I was right! The Fallen is a reference to the character!

[Roaring_Hulk!]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/15053/1/REVENGE-OF-THE-TRANSFORMERS-MYTHOLOGY/Page1.html


I immediately brushed this off, knowing that the first film had no interest in established mythology. I assumed Bay would just keep building on his own, new Transformers story, and the pre-strike plot details I heard backed me up.

Egg, meet face.

Yesterday I heard from a trustworthy source with access to the production that all of my assumptions were wrong. The Fallen of the title, I was told, is in fact the Fallen of the comics.


:wow:

[Alex The Great]

cool
here's what it says.

The Transformers wiki (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fallen) provides backstory:

At the dawn of time, Primus created new life, the 13 original Transformers, to crew his planetary form into battle against his eternal nemesis Unicron. One of these 13, his original name now lost to the mists of time, turned against his siblings, his creator, and his universe, and betrayed them all.

...this guardian of entropy became obsessed with the darker side of chaos and death, and in the black place these urges led him, the betrayer found a new god, more suited to his nature. He turned against Primus and became the Fallen. Now he is a being of power, darkness, and absolute dedication to Unicron.

Here's what Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fallen_%28Transformers%29) says about him:

Around 6.5 million years ago, a test of the experimental "space bridge" matter-transport system on Cybertron liberated the Fallen from his prison, and he materialised on Cybertron, where he quickly recruited the Chaos Trinity, three mystically-inclined Decepticons - Bludgeon, Mindwipe and Bugly - into his employ. Abducting Transformers that he identified as possessing "genetic potential" within their sparks - Grimlock, Blitzwing, Jetfire and Hot Spot - the Fallen planned to use their energies to awaken Primus from his self-imposed slumber, thereby alerting Unicron to his location, allowing the world-eater to renew hostilities with his old enemy. An attack from combined Autobot and Decepticon forces led by Shockwave and Prowl disrupted his plans, and Primus himself reached out and promptly destroyed the Fallen.


UNICRON??? Primus??? oh....oh yes....

[Roaring_Hulk!]

UNICRON??? Primus??? oh....oh yes....

This is going to be epic. The first one was small time. This is going to be big! :word:

[The Avatar]

belongs in the news thread

[Roaring_Hulk!]

belongs in the news thread

Ok, I just posted it there as well.

I just thought this kinda deserved it's own thread, 'seeing it's rather big news. :oldrazz:

[tzarinna]

Nice find. :up:

[SuperFerret]

So... it's the Bible with robots?

[Roaring_Hulk!]

Nice find. :up:

Thanks! :word:

[Golgo-13]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/15053/1/REVENGE-OF-THE-TRANSFORMERS-MYTHOLOGY/Page1.html




:wow:

I hope this works. Bay is not known for directing intricate plots, like this 'Fallen' arc seems to be. Hopefully this is not a stand alone story as it seems too big for just one movie. In other words, i hope it runs into TF3. There was an early rumor that TF2 would end with a cliff hanger...i hope the rumor is true.

[dancing_on_fire]

Sounds cool, and since Jetfire has been confirmed i wouldn't be surprised if its partially true. But i won't believe it till an official synposis is released or more information is leaked verifying. It seems lately too much information has gotten out, so im going to really question everything.

[Avangarde]

If Bay is going in the direction of the Fallen then I tip my hat to him, I find it wonderful that they are referring to the comics for source material, and the War Within series was a kickarse series so this makes me all the more excited. Oh god imagine if Bludgeon is in this as well *fangasm*.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Sounds cool, and since Jetfire has been confirmed i wouldn't be surprised if its partially true. But i won't believe it till an official synposis is released or more information is leaked verifying. It seems lately too much information has gotten out, so im going to really question everything.

WHEN WAS JETFIRE CONFIRMED?????!!!!!!!! :wow:.

And i'll have to order War Within now!

[Golgo-13]

WHEN WAS JETFIRE CONFIRMED?????!!!!!!!! :wow:.



I believe his name was on the call-sheet. But like i stated before these names could be 'place holders'.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Well I hope its true, Jetfire is awesome in the comics, and bigger than Prime, though not quite as powerful as Prime or Ultra Magnus.

Autobot air support is needed :up:

[Nathan]

So... it's the Bible with robots?

