The Fate of Two Face

[The Joker]

I voted ambiguous 50/50.

It looks like he's dead, but they could easily bring him back if they wanted to.

[Mister J]

Obviously if Nolan comes out and says two face is dead
people wont believe hes alive.

but if hes asked if exckhart is casted for the third film and he says No comment well then the talks will start up again.
Then you give us, as a community, more credit than I do. :funny:

There are some that would go along with whatever 'confirmation' was given by the principals, but I believe there's a far larger subsection of this lot that would consider it all a ruse if it didn't coincide with what they wanted.

[Knight_Of_Steel]

He's probably dead.

Probably had something to do with the left side of his face being turned into nothing but muscle and bone, lack of skin graphs, and no morphine.

The fall did a number too.

[Mr. Joker]

Doubt that, Batman survived it, and I'm sure anyone with no health problems could, as there is no hard ground. And his face didn't appear damaged at all.

[Knight_Of_Steel]

Doubt that, Batman survived it, and I'm sure anyone with no health problems could, as there is no hard ground. And his face didn't appear damaged at all.


Losing that much of your skin can kill you if you don't have help for several years. This means it can weaken your body physically, especially without treatment.

And Chris Nolan has gone by science so far.

BTW, Chyris Nolan's Bruce Wayne is probably the most fit man on Earth, he hit a piece of wood, breaking his fall, and the suit was pretty durable.

[Mr. Joker]

Dude, as everyone as said, it'll be easy for him to return.

*coughcomicbookvillaincough*

[Spider-Fan]

I think Nolan should have randomly had Stewie come in, and shoot Dent like the Vaudville Guys, and announce Dent is dead. At least, then people would get the hint!

[DSET]

Listen, you can buy all the Batman comics you want (it is rather immaterial, and I am not going to look at your posting history cause really I don't care... If nothing else, you use the same tactics as the bandwagon batfans). That doesn't change anything about Dent's fate in this film. It is in black and white on the pages. This is intent and verification. We have a body, memorial service, and literary proof he is dead. What more do you want?
Please don’t go on how I’m a batman bandwagon fan you will sorely regret it I’ve been striving to be an artist my whole life and it was batman and spawn comics that made me do so. You have absolutely no reason to believe that I am a bandwagon fan other than my post count and my annoyances with you’re dismissal of the possibility of his return. I don’t know what tactics you are talking about, maybe my poor english skills are whats making you think this way its a fact my english skills suck and ive posted in many times in the last few weeks.

What do I want?
-I want to see the third film that’s what i want.
There have been tons of movies including this one where a character seems dead but isn’t! The window is open no matter what the script says. This isn’t darth maul he wasn’t cut in half. Nolan could think today that he’s dead and tomr change his mind and make up a story on how Two face was kept alive, and regardless of what you say you have to apply SOME comic logic to this situation it IS a comic book movie at its roots.

-There’s no casket
If he wanted us Fans to 1000% think he is never coming back he would have made it so, would have took Gordon or bats two seconds to check his pulse or do something besides turn his face, and run away from the body. The memorial just seems fishy to me why that and not a proper funeral, I thought this before I saw the movie and saw the picture of the memorial and heard the spoilers its in my post history. Why show the coin land on heads, why show two characters fall from a height and one survive, there is reason to think he could be back and the book which said he was dead much before you posted this script doesn’t change that, if he wants people to believe he’s dead when he’s not that is most definitely what you have to do.
Fact is he probably is dead and Nolan wants two face fans to believe that there is a possibility of his return so they are not mad when the movie finishes just as batman lies to the citizens of gotham, Nolan and Raimi probably played the same trick on us to give us hope that the character could possibly return. When in fact they have no intention of bringing back the character. Regardless of which that still means the possibility is open and two face fans can still hope that he comes back.

[Mr. Joker]

There was no hint.

[DSET]

Then you give us, as a community, more credit than I do. :funny:

There are some that would go along with whatever 'confirmation' was given by the principals, but I believe there's a far larger subsection of this lot that would consider it all a ruse if it didn't coincide with what they wanted.
well to be honest Im not a frequent poster here so I wouldnt know

but if hes says hes not coming back
and people still think he is then obviously somethings wrong.

[Knight_Of_Steel]

There was no hint.

Didn't they have a funeral?

Gordon: Harvey was not the hero we deserved, but rather the hero we needed.

[Spider-Fan]

Please don’t go on how I’m a batman bandwagon fan you will sorely regret it I’ve been striving to be an artist my whole life and it was batman and spawn comics that made me do so. You have absolutely no reason to believe that I am a bandwagon fan other than my post count and my annoyances with you’re dismissal of the possibility of his return. I don’t know what tactics you are talking about, maybe my poor english skills are whats making you think this way its a fact my english skills suck and ive posted in many times in the last few weeks.

What do I want?
-I want to see the third film that’s what i want.
There have been tons of movies including this one where a character seems dead but isn’t! The window is open no matter what the script says. This isn’t darth maul he wasn’t cut in half. Nolan could think today that he’s dead and tomr change his mind and make up a story on how Two face was kept alive, and regardless of what you say you have to apply SOME comic logic to this situation it IS a comic book movie at its roots.

-There’s no casket
If he wanted us Fans to 1000% think he is never coming back he would have made it so, would have took Gordon or bats two seconds to check his pulse or do something besides turn his face, and run away from the body. The memorial just seems fishy to me why that and not a proper funeral, I thought this before I saw the movie and saw the picture of the memorial and heard the spoilers its in my post history. Why show the coin land on heads, why show two characters fall from a height and one survive, there is reason to think he could be back and the book which said he was dead much before you posted this script doesn’t change that, if he wants people to believe he’s dead when he’s not that is most definitely what you have to do.
Fact is he probably is dead and Nolan wants two face fans to believe that there is a possibility of his return so they are not mad when the movie finishes just as batman lies to the citizens of gotham, Nolan and Raimi probably played the same trick on us to give us hope that the character could possibly return. When in fact they have no intention of bringing back the character. Regardless of which that still means the possibility is open and two face fans can still hope that he comes back.

We had a memorial service, lifeless body, and the script flat out says "DEAD."

You can have your dreams. A third Batman movie doesn't need Two-Face. One of Batman's greatest strengths is his villain selection. We have options.

Again, I am not going into people's fan-hood anymore. I am sick of being attacked for my Spidey inspired username. If posters would stop that, then I'd have no reason to question their fan-hood.

[DSET]

We had a memorial service, lifeless body, and the script flat out says "DEAD."

You can have your dreams. A third Batman movie doesn't need Two-Face. One of Batman's greatest strengths is his villain selection. We have options.

_ I agree

Again, I am not going into people's fan-hood anymore. I am sick of being attacked for my Spidey inspired username. If posters would stop that, then I'd have no reason to question their fan-hood.
LoL i admit
I shouldnt have played that card:hehe::hehe:

In the end some people belive in conspiracy's some people dont
but of all the comic book movie deaths I still think two face has the highest possibility of a return

[DSET]

We had a memorial service, lifeless body, and the script flat out says "DEAD."
.
but there was no casket at the memorial it was a Tv memorial
that scene (was so vague) in that it could have even came up before the ending when everybody figured two face died in the hospital explosion, not to say that it did, but it didnt feel like a proper confirmation IMO.

[chaseter]

People that do not think Two Face died didn't get the message of the movie.

[Spider-Fan]

LoL i admit
I shouldnt have played that card:hehe::hehe:

In the end some people belive in conspiracy's some people dont
but of all the comic book movie deaths I still think two face has the highest possibility of a return

Even if I saw that Nolan could bring him back if he wanted to, I just don't see why he would. We already had the tragic part of Two-Face's story. This is the strongest part of his journey, and one reason I am sure he was included in the movie (since the Joker is not sympathetic in the least). Once we don't have that, he is just a villain. I think we have other unused villains who offer more in the area of franchise expansion than Two-Face would in subsequent appearances.

And you're forgiven for playing that card :oldrazz:

[FoJacob]

I wish Harvey wasn't dead. I think he probably is. And I think the reason people are so hoping that he isn't is because we know we're not going to see the Joker again, sadly. (And count me as someone who would just explode with absolute rage if they even thought about recasting the role.) It would be nice to think we'd see one familiar villainous face in the next film. The villains in this one (can we really call Harvey a villain?) were just so perfect that it's hard to think how getting a couple of new ones in the next film wouldn't be anything but disappointing.

Not that it would turn out disappointing, given how great a filmmaker Nolan is. But it just kind of feels like we've seen the best of the best now, you know?

[Spider-Fan]

I've said this countless times, the next Batman movie I feel has NO shot at topping TDK. None at all. If people are expecting it to be, we have another SM3 on our hands.

And I am saddened Joker won't come back (they were supposed to be destined to do this forever :csad:), but we got a legendary interpretation, so I can be happy with just this one.

[FoJacob]

And I am saddened Joker won't come back (they were supposed to be destined to do this forever :csad:), but we got a legendary interpretation, so I can be happy with just this one.

I agree completely. I know it's probably blasphemous to say this, but in a way I kind of hope they stop the series right here. I've been on some other boards today around the web and they're full of posts discussing a third installment, and who the villains should be, and even who they should recast as the Joker. And it's making me kind of sick, actually.

I just want to enjoy this movie and discuss the Joker and Harvey in it, because they were just so perfectly portrayed. I honestly couldn't care about a third film - yeah, it might be fantastic, but this one is just so damn good. I'm not ready to move on yet!

[DSET]

People that do not think Two Face died didn't get the message of the movie.

I get the messages
-Batman takes the blame doesnt want Gotham to know what happen to their white knight tells a white lie to keep them believing in the idea and Hope of others like Harvey dent.
-batman sympathises with him as they both loved rachael and most importantly they both have been out for revenge of lost loved ones. It is love that drives harvey to seek revenge and hate along with madness that drives harvey to kill in his quest for revenge.
-Harvey was a victim of chance and circumstance and Joker gave him the push to madness which lead him to figuritively and literally fall. He is the jokers ace in the hole and represents the jokers victory in the movie.
-one of the stories theme suggests that Harvey lived long enough to see himself become the villain but its a sad story as he was pushed into that outcome it was not entirely his fault.
-It shows that it takes alot to be a hero in a world of **** and eventually it gets to you, and it got to harvey and thus shows how strong bats has to be to truley be Gothams Dark Knight.
-Batman in the end is Gotham's needs for their hero because he does not need appreciation and acceptance from Gotham to silently protect it he will do what he has to no matter what the circumstance and no matter who is against him.

NOW
I still think harvey can possibily kept alive
what about his death didnt I get!!!?

[protocida]

For me, Harvey is dead, but they really can get in back. The main excuse is that they made a symbolic funeral and he is actually rooting on Arkham Asylum.

[protocida]

By the way, what's Two-Face participation on ''Dark Victory''. It was hinted several times that would be the direction Nolan and his group would go for a third movie.

[DSET]

Even if I saw that Nolan could bring him back if he wanted to, I just don't see why he would. We already had the tragic part of Two-Face's story. This is the strongest part of his journey, and one reason I am sure he was included in the movie (since the Joker is not sympathetic in the least). Once we don't have that, he is just a villain. I think we have other unused villains who offer more in the area of franchise expansion than Two-Face would in subsequent appearances.

And you're forgiven for playing that card :oldrazz:

I just want him to bring him back because i want the possibility of a HUSH\TLH\DV type scenario where nobody knows who the killer is and the possibility of two face coming out of nowhere seems awesome.
I also want him to come back because other than Johnny depp Id rather not see a recast for joker that is on screen for more than two mins

other than that there is still
Riddler\catwoman jewel theif love intrest catwoman(not sidekick catwoman\ Penguin mobb boss version by Seymour Hoffman
\Calendar\scarface and Hush
Talia could also be an intresting killer behind all this

Other than that its gonna be hard to fit Mad hatter\Solomon grundy\bane\croc\Clayface\freeze\Ivy\Quinn
etc in Nolans batman universe
and I agree
theres no topping this movie
But Nolan can tell really good murder mystery stories so i Hope he applies that skill in the third installment, as I dont really want a big and epic feel to the third one more personal stories would be better I think.

