Discussion: Gay Rights II

[Addendum]

So what if this dude was offended? If he doesn't like what's being said he can always move to another place. If the bar-owner doesn't like you running off patrons he can ask you to leave.

People have the right to be offended by whatever they want, I just don't have to care about it or respect it.

And that's my point. Since Silverstein's friend wasn't offended about being called a "two beer queer", tough **** if another person overheard it and got pissy.

[Majic Walrus]

And that's my point. Since Silverstein's friend wasn't offended about being called a "two beer queer", tough **** if another person overheard it and got pissy.

Yup. :up: It's not my job to make sure that you're living life and not being offended by anything.

[Darthphere]

Exactly... It only matters when you offend someone you care about. If you don't care about the outcome or who you've offended then don't worry about it.

So what if this dude was offended? If he doesn't like what's being said he can always move to another place. If the bar-owner doesn't like you running off patrons he can ask you to leave.

People have the right to be offended by whatever they want, I just don't have to care about it or respect it.

Weren't you the one flipping out because some dude tackled a little girl on a school bus with a gun? You have weird standards.

Perhaps. But was I argueing it?

Its like saying "SICK!" when something is cool, or calling someone dude, ect...

That's not even close to being the same thing.:huh:

[CelticPredator]

If I call a guy a ***, I dont mean homosexual. If I say thats gay, I dont mean homosexual.

Its a word. Sorry if it offends you, but thats just how it is right now. Why did Gay become an insult? I dont know. I didnt start it. I could stop saying it, but like the word Dude, it's stuck in my vocabulary.

[Manic]

If I call a guy a ***, I dont mean homosexual. If I say thats gay, I dont mean homosexual.

Its a word. Sorry if it offends you, but thats just how it is right now. Why did Gay become an insult? I dont know. I didnt start it. I could stop saying it, but like the word Dude, it's stuck in my vocabulary.

The 3-letter F-word means homosexual and cigarette and nothing else. And not only does it mean homosexual, but it's a negative epithet. You're not supposed to use it.

The word "gay" became an insult because calling someone homosexual was an insult. Thus, if you said someone is gay, you'd be questioning their sexuality and implying that being a homosexual is bad. By saying something is gay, you're implying that (again, using homosexuality negatively) the thing is something that a gay person would have/use/want.


I'll tell you what: Go around using the N-word as an insult for people. Do it and say that you're not using it in a racial context, but that you're using the N-word to mean "bad." Next time a friend of yours says something stupid, say "You're such a [N-word]" and see what happens.

Now go around calling people the C-word all the time and see how long it takes for a woman to kick you in the nuts.



I know we live in a world of political correctness, and some people see that as a stifle to our freedoms of speech and whatnot. You get terms like "Happy Holidays," "African-American," and "Differently Abled" thrown around all the time, but there's a nice and inoffensive middleground between being super-PC and an offensive jackass that you just have to find. Part of that means not using racially and sexually offensive terms to insult people. There's a fine line.

In short, don't be a re-re (intentional irony).

[katie_girl09]

So what if this dude was offended? If he doesn't like what's being said he can always move to another place. If the bar-owner doesn't like you running off patrons he can ask you to leave.

People have the right to be offended by whatever they want, I just don't have to care about it or respect it.
Wow! You really *are* mean!

[CelticPredator]

The 3-letter F-word means homosexual and cigarette and nothing else. And not only does it mean homosexual, but it's a negative epithet. You're not supposed to use it.

The word "gay" became an insult because calling someone homosexual was an insult. Thus, if you said someone is gay, you'd be questioning their sexuality and implying that being a homosexual is bad. By saying something is gay, you're implying that (again, using homosexuality negatively) the thing is something that a gay person would have/use/want.


I'll tell you what: Go around using the N-word as an insult for people. Do it and say that you're not using it in a racial context, but that you're using the N-word to mean "bad." Next time a friend of yours says something stupid, say "You're such a [N-word]" and see what happens.

Now go around calling people the C-word all the time and see how long it takes for a woman to kick you in the nuts.



I know we live in a world of political correctness, and some people see that as a stifle to our freedoms of speech and whatnot. You get terms like "Happy Holidays," "African-American," and "Differently Abled" thrown around all the time, but there's a nice and inoffensive middleground between being super-PC and an offensive jackass that you just have to find. Part of that means not using racially and sexually offensive terms to insult people. There's a fine line.

In short, don't be a re-re (intentional irony).


No. And yes, people go around calling each other N-ers. White people. White people TO black people. Black people TO white people.

"My N-a.!" They'd say.

And I can use any word I damn well please. Any. Word. I COULD go around saying the N word. But that would just get my ass kicked eh?

[CelticPredator]

Wow! You really *are* mean!
No, he just doesnt want to waste time worrying about someone elses feelings.

[Manic]

Ah, screw it. I'd call you something right now, but I'd just get an infraction.

[CelticPredator]

Good for you then. I was just making a point. You may not agree, but it's a fact. People use Gay and ***, and they dont always mean homosexual. Fact. Facty fact cat.

Dont belive me, go to a high school. Not saying we're the smartest bunch, but it happens.

[Franklin Richards]

Well I just got an infraction from Mister J., the day before yesterday for referring to pleasuring oneself. How the Hell is this guy not banned?


:D


Oh and listen to the Duffster.


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:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SuperFerret]

I don't understand how "gay" can change from meaning "happy" to "homosexual", but not from "homosexual" to "lame".

[Franklin Richards]

Hours clocked. Homosexuals have squatters rights.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Majic Walrus]

Wow! You really *are* mean!

I'm not really mean, I just don't go out of my way to make everyone happy. Although generally I don't use words like gay or *** just because I feel that being homosexual isn't a very good insult. I have much more creative insults.

[Manic]

You insensitive cretin.


*gets assaulted by someone from Crete*

[Marx]

I'm going to use a forum based issue that happend to me.

There was a thread about something, and someone said something about people spreading rumors about the dude pooping in school, or something. So, I said "Thats gay." Now, to most of the teenage population, "gay" doesnt mean "gay". It just means bad, or it sucks. True, it did have to do with gay people, but thats not the way I use it. I got an infraction for a "homophobic slur"...when it had nothing to do with anyone sexuallity.

Its just how things work. Like how Retard doesnt mean mentally handicapped, but a stupid person. Or how "***" means ass, or jerk, or douche.

Sorry for the naughty words, but thats the only way to get my point across.

The word 'gay' should never be used in a negative or derogatory way, whether it is on this forum or in real life. Period.

'Gay' is not a synonym for stupid.

[Darthphere]

Can I say how full of **** a lot of people in this thread are? Because they are. "I go around and say whatever I want, screw the consequences!" Full of ****. I consider myself a tough guy, I don't back down from anyone but I have common sense. I'm respectful of people's feelings and won't say something that I know is going to offend someone "Because I say whatever I want." I can joke with my friends, insult them, call them everything I want because they're my friends. But when I'm in public, it's called having common decency.

CelticPredator and Magic Walrus you guys want to continue the act of being real life badasses "I'll call a black guy the N-word in his face!" please continue to do so. I don't buy it.

[Manic]

That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Darthphere is made of awesome.

[CelticPredator]

The word 'gay' should never be used in a negative or derogatory way, whether it is on this forum or in real life. Period.

'Gay' is not a synonym for stupid.

Well it is now. You cannot change that. Millions of kids use this word, adults too. I didnt make it up, nor can I ever change it.

I dont understand why everyone thought I was ranting, I was just making a point, to go with this thread.

And where the **** did I say I was a badass? I just said I CAN say whatever I want, but there would be consquences.

And I can use any word I damn well please. Any. Word. I COULD go around saying the N word. But that would just get my ass kicked eh?

See? I do not go around saying whatever I want...but I COULD. Doesnt mean I would be scott free.

[CelticPredator]

That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Darthphere is made of awesome.

I would replace this word with another one...but this would get me an infraction....



LOOK HOW TUFF I IZ!111 :o

[Darthphere]

Well it is now. You cannot change that. Millions of kids use this word, adults too. I didnt make it up, nor can I ever change it.

I dont understand why everyone thought I was ranting, I was just making a point, to go with this thread.

And where the **** did I say I was a badass? I just said I CAN say whatever I want, but there would be consquences.



See? I do not go around saying whatever I want...but I COULD. Doesnt mean I would be scott free.

Yeah, and your point wasn't well thought out or any good to start with.

[CelticPredator]

You're a towel....

[Marx]

Well it is now. You cannot change that. Millions of kids use this word, adults too. I didnt make it up, nor can I ever change it.

I dont understand why everyone thought I was ranting, I was just making a point, to go with this thread.

And where the **** did I say I was a badass? I just said I CAN say whatever I want, but there would be consquences.

See? I do not go around saying whatever I want...but I COULD. Doesnt mean I would be scott free.

..so because others say it that makes it ok? I don't think so Celtic. (And I never called you a badass.)

[CelticPredator]

I never said it was OK. I apologized to the mod who infracted me, ect...I havent said it since...have I?

It just is. It is what it is. Gay went from happy, to homosexual, to lame. Heck, you can even go to other "less modded" forums, and people would call something lame "Gay".

[CelticPredator]

I think everyone missed/or I didnt make it clear, what my point was. The threads topic was about how a word can be said, and someone can mistake it for another meaning. Hence why I said, "I got infracted for saying "Thats Gay". Because the mod took it as a homophobic response. Which to me, isnt. Since I am around people who use that word every day, and it means "Bad, or Lame". Not always homosexual.

Thats all i'm saying. I wasnt ranting, or disagreeing with the mod that infracted me, nor was I trying to start a fight. I was a showing how one word can be used, and another person can get offended by it.

[Marx]

I never said it was OK. I apologized to the mod who infracted me, ect...I havent said it since...have I?

I haven't followed every one of your posts...but I am glad to hear that you haven't used it since.

It just is. It is what it is. Gay went from happy, to homosexual, to lame. Heck, you can even go to other "less modded" forums, and people would call something lame "Gay".

That's why I'm glad to be a part of this forum. Using words like that in negative, derogatory ways is not something that should be promoted.

