Can it be topped?

[He-Man]

This movie is epic on all levels. Is it possible for the next film to meet or top this one? No Joker/Maybe a new actor playing the joker. Can any other villain carry a movie the way the Joker did this one?

[hyphy8686]

I think the phantasm can do it! awesome story great n grimy like character what do you guys think?

[elgato]

Well, it depends, on three things:

1-Nolan will direct it
2-He will put the same or more effort he put to TDK and/or BB
3-He will use good, deep, and at the same time realistic new villains

[Kargo Warrior]

I'm afraid with the unanimous praise the movie is getting from everyone,no mather how good the third part is it will be a disappointment to some degree.

As rare is that part 2 totally outclasses part 1,part 3 outclassing part 2 is almost unheard of especially considering how great TDK is.

But on the other hand did anyone honestly thought when they left the theaters in 2005 that we will get this kind of a masterpiece?

With the right storyline and villain/s part 3 may not be better but i believe it can be just as great,just on another level,in a different way.

We never doubted Nolan after Begins....why start now?

[Rishi]

No, but as long as its as good as BB then I'll be happpy.

[Kargo Warrior]

I can't believe i'm saying this and i'm anxious to see other hypsters responces but i'm totally fine if we dont get a third movie.

Will i scream and jump for 2 days straight if they announce Nolan & crew are back?Most definitelly.

But really,this movie has satisfied my Batman thirst in a way no movie ever has.
What i'm trying to say is when Spider-Man 2 ended i wanted a sequel,same with X2, and the Bourne trilogy and so on...but when TDK ended i felt such a fullfilment,i felt that the story was so rich and full and the ending so perfect that it can be followed with a third part but it didnt featured a cliffhanger just to milk out money from the audiences with part 3.

[jmc]

This needs several things to be topped. It needs Nolan and pretty much every crew member involved with The Dark Knight. It needs Nolan to be 100% totally committed to it, if he comes back for just cash (which I'm doubtful he would) then I won't be as enthused. He needs to add top notch casting in addition to Bale and Co. He needs to ignore fans and studio execs requests to 'do this' or 'add this villain'. Most importantly, and this may sound strange, but I think he has to look at The Dark Knight as an average movie. Pretty much, Nolan has to believe he can deliver something even better than The Dark Knight. Can it be done? Not sure, it's a tough ask for anyone, striking gold once is hard, twice is rare, three times is almost unheard of.

[TwoOfAKind]

It possibly couldn't be topped performance wise but it surely can be topped story wise, but in saying that we will all just have to wait and see what the future holds for Nolan's vision of Batman in film.

[kvz_85]

I doubt that it can be topped (because everything was almost perfect on TDK) but that doesn't mean that the 3rd one can't be really, really good either.

[SuperFerret]

For everything that comes along, no matter what or who it is, there will always be someone or something better.

[Mr. Socko]

Yes, it can be topped.


Except in one way, and that's the villain. Mostly because The Joker is my favorite and Heath was so terrific. Whatever villain they use in the third film, he/she won't be as awesome to me as the Joker so I'd say that's the only aspect that truly can't be topped.

[Gianakin_]

Agreed with Socko. They COULD follow a similar approach to BB, though, and make it more about Bruce/Bats again.

[BatoutofHell]

Yep, 3rd movie should be more Bruce/Batman. Maybe a few second tier villains with Neeson returning or something, I don't know.

What I do want though, is for Murphy to be back in a bigger role if Nolan can make it work, I really liked him in TDK for the brief scene he was in.

[Colossus24]

I think the only way it could be topped is if they do a Dark Knight Returns type story and wait a few years. They could recast the joker and it wouldnt be a problem then.

[batman_1982]

Yes, it can be topped.


Except in one way, and that's the villain. Mostly because The Joker is my favorite and Heath was so terrific. Whatever villain they use in the third film, he/she won't be as awesome to me as the Joker so I'd say that's the only aspect that truly can't be topped.

My thoughts exactly.

[Sentinel X]

Of course it can be topped, the only thing that can't be topped is a perfect movie...and no such thing exists to be honest.
Even though I may give a film a 10/10 im not really, more of a 9.889/10 :hehe:...if you know what I mean.
There is always room for improvement and I trust Nolan to give us an even better Batman film the third time around!

[ross2287]

I think the average movie-goes (and definitely fans) would be excited about Catwoman.
But she'd have to be damn good.

[66 Face]

Socko's right. It will be hard to top the Joker but we are dealing with Nolan here. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about quality.

When you see every character that Nolan's handled in two movies, you see these rich/ layered characters and thats something that I think he'll continue. To be honest I would love to see him handle a character that really doesn't fit his world and maybe have a different take on a character.

The Penguin could be a likeable character in Gothem instead of some freak. He could be a threat to Batman and Bruce Wayne. The thing that I've always liked about the Penguin is that he's not a character that would be put into Arkham. He could be more like Marvel's Kingpin.

The Riddler would be perfect for Nolan's world. Pretty much a narcissist match in a battle of wits with Batman. Speed and Seven come to mind as being a type of Riddler movie.

Even Mr. Freeze can be brought in as a mad bomber type using liquid nitrogen bombs. His suit would be more about protection than controling body temp. If Nolan wants a tech on tech war... Freeze could be more like Iron Man.

[DieSmiling]

I don't think so. I think a third film could be excellent and a perfect conclusion to the series, but I think it would be almost impossible to top TDK without the Joker. If Heath were still alive I would definitely vote yes.

[Apollo]

I hope so! i'd love to see a third

[Symbiotic]

With the right people, I believe it's possible.

[Lauryn2000]

With the right cast and the right villian....yes.
They are going to have to pick a villian in the DC universe that is as diabolic as the Joker.Which will be hard to fill.......can't recall any villian that has gotten under Batman's 'cape' more than the Joker......:brucebat:

[samsnee]

As others have said, a movie is only as good as it's villain. I'm not saying that whoever the next villain is won't be good, but I'll argue that people came to see the Joker (and not just b/c of Heath's passing) as they did to see Batman. Batman/Joker is the greatest rivalry in comics, more than Superman/Luthor.

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think TDK can be topped. The Joker is the ultimate Batman villain, and new villain(s) won't be as good. Not saying the movie can't be good. A third can be quite good. I just don't think it can be this good.

[DarkKnight245]

TDK can't be topped. But knowing Nolan and Co they will deliver the goods for a 3rd and last time.

[Galvanize]

It would be hard to top it but i think Nolan could do it.

[Lone]

After the outstanding performance by Heath as the Joker, any other villain would seem like a step down...

If there is a part 3, I think the Black Mask would be the way to go...and introduce Dick Grayson. The whole "Batman needs Robin to keep himself from sinking further and further into darkness" type thing. I'm pretty sure part 3 is gonna be a redemption type story so introducing Grayson would work.

This is all IMO of course.

[isaias7]

I BELIEVE IN NOLAN
he gave us Batman Begins
then we believe in him to give us the dark knight and he did
so all ima say is that i believe in him

[Lightning54SC]

the only way the movie can be topped would be to get all teh villains together...

recasted Joker, Two Face, Maroni, Falconi, Scarecrow, Raz Al Guel/Talia either or...

Joker - best villain
2Face - wants revenge on Gordon and batman for rachel
Maroni - blames batman fro his money problems
Falconi - wants his control back
scarecrow - wants his drugs
Raz -??? wants bruces butt
Talia - if used could want revenge for her father

[Rikxiepoo]

This answer is answered simply by asking another question: What type of movie will the third one be?

-If they decide to basically add more action while keeping the drama interesting they might be able to top TDK, as long as they keep everything explained and well organized.

-If they decide to go a different path and turn it into more of a Mystery or Suspense film then they don't have to top TDK since the film will be a different type of movie and thus cant be compared to TDK in those terms. Since they go a different direction the movie is vastly different and can still be a great movie while not trying to do the things TDK did but in a bigger, more impacting manner.

[Crook]

Answering 'NO' to this question is self-defeating and I don't know why anyone would subject themselves to that.

And while TDK may now widely be considered to be the pinnacle of it's genre, that does not mean it's impossible to be dethroned. It was not the PERFECT film, and there won't ever be one. Therefore it's very possible for a film to surpass it by having fewer flaws.

[Superman Prime]

Answering 'NO' to this question is self-defeating and I don't know why anyone would subject themselves to that.

And while TDK may now widely be considered to be the pinnacle of it's genre, that does not mean it's impossible to be dethroned. It was not the PERFECT film, and there won't ever be one. Therefore it's very possible for a film to surpass it by having fewer flaws.

I believe it CAN be topped, but, and this is crucial to my thinking that:

Not by Nolan & Co. The thing, IMO, that held this movie up to greatness was Heath Ledger's portrayal. And he's gone, along with the chance of Nolan creating something better than TDK with BB3.

[The_Guyver]

You can't top The Joker as a villain, and Heath's performance will not be topped in this incarnation of Batman, so they need a completely different type of villain. I believe a silent killer, someone like Bane, who could match brains and brawn with Batman, is the way to go. The Knightfall storyline, without the breaking of Batman's back or Azrael, but instead a severe, humiliating beating, and finally redemption, could make for a compelling story. Not better than TDK, but just as compelling in a completely different manner.

[BatmanReborn]

What I find annoying is that most of you dont realize just how much of ledgers performance is Nolan. Directing isnt just camera setups, its vision, and its, get this, directing the actions of actors. Not to mention, if the character was not written a certain way in the script, Heath would not have what he did to go off of. Was Ledger brilliant, absolutely, but you have to understand that what made him brilliant, the liberties he took were small, the way he consistantly played with his toungue in his mouth. The distinct voice he came up with, his movement. Nolan gave him a character and he took it to the next step.
My bottom line is just this, its all down to the script, if The Joker was written differntly, Ledger would have played him differntly, The Jokers writing in The Dark Knight was absolutely spot on brilliant.

Now could Nolan tackle penguin and catwoman, sure he could, do i think he should, anhh. I do want catwoman, thats without a doubt, its one of very few times that the wb imposed romance has a point. Catwoman could perfectly fit in, and be done true to her comics counterpart without a problem, but is catwoman going to top ledgers joker? alone NO. But she could be a big piece of the puzzle. Lets face it folks, Love is one of the biggest parts of life. We will always relate to love, If batman is supposed to be human, than love is a part of him as well. This is a love story that is on his level. It can be a huge part in making the next bat film top the second.
Not to mention that she can be the redemption angle, instead of Robin, we all know Nolan doesnt want Robin, doesnt seem like anyone in WB does, and I think its retarded because the character could be done very well, but lets just face reality here, we wont be getting dick grayson on film in Nolans trilogy. and if they have a change of heart he couls easily fit into my equation anyway. But I think thru catwoman he could just as easily find redemption. I think that he should completely lose himself in batman this time around, why, because he is cutoff, he doesnt have gordon like he did in the first two, he is being hunted, and he is responding with a much more brutal attitude. Catwoman going from villain at the start of the film, to a hero in the end,(opposite of twoface) could be the catalyst (pun intended) for batman seeing light at the end of the tunnel, a villain converted to a hero.
I think its time to eliminate the mob, the freaks have officially taken over by the end of Dark Knight. Having said that, id throw penguin in a small role as the new face of the mob, the freak who had the insight and intelligence to know that there is a void worth filling ("id like to fill her void" sorry)
Not a big role, but a character worth seeing in a realistic setting.