[Spider-Fan]

I just want him to bring him back because i want the possibility of a HUSH\TLH\DV type scenario where nobody knows who the killer is and the possibility of two face coming out of nowhere seems awesome.
I also want him to come back because other than Johnny depp Id rather not see a recast for joker that is on screen for more than two mins

other than that there is still
Riddler\catwoman jewel theif love intrest catwoman(not sidekick catwoman\ Penguin mobb boss version by Seymour Hoffman
\Calendar\scarface and Hush
Talia could also be an intresting killer behind all this

Other than that its gonna be hard to fit Mad hatter\Solomon grundy\bane\croc\Clayface\freeze\Ivy\Quinn
etc in Nolans batman universe
and I agree
theres no topping this movie
But Nolan can tell really good murder mystery stories so i Hope he applies that skill in the third installment, as I dont really want a big and epic feel to the third one more personal stories would be better I think.

Make the Mad Hatter the leader of an Alice in Wonderland themed cult. Cult's warp people's minds, so it is a form of mind control. I know he wouldn't be the main threat in this method, but he could be a good secondary villain used this way.

I think we have a strong enough selection without Two-Face. I think the Riddler can give us quite an interesting movie (if taken seriously this time).

[Banquet]

I'd rather he wasn't dead... but he was too important to Gordon and Wayne to be a cameo like Scarecrow for a third movie, and I wouldn't want him to be the main villian of the next since they explored him so much in this one. If they do make a third movie, it will probably feature completely different villians, just like TDK was to BB.

[DSET]

Make the Mad Hatter the leader of an Alice in Wonderland themed cult. Cult's warp people's minds, so it is a form of mind control. I know he wouldn't be the main threat in this method, but he could be a good secondary villain used this way.

I think we have a strong enough selection without Two-Face. I think the Riddler can give us quite an interesting movie (if taken seriously this time).
I always liked mad hatter but i dont get enough of him
if anyone can pull him off its nolan I think hes a challenge
unlike freeze and clayface whose nearly and impossible challenge to fit these style of movies

I agree
we do have a strong selection without two face

[Mr. Joker]

I'd rather they feature him as one of the main villains, and possibly introduce someone else at the same time like Bane.

[JackBauer24]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/twofaceisdead.jpg

[Spider-Fan]

I always liked mad hatter but i dont get enough of him
if anyone can pull him off its nolan I think hes a challenge
unlike freeze and clayface whose nearly and impossible challenge to fit these style of movies

I agree
we do have a strong selection without two face

What I love about Nolan is that he and I seem to have the same taste in Batman villains. My five faves are Joker, Ra's, Two-Face, The Riddler, and Scarecrow.

Thus far, only one is missing from my list :cwink:

As I say this, I can think of a bunch of other ones for honorable mention...this just shows me the stuff left in Batman's tank. We have used the best oil, but we still have lots to drill for IMO.

[Mr. Joker]

Screw the Riddler.

[DSET]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/twofaceisdead.jpg
LOOOOL:hehe::hehe:

[Spider-Fan]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/twofaceisdead.jpg

LOL...oh, that is even funnier than those owned photoshops people have of Bats and Spidey :woot:

[protocida]

''Batman 3'' will have concepts borrowed from ''Dark Victory'' mixed with the choosen villain best stories.

That must be the route, just like ''The Dark Knight'' was a ''The Long Halloween'' with the best joker boners added.

[DSET]

Screw the Riddler.

riddler is the best Option after joker and two face IMO

[Spider-Fan]

riddler is the best Option after joker and two face IMO

I agree :up:

Plus, I think the Riddler is a very logical progression from the Joker. From an agent of chaos to a man whom's plans are VERY meticulous.

[M.O.Steel]

i don't think riddler would be a good choice...too similar to joker, even though they would probably make them very different. i think peguin and cat woman.

[Mangelo]

Jackbaur24's comic panel gives me hope that Two-Face is still alive. Back in the day, a villain would seemingly perish, then miraculously return. If Two-Face survived at the end of The Dark Knight, then the Joker really did win. Think about it. Not only did he get Harvey Dent, Gotham's "White Knight" and bright future, to give in to his anger and turn evil, but he unleashed someone with anarchic sensibilities similar to himself. Two-Face is a tragic character, but dying doesn't make him any more tragic. His tragedy would be much more significant if he lived on - - with his mind warped, and his ethics out the window. That's truly a fall from grace.

All Nolan has to do, is open the third chapter where it left off. With Gordon and his family still outside the warehouse where Rachel died, and the perimeter cops chasing after Batman. Gordon has just given this "Dark Knight" speech to his son, when they turn around to see that Harvey's body is gone. Nolan loves to toy with the chronology of his films, so this wouldn't be a cop out. Gordon decides to move forward with the plan, and they have a memorial for Harvey Dent. It would work, and we have a fantastic villain for the next movie. Doesn't anyone remember the article about how the Two-Face/Harvey Dent split personalities were going to be handled similar to Gollum/Smeagol? That's what I want to see.

[Banquet]

i don't think riddler would be a good choice...too similar to joker, even though they would probably make them very different. i think peguin and cat woman.

uhh... but that's been done. I'd like to see Catwoman though.

[Spider-Fan]

i don't think riddler would be a good choice...too similar to joker, even though they would probably make them very different. i think peguin and cat woman.

I saw that movie...it was called Batman Returns.

The Riddler can easily be done not similar to the Joker. You have to take the Riddler seriously and do away with the goofy stuff. I hope Nolan does that if he does a 3rd film. The Riddler should be a serious minded intellect, whom loves puzzles/games.

Also, the Riddler and Joker are in many ways opposite. Joker in TDK is about "taking a plan and turning it onto itself" and being "an agent of chaos." The Riddler could be a person who abides by a strict set of rules and is about order. I think it is a logical progression.

[Dr. Fate]

He sure looked dead at the end; I assumed he broke his neck in the fall.

[BubbaGump]

I just want him to bring him back because i want the possibility of a HUSH\TLH\DV type scenario where nobody knows who the killer is and the possibility of two face coming out of nowhere seems awesome.
I also want him to come back because other than Johnny depp Id rather not see a recast for joker that is on screen for more than two mins

other than that there is still
Riddler\catwoman jewel theif love intrest catwoman(not sidekick catwoman\ Penguin mobb boss version by Seymour Hoffman
\Calendar\scarface and Hush
Talia could also be an intresting killer behind all this

Other than that its gonna be hard to fit Mad hatter\Solomon grundy\bane\croc\Clayface\freeze\Ivy\Quinn
etc in Nolans batman universe
and I agree
theres no topping this movie
But Nolan can tell really good murder mystery stories so i Hope he applies that skill in the third installment, as I dont really want a big and epic feel to the third one more personal stories would be better I think.

Are Loeb's stories the only Batman comics you've read? :huh:

[StrainedEyes]

I agree :up:

Plus, I think the Riddler is a very logical progression from the Joker. From an agent of chaos to a man whom's plans are VERY meticulous.

I would love it if the freaks started taking over. Maybe have Batman get in the middle of rival gangs, lead by freaks, trying to take over Gotham.

I think Joker and his success as a terrorist should inspire a slew of "freaks" to follow.

[Spider-Fan]

I would love it if the freaks started taking over. Maybe have Batman get in the middle of rival gangs, lead by freaks, trying to take over Gotham.

I think Joker and his success as a terrorist should inspire a slew of "freaks" to follow.

The Joker should inspire some people, and I think the Joker inspiring the Riddler to take action and try to take the city himself would be a good way of bringing out the Riddler's motivation. However, he should see the Joker failed because he had no end game strategy or plan once chaos ensues (and plans should be his specialty :cwink:)

[StrainedEyes]

The Joker should inspire some people, and I think the Joker inspiring the Riddler to take action and try to take the city himself would be a good way of bringing out the Riddler's motivation. However, he should see the Joker failed because he had no end game strategy or plan once chaos ensues (and plans should be his specialty :cwink:)

I just like the idea of two rival freaks trying to fight for it. Riddler and someone else trying to one-up eachother, Gotham, and Batman. Nolan is one of the best at juggling a lot of information.

[Spider-Fan]

I just like the idea of two rival freaks trying to fight for it. Riddler and someone else trying to one-up eachother, Gotham, and Batman. Nolan is one of the best at juggling a lot of information.

This is true. A lot was going on in TDK, but it was handled very well.

I definately would like to see Riddler and Catwoman in it (maybe she is even hired muscle by the Riddler). Not sure who would be a rival villain for the Riddler, though.

[Parquagh]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/JackBauer24/twofaceisdead.jpg
ROFLMAO!:woot:

[Banquet]

This is true. A lot was going on in TDK, but it was handled very well.

I definately would like to see Riddler and Catwoman in it (maybe she is even hired muscle by the Riddler). Not sure who would be a rival villain for the Riddler, though.

That's what I'm talking about. Catwoman would be great as a logical continuation of Bruce's personal struggle in being Batman, and Riddler would be great as the continuation of Gotham's struggle against chaos that the Joker started.

[Spider-Fan]

That's what I'm talking about. Catwoman would be great as a logical continuation of Bruce's personal struggle in being Batman, and Riddler would be great as the continuation of Gotham's struggle against chaos that the Joker started.

Agreed. I think this is the best combination for the next film :up:

[Mr. Joker]

Perfect combination = Two Face + Riddler or Two-Face + Bane or...you get where I'm going with this.

[Spider-Fan]

Perfect combination = Two Face + Riddler or Two-Face + Bane or...you get where I'm going with this.

You want a zombie in the next movie?

:woot:

[Mr. Joker]

Nah, Two Face himself will suffice. :hoboj:

[MovieGeekFreak]

Tell me you didn't just say you trust Jett.

yeah i do, i mean hes created a batman fansite, have you done that, i bet no!
so yeah i'll trust him, but also i bought the movie script so i know hes dead

[MovieGeekFreak]

lol...Jett somehow still thinks that he can rally for a third batman film and somehow WB is gonna make one thanks to his petitions or whatever...

heck he sometimes thinks that BB was made because of his site...

anyways, enough of Jett hate for now:o

well hes a bigger fan then all of us, so i kinda trust him but you never know what can happen, but its doubtful

[DSET]

Are Loeb's stories the only Batman comics you've read? :huh:


Jeez…NO!
I just like the idea

Why do u insult me for no reason?
Because I believe two face could possibly return?

This is what I have in batman single issues- well least more than half are batman
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3016/img1665fw9.jpg

This is what I have in TPB
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6233/img1676eb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6233/img1676eb9.f01547370a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=378&i=img1676eb9.jpg)

this is what I have On my PC in CBR files under batman out of which Ive probably read less than half
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7944/81088625lp3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7944/81088625lp3.22d7aa5569.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=236&i=81088625lp3.jpg)

Satisfied??
Did I ever say in this thread I was the most intelligent or biggest batman fan NO!
I just didn’t like being called a bandwagon

Now let me ask you a question
WHY did u rate TDK 1/10?

[Mr. Joker]

I don't really have any Batman comics or a lot of comics period but I plan on trying to get some whenever I can find a shop.

[Spider-Fan]

Let me see, I have all the issues of Hush and Knightfall plus loose Bats comics here and there (not sure issue numbers). Also have Batman Year One and Two, The Dark Knight Returns/Strikes Again, Kingdom Come (not the main, but he is prominant).

