Batman - Villain?

[Cinemaman]

I decided to start the thread as a suggestion of a new idea of possible third film's development.

As we know, Nolan loves to always amaze us by choosing to introduce fresh ideas, especially in superhero genre. And, as such great villians as Joke, Two-Face and Scarecrowe have already been used, isn't he going to give a Batman a new view - a view of villian to Gotham? Don't you think police will start hunting batman till they finally catch him, bring to the trial and leave in Arkham, where he will be the prisoner?

That's just my speculation, and yes, I think this idea deserves its own thread :)

Oh, and, I am sorry for my mistake in the thread's title.

[Cinemaman]

I guess everybody is busy talking about who's going to play the Riddler, although it's not even confirmed that he's going to be the main theme in the third film (and I am not even talking about his appearance).

[warren_sparta27]

Well your idea is basically what people that have seen the film have been saying will happen in the next film due to some events at the end of TDK.

[Cinemaman]

And has anybody except me suggested the idea of Batman as a prisoner of Arkham yet?

[Nepenthes]

yeah if Batman is the villain then what does that make the Riddler? If he's on TV solving crimes and puzzles then he must be the good guy. And what happens when Catwoman starts handing out jewelry in the Narrows, she's a good girl too then right

[warren_sparta27]

No offense but the idea of Batman as an Arkham patient on film doesn't sound right to me.
That would mean that his identity would have to be revealed to the public, and he'd have to be declared insane.
Yeah Batman's abit crazy, but full on insane, don't think so.
And as far as his identity being know to the public that's a movie killer right there.
Happened in Spider-Man 2 and that scene totally wrecked it for me, and i didn't bother with it after that point.

[Cinemaman]

Catwoman? People are still thinking she will ever appear in this trilogy? I doubt there will be even a hint about her. And The Riddler? Can't he be one of the Arkham prisoners.

Gotham will never forget what batman did to its people and Harvey, so I doubt that even Bruce will do the same to his alter ego and that what will make him change his methods to fighting dirty and killing his enemies. So that will be another reason for police to bring him to trial and then to Arkham. I also think, as Gotham will become a very depressive place to live, people there will start doing crazy things and there will be some kind anarchy begun as post-Joker period.

[Cinemaman]

No offense but the idea of Batman as an Arkham patient on film doesn't sound right to me.
That would mean that his identity would have to be revealed to the public, and he'd have to be declared insane.
Yeah Batman's abit crazy, but full on insane, don't think so.
And as far as his identity being know to the public that's a movie killer right there.
Happened in Spider-Man 2 and that scene totally wrecked it for me, and i didn't bother with it after that point.

His identity doesn't have to be revealed. I remember watching one episode from TAS, where the same happened to him and other villians started their own trial over him in Arkham to take revenge.

[warren_sparta27]

So you want Batman to go to Arkham still wearing his suit so his identity isn't revealed?
Remember that Nolan is basing this in reality, so i'm assuming the same laws and procedures would allow in his films. I can't see Batman being sent to Prisonn/ Arkham without the media and the public paying alot of attention to it, and without his identity being revealed.

[Cinemaman]

But as Gordon is a lieutenant, he could ask judge to keep Batman in his suit, as he would still have some hope for him. I am just thinking that the whole thing of Batman getting into Arkham is way better than just a usual superhero formula, where a hero fights a villain, and that's what Nolan is always trying o change in Batman franchise. He doesn't want it to be limited to genre ranks. Besides the whole idea of make a third film as a detective thriller seems vagues and more like a sub-theme to the whole film.

[warren_sparta27]

No offense but I'm not a fan of the going to Arkham thing.
Like i said Nolan is big on his reality and the judge letting Batman keep his suit because Jim Gordon asks nicely I don't think that would work in real life, and i sure as hell don't want to see it in a Nolan film.
I understand that Nolan wants to reinvent the comic book film, but i don't think this is the way he'll go, besides it sounds too much like the rumored Green Arrow film Supermax anyway.

[Cinemaman]

Ummm, ok, then what approach would you like Nolan to go with?

[Arc]

Funny enough Batman was sent to Arkham twice once in the opening story arc of 'the shadow of th bat' series

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_The_Last_Arkham

Having read it at the time I remember that Jeremiah Arkham said he wanted Batman to reveal his identity to him as part of his mental treatment.

another time was in the animated series. I haven't seen this episode but here is a summary from wiki

"Dreams In Darkness" 028 Dick Sebast Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens
November 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_3), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992) Summary: Batman has been incarcerated in Arkham Asylum after being exposed to fear gas and having hallucinations to the point that he actually drives the Batmobile off the road (he thought he was about to crash into Robin). Batman knows that the Scarecrow has escaped for the second time and is planning to dump his fear toxin into the water supply. Can Batman bring himself to break the law and escape from Arkham before the Scarecrow brings Gotham to its knees?
some similarities with BB me thinks?

[Cinemaman]

^^^

Thanks for the info, the idea only proves that there is nothing that can't happen in Batman's world.

[warren_sparta27]

I can believe that in a Batman comic him being locked up in Arkham has been done. The thing is though, as i keep saying is Nolan is basing this is reality. There is no reality in letting a man dressed as a Bat with thousands of dollars of weapons and equipment waltz into a mental asylum without his identity being known. It can work in the comics, but in a realistic approach of the Batman stories it wouldn't happen. Could that happen in real life, No, no way in hell. And that's why i don't want to see it happen in a Nolan direct Batman film.

