The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread) [Archive] - Page 14

Malice

09-04-2008, 08:07 AM

Palin is just there for eye candy and the women votes. She really IMO does not know what she is doing and her speech proved that. Over at least proved she is not ready to be VP yet alone President if McCain dies while in office. I think she was put there just because they need the women votes and she takes away from McCain and how in touch he is with the peoples needs. I mean its only been a week and so far she has had more scandals and more and more things being revealed about her that shows she does not know how to run or help run this country and that she is really stretching the truth about her past. I would have had more respect for her if she came out and turned down the nomination but spoke highly about McCain and the party. I think he she needs to get her house in order and personal life in order before taking this job. I mean they keep saying her daughter wants to marry her boyfriend but does he want to marry her? I mean I feel like he was pressured into this because of her getting the VP nomination and even if he ask her to marry him who says they will make it to the altar. As I said before she has to much going on yet alone is not fit to be VP.

Are you so short sighted?
She has more scandles because the other side was blindsided by this. That is not a crack against the Dems...just truth..
The dug up alot in 24 hours and wham...They only have 2 months to get votes...they have to get it out soon or it wont come out.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 08:14 AM

I thought this was a fantastic speech.
She had a sarcastic snarky theme, which I appreciated, but many will have a negative feel for.

You know, I have to agree with this. She definitely "brought it" last night--more than I expected. She's a charmer and of course, easy on the eyes. Those are all pluses for her. Plus, she's really, really feisty and her selection to the ticket underscores just how boring and humdrum a Romney or Pawlenty would have been. She has a round-the-way appeal to her, and I think that's great. The whole PTA/Hockey mom thing was very cool. She could've came out with a tray of cookies. :)

That said, she comes with a lot of negatives too. I was somewhat shocked by the forceful tone she employed with her attacks on Obama and Biden. Personally, I would've played a little nicer, considering that she's a Johnnie-Come-Lately. Some will interpret her attacks on the Dems as "Who does this little upstart think she is?" And she's opened herself WIDE OPEN to get the same treatment...she sent the message that she is ready for primetime. She better not fall apart when Biden rips her a new one.

Sadly, I don't think her speech did anything to sway independents or women. And her voice is extremely annoying. Those are my pros and cons from last night. Ehn....B-

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 08:19 AM

Noone EVER gives details in the Convention...
Biden and obama danced around themes and injustices...that is all they did...
Dont with the double-standard...

This is how its always been played...granted I wish they would have actual substance...

I disagree. I think the DNC faced the issues directly and brought a lot of substance.

While in the RNC, take the economy for example, they hardly talk about it. The main thing they talk about is security. It's typical fear mongering. Their message hasn't changed from four years ago.

SuperT

09-04-2008, 08:20 AM

Her speech did nothing to gain Independents, the people that will be a HUGE factor come November 4th. In fact, I think they are just about running in the opposite direction of this whole convention after seeing those displays from Romney, Guiliani, and Palin last night.

I'd be scared *****less!

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 08:21 AM

Anyone who is predisposed to vote for Obama/Biden will have that reaction.

You don't know Darthphere at all.

Darthphere

09-04-2008, 08:22 AM

LAWL! Kaine is for once, right.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 08:24 AM

You don't know Darthphere at all.

:lmao:

I was JUST getting ready to type something similar. What an unenlightened post. Word to the wise: Know your fellow posters before you level charges against them.

Darthphere

09-04-2008, 08:25 AM

Yes, and I'm on the record saying I didn't give a damn about Obama's speech as well.

danoyse

09-04-2008, 08:33 AM

You know, I have to agree with this. She definitely "brought it" last night--more than I expected. She's a charmer and of course, easy on the eyes. Those are all pluses for her. Plus, she's really, really feisty and her selection to the ticket underscores just how boring and humdrum a Romney or Pawlenty would have been. She has a round-the-way appeal to her, and I think that's great. The whole PTA/Hockey mom thing was very cool. She could've came out with a tray of cookies. :)

That said, she comes with a lot of negatives too. I was somewhat shocked by the forceful tone she employed with her attacks on Obama and Biden. Personally, I would've played a little nicer, considering that she's a Johnnie-Come-Lately. Some will interpret her attacks on the Dems as "Who does this little upstart think she is?" And she's opened herself WIDE OPEN to get the same treatment...she sent the message that she is ready for primetime. She better not fall apart when Biden rips her a new one.

Sadly, I don't think her speech did anything to sway independents or women. And her voice is extremely annoying. Those are my pros and cons from last night. Ehn....B-

I completely agree (even with the part about her annoying voice--that like an SNL peformer's dream). She absolutely brought it last night, and she the electrified her base. Did it electrify anyone else? That's left to be seen.

That being said, I also thought the tone was nasty. I think she succeeed in satisfying her base and enraging the Obama supporters so much that it's just going to get nastier from here, which is just going to turn people off.

It should be interesting...it's definitely on now.

Malice

09-04-2008, 08:34 AM

You know, I have to agree with this. She definitely "brought it" last night--more than I expected. She's a charmer and of course, easy on the eyes. Those are all pluses for her. Plus, she's really, really feisty and her selection to the ticket underscores just how boring and humdrum a Romney or Pawlenty would have been. She has a round-the-way appeal to her, and I think that's great. The whole PTA/Hockey mom thing was very cool. She could've came out with a tray of cookies. :)

That said, she comes with a lot of negatives too. I was somewhat shocked by the forceful tone she employed with her attacks on Obama and Biden. Personally, I would've played a little nicer, considering that she's a Johnnie-Come-Lately. Some will interpret her attacks on the Dems as "Who does this little upstart think she is?" And she's opened herself WIDE OPEN to get the same treatment...she sent the message that she is ready for primetime. She better not fall apart when Biden rips her a new one.

Sadly, I don't think her speech did anything to sway independents or women. And her voice is extremely annoying. Those are my pros and cons from last night. Ehn....B-

I agree...I was actually a little shocked at the amount of pokes at Obama...

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 08:39 AM

I agree...I was actually a little shocked at the amount of pokes at Obama...

How much do you want to bet she (or the campaign) will cry sexist when he pokes back?

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 08:40 AM

I completely agree (even with the part about her annoying voice--that like an SNL peformer's dream). She absolutely brought it last night, and she the electrified her base. Did it electrify anyone else? That's left to be seen.

That being said, I also thought the tone was nasty. I think she succeeed in satisfying her base and enraging the Obama supporters so much that it's just going to get nastier from here, which is just going to turn people off.

It should be interesting...it's definitely on now.

Yeah the kid gloves are off.

Actually they were never on as far as she's concerned.

Ahura Mazda

09-04-2008, 08:41 AM

What I do not understand is how she can attack Obama/Biden on experience whereas she has little to none.

Malice

09-04-2008, 08:41 AM

How much do you want to bet she (or the campaign) will cry sexist when he pokes back?

I will bet you she doesnt?
She doesnt strike me as that type of person.
She would SHIV you first.
:)

Malice

09-04-2008, 08:41 AM

Yeah the kid gloves are off.

Actually they were never on as far as she's concerned.

They werent on..
They railled her from the moment of the announcement.

kane9321

09-04-2008, 08:51 AM

After seeing her speech, she officially reminds me of someone I already know.

http://www.movieprop.com/V/dianafinal

:dry:

but diana was hawt....but she like eating rats:csad:

The Master

09-04-2008, 09:07 AM

How much do you want to bet she (or the campaign) will cry sexist when he pokes back?

I don't think she will, but the Republican party might. Heck, they were already *****ing and moaning sexism in response to the DEMs and media's reaction when she was announced as McCain's pick for VP.

kane9321

09-04-2008, 09:10 AM

she didnt talk about anything lastnite..just cheapshots about obama...if thats how you wanna play..lets play

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 09:13 AM

i will bet you she doesnt?
She doesnt strike me as that type of person.
She would shiv you first.
:)

SHIV? Color me stupid but what does that stand for? You can PM me if its something too crazy for public. :p

DACrowe

09-04-2008, 09:13 AM

Meh. I thought Palin's speech was decent or marginally good. It did not have much fire or passion, but was full of zingers and swipes at those who have come after her. I mean I find it somewhat hypocritical, for example, to criticize Obama and Biden for being part of the Washington elite, when she was there on the grace of John McCain, a Washington elite who was formerly until the last month or so the press's favorite Republican.

