Superman: Man of Steel Consultants

[echostation]

build fan base support from ground up but also would allow for the best possible chances of delivering the kind of kick ass story that Superman deserves would be making at least 2 or 3 phone calls to:

Bruce Timm
Paul Dini
Stan Berkowitz

Especially the first two... Now i'm NOT SAYING THESE GUYS SHOULD WRITE THE SCRIPT... What I am arguing though is to allow these guys to at least cook up a treatment... 20 pgs or just an outline story concept.. 10-15 pages TOPs... then let Singer and his lame ass writers deal with it from there.. At least SOME OF the story would then be rooted in pure superman kick assery and from the comics or the animated series. I honestly feel this would be one of the best moves Singer could make rather than "bounce around his own [most likely lame ass] BIG ACTION IDEAS with his writers." Allowing Timm and Dini to step on board to at least craft a story or treatment plot would instill a level of kick ass confidence in the film and would tremendously help I think in the long run for this troubled franchise.

[El Payaso]

Dunno, those guys deleted the Maroni throwing acid over Dent's face.

[Freddy_Krueger]

No thanks. While I like Dini and Timm and love the animated shows they produced, I don't trust them with a feature film. Besides, they powered down Superman so much in the animated series, the show was hard to enjoy most of the time.

[Dr. Fate]

No thanks. While I like Dini and Timm and love the animated shows they produced, I don't trust them with a feature film. Besides, they powered down Superman so much in the animated series, the show was hard to enjoy most of the time.
Are you saying the only way to enjoy Superman in animation is if he's so powerful that he can juggle planets as if they were golf balls?

[true316]

build fan base support from ground up but also would allow for the best possible chances of delivering the kind of kick ass story that Superman deserves would be making at least 2 or 3 phone calls to:

Bruce Timm
Paul Dini
Stan Berkowitz
.

I disagree. I thought their Superman cartoon was pretty good but it wasn't great. I though the action in the cartoon was usually pretty basic and not very creative. I'll take the plane rescue in Superman Returns over the plane rescue in "The Last Son of Krypton."

On the other hand if they ever got a chance at a live action Batman movie that would be pretty neat (although I'm just fine with Nolan :batman: ).

[Showtime]

As I have said time and time again, Dini and Timm are not the saviors to the Superman film franchise. They did a fantastic job with their incarnations of Superman. They should be applauded, but I don't know where people are getting that they should be the ones to shoulder the load on a Superman film.

[Freddy_Krueger]

Are you saying the only way to enjoy Superman in animation is if he's so powerful that he can juggle planets as if they were golf balls?

Nope, but when Superman is having a hard time against a barrage of bullets, despite being bulletproof, then I just gotta roll my eyes. Other than that I did enjoy the animated series for the most part, but it was definitely more flawed than say, Batman: The Animated Series and Justice League Unlimited.

[Zen Ith]

As I have said time and time again, Dini and Timm are not the saviors to the Superman film franchise. They did a fantastic job with their incarnations of Superman. They should be applauded, but I don't know where people are getting that they should be the ones to shoulder the load on a Superman film.Because fans fear differences.

[Showtime]

Because fans fear differences.

I have no idea what that vague statment means. :dry:

[ReTrO JuNkIe 42]

I would give them a shot, come on they can't do worse then Singer ( I dont think anyway)

[Showtime]

Have they written any movie scripts?

[El Payaso]

( I dont think anyway)

We can tell. :yay:

[Crooklyn]

Nope, but when Superman is having a hard time against a barrage of bullets, despite being bulletproof, then I just gotta roll my eyes.
When did this happen?

it was definitely more flawed than say, Batman: The Animated Series and Justice League Unlimited.
I find that weird, considering he was even MORE de-powered during JL. :huh:

[Maze]

We can tell. :yay:
Lol! :D Good one :cwink:

[Maze]

Back in topic :D

I love what they have done with Batman , not so much with Superman .