[CelticPredator]

I dont mind it. Although, I would love a bit of freedom...not in the gay aspect...but in the Omegle poop aspect. :D

[Marx]

I think everyone missed/or I didnt make it clear, what my point was. The threads topic was about how a word can be said, and someone can mistake it for another meaning. Hence why I said, "I got infracted for saying "Thats Gay". Because the mod took it as a homophobic response. Which to me, isnt. Since I am around people who use that word every day, and it means "Bad, or Lame". Not always homosexual.

Thats all i'm saying. I wasnt ranting, or disagreeing with the mod that infracted me, nor was I trying to start a fight. I was a showing how one word can be used, and another person can get offended by it.

And what I am saying is that gay means gay as in homosexual. Gay does not mean stupid. It does not mean idiotic. It does not mean bad. It does not mean lame. The people you are around are using that word in a completely unacceptable way. (And you know that.) Just because they use it that way doesn't make it right. Not in the least.

[SuperFerret]

Eh, nevermind.

[Darthphere]

You're a towel....

My name is Anakin and I'm a person.

[CelticPredator]

My whole school uses it. Most kids I see uses it. Its not a small clique thing.

From Wiki...


This article is about "gay" as a term. For homosexuality, see Homosexuality (http://www.answers.com/topic/homosexuality). For other uses, see Gay (disambiguation) (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay-disambiguation).
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg)
This article needs additional citations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Inline_citations) for verification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability).
Please help improve this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gay&action=edit) by adding reliable references (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources). Unsourced material may be challenged (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fact) and removed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence). (January 2009)
The term gay was originally used, until well into the mid-20th century, primarily to refer to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"; it had also come to acquire some connotations of "immorality" as early as 1637.[1] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-etymonline-0)
The term later began to be used in reference to homosexuality (http://www.answers.com/topic/homosexuality), in particular, from the early 20th century, a usage that may have dated prior to the 19th century.[1] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-etymonline-0) In modern English (http://www.answers.com/topic/english-language), gay has come to be used as an adjective (http://www.answers.com/topic/adjective), and occasionally as a noun (http://www.answers.com/topic/noun-1), that refers to the people (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay-community), practices (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-sexual-behavior), and culture (http://www.answers.com/topic/lgbt-culture) associated with homosexuality (http://www.answers.com/topic/homosexuality). By the end of the 20th century the word gay was recommended by major style guides (http://www.answers.com/topic/usage) to describe people attracted to members of the same sex.[2] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-1)[3] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-2) At about the same time, a new, pejorative use became prevalent in some parts of the world. In the UK (http://www.answers.com/topic/united-kingdom), U.S. (http://www.answers.com/topic/united-states), and Australia (http://www.answers.com/topic/australia), this connotation, among younger generations of speakers, has a derisive meaning equivalent to rubbish or stupid (as in "That's so gay."). In this use the word does not mean "homosexual", so that it can be used, for example, of an inanimate object or abstract concept of which one disapproves, but the extent to which it still retains connotations of homosexuality has been debated. [4] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-3)[5] (http://www.answers.com/topic/gay#cite_note-4)

[Darthphere]

You're missing the point.

[Marx]

What Wikipedia says doesn't really mean a whole lot to me Celtic. :cwink:

[CelticPredator]

You're missing the point.

I got the point. Gay SHOULDNT be used as a synonym(sp) for bad. But it is. You cannot change that.

[Darthphere]

I got the point. Gay SHOULDNT be used as a synonym(sp) for bad. But it is. You cannot change that.

Jesus Christ you are thick.

So because everyone does it, it's ok. That's what you're saying?

[CelticPredator]

I'm thick? You're thick. I just said, no more then a few posts up it was NOT OK. I just said it IS what it IS. And you cannot change that.

[Marx]

Let's take a step back guys. If this thread is to remain open, this needs to be discussed respectfully and civily. There's no need for the attitude.

[Darthphere]

I'm thick? You're thick. I just said, no more then a few posts up it was NOT OK. I just said it IS what it IS. And you cannot change that.

Yeah you say that, then the next post you say something else. Stay consistent.

[CelticPredator]

No. I still dont think it's OK....but it's unfortuantly a part of my language. Oh I tried to stop, but its hard, and it slips.

[Marx]

To be fair Celtic, you are giving off two very different views. In one post, you say that it isn't ok, in another post you say 'you can't change it, all of the people I'm around say it, so oh well'.

[Darthphere]

No. I still dont think it's OK....but it's unfortuantly a part of my language. Oh I tried to stop, but its hard, and it slips.

Ok.

[Marx]

No. I still dont think it's OK....but it's unfortuantly a part of my language. Oh I tried to stop, but its hard, and it slips.

It's really not that hard to remove that word from your vocabulary.

[CelticPredator]

I am. I'm doing that on purpose. You cannot have a decent discussion with one view point.

Do I think it's OK. No.

Can I, or you change the fact that to my generation Gay means lame, and bad? No.

[CelticPredator]

It's really not that hard to remove that word from your vocabulary.

It is if everyone around you says it a 100 times a day. Which I suppose is why racist redneck hicks say the N word in that way. Raised on it.

(Not saying its right...it just is...)

[Marx]

I don't believe that 'gay means lame' to your generation.

[bullets]

I wouldn't go up to a gay person and start insulting them but it's fun to joke around with your buddies about it .

[CelticPredator]

I don't believe that 'gay means lame' to your generation.

Um...it does. Here, read this...
http://shoutweb.co.uk/jul06-a2.html



Radio1 DJ Chris Moyles rejected a ring-tone during his Breakfast Show on on Tuesday morning in June, telling his audience of 6.3 million young people that it was ‘gay’.
BBC governors have defended Moyles, stating that his use of ‘gay’ to mean ‘rubbish or lame’ was not homophobic, because this is a ‘widespread current usage among young people’.
‘In broadcasting to an audience of predominantly young people, it was to be expected that Chris Moyles would use expressions and words which the listeners used themselves,’ the committee’s report said.
They further said ‘The Committee did note that use of the word “gay” in the derogatory sense should be used with care given its potential to offend’.
‘Since school children now use “gay” to describe anything substandard or dysfunctional,’ says a press release from campaigning organisation Schools OUT, ‘they have ruled that it’s acceptable for Moyles to do so too. How many other playground insults and obscenities do they also consider acceptable?
‘The only reason that the word ‘gay’ has come to mean ‘substandard’ is because it is rooted in the idea that being gay is a bad thing which it is acceptable to ridicule.
Homophobic bullying is rife among young people in our schools, and countless lives are damaged forever by it. Few schools have an anti-bullying policy which tackles homophobic bullying. Few teachers have the competence and confidence to tackle this casual and cruel form of abuse.’
Claire Anderson of the Stamp Out Homophobia in Schools campaign said: ‘Victims of homophobic bullying will be made more vulnerable to abuse if there is any acceptance among staff or pupils that a derogatory use of “gay” is not a homophobic attack.’
Liberal Democrat Higher and Further Education Spokesperson, Stephen Williams MP, has written to BBC Chairman Michael Grade. ‘I have written to Mr Grade urgently seeking clarification on this extremely concerning ruling. The fact that “gay” is widely used as an insult by young people demonstrates that there is an objectionable tolerance to homophobic abuse in society. After recent research suggesting that gay people are almost invisible on the BBC’s flagship channels, the BBC needs to demonstrate its commitment to respecting our society’s diversity in its broadcasting.’

[Marx]

I wouldn't go up to a gay person and start insulting them but it's fun to joke around with your buddies about it .

It's fun to joke around with your 'buddies' about being gay? :huh:

[Marx]

Um...it does. Here, read this...
http://shoutweb.co.uk/jul06-a2.html

Ignorance should not be promoted. The fact that a DJ uses 'gay' negatively to an audience saying 'it's ok because the youth are saying it' is ridiculous.

[SuperFerret]

It's fun to joke around with your 'buddies' about being gay? :huh:

You've never jokingly made references about being homosexual around your friends?

[katie_girl09]

No, he just doesnt want to waste time worrying about someone elses feelings.
Oh, okay. That doesn't sound even remotely insensitive.

[CelticPredator]

Ignorance should not be promoted. The fact that a DJ uses 'gay' negatively to an audience saying 'it's ok because the youth are saying it' is ridiculous.

What can I say? People are *****.

And same for Katie's response. Some people simply dont care.

[Majic Walrus]

Weren't you the one flipping out because some dude tackled a little girl on a school bus with a gun? You have weird standards.


I flipped out because the dude decided his skills as a ****ing high school football player made him qualified to risk his and everyone else's life. It has nothing to do with his intent or motive, it had to do with the way he viewed himself in that situation.

Oh, okay. That doesn't sound even remotely insensitive.

It is insensitive to a point, but that's okay. I don't always have to care what other people think. I choose to act polite and courteous as often as I can because for me it has the most benefit. However, I do not go out of my way to be unoffensive to people when it isn't necessary. So many things offend so many people that I really don't have the desire to try and please them all.

Point of fact: I think that calling people "gay" makes you look pretty lame. Just imagine for a moment that an entire generation just decided that a word used to describe your lifestyle suddenly meant "lame". Go ahead.

It's rude and offensive to call anyone "gay" to many people gay or straight. However that doesn't mean that you have to give a **** about it. You can use whatever kind of language you like just be prepared to understand the consequences of those actions. People will get offended, people will think you are ignorant, and some people won't like being your friend. If you're okay with that... no big deal.

[Marx]

You've never jokingly made references about being homosexual around your friends?

No.

[SuperFerret]

That's odd.

[Marx]

That's odd.

I don't believe it's something to joke about. (That, and my friends aren't exactly open arms accepting despite their claims otherwise.)

[SuperFerret]

So, there was one time where me and my buddies were playing Rock Band and I was on vocals on the song "Hammerhead" by the Offspring (a song about soldiers), and during one of the "Oh"s in the lyrics, my voice cracked and it sounded sexual enough for someone to make a "You're enjoying yourself a bit too much" comment. Was my response of "Well, I do love a man in uniform" something I shouldn't have said?

[Marx]

I don't see anything wrong with that...then again, I don't see anything negative to that comment. (As opposed to using gay, queer, or *** in a negative light.)

