Reintroducing Superman: An Open Discussion

[DavidTyler]

I absolutely hate the Jor-El as God metaphor.

I'd rather Jor-El be a just a man trying to give his son life by rescuing him from a dying world.

[Antonello Blueberry]

I agree with most of what David said, but isn't Superman's saviour status sort of inherent?
There are many books comparing Superman to biblical figure, especially Moses. I think Michael Uslan wrote his college thesis on such a thing.

[GreenKToo]

I dont mind little nods here and there to God/Jesus/whatever, but I didnt care for the in your face scenes in S.R., like the crucifixion pose, and the clouds parting for him when he dives back into the sea. That was a bit too much and over the top for me.

Anyway, looks like Orci and Kurtzman may be out? I hope not.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

There are many books comparing Superman to biblical figure, especially Moses. I think Michael Uslan wrote his college thesis on such a thing.

I could name at least 10 Superman books that present as a messiah/saviour/christ figure off the top of my head.

[Mostpowerful]

personally i dont mind the savior aspect...but i'd much more prefer that he sent hisson to earth because he has th greatest chance of survival there...i mean really...if you found out the earth was going to blow up tomorrow...would you send your only kid to a planet where he had the best chance of survival, or would you send him just because he could be the savior there. i would send my son to the place where he best had a chance to survive, and then hope that he could be the beacon of light to show the way.



And that's the case in Superman The Movie. Seriously! Go watch that part of the movie and you'll see. Pay attention to what Jor-El tells Lara.



I absolutely hate the Jor-El as God metaphor.

I'd rather Jor-El be a just a man trying to give his son life by rescuing him from a dying world.

That metaphor it's part of the Superman story whether you like it or not. But you can ignore it if it bothers you so much.

[Christmas]

I dont mind little nods here and there to God/Jesus/whatever, but I didnt care for the in your face scenes in S.R., like the crucifixion pose, and the clouds parting for him when he dives back into the sea. That was a bit too much and over the top for me.

Anyway, looks like Orci and Kurtzman may be out? I hope not.

They probably are. A draft of Star Trek 2 has to be into Paramount by December.

[Mostpowerful]

I hope the screenplay for Star Trek is waaaaaaay better than Transformers, though.... I'm not impressed by their writing abilities so far.

[FlawlessVictory]

Anyway, looks like Orci and Kurtzman may be out? I hope not.

You're assuming we are getting a Superman movie in 2011. I don't think we are. Honestly, I think Wonder Woman has a better chance at being released in 2011 than Superman does. At least there is buzz surrounding that project(currently looking for writers, a director). Can't say the same for Superman.

2014 = next Superman film. :ikyn

[GreenKToo]

You're assuming we are getting a Superman movie in 2011. I don't think we are. Honestly, I think Wonder Woman has a better chance at being released in 2011 than Superman does. At least there is buzz surrounding that project(currently looking for writers, a director). Can't say the same for Superman.

2014 = next Superman film. :ikyn
The longer we go, the more i'm inclined to agree with you.

[dark_b]

You're assuming we are getting a Superman movie in 2011. I don't think we are. Honestly, I think Wonder Woman has a better chance at being released in 2011 than Superman does. At least there is buzz surrounding that project(currently looking for writers, a director). Can't say the same for Superman.

2014 = next Superman film. :ikynmaybe its a top secret project. they have everything planned out.

and they will hit us big.

[El Payaso]

I hope the screenplay for Star Trek is waaaaaaay better than Transformers, though.... I'm not impressed by their writing abilities so far.

Don't hold your breath on that.

A giant robot peeing on a CIA guy is top notch writing and won't be beaten anytime soon so easily.

[Mostpowerful]

Don't hold your breath on that.

A giant robot peeing on a CIA guy is top notch writing and won't be beaten anytime soon so easily.

:hehe: And as long as it appeals to the masses, who cares, right? Studios certainly don't.

What a sad and disappointing world this is sometimes.

[FlawlessVictory]

:hehe: And as long as it appeals to the masses, who cares, right? Studios certainly don't.

What a sad and disappointing world this is sometimes.

God forbid there were people who enjoyed a movie about giant fighting robots. You know, just a couple of hours of mindless, fun entertainment. Is that still allowed or will the world come to an end? :rolleyes:

Can you be anymore overly dramatic?

[dark_b]

yeah its a sad world that a guy gets 200 millions and doesnt please the masses. its a sad world that we didnt get grounbreaking flying in 2006 with a 200 million budget.

its a sad world that TF2 comes out this year . and the first movie came out 1 year after SR.

its a sad world that IM came out 2 years after SR and they are already building sets and having rehersals for IM2.

thats a sad world.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Meh. K&O were expected to pen the Star Trek sequel. So that news isn't a shock.

Just some food for thought, but why would it take them till Christmas to hand in their draft for the sequel if all they're doing right now is touch-ups on Cowboys & Aliens? :huh:

[FlawlessVictory]

yeah its a sad world that a guy gets 200 millions and doesnt please the masses. its a sad world that we didnt get grounbreaking flying in 2006 with a 200 million budget.

its a sad world that TF2 comes out this year . and the first movie came out 1 year after SR.

its a sad world that IM came out 2 years after SR and they are already building sets and having rehersals.

thats a sad world.

:hehe:

[Showtime]

K&O are the go to guys on Sci Fi/Action properties at this point, them doing Superman would bring some major geek cred and notoriety to the project. Unfortunately it doesn't look good for them even being available to write a Superman film. There are a lot of writers out there to choose from though.

[FilmNerdJamie]

^:hehe:

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF ME!?!?!?!?!?! :oldrazz:

[FlawlessVictory]

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF ME!?!?!?!?!?! :oldrazz:

Haha, no. I fixed my post, it was for dark_b. :word:

[FilmNerdJamie]

Haha, no. I fixed my post, it was for dark_b. :word:

Didn't realize that till after I had posted my message. DOH! I was just pickin' with ya anyway. :oldrazz:

[FlawlessVictory]

K&O are the go to guys on Sci Fi/Action properties at this point, them doing Superman would bring some major geek cred and notoriety to the project. Unfortunately it doesn't look good for them even being available to write a Superman film. There are a lot of writers out there to choose from though.

Not to El Payaso, who seems to be so hung up on the robot peeing scene. Because we all know that K&O will put in a peeing scene and masturbation joke in all of their movies. :whatever:

[dark_b]

well facts are facts. before a new superman comes out IM2 and TF2 will already be in our DVD collections

[El Payaso]

:hehe: And as long as it appeals to the masses, who cares, right? Studios certainly don't.

What a sad and disappointing world this is sometimes.

Of course it pleases the masses. We all pee and we all hate CIA. :cmad:

Why can't all writers get that?



EDIT
Not to El Payaso,

Hey! :)

Again people talking about me and I wasn't aware.

El Payaso, who seems to be so hung up on the robot peeing scene.

What's so wrong about focusing on the best the movie had? :(

Because we all know that K&O will put in a peeing scene and masturbation joke in all of their movies.

I said that I doubt that could be beaten. But I don't doubt Transformers writers will come with other equally brilliant stuff to fill the gaps between CGI fights.

[Showtime]

Well K&O surely aren't the best screenwriters that ever lived, but lets not act like Superman Returns deserves to be bronzed in the halls of the Writers Guild either.

[Mostpowerful]

yeah its a sad world that a guy gets 200 millions and doesnt please the masses. its a sad world that we didnt get grounbreaking flying in 2006 with a 200 million budget.

its a sad world that TF2 comes out this year . and the first movie came out 1 year after SR.

its a sad world that IM came out 2 years after SR and they are already building sets and having rehersals for IM2.

thats a sad world.

Well, I, and others, got a Superman movie we LOVE with Superman Returns. Sorry you didn't.


Of course it pleases the masses. We all pee and we all hate CIA. :cmad:

Why can't all writers get that?



EDIT


Hey! :)

Again people talking about me and I wasn't aware.



What's so wrong about focusing on the best the movie had? :(



I said that I doubt that could be beaten. But I don't doubt Transformers writers will come with other equally brilliant stuff to fill the gaps between CGI fights.

:lmao:

And Perhaps they will try a dancing scene ala Spidey 3?

[El Payaso]

Well K&O surely aren't the best screenwriters that ever lived, but lets not act like Superman Returns deserves to be bronzed in the halls of the Writers Guild either.

Ok. Let's not.





......











:lmao:

And Perhaps they will try a dancing scene ala Spidey 3?

Why do you insist in laughing at great mass-pleasing writing? It's just annoying. Dancing in the street and finger-gunning cute girls is as valid to portray the hero's dark side as anything else. Plus, it pleased masses and made money. I loved my Peter eating cookies and having milk while talking to Dr. Connors, that's mass-pleasing darkness you see, dark doesn't have to be dark. And if you didn't care as how he was pretending to fall asleep at the phone as a mockery then you don't get what a black spider-suit does to a man as we fans do.

[Showtime]

Ok. Let's not.


......

Money talks, especially to studios. WB isn't looking to make SupesDog Millionaire. They would kill for another Transformers. This is coming from somebody who didn't like Transformers...

[FilmNerdJamie]

To be honest, I'm a tiny bit surprised Paul Haggis' name was never brought up. I mean, he did co-write Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace and did touch-up work on Terminator: Salvation for WB.

[dark_b]

Well, I, and others, got a Superman movie we LOVE with Superman Returns. Sorry you didn't.

no you got a movie with brandon routh.

maybe you forgot it. but i didnt. you said that if BR is not in the superman movie that then you wont watch it. nothing against you of course.

[dark_b]

Money talks, especially to studios. WB isn't looking to make SupesDog Millionaire. They would kill for another Transformers. This is coming from somebody who didn't like Transformers...
i think they would rather kill for an IM :hehe:

[RachelDawes]

You're assuming we are getting a Superman movie in 2011. I don't think we are. Honestly, I think Wonder Woman has a better chance at being released in 2011 than Superman does. At least there is buzz surrounding that project(currently looking for writers, a director). Can't say the same for Superman.

2014 = next Superman film. :ikyn

Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I don't see the WW movie getting off the ground anytime soon. Sigh.

[Mostpowerful]

no you got a movie with brandon routh.

maybe you forgot it. but i didnt. you said that if BR is not in the superman movie that then you wont watch it. nothing against you of course.

I got a great Superman movie. And I'm not alone on that. Deal with it.

[El Payaso]

Money talks, especially to studios. WB isn't looking to make SupesDog Millionaire. They would kill for another Transformers. This is coming from somebody who didn't like Transformers...

I can't be cooler with that.

Now, if studios didn't want to have a deeper (than the average summer blockbuster) Superman movie, I wonder why they made one.

I have stated m,any times I'm okay if they want more money; can't blame them. It's their money.

But my point has always been that... why should I discuss/care about what they want? Isn't it ME who's watching the movies? I mean, since it's MY money that I'm spending buying the tickets?

[Showtime]

I can't be cooler with that.

Now, if studios didn't want to have a deeper (than the average summer blockbuster) Superman movie, I wonder why they made one.

I have stated m,any times I'm okay if they want more money; can't blame them. It's their money.

But my point has always been that... why should I discuss/care about what they want? Isn't it ME who's watching the movies? I mean, since it's MY money that I'm spending buying the tickets?

That is fine, but Superman Returns quality it is a matter of opinion. Money is not a matter of opinion, it is a statistic and in essence it becomes a fact. We aren't getting a Superman sequel because it didn't meet projections. So while you can enjoy Superman Returns, you'll never be able to see a continuation because of what the studios care about. Money.

[Maze]

Yup, but there is another way if they wan't to get more money (not that this is ever a sure thing)

There are surely some up and coming director a la Nolan on Batman or Raimi on spiderman, who have a passion for the character and a vision who could satisfy most people.

[dark_b]

Yup, but there is another way if they wan't to get more money (not that this is ever a sure thing)

There are surely some up and coming director a la Nolan on Batman or Raimi on spiderman, who have a passion for the character and a vision who could satisfy most people.there is no formula for finding the right director. even if he has passion for the character.

but we know how to make a movie for the masses.

they will have to make a choice.

[Maze]

Well, sorry if i didn't make myself clearn but my point was not there is a formula either.

[Maze]

Ps: Maybe you think that the transformers formula is the way to go with superman..Transformers is one thing, and was "new" in a way . if you add kick ass action, it may sell more yes.. or not ...don't forget the Incredible hulk, another movie for the masses...

Even if you stick to the masses "formula", there is another factor: for a lot of people of this generation superman is annoying.

he needs to be revamped (not necessarly in being darker)Every generation had their superman, and was successful in doing so..and for that it will need a true vision (who could possibly also satisfy the masses, hence the Nolan/Batman example)

[JackMercy]

there is no formula for finding the right director. even if he has passion for the character.

but we know how to make a movie for the masses.

they will have to make a choice.

"Nobody knows anything."

--William Goldman

:word:

[X Knight]

Superman needs a catchy sound effect associated with him.....like "Thwipp" and "Snikt"....

He could also use a catchy phrase.....such as "Nash Out!"

:o

:cwink:

[Maze]

:woot: :cwink:

[X Knight]

To boost his movie's mass appeal, Superman should also drive really fast cars and surround himself with really hot, scantily clad chicks......

He should have his movie called: "Super Fast.....Super Furious"

:woot:

[Mostpowerful]

Ps: Maybe you think that the transformers formula is the way to go with superman..Transformers is one thing, and was "new" in a way . if you add kick ass action, it may sell more yes.. or not ...don't forget the Incredible hulk, another movie for the masses...

Even if you stick to the masses "formula", there is another factor: for a lot of people of this generation superman is annoying.

he needs to be revamped (not necessarly in being darker)Every generation had their superman, and was successful in doing so..and for that it will need a true vision (who could possibly also satisfy the masses, hence the Nolan/Batman example)

Are you sure about that?

Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20268050,00.html) has finished compiling their list of the Top 20 Coolest Heroes in Pop Culture, with Superman (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20268279_17,00.html) coming in at No. 3.

James Bond was voted the No. 1 hero, with Indiana Jones taking second place.
However it should be noted that Superman took the No. 1 spot in the Reader's Poll (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20268050_3,00.html) associated with the article


Going by the comments, LOTS of people still care about Superman: http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/03/indiana-jones-w.html?xid=rss-popwatch-Indiana%20Jones,%20Wonder%20Woman,%20Frodo%20Baggi ns:%20Who%27s%20your%20favorite%20pop-culture%20hero%3f

[Showtime]

I don't think that Superman is as irrelevant as say The Hulk, but Batman and Spiderman certainly have surpassed him on film.

[Maze]

Are you sure about that?

Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20268050,00.html) has finished compiling their list of the Top 20 Coolest Heroes in Pop Culture, with Superman (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20268279_17,00.html) coming in at No. 3.

James Bond was voted the No. 1 hero, with Indiana Jones taking second place.
However it should be noted that Superman took the No. 1 spot in the Reader's Poll (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20268050_3,00.html) associated with the article


Going by the comments, LOTS of people still care about Superman: http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/03/indiana-jones-w.html?xid=rss-popwatch-Indiana%20Jones,%20Wonder%20Woman,%20Frodo%20Baggi ns:%20Who%27s%20your%20favorite%20pop-culture%20hero%3f


Going by those numbers you are right, yes :).

from what i have observed in a lot of different places, from a lot of people of this generation, i 'm not so sure about that.(and i may be wrong. :cwink:)

but, i'm sure that there is a fondness for the character, that the potential is there, yes. :yay:

[SuperDaniel]

That is fine, but Superman Returns quality it is a matter of opinion. Money is not a matter of opinion, it is a statistic and in essence it becomes a fact. We aren't getting a Superman sequel because it didn't meet projections. So while you can enjoy Superman Returns, you'll never be able to see a continuation because of what the studios care about. Money.
Thank god it is about money too. LOL. I shouldn't be otherwise. It should be about money and quality like Dark Knight.

[dark_b]

Ps: Maybe you think that the transformers formula is the way to go with superman..Transformers is one thing, and was "new" in a way . if you add kick ass action, it may sell more yes.. or not ...don't forget the Incredible hulk, another movie for the masses...

Even if you stick to the masses "formula", there is another factor: for a lot of people of this generation superman is annoying.

he needs to be revamped (not necessarly in being darker)Every generation had their superman, and was successful in doing so..and for that it will need a true vision (who could possibly also satisfy the masses, hence the Nolan/Batman example)
i am always laughing my ass of when someone mentioned TIH.
its not like it had better action then 03 Hulk. teh desert sequence with the military is better then any action scene in TIH IMO.
they had a supervillain. that is a big plus IMO.

and IMO TIH was not for the masses. it was not only for the fans. but for the masses? hmmmm i dont think so.

[Maze]

Ha THI was like an arty movie? (for fans .) and the Lee movie was more for the "masses"?

well we see things differently :) (glad that you had a laugh that said :D ;) )

well, anyways this is not the place to discuss about that :cwink:

[GreenKToo]

Well K&O surely aren't the best screenwriters that ever lived, but lets not act like Superman Returns deserves to be bronzed in the halls of the Writers Guild either.
:pal:

Anywho, I can't see any of this changing anytime soon. round and round we go...

[The Guard]

Guard - it depends on what being a saviour means to you. To me it evokes images of an immaculate Christ-like character.

It means he saves people, though I have few problems with Superman being a Christ Figure, albeit an indirect one. I much prefer The Kents teaching him his values VS Jor-El sending him to Earth to save humanity, though both are pretty cool interpretations of the character. Being a Christ Figure though...just makes him a Christ Figure, which is a literary archetype. It doesn't actually make him Jesus. There's this tendency for people to rail against Superman as a Christ Figure because "I don't want him to be Jesus!" I don't think half those people know what a Christ Figure is.