As for how i would want the next film to progress I'm still uncertain. I just know what i don't want the direction to be.

[Cinemaman]

I am just getting tured of all that "Nolan's realism" s***, because this term is so overused that I am about to kill anybody, who mentions it.

Anyway, warren, I see that you're uncertain and that's why you don't consider any other ideas as possible directions, but when Nolan will note that he is going with this or that choice already suggested by someone among us, you'll love it. So if nolan tries to bring "Batman in Arkham" into reality, you'll surely say that it works in his universe and forget about his realism.

And, as you don't like this idea, then why do you keep posting here? We've already realized that!

[Nightmare]

So if they took him to arkham they'd unveal to all of gotham that Batman is indeed bruce wayne? I dont like that idea.

[DACrowe]

Bad idea. You want them to unmask Batman and make it about him in Arkham? No thanks. Try that with Iron Man, or where you probably got the idea with Hancock. This will not work with Batman nor should it.

P.S. I saw a mention of SM2. Not to get off topic how did Peter's identity get revealed on the train? Did any of them mknow who Peter Parker is or is he famous? Nope.

[Cinemaman]

^^^

Have you read all my posts? As I can guess, NO! I said that Batman didn't have to be unmasked!!!

For God's sake, I don't get you people! You need to ask a man thousand times to make sure that Harvey Dent will die in the movie and I am not amazed that equal quantity of posts are needed to convince you that my idea DOES NOT include Batman being unmasked!!! Can you read?

[Killing Joke926]

Ummm, ok, then what approach would you like Nolan to go with?

Well, from what we've seen in BB was how Bruce Wayne trains, becomes, and basically begins his life as BatMan; and in TDK it goes to how he's going to handle the responsibility and whether or not if Bruce Wayne is his mask or is it BatMan. And which everyone got the exact words from Rachel actually forshadowing that piece of TDK plot at the end of Begins; so with that said, now that we've had BatMan begin and chosen how to live his life as both Wayne and BatMan, what approach would you be aiming for man? :word: :brucebat:

[Nightmare]

^^^

Have you read all my posts? As I can guess, NO! I said that Batman didn't have to be unmasked!!!

For God's sake, I don't get you people! You need to ask a man thousand times to make sure that Harvey Dent will die in the movie and I am not amazed that equal quantity of posts are needed to convince you that my idea DOES NOT include Batman being unmasked!!! Can you read?

Well someone is upset. :whatever:

[spideyman101]

I find this a very interesting idea, and I've thought of it myself in the past few days...

Two-Face dies in TDK (so I doubt he'll use him :oldrazz: )

and I'm positive Nolan will have enough compassion to not recast Joker and just have him a mystery. But what we do have...

is at the end, Batman takes the blame for Two-Face's killings, and now he is basically a fugitive.

What I am posting, it is almost a necessity to read the spoiler tags, btw. :oldrazz:

So now who's the obvious villain to come into the picture? The villain who knows Batman's identity! The Riddler. Riddler will discover Batman's identity and then riddle and clue in the GPD as to who it is. Batman is forced to kill Riddler in order to save his identity, but this just puts him into more sinking sand.

Maroni is killed in TDK

So we need a new crime boss... who's the perfect choice? Black Mask. Black Mask will try to unite Gotham's criminal syndicate under one banner.

The Dark Knight against The Black Mask.

SHADOW OF THE BAT
Black Mask
The Riddler

And in the midst of all this, the GPD is bent on getting custody of Batman and in one scene they actually do... they interrogate him and place him in Arkham. The Riddler is also in there. Batman manages to escape, and in the process Riddler escapes with him.

I tell you, I'm getting more and more interested with this 3rd film... and it's not even begun script writing yet! :oldrazz:

[spideyman101]

I am just getting tured of all that "Nolan's realism" s***, because this term is so overused that I am about to kill anybody, who mentions it.

Anyway, warren, I see that you're uncertain and that's why you don't consider any other ideas as possible directions, but when Nolan will note that he is going with this or that choice already suggested by someone among us, you'll love it. So if nolan tries to bring "Batman in Arkham" into reality, you'll surely say that it works in his universe and forget about his realism.

And, as you don't like this idea, then why do you keep posting here? We've already realized that!

"Nolan's Realism" is what he has chosen to use in his films. Any idea you have has got to be based within realism. He's got a good routine going here, let's not ruin it by "fan demands"... but at the same time, I like this idea of Batman going to Arkham.

I'm sure Nolan can think of a good reason for Batman to still be in his mask... like you've said, maybe Gordon will plea with the GPD to leave his mask on. At least have him interrogated, and for that he doesn't have to have his mask off.

... actually... why not have them attempt to remove his mask and he begin to beat up the mask-remover. They decide to let him sit there with his mask on. An Arkham doctor then tries to persuade him to remove it, saying it'll help his mental health.

I do hope, however, that you are not insinuating that Batman be the only villain for the 3rd film... O.o

[Laderlappen]

I know that the realism isnt THAT realsitic with a guy dressing up as a bat, cars jumping on roofs ect. But putting a man in jail without identifying him is something really unrealistic even for a fantasy or a science fiction movie. Its not logical.

[Cinemaman]

Well someone is upset. :whatever:

Yes, I am upset with you not getting a simple thing even after making me to repeat it several times.

[Cinemaman]

I find this a very interesting idea, and I've thought of it myself in the past few days...

