Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[RustyCage]

Excluding Harley, Riddler is the closest thing to the Joker than any other villain. ...they have A SIMILAR presence.

What? :huh: That's a ridiculous generalization.

The Joker has a chaotic, scary, laughing, psychopathic presence. The Riddler's presence is that of a suave, somewhat chivalrous, intellectual god.

[jmc]

Not to mention an obsessive compulsive with an ego bigger than Jupiter. They couldn't be further apart in terms of character. The similar presence thing comes from Frank Gorshim and Jim Carrey's portrayals of the character.

[GaiusBaltar]

Wait, wait, guys, people... are you listening to yourselves? "Couldn't be further apart"?? Ask yourselves: who's more similar to the Joker... The Riddler, Two-Face, or Ra's al Ghul?

For better or worse, the current interpretation of the Joker we have in the movies brings those similiarities more into the spotlight.
- They're both proud and arrogant and have immense egos, and they feel they're intellectually superior to the rest of the people.
- They are often depicted as rather think, caucasian men wearing green and purple in sometimes too elegant wardrobes.
- They both make deathly traps and leave complicated clues to the police and Batman to figure out out to stop them.
- They often communicate to their opponents through screens or written messages, posing challenges those people have to overcome.
- They're obssesed with Batman even to the point of sometimes letting him go when he falls into their (or someone else's traps) and try to engage him in direct confrontation, often of the psychological/intellectual type.

Now, try to apply that stuff to the rest of the rogues gallery. Killer Croc, the Penguin, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, the Ventriloquist, Bane... none of them is more similar to the Joker than the Riddler.

[Rodrigo90]

Wait, wait, guys, people... are you listening to yourself? "Couldn't be further apart"?? Ask yourselves: who's more similar to the Joker... The Riddler, Two-Face, or Ra's al Ghul?

For better or worst, the current interpretation of the Joker we have in the movies brings those similiarities more into the spotlight.
- They're both proud and arrogant and have immense egos, and they feel they're intellectually superior to the rest of the people.
- They are often depicted as rather think, caucasian men wearing green and purple in sometimes too elegant wardrobes.
- They both make deathly traps and leave complicated clues to the police and Batman to figure out out to stop them.
- They often communicate to their opponents through screens or written messages, posing challenges those people have to overcome.
- They're obssesed with Batman even to the point of sometimes letting him go when he falls into their (or someone else's traps) and try to engage him in direct confrontation, often of the psychological/intellectual type.

Now, try to apply that stuff to the rest of the rogues gallery. Killer Croc, the Penguin, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, the Ventriloquist, Bane... none of them is more similar to the Joker than the Riddler.

:up:

[Rodrigo90]

OK. Forget about him trying to outdo the Joker as a goal,but he should openly admit

"Im a fan of his style,but I am 100 times the genius he is".

For the sake of realism he should definitely be inspired by Joker,but the real reason was he wanted to takedown Batman. So it is indirectly Batman's fault.

[Jolly C.]

everything is batmans fault, if there was no batman there would be no villains.

[Two-Face]

Then mob would rule Gotham.

[Jolly C.]

soooo i wonder whats worse lol

[jmc]

For better or worse, the current interpretation of the Joker we have in the movies brings those similiarities more into the spotlight.
- They're both proud and arrogant and have immense egos, and they feel they're intellectually superior to the rest of the people.
To an extent, Joker didn't once brag about being intellectually superior. - They are often depicted as rather think, caucasian men wearing green and purple in sometimes too elegant wardrobes.
Aesthetics, and I'd hardly call the Joker's look in TDK 'elegant'. - They both make deathly traps and leave complicated clues to the police and Batman to figure out out to stop them.
Complicated clues? Every 'clue' Joker left was as obvious as the nose on his face. Riddler works with puzzles, conundrums, genuine brain testers, the Joker did nothing of the sort in TDK. The Joker delt with absolutes in the film, the boat scene, the hospital, him getting arrested, there was nothing to 'solve'. - They often communicate to their opponents through screens or written messages, posing challenges those people have to overcome.
So the Riddler should use carrier pigeon in film 3 for his riddles? - They're obssesed with Batman even to the point of sometimes letting him go when he falls into their (or someone else's traps) and try to engage him in direct confrontation, often of the psychological/intellectual type.

To an extent all the villains are obsessed with Batman in one way or another, that's par for the course with Batman. Now, try to apply that stuff to the rest of the rogues gallery. Killer Croc, the Penguin, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, the Ventriloquist, Bane... none of them is more similar to the Joker than the Riddler.

All you're points are doing is skimming the surface of both characters. One is a homicidal maniac, the other is an obsessive compulsive loser, even with the vague similarities you brought up they are still completely different people, and that's what's important.

[ronny]

everything is batmans fault, if there was no batman there would be no villains.

What nonsense. Do you want to know who to blame for criminals running loose? How about the criminals?

No one forced Harvey Dent to go on a killing spree because he got acid thrown in his face, he even admits (Batman: Crime And Punishment) that many other people would simply lick their wounds and get over it. He made a concious choice to break the law in a quest for some warped justice.

Same with Scarecrow, did Batman make him kill those two kids who mocked him at a party? Nope, he went away, planned, created a costume and then forged a situation in which they would be literally frightened to death.

And Batman never forced Riddler into anything either. He was a cheat and a crook from a very young age, graduating from cheating in a school contest to robbing the place he worked at.
It wasn't Batman who began his obsession with riddles, it was his own perfectionism and boredom.

The whole idea that Batman is responsible for any of these freaks is utterly absurd. No, not even The Joker. I mean, when a guy voluntarily jumps into a vat of bleach how is it the fault of anybody else?

[Jolly C.]

ronny im talkin about the way the movies are portraying it...the escalation aspect.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

- They are often depicted as rather think, caucasian men wearing green and purple in sometimes too elegant wardrobes.

I don't think you can really take that purple and green thing too far, as those are the two most used colors in comics. I think it's just more of a coincidence.

[GaiusBaltar]

To an extent, Joker didn't once brag about being intellectually superior.

"If you're good at something never do it for free."

"- You think you can steal from us and then walk away?
- Yeah. "

"Look what I did to this town with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets."

Come on. The Joker didn't ever say the words "intellectual" and "superior", but everything (and I mean everything) he did exuded superiority. And seeing how he managed to pull off the most convoluted plans and still be one step ahead of everyone until the end, well, he may have been the intellectual superior indeed.

Aesthetics, and I'd hardly call the Joker's look in TDK 'elegant'.

Neither would Maroni, but let's face it, a green coat and tie and a bowler hat can't really be called "elegant" either. The point is the idea behind it, trying to do elegance but in an zany, over-the-top manner. The Joker was still wearing an expensive suit and an overcoat. More to the point, aesthetics do a great deal of conveying what a character is about, let's not downplay its relevance here, shall we?

Complicated clues? Every 'clue' Joker left was as obvious as the nose on his face. Riddler works with puzzles, conundrums, genuine brain testers, the Joker did nothing of the sort in TDK. The Joker delt with absolutes in the film, the boat scene, the hospital, him getting arrested, there was nothing to 'solve'.

Suuure....

JOKER CARD: "Will the real Batman please stand up?"

RAMÍREZ: Lieutenant! That Joker card pinned to the body, forensics found 3 sets of DNA.
GORDON: Any matches?
RAMÍREZ: All three. The DNA belongs to judge Surrillo, Harvey Dent and Commissioner Loeb.
GORDON: The Joker's telling us who's he's targeting.

Quite obvious, uh?

Add to that the Richard Harvey/Patrick Dent murder and the fake front page obituary. Yeah, those clues may be direct threats (which, considering other stuff he did, like saying he was going to blow up a hospital or two ferries at midnight, are not direct at all) all the Riddler can do is improve on that, make it more mentally challenging... but it's not radically different as you suggest, they're not worlds apart. They're still two psychos leaving indirect clues about where they plan to strike next, in order to taunt the police and even see if they can stop them.

So the Riddler should use carrier pigeon in film 3 for his riddles?

Nope, but you either acknoledge those similarities, like Rodrigo90 said, or you put a spin on them and make it more specific, like the Riddler only communicating through screens and distorted voices but in a very sophisticated way, maybe with a fake avatarish image... not the snuff films and the tv phone calls, if you get my drift.
Personally, I prefer Rodrigo's option. If the Joker was in fact the first large scale, massively public terrorist, and the Riddler has to retrace some of his steps, the least you can do is slightly admit the inspiration and move on.
In the Fed idea, I would even prefer Nygma noticing this and creating a false psycho criminal that purposely follows some of the Joker M.O., to add authenticity to his con, in order to lure Batman out.
But no matter what route one takes, the audience is going to see these similarities and it's better to acknowledge them instead of pretending they're not there.

To an extent all the villains are obsessed with Batman in one way or another, that's par for the course with Batman.

Many of them are not obssesed enough to even consider letting him go just because he's such a worthy opponent. Frankly, I don't see the Penguin letting Batman go or stopping other criminals from killing him because he wants that right. Neither Two-Face, except for the favorable coin toss. Catwoman would spare him for actual, real sympathy, not because of distorted admiration. In Begins, Ra's just had a very freaky idea of justice and left Bruce to die in a fire, but to die nonetheless. Keep mentioning criminals: You get the idea.

All your points are doing is skimming the surface of both characters. One is a homicidal maniac, the other is an obsessive compulsive loser, even with the vague similarities you brought up they are still completely different people, and that's what's important.

Here to touch a very good point... The 'loser' form is a one of several variations of the character. Granted, it's a very popular one, but not the definitive. Are we 100% sure an obsessive compulsive loser can be a main villain? If not, are we willing to include the Riddler in a role that fits this lessened form? Wouldn't that be a waste of potential? Byt this point in the story, any antagonist must be enhanced and their menace levels increased all the way up to fit the final chapter of the trilogy. Not 'losers' allowed. And I say this about all the villains that are considered "secondary": The Riddler, the Penguin, Catwoman, Killer Croc... if any of them is included, it must be in their greatest and most dangerous form, no less than that. Never, ever, consider lowering the bar.

And once you do that inevitable adaptation to the Riddler, the similarities between him and the Joker become even more evident. He comes from being an "obssesive compulsive loser" to being a maniac too. Maybe less homicidal, but a maniac anyway. We can't have a villain who threatens Gotham's citizens to... rob their bank accounts.

Besides, my comparison was hardly 'skimming the surface'. Read it again, please. You couldn't have been more wrong.

[GaiusBaltar]

I don't think you can really take that purple and green thing too far, as those are the two most used colors in comics. I think it's just more of a coincidence.

The colors are just part of the coincidence, but within Batman's Rogues Gallery there aren't really more villains like them. I repeat: thin, caucasian males wearing suits mostly in green and purple. How many?

[Jolly C.]

I like the idea of Edward Nigma/Nashton as a fed trying to lure batman out into the open so he becomes a "villain" and takes the persona of the riddler at first to lure batman out and catch him but then later he divulges into the villain side due to the failed efforts of catching batman and fully becomes the riddler for real.

[jmc]

''If you're good at something never do it for free.''

''- You think you can steal from us and then walk away?
- Yeah. ''

''Look what I did to this town with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.''

Come on. The Joker didn't ever say the words ''intellectual'' and ''superior'', but everything (and I mean everything) he did exuded superiority. And seeing how he managed to pull off the most convoluted plans and still be one step ahead of everyone until the end, well, he may have been the intellectual superior indeed.

Not the issue, the point is The Joker wasn't someone who openly thought and said he was intellectually superior, so you could easily have Riddler be that type of egotistical know-it-all who flaunts his genius at others to make himself feel bigger and not be repeating anyting.

Neither would Maroni, but let's face it, a green coat and tie and a bowler hat can't really be called ''elegant'' either. The point is the idea behind it, trying to do elegance but in an zany, over-the-top manner. The Joker was still wearing an expensive suit and an overcoat. More to the point, aesthetics do a great deal of conveying what a character is about, let's not downplay its relevance here, shall we?

Not down playing the relevance of aesthetics, you said that both characters dress in elegant wardrobe, the Joker looked anything but in TDK, expense of suit is irrelevant, the guy looked like a walking corpse. As for the Riddler, your guess is as good as mine as to what he'd look like, but it won't be anything like The Joker, that I'll put money on. Again not repeating anything.

Suuure....

JOKER CARD: ''Will the real Batman please stand up?''

RAMÍREZ: Lieutenant! That Joker card pinned to the body, forensics found 3 sets of DNA.
GORDON: Any matches?
RAMÍREZ: All three. The DNA belongs to judge Surrillo, Harvey Dent and Commissioner Loeb.
GORDON: The Joker's telling us who's he's targeting.

Quite obvious, uh?
Glad you're not a cop. Police forensics 101: Search evidence for traces of DNA.
Add to that the Richard Harvey/Patrick Dent murder and the fake front page obituary. Yeah, those clues may be direct threats (which, considering other stuff he did, like saying he was going to blow up a hospital or two ferries at midnight, are not direct at all) all the Riddler can do is improve on that, make it more mentally challenging... but it's not radically different as you suggest, they're not worlds apart. They're still two psychos leaving indirect clues about where they plan to strike next, in order to taunt the police and even see if they can stop them.

You can't call them clues if they tell you what he's going to do, it's a direct threat, no getting around it, the Joker made threats. It's vastly different from leaving some vague zodiac style letter to decipher, granted it's even the police the Riddler deals with in the first place. Again not the issue

Nope, but you either acknoledge those similarities, like Rodrigo90 said, or you put a spin on them and make it more specific, like the Riddler only communicating through screens and distorted voices but in a very sophisticated way, maybe with a fake avatarish image... not the snuff films and the tv phone calls, if you get my drift.
Personally, I prefer Rodrigo's option. If the Joker was in fact the first large scale, massively public terrorist, and the Riddler has to retrace some of his steps, the least you can do is slightly admit the inspiration and move on.
Assuming the Riddler's scheme is as grand as the Jokers to begin with, which it doesn't have to be in order to make him a good bad guy. In the Fed idea, I would even prefer Nygma noticing this and creating a false psycho criminal that purposely follows some of the Joker M.O., to add authenticity to his con, in order to lure Batman out.
But no matter what route one takes, the audience is going to see these similarities and it's better to acknowledge them instead of pretending they're not there.
They'll only see similarities if the characters are treated the same, which they wont.

Many of them are not obssesed enough to even consider letting him go just because he's such a worthy opponent. Frankly, I don't see the Penguin letting Batman go or stopping other criminals from killing him because he wants that right. Neither Two-Face, except for the favorable coin toss. Catwoman would spare him for actual, real sympathy, not because of distorted admiration. In Begins, Ra's just had a very freaky idea of justice and left Bruce to die in a fire, but to die nonetheless. Keep mentioning criminals: You get the idea.

Thing is the Joker wasn't obsessed with Batman in TDK, simple as that, at no point did Batman get under his skin and make him go crazy, his goal was to prove Batman could break his rule, hell the Joker in so many words admitted defeat: 'You truly are incorruptible'. So again you're not going to be repeating anything if they choose to make the Riddler's challenge with Batman become an obsession because the Joker never had one in the first place.

Here to touch a very good point... The 'loser' form is a one of several variations of the character. Granted, it's a very popular one, but not the definitive. Are we 100% sure an obsessive compulsive loser can be a main villain? If not, are we willing to include the Riddler in a role that fits this lessened form? Wouldn't that be a waste of potential? Byt this point in the story, any antagonist must be enhanced and their menace levels increased all the way up to fit the final chapter of the trilogy. Not 'losers' allowed. And I say this about all the villains that are considered ''secondary'': The Riddler, the Penguin, Catwoman, Killer Croc... if any of them is included, it must be in their greatest and most dangerous form, no less than that. Never, ever, consider lowering the bar.

And once you do that inevitable adaptation to the Riddler, the similarities between him and the Joker become even more evident. He comes from being an ''obssesive compulsive loser'' to being a maniac too. Maybe less homicidal, but a maniac anyway. We can't have a villain who threatens Gotham's citizens to... rob their bank accounts.

Besides, my comparison was hardly 'skimming the surface'. Read it again, please. You couldn't have been more wrong. The more I read your posts, the more I get the impression the only reason you think the similarities are as close as they are is because you think the only way the Riddler can work is if he's like the Joker. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I get. And as for your question can an obsessive compulsive loser be the main villain? Yes it he can, but he doesn't need to match the Joker in terms of scale in order to be a credible villain, nor does Batman 3 have to match the scale of TDK to be a credible film, hell it wouldn't surprise me if Batman 3 has a completely different feel all together from films one and two. This is all a pointless discussion anyway cause if Nolan's in charge of Batman 3 and if Riddler's the villain, you can bet you're house on it it will be nothing like the Joker.

[GaiusBaltar]

Not the issue, the point is The Joker wasn't someone who openly thought and said he was intellectually superior

Did the three quotes I posted mean anything to you? Did you read them?

So you could easily have Riddler be that type of egotistical know-it-all who flaunts his genius at others to make himself feel bigger and not be repeating anyting.

I get it, in a way Crane was also a bit like this, but one has to see the similarities in a group. If it were only this one, I wouldn't be arguing at all.

Not down playing the relevance of aesthetics, you said that both characters dress in elegant wardrobe, the Joker looked anything but in TDK, expense of suit is irrelevant, the guy looked like a walking corpse.

Due to his make-up and posture? Absolutely. But the suit was faultless. Either way, allow me to rephrase: they both wear suits. And it's not only that. They're both thin, caucasian males

Glad you're not a cop. Police forensics 101: Search evidence for traces of DNA.