[Mostpowerful]

I don't think that Superman is as irrelevant as say The Hulk, but Batman and Spiderman certainly have surpassed him on film.

I think Superman is still relevant but people want to see him fight new supervillains and to kick some serious butt like they've never seen him before in live action.

I mean, BB didn't make more $$ at the BO than SR, and it's considered by many a better film.. It was until TDK up the ante that the BO got bigger, though other factors contributed as well..


Going by those numbers you are right, yes :).

from what i have observed in a lot of different places, from a lot of people of this generation, i 'm not so sure about that.(and i may be wrong. :cwink:)

but, i'm sure that there is a fondness for the character, that the potential is there, yes. :yay:

Well, SR made nearly $400 mil ww and got pretty good reviews, and Superman didn't even throw a punch. I think lots of people still care for The Man of Steel, they just want to see him do different things, like fighting Doomsday or Mongul, or robots sent by Brainiac. It's a shame WB over-think Superman.

[RachelDawes]

To boost his movie's mass appeal, Superman should also drive really fast cars and surround himself with really hot, scantily clad chicks......

He should have his movie called: "Super Fast.....Super Furious"

:woot:

Take this idea to WB immediately. They'll hire you as a consultant for the next Superman movie on the spot.

[Showtime]

I think Superman is still relevant but people want to see him fight new supervillains and to kick some serious butt like they've never seen him before in live action.

I mean, BB didn't make more $$ at the BO than SR, and it's considered by many a better film.. It was until TDK up the ante that the BO got bigger, though other factors contributed as well..


That is what the general public wants, they don't care about Donner or what suit Sperman wore in the comics. They want knock down drag out action.

Superman as a character is still relevant but on film not as much as Batman and Spiderman. They have surpassed him, Iron Man will as well.

It made more money but not as much profit.

[wellsy]

If I can just make a point here about popularity versus quality - a movie can be quite popular, but not of the best quality (I'm talking about story here people - production values are kingmakers in Hollywood), and people can know it. Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children - great fun to watch. Does it make sense? Not really. But it's fun to watch on a night in, and I honestly don't mind it. I personally hold The Spirits Within to be a better film (production values are absolutely mind-boggling, even if the story is very staid and traditional), but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a fun ride.

It's the nature of the business - your primary job is to entertain. That's what brings in the bread money. Try and be all haughty and lecturing, while neglecting to be entertaining won't bring you any money, even if what you say is absolutely true and quite relevant. You need a bit of fun, and even though I enjoyed SR, I can easily see why someone doesn't like it. It just doesn't have the same element of fun and adventure as the first two Superman films, or Iron Man (which I saw a little while ago - great fun!).

And in Hollywood (and every other movie-producing geographic area on every other planet inhabited by intelligent species in the Orion Spur), it's money that talks loudest. That's why we're not seeing a sequel - Singer overspent, and the fan reaction was mixed.

In fact, that's half the problem. Unlike, say, Ang Lee's Hulk, which was generally despised by Hulk fans, Superman Returns doesn't have the whole fanbase railing against it, but then, unlike BB and TDK, it doesn't have nigh universal support either. Since the money was inconclusive (you've got to admit, budget for the film aside, $200 million is a lot of dosh), the fan voice was what would have determined WB's preference. Singer buggering off to do what he pleases didn't help WB's decision, and the split is still here.

It's frustrating, but honestly, we're sending some quite mixed messages to WB (we (don't) like Routh, we (don't) want Welling, we (don't) like Singer, we want Jason to live/die, Superman was awesome/OOC in SR, etc).

BB was in a somewhat similar position to SR when it finished its theatrical run. Going gangbusters on DVD helped it get its sequel, as was the fanbase's almost universal adoration of it, and Chris Nolan along with it (so that now, he is as close to God as any director could possibly get among us hopeless obsessives).

Really, the whole thing about this indecisiveness is that WB didn't get a definitive reaction either for or against the movie. The natural weight in favour of a sequel (ie Singer) has long since moved on (or so appearances would indicate). Few other directors are willing to take on the franchise - those that might probably wouldn't accept studio interference, and those that might accept it would be too timid to attach their name to a project with such potential controversy.

Essentially, no one wants to do Superman. Done right, he can be great (hell, I reckon a sequel or a reboot would, done right, easily be able to give Iron Man a run for its money). To me, both options would work. When it comes to Superman, the number of people on various discussion boards is entirely eclipsed by the number of people in the GP who will see this. Stating that you'll boycott it one way or the other will hardly make a dent in its overall earnings.

Either way, done right, Superman could be a marvelous money magnet. They just need to take a deep breath, say "This is what we want to do", and go about getting it done. I'm sure there's some way to get a Superman movie out, and quite frankly, I'd rather they set their course, no matter how slowly they sail it (rather than remaining becalmed as we are).

Well, didn't that turn into quite the essay. Enjoy the wall of text guys (and girls).

[solidsnake86]

Can you really blame someone for not wanting to touch superman, look at what happend to singer. Screw up once on these big budget films and theres a good chance your not going to be working under your own control. For a relatively small director they face an even worse possibility if it doesnt do well, never working again. I think thats why we wont see a sequel because I don't think many directors would ruin there careers on it.

I'm still surprised someone hasn't gone to WB with an ironman or begins type script where they didnt piss anyone off which isnt that hard to do. Krypton explodes, have daily planet characters, have a villain from the comics which doesnt make major changes but keeps the essence, the kents could go either way, alive or dead. How you make clark get to the daily planet would be entirely up to the writer and there is no wrong way to do it.

[Canis Sapiens]

If I can just make a point here about popularity versus quality - a movie can be quite popular, but not of the best quality (I'm talking about story here people - production values are kingmakers in Hollywood), and people can know it. Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children - great fun to watch. Does it make sense? Not really. But it's fun to watch on a night in, and I honestly don't mind it. I personally hold The Spirits Within to be a better film (production values are absolutely mind-boggling, even if the story is very staid and traditional), but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a fun ride.

It's the nature of the business - your primary job is to entertain. That's what brings in the bread money. Try and be all haughty and lecturing, while neglecting to be entertaining won't bring you any money, even if what you say is absolutely true and quite relevant. You need a bit of fun, and even though I enjoyed SR, I can easily see why someone doesn't like it. It just doesn't have the same element of fun and adventure as the first two Superman films, or Iron Man (which I saw a little while ago - great fun!).

And in Hollywood (and every other movie-producing geographic area on every other planet inhabited by intelligent species in the Orion Spur), it's money that talks loudest. That's why we're not seeing a sequel - Singer overspent, and the fan reaction was mixed.

In fact, that's half the problem. Unlike, say, Ang Lee's Hulk, which was generally despised by Hulk fans, Superman Returns doesn't have the whole fanbase railing against it, but then, unlike BB and TDK, it doesn't have nigh universal support either. Since the money was inconclusive (you've got to admit, budget for the film aside, $200 million is a lot of dosh), the fan voice was what would have determined WB's preference. Singer buggering off to do what he pleases didn't help WB's decision, and the split is still here.

It's frustrating, but honestly, we're sending some quite mixed messages to WB (we (don't) like Routh, we (don't) want Welling, we (don't) like Singer, we want Jason to live/die, Superman was awesome/OOC in SR, etc).

BB was in a somewhat similar position to SR when it finished its theatrical run. Going gangbusters on DVD helped it get its sequel, as was the fanbase's almost universal adoration of it, and Chris Nolan along with it (so that now, he is as close to God as any director could possibly get among us hopeless obsessives).

Really, the whole thing about this indecisiveness is that WB didn't get a definitive reaction either for or against the movie. The natural weight in favour of a sequel (ie Singer) has long since moved on (or so appearances would indicate). Few other directors are willing to take on the franchise - those that might probably wouldn't accept studio interference, and those that might accept it would be too timid to attach their name to a project with such potential controversy.

Essentially, no one wants to do Superman. Done right, he can be great (hell, I reckon a sequel or a reboot would, done right, easily be able to give Iron Man a run for its money). To me, both options would work. When it comes to Superman, the number of people on various discussion boards is entirely eclipsed by the number of people in the GP who will see this. Stating that you'll boycott it one way or the other will hardly make a dent in its overall earnings.

Either way, done right, Superman could be a marvelous money magnet. They just need to take a deep breath, say "This is what we want to do", and go about getting it done. I'm sure there's some way to get a Superman movie out, and quite frankly, I'd rather they set their course, no matter how slowly they sail it (rather than remaining becalmed as we are).

Well, didn't that turn into quite the essay. Enjoy the wall of text guys (and girls).

Well said, Wellsy.:up:

[Double Down]

Can you really blame someone for not wanting to touch superman, look at what happend to singer. Screw up once on these big budget films and theres a good chance your not going to be working under your own control. For a relatively small director they face an even worse possibility if it doesnt do well, never working again. I think thats why we wont see a sequel because I don't think many directors would ruin there careers on it.


I certainly see where you are coming from there -- and it makes a ton of sense -- but people in Hollywood have huge egos (especially directors) and there will be many that are certain that they are the ones who know what it takes to make Superman succeed.

[solidsnake86]

Well I guess you do need a ego to say "you know what, i know what would make a good superman film". We just have to hope that vision is something that is what we want to see too. Singer thought the Donner superman was that vision, most people grew up.

In the end though, its more of the writers I'm worried about. Look at GL, the writers came up with the script, campbell is directing, sure he can change some things but WB gave the greenlight to that script. The only thing we know is that some comic book writers pitched a script (grant morrison, i dunno if geoff johns did) but I would love to see what they came up with.

[Showtime]

They now have three writers on Lantern, they are really doing their best to get it right. Sounds great. Reads well. Should be good.

What WB needs and most likely is looking for, is a director that will be the face of Superman. A young dynamic, good looking guy who can sell the product he is directing. He'll be accessible to the fans and he'll understand then but go at the project with ferocity. He'll be able to take direction for the Execs but give the mythos his own spin.

[rduce]

Primarily you must please the core fans, which without a movie is not going to succeed. For the most part word of mouth killed SR from doing Dark Knight numbers and this was what WB expected from SR.

Without pleasing the fans with a story that follows for the most part the main Superman mythos, you are entering very dangerous waters. The vast majority of the movie going public has very little knowledge of who are the current or former supervillians that haunt the Superman Universe, so they have no concept of who Superman battles.

The average movie viewer is only going to go and see a movie once, it is the fans that are going to go and see it repeatedly. While this did happen to a lesser extent with SR the core fan group rebelled against the movie and badmouthed it enough that not only did they not go and see it again, normal everyday film viewers never went at all.

A Superman movie needs to be EPIC! SR was not, even with the huge budget that was granted to Singer. Singer’s vision of the character, like the movie was flawed and it is because of this SR under performed and we, the fans, are sitting her not getting another movie this year or next. In fact, I will venture a guess that we will not see another Superman live action film before 2015 at the earliest!

[Superark]

They now have three writers on Lantern, they are really doing their best to get it right. Sounds great. Reads well. Should be good.

What WB needs and most likely is looking for, is a director that will be the face of Superman. A young dynamic, good looking guy who can sell the product he is directing. He'll be accessible to the fans and he'll understand then but go at the project with ferocity. He'll be able to take direction for the Execs but give the mythos his own spin.

The big question is, do you think they will find that person, especially for a potential 2011 film?

[solidsnake86]

They now have three writers on Lantern, they are really doing their best to get it right. Sounds great. Reads well. Should be good.

What WB needs and most likely is looking for, is a director that will be the face of Superman. A young dynamic, good looking guy who can sell the product he is directing. He'll be accessible to the fans and he'll understand then but go at the project with ferocity. He'll be able to take direction for the Execs but give the mythos his own spin.

So basically they're looking for there own favreau. I'm sure they'll find someone at some point. Question is, will it be this year. Latino review usually gets scoops on this stuff and they've been rather quiet recently concerning superman

[Double Down]

You are right, that is Favreau to a T.

[Superark]

So basically they're looking for there own favreau. I'm sure they'll find someone at some point. Question is, will it be this year. Latino review usually gets scoops on this stuff and they've been rather quiet recently concerning superman


Exactly, which is why I think when there is significant news to break they will be the ones to do it. They have been way too quiet when in comes to Superman which leads me to believe they have some kind of agreement with WB or their source at least

[DavidTyler]

And that's the case in Superman The Movie. Seriously! Go watch that part of the movie and you'll see. Pay attention to what Jor-El tells Lara.





That metaphor it's part of the Superman story whether you like it or not. But you can ignore it if it bothers you so much.

NO.. it's not.

It was an invention of Donner. Donner didn't create the character. Siegel and Shuster did and the Christ analogy wasn't their doing.

And I'm assuming your first exposure to the character was the movie but the character existed for decades before that film.

I want the character to return to being a tuned up man and not a christ-like saviour.

[FilmNerdJamie]

What WB needs and most likely is looking for, is a director that will be the face of Superman. A young dynamic, good looking guy who can sell the product he is directing. He'll be accessible to the fans and he'll understand then but go at the project with ferocity. He'll be able to take direction for the Execs but give the mythos his own spin.

In nerd translation, what McG is doing for Terminator: Salvation right now.

[DavidTyler]

It means he saves people, though I have few problems with Superman being a Christ Figure, albeit an indirect one. I much prefer The Kents teaching him his values VS Jor-El sending him to Earth to save humanity, though both are pretty cool interpretations of the character. Being a Christ Figure though...just makes him a Christ Figure, which is a literary archetype. It doesn't actually make him Jesus. There's this tendency for people to rail against Superman as a Christ Figure because "I don't want him to be Jesus!" I don't think half those people know what a Christ Figure is.


G, I don't want him to be a christ-like figure because it's constricting and boring. He needs to have feet of clay and make mistakes. Making him some saviour derails the character by forcing him to try to be a 'good example' instead of a guy who stops bullets and rescues innocent people from not so innocent people. I want him to be a tuned up version of us.

Personally, I can't identify with a saviour but I can identify with a really nice guy who is trying to do the right thing but sometimes loses it. Someone with a full depth of emotion that allows him to be presented as three dimensional.

[El Payaso]

That is fine, but Superman Returns quality it is a matter of opinion. Money is not a matter of opinion, it is a statistic and in essence it becomes a fact.

Then again these forums are about opinions. It they were about facts then we wouldn't need them.

We aren't getting a Superman sequel because it didn't meet projections. So while you can enjoy Superman Returns, you'll never be able to see a continuation because of what the studios care about. Money.

This is where we meet extraordinary paradox.

If Superman Returns were a Transformers-like movie, it would have made tons of money.

If it made tons of money, I would have a continuation.

So I wouldn't have had one movie I like but two movies I think are crap. But at least they're two, right?

I don't see the point in having a continuation of something you didn't like. I, yes, much rather have 1 good movie than 2 crappy sequels.

[Christmas]

My older brother commented to me after leaving the theater after seeing SR, that while he really liked it, it felt like a closed film, the final chapter of something. He isn't a fan of the Donnor films or anything and probably hasn't seen them since he was 12 or 13. He's 27 now, actually today his birthday.

[GreenKToo]

They now have three writers on Lantern, they are really doing their best to get it right. Sounds great. Reads well. Should be good.

What WB needs and most likely is looking for, is a director that will be the face of Superman. A young dynamic, good looking guy who can sell the product he is directing. He'll be accessible to the fans and he'll understand then but go at the project with ferocity. He'll be able to take direction for the Execs but give the mythos his own spin. Interesting.

In nerd translation, what McG is doing for Terminator: Salvation right now. Makes one wonder. He almost had it before. ( I know your not saying him)

NO.. it's not.

It was an invention of Donner. Donner didn't create the character. Siegel and Shuster did and the Christ analogy wasn't their doing.

And I'm assuming your first exposure to the character was the movie but the character existed for decades before that film.

I want the character to return to being a tuned up man and not a christ-like saviour.
I agree. He is from Krypton but was raised by a middle American farm family. He experienced life on earth growing up as a small child, teenager, then into a man, with all the ups and downs that come with it.

I could see him having a God complex if he came to Earth AFTER he was grown into a Man, but since he has spent the vast majority of his life on Earth, I cant see it. I'd like to see him have some slight faults. sure.

[Daredevil_2003]

My older brother commented to me after leaving the theater after seeing SR, that while he really liked it, it felt like a closed film, the final chapter of something. He isn't a fan of the Donnor films or anything and probably hasn't seen them since he was 12 or 13. He's 27 now, actually today his birthday.It kinda does. You get the feeling that a lot of stuff has gone down since Superman II, and not just Supes leaving the planet. If that makes sense.

I personally hope it is the final chapter of the Donner series, I'd like to leave all those events in between and anything after SR to the imagination and move forward with a new take.

[NotFadeAway]

Superman: Secret Origins is really worrying me. It seems like this is the last step into DC taking Superman right back to the Silver Age/Donner years.

And that hurts the chances of seeing a Superman movie thats falls in line with Superman:TAS and Superman: Birthright. Those takes on the character don't deserve to be thrown out the window for Kryptonian Jesus Superman. Hell, don't even get me started on how DC is screwing over the character of Wally West and his fans.

Those versions of the character DESERVE a live action movie. The only live action take on post-crisis Superman was Lois and Clark, and hey, thats just not fair in the slightest.

I said this to another hype member, and it might sound childish, but the silver age Donner fans have had five movies. I think the fans of the post-crisis takes on Superman deserve a movie. It's not fair to go right back and make a Donner-esque movie again.

