The New Catwoman Casting Thread

[Hunter Rider]

Like I said, I know who Gary Oldman is.

If Gary Oldman and Michael Caine are big stars, then Marion Cotillard is as well.

:huh: Michael Caine has been around decades and been a in a number of hits, Oldman has had a number of roles in well known movies, Marion Cotillard won an Oscar in a movie that was pretty under the radar in terms of mainstream success, what other big roles has she had ?

[Laderlappen]

It's not strange, her movies are usually hits, even if they need to go to DVD to make a profit, that is a huge part of the business these days, her last 2 Summer blockbuster made huge money, she is probably the biggest female draw in film right now.She makes flops all the time. Alexander lost like 100 million $.
My original point was she isnt a big box-office magnet you make her out to be. Forget everything else.

[Ace of Knaves]

Michael Caine and Gary Oldman have been massive stars for about 50-60 years. I think you are confusing "high profile" for "big stars". Yea they are not seen prancing around Hollywood or in newspapers and magazines all the time, they prefer the quiet life. But make no mistake, they are two of the biggest actors on the planet.

[Laderlappen]

:huh: Michael Caine has been around decades and been a in a number of hits, Oldman has had a number of roles in well known movies, Marion Cotillard won an Oscar in a movie that was pretty under the radar in terms of mainstream success, what other big roles has she had ?You keep calling Michael Caine just as popular as Johnny Depp and Angelina Jolie which is ridiculous. So if that is true, Marion must be a big star as well.

[Ace of Knaves]

You missing the point. Michael Caine and Gary Oldman aren't seen on TV or in stupid celebrity magazines everyday. Doesn't mean they are not big stars. Go and ask any actor in the world about Caine and Oldman and I guarantee they would cite them as inspirations or favourite actors.

[Hunter Rider]

She makes flops all the time. Alexander lost like 100 million $.
My original point was she isnt a big box-office magnet you make her out to be. Forget everything else.

Alexander was not on her shoulders, and you keep ignoring that she has hits as a lead that other actresses simply do not have, plus you said "Box office poison" which is just flat out erroneous.

You keep calling Michael Caine just as popular as Johnny Depp and Angelina Jolie which is ridiculous. So if that is true, Marion must be a big star as well.

This just doesn't make sense, i never said Caine was as big a star Depp or Jolie, I just said that most ppl knew who he was prior to BB, unlike Collitard who is a relative unknown with no hit movies on her CV.

[Laderlappen]

Michael Caine and Gary Oldman have been massive stars for about 50-60 years. I think you are confusing "high profile" for "big stars". Yea they are not seen prancing around Hollywood or in newspapers and magazines all the time, they prefer the quiet life. But make no mistake, they are two of the biggest actors on the planet.No I think its you who are being confusing.
My(hopefully) last point: THAT was what I meant. I think 'Big Stars' means different to you and I. Big stars to me is mainstreem stars. Like Will Smith, Angelina Jolie, Johnny Depp, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, you know what Im saying. Big actors(none highprofile actors, but definetly not unknown): Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, Marion Cotillard.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I see what you are saying, but Cotillard is no way in the same league as Caine and Oldman, not yet at least. Actresses who I would put in the same league as them are like Meryl Streep and Dame Judi Dench. The older generation of "big stars". You younguns might not know who they are but there is no doubt that they are in the top tier of Hollywood.

[Laderlappen]

Alexander was not on her shoulders, and you keep ignoring that she has hits as a lead that other actresses simply do not have, plus you said "Box office poison" which is just flat out erroneous. Sure thing doesnt mean some movies went well. I can give you many examples of her movies that didnt went well. Which she was the main star in. Look at A Mighty Heart. She was the star, it got very good reviews, and cost very little to make. Still it flopped.

[Brian Braddock]

This is like an offshoot of the age old 'Movie Star' vs 'Character actor' debate.

[Laderlappen]

Yea I see what you are saying, but Cotillard is no way in the same league as Caine and Oldman, not yet at least. Actresses who I would put in the same league as them are like Meryl Streep and Dame Judi Dench. The older generation of "big stars". You younguns might not know who they are but there is no doubt that they are in the top tier of Hollywood.Thank you finally we can understand eachother. Maybe she isnt as big as Caine or Oldman but that doesnt matter. None of them are big stars(what I mean big stars). Its kinda hard to compare them. Caine and Oldman are kinda legends, while Marions is the new big thing. If we're have to compare her to someone, compare her to Aaron and Maggie.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea that's a better comparison. :D

[Hunter Rider]

Sure thing doesnt mean some movies went well. I can give you many examples of her movies that didnt went well. Which she was the main star in. Look at A Mighty Heart. She was the star, it got very good reviews, and cost very little to make. Still it flopped.

A Mighty Heart got good reviews which = good WOM and therefore it made it's money back with cinema and DVD combined, it was a small character drama with subject matter many would find depressing, a flop is when a film loses considerable money. You said "Box Office Poison"..I am guessing b/c you badly want Collitard for the role.

[Hunter Rider]

Yea that's a better comparison. :D

I don't really see it as so, to be the new big thing don't you need a body of work that features well known performances at least within the regular cinema going audience ? Aaron is a name that ppl know, as is Maggie with roles like Sherry Baby, Secretary, World Trade center and Mona Lisa Smile, Collitard has one role that had any real awareness to it.

I am not saying she wouldn't make a good Catwoman and may well get the role if it even exists, but right now she is very much under the public's radar.

[protoctista]

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1743/catwomandt9.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/catwomandt9.png/1/w450.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img509/catwomandt9.png/1/)

[Brian Braddock]

There's definately a resemblance between herself and Hughes' Selina.

[Hunter Rider]

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1743/catwomandt9.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/catwomandt9.png/1/w450.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img509/catwomandt9.png/1/)

Another good presentation, she certainly has the eyes.

[Laderlappen]

I am guessing b/c you badly want Collitard for the role.No definetly not. I dont have this as a reason for not wanting Jolie. I just disagree with you saying Jolie will make a movie a sure thing succeding, since many of her movies hasnt been big hits exactly.

Aaron is a name that ppl know, as is Maggie with roles like Sherry Baby, Secretary, World Trade center and Mona Lisa Smile, Collitard has one role that had any real awareness to it.'Love Me If You Dare' and 'A Very Long Engagement', but that one role made huge difference in her career.

Edit: A Good Year, and Big Fish was also kinda big movies though her roles wasnt the best.

[Hunter Rider]

No definetly not. I dont have this as a reason for not wanting Jolie. I just disagree with you saying Jolie will make a movie a sure thing succeding, since many of her movies hasnt been big hits exactly.


No I didn't say that, you said she was box office poison when she has a lot of hits, I simply refuted, with facts, that she is one of the main if not the main, female draw in film right now, I clearly said more than once that no Batman sequel needs a big name after TDK.


'Love Me If You Dare' and 'A Very Long Engagement', but that one role made huge difference in her career.

Ive never heard of the first and Audrey Tatou was the main female lead in the other. Of course it has made a difference but there is still much to do before she is a name known amongst most film goers.

[Laderlappen]

Ive never heard of the first and Audrey Tatou was the main female lead in the other. Of course it has made a difference but there is still much to do before she is a name known amongst most film goers.And thats why one can compare her to Aaron and Maggie.

[Hunter Rider]

And thats why one can compare her to Aaron and Maggie.

Maggie and especially Aaron have a much greater mainstream awareness.

[protoctista]

I agree that Marion Cotillard is an unknown to mainstream audiences. Even La Vie En Rose hasn't been seen by anyone but those who follow movies religiously/have an interest in Édith Piaf or foreign cinema. Some people might have heard of her name. Some people might vaguely connect her to A Good Year, or to A Very Long Engagement. But yes, she is an unknown.

But surely that is exactly what we want for the Catwoman?

She is a character that is going to appear from literally nowhere in terms of the continuity of the series. Even the Joker was forewarned in Batman Begins, and having now reached the third film, there is a strongly established world in which Catwoman will arrive into. She is a character that is a real mystery; which is part of her appeal to Batman in some ways, but should also be her appeal to the audience. If the large majority of the audience doesn't recognise the actress, then the character is going to have a certain element of mystery in being set amongst actors and characters that everyone is familiar with.

