The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread)

[SuBe]

You think they'll work on Todd?

jag
Biology, 101. Breast Pump=Mommy, Baby Feeder=Daddy. It's in a book, somewhere.

[Franklin Richards]

What are you saying? Not all Conservatives or those on the Right think that way, Do we need to start Generalizing about the Marxist, Comrade Obama?

You can't have it both ways. If you are a social conservative then a woman's role is pretty well defined. Feminists are reviled. Equal Pay legislation is condemned. The Bible is Law! Men are the leaders and women are needed to breast feed.

And yes, we liberals have quite a few ideas that are Marxist. I've got no problem with that.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[EdRyder]

You cant give a infant with Down Syndrome formula.They need breast milk.

[Malice]

You cant give a infant with Down Syndrome formula.They need breast milk.

Um....is that fact?

[Franklin Richards]

I live in Houston...and honestly...
I could care less.

I told my wife, if she ever made alot of money, I would retire, and be "mr mom"
I have no problem with that.

I think most people dont, but of course you have guys with pride, being the bread winner...

I don't think it's most. You and I both see these men everyday. And the women who put up with it.

It's sick.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[EdRyder]

Um....is that fact?

Yup

[Marx]

Her experience? We've already established that her experience is about as valuable as Obama's experience. They both have experience in different ways (she as a political executive, he as a political legislator), but Obama is the one on the TOP OF THE TICKET.

And WHAT scandals are you talking about? Has anything been proven to be a SCANDAL yet? No, there's an investigation going on. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? Something can't be a SCANDAL until they find WRONG DOING, and so far there's none.

I didn't bring up the 'experience' argument to dive into that yet again. I think we can all agree that experience comes in different ways. All that I am saying, and that Jag is saying, is that people think that she is a bad choice because of her 'experience,' not the fact that she has ____ number of children as McCain and company want you to believe.




Agreed. The whole thing is nuts.

Stop the presses! Note the time! Lazur and I completely agree on something. :oldrazz:

[jaguarr]

Biology, 101. Breast Pump=Mommy, Baby Feeder=Daddy. It's in a book, somewhere.

Oh, gonna be snarky, eh? Breast milk has some very specific care and handling procedures once it's been pumped to ensure that it remains usable for the baby. Not entirely unmanageable to pump and then freeze it and ship it to wherever the baby is at. Expensive, but doable. So, back to my other question, then: Why haven't they just said "Look, we know people are concerned about this so these are things we are doing to ensure this baby gets everything it needs in the way of love and care"? It'd shut everyone up about it. But they perpetuate it by saying "You can't talk about this, you misogynistic bastards!" which, of course, just makes people talk about it more. That says to me they're exploiting it for more media coverage and that's kind of despicable.

jag

[jaguarr]

You cant give a infant with Down Syndrome formula.They need breast milk.

Sorry, but that's not true.

jag

[Malice]

Yup

I dont think so.
http://www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/DSA_NewParents.aspx#Feeding

[jaguarr]

I didn't bring up the 'experience' argument to dive into that yet again. I think we can all agree that experience comes in different ways. All that I am saying, and that Jag is saying, is that people think that she is a bad choice because of her 'experience,' not the fact that she has ____ number of children as McCain and company want you to believe.


Personally, I think she's a bad choice because of her JUDGMENT as much as or more than anything else.

jag

[SuBe]

You can't have it both ways. If you are a social conservative then a woman's role is pretty well defined. Feminists are reviled. Equal Pay legislation is condemned. The Bible is Law! Men are the leaders and women are needed to breast feed.

And yes, we liberals have quite a few ideas that are Marxist. I've got no problem with that.

:thing: :doom: :thing:
I'm a Conservative, and I don't give 2 ****s what the Bible says, and I do have a problem with Marxism, the experiment didn't work.

[Marx]

Personally, I think she's a bad choice because of her JUDGMENT as much as or more than anything else.

jag

Yeah well, that too. :cwink:

[jaguarr]

I'm a Conservative, and I don't give 2 ****s what the Bible says, and I do have a problem with Marxism, the experiment didn't work.

I feel the same way about neo-conservatism. It didn't work. Next.

jag

[Franklin Richards]

I'm a Conservative, and I don't give 2 ****s what the Bible says, and I do have a problem with Marxism, the experiment didn't work.

Bible = Conservative.


You must be a fiscal conservative that voted for Nader / Perot.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[lazur]

I didn't bring up the 'experience' argument to dive into that yet again. I think we can all agree that experience comes in different ways. All that I am saying, and that Jag is saying, is that people think that she is a bad choice because of her 'experience,' not the fact that she has ____ number of children as McCain and company want you to believe.

Yeah but you're bringing up her experience as a legitimate concern, which I agree with. But you fail to mention also that just as many people have concerns over Obama's experience, and those concerns are just as legitimate, and he's at the top of the ticket.

As things are, you can't raise the experience of Palin as an issue, and then ignore Obama's own lack of experience, and expect to come across as reasonable. I'm not saying you aren't reasonable, but c'mon, Obama is JUST AS GREEN as she is (more so if you look only at total years in politics).

Stop the presses! Note the time! Lazur and I completely agree on something. :oldrazz:

It's bound to happen occasionally. :)

[SuBe]

I feel the same way about neo-conservatism. It didn't work. Next.

jag
Fair enough. I'm Libertarian anyway. :word:

[Superman]

She is a Governor....and a Highly successful one....leave the motherhood aspect out of it.
I tell you, I think that will so piss off so many people it might backfire.

I have personally talked to 5 friends that do NOT think the same politically as me and they are absolutely pissed....4 women and 1 man. I think that sort of attack is going to backfire...
Just my 2 cents.

What makes her a "Highly Successful Governor"? What has she done in the year and a half that she has been Governor of Alaska that makes her a "Highly Successful Governor" in your eyes?

Can you list the things she's done please? And please don't come back with "Well Obama has less experience....blah blah blah". We ain't talking about Obama here, We are talking about Palin and HER experience. I'm not saying she doesn't have the experience, She may have it, I just wish somebody, Anybody, Would say what that experience is because so far all i've heard from McCain suporters is how Obama has less. They never answer the question of what exactly is the experience that she has so much of. :(



I will agree with you on the fact that if people keep going on about this baby stuff it's going to backfire on the Dems and she is going to get sympathy votes because"The big bad liberal media is picking on the little lady".:whatever::csad:You know, I'll take answers to this question from any McCain supporter. Malice isn't the only McCain supporter out there. I'd really like to hear what you guys think makes her experienced enough to be VP without bringing Obama into it.

Again, I'm not saying she isn't experienced, I just don't know what that experience is.:csad:

[Franklin Richards]

Fair enough. I'm Libertarian anyway. :word:

Heh. Thought so. :word:


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Hole Shot]

Please refrain from sarcastic comments towards other posters, Hole Shot.


Is this 4 serious?

[Marx]

Yeah but you're bringing up her experience as a legitimate concern, which I agree with. But you fail to mention also that just as many people have concerns over Obama's experience, and those concerns are just as legitimate, and he's at the top of the ticket.

As things are, you can't raise the experience of Palin as an issue, and then ignore Obama's own lack of experience, and expect to come across as reasonable. I'm not saying you aren't reasonable, but c'mon, Obama is JUST AS GREEN as she is (more so if you look only at total years in politics).


And if you have paid attention to anything that I have ever said on the HYPE, you would know that I have been one of Obama's biggest critics. What I am trying to get through to you on is this notion that everyone is attacking Palin because she has ____ number of kids. It's complete and utter bull...but it's the line that McCain and company are trying to play.



It's bound to happen occasionally. :)

That's true. :cwink:

[EdRyder]

I dont think so.
http://www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/DSA_NewParents.aspx#Feeding

Breastfeeding has many benefits for all babies. Some are especially important for babies with Down's syndrome.
Close body contact - this helps you bond to your baby and provides your baby with important sensory stimulation.
Less infections - Breast milk has antibodies that help your baby fight the infections that babies with Down's syndrome often pick up more easily than other babies.
Less constipation - many babies with Down's syndrome become constipated probably due to their low muscle tone which can make their bowels sluggish. Babies who are breast fed generally don't get constipated.
Best nutrition - breast milk provides the best possible nutrition.


Did you even bother to read that Malice? Didnt say one word about formula... I made that statement based on two mothers of children with down syndrome who were told specifically not to use formula.

[jaguarr]

Breastfeeding has many benefits for all babies. Some are especially important for babies with Down's syndrome.
Close body contact - this helps you bond to your baby and provides your baby with important sensory stimulation.
Less infections - Breast milk has antibodies that help your baby fight the infections that babies with Down's syndrome often pick up more easily than other babies.
Less constipation - many babies with Down's syndrome become constipated probably due to their low muscle tone which can make their bowels sluggish. Babies who are breast fed generally don't get constipated.
Best nutrition - breast milk provides the best possible nutrition.


Did you even bother to read that Malice? Didnt say one word about formula... I made that statement based on two mothers of children with down syndrome who were told specifically not to use formula.

It's ALWAYS preferable to give a baby breast milk whenever it's possible, regardless of whether they are a special needs baby or not. It's better for them nutritionally and encourages bonding between the mother and the baby when breastfeeding. But that's different than saying you CAN'T give formula to a Downs Syndrome infant. Some mothers just can't get the milk production needed to feed their baby. Especially in older mothers. This was true for my wife and, trust me when I say, formula will constipate ANY baby as my son has had plenty of that and he doesn't have Downs Syndrome. :o

jag

[Malice]

Breastfeeding has many benefits for all babies. Some are especially important for babies with Down's syndrome.
Close body contact - this helps you bond to your baby and provides your baby with important sensory stimulation.
Less infections - Breast milk has antibodies that help your baby fight the infections that babies with Down's syndrome often pick up more easily than other babies.
Less constipation - many babies with Down's syndrome become constipated probably due to their low muscle tone which can make their bowels sluggish. Babies who are breast fed generally don't get constipated.
Best nutrition - breast milk provides the best possible nutrition.


Did you even bother to read that Malice? Didnt say one word about formula... I made that statement based on two mothers of children with down syndrome who were told specifically not to use formula.

There is a difference.
You simply stated NO...they CANT feed from a bottle
having a baby breast feed because its a benefit is a different story...

I was assuming there was a fundamental MEDICAL need for the breastfeeding.
So that I can absolutely understand...just misunderstanding from what I was interpretting you meant.

:)

[Malice]

It's ALWAYS preferable to give a baby breast milk whenever it's possible, regardless of whether they are a special needs baby or not. It's better for them nutritionally and encourages bonding between the mother and the baby when breastfeeding. But that's different than saying you CAN'T give formula to a Downs Syndrome infant. Some mothers just can't get the milk production needed to feed their baby. Especially in older mothers. This was true for my wife and, trust me when I say, formula will constipate ANY baby as my son has had plenty of that and he doesn't have Downs Syndrome. :o

jag

Exactly...benefitial is different then required..that was my point

[Malice]

You know, I'll take answers to this question from any McCain supporter. Malice isn't the only McCain supporter out there. I'd really like to hear what you guys think makes her experienced enough to be VP without bringing Obama into it.

Again, I'm not saying she isn't experienced, I just don't know what that experience is.:csad:

I wont get into it, because as you guys have seen, I really suck as a debater, and tend to forget the points I try to prove..

I look at it this way, unless its proven she was absolutely inept, (which is hard to say when you have a 89% approval rating) I think she is ok.

If she shows up as being a bad speaker and is a complete moron, that will also make changes in my mind.... I just dont know enough about her..

I originally heard good things, but then of course, biased media was leaning conservative will pain her in a different light..

We shall see.

[Hobodeluxe]

Bwahaha GOP pundits caught on a live mic (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/212920.php) giving their honest opinions on the race and Palin's pick. Gee, what they get paid to say and how they really feel seem to be two totally separate things. whodahthunkit.

Oh and Obama will be on Bill O'Reilly's show tonight. Might be entertaining.

[EdRyder]

There is a difference.
You simply stated NO...they CANT feed from a bottle
having a baby breast feed because its a benefit is a different story...

I was assuming there was a fundamental MEDICAL need for the breastfeeding.
So that I can absolutely understand...just misunderstanding from what I was interpretting you meant.

:)

No I didnt. I said you cant give a baby formula they need breastmilk.
One more time :You cant give a down syndrome baby formula.
Cant

[Malice]

From what I have heard though, the other people McCain were courting, they are PISSED Palin was picked, but its too late now...lets move on

[Marx]

From what I have heard though, the other people McCain were courting, they are PISSED Palin was picked, but its too late now...lets move on

Which is why I cannot wait to see Romney's speech at the convention! :oldrazz:

[EdRyder]

It's ALWAYS preferable to give a baby breast milk whenever it's possible, regardless of whether they are a special needs baby or not. It's better for them nutritionally and encourages bonding between the mother and the baby when breastfeeding. But that's different than saying you CAN'T give formula to a Downs Syndrome infant. Some mothers just can't get the milk production needed to feed their baby. Especially in older mothers. This was true for my wife and, trust me when I say, formula will constipate ANY baby as my son has had plenty of that and he doesn't have Downs Syndrome. :o

jag


You!!!:cmad: :oldrazz:
Im gonna go out on a limb here.If you can provide some proof that its acceptable to give a down syndrome infant formula.I will videotape myself eating a shoe, load it on youtube, and post it here on the hype.

[Malice]

Which is why I cannot wait to see Romney's speech at the convention! :oldrazz:

Oh he will fall in line and give the Hurray....
I dont think he will say...VOTE FOR OBAMA! before he gets cut off....
(I was making that joke about Hillary the other night to my wife)

Romney thinks McCain is better than Obama....I gaurentee you that.

[jaguarr]

Bwahaha GOP pundits caught on a live mic (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/212920.php) giving their honest opinions on the race and Palin's pick. Gee, what they get paid to say and how they really feel seem to be two totally separate things. whodahthunkit.

Oh and Obama will be on Bill O'Reilly's show tonight. Might be entertaining.

Ouch! I think McCain's driven a bigger wedge into his own party than he really realizes with Palin on the ticket.

And Obama will eat O'Reilly alive on camera tomorrow night, not tonight. :o

jag

[lazur]

No I didnt. I said you cant give a baby formula they need breastmilk.
One more time :You cant give a down syndrome baby formula.
Cant

That is a good point. But they also have this nifty modern device called a ... breast pump. (It's okay, you can giggle.)