[Ita-KalEl]

My older brother commented to me after leaving the theater after seeing SR, that while he really liked it, it felt like a closed film, the final chapter of something. He isn't a fan of the Donnor films or anything and probably hasn't seen them since he was 12 or 13. He's 27 now, actually today his birthday.

My younger brother said that it was one of the most boring movie ever seen.

[El Payaso]

Ah, brothers...

[BATZARRO WWD]

My older brother commented to me after leaving the theater after seeing SR, that while he really liked it, it felt like a closed film, the final chapter of something. He isn't a fan of the Donnor films or anything and probably hasn't seen them since he was 12 or 13. He's 27 now, actually today his birthday.

I do feel it could very well be a self contained story. Wasn't the end like, "get on with your life, Superman, your continuous attempts to get Lois back are irrelevant because she's essentially already married? I mean, for a direct comparison, look a X-Men 1. It seriously hinted at a sequel, and was already laying the fundation for it, with it's "it's not the end, but rather the beggining" ending. Irregardless of how one might feel about Returns, It wasn't exactly hinting at unresolved plots the sequel would adress.

[Webhead2006]

yea it probably wont matter in a couple more years we will probably see dc do another reboot to supes again. How many reboots for supes has there been since the bryne reboot in the 80s?

[SuperDaniel]

Dc keeps stepping back with Superman when it is in desperate need to move forward. That's why I stopped reading comics.

[FlawlessVictory]

Exactly, which is why I think when there is significant news to break they will be the ones to do it. They have been way too quiet when in comes to Superman which leads me to believe they have some kind of agreement with WB or their source at least

I don't know, that's an odd way of looking at it. Because things have been so quiet, that means major news will break soon? What do you exactly think is going on? That secretly there is a whole crew working on the next film? :woot: Sorry, but I think you're looking way deeper into this than what is actually there. I don't think LR is saying anything because there is nothing to say.

Ockham's Razor. :word:

[Superark]

I don't know, that's an odd way of looking at it. Because things have been so quiet, that means major news will break soon? What do you exactly think is going on? That secretly there is a whole crew working on the next film? :woot: Sorry, but I think you're looking way deeper into this than what is actually there. I don't think LR is saying anything because there is nothing to say.

Ockham's Razor. :word:


I never said they would break news soon. :huh:

But I do think they will be the ones who will break news when there is something concrete.

Maybe I am looking too much into it. But they have been way too quiet about Superman and never talked about all the numerous Superman rumors that have popped up after they posted Routh/Superman/Levitz story. Literally every other site has discussed those rumors except LR. I find that suspicious and makes me believe they either know something or will be the first ones to be given something when WB has it sorted out.

Over analyzing, yea probably, but that's just what I think.

[FlawlessVictory]

^I just don't get the impression that WB is THAT interested in doing another Superman film in the next couple of years. Too risky. Doesn't Horn just have two more years left? Does he really want to be known as the person who couldn't get Superman absolutely right two times during his tenure? And you know they are probably still wrestling with a clear vision for this franchise. I don't think he or the studio NEEDS Superman at this point and will probably be content just putting it on the backburner for at least a few more years. The risk isn't probably worth the reward at this point.

I'd be really, really surprised if we get a Superman movie before 2012.

[Superark]

I agree with your assessment that WB doesn't need a Superman film, but that doesn't mean they don't want one. I'm sure they do!

I think it's either 2011 or no go for a number of years

[Webhead2006]

Yea they probably want to have another supes, but with all the issues they seem to have with deciding on what is the best way to go about things. So right now its like gl is the higher priority then batman 3 when nolan gets around to it. Then maybe if gl does well next year we can see some more serious movement going for flash and/or ww.

[The Guard]

I get the impression that WB wants another Superman movie, but that it isn't one of their top priorities at the moment.

The Christ Figure stuff IS part of Superman's character now, for better or worse.

G, I don't want him to be a christ-like figure because it's constricting and boring.

Being a Christ Figure does not mean "Exactly like Jesus".

A Christ figure is a literary technique that authors use to draw allusions between their characters and the biblical Jesus Christ. More loosely, the Christ Figure is a spiritual or prophetic character who parallels Jesus, or other spiritual or prophetic figures.

In general, a character should display more than one correspondence with the story of Jesus Christ as depicted in the Bible. For instance, the character might display one or more of the following traits: performance of miracles, manifestation of divine qualities, healing others, display loving kindness and forgiveness, fight for justice, being guided by the spirit of the character's father, die and rise again. Christ figures are often martyrs, sacrificing themselves for causes larger than themselves. In postmodern literature, the resurrection theme is often abandoned, leaving us with the image of a martyr sacrificing himself for a greater good. It is common to see Christ figures displayed in a manner suggestive of crucifixion as well; this technique is more noticeable in films than in literature.

He needs to have feet of clay and make mistakes. Making him some saviour derails the character by forcing him to try to be a 'good example' instead of a guy who stops bullets and rescues innocent people from not so innocent people. I want him to be a tuned up version of us.

If you think Superman hasn't been, or should be a "good example", you've missed a massive part of the character over the years.

He isn't some random person who fights crime. He's an inspirational superbeing who had dedicated himself to saving lives and inspiring humanity. Now, he need not want to inspire humanity right away, or be comfortable with being an inspirational figure, but that needs to be part of his character.

Personally, I can't identify with a saviour but I can identify with a really nice guy who is trying to do the right thing but sometimes loses it. Someone with a full depth of emotion that allows him to be presented as three dimensional.

I can't identify with Superman at all, but I can certainly understand him on an intellectual level.

SUPERMAN RETURNS presented Superman as a Christ Figure, and if anything, he made too MANY mistakes, so that's hardly an argument against using the element. Where is it written that someone with Christ Figure elements cannot make mistakes? Or that one cannot be three dimensional?

[DavidTyler]

I get the impression that WB wants another Superman movie, but that it isn't one of their top priorities at the moment.

The Christ Figure stuff IS part of Superman's character now, for better or worse.



Being a Christ Figure does not mean "Exactly like Jesus".

A Christ figure is a literary technique that authors use to draw allusions between their characters and the biblical Jesus Christ. More loosely, the Christ Figure is a spiritual or prophetic character who parallels Jesus, or other spiritual or prophetic figures.

In general, a character should display more than one correspondence with the story of Jesus Christ as depicted in the Bible. For instance, the character might display one or more of the following traits: performance of miracles, manifestation of divine qualities, healing others, display loving kindness and forgiveness, fight for justice, being guided by the spirit of the character's father, die and rise again. Christ figures are often martyrs, sacrificing themselves for causes larger than themselves. In postmodern literature, the resurrection theme is often abandoned, leaving us with the image of a martyr sacrificing himself for a greater good. It is common to see Christ figures displayed in a manner suggestive of crucifixion as well; this technique is more noticeable in films than in literature.

Well, if the performance of miracles is all that's needed to be christ-like .. then just about every character in comix is christ-like ... including people like Shadow Thief and Black Adam.... Not what you're trying to say?

Ok.. let's take another ... displaying loving kindness? What character doesn't display that at some point.

I'm not going to dispute each point in that paragraph, suffice to say that I think being Christ-Like literally means being divine and holy. I don't want divinity from Superman .. that would make him impossible to relate to.

If you think Superman hasn't been, or should be a "good example", you've missed a massive part of the character over the years.

He isn't some random person who fights crime. He's an inspirational superbeing who had dedicated himself to saving lives and inspiring humanity. Now, he need not want to inspire humanity right away, or be comfortable with being an inspirational figure, but that needs to be part of his character.

He's inspirational because he saves lives...but to make it his job to inspire humanity ..... I'm sorry .. it's just unrealistic an limiting in my opinion. ... and boring. I want him to be a good man but I want him to be free to be a man. I don't want him afraid to speak his mind or to get angry or even afraid to make jokes. I want George Reeve's Superman not Singer's. I don't want Superman to be aloof. I want him to be a man before he's anything else.

As to being a good example... he can do that without being a messiah. I'm a good example to those around me .. and I screw up often and I make people happy a bit of the time .. and I try to show those around me that you can still be who you are and be a good person. You don't have to be perfect..


I can't identify with Superman at all, but I can certainly understand him on an intellectual level.

Don't you remember that feeling when you were a child and you watched Superman fly and felt excited as if it were you flying? And then went zooming around the yard trying to relive that feeling? That's like what I'm talking about. As a kid you identified with a man who could fly .. not because you could fly but because you imagined what it was like and made it your own sensation. This is what I want in Superman. Only .. I don't want to just fly, I want to feel his emotions. I want to feel the excitement of the wind blowing past my face as I soar but I also want to share in his anger. I can't identify with some Christ-like saviour. I can identify with a cop or a fireman risking all to save a child from a burning building. Don't you want the same thing? Are you willing to say .. "Hey, I don't really get into the character as a person"? Don't you want more than that?

SUPERMAN RETURNS presented Superman as a Christ Figure, and if anything, he made too MANY mistakes, so that's hardly an argument against using the element. Where is it written that someone with Christ Figure elements cannot make mistakes? Or that one cannot be three dimensional?

And Singer's attempt at making him a Christ figure was so ham fisted (I mean what wasn't ham-fisted in that film?!!) that his Christ/Saviour was all surface. He's all posturing with no real substance. 'I hear the world crying for a saviour' ( I know it's not a direct quote)... a little presumptious and a bit egotistical of him, don't you think?

[Showtime]

Superman: Secret Origins is really worrying me. It seems like this is the last step into DC taking Superman right back to the Silver Age/Donner years.

And that hurts the chances of seeing a Superman movie thats falls in line with Superman:TAS and Superman: Birthright. Those takes on the character don't deserve to be thrown out the window for Kryptonian Jesus Superman. Hell, don't even get me started on how DC is screwing over the character of Wally West and his fans.

Those versions of the character DESERVE a live action movie. The only live action take on post-crisis Superman was Lois and Clark, and hey, thats just not fair in the slightest.

I said this to another hype member, and it might sound childish, but the silver age Donner fans have had five movies. I think the fans of the post-crisis takes on Superman deserve a movie. It's not fair to go right back and make a Donner-esque movie again.

They have been taking steps towards a new orign for Superman for the last several years. Said origin will cancel out Birthright or elements of it.

I agree with your assessment that WB doesn't need a Superman film, but that doesn't mean they don't want one. I'm sure they do!

I think it's either 2011 or no go for a number of years

They want one, but the right one. Horn came out and said they wanted one. Wanting and needing are different.

[FaT_tONle]

^I just don't get the impression that WB is THAT interested in doing another Superman film in the next couple of years. Too risky. Doesn't Horn just have two more years left? Does he really want to be known as the person who couldn't get Superman absolutely right two times during his tenure? And you know they are probably still wrestling with a clear vision for this franchise. I don't think he or the studio NEEDS Superman at this point and will probably be content just putting it on the backburner for at least a few more years. The risk isn't probably worth the reward at this point.

I'd be really, really surprised if we get a Superman movie before 2012.

When will it be time to start thinking about folding these boards... no reason to keep these boards if they don't announce anything midway through next year IMO.

[Showtime]

Lets not get all melodramtic. They wouldn't fold the Superman boards anyway.

[The Guard]

Well, if the performance of miracles is all that's needed to be christ-like .. then just about every character in comix is christ-like ... including
people like Shadow Thief and Black Adam.... Not what you're trying to say?

No. I'm pretty sure I very clearly pointed out what I was trying to say. Obviously I am not saying that anyone with one or even two elements of a Christ Figure is a perfect example of one.

In general, a character should display more than one correspondence with the story of Jesus Christ as depicted in the Bible. For instance, the character might display one or more of the following traits: performance of miracles, manifestation of divine qualities, healing others, display loving kindness and forgiveness, fight for justice, being guided by the spirit of the character's father, die and rise again. Christ figures are often martyrs, sacrificing themselves for causes larger than themselves. In postmodern literature, the resurrection theme is often abandoned, leaving us with the image of a martyr sacrificing himself for a greater good. It is common to see Christ figures displayed in a manner suggestive of crucifixion as well; this technique is more noticeable in films than in literature.

Ok.. let's take another ... displaying loving kindness? What character doesn't display that at some point.

A lot of characters do, but you have to look at it in context. Being loving and kind every once in a while does not necessarily a Christ like character make. Being loving and kind all the time does. As such, there are many instances of Christ like behavior throughout literature, but while there are quite a few Christ Figures in literature and film, not everyone who displays one or two elements of Christ is a perfect representation of this archetype.

I'm not going to dispute each point in that paragraph, suffice to say that I think being Christ-Like literally means being divine and holy. I don't want divinity from Superman .. that would make him impossible to relate to.

Christ like and Christ Figure are not the same thing.

Christ like, in the religious or even social sense, is usually when someone simply lives according to the moral and spiritual teachings of Jesus. It is not when someone is actually divine or holy. And absolutely no one is asking for Superman to be divine and holy anyway...where do you even get that?

He's inspirational because he saves lives...but to make it his job to inspire humanity ..... I'm sorry .. it's just unrealistic an limiting in my opinion. ... and boring. I want him to be a good man but I want him to be free to be a man.

So men aren't allowed to inspire? I didn't say he HAS to be that. I would much prefer he choose to be. Unrealistic and limiting?

Let's not go there...because nothing in Christ Figure inherently limits Superman. He doesn't have to be "perfect" to be a Christ Figure, and very Christ Figures are.

I don't want him afraid to speak his mind or to get angry or even afraid to make jokes. I want George Reeve's Superman not Singer's. I don't want Superman to be aloof. I want him to be a man before he's anything else.

Again, there's nothing about Christ Figures to suggest that if Superman was one, he would not be able to be a human, relatable character. However, much of the point behind Superman's character is that this is a man who is capable of being SUPER before anything else, even though he has many of the same flaws we do. He is capable of rising above his inherent weak points and flaws.

As to being a good example... he can do that without being a messiah. I'm a good example to those around me .. and I screw up often and I make people happy a bit of the time .. and I try to show those around me that you can still be who you are and be a good person. You don't have to be perfect.

I don't recall anyone saying Superman should be a messiah. A Christ Figure can be a messiah, but does not need to be.

Don't you remember that feeling when you were a child and you watched Superman fly and felt excited as if it were you flying? And then went zooming around the yard trying to relive that feeling? That's like what I'm talking about. As a kid you identified with a man who could fly .. not because you could fly but because you imagined what it was like and made it your own sensation. This is what I want in Superman. Only .. I don't want to just fly, I want to feel his emotions. I want to feel the excitement of the wind blowing past my face as I soar but I also want to share in his anger.

Of course, but as much as I'd love to pretend that we somehow wouldn't be able to experience Superman's emotions simply because he's a Christ Figure in some capacity...

I can't identify with some Christ-like saviour.

So you can't identify with:

Someone with great power, who is able to essentially perform miracles
Someone who fights for justice or what is right
Someone who is good, and chooses to do good, for no personal gain
Someone who is willing to sacrifice themselves for others

Really? Because those things are at the core of the Christ Figure over the years, and those things sound an awful lot like major elements of Superman to me.

I can identify with a cop or a fireman risking all to save a child from a burning building. Don't you want the same thing? Are you willing to say .. "Hey, I don't really get into the character as a person"? Don't you want more than that?[/quote[

Frankly, I have the imagination to relate to any character that is well portrayed and fleshed out.

You are essentially, with your statements, implying that somehow Superman being Christ Like would make him incredibly unrelatable. I disagree wholeheartedly. I meet Christ Like people every day, and I identify with them just perfectly. The fact that he's Christ Like on a larger scale isn't going to phase me as an audience member.

[quote]And Singer's attempt at making him a Christ figure was so ham fisted (I mean what wasn't ham-fisted in that film?!!) that his Christ/Saviour was all surface. He's all posturing with no real substance. 'I hear the world crying for a saviour' ( I know it's not a direct quote)... a little presumptious and a bit egotistical of him, don't you think?

No.

If it's true, it's true.

If he hears people calling out for someone to save them, it is not presumptuous of him to say so. And I don't see an ounce of ego...I see a man who wishes he didn't carry the burden he does.

He's Superman. His role is that of savior.

His role has always been that of savior.

He was simply recognizing the burden of that, as Superman has done constantly over the years in the comics.

[SuperDaniel]

It's ok for him to be a saviour. But not because of some prophecy, Father who sent him to earth to save humanity or whatever religious tone. He's a saviour because...eh...he saves people, inspire them to do good.

[dark_b]

In nerd translation, what McG is doing for Terminator: Salvation right now.MCG is doing a ''Favreau'' from last year.

he talks like him at comicon,moves like him. the difference is that he IMO doesnt know where the line is.the talk about teh boobs was so imature IMO. calling Bale on the phone so that he can hear fans screaming. :o

make a good movie and people will love you. :hehe:

[DavidTyler]

It's ok for him to be a saviour. But not because of some prophecy, Father who sent him to earth to save humanity or whatever religious tone. He's a saviour because...eh...he saves people, inspire them to do good.


Guard, this is the approach I'm looking for.

And you do present a solid argument but I'm afraid that, by the criteria you presented to define the term, even I qualify as christ-like... something I would never claim.

Maybe you're presenting the same argument as SD but I'm just not seeing it.

BTW, Guard, it's good to have you back in a solid discussion. You're always insightful and though provoking.

And Daniel .. you just plain rock. If you lived up here we'd probably hang out.

