain. Something tells me that if the show wasn't moving at the pace, we get people saying how slow and boring it is with not enough action, like what was said about SM2.

People love to *****. No matter what this show does, people will *****.

[DACrowe]

Not really. This show I think knows pretty clearly where it is going in a two season storyline and is pacing itself fine. Sure BC came late in TAS, but Venom showed up pretty darn early in TAS as well and it worked. It works here and unlike TAS, this is more faithful and you can see Norman/GG returning and the death of Gwen Stacy bbeing the centerpiece (or rather finale) of season 2.

I think this show knows what it is doing and fans just like to second guess everything too much.

[Eddie Brock]

They're going way too fast, IMO, but it doesn't take away from the show. The symbiote/Venom shouldn't appear until about the 3rd Season at the earliest.

[DACrowe]

I don't understand that. What's wrong with making Venom a villain earlier on? In movies I understand there are simpler to tell (which you need) and more worthy villains that need to make it to the screen first and in all honesty, we probably shouldn't have seen Venom in a movie until SM4 or SM5.

But what is wrong with doing it in a show that has a new villain almost every week and tons of subplots? Long as it is well told you can fold Venom into the villain line-up along with the rest of the rogue gallery. The first season of TAS was amazingly good and the peak of it was the black suit saga and it did not take away from the Hobgoblin two parter that followed it.

Why not do the black suit in the first season? Just because it happened differently in the comics? Well, why not let the black suit come from Secret Wars too, then? Why not make Brock a random stalker with a terrible motive? That's how it is in the comics...

[FNSpidey]

People love to *****. No matter what this show does, people will *****.

Not that I disagree with you, but nobody has really complained about this so far. It's just an observation.

[Venomfan]

I don't understand that. What's wrong with making Venom a villain earlier on? In movies I understand there are simpler to tell (which you need) and more worthy villains that need to make it to the screen first and in all honesty, we probably shouldn't have seen Venom in a movie until SM4 or SM5.

But what is wrong with doing it in a show that has a new villain almost every week and tons of subplots? Long as it is well told you can fold Venom into the villain line-up along with the rest of the rogue gallery. The first season of TAS was amazingly good and the peak of it was the black suit saga and it did not take away from the Hobgoblin two parter that followed it.

Why not do the black suit in the first season? Just because it happened differently in the comics? Well, why not let the black suit come from Secret Wars too, then? Why not make Brock a random stalker with a terrible motive? That's how it is in the comics...
i think its because he's the toughest enemy to overcome in a fight, so it makes battles after Venom seem not as epic, like saving Scorpion til season 2-3 or w/e, he's basically just going to appear to be a weaker version of Venom unless they change him

[Anwar]

Venom is a physical foe, nothing more. The other foes like Green Goblin, Tombstone/Bigman, and Hobgoblin when they get to him will be deadlier foes because there's more to them than just brute force.

And if you bring up the "but he knows Peter's secret!" thing, let's face it Venom had never done anything with that information CLOSE to what Harry or Norman did.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Venom is a physical foe, nothing more. The other foes like Green Goblin, Tombstone/Bigman, and Hobgoblin when they get to him will be deadlier foes because there's more to them than just brute force.

And if you bring up the "but he knows Peter's secret!" thing, let's face it Venom had never done anything with that information CLOSE to what Harry or Norman did.

Quoted for mother****ing truth!

[Anwar]

Venom should have been Abomination to Peter's Hulk, only stronger. Blonsky knows how to hurt Bruce like when he poisoned Betty.

Instead, he's....not.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Defenitley no. They are moving at a perfect pace, IMO.

[Arcturus]

Venom is a physical foe, nothing more. The other foes like Green Goblin, Tombstone/Bigman, and Hobgoblin when they get to him will be deadlier foes because there's more to them than just brute force.

And if you bring up the "but he knows Peter's secret!" thing, let's face it Venom had never done anything with that information CLOSE to what Harry or Norman did.

Well they did say in the podcast that Venom was going to be manipulative and evil.

[Anwar]

But how? I don't see this Eddie willing to endanger May or even reveal Peter's ID because it would harm May, Gwen and everyone at Midtown High in the process. May has probably got to be like an Aunt to him too since he also lost his folks.

TAS and Movie Brock it was believable that he'd hurt innocent people (though TAS Brock never did).