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3289/optimusjesusnh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:hehe:

[lars573]

So... it's the Bible with robots?
Not really, more like Zurvanism with robots. Primus and Unicron being opposed but equal and all. The original 13 transformers, along with the covenant, are like angels.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Is WW available in TPB form in the UK does anyone know?

[lars573]

Look under collections


http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/The_War_Within:_The_Dark_Ages

[SuperFerret]

Not really, more like Zurvanism with robots. Primus and Unicron being opposed but equal and all. The original 13 transformers, along with the covenant, are like angels.

Basically that's what I was saying.

[Peter_Porker]

Do you really think that Michael Bay is going delve that deep into Transformers lore....almost seems too much to go from the first movie to this....

[Avangarde]

Is WW available in TPB form in the UK does anyone know?

War Within, being a Dreamwave comic, was rereleased by IDW in TPB, there are two volumes the first I think is just called War Within but the second is called War Within: The Dark Ages, the dark ages deals with The Fallen story arc.

[Casius--J]

Do you really think that Michael Bay is going delve that deep into Transformers lore....almost seems too much to go from the first movie to this....

My thoughts exactly, i dont know i'm not sure if i believe this news.

I suppose we'll see soon enough wont we!

[November Rain]

wow, this is epic....real good call...

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

War Within, being a Dreamwave comic, was rereleased by IDW in TPB, there are two volumes the first I think is just called War Within but the second is called War Within: The Dark Ages, the dark ages deals with The Fallen story arc.

Its only available from Amazon on import, which will be very expensive, so i'll wait and see were this leads before paying out for it.

[J.Howlett]

In a way, it does make sense to go this epic. Think about it. The first film had Megatron and the Decepitcons wanting to take over Earth (no matter how shoddy the script elements were). You can't go that route in the sequel, even with a new and improved Megatron.

You have to go beyond the Autobots and Decepitcons fighting it out over Earth. The other logical step is to have them fight it out over Cybertron but that doesn't work for a live action film because it would cost way too much and you take away the human element, especially Shia and Megan.

Going this route and possibly introducting an entity (Unicorn) that could devour the goals of not only the Autobots and our human characters, but the Decepitcons as well, is absolutely the way to go.

The fate of our world needs a much bigger threat than just having Megatron and his boys fighting it out with the Prime and the Autobots.

Introducing the herald to Unicron (The Fallen) and the possiblity of even introducing the first of the Transformers (Primus) is a wonderful idea.

I know alot of fans don't want Unicron but Bay and the writers aimed way too high with the first film with the stakes of that film. They really have no choice but to go the Unicron route...which opens up a whole host of story threads (The death of Prime, the rise of Galvatron, the rise of Rodimus Prime, etc...)

[lars573]

Basically that's what I was saying.
One problem being that Christianity isn't dualist. TF lore is. That is Primus and Unicron are opposed but equal. God and the devil aren't. The Zurvanist form of Zoroastrism (which elevates the angel of darkness to an equal but opposed force to Ahura Mazda) is more appropriate.

[tviceman]

In a way, it does make sense to go this epic. Think about it. The first film had Megatron and the Decepitcons wanting to take over Earth (no matter how shoddy the script elements were). You can't go that route in the sequel, even with a new and improved Megatron.

Why not? The first two spiderman movies were essentially the same - rescue girlfriend, stop villian. And both of those movies were spectacular. Bourne Identity movies? Each one was better than the last and, essentially, were still the same.

Going this route and possibly introducting an entity (Unicorn) that could devour the goals of not only the Autobots and our human characters, but the Decepitcons as well, is absolutely the way to go.

And then you have Pirates of the Caribbean 2 & 3. It'll likely be sloppy, silly, and none of it will make any sense unless you've been a devoted fan since 1984. It's just way too complicated to have any adequate character development, and becomes too far fetched to even want to imagine.

The fate of our world needs a much bigger threat than just having Megatron and his boys fighting it out with the Prime and the Autobots.


Once again, why? So much fighting was left unfinished and off screen in the first one. We're at the second of possibly many movies, and you already want to see the autobots and decepticons stop fighting each other. Personally, I don't think there was enough robot interaction to justify them teaming up now. Lets see an entire film full of autobots vs. decepticons. If you're in such a rush to go so massively epic, you'll miss all the fun stuff along the way.