[JackIvyGB]

Weirdly enough, while watching the original Superman films, I never felt while watching the movie that they were trying to make deliberate religious references. Obviously there are the parallels you can draw with Superman and Moses and Jesus, but past Jor-El's speech, it's more of Moses' story, with his parents putting him in a basket and floating him away, saying "I hope this works out!" From the point when he hits earth and onward, I really didn't get any feeling that they were purposefully making biblical references.

With Reurns, however, I felt as though they were deliberately shoving it down our collective throats. Recreating the image of Mary and Jesus with Clark and his mom when he crashes back on earth, Lois constantly calling him "savior" (really, it sounded way to forced. If any of you guys were in that situation, wouldn't you have just said "the wolrd doesn't need a hero"), forming a crucified pose as he falls back to earth, and even a Davinci Code-ian story of the "saviour" having a child. Even in the special features, Bryan Singer says that at one point he and the writers said "are we going to let it slide, or are we going to play up the Jesus angle?" And they decided to go for the direct references.

I think it really hindered the film, and this is coming from a guy who goes to church every Sunday!

[FlawlessVictory]

^Agreed. I love how the defenders of Singer and his Superman film are so quick to point out that the film is so great because of his expert use of subtlety. Yet meanwhile, Singer is knocking us over the head with a sledgehammer with all the religious references/comparisons he was making.

But yea, Singer is the subtle one. :whatever:

[The Guard]

Guard, this is the approach I'm looking for.

That's the approach I'm looking for, too.

And you do present a solid argument but I'm afraid that, by the criteria you presented to define the term, even I qualify as christ-like... something I would never claim.

I don't want Superman to be Christ like (I don't want him turning the other cheek, I want him to hit things). I think he can work as a Christ Figure, though. A lot of that is inherent in who he is, and who he has always been.

Again, they are two completely different things. Christ like is more or less a lifestyle, and a behavior. Christ Figure is a literary term. While they can intersect, they do not always.

Neo, for instance, is a Christ Figure because of his ability to perform miracles and "heal" almost to the point of resurrection, and his savior and sacrifice elements, but I wouldn't begin to call him Christ like, because he goes around kicking the crap out of people.

[Dotten]

Been away for some weeks. Anything new or still dead in the water? :)

[SuperDaniel]

Weirdly enough, while watching the original Superman films, I never felt while watching the movie that they were trying to make deliberate religious references. Obviously there are the parallels you can draw with Superman and Moses and Jesus, but past Jor-El's speech, it's more of Moses' story, with his parents putting him in a basket and floating him away, saying "I hope this works out!" From the point when he hits earth and onward, I really didn't get any feeling that they were purposefully making biblical references.

With Reurns, however, I felt as though they were deliberately shoving it down our collective throats. Recreating the image of Mary and Jesus with Clark and his mom when he crashes back on earth, Lois constantly calling him "savior" (really, it sounded way to forced. If any of you guys were in that situation, wouldn't you have just said "the wolrd doesn't need a hero"), forming a crucified pose as he falls back to earth, and even a Davinci Code-ian story of the "saviour" having a child. Even in the special features, Bryan Singer says that at one point he and the writers said "are we going to let it slide, or are we going to play up the Jesus angle?" And they decided to go for the direct references.

I think it really hindered the film, and this is coming from a guy who goes to church every Sunday!
Lets not forget dying, resurecting, somebody finding his "tomb" empty. etc....

It was pure Jesus and it sucked, IMO. SR was just total crap to me, when it comes to a Superman story...

[Webhead2006]

Been away for some weeks. Anything new or still dead in the water? :)
Pretty much still dead in the water. Supes is likely as we all hate it probably not going anywhere for awhile.

[BATZARRO WWD]

Weirdly enough, while watching the original Superman films, I never felt while watching the movie that they were trying to make deliberate religious references. Obviously there are the parallels you can draw with Superman and Moses and Jesus, but past Jor-El's speech, it's more of Moses' story, with his parents putting him in a basket and floating him away, saying "I hope this works out!" From the point when he hits earth and onward, I really didn't get any feeling that they were purposefully making biblical references.

With Reurns, however, I felt as though they were deliberately shoving it down our collective throats. Recreating the image of Mary and Jesus with Clark and his mom when he crashes back on earth, Lois constantly calling him "savior" (really, it sounded way to forced. If any of you guys were in that situation, wouldn't you have just said "the wolrd doesn't need a hero"), forming a crucified pose as he falls back to earth, and even a Davinci Code-ian story of the "saviour" having a child. Even in the special features, Bryan Singer says that at one point he and the writers said "are we going to let it slide, or are we going to play up the Jesus angle?" And they decided to go for the direct references.

I think it really hindered the film, and this is coming from a guy who goes to church every Sunday!

Yeah, part of the problem is(and I'll try to remember not to carry on with the Returns talk) that showing Superman as a Messianic figure would at least work if the audience saw it from within his perspective. Insteald, this film shows Superman from afar. You get Lois' perspective, and Lex's an the media's and instead of the character piece it should be, it ends up a movie about how people feel about Superman.

If i remember, Batman 89 started like this. Batman was a figure that everyone would refference, but not really a lead character until Vicky Vale discovered his secret. But I feel Returns never really put Superman "front and center" as it where, so the effect of such messianism is sort of wasted.

Look, I like my christianism and all, but I could do without it on my Superman. There are paralels you can draw, and all, but the character's own mythology are enought in my case.

[JackIvyGB]

Yeah, it definitely abused alot of great imagery that would have been really useful in a "Death of/Rebirth of/Doomsday" film (ie: IV needle not going in, defibrilator blowing up, Lois trying to get in the hospital, crowds outside the hospital, Martha not being able to get to him without giving away who he really was, etc.). Fortunately, with a new series starting over/rebooting, if they get to a "Doomsday" film, the use of those images won't sting of repetitiveness as much as they would have had the SR series continued.

I just came from an art class where a female friend of mine and I had a pretty decent discussion about how a new Superman film could be done and perhaps done well.

Clark, while not so goodie 2 shoes it's nauseating, was raised by farm folk in the midwest. He was raised by loving parents, taught that love is the answer (not in a hippy way.), hold the door for people, respect elders, mind manners, despite his powers there could always be someone out there bigger and badder in one way or another, don't do drugs or drink, etc. All the stuff good parents teach, very Rockwell. He obeyed his parents and is a great kid. His dad dies, and it shows him not everything is always perfect, but it doesn't necessarily change who he is at his core. However, it's when he gets to the big city that he discovers that "love is the answer" may not always be true, but just because that's the case it doesn't make it a lie.

Metropolis wouldn't be dark like Gotham, but I wouldn't portray it as squeeky clean either. However, whereas Gotham has a street level crime problem, Metro would be more high class white collar corporate crime and how that trickles down. Show that Lex basically has his hands in every bbusiness in the city. There'd still be muggings and robberies for Supes to stop, but not like how it's Gotham's predominate problem next to the mob and freaks. When superman arrives, he sees he has work to do. Metro is a jaded city, especially with corporate types basically running it. Lexcorp is basically branded on everything. Lex sees himself as the city's hero with all his inventions, despite how he does business. I picture it like the "I just cured cancer" scene in Superman Doomsday. Sure, he did it, but look: He's going to charge you billions and make it a lifelong treatment when it could have been one shot. He's like evil Tony Stark. Well, maybe not so obviously evil, at least not to himself. He definitely makes sure it benefits him most.

When Clark arrives in Metro, he is about 25ish. Fresh out of college. Not ever living anywhere but Smallville, he still has a sort of peachy view of the world. He says hi to people he doesn't know and they just look at him funny. He asks for directions and people tell him to get a map. His "apparent clumsiness" comes from the fact that he's never lived in a place so crowded where people just bump into you constantly to get where they're going, and he's not used to it. He doesn't want people to hurt themselves trying to just ram past him and bounce off either, so he's always trying to compensate for them with nowhere to move, hence the tripping and clumsiness. And trust me, Metro would be crowded, especially in the business district where the Planet building is located. He's not intimidated by the people persay, but by how they act in a way he's not used to. (He'll obviously get used to though. It'd only be an obvious thing in the first film. By then, Clark will have gotten more used to it, but the mood of the people would also start to change with the appearance of this "light at the end of the tunnel" sort of hero in the city) Superman, with his appearance, also gets a sort of "cold shoulder, thinking that his bright costume and cheerful/personable attitude would win them over, but it only irks them, until by the end of the film they start to come around. Sure,some people will still tell the big blue boy scout to get lost after he grabs a falling bag of groceries for them even though they could have got it themselves, but he'll just smile,shake his head and tell them to have a nice day too as he flies off, regarding it as one of their endearing charms.

As for Clark's style, it wouldn't change too much, as people still where shirts and ties to work, but at the same time, he isn't working at a business firm. For the first shirt rip, you want the iconic button bursting shirt rip, but after that, I'd change it up some. Fleece sweater under a sport coat, vests, as long as his physique is still hidden and it looks like he could where it to work. Ithink it'd be cool to change up how he gets out of his clothes to become Superman. Iconic as it is, the classic button burst could get old depending on how often it's used. I also think that Clark's hair needs to stay similar to how it was in SR, regular Clark Kent
wise anyway. It wasn't emo-style, but it did hide more of his face than it would when he's in Supes mode, which is good. As Superman, his hair shouldn't be so Crisco-tastic. A little more natural, not as stencil cut, would be great. I know Tom Welling has no chance of being in the film and I'm not promoting him in the least, but hair like this would be perfect IMO:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/JackIvyGB/welling-sman1-1.jpg

It looks natural, especially the curl, just a loose piece of hair. (The suit is a different issue).

The film shouldn't look dated. Use all the filters you want, just don't make it look dated. Both SR and Dark Knight had blue-ish filters. Did Dark Knight feel dated?

More later. Time for Geology class :woot:

[RachelDawes]

I'm glad to see so many other people also don't like Superman's Christ parallels to be so obvious.

I would like Supes to be a baby sent to Earth not to be a great example, but simply to survive. The Kents raise him and endow him with great values and he goes on to use his powers to help and inspire others, but that's it. No crucifixion poses, no resurrections, no Jor-El telling Kal-El he has to show humans the way, etc. If that makes Superman a Christ Figure so be it, just keep it subtle.

ETA: JackIvy, your ideas are fabulous. :up:

[Webhead2006]

some nice ideas.

[GreenKToo]

I'm glad to see so many other people also don't like Superman's Christ parallels to be so obvious.

I would like Supes to be a baby sent to Earth not to be a great example, but simply to survive. The Kents raise him and endow him with great values and he goes on to use his powers to help and inspire others, but that's it. No crucifixion poses, no resurrections, no Jor-El telling Kal-El he has to show humans the way, etc. If that makes Superman a Christ Figure so be it, just keep it subtle.

ETA: JackIvy, your ideas are fabulous. :up:
:applaud

[wellsy]

JackIvy, that actually comes across pretty well. You've put some thought into that, and I must admit I like what I see.

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, it definitely abused alot of great imagery that would have been really useful in a "Death of/Rebirth of/Doomsday" film (ie: IV needle not going in, defibrilator blowing up, Lois trying to get in the hospital, crowds outside the hospital, Martha not being able to get to him without giving away who he really was, etc.). Fortunately, with a new series starting over/rebooting, if they get to a "Doomsday" film, the use of those images won't sting of repetitiveness as much as they would have had the SR series continued.

I just came from an art class where a female friend of mine and I had a pretty decent discussion about how a new Superman film could be done and perhaps done well.

Clark, while not so goodie 2 shoes it's nauseating, was raised by farm folk in the midwest. He was raised by loving parents, taught that love is the answer (not in a hippy way.), hold the door for people, respect elders, mind manners, despite his powers there could always be someone out there bigger and badder in one way or another, don't do drugs or drink, etc. All the stuff good parents teach, very Rockwell. He obeyed his parents and is a great kid. His dad dies, and it shows him not everything is always perfect, but it doesn't necessarily change who he is at his core. However, it's when he gets to the big city that he discovers that "love is the answer" may not always be true, but just because that's the case it doesn't make it a lie.

Metropolis wouldn't be dark like Gotham, but I wouldn't portray it as squeeky clean either. However, whereas Gotham has a street level crime problem, Metro would be more high class white collar corporate crime and how that trickles down. Show that Lex basically has his hands in every bbusiness in the city. There'd still be muggings and robberies for Supes to stop, but not like how it's Gotham's predominate problem next to the mob and freaks. When superman arrives, he sees he has work to do. Metro is a jaded city, especially with corporate types basically running it. Lexcorp is basically branded on everything. Lex sees himself as the city's hero with all his inventions, despite how he does business. I picture it like the "I just cured cancer" scene in Superman Doomsday. Sure, he did it, but look: He's going to charge you billions and make it a lifelong treatment when it could have been one shot. He's like evil Tony Stark. Well, maybe not so obviously evil, at least not to himself. He definitely makes sure it benefits him most.

When Clark arrives in Metro, he is about 25ish. Fresh out of college. Not ever living anywhere but Smallville, he still has a sort of peachy view of the world. He says hi to people he doesn't know and they just look at him funny. He asks for directions and people tell him to get a map. His "apparent clumsiness" comes from the fact that he's never lived in a place so crowded where people just bump into you constantly to get where they're going, and he's not used to it. He doesn't want people to hurt themselves trying to just ram past him and bounce off either, so he's always trying to compensate for them with nowhere to move, hence the tripping and clumsiness. And trust me, Metro would be crowded, especially in the business district where the Planet building is located. He's not intimidated by the people persay, but by how they act in a way he's not used to. (He'll obviously get used to though. It'd only be an obvious thing in the first film. By then, Clark will have gotten more used to it, but the mood of the people would also start to change with the appearance of this "light at the end of the tunnel" sort of hero in the city) Superman, with his appearance, also gets a sort of "cold shoulder, thinking that his bright costume and cheerful/personable attitude would win them over, but it only irks them, until by the end of the film they start to come around. Sure,some people will still tell the big blue boy scout to get lost after he grabs a falling bag of groceries for them even though they could have got it themselves, but he'll just smile,shake his head and tell them to have a nice day too as he flies off, regarding it as one of their endearing charms.

As for Clark's style, it wouldn't change too much, as people still where shirts and ties to work, but at the same time, he isn't working at a business firm. For the first shirt rip, you want the iconic button bursting shirt rip, but after that, I'd change it up some. Fleece sweater under a sport coat, vests, as long as his physique is still hidden and it looks like he could where it to work. Ithink it'd be cool to change up how he gets out of his clothes to become Superman. Iconic as it is, the classic button burst could get old depending on how often it's used. I also think that Clark's hair needs to stay similar to how it was in SR, regular Clark Kent
wise anyway. It wasn't emo-style, but it did hide more of his face than it would when he's in Supes mode, which is good. As Superman, his hair shouldn't be so Crisco-tastic. A little more natural, not as stencil cut, would be great. I know Tom Welling has no chance of being in the film and I'm not promoting him in the least, but hair like this would be perfect IMO:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/JackIvyGB/welling-sman1-1.jpg

It looks natural, especially the curl, just a loose piece of hair. (The suit is a different issue).

The film shouldn't look dated. Use all the filters you want, just don't make it look dated. Both SR and Dark Knight had blue-ish filters. Did Dark Knight feel dated?

More later. Time for Geology class :woot:
As much as I can't stand Tom Welling and would abhor him being Superman, that's a very well done manip.

[DavidTyler]

JackIvy, the only thing I would change from your synopsis is to not have him come directly from college but, instead, to have him decide to explore the world a little before he comes to Metropolis and become who he becomes.

it's really the only part of Birthright I liked.

[GreenKToo]

Wow is it quiet in here or what.

[X Knight]

meow.....meow.....:meow:

[Mostpowerful]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2805495650_edcb58c648.jpg



:(

[Matt]

Are we posting synopsises? Well, since you guys insist...I present...

THE BEST SUPERMAN SYNOPSIS EVER POSTED ON THE HYPE!

Act One:

The movie would open with a futuristic battle sequence. Think Terminator 2 Judgment Day meets World War I. You have soldiers in trenches shooting at one another with laser guns, futuristic planes bombing these trenches. The camera slowly pans away from the battlefield and off in the distance you can see a large sci-fi esque city. Kandor, the capitol of Krypton Think a much more grand, much more beautiful version of LA from Blade Runner. The camera slowly travels through the city, before entering a large temple type building. This is the capitol building. In here we meet Jor-El. H e is a respected scientist. Here he is urging the ruling council of Krypton to enter a truce with the rebel General Zod. He informs them that the bombs being used in the war are radiating the planet which is seeping to its core. The planet will be destroyed if they do not stop. The council rejects Jor-El's findings, claiming that the Kryptonian super computer Brainiac, which Jor-El built negates his findings.

From there we see Jor-El's family estate. We meet his wife Lara. He vents that he is unable to convince them. Jor-El, knowing that he cannot save himself, dedicates himself to his work. A brief montage of Jor-El slaving over a machine, in a lab he keeps in his estate. During this he is seen neglecting his health, hygeine etc. He is obsessing over it. The only thing he makes time for outside of his machine, is his wife Lara and his baby son, Kal-El. It is clear Jor-El loves his family very much.

At the end of the montage, we see Kandor is in celebration. Parties in the streets, the citizens in uproars of joy. The reason is revealed to be because The war with Zod has ended and Zod has been inprisoned in the Phantom Zone.