[Arcturus]

But how? I don't see this Eddie willing to endanger May or even reveal Peter's ID because it would harm May, Gwen and everyone at Midtown High in the process. May has probably got to be like an Aunt to him too since he also lost his folks.

TAS and Movie Brock it was believable that he'd hurt innocent people (though TAS Brock never did).

Sigh, don't ask me. Ask Greg. (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/ask.php)

[Arcturus]

Anyways, I don't think things are going to fast. I think the pacing of each episode is fine.

[ReggieWhiteJr]

Nah, I think the pacing of this season has been just fine. Some eps seem to move at a brisk pace while others take it a bit more slow, which is alright with me. There's yet to be an ep I have not liked.

[Ratcrawler]

I do think things are going a bit fast but not in terms of "It's WAY too soon for the Symbiote Arc!" or general comic book continuity. Hell, the movies introduced Venom before all but 4 of sPidey's classic enemies unless they retcon that. But if the movies introduce sPider-Man villains at a snail's pace and pretty much kill 'em all off at the end of each film, it could be said that this cartoon is an almost perfect counter-balance of that.

Everything does seem a bit more "compact" in this show. The same two cops (DeWolfe & What's his face) show up in every episode, sPider-Man kept catching Marko and O'Hirn who kept robbing places before 10 and there's never any traffic. It's like the show takes place in a small town sometimes.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Everything does seem a bit more "compact" in this show. The same two cops (DeWolfe & What's his face) show up in every episode, sPider-Man kept catching Marko and O'Hirn who kept robbing places before 10 and there's never any traffic. It's like the show takes place in a small town sometimes.

This is very much Greg Weisman's style, he did it in "Gargoyles" all the time. Every character, no matter how minor or background, he always remembered and eventually did something with them.

This Yuppie Couple named Brendan and Margot appeared as background characters a lot. Eventually, we found out that Margot was an Assistant D.A. and would become a public servant enemy of the gargoyles.

Or, this sap who had his motorcycle destroyed and worked two security gigs that were messed up by the gargoyles. Well, forty episodes later, we get an episode all about him.

Greg does that, and I think it's kind of cool that no one is incidental.

[Anwar]

Also, he's doing it with all established chars even if they aren't exactly as they were in the comics (somehow I don't see the Sin-Eater story happening to Stan here).

Yeah, it does make the world a little smaller but there are more chars they can show later on. What about the other Stacys (Arthur, Jill, Gwen's mom Helen) and that Cop that JMS had Peter contact during his run on Amazing?

I do wonder if they'll make Richard and Mary Parker into government agents in this version or if they'll be scientists like in Ultimate. Since they and the Brocks all died together I'm guessing the latter.

[Ratcrawler]

WITH THE PIE-LAUNCHER!!! LOL That dude was great!

[Spiderine]

i think this series is moving at a reasonable pace. Which is good.

[Valorman]

the thing i don't understand about this argument is people are talking about "pace" as in villain introductions, and the prime example seems to be venom.

they've weaved in a bunch of story seamlessly and theirs still a lot of complaints about people appearing too fast, a prime argument being once their introduced, nothings going to be exciting because the big guns are already set.

why does it seem like the big key to all of this is something people keep forgetting, will they introduce, say, venom in first season? yes. does that mean we wont see him again? absolutely not. were going to get scorpion and hob goblin in season three, and a bunch of others I'd bet as well, but between those episodes i wouldn't be surprised if we got our third sandman appearance or our fifth shocker appearance, Etc. Etc.

just because their introduced, doesn't mean their finished, this is LITERALLY only the beginning.

[FNSpidey]

why does it seem like the big key to all of this is something people keep forgetting, will they introduce, say, venom in first season? yes. does that mean we wont see him again? absolutely not. were going to get scorpion and hob goblin in season three, and a bunch of others I'd bet as well, but between those episodes i wouldn't be surprised if we got our third sandman appearance or our fifth shocker appearance, Etc. Etc.

just because their introduced, doesn't mean their finished, this is LITERALLY only the beginning.

Precisely. Moreover, introducing them now gives them a chance to use them in more intricate storylines, involving many characters, without having to get origins and introductions out of the way first. I hope this is what storylines like "Gang wars" will be about.

[Valorman]

Precisely. Moreover, introducing them now gives them a chance to use them in more intricate storylines, involving many characters, without having to get origins and introductions out of the way first. I hope this is what storylines like "Gang wars" will be about.