But she gave a decent speech. It appealed to the Republican base which was very happy at the convention and also I think played well with those who are on the fringe about her personality. I never had a problem with her personality, it is more her ideology and underqualifications. And while yes, being a mayor is more impressive than being a community organizer, being a state senator is also more impressive than being a mayor. So, I find that hard to follow.

I'd also like to say that the Republicans have yet to talk about the issues AT ALL at this convention. I have watched all the major speeches except for Fred Thompson (and I mean who watches Fred Thompson?) and the gist I get is: McCain is a Maverick (with a capital M), McCain was a POW, McCain is a war hero and thus a great leader, Palin is more prepared to be president than Obama because of "executive experience," Palin has a cute family that they can display like a trophy-but the media should not talk about, and they're both reformers and going to reform Washington.

Okay. Nice and vague. Nothing about the problems facing this country (well their current face, Mr. Bush actually says we have no problems, but that party 86ed him after his 8 minute speech never to be heard from as their voice again). Can I just say what exactly are they going to reform? Sure, McCain wants to get rid of pork-barrel spending which allows Congressional representatives to funnel money to their home state and get the Feds to flip the bills for anything from bridges-to-nowhere to mayors' own discretions (like the $1+ million of pork that Palin took as mayor).

But that seems to be it. What else are they going to reform? I'm just curious as that is the only thing McCain seems to be running on as a platform "I'm going to reform Washington," by taking what is an entirely Republican-based executive branch and mostly federal government and--continue to make it mostly Republican-based. What?

As for Palin. Yeah, there is a double standard in the media about a woman being asked if she can balance having five kids and being VP when that is never asked of men. But the daughter story, while dirty and unneeded is a fair story for the press to run with. Here is a woman who is running as a holier-than-thou family values conservative Christian who has a knocked up 17-year-old daughter. You're saying that is not a news story?

And even so, how come she and her party can use that as an excuse to wipe away all other discoveries as "sexist"? Is it sexist to say she "supported the bridge-to-nowhere before she was against it" or she is a member of the Alaskan Independence Party or she tried to censor books or she accepted pork as mayor or she left her hometown in debt as mayor or she tried to get an ex-brother-in-law fired and when that didn't happen she illegally fired his boss?

I mean reporting on those are just good journalism, not sexism.

Anyway, I digress. It just seems the Republicans have no platform this year other than "Obama is all-talk and unqualified and McCain is a POW Maverick whose VP is more experienced than Obama, because we said so."

And yeah conventions are always very fluffy and contrived, but c'mon. Obama laid out (whether he delivers it or not) his plans to help Americans through the economic hardships, his plan for foreign policy, education, healthcare and the environment. The only policy that I get at all from the GOP is "DRILL!" which if I was a rich oilman would be awesome. But I am not and I think, so I just shrug at the distraction.

kane9321

09-04-2008, 09:15 AM

LS....shiv. As in I'm gonna "cut" ya!

lazur

09-04-2008, 09:17 AM

Then you weren't undecided before the RNC. Either that or empty rhetoric is more than enough to sway you, in which case, you're the reason why our founding fathers found the Electoral College necessary.

Really? When did you acquire the ability to read the minds of anonymous posters over the internet?

And the electoral college is necessary to ensure our candidates don't campaign in only the largest populated areas.

As to empty rhetoric, you are absolutely biased toward dems if you believe that the DNC speeches were any better. Seriously.

I can sum up Mrs. Palin's speech:

"I'm a hockey mom."

"I was on PTA."

"My baby has Down Syndrome."

"I have been with my husband since high School...and he is a snowmobile racer."

"I was against the bridge to nowhere (after I was for it)."

*INSERT SHOT OF PALIN'S KIDS*

And some of Obama's:

"I have no experience at all, but I can bring change to Washington even though I chose a Washington insider as my VP."

"I will cut taxes on 95% of the U.S. population, even though it's actually not possible since only 60% of them pay any taxes at all."

"My strategy for Iraq is right, even though I voted against the troop surge, which was the very thing that caused the Iraqi government to request a timeline for withdrawal. Oh yeah, and I take full credit."

"I went to a slanderous church for 20 years, in which the pastor insulted our great nation on a regular basis, and even accused it of inventing aids. But I don't recall anything negative ever being said even though I went consistently and was married and had my kids baptized by the very pastor shouting such non-sense."

"I was for Jerusalem remaining an undivided city ... until I talked to my 300 foreign policy advisers who told me I should change my position on that. So I did." (I agree with Palin that the next time Obama wants to play big boy in foreign policy affairs, he should just call John McCain.)

The list of his inconsistencies is endless. He not only has no experience, but his positions bounce up and down from one point to another with no real logic or reasoning for why, and often in the SAME sound byte...

"Obama was a 'community organizer' while I was mayor of a small town...obviously I had more responsibility than him...Chicago is only the nation's third most populous city."

Obama was not the leader of Chicago. He hasn't led anything in his entire life, and yet you expect him to lead our country during a time of crisis?

*INSERT FIST POUNDING AND FINGER POINTING*

Same can be said for the DNC speakers...

"John McCain was a POW."

He was more than that. He has served his country honorably for 40 years.

*JOHN MCCAIN COMES OUT, LOOKING OLD AS DIRT*

Agreed. I'd be more comfortable if he were 10 years younger, but it is what it is.

"Sarah Palin, folks! What a gal!"

I was impressed by her speech. She touched on quite a few of her own accomplishments, as well as McCain's. She did what any VP should have done.

kane9321

09-04-2008, 09:17 AM

McCain was a pow..ok we get it(again for the 10,000th time)..and

She's a hockey mom..ok (we get that for the 100th)...and

Malice

09-04-2008, 09:21 AM

McCain was a pow..ok we get it(again for the 10,000th time)..and

She's a hockey mom..ok (we get that for the 100th)...and

I hear you guys repeating it far more than them.

lazur

09-04-2008, 09:22 AM

McCain was a pow..ok we get it(again for the 10,000th time)..and

She's a hockey mom..ok (we get that for the 100th)...and

Obama is black ... okay we get it (again for the 10,000th time).

Malice

09-04-2008, 09:24 AM

lazur

09-04-2008, 09:27 AM

I disagree. I think the DNC faced the issues directly and brought a lot of substance.

While in the RNC, take the economy for example, they hardly talk about it. The main thing they talk about is security. It's typical fear mongering. Their message hasn't changed from four years ago.

Really, what did Biden talk about that was of substance? Or Obama? Or any of them?

You talk about the economy as if it's completely Bush's fault. We spend 700 billion a year on foreign energy, and you place that blame only on Bush? How about all of the dems of the past who fought venomously to KEEP us from drilling in our own country? What, now that we're in this state, it's everyone else's fault? If you want to blame anyone for this economy, blame every president for the last 50 years for pushing it to the breaking point.

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 09:30 AM

I doubt you will hear him being a POW much more now that the convention is almost over...after this...the claws will come out on both sides...

Get to the topics people, not the stupid stuff
POW.....Black.......
its very tiring.

I disagree, I think he'll continue to denigrate his honorable-yet-awful period of military service by continually using it as an answer to any question.

500 dollar shoes ? POW.
Homes? POW.
Economic Policy? POW.

Hes kind of turning it into a joke.

Q: What do you call a dog with lipstick?
A: Who cares, I was a POW.

Malice

09-04-2008, 09:34 AM

I disagree, I think he'll continue to denigrate his honorable-yet-awful period of military service by continually using it as an answer to any question.

500 dollar shoes ? POW.
Homes? POW.
Economic Policy? POW.

Hes kind of turning it into a joke.

Q: What do you call a dog with lipstick?
A: Who cares, I was a POW.

Dear lord....

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 09:37 AM

Obama was not the leader of Chicago. He hasn't led anything in his entire life, and yet you expect him to lead our country during a time of crisis?

Before I rip into you for the comment above, I'm going to give you a chance to rethink it. :dry:

StrainedEyes

09-04-2008, 09:38 AM

Obama is black ... okay we get it (again for the 10,000th time).

I'm pretty sure that Obama being black was only mentioned a few times at the DNC and in more subtle ways. The entire RNC thus far has been about McCain as a POW and Palin as a woman.

Shifty

09-04-2008, 09:46 AM

Rove, Papa Bear and Palin make it an easy Daily Show (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184086)

Senators Foghorn Leghorn and Droopy Dog (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184085)

Excel

09-04-2008, 09:53 AM

With undecided, it more often than not vomes down to who they like the most. Obama is far and away the most likeable in the whole. This new, scandal-ridden face taking a ton of shots at him just makes her look like a ***** (sorry, but its true) with an arrogant attitude. When Obama did it, it came off strong; you could FEEL that he really DID NOT LIKE where McCain wants to go. Palin just comes off like shes personally attacking Obama, and as long as he plays himself as above it, hes in no danger.

