Discussion: Gay Rights

[Carter]

The image in my head is hilarious.
Pink Panthers, lol

[Wilhelm-Scream]

LOL theres a bar in london called stone walls open all nigth thats a gay lace, al out students go there when we get chucked out of our SUWhat is th^t, Sanskrit?

[Erzengel]

Swab the deck sailor.

http://sperone.free.fr/images/extraz/PICS3/AmericanGayArmy.jpg

[kane9321]

Yeah like those bad driving asians. Ugh.


Oh god ..i wanna make a joke ..but I... cant:down

[Emrys]

What's up your butt?

Oh wait,.....

You want to know what's up my butt? I'm scared, if fear for my best friends, I fear that one day someone will come along and take away the person they love the most. I fear that they will have to hide again because some conservative *******s think they have a god given right to treat them like animals. I fear that one day I will get a phone call and one of them will tell me that their loved one is lying in a hospital fighting for his live because someone though it would be cool to show "them ****" their place and I'm angry because I know that this is exactly what all those conservative groups deep down want. A blanket excuse to make others lives miserable because they don't fit into their "perfect little world"

In essence that's what's "up my butt" but I wager such a brilliant comedian like you is unable to understand that.

[Erzengel]

C'mon do it kane...all your friends are doing it....you wanna be coold don't you?

[Kritish]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Mrslave.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6b/Gerbil.JPG/800px-Gerbil.JPG

[Kritish]

Swab the deck sailor.

http://sperone.free.fr/images/extraz/PICS3/AmericanGayArmy.jpg

I don't want any seamen on my poop deck. :eek:

[Daisy]

Swab the deck sailor.

http://sperone.free.fr/images/extraz/PICS3/AmericanGayArmy.jpg

God I love sailors. :O

[kane9321]

C'mon do it kane...all your friends are doing it....you wanna be coold don't you?

lol:up:

[Erzengel]

You want to know what's up my butt? I'm scared, if fear for my best friends, I fear that one day someone will come along and take away the person they love the most. I fear that they will have to hide again because some conservative *******s think they have a god given right to treat them like animals. I fear that one day I will get a phone call and one of them will tell me that their loved one is lying in a hospital fighting for his live because someone though it would be cool to show "them ****" their place and I'm angry because I know that this is exactly what all those conservative groups deep down want. A blanket excuse to make others lives miserable because they don't fit into their "perfect little world"

In essence that's what's "up my butt" but I wager such a brilliant comedian like you is unable to understand that.

Wow what a small microcosm you live in. You don't think that other people of different nationality, ethnicities fear the same thing and anybody here could not relate to that?

[Carter]

Theres no way Emrys didn't know that this would be comic gold.

[Super Flight]

i got a question... if we see them braking the law could citizens be a loud to beat them up and drag them to the police station

JUSTICE HAS BE SEVRED!! LOL!

[Kritish]

Like prison is dangerous enough for my rectum...

Just wait till I get dragged to jail my the fab five...

[Daisy]

i got a question... if we see them braking the law could citizens be a loud to beat them up and drag them to the police station

JUSTICE HAS BE SEVRED!! LOL!

:( :( :(

"I have a question... if we see them breaking the law, could citizens be allowed to beat them up and drag them to the police station?

JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED!"

...not to mention the missing pronoun referent. :(

I'm sorry, reading that one just hurt me too much not to say something. :(

[Erzengel]

Truly, the most oppressed people in the land aren't the blacks or gays. It's the people who abuse grammar and spelling. :(

[Super Flight]

:( :( :(

"I have a question... if we see them breaking the law, could citizens be allowed to beat them up and drag them to the police station?

JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED!"

...not to mention the missing pronoun referent. :(

I'm sorry, reading that one just hurt me too much not to say something. :(

:(....i'm sawwy

[U.S War Machine]

They gonna be armed with piener guns

[Wilhelm-Scream]

:( :( :(

"I have a question... if we see them breaking the law, could citizens be allowed to beat them up and drag them to the police station?

JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED!"

...not to mention the missing pronoun referent. :(

I'm sorry, reading that one just hurt me too much not to say something. :(Don't be sorry. He should be sorry. A banning may be in order.

[Kritish]

Truly, the most oppressed people in the land aren't the blacks or gays. It's the people who abuse grammar and spelling. :(

Spell Power! :mad:

[Emrys]

Wow what a small microcosm you live in. You don't think that other people of different nationality, ethnicities fear the same thing and anybody here could not relate to that?

Hmmm judging by the replies in here I'd say "No". On the other hand it just confirms what I always expected of the common US citizen. I just hope my friends get out of the country in time before they have to depend on the "good grace" of some of the posters here.

[Kritish]

Hmmm judging by the replies in here I'd say "No". On the other hand it just confirms what I always expected of the common US citizen. I just hope my friends get out of the country in time before they have to depend on the "good grace" of some of the posters here.

Somebody post a "you suck at the internet" pic.

[Daisy]

:(....

I would not.

[Erzengel]

No but I'm guessing if someone made some really offensive American joke, you'd laugh your ass off. And based on your posts of hatred towards the US, I'm guessing that's true. Like I said earlier, it's not funny until it hits too close to home.

[Super Flight]

george bush should get the banning

[Daisy]

Hmmm judging by the replies in here I'd say "No". On the other hand it just confirms what I always expected of the common US citizen. I just hope my friends get out of the country in time before they have to depend on the "good grace" of some of the posters here.

You know, most of my gay friends (and there are numerous, including my 'adoptive' father and his partner as well as my office-mate) have a much better sense of humor about themselves and their lives/lifestyles than you exhibit.

[Super Flight]

and i'm not showing haterd.. i'm just makeing a poke and making a fun

[Erzengel]

Spell Power! :mad:
I'm wearing a red armband with a bee on it.

[Kritish]

I'm wearing a red armband with a bee on it.

:up:

[RogueLDN]

Spell Power! :mad:

are we back on potter?
god hates him too

[jaguarr]

You know, most of my gay friends (and there are numerous, including my 'adoptive' father and his partner as well as my office-mate) have a much better sense of humor about themselves and their lives/lifestyles than you exhibit.

:up:

jag

[Daisy]

I'm wearing a red armband with a bee on it.

Ah-kee-la! Ah-kee-la! Ah-kee-la!

[Carter]

I was in class last year, and I was talking to this guy. Funny kid.
And I was mentioning how hot I thought this chick was across the room.
He didn't say anything, and I said "Well, what are you gay?"

And he said yes.

[Super Flight]

dasiy i'm sawwy... :(

[Strange]

I was in class last year, and I was talking to this guy. Funny kid.
And I was mentioning how hot I thought this chick was across the room.
He didn't say anything, and I said "Well, what are you gay?"

And he said yes.

Did you have sex with him?

[Carter]

Of course not

[Strange]

Of course not

What are you a hetero or something? :confused:

[RogueLDN]

god not MORe straight people.

[Carter]

Aye

[Super Flight]

i mean if this is going to be againts the law, whats the fine? like 500 bucks?

[Kritish]

What are you a hetero or something? :confused:

I'd have sex with a clone of myself. :(

[X-Punisher]

Of course not


Come on don't deny it you are among friends.;)

[X-Punisher]

Of course not


edit: double post

[Strange]

I'd have sex with a clone of myself. :(

How would that work? Would you or your clone be the giver?

[Carter]

I'm not a fan of the penis. Unless it's mine.

[Kritish]

How would that work? Would you or your clone be the giver?

It would be the best date ever, I know what I like and what pisses me off and I'm easy to please. :O

[jaguarr]

Come on don't deny it you are among friends.;)

Go cruise for dick someplace else. :)

jag

[Kritish]

For god's sake, it's not like there's gay fountains and bathrooms.

[Super Flight]

...................

[Emrys]

You know, most of my gay friends (and there are numerous, including my 'adoptive' father and his partner as well as my office-mate) have a much better sense of humor about themselves and their lives/lifestyles than you exhibit.

You know, you sometimes tend to lose your sense of humor when you hear that one of your best friends was beaten up by 3 drunken straight guys cause they thought it was a funny way to spend the evening, beating up **** and when he goes to the sherrif's office he's told that "it's his own fault for hanging out at a gay bar"

But it's okay, like I said the responses are pretty much what I expected anyway and it definately is a reason for me to strongly recommend my friends and their peers that they should get themselves armed.