It was good make no mistake, but nothing special imo.

considering that i like the interpretation of Singer and his writers , i'll stick with them ( even if their script was far from perfect onscreen)

[echostation]

Again... I never said to bring them aboard to write a full blown script... to those who for some odd reason misinterpreted the topic as if I was suggesting for them to write the script... please read it again and CAREFULLY... there's a reason why I said, JUST A TREATMENT... AN OUTLINE

Or at least GET THEM on board to help with this entire Bouncing around of ideas because sure as **** they will at least bring more and better parts of the comic lore into the story than Singer ever could. Even if it's just idea bouncing... I think asking them for how they might tackle a story would be a great avenue to explore.. much like R&D for a story.

[Showtime]

Again...that wouldn't happen. They wouldnt bring in a new team to write a treatment when Singer has already outlined the first two movies in his opening pitch to WB. He went in there with at least the first two outlined, or at least offered possibilites. It was already said in several interviews and is standard operating procedure for a large franshise, there always has to be sequel potential.

[Freddy_Krueger]

When did this happen?


I find that weird, considering he was even MORE de-powered during JL. :huh:

I'd have to check (good thing I have the DVD collections ;) ), but I definitely think it was an earlier episode. I'll get back to you on that here eventually. I know I've seen it.

I wouldn't say Supes was more depowered in JL. Well, maybe that first season where they were trying to get Supes out of the action early on in the battles, but not so much after that. In fact, it was the later shows that showcased Superman's power with his battles with Captain Marvel, Darkseid and Mongul among others.

[lexlives]

There are many critical things Singer and/or WB must do if they greenlight a sequel:

FX - get a different company. WETA or ILM. SR's flying scenes were not at all impressive or well done and expecially so given today's technology and the money Singer spent. The FF FX so far looks so much more impressive.

Writing - make it sharp and original. No more lifting lines from others sources. I am not even sure that D&H are all that good as writers or maybe they can't write to Superman. A co-writer needs to be brought in to guide them.

Overall pallette of film - brighten it up. Enough with the muddy look. More daylight scenes and fewer nightime scenes.

Lighting - the use of lighting to emphasize main characters or components in scenes was awful. Half the time you could hardly make Superman out.

Action - lots more.

Costume - brighten the red some, raise the trunks/lower the collar. Design more streamlined looking boots.

Editing - a major tightening of the editing is absolutely needed.

CGI - use it only when it is absolutely needed. It was way over-used in SR.

Marketing - start much earlier release a teaser sooner than 6 months out and a trailer sooner than 2 months out. Release a cool toy the XMAS before release. Marvel's releasing the Itsy Bitsy Spider doll this past XMAS was brilliant. The top selling toy and little kids are already pestering their moms to see the film. Use common sense - no super-bowl teaser? But a ton of TV ads in late may/June when the TV audience, after may sweeps, drops by 70%. One super-bowl ad would have reached more folks than all those last minute TV ads. Use billboards and bus signs. In the Bay Area SR had just a minimum buy with no posters in any of the 3 major downtown SF BART stations through which hundreds of thousands pass each day. BTW, GR has 2 or 3 poster in some stations. WB basically wasted most of the 100 million marketing budget.

Quality control - those pictures of Routh standing on a box to mimmick flying were atrocious. The PR photos were all poor pretty much. Get a talented photographer and have an independent person from the photographer vet the photos. Notice how we never get a bad Spiderman PR photo?

Buzz - WB has to turn it around or a Singer sequel is dead before its even started. Put out teaser info early. Tell the folks that some changes will be made to the suit which we couldn't do last time cause production was well under way. They don't even have to specify the changes - let the fanboys buzz about it. That kind of teaser will only help that buzz be positive or more positive.

Cast - some should go or be replaced. Bosworth, Lagell replace, Lex's campy sidekicks let go and bring in serious people working for Lex.

WB - don't be afraid to "just say no" to Singer. Frankly no as in giving him a red light and let him out to do other work. But on the off chance thye give him a go-ahead they need to have a day-to-day minder on the set and be willing to override some of Singer's decisions.

