How do you feel about muslims?

[Superman4ever]

What's a Druze? I don't know if I have ever heard of that.....

It's a new religion that is an offset from Islam, kinda like Baha'i, that began in the 9th century. The Qur'an is not part of their religion and they have incorporated a lot of Gnostic and pagan beliefs and rituals.

It's not unusual for people to say they've never heard of them, there is less than 1 million world-wide. I believe the actual number is below 750,000. They're mainly found in Lebanon, Syria, Israel and Jordan.

[squeekness]

Thanks. :D

[Venomfan]

Before Islam the early people were cruel and unjust to women, they treated them like objects of mere desire, and often some of them went through hidious and unjust situations. To the point that they buried their duaghters alive.
this is not true. Before Islam many women were prominent trades people (this being a very respectable profession at that time) including Muhammad's first wife. We find that after Islam womens active role in business and other professions drop drastically. Also the things that are mentioned that you claim happened before Islam are still happening sadly too often across the Muslim world. Please don't be mistaken, i am not trying to sound offensive or anything, i just had to post when i saw something that i knew wasn't true. I love people, and that includes Muslims, i do have problems with the Qur'an, but that has nothing to do with my feelings towards the people.

[The Geek Vault]

One of my friends is muslim and he is really chill.

[Superman4ever]

this is not true. Before Islam many women were prominent trades people (this being a very respectable profession at that time) including Muhammad's first wife. We find that after Islam womens active role in business and other professions drop drastically. Also the things that are mentioned that you claim happened before Islam are still happening sadly too often across the Muslim world. Please don't be mistaken, i am not trying to sound offensive or anything, i just had to post when i saw something that i knew wasn't true. I love people, and that includes Muslims, i do have problems with the Qur'an, but that has nothing to do with my feelings towards the people.

This is such a ridiculous post, obviously from someone who has no idea of the history of the region and has NO idea what Islamic law dictates in regard to women. It completely negates historical or legitimate fact.

Islam abolished female infanticide, which if you knew your history, would know was a socially accepted practice in the Mid-East (and elsewhere) before Islam. Islam gave women greater rights in regards to marriage, divorce and inheritance, rights that were not afforded in other cultures, including the west, until centuries later. Islam recognized a woman as a full person, in fact the Qur'an states that Heaven is BENEATH the feet of mothers. So for you to state that women's rights were taken away when Islam was established is not only completely wrong and void of fact, it's an out right lie.

Your example of Khadijah to prove your point that women had more rights prior to Islam is like saying a peasant woman is considered an equal to a lady of stature during medieval period or that ANY woman was considered equal to a man. There are women of rank EVERYWHERE during that time, however, most of them got that power because a husband or, most likely a father gave them wealth to protect the family standing and name. Moreover the church, during the medieval period considered women to be inferior to men and that they had to be meek and obedient to their fathers and husbands. Divorce was the right of men only (this behavior toward woman was EVERYWHERE, in all regions, including the Mid-East prior to Islam). Also, an unmarried woman of stature, during medieval period, HAD to forfeit her land and rights to her new husband and then upon his death was only entitled to a third of what was already hers.

Y'know I'm not going to spend the whole thread debating this with you, this kind of attack is not new, and Venom you've done this crap before, so if anyone is curious about women's rights in Islam I ask you to read this paper.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/womensrightsbadawi.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Rights

[raybia]

This is such a ridiculous post, obviously from someone who has no idea of the history of the region and has NO idea what Islamic law dictates in regard to women. It completely negates historical or legitimate fact.

Islam abolished female infanticide, which if you knew your history, would know was a socially accepted practice in the Mid-East (and elsewhere) before Islam. Islam gave women greater rights in regards to marriage, divorce and inheritance, rights that were not afforded in other cultures, including the west, until centuries later. Islam recognized a woman as a full person, in fact the Qur'an states that Heaven is BENEATH the feet of mothers. So for you to state that women's rights were taken away when Islam was established is not only completely wrong and void of fact, it's an out right lie.

Your example of Khadijah to prove your point that women had more rights prior to Islam is like saying a peasant woman is considered an equal to a lady of stature during medieval period or that ANY woman was considered equal to a man. There are women of rank EVERYWHERE during that time, however, most of them got that power because a husband or, most likely a father gave them wealth to protect the family standing and name. Moreover the church, during the medieval period considered women to be inferior to men and that they had to be meek and obedient to their fathers and husbands. Divorce was the right of men only (this behavior toward woman was EVERYWHERE, in all regions, including the Mid-East prior to Islam). Also, an unmarried woman of stature, during medieval period, HAD to forfeit her land and rights to her new husband and then upon his death was only entitled to a third of what was already hers.