You don't know Darthphere at all.

Hot Damn! :lmao:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 09:54 AM

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/51_say_reporters_are_trying_to_hurt_palin_39_say_s he_has_better_experience_than_obama

Over half of U.S. voters (51%) think reporters are trying to hurt Sarah Palin with their news coverage, and 24% say those stories make them more likely to vote for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November.

Thirty-nine percent (39%) also believe the GOP vice presidential nominee has better experience to be president of the United States than Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

But 49% give Obama the edge on experience, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey – taken before Palin’s historic speech Wednesday night to the Republican National Convention.

While Republicans and Democrats predictably favor their party’s candidate by overwhelming margins, the experience gap among voters unaffiliated with either party is even narrower than the national totals. Forty-two percent (42%) say Obama has better experience to be president, but 37% say Palin does.

The potential problem for Democrats is that Obama, the junior U.S. senator from Illinois and a former state legislator, is the party’s standard-bearer, while Palin, an ex-mayor and now governor of Alaska, is number two on her party’s ticket.

Palin’s highly successful debut on the national stage Wednesday night at the GOP convention is sure to impact these numbers, too. Her speech repeatedly highlighted her experience versus Obama’s, something she is expected to focus on from now until Election Day.

(Want a free daily e-mail update on our latest results? Sign up now. If it's in the news, it's in our polls. Get our daily update and we’ll let you know what voters really think.)

Just a week ago 67% of voters told Rasmussen Reports they didn’t know enough about Palin, only the second woman ever to be on a national political ticket, to comment on her. Heading into last night’s speech, however, 52% had a favorable opinion of Alaska’s Governor.

In the new survey, while 24% are more likely to vote for Palin due to recent news coverage, 19% say the opposite and 54% say the stories have no impact on their votes.

Nationally, the Rasmussen daily Presidential Tracking Poll showed Obama with a modest but expected bounce following the close of his convention last week, but that is already being offset by the bounce McCain is beginning to get from his party’s gathering.

Since McCain announced Palin as his running mate on Friday, she has been subjected to an unprecedented wave of negative media stories, many focused on her personal life and especially the pregnancy of her unmarried 17-year-old daughter. The focus of the coverage, especially in the blogosphere, has even prompted Obama to distance himself from it.

Republicans have responded angrily, and the media was the target of numerous negative comments over the first two nights of the GOP convention. Several aides to Hillary Clinton, who Obama defeated for the Democratic presidential nomination, also have criticized the media coverage for its sexist tone.

In the new survey, although 85% say they are following news stories about Palin at least somewhat closely, just five percent (5%) think reporters are trying to help her with their coverage, while 35% believe reporters are providing unbiased coverage.

Eighty percent (80%) of Republicans say reporters are trying to hurt the GOP vice presidential nominee, and 28% of Democrats agree. Only six percent (6%) of Republicans – and even fewer Democrats (4%)– think the reporting is intended to help her. Most Democrats (57%) think the reporters are being unbiased, but just nine percent (9%) of Republicans concur.

Among unaffiliated voters, 49% say reporters are trying to hurt Palin, while 32% say their coverage is unbiased. Only five percent (5%) say reporters are trying to help her.

Voters are more ambivalent about whether the media coverage of Palin and her family reflects a double standard that treats women worse than men. Forty-six percent (46%) say it does, but 35% disagree. Most Republicans and unaffiliated voters say the stories show the media’s double standard against women, but a majority of Democrats disagree.

The findings, nevertheless, are troublesome for the embattled news industry and parallel what voters said in surveys earlier this summer. Sixty-eight percent (68%) of voters now believe most reporters try to help the candidate they want to win, and 49% believe reporters are trying to help Obama this year. Only 14% think they are trying to help McCain. In another survey, 55% said media bias is a bigger problem for the electoral process than large campaign donations.

Although women voters by a 48% to 35% margin believe the coverage of Palin reveals a double standard in the media, they continue to support Obama more than men. Palin in her comments already has made clear that one of her key missions is to lure women voters disaffected by Clinton’s defeat in the Democratic primaries to the McCain column.

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 09:58 AM

I will bet you she doesnt?
She doesnt strike me as that type of person.
She would SHIV you first.
:)

The McCain Campaign has been playing the gender card for days now. And today is no exception:

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/780615.html

Out of bounds: McCain backer gets it backward

By STEVEN THOMMA

McClatchy Newspapers

Throw the flag against: Carly Fiorina and the McCain campaign.
Call: Pass interference.
What happened: Fiorina, a top McCain adviser and senior officer on the Republican National Committee, called a news conference Wednesday to complain that the media's questioning of Sarah Palin's experience is "sexist." She charged that nobody has "been concerned enough to ask the question" about Barack Obama's lack of experience.
Why that's wrong: The news media have been questioning Obama's depth of experience since the first day of his campaign.
Covering Obama's very first trip to New Hampshire in 2006, for example, McClatchy Newspapers noted that, "if Obama exudes a JFK-like charisma for some, he doesn't share Kennedy's 14 years of pre-presidential experience in Congress."
At one of the first Democratic debates way back in April 2007, McClatchy noted that Obama failed to list Israel as a top U.S. ally, a news story that Fiorina's own Republican National Committee used in news releases to point out Obama's lack of experience in foreign policy.
Last fall, the news media continued to raise questions about Obama' experience, including those raised by Democratic voters. "A lot of people think he's too inexperienced to be president," said one article last September. '"It's not his time," said Cindy Forbes of Urbandale, a suburb of Des Moines. "He's not experienced enough. He'll be president some day, but not now."'
A quick search of newspapers that contribute to the McClatchy-Tribune News Service found 89 references to Obama and the word inexperience. A Google media-wide news search found nearly 10,000 such references.
It also came up repeatedly in Democratic primary debates. In August 2007, for example, ABC's George Stephanopoulos reminded Joe Biden that he'd said he didn't think Obama was ready to be president. "I stand by the statement," Biden said.
And Hillary Clinton hammered Obama as inexperienced for months, culminating in her famous ad implying that he wasn't experienced enough to handle a crisis at 3 a.m.
Penalty: Set the McCain campaign's credibility back 10 yards.

Biden has to be very careful how he handles her in their debate. If he's too soft on her, many people will perceive that she held her own with him. If he hammers her too hard, those same people will call him a bully and a sexist who picked on a lesser experienced woman, and the McCain Campaign has shown no hesitation in playing that gender card over and over again.

That said, we won't see the REAL Palin until the debates. She did a workman like job of delivering her speech last night, which was obviously oriented towards rallying the RNC base and kept with the theme of the RNC Convention of negative messages and attacking the Dem's platform and Obama's character rather than really speaking to what the Republican's themselves are going to bring to this country. They're turning off as many people with that approach as they are exciting people, to be honest. My own mother, a die-hard, life long Republican was actually very disgusted by the negativity of last night, particularly from Giuliani and Palin (and my mother despises Obama and even she caught on to some of the lies that were being told). To the point that she's fed up with the whole thing and is about to the point where she's not even going to vote, which would be a first for her.

It seriously feels to me like the RNC is replaying their 2004 campaign all over again, to be honest. Same bullying of the media. Same fixation on war and terrorism. Same approach of lying about their opponents. Same spin machine working overtime. And the same inability to really discuss the issues and cut through all the B.S.

jag

Excel

09-04-2008, 09:59 AM

This Fox chick who looks pretty good just *****ed the **** outta some magazine dude (from the suonds of he kind of deserved it) but she is literally screaming

"I WANT FAIR AND BALANCED REPORTED!"-Reporter
"We talked to the deputy mayor, family friends and the childrens fellow students"-Magazine guy
"-SO BECAUSE THEY SAY ONE THING INSTANTLY MEANS ITS TRUE!?"
-"What else do you want us to do?"
-"Exaime the whole story! The McCain Campaign says thats wrong so your reporting a LIE!!"

Oh I see...becuase her POLITICAL CAMAPIGN TEAM says it, its gospel, but the peopel ACUALLY THERE are wrong.

