The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread)

[BlackestNight]

Is it just me or am I the only one that thinks all of GOP prayers backfired.:funny: Some of the People in the GOP preyed for Obama’s DNC Convention speech to get rained out and the GOP Convention ended up with a Hurricane that bloted out an entire days there news coverage.:hehe: They Preyed for Hillary to cause a stir at the DNC Convention and they got all this Palin drama. :applaudI’m telling ya God's angry at the GOP :lmao:
:grin:

[kainedamo]

The republicans...

And I say this with respect to everyone here...

The republicans in a way deserve this. Obama's been picked apart time and time again for a lot, lot less than the things uncovered about Palin. They've constantly tried to find the next new scandal. They've been sitting there (Fox and the republicans) smugly seeing how they can play up the whole PUMA thing or hyping up controversy that isn't there.

[Julio Alejandro]

Is it just me or am I the only one that thinks all of GOP prayers backfired.:funny: Some of the People in the GOP preyed for Obama’s DNC Convention speech to get rained out and the GOP Convention ended up with a Hurricane that bloted out an entire days there news coverage.:hehe: They Preyed for Hillary to cause a stir at the DNC Convention and they got all this Palin drama. :applaudI’m telling ya God's angry at the GOP :lmao:
:grin:

Yeah. That dude from Focus on the Family ****ed the Republicans.

[ManofmyWord]

Ohhh Yay...Bush Senior gets a tribute video that actually supported John Mccain in the end. surprise

[Julio Alejandro]

LMAO! I was thinking the same thing.

[jaguarr]

Uht-oh!!!!!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/sarah-palin-a-n.html

Sarah Palin a no-show at antiabortion event, sparking some ire

So far, at least, John McCain's camp can't be accused of overexposing Sarah Palin.

Two days after McCain shocked the political world by tapping her as his running mate, she was nowhere to be found on the Sunday talk-show circuit. On Monday, she was kept under wraps as word surfaced of the pregnancy of her 17-year-old unwed daughter.

Longtime conservative activist Phyliss Schlafly is not happy John McCain's campaign cancelled a scheduled appearance by Sarah Palin before an anti-abortion group Today, Palin's scheduled appearance in St. Paul, Minn., as guest of honor at an afternoon gathering by the Republican National Coalition for Life was canceled. And that didn't sit well with a leading social conservative.

Phyllis Schlafly, who in the mid-1970s almost single-handedly derailed what had been the expected ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, told ABC News that a McCain aide notified her late Monday that Palin would not be attending the event.

"I think this is clearly somebody in the McCain campaign who doesn't understand where the votes are coming from," Schlafly said. "They only told me this at 10 o'clock last night, and it was a call from somebody down the line in the McCain campaign."

She added: "The pro-lifers who paid $95 to come to this event because of Sarah Palin are going to be very unhappy."

Palin's appearance was set up before she was picked for the GOP's national ticket, McCain aides stressed. And her spokeswoman, Maria Comella, told ABC that Palin needed to pass on the antiabortion event to work on her speech to the Republican National Convention.



jag

[ManofmyWord]

Juilo Wow. You and I finally agree on something.

hell, the people there look as bored as I do here. lol

[JackMercy]

The media seems to me being overly critical of her choice to run.

I find that unacceptable, there is a father there as well.

...who has seemingly, allegedly been complicit in most of the things she's allegedly done...(I mean, copying him on official inter-governmental emails??)

The point here isn't about her mothering "skills" and the minutiae of her "executive experience" or whether she can or can't "do both" -- it's about her judgment, and more deeply about McCain's judgment, who's clearly, in his first major decision reflecting his presidential "potential," made a mad, undeniably rash, unmitigated disaster of a decision for his running mate.

I can't even keep up any more with all the gloriously factual damning reports about this woman's political, and yes, personal history...(whether anyone believes it should be news or not, it was always going to be...)

[jaguarr]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aaPr60Ta7B9s&refer=home

McCain More Likely to Drop Palin, Bookmakers Say (Update1)

By Mark Deen

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- The smart money thinks there's a better chance today than yesterday that John McCain will dump Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate.

Before the Republican senator's presidential campaign disclosed the pregnancy of Palin's 17-year-old daughter, bookmakers in Britain and Ireland were offering 20-1 odds or higher on a bet that she would be forced off the ticket, meaning a 1 pound ($1.78) bet would pay 20 pounds. Now that same bet will pay no more than 8 pounds.

``While it is rare that a VP candidate gets dropped, it's not completely impossible,'' said Ken Robertson, political betting analyst at Paddy Power Plc, a Dublin-based gambling company. ``Lots of our punters are betting `Shocking' Sarah's days are numbered,'' he added, using a nickname he came up with for the first-term Alaska governor.

The odds, based on wagers made online with Paddy Power and William Hill Plc and in their betting shops, also suggest that McCain is less likely to win the White House because of his vice-presidential running-mate choice, announced Aug. 29. Both gambling houses, along with rival Ladbrokes Plc, place Democrat Barack Obama, 47, as the favorite to triumph in the contest.

``Ever since he appointed her, people have stopped betting on McCain,'' said David Williams of Ladbrokes in London. ``He went down like a sack of potatoes as far as the punters are concerned.''

Odds for Palin

Today, William Hill cut the odds that Palin, 44, would be sacked to 8-1 from 20-1. Paddy Power now puts the odds of Palin leaving the ticket at 14-1, compared to 28-1 before yesterday's disclosure about Bristol Palin, the daughter. The Paddy Power betting house is also offering 33-1 odds that she will go by the end of this week. Ladbrokes is offering 10-1 odds that Palin will quit the race.

Intrade, a Dublin-based peer-to-peer betting Web site, opened a contract on Palin to be withdrawn as the Republican vice presidential nominee. The latest price was 12 cents, up 9 cents today. Each contract at that price will pay 88 cents per contract if Palin leaves the ticket.

Political betting on financial markets outperforms polling as an elections predictor, according to a University of North Carolina study and figures from the Iowa Electronic Markets. Only twice in the century through 2004 -- the 1916 election and the 2000 contest between Bush and Democrat Al Gore -- did the betting markets get it wrong on the popular vote.

Eagleton's Demise

The last time a vice presidential candidate was dropped from the ticket was in 1972, when George McGovern's pick for the job, Tom Eagleton, left the Democratic campaign after disclosures he had undergone treatment for depression. McGovern went on to lose the election to Republican Richard Nixon.

``It would be disastrous for his campaign were McCain to sack Palin, but it is not impossible that she could stand down should party chiefs feel that she is too controversial a choice who might end up costing McCain votes,'' said William Hill spokesman Graham Sharpe.

The betting houses also say punters are shifting toward an eventual Obama victory in November. Paddy Power said Obama is now favored 4-9 compared with 1-2 before the Palin appointment. William Hill said Obama's odds shifted last week to 4-9, where they now remain, from 4-11 on Aug. 21 and 2-5 before that.

Ladbrokes also puts Obama as the 4-9 favorite.

Victory Odds

Odds on victory for McCain, who is 72, are 13-8, according to both Paddy Power and William Hill. Ladbrokes gives McCain a slightly better chance of winning, offering 6 pounds for every four bet on that outcome.

McCain advisers Stephen Schmidt and Mark Salter told reporters in St. Paul, Minnesota, yesterday that the campaign learned of Bristol's pregnancy when the mother was vetted.

Obama, campaigning in Monroe, Michigan, said yesterday Palin's children should be ``off limits'' and cited his own mother, who gave birth to Obama when she was 18. Obama named Senator Joe Biden as his running mate last month.

Polls show Obama ahead of McCain since the Democratic convention in Denver wrapped up last week. Obama leads McCain by a margin of 50 percent to 43 percent in a USA Today/Gallup survey conducted Aug. 30-31. The Illinois senator is ahead by 6- points in a poll by American Research Group.

Republicans gathered for the second day today for their own convention in St. Paul. Conventions historically boost poll ratings.

jag

[Julio Alejandro]

Juilo Wow. You and I finally agree on something.

hell, the people there look as bored as I do here. lol
I'm still trying to figure out why I'm still watching this ****.

[Gilpesh]

I can't even keep up any more with all the gloriously factual damning reports about this woman's political, and yes, personal history...(whether anyone believes it should be news or not, it was always going to be...)

The way she ran things in Alaska... it seemed like she was glad to mix personal and political.

[ManofmyWord]

Haha. Me too. Bush Sr wasnt even watching him. lol.

[Julio Alejandro]

Yay! Ronald Reagan is gonna rise from the grave and speak!

[ManofmyWord]

The Reagan Video isn't bad though. I wish we still had canidates like him.

[Julio Alejandro]

George Sr. for that matter.

[ManofmyWord]

True^.

[Julio Alejandro]

People forget what a brain HW was.

[Julio Alejandro]

I gotta admit Fred Thompson is laying it on thick!

[ManofmyWord]

Yeah well when you have a Dumbass son labeled as one of the worst presidents ever tends to cast a shadow. lol.

[ManofmyWord]

He is, But I also don't get how childhood photos help him? lol

[JackMercy]

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/09/08/080908ta_talk_gourevitch

Has this been posted here yet?

Check out her affection for Obama...

[Julio Alejandro]

Not for nothing, but have you ever noticed how the wives of Republican politicians always look happier than that of Democrats?

[ManofmyWord]

Well I think Cindy has had enough Botox she doesnt really have a choice, man. lol.

[ShadowBoxing]

I gotta admit Fred Thompson is laying it on thick!
He's trying to turn the nomination into a pity party, the unfortunate truth though is this didn't work against Bush43, and the Democrats have access to all the ammo Bush used against him.

[UA-Archangel]

Not for nothing, but have you ever noticed how the wives of Republican politicians always look happier than that of Democrats?

That's because democrat wives are married to other women....:oldrazz:

[Julio Alejandro]

Huh?

[kainedamo]

http://womenagainstpalin.com/

[Julio Alejandro]

Well I think Cindy has had enough Botox she doesnt really have a choice, man. lol.
Botox where?

[Marx]

http://womenagainstpalin.com/

I expect more and more of that in the coming weeks.

[JackMercy]

Botox where?

Everywhere.

:D

[jaguarr]

Not for nothing, but have you ever noticed how the wives of Republican politicians always look happier than that of Democrats?

Happiness. Brought to you by Xanax! :up:

jag

[Marx]

Happiness. Brought to you by Xanax! :up:

jag

:hehe:

[ManofmyWord]

They asked if Lieberman thought Palin was experienced enough to step in as President and he said...

"Well John's in great shape, don't worry about it".

Hmmmmm......

[Franklin Richards]

Where did Sarah Palin go to school?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[ShadowBoxing]

Happiness. Brought to you by Xanax! :up:

jag
Most of the Republicans there seem to be taking the happy time drug called DENIAL. Great for times when your record is so bad you have nothing to run on.

[UA-Archangel]

Where did Sarah Palin go to school?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Looking for the time when she cheated on a grade 6 social test, so that can be used against her as well?

[Julio Alejandro]

Yeah, and congress is doing a great job.:whatever:

[Gilpesh]

Looking for the time when she cheated on a grade 6 social test, so that can be used against her as well?

Jeeez. Where were you when people were trying to find that on Obama?

:whatever:

[UA-Archangel]

Jeeez. Where were you when people were trying to find that on Obama?

:whatever:

Watching and waiting.

[Julio Alejandro]

This is actually a serious question because I'm ignorant on the subject; has Obama ever passed any significant legislation?

[UA-Archangel]

This is actually a serious question because I'm ignorant on the subject; has Obama ever passed any significant legislation?

You're not allowed to ask questions that might cast dispersions on Obama.

[Julio Alejandro]

Why not?

[UA-Archangel]

Why not?

It makes Democrats upset.

[danoyse]

You're not allowed to ask questions that might cast dispersions on Obama.

Yes, you may ask any question you like regarding Barack Obama. But if you do, please post them on the Obama thread.

[redfirebird2008]

This is actually a serious question because I'm ignorant on the subject; has Obama ever passed any significant legislation?

Anti-nuclear proliferation bill and stronger ethics bill are the two main ones that he's passed. Pretty thin record.

[Gilpesh]

This is actually a serious question because I'm ignorant on the subject; has Obama ever passed any significant legislation?

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070111-lugar-obama_non/

There's that one.

S. 2125
To promote relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of
the Congo. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s2125is.txt.pdf

And that one.

[Raiden]

They asked if Lieberman thought Palin was experienced enough to step in as President and he said...

"Well John's in great shape, don't worry about it".

Hmmmmm......

That's an endorsement right there. :hehe:

[Julio Alejandro]

It makes Democrats upset.
That must mean no.

[Raiden]

Most of the Republicans there seem to be taking the happy time drug called DENIAL. Great for times when your record is so bad you have nothing to run on.

...and with a sitting president so popular that he's speaking via satellite from the White House.

[Gilpesh]

You're not allowed to ask questions that might cast dispersions on Obama.

Oh... or you could just google Obama legislation and find some.


Or you could just make snarky remarks to suggest that there isn't any to find.

[UA-Archangel]

Oh... or you could just google Obama legislation and find some.


Or you could just make snarky remarks to suggest that there isn't any to find.

Not even the Obama is running on Obama's record.

[danoyse]

Oh... or you could just google Obama legislation and find some.


Or you could just make snarky remarks to suggest that there isn't any to find.

Let's keep the snarky remarks off the forum, everyone.

Again--any questions/discussion about Obama need to be posted in the Obama thread. Thanks for your cooperation. :up:

[Gilpesh]

Let's keep the snarky remarks off the forum, everyone.

:whatever:

Sure... it's all my fault.

[UA-Archangel]

:whatever:

Sure... it's all my fault.

It's all mine.

The Hype was a place of peace and goodwill until I came along.:csad:

I'm sorry.

[Marx]

Let's keep the snarky remarks off the forum, everyone.

Again--any questions/discussion about Obama need to be posted in the Obama thread. Thanks for your cooperation. :up:

I rather enjoy the word snarky. :oldrazz:

[Julio Alejandro]

On another note, I'd hit Sarah Palin...and I don't mean with my hands.:cwink:

[Hole Shot]

I expect more and more of that in the coming weeks.

You expect random stuff to pop up on the Internet in opposition to political candidates? Wow. Do you have time to check your crystal ball for tomorrow's California Super Lotto numbers?

[danoyse]

I rather enjoy the word snarky. :oldrazz:

I love the word snarky. :up:

(I just don't want anyone throwing it at each other)

[Marx]

You expect random stuff to pop up on the Internet in opposition to political candidates? Wow. Do you have time to check your crystal ball for tomorrow's California Super Lotto numbers?

I expect more women's groups to come out against Palin. That's what I said, and what I meant. Your sarcasm isn't needed.

[The Battousai]

Anyone hear this yet? :hehe:

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php

[Hole Shot]

I expect more women's groups to come out against Palin. That's what I said, and what I meant. Your sarcasm isn't needed.

Apparently, my sarcasm is needed more than ever if you take yourself this seriously.

But at least you could pick-up on sarcasm without me posting smilies, so you earned a scout badge from me today for that.


Anyone hear this yet?



http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php


:hehe:

[Superman]

She is a Governor....and a Highly successful one....leave the motherhood aspect out of it.
I tell you, I think that will so piss off so many people it might backfire.

I have personally talked to 5 friends that do NOT think the same politically as me and they are absolutely pissed....4 women and 1 man. I think that sort of attack is going to backfire...
Just my 2 cents.What makes her a "Highly Successful Governor"? What has she done in the year and a half that she has been Governor of Alaska that makes her a "Highly Successful Governor" in your eyes?

Can you list the things she's done please? And please don't come back with "Well Obama has less experience....blah blah blah". We ain't talking about Obama here, We are talking about Palin and HER experience. I'm not saying she doesn't have the experience, She may have it, I just wish somebody, Anybody, Would say what that experience is because so far all i've heard from McCain suporters is how Obama has less. They never answer the question of what exactly is the experience that she has so much of. :(



I will agree with you on the fact that if people keep going on about this baby stuff it's going to backfire on the Dems and she is going to get sympathy votes because"The big bad liberal media is picking on the little lady".:whatever::csad:

[Julio Alejandro]

She's lowered the state deficit.

[Superman]

She's lowered the state deficit.That's it? That's all you got?

She lowered the state of Alaska's deficit? A state that has more deer than people. So that makes her experienced enough to become President of the United States on day one if needed. A requirement that John McCain himself said he looked for in a VP choice.

And people on the Right wonder why we are questioning McCain's judgment.:whatever:

[kainedamo]

She's lowered the state deficit.

She increased the debt of Wasilla to $3000 per person, a town that had no debt before she came along.

[kainedamo]

I disagree with how Fox is covering this. In fact I was just watching Fox and Friends and they were talking about the "liberal media bias" in regards to Palin. They only mentioned the pregnant daughter and didn't mention the other scandals.

These are the same people that said "liberal media bias" when the other networks weren't reporting on what's his face having an affair, back when that story was only going around in one tabloid.

[Superman]

I bet I know how they are going to deal with all of these scandals.

Blame the "Liberal Media". :whatever:

Wait and see.

[kainedamo]

I bet I know how they are going to deal with all of these scandals.

Blame the "Liberal Media". :whatever:

Wait and see.

They already did, see my comments above.

[danoyse]

Apparently, my sarcasm is needed more than ever if you take yourself this seriously.

But at least you could pick-up on sarcasm without me posting smilies, so you earned a scout badge from me today for that.


Please refrain from sarcastic comments towards other posters, Hole Shot.

[ShadowBoxing]

Anyone hear this yet? :hehe:

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php
:lmao:

[SuBe]

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Incorrectly Say Palin Was a Member in 90s; McCain Camp and Alaska Division of Elections Deny Charge*

September 01, 2008 6:52 PM
The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party (http://www.akip.org/) say that Palin was once so independent, she and her husband were once member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United State.
And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm9IUfPZsX8&e) -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."
After refraining from commenting on the charge for a day, the McCain campaign on Tuesday asserted that Palin was never a member of the AIP, and
Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, told ABC News on Monday that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.
This, it should be noted, does not square with official records.
Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, tells ABC News that regardless of the impression given to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, "Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May 1982 as a Republican, and she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time."
Clark on Tuesday night said that she had been mistaken.
But for whatever reason, Clark thought that in 1994 Palin was a kindred spirit.
"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."
She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.
"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.
She doesn't know what Palin's position was.
"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But ...our platform was right under her nose."
Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI) for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFY1otOWjQ) that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town –- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -– she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won’t go into that. She also had about an 80 percent approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."
A day after ABC News requested a response from Palin as to whether she was ever a member of the AIP, McCain campain spox Brian Rogers told ABC News that Clark's "allegations are false."
"Governor Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982," Rogers says, providing voter registration documentation showing her to be a Republican. "As you know, if she changed her registration, there would have been some record of it. There isn’t."
Rogers says that Palin didn’t attend the AIP convention in 1994, "but she visited them when they had their convention in Wasilla in 2000 as a courtesy since she was mayor."
When asked if Palin ever identified herself as a member of the AIP, Rogers said, "No, she's a lifelong Republican."
The AIP platform (http://www.akip.org/platform.html) states that the purpose of the party is to "seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution ... To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature ... To support the privatization of government services ...”
Walter Hickel, a former Republican governor, was elected to the governorship in 1990 as an AIP member -- the third-largest party in Alaska -- with a plurality vote of 38.8%. A Seattle Post-Intelligencer story (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19901031&slug=1101489) that year said that "Hickel is running with the Alaska Independence Party, a fringe group advocating that the 49th state declare itself a sovereign nation. But he's not a separatist; he's an opportunist: the Independence Party was the only 11th-hour ticket to the general election."
Hickel returned to the Republican Party in 1994; he endorsed Palin in her gubernatorial run in 2006. Subsequent AIP gubernatorial candidates did not fare as well as did Hickel, garnering less than 2 percent of the vote.
Lynette Clark says that Palin is "a fine individual. She's forthright and she puts Alaska first."
She is not a fan of McCain.
"I can't understand why in God's name she has aligned herself with a candidate who opposes the development of our republic and Alaska's resource wealth," Clark says.
- jpt
* This post has been updated one day later, after the McCain campaign responded, and again after
Fenumiai returned several calls for comment. And then, once again, after Clark rescinded her assertion that Gov. Palin had been a member of the AIP.

[SuBe]

This is something I'm hearing about "Troopergate" right now on the Radio, the State Trooper apparently was caught drinking beer in his cruiser, and used his State issued Tazer on his child. I'll try to find more about this, but if anyone else can, try too.

[Lightning Strykez!]

This is getting silly now.

McCain & Co. are lashing out at the media for "smearing" Sarah & Co. about the revelations about her daughter.

Hmmmmm. :dry:

Does anybody else see something odd with that? Sarah Palin held a press conference to announce a private matter. Now we're all being slammed on for discussing said private matter. Nevermind the fact that it was McCain and Palin who paraded this poor girl out to the world in the first place. They INVITED the frenzy with that press conference. Now they have the nerve to cry foul.

You posters can correct me if I'm wrong but...This whole thing has been set up from the beginning to be a circus. It's not by mistake either. It provides A) a hot button issue to get the republican base fired up, and B) a handy distraction to take away from media attention that might otherwise go to the Dems.

McCain has said repeatedly that he wants this election to be about the issues facing this country, that he doesn't want it to turn into a debate about personal politics and personal lives. Okay. Yet, the first thing he does is wave his VP's personal life in the face of everyone on the planet???

[bell110]

I love how Fox makes a bigger story out of the "liberal media bias" than the actual story itsself.

BTW, what time is Palin supposed to speak tonight? I might have to watch that.

[IrishFightin]

I think you'll hear her speaking, her voice tends to slice right through you. She'll be a huge bust. I mean that with no double entendre.

[ShadowBoxing]

"You mean I can't give a speech about Polar Bears?"

[Zen]

Everyone is talking about a liberal media bias...

do you guys think palin is getting unfair treatment? For instance, if Obama's VP were going through these very things, would there be a difference in how these issues are handled?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg

[kainedamo]

I love how Fox makes a bigger story out of the "liberal media bias" than the actual story itsself.

BTW, what time is Palin supposed to speak tonight? I might have to watch that.

Fox, and the republicans they have on defending Palin, keep making it a gender issue. The scandals and her lack of experience have nothing to do with her being a woman.

These are the same people that accused Obama of playing the race card over one little comment Obama made. Now the same people are ranting all day long using the gender card.

[kainedamo]

Everyone is talking about a liberal media bias...

do you guys think palin is getting unfair treatment? For instance, if Obama's VP were going through these very things, would there be a difference in how these issues are handled?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg

That has to be fake.

[jaguarr]

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Incorrectly Say Palin Was a Member in 90s; McCain Camp and Alaska Division of Elections Deny Charge*

September 01, 2008 6:52 PM
The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party (http://www.akip.org/) say that Palin was once so independent, she and her husband were once member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United State.
And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm9IUfPZsX8&e) -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."
After refraining from commenting on the charge for a day, the McCain campaign on Tuesday asserted that Palin was never a member of the AIP, and
Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, told ABC News on Monday that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.
This, it should be noted, does not square with official records.
Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, tells ABC News that regardless of the impression given to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, "Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May 1982 as a Republican, and she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time."
Clark on Tuesday night said that she had been mistaken.
But for whatever reason, Clark thought that in 1994 Palin was a kindred spirit.
"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."
She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.
"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.
She doesn't know what Palin's position was.
"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But ...our platform was right under her nose."
Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI) for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFY1otOWjQ) that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town –- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -– she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won’t go into that. She also had about an 80 percent approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."
A day after ABC News requested a response from Palin as to whether she was ever a member of the AIP, McCain campain spox Brian Rogers told ABC News that Clark's "allegations are false."
"Governor Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982," Rogers says, providing voter registration documentation showing her to be a Republican. "As you know, if she changed her registration, there would have been some record of it. There isn’t."
Rogers says that Palin didn’t attend the AIP convention in 1994, "but she visited them when they had their convention in Wasilla in 2000 as a courtesy since she was mayor."
When asked if Palin ever identified herself as a member of the AIP, Rogers said, "No, she's a lifelong Republican."
The AIP platform (http://www.akip.org/platform.html) states that the purpose of the party is to "seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution ... To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature ... To support the privatization of government services ...”
Walter Hickel, a former Republican governor, was elected to the governorship in 1990 as an AIP member -- the third-largest party in Alaska -- with a plurality vote of 38.8%. A Seattle Post-Intelligencer story (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19901031&slug=1101489) that year said that "Hickel is running with the Alaska Independence Party, a fringe group advocating that the 49th state declare itself a sovereign nation. But he's not a separatist; he's an opportunist: the Independence Party was the only 11th-hour ticket to the general election."
Hickel returned to the Republican Party in 1994; he endorsed Palin in her gubernatorial run in 2006. Subsequent AIP gubernatorial candidates did not fare as well as did Hickel, garnering less than 2 percent of the vote.
Lynette Clark says that Palin is "a fine individual. She's forthright and she puts Alaska first."
She is not a fan of McCain.
"I can't understand why in God's name she has aligned herself with a candidate who opposes the development of our republic and Alaska's resource wealth," Clark says.
- jpt
* This post has been updated one day later, after the McCain campaign responded, and again after
Fenumiai returned several calls for comment. And then, once again, after Clark rescinded her assertion that Gov. Palin had been a member of the AIP.

Haha! Does McCain think he's Obi-Wan? *waves hand* "Sarah Palin was never a part of the Alaskan Independence Party." Fail, old man. Fail.

This is something I'm hearing about "Troopergate" right now on the Radio, the State Trooper apparently was caught drinking beer in his cruiser, and used his State issued Tazer on his child. I'll try to find more about this, but if anyone else can, try too.

You know, out of all the stories I've read about this (which have been a lot), I have NEVER heard that the trooper was caught drinking beer in his cruise or using his tazer on his kid. That, frankly, smells like B.S. I'll see what I come across in the news today on that.

jag

[Zen]

Palin said war in Iraq, gas pipeline are God’s will
10:00:52 PM September 2nd, 2008 Permalink | Comments (36)

The war in Iraq is part of God’s plan, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said in June in a speech at her former church.

Palin, the Republican vice presidential candidate whose son will deploy to Iraq in a few weeks, told the students that “our national leaders, are sending [the troops] out on a task that is from God.”

Building a natural-gas pipeline is also part of God’s will, she said, according to a video published by the Huffington Post taken from material posted on the website of the Wasilla Assembly of God. Read more.

Earlier, she exhorted the students to pray for pipeline, saying “we can work together to make sure God’s will is done.” She said God wanted to extract natural resources.

Palin attended the church from the time she was 12 until 2002 and she still “maintains a friendship” with the church, the church office told Huffington Post.

–Rex Nutting, MarketWatch




http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2008/09/02/palin-said-war-in-iraq-gas-pipeline-are-gods-will/

[jaguarr]

Anyone hear this yet? :hehe:

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php

LOL! :funny:

jag

[jaguarr]

Everyone is talking about a liberal media bias...

do you guys think palin is getting unfair treatment? For instance, if Obama's VP were going through these very things, would there be a difference in how these issues are handled?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg

Whoooooo!!! Chicks with guns! Whoooooo!!!!

You know, if that's a fake, it's a pretty damn good one. How sad is it that, based on her history of loving guns, I cannot completely rule out that it's not real?

jag

[Franklin Richards]

She wouldn't be wearing her glasses.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Matt]

Everyone is talking about a liberal media bias...

do you guys think palin is getting unfair treatment? For instance, if Obama's VP were going through these very things, would there be a difference in how these issues are handled?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg

I'd like to think the media and his supporters on this board would be just as hard on Obama if he went with a secessionist as his running mate...but I may be being overly generous in that assertion.

[ManofmyWord]

And according to "Levi's Myspace" that Must totally be the Baby Daddy behind her. ;)

[jaguarr]

She wouldn't be wearing her glasses.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I don't think the glasses are removable. I think they are grafted onto her head. :ninja:

I'd like to think the media and his supporters on this board would be just as hard on Obama if he went with a secessionist as his running mate...but I may be being overly generous in that assertion.

Damn straight I would be criticizing Obama for choosing a secessionist for a VP if he was dumb enough to do that. But he wasn't dumb enough to do that. Someone else was. :o

jag

[Franklin Richards]

Is that a Schlitz? Who the hell still drinks Schlitz???


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SuBe]

I'd like to think the media and his supporters on this board would be just as hard on Obama if he went with a secessionist as his running mate...but I may be being overly generous in that assertion.
The AIP claim has been debunked, I posted the article earlier today.

[Zen]

I'd like to think the media and his supporters on this board would be just as hard on Obama if he went with a secessionist as his running mate...but I may be being overly generous in that assertion.

i just felt like it could be so much worse.

we could be hearing about how this a wildly inexperienced candidate... tlaking about the daughter 24/7 and talking about troopergate and the bridge to nowhere forever.

i feel like shes getting a fair shake, but as someone whos been supporting Obama for quite a while now im a bit paranoid that i cant see the media Bias...

i was watching Morning joe today... and they talked about it as if it was definite.

and do you think the secessionist thing is going to be a problem?

[Franklin Richards]

That's not debunked. That's like the Bridge to Nowhere. She was for it before she was against it.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Zen]

Being a registered Republican and a member of the AIP are not mutually exclusive superman. (if you posted the same article i saw)

:confused:

[jaguarr]

The AIP claim has been debunked, I posted the article earlier today.

No it hasn't. :huh: It's just an article where McCain's campaign says she was never a member of the AIP, despite many people from the AIP saying she was. And being a member of the AIP is still possible while being a registered Republican (or Democrat for that matter).

:huh:

jag

[jaguarr]

Look Sarah! Look what you started!

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5711359&page=1

Palin Daughter's Pregnancy Spurs Sex Ed Debate
Some Renew Call for Sex Education Reform; Other Remain Firm in Abstinence-Only
By DAN CHILDS
ABC News Medical Unit

Sept. 3, 2008—

The revelation Monday that the 17-year-old unmarried daughter of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is pregnant has reignited debate over whether sex education programs focusing primarily on abstinence are effective in keeping teen pregnancy rates down.

The campaigns of both Republican John McCain, who on Friday named Palin as his running mate, and Democrat Barack Obama have emphasized that the matter should not be exploited for political ends. But even so, the announcement has the potential to make waves as both McCain and Palin have expressed a commitment to so-called abstinence-only sex education programs.

Sexual health experts overwhelmingly agree that such programs represent an ineffective strategy in reducing teen birthrates, favoring instead what is known as comprehensive sexuality education. Such programs incorporate advice on using contraceptives and safe sex practices to reduce the risk of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

"Bristol Palin's pregnancy is another illustration of the need for comprehensive sexuality education," said Stephen Conley, executive director of the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists.

"It's a reminder of how, even in strong families where youth are taught to refrain from sex until marriage, teens can make poor decisions," he said. "Teens need the reinforcement of school programs that give them the information and skills they need to take responsibility for their sexual health."

Eli Coleman, professor and director of the Program in Human Sexuality at the University of Minnesota Medical School, agrees.

"This is just another case of the countless teens that become pregnant in this country," he said, adding that the United States has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the world.

"Armed with one of the most effective educational systems in the world, the nation's policymakers have chosen to invest in a sexuality education approach that preaches abstinence until marriage," he said. "As a consequence, America's youth have been denied knowledge about how to protect themselves and their partners when they do become sexually active."

On the other side of the debate are groups such as Abstinence Clearinghouse, which maintain that abstinence-only programs work to reduce risky sex behaviors in teens.

Leslee J. Unruh, founder and president of the Abstinence Clearinghouse, says that linking Bristol Palin's situation to the debate on the validity of these approaches is "a cheap shot."

"Abstinence works. It works every single time," she said. "I think it is very unfair to blame the abstinence community and abstinence legislation. ... Blaming sex education for the failures of people who make a mistake is not fair."

Sex Education a Topic of Fierce Debate

The debate over what role the educational system should play in sex education has raged since sex ed programs built around abstinence were first put into practice in 1996. Today, federally funded programs are required to teach that abstinence is the only certain way to avoid unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, and that a monogamous marriage is the expected standard of sexual activity.

Schools that receive funds are also barred from providing more comprehensive information on contraception or safer sex practices to prevent STDs -- even if nonfederal funds are used for that purpose.

"Since 1996, over $1.5 billion in U.S. tax dollars have been spent on abstinence-only until marriage programs and without having any impact," Conley said. "Governors are paying attention to this huge waste of public money. That's why 25 states, including Alaska -- prior to Gov. Palin's term -- have withdrawn from federal funding under the Title V abstinence-only program."

Wasilla High School, one of the schools that Bristol Palin attended, is one of the country's many schools that promotes an abstinence-based sexual education curriculum. A message left with the school was not returned. But on Tuesday, the Boston Herald reported that Principal Dwight Probasco said the school's sex ed program pushes abstinence, and that the school is barred from distributing contraception.

But Unruh says that the programs cannot necessarily be blamed in the care of Bristol Palin.

"To say that this young woman was given information on abstinence, we can't know that," she said. "If she was, it should have worked. But people make mistakes."

Those on both sides of the issue claim to have research on their side. Proponents of comprehensive sex education for teens point to a study known as the Mathematica study, which suggests that abstinence-only methods are ineffective. Unruh calls the study flawed, noting that the research was performed using a population of teens already at high risk for sexual activity and pregnancy.

Still, other studies also suggest that comprehensive sex education -- which proponents note encourages both abstinence and safe sex if sex occurs -- is more effective than its more abstinence-heavy counterpart.

"There is strong evidence that implementing comprehensive programs can achieve some of the goals of both those who strongly believe young people should abstain from sex and and those who believe young people should use contraception if they do have sex," said Doug Kirby, a research scientist who specializes in studying the effects of sex education on teens.

"On the other hand, we must also recognize that comprehensive sex education programs are not a cure-all," he said. "They reduce sexual risk-taking by about one-third. This is much better than nothing."

Kirby adds that while the Mathematica study and two other studies suggest that abstinence-only programs have little if any effect on sexual behavior, he notes that other research shows very weak evidence that one or two of the abstinence programs used today may delay teens' initiation of sex.

Still, some research suggests that adolescents who take pledges to remain abstinent until marriage do work. On Tuesday, research released by the Journal of Adolescent Health suggested that those age 12 to 17 who make such pledges delay having sexual intercourse longer than other adolescents who are similar to them but who do not take such a pledge.

"Our data suggest that it is a good idea for teens who are inclined to delay sex to make a pledge, because they're more likely to delay sex if they do so," said lead study author Steven Martino, a behavioral scientist at RAND in Pittsburgh, in a press release issued Tuesday.

Isolated Incident, or Example?

Still, sexual health experts maintain that comprehensive sex education is more effective than abstinence-only programs. And they point to Bristol Palin's situation as evidence.

"It is impossible to ignore such a public example of how abstinence education -- even strong parental values -- are not enough to help young people negotiate their own sexual feelings and desires," said Pepper Schwartz, professor of sociology at the University of Washington in Seattle.

"Hopefully, teens will get the message that having sex at a young age at all -- and certainly without protection -- is unwise," said Judy Kuriansky, a clinical psychologist at Columbia University Teachers College. "Hopefully it will make parents wake up to see that their kids are not listening to them ... and as a result they will fall into the same predicament as Bristol Palin, who likely didn't use protection because that would have been really against her mother's approval."

But Unruh says it should be parents -- not educators -- who should talk to children and teens about sex.

"The fact is that it is a private matter," she said. "We think 'family first,' and we think that parents are the primary sex educators of children. But children will make their own decisions."

"We don't know the whole story. ... In this case, nobody has heard her story."

I've been waiting for this kind of article and debate to arise ever since she announced her daughter was pregnant. Her stance on sex-education was bound to be scrutinized anyway, but now it's front and center.

jag

[jaguarr]

Is that a Schlitz? Who the hell still drinks Schlitz???


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I'll take "Rednecks With Bad Taste" for $1,000, Alex.

jag

[Matt]

i just felt like it could be so much worse.

we could be hearing about how this a wildly inexperienced candidate... tlaking about the daughter 24/7 and talking about troopergate and the bridge to nowhere forever.

i feel like shes getting a fair shake, but as someone whos been supporting Obama for quite a while now im a bit paranoid that i cant see the media Bias...

i was watching Morning joe today... and they talked about it as if it was definite.

and do you think the secessionist thing is going to be a problem?

If the secessionist thing is true...then yes. It is going to be a huge f'n problem. I mean, just stop and think...the woman running for Vice President of the United States wanted to remove her state from the Union. It'll be a huge problem...if true (and if the Obama campaign is competent enough to use it right). I think McCain really ought to find a new running mate.

[jaguarr]

If the secessionist thing is true...then yes. It is going to be a huge f'n problem. I mean, just stop and think...the woman running for Vice President of the United States wanted to remove her state from the Union. It'll be a huge problem...if true (and if the Obama campaign is competent enough to use it right). I think McCain really ought to find a new running mate.

