The New Catwoman Casting Thread

[Cunning Stunts]

What if she gets caught by a mobster? Take that one in The Dark Knight for example... He didn't hesitate to open fire on everyone. I mean seriously, dude, she's in a dangerous trade, it would be absolutely dumb not to show up prepared. To rob people and think, "I'll never run into gunfire," is just ludicrous.

[KalMart]

I know how you feel. I want Catwoman in the next movie but I worry that she's an easy villain to get wrong. The actress playing her could be terrible, her dialog could be ridiculous, she could have no chemistry with Bale, she could be only awkwardly inserted into the story...There are a lot of reasons for me to be nervous about her being the next villain.
They could get her character 'right', but it's still a case for me of there being better choices for this Batman world, and more specifically, where things stand in this storyline. If we were talking about something that was perhaps more independently episodic, like a show or something, sure Catwoman would be interesting along the way. And it's not that she's not a strong character either. It's just that the way things are set up, Batman still has to face something bigger than just him, or his personal needs/feelings. The League of Shadows....Joker...they weren't just them, they represented a larger movement and sociological element. I don't know a whole lot about Catwoman, but as far as I can tell, that's not her and out of respect they shouldn't try to make it her either.

If that's the kind of direction they want to keep going in, and she doesn't really fit that without reinterpreting her away from what the 'true' charm/appeal of her is.....then better not to compromise either by including her. And if you are going to include her, she should be a major character, not a side-villain or what have you....or a convenient way of covering the love-interest category. So again...if her being her isn't the ideal choice for a main villain in this specific approach, or even a much-involved one without severe changing...better not use her at all. But we can still play 'what if'. :O

just took the cat ears as being a piece of flair. She likes cats and thought it would be cute and fun to have cat ears. *shrugs* Probably she was inspired by Batman.
Well....flair doesn't mean (or serve) much if you don't want anyone to see it. Basically, if someone is dismissing armor because it doesn't address or 'suit' her M.O., then neither do the ears when it really comes down to it. :O

[KalMart]

Alright, she gets caught, then what? Guards are just going to shoot her? She has no firearm, if she gets caught she get arrested, simple as that. She is not a combat soldier, she's not going out looking for a confrontation with heavy gun fire, it makes no sense that she'd be suited up in protective gear when her only goal is to get in and out of where ever she's going and quickly and as quietly as possible. Things screw up sure, but you're still not expecting to be involved in a shootout, it makes even less sense since she has no weapon to counter any gun fire attack with.
What if she gets caught by a mobster? Take that one in The Dark Knight for example... He didn't hesitate to open fire on everyone. I mean seriously, dude, she's in a dangerous trade, it would be absolutely dumb not to show up prepared. To rob people and think, "I'll never run into gunfire," is just ludicrous.


Hmmmmm.........


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1855/gijoemoviescarlettshana.jpg

[jmc]

What if she gets caught by a mobster? Take that one in The Dark Knight for example... He didn't hesitate to open fire on everyone. I mean seriously, dude, she's in a dangerous trade, it would be absolutely dumb not to show up prepared. To rob people and think, ''I'll never run into gunfire,'' is just ludicrous.

Then she'd need to be armed with a firearm then, you can't have her prepared for a shootout and not have any sort of weapon to counter it. But firearms and gun are not Catwoman.

Hmmmmm.........


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1855/gijoemoviescarlettshana.jpg

Exactly what it shouldn't be.

[elgato]

Hmmmmm.........


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1855/gijoemoviescarlettshana.jpg

nope, Catwoman must be sleek and flexible at the time of the robbery

[Hobodeluxe]

If I were Nolan I'd go for a look like Beckinsale in Underworld. Tight leather bodysuit. With a few hi-tech toys.

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/underworld/kate_beckinsale/underworld3.jpg

[KalMart]

Exactly what it shouldn't be.
Heh. :oldrazz:

[flickchick85]

If I were Nolan I'd go for a look like Beckinsale in Underworld. Tight leather bodysuit. With a few hi-tech toys.

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/underworld/kate_beckinsale/underworld3.jpg
See, if I were Nolan, I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a "costume" at all (and that really does, imo), but rather something that a real professional cat burglar would wear - aka, something practical. Like in elgato's manips.

[KalMart]

See, if I were Nolan, I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a "costume" at all (and that really does, imo), but rather something that a real professional cat burglar would wear - aka, something practical.

Like Cat-ears? :woot:

[Cunning Stunts]

Then she'd need to be armed with a firearm then, you can't have her prepared for a shootout and not have any sort of weapon to counter it. But firearms and gun are not Catwoman.

:facepalm

Really? So, she will most definitely never get shot doing what she's doing? I'm not talking about some huge ass bulletproof vest. I'm talking about something sleek like Batman wears. I'd hate to be on your side in a robbery.

[regwec]

That must be why real life robbers all wear bullet proof armour from head to foot.

[Cunning Stunts]

That must be why real life robbers all wear bullet proof armour from head to foot.

Ever see the NoCal robbery/assault on Bank of America?

[KalMart]

Ever see the NoCal robbery/assault on Bank of America?
Y'mean the one that took place at gunpoint during business hours in broad daylight?

[Two-Face]

Hmmmmm.........


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1855/gijoemoviescarlettshana.jpg


I don't like that, she looks like Batwoman.

[jmc]

:facepalm

Really? So, she will most definitely never get shot doing what she's doing? I'm not talking about some huge ass bulletproof vest. I'm talking about something sleek like Batman wears. I'd hate to be on your side in a robbery.

Yeah, cat burglars who do all their stealing at night when few people are around and the chances of being caught are minimal all the time wear protective armour on the off chance they get shot at, such as ......ah, help me out here...I'm struggling to figure out any cat burglar, real life or fictitious who's ever warn head to toe armour. The reason being? They don't need it.

[flickchick85]

Like Cat-ears? :woot:
Cat-ears are of course the one part that give me pause on the "practical" approach, but they found a practical purpose for the Bat-ears, so maybe she can just take a cue from Batman after she has trouble eavesdropping one night. :woot:

[KalMart]

Cat-ears are of course the one part that give me pause on the "practical" approach, but they found a practical purpose for the Bat-ears, so maybe she can just take a cue from Batman after she has trouble eavesdropping one night. :woot:
Batman's costume speaks to his mission...and a statement that he is clearly trying to make with his presence. He wants criminals to know they've been 'punk'd by the Bat', and that he's out there watching them. He wants them to be afraid and cautious.

If Catwoman wants to steal just for herself and continue to do so by not being noticed or identifiable by anyone, and NOT cause alarm or extra cautious measures ...why would she need cat-ears if they're not....sonar-nodes or the like? What good is a fashion statement if you don't want anyone to see it? :O

[CaptainClown]

I could see her do it to get the attention of batman. As well as an F U to the mob... I could actually hear her say dressing up at night is the latest trend in gotham so she has got to accessorize.

[KalMart]

I could see her do it to get the attention of batman. As well as an F U to the mob... I could actually hear her say dressing up at night is the latest trend in gotham so she has got to accessorize.

Well, if she's out to say F U to the mob, she better be equipped to protect herself in case they feel like saying F U back, no? Armor and weaponry might not be a crazy idea then. Unless, of course, it's the whole 'ring the doorbell and run away' bit. Hmm yeah...cool villain there. :oldrazz:

And why would she want to get Batman's 'attention' if all he'll do is put her in jail? Does she want to hurt him or destroy his reputation, like Joker did? If so....it'll probably take more than ears if she wants to keep doing it. :D

That's why I'm saying that in these Batman stories, the main villains are bigger than just what they do/want for themselves...they're making statements, representing an element of society or at least challenging one....just as Batman is while fighting against them. If that's not what Catwoman is, then maybe it's better not to use her than to try and morph her into something that fits that, or compromise the story's approach to accommodate her. Unless you want to work her in as a side-character on the level of Scarecrow in BB or the Russian Mob-leader in TDK....but I'm sure some would feel it a waste for someone they want to play a much more major role.

It's also why I question the whole 'Catwoman identifies with Batman' and vice versa. Which Catwoman, and which Batman? How would a self-interested catburglar's goals/needs/outlook be identifiable with those of this Batman...who is trying ot protect an entire city? Again, if Catwoman was some sort of Robin Hood-ish character who was making a statement about bureaucracy or discrepancies in terms of civil liberties, etc....I could see them connecting on something. But then that might be pushing it with Catwoman to a point of being contrived...and maybe just not Catwoman. It's a tough call.

[Crook]

Why can't the ears just be for herself? As in feline imagery being something symbolic to her. If not symbolic, the equivalent of breast implants to a girl that just likes a more shapely chest, not particularly to get attention. :o

[KalMart]

Why can't the ears just be for herself? As in feline imagery being something symbolic to her. If not symbolic, the equivalent of breast implants to a girl that just likes a more shapely chest, not particularly to get attention. :o

How about they go with the second and not the first? :D


Who knows, maybe she does tend to look at her reflection while committing burglaries. 'Course, that could just mean she's vain, but what the heck.

Basically, I could see her having a cat-like costume if she is indeed trying to make a statement....like she knows she's caught on surveillance video. But then again, what statement is she making by stealing? Is she trying to draw out Batman, and if so, what for? What's her outlook on what Batman is or what he's doing, and if she knows that drawing him out will most likely mean she'll have to confront him...what does she plan to do once they meet? Should the filmmakers try and turn it into a "Thomas Crown Affair" for the third and final chapter of this Batman saga?

[Crook]

I would think anyone who makes a living/hobby out of actions that specifically break the law, suffer from a bit of vanity.

[KalMart]

I would think anyone who makes a living/hobby out of actions that specifically break the law, suffer from a bit of vanity.

Would that be enough? She dresses up as a cat because....she's vain? She just wants to look better to herself? Her taking on the image of a cat (assuming that the ears are the only thing that would differentiate her 'look' from just a woman in a black bodysuit) is equivalent in story significance/function/purpose to someone getting breast implants?



Alfred: Why Bats, sir?

Wayne: I just like how I look in the whole get-up...to me, that is. Kinda' like.....getting hair implants.


:D:grin::oldrazz:

[Ace of Knaves]

I was thinking about accessories for Catwoman. What about some sorta high tech night vision goggles? It makes sense for her to have them so she can scope out places on a job, and it also symbolizes cat eyes, which are obviously perfect for seeing at night.

[[A]]

she stole Bats' sonar thingy! that and Daredevil's..

[KalMart]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2148/missionimpossiblesplash.jpg

[jmc]

Why can't the ears just be for herself? As in feline imagery being something symbolic to her.

That is the easiest explanation for the Cat mask, it's symbolic for her, it's not to make any sort of statement or to tease people into a guessing game or any sort of high tech piece of equipment, it's a personal trinket, perhaps a good luck charm, people wear symbols on them all the time for various reasons, it's not really any different.

[KalMart]

That is the easiest explanation for the Cat mask, it's symbolic for her, it's not to make any sort of statement or to tease people into a guessing game or any sort of high tech piece of equipment, it's a personal trinket, perhaps a good luck charm, people wear symbols on them all the time for various reasons, it's not really any different.

Not the most interesting introduction to a villain, is it? Makes it rather arbitrary....like if she happened to like bunnies instead of cats....

There should be some meaning/significance to the cat imagery, and hence to what she does beyond her own 'enjoyment' if they want to use her as part of these Batman moves. The question is, will it be too 'projected/manufactured', or is there something inherent in the character's history that can be drawn from that's uniquely her?

[Crook]

Would that be enough? She dresses up as a cat because....she's vain? She just wants to look better to herself?
Can I ask why this has to be explored further? Do you ask yourself why Riddler wears green and purple? Why Ivy has little clothing? Why everything associated with Batman has the same titled prefix? Why does Batman have a chest logo if barely anyone gets to see it?

I hate to approve of such a simplistic answer, but some things just are. It's one thing if there's room to create depth, but this is bordering on needlessly over-analyzing.

Her taking on the image of a cat (assuming that the ears are the only thing that would differentiate her 'look' from just a woman in a black bodysuit) is equivalent in story significance/function/purpose to someone getting breast implants?

The breast implants were merely my way of a comedic substitute. The analogy is meant to represent actions/imagery created by an individual for no other purpose than self-indulgence. That's basically all that it boils down to. You want to critique it, I suggest looking at Batman, because he is quite possibly the worst offender.

Not the most interesting introduction to a villain, is it? Makes it rather arbitrary....like if she happened to like bunnies instead of cats....
1) Not a villain
2) It's a stupid thing to nitpick about, to be honest

3) The image is established. Catwoman, next to WW, is the most recognized comic book female in the world. She has a thing for cats. She puts on a catsuit. People already accept it. Not everything has to be complex. And it's not a particularly puzzling or tough concept to grasp. It's two very small objects protruding from the headpiece. Not that big of a deal.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I think it is a stupid thing to nit pick about.

Selina Kyle likes cats, she is a cat burglar, therefore, she wears cat themed things like the pointed ears. Simple as that. We don't need a contrived reason for every single thing in these movies.

[flickchick85]

Again, I don't think she's a villain, and I don't think she needs the theatrics. And I really don't want some sort of heavy-handed emphasis on the imagery (what it means, "look this is why she's CATwoman!" etc.) because frankly, I don't think that's remotely the interesting aspect of her character, and it would be near impossible to make that not feel contrived. She can be referenced as "Catwoman" because she's the East End Cat(burglar) who turns out to be a woman. She doesn't need to go around purring or making cat puns ala Burton/Pfeiffer - that would be instant cheese in a self-serious world like Nolan's Batworld - and that includes creating herself a costume that looks like a Cat. It just seems silly. The costume explanation seemed borderline contrived for Batman Begins, imo, but they made it work. Trying it again would be pushing the "contrivance factor" just a smidge to far, imo. They don't even need to say the word "Catwoman" for everyone in the audience to know who she is, or Alfred or someone can just call her that in passing.