[SuperFerret]

But that's "joking around with (my) buddies about being gay", even though I'm not.

[Marx]

Are you using the words gay, queer, or *** in a negative light? No, you're not.

[SuperFerret]

So it's just the words?

And there's actually another thing that's been nagging at me with regards to this thread. Why isn't "sucks" considered a gay slur? Saying that something "sucks" is generally saying that it "sucks ****" and portraying it in a negative light, yet it's an "appropriate" thing to say in most circumstances.

[Marx]

So it's just the words?

And there's actually another thing that's been nagging at me with regards to this thread. Why isn't "sucks" considered a gay slur? Saying that something "sucks" is generally saying that it "sucks ****" and portraying it in a negative light, yet it's an "appropriate" thing to say in most circumstances.

It's one thing to joke around about being gay, it's quite another to use those three words in such a negative, derogatory way.

[CelticPredator]

But...so what? People always joke around, everyone is racist/sexist in some way. And everyone has made a Racist or sexist joke.

Its not like SF is going up to gays and harrasing them. As a heterosexual male, I too have partaken in making fun. Its just what men do. Its not like we go out and kill gay people or nothing, or even make life worse for them. We're just goofing off with our buddies.

[Manic]

And there's actually another thing that's been nagging at me with regards to this thread. Why isn't "sucks" considered a gay slur? Saying that something "sucks" is generally saying that it "sucks ****" and portraying it in a negative light, yet it's an "appropriate" thing to say in most circumstances.
Fellatio isn't a gay reference. It's a reference to a sexual act that can be performed by either gender on a man, and I think people of either gender of any sexuality find it demeaning on some level. People who do give fellatio in their relationships don't take it lightly (that's not something someone does on the second date in a serious relationship), and those who do take it lightly are often insulted and mocked for their promiscuous submissiveness. Saying something sucks is a bad thing, but it's not an implied attack on any group of people except ****s (again, people in serious relationships are exempt from this group).

[Addendum]

If the "something" is a person, perhaps. If the "something" is a thing, no way.

[Silverstein]

Okay so I read back a few pages to catch up.

My view: It's not right to say something that you know to be offensive. If you say something like "Two Beer" whatever, after finding out that it's offensive, then you're a prick. If you say something like "That's Gay!" or something, because it's a common phrase or whatever, then you should be open to accepting the fact that it COULD be offensive to other people.


NOT defending or anything..But "gay" is commonly used to mean stupid and most people are not thinking of homosexuality at all in any way.

Guy: Dude, you want to go to Tina's house?
Dude: Haha No!
Guy: Heh, why?
Dude: You're gay! Tina doesn't even like you blah blah blah...

Now, I'm not supporting this. In fact, it -is- offensive and wrong. The correct wording and context would be:

Guy: Dude, you want to go to Tina's house?
Dude: haha, No!
Guy: Heh, why?
Dude: You're a dummy! Tina doesn't even like you blah blah blah....

It is there. And while it is wrong. Homosexual people are simply homosexual. Gay meant happy and was equally offensive and derogatory before. Just like how "black" is offensive and derogatory, but now wildly accepted as PC.

So, having it now mean dumb or lame, is offensive...But at the same time, it's not impossible to see how some don't view it that way. As the word that describes a person enjoying someone of the same sex already exists, and that word is "homosexual".


It is interesting to consider why any other sexual act is allowed to be mocked or treated "unfairly", but homosexuality is off limits. Not saying that any of the sexual acts -should- be mocked...It just seems interesting that if I say "Ew! You're a furry?" people laugh, no one is offended. And if someone calls a nympho a "whore" or "male ****", most people go along with it.

Even if a guy is mean or grossed out at the idea of a fat girl, or vice versa. It's okay to most of America. Or rather, it's okay to the media.

But a gay joke or comment is treated like it's a racial slur.

It's like "I can be offended at you, being offended at me", but "you can't be offended by me doing things that offend you sexually.."


I think some of the people a few pages back talking about people growing thicker skin may apply accurately in small doses. I mean, there's a difference between a vicious insulting intent and light hearted teasing or using the words for other things.

I have a friend who is homosexual and he jokingly calls one of his co-workers, (who is also homosexual), a *** and a "Overly enthusiastic and over zealous [f-bomb]"...So I guess it's like girls calling each other *****es or black people saying "Yo, my *****"..

Maybe it should be all or nothing. If it shouldn't be said, no one should say it.



My views are already addressed above. These following words have only been thoughts on the subject not my personal opinions.

[Silverstein]

Also...This thread was created because of the actual event that happened to me, and I wanted to know what people thought and stuff. If other posters insist on being pricks or if other posters want to fight for the right to be insensitive, that has nothing to do with me.

I'm not trying to be insubordinate or whatever, and I'd rather not get an infraction because other people get out of hand.


Long story short, I don't view anyone negatively because of their culture, creed or lifestyle choices. If other people do, or want to say things that imply they do...It's not my fault.

[Darth Rockwell]

See I am of the firm opinon that a word only has the power people give it. If people get offended by it then it continues to have power. Political correctness has made us pansies.

[The Guard]

Maybe it should be all or nothing. If it shouldn't be said, no one should say it.

Exactly.

[Marx]

Okay so I read back a few pages to catch up.

My view: It's not right to say something that you know to be offensive. If you say something like "Two Beer" whatever, after finding out that it's offensive, then you're a prick. If you say something like "That's Gay!" or something, because it's a common phrase or whatever, then you should be open to accepting the fact that it COULD be offensive to other people.


NOT defending or anything..But "gay" is commonly used to mean stupid and most people are not thinking of homosexuality at all in any way.

Guy: Dude, you want to go to Tina's house?
Dude: Haha No!
Guy: Heh, why?
Dude: You're gay! Tina doesn't even like you blah blah blah...

Now, I'm not supporting this. In fact, it -is- offensive and wrong. The correct wording and context would be:

Guy: Dude, you want to go to Tina's house?
Dude: haha, No!
Guy: Heh, why?
Dude: You're a dummy! Tina doesn't even like you blah blah blah....

It is there. And while it is wrong. Homosexual people are simply homosexual. Gay meant happy and was equally offensive and derogatory before. Just like how "black" is offensive and derogatory, but now wildly accepted as PC.

So, having it now mean dumb or lame, is offensive...But at the same time, it's not impossible to see how some don't view it that way. As the word that describes a person enjoying someone of the same sex already exists, and that word is "homosexual".


It is interesting to consider why any other sexual act is allowed to be mocked or treated "unfairly", but homosexuality is off limits. Not saying that any of the sexual acts -should- be mocked...It just seems interesting that if I say "Ew! You're a furry?" people laugh, no one is offended. And if someone calls a nympho a "whore" or "male ****", most people go along with it.

Even if a guy is mean or grossed out at the idea of a fat girl, or vice versa. It's okay to most of America. Or rather, it's okay to the media.

But a gay joke or comment is treated like it's a racial slur.

It's like "I can be offended at you, being offended at me", but "you can't be offended by me doing things that offend you sexually.."


I think some of the people a few pages back talking about people growing thicker skin may apply accurately in small doses. I mean, there's a difference between a vicious insulting intent and light hearted teasing or using the words for other things.

I have a friend who is homosexual and he jokingly calls one of his co-workers, (who is also homosexual), a *** and a "Overly enthusiastic and over zealous [f-bomb]"...So I guess it's like girls calling each other *****es or black people saying "Yo, my *****"..

Maybe it should be all or nothing. If it shouldn't be said, no one should say it.



My views are already addressed above. These following words have only been thoughts on the subject not my personal opinions.

Homosexuality is a little more than a sex act Silverstein. And when those words are used negatively, or in a derogatory way, it is the same thing as a racial slur. It has nothing to do with having thicker skin, it's a matter of respect and common decency.

[Majic Walrus]

Also, people might get offended if you use "furry" in a derogatory way but there just isn't as many homosexuals as furries.

Again though, why does anyone care?

[CelticPredator]

I called someone a green bag once in a "racist like" mannor. He got pissed.

You know what a green bag is? A green ****ing bag.

Odd huh?

[terry78]

Exactly.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Marx]

HOMOPHOBIC REPRESENTATIVE SALLY KERN COULD FACE TRANSGENDER CANDIDATE IN RE-ELECTION BID
http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_11790.php

Can you imagine a debate?

[Ghostvirus]

I had a youtube video in my signature for like 6 months that had a lot of swearing. So I honestly didn't think that video would have been a problem. My bad.

[Silverstein]

Homosexuality is a little more than a sex act Silverstein. And when those words are used negatively, or in a derogatory way, it is the same thing as a racial slur. It has nothing to do with having thicker skin, it's a matter of respect and common decency.

I understand, I'm not trying to fight being respectful. I agree with not using negativity or derogatory words.

I simply do not understand how homosexuality is more than or less of a sexual preference. I'm not being sarcastic or playing dumb...I really would like for you or someone to explain. I admit, I'm ignorant of this explanation.


It's like, for me...You like what you like. Whether it's girls, boys, whips, chains, furry costumes, specific races, etc...

I truly am not getting, right now, how one choice is different than another. I mean I understand that this specific choice (homosexuality) has had a long history of misunderstanding and hate thrown it's way...But it's the racists and sexists who have treated it like more than a choice.

Any one that I've met that was "gay", bi, or lesbian always treated it like apples and oranges.

It's like a large portion of society likes apples. You like oranges. Many people like either apples or oranges but don't care about other people's choices, just their own..So the ones who do care get pissed because you're not like them.

Sure the evil people made it different, but it's still a choice of apples and oranges.


Enjoying male company as a male, or females as a female, doesn't change anything outside of the bedroom. People are equal regardless of those choices.

I mean...at the core we're all the same.

[Addendum]

Unless you're talking about durians

[spideyboy_1111]

lol crazy

I also just got word my friend booked our DC tickets... so ill be in DC for the protest. Im actually excited to go, i haven't been to DC since 8th grade... wanna check out the museums and stuff.

[Silverstein]

What's a durian?

[Addendum]

What's a durian?

A fruit from Southeast Asia with a thorny husk, and very, very stinky. The odor of the raw fruit is so rank, some public establishments have "outlawed" it. One food writer has said "its odor is best described as pig-****, turpentine and onions, garnished with a gym sock."

