The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread)

[Marx]

Man, that WOULD be awkward. Though, I suppose there are people who are into that sort of thing.

jag

That's just disturbing to think about.

[jaguarr]

That's just disturbing to think about.

"Honey, you KNOW your father and I are a Trojan household and if you're not going to use the family brand then you'll just have to engage in mutual masturbation until you can buy the right brand."

jag

[Marx]

"Honey, you KNOW your father and I are a Trojan household and if you're not going to use the family brand then you'll just have to engage in mutual masturbation until you can buy the right brand."

jag

:wow:

*runs out of the room screaming in horror*

[DBella]

Exactly. Mom can't be over her shoulder (or his, shall I say), saying, "Here, honey, make sure he puts this on!"
That is disturbing. :csad:
Man, that WOULD be awkward. Though, I suppose there are people who are into that sort of thing.

jag
I am sure there are.
*looks suspiciously at jag*

[StorminNorman]

Thanks for your well thought out answer, Norm.

Are you saying that one of the reasons she's picked by McCain was to court "women and former Hilary voters"? Do you think that a lot of women vote based on gender? If that is the case, I'd be scared.

I absolutely believe that her gender played into the pick - a part of the VP's job is the win the President the election. Its no more offensive to pick a woman expecting her to help with the women demographic than it is to pick a guy from Ohio because he could help with Ohio voters.

I believe McCain picked Palin because she gives him his own symbol of change. She is a reform minded politician that actually has a record of reform (Obama can not point to any achievement that indicates he actually can bring change in Washington, or that he will work across party lines). I think McCain picked Palin because he see's a lot of himself in her- she is a politician that is not afraid of butting heads with her party for the good of her people. She has made a lot of enemies in the Alaskan GOP - just like McCain does in the National Party. I think McCain picked Palin because she appeals to the conservatives and energizes the base he desperately needs - there vote is not enough, he needs their money and their time, with her she gets it.

I also think McCain picked Palin because she has a vagina and he is hoping that like equipped voters will give him a second chance because of it. I think some women will vote for Palin because of that as well - her getting the VP spot WOULD be a great achievement for her gender. Politics aside, for a woman to become Vice President DOES break a glass ceiling that has been in Washington since day one. It would be a first and I think that that first is very significant - no matter how much she may disagree with a large amount of women about abortion.

[danoyse]

Really? I didn't know that she was a supporter of 'abstinence-only' in schools. I don't know if it's hypocrisy though for she may have taught her daughter that. Although, I must agree that it must be embarassing for her to champion 'abstinence-only' education and seeing it fail in her own home.

Here's the story:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palin-backed-abstinence-education/

Palin backed abstinence education
Posted: 02:00 PM ET
(CNN) – Sarah Palin, who announced on Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, indicated during her run for Alaska governor that she was a firm supporter of abstinence-only education in schools.

In a 2006 Eagle Forum questionnaire, Palin indicated that she supported funding abstinence-until-marriage education programs instead of teaching sex-education programs.

"Explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," Palin wrote in the conservative group’s questionnaire.


And see how well that worked out? What's also making them look bad is that it appears McCain's team is headed to Wasilla for damage control, and that they've really just started their vetting process.

I have a feeling if they could do it over again, they would have picked someone else.

[StorminNorman]

That is disturbing. :csad:

Or sexy.

*thinks of double Palin threesome*

:oldrazz:

[The Senator]

"Honey, you KNOW your father and I are a Trojan household and if you're not going to use the family brand then you'll just have to engage in mutual masturbation until you can buy the right brand."

jag

Of all the things to write... of all the things to talk about... you had to discuss mutual masturbation. In the PALIN household.

My. GOD.

I may be sick.

[StorminNorman]

And see how well that worked out? What's also making them look bad is that it appears McCain's team is headed to Wasilla for damage control, and that they've really just started their vetting process.

No one objective actually thinks that. And if they do, they are idiots. The idea that McCain did not vet Palin is so incredibly insulting to his intelligence and every person in his campaign staff.

[jaguarr]

Or sexy.

*thinks of double Palin threesome*

:oldrazz:

:lmao: Norman comes in and makes it even worse. I approve! :up:

jag

[jaguarr]

Of all the things to write... of all the things to talk about... you had to discuss mutual masturbation. In the PALIN household.

My. GOD.

I may be sick.

:hehe:

jag

[Marx]

Of all the things to write... of all the things to talk about... you had to discuss mutual masturbation. In the PALIN household.

My. GOD.

I may be sick.

:lmao:

[The Senator]

Or sexy.

*thinks of double Palin threesome*

:oldrazz:

:barf:

Do all Alaskans-- do all Alaskans have moosenuckle?

[lazur]

True, it's not possible for parents to keep an eye on their children 24 hours a day but like you said, at least instill strong values and decency and, common sense within them. If the daughter has some common sense instilled in her, maybe she'd have use birth control, or at least insist on the guy using a condom before having sex. Having a child while still a child herself is irresponsible, imo.

Agreed, but children are children are children. I have a teenage daughter, and believe me it's a deliberate, constant effort on my part to keep her thinking and grounded in reality. But she's also made some stupid decisions along the way. Fortunately, nothing as catastrophic as becoming pregnant. She and I discuss *everything*, but I also have the advantage of having raised her myself for 14 years.

Point being, even as close as my daughter and I really are, I know that she will still go out and make 'typical' teenage mistakes. Sexual energy as a teen is overwhelming. Sure, she was stupid for not using a condom, but she's also a teenager...

So... you're saying that if she's 13 you'd not have brush it aside that easily?

I would agree with that. At the age of 13, even though my daughter had gone through puberty, I managed as a parent to keep her life fairly innocent and moderated. It wasn't until 16 that she really began to experience 'young adult' freedoms - ie, going to the movie with a boy without a shaperone.

It's always a tough thing when you have to let your kids go and hope that they make the right decisions. But just because a kid does make a piss-poor decision, it doesn't make Mom or Dad a bad or incapable parent.

[StorminNorman]

:barf:

Do all Alaskans-- do all Alaskans have moosenuckle?

:wow: Quick - to Daily Kos! Palin's 3:00 a.m. Moose hunting trips were actually lesbian trysts! :wow:

[The Senator]

:wow: Quick - to Daily Kos! Palin's 3:00 a.m. Moose hunting trips were actually lesbian trysts! :wow:


The straight world can keep her. :down:

[jaguarr]

Report on Monogan
6UojMnCgqVA

Damn. This is going to get really, really ugly.

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

No one objective actually thinks that. And if they do, they are idiots. The idea that McCain did not vet Palin is so incredibly insulting to his intelligence and every person in his campaign staff.
Yeah it is, but shame on him...because every major news network now is reporting that the vetting process has just started recently.

[ShadowBoxing]

Damn. This is going to get really, really ugly.

jag
McCain is probably glad, for the moment, that her teenage daughter's pregnancy is the main story and not this. Although on Larry King tonight one pundit rightly pointed out she'll probably be in a prison cell by the time the debates start. I could easily see McCain dropping her before the sh** hits the fan with this story.

[Thinkton]

1992-1996 — Entered public life, serving two terms on the Wasilla City Council.

1996-2002 — Elected mayor of Wasilla City, Alaska, for two terms until term limits forced her from office.

2002 — Frank Murkowski left the Senate to become governor and named Palin chairwoman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

2003 — Split with the party leaders by battling Randy Ruedrich, the head of Alaska's Republican Party.

2006 — Upset then-Gov. Murkowski in the Republican primary, then defeated former two-term Gov. Tony Knowles, a Democrat, in the general election.

2007 — Pressured lawmakers to get the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act passed, to build a natural gas pipeline to deliver 35 trillion cubic feet of North Slope natural gas to market.
Aug. 29, 2008 — Chosen as Sen. John McCain's vice-presidential running mate in the 2008 election.

[DBella]

I absolutely believe that her gender played into the pick - a part of the VP's job is the win the President the election. Its no more offensive to pick a woman expecting her to help with the women demographic than it is to pick a guy from Ohio because he could help with Ohio voters.

I believe McCain picked Palin because she gives him his own symbol of change. She is a reform minded politician that actually has a record of reform (Obama can not point to any achievement that indicates he actually can bring change in Washington, or that he will work across party lines). I think McCain picked Palin because he see's a lot of himself in her- she is a politician that is not afraid of butting heads with her party for the good of her people. She has made a lot of enemies in the Alaskan GOP - just like McCain does in the National Party. I think McCain picked Palin because she appeals to the conservatives and energizes the base he desperately needs - there vote is not enough, he needs their money and their time, with her she gets it.

I also think McCain picked Palin because she has a vagina and he is hoping that like equipped voters will give him a second chance because of it. I think some women will vote for Palin because of that as well - her getting the VP spot WOULD be a great achievement for her gender. Politics aside, for a woman to become Vice President DOES break a glass ceiling that has been in Washington since day one. It would be a first and I think that that first is very significant - no matter how much she may disagree with a large amount of women about abortion.
I do see those points you made that I had bolded and have thought the same and agree with those reasons.

But can we really put politics aside just to put a woman in that position? What about what she stands for when it comes to women's issues? Does she support a woman's the right to choose and is she for equal pay (among other things that concerns women)? I am sure there are women who are pro-life like her so she'll definitely get their votes.

Here's the story:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palin-backed-abstinence-education/

Palin backed abstinence education
Posted: 02:00 PM ET
(CNN) – Sarah Palin, who announced on Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, indicated during her run for Alaska governor that she was a firm supporter of abstinence-only education in schools.

In a 2006 Eagle Forum questionnaire, Palin indicated that she supported funding abstinence-until-marriage education programs instead of teaching sex-education programs.

"Explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," Palin wrote in the conservative group’s questionnaire.


And see how well that worked out? What's also making them look bad is that it appears McCain's team is headed to Wasilla for damage control, and that they've really just started their vetting process.

I have a feeling if they could do it over again, they would have picked someone else.
If only people were to stop treating 'sex' like it's a bad thing... The important thing to educate people and make them realize that with sex comes responsibility. It doesn't matter if the sex is great or not, but the responsibilities and consequences of the action can still be great and life-changing.
Or sexy.

*thinks of double Palin threesome*

:oldrazz:
Haha! O Norm! I am sure that's the MAIN reason you're voting for her. :o :oldrazz:

[jaguarr]

McCain is probably glad, for the moment, that her teenage daughter's pregnancy is the main story and not this. Although on Larry King tonight one pundit rightly pointed out she'll probably be in a prison cell by the time the debates start. I could easily see McCain dropping her before the sh** hits the fan with this story.

It will destroy his campaign if he drops her. It will destroy his campaign if this stuff blows up and she winds up being found guilty. It will destroy his campaign...maybe I should have just stopped there.

jag

[Marx]

Evangelicals rally behind Palin after pregnancy news
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/evangelicals-rally-behind-palin-after-pregnancy-news/





(I guess I'm not that surprised...this woman seems perfect and untouchable among the hard right. :whatever: If this were a democrat, however...I have a funny feeling it would be a different story.)

[ShadowBoxing]

It will destroy his campaign if he drops her. It will destroy his campaign if this stuff blows up and she winds up being found guilty. It will destroy his campaign...maybe I should have just stopped there.

jagDropping her would probably be the lesser of two evils in the face of an ethics scandal.

[StorminNorman]

I do see those points you made that I had bolded and have thought the same and agree with those reasons.

But can we really put politics aside just to put a woman in that position? What about what she stands for when it comes to women's issues? Does she support a woman's the right to choose and is she for equal pay (among other things that concerns women)? I am sure there are women who are pro-life like her so she'll definitely get their votes.

Thats the question women have to ask themselves. Many will say no - but some will say yes and it is that some that McCain wants. Not all Hillary female voters agreed with Hillary on every issue either.

I think people that vote on abortion are voting on an irrelevant issue. I truly believe abortion will never be outlawed in America, we have had conservative leaders for all but 8 of the last 28 years, and Abortion is still legal, nothing has happened.

I am personally very very pro-choice, but its never an issue that is going to make or break a candidate for me.

Again, though, I think it is incorrect to believe that Palin being a Vice President does not benefit her gender as a whole and I think that should be considered by any woman voter who has not decided who to support.