Riddler is the most talked about villain, and if I had to bet on it, I would say he is who were getting as the next primary. I think that its a mistake to put him in number 3.
Why? well, because he wont top ledgers joker. now, technically, nobody should. joker, regardless of who plays him shouldnt be able to be upstagged, but catwoman and riddler wont be enough, you need someone truly insane, a real threat to Gotham in a differnt way than Joker was. I see Nolans Riddler as a Zodiak Killer type villain, much more serious, and more egotistic like a ted bundy. thats a great villain, and a great challenge to Batman, but audiences wont be enthralled by riddler alone, and what reason does catwoman have for opposing or teaming with him, there is no story dynamics to play with there. I say save riddler for 4, lets see another villain that has never graced the screen yet. Lets see Nolan take on
The Madd Hatter

Hear me out on this, Hatter can be done very well in Nolans real Gotham. Especially if you make Selina Kyle resemble the girls he abducts as his Alice. I would definately make Hatter a child molester. Catwoman who is stealing from Penguin at the start of the story, learns of Hatter, and though we dont really need her origin, we could find out that she had a troubled past where she was abused by men, hence acting out in such seductive ways with Batman. Batman however is the one man who doesnt treat her like what she is used to, he treats her like an equal, and there altercations always are respected, and more of a game to one up one another. Its cat & mouse for them, and she loves it. People would be able to feel there relationship, while they will absolutely despise mad hatter. oh, NO MIND CONTROL HATS! but that doesnt mean he doesnt mentally control anyone, he should be a mental genius, well verse at psychology, more like a jim jones, ill make you want to drink my coolade type (or tea). that edgyness might be just what Nolan needs to make Batman 3 the next step from The Dark Knight. It doesnt have to top TDK, it needs to be a differnt movie with a story just as brilliant as TDK.

So my rundown is
penguin in a small role as the new face of the mob
catwoman steals from the mob and runs into batman
a new villain comes to gotham known as The Madd Hatter, and he is abducting little girls who resemble Alice from Alice in Wonderland without any forced entry, he is getting them to follow him.
you could do some really sick stuff with that, I wish nolan could do an r ratred batman

Riddler should be saved for 4 so that batman and the police could be back on the same page, this way we can really see bats play detective, with gordons help, and intro robin in that one.

[BatmanReborn]

one thing id like to add though, batman does need a physically imposing character to face off with, maybe penguin should be facing off with someone else for the control of gothams underworld, perhaps like blackmask or bane. I know Bane is not a mob type guy, but he has been hired before, and as long as he is the brains and not just some dope with muscles it could be good. maybe in the last scene we could find out that bane was hired by ras to retake gotham.

maybe thats catwomans turning point, middle of the film, batman is chasing catwoman who stole from bane, and she gets away but bats is in battle with bane, bane is about to break batmans back, catwoman cant walk away and whips banes leg making him drop batman, comes back and saves him, allowing batman to take bane down. bane goes to arkham.

then after the credits of the film, we see bane in his cell, similar to bruce in begins, and ras steps out offering him gotham. that would be a kick ass scene

then in 4 while batman is losing his mind trying to track down the riddler, bane is secretly taking over gotham city.

[Beanjuice]

I actually wasnt all what was written you know,ledger came to the role with a certain ideas in mind. he and nolan both collaborated on different things they both wanted to see for Joker

[Conebone69]

YES it deffenetly can be topped. This movie isnt perfect

[earl-donaldson]

This is my first post. I've been reading the site for a few years though.
I think a good villian choice would be the Mad Hatter

now bare with me

He could take control of children because of their lack of myellin sheathing (or however you spell it) which is something that people only develops when the brain is developed completely. and nolan could use some sort of psuedo medical jargon to explain it. This would be done with some monstrous device or the manipulation of wifi (I don't know, I'll leave it to the genius of nolan).

The children could start killing adults children of the corn style.

The movie would have to be R though because Children killing adults and getting beat up by batman or whatever is way to dark for any other rating.

I know it might sound kind of schumancherish for mad hatter to have some crazy device but nolan could do it. Hell, i wouldn't be suprised if he turned out to be the second coming after the dark knight

[Closerframe]

The box-office success can't and won't be topped, the storytelling and characters have a chance to.

[TimidationGame]

At this point in time, the natural reaction would be no, since so much hype is surrounding Ledger and the quest to sink the titanic.

Would we like a one to "top" TDK, deep deep down, many would love for one to.

Is it possible...yes, never tell mankind they can't do something.

Is it probable...ah, here is the crux of the issue. The natural reaction from the studios when they strike gold, is to milk it for all it's worth. Bigger names, more action, more more more, and then duplicate it over and over. Many think, when a director gets it right, they have more freedom, but seldom that is actually true when the studio just sees $$$. If WB/DC does not rush it, if they don't cram stuff down Nolans throat, and if they are willing to have faith that what he can come up with is better than whatever they can....then maybe. Have you ever been in love/pain, and think it could never get any better/worse, only to later find out how naive you were?

[blueskirt]

As long Nolan is involved, I don't worry about the franchize. I too found TDK had place for improvement (the cluttered feel, Christian Bale fighting for screen time...), and with the right actor, Nolan can create another memorable villain. It won't be easy, but if he did it once, he can do it again.

I think what we should worry the most is what will happen beyond BB3. There are so many stories that Nolan could tell, so many interesting villains and characters to adapt, after TDK, I don't think anyone want this franchize to end, at least not before Knightfall. After all this talk of "a trilogy and nothing more", what we should fear the most is, what will happen to Nolan's vision and the franchize when Nolan, and the people that made BB and TDK so great in the first place, will leave the boat. And I doubt we'll be lucky enough to get Favreau to take over once Nolan will leave. :woot:

Regarding Mad Hatter: A villain that made it on many lists of worst Batman villains doesn't have its place in a movie when there are much better villains out there and so little screentime for all of them.

[TimidationGame]

It's not a matter of who is on what list for what and why.

It's a matter of what will work best for the given story that has to be told and fits in to the "Nolanverse".

We are talking about a director that is VERY good at mystery and pushing how storys are told and how to film. </p>

[blueskirt]

We don't need to figure out how to get the men off the boat, he would already have had to figure that out, so how is he going to get them off the boat?

By leaving the boat, I meant what's going to happen to the Batman Begins franchize when Nolan will say "Batman Begins 3 was my last Batman movie. I won't make anymore Batman movies". Who will take over the franchize once Christopher Nolan will leave? Another Schumacher? Will Christian Bale stay if Nolan is no longer involved in the franchize? Will Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman stay too?

[blueskirt]

Sorry, double post.

[TimidationGame]

By leaving the boat, I meant what's going to happen to the Batman Begins franchize when Nolan will say &quot;Batman Begins 3 was my last Batman movie. I won't make anymore Batman movies&quot;. Who will take over the franchize once Christopher Nolan will leave? Another Schumacher? Will Christian Bale stay if Nolan is no longer involved in the franchize? Will Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman stay too?


Ha that's funny, I was not referring to your boat comment.

[Superman Prime]

At this point in time, the natural reaction would be no, since so much hype is surrounding Ledger and the quest to sink the titanic.

Would we like a one to "top" TDK, deep deep down, many would love for one too.

Is it possible...yes, never tell man kind they can't do something.

Is it probable...ah, here is the crux of the issue. The natural reaction from the studios when they strike gold, is to milk it for all it's worth. Bigger names, more action, more more more, and then duplicate it over and over. Many think, when a director gets it right, they have more freedom, but seldom that is actually true when the studio just sees $$$. If WB/DC does not rush it, if they don't cram stuff down Nolans throat, and if they are willing to have faith that what he can come up with is better than whatever they can....then maybe. Have you ever been in love/pain, and think it could never get any better/worse, only to later find out how naive you were?

Great analogy. You have a point.

[Heretic]

Yeah, right about now is when WB suits start "realizing" that they know how to make a more profitable sequel than Nolan would.

[Ziggyman]

...If there is a third film...I sure as hell hope it is at least almost as good as The Dark Knight was...!

[TimidationGame]

I might add, if you really want to figure out what is going on, you have to ask yourself the right questions

[Bads316]

Looking at what the third film will have to include (presuming it follows directly on from TDK with Nolan, Bale etc) we have the rebuilt manor, the new and improved cave, new car!!! Batmans redemption, Gordon coming to terms with being Commish and all that that entails, the truth about Gothams white knight being exposed, Jokers influence on crime in the city as a whole, the remaining fragments of a beaten mob community trying to pull itself back together, Bruce accepting his fate, Alfred becoming more concerned with Bruce losing himself, Reese........

Nolan just needs to follow through with the story that he's already crafted over the two previous films. He needs to stay true to his own vision,and trust HIS instincts when it comes to casting new roles.

[ultimatefan]

That´s the big question out there. It´s gonna be tough as hell, but then again I thought I´d never see a better superhero movie than Spider-Man 2, X2 our Batman Begins...

[Charlatan]

Can never say never... but in this case I can't summon the idea of anything topping TDK!

[Jick09]

can it be topped?
certainly. it just will be extremely hard. but it's not like it's impossible.

[regwec]

At the moment, I would say "no", or at least "not without the return of certain antagonists".

I am desperate to be proven wrong, however.

[Va3H]

Yes, but in a different way

[weezerspider]

I can't believe i'm saying this and i'm anxious to see other hypsters responces but i'm totally fine if we dont get a third movie.

Will i scream and jump for 2 days straight if they announce Nolan & crew are back?Most definitelly.

But really,this movie has satisfied my Batman thirst in a way no movie ever has.
What i'm trying to say is when Spider-Man 2 ended i wanted a sequel,same with X2, and the Bourne trilogy and so on...but when TDK ended i felt such a fullfilment,i felt that the story was so rich and full and the ending so perfect that it can be followed with a third part but it didnt featured a cliffhanger just to milk out money from the audiences with part 3.

I agree. Part of me wants a third film because it's another Batman film. Part of me doesn't because I honestly don't think Nolan's franchise needs another film. I don't want them to ruin it. If Nolan and company all return and put in as much effort as they did in TDK, I'll be happy for a 3rd. I think the real question is, if Heath was still here, would we be having this conversation? Everyone seems to have it stuck in their heads that A. a batman movie can't be the same quality as TDK without Joker and B. if someone does take over the Joker role, it wn't be half as good as Ledger.

[Black Zodak]

If he doesn't make a 3rd film, then the Batman films will end up being seen as follows:

2 Burton
2 Schumacher
2 Nolan

.... Hopefully, that won't be the case. We need a 3rd Nolan film!

[thedrizzle59]

it doesnt need to top TDK, but as long as it's the same or better than begins, everyone will be ok! and it will still make a good some of money!

[earl-donaldson]

I know that the "realism" of nolan's batman has really served as the backbone for the franchise but i also believe that for batman to truly become the legend that he inevitably becomes calls for the fantastic to come into play eventually.

I know that this next idea i'm about to spill onto these pages has been seen as an extremely scary thought for most people on these boards, but what if somehow (now that batman is an accused cop killer) batman starts to be hunted by superman (who sees batman as an amateur rich boy cop killing thrill seeker). Superman doesn't have to be campy and if anyone can take the camp out of superman it's nolan. In fact, i think it's of the utmost importance that Nolan stays true to the level of maturity he has created in his franchise by maintaining the gritty settings and complex themes of the past two films. Along with superman he should undoubtedly include a truly evil nemesis for batman to take upon in the end which superman finds himself helpless against (Hugo Strange maybe).

the ending scene should show Batman's true colors to superman in the end and the importance of Batman's role in gotham.

and for those whom may be worried about the lack of realism my idea may create, i think you have nothing to worry about...

I think that Superman's unrealistic nature could actually add to nolan's universe by bringing the fact that batman would be forced to use all of his resources, wits, and strength to outsmart superman and it could add more inner turmoil to batman by making him question his own abilities and his own importance while trying to prove himself as a useful force for good with a new and more powerful hero in the mix who uses pure inspiration and power to fight crime as opposed to fear.

I don't know what do yall think?

[SuperKoala]

the dark knight was more of a suspense thriller than it was an action movie. I think the only way batman 3 could ever come close to the dark knight is if they had bane in it. because then they could replace some of the suspense with action.

[weezerspider]

the dark knight was more of a suspense thriller than it was an action movie. I think the only way batman 3 could ever come close to the dark knight is if they had bane in it. because then they could replace some of the suspense with action.

Or They could just add more suspense:huh:

I love action, but I don't think Bane is the key to top TDK. They need to do what TDK did, but better. That means have suspense, action, drama, humor and romance all balanced in an interesting plot.

[Naite22]

... If there's been a thread on this before, I apologize, feel free to close it. If not, then I think it's a major relative question/thread!

How WOULD a third movie top "The Dark Knight"????????????????????????
I mean, The Dark Knight was daaamn near perfect! Can it even be done? It's one of the top three best movies I have ever seen! I'd love to see the third movie as much as the next one, but how in the name of all that is holy would they ever top The Dark Knight??? I mean, really!? I doubt that Nolan could even make a third movie that is (at least) JUST as good as TDK... What would you add to the already master-piece of TDK into the third movie, and give it that extra push!?