Introducing the herald to Unicron (The Fallen) and the possiblity of even introducing the first of the Transformers (Primus) is a wonderful idea.


I saw Fantastic Four 2 last summer, and didn't find anything too exciting about Galactus. As far as Unicron goes, it would be even more silly to envision a planet sized transformer that can speak.

I know alot of fans don't want Unicron but Bay and the writers aimed way too high with the first film with the stakes of that film. They really have no choice but to go the Unicron route...which opens up a whole host of story threads (The death of Prime, the rise of Galvatron, the rise of Rodimus Prime, etc...)

And this is what really irks me the most about the hardcore devoted Transformer fans. They all feel like the new films have to play out exactly like the animated movie did. Everyone has already seen that story - lets not redo it. Prime doesn't have to die, Megatron doesn't have to be renamed, and nobody likes Rodimus anyways so please lets just tuck this one away and allow it to r.i.p.

[Ravsuh]

I honestly do not think this will involve the character The Fallen. I think the title revenge of The Fallen refers to how certain characters from the last movie have been destroyed or who have fallen in battle and they will return to get revenge, most notably Megatron. Plus, there is nothing established in the movie storyline for The Fallen to get revenge for. I honestly believe the story will be about Megatron's return, plus so many fans don't even know who The Fallen is, he wasn't even in the original G1 cartoon and he even doesn't have a toy released

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In a way, it does make sense to go this epic. Think about it. The first film had Megatron and the Decepitcons wanting to take over Earth (no matter how shoddy the script elements were). You can't go that route in the sequel, even with a new and improved Megatron.

You have to go beyond the Autobots and Decepitcons fighting it out over Earth. The other logical step is to have them fight it out over Cybertron but that doesn't work for a live action film because it would cost way too much and you take away the human element, especially Shia and Megan.

Going this route and possibly introducting an entity (Unicorn) that could devour the goals of not only the Autobots and our human characters, but the Decepitcons as well, is absolutely the way to go.

The fate of our world needs a much bigger threat than just having Megatron and his boys fighting it out with the Prime and the Autobots.

Introducing the herald to Unicron (The Fallen) and the possiblity of even introducing the first of the Transformers (Primus) is a wonderful idea.

I know alot of fans don't want Unicron but Bay and the writers aimed way too high with the first film with the stakes of that film. They really have no choice but to go the Unicron route...which opens up a whole host of story threads (The death of Prime, the rise of Galvatron, the rise of Rodimus Prime, etc...)


I agree with the rest but i want non of the highlighted suggestions to come to fruition, yet at least, and Prime's death should never be done within the first trilogy at least either.

[memphissuperman]

People...People...People....you are reading way!!!!!to much into this,but it is a mb so guess that is to be expected!


"The Fallen"=Decepticons....simple as that!

[luca_frontino]

I honestly do not think this will involve the character The Fallen. I think the title revenge of The Fallen refers to how certain characters from the last movie have been destroyed or who have fallen in battle and they will return to get revenge, most notably Megatron. Plus, there is nothing established in the movie storyline for The Fallen to get revenge for. I honestly believe the story will be about Megatron's return, plus so many fans don't even know who The Fallen is, he wasn't even in the original G1 cartoon and he even doesn't have a toy released

Indeed, I don't see a strong enough menace from him.
Just bring a giant-bad-a$$ version of Unicron (not the planetoid one) and make him destroying everything.
Jeez... If I was in Bay, I would put even the real Devastator alongside with Menasor in the Decepticons and Superion with Omega Supreme for the Autobots.

Who cares about the plot?
These are robots, for Zod sake!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/15053/1/REVENGE-OF-THE-TRANSFORMERS-MYTHOLOGY/Page1.html
:wow:

I dont believe the writter of that artical.

He got all his basic facts wrong.

Here's a quote from the artical.

A few days ago Paramount revealed that the subtitle for Transformers 2 was 'Revenge of the Fallen'. I groaned about it, assuming it was a terrible, generic title. Some TransFans began speculating that the Fallen of the title was actually a character from Transformers comics, an ancient Transformer who seems to play the Devil in their mythology. (A dude called Primus is like God. I think. Maybe the better correlation is that the Fallen is like Darkseid).

The Fallen was not the Devil of Transformers myth....if any one is its Unicron that fits that bill.

