Kobe today is as good as MJ ever was.

[12 Bladez]

Throwing all accolades, stats and bias out-the-window, and just looking at their individual overall games, what do you guys think? IMO, Kobe's pretty much MJ w/ smaller hands... and with smaller hands comes better handles and shooting touch but not as good a finisher around-the-rim and defender (compared to MJ). Please no flames, just votes and discussion. Thanks.

[The Game]

This thread is now about Ice Cream.........Vanilla is my fav

[Excel]

Ummmm no...Kobe is not even the leagues best or most talented player, but neither he or LeBron can touch MJ back in the day.

[Dodger]

Ummmm no...Kobe is not even the leagues best or most talented player, but neither he or LeBron can touch MJ back in the day.

What? He Just WON the Leagues MVP bro?

But yeah, I love Kobe. I'm huge Laker fan and I'll say it, Nobody will ever be anywhere near what MJ was.

[Immortalfire]

Hahahaha. No.

Michael is the one and only. Kobe is just another player.

[Excel]

What? He Just WON the Leagues MVP bro?

Ok; LeBron leads Kobe in every individual statistcal category. Kobe got the MVP because he has Pau, Lamar, Fish...I dont want to get into it; but championships are a measure of a team, not one player ESPECIALLY in Kobe's case.

[Scooter]

Double post.

[Scooter]

There are definitely flashes of Michael in Kobe. I've love MJ, and I've been a Lakers fan for a long time. Michael Jordan was the man, and he will be for a long time to come.

But there are flashes.

[BlackLantern]

There are flashes of brilliance but until Kobe has 6 rings like MJ, he isn't as good....correction Kobe needs to win 3 rings on his own to be near MJ....and this is coming from a Knicks fan who used to watch MJ come into the Garden on a yearly basis and crush the Knicks....

[Ghostvirus]

Ok if you LA fans are going to overreact, & be retarded. I am going to side with Boston. Stop being stupid.:down:

[rdh007]

Mint Chocolate Chip FTW!

[DarthRekal]

Ok; LeBron leads Kobe in every individual statistcal category. Kobe got the MVP because he has Pau, Lamar, Fish...I dont want to get into it; but championships are a measure of a team, not one player ESPECIALLY in Kobe's case.
typical Celtics fan:whatever:



Kobe had better stats the LAST THREE YEARS.. but didnt get a mention??

so whats your basis for that?


he DIDNT get MVP cause he DIDNT have Pau Lamar and Fish...???


BEFORE Pau got there.. he had the same team as last year and was STILL on top of the WEST....

:o

[DarthRekal]

until Kobe has 6 rings like MJ, he isn't as good....correction Kobe needs to win 3 rings on his own to be near MJ....and this is coming from a Knicks fan who used to watch MJ come into the Garden on a yearly basis and crush the Knicks....
a) thats kinda redundant isnt it.. he has three now.. if he gets THREE more.. ppl will consider those HIS by himself(his team).. and it would also = six :woot:

b) why do you always tell us you're a knick fan... we know.. and whats so special about going into the garden and destroying the Knicks every year... we do that now :oldrazz:
Ok if you LA fans are going to overreact, & be retarded. I am going to side with Boston. Stop being stupid.:down:


there's the MC i know and love :woot:

[12 Bladez]

I know I said forget the stats but I couldn't resist...

Kobe 07-08 Stats (Season/Playoffs thus far)
28.3/31.9 PPG
45.9/50.9 FG% (2000+ attempts)
36.1/29.5 3P% (500+ attempts)
84.0/81.4 FT% (800+ attempts)

Jordan 92-93 (Season/Playoffs)
32.6/35.1 PPG
49.5/47.5 FG% (2500+ attempts)
35.2/38.9 3P% (300+ attempts)
83.7/80.5 FT% (700+ attempts)

So in their respective "primes", MJ scored a bucket or 2 more and was a tad-bit more efficient a scorer. And yet I'd still take Kobe's shot over MJ's; am I in the wrong here or do you guys think Kobe's the (slightly) better shooter too?

I'm sure most of you've seen this already but I thought I'd post here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=74zX6R2qbrs

2:13-2:21 = badass :woot:

[Drizzle]

http://www.zippoc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/lex-luthor-wrong1.jpg

[fu manchu]

The answer, of course, is false. Although, Kobe is one of the best in basketball today, but sometimes he makes some dumb ass decisions. i could never say that about Jordan in his prime.

[Cmill216]

Kobe is the best thing since Michael.

But he's not Michael.

[/Thread]

[zenile]

No one will EVER be more clutch than MJ. That man had ice in his veins. Period.

[Excel]

Oh, someone will...D Wade had ice in his veins during the 2006 finals...LeBron has arguably the most raw talent ever...Kobes at a place where his game cant get much better...

[NewYorkSpider]

Untill Kobe accomplishes all these or comes close, he's not even close with Michael Jordan.

6x NBA Champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_NBA_Finals), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_Finals), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NBA_Finals), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Finals), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_Finals) 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NBA_Finals))
5x NBA MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Most_Valuable_Play er_Award) (1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987-88_NBA_season), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990-91_NBA_season), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991-92_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995-96_NBA_season), 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997-98_NBA_season))
6x NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
1x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award) (1988)
10x All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) Selection (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
1x All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) Selection (1985)
9x NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) Selection (1988-1993, 1996-1998)
1985 NBA Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award)
1985 NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team)
14x NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game) (1985-1993, 1996-1998, 2002-2003)
3x NBA All-Star Game MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_MVP) (1988, 1996, 1998)
2x NBA Slam Dunk Contest winner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_Dunk_Contest#Past_NBA_Slam_Dunk_Contest_champ ions) (1987, 1988)

[Omega Wizard]