[JLBats]

I'm glad that at the end of the day we're all laughing together about sexual Palin jokes.

That's bipartisanship at it's best.

[StorminNorman]

(I guess I'm not that surprised...this woman seems perfect and untouchable among the hard right. :whatever: If this were a democrat, however...I have a funny feeling it would be a different story.)

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.

[jaguarr]

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.

Nahh. I'd slam a Dem for the same crap.

jag

[StorminNorman]

The keyword being almost, of course.

[Marx]

The keyword being almost, of course.

Yeah, I'd like to think I distribute my criticisms fairly equally. :cwink:

[jaguarr]

The keyword being almost, of course.

Stupidity and bad judgment know no party lines. In this instance, it was Palin. Some other time it will be a Dem or a Libertarian or a Green Party candidate.

jag

[DBella]

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.
Partisanship sucks. And hypocrisy, stupidity and bad judgment doesn't discriminate. I've seen a few level-headed liberals here and I doubt party association matters when it comes to criticizing others. :o :up:

[bunk]

I think Nader's guy Matt Gonzalez, could be a cereal killer and nobody would notice haha.

[ShadowBoxing]

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.Yeah we would, but the difference is most liberal pundits are criticizing the right for taking a moral high ground on these issues, specifically in her case of pushing abstinence only education, and then becoming a case study of that type of education and moral stance ineffectiveness. Obama has already stated that her children are off limits, and I have yet to hear anyone I watch criticize her personal judgement. What has been called into question is the quickness of the right to attempt to cover for her when we know damn well this is not the viewpoint they espouse in policy and politics.

[JLBats]

I think Nader's guy Matt Gonzalez, could be a cereal killer and nobody would notice haha.

I guess if he's only killing, like, Cap'n Crunch or something everyone would be down.

[Thinkton]

This is why she is Governor of Alaska. Wach this video.

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/10/12/2/a-conversation-with-governors-janet-napolitano-sarah-palin

[JackMercy]

Heh.

Ok, who added "dehydrated babies" to the Tags?

:lmao:


:word:

[Franklin Richards]

Hey! Leave the Cap'n out of this.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Warhammer]

Damn, this b**** raisin' ****s. :o

I think Nader's guy Matt Gonzalez, could be a cereal killer and nobody would notice haha.

So that's why I haven't seen anymore Trix commercials with the rabbit, or the dog in the Cookie Crisp commercials.

:csad:

[JLBats]

So that's why I haven't seen anymore Trix commercials with the rabbit, or the dog in the Cookie Crisp commercials.

:csad:

I won, I'm a quick draw, you see.

[redfirebird2008]

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.

That is a poor assumption on your part. I actually agree with Palin on abortion and I am happy that their family is supporting Bristol in this matter. What I do NOT agree with Palin on is abstinence-only education. In today's culture where sex is so rampant literally on every TV show, movie, song that's released, etc., it is very difficult to keep kids and young adults from having sex before marriage. The very least that should be done is teaching them about condoms, pregnancy, and STD's. Abstinence-only should be taught in the home and encouraged at school but not the ONLY thing taught at school.

[UA-Archangel]

That is a poor assumption on your part. I actually agree with Palin on abortion and I am happy that their family is supporting Bristol in this matter. What I do NOT agree with Palin on is abstinence-only education. In today's culture where sex is so rampant literally on every TV show, movie, song that's released, etc., it is very difficult to keep kids and young adults from having sex before marriage. The very least that should be done is teaching them about condoms, pregnancy, and STD's. Abstinence-only should be taught in the home and encouraged at school but not the ONLY thing taught at school.

Quick question, who brought on the society that is seeped in sexuality and made every bit of media an advertisement for sex - the ones that advocated free love of course.

And just who advocated free love - probably not those moralistic conservatives.

[Franklin Richards]

Because nobody knew about sex before Hollywood.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[DBella]

That is a poor assumption on your part. I actually agree with Palin on abortion and I am happy that their family is supporting Bristol in this matter. What I do NOT agree with Palin on is abstinence-only education. In today's culture where sex is so rampant literally on every TV show, movie, song that's released, etc., it is very difficult to keep kids and young adults from having sex before marriage. The very least that should be done is teaching them about condoms, pregnancy, and STD's. Abstinence-only should be taught in the home and encouraged at school but not the ONLY thing taught at school.
I was thinking... that maybe her daughter made that mistake because Palin didn't talk to her daughter about sex, about birth-controls and assume that her daughter is on the same page with her with regards to abstinence. It's one thing to have sex, but another to have sex and get pregnant at such a young age. That not only shows a lack of good judgment but also, maybe, a lack of sex education or knowledge on the subject.

[bunk]

I guess if he's only killing, like, Cap'n Crunch or something everyone would be down.

Hey! Leave the Cap'n out of this.


:thing: :doom: :thing:



So that's why I haven't seen anymore Trix commercials with the rabbit, or the dog in the Cookie Crisp commercials.

:csad:

I don't appreciate being mached. I'm seriously about to lose my patients hear!:cmad::woot:

[DorkyFresh]

And just who advocated free love - probably not those moralistic conservatives.
no, but the conservatives seem to have more bizarre sex scandals...most likely due to their inability to freely express their love.

[StorminNorman]

That is a poor assumption on your part. I actually agree with Palin on abortion and I am happy that their family is supporting Bristol in this matter. What I do NOT agree with Palin on is abstinence-only education. In today's culture where sex is so rampant literally on every TV show, movie, song that's released, etc., it is very difficult to keep kids and young adults from having sex before marriage. The very least that should be done is teaching them about condoms, pregnancy, and STD's. Abstinence-only should be taught in the home and encouraged at school but not the ONLY thing taught at school.

I have received sex education that included being taught about condoms, pregnancy and STD's, so did my girlfriend. We still made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I got her pregnant the very night I turned 18.

I don't agree with Palin's stance - but I also don't think she is at all to blame for her daughter's pregnancy.

[JLBats]

I have received sex education that including being taught about condoms, pregnancy and STD's, so did my girlfriend. We still made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I got her pregnant the very night I turned 18.

thread blown wide open

[ShadowBoxing]

I was thinking... that maybe her daughter made that mistake because Palin didn't talk to her daughter about sex, about birth-controls and assume that her daughter is on the same page with her with regards to abstinence. It's one thing to have sex, but another to have sex and get pregnant at such a young age. That not only shows a lack of good judgment but also, maybe, a lack of sex education or knowledge on the subject.
Sarah Palin has come out hard against contraception and doesn't support abortion in cases of rape and incest, so it's pretty clear where she stands on sex education (saying she would not support contraception based sex ed in schools). I would guess her daughters get the brunt of this view. If she did talk to them about sex, the conversation almost certainly did not paint any gray areas, or inform them of any contraception and preventative methods they could use. I won't chide her for getting pregnant, and usually parents try their hardest to prevent that sort of thing, but it certainly highlights and problem with abstinence only education when it's most vocal supporter can't make it work.

[redfirebird2008]

I was thinking... that maybe her daughter made that mistake because Palin didn't talk to her daughter about sex, about birth-controls and assume that her daughter is on the same page with her with regards to abstinence. It's one thing to have sex, but another to have sex and get pregnant at such a young age. That not only shows a lack of good judgment but also, maybe, a lack of sex education or knowledge on the subject.

That's what I'm wondering. Wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. I'm not sure if she is home-schooled, goes to private school, or goes to public school. If it's one of the first two, it's possible that she was not taught about condoms or birth control. If it's the third one, then I would think she learned something in health class although it is possible she has not had health class yet. I had health class my senior year and a lot of the people in that class were seniors. It was one of those classes where we had the option to take it during any of our high school years. The only requirement being that we actually take the class. The sex ed part was hilarious. We had a temporary teacher (woman in her 40's) who came in to teach that part of the class and some of the questions that people would ask had her blushing and the entire class laughing. "When the guy...cums..."...Her response: "You mean ejaculates..." :hehe:

[UA-Archangel]

no, but the conservatives seem to have more bizarre sex scandals...most likely due to their inability to freely express their love.

No. It's just played up more, because they advocate an idealized position.

The same way a supposedly compassionate liberal abandons his half-brother in abject poverty somewhere in Africa.

[ShadowBoxing]

I don't agree with Palin's stance - but I also don't think she is at all to blame for her daughter's pregnancy.It might not be all her fault, but it's certainly not helping her cause either. One of the main differences between contraception base education is it acknowledges you CAN and WILL get pregnant if you have too much sex, so you're better off trying to minimize that risk by using contraception. Abstinence only education seems to be more based around denial of urges, which only works if the individual in question has the willpower to deny themselves until marriage, which for almost everyone is going to be questionable.

[redfirebird2008]

I have received sex education that included being taught about condoms, pregnancy and STD's, so did my girlfriend. We still made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I got her pregnant the very night I turned 18.

I don't agree with Palin's stance - but I also don't think she is at all to blame for her daughter's pregnancy.

Your profile says you're 19. Did she have the baby?

[StorminNorman]

It might not be all her fault, but it's certainly not helping her cause either.

I don't think there is "helping" that cause. Its something that will happen no matter what kids are taught - if I went back and time and told my past self exactly what would happen if I put my wee-wee in her hoo-hoo I really don't think it would of stepped me. :o Horny teens are going to make mistakes.

[StorminNorman]

Your profile says you're 19. Did she have the baby?

Miscarried.

She was going to get an abortion. I personally wanted to keep it, but I knew she didn't believe (and probably rightfully so) that she couldn't afford to have it. I couldn't ask her to make that sacrifice and it was that night that I bought into the idea that men really shouldn't decide abortion rights. If I wasn't going to ask a girl I loved to keep my baby, how could I ever ask another woman?

[Überlibran]

No. It's just played up more, because they advocate an idealized position.

The same way a supposedly compassionate liberal abandons his half-brother in abject poverty somewhere in Africa. Please stop spreading this falsehood. “It seems there are people who want to destroy me and my family,” he said. “They say I live on a dollar a month, but this is all lies by people who don’t want my brother to win.” - George Hussein Obama http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4583353.ece

[redfirebird2008]

Miscarried.

She was going to get an abortion. I personally wanted to keep it, but I knew she didn't believe (and probably rightfully so) that she couldn't afford to have it. I couldn't ask her to make that sacrifice and it was that night that I bought into the idea that men really shouldn't decide abortion rights. If I wasn't going to ask a girl I loved to keep my baby, how could I ever ask another woman?

That is an excellent point, but I still have a very tough time saying that it's alright except in cases of incest or rape (or the woman's life is at stake). But I can understand your perspective. I'm sure my own perspective would change if I had something like that happen.

[DorkyFresh]

No. It's just played up more, because they advocate an idealized position.

The same way a supposedly compassionate liberal abandons his half-brother in abject poverty somewhere in Africa.
the bolded part makes absolutely no sense in context of the topic at hand, but whatever.

btw, i can't be sure, but i believe Obama was never really close to his half-bro or even his father. if that's the case, how exactly did he abandon him?

[Showtime]

Fun Fact today.

According to AAA

Most Expensive Gas
Alaska : $4.49

Cheapest Gas
Delaware : $3.46


Heh. VP Gas Wars!!!!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

I didn't even know Delaware was still a state. I thought we traded it for crude oil. :csad:

[souvlaki]

I sleep for three hours, and I wake up to Sarah Palin belonging to a political party that supported Alaska's succession from the union? Jesus people, slow down. I need to sleep sometime.

[Marx]

I sleep for three hours, and I wake up to Sarah Palin belonging to a political party that supported Alaska's succession from the union? Jesus people, slow down. I need to sleep sometime.

:hehe:

[souvlaki]

Oh God, this is just getting embarrassing now. Did anyone post this while I was sleeping?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYYiw_y2qDI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYYiw_y2qDI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Marx]

Oh God, this is just getting embarrassing now. Did anyone post this while I was sleeping?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYYiw_y2qDI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYYiw_y2qDI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Yes it was. http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

But allow me to repeat what an idiot, and hypocrit I think he (and people like him) are. It makes me sick. Obama's 'lack of experience' isn't good enough but Palin's 'lack of experience' is perfectly acceptable! :whatever:

[souvlaki]

Yes it was. http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

My mistake. I see I have a lot of catching up to do.