Please. The girl comes with problems and people look into them, I guess hat makes them sexist. Did you hear Dems claiming the right wing were racist during the Reverend Wright scandal? If she n the whole campaign are are as strong as Obama, theyll weather the storm like he did.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:02 AM

This Fox chick who looks pretty good just *****ed the **** outta some magazine dude (from the suonds of he kind of deserved it) but she is literally screaming

"I WANT FAIR AND BALANCED REPORTED!"-Reporter
"We talked to the deputy mayor, family friends and the childrens fellow students"-Magazine guy
"-SO BECAUSE THEY SAY ONE THING INSTANTLY MEANS ITS TRUE!?"
-"What else do you want us to do?"
-"Exaime the whole story! The McCain Campaign says thats wrong so your reporting a LIE!!"

Please. The girl comes with problems and people look into them, I guess hat makes them sexist. Did you hear Dems claiming the right wing were racist during the Reverend Wright scandal? If she n the whole campaign are are as strong as Obama, theyll weather the storm like he did.

US Magazine mentioned Palin's husbands twenty plus old DUI but failed to mention how old it was. The cover is intentionally explosive and makes it look like Palin is guilty of covering up some Hollywood-esk sexcapades. Its an intentionally biased cover attempting to hurt Palin's credibility.

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:03 AM

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 10:06 AM

Careful, Sarah. Ol' Joe's settin' his traps and Alaskan Soccer Mom is in season:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/Biden.Palin/index.html#cnnSTCText

(CNN) -- Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden praised his Republican counterpart's acceptance speech as "incredibly well-crafted and delivered," but said Sarah Palin's rhetoric lacked substance.
Democratic VP nominee Sen. Joe Biden says Palin spoke well, but said nothing about important issues.

Democratic VP nominee Sen. Joe Biden says Palin spoke well, but said nothing about important issues.

"I didn't hear the phrase 'middle class.' I didn't hear a single word about health care. I didn't hear a single word about helping people get to college," Biden, a U.S. senator from Delaware, told CNN's "American Morning" Thursday.

He went on to list other policy areas the Alaska governor did not address Wednesday night at the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

"They don't have a single answer [for] how to dig us out of the hole we've been dug into the last eight years," Biden added. iReport.com: "Oh, we can play that game"

In her speech Wednesday night, Palin belittled Sen. Barack Obama's experience as a community organizer in Chicago, Illinois, and remarked that the Democratic presidential nominee and senator had written two memoirs but no major legislation.

Biden countered by saying Obama had helped formulate "the most significant ethics reform bill since Watergate."

Biden said he would stick to policy issues when the two meet to debate on October 2 at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.

"When we debate -- and, boy, she's going to be a tough debater, she's going to be a skillful debater -- I'm going to try to talk about the differences of our worldview here and what we're going to do for the country," he said.

"If it's going to get down to who can deliver the toughest lines, then she's going to win the debate," Biden added. "But I'm not going there."

jag

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:07 AM

US Magazine mentioned Palin's husbands twenty plus old DUI but failed to mention how old it was. The cover is intentionally explosive and makes it look like Palin is guilty of covering up some Hollywood-esk sexcapades. Its an intentionally biased cover attempting to hurt Palin's credibility.

This what yall gotta understand. If the news story they are reporting is against her...than thats what it is. Its the story. Saying it is intentional is ridiculous. It isnt intenional bias, its the news itself and the story is a bad one, so it is going to hurt her credibility.

She has baggage. She has problems.

Thats not bias, its fact.

You guys are trying to dimiss actual facts that diminish her credibility as simply attempts to hurt her credibility when the facts and stories are totally legitimate. The dui is a pointless issue nobody will care about seeing as she is running agianst againast an admitted former cokehead.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:09 AM

With undecided, it more often than not vomes down to who they like the most. Obama is far and away the most likeable in the whole. This new, scandal-ridden face taking a ton of shots at him just makes her look like a ***** (sorry, but its true) with an arrogant attitude. When Obama did it, it came off strong; you could FEEL that he really DID NOT LIKE where McCain wants to go. Palin just comes off like shes personally attacking Obama, and as long as he plays himself as above it, hes in no danger.

Hot Damn! :lmao:

But again Excel, just because YOU think Obama is the most likable doesn't mean he is. And I think you greatly underestimate undecided voters. You have no qualifications to claim who undecides find more likable or what they will vote based on.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:09 AM

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:10 AM

Careful, Sarah. Ol' Joe's settin' his traps and Alaskan Soccer Mom is in season:

jag

Good. If he can school on her on policy with brains while she comes off as the attacker while he stays above it, its a big win-win for dems.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:11 AM

This what yall gotta understand. If the news story they are reporting is against her...than thats what it is. Its the story. Saying it is intentional is ridiculous. It isnt intenional bias, its the news itself and the story is a bad one, so it is going to hurt her credibility.

She has baggage. She has problems.

Thats not bias, its fact.

You guys are trying to dimiss actual facts that diminish her credibility as simply attempts to hurt her credibility when the facts and stories are totally legitimate. The dui is a pointless issue nobody will care about seeing as she is running agianst againast an admitted former cokehead.

So US Magazine mentioning the DUI and not mentioning the fact it is two decades old isn't them intentionally trying to hurt Palin?

Also - what lies did Palin tell, as implied by the cover?

Again - 51% of the people believe the media is out to hurt Palin, things like this fuel that.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:11 AM

Good. If he can school on her on policy with brains while she comes off as the attacker while he stays above it, its a big win-win for dems.

Biden's reputation is not that of a politician who stays above attacks.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:12 AM

Palin's teleprompter broke - speech from memory

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/04/breaking-sarah-palin-winged-her-speech-bec/

Halfway through Sarah Palin's speech tonight at the RNC, people following the speech noticed she was deviating from the prepared text.

According to sources close to the McCain campaign, the teleprompter continued scrolling during applause breaks. As a result, half way through the speech, the speech had scrolled significantly from where Governor Palin was in the speech. The malfunction also occurred during Rudy Giuliani's speech, explaining his significant deviations from his speech.

Unfazed, Governor Palin continued, from memory, to deliver her speech without the teleprompter cued to the appropriate point in her speech.

Contrast this to Barack Obama who, when last his teleprompter malfunctioned, was left stuttering before a crowd unable to advance his speech until the problem was resolved.

Sarah Palin. Winner.

Palin gave a great speech whether it was read or not. I may not have agreed with a lot of it, but she gave a great speech and the speech she needed to give. I doubt many Democrats on this board will live up to the fact...but then again, a lot of them are the same people who said Bush didn't stand a chance in 2004 after the debates.

danoyse

09-04-2008, 10:13 AM

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:13 AM

With all honesty - I expected Palin to do exactly what she did last night. I had very high expectations for Palin, she had to meet them and she, if anything, surpassed them.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:14 AM

That sounds like a typical US Magazine article about anyone.

Not saying it's right...but US Magazine? C'mon.

Not quite on par with their Obama cover:

http://straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/barack-michelle-obama-us-magazine.jpg

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:15 AM

Palin's teleprompter broke - speech from memory

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/04/breaking-sarah-palin-winged-her-speech-bec/

Halfway through Sarah Palin's speech tonight at the RNC, people following the speech noticed she was deviating from the prepared text.

According to sources close to the McCain campaign, the teleprompter continued scrolling during applause breaks. As a result, half way through the speech, the speech had scrolled significantly from where Governor Palin was in the speech. The malfunction also occurred during Rudy Giuliani's speech, explaining his significant deviations from his speech.

Unfazed, Governor Palin continued, from memory, to deliver her speech without the teleprompter cued to the appropriate point in her speech.

Contrast this to Barack Obama who, when last his teleprompter malfunctioned, was left stuttering before a crowd unable to advance his speech until the problem was resolved.

Sarah Palin. Winner.

:whatever:

Yes... cause it's not like halfway through it when she shot out a bunch of foreign knowledge... it didn't look like she was reading off a teleprompter.

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:16 AM

Look, dont get me wrong. I like Palin. She seems cool, I like seeing her family all around. So dont look at me as a simple hater.

HOWEVER, it is truly getting to the point where the RNC is makign up attacks against Palin just so they can preach about her. They have some woman on Fox hating on "all the people sayign she should be home with her kids".

Whose been saying that? :huh:

But again Excel, just because YOU think Obama is the most likable doesn't mean he is. And I think you greatly underestimate undecided voters. You have no qualifications to claim who undecides find more likable or what they will vote based on.

I firmly believe that to the undecided voters, he is far and away the more likeable. He has a much better story to tell, isnt nearly as much of an "elitist" as McCain or Pain even if Obama himself is one (though thats a stupid argument in general). I dont see how one can argue Obama comes off as much more average Joe than McCain, to be honest. No bias either. One is extremely rich from a pretigous family, is old, and has been in politics forever. One was raised by a single mother, graduated from harvard law and took a 10k a year job helping people find jobs.

