Watching The World Burn: The RPG Boards' Dark Knight Discussion

[Batman]

WARNING: As of the creation of this thread, The Dark Knight is not yet in theaters. But due to a considerable amount of clips already released, it is still possible to be spoiled on certain plot points and/or select scenes from the film upon viewing this thread. Simply put, if you don't want to be spoiled, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER.

You have been warned. Any complaints of spoiler material will thusly be removed.

DISCLAIMER: THE DARK KNIGHT, BATMAN, THE JOKER, and all related works are property of WARNER BROS. PICTURES, LEGENDARY PICTURES, and DC COMICS. Superhero Hype! and all moderating staff reserve the right to remove any copyrighted material. All rights reserved.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/BatmanRPG/The%20Dark%20Knight/Batman5-3.jpg

[Batman]

TRAILERS
All trailers originate from YouTube.com

Teaser Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtfxRaj377A)

Trailer 1 "Why So Serious?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIR9dAZRR0)

Theatrical Trailer "Here's my card." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PPh-C9pRU)

International Trailer "Civilized people?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsGFf8qJ5ow)

Domino's Pizza(TM) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn5ivFB1AbE)

WIZARD WORLD Chicago Teaser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReFeeZmYLBY)

CLIPS
Clips originate from IGN.com and YouTube.com

Batman Has No Limits (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip1_070108.html)

If You're Not Getting Shot... (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip2_070108.html)

I've Heard All About You (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip3_070108.html)

We Need Lau Back (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip4_070108.html)

A Travel Agent (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip5_070108.html)

Break In (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip6_070108.html)

Going To Come After You (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip7_070108.html)

Better Class Of Criminal (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip8_070108.html)

You Cannot Ask Me To Wait (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip9_070108.html)

He Can't Endure This (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip10_070108.html)

Batman Will Have To Answer (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip11_070108.html)

There's A Batman (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/752133/the-dark-knight/videos/dk_clip12_070108.html)

Where Is Harvey Dent? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu1brC5u58)

Half (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ls2ONrO--A)

TV SPOTS
Clips originate from YouTube.com and TheMovieBox.net

#1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vEau49Q-Jg)
#2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGFX-iD_HH4)
#3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgG_xVAG4Q)
#4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fd7IY_sRJY)
#5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1vJaibHE5s)
#6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULZpjkWNo0)
#7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67-poSYpVP0)
#8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sktZWzBKuFc)
#9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwEeLJ5UqwY)
#10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB9e-D_m5iA)
#11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cJK5J8SPck)
#12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lo578I-HIA)
#13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiZ-e0k50yc)
#14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5fv3pvHzm0)
#15 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKVMJK5NEY)

POSTERS
1-7. All other posters can be found throughout this thread (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=269430).

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/364/postersmalljn6.jpg

http://www.studioofa.net/batpics/darkknightintbig.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7383/18876223xf5.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5614/poster4sg8.jpg

http://www.whysoserious.com/itsallpartoftheplan/images/201949id1_a.jpg

http://www.omelete.com.br/images/galerias/thedarkknight/posterexclusivoomelete5.jpg

http://www.omelete.com.br/images/galerias/thedarkknight/posterexclusivoomelete6.jpg

[twylight]

You're so lenient. Just make them go to the Bat boards! :o It's not a long walk. ;-;

[Batman]

No, but it's a dangerous one. :csad:

[Eddie Brock]

All the new TV spots...too much to handle...*faint*

[Batman]

I loved the opening sequence of spot fourteen. It's so bizzarre to see Bruce actually relaxing in such a manner in a live action movie, yet it's so right out of the comics. :D

Plus - Batman with white lenses. Finally.

[Andy C.]

Not to be dick-ish, but isn't there already, like, a whole forum devoted to this exact subject?

[Batman]

I have to patrol the place every day, so yes, I'm aware of the place's existence. But that didn't stop the discussion about it in the Coffee Shop thread, where our people were constantly talking about spoilers other people wanted to avoid (and spoiler tags were a bit of an annoyance). That's why this thread exists - I even asked beforehand if people wanted this to be made. Everyone who chimed in did.