However, the celebration is interrupted by a sudden Earthquake. It is quick, so most people simply shrug it off. Jor-El, secluded with his family in the estate, however, recognized it for what it really is. The end. He reveals his machine to Lara. It is a small rocket ship. The best he could make in such a small amount of time, but it is able to give Lara and Kal-El a chance at surviving. There is no guarantee that either will get safe passage to anywhere, but it will give them a chance and for Jor-El, that is enough. But not for Lara, she refuses to leave Jor-El. So, they tearfully say goodbye to their son after recording a brief message. Lara covers baby Kal-El with a blanket bearing the El family coat of arms, the traditional Superman \S/ logo. The tremors then start again. They send Kal-El off in his ship and embrace to await their doom as the tremors worsen. We then see Kal-El, speeding away from the planet as it explodes. As we watch Kal-El and the bits of Krypton float off into space...the title comes across the screen..."Superman".

During the opening credits we watch young Kal-El zoom through the solar systems...In a display of Jor-El's genius, each planet he comes upon the computer of his ship scans to see if it is suitable for him, before he finally arrives on Earth...as his ship descends we cut to Smallville, Kansas.

Here we see a truck driving down a lonely country road as it passes the Smallville city limits sign. Population, 600. Not another car in sight. Just cornfields for miles with a small town far off in the distance. We then enter the vehicle. Here we meet Jonathan and Martha Kent. They are discussing the trip they just took. They are on their way back from a doctor. They are unable to conceive children and the doctor confirmed they cannot. It is a very somber, sad time for them. Jonathan tries to reassure Martha, unsuccessfully. However, despite the sadness they are feeling, everything seems very calm...key word, seems. Suddenly something crashes into the ground from the sky, Jonathan swerves to avoid it and runs off the road. He looks at the tire on his truck. The truck is relatively undamaged but stuck in a ditch. Jonathan tries to push it out, while Martha investigates what crashed. All she finds is the shuttle, empty, with Kal-El's blanket. Jonathan continues to struggle with the truck, only to suddenly find it lifted out of the ditch. The camera pans to toddler Kal-El, holding the truck in the air, giggling. Martha rushes over and lifts the baby as he sets the truck back on the ground. There are no words in this scene...an awe-struck Jonathan looks to Martha. The audience can infer by her face and actions towards the baby that she has made up her mind. Jonathan seems like he wants to protest, but also seems to understand the futility of it. Reluctantly, he loads Clark's ship onto the truck and the Kent family sets off towards their farm which could be seen in the distance as they drive away.

We then cut to a montage of the Kents on their farm adjusting to raising a super powered son as he grows up. Just a light hearted little montage. Things like Martha trying to feed baby Clark. She blows on the food to cool it off, baby Clark in his high chair imitates, and his super breath freezes the spoon and food. Playing catch with Jonathan only to launch the ball into the next county. But also normal things, to emphasize that while Clark is different, he was raised and loved like a normal child by the Kents. Show him at church with his parents, playing with his dogs, helping on the farm, etc. We watch him grow during this time.

After the montage, we meet a teenaged Clark Kent, now a senior at Smallville High. During this time, we learn about Clark's life. His relationship with childhood sweetheart Lana Lang, his friendship with Pete Ross who sees himself as bigger and better than being stuck in Smallville (and often teases Clark about being condemned to a life of a farmer). We see his relationship with his parents, which while loving also displays their difficulty to guide Clark through this phase in his life, trying to find who he is and what to do considering his powers. Clark clearly does not understand his place in the world or why he has his powers.

Following the character development sequences of Smallville, the first act climaxes with a tornado that rips through the town. During the tornado Clark first learns he can fly as he pulls a gas station attendant out of the way of the tornado and the explosion of the gas station it causes, flying through the air with the unconscious man. Afterwards, he returns to the farm to see the damage. He flies into the air with his new found ability and looks over the town, seeing the damage he lands, looks to his parents and tells them "I could've done more." For me, this is one of the most important Superman scenes in the film. It perfectly describes Superman's motivations and who he is. He doesn't have a tragic event that shapes him like Spider-Man or Batman...he is simply a good person who wants to help. Pa tries to comfort him, but with little success. It is at this point, he realizes his son is becoming a man, and has to leave the nest. Clark has now found his place in the world and it is helping people.

In the final scene of the first act, Clark says goodbye to his girlfriend and best friend Lana. After dinner takes her out to the Kent fields, tells her that he has to leave and then and shows her he can fly and takes her with him as he flies around Smallville. Another very important scene. It shows how important Lana is to Clark. He shares a very important secret with her because she means that much to him. As they fly however, she realizes that despite her protest, he has to leave.

We then cut to the next day...he says goodbye to his parents, and sets off.

End act one.

[Matt]

Act Two:

Act two opens 12 or 13 years after the Smallville scenes. The camera pans down into a city. A complete contradiction to the small farm town that act one took place in. This is the city of the future. A massive…Metropolis. The camera takes us through the city, we see the L-shaped LexCorp Towers, Centennial Park, and the camera finally stops at the Daily Planet and its large globe on the roof. The camera pans down from the roof to street level where we get our first look at adult Clark, complete with clean cut, hair combed to the side, suit, tie, and glasses. The camera should specifically focus on the fact that like in “Superman Birthright,” while Clark’s eyes are naturally blues (a feature that was prominent in the first act), the glasses manipulate the light to make them appear brown. He goes in to the Daily Planet, here we meet Perry White whom Clark has an interview with. Perry is a grumpy, gruff old news dog. He does not mince words and is rampaging through the Planet hollering at his staff when Clark arrives. Despite his demeanor, it is clear the staff looks up to him. He takes Clark into his office and conducts an interview. During this interview it is revealed how Clark has spent the past 13 years. He spent the first 7 years earning his masters degree in Journalism from the University of Kansas. From there he went to travel the world, writing free lance pieces for various newspapers and magazines.

However during the interview he is very distant as he is using his x-ray vision to watch a woman through the walls of Perry's office. It is his first encounter with Lois Lane, the Planet’s top reporter. She is fiercely yelling at photographer at young, 21 year old photographer Jimmy Olsen over an inadequate picture that he took for her story. She is a dog-eat-dog type person, and yet there is something charming about her to Clark.

Due to his distracted nature, Perry is unimpressed and turns him down for the job. Clark leaves, disappointed. On the way out he sees a truck, out of control on its way towards civilians. Clark steps in front of it and single handedly halts it. As the shocked crowd looks on, Clark hurries off before being identified, leaving behind one massive hand-print on the bumper of the semi.

The next scene he has returned to Smallville for comfort. He expresses to his parents a desire to help and is confused. He doesn't understand how or why he has his powers but he wants to use them for good. Pa Kent discourages this as he fears his son would be locked up in a lab and studied. He tells him it is one thing to do small little goods here and there as he did when he traveled, but living in a city like Metropolis, he can't publicly flaunt his powers.

However, Martha tells Jonathan that Clark has to be Clark and Clark cannot allow people to be hurt. Clark considers visiting Lana, but his parents inform him that she left town around the same time as him. Even more frustrated by this turn of events Clark retreats to his old bedroom. Seeing their son’s pain, his parents realize what they must do. Tell decide to tell Clark who he is and where he came from.

They take him to an old, locked up shed and show him the shuttle he was found in. He removes his glasses in shock and the shuttle instantly reacts to his eyes performing a retinal scan. From there an image of Jor-El and Lara appears. Unlike Donner's Superman, this Jor-El would not come off as so prophetic. His message would simply be one of love towards his son that also explains his heritage. There would be no talk of sending Kal-El like a messiah as Donner's Jor-El did, because I personally dislike that interpretation. Jor-El was not a prophet, he was simply a man who wanted to save his son. However, the bravery and sacrifice Clark's birth parents made for him inspires him. He knows what he must do. He asks Martha to make him a disguise, while holding the blanket the Kents found him in, which was in the shuttle.

The next scene Clark has returned to Metropolis, with a new found determination. He returns to the Planet, intending to ask Perry for the job again, however the Planet newsroom is in an uproar as STAR Labs is launching an experimental space plane that could revolutionize space travel (and in turn as Jimmy mentions, cost business man Lex Luthor billions in government contracts). Clark finds Perry and asks him for a second interview. Clark suggests giving him a freelance job to cover this launch to prove himself, but Perry states that his best reporter is already there.

We then cut to the launch. Lois is trying to get clearance to get closer to the shuttle, which is denied. She goes up to the guard (an air force soldier) however and drops the name of General Sam Lane, her father. The soldier quickly stands down and lets her pass. From here, Lois is able to sneak onto the shuttle.

Meanwhile, we cut to a large building. The biggest in Metropolis. An L shaped tower. The camera zooms to the top floor where we meet Lex Luthor. He is sitting at the desk in his office, smoking a cigar and watching the launch preparations. Luthor's attention however is not on the shuttle, but a woman dressed as a launch technician that is on the launch site where the news camera is. Luthor (and the audience's) attention is briefly diverted to this woman (Mercy). Luthor than takes a puff of his cigar, smiles, presses the intercom on his phone and informs his secretary, Hope to print up a press release saying that LexCorp offers its condolences for those who died on Star Lab's experimental launch but to rest assured, that LexCorp will see to it that the space program continues unscathed by this incident.

We return to the Planet. Clark is still pestering Perry. Perry, both annoyed and impressed by Clark's persistence grants him a second interview but tells him to come back tomorrow after this story is over. Clark agrees.

Cut back to the shuttle launch (which Perry is watching via television in the newsroom during his conversation with Clark). The shuttle launch is successful but as it goes to leave Earth's atmosphere, there is an explosion on board and the engines suddenly give out. The pilots try to restore emergency engines with no avail. They are falling back to the Earth.

Jimmy then runs into Perry's office and informs him that the shuttle is plummeting towards Metropolis. Perry runs out of his office and begins to scream. He wants to know, how, why, where it will land and he wants to know NOW!...then he hesitates from his rant, looks to Jimmy and asks "Where the hell did Kent go?"

Cut to the street, absolute panic as the shuttle is now visibly plummeting. This scene should reflect the panic on Krypton as the tremors intensified and the planet began to explode. However, we see Clark run through the crowd and performs the classic removal of the glasses coupled with the shirt tear to reveal the Superman logo on Clark’s chest. He runs into a secluded alley and launches into the air. Of course, here comes the classic sequence where Superman rescues the space plane and introduces himself to Lois, Luthor, and the rest of the world. He guides it safely back to the STAR labs landing pad. Flirtation with Lois ensues. She asks for an interview, but Superman smiles and reveals he already gave away the exclusive before flying off. Lois mutters the famous line..."What a super man." Then the idea clicks in her head and she eagerly begins to scratch notes onto her notepad.

Cut to the next day, The Planet. The world is in shock over what happened and everyone at the Planet is searching for answers. Jimmy informs Perry that Clark is in his office for the second interview Perry promised him. Exasperated, Perry walks into his office, only to come face to face with a picture of Superman, complete with interview. He looks up at Clark, extends his hand and tells him "Welcome to the Daily Planet." (I know Lois normally gets the first interview, but I felt it was a nice way to ignite some of the rivalry between Lois and Clark as well as a believable, realistic way for a nobody out of Kansas to walk onto a job at the world's largest newspaper).

After Clark gets his job at the planet we spend some time meeting the rest of the cast. We see a more lovable side of Perry. We see that Jimmy is pretty much the Planet’s whipping boy. We learn that Lois is career driven and competitive.

However, Perry assigns Lois to work with Clark and show him the ropes for awhile. Lois objects but reluctantly concedes. Perry teams them up on finding out what went wrong with the STAR Labs shuttle. They go on their first assignment together. In STAR Labs, which they gain easy access to due to Lois’ friendly relationship with Emil Hamil, the chief technician at STAR. Clark uses his X-ray vision to look in at the wreckage, particularly the engine, which appears to have blown up. He uses his super vision to zoom further and sees a tiny scrap of metal with the LexCorp insignia stamped on it, near the engine. It is so small that it would be practically invisible to the naked eye amongst the rest of the scrapped engine.

Meanwhile, Lois reveals that Lex is holding his annual charity ball at LexCorp towers and invites Clark to avoid going alone. .

At the party we learn that Lex is pretty much royalty in Metropolis. Once inside Clark finds out that he was simply being used by Loi to attract Luthor’s attention. Luthor and Lois seem to have a mildly flirtatious relationship, though on this particular night, Lois seems distracted and distant from Lex and doesn’t shut up about Superman, much to Luthor’s annoyance.

Clark on the other hand uses the opportunity to snoop around LexCorp Towers based on a hunch from the scrap metal he saw earlier. Upon entering Luthor’s office, he finds the press release and wonders how Lex could’ve offered condolences when the people did not die and the accident was not tragic. Clark hacks into Lex’s computer and learns who Luthor REALLY is. He finds that he is pretty much the crime lord of Metropolis and uses his position as such to obtain everything from favorable real estate prices through arson, to supplemental income through drug dealing. Before he can print out this evidence he is interrupted by Lex’s body guard, Mercy. The woman who the audience previously saw planting the bomb at the launch. Clark covers by saying he got lost on the way to the bathroom and couldn’t help but look around. He does manage to pocket the press release, however.

Clark leaves the party and changes into Superman. Feeling cocky from his new found celebrity and success in stopping the shuttle crash, he takes the press release to the police and arranges for Luthor to be arrested during the middle of his charity ball. Of course, with the evidence of an unused press release being strictly circumstantial, Luthor is out in minutes, but not before being booked and having his mug shot taken. He has been shamed by Superman and he wants revenge.

After that we see a brief montage of Superman's heroics. During the montage we see Superman do several things all the around the world, ranging from averting disasters like construction accidents to stopping a terrorist attack on a train (the classic hole in the tracks so he lays across the hole while the train drives safely over him) The city of Metropolis is falling in love with him, Hell, the world is. Meanwhile Luthor, clearly an egotistical man, resents that he is not the center of attention and that is made clear during the montage. It is also clear that Luthor is behind a lot of the “accidents” Superman is averting. They are as tests to see what he is capable of.

The next scene involves Luthor being informed of a discovery made. He is told that the tip to mine in Kansas was right and they found an unknown green rock. Initial analysis has revealed it to be alien in nature. Luthor considers this for a moment then tells his bodyguard Mercy that it is time for one more test.

The next scene is a bank robbery in Metropolis. The robbers are nothing more than your average thugs, one of whom is John Corben. Superman shows up, stops them with ease…suddenly Mercy can be seen in the shadows of the bank. She opens a lead box containing a piece of the Kryptonite. Suddenly Superman feels dizzy. He stumbles a bit. And falls to his knees. Satisfied by this Mercy closes the box and slips away.

Corben however, stunned by Superman's brief weakness, picks up his gun and fires point blank then turns to run. However, with the Kryptonite gone, the bullet bounces right off him, and ricochetes into Corben's spine.

Afterwards, the police are cleaning up the scene, Lois trying to get an interview with Superman, Jimmy is taking pictures, etc. Only one thing is off...Mercy is now the paramedic loading Corben's corpse into an ambulence.

Cut to LexCorp labs. Luthor is standing over Corben...who is somehow alive. Luthor tells him that his spine was permanently damages, costing him the use of most of his body, but he has given him a second chance, and he must use it to take revenge on the man who nearly killed him. Superman. During this, we only see Luthor from Corben's perspective. Zoom out and it is revealed that his limbs, spine, chest, are now replaced with metal. At the center is its energy source; Kryptonite. Corben is dead, Metallo is born.

Cut to Clark at the Planet. He is on the phone with his parents explaining the weakness he felt at the bank when suddenly Perry bursts in and reveals that a robot is on a rampage in down town Metropolis. Clark quickly disappears.

Cut to Downtown Metropolis, right in front of LexCorp Towers first battle between Metallo and Superman. However, Lois and Jimmy who arrived on the scene before Superman to get the story are caught in the middle of the fight, a fact that is keeping Superman on the defensive. He holds his own at first, until Metallo's chest opens up revealing the Kryptonite. Exploiting the weakness, Metallo savagely beats Superman, even drawing blood from him. Lois tries to hit him with little success, so he turns his attention to her being as Superman is pretty much out cold. Luthor, who is watching from the balcony of LexCorp Tower and is actually concerned for Lois, decides that Metallo's rampage has gone on long enough, walks into his office and presses a button on a control panel on his desk which sends electrical jolts through Corben, disabling him. Corben, shocked by this, runs off. As Superman begins to regain his composure, Lex presses another button. Suddenly a hospital, a few blocks down the street explodes right before Superman's eyes. As the police arrive, Lex emerges from LexCorp. Fawning concern for Lois at first, then Superman, he kneels over him and while appearing to help him up whispers to him "No matter how hard you try, you can't be two places at once. Go back to where ever you came from, before you get everyone killed."

Defeated, the final scene of the act ends with Superman in Kansas, at his parents’ doorstep, rain pouring down on him.

End Act Two

[Matt]

Act Three:

Devestated, Clark has returned to Smallville. During this time, he is comforted by his parents, but more so Lana, who had returned shortly before him and is staying with the Kents, her parents having passed on, they have become a surrogate family to her. While Lana, Clark, and The Kents have dinner, Chief Higgins arrives to warn them that the storm outside could flood the town and that a relief center is being set up at the church which is on a hill and safe and they may want to head there. Pa Kent tells him they will wait it out and if it worsens go.

Cut back to Metropolis, Metallo is hiding in a warehouse, where he is clearly going mad. He is coming to terms with the fact that he is machine. At first he thought it partial. Until he tried to eat and realized he couldn't taste. In a panic, he peels off the skin from the left side of his face to reveal a totally mechanic robotic exoskeleton. He realizes he is entirely a machine and all aspects of his humanity, his taste, his smell, etc, are gone. He blames Luthor for this and swears revenge.