Couldn't have said it better :cwink:

[Captain Planet!]

It's not going too fast. TAS went faster than this.

[Silver Spider]

Defenitley no. They are moving at a perfect pace, IMO.
Agreed. When you think about it, how much have we really seen? We've had a Dr. Connors arc; a Big Man arc; a Green Goblin arc, which is connected to the Big Man arc; a Chameleon/Black Cat semi-arc, and a symbiote arc. Five main stories in one season is not bad.

[19bernardo87]

Well, you gotta realize that right now they have two seasons made adn don't even know if they will be able to air the second. They are trying to showcase as much as they can.

[Webhead2006]

No they have the second season we just dont know what network it will be airing on. Will it be airing on cw 4 kids or will it move to another network we dont know. Currently they have been doing the voice recordings for the season 2 episodes and are working on the animation. That is what greg said in the podcasts and SF said too before.

[ragingdemon155]

First off, let me see that I love the show. It's levels above the Spider-man show from the 90's. I enjoyed that show as well, but this show is allowing Spider-man to really cut loose. I mean, I'm a bit in shock at how brutal some of the fights are. It's great to see cause this is how super hero action should be. That being said, I do believe that the show is going a bit too fast. It probably seems a bit faster for me being that I downloaded all the episodes and viewed them in about two sittings. Still though, feels like the show just started and we're already getting Venom. I wouldn't mind a little slow down in the pace, but then again the plots are so well done that it's hard to complain about anything.

Bottom line is....I love this show.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Agreed. When you think about it, how much have we really seen? We've had a Dr. Connors arc; a Big Man arc; a Green Goblin arc, which is connected to the Big Man arc; a Chameleon/Black Cat semi-arc, and a symbiote arc. Five main stories in one season is not bad. I couldn't have said it better, Silver Spider.

[Casius--J]

When watching the black suit episode i was thinking the exact same thing but it makes sense if they want to be back for another season. There's still plenty of places these characters can go in the next few seasons.

[Spider-ManHero12]

When watching the black suit episode i was thinking the exact same thing but it makes sense if they want to be back for another season. There's still plenty of places these characters can go in the next few seasons. You defenitley have a point and personally, I'm really excited to see what will happen to these characers and how they will change in each season.

[WarrenPeace2012]

I'm loving this show and the pace is going just right imo. The sooner we see Venom, we can get to Carnage! Let's just hope they dont go the Sam Raimi route and kill Venom off and did a huge hole for themselves if they ever want to bring him back.

[Anwar]

They could do the logical thing and have the symbiote survive and bond to Harry, who SHOULD have always been Venom.

[Webhead2006]

well i dont know if greg wants to do carnage i think someone mentioned that he doesnt have any plans to do carnage. If they are doing anything with the symboite it should just stay on brock for run of series or have the symboite die.

[Spiderine]

They may say that, but who knows come season 4 or 5 they may decide to go ahead and do him.

[Spider-ManHero12]

well i dont know if greg wants to do carnage i think someone mentioned that he doesnt have any plans to do carnage. If they are doing anything with the symboite it should just stay on brock for run of series or have the symboite die. Yeah, I think he said it in the Podcast we listened to.

[UltimateJustin]

I know they have to put Venom in the first season, but they didn't need to do it by introducing Beck, Chamelian and Black Cat at the same time as the symbiote. It takes away from the impact. Its still badass though, probably some of Spiderman's best quips are on this show.

[Havok83]

yes it is. Its WAY too early for them to do the black suit

[Stevens25]

The only major complaint I really have is that I wish Peter would've kept the black suit for at least another episode. How long did he wear it? 3 episodes?
But I guess you also have to look at ratings as well. I think some of this was probably rushed because they had no idea how good ratings would be and they wanted to get all the good stuff in just in case the show never made it past the first season(my guess anyway).

[Sarcastic Fan]

Well, let's see. So far, we've gotten:

SSM
Vulture
Electro
Lizard
Shocker
Sandman
Rhino
Green Goblin
Dr. Octopus
Chameleon
Venom
Tombstone
Hammerhead

TAS
Lizard
Alistair Smythe
Kingpin
Dr. Octopus
Mysterio
Scorpion
Kraven the Hunter
Rhino
Shocker
Venom
Hobgoblin
Chameleon

Twelve villains in season one of both series. And I'm not counting characters who would later become villains like Norman Osborn in TAS; and Beck and Mason in SSM. I'm discounting the Enforcers and the Spider Slayers.