[RogueLDN]

apparently there are some gay unisex toilets in gay clubs, a mate of mine is a gayer and talks about it a lot

[kane9321]

Hmmm judging by the replies in here I'd say "No". On the other hand it just confirms what I always expected of the common US citizen. I just hope my friends get out of the country in time before they have to depend on the "good grace" of some of the posters here.


dude ..where in the hell do you live..in a cave or something?...you hope your friends get out of the country?....like whats gonna happen if they dont

[Strange]

...................

I think being gay is a part of a mutant gene. So all the gay people should come up with a gay mutant virus to spread to the rest of the world. Then when the whole world becomes gay, then everyone will be understanding. And its not like we can't still have babies through artificial insemination.:o

[Danalys]

You know, you sometimes tend to lose your sense of humor when you hear that one of your best friends was beaten up by 3 drunken straight guys cause they thought it was a funny way to spend the evening, beating up **** and when he goes to the sherrif's office he's told that "it's his own fault for hanging out at a gay bar"

But it's okay, like I said the responses are pretty much what I expected anyway and it definately is a reason for me to strongly recommend my friends and their peers that they should get themselves armed.

you should spead word of my suggestions. team work and legal loop holes for the win.

[Kritish]

I think being gay is a part of a mutant gene. So all the gay people should come up with a gay mutant virus to spread to the rest of the world. Then when the whole world becomes gay, then everyone will be understanding. And its not like we can't still have babies through artificial insemination.:o

I'm inventing a cure for it though.

Seriousely, I wonder what gays would do if there was a straight pill.

[Immortalfire]

I'm inventing a cure for it though.

Seriousely, I wonder what gays would do if there was a straight pill. Rip apart the Golden Gate bridge?

[Emrys]

dude ..where in the hell do you live..in a cave or something?...you hope your friends get out of the country?....like whats gonna happen if they dont

Depends on the time span, the next five to ten years probably just a soft errosion of gay rights however after that I expect that it will start with gays and lesbians being send into hospitals so they get "psychiatric treatment" for their "disorder" ater that who knows? maybe they are put into camps like the Japanese were and if just the "right" people grap power I can see death camps too.

I'd not put it behind some of the religious nuts in the US to do exactly that, they are in no way better than the taliban.

[Kritish]

Rip apart the Golden Gate bridge?

We tried to use it on Ryan Seacrest, He flew away. :(

[Emrys]

No but I'm guessing if someone made some really offensive American joke, you'd laugh your ass off. And based on your posts of hatred towards the US, I'm guessing that's true. Like I said earlier, it's not funny until it hits too close to home.Hatred is not born inside a vaccum, why do you think I do hate the US? Look at the current politics and you have your answer.

[kane9321]

^^^ jesus christ

[RogueLDN]

Depends on the time span, the next five to ten years probably just a soft errosion of gay rights however after that I expect that it will start with gays and lesbians being send into hospitals so they get "psychiatric treatment" for their "disorder" ater that who knows? maybe they are put into camps like the Japanese were and if just the "right" people grap power I can see death camps too.

like they sayin the US the land where anything of possible

God we shouldve sent someone to sort you out. I mean how does an army win all the necessary battels but lose a bloody war. :)

Maybe it was the influence of the infamous Pink Guard of the american army.

Turned the tide, i can see it now, more mincing men with copies of the gay times circa 1700's and nicely coordinated uniforms


But seriously, theres no way i can ever see death camps for gays and anyone who thinks they can need s to clean their glasses or buy some.

[Darthphere]

You guys dare debate Emrys? You'll be here for the next couple of weeks.

[jaguarr]

You guys dare debate Emrys? You'll be entertained for the next couple of weeks.

Fixed that for ya.

jag

[Emrys]

like they sayin the US the land where anything of possible

God we shouldve sent someone to sort you out. I mean how does an army win all the necessary battels but lose a bloody war. :)

Maybe it was the influence of the infamous Pink Guard of the american army.

Turned the tide, i can see it now, more mincing men with copies of the gay times circa 1700's and nicely coordinated uniforms


But seriously, theres no way i can ever see death camps for gays and anyone who thinks they can need s to clean their glasses or buy some.

Oh just take a look at some of the religious rights most favorite websites like Freerepublic. com, The Concerned women of america, the family research institute and the cream of the crops, The westboro Baptist church... heck even southern Baptist convention would be enough, I'd say those are the perfect candidates for the things I mentioned earlier and considering that some of those have very much influence in the republican wing I'd say it's not that hard to conclude where that can lead to.

[Darthphere]

Fixed that for ya.

jag


Youre right oh mighty Jaguarr.

[Emrys]

Fixed that for ya.

jag

*yawn* how predictable

[Hunter Rider]

http://cca.analisidifesa.it/resources/image/resource_brhvnbgmptkfpibojsxq.jpg

Dude in the background looks like stone Cold Steve Austin:confused:

[Darthphere]

Hmmmmm.

[jaguarr]

*yawn* how predictable

You might as well learn how to laugh at yourself a little bit because you're only undermining your own cause in this thread by taking everything so seriously. The friends that I have that are gay have long figured out how to make life work to their advantage and stand up for their rights and that does not include acting like a pucker-holed American Basher (which is ironic that you take that stance since you're trying to preach open-mindedness and acceptance while doing so). Besides, people are going to laugh and have fun on here. The choice is up to you whether we laugh with you or at you. And didn't I already warn you about wearing your brain out? :)

jag

[Darthphere]

You might as well learn how to laugh at yourself a little bit because you're only undermining your own cause in this thread by taking everything so seriously. The friends that I have that are gay have long figured out how to make life work to their advantage and stand up for their rights and that does not include acting like a pucker-holed American Basher (which is ironic that you take that stance since you're trying to preach open-mindedness and acceptance while doing so). Besides, people are going to laugh and have fun on here. The choice is up to you whether we laugh with you or at you. And didn't I already warn you about wearing your brain out? :)

jag


True that.


Also, how does banning gay marriage=gays arming themselves from gay bashing?

[Hunter Rider]

Are you gay Emrys ?

[War Lord]

With the latest news of the gay marriage ban being pushed by conservative forces and the new law which prohibits demonstrating at soldiers funerals, while the law making body turned a blind eye towards it when it was done to funerals of homosexuals in the past, I start to think that gays in america cannot hope that their rights are adequately represented and defended by american law making and enforcing bodies.


The question is what could the gay community do to give their members a sense of security and to ensure that they will get justice? I personally believe it is high time that the gay community does something similar to the black community when they decided to create the Black Panthers Party, meaning, getting fire armes to protect themselves and their loved ones against law enforcement organisation and other groups as well as individuals who are openly anti-gay, with violence if necessary. It's obvious that no one else will protect their rights as citizens so they have to do it themselves.

I certainly hope that gays arm themselves, so I can also get armed to defend myself against them.

[Danalys]

has he been wearing his brain out aswell.

[RogueLDN]

wearing it out? what like a hat or something?

[War Lord]

wearing it out? what like a hat or something?

Well, he has to keep it somewhere and his head seems full of other things at the moment.

[RogueLDN]

maybe as a neat if drippy broach, it may even be small enough to wear on his lapel

[Erzengel]

Hatred is not born inside a vaccum, why do you think I do hate the US? Look at the current politics and you have your answer.
And no matter what America does, in your eyes it's still a dispicable place. Talk about being a hypocrite and not being open minded to things.

[Emrys]

You might as well learn how to laugh at yourself a little bit because you're only undermining your own cause in this thread by taking everything so seriously. The friends that I have that are gay have long figured out how to make life work to their advantage and stand up for their rights and that does not include acting like a pucker-holed American Basher (which is ironic that you take that stance since you're trying to preach open-mindedness and acceptance while doing so). Besides, people are going to laugh and have fun on here. The choice is up to you whether we laugh with you or at you. And didn't I already warn you about wearing your brain out? :)

jag

I don't take everything so serious but I take the topic at hand VERY serious.

As for your friends, good for them

As for american hating, I'll continue doing that as long as I have to believe that the majority of your countrymen are brain dead and elect an abomination like the current adminstration TWICE!

Oh and I'm not tolerant of intolerance. It's not hard to make a distinction between what's good and what's evil and when I see evil I decry it as such.

You know I couldn't care less if people laugh in this threat. i think it's inapropriate since it's making fun of the misery of other human beings but that's just me. As for people laughing at me, well shoot yourself out what do I care? In the end you're nothing more to me than some IP Numbers.

Oh and about that brain wearing out thing, might be, quite honestly can't remember maybe I didn't bother to read what you wrote when you mentioned it.

[RogueLDN]

it was a joke, many people find it pleasant to laugh at these things.