But yes, the ears are iconic, and the only "costume" aspect of her aesthetic that seems necessary, but several options have already been mentioned that can be used to make it "practical" as well. They aren't that cartoonish, as Crook pointed out. Not like skin-tight leather or gratuitous cleavage or a tail would be. And like I said, even if she adopts the ears as an homage to Batman - boom, ears explained, everything seems relatively plausible. No "costume" necessary.

And I think her ego/vanity is an essential part of her character, so it wouldn't be a throwaway reason - it would actually be saying something about her.

[KalMart]

Can I ask why this has to be explored further?
Because so far there isn't enough about her character that's giving her a good reason to be included. So im a way, it's looking from the outside in.

Do you ask yourself why Riddler wears green and purple? Why Ivy has little clothing? Why everything associated with Batman has the same titled prefix?
I would if they were to include it in these movies, yes. Colors on the riddler are one thing, but the question mark, etc...what does that represent, and what does he represent? It's not 'why are the ears black'...it's 'why the ears?, and 'why is she doing this?'

Why does Batman have a chest logo if barely anyone gets to see it?
Already been answered...because everything about him in these movies is symbollic and for a purpose as well as function. It's for making an impression on others, letting them know who'll get them, etc. Same with the Joker...albeit with a different statement/purpose.

I hate to approve of such a simplistic answer, but some things just are. It's one thing if there's room to create depth, but this is bordering on needlessly over-analyzing.
I don't think so...it's more a case of oversimplifying, justified by preexistence in comics/shows/other movies etc. Nolan's taken a specific approach to these movies, and whoever they use should measure up to that....especially one thaht's hoped to be as significant as Catwoman allegedly is. Things 'just being' may work in some circumstances/potrayals, but not others...even though both circumstances involve the same people.


The breast implants were merely my way of a comedic substitute.
And nicely put....as well as appropriate. :up:

The analogy is meant to represent actions/imagery created by an individual for no other purpose than self-indulgence. That's basically all that it boils down to. You want to critique it, I suggest looking at Batman, because he is quite possibly the worst offender.
Yet this Batman is working for the greater good...and not as an excuse, but as his true purpose. There really are no other major characters who operate on pure self-indulgence, and there really isn't any place for them either.


1) Not a villain
2) It's a stupid thing to nitpick about, to be honest
1) It's not only relevant to villains, but for any major character.
2) It's not nitpicking, it's details...and details are important beyond what they just are or appear to be.

3) The image is established. Catwoman, next to WW, is the most recognized comic book female in the world. She has a thing for cats. She puts on a catsuit. People already accept it.
They've accepted it before.....but what's now may not quite be what was before. These movies have not just banked on the comic-recognizability of the characters to involve audiences with their stories. They've uniquely reinterpreted them and built them from the ground up in their story. That's the real acceptance.

Not everything has to be complex.
It's really not that complex...it's basic storytelling handled particularly well so far. It becomes complicated when you try to maintain quality while skimming over it.

And it's not a particularly puzzling or tough concept to grasp. It's two very small objects protruding from the headpiece. Not that big of a deal.
I don't think it should be that simplistic. These movies are as good as they are because that's not enough...to include someone just for the sake of them being there because they're part of the preexisting landscape or what have you. That's the difference between making the movie work for it....and it working for you/the film. The latter is what's made the last two Batman movies what they are much moreso than the former, and I believe that's much more important in maintaining the quality of these films than bypassing the 'why' because they just 'are'.

I'm not saying it has to be that for every form of Batman story told....but for these it needs it.

[jmc]

Not the most interesting introduction to a villain, is it? Makes it rather arbitrary....like if she happened to like bunnies instead of cats....

There should be some meaning/significance to the cat imagery, and hence to what she does beyond her own 'enjoyment' if they want to use her as part of these Batman moves. The question is, will it be too 'projected/manufactured', or is there something inherent in the character's history that can be drawn from that's uniquely her?

As others have already pointed out, she's not a villain, she's your classic anti-heroine. I'm not sure why you need the cat symbol to have some sort of deep seeded meaning, but if you must have one, then cats for centuries have been held in such high esteem by various cultures, some even considered cats as a sort of spiritual guide for people. Perhaps Selina Kyle sees cats as a guide for her because no-one else in her life has been.

[KalMart]

As others have already pointed out, she's not a villain.
Whether she's an actual villain or not....she's supposed to be a major character in the story, no? So again, I think any major character should have more significance in that particular story than just being a traditional character from the comics.

I'm not sure why you need the cat symbol to have some sort of deep seeded meaning, but if you must have one, then cats for centuries have been held in such high esteem by various cultures, some even considered cats as a sort of spiritual guide for people. Perhaps Selina Kyle sees cats as a guide for her because no-one else in her life has been.
It doesn't have to be 'deep'...but it should have some significance to the story at hand aside from her just liking cats for whatever personal reason. It could be a way of taunting/mocking Batman's theatricality if she wants to confront him or what not....and we'd find out why she makes her presence known and wants to confront him, and so on. I'm just saying that people should be open to utilizing the character that way....and the question is whether it's okay to do that with her, or are the better not doing that and using someone else.

But yes, the ears are iconic, and the only "costume" aspect of her aesthetic that seems necessary, but several options have already been mentioned that can be used to make it "practical" as well. They aren't that cartoonish, as Crook pointed out. Not like skin-tight leather or gratuitous cleavage or a tail would be. And like I said, even if she adopts the ears as an homage to Batman - boom, ears explained, everything seems relatively plausible. No "costume" necessary.
And that could be cool as well...as long as there's a reason to the 'homage'. We should know what she thinks of Batman, what she wants from him and why, etc.

And I think her ego/vanity is an essential part of her character, so it wouldn't be a throwaway reason - it would actually be saying something about her.
It's not a throwaway at all, but it shouldn't be the end-all explanation or significance. If what she is doing altogether is only for ego/vanity, then that makes her throwaway...or just a throw-in. With all that Batman has to deal with, someone who's only doing something for ego is pretty small-fry. Cuffs, jail, done....regardless of what they're dressed as....like Scarecrow simply selling drugs in TDK. She should be more than that, no? ;)

[KalMart]

As others have already pointed out, she's not a villain.
Whether she's an actual villain or not....she's supposed to be a major character in the story, no? So again, I think any major character should have more significance in that particular story than just being a traditional character from the comics.

I'm not sure why you need the cat symbol to have some sort of deep seeded meaning, but if you must have one, then cats for centuries have been held in such high esteem by various cultures, some even considered cats as a sort of spiritual guide for people. Perhaps Selina Kyle sees cats as a guide for her because no-one else in her life has been.
It doesn't have to be 'deep'...but it should have some significance to the story at hand aside from her just liking cats for whatever personal reason. It could be a way of taunting/mocking Batman's theatricality if she wants to confront him or what not....and we'd find out why she makes her presence known and wants to confront him, and so on. I'm just saying that people should be open to utilizing the character that way....and the question is whether it's okay to do that with her, or are the better not doing that and using someone else.

Basically...if it turns out that the writers feel they want to give her thievery more purpose than just her doing it for herself....is that okay? Can we trust them to construct it as deftly as they have with previous efforts....or is that so going against what the 'true' Catwoman is in principle, that it devalues using her altogether?

Myself, I would like them to do some reinterpretation to expand her more from 'just doing it for herself', because I think it would be better for these kinds of movies....with the hope that the character will remain uniquely 'Catwoman'.....IF they use her. :O

Sorry folks...I didn't mean to come off as saying I think the character sucks or whatever. I would want her or any other character to be as good or important as what we've gotten so far from both villains and allies alike. But I think Catwoman will take some serious work/adaptation to meet up to that for this Batman world. And I think these filmmakers are capable of doing it well if we let them stretch out. Hopefully they won't opt for armor. :oldrazz:

[KalMart]

Anyway...how about Jamie King as Catwoman? :D

[Laderlappen]

Why are we discussing the ears? Batman have ears and they dont do one bloody thing.

[CaptainClown]

Well, if she's out to say F U to the mob, she better be equipped to protect herself in case they feel like saying F U back, no? Armor and weaponry might not be a crazy idea then. Unless, of course, it's the whole 'ring the doorbell and run away' bit. Hmm yeah...cool villain there. :oldrazz:

And why would she want to get Batman's 'attention' if all he'll do is put her in jail? Does she want to hurt him or destroy his reputation, like Joker did? If so....it'll probably take more than ears if she wants to keep doing it. :D

That's why I'm saying that in these Batman stories, the main villains are bigger than just what they do/want for themselves...they're making statements, representing an element of society or at least challenging one....just as Batman is while fighting against them. If that's not what Catwoman is, then maybe it's better not to use her than to try and morph her into something that fits that, or compromise the story's approach to accommodate her. Unless you want to work her in as a side-character on the level of Scarecrow in BB or the Russian Mob-leader in TDK....but I'm sure some would feel it a waste for someone they want to play a much more major role.

It's also why I question the whole 'Catwoman identifies with Batman' and vice versa. Which Catwoman, and which Batman? How would a self-interested catburglar's goals/needs/outlook be identifiable with those of this Batman...who is trying ot protect an entire city? Again, if Catwoman was some sort of Robin Hood-ish character who was making a statement about bureaucracy or discrepancies in terms of civil liberties, etc....I could see them connecting on something. But then that might be pushing it with Catwoman to a point of being contrived...and maybe just not Catwoman. It's a tough call.
There is nothing more insulting then going up against someone who underestimates you. It is like going to war wearing no shirt. Sure you might get hurt but you are telling your enemy that you are confident you won't get hit.

[jmc]

Whether she's an actual villain or not....she's supposed to be a major character in the story, no? So again, I think any major character should have more significance in that particular story than just being a traditional character from the comics.


It doesn't have to be 'deep'...but it should have some significance to the story at hand aside from her just liking cats for whatever personal reason. It could be a way of taunting/mocking Batman's theatricality if she wants to confront him or what not....and we'd find out why she makes her presence known and wants to confront him, and so on. I'm just saying that people should be open to utilizing the character that way....and the question is whether it's okay to do that with her, or are the better not doing that and using someone else.

Basically...if it turns out that the writers feel they want to give her thievery more purpose than just her doing it for herself....is that okay? Can we trust them to construct it as deftly as they have with previous efforts....or is that so going against what the 'true' Catwoman is in principle, that it devalues using her altogether?

Myself, I would like them to do some reinterpretation to expand her more from 'just doing it for herself', because I think it would be better for these kinds of movies....with the hope that the character will remain uniquely 'Catwoman'.....IF they use her. :O

Sorry folks...I didn't mean to come off as saying I think the character sucks or whatever. I would want her or any other character to be as good or important as what we've gotten so far from both villains and allies alike. But I think Catwoman will take some serious work/adaptation to meet up to that for this Batman world. And I think these filmmakers are capable of doing it well if we let them stretch out. Hopefully they won't opt for armor. :oldrazz:

You don't come off sounding like the character sucks, but you do come across like you're trying to find excuses to not include her, going into obscure detail as to why the Cat mask should have more meaning than it needs to be. It's like your trying to make an already complex character even more complex, adding unnecessary garnishing when none is needed. Catwoman is not a hard character to adapt into Nolan's world, sure he gives justification for everything, but going into some long winded and thought provoking explanation as to why she wears the mask is doing nothing but wasting time when it doesn't need to be explored in the first place, you're over thinking everything. The symbol of the cat has meaning to her, just as a religious icon has meaning to many people, and like I said, the cat in many cultures is considered a divine creature.

[elgato]

This disussion on her suit is getting pretty interesting. The designs I like a lot and think would work are these:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Gato-Chico/catwoman_poster_02.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Gato-Chico/catwoman_marion_cotillard.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Gato-Chico/Catwoman_Marion_Cotillard_Poster-6.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Gato-Chico/catwoman_manip_00_gato_chico.png

The catsuit is would be mainly done with a leather-ish hard silk, like the ones ninjas use, black, obviously, that represents the original suit and leather gloves to keep the femme fatale style. The helmet is Kevlar made, like Batman's, as a protection of falls. The backpack is where she would keep her loot and a pair of night vision goggles that uses at the time of the robbery. Her utility belt guards small gas bombs and small arsenal like shurikens and that kind of stuff. Her boots are big CATERPILLAR that boots reach down the knees but without the ties, and covered all with the same material than the whole costume.

[In most of the pics I didn't added the zipper, `cos I thought it would be like a point for enemies to find]

[anrrd_2]

^ love love love them....cant for the life of me figure out who that is under the mask. but i love it none the less

[elgato]

Marion Cotillard in all of them ;) Thanks for the support

[regwec]

That's a great design, Elgato. The only change I think you should make is to move the chest-strap of her backpack below her breasts. It will be less eye-catching and more complimentary of her figure, there.

[KalMart]

You don't come off sounding like the character sucks, but you do come across like you're trying to find excuses to not include her, going into obscure detail as to why the Cat mask should have more meaning than it needs to be. It's like your trying to make an already complex character even more complex, adding unnecessary garnishing when none is needed. Catwoman is not a hard character to adapt into Nolan's world, sure he gives justification for everything, but going into some long winded and thought provoking explanation as to why she wears the mask is doing nothing but wasting time when it doesn't need to be explored in the first place, you're over thinking everything. The symbol of the cat has meaning to her, just as a religious icon has meaning to many people, and like I said, the cat in many cultures is considered a divine creature.

Again...it's not JUST the mask, and not something that needs to be too deep or analytical...this is all pretty basic narrative. That's only an example, but certainly something these writers would think about. And although I'm not looking for an excuse not to use her, it seems too easy to excuse including her just because she's a Batman character from the comics etc. Never mind the garnish, the question is what's the meat of it for this particular usage? Again, I don't think her 'just doing it for herself' is enough.

