Should Hush be in the third film?

[CaptainClown]

Hush think it could be done?
I think it would be a great character for fans but not for mainstream. Your opinions?

[BubbaGump]

No.

Okay, okay. That was too vague.

No Hush.

[The Mighty Wind]

Maybe its because never read the abomination that was Hush Returns, but I can't help but feel that if you take the very basics of who Hush is as a character and use him for, say, the fourth movie giving him and entirely different story, he could be extremely interesting.

Simply take somebody with a massive hate-on for Bruce Wayne, so much so that they have dedicated everything they have into spying on him, looking into his personal life, background checks, etc. and eventually finds out that Bruce is Batman.

In an effort to destroy Bruce he creates the persona of Hush, and creates some sort of plan to destroy Batman. Heck, if late enough in the Franchise, you could almost go the route of Hush by having him employ a bunch of the known Rogues.

[BubbaGump]

There are older characters (Mad Hatter, Riddler) waitng to get a decent interpretation on screen only to get beaten to it by the third mystery villain in Loeb's who-dunnit world? Don't think so.

[CaptainClown]

Unfortunately Mad Hatter is a 3rd string villain that probably won't be featured on screen. Only reason for hush was to create a thread for people to post their opinion. Hush will not make a screen debut it is nice to theorize with others.

[BubbaGump]

Unfortunately Mad Hatter is a 3rd string villain that probably won't be featured on screen. Only reason for hush was to create a thread for people to post their opinion. Hush will not make a screen debut it is nice to theorize with others.

I know...

but don't give WB ideas. :ninja:

[CaptainClown]

If WB was smart they wouldn't listen to the fans. Us fans want all these random obscure stuff that are mostly bad ideas. But who says WB is smart...

[returntovoid]

I think he can work well into Nolanverse, what are other peoples thoughts about Hush?

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Either Hush or Black Mask, One of the two would work perfect, but not both.

[Ixion]

No. His origin/motivation is laughable really and hes not really an interesting character, the Hush storyline worked because it utlilised practically every hero and villain in the Batman universe who were drawn by Jim Lee, and used the Jason Todd angle, those are non-factors really in a movie adaption.

[Batgort]

You don't need to show every villian to bring Hush in, just enough to drive Batman on a series of investigations that apparently lead nowhere, so if Hush were the main villian, you could introduce minor villians along the way.

The origin isn't too bad, and it could be tweaked a bit to play into the existing BB/TDK style, like perhaps it's Harvey's brother or something.

[Closerframe]

I'd rather have Black Mask.

[Ace of Knaves]

i'd rather have martha wayne rise from the grave, jealous of bruces love for his father.

[I Am The Knight]

i'd rather have martha wayne rise from the grave, jealous of bruces love for his father.

You're so right!!! :woot:

[batboy99]

No hush. He's really not that great of a character. Black Mask>> Hush anyday.

[Dark Victory]

I agree with just about everybody else.

Bring in Black Mask, Leave Hush out.

[TheTrickster]

I really like the Hush story, but i'm unsure how it would fit in. We know from begins that Rachel was Bruce's only real friend when he was a kid. Fitting in Elliot may therefore be a problem.

I suppose they could use Rachel as Hush, Reese as Riddler, but that's a pretty big stretch.

[Katsuro]

I'd prefer they not use any characters tied to one specific story. Hush, Holiday, Phantasm, etc. I prefer to let Nolan create his own stories, using classic characters. Like TDK, sure, it had elements from a whole bunch of different stories, but as a whole it was completely original. How boring would it have been if it was just a straight adaptation of The Long Halloween? If we knew every plot twist that was coming?

[returntovoid]

The reason why I prefer Hush over Black Mask is because Black Mask's face gets disfigured, which I think is too similar to Two-Face.

[Keyser Soze]

I wasn't a big fan of Hush in his introduction. But Paul Dini is doing a brilliant job of rehabilitating the character and making him a compelling villain over in Detective Comics right now.

[That-Guy]

I voted "yes" simply because Hush was a character that they never even got right in the comics somehow (and they so COULD have if Loeb and f**ked up the ending so badly). I wouldn't mind seeing them use him in a film and not make him suck.

[Caped Crusader]

Would love to see Hush or Black Mask..

But Batman is at such a low point right now to have either one.. Hopefully the 4th though. or maybe a small part in the 3rd from one of the two. Would deffiently bring back the parents factor and it would be amazing to see the grave scene .

[CaptainClown]

woah, woah woah.... I don't remember making this thread.....I hate hush.....

[Caped Crusader]

you love hush.

[Arsh]

I hate Hush so much... I have no idea why people find him interesting...

[CaptainClown]

I think he looks cool, past that he is just an annoying little child.

[Caped Crusader]

I think he looks cool, past that he is just an annoying little child.

I see where your coming from.. I just think Nolan & Goyer could make it an amazing story on the big screen

[CaptainClown]

They would have to radically change the character simply because he wasn't seen in Bruce's past and it would be kind of cheap to include him randomly. Also angry at Bruce because his parents died doesn't hold up well, even in the comics.

[American_Hobo]

Hush's not popular enough. So does Black Mask.
Doesn't mean they can't use them on the movie, but still....

[Cunning Stunts]

You don't need to show every villian to bring Hush in, just enough to drive Batman on a series of investigations that apparently lead nowhere, so if Hush were the main villian, you could introduce minor villians along the way.

The origin isn't too bad, and it could be tweaked a bit to play into the existing BB/TDK style, like perhaps it's Harvey's brother or something.

I say he could be the new DA that has all the jailed criminals on a leash, and begins releasing them to get ahold of Batman.

[COMPO]

to be honest with the Joker's line "all the inhabidants losing their minds" or sumthin like that it would be good if they showed all different types of Gotham's society 'losing their minds'.

The Corporate-Black Mask (Roman Sionis)

The Educated-Hush (Dr Thomas Elliot)

The Mob-Holiday (Alberto Falcone)

etc

[Joker8906]

I'd love to see a well done black mask.

[ronny]

Hush should be saved for a later date. He's too good a villain to bring out in the third film. But what Nolan should really do is make a mention of Tommy Elliot in film three. That's all, a little comment about one of Bruce's old friends who became a doctor.
Move from there, introduce more villains so that you have a good cast of pawns and then go on to the grand scheme. Perhaps even hear more about Elliot in every film, just so that the audience grasps that he may have some importance later on.
And if they do The Gotham Times again then it would be great to see mention of an old hospita full of dead vagrants in Batman costumes.

[CaptainClown]

He is hardly a good villain, he just complains.

[ronny]

He is hardly a good villain, he just complains.

That's the point. It's even reflected in his name, in that it came from a song about a child who could not be satisfied. Hush is basically an overgrown brat, still angry that he couldn't get his own way.
And I think that such a person would inspire a great deal of animosity from an audience.

[CaptainClown]

Ya... he is an overgrown brat...still doesn't make him a good villain. He blames Bruce for everything and that kind of attitude just annoys and pisses off people. Also I don't care about his name Riddler does riddles, Joker does Jokes, two-face...well had two faces. His character is an annoying child so why would I want to see that on screen? Why would I even want to read that?I would be begging for Batman to break Hush's face.

[Gexmeister]

I don't think he should be in the third movie. There are better, more well-known villains who have'nt gotten the big-screen-treatment yet, or have but were mistreated.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea they couldn't just introduce Elliot and say "oh well he has known Bruce all their lives but we nether mentioned him before because we didn't feel like it"

It just wouldn't work, plus as stated above Hush is basically a spoilt brat.

[[A]]

Would be it the first time that such a new character gets on film..?