Its not like WB has a choice. They need to make many changes but so far aside from action and a second villain there is no hint we will see anything significant. And that will kill any sequel at the BO.

[Crooklyn]

Cast - some should go or be replaced. Bosworth, Lagell replace, Lex's campy sidekicks let go and bring in serious people working for Lex.

I agree with everything you said, except this. A recast is NOT the way to go. Pretty much the only miscast people are Bosworth, and maybe Langella. What needs to be improved is the writing.

[lexlives]

I agree with everything you said, except this. A recast is NOT the way to go. Pretty much the only miscast people are Bosworth, and maybe Langella. What needs to be improved is the writing.


I think both could be recast - Bosworth and Lagella - certainly it would not be a problem with Lagella.

Lexd's sidekicks don't need recasting - they need dropping. Bring in serious associates - BB and Spiderman don't go this camy route. It no longer appeals to a lot of the audience in this type of film.

[Showtime]

Heh Heh...even if a new director took over, there would be no recasting of Bosworth or Routh. Jimmy would stay and so would Lex. Langella maybe, but I thought he did good.

[KrypJonian]

I dig the idea of Timm taking a stab at it, at least for a little more action...but I'd rather check out the new animated project first.

Something seperate from STAS

[lexlives]

One of my items was WB would need to start marketing earlier - like way earlier. The news page has an item about Spiderman tie-in to fruit loops will or is already being featured in ads.

WB is not capable of this style of marketing I am afraid.

[Showtime]

the Spiderman movie is only like 5 months away right? Superman already had cereal tie ins out at that point.

[KrypJonian]

I agree with both of you guys.

But the next Supes needs more tidbits. SR was on the right track with the blogs, but it there wasn't enough hype surrounding the movie, IMO.

I personally would like to see concept art and maybe some boards before the movie comes out. And it would make for some good debates outside of speculation.

Take Spiderman 3. We've known about Sandman for a long time. Then we got Venom. Then we got Harry confirmed as a villain. Then we got the possibility of Harry dying or getting a f**ked up face from Parker. And all the while the possibility of MJ, Aunt May, or Gwen Stacy dying to debate and speculate. Spidey 3 is still a complete mystery as far as details go, but there is a TON of hype.

[Dr. Fate]

Nope, but when Superman is having a hard time against a barrage of bullets, despite being bulletproof, then I just gotta roll my eyes. Other than that I did enjoy the animated series for the most part, but it was definitely more flawed than say, Batman: The Animated Series and Justice League Unlimited.
At least the Bruce Timm/Paul Dini version of Superman was a sympathetic character whom the audience could actually root for.

[lexlives]

I agree with both of you guys.

But the next Supes needs more tidbits. SR was on the right track with the blogs, but it there wasn't enough hype surrounding the movie, IMO.

I personally would like to see concept art and maybe some boards before the movie comes out. And it would make for some good debates outside of speculation.

Take Spiderman 3. We've known about Sandman for a long time. Then we got Venom. Then we got Harry confirmed as a villain. Then we got the possibility of Harry dying or getting a f**ked up face from Parker. And all the while the possibility of MJ, Aunt May, or Gwen Stacy dying to debate and speculate. Spidey 3 is still a complete mystery as far as details go, but there is a TON of hype.

WB nees to hand their marketing/hype machine over to Sony/Raimi. Spiderman 3 is like leagues ahead of where SR was at this point last year in terms of hype and anticipation. It is sad really how bad the SR marketing was - and we are really seeing that now with Spidey and FF 2.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

This should be the S:TAS forum.

[Zen Ith]

BB and Spiderman don't go this camy route. It no longer appeals to a lot of the audience in this type of film.HA! That is SUCH a lie. The Spider-Man movies are just as campy as Superman: The Movie and most definitely more so than Superman Returns. And the audiences love it.

[Zen Ith]

At least the Bruce Timm/Paul Dini version of Superman was a sympathetic character whom the audience could actually root for.
Personally I thought he was a bit of a pr1ck. Especially in Justice League.

[Showtime]

I agree with both of you guys.