[Emrys]

And no matter what America does, in your eyes it's still a dispicable place. Talk about being a hypocrite and not being open minded to things.

Actually, that's completely wrong I was actually very much pro american before the current adminstration took everything the US stood for and turned it into a corrupted, sick, carricature of what it was before.

[cass]

Why can't you guys ever be cereal? GOSH!!!

[Emrys]

I certainly hope that gays arm themselves, so I can also get armed to defend myself against them.

Hmmm interesting does that mean you consider yourself someone who would deny homosexuals a just trial and their rights a citizens?

[War Lord]

Actually, that's completely wrong I was actually very much pro american before the current adminstration took everything the US stood for and turned it into a corrupted, sick, carricature of what it was before.

Yes, defending yourself against terrorism is such a terrible thing.

[Emrys]

Why can't you guys ever be cereal? GOSH!!!

hmm like what, cornflackes or something else?

[cass]

Yes, defending yourself against terrorism is such a terrible thing.

Maybe we should just bend over and take it in the a---oh wait.

[RogueLDN]

right well im with emrys here, anyone form the uk ive ever disscussed it with thinks bush and his administraion is a joke, bring back clinton.

[War Lord]

Hmmm interesting does that mean you consider yourself someone who would deny homosexuals a just trial and their rights a citizens?

I've denied nobody their rights and you should be a little more grateful for the fact that America is fighting the terrorists over where they are instead of over here, because if the terrorists ever succeed in toppling Western Democracies and culture and impose their values upon us, a person like yourself is high on the list to be drawn and quartered.

[jaguarr]

Oh and about that brain wearing out thing, might be, quite honestly can't remember maybe I didn't bother to read what you wrote when you mentioned it.

THAT also had been a joke.

In all serious, though, may I ask if you are bipolar? You seem to swing between uber-serious, angst-ridden and confrontational to amiable, jovial and jocular quite often.

jag

[Emrys]

Yes, defending yourself against terrorism is such a terrible thing.

It might come as a surprise to you but the "war on terror" is not the be all and end all of the actions the american government is doing. To be honest it's not even on the list of the reasons why I hate the current adminstration.

[Hunter Rider]

Are you gay Emrys ?

.......

[RogueLDN]

Well to be perfectly fair we've been 'fighting terrorism' in the uk long before Dubya was born. Think the IRA and the thousand of people they killed, we're old hats at this dealing with terrorism lark.

[jaguarr]

right well im with emrys here, anyone form the uk ive ever disscussed it with thinks bush and his administraion is a joke, bring back clinton.

There are plenty of us here in the U.S. that don't hold a very high opinion of our current government (and never did), but that doesn't mean we dislike the entire country as a whole.

jag

[War Lord]

It might come as a surprise to you but the "war on terror" is not the be all and end all of the actions the american government is doing. To be honest it's not even on the list of the reasons why I hate the current adminstration.

You hate the administration because it doesn't believe in what you believe.

Your definition of tolerance is to expect toleration for what you believe, but not have to return the favour.

[RogueLDN]

i certainly don't dislike the country itself i'm sure its a lovely place and would liketo visit some time.

[Erzengel]

I'm curious where Emrys is from? Did he ever say?

[Darthphere]

I'm curious where Emrys is from? Did he ever say?


Nope, he thinks its funny to keep us guessing. Im pretty sure hes from Texas.

[RogueLDN]

to be honest i think hes like me from the uk, emrys is an old celtic name. you dont get much celtic history, or history at all for that matter over there

[cass]

I'm curious where Emrys is from? Did he ever say?

From Somewhere Over the Rainbow, I believe.

[Carter]

He's the boy from Oz

[jaguarr]

to be honest i think hes like me from the uk, emrys is an old celtic name. you dont get much celtic history, or history at all for that matter over there

Come on, man. Do you really believe that?

jag

[Emrys]

THAT also had been a joke.

In all serious, though, may I ask if you are bipolar? You seem to swing between uber-serious, angst-ridden and confrontational to amiable, jovial and jocular quite often.

jag

Well, excuse me when I seem daft but since I'm not from an english speaking country, what does Bipolar mean?

[Erzengel]

He's the boy from Oz

Hahahah. Nice Carter.

[RogueLDN]

:) Come on, man. Do you really believe that?

jag

not essentially no, its jsut something we english are supposed to say about america. It was ours first after all. Damned war of independence :):)

[RogueLDN]

Well, excuse me when I seem daft but since I'm not from an english speaking country, what does Bipolar mean?


ooh ooh your welsh arent you ?????

[War Lord]

Nope, he thinks its funny to keep us guessing. Im pretty sure hes from Texas.

It would seem that he's American, because he certainly spends a lot of time being obsessed about the leader of another country and its laws.

He better be American for his sake, because if he's European, he's going to get Islamified sooner than later.

[jaguarr]

Well, excuse me when I seem daft but since I'm not from an english speaking country, what does Bipolar mean?

Bipoloar disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder)

Bipolar disorder (previously known as manic depression) is a diagnostic category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis) describing a class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosology) of mood disorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_disorders) where the person experiences states or episodes of depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression) and/or mania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania), hypomania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania), and/or mixed states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_state_%28psychiatry%29). Left untreated, it is a severely disabling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability) psychiatric condition. The difference between bipolar disorder and unipolar disorder (also called major depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression)) - for the purpose of this introduction - is that bipolar disorder involves "energized" or "activated" mood states in addition to depressed mood states. The duration and intensity of mood states varies widely among people with the illness. Fluctuating from one mood state to another is called "cycling" or having mood swings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_swing). Mood swings cause impairment not only in one's mood, but also in one's energy level, sleep pattern, activity level, social rhythms and thinking abilities. Many people become fully disabled - for some period of time - after being diagnosed, and during this time may have great difficulty functioning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activities_of_daily_living).


I really don't mean it facetiously or as an insult. You seem to have enough swings in mood to make me wonder if this might be the case for you.

jag

[War Lord]

Well, excuse me when I seem daft but since I'm not from an english speaking country, what does Bipolar mean?

It means you're crazy.

[jaguarr]

:)

not essentially no, its jsut something we english are supposed to say about america. It was ours first after all. Damned war of independence :):)

Ohhhhh, alright. You can have West Virginia back. :)

jag

[Erzengel]

Nope, he thinks its funny to keep us guessing. Im pretty sure hes from Texas.

I bet a mod can ip him and find out for us. :D

[Emrys]

You hate the administration because it doesn't believe in what you believe.

Your definition of tolerance is to expect toleration for what you believe, but not have to return the favour.

If they start making laws that discriminate against people, and spread a climate towards a minority group that might very well turn to violence against said group I consider that evil and do not tolerate that. Like I said I'm not tolerant of intolerance.

[Emrys]

I bet a mod can ip him and find out for us. :D

Oh he could but the gag is that my ip is located in neighboring country :p

But since you all seem so eager to find out where I'm from I'll just say it. I'm from Switzerland, there, happy?

[RogueLDN]

dammit i wanted iowa
or Alaska i'd love alaska

[Erzengel]

Oh he could but the gag is that my ip is located in neighboring country :p

Be ballpark.

[jaguarr]

dammit i wanted iowa
or Alaska i'd love alaska

Oh, wouldn't we ALL love Alaska, Mr. Greedypants?

jag

[Erzengel]

Oh he could but the gag is that my ip is located in neighboring country :p

But since you all seem so eager to find out where I'm from I'll just say it. I'm from Switzerland, there, happy?

I enjoy your knives, watches, chocolate and your bikini team.

[RogueLDN]

Emrys is that the origin of your name by the way, just so happens its the nameof a character in a favourite book of mine.#


And yesdude, i'll give you what america paid for it?

[War Lord]

If they start making laws that discriminate against people, and spread a climate towards a minority group that might very well turn to violence against said group I consider that evil and do not tolerate that. Like I said I'm not tolerant of intolerance.

There is nothing discriminatory about the marriage laws, you can also marry somebody of the opposite sex if you want, since that is the time-honoured definition of marriage. We both can't marry people of the same sex and that covers everybody of every ethnicity, race, and religion.

You're intolerant of people with traditional beliefs, beliefs that helped create the society you live and prosper in. To tear it down because you don't like it means that you're also tearing down the society that you live and prosper in. I can guarentee that something will replace this society and I can almost guarentee it will be something very unpleasent for the both of us.

[War Lord]

Oh he could but the gag is that my ip is located in neighboring country :p

But since you all seem so eager to find out where I'm from I'll just say it. I'm from Switzerland, there, happy?