[Caped Crusader]

To me it doesnt have to. If its as good as Begins then i'll be a very happy man

[Naite22]

^you're right... BUT, for me it would still be a step down, and TDK would stand as the best.

[SheldonLevene]

To me it doesnt have to. If its as good as Begins then i'll be a very happy man

I agree. To me BB is a better Batman movie, while TDK if obviously a superior film. The more I watch Dark Knight though I realize it does have some pretty obvious faults. I think Batman 3 could surpass them both if the focus was shifted more onto Batman himself.

[bunk]

I agree. To me BB is a better Batman movie, while TDK if obviously a superior film. The more I watch Dark Knight though I realize it does have some pretty obvious faults. I think Batman 3 could surpass them both if the focus was shifted more onto Batman himself.

Pretty much.

[Caped Crusader]

Batman 3 could be the best Batman story ever told IMO, while TDK still being the best film

[Laderlappen]

It cant.

[bgates87]

If you're talking about the box office, I don't think it could surpass The Dark Knight at the box office. The Dark Knight was the perfect storm. The timing was perfect, it had great viral marketing, and, whether we like to admit it or not, Heath Ledger's tragic death made the film more than just a film to a lot of people and drew in people who would not normally have gone to see this film. It's going to be hard for another film to top it at the box office.

If you're talking about a story, I definitely think that Nolan could tell a better story. Like others have said, the focus needs to be more on Batman.

[SuperKoala]

the only way it comes close is if it has a villian who is physically imposing on batman, like deathstroke or bane. TDK didn't have many fight scenes, and that's something the 3rd film could improve on

[Motown Marvel]

TDK could easily be surpassed. it needs to start with a tighter script.

[MaceB]

yeah, TDK may be exciting, but there's still lots of room for improvement. I'd like to see the formula completely changed, just like it was between BB and TDK. B3 should be more of a mystery, detective film. The script definitely needs to be tighter, focusing more on the psychological struggles of the characters rather than the physical. I'd also like to see the choreography thought out even more, so that Batman isn't able to hit villains away with a single stroke.
I'd like to see B3 brought down in scale in some ways. The entire city doesn't necessarily have to be in on the struggle in order for it to be grandiose. HEAT is a good example of that.

[MaceB]

double post

[Batman137]

I have been reading a lot of posts lately about how great TDK was. But to be honest, I find Batman Begins a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong, I loved TDK, just something about it, just wasn't quite right. Batman Begins just an overall GREAT story. TDK a good one but just didn't match up to Begins. In order for a third to be better I believe it would have to go back to the batman begins type of story telling. Which you could very much do with Batman most likely going into hiding. Anyone Agree With Me?

[Motown Marvel]

I have been reading a lot of posts lately about how great TDK was. But to be honest, I find Batman Begins a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong, I loved TDK, just something about it, just wasn't quite right. Batman Begins just an overall GREAT story. TDK a good one but just didn't match up to Begins. In order for a third to be better I believe it would have to go back to the batman begins type of story telling. Which you could very much do with Batman most likely going into hiding. Anyone Agree With Me?

when comparing the two, i think the obvious issue is: while the great aspects of TDK clearly out perform the great aspects of BB...BB is a much tighter film as a whole. TDK shot for something much larger in scale than BB, and in the process opened itself up for greater flaws, which i felt were obvious in the film.

[mrbrownie]

when comparing the two, i think the obvious issue is: while the great aspects of TDK clearly out perform the great aspects of BB...BB is a much tighter film as a whole. TDK shot for something much larger in scale than BB, and in the process opened itself up for greater flaws, which i felt were obvious in the film.

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.

Returning to the topic at hand. TDK was NOT perfect. It missed on a lot of Batman focus. I would love the next one to either:

a) Take the atmosphere of BB and combined with TDK, taking TDK's complex story with BB's timing.
b) A totally new type of story, just like TDK changed from BB. Which I think it'll be what the Nolans go for.

But I really want to see more of Batman, and real awesome physical fights. I know we have BB if we want more Batman, but I would love to see less of Bruce and more of Bats in the next one, not in the "losing to the monster inside" kind of stuff, but having to patrol every night, all night long, because crime's on the rise, as freaks too.

:brucebat:

[ChinoXL]

Batman 3 could be the best Batman story ever told IMO, while TDK still being the best film

A Batman story told through a man who is obsessed about finding out who Batman is aka The Riddler ... could be very interesting

It could also be told through Bane who is pretty much a genius and finds out who he is also (I think can't remember)

[Motown Marvel]

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.

Returning to the topic at hand. TDK was NOT perfect. It missed on a lot of Batman focus. I would love the next one to either:

a) Take the atmosphere of BB and combined with TDK, taking TDK's complex story with BB's timing.
b) A totally new type of story, just like TDK changed from BB. Which I think it'll be what the Nolans go for.

But I really want to see more of Batman, and real awesome physical fights. I know we have BB if we want more Batman, but I would love to see less of Bruce and more of Bats in the next one, not in the "losing to the monster inside" kind of stuff, but having to patrol every night, all night long, because crime's on the rise, as freaks too.

:brucebat:
i've mentioned legit flaws in the film since its release. not nitpicks, but legit storytelling flaws. it astounds me when people seem to be in denial about them. its undoubtedly a good movie, but its script was a bit too loose and could have used a few more passes. but i've gone over it a million times before here so im not getting into it again. its just my opinion.

[Asteroid-Man]

The best part about TDK was from mid-point/two-thirds in until the end. All they have to do is just pick it right back up and continue it.

[TheDarkKnight08]

IMO, the only way TDK will be topped is if they make Batman the focal point again, and tone down the villains, ala BB. Bring back some of the familiar themes from BB, like the training he received and the guilt he has for his parents' death, as well as TDK's, like the repurcussions from his decision to take the blame for Harvey's crimes. I personally wouldn't mind them going with a Taxi-Driver approach to Bruce, either. Making it a total character piece would be great to me.:brucebat:

[SheldonLevene]

Did this get merged with the new thread?

[TheDarkKnight08]

^ I believe it did.

[SheldonLevene]

^ I believe it did.

Just checking. Thanks.

[jmc]

Can it be topped? Possible. Is it likely? Odds are slim at best.

[SuperFerret]

Whether or not it can be topped is up to the viewer. I enjoyed TDK, but after a few viewings, it's darkness gets stale, but that's just me.

[SuperKoala]

that man speaks the truth

[mrbrownie]

i've mentioned legit flaws in the film since its release. not nitpicks, but legit storytelling flaws. it astounds me when people seem to be in denial about them. its undoubtedly a good movie, but its script was a bit too loose and could have used a few more passes. but i've gone over it a million times before here so im not getting into it again. its just my opinion.

If is not that bothersome, would you kindly PM one of your posts, I'm interested in your take. I'm not in denial, I just have failed to see real arguments. I know it's not airtight, there's virtually no movie that is.

[CFE]

I think that, with a little creativity, anything's possible on a thematic level. So yes, I think "The Dark Knight" CAN be topped thematically (from a storytelling point...characterizations/set pieces/etc.)

But in terms of the stars being in alignment...I do NOT think the simultaneous critical and box office success of "The Dark Knight" will be topped for quite some time...not even by another Nolan-helmed "Batman" film.

Although I'm sure most people didn't think "The Dark Knight" would amount to any more than "Batman Begins" did and look how that turned out...so never say never I guess lol...

[CuppaJoe07]

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.


I agree. Damn, everybody's complaining about TDK alluvvasudden. Ii'm not saying it's perfect either, but if you want to get into an argument about perfection, I usually look at it like this: if it's the way the filmmaker intended it to be, then in a way it is perfect. Whether or not people like it is the thing.

Ah well, I still love it to death, no complaining about flaws here. Even if they are there, if I don't notice them, then who cares. I'm no film student, I just know what I like and that's good enough for me I guess.

[RockyBatboa]

I think the phantasm can do it! awesome story great n grimy like character what do you guys think?


That "Mask of the Phantasm" was a little better than "Dark Knight" and still remains the best Batman movie.



:brucebat:Dark Knight a close second..



Can another film be better than the Dark Knight? sure, why not? Things can always get better or worse.

[Doc Samson]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

[Motown Marvel]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

seriously? dude, there have been phenomenal batman stories being told since the 30's. stories superior to both BB and TDK combined. and you're telling me that after two movies there's no place to go?

[CaptainClown]

How come there is no maybe? i want to vote maybe

[Bat-Gasm]

I don't know if it can be "topped" but I am sure Batman III could be just as good.

Okay, so probably no Joker, that's cool. I've read so many ideas on how to bring the Joker into the 3rd movie. I personally think that's a bad idea. I think, and it may just be me that any attempted visuals would take away from the story and make me remember that Heath is dead, and the joker is just a fictional character in the Batman universe.

I think Bats should be doing something at Arkham and while walking down the hall passing all the cells the audience hears a very quiet and subtle recording of heath's laugh and that's it. But never an actual visual.

Story wise? I don't know. I always kinda' thought a nolanized loose adaption of TDKR would be pretty sweet.

I wouldn't want him to introduce any characters that couldn't be fully developed in a single movie considering it will probably be his last one.

[SuperFerret]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

TDK is a good movie, but it's not a classic.

[mjbull23]

TDK can be topped, but it's obviously going to be an extremely difficult task to accomplish. I don't think Nolan will approach this final installment with this mindset. Instead I just hope he sets out to make the best movie possible, and a fitting ending to a masterful trilogy.

[jmc]

TDK is a good movie, but it's not a classic.

Not yet, give it 20 years though.

[Batman137]

Heres What I Would Like To See...(I would like to hear some feedback)


~I found that Batman Begins had an incredible first half. And then It lacked at the end. With TDK it was the opposite. The beginning lacked, and the middle to end was strong. In a third, I really want to see the movie never back down. Which is almost impossible, but I think with Nolan and crew, it can be done.
~Second, they really need to get back on with Batman/Bruce Wayne's character. I found that there was very little Batman time. With a movie called "The Dark Knight" you would think they would focus it on him, but they didn't. The major issue to me was the screen time Bruce Wayne got. It seemed like he was in the movie for about 5 minutes. And if he was, he maybe only had a line or two. They really, really need to have a lot/ equal screen time for the two.
~NO CATWOMAN. With the series focusing on escalation, I don't think that Catwoman would be a step up from the Joker. THE RIDDLER would be the best choice. It would take the jokers mystery things to the next level. I think that may be a great task for batman. Solving his riddles, and at the same time hiding. Seems like it would be a great story arc. I am also not a fan of woman villains, but i wont get into that.
I have complete faith in Nolan. Bringing the pace/story/epicness from Batman Begins, to TDK's action/suspense/excitement would make a great third movie.:brucebat::up:

[theShape]

No, TDK cannot be topped, plain and simple. Still, I'd like to see a strong final installment to cap off this badass trilogy. :up:

[Christmas]

I do not think TDK can be topped as a pop culture phenomenon. Certainly Nolan can make a better and more inventive film if he really tried.

[Christmas]

I do not think TDK can be topped as a pop culture phenomenon. Certainly Nolan can make a better and more inventive film if he really tried.

[Doc Samson]

seriously? dude, there have been phenomenal batman stories being told since the 30's. stories superior to both BB and TDK combined. and you're telling me that after two movies there's no place to go?


Yeah, seriously. The question is topped. Comparing the stories of the comics, which have months if not years to develop, and the story of an action film is apples to oranges, at best.Do I think it can be topped as a far as quality, possibly, which I stated in my first post. But quality alone, is not what made TDK special. It was a whole host of things that caused so many people to flock to see it, with mostly a positive experience. Technically, I'm positive Nolan can make something better written, better directed, better acted, but that's all technical things.

He can't replace being the first movie to use IMAX for action scenes and all the hype that drove people to seeing it in IMAX for the first time.

He can't replace the first appearance of the Joker being redefined for a new generation in a way that no one saw coming. He can do it with second-tier characters, but will the impact be the same? This point right here people love to gloss over, as if these other villains can compare, they simply can't. Because of the Joker, the action, the dialogue, and the scenes themselves that make people remember this movie aren't even possible. What character would do a pencil trick, or recite these monologues to victims, or show up at a hospital dressed like a woman. The CHARACTER makes this possible.