[Eddie Brock]

I loved the opening sequence of spot fourteen. It's so bizzarre to see Bruce actually relaxing in such a manner in a live action movie, yet it's so right out of the comics. :D

Plus - Batman with white lenses. Finally.
I'm actually not a fan of how the lenses look. Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in action.

Hahahahahehehehehohohoho...

That laugh is so evil on so many levels.

[Charlie No-One]

Even though I agree that this thread should be in the Bat forums since it has absolutely nothing to do with RPG's....

Did anyone hear the score on youtube?

Amazing.

[Eddie Brock]

I don't get where all of you naysayers are coming from. You had your chance to speak up when the topic was discussed in the Coffee Shop. End of story. The thread's here. Deal.

EDIT: However, what I did hear of the soundtrack, I loved. "Harvey Two-Face" in particular is a moving track.

[Charlie No-One]

Not all of us are in that thread. I don't really care if this is here or not, I just don't see the point when there is a whole forum dedicated to this.

[Eddie Brock]

Not all of us are in that thread. I don't really care if this is here or not, I just don't see the point when there is a whole forum dedicated to this.
The point is that it keeps us from posting spoilers in the Coffee Shop. We don't know the TDK community. We know each other.

[Charlie No-One]

Understandable, but can't you talk to each other in the Bat forums?

[Batman]

The Bat-boards aren't exactly the most civil of places, especially right now. I completely understood how a couple of our guys wouldn't want to tread foot over there.

I just made this thread to isolate the spoiler talk from the Coffee Shop. After a few weeks post-TDK release, I'll be happy to merge this with the chat thread... for now, I just want people like Keyser, wieg, and Byrd, who've been avoiding spoilers, to not stumble upon it in the Coffee Shop.

[Charlie No-One]

Fair enough.

[Eddie Brock]

Scratch what I said before. "Harvey Two-Face" isn't a moving track. It's a very moving track. It's quickly rising up my favorites list (as far as instrumental scores are concerned).

[Batman]

Oh man, am I giddy. :D

Well, not really giddy, as I spent a fortune on clothes today for an upcoming three-day weekend event I'm attending with my family, but I'm very pleased with the notion that I finally managed to purchase and recieve my ticket for The Dark Knight. And what a beaut she is... the Harvey/Joker/Batman poster on it's slip, I'd be half tempted to hang the thing on my wall if I didn't have to use it to get my seat on opening night. :o

I also got two Bat-related books: The Art Of Batman Begins, which is a rare find around these parts, and Batman And Philosophy: The Dark Knight Of The Soul, a rather interesting book that actually explores the philisophical logic behind some of Batman's greatest psychological troubles (Such as his strong unwillingness to kill The Joker, and putting a twelve year old in tights to fight crime on a nightly basis.) Both are highly recommended, from what little I've read. :up:

[Gallagher]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/Gray_Fox_Lives/achievement.jpg

:heart: this thread.

[Eddie Brock]

Last night, my dream was supposed to be TDK.

Let's just say...be glad Nolan's directing this, and not my unconscious.

[Gallagher]

Last night, my dream was supposed to be TDK.

Let's just say...be glad Nolan's directing this, and not my unconscious.

Subconscious. :)

[Eddie Brock]

Subconscious. :)
Dreams are where you unconscious and your conscious minds interact.

EDIT: http://neuroconcept.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/consciousness.gif

I took a Psychology class last school year, and I passed. I know my stuff. :yay:

[Gallagher]

Aye but from a grammatical standpoint subconcsious seems to make more sense.

Never mind I'm just being a gramma ****.

[Eddie Brock]

Aye but from a grammatical standpoint subconcsious seems to make more sense.

Never mind I'm just being a gramma ****.
I supposed I should have said, "unconscious mind," but technically unconscious is a state of mind - not just the state of being blacked out.

[Green Lantern]

I supposed I should have said, "unconscious mind," but technically unconscious is a state of mind - not just the state of being blacked out.Correct :up: That is is you wish to be all Freudian Psychoanalytic about it... :p I prefer to go more of a Maslowian route myself.