I have read a bunch of other Bats graphic novels, but I borrowed those from other people (to save money).

[DSET]

Let me see, I have all the issues of Hush and Knightfall plus loose Bats comics here and there (not sure issue numbers). Also have Batman Year One and Two, The Dark Knight Returns/Strikes Again, Kingdom Come (not the main, but he is prominant).

I have read a bunch of other Bats graphic novels, but I borrowed those from other people (to save money).
unfortunately I turned to another resort to save money but i buy anytime I like something especially artwork wise

[Spider-Fan]

unfortunately I turned to another resort to save money but i buy anytime I like something especially artwork wise

I only buy graphic novels anymore (cause I absolutely hate new comics, though I may start getting into some DC titles like Green Lantern again once I read Sinestro Corps...Marvel I am boycotting), and the ones I buy are stories I badly want to read. Otherwise, I'll try to find a friend who has it. I just can't support a graphic novel addiction with my DVD addiction. Last GN I bought was Watchmen about a year ago (masterpiece :up:).

[Rogzilla]

You know the best part? People still won't accept it.

I didn't want him to be dead, but it says it in the script, so it's true. I accept his death. And I'll admit, it works. I just wanted to see more Two Face.

I will admit it. Two-Face died.

I still say Chris Nolan had shot it ambiguously to keep creative freedom incase he decided he wanted more Two-Face, but unless he shows up in part 3 or it is otherwise established, he is dead.

[Mr. Joker]

I think the third movie should be the last movie of this franchise so Two-Face returning really would be icing on the cake.

[magus]

I will admit it. Two-Face died.

I still say Chris Nolan had shot it ambiguously to keep creative freedom incase he decided he wanted more Two-Face, but unless he shows up in part 3 or it is otherwise established, he is dead.

That is pretty much how I feel about it. For all intents and purposes in this film, Dent is dead, but should Nolan want to use him for the third film I don't think it would be too difficult to explain.

[Mr. Joker]

And I'm sure he will do just that since Two-Face is the second best Batman villain. :D

[Mister Reese]

taken from an ign article:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html




The Villains of Batman 3

Why not just recast the Joker and bring back Two-Face, you ask? With Heath Ledger dead and his portrayal of the Joker now indelibly etched into filmgoers' minds, we think it highly unlikely that the filmmakers would recast the role to bring the Clown Prince back. It would also be tough for that character to top what he did to Batman and Gotham in TDK so perhaps once is enough. Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

ign's opinion:

If Dent is still alive, did Gordon have him covertly locked away in Arkham? Given TDK's overt political overtones, the idea of a secret prisoner hidden from the world would be in line with the ethical questions raised in the second film. Having Dent escape and show the city what he'd really become would at least get Batman off the hook for the murders that he didn't commit, but we don't see the filmmakers bringing Dent back either. Story-wise, what more could be done with Joker or Two-Face that TDK didn't accomplish? We suggest the filmmakers bring in new villains for the third movie, but that doesn't mean they can't be tied to the events of the first two films.

[CWP]

Voted "Ambiguous (writers could swing either way): but he's probably dead".
I do think he must've died, although Batman survived the same fall and he even hit obstacles on the way down. I think there could be a "Huh?" moment in another movie when we see Two-Face appear again for a small scene like the Scarecrow (he should have become Two-Face ... if my memory serves me correctly, doesn't his face catch afire?) in The Dark Knight. I know that the Joker is obviously alive, but I don't know if they should risk a recast for another movie. They can just bring him up so it's not totally discomforting.

[kevin2323]

taken from an ign article:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html




The Villains of Batman 3

Why not just recast the Joker and bring back Two-Face, you ask? With Heath Ledger dead and his portrayal of the Joker now indelibly etched into filmgoers' minds, we think it highly unlikely that the filmmakers would recast the role to bring the Clown Prince back. It would also be tough for that character to top what he did to Batman and Gotham in TDK so perhaps once is enough. Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

ign's opinion:

If Dent is still alive, did Gordon have him covertly locked away in Arkham? Given TDK's overt political overtones, the idea of a secret prisoner hidden from the world would be in line with the ethical questions raised in the second film. Having Dent escape and show the city what he'd really become would at least get Batman off the hook for the murders that he didn't commit, but we don't see the filmmakers bringing Dent back either. Story-wise, what more could be done with Joker or Two-Face that TDK didn't accomplish? We suggest the filmmakers bring in new villains for the third movie, but that doesn't mean they can't be tied to the events of the first two films.


thank you for that,now all the QQers can stfu :)

[chaseter]

Once again...if Dent was locked away in Arkham...someone would find out. Do you think he is locked up in the basement with no human contact what-so-ever?

[Mangelo]

Like I said, all Nolan has to do is open the third chapter where it left off. With Gordon and his family still outside the warehouse where Rachel died, and the perimeter cops chasing after Batman. Gordon has just given his "Dark Knight" speech to his son, when they turn around to see that Harvey's body is gone. Nolan loves to toy with the chronology of his films, so this wouldn't be a cop out. Gordon decides to move forward with the plan, and they have a memorial for Harvey Dent. Two-Face is still at large. It would work, and Nolan gets to explore this fantastic villain further in the next movie.

[wikum]

Two Face is dead.

Something tells me that WB wishes Nolan didn't kill him off now.

Nolan probably doesn't care either way.

Still lots to play with for the third: Riddler/Catwoman/Penguin/Mad Hatter/Scarecrow/Bane/Black Mask/Freeze/Ivy...use them all lol.

[Rincewind]

Ya, well... It's more like just Riddler and Catwoman. Bane storyline would be too similar to the Joker one in TDK (a freak is hired to take down Batman), Nolan has said that he can't see a way to use Penguin, Mad Hatter and Black Mask are too small and can't hold a movie on their own, after the cameo in TDK Scarecrow is a joke now, and Ivy and Freeze are too fantastical.

[wikum]

Ya, well... It's more like just Riddler and Catwoman. Bane storyline would be too similar to the Joker one in TDK (a freak is hired to take down Batman), Nolan has said that he can't see a way to use Penguin, Mad Hatter and Black Mask are too small and can't hold a movie on their own, after the cameo in TDK Scarecrow is a joke now, and Ivy and Freeze are too fantastical.

i disagree i think they could all be used. freeze/ivy can be altered.

nolan was quoted on "not being able to use penguin" just like oldman was quoted on "riddler will be in the next film".....so until i see video evidence of him saying "we can't use penguin" then i won't believe what he has been quoted as saying.

mad hatter/black mask too small to hold a movie on their own...i agree. who said they were holding the movie on their own?:woot:

bane could be done he's nothing like the joker....the joker didn't NEED to be hired he would have gone after batman anyways.

[darthlaney]

Dent is Dead - Two Face is alive and hidden away in Arkham

[Rincewind]

freeze/ivy can be altered.

Yes. To the point that they would hardly be recognizable. The Nolanverse is just not suitable for the fantastical villains.

nolan was quoted on "not being able to use penguin" just like oldman was quoted on "riddler will be in the next film".....so until i see video evidence of him saying "we can't use penguin" then i won't believe what he has been quoted as saying.

Allright.
But even with this in mind, Penguin is kinda boring - both Riddler and Catwoman are more interesting villains. Essentially, he is just a short and fat mob boss with a beak of a nose. He was interesting only in BR where he was given Killer Croc-kinda story.

mad hatter/black mask too small to hold a movie on their own...i agree. who said they were holding the movie on their own?:woot:

But what would be the point of small and useless cameos?
Besides, in TDK we already got two facially disfigured villains. Do we really, REALLY need a third?

bane could be done he's nothing like the joker....the joker didn't NEED to be hired he would have gone after batman anyways.

Perhaps. But he WAS hired. And he said that he didn't want to do anything he's good at for free. It's not THAT different from the mercenary style of Bane, is it?

[CrimsonDeath]

Perhaps. But he WAS hired. And he said that he didn't want to do anything he's good at for free. It's not THAT different from the mercenary style of Bane, is it?

Plus, the Joker was just out to mess with the mob too and he did not care in the slightest for the money. He burned it!

And Bane, he was not really a mercenary in conception. He came to Gotham specifically to destroy Batman because of what he represented to him. Bane would be Batman's amoral equal if you will. I love Bane but he cannot deliver the chaos the Joker did in this movie.

[ryan dube]

If he is ever caught saying that he cannot use a character, that just shows how limited he is creatively.

The Penguin could easily be used as an untoucheable arms dealer that hangs around in crowds where you would also find Bruce Wayne, and Bruce would be so damned upset that his hands are cleaner than those of Maroni's...

[Viper81]

The question shouldn't be whether or not he's DEAD.

The question should be, why the hell would you want him alive? What purpose would he serve to a sequel at this point? To clear Batman's name? Ok, but at what cost?

If he is alive, and he returns in the next movie, then they are going to destroy the entire premise of THIS movie that they spent 2.5 hours to build.

Whether he's dead or alive is immaterial. For the sake of continuity, let's all hope he IS dead.

[jackjack924]

The script says that he broke his neck when he fell and that he's dead. They could have very well changed it wile filming but that's what the script says.

[Eagle_23]

I just read this over on IGN.com and found it pleasantly suggestive that we haven't seen the last of Two Face,

"Why not just recast the Joker and bring back Two-Face, you ask? With Heath Ledger dead and his portrayal of the Joker now indelibly etched into filmgoers' minds, we think it highly unlikely that the filmmakers would recast the role to bring the Clown Prince back. It would also be tough for that character to top what he did to Batman and Gotham in TDK so perhaps once is enough. Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive."

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html

Not to mention as everyone has said/read Aaron Eckhart has been signed to do 2 movies. So here's hoping....

[hegele]

I just read this over on IGN.com and found it pleasantly suggestive that we haven't seen the last of Two Face,

"Why not just recast the Joker and bring back Two-Face, you ask? With Heath Ledger dead and his portrayal of the Joker now indelibly etched into filmgoers' minds, we think it highly unlikely that the filmmakers would recast the role to bring the Clown Prince back. It would also be tough for that character to top what he did to Batman and Gotham in TDK so perhaps once is enough. Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive."

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html

ha. debate over. The filmmakers said it was left ambiguous. good find.

[MovieGeekFreak]

lets end the argument here now and just say its 50/50!!!!!!!!1

[jsf]

Why is it that we, as a fan community, do this with practically every death? :dry:

Doc Ock, Venom, Ra's, now Two Face. I'm near certain that if I had have been around shortly after Spider-Man, people would have been claiming the Green Goblin was still alive.

When Gordon was speaking at a function, surrounded by police officers and (what looked to be) city officials, with two big ass pictures of Harvey in the shot and said "He was the hero Gotham needed, but didn't deserve", is it me or was that supposed to be a funeral?

I get the 'hidden agenda' stretch people are claiming could lead to Two Face just being locked up in Arkham, but how does that work? There was a battalion of GCPD around the perimeter of that locale. Wouldn't someone say "where's the body"? The cops had that place surrounded and were fastly closing in (even though they didn't know Dent was there). How much time would Gordon have to hide the body, quarter off that section to keep people from looking there, ran back upstairs and tell Barbara and the kids not to mention anything about Harvey being there and whatever else it would take to pull this ruse off? Did Two Face just eventually get up and run off on his own? How does this 'he's still alive' argument work? :huh:

about the whole "wheres the body" thing, they could say he was killed in the hospital explosion and use that as an excuse, plus with the joker being put away they could transfer two face to the medical section of arkham without any interuption... so it's feasible

[DACrowe]

Y'know they said the same thing about Doc Ock's "ambiguous" death in SM2. Did he come back?