[COMPO]

Hush could be a good villian yeah he's a spoilt brat but, isnt all of Batman's villians just spoilt brats anyway with childish angst. Joker lashes out to make everyone miserable like him, Riddler wants to show he's smarter than everyone, Scarecrow wants to create fear to intimidate people etc. And plus, Batman himself is a child in a batsuit so in a way he fits. They're all people lashing out at the world because they feel they've been mistreated Thomas Elliot is no different.

[tyler-durden]

I think he's too new of a character to put in a movie right now, give it some time, some better stories, and then bring in Hush, he was just created.



He does have a cool look though.

[Nirvana]

No Hush.

[COMPO]

that tell us to hush :D lmao
sorry had to be done :D

[Ace of Knaves]

Would be it the first time that such a new character gets on film..?

I know what you mean, but Hush is a very important part of Bruce's childhood. He's not just a character you can throw in and explain later because his motive wouldn't be believable and it would just be, well crap! :D

[Two-Face=Badass]

Definitely no, and I'm not that interested in seeing Black Mask either. Hush is a lame villain that Paul Dini seems to be making a good one out of, but still too recent and experimental. Black Mask on the other hand is a pretty standard and lame villain that I think a lot of people want because he's realistic and dark, when there are far better characters out there.

[Octoberist]

I do have to say that I'm glad that Paul Dini is making Hush into a legit character. It's nice to have some fresh blood that will stick around for a while. Like with Bane, Black Mask or Killer Croc.

[CaptainClown]

bah..... "Bruce Wayne! Your father saved my mother.... I hate you! You're parents died...you always got what you wanted! Grr I am mad! (insert ancient Greek quote) Grr I am mad! (stomp stomp stomp)"

[Octoberist]

i know that Hush is not the best character, but it's nice to see a little variety, and not some throwaway villain. Maybe he's the new Venom?

[CaptainClown]

I agree with you though, we do need new blood in the Rogue Gallery. He isn't even that bad of a character visually, however his whole background needs to be rewritten. His connection to Bruce seems entirely forced.

[Octoberist]

yeah...i agree.

[gwynplaine]

I started reading Hush, then I saw that Joker and his ridiculous witch nose and I put Hush down.

[Ace of Knaves]

Hush can shine my john boy if he likes?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[[A]]

Poor Hush http://i34.tinypic.com/34s15xv.jpg nobody loves him

[Ace of Knaves]

The only love Hush should feel is that of the toilet seat and an ass.

[[A]]

haha that's something

[regwec]

Paul Dini has shown himself to be a master turd-polisher with his treatment of Hush in Detective Comics. He has made the character sinister, shocking and plausible.

[Ace of Knaves]

Interesting, i'll have to check them out.

[dontplaydead27]

okay I haven't read anyones comments on this, i'm saying Hush would be hard to do if they are keeping with the Tommy Elliot thing, because it would seem too "coinky-dink!" that Bruce has a childhood friend that pops up in town....nah if they try to do it like the comics it wouldn't work with one movie.

If they revamped the character, then it might, but not using the childhood friend thing.

[Blackman]

hush will give batman a good martial arts challenge which will be good
so i vote yes

Hush and Black Mask in NExt film

[kid dropper]

**** some hush, leave him and his whole shoehorned existence in bruce's life out of the movies, black mask will be fine, hes the original childhood mate of bruce wayne turned bad. Is anyone aware of any issues of the comics where hush and black mask converse or reminisce?

[Melkay]

I've got three things to say:

1. **** Hush.

2. **** Tommy Elliot.

3. Why is this poll closed? I can't believe someone closed it while the Yes was on top.

[CaptainClown]

you think that is bad? I hate Hush, but I don't remember making this thread.....

[Hound55]

No.

The reason why introducing Hush works (aside from Jim Lee) is BECAUSE Batman has such a riduiculously extensive list of quality rogues making ample suspects that a newly introduced one just comes completely out of left field.

A movie will introduce NEW fans to the world of Gotham... folk who aren't that familiar with his list of rogues beyond the most typically portrayed.

There's a lot of fans out there who thought Scarecrow was a new character... So its hard to say these folk would benefit in full from Hush's introduction.

I like the idea of Zsasz as a creeper villain who was brought in in the first one which most folk overlooked... A third film isn't for Hush.

[The Joker]

No, no, a hundred times NO!

Hush should never be used in a Batman movie. Ever. Use Baby Doll or H.A.R.D.A.C. before Hush.

[Punisher Rising]

I'm on the fence about Hush being in the third film, and you definitely don't want an overload of villains in one movie that can make the plot too convuluted and disjointed even with a two and a half hour running time. I guess I'd have to say no and maybe he should be saved for the fourth instead, but it would all depend on the plot and how everything in it balances out.

[Hound55]

Introducing Hush doesn't necessarily require using a great deal of villains a lot... but it does require quite a few villains to have been previously portrayed to set up smoke screens so that ANOTHER new villain just doesn't seem likely.

Its the kind of film where cameos for past villains could be justified. It needn't be more than a split second flashback of existing villains in Hush's place.

I don't know how many films would be required for a new villain to seem "out of left field", but I'm pretty sure its not three.

[TheWatcher]

Hush rocks!

[CaptainClown]

christ i forgot i made this thread

[firstclassclown]

I think that with Nolan, any villain could work in his franchise.

200th post

[regwec]

Hush has a brilliant design, you have admit. I suppose it borrows from Darkman a bit, but the bandages-and-trenchcoat thing just seems to work.

[CaptainClown]

He is visually compelling but his story needs to be reworked. I think I would be more accepting if they did a new batman series (like comics) where they worked him into it from the beginning and changed his motives a little bit. I really do not care for the wanna be Bruce Wayne aspect.

[Hound55]

He is visually compelling but his story needs to be reworked. I think I would be more accepting if they did a new batman series (like comics) where they worked him into it from the beginning and changed his motives a little bit. I really do not care for the wanna be Bruce Wayne aspect.
To me Hush worked BECAUSE he wasn't brought in early.

The rogues in Batman are so established that bringing a new villain into the mix just seemed to come out of left field...

[Crook]

Yeah, a rework is within bounds of acceptance if he'd be translated to film. His design alone is enough for me to want him on-screen in some fashion. With the brilliance of the Nolan brothers, I'm positive they could craft a very compelling suspense/mystery revolving around him.

Then there's the factor of his "cool factor". There are very few villains (especially new ones) who visually knock it out the park at first glance. Hush is definitely amongst those select groups. I could definitely see the general audience being intrigued by his presence in a Batman film.

[CaptainClown]

To me Hush worked BECAUSE he wasn't brought in early.

The rogues in Batman are so established that bringing a new villain into the mix just seemed to come out of left field...
Well I mean establishing Thomas Elliot so he wasn't brought in like "oh ya bruce wayne had a friend and he hated him.. and he is hush...get it? lets move on"

[COMPO]

They could keep the Bruce Wayne stalker story but then we had that in Batman forever lol

JIM CARREY FOR HUSH :P

[Steyin]

I'd say yes only if they were to re-work his origin slightly, something stronger than I hate you for making it so my mom is alive, etc.

Honestly though, I wouldn't mind a flashback that shows a young Bruce who gets injured playing with a boy named Thomas Elliot, then goes to see Doctor Leslie Thompkins. Leave "Hush" at that for someone to expand off of in the future as a potential set up, but use this more so to introduce Leslie.

[regwec]

Well I mean establishing Thomas Elliot so he wasn't brought in like "oh ya bruce wayne had a friend and he hated him.. and he is hush...get it? lets move on"

I was fine with that from the outset of the story line because it seemed that Elliot was being set up as the man behind the mask so obviously that he must be a red herring. But then he wasn't. That left the story with a "Scooby Doo" feeling; the guy in the monster suit turned out to be the one with the motive and the evil cackle who isn't in it every other week.

I like the character, though. He is better written by Dini than Loeb, in my opinion. Dini seems to flesh out his character with more finesse; he is jealous, aquisitive, narcissistic and a bit cowardly; but he also very intelligent and very patient.