[Eddie Brock]

Correct :up: That is is you wish to be all Freudian Psychoanalytic about it... :p I prefer to go more of a Maslowian route myself.
Crazy Abraham Maslow and his Hierarchy of Needs...

[Green Lantern]

Gotham Knight :up:

[Venom160]

Honestly I didnt care for Gotham Knight.

:takes cover:

[Eddie Brock]

[PETER GRIFFIN] I did not care for The Godfather. [/PETER GRIFFIN]

:hehe:

(That's just a joke, by the way.)

[Batman]

Honestly I didnt care for Gotham Knight.

:takes cover:

:ghost:

LET YOUR VARIOUS SOULS BE ETERNALLY MARKED FOR THE PUNISHMENT OF A THOUSAND HELLFIRES OVER.

:ghost:

:yay:

Honestly, yeah, I can see why people wouldn't care for it. But I personally loved the hell out of it.

[Eddie Brock]

I would have to imagine that if anime weren't your thing, you might have a hard time truly enjoying Gotham Knight. I can't really talk 'cause I haven't seen it yet.

[Batman]

Well, I've always hated anime and manga. Dragon Ball Z being a reluctant exception, but everything else has been unimpressive for me. But there's something symbiotic about it and Batman, especially given it's presentation in six forms. Not all of those forms I were a fan of, mind you, but the ones that worked rocked.

Take this example:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/BatmanRPG/Anime/cap146.jpg
Now, to me, I don't look at that as anime. I look at it as Batman, period. This, however...

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/BatmanRPG/Anime/cap149.jpg

Well, let's just say the heritage is rather obvious, to the point that it's distracting.

[Eddie Brock]

Well, I've always hated anime and manga. Dragon Ball Z being a reluctant exception, but everything else has been unimpressive for me. But there's something symbiotic about it and Batman, especially given it's presentation in six forms. Not all of those forms I were a fan of, mind you, but the ones that worked rocked.

Take this example:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/BatmanRPG/Anime/cap146.jpg
Now, to me, I don't look at that as anime. I look at it as Batman, period. This, however...

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/BatmanRPG/Anime/cap149.jpg

Well, let's just say the heritage is rather obvious, to the point that it's distracting.
That looks like Hawk-Owl. And that's not a good thing - not in this case.

[Green Lantern]

I would have to imagine that if anime weren't your thing, you might have a hard time truly enjoying Gotham Knight. I can't really talk 'cause I haven't seen it yet.I hate Anime, and I loved Gotham Knight.

[Venom160]

I like anime but this just didnt entertain me. If some of the stories were alittle longer (the Scarecrow and Killer Croc story in particular) than it might've been better. Though I did like the story that showed what happened to the Narrows after Batman Begins. :up:

[Eddie Brock]

What an endgame for the viral marketing, huh? Can we have a round of applause, please? I'm bummed that there are no screenings near me, but I'll live - hopefully.

[Blacklight]

Does anyone here have any links to the leaked Two-Face pics I keep hearing about? I've tried googling but I don't know if the ones that come up are real or fake...

[Eddie Brock]

Seriously, why are you using blackout tags in here? This is a spoiler thread. MB warns people from the very first post. Furthermore, knowing about leaked pictures isn't a spoiler. If I were to post them, that would be a spoiler.

And it would get me banned (but that's neither here nor there).

[MinNoir]

Hmm I bought my tickets for TDK in June. Now I just have to camp it out for my seat. Hehe, I bought my tickets when I went to see Get Smart if that's any indication of how much I actually want to see this movie. On another note I will be purchasing Gotham Knight because while I'm not a big animé person (expect for Bleach). I love Batman, point blank end of statement. I will also be going to Six Flags to ride the Dark Knight coaster, when that will be I don't know but damn it I will ride that coaster because my Six Flags is nothing but a Superman hoo-ha.

[Eddie Brock]

I don't have the words. I really don't. This movie took every expectation and blew them away.

[Spike_x1]

Utterly amazing movie.

[Eddie Brock]

Y'know, you see snippets of his performance in the trailers, and you hear all of these critics praising him...but nothing can prepare you for what Heath Ledger does. The Joker is a chilling combination of hilarious and terrifying. He's either making you laugh, or he's disturbing you on a very deep level.