What I find funny I saw it with seven friends Friday night (three of them big comic fans) and no one questioned Dent was dead but was blown away by the movie and happy with how it was handled. The only "ambiguity" is coming online where so many fans just cannot accept the ending and this board, IMDB, etc. are drowning with comments like "Harvey Dent is dead, but Two-Face is not!"

I guess it will just take 2 years when it is confirmed Two-Face isn't coming back for the third for people to accept and understand the ending to this movie. :(

[Dark Globe]

None of the death's mentioned have ANYTHING to do with Two Face death. Not every director follows the same path.


edit: Also, why are you people so closed minded to not believe that they could bring him back? Even if he did die, they could pull the "he was knocked out" scheme.

[MovieGeekFreak]

None of the death's mentioned have ANYTHING to do with Two Face death. Not every director follows the same path.


edit: Also, why are you people so closed minded to not believe that they could bring him back? Even if he did die, they could pull the "he was knocked out" scheme.

ooo yeah the "he was knocked out scheme" that would totally work............you seriously think Nolan would use that...........

but in the script it says "Dent lies at the bottom of the bottom of the hole, his neck broken. Dead.

thats verbatim, right from the script

[Hole Shot]

You know how you know Two Face is dead?

Eckhart is campaigning to play Hal Jordan.

[MovieGeekFreak]

You know how you know Two Face is dead?

Eckhardt is campaigning to play Hal Jordan.

haha yeah right

[Blader5489]

He's dead. Jonathan Nolan confirmed it.

[Jokers_Wild]

I voted his fate is ambiguous...but that he's probably dead.

It's hard to say for sure. I think Nolan is smart enough as a film maker to know whether or not Two-Face will help or hinder a third film.

Personally, I think that they should start with a fresh storyline for the third, with only subtle hints regarding the Joker and Two-Face.

[Triple Skeet]

Ok, its doesnt matter what the script says, about .0002% of the movie going audience actually reads a movies script.

The bottom line is, they never showed a funeral, they never showed a coffin, they never showed a grave.

They left it that way intentionally. If they make a 3rd movie and the script has a story for Two-Face that is solid enough, he will be back. If they dont, then he wont. But you have to be retarded to not admit they left themselves an open window just in case they decide to bring him back.

The script saying his dead means NOTHING.

[sdc10]

No funeral? Did you miss the scene with Gordon talking with the giant photo of Dent behind him? I dont think theyd do such a thing just to say "oh hes just taking a rest in a hospital right now". Not to mention there is just no reason to bring him back. He went from Gothams white knight to falling to a criminal. Why bring him back? so he could just kill some more gangsters? That would just take away the symbolism from TDK.

[Black Zodak]

If they bring him back, I think the best way is to have Dent at the start of the film in a coma. You can have scene with Gordon or Bruce visiting him at the hospital, visiting him out of respect for who he was, yet secretly hoping that he never wakes up from his coma.

A coma may sound cliche, but Harvey's face was so damaged that it would seriously effect him physically as well as pschologicaly. A person couldn't survive with a face like that, because infection would set in. In the conditio he was in, and then falling from a great height, I could see him going into a coma.

I imagine the doctors would give him skin grafts while he was knocked out, and fix his face the best they could (although he would never look the same... I imagine in Part 3 his face would look a bit like Mel Gibson in "The Man Without a Face.") This may be enough for him to go back to "the good side", but it wouldn't last and he would snap again.

[Blader5489]

Ok, its doesnt matter what the script says, about .0002% of the movie going audience actually reads a movies script.

The bottom line is, they never showed a funeral, they never showed a coffin, they never showed a grave.

They never showed these for Rachel either.

Rachel is still alive! :wow:

[Dark Globe]

They never showed these for Rachel either.

Rachel is still alive! :wow:
Don't be dumb. Rachel was ****ing blown up, plus we saw her die ON SCREEN. Harvey took a fall my grandmother could survive.

[Mel4Prez]

Mark my word about this fact: Harvey Dent is Alive

My feeling, is that the next film will end with batman being a hero and possible haning up the suit. After a couple of years Warner will make a 4th installment with batman comming out of retirement to confront a new evil force..ala The Dark Knight returns.

[Silver Souper]

He's dead. Jonathan Nolan confirmed it.

no he didn't! on that podcast jonah said harvey "paid the price" or some rhetorical flourish but he got nervous and avoided saying "harvey is dead."

[Blader5489]

Don't be dumb. Rachel was ****ing blown up, plus we saw her die ON SCREEN. Harvey took a fall my grandmother could survive.

1) I was being sarcastic, chill out.

2) Technically, we never saw Rachel die, not that I believe she's alive anyway. I'm just illustrating how poor Triple Skeet's "evidence" of Dent being alive was.

3) Dent fell something like two stories on his back. He's dead. But more than that, there's a huge thematic importance to Dent dying, which is completely ruined if he's still alive by the end of the film.

[Dark Globe]

1) I was being sarcastic, chill out.

2) Technically, we never saw Rachel die, not that I believe she's alive anyway. I'm just illustrating how poor Triple Skeet's "evidence" of Dent being alive was.

3) Dent fell something like two stories on his back. He's dead. But more than that, there's a huge thematic importance to Dent dying, which is completely ruined if he's still alive by the end of the film.
1. Two Face is a big importance in Dent's life. It was stupid for Nolan to kill him off after 15 minutes.
2. Yes, we did see Rachel die.
3. Many people can fall 2 stories and survive, also, it wasn't clear how he landed. All we know is that he was on his back when Batman and Gordon looked at him. For all we know he could have rolled over, or fell over if he landed on his feet.
4. If Two Face can survive a car crash, he can survive a fall.

[hegele]

Aaron Eckhart (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/) would reprise his role from The Dark Knight (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/) - because working with Christian Bale (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/) is "phenomenal".
Eckhart, who plays District Attorney Harvey Dent in the sequel, confesses he "absolutely" would star in a third Batman film.
He tells WENN, "To work with Christian (Bale) all over again, and the cast, would be phenomenal. I think this movie is a movie of a lifetime."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/news#ni0265713

gee. Wonder why he would say that, and Emma, the wife of Christopher Nolan, also the producer, would say that it was ambiguous???

Oh right. To throw the public off. He is clearly dead and anyone who didn't get that doesn't understand the power of the ending....

were all just fanboys grasping at straws here. right.

this isn't really an arguement anymore. Its left ambiguous.

[intothevoid]

Eckhart Agrees To Third Batman Film

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/


I think despite what the script says, that they have really left it ambiguous.

Also, and perhaps most importantly - don't you think leaving Two-Face fate at 50/50 is perfectly appropriate for the character? I think it's pure genius.

[Savage]

Eckhart Agrees To Third Batman Film

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/


I think despite what the script says, that they have really left it ambiguous.

Also, and perhaps most importantly - don't you think leaving Two-Face fate at 50/50 is perfectly appropriate for the character? I think it's pure genius.

Ha. I never thought about it that way. :yay:

[Psycho_Sith]

If they bring him back, I think the best way is to have Dent at the start of the film in a coma. You can have scene with Gordon or Bruce visiting him at the hospital, visiting him out of respect for who he was, yet secretly hoping that he never wakes up from his coma.

A coma may sound cliche, but Harvey's face was so damaged that it would seriously effect him physically as well as pschologicaly. A person couldn't survive with a face like that, because infection would set in. In the conditio he was in, and then falling from a great height, I could see him going into a coma.

I imagine the doctors would give him skin grafts while he was knocked out, and fix his face the best they could (although he would never look the same... I imagine in Part 3 his face would look a bit like Mel Gibson in "The Man Without a Face.") This may be enough for him to go back to "the good side", but it wouldn't last and he would snap again.

I can get onboard with that, sure. Dent had a great story arch in DKR that could go along with that.
It would make for good Nolan-esque drama...and he loves to use material from the comics.

Two-Face is alive in some capacity in the Nolanverse
*edit* regardless if he comes back or not, anyone here would have to admit it'll keep people talking until the sequel comes out. Look at what happened with the "No...*I* am your father" line (if you're old like me)! That *one line* kept the buzz for Jedi going full speed until '83. Nolan's brilliant!

[DACrowe]

He's dead. Jonathan Nolan confirmed it.

Link, please?

[Lasirius]

Eckhart Agrees To Third Batman Film

Aaron Eckhart (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/) would reprise his role from The Dark Knight (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/) - because working with Christian Bale (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/) is "phenomenal".
Eckhart, who plays District Attorney Harvey Dent in the sequel, confesses he "absolutely" would star in a third Batman film.
He tells WENN, "To work with Christian (Bale) all over again, and the cast, would be phenomenal. I think this movie is a movie of a lifetime."

http://www.imdb.com/news/ns0000002/#ni0265711

[DACrowe]

Eckhart Agrees To Third Batman Film

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/


I think despite what the script says, that they have really left it ambiguous.

Also, and perhaps most importantly - don't you think leaving Two-Face fate at 50/50 is perfectly appropriate for the character? I think it's pure genius.

Okay. You know right before Spider-Man 3 came out James Franco said he WOULD LOVE to do a fourth one and work with Sam, Tobey and Kirsten again. Then on the DVD he revealed he wasn't coming back for a fourth, because his character is dead. I believe Alfred Molina also said he would love to do another Spidey, but that isn't happening.

He's asked a question and so as to not spoil the movie "Oh sure, I'd love to do another one, it was fun." But when you see the movie you realize he's dead (well except for the 1% of the audience that are diehard fans who refuse to accept it). I thought this couldn't get anymore iron clad than seeing Two-Face dead (after the debacle of people refusing to look at pictures of Venom's skeleton).

Y'know maybe Franco is coming back for SM4. After all we didn't actually see who was in the coffin. It could have been Sandman for all we know. :rolleyes:

[kevin2323]

Okay. You know right before Spider-Man 3 came out James Franco said he WOULD LOVE to do a fourth one and work with Sam, Tobey and Kirsten again. Then on the DVD he revealed he wasn't coming back for a fourth, because his character is dead. I believe Alfred Molina also said he would love to do another Spidey, but that isn't happening.

He's asked a question and so as to not spoil the movie "Oh sure, I'd love to do another one, it was fun." But when you see the movie you realize he's dead (well except for the 1% of the audience that are diehard fans who refuse to accept it). I thought this couldn't get anymore iron clad than seeing Two-Face dead (after the debacle of people refusing to look at pictures of Venom's skeleton).

Y'know maybe Franco is coming back for SM4. After all we didn't actually see who was in the coffin. It could have been Sandman for all we know. :rolleyes:

You my friend are a nublet.

[makkerskilap]

well.. ive just come back from the premiere here in denmark, and first of all this movie is great, just as i exspected.

harvey.. hmm.. well he LOOKS dead (lol)

but then again.. he flipped the coin and it landed on can't remember if it's head or tales but the side which you survive, don't know if that has been said or if it has anything to say??...

and batman survived, so why shouldn't he although he looks dead?
would be great for him to be in a third 2...


OT

heath ledger? perfect last performance.

[Psycho_Sith]

he flipped the coin and it landed on can't remember if it's head or tales but the side which you survive, don't know if that has been said or if it has anything to say??...


That coin flip was for Gordon's son :cwink:

[obiwan]

i think hes dead. this is like saying that venom in spiderman 3 is still alive when it was clear he exploded. fans like to say this stuff, but im pretty sure hes dead. batman pushed him off the ledge to save gordons son (batman killed!) and when he turned his head over, he was DEAD, not unconcious. batman has lots of armor, thats why he was still alive.

[DACrowe]

James Franco ponders Spider-Man 4 in September, 2006 (shooting wrapped in July):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=364137

Liam Neeson saying you could see him in Episode II from December, 2001 below:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41662,00.html

Well both of these are proof that Two-Face is alive and scheming for the next Batman movie. After all Eckhart said he WOULD like to be in the sequel. :whatever:

[DACrowe]

You my friend are a nublet.