But the next Supes needs more tidbits. SR was on the right track with the blogs, but it there wasn't enough hype surrounding the movie, IMO.

I personally would like to see concept art and maybe some boards before the movie comes out. And it would make for some good debates outside of speculation.

Take Spiderman 3. We've known about Sandman for a long time. Then we got Venom. Then we got Harry confirmed as a villain. Then we got the possibility of Harry dying or getting a f**ked up face from Parker. And all the while the possibility of MJ, Aunt May, or Gwen Stacy dying to debate and speculate. Spidey 3 is still a complete mystery as far as details go, but there is a TON of hype.

Not much of a mystery anymore, it's pretty certain who is living and dying and what the ending is.

[ReTrO JuNkIe 42]

We can tell. :yay:


:oldrazz: :whatever:

[Dr. Fate]

Personally I thought he was a bit of a pr1ck. Especially in Justice League.
:huh:

[Zen Ith]

:huh:Superman is a very flawed and at times unlikeable character in the cartoons. Clark Kent is needlessly aggressive against the people he interviews. Superman treats others like idiots and hates people questioning his authority.

I actually think it's quite funny.

[Dr. Fate]

Superman is a very flawed and at times unlikeable character in the cartoons. Clark Kent is needlessly aggressive against the people he interviews.
So you're saying the only way for Clark Kent to be likable is for him to act like a bumbling nerd who trips over himself?

[Zen Ith]

So you're saying the only way for Clark Kent to be likable is for him to act like a bumbling nerd who trips over himself?
You're putting words into my mouth. Don't do that.

To me nerdy Clark has always been more interesting than "Real person ROFL" Clark Kent from Post-Crisis. A man that has to act inadequate in order to fully socialise with humanity has a lot more depth than a man putting on a pair of glasses to mix with humanity.

IMO "Clark Kent is who I am, Superman is what I can do" is nothing more than a ploy to turn Superman into Spider-Man.

[Dr. Fate]

To me nerdy Clark has always been more interesting than "Real person ROFL" Clark Kent from Post-Crisis. A man that has to act inadequate in order to fully socialise with humanity has a lot more depth than a man putting on a pair of glasses to mix with humanity.

IMO "Clark Kent is who I am, Superman is what I can do" is nothing more than a ploy to turn Superman into Spider-Man.
There's just one problem - no one would hire an idiot like "Nerdy Clark" to be a news journalist. He'd get fired in a week acting that way.

And by the way, it doesn't give him any "depth".

[El Payaso]

There's just one problem - no one would hire an idiot like "Nerdy Clark" to be a news journalist. He'd get fired in a week acting that way.

Unless his chief thinks he's the fastest typist.

[Freddy_Krueger]

Unless his chief thinks he's the fastest typist.

Not to mention he has a punchy prose style. ;)

[Comic Book Boy]

Timm and Co. are already making a Superman film. A DTV of The Death Of Superman.

[Zen Ith]

And by the way, it doesn't give him any "depth".Actually it does. A superpowered man having to masquerade as someone worthless to fit into normal society? It has plenty of depth. It means he has to hide who he is in order to have a normal life.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Ok the first one I'm going with is the obvious: Bruce Timm of TAS.
This is a guy who gets how to update Superman in the modern era. Even beyond Superman I think he just has a feel for DC characters in general.

sG4IvUr-03c
One thing SR couldn't get quite right imo was the dynamic between Lois and Clark. I will make a left field suggestion based on the pilot alone from the tv series L&C. (Yes I'm a FOLC) : Deborah Levine All of the characters exuded an amount of chemistry while she was still in the forefront of the show. I realize she isn't a "comic book" expert but her other strengths were quite helpful in characterization.
N5636lbzXxg

[Dark Knight]

I hope Mark Waid, Geoff Johns, or Bruce Timm

[GreenKToo]

Bruce Timm for sure. Waid would do as well.

[Spider-Fan]

Timm is awesome, but did stumble with Superman: Doomsday big time. I think we've seen enough done with the Donner version of Supes, so I wouldn't go with Donner. To be honest, I am not sure who'd get at this point.