The writter of that artical cant even seem to make good comparisons to characters from other fictions because The Fallen isint even like DC's Darkseid...Darkseid was the ultimate ruller of Apokolips and followed no one.The Fallen follows the word of Unicron.

If anything The Fallen is more like a Herald of Galactus.

Now I'm not saying he's wrong about the movie but how can you trust the word of a site or the reporter that does his research on Wiki and still gets the basic facts wrong????

[CaptainGenerica]

Not being a hardcore TF fan, I haven't heard of the Fallen (though I'm more or less aware of Unicron and Primus), and so to me it sounds like the character is too obscure for Bay to A) have heard of him, and B) introduce him in the second movie.

I'm more inclined to think "the fallen" is short for "the ones who got their asses beat in the last movie"

[CaptainGenerica]

Not being a hardcore TF fan, I haven't heard of the Fallen (though I'm more or less aware of Unicron and Primus), and so to me it sounds like the character is too obscure for Bay to A) have heard of him, and B) introduce him in the second movie.

I'm more inclined to think "the fallen" is short for "the ones who got their asses beat in the last movie"

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Thing is though, Orci, Kurtzman and the other guy writing the movie ARE TF fans, so if The Fallen is in the movie, its because of them, not Bay IMO.

[Avangarde]

^Thing is though, Orci, Kurtzman and the other guy writing the movie ARE TF fans, so if The Fallen is in the movie, its because of them, not Bay IMO.

It is true that the writers are fans but not to that extent, my guess is when Bay and co went for the meeting with Hasbro he probably would have asked for a character in the mythos that is evil, one that is outside of Megatron and Unicron. I guess The Fallen was next in line, provided that it is The Fallen that the title is referring to.

[Roaring_Hulk!]

I guess The Fallen was next in line, provided that it is The Fallen that the title is referring to.

Yeah, it could still be all just misinformation.

[SOUPNAZZI]

I will believe all of this when I have my bucket of popcorn, sitting in my chair and watching the movie....

For now I will read this info as entertainment. No dis-respect to others and their sources.
I personally do not want to be lead to believe something, then watch the movie and it doesn't happen.. Don't want a let down..

But again this is good speculation and good reading..
Props to everyone for the info finding

[ThatDamnNinja]

Personally I think the folks who are so adamant that this ISN'T in reference to The Fallen of the comics are simply the people who, prior to this news getting out, had never personally heard of The Fallen. The reasoning is something like this:

"I have not heard of The Fallen, ergo The Fallen is obscure, ergo they wouldn't use him in a movie," which is obviously faulty logic."

Personally, I would be pretty effing surprised if it WASN'T The Fallen.

a.) The Fallen is the next logical step in the trilogy. Start with Megatron, ramp it up to The Fallen, and eventually to Unicron in Transformers 3. (Of course, methinks that we'll be seeing Megatron again, too)

b.) All the talk about this movie is that it's going to be absolutely epic in scope, that it'll blow the first one out of the water in that regards. How, pray tell, do you accomplish that with the same villains and the same stakes?

c.) Revenge of the Fallen, despite it's generic sound, isn't a title that just fell into their laps. They had to consciously choose this title. Picking a generic title that just happens to include the name of a pretty key villain would just be sloppy, and I hope they'd know better than that. If you're just going for a generic title indicating the return of the Decepticons, you could just as easily (more easily, even) come up with something that doesn't have the name of a key figure in it. That'd be like calling the next Batman movie The Dark Knight Returns. Yeah, in theory, they could, and it could just be a generic title, but it'd be sloppy to do that considering that it's already a title of significance.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

^Thing is though, Orci, Kurtzman and the other guy writing the movie ARE TF fans,.

Sure they are:whatever:

Just like they are Trekies too.

These are the two guys that first named both characters "Blackout" & "Frenzy" by the name of Soundwave in the early drafts of the first film.

They obviously dont know how to write for some of these characters.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Personally I think the folks who are so adamant that this ISN'T in reference to The Fallen of the comics are simply the people who, prior to this news getting out, had never personally heard of The Fallen. The reasoning is something like this:

"I have not heard of The Fallen, ergo The Fallen is obscure, ergo they wouldn't use him in a movie," which is obviously faulty logic."

I dont think your right.