[Master Chief]

I understand, I'm not trying to fight being respectful. I agree with not using negativity or derogatory words.

I simply do not understand how homosexuality is more than or less of a sexual preference. I'm not being sarcastic or playing dumb...I really would like for you or someone to explain. I admit, I'm ignorant of this explanation.


It's like, for me...You like what you like. Whether it's girls, boys, whips, chains, furry costumes, specific races, etc...

I truly am not getting, right now, how one choice is different than another. I mean I understand that this specific choice (homosexuality) has had a long history of misunderstanding and hate thrown it's way...But it's the racists and sexists who have treated it like more than a choice.

Any one that I've met that was "gay", bi, or lesbian always treated it like apples and oranges.

It's like a large portion of society likes apples. You like oranges. Many people like either apples or oranges but don't care about other people's choices, just their own..So the ones who do care get pissed because you're not like them.

Sure the evil people made it different, but it's still a choice of apples and oranges.


Enjoying male company as a male, or females as a female, doesn't change anything outside of the bedroom. People are equal regardless of those choices.

I mean...at the core we're all the same.

Not everyone in the world is as accepting as you are. There's prejudice everywhere, congrats on rising above. :up:
There's nothing to understand other than we're an intelligent species wrapped up in stupid ****.

[Marx]

I understand, I'm not trying to fight being respectful. I agree with not using negativity or derogatory words.

I simply do not understand how homosexuality is more than or less of a sexual preference. I'm not being sarcastic or playing dumb...I really would like for you or someone to explain. I admit, I'm ignorant of this explanation.


It's like, for me...You like what you like. Whether it's girls, boys, whips, chains, furry costumes, specific races, etc...

I truly am not getting, right now, how one choice is different than another. I mean I understand that this specific choice (homosexuality) has had a long history of misunderstanding and hate thrown it's way...But it's the racists and sexists who have treated it like more than a choice.

Any one that I've met that was "gay", bi, or lesbian always treated it like apples and oranges.

It's like a large portion of society likes apples. You like oranges. Many people like either apples or oranges but don't care about other people's choices, just their own..So the ones who do care get pissed because you're not like them.

Sure the evil people made it different, but it's still a choice of apples and oranges.


Enjoying male company as a male, or females as a female, doesn't change anything outside of the bedroom. People are equal regardless of those choices.

I mean...at the core we're all the same.

Simply put...for the 90-95 percent of people who are gay, it is not a choice.

[Silverstein]

Simply put...for the 90-95 percent of people who are gay, it is not a choice.

OOOH! The science thing...I forgot about that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone lol

Well to be most accurate...I did forget, but now that I remember I thought that the science thing was a theory that was debated. I didn't know it was like fact and stuff now.

Well now I seem like an insensitive prick. Thank you, public school.

[Silverstein]

Not everyone in the world is as accepting as you are. There's prejudice everywhere, congrats on rising above. :up:
There's nothing to understand other than we're an intelligent species wrapped up in stupid ****.

Thanks. But you seem accepting and understanding, too...Marx is! If just these three examples of people are out there, well, maybe there's hope for the world.

[Ace of Knaves]

I have a few homosexual friends. I also have no negative feelings about someone else's personal life choice. That being said, there are still phrases in the area that become common that are very offensive. I try not to use those slang phrases or quotes.

One such one is [possibly] calling someone a "two-beer queer" referring to someone who can't drink a lot without getting very drunk very quickly, maybe even after just two beers.

Now queer means bizarre or weird, so I guess it's the equivalent of calling someone a two beer lame-o or weirdo.


A few friends and I were at a P.J. Wheelman's (I guess it's a jersey bar/restaraunt but it might be international..I don't know), someone at another table got offended that I said that. A really flamboyant man.

Now, as I said, I don't have a problem with someone for being gay. But I have a problem with anyone that is trying to flaunt things in your face. Girls, guys, friends, enemies, anyone.

So he's all saying that I'm an insensitive homophobic jerk. And that I'm racist or whatever. Admittingly, we were all kind of making fun of our friend for being a Two-beer lame-o, and being loud. But I think the guy had one too many drinks and was just overreacting. So I'm like "Whatever, bro. Take a seat." and he gets pissed and walks away. Was I wrong?

I mean I did say "queer" but in no context of mocking anyone's lifechoice. I suppose it's like some of those daily phrases that are really racist but have some how been absolved over time. So I'm not saying it anymore. But do you think it's wrong?

I'd tell the prick to go take a running jump.

Or explain to him that queer doesn't actually mean gay.

[Master Chief]

lol maybe on the street, in a bar I'd buy him a pint to apologize.

Thanks. But you seem accepting and understanding, too...Marx is! If just these three examples of people are out there, well, maybe there's hope for the world.

Well it's not like an endangered mentality or anything. Live and let live. :up: A person is more than a label.

No matter what though, people until the end of time are going to be offended by significant and insignificant things because of values and morals and blahblahblah. Racism and sexism and all that good discriminatory stuff is gonna be around for a very long time, and all you can really do is try to not step on any toes; Even if that means just calling your bud a pussy instead of a 2-beer queer for being a cheap drunk. :o

[Majic Walrus]

Pussy can be pretty offensive to women, just like ****. It's a derogatory word that is also used to describe the female sex organs. Sounds like a dick thing to say.

[Master Chief]

Pussy can be pretty offensive to women, just like ****. It's a derogatory word that is also used to describe the female sex organs. Sounds like a dick thing to say.

It isn't derogatory, it's slang. :o I was mauled by a gang of kitty cats when I walked out of a club once though...

[Majic Walrus]

Slang is derogatory some times. I say use it. Pussy is one of my favorite things to say, but don't expect that to be somehow less offensive than queer. It all depends on your company.

[Master Chief]

It might be *vulgar, but it's not derogatory. Like, really, it isn't putting down anything when you refer to vag as pussy. :huh: But yeah, your last sentence is all that really matters. Anything can be offensive to someone somewhere, no matter how stupid their reasoning may be. :up:

edit: *apples and oranges LOL

[Majic Walrus]

:p Yeah, people who get offended so easily are usually just pussies.

[Manic]

Pussy can be pretty offensive to women, just like ****. It's a derogatory word that is also used to describe the female sex organs. Sounds like a dick thing to say.
I see what you did there.

[Marx]

OOOH! The science thing...I forgot about that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone lol

Well to be most accurate...I did forget, but now that I remember I thought that the science thing was a theory that was debated. I didn't know it was like fact and stuff now.

Well now I seem like an insensitive prick. Thank you, public school.

Did you choose to be attracted to the sex you're attracted to? I would encourage you to ask any gay person if they chose to be the way they are. I gurantee you that 9 out of 10 will say that the only choice they had in the matter was how long to hide it.

[Majic Walrus]

I see what you did there.

I'm glad someone did. :up:

[Sawyer]

nGrhItz7pQU

[katie_girl09]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Boooo!

[Tanin]

lol crazy

I also just got word my friend booked our DC tickets... so ill be in DC for the protest. Im actually excited to go, i haven't been to DC since 8th grade... wanna check out the museums and stuff.

Hope you enjoy it down here. The weather has been nice so far. Good luck with the protest.

I still need to hit up the museums myself. I just never have time. :(

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah, my friends paying for most of it, so hopefully will be a fun experience. i have a feeling the protest may be disappointing though

[Marx]

Don't let the protest get you down if it doesn't go well...there's plenty to see and do in DC! Make the most of it and enjoy yourself.

[spideyboy_1111]

haha well yeah, im going mostly for the fact it's DC and its a mini vacation... its less about the protest for me haha, thats just the occasion that brings me out there :)

[Dude101]

To be brutally honest I dont think gays should get rights. Cause thats nasty.

[CaptainClown]

I find ugly and fat people nasty they shouldn't get rights either.

[Bunker]

I can has troll.

[Dude101]

Cool thats your op.

[CaptainClown]

no its fact

[BlackLantern]

To be brutally honest I dont think gays should get rights. Cause thats nasty.

ok?? what kind of rights are we talking here?? should they not be able to vote and own guns?? because I don't think it's smart for you to be around a gay gun owner

[Dude101]

Okay fact cool. Im trying to stay a little headed here and maybe does weren't the right words and I was disrespectful for that I am sorry.

[Dude101]

ok?? what kind of rights are we talking here?? should they not be able to vote and own guns?? because I don't think it's smart for you to be around a gay gun ownerGetting married, every american deserves basic rights. And before anybody goes all this probably a religious problem or something its not im atheist. I just think gross. To be honest.

[CaptainClown]

So because it doesn't appeal to you, you feel it necessary to take away someones rights? Just seeing if we are on the same page.

Oh ya I also don't think woman should be able to use the cell phone while driving, it really does make me mad.

[Dude101]

Okay and as black man I know im on the wrong side of this debate because some people find us gross or nasty. And im sorry but in my heart of heart I just couldn't see me wanting them getting married its between man and a woman.

[BlackLantern]

<---black man and that is your "belief" that marriage should be between a man and a woman

I believe a marriage is two consenting adults who love and are committed to each other

[Dude101]

Well I dont. And well if theres one thing about living in a ******* red state. Atleast I wont see it.

[Ion Kenshin]

Can I ask how it would affect your personal life? We are not marrying you. We are not harming your personal well being in anyway. What if someone was denying you something that everyone received as a right no questions asked but your were not? I will never understand this. Take the gay/straight concept out of the marriage argument and it basically boils down to a human being being denied a right.

[BlackLantern]

but it is "nasty"....its a sound legal argument

[Dude101]

Yeah but thats the point there still gay and I just dont feel comfortable knowing they are getting married or trying to. It doesn't have to harm, it just have to harm mind.

[Dude101]

Lol, that wasn't the best set of words but yes its just grosses me out in many ways.

[Ion Kenshin]

So if people think someone or something is gross then they don't deserve a right? This is basically what you are saying. Good thinking. Please pass on it on to your kids. Help spread this brave new world of thinking. I'm sure we will all get along this way.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Lol, that wasn't the best set of words but yes its just grosses me out in many ways.