I don't think Obama will even have to touch it. The media will tear her apart over it. The half-assed attempt by the McCain Campaign to gloss it over and say it never happened is laughable. There are too many AIP members coming out of the woodwork saying she and her husband were members. Even if there's no conclusive proof, there's enough there to cast doubt.

jag

[Gilpesh]

I think McCain really ought to find a new running mate.

Or... he'll display that 90% alike with Bush and stick with a bad move until the bitter end.

[Zen]

has anyone ever switched vp nominees?

could a candidate survive that? i dunno... i think there would be questions about his judgment if he did it.

[Franklin Richards]

Eagleton


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Matt]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though.

Palin, in my opinion, has ended this campaign. There is no way for McCain to recover, unless something like Obama being a black panther who called for the violent over throw of the government comes out (and what are the odds of that?). The only way for McCain to recover is a much greater Obama scandal. Otherwise, he's done. Hell...I've been Obama's biggest critic yet I am now tempted to vote for him (or perhaps more accurately, vote Biden for vice-president, cause God damn, I do like Joe Biden)...because voting third party or for McCain would be aiding a man who picked a ****ing secessionist as his running mate take office. I mean...the sheer stupidity...how can I in good conscience support that?

[Gilpesh]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though.

I like how people have asked that question.... and are sexists for it.

But if she needs to get out of the way... she says that and everyone just goes "Awwwww."

[jaguarr]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though.

There is no good way out of this for McCain. And, it's REALLY starting to look like there's no good way for him to stay in it with her, either.

jag

[jaguarr]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though. Palin, in my opinion, has ended this campaign. Hell...I've been Obama's biggest critic yet I am now tempted to vote for him (or perhaps more accurately, vote Biden for vice-president, cause God damn, I do like Joe Biden)...because voting third party or for McCain would be aiding a man who picked a ****ing secessionist as his running mate take office. I mean...the sheer stupidity...how can I in good conscience support that?

You know what, Matt? You're not the first person I've heard that was going to sit this election out or vote third-party change their mind to vote against McCain thanks to all this Palin crap.

jag

[Matt]

You know what, Matt? You're not the first person I've heard that was going to sit this election out or vote third-party change their mind to vote against McCain thanks to all this Palin crap.

jag

Okay, best case scenario for McCain...he just honestly did not know.

Worst case scenario...HE BROUGHT A ****ING SECESSIONIST ONTO HIS TICKET!

Either way...it just shows extreme, total stupidity and the man has no business being Commander-In-Chief.

[jaguarr]

Okay, best case scenario for McCain...he just honestly did not know.

Worst case scenario...HE BROUGHT A ****ING SECESSIONIST ONTO HIS TICKET!

Either way...it just shows extreme, total stupidity and the man has no business being Commander-In-Chief.

Add in the fact that she's in the middle of a VERY serious ethics scandal that could bring criminal charges against her, and that's two VERY good reasons to avoid her like the plague as a VP running mate.

I have some serious issues with what the lead investigator said about McCain's campaign trying to repress the results until after the election. WTF? It almost smells like "I'll use Sarah to get elected, then let the report come out and let her get convicted, remove her from office and replace her with someone I really like but never would have helped me get elected like Lieberman". That's what it smells like to me.

jag

[Matt]

Yeah, the whole damn thing stinks. I used to think "4 years of dead lock, followed by Mark Warner? Not too bad..." Now...a ****ing secessionist. Just too much. I wonder if they sell just "Joe Biden for Vice-President 2008" bumper stickers?

[bell110]

has anyone ever switched vp nominees?

could a candidate survive that? i dunno... i think there would be questions about his judgment if he did it.

That's the thing, he wouldn't publically ask her to step aside. He'll make it look like it's her decision.

[kainedamo]

I think its too late for him to pull her out of the ticket.

The only chance McCain's camp has is to somehow repair Palin's image from now to the election, and white wash over the controversy.

[Gilpesh]

Yeah, the whole damn thing stinks. I used to think "4 years of dead lock, followed by Mark Warner? Not too bad..." Now...a ****ing secessionist. Just too much. I wonder if they sell just "Joe Biden for Vice-President 2008" bumper stickers?

Oh... he'll be president in no time. Unless Chris Rock is wrong about the first black president's fate.

[Matt]

Oh... he'll be president in no time. Unless Chris Rock is wrong about the first black president's fate.

I have doubts on if it can be done...with post JFK secret service being what it is...then again, Hinckley got a shot off at Reagan, so its not impossible.

[jaguarr]

I think its too late for him to pull her out of the ticket.

The only chance McCain's camp has is to somehow repair Palin's image from now to the election, and white wash over the controversy.

That's exactly what they will try to do. Judging by how successful they've been at it so far, I predict epic fail. There's just too many issues coming up. The McCain Campaign is looking like the dutch boy with his finger stuck in the dyke. Okay, maybe that was a bad analogy...

jag

[ManofmyWord]

Which could mean Not so bright Conservatives might actually give sympathy for Mccain.

"Aww Look, his VP is stepping down for her kids, it wasn't his fault"

[Matt]

That's exactly what they will try to do. Judging by how successful they've been at it so far, I predict epic fail. There's just too many issues coming up. The McCain Campaign is looking like the dutch boy with his finger stuck in the dyke. Okay, maybe that was a bad analogy...

jag

:hehe: So wrong.

Yeah, its just too much at one time to gloss over it. They really ought to have vetted her better or gone with Romney or Pawlenty, or even Condi Rice. She may have ties to the administration, but atleast the media has already torn her as many new ones as they can.

[Gilpesh]

:hehe: So wrong.

Yeah, its just too much at one time to gloss over it. They really ought to have vetted her better or gone with Romney or Pawlenty, or even Condi Rice. She may have ties to the administration, but atleast the media has already torn her as many new ones as they can.

There was a great flub on one of the news channels... someone called her Sarah Pawlenty...

Even they wanted Pawlenty over Palin.

[jaguarr]

:hehe: So wrong.

Yeah, its just too much at one time to gloss over it. They really ought to have vetted her better or gone with Romney or Pawlenty, or even Condi Rice. She may have ties to the administration, but atleast the media has already torn her as many new ones as they can.

I'm not so sure about Condi. I mean, she's said she wants to go back to the private sector and all, but there's just this nagging voice in the back of my head that says there's some really nasty skeleton in her closet that they don't want getting out and that's why she's really not on the ticket or even running for President herself.

jag

[kainedamo]

That's exactly what they will try to do. Judging by how successful they've been at it so far, I predict epic fail. There's just too many issues coming up. The McCain Campaign is looking like the dutch boy with his finger stuck in the dyke. Okay, maybe that was a bad analogy...

jag

The thing that concerns me is this.

We're all obviously intelligent fellows who enjoy keeping up with current affairs and politics. We're eager people thirsting for knowledge, seeking out each knew Palin scandal, and analysing the GOP's desperate defense of her. While most of us are in agreement that McCain screwed up in picking her, what matters is the opinion of the general public. And let's be honest, people can be very dumb, and they can have a very short attention span. I watched a clip of a guy asking random people about Palin and a woman replied "isn't she supposed to be very liberal?". What matters is how the public percieves Palin, and their attention span may be so short that in two weeks they won't even remember what half of the controversy was about.

[Raiden]

Add in the fact that she's in the middle of a VERY serious ethics scandal that could bring criminal charges against her, and that's two VERY good reasons to avoid her like the plague as a VP running mate.

I have some serious issues with what the lead investigator said about McCain's campaign trying to repress the results until after the election. WTF? It almost smells like "I'll use Sarah to get elected, then let the report come out and let her get convicted, remove her from office and replace her with someone I really like but never would have helped me get elected like Lieberman". That's what it smells like to me.

jag

That actually sounds pausible, and may explain why McCain decides to stick with Palin despite her growing list of scandals. He probably figures that the ultra-conservatives will vote for him because of Palin, and once elected he can dump her (asked her to voluntarily resign) so he can get the VP he always wanted, which is probably Lieberman. I'm sure Lieberman would've been his running mate if he didn't encounter strong resistence within the GOP party.

[Matt]

I'm not so sure about Condi. I mean, she's said she wants to go back to the private sector and all, but there's just this nagging voice in the back of my head that says there's some really nasty skeleton in her closet that they don't want getting out and that's why she's really not on the ticket or even running for President herself.

jag

Condi Rice: Destroyer of Worlds

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/865/condi5my.jpg

:wow:

[Marx]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though.

Palin, in my opinion, has ended this campaign. There is no way for McCain to recover, unless something like Obama being a black panther who called for the violent over throw of the government comes out (and what are the odds of that?). The only way for McCain to recover is a much greater Obama scandal. Otherwise, he's done. Hell...I've been Obama's biggest critic yet I am now tempted to vote for him (or perhaps more accurately, vote Biden for vice-president, cause God damn, I do like Joe Biden)...because voting third party or for McCain would be aiding a man who picked a ****ing secessionist as his running mate take office. I mean...the sheer stupidity...how can I in good conscience support that?

Welcome to the darkside Matt! :oldrazz:

[Julio Alejandro]

I wanna have a threesome with Palin and Meghan McCain.

[Matt]

Welcome to the darkside Matt! :oldrazz:

Not quite yet...but I'm getting there. I'm out of the Nader camp and back into the undecided camp :csad:

[Marx]

Palin said war in Iraq, gas pipeline are God’s will
10:00:52 PM September 2nd, 2008 Permalink | Comments (36)

The war in Iraq is part of God’s plan, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said in June in a speech at her former church.

Palin, the Republican vice presidential candidate whose son will deploy to Iraq in a few weeks, told the students that “our national leaders, are sending [the troops] out on a task that is from God.”

Building a natural-gas pipeline is also part of God’s will, she said, according to a video published by the Huffington Post taken from material posted on the website of the Wasilla Assembly of God. Read more.

Earlier, she exhorted the students to pray for pipeline, saying “we can work together to make sure God’s will is done.” She said God wanted to extract natural resources.

Palin attended the church from the time she was 12 until 2002 and she still “maintains a friendship” with the church, the church office told Huffington Post.

–Rex Nutting, MarketWatch




http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2008/09/02/palin-said-war-in-iraq-gas-pipeline-are-gods-will/

:whatever:

[Überlibran]

Oh... he'll be president in no time. Unless Chris Rock is wrong about the first black president's fate. Aw man, don't say that... not even in jest. It's one of my biggest fears. It's only reason my mom doesn't want to vote for him - she's afraid for his safety. :csad:

[Marx]

Not quite yet...but I'm getting there. I'm out of the Nader camp and back into the undecided camp :csad:

I have said why I am now backing Obama. In this very thread actually. You know how harsh of a critic I have been of Barack Obama. But the fact that he chose Biden (who I have tremendous respect for,) his 'realness' in his convention speech, and now with the fact that McCain picked this trainwreck of a VP...I am voting for Obama/Biden.

[Gilpesh]

Aw man, don't say not... not even in jest. It's one of my biggest fears. It's only reason my mom doesn't want to vote for him - she's afraid for his safety. :csad:

Sad thing is... my comment was not very jestery. :csad:

[kainedamo]

What a scandal machine.

She smoked marijuana...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/29/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4397109.shtml?weed

[Julio Alejandro]

"Although it seems heaven-sent, we ain't ready to have a black president." - 2Pac

[kane9321]

Not quite yet...but I'm getting there. I'm out of the Nader camp and back into the undecided camp :csad:

join us:cmad:

[Julio Alejandro]

What a scandal machine.

She smoked marijuana...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/29/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4397109.shtml?weed
So did Obama, Billy C & G-Dub.

[kainedamo]

So did Obama, Billy C & G-Dub.

Hey, I'm not saying anything is wrong with it! But if neo cons got wind of the news that she smoked marijuana?

[Matt]

Hey, I'm not saying anything is wrong with it! But if neo cons got wind of the news that she smoked marijuana?

If they'll support an ex-coke addict, I'm sure this won't bother them too much.

But seriously, just legalize it.

[Franklin Richards]

Just ask yourself.


What Would Willie Do?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Julio Alejandro]

I really don't care if any of these people smoke weed, as long as they do a good job. Just look at Ricky Williams.

[Raiden]

What a scandal machine.

She smoked marijuana...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/29/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4397109.shtml?weed

So GOP has a VP who smoked weeds and has a pregnant unwed 17-year-old. I don't think they can have this "holier-than-thou" attitude after this anymore.

[Julio Alejandro]

And, I hope they don't because what this country really needs, is some honesty for a change.

[Matt]

And, I hope they don't because what this country really needs, is some honesty for a change.