Back in Smallville, Clark explains to Lana why he ran away. She is frustrated by the fact that she has no answers for Clark. She walks upstairs to help Martha make Clark’s bed.

During this, she recalls the night Clark told her his secret. How burdened she felt by the fact that a girl from Smallville has no answers for Superman despite him turning to her for them. Martha however tells her, that he isn't Superman. He is their Clark and always will be.

The next morning, the river is getting ready to flood and the Kents are about to head to the church. Clark is about to get in the truck when Lana pulls him to the side. She tells him that when she left Smallville and was traveling the world, no matter where she went she heard about this man with powers...who would save people, and she couldn't understand it but now she does. She knows why he helps people because it is no different than Chief Higgins braving the storm to warn the town or a fireman rushing into a burning building, not even to save someone but to see if anyone needs saved. She realizes now, it isn't because he is Superman that he helps people. It is because he is Clark that he helps people and it is because he is Clark that he won't give up. She then kisses him and tells him to get dressed.

The next scene is Clark, confident and once again Superman stopping the flood from engulfing Smallville by building a dam out of trees. It should make a pretty good visual.

Clark says goodbye to his parents and Lana. He then lifts off to return to Metropolis.

Cut to LexCorp Towers. Luthor is having dinner with Lois in his office. She is interviewing him because news is slow with Superman MIA. Luthor is clearly basking in the glory of being the center of attention again. Suddenly Mercy rushes in and warns them of a security breach. It is Metallo Luthor’s security forces and Mercy attempt to stop him but are swatted like flies by the rampaging Metallo. Luthor tries to shock him with his control panel, however Corben driven by his rage smashes the desk right in half. Luthor then stands in front of Lois however Metallo shoves him out of the way saying he dies last. He grabs Lois, takes her to the balcony and throws her off. He returns to Luthor and prepares to strike, however his fist is caught, Superman holds it, with Lois is standing next to him, having caught her. Metallo begins to open his chest, however Superman simply lifts him by the first and throws him straight through the window of Lex's office, flying past the balcony, crashing to the ground 80 stories beneath.

Superman flies down to the streets of Metropolis and prepares to battle Metallo once more. This time the fight is far more even with Superman going on the offensive with constant attacks to keep Metallo from opening his chest and exposing Superman to the kryptonite. The battle climaxes as Metallo finally takes the upper-hand after throwing a car at a bystander and Superman catches in, leaving him vulnerable. Metallo beats Superman to the ground and opens his chest, however in the split second after he opens it, before he is effected by the kryptonite, Superman shoves his hand right into Metallo's core and crushes the kryptonite into dust. Being Metallo's energy source he deactivates and dies.

Superman flies back into Luthor's office. He looks him in the eyes and tells him knowingly "I'm back.” He then offers Lois a ride back to the Planet, telling her he is sure she has a deadline to meet. She accepts and he flies out the window with her.

Luthor, is at first taken aback and visibly angry by Superman calling his bluff and returning, but he calms and turns to Mercy and smiles. "Mercy,” he asks, “Do you recall the satellite we found drifting in orbit?"

She replies "The artificial intelligence that told us to mine in Kansas?"

Luthor nods "Yes, I think we should consult it again. Reactivate the Brainiac.”

We then see Superman flying through Metropolis, just because that seems to be the standard end to superhero movies now-a-days

The end.

[RachelDawes]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2805495650_edcb58c648.jpg



:(

Clearly someone who has had it with the uncontrolled antics of watchmen and other vigilantes. Let's send Rorschach to take care of him. :hehe:

[batman44]

Matt , if only.

[Matt]

^Agreed. I love how the defenders of Singer and his Superman film are so quick to point out that the film is so great because of his expert use of subtlety. Yet meanwhile, Singer is knocking us over the head with a sledgehammer with all the religious references/comparisons he was making.

But yea, Singer is the subtle one. :whatever:

:lmao: So true.

Matt , if only.

It would be a perfect world. But the odds of Warners making a Superman film that good are...well...lets just say it is more likely that Heath Ledger reprises his role in Batman 3.

[SuperDaniel]

The only thing i don't like about Matt's synopsis is the lack of originality. You can't just paste scenes from the comics, Lois & Clark, without making your own story. Even though i like the concept and how faithful it is, there should be a middle term. Plus, i don't like the fact we open on Krypton. It is way too similar to Superman the movie. Personally i think the movie should open with Clark traveling around the world stopping a war and then when he goes back to Smallville, we see the flashbacks. And later in the movie, Brainiac would tell him about Krypton.

[nintendo nerd]

Good job Matt. Very well written. :yay:

[SuperDaniel]

He basically didn't write any of it. He just pasted Superman for all seasons, Lois & Clark and Man of Steel and some concepts of TAS.

[Crook]

sEven though i like the concept and how faithful it is, there should be a middle term. Plus, i don't like the fact we open on Krypton. It is way too similar to Superman the movie.
That's a ridiculous notion. Krypton is where it all begins. It's only logical to start from the beginning when you're telling a story. It's the traditional narrative. No one's going to say it's too similar to a 30 year old movie because they start in the same area.

Did STAS suffer from this?

Personally i think the movie should open with Clark traveling around the world stopping a war and then when he goes back to Smallville, we see the flashbacks. And later in the movie, Brainiac would tell him about Krypton.
The order doesn't matter then if you're going to show Krypton anyway.

[SuperDaniel]

It does matter. Since we already have may linear origins, it would be a nice change for once if we don't see another one. Plus you can play to the effect of us, the audience, finding out about Krypton and how it was along with Supes.

[Nightwing1977]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2805495650_edcb58c648.jpg



:(

Guess now we know what Batman really think about Supes there. :hehe: :batman:

[DavidTyler]

That's a ridiculous notion. Krypton is where it all begins. It's only logical to start from the beginning when you're telling a story. It's the traditional narrative. No one's going to say it's too similar to a 30 year old movie because they start in the same area.

Did STAS suffer from this?


The order doesn't matter then if you're going to show Krypton anyway.


And it was originally done on film back in the days of movie serials.

The Kirk Alyn serial had the Krypton backstory for the intro as did the George Reeve's TV series.

Donner doesn't own the concept of a film starting out with that and I would welcome a new interpretation. ... As long as Krypton is still destroyed as baby Kal-el is sent to Earth.

Wouldn't it be cool if Jor-El didn't really know where the ship would end up. If he had just programmed it to find a compatable world for his son?

[echostation]

The only other thing I didn't like seeing in Matt's overall great synopsis is that Superman doesn't kick enough ass...

I want for once, just once in ALL The Superman films to see Superman completely and utterly destroy the villain, not pull some quick split second stunt whereby he just barely escapes and survives by using some quick split second action.

Sure have Supes beaten badly at first, but then I want to see Supes cut loose to the point where the villain absolutely stands no chance of coming back, like a good solid 4-5 minute footage of absolute pounding cuz I would LOVE to see that as a Superman fan given we've never seen that EVER in a film... in Superman 2, it was ok but he still receives a lot more than he dishes out, and much like every comic film, all the superheroes always get their asses kicked and hardly kick enough ass back with the exception of Daredevil.

I just want to see Superman absolutely cut loose once he's been beaten down, something triggers the never give up attitude inside him and he goes so incredibly and overwhelmingly on the offensive that he literally pummels the villain into defeat, not some split second silly action... I've seen that too many times and I can't stand it, same thing happened in Iron Man.

[Kal-El Fan]

The only other thing I didn't like seeing in Matt's overall great synopsis is that Superman doesn't kick enough ass...

I want for once, just once in ALL The Superman films to see Superman completely and utterly destroy the villain, not pull some quick split second stunt whereby he just barely escapes and survives by using some quick split second action.

Sure have Supes beaten badly at first, but then I want to see Supes cut loose to the point where the villain absolutely stands no chance of coming back, like a good solid 4-5 minute footage of absolute pounding cuz I would LOVE to see that as a Superman fan given we've never seen that EVER in a film... in Superman 2, it was ok but he still receives a lot more than he dishes out, and much like every comic film, all the superheroes always get their asses kicked and hardly kick enough ass back with the exception of Daredevil.

I just want to see Superman absolutely cut loose once he's been beaten down, something triggers the never give up attitude inside him and he goes so incredibly and overwhelmingly on the offensive that he literally pummels the villain into defeat, not some split second silly action... I've seen that too many times and I can't stand it, same thing happened in Iron Man.
There are very few Superman villains who could handle such a pounding. You're pretty much looking at Mongul, Darkseid or Doomsday. Either that or an army of Brainiac drones.

[Crook]

Well then evidently some of his powers needs to be toned down.

[Kal-El Fan]

Well then evidently some of his powers needs to be toned down.
Or not.

[Nirvana]

I'd rather not see Superman's powers toned down.

[Showtime]

It you mean not being able to lift giant islands, then that is fine with me.

[Kal-El Fan]

It you mean not being able to lift giant islands, then that is fine with me.
Giant islands! The #@!! with that! I want to see him blow out a star!!!!! :super:
JK, I don't necessarily want to see him back at the absolute height of his power, but Superman should be able to do just about anything, and he should have to hold back against just about everybody.

(To the points mentioned before)

If you're going to make a Superman film, then he should be going against threats that only Superman can handle. If Batman, Aquaman or the Flash could handle it, then why is it in a Superman film? If you want big action, that can still be there in Superman fighting his way through "armies" of "goons" with machine guns, laser cannons, etc. He has to get through all that, melting guns/disarming the bad guys, tieing them up, etc w/out killing them, and/or he also has to get past security systems of buildings spaceships, etc, also with the high-tech firepower. I want Superman to have to think, and not just muscle through everything. He's not the Hulk, he's Superman. This can include a senario where he "got a beat down" got pissed and tears through an army of Brainiac's drones, and comes to the edge of relieving Brainiac of the burden of his existance. (He would ultimately spare Brainiac's life of course.)

I'm not against a Superman fight scene, I agree something like that was lacking in SR, and the previous films. I guess I'm just saying it would have to be a movie with the villains I mentioned before, which wouldn't be a bad thing.:cwink:

[Crook]

Or not.

I'd rather not see Superman's powers toned down.
Well we'd all have to note where our conceptions of Superman's strengths are, to begin to disagree. Let's face it, from the movies, to tv, to animation....depictions of his powers and strength levels in particular, are all over the place.

I'm not in favor of making Supes look like a pussy, but at the same time I don't want him powered to a point where he doesn't have difficulty with opposing forces.

[sf2]

this is pure awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BixImInHq-Y

[dark_b]

this is pure awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BixImInHq-Yit would be nice if we get this in the next movie
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3236/uizizuizui.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uizizuizui.jpg)

it doesnt have to be the whole city. like in transformers. just one street wher the villain and superman were fighting.

[GreenKToo]

It you mean not being able to lift giant islands, then that is fine with me.
You and I have always agreed on that. Personally, i'd have his upper strength limit be somewhere around lifting an aircraft carrier or a cruise ship.
Thats still hella strong.

[dark_b]

thats very strong.

[GreenKToo]

Its hard to visualize a villain that would be able to stand up to Superman ''IF'' he were able to move Islands, Planets, etc. Even if you did have a villain that could stand up to strength like that, then the Earth could, and prolly would, be destroyed in the process. If you didnt have a villain that could ''take'' it and give as good as he gets, then what would be the point of even having one.

I think it would be more believable to tone the strength levels down. What I mentioned earlier about Superman's limit being lifting large ships would still deliver city wrecking carnage onscreen between he and whatever villain.

[NeoRanger]

Wouldn't it be cool if Jor-El didn't really know where the ship would end up.
You know, it always bothered me when they changed the origin to Jor-El knowing exactly where the ship was going to land (and don't even get me started on Smallville's take on it). But while I personally prefer the idea that he didn't really know where the ship would land, it does seem a bit odd for him to shoot his son into infinite, cold space and hope that it will land on a habitable environment.

[Crook]

Or that it happened to be a world whose inhabitants have no discernible physical difference.

It's probably better for him to know, as to avoid odd contrivances.

[Blackman]

I was gonna say boycott WB until we get more superhero film news....but then I realized that I actually like the studio and their name doesnt rhyme with box

[Kal-El Fan]

Well we'd all have to note where our conceptions of Superman's strengths are, to begin to disagree. Let's face it, from the movies, to tv, to animation....depictions of his powers and strength levels in particular, are all over the place.


True.

[boog_spin]

You know, it always bothered me when they changed the origin to Jor-El knowing exactly where the ship was going to land (and don't even get me started on Smallville's take on it). But while I personally prefer the idea that he didn't really know where the ship would land, it does seem a bit odd for him to shoot his son into infinite, cold space and hope that it will land on a habitable environment.


i like the idea of jor-el and the kryptonians being very advanced and knowing of earth...or of the culture at least...perhaps have them view earthlings as a precursor to themselves...showing some sympathy, while at the same time showing disgust because we are so far behind them in terms of "humanity"...so jor-el makes a pretty good "educated" guess that is son will be ok...i agree smallville takes it too far by the way

[BATZARRO WWD]

I was gonna say boycott WB until we get more superhero film news....but then I realized that I actually like the studio and their name doesnt rhyme with box

They've always have had Superhero news. Just ussually they have no results.:cwink:

[Mostpowerful]

Quote:
But perhaps Horn's and Robinov's biggest failure has been to leave the most valuable DC Comics characters in movie development limbo. Of Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Justice League, only Batman has an ongoing live action franchise. And now that director Chris Nolan is working on back-to-back pics, who knows when the threequel will get a start date. Horn and Robinov remain paralyzed by indecision, chaotically starting and stopping work on scripts. Meanwhile, Marvel is exploiting the hell out of its characters with an ultra-ambitious film development slate
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/humiliating-time-warners-jeff-bewkes-keeps-barry-meyer-and-alan-horn-on-2-year-short-leash/



I was gonna say boycott WB until we get more superhero film news....but then I realized that I actually like the studio and their name doesnt rhyme with box

Are you sure about that??! :huh:

They were supposed to let us know about their plans for these characters last year, around September or so, and look where we are... Nothing much. This is soo pathetic. WB suck. :o

GO MARVEL HEROES! YAY!

... :dry:

[GreenKToo]

I've nothing to add that hasnt already been said.:sleepy:

[DavidTyler]

Or that it happened to be a world whose inhabitants have no discernible physical difference.

It's probably better for him to know, as to avoid odd contrivances.

We buy it in Trek when Spock analyzes a world before they beam down to it. Why couldn't Jor-el have built an automated system into the device used to send Kal-el off into space that would recognize a hospitable planet? The scanner's could detect the make-up of the planet and, as it comes within range, detect the life forms on it.

I'm just saying that having Jor-el know or not know about Earth is not a deal breaker for me but it might be interesting if he didn't have a dedicated destination for the ship. If he just programmed it to find a place where Kal-el could survive.

[GreenKToo]

Interesting. I had an old mini mag about supes several yrs ago and it showed jor-el checking different planets and what would happen to supes on each one.

on one, he became a Batman like character.
on another, a Flash one.
on yet another, an aquaman one.
on the last, just a police officer of sorts.

I think what it was trying to say was that Kal-el would have became a hero where ever he ended up. powers or not.

[Sam]

http://kska.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/sleep.jpg

[GreenKToo]

cover your mouth. that mornin' breath stanks.:oldrazz:

[Sam]

cover your mouth. that mornin' breath stanks.:oldrazz:

hehehe sorry!

Btw, i wasnt refering to your post, but the lack of news regarding Superman movies and lack of hability of Warner move this project fwd.

As time goes by, it becomes more and more boring..

[GreenKToo]

Yes I know. wash. rinse. repeat.

[Antonello Blueberry]

Quote:
They were supposed to let us know about their plans for these characters last year, around September or so, and look where we are... Nothing much. This is soo pathetic. WB suck. :o

Well, they announced the release date for Green Lantern and they're on the set for Jonah Hex, not to mention The Losers soon to be shooting.

[Showtime]

Jonah Hex and the Losers are secondary if not 3rd tier properties.

[Webhead2006]

Yea they are but it is nice to see a few more DC guys get on the screen soon. I cant wait for GL to start shooting in a few months. Hopefully Flash will happen next.

[sf2]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

[Daredevil_2003]

Why you would even say that I don't know...

[GreenKToo]

I dont get it either. G.L. bombing could, and prolly would, put the brakes on a whole lot of DC films.

[Sam]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

Why?

[NeoRanger]

We buy it in Trek when Spock analyzes a world before they beam down to it. Why couldn't Jor-el have built an automated system into the device used to send Kal-el off into space that would recognize a hospitable planet? The scanner's could detect the make-up of the planet and, as it comes within range, detect the life forms on it.
There you still risk either getting too technical with the audience or just not convincing them. The truth is that the only, the absolute only way that Jor-El not knowing where the ship will land is going to be plausible and acceptable to an audience is if they make it pretty clear that the Eradicator (or the TAS version of Brainiac) is consciously piloting the ship. And again, you can't be sure, because the universe is theoretically infinite.

Like I said, I like the idea of Superman being shot in space at random; it gives the story an extra sense of... romanticism, some sort of "fate" or something of the kind that lands a baby nearly lost in the arms of loving parents lightyears away from home. But for a movie, where you want to keep things simple and believable? If I were writing it, I wouldn't take the risk.

[Lobo]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

Why would you want that? if it's just because you don't like the character, you know, no one is forcing you to sit at the theate.

