How do you feel about muslims?

[Honey Vibe]

I just need to get this out. I don't care if this topic is uninteresting.

I'm beginning to think the "open-minded" thing is just an illusion with people. Everyone says they respect others' beliefs, up until they have to deal with those beliefs in an intimating context.

My boyfriend is a proud muslim. I love him for who he is and all his ways. But I cannot find a single friend or family member who doesn't judge him before they get to know him. I've heard everything from "he's satanic" to "watch your pocketbook".

The hostility of others has started fights between us. I think, now, I was foolish to run and tell him about the hurtful things another person said. It's all so hurtful.

[CaptainAmerica]

I have nothing against Muslims.

[Nathan Petrelli]

I dislike Scientologist's mainly because they are giving their money away to a business organization, not a religion. They achieve nothing. Muslims don't bother me.

[knowsbleed]

I think that people who say things like, "I don't judge groups, I judge individuals" have the right mindset, but how honest can they be? To be totally truthful, I think that person would have to have led a sheltered life or they have never encountered a group of those people who have shown hostility towards them. I am human and in being human I know I have flaws. One of those flaws it that I do, in some form or another, judge a person by their group. Not all the time and not in any extreme fashion... but mostly as a thought in the back of my mind saying "oh... he/she is this or that and they might act/say/do things this or that way". Does that make me a racist/bigot/*******? I don't think so because I know that my train of thought is part upbringing and part life experience. My thoughts do not dictate my actions... it is just an automatic response to a situation. I am more than mature enough to know that I must handle every situation on an individual basis, and I treat people that way as well... but that doesn't mean I don't have thoughts that contradict my actions sometimes. I just override them and move on with life.

To keep this on topic and not be so generalized, I think everyone has their own preconceived notions about Muslims. If they have any contact with any media then how could they not? But I know that just as in any group there are extemists and people who are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life and want to be free to carry out their beliefs... and I have zero problem with that. Its just that Muslims do not have a good name in the US right now and you know how Americans are... stereotyping is a past time hobby here. Learn how to deal with it.

[Superman4ever]

It's funny that you started this thread, I've been thinking about doing the same. I can't help but find myself be attacked and judged EVERYWHERE I go as of late. EVERYWHERE. And what really hurts is the ignorant attack on Barak Obama and his middle name. It's gotten SO bad that Obama's campaign wouldn't let to Muslim women sit behind him at a speech here in Detroit the other day. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i9Fn1iXzTXuYdO20X-RHRhhcPMUwD91DGF7O1)

I'm a born optimist, and along with my religion its been fundamental for my belief and hope in not only humanity as a whole, but the United States...that this really is the greatest country I could wish for, but lately...I kind feel like I'm freaking out here.

I'm blessed that I live in Detroit, with a large Islamic community, so most people here don't have some of the misconceptions that others in the nation have. And usually if someone has a question or concern they ask me...I LOVE it when people ask me about Islam...I love to teach.

This is what happened to me the other day. Like I said earlier, I live in a suburb just outside Detroit and go to Wayne State University Med school, we have a LARGE Muslim student base, around 20-25% of the class (out of 326 year 1 Med students) are Muslim students. It's a VERY diverse class. But the other day, I was with my class shadowing one of the general surgeons, and one of the students was wearing a Hijab (the head covering) and the woman that was presented to us started screaming a storm, "get that piece of s**t out of here!" She played it off coolly and stepped out, I followed in protest. Here is one of the top students in the class, not judged by her character, but what she chose to wear on her head. 15 of the 20 top students in the class are Muslim. The top cardiologists, gen surgeons, OBs, practitioners, ER docs...are Muslim doctors. State and nationally recognized academics and we're still nothing more than potential terrorists.

I've been reeling about this for days now.

Rant over...:(

[knowsbleed]

This is what happened to me the other day. Like I said earlier, I live in a suburb just outside Detroit and go to Wayne State University Med school, we have a LARGE Muslim student base, around 20-25% of the class (out of 326 year 1 Med students) are Muslim students. It's a VERY diverse class. But the other day, I was with my class shadowing one of the general surgeons, and one of the students was wearing a Hijab (the head covering) and the woman that was presented to us started screaming a storm, "get that piece of s**t out of here!" She played it off coolly and stepped out, I followed in protest. Here is one of the top students in the class, not judged by her character, but what she chose to wear on her head. 15 of the 20 top students in the class are Muslim. The top cardiologists, gen surgeons, OBs, practitioners, ER docs...are Muslim doctors. State and nationally recognized academics and we're still nothing more than potential terrorists.

There were no repercussions for her outburst?

[Mee]

They smell like goats.

[Darthphere]

Hate muslims?! One of my best friends is muslim!!!

[knowsbleed]

One of my old best friends is Muslim as well. When he used to say, "Assalamu alaikum", he'd get all hissy fissy when I replied, "Oscar Meyer bacon".

I never understood why.

[Darthphere]

One of my old best friends is Muslim as well. When he used to say, "Assalamu alaikum", he'd get all hissy fissy when I replied, "Oscar Meyer bacon".

I never understood why.

:huh:

[SapphirePrima]

I will never judge anyone based on their religion but on their actions.


Muslims are normal, people. It's sad that one bad apple can ruin the bunch.

[Darthphere]

I will never judge anyone based on their religion but on their actions.


Muslims are normal, people. It's sad that one bad apple can ruin the bunch.

Or 19.:o



:csad:

[Poetic Chaos]

I lived down the street from a Mosque in San Francisco. They're pretty weird.

[SapphirePrima]

I lived down the street from a Mosque in San Francisco. They're pretty weird.
Care to define normal for us?:o

[Poetic Chaos]

I take that back. With the cold weather SF is constantly under, the head gear works.

[Jolie_Desastre]

It's funny that you started this thread, I've been thinking about doing the same. I can't help but find myself be attacked and judged EVERYWHERE I go as of late. EVERYWHERE. And what really hurts is the ignorant attack on Barak Obama and his middle name. It's gotten SO bad that Obama's campaign wouldn't let to Muslim women sit behind him at a speech here in Detroit the other day. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i9Fn1iXzTXuYdO20X-RHRhhcPMUwD91DGF7O1)

I'm a born optimist, and along with my religion its been fundamental for my belief and hope in not only humanity as a whole, but the United States...that this really is the greatest country I could wish for, but lately...I kind feel like I'm freaking out here.

I'm blessed that I live in Detroit, with a large Islamic community, so most people here don't have some of the misconceptions that others in the nation have. And usually if someone has a question or concern they ask me...I LOVE it when people ask me about Islam...I love to teach.

This is what happened to me the other day. Like I said earlier, I live in a suburb just outside Detroit and go to Wayne State University Med school, we have a LARGE Muslim student base, around 20-25% of the class (out of 326 year 1 Med students) are Muslim students. It's a VERY diverse class. But the other day, I was with my class shadowing one of the general surgeons, and one of the students was wearing a Hijab (the head covering) and the woman that was presented to us started screaming a storm, "get that piece of s**t out of here!" She played it off coolly and stepped out, I followed in protest. Here is one of the top students in the class, not judged by her character, but what she chose to wear on her head. 15 of the 20 top students in the class are Muslim. The top cardiologists, gen surgeons, OBs, practitioners, ER docs...are Muslim doctors. State and nationally recognized academics and we're still nothing more than potential terrorists.

I've been reeling about this for days now.

Rant over...:(

:wow: did anyone say anything to her?

[psychocheeseman]

IT's pretty bad that so many people judge people solely on their religious beliefs before they even allow themselves the chance to get to know them. But it's natural for people to fear what they don't know or understand. I remember when i first came to university, i'm a fairly small framed guy, and there was a massive ex-army-turned-body-builder in one of my law classes, and purely because of his size, and the fact i'd never met body builders or army guys before, i had assumed he wasn't very smart, turned out he was a bit of a nerd like the rest of us, and i felt pretty stupid for being so prejudiced.

just goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover.

[knowsbleed]

just goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover.

Well, you shouldn't... but as a human you will.

[chaseter]

Well, you shouldn't... but as a human you will.
But some books totally deserve it like "How to pleasure your man.":o

[Scooter]

I suspect I don't care for the explodey ones, but I've never met one, so I don't know. The ones I do know are generally fine. Except one. He's kind of a dick, but I don't think it's because he's a Muslim. I think he's just a dick.

[AndThePickles]

Although there are specific sects of Islam I dislike, I don't have a problem with Muslim people overall. Some of the nicest, sweetest people I've ever met were Muslim. I had a best friend in high school who was Muslim as well :up:

[Superman4ever]

There were no repercussions for her outburst?

Actually the attending really impressed us. After we walked out the whole group was told to step out (there was a total of 6 of us). While she told her off. She then passed off the patient to another doctor, which is a BIG deal. The President of the school and the chief of medical staff were notified. The school and the hospital were great at responding to it, which is fine and dandy, we all know this isn't the policy or attitude of either institution. It was one patient who is under a LOT of stress, she's been having health problems for years and was in for her 3rd major operation, so I can totally sympathize with her. We checked in on her 2 nights ago and she seems to be doing fine, thank goodness.

It's just been bugging the hell out of me for days now, tho. I guess, since this is the first time that this has happened to me in a hospital...I've been volunteering, working and studing in hospitals since I was 13, I'm 26 now, and I've never had anyone insult my race or religion in this environment. Here it was always my willingness to help, my character, my bedside manner that overcame pettiness.

Usually, I'm pretty good at shrugging these things off, and most of the times I've been able to reverse such negative attitudes, but it really feels like it's building up to epic proportions...I dunno, maybe I'm just paranoid right now.

[Finlandman]

Muslims are good people IMO. It's stupid to separate people by religion.

[J-Sentius]

Would this be an issue before 9/11?

Funny how the world changes in 1 day and the media.

I'm a Muslim by the way :)

[Bunker]

I pity people that have something against Muslims.

[chamber-music]

Would this be an issue before 9/11?

Funny how the world changes in 1 day and the media.

I'm a Muslim by the way :)

Good point. The funny thing is that 9/11 made things worst for Muslims the world over. Bin Laden not just helped give Islam and Muslims a bad name, he also put a spotlight on Muslims and helped create alot of Islamophobia through out the world.

[Joker]

Are these Muslims hot chicks who will have sex with me? Cause if not, I hate them like I hate everyone else who isnt a hot chick that will have sex with me.

[Clobberin' Time]

Re: how do you feel about muslims?

As with any group of people, there are a select percentage that tarnish the image/name of said group. Doesn't mean they should be judged on the rogue element that continually attempts to discredit them. Long gone are the days when an ethnicity is accepted on their merits rather than their misgivings.

There will always be a partisan few that put the people they claim to represent/follow in a bad light...

...TDK fans my case in point :woot:

[Bunker]

Re: how do you feel about muslims?

As with any group of people, there are a select percentage that tarnish the image/name of said group. Doesn't mean they should be judged on the rogue element that continually attempts to discredit them. Long gone are the days when an ethnicity is accepted on their merits rather than their misgivings.

There will always be a partisan few that put the people they claim to represent/follow in a bad light...

...TDK fans my case in point :woot:

Not all TDK fans are d bags, only the ones that degrade other superhero films. Marvel fan boys are just as bad.

[November Rain]

Although there are specific sects of Islam I dislike, I don't have a problem with Muslim people overall. Some of the nicest, sweetest people I've ever met were Muslim. I had a best friend in high school who was Muslim as well :up:
This is probably the problem alot of people have at the moment.

You're probably referring to the individuals that sacrifice their lives because they feel they are being overall victimised by not an individual by an entire way of life.

The reason you probably have this opinion is based on the fact the media has pumped a somewhat bias opinion of them on yourself. That's easy for them to do because the media want you unsettled and want to breed fear into you because a society is easier to control if there is less unity within it.

But how often does the media correctly try to show exactly what the reasons these people have for their actions? And on the flipside, how often does the other camp get to see things clearly from our society's point of view (since they are getting similar misinformation on their side in order for the leaders to get what they require).

Ultimately there are half-truths on both sides that make up the complete package but we are never likely to ever get them because it allows those higher up to follow another agenda and either use our support financially or physically to carry things out.

Although their actions may not be considered here the best, I feel ultimately it is our responsibility as a society to uncover the underlying factors of conflict in order to reach some sort of common ground, people rarely attack without feeling they have been backed into a corner.

The way you've described this certain sect of people can actually be seen in all sects of people, so your opening gambit is really open for any distribution of individuals within a group. I mean it's not like there haven't been autrocities commited by america, whites, teenagers, internet people,gamers, women or other group you may find yourself affiliated with, yet you'd probably be easier to separate yourselves from those parties while religious beliefs seem to be more of a stigma.

still, considering the whole of history, We should probably be more worried about people acting on behalf of christianity rather than anything else, even to this day (even when it's not completely apparent) and what their effects of acting and not acting have done to the world to date and will do in the future.

[November Rain]

I think islam is synonymous with the middle east which brings its own connotations of answering this question.

just like anything, when people lack the ability to understand or want to understand why people do or act in certain ways, it's always going to have tension. Human beings aren't the best with dealing with other people's cultures and ways of life. We'd rather have people adapt to ours instead of trying to integrate theirs.

[Mister Sinister]

The trouble is Islam is now associated with terrorism, probably forever, but the vast moderate majority of decent, law-abiding Muslims need to get out there and shout from the rooftops that those people DON'T represent them.

[Johnny Drama]

Not all TDK fans are d bags, only the ones that degrade other superhero films. Marvel fan boys are just as bad.

I dont think so man, The Batman fans are a rough lot, you really have to watch what you say on those boards. More than half the flaming I have witnessed here was on the Batman boards alone.

Back on topic, I know a guy who is muslim and he is a prick to the tenth power, and I know a muslim girl who is one of my best friends and she is sweet, nice and overall fun to be around.
so it depends on the person, same as any other religeon

[Joker]

I dont think so man, The Batman fans are a rough lot, you really have to watch what you say on those boards. More than half the flaming I have witnessed here was on the Batman boards alone.


Shut up you stupid retarded marvel zombie :cmad: Go watch your gay Hulk movie where he has sex with Robery Downey or whatever :rolleyes:

;)


Great username, btw :o

[kainedamo]

It annoys the heck out of me to watch youtube videos of paranoid a-holes thinking Obama is a Muslim, and thinking it's a bad thing that he has a Muslim background.

[Johnny Drama]

Shut up you stupid retarded marvel zombie :cmad: Go watch your gay Hulk movie where he has sex with Robery Downey or whatever :rolleyes:

;)


Great username, btw :o

LoL :woot:
Thanks!

[hammy]

I think a lot of people have issues with Arabs, as opposed to Muslims. Sometimes the two are related, sometimes they are not.

[kane9321]

I get the feeling that this wont end well

[Erzengel]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/hippy_fascist/imgad-2.jpg

[kane9321]

911 changed everything for muslims. I have a few good muslim friends,and whenever we go out they'll "ALWAYS" get that look from people. I remember a few months ago my "female muslim friend" and I were on the train and she had on her burka(sp) she sat down and instantly people that were reading newspapers fixed their eyes on us...well on her...not a good feeling I really felt bad for her

[Colossal Spoons]

The Islam religion is in favor of stem-cell research. Cool in my book :up:

[Prison Mike]

I like everyone just as long as they're not stupid.

[Johnny Drama]

I like everyone as long as they're not robots.

I'm only racist against robots...

[Johnny Drama]

And with good reason too!

I mean, they're ROBOTS!

[Addendum]

I'm beginning to think the "open-minded" thing is just an illusion with people. Everyone says they respect others' beliefs, up until they have to deal with those beliefs in an intimating context.