Two-Face dies in TDK (so I doubt he'll use him :oldrazz: )

and I'm positive Nolan will have enough compassion to not recast Joker and just have him a mystery. But what we do have...

is at the end, Batman takes the blame for Two-Face's killings, and now he is basically a fugitive.

What I am posting, it is almost a necessity to read the spoiler tags, btw. :oldrazz:

So now who's the obvious villain to come into the picture? The villain who knows Batman's identity! The Riddler. Riddler will discover Batman's identity and then riddle and clue in the GPD as to who it is. Batman is forced to kill Riddler in order to save his identity, but this just puts him into more sinking sand.

Maroni is killed in TDK

So we need a new crime boss... who's the perfect choice? Black Mask. Black Mask will try to unite Gotham's criminal syndicate under one banner.

The Dark Knight against The Black Mask.

SHADOW OF THE BAT
Black Mask
The Riddler

And in the midst of all this, the GPD is bent on getting custody of Batman and in one scene they actually do... they interrogate him and place him in Arkham. The Riddler is also in there. Batman manages to escape, and in the process Riddler escapes with him.

I tell you, I'm getting more and more interested with this 3rd film... and it's not even begun script writing yet! :oldrazz:

Honestly recasting Joker is no way equal to recasting Rachel, so I am agreed with you.

And I think the idea of Riddler learning about Batman's true identity willw ork, as he may get Batman to the killing point. ANd that's what will lead Bruce to the question, is Batman supposed to save people or kill them in order to save others? Or, is his secret so important that it requires him to kill someone?

Although, I like the concept of a new mob, but I am not sure with The black Mask. Besides, gangs may unite with police in chasing Batman and even help them. This will increase the corruption in the city and everything will get back to the Batman Begins point, where people don't know who they can trust. There may be even economic problem, which will cause to changing the mayor.

But I don't think Batman should unite with Riddler to escape from Arkham. They should stay as enemies, and Riddler may even rise prisoners against Batman in order to have their own trial over him.

There are many ways, from which the story may be continued and further developed.

[Cinemaman]

"Nolan's Realism" is what he has chosen to use in his films. Any idea you have has got to be based within realism. He's got a good routine going here, let's not ruin it by "fan demands"... but at the same time, I like this idea of Batman going to Arkham.

I'm sure Nolan can think of a good reason for Batman to still be in his mask... like you've said, maybe Gordon will plea with the GPD to leave his mask on. At least have him interrogated, and for that he doesn't have to have his mask off.

... actually... why not have them attempt to remove his mask and he begin to beat up the mask-remover. They decide to let him sit there with his mask on. An Arkham doctor then tries to persuade him to remove it, saying it'll help his mental health.

I do hope, however, that you are not insinuating that Batman be the only villain for the 3rd film... O.o

But the fact that he has a multimillionaire dressing into Bat suit every night to fight the crime is already unrealistic, isn't it?

Besides I really hope he won't go with what fans want (I mean stuff like Robin or Catwoman), because if he is not comfortable with it, then he shouldn't use it just to please everybody and ruin everything (Raimi is the ebst example).

Removing mask is a nice concept, I could picture it in the film.

No, no, no. I don't want batman to be the only villain to Gotham. I mean he has never been a villain himself, but he can be viewed as the greatest menace to people. In addition, there are many people, who blame Batman in living the rest of their lives in Arkham, so they could become his rivals. Riddler still seems to me a good choice, but there can be someone else behind him.

[spideyman101]

Honestly recasting Joker is no way equal to recasting Rachel, so I am agreed with you.

And I think the idea of Riddler learning about Batman's true identity willw ork, as he may get Batman to the killing point. ANd that's what will lead Bruce to the question, is Batman supposed to save people or kill them in order to save others? Or, is his secret so important that it requires him to kill someone?

Although, I like the concept of a new mob, but I am not sure with The black Mask. Besides, gangs may unite with police in chasing Batman and even help them. This will increase the corruption in the city and everything will get back to the Batman Begins point, where people don't know who they can trust. There may be even economic problem, which will cause to changing the mayor.

But I don't think Batman should unite with Riddler to escape from Arkham. They should stay as enemies, and Riddler may even rise prisoners against Batman in order to have their own trial over him.

There are many ways, from which the story may be continued and further developed.

I like you, you and me agree on a lot. :oldrazz:

btw, I wasn't saying Batman and Riddler should help each other escape. Just Batman escapes and Riddler manages to because of Batman (who accidentally helped him).

[DACrowe]

^^^

Have you read all my posts? As I can guess, NO! I said that Batman didn't have to be unmasked!!!

For God's sake, I don't get you people! You need to ask a man thousand times to make sure that Harvey Dent will die in the movie and I am not amazed that equal quantity of posts are needed to convince you that my idea DOES NOT include Batman being unmasked!!! Can you read?

I can read. Can you write a legible post without resulting in immature insults? No?

Your original post suggests that Batman be arrested, locked away in Arkham (which would mean psychiatric evaluation which would mean court date). To do this, to go through the psychological profiling and trial, you mean to tell me you honestly don't think in any realm, much less Nolan's "realistic" Gotham, they would not unmask the defendant? I see it now "The court calls Batman to the stand!" and he sits there in his mask and as they find him insane and lock him up no one, not even his doctors, would think of unmasking him and finding out why a grown man dresses up like a bat (which would be a main point of contention for psychiatric help).

Your idea is juvenile and idiotic. Sorry.