She can arrive on the scene and no-one will have a clue what's going to happen - she'll be a total wildcard.

If an actress that people are acquainted with turns up in the film, audiences can slip into comfortable expectation - they know what they're going to get from Angelina Jolie, Kate Beckinsale et al - it's nothing new. It can be a fantastic performance, but there will always be an element of the audience's mindset that knows what they're going to be getting.

But some hot French actress that everyone's talking about, playing a kinky catburglar in black spandex?

In the same way that Catwoman appears from nowhere, and upsets the established order within the world of the franchise, she should appear from nowhere in the minds of the audience. Who is this woman?

I want a wild-card. I want something excitingly unknown, and dangerously unprecedented. Because that is what Catwoman is, and that is what our expectations going into the cinema should be.

[Hunter Rider]

I don't particularly want an unknown, I don't really care either way, I'm not a "Nolanite" but after TDK i would have faith in him choosing the right person, regardless of how well known they were on either end of the scale.

[Ace of Knaves]

"Well known" or "unknown" just isn't a factor to me. I mean, how can these two factors make any difference to a performance? Well obviously theres a chance that if someone is "unknown" they could be "unknown" because they are ****. But all i'm bothered about is the final product, and to me it doesn't matter if they are A-list or Z-list as long as they get it right I'll be happy.

[protoctista]

It won't affect their performance at all.

I wasn't referring to the effect of being well-known/unknown on performance credibility. I was referring to its effect on audience perception before seeing the film, upon entering the cinema, and in the first few scenes in which Catwoman/Selina Kyle is present.

EDIT: As well as, coming out of the cinema, retrospective.



An actor's status amongst cinema-goers is an important factor in the way that the film is pereived, but also in the way that the character is perceived. People make conceptions about a character before a film based on what they know of the actor - just think of James Bond being cast as Daniel Craig and the effect that had on people walking into the film.

[Ace of Knaves]

Oh right I get what you're saying. But i wouldn't let that effect my judgement, but yes I bet a lot of people do.

[protoctista]

Yeah I was talking about mainstream audiences

[Laderlappen]

To be honest, who cares if the mainstrem audience dont know who she is? I dont think it would affect the box-office like at all. I think actors' fame has way less affect on the box-office than what people think. Anyway its more important to make as good movie as possible.Maggie and especially Aaron have a much greater mainstream awareness.Come on there isnt much difference. Marion's Edith Piaf is a bigger and better role than Maggie or Aaron has ever played. She won a bloody oscar. Alot of people became aware of her BECAUSE she won an oscar. Even if Maggie and Aaron are more famous(though I disagree), they are not so famous that you could call them 'much more famous'.

[Ace of Knaves]

You could say they are more famous now I suppose. Solely to do with TDK I might add.

[Laderlappen]

Well sure maybe now but before they was cast.

[flickchick85]

Ive never heard of the first and Audrey Tatou was the main female lead in the other. Of course it has made a difference but there is still much to do before she is a name known amongst most American film goers.
Fixed. Hunter, it's true that most American moviegoers didn't know who she was 'till La Vie En Rose, but she WAS already famous internationally. Love Me If You Dare, even though you're not familiar with it, was a big hit overseas (as were the Taxi movies, though who knows why) and she won a French Academy Award for A Very Long Engagement, after she already had two previous nominations for other roles- Tautou wasn't the only draw for that film (though she was still indeed the bigger star). I've actually heard her referred to a couple of times as "The Angelina Jolie of France." Remember, Nolan is a fan of international cinema, and he does like to cast international stars that America might not be so familiar with (ala Ken Watanabe and Cillian Murphy).

And again, over the next year, a lot more Americans are going to be familiar with her. Public Enemies is almost a guaranteed hit (and based on the script I read, I'd say she's got the biggest role after Bale and Depp), and Nine is probably gonna be the most talked-about musical since Chicago. Then she's doing The Rivals with Nicole Kidman. Cotillard's not just a flash-in-the-pan that's gonna have people saying "who?" in 3 years. She's here to stay, and her star is only gonna rise.

Not to mention the Oscar (and every other award under the sun) that she won wasn't just for some performance - it was a performance that's been hailed by critics around the world as one of the greatest in the history of cinema. That's not something easily forgotten or shrugged off.


For the record, I don't think it really matters if American audiences know her or not, as long has she's a great actress who can fit into the league of actors Nolan has assembled for this series and is right for the role. I'm just pointing out that there's a valid argument against the "But nobody knows who she is!" camp.

[jmc]

^ Yep, her star is about to rise globally, this whole 'she's not known enough to American audiences' crap will subside, very soon she'll be up there with other French actors like Jean Reno and Audrey Tatou in terms of global awareness, except I'm betting she'll be much bigger.

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Just to throw another (maybe) new name out there, has anyone thought about Lizzy Caplan? And yes, I do realize she isn't an A-lister.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6593/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/w267.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/)

[Laderlappen]

I got a big crush on Lizzy Caplan. She's just LOVE.

[batboy99]

Ive only seen her in cloverfield, but I loved her in it, shes a hottie

[Crook]

I like her and she's cute, but I don't picture her as Selina at all.

[[A]]

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6593/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/w267.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/)

Is that the one that exploded? If so, I like her :up:

[Ace of Knaves]

Is she the one that went "POP!" :D

[[A]]

haha precisely! she's kinda cute--looked better in the movie than in that picture, IMO

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea, she looks about 50 years old there.

[batboy99]

Marion Cotillard manip in the works!

[jmc]

Just to throw another (maybe) new name out there, has anyone thought about Lizzy Caplan? And yes, I do realize she isn't an A-lister.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6593/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/w267.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/)

I have no idea who this woman is. :huh:

[[A]]

You can always use this pretty little helpful thingy called..............the internet!!:woot:

[batboy99]

JMC, have you seen cloverfield?

[regwec]

Could we have Angelina Jolie's brain inserted into Adriana Lima's lovely little head?

[[A]]

Could we have Angelina Jolie's brain inserted into Adriana Lima's lovely little head?

That would screw Lima's virgin-till-I-get-married plan

[cerealkiller182]

For the sake of other suggestions

Georgia Lyman- an accomplished up and comer theater actress and really good on Showtimes Brotherhood

http://www.georgialyman.com/index.html

[regwec]

That would screw Lima's virgin-till-I-get-married plan
But no one man deserves to be quite that priviliged. It's just not reasonable.

[[A]]

Georgia Lyman- an accomplished up and comer theater actress and really good on Showtimes Brotherhood

She looks tough enough.

[jmc]

JMC, have you seen cloverfield?

Nope, I don't care much for those Godzilla type monster movies.

[protoctista]

^ Yeah but it's SHAKEY CAM!

[Golgo-13]

Just to throw another (maybe) new name out there, has anyone thought about Lizzy Caplan? And yes, I do realize she isn't an A-lister.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6593/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/w267.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img127/lizzycaplanphotosja3.jpg/1/)

She's also currently in HBO's series Trueblood. I like her, but i can't see her as Catwoman.

[protoctista]

Ahem.

Casting suggestions have to be presented in collage format now.

It's all the rage.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1743/catwomandt9.png


And yes that was just a poor excuse to re-bang the Cotillard drum...

*drools at the inuendous implications*

[Laderlappen]

Honestly, it is the obvious choice!

[Golgo-13]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/SanaaLathan-SGS-004951.jpg

I still say Sanaa trumps Rosario Dawson in every department.

[Cancer4TheCure]

So...many....hot....photos...hahahha

[gwynplaine]

So...many....hot....photos...hahahha
Lol:woot:. Better than long posts.

[[A]]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/SanaaLathan-SGS-004951.jpg

I still say Sanaa trumps Rosario Dawson in every department.

I'm with ya :up:

[batboy99]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/SanaaLathan-SGS-004951.jpg

I still say Sanaa trumps Rosario Dawson in every department.Sanaa would be great too, but i still prefer rosario

[Ace of Knaves]

Is she the one in AvP? All the acting in that film was crap so I wouldn't put her any where near Rosario untill I see a better performance from her.