At this rate I'm halfway expecting to wake up tomorrow to find out she is a Russian spy. Or did I miss that too while I was sleeping?

[Marx]

My mistake. I see I have a lot of catching up to do.

At this rate I'm halfway expecting to wake up tomorrow to find out she is a Russian spy.

:funny:

[Excel]

Oh God, this is just getting embarrassing now. Did anyone post this while I was sleeping?

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:lmao:

Can you call into that? Btw Campbell Brown is a damn good host imo. I wanna call in and say, in my deepest, angriest voice

"ARE YOU SAYIN THAT; JUST CAUSE ALASKA IS NEAR RUSSIA, SHE HAS FORIENG POLICY EXPIRIENCE?! WHAT?!!? THIS IS A WOMAN WHO APPLIED FOR HER FIRST PASSPORT JUST LAST YEAR, HOW STUPID YOU THINK WE ARE AND HOW MUCH DID JOHN MCCAIN HAVE TO DRINK THE MORNING HE OFFERED THE VP SLOT?!"

[Matt]

Foreign policy experience, as of today, means jack ****. It doesn't matter who we elect president, vice president, or anything. We should just sign over the country to Vladimir Putin right now.

I mean...A ****ING TIGER! WHO DOES THAT!?!

[souvlaki]

:lmao:

Can you call into that? Btw Campbell Brown is a damn good host imo. I wanna call in and say, in my deepest, angriest voice

"ARE YOU SAYIN THAT; JUST CAUSE ALASKA IS NEAR RUSSIA, SHE HAS FORIENG POLICY EXPIRIENCE?! WHAT?!!? THIS IS A WOMAN WHO APPLIED FOR HER FIRST PASSPORT JUST LAST YEAR, HOW STUPID YOU THINK WE ARE AND HOW MUCH DID JOHN MCCAIN HAVE TO DRINK THE MORNING HE OFFERED THE VP SLOT?!"

And this is only CNN. I can't wait until MSNBC sinks their teeth into this VP pick. Chris Matthews is probably foaming at the mouth thinking about how many "gotcha" moments he can catch Republicans in over this pick right now. Actually, the fact that it is a CNN anchor is even better now that I think about it. I hardly ever see this type of stuff on CNN. Just the entertaining factor from this pick alone is gonna make this election good.

[Excel]

Psh. I beat his old Russian ass any day...so would Jag n Shadowbox. :o

[Marx]

And this is only CNN. I can't wait until MSNBC sinks their teeth into this VP pick. Chris Matthews is probably foaming at the mouth thinking about how many "gotcha" moments he can catch Republicans in over this pick right now. Actually, the fact that it is a CNN anchor is even better now that I think about it. I hardly ever see this type of stuff on CNN. Just the entertaining factor from this pick alone is gonna make this election good.

Larry King was hammering Leslie Sanchez on that too. It's getting interesting.

[Excel]

The bottom line si they mauled Obama for months about not being expirienced enough, and now they pick a vp not up to that standard. Obama didnt do this with Biden. It isnt like obama said "a lot of expirience is bad".

And whats "troopergate"? I hear she fired her bro in law, and gave his commanding job to her buddy from high school?

[souvlaki]

See, I've always felt CNN was a little left leaning. However, I felt for the last month or two it's been a little more Hillary bias, always playing up the Obama campaign's problems with them. I think a combination of the convention and Palin's selection has pissed off quite a few CNN anchors and their bias is slightly showing. Not that I should be shocked, but this is going to be a pretty divisive election.

[StrainedEyes]

Oh God, this is just getting embarrassing now. Did anyone post this while I was sleeping?

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Haha wow, I would fire that guy as soon as possible after that. That's very embarrassing.

"What decision has she made?"
"Any decision she made would be much more important then any decision Barack Obama has done"
"Ok, name one decision."
"Are we really going to belittle every decision a she made?"

[StrainedEyes]

The bottom line si they mauled Obama for months about not being expirienced enough, and now they pick a vp not up to that standard. Obama didnt do this with Biden. It isnt like obama said "a lot of expirience is bad".

And whats "troopergate"? I hear she fired her bro in law, and gave his commanding job to her buddy from high school?

She told a higher up to fire her brother in law. The higher up did not do it, so she fired the hire up... allegedly.

[souvlaki]

Haha wow, I would fire that guy as soon as possible after that. That's very embarrassing.

"What decision has she made?"
"Any decision she made would be much more important then anything Barack Obama has done"
"Ok, name one decision."
"Are we really going to belittle every decision a person makes?"

Yeah, considering their almost PUMA level obsession with Hillary Clinton the last couple months, it's weird to see how fast CNN turned on Palin. They seem to be more disgusted than MSNBC about this choice.

[DACrowe]

Oh God, this is just getting embarrassing now. Did anyone post this while I was sleeping?

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Wow, I hadn't seen it so thanks. Brown just whooped his ass. She took him to school. Also, her governorship of 20 months is more experience than Obama's 3 years in the senate?

And he lied at least three times on that, and she called him on one of them. And then he counters, "Well a governor can in a state of emergency." What emergency has there been in Alaska in the last 20 months?

He just got taken to political school. Ouch it was ugly.

[Julio Alejandro]

There's already this many pages about this sexy woman of a running mate?:cwink:

[souvlaki]

There's already this many pages about this sexy woman of a running mate?:cwink:

We might as well rename this thread "The Sarah Palin Lounge". It's verging on becoming a chat thread.

[Julio Alejandro]

I'm shocked!

[ManofmyWord]

I literally left my house around 3 oclock today, this thread was on page 60ish.

Geez, 34 pages later and she looks even worse.

[kainedamo]

I don't think she'd have such a high approval rating as governor if she had misspent the money that she indebted her town to borrowing. Odds are, she spent it as intended.

We would have heard by now if the money had been badly spent.

Why don't you provide some proof?

I backtracked through the pages I've missed and all I see you saying is "well she must have meant to spend that money on rebuilding infrastructure" when there is nothing to suggest that.

She got the town into debt simply to bring in big corporations.

[kainedamo]

If the citizens aren't complaining, than it's a nonstory.

Wal-mart isn't going to go into an area that cannot support it. The town may be small, but if you were to take a census of everybody within 50 miles of that town, it's probably not insubstantial.

This is a common theme in your posts.

"Probably"

"Maybe"

"If it were a bad decision we'd hear more"

Post some proof, dude. Seriously.

[kainedamo]

Report on Monogan
6UojMnCgqVA

This is really damning.

[kainedamo]

Lets see some actual proof and something that indicates what her opinions are.

If this is true, then I would place it in the same area as Obama being in a racist church for 20 years.

So, would you still support Palin?

Wouldn't that mean you're holding Palin to a different standard than Obama?

[kainedamo]

Absolutely. And if this were a democrat - almost everyone at this board who is attacking Palin for her parenting skills would be defending her tooth and nail. The evangelicals are hardly the only ones vulnerable to hypocrisy.

You got it backwards. People are attacking Palin because of a hypocrisy they see of someone preaching asbtinance only. Let me assure you that most of the people here do not care on a personal level about her daughter being pregnant. I've only seen one person comment that it reflects badly on her as a Mother.

[kainedamo]

Please stop spreading this falsehood. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4583353.ece

Great. Hopefully I never have to see people lie about Obama's brother again.

[kainedamo]

James Carville Rips Sarah Palin's Experience. Michele Bachmann says "that's offensive to women".

RALnyUSj_gY

[C.F. Kane]

^ Wouldn't more women be offended by the notion that American women will simply vote for anyone as long as they have a uterus?

[Mikelus]

Wow, this thread has more posts in just a few days than the McCain thread, as always, controversy sells.

[Malice]

So what do you guys NOT like about her?

[Mikelus]

This is getting worse and worse....

A series of disclosures about Governor Sarah Palin, Senator John McCain's choice as running mate, called into question on Monday how thoroughly McCain had examined her background before putting her on the Republican presidential ticket.

On Monday morning, Palin and her husband, Todd, issued a statement saying that their 17-year-old unmarried daughter, Bristol, was five months pregnant and that she intended to marry the father.

Among other less attention-grabbing news of the day: it was learned that Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state's public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990 of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Todd Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge.

Aides to McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Sarah Palin's background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice.

Although the McCain campaign said that McCain had known about Bristol Palin's pregnancy before he asked her mother to join him on the ticket and that he did not consider it disqualifying, top aides were vague on Monday about how and when he had learned of the pregnancy, and from whom.

While there was no sign that her formal nomination this week was in jeopardy, the questions swirling around Palin on the first day of the Republican National Convention, already disrupted by Hurricane Gustav, brought anxiety to Republicans who worried that Democrats would use the selection of Palin to question McCain's judgment and his ability to make crucial decisions.

At the least, Republicans close to the campaign said it was increasingly apparent that Palin had been selected as McCain's running mate with more haste than McCain advisers initially described.

Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before McCain introduced Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, McCain was still holding out the hope that he could name as his running mate a good friend, Senator Joseph Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Governor Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.

But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Ridge or Lieberman by the delegates.

Perhaps more important, several Republicans said, McCain was getting advice that if he did not do something to shake up the race, his campaign would be stuck on a potentially losing trajectory.

With time running out — and as McCain discarded two safer choices, Governor Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Governor Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable — he turned to Palin. He had his first face-to-face interview with her on Thursday and offered her the job moments later.

"They didn't seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before," said a Republican close to the campaign. "This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn't get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge."

McCain's advisers said repeatedly on Monday that Palin was "thoroughly vetted," a process that would have included a review of all financial and legal records as well as a criminal background check. A McCain aide said that the campaign was well aware of the ethics investigation and that it had looked into it.

People familiar with the process said Palin had responded to a standard form with more than 70 questions.

"It was obviously something that anybody Googling Sarah Palin knew was in the news and there was a very thorough vetting done on that and also on the daughter," the aide said.

Mark Salter, McCain's closest adviser, said in an e-mail message that Palin had been interviewed by Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr., a veteran Washington lawyer in charge of the vice-presidential vetting process for McCain, as well as by other lawyers who worked for Culvahouse. Salter did not respond to an e-mail message asking if Palin had told Culvahouse and his lawyers that her daughter was pregnant.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/02/america/02vetting.php

McCain has poor judgement, makes more gaffes; Obama is more charismatic, made a better VP pick and the winner is......





















;)

[X Knight]

maybe this article will shed some more light on the vetting process:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin

And here's the article quoted:


McCain vetter defends Palin review By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 17 minutes ago



Sarah Palin voluntarily told John McCain's campaign about her pregnant teenage daughter and her husband's 2-decade-old DUI arrest during questioning as part of the Republican's vice presidential search, the lawyer who conducted the background review said.

The Alaska governor also greatly detailed the dismissal of the state's public safety commissioner that has touched off a legislative investigation, Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr. told The Associated Press in an interview Monday.

Palin underwent a "full and complete" background examination before McCain chose her as his running mate, Culvahouse said. Asked whether everything that came up as a possible red flag during the review already has been made public, he said: "I think so. Yah, I think so. Correct."

McCain's campaign has been trying to tamp down questions about whether the Arizona senator adequately researched his surprise vice presidential selection or whether he chose the first-term governor without fully looking into her background.

Nicolle Wallace, a senior McCain adviser, told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Tuesday that Palin disclosed her daughter's pregnancy during the vetting process, and that the McCain campaign had been forced to reveal the pregnancy publicly Monday because of "lewd and outrageously false rumors" spread by "Democratic-leaning blogs and a few in the mainstream" media. She did not identify them.

Since McCain publicly disclosed his running mate on Friday, the notion of a shoddy, rushed review has been stoked repeatedly.

First, a campaign-issued timeline said McCain initially met Palin in February, then held one phone conversation with her last week before inviting her to Arizona, where he met with her a second time and offered her the job Thursday.

Then came the campaign's disclosure that Palin's unmarried 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, was pregnant. The father is Levi Johnston, who has been a hockey player at Bristol's high school, The New York Post and The New York Daily News reported in their Tuesday editions.