I totally understand people wanting to see her because....they want to see her and like the character. And I appreciate that....but the simple way that some are describing her just doesn't seem like a good fit for these movies. That's why I'm all for it if we let the Nolans create an interesting adapted concept of her, and her place in the overall narrative like they've done with all the major characters so far. It's not just change for change's sake, it helps the film. I just think we should be open to that.

[KalMart]

There is nothing more insulting then going up against someone who underestimates you. It is like going to war wearing no shirt. Sure you might get hurt but you are telling your enemy that you are confident you won't get hit.

That could be cool. Now....once we get why she's taunting the mob.....like what they did to her to make her do this for example, we'll be getting somewhere. :up:

[regwec]

I think the idea of the ears being a simple visual flourish works the best. She is familiar with Batman, perhaps basing her image on his (as seen in "Year One"), so the catburglar becomes "Catwoman", and the press lap it up. She is a thrill seeker, and notoriety just means there are bigger thrills to seek.

As for her wearing just a lycra (or whatever) suit- there are many reasons she may not wear body armour. It's likely she doesn't need it, it impedes her, and it is unavailable. After all, she lacks a Batcave, a Wayne fortune, an Alfred or a Lucius Fox.

[KalMart]

I think the idea of the ears being a simple visual flourish works the best. She is familiar with Batman, perhaps basing her image on his (as seen in "Year One"), so the catburglar becomes "Catwoman", and the press lap it up. She is a thrill seeker, and notoriety just means there are bigger thrills to seek.
Which I like too....at least there's an inspiration for her 'look'. But along with the thrill-seeking, as I gathered from Year One, she also had a grudge with the mob, no? Also in Year One, her being a prositute (?) from the ghettos also gave her motivation against those who prey on that part of society as well, or something like that? Although I'm not sure how people would take to Catwoman being a former hooker or what have you.

[Cunning Stunts]

Why are we discussing the ears? Batman have ears and they dont do one bloody thing.

In Batman Begins, I thought they showed that there are radar sensors in them that allow him to hear everything around him more vividly...

[KalMart]

In Batman Begins, I thought they showed that there are radar sensors in them that allow him to hear everything around him more vividly...

And he actually wants to strike fear in wrongdoers with his overall image. "I'm Batman" :D

[jmc]

Again...it's not JUST the mask, and not something that needs to be too deep or analytical...this is all pretty basic narrative. That's only an example, but certainly something these writers would think about. And although I'm not looking for an excuse not to use her, it seems too easy to excuse including her just because she's a Batman character from the comics etc. Never mind the garnish, the question is what's the meat of it for this particular usage? Again, I don't think her 'just doing it for herself' is enough.



She wouldn't be included just coz she a Batman character, she'd be included coz she's one of the pivotal Batman characters, Catwoman is up there with Joker and Two-Face in terms of characters that have a deeper and more personal connection to Batman/Bruce Wayne. You keep saying that it's not just the mask but you continue to make it seem like it's the issue that stopping the character from working on screen. You want a character with 'meat', you don't need the mask to do that, you don't need explanation of why she wears what she does for her to be a deep character, hell it makes the character all the more mysterious and interesting if you don't know why she wears it. The character is much more complex than simply what she wears, focusing on such a petty element when there are other avenues that are more important to explore is doing nothing but wasting time.

[Cunning Stunts]

And he actually wants to strike fear in wrongdoers with his overall image. "I'm Batman" :D

Well, yeah, most definitely. That kind of went without saying though. :p

I think the ears would do the same for Catwoman. I'd **** a brick if I were protecting large sums of jewelry and/or money, and some dark figure with big ass ears was creeping through the shadows.

Until she said, "I'm the Goddamn Catwoman."

[KalMart]

She wouldn't be included just coz she a Batman character, she'd be included coz she's one of the pivotal Batman characters, Catwoman is up there with Joker and Two-Face in terms of characters that have a deeper and more personal connection to Batman/Bruce Wayne.
Would it be clear in the movie why she's so pivotal? Because it was for Joker and Two-Face....and not just because of their comic-presence, or because they just liked what they were doing.


You keep saying that it's not just the mask but you continue to make it seem like it's the issue that stopping the character from working on screen.
What you're missing is that the mask is only one part of the whole. The same as claws would be if that's what came up in conversation. It happened to be the ears, but they all apply...or hopefully should.

You want a character with 'meat', you don't need the mask to do that, you don't need explanation of why she wears what she does for her to be a deep character, hell it makes the character all the more mysterious and interesting if you don't know why she wears it.
Again, it all goes back to why she does what she does. If that's well defined and integrated into the story and feel of what this Batman world is, then it makes the details all the more interesting and significant than just being there 'because'. It's not a lot to ask.

The character is much more complex than simply what she wears,
We'd hope so.

focusing on such a petty element when there are other avenues that are more important to explore is doing nothing but wasting time.
What part of 'it's not just about the ears' did you not get? Whether it's the ears, claws, whip...provide those 'avenues' first and those details will highlight them. Why a cat...why is she a cat-burglar...and what about her attracts Batman, if that's what people want to see? 'Because she likes it' isn't enough of an avenue, that's all I'm saying. She needs to be a more significant part of the bigger scheme of things if the next movie wants to measure up to its predecessors.

[KalMart]

Well, yeah, most definitely. That kind of went without saying though. :p

I think the ears would do the same for Catwoman. I'd **** a brick if I were protecting large sums of jewelry and/or money, and some dark figure with big ass ears was creeping through the shadows.

Until she said, "I'm the Goddamn Catwoman."

But doesn't a cat-burglar sneak in and out undetected and unnoticed? Batman may approach stealthily, but once he's there, he sure wants the people he's after to know it's him, y'know? Whereas a cat-burglar depends on their victims not knowing it's them.

But if she's looking to make a statement with her thefts....like some thief leaving a calling card, now we're talking.

[jmc]

Would it be clear in the movie why she's so pivotal? Because it was for Joker and Two-Face....and not just because of their comic-presence, or because they just liked what they were doing.



What you're missing is that the mask is only one part of the whole. The same as claws would be if that's what came up in conversation. It happened to be the ears, but they all apply...or hopefully should.


Again, it all goes back to why she does what she does. If that's well defined and integrated into the story and feel of what this Batman world is, then it makes the details all the more interesting and significant than just being there 'because'. It's not a lot to ask.


We'd hope so.


What part of 'it's not just about the ears' did you not get? Whether it's the ears, claws, whip...provide those 'avenues' first and those details will highlight them. Why a cat.....and why is she a cat-burglar? 'Because she likes it' isn't enough of an avenue, that's all I'm saying. She needs to be a more significant part of the bigger scheme of things if the next movie wants to measure up to its predecessors.

I swear you're just arguing for the sake of it, either that you're not overly familiar with the Catwoman character or you're being too comic literal in your thinking.

[KalMart]

I swear you're just arguing for the sake of it,
Absolutely not, don't get so defensive. This is all for the better of what the character should be in the movie, and making the whole movie work well.

either that you're not overly familiar with the Catwoman character.
Then help explain it...I'd really like to know. What else is there aside from 'she just likes doing it' that would make her a good character for one of these Batman movies? How could she be 'pivotal' in the story? I think it's great to come up with these ideas....and if you are familiar, by all means, let's fill in some of these areas.

[Blackman]

What are you guys debating about?

[KalMart]

What are you guys debating about?

It's simple, really. I'm just looking for what the dramatic significance, as could be established in the story, that Catwoman would be in one of these Batman movies....beyond her just doing what she does because she likes it.

You could really just break it down to three questions:

1) Why a cat?

2) What's her motivation behind being a cat-burglar?

3) How does her motivation dramatically impact the entire storyline?

If you ask those same kinda of questions about Batman, Joker, the League Of Shadows, or Dent/Two-Face...you get quite a lot of juicy stuff. I would hope you could for Catwoman as well.

[Cunning Stunts]

But doesn't a cat-burglar sneak in and out undetected and unnoticed? Batman may approach stealthily, but once he's there, he sure wants the people he's after to know it's him, y'know? Whereas a cat-burglar depends on their victims not knowing it's them.

But if she's looking to make a statement with her thefts....like some thief leaving a calling card, now we're talking.

All a "catburglar" is... Well, is a burglar (sure one better at stealth, but that doesn't mean there aren't others who will catch them). There's no real distinction with burglary and image. Some do it haphazardly, some charge in, point a gun in your face and steal everything, and others get in and get out without ever being caught or noticed. Selina's very arrogant and confident in the comics, and there's no reason she would wear a suit that would act as such a signature at all if she were really worried about getting caught or being known. The way I always saw it, she doesn't care if you know it's her or not- she knows you'll never catch her regardless. All this talk about her never being around her victims is just odd, and I have no clue where it came from. She was even shot at by Falcone a number of times (and she was also hit- at leastonce- mind you all who were arguing about her never needing protection :whatever:).

[Blackman]

Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Catwoman would act as that popular Batman character. Selina Kyle will be a socialite. She would be a femme fatale (seems like she always wants to get Bruce in trouble, her motives are unclear, she has a shady past). She is a Batman copycat (heh) but she uses her skills to rob jewelry and the Maroni crime family. She would already be Catwoman when the movie starts, no Catwoman origin story.
She would be a robin hood character 1 second (stealing the mob's money and giving it to the poor people of Gotham) but then she would steal jewels and use the money to benefit herself. Also Catwoman could give Batman a physical martial arts challenge which would be cool to see

So basically she should do it for 2 different reasons fun/sport and revenge

[KalMart]

All a "catburglar" is... Well, is a burglar. There's no real distinction with burglary and image. Some do it haphazardly, some charge in, point a gun in your face and steal everything, and others get in and get out without ever being caught or noticed. Selina's very arrogant and confident in the comics, and there's no reason she would wear a suit that would act as such a signature at all if she were really worried about getting caught or being known. The way I always saw it, she doesn't care if you know it's her or not- she knows you'll never catch her regardless. All this talk about her never being around her victims is just odd, and I have no clue where it came from. She was even shot at by Falcone a number of times (where she was also hit, mind you all who were arguing about her never needing protection :whatever:).
Cool. Now how would you work a character like that into one of these storylines? What would make her pivotal in the overall stakes that are at hand? The way that TDK leaves off, Batman's reputation is in jeopardy, he's taken the blame for deaths, whatever was organized about the crime underworld is now in disarray (which could lead to open warfare), and police corruption....as well as the policy on Batman.....falls squarely on the shoulders of Gordon now that he's police commissioner. Where would Catwoman fit in?

[KalMart]

"Selina Kyle/Catwoman"
Catwoman would act as that popular Batman character. Selina Kyle will be a socialite. She would be a femme fatale (seems like she always wants to get Bruce in trouble, her motives are unclear, she has a shady past). She is a Batman copycat (heh) but she uses her skills to rob jewelry and the Maroni crime family. She would already be Catwoman when the movie starts, no Catwoman origin story.
She would be a robin hood character 1 second (stealing the mob's money and giving it to the poor people of Gotham) but then she would steal jewels and use the money to benefit herself. Also Catwoman could give Batman a physical martial arts challenge which would be cool to see"

So basically she should do it for 2 different reasons fun/sport and revenge

There we go! :up: I think that's a good start. Now what's her grudge?

[Blackman]

I think that your only narrowing on part of what I said she does it for fun AND revenge
But, I'm not sure what her grudge should be

[KalMart]

I think that your only narrowing on part of what I said she does it for fun AND revenge
But, I'm not sure what her grudge should be

No, by all means, include the fun. But for the rest of the story and her place in it, I'd like to know what the revenge is all about...who/what wronged her and compelled her to seek revenge. Does Batman identify with her vengeance? Does he try and make her realize that it's not just revenge for him, it's bigger and more important for the greater good, etc...i.e. revenge isn't an excuse, or a means to an end? Then she could counter with the fun part....as in, Batman looks pretty darn miserable, while she's having the time of her life, and so on. There's a lot of potential in there.

[flickchick85]

And that could be cool as well...as long as there's a reason to the 'homage'. We should know what she thinks of Batman, what she wants from him and why, etc.


It's not a throwaway at all, but it shouldn't be the end-all explanation or significance. If what she is doing altogether is only for ego/vanity, then that makes her throwaway...or just a throw-in. With all that Batman has to deal with, someone who's only doing something for ego is pretty small-fry. Cuffs, jail, done....regardless of what they're dressed as....like Scarecrow simply selling drugs in TDK. She should be more than that, no? ;)
Of course, I thought these things went without saying, but yes, I agree. Of course there's more to her (and what she thinks of Batman) than that. I was just speaking in relation to the ears. I just don't think explanations for things like that should be spelled out for us - the audience doesn't need to be spoonfed. If they really want to know why she has the ears, explanations can be in the film if they are looking for them, but no need to waste screen time spoon-feeding them that sort of thing.

Why are we discussing the ears? Batman have ears and they dont do one bloody thing.
Cunning's right, Batman's ears did serve a purpose in BB - they blocked out interference with his listening device. Remember, when he just had a bare antennae there and he couldn't hear what he was trying to hear, so he tried covering it up with his hood. Then the next scene, we see him putting the antennae in a bat-ear, and voila, practical purpose.

Here's an example of an organic way to "explain" the ears without spoon feeding: she's already gained the moniker of "East End Cat." Her best friend in the world may be her cat. One night she's trying to eavesdrop on the same target as Batman (who doesn't know she's there yet), and she witnesses him using his "ear antenna" and clearly having much better luck at listening than she is with her crude listening device. After this she has perhaps her first confrontation with Batman, narrowly escapes, and of course becomes instantly infatuated with him. In the background of another scene we can see her putting her antennae in a set of ears just like his, and she could say something to her cat like, "you like my you impression?" In her next confrontation with Batman she's got the ears and she can snark something at him like, "you had the right idea" or "an homage to you." Or something to that effect. We don't need her worshiping cats or explaining their symbolic meaning to her or anything like that. That would just be too much, imo.