[CaptainClown]

Sanaa and Rosario are a no for me. Both of them seem to just piss me off.

[Ace of Knaves]

That Sanaa does, on the commentary on AvPs special features she shows what an idiot she really is.

[protoctista]

I'm perfectly fine with a latina actress... but neither of those suggestions do anything for me acting wise. I'm with Captain Clown, they piss me off.

[batboy99]

Neither of them are latina( i dont think)

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Neither of them are latina( i dont think)

Rosario Dawson is Afro-Cuban and Puerto Rican. I don't know about Lathan. As far as I know she is just black.

[batboy99]

Well, Rosario looks more black than latina IMO

Id still love to see Rosario if they go ''that'' route, or Paula Patton

[cerealkiller182]

Really? I think she looks more latina

I've always loved Rosario so i could totally see her as Catwoman, shes just not my first choice. Third choice

[batboy99]

I always thought she was black until about a year ago. Shes on my list, but there are other actresses who would better suit the role and would just be....better.

[CaptainClown]

I don't care what their race is, both of those actresses just really really piss me off. There is something about them that makes me hit a baby.

[Mercurius]

Ahem.

Casting suggestions have to be presented in collage format now.

It's all the rage.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1743/catwomandt9.png


And yes that was just a poor excuse to re-bang the Cotillard drum...

*drools at the inuendous implications*


O thank you so much. :woot: She has my vote; Cotillard is just perfect (also for the role).

[The Guard]

Her father is an Italian mobster. She's Italian.

[batboy99]

your point?

[kid dropper]

i dont like that falcone is her father b.s. . i hate when they have to link everything like that. its part of why 'Heroes" sucks so bad

[kid dropper]

hey just realized the same writer is responsible for the catwoman/falcone connection and the idiocy of heroes... way to go jeph!

[protoctista]

I never liked that connection either.


He's a question though;

Should Catwoman appear in the Nolan franchise fully formed or should we see her become Catwoman (like, how she started out, wear she got her gear from, her background etc).

I like that in Nolan's films some instrumental characters dont require an explanation; Gordon, The Joker, Alfred, Lucius Fox - they just are. Should Catwoman's first appearance in the film be as the fully-costumed thief - or should we see her start out, and gradually become the Catwoman we know and love?

[batboy99]

I dont think we need a whole ''origin'' story for catwoman. She should already be catwoman and during the movie, i can show us how she became catwoman or somethingl ike that.

[flickchick85]

I agree. I'd love it if she's been the East End Cat for a while but was just too "small time" to make it onto Batman's radar (getting back the possessions of The Rich of Gotham would probably be pretty low on his priority list) until they cross paths.

And I'd prefer it if her origins remained rather mysterious. I mean, they should allude to certain hardships she may have faced, but I think the mystique would add to Bruce's interest.

[batboy99]

Marion Cotillard as Catwoman
My last manip for a while
http://fc57.deviantart.com/fs38/i/2008/316/2/5/J__mappelle_Catwoman_by_batboy99.jpg

[protoctista]

I'm not diminishing what you've done at all. It's brilliant, and I like it a lot,





But whilst we're on the subject of Marion Cotillard manips; I really like the one below. The leather mask looks great, and the suit is how I would interpret Catwoman's costume.

The problem with this is that you can't see much of Cotillard's beauty.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/catwoman2.jpg

[Golgo-13]

Is she the one in AvP? All the acting in that film was crap so I wouldn't put her any where near Rosario untill I see a better performance from her.

She's had many great performances. AVP sucked. Any and everybody in it looked bad. She's a Yale trained actress. I personally think her and Lance's performance in Avp were the ONLY good things about that movie.

I have seen Rosario in alot of films, and i'd be hesistant to call any of her performances 'great'.

[gwynplaine]

^^^^ Catman ?
I have to confess that as good this fake poster looks I wouldn't be too thrilled about a Nolan batmovie featuring Tennant, Bell etc. To me it feels like a step down from TDK but maybe that's just me.

[batboy99]

I'm not diminishing what you've done at all. It's brilliant, and I like it a lot,





But whilst we're on the subject of Marion Cotillard manips; I really like the one below. The leather mask looks great, and the suit is how I would interpret Catwoman's costume.

The problem with this is that you can't see much of Cotillard's beauty.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/catwoman2.jpg
That was done by jmc, he's a genius, so i cant even try to be as good as him. My only problem is the same problem you have. Thats why i added cat like eye makeup and lipstick. Either way, im happy with mine.

[Golgo-13]

I never liked that connection either.


He's a question though;

Should Catwoman appear in the Nolan franchise fully formed or should we see her become Catwoman (like, how she started out, wear she got her gear from, her background etc).

I like that in Nolan's films some instrumental characters dont require an explanation; Gordon, The Joker, Alfred, Lucius Fox - they just are. Should Catwoman's first appearance in the film be as the fully-costumed thief - or should we see her start out, and gradually become the Catwoman we know and love?

I think she should progress into CW. It would be a different angle than the characters you've named. Plus it would be a good way to illustrate how similiar she is to Batman.

[jmc]

I'm not diminishing what you've done at all. It's brilliant, and I like it a lot,





But whilst we're on the subject of Marion Cotillard manips; I really like the one below. The leather mask looks great, and the suit is how I would interpret Catwoman's costume.

The problem with this is that you can't see much of Cotillard's beauty.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/catwoman2.jpg

That's because I hid her face more that one normally would with Catwoman.

[batboy99]

JMC- is that grainy-ness of the pic a filter? I like it, it looks like it evens out the picture more

[jmc]

Yeah, it's a Grain effect in Photoshop. The original TDK Joker poster had the same thing. Only thing is people have commented that it makes her look like she's got stubble, not much I can do about that.

[batboy99]

Nout sure if you can, but could you maybe send me a layer of that filter please? its a weird request i know, but i got GIMP and its got **** all really.

[jmc]

I'll send you one later.

[flickchick85]

Very nice manip, batboy!

Well, I don't think Cotillard's (or whoever they cast) beauty really needs to "shine through" when she's Catwoman. That is, I think the voice, walk, and attitude should be plenty to bring the sex appeal. This is just my way of saying I think she should have goggles, lol. Selina can be the "beautiful" part of the persona. But this is a straight girl talking, so can understand if you guys feel differently. ;-)

[flickchick85]

Double post.

[batboy99]

Her beauty still needs to show psysically and facially imo. She cant be covered up with black eye make up like batman. I just couldnt see it working. She jsut would not be sexy to me.

jmc-thanks bud :)

[[A]]

^^^^ Catman ?
I have to confess that as good this fake poster looks I wouldn't be too thrilled about a Nolan batmovie featuring Tennant, Bell etc. To me it feels like a step down from TDK but maybe that's just me.

:up: QFT

[flickchick85]

Her beauty still needs to show psysically and facially imo. She cant be covered up with black eye make up like batman. I just couldnt see it working. She jsut would not be sexy to me.

Black eye make-up, I agree. That's just unnecessary and impractical. But I'm still pro-goggles.:oldrazz:

[RachelDawes]

I never liked that connection either.


He's a question though;

Should Catwoman appear in the Nolan franchise fully formed or should we see her become Catwoman (like, how she started out, wear she got her gear from, her background etc).

I like that in Nolan's films some instrumental characters dont require an explanation; Gordon, The Joker, Alfred, Lucius Fox - they just are. Should Catwoman's first appearance in the film be as the fully-costumed thief - or should we see her start out, and gradually become the Catwoman we know and love?

Definitely don't show her origin. Not showing the villain's origin is how Nolan keeps the focus of the series on Batman, even when the villain gets considerable screentime.

The most that we should know about Catwoman's past should come from vague descriptions. For example, Gordon could say "We think this 'Catwoman' who just robbed the museum has been operating for a year stealing from Gotham's upper class." Think of the Joker. We didn't see him until he hit the big time and finally reached Batman's radar. All our info before that is Gordon's report and news articles from the Gotham Times.

[[A]]

^ hey look, Rachel is alive!