Untill Kobe accomplishes all these or comes close, he's not even close with Michael Jordan.
6x NBA Champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_NBA_Finals), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_Finals), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NBA_Finals), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Finals), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_Finals) 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NBA_Finals))
5x NBA MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Most_Valuable_Play er_Award) (1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987-88_NBA_season), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990-91_NBA_season), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991-92_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995-96_NBA_season), 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997-98_NBA_season))
6x NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
1x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award) (1988)
10x All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) Selection (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
1x All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) Selection (1985)
9x NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) Selection (1988-1993, 1996-1998)
1985 NBA Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award)
1985 NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team)
14x NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game) (1985-1993, 1996-1998, 2002-2003)
3x NBA All-Star Game MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_MVP) (1988, 1996, 1998)
2x NBA Slam Dunk Contest winner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_Dunk_Contest#Past_NBA_Slam_Dunk_Contest_champ ions) (1987, 1988)
How can Kobe win the 85 rookie of the year? lol

[Mister J]

I like what Bill Simmons had to say on the matter in his chat today:
It's such an absurd argument that it's not even worth writing about. Kobe has shown flashes of MJ-dom, and he definitely dipped into those waters in the playoffs, but Jordan played at that level for 10 solid years, and he was doing it during an era when players got pounded and they didn't have the hand-check rules. I have written this before but I honestly believe that, if the MJ from '87 to '93 played with the rules in place from '05 to '08, he would have averaged 45 a game.

[LegendaryCaleb]

great post NewYorkSpider and Mister J
MJ is the greatest there ever was IMO
Kobe is excellent and one of the best...but certainly not on MJ's level

[Raiden]

I'm a Kobe fan, but until he won the title by himself, I don't think he's up to MJ's standard yet. However, MJ was 28 when he won his first title, and Kobe's 29 this year. I think if Kobe start leading this Lakers team to not just one, but several titles later, this comparison will become more valid.

[Cmill216]

Thanks for the Bill Simmons ish, J. The man is on point.

Regarding Wade, his finals performance in '06 was the closest I've seen to pure Jordan-esque since #23 retired. I'd go as far as to say Wade's performance in that Finals exceeded anything Jordan did in a particular Finals series. He was that good.

BUT, he's still not in any type of conversation regarding Mike. People must have short ****in' memories, or aren't even aware of what Jordan did during his time. 'Tis a shame.

[Soundwave]

Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain are still the two best players ever.

[Cmill216]

Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain are still the two best players ever.

Wilt Chamberlain is the most overrated individual in the history of professional sports.

[BlackLantern]

IMO it comes down to that specific "it" quality....when MJ stepped onto the court you knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that he was in charge of that floor and that he had it all under control....

I've only seen that quality in Kobe at certain times....

[Cmill216]

People keep bringing up the age thing and everything that Kobe has accomplished in this league before Jordan. Well, of course, this is because Kobe came into the league straight from high school. So when you compare the two, you have to look at what Jordan was doing during his college days, as well. And all he managed to do was hit the winning shot to capture a National Title, nabbed ACC Freshman of the Year, and won the Naismith and the Wooden College Player of the Year awards.

And then he came into the NBA as a rookie......and averaged 28 points per game.

[Ghostvirus]

WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT CLOSED! GAWD! There is no debate.*waves jedi hand*

[BlackLantern]

*stares at Ghostvirus* Something wrong with your hand??

[Excel]

Wilt Chamberlain is the most overrated individual in the history of professional sports.

50 points per game for a season is not over rated. Yeah now a days hed be decent at best, but so?

[Cmill216]

Yeah now a days hed be decent at best, but so?

That's the point.

[Excel]

Is Muhammad Ali overrated? Because Tyson circa 86 woulda ****ed him up.

Look, the argument is moot. Jordan was the most dominant athlete ever in his sport. We would know by now if Kobe was the new MJ, and we know he is not. The only legit question is "Is LeBron the next MJ" and we wont know for good while.

Any other MJ comparison is pointless.

[Cmill216]

Is Muhammad Ali overrated? Because Tyson circa 86 woulda ****ed him up.

Yeah, I call BS on that analogy. Mike Tyson historically had difficulty with tall boxers with good jabs. And considering Ali's speed and technical prowess in comparison to say.....oh, I don't know.....Buster ****in' Douglas.....yeah......

I can't believe you went there.


.....Anywho, my point remains the same. Chamberlain is a legend, but his statistics were incredibly inflated.

[Excel]

Yeah, I call BS on that analogy. Mike Tyson historically had difficulty with tall boxers with good jabs.

Ali was 1/2 inch taller than Mike Spinks. During his first 2 years nothing fazed Tyson. He would have destroyed Ali; Tyson had foreman power with Alis brilliant footwork and speed; he was untouchable. He was too hard to hit and damage and just hit too damn hard.


And considering Ali's speed and technical prowess in comparison to say.....oh, I don't know.....Buster ****in' Douglas.....yeah......

I can't believe you went there.


I didn't say 1990, I said 1986 when Tyson was still fouces and in his prime. Tyson was a bum who lost any sort of boxing mechanics he had when he lost to Douglas. Tyson's technique is nearly flawless in th emid 80's; though when he fought Douglas it was incredibly sloppy.

[Cmill216]

He would have destroyed Ali

Man, I disagree. With Ali's reach and speech and pure technical prowess (all nearly unmatched in boxing), he would've worn Tyson out. As good as Tyson was in his prime, Ali was too quick for Tyson to be able to get his power punches in, and Ali would've jabbed him to death.

...But we're getting off-topic. :hehe:

[Ben Urich]

Kobe Bryant career stats (through age 29): 25.0 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.6 blocks, .453 FG%, .340 3FG%, .839 FT%

Michael Jordan career stats (through age 29): 32.3 points, 6.3 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.7 steals, 1.0 blocks, .516 FG%, .301 3FG%, .846 FT%

It's not even a question. Kobe's great, one of the greatest players to ever play, and probably the best player in the league right now. But Michael is the best ever, and inarguably so.

[DarthRekal]

We would know by now if Kobe was the new MJ, and we know he is not. The only legit question is "Is LeBron the next MJ" and we wont know for good while.


oh i was wondering WHEN the statute of limitations on greatness compared to MJ was...



i shoulda asked Excel to begin with...

tell me Excel... when is the CUTOFF for LBJ... to get SIX RINGS and SIX MVPs???


and if Kobe gets 3 more rings... but he's after your statute?? does that make him ineligible?