RE: Catwoman's grudge - the corrupt in power of Gotham city. That's why she has no qualms about stealing from the rich, and why she has zero regard for the law. I see the main difference between Batman's and Catwoman's codes of ethics to be that Batman sees the Gotham police as an institution that lost their way but that he ultimately wants to help and get going back in the right direction, and Selina sees them as the enemy (but perhaps not the source of the problem), as she probably grew up on the streets of the Narrows or something and witnessed the worst of the police corruption. But yes, I think it would serve the story to have her using her now considerable wealth (mostly obtained illegally of course) to help those in Gotham who she deems deserving through her various charities. So she would indeed see herself as a modern day Robin Hood type.

But she does LOVE the thrill, and never suggests otherwise. She should keep trying to convince Batman that he should take a little more pride and joy in what he does as well. She probably thinks he does enjoy it a little more than he'd like to admit.

[KalMart]

Of course, I thought these things went without saying, but yes, I agree. Of course there's more to her (and what she thinks of Batman) than that. I was just speaking in relation to the ears. I just don't think explanations for things like that should be spelled out for us - the audience doesn't need to be spoonfed. If they really want to know why she has the ears, explanations can be in the film if they are looking for them, but no need to waste screen time spoon-feeding them that sort of thing.
I never said they needed to, as long as something in the character...as provided/portrayed in that movie...would let it sit well. If we know why she's a burglar, and why she chooses the cat motif, then there's no reason to ask about the ears. I just want the reason why she's a burglar and a cat to propel the narrative well. If they don't, and she just shows up thieving with ears/catsuit because she likes it...well.....

[Laderlappen]

Cunning's right, Batman's ears did serve a purpose in BB - they blocked out interference with his listening device. Remember, when he just had a bare antennae there and he couldn't hear what he was trying to hear, so he tried covering it up with his hood. Then the next scene, we see him putting the antennae in a bat-ear, and voila, practical purpose.You might be right. I dont remember anything about what you are talking about but whatever...forget about it.
Anyway Catwoman has ears because she is trying to resemble a cat. Easy as that!

[KalMart]

You might be right. I dont remember anything about what you are talking about but whatever...forget about it.
Anyway Catwoman has ears because she is trying to resemble a cat. Easy as that!

Why is she resembling anything...and why a cat? :woot: Heh...

I like the idea of her wanting to steal from the mob and humiliate them....perhaps for things they did to her and her community in the past... and being inspired by Batman's theatrics. But also, part of being 'cat-like' might be her philosophy of only looking out for 'number one'...instead of higher cause since people will only turn on you....like they did with Batman. I'm just wondering if there can be more to it than just them fighting/flirting like that, though. Is she a key or obstacle in Batman redeeming his place with the people of Gotham, and clearing his name with the police? Will the Gotham citizens be put to another morality test like in TDK...with dire consequences either way...and what would Catwoman have to do with it, etc?

Maybe a bigger villain wants to use her to lure Batman out so that he can be eliminated once and for all.

[Cunning Stunts]

Cool. Now how would you work a character like that into one of these storylines? What would make her pivotal in the overall stakes that are at hand? The way that TDK leaves off, Batman's reputation is in jeopardy, he's taken the blame for deaths, whatever was organized about the crime underworld is now in disarray (which could lead to open warfare), and police corruption....as well as the policy on Batman.....falls squarely on the shoulders of Gordon now that he's police commissioner. Where would Catwoman fit in?

Well, that would most definitely take a lot more thought than just a simple post on here. I really haven't thought too deeply into how Catwoman could fit in well other than when dealing with her romance with Batman.

[Laderlappen]

Maybe she likes cats and she likes Batman. Put those 2 together and thats it.

[KalMart]

Well, that would most definitely take a lot more thought than just a simple post on here. I really haven't thought too deeply into how Catwoman could fit in well other than when dealing with her romance with Batman.

Yeah....and really, once they figure that out, it could really affect who the best choice for an actress would be...moreso than who look the best in the suit, etc. That's also why I asked way back if this is the socialite Selina, or the former hooker from the ghettos like in Year One. I could actually lean towards the latter, but it might make things a bit too harsh, whereas the former has that whole glamour element associated with it.

Maybe she likes cats and she likes Batman. Put those 2 together and thats it.
Or maybe Batman just likes Bats and likes capes. :O Just kidding....if the Nolans go with Catwoman, I they could come up with something clever and efficient, whilst also having a deeper significance....of people are open to it.

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah, seriously... She's the opposite of a Batman imitator, who still likes what Batman's doing. Not just making a name for himself through his deeds, but also through a physical image. I'd like something more intricate than this, but it may just come down to it alone.

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah....and really, once they figure that out, it could really affect who the best choice for an actress would be...moreso than who look the best in the suit, etc. That's also why I asked way back if this is the socialite Selina, or the former hooker from the ghettos like in Year One. I could actually lean towards the latter, but it might make things a bit too harsh, whereas the former has that whole glamour element associated with it.

*cough*Eva Green*cough*

[KalMart]

*cough*Eva Green*cough*

For the glamourous/socialite version, I could see that....but does she seem physical/athletic enough?

[Laderlappen]

Or maybe Batman just likes Bats and likes capes. :O Just kidding....if the Nolans go with Catwoman, I they could come up with something clever and efficient, whilst also having a deeper significance....of people are open to it.If you think so. I dont know if its something that really needs to be focused on. Sometimes the easiest and most logical explanation is the best one.

[Cunning Stunts]

For the glamourous/socialite version, I could see that....but does she seem physical/athletic enough?

Doesn't need to be. That's what stunt doubles are for. Even Bale doesn't do all of his stunts/fight scenes. I'm not really sure where this misconception on this board arose that each actor does every single stunt and fight sequence. Hell, I don't think Matthew Goode threw a single punch in the Watchmen fight.

That said, I am pretty sure she did most of her own stuff in Golden Compass (which I haven't seen, but I do know it included wire-work for flying, and I'm presuming a little fighting). As far as I know, that's the most physical role she's had.

[Crook]

Or maybe Batman just likes Bats and likes capes. :O Just kidding....if the Nolans go with Catwoman, I they could come up with something clever and efficient, whilst also having a deeper significance....of people are open to it.
Are you not aware of the symbolism cats represent? A simple google search yields you this:

Cats are known for their independence. They are often known as a symbol (http://symbolism.wikia.com/wiki/Symbol) of meditation, mystery, and wisdom, such as in Good Fortune. Lastly, cats symbolize love. There is a myth that says black cats symbolize bad luck, and are the favorite pets of the witches.

In ancient Egyptian religion cat's were considered a symbol of royalty. They were even the model for many Egyptian gods. They also kept cats around as a means of spiritual protection. In Puritan religion cats symbolized dark and demonic forces and were associated with the devil. Cats are often compared to femininity and womanhood. They are associated with intuition as well. Cats are also known to have the ability to transmute human discomfort or malevolent spiritual energies into a more benign force. As an example: If you pay attention, if you're feeling any great stress in your life you'll notice that your cats (if you have any) will start spending more time with you to help you relieve the discomfort. Likewise, if you notice your cats staring at a wall or tracking something in the room when there obviously isn't anything there, they are probably seeing a spiritual force.


Nine lives

According to a myth in many cultures, cats have nine (or sometimes seven) lives. The myth is attributed to the natural suppleness and swiftness cats exhibit to escape life-threatening situations.[94] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#cite_note-myth-93) Also lending credence to this myth is that falling cats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_righting_reflex) often land on their feet because of an inbuilt automatic twisting reaction and are able to twist their bodies around to land feet first, though they can still be injured or killed by a high fall.[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#cite_note-94)


Cat represents guardianship, sensuality and detachment. Cat bestows the talent to quietly observe situations without bias before making decisions, knowing all have a right to understand and judge important events for them when the time is right.
She is the merging of the spiritual and physical; the psychic and sensual.
Cat is symbolic of independence, reincarnation, balance, psychicism, magick and mystery. She represents wisdom. One tribe called owls cats with wings. Self-assured, she’s a strong protector, especially in confrontational situations. The zenith of her power is the night and she’s been called a child of the Moon.


Anyone remotely familiar with Selina can immediately see the similarities here. Not to mention that her occupation is a CAT burglar, the imagery she evokes is already a pun and mocking of that title. This isn't some empty nor random costume choice.

When we said "because she identifies with cats", it's not the same thing as "she likes the color, sky blue, because it's pretty".

[KalMart]

Doesn't need to be. That's what stunt doubles are for. Even Bale doesn't do all of his stunts/fight scenes. I'm not really sure where this misconception on this board arose that each actor does every single stunt and fight sequence. Hell, I don't think Matthew Goode threw a single punch in the Watchmen fight.

That said, I am pretty sure she did most of her own stuff in Golden Compass (which I haven't seen, but I do know it included wire-work for flying, and I'm presuming a little fighting). As far as I know, that's the most physical role she's had.
I don't mean her actually doing the flips and flying kicks stuff (which I wouldn't want to see anyway), but does she look like someone athletic and robust enough to do that? For example...nto to bring in the whole black/white thing again....but Rosario Dawson strikes me as being both capable of glamour and physicality...without even knowing if she does all her own stunts or not. Someone like, say, Natalie Portman seems more fragile/delicate. I also don't see someone like Kate Winslet being the action-type, if you will.

Obviously, we don't just want some WWF-chick T&A model or what have you...just that it's tough to get the combination. It's not all about body-type either, but it does come into play. I don't think I'd want someone petitte, but also not too voluptuous...like Johanssen, for example. It's a tough call.

[Cunning Stunts]

Hmmm... I guess that's up for everyone else's personal opinions... I'd say so, she's got an amazing body. Not necessarily as toned and fit as someone like Rosario Dawson, but I'll let you decide for yourself:

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/evagreen3.jpg
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/evagreenofficial1x.jpg
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/eva-green-nude.jpg

If you want a more "in-depth" look (pardon the pun :p) at her body, look up her scenes from The Dreamers, in which she's nude throughout. That movie's five years old, and she's evidently toned up a bit since then, but her build still screams Catwoman to me- very curvy and busty, regardless of muscle.

[KalMart]

Are you not aware of the symbolism cats represent? A simple google search yields you this:
Sure, but what does it represent to her, and what about her personality/history does that symbolism reflect? Why that symbolism and not, say, a dove or snake?

Anyone remotely familiar with Selina can immediately see the similarities here. Not to mention that her occupation is a CAT burglar, the imagery she evokes is already a pun and mocking of that title. This isn't some empty nor random costume choice.
So do you think that all moviegoers will have that familiarity going in without presenting it oncreen aside from the end product? We didn't get Joker's history, how he became who he is...but from that narrative..what he wanted and did.... we got to see why he's more than just a criminal in makeup...and you didn't have to be familiar with him to get that from the movie. All I'm asking is if Catwoman can do that too in her own right, whether she's a straight villain or not.

But as I also pointed out, it might be a tougher task in these movies, as her being so self-centered and lone/independent doesn't quite lend itself to the kind of representary major characterizations we've had thus far...having bigger things that they want, etc. So again, is it okay with folks if the Nolans create/add that with this character, perhaps giving the character a bit bigger motivations than just her own enjoyment? I'm all for it, but maybe others feel 'that's not Catwoman'.

When we said "because she identifies with cats", it's not the same thing as "she likes the color, sky blue, because it's pretty".

I assumed it wasn't, but you wouldn't explain how it was more than that when I asked....aside from her 'liking it' or what have you. Now at least we're getting into it more....and you at least seem to agree that it's not simple or face-value. I'm saying that the storyline of the film, and the writers, has to provide that somehow. At least to some extent as if no-one had ever heard of Catwoman, without getting into too much history, etc.

[KalMart]

Hmmm... I guess that's up for everyone else's personal opinions... I'd say so, she's got an amazing body. Not necessarily as toned and fit as someone like Rosario Dawson, but I'll let you decide for yourself:

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/evagreen3.jpg
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/evagreenofficial1x.jpg
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc343/KillingJoke9/eva-green-nude.jpg

If you want a more "in-depth" look (pardon the pun :p) at her body, look up her scenes from The Dreamers, in which she's nude throughout. That movie's five years old, and she's evidently toned up a bit since then, but her build still screams Catwoman to me- very curvy and busty, regardless of muscle.
I've already seen her in a few films, and for me, she's more glamour...and quite alluring...but a little shy on the athleticism part. I hate to put it this way, as it's unintentionally sexist...but...does she 'run like a girl'? I know...she might not have to do the actual running, but y'know what I mean. People can exhibit their athleticism in pretty simple/normal movements, as well. Their walk/gate... I assume she should move and walk differently in the cat-suit than she would in an evening gown...and that's not just because of the shoes. :O

[Cunning Stunts]

You could argue that, but you could also argue that Malin Akerman couldn't have thrown a spin-kick to save her life before Watchmen. By shooting time, she became arguably the best looking female combatant I've ever seen on film (and I'm not talking about her beauty). This kind of stuff can be trained, and Nolan's made it apparent he wants to make sure that the proper training is taken to ensure this kind of grace needed for the films and their characters.

[KalMart]

You could argue that, but you could also argue that Malin Akerman couldn't have thrown a spin-kick to save her life before Watchmen. By shooting time, she became arguably the best looking female combatant I've ever seen on film (and I'm not talking about her beauty). This kind of stuff can be trained, and Nolan's made it apparent he wants to make sure that the proper training is taken to ensure this kind of grace needed for the films and their characters.
Yeah, maybe someone like Green is more athletic than what her roles thus far have allowed her to be. However, I did see Akerman's talents as a physical comedienne in that Stiller movie long before Watchmen, and I do feel that is connected/lends itself to athleticism onscreen....and have also seen that trend with the actors/actresses I've worked with. Some take to training better than others depending on their natural abilities. But again, in terms of the glamourous socialite, Green has got that vibe. What if she was from the ghettos or shadier/run-down parts of town....who cold be a good choice for that?