[wrhssaxensemble]

They won't do it, or at least not with how things stand now. Regardless of the issue of exposing his secret identity/keeping his mask on ( I am not entering that fire-fight), Supermax is already going to show the comic hero in prison surrounded by villains. I highly doubt WB/DC Comics would release a Batman film that has a sort of similar storyline to it, especially since they are slated ( I think) to come out around the same time

[returntovoid]

I think there was a BTAS episode in which Batman is in Arkham.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I find this a very interesting idea, and I've thought of it myself in the past few days...

Two-Face dies in TDK (so I doubt he'll use him :oldrazz: )

and I'm positive Nolan will have enough compassion to not recast Joker and just have him a mystery. But what we do have...

is at the end, Batman takes the blame for Two-Face's killings, and now he is basically a fugitive.

What I am posting, it is almost a necessity to read the spoiler tags, btw. :oldrazz:

So now who's the obvious villain to come into the picture? The villain who knows Batman's identity! The Riddler. Riddler will discover Batman's identity and then riddle and clue in the GPD as to who it is. Batman is forced to kill Riddler in order to save his identity, but this just puts him into more sinking sand.

Maroni is killed in TDK

So we need a new crime boss... who's the perfect choice? Black Mask. Black Mask will try to unite Gotham's criminal syndicate under one banner.

The Dark Knight against The Black Mask.

SHADOW OF THE BAT
Black Mask
The Riddler

And in the midst of all this, the GPD is bent on getting custody of Batman and in one scene they actually do... they interrogate him and place him in Arkham. The Riddler is also in there. Batman manages to escape, and in the process Riddler escapes with him.

I tell you, I'm getting more and more interested with this 3rd film... and it's not even begun script writing yet! :oldrazz:

Two-Face doesn't die in TDK. He returns in movie 3, he's presumed dead but Nolan and company says he returns in movie 3. Joker however, it's all up in the air if they'll recast or not. I'd like to see future films with the Joker with either Hugo Weaving or Daniel-Day Lewis as him. Lewis especially because I think all the adoration and praise he gave Heath, somewhere up above, Heath would want it.

[wrhssaxensemble]

Two-Face doesn't die in TDK. He returns in movie 3, he's presumed dead but Nolan and company says he returns in movie 3. Joker however, it's all up in the air if they'll recast or not. I'd like to see future films with the Joker with either Hugo Weaving or Daniel-Day Lewis as him. Lewis especially because I think all the adoration and praise he gave Heath, somewhere up above, Heath would want it.

What you said about two-face is what I have been saying for the last couple of weeks but it keeps getting shot down on this board... not sure what to think anymore....

as far as Joker, I don't think there should be a recast. I am sure that the Nolans, Goyer, and Co. are creative enough to write a compelling story without him

[Mandalore464]

I too believe that it would be unwise to try and convince us that Batman would get arrested and not be unmasked by the police, the doctors, or the judge.

I mean come on, he's Batman. Probably the one thing that Gothamites would like to know is who the hell hides behind that mask. It would also sound crazy to see psychiatrists not unmask him, as it would help them dig into his past, and thus find out what made him become Batman, and thus attempt to cure him. There's no curing Batman if you don't know he's Bruce Wayne.

Although I would like the idea of Batman imprisoned in Arkham, I wouldn't like it if it happened in a Nolan movie. What I mean is, leave it to an episode of BTAS, which from time to time had this episode where all Hell broke loose only to realize that it was an hallucination in the end (the one where Batgirl dies and Batman's identity is revealed, and the one in which Batman simply does not exist due to the Mad Hatter's manipulations) or in which you can have Batman locked up but still wearing his mask (Dreams in Darkness).

So, yes for the idea, no for it happening in the next movie. Unless Nolan wants to end his take on the Batman mythos on the end of his carreer as a vigilante, meaning he decides to kill him off or make him give up at the end of his trilogy. That would also be an option, and it would give the opportunity to whoever will direct the Batman movies after him to start from scratch again and not have to live up to the previous movies.

[Tel Aviv]

Afraid not. It's been confirmed by numerous sources, most notably AICNs Moriarty, that Dent does die. His body is seen, he's even given a funeral within the films timeframe.

I like the idea of The Riddler functioning as some sort of egotistical private detective working at the behest of Black Mask or the GPD to figure out Batman's identity. Some want a Zodiac like depiction but that would essentially rehash elements of The Joker's role in TDK (i.e. threats to off members of the public if demands aren't met, baiting the police, etc).

[Cinemaman]

I think there was a BTAS episode in which Batman is in Arkham.

Yes, there was one, and it's exactly what I would not mind to see in the next film.

[DACrowe]

Realistically Batman would need at least psychological evaluation and unless he has a lot of power to bribe people (a la Carmine Falcone) this would be contested in court and there'd be a trial to prove he is insane and he'd otherwise be kept in isolation in prison. This is how Dr. Crane was introduced in Batman Begins, as testifying that Mr. Zazz was crazy despite a skeptical DA office and when they cheated with FAlcone, he still had to evaluate him and was immediately being challenged that day by Rachel Dawes.

The idea he is going to be arrested, charged, evaluated and sent to Arkham and given a cell without them seeking his real name is just not plausible. It is unrealistic that they'd put him in a cell with the name "Batman, the" outside of it.

And imagine the press coverage, "On Gotham Tonight, Batman is behind bars bjut the police refuse to unmask the man they are charging. Once more, there are talks of admitting him to the looney bin without knowing who is behind the mask and if he is truly insane."

The idea is SILLY.

[Cinemaman]

I can read. Can you write a legible post without resulting in immature insults? No?