[Excel]

Your not giving Tyson due credit. Tyson was extremely quick himself, not so the "wrist flick/slap-with-a-fist type of punches Ali throw constantly, but his bob and weave moves allowed to open up on just about anybody. Liston and Foreman' speed was nothing compared to Mike's. Ali didnt have the size to be able to physically with stand a Tyson beating because the hard this would be too frequent, unlike the Liston or Foreman fights.

Ali would try and wear Tyson down but he would find that, unlike Liston or Foreman, Tyson was far too quick on his feet and good at defense for Alis style to work.

[Cmill216]

Your not giving Tyson due credit.

And I personally don't think you're giving Muhammad Ali his due credit.

But - agree to disagree.

[NewYorkSpider]

Even if Kobe gets 3 more rings it doesn't automatically mean he's next to MJ. It all comes down to stats.

[DarthRekal]

Even if Kobe gets 3 more rings it doesn't automatically mean he's next to MJ. It all comes down to stats.


so... greatness is measured by stats????

hmmm

[Excel]

i shoulda asked Excel to begin with...

tell me Excel... when is the CUTOFF for LBJ... to get SIX RINGS and SIX MVPs???

We'll have to see; LBJ's case right now is very different than Kobes was. Kobe had Shaq; he wasnt even the mvp of his own team. I give LeBron just as much if not more credit for going to the finals last year with that team than I give Kobe for winning 3 rings with Shaq.

and if Kobe gets 3 more rings... but he's after your statute?? does that make him ineligible?

Kobe just flat out aint got the individual statistics to back up a kobe-mj argument. Brining the the championships where MJ won 6 and Kobe 3 with a lot of help doesnt help Kobes argument.

[NewYorkSpider]

so... greatness is measured by stats????

hmmm

Partially. If you go by how many rings somone has won than Robert Horry is one of the greatest to play the game.

[DarthRekal]

We'll have to see; LBJ's case right now is very different than Kobes was. Kobe had Shaq; he wasnt even the mvp of his own team. I give LeBron just as much if not more credit for going to the finals last year with that team than I give Kobe for winning 3 rings with Shaq.



Kobe just flat out aint got the individual statistics to back up a kobe-mj argument. Brining the the championships where MJ won 6 and Kobe 3 with a lot of help doesnt help Kobes argument.


so you're saying with a DILUTED eastern conference.. and the WEST being as HARD as it was for the PAST 5 yrs.... that LBJ gets MORE credit.. for skating... than fighting...???


and you act like MJ didnt have HELP:huh:.. scottie Pippen on the MOST Underrated players ever .. was on his team.. he was a TOP 50 all time for pete's sake..


i believe you are just biased... look.. ima homer i admit it.. i dont think Kobe is as good as MJ.. but you guys are bringing out YOUR OWN RULERS.. and MEASRUING STICKS...


no matter what happens... y'all will always hate...

[DarthRekal]

Partially. If you go by how many rings somone has won than Robert Horry is one of the greatest to play the game.
PARTIALLY???

the EXACT QUOTE was


IT ALL comes down to stats:huh:


point is... if we come and rebutt something.. you guys will give us something else.. not tryin to make you think Kobe is the greatest.. cause i DONT even think he's the GREATEST LAKER... but its just laughable how everyone skews the views to make Kobe look worse than he actually is

[NewYorkSpider]

PARTIALLY???

the EXACT QUOTE was


IT ALL comes down to stats:huh:


Who cares what I said. Winning championships doesn't automatically make you great. If Kobe averages 15 points per game in his next 3 finals(if they make them) does that mean he's MJ? Kobe is an outstanding player and will be in the HoF, but winning the same amount of championships that MJ has doesn't mean he's the next MJ.


point is... if we come and rebutt something.. you guys will give us something else.. not tryin to make you think Kobe is the greatest.. cause i DONT even think he's the GREATEST LAKER... but its just laughable how everyone skews the views to make Kobe look worse than he actually is

I never said that Kobe was a horrible player

[DarthRekal]

Who cares what I said. Winning Championships doesn't automaticcaly make you great. If Kobe averages 15 points per game in his next 3 finals(if they make them) does that mean he's MJ? Kobe is an outstanding player and will be in the HoF, but winning the same amount of championships that MJ has doesn't mean he's the next MJ.
what if he averages more rebounds and more assists and steals than MJ did in same said finals.. will you hold the points scored against him.. i think so...


I NEVER said chips make players great.. cause then RUSSELL would trump MJ

I never said that Kobe was a horrible player

no but it seems that no you per se.. but the prevailing opinion is to DOWNPLAY his accomplishments.. such as his FIRST 3 chips... as being Horry esque... yet when Shaq "Horry'd" his way to a ring in 06... he got credit for it and it came back as Kobe was riding his coatails... im not singling you out.. but you did change when i asked if STATs were all that mattered... cause then Wilt comes into play... and not MJ... so you have to define you GREATNESS scale and keep it CONSTANT.. and not grade Kobe on a curve...

[NewYorkSpider]

what if he averages more rebounds and more assists and steals than MJ did in same said finals.. will you hold the points scored against him.. i think so...

No. This means Kobe became more of a team player than MJ and a better teammate. Then you could compare season/playoff stats between the two and find out who was better. Can Kobe become better than MJ? Absoutely. Is he on pace to be compared to MJ. Absolutely.


I NEVER said chips make players great.. cause then RUSSELL would trump MJ

Good.


no but it seems that no you per se.. but the prevailing opinion is to DOWNPLAY his accomplishments.. such as his FIRST 3 chips... as being Horry esque... yet when Shaq "Horry'd" his way to a ring in 06... he got credit for it and it came back as Kobe was riding his coatails... im not singling you out.. but you did change when i asked if STATs were all that mattered... cause then Wilt comes into play... and not MJ... so you have to define you GREATNESS scale and keep it CONSTANT.. and not grade Kobe on a curve...


I think Kobe is a tremendous athelte and player. I honestly didn't mean it was all about stats. I was simply implying that if someone has won this many championships, that stats is all comes down to weather or not you're great and deserve to be a HoF. I've heard mixed arguements about Robert Horry(7 championships)/Steve Kerr(5 championships) are Hall of Fame worthy. Kobe is already a HoF without a shadow of a doubt.