Police work lesson 1: Make all investigation departments analyze messages from criminals, including but not limited to: decrypting codes and looking for leads and patterns.
Your point again? That it was simple? Absolutely. But I said already that all the Riddler can do now is expand upon that and make them real challenges. Either way, you can't deny that the Joker so far has been the ONLY villain (1 out of more than 6) who sends taunting messages to the Police.

You can't call them clues if they tell you what he's going to do, it's a direct threat, no getting around it, the Joker made threats.

LOL. You know they both point to the objective and form of the next hit, right?

It's vastly different from leaving some vague zodiac style letter to decipher, granted it's even the police the Riddler deals with in the first place.

It's not vastly different, which has been my point all along. See, a complicated, hard to decipher message is different from a direct one, but still more similar to it than to a complete lack of.

Thing is the Joker wasn't obsessed with Batman in TDK, simple as that, at no point did Batman get under his skin

I just said extremely obssesed, not one thing abut "getting under their skin". But now you mention it, I respectfully differ.

- You're garbage who kills for money.
- Don't talk like one of them, you're not!

...which, at their very first conversation, prompted his most sincere rant about his views in the whole film, and you have to see Ledger's subtle change of expressions to realize it (much in the vein of the "Oh, I'm not." when the mobsters called him a freak)... and the second moment being...

- What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's exactly as you? You're alone.

which, paired with the failure of his plan, got the most sincere reaction out of him with the most insightful comment of the Joker motives. And he wasn't amused.

I believe the Riddler should be more irascible and should be more affected by Batman than the Joker, but you cannot deny their relationship is special. Batman gets the Joker better than anyone ("It's not that simple, with the Joker never is") and the Joker appreciate Batman and gives him a special treatment ("And I won't kill you because you're just too much fun."). And this is even truer in the comics.


his goal was to prove Batman could break his rule, hell the Joker in so many words admitted defeat: 'You truly are incorruptible'. So again you're not going to be repeating anything if they choose to make the Riddler's challenge with Batman become an obsession because the Joker never had one in the first place.

Isn't that admitting obssesion?

The more I read your posts, the more I get the impression the only reason you think the similarities are as close as they are is because you think the only way the Riddler can work is if he's like the Joker. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I get.

I don't want them to be similar, I'm just pointing out at the already established similarities from the comics, which a film adaptation could only increase if done in a loyal yet enhacing way. The Fed route (we were discussing its validity in the first place) diminishes these similiarities by providing new context and role situations for these traits in the Riddler. Being a quesiton of superiority of the Law and intelligence over vigilantism and limited resourcefulness is a different context. It also gives crescendo to his obssesion, as well as making clear distinctions between him and the Joker by giving him a clear origin. Among many other changes it implies.

And as for your question can an obsessive compulsive loser be the main villain? Yes it he can, but he doesn't need to match the Joker in terms of scale in order to be a credible villain, nor does Batman 3 have to match the scale of TDK to be a credible film, hell it wouldn't surprise me if Batman 3 has a completely different feel all together from films one and two.

It may have a different feel, of course. But it needs to present a large threat of at least the same proportions to make it a satisfying third act. No other way around it. We're not talking about credibility here but optimization... and in an optimal third act, you need to raise the stakes and have a climax with a huge apotheosis no matter what. The Riddler needs to be a part of that, but he cannot possibly be a major one in his traditional form.

apotheosisThis is all a pointless discussion anyway cause if Nolan's in charge of Batman 3 and if Riddler's the villain, you can bet you're house on it it will be nothing like the Joker.[/QUOTE]

You've said this many times in this pos and I saved my response until now to put the debate back on his tracks... I'm not arguing it WILL be different. I trust in Nolan's judgement too. But I contend he will only achieve this through an adaptation some people may consider too drastic. Case in question, the same idea: I consider the argument that says a Fed Riddler is a complete change of character to be ridiculous. This iswhat I was talking about. Necessary changes must be done to the character and this one provides him:
- A higher threat level.
- More resonance with the story.
- A context that lessens his many similarities with the Joker enough.

In fact, Jolly C. summed it up pretty briefly here...

I like the idea of Edward Nigma/Nashton as a fed trying to lure batman out into the open so he becomes a "villain" and takes the persona of the riddler at first to lure batman out and catch him but then later he divulges into the villain side due to the failed efforts of catching batman and fully becomes the riddler for real.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Ego, traps, riddles, obssesion, inability to accept defeat, collaboration with the police, eventual transformation into a 'freak criminal', it's all there.

[Rodrigo90]

I like the idea of Edward Nigma/Nashton as a fed trying to lure batman out into the open so he becomes a "villain" and takes the persona of the riddler at first to lure batman out and catch him but then later he divulges into the villain side due to the failed efforts of catching batman and fully becomes the riddler for real.

As Mary once said

"Practicaly perfect in every way".

But I dont see it happening unfortunately. Im keen to see how they expand Edward from the Gotham Times.

[ALittlePush]

I like the idea of Edward Nigma/Nashton as a fed trying to lure batman out into the open so he becomes a "villain" and takes the persona of the riddler at first to lure batman out and catch him but then later he divulges into the villain side due to the failed efforts of catching batman and fully becomes the riddler for real.

I had an idea very similar to that on page 70.


He would appear as Edward Nashton, an FBI agent who is very dedicated to his work, always gets his man, that sort of thing. He becomes frustrated about his failure to catch Batman so his methods become more and more unorthodox in order to lure Batman out. He becomes the Riddler as a trap for Batman. The Riddles are all to lead Batman to Nashton and his arrest. However, the more frustrated Nashton becomes, the more he gets into the Riddler role. He becomes so obsessed with catching Batman that the Riddler isn’t just a trap for Batman anymore but an actual threat to Gotham.

[GaiusBaltar]

That idea in that exact same form has been around these boards for more than a year now. The Ace Of Knaves can testify that, right Ace? ;)

[ALittlePush]

Really? I know the idea of him being a fed has been kicked around quite a lot but I don't recall the bit about the riddler being a trap for batman initially until he actually becomes a threat.

[Ace of Knaves]

Well basically I thought Agent Nashton would start off as a by the book agent. A very good one. Then as he is investigating Batman and he keeps failing to catch him or figure out who he is, he gets more and more obsessed with Batman. We actually see him descend into an obsessive madness as the film goes on. He starts getting paranoid and stuff like that, maybe suspecting Gordon of being in collusion with the Bat. He then secretly becomes The Riddler, setting traps all over Gotham for Batman. Putting civilians or fellow cops/feds in harms way to lure Batman out. The traps getting bigger and more dangerous as his obsession grows.

[ALittlePush]

I like your idea.

[Rodrigo90]

Ah, that was it in the Gotham Times,"Dent Cannot Be Believed". I wonder why Riddler hates Harvey?

[Crook]

Same reason why many politicians are hated; they're two-faced liars who hide/sugarcoat the truth.

[Jolly C.]

But really i cant see any other ideas besides these working for the riddler because if nolan chose the riddler, as GauisBaltar said above, he would try as hard as he can to make him different from the joker...and pretty much the fed ideas are the only ones that stand out from the joker imo.

[Rodrigo90]

Take away his job as a Fed and have him as a vigilante P.I.

Believing his intellect will beat Batman. He doesnt simply want to catch him,but really wants to kill Batman,believing he is evil and corrupting the City. Ofcourse The police and FBI become involved and target both Batman and The Riddler. He doesnt appreciate being classed as a criminal by the city and the competition at catching Batman from the Law and has plans to pick them off as well. So his traps meant for Batman,soon becomes a deadly game for him and others,where he must rescue the lives of the Law Enforcers or succumb to Riddler's traps.

Why does he turn from a vigilante into a criminal?

"Fine. If your feeble minds cant show you the good Im trying to do,so be it. If you think Im a criminal,then I will be. You hate me Gotham...then I hate you. Weak minded fools...Ill show each and every one of you a mind such as mine...Heaven help you all".

[GaiusBaltar]

Really? I know the idea of him being a fed has been kicked around quite a lot but I don't recall the bit about the riddler being a trap for batman initially until he actually becomes a threat.

Oh, yeah, it seems it has been here for ages. In fact they were always together. Maybe the descent into madness that parallels Bruce "losing himself in the monster he created" is just the natural progression of the Fed idea. Maybe brilliant minds think alike :D

[Boom]

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/24/christoph_waltz.jpg

Make it happen, Nolan.

[nolan's roll'n]

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/24/christoph_waltz.jpg

Make it happen, Nolan.


I'm sure I have seen this guy, what actor is this?

[Rodrigo90]

Heres my idea. Edward Nashton was once an aspiring, egotistical police officer. The subject of jealousy by his fellow officers,as he was literary "The World's Greatest Detective". Edward was far from perfect,he was in Carmine Falcone's pocket. Jim Gordon discoverd this,but Nashton was a sneaky one,never left any traces to his crime. Nashton was also being secretly investigated by Internal Affairs,led by Harvey Dent. Gordon could not take anymore and planted evidence on Nashton and contacted IA. Harvey deliberately waited until the day of Edward's promotion to Lieutenant,and had him arrested in front of his colleagues,much to their amusement and Gordon's disgust in himself. Edward was sentenced to over 2 years in Prison.

Edward had been hiding a secret for many years,a mental illness. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder,he suffered from it since childhood. He kept it under control through medication,but didnt recieve it while in Prison. Edward couldn't handle life on the inside and attempted suicide several times.

[nolan's roll'n]

I thought the game Batman Arkham Asylum really nailed the character of the Riddler. I just hated how he is always in the background and he is not part of the story like the Joker and other villains are. If Batman 3, shows a Riddler that is similar to BAA, then I'll be happy.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward had also suffered from a bad childhood,and he couldn't bare to remember it (Also a reason for becoming suicidal). So in order to cope,he focused his mind on complex puzzles and riddles. Making himself think of questions and answers in an attempt to blot out the thoughts of his life. But it was his delusional mind that was kicking in,he knew they were helping him,but in fact it was his Obsessive Compulsive Disorder taking over, Soon Edward could only think of riddles and puzzles. The 2 years went by and he was released. He now possessed a twisted and warped mind.

[Boom]

I'm sure I have seen this guy, what actor is this?
Christoph Waltz, aka Colonel Hans Landa in Inglourious Basterds.

[Rodrigo90]

After claiming his dirty money and trying get his life back on track,Edward started up a small private investigation firm,called "Enigma Solved", Around this time,Batman appeared on the scene.

Edward relentlessly struggled with his illness. His mind had now deepened further into mystery,he couldn't understand what was wrong with him and belived the ilness started while he was in prison, forgetting the fact it was with him since childhood. Then Ra's Al Ghul's attack on the city happened,but Edward was away on an assignment.

5 weeks later,Edward was visited by Sal Maroni. Sal had took the young Edward under his wing,during Edward's time as an Officer and working for Falcone. Sal offered him some work,as he always believed his detective skills were top notch (and also having a P.I. was just as good as having a crooked Detective).

This ofcourse inflated Edward's ego back up and he liked the recognition he had received...but his twisted obsessions was still lurking in his mind,at bay...for now.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward was soon the mobs squeeler,investigating and tracking down people they wanted found. But he refused point black to kill anybody by his own hand...

"I may be a bad guy...but Im not a cold blooded murderer. Even when I was a cop,all I ever did was search for clues and solve mysteries. I never once shot a guy,nor will I now...".

Maroni respected this however. Soon the time came when Harvey became the new District Attorney and the mob wanted Batman dead. They assigned Edward to discover Batman's identity,but he revealed he was already working on it for "personal knowledge".

Then Joker arrived. Edward became a great fan of the Joker's work in the days,and though many people were jealous of Edward's intellect and detective skills, Edward himself was jealous of Joker,but he liked his style. When the discussion for the demise of Harvey come about,Edward calmly walked up to Joker and said

"I have a good idea" That idea which the Joker liked so much, resulted in the death or Rachel and the scarring of Dent.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward was displeased that Harvey did not die from the trap,as that wouldve been his revenge for him humiliating and ruining Edward those years ago. Edward then became obsessed with something else...the Coleman Reese,as Edward himself wanted to discover that mystery. He arrived at the news station,but Resse had already left,without revealing Batman's identity. After the hospital explosion and Harveys secret escape,Edward returned home and buried himself in his clues to try and discover Batman's identity as quickly as possible,but he soon received a call from a thug. Edward arrived at the hospital to see Maroni, after he was attacked by Harvey. Maroni reveals he has lost the use of legs through the car accident and he wants Edward to hunt and kill Dent. Maroni tells Edward that Harvey is going after detective Anna Ramirez. Edward eventually finds her alive and she tells him that Harvey is now going after Gordon's family and that he is getting revenge on those who killed Rachel Dawes.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward tracks Harvey and follows him to where Rachel died. He was ready to open fire and kill Dent,but he couldn't. He could NOT bring himself to kill the man who ruined his life,that caused hell for him,by his own hand,but he WANTED to kill him. Shortly Gordon and Batman arrived and Edward watched from a far. He then (unfortunately) saw Dents death (becoming instantly angry that Batman has robbed him off his chance at revenge),and also heard the coverup plan,between Batman and Gordon!!! Edward left with full knowledge of everything!!!

[Rodrigo90]

Ofcourse Edward does eventually find out who Batman is and his new motto in life is...

"Knowledge is power".

But what drives him to become a criminal? My idea is for him to deceive everybody for the sake of his plot. He tells Batman that its about who is the most intelligent between them (In truth its to see who is the better detective out the two). Riddler becomes a criminal as he thinks its the only way for Batman to take notice proper notice. Why? Between the time of TDK and 3,Edward was seriously cracking up and his obsession about riddles and puzzles came back. He wants Batman to capture him,but first wants to see if he is intellectually capable of understanding why. He puts Batman through complex puzzles,but also leaves subtle hints of his true motives. He wants Batman to get into his head,as Edward believes hes the only one who can help him. His suave and egotistical personality is just a clever rouse,that he hopes Batman will see through,including other things. He wants knowledge about himself.

[Rodrigo90]

His costume? A black suit. A fedora hat,not bowler. And an olive green overcoat. He has riddles written in words and question marks all over his coat. They symbolise the mystery he is to himself and too others. His final riddle to Batman?

"What Is Reason Behind The Enigma Of The Riddler?"

Whew,Now Im off to bed,lol.

[Crook]

You do know you could've typed that all up in one post, don't you?

[Rodrigo90]

You do know you could've typed that all up in one post, don't you?

Im on my PS3,it doesnt let you write loads down,lol.

[Arsh]

Im on my PS3,it doesnt let you write loads down,lol.

Couldn't you have waited until you'd gotten to a PC?

[Jolly C.]

Lol

[Rodrigo90]

Couldn't you have waited until you'd gotten to a PC?

If I did that my short term memory loss wouldve ****** things up for me.:woot:

Forgot to mention.

Riddler doesnt kill citizens. He blackmails the Mayor to bring in a team of experts to hunt both himself and Batman, personaly handpicked. Why? Its supposed to be about him testing them, to see if they are "smart enough to beat him". But in truth,they are just used as pawns,his real target is Gordon. Riddler wants revenge on him for setting him up those years ago,this rubs off onto his idea to frame Bruce Wayne for the (apparent) murder of Coleman Reese.

[ALittlePush]

Your idea in itself is good and the majority of it is plausible, however, it does feel like you're trying to force a backstory for Riddler behind the scenes of the other movies when there isn't one.

The bits I dislike the most is the waiting in the shadows and overhearing the coverup plot and giving the Joker the idea to blow up Rachel. Those bits just feel a bit too contrived. You're introducing what is essentially a new character into the franchise and rather than showing any character development into why he does the things he does, you seem to be going the "he was there all along, you just didn't see him" route. In doing so this actually weakens the Riddler character and those around him.


When the discussion for the demise of Harvey come about,Edward calmly walked up to Joker and said
"I have a good idea" That idea which the Joker liked so much, resulted in the death or Rachel and the scarring of Dent.

This actually takes something away from the Joker character. Firstly, I was under the assumption in TDK that once the mob hired the Joker, they just let him do his own thing so I doubt there would have been a “discussion”. Secondly, if anyone had walked up to the Joker and even suggested to tell him what to do, I imagine he would have put a bullet through their brain. So for the Joker to listen to the Riddler, agree with him and the carry out the plan seems a bit weak on the Joker’s part IMO.

Edward tracks Harvey and follows him to where Rachel died. He was ready to open fire and kill Dent,but he couldn't. He could NOT bring himself to kill the man who ruined his life,that caused hell for him,by his own hand,but he WANTED to kill him. Shortly Gordon and Batman arrived and Edward watched from a far. He then (unfortunately) saw Dents death (becoming instantly angry that Batman has robbed him off his chance at revenge),and also heard the coverup plan,between Batman and Gordon!!! Edward left with full knowledge of everything!!!

This could have actually worked had Riddler been a character in TDK. However, seeing as he wasn’t, it just feels that you put him there so that he can have the knowledge for when he actually appears. The "he was there all along, you just didn't see him" route didn’t work out well in Spiderman 3 and I doubt it would work out well in Batman 3.

His costume? A black suit. A fedora hat,not bowler. And an olive green overcoat. He has riddles written in words and question marks all over his coat. They symbolise the mystery he is to himself and too others. His final riddle to Batman?
"What Is Reason Behind The Enigma Of The Riddler?"

If he went out wearing that coat in reality, he would be spotted and arrested in no time. If no one noticed him, it would be like superman running out into a packed street and tearing open his shirt to reveal the big S with no one batting an eyelid. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Saying that, he might get away with it so long as he avoids people whilst wearing the coat. I just think the Riddler would be more subtle.

Overall, your idea has some good points just don't go the "he was there, you just didn't see him" route.

[Jolly C.]

Plus Nolans style consists on not lingering over the previous movie, as in he focuses on making the movie independent from the others. For example people could have went without seeing BB and come into the DK and know exactly whats going on. As ALittlePush said above the whole "he was there, you just didn't see him" route doesnt really work too well.

[Jolly C.]

Plus Nolans style consists on not lingering over the previous movie, as in he focuses on making the movie independent from the others. For example people could have went without seeing BB and come into the DK and know exactly whats going on. As ALittlePush said above the whole "he was there, you just didn't see him" route doesnt really work too well.

[Doc Holliday]

His costume? A black suit. A fedora hat,not bowler. And an olive green overcoat. He has riddles written in words and question marks all over his coat. They symbolise the mystery he is to himself and too others. His final riddle to Batman?

"What Is Reason Behind The Enigma Of The Riddler?"

Whew,Now Im off to bed,lol.

Ew. First, the bowler is quintessential Riddler. You don't change stuff like that. Especially not to something as similar as a fedora.

The green overcoat might work, but not with the riddles and question marks. That is highly unrealistic. As someone already said, he would be arrested in a heartbeat if he had something like that. The most you could do with question marks would be one on the hat or the tie. Something subtle.

As for this "final riddle," the only way that would matter would be if Batman somehow created the Riddler. Riddler's questions are never arbitrary. Though they may seem to be out of left field, they are extremely deliberate. And if Batman created Riddler, why don't we just go ahead and give him "The Box" and let him start doing that whole "brain drain" routine again?

[Two-Face]

A man puts make -up to look like a clown, a man burned by acid or a man dressed up as a bat. Sure those are realistic.

[S_H_F_4839]

His costume? A black suit. A fedora hat,not bowler. And an olive green overcoat. He has riddles written in words and question marks all over his coat. They symbolise the mystery he is to himself and too others. His final riddle to Batman?

"What Is Reason Behind The Enigma Of The Riddler?"

Whew,Now Im off to bed,lol.

I could actually see the coat working as long as it is reversable where if he puts it on inside out its a different color. maybe even be thats how he loses the cops and batman at one point in time turning the coat inside out and dropping the hat and running down a subway station.

I agree a little push about the idea though, the im here but you didnt see me just would not fly in movies anymore, I hate to rip off a good line, but nolan has changed things forever theres no going back, i mean that might have worked back when the first xmen came out but not anymore.

[Rodrigo90]

Well. I believe,since the story about Batman being wanted for murder is passing onto the next,why not another story? Its essentialy an idea to wrap up Nolans franchise. 3 is using TDK as a pillar to support it,I just took advantage of that.

I understand that the whole "he was there, but you didnt see him" thing isnt popular,but it works wit the story and if I may say...it has a better taste than Sandmans reason of appearance. Riddler was there,sucking up knowledge of things, how they work and gaining knowledge of what he shouldnt and he uses this as weapons. Like his character,he is virutally unoticeable,but that is about to change. It works with unlocking the mystery of his life through the course of the movie,for the characters and viewers.
Joker likes sadistic way of thinking and I think the whole deathtrap would be Riddlers idea. But its Jokers idea to switch the adressess,causing hurt and pain for Batman,though its not essential to me really.

[GaiusBaltar]

A man puts make -up to look like a clown, a man burned by acid or a man dressed up as a bat. Sure those are realistic.

Hmmmm... yeah, they are. You know, because "realistic" = "plausible", not "probable".

[WOWSERS]

Hi. Wow,to Rodrigo90. I absolutely love your ideas,they are really good. Even though the same thing was sorta done with Sandman in Spiderman 3,I kinda like that idea of him being there but you dont see him,it sounds better than the Sandman explanation.

All in all,you have great ideas for a new Riddler. I was kind of skeptical about his real personality from the comics being a facade in the movie,but thats a nice new spin for its reason. Great ideas man.

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler's appearance is inspired by Guy Pearce in Memento. They both have things scrawled across them,that reflects their damaged minds,their psychosis to be exact. In Riddlers case,question marks and riddles scrawled across his olive green overcoat. The costume is basically like a detectives,cause he COULD have been one. Detectives wear Fedora's,not Bowler hats.

Riddler was created by two people. Gordon and Batman. Gordon framed him and he cracked up in prison. He becomes a criminal,because he believes Batman is the only one who will help him uncover the question that has been haunting him for years.

Riddler doesnt always appear wearing his costume. He appears as a regular citizen,whenever Batman is about, doing one of his challenges.

[Rodrigo90]

OK. You probably wont believe me. But I came up with the idea of Riddler only being heard on the phone before AA VG. I was inspired by Kiefer Sutherland in Phonebooth and Ghostface in Scream. So you mainly hear him, rather than see him.

Also,I need Riddler to have connections to the Mob. Cause with Maroni out of commission,his businesses are up for takeover. Riddler gains possession of a drug factory and forms an alliance with the Penguin to run it. He uses Penguins men cause they dont know who he really is. He also plants deathtraps in Arkham Asylum and bomb in Falcone's cell,which Batman must stop, Riddler also lures Gordon into a trap,which he is chased by a knife weilding Zsaz.

Thank You WOWSERS, I appreciate that.

[ALittlePush]

Also,I need Riddler to have connections to the Mob. Cause with Maroni out of commission,his businesses are up for takeover. Riddler gains possession of a drug factory and forms an alliance with the Penguin to run it. He uses Penguins men cause they dont know who he really is. He also plants deathtraps in Arkham Asylum and bomb in Falcone's cell,which Batman must stop, Riddler also lures Gordon into a trap,which he is chased by a knife weilding Zsaz.

Riddler can still have connections to the mob. It's just the "there all along, you just didn't see him" route when introducing a new character just feels a little bit of a letdown IMO.

[ALittlePush]

Riddler's appearance is inspired by Guy Pearce in Memento. They both have things scrawled across them,that reflects their damaged minds,their psychosis to be exact. In Riddlers case,question marks and riddles scrawled across his olive green overcoat.

Wouldn't the general audience go "that's just like Memento"?

Riddler doesnt always appear wearing his costume. He appears as a regular citizen,whenever Batman is about, doing one of his challenges.

I really liked your idea about Riddler appearing at each scene in disguise.

[Rodrigo90]

The whole thing about him knowing Harvey's coverup was going to be the main threat. Threatening what Batman believes in and trying to uphold for the best interests of Gotham City.

But I guess I can cut the idea that Riddler was there and let him do his detective work to figure it out.

[Rodrigo90]

Wouldn't the general audience go "that's just like Memento"?

Guy had things tattooed on his body to help him remember. Riddler has riddles and question marks painted on his jacket to symbolise the mystery that he is to himself and to others.

Its also a deliberate clue to help Batman progress. Cause Riddler WANTS Batman to succeed, but wants him gradually understand this.

[Happy Jack]

Hmmmm... yeah, they are. You know, because "realistic" = "plausible", not "probable".
The basic concepts are plausible, yes. But the way in which they are portrayed in the story is inherently unrealistic, because they are too close to their fictitious comic book counterparts. What Nolan has done with the characters (and with Gotham as a whole) is make them appear close to the real world by using pseudo-scientific explanations and aesthetic changes and such, but as they are the characters can never be truly realistic.

[GaiusBaltar]

the way in which they are portrayed in the story is inherently unrealistic, because they are too close to their fictitious comic book counterparts.

I can't follow your logic here. Comics are not inherently unrealistic. If movie Bruce wears suits, is that unrealistic because comics Bruce wears them too?

[Happy Jack]

I can't follow your logic here. Comics are not inherently unrealistic. If movie Bruce wears suits, is that unrealistic because comics Bruce wears them too?
I meant the characters in the comics. Batman was born in the comics as a character that could not fully exist in the real world, and unless you change a majority of his elements (which would basically not make him Batman) he can never exist in the real world. I'm talking about the fact that Batman is never caught or murdered, his equipment, the obvious stuff.

[GaiusBaltar]

Maybe we're talking about "realism" in two different senses. I'm talking about it as opposed to fantasy/sci-fi, and you are talking about probability. And you would be right to. Every story that deals with many high stakes and improbable outcomes is unrealistic then. But it's not because these bat-films derive from comic books. It's just that 99% of action films are definitely unrealistic. But Nolan has pushed the realism angle farther than anyone else before him, and set the quality bar quite high by doing so. In my world, if something works, keep doing it. That leaves room for sci-fi-ish stuff such as the microwave emitter and the sonar.

But the one things Nolan CANNOT lose sight of when it comes to realism, is motivations. Thin motivations are the principal ingredient of bad writing, especially when it comes to characterizations. And, as such, many of his characters often resemble real people, except rare ocassions. The moment a drastic change is made to that, the quality of the franchise will drop.

[Rodrigo90]

Edit

[Rodrigo90]

I like the Fed idea,but may I give my own spin?

I keep Riddler's origin from the last page and his motive...BUT,I cut the story about him being buddies with Joker,Maroni and cut the story about him finding out about Harvey's coverup.

So after Batman has been wanted for murder. Here's my idea. With Bruce posing as Matches Malone,he is no longer Batman. Bruce is on the case of trying to takedown a new mob boss,Oswald Cobblepot. But things go wrong after a tipoff,and Penguin escapes. Bruce manages to escape,and fortunately convincing people that he was a cop. That same night,the GCPD is attacked and everybody is led to believe that it was Batman.
This prompts the FBI to announce their involvement with GCPD to track Batman down and send 5 of their best Agents to Gotham. However,one of the Agents is captured and killed by the Riddler and he assumes his identity,ensuring he knows exactly what the Feds have planned for Batman,as he has plans,AND for Bruce Wayne too...

[Rodrigo90]

When dealing with Batman and Penguin,Riddler assumes his disguise. A dark Green suit,his Psychosis jacket (Riddles and questions marks written across) and he changes his personality to the "Im much smarter than you" gimick.
To ensure his safety of identity,he wears a ginger wig, dark sunglasses, carries a cain and bears a fake limp. But as I said,he wants Batman to see past his facade and help understand his damaged mind.

Riddler forms an alliance with Penguin (As it was he who gave him the tipoff about Bruce) and Penguin supplies Riddler with weapons,men and more advanced items for his deathtraps,intended for the FBI, Gordon and Batman,though with Batman he doesnt really want to kill him,just got to give the impression.

Ofcourse Riddler knows who Batman is. So understandably Bruce believes its Coleman Reese,but soon he is at the center of suspected murder of Reese investigation led by Batman hater,Det Harvey Bullock.

[ALittlePush]

Much better, Rodrigo90.

I especially like the idea of the Riddler killing one of the agents then assuming his identity.

[Rodrigo90]

Much better, Rodrigo90.

I especially like the idea of the Riddler killing one of the agents then assuming his identity.

Thank you:yay:

[Jolly C.]

Rodrigo90 muuuuch better! I might want to make a suggestion for some things. First off Im trying to come up with a good concept for the riddlers outfit and such because Im drawing up a picture of his appearance and I read your story ideas and came across the jacket idea and I thought up an idea...why not just write the riddles in the shape of a question mark that way it combines the two aspects??? And I love the idea for Edward to kidnap the FBI agent however I thought it would be good to use the original agent in the story maybe have him in a deathtrap that batman has to solve to save him or something like that....anyways i like where your heads at with the story.

[Mr. Earle]

So the Riddler doesnt give riddles about the location of his next heist but he steals identinties?

[Rodrigo90]

I thought up an idea...why not just write the riddles in the shape of a question mark that way it combines the two aspects???.

I absolutely love that idea,good thinking, and thank you for the compliments.

Mr. Earle. Riddler does give messages to his next attack. I had the idea of him talking to Batman through the communicator in his mask,cause he manages to steal Wayne Enterprises technology and weapons for Penguin. He even puts poor old Lucius in a deathtrap!

He will do anything to help advance his plot,even assuming the identity of another. Its a contrast to Batman becoming Matches Malone. Bruce knows that he has 3 identities. The real him,the Playboy side to the public,and of course,Batman. He then realises the Riddler has 3 as well. The Riddler personality,the agent personality and the real Edward Nashton. This helps Batman get into Riddlers mind,which is exactly what he wants.

[Jolly C.]

The Riddler would have to give out some sort or riddle as to where he's attacking next because he has to give batman a fair chance of stopping him.

Thanks Rodrigo90 and no problem...I was wondering whether the Riddler would be wearing a coat similiar to the Jokers? And what else would be included in his costume? I was thinking he could gradually change his outfit throughout the story giving that sort of aspect that Edward Nashton/Nigma is becoming closer and closer to the Riddler persona.

[Rodrigo90]

My initial idea was to have Riddler leave riddles and,that were clues to his next crime,but also subtle hints to what he's really after, closure on the question thats driving him mad,basically "What is the matter with me?". But I think as the movie progresses,we see him become more and more obsessed with his Riddler persona,thus abandoning his identity as the Agent and forgetting his real motive, He loses sight of who he is and what he was really after in the place.

But Batman finally understands what it is crime spree has all been about. He has a mental disorder,obsessive compulsive disorder,but cant quite see or understand it. He was obsessed with that question that drove him mad. Obsessed with riddles and puzzles that has become his calling card,and clear evidence,he has now become obsessed with the Riddler identity.

So Riddlers facade,has now become his real personality and he has become a real danger,which he now no longer can control.

[Rodrigo90]

So Batman's only hope is that he has been paying full attention to Riddler's hints of trying to get into his mind. Cause eventually when Batman confronts Edward,its not simply knocking him out and saving the day. Batman wants to give Riddler the answer to his main riddle,before he went of the rails,in an attempt to bring him back to sanity and help him. Its a cry for help really,but the Riddler is still the evil genius and whos to say he will get properly cured or he even wants to get cured anymore,thus this will chillinglly erase his tragic side and he has now fully embraced his Riddler personality and has become the monster he didnt want to be,but his obsession has taken full control over.

[Rodrigo90]

So Batman's only hope is that he has been paying full attention to Riddler's hints of trying to get into his mind. Cause eventually when Batman confronts Edward,its not simply knocking him out and saving the day.

Batman when he confronts Riddler WANTS to give him what he originally wanted. Batman hopes that if he tries to give Riddler the answer to his final riddle,maybe it will revert him back to sanity and end his Riddler obsession.
Its a cry for help really,but the Riddler personality is still the evil genius, hell bent on causing as much problems as he can in a test to see if Batman is smart enough to catch him.

But whos to say he will get properly cured or he even wants to get cured anymore? This will chillinglly erase his tragic side and he has now fully embraced his Riddler personality and has become the monster he never intended to be forever,but his obsession has taken full control over that. It might or might not be too late for him. Batman doesnt want Riddler to suffer the same fate as Harvey.

[Rodrigo90]

For his Riddler costume,cause it is a disguise,a total change of himself. An olive green fedora hat. A ginger wig. Sunglasses. Emerald jacket. Black Shirt. Emerald tie. Black suit pants. Then an olive green overcoat,as suggested by Jolly C,with riddles written in words going across the jacket in the shapes of question marks. He also carries a cain and puts on a fake limp. His overcoat would be a cut above the knee,rather than below (So it isnt similar to Jokers).

The riddles on the his jacket should be ones used in his challenges and when Batman solves one, Riddler cleans it off.

As he slowly loses himself to the Riddler identity,he dyes his hair red. Loses his jacket, shirt and tie,but keeps his overcoat on. Also writing his main and final riddle in black and green shaped question mark on his exposed chest and stomach.
Maybe a chilling scene where he deliberately injures his leg,so that his fake limp becomes a real one. A disturbing product of his mental illness,as it worsens.

[Rodrigo90]

I think Riddler should find out about Harvey's coverup. He contacts Batman and pushes him with questions,but Batman deflects them. But Riddler finds out that the people murdered were involved with Harvey's fiance's death and his scaring and the investigation (stalking) into Batman, Riddler knows that he wouldnt kill. So Riddler uses this as his main threat.

"If you dont play along,not only will I kill innocent people, I will expose your true identity and tell EVERYBODY the truth about Harvey Dent...He was no better than the scum he put away".

Jokers motto was "Why so serious?" I think Riddlers should be "Knowledge is power".

[Ace of Knaves]

Agent Nashton should have a series of interviews with Joker. Joker eventually tells him the truth about Harvey.

[Harleen Quinzel]

Okay, so I really like the Riddler and all, one of my favorite villians and whatnot, but I don't think he should be the next villian. To me, he is alot like the Joker, more so than any other villian, and it would feel a little boring to have someone similar.

[Jolly C.]

Their should be more villians in this next movie, probably 3 at the most so that people dont linger on just the riddler and batman but batman and other villains as well.

[Ace of Knaves]

Okay, so I really like the Riddler and all, one of my favorite villians and whatnot, but I don't think he should be the next villian. To me, he is alot like the Joker, more so than any other villian, and it would feel a little boring to have someone similar.

Ehh Riddler isn't really anything like Joker.

[Jolly C.]

The only thing thats really simular is their outfits, but they are different villains entirely, but they do have characteristics thatmake them seem the same.

[Nightwing]

Jokers motto was "Why so serious?" I think Riddlers should be "Knowledge is power".
I can see this. The same way Joker didn't care about money in TDK by saying "All you care about is money. This town deserves a better class of criminal. And I'm gonna give it to 'em." Riddler's could be along the lines of "Money isn't power..Money just gets you what you want. Knowledge..Knowledge is true power." And constantly having his need for attention.

[Jolly C.]

that can work pretty well ^

[Rodrigo90]

Absolutely. I think Riddler's knowledge of things should be a scary thing about him. What he chooses to do with the knowledge he already possesses and his chilling search for more. When Batman asks him what he wants,he simply replies "Knowledge and answers". So the journey is about getting into the mind of The Riddler and trying understand what knowledge and answers he is seeking. Cause he wont simply tell Batman what the question is,its a test to see if Batman is smart enough to figure what is going on and if he fails without the right answer,Riddler will unleash the knowledge he has, which will destroy everything Batman is trying to uphold.

He should be a Fed. But to avoid contradiction with The Gotham Times,he shouldnt start out as one,but steal the identity of an Agent for his own purposes.

Riddler should also fit booby traps to the victims,but since NOTHING like Saw will used,I was thinking of strapping bombs to them and will explode if attempts are made to remove it without defusing it first.

[Jordacar]

^Ooooh, Hurt Locker action, me likey!

[Rodrigo90]

Idea for The Fed. Riddler orchestrates an attack on the GCPD and Batman's symbol is a burning flame on the opposite site of the building. FBI become involved.

Riddler assumes the alias of Agent Joseph Morrison from the NYC Bereau and the only Agent from NYC to work at Gotham (Which is why he chose him). He ambushed and captured the real Agent Morrison on route to Gotham and stole his proof of identification and forges it to match his personal details. Riddler gains access into the FBI website and manages to trace Morrison's personal page. He then duplicates the page and puts his own photo and basic details on,while also making sure if Morrisons REAL page is accessed by a computer in Gotham City,the URL will secretly redirect to the fake URL he created,thus fooling everybody if accessed by FBI Agents in the region to check him out (If needed). The FBI have no idea what he has done and when he (Riddler as Agent Morrison) arrives at the GCPD,he simply tells them,"Forgive me for the lateness of my arrival".

[Pythagoras]

I think Riddler should be a Fed not steal the identity of one.

[Rodrigo90]

I think Riddler should be a Fed not steal the identity of one.

It'll just contradict what they've created in The Gotham Times,

So Im creating a solution so that it wont contradict and will be suitable.

Besides,Im using the Zodiac Killer as inspiration. Both go out their way to outsmart the Police and FBI,but Riddler's reason is different from Zodiac's (but its still to get a kick from the act).

[ALittlePush]

The general audience is unaware of the Gotham Times bit. So if Riddler were to be a fed, it wouldn't matter to them at all.

[Rodrigo90]

Thats true to the general audience,but thousands who happen to know Edward in The Gotham Times will probably complain.

I think the executives have made up their minds that he wont be a Fed if they included him in the Viral Marketing,which they know lots of people will follow and know all the details about. I may be wrong,but Im pretty certain he wont be a Fed,which is a shame cause its a brilliant idea. But is it vitally important that he is? Ive read lots of other great ideas that I see realisticlly working more so than the Fed scenario. I loved him being a Fed idea,but I think'll it work more if he assumed the identity of one and things pick up from that. You can still have ANY origin that you want from Riddler,but it'll 100% still work if he steals the identity of a Fed,of course itll change his motives a little and the storyline,but that can easily be sorted to the situation.

[GaiusBaltar]

Mark my words, if Nolan thinks any given route fits his interests for the franchise, thematically or plot-wise, and that route happens to contradict something in the Gotham Times... he will print a copy of the GT and will wipe his ass with it.

[RachelDawes]

Absolutely. I think Riddler's knowledge of things should be a scary thing about him. What he chooses to do with the knowledge he already possesses and his chilling search for more. When Batman asks him what he wants,he simply replies "Knowledge and answers". So the journey is about getting into the mind of The Riddler and trying understand what knowledge and answers he is seeking. Cause he wont simply tell Batman what the question is,its a test to see if Batman is smart enough to figure what is going on and if he fails without the right answer,Riddler will unleash the knowledge he has, which will destroy everything Batman is trying to uphold.

He should be a Fed. But to avoid contradiction with The Gotham Times,he shouldnt start out as one,but steal the identity of an Agent for his own purposes.

Riddler should also fit booby traps to the victims,but since NOTHING like Saw will used,I was thinking of strapping bombs to them and will explode if attempts are made to remove it without defusing it first.

What profession did Nashton claim in the Gotham Times?

[Happy Jack]

I think the executives have made up their minds that he wont be a Fed if they included him in the Viral Marketing,which they know lots of people will follow and know all the details about. I may be wrong,but Im pretty certain he wont be a Fed,which is a shame cause its a brilliant idea.
There is no script for Batman 3, let alone one that includes Riddler. How are the executives going alter a character that hasn't even been written yet? Not only that, but the Gotham Times was an invention of the viral marketing company, it wasn't like Nolan and co. wrote the friggin' thing themselves. It's not the Gospel, and the fact that Nashton was mentioned in it at all was nothing more than an Easter egg.

[Doctor Who]

I'm gonna give this a whirl: a whole new concept of Riddler to make and fill in blanks. LOL I've had this idea from what I've seen and rather do see in this next interpretation of Riddler. The idea of Edward wearing a mask to conceal his identity from everyone. But not in the aspect of Batman, rather than fear. I propose Riddler not only has OCD, but has OCD being a semi affect from having Asperger syndrome. If you think about it, Riddler has never been really public or face to face with people when performing puzzling enygmas of terror; he's always done such through television, computers, and other technological advantages. Sometimes he confronts people in person like Batman, but other than that he's been rather private. I think having mask would show that he's afraid to socialize in person and this possible obsessive compulsive disorder and asperger syndrome would develop some answers why he's obsessed with only a few selected things like riddles, and also why he may have some immature tendancies. Kind of like a super genius who can't even tie his own shoes; a severe mentally unstable like Albert Einstine. :yay:

[Rodrigo90]

Please forgive me,for being such a terrible person,cause of actually thinking outside the box and believing he wont be a Fed,and TRYING to come up with a solution to that possibility...If I tell you where I live are you going to come round and beat me up for not going for the idea?:woot:

The script hasnt been wrote,so Riddler might be actually be, in Nolans mind, a Wayne Enterprises Scientist, Lucius Fox's son (Eddie Murphy), a PI,a Detective,a Kindergarten Teacher as far as we know.

So dont get your hopes up and shoot other ideas and possibilities down just yet.

[GaiusBaltar]

We're just saying that the Fed route is ok as it is, there's no need to add more contrived ideas that ultimately lead to the same place but, as you said: "it'll change his motives a little and the storyline." It's a bit gratuitous and doesn't add anything from a thematical standpoint.

[Rodrigo90]

I never set out to say "it should be like this",I guess I got a bit carried away. I just took the brilliant Fed idea and shared it to my own idea. Im not going tell you what you should or should not like,or how it should be like. Im going a bit too far with that,so I'll give you my full proposal of the 3rd movie idea and you can see what Ive been trying to get at.

But all Im saying is,give something else a chance,whatever it may be, before its immediately condemned in favour of something else that might not happen.

[GaiusBaltar]

Listen, one idea was criticized. That doesn't mean "fed supporters" aren't open to other ideas.

Having said that, your idea is significantly better thant the constant and unsavory "Zodiac Riddler" buzz. But yeah, maybe you should present it in a more unified and clearer form. I promise I'll read it, no matter how long it is.

[Rodrigo90]

Edit

[ALittlePush]

Someone on fanfiction.com had the idea that Nashton is a detective and that the name "Riddler" is a nickname because he is so good at solving the cases he is given. Then Joker gets a hold of him and gives him scars in the shape of question marks using a crowbar and a bunsen burner. Nashton then seems to go a little bit mad and joins up with Scarecrow and Joker although it is implied that it could all just be a pretence.

[Pythagoras]

Someone on fanfiction.com had the idea that Nashton is a detective and that the name "Riddler" is a nickname because he is so good at solving the cases he is given. Then Joker gets a hold of him and gives him scars in the shape of question marks using a crowbar and a bunsen burner. Nashton then seems to go a little bit mad and joins up with Scarecrow and Joker although it is implied that it could all just be a pretence.

That should never happen in the film.

[Rodrigo90]

Listen, one idea was criticized. That doesn't mean "fed supporters" aren't open to other ideas.

Having said that, your idea is significantly better thant the constant and unsavory "Zodiac Riddler" buzz. But yeah, maybe you should present it in a more unified and clearer form. I promise I'll read it, no matter how long it is.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Im not opposed to the Fed idea. I guess I lash at it,because I cant seem to work into my story,lol. I have my mind set on the idea that he cracks up in prison and his motive and style just dont work because he is a Fed, There are limitations on that,which I cant do. So, I thought the easy solution is for him to be devious and just steal the identity of a Fed so he can use and manipulate the FBI's resources and dispatch their Agents.

Ive posted the beginning in Where does the story go from here?,if you like to read it.:yay:

[Rodrigo90]

Double Post

[Rodrigo90]

Heres the plot of Batman 3 if Riddler is a Fed. Obsessed FBI Agent creates traps and an alter ego (for some reason) to capture Batman. He accidentally kills somebody,goes insane and permanently becomes his alter ego. Simple,but brilliant.

Heres my plot, isnt a Fed. Obsessed P.I. Obsesses over Batman and discovers his identity before 3 begins. He used to be a highly intelligent,but crooked cop (longing to be a detective and pleased at his high status),but was set up by Gordon and sentenced to 3 years in prison. During that time,he cracked up and became obsessed with riddles and puzzles,to keep his mind preoccupied. 3 years passed and he was released,but was never the same again. He set up a private investigation firm,at the time Batman was already around and Joker was on the upcoming. Edward began to see psychiatrists,as he wasnt coping well. But they werent giving him "the right answers" to his questions. Edward was soon falling apart.

[Rodrigo90]

He then realised the only other man who understood obsession better than any psychiatrist was Batman. But he knew Batman wasnt going to understand the sheer complexity of his mind, unless he made him. During the events of 3. Edward began studying Batman at every angle and wanted to understand the knowledge of him,before any further action would be taken. Eventually he deducted that Batman was Bruce Wayne,but decided to keep that knowledge and use it in his quest. Edward decided to create an alter ego,in hopes of getting Batman's full attention...by becoming what Batman hates. His fascination (obsession) with riddles and puzzles was to become his image. As he identified himself as a complex riddle,that MUST be solved by Batman,by any means necessary. so that Edward could finally gain the knowledge of what he desires most...himself.

But his alter ego (the Riddler) personality gradually begins to take over his mind,until he loses himself and becomes a real threat.

[Rodrigo90]

Also,the Fed idea may be great,but can it generate a strong captivating story? As I said their limitations on that.

What I can do,is have him steal the identity of an Agent, infiltrate the FBI headquarters,make a mockery of them without even knowing it, and abuse their resources. Cause he uses the FBIs vast intelligence to do a cyber battle with Batman. Of course he could still do that with being a Fed,but as I said about the Fed idea,its a little too simple for me. Also the plot is him hunting Batman as a Fed,but think of the drama you could have if he knew about it? Like,framing Bruce Wayne for murder, to make the challenge harder for him. Also could a Fed be trusted to make friends with a crime boss?

Many free reign opportunities if he wasnt a Fed,who didnt know who Batman was. Im not saying "dont like the Fed idea",but look for more interesting ideas as well as that. Dont just stick to 1 thing,thats all.:yay:

[Ardent15]

My ideas is that the Riddler could be portrayed as something of a twisted Social Darwinist who creates life-or-death situations for the people of Gotham (and for Batman) in a game of wits. The Social Darwinist aspect could be that he feels that only the "strongest"-intellectually or otherwise-are fit to live.

[GaiusBaltar]

Hey, that's a very interesting idea and I hope people talk about it. Since this is a better-suited thread, I'm putting here what I said to you back in the other thread.

The Riddler is the most wanted villain for the sequel, according to a poll in another thread of these boards. Coincidentally, he has been linked to some form of social darwinism more than once here: in a popular idea among many posters, the Riddler should be adapted with a twist into a very probable storyline of Batman being hunted by the authorities, and that twist makes Edward Nygma/Nashton an FBI agent leading a task force team fully bent on identifying and catching the Batman, now Gotham's public enemy number 1. That version of Nygma should be all about his intellectual superiority and how the Law (his side of the battle) is entitled to do anything to get the work done. His obsession and frustration with aprehending the Batman leads him to the most unorthodox methods: creating a fake criminal persona called the Riddler, fashioned after Gotham's emergent criminal freak movement, and using him to place deathtraps with Riddles with the objective of luring the Batman out and defeating him. Eventually Nygma goes mad and fully embraces the Riddler persona, fixated with beating the Batman at any cost.

Another more traditional route for the Riddler, also discussed here, involves him leaving large deathtraps that put many people in danger, taunting the Batman into a game of wits. Here the social darwinism angle is also quite feasible, since the Riddler that knowledge is power and he is just gaining the power he deserves and cleansing Gotham in the process, letting those who can't solve his riddles die in his traps, weeding out the imbeciles and ignorants he considers societies biggest restraints.

In any case, the next villain should posit some kind of ideology, and in implementing that ideology, along with his personal goals, he should put Batman and all of Gotham in danger. That is, after all, what Nolan's series have consistently been about.

[Rodrigo90]

Heres what I think. Riddler should wear his outfit,but just an olive coloured suit,nothing too zany. Black shirt,olive colured tie,with question marks he has painted on himself. Black gloves,a darkish green bowler and black shades. He speaks in a very calm,collected and confident manner,very certain of everything. A bit like how John Glover spoke in BTAS and Robert Englund in The Batman. Cause he's not too much into yet.

After he turns mad,he paints question marks on his suit in all different shapes,sizes and styles. His mannerisms become more hyperactive and wickedly sadistic,but he still manages to retain a cool and calm head,after buckets of sweat.

Towards the end as he deteriorates and obsesses further,he abandons what made him a gentleman,the shirt,tie and hat,but keeps his jacket and paints a large question mark on his abdomen.

[Jolly C.]

that actually sounds pretty well thought out i like it...it reminds me of the joker graphic novel's riddler at the end there...thatd be a good approach to his costume imo^

[Mister H.]

I'll barf if Nolan ever produces a Riddler complete with a green suit, green tie with question marks, a green bowler, and shades. I REALLY don't think that's going to happen.

[Rodrigo90]

I'll barf if Nolan ever produces a Riddler complete with a green suit, green tie with question marks, a green bowler, and shades. I REALLY don't think that's going to happen.

Not everyone can be satisfied. Most people want Riddler to appear almost identical to the comics,others dont. I dont see the bowler working at all,lol. If The Joker was giving a new punkish and realistic makeover,why cant Riddler? I think it just depends on what sort of character he will be.

The Fed characterisation. Starts of with somewhat of the classic look then he mentally deteriorates.

But I see Nolan doing something straight from Azzarello's interpretation,the punkish look. Fedora. Shades. Jacket,Jeans,Sneaks and a few question mark tattoos around his naval. I would like that look,but I say Azzarellos interp gets slightly mixed in with the main continuity Riddler look.

[Mister H.]

Not everyone can be satisfied. Most people want Riddler to appear almost identical to the comics,others dont. I dont see the bowler working at all,lol. If The Joker was giving a new punkish and realistic makeover,why cant Riddler? I think it just depends on what sort of character he will be.

The Fed characterisation. Starts of with somewhat of the classic look then he mentally deteriorates.

But I see Nolan doing something straight from Azzarello's interpretation,the punkish look. Fedora. Shades. Jacket,Jeans,Sneaks and a few question mark tattoos around his naval. I would like that look,but I say Azzarellos interp gets slightly mixed in with the main continuity Riddler look.

I just think Nolan would only portray Riddler as a criminal mastermind, and intelligent people don't normally dress anything like Azzarello's interpretation of the character.

I think of the Unibomber when I think of a Riddler in Nolan's Gotham. He'd be a mystery, much like the Batman, and for much of the film we'd just see police sketches based on eyewitness accounts. Maybe we'd catch glimpses of him doing surveillance in a black hoodie with dark sunglasses and then eventually get the big reveal, with him resembling a more "traditional" Riddler. How to do this is something I won't bother myself with, as that is Nolan's job, but I think it would be interesting to see him revealed as one of the "good guys"-- a fed, detective, private investigator. How he ends up in some kind of green garb with question marks is beyond me-- and I don't think he will. I think a question mark tattoo reveal, like Dollarhyde's in Red Dragon, would be pretty cool...

[Rodrigo90]

Heres the interp Im using in my story.

We are first introduced to Nashton in his home. He has a wife and a 10 year old daughter. He is a serious, straightforward man,but around his home are complex puzzles and games,he has a great love for things like that. Obsessivly trying to teach his daughter how to play chess and becomes annoyed if she gives up. He always tells her "Youre in it to win it". But Edward has a secret that only he and his wife know about,a mental illness, "obsessive compulsive disorder" and must take medication. If the truth were to come out,he would lose his job as a Fed. He shows the signs by doing things and having to finish them before anything else,many of his colleagues believe its Edwards dedication,in reality its his illness,but his medication suppresses that. Once he starts something,he cant stop and his mood deteriorates until he gains total satisfaction.

[ALittlePush]

Some ideas I had.

First Idea

Riddler is a newly promoted detective working under Commissioner Gordon. He has worked in the GCPD as a cop for eight years, and is a long time admirer of Gordon and his stand against corruption within the GCPD.
Riddler would respect Gordon and follow his orders without question. So when Riddler accidentally finds out that Gordon is working with Batman on the sly, he's going to feel betrayed. He's going to feel a little bit annoyed that the man who he's been inspired by and looked up to and admired for his honesty is lying to the whole city. So Riddler goes home, gets drunk, and begins to formulate a plan on how to expose his boss for the deceptive liar that he is.

He takes a pair of scissors and begins cutting letters from the newspaper to make a riddle. He then sends the riddle anonymously to Gordon as a warning that someone knows about him and Batman. When Gordon seemingly ignores the riddle, Riddler sends one to Gordon's wife, son and daughter which unsettles Gordon's wife. Gordon, unaware of Riddler's plan, then assigns Riddler to protect his family and find out who is sending the riddles. Gordon's son inadvertently reveals to Riddler exactly what happened at the end of TDK and how Batman is innocent. This revelation blows Riddler's whole world apart as Gordon's lies are bigger than he first thought. Riddler then decides to up his game and begins sending the riddles to various news outlets such as newspapers and news channels. When the riddles are aired on television, it draws Batman's attention. The Riddler becomes obsessed with trying to figure out why Batman would let himself be blamed for crimes he didn't commit.

Second Idea

Riddler would appear as Edward Nashton, an FBI agent who is very dedicated to his work, always gets his man, that sort of thing. He becomes frustrated about his failure to catch Batman so his methods become more and more unorthodox in order to lure Batman out. He becomes the Riddler as a trap for Batman. The Riddles are all to lead Batman to Nashton and his arrest. However, the more frustrated Nashton becomes, the more he gets into the Riddler role. He becomes so obsessed with catching Batman that the Riddler isn’t just a trap for Batman anymore but an actual threat to Gotham.

Third Idea

Riddler would appear predominately as Edward Nashton, a new detective in the MCU. He would be one of Gordon’s handpicked team alongside Stephens, Bullock, Montoya and a couple of others. He would be very quiet and meek, constantly dominated by his co-workers, not necessarily deliberately but because he feels he can’t say no to their requests such as doing some extra paper work etc. Basically he gets taken advantage of and it frustrates him, so he becomes the Riddler to prove that he isn’t a doormat and that he is smarter than them all.
The Riddler wouldn’t appear in the movie as such. The riddles would appear and Nashton would appear throughout the movie. He would only be revealed as the Riddler towards the end of the movie.


Which idea is better?

[Mister H.]

^ I like ideas one and two.

[finalrelief]

First one's good, I would give him a family or someone he cares about that get's badly hurt (accidently) and Batman appears to be the cause, which the Riddler would want to psychologically torture the batman worse than he felt, it would lead him to figuring out who Batman really is and draws him into a series of games/tests/riddles. I'd like a seven style, Jokeresque, Red Dragon type Riddler if that makes any sense at all. Dark, creepy, genius, interesting.

[Faramir]

^ All three are good, but I like two more by far. Thumbs up! Maybe you can talk about that one in greater detail.

[Rodrigo90]

Changing Riddler from a scientist into a Fed is far enough,without changing him into Jigsaw...just throw in the pig mask too. He doesnt need to be changed that much. Just the same,only with a realistic makeover.

IMO
Bowler Hat is gay...I like a black Fedora,or something similar.
A plain green suit with a question mark tie is boring. Id like him to have a nice smart green overcoat,with painted question marks on it...NOTHING wrong with that. There is no excuse why he cant wear it.
No Tonto Mask,or Elton John styled glasses...just black shades.

A plain, smart BLACK suit. Black hat and black shades. A dark Green Overcoat,with a few question marks painted on. Finally,keeping his Overcoat, but removing his jacket,shirt and tie and painting a huge black question mark on his exposed torso.

Not too different,or too much the same.

[Faramir]

What's so wrong about bowler hats? They didn't look gay in The Thomas Crown Affair. Introduce it properly and there we go, it can be a great display of the Riddler's insanity and sense of superiority. Basically you want Lee Bermejo's take, who thought the Riddler looked ridiculous and made him go all hipster. I'm not sure if that even matches the character we want. With Nolan's love for suits and elegance I'm not sure if we are prone to get hipster overcoats and converse shoes (yikes). Yes, there is something wrong with "a nice smart green overcoat with question marks painted on it"... first of all: what's so smart about that? The Riddler in "Joker" was a nerdy kid and Azzarello and Bermejo kept in mind he wasn't supposed to be threatening. You may want t make him look cool, but there was nothing crazy or menacing about him, not a damn thing. Make him more classic and contained, with glitches of restrained insanity, like Nolan's Jonathan Crane. He wore a suit and there was nothing wrong about that. If someone else is going to wear a suit, the Riddler could be a perfect candidate.

[Rodrigo90]

Joker wore an overcoat. Bowler Hats are too fruity. I think a more traditional hat would be better,like what people wore in the old days,I dont know the name.

Riddlers decent into madness shouldnt be immediate like Scarecrow or Joker. The guy has just become a criminal in order to take down Batman,he hasnt gone overboard. He has no plans to keep up his Riddler persona forever,but he does. He goes mad and throws away everything that made him hidden, mysterious and the reminders of his sanity,because he is now fully "The Riddler". So in sequels,we can perhaps see the green suit or something different.

He is in all black suit,to keep his identity hidden. Wearing a green overcoat,with question marks on it to subtly show his mark,like the tie does. He goes mad,doesnt care about his mysterious black suit anymore and wears or does something to make him stand out further.

[Faramir]

Joker wore an overcoat. Bowler Hats are too fruity. I think a more traditional hat would be better,like what people wore in the old days,I dont know the name.You mean a Fedora hat and at least the bowler hat would get some kind of explanation while also being faithful to the comics, instead of the fedora, who would be included just because some people think it looks cool again.The Joker wore an overcoat over a suit... you're suggesting an overcoat over a naked torso. You can understand where my concerns come from.Riddlers decent into madness shouldnt be immediate like Scarecrow or Joker. The guy has just become a criminal in order to take down Batman,he hasnt gone overboard. He has no plans to keep up his Riddler persona forever,but he does. He goes mad and throws away everything that made him hidden, mysterious and the reminders of his sanity,because he is now fully "The Riddler". So in sequels,we can perhaps see the green suit or something different.Why in the sequels? Why not in the next movie already? IF the Riddler is making it up, why not have him do stuff that even he considers fruity AT FIRST, like the bowler hat?Sanity and insanity should have nothing to do with fashion changes but with actions and intentions. The Joker dressed like he did because he had a reason for it. I cannot fathom a "pre-Riddler" Edward, or a full-blown Riddler for that matter, that would decide without deeper motive to dress like you're saying.

[Ace of Knaves]

I really like the Fed idea... :awesome:

[Rodrigo90]

In terms of psychology,especially in Riddlers case. He suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder,he acts on impulse and cant change his mind until satisfaction is met. His obsession must be purged,or it keeps getting worse.

So he just goes through different stages until the end,but Im sure he will retain his natural look again.

He will become more and more psychologicaly damaged as the movie continues,so his madness will show through his appearance. He cant comprehend his psychological changes at first and loses himself,but his head becomes clear at the end

[Jordacar]

He could have the bowler hat. I mean, look what Anton Chigurh did for the man-bob.

[spiderfan970]

Here's your Riddler right here at 1:40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEWQ3AXrgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEWQ3AXrgI

[Rodrigo90]

Here is what I want his suit to be composed of

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/gs/black-suit-calvin-klein-0508-lg.jpg

http://www.delmonicohatter.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/AW07-Trilby-Blue-225X.jpg
http://www.worthyfashion.com/cw3/Assets/product_full/Armani437Black.jpg
http://www.purple-oval.co.uk/lg_images/Pretty_Green_Herringbone_Tweed_Overcoat%5B4%5D.jpg

I think this would make Riddler look sophisticated and a little rebellious. You could even fit one giant question mark down the middle of the coat.

[ALittlePush]

Part one of my Riddler idea.

With Batman still at large after a six month manhunt led by Commissioner Gordon, Edward Nashton of the FBI is called in to investigate. Nashton is renowned for being an extremely dedicated agent who always gets his man. Reading through various police reports and newspaper articles detailing Batman’s heroics and misdeeds, in order to learn more about his target, Nashton theorises that Batman may suffer from a hero complex. Nashton also questions Gordon over what happened the night Harvey Dent died and Batman’s involvement, summarising that it may have been a hero attempt gone wrong.

Nashton sets up an undercover sting operation of an armed mugging in an area where Batman has been spotted several times, rationalising that Batman will be sure to try and intervene to save the young couple. The sting operation takes place and Batman does not show up. Nashton is unaware that Gordon had warned Batman of the operation and is frustrated at Batman’s lack of an appearance, thinking that Batman has outsmarted him. Nashton begins to become obsessed with catching Batman, to prove that he is the smarter man after all.

Back at the MCU, a call comes through about a breakout at Arkham. A couple of high security inmates have escaped, including the Joker. Nashton believes that Joker’s escape may have been orchestrated by Batman in order for Batman to be called upon to save the day and once again be considered a hero. Nashton realises that Batman may have thought the armed mugging was too petty to bother with and that the best way to draw Batman’s attention is to present a big enough threat that Batman can “save” the city from. He creates the persona of the “Riddler”.

What do you think so far?

[Faramir]

Reading through various police reports and newspaper articles detailing Batman’s heroics and misdeeds, in order to learn more about his target, Nashton theorises that Batman may suffer from a hero complex. Nashton also questions Gordon over what happened the night Harvey Dent died and Batman’s involvement, summarising that it may have been a hero attempt gone wrong.I LOVE THIS!! Because, in essence, it is foreseeing what will happen later to Nashton... he will see his deathyl traps and the first innocent casualties as "heroic attempts (to catch Batman) gone wrong". And also, because he's assuming that Batman's not infallible and believes he is an unworthy opponent, unlike himself, who's never wrong. Brilliant.

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah. Good ideas ALittlePush. But what does it mean by a hero attempt gone wrong,who was trying to save who from what?:yay:

[Ryan]

Nolan didn't spend alot of time on the backdrop stories of Joke'sr and Scarecrow's, so I'm thinking he wouldn't spend an inordiant amount of time on the Riddler's. Also, didn't really spend alot time connecting events directly from Batman Begins to the Dark Knight. I think there will be some overlay from Dark knight (mob involvement, Batman clearing his name) but I wouldn't count on it being too linear.
I think Nolan will have his work cut out for him if he chooses the Riddler. He doesn't really have 'canon' type material to draw from for the character ala Joker and Two face. I'm really hoping that they don't do this "obsessed fed" idea, as I already felt I got the duality of the law idea with the Two face character.

[ALittlePush]

I LOVE THIS!! Because, in essence, it is foreseeing what will happen later to Nashton... he will see his deathyl traps and the first innocent casualties as "heroic attempts (to catch Batman) gone wrong". And also, because he's assuming that Batman's not infallible and believes he is an unworthy opponent, unlike himself, who's never wrong. Brilliant.

Thanks.:yay:

Yeah. Good ideas ALittlePush. But what does it mean by a hero attempt gone wrong,who was trying to save who from what?:yay:

Thanks. Nashton thinks that Batman may have kidnapped Gordon's family in order to then get the recognition for "saving" them. Dent turned up unexpectedly and surprised Batman. A struggle ensued between Dent and Batman which lead to Dent's death.

I'm really hoping that they don't do this "obsessed fed" idea, as I already felt I got the duality of the law idea with the Two face character.

I think it could work out quite well actually. Batman could see Nashton as another Harvey Dent- a good honest man driven to the brink of obsession by circumstances beyond their control. (In Nashton's case, by Batman evading him).

[Rodrigo90]

I like your ideas ALittlePush.

Im sufferering from writers block at the mo,lol.

[Ryan]

The biggest unresolved issue from The Dark Knight would be Batman's reputation. Why not have the Riddler as someone who knows what happened to Dent and the threatens to expose Batman and Gordon's involvement in the coverup....unless Batman leaves the mob alone. The mob always seems to be featured somehow in each movie.

[ALittlePush]

The biggest unresolved issue from The Dark Knight would be Batman's reputation. Why not have the Riddler as someone who knows what happened to Dent and the threatens to expose Batman and Gordon's involvement in the coverup....unless Batman leaves the mob alone. The mob always seems to be featured somehow in each movie.

How would the Riddler know what happened to Dent? He hasn't been introduced yet and I really dislike the "there all along, you just didn't see him" route.

[Faramir]

Batman tarnished his reputation so he could fight a more frightened mob while keeping Dent's work against them. To leave them alone would defeat all logic, he would rather reveal the whole thing than let the mafia do as they pleased. I'm all for the Fed idea. Seeing a good guy who upheld the Law turn bad is not the same as seeing an already bad guy using the Law to catch Batman and do evil stuff turn worse... into an over-the-top madman. Very different things.

[Ryan]

Good points I suppose. I figured the Riddler could have been like a journalist or somebody just plainly obsessed with the Batman phenomenon. I simply hate the "fed" idea. I'd rather they just have the Riddler already being the Riddler like they did with the Joker. They already had the good guy goes bad thing with Dent and they did it really well.
I simply stated the Riddler's motives would be in relation to the mob, as most of the villains so far have had dealings with them. I also don't want to see the whole "expose the identity of Batman" idea again. They've done that far too often in various shows and movies.
Creating a motive for the Riddler that would be both original and captivating would make or break the character.
My earlier idea would be that the Riddler perpetuates crimes all over Gotham and sets them up to look like Batman had done them. Thus forcing Batman to catch the Riddler and also clear his name. Not even sure if I like that idea either, but it does lead to a way for our hero to vindicate himself.

[Rodrigo90]

A part of the story Im writing is based on The Riddler kidnapping Coleman Reese and Det. Ramirez as they hold secrets. Batman CAN save them both,but if he does...Reese and Ramirez must reveal their secrets to the entire city,if they dont, Riddler will detonate multiple bombs placed around Gotham.

Batman is then offered a gun to kill them and if he does the secrets are safe and Gotham will clearly see he is a murderer.

This is Riddlers final act of revenge to outwit and defeat Batman and make HIM reveal the truth by his actions of refusing to kill them, eliminating everyones perception of Batmans unethical notion of "committing an evil act to preserve the greater good" created by Gordon and which Riddler was once inspired by,before going mad and committing his crimes for personal gratification.

[Faramir]

I simply hate the "fed" idea. I'd rather they just have the Riddler already being the Riddler like they did with the Joker. They already had the good guy goes bad thing with Dent and they did it really well.Nowhere has been implied that Edward would be a good guy. Just a guy that happens to be a Fed, but he can be as snotty, despicable and ruthless as anyone can be. His story just happens to be a story from abiding the Law to becoming a super-criminal. It's a story about how the bad guys can even come from within the system or be sanctioned by the people and the institutions, mirroring Batman's situation of being pursued as a public enemy. Also, it is unfair to think that just because an idea has been used before (the Riddler trying to solve the mystery of who's behind the cowl) it can be used again and improved upon with a better delivery... just because Batman tries to rescue people all the time doesn't mean it shouldn't be used again. It's also puzzling to see why would you have the Riddler repeat the angle of the Joker (just appearing out of nowhere, no origin whatsoever) but don't like the Fed idea because it is a repetition. I don't get the hate for the idea, not at all. There is not better motive for the Riddler than compete against the Batman in an intellectual play and try to figure out the biggest riddle of all. That is truly faithful.

[Rodrigo90]

I think Edward should have Cyber skills also. Using those skills to challenge Batman. Since he is a Fed,maybe hacking into the Pentagon and causing US Defense Missiles that target Russia, to set onto launch countdown and if Batman fails to stop it using the Batcomputer...Nuclear Annihilation. This is how far Riddler will go to see Batman defeated...causing the end of the world.

So Batman ends up saving the world and not just 1 city.

[Mister H.]

^ :facepalm:

[Rodrigo90]

^ :facepalm:

http://blackliberal.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/jerk-pic.jpg
:woot:

[Micah12345]

Watch nolan not even use riddler in the next movie lol.

[Ryan]

I honestly could see Nolan using someone else other then the Riddler for the next film.
Faramir-I'm totally in favour of them doing an "instant villain" like the Joker, over doing another Dent origin story because usually thats how the villains appear to us in tv, comics etc. You don't have to get the background story of Joker, Riddler, Penguin to understand them. Their actions speaks for themselvies. Its really only with Two Face/Dent or perhaps Catwoman that they constantly associate their backdrop story with their current actions....which is what I think makes them unique from the others.
Also with the fed idea, I'm doubting they'd spend the movie from the perspective of a bad guy hunting down Batman, rather then Batman hunting down the bad guy. Hate to keep bringing up the Seven reference, but that movie was excuted perfectly. The actions of John Doe were able to build the menace of the character and also express his intentions throughout the movie, with actually very little screen time at all. Only in the very end did it all become clear of his motives...kinda like a riddle. Do I want to see an exact repeat of that? No. But I do like the idea of the Riddler's riddles being the star of the show, over the actual Riddler himself. Quite a difference from the Joker, who is center stage all the time.
Just my opinion.

[Rodrigo90]

Thats what Im concerned about. I feel if Riddler was a Fed and we saw his origin and spiral into madness,it would overshadow the movie itself. Cause the plot just seems to be about Riddler. Even TDK,Harvey overshadowed things.

I would like Riddler to have a little bit of explanation,then be what he is.

Maybe have him work for a group of terrorists and they plan to heist Wayne Enterprises 30 billion fortune. Edward is already wanted by the FBI,as he is a cyber terrorist and a hot headed one,believing there is nothing he cant do.

Batman stops the thieves but Edward,outraged at his defeat by him vows to get revenge by helping the authorities (in his own way) to catch Batman.

He forms a perfect trap,but in the mean time plans crimes to challenge and torment Batman. He then forms an alliance with the Penguin,claiming that he will stop Batman (since Batman has been targeting him lately) and share the money he will steal from Wayne Enterprises,in exchange for Penguins help.

Riddler then begins plotting his challenges in many forms,to takedown Batman and steal the money from Bruce Wayne.

[Jolly C.]

The cyber terrorist thing is too outlandish, but i like the idea of him starting out as just a villain then getting arrested and making a deal with the cops to catch batman now thats a new direction.