Your original post suggests that Batman be arrested, locked away in Arkham (which would mean psychiatric evaluation which would mean court date). To do this, to go through the psychological profiling and trial, you mean to tell me you honestly don't think in any realm, much less Nolan's "realistic" Gotham, they would not unmask the defendant? I see it now "The court calls Batman to the stand!" and he sits there in his mask and as they find him insane and lock him up no one, not even his doctors, would think of unmasking him and finding out why a grown man dresses up like a bat (which would be a main point of contention for psychiatric help).

Your idea is juvenile and idiotic. Sorry.

God, I had to do this to explain you a simple thing, and now you blame that you're not smart enough to read something that is no way harder than 1+1=2.

And from what I see, you are just one of these people, who can only criticize others, but can not suggest their own ideas.

I view it in a very very different way. For Gotham people Batman is now considered someone like Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs, and he can be also put into the suit similar to Lecter's one. And there is no need in these psychological tests, as this time it is too unusual case to Gotham's laws and policy.

And do me a favour, stop saying "Nolan's realism", as it's too irritating, even to Nolan himself, because you set limits to his opportunities as a creator of his own universe.

And as I said, Batman won't just sit on trial. It may be an outside public trial as well.

I think you just don't want to even think about this concept as a possible way of developing the story. Well, that's your problem then.

[Cinemaman]

Realistically Batman would need at least psychological evaluation and unless he has a lot of power to bribe people (a la Carmine Falcone) this would be contested in court and there'd be a trial to prove he is insane and he'd otherwise be kept in isolation in prison. This is how Dr. Crane was introduced in Batman Begins, as testifying that Mr. Zazz was crazy despite a skeptical DA office and when they cheated with FAlcone, he still had to evaluate him and was immediately being challenged that day by Rachel Dawes.

The idea he is going to be arrested, charged, evaluated and sent to Arkham and given a cell without them seeking his real name is just not plausible. It is unrealistic that they'd put him in a cell with the name "Batman, the" outside of it.

And imagine the press coverage, "On Gotham Tonight, Batman is behind bars bjut the police refuse to unmask the man they are charging. Once more, there are talks of admitting him to the looney bin without knowing who is behind the mask and if he is truly insane."

The idea is SILLY.

Dude, calm down, you sound like nuts. You don't like it, ok, but stop bashing the thread.

[Cinemaman]

They won't do it, or at least not with how things stand now. Regardless of the issue of exposing his secret identity/keeping his mask on ( I am not entering that fire-fight), Supermax is already going to show the comic hero in prison surrounded by villains. I highly doubt WB/DC Comics would release a Batman film that has a sort of similar storyline to it, especially since they are slated ( I think) to come out around the same time

Ummm, Supermax was a spec script written by Goyer, but it has never been announced as an official project. It's not even in pre-production, so what's the point. Goyer wrote many scripts, but not of them were made into films.

[Cinemaman]

Two-Face doesn't die in TDK. He returns in movie 3, he's presumed dead but Nolan and company says he returns in movie 3. Joker however, it's all up in the air if they'll recast or not. I'd like to see future films with the Joker with either Hugo Weaving or Daniel-Day Lewis as him. Lewis especially because I think all the adoration and praise he gave Heath, somewhere up above, Heath would want it.

Ok, but where is the evidence that Nolan and others said so?

[Cinemaman]

I like you, you and me agree on a lot. :oldrazz:

btw, I wasn't saying Batman and Riddler should help each other escape. Just Batman escapes and Riddler manages to because of Batman (who accidentally helped him).

Then this makes sense to me. I think Riddler could be a perfect version of Zodiac to Gotham City.

[Keymaker]

I think it would be kinda cool. A very different ending to a very diferent Bat-franchise. Or maybe he could have him dead at the end of #3.

[Cinemaman]

Afraid not. It's been confirmed by numerous sources, most notably AICNs Moriarty, that Dent does die. His body is seen, he's even given a funeral within the films timeframe.

I like the idea of The Riddler functioning as some sort of egotistical private detective working at the behest of Black Mask or the GPD to figure out Batman's identity. Some want a Zodiac like depiction but that would essentially rehash elements of The Joker's role in TDK (i.e. threats to off members of the public if demands aren't met, baiting the police, etc).

Well, every character in Batman's universe is an individual, therefore every villain has his own style of terrorizing the city. Riddler can still stay as a new serial killer, but instead of bank robberies, explosions and massive terror, he can be one of those, who do everything slowly. I mean killing each victim day by day becoming a real legend (wasn't Zodiac a legend during its age?). Joker does everything at one momemnt, whereas Riddler can be a real hard job for Batman, as there he needs to use not only his best dective skills, but also logic of a real psych.

[Hyden]

the idea of Batman being captured and put to trial without having his mask and suit taken from him is frankly embarrassingly stupid, no amount of string pulling by Gordan could allow for a masked man to go to trial let alone be incarcerated, it just doesn't happen.
If you want Batman is Arkham without the whole damn world knowing who he is you'd have to it pretty much the way it was done in the Arkham Asylum Graphic Novel; have the inmates take over and have Batman be their first demand... from there you can go on to the "freak trial", but it's way to out there at this point and there are not enough known rogues/inmates introduced yet to have a 'jury of your peers' things going... I don't see it happening

[Cinemaman]

the idea of Batman being captured and put to trial without having his mask and suit taken from him is frankly embarrassingly stupid, no amount of string pulling by Gordan could allow for a masked man to go to trial let alone be incarcerated, it just doesn't happen.
If you want Batman is Arkham without the whole damn world knowing who he is you'd have to it pretty much the way it was done in the Arkham Asylum Graphic Novel; have the inmates take over and have Batman be their first demand... from there you can go on to the "freak trial", but it's way to out there at this point and there are not enough known rogues/inmates introduced yet to have a 'jury of your peers' things going... I don't see it happening

I'll repeat this again, MY CONCEPT HAS NEVER MEANT TO INCLUDE THE IDEA OF BATMAN'S TRUE IDENTITY BEING REVEALED! NEVER!