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah, maybe someone like Green is more athletic than what her roles thus far have allowed her to be. However, I did see Akerman's talents as a physical comedienne in that Stiller movie long before Watchmen, and I do feel that is connected/lends itself to
athleticism onscreen. Some take to training better than others depending on their natural abilities. But again, in terms of the glamourous socialite, Green has got that vibe. What if she was from the ghettos or shadier/run-down parts of town....who cold be a good choice for that?

I agree, definitely. Malin's most definitely got those physical gifts, while Eva has yet to show any true sign as to whether or not she does.

As far as a shadier kind of character... I don't know, I'd have to go with your earlier suggestion and give it to Rosario Dawson- not because she's part black, so nobody jump on me about that. I'd have to hand that one to her because of her immaculate portrayal of Gail in Sin City. That role all but screams a shady, more exaggerated and violent version of Catwoman in its own right, and Rosario played it to perfection.

[flickchick85]

Why is she resembling anything...and why a cat? :woot: Heh...

I like the idea of her wanting to steal from the mob and humiliate them....perhaps for things they did to her and her community in the past... and being inspired by Batman's theatrics. But also, part of being 'cat-like' might be her philosophy of only looking out for 'number one'...instead of higher cause since people will only turn on you....like they did with Batman. I'm just wondering if there can be more to it than just them fighting/flirting like that, though. Is she a key or obstacle in Batman redeeming his place with the people of Gotham, and clearing his name with the police? Will the Gotham citizens be put to another morality test like in TDK...with dire consequences either way...and what would Catwoman have to do with it, etc?

Maybe a bigger villain wants to use her to lure Batman out so that he can be eliminated once and for all.
Well, I've taken a crack at a story for #3 in the past, but it was long and involved and I'm just feeling too lazy rehash it at the moment. But here's my take on some of your questions and Catwoman's backstory for this series:

I always liked the idea of Selina starting off on the streets of Gotham as a kid (prostitution? Not explicitly said, but a possibility, sure). To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughCotillardcough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc. She becomes a quite successful thief there, accumulating substantial wealth. She uses her overseas black market connections to set up multiple dummy businesses and grow herself a "corporation," so that money from everything she steals and sells gets evenly distributed through those various businesses, and the original source of the money becomes virtually untraceable. Once she's exhausted most of her big fish in France and accumulated enough wealth, she returns to Gotham as a French socialite (where she had learned the language and perfected a fake accent aka Cotillard's natural accent) with philanthropic aims for the poor of Gotham, and dedicates her time to various charity events, etc. Of course, she also turns her thieving sights to the rich and corrupt (mob associated) socialites of Gotham, intent to hit them in their wallets where it hurts, and take them down in her own way. This is BACKSTORY, not what we would be SHOWN in the film, just alluded to in various scenes.

As she builds her reputation as the beloved socialite queen of the East End, her East End rival is Roman Sionis, who's pretty much a rich terror to the community with his heavy mob ties and murderous ways as Black Mask. So her ultimate goal over the course of the movie will be to take him down. In the business side of things Roman Sionis will of course be waging his own war against Wayne Enterprises (including kidnapping his employees), is defeated and "ruined" by Batman over the course of the film and eventually teams up with the other main villain of the film (whoever that is, but his/her crusade throughout the story will be against Batman on behalf of the citizens of Gotham) to take Batman down. And THAT'S where the stories cross paths, and Catwoman, Black Mask, Villain #2, and Batman are all involved in the climactic showdown.

But that's how Catwoman could be involved in the plot, but up 'till that point, she'd mainly be there for character development for Bruce. Thematically, it would be about Batman being more of an outsider than ever, and subsequently being tempted to cross his ethical lines (eg, The Law) by Catwoman and embrace the darker side of his mission ("screw the police, do what's necessary, and savor the thrill"). She would have very convincing arguments, with the corruption-riddled police force constantly trying to kill him at this point, while getting no love from the citizens of Gotham for maintaining his "code." In other words, she's the devil on his shoulder who's really not "evil" at all, and therefore, that much more convincing. It's a philosophical war between the two of them. And of course, you'd have the love story between Selina and Bruce who are clearly two kindred spirits. In my hypothetical story, Selina would initially have no interest in the playboy billionaire, but finds out Bruce is Batman fairly early on (through some telling scar from one of their fights or something) and spends the rest of the movie forcing Bruce to drop the playboy facade and be himself around her, which he'd gradually embrace.

So she'd be fully intwined in the story and relatively close to all the events in the A-plot the whole time, but she wouldn't fully collide with them 'till the final act. And I like to think in that final act she'd be sacrificing her Big Ultimate Score to save Batman/Bruce from the plot that Black Mask/Villain #2 would have set up for him. And of course, Bruce being Bruce, he would find out who she was and refuse to let her go, insisting that if she really felt anything for him, she would understand why he needs her to pay for her crimes. And then he could save her charities from ruin when she goes to prison and launch his new public direction as a philanthropist.

*phew* And that was the short version, lol.

[Cunning Stunts]

To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughGreencough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc.

Fixed. Still accurate, too. :up:

Funny how that worked out. ;)

[KalMart]

Well, I've taken a crack at a story for #3 in the past, but it was long and involved and I'm just feeling too lazy rehash it at the moment. But here's my take on some of your questions and Catwoman's backstory for this series:

I always liked the idea of Selina starting off on the streets of Gotham as a kid (prostitution? Not explicitly said, but a possibility, sure). To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughCotillardcough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc. She becomes a quite successful thief there, accumulating substantial wealth. She uses her overseas black market connections to set up multiple dummy businesses and grow herself a "corporation," so that money from everything she steals and sells gets evenly distributed through those various businesses, and the original source of the money becomes virtually untraceable. Once she's exhausted most of her big fish in France and accumulated enough wealth, she returns to Gotham as a French socialite (where she had learned the language and perfected a fake accent aka Cotillard's natural accent) with philanthropic aims for the poor of Gotham, and dedicates her time to various charity events, etc. Of course, she also turns her thieving sights to the rich and corrupt (mob associated) socialites of Gotham, intent to hit them in their wallets where it hurts, and take them down in her own way. This is BACKSTORY, not what we would be SHOWN in the film, just alluded to in various scenes.

As she builds her reputation as the beloved socialite queen of the East End, her East End rival is Roman Sionis, who's pretty much a rich terror to the community with his heavy mob ties and murderous ways as Black Mask. So her ultimate goal over the course of the movie will be to take him down. In the business side of things Roman Sionis will of course be waging his own war against Wayne Enterprises (including kidnapping his employees), is defeated and "ruined" by Batman over the course of the film and eventually teams up with the other main villain of the film (whoever that is, but his/her crusade throughout the story will be against Batman on behalf of the citizens of Gotham) to take Batman down. And THAT'S where the stories cross paths, and Catwoman, Black Mask, Villain #2, and Batman are all involved in the climactic showdown.

But that's how Catwoman could be involved in the plot, but up 'till that point, she'd mainly be there for character development for Bruce. Thematically, it would be about Batman being more of an outsider than ever, and subsequently being tempted to cross his ethical lines (eg, The Law) by Catwoman and embrace the darker side of his mission ("screw the police, do what's necessary, and savor the thrill"). She would have very convincing arguments, with the corruption-riddled police force constantly trying to kill him at this point, while getting no love from the citizens of Gotham for maintaining his "code." In other words, she's the devil on his shoulder who's really not "evil" at all, and therefore, that much more convincing. It's a philosophical war between the two of them. And of course, you'd have the love story between Selina and Bruce who are clearly two kindred spirits. In my hypothetical story, Selina would initially have no interest in the playboy billionaire, but finds out Bruce is Batman fairly early on (through some telling scar from one of their fights or something) and spends the rest of the movie forcing Bruce to drop the playboy facade and be himself around her, which he'd gradually embrace.

So she'd be fully intwined in the story and relatively close to all the events in the A-plot the whole time, but she wouldn't fully collide with them 'till the final act. And I like to think in that final act she'd be sacrificing her Big Ultimate Score to save Batman/Bruce from the plot that Black Mask/Villain #2 would have set up for him. And of course, Bruce being Bruce, he would find out who she was and refuse to let her go, insisting that if she really felt anything for him, she would understand why he needs her to pay for her crimes. And then he could save her charities from ruin when she goes to prison and launch his new public direction as a philanthropist.

*phew* And that was the short version, lol.

Some good stuff there. Yeah, I don't think the prostitution thing should be there so definitely......implied as part of the world, perhaps....if they'd go with that angle.

[flickchick85]

Fixed. Still accurate, too.

Funny how that worked out.

Except one thing: Eva Green doesn't speak English with a French accent. Not that it matters, lol. But she learned in a British school, and it shows. But yes, she could certainly work, too. :up:

Though I find Cotillard to be easily the stronger actress.

[Cunning Stunts]

I've only heard minor pieces of dialogue in English from Cotillard (from the Public Enemies trailer), I don't remember how it sounds though. Either way, there are coaches for accents.

[KalMart]

Or they could dub it like they did for Tyler in LOTR. :oldrazz:

[Cunning Stunts]

True. I just re-watched Marion's part in the Public Enemies trailer, and from the little speaking she has in those clips, I'm not convinced about her American accent. I heard some awkward phonetics in there.

[KalMart]

A little accent could be okay.

[Cunning Stunts]

I'm not ultimately bothered by it, but everyone around here rides Marion's ass like she's omnipotent on the world of film or something. I like her and think she's a great actress, but there are others who are just as good, if not better for this role.

[Laderlappen]

The character she plays in Public Enemies is half-french.

[Cunning Stunts]

Good little tidbit to know. I feel stupid now. :p

[flickchick85]

True. I just re-watched Marion's part in the Public Enemies trailer, and from the little speaking she has in those clips, I'm not convinced about her American accent. I heard some awkward phonetics in there.
I'm not gonna argue there. As I recall, she only got a few weeks notice on the accent in Public Enemies, so she had to work on her accent throughout the film. I do know that all the dialogue in the trailer except for the last line are all from one scene, and it was one of the very first scenes they shot. So I think we'll find her accent is stronger in some parts of the movie than others, depending on when it was shot/how long she had worked on it. I'm sure Michael Mann wasn't worried about it since her character in the film is half-French anyway. It was also implied in the script that you could tell, but her character was ashamed of her heritage (she grew up on a Native American reservation, and apparently there was a whole group of French/Native Americans who were kind of looked down upon), so she was attempting to hide it (and Dillinger would tell her not to). I think the accent in her last line in the trailer was pretty good though. Anyway, with Catwoman, if they went that route, she could use her natural accent as Selina, and then learn Catwoman's lines (which would no doubt be far fewer) with an American accent.

And fyi, here's what her natural French accent sounded like as of last year, pre-Oscars and Public Enemies:
7TbmlIwEZyk

ETA: Laderlappen beat me to it, but don't feel stupid, Cunning! I didn't know 'till I read the screenplay.:woot:

[KalMart]

The character she plays in Public Enemies is half-french.

Yeah, but she sounds 1/3rd at best.


heh-heh....:grin:

[Cunning Stunts]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff :p).

[KalMart]

I'm not gonna argue there. As I recall, she only got a few weeks notice on the accent in Public Enemies, so she had to work on her accent throughout the film. I do know that all the dialogue in the trailer except for the last line are all from one scene, and it was one of the very first scenes they shot. So I think we'll find her accent is stronger in some parts of the movie than others, depending on when it was shot/how long she had worked on it. I'm sure Michael Mann wasn't worried about it since her character in the film is half-French anyway. It was also implied in the script that you could tell, but her character was ashamed of her heritage (she grew up on a Native American reservation, and apparently there was a whole group of French/Native Americans who were kind of looked down upon), so she was attempting to hide it (and Dillinger would tell her not to). I think the accent in her last line in the trailer was pretty good though. Anyway, with Catwoman, if they went that route, she could use her natural accent as Selina, and then learn Catwoman's lines (which would no doubt be far fewer) with an American accent.

And fyi, here's what her natural French accent sounded like as of last year, pre-Oscars and Public Enemies:
7TbmlIwEZyk
I like her....sign her up. :up:

[flickchick85]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff :p).
Yeah, I get what you mean, but I think the simple response is, post-Oscar, people have been getting familiar with her work. I mean, I hadn't heard of her until I saw La Vie En Rose, but her performance in that was so amazing that it made me want to seek out her prior work (some of which also got her acclaim/awards in France). And her prior performances were not only great, but hugely diverse, which is what sets her apart from most of the other good actresses out there, like Eva Green, for me. And I think it was when I was watching A Very Long Engagement (in which she plays a vengeful serial-killing prostitute) when it just hit me all of a sudden that she would be a fantastic Catwoman. Add to that the buzz she's building with her post-Oscar choices (Public Enemies, Nine, Inception, The Rivals - all films I'd by psyched for with or without her involvement), and it just seems like her star is about to sky rocket, and the next great choice for her to make would be a big sophisticated blockbuster like this one. So I think that might be where its coming from. :cwink:

[Laderlappen]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff :p).She is an incredible actress. In La Vie En Rose(her oscar winning role) she is in the same league as Meryl Streep, Ingrid Bergman, Bette Davis, and all the great legends. She is not famous for obvious reasons. but I find it strange that only one of your acting friends is familiar with her. Except for her talent, she is also incredibly charming, likeable, and attractive woman.

[rayc1971]

kate beckensdale is the best choice! she has the looks just remember her in tight black leather from underworld!she can act and she can fight!

[RachelDawes]

Sure, but what does it represent to her, and what about her personality/history does that symbolism reflect? Why that symbolism and not, say, a dove or snake?


So do you think that all moviegoers will have that familiarity going in without presenting it oncreen aside from the end product? We didn't get Joker's history, how he became who he is...but from that narrative..what he wanted and did.... we got to see why he's more than just a criminal in makeup...and you didn't have to be familiar with him to get that from the movie. All I'm asking is if Catwoman can do that too in her own right, whether she's a straight villain or not.