In addition, the campaign also disclosed that Palin's husband, Todd, then age 22, was arrested in 1986 in Alaska for driving under the influence of alcohol.

Shortly after Palin was named to the ticket, McCain's campaign dispatched a team of a dozen communications operatives and lawyers to Alaska. That fueled speculation that a comprehensive examination of Palin's record and past was incomplete and being done only after she was placed on the ticket.

Steve Schmidt, a senior adviser, said no matter who the nominee was, the campaign was ready to send a "jump team" to the No. 2's home state to work with the nominee's staff, work with the local media and help handle requests from the national media for information, and answer questions about documents that were part of the review.

At several points throughout the process, McCain's team warned Palin that the scrutiny into her private life would be intense and that there was nothing she could do to prepare for it.

Culvahouse disclosed details of his examination in a half-hour interview with the AP.

First, a team of some 25 people working under Culvahouse culled information from public sources for Palin and other prospective candidates without their knowledge. For all, news reports, speeches, financial and tax return disclosures, litigation, investigations, ethical charges, marriages and divorces were reviewed.

For Palin specifically, the team studied online archives of the state's largest newspapers, including the Anchorage Daily News, but didn't request paper archives for Palin's hometown newspaper. "I made the decision that we could not get it done and maintain secrecy," Culvahouse said.

Reports, 40-some pages and single-spaced, on each candidate then were reviewed by McCain, Schmidt, campaign manager Rick Davis and top advisers Mark Salter and Charlie Black.

Among the details McCain's campaign found: Palin had once received a citation for fishing without a license.

Palin, like others on the short list, then was sent a personal data questionnaire with 70 "very intrusive" questions, Culvahouse said. She also was asked to submit a number of years of federal and state tax returns, as well as any controversial articles she had written or interviews she had done. The campaign also checked her credit.

Then, Culvahouse conducted a nearly three-hour-long interview.

He said the first thing she volunteered was that her daughter was pregnant, and she also quickly disclosed her husband's DUI arrest.

Early on, the public search unearthed details of the investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that Palin ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.

Culvahouse said that he asked follow-up questions during the interview, and "spent a lot of time with her lawyer" on the matter.

"We came out of it knowing all that we could know at the time," he said.

As for the financial records review, Culvahouse said: "It was very clean. We had no issues there."

Throughout the process, the campaign said, Davis had multiple conversations with Palin.

[Malice]

Obama is a joke and McCain is...well...not sure...This is going to be one hell of an election

[Zen]

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s

September 01, 2008 6:52 PM

The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.

And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.

"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."

She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.

"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.

She doesn't know what Palin's position was.

"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But when she joined the party, our platform was right under her nose."

Clark says that Palin left the party and became a Republican in 1996, when she first ran for mayor of Wasilla.

The McCain-Palin campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The AIP platform states that the purpose of the party is to "seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution ... To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature ... To support the privatization of government services ...”

Walter Hickel, a former Republican governor, was elected to the governorship in 1990 as an AIP member -- the third-largest party in Alaska -- with a plurality vote of 38.8%. A Seattle Post-Intelligencer story that year said that "Hickel is running with the Alaska Independence Party, a fringe group advocating that the 49th state declare itself a sovereign nation. But he's not a separatist; he's an opportunist: the Independence Party was the only 11th-hour ticket to the general election."

Hickel returned to the Republican Party in 1994; he endorsed Palin in her gubernatorial run in 2006. Subsequent AIP gubernatorial candidates did not fare as well as did Hickel, garnering less than 2 percent of the vote.

Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town –- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -– she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won’t go into that. She also had about an 80 percent approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."

Lynette Clark says that Palin is "a fine individual. She's forthright and she puts Alaska first."

She is not a fan of McCain.

"I can't understand why in God's name she has aligned herself with a candidate who opposes the development of our republic and Alaska's resource wealth," Clark says.

- jpt

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html



i think this will be utilized against her probably. what do you guys think?

[Malice]

They will use anything...including the parking ticket she got when she was 21...

Its stupid some of the stuff both parties use...

[Zen]

I think McCain has now squandered his advantage over Obama in terms of who is a more riskier candidate.

polls lately have Obama almost into a double digit lead.

I dont get it... i dont understand how they thought this was the answer to getting sworn in. :huh:

[Malice]

I think McCain has now squandered his advantage over Obama in terms of who is a more riskier candidate.

polls lately have Obama almost into a double digit lead.

I dont get it... i dont understand how they thought this was the answer to getting sworn in. :huh:

She has a unique appeal, I admit it, but I am wondering myself if proper a proper investigation was done.

The daughter being pregnant is I think NEGATIVE across the board...
So I see Obama really taking advantage of this...even with his "dont use family" in politics speech.

[Zen]

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/0901PostConv1_ooolll.gif

[Zen]

She has a unique appeal, I admit it, but I am wondering myself if proper a proper investigation was done.

The daughter being pregnant is I think NEGATIVE across the board...
So I see Obama really taking advantage of this...even with his "dont use family" in politics speech.

well the "dont use the family" thing is him playing shrewd politics. its going to happen anyway sadly by constituents and other outliers.

im reading a Nytimes article right now that has me BOGGLED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?hp

[Malice]

My personal thoughts on this one.

Now, I find her intriguing to be honest.
I think she has mild experience, I think that is a slight negative here...
Honestly, I don't care one bit about her family issues..
Kids are kids...

With her believes...I have some arguments with her, but I yet dont know them all so far....(this weekend was too busy with the Hurricane to really look into it)

I think though, she will be McCain's downfall, but DAMN this will be an interesting campaign.

[Heretic]

Man...it really looks like the only thing she brings to the ticket is "look, its a girl!". I dont like how inexperienced she is, because Id be a hypocrite to say its okay after months of me bashing Obama for lack of experience, Her family issues will be a distraction. The only possible good outcome for McCain would be if women became disgusted with the media covering her family. A large part of Clintons appeal was that women identified with her because she lived a screwed up life like the rest of us do. I would not feel comfortable banking on that mass voting block to come out again...

[ShadowBoxing]

She told a higher up to fire her brother in law. The higher up did not do it, so she fired the hire up... allegedly.That will sink her so bad.

[kane9321]

:lmao:

Can you call into that? Btw Campbell Brown is a damn good host imo. I wanna call in and say, in my deepest, angriest voice

"ARE YOU SAYIN THAT; JUST CAUSE ALASKA IS NEAR RUSSIA, SHE HAS FORIENG POLICY EXPIRIENCE?! WHAT?!!? THIS IS A WOMAN WHO APPLIED FOR HER FIRST PASSPORT JUST LAST YEAR, HOW STUPID YOU THINK WE ARE AND HOW MUCH DID JOHN MCCAIN HAVE TO DRINK THE MORNING HE OFFERED THE VP SLOT?!"

Oh campbell rocked that interview..normally she doesnt ask tough questions,but christ she was awesome...I had to email her right after :woot:

[ShadowBoxing]

Some more juicy stuff...


Labor Day brought us an ugly media feeding frenzy when it surfaced that Sarah Palin's teenage daughter is pregnant. But the real scandal for John McCain's V.P.-to-be is the flurry of stories that as a politician in Alaska, Palin had a voracious appetite for the very congressional earmarks and pork barrel spending that John McCain has made a signature issue of trying to stamp out.


As mayor of Wasilla, a suburb of Anchorage, Palin hired one of Alaska's most connected lobbying firms to secure almost $27 million in federal appropriations for her constituents, according to the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008090103340&s_pos=). Wasilla benefited mightily from Palin's decision: federal earmarks for $900,000 in municipal sewer repairs, $1.9 million for a local transportation hub, and $15 million for a rail link, among other pet projects. For a town of just 6,700 people, this amounted to thousands of dollars per resident in federal largess. And the lobbying firm, Robertson, Monagle, & Eastaugh, wasn't just any band of wannabe legislators. The firm is closely linked to Alaska's two most notorious pork barrel Republicans, Senator Ted Stevens and Representative Don Young (Stevens was indicted (http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2008/July/08-crm-668.html) this summer for accepting and failing to report hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts from VECO, a now-defunct oil services firm).


It gets worse. The McCain camp has made much of Palin's supposedly principled decision as governor to decline federal money to build the "Bridge to Nowhere," a national symbol of pork barrel spending run amok. In her speech accepting the position as McCain's running mate, Palin recalled: "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere....'If our state wanted a bridge,' I said, 'we'd build it ourselves.'"



Stirring stuff. But as USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm?csp=34) reports, Palin was actually for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. Campaigning for governor in 2006, Palin trumpeted her support for the $233 million bridge to reach an island of just 50 inhabitants. And displaying an unnerving understanding of how the dirty appropriations game is played, she even urged quick action to build the bridge while Alaska's congressional delegation (i.e., Stevens and Young) was well-positioned to secure the necessary federal tax dollars. Only when the bridge became a public relations debacle did Palin flip positions and declare that Alaska didn't need it after all.


We've been told by the McCain camp to overlook Palin's thin résumé because she's an insurgent pork-busting reformer in the mold of John McCain. We've been misled. Palin was looking for federal handouts just like every other self-interested politician that John McCain excoriates. Take that card away, and what does she really offer?



That's the real scandal about Sarah Palin.

[kainedamo]

Thanks ShadowBoxing. I saw something about that on the news just a little earlier.

[kane9321]

lol..shes the gift that keeps on giving:)

[Heretic]

Wait...the alleged mother of the first kid is now pregnant? I missed that part...

From what Im gathering on a very quick read is that the teen got pregnant either before or immediately after Trig (which is not a human beings name) was born.

[lazur]

Some more juicy stuff...

Labor Day brought us an ugly media feeding frenzy when it surfaced that Sarah Palin's teenage daughter is pregnant. But the real scandal for John McCain's V.P.-to-be is the flurry of stories that as a politician in Alaska, Palin had a voracious appetite for the very congressional earmarks and pork barrel spending that John McCain has made a signature issue of trying to stamp out.

So what. Her daughter is pregnant. It's not 'juicy' nor is it a 'scandal.'

As mayor of Wasilla, a suburb of Anchorage, Palin hired one of Alaska's most connected lobbying firms to secure almost $27 million in federal appropriations for her constituents, according to the Washington Post. Wasilla benefited mightily from Palin's decision: federal earmarks for $900,000 in municipal sewer repairs, $1.9 million for a local transportation hub, and $15 million for a rail link, among other pet projects. For a town of just 6,700 people, this amounted to thousands of dollars per resident in federal largess. And the lobbying firm, Robertson, Monagle, & Eastaugh, wasn't just any band of wannabe legislators. The firm is closely linked to Alaska's two most notorious pork barrel Republicans, Senator Ted Stevens and Representative Don Young (Stevens was indicted this summer for accepting and failing to report hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts from VECO, a now-defunct oil services firm).

You're seriously going to talk about lobbyists and 'scandal' without also mentioning the fact that no matter how many dealings with lobbyists Palin had, it comes no where NEAR Biden...

It gets worse. The McCain camp has made much of Palin's supposedly principled decision as governor to decline federal money to build the "Bridge to Nowhere," a national symbol of pork barrel spending run amok. In her speech accepting the position as McCain's running mate, Palin recalled: "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere....'If our state wanted a bridge,' I said, 'we'd build it ourselves.'"

Stirring stuff. But as USA Today reports, Palin was actually for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. Campaigning for governor in 2006, Palin trumpeted her support for the $233 million bridge to reach an island of just 50 inhabitants. And displaying an unnerving understanding of how the dirty appropriations game is played, she even urged quick action to build the bridge while Alaska's congressional delegation (i.e., Stevens and Young) was well-positioned to secure the necessary federal tax dollars. Only when the bridge became a public relations debacle did Palin flip positions and declare that Alaska didn't need it after all.

Political mumbo jumbo. Perhaps she was for it, then realized the cost AND that her voters were opposed to it (speaking of which, it's funny how they phrase 'voter opposition' as a 'public relations debacle'...) and ultimately decided against it.

This hardly qualifies as a 'flip flop' - as it's not as though she flip flopped on 'promises made' or that she flip flopped on her ideals that endeared her to her voter base in the first place like some other politicians have ::cough:: Obama ::cough::.