[Green Lantern]

So its Heath channeling Keyser? :o

[Charlie No-One]

I don't know what to make of it yet. I think had some flaws. The pacing was odd. It was good, but I don't know. I will have to see it again I think.

[Eddie Brock]

So its Heath channeling Keyser? :o
No offense to Keyser, but there is no person on this Earth that can ever hope to replicate a Joker performance like Heath's. As Gary Oldman said in an interview, this isn't the kind of deal where all the good stuff is in the trailers. You really have to go to the movie and see the performance to understand its brilliance. I can't praise Heath Ledger enough. He encapsulated everything that's good about every Joker interpretation, and the movie nailed the Batman/Joker relationship. The latter can be attributed more to the writing, however - especially the interrogation scene and the Joker's final speech of the movie. It's clear that these guys just get the Joker. They know how he operates, they know what he thinks, and those scenes sealed the deal for me. Perfect is an understatement.

As for Two-Face, what can I say? I don't think we'll ever have to think about Tommy Lee Jones ever again. The visuals are astounding - very TLH-esque - and his lines are perfect.

[Blacklight]

Just saw the movie, and I have to say, that despite not being the major Batman fan everyone else is around here, I can avidly say that this movie was one of the best, if not THE best comic book superhero movie EVER, and probably can do good in keeping that rank until Batman 3 by Nolan comes out. Don't even THINK about not going as soon as you can, because Bat-fan or no Bat-fan, you MUST see this. Ledger was the true show-stealer, and his performance can go down in movie history as one of the greatest villainous performances of all time. Next to him was Eckhart, who was the definitive Harvey Dent, and portrayed him how he should've been portrayed. And Bale continues to deliver doing a great job as the Batman. Freeman and Caine continued to throw in their acting experience to perfect their roles. The only person in the movie who didn't move me (as I expected) was Gylenhaal. She sucked. Moving on, this movie was bat**** insane awesomeness! The visuals were astounding, the acting was unforgettable, and the characters were something to be remembered.

[Byrd Man]

Saw it last night, I had an orgasm during the magic trick scene, soon I was cuming every few minutes until I had to be scrapped off the theatre floor.

[Eddie Brock]

Saw it last night, I had an orgasm during the magic trick scene, soon I was cuming every few minutes until I had to be scrapped off the theatre floor.
It took you until the magic trick scene to orgasm? I orgasmed as soon as I saw the blue flames with the bat symbol. That's when it hit me that this was real.

[Byrd Man]

I must have better stamina than you.

[Green Lantern]

No offense to Keyser, but there is no person on this Earth that can ever hope to replicate a Joker performance like Heath's. As Gary Oldman said in an interview, this isn't the kind of deal where all the good stuff is in the trailers. You really have to go to the movie and see the performance to understand its brilliance. I can't praise Heath Ledger enough. He encapsulated everything that's good about every Joker interpretation, and the movie nailed the Batman/Joker relationship. The latter can be attributed more to the writing, however - especially the interrogation scene and the Joker's final speech of the movie. It's clear that these guys just get the Joker. They know how he operates, they know what he thinks, and those scenes sealed the deal for me. Perfect is an understatement.

As for Two-Face, what can I say? I don't think we'll ever have to think about Tommy Lee Jones ever again. The visuals are astounding - very TLH-esque - and his lines are perfect.After seeing it... I fullheartedly agree. Thank you Heath. Thank you.

[Eddie Brock]

I now stand vehemently against recasting the Joker. I was always against the idea, but - now that I know what we're dealing with - I will be unbelievably angry if they recast.

[Blacklight]

There is no recasting that shear brilliance. The utter thought would make Nolan's thrid film fail miserably.

[Green Lantern]

I now stand vehemently against recasting the Joker. I was always against the idea, but - now that I know what we're dealing with - I will be unbelievably angry if they recast.Yeah, Joker is forever Heath Ledger in my eyes. Mark Hamill be damned. Jack Nicholson can rot in Hell. Cesar Romero can suck a nut.