Then we've nominated the wrong two candidates :csad:

[Marx]

So GOP has a VP who smoked weeds and has a pregnant unwed 17-year-old. I don't think they can have this "holier-than-thou" attitude after this anymore.

But they still will anyway. The harder right has bible-thumped the Democratic party for a long time now...saying that they're godless and immoral. The harder right has condemned unwed pregnant mothers as being sinners and 'not in god's will.' Yet they jump to defend this girl because she's the daughter of the VP candidate and is 'doing the right thing.'

I hate hypocrisy.

[Julio Alejandro]

Then we've nominated the wrong two candidates :csad:
No kidding.

[Matt]

No kidding.

Obama vs. McCain...we're ****ed either way :csad:

[Marx]

Obama vs. McCain...we're ****ed either way :csad:

Biden vs. Palin. Then what say you?

[Matt]

I'd say bring on President Biden. :up:

[Marx]

I'd say bring on President Biden. :up:

Me too!

[Julio Alejandro]

http://mckinney2008.com/PRESIDENT/images/image2.1.png

[Raiden]

I'd say bring on President Biden. :up:

Yeah, I think Obama got the edge with Biden, and McCain loses his with Palin.

So Biden wins. :cwink:

[UA-Archangel]

She increased the debt of Wasilla to $3000 per person, a town that had no debt before she came along.

Having no debt often implies a lack of economic activity and opportunity.

It also means that town isn't growing.

Otherwise, having a debt doesn't mean much.

[IrishFightin]

Having no debt often implies a lack of economic activity and opportunity.

It also means that town isn't growing.

Otherwise, having a debt doesn't mean much.


Other than you owe money you dont have?

[Überlibran]

Obama vs. McCain...we're ****ed either way :csad: Actually, I'm pretty pleased with Obama. He's far from perfect *cough*FISA*cough* and will make mistakes if he's elected president, but I'm coming to trust his judgment a little more, especially since his choice of Biden as his running mate versus the choice of someone with so much 'experience' but crappy judgment.

[UA-Archangel]

Other than you owe money you dont have?

Going into debt to build infrastructure and create taxable opportunities is not considered bad debt. For example, if you went into debt to build an airport, you've created a situation where people can now fly in to your town and invest, rather than not come at all.

The only bad debt is when you're using it to fund social programs.

[souvlaki]

What a scandal machine.

She smoked marijuana...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/29/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4397109.shtml?weed

Oh dear lord, no! Not marijuana! Seriously, I think we are just looking for anything at this point.

[UA-Archangel]

Oh dear lord, no! Not marijuana! Seriously, I think we are just looking for anything at this point.

Call me when you have something serious on Palin.

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm not so sure about Condi. I mean, she's said she wants to go back to the private sector and all, but there's just this nagging voice in the back of my head that says there's some really nasty skeleton in her closet that they don't want getting out and that's why she's really not on the ticket or even running for President herself.

jag

Well, I think we already know what that nasty skeleton is.

She's a lesbian. :dry:

And yes, I'm being totally serious. Have you EVER seen her with a male beau?

[Zen]

Does Palin speak tonight at the convention?

im pretty sure she does,

this is it... i think alot is going to rest on her speech. either she nails it and becomes excalibur for john McCain...

or its pretty much a weight tied to McCains ankles. i think even a marginally good speech is not going to be enough... but if she somehow delivers a louisville slugger and cranks one out of St. paul.

i think its going to be hard for Obama to hold any measureable lead. this palin thing seems like its got a 15 % chance of being genius... and a 85% chance of being disaster, and a good chunk of that is on her shoulders tonight when she speaks

[Lightning Strykez!]

I think its too late for him to pull her out of the ticket.

The only chance McCain's camp has is to somehow repair Palin's image from now to the election, and white wash over the controversy.

There is not enough time even for that at this point. The election is in 7 weeks!! :eek:

Look, we all knew that McCain was going to wait until Barak named his VP choice to announce his own. This entire charade has been 100% reactionary to the Obama campaign. THEY are leading the way for McCain's camp, right down to the strategic political decisions they're making now.

And that's sad. :down

[Gilpesh]

Going into debt to build infrastructure and create taxable opportunities is not considered bad debt. For example, if you went into debt to build an airport, you've created a situation where people can now fly in to your town and invest, rather than not come at all.

The only bad debt is when you're using it to fund social programs.

Now where do you see that is what she did with it?

[danoyse]

:hehe: So wrong.

Yeah, its just too much at one time to gloss over it. They really ought to have vetted her better or gone with Romney or Pawlenty, or even Condi Rice. She may have ties to the administration, but atleast the media has already torn her as many new ones as they can.

I still think they picked her name out of a hat. OK, maybe not that extreme...but it sure seems this way. I heard one McCain spokesperson say they were hoping to keep the pregnancy issue out of the press until after the convention. Are they serious? You pick a mostly unknown candidate, and you don't realize that the media is going to fall over themselves digging every skeleton out of her closet over the next few days?

They were completely unprepared for any of this--which only shows how little vetting they did beforehand.

[Poetic Chaos]

Gavin Newsom 2012

[Lightning Strykez!]

I still think they picked her name out of a hat. OK, maybe not that extreme...but it sure seems this way. I heard one McCain spokesperson say they were hoping to keep the pregnancy issue out of the press until after the convention. Are they serious? You pick a mostly unknown candidate, and you don't realize that the media is going to fall over themselves digging every skeleton out of her closet over the next few days?

They were completely unprepared for any of this--which only shows how little vetting they did beforehand.

I agree with this.

Although I still can't shake the feeling that McCain only did this to "one-up" the historical break-through of Obama's acceptance speech. I seriously doubt the timing of the release of Palin's running was a coincidence. :whatever:

Sarah Palin's VP selection reminds me of 20th Century FOX selecting Jessica Alba to play a WASP Invisible Woman for their Fantastic Four films: a decision solely driven by $$$ and marketing and not what was best for the film...or in Sarah's case, the country.

[Marx]

Are you ready for yet another story on Sarah Palin?

PALIN SLASHED FUNDING FOR TEEN MOMS
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/09/02/PH2008090202312.jpg


(The hits just keep coming!)

[UA-Archangel]

Now where do you see that is what she did with it?

As I explained to Kaindamo, I don't have to know where she put the money. She and her council (let's not forget that mayors still only get one vote) got the town into debt and despite that, the town still heavily supported her. That means whatever was done with the money had the support of the town. If she had mispent the money, she wouldn't have had support of the town.

That's all I really need to know.

[kane9321]

Gavin Newsom 2012

san francisco in the house

[Lightning Strykez!]

Are you ready for yet another story on Sarah Palin?

PALIN SLASHED FUNDING FOR TEEN MOMS
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/09/02/PH2008090202312.jpg


(The hits just keep coming!)

Nice find.

However, I'm sure if she's elected VP of the U.S. she'll make sure funding is available. After all, her own daughter is a teen mom now. :whatever:

[kainedamo]

As I explained to Kaindamo, I don't have to know where she put the money. She and her council (let's not forget that mayors still only get one vote) got the town into debt and despite that, the town still heavily supported her. That means whatever was done with the money had the support of the town. If she had mispent the money, she wouldn't have had support of the town.

That's all I really need to know.

That's a really weak way to debate, I have to say. I couldn't be comfortable myself of putting such lack of thought into a strongly held view.

[danoyse]

I agree with this.

Although I still can't shake the feeling that McCain only did this to "one-up" the historical break-through of Obama's acceptance speech. I seriously doubt the timing of the release of Palin's running was a coincidence. :whatever:

Sarah Palin's VP selection reminds me of 20th Century FOX selecting Jessica Alba to play a WASP Invisible Woman for their Fantastic Four films: a decision solely driven by $$$ and marketing and not what was best for the film...or in Sarah's case, the country.

All I could think was...this is the best they can do? It was like the only thing they thought they understood about Hillary Clinton was that she had woman voters and we'd just settle for the same thing. It only just shows how out of touch they are with the voters.

I don't know anyone who was swept over to McCain's side by this. In fact, I know someone who now refuses to vote for McCain because of Palin, and he's a political science professor.

[UA-Archangel]

That's a really weak way to debate, I have to say. I couldn't be comfortable myself of putting such lack of thought into a strongly held view.

It's not weak at all. Every community has different needs.
It's not my position to decide for that community how it should spend it's resources.

If a community supports how the money was spent, then it was money well spent.

[Franklin Richards]

I agree with this.

Although I still can't shake the feeling that McCain only did this to "one-up" the historical break-through of Obama's acceptance speech. I seriously doubt the timing of the release of Palin's running was a coincidence. :whatever:

Sarah Palin's VP selection reminds me of 20th Century FOX selecting Jessica Alba to play a WASP Invisible Woman for their Fantastic Four films: a decision solely driven by $$$ and marketing and not what was best for the film...or in Sarah's case, the country.


Just gonna drive the knife in a little deeper, aren't ya?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[kainedamo]

It's not weak at all. Every community has different needs.
It's not my position to decide for that community how it should spend it's resources.

If a community supports how the money was spent, then it was money well spent.


You have no basis for your view. You are simply going off on the approval rating. It's a small town, dude.

[Franklin Richards]

If you did say that you weren't satisfied with Palin, you'd prolly get fired.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jaguarr]

Does Palin speak tonight at the convention?

im pretty sure she does,

this is it... i think alot is going to rest on her speech. either she nails it and becomes excalibur for john McCain...

or its pretty much a weight tied to McCains ankles. i think even a marginally good speech is not going to be enough... but if she somehow delivers a louisville slugger and cranks one out of St. paul.

i think its going to be hard for Obama to hold any measureable lead. this palin thing seems like its got a 15 % chance of being genius... and a 85% chance of being disaster, and a good chunk of that is on her shoulders tonight when she speaks

I think they have an 85% chance of solidiyfing their own BASE that they should already have with Palin and her speech tonight. The moderates and independents they were hoping to attract with her seem to be running away from her in droves, in very large part because of Palin's stance on most issues. No matter WHAT she says tonight, those folks are going to be voting on where she stands on the issues and unfortunately she is tailor-made to appeal to the hard, hard, hard right and evangelicals not the average American who's just middle-of-the-road.

jag

[jaguarr]

If you did say that you weren't satisfied with Palin, you'd prolly get fired.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I hear librarian and Police Chief are good careers in that town. Openings come up often. :ninja:

jag

[Lightning Strykez!]

Just gonna drive the knife in a little deeper, aren't ya?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Sad but true. :(

I still wear scars from those days. And I love Jessica Alba. :dry: But still...it was done purely for political gain.

[UA-Archangel]

You have no basis for your view. You are simply going off on the approval rating. It's a small town, dude.

And Alaska is a big state and she still has mile high support from her constituents.

Accusing a politician of mismanaging funds, solely because of one economic indicator shows your lack of economic knowldge.

[bell110]

Well, I think we already know what that nasty skeleton is.

She's a lesbian. :dry:

And yes, I'm being totally serious. Have you EVER seen her with a male beau?


Actually, that's kind of hot.

[kainedamo]

And Alaska is a big state and she still has mile high support from her constituents.

Accusing a politician of mismanaging funds, solely because of one economic indicator shows your lack of economic knowldge.

No, dude, seriously - your argument is terrible.

She put Wasilla into debt, when there was no debt before she was mayor. A debt of $3000 per person. Your only argument that it was money well spent is that she has a good approval rating. No, that isn't good enough. It's a small town, she can easily placate them. You have to point out what that money went on to more effectively strengthen your argument.

[jaguarr]

Just gonna drive the knife in a little deeper, aren't ya?


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Orange Circus Peanut. That's all I will say on the matter.

jag

[Lightning Strykez!]

Actually, that's kind of hot.

But it's Condoleeza. :whatever:

So no, it's not hot.

[jaguarr]

And Alaska is a big state and she still has mile high support from her constituents.

Accusing a politician of mismanaging funds, solely because of one economic indicator shows your lack of economic knowldge.

Err....Alaska is a big state with a TINY population. :dry: She also inherited the Governor's job from a guy who was almost universally hated in Alaska. And, the economy is very prosperous there from the oil industry. It'd be hard to screw all that up and really make people hate you.

jag

[danoyse]

I think they have an 85% chance of solidiyfing their own BASE that they should already have with Palin and her speech tonight. The moderates and independents they were hoping to attract with her seem to be running away from her in droves, in very large part because of Palin's stance on most issues. No matter WHAT she says tonight, those folks are going to be voting on where she stands on the issues and unfortunately she is tailor-made to appeal to the hard, hard, hard right and evangelicals not the average American who's just middle-of-the-road.

jag

Exactly. No matter how good her speech is tonight, and I think she's going to do well...she's really just preaching to the choir at this point.

[UA-Archangel]

Err....Alaska is a big state with a TINY population. :dry: She also inherited the Governor's job from a guy who was almost universally hated in Alaska. And, the economy is very prosperous there from the oil industry. It'd be hard to screw all that up and really make people hate you.

jag

She didn't inherit the job. She ran for it and got it.

People, even in a prosperous economy, don't like their money mismanaged.

She wouldn't enjoy support of 80 percent or better if she was doing a bad job.

That's a fact.

[Gilpesh]

She didn't inherit the job. She ran for it and got it.

People, even in a prosperous economy, don't like their money mismanaged.

She wouldn't enjoy support of 80 percent or better if she was doing a bad job.

That's a fact.

You seem to continuously bring up the 80% approval rating... to justify everything she's ever done in office. But when exactly was the 80 percent? When she was governor? When she was mayor?

Cause there is a nasty little article that says she was almost recalled as mayor because she fired a bunch of people for no reason.

Also, when exactly is that 80 percent coming from? Was it when she was first elected? Or was it recent? Is it before or after she was under investigation for corruption for firing a guy that disagreed with her and stood up to her?

[jaguarr]

She didn't inherit the job. She ran for it and got it.

Oh, from what I've read, the last governor was so unpopular a monkey could have run for the position and won.


People, even in a prosperous economy, don't like their money mismanaged.

But people in a prosperous economy are a lot less likely to bat their eyes too much at government misappropriations and pork-barrel spending (which she did plenty of) as long as they've got theirs. Know what I mean? ;)


She wouldn't enjoy support of 80 percent or better if she was doing a bad job.

That's a fact.

That's a fact you don't have a supporting link for. :)

jag

[Raiden]

McCain ad: Palin more qualified than Obama
Mike Allen
Wed Sep 3, 8:21 AM ET



Mounting a ferocious defense of his embattled running mate, John McCain said he is buying a TV ad arguing that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has more experience than the Democratic presidential nominee, Barack Obama.


In an effort to rev up conservatives, a campaign statement issued a list of critical media mentions that it called “smears” of Palin, who speaks in primetime at the convention on Wednesday night.

The campaign announced: “The McCain campaign will launch a television ad directly comparing Gov. Palin’s executive experience as a governor who oversees 24,000 state employees, 14 statewide cabinet agencies and a $ 10 billion budget to Barack Obama’s experience as a one-term junior senator from Illinois.”

The ad is what the campaign calls “a forward-leaning effort to counter the shameless smears that have prevailed during Gov. Palin’s introduction to the American voter.”

Senior adviser Steve Schmidt gave Politico a statement saying the campaign will have no more comment about the vetting process, which was the subject of more critical coverage in Wednesday morning’s papers:

“Gov. Sarah Palin is an exceptional governor with a record of accomplishment that exceeds, by far, the governing accomplishments of Sen. Obama. Her selection came after a six-month long rigorous vetting process where her extraordinary credentials and exceptionalism became clear. This vetting controversy is a faux media scandal designed to destroy the first female Republican nominee for vice president of the United States who has never been a part of the old boys' network that has come to dominate the news establishment in this country. Sen. McCain picked his governing partner after a long and thorough search. Gov. Palin looks forward to addressing the nation and laying out the fundamental choice this election represents for the American people.

"The McCain campaign will have no further comment about our long and thorough process. This nonsense is over. It is time to begin the debate about how to win the two wars this country is engaged in,how to make this country energy independent and how to create jobs for American families that are hurting. The American people get to do the vetting now on Election Day — Nov. 4."

I guess they will try to argue that the executive > senate, no matter the years.

[Franklin Richards]

Colbert had a point. If executive experience is more important then McCain has inferior experience as well.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jaguarr]

I guess they will try to argue that the executive > senate, no matter the years.

If they're going to cling to "executive experience" as being infinitely more valuable than Senate experience, then she's more qualified that John McCain and they should flip the ticket around and let him run for VP. It's like they are ASKING to have that hypocrisy pointed about McCain and Palin; by their own criteria, they also fail. WTF?

jag

[Gilpesh]

I guess they will try to argue that the executive > senate, no matter the years.

If so... then they should give Palin the Presidential nomination.

[lazur]

If they're going to cling to "executive experience" as being infinitely more valuable than Senate experience, then she's more qualified that John McCain and they should flip the ticket around and let him run for VP. It's like they are ASKING to have that hypocrisy pointed about McCain and Palin; by their own criteria, they also fail. WTF?

jag

Executive experience is highly valuable in any campaign for an executive office. As to McCain, one could argue that he's been in the senate so long that the exposure he's had to executive level government suffices as providing him with ample 'experience.'

To be completely honest, nothing that has been said about Palin has resonated at all. Many of the allegations against her sound like (and have been proven) fiction.

I'm not understanding why people can't just hold off on the angry language until the nation has had a chance to hear from her tonight. After all, given Obama and Biden's collective history, it's not like they are part of a 'dream ticket'...

[Franklin Richards]

We heard from her already. We also hear about her policies everyday. I think we got enough.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Gilpesh]

Many of the allegations against her sound like (and have been proven) fiction.

Someone hasn't been listening if that is the impression you get.

Firing the guy over the trooper... not fiction.

Firing a few town officials for political reasons (even a librarian)... not fiction.

Being for the bridge to nowhere (until the federal government wasn't going to pay for it)... not fiction.

Calling the Iraq War and a pipeline in Alaska, "God's Will"... not fiction.

[lazur]

We heard from her already. We also hear about her policies everyday. I think we got enough.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

You're obviously not voting for McCain, so your opinion means nothing in the outcome anyway since you're already 'decided.'

I, however, am still undecided, and I want to hear from her. Unlike you, I will not jump to conclusions based on the overabundance of MISINFORMATION being spread about her like wildfire in the media, and even on this board.

People like me are who will decide this election.

[Mr Sparkle]

That's a fact you don't have a supporting link for. :)

jag

Bush's approval rating was 80 % after sept 11.
guess that makes him great huh?:huh:

[jaguarr]

Someone hasn't been listening if that is the impression you get.

Firing the guy over the trooper... not fiction.

Firing a few town officials for political reasons (even a librarian)... not fiction.

Being for the bridge to nowhere (until the federal government wasn't going to pay for it)... not fiction.

Calling the Iraq War and a pipeline in Alaska, "God's Will"... not fiction.

Got on a plane in Texas AFTER her water broke and flew to Alaska, drove an hour and a half more and THEN had her baby...not fiction.

Former member of the Alaskan Independence Party...not proven false.

jag

[Franklin Richards]

Undecided? I don't believe it. What are you waiting for?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[lazur]

Someone hasn't been listening if that is the impression you get.

Firing the guy over the trooper... not fiction.

Really? Then please do explain the FACTUAL circumstances behind the termination. Until you can, any speculation of 'wrong-doing' associated with the termination IS fiction.

Firing a few town officials for political reasons (even a librarian)... not fiction.

Ah okay, show me evidence of wrong-doing or that she did something unethical. Oh, that's right, you can't. You'd rather jump to conclusions (guilty until proven innocent) without even knowing all of the facts.

Typical liberal behavior.

Being for the bridge to nowhere (until the federal government wasn't going to pay for it)... not fiction.

I'm not getting how this is 'scandalous.' If you know the details which make it so, feel free to drop them here...

Calling the Iraq War and a pipeline in Alaska, "God's Will"... not fiction.

Everything is God's will. That is also not fiction.

[/

[LastSunrise1981]

Lazur is the residential neo-conservative here on the forums. So he'll defend the republicans no matter what. So I wouldn't take him seriously at all when he comes in with his "intellectual" defense.

As for Sarah Palin? I have no opinion on her, McCain, or any politicians in general. What's the point of an election? All politicians are the same in their methods and none of them really do what they say they will do.

[Franklin Richards]

Really? Then please do explain the FACTUAL circumstances behind the termination. Until you can, it's fiction.



Ah okay, show me evidence of wrong-doing or that she did something unethical. Oh, that's right, you can't. You'd rather jump to conclusions (guilty until proven innocent) without even knowing all of the facts.

Typical liberal behavior.



I'm not getting how this is 'scandalous.' If you know the details which make it so, feel free to drop them here...



Everything is God's will. That is also not fiction.

[/

If everything is God's will and God's Divine Plan then why do you pray?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[The Senator]

I find it very, very hypocritical for the right to question whether Obama has 'radical' views, citing his connections with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright as the crux of their argument. Yet, Palin and her husband belonged to the Alaska Independence Party and were active members until roughly a decade ago. They belonged to a political party which advocated the secession of Alaska from the United States, a party whose founder once said "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government...and I won't be buried under their damn flag."

So not only is Palin's lack of experience a problem for her, but the radical philosophies of a political party she once belonged to puts a giant, neon exclamation point over her head. She actually was a radical. The GOP shouldn't even question Obama's connections when one of their candidates has a record of supporting radical causes outright.

[Raiden]

Undecided? I don't believe it. What are you waiting for?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I don't believe for a second that Lazur will vote for Obama/Biden. Therefore, I don't think he qualifies as "undecided" since I doubt he'd settle for a third-party candidate.

[lazur]

Got on a plane in Texas AFTER her water broke and flew to Alaska, drove an hour and a half more and THEN had her baby...not fiction.

Former member of the Alaskan Independence Party...not proven false.

jag

It's 'her body,' remember? A fetus is just a piece of meat in a mother's body until birth, right? Liberals would have had no problem with her stepping into an abortion clinic and having her full-term baby murdered with a pair of scissors, but heaven forbid she gets on a plane at full-term with that baby to give birth somewhere else.

Bizarre? Yes. Irresponsible? Probably not.

[lazur]

I find it very, very hypocritical for the right to question whether Obama has 'radical' views, citing his connections with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright as the crux of their argument. Yet, Palin and her husband belonged to the Alaska Independence Party and were active members until roughly a decade ago. They belonged to a political party which advocated the secession of Alaska from the United States, a party whose founder once said "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government...and I won't be buried under their damn flag."

So not only is Palin's lack of experience a problem for her, but the radical philosophies of a political party she once belonged to puts a giant, neon exclamation point over her head. She actually was a radical. The GOP shouldn't even question Obama's connections when one of their candidates has a record of supporting radical causes outright.

Obama is at the top of the ticket. Palin is not.

People should be comparing Obama and McCain, though I also know that it's difficult to do when one has been serving our country for nearly as long as the other one has been alive...

Fair is fair.

[Mr Sparkle]

I didn't know "bizarre" was a desirable quality in a VP.
but John Stewart is right, she does look like one of those naughty librarians in the skinemax movies....so I guess it's win win.

[EdRyder]

Lazur shes under investigation over the trooper Wooten pressure incident and firing Monegan. In this very thread theres audio of a phone call from Palins Aide proving she did pressure his office.

[jaguarr]

I agree that what she did after her water broke was crazy. Irresponsible? Not so sure. Crazy? Yes. But it's also 'her body,' remember? Liberals would have no problem with her stepping into an abortion clinic and having her full-term baby murdered with a pair of scissors, but heaven forbid she gets on a plane at full-term with that baby to give birth somewhere else.

Bizarre? Yes. Irresponsible? Probably not.

Totally irresponsible and completely bad judgment, bordering on insanity. Once the amniotic fluid leaks out, the mother and child are both very, very vulnerable to infection that could kill the both of them. Especially since this was a 44 year old woman (high risk pregnancy), a down syndrome baby (high risk), and was born prematurely (high risk) and she passed over countless NICU's in various towns to get back to Alaska. I fully support her right to do what she wants with her body (which is more quarter than she gives other women) but that was absolutely STUPID of her to do and both she and that child are lucky to be alive. This is horrible, horrible judgment and I don't want ANYONE who would exercise that kind of decision about their own life and the life of their child anywhere near an office of power in this nation.

jag

[The Senator]

Obama is at the top of the ticket. Palin is not.

People should be comparing Obama and McCain, though I also know that it's difficult to do when one has been serving our country for nearly as long as the other one has been alive...

Fair is fair.

So you believe that Palin should be in a position to lead this country even though she once supported, and may still support, the secession of Alaska from the United States? :huh:

What if she gets elected and tries to make Alaska its own separate territory again? What if she undermines McCain's presidency by leading a revolt from the Executive Branch?