A nublet? :huh:

[chaseter]

It was like a 4 story fall and he already had a massive amount of damage to his face and not to mention he denied all forms of help at the hospital...

[Sam_Cooksey]

Let's look at it from a filmmaking perspective.

1) Nolan is a meticulous filmmaker. He leaves no stone unturned and if he shows/says something or does not show/say something it is ON PURPOSE. The ambiguity was intentional.

2) Nolan is a very rep[etative filmmaker. Look at his body of work (Memento - hello!) and even in his Batman movies where similar themes recur constantly throughout. Okay...so we see Joker "dead" on the pool table - oops just kidding he's alive! We see Gordon "dead" at the podium - oops just kidding he's alive! We see Dent "dead" at the bottom of a two story fall - hmmm....

3) Finally, when Batman is interrogating Maroni he says something to the effect of "everyone knows you won't die from a fall of this height" and is them dropped from a higher point than Dent. And before you get all "he landed on his feet" on me, we never saw Dent land (which reverts us back to #1)

[EagleVision]

He's ALIVE. I'm sure of it. If Bats didn't die on that fall, neither did he. He just got knocked unconscious. Granted, Bats has a incredible suit but he didn't die. The ending was all about covering up Harvey Dent's downfall and the fact that he killed innocent lives and was corrupted by the acts of the Joker. Those who did realize who he was such as the bartender or Maroni doesn't matter because Harvey killed them all. For Gotham not to fall into a sense of hopelessness, it was best decided between Gordon and Batman to make the Gotham population believe he was dead and thereby dies a hero. But now his new life will live on as the villainous Two-Face.

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." H. Dent

And in his quote Harvey did both.

I guarantee it, he didn't die.

I'll be going to see it for a 3rd time at IMAX soon :)

[kevin2323]

It was like a 4 story fall and he already had a massive amount of damage to his face and not to mention he denied all forms of help at the hospital...


Lets cut the realism crap please, It is still no matter what a comic book movie. Maroni fell from a similar height and broke his legs and guess what he is walking around in a cane afterwards sooooo realistic huh?

It is left ambiguous IMO

end of story....TA DA

[chaseter]

Lets cut the realism crap please, It is still no matter what a comic book movie. Maroni fell from a similar height and broke his legs and guess what he is walking around in a cane afterwards sooooo realistic huh?

It is left ambiguous IMO

end of story....TA DA
Maroni fell from 2 stories. Cut the realism crap WTF!? You better time travel back to 2005 to tell this to Nolan before he realeses BB:o

[Psycho_Sith]

He's ALIVE. I'm sure of it. If Bats didn't die on that fall, neither did he. He just got knocked unconscious. Granted, Bats has a incredible suit but he didn't die

Exactly, Bats is wearing a suit that protects him from (some) gunfire..not blunt force trauma (such as impact from falling), his cape takes the brunt of the fall off of him as with his fall with Rachel from his penthouse or in BB when he leaps from the window when Scarecrow lights him up.

If you threw a guy in a bullet proof vest off a building, that vest won't save his life. That fall didn't kill either of 'em.

[Sam_Cooksey]

There's a difference between "realism" and REAL.

It's a movie - ANYTHING can happen.

The question comes down to intent. And again I say, Nolan is TOO GOOD of a filmmaker/storyteller for over 77% of respondents to this pole to think something (the ambiguity of Dent's "death" or lack thereof) unless that is exactly the result he was aiming for.

I Believe in Christopher Nolan. ;)

[obiwan]

realism in comic book films is kinda stupid when youi think about it. a certain amount is ok but you need the fantasy stuff, its essential.

[kevin2323]

Maroni fell from 2 stories. Cut the realism crap WTF!? You better time travel back to 2005 to tell this to Nolan before he realeses BB:o


YEA CUT IT... IF maroni is walkin around using a cane after breaking his legs two face could have easily survived a fall from similar height. and oh what a surprise two face is the only one that survived the car crash because he wore his seatbelt? lol give me a break. The movie is not completely realistic, If not it wouldnt be a comic book movie.

[chaseter]

Exactly, Bats is wearing a suit that protects him from (some) gunfire..not blunt force trauma (such as impact from falling), his cape takes the brunt of the fall off of him as with his fall with Rachel from his penthouse or in BB when he leaps from the window when Scarecrow lights him up.

If you threw a guy in a bullet proof vest off a building, that vest won't save his life. That fall didn't kill either of 'em.
How do you explain the parking garage then if Batman's suit does nothing for falls? Do you think Harvey Dent would have survived that fall as well:huh:

Plus, a few of you are also ignoring the fact that Batman hit boards while he was falling, that slows down his fall and decreases the force upon impact when he hits the ground.

[jsf]

all i ask, is IF they do another film is that they do it somewhat sooner than 3 years

[chaseter]

Sure the writers can write back in Two Face any way they want...but from what we have (including the script that says he is dead) then he is dead. Plus, keeping him alive cheapens the story from the movie. If you actually thought about the theme of TDK, you would understand.

[DACrowe]

They can write him back in, that doesn't mean they should and since Nolan and Goyer are back my guess is they'll move on. The ending to TDK is pretty perfect, why **** with it? So Two-Face can kill more gangsters and try to kill Batman again? I love Two-Face but let it go.

Or don't. Wait until they reveal the villains in 2010 or whenever and be shocked that "Two-Face isn't coming back."

P.S. To the comments that "if he dies, Batman broke his rule!" I think that was the point Nolan was making.

[kevin2323]

Sure the writers can write back in Two Face any way they want...but from what we have (including the script that says he is dead) then he is dead. Plus, keeping him alive cheapens the story from the movie. If you actually thought about the theme of TDK, you would understand.

If you thought about the theme and Batman's 1 rule you would understand why it is left ambiguous.

[kevin2323]

They can write him back in, that doesn't mean they should and since Nolan and Goyer are back my guess is they'll move on. The ending to TDK is pretty perfect, why **** with it? So Two-Face can kill more gangsters and try to kill Batman again? I love Two-Face but let it go.

Or don't. Wait until they reveal the villains in 2010 or whenever and be shocked that "Two-Face isn't coming back."

P.S. To the comments that "if he dies, Batman broke his rule!" I think that was the point Nolan was making.


I disagree with that completely.

[chaseter]

If you thought about the theme and Batman's 1 rule you would understand why it is left ambiguous.
Why do you think Batman took the fall for all the murders...including Harvey's?

What do you think the theme was and how does Harvey living fit in?

[Psycho_Sith]

How do you explain the parking garage then if Batman's suit does nothing for falls? Do you think Harvey Dent would have survived that fall as well:huh:

Plus, a few of you are also ignoring the fact that Batman hit boards while he was falling, that slows down his fall and decreases the force upon impact when he hits the ground.

In the garage Batman used his cape to help with that drop, plus that wasn't a "fall".

You have a point about ignoring the hitting boards on the way down there.

[Silver Souper]

Let's look at it from a filmmaking perspective.

1) Nolan is a meticulous filmmaker. He leaves no stone unturned and if he shows/says something or does not show/say something it is ON PURPOSE. The ambiguity was intentional.

2) Nolan is a very rep[etative filmmaker. Look at his body of work (Memento - hello!) and even in his Batman movies where similar themes recur constantly throughout. Okay...so we see Joker "dead" on the pool table - oops just kidding he's alive! We see Gordon "dead" at the podium - oops just kidding he's alive! We see Dent "dead" at the bottom of a two story fall - hmmm....

3) Finally, when Batman is interrogating Maroni he says something to the effect of "everyone knows you won't die from a fall of this height" and is them dropped from a higher point than Dent. And before you get all "he landed on his feet" on me, we never saw Dent land (which reverts us back to #1)

great points. you said exactly what I would have.

[kevin2323]

Why do you think Batman took the fall for all the murders...including Harvey's?

What do you think the theme was and how does Harvey living fit in?

So people wouldn't see what Harvey became and if they took him in and tried him gotham would lose all hope. But with him taking the blame it leaves the perfect opening for the third to be about batman redeeming himself and finally people see what harvey became and batman becomes the definitive protector of gotham. I believe no matter how many villains batman catches he will always be known as the guy who killed the white knight, therefore two face being alive is perfect IMO. But the way you see it is also good as well, but I'm not closing in on one or the other till the third comes out.

[DACrowe]

I disagree with that completely.

I bet you do.

[kevin2323]

I bet you do.



NOnononoNONO i bet YOUUUUUUUUUU DO!:oldrazz:

[DACrowe]

Have fun in denial, kiddo. ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[kevin2323]

Have fun in denial, kiddo. ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Have fun being narrowminded and ignorant, nublet.:whatever:

sorry, could't resist.:grin:

[Knight_Of_Steel]

Dent had a funeral......

[chaseter]

So people wouldn't see what Harvey became and if they took him in and tried him gotham would lose all hope. But with him taking the blame it leaves the perfect opening for the third to be about batman redeeming himself and finally people see what harvey became and batman becomes the definitive protector of gotham. I believe no matter how many villains batman catches he will always be known as the guy who killed the white knight, therefore two face being alive is perfect IMO. But the way you see it is also good as well, but I'm not closing in on one or the other till the third comes out.
You neither stated what the theme was nor how Harvey being alive or dead fit in there.

I wish they would have kept Two Face alive for sure but the way TDK was written, his death serves the story perfectly.

[kevin2323]

You neither stated what the theme was nor how Harvey being alive or dead fit in there.

I wish they would have kept Two Face alive for sure but the way TDK was written, his death serves the story perfectly.


why would he ''endure'' like alfred told him. Why would he go by and do nothing while the joker killed people and then at the end he would kill two face and break the rule after enduring so much. Harvey died a hero and lived long enough to become the villain batman too kthe blame for him so he wouldnt have to be the villain. Batman never broke his one rule therfore two face must be alive so batman can redeem himself in the next film. Honestly it works with him dead or alive IMO.

[digu rui]

Dent had a funeral......

hhaha exactly. sorry but hes definitely dead

[chaseter]

why would he ''endure'' like alfred told him. Why would he go by and do nothing while the joker killed people and then at the end he would kill two face and break the rule after enduring so much. Harvey died a hero and lived long enough to become the villain batman too kthe blame for him so he wouldnt have to be the villain. Batman never broke his one rule therfore two face must be alive so batman can redeem himself in the next film. Honestly it works with him dead or alive IMO.
The theme of the movie deals with the ambiguity of morals. Morals as in choosing Harvey or Rachel, choosing whether to blow up a ferry or die, choosing whether to save or kill. Batman choose to save Gordon's kid at the cost of Harvey Dent. Even if Batman broke his only rule, do you think it would have been fine to set there and watch the kid get shot just to hold up his morals? Batman let Harvey die and therefore became the hero Gotham needed him to be, the bad guy. Batman grew in this movie, he was about to give up and let Harvey Dent take over but in the end he took over for Harvey Dent to become something bigger even though he will be hated. Batman is something more as Alfred explained to Rachel before she died.

[kevin2323]

The theme of the movie deals with the ambiguity of morals. Morals as in choosing Harvey or Rachel, choosing whether to blow up a ferry or die, choosing whether to save or kill. Batman choose to save Gordon's kid at the cost of Harvey Dent. Even if Batman broke his only rule, do you think it would have been fine to set there and watch the kid get shot just to hold up his morals? Batman let Harvey die and therefore became the hero Gotham needed him to be, the bad guy. Batman grew in this movie, he was about to give up and let Harvey Dent take over but in the end he took over for Harvey Dent to become something bigger even though he will be hated. Batman is something more as Alfred explained to Rachel before she died.

I understand your point.