Oh good, one the few European countries that are not in danger of being Islamified, at least not in the very near future.

[Emrys]

Emrys is that the origin of your name by the way, just so happens its the nameof a character in a favourite book of mine.#


And yesdude, i'll give you what america paid for it?

The name is the celtic version of the Latin Ambrosius, like Ambrosius Aurelian

[sinewave]

this thread is nothing more than lame, hackneyed gay-jokes (especially siva's) and knee-jerk reactions. :down

[War Lord]

If they start making laws that discriminate against people, and spread a climate towards a minority group that might very well turn to violence against said group I consider that evil and do not tolerate that. Like I said I'm not tolerant of intolerance.

Again, gays are not being persecuted in any kind of significant numbers in America, whether it be straight numbers or percentages. If Christians wanted gays dead, the Christians have the numbers to push whatever laws it want and the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the government could not stop it.

The fact that is not happening, other then the defense for traditional marriage speaks very well of the American people and their level of tolerance.

[RogueLDN]

The name is the celtic version of the Latin Ambrosius, like Ambrosius Aurelian

Yep, what i was thinking of, it was an old celtic title, often given to the high king, it comes up a lot in authurian legend and mythology, if you are interested in that sort of thing i recommend this guy great books www.bernardcornwell.net

http://www.bernardcornwell.net/index2.cfm?page=1&seriesid=4

awesome books

[Emrys]

There is nothing discriminatory about the marriage laws, you can also marry somebody of the opposite sex if you want, since that is the time-honoured definition of marriage. We both can't marry people of the same sex and that covers everybody of every ethnicity, race, and religion.

You're intolerant of people with traditional beliefs, beliefs that helped create the society you live and prosper in. To tear it down because you don't like it means that you're also tearing down the society that you live and prosper in. I can guarentee that something will replace this society and I can almost guarentee it will be something very unpleasent for the both of us.

The society I live in is a society build upon the believes of secular humanism, we in europe fought very hard to shakle of a stupid religion and we certainly don't want its traditions and prejudices back. Just because something is traditional does not mean it was a good idea to start with and when it cannot stand in the pure light of human reason it isn't worth keeping... oh and I'm very much satisifed with my society cause we changed it from the traditional nonsense into something better.

[Emrys]

Yep, what i was thinking of, it was an old celtic title, often given to the high king, it comes up a lot in authurian legend and mythology, if you are interested in that sort of thing i recommend this guy great books www.bernardcornwell.net (http://www.bernardcornwell.net)

http://www.bernardcornwell.net/index2.cfm?page=1&seriesid=4

awesome books

Jupp, read them, really liked them. I'm somewhat of an Arthurian legend buff that's why I choose the name since it's also a name associated with Merlin in the traditional legend.

[War Lord]

The society I live in is a society build upon the believes of secular humanism, we in europe fought very hard to shakle of a stupid religion and we certainly don't want its traditions and prejudices back. Just because something is traditional does not mean it was a good idea to start with and when it cannot stand in the pure light of human reason it isn't worth keeping... oh and I'm very much satisifed with my society cause we changed it from the traditional nonsense into something better.

Yes, and as a result you're losing the fight against being Islamified. Europe's inability to reproduce itself and a lack of belief has no defense against an enemy with very strong beliefs and a very high reproductive rate.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

[Emrys]

Again, gays are not being persecuted in any kind of significant numbers in America, whether it be straight numbers or percentages. If Christians wanted gays dead, the Christians have the numbers to push whatever laws it want and the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the government could not stop it.

The fact that is not happening, other then the defense for traditional marriage speaks very well of the American people and their level of tolerance.

Actually it does not because america is way behind on that one compared to all the other western countries.

And no they cannot push all they want, some laws are not determined by the majority.

[Emrys]

Yes, and as a result you're losing the fight against being Islamified. Europe's inability to reproduce itself and a lack of belief has no defense against an enemy with very strong beliefs and a very high reproductive rate.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

Don't worry we'll manage that one too.

Besides the reproduction problem is a general problem of western civilisation and has nothing to do with traditional values or secular humanism. Oh and we have believe, just not into a stupid religion we believe in the values we fought for in the age of enlightenment. They defeated a religion once they'll do it again.

if the Muslims want conflict they can have it but they are not doing anything at least not in my country so why should I be worried? If they decide to rear their heads and try to forcefully overtake the country we're gonna cut them down to size again.

[RogueLDN]

Jupp, read them, really liked them. I'm somewhat of an Arthurian legend buff that's why I choose the name since it's also a name associated with Merlin in the traditional legend.

Yeah it was form a roman term oringially i think, merlin is widely accepted to have been added to the legends at a later date and ebellished by mallory a lot in the Morte d'arthur. I love the way he is in those warlord books though.

You should also look at Stephen Lawheads pendragon series, a little more fantasy there but still good.

Very much the arthur buff me.


:)

[Emrys]

There is nothing discriminatory about the marriage laws, you can also marry somebody of the opposite sex if you want, since that is the time-honoured definition of marriage. We both can't marry people of the same sex and that covers everybody of every ethnicity, race, and religion.
Marriage is the union between to people who love each other, Love is the sole basis for a marriage and to tell gays that their love is somehow not good enough even though it is sometimes stronger than that of a hetero couple is not only a discrimination it's a downright insult.

Oh and I also think it is highly insulting that you somehow imply that gays are responsible for the decline in western birth rates or that they are somehow detrimental to society considering the many good things homosexuals have contributed to western culture.

[War Lord]

Actually it does not because america is way behind on that one compared to all the other western countries.

And no they cannot push all they want, some laws are not determined by the majority.

The majority ultimately gets what it wants because once they start electing the legislative and executive branches, they eventually get the judicial one as well.

It's pretty hard to not resist the majority at that point.

[The Venomator]

Marriage is the union between to people who love each other, Love is the sole basis for a marriage and to tell gays that their love is somehow not good enough even though it is sometimes stronger than that of a hetero couple is not only a discrimination it's a downright insult.

i agree,, Most people frown upon same gender relationships is because of the society they wer brought up in. But people say the bible forbids it, so if god made gays, isn't he contradicting himself, personally i thn it a pile, but thats a different issue for a different day. (Unless there's a thread on it today:) )

[Emrys]

The majority ultimately gets what it wants because once they start electing the legislative and executive branches, they eventually get the judicial one as well.

It's pretty hard to not resist the majority at that point.

So if the majority decides it's okay to put people into gas chambers it becomes just all of a sudden? Hmmm cool, am I allowed to call the US evil then when gays are put into prison or worse? I mean after all it's the majority then who made that possible.

[War Lord]

Marriage is the union between to people who love each other, Love is the sole basis for a marriage and to tell gays that their love is somehow not good enough even though it is sometimes stronger than that of a hetero couple is not only a discrimination it's a downright insult.

Marriage has always been defined as a union between two people of the opposite sex, that's why they call it man and wife.

I don't care if two homosexuals want to live together, that's their personal business. There hasn't been a law preventing such action for the last thirty years. They also have all the rights to property and other functions that married couples have. The only difference is that one relationship has been approved by God as acceptable and that is something you can never have.

I won't tell you how homosexuals should live their lives, if you don't tell me that I have to accept their desire to change the law. It goes both ways.

[ico]

Wow I didn't think this thread would spur up into a big debate. :/

Actually, I think I did, I just hoped it wouldn't. Oh well...

As a gay man myself though, I don't understand why gay couples would want a Catholic marriage anyway. I mean, it's a religion which opresses gay people, so I wouldn't want any part of it.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to prove me wrong, someone.

[sinewave]

nothing like a controversial topic to crank out the thread pages.

[War Lord]

So if the majority decides it's okay to put people into gas chambers it becomes just all of a sudden? Hmmm cool, am I allowed to call the US evil then when gays are put into prison or worse? I mean after all it's the majority then who made that possible.

We'll deal with this when gays are being jailed for being gay and being put to death.

Otherwise, it's a discusson without merit.

[War Lord]

i agree,, Most people frown upon same gender relationships is because of the society they wer brought up in. But people say the bible forbids it, so if god made gays, isn't he contradicting himself, personally i thn it a pile, but thats a different issue for a different day. (Unless there's a thread on it today:) )

There are many things about this life that was not intentioned by God, as a consequence of sin.

We are very broken and disfunctional people as a consequence.

[RogueLDN]

and this thread started off so playfully and nice.

[War Lord]

and this thread started off so playfully and nice.

I'm still being nice.

Firm, but nice.