I still can't even believe that Hypsters even remotely consider the number of kids she has to be an issue. If it's not an issue, then quit talking about it. She's not the first major political candidate to have kids at home. By continuing to raise it as an issue, all it does is give ammo to those who might want to lean on the 'sexist' argument.

[Malice]

Ryder...I am a moron...forget our argument...I misread your statement as SECOND time.
I conceed...just to stop the line of thoughts...

Anyways, I am headed home

[danoyse]

McCain's wife, Cindy, said she was insulted by suggestions that the demands of caring for five children makes Palin a poor choice. "These questions would not be asked if she were a man," she said.

That one pisses me off

Cindy McCain is also saying that Palin has great foreign policy experience because Alaska happens to be right next to Russia. :whatever:

And it's not the big, bad Democrats creating this nonsense about her kids. Another forum I read is plenty conservative, and many of them are questioning the same thing.

It's not a sexist question. How does a party who's current nominee was the result of a teenage pregancy, who was nearly defeated by a woman who raised her own child while living in the White House for 8 years possibly bring this into account.

The people I've seen really raise this question the most have been moms. All working moms who balance career and family. They know how hard it is...they wonder how much harder it will be with such an important position (not to mention one she will obviously have to be learning along the way), and even more so with a special needs infant...and teenage daughter with a baby on the way.

It's an absolutely valid question. The Republicans think they can just scream SEXIST and not have to answer it.

[lazur]

Ouch! I think McCain's driven a bigger wedge into his own party than he really realizes with Palin on the ticket.

And Obama will eat O'Reilly alive on camera tomorrow night, not tonight. :o

jag

I understand that you support Obama and all that, but WHAT in the great wide world has given you any impression that the man can debate? We haven't seen him in a debate. All we've seen him do is stand in front of a crowd and give pie in the sky speeches that were riddled with inaccuracies and fluff.

As much as I myself do not like O'Reilly sometimes, he does ask tough questions and debating IS his profession... And regardless of what side of the political spectrum you fall on, I'd hope ALL OF US would WANT *any* candidate for President to be grilled up one side and down the other.

Who knows, Obama may take Bill to task. But based on what I've seen so far? VERY highly doubtful. Though I do commend him for finally manning up and doing the right thing...

[Superman]

I wont get into it, because as you guys have seen, I really suck as a debater, and tend to forget the points I try to prove..I know the feeling. I do the same thing when debating.:csad:

That's cool.


Anyone else though?

[Franklin Richards]

So Obama will go on O'Reilly and McCain won't go on Larry King?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[EdRyder]

That is a good point. But they also have this nifty modern device called a ... breast pump. (It's okay, you can giggle.)



Or they can hire wet nurse staff at the White House.Be useful when Dubya pops in for a suckle.

[Marx]

I understand that you support Obama and all that, but WHAT in the great wide world has given you any impression that the man can debate? We haven't seen him in a debate. All we've seen him do is stand in front of a crowd and give pie in the sky speeches that were riddled with inaccuracies and fluff.

As much as I myself do not like O'Reilly sometimes, he does ask tough questions and debating IS his profession... And regardless of what side of the political spectrum you fall on, I'd hope ALL OF US would WANT *any* candidate for President to be grilled up one side and down the other.

Who knows, Obama may take Bill to task. But based on what I've seen so far? VERY highly doubtful. Though I do commend him for finally manning up and doing the right thing...

What??? Did you not watch the Democratic primaries? :huh:

[jaguarr]

You!!!:cmad: :oldrazz:
Im gonna go out on a limb here.If you can provide some proof that its acceptable to give a down syndrome infant formula.I will videotape myself eating a shoe, load it on youtube, and post it here on the hype.

I was just gonna drop it but now I want to watch you eat a shoe, so:

http://einstein-syndrome.com/health_medical/feeding_an_infant/

http://www.ds-health.com/faq.htm (see the very last question)

http://www.about-down-syndrome.com/your-baby-with-down-syndrome.html

Here's a blog of a woman with a DS baby who had to ultimately switch to formula: http://aliceiscanadian.blogspot.com/2006/10/breastfeeding-my-baby-with-down.html


For it being such a ginormous CAN'T per your reference, there sure do seem to be a whole lot of parents giving their Down Syndrome baby formula. Is it as ideal as breastmilk? No. Of course not. It's more ideal for any baby to get breastmilk. But not all women are able to make milk or produce enough. I'm sure that's happened many times to mothers of DS babies throughout history. Did you think the babies just starved to death? No, they gave them formula.

Now, what sort of shoe are you going to be eating? Can I make a request or do we have to go with what you have on hand?

jag

[jaguarr]

What??? Did you not watch the Democratic primaries? :huh:

He held his own pretty well against Hillary and Hillary is light years beyond John McCain in debate skills. Hillary is light years beyond the majority of the world in debate skills for that matter.

jag

[Marx]

He held his own pretty well against Hillary and Hillary is light years beyond John McCain in debate skills. Hillary is light years beyond the majority of the world in debate skills for that matter.

jag

He did. I'm just really confused by Lazur claiming that Obama hasn't been in a debate... :huh:

[jaguarr]

I understand that you support Obama and all that, but WHAT in the great wide world has given you any impression that the man can debate? We haven't seen him in a debate. All we've seen him do is stand in front of a crowd and give pie in the sky speeches that were riddled with inaccuracies and fluff.

Are you serious? He held his own against Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primaries. Hillary is easily one of the best debaters in the world.


As much as I myself do not like O'Reilly sometimes, he does ask tough questions and debating IS his profession... And regardless of what side of the political spectrum you fall on, I'd hope ALL OF US would WANT *any* candidate for President to be grilled up one side and down the other.

O'Reilly doesn't debate. He yells over the top of people and cuts off their mics when he's not "winning". That's not debating.


Who knows, Obama may take Bill to task. But based on what I've seen so far? VERY highly doubtful. Though I do commend him for finally manning up and doing the right thing...

Tomorrow night should be interesting. :)

jag

[lazur]

He did. I'm just really confused by Lazur claiming that Obama hasn't been in a debate... :huh:

It's a far different 'debate' when you're debating with people who oppose you ideologically. At the end of the day, Hillary and Obama agree on virtually everything.

[Franklin Richards]

Come on, Lazur! Didn't you watch the Civil War that was going on in the Democratic Party?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Gilpesh]

Really? Then please do explain the FACTUAL circumstances behind the termination. Until you can, any speculation of 'wrong-doing' associated with the termination IS fiction.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5702697&page=1

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/palin_probe_could_mean_election.php

Ah okay, show me evidence of wrong-doing or that she did something unethical. Oh, that's right, you can't. You'd rather jump to conclusions (guilty until proven innocent) without even knowing all of the facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palin-almost-recalled-as_b_122769.html

Typical liberal behavior.

Why is it that he can assume I'm a liberal and call me such... but I can't call him an idiot?

I'm not getting how this is 'scandalous.' If you know the details which make it so, feel free to drop them here...

She lied about her opposition in her acceptance speech... the first thing she did... was lie.

F2zrJuBDc-8

Oh and even if it is Olbermann... they have her statements... things SHE has SAID about it.

Everything is God's will. That is also not fiction.

Religion shouldn't dictate policy.

[danoyse]

It's a far different 'debate' when you're debating with people who oppose you ideologically. At the end of the day, Hillary and Obama agree on virtually everything.

It's not all that different, they were all debating each other for the same job.

[danoyse]

Why is it that he can assume I'm a liberal and call me such... but I can't call him an idiot?


Because there's no name-calling allowed here.

Let's not anyone use "liberal" or "conservative" as a way of labelling or insulting other posters.

[lazur]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5702697&page=1

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/palin_probe_could_mean_election.php



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palin-almost-recalled-as_b_122769.html

All of the links you provided are media stories or blogs. Until the investigation PROVES wrong-doing, I'm keeping an open mind.

Why is it that he can assume I'm a liberal and call me such... but I can't call him an idiot?

Because 'liberal' isn't a bad or insulting word.

She lied about her opposition in her acceptance speech... the first thing she did... was lie.

Obama lied when he said he'd cut taxes on 95% of the U.S. population since, well, it's not possible. Where are your complaints about that?

[Gilpesh]

Because there's no name-calling allowed here.

Let's not anyone use "liberal" or "conservative" as a way of labelling or insulting other posters.

Then tell him that. :whatever:

[Gilpesh]

All of the links you provided are media stories or blogs. Until the investigation PROVES wrong-doing, I'm keeping an open mind.

Did you even watch the clip... where it shows what Palin SAID. Her words... where she praises the bridge. Also... in those links that you just shrug off, it says that McCain's people are purposefully delaying the investigation.

Keep an 'open' mind as long as you want but it's starting to look more like denial.

Because 'liberal' isn't a bad or insulting word.

When you are using to describe someone who disagrees with you... that you have no idea what they actually subscribe to... it is bad and insulting.

Obama lied when he said he'd cut taxes on 95% of the U.S. population since, well, it's not possible. Where are your complaints about that?

Oh... wait... Sorry. I didn't know this was the Obama thread. I'll just go over to the Palin thread to talk about it. :whatever:

[Superman]

Because 'liberal' isn't a bad or insulting wordThe way you use it it is.

Then again I do the same thing with "Conservative".:o

[danoyse]

Then tell him that. :whatever:

I'm telling everyone that. You can disagree all you want, but no one is to start with the "typical liberal" or a "typical conservative" remarks towards each other.

[jaguarr]

Because 'liberal' isn't a bad or insulting word.


The way you use it it is.

Then again I do the same thing with "Conservative".:o

At least you aren't calling each other "Fairtaxers", 'cuz that'd be over the line. :o

jag

[EdRyder]

I was just gonna drop it but now I want to watch you eat a shoe, so:

http://einstein-syndrome.com/health_medical/feeding_an_infant/

http://www.ds-health.com/faq.htm (see the very last question)

http://www.about-down-syndrome.com/your-baby-with-down-syndrome.html

Here's a blog of a woman with a DS baby who had to ultimately switch to formula: http://aliceiscanadian.blogspot.com/2006/10/breastfeeding-my-baby-with-down.html


For it being such a ginormous CAN'T per your reference, there sure do seem to be a whole lot of parents giving their Down Syndrome baby formula. Is it as ideal as breastmilk? No. Of course not. It's more ideal for any baby to get breastmilk. But not all women are able to make milk or produce enough. I'm sure that's happened many times to mothers of DS babies throughout history. Did you think the babies just starved to death? No, they gave them formula.

Now, what sort of shoe are you going to be eating? Can I make a request or do we have to go with what you have on hand?

jag
No I think they used a wet nurse.
Which is something thats reccomended to this day above formula.
Youd be hard pressed to find a major hospital that doesnt have a wet nurse program in place for expecting mothers whose child has down syndrome.

In the first link you provided they go on to list all the nutrients formula doesnt contain that down syndrome infants need.
Also if you read that article in its entirety youll see that formula here is in the context of a temporary supplement to breast milk ,not an alternative.
"Eventually mom has enough milk, and baby has learned how to do the nursing well, and the nursing supplementer is no longer needed. "


The final link you provided doesnt make a single mention of this Mother switching to formula.
Way to not read. That mother used a midwife, not formula.

Wont be eating any shoes today my friend.:woot:

[lazur]

Did you even watch the clip... where it shows what Palin SAID. Her words... where she praises the bridge. Also... in those links that you just shrug off, it says that McCain's people are purposefully delaying the investigation.

Keep an 'open' mind as long as you want but it's starting to look more like denial.

I'll be the first to admit she's a dunce if any of what you're speculating about is actually proven to have involved unethical or wrong-doing on her part. Until then, just as Obama received from me despite his many 'questionable' associations, she'll get the benefit of the doubt at least until I have more information and I can form MY OWN OPINION (not yours or anyone else's) about her.

When you are using to describe someone who disagrees with you... that you have no idea what they actually subscribe to... it is bad and insulting.

It can be taken that way, I suppose, but I suppose it's better than a liberal labeling every conservative who disagrees as 'neo-con' particularly since most people who use that label have no idea what it means...

But I appreciate your view. My assumption is that you are a liberal democrat. Are you not?

[jaguarr]

No I think they used a wet nurse.
Which is something thats reccomended to this day above formula.
Youd be hard pressed to find a major hospital that doesnt have a wet nurse program in place for expecting mothers whose child has down syndrome.

Not always an option for every mother with a DS baby that can't breastfeed, though. They give the DS baby formula (usually beefed up formula for their special needs) in those instances.


In the first link you provided they go on to list all the nutrients formula doesnt contain that down syndrome infants need.
Also if you read that article in its entirety youll see that formula here is in the context of a temporary supplement to breast milk ,not an alternative.

Ahhhh, so you admit that they are giving formula to DS babies, then, if even as a way to supplement breast milk. You said that DS babies CAN'T be given formula, yet you just admitted that this site says they are.


"Eventually mom has enough milk, and baby has learned how to do the nursing well, and the nursing supplementer is no longer needed. "

In IDEAL situations. Doesn't always happen.


The final link you provided doesnt make a single mention of this Mother switching to formula.
Way to not read. That mother used a midwife, not formula.

Wont be eating any shoes today my friend.:woot:

Last post on the page:

Hi Tricia
Alfie started biting me about a month ago and I had to wean him too. I thought about trying rubber nipple protectors so that I could continue nursing but couldn't find any easily so I decided that 18 months of nursing was probably enough.

I weaned him to a bottle, and a sippy cup, and a cup with a straw. We interchange each of them so that he doesn't get used to having one particular type, and is still able to get enough milk without struggling. I also tried a medicine pill bottle, with a hole pierced into the safety cap, and a juice carton straw inserted. He could hold that easily in one hand and it helped him get used to a straw. The only problem was that it was so small he finished the drink too quickly.

It can take a couple of days to get used to a sippy cup, and that is what our early interventionist recommended - precisely so we didn't have to wean him from a bottle as you say. But our older son had a bottle until he was four (just in the evening) and then gave it up very easily, so I don't really mind if Alfie has a bottle for a while, as long as it's not the only thing he'll drink from.

I tried to express milk for a few weeks but it's so time consuming I've switched to formula.

Anyway, I hope that is helpful. It's something that we've just been doing so your question is very timely!