[dylan21484nj]

read this on IGN today, this should pretty much end the debate on whether he's dead or alive:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html?RSSwhen2008-07-22_171800&RSSid=892656

Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

so he could be dead, he could be alive, this was intentionally done. the Harvey Dent arc in the movie had closure and he may remain dead in future films, but there's enough ambiguity to allow him to return in the future. so he could return in the next film, the film after that, or not at all. it all depends on what Nolan & Co. (or whoever takes over the reins when Nolan is gone) conjure up in the future.

[ryan dube]

For us Fan Boys, I think they might do with Aaron that they did with Cyllian, just a cameo. That would be cool and then turn the attention to a bigger crook in Gotham.

I do like the 50/50 rule, but I know that he did not die according to the story. They would not have kept Batman's one rule a theme if he was going to break it in the end....

[Infinity9999x]

Even though I'd like him to be alive, I think Two-Face is probably dead.

For all those discussing the mechanics of the fall, we have to remember this. Batman tackled Harvey off of that ledge. So Harvey was in effect thrown towards the ground.

Batman fell from a hanging position (reducing the hight Harvey fell from by about 6 feet) and he hit boards on the way down that slowed his fall. He didn't hit the ground with nearly as much force as Harvey would have.

[ross2287]

Dent had a funeral......

It was a memorial service. :woot:

[Kahran Ramsus]

I bet you do.

I don't buy that either. Based on how it went down, Dent's death seemed more accidental. It didn't look like Batman intentionally tried to kill him, but only tried to save Gordon's son.

[Keyser Soze]

While I acknowledge it's more likely that he is dead, I'd like to think that he survived. I think the door is open, that they could go either way with it.

[Seditionary]

Isn't the whole friggin idea of this two face character, a man that relies on a coin to make decisions based on chance or fate to sort out what is fair or right and not what is legal, is exactly where they could go with a third movie?

Batman is now public enemy number one, hes doing the right thing but hes breaking the law. Maybe catwoman is in it, and shes breaking the law but she isn't causing any harm besides stealing expensive ****. Sounds like the line between right and wrong is getting blurry.

There is plenty to use two face for...his arch isn't over. Just because he shot batman, doesn't mean he "lost it all" or that he paid the consequences he was responsible for. They are not even. And he spoiled two faces judgement on gordons son. Ramirez is alive, who also broke the law and accepted money for her mothers hospital fees. Hes got alot of unfinished business.

The joker also "dragged him down" to his and batman's level. Like a freak, or a superhero/supervillain, hero, anti-hero.

And batman's ****en parents died and he didnt get "Revenge" and hes on this life long quest...Maybe two face will never really know whos responsible and could go on a quest of his own.

Heads up.

[Xenres]

WENN is reporting that Aaron Ekchart mentioned a desire to return for a third Batman film.

Aaron Eckhart would reprise his role from The Dark Knight - because working with Christian Bale is "phenomenal".

Eckhart, who plays District Attorney Harvey Dent in the sequel, confesses he "absolutely" would star in a third Batman film.

He tells WENN, "To work with Christian (Bale) all over again, and the cast, would be phenomenal. I think this movie is a movie of a lifetime."

http://us.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/
I think this just adds more fuel to the speculation. Wouldn't he be the first to know if his character had indeed been killed? If was keen to return, I would think that it definitely opens up the possibility that Two-Face is alive. Harvey--maybe not so much. But Two-Face... I could see it.

[MovieGeekFreak]

While I acknowledge it's more likely that he is dead, I'd like to think that he survived. I think the door is open, that they could go either way with it.

i agree but his neck broke so hes dead

[jtfaria]

read this on IGN today, this should pretty much end the debate on whether he's dead or alive:

the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

so he could be dead, he could be alive, this was intentionally done. the Harvey Dent arc in the movie had closure and he may remain dead in future films, but there's enough ambiguity to allow him to return in the future. so he could return in the next film, the film after that, or not at all. it all depends on what Nolan & Co. (or whoever takes over the reins when Nolan is gone) conjure up in the future.

From the horse's mouth! (http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html?RSSwhen2008-07-22_171800&RSSid=892656) And as such, means a lot more than the overheated wrangling of these boards. THANK YOU.

Of course, there's no fact that will satisfy SOME people. For them, another means of settling disputes is needed. Fortunately, I have my lucky coin right here...

[Keyser Soze]

I think, if they wanted to have definitely killed off Harvey Dent, they could have made it a lot less ambiguous. Like, he falls to the ground, but Batman falls too, and is quick to get back up onto his feet, quickly establishing it is possible to survive this fall. Dent's eye is closed, rather than your usual "dead-eyed glare" you get to indicate someone is dead. We see a service where Gordon praises Dent, but we don't see a casket.

One thing that occurred to me is....perhaps the original intention was for Dent to die, but with Ledger's death, they altered things in the editing to make it more ambiguous, so the possiblity was open to bring back Two-Face as a recurring villain instead of Joker?

[Fanticon]

excuse me if this has already been said...but I believe that at lest in Nolan's vision the only plausible way to have Two Face appear with his scarring in the movies was to have them appear this fresh and disgusting...but if he were to pop up in a third movie...it wouldn't work...he'd have died of his wounds from infection and it would not look the same. Just my 2 cents.

[Tron5000]

i agree but his neck broke so hes dead

Yeah, I remember that line where Gordon says, "His neck is broke." Oh, wait. That didn't happen. Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

[MovieGeekFreak]

Yeah, I remember that line where Gordon says, "His neck is broke." Oh, wait. That didn't happen. Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

says it in the script genius

[CaptainClown]

They don't always do what the script does....

[chaseter]

WENN is reporting that Aaron Ekchart mentioned a desire to return for a third Batman film.
I think this just adds more fuel to the speculation. Wouldn't he be the first to know if his character had indeed been killed? If was keen to return, I would think that it definitely opens up the possibility that Two-Face is alive. Harvey--maybe not so much. But Two-Face... I could see it.
No as nothing has been written. The script says he died so there ya go.

[Keyser Soze]

One point to bring up: why does Two-Face have to live? Don't get me wrong, I really want him to be alive. But....Scarecrow survived, and what did that amount to? A tiny cameo in the next film.

In all honesty, I'm not even thinking about a thid film. "The Dark Knight", for me, is the ultimate Batman film, if not the ultimate film. They could not make anymore, and I'd be totally happy with what we have. So, bringing back Dent - or anyone else! - for a third film would just be a bonus.

[MovieGeekFreak]

They don't always do what the script does....

i don't mean to sound like a jerk but its the official shooting script and you couldn't see him breathing at the end

frankly i wish he was alive

[Tron5000]

says it in the script genius

My, such a tone. I'll bet you feel like a cool guy now, huh? Did you come up with "genius" on your own, or did you have to hit the thesaurus?

A script is not what is on film. Changes are always made. And considering that there is a quote 1 page back from a TDK producer who says that the ending was left "ambiguous," I'll kind of go with what was said at the premier, rather than a "script" that someone got their hands on.

That OK with you, Corky?

[Tron5000]

Dp.

[CaptainClown]

i don't mean to sound like a jerk but its the official shooting script and you couldn't see him breathing at the end

frankly i wish he was alive
They could have shot it and edited it out. It could have not been shot at all. Chances are it is shot but they simply decided not to show it. If they didn't want to show it there is a reason.

[Tron5000]

They could have shot it and edited it out. It could have not been shot at all. Chances are it is shot but they simply decided not to show it. If they didn't want to show it there is a reason.

Perhaps they intended for Heath to reprise his role as Joker in the next film, but after his untimely death, they decided to bring back Two Face instead. Just a thought.

[CaptainClown]

Perhaps they intended for Heath to reprise his role as Joker in the next film, but after his untimely death, they decided to bring back Two Face instead. Just a thought.
Certainly is a thought. Maybe they are giving two-face a SECOND chance :woot:

[Keyser Soze]

Perhaps they intended for Heath to reprise his role as Joker in the next film, but after his untimely death, they decided to bring back Two Face instead. Just a thought.

I agree. That's what I said on the last page:

"One thing that occurred to me is....perhaps the original intention was for Dent to die, but with Ledger's death, they altered things in the editing to make it more ambiguous, so the possiblity was open to bring back Two-Face as a recurring villain instead of Joker?"

[Tron5000]

I agree. That's what I said on the last page:

"One thing that occurred to me is....perhaps the original intention was for Dent to die, but with Ledger's death, they altered things in the editing to make it more ambiguous, so the possiblity was open to bring back Two-Face as a recurring villain instead of Joker?"

6 away from 10,000. Make it a good one.

[ddm92392]

Lets keep in mind that Batman fell the same length Harvey did I think that most likely he's not dead but will return later in either the end of 3 or as the villian in a possible 4

[samsnee]

Of course Two-Face is alive. How else would he have been able to team up with the Riddler in Batman Forever?

[ddm92392]

R U serious?

[Borat]

Of course Two-Face is alive. How else would he have been able to team up with the Riddler in Batman Forever?Lol! :woot:

[Golgo-13]

Nolan say's he's alive. So that confirms it.

Close thread.

[Figs]

edit

[Rezzo]

Nolan say's he's alive. So that confirms it.

Close thread.

Awesome, where did he say this?

[DACrowe]

I thought I was kind of done with this discussion, but I just listened to the interview with Jonah Nolan on creative script writing (brilliant interview that digs deep into the movie btw, worth listening to for anyone who liked that movie).

Anyway, he said that they have REALLY not thought about the third and there is no overlying plot thread for them. Chris is seriously not sure he is going to do another one unless he thinks he can make a better movie than the last one. David Goyer apparently spent two weeks convincing Nolan to do TDK and that it was worth revisiting. I don't know if that's the case if they will be back. I hope they are.

Even if they are though, they really aren't planning overarching stories or plot threads to save. They are trying to make each movie the best they can which is why TDK seems to involve plot threads from what Goyer was thinking about for two sesquels, except in one.

For that reason I'm going to assume that unless Nolan/Goyer feel there is no other story to tell without Two-Face he is meant to be dead. TDK is meant to possibly stand alone and for that to work Dent is dead. They can retconn it later, but there are no plans for the next one yet in Nolan and Jonah Nolan's heads and they did not hold anything back. For now, at least, Two-Face is dead.

Really interesting interview.

[Figs]

edit

[Eagle_23]

I just read this over on IGN.com and found it pleasantly suggestive that we haven't seen the last of Two Face,

"Why not just recast the Joker and bring back Two-Face, you ask? With Heath Ledger dead and his portrayal of the Joker now indelibly etched into filmgoers' minds, we think it highly unlikely that the filmmakers would recast the role to bring the Clown Prince back. It would also be tough for that character to top what he did to Batman and Gotham in TDK so perhaps once is enough. Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive."

http://movies.ign.com/articles/892/892656p1.html

Not to mention as everyone has said/read Aaron Eckhart has been signed to do 2 movies. So here's hoping....

To quote my original post,


What's the debate about?

[Borat]

To quote my original post AND the fact that Nolan just 'hinted' at him not being dead,




What's the debate about?Nolan didn't say that. It was a troll.

[Eagle_23]

My mistake then. But still the producers comment holds true.

[magus]

The script saying that Dent is dead is not the definitive word that he is dead for the entire series: it means he is dead in the context of this single film. It is ambiguous enough from the viewer's POV that they could bring him back in the third one without a huge stretch of the imagination.

[DSET]

I think, if they wanted to have definitely killed off Harvey Dent, they could have made it a lot less ambiguous. Like, he falls to the ground, but Batman falls too, and is quick to get back up onto his feet, quickly establishing it is possible to survive this fall. Dent's eye is closed, rather than your usual "dead-eyed glare" you get to indicate someone is dead. We see a service where Gordon praises Dent, but we don't see a casket.