Y'know I'm not going to spend the whole thread debating this with you, this kind of attack is not new, and Venom you've done this crap before, so if anyone is curious about women's rights in Islam I ask you to read this paper.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/womensrightsbadawi.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Rights

Very good rebuttal Supes.

Vemon is so completely wrong in his post its just silly. The history that you just addressed is well documented by both Muslim and western history scholars, so vemon can spread his vemon all he likes but he cannot erase the true...at least for those who are not void of reason and have the ability and willingness to read a book instead of listening to someone void of knowledge on Islam.

[Superman4ever]

Very good rebuttal Supes.

Vemon is so completely wrong in his post its just silly. The history that you just addressed is well documented by both Muslim and western history scholars, so vemon can spread his vemon all he likes but he cannot erase the true...at least for those who are not void of reason and have the ability and willingness to read a book instead of listening to someone void of knowledge on Islam.

I was really going to go in depth with my post, but I'm too flippin' tired for this crap today. Anyway that link is superb research paper regarding Women from a historical perspective, what Islam brought and abolished...it's really well researched.

Anyway, Ray have you seen TDK yet? I was looking for your review on the bat-boards but couldn't find it. Anyway, I saw it last night at a midnight IMAX screening with my family and I don't have enough words to praise it or Heath. My G-d, Heath! :D

[raybia]

I was really going to go in depth with my post, but I'm too flippin' tired for this crap today. Anyway that link is superb research paper regarding Women from a historical perspective, what Islam brought and abolished...it's really well researched.

Anyway, Ray have you seen TDK yet? I was looking for your review on the bat-boards but couldn't find it. Anyway, I saw it last night at a midnight IMAX screening with my family and I don't have enough words to praise it or Heath. My G-d, Heath! :D

Believe it or not I haven't seen it yet. I wanted to go to the 12:01am show on Thursday but decided not to because I had to be at work the next day at 8:30am. Then had a baseball game to go to Friday night that I couldn't get out of, plus my brothers wanted me to go with them and for one of them Saturday was the only day he could go...so, I guess I'll be seeing it today at 7pm!

I cannot believe I've kept myself spoiler free...I cannot believe I haven't exploded yet in anticipation! It been a rough 48 hours.

Anyway, I will post my review of the movie for you and the one other person who cares to see it, probably Sunday morning.

Saw it on IMAX eh? You lucky guy! So could you distinguish when the IMAX sequences came up in the movie?

[Venomfan]

Y'know I'm not going to spend the whole thread debating this with you, this kind of attack is not new, and Venom you've done this crap before, so if anyone is curious about women's rights in Islam I ask you to read this paper.

excuse me but please point me towards where i've ever said anything of "this crap before". this is my first post in this thread for one. and the only other time i can remember talkng about Muslims at all on here was when i asked a question about what the deal was with the whole teddy bear thing awhile back. So please don't tell me i'm a liar about what i've studied, and then go and tell a lie about me. Maybe i have been misinformed in my studies, but i can only say what i have learned. So please don't go saying i was attacking, especially when what i said wasn't even an attack. now i'm going to read your links because i am doing my best to learn about Islam from all perspectives

interestingly enough, i have read that first link before, it was given to me by a Muslim booktable in London as a leaflet. what i found interesting about it was that it, as well as most of the literature at the book table is written with an anti-biblical slant. What i wonder is why is there this need to always attack the bible or jews and christians to build up their own faith. And all of the things quoted about Christianity actually have nothing to do with Christianity. i mean just because some dickwad wrote something and was a Christian or claimed he was or whatever, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the faith, especially when it contradicts biblical teaching.

[Superman4ever]

Believe it or not I haven't seen it yet. I wanted to go to the 12:01am show on Thursday but decided not to because I had to be at work the next day at 8:30am. Then had a baseball game to go to Friday night that I couldn't get out of, plus my brothers wanted me to go with them and for one of them Saturday was the only day he could go...so, I guess I'll be seeing it today at 7pm!

I cannot believe I've kept myself spoiler free...I cannot believe I haven't exploded yet in anticipation! It been a rough 48 hours.