Very best,
Alice

Now, about that shoe...

jag

[MaskedManJRK]

Sorry if this has been already posted, but:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

Am I the only one REALLY creeped out by this?

And this isn't wholely like Wright, whom seemed very different from Obama's message to the point where they eventually seperated--Palin herself has said the same things in this church.

[SuBe]

:cmad:

At least you aren't calling each other "Fairtaxers", 'cuz that'd be over the line. :o

jag
:cmad:

It's a term that shows enlightenment, like reaching Nirvana. Tax Policitically Speaking ofcourse. :hehe:

[jaguarr]

:lmao: It's like fishing with dynamite with you, Supes. :heart:

:D

jag

[Gilpesh]

I'll be the first to admit she's a dunce if any of what you're speculating about is actually proven to have involved unethical or wrong-doing on her part. Until then, just as Obama received from me despite his many 'questionable' associations, she'll get the benefit of the doubt at least until I have more information and I can form MY OWN OPINION (not yours or anyone else's) about her.

You won't be. Cause she has already been proven to be not so truthful about that bridge. She was for it before she was against it. And lied... in her introduction speech to everyone.

It can be taken that way, I suppose, but I suppose it's better than a liberal labeling every conservative who disagrees as 'neo-con' particularly since most people who use that label have no idea what it means...

Did I call you that? NO.

So maybe think before labeling everyone that disagrees with you. :whatever:

But I appreciate your view. My assumption is that you are a liberal democrat. Are you not?

Then your assumption is completely wrong.

[lazur]

Sorry if this has been already posted, but:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html





Am I the only one REALLY creeped out by this?

And this isn't wholely like Wright, whom seemed very different from Obama's message to the point where they eventually seperated--Palin herself has said the same things in this church.

While I don't necessarily agree with her, it's not like that view is something new to the politicians of this country. It's only recently that 'talking about God' and 'God's will' have become controversial.

[SuBe]

:lmao: It's like fishing with dynamite with you, Supes. :heart:

:D

jag
I know you do it because you love me. Just stop hitting on me so much, kay?:word:

[lazur]

You won't be. Cause she has already been proven to be not so truthful about that bridge. She was for it before she was against it. And lied... in her introduction speech to everyone.



Did I call you that? NO.

So maybe think before labeling everyone that disagrees with you. :whatever:



Then your assumption is completely wrong.

Of course! But if you're not a liberal, why do you argue like one? Seriously, libertarian? Independent?

[MaskedManJRK]

While I don't necessarily agree with her, it's not like that view is something new to the politicians of this country. It's only recently that 'talking about God' and 'God's will' has become controversial.

I don't really care about "talking about God." If beliving your talking about God is what keeps you from putting a twelve-guage in your mouth, then good for you.

I just start to get nervous when our leaders start using it to justify their actions, espicially considering foreign policy. I'd prefer that they listen to their foreign policy advisors and not their spiritual advisors. :o

[jaguarr]

I know you do it because you love me. Just stop hitting on me so much, kay?:word:

I can't help it now that jmanspice has abandoned us. :o

jag

[Matt]

If Matt votes for the Obama-Biden ticket, I honestly believe the time/space continuum will implode on itself and we will all fly through time a la 2001.

Right now I am considering voting "uncommitted," for the president and vote Joe Biden for VP.

[jaguarr]

I don't really care about "talking about God." If beliving your talking about God is what keeps you from putting a twelve-guage in your mouth, then good for you.

I just start to get nervous when our leaders start using it to justify their actions, espicially considering foreign policy. I'd prefer that they listen to their foreign policy advisors and not their spiritual advisors. :o

I have to agree with this statement and I'd extend it to not just foreign policy but domestic policy as well. I'm a big fan of separation of church and state. :up:

jag

[EdRyder]

Hi Tricia
Alfie started biting me about a month ago and I had to wean him too. I thought about trying rubber nipple protectors so that I could continue nursing but couldn't find any easily so I decided that 18 months of nursing was probably enough.

I weaned him to a bottle, and a sippy cup, and a cup with a straw. We interchange each of them so that he doesn't get used to having one particular type, and is still able to get enough milk without struggling. I also tried a medicine pill bottle, with a hole pierced into the safety cap, and a juice carton straw inserted. He could hold that easily in one hand and it helped him get used to a straw. The only problem was that it was so small he finished the drink too quickly.

It can take a couple of days to get used to a sippy cup, and that is what our early interventionist recommended - precisely so we didn't have to wean him from a bottle as you say. But our older son had a bottle until he was four (just in the evening) and then gave it up very easily, so I don't really mind if Alfie has a bottle for a while, as long as it's not the only thing he'll drink from.

I tried to express milk for a few weeks but it's so time consuming I've switched to formula.

Anyway, I hope that is helpful. It's something that we've just been doing so your question is very timely!

Very best,
Alice


After 18 months of breastmilk!!!! I will not eat a shoe!!!
The thing that ticks me off most is you knew I was right from the get go ,you just wanna argue!!!!

I will use exclamation points!!!!!!!

This woman allowed a midwife to nurse her child when she was going through chemo therapy, Rather than switch to formula then.She didnt switch over exclusivly to formula.

[MaskedManJRK]

I have to agree with this statement and I'd extend it to not just foreign policy but domestic policy as well. I'm a big fan of separation of church and state. :up:

jag

I fully agree, but since her faith was being used to talk about the Iraq war, I was focusing on foreign policy.

But yeah, I forget who said it, but the best quote I heard was something like, "government and religion should be different things."

Who was the guy who said that? ...Oh yeah! Jesus!

:o

[jaguarr]

Hi Tricia
Alfie started biting me about a month ago and I had to wean him too. I thought about trying rubber nipple protectors so that I could continue nursing but couldn't find any easily so I decided that 18 months of nursing was probably enough.

I weaned him to a bottle, and a sippy cup, and a cup with a straw. We interchange each of them so that he doesn't get used to having one particular type, and is still able to get enough milk without struggling. I also tried a medicine pill bottle, with a hole pierced into the safety cap, and a juice carton straw inserted. He could hold that easily in one hand and it helped him get used to a straw. The only problem was that it was so small he finished the drink too quickly.

It can take a couple of days to get used to a sippy cup, and that is what our early interventionist recommended - precisely so we didn't have to wean him from a bottle as you say. But our older son had a bottle until he was four (just in the evening) and then gave it up very easily, so I don't really mind if Alfie has a bottle for a while, as long as it's not the only thing he'll drink from.

I tried to express milk for a few weeks but it's so time consuming I've switched to formula.

Anyway, I hope that is helpful. It's something that we've just been doing so your question is very timely!

Very best,
Alice


After 18 months of breastmilk!!!! I will not eat a shoe!!!
The thing that ticks me off most is you knew I was right from the get go ,you just wanna argue!!!!

I will use exclamation points!!!!!!!

This woman allowed a midwife to nurse her child when she was going through chemo therapy, Rather than switch to formula then.She didnt switch over exclusivly to formula.

So you admit that she let her Down Syndrome baby have formula, then? I win. Yay! :hehe:

jag

[SuBe]

I fully agree, but since her faith was being used to talk about the Iraq war, I was focusing on foreign policy.

But yeah, I forget who said it, but the best quote I heard was something like, "government and religion should be different things."

Who was the guy who said that? ...Oh yeah! Jesus!

:o
I think he said it differently, like "Give to thee what is Cesars", but close enough.

[Gilpesh]

While I don't necessarily agree with her, it's not like that view is something new to the politicians of this country. It's only recently that 'talking about God' and 'God's will' have become controversial.

Because when the people want reasons for soldiers dying... God's Will is quite the s**ty argument.

Of course! But if you're not a liberal, why do you argue like one? Seriously, libertarian? Independent?

:whatever:

[MaskedManJRK]

I think he said it differently, like "Give to thee what is Cesars", but close enough.

Yeah, I knew Cesar was involved, I just couldn't for the life of me remember the rest and was too lazy to look it up. :o

[jaguarr]

All this stuff from the McCain campaign of "The media is being unfair, blah, blah, blah!!!!!" is really giving me flashbacks of Bush and Rove where they pulled the same crap, saying that the media was being biased and asking unfair questions. It worked that time and the media actually backed off and quit asking the hard questions they SHOULD have been asking and doing the insightful journalism they SHOULD have been. Seems they've gotten wise to this trick and are engaging in actual journalism for a change, which is refreshing to see given how shoddily they did their part to vet the candidates in the last election.

jag

[EdRyder]

So you admit that she let her Down Syndrome baby have formula, then? I win. Yay! :hehe:

jag

18 months !!! Hes on solid food by then!!!

No you lost!:cmad::cmad: youre just tring to drive me postal:oldrazz:

You put a newborn DS on fornula its gonna die.

[Gilpesh]

I think he said it differently, like "Give to thee what is Cesars", but close enough.

"Render unto Cesars what is Cesar's, and render unto God what is God's."

I just saw it on that Jesus vs Jeezus picture. :hehe:

[jaguarr]

18 months !!! Hes on solid food by then!!!

No you lost!:cmad::cmad: youre just tring to drive me postal:oldrazz:

You put a newborn DS on fornula its gonna die.

If he's on solid food then why does he need formula? That doesn't even make sense? :huh:

I haven't seen ANY links that say "If you put a DS baby on formula he will die", by the way.

jag

[Raiden]

All this stuff from the McCain campaign of "The media is being unfair, blah, blah, blah!!!!!" is really giving me flashbacks of Bush and Rove where they pulled the same crap, saying that the media was being biased and asking unfair questions. It worked that time and the media actually backed off and quit asking the hard questions they SHOULD have been asking and doing the insightful journalism they SHOULD have been. Seems they've gotten wise to this trick and are engaging in actual journalism for a change, which is refreshing to see given how shoddily they did their part to vet the candidates in the last election.

jag

I hope the media won't be intimated and continue to ask the hard questions. With the truth about Palin's Troopergate still yet to be revealed fully, the media must do its part and not back off.

[lazur]

All this stuff from the McCain campaign of "The media is being unfair, blah, blah, blah!!!!!" is really giving me flashbacks of Bush and Rove where they pulled the same crap, saying that the media was being biased and asking unfair questions. It worked that time and the media actually backed off and quit asking the hard questions they SHOULD have been asking and doing the insightful journalism they SHOULD have been. Seems they've gotten wise to this trick and are engaging in actual journalism for a change, which is refreshing to see given how shoddily they did their part to vet the candidates in the last election.

jag

I agree that the 'media bias' has been greatly exaggerated in many respects, but I also have to call into question ANY media outlet for bringing Palin's kids into the discussion as if to imply that she's somehow an 'unfit parent.'

[SuBe]

"Render unto Cesars what is Cesar's, and render unto God what is God's."

I just saw it on that Jesus vs Jeezus picture. :hehe:
Whatever, I was pretty durn close.

[Gilpesh]

I hope the media won't be intimated and continue to ask the hard questions. With the truth about Palin's Troopergate still yet to be revealed fully, the media must do its part and not back off.

UYYiw_y2qDI

Whatever, I was pretty durn close.

:up:

[Franklin Richards]

It's not questioning her motherhood. It's questioning her backing of a failed, archaic policy. The abstinence only education. This is fair.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jaguarr]

I hope the media won't be intimated and continue to ask the hard questions. With the truth about Palin's Troopergate still yet to be revealed fully, the media must do its part and not back off.

The RNC cracks me up because they GLEEFULLY engaged in rumor mongering and character attack after character attack on Obama for even the most insignificant of things, engaging in smear tactics and speculation in the media with great zest. The minute it starts happening to THEIR candidate, though, oh well that's the media being unfair and sexist. Whatever. You didn't vet her properly so the media is going to do it for you. Morons. :whatever:

jag

[jaguarr]

I agree that the 'media bias' has been greatly exaggerated in many respects, but I also have to call into question ANY media outlet for bringing Palin's kids into the discussion as if to imply that she's somehow an 'unfit parent.'

Yeah, that aspect is uncool, but it is something some people will want to talk about, unfortunately. Doesn't make it right. However, this crying foul and "sexist" from the RNC over every single little last detail about this candidate that percolates to the surface and gets explored by the media, especially the stuff that has meat to it like the Troopergate stuff or the AIP stuff, is ridiculous. They had no problem rolling around in this pigpen when it was being done to the Democratic candidates, after all.

jag

[SuBe]

Yeah, that aspect is uncool, but it is something some people will want to talk about, unfortunately. Doesn't make it right. However, this crying foul and "sexist" from the RNC over every single little last detail about this candidate that percolates to the surface and gets explored by the media, especially the stuff that has meat to it like the Troopergate stuff or the AIP stuff, is ridiculous. They had no problem rolling around in this pigpen when it was being done to the Democratic candidates, after all.

jag
I'm not going to go over all 3000 posts in this thread, but what was this State Trooper supposed to be fired for doing?

[jaguarr]

It's not questioning her motherhood. It's questioning her backing of a failed, archaic policy. The abstinence only education. This is fair.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

True. That part of her policy beliefs absolutely gets called into play. Especially given the circumstances of her own daughter (not her daughter, but her circumstances...there is a difference) and the fact that she cut funding for assistance for teen mothers earlier this year in Alaska...that stuff absolutely should be brought up.

jag

[MaskedManJRK]

Again, not sure if this has been posted on here, but:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1837918,00.html

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

So...pro-life, homophobe, abuser of power AND a book banner?

And to think I thought she was moderate.

[jaguarr]

I'm not going to go over all 3000 posts in this thread, but what was this State Trooper supposed to be fired for doing?

The most I can gather was that he was kind of a dick (and Palin's ex brother-in-law). At any rate, the real question isn't whether the guy deserved to be fired or not (he very well may have deserved to be for all I know), it's whether Palin overstepped her bounds and abused her power to make sure he was (and also whether there was any malicious intent behind it given that he was her ex brother-in-law).

jag

[Tron5000]

I'm not going to go over all 3000 posts in this thread, but what was this State Trooper supposed to be fired for doing?

Well, the trooper was Palin's ex-brother-in-law. He also happened to get caught drinking beer in his squad car. As well, he tasered his own 11-year-old son. Palin herself called for the investigation to clear her name, and the guy running the investigation said himself that Palin was not involved in the firing of the trooper.