I have a good number of friends and associates that are all big TF fans.....most not only know who "The Fallen" is but also loved the character and not a single one of them thinks that the title is in refrance to the character from the comics.

[Avangarde]

Personally I think the folks who are so adamant that this ISN'T in reference to The Fallen of the comics are simply the people who, prior to this news getting out, had never personally heard of The Fallen. The reasoning is something like this:

"I have not heard of The Fallen, ergo The Fallen is obscure, ergo they wouldn't use him in a movie," which is obviously faulty logic."

Personally, I would be pretty effing surprised if it WASN'T The Fallen.

a.) The Fallen is the next logical step in the trilogy. Start with Megatron, ramp it up to The Fallen, and eventually to Unicron in Transformers 3. (Of course, methinks that we'll be seeing Megatron again, too)

b.) All the talk about this movie is that it's going to be absolutely epic in scope, that it'll blow the first one out of the water in that regards. How, pray tell, do you accomplish that with the same villains and the same stakes?

c.) Revenge of the Fallen, despite it's generic sound, isn't a title that just fell into their laps. They had to consciously choose this title. Picking a generic title that just happens to include the name of a pretty key villain would just be sloppy, and I hope they'd know better than that. If you're just going for a generic title indicating the return of the Decepticons, you could just as easily (more easily, even) come up with something that doesn't have the name of a key figure in it. That'd be like calling the next Batman movie The Dark Knight Returns. Yeah, in theory, they could, and it could just be a generic title, but it'd be sloppy to do that considering that it's already a title of significance.

That's deep man, pretty deep, unfortunatly Bay doesn't do deep :csad:

[Avangarde]

Sure they are:whatever:

Just like they are Trekies too.

These are the two guys that first named both characters "Blackout" & "Frenzy" by the name of Soundwave in the early drafts of the first film.

They obviously dont know how to write for some of these characters.

When Orci and Kurtzman were penned to write the first one someone in the background should have called out in comical fashion "all aboard the bandwagon". You see a lot of it these days :down:

[Colossal Spoons]

I gotta start reading the comic books

[The_Hulk]

Yeah I don't think anyone should read too much into the title. It seems pretty obvious the fallen that are getting revenge in the next movie will be the Decepticons/Megatron. The first movie had a ton more emphasis put on developing the human characters as opposed to the big bots. And I expect more of the same with this one. Little stories with the humans and then giant frickin robots beating the hell out of each other.

[Avangarde]

I gotta start reading the comic books

If you want some recommendations let me know, there is a healthy amount floating around these days most of which are a good read.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Just a quick question, there is War Within Vol 2 on Amazon.co.uk, Is this the one with The Fallen in:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Transformers-War-Within-v-2/dp/1600100597/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214668896&sr=1-2

[Avangarde]

Yes that's the one, it's called the Dark ages.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Are you better reading the first one first though?

[Avangarde]

Crap can't remember, I'll check.

brb

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^thanks

[Avangarde]

Yes you do, and sorry I took so long.

[Sharkboy]

As someone who thinks Transformers was one of the biggest wastes of time ever. I hafto say this sounds truly epic and has pumped up my anticipation and hope for the sequel (which was already below zero)

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes you do, and sorry I took so long.

Thanks, have ordered volume 2, but cant get my hands on Vol.1 without paying as extortionate amount of money.

[Avangarde]

Thanks, have ordered volume 2, but cant get my hands on Vol.1 without paying as extortionate amount of money.

Don't you have a local comic book store close by? Those guys should be able to order in stock for you, if they don't start prank calling them with bomb threats :cmad:

[RonStoppablefan]

This would be pretty cool for the second one.

[Chris B]

The thing that makes me skeptical about the Fallen appearing in TF2 is that how could they really top it? I mean the character is very much a set-up for Unicron, which I think would be the only way you could top it. And since Bay has said before that they don't want to limit themselves to only three films makes me skeptical. For now, I'm leaning towards this simply being a revenge of Megatron storyline.

[Avangarde]

The thing that makes me skeptical about the Fallen appearing in TF2 is that how could they really top it? I mean the character is very much a set-up for Unicron, which I think would be the only way you could top it. And since Bay has said before that they don't want to limit themselves to only three films makes me skeptical. For now, I'm leaning towards this simply being a revenge of Megatron storyline.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I see Galvatron as a potential next step.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Don't you have a local comic book store close by? Those guys should be able to order in stock for you, if they don't start prank calling them with bomb threats :cmad:

I'll have to start asking them, their collection of TF comics is extrememly and dissapointingly small.