Watching Bane throw him around or Catwoman kissing him can be cool no doubt, but honestly, is it going to top what a character like the Joker allows you to do as far as writing and constructing these wild scenes? Would Scarface be nearly as interesting if Tony Montana wasn't such a loose cannon? Would Star Wars be all that exciting if Darth Vader was nowhere in the mix? Is the Matrix all that cool without Agent Smith. As great a character Batman is in his own right, it's the villains he faces that make his stories so compelling, and almost every classic Batman story had the Joker in it in some capacity, big or small.

The Man who Laughs
The Killing Joke
The Dark Knight Returns
The Long Halloween
Arkham Asylum
Hush
5 way revenge
A death in the family
No man's land
Infinite crisis
Knightfall

And in Year One, he still pops up as the setup for the next adventure. Hell, he's even in The Mask of the Phantasm & Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, the two high marks for both series by most fan's estimation. There's a reason why, because the character itself is so off the wall and over the top it allows for great storytelling. You can't replace that. When you add to that having one of the more brilliant actors of this time undertaking such a huge character with fearlessness, and unfortuantely passing away, causing even more interest, it creates a pretty tough task if we're talking about not just matching but topping TDK.

He can't replace having Two-Face in the same movie with an equally great performance, unquestionably, two of the most recognizable villains not only in Batman lore, but comics in general. He can't replace the initial fever pitch the viral marketing sparked, any marketing this time will not have the same impact, because it won't be new. He can't replace alot of things, these are only a few that come to mind. The only thing to really do is try to go bigger, which almost all 3rd films in a trilogy do, which explains why almost all of them fail to achieve that goal. I'm positive a third can be great, on the level of BB, which in itself was great too. But the question isn't can it be great, it's can it be great & top TDK? And IMHO, no, it can't. What we will get, eventually, is just another case of diminishing returns...

[Christmas]

"He can't replace the first appearance of the Joker being redefined for a new generation in a way that no one saw coming."-Doc Samson

Good observation. Nolan can write an even more ingenious script for a third and direct it with more artistry and have it shot more beautifully, but the whole TDK experience from the hype to the oscar's won't be topped.

[Two-Face]

"In Nolan I trust..."

[Batman137]

third movie needs have have more scenes with a score too. their were too many scenes in TDK that abandoned a score in a scene that needed it. I also think if Batman 3 has GREAT viral marketing like TDK,theres no doubt that it will be better. TDK's marketing was almost better than the movie haha

[Motown Marvel]

Yeah, seriously. The question is topped. Comparing the stories of the comics, which have months if not years to develop, and the story of an action film is apples to oranges, at best.Do I think it can be topped as a far as quality, possibly, which I stated in my first post. But quality alone, is not what made TDK special. It was a whole host of things that caused so many people to flock to see it, with mostly a positive experience. Technically, I'm positive Nolan can make something better written, better directed, better acted, but that's all technical things.

He can't replace being the first movie to use IMAX for action scenes and all the hype that drove people to seeing it in IMAX for the first time.

He can't replace the first appearance of the Joker being redefined for a new generation in a way that no one saw coming. He can do it with second-tier characters, but will the impact be the same? This point right here people love to gloss over, as if these other villains can compare, they simply can't. Because of the Joker, the action, the dialogue, and the scenes themselves that make people remember this movie aren't even possible. What character would do a pencil trick, or recite these monologues to victims, or show up at a hospital dressed like a woman. The CHARACTER makes this possible.

Watching Bane throw him around or Catwoman kissing him can be cool no doubt, but honestly, is it going to top what a character like the Joker allows you to do as far as writing and constructing these wild scenes? Would Scarface be nearly as interesting if Tony Montana wasn't such a loose cannon? Would Star Wars be all that exciting if Darth Vader was nowhere in the mix? Is the Matrix all that cool without Agent Smith. As great a character Batman is in his own right, it's the villains he faces that make his stories so compelling, and almost every classic Batman story had the Joker in it in some capacity, big or small.

The Man who Laughs
The Killing Joke
The Dark Knight Returns
The Long Halloween
Arkham Asylum
Hush
5 way revenge
A death in the family
No man's land
Infinite crisis
Knightfall

And in Year One, he still pops up as the setup for the next adventure. Hell, he's even in The Mask of the Phantasm & Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, the two high marks for both series by most fan's estimation. There's a reason why, because the character itself is so off the wall and over the top it allows for great storytelling. You can't replace that. When you add to that having one of the more brilliant actors of this time undertaking such a huge character with fearlessness, and unfortuantely passing away, causing even more interest, it creates a pretty tough task if we're talking about not just matching but topping TDK.

He can't replace having Two-Face in the same movie with an equally great performance, unquestionably, two of the most recognizable villains not only in Batman lore, but comics in general. He can't replace the initial fever pitch the viral marketing sparked, any marketing this time will not have the same impact, because it won't be new. He can't replace alot of things, these are only a few that come to mind. The only thing to really do is try to go bigger, which almost all 3rd films in a trilogy do, which explains why almost all of them fail to achieve that goal. I'm positive a third can be great, on the level of BB, which in itself was great too. But the question isn't can it be great, it's can it be great & top TDK? And IMHO, no, it can't. What we will get, eventually, is just another case of diminishing returns...

it can be topped.

[gillberg2k1]

There's a few directions I think this film needs to take to really "top" the last film.

First of all, I think transitioning back into the traditional Batman elements is a necessity. If there's one thing we can use to figure out where the series needs to go, its history, and the elements that the series has gotten right thus far. We've seen an early Batman, learning to use his rage and that darkness inside to hopefully inspire Gotham into fixing itself, though this seems to backfire. In The Dark Knight, we find Bruce discovering his responsibility as Batman and what that means to the city. He can't always be a hero, and his mission must be his and his alone. At the end of The Dark Knight, we're left with a Batman that has matured a bit, but has also come face to face with the grim reality of his situation, and the notion that he, much like Harvey Dent, cannot escape his fate/destiny, as he has now "changed things...forever," and must take on the dual role as hero and "villain" while potentially watching his city destroy itself, much as The Joker has alluded to.

The next film also needs to be the film that finally takes Batman out of his seemingly darkest moments, most likely explored in the first half of the film as he is portrayed as the villain to Gotham, and allows him to redeem himself in the eyes of both the city of Gotham and himself. Internally, I think this is film to really explore the conflict of the three potential identities of Bruce Wayne. If there's ever a time to really explore Bruce "losing himself in his monster," this is the film to do it in. The debate has gone on for years over who is the real person and who is the mask: Batman, Bruce Wayne, or both. We've seen it hinted at in a very subtle way in the two previous installments, but I think it's time we fleshed out Nolan's ideas of just who the man inside really is, and his acceptance of that and his place in Gotham. Catwoman could potentially be used to mirror Bruce's temptation, his monster, who walks the line between hero and extreme vigilante. As Gotham falls further into the abyss, a stronger man, the hero, rises out of it's ashes, and we finally have the extreme dynamic that exists between this hero and his seemingly ill-fated kingdom he's so determined to protect.

As that character develops and hopefully allows Bruce to take center stage once again, Wayne Manor and the return of the cave should also develop and hopefully be finished by the time the film concludes, leaving us with the traditional Batman elements we've all fallen in love with over the years.

We also need to see those iconic shots we've all been waiting to see on film. It'd be great to finally see Bruce at his parents tombstone in the pouring rain, confronting his own demons and the struggle that rages on inside of himself and the city he's desperately looking to protect. It'd also be great to see Batman watching, and waiting, crouched and blended into a line of Gargoyles on a rooftop on a stormy night, watching, waiting.

I think what you'll end up with is something a bit more in line with the "definitive" Batman so many are still looking for. As great as TDK was, and as happy as I would be if it were the last in Nolan's Bat films, I think there's still those loose ends to tie up to truly leave the series with the fully developed, fully fleshed out Batman.

I think if you can combine those elements with a story as strong as TDKs, you'll have a very close to definitive Batman film, that's about Batman himself, and maybe even less about the villains, you could have a really strong film that bookends the series and leaves the audience satisfied, should Nolan decide to pack it up after number three.

[Attikus]

New Batmobile. Hero on the run from the law. The Rise of freaks running the underworld. hints of a Joker perhaps working with a guy who asks too many questions... and sweet redemption for everyone's favorite Crusader. THE DARK CRUSADER can top THE DARK KNIGHT... as long as the Nolans are back... and they will be. So our eyeballs will get reamed when the third installment is released!

[Attikus]

Well said GILBERG2K1!

I agree. We watched Bruce Wayne get lost and the Batman persona take over... now it's time for the return of Bruce Wayne... the flesh and blood person. Perhaps, even a semblance of a normal life... a wife and maybe the adoption of a small child who likes the circus will help humanize him... he will sill be Batman but instead of being an obsessive Knight, he will lead a more balanced life... kinda like a cop... but with cooler toys to catch the bad guys with... face it, we love Batman bcs we love Bruce Wayne. Bruce is human... Bruce is us.

[Two-Face]

That sorta reminds of Zorro, a masked hero with a wife and a kid.....

[TheScarecrow]

Of course it can be topped. TDK was far more than Ledger as The Joker and the movie would not have been half as good had it not been for the Harvey Dent arc. People focus way too much on The Joker.

[The Joker]

Of course it can be topped. TDK was far more than Ledger as The Joker and the movie would not have been half as good had it not been for the Harvey Dent arc. People focus way too much on The Joker.

Now now, don't be bitter just because Scarecrow got the shaft in these movies :oldrazz:

People focus on the Joker because he was the best thing in TDK for most people. That doesn't take away from the greatness of Harvey Dent or any of the other characters. It's just that Joker is most people's fav.

He was that good.

[El Payaso]

Of course it can be topped. TDK was far more than Ledger as The Joker and the movie would not have been half as good had it not been for the Harvey Dent arc. People focus way too much on The Joker.

I agree on that: for me the Harvey Dent story was the best of the movie.

Joker of course was the most enjoyable by most people; he's the partyman, the one-man show. But Eckhardt, his Harvey Dent and his arc was simply the best in terms of development. Sometimes in showbusiness is like that: the thing that has mopst of the work and talent take a seat back so the "star" can shine even more.

[namtaB]

Sure. Anything can be topped. The real question is whether the Joker can be topped. And to that my answer is no. I don't read the comics, but I have never known a Batman villain to be more engaging than the Joker. He's the complete package of everything a powerful villain should be. I don't think that can be repeated again.

[Steyin]

In terms of praise, probably not. In terms of story and action, yes. As huge as a Batman fan as I am, I felt TDK was a bit of a let down. Not saying it wasn't great, but something was missing, and I can only hope that the next will finally give me the Batman film I've been waiting for.

[jmc]

Perhaps what also may hold B3 back is it's rating, Nolan went just about as far as you can go with the rating classification TDK got, perhaps for a third film to go that one step further it needs that higher rating, more violence, even sex scenes with Bruce and Selina, after all TDK was a more adult targeted film, perhaps it's time to stop pussy footing around worrying about selling toys and take the series to that next step.

[TheVileOne]

There's no earthly way really.

The hype and reception for The Dark Knight was so amazingly huge and positive there is no way another movie will come close for a long time.

In many ways it feels like the popularity of the franchise has peaked with the second film, as many movie franchises do.

I mean think about it, the chances of another Batman movie doing nearly as well as TDK are very slim.

With the Bourne movies, Bourne Supremacy built off of Identity. But then it got even bigger for a third movie. Same with LOTR.

[TheScarecrow]

Most thought Begins couldn't be topped either.

You avoid comparisons to The Joker by not having a main villain like The Joker.

Nolan has recognised how hard it is to make a great third movie, and has said many times he'd never do it unless he was sure he could do something new and better: do you really think he'd have signed on if he couldn't top it? TDK as a movie has lots of flaws. It has a great story with Harvey Dent and a great character in The Joker - but there are other great stories and other great characters in Batman lore.

[namtaB]

Way to contradict yourself there, bud. :up:

He can be topped, and I'm thinking that what Nolan has in store for this next movie will AT LEAST match The Joker, whether he's matched by one villain or a pair of them, we won't know until we see the next movie.