[Excel]

so you're saying with a DILUTED eastern conference.. and the WEST being as HARD as it was for the PAST 5 yrs.... that LBJ gets MORE credit.. for skating... than fighting...???

Replace Shaq on those teams with todays Zydrunas Illgauskus. Seriously, do they even make the playoffs?

and you act like MJ didnt have HELP:huh:.. scottie Pippen on the MOST Underrated players ever .. was on his team.. he was a TOP 50 all time for pete's sake..

Of course MJ had help, but not always. He was the games best player statistically in his day until he got help, then he became the games greatest player of all time. Now you see the possible MJ-LeBron scenario.

i believe you are just biased... look.. ima homer i admit it.. i dont think Kobe is as good as MJ.. but you guys are bringing out YOUR OWN RULERS.. and MEASRUING STICKS...


no matter what happens... y'all will always hate...

Im not biased and I like Kobe. I defended him during the his rape trial, love watching him play, and wish all the success in the world (unless hes playing the celtics) but numbers are numbers. They dont lie. Kobe is not even the best player statistically intodays game, thats LeBron.


Stats: Minutes..PPG..APG..RPG..FG%..SPG..BPG
Kobe: 38.53...28.3...5.4...6.3..45.9...1.8.. .5
LeBron: 40.23...30.0...7.2...7.9..48.4...1.8...1.1

LeBron leads Kobe in every major category. Shots per game show Kobe takes 20.8 shots per game while LeBron takes 21.8 shots per game. Lets talk consistancy.

Kobe - 82 games
- 68 games over 20 points
- 54 games over 25 points
- 37 games over 30 points
- 16 games over 35 points
- 7 games over 40 points
- 20 double-doubles
- 0 triple-doubles

LeBron - 75 games (played 7 less games than Kobe)
- 69 games over 20 points
- 59 games over 25 points
- 38 games over 30 points
- 18 games over 35 points
- 7 games over 40 points
- 29 double-doubles
- 7 triple-doubles

LeBron misses 7 more games than Kobe did but still was more consistant :rolleyes:

There is no argument, LeBron was the NBA's best player last year.

[12 Bladez]

If we're talking pure stats, either Oscar or Wilt is the greatest NBA player of all time. \discussion

If it's complete body of work (stats, rings, MVPs, etc.), Kareem or MJ is the greatest ever. \discussion

I'm not talking about any of that here. What I'm asking is simple: Is Kobe's game right now on par w/ prime MJ's (specifically early 90's)? I myself would have to say yes (or 'true'). I believe he's a better shooter than MJ and when his shot's ON, more dangerous than any other player under 7' EVER. MJ edges Kobe out on D, but again, when both of them are on their respective games, I would have to give Kobe the slight edge on offense.

Am I saying Kobe > MJ? F NO!!!

What I am saying? Kobe's game today = MJ's game yesterday

And even if seeing it w/ your own eyes' not enough, by all means compare 07-08 Kobe v. 92-93 MJ stats...

(thanks for the posts all)

[hitmanyr2k]

The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument has always been garbage to me. Kobe didn't start getting more prominent until the 2nd and 3rd title runs. LA's first championship in 2000 Kobe was inconsistent as hell but he had a monster HOF center putting up 30+ points and 15+ boards so it didn't really matter.

Kobe averaged 21 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 43% shooting (75% from the foul line) during the 2000 playoffs that year. Decent but nothing more than a rising star.

In the 2000 Finals he averaged a meager 16 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 36% shooting. If Jordan won his first ring with those numbers he would have hung himself...seriously. Lucky for Kobe he had a beast named Shaq putting up 38ppg, 16 rebs, and 4 assists while shooting 60% in the Finals. Imagine if Lebron had one of those last year. He'd be wearing jewelry right now. So yeah, Kobe got rings early in his career...good for him. Does that put him on Jordan's level? Hell no. Jordan did his thing as the Alpha dog at a high level for so long it became routine and people took it for granted. The guy is a legend and rightfully so.

In martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He transcended his sport. Kobe is Bruce Li...a spinoff of a legend. Bruce Li could imitate Lee's moves and mannerisms (just like Kobe does with Jordan's moves, mannerisims, and swagger) but at the end of the day we all know we're watching a 2nd rate imitation no matter how good of a show they put on.

[Soundwave]

The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument has always been garbage to me. Kobe didn't start getting more prominent until the 2nd and 3rd title runs. LA's first championship in 2000 Kobe was inconsistent as hell but he had a monster HOF center putting up 30+ points and 15+ boards so it didn't really matter.

Kobe averaged 21 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 43% shooting (75% from the foul line) during the 2000 playoffs that year. Decent but nothing more than a rising star.

In the 2000 Finals he averaged a meager 16 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 36% shooting. If Jordan won his first ring with those numbers he would have hung himself...seriously. Lucky for Kobe he had a beast named Shaq putting up 38ppg, 16 rebs, and 4 assists while shooting 60% in the Finals. Imagine if Lebron had one of those last year. He'd be wearing jewelry right now. So yeah, Kobe got rings early in his career...good for him. Does that put him on Jordan's level? Hell no. Jordan did his thing as the Alpha dog at a high level for so long it became routine and people took it for granted. The guy is a legend and rightfully so.

In martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He transcended his sport. Kobe is Bruce Li...a spinoff of a legend. Bruce Li could imitate Lee's moves and mannerisms (just like Kobe does with Jordan's moves, mannerisims, and swagger) but at the end of the day we all know we're watching a 2nd rate imitation no matter how good of a show they put on.


Go back and watch Game 4 of the 2000 Finals and then tell me that Kobe had little to do with the Lakers winning that championship.

[kane9321]

Kobe bryant will never be like MJ...... EVER

[November Rain]

I'm in the tyson busting ali's face open back then, boxing was a whole new ball game in the 80s and even then tyson was something else completely. clean and deadly. A machine.

[hitmanyr2k]

Go back and watch Game 4 of the 2000 Finals and then tell me that Kobe had little to do with the Lakers winning that championship.