:dry:

danoyse

09-04-2008, 10:16 AM

Biden has to be very careful how he handles her in their debate. If he's too soft on her, many people will perceive that she held her own with him. If he hammers her too hard, those same people will call him a bully and a sexist who picked on a lesser experienced woman, and the McCain Campaign has shown no hesitation in playing that gender card over and over again.

It'll be interesting to see if they haven't wore out the gender card by then, either. If every criticism of her is going to be perceived as sexist, how long until people are sick of hearing it?

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:16 AM

:whatever:

Yes... cause it's not like halfway through it when she shot out a bunch of foreign knowledge... it didn't look like she was reading off a teleprompter.

Its still impressive. Not many politicans would respond well if their teleprompter broke.

Malice

09-04-2008, 10:16 AM

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:16 AM

:whatever:

Yes... cause it's not like halfway through it when she shot out a bunch of foreign knowledge... it didn't look like she was reading off a teleprompter.

...

Apparently she wasn't.

Heretic

09-04-2008, 10:18 AM

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:18 AM

Look, dont get me wrong. I like Palin. She seems cool, I like seeing her family all around. So dont look at me as a simple hater.

HOWEVER, it is truly getting to the point where the RNC is makign up attacks against Palin just so they can preach about her. They have some woman on Fox hating on "all the people sayign she should be home with her kids".

Whose been saying that? :huh:

I believe someone on this very board has said as much. Maybe not in those direct words but the implication was there.

I firmly believe that to the undecided voters, he is far and away the more likeable. He has a much better story to tell, isnt nearly as much of an "elitist" as McCain or Pain even if Obama himself is one (though thats a stupid argument in general). I dont see how one can argue Obama comes off as much more average Joe than McCain, to be honest. No bias either. One is extremely rich from a pretigous family, is old, and has been in politics forever. One was raised by a single mother, graduated from harvard law and took a 10k a year job helping people find jobs.

:dry:

Again, do you have anything to back this up with? You say no bias, but almost all polls indicate that middle America (AKA The people who decide elections) DO find Obama to come off as elitist and not average at all. You are basically making up facts to align with your own biases and then applying these "facts" to other people with absolutely nothing to support it.

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 10:18 AM

Palin's teleprompter broke - speech from memory

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/04/breaking-sarah-palin-winged-her-speech-bec/

Halfway through Sarah Palin's speech tonight at the RNC, people following the speech noticed she was deviating from the prepared text.

According to sources close to the McCain campaign, the teleprompter continued scrolling during applause breaks. As a result, half way through the speech, the speech had scrolled significantly from where Governor Palin was in the speech. The malfunction also occurred during Rudy Giuliani's speech, explaining his significant deviations from his speech.

Unfazed, Governor Palin continued, from memory, to deliver her speech without the teleprompter cued to the appropriate point in her speech.

Contrast this to Barack Obama who, when last his teleprompter malfunctioned, was left stuttering before a crowd unable to advance his speech until the problem was resolved.

Sarah Palin. Winner.

I'm sorry, but that smells like B.S., especially coming from redstate.com, a very conservative geared site that has a habit of putting up just about whatever the RNC tells them. Sounds a whole lot like another ham-fisted way of trying to compare her against Obama, again. Don't get me wrong, she did a great job with her speech. It was solid. It didn't blow me away and I found very little actual meat in it, but it was what it was supposed to be for the RNC base to cheer to and she did very well in that respect.

jag

Malice

09-04-2008, 10:19 AM

The press has told her she needs to stay home...I saw it last night!
My wife was so pissed, she almost knifed me!

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:19 AM

BTW, the teleprompter thing is exaggerated, It happened about 15 minutes in. This according to National Review

SuperT

09-04-2008, 10:19 AM

Oh so now we're grading this on speeches, oh but wait, wasn't this the party that said people shouldn't vote for Obama just based on speeches, Oooh right!

Leave it to the Republicans to bring out the hypocrisy. And I'm still upset over the demeaning of a community organizing position, and the African-American community - people that largely benefit from those people who take those positions - we aren't going to take that crap lightly.

She was very condescending in that remark, basically giving a big "f*** you!" to us!

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:19 AM

So US Magazine mentioning the DUI and not mentioning the fact it is two decades old isn't them intentionally trying to hurt Palin?

Also - what lies did Palin tell, as implied by the cover?

1 left out fact doesnt mean **** froma whole article, I will read it first before say it what it is. However I dont see you can say it is intentionally biased given the people they talked to. BIASED woulda been just talking to the campaign. They did actual journalism and spoke with the people closest to the situations-family friend, deputy mayor, classmates, ect.

Again - 51% of the people believe the media is out to hurt Palin, things like this fuel that.

Maybe right now, but there is substance behind what they are saying. If it pans out, the Republicans are screwed.

Palin's teleprompter broke - speech from memory

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/04/breaking-sarah-palin-winged-her-speech-bec/

Halfway through Sarah Palin's speech tonight at the RNC, people following the speech noticed she was deviating from the prepared text.

According to sources close to the McCain campaign, the teleprompter continued scrolling during applause breaks. As a result, half way through the speech, the speech had scrolled significantly from where Governor Palin was in the speech. The malfunction also occurred during Rudy Giuliani's speech, explaining his significant deviations from his speech.

Unfazed, Governor Palin continued, from memory, to deliver her speech without the teleprompter cued to the appropriate point in her speech.

Contrast this to Barack Obama who, when last his teleprompter malfunctioned, was left stuttering before a crowd unable to advance his speech until the problem was resolved.

Sarah Palin. Winner.

I thought the ability to give speeches didnt matter :o

danoyse

09-04-2008, 10:20 AM

Not quite on par with their Obama cover:

http://straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/barack-michelle-obama-us-magazine.jpg

And who says their Obama cover isn't full of BS, either?

Yeah, it plays in his favor. And I totally believe it was biased. The media is talking about that more than they're discussing the article.j

But again...it's US Magazine. Seriously.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:21 AM

The Democrats almost always come off as more likeable (Reagan excluded). The Democrats on the whole are considered more youthful and "cooler" than the Republicans, and the Republicans arent even really trying to change that. Four years ago I organized a voter registraition drive/concert. We brought out a ton of young voters for a mostly punk and metal show and invited all of the major parties (the local versions...not the candidates themselves). The Republicans turned us down and the Dems and third parties destroyed them on the mic for hours with no rebuttal. The crowd was darn near riotous against the Republicans by the time it was over.

There's an old saying in politics. "If you're not a Democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Republican when you're old, you have no brain." Not saying its true, kinda funny.

And I find your assertion horribly wrong. One of the biggest factors in Bush winning twice was that he was more relatable and likable than his opponents. He was the candidate you could "get a beer with." Democrats may appeal to younger crowds more, but that hardly means they are in general more likable.

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 10:22 AM

I believe someone on this very board has said as much. Maybe not in those direct words but the implication was there.

If this is a reference to me, I believe the question I asked was how she was going to balance the needs of a special needs infant and her family against a career that will suddenly have her thousands of miles away from them for months at a time where that was not an issue when she was Mayor or Governor. I was immediately bashed for "misogyny" and "sexism" by a couple of people for even asking the question at all, which is ridiculous. It's a valid question and has nothing to do with "women's place is in the home" or any other such nonsense.

jag

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:22 AM

Thirty-nine percent (39%) also believe the GOP vice presidential nominee has better experience to be president of the United States than Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

But 49% give Obama the edge on experience, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey – taken before Palin’s historic speech Wednesday night to the Republican National Convention.

While Republicans and Democrats predictably favor their party’s candidate by overwhelming margins, the experience gap among voters unaffiliated with either party is even narrower than the national totals. Forty-two percent (42%) say Obama has better experience to be president, but 37% say Palin does.

And this is only after a week of Palin being on the stage. And this is BEFORE her speech last night.

Zen

09-04-2008, 10:22 AM

Its still impressive. Not many politicans would respond well if their teleprompter broke.

sure ill give her a point or two for really spending some time going over her speech to the point where she could go on without the telepromter.

lets see her give weekly speeches, and then have one go down in the middle of a hectic schedule.

honestly this is a speech she HAD to nail, of course she memorized and studied it.

all in all though, good recoverery, she could have been sent sailing if she didnt recover as well as she did.

maybe thats where some of the substance of her speech went? :confused:

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:22 AM

Palin gave a great speech whether it was read or not. I may not have agreed with a lot of it, but she gave a great speech and the speech she needed to give. I doubt many Democrats on this board will live up to the fact...but then again, a lot of them are the same people who said Bush didn't stand a chance in 2004 after the debates.

