The Presidential Debates

[The Chris]

Yeah Obama is stuttering more, but I have a problem with McCain's eye contact. Can't you look at your competition while he's speaking a little more?

[rdh007]

all most people will see is that McCain spoke clearly and with confidence (regardless of what he said) and Obama stuttered like a 14 yo speaking in front of class....

Agreed.

[redfirebird2008]

I can understand complaining about McCain and Iran, but seriously, McCain is right about Russia. Just like our aggression is not tolerable in the Middle East, Russian aggression is just as unacceptable in their neighboring countries that want to develop a pro-Western policy. McCain is right, Putin is nothing more than a KGB thug.

Do you know the full story on the Georgia/Russia issue? It's nowhere near the black and white picture McCain keeps painting.

[Knives]

mcCain's biggest problem is clearly his temper. He gets frustrated all to hell whenever Obama makes a point. That balances out with Obama and his stuttering

[hippie_hunter]

?...so......is it really that negative..

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all most people will see is that McCain spoke clearly and with confidence (regardless of what he said) and Obama stuttered like a 14 yo speaking in front of class....

It's all about appearance and McCain's appearance is better with the way he's presenting his ideas and as BL is saying, Obama is stuttering like a 14 year old.

[kainedamo]

all most people will see is that McCain spoke clearly and with confidence (regardless of what he said) and Obama stuttered like a 14 yo speaking in front of class....

But he doesn't stutter out of embarrisment, or because he doesn't know what he's saying.

On the contrary the actual words are good. He knows the issues well.

But its disappointing that he just can't get the words out clearly sometimes.

[Gilpesh]

I can understand complaining about McCain and Iran, but seriously, McCain is right about Russia. Just like our aggression is not tolerable in the Middle East, Russian aggression is just as unacceptable in their neighboring countries that want to develop a pro-Western policy. McCain is right, Putin is nothing more than a KGB thug.

Not really. There are more shades of gray in that conflict than "RUSSIA BAD RUSSIA BAD RUSSIA BAD!" but of course that doesn't clear Russia and make them innocents, but Georgia isn't completely innocent either.

[redfirebird2008]

Damn right it is....people expect the President to speak clearly, succinctly, with no hesitation....Obama is not doing that tonight

McCain isn't even talking about the damn issues. Obama actually is. And McCain won't even look his opponent in the eye. Didn't even look him in the eye when they shook hands. That's not Presidential behavior at all.

[danoyse]

And the fact-checkers are already at it:

Attacking Pakistan: True or False?
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:01 PM by Carrie Dann

From NBC's Mark Murray
McCain slammed Obama for threatening to "announce military strikes" on Pakistan.

"I'm not prepared to threaten it as Senator Obama apparently wants to do, as he has said that he would announce military strikes into Pakistan."

"Now, you don't do that," he added. "You don't say that out loud."

Is that what Obama really said in August 2007?

Not exactly. Then, Obama said: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

So Obama said that he'd go after Al Qaeda targets within Pakistan's borders, not attack the nation itself. That's a move that the Bush administration actually approved this summer on at least one occasion -- to much objection by the Pakistani government.

[rdh007]

Obama isn't tying McCain to Bush enough and he's not getting across the "change" thing enough, either.

[Movies205]

Do you know the full story on the Georgia/Russia issue? It's nowhere near the black and white picture McCain keeps painting.

Exactly...

I am not a huge fan of either but I find Obama to be more engaging in this debate, he seems to respond to questions while McCain is just listing out campaign slogans.

[Knives]

But he doesn't stutter out of embarrisment, or because he doesn't know what he's saying.

On the contrary the actual words are good. He knows the issues well.

But its disappointing that he just can't get the words out clearly sometimes.

Thats why he isn't a good debater. He knows the issues, he just can stick them into soundbites. But the fact that he is holding his own tonight and getting some good shots on mcCain, and even getting McCain to damn near flip his lid is a plus.

[BlackLantern]

I'm still trying to figure how Putin went from being President of Russia to being Prime Minister of Russia in like a week.....

[rdh007]

I'm still trying to figure how Putin went from being President of Russia to being Prime Minister of Russia in like a week.....

Because Putin willed it, it must be so.

[Movies205]

Obama isn't tying McCain to Bush enough and he's not getting across the "change" thing enough, either.

Because its a stupid argument. Obama voted 97% with the Democratic leadership and has father time himself as his running-mate. McCain has proven he is different than Bush. Obama has been attacking the issues instead of mudslinging which is far better than those tragically poor arguments.

[Knives]

Exactly...

I am not a huge fan of either but I find Obama to be more engaging in this debate, he seems to respond to questions while McCain is just listing out campaign slogans.


Exactly correct. McCain is not on the side of the issues as much as Obama is. So it's going to be interesting to see how this debate is going to be discussed by pundits when its over.

[Arc-Light]

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It's all about appearance and McCain's appearance is better with the way he's presenting his ideas and as BL is saying, Obama is stuttering like a 14 year old.

So it is all about looks, presenting, rather than the words that they say..........wow. If you think that is stuttering ppl need to look it up and see what real stuttering is.

[Honey Vibe]

McCain just said the war in Iraq has made us more safe. I can't believe Obama did not leap on that opportunity to show mismanagement of this war.

[redfirebird2008]

Thats why he isn't a good debater. He knows the issues, he just can stick them into soundbites. But the fact that he is holding his own tonight and getting some good shots on mcCain, and even getting McCain to damn near flip his lid is a plus.

This is supposedly McCain's home turf. He's going to get his ass hammered when there is a full debate on the economy. This BS, "trickle down," de-regulated economic policy doesn't work. Too bad for McCain he fully supports it at a time when it's screwing over the people and they are feeling the effects of it. He got his ass kicked during the economic part of this debate, and Obama has held his own during the foreign policy portion of this at least partially due to McCain's own hot-headedness.

[danoyse]

Looks like Obama was right about Kissinger, too. Katie Couric also confirmed this after the Palin interview this week:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/20/se.01.html

KISSINGER: Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic...

(CROSSTALK)

SESNO: Put at a very high level right out of the box?

KISSINGER: Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to.

Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about?

But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government.

[hippie_hunter]

Do you know the full story on the Georgia/Russia issue? It's nowhere near the black and white picture McCain keeps painting.

Yes I do. I tend to look up on Russia a lot for fun and the way it turns out, Russia's aggression against Georgia is as just as our aggression in Iraq.

The death of peacekeepers is not a valid excuse to invade a nation. South Ossetian rebels provoked the Georgian government to the point of trying to take back their own territory. Russian reports of Georgia committing war crimes are so greatly exaggerated. And Russia went way too far in their attack against Georgia. They violated Georgia's territorial sovereignty and rights as a nation in the international community.

[Knives]

This is supposedly McCain's home turf. He's going to get his ass hammered when there is a full debate on the economy. This BS, "trickle down," de-regulated economic policy doesn't work. Too bad for McCain he fully supports it at a time when it's screwing over the people and they are feeling the effects of it. He got his ass kicked during the economic part of this debate, and Obama has held his own during the foreign policy portion of this at least partially due to McCain's own hot-headedness.

Excellent point. The fact that Obama held his own perfectly, and got some damn good points out, does not bode wel for McCain. But we'll see how it pans out.

[rdh007]

Because its a stupid argument. Obama voted 97% with the Democratic leadership and has father time himself as his running-mate. McCain has proven he is different than Bush. Obama has been attacking the issues instead of mudslinging which is far better than those tragically poor arguments.

Voters don't care about issues. Bush winning in 2000 and 2004 proved that. People don't like Bush, McCain has agreed with Bush, Obama's got to tie them together in peoples' minds. McCain has only proven he's different from Bush by acknowledging that global warming exists (welcome to 1999, John) and his efforts to stem it I still haven't seen.

[hippie_hunter]

So it is all about looks, presenting, rather than the words that they say..........wow. If you think that is stuttering ppl need to look it up and see what real stuttering is.

Frankly this election has proven that in terms of the general public, not the political junkies, appearance is everything.

[Knives]

Looks like Obama was right about Kissinger, too. Katie Couric also confirmed this after the Palin interview this week:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/20/se.01.html

Of course he was. I knew when McCain denied it so vehemently it would come back to bite him. Got all frustrated for nothing.

[redfirebird2008]

Hippie, the issue is that South Ossetians pretty much consider themselves Russian. The fact that the border of Georgia was drawn by politicians to cover their territory probably does not go over very well with them. Russia supports them because they view them as being part of their country. So in that sense, it is NOT as bad as the U.S. attacking Iraq, a country that is on the other side of the world, oceans apart from our country and culturally 360 degrees different from us.

[Movies205]

Exactly correct. McCain is not on the side of the issues as much as Obama is. So it's going to be interesting to see how this debate is going to be discussed by pundits when its over.

Pundits are useless. Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman is going say Obama was amazing. Fox News will say Obama was stupid, blah blah. I hope people look at something very important there was all of two arguments tonight "Economic Policy" and "Foreign Policy"

First off McCain doesn't have an ecnomic policy, this was made blatantly apparent by his need to bring up ear-mark spending. Which is hilarious since he does not point out the fact that getting rid of ear-mark spending will not lower the budget, all ear-marks do is approriate money to go to specific places. For example if EPA is getting a billion dollars and ear mark mgiht say a million must be spent on seal preservation.

Secondly is foreign policy which I found to be far weaker since both seem to be trying to find some disagreement to differentiate themselves from each other. Because who doesn't agree Afghanistan needs more troops or that we need to get out of Iraq?

[rdh007]

So it is all about looks, presenting, rather than the words that they say..........wow. If you think that is stuttering ppl need to look it up and see what real stuttering is.