[Golgo-13]

Her beauty still needs to show psysically and facially imo. She cant be covered up with black eye make up like batman. I just couldnt see it working. She jsut would not be sexy to me.

jmc-thanks bud :)

Beauty can be displayed through her costume via her body movement;her demeanor and pose. A good actress can make such things shine through almost any 'cover' ala Weaving in V For Vendetta. Beauty is not only physical. And she won't be costumed CW for the entire movie. Her Selina scenes will surely display enough of her beauty for it to resonate throughout the movie.

[Crook]

I don't think demeanor and pose are enough. She has to look sexy as well. I mean, Roseanne Barr can strut and flirt all she wants, but there's no way she's gonna come off as sexy.

Besides, a girl in a tight black costume? If she didn't come off as sexy it'd be a waste of concept. :o

[batboy99]

Beauty can be displayed through her costume via her body movement;her demeanor and pose. A good actress can make such things shine through almost any 'cover' ala Weaving in V For Vendetta. Beauty is not only physical. And she won't be costumed CW for the entire movie. Her Selina scenes will surely display enough of her beauty for it to resonate throughout the movie.
I disagree. She still has to look sexy physically, otherwise, she just wont be.

[bunk]

Marion Cotillard as Catwoman
My last manip for a while
http://fc57.deviantart.com/fs38/i/2008/316/2/5/J__mappelle_Catwoman_by_batboy99.jpg

Nice job dude. The mask looks pretty good, it just a little too angry looking. I also prefer being able to see the eyebrows.

[Golgo-13]

I disagree. She still has to look sexy physically, otherwise, she just wont be.

Well that depends on the costume design. If it's fitted to be tight on her body, and her body language conveys sexiness, i don't think the amount of Marion's face that's revealed through the mask, other than the eyes, will make that much of a difference.

[protoctista]

I think that the first time we see Catwoman, she should have already started out stealing stuff for kicks, but not be 'truly' Catwoman.

Like, she could improve her suit throughout the film, acquire some nifty gadgets like gloves with sharp claws... get herself some high-tech gear (like a Mission Impossible style bungee!!) and then start using a whip.

So that by the end she's changed from being a rookie to being the experienced, well-equipped catwoman.


I'm debating in my mind whether or not she should break into the armoury at Wayne Enterprises... or have some sort of link to that department.

[Ace of Knaves]

What about breaking into Bruce's penthouse? He's the richest guy in Gotham, it seems reasonable that a cat burglar would target him. Maybe stealing some jewelery that belonged to Martha Wayne, giving Bruce extra motivation to track Catwoman down as Batman. It could lead to a very interesting first encounter.

[protoctista]

Yes, but my problem with both that idea and Wayne Enterprises is that it's a bit contrived. It'd pile more weight unto the dramamtic irony, which is a difficult lady to play with at the best of times. This franchise has been great at keeping the dramatic irony fresh, so it's an important factor to consider.



I suppose it'd be more reasonable for her to show up at the penthouse/manor (at the house warming (gettit!) party) than Wayne Enterprises.

She could steal a whole load of stuff from Bruce Wayne, and he publically hires a private investigator as well as secretly tracks her down as Batman.

I dunno, I'm just rambling ideas.

[Dark Knight]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/indirav1/SanaaLathan-SGS-004951.jpg

I still say Sanaa trumps Rosario Dawson in every department.


Oh yeah!

[Dark Knight]

Meh....I would still take Jolie as Selina any day of the week ahead of Cotillard.

Whenever I see Angelina, I see Selina/Catwoman....always have...always will.

[Dark Knight]

Have any of you already suggested Rihanna as Catwoman? I'll bet someone has....LOL

[Two-Face]

Have any of you already suggested Rihanna as Catwoman? I'll bet someone has....LOL


Few pages back I think... :dry:

Meh....I would still take Jolie as Selina any day of the week ahead of Cotillard.

Whenever I see Angelina, I see Selina/Catwoman....always have...always will.


Amen :up:

[batboy99]

Nice job dude. The mask looks pretty good, it just a little too angry looking. I also prefer being able to see the eyebrows.
thanks, as for showing the eyebrows. I tried that, but two things.

1) Its a pretty big gap, so she would have huge eye holes
2) It shows too much of her identity, like Pfieffers catwoman

[batboy99]

I think that the first time we see Catwoman, she should have already started out stealing stuff for kicks, but not be 'truly' Catwoman.

Like, she could improve her suit throughout the film, acquire some nifty gadgets like gloves with sharp claws... get herself some high-tech gear (like a Mission Impossible style bungee!!) and then start using a whip.

So that by the end she's changed from being a rookie to being the experienced, well-equipped catwoman.


I'm debating in my mind whether or not she should break into the armoury at Wayne Enterprises... or have some sort of link to that department.
Thats what i was thinking. She should definetly start off in a rather un-catwoman like costume. Kinda like how Berry started in Crapwoman. Leather pants and jacket with a domino mask. She realises that she needs something more stealthy and something to cover her identity more.

[Borat]

Thats what i was thinking. She should definetly start off in a rather un-catwoman like costume. Kinda like how Berry started in Crapwoman. Leather pants and jacket with a domino mask. She realises that she needs something more stealthy and something to cover her identity more. Yes, this is very stealthy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Savagebeast/Cat.jpg lolol

[batboy99]

^ I wasnt talking about that one. I was talking about the simple leather jacket and pants and domino mask. And that was my whole point, it isnt stealthy, so thats why she takes up a better siut

[Golgo-13]

Yes, this is very stealthy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Savagebeast/Cat.jpg lolol

Ah, CINO. I remember Halle saying how FREQUENTLY her boobs would flop out of that bra whenever she had to do any action scenes. :up: :heart:

[batboy99]

Why didnt they showthat in the movie?

[Melkay]

I don't think there's enough time in a movie to see a development in Catwoman's career and stil pay attention to the big things, like Batman and his new status and a new threat for the city. Le'ts have her be a fully formed Catwoman and , as the movie progresses, Batman will slowly discover her M.O., motives and plans.

[batboy99]

Off topic and I am NOT suggesting her for the role, but does anyone else think than Halle Berry could have been a good or alright Catwoman with a different script and director?

[regwec]

Not really. There is something boyish about Berry's features and manner. It's attractive in its own way, but it doesn't sit easily with the dangerously sexual femininity of Selina.

[hatebox]

^ (to Batboy) A great director can get a good performance out of just about anybody, but it's been too long since berry's even been close to competent. It's like she gave up after her Oscar win.

[cerealkiller182]

Off topic and I am NOT suggesting her for the role, but does anyone else think than Halle Berry could have been a good or alright Catwoman with a different script and director?

Maybe

post-Halle Oscar has been a real let down though

[batboy99]

Maybe

post-Halle Oscar has been a real let down though

^ (to Batboy) A great director can get a good performance out of just about anybody, but it's been too long since berry's even been close to competent. It's like she gave up after her Oscar win.
Agreed, which is sad, when she wants to be, shes a great actress and holds her own in a movie, but not lately.

[protoctista]

It happens to lots of actors and actresses once they've won their Oscar. But who can blame them? An Oscar for an actor is practically a liscence to be obcenely rich for very little work.

[Laderlappen]

I dont believe in that. I think it has happened to alot of actors that hasnt won(or in a time far after they won) and a coincidence it has happened to some oscar winners. But I believe some actors, and Halle might be one of them, dont go 100% in their roles after they have gotten their big brake. After Monster's Ball, Halle can be alot more picky and dont have to be afraid not getting job.

[cerealkiller182]

I think theres a lot more actors who get lucky with a role and continue to their regular consistency. Berry was getting better and better before she got her oscar thought

[Golgo-13]

Off topic and I am NOT suggesting her for the role, but does anyone else think than Halle Berry could have been a good or alright Catwoman with a different script and director?

Perhaps. I think Halle's at her sexiest when she not trying to be sexy, like in 'Boomerang' and in 'Catwoman'- before she became Catwoman as was the office geek.

[Cancer4TheCure]

Perhaps. I think Halle's at her sexiest when she not trying to be sexy, like in 'Boomerang' and in 'Catwoman'- before she became Catwoman as was the office geek.

This is true. She is FINE when she's goin' for the whole "cute dork" angle.