I'm not for Palin... but that was a good speech. Although there are problems with it and it's not as 'great' as people are saying it is.

That is freaking awesome!

Its still impressive. Not many politicans would respond well if their teleprompter broke.

...

Apparently she wasn't.

Well... you can post an article that makes her look good and everyone eats it up.

But then someone can post an article about her political firings that hint at abusing her power... and it's all hearsay or not important or just her opponents making false claims cause she has enemies up there.

Although I don't know why a librarian would politically attack Palin... unless she was fired because she didn't agree with Palin.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:22 AM

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:23 AM

Again, do you have anything to back this up with? You say no bias, but almost all polls indicate that middle America (AKA The people who decide elections) DO find Obama to come off as elitist and not average at all. You are basically making up facts to align with your own biases and then applying these "facts" to other people with absolutely nothing to support it.

Matt, it goes without saying that anything I say is my opinion so I dont know why you even bothered to repond. I didnt make up anything. I stated the way I believe they're seen, nothing made up.

To be totally honest, you quoting everyone of my posts and questioning whatever it says when every other post here does the same thing yet you leave them alone is getting old.

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 10:24 AM

BTW, the teleprompter thing is exaggerated, It happened about 15 minutes in. This according to National Review

Not a surprise there. I had a feeling it was either B.S. or an exaggeration.

jag

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:24 AM

There's an old saying in politics. "If you're not a Democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Republican when you're old, you have no brain." Not saying its true, kinda funny.

And I find your assertion horribly wrong. One of the biggest factors in Bush winning twice was that he was more relatable and likable than his opponents. He was the candidate you could "get a beer with." Democrats may appeal to younger crowds more, but that hardly means they are in general more likable.

And it is funny that a comedian had the best line about that...

"They want a candidate they can have a beer with... you watching this in a bar? Look around. See a president?"

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:25 AM

Grow up and quit putting words in people's mouthes.

With all due respect...look whose talking. Nobody accuses people of saying or meaning other things incorrectly more often than you do.

StarvingArtist

09-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Anybody else here scared ****less of Sarah Palin?

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Matt, it goes without saying that anything I say is my opinion so I dont know why you even bothered to repond. I didnt make up anything. I stated the way I believe they're seen, nothing made up.

To be totally honest, you quoting everyone of my posts and questioning whatever it says when every other post here does the same thing yet you leave them alone is getting old.

Grow the hell up. If you can't debate without playing the "You singled me out and pick on my posts," card get the hell out of the political forum. No one is singling you out. The difference between you and every other poster is that you do not give just your opinion. You try to apply your opinion to other people with nothing to back it up. It would be YOUR opinion and nothing more if you said "I find Obama more likable than McCain." When you say "Obama is more liked among undecides," you are no longer giving just your opinion. You are making a statement about public perception of a candidate with no evidence to back it up. Thats why I am calling you on your bull ****.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:27 AM

With all due respect...look whose talking. Nobody accuses people of saying or meaning other things incorrectly more often than you do.

:whatever: see my last post.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:27 AM

And it is funny that a comedian had the best line about that...

"They want a candidate they can have a beer with... you watching this in a bar? Look around. See a president?"

:hehe: I agree its stupid logic, but hey, whatever works I guess?

danoyse

09-04-2008, 10:28 AM

Anybody else here scared ****less of Sarah Palin?

No. The ball is in Obama's court. Let's see how he handles this.

It's his election to lose, if he can't stand up to them now, then he never will.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:28 AM

BTW, the teleprompter thing is exaggerated, It happened about 15 minutes in. This according to National Review

Link?

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:28 AM

Grow the hell up. If you can't debate without playing the "You singled me out and pick on my posts," card get the hell out of the political forum. No one is singling you out. I am pointing out the flaw of you applying your opinion to other people with nothing to back it up. It would be YOUR opinion and nothing more if you said "I find Obama more likable than McCain." When you say "Obama is more liked among undecides," you are no longer giving just your opinion. You are making a statement about public perception of a candidate with no evidence to back it up. Thats why I am calling you on your bull ****.

Well, he used himself as a polling sample, so technically he can say Undecideds prefer Obama more, by 100 percent...

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:29 AM

Well, he used himself as a polling sample, so technically he can say Undecideds prefer Obama more, by 100 percent...

Except Excel was never undecided, was he? He confessed that the second he saw Obama's skin color he was sold.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:29 AM

Well, he used himself as a polling sample, so technically he can say Undecideds prefer Obama more, by 100 percent...

Except Excel is one of the least undecided voters in this country.

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:29 AM

Grow the hell up. If you can't debate without playing the "You singled me out and pick on my posts," card get the hell out of the political forum. No one is singling you out. I am pointing out the flaw of you applying your opinion to other people with nothing to back it up. It would be YOUR opinion and nothing more if you said "I find Obama more likable than McCain." When you say "Obama is more liked among undecides," you are no longer giving just your opinion. You are making a statement about public perception of a candidate with no evidence to back it up. Thats why I am calling you on your bull ****.

Give me a break Matt, I am just gonna stop responding. Im not the only here who gives their opinion and applies it to the events happening, for from it. :rolleyes:

Malice

09-04-2008, 10:29 AM

Population of Alaska - (2006 estimate) - 670,053
Population of Delaware - (2006 estimate) - 853,476

Wow....interesting

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:30 AM

:hehe: I agree its stupid logic, but hey, whatever works I guess?

No.... no! NO GUESS!

That's the kind of stuff that's going to lead to the end of the world.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:31 AM

Give me a break Matt, I am just gonna stop responding. Im not the only here who gives their opinion and applies it to the events happening, for from it. :rolleyes:

No, I will not give you a break. Any time you try to give statistical evidence to support your argument without anything to back it up, you can bet your ass I will be on your post, pointing out the flaws, like a fat kid on a cupcake. I would do it to anyone who tried to give statistical evidence based on little more than their own biases. Except you're the only one in this forum who does it.

danoyse

09-04-2008, 10:31 AM

Population of Alaska - (2006 estimate) - 670,053
Population of Delaware - (2006 estimate) - 853,476

Wow....interesting

Although Biden was a senator, not a governor. And he's been in the Senate for 36 years now.

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 10:31 AM

Except Excel was never undecided, was he? He confessed that the second he saw Obama's skin color he was sold.

Matt, that's really not fair, man.

jag

StarvingArtist

09-04-2008, 10:31 AM

No. The ball is in Obama's court. Let's see how he handles this.

It's his election to lose, if he can't stand up to them now, then he never will.

I think he's already doing a great job. My fear is that the stakes are that much higher with Mcain's right-wing, evengelical, anti-abortion choice for VP.

Malice

09-04-2008, 10:32 AM

Total Land Area (in millions of acres)
Alaska - 366.05
Delaware - 1.25

Malice

09-04-2008, 10:32 AM

Although Biden was a senator, not a governor. And he's been in the Senate for 36 years now.

I said nothing, I thought it was intriguing....

They are almost the same size in population...

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:33 AM

Link?

I can't find it on the site. Give me a few and youll have it. I'm thinking they may have removed it seeing as how its a pretty minor thing.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:34 AM

Matt, that's really not fair, man.

jag

Its not fair to quote someone's own words that he is on the record of saying in the Iowa Caucus thread?

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:36 AM

I must say that I thought Palin delivered a FANTASTIC speech last night!!

This was an important "first hurdle" for her, and I think she more than cleared it.

Of course, now the really tough road will begin for her. She will have to continue delivering on the campaign trail.

But, she will have to start delving into more specifics. She WILL have to do media interviews and address whatever challenges and questions they pose to her HEAD ON. She can't afford to dodge or dance around the issues.

And, of course, she will have the debate with Biden. That for me, is much more important, as both candidates will ( and should ) be forced to debate the issues. Her ability to go toe-to-toe with a political veteran like Biden will go a long way to demonstrating whether she is "fit" for the job.

So......I really liked what I'm seeing so far......and I remain optimistic about how she will do going forward.........

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:37 AM

Polling sample....I had breakfast this morning with my parents, whome are both black. My Dad woulda gone McCain had he picked Romney and was leaning McCain, but finds Palins pick insulting as she brings nothing to the ticket other than a spark. But he says he is too conservartive to vote Obama, even though he is registered Democrat which he needs to change because he ever since hes found money his views have shifted. He didnt see the speech.