[Chris B]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I see Galvatron as a potential next step.

You mean as possible third movie storyline? It could work, but I think it also depends on what happens with Megatron in TF2. If he gets a significant boost in screentime, then I wouldn't mind. But if he doesn't return until the end again, then I would want them to hold off.

[Anubis Raptor]

This would be pretty cool for the second one.


Yeah it would.

-Mass D.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Just got War Within V.2 a few weeks ago, havent read it yet, but skimmed through it and The Fallen looks like he is hardly in it, not to mention Grimlock and Jetfire seem to be the heroes of the story. As i said i skimmed through, so maybe wrong.

[AnorexicBatman]

This is the only ray of hope for this movie otherwise it looks to be heading towards JOKE MOVIE of the year i.e. the one movie EVERYONE hates and makes fun off

In other words, the ANTI OR BIZZARO TDK!!!

[DoctorJones]

This is the only ray of hope for this movie otherwise it looks to be heading towards JOKE MOVIE of the year i.e. the one movie EVERYONE hates and makes fun off

In other words, the ANTI OR BIZZARO TDK!!!

Funny, I thought all the trolls disappeared once the movie was a huge hit. This quote is a fart in the face of a box office hurricane.

Anyway, Simon Furman, who is writing the ROTF comic for IDW, confirms the Fallen is in the movie.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17412

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Funny, I thought all the trolls disappeared once the movie was a huge hit. This quote is a fart in the face of a box office hurricane.

Anyway, Simon Furman, who is writing the ROTF comic for IDW, confirms the Fallen is in the movie.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17412

I still dont see that as confirmation.

To begin with Furman has a nasty habit of pulling the legs of his readers in interviews.

Second he say's he has the screne play but cant use it yet in his follow up project because he's not allowed too.

There's too much doubt in this info for me to trust it.

[Avangarde]

I have to agree with sto vo kor, as far as we know the new story could be apart of an entirely unrelated continuity much like War Within.

[Avangarde]

Hmm a report from IDW Editor-in-Chief Chris Mowry has revealed more info on The Fallen.

“[We're going to] explore the background of The Fallen — the main villain of the movie — as well as expand on the ‘Reign of Starscream’ story that we’re doing and tie everything in to what this next movie is going to be,”

“The next movie starts out with just tons of action and there’s obviously going to be a lot of questions, so we’re hoping to answer some of those beforehand.”

It now sounds like this will in fact be a new comic edition to the live action movie universe of Transformers. In a previous post from Simon Furman he stated that they already have the script for TF: RotF so they can release comics that don't contradict the movie, and it sounds like they want to coincide the release of this comic with the movie to provide people with some back ground on The Fallen and the history of Cybertron. Very interesting stuff, I guess it doesn't matter if the history of the Fallen doesn't match up with that of the War Within story, but I hope they wont screw with the plot of who the Fallen is and his link to Unicron.

http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-on-fallen-tf-destiny.html

[Julio Alejandro]

Isn't Jazz returning?

[SymbioteKal-El]

^I am hoping so, one of my favourite characters, in the movie also.

[Unholyjustice]

With all the hype of "the fallen" you'd figure there would be pics or concept art floating around.

[Colossal Spoons]

^Yeah, I know. Gotta have patience I guess

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

We'll see him soon enough I think.

[Unholyjustice]

I hope so cause as of now I don't see the fallen being in this movie

[Venom]

He better be. He's in the title.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

He better be. He's in the title.

Only if its a refrance to the character.

[Venom]

You sound like you don't want him in it

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You sound like you don't want him in it

Thats a "loaded" statement.:grin:

Let me explain........The way I ment my last post was just to point out that the sub-title of the film by no means "Dictates" that The Fallen is in reference to the character by that same name.It can just as easily be a way of describing any of the known characters from the first film.

But do I want the character "The Fallen" to be in TF 2??????

No I dont.....and its not because I dont like the character.As a matter of fact I like him very much.

For me I think "The Character" will lead Bay to over indulge his percent for explosions and fire.And I think that it will end up being detrimental to the story since we all know that Bay has a habit of focusing more on the explosions and action in his films then he does in the story or the acting.