[Daredevil_2003]

I dont get it either. G.L. bombing could, and prolly would, put the brakes on a whole lot of DC films.Exactly, WB has already proven they are nowhere near as adventurous as Marvel. If GL bombs we might not see any DC film that doesn't star a guy with pointy ears for quite some time. And we've already waited long enough, as is.

[Excel]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

aint happening

[FilmNerdJamie]

Superman Limbo III: I'm Still Superman

You may not have noticed, but when the general public exited the theater after almost spending three hours viewing Superman's return to the big screen, they were shrugging their shoulders. They were either shrugging off the bad experience that was "Superman Returns" or they were shrugging their shoulders because there is no way they could pick their favorite scene. Either way, the moment they left the theater they stopped thinking about Superman.

Leading up to "Superman Returns" in 2006, Superman was indeed everywhere. Superman was featured on everything from cereal boxes to lunch boxes. When kids drank a bottle of orange juice and looked at the carton they would exclaim, "That's Superman." That is how WB feels about Brandon Routh who carried the burden of portraying the iconic character on the big screen. The last thing that WB wanted was the general public shrugging their shoulders at Superman.

It is my opinion that a supervillian and some action featuring said supervillian would have went a long way towards boosting the box office of "Superman Returns". I think the general public was turned off by Superman having a kid, lack of action, which a lack of a supervillian contributed to. WB ended up in the worst position possible. They ended up with a film that didn't flop, but didn't meet their projections. WB's one constant was that they are happy with Brandon Routh in the role.

WB's President & Chief Operating Officer Alan Horn, Legendary Pictures Chairman & CEO Thomas Tull, and DC Comic President Paul Levitz are reportedly all in agreement that Routh embodies the character of Superman both in and out of the suit. This is why Routh's likeness is still finding its way on Valentine's Day cards and stationary even today. Most of the information coming from various web sites and sources inside and affiliated WB suggest that they are looking to go forward with a Superman film that would still star Routh as Superman. Kellvin Chavez of Latino Review had a chance to talk to Paul Levitz back in October of 08 about Superman and Brandon Routh:

I saw the one and only Paul Levitz, the President of DC Comics. I walked over to him and had a moment to hang out and chat with him briefly. I could not keep my mouth shut and had to ask the questions that Latino readers are asking. So I went in straight for the kill.

“So Paul, what the **** is happening with Superman?” Well not in those words actually. Paul looked over both shoulders like he was about to score some basura and said that things are still brewing.

In fact, he told me that “Last week Brandon Routh has come around the offices in New York and Los Angeles as of late to talk about Superman and what we want to do”……blah blah blah!

At first I thought it was the Apple Martini I was drinking but I soon realized that I just heard a bombshell go off in my brain! Brandon? He did say Brandon Routh was coming around talking about Superman! Why the hell would they be talking to Brandon if he was not going to be part of the reboot? Because he’s still in the mix!!!

Granted it is now April of 2009 and a lot has changed over at WB. They've been going through Superman ideas over there in Burbank like Zod dishes out the word "kneel". There are certainly fans of Routh in places that count but actors Tom Welling and Henry Cavill certainly have strong backing in the "fanperson" community. Welling has been every Smallville fans top choice for almost a decade. The worst thing that happened to Welling's chances is they made another Superman film while he was taking Smallville by storm. Henry Cavill has been up for a handful of high profile roles, James Bond among them, but is most known for being a "Top 3 Candidate".

What Would Peter Do:
I would go forward with a "Superman Film". I wouldn't worry about the "Donnerverse" or the "Singerverse". I would tell a Superman: Year One type story in a similar vein to Batman Begins. The story arc would feature Lex Luthor's rise to power in Metropolis coinciding with Superman's first year in Metropolis and how they both deal with the arrival of Brainiac. I would recast every role including Superman searching worldwide for the new "Man of Steel"

What Will Warners Do:
This will depend on what else, time. If they get moving sooner rather than later with Horn still at the wheel and before a transition to Robinov, they will stick with Brandon Routh as Superman. They will also stick with some of the cast. Frank Langella, Kevin Spacey, and Sam Huntington the favorites to return. They will transition to Lex Luthor and Luthorcorp and bring a Supervillian like Brainiac or Doomsday.
Who will write? Who will direct?

To Be Continued...
http://thinkmcflythink.squarespace.com/movie-news/2009/4/9/superman-limbo-iii-im-still-superman.html

[mjbull23]

Fairly straight ahead

Horn at Helm = Good for Brandon
Robinov at Helm = Bad for Brandon
Superman Fans Worldwide = Impunitively inflict with more pain as the eternal wait continues.

Welling = Non Factor. Non Story.
Cavill = 3rd of Top 3.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Cavill's never getting Superman. People are going to have to get that out of their heads. Ditto with Welling.

[dark_b]

like he said.
the worst situation. it was not a bomb and it was not a big money maker.


only one fight and only one supervillain and i would watch now the final theatrical trailer for MOS

[Nightwing1977]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

Please tell me you're joking. I want GL to be a big success, since I'm a huge GL fan. It has potential to be a good film if done right. Let hope Campbell will make the film great like Iron Man. :gl:

[Dotten]

It's agonizing to follow the news for a Superman-movie (or rather, lack of news) :(

It's like the 90's all over again. I don't even have hope anymore...

[Dotten]

*doublepost, please delete*

[NewYorkSpider]

well, i just want to see GL bomb big time like punisher.

I think a GL movie has potential, unlike the Punisher movies.

[Excel]

Green Lanterns going to be enormous; its release date ensures that.

The only person I would rule for supes is welling...when he didnt get it in 2006 its clear they want him to remain on the small screen. It looks like its gonna be a very good summer for the pair w.b. once had hired to bring this to the screen (McG and Abrams). The talk of the tf writers and verinski has me thinking they are defiently aiming for a more fun film. Or...they could just give to some indie dude ala Nolan.

W.B. are totally unpredictable...the only thing that seems certain is we wont have a supes film for a while.

To be honest I actually think we can rule out Routh. Quite simply if they wanted another film from that team wed know it by now.

We were SUPPOSED to be expecting the theatrical trailer to superman 2 next month...had everything gone to plan. Now we havent even had some sort of announcement.

My guess is they are just sitting on the property and hoping it puts itself together ala Batman Begins.

[DavidTyler]

There you still risk either getting too technical with the audience or just not convincing them. The truth is that the only, the absolute only way that Jor-El not knowing where the ship will land is going to be plausible and acceptable to an audience is if they make it pretty clear that the Eradicator (or the TAS version of Brainiac) is consciously piloting the ship. And again, you can't be sure, because the universe is theoretically infinite.

Like I said, I like the idea of Superman being shot in space at random; it gives the story an extra sense of... romanticism, some sort of "fate" or something of the kind that lands a baby nearly lost in the arms of loving parents lightyears away from home. But for a movie, where you want to keep things simple and believable? If I were writing it, I wouldn't take the risk.

You just touched on an interesting plot point.

If Brainiac ... or rather a fraction of Brainiac ... were consciously piloting the ship... that would be a great kick off point for Brainiac to show up in the film. Brainiac would trace that small part of himself to Earth and there would be a nice set up for a confrontation.

Needs more development but what an interesting idea.


And, again, these are just idle thoughts.

[NewYorkSpider]

My guess is they are just sitting on the property and hoping it puts itself together ala Batman Begins.

I think remaining patient is the key. There's no sense in rushing this film so fast that they screw something up.

[Double Down]

I was just at Target and they had several blu-rays at buy-one-get-one-free. One of them was called "Punisher 2." It's the same thing that happened with "Hulk" and "The Incredible Hulk." The term "reboot" is meaningless to most people. The next movie most likely is going to be considered a sequel to Superman Returns, no matter who plays Superman. So if WB is happy with Routh, there is no real reason not to keep him.

[cronosred]

I was just at Target and they had several blu-rays at buy-one-get-one-free. One of them was called "Punisher 2." It's the same thing that happened with "Hulk" and "The Incredible Hulk." The term "reboot" is meaningless to most people. The next movie most likely is going to be considered a sequel to Superman Returns, no matter who plays Superman. So if WB is happy with Routh, there is no real reason not to keep him.

Or they might as well replace him with someone better.

[Double Down]

...

[Daredevil_2003]

Implying there's someone better than Routh who's name isn't Chris Reeve round these parts can get a man shot...careful, now. :hehe:

[RachelDawes]

Or they might as well replace him with someone better.

You're going to get an earful from MP. :hehe:

[Nightwing1977]

Or they might as well replace him with someone better.

Routh is fine. He's deserve a second chance. :supes:

[Mostpowerful]

I was just at Target and they had several blu-rays at buy-one-get-one-free. One of them was called "Punisher 2." It's the same thing that happened with "Hulk" and "The Incredible Hulk." The term "reboot" is meaningless to most people. The next movie most likely is going to be considered a sequel to Superman Returns, no matter who plays Superman. So if WB is happy with Routh, there is no real reason not to keep him.

Exaaaaaactly. It'd be recast just to... recast.

Besides, Brandon is a fan and has a passion for the character. He knows what we the fans want to see.



Or they might as well replace him with someone better.

....


You're going to get an earful from MP. :hehe:

:grin:

Routh is fine. He's deserve a second chance. :supes:

Brandon Routh IS Superman. :o :hehe:

[boywonder13]

I do want Routh as Supes, but i see the problem of having him, if they want to do a 'reboot'. cuz a reboot would imply no Kid, and no any main plot points from Returns or Superman I, or II, which would kinda confuse the audience, not that most studios would really care haha.

I want Superman Unleashed to be a sequel to Returns. I love the Donner-Singer verse. The only thing missing from Returns was action, and a new villain, im sick of Luthor. I want Zod to come back so bad for it agh.(oops, Zod isnt new either, but Luthor is just annoying as hell)

[GreenKToo]

The longer this drags on/out, the worse it looks for Routh coming back.
I still think they should recast the whole sha-bang if its a reboot, but I would accept Routh back in the role, especially now that he's buffed up so much. He should have been that size for S.R. anyway.

[mjbull23]

I do want Routh as Supes, but i see the problem of having him, if they want to do a 'reboot'. cuz a reboot would imply no Kid, and no any main plot points from Returns or Superman I, or II, which would kinda confuse the audience, not that most studios would really care haha.

I want Superman Unleashed to be a sequel to Returns. I love the Donner-Singer verse. The only thing missing from Returns was action, and a new villain, im sick of Luthor. I want Zod to come back so bad for it agh.(oops, Zod isnt new either, but Luthor is just annoying as hell)


I like the way you think kid. You're allright by me. :up:

I always have a difficult time empathizing with the notion that audiences are so clueless when it comes to sequels/ reboots. What is so hard to understand? Maybe it's time for GA's to get more "in the know".

[DavidTyler]

i do want routh as supes, but i see the problem of having him, if they want to do a 'reboot'. Cuz a reboot would imply no kid, and no any main plot points from returns or superman i, or ii, which would kinda confuse the audience, not that most studios would really care haha.

I want superman unleashed to be a sequel to returns. I love the donner-singer verse. The only thing missing from returns was action, and a new villain, im sick of luthor. I want zod to come back so bad for it agh.(oops, zod isnt new either, but luthor is just annoying as hell)

ZOD?????

Superman has a whole pantheon of villains to draw from and you're suggesting rehashing a villain from Superman II?!!!

Sometimes I wonder how many of my fellow posters here have knowledge of the character beyond the Donner/Singer films?

[NewYorkSpider]

Metallo, Braniac, Doomsday, Bizzaro or Darkseid should be used before you use General Zod.

[Webhead2006]

I like the way you think kid. You're allright by me. :up:

I always have a difficult time empathizing with the notion that audiences are so clueless when it comes to sequels/ reboots. What is so hard to understand? Maybe it's time for GA's to get more "in the know".

So true

[BATZARRO WWD]

Now, like anything, it's all about on who's behind the camera and what his vision is. If there was a really passionate and skilled director who truly felt that a different actor is a better choice, because of chemistry with the whole cast and other such things, and wants to make a reboot, then why not give someone else a chance? Sure, at that point, we could debate whether he was better or worse than Routh, for whatever good it'll do, but I think at this point in time, it's too close to SR for a Reboot that ignores the previous film, but keeps some of the cast. . But hey, that's just my point of view.

[Daredevil_2003]

Yeah but I really dont want to get rid of the original cast just for the hell of it. Routh? I liked him a lot but if they find someone who's truly a better actor, rather than just a good resemblance of Reeve with average (at best) acting chops, then I'd be for replacing him. But the rest of the cast I loved. Even Kate Bosworth as LL I adored. Kevin Spacey was a fantastic Lex, I'd like to see what he could do with the cold, white collar criminal version, Frank Langella pretty much is Perry White, in my mind. SR had a few major weaknesses but the cast was not one of them, IMO. I dont want to see those guys go just because 'it's a reboot'. Screw that noise.

They did that with Hulk and while the rest of the cast I could care less about, I really missed Sam Elliot as Ross.

And as a for instance to my theory that the general audience is not that stupid and/or just doesn't care: look at Bond. They kepy Judi Dench as M while fairly radically changing everything else. Nobody complained. I don't recall anybody being confused, either. You'd be surprised how many people understand when something is a reboot. It's just the really dumb ones or the ones who don't follow movies at all that are left in the dark.

[DavidTyler]

I'm being completely honest here ... I didn't see much in the way of chemistry between any of the actors in SR. Potential maybe be actually chemistry? The warmest person in the film was definitely James Marsden and I didn't even buy his relationship with Bosworth.

I don't care if they keep the cast but, if they do, they need to fix a lot of problems. Send the cast away on vacation together ... and, while they're off, have the writers find a way to ensure the general public knows the next film is not connected to SR in any way.

[X Knight]

well, in regards to Zod, he could have been used again.....IF DONE DIFFERENTLY than the Donner movies!!

Just like Lex could have been done differently!!

Just like they reused Joker in TDK.....but WITH A DIFFERENT TAKE!!

For example, Zod's backstory could be changed to make him not only an integral part of Superman's history, but also tie him to another villain.....

Let's say.....Zod was once Krypton's greatest general......but then he betrayed his home planet, allying himself with Darkseid and committing or contributing to mass genocide on the planet. Or, maybe Zod was responsible for "tampering" with the Brainiac AI program that Jor-El created to monitor the planet's well being.....thus contributing to the planet's demise.....

Either way, you just don't use Zod....you link him to other villains in the Superman mythos.

Same with Lex. Show us a different Lex ( that is, evil corporate Lex ) and have him create his own villains to deal with Superman......y'know, like Metallo or Bizarro. You could even have Lex be responsible for unleashing Doomsday, ala the Superman: Doomsday animated movie.....

IOW.....there's nothing wrong with reusing villains like Lex and Zod, as long as you give us something new, fresh, and different......create interesting backstories for them.....and throw in new villains, too ( Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Metallo, etc. ).

Imagine a Superman trilogy story that involved ALL those characters from Superman's mythos ( corporate Lex, Zod, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Metallo ), all tied together in an epic, well-crafted, and action-packed story that reintroduces Superman to a new generation of fans, while still retaining the core essence of the characters.........

It would be alot more interesting than having a real-estate obsessed Lex using ADVANCED ALIEN TECHNOLOGY to create a boring giant chunk of land......and Supes lifting said boring giant chunk of land into space...........

[Webhead2006]

That would be sweet.

[mjbull23]

well, in regards to Zod, he could have been used again.....IF DONE DIFFERENTLY than the Donner movies!!


For example, Zod's backstory could be changed to make him not only an integral part of Superman's history, but also tie him to another villain.....

Either way, you just don't use Zod....you link him to other villains in the Superman mythos.

.

I feel that a Zod and Brainiac alliance would make complete sense. There are multiple ways to achieve this without making it appear overly contrived.

Same goes for a Zod and Darkseid pairing. Although this scenario would call for more of otherworldy story setting. You begin on Apokolips and and then work your way towards earth. Would be interesting to see how two despotic tyrants play off each other, who assumes that alpha role between those two massive egos..

[I SEE SPIDEY]

If Superman Returns didn't exist I wouldn't be against Zod but it did so I am.

No Zod.

[X Knight]

If Superman Returns didn't exist I wouldn't be against Zod but it did so I am.

No Zod.

"NO ZOD FOR YOU!!" :woot:

[RachelDawes]

Imagine a Superman trilogy story that involved ALL those characters from Superman's mythos ( corporate Lex, Zod, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Metallo ), all tied together in an epic, well-crafted, and action-packed story that reintroduces Superman to a new generation of fans, while still retaining the core essence of the characters.........

I really hope the next director goes in this direction.

ETA: I hate bringing up Batman here, but I like how Nolan's movies all tie together. They feel less like unrelated films that happen to star the same character and more like a long story about how a man became a superhero.

[DavidTyler]

well, in regards to Zod, he could have been used again.....IF DONE DIFFERENTLY than the Donner movies!!

Just like Lex could have been done differently!!

Just like they reused Joker in TDK.....but WITH A DIFFERENT TAKE!!

For example, Zod's backstory could be changed to make him not only an integral part of Superman's history, but also tie him to another villain.....

Let's say.....Zod was once Krypton's greatest general......but then he betrayed his home planet, allying himself with Darkseid and committing or contributing to mass genocide on the planet. Or, maybe Zod was responsible for "tampering" with the Brainiac AI program that Jor-El created to monitor the planet's well being.....thus contributing to the planet's demise.....

Either way, you just don't use Zod....you link him to other villains in the Superman mythos.

Same with Lex. Show us a different Lex ( that is, evil corporate Lex ) and have him create his own villains to deal with Superman......y'know, like Metallo or Bizarro. You could even have Lex be responsible for unleashing Doomsday, ala the Superman: Doomsday animated movie.....