Though, Spidey had the symbiote longer in SSM than TAS.

[ironwez20]

i also agree i just finish watching ep 12 o yea they said there going to make peter grown up in the coming seasons

[Web-Head]

yes it is. Its WAY too early for them to do the black suit
SM TAS did it even earlier in the show's run. :huh:

[Spider-ManHero12]

SM TAS did it even earlier in the show's run. :huh: Exactly, this show really is doing at the right time, which is towards the end of the first season.

[Cmill216]

SM TAS did it even earlier in the show's run. :huh:

But, to play devil's advocate, that doesn't justify SSM doing it.

[Webhead2006]

Yea true but it probably wasnt the producers ideas to have venom this early like raimi probably sony made them use him this early.

[UltimateJustin]

Also, how much time is meant to have passed on the show so far? Cause wasn't it only a few episodes ago that it was homecoming, which is usually pretty early in the school year? Each season is supposed to be a semester?

It would be cooler if each season was a year so that it would space out his encounters with major villains better. Also, since the show is only going to get at best five seasons, we could actually have a show where Spidey starts off in hs and goes onto college.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Also, how much time is meant to have passed on the show so far? Cause wasn't it only a few episodes ago that it was homecoming, which is usually pretty early in the school year? Each season is supposed to be a semester?

It would be cooler if each season was a year so that it would space out his encounters with major villains better. Also, since the show is only going to get at best five seasons, we could actually have a show where Spidey starts off in hs and goes onto college.

Next week is Thanksgiving.

[Silver Spider]

Also, how much time is meant to have passed on the show so far? Cause wasn't it only a few episodes ago that it was homecoming, which is usually pretty early in the school year? Each season is supposed to be a semester?

It would be cooler if each season was a year so that it would space out his encounters with major villains better.
Well "Uncertainty Principle" was during Halloween, so it should be pretty close to the end of the semester now.
Also, since the show is only going to get at best five seasons, we could actually have a show where Spidey starts off in hs and goes onto college.
That's the plan.:word:

[Silver Spider]

Next week is Thanksgiving.
cool.:word:

[xMaNiAx]

i also agree i just finish watching ep 12 o yea they said there going to make peter grown up in the coming seasons

do you have a direct link dude?

[Webhead2006]

yea they said the seasons would be going through a whole sesmter of school. Season 1 is fall of junior yr. Season 2 will be spring of junior yr. Then if their plan for 5 seasons works out the rest of the seasons can pan on like this season 3 summer break between junior and senior yr. Season 4 fall of senior yr. Then season 5 spring of senior yr and graduation.

[spida-man]

yea they said the seasons would be going through a whole sesmter of school. Season 1 is fall of junior yr. Season 2 will be spring of junior yr. Then if their plan for 5 seasons works out the rest of the seasons can pan on like this season 3 summer break between junior and senior yr. Season 4 fall of senior yr. Then season 5 spring of senior yr and graduation.
it's funny cause i just got through with my junior year lol.

and to me, the only way this series seems to be going by fast is the fact that season 1 is bassically over :(

other than that verything moved at a nice pace. at least to me it seems that way.

[November Rain]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.

[UltimateJustin]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.
Too fast, but the fights were pretty sweet. Again, it may have just been done because they wanted it to be the quintessential Spiderman show and believed pretty firmly this would be their only season, so even though there was no logical way to pack ALL that is Spiderman into 13 episodes, they decided it'd be worth it to try.

[Sarcastic Fan]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.

So, are you going to complain about the 90s series moving too fast with the *snicker* Insidious Six? They were formed after each character was used once.

They also appeared really early on in the comics. But, I guess Stan Lee was moving things too fast too.

I will never understand this complaint.

[Anwar]

I don't think a lot here have read the comics from the very start and are more used to decompressed storytelling like in "Astonishing X-Men".

[Silver Spider]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.
There's more than eight named villains Spidey's fought in this show. If you count Black Cat and Tombstone, he's fought about 15 named bad guys. And it's not like there was dozens of Spiderman villains, when the Sinister Six first appeared in the comics. If I recall, the Sinister Six was a very early story. I thought it was strange that they merged the SS appearance with the symbiote saga, but it was executed very well, imo.