[Blacklight]

Yeah, Joker is forever Heath Ledger in my eyes. Mark Hamill be damned. Jack Nicholson can rot in Hell. Cesar Romero can suck a nut.
Sig worthy.

[Batman]

I'm going to be posting a full out, spoiler filled review tommorow, but... needless to say, all of my fanboys dreams came true tonight. Not only was the legend of Batman represented to the fullest capacity imaginable, but I had heartstrings that were plucked by characters I've known inside and out since I was four. This isn't just a film... it's a masterpiece. And I truly wish I could thank all involved for a job very well done.

Quite simply? Go. Go see The Dark Knight. If you've seen it once, see it twice. If you've seen it twice, see it thrice. See it as many times as you can, because this is an experience you won't soon forget.

[Blacklight]

MB! MSN please! I want to talk TDK!

[SenseiofCheese]

So, I guess you can put me down for a case of the 'Oh my God, that was so beautiful I want to cut my eyes out and preserve them, for they shall never be laid upon such majesty again'.

[Green Lantern]

Its just as good the third time :o

[Eddie Brock]

Its just as good the third time :o
I'll know tomorrow. :o

[Batman]

I already knew that this afternoon. :D

[Eddie Brock]

In fact, if my friend is serious, I'll know how good it is the fourth time by tomorrow, too! :wow:

[Green Lantern]

I'll know how good it is the fourth time by Friday :o

[Eddie Brock]

My head is still exploding from the thought of seeing TDK twice in one night. My wallet cries, but my heart rejoices.

[Catman_prb]

Well I've just seen it. Good god above. Words do not describe.

[SenseiofCheese]

You know, my heart skipped a beat when the Joker said "You and I are destined to do this forever." to Batman. Knowing Heath won't be able to fulfill that promise is really sad :csad:

I am, however, ecstatic that my favorite villain ever, Two-Face, got the portrayal he deserved, finally. Eckhart, in my opinion, was the one actor in this movie to match Heath's performance. The scene between those two in the hospital is my favorite scene, in any movie, ever.

[Gallagher]

Just got back from seeing it.

End the series here. Cannot improve upon perfection.

RIP Heath Ledger. I'm so very sorry you won't be able to fulfill Joker's promise of battling the Bat forever.

[Catman_prb]

I second that. From the heart.

[SenseiofCheese]

Honestly, if I can't see Heath's Joker and Batman fight their fight forever, as the Joker so accurately predicted, I'm not sure I want to see any more.

And as a sidenote, they took Two-Face, one of the most tragic villains, IMO, and made him even MORE tragic, with his relationship with Rachel. And damn, what about the letter! Bruce thinking Rachel was going to wait for him, and Harvey knowing she would have married him.

This is the best movie I've ever seen. I'm still riding high.

[Batman]

Honestly, I've heard that, and I still think there's plenty of room for a sequel to be made that can be both entertaining and satisfying. The Batman mythos don't end with The Joker and Two-Face.

However, will it be as good? Probably not. Ledger and Eckhart both set the bar way too high for any successors to the villain mantle, be they a Catwoman, a Riddler, a Bane, or a Penguin. Even the most perfect translations of those characters could still hardly compare to what was done with those two.

[The Question]

I'm sure that, prior to Ledger's death, the plan would have been to show Gotham devolving into anarchy in the wake of The Joker's antics and the mob's destruction, having various Batman villains pop up and The Joker in a smaller role watching everything he predicted happen from Arkham. It could still happen, but without Ledger as The Joker, it wouldn't be as spectacular as it could have been.

[Batman]

:csad:

[SenseiofCheese]

The mythos surely doesn't end with Two-Face and Joker, but it does peak, in my opinion. It seems to me that no matter what villain they go for next, he/she won't come close to having the same impact Heath and Aaron had. Almost all the villains that are left would reduce the movie to the old

Villain origin > hero meets villain and loses > hero learns a lesson > hero defeats villain.

[Eddie Brock]

Yep, it's official. I just watched TDK twice in one night - back to back. It still never loses its edge.