IOW.....there's nothing wrong with reusing villains like Lex and Zod, as long as you give us something new, fresh, and different......create interesting backstories for them.....and throw in new villains, too ( Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Metallo, etc. ).

Imagine a Superman trilogy story that involved ALL those characters from Superman's mythos ( corporate Lex, Zod, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Metallo ), all tied together in an epic, well-crafted, and action-packed story that reintroduces Superman to a new generation of fans, while still retaining the core essence of the characters.........

It would be alot more interesting than having a real-estate obsessed Lex using ADVANCED ALIEN TECHNOLOGY to create a boring giant chunk of land......and Supes lifting said boring giant chunk of land into space...........

Zod is not and never was Superman's 'Joker'.

I don't have any desire to see some of the other great villains and adversaries from Superman's long history passed over so we can have a retread of a villain we've already seen in another film.

Now ... Batman villains have been done very- very badly in the previous franchise so I have no problem with Nolan redressing them and re-introducing them to the general public but Terence Stamp was never the campy part of Superman II and we don't need to re-invent the character.

NO TO ZOD....

Maybe if the new franchise lasts 3 or 4 films we can bring him back... but LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER VILLAIN.

[Superark]

Zod is not and never was Superman's 'Joker'.

I don't have any desire to see some of the other great villains and adversaries from Superman's long history passed over so we can have a retread of a villain we've already seen in another film.

Now ... Batman villains have been done very- very badly in the previous franchise so I have no problem with Nolan redressing them and re-introducing them to the general public but Terence Stamp was never the campy part of Superman II and we don't need to re-invent the character.

NO TO ZOD....

Maybe if the new franchise lasts 3 or 4 films we can bring him back... but LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER VILLAIN.


Very well said sir!

[Showtime]

Honestly every chance they had to use Zod flew by the wayside after Superman Returns. It would have been a perfect opportunity to have Zod return from his frozen grave in the fortress to battle Superman. That would have been the only way they could have used him and used him right. Heck it would have been much better with Superman battling a super powered bad ass Zod in Superman Returns. Now, forget it. No Zod. EVER.

[Superark]

Brainiac PLEASE!!!

Actually, a Superman film PLEASE!!!!

[Mostpowerful]

Well, it seems that the Superman is staying at Warners..

http://live.comicbookresources.com/2009/04/06/the-new-dc-animated-mural-wb/

[Showtime]

Why wouldn't Superman be staying there?

[MAN O STEEL]

Why wouldn't Superman be staying there?


Yeah i agree, I'm a little confused also.






Steve

[RachelDawes]

Why wouldn't Superman be staying there?

Maybe she's referring to the lawsuit from a while back.

[Ol'Canucklehead]

I just kind of poped my head in this thread for the first time, because I just heard a rumor from a pal of mine, S.S.D, (If you can guess those initials than you got the name, otherwise source is confedintial) that the studios are actualy starting to gear up to make a full blown Smallville to Superman MOVIE! Aparently they are going to do this as the finaly to the series, and either continue on with a new series after that or just keep him in a movie franchise.....this is all if the film does well, and if not it looks like there may just be a reboot. He said something about how they could market both if they needed to with just a few years apart because of the diffence in style....Iduno. Anyways just thought I would let that rumor out of the bag, nothings for certain, but I wana be the first guy who broke the news if its true :)

[Showtime]

Yeah i agree, I'm a little confused also.


Maybe she's referring to the lawsuit from a while back.

Possibly. I don't think that is even an issue nor was it ever.

[FlawlessVictory]

Well, it seems that the Superman is staying at Warners..

http://live.comicbookresources.com/2009/04/06/the-new-dc-animated-mural-wb/

Nice! Batman front and center! Where's Superman? Oh wait, there he is, all the way off to the side. :hehe:

[MAN O STEEL]

Nice! Batman front and center! Where's Superman? Oh wait, there he is, all the way off to the side. :hehe:


Yeah, they seem to forget who the true hero is amoungst all of them. Seems if you make a few good movies with a certain hero then they get front & centre. :whatever:





Steve

[Ol'Canucklehead]

Itd because that version of Batman is the only one of those characters currently on TV.

[Showtime]

Nice! Batman front and center! Where's Superman? Oh wait, there he is, all the way off to the side. :hehe:

Batman is there go to at this point. Not a surprise. Welcome to The Nolanverse.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

"NO ZOD FOR YOU!!" :woot:*Chuckle*

[BATZARRO WWD]

About Zod, I see him as a variant of the "same powers as Superman but evil" archetype. So, really, Zod would be no more or less qualified than Bizarro, or Ultraman. Really, what's Zod got that any other kryptonian or Superman clone can't have?

[SuperDaniel]

Because he screams KNEEL BEFORE ZOD?

[Ol'Canucklehead]

Needs to be Doomsday if anything.

[Showtime]

There several baddies they could use.

[FilmNerdJamie]

My $$$s on Brainiac.

[GreenKToo]

Lex (in a smaller, or better role), Brainiac as the main villain, and perhaps metallo or parasite as a throw away villain at the beginning is where my money is at.

I think they'll need, and will want, to start it off with a bang this time.

[KalMart]

Zod is not and never was Superman's 'Joker'.

I don't have any desire to see some of the other great villains and adversaries from Superman's long history passed over so we can have a retread of a villain we've already seen in another film.

Now ... Batman villains have been done very- very badly in the previous franchise so I have no problem with Nolan redressing them and re-introducing them to the general public but Terence Stamp was never the campy part of Superman II and we don't need to re-invent the character.

NO TO ZOD....

Maybe if the new franchise lasts 3 or 4 films we can bring him back... but LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER VILLAIN.

circa 2008

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9889/fight3a.jpg

[GreenKToo]

Ha Ha Ha :D


so sad :(

[Webhead2006]

haha, as for villains i would love to see brainiac, metallo, doomsday, and darkseid.

[mjbull23]

circa 2008

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9889/fight3a.jpg

LOL this is great.

[SuperDaniel]

If it was up to me:

1 - Braniac, Luthor and Intergang.

2 - Parasite, Metallo, Luthor in the run for president.

3 - President Luthor, Darkseid, Metallo, Parasite, Intergang and World War III.

[Webhead2006]

that could be a good set of pairing.

[solidsnake86]

If it was up to me:

1 - Braniac, Luthor and Intergang.

2 - Parasite, Metallo, Luthor in the run for president.

3 - President Luthor, Darkseid, Metallo, Parasite, Intergang and World War III.

That last film would be pretty crowded. My ideal trilogy which I think I've said before would be:

1st film: Brainiac, with luthor being seen to the general public as good and trying to paint superman as bad. Luthor would steel brainiacs body at the end.

2nd: Luthor as the main bad guy with brainiacs technology creating either parasite, metallo or both. Brainiac in a way would be the catalyst for superman's villains. General public find out luthors bad.

3rd: Could go either way but I still think Zod. Hate the character all you want, he still has a more compelling story then darkseid and you could have superman being forced to team with luthor to take down the phantom zone criminals. It just wouldnt be zod, it would be a whole lot of them released.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I like the idea of Luthor stealing Brainiacs body.

[SuperDaniel]

That last film would be pretty crowded. My ideal trilogy which I think I've said before would be:

1st film: Brainiac, with luthor being seen to the general public as good and trying to paint superman as bad. Luthor would steel brainiacs body at the end.

2nd: Luthor as the main bad guy with brainiacs technology creating either parasite, metallo or both. Brainiac in a way would be the catalyst for superman's villains. General public find out luthors bad.

3rd: Could go either way but I still think Zod. Hate the character all you want, he still has a more compelling story then darkseid and you could have superman being forced to team with luthor to take down the phantom zone criminals. It just wouldnt be zod, it would be a whole lot of them released.
Its not really crowded. Word War III as in Alien Invasion, Darkseid, Concentration Camps, Apokolyps, President Luthor laws against aliens, heroes and villains chosing a side. Trust me when i say it would be THE movie and not crowded at all. There is no way Zod is more compelling than an intergalactic Hitler. That's the way i see Darkseid.

[Daredevil_2003]

Imagining that pic above with Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy's voices made me choke on my Dr Pepper. :hehe:

[Dave_W]

Although the plane scene in SR was good, I wish it could have been something more like...

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3742/supermanplane.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanplane.jpg)


I know they're not going to have another plane disaster sequence in the the next one, but this would have been way better. Especially if the plane slams into the ground with Superman still underneath it and he crawls out from under the wreckage and sees all the destruction. That would be pretty dark and brooding without making him like Batman.

[GreenKToo]

I like. what film is that from??? knowing??

[FlawlessVictory]

That's pretty cool Dave_W. I like that. :yay:

[Showtime]

That's badass.

[Excel]

That planes tiny compared to those cars...

[bunk]

I feel like a high speed rail rescue could be pretty badass.

[Dave_W]

Yeah it's from 'Knowing', it's the best scene in the whole film. When I saw it the first thing that sprung to mind was 'that would have been even better with Supes trying to stop it'.

I think the next film really needs to be epic, especially when you have a character that powerful (Michael Bay sytle but without the **** bits). With the abilities that Superman has, it's a real waste just having him hang around in bushes stalking Lois, when he should be preventing things that only he can prevent (the plane sequence did a good job, but then that was it until the end).

One of the things that interests me about the character is that he knows he can't be everywhere at once, so he can't always save everyone, but he still tries anyway. Even Gene Hackman's Luthor figured out that weakness!

Superman needs to be challenged both physically AND mentally....Brainiac anyone?

[what_19]

Although the plane scene in SR was good, I wish it could have been something more like...

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3742/supermanplane.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanplane.jpg)


I know they're not going to have another plane disaster sequence in the the next one, but this would have been way better. Especially if the plane slams into the ground with Superman still underneath it and he crawls out from under the wreckage and sees all the destruction. That would be pretty dark and brooding without making him like Batman.


thats badass

[terry78]

The thing with Superman is, his whole rogues gallery is based in sci-fi, and Batman's is based more in crime noir. There are many opportunities within Superman's universe to have some serious threats, but no one can seem to figure out how to do it. Luthor can return, but bring on Brainiac, or have him be indirectly responsible for Parasite or something.

[SuperDaniel]

The problem is that they don't care for the comics so they have no clue in what to do with the character. They don't even hire people that cares for the comics... Many fans have plenty of ideas about how to make the movie and most are very similar.

[DavidTyler]

That last film would be pretty crowded. My ideal trilogy which I think I've said before would be:

..................

3rd: Could go either way but I still think Zod. Hate the character all you want, he still has a more compelling story then darkseid and you could have superman being forced to team with luthor to take down the phantom zone criminals. It just wouldnt be zod, it would be a whole lot of them released.

This is not intended to start an argument, I just want to understand some of my fellow posters better....

Just because I'm curious - was your first real exposure to Superman via the Chris Reeve films?

[GreenKToo]

The problem is that they don't care for the comics so they have no clue in what to do with the character. They don't even hire people that cares for the comics... Many fans have plenty of ideas about how to make the movie and most are very similar.
I mostly agree. It really irks me when a studio makes a CB film without sticking to the source material, and then wonder why it failed/underachieved.
It just makes you wanna grab them by the shoulders, shake them, and say, HELLLOOOO??, a cloud? a frakin cloud? are you kidding us?.

[nintendo nerd]

I mostly agree. It really irks me when a studio makes a CB film without sticking to the source material, and then wonder why it failed/underachieved.
It just makes you wanna grab them by the shoulders, shake them, and say, HELLLOOOO??, a cloud? a frakin cloud? are you kidding us?.


SR failed because of the lack of action, not because it was different to the CB. Batman 89 says hi.

[GreenKToo]

SR failed because of the lack of action, not because it was different to the CB. Batman 89 says hi.
Pick out where I said anything about S.R......and hi back to Batman 89.:batman:

[Excel]

Batman 89 had the "cool" thing going on...SR....did not.

[GlasgowBat]

and for all the deviations in B89, it stuck very close to the mood, atmosphere and characterisation of many of the various comicbook interpretations.

so there.

[solidsnake86]

This is not intended to start an argument, I just want to understand some of my fellow posters better....

Just because I'm curious - was your first real exposure to Superman via the Chris Reeve films?

Oh no problem david, I believe it was the animated series. Never really cared for STM and didnt even watch it till later on. If you wanted to know because of my reason for zod it has more to do with Geoff Johns Last son arc/ the annual that came out. That story, IMO of course, did a lot for the character and made him a more compelling villain than darkseid. Not to say I dont think darkseid is a good villain, but he belongs more in a jla film than a superman one.

[Eros]

Not just that Excel, Batman89 destroyed the image of the campy 60s Adam west Batman series that the general public new. It introduced the character into a new generation of fans, just like Richard sonner did with his Superman:The Movie. Tim Burton wasn't a fan of the old Batman 60s seroes, which was a good thing, he probbaly new he had to shatter that goofy image that alot of the general Public had of Batman. He did just that,much like Donner did before him.

Before Donner did superman:The Movie, George Reeves popular 50s superman series was the iconic version of the character for alot of people. Donner saw that as a challege I bet, he new he had to blow the previous live action version out superman out of the water. He wanted to redefine the character for a new generation of fans. Thats what Visionary/great directors do, they asprie to be better and do new and bold things that what had come before them.

Chris Nolan had the same challenge when he made Batman Begins, some people still had the bad taste of 1997s Batman and Robin. Nolan didn't want to pay Homage to a warn out version of the character. He wanted to bring Batman into the 21st century, to be new and better then what had come before it. He thankly was not a fan of the previous Batman movies, and so he had an unbaised approach to Batman. Superman needs that, Superman movies need a director who has great respect for the suoerman character as a whole, not just the old superman movies and cartoons. Thats IMO is what all superhero movies need, a director who is not a fanboy, but has a respect and admiration for the character as a whole comics,movies, etc.

[KalMart]

I mostly agree. It really irks me when a studio makes a CB film without sticking to the source material, and then wonder why it failed/underachieved.
It just makes you wanna grab them by the shoulders, shake them, and say, HELLLOOOO??, a cloud? a frakin cloud? are you kidding us?.
Watchmen stuck to the source material, didn't it?

[dark_b]

Watchmen stuck to the source material, didn't it?i guess some movies click and some dont.

:yay:

[what_19]

haha so true

[Webhead2006]

Not just that Excel, Batman89 destroyed the image of the campy 60s Adam west Batman series that the general public new. It introduced the character into a new generation of fans, just like Richard sonner did with his Superman:The Movie. Tim Burton wasn't a fan of the old Batman 60s seroes, which was a good thing, he probbaly new he had to shatter that goofy image that alot of the general Public had of Batman. He did just that,much like Donner did before him.

Before Donner did superman:The Movie, George Reeves popular 50s superman series was the iconic version of the character for alot of people. Donner saw that as a challege I bet, he new he had to blow the previous live action version out superman out of the water. He wanted to redefine the character for a new generation of fans. Thats what Visionary/great directors do, they asprie to be better and do new and bold things that what had come before them.

Chris Nolan had the same challenge when he made Batman Begins, some people still had the bad taste of 1997s Batman and Robin. Nolan didn't want to pay Homage to a warn out version of the character. He wanted to bring Batman into the 21st century, to be new and better then what had come before it. He thankly was not a fan of the previous Batman movies, and so he had an unbaised approach to Batman. Superman needs that, Superman movies need a director who has great respect for the suoerman character as a whole, not just the old superman movies and cartoons. Thats IMO is what all superhero movies need, a director who is not a fanboy, but has a respect and admiration for the character as a whole comics,movies, etc.
I agree with this.

[DavidTyler]

I mostly agree. It really irks me when a studio makes a CB film without sticking to the source material, and then wonder why it failed/underachieved.
It just makes you wanna grab them by the shoulders, shake them, and say, HELLLOOOO??, a cloud? a frakin cloud? are you kidding us?.

SR failed because of the lack of action, not because it was different to the CB. Batman 89 says hi.

Pick out where I said anything about S.R......and hi back to Batman 89.:batman:

Batman 89 had the "cool" thing going on...SR....did not.

and for all the deviations in B89, it stuck very close to the mood, atmosphere and characterisation of many of the various comicbook interpretations.

so there.

The reason B89 was a success is two-fold..... for one, it had Jack Nicholson (I didn't like his performance but he did make a spash as the character) and just by virtue of having him, it made the project high-profile.

The other contributing factor to it's success is this ... and it's a huge part of it ....

It got closer to the seriousness of Batman in the comics - totally squashing the 1960's series.... When the sequel came about, Batman Returns, the silliness started working it's way back in. By B&R it was back to or maybe worse than the 60's series.

So there you have it ... the farther from source and the less serious the film makers take a comics based project, the less likely the fan base is going to glom onto it and make it a success.

[Showtime]

What they need to do with Superman is tell an original story using story arcs and elements from the comics as was done with Batman Begins. Yes, I know Superman held up a car like Action Comics #1 and some more panels here and there but the rest came from the Donnerverse. It isn't rocket science, I don't know what WB is doing.

[Sam]

It isn't rocket science, I don't know what WB is doing.

Nothing.

[Mostpowerful]

WB is paralyzed by indecision AND incompetence.

[Showtime]

The doors have been shut and the cracks have been filled. There are much less leaks at WB/DC then before. They have done a good job keeping quiet with all properties, not just Superman. Notice the only information we are getting on Superman has come from Levitz, Horn, and the Legendary website. No more little bits of information from websites, from "insiders", or anywhere else.