[Mister H.]

http://blackliberal.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/jerk-pic.jpg
:woot:

Let me get this straight. You suggested a plot involving Batman saving the world from nuclear annihilation-- and I'm the jerk?

[Rodrigo90]

Whats so bad about Batman going a little 007?

[J. Custer]

I don't like the idea of Riddler as some computer cyber terrorist, please, let's keep computers out of the the story as much as possible(unless it's in the Bat cave). This is a story about a man that is warring on the criminal element using his mind and fists...and a few secret "weapons". I also hate the fed idea. Really! Riddler had a high profile job in the FBI? FBI?? That sure takes away a lot of mystery....unless he was able to fake his death. Still I'd rather the Riddler be....well, I'd rather he not be in the next movie to tell you the truth! I have to re-read Riddler origin stories and see where this can go....

[ALittlePush]

Part two of my Riddler idea.

Gordon suggests that they should redirect the investigation into finding the escaped inmates rather than Batman much to Nashton’s annoyance. Deciding that he should put his plan into practice, Nashton’s first act as the Riddler is to leave a riddle on Gordon’s desk:

I tick down to the end of a school day but I’m not a clock.
What am I?

The riddle is printed on a blank business card with a green question mark on the back. Gordon finds the riddle and asks if anyone knows who put the riddle on his desk but no one does. Nashton asks if Gordon thinks the riddle means something and Gordon replies that he’s not sure. Gordon works out that the answer is “Bomb” and that the use of the word “school” in the riddle could imply that a bomb is hidden in a school somewhere in the city. Wanting to be safe than sorry, Gordon orders for all the schools within the city to be evacuated and searched.

The bomb is found within Gotham High School’s air conditioning where the countdown just reaches zero. However the bomb does not go off. Next to the bomb is another card:

Congratulations! This bomb was fake but the next one won’t be. Print this in the papers.

Batman
2085 41531119
20151497820

Nashton suggests to Gordon that they do as the card says as “who knows what sort of psycho we’re dealing with”. Gordon agrees and assigns Stephens, Bullock and Montoya to the escaped inmate case. He then gives a press conference regarding the bomb and riddles. The riddle appears in the paper the next day.

Nashton waits at the docks later that evening for Batman to appear. When he does, Nashton attempts to arrest Batman but is overpowered and knocked unconscious. When Nashton awakes, he feels humiliated that Batman got away. He decides to up his game and heads back to the MCU.

[Rodrigo90]

Honest to God...Im starting to go off Riddler altogether now. I think many people have lost touch with what things were. Riddler didnt have a backstory,he just appeared and many people dont want that in a movie...why?

Riddler as a Fed and his spiral into madness will over take the movie IMO. Its all about Nashton becoming Riddler.

What I truly want is something original that splices with the movie. An obsessed madman who wants to challenge Batman,the police, and the FBI that are hunting him (Batman) to stop him. Its about him using his intellect to fight the law and defeat it so that it can quench his ego. He then starts shift his focus more on Batman.

[ALittlePush]

An alternative idea I had about Riddler.

Instead of being a fed, he is a reporter working for the Gotham Times. He believes there is a conspiracy cooked up by the GCPD to defile Batman’s good name. Everyone laughs at him so he goes to desperate lengths to prove his theory correct.

[ALittlePush]

Honest to God...Im starting to go off Riddler altogether now. I think many people have lost touch with what things were. Riddler didnt have a backstory,he just appeared and many people dont want that in a movie...why?

Riddler as a Fed and his spiral into madness will over take the movie IMO. Its all about Nashton becoming Riddler.

In previous posts, you have wanted to give Riddler a backstory.

Heres the plot of Batman 3 if Riddler is a Fed. Obsessed FBI Agent creates traps and an alter ego (for some reason) to capture Batman. He accidentally kills somebody,goes insane and permanently becomes his alter ego. Simple,but brilliant.

Heres my plot, isnt a Fed. Obsessed P.I. Obsesses over Batman and discovers his identity before 3 begins. He used to be a highly intelligent,but crooked cop (longing to be a detective and pleased at his high status),but was set up by Gordon and sentenced to 3 years in prison. During that time,he cracked up and became obsessed with riddles and puzzles,to keep his mind preoccupied. 3 years passed and he was released,but was never the same again. He set up a private investigation firm,at the time Batman was already around and Joker was on the upcoming. Edward began to see psychiatrists,as he wasnt coping well. But they werent giving him "the right answers" to his questions. Edward was soon falling apart.

He then realised the only other man who understood obsession better than any psychiatrist was Batman. But he knew Batman wasnt going to understand the sheer complexity of his mind, unless he made him. During the events of 3. Edward began studying Batman at every angle and wanted to understand the knowledge of him,before any further action would be taken. Eventually he deducted that Batman was Bruce Wayne,but decided to keep that knowledge and use it in his quest. Edward decided to create an alter ego,in hopes of getting Batman's full attention...by becoming what Batman hates. His fascination (obsession) with riddles and puzzles was to become his image. As he identified himself as a complex riddle,that MUST be solved by Batman,by any means necessary. so that Edward could finally gain the knowledge of what he desires most...himself.

But his alter ego (the Riddler) personality gradually begins to take over his mind,until he loses himself and becomes a real threat.

[Rodrigo90]

I know. But the more I thought on it,its not really that important is it?

Im not too familiar with the Riddlers backstory in any medium. He is without one I think,save for his childhood explanation.

I do agree. He shouldn't just pop out nowhere like The Joker did. But I dont want his whole development to span across the entire movie. It should be brief,otherwise its just going to be a full blown Riddler origin movie.

He should come about at the worst possible time for Batman. Instead of being created just because Batman is wanted by the authorities,its more fun if Riddler takes advantage of the situation.

[ALittlePush]

I do agree. He shouldn't just pop out nowhere like The Joker did. But I dont want his whole development to span across the entire movie. It should be brief,otherwise its just going to be a full blown Riddler origin movie.

I see your point and I agree.

[Happy Jack]

I do agree. He shouldn't just pop out nowhere like The Joker did. But I dont want his whole development to span across the entire movie. It should be brief,otherwise its just going to be a full blown Riddler origin movie.

You act like he has to either be a complete enigma or have a backstory that takes over the narrative. You can have a compromise. Just bring him in with a few scenes or even a few lines of dialogue which explains who is and where he came from.

[Rodrigo90]

I would like to see him as a criminal of some sorts to start with,but not the Riddler straight away. Even though he is insane,he is calm and collected,but also with a childlike mind. He sadisticly taunts people for their lack of intellect.

He see's Batman's predicament with the police and FBI as a challenge to take them all on. He wants the attention Batman is getting and knows how to get it. By outsmarting and defeating them all,he will have purged his insane obsession...that he is the smartest man alive. He doesnt care who lives or dies in his traps, they are tests to see if the person is smart and worthy enough to live. People are just like peices in a game of chess to him.

So instead of him wanting to find out who Batman is from the off,its about defeating him. Then he realises that the only way to destroy Batman is to destroy the man who is behind the mask and that means solving the riddle of who he is.

[Closerframe]

I prefer the idea of the Riddler being a John Doe type of character, playing as a puppet master behind the scenes. None of Nolan's villains seem to have a background, so Riddler not having one doesn't really bother me, but I do like the idea of him dwelling deeper and deeper into madness.

[Mister H.]

Why do so many fans think the Riddler needs to be insane?

[Lots o lafs]

I like the idea of riddler being eccentric, conceded, and very obsessive.

PS why do something that has been done before, i dont want batman to be doing local cyber crime units job, or have the movie be se7en.

[Rodrigo90]

Why do so many fans think the Riddler needs to be insane?

He's not insane per se. Just really obsessive about leaving his mark and saying to himself...

"Im the smartest...I beat the The Police,The FBI and The Worlds Greatest Detective".

What drove him to that obsession can be explained throughout,I think it will be rather chilling if so.

[Rodrigo90]

I dont think their would be anything wrong with a Batman spin on Zodiac or Se7en. But Riddler should be a lot more open than those killers (IF he is a killer)...appearing on video messages with what is left behind explaining his next crime through riddles.

[Lots o lafs]

It just seems so used trash, when I look at the BB, TDK, and the inception trailer, I just couldnt see nolan doing that.

Se7en which is a great movie by the way, is not how I have ever pictured riddler.

He should stick to the core of the character.

PS Why does everyone think riddler is gonna be the next villain, or even want him to be?

[Rodrigo90]

But the Zodiac killer is more up Riddlers turf.

That guy made puzzles that still to this day have not been solved.

I think it would be a nice touch if Batman were to combat and defeat a Zodiac like threat. The evils that society face.

[Lots o lafs]

But that is so boring, I wouldn't want to watch a man(dressed like a bat) chase after some random guy.

I want it to be an action movie,
I like dynamite, and gunpowder, and....... gasoline.

Batman is a comic, comics are known for action, and batman is particularly known for great villains, it should stick to those basic elements.

[Rodrigo90]

Exactly. Thats why Riddler should have multiple skills for different types of challenges. Not confined to just one thing throughout the entire movie.

[Jolly C.]

they just announced that the producers are writing the script as of now-ish.

[Marx]

I don't mind a little backstory to Riddler...but I don't want it to become a full fledged origin story.

[RachelDawes]

I don't mind a little backstory to Riddler...but I don't want it to become a full fledged origin story.

I don't think it will be. The only villain we've seen an origin for is Two-Face, and that's practically unavoidable at this stage in Batman's career. I don't think we'll be getting much backstory on the Riddler, Catwoman, Black Mask, or whoever else is in the movie.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward shouldn't be The Riddler right from the start and is already beginning his crimes like The Joker.


It should be a very brief intro about who he is and what he is planning to do. Maybe show his home and its covered with puzzles and games. We then see him working on his plan formations and what he has gathered.

[Marx]

I don't think it will be. The only villain we've seen an origin for is Two-Face, and that's practically unavoidable at this stage in Batman's career. I don't think we'll be getting much backstory on the Riddler, Catwoman, Black Mask, or whoever else is in the movie.

I agree.

[Rodrigo90]

I mean dont get me wrong,I think The Fed is great. But...it seems as though the entire movie will be focused on Agent Nashton's transformation into The Riddler. Thats making him too much like Harvey Dent,never mind trying making him less like The Joker.

It would be too much a Riddler movie tbh.

Its been said that the whole "getting lost inside this monster of yours" is a basis for Federeal Riddlers character...Thats not what Riddler is about at all. The only thing he and Batman should have in common are their intellect. Riddler knows Batman has a detective mind and seeks to exploit it for his own obsession,cause he likes to challenge minds that are potentially greater than his and purge that obsession by outwiting and defeating them.

[Jolly C.]

I can see it perfectly working the way rodrigo suggested before how he starts out as a criminal with no villain alias and then offers to catch the batman for the police then goes overboard with his methods and becomes the riddler fulfledged.

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler first appeared to challenge Batman,with no other explanation than to prove he was the smartest.

In movie wise,Joker did the same and we dont want to see that again.

In the comics,Edward was already a criminal...yes he worked at the carnival and conned people with his tricks,but he still enjoyed it.

Working at the carnival in the Nolan movies wont work.

Now. In order to get a good explanation of Riddlers appearance in Gotham,other than he "just appears out nowhere" should be based on Batmans situation. Also to get a little development into his character.

The Fed idea would cause the movie to be all about Edward,his obsession,his transformation into The Riddler,the villains shouldnt overshadow the entire movie,thats what BB and TDK were good at. They were there and it was acceptable...but everybody wants to see something a little different...the development of the villain. But it shouldnt span across the movie.

In my eyes,Riddler shouldnt be "there"...it should be Edward and he is already a criminal,on the tracks to becoming Riddler.

Batman villains cant relate with Batman with the whole "Getting lost inside the monster". But they can all relate with Ducards speech, "If you make yourself more than just a man,if you devote yourself to an ideal...you become something else entirely". THAT is the basis of a true Bat villain.

Sort of a pre Riddler to start with,then becoming what he truly is now.

[Mindreaper21]

Well said. Besides, can anyone recall the Feds being involved in Batman? You have to be smart about this one. If the Feds didn't show up for The Joker, they won't show up at all. Joker killed the Commishioner, a Judge, attemted to kill the Mayor, and threatened to kill the Disrict Attourney. Not to mention the stunt Scarecrow and Ras pulled. Why in the world would the Feds show up now? Thats just being rediculous...No FBI, secret agents, etc. The Riddler is a criminal, simple.

[Rodrigo90]

Exactly. The FBI always take a back seat to everything,they didnt show up for the likes of Joker,why should they should up to catch Batman? It wouldn't make sense.

The only way I would want the Feds to acknowledged,is if Edward is already on the most wanted list. That way,he is already on the verge of becoming Riddler and doesnt have long, drawn out origin movie,that would happen if he were a Fed.

Edward should be a criminal,exploiting and wanting the attention Batman is getting. He realises he needs to up his game and become something more complex in order to challenge and defeat Batman.

There really doesnt have to be a perfect explanation of him doing things,its just obsession that he cant control. He wants to see if anybody can out match him and his intelligence.

[COMPO]

I'd love if the Riddler conned his way into the investigation making people believe he's a Cop or Private Investigator to get information on Batman and the Two Face case.

[rfU]

Batman
2085 41531119
20151497820what's the solution to this one?

However, the more frustrated Nashton becomes, the more he gets into the Riddler role. He becomes so obsessed with catching Batman that the Riddler isn’t just a trap for Batman anymore but an actual threat to Gotham.I like this. Starts out trying to get to Batman but then a gradual transformation and he gets sucked into the role.

Eventually he deducted that Batman was Bruce WayneHow and at what point in the movie?

[Mindreaper21]

Exactly. The FBI always take a back seat to everything,they didnt show up for the likes of Joker,why should they should up to catch Batman? It wouldn't make sense.

The only way I would want the Feds to acknowledged,is if Edward is already on the most wanted list. That way,he is already on the verge of becoming Riddler and doesnt have long, drawn out origin movie,that would happen if he were a Fed.

Edward should be a criminal,exploiting and wanting the attention Batman is getting. He realises he needs to up his game and become something more complex in order to challenge and defeat Batman.

There really doesnt have to be a perfect explanation of him doing things,its just obsession that he cant control. He wants to see if anybody can out match him and his intelligence.

This is nice, but I wouldn't want him on the Most Wanted list. In the virals he wrote a letter to Gotham Times, and if he were a wanted man, he would already be caught. I just want him to be a criminal mastermind. Since The Riddler is so intelligent it puts me in the mind of Ted Bundy, who acted as his own lawyer and used his charm and wits to sway the jury. Like Keyser Soze from "The Usual Suspects" who sat in a room and made up a story using names and other things around the room to lie his way into making the cops believe he was innocent. Someone who can commit a crime that is completely obvious but still, is unable to get caught because of certain circumstances. The only downfall being his ego, making his work sloppy towards his goal just enough to get him caugt for sure. "The Riddler's Reform" is a brilliant concept of what I'd like to see. A wealthy criminal, center of attention, that "I'm better than you" attitude, sarcastic, making Batman look rediculous, highly complex riddles, death traps etc. The Riddler doesn't need to be anything other than that which he is. Alot of people can't really grasp the concept of The Riddler, but just seeing him serious alone on the big screen, would amplify his disturbed nature.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward should already be an acknowledged and established criminal. Going from City to City to challenge and defeat the Authorities,and he has never been caught.

His next target is Gotham City. Of course Batman is the only one who catches him and he is sent to Arkham Asylum. Edward obsesses over his defeat by Batman and formulates a plan to break out,which he does. But spending time in Arkham has warped his mind and he decides to become something more like the other criminals in there and becomes The Riddler,vowing to get his revenge on Batman (and to prove Batman isnt as smart as he is) by creating the perfect challenges and the ultimate death trap. The trap is inspired by Gothams mission to stop Batman and Riddler wants to see him outwitted and be killed in it basically.

So he arrives in Gotham to challenge Commissioner Gordon first and then goes after Batman. He obsesses about Batman that much,he deducts who he is.

[Rodrigo90]

Cause IMO. The movie shouldnt be based around everybody elses efforts at catching Batman. It should be created from Batman dealing with a new threat in his new situation of things. The struggles of dealing with a psychotic villain obsessed with pwning his ass at any cost,while being hunted by the Authorities at the same time,intent on his capture.

If Riddler was a Fed,the focus and journey will be based entirely on him...efforts of trying to catch Batman and falling into madness. Batman might as well be the secondary character.

So if the movie is focused on the police and the FBI trying to catch Batman,then that plot will be focused more so on them and their efforts,which includes the long origin of Agent Nashton becoming The Riddler,which shouldnt happen.

[ALittlePush]

what's the solution to this one?

The Docks
Tonight

Each number represents the letter in the alphabet.

[Jolly C.]

alot mind changing here.

[bgates87]

Just throwing this out here, this is another idea I had for the Riddler. I'm still trying to work out some details but I think it would work and fit with Nolan's direction:

He's a 42-year-old ex-cop who was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease at age 40. He quit the police force to become a private detective after his superiors decide that the increasingly severe symptoms of his disease make him unfit to be an active-duty cop. He's bitter and determined to prove that he still has what it takes despite his disease, and when the Batman arrives in Gotham City he sees it as an opportunity to prove that he still has what it takes by identifying and capturing the Batman.

This little origin story allows for several traits that most interpretations of The Riddler have in common: His motivation for being obsessed with finding out who the Batman is comes from genuine emotions like revenge and pride that most people can relate to. He becomes very good at puzzles, riddles and word games because he uses them to occupy his time now that his disease has made physical activity difficult. His standard outfit while operating as a private detective includes his favorite olive green tweed jacket and a green fedora. His disease also forces him to use a cane. This also adheres to Nolan's theme of Batman creating the villains he faces, since his presence inspires the detective to become "The Riddler."