And Arkham prisoners mustn't be supervillains.

[Mandalore464]

Your concept involved Batman being taken to Arkham. And that will not happen with Batman keeping his identity secret. That's all he was saying.

[Cinemaman]

Your concept involved Batman being taken to Arkham. And that will not happen with Batman keeping his identity secret. That's all he was saying.

It seemed to me like he was talking about Batman reviealing his identity as a part of my idea.

[DocHoliday]

Ummm, Supermax was a spec script written by Goyer, but it has never been announced as an official project. It's not even in pre-production, so what's the point. Goyer wrote many scripts, but not of them were made into films.

The most recent draft and the one WB has retitled "The Green Arrow" was written by Justin Marks.

[Cinemaman]

The most recent draft and the one WB has retitled "The Green Arrow" was written by Justin Marks.

You see, it's still in Development, and that means there may be tens of drafts and changes.

[DocHoliday]

You see, it's still in Development, and that means there may be tens of drafts and changes.

I'm very well aware of this...Thing si I think Goyer was always set as a producer or something...I never remember hearing about him writing.

[DACrowe]

God, I had to do this to explain you a simple thing, and now you blame that you're not smart enough to read something that is no way harder than 1+1=2.

And from what I see, you are just one of these people, who can only criticize others, but can not suggest their own ideas.

I view it in a very very different way. For Gotham people Batman is now considered someone like Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs, and he can be also put into the suit similar to Lecter's one. And there is no need in these psychological tests, as this time it is too unusual case to Gotham's laws and policy.

And do me a favour, stop saying "Nolan's realism", as it's too irritating, even to Nolan himself, because you set limits to his opportunities as a creator of his own universe.

And as I said, Batman won't just sit on trial. It may be an outside public trial as well.

I think you just don't want to even think about this concept as a possible way of developing the story. Well, that's your problem then.

I'm only responding this much because you insult me in every post (like this one). Quit with the attacks on intelligence when your posts are as legible as those of a 3rd grader.

Anyway, I do have ideas and suggest them from time to time. Just go to the "Title" thread and I lay out what I'd like to see in a third film, but I try to avoid getting specific in plot points or storylines as that is not what the movie would be like and it can become a waste of energy.

I actually like your concept of the Riddler plot you wrote in another thread. Making him a Zodiac-styled serial killer seeking attention who targets important people (eventually Bruce Wayne, perhaps?) is a very interesting idea. If you combine that with Catwoman whose alter-ego may also be one of Gotham's elite who is targeted...it could make for a good movie.

But I've read your posts. Your idea here is illogical. Nolan has established he wants these movies to feel like they could be in our world. Hence all the location principal photography in Chicago and the lack of sound stage shooting. Hence the tones of the movie trying to evoke Heat as opposed to Metropolis or Nosferatu. He established in Batman Begins to go to Arkham it has to go through the same standard procedures you do in our world. We're talking diagnosis, multiple evaluations and possibly even a trial. To do this would take at least days and in that time in police custody with the press scrambling to know who the arrested Batman is...they leave his mask on because Jim Gordon likes him and wants to respect his privacy? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE and just screaming it does will not make it better. Nolan will not use that just as it didn't make sense to Nolan for Scarecrow to get into a full costume other than his mask to scare people. He didn't change from a business suit to the straw stuffing used in the Wizard of Oz because it doesn't seem like a naturalistic effort. If this was say Tim Burton's world, you'd have a point, but Nolan doesn't go for gaping plot holes to push a contrived plot.

Now you can attack me again.

EDIT: Sorry if these posts have been too aggressive. I will refrain from posting negatively about the subject again.

[Hyden]

Your concept involved Batman being taken to Arkham. And that will not happen with Batman keeping his identity secret. That's all he was saying.
This fine feller got it.
I'm not saying the idea of Batman being arrested is silly, I'm saying that the idea of Batman being in custody for more than an hour, let alone the duration of a trial and conviction (which can take weeks to months to years. especially in what would undoubtedly be a drawn out public spectacle) without being unmasked is ridiculous.
Say Batman gets caught, any cop worth paying would frisk the crap put the guy, and seeing as his whole suit can be considered a weapon and even the cowl could have some concealed stuff, I'd say he'd be sanz mask before he even got in the car... and probably with a planted baggy of crack in his belt for good measure.
And than it's off for mugshots and prints... I mean, it's not like they don't process you just cause you're famous/infamous, I'm the first to say the system can be corrupt, stupid or just plain evil, but nobody is getting away with not IDing a notorious vigilante without getting internal affairs, even the justice department down their throats.