One good game in the Finals...big deal. The next game Kobe shoots 4-20 and scores 8 points. That's the whole point. Kobe was inconsistent as hell during that playoff run. He mixed good games with horrible ones. Similar to Lebron now his jumpshot was erratic. The Lakers didn't need Kobe anywhere near his best to win playoff games or to win a title that year. In contrast the Bulls ALWAYS needed Jordan at his very best to win and year after year Jordan delivered. There's no comparison here. The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument is garbage and always has been. Kobe had the luxury of a HOF center sucking in double and triple-teams allowing him to go one on one the majority of the time. Kobe wouldn't even have been in the playoffs back then without Shaq.

[Nakon]

No he isn't.

Michael is one of the best if not the best of all-time. There both great awesome players for sure though.

CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS PER GAME
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 CHI 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 2.0 4.5 6.5 5.9 2.39 .84 3.55 3.50 28.2
85-86 CHI 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 1.3 2.3 3.6 2.9 2.06 1.17 2.50 2.60 22.7
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.1 5.3 6.4 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1
92-93 CHI 78 78 39.3 .495 .352 .837 1.7 5.0 6.7 5.5 2.83 .78 2.65 2.40 32.6
94-95 CHI 17 17 39.3 .411 .500 .801 1.5 5.4 6.9 5.3 1.76 .76 2.06 2.80 26.9
95-96 CHI 82 82 37.7 .495 .427 .834 1.8 4.8 6.6 4.3 2.20 .51 2.40 2.40 30.4
96-97 CHI 82 82 37.9 .486 .374 .833 1.4 4.5 5.9 4.3 1.71 .54 2.02 1.90 29.6
97-98 CHI 82 82 38.8 .465 .238 .784 1.6 4.2 5.8 3.5 1.72 .55 2.26 1.80 28.7
01-02 WAS 60 53 34.9 .416 .189 .790 .8 4.8 5.7 5.2 1.42 .43 2.70 2.00 22.9
02-03 WAS 82 67 37.0 .445 .291 .821 .9 5.2 6.1 3.8 1.50 .48 2.11 2.10 20.0
Career 1072 1039 38.3 .497 .327 .835 1.6 4.7 6.2 5.3 2.35 .80 2.73 2.60 30.1
Playoff 179 179 41.8 .487 .332 .828 1.7 4.7 6.4 5.7 2.10 .88 3.05 3.00 33.4
All-Star 13 13 29.4 .472 .273 .750 1.7 3.0 4.7 4.2 2.85 .46 3.23 2.40 20.2


CAREER TOTALS
REBOUNDS
YEAR TEAM G GS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
84-85 CHI 82 82 3,144 837-1,625 9-52 630-746 167 367 534 481 196 69 291 285 2,313
85-86 CHI 18 7 451 150-328 3-18 105-125 23 41 64 53 37 21 45 46 408
86-87 CHI 82 82 3,281 1,098-2,279 12-66 833-972 166 264 430 377 236 125 272 237 3,041
87-88 CHI 82 82 3,311 1,069-1,998 7-53 723-860 139 310 449 485 259 131 252 270 2,868
88-89 CHI 81 81 3,255 966-1,795 27-98 674-793 149 503 652 650 234 65 290 247 2,633
89-90 CHI 82 82 3,197 1,034-1,964 92-245 593-699 143 422 565 519 227 54 247 241 2,753
90-91 CHI 82 82 3,034 990-1,837 29-93 571-671 118 374 492 453 223 83 202 229 2,580
91-92 CHI 80 80 3,102 943-1,818 27-100 491-590 91 420 511 489 182 75 200 201 2,404
92-93 CHI 78 78 3,067 992-2,003 81-230 476-569 135 387 522 428 221 61 207 188 2,541
94-95 CHI 17 17 668 166-404 16-32 109-136 25 92 117 90 30 13 35 47 457
95-96 CHI 82 82 3,090 916-1,850 111-260 548-657 148 395 543 352 180 42 197 195 2,491
96-97 CHI 82 82 3,106 920-1,892 111-297 480-576 113 369 482 352 140 44 166 156 2,431
97-98 CHI 82 82 3,181 881-1,893 30-126 565-721 130 345 475 283 141 45 185 151 2,357
01-02 WAS 60 53 2,093 551-1,324 10-53 263-333 50 289 339 310 85 26 162 119 1,375
02-03 WAS 82 67 3,031 679-1,527 16-55 266-324 71 426 497 311 123 39 173 171 1,640
Career 1072 1039 41,011 12,192-24,537 581-1,778 7,327-8,772 1,668 5,004 6,672 5,633 2,514 893 2,924 2,783 32,292
Playoff 179 179 7,474 2,188-4,497 148-446 1,463-1,766 305 847 1,152 1,022 376 158 546 541 5,987
All-Star 13 13 382 110-233 3-11 39-52 22 39 61 54 37 6 42 31 262


CAREER TRANSACTIONS
Selected after junior season by the Chicago Bulls in the first round (third pick overall) of the 1984 NBA Draft....Announced retirement on 10/6/93....Activated from retirement on 3/18/95....Announced retirement on 1/13/99....Activated from retirement on 9/25/01....Signed as a free agent with the Washington Wizards on 9/25/01.