One thing that occurred to me is....perhaps the original intention was for Dent to die, but with Ledger's death, they altered things in the editing to make it more ambiguous, so the possiblity was open to bring back Two-Face as a recurring villain instead of Joker?
agreed
this was my initial thought early in this thread aswell, but people insist on saying that nobody is ready to accept that hes dead.

personally I liked the ending and it works and fits perfectly with the movie Ill be happy if hes back or not back in p3,
but i still think there is a window of possibility.

[Sam_Cooksey]

Quick question for those who read the script:

Is every single thing/line/scene/scenario that appears in the script also in the film?

The "It is in the script" argument is not a concrete argument, and actually reinforces the ambiguity of his death in the actual on screen movie...because if death was UNDENIABLE in the script and is VAGUE/OPEN TO INTERPRETATION in the film...then it was done so ON PURPOSE!

Nolan isn't a hack!

And this has nothing to do with Dent appearing in a sequel. It has to do with Filmmaking and storytelling, people!

[Figs]

Quick question for those who read the script:

Is every single thing/line/scene/scenario that appears in the script also in the film?

The "It is in the script" argument is not a concrete argument, and actually reinforces the ambiguity of his death in the actual on screen movie...because if death was UNDENIABLE in the script and is VAGUE/OPEN TO INTERPRETATION in the film...then it was done so ON PURPOSE!

Nolan isn't a hack!

And this has nothing to do with Dent appearing in a sequel. It has to do with Filmmaking and storytelling, people!

Not everything that was in the script was in the movie. I'd say 98-99% of it made it in though.

If anything Ledger made up some stuff on the spot for his performance that wasn't in the script as well.

[chaseter]

Nolan say's he's alive. So that confirms it.

Close thread.
Uhhh no he didn't...quit trolling.

[DACrowe]

I'm not going to debate this much further. Look the fact is Nolan and co. have not planned the next one. There is no intended cliffhanger to this movie. There is no super-secret twist for BB3.

They threw everything into this movie (including what Goyer proposed to be BB3) and tried to make it the best they could. Nolan directed it only after Goyer spent two weeks convincing him to do another and there is literally nothing set in stone that they will come back for the third and Nolan will have to be convinced again. Granted, they can change their mind, but as of right now everything they wanted to say about the characters in this movie was said. In which case, they intended Dent to be dead and he is until stated otherwise. Holding onto hope that the shooting script is wrong, the screenwriter/brother of the director is wrong and the movie itself is wrong is a waste of an awful lot of energy. Really.

[ShadowBoxing]

According to the original plans, Dent was to be the villain in the third film. So it's a good bet he'll be back. Yes there were some changes to Goyer's original storyline for movie two, which would have had Joker literally scaring Dent (perhaps in a court room), but he still did scar Dent. Is he dead? Give me a goddamn break. If they wanted him dead, they'd say he was dead. After all this talk of Batman not killing, after he saves Joker from falling, after he's calculated the height at which a man wouldn't be killed (Maroni) he's going to slip up and kill a former friend, don't be ridiculous. Harvey Dent is dead, yes, and that still follows the theme, but Two-Face isn't.

[Sam_Cooksey]

Holding onto hope that the shooting script is wrong, the screenwriter/brother of the director is wrong and the movie itself is wrong is a waste of an awful lot of energy. Really.

So then the final edit was "wrong" because it left a hole in the story so large almost eighty percent of folks polled here feel his death was ambiguous?

Just to clear up who's "wrong" ;)

[chaseter]

So then the final edit was "wrong" because it left a hole in the story so large almost eighty percent of folks polled here feel his death was ambiguous?

Just to clear up who's "wrong" ;)
We don't write the scripts for the third movie. Right now he is dead as it says in the script that we didn't write. He can be brought back but that has nothing to do with what people on here think.

[Sam_Cooksey]

We don't write the scripts for the third movie. Right now he is dead as it says in the script that we didn't write. He can be brought back but that has nothing to do with what people on here think.

So the script is concrete then. Nothing else was left out/added/changed between it and the final cut of the film?

Because, like most people, it is the final cut of the film, that is projected on the screen, that tells the story to me. Not the script.

And if it ended up vague on the screen...it wasn't an accident. That's all I'm sayin'

[Batty Belfry]

Harvey Dent is dead. However it could be plausible that Two-Face could still be alive. I think the ending was crafted in a very clever manner. How many times has Dent/Two-Face appear to have died, only to show up again? He could show up in the third. It would be exactly the kind of mind-job Mr. Nolan is known for. Fans would be wondering how the heck that happened. I like some of the theories bouncing around in this thread.

I think it's a "50/50 chance" that it could go either way. :grin:

[dylan21484nj]

So the script is concrete then. Nothing else was left out/added/changed between it and the final cut of the film?

Because, like most people, it is the final cut of the film, that is projected on the screen, that tells the story to me. Not the script.

And if it ended up vague on the screen...it wasn't an accident. That's all I'm sayin'

as a film student in college, i know for a fact that not everything that's in the script makes it 100% to the screen. scenes are reworked all the time during rehearsals, during filming, and even during postproduction. there are rewrites, running changes, and editing that can drastically change even a single scene. and any number of factors can cause it. the director might change his mind anytime during the filmmaking process, the production company or test audiences might want changes that require reshoots, multiple endings or multiple variations of the same scene are shot because the filmmaker just isn't sure of which variation he wants to go with, and so on.

[DACrowe]

So then the final edit was "wrong" because it left a hole in the story so large almost eighty percent of folks polled here feel his death was ambiguous?

Just to clear up who's "wrong" ;)

The same numbers for Venom. :rolleyes:

Nolan has no plans for the third right now, so he intended him to be dead when this movie was made. If it changes fine, for now there was no intention for him to be thought of alive. But go ahead and think that.

[DACrowe]

According to the original plans, Dent was to be the villain in the third film. So it's a good bet he'll be back. Yes there were some changes to Goyer's original storyline for movie two, which would have had Joker literally scaring Dent (perhaps in a court room), but he still did scar Dent. Is he dead? Give me a goddamn break. If they wanted him dead, they'd say he was dead. After all this talk of Batman not killing, after he saves Joker from falling, after he's calculated the height at which a man wouldn't be killed (Maroni) he's going to slip up and kill a former friend, don't be ridiculous. Harvey Dent is dead, yes, and that still follows the theme, but Two-Face isn't.

I'm just gonna' point out those original plans had Dent being scarred and becoming Two-Face in the third movie. That happened halfway through TDK. As Nolan said "we put everything we could into this movie."

Goyer has said now he is thinking about a female character, and unless Two-Face is half-woman as well, keep that in mind too.

[Ratatat]

The same numbers for Venom. :rolleyes:

Nolan has no plans for the third right now, so he intended him to be dead when this movie was made. If it changes fine, for now there was no intention for him to be thought of alive. But go ahead and think that.

Then why didn't they show a funeral with a casket and make it obvious he was going to be buried hmmm?

Nolan left it open. There was no intention to assume he's DEAD dead either.

[Rogzilla]

Likewise, the ending of TDK seemed to suggest that Harvey Dent/Two-Face was dead, although producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive.

Man, it is so hard being right all the time. I think I deserve some cake!

:-P

[Ratatat]

I'm just gonna' point out those original plans had Dent being scarred and becoming Two-Face in the third movie. That happened halfway through TDK. As Nolan said "we put everything we could into this movie."

Goyer has said now he is thinking about a female character, and unless Two-Face is half-woman as well, keep that in mind too.

The only thing I've heard Goyer say is that he has talked briefly with Nolan about a theme and a villain. He didn't say who or what.

[ShadowBoxing]

Man, it is so hard being right all the time. I think I deserve some cake!

:-P
It's probably gauging interest in the character too. They need someone to top the last film, especially now with Ledger gone, and it can't be some flash in the pan villain. Harvey is the logical choice, but I think by ending it this way they have they option to use him or not use him; kind of like with Ra's Al Ghul, and we all know he's technically still kicking around now too.

Also, remember, this movie is technically the Long Halloween with some major changes made, but it follows a similar plotline with a series of murders that shake Gotham to it's core. Does anyone remember how Dark Victory began; with a Harvey Dent, under the watchful eye of Gordon, sitting in a cell at Arkham, hinden from the public.

[dylan21484nj]

i think Nolan & Co. did this in a very smart way. Dent's arc is essentially finished at the end of TDK. he appears dead, so if his character is never explored again, so his story has closure and there's no real loose ends to tie up. but if they do decide to explore his character again and he is still alive, possibly locked away in Arkham while the world thinks he's dead, he could escape and start killing again. his resurfacing would exonorate Batman for the murders he took responsibilty for and put him back in Gotham's good graces, but it would also raise problems for Gordon, who covered up his capture by declaring him dead, bringing his reputation as the new commissioner under question. and since Nolan likes to give these stories larger subtexts, Harvey's secret incarceration could mirror the Guantanamo Bay situation. Dent's escape would also strain Gordon's already strained family life, since the man who tried to kill his family is once again on the loose, and Gordon would have likely not told them that Dent was still alive.

[Vile]

Denial is the first stop on the road to acceptance.

[Sam_Cooksey]

You know, the script for Empire Strikes Back had Vader saying "Obi Wan killed your father" and not "I killed your father." to Luke.

shhhh - don't tell DACrowe - he'll start insisting Vader isn't Luke's dad because the script said so!

The point is, for whatever reason, Dent's death was left ambiguous ON SCREEN on purpose.

Ambiguous: equivocal: open to two or more interpretations; or of uncertain nature or significance; or (often) intended to mislead; "an equivocal statement ..."

[DACrowe]

I like apples.

[ShadowBoxing]

You know, the script for Empire Strikes Back had Vader saying "Obi Wan killed your father" and not "I killed your father." to Luke.

shhhh - don't tell DACrowe - he'll start insisting Vader isn't Luke's dad because the script said so!

The point is, for whatever reason, Dent's death was left ambiguous ON SCREEN on purpose.

Ambiguous: equivocal: open to two or more interpretations; or of uncertain nature or significance; or (often) intended to mislead; "an equivocal statement ..."I wonder what the script says when Gordon gets shot; does it say he's dead?

[DACrowe]

Have fun being narrowminded and ignorant, nublet.:whatever:

sorry, could't resist.:grin:

bye kettle.

[Ratatat]

I like apples.

But the question is, do they like you?

[Rogzilla]

I like apples.

Me too!

[Spider-Fan]

Denial is the first stop on the road to acceptance.

Indeed it is :up:

They can just take solace in that their wounds will heal in time.

[Sam_Cooksey]

But the question is, do they like you?

They do.

We should all be as loving and accepting as apples.

WWAD (what would apples do?)

[Spider-Fan]

I prefer oranges :cmad:

[DACrowe]

Pears are good too.

[I Am The Knight]

I prefer Two-Faces. :o

[Rogzilla]

You know what is good? Peaches!

Millions of peaches, peaches for me! Millions of peaches, peaches for free!

[DACrowe]

Don't forget grapes!

or bananas.

[chaseter]

So the script is concrete then. Nothing else was left out/added/changed between it and the final cut of the film?

Because, like most people, it is the final cut of the film, that is projected on the screen, that tells the story to me. Not the script.

And if it ended up vague on the screen...it wasn't an accident. That's all I'm sayin'
How is a man lying there not breathing for 5 minutes after falling from 4 stories and recently having his face half burnt off and denying all medical attention not dead:huh: You cannot lay there in agonizing pain and hold your breath until the coroner arrives. If Two Face does come back, his legs are broken and he will be hobbling around with a cane like Maroni:o

Fanboys are forgetting the fact that Two Face if still alive is now seriously injured. He isn't going to be magically back on his feet running around killing cops.