[RogueLDN]

sounds like my girlfriends boobs

[Emrys]

Marriage has always been defined as a union between two people of the opposite sex, that's why they call it man and wife.

I don't care if two homosexuals want to live together, that's their personal business. There hasn't been a law preventing such action for the last thirty years. They also have all the rights to property and other functions that married couples have. The only difference is that one relationship has been approved by God as acceptable and that is something you can never have.

I won't tell you how homosexuals should live their lives, if you don't tell me that I have to accept their desire to change the law. It goes both ways.

No it does not because the law is not governed by god and no it has not always been defined as "one man one woman" there have been many cultures before christianity that had a completely different understanding.

Gays don't want approval by god, because quite frankly you only care about him if you believe in christianity Judaism or Islam. Since God is not the head of state it is absolutely legitimate to seek a marriage purely based on human law what does god have to do with it?

[jaguarr]

Wow I didn't think this thread would spur up into a big debate. :/

Actually, I think I did, I just hoped it wouldn't. Oh well...

As a gay man myself though, I don't understand why gay couples would want a Catholic marriage anyway. I mean, it's a religion which opresses gay people, so I wouldn't want any part of it.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to prove me wrong, someone.

It seems contradictory to me as well, but I do have a couple of gay friends who are also devout Catholics. Boggles the mind.

jag

[Darthphere]

Wow I didn't think this thread would spur up into a big debate. :/

Actually, I think I did, I just hoped it wouldn't. Oh well...

As a gay man myself though, I don't understand why gay couples would want a Catholic marriage anyway. I mean, it's a religion which opresses gay people, so I wouldn't want any part of it.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to prove me wrong, someone.


Ill prove you wrong, after lunch.

[Emrys]

There are many things about this life that was not intentioned by God, as a consequence of sin.

We are very broken and disfunctional people as a consequence.

Which doesn't make sense, humanity has always been taught that God is love so something that is born out of love can't be broken or bad. Homosexual relationships are a result of a deep, personal, love therefor it can't be sin.

[Hunter Rider]

such dishonesty:(

[Emrys]

We'll deal with this when gays are being jailed for being gay and being put to death.

Otherwise, it's a discusson without merit.

Maybe but you know how fast such discussions without merit turn into the talk of the day. But I'm really wondering what woudl you do? would you stand before them and protect them? Somehow I doubt that.

Oh and for your "I won't tell you how homosexuals should live their lives, if you don't tell me that I have to accept their desire to change the law. It goes both ways" spiel. What kind of crock ist that? You know that in the past homosexual intercourse was thought of as a criminal offence? Should they have let that one slip too cause it would have changed the law? Some laws are discriminatory and nonsentical so one changes them. What would you say if suddenly a law would be introduced that makes the practice of christianity unlawful, would you simply accept it?

[Darthphere]

Maybe but you know how fast such discussions without merit turn into the talk of the day. But I'm really wondering what woudl you do? would you stand before them and protect them? Somehow I doubt that.


OMG! Shut the **** up.

[RogueLDN]

this is like the arguement about church law and holy law, what god intended is often misconstrued and differs form his original plan, as a reference see the spanish inquisition and the churchs position on condoms, not great really are they, when the hell doe sthe bible mention contraceptive health or that all missionarys should burn the condoms sent to africs cos the pope doesnt believe in them when theres a full scale plague of hiv over there.

And im not linking homosexuality and hiv, simply using an example so dont flame me.

[ico]

Gays don't want approval by god, because quite frankly you only care about him if you believe in christianity Judaism or Islam. Since God is not the head of state it is absolutely legitimate to seek a marriage purely based on human law what does god have to do with it?


If it's not about wanting to show your love to God then why is a marriage necessary? Why not just have a civil union or something?

[Emrys]

If it's not about wanting to show your love to God then why is a marriage necessary? Why not just have a civil union or something?

Ahhh gay marriage is in essence a civil union since last time I checked the church does not have the monopoly on marriage anymore. Or do you honestly think gays will invade the churches when it is legalized?

[RogueLDN]

civil unions are availabvle in the uk now i believe so that couples share the same legal rights as hetero couples. Fair enough if you ask me.

[Emrys]

OMG! Shut the **** up.

It's a legitimate question, after all why defend something you despise?

[War Lord]

No it does not because the law is not governed by god and no it has not always been defined as "one man one woman" there have been many cultures before christianity that had a completely different understanding.

Gays don't want approval by god, because quite frankly you only care about him if you believe in christianity Judaism or Islam. Since God is not the head of state it is absolutely legitimate to seek a marriage purely based on human law what does god have to do with it?

If law is simply made by man and that is the basis for its existence, then you're on really weak ground for complaint, because then your complaint is based on another man's opinion of what law should be and the only thing that matters is who has the greater support of the people.

If the majority of Americans support the marriage amendment, and they likely will, you have no complaint.

[War Lord]

civil unions are availabvle in the uk now i believe so that couples share the same legal rights as hetero couples. Fair enough if you ask me.

and that's how it is over here in North America as well.

[Emrys]

civil unions are availabvle in the uk now i believe so that couples share the same legal rights as hetero couples. Fair enough if you ask me.

Jupp, I agree, of course there is the semantic problem too since civil union, well one could interpret it as a form of second class marriage once again as if the love a gay couple shares is somehow not good or pure enough for marriage.

[Darthphere]

It's a legitimate question, after all why defend something you despise?


You keep spouting that garbage on how America is evil, that were going to turn into a fascist state. Yet, here we are. Seriously, your arguments have no merits. At least TSOG and the other conspiracy theorists have facts to back up their statements.

[ico]

Or do you honestly think gays will invade the churches when it is legalized?

You know, I know a lot of people who actually would out of spite.

[jaguarr]

You know, I know a lot of people who actually would out of spite.

I was just thinking the exact same thing, actually.

jag

[War Lord]

Maybe but you know how fast such discussions without merit turn into the talk of the day. But I'm really wondering what woudl you do? would you stand before them and protect them? Somehow I doubt that.

Oh and for your "I won't tell you how homosexuals should live their lives, if you don't tell me that I have to accept their desire to change the law. It goes both ways" spiel. What kind of crock ist that? You know that in the past homosexual intercourse was thought of as a criminal offence? Should they have let that one slip too cause it would have changed the law? Some laws are discriminatory and nonsentical so one changes them. What would you say if suddenly a law would be introduced that makes the practice of christianity unlawful, would you simply accept it?

In the past, but what was once criminalized does not matter, since we're talking about the present.

Since, many places and through human right commissions, many Christians have been forced to do things they wouldn't have done otherwise, it's already happening.

[War Lord]

You know, I know a lot of people who actually would out of spite.

and they're going to show just how tolerant they are of other people's beliefs.

[ico]

War Lord is right Emrys, the past is well... the past. It doesnt really have any basis on what is happening now.

[Emrys]

If law is simply made by man and that is the basis for its existence, then you're on really weak ground for complaint, because then your complaint is based on another man's opinion of what law should be and the only thing that matters is who has the greater support of the people.

If the majority of Americans support the marriage amendment, and they likely will, you have no complaint.

Not quite, just because there is no higher authority does nor mean that automatically all laws are equal in their moral outcome. A law that discriminates like the marriage amendemt even if carried by the majority is immoral because what is the crime those people commit? They love each other instead of females. Is that so detrimental to society that it has to be oppressed? is love such a terrible emotion that it has to be shunned? Funny and here I thought love was the most important of all human emotions.

[RogueLDN]

lets throw the gates wide open here then,

should gay couples be allowed to rasie kids?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Which doesn't make sense, humanity has always been taught that God is love so something that is born out of love can't be broken or bad. Homosexual relationships are a result of a deep, personal, love therefor it can't be sin.
Sure, you can worship a God who is described as "Love" if you want.

But, The CATHOLIC God:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoitai] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)


You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22).
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them (Leviticus 20:13).Leviticus 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.



and... Hebrews 13:8 (http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth/hebrews-13.htm#8) states that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

God's Word says that homosexuality is unnatural, a perversion, an abomination, fornication, vile affections, and a great sin against Him. He states any sexual act outside of marriage is adultery (hetro or homo sexual). Sex is to be between man and woman within marriage



Not only that, but the current authority of the church has condemned homosexuality, very, very clearly.

So if you're gay and you want to join a church, great, but you can't be a Catholic, 'cause YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CATHOLICISM.
:confused:

[War Lord]

If it's not about wanting to show your love to God then why is a marriage necessary? Why not just have a civil union or something?