[Eddie Brock]

I think Numero Cinco is going to be the final time for me. It sounds like my family is planning on seeing TDK when we go on vacation mid-August, and that would bring my tally to five times. We'll see what opportunities the future brings, but - for now - I've been satiated.

[Harlekin]

Okay, I'm probably going to be torn to pieces for this, but I wouldn't give The Dark Knight more than a solid 7 out of 10. Maybe the hype got to me, but it just wasn't as impressive as I hoped. While a great job was done all around with the characters, I just couldn't feel it. The Batman/Joker conflict relied, to my taste, too much on the fact that we automatically link the two and consider them archnemesises, rather than what was actually shown in the film.

And yes, I actually thought Two-Face was more awesome than the Joker. His scenes and the whole begin bit with the Chinese businessmen and Maroni were actually my favourite parts of the movie.

[Belvedere]

Okay, I'm probably going to be torn to pieces for this, but I wouldn't give The Dark Knight more than a solid 7 out of 10. Maybe the hype got to me, but it just wasn't as impressive as I hoped. While a great job was done all around with the characters, I just couldn't feel it. The Batman/Joker conflict relied, to my taste, too much on the fact that we automatically link the two and consider them archnemesises, rather than what was actually shown in the film.

And yes, I actually thought Two-Face was more awesome than the Joker. His scenes and the whole begin bit with the Chinese businessmen and Maroni were actually my favourite parts of the movie.

I've got to agree with Harl here, I thought Two-Face (but more specifically, Harvey Dent) was portrayed the best in the movie.

Shame we won't be seeing much more of him. :csad:

I really don't think that we'll see a more complete portrayl of either Joker or Harvey Dent/Two-Face in any media for a long while, if ever.

It's going to take alot to top this if they make a third, however I said that after I saw the first one and somehow they managed to pull it off, so I'm not going to rule it out.

[Batman]

Eh. I wouldn't say you should get torn to pieces. It's actually a bit refreshing to see a different opinion from the norm, if that makes any sense. :huh:

[Eddie Brock]

$300k+ in 10 days tends to disagree with you, Harl. :o But I won't crucify you for your opinion.

[SenseiofCheese]

I do agree with the parts of the movie focusing on Dent were the most engaging, definitely my favorite scenes. Not so much on the 7/10, but I do respect your opnion.

*sharpens knives*

[Harlekin]

One of my friends already described me as certifiably insane. I have a feeling it will probably hold up better for me the second time, that the hype ended up getting to me, but I'm sorry, I just didn't feel it. The battle between the Batman and Joker just wasn't there. I didn't, aside from Dent, Gordon, Lucius and Alfred, believe it. And I don't mean that in the 'it wasn't realistic sense'. I just felt like the movie relied more heavily on the explosions and the intrinsic power of the Batman/Joker conflict than it actually did on character and story development (Two-Face aside).

For all it's worth, the Joker did not progress as a character. As the villain, he does not necessarily have to, but it feels kinda wrong when the hero doesn't either. Batman felt like a supporting character rather than a hero, which is why I totally dug the first act of the film, since it focussed much more on Batman.

This film, to me at least, should've been Batman: The Dark Knight.

It was Joker Begins.

As to the final nail in the coffin: Ledger wasn't that good. Rather flat in some cases even.

I don't know, the hype probably got me down.

[SenseiofCheese]

As to the final nail in the coffin: Ledger wasn't that good. Rather flat in some cases even.


Oh, wow. I mean no disrespect, but I don't think I've ever disagreed more with someone.

[Harlekin]

I'm not saying he was bad, not at all. Like I said, he's good, but I don't think he deserves an Oscar like some people seem to think.

[Eddie Brock]

Oh, wow. I mean no disrespect, but I don't think I've ever disagreed more with someone.
Seconded.

[Eddie Brock]

Look on the bright side, Harl: if you share your opinion with the wrong person, you'll be able to say, "Know how I got these scars?"

[Catman_prb]

You've been working on that all day haven't you.

[Eddie Brock]

You've been working on that all day haven't you.
Look on the bright side, Catman: you'll be able--

[Harlekin]

I know my opinion isn't the popular one. I'll be seeing the movie again Thursday to see if I was 'wrong'. I fear I won't be.