I also feel that there are a whole host of characters that are far more deserving of the "Live Action Treatment" then a character that only showed up in one comic book mini series.

[Avangarde]

For me I think "The Character" will lead Bay to over indulge his percent for explosions and fire.And I think that it will end up being detrimental to the story since we all know that Bay has a habit of focusing more on the explosions and action in his films then he does in the story or the acting.


We are talking about Michael Bay right?

:o

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Thats a "loaded" statement.:grin:

Let me explain........The way I ment my last post was just to point out that the sub-title of the film by no means "Dictates" that The Fallen is in reference to the character by that same name.It can just as easily be a way of describing any of the known characters from the first film.

But do I want the character "The Fallen" to be in TF 2??????

No I dont.....and its not because I dont like the character.As a matter of fact I like him very much.

For me I think "The Character" will lead Bay to over indulge his percent for explosions and fire.And I think that it will end up being detrimental to the story since we all know that Bay has a habit of focusing more on the explosions and action in his films then he does in the story or the acting.

I also feel that there are a whole host of characters that are far more deserving of the "Live Action Treatment" then a character that only showed up in one comic book mini series.

I think The Fallen is actually a good way to go for the series, Megatron being the main bad guy again would easily be too redundant, and its too early to consider the likes of Unicron and Galvatron IMO.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

We are talking about Michael Bay right?

:o

Yep

I think The Fallen is actually a good way to go for the series, Megatron being the main bad guy again would easily be too redundant, and its too early to consider the likes of Unicron and Galvatron IMO.

Well there's that school of thought as well.

But I still stand by my opinion.

I think that there are other more deserving characters that should be included in a live action film before the fallen.

But thats not saying that I hate the idea.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yep



Well there's that school of thought as well.

But I still stand by my opinion.

I think that there are other more deserving characters that should be included in a live action film before the fallen.

But thats not saying that I hate the idea.

Thats fair enough, but non of those characters could ramp up the stakes like The Fallen can, other than Galvatron and Unicron, both of which are too early to introduce IMO.

When you think about it, the TF rogue gallery isnt that expansive. So I'm glad they have gone for a villain who will up the stakes from what the heroes have already faced.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Thats fair enough, but non of those characters could ramp up the stakes like The Fallen can, other than Galvatron and Unicron, both of which are too early to introduce IMO.

When you think about it, the TF rogue gallery isnt that expansive. So I'm glad they have gone for a villain who will up the stakes from what the heroes have already faced.

Thats a cop out.And I dont mean it as an insult to you but its pure BS.

With good writting any of the exsisting characters could be made into a formidible threat.

Just look at what Dreamwave did with Sunstorm.

They took a character, born out of an animation error, and turn him into a great character.

Its the writting not the character.

[Avangarde]

Depending on what direction they take the movie, it would be perfect to give more focus on Starscream as the bad guy for TF2. Plus the introduction of Soundwave could give us a new angle in the Decepticon chain of command.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Depending on what direction they take the movie, it would be perfect to give more focus on Starscream as the bad guy for TF2. Plus the introduction of Soundwave could give us a new angle in the Decepticon chain of command.

Pretty good ideas.:grin:

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Thats a cop out.And I dont mean it as an insult to you but its pure BS.

With good writting any of the exsisting characters could be made into a formidible threat.

Just look at what Dreamwave did with Sunstorm.

They took a character, born out of an animation error, and turn him into a great character.

Its the writting not the character.

I dont see it as a cop out, and the writing for The Fallen in the movie may be superb, so I persoanlly dont see were you are going with that.

Bay wanted a villain that would raise the stakes, that would strike fear into both The Autobots and Decepticons, other than Unicron, there is only really The Fallen IMO.

Depending on what direction they take the movie, it would be perfect to give more focus on Starscream as the bad guy for TF2. Plus the introduction of Soundwave could give us a new angle in the Decepticon chain of command.

I think Starscream and Soundwave will get a lot of attention in the sequel, at least thats the way it seems.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I dont see it as a cop out, and the writing for The Fallen in the movie may be superb, so I persoanlly dont see were you are going with that.

You mis-understood me.

You said that you were happy with them useing the Fallen because you feel that the "the TF rogue gallery isnt that expansive. So I'm glad they have gone for a villain who will up the stakes from what the heroes have already faced"

And I'm saying that any of the known Decepticon could fill the role if written correctly.