Also, here are some little plot ideas I had. I think these could be good regardless of your interpretation of the character.

- The detective becomes known as "The Riddler" when he uses that name as a pen name while sending clues to the Gotham Times.

- The Riddler hires a gang led by Roman Sionis to carry out crimes in broad daylight, hoping to lure the Batman out during daytime so he can be captured.

- Unable to act as the Batman during the day, Bruce Wayne dons the guise of private detective "Matches Malone" several times while he investigates the series of crimes being committed by Sionis' gang.

- The Riddler creates his own Bat Signal in another attempt to trap the Batman.

[Jolly C.]

bgates87 thats a pretty cool idea...i would change it to where black mask is after bruce wayne for taking over his company and then there will be black mask after bruce wayne and riddler after batman which could be a pretty good plot.

[Rodrigo90]

It does make sense to have Riddler come in and use his traps to capture Batman,but why didnt the guy do it with the Joker?

I just think his obsession should be to battle the police first,no death traps,just challenges. He becomes The Riddler after Batman beats him,and invents his own trap (Only one for the final confrontation) to outwit and kill Batman. But still makes random attempts on Batmans life during his challenges,that will result in his death and others.

But Riddler really wants and is certain Batman will succumb to his final death trap.

It makes sense to his psychology if he already has an obsession to challenge people before Batman. Cause he seems pretty crap if hes out to catch Batman,but cant time after time,attempt after attempt. It would be like Road Runner and WileE. Coyote

[bgates87]

Double Post.

[bgates87]

bgates87 thats a pretty cool idea...i would change it to where black mask is after bruce wayne for taking over his company and then there will be black mask after bruce wayne and riddler after batman which could be a pretty good plot.
Actually I did have another story about the origins of the Black Mask that is along those lines:

When Wayne Enterprises and the Janus Cosmetics Board of Directors agree to the terms of a friendly buyout, Janus Cosmetics CEO Roman Sionis fears he will lose his job if the transaction takes place. He is then approached by William Earle, disgruntled former CEO of Wayne Enterprises, and the two of them plan a little corporate espionage. They hope that the financial damage will force Wayne Enterprises to back out of the deal.

Things go wrong when Lucius Fox happens to be staying after hours on the night that Sionis and a gang of mobsters plan to break in to the headquarters of Wayne Enterprises (wearing masks of course). When they confront Fox, Sionis panics and decides to kidnap him and hold him for ransom. Fox activates a tracking device inside of his cell phone as he's being taken. The device signals Batman and allows him to track Fox's location. Batman follows them to a warehouse on the Gotham Docks, where a meeting is taking place between Earle and Sionis. When Earle realizes how the plan has escalated he decides he wants no part of a kidnapping so he leaves. Batman then crashes the party, beating up several thugs and freeing Lucius. However, Batman is forced to flee when the police begin to arrive on scene which allows Sionis time to escape.

When filing the police report the only thing Fox can tell them about his captor was that he was wearing a black mask, thus he is dubbed "The Black Mask" by local media. Sionis- now a criminal with nothing to lose- embraces his new identity and uses his money and mob connections to quickly rise to the top of the Gotham's criminal underworld.

[thedrizzle59]

The League of Shadows has been taken over by ROMAN SIONIS. Roman was a previous apprentice to RAS AL GHUL. After Roman killed his parents by burning down his mansion in Gotham, Ras recruited Roman before ever recruiting BRUCE WAYNE to the league of shadows, giving Roman a chance at revenge against the city that has brought him nothing but pain. Ras began training Roman in the Eastern Mountains. When he was told to kill a murderer for his initiation in the League, He killed the man without any hesitation. He was exiled by Ras after Roman began killing innocent people for no reason other than impulse. Ras believed Roman to be nothing more than a true sociopath unworthy of leading the League of Shadows to Gotham. This led Ras to find Bruce Wayne instead. Roman returned to Gotham as a failed businessman looking for another way to gain power in Gotham. Roman was contacted by an unknown man who offered him a chance at ruling Gotham's criminal underworld. Roman was able to gain control of what was left of the league of shadows with help from the unknown assailant. Roman retitled the League of shadows to The False Face Society, and took on the alias of BLACK MASK. Roman began using the trained assassins to force other criminals in Gotham to join his society or die. Before long Roman had complete control over Gotham's Underground, using every resource to corrupt/infiltrate Gotham's legal infrastructure.

[thedrizzle59]

EDWARD NASHTON is a very mysterious man. Incredibly brilliant and manipulative. Has many resources at his side and a dignified strategist. Edward is able to manipulate the league of shadows and ROMAN SIONIS who's desperate for power. Edward uses Roman as a puppet to do his dirty work. Edward knows the truth about HARVEY DENT. He knows that BATMAN and GORDON covered up the truth by saying batman killed those people. Nashton doesn't like the fact that Batman is trying to save Gotham through false pretenses, and that the truth shall set you free. Edward has Roman kidnap COLMAN REESE and extract the identity of Batman. Once Edward learns that BRUCE WAYNE is batman he begins Testing Gordon and Batman (with the help of Roman), trying to get them to reveal the truth to the public about Dent themselves. Although being at critical locations throughout the story in plain sight of Bruce and Gordon, Batman is completely unaware of Edward until the very end of the story, when Roman reveals he was working for someone else.

[Lots o lafs]

Black mask seems like a perfect fit in ther series, as all of the mob is either dead or in prison, so someone could just waltz In and takeover everything, that person would have to be feared by the city, bu more feared by the underworld.

As far as riddler goes, I'm not sure why everyone wants him, because he doesn't seem like a great fit in the new series.

WHY IS RIDDLER FRIGHTENING OR THREATENING?
I have always seen riddler as one of batmans worst villains, almost all of his plots are foiled easily by bats, while providing less of a threat than most of his other rogues.

[Jolly C.]

bgates i could see that happening nice job. thedrizzle59 your idea would be pretty cool too. it would tie to the first film plus Black Mask would be Batmans opposite since Bruce didnt murder the prisoner and Roman did so Black Mask is what Bruce could have become, nice....

The Coleman Reese part i had the idea of the Riddler himself going to Reese's house and waiting for him until he gets home and sort of interrogates him but doesnt want him to give any straight answers then he comes to the question "who is batman?" Then as soon as Reese trys to answer the Riddler says "shhhh you'll spoil the surprise." Then Riddler presents Reese with some sort of Riddle and Reese gives an answer that he thinks is right then Riddler says "Hmmm I never thought about it that way", then leaves his house but as he leaves on the street he says "but thats the wrong answer" and pulls out a detonator and Reeses house explodes.

[Green Ghoul]

He's a 42-year-old ex-cop who was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease at age 40. He quit the police force to become a private detective after his superiors decide that the increasingly severe symptoms of his disease make him unfit to be an active-duty cop. He's bitter and determined to prove that he still has what it takes despite his disease, and when the Batman arrives in Gotham City he sees it as an opportunity to prove that he still has what it takes by identifying and capturing the Batman.

This little origin story allows for several traits that most interpretations of The Riddler have in common: His motivation for being obsessed with finding out who the Batman is comes from genuine emotions like revenge and pride that most people can relate to. He becomes very good at puzzles, riddles and word games because he uses them to occupy his time now that his disease has made physical activity difficult. His standard outfit while operating as a private detective includes his favorite olive green tweed jacket and a green fedora. His disease also forces him to use a cane. This also adheres to Nolan's theme of Batman creating the villains he faces, since his presence inspires the detective to become "The Riddler."I really like this idea. It would be interesting if Edward started out with good intentions, trying to be Gotham's new hero by unmasking the Batman. Somewhere along the lines it becomes personal. Perhaps Batman humiliates him publicly, or Edward realizes Batman is a greater challenge than he predicted. His ego gets the best of him and his methods become more unethical as desperation kicks in. This would tie in nicely with TDK and the lectures we got from the Joker about ambitions and corruption.

Personally I think the cops and the Riddler should pressure Batman, while Roman Sionis (Black Mask) is busy trying to kill Bruce Wayne.

Although I've never been a big supporter of the Black Mask, I think Bruce needs to be in harm's way just as much as the Batman is. Let's face it, the cops are hunting Batman right now. If Batman had any common sense he would just keep a low profile and stick with the Bruce Wayne persona for awhile. Something should force Bruce out from hiding. If Batman and Bruce both had their backs to a corner, which one would be known for fighting back? Obviously Batman.

[Mindreaper21]

Why would The Riddler work with cops? He HATES cops...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddler1.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddler3-1.jpg

...and babies...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddler6.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddlerbaby2.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/scan6.jpg

:woot:...Yes THIS is why he's treatening.

[Avengers-Report]

Well said. Besides, can anyone recall the Feds being involved in Batman? You have to be smart about this one. If the Feds didn't show up for The Joker, they won't show up at all. Joker killed the Commishioner, a Judge, attemted to kill the Mayor, and threatened to kill the Disrict Attourney. Not to mention the stunt Scarecrow and Ras pulled. Why in the world would the Feds show up now? Thats just being rediculous...No FBI, secret agents, etc. The Riddler is a criminal, simple.

Not to mention the Joker blew up a hospital, robbed banks and threatened to destroy a boats and bridges. So I would have to agree with no Feds in this next movie.

[Rodrigo90]

My God that panel with the Baby,that is very disturbing...Riddler couldn't be that evil if he were a Fed.

[ronny]

That's one of the darkest things I've ever seen in a Batman comic. Although they describe Riddler perfectly, a 'sadistic runt'.
That's the core of the character. Not to be suave or debonair, but to be annoying and really quite a coward. And in this respect he is a totally different kettle of fish to Ras or Joker. Both of whom were exceptionally brave.

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah. Riddler is a coward and a sadistic runt. He hides behind his traps.

Thats what I want him to be like. Creating challenges for Batman as a psychopath,not traps as a Fed or anything.

People dont understand I think. Jigsaw utilises traps that make people give up a part of their body or something. He forces people to do things they dont want in order to see how much their life is important to them.

Riddler should be a guy who is sadistic and creates challenges (not traps) for people who are in high Authority and intelligent enough (the Police).

Maybe with all the focus on everybody trying to catch Batman (After Batman has p****d him off),Riddler creates a challenge in the form of a trap,that will kill him if he isnt smart enough.

[Mister H.]

That's one of the darkest things I've ever seen in a Batman comic. Although they describe Riddler perfectly, a 'sadistic runt'.
That's the core of the character. Not to be suave or debonair, but to be annoying and really quite a coward. And in this respect he is a totally different kettle of fish to Ras or Joker. Both of whom were exceptionally brave.

This is why I think he could be a very interesting addition Nolan's to Gotham City. But his image is just so corny, you'd have to totally reinvent the way the public imagines the Riddler. Gee, Nolan's never done that before...

[J. Custer]

I'd like Nolan to do Riddler.... secondary to Penguin. not in a bad way but in the way Scarecrow was second to Ras. I think Nolan should go to Penguin for the main and put his own spin on the character. I have a certain picture of the Penguin portrayal that would be great. And I only suggest this because it makes for a great contrast in villans; Ra's/ Scarecrow, Joker/ Two Face, Penguin/ Riddler and a Joker/Catwoman lead in to a fourth installment. To go from Joker to Riddler...mm, I'm iffy on it. Penguin is very different from Joker, and I would like to see Nolan and co challenge themselves and write a great Penguin. Though I think Nolan and co will surprise everone and recast Joker. Eh, who the heck knows...We'll find out...but not soon enough!

[J. Custer]

This is why I think he could be a very interesting addition Nolan's to Gotham City. But his image is just so corny, you'd have to totally reinvent the way the public imagines the Riddler. Gee, Nolan's never done that before...


H, I have no idea what Nolan would do visually to interpret a character like Riddler. Maybe my Mom know something:awesome:

seriously tho.... the green spandex with one big question mark, domino mask and a long coat and derby could work, and would make him stand out among the established freaks. but that's something that would be fun in a scenario where Riddler is in that lesser BB Scarecrow-type role and laughing in the shadows or in a montage of Batman taking down different villans.

[Rodrigo90]

I was watching the FBI case files last night and it was about a criminal like The Riddler in many ways.

Hawkson was his name and he deliberately used to commit crimes and leaves clues to what would occur next,although he was never caught for years.

Apparently he had a tendency to dress respectfully,even while he commited his crimes,like Jack The Ripper. They dress neat and tidy,because thats how they work their crimes and schemes,neat and tidy.

So it would explain why Riddler dresses at his finest,cause he sees his crimes as the finest.

Hawkson also stole over a million from a bank in Illinois and casually went to a posh diner and ordered tea and crumpets. I see Riddler like that.

[Kane52630]

The question would make a great partner for The Riddler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_(comics)

[COMPO]

I was watching the FBI case files last night and it was about a criminal like The Riddler in many ways.

Hawkson was his name and he deliberately used to commit crimes and leaves clues to what would occur next,although he was never caught for years.

Apparently he had a tendency to dress respectfully,even while he commited his crimes,like Jack The Ripper. They dress neat and tidy,because thats how they work their crimes and schemes,neat and tidy.

So it would explain why Riddler dresses at his finest,cause he sees his crimes as the finest.

Hawkson also stole over a million from a bank in Illinois and casually went to a posh diner and ordered tea and crumpets. I see Riddler like that.

I like this and it says a lot about the riddler, everything has to be carefully planned. I'd have him as a mysterious figure and sort of an anti joker whereas the joker in TDK was thought to just be a planner but actually was part of the group, the riddler is the planner and communicates through comlinks etc. be cool if he only employed unitelligent people so that they don't betray him.

The question would make a great partner for The Riddler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_(comics)

why? isnt he a good guy? :S

[Kane52630]

why? isnt he a good guy? :S

since when you can call a character a good guy or bad guy in Nolans batman?
plus in my idea i want the riddler seem to be the good guy on the is for the short time

[regwec]

I would like The Riddler to be someone so devoted to intellectual contest and tete-a-tete that he fails to consider the consequences of his essentially hobbyist approach to crime.

It is difficult to imagine The Riddler as someone who genuinely wants the sort of anarchy that might be unleashed by the defeat of Batman. He is too weak and cowardly an individual for that. But, hearing of Batman's sharp intellect, and considering his own to be sharper, he will devote himself to outwitting and humiliating his oponent. This would lead him to persue an exhibitionist, crimiminal lifestyle he wouldn't otherwise consider.

All of that could follow from Mr Reese's character arc in TDK.

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler should justify his crimes by his intelligence, Thinking his great intellect and thirst for knowledge can grant him the power to do what he wants.

I have a scene in the story Im writing,where Edward is about to be transferred to Arkham,after being caught by Batman,for trying to kill Gordon. Bullock (Who is a Fed here and not a Detective),tries to get Edward to reveal Batman's identity (as he knows). But Edward claims "The knowledge of knowing who he is behind that Mask Is power...and Im not sharing my power with anybody".

But Edward senses Bullock's frustration and manipulates it by making a deal. Edward claims he wants to challenge Batman personally,and he CAN defeat him. He tells Bullock that if he 'releases' him for 72 hours,he will devise a trap that will ensure Batman's capture,and Bullock can arrest them both. Edward says that he doesnt mind helping the Law and going to Arkham,as long as he can defeat Batman and prove he is smarter. Bullock agrees...BIG mistake. Edward then becomes The Riddler.

[regwec]

Pretty good!

I would develop my idea of The Riddler's thirst to defeat Batman intellectually leading him to become a supervillian almost unwittingly. Perhaps, as plain Reese or Nigma, he cannot access the manpower or resources needed to expose Batman publically. As a pretty grey sort of individual, he can't get sufficient attention, either. So he devises a colourful identity (which is all the rage in Gotham after the appearance of Batman, The Joker and Scarecrow), and masterminds a series of lucrative bankraids and scams in order to fund a growing mob of loyal goons. He heavily telegraphs the fact that he is the brain behind each crime, by leaving clues that directly taunt Batman.

This effectively leads to the classic Ridder, though it is grown organically from Reese's grudge against Wayne and Fox as seen in TDK. Along the way, our villain aquires a monicker (probably given to him by the media- it would be nice if his alias was in flux early in his career, with "Clueman" "Puzzleman" being used before "The Riddler" sticks), a costume and a gang of hardened criminals that he cannot control. It would be interesting if someone like Zsasz ended up in The Riddler's employ; you can imagine how uncomfortable the two would be together.

It would also explain The Riddler's whacky costume. He needs it to give him celebrity, so it would be deliberately overstated and lurid. Rather than underplaying the costume as a green suit with hat, I would overplay it, and adapt Nigma's original green leotard. It would be intentionally campy and absurd, because The Riddler would be a talented amateur trying to cash in on the supervillain craze.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/regwec/The_Riddler_01.jpg

The point is that The Riddler's costume would most logically be designed to be a costume, rather than a product of unusual taste (as with The Joker) or circumstance (as with Two Face).

[RetroNaz]

This might get me flamed, but I'd prefer to have the Riddler start off as him straight into the film.

It would be good to see Batman slowly uncrack his real persona, and to fill the audience (via Alfred?) who the Riddler is and what his condition is that causes him to be so obsessive compulsive.

I kind of find origins to be a little goofy in some of these films...and would almost appear out of place in the Nolanverse (Two Face being the obvious exception).

This is just my two cents...but it would be good to see Batman get the big win over Riddler simply by solving the greatest one of all time. Who the Riddler is, beating him at his own game. Not with a fist fight, but with the power of good old investigation work and problem solving.

I'd save the fighting a villain for a secondary bad guy in the film if I had the choice. And keep the mind games between Riddler and Batman.