Glad someone is ardently reading my posts. I guess since I rapidly glance over posts here I thought others do the same for mine. If you're that much of a fan, send me a PM and I'll mail you an autographed pic.

[batman11]

Glad someone is ardently reading my posts. I guess since I rapidly glance over posts here I thought others do the same for mine. If you're that much of a fan, send me a PM and I'll mail you an autographed pic.

Why make a post if you only expect it to be "glanced over"? Would you wanna be a hooker roaming the streets who is always "glanced over" by all the horny guys, or taken seriously for some real, money-making business? :woot:

Alright..that was a weird analogy, even for me. :dry:

[namtaB]

Why make a post if you only expect it to be "glanced over"? Would you wanna be a hooker roaming the streets who is always "glanced over" by all the horny guys, or taken seriously for some real, money-making business? :woot:

Alright..that was a weird analogy, even for me. :dry:

To quote Max Shreck, "I got better fish to fry." I'm here to have fun. I read and post out of enjoyment. And for me at least, enjoyment entails a relaxed attitude which occasionally spills into my posts. I'm not here to take anything or be taken seriously. There are plenty of other posters here who have this kind of attitude. So when people play 7th grade english teacher or break down a post line by line, its comical to me.

[RockyBatboa]

Glad someone is ardently reading my posts. I guess since I rapidly glance over posts here I thought others do the same for mine. If you're that much of a fan, send me a PM and I'll mail you an autographed pic.


LOL!


EPIC Win!:word:

[RockyBatboa]

Why make a post if you only expect it to be "glanced over"? Would you wanna be a hooker roaming the streets who is always "glanced over" by all the horny guys, or taken seriously for some real, money-making business? :woot:

Alright..that was a weird analogy, even for me. :dry:


:wow:

So, what exactly is your real life knowledge/experience with hookers?


And dont be shintzy on the details either.:grin:

[RockyBatboa]

To quote Max Shreck, "I got better fish to fry." I'm here to have fun. I read and post out of enjoyment. And for me at least, enjoyment entails a relaxed attitude which occasionally spills into my posts. I'm not here to take anything or be taken seriously. There are plenty of other posters here who have this kind of attitude. So when people play 7th grade english teacher or break down a post line by line, its comical to me.


Let me assure you, you are not the only one.

We may not have the same personality, but we definitely share the same attitude.

I come here to offer opinions, make a few jokes, and share my interest in Batman. Too many posters come here to play "Mr. Studious Batman Fan" with the constant quote breakdowns and lessons. Then when you give your opinion, if it differes with them, they patronize you and tell you how crazy you are. Then, when you beat them at they own game, they cry "Foul Play" or "Troll", and then whine to a mod, and get you banned for a day.


Damn, i just reminded myself of bad memories...:csad:


But rest assured, namtaB, i do understand, and am with ya on this.



You have a fan.:yay:



And back to your original post which sadly was sorely overlooked, i have to say that i think you gave the most insigtful opinion on this thread.

The DK, as a film in entirety, was somewhat overestimated in my opinion. It can be topped, improved, ect.

But the Joker-Ledger...? No way. He was PERFECT. Well-deserved Oscar on the way, one of the most memorable screeen performances ever, worked perfectly in the film, an excellent portrayal of a classic villian....much more difficult to top Ledger's Joker than the film itself.

[El Payaso]

Glad someone is ardently reading my posts. I guess since I rapidly glance over posts here I thought others do the same for mine. If you're that much of a fan, send me a PM and I'll mail you an autographed pic.

Jokes aside, if "anything can be topped" as you said yourself, then in your opinion Joker can be topped too.

[RockyBatboa]

You know, this is exactly the type of post namtaB was just discrediting.


Jeez, he gave a rhetorical statement, and then gave his opinion. No need to be so scientific bout it.

[RockyBatboa]

So I'm anal because I notice you contradicted yourself, and disagreed with what you said? God forbid people having fun READ and disagree. :whatever:


How bout just letting it GO?

You insulted him.
He burned you back.

Now, you want to turn it into a wrestling mach....:whatever:

[El Payaso]

Just as he's free to be contradictory out of fun, any other poster is free to be as scientific as he wants.

[RockyBatboa]

Right.

And just as you DONT want to be bashed for being scientific, he DOESNT want to be mocked for beling unscientifically common (if a bit contradictory)

I think it's clear he was making a blanket statement that "anything can be topped"...

then when on to say Not so for Ledger's Joker b/c it was SO good (more his opinion, than an absolute.)

I'm sure if you asked him, he would say that, yes, TECHNICALLY, Ledger's Joker could potentially be topped, just like anything.

[Bim]

It possibly couldn't be topped performance wise but it surely can be topped story wise, but in saying that we will all just have to wait and see what the future holds for Nolan's vision of Batman in film.
Ur my hero! :woot:

[Naite22]

Can it be topped???....Yes, there's a microscopic chance, but I dont think so... but it would sure be gold!

[griffolyon12]

For everything that comes along, no matter what or who it is, there will always be someone or something better.

Very well put.

Even though TDK was almost as perfect as a film can get, this does not necessarily mean that there will never be another film again to be that perfect, because I can name at least 20 other films that are just as perfect as TDK in my books, BB being one of them.

Yes, cases of lightning striking three times are almost unheard of, but it can happen; just look at the Lord of the Rings, the original Star Wars trilogy, or the original three Indy films.

While the 3rd film may not have the Joker or Two-Face, this does not mean that it can not be just as good, if not better than TDK, because I remember after coming out of BB I thought that it was about as perfect as a comic book film would ever be, then TDK came along. That could happen again. Even though I am a tad skeptical, I believe that Nolan and Co. have something truly special planned. Really though, what I do not want to see in the next film is a retread of either BB or TDK. With the 3rd film I want something completely different in style than either of the first two films, simply because first I think TDK was the darkest point for Batman, and second because I think that with the 3rd one possibly being Nolan's last Bat-film there needs to be a sense of closure to his tenure at the helm of the franchise.

[jmc]

Yes, cases of lightning striking three times are almost unheard of, but it can happen; just look at the Lord of the Rings, the original Star Wars trilogy, or the original three Indy films.



Those last two are hardly prime examples of series were lightning struck three times.

[dude love]

Yes it can. Even Ledger's Joker can be topped if one keeps an open mind.

[The Joker]

Depends on how high or low your standards are.

[Doctor Jones]

I don't think we should have this mindset going in. As long as it's a strong and damn good film then I'm fine with it. After I see it I'll make my judgement, but I'll never think "will it be better than TDK?" Because if you think that, you'll be more disapointed. I can settle for a great film and not worry about it topping the other.

It's like pulling out TDKR, TLH, and Year One out in front of you. All of them are great in their own ways.

[The Guard]

You know, I'm more interested in seeing it effectively "concluded" than "topped". TDK was so good at doing what it did because it effectively "continued" what BATMAN BEGINS set up. I do think the emotional aspects from Bruce's end of things can be topped, though. Give him some real conflict to work with. I also think the "love interest" element can be topped, as can the exploration of his friendship/partnership with Gordon and his relationship with Alfred. So yes, there are elements the third Batman film can improve on from the prior two films.

[RockyBatboa]

I didn't find the need to be contradictory. My opinion differed from his, and I stated what mine was. All of a sudden it's become a crime to point out people's contradictory statements? It's hardly a wrestling match. I didn't "burn" him, nor did he burn me- I pointed out that he said one thing, then the complete opposite, then gave my opinion against his opinion.

Just because he's, "here for fun," doesn't mean the rest of us signed some contracts that tell us how to deal with what he says. In my opinion, YOU seem to be the one stirring stuff up, hoping for this "wrestling match."






:whatever:

What exactly is the statement in bold really? Truthfully?

Is it not anything more than your attempt to instigate me as an instigator?

Please......Stop being childish. And quit twisting people's words...

It's VERY annoying.

[RockyBatboa]

Back to B3.


It surely has the potential to top the dark knight.

Some of us think it wont, cause we're still struck by how good the Dark Knight was, but in a few years, when B3 is released, that feeling will have worn out a tad.

Just remember, people said BB was the best batman film, and couldnt be topped.
Then when DK came out, those same pople said DK was MUCH better than BB.....

When put into context, anything can be topped. And if B3 is considered an excellent movie, there will be at least a few people who enjoy it more than DK

[RockyBatboa]

....of course if B3 is considered to be a horrible movie.....

Nolan may possibly lose all the good graces he had accumulated to that point, from BB and DK.

(scary thought)

[The Guard]

We can say things like "He Raimi'd it".

[GlasgowBat]

at least the more "snobbish" members of the film community would be happy, seeing as nolan would be free to go back to making "proper" films............

[Kud-Dukan]

Can it be topped? Yes.

Will it be topped? Maybe.

But there is going to be a lot of disappointed people when the next Batman movie comes out. Not because the movie will suck, but because expectations are going to be completely unrealistic.

[Cunning Stunts]

:whatever:

What exactly is the statement in bold really? Truthfully?

Is it not anything more than your attempt to instigate me as an instigator?

Please......Stop being childish. And quit twisting people's words...

It's VERY annoying.

... Coming from you- of all people- this is hilarious. I didn't twist anyone's words. I didn't say you said one thing that you didn't. I accused you of attempting to stir stuff up, because that's how it felt given what you actually said.

Nice try. :up:

[TheScarecrow]

But there is going to be a lot of disappointed people when the next Batman movie comes out. Not because the movie will suck, but because expectations are going to be completely unrealistic.

The expectations were completely unrealistic with TDK as well, and look how well that was received.

I know what majority of the people here are thinking and I know why they think BB3 won't top TDK. The same was said with BB and the reason was people were thinking TDK would be an action/adventure movie made in the same mould as Begins and it was just completely wrong.

The same is being done here. People are picturing BB3 as a crime drama and are substituting villains in The Joker's place and thinking it won't be as good. BB3 will not be a crime drama. I'm expecting something more traditional Nolan, perhaps with multiple storylines, a very inventive structure and probably be more of a mystery/thriller.

It won't be anything like TDK and since the audience will go in expecting something like that, their expectations won't matter. BB3 will be not be structured like Begins or TDK, it will not look like Begins or TDK, it will not have a storyline like Begins or TDK, it will not belong in the same genre as Begins or TDK and it will not have the same theme as Begins or TDK - so where on earth are people going to form accurate expectations on what it will be like from?

[Johnny Drama]

This movie is epic on all levels. Is it possible for the next film to meet or top this one? No Joker/Maybe a new actor playing the joker. Can any other villain carry a movie the way the Joker did this one?


The Dark Knight gave us a villain we loved. The next one absolutley has to deliver us a villain we hate, otherwise they will fail just like with the original series where very villain was a joker clone (The Riddler, Two-Face, hell even Ah-nulds Mr. Freeze).

We need a villain who envokes terror, one who we are afraid of and maybe Batman is a little afraid of.
I'm talkin Darth Vader status....

[The Guard]

The Scar-

Oh, no they've already used him...

[TheScarecrow]

We need a villain who envokes terror, one who we are afraid of and maybe Batman is a little afraid of.
I'm talkin Darth Vader status....

Black Mask.

Why? He's unknown to the general public, so Nolan can establish him entirely by himself. Also, he has strong storyline ties to another suspected character (Catwoman). He's definetly someone who can evoke terror because Black Mask really enjoys causing long, slow, painful deaths to his victims.

[TheScarecrow]

We need a villain who envokes terror, one who we are afraid of and maybe Batman is a little afraid of.
I'm talkin Darth Vader status....

Black Mask.

Why? He's unknown to the general public, so Nolan can establish him entirely by himself. Also, he has strong storyline ties to another suspected character (Catwoman). He's definetly someone who can evoke terror because Black Mask really enjoys causing long, slow, painful deaths to his victims.

[8wid]

The only way I an think of a bigger explosion than a hospital would be to have a dirty bomb go off.

[CaptainClown]

Hell make it like War Games or whichever comic it was when an earthquake hits.

[regwec]

No Man's Land?

I would quite like a movie like that, but I think an earthquake would seem a bit of a contrivance.

[CaptainClown]

That was it, No Man's Land.

I do think if that is the focus of the movie though basically it might be interesting, Gotham when it basically does become a No Man's Land. I think the series is comic book enough that people would just roll with it.