Bay wanted a villain that would raise the stakes, that would strike fear into both The Autobots and Decepticons, other than Unicron, there is only really The Fallen IMO.

Again with the right Writter and of the known cons could fit that bill.

Even some of the comic only characters would be great.



I think Starscream and Soundwave will get a lot of attention in the sequel, at least thats the way it seems.


I hope so.

[Venom]

You might get your wish Steve-vo-kor. Robert Orci says it might swing either way

From Orci's question thread:
---------------------------
Qn: Is there a robot called The Fallen? If so is he playing a role in Transformers Revenge of the Fallen?

Ans: Maybe. On the other hand, Fallen may simply be a synonym for the defeated side.
---------------------------

[cosmicherosa]

Shouldn't this be changed to "Fallen Speculation Thread" or something? I don't believe anything unless I see it, so I am taking a lot of what is out there from "insiders" as crap until confirmed.

[Avangarde]

Shouldn't this be changed to "Fallen Speculation Thread" or something? I don't believe anything unless I see it, so I am taking a lot of what is out there from "insiders" as crap until confirmed.

That's a good point. While it's fun to speculate, Bay has taken the fun out of hype for a movie with leaks coupled with the whole misinfomation tag, sending fans in circles. I guess we wont get anything solid until a trailer is released :csad:

[cosmicherosa]

I just HATE knowing that some of the cool stuff I keep hearing may not make the cut. The whole Jetfire wormhole and the Constructicons would be awesome, but I have a feeling that Bay is making a VERY big mistake doing this. Lot of people are going to be let down, and the negative thread will swell.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You might get your wish Steve-vo-kor.-

Steve-vo-kor?????

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You might get your wish Steve-vo-kor.-

Steve-vo-kor?????

[Venom]

whoops.

Sto-vo sounds like steve

;P

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You mis-understood me.

You said that you were happy with them useing the Fallen because you feel that the "the TF rogue gallery isnt that expansive. So I'm glad they have gone for a villain who will up the stakes from what the heroes have already faced"

And I'm saying that any of the known Decepticon could fill the role if written correctly.


Oh right, yes I see were you are coming from now, personally, I think Shockwave could have filled the role also, with Megatron coming back towards the end to try and re-claim leadership of the Decepticons.


Again with the right Writter and of the known cons could fit that bill.

Even some of the comic only characters would be great.

True on both accounts.

I hope so.

Me too, love both Starscream and Soundwave.

I just HATE knowing that some of the cool stuff I keep hearing may not make the cut. The whole Jetfire wormhole and the Constructicons would be awesome, but I have a feeling that Bay is making a VERY big mistake doing this. Lot of people are going to be let down, and the negative thread will swell.

You know you could be right here, if people start expecting stuff, and then dont see, this could create a negative feeling towards the movie.

[cosmicherosa]

It's happened MANY times before. I think the most recent for me, related to this site, was X-men 3. The movie blew, but I remember when I first heard about the Sentinels being in it, and I was all like "They can't F dat up! Tons of resources, tons of perfect translations from the old X-me cartoon. Can't go wrong!" But alas they did, and all we saw was a head. That was within the first five minutes, and it pissed me off all movie.

It would be the same if they really did kill Arcee early on in the movie. Or Devastator is on-screen for 5 minutes before being completely destroyed. These characters have way too much going for them to get over-hyped about and possibly let-down.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I know what you mean about X3, but that being a ****e movie didnt help things either.

I'm not liking the most recent news about ROTF, but we'll have to see i guess.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Oh right, yes I see were you are coming from now, personally, I think Shockwave could have filled the role also, with Megatron coming back towards the end to try and re-claim leadership of the Decepticons.

I would love to see Shockwave try to take over.....the only problem I see with that idea is that its been done a few ties in the comics.

But it would still be a great idea.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I would love to see Shockwave try to take over.....the only problem I see with that idea is that its been done a few ties in the comics.

But it would still be a great idea.

I wouldnt see that as a problem to be honest, especially to the GA. Shockwave is powerful enough to defeat Megatron (and has done!) and Prime, so he could have been an option, i'll admit.

But I dont know, something about The Fallen excites me a lot, as long as he is one bot and not an army as suggested.