[Hyden]

But I've read your posts. Your idea here is illogical. Nolan has established he wants these movies to feel like they could be in our world. Hence all the location principal photography in Chicago and the lack of sound stage shooting. Hence the tones of the movie trying to evoke Heat as opposed to Metropolis or Nosferatu. He established in Batman Begins to go to Arkham it has to go through the same standard procedures you do in our world. We're talking diagnosis, multiple evaluations and possibly even a trial. To do this would take at least days and in that time in police custody with the press scrambling to know who the arrested Batman is...they leave his mask on because Jim Gordon likes him and wants to respect his privacy? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE and just screaming it does will not make it better. Nolan will not use that just as it didn't make sense to Nolan for Scarecrow to get into a full costume other than his mask to scare people. He didn't change from a business suit to the straw stuffing used in the Wizard of Oz because it doesn't seem like a naturalistic effort. If this was say Tim Burton's world, you'd have a point, but Nolan doesn't go for gaping plot holes to push a contrived plot.

Now you can attack me again.
Couldn't have said it better myself... in fact, I didn't.

[returntovoid]

This thread just reminded me of this Batman comic book cover.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/07206180254.327.GIF

[ross2287]

Now, I'm just typing this as I think, but here we go.

TDK ends with Batman as a fugitive. Meanwhile, Batman is still doing the whole superhero thing, just working even more in the shadows than before. I can't decide if he should still have secret meetings with Gordon.

So, the cops are looking for him and maybe the mob gets wind of this and they want in on the deal for immunity or getting out of jail time or something. A mob boss--could be made up for the purposes of TDK2 or could be one from the comics (Thorne, Penguin, etc)--could hire someone to find and kill Batman. This hired killer could either be Deadshot or Bane. Anyway, if the mob brings in Bane we could get an abridged storyline from Knightfall. Maybe not have Bane break Batman's back, maybe have him break his leg near the thigh or something. If it's Deadshot, have him shoot Batman in the leg. Whoever causes the damage and whatever the damage is has to get Batman out of the way for part of the movie.

While Batman is in a recovery state, things get even worse in Gotham. Batman is presumed dead and or captured by the police and public, but someone is running around pretending to be Batman. Gordon, wanting to investigate the new Batman, sets up a meeting with him (maybe with a new Batsignal). At the meeting, the fake Batman abducts Gordon. Turns out it was Two-Face (or it could be someone else if Two-Face is dead, which I don't believe) masquerading as Batman. So there is breaking news that Gordon has been kidnapped and Batman goes to save him, in a weak state.

I don't know, I just typed all that really fast, but I think it's one of the possibilities for TDK2.

[returntovoid]

If it's Deadshot, have him shoot Batman in the leg.

Batman gets shot in the leg by the police in Year One.

Here's a page panel from Year One, where Batman gets shot in the leg.


http://www.bigtimeattic.com/blog/uploaded_images/mazzucchelli04_big.jpg

[Venom 1988]

Batman gets shot in the leg by the police in Year One.

Here's a page panel from Year One, where Batman gets shot in the leg.
....


um....k

[Cinemaman]

I'm only responding this much because you insult me in every post (like this one). Quit with the attacks on intelligence when your posts are as legible as those of a 3rd grader.

Anyway, I do have ideas and suggest them from time to time. Just go to the "Title" thread and I lay out what I'd like to see in a third film, but I try to avoid getting specific in plot points or storylines as that is not what the movie would be like and it can become a waste of energy.

I actually like your concept of the Riddler plot you wrote in another thread. Making him a Zodiac-styled serial killer seeking attention who targets important people (eventually Bruce Wayne, perhaps?) is a very interesting idea. If you combine that with Catwoman whose alter-ego may also be one of Gotham's elite who is targeted...it could make for a good movie.

But I've read your posts. Your idea here is illogical. Nolan has established he wants these movies to feel like they could be in our world. Hence all the location principal photography in Chicago and the lack of sound stage shooting. Hence the tones of the movie trying to evoke Heat as opposed to Metropolis or Nosferatu. He established in Batman Begins to go to Arkham it has to go through the same standard procedures you do in our world. We're talking diagnosis, multiple evaluations and possibly even a trial. To do this would take at least days and in that time in police custody with the press scrambling to know who the arrested Batman is...they leave his mask on because Jim Gordon likes him and wants to respect his privacy? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE and just screaming it does will not make it better. Nolan will not use that just as it didn't make sense to Nolan for Scarecrow to get into a full costume other than his mask to scare people. He didn't change from a business suit to the straw stuffing used in the Wizard of Oz because it doesn't seem like a naturalistic effort. If this was say Tim Burton's world, you'd have a point, but Nolan doesn't go for gaping plot holes to push a contrived plot.

Now you can attack me again.

EDIT: Sorry if these posts have been too aggressive. I will refrain from posting negatively about the subject again.

Sorry, I didn't want that. BTW, my first language isn't English, so don't get confused, if I make some grammar mistakes.

You mean Title For The Third Movie?

Well, I actually suggessted serveral intersting ideas about possible approach of TDK back in 2006, but I think what we have now is totally perfect, so I don't refer to this as a waste of time and energy.

I am agreed, but what's the point of including Catwoman in the fstory? I mean I have no problems with her, but what would be her motivations and actions?

Ok, maybe my cocncept of bringing Batman to trial and then taking him to Arkham may not fit Nolan's vision, but I still think that for such person as Batman they would make an exception, as it doesn't fit the city's laws.

[ross2287]

Batman gets shot in the leg by the police in Year One.

I remember that.
Good call.

[myway]

At the end of TDK, Batman urgers Gordon to blame him for Dent's crimes. This whole aspect has always been problematic to me because, and my question for you is, how literally will this be taken by Gordon and the Gotham populace? To put it in different words, will the people turn on Batman and think he's simply a cop killer? Will they "think/know" that he killed crooked cops? Even more to the point, do you guys think the 3rd movie end with Batman still on the run and to what extent will this whole idea of Batman as a villain be something that he has to deal with in the third movie?