Hush could be great in a movie. Used properly, he is Batman's most satisfying alter-ego.

[Knight Rise]

Hush is a great character. Him combined with Black Mask i think would be perfect

[ScarecrowMan666]

Hush is a great character. Him combined with Black Mask i think would be perfect

Pretty sure I put this in another thread, but don't you think Hush combined with black mask would be a bit much? I say one or the other. That said, Hush probably would work pretty well in the Nolan-verse

[Mr. Earle]

I love Hush, so yeah i'd have no problem with him. Btw, i agree with Regwec above.

[baleheadbrasil]

Yes, Hush can work well into Nolanverse!
It seems Nolan likes the character.

[Mr. Earle]

Yes, Hush can work well into Nolanverse!
It seems Nolan likes the character.How do you know that?

[The Guard]

I'd prefer not to see him at the expense of more deserving characters. He's ok. What is Dini doing with him that's made him a good villain?

I can't believe people are praising the design. He has a trenchcoat with bandages on his head.

[Mr. Earle]

I'd prefer not to see him at the expense of more deserving characters. He's ok. What is Dini doing with him that's made him a good villain?He's tried to salvage Loeb's origin but he could only do so much without retconning everything. Other than that he's used the Elliots to give us more details about the Waynes, Bruce, Thomas and Martha which is always nice. In his sequel to "Heart of Hush" we find out that Martha was a badass and Thomas was a bit of a drunk playboy, kind of like the man Bruce pretends to be in the nolanverse. I guess Martha set him straight when she married him. We also find out that Bruce knew Zatana from childhood (its a Dini story, what did you expect?) because their parents knew each other.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7950/batmanstreetsofgotham16.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/batmanstreetsofgotham16.jpg/)

So much D'AWWWWW!!!!

Anyway, Dini writes a great Tommy Elliot. He is a real flesh and blood character. Like Regwec said, he is jealous, aquisitive, narcissistic and a bit cowardly; but he also very intelligent and very patient. As Hush he has done a lot more than manipulate other villains and shoot guns, with his masterpiece being that he performed plastic surgery on his face and he now impersonates Bruce, which fit like a glove to Morrison's story and Bruce's death. I find that a very interesting plot. Hush actually lives in Wayne Tower, attends meetings as Bruce, funds charities, etc. Of course Dick has put heroes (in this case Zatana) to watch over him so in essense he is currently a prisoner, but you can see how close he is and how dangerous he can become.

I can't believe people are praising the design. He has a trenchcoat with bandages on his head.
Come on, his suit is badass. He looks way better than most of Batman's rogues.

[Octoberist]

Let's say Hush is in the movie, I think they will retool his look. As much as I like it, I can see maybe Nolan combining elements of Black Mask and give Hush..a solid mask of some sort.

[Mr. Earle]

When did Black Mask become so cool that he's popping up in every discussion? He sucks, his design sucks.... What's wrong with Hush'es bandages?

[The Joker]

The day they use Hush is the day this franchise jumps the shark. He has one of the lamest motivations for hating Bruce Wayne.

[baleheadbrasil]

How do you know that?

I read it somewhere...don´t remember exactly.

[Knight Rise]

I read it somewhere...don´t remember exactly.

i read about it too. if someone could find the article, that'd be great. but yeah there was something that said Hush is Nolan's favorite villain

[RustyCage]

If you're going to complain about Hush's design being nothing more than 'bandages and a trenchcoat', you might as well complain about Two-Face being nothing more than a guy in a (sometimes dual-colored) suit with half his face screwed up. Etc, etc.

Hush's design, while simple (as if there's anything wrong with simple), evokes something intense and mysterious, and fits very well with Batman's world. :up: I think he looks really cool.

[The Guard]

Two-Face is called "Two-Face". He looks like a guy with dual elements.

Hush is called "Hush". What do bandages have to do with that?

Call me crazy, but I feel like Two-Face's design is a hell of a lot more interesting and relevant than Hush's Invisible Man ripoff look. AND Two-Face can wear gloves and a trenchcoat sometimes! Oh. Hush is a plastic surgeon, and so he wears bandages. That's terribly clever.

I'd have fewer issues if he had something to do with The Invisible Man's elements, but he doesn't.

[Mr. Earle]

Two-Face is called "Two-Face". he looks like a guy with dual elements.

Hush is called "Hush". What do bandages have to do with that?

Call me crazy, but I feel like Two-Face's design is a hell of a lot more interesting and relevant than Hush's Invisible Man ripoff look. Oh. He's a plastic surgeon, and so he wears bandages. That's terribly clever.

I'd have fewer issues if he had something to do with The Invisible Man's elements, but he doesn't.
Now you re just whining over nothing. So you dont like his design, is that such a big deal?

[The Joker]

Now you re just whining over nothing. So you dont like his design, is that such a big deal?

These words are funny coming from you of all people, Earle :oldrazz: :cwink:

[RustyCage]

Hush is called "Hush". What do bandages have to do with that?

That's something that I don't recall being directly expressed in the comics, but I could offer my own interpretation of it. There's not much point to that though.

I think it was based on the 'Hush Little Baby' song.

Call me crazy, but I feel like Two-Face's design is a hell of a lot more interesting and relevant than Hush's Invisible Man ripoff look.

Considering Two-Face is based off of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, I don't really see the issue. I like that sort of inspiration for characters.

Plus, it's not like dual identities are all that terribly original. Not that I'm knocking the concept, or Two-Face, but calling him any more creative than Hush is folly.

And 'relevant' to what, exactly? His name? Do all names have to be based on what the character looks like? What about their motives or their views? Hush applies to the latter, certainly. The former is debatable - and in my opinion, less necessary.

I'd have fewer issues if he had something to do with The Invisible Man's elements, but he doesn't.

That plastic surgery you were just undercutting does just that, though more subtly and less scifi than what you probably had in mind.

Thomas Elliot no longer exists. He's invisible. He can't even go back to who he was anymore because of his obsession, and now because of the surgery. He can only live as the shadow of a man he hates. He can only be a faux Bruce Wayne. Wrapping himself in bandages and becoming Hush is what gives him his own image so that he's visible, just like the Invisible Man.

[Mr. Earle]

These words are funny coming from you of all people, Earle :oldrazz: :cwink:
I know, but Hush is a character he doesnt really care about (unlike me whining about WW for example) and since the costume isnt offensive or anything, why not let it pass? I personally like the practicality of it. Elliot just put on a trenchcoat and covered his head in bandages because he's a ****ing doctor. It suits him.
Thomas Elliot no longer exists. He's invisible. He can't even go back to who he was anymore because of his obsession, and now because of the surgery. He can only live as the shadow of a man he hates. He can only be a faux Bruce Wayne. Wrapping himself in bandages and becoming Hush is what gives him his own image so that he's visible, just like the Invisible Man.
Eh, if he can make himself look pass as BW through plastic surgey, i bet he can go back just as easily. Its comics, give him magical surgical skills!

[Bat-Mite]

The day they use Hush is the day this franchise jumps the shark. He has one of the lamest motivations for hating Bruce Wayne.QFT. I also doubt that Nolan would want to use a villain that's been around for less than ten years. Schumacher did that with disastrous results. I mean, I know that Batman and Robin is viewed as a rotten egg in general, but they made Bane even more underwhelming in that movie than he actually is in the comics. :doh:

[Mr. Earle]

QFT. I also doubt that Nolan would want to use a villain that's been around for less than ten years. Schumacher did that with disastrous results. I mean, I know that Batman and Robin is viewed as a rotten egg in general, but they made Bane even more underwhelming in that movie than he actually is in the comics. :doh:
So what, a character's value is measured by how long he's been in comics? And Bane was underwhelming in the comics? Really?

[RustyCage]

Eh, if he can make himself look pass as BW through plastic surgey, i bet he can go back just as easily. Its comics, give him magical surgical skills!

I suppose that's possible, but when it comes down to it, would he really want to?

And since this thread is about his inclusion in the third Nolan film, I wouldn't think that the magical elements of comics would be available to us. I dunno if Nolan would want to do a Face/Off thing though. Luckily there're other ways to use Hush - or heck, even expand on or improve him.

[The Guard]

I think it was based on the 'Hush Little Baby' song.

Then shouldn't he be like, dressed as a giant mockingbird and wearing diamond brass knuckles, and use trick mirrors for weapons? And apparently also have a pet goat, and a Hush Cart that a bull pulls him around in?

Considering Two-Face is based off of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, I don't really see the issue. I like that sort of inspiration for characters.

The issue is that one of them is bandages and a trenchcoat. The other is an actual character design that is also relevant to the name of the character.

Plus, it's not like dual identities are all that terribly original. Not that I'm knocking the concept, or Two-Face, but calling him any more creative than Hush is folly.

So you think a character who actually looks like what he's called, calls to mind a famous literary character with decent cultural and comic book impact, and has an actual connection to it, is a worse design than someone who just rips off a famous literary characters look without an actual tangible connection to it, adds a trenchcoat, and maintains a look that has next to nothing to do with what his name is?

And 'relevant' to what, exactly? His name? Do all names have to be based on what the character looks like? What about their motives or their views? Hush applies to the latter, certainly. The former is debatable - and in my opinion, less necessary.

Well, yeah. A supervillain should probably have some visual elements that call to mind what they say they are.

What do Tommy's bandages have to do with him? While writers keep reinventing him to keep him around and relevant, he's only reinvented himself twice that I can think of.

How does the name "Hush" actually apply to Tommy and who he is, and what he does?

That plastic surgery you were just undercutting does just that, though more subtly and less scifi than what you probably had in mind.

What now?

Thomas Elliot no longer exists. He's invisible. He can't even go back to who he was anymore because of his obsession, and now because of the surgery. He can only live as the shadow of a man he hates. He can only be a faux Bruce Wayne. Wrapping himself in bandages and becoming Hush is what gives him his own image so that he's visible, just like the Invisible Man.

Except that he looked like the Invisible Man before he made himself look like Bruce Wayne, Batman constantly calls him "Tommy", and he still has all of Tommy Elliot's motivations.

Also, The Invisible Man didn't no longer exist.

He was just actually invisible.

I feel like if Hush is so interested in the Invisible Man element, that maybe his name should be "Inviso" or "The Invisible Man", and maybe he shouldn't have named himself after a lullaby.

I care about Hush. I never said I don't like his look...it's ok. I just said it's not terribly clever, and that the costume isn't a great reason to want to see the character onscreen. The thing about Hush is that he sort of works better if there are already a ton of villains in Batman's world to bounce off.

And how is having to wrap and unwrap your head with bandages practical? It would take forever.

[Bat-Mite]

So what, a character's value is measured by how long he's been in comics? Not necessarily, but characters who have been around for decades, like the Joker, Catwoman, and Hugo Strange, have TONS of different stories and interpretations to draw from. Lots of background material = lots of story potential. A character like Hush... not so much. The only positive thing that Hush's newness offers is that the movie writers might be able to treat him as a blank slate and come up with something more compelling than what's been given in the comics (though to be fair, I haven't read Dini's take on the character yet).

And Bane was underwhelming in the comics? Really?I believe so, yes. Someone (it may have been Keyser Sushi) recently compared him to Venom from the Spider-Man comics. I think that's a great comparison. He's not loved because there's any particular depth to his character, but because "OMG he broke Batman's back once!" I'm just not impressed by that, or by Knightfall in particular. And for all the talk about how he's one of Batman's most intelligent foes, in all the comics I've read that feature him, he still comes across as a mere steroid addicted luchador with a chip on his shoulder.

[Octoberist]

I don't enough about Bane to make a comment about him, but I do agree that he looks like a giant...luchador.

[RustyCage]

Then shouldn't he be like, dressed as a mockingbird and wearing diamond brass knuckes, and use trick mirrors for weapons? And apparently also have a pet goat, and a Hush Cart that a bull pulls him around in?

You can't seriously prefer that idea just because it fits the name better. :oldrazz:

The issue is that one of them is bandages and a trenchcoat. The other is an actual character design that is also relevant to the name of the character.

Here, how's this? To 'Hush' is to silence. To be silent is to be invisible. By wrapping his face in bandages, he's silencing Thomas Elliot (and obviously referencing the Invisible Man). That's not too much of a stretch, is it?

Another way the name is relevant is that, by replacing Bruce Wayne, he's letting Bruce 'hush' and sleep in invisibility, while he himself continues to lack his own identity, rendering both of them invisible. So there's your Invisible Man reflection (two-fold) and your connection to the word 'Hush'.

So you think a character who actually looks like what he's called, ...

Argument above.

is a worse design than someone who just rips off a famous literary characters look without an actual tangible connection to it

So he should rip off more instead of less then? :oldrazz: Again, made the connection above. It's good enough for me, and I'm sorry if it's not good enough for you. Nolan could perhaps appease you here.

Further: I didn't say it was a 'worse design'. I just said it wasn't any more creative when linking the name to his visage. In fact, Two-Face is more derivative and less original in that regard if we go with your claim that Hush doesn't rip enough things off. But regardless of that, I expressed that I liked the Jekyll and Hyde inspiration.

So I thought I was being pretty clear in saying that I wasn't knocking Two-Face here. Please don't put words in my mouth, Guard. I used to respect you for not doing things like that to people when constructing arguments.

Except that Batman constantly calls him "Tommy".

And The Invisible Man didn't no longer exist.

He was just actually invisible.

Yes, hence me saying it was more 'subtle' and thus more of a comment on invisibility than literal invisibility. Just like Bruce Wayne isn't actually a bat. I don't know how any of that explanation flew over your head.

I never said I don't like his look...

Considering you think his look is completely irrelevant to his name and what he does (which I obviously disagree with), and the fact that you're so appalled by the idea of anyone thinking it's a good design:

I can't believe people are praising the design.

... I find it pretty obvious that you dislike how he looks. Your established standard is negative toward it.

The thing about Hush is that he sort of works better if there are already a ton of villains in Batman's world to bounce off.

I wouldn't rule this out for the film. Well, maybe not a 'ton' at this point, but people have been suggesting that maybe the floodgates are open after TDK. Not to mention, we've got a couple of high profile rogues in Arkham right now.

And how is having to wrap and unwrap your head with bandages practical? It would take forever.

Well, surely there is time between scenes for it. Just like there's time for Batman to suit up in his complicated, segmented armor in a pinch in TDK - or for the Joker to apply his make-up and get dressed up in all those clothes. It's suspension of disbelief. I'd like to see him unwrap or re-wrap sometime though, at least part of the process to sort of get into his head for a silent moment. Would be pretty cool to watch.

Plus, he's likely got a knack for doing it quickly/efficiently considering his skill pursuits. :up:

[RustyCage]

I believe so, yes. Someone (it may have been Keyser Sushi) recently compared him to Venom from the Spider-Man comics. I think that's a great comparison. He's not loved because there's any particular depth to his character, but because "OMG he broke Batman's back once!"

Strange. That's not why I love Venom or Bane. What a completely uneducated summary of things. That's pretty insulting, actually.

[Mr. Earle]

He's called Hush because his mother singed that song to him and because he often said "hush" in Loeb's story.

[Mr. Earle]

How does the name "Hush" actually apply to Tommy and who he is, and what he does?It doesnt. So i guess that makes Two-Face a shakespearean character, because being a mobster with half your face deformed and robbing the second bank on gotham on 2/2 is so DEEP because "herpa derp duality you guys".

Also, from Wiki:
Elliot created for himself the persona of Hush (The name is said to have been coined by the Scarecrow, referencing the lullaby "Hush Little Baby" due to its subject being a child who could never be satisfied with what he had).
which ties precisely to Elliot's character.
And how is having to wrap and unwrap your head with bandages practical? It would take forever.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6462/chrisnolan.jpg

I know man, i want realism in my comics too.

[EndofDays]

I really like Hush and think he's perfect for the Nolanverse. I think as a plastic surgeon who does surgeries on himself the bandages were just the logical mask to wear no more no less. After he changes his appearance he has to wear the bandages as part of the healing process. So if he planned ahead, and we know he did, he'd be prepared to have to wear the bandages while executing his plan so why not just wear them from the beginning instead of some other mask that won't work once he has to put the bandages on post surgery.

I thought Hush for his name really was more along the lines of a secret. Like in LA confidential. Hush Hush and on the QT.

[RustyCage]

I feel like if Hush is so interested in the Invisible Man element, that maybe his name should be "Inviso" or "The Invisible Man", and maybe he shouldn't have named himself after a lullaby.

I think Scarecrow gave him the name, actually, based on his actions. It's been a while though.

'Inviso'? Really? 'Hush' is infinitely cooler than that, to me - and if you give it a little thought, it works fine.

And calling him 'The Invisible Man' is akin to saying they should have named Harvey Dent 'Harvey Jekyll', and Two-Face 'Mr. Hyde'. What is the point of that? Waaay too blatant, to the point that it's ridiculous. Two-Face isn't that unoriginal, and neither is Hush. I can't see anybody enjoying that kind of thing.

[Mr. Earle]

I believe so, yes. Someone (it may have been Keyser Sushi) recently compared him to Venom from the Spider-Man comics. I think that's a great comparison. He's not loved because there's any particular depth to his character, but because "OMG he broke Batman's back once!" I'm just not impressed by that, or by Knightfall in particular. And for all the talk about how he's one of Batman's most intelligent foes, in all the comics I've read that feature him, he still comes across as a mere steroid addicted luchador with a chip on his shoulder.
I dont like Knightfall nor Bane for that matter, but he was very impressive in that. He's been shown to be a great fighter and a genius who can even outmaneuvre Ras, and i hear that he's awesome in Secret Six which i intend to pick up at some point.

[RustyCage]

I thought Hush for his name really was more along the lines of a secret.

And this. Nice. :up:

[The Joker]

Then shouldn't he be like, dressed as a giant mockingbird and wearing diamond brass knuckles, and use trick mirrors for weapons? And apparently also have a pet goat, and a Hush Cart that a bull pulls him around in?

:lmao:

[Knight Rise]

I really like Hush and think he's perfect for the Nolanverse. I think as a plastic surgeon who does surgeries on himself the bandages were just the logical mask to wear no more no less. After he changes his appearance he has to wear the bandages as part of the healing process. So if he planned ahead, and we know he did, he'd be prepared to have to wear the bandages while executing his plan so why not just wear them from the beginning instead of some other mask that won't work once he has to put the bandages on post surgery.

I thought Hush for his name really was more along the lines of a secret. Like in LA confidential. Hush Hush and on the QT.

well put my friend :up:

[The Riddler]

no hush, please.

[Two-Face=Badass]

I wouldn't want Hush to be the film's villain simply because I do not believe he's a good villain at all. I like what Dini's done with him, but it's patchwork done on a horrible character who's primary motivation for hating Bruce Wayne was "Your father saved my parent's lives". Even since then, with Dini's expanded details I still find him a waste, if much more enjoyable and oddly likeable.

His title "Hush" doesn't really hold any meaning in him, or for a theme in a final Batman film. At first it was basically "Vaguely ties to child he wants what he can never have, despite the fact Hush already has it" and while the "quiet son enforced by the parents" interpretation is much better, it still holds little relevance for a great theme or story, the same for the Aristotle quotes which even under Dini are quite random and merely manipulated quotes for the villain's own intentions, sort of like cutting and pasting bits from Nietzsche philosophy to make it say "People are great and generally well-meaning".

He's ultimately a man that makes no sense, even his look has no comparisons with Aristotle, or his title, or his motivations. They are seemingly chosen simply because they look cool and Loeb thought a motivation based on hereditary sins that aren't sins at all was an actual motivation. All this could be a good character, particularly one that only appears once or twice, since it makes for the possibility of a fascinating dissection of superhero/villain identities which are often ill-thought out and contradictory. But that is not what Hush is. Hush is a character that riffs off of so much while meaning so very little. He has almost no connection to the works he quotes, other than having heard them, and is yet another character designed to be the "anti-Batman" joining the ranks of Prometheus, Wrath, Bane, Owlman and Roman Sionis, and like a few of them exists solely because of Bruce Wayne, which is actually something that directly opposes what Batman is meant to stand for - making Gotham a better place.

[Mr. Earle]

He quotes Aristotle because he is an elitist douchebag and because Aristotle suits his personal philosophy, or so he thinks. He could have been quoting Machiavelli because he dealt with strategy, war, etc so what's the problem if a guy quotes a famous philosopher?

Also, i dont see why Hush's name or costume need to be symbolic or whatever. He's a doctor, he doesnt want to put on a fancy suit, so a trenchcoat and some bandages are enough for him.

Why cant you guys appreciate the character for who he is (an evil magnificent bastard), the wonderful plot he executed in "Heart of Hush", as well as the potential that his fortune, class and surgical skills provide? No, lets keep whining about the stupid name.

Wow, it seems that i'm no longer the resident whiner of SHH, and i'm on the chill side now. Ah.. how time flies! :oldrazz:

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Any character can be adapted so that it fits in the world these movies are set in. Some would be more loyal to the comics counter part but its doable and Hush would be one of them imo

[EndofDays]

He quotes Aristotle because his mother forced him to read Aristotle to deal with his alcoholic abusive Father. He's not mad because Dr. Wayne saved his parents. He's mad because he tried to kill his parents and take their money, and Dr. Wayne saved his mother. A mother who ignored him, and the fact that his father abused him so she could live in the lap of luxury. He then went to the nut hut where he met Jonathan Crane. I'm sure their time together didn't mess him up any... His mom constantly compares him to Bruce and what failure he is. Then his mom cuts him off because of who he's dating. So he kills her.

Seems like a good reason to dislike Bruce Wayne to me.... What's the Riddler's motivation? That he thinks he's smart?

[ScarecrowMan666]

Hush is a strange subject for me...you have to understand that when I first learned about him, I thought he was such a cool looking villain, and I bought the action figure of him almost immediately. Now, in understanding that, you must also realize that I hadn't read one single bit of the Hush comic material. So I bought Hush parts 1 and 2...I read them...and I realized I didn't like Hush nearly as much as I thought I did. But a little bit of time went by, and I decided to read the Hush stuff one more time. This time around, I appreciated him alot more, and began to regret the fact that I ever traded off my Hush action figure. I think he's pretty damn brilliant actually, and it's getting to the point to where I would love to see him in a Batman movie, especially a Nolan Batman movie for the fact that he is a threat to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Just imagine the things Nolan could do with this character. Talk about somebody filling the rather large shoes left for The Joker. I'm all for it. :awesome:

[Mr. Earle]

You should read "Heart of Hush", its brilliant. Dini is currently writing a sequel to it in the Streets of Gotham book, but it hasnt been finished yet.

[Reikowolf]

I was just talking to some friends about this possibility.

It could be a good way to reintroduce the League of Shadows.

Hush having taken the offer that Bruce Wayne turned down.

[Bat-Mite]

Strange. That's not why I love Venom or Bane. What a completely uneducated summary of things. That's pretty insulting, actually.That whole post was meant to be insulting. To the character, however, not to those that like him. That little bit about him breaking Batman's back was just my observation about why he seems to be so popular. I could very well be wrong, but that's the thing that seems to come up time and again whenever he's mentioned, not anything particularly brilliant he's done. Admittedly, I do try to avoid comics that feature him prominently, because the ones that I have read tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Still, if my post was so uneducated, feel free to enlighten me about what makes the luchador so spectacular. To tell you the truth, I find the child version of him that stabs people with a knife hidden in his teddy more compelling than the adult version. If they'd just stuck with mini Bane, I might have liked him.

[Mr. Earle]

Oh for ****s sake we've been over this before. Bane has a brilliant and he is far more compelling than breaking Batman's back. He's even outmaneuvred Ras once, and from what i hear he is freaking awesome in the Secret Six book. So why dont you read more about him before passing judgement?

I dont like the character either, but i can see why others might.

[The Guard]

I like Hush's look, though I don't think it's a brilliant design.

I do, in fact, not prefer my Hush joke costume because I like the fact that it fits the name. It was a joke.

I was also making a joke aboutthe bandages being hard to put on and take off.

I was also making a joke about him being named Inviso and The Invisible Man.

Maybe they should just have revamped No Face from the Golden Age and had Hush be him.

Bane breaking Batman's back is pretty impressive, actually. The problem with Bane, is that we're told he's a master strategician, but we hardly ever see it. We see watered down strategies, and hints of strategies. A good adaption of the character would need to go deeper into his analytical and strategy-driven mind. Also paramount to Bane's character is his defeat because of his reliance on Venom, and his return without it.

I think some of the explanations given for Hush's look here are decent, but reaching a bit. Some of them are contingent on what Hush is doing right now in the comics, and not really relevant to what Hush was doing when he first appeared.

Rusty, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Just misinterpreted what you said. I do, however, feel that Two-Face's costume is a bit more creative in terms of how it relates to both his namesake and his inspiration than Hush's is.

I should have clarified my position on Hush being around a lot of villains. I think he works best when he's around a lot of villains with reputations, when he's either trying to be them, or to manipulate them.

Mr Earle, I don't recall saying that Two-Face is a Shakesphearean character, but a character named Two-Face having a split face and design sure hits the nail on the head more than being called "Hush" and having a bandaged face.

Hush dresses up like The Invisible Man...but his name comes from a lullaby. If his desire was to look that way, and to be considered invisible...shouldn't his name follow suit? It's because of this kind of stuff that I find Hush one of the vaguest, most meandering characters out there. Writers haven't quite figured him out, in part because there wasn't really much there to begin with that was solid. He's sort of unique that way. It kind of feels like he says his name is "Hush", and is always saying it just because Jeph Loeb determined he should be called "Hush". I get that this is what he heard as a child...but beyond it being something he remembers as a child, how does it have any relevance to Tommy himself? What is he aware of about it that causes him to name himself after it? More to the point, how are any of those elements unique in villains? He has a secret. Great. Everyone does. He wants more for himself than he currently has. Great. Every villain does. The only thing he really has going is his plastic surgery element, which is kind of unique, but not enough for a character to hinge on. Maybe he should be named Facelift, and he can have henchmen called Nip and Tuck. It often seems to me like they're trying to roll all of Batman's main villains into one character with Hush. And let me ask you this...what would Hush even do in the movie? Is he going to cut out Catwoman's heart and hold her hostage with it? Is he going to rile up villains in a year long crossover? What's his story going to be? Because simple revenge because Bruce's dad saved his parents when he tried to kill them just wouldn't be enough.

Thoughts?

[The Demon's Head]

While Hush is a much more compelling villain than Black Mask, I don't think he can work as the main villain, without some major tweaking.

It's way to early to bring him in, anyway.

[EndofDays]

When I said his name referred to a secret it was in reference to his whole first appearance, and how he has a secret master plan to take down the Bat, and keep his identity a secret as well.

The series itself was a who dunnit murder mystery type of story. Every villain is working for or being manipulated by Hush, but no one knows who he is. Mister "E" is already taken. So when he talks to a villain or anyone he meets he goes Fight Club on them, and the first rule about me is you don't talk about me or what you're doing for me. I'm on the QT and very Hush Hush.

Just my interpretation of the character and his name. I think my theory on his outfit and bandages is spot on tho.

[Mr. Earle]

I like Hush's look, though I don't think it's a brilliant design.

I do, in fact, not prefer my Hush joke costume because I like the fact that it fits the name. It was a joke.

I was also making a joke aboutthe bandages being hard to put on and take off.

I was also making a joke about him being named Inviso and The Invisible Man.

Maybe they should just have revamped No Face from the Golden Age and had Hush be him.Next time, try not to joke so much when you re making a point.
I think some of the explanations given for Hush's look here are decent, but reaching a bit. Some of them are contingent on what Hush is doing right now in the comics, and not really relevant to what Hush was doing when he first appeared.
Yes, we all know that Loeb's story sucked, but DC has been really trying with this character and he's developed a lot since then. As opposed to ****ty villains like Black Mask that people keep championing around here. For some reason Hush is still tainted by Loeb's crappy story, while bland villains like Black Mask not only get a pass, but are considered the second coming.

Hush dresses up like The Invisible Man...but his name comes from a lullaby. If his desire was to look that way, and to be considered invisible...shouldn't his name follow suit? It's because of this kind of stuff that I find Hush one of the vaguest, most meandering characters out there.He isnt into flamboyant costumes, so he simply put on a trenchcoat and some bandages. Did he really need to dress up in a supervillain costume? Or would you rather he called himself "Mummy in a trenchoat"?
Writers haven't quite figured him out, in part because there wasn't really much there to begin with that was solid. There wasnt much there then, but Dini writes a great Hush. You should read it some time.
I get that this is what he heard as a child...but beyond it being something he remembers as a child, how does it have any relevance to Tommy himself? Its more relevant to the Loeb story where he was pulling the strings behind the scenes, and he was so secretive. Hush worked well in that respect.
What's his story going to be? Because simple revenge because Bruce's dad saved his parents when he tried to kill them just wouldn't be enough.

Thoughts?Friend of Bruce's (he doesnt have to be from childhood) that is envious of Bruce. His mother always compared him to Bruce, told him how worthless he was, yadda, yadda. Hush could compete with Bruce over Gotham's heart, by giving away to charity (nolan's bruce hasnt done that so far) and all that, while at the same time manipulating villains against Batman, who he knows is Bruce. I'm sure that a villain who mirrors Bruce so much could be used in a story about redemption. If i know how Nolan plans to redeem him i could tell you more, but frankly i have no idea how it will work.

[CrimsonDeath]

Not necessarily, but characters who have been around for decades, like the Joker, Catwoman, and Hugo Strange, have TONS of different stories and interpretations to draw from. Lots of background material = lots of story potential. A character like Hush... not so much. The only positive thing that Hush's newness offers is that the movie writers might be able to treat him as a blank slate and come up with something more compelling than what's been given in the comics (though to be fair, I haven't read Dini's take on the character yet).

I believe so, yes. Someone (it may have been Keyser Sushi) recently compared him to Venom from the Spider-Man comics. I think that's a great comparison. He's not loved because there's any particular depth to his character, but because "OMG he broke Batman's back once!" I'm just not impressed by that, or by Knightfall in particular. And for all the talk about how he's one of Batman's most intelligent foes, in all the comics I've read that feature him, he still comes across as a mere steroid addicted luchador with a chip on his shoulder.

Maybe you never read the two Vengence of Bane specials nor the Batman: Bane of the Demon miniseries? That's what I liked about the character. After Chuck Dixon stopped writing him, only Gail Simone has done Bane justice.

Dini gave Hush a better, deeper motive for hating Bruce, as originally given it just wasn't enough for me, in fact it was seriously lacking. But that was then.

Now I wish the KGBeast was done justice too.

All these characters would fit in this Nolan world fine, but Bane and Hush depend so much on an already established Batman world, and we know the Nolan Dark Knight is barely going to rise. Hush is too personal a villian, and this Batman has not even started his "family." Bane would work better in the Nolan world, but Batman right now has very little to lose after his battle with the Joker. To do these villains justice onscreen a more mature(established?, seasoned?) Nolan Batman would be ideal.

I am really, really eager to see what Nolan does with his villains, 'cause if there is no Catwoman, nor a Riddler, I am starting to wonder if the Joker and Ra's are the only villains capable of sustaining a full story on film and have the movie be thematically balanced. Two-Face would have been the best. The totality of their ideologies completely and destructively clashed with the beliefs of Batman. Ra's wants to kill the corrupt, Batman wants to wake them out of apathy. The Joker wants to corrupt the good, Batman wants to give them hope. Two-Face leaves the responsibility of his actions to chaos and chance, Batman leaves that responsibility on what is right. The ideologies of other possible villains merely play against what Batman stands for.

It's going to be interesting for me to see who is the main villain and analyze why thematically Nolan chose him/her/it.

[Mr. Earle]

Hush is too personal a villian, and this Batman has not even started his "family
Hm, good point! http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Knight Rise]

Batman: Rachel you're alive
Hush: DIE!!!!!!!!!!!
Batman: Never mind

[brewme99]

i like the character of hush but i think its too early to bring him in. one of the great aspects of hush's introduction was the "who is it?" the nolanverse doesnt have enough of the rouges gallery established to really play off of the guessing game. using hush in the next movie, would be a waste of the character because we simply dont have the ground work laid out for his introduction.

[Knight Rise]

i like the character of hush but i think its too early to bring him in. one of the great aspects of hush's introduction was the "who is it?" the nolanverse doesnt have enough of the rouges gallery established to really play off of the guessing game. using hush in the next movie, would be a waste of the character because we simply dont have the ground work laid out for his introduction.

really

(flashback to the scene with blowing up of car, scene of the comissioner dieing from glass, scene of solving the enemies on the building)

they can do a guessing game. plus they have the whole criminals that were never caught that can play into this

[Two-Face=Badass]

really

(flashback to the scene with blowing up of car, scene of the comissioner dieing from glass, scene of solving the enemies on the building)

they can do a guessing game. plus they have the whole criminals that were never caught that can play into this
That's not realy what the rogues gallery is, they're just crooks. The rogues gallery refers to Batman's recurring foes such as the Joker, Ra's, Riddler etc.

[Two-Face=Badass]

He quotes Aristotle because he is an elitist douchebag and because Aristotle suits his personal philosophy, or so he thinks. He could have been quoting Machiavelli because he dealt with strategy, war, etc so what's the problem if a guy quotes a famous philosopher?

The problem he what he does, his motivation, his mindset, his philosophy are totally removed from Aristotle. You said it yourself above, he could've been quoting Machiavelli, or Nietzsche, or even the Bible, since everything he says is just cut-and-pasted random quotations that don't even support what he is saying if one was to know the context. By his example, any text is fair game, I could quote pieces of the Shawshank Redemption to "show" that hope is meaningless and wasteful, but it is still totally removed from the text's meaning. Just like Hush is, the elitism you speak of could provide for an amusing deconstruction of so-called "deep" vilain that really aren't. But Hush isn't a parody, or a satire, or clever take-that, he's a character who constantly quotes a philosopher for no decent reason other than his mother taught him to.

Also, i dont see why Hush's name or costume need to be symbolic or whatever. He's a doctor, he doesnt want to put on a fancy suit, so a trenchcoat and some bandages are enough for him.

The problem is that almost all of Batman's rogues gallery have thematic and symbolic identities and costumes. The Riddler is an enigma, The Joker thinks of the world as one cruel joke, Two-Face is a man of split-personalities and dual nature, Ra's Al Ghul is translated as The Demon's Head, underlying his mysticism and deeds. Hush holds no greater meaning, no reveal, and while it could, even under Dini, he's still a mish-mash of attributes that make less than a whole.

Why cant you guys appreciate the character for who he is (an evil magnificent bastard), the wonderful plot he executed in "Heart of Hush", as well as the potential that his fortune, class and surgical skills provide? No, lets keep whining about the stupid name.

Wow, it seems that i'm no longer the resident whiner of SHH, and i'm on the chill side now. Ah.. how time flies! :oldrazz:
But he's not a magnificent bastard, he's the furthest from it. His plot in Heart of Hush while compelling was doomed to failure from the start, based entirely on the presumption that he could take down the entire Batfamily and escape the detection of the JLA and wider DC universe, which would not happen. His fortune and class certainly provide potential, but the potential has not been taken much advantage of, and even those were previously taken by Roman Sionis, another squandered character. His surgical skills are atleast used under Dini, but ultimately are just an interesting modus operandi wasted on an uninteresting character, with no thematic, symbolic, meaningful or otherwise connection to his surgeon gimmick, other than a man who deeply hates Bruce Wayne for the absolute pettiest of reasons. In essence, the opposite of a magnificent bastard.

And please don't use the ad hominem argument. Attacking the people and not the argument doesn't prove you right, it just underlines the flaws in your own argument.

[Bat-Mite]

Oh for ****s sake we've been over this before. Bane has a brilliant and he is far more compelling than breaking Batman's back. He's even outmaneuvred Ras once, and from what i hear he is freaking awesome in the Secret Six book. So why dont you read more about him before passing judgement?

I dont like the character either, but i can see why others might.The question is, was his outmaneuvering Ra's well written, or was it more of the same "Bane is so awesome, he can do anything" stuff from Knightfall? Busting the inmates out of Arkham, finding out Batman's identity, and breaking his back are all impressive feats separately. One villain managing to do all three should be extremely impressive, but the way it was pulled off in Knightfall just made me roll my eyes. It seems like they wanted to reproduce the success of the "Death of Superman" comics, so they quickly threw something together for Batman.

The first time I read about Bane, I was actually expecting him to be quite epic, but his paper thin motivation to go after Batman in the first place was what initially turned me off about him, and things just got worse from there. I remember being particularly annoyed at one part in No Man's Land where he ran around repeating, "I am the king!" ad nauseam as if he were a broken record. Sometimes characters just don't click with certain people, like how some people can't stand Robin or Penguin. I might not agree with them, but they're entitled to their opinion. Having said that, though, I will look into the Secret Six series if I come across it, as well as the two comics CrimsonDeath mentioned, just in the off chance they might change my mind. :oldrazz:

And now I'll stop b****ing about him so as to not derail the thread further. :o

[Mr. Earle]

The problem he what he does, his motivation, his mindset, his philosophy are totally removed from Aristotle. You said it yourself above, he could've been quoting Machiavelli, or Nietzsche, or even the Bible, since everything he says is just cut-and-pasted random quotations that don't even support what he is saying if one was to know the context. By his example, any text is fair game, I could quote pieces of the Shawshank Redemption to "show" that hope is meaningless and wasteful, but it is still totally removed from the text's meaning. Just like Hush is, the elitism you speak of could provide for an amusing deconstruction of so-called "deep" vilain that really aren't. But Hush isn't a parody, or a satire, or clever take-that, he's a character who constantly quotes a philosopher for no decent reason other than his mother taught him to.If i am not mistaken, the quotes he uses each time fit the situation. He uses Aristotle because he was a great philosopher, so Hush uses his teachings in his life. I doubt Aristotle would condone his actions, but that only goes to show that Hush is a misguided fool.

The problem is that almost all of Batman's rogues gallery have thematic and symbolic identities and costumes. The Riddler is an enigma, The Joker thinks of the world as one cruel joke, Two-Face is a man of split-personalities and dual nature, Ra's Al Ghul is translated as The Demon's Head, underlying his mysticism and deeds. Hush holds no greater meaning, no reveal, and while it could, even under Dini, he's still a mish-mash of attributes that make less than a whole.I still find his costume badass and the name "hush" created an air of mystery in Loeb's story where he was first introduced.