Anyway, I will post my review of the movie for you and the one other person who cares to see it, probably Sunday morning.

Saw it on IMAX eh? You lucky guy! So could you distinguish when the IMAX sequences came up in the movie?

The picture fills up the screen completely for IMAX shots. For the scenes not shot by Imax cameras they were letterhead. I was on the edge of my seat for at least 80% of the movie...so have fun!

[Dew k. Mosi]

why don't we keep TDK talk to TDK forum, guys?

[Superman4ever]

why don't we keep TDK talk to TDK forum, guys?

Yes'm!

excuse me but please point me towards where i've ever said anything of "this crap before". this is my first post in this thread for one. and the only other time i can remember talkng about Muslims at all on here was when i asked a question about what the deal was with the whole teddy bear thing awhile back. So please don't tell me i'm a liar about what i've studied, and then go and tell a lie about me. Maybe i have been misinformed in my studies, but i can only say what i have learned. So please don't go saying i was attacking, especially when what i said wasn't even an attack. now i'm going to read your links because i am doing my best to learn about Islam from all perspectives

interestingly enough, i have read that first link before, it was given to me by a Muslim booktable in London as a leaflet. what i found interesting about it was that it, as well as most of the literature at the book table is written with an anti-biblical slant. What i wonder is why is there this need to always attack the bible or jews and christians to build up their own faith. And all of the things quoted about Christianity actually have nothing to do with Christianity. i mean just because some dickwad wrote something and was a Christian or claimed he was or whatever, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the faith, especially when it contradicts biblical teaching.

Damn, hype-lag is killing me.

If you're not the person I'm thinking of then I offer you my sincerest apologies. I truly thought you were someone else. I must be thinking of someone else with "Venom" in the name.

However, your "history" is completely inaccurate, and entirely false. And your offering it as truth -- which you did by countering another post by stating:

i just had to post when i saw something that i knew wasn't true.

-- is written completely with an anti-Qur'anic slant and supported by anti-Islamic claims, which is consequently unfortunate given your strong feelings in regard to your "booktable" experience and your anti-biblical claims.

Your justification that because a "Christian" wrote something and if it is contrary to scripture, it's still anti-Biblical/Christian is an often ironically tragic statement that some hard-lined (I'm not saying you are or most Christians, I'm speaking about zealots like Pat Robertson, John Hagee) Christians use to attack Islam, often then following with false claims, inaccurate and distorted history riddled with quotes from the "Koran", as evidence, removed from their contextual setting. It's a vile, but alarmingly effective attack.

Now as for the anti-Biblical stance that you witnessed from some Muslims, I HIGHLY object to it because the Qur'an states that we are to treat Christians and Jews as Brothers of the book, that we are a continuation to a divine linage that started with Prophets of the righteous books that preceded us. We have, as Muslims, Christians and Jews, SOOOOOOO much more in common than not. I'd rather focus on our similarities then debate ad nauseam our small differences.

For the link that I provided, I didn't notice an anti-Biblical stance, if there is one, then I'd be MORE than happy to apologize, and to provide you with a dozen other sources that describe the roll of Women in Islam, the Middle-East prior, during and after Islam. From both Western and Islamic Scholars.

[Superman4ever]

EDIT: What the hell! Hype-Lag...:(

[bored]

I don't think I'd ever seen a Muslim in person until college (good ol' Midwest :whatever:). Now, I'm friends with several. Oh, what difference a few years makes.

[Ocramed]

I feel that Muslims tend to be super-religious when it is convenient (i.e. Middle Eastern politics). :confused: Other than that, they're okay.

-O

[Mr. Socko]

Why do female Muslims dress in robes from head to toe, it is tradition? Just wondering.

[Superman4ever]

Why do female Muslims dress in robes from head to toe, it is tradition? Just wondering.

Part of Arabian/Mid-East culture that was integrated into the religion. The purpose of the coverings, before and after Islam's inception was protection from the sun. Believe it or not the clothing is actually pretty cooling, the bagginess of the wardrobe creates a ventilation system.

The Qur'an simply states that both men and woman should be chaste in action and dress. All that simply means is be careful of your actions, to avoid trouble. Now there is always a right to choose, so forcing a woman to cover or a man to grow a beard (which is NOT a requirement in Islam) is un-Islamic and completely against the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. The whole covering the eyes, and burka crap is extreamist ******** that men have forced on women.