[jaguarr]

I find it very, very hypocritical for the right to question whether Obama has 'radical' views, citing his connections with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright as the crux of their argument. Yet, Palin and her husband belonged to the Alaska Independence Party and were active members until roughly a decade ago. They belonged to a political party which advocated the secession of Alaska from the United States, a party whose founder once said "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government...and I won't be buried under their damn flag."

So not only is Palin's lack of experience a problem for her, but the radical philosophies of a political party she once belonged to puts a giant, neon exclamation point over her head. She actually was a radical. The GOP shouldn't even question Obama's connections when one of their candidates has a record of supporting radical causes outright.

Palin has her own pastor issues. Her pastor preaches that people who didn't vote for G.W. Bush would go to hell and that Jesus was a war god.

jag

[lazur]

I didn't know "bizarre" was a desirable quality in a VP.
but John Stewart is right, she does look like one of those naughty librarians in the skinemax movies....so I guess it's win win.

Well if you've noticed, McCain does always stand behind her to her right, and I think I've seen him peak at her backside from time to time.

Maybe the old man is senile. Or maybe he just wants something nice to look at while he runs the country. Heck, maybe she can borrow Monica's blue dress...

[lazur]

Lazur shes under investigation over the trooper Wooten pressure incident and firing Monegan. In this very thread theres audio of a phone call from Palins Aide proving she did pressure his office.

Under investigation does not = guilty. Until she is found guilty, you are all acting like a bunch of crazy goons calling for her head over something you don't even have all of the details about yet.

It's crazy.

[jaguarr]

Well if you've noticed, McCain does always stand behind her to her right, and I think I've seen him peak at her backside from time to time.

Maybe the old man is senile. Or maybe he just wants something nice to look at while he runs the country. Heck, maybe she can borrow Monica's blue dress...

:lmao:

1RN5xbWtNSU

jag

[Mr Sparkle]

Well if you've noticed, McCain does always stand behind her to her right, and I think I've seen him peak at her backside from time to time.

Maybe the old man is senile. Or maybe he just wants something nice to look at while he runs the country. Heck, maybe she can borrow Monica's blue dress...

hahahahahaha! :up: I can't argue with McCain's ability to "pimp" he came back from the war and was like "ooooh....I thought you'd get prettier, not...uh....well....bye" and traded her for a woman that still looks great for her age.
so, yeah, don't rule out a Palin/McCain affair in 09.

[lazur]

So you believe that Palin should be in a position to lead this country even though she once supported, and may still support, the secession of Alaska from the United States? :huh:

What if she gets elected and tries to make Alaska its own separate territory again? What if she undermines McCain's presidency by leading a revolt from the Executive Branch?

Do you have any quotes of HER saying anything against our country? No? Then it's no more relevant than Obama attending a radical, racist church for 20 years in which the pastor accused the U.S. of inventing aids.

Heck, maybe Palin went to the same church. Maybe she heard about the U.S. inventing aids and decided it'd be best if Alaska left the union...

Point being, not all of the facts are out YET, and you people are HAPPILY and EXCITEDLY jumping to irresponsible conclusions.

[Franklin Richards]

So I'm watching the CNN feed "Women of the GOP" and the speaker is saying that Palin cut Billions in spending in Alaska.


Really? Their budget is that big? Didn't her budget balloon by 200%?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SuBe]

So I'm watching the CNN feed "Women of the GOP" and the speaker is saying that Palin cut Billions in spending in Alaska.


Really? Their budget is that big? Didn't her budget balloon by 200%?


:thing: :doom: :thing:
I believe their budget was $13 Billion in 2007, and it was cut to $9 Billion with Palin.

[The Senator]

Do you have any quotes of HER saying anything against our country? No? Then it's no more relevant than Obama attending a radical, racist church for 20 years in which the pastor accused the U.S. of inventing aids.

Heck, maybe Palin went to the same church. Maybe she heard about the U.S. inventing aids and decided it'd be best if Alaska left the union...

Point being, not all of the facts are out YET, and you people are HAPPILY and EXCITEDLY jumping to irresponsible conclusions.

What Jeremiah Wright preached was not a part of the UCC doctrine, though.

However, Palin belonged to a political party with a clear agenda. Not because AIP sounds cool. You don't belong to a political party where its central cause is leaving the union and not agree with it.

[jaguarr]

Do you have any quotes of HER saying anything against our country? No? Then it's no more relevant than Obama attending a radical, racist church for 20 years in which the pastor accused the U.S. of inventing aids.

Heck, maybe Palin went to the same church. Maybe she heard about the U.S. inventing aids and decided it'd be best if Alaska left the union...

Point being, not all of the facts are out YET, and you people are HAPPILY and EXCITEDLY jumping to irresponsible conclusions.

The thing is, there are so many things coming out about this woman, a good chunk of them dated way before she ever became the VP nominee, that it just brings this giant air of doubt over her. And with an ethics scandal ongoing that could result in criminal charges for her and the lead investigator saying that it doesn't look good for her and that the McCain campaign is trying to suppress the results of the investigation until after the election, it looks even worse. Add in all the ancillary stuff, some of which could easily stick, and her poor judgment about her child birth that I already raised and this is not a candidate I could ever, ever support, let alone the ideological differences I have with her.

jag

[lazur]

The thing is, there are so many things coming out about this woman, a good chunk of them dated way before she ever became the VP nominee, that it just brings this giant air of doubt over her. And with an ethics scandal ongoing that could result in criminal charges for her and the lead investigator saying that it doesn't look good for her and that the McCain campaign is trying to suppress the results of the investigation until after the election, it looks even worse. Add in all the ancillary stuff, some of which could easily stick, and her poor judgment about her child birth that I already raised and this is not a candidate I could ever, ever support, let alone the ideological differences I have with her.

jag

Yeah, but Jag, the same type of information was coming about when Obama was campaigning, BEFORE he was the Presidential nominee. It had the same effect.

As to an 'ethics scandal' - it's actually an investigation. I'd hardly call it a SCANDAL until, well, it's proven to be a SCANDAL.

Your ideological differences aside (which I respect), there's nothing but speculation and conjecture surrounding this woman. All I'm suggesting is that people listen to what she has to say, let the investigation run its course, and THEN let's see where we are...

[lazur]

What Jeremiah Wright preached was not a part of the UCC doctrine, though.

However, Palin belonged to a political party with a clear agenda. Not because AIP sounds cool. You don't belong to a political party where its central cause is leaving the union and not agree with it.

And how do you KNOW this? Ever been a part of that organization? You're saying that there's absolutely NO WAY anyone could ever become involved with the UCC unless they did so with purpose and intent. But how do you KNOW that?

[Malice]

Lets not get into the Child birth issue, as we were not there...

[SuBe]

What Jeremiah Wright preached was not a part of the UCC doctrine, though.

However, Palin belonged to a political party with a clear agenda. Not because AIP sounds cool. You don't belong to a political party where its central cause is leaving the union and not agree with it.
But the Report shows no documents with Palin in attendence in these meetings.

[kane9321]

How many times are they gonna talk about "McCain being a POW"..good christ,is that all the republicans have to fall back on..oh wait it is:)

[danoyse]

It's 'her body,' remember? A fetus is just a piece of meat in a mother's body until birth, right? Liberals would have had no problem with her stepping into an abortion clinic and having her full-term baby murdered with a pair of scissors, but heaven forbid she gets on a plane at full-term with that baby to give birth somewhere else.

Bizarre? Yes. Irresponsible? Probably not.

Oh please...do not compare this to abortion. Women who choose to have an abortion are choosing to terminate during the early stages of a pregnancy. Women who are in the early stages of labor should not be taking 8-hour plane rides.

And no, most liberals would probably have a problem with a full-term pregnant woman having their baby killed in an abortion clinic.

[danoyse]

Do you have any quotes of HER saying anything against our country? No? Then it's no more relevant than Obama attending a radical, racist church for 20 years in which the pastor accused the U.S. of inventing aids.

Heck, maybe Palin went to the same church. Maybe she heard about the U.S. inventing aids and decided it'd be best if Alaska left the union...

Point being, not all of the facts are out YET, and you people are HAPPILY and EXCITEDLY jumping to irresponsible conclusions.

Do we have any quotes of Obama making Wright-esque statements against our country?

[jaguarr]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iElN_Fxq1lEsVF2Z5haqYzv2kqcQD92VDK7G0

Analysis: McCain camp plays sexism card for Palin

By RON FOURNIER – 40 minutes ago

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — John McCain's campaign could be panicking or politicking with its claim that sexism lies beneath any questions about Sarah Palin's past.

They say they're not panicked — that the Alaska governor's spot on the GOP ticket is secure — so that leaves room for just one conclusion for now: McCain's political team is playing the gender card to appeal to women, and bashing the media to solidify support among conservatives.

Hours before Palin's high-stakes address to the nation, McCain was trying to inoculate his untested and embattled running mate against criticism.

"This is part of a very clever strategy to lead the Democrats into a trap that will end up with them dumping on Gov. Palin and paying a heavy price," said GOP consultant Rich Galen.

The chorus began at dawn Wednesday when senior adviser Steve Schmidt released a statement declaring that the campaign would no longer answer questions about its background check of Palin, a little-known governor whose every blemish is being paraded before Americans.

"The vetting controversy," Schmidt said, acknowledging that McCain has trouble on his hands, "is a faux media scandal designed to destroy the first female Republican nominee for the vice president of the United States who has never been a part of the old boys' network that has come to dominate the news establishment of this country."

It was a two-fer: Schmidt both tried to rally undecided female voters behind McCain's historic pick and prodded conservative Republicans to do what they do every election cycle — blame the media.

And so, Schmidt suggested, the campaign won't explain why Palin waited until last week to tell the McCain team that her unmarried 17-year-old daughter is five months pregnant.

Or why Palin didn't submit to a face-to-face interview with the head of McCain's search team until a few days before her announcement.

Or why she's accused of improperly ordering the firing of the former public safety commissioner.

Or why she supported the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" and other pork-barrel projects before telling the nation on Saturday that she was against them.

"This nonsense," Schmidt said, "is over."

Not likely.

Palin is seeking the second most powerful job in the nation. The media views its job as scrutinizing her background, helping voters determine her readiness to serve and raising questions about the decision-making process of the man who chose her — a man, John McCain, who tells voters he has the experience and judgment to serve as president.

The scrutiny will continue, as it always does, and the betting among leading Republicans is that Palin survives. None of the revelations so far rise to the level of disqualifying. And, while she has served less than a term as governor, Democratic Sen. Barack Obama is the living embodiment of the fact that this election is less about experience than it is about change. Voters want a fresh approach, if not a fresh face, in Washington.

Inside the Republican Party, Palin delivers for McCain on two counts.

First, he needs to peel away a fraction of the independent-minded female vote trending toward Obama. Seizing on the so-called vetting controversy, McCain's campaign made a shrewd appeal to women by casting Palin as a victim of familiar circumstances.

"How do we balance our career, in her case a political career, with that of motherhood and continue to have a very fine family?" asked former U.S. Treasurer Rosario Marin, one of dozens of women dispatched to media outlets by the McCain campaign.

McCain's wife, Cindy, said she was insulted by suggestions that the demands of caring for five children makes Palin a poor choice. "These questions would not be asked if she were a man," she said.

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani toted his feminist talking points around to no fewer than five morning TV interviews.

"The scrutiny you are giving her is so darn unfair. It is really indecent," he told MSNBC's morning crew. "She is being asked questions like, can you, as a mother ... be vice president? Whoever asked a man?"

And so he went, from one TV camera to the next.

CBS: "Where are the feminists?"

ABC: "Give the woman a chance ..."

Fox News: "I'm at the point of (being) really angry."

And that's the point. McCain wants conservative voters, many of whom were lukewarm toward his candidacy, whipped into high dungeon in defense of Palin, angry at the media and the unnamed liberal elites who are denounced by most every convention speaker.

Unfortunately for Democrats, they can't protest too much over McCain's use of the gender card — not after the race between Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton stirred sex and racial tensions.

It was regrettable that Democrats backing a black man and white woman "say things that veer off into the personal," Clinton said at the time. "We ought to keep this on issues."

Not likely.

I'm glad to see this nonsense called out for what it is. The part in bold made me laugh my ass off. Is Galen some sort of deranged Bond villain who TELLS Bond how he's going to kill him with his elaborate plot, giving Bond all the information he needs to save himself and the world? :funny:

jag

[jaguarr]

Yeah, but Jag, the same type of information was coming about when Obama was campaigning, BEFORE he was the Presidential nominee. It had the same effect.