I respect the right of people to believe in something, if they decide for themselves.

However, that does not mean I have to respect what they believe.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The hostility of others has started fights between us.Well you'd better watch out. He might saw your head off and put it on the internet! :eek:

[Colossal Spoons]

Hezbollah-tube :(

[Johnny Drama]

Hezbollah-tube :(


:pal:

[jaguarr]

I just need to get this out. I don't care if this topic is uninteresting.

I'm beginning to think the "open-minded" thing is just an illusion with people. Everyone says they respect others' beliefs, up until they have to deal with those beliefs in an intimating context.

My boyfriend is a proud muslim. I love him for who he is and all his ways. But I cannot find a single friend or family member who doesn't judge him before they get to know him. I've heard everything from "he's satanic" to "watch your pocketbook".

The hostility of others has started fights between us. I think, now, I was foolish to run and tell him about the hurtful things another person said. It's all so hurtful.

Well, here's part of the problem you're experiencing. You have to find the balance between letting your boyfriend know which people in your circle simply cannot be trusted where he's concerned and knowing which one's are venting and aren't really a problem. Also, finding ways to tactfully express what's being said about him in those instances where you really do need to tell him (and I would hope those are the exception rather than the rule) would seem to be key.

The other part of your problem with all this is that it's sort of up to you to inform and educate these folks from your circle that have these misnomers about Islam and are holding them against your boyfriend. Take them to task for it. Make them consider and regard him as an individual and a person rather than as a stereotype or "category" based on disinformation and broad-sweeping generalizations. Otherwise they will continue to say these hurtful things causing you to either distance yourself from them or from your boyfriend. You are the one who is going to have to bring everyone together because, frankly, no one else is going to do it.

jag

[Erzengel]

Agree with what Jag said, also you don't want your bf declaring a jihad on your friends and family. :up:

[Darthphere]

Agree with what Jag said, also you don't want your bf declaring a jihad on your friends and family. :up:

Or a Fatwa.

[AndThePickles]

This is probably the problem alot of people have at the moment.

You're probably referring to the individuals that sacrifice their lives because they feel they are being overall victimised by not an individual by an entire way of life.

The reason you probably have this opinion is based on the fact the media has pumped a somewhat bias opinion of them on yourself.

No. I took a religion class in college and have talked to Muslim friends about the different sects. I don't agree with the Wahabbis views because they're so violent, and I don't even mean in regards to our country.



The way you've described this certain sect of people can actually be seen in all sects of people, so your opening gambit is really open for any distribution of individuals within a group. I mean it's not like there haven't been autrocities commited by america, whites, teenagers, internet people,gamers, women or other group you may find yourself affiliated with, yet you'd probably be easier to separate yourselves from those parties while religious beliefs seem to be more of a stigma.


How did I describe anyone in that post? :huh: All I mentioned was that there was one I disagreed with.

[Darthphere]

ATP hates the Muslims. She only likes them when they're voiced by Steve from Full House, an infidel!

[Johnny Drama]

No. I took a religion class in college and have talked to Muslim friends about the different sects. I don't agree with the Wahabbis views because they're so violent, and I don't even mean in regards to our country.

Oh god, now whats wrong with Wahabbi? It's delicious, spicey, and goes great on almost all sushi! :yay:

[rizzo51]

[quote=Honey Vibe;15070477]"he's satanic" to "watch your pocketbook".

quote]
poor guy, i don't feel negativly twords muslims i see alot of it though around i just don't get it. Maybe becasue i've a half shaved head, facial piercings and about 40 tattoos i'm more incline to get to know people rather than just by what they look like or where they originate.

[AndThePickles]

ATP hates the Muslims. She only likes them when they're voiced by Steve from Full House, an infidel!

Pssh! Disliking a sect of Islam just means I don't agree with a certain group's religious views, has nothing to do with disliking the actual people themselves.

[Darthphere]

Pssh! Disliking a sect of Islam just means I don't agree with a certain group's religious views, has nothing to do with disliking the actual people themselves.

It is a whole new world after all.:o

[Erzengel]

A new fantastic point of view. :up:

[Démon]

I see Muslims the same way as I see anyone else. They just follow a different faith from the majority of North Americans, and I really don't see why people make such a big deal out of differences of religion.

I have noticed a sort of disturbing trend, though, of ignorant people regarding the Islamic faith as a joke, mocking it and insulting the followers. And I've seen it happen on these forums before, a few snide remarks about Muslims (Not in this thread, mind you, but I have noticed a few posts while surfing through the forum with the posters regarding it as religion with no basis and making ignorant comments about it.) What's worse though is that people who say things like that aren't met with opposition, but sometimes even approval. :csad:

[amazingfantasy15]

I don't care what God you follow, be it Jesus, Allah, Zeus, whatever, if you're cool to me, I'll be cool to you.

"It's not who you are underneath, but what you *do* that defines you"

[Captain_BluTac]

I'm pretty indifferent to Muslims, personally I neither hate or love Muslims, because I think to say you have an opinion about a group of people is stupid, because there will always be a balance, for every person that would slit your throat, there is a person that would show you compassion and love, I to give an example I will say about Salim he was my best friend until I was about 10, and he was literally the nicest person I've ever met, and then in contrast there was his sister Shayima (Sp?) who was a right cow, who hit me with a plastic skipping rope, so as I say there's a balance.

[luke1234]

I respect Muslims, and fell bad that in 98% of films they are portrayed as terrorist

[Jolie_Desastre]

at least we have that one dude on lost :(

[Erzengel]

Durka, durka, Muhammad, jihad.

[Figs]

I don't have anything against Muslims or Jews or Christians/Catholics for that matter.

Who I do have a problem with is the extremists in those groups. The ones that took their religion too far and are in my book, mental ****ing psychos.

[Superman4ever]

at least we have that one dude on lost :(

God bless Sayyid. :(

Aliens in America was WONDERFUL and was critically acclaimed, just couldn't get the ratings...I was bummed as hell to lose that show. :csad:

[Prison Mike]

Aliens in America wasn't that bad actually. I laughed a couple times.

[The Chairman]

Though I admit to having some misgivings about them at first after 9 / 11, in reality, I have nothing against them. Heck, my cousins are Muslim.

[Peter_Porker]

I never met a Muslim I didn't like!

[Jolie_Desastre]

God bless Sayyid. :(

Aliens in America was WONDERFUL and was critically acclaimed, just couldn't get the ratings...I was bummed as hell to lose that show. :csad:

i heard about that show! i just never knew when it was playing :(

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I married a Muslim woman. Amazing the devotion that she has to her family (besides me), I've learned a lot in that area from being with her :o

[jaguarr]

I married a Muslim woman. Amazing the devotion that she has to her family (besides me), I've learned a lot in that area from being with her :o

Are her family (and more importantly SHE) cool with you not being Muslim (I'm assuming you are not)? Religion can be sticky stuff, especially with your spouse and/or their family. I'm thankful that my wife are pretty much on the same page where religion is concerned (both agnostic with an acknowledgment that there's something of a higher power out there, a higher energy really, that connects us all even if it doesn't have a face and a name and a bunch of man-made mythology surrounding it).

jag

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Are her family (and more importantly SHE) cool with you not being Muslim (I'm assuming you are not)? Religion can be sticky stuff, especially with your spouse and/or their family. I'm thankful that my wife are pretty much on the same page where religion is concerned (both agnostic with an acknowledgment that there's something of a higher power out there, a higher energy really, that connects us all even if it doesn't have a face and a name and a bunch of man-made mythology surrounding it).

jag

Well, she met me at a time when I was not practicing anything. I had a talk with all the male family members. We first dated for a year secretly and knew when we talked with them about "being together" it meant immediate engagement. After doing that we did a combo of a arabic/american traditions... We did go to a mosque so that the marriage would be seen under their religion as true, obtained a license, and then had an arabic/american wedding with an american judge who had us repeat vows.

I told her family if they wish our children to be raised muslim I don't have a problem with it, as it made my wife turn out just fine. They liked the answer, and it's the truth. Most religions are a decent moral foundation. I never changed view on muslim people from something like 9/11. That didn't represent them as a whole to me EVER. Every culture has their extremists.

[Superman4ever]

I married a Muslim woman. Amazing the devotion that she has to her family (besides me), I've learned a lot in that area from being with her :o

Really? Cool. Same question as Jag. This is interesting.

And Jo, that was the problem with Alien in America...even though most critics loved it the CW just didn't promote it well. It's also the CW, had it been on any of the other stations it probably would have done better. It was hilarious, or I thought. :(

[Superman4ever]

Well, she met me at a time when I was not practicing anything. I had a talk with all the male family members. We first dated for a year secretly and knew when we talked with them about "being together" it meant immediate engagement. After doing that we did a combo of a arabic/american traditions... We did go to a mosque so that the marriage would be seen under their religion as true, obtained a license, and then had an arabic/american wedding with an american judge who had us repeat vows.

I told her family if they wish our children to be raised muslim I don't have a problem with it, as it made my wife turn out just fine. They liked the answer, and it's the truth. Most religions are a decent moral foundation. I never changed view on muslim people from something like 9/11. That didn't represent them as a whole to me EVER. Every culture has their extremists.

They should do a special on you two. Wow. :O

[Joker]

Seeing as Celldog got banned, I will answer this question for him...

"Muslims are a barbaric religion who do nothing but kill and rape good christians. They should be nuked off the face of the earth, so us good christians can rule like we should. Vote McCain, 08."

[jaguarr]

Well, she met me at a time when I was not practicing anything. I had a talk with all the male family members. We first dated for a year secretly and knew when we talked with them about "being together" it meant immediate engagement. After doing that we did a combo of a arabic/american traditions... We did go to a mosque so that the marriage would be seen under their religion as true, obtained a license, and then had an arabic/american wedding with an american judge who had us repeat vows.

I told her family if they wish our children to be raised muslim I don't have a problem with it, as it made my wife turn out just fine. They liked the answer, and it's the truth. Most religions are a decent moral foundation. I never changed view on muslim people from something like 9/11. That didn't represent them as a whole to me EVER. Every culture has their extremists.

That's awesome, man. I wish you much joy and happiness together. As someone who's also in a multi-cultural, mixed race marriage (my wife is 1st Generation Dominican-American) I'm always curious how couples in similar situations handle the unique issues that present themselves from those circumstances. Thankfully, as I mentioned, my wife and I don't have a religious disconnect (though both sides of our families are somewhat religious and sometimes forget that we are not) but there are some cultural hurdles with her family in particular since her folks immigrated here from the Dominican Republic back in the late 60's (my mother-in-law still does not speak a whole lot of English). My family has been pretty easy for my wife to acclimate to since she's more American than Dominican (though she did live in the DR for several years at one point).

jag

[Mr. Credible]

I dislike Scientologist's mainly because they are giving their money away to a business organization, not a religion. They achieve nothing. Muslims don't bother me.

yeah... not at all like those catholics who are guilt tripped into putting $10 in the collection plate every sunday.

they do get so much in return, though.

[Mr. Credible]

Durka, durka, Muhammad, jihad.

you win.

america, eff yeah!

[Doomed_hero]

My mother In Law said that Barak Obama was a muslim who was trying to become President so they could take over. It is from a internet e-mail sent around as propaganda against Obama. And I find it sad that it is a negitive attack to call someone a Muslim. It is a proud reilgion which like any other has been slandered by others using it for power, control or simply misreading it. It is, in reality, a beutiful reilgion. It recived negitive overtones in the west cause its growing number and power alarmed christian powers at the time. It started a rivalery with two cultures that has never fully healed and whose differences where brought to the front again with 9/11. I was disusted with the attacks on Muslim american in the aftermath. People simply trying to get by and who don't view the Koran as a book of hate.

This is not meant to hurt anyone, but this resaon is why I have trouble following reilgion. The two main forms are based on outdated books. A jihad in the time of Mohommad was important cause people where out to destory his reilgion, and you had to defend your beilefs. It could also been a change in ones self, a inner holy war. But this meaning has been lost with time, much like the bible and selling daughters into slavery or not touching a dead pig skin.

[BatSpider]

I have the UPMOST respect for the religion of Islam, Supes4ever and raybia know that

[BatSpider]

Durka, durka, Muhammad, jihad.
So naive and immature :whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever:

[Mee]

So naive and immature :whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever:
Welcome to the Hype!



Enjoy your stay, poopyhead.

[Joker]

So naive and immature :whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever:

Yeah really, how dare he make refference to political satire!

[Jolie_Desastre]

My mother In Law said that Barak Obama was a muslim who was trying to become President so they could take over. It is from a internet e-mail sent around as propaganda against Obama. And I find it sad that it is a negitive attack to call someone a Muslim. It is a proud reilgion which like any other has been slandered by others using it for power, control or simply misreading it. It is, in reality, a beutiful reilgion. It recived negitive overtones in the west cause its growing number and power alarmed christian powers at the time. It started a rivalery with two cultures that has never fully healed and whose differences where brought to the front again with 9/11. I was disusted with the attacks on Muslim american in the aftermath. People simply trying to get by and who don't view the Koran as a book of hate.

This is not meant to hurt anyone, but this resaon is why I have trouble following reilgion. The two main forms are based on outdated books. A jihad in the time of Mohommad was important cause people where out to destory his reilgion, and you had to defend your beilefs. It could also been a change in ones self, a inner holy war. But this meaning has been lost with time, much like the bible and selling daughters into slavery or not touching a dead pig skin.


i remember earlier this year when a kid next to me was yelling in the lunch room randomly

"Obama's a Muslim! Obama's a Muslim!" "Don't vote for him!"

and then i'm like, "um, i'm a muslim."

and then he goes

" Yeah, but you didn't go to terrorist camp."
then he started yelling

"Obama's a terrorist! Obama went to terrorist camp!"

[Superman4ever]

I have the UPMOST respect for the religion of Islam, Supes4ever and raybia know that

You're a great friend T! :yay: This thread really has done me good tho.

So naive and immature :whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever::whatever:

Simma daaaa'naw! He's kidding buddy...:O Anyway it's Erz, he's cool.

[kainedamo]

i remember earlier this year when a kid next to me was yelling in the lunch room randomly

"Obama's a Muslim! Obama's a Muslim!" "Don't vote for him!"

and then i'm like, "um, i'm a muslim."

and then he goes

" Yeah, but you didn't go to terrorist camp."
then he started yelling

"Obama's a terrorist! Obama went to terrorist camp!"

And what happened after that?

[Mee]

And what happened after that?
He rode off on a flying unicorn and lived happilly ever after.

[The Senator]

Seeing as Celldog got banned, I will answer this question for him...

"Muslims are a barbaric religion who do nothing but kill and rape good christians. They should be nuked off the face of the earth, so us good christians can rule like we should. Vote McCain, 08."

CellSlim hated McCain just as much as he hated Obama.

[Arkady Rossovich]

I just need to get this out. I don't care if this topic is uninteresting.

I'm beginning to think the "open-minded" thing is just an illusion with people. Everyone says they respect others' beliefs, up until they have to deal with those beliefs in an intimating context.

The first time I saw one when when I vacationed to America,many years ago. I had heard of them from the British people I know,and I don't completely trust them. Even when America throws it's propaganda on Iraq out,it's a whole other faith. People may say they are open minded,but they are not. Would you dare to sit next to a middle eastern person on a airplane? Or ask them if they have taken a shower recently? No. I would call it honest,and natural.

[Nirvana]

Eh, they dress funny.

[BatSpider]

Yeah really, how dare he make refference to political satire!
To have it be a symbol for a religion is bull****

[BatSpider]

Eh, they dress funny.
and im pretty sure they think you do to :cwink:

[Captain Planet!]

how do you feel about muslims?
I feel that they are muslimy.

[ANTOINE X]

Everybody is racist, just give them a couple of wine and see are things change quickly :whatever:

[Mee]

Everybody is racist, just give them a couple of wine and see are things change quickly :whatever:
I think you may are right.

[Asteroid-Man]

It depends. If he's a nice muslim, just like a nice christian or a nice budhist, I like him/her. If he/she is a jackass to me, I'll stay the hell away no matter what their religion is, cause I don't wanna get in a fight.

[Superman4ever]

Strangely enough - I have never found myself attracted to a Muslim.

Y'know what they say: Once you go Muslim you CAN'T go back.

[kainedamo]

I've made a youtube video on this subject.

zRvWo0BXcfQ

[Moviefan2k4]

I'm beginning to think the "open-minded" thing is just an illusion with people. Everyone says they respect others' beliefs, up until they have to deal with those beliefs in an intimating context.Sadly, such is often the case with a fallen human nature. As the old saying goes, "Mankind has always feared what it doesn't understand, and they hate what they fear". There's a reson that statement has been around so long: it's true. It's not politically-correct by any means, but it still holds up. Now, to make myself clear, I don't condone the mistreatment or outright abuse of others based on their religion or much of anything else, but it still happens.

As for the Muslim factor (sounds almost like the title of a spy novel, huh?), I personally believe there are essentially two groups: extremists and non-extremists. The former is probably most infamously personafied by Osama bin Laden and his followers' attacks during 9/11. The latter are simply people who wish to follow their own established religious practices, without facing harassment or prejudice. As a man and a U.S. citizen, I respect their choice to believe and live as they see fit. I don't agree with Islam, but I don't lord my opinion over their heads, either.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Great thread. It's nice to see that so many people on here aren't jackasses about my religion.

[Kitsune]

It's part of human nature to take negative experience and to try and apply them to everyone that ethnic group/religion/etc. I think it's a survival mechanism back from the days when we had to make snap judgments rather quickly... "Lion bad, lion will eat me, run away " needs to be recognized rather quickly to be affective. Most people don't realize that Islam has a long history of Co-existance with Christianity and Juedeism, a fact that many extremist Muslims have also forgotten. We see 9/11 on TV and find it much easier to think that all Muslims are bad.

It even happens inside persecuted groups that should know better. For example; on one posting board that I use to frequent one of the guys started calling me gay because my Avatar was an anthropomorphic fox.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's part of human nature to take negative experience and to try and apply them to everyone that ethnic group/religion/etc. I think it's a survival mechanism back from the days when we had to make snap judgments rather quickly... "Lion bad, lion will eat me, run away " needs to be recognized rather quickly to be affective. Most people don't realize that Islam has a long history of Co-existance with Christianity and Juedeism, a fact that many extremist Muslims have also forgotten. We see 9/11 on TV and find it much easier to think that all Muslims are bad.

It even happens inside persecuted groups that should know better. For example; on one posting board that I use to frequent one of the guys started calling me gay because my Avatar was an anthropomorphic fox.Thats what you get when you post in the retard forums.:o

[Honey Vibe]

Well, here's part of the problem you're experiencing. You have to find the balance between letting your boyfriend know which people in your circle simply cannot be trusted where he's concerned and knowing which one's are venting and aren't really a problem. Also, finding ways to tactfully express what's being said about him in those instances where you really do need to tell him (and I would hope those are the exception rather than the rule) would seem to be key.

The other part of your problem with all this is that it's sort of up to you to inform and educate these folks from your circle that have these misnomers about Islam and are holding them against your boyfriend. Take them to task for it. Make them consider and regard him as an individual and a person rather than as a stereotype or "category" based on disinformation and broad-sweeping generalizations. Otherwise they will continue to say these hurtful things causing you to either distance yourself from them or from your boyfriend. You are the one who is going to have to bring everyone together because, frankly, no one else is going to do it.

jagVery apropros, jag, though I should have clarified:

1) By "running back to him", keep in mind I contained the hurt associated with those comments within myself. It's only a matter of time before he wants to know 'how it went', making it official before my friends and family. Their stupidity left me absolutely speechless, and I had hoped the incredulity in my recount was softening enough. It was not; he really stone-walled on me.

2) As far as educating them, I am done bantering with individuals. They will just have to see in time, the same as Hussam and I.

[Honey Vibe]

The first time I saw one when when I vacationed to America,many years ago. I had heard of them from the British people I know,and I don't completely trust them. Even when America throws it's propaganda on Iraq out,it's a whole other faith. People may say they are open minded,but they are not. Would you dare to sit next to a middle eastern person on a airplane? Or ask them if they have taken a shower recently? No. I would call it honest,and natural.
Waitaminute I just realized me and him are flying out to Philadelphia together -- I'M GOING TO BE ON A PLANE NEXT TO A MUSLIM!! Hopefully all these practice sessions SLEEPING next to one has prepared me :wow:

Eh, they dress funny.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2870/abercrombiees468x318pg8.jpg

[Honey Vibe]

at least we have that one dude on lost :(
they made him a terrorist too :whatever:

[Ratcrawler]

My only true love was a hot Muslim girl with a twin sister and a racist dad. My best friend afterwards was an even hotter Muslim girl who I loved to death but didn't wanna get involved with in that way. She moved to Turkey last month :(

[kainedamo]

If anyone at all wants to help me out with anti-muslim bigots commenting on my youtube video feel free!

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=zRvWo0BXcfQ

[kainedamo]

Check out this nutball.

-R_jLRTJ9pE

[chamber-music]

The first time I saw one when when I vacationed to America,many years ago. I had heard of them from the British people I know,and I don't completely trust them. Even when America throws it's propaganda on Iraq out,it's a whole other faith. People may say they are open minded,but they are not. Would you dare to sit next to a middle eastern person on a airplane? Or ask them if they have taken a shower recently? No. I would call it honest,and natural.

I would sit next to a middle eastern person on a airplane. The actul likelihood of being on a plane with a terrorist is pretty slim. Plus if his already on the plane and you have taken off your probabley dead anyway.

Anyway since air travel security has been beefed up I doubt terrorists would currently target air flight when there are many more less difficult options.

[BAMFaly]

Check out this nutball.

-R_jLRTJ9pE

drinkingwithbob.com? I want a beer with that guy!

[Darthphere]

Check out this nutball.

-R_jLRTJ9pE

That was amazing. I mean, amazing. This guy needs his own show on Fox News. I would watch it and be amazed.

[SLVRSR4]

I think it's stupid to refrain from eating certain foods for a religion. That's all I have against Muslims. It's one of the better religions to practice in my opinion.

[Honey Vibe]

I think it's stupid to refrain from eating certain foods for a religion. That's all I have against Muslims. It's one of the better religions to practice in my opinion.
Admittedly, I miss my Applebees baby-back ribs and my margaritas :csad:

[The Senator]

they made him a terrorist too :whatever:

He was a rebellious member of the Iranian guard... he wasn't even close to being a terrorist...

[WTFimVENOM]

Im half Turkish and was in middle school right at the hight of the post-911 terrorism scare bull sh**, I was bombarded with enough arab/terrorist jokes to belive that most american kids are stupid and closed minded

[Captain_BluTac]

The first time I saw one when when I vacationed to America,many years ago. I had heard of them from the British people I know,and I don't completely trust them. Even when America throws it's propaganda on Iraq out,it's a whole other faith. People may say they are open minded,but they are not. Would you dare to sit next to a middle eastern person on a airplane? Or ask them if they have taken a shower recently? No. I would call it honest,and natural.


Buahahahahahahahahahaha, what a ****ing idiot, it doesn't matter if you sit next to someone who will blow up a plane or sit the complete opposite end, either way you're gonna die you pratt.

[Captain_BluTac]

If anyone at all wants to help me out with anti-muslim bigots commenting on my youtube video feel free!

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=zRvWo0BXcfQ

Clean your room you lazy bum!

[Superman4ever]

Honey Vibe I don't think Sayid became a terrorist.

He was a rebellious member of the Iranian guard... he wasn't even close to being a terrorist...

Rebellious Iraqi! :) It's all here! (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Sayid_Jarrah)

During Desert Storm, Sayid's base was captured by the US forces. As the only English-speaking member of his unit, he was delivered to Sergeant Major Sam Austen. Sergeant Austen utilized Sayid in interrogating his commanding officer, Tariq, to find the location of a US pilot captured by his enemies. However, Sayid successfully evaded this task out of loyalty, despite Tariq's repeated humiliations during the process. Observing his reluctance, DIA operative Kelvin Joe Inman conspired to gain Sayid's full cooperation, by showing him a video of his home village, attacked by nerve gas in an offensive that Tariq had ordered, in which his relatives had been killed. After watching, the traumatized Sayid agreed to help, not knowing what awaited him: He was given a torture kit by Inman, with which he extracted from Tariq the burial location of the pilot. At the end of the war, Sayid was transported to an isolated desert area and released by Inman and Sam Austen. Before abandoning him in the desert with a large sum of money, Inman whispered to Sayid in Arabic that he would find his new skills in torture useful some day in the future. ("One of Them")

Condemning these skills that were forced upon him, Sayid returned to the Republican Guard after being released. However, he was soon promoted to the Intelligence division, and tasked with the interrogation of rebels and military prisoners through torture. On this duty, Sayid was reunited with Nadia, his long-lost childhood love, while imprisoned, and was tasked with her interrogation, after it came to light that she had been involved with an insurgent group in the country. However, the little time they had together only gave them a chance to reconnect, and caused Sayid to question his loyalties. When the orders of his superior officer, Omar, called for her execution, Sayid found no resolution but to help her escape. In his attempt, Sayid killed Omar, who caught up with him and Nadia. As a cover story, he shot himself as well in the leg, to let Nadia escape, aided with his gun. Before escaping, Nadia begged Sayid to come with her, but he refused saying, "I can't. Desertion. They would kill my family. I don't have your courage." She left him her photo with the Arabic inscription; "You will see me in the next life, if not in this one".

I flippin' LOVE ABC, one, cause Pushing Daisies is the greatest thing EVER (!), two, they have an Arab-Muslim character who's integral to the show and isn't a bad guy. Last time that happened was Morgan Freeman's Azeem in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. :csad:

[terry78]

The extremists in every single group in the world are the ones that garner attention. The ones that don't broadcast it are so under the radar, no one gives a rat's ass, hence the viewpoint of the extremist view always being the default view. The extreme gays, the extreme blacks, the extreme women, and so on...you get the idea.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Admittedly, I miss my Applebees baby-back ribs and my margaritas :csad:How would it be "wrong" of you to eat baby back ribs but not some other kind of meat?

Religions are so retarded. :whatever:

[WTFimVENOM]

How would it be "wrong" of you to eat baby back ribs but not some other kind of meat?

Religions are so retarded. :whatever:
You know, I've always thought of you as a very accepting and open-minded person Wilhelm :yay:

[Alex The Great]

I'm all for Muslims and all the other religions. it's just the crazies that i hate. Like the Terrorist type people. i'm all for the Islma peeps. it's just the CRAZY Islam people that get me :o



I don't really care for religions....they can worship who ever the hell they want :up:

[J-Sentius]

My head hurts from the hate we get.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You know, I've always thought of you as a very accepting and open-minded person Wilhelm :yay:I'm one of the most accepting, tolerant and open-minded people that ever lived, actually.

I'm trapped in a nightmarish ocean of stupidity, blind superstition, irrational malice and preposterously unfounded arrogance...but I accept it all...unlike religious people, who actually try to make the rest of the world conform to their beliefs, I accept it, look the other way, let people live their own stupid, superstitious, foolhardy lives of bigotry and nonsense...as long as it doesn't harm me.........gay marriage can't hurt me....strip clubs can't hurt me....a woman without cloth covering up her body can't hurt me...etc.

And while people wrongly assume that they know "for-a-fact" the "ONE TRUTH" about the origin of the universe, and the presence of a God, and what that God expects of us, and why we are here, I never claim to know, "for-a-fact", truths that can't actually be known by humans, so I'm open to hearing what everyone else has to say about it.

I've been open to the idea that 4th Dimensional Reptilian Demons run the world...and open to the idea that billions have to suffer and burn in Hell because of the mistake of two people who died thousands of years ago...and to the idea of Reincarnation, and the idea that when you die, you're nothing, that's it, and that there is no God.....very open. :up:


Why, I'm even open to eating shrimp, crab and pork!...unlike some people. :eek:

[Honey Vibe]

He was a rebellious member of the Iranian guard... he wasn't even close to being a terrorist...
If a terrorist isn't terrorizing Americans, he's not a terrorist? :huh:

[Honey Vibe]

How would it be "wrong" of you to eat baby back ribs but not some other kind of meat?

Religions are so retarded. :whatever:
Historically speaking, pork is a deadly dish. Pigs will eat just about anything, making their meat the common cause of many food poisonings, infections and death. Not all cultures separate law and religion, so a spiritual law banning the consumption of pork makes sense.

Even though the causes of death are better understood, and pork can be cleaned properly today, once it's written in holy edict, many still feel [understandably] uncomfortable consuming the food on spiritual grounds.

My approach is rather cerebral, but it's not important enough to argue and cause my boyfriend discomfort. When you grow up and learn to love someone, you'll understand.

[J-Sentius]

A small fraction of the diseases that Pigs carry :

Balantidiasis. This condition is caused by the Balantidium coli (B. coli) protozoan, which is found primarily in the intestine and cecum (the cavity in which the large intestine begins) of a normal pig. When B. coli is expelled to the outside world through a pig's feces, the organisms form spherical cysts, and these latter remain infectious for long periods of time. These cysts often find their way into the water supply and may be consumed by humans, causing mild-to-severe colitis and symptoms, such as bloody, watery diarrhea, nausea, vomition, abdominal pain, anorexia, weight loss, headache, and severe loss of fluids (Animal Reservoir of Balantidium coli; Balantidium coli; Chijide; Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Brucellosis. This is a disease caused by the bacteria Brucella suis (B. suis). In pigs, brucellosis causes abortions, infertility, and joint infections, though symptoms are often absent. The disease is passed to humans through direct contact with an infected pig's tissues, bodily fluids, and aborted fetuses. For humans, it is a life-threatening disease that causes severe fever, disabling lesions of the spine, and sterility (from testicular infections). Survivors of brucellosis will require lifelong antibiotic treatment (Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Campylobacteriosis. The Campylobacter jejuni (C. jejuni) bacteria found in pig waste are a major source of enteritis (inflammation of the intestine) and diarrhea in humans. In most cases, campylobacteriosis is passed to humans when a handler of swine fails to wash his or her hands after coming into contact with a pig having diarrhea infected with the bacteria.

Three times more common than Salmonella, C. jejuni has also been associated with Guillain–Barré syndrome, a potentially fatal disease characterized by pain and paralysis that start in the legs and move upwards toward the face (Zoonotic Disease Prevention; Campylobacter jejuni; Rees).

Colibacillosis. This is a disease caused by various strains of the Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria. In pigs, it is characterized by neurological symptoms and edema (swelling) of the eyelids, neck, or belly. Transmission to humans occurs when handling infected pigs or coming into contact with their wastes or body tissues. E. coli infections in humans are potentially fatal; they cause profuse and watery diarrhea, abdominal colic, and vomition (Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Cysticercosis. This is a disease that occurs when Taenia solium (tapeworm) larvae enter the body of a person and form cysts. Transmission takes place when people swallow pork tapeworm eggs, which are found in the feces of infected individuals. Once a tapeworm egg hatches inside the stomach, worms penetrate the intestine and enter the bloodstream, where they develop cysts in the brain (causing neurocysticercosis), muscles, or eyes.

Symptoms depend on the location of the cysts. People with cysticercosis may feel lumps under their skin or experience seizures, headaches, or mental confusion. They may experience swelling of the brain, have balance problems, or suffer from blurry vision or detached retinas. This is a dangerous and potentially fatal disease that is often difficult to diagnose (Cysticercosis).

Erysipelas. This is a disease caused by the bacteria Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae. In pigs, the symptoms are high fever, infected joints, and distinctive diamond-shaped skin lesions that can be as wide as four inches across. Transmission to humans occurs through direct contact with pigs, including their waste and body tissues.

Humans with erysipelas may experience — in addition to skin lesions — damage to the heart valves and sudden death if the bacteria spread in the blood. Like pigs, humans with this disease may experience arthritic changes because of joint infections (Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Leptospirosis. This is caused by the Leptospira interrogans bacteria and is one of the most common zoonotic infections in the world. Pigs may harbor large quantities of the bacteria in their urine, and the disease is usually transferred to humans through contact with water, food, or soil that contain affected urine.

In humans, symptoms of leptospirosis often begin with fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomition. They include jaundice, red eyes, diarrhea, or a rash. In rare cases, the disease may also go into a second phase known as Weil's disease, which can lead to kidney failure, liver failure, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), or respiratory distress.

Additionally, some victims of leptospirosis also experience psychological symptoms, such as depression, and may hallucinate or become confused or aggressive. Leptospirosis can take up to several months to be treated and may lead to death in some cases (Leptospirosis; Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Trichinosis. This disease is caused by the hairlike worms Trichinella spiralis, which circulate within a pig's body. In the US, these worms are most commonly found in the country's hog-producing regions. While the worms are not usually a problem for pigs, they are very dangerous to humans who contract the disease through handling raw pig meat and eating undercooked pork and homemade pork products, such as sausage.

Pigs get the disease primarily from eating uncooked meat scraps in garbage or "table" scraps.Far from eradicated, trichinosis is reported in thousands of cases each year (up to 600 cases in Thailand alone). Some experts believe that it should be classified as an emerging (or reemerging) disease because of its widespread presence in previously unaffected areas of the world.

At its worst, trichinosis can cause myocarditis, encephalitis, meningitis, nephritis, pneumonia, and death (Arnold; Trichinosis; Zoonotic Disease Prevention).

Yersiniosis. This is a disease caused by the bacteria Yersinia enterocolitica (Y. enterocolitica). The primary route of transmission to humans is through pigs and the consumption of raw or undercooked pork products. Chitterlings (a dish of pork intestines that is popular in southern US) are especially considered risky.

Young children are more likely to contract yersiniosis than adults. They usually experience fever, abdominal pain, and bloody diarrhea. In rare cases, the disease may become more serious and include complications such as rashes, joint pains, and a spread of bacteria in the bloodstream (Yersinia enterocolitica).

According to a paper in a journal of the University of Zarka, Jordan, on the topic of swine prohibition in Islam, pigs themselves are susceptible to more than 450 diseases and are capable of transmitting 57 known parasitic diseases to humans.

Pigs are capable of transmitting a number of bacterial diseases to humans, such as tuberculosis, toxoplasmosis (which has been associated with schizophrenia), and mycoplasmosis (which may cause pneumonia). Pigs can also transmit viruses, such as the virus causing Japanese encephalitis, the Nipah virus, and the one causing the Ross River fever.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Historically speaking, pork is a deadly dish. Pigs will eat just about anything, making their meat the common cause of many food poisonings, infections and death. Not all cultures separate law and religion, so a spiritual law banning the consumption of pork makes sense.

Even though the causes of death are better understood, and pork can be cleaned properly today, once it's written in holy edict, many still feel [understandably] uncomfortable consuming the food on spiritual grounds.

My approach is rather cerebral, but it's not important enough to argue and cause my boyfriend discomfort. When you grow up and learn to love someone, you'll understand.Oh spare me. :whatever:

Millions of people eat pork every single day. And any number of "clean" foods can be dangerous depending on many factors. There is nothing wrong with eating pork.

Next, I'm grown, and love people. It really says a lot about the baseless arrogant state of mind a religious person must be in...that you make the ridiculous leap that because I think it's stupid to live one's life by rules that were put into place centuries ago, rules that are no longer needed in any way, that I'm not grown up and don't know how to LOVE. :whatever:

When I grow up, and learn to love someone...I'll agree with Islamic doctrine and think it's wise to adhere to it whether you agree or not.
That makes sense. :up:

Next, what does your boyfriend have to do with it any way?
You don't live by a religion's tenets to please someone else. You do it because they're your beliefs.
Next, why is it all about his wishes?
How about he grows up, learns how to love, and let's you live your life the way you see fit, instead of "arguing" with you if you don't conform to the letter of the stupid, antiquated law?

[J-Sentius]

Oh spare me. :whatever:

Millions of people eat pork every single day. And any number of "clean" foods can be dangerous depending on many factors. There is nothing wrong with eating pork.

Next, I'm grown, and love people. It really says a lot about the baseless arrogant state of mind a religious person must be in...that you make the ridiculous leap that because I think it's stupid to live one's life by rules that were put into place centuries ago, rules that are no longer needed in any way, that I'm not grown up and don't know how to LOVE. :whatever:

When I grow up, and learn to love someone...I'll agree with Islamic doctrine and think it's wise to adhere to it whether you agree or not.
That makes sense. :up:

Next, what does your boyfriend have to do with it any way?
You don't live by a religion's tenets to please someone else. You do it because they're your beliefs.
Next, why is it all about his wishes?
How about he grows up, learns how to love, and let's you live your life the way you see fit, instead of "arguing" with you if you don't conform to the letter of the stupid, antiquated law?


Hi There,

No one is forcing you to be religious.

The manner in which you posted that paragraph, tells me you have many questions.

PM me and I'll try my best to help answer those questions :)

[Wilhelm-Scream]

A small fraction of the diseases that Pigs carry :

Yeah, and
Roundworm Disease - transmitted by food, water and contact, so don't eat food or drink water or contact anything.

Hookworm Disease - transmitted by contact with vegetation...so don't touch vegetation.

Guinea Worm Disease - transmitted through food and water, so don't eat food or drink water.

Campylobacter - No poultry allowed

E Coli 0157:H7: Most human infections result from eating beef. It can also be acquired from consuming contaminated dairy products, vegetables, unpasteurised juice, person-to-person contact, and swimming in or drinking water contaminated with sewage.

....so don't eat beef, don't drink dairy products or fresh juice, don't touch people and don't swim.

Hepatitis A: According to the US Food and Drug Administration, cold cuts and sandwiches, fruits and fruit juices, milk and milk products, vegetables, salads, shellfish, and iced drinks are commonly implicated in outbreaks,. Water, shellfish, and salads are the most frequent sources.

So, don't eat cold cuts, sandwiches, fruit, vegetables, salads, shellfish and don't drink fruit juice, milk, water or iced drinks.



You know, I've been eating and drinking these things for 36 years and I've never had any problem. I guess Allah and Elohim and all of these other whack-a-doo fictional "leaders" of these religious cults are a little paranoid.

[Crowforge]

Not a fan of the religion, but I don't like most religions anyway. Not a fan of the culture, add to that a really bad incident in my family. I still ended up having a few arab/muslim friends so call me neutral? There's a definite edge of distrust after 9/11 but I try not to let that color my interactions with people.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Hi There,

No one is forcing you to be religious.

The manner in which you posted that paragraph, tells me you have many questions.

PM me and I'll try my best to help answer those questions :)I don't have any questions regarding the safety of eating pork. I eat it all of the time and so do millions of other people.

My only question toward Honey Vibe, is, how one can post, with a straight face, that in this life, it's either, agree with everyone's religious beliefs, OR, be immature and loveless.
That's beyond absurd.
I have loved ones who are religious, and unlike her boyfriend, they don't argue with me and try to coerce me into living my life a certain way. I LOVE them for that.

But most of my loved ones agree with me, that religions are stupid...and that the world would be a better place if everyone would wake up and realize that they're all false constructions of men who want to dominate other people, through fear.

And religious beliefs are forced on us all of the time...bans on Gay Marriage, stores closing down on Sundays, people trying to make my favorite kinds of movies, literature and art illegal because they don't like them and think the big imaginary friend in the sky said they were bad...

AND, the biggest reason I'm not forced into a religion is because I live in America. Go to Afghanistan. Go to Iran. Go to Saudi Arabia where the Morality Police stood by the exit of a building that was burning down, to beat the women who were trying to escape because they weren't sufficiently covered up to be on the street........where a woman who doesn't share their religious beliefs will be arrested or worse for sitting at a table and having coffee with a man.

Just because I'm not forced to live by a religion, it doesn't mean that no one else is.


When I was a kid, I lived in Salt Lake City, Utah and I became friends with these 3 brothers I met at school.
Their family was very odd, and it turned out that it was because their dad was a polygamist, living in hiding, forcing them all to take different names and to come straight home after school, and never to have friends over.
Every week he lined them up and beat them for their sins.
Once he gave his eldest daughter a concussion.
He beat my friends up because they went to see the movie "Time Bandits".
It was all in the name of Holy Religion.
Plenty of people are forced to adhere to religious teachings, even in America.
They're the family members of religious zealots.

[J-Sentius]

Wall of text was unnecessary.

You have so many prejudices, as a human being you will naturally feel afraid of what you don't understand, hence the way and volume of how you choose to illustrate your feelings.

Unless you come down to earth, everything you say will be useless.


P.S

Beef disease you listed for instance, is only so when the animal isn't slaughtered properly, the blood must fully be drawn out, Muslim and Jewish method do this by default , so these diseases will never affect them.

[jaguarr]

Wall of text was unnecessary.

You have so many prejudices, as a human being you will naturally feel afraid of what you don't understand, hence the way and volume of how you choose to illustrate your feelings.

Unless you come down to earth, everything you say will be useless.


P.S

Beef disease you listed for instance, is only so when the animal isn't slaughtered properly, the blood must fully be drawn out, Muslim and Jewish method do this by default , so these diseases will never affect them.

Did you even read anything he wrote? :huh: Your response doesn't fit what Wilhelm was saying at all. :huh:

:huh:

:huh:

:huh:

:huh:

jag

[knowsbleed]

He beat my friends up because they went to see the movie "Time Bandits".


If there was ever a movie worth taking a beating over... its damn sure is Time Bandits. :up:

[raybia]

Muslims believe the Quran is the literal word of G-d. The Quran states, among other things, not to eat pork mostly for health reasons. So those who believe and accept this guidance, we hear and we obey.

We are also are instructed not to consume anything that would be unhealthy.

Anyone who is critically of this, which is beyond me why you would be, I guess is your hangup.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Wall of text was unnecessary.Okay, saying that my post was "unnecessary" is silly.

1) Nothing here is "necessary".
2) It was not a "Wall of Text". It was me, expressing how I feel about the topic and responding to you. I know it's easier for a religious person to be brief, because they're actually commanded to shut down their minds and blindly believe. Their feelings and thoughts can be reduced down easily to something that's very brief. "The ancient, barbaric, misogynistic "Holy" book that I prefer, is 100% correct in anything, no matter what you say, no matter what Science says."
Allāhu Akbar!
Hallelujah!
Praise de Lawd!
Whichever


You have so many prejudices, as a human being you will naturally feel afraid of what you don't understand, hence the way and volume of how you choose to illustrate your feelings.
1) I'm not "afraid" of religion. I think it's false and a stupid waste of one's life. I think Baseball is stupid too. That doesn't mean I'm afraid of Baseball.

2) My post wasn't even very long, and I don't understand where you're getting this idea that the number of words I used to express myself, and the words I chose, are somehow linked to my "fear" based on prejudice when I'm not even afraid, nor am I prejudiced.

3) Do you even know what a "prejudice" is?


preconceived judgment or opinion
an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

You clearly don't know, because:



I don't have a preconceived judgment about religion. I've arrived at a judgment on religion. Religion has been with us since the dawn of man. You can clearly test it by the fruit it's born. No preconceptions necessary.
I have an adverse opinion/leaning...but it is not formed without just grounds and I have all the knowledge of religion I need to know that it's nonsensical at best, one of the greatest tragedies of human history at worst.
Any attitude of hostility I have is not irrational.



Do you know what would be "irrational" ?
How about, if someone drew a mean cartoon about someone I revered, and I killed them over it?
How about if I chopped off the head of anyone who didn't agree that my Big Imaginary Friend is real and in charge?
How about making women cover up their entire bodies so Idon't have dirty thoughts? And beating them or worse if they don't comply?

How about thinking that perfect justice is to punish billions of people for the crimes of two people?
How about, thinking that there are invisible creatures around us, making us do bad things?
I could go on all day about how irrational religion is.
I believe in rationality.

Unless you come down to earth, everything you say will be useless.Hahahaha....sorry, fellow...if you put a religious person, who talks to imaginary friends, and sees "miracles" everywhere, and thinks the creator of the universe is up above, watching us, and getting SO mad when we masturbate, or tell a white lie, or find a girl attractive,...up against the wall, and ME up against the wall....I will be the one who is standing on Earth, and who is not spewing "useless" words.


P.S

Beef disease you listed for instance, is only so when the animal isn't slaughtered properly, the blood must fully be drawn out, Muslim and Jewish method do this by default , so these diseases will never affect them.P.S. Nonsense. There are many diseases that have nothing to do with how the blood is drawn. And it's irrelevant. What about all of the POSSIBILITIES of disease in vegetables, and water, and any food, if prepared incorrectly? And in contact with other people?

Did Allah have the forethought to forbid the use of mass transit public transportation?

I fso many mosquitoes spread disease, we obviously can't kill them all. Why doesn't he? If he doesn't, it means that he wants disease to spread....unless, he lacks the power to prevent it all. Hmmm...

[raybia]

You know, I've been eating and drinking these things for 36 years and I've never had any problem. I guess Allah and Elohim and all of these other whack-a-doo fictional "leaders" of these religious cults are a little paranoid.


That great that you haven't had any problems in eating pork and anything else.

However, you are not Muslim so you wouldn't prohibit yourself from eating pork.

Muslims, on the other hand do. We willfully choose to not eat pork, but G-d on the other doesn't limit us from just that. We are instructed to not eat anything that that would be harmful. G-d doesn't give us a list of all of the things we shouldn't eat, we have to use our discretion. So some of the things you mentioned should also be avoided if in truth they are harmful for consumption.

By the way Muslims don't believe Allah (which is an arabic word for G-d, not just the Muslim G-d but also the same G-d of Christians, Jews, and the G-d of all Creation), is paranoid. We believe and reason that he has provided guidance for all of mankind for our physical, mental, moral, spiritual well-being which we accept and try to implement into our lives.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

(which is an arabic word for G-d, not just the Muslim G-d but also the same G-d of Christians, Jews, and the G-d of all Creation)I'm sure we've talked about this before, but no...it is not the same God.

The God of the Christians, according to them, says that Jesus is his Son, and that the ONLY way to salvation is to believe that Jesus's sacrifice on the cross is all the payment required for one's sins.

Most of them believe in the "Trinity", meaning that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, are 3 manifestations of the one true God. The Islamic God does not say that Jesus is God...or that Jesus was God made flesh, sent to redeem the world by shedding his blood.

And if Jews and Muslims worship the same God, why do they want to wipe each other off of the map with religious motivation and justification.


The 3 different Gods may have the same mythical point of origin, but they are not the same entity at all.


...in much the same way that Charles Manson and David Koresh would tell you that they worship Jesus Christ, but a Christian would say that it's a misappropriation of their God's name, via Satanic deception.

Mormons say that they worship Jesus...but their "Jesus" is just the son of one God of millions of Gods, and he's the BROTHER of Lucifer.

The Born Again Christian "Jesus" is God, and the Son of the only God that exists, and far from being the brother of Lucifer, he CREATED Lucifer, as a servant, who then rebelled and will be destroyed.

Same names...VERY different entities.
That's like comparing Thor from Marvel comics to the god Thor that was actually worshipped by the settlers of Iceland in ancient times.

[Mr Sparkle]

Muslims, on the other hand do. We willfully choose to not eat pork, but G-d on the other doesn't limit us from just that. We are instructed to not eat anything that that would be harmful.

the Honey Vibe's BF should not be upset since modern preparation of pork allows safety.
I mean, spinach was pretty dangerous about a year ago, so maybe he could focus on spinach for a while?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

It's so obviously not "Divine Law" but instead a law that came about because of human observation of troubles connected to the improper, ignorant preparation of the food. :o

[jaguarr]

the Honey Vibe's BF should not be upset since modern preparation of pork allows safety.
I mean, spinach was pretty dangerous about a year ago, so maybe he could focus on spinach for a while?

Tomatoes and cilantro are kind of dangerous right now.

jag

[raybia]

I'm sure we've talked about this before, but no...it is not the same God.

The God of the Christians, according to them, says that Jesus is his Son, and that the ONLY way to salvation is to believe that Jesus's sacrifice on the cross is all the payment required for one's sins.

Most of them believe in the "Trinity", meaning that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, are 3 manifestations of the one true God. The Islamic God does not say that Jesus is God...or that Jesus was God made flesh, sent to redeem the world by shedding his blood.

And if Jews and Muslims worship the same God, why do they want to wipe each other off of the map with religious motivation and justification.


The 3 different Gods may have the same mythical point of origin, but they are not the same entity at all.


...in much the same way that Charles Manson and David Koresh would tell you that they worship Jesus Christ, but a Christian would say that it's a misappropriation of their God's name, via Satanic deception.

Mormons say that they worship Jesus...but their "Jesus" is just the son of one God of millions of Gods, and he's the BROTHER of Lucifer.

The Born Again Christian "Jesus" is God, and the Son of the only God that exists, and far from being the brother of Lucifer, he CREATED Lucifer, as a servant, who then rebelled and will be destroyed.

Same names...VERY different entities.
That's like comparing Thor from Marvel comics to the god Thor that was actually worshipped by the settlers of Iceland in ancient times.


Let me put it this way:

The Quran teaches us, as Muslims, that Our G-d and the G-d of the Christians and Jews are one and the same regardless that they, especially Christians, have some different concepts of G-d than what the Quran teaches.

Our scripture teaches us that we worship the same G-d of Abraham and that our religion is the same one that Abraham followed in its essence: a way of life that is in total submission and obdience to the will of G-d.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims consider Abraham our father and we are his brethren and while we have our differences and conflicts, we all try to worship G-d to the best of our abilities and we pray that we will come to see ourselves and all of humanity as one family and act accordingly.

[Mr Sparkle]

Tomatoes and cilantro are kind of dangerous right now.

jag

Oh Jesus no!! in Mexico we exchange those for goods and services, they are not unlike currency.

it's back to seashells for us then :csad:

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Tomatoes and cilantro are kind of dangerous right now.

jagAnd the many dangers of beef have nothing to do with letting it's blood.
Prions can survive being incinerated and buried in the ground for years.

[raybia]

the Honey Vibe's BF should not be upset since modern preparation of pork allows safety.
I mean, spinach was pretty dangerous about a year ago, so maybe he could focus on spinach for a while?

I don't think Muslims are missing out on anything by not eating pork. G-d tells us we should eat it so those who accept that we hear and we obey.

As far as Honey Vibe's BF is concern, there is nothing to get upset about. If he chooses not to eat pork then don't eat it, but for those who do want and choose to eat it then that is there right which I wholly support.

[Mr Sparkle]

I don't think Muslims are missing out on anything by not eating pork. As far as Honey Vibe's BF is concern, there is nothing to get upset about. If he chooses not to eat pork then don't eat it, but for those who do want and choose to eat it then that is there right which I wholly support.

the fact that bothers me is not whether or not HE chooses to eat something or not.
it's that HER choice bothers him and this in turn MAKES her not eat what she would choose to eat.

[kainedamo]

I like bacon. I mean, it's not a BIG deal, it's just a taste. There are meats that are better for you. *shrug*

[jaguarr]

Oh Jesus no!! in Mexico we exchange those for goods and services, they are not unlike currency.

it's back to seashells for us then :csad:

Find a good conch shell for me, a nice large size with no chips in it, and there's a fiver in it for you, Paco. :up:

jag

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Let me put it this way:

The Quran teaches us, as Muslims, that Our G-d and the G-d of the Christians and Jews are one and the same regardless that they, especially Christians, have some different concepts of G-d than what the Quran teaches.

Our scripture teaches us that we worship the same G-d of Abraham and that our religion is the same one that Abraham followed in its essence: a way of life that is in total submission and obdience to the will of G-d.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims consider Abraham our father and we are his brethren and while we have our differences and conflicts, we all try to worship G-d to the best of our abilities and we pray that we will come to see ourselves and all of humanity as one family and act accordingly.But this is always amusing when I hear it...because all you're saying, in a more polite and artificially "enlightened" way, is....just what all religions say.

My God is the real God. My God has authority over all the world whether you know it/like it or not. And a Christian, like Movefan, wouldn't even be as charitable as that. He'd flat out say that Islam is a Satanic deception, masquerading as the same God's will.
You CAN'T be worshipping the same Gods.

You're just saying that there is one God and Christians and Jews are wrong about him. That doesn't mean that they're all worshipping the same God at all.


Like, imagine there's a greasy biker hit man...a serial rapist...and you, and you're all friends with Stacy.

BUT, Stacy sells babies to pedophiles in the underground market, and moves heroin on the side...but you know her from work, where, she seems to be a very nice lady.

The biker can say "I love Stacy. She always provides me with quality heroin!", the rapist can say, "I love Stacy. She always delivers adorable toddler sex slaves very discreetly."....and you can say, "I love Stacy. She's so outgoing and has a great sense of humor and does a great job at work!"


You're not all friends with the same Stacy, even though you all say, "I'm friends with Stacy."

[jaguarr]

Damn, that Stacy is a dirty *****!

jag

[Mr Sparkle]

Find a good conch shell for me, a nice large size with no chips in it, and there's a fiver in it for you, Paco. :up:

jag

that's Pancho see-ñor.:csad:

[Badger]

Quick question Wil, how many words to you type a minute (ballpark)?

[raybia]

the fact that bothers me is not whether or not HE chooses to eat something or not.
it's that HER choice bothers him and this in turn MAKES her not eat what she would choose to eat.

Then he is wrong and out of line. She should tell him to get over it or kick him to the curb.

She should also tell him that his own Holy Book says, "There is no compulsion in religion" so she is not breaking any law since she is not Muslim however he is by trying to force her to live by his beliefs. Also even if she was a Muslim who chose to eat pork, he cannot not force her not to. There is a reason why G-d gave each of us a free will and it was not for the reason to have it controlled by small minded boyfriends.

Its Muslims like that who don't know or understand their religion that gives Islam a bad name.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Damn, that Stacy is a dirty *****!

jagBut she keeps a very neat, organized desk.

[jaguarr]

that's Pancho see-ñor.:csad:

Paco...Pancho....whatev. Un mas cerveza while you're at it, too. :up:

jag

[raybia]

But this is always amusing when I hear it...because all you're saying, in a more polite and artificially "enlightened" way, is....just what all religions say.

My God is the real God. My God has authority over all the world whether you know it/like it or not. And a Christian, like Movefan, wouldn't even be as charitable as that. He'd flat out say that Islam is a Satanic deception, masquerading as the same God's will.
You CAN'T be worshipping the same Gods.

You have it all wrong. I'm not saying my G-d is the real G-d, I'm saying that C, M, & J all worship the real G-d however we have varying perceptions of G-d. As a Muslim a believe and accept the Quranic description of G-d and a Christian is going to believe and accept the description of G-d that there denomination teaches, and I feel no need to berate that view and believe, to each their own.

Now if someone like Movefan feels that way, it still doesn't change the fact I believe as my Holy Book teaches that we all worship the same G-d. (A rose by any other name is still a rose.)


You're just saying that there is one God and Christians and Jews are wrong about him. That doesn't mean that they're all worshipping the same God at all.






Actually its my understanding that Jews and Christians also believe in one G-d. Christians believe that G-d is one but consist of three parts. From the Islamic perspective we are all worshiping the same G-d. Now the Christian and Jewish perspectives may not accept that but thats ok because I'm not Christian or Jewish.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Quick question Wil, how many words to you type a minute (ballpark)?No idea but it's not a lot because I type with 2 index fingers and a thumb. I know where all the keys are, so I'm a faster 2-Fingered typist...but I never bothered to get used to using all fingers...which is odd as I easily play very fast, intricate guitar parts with all the fingers on my left hand and three on my right...but typing....2 Fingers. :huh:

[jaguarr]

Then he is wrong and out of line. She should tell him to get over it or kick him to the curb.

She should also tell him that his own Holy Book says, "There is no compulsion in religion" so she is not breaking any law since she is not Muslim however he is by trying to force her to live by his beliefs. Also even if she was a Muslim who chose to eat pork, he cannot not force her not to. There is a reason why G-d gave each of us a free will and it was not for the reason to have it controlled by small minded boyfriends.

Its Muslims like that who don't know or understand their religion that gives Islam a bad name.

I think you've really hit on the spirit of what I BELIEVE I'm hearing a lot of people say in this thread, raybia, and that is that the pushing of one's religious beliefs on another is really a primary point of contention. I don't think anyone here would deny another the right to believe what they want to believe, so long as they don't push it on other people (which Wilhelm pointed out is a problem in society on multiple levels), no matter how much they might disagree with that person's beliefs. Where it becomes a problem is when people use it to try and control another's behavior and try to force them to live by beliefs that are not their own, as you pointed out is the case with Honey V's boyfriend. Like you, I'd also have some issues with someone trying to make me live by the doctrine of their religion if I didn't practice the same beliefs as them.

jag

[jaguarr]

Then he is wrong and out of line. She should tell him to get over it or kick him to the curb.

She should also tell him that his own Holy Book says, "There is no compulsion in religion" so she is not breaking any law since she is not Muslim however he is by trying to force her to live by his beliefs. Also even if she was a Muslim who chose to eat pork, he cannot not force her not to. There is a reason why G-d gave each of us a free will and it was not for the reason to have it controlled by small minded boyfriends.

Its Muslims like that who don't know or understand their religion that gives Islam a bad name.

I think you've really hit on the spirit of what I BELIEVE I'm hearing a lot of people say in this thread, raybia, and that is that the pushing of one's religious beliefs on another is really a primary point of contention. I don't think anyone here would deny another the right to believe what they want to believe, so long as they don't push it on other people (which Wilhelm pointed out is a problem in society on multiple levels), no matter how much they might disagree with that person's beliefs. Where it becomes a problem is when people use it to try and control another's behavior and try to force them to live by beliefs that are not their own, as you pointed out is the case with Honey V's boyfriend. Like you, I'd also have some issues with someone trying to make me live by the doctrine of their religion if I didn't practice the same beliefs as them.

jag

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Actually its my understanding that Jews and Christians also believe in one G-d. Christians believe that G-d is one but consist of three parts. From the Islamic perspective we are all worshiping the same G-d. Now the Christian and Jewish perspectives may not accept that but thats ok because I'm not Christian or Jewish. Dude!
First of all, you are saying that your God is real. :huh:
Are you saying that he's not...or that you're not sure he's real?
Of course you are saying that your God is real.

Next, if God is real, surely you don't think he's a liar.
He's not going to tell Avram one thing, and then completely contradict it for Chuck.
God is not like Batman or Planet of the Apes, where you can just enjoy a whole re-imagining or re-working of him.
If he's Lord of the Universe, he's right about everything and humans are supposed to conform to his will, not the other way around.
He's either a real entity, or a fictional invention of humans.


It's not just that Jews, Muslims and Christians have different beliefs...it's that their GODS have expressed their wills, and it's different for each group.

There's a shared origin, but once the three groups split off, with the advent of Jesus saying he was the Messiah especially....they're totally not the same God. Shared mythical origin, shared name...not the same person speaking to his "creation".

[raybia]

I think you've really hit on the spirit of what I BELIEVE I'm hearing a lot of people say in this thread, raybia, and that is that the pushing of one's religious beliefs on another is really a primary point of contention. I don't think anyone here would deny another the right to believe what they want to believe, so long as they don't push it on other people (which Wilhelm pointed out is a problem in society on multiple levels), no matter how much they might disagree with that person's beliefs. Where it becomes a problem is when people use it to try and control another's behavior and try to force them to live by beliefs that are not their own, as you pointed out is the case with Honey V's boyfriend. Like you, I'd also have some issues with someone trying to make me live by the doctrine of their religion if I didn't practice the same beliefs as them.

jag


Totally agree!

[Wilhelm-Scream]

All the sane ones agree.

[raybia]

Dude!
First of all, you are saying that your God is real. :huh:
Are you saying that he's not...or that you're not sure he's real?
Of course you are saying that your God is real.

Next, if God is real, surely you don't think he's a liar.
He's not going to tell Avram one thing, and then completely contradict it for Chuck.
God is not like Batman or Planet of the Apes, where you can just enjoy a whole re-imagining or re-working of him.
If he's Lord of the Universe, he's right about everything and humans are supposed to conform to his will, not the other way around.
He's either a real entity, or a fictional invention of humans.


It's not just that Jews, Muslims and Christians have different beliefs...it's that their GODS have expressed their wills, and it's different for each group.

There's a shared origin, but once the three groups split off, with the advent of Jesus saying he was the Messiah especially....they're totally not the same God. Shared mythical origin, shared name...not the same person speaking to his "creation".

Dude of course I believe G-d is real, just like Christians and Jews believe he is real too!

Do I accept the Christian concept of G-d? NO. Do Christians believe in the Muslim concept of G-D? Most do not however there is I believe demonation that do not accept the Trinitarian belief.

However just because I don't accept different concepts of G-d than what my scripture teaches doesn't mean I going to deny Christian and Jews of G-d.

G-d doesn't exclusive belong to anyone people or group. G-d is G-d for all people and for the whole of Creation regardless of their belief in G-d or disbelief, nor of our various perceptions of G-d as off based as they may be.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Right, but you're saying that they all worship the same God.
If there is a God, he's the God of the universe, but that doesn't mean that I worship him, and it also doesn't mean that just because I call my God "Zeus", I'm worshipping the same God the ancient Greeks worshiped.

The problem is that there is no visible God. He does not talk to people. For all anyone knows, he doesn't even exist. It's all based on stories told by men from thousands of years ago.
So all anyone has of "God", is the concept...their "conception" of God.
So, if a Christian's conception of God contradicts your conception of God TO the point that you wouldn't call yourself a Christian and "do not accept their conception"....it's. not. the. same. God.

[raybia]

Right, but you're saying that they all worship the same God.
If there is a God, he's the God of the universe, but that doesn't mean that I worship him, and it also doesn't mean that just because I call my God "Zeus", I'm worshipping the same God the ancient Greeks worshiped.

The problem is that there is no visible God. He does not talk to people. For all anyone knows, he doesn't even exist. It's all based on stories told by men from thousands of years ago.
So all anyone has of "God", is the concept...their "conception" of God.
So, if a Christian's conception of God contradicts your conception of God TO the point that you wouldn't call yourself a Christian and "do not accept their conception"....it's. not. the. same. God.

I think I understand your train of logic.

I will put it like this. Islam teaches that all people have the same G-d. You may see him in the different lights, you may even deny his existence but regardless all people have the same G-d.

Its like denying something that is true. Just because Luke Skywalker denied that Darth Vader was his father didn't make it true. He was his dad regardless of what Luke believed.

According to my religion we all have the same G-d even though we all don't worship the same concept of G-d or don't even worship G-d at all or believe in his existence.

Now for those who say that, "Well that view of your religion is wrong and in fact your whole religion is false as well as your belief and concept of G-d" well I can peacefully live with that.

My beliefs don't require others who also believe in what I believe. And the Quran doesn't need believers nor does G-d. He will still be G-d even if all of mankind denies his existence. Of course thats my belief.

[Superman4ever]

^^ ditto that!

[Wilhelm-Scream]

My beliefs don't require others who also believe in what I believe. And the Quran doesn't need believers nor does G-d. He will still be G-d even if all of mankind denies his existence. Of course thats my belief.But Allah will make Islam dominate all others.


[61:9]
He has sent His messenger* with the guidance and the true religion, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

[raybia]

But Allah will make Islam dominate all others.


[61:9]
He has sent His messenger* with the guidance and the true religion, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

The translation of the arabic word for "true religion" is incorrect along with the translation of the arabic word for "dominate."

The transliteration of this verse in Arabic is as follows:

"Huswal-adhee arsala Rasuulahuu bil-hudaa wa deen il-haqqi leyuzhirahuu alad-deeni kullihee wa law karihal-mushrikuun.

The interpretation of this from "The Message of the Quran" by Muhammad Asad is given as, "He (G-d) it is who has sent forth His messenger and the religion of truth, to the end that He make it prevail over all religion, however hateful this may be to those who ascribe divinity to aught but G-d."

Deen il-haqq means "religion of truth" which is different from “true religion.”

Does the Quran consider Islam a religion of truth? Of course it does, but this doesn’t deny Christianity or Judaism from also containing truth. When considering the entire context of the verse it is clear that it is referencing not the religion of the Christians or Jews but the religion of idol worshippers and any religion built on falsehood.

To further strengthen this position was that from a historical standpoint, this verse was revealed to Mohammed the Prophet (phuh) while the Meccan leadership (who was the ones promoting and benefiting from idol worship) was trying to extinguish the fledging Muslim community from existence.

The Arabic word, “leyuzhirahuu” does not mean "dominate" it means “in order to warn” which comes from the Arabic root word “Nadhara” which has among its meaning, “to warn, admonish, and caution".

So this verse is talking about Muhammad being presented with truth and offer it to the common people as an approach to warning them of the dangers of falsehood being spread and establish by the Meccan leaders. Truth does prevail over falsehood the same way that light removes darkness.

In addition to further support that this verse is not talking about Islam dominating Christianity or Judasim is the following verses from the Qur’an.

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).


"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).


"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran doesn't call to wipe out Christians and Jews but calls for a peaceful co-existence based on faith in G-d and the doing of good.

Another point of view from the debate of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same G-d from a Christian theologian.

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3072

[Midnyte_Sun]

They make great döner kabobs.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/4/7/7/f_donerm_9b28b54.jpg

[Midnyte_Sun]

double post*

[raybia]

double post*

29 minutes apart?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The translation of the arabic word for "true religion" is incorrect along with the translation of the arabic word for "dominate."

The transliteration of this verse in Arabic is as follows:

"Huswal-adhee arsala Rasuulahuu bil-hudaa wa deen il-haqqi leyuzhirahuu alad-deeni kullihee wa law karihal-mushrikuun.

The interpretation of this from "The Message of the Quran" by Muhammad Asad is given as, "He (G-d) it is who has sent forth His messenger and the religion of truth, to the end that He make it prevail over all religion, however hateful this may be to those who ascribe divinity to aught but G-d."

Deen il-haqq means "religion of truth" which is different from “true religion.”

Does the Quran consider Islam a religion of truth? Of course it does, but this doesn’t deny Christianity or Judaism from also containing truth. When considering the entire context of the verse it is clear that it is referencing not the religion of the Christians or Jews but the religion of idol worshippers and any religion built on falsehood.

To further strengthen this position was that from a historical standpoint, this verse was revealed to Mohammed the Prophet (phuh) while the Meccan leadership (who was the ones promoting and benefiting from idol worship) was trying to extinguish the fledging Muslim community from existence.

The Arabic word, “leyuzhirahuu” does not mean "dominate" it means “in order to warn” which comes from the Arabic root word “Nadhara” which has among its meaning, “to warn, admonish, and caution".

So this verse is talking about Muhammad being presented with truth and offer it to the common people as an approach to warning them of the dangers of falsehood being spread and establish by the Meccan leaders. Truth does prevail over falsehood the same way that light removes darkness.

In addition to further support that this verse is not talking about Islam dominating Christianity or Judasim is the following verses from the Qur’an.

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).


"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).


"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran doesn't call to wipe out Christians and Jews but calls for a peaceful co-existence based on faith in G-d and the doing of good.

Another point of view from the debate of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same G-d from a Christian theologian.

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3072


Well, what I gave is the translation they'll give you in Saudi Arabia. What do I know about it. But I'm still puzzled as to why the all-powerful creator of the world never can seem to clearly get his message across, and preserve it from being twisted or misunderstood by lowly men. :huh:

It's well-known that tons of the world's Muslims interpret the scripture so that it calls for violently ridding the world of anyone but Muslims. You guys should really get together and straighten all of that out...because you tell me quite authoritatively "That translation is wrong."...so why don't people let the violent Muslims in on this if it's indisputable?


Also, some of those verses about Christians are really nice. they still contradict the teachings of Biblical Christianity, so again, not the same God...but it is so rare that you hear these passages that promote peace. :up:

Also

[raybia]

Well, what I gave is the translation they'll give you in Saudi Arabia. What do I know about it.

I know you were only using the translation that the Muslim leadership is offering to the public and I blame them for much of the misunderstanding that both Muslims and non-Muslims have of the Quran and the religion as a whole. These sometime awful translations are produced mostly by Muslim leadership by scholars in the Eastern hemisphere and there is a dire need for a better translation done by the Muslim community in the West that better captures the meaning of the Arabic words and grammer.

But I'm still puzzled as to why the all-powerful creator of the world never can seem to clearly get his message across, and preserve it from being twisted or misunderstood by lowly men. :huh:

That is a whole new conversation. Maybe we will have at sometime.

It's well-known that tons of the world's Muslims interpret the scripture so that it calls for violently ridding the world of anyone but Muslims. You guys should really get together and straighten all of that out...because you tell me quite authoritatively "That translation is wrong."...so why don't people let the violent Muslims in on this if it's indisputable?

You make a great and valid point here. But those violent and radical Muslims that are out there don't represent me nor do I represent them. I would have no better chance of entering a dialogue with them than you. I tell you this, I don't consider them my brothers and sisters in faith based on their apparent misunderstanding of what I know to be Islam proper.


Also, some of those verses about Christians are really nice. they still contradict the teachings of Biblical Christianity, so again, not the same God...but it is so rare that you hear these passages that promote peace. :up:

Also

Yes they are, I hope the religion community can begin actually demonstrating it on a wide scale basis. The good news though is that interfaith dialogue and working together is happening here in America. I recently attended a joint function that was sponsored by the Muslim community headed by Imam W. Deen Mohammed and the Focolare, a Catholic based organization in Chicago Il. It was really a nice event that had food, games, presentations and skits by both Muslim and Catholic children and families.

[michephantom]

Muslims go great on salad. Salty and crispy. Mmmmmm.

[raybia]

Muslims go great on salad. Salty and crispy. Mmmmmm.

9 for originality

4 for humor...ok maybe a 6 :cwink:

[Superman4ever]

But Allah will make Islam dominate all others.


[61:9]
He has sent His messenger* with the guidance and the true religion, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

Firstly try using an appropriate translation:

9. It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation61.php)

As Muslims we don't see Islam as separate from Judaism or Christianity. It's suppose to be seen as one. Just the final plea of G-d to man. Submission to the will of Allah (or G-d), this is Islam (and it comes, as we view it, in MANY different names Baptist, Catholics, Jewish). Many of the rules are the same, the Qur'an talks about this. However, as we see it some parts have been added by man to the bible. For instance there are parts of the Bible that state G-d is NOT a man and not the son of man which are a contradiction to the idea of the Trinity.

Numbers 23:19-20 (King James Version)
King James Version

19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

20Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.


Christ said it many times in the Bible that God is ONE.


28 And there came one of the scribes that had heard them reasoning together, and seeing that he had answered them well, asked him which was the first commandment of all. 29 And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God. 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength.

Another example is the concept of Original Sin (which by many people is seen as an advent by the catholic church). There is no such thing in Islam, and from other debates with my Jewish friends "Original Sin" is NOT accepted, taught or condoned either. We are taught that Man and Woman are created equal and born INNOCENT. And that NO sin is transferable...you are responsible for your own actions (this falls in with the concept of Free Will as well). If you stray from the will of G-d, or the "straight path" you have only yourself to blame. People can pray for you and ask for G-d to forgive you or show you the light (path, to guide you...blah blah), but ultimately YOU need to do conduct your own repentance.

To be a Muslim all you need to do is follow the will of G-d...that's all that means. Abraham, Adam/Eve, Moses, Jesus, David, Joseph, Noah, Mary [whoever you want to add] are Muslims. All the verse that you quoted says is that truth shall prevail. It's NOT saying that Islam will dominate the world by force or by any other means other than having his word be "seen."

As for why god doesn't stop humans from corrupting his word is to also ask why god allows free will? You can't have it both ways. And the question is impossible to answer. You can't presume to tell me what I, as a person or entity other than yourself, may or may not do, think or will; so how can we answer a question about what G-d should do?

To add to that Muhammad's main miracle is the Word of G-d, The Qur'an. It basically came straight from G-d to Muhammad and was constructed fully in 22 years (the time that Prophet Muhammad received the Word to his death, 610 to 632 C.E.) And as such, it's been proven that it hasn't been changed or added too. You can visit Museums in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and compare today's printing of the Qur'an (in Arabic of course) with that of the oldest Qur'an's and verify for yourself that every word remains as Muhammad was instructed. This is a challenge that many historian have verified as truth. So, there can be NO claim that justifies that the Qur'an has been changed, altered or added to. So, to us, it's seen as the purest version of God's will and word. If you (this is a general "you" and not you you per se...ANY ONE) choose to believe that, fine, if you chose not too, fine.

I've babbled long enough, if any of that doesn't make any sense...I'm at school and kinda pressed for time...but just ask and I can clarify my thoughts.

This is a good video that might interest you Will:

UJhPaSXVrKI

[raybia]

Firstly try using an appropriate translation:



As Muslims we don't see Islam as separate from Judaism or Christianity. It's suppose to be seen as one. Just the final plea of G-d to man. Submission to the will of Allah (or G-d), this is Islam (and it comes, as we view it, in MANY different names Baptist, Catholics, Jewish). Many of the rules are the same, the Qur'an talks about this. However, as we see it some parts have been added by man to the bible. For instance there are parts of the Bible that state G-d is NOT a man and not the son of man which are a contradiction to the idea of the Trinity.



Christ said it many times in the Bible that God is ONE.



Another example is the concept of Original Sin (which by many people is seen as an advent by the catholic church). There is no such thing in Islam, and from other debates with my Jewish friends "Original Sin" is NOT accepted, taught or condoned either. We are taught that Man and Woman are created equal and born INNOCENT. And that NO sin is transferable...you are responsible for your own actions (this falls in with the concept of Free Will as well). If you stray from the will of G-d, or the "straight path" you have only yourself to blame. People can pray for you and ask for G-d to forgive you or show you the light (path, to guide you...blah blah), but ultimately YOU need to do conduct your own repentance.

To be a Muslim all you need to do is follow the will of G-d...that's all that means. Abraham, Adam/Eve, Moses, Jesus, David, Joseph, Noah, Mary [whoever you want to add] are Muslims. All the verse that you quoted says is that truth shall prevail. It's NOT saying that Islam will dominate the world by force or by any other means other than having his word be "seen."

As for why god doesn't stop humans from corrupting his word is to also ask why god allows free will? You can't have it both ways. And the question is impossible to answer. You can't presume to tell me what I, as a person or entity other than yourself, may or may not do, think or will; so how can we answer a question about what G-d should do?

To add to that Muhammad's main miracle is the Word of G-d, The Qur'an. It basically came straight from G-d to Muhammad and was constructed fully in 22 years (the time that Prophet Muhammad received the Word to his death, 610 to 632 C.E.) And as such, it's been proven that it hasn't been changed or added too. You can visit Museums in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and compare today's printing of the Qur'an (in Arabic of course) with that of the oldest Qur'an's and verify for yourself that every word remains as Muhammad was instructed. This is a challenge that many historian have verified as truth. So, there can be NO claim that justifies that the Qur'an has been changed, altered or added to. So, to us, it's seen as the purest version of God's will and word. If you (this is a general "you" and not you you per se...ANY ONE) choose to believe that, fine, if you chose not too, fine.

I've babbled long enough, if any of that doesn't make any sense...I'm at school and kinda pressed for time...but just ask and I can clarify my thoughts.

This is a good video that might interest you Will:

UJhPaSXVrKI


Great post Supes! :yay:

[J-Sentius]

@ Superman4Ever and Raybia

May Allah reward you.

Look at the one I made
Official Islamic Thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261564)

Tell me, about my approach through out the whole thread. It's over 1200 posts, of just me against everyone with prejudices lol.

That's why I didn't even bother with this wilhelm guy.

[Crowforge]

We'd all be better off without any religion.

[Colossal Spoons]

But we'd all be better off with some level of spirituality :)

[jaguarr]

But we'd all be better off with some level of spirituality :)

Indeed, Spoons. Indeed.

Agnostically Yours,
jag

[Sloth7d]

It's horrible how all this negative attention has been drawn on the arabs and muslims, but it will pass after this entire war ordeal is finally finished. In WWII there was an extreme hate for the japanese, even Superman comics telling you that it's okay to slap them. And now? Their products, t.v. shows, and cultures are currently one of the most popular forms of media in America. It'll take a few decades, but things will change.

[Sloth7d]

We'd all be better off without any religion.

Even though I'm catholic myself, sometimes, I believe this too.

[Colossal Spoons]

Indeed, Spoons. Indeed.

Agnostically Yours,
jag

Gotta believe in something. Even if you don't know what to call Him/Her :up:

[Darthphere]

Gotta believe in something. Even if you don't know what to call Him/Her :up:

6-4VOLeKBOw

[jaguarr]

Gotta believe in something. Even if you don't know what to call Him/Her :up:

Being spiritual doesn't necessarily mean believing in anything, though. It could just simply mean someone feels connected to and at harmony with the universe, world, fellow man, whatever, but they really don't have any belief system per se.

jag

[JayCaz]

I believe in nothing except ultra-violence and my mangina. Dems is alls I needs in my religion.

[Colossal Spoons]

Being spiritual doesn't necessarily mean believing in anything, though. It could just simply mean someone feels connected to and at harmony with the universe, world, fellow man, whatever, but they really don't have any belief system per se.

jag

Ah ha, it seems I said spirituality when I meant faith. My Christianity is need of repair right now so I'm in no position to preach but I loves me some God :D

[jaguarr]

Ah ha, it seems I said spirituality when I meant faith. My Christianity is need of repair right now so I'm in no position to preach but I loves me some God :D

Since Darthphere started the trend of replying to you with homoerotic music videos, who am I to let that trend die?

viPWb3ieH6o

jag

[jaguarr]

I believe in nothing except ultra-violence and my mangina. Dems is alls I needs in my religion.

What about ultra-violence INVOLVING your mangina?

jag

[Wilhelm-Scream]

@ Superman4Ever and Raybia

May Allah reward you.

Look at the one I made
Official Islamic Thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261564)

Tell me, about my approach through out the whole thread. It's over 1200 posts, of just me against everyone with prejudices lol.

That's why I didn't even bother with this wilhelm guy.You didn't bother with me because you had no points, no answers, only insults.
You didn't even read what I wrote or deal with the issues I raised, unlike raybia.
He actually talks to you, and thinks, and has an exchange, and raises good points by way of the knowledge he's acquired.
You just dismiss any dissent with arrogance.

[Corey]

How do I feel about Muslims? I think they're great. :woot: As some know, I don't hold their beliefs, but every single Muslim I've ever met has left me with a great impression, and have been exceptionally warm and kind. They have this grounded air about them. I've been trying to learn more about Islam. Any help would be appreciated.

[JayCaz]

What about ultra-violence INVOLVING your mangina?

jag


Yeah I'm all for it. Self administered only though I'm afraid.

[jaguarr]

Yeah I'm all for it. Self administered only though I'm afraid.

Morg will be so disappointed in that last part.

jag

[Mr Sparkle]

What about women?!

Before Islam the early people were cruel and unjust to women, they treated them like objects of mere desire, and often some of them went through hidious and unjust situations. To the point that they buried their duaghters alive.

Islam came to stop all of that, Allah gave the women honour once more and the rights that they so truthfully deserve. The veil is a beautiful thing, it ensures that the woman should be noticed for her personality and kindness and not for any physical traits.

A veil is a covering like this: http://www.usvetdsp.com/gifs/muslim_girl.jpg
Looks a lot like Virgin mary doesn't it?
That is because Mary is an example for muslim girls.

Girls in the Islamic world, laugh at the western girls. How they are enslaved to the male desire and are somewhat forced to wear make-up 24/7 or that they have to wear tight clothes even in cold days. To event the extremes of physical alterations to show that they are "free".

In Islam whatever a man can do, a women can do to. Don't think that any of the things that are going on right now in some of the so called "muslim" countries, where they treat women as secondary citizens is Islamic at all. It is the opposite, they do exactly what Islam came to stop. Ignorant culture has always been the enemy of Islam.


The truth is that there are so many MisConceptions going on lately, and I like many others just want to set it straight.

doesn't anyone find it awesome that the reasoning is that UNLESS the female is covered she will NOT be noticed for anything except her appearance.
and I frankly doubt that the girls in the Muslim world "laugh" and the women from the west, I seriously doubt that.
plus I love the "looks like the virgin mary" thing, it was hi-larious

[Mr Sparkle]

You didn't bother with me because you had no points, no answers, only insults.
You didn't even read what I wrote or deal with the issues I raised, unlike raybia.
He actually talks to you, and thinks, and has an exchange, and raises good points by way of the knowledge he's acquired.
You just dismiss any dissent with arrogance.

I find it awesome when people on the Hype are like
"I'm not going to bother with you" it makes me giggle.

[Jolie_Desastre]

doesn't anyone find it awesome that the reasoning is that UNLESS the female is covered she will NOT be noticed for anything except her appearance.
and I frankly doubt that the girls in the Muslim world "laugh" and the women from the west, I seriously doubt that.
plus I love the "looks like the virgin mary" thing, it was hi-larious

interesting thing, not all muslim women in the mid east cover themselves with the hijab. it is more of a choice. except in saudi arabia, that's a law, when you are not in your home.

[kainedamo]

Gotta believe in something. Even if you don't know what to call Him/Her :up:

I believe in Harvey Dent!

[Superman4ever]

How do I feel about Muslims? I think they're great. :woot: As some know, I don't hold their beliefs, but every single Muslim I've ever met has left me with a great impression, and have been exceptionally warm and kind. They have this grounded air about them. I've been trying to learn more about Islam. Any help would be appreciated.

Hey Corey,

This is a heart-warming post. Made my day. :yay:

Anyway, here are some great sites that you might want to check out:

http://www.islamicity.com/
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?hSection=DIEUI&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/DIESection
http://www.islamonline.net
http://www.ediscoverislam.com/Understanding-Islam/About-Islam/
http://www.understandingislam.com/index.php?category=26
http://www.understandingislam.org/0031_Islam.html

I have MANY more if you need them and please feel free to PM me anytime with any questions you may have.

Omar :)

[echostation]

My only problem is with certain individuals of the religion (and christianity too) when I hear several Muslims condemn Hinduism, especially in India... I know and have seen dozens upon dozens of muslims condemn hinduism as being a religion of falsehoods which absolutely annoys the **** out of me...

Hinduism doesn't cast judgement over other religion because our cardinal belief is that there are an infinite paths to the oneness with God, so any path you take we respect, all we ask is you don't prey on us and judge us and try to ****ing convert us which is what so many religions try to do (and let's not get into Caste cuz that's a serious ****ing problem I have with the high priests of Hinduism, but that's a separate topic)..

Why is it that whenever I visit my own land of ethnicity where the overwhelming majority are Hindu, I've been labeled as a monkey worshipper and dog lover by these very same pious muslims who claim Islam loves all? It's only when I scare the living **** out of them of what I could do to them then they stop... I ask not to be judged, so stop ****ing judging me cuz I haven't even ****ing judged you.

This is the serious problem when it comes to organized religion in general... most of the times people put their religion before country which is the utmost pathetic and idiotic thing to do... you want your country to survive like say India for example... can't think of yourself as a muslim, hindu or christian first... first comes Indian... THEN religion if need be

[raybia]

My only problem is with certain individuals of the religion (and christianity too) when I hear several Muslims condemn Hinduism, especially in India... I know and have seen dozens upon dozens of muslims condemn hinduism as being a religion of falsehoods which absolutely annoys the **** out of me...

Hinduism doesn't cast judgement over other religion because our cardinal belief is that there are an infinite paths to the oneness with God, so any path you take we respect, all we ask is you don't prey on us and judge us and try to ****ing convert us which is what so many religions try to do (and let's not get into Caste cuz that's a serious ****ing problem I have with the high priests of Hinduism, but that's a separate topic)..

Why is it that whenever I visit my own land of ethnicity where the overwhelming majority are Hindu, I've been labeled as a monkey worshipper and dog lover by these very same pious muslims who claim Islam loves all? It's only when I scare the living **** out of them of what I could do to them then they stop... I ask not to be judged, so stop ****ing judging me cuz I haven't even ****ing judged you.

This is the serious problem when it comes to organized religion in general... most of the times people put their religion before country which is the utmost pathetic and idiotic thing to do... you want your country to survive like say India for example... can't think of yourself as a muslim, hindu or christian first... first comes Indian... THEN religion if need be

I don't claim to be an expert in Hinduism but from what I know and seen of it, I think its a beautiful religion and I have much respect for those who faithfully practice the religion.

I feel its easy for me personally to see the beauty is different faiths as long as I don't think of myself as superior to anyone else and hold them to my standards.

I am very comfortable in my faith so I don't feel threaten by the existence of other religions and the millions of other people who follow religions other than Islam. In fact, and this may sound strange, but I actually feel a type of kinship with practitioners of some religions.

Maybe its the faith, discipline, and commitment that we share, I'm not sure.

I just try to remember and take to heart the following Quranic verse:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). 49:13

[raybia]

You didn't bother with me because you had no points, no answers, only insults.
You didn't even read what I wrote or deal with the issues I raised, unlike raybia.
He actually talks to you, and thinks, and has an exchange, and raises good points by way of the knowledge he's acquired.
You just dismiss any dissent with arrogance.

Thanks for the compliment Wil! I try my best but of course I wasn't always like that. I like to think that I have really grown as a poster on the Hype over the past 4 years (Wow has it really been that long?)

What really helps me though is never to think of any exchanges with you or anyone else, whether its about Islam or any other topic as debates. I always try to approach it as exchanges or as a dialogue where I share what I know and learn what I can from others.

Hopefully Wil our exchanges over the years have benefited both of us. It has for me.

[raybia]

@ Superman4Ever and Raybia

May Allah reward you.

Look at the one I made
Official Islamic Thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261564)

Tell me, about my approach through out the whole thread. It's over 1200 posts, of just me against everyone with prejudices lol.

That's why I didn't even bother with this wilhelm guy.

Thanks, may Allah bless you as well.

Nice posts on that forum. My only advise is to make sure you are always studying the religion and never think that your understanding of it is complete. Always be open-minded and don't get trap into one way of thinking. The more I learn about Islam the more I realize what I don't know.

Also as Muslims, we should always consider ourselves teachers of our faith and our exchanges should always be peaceful. We never want to use our knowledge to beat someone down who is less knowledgeable.

Even though not all people are Muslims, we are all still human beings and we should treat each other with respect as one human family...even when that is not reciprocated which is not always easy but we must always try to take the high road because its the right thing to do.

peace,

Ray

[Anubis Raptor]

I love muslims.

[squeekness]

I don't really have a problem with Muslims because they worship the same God as me. :D They just do it in a different way is all.

[raybia]

I don't really have a problem with Muslims because they worship the same God as me. :D They just do it in a different way is all.

Thats what I believe too!:yay:

[Superman4ever]

My only problem is with certain individuals of the religion (and christianity too) when I hear several Muslims condemn Hinduism, especially in India... I know and have seen dozens upon dozens of muslims condemn hinduism as being a religion of falsehoods which absolutely annoys the **** out of me...

Hinduism doesn't cast judgement over other religion because our cardinal belief is that there are an infinite paths to the oneness with God, so any path you take we respect, all we ask is you don't prey on us and judge us and try to ****ing convert us which is what so many religions try to do (and let's not get into Caste cuz that's a serious ****ing problem I have with the high priests of Hinduism, but that's a separate topic)..

Why is it that whenever I visit my own land of ethnicity where the overwhelming majority are Hindu, I've been labeled as a monkey worshipper and dog lover by these very same pious muslims who claim Islam loves all? It's only when I scare the living **** out of them of what I could do to them then they stop... I ask not to be judged, so stop ****ing judging me cuz I haven't even ****ing judged you.

This is the serious problem when it comes to organized religion in general... most of the times people put their religion before country which is the utmost pathetic and idiotic thing to do... you want your country to survive like say India for example... can't think of yourself as a muslim, hindu or christian first... first comes Indian... THEN religion if need be

You have to be fair here. There is a recent phenomenal dilemma in India with Muslims/Hindu relations, which I acknowledge, but OVERWHELMINGLY the Hindus are the aggressors. You're making the Hindus out to be the most peaceful people on Earth and it's ALL the Muslims fault. The Hindus attack Muslims, Sikhs and Christians alike at a disturbingly higher rate than the reverse.

Your post is disturbingly RSS in nature. For those of you that don't know the RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) is an extremist Hindu Nationalist organization who's founder, K.B. Hedgewar, along with a partner founded the terrorist organization using Nazi and Fascist ideals (they LOVE the Nazis, especially the idea of a "pure race"). Their main objective is a "one India" with Hindu as the main "way of life", excluding ALL other minorities.

Their main MO right now is blame the Muslims. For instance, Godhra train burning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning) where, tragically, 58 Hindus lost their lives to an accidental kitchen-fire. And in retaliation Hindu Militants attacked Muslim neighborhoods and markets, in Gujarat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence), killing upward as many as 5000 Muslims.

Their justification for burning Muslim women and children alive; gang raping women; gutting men and pregnant women alive? 'The Muslims caused the fire.' That Muslims started a riot and then fire-bombed the train at the station in Godhra. The Indian government (UPA), Human rights watch, UN and a slew of other investigators ALL confirmed that the fire was an accident and NO way caused by any external factor, i.e. Muslims. In fact ALL investigations found that Hindu Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), an offset of the RSS, started harassing Muslim passengers on the train, throwing rocks, beating them. When the train stopped in Godhra, they continued harassing Muslims and a riot broke out, then a fire broke out, and hence the Muslims were blamed for the fire. The people who died on the train were mainly VHP radicals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1271770.cms
http://www.awaazsaw.org/
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/
http://www.soundvision.com/info/india/godhra.asp

Should I bring up India's atrocities against Kashmir? Operation Blue Star?

GjpyXrjNU-s
EAvoVX9GkPY

I agree that the Caste should be left out...TOO much there. As for the Nation before religion, look fairly my friend. The RSS states that ALL Indians are Hindu and that India is a Hindu nation. Again, they claim nationalism over all, but so did the Nazis.

Now as for why you're attacked as a Hindu in India, I can easily offer you the number of several dozen people of Islamic, Christian, and Sikh Indian origins that could claim not only verbal, but mental, physical harassment. So, this wheel could go round and round, but there really is no solution with that type of mentality and attitude. You claim that Hinduism doesn't cast judgment, however your whole post is prejudice in nature. I ask you, my friend, to practice what you preach and what your religion instructs.

As for Hinduism, I have no problem whatsoever with it, and LOVE learning about it as a faith, a history to India. I love it's mythology. I have many Hindu friends and we constantly share stories of our cultures, practices, religion. More so than not India and the Muslim/Arab world have gotten along quite well, historically speaking. However, over the past century, an escalation of tension is there, primarily as a result of British rule.

[Crowforge]

I'd still feel safer in india than pakistan...

[BatSpider]

I'd still feel safer in india than pakistan...
As of right now yes, There was some concern in the area but after the killing of Bhutto, its gotten worse

They had a Marshall Law late last year, and had elections this year, but the Prime Minister wants to stay there to help rebuild the nation

More and more crazed politicans and Extremists, I just hope it doesnt become another battleground :csad:

[squeekness]

I always wonder how it is that people justify violence with more violence. I'll just bet that the ones who get retailated against the most, probably weren't the ones who did the original violence in the first place. :( How does gang raping women and murdering little children solve anything? And I mean this of any conflict, not even a religious one. It's just that it seems to me, that in a religious disagreement, it just makes things even worse. How God must cry at what we do ......

[LazloSpeeker]

I always wonder how it is that people justify violence with more violence. I'll just bet that the ones who get retailated against the most, probably weren't the ones who did the original violence in the first place. :( How does gang raping women and murdering little children solve anything? And I mean this of any conflict, not even a religious one. It's just that it seems to me, that in a religious disagreement, it just makes things even worse. How God must cry at what we do ......

Why would God cry? He's in charge, he has only himself to blame. Gang raping is a total obomination of humanity and a complete act of cowardice commited by gangs of cowards. Any REAL MAN can take a woman by himself, without trickery, deceipt, and assistance from his fellow man. That mentality, that of the 'gang rapist', is pretty much the problem with society. It is basically the same thing as 'teamwork' and I find it pathetic and disgusting. Anyone who participates in such an activity should be banned from civilized society for a very long time.

[jaguarr]

Why would God cry? He's in charge, he has only himself to blame. Gang raping is a total obomination of humanity and a complete act of cowardice commited by gangs of cowards. Any REAL MAN can take a woman by himself, without trickery, deceipt, and assistance from his fellow man. That mentality, that of the 'gang rapist', is pretty much the problem with society. It is basically the same thing as 'teamwork' and I find it pathetic and disgusting. Anyone who participates in such an activity should be banned from civilized society for a very long time.

So....gang rape is a major problem, but rape on a solo basis is okay with you? :huh:

jag

[squeekness]

God would cry because he gifted us with free will and this is how we choose to use it sometimes -- to hurt other people. :(

[PemLam]

Why would God cry? He's in charge, he has only himself to blame. Gang raping is a total obomination of humanity and a complete act of cowardice commited by gangs of cowards. Any REAL MAN can take a woman by himself, without trickery, deceipt, and assistance from his fellow man. That mentality, that of the 'gang rapist', is pretty much the problem with society. It is basically the same thing as 'teamwork' and I find it pathetic and disgusting. Anyone who participates in such an activity should be banned from civilized society for a very long time.

So....gang rape is a major problem, but rape on a solo basis is okay with you? :huh:

jag

And apparently he finds teamwork pathetic and disgusting. :csad:

[Wilhelm-Scream]

God would cry because he gifted us with free will and this is how we choose to use it sometimes -- to hurt other people. :(
He created humans knowing they would choose to hurt each other. He didn't have to create them. He obviously wants them to hurt each other. He could stop it at any time.

[jaguarr]

And apparently he finds teamwork pathetic and disgusting. :csad:

That kind of selfishness is destroying America.

jag

[LazloSpeeker]

So....gang rape is a major problem, but rape on a solo basis is okay with you? :huh:

jag

Friend, it's all rape.

AND, for the record, I said a real man could do it WITHOUT trickery or deceipt. I think rape would classify as being done with trickery and deceipt since most of the accused males knew their victims and probably had been trying to trick and decieve them into sex long before they actually raped them.

[jaguarr]

Friend, it's all rape.

AND, for the record, I said a real man could do it WITHOUT trickery or deceipt. I think rape would classify as being done with trickery and deceipt since most of the accused males knew their victims and probably had been trying to trick and decieve them into sex long before they actually raped them.

Rape is about force, power and control, not trickery or deceit. A real man knows when his advances aren't wanted and moves on. Period.

jag

[LazloSpeeker]

Rape is about force, power and control, not trickery or deceit. A real man knows when his advances aren't wanted and moves on. Period.

jag

Okay buddy boy, mounting a woman and penetrating her by means other than rape so she can spawn your demonchild is not about force, power, and control. Yeppur, you sure know what you're doing and saying.:whatever:

If you think 'normal' sexual relations are not about force, power, and control then you need to think about what you did to get that piece of ass and start realizing that the intercourse was even worse than all that other stuff that lead up to it. WAKE UP!

As for rape not being about trickery and deceipt, wake up man. Everything about modern society and it's sexual practices is about trickery and deceipt. All the way from society's stupid hairstyles and queer fashions to our dumb catch phrases and bad attempts at being witty and smart.

[kainedamo]

Okay buddy boy, mounting a woman and penetrating her by means other than rape so she can spawn your demonchild is not about force, power, and control. Yeppur, you sure know what you're doing and saying.:whatever:

If you think 'normal' sexual relations are not about force, power, and control then you need to think about what you did to get that piece of ass and start realizing that the intercourse was even worse than all that other stuff that lead up to it. WAKE UP!

As for rape not being about trickery and deceipt, wake up man. Everything about modern society and it's sexual practices is about trickery and deceipt. All the way from society's stupid hairstyles and queer fashions to our dumb catch phrases and bad attempts at being witty and smart.

You got what Jag said completely back to front :huh:

[jaguarr]

Okay buddy boy, mounting a woman and penetrating her by means other than rape so she can spawn your demonchild is not about force, power, and control. Yeppur, you sure know what you're doing and saying.:whatever:

If you think 'normal' sexual relations are not about force, power, and control then you need to think about what you did to get that piece of ass and start realizing that the intercourse was even worse than all that other stuff that lead up to it. WAKE UP!

As for rape not being about trickery and deceipt, wake up man. Everything about modern society and it's sexual practices is about trickery and deceipt. All the way from society's stupid hairstyles and queer fashions to our dumb catch phrases and bad attempts at being witty and smart.

You amuse me. :)

jag

[LazloSpeeker]

You amuse me. :)

jag

And you annoy me, go walk head first into an oncoming bus.:cmad:

[jaguarr]

And you annoy me, go walk head first into an oncoming bus.:cmad:

I'll do that as soon as you develop competent reading comprehension skills. I expect to live a long time. :up:

jag

[echostation]

superman4ever... I don't acknowledge any extremists... I hate extremists of all forms

all I'm stating are the personal reactions that I have had... and in no way am I going about blaming the entirity of Islam, hence read my post carefully when I say dozens that I KNOW personally...

as for your other crap about Hindus being the aggressors... don't even get me started at just how ******** your post is... You're categorically making the generalizations here and making yourself look completely hypocritical by saying "hindus are the agressors..." there you go, ****ing broad based, oversweeping generalization... while I never made one such comment... the muslims that have said those things to me are PEOPLE I ****ING KNOW... I'm not saying the entirity of Islam (much like you pretty much have with Hindus in India) is to blame for so many atrocities...

Hindus and Muslims have made several wrong aggressive and violent attacks on each other... your argument of hindus being more agressive as such is totally ******** cuz I can come up with hundreds of counter examples and make a stupid ass broad based generalizations of how Muslims in India have been far more aggressive... but do I? No cuz I don't believe in it

You on the other hand, have made those over sweeping generalizations thus making you an individually sad human being... I pity the pathetic fact that you blindly think that way... oh so so sad an individual you are, there's pretty much nothing more to say to you except you have my sympathy at just how ignorant, hypocritical and blind you are... goodbye ..

[terry78]

Just for the record, trickery is an entirely different courtship than rape. Some chicks just HAVE to be tricked. :o :p

"I really enjoy discussing existentialism with you", is a trick.

[LazloSpeeker]

I'll do that as soon as you develop competent reading comprehension skills. I expect to live a long time. :up:

jag

And I expect to be fighting a space battle with lasers in Alpha Centauri sometime in this lifetime with a cool alien sidekick and a large breasted elf that is a time traveler, what's your point? :whatever:

[jaguarr]

And I expect to be fighting a space battle with lasers in Alpha Centauri sometime in this lifetime with a cool alien sidekick and a large breasted elf that is a time traveler, what's your point? :whatever:

That you lack the ability to comprehend what people write in response to you and usually go off on either some wild, completely unrelated tangent or make weak attempts at slamming them based on your misinterpretations of what they wrote. Any questions? :)

jag

[SuperMonkey]

I have nothing against Muslims.:up:

Except the crazy ones. :)

[raybia]

I love Muslims!

The good ones that is!

[squeekness]

It is a shame that many folks think that the nutty guys who blow up things are the real representatives of the Islamic faith when they are not. They are just the loudest. :(

[Crowforge]

That's kind of how it works all around.

[SuperMonkey]

Uh.... what? :confused:

[Crowforge]

People that don't know another tend to judge each other by their worst representatives.

[SuperMonkey]

true

[LazloSpeeker]

That you lack the ability to comprehend what people write in response to you and usually go off on either some wild, completely unrelated tangent or make weak attempts at slamming them based on your misinterpretations of what they wrote. Any questions? :)

jag

From what I've gathered from other posters, only your written responses are incomprehendable.

[SonikDeath]

People that don't know another tend to judge each other by their worst representatives.

So true.

[Colossal Spoons]

There's a new Muslim guy from Pakistan at work, he's friggin awesome. All we do is crack race jokes all day, he says he can hook me up with free oil. :up:

[AndThePickles]

There's a new Muslim guy from Pakistan at work, he's friggin awesome. All we do is crack race jokes all day, he says he can hook me up with free oil. :up:

I need to meet this guy. Hopefully he'll be nice to me and won't call me "the man." :csad:

[raybia]

From what I've gathered from other posters, only your written responses are incomprehendable.

From what I've known of jag, along with my interactions with him over the past 4 years, your portrayal is off.

Also, I don't think incomprehenable is a word.

[jaguarr]

From what I've gathered from other posters, only your written responses are incomprehendable.

Haha! Again, you amuse me. :)

jag

[Crowforge]

Way down after the prisoner exchange.

[badgonegood]

I'm not religious at all so I'm cool with everyone. :) This way I don't have to choose my Christian friends over my Jewish, Muslim, ect friends.

[Superman4ever]

Way down after the prisoner exchange.

Hm? :huh:

[raybia]

the Honey Vibe's BF should not be upset since modern preparation of pork allows safety.
I mean, spinach was pretty dangerous about a year ago, so maybe he could focus on spinach for a while?


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/07/12/are-there-deadly-superbugs-in-your-pork.aspx?source=nl

Are There Deadly Superbugs in Your Pork?

pork, ham, bacon, pigs, swine, superbugs, MRSA, infectious diseases, infections, PERV, menangle, PRRS, hepatitis, encephalitis, Nipah, virus, bacteria, food poisoning, trichinosisScientists have detected antibiotic-resistant bacteria in pork, pigs and some veterinarians. It is possible that these so-called superbugs could infect farmworkers or even people who eat pork.

Antibiotic-resistant bugs were found in more than 7 percent of over 100 swine veterinarians tested. The same bacterial strains were found in nearly 50 percent of 300 tested pigs.

Perhaps of greatest concern, the bacteria were also found in 10 percent of more than 200 samples of ground pork and pork chops collected from four Canadian provinces.

An estimated 18,650 deaths a year in the U.S. are estimated to be caused by antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
Sources:

* Organic Consumers Association June 16, 2008


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Dr. Mercola Dr. Mercola's Comments:

If you’re still not convinced of the benefits of avoiding pork, I advise you to keep reading.

Pork is actually good meat from a biochemical perspective, but I believe there is more than enough scientific evidence to justify the reservations or outright prohibitions in many cultures against consuming it.

Pigs are scavenger animals and will eat just about anything. Their appetite for less-than-wholesome foods makes pigs a breeding ground for potentially dangerous infections. Even cooking pork for long periods is not enough to kill many of the retroviruses and other parasites that many of them harbor.

This is why my eating plan recommends consciously avoiding pork whenever possible.

Granted, the occasional consumption of pork might be fine, but it's a risk, and the more you consume it the more likely it is that you will acquire some type of infection, because as I will show you, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) is NOT your only potential health hazard.

Scientific Backing for the Avoidance of Pork

Bacon, perhaps one of America’s favorite breakfast staples, is in fact one of the worst type of processed meats you could eat for your health. According to a 2006 study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, eating bacon five or more times a week was linked to increasing your risk of bladder cancer by 59 percent. Aside from the processing of the meat, another likely cause for bacon’s negative influence on your health is the heterocyclic amines that form when meat is cooked at high temperatures.

If you cook meat that is loaded with pesticides and hormones at high temperatures, you're simply asking for trouble. That's why I limit my meat choices as much as possible to grass-fed and organic meats.

You also need to beware of eating undercooked pork, as it can cause trichinosis. Fortunately, trichinosis affects only 11 people per year in the U.S. and less than 2 percent of those infected actually die from the disease, which means there is one death every five years in the U.S. from this.

As far as MRSA is concerned, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have previously warned consumers about the risks inherent in the ever-popular holiday ham in their Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. Turns out the high salt and sugar content of pre-cooked canned hams provides an ideal growth medium for the Staphylococcus aureus bacteria.

Additionally, if you’re a diabetic or if you have a weakened immune system, you may also do well to steer clear of chitterlings, a dish consisting of boiled pig intestines that are served up as traditional holiday fare in the Southern U.S.

It’s possible for people with poorly controlled diabetes to become seriously ill with enteritis necroticans, a potentially life-threatening intestinal infection. The rare disease causes severe stomach pain, vomiting of blood and low blood pressure. The culprit is the chitterlings-contaminating bacterium known as Clostridium perfringens type C, which produces a toxin that is lethal to tissue in your digestive tract. Even cooking the chitterlings might not rid them of the bacteria.

But wait, there’s more!

The Unsavory Side of Pork

The pork and swine industry has been continually plagued, and continues to be so to this day, by a wide variety of hazardous and deadly infections and diseases, including:

PRRS -- A horrendous disease, which I first reported on in 2001, but which had been a nightmare for many nations since the mid-1980s, is still alive and kicking today.

At one point referred to as "swine mystery disease," "blue abortion," and "swine infertility," the disease was finally named "Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome” (PRRS), and may afflict about 75 percent of American pig herds.

The PRRS virus primarily attacks the pig’s immune system, leaving its body open to a host of infections, particularly in the lungs. Initial research revealed that the virus was transmitted via semen, saliva and blood, leaving pigs herded closely together and transported in close quarters by trucks more susceptible to infection.

However, according to new research presented at the 2007 International PRRS Symposium shows that the disease is now airborne, making eradication efforts very difficult. According to the PRRS Coordinated Agricultural Project (CAP) and the National Pork Board, it is still the most economically significant disease of swine in the U.S.

The Nipah Virus – Discovered in 1999, the Nipah virus has caused disease in both animals and humans, through contact with infected animals. In humans, the virus can lead to deadly encephalitis (an acute inflammation of your brain). I originally reported on this virus in 2000, but according to CDC data, the Nipah virus reemerged again in 2004.

Hepatitis E (HEV) – According to the Mayo Clinic and an article in the Journal of Clinical Biology, pork may be the reservoir responsible for sporadic, locally acquired cases of acute hepatitis reported in regions with relatively mild climates as HEV has been found to transmit between swine and humans.

Porcine Endogenous Retrovirus (PERV) – According to a study in the journal Lancet, this virus can spread to people receiving pig organ transplants, and according to test tube studies, PERV strains does have the ability to infect human cells. PERV genes are scattered throughout pigs' genetic material, and researchers have found that pig heart, spleen and kidney cells release various strains of the virus.

Menangle Virus – In 1998, the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases reported that a new virus infecting pigs was able to jump to humans. The menangle virus was discovered in August 1997 when sows at an Australian piggery began giving birth to deformed and mummified piglets.

What About Pasture-Raised Pork?

In a slightly ironic twist, I can’t even safely recommend consuming pasture-raised pork, because while researching this article I stumbled across a study in the current issue of Emerging Infectious Diseases citing concerns about pastured pigs being vulnerable to Trichinella spiralis infection, due to their exposure to wild hosts that carry the disease.

Pasture-raised pig farming has expanded with increased demand from health conscious consumers, and currently there are 28 U.S. farms located within 50 kilometers of a previously infected site.

If for whatever reason you still want to continue buying pasture-raised pork, I’d advise you to at least take a look at the CDC map, which details areas where outbreaks have occurred, to avoid purchasing meat from a potentially unsafe location.
Other than that, I would simply recommend you avoid pork altogether, even organic pasture-raised versions.

[Anubis Raptor]

One of my best friends is muslim and hes pretty cool.

[Crowforge]

Hm? :huh:
There's a party in lebanon because Hamas traded the bodies of two soldiers for a bunch of terrorists the most noteworthy of which is infamous for killing a man then crushing his daughters skull in.

[Superman4ever]

There's a party in lebanon because Hamas traded the bodies of two soldiers for a bunch of terrorists the most noteworthy of which is infamous for killing a man then crushing his daughters skull in.

You mean Samir Quntar. I strongly disagreed with his release earlier and stated that I wouldn't mind him being taken out by Mossad, and I don't agree with the celebration Hezbollah gave him. However, Samir Quntar isn't a Muslim, he's a Druze.

But as a political move it's very encouraging that the 2 sides are talking again and this swap, no matter how you feel about Samir, is a sign of trust for both sides politically. It's not perfect, but at least it's something.

[squeekness]

What's a Druze? I don't know if I have ever heard of that.....