No, he's right. Bush got elected twice because people wanted to have a beer with him more than Gore or Kerry.

[danoyse]

Yes I do. I tend to look up on Russia a lot for fun and the way it turns out, Russia's aggression against Georgia is as just as our aggression in Iraq.

The death of peacekeepers is not a valid excuse to invade a nation. South Ossetian rebels provoked the Georgian government to the point of trying to take back their own territory. Russian reports of Georgia committing war crimes are so greatly exaggerated. And Russia went way too far in their attack against Georgia. They violated Georgia's territorial sovereignty and rights as a nation in the international community.

Yep. And during Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson, she claimed the invasion of Georgia was "unprovoked." Let's not forget that.

[Knives]

Frankly this election has proven that in terms of the general public, not the political junkies, appearance is everything.

Then Bush would never have won in 2004. He was god aweful and Kerry stormed all over him. Perception is only half of it. I feel that this year though, issues will take the frotn and center. Obama stutters, but he gets the point out. That will balance it I think.

[redfirebird2008]

McCain is outright lying about veterans right now. His voting record does NOT support his claims that he'll take care of the veterans.

[Wolfwood]

Appearance has been important ever since the first televised debate.

[BlackLantern]

So it is all about looks, presenting, rather than the words that they say..........wow. If you think that is stuttering ppl need to look it up and see what real stuttering is.

Perception is reality...especially in politics...

[rdh007]

Then Bush would never have won in 2004. He was god aweful and Kerry stormed all over him. Perception is only half of it. I feel that this year though, issues will take the frotn and center. Obama stutters, but he gets the point out. That will balance it I think.

Bush was awful in the first debate, but after the "bump" on his back appeared, all was righted. He and Kerry were pretty even in the second debate.

[rdh007]

Appearance has been important ever since the first televised debate.

Kennedy's makeup FTW!

[Movies205]

Voters don't care about issues. Bush winning in 2000 and 2004 proved that. People don't like Bush, McCain has agreed with Bush, Obama's got to tie them together in peoples' minds. McCain has only proven he's different from Bush by acknowledging that global warming exists (welcome to 1999, John) and his efforts to stem it I still haven't seen.

You might be right but this debate because he stayed away from such terrible arguments has allowed me to think about voting for Obama over McCain because its an awful argument. Since it doesn't account for the fact that there so much legislation that of course the majority of what McCain votes for is going be with what the Republican base is voting for, however 10% of the time he voted against which is big. So I think its a dumb argument.

[Gilpesh]

VIETNAM, I WAS A POW! :whatever:

[Knives]

Bush was awful in the first debate, but after the "bump" on his back appeared, all was righted. He and Kerry were pretty even in the second debate.

No he looked too erratic in that debate. He was only given a pass on it becuase he wasnt a complete slump like he was in the first one. Obama may be stuttering, but McCain's frustration shows all over him and thats far worse then stuttering a good point.

[danoyse]

This is supposedly McCain's home turf. He's going to get his ass hammered when there is a full debate on the economy. This BS, "trickle down," de-regulated economic policy doesn't work. Too bad for McCain he fully supports it at a time when it's screwing over the people and they are feeling the effects of it. He got his ass kicked during the economic part of this debate, and Obama has held his own during the foreign policy portion of this at least partially due to McCain's own hot-headedness.

I remember reading in the NY Times story about the debates that Obama's camp wanted the full debate on the economy to be the last debate and have the foreign policy go first. They know it's McCain's strong point, and the economy is his weakest--so that one will be closest to the election.

[hippie_hunter]

Hippie, the issue is that South Ossetians pretty much consider themselves Russian. The fact that the border of Georgia was drawn by politicians to cover their territory probably does not go over very well with them. Russia supports them because they view them as being part of their country. So in that sense, it is NOT as bad as the U.S. attacking Iraq, a country that is on the other side of the world, oceans apart from our country and culturally 360 degrees different from us.
I know about the South Ossetian conflict. I know how they feel about Georgia. I knew that before Russia even invaded.

But facts are the facts, South Ossetia is Georgian territory and Georgia has the right to exert its authority over it just like the United States does with Puerto Rico and Russia does over Chechnya. Russia does not have the right to invade Georgia on incredibly flimsy excuses, just like our flimsy excuses did not give us the right to invade Iraq.

[redfirebird2008]

Pundits are useless. Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman is going say Obama was amazing. Fox News will say Obama was stupid, blah blah. I hope people look at something very important there was all of two arguments tonight "Economic Policy" and "Foreign Policy"

First off McCain doesn't have an ecnomic policy, this was made blatantly apparent by his need to bring up ear-mark spending. Which is hilarious since he does not point out the fact that getting rid of ear-mark spending will not lower the budget, all ear-marks do is approriate money to go to specific places. For example if EPA is getting a billion dollars and ear mark mgiht say a million must be spent on seal preservation.

Secondly is foreign policy which I found to be far weaker since both seem to be trying to find some disagreement to differentiate themselves from each other. Because who doesn't agree Afghanistan needs more troops or that we need to get out of Iraq?

The biggest bunch of wasteful spending right now is in Iraq. $10 billion per month. McCain wants to INCREASE that even as the Bush administration admits that we need to start getting timetables. We've got trillions in debt here while the Iraqis have an $80 billion surplus. But yeah, let's keep dumping $10+ billion per month into that dead end.

[Arc-Light]

No, he's right. Bush got elected twice because people wanted to have a beer with him more than Gore or Kerry.

:cmad:.....sigh..i know i know....

[Gilpesh]

Why can't McCain look in Obama's eyes?

[Movies205]

The biggest bunch of wasteful spending right now is in Iraq. $10 billion per month. McCain wants to INCREASE that even as the Bush administration admits that we need to start getting timetables. We've got trillions in debt here while the Iraquis have an $80 billion surplus. But yeah, let's keep dumping $10+ billion per month into that dead end.

:( Too true, McCain sounded like a child when he was talking about pork-barreling spending. Obama biggest owning of mccain in my opinon was saying 19 billion vs. hundreds of billions.

However I can't wait to see the Vice Presidential debate because Sarah Palin going get WRECKED! :woot:

[Knives]

Well neither man knocked it out of the park. Obama owned the issues, stuttered, mcCain puked out various talking points, got frustrated on more then one occasion. I think it's a draw. A draw will ultimately benefit Obama since this is not the game changer McCain needed, especially after this god awful week.

[danoyse]

Why can't McCain look in Obama's eyes?

They're talking about that on PBS now, as well as the constant "Senator Obama doesn't understand" openings.

[BlackLantern]

Why can't McCain look in Obama's eyes?

The tall, black man scares McCain...he's afraid Obama is going to take his wallet...

[rdh007]

You might be right but this debate because he stayed away from such terrible arguments has allowed me to think about voting for Obama over McCain because its an awful argument. Since it doesn't account for the fact that there so much legislation that of course the majority of what McCain votes for is going be with what the Republican base is voting for, however 10% of the time he voted against which is big. So I think its a dumb argument.

Yeah, but you seem reasonably intelligent. Most voters don't care about issues, and they sure as heck don't want to look into these guy's voting histories too much. If they hear Bush and McCain agree 90% of the time, that works to Obama's favor.

[redfirebird2008]

:( Too true, McCain sounded like a child when he was talking about pork-barreling spending. Obama biggest owning of mccain in my opinon was saying 19 billion vs. hundreds of billions.

However I can't wait to see the Vice Presidential debate because Sarah Palin going get WRECKED! :woot:

Palin's interview with Couric the other day made GWB look like the best interviewer/speaker EVER. Pathetic. She even had index cards and STILL kept tripping over her words and not even putting together coherent ideas.

[Gilpesh]

They're talking about that on PBS now, as well as the constant "Senator Obama doesn't understand" openings.

The tall, black man scares McCain...he's afraid Obama is going to take his wallet...

I definitely noticed it when they shook hands at the end. Obama looked at McCain... McCain looked for the cameras.

[Nirvana]

The tall, black man scares McCain...he's afraid Obama is going to take his wallet...

lawl

Well, that debate was interesting...

[Knives]

Why can't McCain look in Obama's eyes?

For all Obama's stuttering, McCain's body language was horrendous. He refused eye contact, looked grumpy, and was simply dismissive of him. Fail. Another thing is Obama let McCain slide too many times on his b.s. talking points. He REALLY needs to be harder next time.

[Arc-Light]

Huh...i had no idea McCain was a POW.....huh.

[kane9321]

mmmm campbell brown..mmmmmm

[BMM]

Why can't McCain look in Obama's eyes?

I don't know. His lack of eye contact is annoying. I also don't like that McCain looks like he's about to blow a gasket.

[Poetic Chaos]

McCain came off as a total douche laughing at everything.

[Knives]

McCain came off as a total douche laughing at everything.

His dismissive, grumpy attitude is going to cost him on the style points.

[redfirebird2008]

They're talking about that on PBS now, as well as the constant "Senator Obama doesn't understand" openings.

Yeah, both of those were pathetic. He didn't even look him in the eye during the handshake. Obama gave a warm smile to him, looked directly at him and asked him how he was doing, but McCain was busy looking at the crowd/moderator.

[The Chris]

McCain came off as a total douche laughing at everything.

So true. Kept thinking please stop that you look like an jerk

[rdh007]

He's got to remind us that he's a sage, wise man and that Obama is a noob. I get the "SODU" openings.

[BlackLantern]

...but that's how Republicans view their opposition....by having a dismissive attitude...their view is what's right and anyone else isn't worth respect or consideration...

[Knives]

He's got to remind us that he's a sage, wise man and that Obama is a noob. I get the "SODU" openings.

That would work if Obama was a dunce. the fact that Obama could always respond to him ended up making McCain look like McGrump.