They can always consult me, of course :woot:

[Hole Shot]

amazingly enough, no one is suggesting Mark Millar!:hehe:

[Dark Knight]

amazingly enough, no one is suggesting Mark Millar!:hehe:



LOL

[SatEL]

Bruce Timm for sure. Waid would do as well.

Bruce Timm is a great choice but he takes to much Liberty with Supermans ability and power, I wont be surprised if he had Superman get knocked out after getting hit with to much bullets or some weird **** like that.

[SatEL]

I hope Mark Waid, Geoff Johns, or Bruce Timm

Mark Waid isnt a bad choice Birthright was preety solid and was a decent take he wouldnt be bad for a reboot.:yay:

[Superark]

Bruce Timm is a great choice but he takes to much Liberty with Supermans ability and power, I wont be surprised if he had Superman get knocked out after getting hit with to much bullets or some weird **** like that.

Agreed, I always felt he depowered Supes just a tad too much

[bunk]

Yeah Mark Waid ftw.

[The Guard]

Myself. What a silly question.

[dark_b]

why pay money for something that you can do yourself? the writters will get every comicbook. they can study everything from superman. WB,writters and director have a meeting so that they see if they are on the same page .
voila.

[charl_huntress]

I"m just going to say Loeb and Berkowitz.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Timm, I hate how powerful Superman has gotten.

[batman44]

Timm, Dini, and Loeb.

[bunk]

why pay money for something that you can do yourself? the writters will get every comicbook. they can study everything from superman. WB,writters and director have a meeting so that they see if they are on the same page .
voila.

Oh yes the writers will go back and read all of the various arcs from start to finish after having returned from their time machine journey in which they traveled back to their youth and got themselves to like comics as children.

Please.

I suggest WB just pay the men their money.

[TruerToTheCore]

Bruce TIm doesn't like Superman, he is a Batman fanboy.
Deborah Levine, this is a joke, right? Lois & Clark was BAD. THat's not the true Superman we want to see.

Get MAGGIN.

[charl_huntress]

Bruce TIm doesn't like Superman, he is a Batman fanboy.
Deborah Levine, this is a joke, right? Lois & Clark was BAD. THat's not the true Superman we want to see.

Get MAGGIN.

Agreed....if the Timmverse came into existence then Batman would save Superman every single time:o

[TruerToTheCore]

Agreed....if the Timmverse came into existence then Batman would save Superman every single time:o

exactly. Batman stole Superman's girl in Superman's own show!! Humilating.

[GreenKToo]

Bruce Timm is a great choice but he takes to much Liberty with Supermans ability and power, I wont be surprised if he had Superman get knocked out after getting hit with to much bullets or some weird **** like that.
This is just my little opinion, but I actually wouldnt mind seeing him depowered at least a little in the next film. Not weakened to the point where he strains to move a tank or plane, but not so strong that he can lift an entire Island either.

[SuperDaniel]

Bruce Timm, Jeph Loeb, Grant Morrison, Mark Waid...

[Anubis Raptor]

These choices are really "stunning"....

[I Am The Knight]

Agreed, I always felt he depowered Supes just a tad too much

Glad I'm not the only one. That was a little frustrating for me during STAS's time.

[SatEL]

This is just my little opinion, but I actually wouldnt mind seeing him depowered at least a little in the next film. Not weakened to the point where he strains to move a tank or plane, but not so strong that he can lift an entire Island either.
:oSuperman has no Limits:woot: but seriously I dont think Supes should ever struggle with things. To me Superman is a superhero to Superhero's. The one solid thing I liked about returns was that they got Superman's strenght spot on.

[TruerToTheCore]

I like it when Superman's powers grow when he is using them. At first, when an asteroid comes flying he can barely stop him but after a few seconds he can push him back.

[GreenKToo]

Can you imagine just how strong the villain will have to be to offer Superman a real challenge?
This should, and could, put all other C.B. films action scenes to shame *IF* it's done correctly.