I don't think Catwoman's going to get any more backstory than any of the other villains we've seen. Why does Ra's al-Ghul call himself that? He mentioned something about his wife being killed I think but is there any other reason he became a terrorist?

Why is Scarecrow cool with blowing up Gotham? For money I suppose but is there any other reason? How did he settle on wearing a burlap sack during his patient sessions? I don't think BB even explained why he wore one.

We learned Joker likes clown makeup but what's the significance of a clown for him? Why not put on dragon makeup? That could've been equally scary.

What was the deal with Harvey's coin too? We never learned where it came from.

I just don't see why we're supposed to learn more about Selina than we have any other villain (though Selina's not really a villain) so far. She's a cat burglar, she likes cats, she's so famous the audience isn't going to be confused by her dressing up...I don't see why we really need a reason. We might get a throwaway line, but I doubt it'll be more substantial than that.

[KalMart]

Just some quick and dirty interpretations taken from the movie itself.

I don't think Catwoman's going to get any more backstory than any of the other villains we've seen. Why does Ra's al-Ghul call himself that? He mentioned something about his wife being killed I think but is there any other reason he became a terrorist?
Like I said, it's not so much backstory or origins, but their M.O. and raison d'etre, so to speak. The league of shadows don't punish evildoers because they just feel like it or enjoy it. They believe they are cleansing society, and as we find out, they've been a major part of world history.

Why is Scarecrow cool with blowing up Gotham? For money I suppose but is there any other reason? How did he settle on wearing a burlap sack during his patient sessions? I don't think BB even explained why he wore one.
Well...first of all it's a gas mask that protects him from inhaling his own poison or what have you. Secondly, he takes sadistic pleasure in scaring the crap out of his 'patients'....with what he later indirectly describes as a Jungian archetypal response or whatever he called it, something that appeals to his own background in psychology, which he now uses against people. Kind of a fringe benefit of testing the chemical-work he's being paid for while satisfying his own twisted fascinations.

But Scarecrow is a also a side-player, still an important piece, but a cog in the larger machine. I would think that those who want Catwoman would want her to play a more major role than Scarecrow did in BB. As a simple cat burglar who's just out to steal for enjoyment, and nothing more, she's about as impactful as scarecrow in TDK. A four-minute scene, locked up, and done. :O

We learned Joker likes clown makeup but what's the significance of a clown for him? Why not put on dragon makeup? That could've been equally scary.
Joker's appearance is commentary in being both grotesque and absurd/ironic. This is a character who's out to show that no-one's truly moral or innocent. Regardless of whatever proper/civil facade someone puts on, they're just as capable of horrible things and turning on eachother as the 'scurge of society' is, if driven to it....and he very nearly proves it. Joker's look is what he believes is in everyone, and ironically, he has to wear it on the outside. Absurdly humorous...hence the clown to go along with his own disfigurement....or perhaps also conected to people laughing at his disfigurement in days past. As he said..."I'm not a monster....." No...he is distinctly human, as he probably sees it. And clowns more directly address human conditions than dragons do. :O

What was the deal with Harvey's coin too? We never learned where it came from.
Father's 'lucky coin', wasn't it? I forgot if they said it in the movie.

But what appeared to be be luck in his favor (at least from those who didn't know the coin was double-headed) was really rigged. Maybe it was his own inside joke, but when his world is turned upside down, he realizes that you can't "make your own luck", and everything he worked for and believed in was in vain. The coin is still double-headed, but one side is now scarred and mutilated...just like he is, as is his soul. So then he flips the coin when truly holding a person's life in balance. Something the former idealistic, in-control Harvey Dent would never really do...but now things are different. When Joker tells him that 'chaos is fair', it rings true given how things have turned out. So now there's purpose to him flipping the coin, as that pure chance represents the only thing that IS fair...albeit in a sinister way.

I just don't see why we're supposed to learn more about Selina than we have any other villain (though Selina's not really a villain) so far. She's a cat burglar, she likes cats, she's so famous the audience isn't going to be confused by her dressing up...I don't see why we really need a reason. We might get a throwaway line, but I doubt it'll be more substantial than that.
We don't have to learn more, but it'd be nice to learn as much, no? And it'd be nice if she could be an integral part of the overall unfolding events like the other characters were, too...who didn't rely just on 'fame' to be part of those stories. That's why I think she needs more than just self-interest and 'fun', etc., if she's going to be a major part of the next story. She doesn't have to be a missionary, but just being a love interest or a cat-burglar who happens to dress up as a cat isn't enough. In the last two Batman stories, you get a sense that history hangs in the balance...that what we were seeing wasn't just some slice-of-life. That's why these characters have to be so pivotal in that particular story, and I don't think that such a simplistic manifesto for Catwoman puts her in that category in these films. I think Nolan & Crew would have to expand her character more...her purpose et al...to meet that level.

It's not that I don't like the concept of her character, it's that her role in things has to be bigger. There's a lot of heavy things that TDK left on the table to be addressed in the next story...the question is where does she fit into that? And to address that, I feel they'll have to increase the magnitude of her character from just doing what she does for her own fun. That's why I asked about the ears, because it didn't seem that anyone was providing anything more intriguing behind them than 'because'. The character/story usage in the other two movies were more profound, so the details like the coin, the clown visage, etc open up a lot more avenues, whereas with "She's a cat burglar, she likes cats, she's so famous the audience isn't going to be confused by her dressing up."...while it may be true to the comic portrayal...isn't that interesting or compelling for a Batman story like what the Nolan films have built so far. I'd like the Nolans to push it further if they're going to use Catwoman.

[Ethermatic]

Impressive images, elgato. I'm still not a fan of the mask, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good, hard work.

[MaskedManJRK]

... That's why I asked about the ears, because it didn't seem that anyone was providing anything more intriguing behind them than 'because'.

If you're asking for a "realistic" reason for Catwoman to have a mask with ears, you could say that she has a radio/transiever/communication device wired in, ala Batman.

Plus, if you go with the Year One version of Selina, she was inspired by Batman to get out of the bottomless gutter she was in, and used a costume like his to get it. She's really both the good and the bad that Batman ispires in Gotham--she was inspired by him to not accept the evil of the world and took out her pimp, while also inspired to commit crimes.

[KalMart]

If you're asking for a "realistic" reason for Catwoman to have a mask with ears, you could say that she has a radio/transiever/communication device wired in, ala Batman.
I don't think it has to be that functional. It's more about the whole cat motif overall, and why she does what she does, and how. I'm fine with her having ears because she wants to look like a cat, I just want her being a cat and cat-burglar to propel the storyline as well as other main characters have in the last two Batman movies....whether she's a villain, antihero, radical, or what have you.

Plus, if you go with the Year One version of Selina, she was inspired by Batman to get out of the bottomless gutter she was in, and used a costume like his to get it. She's really both the good and the bad that Batman ispires in Gotham--she was inspired by him to not accept the evil of the world and took out her pimp, while also inspired to commit crimes.
Yeah, I referred to the Year One portrayal a ways back....which I liked for that story. But I could also see people wanting her to be the more glamourous socialite and such.

[MaskedManJRK]

Yeah, I referred to the Year One portrayal a ways back....which I liked for that story. But I could also see people wanting her to be the more glamourous socialite and such.

Maybe she steals enough to buy herself a new identity? No reason why we can't have our cake and eat it too.

[KalMart]

Maybe she steals enough to buy herself a new identity? No reason why we can't have our cake and eat it too.

They might have to backtrack in time for that, though...which could be kinda' cool, too. Start with an incident early in Batman's career that inspired Selina, then forward to present-day with her more affluent. Although realistically-speaking, of she's that visible as someone who hobnobs with the more well-heeled types, someone's going to wonder where she gets her money. What would she actually do for a living as Selina Kyle? Museum curator or something? Maybe she inherited some wealth along the way?

[Crook]

Hrm, this thread moves fast and has sparked quite a bit of words. KalMart, has your questions on Catwoman been adequately answered already, or shall I read back and conjure up a long-winded response? :o

[jaymes_e06]

I vote for Rachel Weisz! I really can't see anyone but her or Angelina doing the character justice.

[KalMart]

Hrm, this thread moves fast and has sparked quite a bit of words. KalMart, has your questions on Catwoman been adequately answered already, or shall I read back and conjure up a long-winded response? :o
Nah, your short little attempt at sarcasm above is more than representative enough, thanks. :up: Wouldn't want you to sprain something. ;)

[KalMart]

I vote for Rachel Weisz! I really can't see anyone but her or Angelina doing the character justice.

I could see Jolie in terms of look/body type, but I like Weisz better as an actress.

[jaymes_e06]

^Agreed,:up:

[[A]]

I could see Jolie in terms of look/body type, but I like Weisz better as an actress.woah, that's quite a statement. prepare to be banned :hehe:

[KalMart]

;16971540']woah, that's quite a statement. prepare to be banned :hehe:

Why...do a lot of folks not like Weisz or something? :O

[jaymes_e06]

;16971540']woah, that's quite a statement. prepare to be banned :hehe:
I mean it's true.:oldrazz:

[Laderlappen]

kate beckensdale is the best choice! she has the looks just remember her in tight black leather from underworld!she can act and she can fight!Many women looks good in leather. Its not a skill exactly. Its pretty stupid to cast somebody partly because they wore leather in a movie.

[Two-Face]

kate beckensdale is the best choice! she has the looks just remember her in tight black leather from underworld!she can act and she can fight!

She can't act.

[batboy99]

What? I thought you like Kate?!


Anyways, its not that she cant act, shes just not that great. But she isnt terrible.

[Blackman]

She was good in Nothing BUt the Truth
BUt she used to be my top choice, now I'm not so sure. She def. has the look but she doesnt seem like she would fit with the rest of the Nolan cast who were for the msot part in BB unknown/cult actors

[Cunning Stunts]

Why...do a lot of folks not like Weisz or something? :O

No, just that a lot of the users here think Angelina Jolie is the best thing ever.

[Blackman]

^^^No its just that Weisz isnt that good looking

and this is coming from a person who doesnt even like Jolie

[Cunning Stunts]

I think Weisz is gorgeous. And a better actress.

[Laderlappen]

Rachel Weisz is one of the most beautiful women in Hollywood! Maybe prettier than Marion.

[Cunning Stunts]

Whoa, I wouldn't go that far. But to each his own. In my eyes, Marion has a little bit of an edge.

[elgato]

I want Selina to look like this:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii463/spidersar/Cine/public_enemies_ver3.jpg

with this haircut

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll318/margochanning_2008/imdb.jpg

[RachelDawes]

Father's 'lucky coin', wasn't it? I forgot if they said it in the movie.

But what appeared to be be luck in his favor (at least from those who didn't know the coin was double-headed) was really rigged. Maybe it was his own inside joke, but when his world is turned upside down, he realizes that you can't "make your own luck", and everything he worked for and believed in was in vain. The coin is still double-headed, but one side is now scarred and mutilated...just like he is, as is his soul. So then he flips the coin when truly holding a person's life in balance. Something the former idealistic, in-control Harvey Dent would never really do...but now things are different. When Joker tells him that 'chaos is fair', it rings true given how things have turned out. So now there's purpose to him flipping the coin, as that pure chance represents the only thing that IS fair...albeit in a sinister way.

I don't think the coin's origin is ever explained, and that's my point. We don't know where Harvey got that coin or why he flips it before he becomes Two-Face. As a joke, I suppose. Catwoman's ears are of less consequence than the coin so I don't see why we need much of an explanation for them. All we'll get probably is some line about her being inspired by Batman, or they're practical because they've got a radio in them, or she thinks they're fun, or cats are her guiding spirit, whatever.

I want Selina to look like this:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii463/spidersar/Cine/public_enemies_ver3.jpg

She's a bit bug-eyed in that poster.

[Crook]

For whatever reason, they decided to showcase Marion's worst trait. :huh:

[flickchick85]

For whatever reason, they decided to showcase Marion's worst trait.
I don't think her eyes are her worst trait - on the contrary, they are the physical attribute that most scream "Selina!" to me...

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2636/mcpremiere.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/12/mcselinaeyes030.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6370/mccotillardphotofiroqiitw3.jpg

no?


...but they seriously look weird in that poster. Her and Depp's "character posters" for that film were both photoshopped into oblivion for some reason. I think in an attempt to hide the fact that they are transformed stills from the film rather than images taken for a poster. But yeah, creepy.

[flickchick85]

sorry, dp.

[Crook]

Her eyes look great there, yes. But if she has a "bad" stand-out trait, it's still her eyes. I've seen some shots where she seriously does look bug-eyed. For the most part it's not that noticeable, but it's there.

[Laderlappen]

She's got Bette Davis eyes.

[KalMart]

I don't think the coin's origin is ever explained, and that's my point.
And as I've pointed out several times....it's not about origins. It's about significance that goes beyond him just liking the coin et al, and how it ties into the greater scheme of the story.

We don't know where Harvey got that coin or why he flips it before he becomes Two-Face. As a joke, I suppose.
We might not have to know why, but it kinda' adds to the film that we actually do get to see and understand why, no?

Catwoman's ears are of less consequence than the coin so I don't see why we need much of an explanation for them.
Like I said, it's not just the ears. It's the whole profile of why she does what she does, and how it ties into the whole story. If that's worked out as compellingly as other characters have been so far, then there's a lot more interesting avenues that one can go when asking about the ears/costume/etc than 'her just liking it and wanting to look like a cat'. That's what makes Dent's coin more than just a coin, and Jokers makeup more than just clown makeup, and so on.