His definition of equality means to remove all distinctions. If something is distinct, it is discriminatory and must be crushed.

[ico]

and they're going to show just how tolerant they are of other people's beliefs.

I agree with you, they shouldn't. I know I wouldn't. I don't agree with Christianity, but I am not going to attack it either. But, I do know a lot of people that would do it soley just to piss off Catholics. sad, but true.

[Emrys]

In the past, but what was once criminalized does not matter, since we're talking about the present.

Since, many places and through human right commissions, many Christians have been forced to do things they wouldn't have done otherwise, it's already happening.

It does not? tell that to the people in Teheran who, after a relative period of advancement hat to cope with being thrown back again. It would be quite easy to push the laws back to a state where you can be put into prison because you're gay.

oh and what have christians been forced to do, respect other people as euqals? Gee what a crime!

[RogueLDN]

Sure, you can worship a God who is described as "Love" if you want.

But, The CATHOLIC God:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoitai] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)


You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22).
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them (Leviticus 20:13).Leviticus 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.



and... Hebrews 13:8 (http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth/hebrews-13.htm#8) states that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

God's Word says that homosexuality is unnatural, a perversion, an abomination, fornication, vile affections, and a great sin against Him. He states any sexual act outside of marriage is adultery (hetro or homo sexual). Sex is to be between man and woman within marriage



Not only that, but the current authority of the church has condemned homosexuality, very, very clearly.

So if you're gay and you want to join a church, great, but you can't be a Catholic, 'cause YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CATHOLICISM.
:confused:

God didnt say that, man said that in gods name and man is flawed from birth so how can those comments be legitimate

[ico]

I hate religious debates. They never end and make my head hurt.

[War Lord]

It does not? tell that to the people in Teheran who, after a relative period of advancement hat to cope with being thrown back again. It would be quite easy to push the laws back to a state where you can be put into prison because you're gay.

However, since in your opinion the law is nothing more than a man-made construct, you have no basis for complaint. Since what is lawful is nothing more than an opinion anyhow.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

God didnt say that, man said that in gods name and man is flawed from birth so how can those comments be legitimate*sigh*
I know that and you know that. But the leadership of the church believes that the Bible is God's inspired word and that when it says "Thus saith the Lord" that IS his will.
Why would I have to explain this?:confused:

You know when it says "Thou shalt not steal"?
They don't believe men came up with that. They believe that that rule came directly from the creator of the universe, and that's exactly how they feel about the time he said that it's an abomination for a man to have sex with another man and the time he destroyed Soddom and Gommorah because of their sexual "perversions" which included rape, bestiality, pedophilia and homosexuality.

come on, common sense here.

[War Lord]

I agree with you, they shouldn't. I know I wouldn't. I don't agree with Christianity, but I am not going to attack it either. But, I do know a lot of people that would do it soley just to piss off Catholics. sad, but true.

For them, it's not about tweeking the nose of those who disagree, it's about crushing dissent in the most "tolerant" way possible.

[Emrys]

I agree with you, they shouldn't. I know I wouldn't. I don't agree with Christianity, but I am not going to attack it either. But, I do know a lot of people that would do it soley just to piss off Catholics. sad, but true.

I agree they shouldn't I attack the three religions on a daily basis because I think their are hogwash but I'd never criminalze them but the way I see it, christianity in the states is trying to influence the law making process and that's dangerous. If there is to be piece between the religions they must be prevented from influencing the governing powers or otherwise there will be bitter blood because those who are not allowed to infulence will feel that the other tries to work against them.

[Emrys]

For them, it's not about tweeking the nose of those who disagree, it's about crushing dissent in the most "tolerant" way possible.

Jesus and you say I'm paranoid.

[War Lord]

Jesus and you say I'm paranoid.

It's not paranoia when it's true.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/nov/02112205.html

[ico]

It seems as though gay marriage will be made legal anyway, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. If it isn't now, it will be legal within the next 10/20 years. I for one can wait. I'm in no rush.

[War Lord]

It seems as though gay marriage will be made legal anyway, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. If it isn't now, it will be legal within the next 10/20 years. I for one can wait. I'm in no rush.

That's because you're a young punk. Emrys is afraid of being an old maid.

[jaguarr]

It's not paranoia when it's true.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/nov/02112205.html

Hate speech shouldn't necessarily be tolerated just because it's coming out of the mouth of a religious leader.

jag

[RogueLDN]

i think this may be a topic where it is preferable to agree to disagree as there is never any outcome good enough

[TheSumOfGod]

*sigh*
I know that and you know that. But the leadership of the church believes that the Bible is God's inspired word and that when it says "Thus saith the Lord" that IS his will.
Why would I have to explain this?:confused:

You know when it says "Thou shalt not steal"?
They don't believe men came up with that. They believe that that rule came directly from the creator of the universe, and that's exactly how they feel about the time he said that it's an abomination for a man to have sex with another man and the time he destroyed Soddom and Gommorah because of their sexual "perversions" which included rape, bestiality, pedophilia and homosexuality.

come on, common sense here.

I've said this a zillion times before, but it's always worth repeating:

Homosexuals are consenting adults, who have consentual relations with other consenting adults. The key word here is consent. Due to it's consentual nature, homosexuality (and bisexuality) is as valid a sexual orientation as heterosexuality.

Pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia, however, are rape, for one of the partners involved has not or can not consent.

Consent. Beyond the religious bulls**t, it's what it all boils down to.

[Emrys]

However, since in your opinion the law is nothing more than a man-made construct, you have no basis for complaint. Since what is lawful is nothing more than an opinion anyhow.

No i don't believe that. I believe there is a higher moral but I don't believe it is dictated by a god or by the bible. I believe the morality of an act is determined by how much it benefits or hurts a human being in his basic needs of which being loved and loving someone back is imho one of the most basic.

One of the most basic need is the live so murder is a nono.

Another one is the basic need of not being physically harmed so beating someone up is a nono... see it's very easy. In other words, the golden rule, the idea that you can emphasize with another human being that you can feel what the other might be feeling when you do something to him and the idea that when you feel it that it might hurt you and harm you so you don't do it to another human being, that is the way how you determine if something is moral or not and to deny someone the person he or she loves the most ist the most cruel and despicable act I could imagine.

[War Lord]

Hate speech shouldn't necessarily be tolerated just because it's coming out of the mouth of a religious leader.

jag

The point was that the printer was forced to accept material for printing against his beliefs.

[jaguarr]

I've said this a zillion times before, but it's always worth repeating:

Homosexuals are consenting adults, who have consentual relations with other consenting adults. The key word here is consent. Due to it's consentual nature, homosexuality (and bisexuality) is as valid a sexual orientation as heterosexuality.

Pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia, however, are rape, for one of the partners involved has not or can not consent.

Consent. Beyond the religious bulls**t, it's what it all boils down to.

I agree with you, you damn dirty lizard!

jag

[Emrys]

It's not paranoia when it's true.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2002/nov/02112205.html

So if the Pastor says "Homosexuals are an abomination and their bldod is upon them" and someone beats the crap out of a gay teen thanks to that it should be ignored... tell me how exactly is that any different to the Imam who says" infidels must be killed" and a muslim follower does it. You would readily condemm the later but the former, no cause it's christian teaching.

[War Lord]

No i don't believe that. I believe there is a higher moral but I don't believe it is dictated by a god or by the bible. I believe the morality of an act is determined by how much it benefits or hurts a human being in his basic needs of which being loved and loving someone back is imho one of the most basic.

One of the most basic need is the live so murder is a nono.

Another one is the basic need of not being physically harmed so beating someone up is a nono... see it's very easy. In other words, the golden rule, the idea that you can emphasize with another human being that you can feel what the other might be feeling when you do something to him and the idea that when you feel it that it might hurt you and harm you so you don't do it to another human being, that is the way how you determine if something is moral or not and to deny someone the person he or she loves the most ist the most cruel and despicable act I could imagine.

Again, you have no basis for complaint because if law is whatever man makes it out to be, no other man has a right to complain about. If the law can be moved one way at the whim of a current society, it can also be moved the other way at the whim of some future society.

You might not like it, but you have no right to complain about it.

[War Lord]

So if the Pastor says "Homosexuals are an abomination and their bldod is upon them" and someone beats the crap out of a gay teen thanks to that it should be ignored... tell me how exactly is that any different to the Imam who says" infidels must be killed" and a muslim follower does it. You would readily condemm the later but the former, no cause it's christian teaching.

http://www.exacom.net/firstlibrary/News/Moral%20Issues/Discrimination%20and%20Tolerance/Selective%20Censorship.htm

Here's a better story to underscore my point.