[Superfreak]

I could think of a group of about 10 posters on this board that would result in a good test group at the least, if not a group that could brainstorm a brilliant plot line for a sequel.

[Retroman]

There are a number of possibilities with Geoff Johns being a top candidate because of his success as a Superman writer, affiliation with Richard Donner and willingness to actually be involved in a Superman movie.:up:

For artistic influence it would be great if they could get Alex Ross and/or Jim Lee to be involved in some way. Ross seems(ed) interested in notion of working with Singer.

UGO: I was lucky enough to go to the set of Superman in Australia. They had artwork everywhere in the offices that looked enough like your artwork that the other journalists were like, "Is Alex Ross doing this?" But obviously you're not.

ALEX: They did take images from some of my books and rework them into different compositions. The designer of the movie told me that they're going to show some of how they did that in one of the art books next year. I've been quoted as being inspiration for the film, but I was never invited to be part of the project. I have had absolutely no hand in what they are doing. So for me, I didn't understand what they meant by it, but I guess I influenced some of the compositions, some of the grandiosity of how Superman is viewed, but I'm much more of a nuts and bolts guy who says, "Where's the guy with the big body?"

UGO: Would you have been interested in doing something with it?

ALEX: Oh absolutely. I desperately wanted to get a hold of Bryan Singer when I heard he was given the job, but I didn't get contacted by anyone until they were already well underway.Source:http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/features/alexross/default_5.asp
why pay money for something that you can do yourself? the writters will get every comicbook. they can study everything from superman. WB,writters and director have a meeting so that they see if they are on the same page .
voila.
Not every successfull comic book movie has taken this approach no but it wouldn't hurt if Singer tried something like this.

Mike Mignola who created Hellboy is heavily involved in the films, Jon Favreau consulted a group of comic book writers (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=302014) and artists for Iron Man and the same was done on The Dark Knight where Jerry Robinson consulted (http://www.cov.com/news/detail.aspx?news=1266).

[SatEL]

I could think of a group of about 10 posters on this board that would result in a good test group at the least, if not a group that could brainstorm a brilliant plot line for a sequel.

I would love to see that, I mean must of the ideas I have heard has something to do with either Jason saving the day and Superman dead to have Jason take his place or Richard and Jason travelling or some crap like that.

[Billy Batson]

Ok the first one I'm going with is the obvious: Bruce Timm of TAS.



The consultant buck STOP right there. :applaud

[Ultimate_Superman]

Rucka and John is who I would hire as consultants.

[Superfreak]

I would love to see that, I mean must of the ideas I have heard has something to do with either Jason saving the day and Superman dead to have Jason take his place or Richard and Jason travelling or some crap like that.

Jason should save the day... but at a price. And it should be glorious

[Nightwing1977]

There are a number of possibilities with Geoff Johns being a top candidate because of his success as a Superman writer, affiliation with Richard Donner and willingness to actually be involved in a Superman movie.:up:

For artistic influence it would be great if they could get Alex Ross and/or Jim Lee to be involved in some way. Ross seems(ed) interested in notion of working with Singer.

Source:http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/features/alexross/default_5.asp

Not every successfull comic book movie has taken this approach no but it wouldn't hurt if Singer tried something like this.

Mike Mignola who created Hellboy is heavily involved in the films, Jon Favreau consulted a group of comic book writers (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=302014) and artists for Iron Man and the same was done on The Dark Knight where Jerry Robinson consulted (http://www.cov.com/news/detail.aspx?news=1266).

Interesting. I like the idea of Ross or Johns being consultant on MoS, despite thinking Ross is an ass & has an ego as big as his head. But why would he be fine with doing MoS? He dislike Routh being hired with saying he doesn't have a body like Atlas along with being a Welling's fan. Not to mention he dislike the SR suit since it was a little different. Funny, but he did the same thing on Spider-Man & Green Goblin when he show how he would make the costume look like in the films. What a hypocrite there. I guess he wouldn't mind doing MoS to get lots of money. :p