Season Highs / Career Highs
2002-03 HIGHS CAREER HIGHS
Points 45 vs. New Orleans 02/01/03 69 @ Cleveland 03/28/90
Field Goals Made 18 2 Times 27 vs. Orlando 01/16/93
Field Goals Attempted 33 vs. New Orleans 02/01/03 49 vs. Orlando 01/16/93
Three Point Field Goals Made 3 2 Times 7 vs. Golden State 01/18/90
Three Point Field Goals Attempted 4 vs. Indiana 01/04/03 12 vs. Golden State 01/18/90
Free Throws Made 13 @ New York 03/09/03 26 vs. New Jersey 02/26/87
Free Throws Attempted 16 @ Detroit 12/04/02 27 vs. New Jersey 02/26/87
Offensive Rebounds 5 @ New York 01/11/03 8 4 Times
Defensive Rebounds 13 @ Atlanta 04/03/03 14 @ New Jersey 03/16/96
Total Rebounds 14 @ Atlanta 04/03/03 18 2 Times
Assists 12 @ L.A. Clippers 02/12/03 17 @ Portland 03/24/89
Steals 6 @ Detroit 12/04/02 10 vs. New Jersey 01/29/88
Blocks 3 @ Miami 03/02/03 6 @ Seattle 12/02/86
Minutes Played 53 vs. Indiana 01/04/03 56 @ Utah 02/03/92



Look at those awesome stats. :)

[Soundwave]

One good game in the Finals...big deal. The next game Kobe shoots 4-20 and scores 8 points. That's the whole point. Kobe was inconsistent as hell during that playoff run. He mixed good games with horrible ones. Similar to Lebron now his jumpshot was erratic. The Lakers didn't need Kobe anywhere near his best to win playoff games or to win a title that year. In contrast the Bulls ALWAYS needed Jordan at his very best to win and year after year Jordan delivered. There's no comparison here. The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument is garbage and always has been. Kobe had the luxury of a HOF center sucking in double and triple-teams allowing him to go one on one the majority of the time. Kobe wouldn't even have been in the playoffs back then without Shaq.

You do make excellent points but if you remember that year, Kobe was injured during the Finals with a bum ankle. He missed most of Game 2 and all of Game 3 in the Finals that year. They won Game 2 and lost in Game 3. And in Game 4, after Shaq fouled out Kobe completely took the game over in OT and single-handedly won that game. If Kobe doesn't have that performance the Pacers win and tie the series at 2 and you never know what could happen at that point. Yes his shooting percentage wasn't very high, but what player is gonna shoot well on a bad ankle? You're going to have inconsistency when you're injured. Just look at Manu Ginobli during this year's playoffs.

Yeah Shaq was the most dominant force in the league back then, but Kobe was the "closer" on that team. They would not even give Shaq the ball in crunch time on several occasions because of his poor free throw shooting. Kobe and Robert Horry were making all the cluth shots for them. Kobe wouldn't have won 3 rings without Shaq, but Shaq wouldn't have won them without Kobe either.

MJ is still the best we've ever seen but Kobe's talent and his clutch play is comparable to His Airness.

[Humphrey Bogart]

KB is a great player. But he is just now even approaching the level where Jordan resided for 10 years. KB is more comparable to Jordan circa 95-98, more reliant on the jumpshot and choosing his spots. No player has, and probably ever will approach what Jordan did 87-92. Here is a statistical side by side comparison.

http://www.kb24overrated.com/statistical_comparison_pt_i
http://www.kb24overrated.com/statistical_comparison_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/game_by_game_performance
http://www.kb24overrated.com/game_by_game_performance_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/season_by_season_performance_pt_i
http://www.kb24overrated.com/season_by_season_performance_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/in-depth_statistics

As you will see, Jordan operated at freakish level of efficiency. Its not really all that close.

[Mister J]

kb24overrated.com :lmao:

[Humphrey Bogart]

kb24overrated.com :lmao:

The title does suggest bias, but I have cross-checked the stats with basketball reference.com and nba.com. I posted it for simplicity's sake lol.

[The Game]

I'm in the tyson busting ali's face open back then, boxing was a whole new ball game in the 80s and even then tyson was something else completely. clean and deadly. A machine.

Ali would mangle him

[Erzengel]

I think Kobe has allegedly raped more girls than Jordan. :up:

[DarthRekal]

I think Kobe has allegedly raped more girls than Jordan. :up:
that we know of :whatever:

[November Rain]

does anyone feel that the general higher expectancy of sports in this day and age makes it harder for people to shine in comparison to yesteryear.

surely kobe must be going up against a higher calibre of players than perhaps jordan was?

[Excel]

I know its bias, but this is very true-

http://www.kb24overrated.com/2008_mvp_race_kobe_vs_lebron

I think Kobe has allegedly raped more girls than Jordan. :up:

Hes Kobe, he doesnt need to rape anybody. Some chick wanted it and than regreted and called the cops looking for a payday :down

[12 Bladez]

If you want to compare stats, at least do it right! Take away Kobe's first 3 seasons to account for MJ's college years and only look at MJ's first 9 years in the league. And go from there...

Kobe's 1999-2008 Stats
28.3 PPG
45.5 FG%
33.1 3P%
84.1 FT%
5.9 RPG
5.3 APG
1.7 SPG
0.6 BPG
3.2 TO

Jordan's 1984-1993 Stats
32.3 PPG
51.2 FG%
24.9 3P%
84.5 FT%
6.1 RPG
5.6 APG
2.7 SPG
1.0 BPG
3.0 TO

So according to the stats, Kobe is the better 3-pt shooter but MJ is the better scorer and defender (supposedly). However, MJ played in a league where a flagrant foul was ball-out or 2 free-throws as opposed to an ejection/suspension; this makes MJ's stats on offense that much more impressive, but his stats on D takes a hit because he obviously was allowed to play tougher D than Kobe. Thus MJ>Kobe on offense (except 3-pointers) may be more true than MJ>Kobe on D. Again, this is all stats; without stats and just looking at their individual games though, when both their shots are going, I'll take Kobe>MJ on offense. But every other day, it's got to be MJ.

[Bim]

Tss not in my book, Kobe isnt anywhere near the player MJ was

[omid17]

Stephan A. Smith interview Kobe and asked about comparisons to MJ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q4Epu-7ITO4

[DarthRekal]

MJ doesnt let his team lose a 24 point lead in the Finals...



/THREAD!

[omid17]

MJ doesnt let his team lose a 24 point lead in the Finals...



/THREAD!word :(

[12 Bladez]

Sad game for Kobe but this was a team loss...

[DarthRekal]

Sad game for Kobe but this was a team loss...


you didnt watch the game did you.. forced shots.. missed layup... thats NOT an MVP

[Excel]

you didnt watch the game did you.. forced shots.. missed layup... thats NOT an MVP

Yall slogan in L.A. should be "LeBron wouldnt miss" :up:

[12 Bladez]

you didnt watch the game did you.. forced shots.. missed layup... thats NOT an MVP
I watched and I'm still at the FS Grill. Lakers didn't need Kobe until it was too late when the Celts were already rolling. Some times you can blame it on Kobe, not this one though, every Laker disappeared on him at half-time.