More straw grasping 4tehwinz...

[kainedamo]

Hey ShadowBoxing do you have a link for the article you posted? Thanks.

[DorkyFresh]

in regards to the Alaskan Independence Party rumor.

7Re0vmbtHK8

[Malice]

Hell I thought Texas should leave the Union a few times...

[Franklin Richards]

I say we leave the Union then conquer Mexico, Cuba, and the Bahamas.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Zen]

If you leave the union, take the cowboys with ya ;)

:up:

[IrishFightin]

I think shes a closet canuck, listen to her speak.

[kainedamo]

in regards to the Alaskan Independence Party rumor.

7Re0vmbtHK8

WOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH!!

March 2008. March 2008!!!

I'd be amazed, absolutely amazed if nothing comes of this in the media.

[Hobodeluxe]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4783/failinhq1.jpg

[Zen]

i think you're going to see ads attacking mccains "country first" slogan...

they are going to question his judement on putting someone inexperienced a heartbeat away from the presidency.

and Palin being tied to succesionists will be posited against "country first"



honestly i think Obama doesnt need to attack the VP. i think he should keep it high class and let the controversies swirl around on their own, i think he can afford to do this.

[jaguarr]

James Carville Rips Sarah Palin's Experience. Michele Bachmann says "that's offensive to women".

RALnyUSj_gY

Good grief. Could Michelle Bachmann be any more vapid and any more of a shill? "I'm pretty and I smile while I talk so you should believe me even though I'm not saying anything with substance!" Between her and Pawlenty being in office, I am now officially afraid of Minnesota. Why would they elect people like that? :huh:

Anyway, Carville and the other woman on that show ate her alive. LOL!

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Hey ShadowBoxing do you have a link for the article you posted? Thanks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-silvers/the-real-sarah-palin-scan_b_123113.html

[Malice]

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp

[SuBe]

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp
And the Executive XP is running for VP, not 1st Place.

[ShadowBoxing]

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp
Palin has been a Governor for twenty months, she makes Obama look like George C. Marshall by comparison.

[kane9321]

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp

good god:cmad:

[Heretic]

And the Executive XP is running for VP, not 1st Place.


oh come on...McCain is twenty thousand years old. Not to be a jerk, but it is quite possible that he would not live to the end of his term.

[IrishFightin]

Shes lost to a black person before, lets hope she loses again.

[jaguarr]

in regards to the Alaskan Independence Party rumor.

7Re0vmbtHK8

:lmao: Palin is toast.

jag

[Malice]

Palin has been a Governor for twenty months, she makes Obama look like George C. Marshall by comparison.

Maybe I am slow on this one.....
how is that reference applicable?

I am asking as I know Marshall...just cant see the connection

[ShadowBoxing]

Maybe I am slow on this one.....
how is that reference applicable?

I am asking as I know Marshall...just cant see the connectionHe's just someone with a lot of credentials, especially in foreign policy, the area where Palin is most lacking.

[ShadowBoxing]

:lmao: Palin is toast.

jagThis and Troopergate are going to get very ugly, very fast.

[kainedamo]

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp

That is seriously just such a thin argument.

Community Organiser
President of the Harvard Law Review
Constitutional Law lecturer/professor: 1992-2004
Illinois State Senator 97-04 (A senator for roughly 770, 000 people)
United States Senator 2004-present
Presidential campaign from 2006/07 to present

Sarah Palin:

Sports reporter (can represent McCain at 2012 Olympics)
Wasilla Councillor 92-96
Wasilla Mayor 96-02 (a small town mayor, and even then she wasn't without scandal)
Governor of Alaska 2006-present (Alaska's next to Russia so...foreign policy experience)

[Zen]

I think Obama can afford to not go on the offensive here... these things will take on a life of their own

[Zen]

Did McCain vet her at all? Whose idea was this!?

[jaguarr]

This and Troopergate are going to get very ugly, very fast.

Yep. These two things are enough to sink any campaign. Add in all the other crazy things with this VP candidate and it's just the string quartet playing on the deck of the ship while it sinks.

jag

[Malice]

That is seriously just such a thin argument.

Community Organiser
President of the Harvard Law Review
Constitutional Law lecturer/professor: 1992-2004
Illinois State Senator 97-04 (A senator for roughly 770, 000 people)
United States Senator 2004-present
Presidential campaign from 2006/07 to present

Sarah Palin:

Sports reporter (can represent McCain at 2012 Olympics)
Wasilla Councillor 92-96
Wasilla Mayor 96-02 (a small town mayor, and even then she wasn't without scandal)
Governor of Alaska 2006-present (Alaska's next to Russia so...foreign policy experience)

Dont put words in my mouth.
I simply said they both have a significant lack of experience.

Being a Senator is neglegable.
That being said...they both lack experience...
But Palin is for VP, not pres.. (that is not an endorsement, just fact)

[Zen]

Maybe I am slow on this one.....
how is that reference applicable?

I am asking as I know Marshall...just cant see the connection

marshall is a bit exagerative ill agree, but She has no foriegn policy credentials.

[ShadowBoxing]

I think Obama can afford to not go on the offensive here... these things will take on a life of their own
He really can. This is why you vet someone, so Youtube and CNN doesn't sink you're campaign by surprising everyone with fun facts about you.

[kainedamo]

So what do you guys think of Sarah Palin as early as March 2008 saying on camera that she wants Alaskan independence?

[Malice]

marshall is a bit exagerative ill agree, but She has no foriegn policy credentials.

Absolutely...that is one of my big concerns...
And I have a few
:)

[jaguarr]

I think Obama can afford to not go on the offensive here... these things will take on a life of their own

Yeah, it's swirling the drain already. Damn....not even five days. That must be some sort of record. Obama has been smart to just stay away from it. I half wonder if the Dem's vetted her more than the Republicans did, because they've acted from the start like she was a non-issue (and were probably laughing their ass off that her name was even being seriously considered to begin with). I bet they had a file on her long before John ever did. Anyone with Google could.

she also has a drunk driving charge...


Did McCain vet her at all? Whose idea was this!?

She does? How recently was her DWI? Link?

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

Yep. These two things are enough to sink any campaign. Add in all the other crazy things with this VP candidate and it's just the string quartet playing on the deck of the ship while it sinks.

jag
My favorite are the ties to Pat Buchanan, and her pension for shooting animals from helicopters.

[Malice]

So what do you guys think of Sarah Palin as early as March 2008 saying on camera that she wants Alaskan independence?

I say, we all talk crap...
Now, she said it on camera...of course I would need to see the clip first.

[jaguarr]

Dont put words in my mouth.
I simply said they both have a significant lack of experience.

Being a Senator is neglegable.
That being said...they both lack experience...
But Palin is for VP, not pres.. (that is not an endorsement, just fact)

I'll tell you this, though...the way Obama has run his campaign has been impeccable. That alone speaks volumes about him as a leader.

jag

[kainedamo]

Dont put words in my mouth.
I simply said they both have a significant lack of experience.

Being a Senator is neglegable.
That being said...they both lack experience...
But Palin is for VP, not pres.. (that is not an endorsement, just fact)

Honestly, I see Obama having the same non-experience as Palin, so that is a non-issue to me...Palin at least has had executive xp

I'm sorry, but their experience is incomparable. Obama has much more.

"But Palin is for VP".

As far as I'm concerned, the VP job needs to be treated as though its the Presidential job.

Biden is ready to take over on day one. Palin is not.

[kainedamo]

I say, we all talk crap...
Now, she said it on camera...of course I would need to see the clip first.

7Re0vmbtHK8

[Malice]

I'll tell you this, though...the way Obama has run his campaign has been impeccable. That alone speaks volumes about him as a leader.

jag

I dont deny that at all.
I just want people to look at historical xp there...
Honestly, they are close to equal in my eyes...

Just because someone thinks the Law Review is more important then being a mayor, does not mean she does not have the experience.

Again, I have a concern with her xp...frankly, I just want people to make decisions on the facts...not opinions...

Obama got into the Senate and started campaigning for President the moment he got there basically..

Senators dont generally have Chief Executive xp, they are good in meetings and committees...

So I see them as even in my eyes...

[Zen]

turns out the drunk driving thing is her husbands, scratch that. i misspoke. misstyped, whatever.

[Heretic]

In that video, she welcomes a convention to town...without endorsing or slamming them...come on...youre inventing words she didnt say.

Also...where is the record of her drunk driving arrest??? That was her husband over 2 decades ago, right?? I love how democrats are flat out accusing her of things knowing full well that she didnt do it. leaving out the facts tends to be the best weapon of convincing people.

[jaguarr]

I dont deny that at all.
I just want people to look at historical xp there...
Honestly, they are close to equal in my eyes...

Just because someone thinks the Law Review is more important then being a mayor, does not mean she does not have the experience.

Again, I have a concern with her xp...frankly, I just want people to make decisions on the facts...not opinions...

Obama got into the Senate and started campaigning for President the moment he got there basically..

Senators dont generally have Chief Executive xp, they are good in meetings and committees...

So I see them as even in my eyes...

Obama gives me the impression he's more than capable of doing the job of POTUS and that he's got the right perspective, the right judgment and the leadership skills for the job. Palin....I don't get that vibe from her even for the VP job.

jag

[jaguarr]

turns out the drunk driving thing is her husbands, scratch that. i misspoke. misstyped, whatever.

Thanks for the clarification. Her husband's DWI was 24 years ago. Hardly even worth bringing up, to me anyway.

jag

[Zen]

In that video, she welcomes a convention to town...without endorsing or slamming them...come on...youre inventing words she didnt say.

Also...where is the record of her drunk driving arrest??? That was her husband over 2 decades ago, right?? I love how democrats are flat out accusing her of things knowing full well that she didnt do it. leaving out the facts tends to be the best weapon of convincing people.


pump the breaks kid, i just did myself... one post right above yours, check it out

[Zen]

I hear shes a good debater, has anyone witnessed this? any idea on whether or not she will be able to handle biden?

[IrishFightin]

Well, atleast shes a good mother. I mean her daughters pregnant, that happens.


Atleast shes not drinking!


















http://i38.tinypic.com/27wypno.jpg







Damn.

[ShadowBoxing]

Senators dont generally have Chief Executive xp, they are good in meetings and committees...

You overrate that experience by a wide margin. We'll set aside the fact that her state is one third the size of Chicago, Illinois. Her "executive experience" amounts to little more than halting a federal project in Alaska and firing her half-brother's boss. This is hardly a list of great state accomplishments. Where is Alaska in education? Why is her home town in crippling debt? Why is she in the middle of a corruption scandal? These are serious holes in the theory that she has "executive experience" we can bank on. Also, New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine has already come out to say that being a Governor is not all that special. Being a Senator is a much harder position, because you're actively engaged in foreign policy, state politics and legislation. Those things tie directly into the executive. Running an insignificant state is nothing to write home about.

[jaguarr]

I hear shes a good debater, has anyone witnessed this? any idea on whether or not she will be able to handle biden?

I'm absolutely sure that Biden will not underestimate her. However, her debate experience is pretty much in Alaska, not on a national stage. Big difference.

jag

[Heretic]

pump the breaks kid, i just did myself... one post right above yours, check it out

Did you hear that John McCain was once involved with the capture and torture of American troops??? This is a scandal that could ruin his candidacy!

[Gilpesh]

I'm absolutely sure that Biden will not underestimate her. However, her debate experience is pretty much in Alaska, not on a national stage. Big difference.

jag

I also saw an article from this thread where it said that she pretty much blew at debates.

[ShadowBoxing]

Did you hear that John McCain was once involved with the capture and torture of American troops??? This is a scandal that could ruin his candidacy!
The difference between John McCain, George W. Bush and John Kerry, who all had major blemishes on their records is that it was known by the political world and media long before they stepped up to run and the scandals had run their course. This is all new for her, and now she's being publically vetted. It's one thing to have a series of scandals over a political career, it's another to have ALL of them in one weekend.

[jaguarr]

The difference between John McCain, George W. Bush and John Kerry, who all had major blemishes on their records is that it was known by the political world and media long before they stepped up to run and the scandals had run their course. This is all new for her, and now she's being publically vetted. It's one thing to have a series of scandals over a political career, it's another to have ALL of them in one weekend.