[Anwar]

The Sinister Six were in the first Spidey annual. Only 1 year into his career, so in comics time it would've only been like a few months.

Strange that early Spidey comics aged him so fast compared to how it's done nowadays. He was 16 in ASM 1 and graduated by ASM 20, meaning he almost aged in real-time if he had just turned 16 when he became Spidey.

[November Rain]

There's more than eight named villains Spidey's fought in this show. If you count Black Cat and Tombstone, he's fought about 15 named bad guys. And it's not like there was dozens of Spiderman villains, when the Sinister Six first appeared in the comics. If I recall, the Sinister Six was a very early story. I thought it was strange that they merged the SS appearance with the symbiote saga, but it was executed very well, imo.The first six villains he put down came back in their next apperance as the sinister six. Sorry but that feels far too quick.

I've never been one to believe what occurs in the comics is always right. TV is a different medium. A six part story arc in a comic may only take 2 eps, time moves differently, you can't always have enough scenes to show what parker is thinking etc....

It's not even that it was a true sinister six story, rather six villains were used as part of the symbiote arc and really had enough material to hold a two parter on their own.

Considering they still had venom and tombstone to ultimately deal with, throwing in the sinister six in there as well was a lil overkill. I mean why not throw the clone saga and man spider in there too.

You've just got to ask whether you felt it showed the six in their best light or in at least a better light than they were in as individuals. The six have a delicate story and unless properly showcase the team up lacks meaning.

[Sarcastic Fan]

The first six villains he put down came back in their next apperance as the sinister six. Sorry but that feels far too quick.

I've never been one to believe what occurs in the comics is always right. TV is a different medium. A six part story arc in a comic may only take 2 eps, time moves differently, you can't always have enough scenes to show what parker is thinking etc....

It's not even that it was a true sinister six story, rather six villains were used as part of the symbiote arc and really had enough material to hold a two parter on their own.

Considering they still had venom and tombstone to ultimately deal with, throwing in the sinister six in there as well was a lil overkill. I mean why not throw the clone saga and man spider in there too.

You've just got to ask whether you felt it showed the six in their best light or in at least a better light than they were in as individuals. The six have a delicate story and unless properly showcase the team up lacks meaning.

Well, good thing it was properly showcased. Unlike a previous version where they were the Kingpin's flunkies.

[November Rain]

So, are you going to complain about the 90s series moving too fast with the *snicker* Insidious Six? They were formed after each character was used once.

They also appeared really early on in the comics. But, I guess Stan Lee was moving things too fast too.

I will never understand this complaint.
Well yeah, i'll go as far as to say in hindsight they did appear to early in both BUT i'll let the comics slide since the pacing back then was completely different.

a 13 ep series should have one underlying arc with a max of 3 mini arcs with some individual stories.

the six can carry a series, let alone a mini arc but to be crammed into a single ep of a venom arc only to serve the purpose of having the symbiote take them out while parker is asleep. Really, they could have used any villain under the sun for that, they weren't required.

[Silver Spider]

The first six villains he put down came back in their next apperance as the sinister six. Sorry but that feels far too quick.

I've never been one to believe what occurs in the comics is always right. TV is a different medium. A six part story arc in a comic may only take 2 eps, time moves differently, you can't always have enough scenes to show what parker is thinking etc....

It's not even that it was a true sinister six story, rather six villains were used as part of the symbiote arc and really had enough material to hold a two parter on their own.

Considering they still had venom and tombstone to ultimately deal with, throwing in the sinister six in there as well was a lil overkill. I mean why not throw the clone saga and man spider in there too.

You've just got to ask whether you felt it showed the six in their best light or in at least a better light than they were in as individuals. The six have a delicate story and unless properly showcase the team up lacks meaning.
Basically what their story is, is Doc Ock brings together a group of villains, that are very powerful, but can't work as a team; and that was shown in "Group Therapy."
Well, good thing it was properly showcased. Unlike a previous version where they were the Kingpin's flunkies.
:woot::up:

[UltimateJustin]

Pointing out that the same flaws exist in another show doesn't make it right in this one. I don't think anyone is arguing here that TAS is better anymore. That doesn't mean its still not a shame to have the S6 come in now instead of later when it would have been more dramatic and not in the midst of the symbiote story so that it could have been fleshed out.

TAS was a fun, instant submerging into Spider-Man's world. More is expected out of this show because it is story and character based. Weismen and them didn't get the greenlight for 26 episodes when they began work on this or there wouldnt be a "too soon" problem. They did their best with the symbiote angle but in the last episode when it all came to a head and Spidey got the realization that his friends are real and earned the will to overcome the suit, it fell a little flat for me. Thats because he just got the black suit on a wacky adventure with the Black Cat, fought the S6 and now dodged a call from Gwen Stacy, oh noooo. Ideally, he would have had the symbiote for an entire season, then we would have really had a climatic tower scene.

[November Rain]

Well, good thing it was properly showcased. Unlike a previous version where they were the Kingpin's flunkies.
Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.

take this example from the batman, himself and robin take out their entire rogue's gallery in the space of 2 mins. it reduces their risk as individuals if seen later.

Luckily this is the last entry for plenty of villains and it was done in season four, (not 1).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wen8jLkeGHo&feature=related

ya get my drift?

[Silver Spider]

Well yeah, i'll go as far as to say in hindsight they did appear to early in both BUT i'll let the comics slide since the pacing back then was completely different.

a 13 ep series should have one underlying arc with a max of 3 mini arcs with some individual stories.

the six can carry a series, let alone a mini arc but to be crammed into a single ep of a venom arc only to serve the purpose of having the symbiote take them out while parker is asleep. Really, they could have used any villain under the sun for that, they weren't required.
They can hold their own season, but they don't need a whole season just to tell their story; personally I think they would need an arc, at the most. I thouight their appearance was well utilized in that episode. This isn't going to be their only appearance anyway, so they will have more time to develop later. I mean, Greg is all about development, right?

[Sarcastic Fan]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

Actually, I thought it was refreshing that they defied this particular cliche.

[Silver Spider]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.
When was it that they were working together very well? Just because they all hit the same guy doesn't mean they are working together well. Shocker's the only one who seemed to work with his teammates for the better, but he ultimately failed. With the exception of a few strategies by Shocker, they never successfully utilized each other's strengths to better combat Spider-man.

[Silver Spider]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.

take this example from the batman, himself and robin take out their entire rogue's gallery in the space of 2 mins. it reduces their risk as individuals if seen later.

Luckily this is the last entry for plenty of villains and it was done in season four, (not 1).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wen8jLkeGHo&feature=related

ya get my drift?
I get what you're saying, that if he can beat them together now, then they don't seem as much as a threat alone. And that the Sinister Six's story shows that they are beaten, not by being weak, but by not working together properly.
But personally I think that was shown in "Group Therapy."

[November Rain]

Actually, I thought it was refreshing that they defied this particular cliche.
I personally don't believe six supervillains couldn't take a single hero in any confrontation.

the cliche is the only way i can stomach the story personally but to each their own.

[spida-man]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.
WHY? in the original comics he fount each member of the sinister six only once before they joined together.

[November Rain]

When was it that they were working together very well? Just because they all hit the same guy doesn't mean they are working together well. Shocker's the only one who seemed to work with his teammates for the better, but he ultimately failed. With the exception of a few strategies by Shocker, they never successfully utilized each other's strengths to better combat Spider-man.
Their first confrontation with spidey along with aspects of their second. Big credit to shocker

but there certainly wasn't any egos flying while they were fighting. No one got mad at each other and they all had their eyes on the same prize which was taking out spidey. No one really jumped on anyone's territory and they were happy to co-operate with one another.

Their failing wasn't based on their ability to work with one another, rather than the symbiote was just that much better at taking them out swifty AND could also take a lot of punishment which they did give him and he kept coming back. I mean he took an explosion to the face, electric jolts that could knock out rhino as well as plenty of heavy blows initially.

they were ultimately unlucky.

[Silver Spider]

I personally don't believe six supervillains couldn't take a single hero in any confrontation.

the cliche is the only way i can stomach the story personally but to each their own.
I feel that way too. I always felt like, "how come he could barely beat the villains individually before, but now he can beat a whole team without an insane amount of hassle?" Sinister Six story has always explained it as that their weakness, is not in power, but in teamwork. My only opposing opinion with you, is that I thought that was utilized in "Group Therapy."