[BargainHunter]

hey, as long as they don't force Wonder Woman to wear a burka, they're alright by me.

[Superman4ever]

hey, as long as they don't force Wonder Woman to wear a burka, they're alright by me.

LMAO! :hehe:

[Mr. Socko]

Part of Arabian/Mid-East culture that was integrated into the religion. The purpose of the coverings, before and after Islam's inception was protection from the sun. Believe it or not the clothing is actually pretty cooling, the bagginess of the wardrobe creates a ventilation system.

The Qur'an simply states that both men and woman should be chaste in action and dress. All that simply means is be careful of your actions, to avoid trouble. Now there is always a right to choose, so forcing a woman to cover or a man to grow a beard (which is NOT a requirement in Islam) is un-Islamic and completely against the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. The whole covering the eyes, and burka crap is extreamist ******** that men have forced on women.

Oh, I see! Never knew that, thanks for the answer:woot:

[bored]

I feel that Muslims tend to be super-religious when it is convenient (i.e. Middle Eastern politics). :confused: Other than that, they're okay.

-O

Couldn't that be a lot of religions?

[Venomfan]

Part of Arabian/Mid-East culture that was integrated into the religion. The purpose of the coverings, before and after Islam's inception was protection from the sun. Believe it or not the clothing is actually pretty cooling, the bagginess of the wardrobe creates a ventilation system.

The Qur'an simply states that both men and woman should be chaste in action and dress. All that simply means is be careful of your actions, to avoid trouble. Now there is always a right to choose, so forcing a woman to cover or a man to grow a beard (which is NOT a requirement in Islam) is un-Islamic and completely against the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. The whole covering the eyes, and burka crap is extreamist ******** that men have forced on women.
what would you say the ayats in the Qur'an that refer to womens coverings are about? for example the ones this sight discusses http://www.missionislam.com/family/hijab.htm
how do you explain these? are they entirely cultural? or just for that time? this is very interesting, the Muslims i've talked to say the hijab is important, that isn't to say all Muslims believe it to be, but in my experience this is the first time i've heard a Muslim say that the hijab isn't necessary. looking forward to your response