[Naite22]

However it might go, I dont think the third chapter will be as dark as TDK was... it seems to follow the "trilogy-structure" of the original star wars films... I LOVE the realistic style they went for in TDK and hope to God that they keep that in the mix.

[Dog Logan]

I think it's totally feasible for B3 to be able to top TDK but it's all a matter of how much work is put into the film (i.e if as much work on the story is done as it was for TDK). It's kind of a foolish thing to say when someone says TDK can never be topped because it can be, it'll just take a really well done movie to knock it off it's throne.

[ab38416]

You know, I'm more interested in seeing it effectively "concluded" than "topped". TDK was so good at doing what it did because it effectively "continued" what BATMAN BEGINS set up. I do think the emotional aspects from Bruce's end of things can be topped, though. Give him some real conflict to work with. I also think the "love interest" element can be topped, as can the exploration of his friendship/partnership with Gordon and his relationship with Alfred. So yes, there are elements the third Batman film can improve on from the prior two films.


Well said. I completely agree.

[zeptron]

As long as it's good as TDK or even BB I'll be happy.

[Rodrigo90]

Their are different aspects on how TDK can be topped. In general,it could possibly top it. Overall it boils down to aspects of the entire movie.

[ronny]

It can be topped...in a way.
In terms of action - no.
But in terms of suspense and character development - sure.
Just get a good cast, a good script and a good director and I reckon we can have another masterpiece on our hands. Bet on it.

[namtaB]

I think it can be topped both in action and story. I didn't find TDK the be all and end all of either action or story for the Nolan series.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Sure it can be topped.

[KalMart]

Does it have to be?

[Ace of Knaves]

It can be topped...in a way.
In terms of action - no.
But in terms of suspense and character development - sure.
Just get a good cast, a good script and a good director and I reckon we can have another masterpiece on our hands. Bet on it.

Wha...?

So you think the action aspects of TDK were better than the suspense and character moments?

Wha...?

The action MUST be topped for the third IMO.

Apart from the Hong Kong scene and the chase in the middle of the film the action was mediocre.

They need to make the fight scenes look REAL. Not staged and fake with people reacting BEFORE getting hit and standing around WAITING for Batman to hit them.

And make Batman look like a world class martial artist.

He needs a villain he can go one on one against and have a visually amazing fight scene with. Someone like Bane or Deathstroke.

[ronny]

Wha...?

So you think the action aspects of TDK were better than the suspense and character moments?

Wha...?


Certainly not. But The Joker was a character who caused so much chaos that there was a lot of action. The Riddler is more cerebral and not as murderous as Joker. So it has to a different kind of film.
And things like suspense and depth do not outstay their welcome. Whereas there are only a certain ammount of shoot-outs and car-chases you can have before an audience grows bored.
In terms of basic storytelling, The Dark Knight was almost peerless. But it can be topped.
First, it needs a great viral campaign.
I'd argue that something to promote Batman 3 should actually start now. Build it up to fever pitch, to crazy levels of anticipation.

[Ace of Knaves]

I was thinking a good viral campaign, if they use Riddler, would be for us to do a online clue hunt to figure out who they have cast or something.

Like never officially announce who is cast as Riddler, let us figure it out with the virals. That would take viral campaigns to a whole new level, and fits perfectly with Riddler.

It would get millions of people playing, even just regular movie fans not Bat fans. The Hype and anticipation it would build would be utterly insane.

[returntovoid]

I think TDK can be topped with the third film, under the right direction. TDK was a great film but it's not like it was 100% flawless.

There are some things that can be improved:

Getting the focus back on Batman
Bring back Batman's ninja training/hiding in the shadows from BB.
Bring back the classic elements that make Batman unique, like Wayne Manor, the Batcave, the bats, etc.
Exploring Batman's detective side
Improving the fight scenes
Much more cerebral villain that can challenge Batman's intellect (The Riddler)
Second villain that can physically challenge Batman (Deathstroke or Deadshot)

[Nightwing]

I think TDK can be topped with the third film, under the right direction. TDK was a great film but it's not like it was 100% flawless.

There are some things that can be improved:

Getting the focus back on Batman
Bring back Batman's ninja training/hiding in the shadows from BB.
Exploring Batman's detective side
Improving the fight scenes
Much more cerebral villain that can challenge Batman's intellect (The Riddler)
Second villain that can physically challenge Batman (Deathstroke or Deadshot)
Post of the week.

[aerosmith760]

Well, it depends, on three things:

1-Nolan will direct it
2-He will put the same or more effort he put to TDK and/or BB
3-He will use good, deep, and at the same time realistic new villains

agreed 100 percent

[aerosmith760]

if they have riddler i believe this will turn out to be godly and why not throw in black mask it may make it more intresting but honestly all i want is

riddler and penguin because i like the debates especially when the dark knight came out everyone was talking about heath and jack

either penguin or catwoman those ones will be good

but honestly i think they might top it nolan can deliver it so wow i cant wait

[RachelDawes]

I think TDK can be topped with the third film, under the right direction. TDK was a great film but it's not like it was 100% flawless.

There are some things that can be improved:

Getting the focus back on Batman
Bring back Batman's ninja training/hiding in the shadows from BB.
Exploring Batman's detective side
Improving the fight scenes
Much more cerebral villain that can challenge Batman's intellect (The Riddler)
Second villain that can physically challenge Batman (Deathstroke or Deadshot)

Add to this: bring back the classic elements that make Batman unique, like Wayne Manor, the Batcave, the bats, etc.

[itsthebatman]

However it might go, I dont think the third chapter will be as dark as TDK was... it seems to follow the "trilogy-structure" of the original star wars films... I LOVE the realistic style they went for in TDK and hope to God that they keep that in the mix.
No Ewoks.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Post of the week.Agreed.

[Rodrigo90]

One aspect on how it can top BB and TDK...

ZOOM OUT FROM FIGHT SCENES AND STOP CUTTING THE GODDAMN CAMERA AT EVERY GODDAMN SECOND. I GOT GODDAMN MOTION SICKNESS.

GODDAMN IS VERY ANNOYING ISNT IT? JUST READ A.S-B.A.R.T.B.W. AND YOULL GET USED TO IT. THE GODDAMN BATMAN,LOL.

[Timstuff]

Personally, I'd like to see the ending of Batman 3 borrow a bit from Hush in regards to Bruce and Selina's relationship. Unlike Rachel in BB, who basically said "when you're ready to stop being Batman, give me a call," Selina would be perfectly OK with Bruce being Batman, but more or less tells him "if you're ready to stop being paranoid and antisocial, I'll be around." It'd be an open ending which the audience could interpret either way, and it'd also give them something to work with if they decide to make more Batman movies in the future (which they undoubtedly will).

[firstclassclown]

If you get two SOLID award winning actors/actresses in there, it's all in IMAX and, the return of the Joker. Yes, I could see it being the #1 movie of all time. If you get someone like Sean Penn to take over Joker, people will flock to see the performance. And I say throw in Marion Coltier as Catwoman

[Mr. Earle]

Wha...?

So you think the action aspects of TDK were better than the suspense and character moments?

Wha...?

The action MUST be topped for the third IMO.

Apart from the Hong Kong scene and the chase in the middle of the film the action was mediocre.

They need to make the fight scenes look REAL. Not staged and fake with people reacting BEFORE getting hit and standing around WAITING for Batman to hit them.

And make Batman look like a world class martial artist.

He needs a villain he can go one on one against and have a visually amazing fight scene with. Someone like Bane or Deathstroke.I think TDK can be topped with the third film, under the right direction. TDK was a great film but it's not like it was 100% flawless.

There are some things that can be improved:

Getting the focus back on Batman
Bring back Batman's ninja training/hiding in the shadows from BB.
Bring back the classic elements that make Batman unique, like Wayne Manor, the Batcave, the bats, etc.
Exploring Batman's detective side
Improving the fight scenes
Much more cerebral villain that can challenge Batman's intellect (The Riddler)
Second villain that can physically challenge Batman (Deathstroke or Deadshot)
Add to this: bring back the classic elements that make Batman unique, like Wayne Manor, the Batcave, the bats, etc.Great posts!

[Jake Diamond]

The so-called 'curse' of the threequels doesn't always apply. Sure, it applied to Batman Forever...

...but look at Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Back to the Future 3, Mission: Impossible 3, Die Hard With A Vengeance, Goldfinger, The Bourne Ultimatum, Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Army of Darkness and, to a lesser extent, Revenge of the Sith.

The Dark Knight is a wonderful film, I don't think anybody's arguing that it's not. It's a sprawling superhero crime epic. All Nolan has to do is stick to his strengths, improve on his weaknesses, listen to fan reaction, and he should be fine:

STRENGTHS:
- The cast. Even in secondary roles, Nolan brings out the goods. Eric Roberts? Genius.
- The cinematography. Beautiful.
- The score. Equally beautiful.
- The story. It borrows elements from The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween and Dark Victory to tell a dark story about escalation in Gotham City. It's not "supervillain builds giant freeze ray to destroy Gotham", it's visceral and real. Which is great.
- The dark atmosphere. It's very Batman. While I personally prefer the Burton-esque Gotham, I like Nolan's version very much.

WEAKNESSES:
- A decent female lead. Katie Holmes wasn't very good and Maggie Gyllenhaal didn't get much of a chance.
- Better filmed fight sequences. The chase through Gotham was perfect, but most of the fight scenes don't excite because of how they're filmed.
- Length. Two hours and thirty-two minutes was a bit much. Trim it down a bit, we don't want a LOTR-length opus.

FANS:
- Wayne Manor, and the Batcave. Bring them back!
- Keep the focus on Batman.
- I, personally, want the relationship with Alfred and Gordon to be explored a little more.

He will, of course, be betrayed by the critical reaction to Heath Ledger's Joker. Any villain he selects for Batman 3 will be compared (almost definitely unfavourably) to The Joker. His temptation will thus be to do something different, unexpected, and that will throw people off. Doesn't mean it won't be any good.

Hopefully, he won't give into temptation, do a Spiderman 3 and just throw everything in there. The last thing we want is an overcrowded film!!

But, most importantly, he must do what many threequels don't... and deliver something new. If it was just a rehash of The Dark Knight, well, it would still make millions, but we'd feel cheated. I have no doubt Nolan can live up to Batman 3. None at all.

Note use of "live up to". Not "top". Does Batman 3 really need to be better than The Dark Knight? Of course not.

And that's my rant.

[Happy Jack]

Note use of "live up to". Not "top". Does Batman 3 really need to be better than The Dark Knight? Of course not.

Agreed. Nolan shouldn't go into 3 with the idea of making it bigger and better than TDK, trying to top it in terms of spectacle and whatnot. He should take a different route and try to make a film that is unique unto itself while still being very much a sequel. Not something that is packed with even more explosions and action scenes, but a truly great movie that can compete with TDK's level of story telling and characters.

[mothy]

Agreed. Nolan shouldn't go into 3 with the idea of making it bigger and better than TDK, trying to top it in terms of spectacle and whatnot. He should take a different route and try to make a film that is unique unto itself while still being very much a sequel. Not something that is packed with even more explosions and action scenes, but a truly great movie that can compete with TDK's level of story telling and characters.
full agreement. i would actually like batman 3 to be the least action heavy installment. have batman using more stealth and whatnot while he's being hunted by the police.

[redfirebird2008]

full agreement. i would actually like batman 3 to be the least action heavy installment. have batman using more stealth and whatnot while he's being hunted by the police.

I would love it if the cliched action climax is thrown out the window with the third film. No more microwave emitters or sonar devices, please. I would also like the third film to be shorter. I felt TDK was around 15-20 minutes longer than it should have been. And I would also like to see the Batvoice toned down some. Get rid of the stupid post-production processing that was applied in TDK. The voice sounded much better in Batman Begins, which either did not contain the same level of processing or had zero processing.