[jaguarr]

Again, not sure if this has been posted on here, but:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1837918,00.html



So...pro-life, homophobe, abuser of power AND a book banner?

And to think I thought she was moderate.

She's a radical. I've known it from the get go. Scary policies.

jag

[MaskedManJRK]

"Render unto Cesars what is Cesar's, and render unto God what is God's."

I just saw it on that Jesus vs Jeezus picture. :hehe:

I've been trying to find that one again for a while now, with no luck. Can you PM it to me?

I agree that the 'media bias' has been greatly exaggerated in many respects, but I also have to call into question ANY media outlet for bringing Palin's kids into the discussion as if to imply that she's somehow an 'unfit parent.'

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Palin announce her daughter's pregnancy at a press conference?

I'm not going to go over all 3000 posts in this thread, but what was this State Trooper supposed to be fired for doing?

I hear two different versions:

1. A trooper she fired filed a divorce on Palin's sister.
2. Fired one of the bigger police officers for being against an open concealment law.

[Gilpesh]

I'm not going to go over all 3000 posts in this thread, but what was this State Trooper supposed to be fired for doing?

The issue is that her ex-brother in law was in a nasty custody battle with Palin's sister. Palin's family suddenly has all this dirt on him and says he's a bad guy and needs to be fired. All they get him on is something light and he gets suspended. Palin doesn't like that and fires the guy that refused to fire him.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5702697&page=1

That has some of it. But I can't quite find the other bits from this thread.

Well, the trooper was Palin's ex-brother-in-law. He also happened to get caught drinking beer in his squad car. As well, he tasered his own 11-year-old son. Palin herself called for the investigation to clear her name, and the guy running the investigation said himself that Palin was not involved in the firing of the trooper.

Evidence for it? Also she called her own investigation... after a bipartisan committee was already investigating her.

[jaguarr]

Well, the trooper was Palin's ex-brother-in-law. He also happened to get caught drinking beer in his squad car. As well, he tasered his own 11-year-old son. Palin herself called for the investigation to clear her name, and the guy running the investigation said himself that Palin was not involved in the firing of the trooper.

Uh, no, the lead investigator into all of this has not cleared her:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5702697&page=1

And in fact, the McCain Campaign has tried to suppress the results of the investigation until after the election. Interesting.

Also, Palin is trying to pull the investigation away from the state legislature where it legally belongs and move it to the state board (where she presumably has more favor):

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.investigation/

jag

[SuBe]

Well, the trooper was Palin's ex-brother-in-law. He also happened to get caught drinking beer in his squad car. As well, he tasered his own 11-year-old son. Palin herself called for the investigation to clear her name, and the guy running the investigation said himself that Palin was not involved in the firing of the trooper.
That's what I heard, but wasn't sure, so what's the problem, you can fire a Female cop for posing in playboy, but can't fire a cop that is doing behavior unbecoming of a police officer?

[kainedamo]

There is one problem, guys. Niether SB or Tron5000 has posted links with a source to confirm what you are saying.

[Tron5000]

Uh, no, the lead investigator into all of this has not cleared her:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5702697&page=1

And in fact, the McCain Campaign has tried to suppress the results of the investigation until after the election. Interesting.

Also, Palin is trying to pull the investigation away from the state legislature where it legally belongs and move it to the state board (where she presumably has more favor):

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.investigation/

jag

That's the state senator currently heading the investigation. The previous lead stated that Palin was not involved. I'm trying to find the story, and I'll post it when I do.

[Tron5000]

There is one problem, guys. Niether SB or Tron5000 has posted links with a source to confirm what you are saying.

I thought I was on your Ignore list. What happened? People wouldn't fill you in on my posts?

[SuBe]

There is one problem, guys. Niether SB or Tron5000 has posted links with a source to confirm what you are saying.
Get over it, if I wasn't at work, I'd be spending more time to do so.

[kainedamo]

Get over it, if I wasn't at work, I'd be spending more time to do so.

No need for the 'tude.

[SuBe]

No need for the 'tude.
What tude, dude. In my post, I said, "I heard", and in listened to, as in, the Radio. Difficult to post something you heard on the Radio.

[jaguarr]

What tude, dude. In my post, I said, "I heard", and in listened to, as in, the Radio. Difficult to post something you heard on the Radio.

Link? :oldrazz:

jag

[SuBe]

Link? :oldrazz:

jag
You know where you can stick you link!

:hehe:

[souvlaki]

Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy caught on hot mic on CNN talking about Palin.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CrG8w4bb3kg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CrG8w4bb3kg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Best quote?

Noonan: it's over. [...] The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bull**** about narratives -- Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

[jaguarr]

You know where you can stick you link!

:hehe:

In your Fairtax Book? :huh: *steps away from SuBe*

jag

[Gilpesh]

Get over it, if I wasn't at work, I'd be spending more time to do so.

At the time Palin said she wanted the department to move in a new direction. But later, after Monegan said he felt pressured to fire Wooten, Palin at a news conference said Monegan wasn't a team player, didn't do enough to fill trooper vacancies and battle alcohol abuse issues in rural Alaska.It began with a July 17 blog posting from Halcro, whose accusations gained momentum when Monegan publicly said he felt pressure from Palin's administration to fire Wooten.
A few days later, the state approved $100,000 to hire an outside investigator, Branchflower, a former Anchorage prosecutor, to look into the firing.
Monegan could not be reached for comment, but he recently told the Anchorage Daily News that he was never directly told by Palin or anyone to fire Wooten. But he maintained that Palin, members of her administration and her husband, Todd Palin, raised the issue about Wooten's employment numerous times.
A month after Monegan was dismissed, Palin revealed that at least two dozens calls were made from her staff members to Department of Public Safety officials, also questioning Wooten's employment. But she denied orchestrating the calls.
One of those took place between Frank Bailey, Palin's director of boards and commissions, and an Alaska state trooper serving as a liaison to the Legislature.
In the recorded conversation, Bailey is heard saying: "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, why on earth hasn't, why is this guy still representing the department? He's a horrible recruiting tool. ... You know, I mean from their perspective, everyone's protecting him."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-trooper-scandal-cou_n_122903.html

[SuBe]

In your Fairtax Book? :huh: *steps away from SuBe*

jag
Sure. How many copies do you need? I bought 10.:yay:

[SuBe]

Us Weekly Cover Blasts Sarah Palin, but for the Obamas It’s a Cakewalk

The popular celebrity gossip magazine Us Weekly has jumped into the political ring, feet first, with a scathing article about Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

On its most recent cover, due out on newsstands Friday, the magazine shows a picture of Palin with the headline, “Babies, Lies & Scandal” — a marked contrast from its gushing review of Barack and Michelle Obama that ran two months ago.

Critics say this cover, which was released a day ahead of Palin’s acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, is a sucker punch aimed at the GOP ticket, and is a blatant attempt to influence the votes of the magazine’s 12 million mostly female readers.

Us Weekly publisher Jann Wenner is an outspoken supporter of Barack Obama and the Democratic Party.

“When you look at this Palin cover and contrast it with the super-friendly story on Obama, it’s hard not to see that they’re clearly biased,” said Jane Hall, associate professor at the American University School of Communication. “It’s not fair and it’s also offensive. I think that they are going to be offensive to many people regardless of whether you’re for Sarah Palin or not.”

Us Weekly’s June 19 cover featured a photo of the Obamas with the headline, “Michelle Obama: Why Barack Loves Her.” In smaller print: “She shops at Target, Loved Sex and the City, and never misses the girls’ recitals. The untold romance between the down-to-earth mom and the man who calls her ‘my rock.’”

In contrast, this week’s Palin cover shows the Alaskan governor cradling her baby Trig in her arms. The captions: “Under attack, admits her daughter, 17, is pregnant. Investigated for firing of sister’s ex-husband. Mom of five: New embarrassing surprises.”

An article inside the magazine focuses on a January 15 incident in which Palin laughed along with an Alaskan shock-jock DJ who called her political rival, a cancer survivor name Lyda Green, a “cancer” and a “*****” and ridiculed her weight.

Wenner, the magazine’s publisher, has given $130,308 to Democratic causes and candidates since 1993 — and only $3,500 to Republicans, according to records. Wenner also runs Men’s Journal magazine and Rolling Stone magazine. In March, Rolling Stone featured a glowing endorsement of Obama, “Barack Obama: A New Hope,” on its cover.

Hall said she found the Wenner-owned magazine’s coverage transparent and troubling. “I mean look at the Obama cover and look at this new one,” she said. “New embarrassing surprises? Really? You couldn’t have a stronger contrast, at least between these two covers,” Hall said.

Rumors about Palin’s personal life and publich record have been swirling since John McCain named her to be his running mate last week.

On Monday, Palin released a statement confirming that her 17-year old daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant, prompting the media spotlight. Despite calls from both Democrats and Republicans to leave Palin’s family out of the media, many political watchers say that it is contradictory for a public official who has a staunch stance against sex education and promotes abstinence-only programs to have a teenage daughter who is pregnant.

While Hall said McCain’s camp should have done more to vet Palin, she said this level of media depiction is unfair.

“Publications like this one are taking it too far. Calling it ‘Babies, Lies and Scandal’ looks out of bounds,” she said.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/03/us-weekly-cover-blasts-sarah-palin-but-for-the-obamas-its-a-cake-walk/

[Gilpesh]

Ugh... US Weekly going political.

Make it stop!

[Superman4ever]

Palin's Priests: Anti-Jewish Terror is Judgment! (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/anti-jewish-ter.html)

UGH, these radical Christians REALLY piss me off. :cmad:

Yes, Sarah Palin sat in a church where this message was given. Two weeks ago. The karma in all this is just amazing:

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.

How does Hannity deal with this? After what he said about Jeremiah Wright?

I really wonder what Vannity, Bill-O, and all the other right-wing nuts are going to say.

*waits for the tumble weed*

[Superman4ever]

Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy caught on hot mic on CNN talking about Palin.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CrG8w4bb3kg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CrG8w4bb3kg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Best quote?

Noonan: it's over. [...] The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bull**** about narratives -- Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

I just saw this, I loved it!

[Raiden]

Palin's Priests: Anti-Jewish Terror is Judgment! (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/anti-jewish-ter.html)

UGH, these radical Christians REALLY piss me off. :cmad:



I really wonder what Vannity, Bill-O, and all the other right-wing nuts are going to say.

*waits for the tumble weed*

Ignore them and pretend they never happen.

[Tron5000]

Palin's Priests: Anti-Jewish Terror is Judgment! (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/anti-jewish-ter.html)

UGH, these radical Christians REALLY piss me off. :cmad:



I really wonder what Vannity, Bill-O, and all the other right-wing nuts are going to say.

*waits for the tumble weed*

This was a guest speaker. Palin did not sit in the pews of this man's church for 20 years while he delivered these diatribes.

Also, from the same article:


A spokesman for McCain and Palin, Michael Goldfarb, dismissed the notion that Palin would bring a Jewish problem.

“If this is going to be about who was at church on the day of which sermon, that’s not going to be an argument that the Obama campaign is going to win,” he said, a reference to Obama’s controversial former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

“This woman has been on the national stage for all of four days – of course it’s going to take some time for people to get a sense of what her views are on some things,” Goldfarb said. “Once she’s had a chance to make her positions clear on these issues, the Jewish community is going to be very, very comfortable with her.”

In the meantime, however, there’s simply little information available about Palin’s views. Two of Palin’s prominent Alaska Jewish allies, Rabbi Joseph Greenberg and businessman Terry Gorlick, told Politico they consider her a friend of the Jews. But they said they’d never heard her discuss Middle East policy in detail and that she’d never visited Israel, though they cited a boilerplate Alaska-Israel friendship resolution she signed.

[souvlaki]

So Palin has now not only taken experience talk off the table, she may have taken crazy pastors talk off the table as well. Good to know.

[Malice]

dear lord, I am gone for 1.5 hours and there is freaking 7 pages of posts....
I am not catching up on this.

Screw you all!
:)

[Superman4ever]

8 more facts you might not know about Palin. (http://www.alternet.org/election08/97350/?page=1)

[.Rorschach.]

what time is she speaking tonight?

[souvlaki]

This was a guest speaker. Palin did not sit in the pews of this man's church for 20 years while he delivered these diatribes.

Also, from the same article:

It's so funny to see you scramble for excuses when six months ago you were the one pointing fingers. This woman is pretty much singlehandedly undermining ever single piece of criticism the Republican Party has given to Obama over the last six months.

[Tron5000]

what time is she speaking tonight?

I think around 10 or so. They want as much of the WC as possible to be able to see her speech.

[.Rorschach.]

Thanks a lot for the info Tron5000

[Tron5000]

So Palin has now not only taken experience talk off the table, she may have taken crazy pastors talk off the table as well. Good to know.

Um, that was not her pastor. And I'm pretty sure she didn't sit in the pews of a church for 20 years and claim that she was completely ignorant of what was being preached every Sunday in her own church. There's a bit of a difference between her guest speaker and Obama calling Jeremiah Wright his "spiritual mentor," yet feigning ignorance of his beliefs.

[kainedamo]

She was in this church as recently as last week when the pastor was giving anti-semetic remarks.

[Tron5000]

It's so funny to see you scramble for excuses when six months ago you were the one pointing fingers. This woman is pretty much singlehandedly undermining ever single piece of criticism the Republican Party has given to Obama over the last six months.

Really? Does she hang out with unapologetic, unrepentant domestic terrorists? Did she save $200,000 on her home by having her purchase subsidized by the slumlord convicted felon next door (to whom millions of dollars were funneled) paying more for his home than it was worth? Did she vote "present" on over 100 occasions? Does she claim to be for "change" while choosing the 3rd-longest tenured member of the broken Washington Senate as a running mate? Was her mentor during her formative years a known member of the Communist Party of the United States of America?

[Comicfilmer]

Really? Does she hang out with unapologetic, unrepentant domestic terrorists? Did she save $200,000 on her home by having her purchase subsidized by the slumlord convicted felon next door (to whom millions of dollars were funneled) paying more for his home than it was worth? Did she vote "present" on over 100 occasions? Does she claim to be for "change" while choosing the 3rd-longest tenured member of the broken Washington Senate as a running mate? Was her mentor during her formative years a known member of the Communist Party of the United States of America?

We don't really know yet. But this time next week, at the rate we're going, I'm sure we'll be able to cross a few more of those off the list.