[DarthRekal]

I watched and I'm still at the FS Grill. Lakers didn't need Kobe until it was too late when the Celts were already rolling. Some times you can blame it on Kobe, not this one though, every Laker disappeared on him at half-time.


point is.. if he REALLY was that great... wouldnt he have carried us???:huh:

[12 Bladez]

point is.. if he REALLY was that great... wouldnt he have carried us???:huh:
Even MJ couldn't do it every night (see: 88-90 Pistons-Bulls series)

[Excel]

Heres the deal-playoffs are what makes great players. It was clear LeBron had officially made the jump from "gonna amazing player" to "amazing player" last year in game 6 against Detroit.

In 2006 it was clear Wade from rising star to star is born.

2008 have made Pierce into a Boston Legend.

But on topic...Kobe...where is shaq when you need him?

[DarthRekal]

Heres the deal-playoffs are what makes great players. It was clear LeBron had officially made the jump from "gonna amazing player" to "amazing player" last year in game 6 against Detroit.

In 2006 it was clear Wade from rising star to star is born.

2008 have made Pierce into a Boston Legend.

But on topic...Kobe...where is shaq when you need him?
wait... how can you argue.. Lebron is a star cause of 07???


but Kobe did the exact same thing Lebron did last year... except he WON a game in the finals...

but yeah.. where is SNAQ:csad:

[Excel]

Look, reguardless of whose won, this has been an EPIC series.. game was tense, game 2 with that comeback, game 3 was back n 4th...and tonight.

wait... how can you argue.. Lebron is a star cause of 07???


but Kobe did the exact same thing Lebron did last year... except he WON a game in the finals...

but yeah.. where is SNAQ:csad:

Until the detrogame last year, Lebron was the "nasty player who is gonna be a great one". That game made it clear he was already there. Wade was in a similar stance.

Championships, I always say, are a measure of a team, not a single player, but the games that make up those championships can be dominated by a player. I havent seen kobe do it.

[DarthRekal]

Look, reguardless of whose won, this has been an EPIC series.. game was tense, game 2 with that comeback, game 3 was back n 4th...and tonight.



Until the detrogame last year, Lebron was the "nasty player who is gonna be a great one". That game made it clear he was already there. Wade was in a similar stance.

Championships, I always say, are a measure of a team, not a single player, but the games that make up those championships can be dominated by a player. I havent seen kobe do it.
you lost me altogether... :huh: i dont even know what you;re talkin about anymore... this series.. a game or what.. LOL.. sorry


i dont think anyone thought LeBron would NOT be GREAT... at least the realists anyway.. but what does any of this have to do with Kobe suckin compared to MJ :huh:

[Excel]

Teams win championships. Teams get to the playoffs, teams win in them. However, the championships are made up of 7 games, and in some of those games, players take over when the team cant get it done; cant finish it off. Wade did it. LeBron did it in the ecfs. When will Kobe do it?

[DarthRekal]

Teams win championships. Teams get to the playoffs, teams win in them. However, the championships are made up of 7 games, and in some of those games, players take over when the team cant get it done; cant finish it off. Wade did it. LeBron did it in the ecfs. When will Kobe do it?
see there you go.. changing your standards for Lebron.. but not holding Kobe to them... Kobe has done it in the WCF NUMEROUS times.. even when SHAQ was here.. he CARRIED Shaq before.. go look at the tapes...

Kobe is the SPURS KILLER... period... so dont give Lebron MORE credit.. for something Kobe has already done.. the Wade argument you got... LBJ.. has yet to win a ship... so i think its best you leave him out of it

[omid17]

see there you go.. changing your standards for Lebron.. but not holding Kobe to them... Kobe has done it in the WCF NUMEROUS times.. even when SHAQ was here.. he CARRIED Shaq before.. go look at the tapes...

Kobe is the SPURS KILLER... period... so dont give Lebron MORE credit.. for something Kobe has already done.. the Wade argument you got... LBJ.. has yet to win a ship... so i think its best you leave him out of it:up: agreed

[Excel]

tell me your opinion...if you have lebron instead of kobe tonight...who wins?

[DarthRekal]

tell me your opinion...if you have lebron instead of kobe tonight...who wins?
dont know.. Lebron hasnt shown me enough "clutch" yet....

why didnt he beat the Spurs?? he lost to this SAME celtics team... so theres no way to really tell.. in all honesty.. knowing what i know now.. i would take my chance with LBJ... but thats all SUBJECTIVE.... when you give your facts... you always skew them for LBJ.... you were talking about ship series... but then said LBJ qualifies cause of the ECF... but Kobe doesnt... they BOTH have yet to carry a team to a ship.. and i m sure if Kobe does it next year.. the "he has a better team" folx will come out and still not give him props.. all im saying it be fair... if hes.. NOT better hes not... god knows im not THE biggest Kobe supporter anymore.. but give the man his props

[Excel]

dont know.. Lebron hasnt shown me enough "clutch" yet....

why didnt he beat the Spurs?? he lost to this SAME celtics team... so theres no way to really tell.. in all honesty.. knowing what i know now.. i would take my chance with LBJ... but thats all SUBJECTIVE.... when you give your facts... you always skew them for LBJ.... you were talking about ship series... but then said LBJ qualifies cause of the ECF... but Kobe doesnt... they BOTH have yet to carry a team to a ship.. and i m sure if Kobe does it next year.. the "he has a better team" folx will come out and still not give him props.. all im saying it be fair... if hes.. NOT better hes not... god knows im not THE biggest Kobe supporter anymore.. but give the man his props

well dude, you cant really deny that he has the better team...even when they lost to boston in game 7, lebron was insane. had anybody else shown up to play from the cavs in game 7, the celts wouldnt have advanced.