Who says ALL of it has come out, yet? Things are just getting started. There could easily be more.

jag

[Heretic]

Well, atleast shes a good mother. I mean her daughters pregnant, that happens.


Atleast shes not drinking!




















http://i38.tinypic.com/27wypno.jpg







Damn.

This isnt fair! In the rules for Rock, Paper, Scissors if both players choose scissors, then both must drink...it's in the rules, man! Dont judge!

[ShadowBoxing]

Who says ALL of it has come out, yet? Things are just getting started. There could easily be more.

jag
Very true. In fact the media has basically focused on the pregger daughter. So far very little has come out about the AIP, the connections to Ted Stevens, the debt she left Wasilla in, the gaff about supporting the "Bridge to Nowhere", and of course Troopergate which could remove her as Governor of Alaska.

[DACrowe]

James Carville Rips Sarah Palin's Experience. Michele Bachmann says "that's offensive to women".

RALnyUSj_gY

Wow, thanks for the clip.

It's pretty freaking ridiculous that when Carville comes down like a hammer on Palin's inexperience -- albeit I was hoping someone would point out that she was for the bridge-to-nowhere, which could sink McCain's painting her as a reformer, but the TV media is always too slow for something like that -- that all a Republican could do, a Congresswoman no less, is say "That is sexist."

Huh? Don't criticize our candidate because she's a woman is the best you can come up with? And then when Carville points out he FEVORISHLY supported Hillary Clinton for a year and was an advisor to that campaign, she responds "that is why women can be excited with a new woman in the election!" Really? The fact that Palin is the ideologically OPPOSITE of Clinton shouldn't matter to her supporters? She's got a fun pouch and that is all she needs?

Really?

[kainedamo]

I was flicking through the news channels to see if there would be anything about this clip showing Sarah Palin hosting an Alaskan Independence party earlier in the year but they are way too focused on the pregnancy thing.

The pregnancy thing could end up saving Palin, because its destracting the media from the dozen other things about her that are much more damaging.

[Frodo]

You got it backwards. People are attacking Palin because of a hypocrisy they see of someone preaching asbtinance only. Let me assure you that most of the people here do not care on a personal level about her daughter being pregnant. I've only seen one person comment that it reflects badly on her as a Mother.

This is the part were the critics lose me. How do we know what was said between Palin and her daughter? For all we Palin could have preached asbtinance to her day and night and she still slept around.

Let's be honest, Kids are gonna have sex without protection ,asbtinance eduction be damned . The same goes for Safe sex ed. Ultimatley parents can't force their kids to have protected sex or to abstain. They can instill values , give advice , but it's the kids descion. It doesn't matter if you're a bible thumper or not.

On a side note , for Liberals be talking about moral family values is laughable and shows their own hypocrisy IMO. It was only few weeks ago I heard many liberals defending John Edwards against critics judging his moral failings .

I agree with Obama , that the kids should be off limits . He knows when you start down that slope then his own children become fair game. I really don't care about a politicans personal life which is why I defended Clinton during impeachment. Both parties live in glass houses and shouldn't throw stones .

[JLBats]

As for that Carville video...

WTF?:huh:

Is that woman totally mentally retarded?
Like honestly, did she huff paint?

I just love how he brings up her inexperience, and she irrationally claimed sexism. Then he batted that accusation away by pointing out how he supported a woman for President, and with a blank, dumb stare on her face she jumped from that to the most random, dumb**** conclusion about how this was a candidate women could get excited about.

Durrrrrr?:confused::huh::confused::huh:

You call this woman a moron and she just stares at you moronilly.

[jaguarr]

As for that Carville video...

WTF?:huh:

Is that woman totally mentally retarded?
Like honestly, did she huff paint?

I just love how he brings up her inexperience, and she irrationally claimed sexism. Then he batted that accusation away by pointing out how he supported a woman for President, and with a blank, dumb stare on her face she jumped from that to the most random, dumb**** conclusion about how this was a candidate women could get excited about.

Durrrrrr?:confused::huh::confused::huh:

You call this woman a moron and she just stares at you moronilly.

She's a Congresswoman from Minnesota. Frightened, now?

jag

[Excel]

The pregnancy thing could end up saving Palin, because its destracting the media from the dozen other things about her that are much more damaging.

Theyl all come out in time.

[Gilpesh]

Let's be honest, Kids are gonna have sex without protection ,asbtinance eduction be damned . The same goes for Safe sex ed. Ultimatley parents can't force their kids to have protected sex or to abstain. They can instill values , give advice , but it's the kids descion.

You and I may be able to say that... but Palin believes that abstinence education keeps kids from having sex. And she believes so hard in that, that she is also against contraceptives... even for married couples.

It doesn't matter if you're a bible thumper or not.

Bible has nothing to do with this... it's her daughter being a textbook case of how medieval thinking that everyone can avoid sex until marriage and that even if you do have sex... no condoms, no pills, no nothing. Leads to more teen pregnancy.

[Malice]

Now that I see more and more coming out, this may just SINK McCain....
Granted...the opposite side will obviously find every little bad thing they can...typical of any Presidential office...each side has attack dogs..

I originally picked it your be McCain versus Obama with Obama winning...

I am still on par from January with my pick.

[Matt]

Does anyone else think, with all of Obama's lack of experience and "scandalous" connections, and inability to close this election...if Romney were the nominee he would be up at least five points right now, I think, if he ran a somewhat competent campaign.

[SuperT]

Is no else concerned that Palin wanted to fire a librarian when she was Mayor of Wasilla because the librarian wouldn't remove books that she wanted to be removed?!?! o_0

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents. During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign. Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative". During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%.

This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents. The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn't even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing. While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once. These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state. In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs. She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day. Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State's top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's Police Chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness. Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to. As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance--but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork". She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her. As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State's lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as threatened species. McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President. There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she. However, there's a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.

WTF?!

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate

[Gilpesh]

Does anyone else think, with all of Obama's lack of experience and "scandalous" connections, and inability to close this election...if Romney were the nominee he would be up at least five points right now, I think, if he ran a somewhat competent campaign.

Right. If McCain had picked a VP and not a VA- well you get it.

But if McCain had done the right thing for the country (cough cough) and not himself... no one would be questioning his abilities at all... well some would.

[X Knight]

if McCain had picked Romney, then the dems and media would have a field day over Romney's "flipflops" during the campaign......not to mention they would hightlight how Romney and McCain attacked each other during the campaign....

So, they would use their own words against them.....kind of like how McCain's camp was using Hillary's and Biden's words against Obama.

Also, Romney, being extremely wealthy, would have also played into the dems' charge of the republicans being "elitist" and out of touch with middle America.....

IOW......even if Romney was picked........they'd find a way to attack him and dish out dirt on him, too.........so no candidate is "perfect."

[Matt]

No, I'm saying if Romney were the actual Presidential nominee, he'd be up five points so long as his campaign were ran somewhat well.

[souvlaki]

Does anyone else think, with all of Obama's lack of experience and "scandalous" connections, and inability to close this election...if Romney were the nominee he would be up at least five points right now, I think, if he ran a somewhat competent campaign.

Honestly, I'd have to agree.

[Heretic]

I said it before and I'll say it again...he should have gone with Bobby Jindal. Hes youthful and can appeal to young voters, AND having just dodged a Katrina like catastrophe in his home state, he could be herladed as some hero who brought about changes to the ravaged area from 3 years ago.

[StrainedEyes]

if McCain had picked Romney, then the dems and media would have a field day over Romney's "flipflops" during the campaign......not to mention they would hightlight how Romney and McCain attacked each other during the campaign....

So, they would use their own words against them.....kind of like how McCain's camp was using Hillary's and Biden's words against Obama.

Also, Romney, being extremely wealthy, would have also played into the dems' charge of the republicans being "elitist" and out of touch with middle America.....

IOW......even if Romney was picked........they'd find a way to attack him and dish out dirt on him, too.........so no candidate is "perfect."

Yes, but at least Romney would have more experience to run on. So then McCain could still say Obama isn't ready.

[jaguarr]

No, I'm saying if Romney were the actual Presidential nominee, he'd be up five points so long as his campaign were ran somewhat well.

I don't. Romney would alienate a good chunk of that evangelical base that is so critical to the RNC, like it or not.

jag

[SuBe]

I said it before and I'll say it again...he should have gone with Bobby Jindal. Hes youthful and can appeal to young voters, AND having just dodged a Katrina like catastrophe in his home state, he could be herladed as some hero who brought about changes to the ravaged area from 3 years ago.
I would agree that he would be a good VP. But, I still believe in Palin.

[souvlaki]

Is no else concerned that Palin wanted to fire a librarian when she was Mayor of Wasilla because the librarian wouldn't remove books that she wanted to be removed?!?! o_0



WTF?!

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate

If this is at all true, then this one pisses me off the most. I mean, come on. Do we really need a President straight out of Fahrenheit 451?

[Gilpesh]

Is Sarah Palin really middle-class?

Seriously....

[X Knight]

Is Sarah Palin really middle-class?

Seriously....

Is Obama really middle-class?

Nay, ARE ANY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES really middle-class??

Seriously......

[Matt]

Honestly, I'd have to agree.

Last November, this election was the Democrats' to lose. Then Obama actually made it competitive and turned a very easy win into a very hard fight through all his connections, gaffes, attitudes, etc. Then...McCain screwed the pooch and Obama is enjoying the rewards of such.

[Gilpesh]

Is Obama really middle-class?

Nay, ARE ANY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES really middle-class??

Seriously......

That's it? You just go off on the other candidates?

I ask because that's the new angle coming from the McCain campaign... that Palin is a middle-class working mother.

Jeez. Settle down. :whatever:

[X Knight]

I don't. Romney would alienate a good chunk of that evangelical base that is so critical to the RNC, like it or not.

jag

That could be true, too......considering that Romney is a Mormon.

Not saying one's religion should be held against another person......but......

[Matt]

I don't. Romney would alienate a good chunk of that evangelical base that is so critical to the RNC, like it or not.

jag

Jag, you know the difference between Democrats and Republicans? Republicans can get over it and are smarter with their votes. Evangelicals would vote for a mormon before they abstained or went third party and allowed a black man with a Muslim sounding name to take the presidency.

[X Knight]

That's it? You just go off on the other candidates?

I ask because that's the new angle coming from the McCain campaign... that Palin is a middle-class working mother.

Jeez. Settle down. :whatever:

Well.....I was being a little sarcastic.......jeeeezzz....

I'm just saying......Obama talks like he can relate to the middle class....but he and his family are fairly well off themselves now.....so not exactly "middle class."

But, comparatively speaking.....Palin DOES strike me as more "middle-class".....moreso than the other 3 candidates......at least that's the perception.......

[Gilpesh]

Well.....I was being a little sarcastic.......jeeeezzz....

I'm just saying......Obama talks like he can relate to the middle class....but he and his family are fairly well off themselves now.....so not exactly "middle class."

I'm talking about Palin... who they are trying to use as a middle-class working mother. Not Obama who talks like it. :whatever:

[souvlaki]

Last November, this election was the Democrats' to lose. Then Obama actually made it competitive and turned a very easy win into a very hard fight through all his connections, gaffes, attitudes, etc. Then...McCain screwed the pooch and Obama is enjoying the rewards of such.

Pretty much... Obama is only now starting to run a halfway competent campaign during the General Election, and even then that is mostly because they have McCain as a target.

[X Knight]

I'm talking about Palin... who they are trying to use as a middle-class working mother. Not Obama who talks like it. :whatever:

comparatively speaking.....Palin DOES strike me as more "middle-class".....moreso than the other 3 candidates......at least that's the perception.......

[kainedamo]

Well.....I was being a little sarcastic.......jeeeezzz....

I'm just saying......Obama talks like he can relate to the middle class....but he and his family are fairly well off themselves now.....so not exactly "middle class."

But, comparatively speaking.....Palin DOES strike me as more "middle-class".....moreso than the other 3 candidates......at least that's the perception.......

Obama raised himself up from practically nothing. You do know that, right?

[kane9321]

This is all just wonderful news:)

[Gilpesh]

comparatively speaking.....Palin DOES strike me as more "middle-class".....moreso than the other 3 candidates......at least that's the perception.......

I think she has three houses to McCain's seven. And I thought I heard her husband has Big Oil ties...

[X Knight]

Obama raised himself up from practically nothing. You do know that, right?

umm....yeah......good for him.........

looks like Palin raised herself up from nothing too........good for her.......

but....right now.....Obama's living standard is not exactly......"middle class."

that's all I'm saying........no candidates are really "middle class".....cuz you have to be pretty darn wealthy to run for President......

[jaguarr]

Jag, you know the difference between Democrats and Republicans? Republicans can get over it and are smarter with their votes. Evangelicals would vote for a mormon before they abstained or went third party and allowed a black man with a Muslim sounding name to take the presidency.

Yeah, but I also know some evangelicals and there is just no way in HELL they would ever vote for a Mormon. Ever. They've said it outright to me in conversation. They'd just as soon stay home and not vote. I'm not saying all evangelicals have that mindset, but a good chunk of them really do.

jag

[jaguarr]

I think she has three houses to McCain's seven. And I thought I heard her husband has Big Oil ties...

Yeah, her husband works for BP. She has plenty of Big Oil ties herself, even if she's gone against them at times to get a better deal for Alaska.

You know what bothers me about her husband is that he is WAY too involved in her Governorship. She was apparently copying him on pretty much all the emails she sent in her time as Governor (including the ones involving Troopergate that she is trying to have suppressed.) He constantly pops up in stories regarding issues or scandals with her, even getting interviewed and asked for his input much of the time. WTF? :huh:

jag

[Gilpesh]

According to this woman I saw on Fox News... it's practically impossible to have a problem with Palin... if you're not a chauvinist.

[souvlaki]

According to this woman I saw on Fox News... it's practically impossible to have a problem with Palin... if you're not a chauvinist.

So who will post a Fox News clip of them making sexist jokes about Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi first?

[kainedamo]

According to this woman I saw on Fox News... it's practically impossible to have a problem with Palin... if you're not a chauvinist.

I mean...

Am I the only one that can see how hypocritical the republicans are being?

Just a few weeks ago, Obama said one little, itty bitty comment about the right using his race. All we heard from the media and the right after was "he's using the race card".

Since the day Palin got the nomination, all we've been hearing from republicans, McCain, and Palin herself is how historic it is that she's a woman running for VP and how she's going to break the glass ceiling.

We've already seen examples of republicans using as a defense "that's sexist" when people question the choice for Palin, even when the basis of that criticism has nothing to do with gender. Like questioning her experience.

Can people just not call out the republicans on their BS and say "stop using the gender card"?

[ManofmyWord]

Nothing really damning...but funny.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXtgm7O8U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXtgm7O8U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ShadowBoxing]

Can people just not call out the republicans on their BS and say "stop using the gender card"?
I think that is ultimately going to hurt them. As it is they are now officially on the defensive and have put the ball in Obama's court. He has to screw up now.

[Gilpesh]

AKkydrUnBZE

Palin laughs as an opponent for governor is called "a cancer and a b***h".

Fun sidenote: that opponent is a caner survivor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/palin-laughs-as-opponent_n_122776.html

[Superman]

I'm gone for a day and come back and you guys are still talking about the kid.:csad:

I really don't care if her kid is having a baby. IMO It's not going to effect the elections enough to matter, In fact it might get her a few sympathy votes if people keep going on about it.

Yeah yeah, I get that it has to do with Palin's judgement as a mother and her stand on abstinence first and all that but for me it's really a side issue to the more important issues of the day.

I'd rather talk about Palin's record as mayor and governor. I think those issues are more important and more worrisome than whether or not her kid has a kid.

But that's just me. You all have fun, I'll be back later.:yay:

[souvlaki]

I think that is ultimately going to hurt them. As it is they are now officially on the defensive and have put the ball in Obama's court. He has to screw up now.

I tend to agree with this. People are already talking about it without Obama or anyone associated with his campaign outright saying it. Hell, half the news anchors on CNN implied it very heavily last night alone.

[The Overlord]

According to this woman I saw on Fox News... it's practically impossible to have a problem with Palin... if you're not a chauvinist.

Of course fox news isn't going to have a problem with her, she an ultra conservative, of course she is going to get along with people at Fox, but people who don't believe the world was created in six days might.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Good god, this thread has BLOWN UP in the last 24 hours (45 pages to 90-something????)!! Any way, what DOES matter is how Sarah will be percieved handling this situation. We already know the following:


*She just gave birth to a baby with downs and went RIGHT BACK to work in less than 72 hours :dry:

*She apparently hasn't been very available to provide the guidance necessary to her teenaged daughter

*She will be even LESS available if she becomes the VP--not only as a mother, but as a GRANDMOTHER to a teenaged girl for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:

If she can't even keep her household under control in a state where there are more reindeer than human beings, how can she possibly govern a country of BILLIONS?????

Don't let the evangelicals and conservatives mislead you--this IS a big deal and it will call into question not only her ethics, but also her judgement as a mother.

[Gilpesh]

LS... that's not the right way to question her abilities.

The real way is to ask... when her family is going through such personal things like this... why is she throwing herself and her family into the lime-light just for her career?

[Malice]

I am amazed at some of these comments...

[X Knight]

hmmmm.....didn't John Edwards continue to run for President while his wife's CANCER RETURNED??

Surely, his cold-heartedness and lack of judgment/concern for his family should have immediately disqualified him from trying to seek his party's nomination......:o

[Lightning Strykez!]

LS... that's not the right way to question her abilities.

The real way is to ask... when her family is going through such personal things like this... why is she throwing herself and her family into the lime-light just for her career?

^

That's another good question.

I dunno...she just strikes me as very ambitious and scary considering the little we know about her. At one point I felt the same way about Obama, but unfortunately I don't have 2 years to let pass so this woman can grow on me.

[jaguarr]

So, I keep asking in here every so often this question:

Palin vs. Putin. Go.

Today, I was given an answer (courtesy a post from Bob $tencil in Community):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080831/wl_nm/russia_putin_tiger_dc_1

Russia's Putin saves TV crew from Siberian tiger



By Guy Faulconbridge Sun Aug 31, 3:01 PM ET

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was feted by Russian media on Sunday for saving a television crew from an attack by a Siberian tiger in the wilds of the Far East.
ADVERTISEMENT

Putin, taking a break from lambasting the West over Georgia, apparently saved the crew while on a trip to a national park to see how researchers monitor the tigers in the wild.

Just as Putin was arriving with a group of wildlife specialists to see a trapped Amur tiger, it escaped and ran towards a nearby camera crew, the country's main television station said. Putin quickly shot the beast and sedated it with a tranquilizer gun.

"Vladimir Putin not only managed to see the giant predator up close but also saved our television crew too," a presenter on Rossiya television said at the start of the main evening news.

The 55-year-old former KGB spy, who cultivated a macho image during his eight years as the Kremlin chief, was shown striding through the taiga in camouflage and desert boots before grappling with the feline foe.

He helped measure the Amur tiger's incisors before placing a satellite transmitter around the neck of the beast, which can weigh up to 1,000 lb and measure around ten feet from nose to the tip of the tail.

The Amur tiger, the world's biggest wild cat, has recently pounced back from the brink of extinction to hit its highest population level for at least 100 years, the WWF said last year.

Putin thanked Western researchers for being involved in programs to save the Amur tigers.

"First of all, we must thank our colleagues, Americans, European colleagues for being involved with this during a difficult time for Russia when no-one was paying any attention to this," Putin said.

Putin last year made it into glossy magazines across the world by donning combat trousers and baring his muscular torso for photographers while on a fishing trip in the Yenisei river.

Sensitive to a growing environmental movement in Russia, Putin as president redrew a planned oil pipeline route to avoid Lake Baikal and scrapped plans for an Olympic village near Sochi that could have damaged local flora and fauna.

jag

[X Knight]

ahhh.......so now we are admiring the actions of Putin, a borderline dictator.......while denigrating the accomplishments of Palin????

[kainedamo]

So it doesn't look like Sarah Palin has done McCain any favors in the polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

National Gallup Tracking Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 51, McCain 45 Obama +6
National USA Today/Gallup* Obama 50, McCain 43 Obama +7
National Hotline/FD Obama 48, McCain 39 Obama +9
National CBS News Obama 48, McCain 40 Obama +8

[kainedamo]

ahhh.......so now we are admiring the actions of Putin, a borderline dictator.......while denigrating the accomplishments of Palin????

Dude... Palin saved people from a tiger. A tiger!

[Lightning Strykez!]

hmmmm.....didn't John Edwards continue to run for President while his wife's CANCER RETURNED??

Surely, his cold-heartedness and lack of judgment/concern for his family should have immediately disqualified him from trying to seek his party's nomination......:o

A spouse dealing with an illness and an inexperienced minor going through adolescent pregnancy (in the public spotlight at that) are two totally different things in my point of view. One needs support in a different way than the other. The latter needs straight up guidance.

One of the appealing things about Hillary running for President is that she had finished raising her family. Voters knew she would have few family-related distractions related to Chelsea as she handled government. In contrast, Sarah Palin is in the midst of raising hers--and one of them apparently is frought with problems.

[souvlaki]

So it doesn't look like Sarah Palin has done McCain any favors in the polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

National Gallup Tracking Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 51, McCain 45 Obama +6
National USA Today/Gallup* Obama 50, McCain 43 Obama +7
National Hotline/FD Obama 48, McCain 39 Obama +9
National CBS News Obama 48, McCain 40 Obama +8

I cant get over those numbers. I have a sneaking suspicion that with most the media attention focused on the hurricane this week and the various Palin scandals, no matter what kind of show they put on at the RNC, McCain wont get a huge bump from this convention.

[Gilpesh]

hmmmm.....didn't John Edwards continue to run for President while his wife's CANCER RETURNED??

Surely, his cold-heartedness and lack of judgment/concern for his family should have immediately disqualified him from trying to seek his party's nomination......:o

So you're pro-choice?

I mean if you want to compare cancer to a child.



But... I don't think everyone started to call John Edwards' wife a **** or skank or an idiot for getting cancer.

[Lightning Strykez!]

So it doesn't look like Sarah Palin has done McCain any favors in the polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

National Gallup Tracking Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 51, McCain 45 Obama +6
National USA Today/Gallup* Obama 50, McCain 43 Obama +7
National Hotline/FD Obama 48, McCain 39 Obama +9
National CBS News Obama 48, McCain 40 Obama +8

I kinda expected this. McCain only made this radical choice to take America's minds off of Obama's historic nomination. He didn't even give it time to resonate with voters before dropping this bombshell.

Sarah Palin is resonating too, but in a different way for the McCain campaign.

[jaguarr]

ahhh.......so now we are admiring the actions of Putin, a borderline dictator.......while denigrating the accomplishments of Palin????

Palin vs. Putin. Go. Who wins? Be it a negotiation, a fist fight or a gun fight? Who wins?

jag

[souvlaki]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.



I'm seriously speechless. This election...

[Lightning Strykez!]

Palin vs. Putin. Go. Who wins? Be it a negotiation, a fist fight or a gun fight? Who wins?

jag

Putin.

Which is sad, when you think about it. :dry:

[Gilpesh]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.



I'm seriously speechless. This election...

I truly hope this is false.

[StorminNorman]

Good god, this thread has BLOWN UP in the last 24 hours (45 pages to 90-something????)!! Any way, what DOES matter is how Sarah will be percieved handling this situation. We already know the following:


*She just gave birth to a baby with downs and went RIGHT BACK to work in less than 72 hours :dry:

*She apparently hasn't been very available to provide the guidance necessary to her teenaged daughter

*She will be even LESS available if she becomes the VP--not only as a mother, but as a GRANDMOTHER to a teenaged girl for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:

If she can't even keep her household under control in a state where there are more reindeer than human beings, how can she possibly govern a country of BILLIONS?????

Don't let the evangelicals and conservatives mislead you--this IS a big deal and it will call into question not only her ethics, but also her judgement as a mother.