[Tron5000]

We don't really know yet. But this time next week, at the rate we're going, I'm sure we'll be able to cross a few more of those off the list.

Cool. Let me know when her terrorist friends spring up. Let me know when we have learned that she saved money on her home by having the purchased subsidized by a known felon and slumlord. I'll be waiting with baited breath.

[souvlaki]

John McCain’s campaign threatened legal action against the National Enquirer today for running a story about McCain’s running mate, Sarah Palin, allegedly having an affair with her husband’s business partner.

I realize it's the National Enquirer, but their track record the last year has been pretty good...

[MaskedManJRK]

This was a guest speaker. Palin did not sit in the pews of this man's church for 20 years while he delivered these diatribes.

Also, from the same article:

No, she didn't just sit in the pews--she was a guest speaker, too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

Cool. Let me know when her terrorist friends spring up. Let me know when we have learned that she saved money on her home by having the purchased subsidized by a known felon and slumlord. I'll be waiting with baited breath.

Will Alaska Seperatists work?

http://faithfulprogressive.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-alaskan-separatist-group-hates.html

[Hobodeluxe]

One thing I have noticed about the responses from the McCain campaign is Sexist is the new POW for a cover all excuse for any criticism.

[Tron5000]

No, she didn't just sit in the pews--she was a guest speaker, too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html



Will Alaska Seperatists work?

http://faithfulprogressive.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-alaskan-separatist-group-hates.html

Um, not really. Since your post was in reference to mine about "terrorists," a group (of which she is not a member) advocating for secession from the Union hardly qualifies. Hell, I'm mad at the federal government. If Georgia wanted to secede from the union, I might be in favor of it. The federal government has grown far beyond its bounds, and if I remember correctly, this nation was founded by those who sought refuge from an oppressive government.

And the views you discuss were those of a single guest speaker, not the pastor of a church which she attended for 20 years. Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that.

[kainedamo]

It's sad that Tron5000 is so aggravated by criticisms of Palin that he defends her by bringing up old Obama scandals. It's kind of avoiding the issue at hand really, isn't it? Why hold Obama up to a different standard than Palin?

This is the Sarah Palin thread, not the Obama thread. And deflecting criticisms of Palin by bringing up criticisms of Obama is not a legitamite defense.

[Tron5000]

One thing I have noticed about the responses from the McCain campaign is Sexist is the new POW for a cover all excuse for any criticism.

Well, when people are criticizing a woman for taking a high-profile job and questioning her fitness as a mother because of it, what exactly would you call it? Don't remember anyone asking if Obama would be able to properly care for his children with all the responsibilities of the Commander in Chief.

[Tron5000]

It's sad that Tron5000 is so aggravated by criticisms of Palin that he defends her by bringing up old Obama scandals. It's kind of avoiding the issue at hand really, isn't it? Why hold Obama up to a different standard than Palin?

This is the Sarah Palin thread, not the Obama thread. And deflecting criticisms of Palin by bringing up criticisms of Obama is not a legitamite defense.

I am merely pointing out that if we're going to discuss religious issues, Obama has a LOT more baggage than does Palin. If you want to have a debate on a candidate's religion, I'm happy to do it any time. Fact is, your candidate will lose in such a debate.

And again: What happened to my Ignore status?

[Malice]

Lets get off the pregnancy issue of her kid, that honestly has no baring on this issue....
Talk about her policies and the like...

[Tron5000]

Lets get off the pregnancy issue of her kid, that honestly has no baring on this issue....
Talk about her policies and the like...

The only bearing it has for me is that the young woman has decided to have the child and marry the father. If she chose another avenue, say, deciding to abort the baby because she did not want to be "punished" with a child, I may have a problem with it.

[danoyse]

Well, when people are criticizing a woman for taking a high-profile job and questioning her fitness as a mother because of it, what exactly would you call it? Don't remember anyone asking if Obama would be able to properly care for his children with all the responsibilities of the Commander in Chief.

I posted this in response to the "sexist" issue a few pages back, and I don't feel like typing it out again:

It's not the big, bad Democrats creating this nonsense about her kids. Another forum I read is plenty conservative, and many of them are questioning the same thing.

It's not a sexist question. How does a party who's current nominee was the result of a teenage pregancy, who was nearly defeated by a woman who raised her own child while living in the White House for 8 years possibly bring this into account?

The people I've seen really raise this question the most have been moms. All working moms who balance career and family. They know how hard it is...they wonder how much harder it will be with such an important position (not to mention one she will obviously have to be learning along the way), and even more so with a special needs infant...and teenage daughter with a baby on the way.

It's an absolutely valid question. The Republicans think they can just scream SEXIST and not have to answer it.

[Tron5000]

I posted this in response to the "sexist" issue a few pages back, and I don't feel like typing it out again:

It's not the big, bad Democrats creating this nonsense about her kids. Another forum I read is plenty conservative, and many of them are questioning the same thing.

It's not a sexist question. How does a party who's current nominee was the result of a teenage pregancy, who was nearly defeated by a woman who raised her own child while living in the White House for 8 years possibly bring this into account?

The people I've seen really raise this question the most have been moms. All working moms who balance career and family. They know how hard it is...they wonder how much harder it will be with such an important position (not to mention one she will obviously have to be learning along the way), and even more so with a special needs infant...and teenage daughter with a baby on the way.

It's an absolutely valid question. The Republicans think they can just scream SEXIST and not have to answer it.

I read many Conservative blogs, and the people who I have heard questioning her fitness as a mother are those on the Left (John Roberts from CNN, FoxNews's Alan Colmes, et al). I even saw a post yesterday saying Palin was unfit for VP because her daughter was an "S-L-U-T."

Haven't seen Conservatives calling her out for her parenting techniques. Perhaps I'm looking in all the wrong places, though.

[Comicfilmer]

Alright then. I'm a conservative calling her out.

[ShadowBoxing]

I am merely pointing out that if we're going to discuss religious issues, Obama has a LOT more baggage than does Palin. If you want to have a debate on a candidate's religion, I'm happy to do it any time. Fact is, your candidate will lose in such a debate.

And again: What happened to my Ignore status?Obama self-identifies as a Christian, which is the only thing you really need to be considered a Christian. Christianity is among the few religions that doesn't require strict conversion practices, so he would not "lose" such a debate. Furthermore, she's the most wacko Christian on either ticket, using religion as both a basis to deny evolution and global warming. If you want to talk about losing debates...

[ShadowBoxing]

Well, when people are criticizing a woman for taking a high-profile job and questioning her fitness as a mother because of it, what exactly would you call it? Don't remember anyone asking if Obama would be able to properly care for his children with all the responsibilities of the Commander in Chief.Unfortunately your "right" doesn't [just] use it there. The counters of her being an unfit mother aside, I've seen them use the sexism angle already in simple counters to her experience. The congresswoman called James Carville, for example, sexist when he held up a picture of her strip mall town hall "shop" where she governed Wasilla. The same James Carville who a few months ago campaigned on behalf of Hillary Clinton, the first major female candidate for President. I've seen the sexism angle used when questioning her foreign policy experience, experience from day one as an executive in the White House, her knowledge of the Iraq War and Korea, her not knowing what a VP does? These are charges of sexism? No, they're questions, serious questions, of her readiness, questions that are not answered and called "sexist".

Let me ask you this, when Hillary Clinton comes out and says Sarah Palin is less qualified than a McDonald's employee to be VP are you still going to call it sexist?

[danoyse]

I read many Conservative blogs, and the people who I have heard questioning her fitness as a mother are those on the Left (John Roberts from CNN, FoxNews's Alan Colmes, et al). I even saw a post yesterday saying Palin was unfit for VP because her daughter was an "S-L-U-T."

Haven't seen Conservatives calling her out for her parenting techniques. Perhaps I'm looking in all the wrong places, though.

If it was a post, then I'm assuming it was a response in the comments section from a random visitor to the site? Not always the best source of anything.

And again...I don't see anyone questioning her fitness as a mother. She has 5 beautiful kids. Yes, the daughter got pregnant, but that doesn't make her a bad mother or the daughter a bad kid. It happens. I'm sure she's a great mom.

What they're questioning is whether or not a mother of 5 children, including a newborn with special needs and an expectant teenager, is ready to take on a job of this magnitude. We don't really know now what kind of developmental needs the baby is going to need, as all DS cases are different. What if Bristol, who's been thrust into a media spotlight, has problems with her baby? How do they as parents protect their children?

It's a fair question. We've never had a situation like this before. There's nothing sexist about it. If it was a single father, they would be asking the same question. If it was a Democrat, they would be asking the same question.

[Spider-Gamer]

Have any of you heard or read yet of some of the quotes Sarah Palin will say tonight?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.speech/index.html

[Tron5000]

If it was a post, then I'm assuming it was a response in the comments section from a random visitor to the site? Not always the best source of anything.

And again...I don't see anyone questioning her fitness as a mother. She has 5 beautiful kids. Yes, the daughter got pregnant, but that doesn't make her a bad mother or the daughter a bad kid. It happens. I'm sure she's a great mom.

What they're questioning is whether or not a mother of 5 children, including a newborn with special needs and an expectant teenager, is ready to take on a job of this magnitude. We don't really know now what kind of developmental needs the baby is going to need, as all DS cases are different. What if Bristol, who's been thrust into a media spotlight, has problems with her baby? How do they as parents protect their children?

It's a fair question. We've never had a situation like this before. There's nothing sexist about it. If it was a single father, they would be asking the same question. If it was a Democrat, they would be asking the same question.

She's not a single mother. I've not heard anyone mention that her husband is a bad father, so I assume there are 2 loving parents caring for their children.

[Superman]

She is a Governor....and a Highly successful one....leave the motherhood aspect out of it.
I tell you, I think that will so piss off so many people it might backfire.

I have personally talked to 5 friends that do NOT think the same politically as me and they are absolutely pissed....4 women and 1 man. I think that sort of attack is going to backfire...
Just my 2 cents.

What makes her a "Highly Successful Governor"? What has she done in the year and a half that she has been Governor of Alaska that makes her a "Highly Successful Governor" in your eyes?

Can you list the things she's done please? And please don't come back with "Well Obama has less experience....blah blah blah". We ain't talking about Obama here, We are talking about Palin and HER experience. I'm not saying she doesn't have the experience, She may have it, I just wish somebody, Anybody, Would say what that experience is because so far all i've heard from McCain suporters is how Obama has less. They never answer the question of what exactly is the experience that she has so much of. :(



I will agree with you on the fact that if people keep going on about this baby stuff it's going to backfire on the Dems and she is going to get sympathy votes because"The big bad liberal media is picking on the little lady".:whatever::csad:

You know, I'll take answers to this question from any McCain supporter. Malice isn't the only McCain supporter out there. I'd really like to hear what you guys think makes her experienced enough to be VP without bringing Obama into it.

Again, I'm not saying she isn't experienced, I just don't know what that experience is.:csad:Hey Tron5000, Maybe you will tackle this. You act like you know alot about Palin.

And remember, Do try to do it WITHOUT dragging Obama into this. This isn't about Obama, This about Palin and her experience.

I'll be waiting. Thank you. :yay:

[Matt]

It's sad that Tron5000 is so aggravated by criticisms of Palin that he defends her by bringing up old Obama scandals. It's kind of avoiding the issue at hand really, isn't it? Why hold Obama up to a different standard than Palin?

This is the Sarah Palin thread, not the Obama thread. And deflecting criticisms of Palin by bringing up criticisms of Obama is not a legitamite defense.

Says the guy whose only response to any of Obama's shortcomings is "well McCain said..." or "McCain did..." or "7 houses!"

[kainedamo]

Well, looks like she doesn't write her own speeches.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.speech/index.html

The Alaska governor has spent most of the past 48 hours working in a hotel room with speechwriter Matt Scully and adviser Nicolle Wallace. On Tuesday, they worked nonstop from 11 a.m. until 1 a.m. She also did a read-through with the prompter at 10 p.m. -- exactly 24 hours before the real speech, the aides said.

[danoyse]

Have any of you heard or read yet of some of the quotes Sarah Palin will say tonight?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.speech/index.html

Even better, have you seen Romney's comments? He's actually going after Michelle Obama...after all this business this week about families being off-limits. :whatever:

[kainedamo]

Says the guy whose only response to any of Obama's shortcomings is "well McCain said..." or "McCain did..." or "7 houses!"

Matt, I don't respond like that to Obama criticisms and you know it.

[Superman]

Well, looks like she doesn't write her own speeches.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/03/palin.speech/index.htmlSo? That happens all the time. That's nothing to go after her for.:huh:

[kainedamo]

So? That happens all the time. That's nothing to go after her for.:huh:

I only bring it up because after Obama's DNC speech, someone (can't remember who) on the Hype was saying "well he doesn't write his own speeches".

[hitmanyr2k]

Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy caught on hot mic on CNN talking about Palin.


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Best quote?

Noonan: it's over. [...] The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bull**** about narratives -- Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

Ouch lol. Very embarrassing but at the same time amusing. These pundit interviews would be so much more interesting if people said outright what they really thought instead of toeing the party line. It's refreshing to hear straight talk for a change.

[Malice]

I found this interesting to those that say he never thought about picking Palin until Clinton got snubbed:

mccain-palin.com was registed JANUARY 29th, 2008

My brother in law contracted me that he knows this was registed by mccain


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[Tron5000]

Hey Tron5000, Maybe you will tackle this. You act like you know alot about Palin.

And remember, Do try to do it WITHOUT draging Obama into this. This isn't about Obama, This about Palin and her experience.

I'll be waiting. Thank you. :yay:

http://palinforvp.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-sarah-palin.html


This blog is the result of about a month worth of research on potential Republican Vice-Presidential candidates for the 2008 election. I had been considerably less than thrilled with all of the early speculation, mostly swirling around second-tier presidential candidates, so I decided to see if there was anyone better suited for the job that I hadn't been hearing about. So, I developed the following profile for the perfect VP candidate (using Rudy Giuliani as my presumptive presidential candidate):

1) A energetic, young, fresh face who will energize the electorate
2) Not connected to the current administration
3) Pro-Life
4) Pro-Gun
5) A woman or minority to counter Hillary or Obama and put to rest the idea that America only elects white males

One of the first names I found that fit these qualifications was that of Sarah Palin, the recently elected Governor of Alaska. I knew that I had stumbled upon a fantastic candidate for national office, but I kept looking in the hope that I could find other potentially viable choices. However, after looking at every GOP governor, senator, and congressperson, I found that Palin had only become more appealing.

She was certainly energetic and young, having become governor at only 42 years of age. Watching her speches and campaign ads, I discovered that she was definitely a new kid of leader, coming off more as a spunky soccer-mom than a stuffy career politician. As for abortion, she was staunchly pro-life; and as a lifetime NRA member she was the most pro-gun candidate in the country. Furthermore, her experiences in rural Alaska provided a perfect complement to the big-city credentials of candidates like Giuliani. Her moderately libertarian positions on most other issues also match up perfectly to Giuliani.

There was thing about Palin that initially worried me - "lack of experience". She had only been elected governor in 2006, and her only previous experience was as a two terms as a city councilwoman and two more as mayor in Wasilla, AK (population 8,471 in 2005) followed up by a failed campaign for lieutenant governor and a brief stint on Alaska's Oil and Natural Gas Conservation Commission. This didn't seem very appealing at first, but then I took the time to look closer at Palin's history. What I had failed to realize was that she had habitually knocked of powerful incumbent opponents and was a quick learner on the job. In the 2006 gubernatorial election, she rolled over scandal-prone incumbent Frank Murkowski in the GOP primary, then went on to defeat former governor Tony Knowles in the general election - pretty impressive. Further back, she had knocked off an entrenched incumbent to become mayor of Wasilla, then developed a reputation as a hard-nosed, effective mayor. Her performance in Wasilla got her elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors and earned her the nickname "Sarah Barracuda".

In the end, I decided that Sarah Palin had actually compiled a rather astounding record of achievements in her 42 years, and was more than capable of making the jump to the national level. So now I ask you who you would rather have as your Vice-President. You could accept conventional wisdom and choose from the lineup of old men currently being bantered about, or you could choose an inspiring leader like Sarah Palin. As for me, I'm going with "Sarah Barracuda", a candidate who will help us win the election and then deliver solid results.

This is just a quick list. I'm at work so I can't really delve too deep at the moment. I will when I can, I promise. But right now there's this hippy kid loitering in my store and generally bugging the crap out of me, so I gotta deal with him at the moment.

[Hobgoblin]

Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy caught on hot mic on CNN talking about Palin.




Best quote?

Noonan: it's over. [...] The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bull**** about narratives -- Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.
Sorry, videos with harsh language arent allowed. Please remove the link.

Same for you hitmanyr2k.

[Hobodeluxe]

Ouch looks like the Enquirer (http://media.myfoxphilly.com/slideshows/palintabloids/1/imgLg/Enquirer-Full-Shot.jpg) has got a lead on an extra marital affair and is going to run with it.

[Malice]

Ouch looks like the Enquirer (http://media.myfoxphilly.com/slideshows/palintabloids/1/imgLg/Enquirer-Full-Shot.jpg) has got a lead on an extra marital affair and is going to run with it.

Ooo...that is a great reputable news surce I trust...wait...where is the conspiracy abut the moon landings?
How bout the bat-boy?

[Hobodeluxe]

Sorry, videos with harsh language arent allowed. Please remove the link.

Same for you hitmanyr2k.

why because it said b.s.?

ooh didn't know we were that picky. Have to watch myself. thanks for the warning. I've posted movie trailer clips with worse than that in it and never got a peep from a mod.

[danoyse]

Ooo...that is a great reputable news surce I trust...wait...where is the conspiracy abut the moon landings?
How bout the bat-boy?

I agree about them being a less-than-reputable news source, but they did break the whole John Edwards affair a few weeks ago.

[Hobodeluxe]

Ooo...that is a great reputable news surce I trust...wait...where is the conspiracy abut the moon landings?
How bout the bat-boy?

That's what John Edwards said.

[danoyse]

why because it said b.s.?

ooh didn't know we were that picky. Have to watch myself. thanks for the warning. I've posted movie trailer clips with worse than that in it and never got a peep from a mod.

Videos with inappropriate language are not allowed. Period.

[hitmanyr2k]

Sorry, videos with harsh language arent allowed. Please remove the link.

Same for you hitmanyr2k.


This is so stupid lol. I responded to the post genius. I didn't post it. And I've seen and heard much worse clips posted on SHH than that. Like I said in the PM, don't waste my time with posts like this.

[Marx]

That's what John Edwards said.

The problem with the National Enquirer story is that they ran it based solely on rumor, and not fact. (The fact that it turned out to be true, doesn't change how they approached the story.) That said, is this story another based on rumor? Or is it actually grounded in fact?

[Hobgoblin]

why because it said b.s.?

ooh didn't know we were that picky. Have to watch myself. thanks for the warning. I've posted movie trailer clips with worse than that in it and never got a peep from a mod.

If thats true, than they missed it. It doesnt make it ok.

[Hobodeluxe]

The problem with the National Enquirer story is that they ran it based solely on rumor, and not fact. (The fact that it turned out to be true, doesn't change how they approached the story.) That said, is this story another based on rumor? Or is it actually grounded in fact?

haven't read the whole article yet. I'll have to grab one at the supermarket tomorrow. I'm guessing she's made a lot of enemies up there. She seems to be the type to be vindictive and cuthroat. A Barracuda if you will.

this just shows how poorly McCain's managerial skills are. How rash his judgment is. How he makes spurious and not well thought out decisions and listens to the wrong people. No way she was properly vetted. McCain said "the people of Alaska vetted her" he met her once and they were soulmates. so you make the call. well thought out or reckless?

[ShadowBoxing]

This is just a quick list.
That list went


She beat people to win her election
Her name is Sarah Barracuda
She's perdy.

[Marx]

haven't read the whole article yet. I'll have to grab one at the supermarket tomorrow. I'm guessing she's made a lot of enemies up there. She seems to be the type to be vindictive and cuthroat. A Barracuda if you will.

this just shows how poorly McCain's managerial skills are. How rash his judgment is. How he makes spurious and not well thought out decisions and listens to the wrong people. No way she was properly vetted. McCain said "the people of Alaska vetted her" he met her once and they were soulmates. so you make the call. well thought out or reckless?

I did hear that one of her nicknames is 'Sarah Baracuda.'

[danoyse]

I found this interesting to those that say he never thought about picking Palin until Clinton got snubbed:

mccain-palin.com was registed JANUARY 29th, 2008

My brother in law contracted me that he knows this was registed by mccain


Was it the only name registered? Is it possible they registered mccain with other possible VP candidates, just to have the doman names set?

It just doesn't make sense that they are so unprepared for everything that's happened in the past week if they were making these plans all the way back in January.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Has it struck anyone else that so far, this entire convention is like...totally HINGED on Sarah Palin? She might as well be running for POTUS. :whatever:

[danoyse]

CNN actually has a countdown clock up for her speech. I don't even think they did that for Obama.

[Malice]

Was it the only name registered? Is it possible they registered mccain with other possible VP candidates, just to have the doman names set?

It just doesn't make sense that they are so unprepared for everything that's happened in the past week if they were making these plans all the way back in January.

Maybe they simply didnt care...

[Matt]

CNN actually has a countdown clock up for her speech. I don't even think they did that for Obama.

Palin's speech is in many ways more important than Obama's. Granted, it does not contain the same historical significance, but it does in many ways decide this election . If Palin screws this up...this election is over. 120 % over, as in Obama can start picking out curtains for the White House over. Palin needs to hit it big here tonight. Otherwise John McCain will be looking at becoming the new Bob Dole.

On a side note...Romney is a pretty damn good speaker. And he looks just like Bruce Campbell. :o

[Tron5000]

Was it the only name registered? Is it possible they registered mccain with other possible VP candidates, just to have the doman names set?

It just doesn't make sense that they are so unprepared for everything that's happened in the past week if they were making these plans all the way back in January.

First time they met was in February. Might wanna check your stats on that one.

[Lightning Strykez!]

CNN actually has a countdown clock up for her speech. I don't even think they did that for Obama.

Well, for all that buildup let's hope she's not a total bust. :oldrazz:

[Tron5000]

CNN actually has a countdown clock up for her speech. I don't even think they did that for Obama.

They didn't have to. The skies opened up, a light shone upon us, and God told me when Obama was going to speak. Didn't need CNN for that one.

[Malice]

First time they met was in February. Might wanna check your stats on that one.

A $10 investment, even before the meeting is not a problem.

I looked, mccain-ridge was registered in February...

[ShadowBoxing]

CNN actually has a countdown clock up for her speech. I don't even think they did that for Obama.It's a death clock.

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's a death clock.

:lmao:

[danoyse]

First time they met was in February. Might wanna check your stats on that one.

I'm not talking about when they met. We were talking about McCain having the domain name mccain-palin registered in January. Which now that you mention it, would be before McCain and Palin met.

Might want to read through a few posts before responding. :cwink:

[Matt]

McCain should really get Romney to do rapid response in regards to Palin's experience. He hit that one out of the park when asked about it on CNN following his speech.

[Malice]

I'm not talking about when they met. We were talking about McCain having the domain name mccain-palin registered in January. Which now that you mention it, would be before McCain and Palin met.

Might want to read through a few posts before responding. :cwink:

No I am saying, if he was investigating her, they didnt even have to have met yet. His staff culd have registered it before they even talked.

[Überlibran]

I wouldn't downplay expectations for Palin's speech. From what I hear she's a good orator and able to connect with the audience well. I'm sure her speech will be pretty good.

[Franklin Richards]

She sounds like an extra from Hairspray. How can it not sound like a mom screaming at her kids at a sporting event?


"Let's GO JOEY!"


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[danoyse]

No I am saying, if he was investigating her, they didnt even have to have met yet. His staff culd have registered it before they even talked.

Oh, that part I get completely. I was just clearing up some confusion when Tron posted that Palin and McCain hadn't met until February.

I figured it was possible McCain's staff started registering domain names for any possible running mates. I'm just amazing that if they were vetting Palin back then, they were so unprepared for everything that happened this week.

[Malice]

Oh, that part I get completely. I was just clearing up some confusion when Tron posted that Palin and McCain hadn't met until February.

I figured it was possible McCain's staff started registering domain names for any possible running mates. I'm just amazing that if they were vetting Palin back then, they were so unprepared for everything that happened this week.

My point on the whole vetting issue is this.
Why bother examining it? Its pointless....

Whoes to say, they knew all this and said it was acceptable...and we can use it to our advantage in time.

[danoyse]

My point on the whole vetting issue is this.
Why bother examining it? Its pointless....

Whoes to say, they knew all this and said it was acceptable...and we can use it to our advantage in time.

Well, it's because her pick was a surprise. No one really knows her, so the media is going fall over themselves trying to find out everything about her. And as we can see, there's been a lot of stuff to find, and the reaction hasn't been an overwhelming approval of their choice. Quite the opposite, it's left a lot of the pundits scratching their heads over it and it's got the media in a frenzy. It can't be what they wanted...shouldn't they have been more prepared?

The pick means everything. This is the person a heartbeat away from the presidency. The way they've reacted to everything this week, it looks like they picked her name out of hat. It doesn't make them look good at all.

[ShadowBoxing]

I wouldn't downplay expectations for Palin's speech. From what I hear she's a good orator and able to connect with the audience well. I'm sure her speech will be pretty good.
I doubt the speech will make or break her. It's going to be very well scripted and very well reviewed. She won't make any gaffs assuming she stays on script.

[Comicfilmer]

The debates will likely be the first we see of the real Sarah Palin.

[danoyse]

I doubt the speech will make or break her. It's going to be very well scripted and very well reviewed. She won't make any gaffs assuming she stays on script.

I've read some of the excerpts...not very impressed. Then again, hearing her speak it might change my mind.

[Comicfilmer]

If you can suffer her voice, that is, without your ears bleeding. lol I kid, of course.

[ShadowBoxing]

I've read some of the excerpts
Weally?:wow:
...not very impressed. Then again, hearing her speak it might change my mind.
As I say, what's she gonna do. Tout how "experienced" she is? The only way she can give an honest feel for herself to the American people is in a debate which sucks big time for her.

[danoyse]

Weally?:wow:

Yeah, they released parts of it to the press earlier tonight.

As I say, what's she gonna do. Tout how "experienced" she is? The only way she can give an honest feel for herself to the American people is in a debate which sucks big time for her.

The bits I read were about her small-town stuff, her hockey mom stuff, and about McCain being the "change" person. Nothing earth shattering.

At least from here it doesn't look that way. We have yet to hear her speak.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Is she on now? I am working on a paper, but I can turn on the set if she's on for a minute.

[Malice]

Is she on now? I am working on a paper, but I can turn on the set if she's on for a minute.

Turn it on.....

[danoyse]

Is she on now? I am working on a paper, but I can turn on the set if she's on for a minute.

No, Rudy is still rambling on...

[SentinelMind]

"Next time, call John McCain"

Zinng...

[jaguarr]

I thought Palin did an acceptable job with her speech. It wasn't stunning by any means. Her pauses for applause sometimes got a bit awkward. She did a good job of parroting back the talking points they wrote for her and delivering the little jabs and cheap shots and invoking all the emotional triggers littered throughout the speech. Unfortunately, the speech itself was fluff and didn't talk at ALL about what the Republicans do to take care of these problems that face our country, just that they will in a sort of vague way. It was a lot of "Rah! Rah!" for McCain and "Obama bad! Rarrrr!", and really didn't give a good idea of who Sarah Palin is. I can't see it really swaying independent and moderate undecided voters, to be honest. It just wasn't that compelling either in composition or delivery. It was solid but not earth-shattering. I'd give it a B-.

Something occurred to me about Palin this afternoon while mowing the lawn, though. The McCain campaign came out today in force, barking orders at the press not to bring up the vetting process or Palin's experience or record anymore, which was sort of odd. But it kind of tied into McCain's choice of Palin in the first place with a unifying message and that message is "Do NOT question my judgment. Ever! I am John McCain, dammit!" I'm starting to see this more and more out of him, actually. The Maverick is getting a bit of an ego. Starting to believe his own hype, or perhaps trying to live up to it? In that respect, Palin is absolutely perfect for him. She's a Washington outsider who doesn't know the system and doesn't know anybody, so she'll HAVE to defer to McCain's judgment and be his "yes person". She doesn't know enough to differ with him. She'll be his protoge', which strokes his ego even more. I'm becoming more and more concerned about McCain as a President the more I think about all this.

jag

[Exploding Boy]

She sounds like an extra from Hairspray. How can it not sound like a mom screaming at her kids at a sporting event?