This paper has been prepared in response to a deterioration in the condition of Muslim women of this day and age, which is a consequence of the misconception that how a woman dresses is of little importance, as long as she performs her obligatory acts of worship. This misconception is not restricted to Muslim women in the West, but unfortunately is shared by many of their sisters in the East.
In the Glorious Qur'an we are told:
And let there arise out of you a nation inviting to what is good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. Those are the ones who are successful. Qur'an 3:104
Abu S'aed al-Khudri relates that he heard the Prophet (saws) say:
He of you who sees something wrong should correct it with his hand; if he is unable to do that he should condemn it with his tongue; if he is unable to do that he should at least resent it in his heart, and this is the lowest degree of faith.Muslim
It is clear that we must draw the attention of our Muslim sisters to the importance of wearing Islamic dress. This is not imposed upon us by the mere opinion of a scholar or a sheik. It is a Divine Command, and is necessarily in the best interest of the society of every age and place. In this we stand opposed to the opinion of some "modernists", who maintain that those living in a western society are justified in adapting to its norms and morals.
We believe that our religion is that which has been transmitted to us through the Prophet Mohammed (saws), his companions and our pious predecessors. A careful study of relevant Qur'anic ayat (verses) and Hadith (Prophetic traditions), along with the works of our pious predecessors, will reveal a strict emphasis on the need for women to observe modesty in their dress when they appear in public, by covering all of their bodies and any ornaments or other means of beautification they might wear.
Allah the Exalted says in Surat an-Noor, ayah 31:
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their veils over their (necks and) bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male servants who lack vigor, or small children who have no knowledge of women's private parts. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn you all to Allah in repentance, O believers, that you may be successful.
And He says in Surat al-Ahzab, ayah 59:
Oh Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments close around them. That will be better, that they may be known and so not be bothered. And Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.
From these two ayat of the Noble Qur'an and from the authentic sources of guidance provided for us, we can derive the following principles of proper dress and adornment for Muslim women:
1. The outer garment worn in public must cover all of the body except the face and hands.
Surat an-Noor, ayah 31 (quoted above) contains a clear command that a woman's natural beauty and her adornment are to be concealed from strangers, except that which might show unintentionally (i.e. parts of the dress or ornaments) or which show as a matter of course because it is not prohibited that they be shown (i.e. the face and the hands).
Abu Dawud narrated that 'A'ishah said:
Asma came to see the Messenger of Allah (saws). She was wearing a thin dress; the Prophet (saws) turned away from her and said to her: "O Asma, once a woman reaches the age of puberty no part of her body should be uncovered except her face and hands."
It should be noted that the Arabic word khumur (plural of khimaar) which has been translated above in the ayah from Surat an-Noor as veils, means head covers, not face veils, as may mistakenly be supposed. It refers to a cloth which covers all of the hair. Furthermore, the word juyoob (plural of jaib), also found in the ayah of Surat an-Noor, refers not only to the bosom, as is commonly thought, but also to the neck.
Qurtubi, an eminent mufassir (Qur'an commentator), stated:
Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimaar, throwing its ends on their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears, in the manner of the Christians. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimaar.
"And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment."
Women in the time of the Prophet (saws) used to wear anklets, which they could employ to attract attention by stamping their feet, making the anklets tinkle together. This practice was now forbidden, but even more important for us, these words make it absolutely clear that the legs and ankles are to be covered.
Bin 'Umar narrated
Let them lower their gaze Prophet (saws) said: "On the Day of Judgment Allah will not look upon one who trails his garment along out of pride." Um Salamah then asked: "What should women do with their garments?" The Prophet (saws) said: "They may lower them a hand span." She said: "Their feet would still be uncovered." The Prophet (saws) said: then lower them a forearm's length, but no more."
Tirmithi
The ayah from Surat an-Noor quoted above gives us specific and detailed information about what a Muslim woman should be sure to cover when she is in the company of strangers, and it gives a detailed list of those with whom she is permitted to be less inhibited. The ayah quoted from Surat al-Ahzab further directs Muslim women to put some outer garment over their clothes, and to draw it close around them.
Abu Dawud related that after this ayah was revealed the women of the Ansar appeared like crows (because of the black cloaks which they wore).
Some outer garment, whether a cloak or a coat, must be worn by a Muslim woman when she is in public, and even when she is in her own house or that of a close relative, if she is in the presence of strangers.
It was mentioned above that the face need not be covered. If, however, the woman is wearing make-up, she should cover her face, since the make-up is adornment beyond what is permitted.
Similarly, she should cover her hands if she is wearing nail polish or some other decoration or ornament. Furthermore, although it is permissible to leave the face uncovered in the presence of strangers, it is praiseworthy to cover it, as that was the practice of the wives of the Prophet (saws) according to authentic Hadith.
2. The outer garment must not be decorative itself or a means of beautification.
When Allah commands women not to reveal their beauty, He means both the natural beauty, with which He has endowed them, and all means which they might employ to enhance that beauty. Clearly, the garment which is used to screen the woman's beauty and her adornment from public view should not itself be a thing of beauty.
Fudalah Ibn 'Ubaid reported that the Prophet (saws) said:
There are three people that you should not concern yourself about: a man who parted from the Jama'ah and disobeyed his imam and died in that state; a slave who ran away from his master and died without returning; a woman whose husband departed from her after providing for her worldly needs and who then beautified (tabarrajat) herself in his absence. Do not worry about any of them."
Ahmad
The word tabarraja means not only to beautify oneself, or to make oneself pretty, but also to display oneself, to play up one's charms for the purpose of exciting desire. Imam Adh-Dhahabi said in his book Kitaab al-Kabaair (The Book of the Great Sins): "Of the deeds woman is cursed for are displaying the ornaments which she is wearing, wearing perfume when going out, and wearing colorful clothes and silky short cloaks."
The verb tabarraja includes all of these actions. Tabarruj is so abhorrent that it is associated with shirk, fornication, stealing, and other sins.
'Abdullah ibn 'Umar said:
A woman came to the Messenger of Allah (saws) to give her pledge for Islam. He said: "I accept your pledge that you will not associate partners with Allah, nor steal, nor fornicate, nor kill your child, nor commit a sin between your arms and legs, nor wail over the dead, nor beautify and display yourself (tatabarraji) after the fashion of the pre-Islamic days."
Ahmad
3. The outer garment must be thick and opaque so as to conceal the clothes worn under it, and loose so as to conceal the woman's form.
Proper covering cannot be achieved by wearing tight or transparent apparel.
The Prophet (saws) said:
"There will be, in the last days of my Ummah (nation), women who are dressed and undressed. Curse them: they are accursed."
Al-Tabarani
Abu Hurairah related that the Prophet (saws) referred to:
...women who are naked even though they are wearing clothes, go astray and make others go astray, and they will not enter paradise nor smell its fragrance, although it can be smelled from afar.
At Tabarani
The "dressed and yet undressed" women are those who wear transparent or very tight clothes, or clothes which are cut in such a way that they expose the body. Such clothes reveal more than they conceal.
The Prophet (saws) said:
Belief and the sense of shame are tied together; if one is lost the other is lost."
Al-Hakim
It should be noted that a woman should wear a loose over-garment for offering prayer. It should cover her whole body (as far as going out) and should be such that it conceals the shape of her arms and legs, as well as that of the rest of her body.
4. Muslim women are not to wear perfume in public.
Abu Musa narrated that the Prophet (saws) said:
Any woman who wears perfume and passes by some people who smell her perfume is like one who commits fornication.
Abu Hurairah said that:
A woman passed by him smelling strongly of scent. He called to her: "O slave of the powerful, are you going to the mosque?" She said that she was. He said: "Go back and wash it off. I heard the Messenger of Allah (saws) say: 'Any woman who goes to the mosque wearing perfume will not have her prayer accepted by Allah; first she should go back home and have a bath [to wash it off].'"
It is inappropriate for a woman to wear perfume in the mosque, where people are attending to the worship of Allah (swt); how much more inappropriate it is that she should wear scent elsewhere, where people are more liable to distraction. Scent attracts attention to a woman and may thereby stimulate sexual desires; this is improper in the marketplace and mosque.
5. The clothes of Muslim women should not resemble men's clothes.
Abu Hurairah said that:
The Messenger of Allah (saws) cursed the man who wears women's clothes and the woman who wears men's clothes.
Ibn Umar said that he heard the Messenger of Allah (saws) say:
He is not of us who imitates women nor is he of us who imitates men."
Al Hakim
Abdullah Ibn Umar reported that the Prophet (saws) said:
Three people will not enter paradise, and Allah will not look at them on the day of Judgment: the one who is disobedient to his parents, the woman who imitates men and the ad-dayooth.
Ahmad
Ad-dayooth is the man who permits women for whom he is responsible to engage in illicit sexual relations, or to display their beauty to strange men, thereby stimulating their sexual desires.
6. The clothes of Muslim women should not resemble those of the disbelievers.
In Surat al-Hadeed, ayah 16 we are told:
Has not the time come for those who believe to submit their hearts to Allah's reminder and to that which has been revealed of the truth, and not become as those who received the scriptures before and for whom the term was prolonged so their hearts grew hard? And many of them are rebellious transgressors.
Those who refuse to submit to Allah's commands are rebels against Him, and they are permitted to continue in their rebellion until their hearts become hard.
The ayah and Hadeeth quoted above serve as a double warning to us: we must take care to heed Allah's commands, revealed to us through the Qur'an and the Sunnah of His Messenger (saws), lest we suffer the fate of the recipients of previous revelations; we should also shun the way of life of any believing people. If we adopt what is theirs, we partake also of the quality of their hearts.
We pray to Allah to safeguard us from that, lest we become like them.
Given the condition of the disbeliever's' hearts, it is not surprising to find that much of their clothing, particularly that of women, is unsuitable for Muslims. It is designed to be attractive in itself and to enhance and attract attention to women's natural beauty.
7. The clothing of Muslim women should not be ostentatious.
Ibn Umar reported that the Messenger of Allah (saws) said:
He who dresses for ostentation in this world, Allah will dress him in a dress of humiliation on the Day of Judgment and set it on fire.
Abu Dawud
By following the seven principles above, In'sh Allah a woman will satisfy all the necessary requirements for proper Islamic dress. It should be noted that some of these principles also apply to men's dress, and clearly some would apply not only to what a woman wears in public, but also to what she wears in the privacy of her own home or in the homes of he relatives or her Muslim sisters.

[squeekness]

That's a lot of rules. :(

[Mr Sparkle]

I feel that Muslims tend to be super-religious when it is convenient (i.e. Middle Eastern politics). :confused: Other than that, they're okay.

-O

yeah, If I had used one word that described the political situation the middle east citizens have to go through on a daily baisis, I'd totally choose "convenient":huh: