Would we really want an Avengers movie with the Hulk in it?

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Now I know I briefly talked about this on another post. But would we want to include him in an Avengers film?

First of all as a hardcore comic book fan I must say an Avengers film would be a dream come true.

Second of all as a die hard Hulk fan (Who has most of his body covered in Hulk tattoos) I am going to say I dont want him included in this.

Heres the reasons why-
-We all know Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man are going to be the main focus of the film. Leaving Banner to the sidelines much like Cyclops and Storm in the X-Men movies. Yeah it would be graet to see Banner Hulk-Out to take down Loki or Ultron or just for a battle with the big three mentioned above...but would you really want to see your favorite character have three lines of dialogue and pushed to the sidelines? I do not.

And if you dont believe me just take a look at the Wolverine movies..ahem excuse me...I mean X-men movies that primarily focused on Wolverine. Those WERE great films (The first two..the third one doesnt exist to me) but they failed to use some of the other big X-men that were part of the team in those films.

Also another great example is Spidey 3. Look at all the 'MAIN' characters in that film - Peter, Aunt May (can be argued she was just a cameo in this film), MJ, Harry, Gwen, Eddie Brock, Marko, etc. Granted they had to explain the origins of the symbiotte, Sandman, Harry Osborn (To a lesser extent), and of course Eddie Brock as Venom whereas in the Avengers film all the origins will be told previously, but I fear it would be a mess or again leave our 'boy' out in the cold.


So I know that was all rambling but ask yourself would you want Banner in an Avengers film where he might only appear twice as the Hulk or be background noise for the big three OR would you want Marvel Studios to take the time it would take to film an Avengers movie (Say with pre-production, filming, post, etc so around a year or two) and film another outstanding Hulk solo film?

Personally I want another kick ass solo film that maybe builds more on the mythos of this character. Like Leader, more Samson (Its Samson by the way people...not Sampson), more Ross (Both Betty and T-Bolt) and most importantly more Banner on the run trying to control the beast.

[Leto]

Hulk will be in the Avengers.

The Ultimates is basically the bible for how to plot an Avengers movie.

Hulk was in that, so he will be in the Avengers.

If that sounds too simple, you're overthinking things.

I'd like to see in the Avengers film the Avengers capturing the Hulk to either detain him or make him a member of the team. This gives a great oppurtunity to show how powerful the Hulk is and how Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and Ant-Man can handle a fight.

Then, once the dust settles, move on to the real threat of the film etc etc.

[Dangerous]

Yeah, I see Hulk working great in The Avengers film as the teams first big test.

Hulk will be a big part of say, 20-30 mins of the film.
It will be Hulk vs The Avengers in an amazing battle. So he will not be a sideline character. He will be a main character for a portion of the film.

After that he will either be captured or escape and then The Avengers will move onto the main threat, or main villain.
Perhaps at the end of the film, either as an Avenger or just because he decides, Hulk can help The Avengers topple their enemies.

Personally I'd prefer if Hulk does not join the team and instead remains a renegade.

[The Chris]

Do you guys think the general public will accept the Hulk as a villain?

[Dangerous]

^Not as a real villain, but as a threat to national security that The Avengers are tasked with taking down as their first main challenge, hell yeah.

[Kirmit]

What needs to happen in an Avengers movie for the avengers to consider hulk a threat and so go after him in a big battle but after realising he just wants to be left alone they cease fighting. I figure while this is going on there's a big baddy in the background who will come to light and Hulk will join the avengers in fighting him or them. If they follow this dynamic then hulk will be just as much a main character as all the other members of the team.

[Dr. DavidBanner]

First of all, I dont think anyone can say for certain what the story will be for this film. Yeah they probably will follow The Ultimates storyline but last I heard Penn was still penning the script (No pun on words intended). So yeah we could have 20-30 minutes of the Hulk rampaging through the city because of--

A-Misunderstanding OR B-A villian like Loki tricks him (It has happenend before).

So then what happens The Hulk is taken down by Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and whoever else is there at the time. Then we have Hulk purists (Dont think I would stoop low enough to bash this on the VS threads on numerous other comic book related sites) who will argue that the Hulk would win in a true fight that wasnt favored towards the other guys -- Or the fight ends with the Hulk transforming back into Banner which would have the same result as before saying that Banner wouldnt transform because The Hulk doesnt tire and he gets stronger etc etc etc.

Now it could happen that Steve Rogers tracks Banner down in hiding and talks to him into joining the team. That way we dont involve a Hulk vs Avengers fight that would just be unpleasing to some of the Hulk fans.

Now what happens? Like I said before Banner joins the team. So while the team focuses on the threat (Say if its Ultron or another scientific threat) he works behind the scenes on trying to bring the threat down. I think this recent solo film showed Banner not the nuclear scientist he was in the comic. In fact if you think back to the TV show David Banner was scientific smart but not to the extent where he would be able to build a robot. He was more street smarts with a tad of book smarts thrown in. And figuring it seems that Norton's Banner is based more like Bixby's Banner it would seem out of place to have Banner behind the scenes helping to create say a computer virus to bring down Ultron. That role of the science guy (Behind the scenes or not) is more suited for Tony Stark thus leaving Banner out of character and out of place in the grand scheme of things.

Look at it the other way, Banner joins the team only to be the muscle or the secret weapon. So they drop the Hulk down as a last resort. What happens to the character of Banner? I dont know about you guys but I was very compelled by Banner's journey to try to cure himself in this last film. They could show a little of his journey and quest in this film -- maybe in order to make Banner part of the team they tell him he would be surrounded by a group of people who could help him -- but in the end the character would probably just sit there in the Hellcarrier or Mansion just waiting to be called upon. A total waste of character!!!!

But after he is deployed as a secret weapon the Hulk is uncontrolable so that means what's going to happen? A fight between the team and him and brings me back to the earlier argument above. And if they try to skate over the conclusion of this fight, it would be very anti-climatic for some people and feel like they were left hanging.

Now I can see the counter arguement, what if Banner can control the Hulk in this film? Well personally do you think they would show more than 10 minutes of a medical procedure or mysticism or hypnosis to Banner controlling this beast? For something as big as this character getting the ability to control it should be more than just ten minutes...hell it should take up a good half of the film. It should be monumental and any Hulk fan would probably agree with me there.

I would rather settle for some smaller films like Hulk/Thor crossover, or Hulk/Iron Man first before an Avengers film...in fact before my favorite character (I hope I dont speak alone in this) is second fiddle to a bunch of other characters I would wish the studios would put money towards another solid solo flick.

[November Rain]

heh, how are you going to make an avengers film without the hulk?

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Easy remember The Hulk was around for the first 2-3 issues of the 616 universe of Avengers and I cant recall if he ever joined the team again...EVER.

Thats how you dont need the Hulk in the Avengers. You have the muscle with Thor being in the team

[November Rain]

never read the ultimates i take it? or any hulk comic where he fights the heroes?

[Dr. DavidBanner]

never read the ultimates i take it? or any hulk comic where he fights the heroes?

No I did read the Ultimates but again other than the Trial storyline what was Banner? A side character. And of course I have read multiple storylines featuring the Hulk against other Marvel Heroes. But if you READ my post my argument is why have the Hulk be a villian/side character/muscle used when the going gets tough/misunderstood in a movie when we could have another solo Hulk flick focusing on just Banner and his quest for a cure

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Personally I think the Ultimate universe has given NO LOVE to the Hulk. But again thats my opinion.

[Kirmit]

If we're going by Ultimates standards then Hulk is stronger than Thor so therefore he would be the muscle on the team, being the strongest, while Thor can use his powers in battle.

[Dr.Dude]

Personally I think the Ultimate universe has given NO LOVE to the Hulk. But again thats my opinion.

Agreed -- The Ultimates was incredibly unfair to Banner and his alter ego.


I'd love to see The Hulk in the Avengers movie and admittedly, he's not normally a team person; but I'll be flat out pissed if they take the Ultimates route and turn Banner into the villain of the piece.

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Agreed -- The Ultimates was incredibly unfair to Banner and his alter ego.


I'd love to see The Hulk in the Avengers movie and admittedly, he's not normally a team person; but I'll be flat out pissed if they take the Ultimates route and turn Banner into the villain of the piece.


Thank god there is someone else who would be pissed too. Honestly I dont see this turning out anyother way unfortunatly :csad:

[StanLee Wannabe]

Great topic. Been discussed before but bears repeating now that we know an Avengers movie is on the way.

Banner as villain = bad. Hulk as misunderstood villain = good/understandable.

As long as The Hulk got some damn fine action in the fight scenes and was a 2nd tier character (not 3rd or 4th tier (little to no screen time)) I'd be perfectly fine with it. And I'm a huge Hulk fan.

[EnSabahNur]

I'd like to see the Hulk in it. Have more Norton playing banner as a main character and have the hulk apear in a major roll at the end to help the avengers.

[Dr.Dude]

Thank god there is someone else who would be pissed too. Honestly I dont see this turning out anyother way unfortunatly :csad:

Yeah, I too really hope it doesn't go that way, because it would honestly ruin the movie for me...Hulk is far too complex and sympathetic a character to be reduced to that.

However, maybe I'm optimistic but my gut feeling is that they won't go that route. I see them likely having the Red Skull or someone like that as the villain, probably with AIM, HYDRA or some other terrorist organization behind him.

[Kirmit]

I can deal with them having our good old hulk as a misunderstood villain but I'm not up for them turning him into a cannibalistic, sex crazed ogre, you'll find there aren't many fans of ultimate hulk.

[chamber-music]

No I did read the Ultimates but again other than the Trial storyline what was Banner? A side character. And of course I have read multiple storylines featuring the Hulk against other Marvel Heroes. But if you READ my post my argument is why have the Hulk be a villian/side character/muscle used when the going gets tough/misunderstood in a movie when we could have another solo Hulk flick focusing on just Banner and his quest for a cure

Well the cure storyline can still play a part of the story. The Hulk can battle the Avengers and then when his turned back to Banner they can convince him that they can help him work on a cure with the help of Stark, Hank and Janet pym as well as all of Sheilds resources. All so Fury could offer him saftey and amnesty from the goverment as long as his under Avengers supervision. That would give Banner a reason to join the avengers as well as continue his storyline.

[GL1]

Banner was not a villain in his battle with the Avengers. The PR team painted him as a villain, but as far as the team concerned, he was one of them, which is why they were so pissed with Banner.

Using Hulk in this same manner does NOT prevent Banner from having a bigger part in the Avengers Movie than he did in the Ultimates. The two concerns are not related.

Again, having Hulk fight the avengers is NOT the same as Hulk being the villain of the entire film. This quote is particularly entertaining:
So yeah we could have 20-30 minutes of the Hulk rampaging through the city because of--

A-Misunderstanding OR B-A villian like Loki tricks him (It has happenend before).

As though Hulk only goes on rampages when he's tricked, or when there's a "misunderstanding." That's hilarious, dude. A 15 minute sequence of Hulk 'getting loose' from Banner and the team bringing him back in, bringing them into the limelight, would be awesome. Period. No need to disrespect, sideline or otherwise mar the Hulk is needed in order to get in this early action sequence.

but I'll be flat out pissed if they take the Ultimates route and turn Banner into the villain of the piece.

Banner was never the villain. Hulk was one fight early on, and he was always on the team, and he saved the day against the actual villain of the piece.

EDIT: I understand that Banner was disrespected in The Ultimates, I get that, but it wasn't because he fought them. From the beginning, Banner was characterized as a weasley, unscrupulous wackjob. As long as that's avoided, a Hulk vs Avengers fight is respectful to both side, cuz face it... the only one who should be able to control Hulk is Banner... not Fury, not Cap... just Banner.

And obviously, the Hulk vs Avengers fight does wonders for the pace, themes and storytelling of the film.

[November Rain]

No I did read the Ultimates but again other than the Trial storyline what was Banner? A side character. And of course I have read multiple storylines featuring the Hulk against other Marvel Heroes. But if you READ my post my argument is why have the Hulk be a villian/side character/muscle used when the going gets tough/misunderstood in a movie when we could have another solo Hulk flick focusing on just Banner and his quest for a cure
probably because the hulk is seen by the public as being a one trick pony.

I'd rather have him duking it out with thor, there are very few oppoortunities for both characters to interact so regardless of how minor a character he'd play, it's still worth watching.

[nocomics]

I woud'nt mind seeing Hulk v. Thor/ironman/ant-man then later during the movie all team together to take down the main villain...I like the idea of being misunderstood or just wanting to be left alone...They could nag banner and bam its on...

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Ok I think some people think I'm completely against an Avengers movie with the Hulk in it. So I am just going to simply put the question and subject as this (Something that I kind of apologize for not doing previously..but I got carried away with ranting like a dork), if you could pick one or the other. A sequel to this Incredible Hulk film or an Avengers film that might not focus on our favorite character which one would you prefer?

I choose the solo film so we can get 2 hours of just the Hulk and not 2 hours of other characters and the Hulk not getting much of the focus. I'm sure I make sense to some of you...I hope.

It would be like you Flash fans out there. If the choice came down to either a JLA film or a solo film which one would you want to see? I mean I think this is kind of cut and dry that if there was a JLA film he would not be up there with the big three, so that means not as much screen time.

[GL1]

Over the week, thinking about how Marvel dropped the ball on 2009 movies, I've decided that I don't need an Avengers movie until 2015... if they take years to get all the solo movies out... I'm good... I'll be just fine. Give everyone 2 or three shots... do some marvel studios side projects... let everyone's schedules line up and shoot three movies in a row LOTR style and call it a night. I'd be fine with that.

[COMPO]

well at the end of the last film it seemed to me that Banner had learned to control Hulk so maybe thats how he can be part of the team.

[ironman29758]

Hulk was in the avengers(read Essential Avengers volume 1) in fact he was the reason Avengers were formed, the Ultimates and made them famous so he is basically an important part of the avengers

[Dr. DavidBanner]

Hulk was in the avengers(read Essential Avengers volume 1) in fact he was the reason Avengers were formed, the Ultimates and made them famous so he is basically an important part of the avengers
I know he was in the first couple of issues of the 616 universe. But...ok...so you guys are saying you would rather want Marvel Studios to make an Avengers film where the Hulk/Banner won't be as big of a character as say Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor OR would you want another solo Hulk film? For a bunch of Hulk fans I'm truely shocked at this. The only team that would give the Hulk the screentime he deserves in a film would be a Defenders film (Unfortunatly I dont see Pantheon doing anything...I miss those guys in the comic!! I want Ajax back!!).

Ok heres another thing too, The Hulk character has always been considered a joke in the comics (Just look way back when he was crusiing around in space with rocket raccoon and the film maker (Her name slips my mind now)) so whos to say he wont be portrayed as a joke compared to the other heavy hitters?

Come on there has got to be someone on this board that can see the point I am trying to make!!!

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I must be the only who isnt thrilled by the idea of an Avenger's movie, i just dont see the attraction in it, and i DEFINATELY dont want to see Hulk in an Avengers movie before a TIH sequel, but with TIH's BO performance, an Avengers movie may be the only time we see him again in the near future :csad:.

[wolfboy]

You are absolutely right. You are the only one.

[Obi-Ron]

(Just look way back when he was crusiing around in space with rocket raccoon and the film maker (Her name slips my mind now))

Bereet?

[TheVileOne]

I don't get how The Ultimates is the bible for an Avengers movie, considering if The Ultimates was filmed as is, the general public would NEVER go see it.

[Gamma Ra]

Well it seems that the Marvel movieverse is a mixture of the 616 and the Ultimate universe's with a blend of it's own unique qualities.

Hulk has played a big part in the origins of both Avenger teams and should so in a movie version.