"Let's GO JOEY!"


:thing: :doom: :thing:
Except for that all of her kids have the weirdest names

[lazur]

I thought Palin did an acceptable job with her speech. It wasn't stunning by any means. Her pauses for applause sometimes got a bit awkward. She did a good job of parroting back the talking points they wrote for her and delivering the little jabs and cheap shots and invoking all the emotional triggers littered throughout the speech. Unfortunately, the speech itself was fluff and didn't talk at ALL about what the Republicans do to take care of these problems that face our country, just that they will in a sort of vague way. It was a lot of "Rah! Rah!" for McCain and "Obama bad! Rarrrr!", and really didn't give a good idea of who Sarah Palin is. I can't see it really swaying independent and moderate undecided voters, to be honest. It just wasn't that compelling either in composition or delivery. It was solid but not earth-shattering. I'd give it a B-.

Hmm, I give it a solid A. I wasn't looking as much at the 'delivery' as I was at the content. But I find it odd, I guess, that you would describe her speech as exactly what Obama's speeches are - talking points 'they' wrote...

After all, you do realize that ALL politicians have speech writers, right? So why would you point that out about *this* particular politician, I wonder?

Just curious...

I would point to your objectivity, but I'm not quite sure it would do any good at this point. What you call 'little jabs' and 'cheap shots' were grounded in fact. She wasn't insulting or negative. She was factual.

She did absolutely nothing to address the media frenzy, or shall I say the other side's 'talking points' on questions of her character, and I actually commend her for that. It means that she's a mature politician, accustomed and yet unphased by the 'attention' it brings. I also appreciated her message of unity as a nation. After all, we live in a dangerous world. Something we all seemed to have forgotten until Russia reminded us...

She was confident and she spoke with authority and humility. She was exactly what I would have wanted to see from an American politician, all gender aside. (Despite the annoying, yet tolerable, 'ack' voice.)

Something occurred to me about Palin this afternoon while mowing the lawn, though. The McCain campaign came out today in force, barking orders at the press not to bring up the vetting process or Palin's experience or record anymore, which was sort of odd.

So you're saying that this 'occurred' (like magically) to you while you were mowing the lawn, or that you recalled remembering things while mowing the lawn that led you to that conclusion? I assume the latter. If so, I'd love to see some evidence of this...

But it kind of tied into McCain's choice of Palin in the first place with a unifying message and that message is "Do NOT question my judgment. Ever! I am John McCain, dammit!" I'm starting to see this more and more out of him, actually. The Maverick is getting a bit of an ego. Starting to believe his own hype, or perhaps trying to live up to it?

So wait a minute. Because you believe McCain barked orders at the media to shut up about 'the vetting process or Palin's experience or record,' you also believe, or want us to believe, that it makes him egotistical? You do understand that he's running a campaign, right? He doesn't have time to deal with accusations, about which there is ZERO evidence, that he didn't vet his VP choice. Speaking of which - where in the Constitution or anywhere else does it state that a Presidential candidate HAS to vet someone enough to convince the media? NO WHERE. Seriously, do you really think Obama vetted Biden? He was the easiest choice to make!

That said, I didn't see anyone from the McCain campaign 'order' the media to shut up. Perhaps you're comfortable using language of that nature to distort the real turn of events, but I prefer to keep the drama out of it. I respect you, dude, but 'barking orders'? C'mon...

In that respect, Palin is absolutely perfect for him. She's a Washington outsider who doesn't know the system and doesn't know anybody, so she'll HAVE to defer to McCain's judgment and be his "yes person". She doesn't know enough to differ with him. She'll be his protoge', which strokes his ego even more. I'm becoming more and more concerned about McCain as a President the more I think about all this.

jag

Doesn't know the system? Doesn't know anybody? You know what? I'm kinda glad about that, actually, if it's true. But you don't know that, and I don't know that, because there's no way either of us could know that ... at least without some research, and I'm almost (but not quite) sure you would be unwilling to do that research.

Considering that she was in command of the largest energy producing state in the union, which by job requirement gave her ties to foreign oil heads (she knows people in Saudi and other oil producing nations), and she's maintained an 80% approval rating, and that we are now facing an energy crisis in this country, I'm not sure his choice was all that bad. She's on the forefront of constructing the largest natural gas pipeline ever to move the country closer to energy independence.

Sometimes I feel like I'm spitting out talking points myself, but you know what? So far, I'm impressed, and I want to see more from her. I look forward to seeing her debate.

[Franklin Richards]

Oh wow. I just read that she's a Pentecostal.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/986m37.jpg


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[StorminNorman]

Palin hit it out of the park. She did everything she needed to do and attacked Obama with a smile. Palin needed a good night - she got a great one.

[Excel]

She did what Hillary did, and we know how that worked out..

That Susan women, a older, blonde, alcoholic-esque commentator on Fox, put it perfectly. It was very anti Obama, so it worked VERY well with Republicans. It worked VERY well in the hall. But the lack of overall substance is what will make the undecideds continue to question her.

The argument cant be "Palin expirience vs. Obama's". Obama will win that, no so much for expirience but because he has proven the inexpirience argument doesnt work against him, no matter how hard it is hit against him. The mocking tone comes off as condescending and arrogant, and then when it followed by attacks on how Obama (the most showcased defender of Bristol Palin in her battle with the media) is elitist...it just just makes what she says come off as less genuine. Saying things like "community organizers do nothing" and than claiming to be a small town girl. It makes them look hypocritical.

So, as I said before, it is easy to see why Republicans loved her speech. The PROBLEM IS, however, like that women Susan said, it had very questionable appeal to undecided voters due to the overall lack of substance.

[StorminNorman]

Susan Estrich is a far left political analyst - and she questioned Palin's speech? Shocker!

I believe you will see very good reactions from the average voter tomorrow for Palin's speech. She delivered a speech with amazing passion and confidence which is EXACTLY what she needed.

[JLBats]

I like you, Norman, and think you're fairly level-headed, but I have to wonder whether you would've had a negative opinion of the speech even if Palin went up and vomitted pea soup at the audience for 20 minutes.

To be fair, I think a lot of opinions are pre-decided around here. But come on. Can you please give us an explanation for the points she hit that you liked beyond "passion"? I seem to be seeing so much approval of her by the hard right for "passion", and for being a "woman women can get excited about", but I haven't been seeing a lot of SUBSTANCE since all the scandal broke out, you know?

I blame the left too, don't worry. All the scandal-shrieking hasn't helped one bit.

It just seems like it's all very low quality one-upsmanship and a very lowest common denominator debate seems to be swirling around her... is there no way to like elevate the level of political theater here?

[StorminNorman]

I like you, Norman, and think you're fairly level-headed, but I have to wonder whether you would've had a negative opinion of the speech even if Palin went up and vomitted pea soup at the audience for 20 minutes.

To be fair, I think a lot of opinions are pre-decided around here. But come on. Can you please give us an explanation for the points she hit that you liked beyond "passion"? I seem to be seeing so much approval of her by the hard right for "passion", and for being a "woman women can get excited about", but I haven't been seeing a lot of SUBSTANCE since all the scandal broke out, you know?

I blame the left too, don't worry. All the scandal-shrieking hasn't helped one bit.

It just seems like it's all very low quality one-upsmanship and a very lowest common denominator debate seems to be swirling around her... is there no way to like elevate the level of political theater here?

Does my own thoughts cloud my views? Probably - its only natural. I truly believe the speech was exactly what Palin needed to do - it introduced herself, she looked like a politician that deserved to be on a political prime time stage, and she DID address key campaign points - mainly on energy.

Again, I really believe this is a speech that is going to positively impact Palin's image with voters.

[Excel]

Susan Estrich is a far left political analyst - and she questioned Palin's speech? Shocker!

I believe you will see very good reactions from the average voter tomorrow for Palin's speech. She delivered a speech with amazing passion and confidence which is EXACTLY what she needed.

Passion and confidence dont mean anything :huh: Its the words she says :huh: and she didnt talk about the economy, but she did make fun of Obama and belittle his acomplishments :huh:

[JLBats]

Ugh... I just hate that the debate is over whether or not it'll have an impact on voters. It seems like so much of the talk about the scandals has been people fighting over whether or not it'll effect her image to the general public. Like, it seems like such a shallow way to look at things.

What I want to know is, beyond all the posturing and all the opinions we've already formed(put those away), at this moment, after THAT speech, how do you, Norman, actually feel about the thought of Sarah Palin possibly being the President of the United States if something happens to John McCain?

[Franklin Richards]

It's all just a song and dance to make people forget the last 8 years. And the sad thing is I think it's working.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[StorminNorman]

Passion and confidence dont mean anything :huh: Its the words she says :huh: and she didnt talk about the economy, but she did make fun of Obama and belittle his acomplishments :huh:

She didn't talk about the economy?

You should probably reread the speech.

[StorminNorman]

Ugh... I just hate that the debate is over whether or not it'll have an impact on voters. It seems like so much of the talk about the scandals has been people fighting over whether or not it'll effect her image to the general public. Like, it seems like such a shallow way to look at things.

What I want to know is, beyond all the posturing and all the opinions we've already formed(put those away), at this moment, after THAT speech, how do you, Norman, actually feel about the thought of Sarah Palin possibly being the President of the United States if something happens to John McCain?

Would Palin by my choice should I have the option of picking one of any politician? No.

Would I pick Palin over Obama? Yes.

Would I pick Palin over Biden? Yes.

Would I pick Palin over McCain? Yes.

[Excel]

She didn't talk about the economy?

You should probably reread the speech.

I have. Its on RCP. Theres little substance if any. Theres no vision, no direction.

[SentinelMind]

I think Palin did what was required, she had to introduce herself as someone who's likeable, opinionated, and someone who has to be taken seriously. If she had gotten up there timid and just said nice, pleasant things about McCain without touching the opposition, it would have fallen flat. She had to reinforce McCain's decision to choose her, ....she had to come strong, she had to hit back for all the attacks she's faced from media and the left.

Zingers...

"Obama and Biden say they'll fight for you....but there's only one man in this campaign who has ever fought for you"

"Make change to help make careers....and use careers to help make change"

[JLBats]

Would Palin by my choice should I have the option of picking one of any politician? No.

Would I pick Palin over Obama? Yes.

Would I pick Palin over Biden? Yes.

Would I pick Palin over McCain? Yes.

Thank you.

I hate how much like a board game this all is.
I think sometimes in all the talk of "presenting Obama as a normal, non-elitist guy" or "positioning McCain as the experienced candidate who can win this war" we're losing sight of the fact that this is genuinely just picking somebody who is going to run a country and effect the lives of billions.

It is not, to say the least, a deadlocked game of chess.

[Excel]

Zingers...

"Obama and Biden say they'll fight for you....but there's only one man in this campaign who has ever fought for you"

"Make change to help make careers....and use careers to help make change"

Being a pow means hell be a good President?? :huh:

Obama has done that as well :huh:

[SentinelMind]

First of all,

Palin did emphasize a vision for America...energy independence, investing in nuclear energy, drilling in Alaska, keeping taxes low.

Most of these are 'old' conservative platform planks, but she did articulate her vision for America.

[jaguarr]

Hmm, I give it a solid A. I wasn't looking as much at the 'delivery' as I was at the content. But I find it odd, I guess, that you would describe her speech as exactly what Obama's speeches are - talking points 'they' wrote...

After all, you do realize that ALL politicians have speech writers, right? So why would you point that out about *this* particular politician, I wonder?

Just curious...

I know you don't believe that Obama writes his own speeches (or at least the lion's share of what he says), so there's no point in even debating this with you. As for content, do you mean the flat out lies she told about Obama's legislative record, or all the half-truths she said about John McCain. I especially like the part where she bashed Obama's energy plan. It doesn't really go with this press release she put out in early August:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Palin_praisesObama.html

August 05, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/index.cfm/category/BarackObama) Palin praises...Obama?

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin -- occasionally mentioned as a McCain vice presidential prospect -- has put out a press release (http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=1384) praising Obama's energy plan.
Alaska energy politics seem to trump national politics here, though it's also interesting to see a red(dish) state Republican so willing to associate herself with the Democratic nominee.

“I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska’s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs,” Palin says in the release. “The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs.”
More:
Governor Palin also acknowledged the Senator’s proposal to offer $1,000 rebates to those struggling with the high cost of energy.

“We in Alaska feel that crunch and are taking steps to address it right here at home,” Governor Palin said. “This is a tool that must be on the table to buy us time until our long-term energy plans can be put into place. We have already enjoyed the support of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and it is gratifying to see Senator Obama get on board.”
Hard to know what to make of the Stevens shout-out, but Alaska politics are another country.
Palin did question Obama's proposal to tax oil company profits.

Her speech was a lot of fear mongering, war mongering and negativity.


I would point to your objectivity, but I'm not quite sure it would do any good at this point. What you call 'little jabs' and 'cheap shots' were grounded in fact. She wasn't insulting or negative. She was factual.

She was negative. And no, she was not factual.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/


She did absolutely nothing to address the media frenzy, or shall I say the other side's 'talking points' on questions of her character, and I actually commend her for that. It means that she's a mature politician, accustomed and yet unphased by the 'attention' it brings. I also appreciated her message of unity as a nation. After all, we live in a dangerous world. Something we all seemed to have forgotten until Russia reminded us...

The Republicans cling to war and terror, because that's all they know. They didn't talk about anything tonight but that and how bad Obama is. They didn't talk about ANYTHING they plan to do to help this country. At all. It was all about Obama, war, terrorism, and McCain was a POW.


She was confident and she spoke with authority and humility. She was exactly what I would have wanted to see from an American politician, all gender aside. (Despite the annoying, yet tolerable, 'ack' voice.)

I didn't hear humility from her, but she was confident.




So you're saying that this 'occurred' (like magically) to you while you were mowing the lawn, or that you recalled remembering things while mowing the lawn that led you to that conclusion? I assume the latter. If so, I'd love to see some evidence of this...