But he's not a magnificent bastard, he's the furthest from it. His plot in Heart of Hush while compelling was doomed to failure from the start, based entirely on the presumption that he could take down the entire Batfamily and escape the detection of the JLA and wider DC universe, which would not happen.Oh for god's sake its comics. Suspend your disbelief a bit will ya? If every time a villain tries to take over Gotham you scream "but the JL will stop him" we wouldnt have any stories. Bane wouldnt have reigned over Gotham, Hurt's virus would have been dealt with instantly, etc.

Besides, he's not the first one to try, but you dont have a beef with Strange do you?
His fortune and class certainly provide potential, but the potential has not been taken much advantage of, He's only been in like... 3-4 stories so far. Give it time.
His surgical skills are atleast used under Dini, but ultimately are just an interesting modus operandi wasted on an uninteresting character,I find all these flashbacks about Bruce and the Waynes very interesting and its nice to see that Bruce had a few friends like Tommy and Zatana before his parents murder.
with no thematic, symbolic, meaningful or otherwise connection to his surgeon gimmick,He's a doctor, its what he does. Is there something symbolic about being a huge croc, a huge bat, or a dude in a firefly costume? other than a man who deeply hates Bruce Wayne for the absolute pettiest of reasons.Loeb did a **** job with his origin and Dini has been trying to fix it ever since. He cant fix it completely without retconning but he definitely fleshed out the character. Tommy had a predisposition of becoming evil, and with his parents being sons of *****es and abusing him for years, he focused his hate on Bruce, who his parents admired and always compared him to. The dude finished medical school and that still wasnt enough. I can understand him. There are definite comparisons with Bruce and the life he's had.

That's the symbolism you're looking for, not in his costume, and barely in his name.

[Mr. Earle]

The question is, was his outmaneuvering Ra's well written, or was it more of the same "Bane is so awesome, he can do anything" stuff from Knightfall? Busting the inmates out of Arkham, finding out Batman's identity, and breaking his back are all impressive feats separately. One villain managing to do all three should be extremely impressive, but the way it was pulled off in Knightfall just made me roll my eyes. It seems like they wanted to reproduce the success of the "Death of Superman" comics, so they quickly threw something together for Batman.
He was kinda hax in Knightfall, and "tiring Batman and beating him when he's exhausted" isnt such a genius plan, but hey nobody else thought of it and it worked.

The Ras part was well writen. Look, all i'm saying that Bane has a lot of qualities that make him a good character. I personally hate luchadors so i kinda hate him too.

The first time I read about Bane, I was actually expecting him to be quite epic, but his paper thin motivation to go after Batman in the first place was what initially turned me off about him, and things just got worse from there. I remember being particularly annoyed at one part in No Man's Land where he ran around repeating, "I am the king!" ad nauseam as if he were a broken record. Sometimes characters just don't click with certain people, like how some people can't stand Robin or Penguin. I might not agree with them, but they're entitled to their opinion.I agree. Having said that, though, I will look into the Secret Six series if I come across it, as well as the two comics CrimsonDeath mentioned, just in the off chance they might change my mind. :oldrazz:I want to pick it up too, but i wont do it for Bane (seriously **** Bane :funny:), but because the book is supposedly great. Just look at this, he is riding a ****ing T-Rex!!!

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7090/1288778618633.jpg

[The Guard]

Personally, I feel KNIGHTFALL was a tad less gimmicky than THE DEATH AND RETURN OF SUPERMAN. I do think both sagas had their strong and weak points.

The KGBeast was fantastic early on. Then Bane came along and he was all but forgotten.

Bane has absolutely been well written in the past. I really enjoyed VENGEANCE OF BANE and his time in LEGACY. Come NO MAN'S LAND, he started to suck. Anyone who doesn't like Bane is a racist. There, I said it.

When people say Dini writes a great HUSH, are we talking about HEART OF HUSH? Because I've read that. It was ok. Is there anything after that featuring him?

I'm fairly certain I would have called Hush revealed to be called "The Surgeon" or "The Anti-Bruciter" something, and everything he did would have been "surgery" in one form or another. "Hush" is just too damn vague, and for a man with clear motives, kind of makes no sense.

It just feels like writers are trying to make HUSH be everything, like he MUST be in the top 5 villains or something.

He's only been in like... 3-4 stories so far. Give it time.

He's been in some pretty sweeping storylines though. After he appeared, writers spent, what, a year on the whole "Hush tries to take over the villain racket" storyline. Then they did the same damn thing with Black Mask. Six times.

Bah.

I don't understand why Loeb just created a villain who hated Bruce. It's just not much of a motivation to go off of, and quickly becomes tiresome.

He's a doctor, its what he does. Is there something symbolic about being a huge croc, a huge bat, or a dude in a firefly costume?

When you are a man named "Killer Croc", a man called "Batman", and a villain called "Firefly"...yes. Yes there is.

All these characters would fit in this Nolan world fine, but Bane and Hush depend so much on an already established Batman world, and we know the Nolan Dark Knight is barely going to rise. Hush is too personal a villian, and this Batman has not even started his "family." Bane would work better in the Nolan world, but Batman right now has very little to lose after his battle with the Joker. To do these villains justice onscreen a more mature(established?, seasoned?) Nolan Batman would be ideal.

Exactly.

[Hardknox]

It just feels like writers are trying to make HUSH be everything, like he MUST be in the top 5 villains or something.



I agree, ugh. Hush. I've read "Hush" and "Heart Of Hush" but he's just not sold on me. I wonder why none of Batman's villains just turned to this guy and said "Stuff this guy." BANG! He's DEAD! haha I'm sure The Joker would have done this from the start, he's always "No one kills Batman but me".

I personally don't think Hush could hold a film together in the current films' storyline. You'd probably have to delve back into the past again, which has already been handled brilliantly in Begins.

As above posters said, he would only work after so many years.

...and I'd rather call him Tape-Face, at least he sounds a bit more interesting! haha

[Mr. Earle]

I wonder why none of Batman's villains just turned to _____ and said "Stuff this guy." BANG! He's DEAD!

Place any name there and its the same thing.

[The Guard]

Tape-Face. Heh.

I think the other issue I have is that Hush is also kind of evil male Rachel. :)

And yet I don't hate the character and want to see a decent version of him...

[MechaOrga]

i wont put it past Nolan to combine characters to better fit his story...

combine Bane with HUSH or Black mask with hush, or dead shot with HUSH...

may make things easier...taking the backstory from one character and applying it to the visual aesthetics of another...

[RustyCage]

Tape-Face. Heh.

:funny:

And yet I don't hate the character and want to see a decent version of him...

Enter: Chris Nolan?

[Hardknox]

I wonder why none of Batman's villains just turned to _____ and said "Stuff this guy." BANG! He's DEAD!

Place any name there and its the same thing.

haha agreed.


Tape-Face. Heh.

I think the other issue I have is that Hush is also kind of evil male Rachel.

And yet I don't hate the character and want to see a decent version of him...

I've also thought it'd be strange and funny at the same time if Rachel just shows up all bandaged up, Bruce: "RACHEL!!!" Rachel: "Bruce, HUSH!" Shoots at him with two handguns haha

But seriously, if it is Hush, I'm sure Nolan will do something impressive with him. In a way, the films often do the characters a favour for me. Ra's Al Ghul, never really LIKED that guy a hell of a lot until he was portrayed by Liam Neeson. And I didn't think Two-Face could have gotten any cooler until I saw Aaron Eckhart screaming at the top of his lungs ("You can't give in!" effin chills haha). So who knows.

[Asteroid-Man]

They should just work his origin into Black Mask...