[batboy99]

Perhaps. I think Halle's at her sexiest when she not trying to be sexy, like in 'Boomerang' and in 'Catwoman'- before she became Catwoman as was the office geek.
I thought she was super sexy when she was knid of catwoman. When she cut her hair and was in that leath jacket and pants.

[Borat]

^ I wasnt talking about that one. I was talking about the simple leather jacket and pants and domino mask. And that was my whole point, it isnt stealthy, so thats why she takes up a better siutI gotcha. :cwink:

[batboy99]

Good. Probably a bad idea to suggest something from CINO, but you get my drift.(Its not like it was a ****ty,ugly outfit though, anyone can wear it.)

[DrMylesOBoogie]

Lizzy Caplin does have a good look.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2464/lizzy20caplanee5.jpg

[Hellion]

Meh....I would still take Jolie as Selina any day of the week ahead of Cotillard.

Whenever I see Angelina, I see Selina/Catwoman....always have...always will.

I don't think anybody can top Catwoman from Batman Returns...imo...i would love to see the character again but catwoman was already perfectly done

and to me I think Angelina would work better as Talia Al Ghul but thats just me though...

[RachelDawes]

I don't think anybody can top Catwoman from Batman Returns...imo...i would love to see the character again but catwoman was already perfectly done

I agree that Michelle Pfeiffer was excellent in Returns. The only way around unflattering comparisons to her Catwoman would be for Nolan to present a totally different Catwoman, one who is tough, self-confident, and absolutely revels in her criminality instead of a wallflower who was practically forced into villainy.

[Crook]

Pfeiffer's Catwoman didn't revel in her villainy?

[jmc]

I don't think anybody can top Catwoman from Batman Returns...imo...i would love to see the character again but catwoman was already perfectly done

I believe the same was said of the Joker.

[bunk]

Pfeiffer's Catwoman was great, but there is a lot more that can be done with the character. For starters, I'd like a Selina who isn't mentally unstable or insane.

[kid dropper]

and wasnt revived by cats nibbling her fingers and doesnt actually have 9 lives.

[Abadleon]

and wasnt revived by cats nibbling her fingers and doesnt actually have 9 lives.
Somebody else said the same in some other thread and I think we may have watched different movies...
I don't think that Catwoman was resurrected by cats on B.Returns, she just survived. The cats around her were just something symbolic. The same about the nine lives, it was something symbolic, she just resisted the shots, it was not something magical.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea Max Shreck didn't exactly go for the killing shot did he? He was shooting her in the stomach and legs and that, you'd think he'd just shoot her in the face.

[The Major]

I don't think anybody can top Catwoman from Batman Returns...imo...i would love to see the character again but catwoman was already perfectly done

I disagree.

It would be difficult but not impossible to top Pfeiffer's Catwoman.

A toned down, more realistic Catwoman in the Will Pfiefer/Brubaker/Batman:TAS mold could redefine the character again. The character isn't just restricted to camp like BR showed.

No-one thought anybody could do a better Joker then Nicolson but it happened. The same can occur with Catwoman.

and to me I think Angelina would work better as Talia Al Ghul but thats just me though...

Agreed.

[The Major]

Yea Max Shreck didn't exactly go for the killing shot did he? He was shooting her in the stomach and legs and that, you'd think he'd just shoot her in the face.

Unless Selina went to the hospital for surgery, and it would still be a huge odds for her survival, immediately after those shots she'd have died any way.

[The Major]

Off topic and I am NOT suggesting her for the role, but does anyone else think than Halle Berry could have been a good or alright Catwoman with a different script and director?

Yes.

She'd have made a good Selina Kyle.

[Mercurius]

No-one thought anybody could do a better Joker then Nicolson but it happened. The same can occur with Catwoman.

One here. Never, never liked Nicholson fat clown with deranged uncle's one-liners.

Always thought it could be easily topped, and I wasn't the only one.

But Pfeiffer, it will be difficult. Nolan can do it, I suppose, if he will ever deal with the character.

And I suppose he has some chances if he gets Cotillard. :woot:

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea Pfeiffer was awesome in Returns. I think it will be really hard for anyone to top it, not impossible though. Catwoman is probs the hardest casting choice after Batman and Joker IMO.

I think the most difficult thing for whoever gets the gig is to get an electrofying chemistry with Bale. So far neither Katie or Maggie have had a good spark with Bale IMO. Might be Bale's fault or theirs so it will have to be a perfect choice to play her.

[bethehero7404]

What about Catherine Zeta-Jones? I know she is maybe a little older than Christian Bale but she has the look. Just watch the movie Entrapment. You'll understand.

[RachelDawes]

Pfeiffer's Catwoman didn't revel in her villainy?

Well, maybe "revel in her villainy" isn't the correct term, but Pfeiffer's Selina didn't exactly choose to become Catwoman; she was pushed out a window and went nuts. Even though she has fun dressing up as a cat she's also obviously conflicted about what she's doing. I remember some lines where she says things like "I'm tired of wearing a mask" and "I'd love to live in your castle, Bruce, but I don't think I can live with myself."

Nolan should present a Selina who actually likes herself and doesn't feel too terribly conflicted about the double life she leads. She should be sexy, fun, and unconcerned about the consequences of her actions. Basically, the opposite of Batman.

One other thought occurs to me: it would be cool if Selina offers to give up being Catwoman to be with him as long as he gives up being Batman, but Bruce can't do it. It would show how being Batman is the thing that sustains Bruce but is also what isolates him.

[Melkay]

... Catwoman is probs the hardest casting choice after Batman and Joker IMO.

I think the most difficult thing for whoever gets the gig is to get an electrofying chemistry with Bale. So far neither Katie or Maggie have had a good spark with Bale IMO. Might be Bale's fault or theirs so it will have to be a perfect choice to play her.

Marion is a Libra, Bale's an Aquarius :woot:... both are Europeans, both come from artistic families, both were child actors, both started in small films and both have performed chamaleonic roles with termendous physical transformation. Hell, they're both activists for Greenpeace and animal life rights.
Bottom line... I don't know about chemistry, but they would surely get along. :cwink:

[Melkay]

One other thought occurs to me: it would be cool if Selina offers to give up being Catwoman to be with him as long as he gives up being Batman, but Bruce can't do it. It would show how being Batman is the thing that sustains Bruce but is also what isolates him.

I don't think Catwoman would do that. Bats is the one troubled by his double life, but I think she would enjoy hers so much that the mere thought of sacrificing her freedom to be with a man would be too much for her. No, she enojoys the teasing and the unfulfilled promise much more than him. If one should consider to abandon his double life for the other, that would be Batman.

But I find this contradictory, because you also said this...
Nolan should present a Selina who actually likes herself and doesn't feel too terribly conflicted about the double life she leads. She should be sexy, fun, and unconcerned about the consequences of her actions. Basically, the opposite of Batman.

^ That's EXACTLY how it should be.

[regwec]

Yes, I would agree on the latter point.

[Mercurius]

Marion is a Libra, Bale's an Aquarius :woot:... both are Europeans, both come from artistic families, both were child actors, both started in small films and both have performed chamaleonic roles with termendous physical transformation. Hell, they're both activists for Greenpeace and animal life rights.
Bottom line... I don't know about chemistry, but they would surely get along. :cwink:

Hahahahahaha. Great. One of the best posts I've read.

Kudos for ya, Melkay!

[Two-Face]

Off topic and I am NOT suggesting her for the role, but does anyone else think than Halle Berry could have been a good or alright Catwoman with a different script and director?

She might been but I wouldn't want Berry as Selina cos I don't like her acting.

[TTRuth021]

I'm sure there is a picture on here somewhere, but can someone post a pic of what catwoman could look like in a nolan film? because I still dont see how she could work in a nolan batman film. I don't see how a woman dressed like a cat could work realistically, and be taken seriously.

[kid dropper]

must another fan be reminded that all of this is built around a man dressed as a bat? ive actually seen women dressed as cats in far more real life (yes, non-halloween) situations.
bat-man
cat-woman
that's such a natural progression, how can anyone argue??? its perfect . just have it like year one, where she is half-inspired by the presence of the batman, and since bats is considered rogue now it could add to the confusion, people will think theyre in cahoots

[Laderlappen]

I'm sure there is a picture on here somewhere, but can someone post a pic of what catwoman could look like in a nolan film? because I still dont see how she could work in a nolan batman film. I don't see how a woman dressed like a cat could work realistically, and be taken seriously.Unlike a man dressing up as a bat? And how is it not realistic?