[coleyhinson]

The script saying that Dent is dead is not the definitive word that he is dead for the entire series: it means he is dead in the context of this single film. It is ambiguous enough from the viewer's POV that they could bring him back in the third one without a huge stretch of the imagination.
never thought of it like that... I like your argument and am hereby adopting it as my own

[Vile]

I prefer Two-Faces. :o


Then you're in for a disappointment.

He's dead. :woot:

[ShadowBoxing]

How is a man lying there not breathing for 5 minutes after falling from 4 stories and recently having his face half burnt off and denying all medical attention not dead:huh: You cannot lay there in agonizing pain and hold your breath until the coroner arrives. If Two Face does come back, his legs are broken and he will be hobbling around with a cane like Maroni:o

Fanboys are forgetting the fact that Two Face if still alive is now seriously injured. He isn't going to be magically back on his feet running around killing cops.That's assuming part three pics up tomorrow and not a year later, as this one did.

[chaseter]

That's assuming part three pics up tomorrow and not a year later, as this one did.
I thought this one was mere days after the first one:huh:

[ShadowBoxing]

I thought this one was mere days after the first one:huh:
"Let's turn back the clocks a year, these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare touch you...I mean what happened". Seems to suggest from that line that Batman's been out there for a while.

[Rogzilla]

No, it has been somewhere around a year as there had to be time for Dent to run for and win District Attorney. Remember, the DA in the first film was Finch and he was killed the night before the climax.

And yes, also Joker's line.

[The_Walker]

If it was days how would he have already the new Batcave, computers, etc. ?

[chaseter]

"Let's turn back the clocks a year, these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare touch you...I mean what happened". Seems to suggest from that line that Batman's been out there for a while.
Well that is a bit of a stretch. Gotham has been corrupt for decades. I thought I read somewhere that TDK was a few days after Begins. Until I find it though I will agree with you.

[chaseter]

If it was days how would he have already the new Batcave, computers, etc. ?
It wasn't a cave:o It seems they have a pretty quick turn around time in this universe for new gadgets, gizmos, etc... Batman is needed by Gotham desperately. I am sure Bruce went straight to work fixing up a new headquarters with the help of Fox and R&D.

[Savage]

Well besides Harvey as the DA, being in a relationship with Rachel long enough to nearly become engaged (the woman just loves DAs), Joker's line, and Wayne preparing a new headquarters and living quarters, there's also the line I noticed when Gordon first mentions Joker in the movie and Batman replies something like "Him again?" implying that there's some kind of history there between the movies. The movie just felt like it's been a while since the first one to me. If Batman Begins was Year One, The Dark Knight is Year Two (not the entire years, obviously, since both Batman portions in the movies take place in a matter of days).

[AnorexicBatman]

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

PWNED!!!
OH NOLAN YOU THE MAN NOW DAWG!!

[beyond_death]

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

PWNED!!!
OH NOLAN YOU THE MAN NOW DAWG!!

Hmm...

[Vile]

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265713/

PWNED!!!
OH NOLAN YOU THE MAN NOW DAWG!!

I take it you didnt actually READ the article?

[AnorexicBatman]

Tell me is Eckhart stupid?
Why is he talking about returning in the 3rd film when he knows his character is dead?
How dumb! Harvey's dead Eckhart! You ain't coming back!!



OR MAYBE?

From the new interview:
About halfway in, he mentions the SHH! boards and does indeed confirm that the Joker said six and regarding Two-Face's death, he said something like, "Those bloody fools think I'm going to kill one of the greatest of Batman's rogues? I'm not Tim Burton or Joel Schumacher."

BUHAHAHAHAHAHa!

So either Eckhart's stupid and Nolan is bat**** insane

OR

Some people were wrong!

[Vile]

...anyone got the article where Raimi says that Octopus may not be dead and who knows, he may show up again?


Exactly.

[Rorschach II]

Okay, for the last time, stop comparing this movie to the Spider-man movies. They are made by different people.

Eckhart is actually signed on for two movies. Molina wasn't.

[Vile]

Doesnt change the fact that he's dead.

Does that mean they can't bring him back? Of course not! Writers can do whatever they want. He could come back as a cyborg that shoots lasers out his eyes if they want.


But that doesnt change the fact that as of right now, in The Dark Knight, he's dead.

[Rorschach II]

Except that he's not.

[AnorexicBatman]

OMG MR. Vile! Your so right!!
That you! Thank you!

Your just angry because Nolan called us "bloddy fools"
LOL! Even if Harvey's dead, that quote is still win!

[Vile]

Even if Harvey's dead, that quote is still win!

Works for me. =)

[The Battousai]

Tell me is Eckhart stupid?
Why is he talking about returning in the 3rd film when he knows his character is dead?
How dumb! Harvey's dead Eckhart! You ain't coming back!!

Read his wording - he said he'd "love to" do another. That doesn't mean that he can or will be able to.

This has happened with other movies as well.

OR MAYBE?

From the new interview:
About halfway in, he mentions the SHH! boards and does indeed confirm that the Joker said six and regarding Two-Face's death, he said something like, "Those bloody fools think I'm going to kill one of the greatest of Batman's rogues? I'm not Tim Burton or Joel Schumacher."

BUHAHAHAHAHAHa!

So either Eckhart's stupid and Nolan is bat**** insane

OR

Some people were wrong!

Actually, that whole bit is complete bull****. If you actually listen to the audio feed, you'll notice that Chris never mentions specific plot points - especially not something as minute as the "six" fiasco.

You fail.

[AnorexicBatman]

^ Great work Sherlock! Your smarter than that Mr. Reese chap! CONGRATS!

A wonderful extra on the Dark Knight DVD!

Nolan comes on screen with a white screen and shows a coin, "Is he dead?"
Turns it around, "Or is he alive?"

Then he screams, "YOU WILL NEVER FIND OUT BECAUSE I QUIT!!! BUHAHAHAHAHAHA! *twirls hair evily* I'm a dog chasing after cars! I just do things"

Finally, Bale comes on screen for a sec screaming, "PWNED! NANANANANA- BATMAN!"

[The Battousai]

Ha...ha..ha..ha..ha.ha.ha...ha.ha...hoo.hee.hah.ho o.hah...

...and I thought MY jokes were bad...

[ABleedingCorpse]

^ Great work Sherlock! Your smarter than that Mr. Reese chap! CONGRATS!

A wonderful extra on the Dark Knight DVD!

Nolan comes on screen with a white screen and shows a coin, "Is he dead?"
Turns it around, "Or is he alive?"

Then he screams, "YOU WILL NEVER FIND OUT BECAUSE I QUIT!!! BUHAHAHAHAHAHA! *twirls hair evily* I'm a dog chasing after cars! I just do things"

Finally, Bale comes on screen for a sec screaming, "PWNED! NANANANANA- BATMAN!"

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

[AnorexicBatman]

But I still feel bad!
Was his death necessary?
What happened to Nolan's one rule of not killing villains?

[Vile]

I guess he "broke his one rule!"

Tee hee hee.

[CrypticOne]

I say Harvey is dead. In Nolan's Batman, Ra's is dead, Harvey is dead. Now, I only say this because Nolan is realistic about his Batman. If he is planning a trilogy, then he's to have the most genius and best story of all time.

[The Battousai]

He said he wouldn't waste a character by killing him/her off without significant reason. He had quite a significant reason for the death of Two-Face, so that's what happened.

I'd have loved to see more, but what was done with Harvey/Two-Face in this film was so perfect that I don't feel cheated by the loss.

[Vile]

I'd have loved to see more, but what was done with Harvey/Two-Face in this film was so perfect that I don't feel cheated by the loss.


Bingo.

[keysi_warrior]

ok I can't quite remember but how far exactly did twoface fall from and how did he land if u look at what kinds of falls people have survived then you can determine how possible it is to bring him back. I know it would a hell of a lot easier to bring twoface back then Venom. On a side note how the hell did batman and rachel survive that fall they took together at that party?

[AnorexicBatman]

I... just... don't ... know
I thought Nolan wanted to keep it realistic on top of which he dislikes Penguin
So naturally, Two-Face, Black Mask, Bane and Hush are the only realistic male villains left
Hush is a bit too over the top, Bane needs serious work leaving only Black and Two.

Oh well

[The Battousai]

How, exactly, is Riddler not on that list?

[Vile]

I would definitly say Riddler and/or Black Mask would be at the front of the line for Batman 3.

[AnorexicBatman]

HAHAHAH! LOL! My Bad!

[Nepenthes]

Bringing him back would unto the entire impact of TDK. It would undermine a great movie.

No room for interpretation. He's dead.

["V"]

He's dead. Batman was able to brace himself for the fall because he was hanging on to the edge before hand, whereas Harvey just plummeted instantly. Bats also clipped those planks of wood, and had the added protection of his suit.

Of course, you can argue that Two Face's absolute fate was ambigious because we didn't see his body in a casket - but we didn't see Loeb's or Rachel's* for that matter - but I don't think they will be coming back! Besides, as mentioned, if he does come back it will feel like a cheap twist and will tarnish the ending of The Dark Knight.

I was really disappointed that Two Face died; I was really hoping that we'd get to see him again in another film and that he would be a constant reminder of Batman's failiure. Also, I may be alone here, but I think it would have been a greater tragedy for him to still be alive because it means he becomes the symbol for everything that he stood against as "the white knight" and that to me is worse because the old Harvey Dent is dead anyway.

In hindsight, we have now lost two great villains, because I very much doubt we'll have another Joker.

*Just realised, they didn't have a funeral or anything for Rachel, but I suppose that Two Face's events happened just a day or so after, so they didn't have time.

[Keyser Soze]

Something else that occurred to me. Anyone considered that Gordon's speech about Dent at the end, with the pictures behind him, might have been not a funeral service... but a vigil?

["V"]

Something else that occurred to me. Anyone considered that Gordon's speech about Dent at the end, with the pictures behind him, might have been not a funeral service... but a vigil?

It's possible, but didn't they had a similar set-up for Loeb?

I think the thing that really suggests Harvey is dead is that Batman and Gordon didn't attempt to get him to an ambulance or give him any medical attention. If Dent/Two Face is alive, what was the point of Batman taking the fall, because Two Face could just go out and do it again and the public's image of Harvey Dent would be destroyed anyway.

[Keyser Soze]

It's possible, but didn't they had a similar set-up for Loeb?

I think the thing that really suggests Harvey is dead is that Batman and Gordon didn't attempt to get him to an ambulance or give him any medical attention. If Dent/Two Face is alive, what was the point of Batman taking the fall, because Two Face could just go out and do it again and the public's image of Harvey Dent would be destroyed anyway.

I think the suggestion being given is that Dent could be secretly locked away in Arkham for treatment. Perhaps Gordon and Batman still believe in the inhrent goodness of Dent, and hope they can save him. Dent's ultimate escape in a third film would in the short term would make for great drama - the city losing the hope Batman fought to give it by taking the blame - while in the long term it would clear Batman's name, and allow them to wrap up the trilogy with Batman as the hero the city needs, rather than the hero it deserves.

But that's just an idea, that I think the film left it open to explore. It's not like I'm desperate for Two-Face to return. In all honesty, I'm not sure if I'm even desperate for a third film at all. As a Batfan, I feel like I got everything I could possibly want in a film from "The Dark Knight".

[Charlie The Red]

I've come to terms with the fact that Two-Face is dead, even though I'd love for him to come back.

Time to make room for Black Mask and his underlings (Firefly, Deadshot, False Face Society) and Catwoman. MAYBE The Riddler if they handle him like they did in Hush.

[CaptainClown]

Hush Riddler was pretty bad ass I will admit that. I do think though that a third movie is the perfect opportunity for the freak/mob characters like Black Mask and Penguin.