As to an 'ethics scandal' - it's actually an investigation. I'd hardly call it a SCANDAL until, well, it's proven to be a SCANDAL.

Your ideological differences aside (which I respect), there's nothing but speculation and conjecture surrounding this woman. All I'm suggesting is that people listen to what she has to say, let the investigation run its course, and THEN let's see where we are...

Ehhh...yeah, I'm seeing a greater level of severity and abuse of power in the rumors surrounding Palin than ever were attached to the things that were spoken of regarding Obama. And Obama wasn't under investigation for ethics violations. And she still made that idiotic trek from Texas to Alaska after her water broke. She's not worth the consideration and I'm stunned McCain chose her. She's brought nothing but negative scrutiny to his campaign and caused a lot of people to question his judgment. Brilliant. :dry:

jag

[Malice]

McCain's wife, Cindy, said she was insulted by suggestions that the demands of caring for five children makes Palin a poor choice. "These questions would not be asked if she were a man," she said.

That one pisses me off

[Malice]

My wife...who is not very political heard this and was getting worked up...

If it got her worked up....imagine all the others.

[Marx]

McCain's wife, Cindy, said she was insulted by suggestions that the demands of caring for five children makes Palin a poor choice. "These questions would not be asked if she were a man," she said.

That one pisses me off

People are saying that Palin is a poor choice because of her 'experience' level. The fact that she has five children isn't the reason. That said, it is not wrong or unfair to question how she will be able to do it.

Cindy is losing more and more ground in my eyes...

[SuBe]

My wife...who is not very political heard this and was getting worked up...

If it got her worked up....imagine all the others.
From listening to Talk Radio today, there are plenty of mothers out there pissed at the Democrats going on about that.

[Franklin Richards]

Don't Conservatives believe that the woman is the house frau and should take care of the children while the man goes out and brings home the bacon? I mean isn't that the conservative ideology?

I mean they can work and all as long as it doesn't interfere with having dinner on the table and the laundry done.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SuBe]

People are saying that Palin is a poor choice because of her 'experience' level. The fact that she has five children isn't the reason. That said, it is not wrong or unfair to question how she will be able to do it.

Cindy is losing more and more ground in my eyes...
I don't think they were trying to get your vote anyway, lib:cwink:

[Malice]

People are saying that Palin is a poor choice because of her 'experience' level. The fact that she has five children isn't the reason. That said, it is not wrong or unfair to question how she will be able to do it.

Cindy is losing more and more ground in my eyes...

What do you mean How?
There is a father there....
Anyone entering the White House knows of some sacrifices....

Dad will have to handle some of the issues Mom might have...
Simple as that.

[SuBe]

Don't Conservatives believe that the woman is the house frau and should take care of the children while the man goes out and brings home the bacon? I mean isn't that the conservative ideology?

I mean they can work and all as long as it doesn't interfere with having dinner on the table and the laundry done.


:thing: :doom: :thing:
Umm, no. Most Conservative Families have both the Mother and Father working and raising their families. Conservatives aren't knuckle draggers living in caves, Frank.

[Marx]

What do you mean How?
There is a father there....
Anyone entering the White House knows of some sacrifices....

Dad will have to handle some of the issues Mom might have...
Simple as that.

The Democrats are not saying that she is a bad choice because she has five kids. That is ridiculous to even imply. The Palin detracters are saying she is a bad choice because of her 'experience' level. The media are the ones attacking her for her parenting. And even at that, no one is saying she shouldn't be considered BECAUSE of the children, people are questioning HOW she will do it. And that is a reasonable question to ask. It has nothing to do with 'not being the right choice because she has five kids.' That's bull.

[Franklin Richards]

Well I live in Texas, and I'm here to tell you that THAT is the Conservative Ideology. The man is the "man" of the house and women should follow their lead. It says so in the Bible. That's what the Evangelicals believe and most hardline rightists.

I don't believe it, I'm just telling you what I know is FACT.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jaguarr]

From listening to Talk Radio today, there are plenty of mothers out there pissed at the Democrats going on about that.

The Democrats aren't the ones "going on" about that. It's the media. WTF?

Anyone who buys into McCain's gender card B.S. is sad. She's being called into question as a candidate based on her record and the scandals and baggage she brings to the table. She'd be called out for these same damn things if she was a man. The motherhood thing is a bit over the line, but hey...even I have to wonder about that one to a certain extent as I have expressed before; her trek from Texas to Alaska AFTER her water broke is a serious mark on her judgment no matter how you look at it. All this "You can't ask her that! She's a woman!" nonsense is the new "I was a P.O.W.! You can't ask me that!" that McCain's become famous for lately. It's misdirection. Don't be fooled by it. Listen to the actual question and what the actual answer is and I think you'll find that 9 times out of 10 it's got nothing whatsoever to do with her gender.

jag

[jaguarr]

What do you mean How?
There is a father there....
Anyone entering the White House knows of some sacrifices....

Dad will have to handle some of the issues Mom might have...
Simple as that.

Is Todd going to start breastfeeding their infant?

jag

[lazur]

McCain's wife, Cindy, said she was insulted by suggestions that the demands of caring for five children makes Palin a poor choice. "These questions would not be asked if she were a man," she said.

That one pisses me off

That it was even brought up in the FIRST place is something I find offensive. What, exactly, is being implied here, that politicians can't be effective politicians if they have kids at home?

And Cindy does have a point. When was the last time someone said the same thing about a male politician? Obama has two young daughters. Does that mean he's unfit to be President because his kids need him more?

It's a silly subject that was BOUND to piss off women just by raising it as an issue.

[Marx]

The Democrats aren't the ones "going on" about that. It's the media. WTF?

Anyone who buys into McCain's gender card B.S. is sad. She's being called into question as a candidate based on her record and the scandals and baggage she brings to the table. She'd be called out for these same damn things if she was a man. The motherhood thing is a bit over the line, but hey...even I have to wonder about that one to a certain extent as I have expressed before; her trek from Texas to Alaska AFTER her water broke is a serious mark on her judgment no matter how you look at it. All this "You can't ask her that! She's a woman!" nonsense is the new "I was a P.O.W.! You can't ask me that!" that McCain's become famous for lately. It's misdirection. Don't be fooled by it. Listen to the actual question and what the actual answer is and I think you'll find that 9 times out of 10 it's got nothing whatsoever to do with her gender.

jag

Exactly my point Jag. All this gender/mother card crap is just that - crap. I can't believe that anyone would buy into it.

[lazur]

The Democrats are not saying that she is a bad choice because she has five kids. That is ridiculous to even imply. The Palin detracters are saying she is a bad choice because of her 'experience' level. The media are the ones attacking her for her parenting. And even at that, no one is saying she shouldn't be considered BECAUSE of the children, people are questioning HOW she will do it. And that is a reasonable question to ask. It has nothing to do with 'not being the right choice because she has five kids.' That's bull.

The number of kids is irrelevant. If they are going to ask that question about Palin, then someone needs to ask the same question about Obama. Two of Palin's kids are 17 and 19 (adults). The other three are young. Which means she has ONE more kid at home than Obama...

[Superman]

Well, I'm sure they'd spin it as her removing herself to take care of her pregnant daughter or newborn son or something along those lines. Most would see through that though.

Palin, in my opinion, has ended this campaign. There is no way for McCain to recover, unless something like Obama being a black panther who called for the violent over throw of the government comes out (and what are the odds of that?). The only way for McCain to recover is a much greater Obama scandal. Otherwise, he's done. Hell...I've been Obama's biggest critic yet I am now tempted to vote for him (or perhaps more accurately, vote Biden for vice-president, cause God damn, I do like Joe Biden)...because voting third party or for McCain would be aiding a man who picked a ****ing secessionist as his running mate take office. I mean...the sheer stupidity...how can I in good conscience support that?
:shock

[Marx]

The number of kids is irrelevant. If they are going to ask that question about Palin, then someone needs to ask the same question about Obama. Two of Palin's kids are 17 and 19 (adults). The other three are young. Which means she has ONE more kid at home than Obama...

Did you read what I said Lazur? No one is saying that 'she's a bad choice because she has ____ number of kids'! People are saying she is a bad choice because of her 'experience' and scandals.

It's pathetic that I'm even having to argue about this. Campaign spin does crazy things! :whatever:

[Franklin Richards]

But Obama is a man. She is a mom. It's the mom's job. Don't start talking that lesbo language. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and both of them have their roles. That's the way God wants it.


Hurts don't it?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[terry78]

If Matt votes for the Obama-Biden ticket, I honestly believe the time/space continuum will implode on itself and we will all fly through time a la 2001.

[jaguarr]

Exactly my point Jag. All this gender/mother card crap is just that - crap. I can't believe that anyone would buy into it.

The Republicans are the ones that keep bringing it up, to be honest. Hard questions about her record or past come up? The RNC spokeswhores immediately pop up saying "You're just picking on her because she's a WOMAN you heartless a-holes!" Questions come up about the vetting process? "You're just picking on her because she's a WOMAN you heartless a-holes!" Seriously, they've been playing that card for several days now and I have yet to hear it used properly once other than the outstanding question of whether she'd be asked questions about her ability to raise her kids AND be VP if she was a man, which came from the media but the RNC spokeswhores immediately jumped on and said "The Democrats made the media ask that question because they're heartless a-holes and they're picking on her because she's a WOMAN!!!!"

WTF? The only people who keep bringing up the fact that she's a woman are the RNC, it almost feels like. It's being used as a crutch to not have to answer questions that have nothing to do with her gender whatsoever, and also is being used as an emotional hot-button trigger to paint Palin as the victim when she absolutely is not. Hell, Malice and his wife fell for that hook, line and sinker. It's manipulation from the RNC, plain and simple. Yes, the questions about her ability to be a mother AND a VP are a bit over the line, but they are natural questions considering she has an infant and something most parents are wondering about. The RNC just attacks everyone for even thinking it and trying to make it sound like those are questions that absolutely must not be asked rather than preparing a sound statement to answer those questions and quell people's fears. The fact that they haven't done so makes me wonder if they have figured out how to balance those things at all, to be quite honest.

jag

[jaguarr]

The number of kids is irrelevant. If they are going to ask that question about Palin, then someone needs to ask the same question about Obama. Two of Palin's kids are 17 and 19 (adults). The other three are young. Which means she has ONE more kid at home than Obama...

She has an infant that is still breast-feeding. Entirely different circumstances.

jag

[SuBe]

But Obama is a man. She is a mom. It's the mom's job. Don't start talking that lesbo language. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman and both of them have their roles. That's the way God wants it.


Hurts don't it?


:thing: :doom: :thing:
What are you saying? Not all Conservatives or those on the Right think that way, Do we need to start Generalizing about the Marxist, Comrade Obama?

[lazur]

Did you read what I said Lazur? No one is saying that 'she's a bad choice because she has ____ number of kids'! People are saying she is a bad choice because of her 'experience' and scandals.

Her experience? We've already established that her experience is about as valuable as Obama's experience. They both have experience in different ways (she as a political executive, he as a political legislator), but Obama is the one on the TOP OF THE TICKET.

And WHAT scandals are you talking about? Has anything been proven to be a SCANDAL yet? No, there's an investigation going on. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? Something can't be a SCANDAL until they find WRONG DOING, and so far there's none.

It's pathetic that I'm even having to argue about this. Campaign spin does crazy things! :whatever:

Agreed. The whole thing is nuts.

[SuBe]

She has an infant that is still breast-feeding. Entirely different circumstances.

jag
You should know this Jaggy, they make breast pumps.

[lazur]

She has an infant that is still breast-feeding. Entirely different circumstances.

jag

Baby formula for the win.

[jaguarr]

You should know this Jaggy, they make breast pumps.

You think they'll work on Todd?

jag

[Malice]

Well I live in Texas, and I'm here to tell you that THAT is the Conservative Ideology. The man is the "man" of the house and women should follow their lead. It says so in the Bible. That's what the Evangelicals believe and most hardline rightists.

I don't believe it, I'm just telling you what I know is FACT.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I live in Houston...and honestly...
I could care less.

I told my wife, if she ever made alot of money, I would retire, and be "mr mom"
I have no problem with that.

I think most people dont, but of course you have guys with pride, being the bread winner...

[jaguarr]

Baby formula for the win.

Exactamundo, Potsy. But instead of mapping things out to say "Look, we know there are a lot of questions about how we're going to manage this, so here's how we'll do it", they just attack people for even asking the question. WTF?

jag