[rdh007]

...but that's how Republicans view their opposition....by having a dismissive attitude...their view is what's right and anyone else isn't worth respect or consideration...

My wife has often said that I'm intolerant of intolerance, so am I a Republican with Democratic beliefs?

[Visionary]

No, he's right. Bush got elected twice because people wanted to have a beer with him more than Gore or Kerry.So basically what you're saying is...Americans are freakin' idiots. We elect our presidents based on whether we'd like to have a beer with them or not. And we wonder why the terrorists are winning (and they are, because we're more scared of them than they of us) and for that, we have a President with the brain of a 4-year-old child in the White House. Yeah America, home of the idiots. :dry:

[redfirebird2008]

...but that's how Republicans view their opposition....by having a dismissive attitude...their view is what's right and anyone else isn't worth respect or consideration...

And that's precisely why they are driving this country straight into the ground right now.

[Gilpesh]

...but that's how Republicans view their opposition....by having a dismissive attitude...their view is what's right and anyone else isn't worth respect or consideration...

I'm tired of dismissive leaders...

[danoyse]

It's funny, the pundits on PBS right now are pretty much in agreement that they both acted professionally...and seem disappointed by that.

[rdh007]

That would work if Obama was a dunce. the fact that Obama could always respond to him ended up making McCain look like McGrump.

It's only got to work if Obama is younger and newer, which he is.

This debate was mostly on McCain's home turf. When they move to domestic policy in the last one, I suspect that Obama will be in better command.

[Movies205]

Yeah, but you seem reasonably intelligent. Most voters don't care about issues, and they sure as heck don't want to look into these guy's voting histories too much. If they hear Bush and McCain agree 90% of the time, that works to Obama's favor.

Very True... Which is sad :(

[BlackLantern]

it's also why the Republicans stand a better chance of having a record turnout....to "put the colored boy" in his place....

[rdh007]

It's funny, the pundits on PBS right now are pretty much in agreement that they both acted professionally...and seem disappointed by that.

...and PBS are supposed to be the grown-ups.

[redfirebird2008]

Obama should have nailed McCain for his lies about wanting to take care of veterans (while voting against bills to HELP them).

[Gilpesh]

it's also why the Republicans stand a better chance of having a record turnout....to "put the colored boy" in his place....

Yeah... :csad:

[Knives]

It's only got to work if Obama is younger and newer, which he is.

This debate was mostly on McCain's home turf. When they move to domestic policy in the last one, I suspect that Obama will be in better command.

I agree with you. McCain did himself good by not completely FLOPPING out this debate, which would have lost him this election. Obama did what he needed to do by NOT letting McCain walk all over him and make him look like a useless noob. So i'd say its a draw. Both did what each needed to do. Each campaign will now declare victory. I'd give a RIDICULOUSLY slight edge to McCain simply for being able to stand up to McCain on his area of expertise. The problem is McCain is useless with the economy, and I think it is a big disadvantage for him to have THAT debate set for last. Also, a TIE in the end does not give McCain the bump in the polls he needs.

[danoyse]

MSNBC is reporting that McCain's campaign is releasing a new that's a montage of the times Obama said "John is right...".

They pointed out that it's tagged with a "I'm John McCain and I approved this message," which can't be true since he wasn't there when they put the ad together.

[Carcharodon]

McCain came off as very strong...perhaps too much so. What struck me during this debate is the number of times Obama would call McCain on his ********, however, and none of the pundits have been talking about that. They're more focused on McCain's posturing and Obama's lack of teeth than the fact that Obama had something factual for virtually every question that McCain answered with ********.

[danoyse]

It's only got to work if Obama is younger and newer, which he is.

This debate was mostly on McCain's home turf. When they move to domestic policy in the last one, I suspect that Obama will be in better command.

I have PBS on, they are praising Obama for being up to the challenge of the debate. They think he could have jumped on McCain on the issue more than he did (I agree).

[Carcharodon]

MSNBC is reporting that McCain's campaign is releasing a new that's a montage of the times Obama said "John is right...". I think they were half-kidding. We may see such an ad, but it was speculation on their part to highlight the fact that Obama kept saying that.

I don't think there was anything wrong with it. It's okay for the two to agree on stuff. Obama may have "agreed" a bit too much, but it's certainly better than McCain not acknowledging agreement at all. I felt as though Obama was far more professional in this debate, but that might just be me.

[Arc-Light]

I kinda knew the Presidential debates was going to be like this, the real show will be the VP debates.......oh i cant wait.

[The Senator]

It is very difficult for me to determine who was the winner, based on the answers each candidate gave. However, when I saw McCain smirking, laughing, and engaging in name calling, his arrogance spoke louder than any answers either of the two candidates gave. At first, I wanted to say that this was a draw, that neither candidate had a clear advantage. But I have a feeling-- and it may be wrong-- that the majority of those who viewed this debate will reject the way McCain presented himself, not necessarily on the issues, but in general. Never mind some of his befuddled answers, or some of his old man-eurisms. But calling Obama "naive" and constantly going on the attack will not play well with most voters.

What I am more interested to see is the debate next week between Biden and Palin, because something tells me that Palin will not be able to hold her own and provide adequate, thought out answers to some of the issues which were raised tonight, assuming they are raised next week.

[Hole Shot]

That was the weirdest debate ever. Here, I summarized the whole thing:

"Well I agree with the Senator, but I said it like this and he said like that"

[redfirebird2008]

I think they were half-kidding. We may see such an ad, but it was speculation on their part to highlight the fact that Obama kept saying that.

I don't think there was anything wrong with it. It's okay for the two to agree on stuff. Obama may have "agreed" a bit too much, but it's certainly better than McCain not acknowledging agreement at all. I felt as though Obama was far more professional in this debate, but that might just be me.

Oh I think the professionalism of the candidates was shown during the handshake. Obama offered a smile and tried to say hello in a cordial manner to McCain. What did McCain do? Completely avoid eye contact with Obama. Stared out at the crowd/moderator.

[BlackLantern]

I expect Joe Biden to talk her retarded....

[The Senator]

MSNBC is reporting that McCain's campaign is releasing a new that's a montage of the times Obama said "John is right...".

They pointed out that it's tagged with a "I'm John McCain and I approved this message," which can't be true since he wasn't there when they put the ad together.

Well, that will be another misleading attack ad from the McCain campaign, then, considering Obama agreed with McCain on some issues and followed up his agreements with many, many disagreements.

[danoyse]

I think they were half-kidding. We may see such an ad, but it was speculation on their part to highlight the fact that Obama kept saying that.

I don't think there was anything wrong with it. It's okay for the two to agree on stuff. Obama may have "agreed" a bit too much, but it's certainly better than McCain not acknowledging agreement at all. I felt as though Obama was far more professional in this debate, but that might just be me.

Oh yes, there is an ad:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

[Carcharodon]

I expect Joe Biden to talk her retarded....Too late. :o

[Hole Shot]

It is very difficult for me to determine who was the winner, based on the answers each candidate gave. However, when I saw McCain smirking, laughing, and engaging in name calling, his arrogance spoke louder than any answers either of the two candidates gave.


Honestly jman, I tried to watch objectively as I could and Obama did the same thing. It's a debate tactic whenever they call eachother out.

[Carcharodon]

Oh yes, there is an ad:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspxLOL! Yeah, that isn't slimy at all.

[redfirebird2008]

It is very difficult for me to determine who was the winner, based on the answers each candidate gave. However, when I saw McCain smirking, laughing, and engaging in name calling, his arrogance spoke louder than any answers either of the two candidates gave. At first, I wanted to say that this was a draw, that neither candidate had a clear advantage. But I have a feeling-- and it may be wrong-- that the majority of those who viewed this debate will reject the way McCain presented himself, not necessarily on the issues, but in general. Never mind some of his befuddled answers, or some of his old man-eurisms. But calling Obama "naive" and constantly going on the attack will not play well with most voters.

What I am more interested to see is the debate next week between Biden and Palin, because something tells me that Palin will not be able to hold her own and provide adequate, thought out answers to some of the issues which were raised tonight, assuming they are raised next week.

If that Katie Couric interview is any indication, it will be a total disaster. She had index cards yet she completely froze up several times during that interview, constantly made incoherent points, and rarely put together a solid answer. The only way it's going to go well, I feel, is if her questions are rigged and she knows exactly what is coming so she can memorize her lines.

[danoyse]

If that Katie Couric interview is any indication, it will be a total disaster. She had index cards yet she completely froze up several times during that interview, constantly made incoherent points, and rarely put together a solid answer. The only way it's going to go well, I feel, is if her questions are rigged and she knows exactly what is coming so she can memorize her lines.

I suspect they're going to coach her plenty of zingers so she can try and repeat what she did at the RNC speech. They know she can't handle actually information, so go for the sound bites.

[Marx]

In being as objective as I can, I do not think that this debate was a 'game changer' for either candidate. That said, I believe that John McCain had more to lose in this first debate (considering his actions within the past two week.) In my opinion, McCain came off as disrespectful, angry, and sometimes even bitter. He only looked at Barack Obama twice the whole time, and those times came at the beginning and end of the debate when they greeted one another. McCain laughed, smirked, and even scoffed at Obama. Barack Obama, on the other hand, did seem presidential. He was very calm and collected. Not one time did he appear as arrogante as John McCain.

So overall, I don't think this was a 'game changer'. I do believe that the edge goes to Obama based on the overall presentation of the two. (Which in my opinion, is what the larger majority of people base their opinions on.)

[Hole Shot]

Biden v Palin should be better than an SNL skit because Biden is a gaffe machine and Palin is uh... well... Palin.