[jmc]

I'm sure there is a picture on here somewhere, but can someone post a pic of what catwoman could look like in a nolan film? because I still dont see how she could work in a nolan batman film. I don't see how a woman dressed like a cat could work realistically, and be taken seriously.

Simple, she's a burglar, she where's a tight outfit to remain hidden from being detected, she wears a Cat mask as good luck omen.

[Two-Face]

A man dresses up like a bat - realistic

A woman dresses up like a cat - not realistic ???


If you look at it in both ways none these are realistic, let's look at some top villains.

Joker: a man wears red lips, green hair and white make up - realistic??

Two-Face: half face burned by a acid in real life he would die quickly...

[regwec]

Unlike a man dressing up as a bat? And how is it not realistic?
It's better just to ignore comments like his.

[InvisibleWoman]

OMG this woman NEEDS to be Catwoman...

http://www.evagreenweb.com/gallery/albums/albums/montblanc/printed-ads/montblanc_011.jpg

[batboy99]

Eva could work, but I'd much rather have her as Talia.

This woman is really growing on me
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/batboy99/olga2-1.jpg

[Two-Face]

Olga is good but no way Catwoman material.

[batboy99]

I think she could work, shes definetly an up in comnig actress so she'll definetly get alot of work before the 3rd movies comes out.

[regwec]

Olga is really lovely. I would have associated her more with Talia, though.

[Crook]

Olga has shown to be capable, but I don't think she's so good as to hide her accent.

[regwec]

I don't no why, but it seems that Amercicans in particular always think it is really challenging to change one accent for another. It isn't. The American accent is particularly easy to mimick, anyway.

[Crook]

American is one of the easiest accents, but it doesn't change the fact that there are still many actors that can't pull a convincing one off. It's especially more notable for those that have a very thick native accent.

[regwec]

What exactly do you mean by "thick" or "native"? I'm not being confrontational, I just don't understand some of the attitudes to the subject here. Does Queen Elizabeth II have a "thick native accent" in your view? How do you define thick- as 'more different from American'? If so, what is it that makes the mixed colonial accents of northern America the standard against which others are measured?

[Crook]

If the accent desired is American, would it not be logically be the standard to which other accents are measured? This is really just going by from what I've seen, but people from Western Europe tend to have an easier time mimicking our accent as opposed to Eastern Europeans and Latin Americans.

[Van Petrol]

Olga is really lovely. I would have associated her more with Talia, though.

Olga and Eva are the two on my wishlist for Talia. :up:

[regwec]

If the accent desired is American, would it not be logically be the standard to which other accents are measured? This is really just going by from what I've seen, but people from Western Europe tend to have an easier time mimicking our accent as opposed to Eastern Europeans and Latin Americans.

Yes, but I was asking more specifically the criterea by which you denote "thickness" in a "native" accent. For instance- does George Bush or Keira Knightley have a "thicker" accent? Or, in what sense is a Polish accent "thicker" than a French accent?

[Crook]

I should have clarified in my original post. "Thicker" in comparison to how American it sounds. It's usually a term we use here to point out a "non-native".

[Hunter Rider]

http://i37.tinypic.com/es6on7.jpg

[Two-Face]

http://i37.tinypic.com/es6on7.jpg




Oh please...:o

[Hunter Rider]

Oh please...:o

What ? :huh:

[Two-Face]

She ain't no Catwoman.

[Hunter Rider]

She ain't no Catwoman.

Why b/c you want someone else ?

[hatebox]

Who is that...?

[Hunter Rider]

Who is that...?

Marion Collitard.

[Two-Face]

Why b/c you want someone else ?

Yes. I want....


Lucy Pinder.

[Lobo]

Michelle Monaghan ftw :o

[Hunter Rider]

Yes. I want....


Lucy Pinder.

:funny:

[Mercurius]

http://i37.tinypic.com/es6on7.jpg


Impersonating those frightening execs in Mulholland Drive:

"This is the girl". :woot:

[Two-Face]

:funny:

You wanted Vanessa something as Catwoman.:ikyn

[TTRuth021]

Simple, she's a burglar, she where's a tight outfit to remain hidden from being detected, she wears a Cat mask as good luck omen.

Well as a character Im not questioning her realism, not so much as her look. I dont see how her appearance could work in a nolan batman film.

Obviously none of this is realistic, but most of the characters used in BB and TDK seem to at least have a realistic look to them.

Batman- yea a bat, but considering the reason behind it (intimidation) and armor it works. Its not like he just wears plastic bat ears.

Joker- The guy just wears make up, not out of the realm of realism.

Two-Face- pretty realistic looking, even if not possible.

Scarecrow- just wears a sack over his head

Catwoman- how could a woman wearing cat ears, and big goggles be taken seriously? I dont see how her outfit would fit in a realistic world. Its not for intimidation, theatricality maybe, but it still looks silly...to me anyway.

[TNC9852002]

If a man wearing bat ears with a cape and bright sonar goggles can be taken seriously, then so should Catwoman! What may sound bad in words or on paper, might look a lot better when shot on-screen by professionals.

These guys are paid a lot of money to make goofy, weird things look good and sophisticated on-screen.

-TNC

[[A]]

yeah, the realistic costume argument shouldn't last more than two posts :whatever:

[Laderlappen]

Well as a character Im not questioning her realism, not so much as her look. I dont see how her appearance could work in a nolan batman film.

Obviously none of this is realistic, but most of the characters used in BB and TDK seem to at least have a realistic look to them.

Batman- yea a bat, but considering the reason behind it (intimidation) and armor it works. Its not like he just wears plastic bat ears.

Joker- The guy just wears make up, not out of the realm of realism.

Two-Face- pretty realistic looking, even if not possible.

Scarecrow- just wears a sack over his head

Catwoman- how could a woman wearing cat ears, and big goggles be taken seriously? I dont see how her outfit would fit in a realistic world. Its not for intimidation, theatricality maybe, but it still looks silly...to me anyway.Could not be taking seriously? Compared to a guy dressing up as a bat, a guy dressing up as a clown, or a dude putting a sack over his head dressing up as a SCARECROW?
And you keep talking about realism. I want you to mention one single thing about Catwoman that now is so unrealistic. Because there i NOTHING unrealistic about Catwoman.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea what is this guy on about! :D Anyway it's a fricking BATMAN movie, people shouldn't get so hung up over this realism crap. It's a FANTASY film, it's just set it a realistic world with a grounded tone.

[Hunter Rider]

You wanted Vanessa something as Catwoman.:ikyn

Vanessa Lane ? I lost a bet to Norm, hence that sig.

[TTRuth021]

Yea what is this guy on about! :D Anyway it's a fricking BATMAN movie, people shouldn't get so hung up over this realism crap. It's a FANTASY film, it's just set it a realistic world with a grounded tone.

Ohh well I guess Im alone on this.....:csad: But maybe realistic isn't the right word....I just think her outfit looks too silly to be in a nolan batman movie, no matter how "realistic" they try to make it. But Im sure if anyone could do it, they could.

[Ace of Knaves]

Ohh well I guess Im alone on this.....:csad: But maybe realistic isn't the right word....I just think her outfit looks too silly to be in a nolan batman movie, no matter how "realistic" they try to make it. But Im sure if anyone could do it, they could.

Man I wasn't meaning to diss ya, but I think Catwoman would be the most "realistic" villain so far apart from Ra's. It's basically a cat burglar outfit and the goggles could be like advanced night vision binocular things so she can scope out her targets or something. That would be pretty good I think because cats have got perfect vision so it could be a neat little cat gimmick for her. As for the ears? Well maybe they could just be her hair in two bunches?

[Crook]

Man I wasn't meaning to diss ya, but I think Catwoman would be the most "realistic" villain so far apart from Ra's. It's basically a cat burglar outfit and the goggles could be like advanced night vision binocular things so she can scope out her targets or something. That would be pretty good I think because cats have got perfect vision so it could be a neat little cat gimmick for her. As for the ears? Well maybe they could just be her hair in two bunches?