:whatever:

[jaguarr]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.



I'm seriously speechless. This election...

They're already starting to leak rumor that they may have to revisit McCain's choice?

:lmao:

jag

[Lightning Strykez!]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.


I'm seriously speechless. This election...

Mark my words: If the idea that McCain found Palin on Google gains traction with the media, this could get very ugly, very quickly.

I didn't know that John McCain used Google though. Or computers at all, for that matter. :whatever:

[Matt]

Well McCain better do it quickly if he is going to. Once she accepts the nomination, can he revisit the choice?

[Malice]

I cant get over those numbers. I have a sneaking suspicion that with most the media attention focused on the hurricane this week and the various Palin scandals, no matter what kind of show they put on at the RNC, McCain wont get a huge bump from this convention.

I agree....the RNC is going to be overshadowed by Gustav

[StorminNorman]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.



I'm seriously speechless. This election...

Maybe this is the same Republican strategist that said Romney was McCain's pick. Or that said McCain made his pick a week ago. Or said that McCain's pick was a "safe pick".

Please - you are going off of rumor and speculation and buying into it because it fits what you WANT to see.

[Gilpesh]

:whatever:

For once... me and Norman agree in this thread... :wow:


Although I luckily distanced myself by asking about Palin's judgment to decide to bring her family into the limelight when they are dealing with big personal issues.

[Malice]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.

I'm seriously speechless. This election...

Somehow I have a hard time thinking that of ANY political party to be honest....

[Matt]

If McCain gives the speech of his lifetime, he can still get a decent bump. Big if...

Also, Palin will be crucial. Her acceptance speech will have to be gold. She can't shy away from these scandals. She ought to address them head on.

[Superman]

Palin vs. Putin. Go. Who wins? Be it a negotiation, a fist fight or a gun fight? Who wins?

jagNegotiation's? Putin. Fist fight? Putin. Gun fight? That's a toss up, It could go either way. Just depends on who draws first.:hehe:

[X Knight]

A spouse dealing with an illness and an inexperienced minor going through adolescent pregnancy (in the public spotlight at that) are two totally different things in my point of view. One needs support in a different way than the other. The latter needs straight up guidance.

One of the appealing things about Hillary running for President is that she had finished raising her family. Voters knew she would have few family-related distractions related to Chelsea as she handled government. In contrast, Sarah Palin is in the midst of raising hers--and one of them apparently is frought with problems.

I was being sarcastic folks.......

I mean....post after post after post here is dedicated to constantly tearing down Palin.....making fun of her......constantly calling into question her judgment......her ability to lead.....even her measure as a mother.....

heaven forbid.....someone makes a snide comment questioning the "judgment" or decision making abilities of the "other side.".........:whatever:

but no......that situation is "different".........

[Lightning Strykez!]

:whatever:

Hey! :cmad:

It's not my fault that 80% of Sarah Palin's Alaskan constituents are wild animals. :whatever:

[souvlaki]

Well, if the only thing used to vet Palin was a Google search then at least we know McCain did the vetting himself.

[Malice]

Negotiation's? Putin. Fist fight? Putin. Gun fight? That's a toss up, It could go either way. Just depends on who draws first.:hehe:

Depends if they are dropped in a jungle with only a knife...
:)

[jaguarr]

Mark my words: If the idea that McCain found Palin on Google gains traction with the media, this could get very ugly, very quickly.

I didn't know that John McCain used Google though. Or computers at all, for that matter. :whatever:

Well, we know that at least SOMEONE is McCain's campaign is a Wikipedia fan. :hehe:

Seriously, these guys must be the worst Googlers in the entire world. Folks on this forum have vetted Palin using Google far more than they ever did.

jag

[souvlaki]

Maybe this is the same Republican strategist that said Romney was McCain's pick. Or that said McCain made his pick a week ago. Or said that McCain's pick was a "safe pick".

Please - you are going off of rumor and speculation and buying into it because it fits what you WANT to see.

Dude, it's the Los Angeles Times. They aren't perfect, but it's not like it's the Daily Koz either.

[jaguarr]

Negotiation's? Putin. Fist fight? Putin. Gun fight? That's a toss up, It could go either way. Just depends on who draws first.:hehe:

Putin shoots tigers at point blank range. Palin shoots wolves from a helicopter. Unless she can pull some sniper action on him while his back is turned and he's distracted, Putin fills her with holes in a gun fight.

jag

[StorminNorman]

Dude, it's the Los Angeles Times. They aren't perfect, but it's not like it's the Daily Koz either.

And? So?

The New York Times ran a story about how McCain was having an affair with some lady - that didn't mean it was at all correct.

[X Knight]

Somehow I have a hard time thinking that of ANY political party to be honest....

I already posted a link to an article that gives a slightly different perspective on the vetting process.

Here it is again:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin
And here's the article quoted:

McCain vetter defends Palin review By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 17 minutes ago


Sarah Palin voluntarily told John McCain's campaign about her pregnant teenage daughter and her husband's 2-decade-old DUI arrest during questioning as part of the Republican's vice presidential search, the lawyer who conducted the background review said.
The Alaska governor also greatly detailed the dismissal of the state's public safety commissioner that has touched off a legislative investigation, Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr. told The Associated Press in an interview Monday.
Palin underwent a "full and complete" background examination before McCain chose her as his running mate, Culvahouse said. Asked whether everything that came up as a possible red flag during the review already has been made public, he said: "I think so. Yah, I think so. Correct."
McCain's campaign has been trying to tamp down questions about whether the Arizona senator adequately researched his surprise vice presidential selection or whether he chose the first-term governor without fully looking into her background.
Nicolle Wallace, a senior McCain adviser, told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Tuesday that Palin disclosed her daughter's pregnancy during the vetting process, and that the McCain campaign had been forced to reveal the pregnancy publicly Monday because of "lewd and outrageously false rumors" spread by "Democratic-leaning blogs and a few in the mainstream" media. She did not identify them.
Since McCain publicly disclosed his running mate on Friday, the notion of a shoddy, rushed review has been stoked repeatedly.
First, a campaign-issued timeline said McCain initially met Palin in February, then held one phone conversation with her last week before inviting her to Arizona, where he met with her a second time and offered her the job Thursday.
Then came the campaign's disclosure that Palin's unmarried 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, was pregnant. The father is Levi Johnston, who has been a hockey player at Bristol's high school, The New York Post and The New York Daily News reported in their Tuesday editions.
In addition, the campaign also disclosed that Palin's husband, Todd, then age 22, was arrested in 1986 in Alaska for driving under the influence of alcohol.
Shortly after Palin was named to the ticket, McCain's campaign dispatched a team of a dozen communications operatives and lawyers to Alaska. That fueled speculation that a comprehensive examination of Palin's record and past was incomplete and being done only after she was placed on the ticket.
Steve Schmidt, a senior adviser, said no matter who the nominee was, the campaign was ready to send a "jump team" to the No. 2's home state to work with the nominee's staff, work with the local media and help handle requests from the national media for information, and answer questions about documents that were part of the review.
At several points throughout the process, McCain's team warned Palin that the scrutiny into her private life would be intense and that there was nothing she could do to prepare for it.
Culvahouse disclosed details of his examination in a half-hour interview with the AP.
First, a team of some 25 people working under Culvahouse culled information from public sources for Palin and other prospective candidates without their knowledge. For all, news reports, speeches, financial and tax return disclosures, litigation, investigations, ethical charges, marriages and divorces were reviewed.
For Palin specifically, the team studied online archives of the state's largest newspapers, including the Anchorage Daily News, but didn't request paper archives for Palin's hometown newspaper. "I made the decision that we could not get it done and maintain secrecy," Culvahouse said.
Reports, 40-some pages and single-spaced, on each candidate then were reviewed by McCain, Schmidt, campaign manager Rick Davis and top advisers Mark Salter and Charlie Black.
Among the details McCain's campaign found: Palin had once received a citation for fishing without a license.
Palin, like others on the short list, then was sent a personal data questionnaire with 70 "very intrusive" questions, Culvahouse said. She also was asked to submit a number of years of federal and state tax returns, as well as any controversial articles she had written or interviews she had done. The campaign also checked her credit.
Then, Culvahouse conducted a nearly three-hour-long interview.
He said the first thing she volunteered was that her daughter was pregnant, and she also quickly disclosed her husband's DUI arrest.
Early on, the public search unearthed details of the investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that Palin ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.
Culvahouse said that he asked follow-up questions during the interview, and "spent a lot of time with her lawyer" on the matter.
"We came out of it knowing all that we could know at the time," he said.
As for the financial records review, Culvahouse said: "It was very clean. We had no issues there."
Throughout the process, the campaign said, Davis had multiple conversations with Palin.

[Lightning Strykez!]

heaven forbid.....someone makes a snide comment questioning the "judgment" or decision making abilities of the "other side.".........:whatever:

but no......that situation is "different".........

No it's not. And we've been through all that already. Have we not journeyed through Jeremiahgate, Bittergate, Flag-pingate, Big Earsgate, Proud-Gate, Islam-gate and every other gate imaginable on the "other side"?

Yes indeed. When you put it all in perspective, Pregno-gate is nothing compared to what Obama has had to deal with during this campaign season. He already weathered his storms so don't go crying bloody war now...we are just getting started. :cool:

[kane9321]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.

I'm seriously speechless. This election...

google....ftw

[StorminNorman]

No it's not. And we've been through all that already. Have we not journeyed through Jeremiahgate, Bittergate, Flag-pingate, Big Earsgate, Proud-Gate, Islam-gate and every other gate imaginable on the "other side"?

Yes. Yes we have.

So Pregno-gate is nothing compared to what Obama's team has had to deal with during this campaign season. He weathered his storms...let's see how Sarah fairs.

But please don't call bloody war now...we are just getting started. :cool:

If you really want to be on the same level as the people that attacked Obama for the flag pin, his big ears and call him a Muslim - be my guest.

[Superman]

Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,3826591.story

One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate's closest supporters as "keeping their fingers crossed" in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain's short list of potential running mates, the Republican said.






I'm seriously speechless. This election...Google!?!? Are you freaking kidding me? :whatever:

[kainedamo]

Well, we know that at least SOMEONE is McCain's campaign is a Wikipedia fan. :hehe:

Seriously, these guys must be the worst Googlers in the entire world. Folks on this forum have vetted Palin using Google far more than they ever did.

jag

Hahahahah! Oh man, I'm laughing my ass off.

[Lightning Strykez!]

If you really want to be on the same level as the people that attacked Obama for the flag pin, his big ears and call him a Muslim - be my guest.


You are missing my point, and probably deliberately so.

The relevance of my post is summed up here: I find it highly hypocritical that Republicans and conservatives here are getting sorely bent out of shape over Palin being questioned about decisions she's made, judgement, experience, etc. Especially when some of the exact SAME posters dealt one blow after another for months on similar Obama-related issues--some of which were even more petty.

If the roles were reversed and Sasha Obama was pregnant, some of you would be having a fricking field day on this board. There's a double standard that the Repub party is pushing, so don't even try it. :rolleyes:

[kainedamo]

Hey Norman! Lovin' those poll numbers? Yep! Looooooooovin' the poll numbers. Lovin' it.

[danoyse]

If McCain gives the speech of his lifetime, he can still get a decent bump. Big if...

Also, Palin will be crucial. Her acceptance speech will have to be gold. She can't shy away from these scandals. She ought to address them head on.

And I think Palin may draw some decent numbers for her speech--the controversy (I'm starting to lose track of all of them) has garnered enough attention that I think it's going to make people a lot more curious to see what she has to say when she takes the stage.

It will be our first chance to see if she's really the "firecracker" we keep hearing about, or if she buckles on a national stage.

[ShadowBoxing]

Jon Stewart past his judgement
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
As did Colbert
http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/index.jhtml

[kainedamo]

Hey Norman! Lovin' those poll numbers? Yep! Looooooooovin' the poll numbers. Lovin' it.

That may seem kind of assholish but I only do it because every single time Norman posted poll numbers showing McCain and Obama tying or McCain getting the lead, Norman does so in a supremly arrogant way.