You've stated it ad nauseum. We get it. However, I'm warning you with regards to your choice of language: I don't want to see the usage of the term "Queen" in here unless you're referring to the rock group, got it?? :dry:

That goes for everyone.

[Marx]

Yeah but thats the point there still gay and I just dont feel comfortable knowing they are getting married or trying to. It doesn't have to harm, it just have to harm mind.

So...you want to deny equal rights because it's 'icky' to you? You don't see that as a bit ridiculous? You think you should have a say so over another persons' life that doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form?

[Schlosser85]

And im sorry but in my heart of heart I just couldn't see me wanting them getting married its between man and a woman.


They're complete strangers, what does it matter if you "want them" to get married.

If I came along and said you shouldn't have the right to get married because, even though I've never met you in my life, I just don't like the look of you and I don't think you should get married, would you think I was ridiculous?

[Dude101]

I really dont care I dont think they have the right to get married its between a man and a woman.

[Marx]

I really dont care I dont think they have the right to get married its between a man and a woman.

Ok. Then the next question becomes, you do realize that the definition of marriage has changed over the course of time, right?

It was once illegal for inter-racial marriages. It was once acceptable to have more than one wife.

[wiegeabo]

"Well I think the right to get married is between a white man and white woman."

Which is what people were saying not so long ago. What makes one form of discrimination acceptable over another form?

[spideyboy_1111]

To be brutally honest I dont think gays should get rights. Cause thats nasty.

i think divorce, greed, adultury, white trash, ignorance, addicts, users, losers, *******s, fake people, and massive obesity is all gross to but they have rights. get over yourself

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay and as black man I know im on the wrong side of this debate because some people find us gross or nasty. And im sorry but in my heart of heart I just couldn't see me wanting them getting married its between man and a woman.

sooo its perfectly ok for two people [male and female] to get married and hate eachother, get divorced, but not ok for a same sex couple to fight for and prove there love by wanting it recognized so badly... to not be given the right to do so?

[hippie_hunter]

I really dont care I dont think they have the right to get married its between a man and a woman.

Why? What's wrong with same sex marriage at a civil level?

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah but thats the point there still gay and I just dont feel comfortable knowing they are getting married or trying to. It doesn't have to harm, it just have to harm mind.

notice you say “i dont feel comfortable” that speeks volumes right there, you're the one with a problem, not us. I accept you as a biggoted black athiest and would be very upset if you lost rights. why cant you accept me?

[Franklin Richards]

Some men just want to watch the whole world burn.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Dude101]

notice you say “i dont feel comfortable” that speeks volumes right there, you're the one with a problem, not us. I accept you as a biggoted black athiest and would be very upset if you lost rights. why cant you accept me?

I cant really respond to every else comments right cause I have to go. But first why are you trying make this a race thing cause its not. I just find homosexuality wrong period.It doesn't have to bother me on a civil level or government level but it bother me on a personal. I dont want to see gays have the right to get married. The word can change as many times as it wants but its always been between man and woman.

[Nivek]

But first why are you trying make this a race thing cause its not.

Your right, it's not, it's an equal rights thing. Gay rights don't effect you and your daily life, but referring to them as "nasty"... pure ignorance. Thats pretty screwed up that you project that onto yourself like that. You can't catch "Gay". :whatever:

[Schlosser85]

I dont want to see gays have the right to get married.



Why do these people think it matters if they want to see us have the right to get married?? :whatever:

Nothing to do with you, NOT UP TO YOU, butt out and mind your own business.

Seriously, the arrogance. "I don't want to see you get married"...WELL THEN DON'T WATCH ME GET MARRIED.

There's all kinds of things I "don't want to see", like welfare abusers buying brand new cars and the way a formerly beautiful, and safe, city like Warren, OH has been increasingly swallowed by trashy ghetto until it's a shell of its former self and people are afraid to walk at night the way they did thirty years ago. Or on the flip side, corporate executives getting obscenely massive bonuses while the company goes bankrupt...nowhere else do people get rewarded for not doing their job.

I don't like to see massively obese people. It doens't mean I think they should be locked up somewhere so I don't have to see them.

[BlackLantern]

I think we should hunt the homeless for sport....

[BlackLantern]

I think we should hunt the homeless for sport....

[Ion Kenshin]

I really dont care I dont think they have the right to get married its between a man and a woman.
Where has this been said. What written document, law, guidebook or whatever states that marriage should be solely between a man and a woman. So you basically think it is okay to deny a human being a right that everyone else receives. :whatever: People like you a ridiculous. All you see is the fact that you don't like the way a person is and the life they live. It is ignorance plain and simple. No human being should be denied any rights not matter what. I would love to know how people would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. What if straight people the world over were tolf they were not allowed to get married because two straight people together is just gross. What are we in second grade??? It's childish and wrong and if peopl can't see that this country is worse off than it seems. Gotta love America. Home of the free ....as long as you are like everyone else.

[Nivek]

I think we are dealing with someone under 18 here.

[Ion Kenshin]

I wouldn't be surprised if we weren't. The younger generations coming up are actually more open and accepting of people. That's one of the things I have been saying as well. The government is mostly filled with people still in the "old world" mentality. With moer of the younger generation moving up and taking offices I think the changes will be seen more and more.

[CaptainClown]

I think it is mostly a troll to be honest.

[amazingfantasy15]

Okay and as black man I know im on the wrong side of this debate because some people find us gross or nasty. And im sorry but in my heart of heart I just couldn't see me wanting them getting married its between man and a woman.

I cant really respond to every else comments right cause I have to go. But first why are you trying make this a race thing cause its not. I just find homosexuality wrong period.It doesn't have to bother me on a civil level or government level but it bother me on a personal. I dont want to see gays have the right to get married. The word can change as many times as it wants but its always been between man and woman.

Back in the '60s people found it wrong for your parents and grandparents to sit in the front of the bus or drink from the same water fountain or vote, do you think they were right to deny your parents and grandparents equal rights? This is going to sound racist, but it isn't, just trying to make a point, maybe you should start sitting in the back of the bus again.

[Marx]

I cant really respond to every else comments right cause I have to go. But first why are you trying make this a race thing cause its not. I just find homosexuality wrong period.It doesn't have to bother me on a civil level or government level but it bother me on a personal. I dont want to see gays have the right to get married. The word can change as many times as it wants but its always been between man and woman.

The definition of marriage has changed many times throughout the course of history. Period.

[Anita18]

See, this is why having a real discussion is so difficult. I have yet to come across an anti-gay marriage believer who actually has a strong argument. It's either "That's how it's always been" or "It's gross!"

Normally, this also happens when the person believes they don't know any gay people. :funny: I think my sister should introduced my conservative cousins to some of her friends in San Francisco...:hehe:

[BillyZaned]

You've stated it ad nauseum. We get it. However, I'm warning you with regards to your choice of language: I don't want to see the usage of the term "Queen" in here unless you're referring to the rock group, got it?? :dry:

That goes for everyone.

NO I DON'T





I really like the Queen of England.... now I can't talk about her? This is BS:woot:

[BillyZaned]

See, this is why having a real discussion is so difficult. I have yet to come across an anti-gay marriage believer who actually has a strong argument. It's either "That's how it's always been" or "It's gross!"

Normally, this also happens when the person believes they don't know any gay people. :funny: I think my sister should introduced my conservative cousins to some of her friends in San Francisco...:hehe:

here's my argument... let them join together in a Union, that entitles every right associated with being married... just don't call it "marriage"...

I think the term Marriage should just be between a man and a women... gay couples can have their own term...

gay couples can been together, have the same tax beneifts, everything a married couple has... everything.... and I really think that's what the whole gay marriage thing is about... leave the term Marriage as is

[wiegeabo]

If there's no difference between marriage and civil union, than what's the point in not calling it marriage?

[BillyZaned]

If there's no difference between marriage and civil union, than what's the point in not calling it marriage?

to keep the relgious sector happy...

and that's why I purpose that... I honestly really don't care... but in their eyes, it will make it difference....

in a way, by doing that, you can pee down their backs, and they will beleive it's raining

[Nivek]

Screw the Religious sector, they caused enough pain, death, heartache already.

Besides, they are so concerned about marriage, they should work harder to stop divorce.

[Marx]

I honestly think that it should be called 'marriage' because that's what it is. I think marriages should then be divided into 'civil marriage' and 'religious marriage'.

[Anita18]

Even some parts of the religious sector are becoming more accepting of gays. Heck there's even a few gay bishops around in the Episcopalian church. But the Episcopalians were always the cool religious folks. :funny:


I honestly think that it should be called 'marriage' because that's what it is. I think marriages should then be divided into 'civil marriage' and 'religious marriage'.
I like this idea. I find the whole "getting married" thing to be kind of a sham, especially if it's a religious ceremony involving non-religious couples.

[Ion Kenshin]

Also I truly don't think there is pleasing or quieting the religious end. As far as they are concernce gay marriage will ruin the institution and meaning of marriage. They could never meet a gay person in their life but the mere fact that we can get married will piss the of to no end.

[BillyZaned]

Also I truly don't think there is pleasing or quieting the religious end. As far as they are concernce gay marriage will ruin the institution and meaning of marriage. They could never meet a gay person in their life but the mere fact that we can get married will piss the of to no end.

but their so easy to fool....I mean, they are religious:wow::wow::wow:

[Ion Kenshin]

but their so easy to fool....I mean, they are religious:wow::wow::wow:
So am I.

[BillyZaned]

So am I.

easy to fool?

[Ion Kenshin]

easy to fool?
Hahahahah I had a feeling that you were gonna say that. No I am fairly religious. Although my God says that we are supposed love each other as we love ourselves and see God's design in everyone. But I think the Bible my church gave me was defective since the people trying to stop this don't seem to have that in theirs.

[wiegeabo]

Religion isn't the problem.

It's the blind and narrow interpretations of it that are. But people are free to believe what they want. It's not like the government would force churches to perform gay marriages, just give them the option. Abject fear and judgment convince them the world would end if it was allowed.

Which is strange because plenty of gay marriages have been performed already and I don't think the world's ended...

[BillyZaned]

Hahahahah I had a feeling that you were gonna say that. No I am fairly religious. Although my God says that we are supposed love each other as we love ourselves and see God's design in everyone. But I think the Bible my church gave me was defective since the people trying to stop this don't seem to have that in theirs.

then explain to me why so many are against everyone having access to healthcare?

I lost my faith years ago... and don't see it coming back... when I heard that Bush went into Iraq to fight the demons phrophised in Revolations... I was like.... whooo hoooo hooo... I need to look at who I'm siding with here

[BillyZaned]

I just can't beleive in a singular all knowing being...

and any argument I hear "for god" is the basis that you can't disprove him... which in my mind is crazy...

[Marx]

I like this idea. I find the whole "getting married" thing to be kind of a sham, especially if it's a religious ceremony involving non-religious couples.

A division in marriage certificates is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[Ion Kenshin]

then explain to me why so many are against everyone having access to healthcare?

I lost my faith years ago... and don't see it coming back... when I heard that Bush went into Iraq to fight the demons phrophised in Revolations... I was like.... whooo hoooo hooo... I need to look at who I'm siding with here
:huh: I am confused by where that question came from in regards to my post.

[Marx]

Let's leave the healthcare debate to the healthcare thread please.

[Ion Kenshin]

I'm lost but okay.

[Marx]

I am pre-emptively striking down a healthcare debate in here. It's start with one simple question and snowballs. :cwink:

[Anita18]

I'm lost too. :funny: But whatever.

[BillyZaned]

:huh: I am confused by where that question came from in regards to my post.


lol... sorry, hot on my mind... you could say your talking tylenol right now, and I will turn it into a healthcare debate...

sorry, lol....

[Sloth7d]

Even some parts of the religious sector are becoming more accepting of gays. Heck there's even a few gay bishops around in the Episcopalian church. But the Episcopalians were always the cool religious folks. :funny:





Is it really acceptance though or perhaps a public relations move meant to placate homosexual rebels? I find most established religious christian churches that have gay ministers to be more patronizing than accepting.

[Marx]

I think there are some churches that are genuinely accepting.

[spideyboy_1111]

I cant really respond to every else comments right cause I have to go. But first why are you trying make this a race thing cause its not. I just find homosexuality wrong period.It doesn't have to bother me on a civil level or government level but it bother me on a personal. I dont want to see gays have the right to get married. The word can change as many times as it wants but its always been between man and woman.

some cultures religiously allow people to marry animals... so no, it hasn't "always" been a man an a woman. You're wanting ME denied a right that doesn't affect you in a single way... only because of your own issues in toleration.

[spideyboy_1111]

here's my argument... let them join together in a Union, that entitles every right associated with being married... just don't call it "marriage"...

I think the term Marriage should just be between a man and a women... gay couples can have their own term...

gay couples can been together, have the same tax beneifts, everything a married couple has... everything.... and I really think that's what the whole gay marriage thing is about... leave the term Marriage as is

so you're a supporter of "seperate but equal" then? what's next.. gay bathrooms? gay drinking fountains? come on man... it's a massive slap in the face saying "strait people are still better ... better then you gays"

[Lightning Strykez!]

I think it is mostly a troll to be honest.

Well, if that's the case, someone's days will be limited. :nono:

[spideyboy_1111]

then explain to me why so many are against everyone having access to healthcare?


it all really boils down to the fact people are greedy... consider the poor being poor there own fault and don't want any of there money going to them for healthcare... you know.. how christian it is to be greedy and all.. :whatever: it boggles my mind how conservatives can be the "most religious" yet completely ignorant to the book they follow.

[Ion Kenshin]

Dude you gotta use that multi quote button

[spideyboy_1111]

Let's leave the healthcare debate to the healthcare thread please.

oops sorry, but my message goes with the same genre still of the book practicing love and acceptance and them basically ignoring that.

[Marx]

You're fine Spidey. I just don't want healthcare to hijack this thread. :cwink:

[Sloth7d]

I think there are some churches that are genuinely accepting.


Really? The only ones I've known like that are prodominantly gay churches. Though I often wonder why a gay person, or really even women for that matter, would be a christian in the first place with some of the oppressive statements contained in the Bible.

[Marx]

Really? The only ones I've known like that are prodominantly gay churches. Though I often wonder why a gay person, or really even women for that matter, would be a christian in the first place with some of the oppressive statements contained in the Bible.

A couple of churches in my area just recently voted to recognize gay unions. I believe that there are quite a few across the nation that are as genuinely accepting.

Just because you're gay, doesn't mean that you can't be religious or deeply spiritual.

[wiegeabo]

Really? The only ones I've known like that are prodominantly gay churches. Though I often wonder why a gay person, or really even women for that matter, would be a christian in the first place with some of the oppressive statements contained in the Bible.

It's that wonderful ability they have to pick and choose what parts of the Bible they believe in. That's why it's ok to not have slaves, but disallow gay marriage.

[Dude101]

God please stop with the race thing. Gays has have human rights they just wanna get married. Its not like blacks who couldn't vote, eat with white people, etc. I see gays doing that all the time. So like I said this isn't and cannot be compared to actions that people put on my people. Gays have it great compared to what we had.

[wiegeabo]

Severity doesn't matter. Having it worse doesn't make it ok to discriminate against someone else.

And just because it's not exactly the same, doesn't make the comparison invalid. Just different. The Mexicans had to put up with garbage. As did the Chinese, the Irish, the Jews, the Native Americans (who might have had it worst of all in this country since they were nearly exterminated).

[Dude101]

Whatever agree to disagree.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Rather compelling, if I must say so myself.

[Sloth7d]

A couple of churches in my area just recently voted to recognize gay unions. I believe that there are quite a few across the nation that are as genuinely accepting.

Just because you're gay, doesn't mean that you can't be religious or deeply spiritual.

I didn't say a gay person couldn't be religous, but how they came to pick christianity as that religion is a little beyond me. Same with women. The teachings treat women as incompitent pieces of property and gays like evil monsters.

It's that wonderful ability they have to pick and choose what parts of the Bible they believe in. That's why it's ok to not have slaves, but disallow gay marriage.

And eat lobster and shrimp! Never forget how a family of christians can pray over a Red Lobster dinner while not realizing how much it pisses God off.

[Sloth7d]

God please stop with the race thing. Gays has have human rights they just wanna get married. Its not like blacks who couldn't vote, eat with white people, etc. I see gays doing that all the time. So like I said this isn't and cannot be compared to actions that people put on my people. Gays have it great compared to what we had.

I'm one of "your people" yet I think it can be compared. However, noone in this thread said the discrimination of black people is the exact same thing as the discrimination of gay people. Obviously, both sides were attacked in different ways due to the nature of what each side is, but why is it that you don't realize both sides were and are discriminated against, thus opening the door for the comparison.

[CaptainClown]

I believe that it is not as severe as racial discrimination however it is still just as valid.

[Marx]

I didn't say a gay person couldn't be religous, but how they came to pick christianity as that religion is a little beyond me. Same with women. The teachings treat women as incompitent pieces of property and gays like evil monsters.

My apologies to you Sloth, I didn't mean to come off that way. I know that's not what you said. The same question could be said for any person who follows any particular religion -why? No one knows the reasoning but each individual person.

[wiegeabo]

Whatever agree to disagree.

Well, if you want to disagree, then explain to me why it's ok to discriminate against someone?

Blacks were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Chinese were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Mexicans were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Irish were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Native Americans were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Homosexuals...see the pattern?


Yes, the degrees and types of abuse each had to put up with were different. Yet they were/are discriminated against. So what makes one form discrimination ok as opposed to another. In a country where we are supposed to have equal protection under the law, and where discrimination based on birth (like ethnicity) and on choice (like religion) are illegal, somehow it's ok to discriminate against gays (regardless of whether they are born that way, or chose to be that way)?

Because it's gross may be a valid opinion (because everyone is entitled to their opinion), but it's certainly not a valid basis for a law.

[Marx]

Well, if you want to disagree, then explain to me why it's ok to discriminate against someone?

Blacks were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Chinese were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Mexicans were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Irish were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Native Americans were considered inferior. And from that came the hatred and bigotry that racism breeds.

The Homosexuals...see the pattern?


Yes, the degrees and types of abuse each had to put up with were different. Yet they were/are discriminated against. So what makes one form discrimination ok as opposed to another. In a country where we are supposed to have equal protection under the law, and where discrimination based on birth (ethnicity) and on choice (religion) are illegal, but somehow it's ok to discriminate against gays (regardless of whether they are born that way, or chose to be that way).

Because it's gross may be a valid opinion (because everyone is entitled to their opinion), but it's certainly not a valid basis for a law.

Well said, wieg.

[Dude101]

To me its not discrimination. To me its just keeping what is right in USA. Marriage between man and women just likes it suppose to be. And secondly im not a bigot or a discriminating against gays I just feel that gays marriage is just wrong.

[Marx]

To me its not discrimination. To me its just keeping what is right in USA. Marriage between man and women just likes it suppose to be. And secondly im not a bigot or a discriminating against gays I just feel that gays marriage is just wrong.

You have yet to acknowledge what I keep saying, the definition of marriage has changed throughout the course of time. It was once acceptable to have multiple wives. It was once illegal for inter-racial couples to marry.

You have basically said that you don't want this to happen because you think it's 'icky'. And that's the only basis you have. A basis, that I might add, is not a valid reasoning for legislation.

[Dude101]

Im not a politician, im not going to be making any bills. I can any reason I want. Its not my job to make any laws about this I just believe marriage is between Man and Woman, yes laws and have change sometimes to include differences but there have always been at least between man and a woman. They have never included men and men or woman and woman. I' hope it stays that way at least in my state.

[Marx]

That's true, you don't have the power to make any bills.

Can I ask you an honest question though? Do you personally know any gay people?

[Dude101]

No, because in New Orleans where I live are only that word I cant say type of gay person.

Rant Mode. I believe the f word doesn't applied to regular gay people but to people like that. Its just pisses me off cause it seems they play into the sterotype. I wouldn't be bother by gay people or call it icky if wasn't for those type of gay people. It makes it very hard to support people like that.
Rant mode off.

[Sloth7d]

My apologies to you Sloth, I didn't mean to come off that way. I know that's not what you said. The same question could be said for any person who follows any particular religion -why? No one knows the reasoning but each individual person.

I agree, I just find it weird is all. It's sort of akin to a nerd trying to be friends with his bully imo, though at least in this example the bully can be changed while scripture is unchanging. But I digress. I really don't like talking about religion except in the threads specifically made to debate them.

[Anita18]

That's true, you don't have the power to make any bills.
But he has the power to vote on them.

No, because in New Orleans where I live are only that word I cant say type of gay person.
Yes, but do you KNOW any of them personally?

Some of my sister's friends are super-flamboyantly gay, but they're awesome people and great fun to be around. There's nothing disgusting about them at all.

[CaptainClown]

Rant Mode. I believe the f word doesn't applied to regular red headed people but to people like that. Its just pisses me off cause it seems they play into the sterotype. I wouldn't be bother by red headed people or call it icky if wasn't for those type of red headed people. It makes it very hard to support people like that.

It is like a fill in the blank thing, just replace the person with a group of your choosing.

[Sloth7d]

To me its not discrimination. To me its just keeping what is right in USA. Marriage between man and women just likes it suppose to be. And secondly im not a bigot or a discriminating against gays I just feel that gays marriage is just wrong.

You do realize that individuals who commit injustices against another usually don't think they're in the wrong right? There are still many supremacists who feel being born black is a sin against nature, and ,in fact, believe killing them is justice.

[Dude101]

Man, No I wouldn't want to be around it cause it can be very annoying when they are at school( The girls bring them at dances) I dont want to be around them period. I think I could be around a regular gay person but hell to those flambos.

[CaptainClown]

Ok on a sort of related note, I did want an entourage like Ruby Rod in Fifth Element. Loads of fun.

[Dude101]

edit

[Dude101]

Sloth I realized that, but I dont blame them tho cause thats how they were raised from gramps to their pops. People change, maybe one day I'll be able to change my mind. this is just my opinion and I am not gonna change it.

[Anita18]

Bwahahahahahaha.

In early September, I heard Sacramento's own John Marcotte had filed a petition with the California Secratary of State.

John is trying to get a voter's initiative onto the 2010 ballot here in California.

We spoke on September 9th.


Rob Cockerham: John Marcotte. You've filed a petition with the Secretary of State, in an effort to get a voter's initative on the California 2010 ballot.

John Marcotte: Yes. Filed the paperwork on September 1. It's the "2010 California Marriage Protection Act." I am trying to ban divorce in the state of California.

RC: Wow, that is amazing. Could it really happen? What steps remain to make this initiative into a valid, enforced law?

John: I am trying to extend the good work done with Proposition 8 last year. It could really happen. The United States has not always had divorce as an institution the way we do now. As a ballot initiative it bypasses the legislature and the governor. It's the will of the people made law.

RC: Are you going to hit the streets collecting signatures for the initiative?

John: We're going to set up a table in front of Wal*Mart and ask people to sign a petition to protect traditional marriage. We're going to interview them about why they thing traditional marriage is important, and then we'll tell them that we are trying to ban divorce.

People who supported Prop 8 weren't trying to take rights away from gays, they just wanted to protect traditional marriage. That's why I'm confident that they will support this initiative, even though this time it will be their rights that are diminished. To not support it would be hypocritical.

We're also going to collect signatures in front of "Faces," the largest gay nightclub in Sacramento.

RC: Can gay and unmarried people sign the petition to make this California Law?

John: Anyone can sign the petition as long as they are a registered voter in California. Sinners signatures work just as well as saints. That brings up and interesting point. We are a Christian nation. Jesus said, "What God has put together, let no man separate." Divorce is a sin. Fun fact: Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality. Probably some sort of clerical oversight that will be rectified in the end of days...

http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/divorce/divorce.php

:lmao:

John's official site is pretty awesome as well: http://rescuemarriage.org/

[Schlosser85]

His site is hilarious, lol.

"Jesus still loves you if you get divorced...just not as much as before"

[spideyboy_1111]

Dude you gotta use that multi quote button

can't. my monitor burned out, and am forced to use my wii

[spideyboy_1111]

God please stop with the race thing. Gays has have human rights they just wanna get married. Its not like blacks who couldn't vote, eat with white people, etc. I see gays doing that all the time. So like I said this isn't and cannot be compared to actions that people put on my people. Gays have it great compared to what we had.

i believe there's over 1000 rights that one is entitled to with a marriage though... even in california who nearly gets all those rights, still has hundreds we don't get which differ between a civil union and marriage. A legal marriage is much much much more then a word. And is very much a legal right to all.

[spideyboy_1111]

Whatever agree to disagree.

but you need to explain why and back up your beliefs with logic rather then personal "it's yucky" opinion as a valid reason. Which you're not, and it makes you sound like a bigot who has no idea what he's talking about.

[spideyboy_1111]

No, because in New Orleans where I live are only that word I cant say type of gay person.

Rant Mode. I believe the f word doesn't applied to regular gay people but to people like that. Its just pisses me off cause it seems they play into the sterotype. I wouldn't be bother by gay people or call it icky if wasn't for those type of gay people. It makes it very hard to support people like that.
Rant mode off.

wow dude.. step out of you're little close minded box.. there's plenty of non flaming, sparkling "divas" in new orleans... How would you like it if I said New Orleans black population is nothing but ignorant, lazy, criminals? I saw plenty of blacks raiding stores during hurricane katrina, and everyone sure looked poor... Must mean you're all like that.

you get my drift? stop making assumptions, and making decisions based off of them.

[spideyboy_1111]

Sloth I realized that, but I dont blame them tho cause thats how they were raised from gramps to their pops. People change, maybe one day I'll be able to change my mind. this is just my opinion and I am not gonna change it.

..... you do realize people arn't "raised" to be flamboyant, or gay .. right? Why do you think so many homosexuals come from families that are completely not like them? lol. You think the jock, conservative father honestly raised his son to wear glitter?

[Dude101]

wow dude.. step out of you're little close minded box.. there's plenty of non flaming, sparkling "divas" in new orleans... How would you like it if I said New Orleans black population is nothing but ignorant, lazy, criminals? I saw plenty of blacks raiding stores during hurricane katrina, and everyone sure looked poor... Must mean you're all like that.

you get my drift? stop making assumptions, and making decisions based off of them.There whites,cops, and blacks looting. Some for food, some for just unnecessary items, tho it was fine to me they weren't going to do nothing with those things anyway.

Like I said in New Orleans where I live. The hood, not the French Quarter with with the regular gay people.

[Marx]

Let's all keep this debate civil and respectful. If you cannot do that, I would encourage you to find another thread to post in.

[Dude101]

..... you do realize people arn't "raised" to be flamboyant, or gay .. right? Why do you think so many homosexuals come from families that are completely not like them? lol. You think the jock, conservative father honestly raised his son to wear glitter?
I was talking about Racists southerners.

Tho I think people are born gay and become gayer over time(notice that they act differently than others.).

[Marx]

I was talking about Racists southerners.

Tho I think people are born gay and become gayer over time(notice that they act differently than others.).

There are not varying levels to homosexuality. Whether you are gay, and its barely noticable, or you are very flamboyant, depends on your personality.

[Dude101]

Not that, im talking about they like men or women.

[Marx]

I'm sorry Dude101, but I am genuinely having a hard time deciphering your posts.

[Franklin Richards]

Dude, if we put you in a dark room and tied your hands behind your back. Someone starts rubbin' on you. I bet your little buddy will react.


Does that mean all people are born gay?



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[spideyboy_1111]

There whites,cops, and blacks looting. Some for food, some for just unnecessary items, tho it was fine to me they weren't going to do nothing with those things anyway.

Like I said in New Orleans where I live. The hood, not the French Quarter with with the regular gay people.

my point though was the fact not all blacks are like that in new orleans.. and most arn't.. even though the media made it appear so. Just because you see the loudest and most "f___y" of gay guys.. due to the fact they stand out, doesn't mean the majority are like that. After all... the majority of blacks probably arn't lazy ignorant criminals. See my point?

[CaptainClown]

Ya i am genuinely confused on that one. I think he is saying if you like men or women...actually no... you know what I don't know....

[spideyboy_1111]

I was talking about Racists southerners.

Tho I think people are born gay and become gayer over time(notice that they act differently than others.).

you're generalizing again... who are these others? Blacks act different then whites, chinese act different then blacks... were all different.

[CaptainClown]

The way he is describing gay it sounds like a disease that as you get older it affects you more. Despite the fact we have Sir Ian McKellen...If age was a factor then Ian would be very What what in the butt..

[Dude101]

Dude, if we put you in a dark room and tied your hands behind your back. Someone starts rubbin' on you. I bet your little buddy will react.


Does that mean all people are born gay?



:thing: :doom: :thing:
No it wouldn't.

[Marx]

No it wouldn't.

I don't really like the road this thread is starting to go down...all I will say on this particular subject is this - if you were restrained somewhere in a dark room, and you couldn't tell who was in the room with you, and that person starting coming onto, never saying a word, you would become aroused.

That's just common sense.

[wiegeabo]

Ya i am genuinely confused on that one. I think he is saying if you like men or women...actually no... you know what I don't know....


I think he's saying they like men or women more as they get older...you know, become more gay or something?

Sort of how like straight people become more straight as they get older...wait, what?

[spideyboy_1111]

No it wouldn't.

every tried it? dude guys wake up with boners, and can get them as easily in highschool as you're school bus hitting a bump the right way...

trust me.. if you thought it was a girl you'd get aroused.

and hey.. i know this will completely horrify you, but alot of bartenders and actors in gay bars/porn are straight! Definately not all.. but there are several who are...

girls can be with a girl a time or 2 and still be considered straight.. and not even bisexual... so a straight guy getting aroused by a guy at some point in his life doesn't make him gay either.

To me sex is sex.. when it all boils down to it... being Gay and Straight are living lifestyles based upon your gender attraction.

hell i've been with a few straight guys.. one was just something he wanted to try (is happily married to a girl now) and hes honestly one of my best friends and it was just something adventurous he wanted to try. Another one likes having a guy dominate him everyonce in a while (out of thrill) but romantically and sexually tends to prefer women, I'd call him bisexual if it werent for the fact he falls in love with women, not men, and the men things happens far less. And then i know a guy who is straight who's flat out told me im the only gay guy he could fall in love with. He prefers women as well... but really enjoys talking to me.

It's all about how open your mind is honestly, and learning to think on your own not on societal views.

[Dude101]

Naw, that doesn't fit me.

[Dude101]

To be honest, im sorry im not in your open little world, but there two kinds of sex for men. Straight and gay sex. I only like one and would never try the other.

[Marx]

To be honest, im sorry im not in your open little world, but there two kinds of sex for men. Straight and gay sex. I only like one and would never try the other.

Let's lose the condescension Dude.

[spideyboy_1111]

To be honest, im sorry im not in your open little world, but there two kinds of sex for men. Straight and gay sex. I only like one and would never try the other.

my open world is pretty big actually.. thus why it's OPEN... lol. you live in a little narrow box it seems.

[spideyboy_1111]

honestly i'm realizing more and more that many (cant say majority, but i do assume it) straight men get just as curious about same sex at some point in there life as women. Men are just extremely private about it and most will never admit it. But there's several sites ive been on... including one that is for "buddy masterbation" between guys gay and straight... where many post stories and stuff.. and it actually gets alot of straight visitors. They may not be wanting anal sex... but hell many gay guys can tell you at least one "experiment" with a straight guy they had growing up...

[Dude101]

Okay im gonna leave a little while cause this thread is making me uncomfortable.

Majority, hell no.

[Paradoxium]

I'm curious would any of the gay guys here do a "more-female-looking" male pseudohermaphrodite? I ask cause of the recent Semenya thing.

[wiegeabo]

Okay im gonna leave a little while cause this thread is making me uncomfortable.

Majority, hell no.

You seem to rely on stereotypes and your own personal feelings rather than any kind of facts.

[Dude101]

First I was replying to spidey boy where he said that straight men, many(but he thinks its the majority) have " gay experiments". Where he said it was opinion, just like my statement was.

[CaptainClown]

Isn't there a study like 2/3 of men have "experimented" or something like that er not experimented had a gay experience. I dunno where i read that, I think I should start looking that up.

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay im gonna leave a little while cause this thread is making me uncomfortable.

Majority, hell no.

how would you know? like i said.. most guys keep it incredibly private. Men will go to great lengths to not have there masculinity tarnished.

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm curious would any of the gay guys here do a "more-female-looking" male pseudohermaphrodite? I ask cause of the recent Semenya thing.

i personally wouldn't, but there's definately people who would.

[spideyboy_1111]

Isn't there a study like 2/3 of men have "experimented" or something like that er not experimented had a gay experience. I dunno where i read that, I think I should start looking that up.

i've read something about that before. Men and Women are actually alot alike when it comes to sex. In reality, Women want it just as much as men, and many women will admit to having thoughts about a girl or even trying something so it's pretty safe to assume men do the same. Problem is men have the masculinity they feel they need to hold up, while its almost acceptable for women to have a bisexual experience these days.

The study i believe ranged from homosexual attraction/thoughts/ and actual physical experience I believe. Would be interesting if someone could find it though.

[Marx]

I have heard about a study like that...I can't remember what the name of it was though.

[MaskedManJRK]

honestly i'm realizing more and more that many (cant say majority, but i do assume it) straight men get just as curious about same sex at some point in there life as women. Men are just extremely private about it and most will never admit it. But there's several sites ive been on... including one that is for "buddy masterbation" between guys gay and straight... where many post stories and stuff.. and it actually gets alot of straight visitors. They may not be wanting anal sex... but hell many gay guys can tell you at least one "experiment" with a straight guy they had growing up...

I can see that--I'm sure there's a lot more male curiosity, but it's no where near as acceptable as female curiosity since many people seem to think that a man having sexual relations with other men makes him less masculine. If there wasn't that stigma, I imagine there'd be just as many male "two-beer queers" as there are women.

Isn't there a study like 2/3 of men have "experimented" or something like that er not experimented had a gay experience. I dunno where i read that, I think I should start looking that up.

If you ever find it post it, I'd be very interested in reading that.

[Dude101]

To be perfectly honest, im kind of glad for that stigma. I would never want my child to be gay and that would just help.

[spideyboy_1111]

yea, ive seen alot of proof from "2 beer queers" in straight men.. from personal experience to friends. And no... its not something like a gay guy seduced them or anything with alcohol...

hell my best friend joe i grew up with (Whos now happily married) we use to mess around a few times, he told me he's the only guy he'd actually do anything with, but it was just something he needed to get out of his system.. and after he got married and had a kid he's never once tried to come on to me, or ask to sleep in my bed like he use to.

I think people have a really weird stigma when it comes to straight male on male sex... a straight woman can mess around with a woman, and still be called straight, a gay man can mess around with a woman (yup i know several who have before at some point in there life) and still be called gay... but heaven forbid a straight guy messes with a guy, and he's labled gay/bi the rest of his life... it's honestly quite stupid.

and this just proves further to me that it's really not about the intercourse.. its about the heart, and what gender you just typically feel better with.

[spideyboy_1111]

To be perfectly honest, im kind of glad for that stigma. I would never want my child to be gay and that would just help.

you do know he very well could be gay... and there's not a damn thing you could do to change that.

and no that stigma does the complete opposite. Majority of homophobic people and gay bashers tend to actually have extreme latent homosexuality (that's actually been proven) and that comes from the over driven male stigma that a man has to always be macho, never cry, and pretty much be an a-hole. That stigma also really messes up alot of young gay kids, and is one of the reason they feel so out of place and many are at risk of suicide for feeling different and unaccepted.

[Marx]

To be perfectly honest, im kind of glad for that stigma. I would never want my child to be gay and that would just help.

I would sincerely hope that you wouldn't cast out your child, should they turn out to be gay.

[Marx]

you do know he very well could be gay... and there's not a damn thing you could do to change that.

and no that stigma does the complete opposite. Majority of homophobic people and gay bashers tend to actually have extreme latent homosexuality (that's actually been proven) and that comes from the over driven male stigma that a man has to always be macho, never cry, and pretty much be an a-hole. That stigma also really messes up alot of young gay kids, and is one of the reason they feel so out of place and many are at risk of suicide for feeling different and unaccepted.

I'm not sure that I would say a majority, but a good number of them yes.

[Dude101]

I dont know I mean I dont know if I could accept it. But I would would always love my child, just not his ways I guess but I dont know and I hope to god I dont have to go tru that.

[Marx]

I dont know I mean I dont know if I could accept it. But I would would always love my child, just not his ways I guess but I dont know and I hope to god I dont have to go tru that.

If you do have to go through it, I hope that you would continue to love your child as normal. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality. The gender that a person is attracted to does not change the character of that person.

[spideyboy_1111]

I dont know I mean I dont know if I could accept it. But I would would always love my child, just not his ways I guess but I dont know and I hope to god I dont have to go tru that.

you should indeed always love you're child, you may wish things would be different... but you should be happy if your child is happy.

alot of parents these days want there kids to grow up in there own image they see fit... and if you focus on that, you will most likely be disappointed. Just raise you're kid with love, respect and how to treat people. They can't help who they end up loving, and neither can you.

[Marx]

you should indeed always love you're child, you may wish things would be different... but you should be happy if your child is happy.

alot of parents these days want there kids to grow up in there own image they see fit... and if you focus on that, you will most likely be disappointed. Just raise you're kid with love, respect and how to treat people. They can't help who they end up loving, and neither can you.

Well said Spidey. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not sure that I would say a majority, but a good number of them yes.

large amount has been proven indeed. Unfortunately we can't see whats in peoples heads though... so im still going to go with a majority, considering most cases of abuse in general are caused from the abusers own insecurities upon the very people who embody those insecurities (such as the raped becoming a raper, a molested becoming a molestor, an abused becoming an abuser etc... )

[Dude101]

I guess i'd rather have him be gay than be a thug and go to prison. Atleast he have a choice to be have butsex. LOL

[wiegeabo]

I guess i'd rather have him be gay than be a thug and go to prison. Atleast he have a choice to be have butsex. LOL

Dammit, that made me laugh.

But I agree. I'd rather have a gay child who's a productive member of society than a straight kid who's in prison.

Or, to put it another way, I'd prefer to have a productive kid in general than one in jail.

[spideyboy_1111]

indeed. and dude101, if your kid did turn out gay, and fell in love and was truly happy... wouldn't you want to see him or her happier by being allowed to marry the person he/she loves?

[Dude101]

God thats a good spideyboy. You know you want whats best for your child and to be honest I would never want hurt my child but I believe that he and his spouse should uh just get a civil union. But this is long time away and with you guys you've change my mind a little bit but not at this moment.

[Charlie No-One]

After reading some of this thread, what really blows my mind is the whole categorization of different "types" of gay people. I see it from homophobic and homosexuals people alike. The homosexuals who say that "flamers" are a disgrace to the community especially sicken me.

People are people. Let them live their life. I probably would fall into the stereotype most people have for gay people. I like pop/electronic music, I am not hugely into sports, I do theatre, etc. But all that stuff is just superficial to what really matters. Stereotypes mean nothing. To say that I am what is holding the gay rights movement back is disgusting and I commonly see that brought up in this thread in the past and present.

Sorry if this seems like it comes from the middle of nowhere but it has been bothering me for a while.

[Marx]

After reading some of this thread, what really blows my mind is the whole categorization of different "types" of gay people. I see it from homophobic and homosexuals people alike. The homosexuals who say that "flamers" are a disgrace to the community especially sicken me.

People are people. Let them live their life. I probably would fall into the stereotype most people have for gay people. I like pop/electronic music, I am not hugely into sports, I do theatre, etc. But all that stuff is just superficial to what really matters. Stereotypes mean nothing. To say that I am what is holding the gay rights movement back is disgusting and I commonly see that brought up in this thread in the past and present.

Sorry if this seems like it comes from the middle of nowhere but it has been bothering me for a while.

To be fair, I think there are a good number of people who see overly flamboyant gay men, or actions that take place at pride festivals/parades and it turns them off. (Even the most tolerant, accepting people find that a bit awkward.)