My mother is an undecided leaning Obama who thinks the Palin pick is smart. She did see the speech, and said a statement I meant to share.

"She sounded like Hillary, with attacking, sarcasm, and attitude. The problem is though, she isnt Hillary. Not as known, not as credible, not as expirienced. I hope women see through it because she is not how I want the first female VP or President to be".

Thats about it, I usually avoid politics with my Dad.

Except Excel is one of the least undecided voters in this country.

I know who I am voting for, but I have no problem seeing things from the Republicans pov, seeing flaws or holes in Obamas campaign, and seeing positives in McCains.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 10:37 AM

Although Biden was a senator, not a governor. And he's been in the Senate for 36 years now.

That's not what I call Change I Can Believe In.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:38 AM

Polling sample....I had breakfast this morning with my parents, whome are both black. My Dad woulda gone McCain had he picked Romney and was leaning McCain, but finds Palins pick insulting as she brings nothing to the ticket other than a spark. But he says he is too conservartive to vote Obama, even though he is registered Democrat which he needs to change because he ever since hes found money his views have shifted. He didnt see the speech.

My mother is an undecided leaning Obama who thinks the Palin pick is smart. She did see the speech, and said a statement I meant to share.

"She sounded like Hillary, with attacking, sarcasm, and attitude. The problem is though, she isnt Hillary. Not as known, not as credible, not as expirienced. I hope women see through it because she is not how I want the first female VP or President to be".

Thats about it, I usually avoid politics with my Dad.

I know who I am voting for, but I have no problem seeing things from the Republicans pov, seeing flaws or holes in Obamas campaign, and seeing positives in McCains.

The fact that you just used your parents as a polling sample of 2 shows how little business you have making any claims what-so-ever. Especially since you just decided to ignore 50 % of your polling sample cause "You avoid politics with your dad."

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:39 AM

That's not what I call Change I Can Believe In.

McCain is Bush. Palin loves pork-barrel money.

That's what I call Change I Can Believe In....

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:40 AM

No, I will not give you a break. Any time you try to give statistical evidence to support your argument without anything to back it up, you can bet your ass I will be on your post, pointing out the flaws, like a fat kid on a cupcake. I would do it to anyone who tried to give statistical evidence based on little more than their own biases. Except you're the only one in this forum who does it.

What can I say, I always go with what my gut says in just about anything. Ill leave it at that, if you want to respond be my guest. You obviously missed the point, which is surprsing for such a "fair and balanced" mod. :rolleyes:

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:42 AM

What can I say, I always go with what my gut says in just about anything. Ill leave it at that, if you want to respond be my guest. You obviously missed the point, which is surprsing for such a "fair and balanced" mod. :rolleyes:

Oh, because I'm a moderator I'm not allowed to debate you? Am I infracting you for having a different opinion? Am I editting your posts? No? Didn't think so. Therefore why am I not allowed to prove you wrong when you make outlandish claims?

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:43 AM

McCain is Bush.

And if you really believe that, your opinion isn't worthwhile.

Palin loves pork-barrel money.

She loves it so much she gave back the money given to Alaska to build the Bridge to No Where.

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:43 AM

The fact that you just used your parents as a polling sample of 2 shows how little business you have making any claims what-so-ever. Especially since you just decided to ignore 50 % of your polling sample cause "You avoid politics with your dad."

Bro how did I ignore my Dad he was the 1st oen I mentioned grow up n stop putting words in my mou-wait, you almost got me...not getting dragged into this.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 10:43 AM

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 10:43 AM

McCain is Bush. Palin loves pork-barrel money.

That's what I call Change I Can Believe In....
McCain is not Bush. They are 2 different men, and McCain has disagreed with Bush on several important issues. That line is wrong, tired and old.

And examples of Palin's pork-barrel tendencies, if you please.

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:45 AM

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:45 AM

And if you really believe that, your opinion isn't worthwhile.

She loves it so much she gave back the money given to Alaska to build the Bridge to No Where.

She accepted the money.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:45 AM

Bro how did I ignore my Dad he was the 1st oen I mentioned grow up n stop putting words in my mou-wait, you almost got me...not getting dragged into this.

But he is voting McCain, right? For whatever reason. Therefore his opinion as an "Undecided" is, "I will vote for the conservative. Not the one I like more." Therefore, an accurate summation of your "study," would be "undecides vote 50 % based on political theology and 50 % on personality." Yet in your original post, you ignored 50 % of your sample and claimed only "Undecides will vote based on personality."

Oh, and if you didn't want to get "dragged in," you wouldn't have hit submit reply. Nice way to try to use passive-aggressive techniques to cop out of an argument which you know you are losing.

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:45 AM

sinewave

09-04-2008, 10:46 AM

is pailin seriously calling obama out on experience???? seriously????

Heretic

09-04-2008, 10:46 AM

There's an old saying in politics. "If you're not a Democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Republican when you're old, you have no brain." Not saying its true, kinda funny.

And I find your assertion horribly wrong. One of the biggest factors in Bush winning twice was that he was more relatable and likable than his opponents. He was the candidate you could "get a beer with." Democrats may appeal to younger crowds more, but that hardly means they are in general more likable.

As far as Bush goes...eh...maybe youre right...Gore and Kerry both came off as the boring insiders who inherited the role...which is thought of as a Republican tactic of "its his turn".

And you can be a young Republican (um...I think Im still young). The Republicans just need to modernize their approach, not their agenda.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 10:46 AM

For real.

All I am hearing is "she brings confidence and energy".

Cool. How does that help the American people? You need substance to match it, Obama has both.

What substance? Can you tell me what BO has accomplished that give him "substance" in this campaign? What meaningful legislation has he authored and passed? What important decisions has he made that affect the lives of millions, or even thousands for that matter? What is a single achievement of BO that makes him fit for the presidency?

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:47 AM

But he is voting McCain, right? For whatever reason. Therefore his opinion as an "Undecided" is, "I will vote for the conservative. Not the one I like more." Therefore, an accurate summation of your "study," would be "undecides vote 50 % based on political theology and 50 % on personality." Yet in your original post, you ignored 50 % of your sample and claimed only "Undecides will vote based on personality."

my head's spinning now Matt.......lol....

but your cupcake analogy did make me hungry.........you woudln't like me when I'm........hungry.......:bh:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:47 AM

You know, while I've almost always disagreed with Norman, I've respected his positions because he does seem to analyse the facts and back up in his position. But the depths he's sunk to to defend Sarah Palin? C'mon man, are you serious? Just about the only thing that can be said is she has "energy". It's even more vague than the biggest kool-aid Obama fans descriptions of Obama. Norman said that he would prefer to see Palin be President over Obama, Biden, and McCain - wow.

I would support Palin over Obama, Biden and McCain by a wide margin as well.

I would support Obama over Biden, experience has never been crucial to me - the real difference is Palin has a record of reform, a record of ignoring political party to get things done - a record I really respect.

Yes, I disagree with her on several issues - abortion, sex ed, drugs, various other social issues - but on larger issues, I agree more with Palin on taxes and energy.

Name one defense I have made of Palin that is beneath me? The fact that I don't blame Palin for her daughter being preggers?

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:48 AM

is pailin seriously calling obama out on experience???? seriously????

Was Obama's campaign calling out Palin on experience???? Seriously????

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:49 AM

She accepted the money.

She gave it back to Washington.

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:49 AM

As far as Bush goes...eh...maybe youre right...Gore and Kerry both came off as the boring insiders who inherited the role...which is thought of as a Republican tactic of "its his turn".

And you can be a young Republican (um...I think Im still young). The Republicans just need to modernize their approach, not their agenda.

I'm a Young Republican!! And I'd much prefer to have a drink with McCain and Palin........:o..........

even though I don't drink...........lol.

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 10:50 AM

If Washington is code for kept it, then yes.

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:51 AM

Was Obama's campaign calling out Palin on experience???? Seriously????

No. They called McCain out hypocrisy.

The Master

09-04-2008, 10:51 AM

Was Obama's campaign calling out Palin on experience???? Seriously????

Obama himself didn't.

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:53 AM

my head's spinning now Matt.......lol....

but your cupcake analogy did make me hungry.........you woudln't like me when I'm........hungry.......:bh:

Hey, I'm just trying to assertain the true results of Excel's scientific study into the minds of undecided voters.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 10:53 AM

Obama himself didn't.