[Armand Z Trip]

That was the weirdest debate ever. Here, I summarized the whole thing:

"Well I agree with the Senator, but I said it like this and he said like that"

I thought that also. I thought Obama should of said, well I agree with the Senator on Russia, I guess that makes me naive.

[Carcharodon]

Biden v Palin should be better than an SNL skit because Biden is a gaffe machine and Palin is uh... well... Palin.I hope he kicks her in the vagina. "Gaffe this, Palin!"

[The Senator]

Honestly jman, I tried to watch objectively as I could and Obama did the same thing. It's a debate tactic whenever they call eachother out.

The difference between Obama and McCain were, however, that Obama said "John, you are wrong" or "John and I disagree." He never called McCain naive, or implied his naivete. And he did not do so in an angry, bitter way. McCain came off as bitter, angry and all around disgruntled.

[danoyse]

In being as objective as I can, I do not think that this debate was a 'game changer' for either candidate. That said, I believe that John McCain had more to lose in this first debate (considering his actions within the past two week.) In my opinion, McCain came off as disrespectful, angry, and sometimes even bitter. He only looked at Barack Obama twice the whole time, and those times came at the beginning and end of the debate when they greeted one another. McCain laughed, smirked, and even scoffed at Obama. Barack Obama, on the other hand, did seem presidential. He was very calm and collected. Not one time did he appear as arrogante as John McCain.

So overall, I don't think this was a 'game changer'. I do believe that the edge goes to Obama based on the overall presentation of the two. (Which in my opinion, is what the larger majority of people base their opinions on.)

I completely agree. I think McCain's supporters will say he won, and the Obama supporters will say he won. I don't think they did a lot to change anyone's minds here.

[The Senator]

Biden v Palin should be better than an SNL skit because Biden is a gaffe machine and Palin is uh... well... Palin.

But we have seen that Biden, in a debate setting, knows how to debate without sticking his foot in his mouth. Palin, on the other hand, is unable to answer simple questions without acting as if this is the first time she's heard it. Bush Doctrine? Is seeing Russia from Alaska really foreign policy experience? I can only imagine how she will react if asked a question on nuclear proliferation, or Pakistan.

[bored]

McCain was more rhetorical all night than Obama. Now, I love Barack. I think he's going to make one of the best Presidents this country has ever had, if not the best, but he tends to lean a lot on buzzwords in his speeches. None of that tonight. It was all business, and it was all Barack.

[rdh007]

It is very difficult for me to determine who was the winner, based on the answers each candidate gave. However, when I saw McCain smirking, laughing, and engaging in name calling, his arrogance spoke louder than any answers either of the two candidates gave. At first, I wanted to say that this was a draw, that neither candidate had a clear advantage. But I have a feeling-- and it may be wrong-- that the majority of those who viewed this debate will reject the way McCain presented himself, not necessarily on the issues, but in general. Never mind some of his befuddled answers, or some of his old man-eurisms. But calling Obama "naive" and constantly going on the attack will not play well with most voters.

What I am more interested to see is the debate next week between Biden and Palin, because something tells me that Palin will not be able to hold her own and provide adequate, thought out answers to some of the issues which were raised tonight, assuming they are raised next week.
George Will, with whom I so often agree, said that Obama had a slight edge because he looked like he belonged and that was the real question tonight. Though, like you, he (and I) called it more or less a draw.

I wonder if the VP debate will matter in that this one was a draw. I doubt it, but if it matters more to voters, then I say good. Advantage "foot in mouth" over "moose in headlights".

[redfirebird2008]

But we have seen that Biden, in a debate setting, knows how to debate without sticking his foot in his mouth. Palin, on the other hand, is unable to answer simple questions without acting as if this is the first time she's heard it. Bush Doctrine? Is seeing Russia from Alaska really foreign policy experience? I can only imagine how she will react if asked a question on nuclear proliferation, or Pakistan.

Don't ask her about the bailout either. She thinks it's about healthcare. :hehe:

[Hole Shot]

McCain laughed, smirked, and even scoffed at Obama. Barack Obama, on the other hand, did seem presidential. He was very calm and collected. Not one time did he appear as arrogante as John McCain.

You're absolutely right about the eye contact thing. I didn't see many shots from Obama's side towards McCain though. But from what I saw I agree. As far as the laughs, smirks, etc. They were both doing it.

It was close to draw, but I'll give Obama the advantage. He went center-right on his economic policy and didn't appear to be over his head in foreign policy which is what McCain was hoping for. He was clear and confident in his answers and had a response everytime. He shouldn't have said he's more qualified to lead the military, he lured himself into a trap there and he went way off tangent during the Russian debate.

McCain did a good job though of giving specifics and pointing out his resume in relation to the discussion.

But on pure figurehead leader level, I think Obama had the advantage tonight and think he did because he obviously has an advantage in presentation AND he reached out to the right economically.

McCain still had the best line though with the "oh please"

[Carcharodon]

I will say that while McCain didn't knock this out of the park AT ALL, I think it's enough to certainly keep his campaign afloat a while longer.

[redfirebird2008]

You're absolutely right about the eye contact thing. I didn't see many shots from Obama's side towards McCain though. But from what I saw I agree. As far as the laughs, smirks, etc. They were both doing it.

It was close to draw, but I'll give Obama the advantage. He went center-right on his economic policy and didn't appear to be over his head in foreign policy which is what McCain was hoping for. He was clear and confident in his answers and had a response everytime. He shouldn't have said he's more qualified to lead the military, he's lured himself into a trap there and he went way off tangent during the Russian debate.

McCain did a good job though of giving specifics and pointing out his resume in relation to the discussion.

But on pure figurehead leader level, I think Obama had the advantage tonight and think he did because he obviously has an advantage in presentation AND he reached out to the right economically.

McCain still had the best line though with the "oh please"

That was the worst line. It showed his hot-headedness. The best line was "singin' songs about bombing Iran." McCain spent 5 minutes after that trying to change the subject (this was the part when he started blathering about the bracelet) instead of actually defending his position on it. And later on, he AFFIRMED Obama's attack with the "oh please" line. "Diplomacy doesn't work." Yeah, tell that to Kissinger.

[Gilpesh]

"John, I have a bracelet also."

[Hole Shot]

That was the worst line. It showed his hot-headedness.

That's why I liked it.

The best line was "singin' songs about bombing Iran." McCain spent 5 minutes after that trying to change the subject (this was the part when he started blathering about the bracelet) instead of actually defending his position on it.

I don't remember that part, but I had to pound beer everytime I heard "Main stream" "no preconditions" "surge" "foreign oil" "alternative energy" and somethign else.

[Carcharodon]

"John, I have a bracelet also."That was speech bubble.

In Obama's thought-bubble: "A bracelet? I have one too, *******. What now?? Watch me turn this around on you, you smug son of a *****."

[Marx]

You're absolutely right about the eye contact thing. I didn't see many shots from Obama's side towards McCain though. But from what I saw I agree. As far as the laughs, smirks, etc. They were both doing it.

It was close to draw, but I'll give Obama the advantage. He went center-right on his economic policy and didn't appear to be over his head in foreign policy which is what McCain was hoping for. He was clear and confident in his answers and had a response everytime. He shouldn't have said he's more qualified to lead the military, he lured himself into a trap there and he went way off tangent during the Russian debate.

McCain did a good job though of giving specifics and pointing out his resume in relation to the discussion.

But on pure figurehead leader level, I think Obama had the advantage tonight and think he did because he obviously has an advantage in presentation AND he reached out to the right economically.

McCain still had the best line though with the "oh please"

I just think that it as very disrespectful to not acknowledge Obama one time during the debate. Anytime that Obama was speaking, McCain looked down and away or out into the audience. (All the while clinching his jaw.) I don't even think McCain looked into the camera one time, unless I missed it. If McCain had only attempted to pay attention to Obama while he was speaking (by looking at him) I do not think that he would have come off nearly as arrogantly as he did. In all honesty, John McCain seemed like an angry, bitter old man who didn't want to be there.

[Visionary]

Come on now, they didn't curse.

[danoyse]

I just think that it as very disrespectful to not acknowledge Obama one time during the debate. Anytime that Obama was speaking, McCain looked down and away or out into the audience. (All the while clinching his jaw.) I don't even think McCain looked into the camera one time, unless I missed it. If McCain had only attempted to pay attention to Obama while he was speaking (by looking at him) I do not think that he would have come off nearly as arrogantly as he did. In all honesty, John McCain seemed like an angry, bitter old man who didn't want to be there.

The non-eye contact issue is coming up in all the wrap-ups I'm seeing. Everyone noticed.

[Carcharodon]

Come on now, they didn't curse.I'm sure they did in their thought-bubbles.

[Hole Shot]

I just think that it as very disrespectful to not acknowledge Obama one time during the debate. Anytime that Obama was speaking, McCain looked down and away or out into the audience. (All the while clinching his jaw.) I don't even think McCain looked into the camera one time, unless I missed it. If McCain had only attempted to pay attention to Obama while he was speaking (by looking at him) I do not think that he would have come off nearly as arrogantly as he did. In all honesty, John McCain seemed like an angry, bitter old man who didn't want to be there.


I don't disagree with you at all there. Did you ever watch the Republican Primary debates? Whenever Ron Paul gave a response and they'd show McCain in the split screen he'd have this look of disgust on his face.

[Gilpesh]

The non-eye contact issue is coming up in all the wrap-ups I'm seeing. Everyone noticed.

And that brings McCain's age up when he looks like grumpy grandpa... and that brings up his running mate.

[Carcharodon]

The non-eye contact issue is coming up in all the wrap-ups I'm seeing. Everyone noticed.It was really hard NOT to notice, though. McCain seemed to make a point of it. It especially was called to attention when the moderator kept asking them to address each other, and Obama seemed to be the only one willing to do so.