All we'll get probably is some line about her being inspired by Batman, or they're practical because they've got a radio in them, or she thinks they're fun, or cats are her guiding spirit, whatever.
I don't even think we'd need a spoken explanation if her character is set-up and represented as an integral part of the plot, as well as her inspired by/dressing up as a cat. It's just that it'll take some good writing to do that, and perhaps some reinterpretation beyond just her being a traditional Batman character and liking cats. Wouldn't you like Catwoman to be as important and pivotal of a character in the story as Dent or Joker was?

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't think the coin's origin is ever explained, and that's my point. We don't know where Harvey got that coin or why he flips it before he becomes Two-Face. As a joke, I suppose. Catwoman's ears are of less consequence than the coin so I don't see why we need much of an explanation for them. All we'll get probably is some line about her being inspired by Batman, or they're practical because they've got a radio in them, or she thinks they're fun, or cats are her guiding spirit, whatever.


Harvey get's his coin from his father, he mentions it. He says he makes his own luck, but really, both sides are heads.

[KalMart]

Harvey get's his coin from his father, he mentions it. He says he makes his own luck, but really, both sides are heads.

And later in the film, it ends up meaning something else for him, too. Earlier in the movie, the coin serves him....it's a confidence boost etc., even though he knows what the outcome is going to be. Later, it dictates his actions, and he yields to the idea of not knowing the outcome, or morally wanting one outcome over the other. The filmmakers didn't have to do that....but it certainly made it a better story that they did.

[jmc]

I want Selina to look like this:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii463/spidersar/Cine/public_enemies_ver3.jpg



I've never liked this poster, it's like they caught her off guard when they were taking it. Plus the photoshopping is ordinary.

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah, it really looks like it was made on SHH.

[KalMart]

Would Catwoman wear fur? :O

[StorminNorman]

I want Selina to look like this:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii463/spidersar/Cine/public_enemies_ver3.jpg

with this haircut

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll318/margochanning_2008/imdb.jpg

I would rather Selina Kyle be attractive. :meanie:

[Alex Logan]

I want Selina to look like this:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii463/spidersar/Cine/public_enemies_ver3.jpg

with this haircut

Not a bad idea, but no one dresses like that thses days.

Would Catwoman wear fur?

Doubtful.

I would rather Selina Kyle be attractive.

HA HA HA!

Agreed. I really don't think she's all that attractive.

[Travesty]

I would rather Selina Kyle be attractive. :meanie:
I think she looks pretty good. Who are you dating these days?

[KalMart]

I think she looks pretty good. Who are you dating these days?
She Hulk, maybe?

[Crook]

I don't think her eyes are her worst trait - on the contrary, they are the physical attribute that most scream "Selina!" to me...

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2636/mcpremiere.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6370/mccotillardphotofiroqiitw3.jpg

no?

It's her most stand-out feature, and one most susceptible to bad shots. In the same way that Jolie's lips for the most part look great on her, if you catch her in just the right instant, it doesn't do her any good. Same for Marion and the occasional "bug-eyed" effect. I don't see it too much on pics, more in motion. It's usually when she smiles or goes wide-eyed that it becomes readily apparent.

As for Marion not being attractive enough for Selina...complete bullcrap. I know it's subjective, but all the same I think we all have a general consensus in the aura Selina should emit from appearance alone. Admittedly, I wasn't fond of Marion's look at first. On film, especially, she hasn't really had too many roles which make her look sexy. Therefore she does tend to look average.

But I've seen more than enough photo shoots to know what Marion can look like, and it definitely fits with my ideals for the character. She may not look smokin' in every shoot, but how she looks in the film is the only instance that matters, is it not?

I can agree that I'd be greatly disappointed if Marion looks more like this:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9663/005dno.jpg

But if they do her up to look like these:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/885/002zcw.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6320/006kyp.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9171/003gqf.jpg


I can't see how anyone can complain. Her face is just gorgeous there. I'll put it this way, I was absolutely mortified when I found out Heath wasn't going to have the clown paint for one scene. I detested the idea that Joker would look like a normal man in his 'natural state'. But sure enough, Nolan brilliantly made Heath look like a damn intimidating mad-man in those very few seconds he was in the police garb. And this is with NO previous indication that Heath could remotely pull that look off.

Marion has the look for this role. All it needs is the right stylists to bring the "Selina" out.

[flickchick85]

It's her most stand-out feature, and one most susceptible to bad shots. In the same way that Jolie's lips for the most part look great on her, if you catch her in just the right instant, it doesn't do her any good. Same for Marion and the occasional "bug-eyed" effect. I don't see it too much on pics, more in motion. It's usually when she smiles or goes wide-eyed that it becomes readily apparent.
Ah, I get your meaning now. Oh well, we all have bad angles, even Angelina, as you said. I agree though, it depends on the role, but Cotillard can look stunning. And for the record, she has had her fair share of "hot chick" or love interest roles - she's not always the "I ugly myself up for the sake of my craft" chameleon actress. Granted, most of those were earlier in her career, but they're out there. I believe her sole purpose in A Good Year was to be Russell Crowe's "French goddess" love interest.

[RachelDawes]

Harvey get's his coin from his father, he mentions it. He says he makes his own luck, but really, both sides are heads.

Really? When did he say that?

I can't see how anyone can complain. Her face is just gorgeous there. I'll put it this way, I was absolutely mortified when I found out Heath wasn't going to have the clown paint for one scene. I detested the idea that Joker would look like a normal man in his 'natural state'. But sure enough, Nolan brilliantly made Heath look like a damn intimidating mad-man in those very few seconds he was in the police garb. And this is with NO previous indication that Heath could remotely pull that look off.

I thought the Joker looked scarier without his makeup than with it, to tell the truth. It was as though his skin didn't fit right. :hehe:

[Travesty]

Really? When did he say that?At 14:15 in the movie.

Harvey-"Heads I take it, tails he's all yours"
Rachel-"You want to flip a coin to see who leads?"
Harvey-"But it's my Father's lucky coin. As I recall, it got me my first date with you".

[KalMart]

You should know, Rachel......Dawes. :woot::woot:

[StorminNorman]

I think she looks pretty good. Who are you dating these days?

But see...that's the problem. Looking pretty good is not good enough for Catwoman.

[Alex Logan]

But see...that's the problem. Looking pretty good is not good enough for Catwoman.

Yep.

[Crook]

...

[Crook]

But see...that's the problem. Looking pretty good is not good enough for Catwoman.
Interesting. I was curious, so I dug up this little gem:

Natalie Portman is still my go to.

Shannyn Sossamon is my dark horse.
Please explain, Norm. :dry:

Specifically, when looking at this:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1030/24164024.jpg

How the 2 ladies on either of Marion's sides are any more qualified for Selina in the looks department. God knows Marion already whoops these two on the acting front. I'm dying to know how Natalie and Shannyn shine.

[Majik1387]

:lmao:

[KalMart]

Interesting. I was curious, so I dug up this little gem:


Please explain, Norm. :dry:

Specifically, when looking at this:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1030/24164024.jpg

How the 2 ladies on either of Marion's sides are any more qualified for Selina in the looks department. God knows Marion already whoops these two on the acting front. I'm dying to know how Natalie and Shannyn shine.

I dunno, but I wouldn't mind holding the auditions at my place for all three.

[flickchick85]

Oh, Crook. :applaud

And agreed on all counts of course. :up:

[jmc]

It's her most stand-out feature, and one most susceptible to bad shots. In the same way that Jolie's lips for the most part look great on her, if you catch her in just the right instant, it doesn't do her any good. Same for Marion and the occasional 'bug-eyed' effect. I don't see it too much on pics, more in motion. It's usually when she smiles or goes wide-eyed that it becomes readily apparent.



So true about Jolie, I've seen some shots were her lips look comically huge.

[batboy99]

Sossamon looks like shes on crack. But sometimes looks ok.

Portman, I love her, she is a terrific actress, but just too baby faced.

[Ace of Knaves]

Portman looks frickin HAWT there.

[bunk]

I still like Charlize for this.

[Marx]

Natalie Portman is still my go to.

Shannyn Sossamon is my dark horse.

Both would be excellent choices! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Majik1387]

Don't lie Marx.:o

[Anthel]

I nominate Rachel McAdams for all female roles.


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e117/iveybass/rachel_mcadams_front.jpg

[jaymes_e06]

I actually wouldn't mind Rachel. Hmm....

[batboy99]

I never noticed, but she looks like Darwyn Cooke's Selina.

[Marx]

Don't lie Marx.:o

I'm serious. I could see either in the role. I really could.

[Johnny Drama]

Portman yes, Sossamen...eh, she has a long way to in terms of acting. She looks the part.

[WeaponXProject]

1. Marion
2. Emily Blunt
3. Jolie
4. Naomi Watts
5. Theron

Is where I'm at right now but I am having trouble deciding. This is a difficulat pick but no where near Captain America's...

[Timstuff]

http://i39.tinypic.com/o50v2v.jpg

P.S. I did not invent this joke. It's a remake. ;)

[Marx]

Portman yes, Sossamen...eh, she has a long way to in terms of acting. She looks the part.

1. Marion
2. Emily Blunt
3. Jolie
4. Naomi Watts
5. Theron

Is where I'm at right now but I am having trouble deciding. This is a difficulat pick but no where near Captain America's...

There really are quite a few who could fill this role nicely. And more importantly, have the acting chops to pull it off!

[Two-Face]

http://i39.tinypic.com/o50v2v.jpg

P.S. I did not invent this joke. It's a remake. ;)


:lmao::lmao::applaud

[Two-Face]

I still like Charlize for this.


I support this as well, great actress. :up: :applaud:

[WeaponXProject]

There really are quite a few who could fill this role nicely. And more importantly, have the acting chops to pull it off!


Seems pretty tough to me. I have 5 listed and only like two of 'em.

Nobody seems to be too sure about their picks except for a few of us.
I'm sure alot of actresses can play the character I just want to know if Nolan is even considering her as a character in his next movie.

[regwec]

I love the idea of Emily Blunt at the moment, but that may because I am half in love with Emily Blunt at the moment.

[Figs]

I don't know, Emily Blunt is pretty hot but looking at a lot of her pics on Google she has a ****** smile.

Not saying Catwoman needs to have a great smile or that that's a defining feature on her but something about Blunt's smile which is really a half assed smirk kind of turns me off.

[TheBatman072]

Excuse me, I don't believe we've met. My name is Bruce Wayne. And you are...?
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/289/mediumbatman2020bruce20.jpg

Kyle. Selina Kyle.*
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9797/evagreenloveknot.jpg



*See what I did there?

[regwec]

I don't know, Emily Blunt is pretty hot but looking at a lot of her pics on Google she has a ****** smile.

Not saying Catwoman needs to have a great smile or that that's a defining feature on her but something about Blunt's smile which is really a half assed smirk kind of turns me off.

You shouldn't be so easily put off. Humanity will die out with that kind of attitude. ;)

[Cunning Stunts]

Excuse me, I don't believe we've met. My name is Bruce Wayne. And you are...?
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/289/mediumbatman2020bruce20.jpg

Kyle. Selina Kyle.*
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9797/evagreenloveknot.jpg



*See what I did there?

Yeah, and it wasn't funny.

Eva Green FTW, BTW.

[Majik1387]

No thanks.

[Johnny Drama]

I am inclined to agree with Majik.

[Cunning Stunts]

Eva Green would pwn the role. Mark my words.

[TheBatman072]

Yeah, and it wasn't funny.

Eva Green FTW, BTW.

No **** Sherlock. If I thought it was actually worth a laugh, I wouldn't have so blatantly pointed it out.

No thanks.

I'm starting to think that Majik won't be happy with anyone in this role unless it's MAJIK in this role.

[Blackman]

Eva Green would be good.

[jaymes_e06]

I've always thought Eva Green woul be a great Poison Ivy. I don't think she would be bad for Catwoman but I've always thought she would be a killer Poison Ivy I mean even her name seems to convey that she would be a great PI.

[jmc]

^ I tend to agree, Eva gives off more of a Poison Ivy feel, she just doesn't seem the right fit for Catwoman.

[Majik1387]

I'm starting to think that Majik won't be happy with anyone in this role unless it's MAJIK in this role.
:huh:

I've stated I liked Ryder, Weisz, and Blunt for the role. Not my fault the most recent suggestions aren't a good fit.

[Cunning Stunts]

I've always thought Eva Green woul be a great Poison Ivy. I don't think she would be bad for Catwoman but I've always thought she would be a killer Poison Ivy I mean even her name seems to convey that she would be a great PI.

The name isn't pronounced "Green" though. It's pronounced "Gray-Enn." ;) (Edit: Could be "Gree-Enn" too, I've heard both)

No **** Sherlock. If I thought it was actually worth a laugh, I wouldn't have so blatantly pointed it out.

Take some Ritalin, dude. I was ****ing around.

[jaymes_e06]

The name isn't pronounced "Green" though. It's pronounced "Gree-Enn." ;)

Really?:huh: That's.... weird.

[Cunning Stunts]

She wass born in France to a Swedish father. I've even heard that she says it could accurately be pronounced as "Graya" as well because of her father's heritage.

[Laderlappen]

Wow really? Im swedish and have been calling her green like the color all the time. Eva is a pretty common swedish name too.

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah, I always called her "Ee-vuh Green" (like the color), but apparently it's "Eh-vuh Grey-Enn". Quite exotic for what I thought was so simple.

[jmc]

Surely if it was pronounced 'Grey-Enn' it would have and accented 'é'.

[Cunning Stunts]

Surely if it was pronounced 'Grey-Enn' it would have and accented 'é'.

For starters, It's a name, and they're not always subject to standard English rules, especially since she's not English.

Second, multiple websites cite her as pronouncing her name a variation of "Gray-enn", including "Gree-en" and "Grenn", even "Graya" as I posted earlier (for her Swedish heritage). I've not once seen/heard an interview with it pronounced "Green".

[KalMart]

Kinda' like Ralph Fiennes.

[jaymes_e06]

...or Famke Janssen.