[Emrys]

Again, you have no basis for complaint because if law is whatever man makes it out to be, no other man has a right to complain about. If the law can be moved one way at the whim of a current society, it can also be moved the other way at the whim of some future society.

You might not like it, but you have no right to complain about it.

O yes I have a right to complain about it, I have a right to decry when people are hurt because others lack the basic human gift of emphazing and make laws according to that. Laws are not dictated by human whim they are dictated by the intrinsic morality of the golden rule.

[War Lord]

O yes I have a right to complain about it, I have a right to decry when people are hurt because others lack the basic human gift of emphazing and make laws according to that. Laws are not dictated by human whim they are dictated by the intrinsic morality of the golden rule.

There is no golden rule if a law is a manmade construct. In fact there is no rule at all.

[Emrys]

http://www.exacom.net/firstlibrary/News/Moral%20Issues/Discrimination%20and%20Tolerance/Selective%20Censorship.htm

Here's a better story to underscore my point.

While it is seems the same on the surface it varies greatly in the detail. Mein Kampf is a book that spreads a very inhumane and violent doctrine. If someone comes into contact with that he might act out things that are cruel, despicable and destructive. Mein Kampfs whole purpose is that it has no other merrit.

A homosexual pamphlet on the other hand calls for a completely different thing, namely acceptance and if that's not possible tolerance. It helps a certain portion of society to live a peacefull live and be protected against harrasment and discrimination.

See it's easy, the one is a negative, the other a positive.

[War Lord]

While it is seems the same on the surface it varies greatly in the detail. Mein Kampf is a book that spreads a very inhumane and violent doctrine. If someone comes into contact with that he might act out things that are cruel, despicable and destructive. Mein Kampfs whole purpose is that it has no other merrit.

A homosexual pamphlet on the other hand calls for a completely different thing, namely acceptance and if that's not possible tolerance. It helps a certin portion of society to live a peacefull live and be protected against harrasment and discrimination.

See it's easy, the one is a negative, the other a positive.

Now you're being selective. Your first position was that the basis of law is supposed to be based on some grand architecture (though manmade still), now you're saying that one business can refuse to sell a certain material or service because you agree with it, but another business does not have the right to refuse because it is refusing a service or material that you agree with.

[Emrys]

There is no golden rule if a law is a manmade construct. In fact there is no rule at all.

Wrong, simply wrong. While man can ignore the golden rule and make laws that go against it leads to the consequence that it is going to cause imense bloodshet simply because if you ignore the golden rule you ignore the fact that you're not the only one around and that someone will stand against you and as a result instability and bloodshed will happen. So while man can ignore the golden rule he does it at his own peril and since modern western civilization has had enough of bloodshed and misery they decided that the golden rule ist the best basis for their laws. But like with everything else old habbits die hard so the things that go aganst the golden rule have to be weeded out.

[Emrys]

Now you're being selective. Your first position was that the basis of law is supposed to be based on some grand architecture (though manmade still), now you're saying that one business can refuse to sell a certain material or service because you agree with it, but another business does not have the right to refuse because it is refusing a service or material that you agree with.

Nope, Mein Kampf's ideology simply violates the golden rule ergo it is evil

gay rights movements do not violate the golden rule on the contrary, they explicitly advocate the golden rule therefor they are not evil it's that easy.

[Danalys]

the religious profess moral relatism when it suits their arguement.

[Emrys]

the religious profess moral relatism when it suits their arguement.

Since when did they ever do it differently?

[War Lord]

Wrong, simply wrong. While man can ignore the golden rule and make laws that go against it leads to the consequence that it is going to cause imense bloodshet simply because if you ignore the golden rule you ignore the fact that you're not the only one around you and that someone will stand against you and as a rsult instability and bloodshed will happen. So while man can ignore the golden rule he does it at his own peril.

Sure they can, because there is no golden rule because there is no basis for the golden rule. It might be a good idea, but it is in no way mandatory.

[RogueLDN]

agreed, apparently hitler read only two books while in prison, apparently one of those was Henry Fords, a complete ass hole apparently

[War Lord]

Nope, Mein Kampf's ideology simply violates the golden rule ergo it is evil

gay rights movements do not violate the golden rule therefor it's not evil it's that easy.

You mean the golden rule as you have defined it. Making a printer print material that he finds objectionable is harmful to him, because you are making him violate his person principles.

[Danalys]

Since when did they ever do it differently?
when concerning the laws of their god.

[Emrys]

Sure they can, because there is no golden rule because there is no basis for the golden rule. It might be a good idea, but it is in no way mandatory.

Of course it's not mandatory, but if you ignore it you're in for a lot of trouble sooner or later. So as a wise and enlightenet society we better follow the golden rule or else we will pay the price sooner or later.

[Emrys]

You mean the golden rule as you have defined it. Making a printer print material that he finds objectionable is harmful to him, because you are making him violate his person principles.

That's something one can talk about

But what is so objectionable? Surely not the call for tolerance because that is a virtue it's the fact that it were gays who called for tolerance, ergo I have to conclude that he thinks gays are somewhat not worthy of tolerance and that shows, to me a profound lack of empathy or in other terms he is unable to apply the golden rule at least when homosexuals are concerned and that is something that should not be tolerated, like I said, no tolerance for intolerance.

However I agree that it was not a good thing done to the man, however I would have simply punished him by not ever buying one of his products again. But where does that lead to? is it really necessairy to split society down in the middle because of this?

I mean what this leads to is that christians and people without christian believes cannot coexist in one society.

And there comes the hub of it all, the wonderful gift of compromise but that's another problem christians cannot compromise so society is stuck in a deadlock.

and that's why you need a secular law making process because you need someone who is as neutral as possible to decide such conflicts.

[cass]

Let's follow your logic: If gay marriage were legalized, then polygamy would have to be. Once you begin to alter the traditional definition of marriage — under equal protection — you can't stop one alternative situation and then deny other alternative situations.

Then **** just hits the fan. And welcome to a really f'ed up society.

[8Ball2/JanG5]

marching? surely you mean mincing, actually that would make pure comedy genius, BEWARE THE ARMY OF THE GAYS

I know some pretty violent Gays. Hell, Humphrey Bogart played a gay in "In a Lonely Place" in the 1950's that looked like he'd provide as a one man army. He almost killed that dude with a rock.

[War Lord]

That's something one can talk about

But what is so objectionable? Surely not the call for tolerance because that is a virtue it's the fact that it were gays who called for tolerance, ergo I have to conclude that he thinks gays are somewhat not worthy of tolerance and that shows, to me a profound lack of empathy or in other terms he is unable to apply the golden rule at least when homosexuals are concerned and that is something that should not be tolerated, like I said, no tolerance for intolerance.

However I agree that it was not a good thing done to the man, however I would have simply punished him by not ever buying one of his products again. But where does that lead to? is it really necessairy to split society down in the middle because of this?

I mean what this leads to is that christians and people without christian believes cannot coexist in one society.

And there comes the hub of it all, the wonderful gift of compromise but that's another problem christians cannot compromise so society is stuck in a deadlock.

and that's why you need a secular law making process because you need someone who is as neutral as possible to decide such conflicts.

You can't determine what is objectionable for another person. If I find something objectionable, than that's it, it's objectionable to me.

[Sarge 2.0]

Let's follow your logic: If gay marriage were legalized, then polygamy would have to be. Once you begin to alter the traditional definition of marriage — under equal protection — you can't stop one alternative situation and then deny other alternative situations.

Then **** just hits the fan. And welcome to a really f'ed up society.I dunno, a soceity where two (or more) consenting adults can practice any kind of love that they wish seems like a pretty good soceity to me.

[cass]

I dunno, a soceity where two (or more) consenting adults can practice any kind of love that they wish seems like a pretty good soceity to me.

I guess a society that doesn't know how to spell society is a pretty good society to you as well.

[Darthphere]

I guess a society that doesn't know how to spell society is a pretty good society to you as well.


OMG! Nitpicking. Congrats Sarge, you won the argument.

[8Ball2/JanG5]

Nevermind his spelling, he has a point you nazi.

[cass]

Nevermind his spelling, he has a point you nazi.

No he has an opinion. "Nazi". Very original there.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Then **** just hits the fan. And welcome to a really f'ed up society.yeah, THEN you have a f***ed up society, as opposed to the Utopia we currently inhabit.
:rolleyes:

[TheSumOfGod]

I'll post this again, because it seems the gay-bashers on this site didn't read it:

Homosexuals are consenting adults, who have consentual relations with other consenting adults. The key word here is consent. Due to it's consentual nature, homosexuality (and bisexuality) is as valid a sexual orientation as heterosexuality.

Pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia, however, are rape, for one of the partners involved has not or can not consent.

Consent. Beyond the religious bulls**t, it's what it all boils down to.

[8Ball2/JanG5]

A little bit too easy to call you a "nazi" along the lines of "spelling nazi" when are appear as some strictly titan shooting down Sarge 2.0's argument with a non-sequitur and intending to make him look less intelligent.

You know, there are things you like learn from a "dumb or less fortunate person" anyway, like how to be humane.

[Sarge 2.0]

I guess a society that doesn't know how to spell society is a pretty good society to you as well.Homg spelling errors on the internets!?!?!?!

However will I survive after that eloquent counter point? :rolleyes:

[RogueLDN]

oh god this topic has gotten even further out of hand

[sinewave]

i was watching the daily show last night and jon stewart made some really good points in favor of gay marriage. his guest was bill bennett who's a conservative writer and radio show host and the two locked horns on the issue and it appeared that stewart won that debate. check out the video.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Bennett-gay-.mov

[Kritish]

Best. Thread. Ever.

[RogueLDN]

definatley, loving the early pages before the serious debate.

[Erzengel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/gay_village/pride_2004/gallery8/images/army.jpg

This is my weapon, this is my gun.....

[Kritish]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Michael-Jackson-With-Kids.jpg

[Darthphere]

We have the right to arm bears.

[Kritish]

We have the right to arm bears.

Not arms, BIG GUNS!! :o

[RogueLDN]

Not arms, BIG GUNS!! :o

We could always go the other route and arm extremely happy people.

THe GAY army.

[Emrys]

Let's follow your logic: If gay marriage were legalized, then polygamy would have to be. Once you begin to alter the traditional definition of marriage — under equal protection — you can't stop one alternative situation and then deny other alternative situations.

Then **** just hits the fan. And welcome to a really f'ed up society.

Utter nonsense, not even worth considering

[sinewave]

i was watching the daily show last night and jon stewart made some really good points in favor of gay marriage. his guest was bill bennett who's a conservative writer and radio show host and the two locked horns on the issue and it appeared that stewart won that debate. check out the video.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Bennett-gay-.mov

i just wanted to bump this post. it's worth watching.

[Danalys]

i've been thinking more and i think we should all be armed for the future. i'd get nothing done without arms.

[jaguarr]

i just wanted to bump this post. it's worth watching.

Stewart brutalized Bennett last night. My wife and I were cheering him on, right along with his studio audience.

jag

[Kritish]

They're making a cure for gayness. Gays are going to storm Alcatraz.

We tried to test it on Ryan Seacrest, he flew away.

[RogueLDN]

i've been thinking more and i think we should all be armed for the future. i'd get nothing done without arms.

funnily enough im awfully attached to mine.

[Danalys]

also the right to bear arms must be up held. i call yogi's so i can steal picnic baskets.

[Kritish]

I hope I get reincarnated as a house cat that lives in Paris with rich lesbians that stroke my fur all day.

[sinewave]

Stewart brutalized Bennett last night. My wife and I were cheering him on, right along with his studio audience.

jag

yeah, it was pretty brutal. none of bennett's points withstood stewart's brilliant logic. jon is really taking the reigns in terms of intelligent, progressive pundits.

[Danalys]

I hope I get reincarnated as a house cat that lives in Paris with rich lesbians that stroke my fur all day.
and each others.

[jaguarr]

yeah, it was pretty brutal. none of bennett's points withstood stewart's brilliant logic. jon is really taking the reigns in terms of intelligent, progressive pundits.

Yeah, when he wants to turn it on and really grill people, he's nearly unbeatable. He's made some very intelligent people (with very wrong ideas) sound incredibly fallible. :up:

jag

[Kritish]

and each others.

:up:

[sinewave]

Yeah, when he wants to turn it on and really grill people, he's nearly unbeatable. He's made some very intelligent people (with very wrong ideas) sound incredibly fallible. :up:

jag

yup. i wish he would have done that when rick santorum was a guest, but he let him off easy for some reason. santorum definitely deserves the same treatment that bennett got.

[screech_turbo]

yes. they should use flame-throwers.

[Kritish]

yes. they should use flame-throwers.

Ones that shoot pink fire. :up:

Make the guns look like dildos. :up:

[The Incredible Hulk]

:confused: http://www.comcast.net/news/health/index.jsp?cat=HEALTHWELLNESS&fn=/2006/06/26/421532.html&cvqh=itn_gay


WASHINGTON - Having several older brothers increases the likelihood of a man being gay, a finding researchers say adds weight to the idea that there is a biological basis for sexual orientation.
"It's likely to be a prenatal effect," said Anthony F. Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines, Canada, "This and other studies suggest that there is probably a biological basis for" homosexuality.
S. Marc Breedlove of Michigan State University said the finding "absolutely" confirms a physical basis.
"Anybody's first guess would have been that the older brothers were having an effect socially, but this data doesn't support that," Breedlove said in a telephone interview.
The only link between the brothers is the mother and so the effect has to be through the mother, especially since stepbrothers didn't have the effect, said Breedlove, who was not part of the research.
Bogaert studied four groups of Canadian men, a total of 944 people, analyzing the number of brothers and sisters each had, whether or not they lived with those siblings and whether the siblings were related by blood or adopted.
He reports in a paper appearing in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that having several biological older brothers increased the chance of a man being gay.
It's an effect that can be detected with one older brother and becomes stronger with three or four or more, Bogaert said in a telephone interview.
But, he added, this needs to be looked at in context of the overall rate of homosexuality in men, which he suggested is about 3 percent. With several older brothers the rate may increase from 3 percent to 5 percent, he said, but that still means 95 percent of men with several older brothers are heterosexual.
The effect of birth order on male homosexuality has been reported previously but Bogaert's work is the first designed to rule out social or environmental effects.
Bogaert said he concluded the effect was biological by comparing men with biological brothers to those with brothers to whom they were not biologically related.
The increase in the likelihood of being gay was seen only in those whose brothers had the same mothers, whether they were raised together or not, he said.
Men raised with several older step- or adopted brothers do not have an increased chance of being gay.
"So what that means is that the environment a person is raised in really makes not much difference," he said.
What makes a difference, he said, is having older brothers who shared the same womb and gestational experience, suggesting the difference is because of "some sort of prenatal factor."
One possibility, he suggests, is a maternal immune response to succeeding male fetuses. The mother may react to a male fetus as foreign but not to a female fetus because the mother is also female.
It might be like the maternal immune response that can occur when a mother has Rh-negative blood but her fetus has Rh-positive blood. Without treatment, the mother can develop antibodies that may attack the fetus during future pregnancies.
Whether that's what is happening remains to be seen, but it is a provocative hypothesis, said a commentary by Breedlove, David A. Puts and Cynthia L. Jordan, all of Michigan State.
The research was funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.

[Mentok]

A recent 5 minute study found the internet is what makes you gay.

[Carter]

Makes me glad I'm an only child.

[Erzengel]

1 older sister. Hah. :up:

[LEX]

I'm an only child and I'm still gay. :confused:

I declare the article...false. KA-CHING!

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'm an only child and I'm still gay. :confused:

I declare the article...false. KA-CHING!I assumed you had zero sexual urges seeing as how you joined in March and have over 20,000 posts.:confused:

[Carter]

Oh my god.....
20,000

[LEX]

I assumed you had zero sexual urges seeing as how you joined in March and have over 20,000 posts.:confused:
'Tis why I masturbate instead.

[Warhammer]

Good God, that's alot of posts.

Btw, I am an only child. :)
So Ha.

[Darthphere]

I assumed you had zero sexual urges seeing as how you joined in March and have over 20,000 posts.:confused:


OMG ZOINKS! THAT IS ****ING CRAZY!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[THWIP*]

I assumed you had zero sexual urges seeing as how you joined in March and have over 20,000 posts.:confused:


ZING! :)

[GoldenAgeHero]

that articlemakes no sense whatsoever. since the research was done on canadians, it should be more of a fact that canadians are just generally "gay". hence thier weak a$$ military.










this is a joke.

[Batty for Bats!]

I have 2 older brothers and I still have a thing for the ladies. :)

[THWIP*]

I have 2 older brothers and I still have a thing for the ladies. :)



I HAVE A "THING" FOR THE LADIES TOO.........I CALL IT A PENIS. :p