[anrrd_2]

TDK can be topped....if it is like this :awesome:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NgCM46CSwd8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NgCM46CSwd8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Crook]

OMG that mom and kid are awesome. :funny:

[SamuraiSon6]

Can it be topped? Absolutely. Will it be topped? Probably not, even with Nolan attached. It's just the nature of a business based around hype and expectations

[anrrd_2]

OMG that mom and kid are awesome. :funny:

batman kid: WHYDOYOUWANNAKILLME!WHYDOYOUWANNAKILLME!WHYDOYOUWA NNAKILLME!

joker kid: WHAAAAAA!!!! STOP!!! WWHHAA!!!!




bwhahaha classic

[mothy]

Can it be topped? Absolutely. Will it be topped? Probably not, even with Nolan attached. It's just the nature of a business based around hype and expectations
i agree.

no matter how big and successful a third nolan batman movie is, it's most likely going to "disappoint". the movie could clear $400 million in the us (a hefty achievement for any film) and people would start speculating on audiences turning against nolan's films.

the dark knight was one of those perfect storms that come along sometimes where all the elements lined up. the marketing, the casting, (sadly) ledger's passing, general interest in the franchise after batman begins, great word of mouth, etc. the dark knight was ideally positioned for big success. any third film simply can't follow that.

right now, i'm sure their basic attitude is "whatever you say, mr. nolan". but if nolan doesn't come up with a timeline, there will come a point when wb will find another director.

if i were nolan, I'd be calling it a day now. go out on top. he's got little to gain and much to lose. the dark knight had phenomenal action sequences, good performances and genuine emotional ramifications for the lead characters. i just can't see it getting any better than that for nolan. what would a third movie gain him?

strictly from the standpoint of his own sanity, there's some sense in him calling it a day with batman movies and letting someone else take the risk.

in some ways, a hypothetical replacement has an even steeper mountain to climb. not only would they face the same basic pressures and risks as nolan, but they'd have none of the good will from the fans and audiences. on top of all that, they would take all of the blame when the film "underperforms". and in the unlikely event the third one does somehow outgross the dark knight, the director would probably not get much credit for it since he's simply continuing (in some way or another) nolan's storyline.

you have to wonder how many people would be insane enough to take something like that on. i mean, seriously, who needs that kind of pressure?

[Crook]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if it tops TDK? Would I be glad, sure, but it's not a prerequisite for me wanting it to go into production. I simply want something as good as the last one. The bar has been set high, so as long as that level of quality is up to par the third go-round, then I'm set.

I keep bringing it up again and again, but between Godfather 1 and 2, there is always limitless debate of which is better. Does this mean that because of the split sides, 2 shouldn't have been made? Think about it.

[Mr. Earle]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if it tops TDK? Would I be glad, sure, but it's not a prerequisite for me wanting it to go into production. I simply want something as good as the last one. The bar has been set high, so as long as that level of quality is up to par the third go-round, then I'm set.

I keep bringing it up again and again, but between Godfather 1 and 2, there is always limitless debate of which is better. Does this mean that because of the split sides, 2 shouldn't have been made? Think about it.Yeah, i agree!

[BatFan88]

I really don't no if the new movie will be better,It's not going to be a bad movie i think.

[Happy Jack]

Am I the only one that doesn't care if it tops TDK? Would I be glad, sure, but it's not a prerequisite for me wanting it to go into production. I simply want something as good as the last one. The bar has been set high, so as long as that level of quality is up to par the third go-round, then I'm set.

No, I think that as well. Although as great as Batman Begins was if the next film were to be at that level coming off of TDK it would seem like a slight disappointment. On the other hand, few superhero films are as good as Begins so I guess we would be fortunate. :yay:

[Ace of Knaves]

TDK will never be topped. NEVAH!!! There is no point in even trying because it will tarnish the memory of the greatest film evah!!!

In fact, let's just not have any more Batman movies ever again!!! And most certainly no more interpretations of Joker!!!

[Figs]

Simple question...simple answer.

Yes.

The number of times I've watched TDK since it hit DVD/Blu Ray has been quite a few. I've noticed over time, as great as it is, I still prefer BB a bit more. After the hype wore off I realized that yes, this is still a damn good film and a great comic film but a lot of the hype was based on seeing the Joker return to the big screen to go at it with Batman. Then add in the bonus of Two Face, which despite still not being 100% comic accurate was a immense improvement over Schumacher's version.

Two easy ways it can be topped is.

1. Way more Batman this time around.

2. Go back to the look and feel of Gotham in BB. TDK looked great and had some great sky shots but lost the feel that I liked from BB. Didn't feel or seem like Gotham at all. I don't know Chicago for **** either, so it wasn't the excuse that I could recognize buildings/landmarks. It just needed to look and feel dirtier and slimy, afterall Gotham is supposed to be one of the worst and most crime ridden cities in comics.

Not sure about villians, over the years I just don't have as much energy or excitement to speculate for days on end like everyone else about who could be the next villians and who should be casted. Basically, I'm patiently waiting to even hear if Nolan will in fact return for one more let alone which villian/s he might use.

In short I'm pretty open to whatever his decisions are in regards to whom Batman will go up against in the next film...so long as it isn't the mob again.

[Mr. Earle]

Figs... Its like you read my mind!

[Crook]

While I can understand the desire for a more Gotham-y feel, I'm not sure people realize Gotham is still a largely populated city. It is impossible for an entire city to look disheveled and crime-ridden. It is mostly isolated into certain bad parts of the area, but never on a wide scale.

Considering TDK was all about the heart of the city, it's unfair to use that as a critique.

[Happy Jack]

Considering TDK was all about the heart of the city, it's unfair to use that as a critique.
And that Begins took place mostly in the Narrows, a small sect of the city. Gotham as a whole looked mostly the same between the movies, with the only real difference being the monorail and Wayne tower.

[Mr. Earle]

And that Begins took place mostly in the Narrows, a small sect of the city. Gotham as a whole looked mostly the same between the movies, with the only real difference being the monorail and Wayne tower.But that's the point. Nolan just placed the Narrows in there for Batman to play around when most of the city should look like that. Well not that bad, but almost...
Even the alley where he interrogates Flass looked Gotham-y and it wasnt in the Narrows (not to mention that we could see what was going on. In TDK they forgot to light the alleys apparently). Gotham should have huge skyscrapers, dirty neighbourhoods with rooftops close to each other for him to walk around. And we got that in Begins.
In TDK we got a city with sparsely placed skyscrapers. That clearly wasnt Batman territory. Just Chicago with only a few aerial CGI shots. No comic booky elements like the monorail (OMG i forgot it was somewhere in the background of a wide aerial shot. Let me get my microscope) or the huge towers. Nolan clearly wanted to make this film more realistic in feel so that his story could pass as more serious. Without Batman, the Joker and Dent's half face, you could mistake TDK for Heat 2, or ER (it was shot in Chicago). As i've said before, when the Joker says "i think you and i are destined to do this forever" i didnt feel a thing. I didnt feel like this was the start of their eternal battle because it didnt feel like Gotham, and Batman didnt look like Batman.

Even though i hate Superman Returns, i gotta give it to them. They nailed the Superman atmosphere and even though it was realistic, Metropolis had that something to it that set it apart from real cities.

To close this, it seems to me that Nolan is embarrassed that he is doing a comic book film. Realism isnt just a directorial approach, its a way to keep his seriousness. Like the jock that doesnt want to be associated with nerdy stuff so he barely touches them. So he is afraid to dive in deep and he only takes realistic villains and realistic stories. And trying to make his story more realistic and appealing to the wider audience he shot TDK not in Gotham but in Chicago.
That or he simply is afraid of another Schumacher debacle. But Ironman, Hellboy and perhaps more movies have proved that there can be a middle ground between nipples and bat-ice skates and uber realism. Fun, comic booky, realistic, deep and serious, all in one.

[Happy Jack]

You complain an awful lot, ya know that?

[Mr. Earle]

I know.

[Crook]

Nolan wanted to capture the wide scope of Gotham. The only way to do that 100% convincingly, is to do on-set location on an actual metropolitan city. This has nothing to do with realism.

Would I like his Gotham to actually look more like Gotham than Chicago? Sure. But what you're asking for can't exist without building it with sets/CGI. By convention, that defeats the capturing of the 'feel' of a breathing, metropolitan area, because current tools are not advanced enough to create that from scratch.

[Rodrigo90]

I Believe In Christopher Nolan.

[Mr. Earle]

Nolan wanted to capture the wide scope of Gotham. The only way to do that 100% convincingly, is to do on-set location on an actual metropolitan city. This has nothing to do with realism.

Would I like his Gotham to actually look more like Gotham than Chicago? Sure. But what you're asking for can't exist without building it with sets/CGI. By convention, that defeats the capturing of the 'feel' of a breathing, metropolitan area, because current tools are not advanced enough to create that from scratch.Well the Narrows in Begins looked pretty realistic and yet it was all a huge set. Snyder built an entire NY neighbourhood for Watchmen and watching the film you'd think that he actually shot it in NY.
But anyway, dont American cities have Gothamesque neighbourhoods? The Narrows were a bit too far fetched, but i could see some dirty NY/Chicago/Detroit neighbourhoods being suitable for Gotham.

In TDK i didnt get the feel that he could jump around on rooftops or that the dark alleys were his playground. He looked like he needed to drive around. We barely got any alleys and when we did they were barely lit and we couldnt see anything.
Crook, its not just about Nolan wanting to shoot in the central financial district area of Gotham. It was that the city generally lack "it" and it should have "it" wherever Nolan chose to shoot.

I know this is a screenshot from the animated movie but its the best i could find with a quick search on google.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3346/batmangothamknightp.jpg
What did we get in TDK instead? This, with Batman standing like a log on top of a skyscraper with no other skyscraper on site. A chance for an iconic shot was lost.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9479/tdkqr3.jpg

[Mr. Earle]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/904/batmanbegins19.jpg
This wasnt in Begins, but i think it was in the menus of its DVD. Its OK since Begins was full of other iconic moments. Like when Batman stands on that tower with his cape covering a bit part of its top, right after he gets Falcone and saves Rachel in the train station.
Compare these with the TDK pic in my previous post.

[Happy Jack]

Snyder built an entire NY neighbourhood for Watchmen and watching the film you'd think that he actually shot it in NY.

Um, no.


What did we get in TDK instead? This, with Batman standing like a log on top of a skyscraper with no other skyscraper on site. A chance for an iconic shot was lost.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9479/tdkqr3.jpgCompare that shot to this:
http://screenmusings.org/BatmanBegins/pages/BB_0558.htm

The city looks nearly identical.

[Mr. Earle]

That's the shot i was talking about when i said: Begins was full of other iconic moments. Like when Batman stands on that tower with his cape covering a bit part of its top, right after he gets Falcone and saves Rachel in the train station.
Identical? No way. I wouldnt expect the city to look the same from two different places, but you can see how much more batmanesque the begins shots look.

[The Guard]

I think the actual character conflict in a third film could definitely top THE DARK KNIGHT, even if the villains aren't as memorable as The Joker. THE DARK KNIGHT really and truly just scratched the surface of the potential of the Batman mythology and Bruce's story arc.

[Happy Jack]

but you can see how much more batmanesque the begins shots look.
Actually, I can't. They both have "Batmanesque" shots and moments, neither more or less so than the other, just different. And I'm sorry, but you're out of your friggin' mind if you think there were no iconic shots of Batman in TDK. This alone trumps any shots in Begins (IMO):

http://screenmusings.org/TheDarkKnight/pages/tdk_2155.htm

[Mr. Earle]

Actually, I can't. They both have "Batmanesque" shots and moments, neither more or less so than the other, just different. And I'm sorry, but you're out of your friggin' mind if you think there were no iconic shots of Batman in TDK. This alone trumps any shots in Begins (IMO):

http://screenmusings.org/TheDarkKnight/pages/tdk_2155.htm
The suit totally ruined it for me. Had he not looked like robotcop and had his cape cloaked him while also billowing in the wind, it would have been epic.

I know, i know... I am hard to please.

[The Guard]

Yeah...can't get on board with Batman standing slightly above ground level amidst rubble during a voiceover being more iconic than...THE shot in BATMAN BEGINS.

[El Payaso]

That or he simply is afraid of another Schumacher debacle. But Ironman, Hellboy and perhaps more movies have proved that there can be a middle ground between nipples and bat-ice skates and uber realism. Fun, comic booky, realistic, deep and serious, all in one.

Well, IMO if Hellboy 1 and 2 proved somethingh is why wait to the third movie to make crap?


This wasnt in Begins, but i think it was in the menus of its DVD. Its OK since Begins was full of other iconic moments. Like when Batman stands on that tower with his cape covering a bit part of its top, right after he gets Falcone and saves Rachel in the train station.
Compare these with the TDK pic in my previous post.

Other than the one you mention, Batman's heroic poses wlasted good 0.45 seconds each in BB.

[Figs]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/904/batmanbegins19.jpg
This wasnt in Begins, but i think it was in the menus of its DVD. Its OK since Begins was full of other iconic moments. Like when Batman stands on that tower with his cape covering a bit part of its top, right after he gets Falcone and saves Rachel in the train station.
Compare these with the TDK pic in my previous post.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that shot was in the film.

Or was it a different background(Narrows maybe), where he's hunched over just like that with his cape billowing around him.

[returntovoid]

Simple question...simple answer.

Yes.

The number of times I've watched TDK since it hit DVD/Blu Ray has been quite a few. I've noticed over time, as great as it is, I still prefer BB a bit more. After the hype wore off I realized that yes, this is still a damn good film and a great comic film but a lot of the hype was based on seeing the Joker return to the big screen to go at it with Batman. Then add in the bonus of Two Face, which despite still not being 100% comic accurate was a immense improvement over Schumacher's version.

Two easy ways it can be topped is.

1. Way more Batman this time around.

2. Go back to the look and feel of Gotham in BB. TDK looked great and had some great sky shots but lost the feel that I liked from BB. Didn't feel or seem like Gotham at all. I don't know Chicago for **** either, so it wasn't the excuse that I could recognize buildings/landmarks. It just needed to look and feel dirtier and slimy, afterall Gotham is supposed to be one of the worst and most crime ridden cities in comics.

Not sure about villians, over the years I just don't have as much energy or excitement to speculate for days on end like everyone else about who could be the next villians and who should be casted. Basically, I'm patiently waiting to even hear if Nolan will in fact return for one more let alone which villian/s he might use.

In short I'm pretty open to whatever his decisions are in regards to whom Batman will go up against in the next film...so long as it isn't the mob again.

This post is full of win! :awesome::applaud

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/904/batmanbegins19.jpg
This wasnt in Begins, but i think it was in the menus of its DVD. Its OK since Begins was full of other iconic moments. Like when Batman stands on that tower with his cape covering a bit part of its top, right after he gets Falcone and saves Rachel in the train station.
Compare these with the TDK pic in my previous post.

All the great iconic shots of Batman in Begins seriously piss over the generic/not so iconic shots in TDK. :up:

[Mr. Earle]

Well, IMO if Hellboy 1 and 2 proved somethingh is why wait to the third movie to make crap?I dont understand what you mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that shot was in the film.

Or was it a different background(Narrows maybe), where he's hunched over just like that with his cape billowing around him.Even better for Begins then.

[Ace of Knaves]

He's saying the Hellboy movies are crap, which I strongly disagree with.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Can it be topped in terms of popularity? no

Can it be topped in terms of quality? yes

The films quality is only limited by the director's/screenwriter's imagination.

[Mr. Earle]

He's saying the Hellboy movies are crap, which I strongly disagree with.Whaaaaat? :wow:

[El Payaso]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that shot was in the film.

Or was it a different background(Narrows maybe), where he's hunched over just like that with his cape billowing around him.

He was in that very place but standing up. Like with all BB's good Batman shots if you blinked you missed.

All the great iconic shots of Batman in Begins seriously piss over the generic/not so iconic shots in TDK. :up:

What are "all" those great iconic shots? Other than Batman at the top of the tower the rest are like 1 only (the one in the pic) and/or they lasted less than 24 frames.





Whaaaaat? :wow:

That. Great make-ups, fantastic effects, but bad boring movies. The second one was like an awful big-budget sitcom.

[david icke]

He was in that very place but standing up. Like with all BB's good Batman shots if you blinked you missed.


There are two released versions of that shot. The one where you see him standing up is in one of the trailers, you see his legs in that one. In the one they used for BB his legs are obscured by his cape giving the impression that he's crouched.

[Mr. Earle]

Pity they didnt give that shot a few more seconds.

[Figs]

This post is full of win! :awesome::applaud



All the great iconic shots of Batman in Begins seriously piss over the generic/not so iconic shots in TDK. :up:

I have to say that the shot of him standing on the rubble with the firefighters in the background was fairly iconic and probably the most badass shot of him in the film.

[Closerframe]

If the poll is referring to story, than yes, The Dark Knight could easily be topped, but money wise no. The Dark Knight had everything going for it; Batman's greatest villain(s), the best viral sites ever created, and the perfect weekend where nothing else really came out, unless you count Mamma Mia! and Space Chimps.

[Mr. Earle]

You re forgetting Heath's death. As bad as it might sound, it did help the movie's box office.

[El Payaso]

There are two released versions of that shot. The one where you see him standing up is in one of the trailers, you see his legs in that one. In the one they used for BB his legs are obscured by his cape giving the impression that he's crouched.

What to say about one of the most popular posters with Batman and his wings spreaded. One of the best iconic Batman shots ever and ot wasn't in the movie because of the lousy editing in the action scenes.

Pity they didnt give that shot a few more seconds.

Same as with everything Batman in that movie.

[Mr. Earle]

What to say about one of the most popular posters with Batman and his wings spreaded. One of the best iconic Batman shots ever and ot wasn't in the movie because of the lousy editing in the action scenes.The most popular was the one that he uses the cape to glide down the stairwell in Arkham. Is that what you re referring to? Cause that was in the movie.

[Cordoba]

TDK can not, and will not, be topped by any potential third instalment.

[Mr. Earle]

^ And you know this because?

[Happy Jack]

The most popular was the one that he uses the cape to glide down the stairwell in Arkham. Is that what you re referring to? Cause that was in the movie.
Yeah, for about 2 to 3 seconds.

[Mr. Earle]

Well Arkham isnt a skyscraper so the gliding couldnt last more. Watch some Snyder movies. His use of slo-mo will allow you to admire the poses more.

[Happy Jack]

Well Arkham isnt a skyscraper so the gliding couldnt last more. Watch some Snyder movies. His use of slo-mo will allow you to admire the poses more.
I think his use of slo-mo is distracting actually, he doesn't seem to understand the meaning of subtlety. But that's a discussion for another day.

[El Payaso]

The most popular was the one that he uses the cape to glide down the stairwell in Arkham. Is that what you re referring to? Cause that was in the movie.

No it wasn't. There was though a few frames before that part could be seen.

Yeah, for about 2 to 3 seconds.

2 - 3 frames you mean: I wish there were 3 seconds.

Well Arkham isnt a skyscraper so the gliding couldnt last more. Watch some Snyder movies. His use of slo-mo will allow you to admire the poses more.

Or some director who can edit properly. Burton even Schumacher had great gliding Batman shots and Arkham's height was good enough, and if it wasn't Nolan should have had a good/tall enough Arkham for good Batman shots.

[Mr. Earle]

SjBxLfii3B0
You got a point El Payaso. Most of the scene we see Batman dropping with his cape closed. Goddamnit Nolan!

[Closerframe]

You re forgetting Heath's death. As bad as it might sound, it did help the movie's box office.

No one can really say this because its happened in the past when actors died, and they have finished films that haven't been seen and they don't make much money because if it were a factor I think Michael Jackson's This Is It would have made more money. And what if The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus flops, what than can said about Heath's death playing a factor?

[Crook]

I thought it was obvious? There can't possibly be a more hyped performance in the history of film than what this was.

It wasn't just Heath. It was Joker. It was the sensationalist notion that he gave his heart and soul to this role, and died for it. It was all the hoopla about how damn good he was. It was the mainstream salivation of a fresh Joker portrayal. It was the haunting idea that a young talent left us with possibly one of the greatest cinematic villains of all time.

All that fed into the hype train.

[TheWrathOfGod]

Sure, all WB needs to do is kill Christian Bale after filming.

[Cordoba]

^ And you know this because?
There is no Heath Ledger. No Joker.

If you think it can be topped, then you are living in clowd cuckoo land.

[Ace of Knaves]

If you don't think it can be topped you have a serious lack of imagination and ironically for someone with your user name, lack of faith in Nolan.

I believe there is many things that can be improved upon. The fight scenes for instance, which IMO were absolute dog ****. Reminded me of Power Rangers.

[Cordoba]

If you don't think it can be topped you have a serious lack of imagination and ironically for someone with your user name, lack of faith in Nolan.

I believe there is many things that can be improved upon. The fight scenes for instance, which IMO were absolute dog ****. Reminded me of Power Rangers.
I have the ultimate faith in Nolan, but it is not a question of how well Nolan can make the movie. It is a question of it making a billion in cash. It won't.

What Crook said is right: there has not been a more hyped performance than Heath's in recent years.

[Ace of Knaves]

It could make another billion. But anyway that's not what I'm arguing about.

I'm talking more in terms of quality. Now TDK is a great film, but it is far from flawless, and I feel a guy like Nolan is one of those guys who is a supreme perfectionist. He would of found flaws in TDK, and he'll set about making sure they are improved upon for the next film.

[Cordoba]

It could make another billion. But anyway that's not what I'm arguing about.

I'm talking more in terms of quality. Now TDK is a great film, but it is far from flawless, and I feel a guy like Nolan is one of those guys who is a supreme perfectionist. He would of found flaws in TDK, and he'll set about making sure they are improved upon for the next film.
The quality will be fine, I'm sure. Quality and Box Office numbers do not go hand-in-hand. If we are to believe a movie's quality is based on its Box Office, then are we to assume that Titanic is the best film ever?

[Ace of Knaves]

Ah no of course not.

Transformers 2 made a bomb, and I honestly think it is one of the biggest piles of dog **** ever.

[Cordoba]

Ah no of course not.

Transformers 2 made a bomb, and I honestly think it is one of the biggest piles of dog **** ever.
For me, it is definitely one of the worst movie of all time.

[Jdeadevil]

I still don't know in detail what everyone hates about the Transformers live action films (first and second), is it because they used Linkin Park? Is it because he said the same thing at the end of both movies? Is it because it might not be the same as an original comic or whatever?

I personally didn't mind them, thought they were alright to be quite honest..

[Two-Face]

Yeah totally TF2 was crap not great as the first one. Agree with you guys.

[Mr. Earle]

Sure, all WB needs to do is kill Christian Bale after filming.No! Keep him alive! In the future he can be old Bruce in a Batman Beyond film. How awesome would that be?

If you don't think it can be topped you have a serious lack of imagination and ironically for someone with your user name, lack of faith in Nolan.

I believe there is many things that can be improved upon. The fight scenes for instance, which IMO were absolute dog ****. Reminded me of Power Rangers.I agree and i was gonna give him the same answer.
As a film it can be surpassed as far as us fans are concerned (i even think that Begins was a better batman film), but as box office and general audience goes, i dont know...
The Joker was the most recognisable villain, we had that Heath vs Jack comparison with everyone eager to see how the new guy did against the legendary Nicholson, we had Heath's penultimate performance and death, Oscar talk, etc.

I will be almost impossible for the sequel to repeat such a success, but it surely can be a better film. I hope that if it does 800 million that WB will not treat it like a failure (affecting their judgement on future films), but will understand that TDK had a lot of things working in its favour.

[RachelDawes]

I'm sure WB is aware that B3 will make less money than TDK unless it too has the Joker in it. I'd be shocked if they viewed $800 mil as a disappointment.

[Conebone69]

The Dark Knight was easily the biggest superhero movie of all time! Especially with the death of Heath Ledger as The Joker.

Do you think there is anyway The Dark Knight Rises can surpass TDK as the biggest superhero film?

[Boom]

Quality-wise, of course it can.

Box-office-wise, not a chance in hell.

[Gianakin_]

What Boom said.

[bullets]

I don't think it will pass it when it comes to box office either but quality is an entirely different thing so basically , what boom said.

[Conebone69]

Quality-wise, of course it can.

Box-office-wise, not a chance in hell.

You never know man

[Franklin Richards]

I'm the opposite. I think it can do better at the BO but prolly will take a dip in quality.



:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Conebone69]

I'm the opposite. I think it can do better at the BO but prolly will take a dip in quality.



:doom: :doom: :doom:

Really? Why a dip in quality?