[COMPO]

I think it would be interesting if the Riddler became the Riddler because he wanted to find out who the Batman was. I'd make him an ex reporter whom wants the big story and has always had trouble gettin the truth because the mob blocked him or the police did. The big story for now is the Batman, he wnats to know who Batman is after Reese went on TV and get the big story and his life back.

He starts to set riddles to lure Batman out and try and stop him, once he captures Batman and learns his identity he'll stop and go off somewhere basking in the fame as the man who revealed Batman but he starts to get addicted to being able to outsmart people, the police and Batman and can't stop.

[ronny]

I just hope Nolan doesn't kill off The Riddler. This is one of those cases where getting arrested is the worst punishment for a guy like him.
I mean, getting handcuffed, dragged into a police station and thrown in a dank cell. Just like any ordinary criminal. That's probably The Riddler's idea of Hell.

[RetroNaz]

I just hope Nolan doesn't kill off The Riddler. This is one of those cases where getting arrested is the worst punishment for a guy like him.
I mean, getting handcuffed, dragged into a police station and thrown in a dank cell. Just like any ordinary criminal. That's probably The Riddler's idea of Hell.

Agree with this completely.

[jmc]

I just hope Nolan doesn't kill off The Riddler. This is one of those cases where getting arrested is the worst punishment for a guy like him.
I mean, getting handcuffed, dragged into a police station and thrown in a dank cell. Just like any ordinary criminal. That's probably The Riddler's idea of Hell.

Yeah, he's not the type of guy you should really kill off, although someone's probably gotta die.

[Rodrigo90]

I think the Riddler should be killed off,knowledge is power and he has great power by knowing things he shouldn't. That should be his ruin,IMO. Knowledge destroys him.

[Ryan]

"Yeah. Riddler is a coward and a sadistic runt. He hides behind his traps. " Rodrigo90

I think that best describes the Riddler to me and is what seperates him from the other Bat villains. I'm glad people are going against the whole "fed gone bad" idea as I've never liked that as his new origin in the next film. I would rather that the Riddler already be on the road to ruin, much the same as the Joker was. If anything, let his origin be revealed through his actions and his purpose in the film.

Whatever the plot, I'm thinking that the primary function of the Riddler character, will be to restore people's faith in Batman as a hero.

[Octoberist]

I've got this idea that Riddler should talk like a broadcast reporter from the 30s. best idea ever!

[jmc]

Whatever the plot, I'm thinking that the primary function of the Riddler character, will be to restore people's faith in Batman as a hero.

I don't know if he will restore their faith in Batman, but I think it will come to the point were he'll do something where they have no choice but to turn to Batman.

[ronny]

Whatever the plot, I'm thinking that the primary function of the Riddler character, will be to restore people's faith in Batman as a hero.

Absolutely agree. I think Riddler should almost be an Antichrist figure, loved and adored at the begining but utterly loathed and revilled by the end.
I reckon Nolan should pair him with Penguin. And have Cobblepot play the role Max Shreck did in Batman Returns, an arch-villain, barely visible, manipulating things from the background, appearing weaker but actually holding all the power.
I see The Riddler as a man who would give into his vices. He commits crimes both for intellectual gratification and material gain.
What if he completely went to pot by the end? Because he got too greedy, too arrogant and let his material pleasures weigh him down.
That was The Joker's greatest strength, his nihilistic attitude to life. Riddler should the opposite, addicted to life, sucking it dry, and eventually being brought down because he can't cut and run. He always needs new thrills, to keep proving his status and power. And that should be his undoing.

[RachelDawes]

Yeah, he's not the type of guy you should really kill off, although someone's probably gotta die.

I've been thinking that B3 should have the Riddler and Black Mask. The Riddler would live, but BM would be killed in the end.

[Dirt Like Me]

Whatever the plot, I'm thinking that the primary function of the Riddler character, will be to restore people's faith in Batman as a hero.

See, that's why I'm not crazy about the idea of the Riddler being the featured villain in the next movie. I want to see the story of Batman's redemption, but I don't think the Riddler is the guy to facilitate it. He strikes me as too much of a small-timer. To me, he's smart but isn't violent enough to instill the level of fear in the public that would cause them overlook the perception of Batman as a murderer.

After the Joker, I think that--without a drastic re-imaginging of the characer--the Riddler would seem pretty tame. How do you keep 'em on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?

That being said, I love Regwec's idea for the Riddler and think that if he was handled that way he'd make a great secondary villain.

[robthorn24]

My perfect Riddler characterization for B3 is as follows:

He has NOTHING to do with Coleman Reese. They need to be two separate characters here. I want the Riddler's true identity to be Edward Nashton. Edward Nygma could be another alias of his. Besides, Edward Nashton has already been established in Nolan's world (theoretically), as he has already written in to the Gotham Times.

The Riddler WILL NOT be a former member of the F.B.I., a news reporter...etc. If he is supposed to be classified as one of the "freaks" I don't want a background like that for him. In fact, I don't think I want any concrete background for him, much like the Joker in TDK. I would like him to kind of emerge from the shadows. I think this would make him that much more mysterious.

If Nolan and Co. were to stay within these guidelines, I would be a happy camper.

[Ryan]

I just figure its a given that this will Nolan's last Batman effort and in that, he will have to end the series with Batman being restored to the 'lovable vigilante"...if there is such a thing. Although time will take place between the events of Dark Knight and the third movie (I'm hoping for Dark Knight Returns as the title), I cannot see Nolan having such a time gap that Batman is back to hero status at the beginning of the film.
That being said, I'm figuring Riddler will be the main villain as it seems he will be big box office. Could you imagine if Heath had lived and there would have been a rematch? Ughg..such a shame
Anyways, I believe some how the Riddler character will unknowingly facilitate Batman's return to hero status. Possibly the loss of Fox's help, Coleman finding out inaccuracies (leading to Batman's identity), and the indepth nature of the riddles will lead Bruce to finally finish off that "foundation" and build the batcave.

[conan69]

Im no gonna go through 70 pages so Im not sure if Im repeating anything anyone has already said, but.....

The Riddler isnt The Joker. Nolan went with the Agent of Chaos thing with Joker - hence his appearance. I think Nolans Riddler will be cool and calculated. I can definitely see him wearing a combination of a suit and "droogish" appearance, with the colors associated with the character. Its possible to get a few carefully placed ?s for Nolans version.

I can see Nolans Riddler as a combination of Zodiac (in the way he taunted and spread terror) and Die Hard 3s Simon Gruber.

Edit:
Reading through some of the comments, I agree with, an would love to see Cobbelpot in there somewhere helping Riddler. I think Penguin shoudl make a appearance in Batman 3, even if its in a small supporting role.

[RetroNaz]

A little bit of Simon Gruber injected into the Riddler would be awesome Conan69 :up:

A bit of John Doe from Seven would also be awesome! I think he needs to be a self rightous, obsessive compulsive guy that isn't a loose canon, but has everything planned out in a very calm and off putting demeanor.

A gentlemen in some ways. Unless that's the direction they go with Penguin.

[Ryan]

The Riddler is that "know it all kid" in your class, that everyone hated. He doesn't play sports as it is beneath him, won't loan out his notes to help a fellow student, and would be more intent on proving the teacher wrong then being a teacher's pet.

[Rodrigo90]

Here's what Ive got so far.

During the events of TDK,several Police Departments in different cities were targeted by an unknown criminal. Setting complex challenges and games for the head of the Precincts,but they all fell victim when a challenge wasnt completed.

The mystery killer arrives in Gotham,and Commissioner Gordon is his next challenger. Of course,Batman gets involved and manages to catch the criminal.

He is revealed to be Edward Nashton,a former NYPD Detective. Edward claims to Gordon he was fired because he 'knew too much' and tried to expose the head of his Department as corrupt,only for him to be set up and sent to jail for 3 years. Whilst in prison,he suffered a breakdown and used complex puzzles and games to occupy his mind. Upon his release he planned to get his revenge on his former head and devised challenges...that would result in his death if he wasnt smart enough and it did.

[Rodrigo90]

Edward says to Gordon he saw him nothing more as a challenger like all the rest of the victims,other people are merely Pawns in a game of Chess

He goes on to say that he has finally found a worthy challenger in Batman and intends to unleash his puzzles upon him,so that he can prove that Batman isnt smarter than what he is and wasnt playing fair when he caught him.

Edward sweet talks Bullock (who is a Fed and working with the GCPD to catch Batman) to release him for 72 hours so that he may challenge Batman and capture him for them. Bullock reluctantly agrees (as he LOATHES Batman) and secretly helps Edward escape custody...only to realise he has been deliberately played for a fool.

Edward realises that he needs to become something more,like all the other criminals Batman has faced and up his game. He then becomes The Riddler...Using those devices to lead Batman to different challenges that will eventually lead to his final trap that will ensure Batman's capture or death and prove Edward is the smartest.

[Rodrigo90]

What Im trying to do is make something different.

Joker justified his crimes to madness and chaos.
Riddler justifies his crimes to his intelligence and wanting to challenge his own intellect to others,in the search for knowledge.
Joker says "Its all part of the plan"
Riddler should say "Its all part of the challenge.

Im trying to create a frightening aspect to Riddler with that origin. That he was once a good person,strong morals. But abandoned all that due to a break down,which he sees as his eyes being opened to true intellect. Being smart and realising the knowledge that life is a complex riddle that must be answered and a fun challenge to be played.

He is a lot more philosophical.

[RetroNaz]

I like where you're going with that - but I'd have the Riddlers catch phrase totally different to the Jokers. Unless you were only using that as an example of where he's at.

[Rodrigo90]

I like where you're going with that - but I'd have the Riddlers catch phrase totally different to the Jokers. Unless you were only using that as an example of where he's at.

Thank you :yay:

I was using the phrase as an example,yes.

I think "Knowledge is Power" would be a good one for The Riddler.

[COMPO]

"It's all about knowledge"

[RetroNaz]

Let me add some... :)

"The only crime here was you took this long to find me. Batman."

"I tested him with a riddle. Just one. He never understood that he was the punch line. And now he's dead."

Riddler: "If you have me, you want to share me. If you share me, you haven't got me. What am I?"

Batman: "A secret."

Riddler: "Exactly. And I know the answer to the biggest secret in Gotham, don't I Bruce?"

[Rodrigo90]

Let me add some... :)

"The only crime here was you took this long to find me. Batman."

"I tested him with a riddle. Just one. He never understood that he was the punch line. And now he's dead."

Riddler: "If you have me, you want to share me. If you share me, you haven't got me. What am I?"

Batman: "A secret."

Riddler: "Exactly. And I know the answer to the biggest secret in Gotham, don't I Bruce?"


I liked that :up:

[RetroNaz]

Thanks mate :)

[COMPO]

Let me add some... :)

"The only crime here was you took this long to find me. Batman."

"I tested him with a riddle. Just one. He never understood that he was the punch line. And now he's dead."

Riddler: "If you have me, you want to share me. If you share me, you haven't got me. What am I?"

Batman: "A secret."

Riddler: "Exactly. And I know the answer to the biggest secret in Gotham, don't I Bruce?"


are things the riddler has said before? cos i think I've heard them before.

Reese-"Why do you want me?"

Riddler-"Because your the man with the answer, and I'm the man with all the answers except one... Who. Is. Batman?"

[RetroNaz]

are things the riddler has said before? cos i think I've heard them before.

Reese-"Why do you want me?"

Riddler-"Because your the man with the answer, and I'm the man with all the answers except one... Who. Is. Batman?"

Totally made up except for the riddle, which is real.

[COMPO]

Oh cool, I thought it was from Hush lol.

[Ryan]

They've done a couple movies now with the whole Gotham under siege sort of thing. I would really like to see Nolan bring Arkham into the film and use that as the center stage. I'm doubtful that will happen though.

As for quotes, I would have loved the Riddler to deliver one of John Doe's final lines in Seven. "I'm setting the example. What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever.

Then end the movie with a either a riddle or an answer to a riddle that leaves people talking about it as the exit the theatre.

[Nightwing]

A little bit of Simon Gruber injected into the Riddler would be awesome Conan69 :up:

A bit of John Doe from Seven would also be awesome! I think he needs to be a self rightous, obsessive compulsive guy that isn't a loose canon, but has everything planned out in a very calm and off putting demeanor.

A gentlemen in some ways. Unless that's the direction they go with Penguin.
YES! I was watching Seven the other night and it's one of my fave movies of all time. Just a great all around detective film and Freeman is brilliant in that movie. I really like this idea and think it's ideal for Riddler. Props Retro. :up:
Thank you :yay:

I was using the phrase as an example,yes.

I think "Knowledge is Power" would be a good one for The Riddler.
Yeah, like I said a few pages ago - something like "Money isn't power..Money just gets you what you want in life. Knowledge..Knowledge is true power."

Or he can also quote Emerson who said - "All is riddle. And the key to a riddle..is another riddle."

[COMPO]

I like the last one, its somethin the riddler would say.

[Mindreaper21]

I have one...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddlerdeppconcept-2.jpg

[Batman jumps out of the window of an exploding building after he realizes that he misinterpreted the clue, only to find The Riddler outside waiting for him]

The Riddler: Well well, looks like I've overestimated you. That thing you pass off as a brain surely won't help you catch me.

(laying on the ground gasping for air)
Batman: I'm going to put an end to your sadistic mind games Riddler

The Riddler: Is that what you think? That's odd because Gordon told me the same thing.

[Gets up and grabs him]
Batman: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH GORDON!?!?

The Riddler:Which one?

Batman:What...

The Riddler: Hands off the suit first, it costs more than that ridiculous oufit you're wearing...

[Batman lets him go and The Riddler looks at his watch]
Hold your breath Batman. Three bodies in the dark will loose conscienceness in minutes. If you don't get to them in time, what becomes of them?

Batman:...Drowning victims...WHERE!?!?

The Riddler: You should already know the answer, I gave you a clue earlier. Better hurry though, the little ones were turning blue the last time I checked and I didn't think to ask them if they could swim.

[Batman runs to the batmobile and takes off full speed. He now knows that he must go to an old cargo ship at the loading docks. The Riddler watches on then pulls out his cell phone and dials someone's number]

When Batman gets there, he finds a green cargo container with a (?) painted on it slowly being let into the water by a crane. When Batman get's to the crane, he finds an note that says "Thought this would be easy?" and a cryptic riddle at the bottom. Batman grapples to the container and sees that Barbra Gordon and her children are gaged and bound to metal chairs. Batman takes the gag out of Barbras mouth.

Barbra: You have to get us out of here fast! The Riddler has something rigged to electrocute us all when the water touches it.

Batman: Hang on

[Batman has to untie them all because the chairs are to heavy to use the grappling gun for all of them.]

Just in time Batman is able to save them and everyone is ok.

[Crying]
Barbra: Thank you

Blue and red lights shine in the distance followed by loud sirens. Batman runs to the batmobile and the police, who The Riddler thought would make for a greater challenge by tipping them off, begin firing their guns. Batman gets away and starts working on the next riddle.

[Mister H.]

^ Gordon's family in peril again? I'll pass.

I'll also pass on Johnny Depp as the Riddler. I have to say, I suspect Nolan's Riddler would look a little less Willie Wonka and a little more Unibomber.

[Mindreaper21]

^ Gordon's family in peril again? I'll pass.

I'll also pass on Johnny Depp as the Riddler. I have to say, I suspect Nolan's Riddler would look a little less Willie Wonka and a little more Unibomber.

Rachel's life was in peril in the first two movies before she died and I don't think anyone else had a problem with that. Besides, I don't remember Gordon's wife being alive in anything I've seen other than the Nolan series, so I feel that at least her and their son should die and The Riddler should be the one to do it eventually... Johny Depp would be perfect because of ability to be creative with a character. He's not silly all the time and he can give us that suve as well as weird vibe...Making The Riddler like the Unibomber is unlikely because it ignores the other aspcets of The Riddler. Nolan is a BTAS fan, and you can see alot of those elemnents in the movies. So I'm pretty sure he will have a cross between TAS (which was the best incarnation) and B66.

[Ryan]

I hate to keep going back to the John Doe character from Se7en but I just think its one of the best detective movies in recent memory. I'm not a fan of the Unibomber look, but again prefer the sterile, clean look of John Doe for the Riddler. I think it would also be cool to have the Riddler dress up in different disguises throughout the movie and maybe save the last, final Riddler "look" until the end of the film.

[COMPO]

the difference is that Racheal was the love interest, although if Riddler is trying to get the truth out of Gordon about Two-Face it would be cool if reanacted the Two-Face kidnapping to show he knows what happened.

[Ekricket]

the difference is that Racheal was the love interest, although if Riddler is trying to get the truth out of Gordon about Two-Face it would be cool if reanacted the Two-Face kidnapping to show he knows what happened.


Maybe he runs around the whole movie disguised as Two-Face, driving Gordon and Batman crazy wondering if Dent is really dead - making them admit they killed him and he was evil.

What has two faces hiding another one?

[Ekricket]

I have one...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddlerdeppconcept-2.jpg

.


Batman: Catch Lucky, he's got all the marshmallows...!

Johnny Depp: Hearts, stars and horseshoes! Clovers and blue moons! Pots of gold and rainbows! And me red balloons!!!! Lucky Charms! They're Magically Delicious!!!!!

[COMPO]

Maybe he runs around the whole movie disguised as Two-Face, driving Gordon and Batman crazy wondering if Dent is really dead - making them admit they killed him and he was evil.

What has two faces hiding another one?

mmmm, I'd rather he employed someone to do that, so people believe its two face and then it revealed that the riddler is behind it all. I.e. Clayface, but more a master of disguise than a clay man.