Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Jordacar]

You don't have to have seen the SAW movies to know that the Jigsaw killer owes a lot of his inspiration to the Riddler.

That said, I haven't seen a lot of in-depth discussion about how to introduce the Riddler into the Nolanverse. My favorite rendition of the character is definitely the smooth intellectual of BTAS:
h8hreK2kL6g

I read somewhere that on the show, Riddler didn't appear that much because some of the stories that they came up with for him were too complicated to fit into 20 minutes. In a movie, they could draw things out a little more.

In Batman Forever, I think they really dropped the ball by making both the villains into Joker knock-offs (you can easily replace Riddler with Joker when he's blowing up the Bat-cave.)

I do imagine if he was in the Nolanverse, there would be a little Jigsaw-type action going on with some of his traps, but nobody wants to see "Saw-Lite." The Riddler's psychology is very different from Jigsaw. In all versions, Riddler is definitely more ego-driven. Another difference is that Jigsaw never had to go up against Batman (he probably would've had some respect for Bats). Batman has the mental capabilities to not only figure out Nygma's brainteasers, but also Nygma himself.

The riddles and traps that Nygma leaves behind could also take some cues from things like "National Treasure" and "DaVinci Code" with their complexity.

I didn't see a lot of Riddler on "The Batman" so I'm not sure what to draw from there.

[DawnWarrior]

I do imagine if he was in the Nolanverse, there would be a little Jigsaw-type action going on with some of his traps, but nobody wants to see "Saw-Lite." The Riddler's psychology is very different from Jigsaw. In all versions, Riddler is definitely more ego-driven. Another difference is that Jigsaw never had to go up against Batman (he probably would've had some respect for Bats). Batman has the mental capabilities to not only figure out Nygma's brainteasers, but also Nygma himself.
Jigsaw's also a lot more self-righteous than the Riddler. To Jig, he's doing these people a favor putting them through these sadistic exercises. Riddler is a lot more about "look how smart I am!"

[Joker]

Trust me, you dont want anything from The Batman's version of the Riddler. Unless you have a Marilyn Manson or Freddy Krueger fetish.

[BlueLightning]

Maybe his origin, I really liked the way they showed the Riddler origin.

[Nepenthes]

I'd rather the Riddler didn't take his cues from weak and gimmicky 'horror' movies.

[ronny]

The Riddler is a robber, a bomber, a man who acts based on his own ego and inability to supress that ego. Does he kill people? Not really for fun, only if it would further his aim of outwitting the cops and Batman and being known as the man who did it.
Face it, The Riddler is a loser (That's why I like him) and he's not a bloodthirsty serial killer. I personally think that he should kidnap Gordon, a Riddler film should be dialogue heavy. He taunts Batman, the cops, even the existing criminals in Gotham (Who beat him up on a regular basis when he tries to fit in). And what it all boils down to is this loser who wants attention. Kind of like "Look how smart I am!"
He's that annoying schoolkid who has to answer every question.

[COMPO]

you the bit in the Superman film were Superman is going after Luthor and theres all those traps that he just walks through. Would be good if in the final confrontation qwith the Riddler it was like that with Batman finding his hideout and having to go through all these traps sort of Crystal Maze thing.

[Mr. Socko]

I'd rather the Riddler didn't take his cues from weak and gimmicky 'horror' movies.

^I agree with this man.

[Jordacar]

you the bit in the Superman film were Superman is going after Luthor and theres all those traps that he just walks through. Would be good if in the final confrontation qwith the Riddler it was like that with Batman finding his hideout and having to go through all these traps sort of Crystal Maze thing.

There's a completely innocuous connection there that I just realized: John Glover played Riddler on BTAS, and he plays Lex Luthor's dad on 'Smallville.' He's the voice I always hear in my head when I read the Riddler in the comics.

[Hyden]

if you look to 'saw', 'the Da Vinci code', and 'National Treasure' as inspiration for anything besides suicide, you probably should never be allowed to provide creative ideas for anything.
Riddler is a feasibly "realistic" character, but he's also, at his core, an obsessive compulsive loser. A movie with him as the main antagonist is bound to be crappy because only an audience of comic-book forum goers can empathize with a pathetic unimaginative spaz trying to get attention through acting out.
He's intriguing 'cause he's pathetic, but he doesn't have the character to make people care about his retarded plight

[Steve Holt]

i always saw him as a Una-bomber type, an genius no-one who creates this terrorist persona. think Ed Norton in Fight Club as a start then throw in some bullying backstory, a reference to dissappointed parents.
then bombs all over gotham. batman must decipher his clues all the while Two-face is killing the mob,
batman must turn to the person he put away, the joker

[GlasgowBat]

"STEVE HOLT!"

i loved arrested development....

[JokerLedger]

It seems like The Joker is playing the role of The Riddler in the TDK virals.

[Steve Holt]

Steve Holt!

[BlueLightning]

I don´t think he is a loser by any way. I grow up watching Batman TAS, and in that series he was smooth, brilliant and, in a way, sinister. In his origin he was just seeking revenge, in others, just personal gratification. Brains over matter, never a physical match but a mental one.

[Man Who Laughed]

I always loved how they later identified/revealed that Riddler actually cannot leave a crime scene without leaving a riddle. Whoever came up with the concept of the Riddler was a genius. His one compulsion and possible edge over Batman is his downfall. But he keeps trying. Always thinking today is the day he fools the Bat.

[Riven]

I think it'd be a serious mistake to try and make the Riddler a "bad-ass" or "frightening" character. He's not a funky terrorist, he's not a mass-murderer or a creepy serial killer. If you make him that, you're doing the same thing BF did: ripping off the Joker, just in a different way.

It's a common mistake in superhero fiction that for a character to be interesting, he has to be made "darker". That's just not true. To me, the Riddler is interesting as the frustrated brainiac who's taken his compulsions too far, who isn't as big or as prominent a threat as Batman's other villains, but who therefor has the chance to slip by now and then and be underestimated.

I don't respect the Saw movies, because they had a genuinely interesting concept and started cheating on their own premise almost from the get-go. So taking cues from Jigsaw for the Riddler seems like a bad idea to me. Futhermore, the characters' psychology almost couldn't be more different, so it's already a tenuous stretch trying to transpose the one's modus operandi onto the other's...

And just for the record, The Da Vinci Code and National Treasure in no way have any complexity. If anything, the machinations in those movies were only a few steps up from the Riddler's pathetically simple riddles in BF...

[Ratcrawler]

I may be in the minority, but I rather liked The Batman's Goth Riddler. The design was a nice sPin on the original costume before they stuck him in the door-to-door salesman outfit. It gave me the impression that here was a villain who wears a skin tight leotard because he's a fetishist.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk292/Neonfiraga/SSO%20posters/motivator7633041.jpg
I'm not saying that outfit would translate onscreen but do all Bat-villains have to wear suits?

As far as motive goes, I figure he's a genius who just got fed up with how dumb society's gotten. His dad was a moron who never appreciated his talents and beat him, he was constantly tormented in his school years by dumb goons, his boss always promoted rich croneys over him. Yes, the world is on a roller coaster ride into Idiocracy and it's about time people started relying on their wits again. If they can't put together a few clues to find out where a bomb will go off or where millions of dollars will disappear from...well, they should have paid more attention in school now shouldn't they?

[Jordacar]

if you look to 'saw', 'the Da Vinci code', and 'National Treasure' as inspiration for anything besides suicide, you probably should never be allowed to provide creative ideas for anything.

I was just saying for starters. 'treasure' and 'davinci' were just off the top of my head.

Anyway, there didn't seem to be a Riddler discussion board, so I thought I'd start one by saying Jigsaw totally ripped off the Riddler.

There, I think I've covered myself.

[Danielson]

The Riddler would be a great character, but I just don't think he'd be all that great as the sole villain in a movie. He'd need a partner, which sucks because it'd likely be Two-Face. In a perfect world, I'd put him with the Penguin, I'll explain why later.

I see Edward Norton as the Riddler, that's the only guy I see as him because he's a good actor. I can't stand it when fanboys say "o, this guy should be the villain" simply because he looks like him. With make-up, new interpretations, and CGI, look isn't the first thing you should consider, but acting ability.

The Riddler should be persuasive in a subtle way, and not seem threatening, but in reality, is very dangerous, Ed Norton plays those roles PERFECTLY.

I wouldn't mind Nolan retelling a totally different Riddler origin. Maybe have him start as a detective who finds out the crime, but always, someone else steals it and gets all the credit. So he quits, and commits crimes that only he could have figured out. The reason I'd pair him with the Penguin is because I'd make the Penguin a mob boss, a short pudgy guy with a big nose, who takes short steps like a Penguin, nothing that doesn't look human, but resembling a Penguin. A former detective getting paid off by a mob boss would work IMO. The problem then would be that and epic final fight scene would have to be more about traps and less about fighting.


As for previous Riddlers, I hated Jim Carey, he was way too goofy and I just couldn't buy him as being intelligent at all. As usualy, Jim had to make some stupid faces and stupid noises in his movies, it's his trademark, which I could stand that, but the spandex and the "look at my balls" pelvic thrusts I could do without.

[StanLee Wannabe]

Steve Holt would be perfect.
Ed Norton and Kevin Spacey would have been fine if they hadn't been in other comicbook movies.

Sting or David Bowie might be inspired choices.

Gary Busey is the obvious choice though - you wouldn't have to write a lick of dialog. Just let him act like he does in real life.

[DawnWarrior]

As far as motive goes, I figure he's a genius who just got fed up with how dumb society's gotten. His dad was a moron who never appreciated his talents and beat him, he was constantly tormented in his school years by dumb goons, his boss always promoted rich croneys over him. Yes, the world is on a roller coaster ride into Idiocracy and it's about time people started relying on their wits again. If they can't put together a few clues to find out where a bomb will go off or where millions of dollars will disappear from...well, they should have paid more attention in school now shouldn't they?I can definitely dig that interpretation.

[Ceb-Man]

I would love to see the Riddler who uses his riddles and puzzles to not only use against Batman and the police, but also show this man as intelligent criminal mastermind.
I would also borrow one aspect from Batman: Hush and Batman Forever,that he figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman. Not through a device that was used in BF, but he figured it out through his intelligence!
A villian that figured out your secret identity could make a complex and interesting movie and protagonist.

[Jordacar]

I would also borrow one aspect from Batman: Hush and Batman Forever,that he figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman. Not through a device that was used in BF, but he figured it out through his intelligence!
A villian that figured out your secret identity could make a complex and interesting movie and protagonist.

I'm actually getting a little sick of that convention: the villain discovering the hero's identity. The seem to do that in every superhero movie now, to the point where it's no longer surprising or as dramatic, and to not do it would be the novelty.

But yay all the way for Riddler's big brain.

[American_Idiot]

I'd like the Riddler to be much more serious than the Joker-fied version of the past movie franchise, but his traps nowhere near as gruesome as Jigsaw's. I'm thinking more along the lines of Kevin Spacey in "Seven".

[NotAShrimp]

IF Riddler is going to be in the third movie, which kind of Riddler would you prefer: Psycho or more like TAS Riddler? Im not talking about they way Riddler looks, but the way he acts and does things.

If anyone has read this comic called "Dark Knight, Dark City" (I think its Batman #454 from the year 1990) Riddler is really crazy in it and I think they should make him like that to the movie too (If theyre going to use him).

The story in the comic itself sucks IMO, but I really enjoyed the "Psycho Riddler" in it. Little spoiler here:

There was this one great part where Riddler leaves a riddle to Batman and Batman knows the answer and goes to library. In the library Ridder has two cops, he makes some sick riddle at one of the officers and shoots him in the face with handgun. The other guy is hanged above books, and has loop around his neck and Riddler kicks the chair which makes the books fall.

I think that would work amazingly well in a Nolan Batman movie.

I might scan you some pages after I get the comic from our summer cottage.

I would like to hear other peoples opinions of scenes from the comics that would work greatly in Nolan's Batman movie and also I would like to know which kind of Riddler you would prefer to the movie. And I hope you understood something about the stuff that I was writing.

If this helps, heres a picture of the cover of the comic:

http://www.dcuguide.com/Bm/bm454.gif

[ScarecrowJim]

I want a psychopath riddler... but not a murderer.

Riddler's a nut and he tortures people, but I think that he has more morals than other supervillains and shouldn't be a cold-blooded killer.

Just my opinion

[HUMANIMAL]

a real sadistic one would be nice ...joker is all doing it just for the killing ...riddler should be doing it just for the riddles....of course deadly ones....not as brutal as saw but something similar would be awesome:-)

[Keyser Soze]

I think Paul Dini's current take on the character - as a snarky, egotistical private eye who is a rival of Batman, but still technically working on the side of the law - is as interesting as The Riddler's ever been. I wouldn't mind seeing him be something like this in a future movie.

[Nepenthes]

There's so many ways to go. I'm gonna try not to think about this until i see TDK.

[The Batman]

IMO, Riddler's been trampled on in the comics...given his stature in pop culture, he really shouldnt be treated as nothing more than a two bit, lower tier batman villain...he should, imo, be considered one of the more deadly villains, and definetely the smartest Batman villain.

My hope is that, if he is in the next movie, they dont make him second rate...

[Nepenthes]

^ I agree with The Batman, the concept of the Riddler is much more powerful and attractive than what's actually been executed in the comics. I really think that if he's used in film again it should be far beyond and above what we're familair with. Take then idea of a man who can outsmart Batman, who is obsessivly thorough, resourceful and manipulative and yet fundamentally insecure at the bottom of it all. What can he do with a whole city laid out as his pawns?

Riddler should be the villain that isn't there. The only traces to be found are the ones he leaves himself. His plans, the plotline, the mystery structure and the riddles are 100 times more important than his bloody costume, that's the last thing I'd focus on. I probably wouldn't even give him one unless it's the Mike Engel showbiz version, like a game show host or something. Also in regards to the Riddler anyone who complains about accuracy to the comics can seriously go to hell, go watch a Saturday morning cartoon or something. Most people who'd complain wouldn't be able to pick one notable, viable Riddler story anyway, apart from Hush most likely. There really is aren't many great Riddler stories, none that could be well transferred to NolansWorld anyway.

[The Batman]

Since its a very good possibility that Riddler may appear in the third film, how do you think he should be portrayed by Nolan? What comic elements should they keep, and what should they change, if they should change anything?

[Gianakin_]

Well, I guess since Nolan is Nolan, I'd expect him to turn the Riddler into a villain whose main thing is to completely mind-f*** Batman.
I don't know if he should/would make him deadly/deadlier than he is in the comics, but I'd like to see the green attire, albeit in a subtler way (something like TAS) and perhaps a questionmark in the form of a pin.

[Viper81]

How about we hand the reins over to Joel Schumaker and let him give us HIS take on the Riddler?

[batboy99]

because he already did....

[The Batman]

How about we hand the reins over to Joel Schumaker and let him give us HIS take on the Riddler?

Ohhhh...I get it! You're trying to be funny....

[spideymouse]

And I thought MY jokes were bad...

[JackBauer]

Y'know, I don't usually like it when the villain finds out the identity of the hero, and as much as I don't like the story in general, I think Hush dealt with this pretty well.

Batman's identity is pretty much the ultimate riddle, and yet it's the one Riddler won't ever share the answer to, 'cause after all, a riddle everyone knows is worthless.

[Gamingboy]

I'll put up what I wrote in the "Interpretation" thread:




SPOILERS FOR THE DARK KNIGHT

The Riddler


Edward Nashton/Nigma liked figuring things out. He was also obssessed with proving he was smarter then everyone else, causing him to get fired from just about any consulting job he took and forcing him to become a freelance writer, making puzzles and riddles for small-town newspapers and articles for niche magazines. But he was determined to show that he was smarter then everyone, and to prove it, he knew only one way to get the fame he wanted: solve the greatest riddle of all, the identity of the Dark Knight, Batman. It became an obsession for him, with all of his waking hours trying to figure out who the Batman was.

The events of The Dark Knight drove him over the edge. First, Harvey Dent announced he was Batman, causing Nigma to enter a deep depression at the fact that Batman's identity was revealed before he could figure it out. When this turned out to be untrue, Nigma was elated, but became angered when he realized that he had forgotten or destroyed much of his notes about the Batman. The claim by Mister Reese that he knew the Batman's identity further drove Nigma mad. The final straw that pushed Nigma over the edge was the revelation that Batman had killed five people, devastating Nigma, who, during his studies on Batman's identities had begun to identify and almost worship the Batman. Wanting to paradoxically prove his intelligence by figuring out Batman's identity AND clear his hero's name, Nigma took up a fake identity as "The Riddler". Unlike the Scarecrow and the Mob, who are in it for the Money, or the Joker, who just wanted to make the world burn, the Riddler is after information, any and all to get the answers he needs to prove himself.


Basically, I see Riddler as a cross between a obsessive show-off know-it-all and a deranged fan (maybe not Mark David Chapman level of deranged fanhood, I don't exactly see the Riddler trying to kill Batman, but maybe at the level of Herostratus). And since he likely wouldn't show off the fact that he figured out Batman's identity (because a riddle everyone knows isn't much of a riddle), it probably means he is trying to prove things to himself and not so much other people.

Also, I think it'd be neat if the Riddler didn't just leave riddle clues, but also used anagrams, ciphers, trivia questions. I also totally see him always trying not to leave a clue but then turning around at the last second and just jotting something down and leaving it on a vic's body.

[Joker'sHenchman]

Why has no one cited that article where Michael Caine confirms Riddler for the third movie? I can't find it, or else I would. Someone has to know where it is.

[Gamingboy]

Why has no one cited that article where Michael Caine confirms Riddler for the third movie? I can't find it, or else I would. Someone has to know where it is.

I thought it was Oldman....

[Superhero 101]

The trick with the Riddler is not portraying him as a Joker wannabe or a garish buffoon. By making him Batman's intellectual equivalent and a possible replacement hero for the city, he becomes more of a threat to Batman. What if Edward Nygma is brought in to find out who Batman really is and help the cops get him, but he secretly has his own nefarious agenda? Primary villain Talia al Ghul doesn't have to know that Bruce was Ra's pupil or is Batman, so her seeking Riddler's help would make that much more sense then. Whomever that next villain is their job will be to test Batman. Ra's al Ghul did so by seeing if Batman's compassion was also his weakness; the Joker pushed Batman to the brink of breaking his one rule (no killing) and almost revealing his true identity. Seeing as how the Riddler has always posed questions to Batman, he seems like the right villain to continue Nolan's tradition of testing Batman's ethical boundaries.


Not Bad.

[Joker'sHenchman]

I thought it was Oldman....

Yeah, I think you might be right.

[The Riddler]

one thing i think i hope they address is that riddler's main goal is not to be just smarter than everyone, it's for everyone, especially batman, to realize and submit to his superior intellect.

he basically strives for the attention and recognition of his talents. i don't know that a saw-lite version of riddler would necessarily be a terrible idea, but it certainly wouldn't fit the character.

[MercuryEnigma]

I'll put up what I wrote in the "Interpretation" thread:




Basically, I see Riddler as a cross between a obsessive show-off know-it-all and a deranged fan (maybe not Mark David Chapman level of deranged fanhood, I don't exactly see the Riddler trying to kill Batman, but maybe at the level of Herostratus). And since he likely wouldn't show off the fact that he figured out Batman's identity (because a riddle everyone knows isn't much of a riddle), it probably means he is trying to prove things to himself and not so much other people.

Also, I think it'd be neat if the Riddler didn't just leave riddle clues, but also used anagrams, ciphers, trivia questions. I also totally see him always trying not to leave a clue but then turning around at the last second and just jotting something down and leaving it on a vic's body.

I like the deranged fan idea.

If I was doing the script, I'd make Riddler an genius detective brought in to replace the dead MCU officers and help in the hunt for Batman. He's obsessed with crossword puzzles, trivia, riddles etc. and considers the identity of Batman to be the ultimate riddle, which he then becomes obsessed with. So its a struggle between Riddler (who is trying to unmask batman) and Gordon (who is trying to protect his identity). And you're convinced Riddler's a good guy. He and Batman eventually work together on this case of almost-perfect murders and crimes, neither of them can figure out.

I'd make this movie as close to a mystery/detective movie as possible. And get really Noir and close to the detective roots. So much so, that even the audience is questioning who the murderer is at times (thinking maybe Two-face is back? Maybe it's the joker...Maybe a new villain?) figuring it along with Batman, rather than Batman being one step ahead of the audience.

Then the audience finds out its Riddler. He's been committing crimes under a pseudonym E. Nygma to match wits with batman so he can catch batman off guard and figure out the greatest riddle.

[Doc Samson]

I think it'd be a serious mistake to try and make the Riddler a "bad-ass" or "frightening" character. He's not a funky terrorist, he's not a mass-murderer or a creepy serial killer. If you make him that, you're doing the same thing BF did: ripping off the Joker, just in a different way.

It's a common mistake in superhero fiction that for a character to be interesting, he has to be made "darker". That's just not true. To me, the Riddler is interesting as the frustrated brainiac who's taken his compulsions too far, who isn't as big or as prominent a threat as Batman's other villains, but who therefor has the chance to slip by now and then and be underestimated.

I don't respect the Saw movies, because they had a genuinely interesting concept and started cheating on their own premise almost from the get-go. So taking cues from Jigsaw for the Riddler seems like a bad idea to me. Futhermore, the characters' psychology almost couldn't be more different, so it's already a tenuous stretch trying to transpose the one's modus operandi onto the other's...

And just for the record, The Da Vinci Code and National Treasure in no way have any complexity. If anything, the machinations in those movies were only a few steps up from the Riddler's pathetically simple riddles in BF...

Great post, but your first paragraph illustrates exactly why I think the Riddler is a second-tier villain. For the next film, I feel they need a much bigger threat, and while I can get on board with him being like the Scarecrow in BB as far as working in tandem with someone, I don't see him as the main bad guy. But since neither BB or TDK had just one villain, I don't think the next film would break that routine.

As far as the interpretation though, I'm actually more excited to see how they would do the Riddler as opposed to any other villain, it would be interesting. I kinda like the OCD version who absolutely must leave his riddles at the crime scene. I think a lot of actors could do the role well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Nepenthes]

I agree with these posts

Basically, I see Riddler as a cross between a obsessive show-off know-it-all and a deranged fan. And since he likely wouldn't show off the fact that he figured out Batman's identity (because a riddle everyone knows isn't much of a riddle), it probably means he is trying to prove things to himself and not so much other people.

Also, I think it'd be neat if the Riddler didn't just leave riddle clues, but also used anagrams, ciphers, trivia questions. I also totally see him always trying not to leave a clue but then turning around at the last second and just jotting something down and leaving it on a vic's body.

If I was doing the script, I'd make Riddler an genius detective brought in to replace the dead MCU officers and help in the hunt for Batman. He's obsessed with crossword puzzles, trivia, riddles etc. and considers the identity of Batman to be the ultimate riddle, which he then becomes obsessed with. So its a struggle between Riddler (who is trying to unmask batman) and Gordon (who is trying to protect his identity). And you're convinced Riddler's a good guy. He and Batman eventually work together on this case of almost-perfect murders and crimes, neither of them can figure out.

I'd make this movie as close to a mystery/detective movie as possible. And get really Noir and close to the detective roots. So much so, that even the audience is questioning who the murderer is at times (thinking maybe Two-face is back? Maybe it's the joker...Maybe a new villain?) figuring it along with Batman, rather than Batman being one step ahead of the audience.

Then the audience finds out its Riddler. He's been committing crimes under a pseudonym E. Nygma to match wits with batman so he can catch batman off guard and figure out the greatest riddle.

^ I agree with The Batman, the concept of the Riddler is much more powerful and attractive than what's actually been executed in the comics.

If he's used in film again it should be far beyond and above what we're familair with. Take the idea of a man who can outsmart Batman, who is obsessively thorough, resourceful and manipulative and yet fundamentally insecure at the bottom of it all...and lets see what can he do with a whole city laid out as his pawns

Riddler should be the villain that isn't there. The only traces to be found are the ones he leaves himself. His plans, the plotline, the mystery structure and the riddles are 100 times more important than his bloody costume, that's the last thing I'd focus on. I probably wouldn't even give him one unless it's the Mike Engel showbiz version, like a game show host or something. Also anyone who complains about accuracy to the comics Riddler can seriously go to hell, go watch a Saturday morning cartoon or something. Most people who'd complain wouldn't be able to pick one notable, viable Riddler story anyway, apart from Hush most likely. There really aren't many great Riddler stories, none that could be well transferred to NolansWorld anyway.

[HaRdCoReJaG]

I'd like to see the Riddler in the 3rd one...esp if they plan to market the next one as they did TDK....Instead of all having the Riddler hack the other sites ala The Joker we could get random riddles...It would probally be best to do a completely different marketing campaign with a new flick to not seem repetitive, but random riddles would still be a nice touch during the campaign...If they wanted to the story line is almost there for The Riddler to found out the secrets of Reese and Ramirez and use them in his little game...

[HaRdCoReJaG]

And as far as the costume goes? I'd like to see something similar to B:TAS and some of the past comic incarnations... maybe a hat with a ? and then a ? Tie, then just the green jacket with black bottoms with the optional purple gloves and mask...and if they wanted to go there the The "?" Staff...

[Quinzel]

The riddler was a failed criminal before he was taken seriously, then became a darker character.

IF reese is riddler, it was explain the whole Black-mailing the b-man thing.

[Gamingboy]

I see the Riddler killing Reese in the first act.

[MercuryEnigma]

Who's Reese?

[RonStoppablefan]

I'm fine with the Riddler, just make him more serious of a villain though and maybe not the main villain for the third film. Maybe have him get the Two Face role were we explore how he's made and such, could be good. For the main villain I say either ClayFace or um that guy that looks like the grave taker. I forget his name, dang.

[The Riddler]

I'm fine with the Riddler, just make him more serious of a villain though and maybe not the main villain for the third film. Maybe have him get the Two Face role were we explore how he's made and such, could be good. For the main villain I say either ClayFace or um that guy that looks like the grave taker. I forget his name, dang.

clayface is not happening in nolan's realistic universe.

[DunDun]

How bout a Riddler that is kinda of like slingblade but more smarter and creapyer. but the riddler needs a mask.

[StorminNorman]

How about a Riddler that is...you know...the Riddler?

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

How about a Riddler that is...you know...the Riddler?

Which characterization is your preference?

Physically, I'd like something like the Riddler from the animated series. An average build, but not scrawny like in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory. As for his role, being used by either the cops or the mob to unravel the mystery of the Batman would be cool, but he should have some underlying motive and maybe sell out one side or the other.

Just curious: I've heard clayface thrown around a lot in light of the movie's storyline for Two-Face. Why clayface, of all villains?

[Nepenthes]

If Batman is a hunted outlaw now then the Riddler would be most useful as a new 'good guy' in town, helping police hunt the Batman, putting a media spotling on him, analyzing him live on TV, solving crimes in a reality show, crimes that he secretly helped plan even. This lets him wear a funny costume as well. It's the weirder more exploitative side of 'escalation'.

[jmc]

http://joshmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/batman_3_tease_02.jpg

[MrSmith1114]

Nepenthes, I really like your idea. It seems like it could work very well if they decide to do another film.

I especially like the idea of him helping to solve crimes that he himself plans. It would be a very interesting way to go.

[Doc Samson]

http://joshmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/batman_3_tease_02.jpg

You know, one of my gripes about the Riddler is how would they do his suit, but if they went for something like this, it definitely could work

[Gianakin_]

If Batman is a hunted outlaw now then the Riddler would be most useful as a new 'good guy' in town, helping police hunt the Batman, putting a media spotling on him, analyzing him live on TV, solving crimes in a reality show, crimes that he secretly helped plan even. This lets him wear a funny costume as well. It's the weirder more exploitative side of 'escalation'.

That would be a very good interpretation of the character.

[Gamingboy]

Another thing I think about the Riddler is that he isn't a born killer. Yes, he kills people, every criminal in comics does that, but the Riddler, he's far less of a hands-on type. I mean, like I have a hard time seeing him killing a guy like the Joker does. I don't see him doing the pencil "magic trick", for example. He'd probably want to use his cane as much as possible, not want to touch folks, since he's basically a insane geek (some people memorize baseball stats and comic book continuity... the Riddler's into crime and clues).

[Sedorna]

Here's a bit of an idea I have about The Riddler. Please, agree or disagree with it as you will. What does the Riddler want? To be Batman's intellectual superior. He can go about this various ways, but somehow, I don't think asking Batman, "Quick! What's the square root of pie divided by the number of miles across the Atlantic ocean?" is really going to work for him. (That, and it'd make for a really lousy movie.) Also, committing random crimes and leaving calling cards seems rather corny, to me.

One way that the Riddler could prove his superiority to Batman is to force Batman to admit that he was wrong in taking the fall for Harvey Dent. Now, I'm not saying that the Riddler should start off knowing everything...but he's a smart guy. My Riddler should be able to figure things out. However, he's also the sort of person who defines himself by other people. The previous villians, well, Ra's al Ghul and the Joker, at least, knew who they were and what they stood for (order and chaos, respectively.) Since, for whatever reason, he came to admire Batman's skills, the only way he can prove himself better than Batman is to prove Batman wrong. And it doesn't matter what Batman did. If Batman had gone, "Hey, folks, Harvey went crazy and killed everybody, but I'm still an awesome hero!" then the Riddler would be wanting to prove that Batman is, in fact, the criminal.

Interestingly enough, the fact that he wants to prove Batman wrong about what he did for Harvey may make him both Batman's foe and savior. He wants to defeat Batman, even if that ultimately means that Batman realizes that people are stronger than he thought they were, and the people realize that Batman isn't a bad guy.

[DawnWarrior]

Here's a bit of an idea I have about The Riddler. Please, agree or disagree with it as you will. What does the Riddler want? To be Batman's intellectual superior. He can go about this various ways, but somehow, I don't think asking Batman, "Quick! What's the square root of pie divided by the number of miles across the Atlantic ocean?" is really going to work for him. (That, and it'd make for a really lousy movie.) Also, committing random crimes and leaving calling cards seems rather corny, to me.

One way that the Riddler could prove his superiority to Batman is to force Batman to admit that he was wrong in taking the fall for Harvey Dent. Now, I'm not saying that the Riddler should start off knowing everything...but he's a smart guy. My Riddler should be able to figure things out. However, he's also the sort of person who defines himself by other people. The previous villians, well, Ra's al Ghul and the Joker, at least, knew who they were and what they stood for (order and chaos, respectively.) Since, for whatever reason, he came to admire Batman's skills, the only way he can prove himself better than Batman is to prove Batman wrong. And it doesn't matter what Batman did. If Batman had gone, "Hey, folks, Harvey went crazy and killed everybody, but I'm still an awesome hero!" then the Riddler would be wanting to prove that Batman is, in fact, the criminal.

Interestingly enough, the fact that he wants to prove Batman wrong about what he did for Harvey may make him both Batman's foe and savior. He wants to defeat Batman, even if that ultimately means that Batman realizes that people are stronger than he thought they were, and the people realize that Batman isn't a bad guy.
Fascinating. Complex, though; I'm having trouble seeing exactly how that plays out in a movie. Can you attach that to a plot, or think of any specific scenes?

[Sedorna]

Fascinating. Complex, though; I'm having trouble seeing exactly how that plays out in a movie. Can you attach that to a plot, or think of any specific scenes?

Good point. I'd actually like to modify my earlier theory. While he should want to prove Batman wrong, his main goal should be to prove himself superior to everybody else, and Batman should, in his mind, be only one part of it, but a very important part of it. The way to prove himself superior is to have them all question their very existence. If they go crazy and kill everybody, or if they hold hands and sing, "I'd like to buy the world a coke" it's all the same to him. As long as they question who, what, and why they are...and preferably come up with the answer he decides is best for them.

The Riddler, physically, isn't very strong. I like his cane, and I like the thought of him needing it, so he physically can't beat anyone. So he'll do it with words. He is a manipulator of everybody in Gotham City. He should be extremely charismatic, and his riddles involve causing people to question their identity and what they believe in. Sure, asking "What walks on four legs in the morning, two in the afternoon, and three at night?" might be a riddle, but so what? Short-sheeting a bed is a practical joke, and the Joker wasn't quite known for short-sheeting beds.:oldrazz:

What is a riddle? I'll take the liberty of copying from Wikipedia for this. A riddle is a statement or question having a double or veiled meaning, put forth as a puzzle to be solved. Riddles are of two types: enigmas, which are problems generally expressed in metaphorical or allegorical language that require ingenuity and careful thinking for their solution, and conundrums, which are questions relying for their effects on punning in either the question or the answer. So a character like the Riddler shouldn't do most of the activity himself, but he should be extremely charismatic, and able to manipulate other people. What sort of job should he have? Perhaps some sort of private eye on TV, who can also have some sort of underworld connection. That'd enable him to influence everybody...cops, robbers, and the person on the street. He can ask questions or make statements which, while ostensibly about one thing, is actually designed to make them question something deeper.

I find it interesting that the previous main villains knew what people were like, and told them so. Maybe not in so many words, but in essence, it went:

Ra's Al Ghul: You're evil and I will destroy you.
Joker: You're evil and you'll destroy yourselves.

So, we've had villains trying to actively destroy Gotham City from both the outside and the inside. But we've never had a villain saying, "Well, what are you? You go around living your little life, but can you tell anybody what you really are?"

[The Penguin]

And as far as the costume goes? I'd like to see something similar to B:TAS and some of the past comic incarnations... maybe a hat with a ? and then a ? Tie, then just the green jacket with black bottoms with the optional purple gloves and mask...and if they wanted to go there the The "?" Staff...

yeah definitely somewhere along the lines of the Animated Series or the "modern" comic books [some similarities]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/Animated_Riddler.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/60/Riddler_007.jpg (http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/60/Riddler_007.jpg)

[The Geek Vault]

The guy who plays Ben on lost the way he acts kind of reminds me of riddler.

[ArmsHeldOut]

I'd like The Riddler to be loosely based on real life "theatrical" serial murderer -The Zodiac Killer.
What do you folks think?

For those who don't know much about TZK...


The Zodiac Killer is a serial killer who operated in Northern California in the late 1960s. His identity remains unknown. The Zodiac coined his name in a series of taunting letters he sent to the press. His letters included four cryptograms (or ciphers), three of which have yet to be solved.

The Zodiac murdered five known victims in Benicia, Vallejo, Lake Berryessa, and San Francisco between December 1968 and October 1969. Four men and three women between the ages of 16 and 29 were targeted. Others have also been suspected to be Zodiac victims, albeit inconclusively. The lack of consensus about the number of victims, the inability of law enforcement to crack the ciphers, and the fact that several people have inconclusively been portrayed as "persons of interest" or possible suspects, has elicited this case's designation as a perfect crime.

In April 2004, the San Francisco Police Department marked the case "inactive", but reopened it some time before March 2007. The case remains open in other jurisdictions as well.

[MercuryEnigma]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m227/MercuryEnigma/RiddlerJimParsons.jpg

What do you think about Jim Parsons?

[nolan's roll'n]

Johnny Depp. :woot:

[Majik1387]

How about a Riddler that is...you know...the Riddler?
You crazy.:o

[Rishi]

I'm not too keen on the Riddler. All of these ideas seem too villain-centric, and I think the focus should go back to Bruce for this film.

If they do use him, though - the modern costume (proper suit, question mark only on cane) is definitely the one to use.

[seifergt]

He should not be the focus of the movie, he is a little dated, and this seems too, obvious of a villian choice. As far as clayface goes, ign had an interesting take. He is a brilliant actor, who can impersonate people. So, he would commit a crime dressed convincingly as Gordon, able to imitate his voice and manuerisms. I thought it was a decent take on him.

[Sedorna]

If they do use him, though - the modern costume (proper suit, question mark only on cane) is definitely the one to use.

Oh, yes. And his derby hat. I just can't picture the Riddler without his derby hat. It's so dapper!

[Majik1387]

I'm not too keen on the Riddler. All of these ideas seem too villain-centric, and I think the focus should go back to Bruce for this film.

If they do use him, though - the modern costume (proper suit, question mark only on cane) is definitely the one to use.
I don't see why his outfit can't have question marks on it. Joker and Two-Face's outfits were pretty faithful without looking bad.

[Sedorna]

I don't see why his outfit can't have question marks on it. Joker and Two-Face's outfits were pretty faithful without looking bad.

True. I think that having huge question marks all over it does seem pretty silly, I wouldn't mind question marks on the tie and perhaps a question-mark shaped lapel pin or tie clip or something.

[Majik1387]

I'm not even talkin bout lots of question marks over his suit. Seriously, supposed fans who think he always has to have a lot of "?"s on him in the comics obviously need to get over the Gorshin and Carrey Riddler, because these would look fine onscreen:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/cf/250px-RiddlerGA.JPG
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7089/r2fb.jpg
http://www.kieranyanner.com/cards/TheRiddler.jpg

[Spider-Fan]

Not only can the Riddler wear a green suit and look fine, I in fact think that is the only route to go with the character. No stupid one piece with question marks.

[The Penguin]

Not only can the Riddler where a green suit and look fine, I in fact think that is the only route to go with the character. No stupid one piece with question marks.

haha... agreed... good call

[jmc]

I don't see why his outfit can't have question marks on it. Joker and Two-Face's outfits were pretty faithful without looking bad.

True. I think that having huge question marks all over it does seem pretty silly, I wouldn't mind question marks on the tie and perhaps a question-mark shaped lapel pin or tie clip or something.

It can have '?' on it in some form, it's just has to be subtle, maybe in the form of small patterning or combined with some other element. A tie with '?' patterning is probably the easiest thing to do, but maybe also a piece of jewelery, like a ring with a '?', maybe even a tattoo.

[Majik1387]

Not only can the Riddler wear a green suit and look fine, I in fact think that is the only route to go with the character. No stupid one piece with question marks.
If Batman is not even in a one-piece, why would you even think Riddler would be allowed? :whatever:

[Spider-Fan]

If Batman is not even in a one-piece, why would you even think Riddler would be allowed? :whatever:

I don't see why anyone would want to see him in that outfit. The green suit with a question mark somewhere is much more realistic, and makes the Riddler seem more serious to me. That one piece thing always made me think he looked goofy and not at all menacing (no smart man would wear that!)

[Majik1387]

I don't see why anyone would want to see him in that outfit. The green suit is much more realistic, and makes the Riddler seem more serious to me. That one piece thing always made me think he looked goofy and not at all menacing (no smart man would wear that!)
I'm not saying anyone would want to see the green one piece, but if Batman doesn't even have the grey one piece with the breifs, etc, why would people even think there's a possibility that Riddler, of all characters, will be in a one piece?

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not saying anyone would want to see the green one piece, but if Batman doesn't even have the grey one piece with the breifs, etc, why would people even think there's a possibility that Riddler, of all characters, will be in a one piece?

I agree. If Nolan has shown us anything, he doesn't want goofy looking characters. He wants their looks to be more realistic.

[YiYaoYue]

I agree. If Nolan has shown us anything, he doesn't want goofy looking characters. He wants their looks to be more realistic.

For comedy I think it would be funny to see Rainn Wilson (Dwight Shrute) be Riddler always starting with Question:________?

I'm wondering if Riddler should always talk in riddles and when he's Edward talk normally? Man must be headache trying to think of every line as riddles.

[Conebone69]

Not only can the Riddler wear a green suit and look fine, I in fact think that is the only route to go with the character. No stupid one piece with question marks.
I doubt nolan would do that... hope not

[the gael]

http://joshmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/batman_3_tease_02.jpg

absolutely amazing work and very interesting ideas. But I think something is missing. I made some very little changes to your marvellous art. adding him a mask ( but retaining the " geek face " you made which is so cool ) and some tie pins ( you allready know how they look )

Now what do you think of this :

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9403/tennantriddlerbh1.jpg

[elgato]

glasses are fine, tho i woudn't bother if they used a domino mask, good work again jmc!

[Carmine Falcone]

I like The Riddler. His character was fabulously done in The Animated Series. IF there ever is a Riddler in this franchise, what is needed is someone who can actually bring something to the character. Something new. 'Cause we've seen Gorshin's and Carrey's giggling-screaming Riddler and TAS' more arisocratic, snobbish Riddler. So I think this new Riddler should stray a bit from those two angles (the former especially). There are alot of people who could be the Ridller. So it's a hard choice. Some time ago I hears someone mention Casey Affleck. That'd be good, or interesting to say the least.

[protocida]

http://www.comicon.com/pulse/images_07/41bmcd6.JPG

End of discussion. :word:

BTW: A Tuxedo insted a raincot, no shinning efects and a tie with a question Mark.

[protocida]

The Riddler would be a manipulative man that wants Gotham City mayor to give him all the money of the city safes. To make sure everyone knows him as a real threat, he woul cause mass panic threw hacking attacks, like destroying all computers from Gotham City airport and crashing the airplanes, or shut down the city energy. And he would also kill public figures, letting riddles appointing to his next crime. Batman gets envolved and solves one of his riddles, saving the next victim. Riddle get's amazed by finally founding someone who can intelectually challenge him. Discover Batman's secret identity becomes Riddler's obssession. He founds out Mr. Reese is trying to sell Batman's secret to the crime bosses and kills him.

On the final act, Riddler faces Batman, that reveals his identity before the villain can solve it. Edward get's mad because the Dark Knight just spoiled him the mothert of all puzzles and he ends up being send to Arkham. Even there, he does't tell anyone. That game is only between him and Bruce Wayne. And he will have his revenge.

[John Connor]

I Dont want riddle to be in this if he's gonna be crazy like in Batman Forever, he needs to be more serious sense joker was crazy

[Sedorna]

The Riddler would be a manipulative man that wants Gotham City mayor to give him all the money of the city safes.

Really? Somehow that seems disappointingly petty, wanting all the money in Gotham City. Both Ra's al Ghul and the Joker had "higher" aspirations. Wanting money is ok for a mob moss or secondary villain, but not the main villain, IMHO. The main villain should have a reason that most people wouldn't have for doing stuff. In the past Nolan movies, it was "I'll bring the world back to the way it should be" and "I'll show you you're all as crazy and evil and twisted as me". So "I'll get oodles of money!" doesn't fit.

Plus, is Gotham City all that well known for its wealth? Why Gotham City? Why not some other place?

I do like the idea of him being a manipulator, though.

[The Riddler]

the riddler is all about proving himself to the world and especially batman. wealth is only secondary. i loved, for example, in TAS, he was wealthy and popular after launching his toy line but he couldn't live without beating batman and proving he was superior intellectually.

also, as for the costume, question marks all over his suit would be ridiculous; i don't like it even in the comics. jim lee's riddler is the way to go, imo.

[The Riddler]

He should not be the focus of the movie, he is a little dated, and this seems too, obvious of a villian choice. As far as clayface goes, ign had an interesting take. He is a brilliant actor, who can impersonate people. So, he would commit a crime dressed convincingly as Gordon, able to imitate his voice and manuerisms. I thought it was a decent take on him.

since when did the riddler become the chameleon?

[flickchick85]

^That suggestion was about Clayface, not the Riddler.

[magicangel1989]

I would actually like to see Michael Emerson play the Riddler. If you don't know who the guy is, he plays Benjamin Linus on the hit tv show LOST.
I can actually see the guy dressed in green and leaving clues for the Batman.

[Keyser Soze]

I don't see why anyone would want to see him in that outfit. The green suit with a question mark somewhere is much more realistic, and makes the Riddler seem more serious to me. That one piece thing always made me think he looked goofy and not at all menacing (no smart man would wear that!)

Aw man....I better go change out of this skintight green unitard covered in question marks then. :csad:

But yeah, green suit all the way. And replace the domino mask with purple-tinted sunglasses, like his current look in "Detective Comics".

[Nepenthes]

I don't think Riddler needs to be a wuss. Why can't he be genius and a little brawny too, with deep knowledge of the body and its maintenance, mediation, boxing, calasthinetics, protein shakes and such. He knows that a healthy body is a healthy mind, and he wants to be the best.

I dunno when I look at some Frank Gorshin pics he just seems a bit tougher than most people think of the Riddler. He looks like a brawler, a real bandit. He was drawn this way in some of the 80's comics too. He has that male vitality.

[Spider-Fan]

Aw man....I better go change out of this skintight green unitard covered in question marks then. :csad:

But yeah, green suit all the way. And replace the domino mask with purple-tinted sunglasses, like his current look in "Detective Comics".

LOL...yeah, there is really no debate on this one.

the riddler is all about proving himself to the world and especially batman. wealth is only secondary. i loved, for example, in TAS, he was wealthy and popular after launching his toy line but he couldn't live without beating batman and proving he was superior intellectually.

also, as for the costume, question marks all over his suit would be ridiculous; i don't like it even in the comics. jim lee's riddler is the way to go, imo.

I heavily agree with this post :up:

I don't think Riddler needs to be a wuss. Why can't he be genius and a little brawny too, with deep knowledge of the body and its maintenance, mediation, boxing, calasthinetics, protein shakes and such. He knows that a healthy body is a healthy mind, and he wants to be the best.

I dunno when I look at some Frank Gorshin pics he just seems a bit tougher than most people think of the Riddler. He looks like a brawler, a real bandit. He was drawn this way in some of the 80's comics too. He has that male vitality.

I don't think he should be a wuss, just not someone who gets his hands dirty, nor one who feels he needs to get physically involved. I don't think Riddler needs to be really fit or anything. I say make him not an awesome fighter, but good enough to where if an average person tried to throw fists with him, Riddler would pound them.

However, I would not object to your way either. It would still work with my elitist, smartest man alive thing I would try to do with the Riddler.

[PyroChamber]

If there was chance that the Riddler would be chosen as the new villain in a 3rd Nolan Batman movie, do you think he should have a question mark cane like he's had in the last few years or do you think that would just be too silly for Nolan's Riddler?

[OwlBoy]

Meh, cane isn't terribly important. He could go without it or he could have it because:

His whole persona is being over the top and showy so he has a few kind of costume pieces just for theatrics

It actually does something like has a concealed weapon or remote control for something

Or its just a walking stick

[marukisu]

The Riddler needs his cane.

[Arsh]

Ooooh... how about we start him off without his cane, then Batman throws him like he did Maroni, and he needs a cane cause of that.

Also, it'd be hilarious to see Batman drop another person like that.

[Jordacar]

Kinda like this psycho-genius
http://www.fox.com/house/images/home_hugh.pnghttp://www.noseque.net/wordpress/media/imagenes/house2.jpg

[Jordacar]

Come to think of it, Dr. House does have a few workable Riddler like qualities, namely taking every opportunity to prove he's the smartest guy ever.

[ManofmyWord]

http://coven1013.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tennant_2.jpg



http://popvultures.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/david-tennant-specs.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slugworth118/DavidTennant.jpg

FTW.
He screams Riddler.

[Ziggyman]

http://coven1013.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tennant_2.jpg



http://popvultures.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/david-tennant-specs.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slugworth118/DavidTennant.jpg

FTW.
He screams Riddler.

Yes...Indeed he does...

And just a thought...What's better...The Riddler in full get up with domino mask...Or glasses?

[Jordacar]

"I'm the Riddler!"
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/tennant05/a1/d1.jpg
[kocks eyebrow]
"D'ya have a problem with that?"

[ManofmyWord]

Yes...Indeed he does...

And just a thought...What's better...The Riddler in full get up with domino mask...Or glasses?

I'd say purple glasses. More realistic, And I'm Sure a cocky Riddler wouldn't even care about a "secret identity". No villain in this series has yet.

But keep the green suit. No tights.

[ManofmyWord]

http://joshmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/batman_3_tease_02.jpg

[Ziggyman]

I'd say purple glasses. More realistic, And I'm Sure a cocky Riddler wouldn't even care about a "secret identity". No villain in this series has yet.

But keep the green suit. No tights.

Possibly...And indeed...No tights...

...Green Suit would be perfect with white pinstripes...

Bowling hat or no...?!?!

[Jordacar]

The hat could be last. Something he grabs to complete the ensemble

[Ziggyman]

Alright...Orange hair or no...

...I like Tennant's look already...

[Majik1387]

Why would he have orange hair? :huh:

[Jordacar]

Because the last time the Riddler was on the big screen, he had orange hair.

Now please don't anyone defile this thread with a pic.

[Ziggyman]

Because the last time the Riddler was on the big screen, he had orange hair.

Now please don't anyone defile this thread with a pic.

I think in TAS also...

[OwlBoy]

I think it was the fact that Frank Gorshin had red hair that look has carried over, it adds a bit of character when most comic book characters are either black hair or brunette

Edit: and Tennent does have naturally reddish hair

http://www.daemonstv.com/images/bbc/david_tennant1.jpg

[Jordacar]

I think in TAS also...Not at first...
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/media/gallery/27.jpg

[Majik1387]

I think it was the fact that Frank Gorshin had red hair that look has carried over, it adds a bit of character when most comic book characters are either black hair or brunette
Gorshin had red hair?

[OwlBoy]

Auburn yeah basically

This is the best picture I could find where the color is discernible, I apologize about the size

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/368/frank_gorshin_riddler3.jpg

[Majik1387]

Size is no problem for me. I don't mind Riddler being a redhead.

[BigSams50]

http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/stars-411-johnny-depp-300x400-101206.jpg (http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/stars-411-johnny-depp-300x400-101206.jpg)

http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/riddler.jpg (http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/riddler.jpg)

[Superhero 101]

Anyone read the Yahoo article yet?


Bring on Batman 3
by Mike Krumboltz
August 4, 2008 03:26:42 PM

"The Dark Knight" is still on the tip of everyone's tongue. But now, instead of folks breathlessly asking each other if they'd seen it, talk has turned to speculation over Batman's next foe. Who's it gonna be?

iVillage is reporting that the Caped Crusader may take on the Riddler in "Batman 3." According to the rumor mill, Johnny Depp might sign on to play the nefarious super-criminal. But caveat emptor—this could be just as false as the one about Crispin Glover playing the Joker.

Slashfilm notes that there are additional possibilities floating around. For instance, Phillip Seymour Hoffman may play the Penguin or Angelina Jolie could don Catwoman's skin-tight suit. Truth or fiction, fanboys around the world must be having a heart attack at the mere possibility.

Still, the "official" rumor mill is just one of the ways superfans are checking in on the next Batman flick. Many seek the scoop themselves. We've noticed impressive searches on "batman 3 rumors," "dark knight sequel casting rumors," and "batman's next villain."

That last query is very telling. People clearly want to know the answer, but we doubt even the filmmakers have decided. To that end, may we offer the studio execs this humble piece of Search-informed advice: Go with Catwoman. She's far-and-away the most popular baddie and there are already a slew of searches on possible cast members including Jessica Biel, Amy Adams, and, wait for it, Maggie Gyllenhaal. Do fans think Rachel Dawes, Bruce Wayne's one-and-only, was really the Catwoman all along?

[ThePoisonPuppet]

If they made Rachel Dawes Catwoman I might have to go and punch Chris Nolan in the face.

[GL1]

Tennant would be a great riddler.

Depp would be an epic riddler.

I had it in my head to have the Riddler communicate with questions, subtle, smooth, almost playing with it, like he knows what he's doing... but he communicates like he's always playing "the Question game."

[ManofmyWord]

As much as I love Johnny Depp in pretty much everything he does, I feel having him or any other huge star would draw away from the story. Everybody cast so far are somewhat famous, but not HUGE.

But I Will agree that he would've been a great riddler...If Tim Burton had directed Batman Forever.

[GhostPoet]

Depp would do great as the Riddler. But also the dude who plays Ben from Lost...i'd go with either of those.

[Ziggyman]

I just had a thought...Maybe...

...The Riddler could be a writer/editor for The Gotham Times...This would allow him to put all of riddles on paper for Batman to read and solve or something...

...Seems more realistic than a man who leaves riddles in obscure places...

Just spit balling some ideas on how to do The Riddler realistically and to get away from all this speculation on casting...There is already a thread on that!

Any more ideas on how to do this character...?

[TNC9852002]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2900/bat3illustrationpu0.jpg

-TNC

[marty mcfly]

http://coven1013.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tennant_2.jpg



http://popvultures.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/david-tennant-specs.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slugworth118/DavidTennant.jpg

FTW.
He screams Riddler.

Possibly, but did Heath Ledger "scream" the Joker? Cillian Murphy didn't scream Scarecrow (other than he's just a skinny little guy). And not too many people expected Aaron Eckhart to be picked for Two Face. I don't think Nolan is going to hit us with the "obvious" choices for these villains. Which is why there's no way Johnny Depp, or Angelina Jolie will be in a Nolan-Directed Batman film. Too obvious, too famous, too everything.

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Though Tennant did express interest, which as far as I know, officially or unoffically Jolie and Depp haven't...That ups his chances considerably I would say.

[Obsidian]

I'd love Tennant to be The Riddler. But unfortunately, I think it's just a dream.

[nolan's roll'n]

Anyone read the Yahoo article yet?

Unfortunately this won't happen, I believe it was David Goyer who has already ruled out the Riddler, Catwoman, and the Penguin for the next one. He said that he has a theme for a certain villain but this villain will be not as popular as any of those but true Batman fans will know him. I'm thinking Black Mask.

[AlterEgo]

Just a thought I had about the Riddler, I don't know if anyone has already posted this but, maybe they didn't have a scene in TDK where they find Joker's hideout and all these Haha's are on the walls because they want to save it for the Riddler, but with the haha's replaced with question marks, riddles, etc.

[Firm18]

Well, I'd like to see a new refreshed riddler. Maybe an older-kind of guy which is just tired of life. And he knows that Batman isn't that murderer that they say he is in TV (This happens about 2-3 weeks after TDK). So he wonders why and keeps on sending messages, riddles to tv, police, mayor and etc. You get the idea. My three favorite actors for the role are:

Hugh Laurie
Johnny Deep
David Tennant.

So far I made a manip of Laurie (notice the writing on his hand - in every seen with Riddler we would see something different on his hands)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1701/riddlerij3.jpg

[batboy99]

Anyone read the Yahoo article yet?
Those are some of the worst choices for Catwoman ive ever heard of.
Biel? Definetly not Catwoman material.
Amy Adams? C'mon now, yes shes good looknig and yes shes a hell of an actress, but as Catwoman? Pff

And WTF? Maggie Gyllenhaal?! 1, Rachel is dead, she exploded and if she were to come back, she would look like two face. and 2, even if Maggie was never cast as Rachel, Maggie, while cute IMO, and a good actress, is definetly not sexy enough for Catwoman. I rather have Holmes as Catwoman... wait, no I lied.

[Etienne]

Though Tennant did express interest, which as far as I know, officially or unoffically Jolie and Depp haven't...That ups his chances considerably I would say.
I doubt it, the guy who's banging Megan Fox has expressed interest but I don't see that upping his chances.
Those are some of the worst choices for Catwoman ive ever heard of.
Biel? Definetly not Catwoman material.
Amy Adams? C'mon now, yes shes good looknig and yes shes a hell of an actress, but as Catwoman? Pff
Maybe Rose Byrne?

[Carmine Falcone]

Unfortunately this won't happen, I believe it was David Goyer who has already ruled out the Riddler, Catwoman, and the Penguin for the next one. He said that he has a theme for a certain villain but this villain will be not as popular as any of those but true Batman fans will know him. I'm thinking Black Mask.

Where do you get this info from? Not to be a prick or anything, but this is very, very vague and seems to be based on....nothing. Do you know something we don't? Link?

[nolan's roll'n]

Hugh Laurie as the Riddler? Hmm interesting........

[shadowdog]

blerg no! I hate Hugh Laurie. SOmething about his face makes me want to hit him.

[Gianakin_]

My main concern about Laurie would be him playing House too much. I mean, smart, calculating, american accent (probably). There are, of course, different ways to portray a smart and calculating person, but I can't help thinking that he'd resort to a House-like persona.

I stated all of the above speculating that Nolan would go for a TAS-like interpretation of the Riddler.

[Jordacar]

I think that Dr. House has a lot of qualities that could easily be applied to Riddler, but I don't see Laurie in the role at all.

[PyroChamber]

Since the one phrase used for the Joker was "Why So Serious?" what could be use for the Riddler? Simply "Riddle Me This"?

[Ziggyman]

Yep..."Riddle Me This"...Should be the phrase...Unless there is a better one...?!?!

[Crook]

Possibly, but did Heath Ledger "scream" the Joker? Cillian Murphy didn't scream Scarecrow (other than he's just a skinny little guy). And not too many people expected Aaron Eckhart to be picked for Two Face. I don't think Nolan is going to hit us with the "obvious" choices for these villains. Which is why there's no way Johnny Depp, or Angelina Jolie will be in a Nolan-Directed Batman film. Too obvious, too famous, too everything.
Bale was an obvious choice for Batman from the very beginning. So obvious fans started a campaign for him years before he was cast. Caine is an obvious choice for Alfred. Ditto for Freeman as Lucius. Maggie and Aaron are what we call conventional choices, as in they play their type.

If we're going by pure numbers here, the amount of left field casting choices is greatly outnumbered.

Unfortunately this won't happen, I believe it was David Goyer who has already ruled out the Riddler, Catwoman, and the Penguin for the next one.
No, not one person from the production either confirmed nor denied ANY potential villain. It was Jonah who said that people expect Penguin and Catwoman to be the next logical choices, and he said that he doesn't believe it's necessarily so. That's still not a denial that they'll appear however.

He said that he has a theme for a certain villain but this villain will be not as popular as any of those but true Batman fans will know him. I'm thinking Black Mask.
You're gonna have to link that one. All I remember Goyer saying, is that he has an idea of where to take the next film, based on a theme he has concocted. I don't recall him associating it with anyone, even if it was a hint.

[xoku]

Brian Austin Green
I would love to be the Riddler. I hope to God they don’t replace Heath and have the Joker [again]. So they need a new villain and The Riddler makes sense. …[My Riddler] would take years of preparation. It’s tough. Heath set the bar a new level.

Brian Austin Green to be The Riddler in Batman 3?(????) (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/14/brian-austin-green-to-be-the-riddler-in-batman-3/)

[ManofmyWord]

Hahahahaha.

You got to be kidding me.

Megan Fox for Catwoman though....

[Arsh]

One word:

Hilarious

[Firm18]

Riddle me thi is used to many times.

I think I prefer as someone already gave it in this thread:

"Find Me"

[jmc]

Yep..."Riddle Me This"...Should be the phrase...Unless there is a better one...?!?!

It's a little dated that phrase, time for something new. Perhaps something rhetorical or even some sort of pun.

[ManofmyWord]

Find me.

[Etienne]

Brian Austin Green


Brian Austin Green to be The Riddler in Batman 3?(????) (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/14/brian-austin-green-to-be-the-riddler-in-batman-3/)


the guy who's banging Megan Fox has expressed interest
:hehe:

[djchristensen]

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/tdkreturnsfanmadeposter.jpg

[ManofmyWord]

Dude we've seen that like a million times. Hell, I think it was made by a poster here.

[djchristensen]

Dude we've seen that like a million times. Hell, I think it was made by a poster here.


wow. /film must be behind in times, they just posted it new today.

[Hannibal Harm]

An interesting thing about The Riddler is that the comics do link him to Carmine Falcone, which is already a great start from the first two movies. Focussing on The Riddler's obessesive/compulsive disorder, the fact he wants to reform and his obvious strategic genius, Nolan could work with it easily.

Possible plot:

Nygma is a stooge in the Falcone syndicate, hired like a "private eye" to help them with something and genrally discovering snitches within the group after the damage Dent has done. Obviously, Batman is being hunted by the police, but is still trying to shut down The Mob.

The Mob is paranoid about Batman shutting down their operations, especially after one goes bad and they point the finger at Nygma. Nygma is obviously no fighter, so he's beaten up and left for dead. After trying to go straight, he gets pissed off, he starts targeting The Mob, being obessesive/compulsive, contructs elaborate death traps (that obsession is hinted at up to this point) until Batman gets involved and ruins the plan, gets caught and is sent to Arkham. This naturally drives The Riddler even closer to the edge.

This is where Nygma's real genius comes into play. Using himself as a bargaining chip to help Gotham's PR, he pretends to be "reformed", hailed as a success in the police's fight against crime. That PR continues with him being drafted into some strategic arm of the force, using his genius to capture criminals, particularly the Falcone family, with some grisly results. Nygma is then a natural suspect for Batman, his obsessive/compulsive disorder leads Batman to believe that he's involved in these death traps and is promptly thrown back into Arkham. That is of course, until more death traps for Falcone's men keep appearing, Batman has no choice but to ask for Nygma's help.

Contrary to what people what think would happen now, Nygma refuses. More of Falcone's men are being bumped off and Batman is stuck in a mess of clues with no pattern, no rhyme or reason, all apparently leading back to Nygma. Batman goes back to Arkham to confront Nygma and beats him up until he reveals who is really knockin' off Falcone's men.

Two-Face!

Refusing to believe Dent is alive, Batman and Gordon go on a mission to track him down, the combination of clues revealing that it is Harvey Dent who is behind all this.

How did they miss the connection before?

Nygma constructed everything for Dent, the traps, the clues, everything lead back to him so Dent was free to get both their revenge.

How would Nygma and Dent get on the same page?

Possibly shared hatred for the Falcone family and that Nygma was spared by Dent's coin flip on a previous occasion.

How would Dent keep his whereabouts quiet?

He stayed underground and off radar, probably.


The ending:

Batman forces Nygma to help them find Dent, which is suspiciously simple. Turns out that Dent still blames Batman for Rachael's death and worked with Nygma to get him this close so he can get Batman into a death trap of his own making....

[Arsh]

Riddle me thi is used to many times.

I think I prefer as someone already gave it in this thread:

"Find Me"

That was actually part of my poster that I posted in the Batman 3 fanart/manips thread yesterday...

Open the spoiler box to see it (I was inspired by chrisp's Zodiac-ish one... so it came out a lot different than the usual interpretation of The Riddler)


http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4967/riddlerbcopycb7.jpg

[Firm18]

Yeah I know tha why I wrote That someone already posted me on this board - I couldn't remember who.

The script that is above, seemed very good to the point where Dent is alive. Now that's what I'd hate...him alive again. That would make no sence, espacialy in Nolan's world.

[Batmania]

Brian Austin Green


Brian Austin Green to be The Riddler in Batman 3?(????) (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/14/brian-austin-green-to-be-the-riddler-in-batman-3/)Lol. I've just been watching him in The Sarah Connor Chronicles. He's not bad it in but he's a macho soldier bloke, he's got completely the wrong look for the Riddler. Also, he's not exactly a bankable name. Sorry Brian. :D

[Hannibal Harm]

Yeah I know tha why I wrote That someone already posted me on this board - I couldn't remember who.

The script that is above, seemed very good to the point where Dent is alive. Now that's what I'd hate...him alive again. That would make no sence, espacialy in Nolan's world.


Yeah, I understand your point, but it IS left ambiguously.

My plot is completely centered around The Riddler, if The Penguin was involved, then maybe that could work.

Just throwing ideas around.

[ronny]

I'd love to see The Riddler as a man with many different faces. He leads different lives to suit his needs. He's a real con artist, like the worst aspects of every door-to-door salesman and televangelist you ever saw.
But in the movie he has dual roles. As a kooky genius the police bring in to figure out Batman's identity. And from this role he is able to lead them on a variety of wild goose chases which cover up his crimes as The Riddler.
He plays both criminal and police sides off against each other, pulling Batman suspects out of thin air one minute and double crossing his fellow criminals to lend him credibility the next.
Ultimately it should be revealed that he is planning one big bank job before leaving Gotham. This could lead to an interesting dynamic when he is finally uncovered. He could go ahead with the robbery or leave the city with what he's got.
I think that showing this guy as a devious planner is the way to go, he can be a total loser but still pose a threat to Batman.
It'd be interesting to see him try and sweet talk some criminals to help him in his robberies. Especially when he insists on leaving clues as to the location and time of the crime.
Wouldn't it be great if what initially seems like pure arrogance is revealed as a psychological problem by the end of the movie? He leaves clues because he can't help himself. And that is why he'll never get what he wants the most, respect from his fellow criminals.
He's a great character and I hope Nolan uses him.

[Melkay]

[Posted in several threads.]

I had a strange idea. Read it, please, and tell me if it’s too ridiculous.

What is the thing that Edward Nigma prizes most in the world? Answers. Knowledge. He wants to know every answer to every valuable question out. And as far as valuable go, knowing who Batman is ranks really high. But apart from that, knowledge is the thing that Nigma craves the most. So, what would be one thing from TDK that the Riddler would ambition the most?

The bat-sonar-computer. The thing that would help him locate (and listen to) every gothamite with a cell phone out there, just turning it on.

But Fox destroyed the computer…. Well, if one person besides Fox can fix it again, that should be the Riddler.

And if there’s someone who can get him inside Wayne Enterprises, is a former employee. A former employee that broke inside the building and found the room with the computer that was kept secret. A former employee like Victor Fries.

And maybe Freeze needs the Riddler to crack into the hospitals database and find an organ donor who matches his wife’s blood-type. That donor turns out to be a very elusive cat-burglar. And Freeze needs Riddler to fix the bat-sonar in order to find…. Selina Kyle, a.k.a. Catwoman.

And the least Batman wants is Freeze finding Selina. Or the Riddler getting his hands on that sonar.

I know, it’s a very raw way of combining the three, just wanted to know the idea sounded to others.

[ManofmyWord]

I like the Idea that Ras Knew Bruce was Bats, Joker DIDN'T want to know and Riddler will do ANYTHING to find out.

[Brooklyn Zoo]

^ That's interesting. I'd like to see the movie have Black Mask go after Bruce Wayne, and Riddler go after Batman.

[Ziggyman]

^ That's interesting. I'd like to see the movie have Black Mask go after Bruce Wayne, and Riddler go after Batman.

That too would be quite interesting...:woot:

[Superhero 101]

Oh god Greene is a terrible choice I'd rather see Dr. House play the Riddler.

[InvisibleWoman]

I've wanted David Tennant for the Riddler since Batman Begins came out. But I'm worried that he's now become the "obvious" choice and Nolan seems to go for more left of the field actors. Like, who would have guessed Heath Ledger for the Joker? Certainly not me! I hope, in the case of the Riddler, Nolan sees that the obvious choice is quite possibly the BEST choice.

http://img225.imagevenue.com/loc45/th_76672_1_122_45lo.jpg (http://img225.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76672_1_122_45lo.jpg)http://img174.imagevenue.com/loc685/th_76674_2_122_685lo.jpg (http://img174.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76674_2_122_685lo.jpg)http://img211.imagevenue.com/loc216/th_76677_4_122_216lo.jpg (http://img211.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76677_4_122_216lo.jpg)

[Carmine Falcone]

We really need an completely unique vision of the Ridller. And an appropriate actor to portray it. I really have no idea where they could take this.

I do want to see a somewhat traditional costume though.

[jmc]

We really need an completely unique vision of the Ridller. And an appropriate actor to portray it. I really have no idea where they could take this.

I do want to see a somewhat traditional costume though.

I don't know how 'traditional Riddler' you could go in Nolan's world, if I was a betting man I'd say Nolan would drop the mask, the bowler hat, the one piece lime green suit and the blatantly obvious question marks scattered everywhere and go for a more dark greenish suit, glasses and maybe more subtle question marks (or even a symbol like Y?), perhaps in the form of jewelery, a tie, or maybe even a tattoo.

[Nick Danger]

I don't know how 'traditional Riddler' you could go in Nolan's world, if I was a betting man I'd say Nolan would drop the mask, the bowler hat, the one piece lime green suit and the blatantly obvious question marks scattered everywhere and go for a more dark greenish suit, glasses and maybe more subtle question marks (or even a symbol like Y?), perhaps in the form of jewelery, a tie, or maybe even a tattoo.

That would suck.

[Bads316]

Nobody mentioned this guy yet? http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02/41a_07_Paul-Dano_243x413.jpg

Paul Dano - amazing in There Will Be Blood, had the weak, vain, creepy thing down like a mother.

[Carnotaur3]

http://findmeapirate.com/Pages/Shoulda%20been%20a%20pirate/Images/Denis%20leary.jpg

Denis Leary for Riddler!

[Bads316]

The Bill Hicks rip off ?

[Carnotaur3]

The Bill Hicks rip off ?

If you've seen Leary in "Judgment Night" you'd be with me on this one.

[secretsquirrely]

Ipersonally would like Jude Law as the Riddler. He has the whole demeanor, is a bankable name, and seems like an actor of a calibor Nolan would work with. Throw in the fact he is British and we have a very likely candidate. nd I know without a doubt he would nail the role. As for ideas of a story, why be so complicated folks?Forget Black Mask and vilain team ups..Riddler is devious enough to pull together a whole story on his own with maybe a side story involving one of the already established characters. I find it funny how we al complain about Batman and Robin, have seen the Nolan films and know the pacing, yet most folks still think in the Shumacher terms when they think of a Batman film. Don't make Riddler a carbon copy of Heath's Joker either. Batman has now dealt with the revolutionary, the sadistic, the anarchic, and the vengeful. Now time for him to fight something different..the inquisitive. As for a catch phrse...well this was "Why So Serious?" I think a perfect follow up to that is the Riddler's number one question. "Why?"

[PyroChamber]

Another thing, Ra's al Ghul and the Joker had a point to why they did what they did, but what would (or should) be Riddler's point for what he does?

[Arsh]

Another thing, Ra's al Ghul and the Joker had a point to why they did what they did, but what would (or should) be Riddler's point for what he does?

Maybe it's his obsessive compulsive issues that drive him and force him to uncover the truth?

[cerealkiller182]

The Bill Hicks rip off ?

In his overrated stand up? Yes. On screen? No, hes very underrated as an actor, but....

Jason Flemyng (LXG, Lock, Stock, and 2 Smoking Barrels)
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00473/SNF22CASH07H_280_473074a.jpg

[DarkReflections]

Maybe it's his obsessive compulsive issues that drive him and force him to uncover the truth?

it can also be his narcism that does it also.

[jmc]

That would suck.

It might suck but it's also the most logical approach.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Ever since Memento, I've always pictured Guy Pierce as the Riddler.:yay:

[Chee]

Ever since Memento, I've always pictured Guy Pierce as the Riddler.:yay:

Same here. xD

[Nepenthes]

Nobody mentioned this guy yet? http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02/41a_07_Paul-Dano_243x413.jpg

Paul Dano - amazing in There Will Be Blood, had the weak, vain, creepy thing down like a mother.

He has been mentioned, myself included. Alot of people replied he'd be perfect if he was five years older. He's about 24. cool actor

[Mr.Clay]

Thought this might also make sense being here too besides the art thread...
http://www.clayrodery.com/questionmark.jpg

[Ziggyman]

I like the tie...And possibly the hat to be the only things to have a question mark on it...

[PyroChamber]

The green Chuck Taylors are a nice touch.

[Ziggyman]

The green Chuck Taylors are a nice touch.

Indeed!:woot:

...Though I think you should switch the the shoes...The Chucks seem to suit the other one better!

[Mr.Clay]

Thanks you guys, I'm really glad this was well-received. I was trying to figure Riddler in the way Lindy Hemming said that they thought about Joker, basically breaking down the comic look into "how and who would wear this in real life?" I see the Riddler as being something almost like the IT tech from hell, someone who has such an unbelievable narcissistic superiority complex based on their own percieved great intellect. I would imagine this makes him very image-conscious, as besides a direct display of his intelligence, his only other way of expressing his self-percieved superiority would be through how he dresses himself. Dignified, yet comfortable while also looking authoritative. I feel he'd think he looks best in green, facilitating color consistency through his wardrobe. Both designs play on traditional Riddler costumes, but tried making really conscious decisions of color, kind of garment, and relationship to the character. The greens are somewhat muted, with the graphic shirt being the exception, and I still thought he needed some kind of violet coloring even if it was very desaturated and dark. As for the Chucks, if Joker's own footwear (especially the socks) were any indication, it's that a lot can be said about a character through what he's got on his feet. I just feel that wearing those shoes with the suit look is his way of saying "screw you, I make the rules", but through fashion

[Nepenthes]

you've got a good grasp on you character. It so important that he wants to be taken seriously while being unaware that he really seems a little desperate and goofy. An over-confident, modern and real world fashion sense is a great way to do that.

[ManofmyWord]

One of the best posts I've read here in awhile. Bravo.

Question, Do you study or have a hobby with Fashion? You know your stuff.

[Mr.Clay]

Thanks, I do appreciate it! I'm actually an illustrator, and do do fashion work, but here and there I also work in production on fashion photoshoots and stuff here in NYC, and over time I've picked up on a lot of good info and styles. I actually based these Riddler designs on Paul Smith's Winter 2008 men's line, which I liked because the suits are tailored to be very slim and tall looking, which I thought would be good for Riddler because it'd make him look a bit odd and awkward yet the clothes themselves are quite nice and stylish given the right color and/or patterning

[Melkay]

Thanks you guys, I'm really glad this was well-received. I was trying to figure Riddler in the way Lindy Hemming said that they thought about Joker, basically breaking down the comic look into "how and who would wear this in real life?" I see the Riddler as being something almost like the IT tech from hell, someone who has such an unbelievable narcissistic superiority complex based on their own percieved great intellect. I would imagine this makes him very image-conscious, as besides a direct display of his intelligence, his only other way of expressing his self-percieved superiority would be through how he dresses himself. Dignified, yet comfortable while also looking authoritative. I feel he'd think he looks best in green, facilitating color consistency through his wardrobe. Both designs play on traditional Riddler costumes, but tried making really conscious decisions of color, kind of garment, and relationship to the character. The greens are somewhat muted, with the graphic shirt being the exception, and I still thought he needed some kind of violet coloring even if it was very desaturated and dark. As for the Chucks, if Joker's own footwear (especially the socks) were any indication, it's that a lot can be said about a character through what he's got on his feet. I just feel that wearing those shoes with the suit look is his way of saying "screw you, I make the rules", but through fashion

I can't see the picture but I like your description and you rationalization of the wardrobe. But I have one concern... would it fit in the Nolanverse? So far, every willain suit has been explained and given a cause.

The fake Ra's Al Ghul had a very ritualistic wardrobe because... well, he was the 'face of the project', and everything was very ritualistic. And he lived in a temple.
The real Ra's Al Ghul had a more plausible outfit, elegant and classy, but completely in black and with a cane. When you have a cane and you're not disable that can be a little over the top. Yet in Ra's was understandable, because he was not going to goe around in a normal society. He was there to swiftly destroy the city and go back to those asian mountains, where his home was. So, Nolan could afford having something a little over the top. Plus, the can had a concealed sword, so it was practical.

Tha Scarecrow had no suit. He only had a mask, and gosh, they did explain that one. It worked like a supplement for the effects of his fear toxin. Very neat. But just the mask and a normal suit. We got the real Scarecrow in the end, with a straight jacket of long sleeves that made yo remember his suit in the comics, and a police horse... a horse! Great. But explained.

Joker: He can have any suit he wants... he's there to stand out, after all. It has some taste, of course, but it is meant to be dark and still be over the top. And they explained it again, he had the suit AFTER he robbed the mob banks, and he paid an anonymous tailor with that money. Simple, and great.

Two-Face had a split suit alright... his same suit from the accident. Because he escaped the hospital and went directly into full revenge mode. And then he died, so we will never know if is would get a split-suit after that.

And that's my problem with your outfit. It's very well explained psychologically, but can it be explained through context and plausability?
Would he wear it when he is commiting crimes, or all the time? If if it's the first one, would he have something else to conceal his identity? Not a domino mask, please....
...... maybe he delivers his clues through a character on a screen who wears green and such but has his face blurred/pixelated or covered by a digital question mark. In taht case, how could even have the bowling hat... which makes me remember that famous painting with the man of the bowling hat and his face covered by a pear (it's in the new Thomas Crown Affair).

If he is waring the suit in public, I think he may look to ridiculous wearing shades of green all the time. The Joker was a criminal who liked to wear purple, but he didn't mingle with normal citizens. Would the Riddlerbe doing that?
...... maybe he has that suit because he's a TV Game Show host and being such a colorful kind of show, he wears a green suit. He could even have question marks.

But whithout some kind of explanation or special context for the suit, I don't see anyone taking him seriously in anyway. Freaks aren't ridiculous in the Nolanverse.

All that, of course, IMHO.

[Nepenthes]

anytime you can't see a picture, quote the post, copy the image url and paste it into a new window

[Mr.Clay]

I can't see the picture but I like your description and you rationalization of the wardrobe. But I have one concern... would it fit in the Nolanverse? So far, every willain suit has been explained and given a cause.

And that's my problem with your outfit. It's very well explained psychologically, but can it be explained through context and plausability?
Would he wear it when he is commiting crimes, or all the time? If if it's the first one, would he have something else to conceal his identity? Not a domino mask, please....
...... maybe he delivers his clues through a character on a screen who wears green and such but has his face blurred/pixelated or covered by a digital question mark. In taht case, how could even have the bowling hat... which makes me remember that famous painting with the man of the bowling hat and his face covered by a pear (it's in the new Thomas Crown Affair).

If he is waring the suit in public, I think he may look to ridiculous wearing shades of green all the time. The Joker was a criminal who liked to wear purple, but he didn't mingle with normal citizens. Would the Riddlerbe doing that?
...... maybe he has that suit because he's a TV Game Show host and being such a colorful kind of show, he wears a green suit. He could even have question marks.

But whithout some kind of explanation or special context for the suit, I don't see anyone taking him seriously in anyway. Freaks aren't ridiculous in the Nolanverse.

All that, of course, IMHO.

I understand where you're coming from, and I don't mean to be rude sounding, but if you haven't seen the picture yet you should take a look:
http://www.clayrodery.com/questionmark.jpg

The explanation and context for what he wears should really only be that they're HIS clothes, that it's not exactly a specific outfit made to look like his comic look or anything. Plus I made 2 designs to imply that day-to-day Riddler's outfits would change and be different. I mean, if they're his clothes, he obviously doesn't wear the same thing everyday, however it's not out of reason he might have a number of green garments. I mean, don't you and anyone else own a few items of clothing that happen to be the same color because you prefer it? He just has an affinity for a particular color coupled with good style. And then you get into shades of green. He can wield warm greens with a lot of yellow in it, or cooler greens in blueish tints, greens that appear greyish next to his other prefered color violet, and it's own variety of tones. And then on top of all that you add on variables like pattern, or how the piece of clothing is cut and sewn. It wouldn't be hard at all to piece together a wardrobe for this character which all would have the same visual impact as his comic book look, while at the same time functioning as his own clothes believably. The point though would be to do everything subtle enough so that he COULD blend in with normal citizens. I mean I live in Williamsburg in Brooklyn, and I see hipster dipsh**s dressed sort of like this but in even crazier colors everyday! It wouldn't be hard to buy, I dont think so at least...

[jmc]

I'm doubtful of question marks being used at all in any Riddler costume design, not in the context of Nolan's world at least, at best I can see some sort of symbol or design encompassing a question mark within the design, even then it would be something subtle, but no suit design with '?' plastered everywhere in plain sight, as long as he's wearing some form of green suit, really he doesn't need question marks anywhere, he's still the Riddler.

[Melkay]

I understand where you're coming from, and I don't mean to be rude sounding, but if you haven't seen the picture yet you should take a look:
http://www.clayrodery.com/questionmark.jpg

The explanation and context for what he wears should really only be that they're HIS clothes, that it's not exactly a specific outfit made to look like his comic look or anything. Plus I made 2 designs to imply that day-to-day Riddler's outfits would change and be different. I mean, if they're his clothes, he obviously doesn't wear the same thing everyday, however it's not out of reason he might have a number of green garments. I mean, don't you and anyone else own a few items of clothing that happen to be the same color because you prefer it? He just has an affinity for a particular color coupled with good style. And then you get into shades of green. He can wield warm greens with a lot of yellow in it, or cooler greens in blueish tints, greens that appear greyish next to his other prefered color violet, and it's own variety of tones. And then on top of all that you add on variables like pattern, or how the piece of clothing is cut and sewn. It wouldn't be hard at all to piece together a wardrobe for this character which all would have the same visual impact as his comic book look, while at the same time functioning as his own clothes believably. The point though would be to do everything subtle enough so that he COULD blend in with normal citizens. I mean I live in Williamsburg in Brooklyn, and I see hipster dipsh**s dressed sort of like this but in even crazier colors everyday! It wouldn't be hard to buy, I dont think so at least...

Of course you're not being rude, I sure want to see the picture. Thank you for the link. However, I still can't access it or even download the url.

I'm having trouble with picturing what you say in a way that doesn't make him look ridiculous or make him justify something in Nolan's movies for content and context, instead of just a stylized (though conceptual) look. It's still hard for me to justify the constant green as something more than a reason of style, and I find that at odds with the idea of the character as a cerebral one. He may be narcissistic, but that's even more reason for him to dress in colors that can be respected in the high society... and those hipsters you mention are not the most helpful example :yay: .

But I'll prevent myself from giving more opinions or making final judgments on the idea without seeing the picture. People here have reacted in a positive way to it and I'm sure it must be a better explanation of what you mean. Thank you for your time.

[Melkay]

anytime you can't see a picture, quote the post, copy the image url and paste it into a new window

Still doesn't work, but thank you for the tip.

[ronny]

The Riddler should look different to different people. I think that his Riddler persona should be his true self but in the movie he attempts to play the cops, the criminals and Batman. And so appear different to almost each party.
Like I said in my other post, it should all build to one big bank job. He'll never be an action focused villain like The Joker so Nolan should focus on a long build up to one big score.

[Why So Cereal?]

I think (as well as others here) the Riddler should be more of a Zodiac-type villain

[nolan's roll'n]

I hope the Riddler casting is more out of the field, like Ledger's was. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's how it ended up being.

[ManofmyWord]

I like the bank idea.

It would also establish just how much more of a better Villian Joker is. If Riddler pulled off a bank job at the end of BB3, He's done what Joker did at the beginning of TDK.

[nolan's roll'n]

I think (as well as others here) the Riddler should be more of a Zodiac-type villain
Agreed.

[Crook]

The last thing we need to do is copy. Just focus on creating a modern and engrossing Riddler. Nothing more.

[ronny]

Yep, there was a movie called The Killing which had a good robbery scene. It was so tense that you were just waiting for something to go wrong. I hope to see something similar. Especially if by the end The Riddler knows that the cops are onto him and still decides to do it.
It could be really well done. But do you think it's better if he leaves clues because he's so arrogant or does so because he can't help himself? Either works fine. It would be interesting if there was real disbelief that Batman caught him.

The last thing we need to do is copy. Just focus on creating a modern and engrossing Riddler. Nothing more.

I agree. Keep him as faithful to the comics as possible. He's not a serial killer and shouldn't be shown as such. Leave the really violent stuff for Joker and Two-Face. Because Riddler doesn't always like to dirty his hands.

[Closerframe]

I want the Riddler to seem like a puppet master to a much grander scheme, his killings are political or somehow connect. I want him to make both Batman and the police to think, and sometimes making Batman face the police in order to continue with his quest to find out who the Riddler is. I want him to use fake identity's, I want him to be ahead of the game, but sometimes surprised himself with the results.

[nolan's roll'n]

I know this hasn't been brought up yet but what about James McAvoy for the Riddler? Just a thought.

[Closerframe]

I know this hasn't been brought up yet but what about James McAvoy for the Riddler? Just a thought.

If their going for a younger look for the character than McAvoy are Affleck are my top choices.

[nolan's roll'n]

If their going for a younger look for the character than McAvoy are Affleck are my top choices.
Affleck would be interesting as well.

[Microchip]

Thanks you guys, I'm really glad this was well-received. I was trying to figure Riddler in the way Lindy Hemming said that they thought about Joker, basically breaking down the comic look into "how and who would wear this in real life?" I see the Riddler as being something almost like the IT tech from hell, someone who has such an unbelievable narcissistic superiority complex based on their own percieved great intellect. I would imagine this makes him very image-conscious, as besides a direct display of his intelligence, his only other way of expressing his self-percieved superiority would be through how he dresses himself. Dignified, yet comfortable while also looking authoritative. I feel he'd think he looks best in green, facilitating color consistency through his wardrobe. Both designs play on traditional Riddler costumes, but tried making really conscious decisions of color, kind of garment, and relationship to the character. The greens are somewhat muted, with the graphic shirt being the exception, and I still thought he needed some kind of violet coloring even if it was very desaturated and dark. As for the Chucks, if Joker's own footwear (especially the socks) were any indication, it's that a lot can be said about a character through what he's got on his feet. I just feel that wearing those shoes with the suit look is his way of saying "screw you, I make the rules", but through fashion

I love your concept of the Riddler on the left, that would be a fantastic costume.

IT Tech narcassistic guy from hell, huh? Well, as long as he's not Boris from GoldenEye... YES! I AM INVINCIBLE! Ugh.

[Melkay]

I know this hasn't been brought up yet but what about James McAvoy for the Riddler? Just a thought.

I've thought McCavoy is a fantastic actor since I saw Atonement. The only problem I have with him his the tone of his voice. But the Riddler is, physically speaking, too generic. Just a white dark-brown haired guy. You can pin almost any good actor in the rol and would make perfect sense.

Hell, I even liked another suggestion out there: Chris Meloni, the guy from Law & Order: SVU. I said to myself: "WTF?" but then I saw his small role in "Loath and Fear in Las Vegas" and I surprised myself.

[Melkay]

IT Tech narcassistic guy from hell, huh? Well, as long as he's not Boris from GoldenEye... YES! I AM INVINCIBLE! Ugh.

Unfortunately, is very easy to make him that way.

[The Major]

I've thought McCavoy is a fantastic actor since I saw Atonement. The only problem I have with him his the tone of his voice. But the Riddler is, physically speaking, too generic. Just a white dark-brown haired guy. You can pin almost any good actor in the rol and would make perfect sense.

Being generic doesn't have to be a bad thing. He can hide in plain sight and disappear better that way.

The Riddler is wiry and thin in most versions. Though it would be fine if they just had him at average weight and size.
Hell, I even liked another suggestion out there: Chris Meloni, the guy from Law & Order: SVU. I said to myself: "WTF?" but then I saw his small role in "Loath and Fear in Las Vegas" and I surprised myself.

That's an interesting choice. It could work.

[The Major]

Affleck would be interesting as well.

Ugh. No thanks.

I'd take MacAvoy over him.

[BlueLightning]

Don´t know if this idea has been brought, but what if nobody knows who the Riddler is until the end of the film, even us? Of course we would know he is Edward Nashton/Nygma, but they won´t show us him, just his schemes behind stage or in a fake identity.

I have this idea, but I think I won´t like it in a time, but I needed to express it.

[Melkay]

The Riddler should look different to different people. I think that his Riddler persona should be his true self but in the movie he attempts to play the cops, the criminals and Batman. And so appear different to almost each party.
Like I said in my other post, it should all build to one big bank job. He'll never be an action focused villain like The Joker so Nolan should focus on a long build up to one big score.

What about fixing and getting his hands at the Bat-sonar from TDK? Can you imagine the Riddler with that power?

[Twin723]

I think (as well as others here) the Riddler should be more of a Zodiac-type villain

Yeah that would be cool. The Riddler is perfect for Nolan. Nolan's films like Memento and The Prestige are basically like puzzles themselves.

[Microchip]

Don´t know if this idea has been brought, but what if nobody knows who the Riddler is until the end of the film, even us? Of course we would know he is Edward Nashton/Nygma, but they won´t show us him, just his schemes behind stage or in a fake identity.

I have this idea, but I think I won´t like it in a time, but I needed to express it.

I think the Riddler is too iconic to not be shown throughout the movie, what with his costume etc.

However, it's an interesting idea, and I like it.

[nolan's roll'n]

Yeah that would be cool. The Riddler is perfect for Nolan. Nolan's films like Memento and The Prestige are basically like puzzles themselves.
Seconded

[The Englishman]

Thought this might also make sense being here too besides the art thread...
http://www.clayrodery.com/questionmark.jpg
It's Doctor Who.....

[The Major]

MacAvoy would be perfect for Riddler.

[Soulinertia]

My pic for the Riddler would be Timothy Olyphant all the way!

He just has this creepy wicked looking smile that makes him perfect. I really liked his character in The Girl Next door. The Riddler's personality should be portrayed as something similar but more intellectual of course and very clean.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/timothy-olyphant-the-break-up-world-premiere-6anTXz.jpg

Here is my teaser poster for those of you who havent seen it on the manips & fan-art thread.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/soulinertia/RiddlerPoster.jpg

[TheTrickster]

Here is the best thing I can think of for the Riddler. He’s a twenty something computer hacker whose been hacking into government files and causing trouble since before TDK, but with the mob having dwindled as a result of the Joker business his crimes start escalating. Instead of sitting behind the computer he’s coming out into view: robbing banks, kidnapping, extortion.

Now though everything he does he leaves a riddle behind and if the cops can solve the riddle they can get things back, money the victim whatever. As for the riddler it’s just about a battle of wits. He could be shutting down the stockmarket, traffic lights, basically any crime. He starts making harder riddles with more drastic consequences if people can’t solve them in time.

He think he should be a cocky and very confident guy, thinks of himself as the head of the freaks in Gotham. He’s sharply dressed, quite dandyish and very witty. I fancy Gordon Joseph Levitt for the role the way he just spits out his lines in brick is how i think the riddler should speak.

Could even have it that unless they sove a particular riddle in time he'll free the inmates at Arkuym.

[Twin723]

What about making The Riddler as a cop/Investigator. Like one of Gordon's men. The cops will be looking for the Riddler but they wont be able to find him cause he is one of them. Kinda like The Departed. And the only one who has the capabalities to find out who the Riddler is will be Batman. But since Batman is now wanted it wont be easy cause the Gotham Police no longer cooperates or tolerates Batman as they did in TDK.

[Killing Joke926]

Thought this might also make sense being here too besides the art thread...
http://www.clayrodery.com/questionmark.jpg

LOL So Doctor Who indeed; but I do love that first one on the left, i'ts a very modern and really screams Riddler. Or the blazer and tie at least; the only alerations I do to it would be to also give him pinstriped pants, a pair of just normal class black or brown shoes like Oxford or something, and give him a green inside shirt (probably just a little darker than 6th sample down). Other than that, AWSOME. :grin:

[Melkay]

Here is the best thing I can think of for the Riddler. He’s a twenty something computer hacker whose been hacking into government files and causing trouble since before TDK, but with the mob having dwindled as a result of the Joker business his crimes start escalating. Instead of sitting behind the computer he’s coming out into view: robbing banks, kidnapping, extortion.

Now though everything he does he leaves a riddle behind and if the cops can solve the riddle they can get things back, money the victim whatever. As for the riddler it’s just about a battle of wits. He could be shutting down the stockmarket, traffic lights, basically any crime. He starts making harder riddles with more drastic consequences if people can’t solve them in time.

He think he should be a cocky and very confident guy, thinks of himself as the head of the freaks in Gotham. He’s sharply dressed, quite dandyish and very witty. I fancy Gordon Joseph Levitt for the role the way he just spits out his lines in brick is how i think the riddler should speak.

Could even have it that unless they sove a particular riddle in time he'll free the inmates at Arkuym.

Hmmm... Boris from 'Goldeneye' meets 'Live Free Or Die Hard'?

I'd prefer something else.

[Carmine Falcone]

Cool designs.

But really...the first one could do with a bowler hat, and atleatst 1 question mark. I mean c'mon, it's the friggin' RIDDLER.

[Killing Joke926]

Cool designs.

But really...the first one could do with a bowler hat, and atleatst 1 question mark. I mean c'mon, it's the friggin' RIDDLER.

*Hurm* I think if there's ever gonna be a movie, he should only wear the classic derbie only a couple of times; kinda cooler without one and no one really wears a bowler in Nolan's world of BatMan IMO. :brucebat:

[Carmine Falcone]

Tssk.....If I was making a Batman movie, BATMAN HIMSELF would wear a Bowler hat goddamnit. :mad:

Damn Nolan.

[COMPO]

The Riddler is a very mysterious character who believes Gotham is filled with riddles. The mob creating 'riddles' to get out of jail, the cops being riddles themselves and believes everyone in the city has a riddle to tell or be solved. Especially Batman.

He organises a meeting with the remenants of the out of control mob who after their kleaders are killed in the last movie is going through a power struggle. He has them killed provoking a gang war revealing the riddle that is the mobs true faces: criminals since they hide behind the guise of businessmen.

He then goes after Reese knowing he knows Batmans secret kidnapping him until he tells him. Also knowing the police are corrupt, he hacks into the police main frame leaving a game of some sorts which unlocks evidence of cops being corrupt also sending it to the new DA who is pressed in keeping the city clean.

Added with the gnag war and the new DA wanting to prosecute the corrupt cops Batman and Gordon are finding it hard to keep control even more so when Gordon is blackmail with evidence of the two face secret.

[ronny]

Cool designs.

But really...the first one could do with a bowler hat, and atleatst 1 question mark. I mean c'mon, it's the friggin' RIDDLER.

Green clothes. Faded question marks on tie, question marks on shirt collar, question mark cufflinks, dark green bowler hat, thick black sunglasses.
This is not the place for super-realism.
He is a guy who is trying to look suave. the fact that he comes across like a used car salesman is something else entirely.

[Melkay]

Tssk.....If I was making a Batman movie, BATMAN HIMSELF would wear a Bowler hat goddamnit. :mad:

Damn Nolan.

But NOLAN is the director.

God exists :whatever:

[ronny]

God exists :whatever:

What do you mean by that? :huh:

[Carmine Falcone]

God is dead.

But that's another subject entirely.

[Melkay]

Green clothes. Faded question marks on tie, question marks on shirt collar, question mark cufflinks, dark green bowler hat, thick black sunglasses.
This is not the place for super-realism.
He is a guy who is trying to look suave. the fact that he comes across like a used car salesman is something else entirely.

So, he is a guy trying to outsmart Batman, but Batman keeps eluding him, and on top of that the guy comes across as ridiculous because he is trying to look suave but can't do it?

I know the villains always lose in the end, but I want a villain who makes me think he has a chance at winning, not some guy who lets everybody know from the beginning that he is a Complete Loser.

Is it too difficult to make a guy dangerous to Batman but not a murdering pyscho like the Zodiac?... Or to make him insecure without making him wear green or be a crappy detective?

Come on guys :csad:

[ronny]

He's supposed to wear green. He's supposed to be a loser. He's not really a cold blooded killer. The guy's just a weasel with an over inflated ego.
I've said it before, it's that desperation and that longing to be respected that makes him dangerous. Because these people are unpredictable and are often so underestimated that they have a certain power. Meaning that they can exploit the disdain of others for their own benefit.
Plus, his costume is not that gaudy, just give him a decent tie and some sunglasses and you're on your way.

[Melkay]

He's supposed to wear green. He's supposed to be a loser. He's not really a cold blooded killer. The guy's just a weasel with an over inflated ego.
I've said it before, it's that desperation and that longing to be respected that makes him dangerous. Because these people are unpredictable and are often so underestimated that they have a certain power. Meaning that they can exploit the disdain of others for their own benefit.
Plus, his costume is not that gaudy, just give him a decent tie and some sunglasses and you're on your way.


He's a loser because he always tries to outsmart/catch Batman but Batman always manages to frustrate his plans... but that's just Batman, not the whole society... if he wears green witout having a ral context, there's a real chance that people will just see him as a buffoon.

His costume is really gaudy in the Nolanverse. Get the design from BTAS, remove the hat, the cane and the domino mask and put him in a day-light scene in The Dark Knight?... does he fit?

What's wrong with him being respected already (a top FBI agent who specializes in computes and code-breaking)? That way he can actually have a cause for being arrogant (he's really good at what he does) but gets a nice surprise when he sees that Batman is better than he is? What about if the Riddler realizes that he just understimaded the caped crusader? And THEN he gets obssesed with catching him and finding out who he is.

That's actually a more dynamic and progressive story-telling.

[The Major]

My pic for the Riddler would be Timothy Olyphant all the way!

He just has this creepy wicked looking smile that makes him perfect. I really liked his character in The Girl Next door. The Riddler's personality should be portrayed as something similar but more intellectual of course and very clean.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/timothy-olyphant-the-break-up-world-premiere-6anTXz.jpg

Here is my teaser poster for those of you who havent seen it on the manips & fan-art thread.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/soulinertia/RiddlerPoster.jpg

Didn't think about him. Good idea.

[The Major]

The Riddler is a very mysterious character who believes Gotham is filled with riddles. The mob creating 'riddles' to get out of jail, the cops being riddles themselves and believes everyone in the city has a riddle to tell or be solved. Especially Batman.

He organises a meeting with the remenants of the out of control mob who after their kleaders are killed in the last movie is going through a power struggle. He has them killed provoking a gang war revealing the riddle that is the mobs true faces: criminals since they hide behind the guise of businessmen.

He then goes after Reese knowing he knows Batmans secret kidnapping him until he tells him. Also knowing the police are corrupt, he hacks into the police main frame leaving a game of some sorts which unlocks evidence of cops being corrupt also sending it to the new DA who is pressed in keeping the city clean.

Added with the gnag war and the new DA wanting to prosecute the corrupt cops Batman and Gordon are finding it hard to keep control even more so when Gordon is blackmail with evidence of the two face secret.

It's to much like TDK Joker. Riddler would need to be unique.

[Melkay]

What do you mean by that? :huh:

That it's a great thing that God exist, because Nolan got to helm the movie, not ronny, and IBatman doesn't have to wear a bowling hat.

God is dead.

But that's another subject entirely.

Nolan proved Niesztche wrong. :yay:

[WGoble]

Please, someone let me know if you find this at least SOMEWHAT compelling.

I for one would love to see a complete re-invention of the Riddler. I would take the idea of The Long Halloween, and adapt it exclusively to the Riddler. Rather than "Holiday".

Gotham is tired, weary and they can't even trust the Batman now (or so they believe). In Harvey Dent's alleged death and Batman's undoing as a hero, Bruce Wayne steps up to lead the city into a manhunt for Batman and a war against the mob and corruption (merely to keep the spirit of Dent and his ideals alive). Well, the whole 'mob' thing seems tired and dead right? Falcone is locked up, Gamble and the Chechen are dead, and Maroni for all we know is in a full body cast. Who should show up to take over other than Alberto Falcone? Alberto, employing the talents of Dr. Crane and his alter-ego, plan to once again instill fear in the city. Not by toxin, but by corruption. To in effect, "...get back to the way things were..." if you will.

As Wayne's ironic campaign to catch Batman continues, we see Batman is still working privately with Gordon. (Taking from 'Year One'...) Batman sees staged crimes in attempt to catch him. We know from Batman's ability to mind his surroundings, and his connection to Gordon (now strengthened) protects him.

For citizens, things are looking up, but for Gordon, Bruce, and the rest, things are going to get harder. Suddenly, at all the high priority public events, it seems public figures, civilian and servant, are being murdered right under the noses of Gotham's people. We also see that the murderer has a certain theatrical theme of mystery about him, leaving riddles, clues, and accusations behind with bodies. Dubbed "The Riddler Killer" or just "The Riddler", He signs Edward. Edward N.Y.G.M.A. The question is, what links these deaths? A connection to the mob? Maybe something else.

This disorder and panic sends all of Gotham into a paranoid state. No one trusts anyone. Gordon and Batman's bond is shaky, as is all of the faith in Gotham. The paranoia escalates into internal suspicion. Gotham's secret protectors have their guns aimed at each other, there is one person to turn to....

Dent...

Basically, just change Holiday into The Riddler. Instead of killing on holidays, it is during public events. This way, the Riddler IS one man. Rather than being a crazed public maniac like the Joker, he is more of a, well, Charles Manson type. He may not even be murdering ANYONE. Personally, I would have thought Cillian Murphy would have been great for this is he wasn't Scarecrow (which he is awesome at as well) So my vote is undecided. If I had to choose now... it would be Gosling or McAvoy.

Alberto Falcone - I vote Giovanni Ribisi. Perfect for the part, plus I would TOTALLY buy him playing Tom Wilkinson's son, ftw. If he is unavailable, then Leonardo Dicaprio, think "Departed".

[WGoble]

Double post... i have no idea how that happened... sorry guys.

[7alex]

So as soon as The Dark Knight was released a bunch of threads started appearing on how the 3rd Batman film was going to be based on the Riddler. How did this get started? Sorry if i don't keep up with the news but have we even heard much from the people who made The Dark Knight since the film was released?

:bh:

[thedrizzle59]

well it started with AMH being casted in TDK, but the recent hype comes from gary oldman saying that they might use the riddler in the next film a couple of times during interviews. But honestly its just the most logical choice for a villan in Nolans real world batman. I totally want to see him in it but the exact opposite as that of Jim Carry!:cwink:

[Katsuro]

It's just fan speculation. Mostly wishful thinking really. He does seem one of the more likely candidates, and he is a pretty cool villain.

[The Demon's Head]

Well, Oldman said in two interviews so far that they want The Riddler. The rest is just speculation.

[PyroChamber]

I still don't like the idea of The Riddler being a murderer or some kind of serial killer; but one thing's for sure, if Riddler did dress like the concept photo above then that shouldn't be a hard costume to copy of people.

[Dark Sentinel]

Just came up with a wicked awesome, complicated riddle. Here's the scene, tell me if you guys like.

EXT. MCU - NIGHT

GORDON stands against the ledge, the BROKEN BAT-SIGNAL looming behind him. We hear a SWISH and Gordon turns around.

BATMAN crouches over the railing.

BATMAN
We weren't supposed to meet like this, Commissioner.

GORDON
I have no choice. He's going to kill again.

BATMAN
Or maybe he already has.

Batman hands a SLIP OF PAPER to Gordon. Gordon unfolds it:

CLOSSE ON: It's ANOTHER RIDDLE-

"Here's a two-parter for your entertainment, Commissioner:

What do you do to make gold purer than it was before, and where might you find its opposite?"

CUT TO:

INT. OFFICE - NIGHT

A ROBED MAN sits at a DESK, looking through papers. Suddenly, something CLUBS HIS HEAD. The man SLUMPS onto the desk.

CUT TO:

THE RIDDLE IN GORDON'S HAND.

"Tick tock, tick tock."

Gordon looks up.

GORDON
What's he talking about?

BATMAN
Think.

GORDON
(frustrated)
I can't!

BATMAN
You have to. Someone's life depends on it. You're the hero now. Come on, Gordon. What can you do to purify gold?

GORDON
I don't know, heat it?

BATMAN
Exactly. Douse it in fire. What's a better expression?

CUT TO:

EXT. COURTYARD - NIGHT

A MAN whimpers. A PAIR OF HANDS slaps some DUCT TAPE over his mouth.

VOICE (O.S.)
Shh, you're breaking my concentration.

CLOSE ON:

The man's head is FORCED INTO WATER.

CUT TO:

EXT. MCU ROOFTOP - CONTINUOUS

GORDON
(uncertain)
Uhh...Damn it! I don't know. Baptism by fire?

BATMAN
Exactly.

INTERCUT WITH THE MAN STRUGGLING IN THE WATER.

Gordon wipes his forehead.

GORDON
It's opposite...opposite...

BATMAN
Water. Where can you find it?

Gordon stops. Looks up. TERRIFIED.

GORDON
Saint Swithun's.