[SuperT]

Obama was absolutely better in tonights debate then McCain. McCain was too rooted in the past failed policies of the current administration, it was absolutely frightening, then the mention of a financial freeze are everything but defense, veteran affairs, and benefits - that was just absolutely insane and frightening to even think that a candidate is even thinking of something like that.

We're all seriously forked if this old geezer wins this election.

[Marx]

I don't disagree with you at all there. Did you ever watch the Republican Primary debates? Whenever Ron Paul gave an response and they'd shown McCain in the split screen he'd have this look of disgust on his face.

Yes I did. And I saw the same mentality that McCain had toward Paul, toward Obama tonight.

[Gilpesh]

Yes I did. And I saw the same mentality that McCain had toward Paul, toward Obama tonight.

He seems to do that when he is completely outclassed. :hehe:

[danoyse]

It was really hard NOT to notice, though. McCain seemed to make a point of it. It especially was called to attention when the moderator kept asking them to address each other, and Obama seemed to be the only one willing to do so.

I'm watching Bill Maher's show right now, and Tim Daly said it was like watching a 6th grade drama teacher trying to bring them together. Everyone seems to agree it was badly moderated.

[Marx]

The non-eye contact issue is coming up in all the wrap-ups I'm seeing. Everyone noticed.

Good! It should be brought up across the board!

[Gilpesh]

I'm watching Bill Maher's show right now, and Tim Daly said it was like watching a 6th grade drama teacher trying to bring them together. Everyone seems to agree it was badly moderated.

He was fraking horrible. How many times did McCain have to talk over Obama and just keep talking and talking and talking and talking and talking before the guy tells him to shut up?

[Carcharodon]

Good! It should be brought up across the board!Well, hold on. I don't think it should be emphasized as an election issue, even though we can talk about it on a small scale. I really don't think it should be focused on so much that people base their decision off of it.

[Knives]

In being as objective as I can, I do not think that this debate was a 'game changer' for either candidate. That said, I believe that John McCain had more to lose in this first debate (considering his actions within the past two week.) In my opinion, McCain came off as disrespectful, angry, and sometimes even bitter. He only looked at Barack Obama twice the whole time, and those times came at the beginning and end of the debate when they greeted one another. McCain laughed, smirked, and even scoffed at Obama. Barack Obama, on the other hand, did seem presidential. He was very calm and collected. Not one time did he appear as arrogante as John McCain.

So overall, I don't think this was a 'game changer'. I do believe that the edge goes to Obama based on the overall presentation of the two. (Which in my opinion, is what the larger majority of people base their opinions on.)


I agree with you completely. In the end, after the dust has settled, I think Obama will be viewed as the winner simply becuase he was able to stan dup to McCain, all the while McCain just kept trying to dismiss him as an annoying bug and looking angry and annoyed. Obama looked collected, calm and like he had a grip on the issues. His problem is he let one too many good shots at McCain slip by and said "I agree with John" a little too much which the McCain campaign is now using against him. Obama needs to be more firm next time. But I give this debate to Obama by a hair. McCain's campaign isn't sunk by this debate, but it isn't saved either. And he NEEDED a game changer tonight.

[LuiECuomo]

The tall, black man scares McCain...he's afraid Obama is going to take his wallet...

Racist much?

[sasquatchs]

McCain was pretty successful in touting his experience with random asides but his attempts to paint Obama as naive just came off as patronising and disengenous given Obama's substantive answers. The couple of times McCain got caught on the defensive he just fell back on empty indignation, the bluster was effective at times though

[Carcharodon]

Racist much?Clueless, much?

[redfirebird2008]

Good! It should be brought up across the board!

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/09/26/sb3__1222480716_4091.jpg

I wish someone would post a picture of the "greeting" at the beginning of the debate where Obama is trying to talk to McCain but McCain is too busy staring out at the audience and moderator.

[The Senator]

Racist much?

Yes, one of our black posters is racist :yay:

[souvlaki]

First poll from CNN has Obama winning the debate 51% to 38%. Not exactly a scientific poll, but interesting nonetheless.

As far as my opinion on it... it was a draw. Speaking completely objectively McCain did better than expected on the economy, and Obama did better than expected on foreign policy. I'd say this will work to Obama's advantage though. He's not a great debater, but he still held his own against McCain, and that is all he really needed to do tonight.

[Marx]

Well, hold on. I don't think it should be emphasized as an election issue, even though we can talk about it on a small scale. I really don't think it should be focused on so much that people base their decision off of it.

I didn't say that it should be raised as an election issue. I said that the debate coverage and analysis needs to hit on it. The large majority of people in this country base their decisions on presentation. Who they like. Who they dislike. Who they feel they can best relate to. Who comes off as presidential. Who comes off as dismissive or arrogant. It's all about perception. In my opinion, that edge goes to Obama.

[redfirebird2008]

Olbermann just showed the part where Obama was talking directly to McCain about how he was wrong on Iraq (about being greeted as liberators, about it being an "easy" victory, etc.). And they show the camera angle from behind Obama as he's talking, McCain is staring straight out into the audience. The man is a coward. Can't even look his opponent in the eye when the man is using the phrase, "YOU" over and over. He wasn't talking to Leher, he was talking directly to McCain and McCain made an ass out of himself.

[Hole Shot]

He was fraking horrible. How many times did McCain have to talk over Obama and just keep talking and talking and talking and talking and talking before the guy tells him to shut up?

I don't think McCain was horrible at all, just that Obama was better because he was a whole lot classier.

If I'm a non-partisan undecided voter, Obama won my vote tonight.

I try my best to avoid policy discussion, most of you know I'm an economic conservative registered Republican that could care less about social issues, if you don't know that then you do now.

But I work in Marketing and Public Relations, for several years in actual political campaigns so that's what I'm the most interested in talking about and I like to highlight the highs and lows of both sides in that regard.

And in my opinion, Obama killed it tonight.

[chesslover]

I kinda knew the Presidential debates was going to be like this, the real show will be the VP debates.......oh i cant wait.

I can hear it now "Sarah you ignorant ****"-Joe Biden

[Hole Shot]

I can hear it now "Sarah you ignorant ****"-Joe Biden



HAHAHAHAHA! Brilliant!

[Gilpesh]

I don't think McCain was horrible at all

You take my words out of context. I was talking about the moderator of the debate.

He did horrible.

[Comicfilmer]

Yeah, the moderator was terrible.

[Hole Shot]

You take my words out of context. I was talking about the moderator of the debate.

He did horrible.


oh... sorry about that. I just finished a presidential debate drinking game so I'm prone to making those kinda mistakes.

[Gilpesh]

oh... sorry about that. I just finished a presidential debate drinking game so I'm prone to making those kinda mistakes.

I'm tired of the Reagan one... so I made it the debate heroin game... :csad:

[Hole Shot]

I'm tired of the Reagan one... so I made it the debate heroin game... :csad:

the needle exchange was closed today and the buzz isn't as good when you smoke or snort it.

[Marx]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/09/26/sb3__1222480716_4091.jpg

I wish someone would post a picture of the "greeting" at the beginning of the debate where Obama is trying to talk to McCain but McCain is too busy staring out at the audience and moderator.

Yeah...that picture is pretty representative of the evening. I also thought that it was interesting that McCain slightly backed away from Obama when they greeted each other at the beginning in front of Lehrer.

[Comicfilmer]

Guys...leave McCain alone. He's old. He probably thought he was looking at Obama.

[Franklin Richards]

Other than the fact that I disagree with most every policy he said tonight, I must admit McCain did alright tonight.


Ok. Back to partisan politics.


Bring on Round 2!


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Gilpesh]

I'm so bored.... we need Lazur to somehow spin this so it looks like McCain won and Obama was put in his place.

[Marx]

Guys...leave McCain alone. He's old. He probably thought he was looking at Obama.

He's old. Not blind.

[Motown Marvel]

The tall, black man scares McCain...he's afraid Obama is going to take his wallet...

obama let him keep his wallet....

DEBATE #2:

OBAMA: John, i have two bracelets....

[Knives]

obama let him keep his wallet....

DEBATE #2:

OBAMA: John, i have two bracelets....

McCain: Oh yeah? Well I got an anklette!

[Gilpesh]

McCain: Oh yeah? Well I got an anklette!

Obama: I got your nose! Got your nose!

McCain: Give it back! I need that!!!!!

[LuiECuomo]

Clueless, much?

Ignorant much?

[Frodo]

I think it's a strech to say Obama beat McCain . It seemed McCain got Obama on defense several times and got under his skin a bit . Ultimately though , I think Obama held his own and if expectations are that he could then I guess you give it to Obama. I do think McCain did better then expected and that the Democrats shouldn't underestimate him. I wanted Obama to put it away tonight and he didn't , but then again neither did McCain. I still think the issues and the climate of the country is on Obama's side. What he needs to do is not let McCain draw him out into long winded explanations. At the beginning I think Obama gave good short answers but it seemed to me McCain drew him out a bit and made him give long explanations in his rebuttel's. If I had to judge it , it was tie .

[LuiECuomo]

Yes, one of our black posters is racist :yay:

So wait...blacks can't make racist accusations of whites?

Gotcha.

[Hole Shot]

Other than the fact that I disagree with most every policy he said tonight, I must admit McCain did alright tonight.


Ok. Back to partisan politics.


Bring on Round 2!


:thing: :doom: :thing:


Is the next one town hall? That should be interesting because you're getting into an area where McCain is much more comfortable than Obama.

If I'm a McCain handler I'm telling him to start acknowledging Obama as a peer and an equal.

If I'm an Obaman handler I'm telling to just relax and do what you did tonight but with your jacket off.

[Excel]

Im watching it now; who won?

[Hole Shot]

Im watching it now; who won?

Obama in 12, split decision.

[Marx]

Im watching it now; who won?

Personally, I give the edge to Obama. (Given McCain's arrogance.)

[BlackLantern]

So wait...blacks can't make racist accusations of whites?

Gotcha.

It was a joke....I was joking....though I'm sure some of McCains supporters are genuinely afraid that Barack Obama might become President

[danoyse]

Personally, I give the edge to Obama. (Given McCain's arrogance.)

That's where I give Obama the edge overall. On this issues, I'd say they were even.

[Excel]

Is there any undecided person here? No offense, but everybody supports Obamasays he won...Fox saying 80% say McCain one...cbs says a tie.

[squeekness]

Personally, I give the edge to Obama. (Given McCain's arrogance.)Me, too, but then I am an Obama girl anyhow. I am not so sure that this debate, which was so close, changed anyone's mind if they had gone in already made up. I hope that this boosts obama up some more, but I can't be sure. The polls say Obama win but I don't know how trustworthy polls like that are.

[Marx]

Is there any undecided person here? No offense, but everybody supports Obamasays he won...Fox saying 80% say McCain one...cbs says a tie.

I would tell you if McCain won the debate. :dry:

[Excel]

links to polls?

[Hole Shot]

Is there any undecided person here? No offense, but everybody supports Obamasays he won...Fox saying 80% say McCain one...cbs says a tie.

I'm not undecided, but I'm a Republican and will likely vote McCain but think Obama was clearly better and pending circumstances may even consider voting for the guy.

[Marx]

Me, too, but then I am an Obama girl anyhow. I am not so sure that this debate, which was so close, changed anyone's mind if they had gone in already made up. I hope that this boosts obama up some more, but I can't be sure. The polls say Obama win but I don't know how trustworthy polls like that are.

I would say based on the issues, they were completely even. They did exactly what they needed to do. In overall presentation, which is what alot of people form their opinions on - Obama had the edge. He was not arrogant. He engaged McCain every chance that he could by talking to him and looking at him. Anytime that McCain spoke, Obama paid attention. That wasn't the case at all with McCain...and I think people saw that.

[Excel]

thats true marxy :cwink:

[danoyse]

I will say that with this debate McCain did salvage what was left of a potentially disastrous week for him.

That will probably all change when they let Palin out of the box, though. :wow:

[Hole Shot]

I would say based on the issues, they were completely even. They did exactly what they needed to do. In overall presentation, which is what alot of people form their opinions on - Obama had the edge. He was not arrogant. He engaged McCain every chance that he could by talking to him and looking at him. Anytime that McCain spoke, Obama paid attention. That wasn't the case at all with McCain.

That's pretty much what I'm saying as well.

[BlackLantern]

I'm still undecided....

[Motown Marvel]

Obama: I got your nose! Got your nose!

McCain: Give it back! I need that!!!!!

OBAMA: and now i got your desk in the oval office, BEOTCH! now sit the f**k back down in the senate and back the f**k off before i veto your ass back to a POW camp in veitnam....muh fugga....



i really am just waiting and hoping for obama to suddenly snap and go ghetto on mccain. it'd be glorious.

[Carcharodon]

Ignorant much?Thanks for affirming my "clueless" statement. You can crawl back under your rock now. :yay:

[Hole Shot]

I'm still undecided....

your signature says you clearly support jmanspice

[squeekness]

I will say that with this debate McCain did salvage what was left of a potentially disastrous week for him.

That will probably all change when they let Palin out of the box, though. :wow:Yeah, I am ssooo looking forward to the VP debate. That oughta be fun. :p

[souvlaki]

Fox saying 80% say McCain one

Let's be honest here Excel. Does this really shock you? Drudge Report's poll also had McCain winning by close to 70%. On the other hand both CNN and MSNBC had Obama winning by a decent margin. This is what it comes down to. Republicans though McCain won. Democrats thought Obama won. Undecided votes leaning toward McCain will probably swing to McCain after tonight, and undecided votes leaning toward Obama will probably swing to Obama after tonight. However, those people that were completely undecided I honestly feel will end up leaning toward Obama simply for the fact that he held his own tonight, and showed he was just as competent at debating as McCain. This whole debate was a complete rorschach test.

[BlackLantern]

yes...but for second place...between Obama and McCain....haven't picked that one yet

[LuiECuomo]

Thanks for affirming my "clueless" statement. You can crawl back under your rock now. :yay:

I don't see how I affirmed anything. Explain this.

[Marx]

I will say that with this debate McCain did salvage what was left of a potentially disastrous week for him.

That will probably all change when they let Palin out of the box, though. :wow:

For some reason, I cannot get the scene in Austin Powers where the Fembots go haywire out of my head. I just see Palin's head exploding in the debate with Biden. http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

'ello! 'ello!

[Carcharodon]

I don't see how I affirmed anything. Explain this.As soon as you explain how BlackLantern's statement was racist.

[souvlaki]

Also... CBS poll shows among undecided voters 39% thought Obama won, and 25% McCain won. The rest thought it was a draw. So yeah, overall a good night for Obama I'd say.

[Marx]

Also... CBS poll shows among undecided voters 39% thought Obama won, and 25% McCain won. The rest thought it was a draw. So yeah, overall a good night for Obama I'd say.

And that's all he needed. He didn't need to knock it out of the park, he just needed to hold his ground.

[LuiECuomo]

As soon as you explain how BlackLantern's statement was racist.

If he had meant his comment, then it would have been racist. Since he claims that it was a joke, I guess it's not.

[Hole Shot]

That will probably all change when they let Palin out of the box, though. :wow:


This exactly the attitude Democrats shouldn't have. Going into the debate they need to big deal her and tell people how wonderful she is.

If they treat her like she's just a backwoods hick out of her league then all she has to do is hold her own against Biden and it will get interpreted as an ass kicking on her part.

[BlackLantern]

someone needs to end Ralph Nader...or at least bang into his head that nobody cares about him anymore...

[Carcharodon]

If he had meant his comment, then it would have been racist. Since he claims that it was a joke, I guess it's not.No, that's a cop-out. Let's say he DID mean it, joking aside. How was it racist?

[Carcharodon]

This exactly the attitude Democrats shouldn't have. Going into the debate they need to big deal her and tell people how wonderful she is.That's exactly what Biden's been doing as of late.

[LuiECuomo]

No, that's a cop-out. Let's say he DID mean it, joking aside. How was it racist?

How is it not?!? Assuming that McCain has something against Obama because he's "afraid of blacks" without any evidence is an inherently racist comment.

[Hole Shot]

Also... CBS poll shows among undecided voters 39% thought Obama won, and 25% McCain won. The rest thought it was a draw. So yeah, overall a good night for Obama I'd say.

And that's all he needed. He didn't need to knock it out of the park, he just needed to hold his ground.


Just keep in mind the first debate four years ago that Kerry was the clear winner after Bush showed up half asleep and stuttering.

[BlackLantern]

If he had meant his comment, then it would have been racist. Since he claims that it was a joke, I guess it's not.

Claim? do you actually believe that was a serious statement I made??

[LuiECuomo]

Sorry, Lantern. I realize now it wasn't. But I'm interested in seeing what Carcharodan has to say.

[squeekness]

Just keep in mind the first debate four years ago that Kerry was the clear winner after Bush showed up half asleep and stuttering.
:( This is not encouraging.....

[Carcharodon]

How is it not?!? Assuming that McCain has something against Obama because he's "afraid of blacks" without any evidence is an inherently racist comment.What about John McCain's interview in which he stated that he's afraid Barry White hides under his bed at night?

[Marx]

Just keep in mind the first debate four years ago that Kerry was the clear winner after Bush showed up half asleep and stuttering.

I haven't forgotten that. But Bush didn't have a weak VP or 'campaign suspension' stunt that backfired in his face either. More importantly, Barack Obama is not John Kerry.

[Carcharodon]

Claim? do you actually believe that was a serious statement I made??In fairness I DID ask him to assume it was a serious statement. I wanna see how far he'll take it.

[LuiECuomo]

What about John McCain's interview in which he stated that he's afraid Barry White hides under his bed at night?

That doesn't answer my question of how that question, if intended as serious, is not racist.

[Hole Shot]

Claim? do you actually believe that was a serious statement I made??


I did. Wasn't you that prefered Hal Jordan over John Stewart in a JLA movie?!?!

[BlackLantern]

and John Kerry is not Herman Munster....contrary to popular belief

[danoyse]

As soon as you explain how BlackLantern's statement was racist.

BlackLantern has already explained what he meant by his joke, which was really a dig at racists and not an actual serious racist remark.

This issue is concluded, both of you stop arguing over it and get back on topic.

[Carcharodon]

That doesn't answer my question of how that question, if intended as serious, is not racist.You said without evidence. There's evidence.

[/Conservative]

[Marx]

and John Kerry is not Herman Munster....contrary to popular belief

No...but he was once his stunt double. :oldrazz:

[Carcharodon]

This issue is concluded, both of you stop arguing over it and get back on topic.:cmad:





:csad:























:cmad:

[souvlaki]

And that's all he needed. He didn't need to knock it out of the park, he just needed to hold his ground.

Exactly. I mean, my bias is completely obvious to anyone that has posted here long enough but I am the first to admit Obama is not a very good debater. He did horribly at just about every debate during the primary. The fact that he held his own against McCain at least for me is a huge win for him. I'm kind of surprised how high of expectations some people had for Obama tonight. He's never been great at debates but he held his own. That really was all he needed to do because the only reason most undecided voters have reservations about Obama is because they didn't know if Obama was capable of holding his own against a Senator with 26 years of experience. Tonight he proved he could.

[BlackLantern]

I did. Wasn't you that prefered Hal Jordan over John Stewart in a JLA movie?!?!

Yes...but that's not a decision based on race...that's a decision based on common sense

[gap5ewl]

One candidate wasn't overwhelmingly better then the other and I think, for the most part, both candidates were pretty equal tonight. Obama did meet expectations though showing he is knowledgable when it comes to foreign policy and wasn't afraid to back down with most of McCain's accusations against him. McCain exceed my expectations and proved he can take the lead with foreign policy. However, I think most people were expecting McCain to win the debate by a landslide and that didn't happen. Also he did come of condescending in a few instances. I thaught it was pretty good overall.

[LuiECuomo]

You said without evidence. There's evidence.

[/Conservative]
That's not evidence.

And let's listen to what the mod says.

[jaguarr]

All I kept hearing from conservatives and Republicans was how McCain was the stronger debater and Obama wasn't any good at that game and that he'd fall apart in the debate. I thought Obama did more than hold his own against McCain. He came off as Presidential, poised, intelligent, didn't lose his cool (though he definitely got perturbed a bit a couple of times), and had a factual answer for nearly everything McCain drummed up. McCain did well, but he came of as curmudgeonly and not engaging at all, hunched up like a grump and refusing to even look at Obama. He also used a lot of emotional button type answers to questions that really didn't address the issue at hand or avoided answering the question altogether on a couple of occassions, and he came off like a petty jerk for the constant misstating of Obama's stances and being snide towards him. McCain's act really put my wife off of him completely. I'd call it a draw overall, with maybe a slight edge to Obama for having more poise and composure and being more engaging of McCain than vice-versa.

Oh, and you're all racists. :dry:

jag

[Carcharodon]

That's not evidence.

And let's listen to what the mod says.That's not a real mod. I've seen her mod degree. It's written on a napkin.

[danoyse]

That's not evidence.

And let's listen to what the mod says.

Thank you.

[redfirebird2008]

Exactly. I mean, my bias is completely obvious to anyone that has posted here long enough but I am the first to admit Obama is not a very good debater. He did horribly at just about every debate during the primary. The fact that he held his own against McCain at least for me is a huge win for him. I'm kind of surprised how high of expectations some people had for Obama tonight. He's never been great at debates but he held his own. That really was all he needed to do because the only reason most undecided voters have reservations about Obama is because they didn't know if Obama was capable of holding his own against a Senator with 26 years of experience. Tonight he proved he could.

By the end of the primary he was holding his own with Clinton. In fact, he kicked her ass big time in one of those debates by making her look petty and silly.

[danoyse]

That's not a real mod. I've seen her mod degree. It's written on a napkin.

The only place you're going to be posting is on a napkin if you don't get back on topic.

[BlackLantern]

The only place you're going to be posting is on a napkin if you don't get back on topic.

...Oh no she didn't.....oh wait...she just did

[Hole Shot]

Yes...but that's not a decision based on race...that's a decision based on common sense

You make Common sad. But I agree with you!




Anyways, Obama did say something that annoyed me. He talked about alternative energy cars that are built here rather than Japan.

DUDE! Toyotas are like the most American car in NASCAR these days!

I'm a pretty patriotic guy, I like American products and own a couple handguns. But seriously, I'll take Toyota and Yamaha over Ford and Harley Davidson any day of the week.

[Excel]

So far Barack is owning.

[Marx]

Exactly. I mean, my bias is completely obvious to anyone that has posted here long enough but I am the first to admit Obama is not a very good debater. He did horribly at just about every debate during the primary. The fact that he held his own against McCain at least for me is a huge win for him. I'm kind of surprised how high of expectations some people had for Obama tonight. He's never been great at debates but he held his own. That really was all he needed to do because the only reason most undecided voters have reservations about Obama is because they didn't know if Obama was capable of holding his own against a Senator with 26 years of experience. Tonight he proved he could.

I think McCain's expectations were greater...considering the disaster that has been his campaign for the last week. He definately came in at a disadvantage.


...Oh no she didn't.....oh wait...she just did

:funny:

[Carcharodon]

...Oh no she didn't.....oh wait...she just didYes. She killed this thread. :cmad:

Is anybody watching that thingy on CNN? The thingy where they're re-playing the debate with continuous response from a select audience and tracking their reactions?

[souvlaki]

Just keep in mind the first debate four years ago that Kerry was the clear winner after Bush showed up half asleep and stuttering.

Big difference being though that McCain is not an incumbent, and if I remember correctly, at the time of the first debate Kerry didn't have a lead in the polls. I would say a more apt comparison (and I know I'm going to get someone mad at me for making this comparison) is the first Kennedy/Nixon debate. Everyone expected Kennedy to do horribly during that debate and he held his own. He also won points for looking more composed, and likable during the debate than Nixon. But neither really "won" the debate so to speak.

[Mr Sparkle]

So, from a foreigner's point of view.

McCain did something that was perplexing to me, I saw it later described by the NPR annalists as going on the "offensive", but frankly, all I saw was a surly old man who couldn't even muster the courtesy to give Obama a glance when he spoke, as opposed to Obama's attentiveness to Him as he began any answer.
interesting thing though and I didn't pick this up right away but it was my girlfriend ( who doesn't really know a lot about politics or cares anyway) she said.
"Why is it that when Obama answers a question on topic he answer about the topic and when McCain answers a question he always includes something negative, sometimes even irrelevant about Obama in his answer?"
she was also put off by the fact that McCain wouldn't look at Obama as he spoke and the fact that he talked over him like a child.
It was weird, the issues were handled ok I guess but McCain did come off as petulant to me, again analists said that he clearly showed he had experience but I gathered he had were anecdotes.
"the other day I was in ....." followed by this or that, Obama was on message and did not let himself be put down pointing out innacuracies when they arose.
I'll check factcheck.org tomorrow to see what is what but to me, as an outside observer, Obama was much more Presidential than McCain, McCain came off a little hot-headed and, well it's up to you guys to choose who you want to lead.

but please choose Obama, the other guy is kind of duplicitious.
taking into account I actually thought he was awesome in 2000 but since then?

bleh, McCain is not Presidential material.
unless you know, the country were comprised of mainly the living dead?
then yes, I could see his shambling walk being greeted with the moans of the damned.

otherwise not so much.

[Marx]

So far Barack is owning.

Try to be objective Ex. I don't think anyone really owned anyone. (With the exception of Obama saying McCain was wrong on this and that, with regard to Iraq.)

The edge goes to Obama because of McCain's arrogance.

[BlackLantern]

He's not owning ....he stood his ground.....I expect Biden to annihilate Little Miss Mooseburger next week....that should be ownage of the highest order

[Hole Shot]

All I kept hearing from conservatives

Conservatives? There's no such thing these days. There's a bunch of socialists that pander to the Christian right that call themselves Neo-Cons I hear a lot about.

[redfirebird2008]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00YrbXt0Kt3Yl/340x.jpg

[Mr Sparkle]

I'm a pretty patriotic guy, I like American products and own a couple handguns.

....the hell?

[hippie_hunter]

I personally find this debate to be a draw. In terms of appealing to Republicans and Democrats, McCain and Obama both win in appealing to their respective camps. In terms of appealing to independents however, I don't think that this will change anything.

On one hand, McCain was far better in answering questions while Obama stuttered, came off knowledgeable, and of course Obama did say "John is right" or "I agree with Senator McCain" several times. These are pluses for McCain.

On the other hand, Obama did do a good job holding on his own and played a good defense to McCain's attacking style which may have been a little much. While debating is still his weakest point, Obama has definitely improved in this area. These are the pluses for Obama.

The biggest negative though for both candidates was how they both appeared to get under each others skin. Not heated like Obama was with Clinton, but you could tell that they slightly annoyed each other.

[Marx]

He's not owning ....he stood his ground.....I expect Biden to annihilate Little Miss Mooseburger next week....that should be ownage of the highest order

:lmao:

[Franklin Richards]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/crydoomcry.jpg

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Hole Shot]

....the hell?

touche

[souvlaki]

lol... Matthews on the debate:

"Do you think McCain was too troll-like?"

[Marx]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00YrbXt0Kt3Yl/340x.jpg

Body language says alot.

[Excel]

Try to be objective Ex. I don't think anyone really owned anyone. (With the exception of Obama saying McCain was wrong on this and that, with regard to Iraq.)

The edge goes to Obama because of McCain's arrogance.

Im watchign it now, is on Iraq. Obama just owned him. He owned when after McCains rant about him being a maverick, he whipped out the "you voted 90% with bush, ect. what kind of leader is that?".

[redfirebird2008]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06lv7A99jVcul/340x.jpg

[The Senator]

Actually, I'll tell you what the most awkward, idiotic moment of the night was: When John McCain dropped Hillary Clinton's name at the end of one his responses, when talking about some piece of legislation he worked on.

[Carcharodon]

Does McCain's posturing, disdain of eye-contact and general body language during this debate say anything perhaps about his demeanor when meeting certain foreign leaders? I mean, if he behaved this way tonight, how will he behave in those scenarios? Particularly if he doesn't care much for the leader?

[BlackLantern]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00YrbXt0Kt3Yl/340x.jpg

Dude..get clear I just beefed, I had a burrito before the debate and I've been holding that in since we started....

[redfirebird2008]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02bI8tTfVqbHt/610x.jpg

[hippie_hunter]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06lv7A99jVcul/340x.jpg

It looks like he's trying to signal to him to just go away :hehe:

[souvlaki]

Im watchign it now, is on Iraq. Obama just owned him. He owned when after McCains rant about him being a maverick, he whipped out the "you voted 90% with bush, ect. what kind of leader is that?".

Well, the problem is I think you are looking too much at the issues themselves, which are subjective depending on your own political preference. Without a doubt Obama owned in that respect for me because I obviously agree with the guy far more than McCain. Overall though, objectively looking at their individual debating skills I'd say it was more of a draw. I think Obama could have done better than he did overall. However, and this is much more important, McCain should have done much better than he did. This was more or less his night tonight, foreign policy is his strong suit and Obama managed to hold his own. That says a lot right there.

[redfirebird2008]

Actually, I'll tell you what the most awkward, idiotic moment of the night was: When John McCain dropped Hillary Clinton's name at the end of one his responses, when talking about some piece of legislation he worked on.

Something about working on global warming. Complete pandering.

I don't know what was worse, that or the part where he AGAIN tried to portray soldiers' service as being in vain if we don't continue fighting a war. That's a horrible view to take. Their service is patriotic and honorable REGARDLESS of the damn outcome of the war. Those soldiers who fought and died in Korea and Vietnam didn't die in vain, and neither did the soldiers in Iraq. McCain even suggesting that is pretty pathetic, and to make it worse he busted out with the bracelet story. Too bad for him Obama also has a bracelet story of his own.

[souvlaki]

Wow... most initial polls are really pulling for Obama. That's pretty encouraging.

[Excel]

Obama totally embarassed McCain and made him look like a fool, anybody with a brain will make the connection McCains solution to the problem is an idiotic combeack because if wed listened to obama, we woulda had no problem at all.

[Excel]

Wow... most initial polls are really pulling for Obama. That's pretty encouraging.

links?

[Hole Shot]

Does McCain's posturing, disdain of eye-contact and general body language during this debate say anything perhaps about his demeanor when meeting certain foreign leaders? I mean, if he behaved this way tonight, how will he behave in those scenarios? Particularly if he doesn't care much for the leader?


Honestly, no. You can't argue that he has a history of being able to broker deals with the other side (which is why Party loyalist hate him). So he clearly has a strength in one-on-one personal interaction that we don't get to see.

[Marx]

Well, the problem is I think you are looking too much at the issues themselves, which are subjective depending on your own political preference. Without a doubt Obama owned in that respect for me because I obviously agree with the guy far more than McCain. Overall though, objectively looking at their individual debating skills I'd say it was more of a draw. I think Obama could have done better than he did overall. However, and this is much more important, McCain should have done much better than he did. This was more or less his night tonight, foreign policy is his strong suit and Obama managed to hold his own. That says a lot right there.

McCain would have won this debate had it not been for his horrendous demeanor.

[hippie_hunter]

Wow... most initial polls are really pulling for Obama. That's pretty encouraging.

Most initial polls in debates had Ron Paul winning by a large margin as well. Or Obama doing well against Hillary Clinton when he clearly didn't. I wouldn't take them seriously.

[EdRyder]

I got a stupid question. Where the hell are these 'bracelets' coming from? Did the military switch from dog tags to bracelets and I didn't catch it? Is it some kind of medical info/blood type thing? It must be new, Ive never heard of this till now.

[souvlaki]

links?

I already posted the one from CBS. InsiderAdvantage/Poll Position (http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/storylink_926_594.aspx) shows a split with undecided voters, 42% Obama and 41% for McCain with older voters oddly enough leaned towards Obama (which in my opinion is actually a pretty big win for Obama). CNN went overwhelmingly toward Obama (something like a 66% Obama win).

[jaguarr]

Conservatives? There's no such thing these days. There's a bunch of socialists that pander to the Christian right that call themselves Neo-Cons I hear a lot about.

The point from the Senator from La Jolla has been heard and I agree.

jag

[danoyse]

Most initial polls in debates had Ron Paul winning by a large margin as well. Or Obama doing well against Hillary Clinton when he clearly didn't. I wouldn't take them seriously.

Yeah, I would imagine most of the votes are just coming from rabid supporters of the candidates trying to boost their guy's poll numbers.

[lazur]

Very handily indeed.

Bam, bam, bam! Fact after fact. He knows everyone and has been everywhere. Is there anything this man doesn't know or hasn't done with respect to foreign policy? Probably not, and definitely not a very intelligent, very articulate, but very naive, idealistic, inexperienced junior Senator with fewer years under his belt as a politician than McCain spent getting beaten in a pow camp.

Obama made some accusations, maybe even some factual (like the health care tax thing that I *really* want to know more about), that McCain didn't counter (I believe intentionally, because he couldn't), but Obama was on the defense much, much more. He was tripping up his words at times, and a couple of times not even remembering McCain's name.

When McCain brought up the bracelet of the soldier that he wears, Obama poorly attempted a counter, but it became obvious that his inability to remember the name on the bracelet sort of gave the impression of being hollow. I'm not 100% sure that he didn't actually have to look down to read the name off the bracelet (the camera didn't pan that far), but I'm sure that moment was terrible for him, and embarrassing.

On the subjects of Iran, the entire middle east, Russia, pretty much everywhere, Obama got spanked. Yet he continued to talk about 'how we got into Iraq in the first place' and how he was the only one who opposed it. Of course, it was that subject Obama used against Hillary during the primaries - scolding her for voting for the war in Iraq. And then he goes out and gets Biden as his VP, someone else who voted for the war in Iraq. The argument is stupid. Americans and American politicians were united at the time, and no amount of revisionist history will change that fact. Since our time there, yes it's been mishandled, but it was McCain who first starting making noise about it, and then, and *only* then, did the Democrats really climb on board to the anti-Iraq movement, when it should have been the anti-mishandling-the-war-movement.

McCain continued to remind Obama that the next President needs to understand how to end this war the right way; that Petraeus and Secretary Gates both agree that Obama's 'timeline' strategy would fail miserably. But hey, I guess we don't need to listen to our generals on the ground, certainly if we want to repeat the mistakes of Bush, which Obama with that position appears willing to do.

When the subject of Russia came up, McCain exploded with data, taking a lengthy time to bring the audience up to date about what the region of the world is all about, and who's who, etc. He rattled it off like a professional, speaking of how he'd traveled here and there and met this leader and that leader. And when the moderator asked Obama what his position was, he said, I agree. Well, that was one of the eight times he would say that he agreed anyway.

They talked about taxes, but I thought McCain did poorly. He could easily have gone into the discussion about business tax and how all business tax is passed along to the consumer or employee. People just don't seem to think of it at that level. When you raise taxes on corporations, EVERYONE PAYS EXCEPT FOR THE CORPORATIONS. Why? Because there's no single person named 'Corporation' for that corporation. The whole company pays. It's an expense of doing business. When the cost of doing business increases, publicly traded corporations must do everything they can to maintain a strong market presence. Those increased taxes affect the bottom line, and the bottom line affects stock, and stock affects the market and the market affects the economy. It's NOT a hard thing to understand. Yet, Obama still rails against its logic, even when our economy is heading down.

Obama sounded like he was being generic with his language. There was a lot of 'soft language' as George Carlin would call it. McCain, on the other hand, would say that he looked into Putin's eyes and saw K-G-B.

I don't see how anyone could say that Obama made more sense in this debate. He steered away from specifics, occasionally popping out a 'soft' fact (you were for the war, John) that is, at this moment in our planet's life, irrelevant. We're looking for someone who KNOWS what he's doing - not someone who SAYS he knows what he's doing. While Obama may be an intelligent man, experience can never be replaced by intelligence.

McCain is both.

That's how I see it.

[Mikelus]

The debate was.... boring, lack some substance. McCain was a jerk and Obama too nice, but he seems to be a better human being, McCain has a very negative vibe about him.

[souvlaki]

Yeah, I would imagine most of the votes are just coming from rabid supporters of the candidates trying to boost their guy's poll numbers.

That's why I don't put much stock in most polls. All the polls I'm referring to were specifically focused on undecided voters though.

[Marx]

That's how I see it.

I don't think anyone would have expected any other answer from you. I only have one question for you Lazur - Did you approve of John McCain's demeanor throughout the debate?

[Marx]

That's why I don't put much stock in most polls. All the polls I'm referring to were specifically focused on undecided voters though.

I certainly give a little more weight to undecided voter reaction polls. Republican and Democratic reactions will all be fairly predictable.

[redfirebird2008]

Spinmeister, lazur. LOL. It was a pretty even debate overall. McCain lacks the professionalism necessary to be President though. He tries not looking a foreign leader in the eye like he did with Obama tonight and he's going to have a nuclear standoff on his hands in a heartbeat.

[souvlaki]

I don't think anyone would have expected any other answer from you. I only have one question for you Lazur - Did you approve of John McCain's demeanor throughout the debate?

I didn't even bother reading it. Let me guess, Obama did horribly, McCain won and anyone that thinks otherwise is a partisan hack? Did I more or less sum up lazur's post?

[hitmanyr2k]

lazur time after time you've proven that you don't know **** on any subject. As many times as people have had to correct you and your assinine posts you're hardly in a position to judge what a fact is. You're so gullible McCain could tell you that the sky is falling and you would believe it.

[hippie_hunter]

Spinmeister, lazur. LOL.

I didn't even bother reading it. Let me guess, Obama did horribly, McCain won and anyone that thinks otherwise is a partisan hack? Did I more or less sum up lazur's post?

lazur time after time you've proven that you don't know **** on any subject. As many times as people have had to correct you and your assinine posts you're hardly in a position to judge what a fact is. You're so gullible McCain could tell you that the sky is falling and you would believe it.

There is no need to go after lazur like that. Just because he doesn't agree with your candidate gives you three no right to just simply be rude and arrogant towards him :o