No. That's stupid. Little cat ears are hardly a big deal, especially when she's called CATwoman, and it's her motif. Keep the ears, keep the whip, keep the tight black suit. It's her iconography for god's sake.

[protoctista]

There's no reason to dispose of them. They are absolutely the persona she created for herself, she is the Catwoman. Those are her symols and her motifs. Why get rid of them?

They're not even silly. Especially when she's going up against a man dressed up as a bat.

[regwec]

No. That's stupid.

Correct. The Nolan bros certainly make good Batman movies, but they seem to make sections of the fanbase lose their senses. I cannot believe that anybody, having seen "The Dark knight", could believe that two angular protrusions from a mask would be too unrealistic or "grounded" to fit in. Absurd.

[Van Petrol]

I agree. People are really going overboard with the need to have a realistic explanation for almost everything in the Nolanverse.

[Ace of Knaves]

You guys seem to think i'm on the "catwoman isn't realistic enough side". Yea the thing i said about her hair in bunches was stupid, but i just threw the suggestion out there for the people who think cat ears would be stupid. I never said I think cat ears would be unrealistic.

[TTRuth021]

I agree. People are really going overboard with the need to have a realistic explanation for almost everything in the Nolanverse.

I dont think it's going overboard...when there is a realistic explanation for almost everything in the Nolanverse. I think that has been the point of the franchise.

Except for Joker...but there isn't too much to explain about him wearing make up.

And I like some of the ideas being thrown around.

[Crook]

I don't get what's so hard to understand. She adopts a cat motif. Tie it into the films by saying Selina was inspired by Batman, just like the copycats. Plus it's a pun on her occupation, a cat burglar.

Surely this isn't too difficult to piece together.

[kid dropper]

pretty damn easy to grasp from my point of view. it makes so much perfect sense it ridiculous. before i was more indifferent towards cat woman being in the next film, but now i feel its an absolute must. Her whole motif and function fit perfectly, and also bruce needs a new girl, and having the shady crook seduce him will stand in stark contrast to the straight arrow stick in the mud A.D.A he was previously intwined with. The now "outlaw" batman falls for a real outlaw, further confusing and complicating things. I would like though if they were just strong feelings, like they never quite seal the deal, at least definitely not in costume, bruce and selina can do their thing, but no masked makeouts, please.

[Keyser Soze]

No. That's stupid. Little cat ears are hardly a big deal, especially when she's called CATwoman, and it's her motif. Keep the ears, keep the whip, keep the tight black suit. It's her iconography for god's sake.

And also, the cat ears have a practical use. Hasn't Selina had a radio installed in those ears at some points in the comics, to pick up police bandwidth?

[Keyser Soze]

pretty damn easy to grasp from my point of view. it makes so much perfect sense it ridiculous. before i was more indifferent towards cat woman being in the next film, but now i feel its an absolute must. Her whole motif and function fit perfectly, and also bruce needs a new girl, and having the shady crook seduce him will stand in stark contrast to the straight arrow stick in the mud A.D.A he was previously intwined with. The now "outlaw" batman falls for a real outlaw, further confusing and complicating things. I would like though if they were just strong feelings, like they never quite seal the deal, at least definitely not in costume, bruce and selina can do their thing, but no masked makeouts, please.

Good points. And also, if there's one thing that could give the third Batman film any kind of chance of topping The Dark Knight's box office, it would be a compelling, iconic love story to draw in a wider female demographic.

[protoctista]

Except for Joker...but there isn't too much to explain about him wearing make up.

"I heard he wears make-up... you know, like War-paint".

That and Heath's mannerisms made it perfectly obvious that the make-up was designed to terrify and confuse.

The way in which the goon said the word 'make-up' at the beginning, and the initial response of the assembled mob show that the make-up initially made people regard him with disdain, even mockery. In that sense, the make-up was a plot tool - showing how people's perceptions changed once the bombs started exploding. Showing escalation. Once ridiculed, now feared.


The make-up was also a mockery of established society (this and his bedraggled appearance). Especially in the penthouse scene, when in direct juxtaposition to everyone's well presented atire and glamour.




So, yeah. The make-up did have a distinct, very cleverly applied purpose.

I would expect no less to be made of the Cat gear.

[elgato]

http://i37.tinypic.com/es6on7.jpg

THAT'S OUR CATWOMAN!!! (She could also do Batman Returns Selina really well... :indy:)

[Ronny Shade]

who is that

[kid dropper]

aint that cotillard?

[batboy99]

Marion Cotillard.

[Ronny Shade]

I've never heard of this cotillard person outside of this thread.

[Lobo]

She was either nominated or just won an Academy Award.

[Clark Kent]

She was either nominated or just won an Academy Award.

Yep.

[flickchick85]

Yeah, she was this year's Academy Award(and Golden Globe, BAFTA, etc)-winner for Best Actress. So some people have heard of her. :p

[Clark Kent]

Yeah, she was this year's Academy Award(and Golden Globe, BAFTA, etc)-winner for Best Actress. So some people have heard of her. :p

Was she suggested just cos she's in an upcoming movie with Christian Bale?

[flickchick85]

No, she was suggested b/c she'd be great for the part. And she's an amazing actress.

[Clark Kent]

No, she was suggested b/c she'd be great for the part. And she's an amazing actress.

Hope she can do an amazing American accent though.

[regwec]

Clark Kent, I wholeheartedly commend the boldness of your title in conjunction with your avatar. I always have admiration for those that wear their hearts on their sleeves.

[Clark Kent]

Clark Kent, I wholeheartedly commend the boldness of your title in conjunction with your avatar. I always have admiration for those that wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Why, thank you, regwec. Much appreciated.

[flickchick85]

Hope she can do an amazing American accent though.
So do I (I don't know how "amazing" an American accent can be though), and I guess we'll see soon enough.

[Crook]

Sadly, the first early review for Public Enemies isn't very favorable. I kinda had a feeling Mann was way past his prime after viewing Miami Vice and Ali. I'm not sure this film is gonna do anything for Depp, Bale, OR Marion.

[kid dropper]

i read the one on aintitcool and it was more towards favorable. it said it was pretty good and could even be great with certain changes. it did have its share of gripes but he overall liked the movie

[Crook]

Link?

[kid dropper]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39086

[flickchick85]

^Yeah, that's the review I've read, too, which thought the Johnny/Marion storyline was the strongest aspect of the film.

No comment on her accent, though, but I guess that's probably a good thing since it wasn't distractingly bad.

[Crook]

Thanks. Yeah that's a lot more forgiving than the review I read last week, lol. Disappointed by the lack of development between Depp and Bale's rivalry though. That could have been some real magic.

Glad to know Marion's part seems to be good. Strange no one has mentioned the accent.

[kid dropper]

yo crook link me to the one you read

[Crook]

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/reader-review-an-early-look-at-michael-mann-s-public-enemies-5721

Looking at it again, I don't even know which review to put trust in. They're both so completely dichotomous.

[flickchick85]

Looking at it again, I don't even know which review to put trust in. They're both so completely dichotomous.Too true. They kinda cancel each other out. Although that Latino Review one thinks that people are gonna want to see it "maybe because they loved Miami Vice," which suggests to me that he and I have differing tastes in Michael Mann's filmography, so I'm gonna choose (for now) to put a little more trust into the 1st one.

Still, I'm certainly not expecting Mann's greatest film ever, either. I loved Heat and The Insider, liked Last of the Mohicans and Collateral, and could take or leave Miami Vice and Ali. Going off everything I've read of Public Enemies (including the script), I'm expecting it to land somewhere in the upper-middle tier of those films - not as good as the top 2, but maybe a little better than Collateral - so I'll probably like it a quite a bit.

Veering back on topic - I'm also getting the impression that Marion's role is stronger and more developed than Bale's, so there may be a good chance that she'll stand out for unfamiliar audiences to take notice of her in this. And if these reviews are any indication, it won't be for a faulty accent.

[kid dropper]

the book is spectacular, and ill take a decent period gangster flick where i can get one. far and few between they are. dont make em like they used to.