[DarthRekal]

well dude, you cant really deney that he has the better team...even when they lost to boston in game 7, lebron was insane. had anybody else shown up to play from the cavs in game 7, the celts wouldnt have advanced.
no doubt... but diff circumstances.... you cant deny that either.. im sure.. if the Celts.. we pumped up just as much and they had RAY ALLEN and Powe.. blow up... im sure it wouldnt have been close...

im not saying KOBE shouldnt have carried this series.. for gods sakes dude... i WISH he had... all im saying is Kobe carried a subpar .. choke tendency team(as you see now)... to the playoffs.. in the UBER tough WEST and ALMOST knocked of the HIGHLY explosive Suns.. the past two years... so he has done stuff on his own too... thats my point.. always factoids and tidbits AGAINST him.. never see the things FOR him

[Excel]

True...Kobe is nasty, no doubt. Whatever, they both great players who no doubt gonna have great future :up:

[DarthRekal]

True...Kobe is nasty, no doubt. Whatever, they both great players who no doubt gonna have great future :up:
i'll still trade Kobe for lebron straight up :oldrazz:

what he would do with THIS team...
:csad:

[omid17]

True...Kobe is nasty, no doubt. Whatever, they both great players who no doubt gonna have great future :up:i just hope we get to see the Lakers play the Cavs in the NBA Finals one day

[DarthRekal]

i just hope we get to see the Lakers play the Cavs in the NBA Finals one day


NOooo.... i want LBJ to get traded or go to the Knicks.. and LA v NY :up::woot:

[omid17]

NOooo.... i want LBJ to get traded or go to the Knicks.. and LA v NY :up::woot:that would be good too :woot:

[ih8nyy]

Ok if you LA fans are going to overreact, & be retarded. I am going to side with Boston. Stop being stupid.:down:

Well, siding with Boston would make you a winner.

[ih8nyy]

NOooo.... i want LBJ to get traded or go to the Knicks.. and LA v NY :up::woot:

He'd go to the Nets first if he can as UFA. He and Jay-Z are tight.

Lakers really picked the wrong time to fold last night.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Thanks for the Bill Simmons ish, J. The man is on point.

Regarding Wade, his finals performance in '06 was the closest I've seen to pure Jordan-esque since #23 retired. I'd go as far as to say Wade's performance in that Finals exceeded anything Jordan did in a particular Finals series. He was that good.

BUT, he's still not in any type of conversation regarding Mike. People must have short ****in' memories, or aren't even aware of what Jordan did during his time. 'Tis a shame.

We are prisoners of the moment. Not only that but anyone younger than say....23-25ish has no idea what Jordan really did. Not to mention that the talent level now in the NBA does not compare to the 80's through the early/mid 90's.

The 80's was quite possibly the best era of basketball ever. Jordan did it against loads and loads of tough, talented, hard ass, dirty, skilled and high basketball IQ players.

You didn't see any pussy ass flopping trying to get a call or three step traveling allowed. Hell no, guys killed each other back then. It was still basketball. Now it's pussy footing tiddly winks.

No comparison ever.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

He'd go to the Nets first if he can as UFA. He and Jay-Z are tight.

Lakers really picked the wrong time to fold last night.

No, he will go to NY or LA. He gets millions more from Nike if he does.

[Raiden]

I'm a Kobe fan, but I don't think he's as good as MJ yet. MJ won't put on a mediocre performance in the Finals, and Kobe unfortunately did just that this year. Kobe should make his teammates better, but when the chips are down he needs to put the team on his back, which he hasn't shown that he's capable of.

[Mister J]

It's inarguable that Mamba is a great player and that a plaque of his big head will one day grace Springfield, but after his performance in the Finals (if not his last two Finals), this **** about being anywhere near as good as Mike never needs to be raised again.

[omid17]

I'm a Kobe fan, but I don't think he's as good as MJ yet. MJ won't put on a mediocre performance in the Finals, and Kobe unfortunately did just that this year. Kobe should make his teammates better, but when the chips are down he needs to put the team on his back, which he hasn't shown that he's capable of.agreed

[12 Bladez]

I'm a Kobe fan, but I don't think he's as good as MJ yet. MJ won't put on a mediocre performance in the Finals, and Kobe unfortunately did just that this year. Kobe should make his teammates better, but when the chips are down he needs to put the team on his back, which he hasn't shown that he's capable of.
You watch Laker games? Sure he hasn't done it in the Finals as of late but the Laker collapse was as much a Kobe thing as it was ever other Laker. Bottomline, it came down to Kobe v. 3 other Hall of Famers. MJ was the man but I don't think he could've carried his team past 3 All-Stars AND not to mention the league's best D focused solely on him. The Lakers folded on Kobe.

It's inarguable that Mamba is a great player and that a plaque of his big head will one day grace Springfield, but after his performance in the Finals (if not his last two Finals), this **** about being anywhere near as good as Mike never needs to be raised again.
Again, going up against 3 All-Stars and the best D in the league would stop anyone, even MJ. Plus Kobe's Lakers tapped-out, especially Odom and Gasol; Pippen and Grant/Rodman would never lay-down. Hell, give Kobe a Pippen alone (instead of Odom & Gasol) and Boston goes down. No Kobe = MJ but Odom/Gasol definitely aren't in the same league as Pippen/Rodman either.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

You watch Laker games? Sure he hasn't done it in the Finals as of late but the Laker collapse was as much a Kobe thing as it was ever other Laker. Bottomline, it came down to Kobe v. 3 other Hall of Famers. MJ was the man but I don't think he could've carried his team past 3 All-Stars AND not to mention the league's best D focused solely on him. The Lakers folded on Kobe.


Again, going up against 3 All-Stars and the best D in the league would stop anyone, even MJ. Plus Kobe's Lakers tapped-out, especially Odom and Gasol; Pippen and Grant/Rodman would never lay-down. Hell, give Kobe a Pippen alone (instead of Odom & Gasol) and Boston goes down. No Kobe = MJ but Odom/Gasol definitely aren't in the same league as Pippen/Rodman either.

You're trippin. That is exactly why Kobe is not on MJ's level. Because he couldn't put them on his back in the finals.

That is why Kobe is not MJ because MJ figured out how to finally get past the bad boys and the lakers back then. Plus Jordan got knocked down on the regular like Lebron did this playoffs. MJ played against much better competition.