Yes, I have magic thoughts, Mr. Snarky. :whatever:

There's a reason articles like this are being written, after all:

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html



http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/images/swampland_banner.jpg (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/) September 3, 2008 2:04

Angry Amateurs (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html)

Posted by Joe Klein | Comments (379) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html#comments) | Permalink (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html) | Trackbacks (0) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html#trackbacks) | Email This (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html#)
The story of the day out here in Minneapolis is the McCain campaign's war (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100587.html?hpid=topnews)against the press. This has been building for some time. Those of us who have criticized the candidate--and especially those of us who enjoyed good relations with McCain in the past--have been subject to off-the-record browbeating and attempted bullying all year. But things have gotten much worse in recent days: there was McCain's rude, bizarre interview (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1836909,00.html) with Time Magazine last week. Yesterday, McCain refused to an interview with Larry King, for God's sake, because Campbell Brown had been caught in the commission of journalism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI) on CNN the night before, asking McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds what decisions Sarah Palin had made as commander-in-chief of the Alaska national guard. (There was an answer that the unprepared Bounds didn't have: she had deployed them to fight fires.)
So what's going on here? Two things. McCain is just plain angry at us. By the evidence presented in the utterly revealing Time interview, he's ballistic. This is a politician who needs to see himself as the man on the white horse, boldly traversing a muddy field...any intimations that he's gotten muddied in the process, or has decided to throw mud, are intolerable.
The second thing is more insidious: Steve Schmidt has decided, for tactical reasons, to slime the press. He wants the public to believe that there is an unfair--sexist (you gotta love it)--personal assault going on against Palin and her family. This is a smokescreen, intended to divert attention from the very real and responsible vetting that is taking place in the media--about the substance of Palin's record as mayor and governor. Sure, there are a few outliers--and the tabloid press--who have fixed on baby stories. That was inevitable....the flip side of the personal stories that the McCain team thought would work to their advantage--Palin's moose-hunting and wolf-shooting, and her admirable decision to have a Down Syndrome baby. And yes, when we all fix on the same story, whether it's a hurricane or a little-known politician, a zoo ensues. But the media coverage of the Palin story has been well within the bounds of responsibility. Schmidt is trying to make it seem otherwise, a desperate tactic.
There is a tendency in the media to kick ourselves, cringe and withdraw, when we are criticized. But I hope my colleagues stand strong in this case: it is important for the public to know that Palin raised taxes as governor, supported the Bridge to Nowhere before she opposed it, pursued pork-barrel projects as mayor, tried to ban books at the local library and thinks the war in Iraq is "a task from God." The attempts by the McCain campaign to bully us into not reporting such things are not only stupidly aggressive, but unprofessional in the extreme.


So wait a minute. Because you believe McCain barked orders at the media to shut up about 'the vetting process or Palin's experience or record,' you also believe, or want us to believe, that it makes him egotistical? You do understand that he's running a campaign, right? He doesn't have time to deal with accusations, about which there is ZERO evidence, that he didn't vet his VP choice. Speaking of which - where in the Constitution or anywhere else does it state that a Presidential candidate HAS to vet someone enough to convince the media? NO WHERE. Seriously, do you really think Obama vetted Biden? He was the easiest choice to make!

His campaign has barked orders at the media.


That said, I didn't see anyone from the McCain campaign 'order' the media to shut up. Perhaps you're comfortable using language of that nature to distort the real turn of events, but I prefer to keep the drama out of it. I respect you, dude, but 'barking orders'? C'mon...


:)



Doesn't know the system? Doesn't know anybody? You know what? I'm kinda glad about that, actually, if it's true. But you don't know that, and I don't know that, because there's no way either of us could know that ... at least without some research, and I'm almost (but not quite) sure you would be unwilling to do that research.

She's a total newb to Washington politics. How effective is she really going to be? Especially with her record of pork belly spending and such:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/


Considering that she was in command of the largest energy producing state in the union, which by job requirement gave her ties to foreign oil heads (she knows people in Saudi and other oil producing nations), and she's maintained an 80% approval rating, and that we are now facing an energy crisis in this country, I'm not sure his choice was all that bad. She's on the forefront of constructing the largest natural gas pipeline ever to move the country closer to energy independence.

I still like how she praised Obama's energy plan in early August but criticized it tonight. She sounds confused.


Sometimes I feel like I'm spitting out talking points myself, but you know what? So far, I'm impressed, and I want to see more from her. I look forward to seeing her debate.

I know just how you feel. ;)

jag

[JLBats]

First of all,

Palin did emphasize a vision for America...energy independence, investing in nuclear energy, drilling in Alaska, keeping taxes low.

Most of these are 'old' conservative platform planks, but she did articulate her vision for America.

Not saying SHE didn't.

I'm saying I hate the quality of debate surrounding it.

[Franklin Richards]

I finally found out her level of education. She has a BA, Communications/Journalism, University of Idaho, 1987.

Oh boy.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

:rolleyes:

[Franklin Richards]

Come on! Don't you want the Leader of the Free World to at least have a Masters. Hell I boozed and smoked my way to a B.S. in Theatre and Communications.

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[StorminNorman]

Come on! Don't you want the Leader of the Free World to at least have a Masters. Hell I boozed and smoked my way to a B.S. in Theatre and Communications.

:doom: :doom: :doom:

Bush has multiple degrees from multiple Ivy League schools.

Truman didn't have a college degree.

[Excel]

You dont take classes in college to become the President. They need a degree, but I dont think its that big of a deal. I think only have ba from where she went might help her inthe "hes elitist, im not" argument against Obama as he went to Columbia and Harvard.

[Franklin Richards]

Bush has multiple degrees from multiple Ivy League schools.

Truman didn't have a college degree.

Come on. You wouldn't hire her for a teaching gig at a Junior College.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

Come on. You wouldn't hire her for a teaching gig at a Junior College.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

And if she was running for Chief Educator, that may be relevant :huh:

[Franklin Richards]

You dont take classes in college to become the President. They need a degree, but I dont think its that big of a deal. I think only have ba from where she went might help her inthe "hes elitist, im not" argument against Obama as he went to Columbia and Harvart.

Yeah. The Constitution is kinda hard. The President should really take a few classes. And I want the President to be an Elitist. You think I want the guy who runs the Quick Stop running the country?

Come on!!!


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Excel]

:lmao:

[ShadowBoxing]

Truman didn't have a college degree.Truman lived in a simpler time, today you need a Masters to get an Administrative Assisstant position (that's several places under a manager) in a Federal agency. I should know...I've been trying to get one. Hell, my cousin, who has a master's works for the State Department and is only make fifty grand a year.

[StorminNorman]

Truman lived in a simpler time, today you need a Masters to get an Administrative Assisstant position (that's several places under a manager) in a Federal agency. I should know...I've been trying to get one. Hell, my cousin, who has a master's works for the State Department and is only make fifty grand a year.

And I would argue that such requirements prevent people who would be better at their position than those simply academically qualified.

There is no class that prepares you to be President.

[Phoenix2088]

Why do people keep eating up that McCain was a former POW? Do people not realize that POW's more than often have severe mental issues.

[Cmill216]

There is no class that prepares you to be President.

Introduction to Political Experience....Honors

[jaguarr]

Why do people keep eating up that McCain was a former POW? Do people not realize that POW's more than often have severe mental issues.

:funny:

jag

[Franklin Richards]

History. Constitutional Law. Economics. Geography.


There's gotta be more.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

Introduction to Political Experience....Honors

Taught by former President Martin Sheen.

[JackMercy]

Zingers...

"Obama and Biden say they'll fight for you....but there's only one man in this campaign who has ever fought for you"


So Biden's Violence Against Women Act doesn't count?

Oh, wait, I forgot, we're talking about war experience only...

[ShadowBoxing]

There is no class that prepares you to be President.
Technically there is, and I took it, it was called "Presidential Politics", "Public Policy and Administration", "The Executive", "Foreign Policy and Implementation", "Political Rhetoric" and "Law, Justice and State"...all those classes technically prepared me for what could be a political position. Buuut here is where that gets fishy...I guess you could say I really have no experience because books can paint a false picture and hands on experience is needed to fill in the gaps. I happen to know, for a fact, that Palin has no foreign policy experience in an important foreign policy office, and is now getting schooled in it right now...but she's just going to be like me...a person with tons of book knowledge and talking points, but no real experience.

The sad thing for this woman is her national stage is not something she brought about herself. She's there as McCain's mouthpiece. Months ago she praised Barrack Obama, who knows what kind of Politician she would've become on her own, had she been allowed to continue her political career and let her own accomplishments take her where they may. Instead she's just going to be fed a party line, and is going to go into a world viewing it through McCain's eyes...not her own.

[StrainedEyes]

Everyone respects what McCain went through. All of the Dems give him respect for it. I don't know why it's still being used as a major political leg for him. Hopefully after the RNC is over, they'll move on to more pertinent topics.

[SentinelMind]

So Biden's Violence Against Women Act doesn't count?

Oh, wait, I forgot, we're talking about war experience only...

It was a good one-liner, you have to admit that.

What did Violence Against Act Woman Act accomplish exactly? I'm pretty sure it was illegal to violently assault women before this bill got signed into law.

[StrainedEyes]

It was a good one-liner, you have to admit that.

What did Violence Against Act Woman Act accomplish exactly? I'm pretty sure it was illegal to violently assault women before this bill got signed into law.

"It provided $1.6 billion to enhance investigation and prosecution of the violent crime perpetrated against women, increased pre-trial detention of the accused, provided for automatic and mandatory restitution of those convicted, and allowed civil redress in cases prosecutors chose to leave unprosecuted."

wikipedia is a click away.

[jaguarr]

It was a good one-liner, you have to admit that.

What did Violence Against Act Woman Act accomplish exactly? I'm pretty sure it was illegal to violently assault women before this bill got signed into law.

Dude, Biden has done more for women's rights in his career than anyone in the Senate. His record absolutely reflects that.

jag

[Metamorpho1977]

I half expect if John McCain gets elected to see planes flying over ho chi minh city dropping flyers all over the city stating "IT'S BACK ON *****ES" I'M BACK FOR REVENGE.

[kainedamo]

EDIT.

I don't think Sarah did what she neeeded to do to get independents and bench sitters over to the republican side.

[Comicfilmer]

I don't know if it's been posted, but a letter from someone who has known Sarah Palin since 1992 has been publised online.

http://my2bucks.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/a-letter-from-someone-who-has-known-sarah-palin-since-1992/

Seems those "real responsibilities" Palin spoke of were too much for her to handle, even in podunk.

[Malice]

I thought this was a fantastic speech.
She had a sarcastic snarky theme, which I appreciated, but many will have a negative feel for.

[Darthphere]

Dude, Biden has done more for women's rights in his career than anyone in the Senate. His record absolutely reflects that.

jag

Biden loves the ladies.

[kainedamo]

I thought this was a fantastic speech.
She had a sarcastic snarky theme, which I appreciated, but many will have a negative feel for.

The sarcastic snarky theme wouldn't be so bad if she had something else to say. She didn't. She didn't talk about why she'd make a good VP or what needs to be fixed in the country.

The DNC overall was a lot more in-depth than the RNC has been so far.

[Darthphere]

Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking, wow, what was so special about that speech? I'm totally lost here.

[lazur]

Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking, wow, what was so special about that speech? I'm totally lost here.

Anyone who is predisposed to vote for Obama/Biden will have that reaction. Palin could have given the best speech anyone on the planet has ever heard/seen, and it would still had have zero impact on those who were already going to vote the dem ticket.

She wasn't out to sway you to change your mind to suddenly become a republican. She's after undecided and women voters who aren't already married to the idea of a suave, inexperienced President, nor to the idea of an experienced Washington insider. And she was quite effective at doing what she set out to do.

In terms of substance, the DNC had ZERO substance as well. Obama made a flowery speech full of promises, but with no record on which to convince anyone that he could actually do what he said he would do (some of which wasn't even truthful).

But I will say that after the RNC, I am no longer undecided. :)

[Darthphere]

Anyone who is predisposed to vote for Obama/Biden will have that reaction. Palin could have given the best speech anyone on the planet has ever heard/seen, and it would still had have zero impact on those who were already going to vote the dem ticket.

She wasn't out to sway you to change your mind to suddenly become a republican. She's after undecided and women voters who aren't already married to the idea of a suave, inexperienced President, nor to the idea of an experienced Washington insider. And she was quite effective at doing what she set out to do.

In terms of substance, the DNC had ZERO substance as well. Obama made a flowery speech full of promises, but with no record on which to convince anyone that he could actually do what he said he would do (some of which wasn't even truthful).

But I will say that after the RNC, I am no longer undecided. :)

What a terrible and idiotic assumption to make.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Palin is just there for eye candy and the women votes. She really IMO does not know what she is doing and her speech proved that. Over at least proved she is not ready to be VP yet alone President if McCain dies while in office. I think she was put there just because they need the women votes and she takes away from McCain and how in touch he is with the peoples needs. I mean its only been a week and so far she has had more scandals and more and more things being revealed about her that shows she does not know how to run or help run this country and that she is really stretching the truth about her past. I would have had more respect for her if she came out and turned down the nomination but spoke highly about McCain and the party. I think he she needs to get her house in order and personal life in order before taking this job. I mean they keep saying her daughter wants to marry her boyfriend but does he want to marry her? I mean I feel like he was pressured into this because of her getting the VP nomination and even if he ask her to marry him who says they will make it to the altar. As I said before she has to much going on yet alone is not fit to be VP.

[Comicfilmer]

But I will say that after the RNC, I am no longer undecided. :)

Then you weren't undecided before the RNC. Either that or empty rhetoric is more than enough to sway you, in which case, you're the reason why our founding fathers found the Electoral College necessary.

I can sum up Mrs. Palin's speech:

"I'm a hockey mom."

"I was on PTA."

"My baby has Down Syndrome."

"I have been with my husband since high School...and he is a snowmobile racer."

"I was against the bridge to nowhere (after I was for it)."

*INSERT SHOT OF PALIN'S KIDS*

"Obama was a 'community organizer' while I was mayor of a small town...obviously I had more responsibility than him...Chicago is only the nation's third most populous city."

*INSERT FIST POUNDING AND FINGER POINTING*

"John McCain was a POW."

*JOHN MCCAIN COMES OUT, LOOKING OLD AS DIRT*

"Sarah Palin, folks! What a gal!"