[jmc]

I don't get what's so hard to understand. She adopts a cat motif. Tie it into the films by saying Selina was inspired by Batman, just like the copycats. Plus it's a pun on her occupation, a cat burglar.

Surely this isn't too difficult to piece together.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the idea of Batman 'inspiring' the creation of Catwoman?

[kid dropper]

consult your copy of year one. . batman is the one who made parading around in a costume fashionable. it must be addressed this way, especially since these nolan films take place in a world where there are no other costumed superheroes or villains anywhere else in the world.

[protoctista]

The fact that people here don't know who Marion Cotillard is outside of this thread makes me feel sad to know how few people are actually interested in film outside of the multiplex.

Marion Cotillard won, controversially beat out Julie Christie's much lauded performance, as well as Angelina Jolie's and Laura Linney's career highs in Mighty Heart and The Savages respectively, to win both the BAFTA and Oscar for Best Actress.

Considering that she is largely unknown, the fact that she beat out such staunch competition is testimony to her phenomenal performance in La Vie En Rose - an immersive biopic in which she is astounding as Edith Piaf.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uzEJ7NV_g98


She is the most talented actress of her age around, and she's set to become huge.

On top of that she's physically perfect for Catwoman (I refrained from adding a purr).

And she's clearly mastered the American accent if Harry Knowles hasn't even commented on it.

[protoctista]

As for Public Enemies... I'd really like to see Michael Mann move on.

Maybe do a cultural study in Taiwan

[kid dropper]

id like to supplement my previous post, clarifying that while catwoman may not be inspired by batman in the act of jewel thieving, etc., she is definitely inspired by him in the act of wearing an animal themed costume

[jmc]

consult your copy of year one. . batman is the one who made parading around in a costume fashionable. it must be addressed this way, especially since these nolan films take place in a world where there are no other costumed superheroes or villains anywhere else in the world.

Year One is a reference, not gospel. Who says the 'Catwoman' couldn't have existed before Batman? No reason she couldn't have used the cat motif for years as her own personal symbol. There's also no rule that says Batman has to be the reason for the creation of Catwoman.

[CaptainClown]

year one also says catwoman is black. Great reference like all comics, but not the end all be all of what should be done.

[kid dropper]

not to be a dick, but is this relational to some "god is a woman" type feminist ideology? lets say even if in the comics universe she existed before him, if in the nolanverse, she existed before him, a legendary criminal running around in a cat costume, calling herself catwoman, why isnt she mentioned ever? please do not cite fox's half assed joke about cats. batman, then superfreaks. this is not a chicken/egg situation. (though i guess scarecrow pretty much existed before bats in the nolanverse) i would accept the idea of her being active as a cat burglar and calling herself or being called the cat before bats hit the scene, but not the full-fledged catwoman persona complete with mask and regalia. Theatricality/escalation.

[kid dropper]

catwoman aint black in year one, shes just got short dark hair that gives her a mulatto kind of vibe, but i assure you she is white.

[jmc]

not to be a dick, but is this relational to some "god is a woman" type feminist ideology? lets say even if in the comics universe she existed before him, if in the nolanverse, she existed before him, a legendary criminal running around in a cat costume, calling herself catwoman, why isnt she mentioned ever? please do not cite fox's half assed joke about cats. batman, then superfreaks. this is not a chicken/egg situation. (though i guess scarecrow pretty much existed before bats in the nolanverse) i would accept the idea of her being active as a cat burglar and calling herself or being called the cat before bats hit the scene, but not the full-fledged catwoman persona complete with mask and regalia. Theatricality/escalation.

Maybe because she doesn't have to come from Gotham City. Who says she has to be from Gotham City in the first place? Can she not be someone who travels from city to city committing heists and has done so for years? Just because she's not been mentioned in two films so far doesn't mean she can't already exist.

[kid dropper]

id be open to that i guess.

[regwec]

year one also says catwoman is black.

No she isn't. The fact that this is so widely believed demonstrates how few have actually read even the most seminal comics.

[Two-Face]

I read BY1 and I don't think Selina is black.

[Ace of Knaves]

Why do people think shes black? When I read it not once did I think she looked black. White women can have short aswell people!!

[regwec]

I really don't understand it. Her closely cropped hair was more likely intended to hint that she had some lesbian subcultural tendencies. But lots of people claim that the Harvey Dent of BTAS was black, too; again based on no evidence.

[Ronny Shade]

cause it matter sooo much what her race is.

[Two-Face]

cause it matter sooo much what her race is.

Not for me, she could be red, yellow and pink ....

[regwec]

cause it matter sooo much what her race is.

I'm not saying that it does. I just find it interesting that large numbers of 'fans' seem to believe a myth that is easily dispelled by a glance at one of the most widely available and best known paperbacks.

[Lobo]

I read BY1 and I don't think Selina is black.

She's not, she just has a short haircut. And, not everyone is the same shade. Here's a quick scan i just found

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/foldedsoup/Blog/cw_a_bg_web.jpg

[regwec]

To be fair, that isn't from "Year One".

[Ronny Shade]

what is that "Catwoman: Year One?"

[Lobo]

Well I just googled for that and it's the pic i got so :o

[protoctista]

I just checked and it's not in my copy of Year One.

There is a line from Selina's friend saying, "I dunno Selina, you've spent all your money on that costume" - so they can't really go together.

So unless I've been duped...




It's the same artistic portrayal of Selina Kyle that is in Year One though, so its still valid in concluding the somewhat ridiculous 'Catwoman is black in year one' argument.

To act as devil's advocate on behalf of that argument... In a lot of her panels she is in a dark street/dark room, so she is given a 'greyed' tint to reflect that. It is, however, apparant that she is not black. Her face certainly looks a bit... well, I don't know what nationality, but certainly not entirely caucasian.

[Ronny Shade]

That's definitely not Mazuccheli

[PrincessBoss]

I'm not saying that it does. I just find it interesting that large numbers of 'fans' seem to believe a myth that is easily dispelled by a glance at one of the most widely available and best known paperbacks.

I think you need to have another "glance" over Year One yourself. I would suggest page 83 first - this is the clearest indication of her skin colour as it's a scene set in a brightly-lit room - and then maybe you could refer to the script that comes with the Deluxe Edition and see that Selina was described by Miller as "young, dark, exotic and sleazy."

I agree that Catwoman's ethnicity should be of no importance, but the fact is that Miller and Mazzuchelli made her of vague colour that, whatever it was, wasn't white. Mixed-race maybe, black possibly, but certainly not caucasian. DC abondoned this idea post-Year One and never returned to it, probably to avoid continuity problems with the character.

The above image looks to me like it's from the post-Year One Catwoman 4-issue mini-series.

[Ace of Knaves]

I wouldn't say she was black, but she isn't standard Caucasian. Maybe Mediterranean?

[Ronny Shade]

Sicilian, right?

According to Jeph Loeb, I mean

[regwec]

I think you need to have another "glance" over Year One yourself. I would suggest page 83 first - this is the clearest indication of her skin colour as it's a scene set in a brightly-lit room - and then maybe you could refer to the script that comes with the Deluxe Edition and see that Selina was described by Miller as "young, dark, exotic and sleazy."

I agree that Catwoman's ethnicity should be of no importance, but the fact is that Miller and Mazzuchelli made her of vague colour that, whatever it was, wasn't white. Mixed-race maybe, black possibly, but certainly not caucasian. DC abondoned this idea post-Year One and never returned to it, probably to avoid continuity problems with the character.

She certainly is caucasian. Is George Clooney black? Is Catherine Zeta Jones black? No? But they're "dark", aren't they? Because we all know that a "dark" complexion means that someone is "possibly" black or mixed race, don't we? That's why only black people can be described as "tall, dark and handsome", surely?

And it absolutely would be rational for the creators of a prequel to well-established characters later storylines to decide to reverse or alter details like their enthnicity, wouldn't it? I don't really care what race Selina is, but I wouldn't have thought she had the ability to change it at will.

Maybe- just maybe- she has short hair and a suntan? Perhaps she has Italian blood, as referenced in the majority of her Jeph Loeb-written outings?

Or do some Italians' darker complexions classify them as black?