[Copyright 2008]

The people were never really for Batman in the first place, he was never held up as their "savior", to some yes, like the copy cats, but to the general populace no. Dent was their hero, their savior. As for how they handle it in a sequel in the regard of how Gordon informs/disinforms the cops and citizens, I really don't know. They will obviously think that Batman has become, in a way like the Joker, uncontrollable, with no respect for morals or laws. Living with no rules. It will be just one of the challenges the Nolans (if they come back) will face in writing the script.

[protoctista]

I think that in the same way that the opening 6 minutes of TDK established the Joker as the Villain of the film, the opening 6 minutes of BB3 should establish Batman as the villain - in the eyes of most of Gotham. This could be done in an action sequence, or in a montage, but I think it's important because it'll reverberate with the resonance from the last film.

If it's an action sequence, you could play with the idea of perspective - from the cop's (and initially our) viewpoint on the scene, Batman is a killer, and a criminal.

I don't think it would take much for Gotham to turn on Batman - after all, remember the scene at the press conference in TDK. Now people will know that he killed the DA (and beacon of hope) plus multiple other cops. The media would have a field day with this - personalising each of the cops killed with the public - whipping up outrage and desgust. Batman's immediate presence within this film has to be one of villainy.

[Copyright 2008]

One thing I do think is that maybe Gordon will reveal those cops who were killed for who they really worked for, Maroni. That will take less heat off Batman seeing as it wasn't like he killed innocent people. He killed criminals. Criminals who thought he had rules. Which makes all the criminals look at Batman different now and with more fear than ever.

[myway]

One thing I do think is that maybe Gordon will reveal those cops who were killed for who they really worked for, Maroni. That will take less heat off Batman seeing as it wasn't like he killed innocent people. He killed criminals. Criminals who thought he had rules. Which makes all the criminals look at Batman different now and with more fear than ever.

I've thought about that too and I really hope they show that and make it clear. Alternatively, as Batman has supporters, it would be cool to see some of them "put 2 and 2 together" and look into the background of the cops that Batman supposedly killed. I understand that Batman is a controversial figure but I don't want to see him misunderstood as someone who kills innocent cops; that's taking it too far imo.

[IAmTheKnight]

And that is precisely why a third film MUST be made, why BB and TDK aren't "enough" or "stand alone." In standard mythos, Batman has never been seen as an out-and-out killer, whether of cops or criminals. It might be up in the air, but there's never been an established public declaration of Batman's guilt in any murder. This has to be addressed and dealt with, or, despite what some like to think, the Nolan series will be incomplete.

[Ronny Shade]

Batman was almost the villain of the pic, too. Joker was by far the more likable character, he had much more purpose than batman...and in many cases was more sympathetic, as well. But they did this without making Batman look like a *****.:up:

Also, I loved that they presented both sides of the issue, for the first time making it seem real that a person like the Joker was actually someone who would exist and inspire followers and not just a looney with a gimmick.

I think if in the third film Batman is forced to take the role of the villain, even if his character is a hero, it could do wonders for the pyschological aspect of Batman and the definition of his mission as Gotham protector.

[markstrange]

No offense but the idea of Batman as an Arkham patient on film doesn't sound right to me.
That would mean that his identity would have to be revealed to the public, and he'd have to be declared insane.
Yeah Batman's abit crazy, but full on insane, don't think so.
And as far as his identity being know to the public that's a movie killer right there.
Happened in Spider-Man 2 and that scene totally wrecked it for me, and i didn't bother with it after that point.

I loved that part, whats wrong wif you

[Bat101]

This fine feller got it.
I'm not saying the idea of Batman being arrested is silly, I'm saying that the idea of Batman being in custody for more than an hour, let alone the duration of a trial and conviction (which can take weeks to months to years. especially in what would undoubtedly be a drawn out public spectacle) without being unmasked is ridiculous.

I don't see anything wrong with the concept of Batman in custody with his mask still on. In TDK, the police didn't remove all of the Joker's makeup. The police could remove all of Batman's costume, but leaving the mask in place.

There are many instances where Batman can be easily apprehended. In TDK, he was unconscious after crashing the batpod into the semi-truck. He was also unconscious after he fell from the building at the end. In the third film, Batman has to avoid falling into unconsciousness or else the authorities will catch him.

:brucebat:

[protoctista]

The first thing police would do when apprehending the Batman would be to take off his mask. They wouldn't even leave it on for 5 minutes.

[Bat101]

The first thing police would do when apprehending the Batman would be to take off his mask. They wouldn't even leave it on for 5 minutes.

Batman's mask is protected with a high voltage defensive mechanism. The police won't be able to get it off.

Besides, Gordon is commissioner of the police. He could tell the cops not to remove the mask.

:brucebat:

[Ekricket]

But as Gordon is a lieutenant, he could ask judge to keep Batman in his suit, as he would still have some hope for him. I am just thinking that the whole thing of Batman getting into Arkham is way better than just a usual superhero formula, where a hero fights a villain, and that's what Nolan is always trying o change in Batman franchise. He doesn't want it to be limited to genre ranks. Besides the whole idea of make a third film as a detective thriller seems vagues and more like a sub-theme to the whole film.


Sure, he'd let him keep his utility belt too, right? That could come in handy in prison.....

[Ronny Shade]

They'd take the mask off.