[KalMart]

Duke University Basketball Coach Mike Krzyzewski?

[Cunning Stunts]

My friend's name is spelled "Chrioni" but is pronounced "Keer-Ee-Ahn". That one cracked me up.

[jaymes_e06]

Yeah I know someone named "Take" they pronounce it Tauk-ee.

[Cunning Stunts]

Uh, I wouldn't exactly call that abnormal. Just Asian. :hehe:

[jaymes_e06]

:hehe:

[KalMart]

Ra's Al Ghul

[Cunning Stunts]

:hehe:

[Crook]

Ra's Al Ghul
No, actually. But I'd rather not start up that debate again. :o

[KalMart]

It's not pronounced 'rayshe'? Or was that just the frumpy woman at the Wayne manor party?

[Cunning Stunts]

Actually, I heard the reason that the creators of Ra's pronounced his name that way because they spoke with a student of the Arabic language.

Another board user says the same thing:

We had our daughter check at the Language Dept. of UCLA and they said it was "Raysh" - with a kind of rolling of the "r" sound
at the beginning of the word.

http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/dennyoneil/?frames=n;read=1079&expand=1

I personally think it sounds stupid, and like the movie's pronunciation better.

[Crook]

Either that person was wrong, or there are two ways of pronouncing it. I've personally asked 2 different Arabic friends of mine, and they both pronounced it like the movie. Either way, I'm sticking with the one that actually sounds menacing. :o

[regwec]

It's pretty ignorant to say that the correct pronunciation of a foreign word sounds "stupid". Stupid to who? English speakers? Who asked you?

[KalMart]

I'm sticking with "Rafe" Fiennes, because it sounds more thespian. :O

[Alex Logan]

Either that person was wrong, or there are two ways of pronouncing it. I've personally asked 2 different Arabic friends of mine, and they both pronounced it like the movie. Either way, I'm sticking with the one that actually sounds menacing. :o

Yep. :up:

[Cunning Stunts]

It's pretty ignorant to say that the correct pronunciation of a foreign word sounds "stupid". Stupid to who? English speakers? Who asked you?

Uh, it's called an opinion. So, it sounds stupid to me.

How is it ignorant to dislike how something sounds?

[regwec]

It is ignorant because saying that someone else's language sounds "stupid" ranks as the same sort of ethnic chauvinism as saying that Chinese people look funny. It passes an unsolicited judgement on other ethnic/linguistic traits that is dependent on ignorance. Your accent might well sound stupid to a South African, and your name might sound ridiculous to a Frenchman. Would you thank them for offering their opinions on the matter?

[Cunning Stunts]

I didn't say a language sounded stupid, I said a word sounded stupid... Don't blow this out of proportion. I'd hardly call that "ethnic chauvinism". With that said, no, I wouldn't thank them for offering their opinions, nor would I fault them, because they're just opinions. :whatever:

Ironic how you say that, considering the Arabic language has always been the one I found most beautiful to begin with.

[Figs]

You shouldn't be so easily put off. Humanity will die out with that kind of attitude. ;)


I still admitted that she is pretty hot. I'm just not big on her smile but maybe I need to see more of her work and I just happened to get a lot of **** pictures of her smiling on Google.

[Blackman]

I still think Monghan is a good choice for the role
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_025.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_003.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_001.jpg

Personally I think shes better looking than Cotillard

[Darlton]

Hello everybody, great thread. Just adding my two cents:

I think Marion Cotillard is the best option. Among those on the list who have the 'looks', she's the better actress (Cate Blanchett doesn't look anything like Selina). She may not be hottest in the list, but she's undeniably gorgeous and her acting skills compensate that more than enough. To me, she's a dream option. And her recent oscar, along with her casting in Chris Nolan's latest film, are going to pump up her odds A LOT. If she was picked for the role, I wouldn't be surprised.

[elgato]

I still think Monghan is a good choice for the role
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_025.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_003.jpg
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/People/normal_001.jpg

Personally I think shes better looking than Cotillard

Monaghan could work, mmm...but I don't see a femme fatale vive on her,she would be a better Lois Lane

[Laderlappen]

Hello everybody, great thread. Just adding my two cents:

I think Marion Cotillard is the best option. Among those on the list who have the 'looks', she's the better actress (Cate Blanchett doesn't look anything like Selina). She may not be hottest in the list, but she's undeniably gorgeous and her acting skills compensate that more than enough. To me, she's a dream option. And her recent oscar, along with her casting in Chris Nolan's latest film, are going to pump up her odds A LOT. If she was picked for the role, I wouldn't be surprised.Welcome. Nice to have another one on the Marion train.


Monaghan...well she is very attractive atleast.

[jaymes_e06]

Re:Monaghan Casting suggestion
I think she is pretty but not sexy enough to pull off CW

Re:Marion Casting suggestion
I love her look but her accent is very thick and I find it hard to picture someone with such an accent not found out right away when in CW garb, which would defeat the purpose in wearing a disguise.

[Majik1387]

Monaghan's face is just kind of odd looking to me for Catwoman honestly.

[batboy99]

Re:Monaghan Casting suggestion
I think she is pretty but not sexy enough to pull off CW

Re:Marion Casting suggestion
I love her look but her accent is very thick and I find it hard to picture someone with such an accent not found out right away when in CW garb, which would defeat the purpose in wearing a disguise.
Have you heard Marion talk??? Marions accent isnt thick at ALL! She just cant pull off an american accent well enough(from what we have heard so far) but her accent isnt thick at all really.

[jaymes_e06]

^Have you? It is very thick and beautiful but to much so for me to think she could pull off an american one believable enough to play Selina.

Marion in an interview for a movie (she starts talking at 1:45 if you want to skip to it)
XR0sKT4Qvgk

[Cunning Stunts]

Have you heard Marion talk??? Marions accent isnt thick at ALL! She just cant pull off an american accent well enough(from what we have heard so far) but her accent isnt thick at all really.

What movie did she do an American accent in? If you're talking about the Public Enemies trailer, one sentence is not enough to determine her abilities with an accent. On top of that, it wasn't a very convincing American accent at all (that said, her character is apparently part French, so the character could not really be used as a base model for her American accent).

[batboy99]

^Have you? It is very thick and beautiful but to much so for me to think she could pull off an american one believable enough to play Selina.

Marion in an interview for a movie (she starts talking at 1:45 if you want to skip to it)
XR0sKT4Qvgk
Yes I have. Many times. Again, it isnt thick. Plus she isnt really trying to hide it either. But it isnt a thick accent at all. Thick is like Sean Connery, Ray Winstone has a pretty thick accent too.
Marion's isnt thick. Yes its there but it isnt that thick. Its almost like her accent goes in and out. She can pronounce some things pretty well and some things she cant.
It might seem thick to some because she cant pronounce alot of english words or she just doesnt know how to say them. Im sure if they really need her to, she can get some practice in covering up the little bit of accent she has.
Basically all Im saying is yes, she has an accent ,but it isnt very thick. Of course it is noticable, but it isnt THAT noticable like others.
And yeah, we really havent heard her do an american accent so we cant judge(since cunning brings up the point that her character is partially french in PE,we cant judge it)

[Laderlappen]

And as mentioned before, here character in Public Enemies is half-french.

But no the accent isnt thick. She has an accent, butn thick it is not.

[Crook]

And as mentioned before, here character in Public Enemies is half-french.

That's really of no consequence unless the character was raised in a "French home".

[Cunning Stunts]

True... I kept forgetting to comment about that. But by "part French", I pretty much assumed she was straight out of France or had French (actually FROM France) parents.

[Laderlappen]

Her father was french.

[Crook]

Her father was french.
Again, that doesn't really mean anything. If Marion's character is born and raised American, then there is no reason why she'd have a natural foreign accent.

[batboy99]

And as mentioned before, here character in Public Enemies is half-french.

But no the accent isnt thick. She has an accent, butn thick it is not.
Exactly.

An accent doesnt automatically mean an thick accent.

[KalMart]

Uh, it's called an opinion. So, it sounds stupid to me.

How is it ignorant to dislike how something sounds?

What if someone insisted on calling Ralph Feinnes "Ralf", because they felt that "Rafe" sounded stupid? Would that be okay? :D

[Laderlappen]

Again, that doesn't really mean anything. If Marion's character is born and raised American, then there is no reason why she'd have a natural foreign accent.But she doesnt have a natural foreign accent. Personally I couldnt hear any french from those 3(?) lines we've heard.

[Cunning Stunts]

What if someone insisted on calling Ralph Feinnes "Ralf", because they felt that "Rafe" sounded stupid? Would that be okay? :D

Of course not, "Rafe" is how his name is actually pronounced. As far as Ra's Al Ghul's name goes, there seems to be conflicting reports, and on top of that, he's a fictional character, so I don't think he can get offended if one of us called him "Rahz" (if it's not accurate). That said, I pronounce it "Rahz" if there was real legitimate proof that his name is actually pronounced "Raysh". Although, technically, his creators did say they requested help from student of the Arabic language at some college, and she said it would be pronounced "Raysh", therefore, if the creators named him that way, it's his real name, regardless of whether or not actual Arabic pronunciation says it should be.

[elgato]

This girl is really growing on me:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/sweetxnxsour57/Winona%20Ryder/winona_ryder.jpg

[BobJM]

winona ryder?

[WeaponXProject]

Winona is so elegant and that is also why I think Marion is my number one choice. I like natural beauties like the both. Same goes with Natalie Portman.

[Crook]

But she doesnt have a natural foreign accent. Personally I couldnt hear any french from those 3(?) lines we've heard.
Personally her American accent slipped in some parts, therefore making it foreign by nature.

[[A]]

That thief can't act.

[elgato]

;16996452']That thief can't act.

If you're talking about Winona you will recieve a virtual kick on the balls

[Laderlappen]

Personally her American accent slipped in some parts, therefore making it foreign by nature.What I mean is that the accent isnt 100% french. Its very little french.
;16996452']That thief can't act.She can act. Winona is a great actress.

[Cunning Stunts]

Still, that hint of French will likely piss off a lot of fans.

[WeaponXProject]

Still, that hint of French will likely piss off a lot of fans.

F the fans, make a good movie. Pick a great actress.

[Crook]

Is the job of a great actor not to show a break in character? In this case, an American accent?

[Cunning Stunts]

... The fans are what make the movie successful. I don't think her accent will actually keep more than, maybe, one random dumbass viewer from seeing the movie (if that :p), but if they're unhappy with it, she will receive harsh criticism for it. Look at how this fanbase acts about Nolan's fight scenes and Bale's Batman voice.

[KalMart]

Of course not, "Rafe" is how his name is actually pronounced. As far as Ra's Al Ghul's name goes, there seems to be conflicting reports, and on top of that, he's a fictional character, so I don't think he can get offended if one of us called him "Rahz" (if it's not accurate). That said, I pronounce it "Rahz" if there was real legitimate proof that his name is actually pronounced "Raysh". Although, technically, his creators did say they requested help from student of the Arabic language at some college, and she said it would be pronounced "Raysh", therefore, if the creators named him that way, it's his real name, regardless of whether or not actual Arabic pronunciation says it should be.

Which sounds stupider....'toe-MAY-toe'.....or 'toe-MAH-toe'? :D

Still, that hint of French will likely piss off a lot of fans.
Neither the fake nor the real Ra's Al Gul in BB were middle-eastern...nor did they have Arabic accents. :O

[BobJM]

Rachel Weisz is steadily moving up my list. She looks great in her new movie Brothers Bloom.

[Cunning Stunts]

Which sounds stupider....'toe-MAY-toe'.....or 'toe-MAH-toe'? :D

Potato. ;)

[Cunning Stunts]

Rachel Weisz is steadily moving up my list. She looks great in her new movie Brothers Bloom.

Her accent sounded impeccable in it too.

[Crook]

Neither the fake nor the real Ra's Al Gul in BB were middle-eastern...nor did they have Arabic accents. :O
There's nothing to suggest that the character would have an Arabic accent. In fact, it wouldn't be probable given how he's traveled the world for the better part of several centuries. He'd more than likely have several dialects mastered.

[Alex Logan]

winona ryder?

Yeah, that's what I said. :whatever:

[KalMart]

There's nothing to suggest that the character would have an Arabic accent. In fact, it wouldn't be probable given how he's traveled the world for the better part of several centuries. He'd more than likely have several dialects mastered.

Is he Anglo or Asian in the comics? And what is there to indicate that Catwoman wouldn't have a slight to moderate European accent?

[Darlton]

And what is there to indicate that Catwoman wouldn't have a slight to moderate European accent?

Uhmmm, 70 years of comics...

I'm sure they would've bothered to drop some hint about that with so much time on their hands.

I don't care about Cotillard's accent. Maybe she can fix it (if she hasn't already) maybe she can't. But I don't mind giving Selina a bit of european background in the movie. Cotillard isjust that good.

[flickchick85]

Also, who's to assume that Cotillard as Catwoman would sound exactly like she does in the Public Enemies trailer? If people are afraid that an accent would automatically give away her identity, then I feel the urge yet again to bring up the dual accent option. I'm confident she could pull this off for 2 reasons: A.) On Public Enemies, she spent the entire shoot working on her accent. All the lines in the trailer (except for the final one) are from one of, if not the, very first scene she shot (as indicated by the first "spy photos" that came out from the set), which meant she'd barely had any coaching by that point. So it's a pretty good bet that her accent got much more convincing by the end. I for one thought the last line in the trailer was pretty darn convincing. And B.) If only Catwoman, and NOT Selina, had the American accent, she'd have far less lines she'd have to learn with an accent, so she'd have more time to perfect them.

And as I've said before, I'd actually prefer Catwoman, no matter who plays her, to use the dual accent approach, because it serves the same purpose as the Batman voice, without making her sound like a throat cancer victim. Plus it just happens to play into my hypothetical backstory for the character, too. :D