[Silver Spider]

Their first confrontation with spidey along with aspects of their second. Big credit to shocker

but there certainly wasn't any egos flying while they were fighting. No one got mad at each other and they all had their eyes on the same prize which was taking out spidey. No one really jumped on anyone's territory and they were happy to co-operate with one another.

Their failing wasn't based on their ability to work with one another, rather than the symbiote was just that much better at taking them out swifty AND could also take a lot of punishment which they did give him and he kept coming back. I mean he took an explosion to the face, electric jolts that could knock out rhino as well as plenty of heavy blows initially.

they were ultimately unlucky.
I saw the egos as more physical, as opposed to verbal. They didn't need to yell at each other to prove they were egotistical. You could see that they were all trying to take out Spidey themselves, but they got in each others way, which is what ultimately defeated them.

[November Rain]

WHY? in the original comics he fount each member of the sinister six only once before they joined together.
Again, I personally don't believe the comic way is always the gospel truth.

I mean they were all put away by spidey but they all had different goals and I don't believe many of them would have had that personal vendetta to put him out by now solely judging on their reactions in previous eps.

kinda like vulture, sandman and electro, even ock to a small extent since he was more interested in his power pack and osborn before. Shocker is purely a professional that wants a job finished and rhino was the only one that seemed really eager initially to personally take him out.

I guess maybe i feel a second apperance by at least some of them would really build up the angst. I would imagine a big man eployee would personally go against tombstone's orders and side with ock to get spidey out of the picture but i feel if the scores were big enough, some of them would have walked. Maybe they didn't make me believe spidey was as big a hinderance as they made him out to be.

I mean spidey wasn't really fussed 6 of his most deadly villains had come back to settle a score. If i had pissed off six people repeatedly and I saw them altogether, I'd **** my pants.

just a personal preference.

[November Rain]

I feel that way too. I always felt like, "how come he could barely beat the villains individually before, but now he can beat a whole team without an insane amount of hassle?" Sinister Six story has always explained it as that their weakness, is not in power, but in teamwork. My only opposing opinion with you, is that I thought that was utilized in "Group Therapy."
Well fair enough. I expected them to fair worse. If that was a normal spidey, they would have nailed him very early on physically. I didn't watch and didn't think they were unravelling as a team. Sure, they weren't perfectly polished but they were all commited.

I would have expected more sabotage from inside via spidey throwing junk around and messing with their heads. The foes he couldn't defeat physically are the ones where he needs peter parker's wit to unravel.

I guess I feel peter parker is as good a weapon as any of his other spidey powers and against the six is the greatest showcase of it. Keeping their minds on what the other apparently said or did to get them to lose focus or even start brawling with one another.

[November Rain]

I saw the egos as more physical, as opposed to verbal. They didn't need to yell at each other to prove they were egotistical. You could see that they were all trying to take out Spidey themselves, but they got in each others way, which is what ultimately defeated them.
I thought the symbiote was just too great a combatant at the end of the day. If a dude's willing to go all out like shocker did or strategise like ock (even though he lacks the ability to block), you really can't fault the group's attempts

[Silver Spider]

I'm not saying the plot device, of their inability to work together, was used perfectly, but I'm saying it was used in a nice way. This could possibly be foreshadowing how this plot device will be used more extensively later on in the series.

[UltimateJustin]

Of course, the "thats how it happend in the comics" argument doesnt work because the comic in question is close to fifty years old and things have changed alot as far as what flys and whats considered too off the wall. I havent read this one, but an image of JJJ in some sort of robot suit comes to mind.

[MattBearPig]

I think it boils down to two things...

1.)Kids have short attention spans and they need to keep throwing out these unique and colorful villains each week to keep their attention.

2.)They want to introduce all of the villains and supporting cast as early as possible so we can see how they develop over time.

[Sarcastic Fan]

I think it boils down to two things...

1.)Kids have short attention spans and they need to keep throwing out these unique and colorful villains each week to keep their attention.

2.)They want to introduce all of the villains and supporting cast as early as possible so we can see how they develop over time.

Option 2, yup. Each of those characters will be back, and developed.

[Venomfan]

why do people keep using the 90's TAS as a defence for a mistake this show made?

[Havok83]

Exactly, this show really is doing at the right time, which is towards the end of the first season.
How about they shouldnt even be doing it at all in the first season. They should just focus on Peter being regular SM and the black suit would be great towards the end of season 2 or even the season 3 opener with Venom as ongoing villian for that season's arc