He just hides while he sends his attack dogs out to make ridiculous statements that he knows he himself would not be able to back up.

DACrowe

09-04-2008, 10:53 AM

And if you really believe that, your opinion isn't worthwhile.

She loves it so much she gave back the money given to Alaska to build the Bridge to No Where.

Only after it became scandalous to support it and actually was pushing for it originally stating it was best to do it now while there was still sound support from the Congress. :dry:

She also personally accepted pork when she was a mayor for her incredibly small town.

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:53 AM

Obama himself didn't.

well....technically....he was.........he tried to compare his "experience" with running his campaign to Palin's experience as a Mayor of a "small town".......( even though he conveniently left out that Palin is also Governor!! )...

DACrowe

09-04-2008, 10:54 AM

I'm a Young Republican!! And I'd much prefer to have a drink with McCain and Palin........:o..........

even though I don't drink...........lol.

best way to decide who to vote for. :oldrazz: ;)

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 10:55 AM

Name one defense I have made of Palin that is beneath me? The fact that I don't blame Palin for her daughter being preggers?

Statements like that. Statements like that are beneath you. There are more concerning issues about Palin other than her daughter being pregnant. Like the fact that she is supposed to be a fiscal conservative and yet put Wasilla into debt amounting to $3000 per person. Like the fact that she was for the Bridge To Nowhere before she was against it. The defensive position of the GOP has shown ugly hypocrisy from the republicans and Fox News. The same people crying sexism now were blasting Hillary and Michelle for a lot less than what's been brought up about Palin. Palin's nomination and everything we have seen of her so far has effectively knocked the legs of every major argument Republicans had about Obama.

Every flaw Obama supposedly had - lack of experience, too vague on what he wants to do, it is all doubly true for Palin.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 10:55 AM

Except Excel was never undecided, was he? He confessed that the second he saw Obama's skin color he was sold.

Okay, no offense, but that was low. You two seriously need to get a room. :down

And I'm still upset over the demeaning of a community organizing position, and the African-American community - people that largely benefit from those people who take those positions - we aren't going to take that crap lightly.

She was very condescending in that remark, basically giving a big "f*** you!" to us!

I agree. It was one of the comments that shocked me the most. Sarah and John need to tread carefully with comments like this, because the Obama campaign and Dem party have a LOT of ammunition up their sleeves and they've deliberately held back since Sarah's name got put out there.

Obama chose to forego a major career in law to help his community. That says a lot about his character. With those denigrating comments, Sarah was attacking that character--and that's lame.

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 10:55 AM

And if you really believe that, your opinion isn't worthwhile.

And if you think voting 90% of the time together isn't that big of deal... then your opinion isn't worthwhile enough to declare my opinion not worthwhile.

She loves it so much she gave back the money given to Alaska to build the Bridge to No Where.

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."
THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/

McCain is not Bush. They are 2 different men, and McCain has disagreed with Bush on several important issues. That line is wrong, tired and old.

McCain as a maverick is tired and old... cause when was the last time he was a maverick besides picking Palin.

And examples of Palin's pork-barrel tendencies, if you please.

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."
THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/

X Knight

09-04-2008, 10:55 AM

Hey, I'm just trying to assertain the true results of Excel's scientific study into the minds of undecided voters.

well then.......I expect a full, detailed report on that subject on my desk by midnight........:oldrazz: :woot:

Matt

09-04-2008, 10:57 AM

Okay, no offense, but that was low. You two seriously need to get a room. :down

No, its not low, LS!. When someone says, and I quote "I don't know jack about politics. I'm just voting for the brother," then it is perfectly fair game to use it against him when he claims to be unbiased. Because anything he's learned since or any decision he's made since, is all based on his pre-exisiting biases towards Obama's skin color.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 10:57 AM

If Washington is code for kept it, then yes.

...

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 10:58 AM

Okay, no offense, but that was low. You two seriously need to get a room. :down

I agree. It was one of the comments that shocked me the most. Sarah and John need to tread carefully with comments like this, but the Dems have a LOT of ammunition up their sleeves and they've deliberately held back since Sarah's name got put out there.

Obama chose to forego a major career in law to help his community. That says a lot about his character. With those denigrating comments, Sarah was attacking that character--and that's lame.

Let's see. Who were some other Community Organizers?

Nelson Mandela
Cesar Chavez
Harriet Tubman
Martin Luther King Jr.

What a bunch of losers! They should have run for mayor instead.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Excel

09-04-2008, 10:59 AM

Obama chose to forego a major career in law to help his community. That says a lot about his character. With those denigrating comments, Sarah was attacking that character--and that's lame.

Exactly. I am not worried. The McCain campaign are making the same mistakes the Hillary did. If they attack him as a character, hell make them look like fools like he did Hillary by staying steadily above it.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:00 AM

And if you think voting 90% of the time together isn't that big of deal... then your opinion isn't worthwhile enough to declare my opinion not worthwhile.

That was last year where McCain was campaigning and thus only voted when it was a crucial bill - it is natural he would support his party most often in those situations.

If you don't know McCain has been a thorn in the side of the Republican Congressional Majority and Bush himself the past 8 years - you obviously are a novice to the topic.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/

...so what you are telling me is that Palin vetoed the Bridge after the government funded it. That sounds familiar. [/quote]

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:01 AM

Exactly. I am not worried. The McCain campaign are making the same mistakes the Hillary did. If they attack him as a character, hell make them look like folls like he did Hillary by standing steady above it.

Hillary only rose in the polls when she attacked Obama. Based on the results she got from attacking him, if she did it from the start, she would've mostly likely won.

McCain, likewise, only goes up when he attacks. Once again, I ask, what are you basing the assertion that he will make them look like "folls" on, when they succeed by attacking?

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:01 AM

And if you think voting 90% of the time together isn't that big of deal... then your opinion isn't worthwhile enough to declare my opinion not worthwhile.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/

McCain as a maverick is tired and old... cause when was the last time he was a maverick besides picking Palin.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/attacks-praise-stretch-truth-at-gop-convention--2/

Wow, she supported federal dollars for her state, when in fact federal money goes to every state in the Union. Bring her up on charges!

It's not like she funneled millions of dollars to a guy that lives in her neighborhood, a guy who just happens to have been an unrepentant domestic terrorist and with whom she sat on the board of a community organization for over a year.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:02 AM

Was Obama's campaign calling out Palin on experience???? Seriously????

If the Republicans really want to play the experience argument then Tim Kaine is the most qualified to be President out of them all :whatever:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:04 AM

If the Republicans really want to play the experience argument then Tim Kaine is the most qualified to be President out of them all :whatever:

...

How is that a response?

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:04 AM

That was last year where McCain was campaigning and thus only voted when it was a crucial bill - it is natural he would support his party most often in those situations.

If you don't know McCain has been a thorn in the side of the Republican Congressional Majority and Bush himself the past 8 years - you obviously are a novice to the topic.

It wasn't just one year that had a 90% voting record agreement between Bush and McCain. Their agreement has been pretty consistent for most of the eight years. Heck, the voting record shows that one year they agreed 100% of the time.

I'll take your novice name calling card from you now. Thanks.

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:04 AM

Hillary only rose in the polls when she attacked Obama.

That isnt true. She started off her campaigns in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania with massive leads, and as she attacked Obama; throwing the kitchen sink at him, he kept rising in polls.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:05 AM

Wow, she supported federal dollars for her state, when in fact federal money goes to every state in the Union. Bring her up on charges!

It's not like she funneled millions of dollars to a guy that lives in her neighborhood, a guy who just happens to have been an unrepentant domestic terrorist and with whom she sat on the board of a community organization for over a year.

It's still pork barrel spending. You know. The stuff McCain is staunchly against! 4 years ago the nation ripped Kerry a new one for this kind of stuff but Palin get's a slide?

And Excel stop judging people by the color of their skin. It's just as bad as the rednecks who won't vote for Obama cause they think he's a black muslim.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:06 AM

Excel stop judging people by the color of their skin. It's just as bad as the rednecks who won't vote for Obama cause they think he's a black muslim.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Welcome to January.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:06 AM

...

How is that a response?

How is that a response to my perfectly valid argument :huh:

If republicans really want to make a big deal out of Palin's 'executive' experience, then Tim Kaine trumps her. Big time. He was the mayer of a significantly larger population than Palin. He became Lieutenant Governor, and after that became the damn Governor of Virginia.

sinewave

09-04-2008, 11:07 AM

Was Obama's campaign calling out Palin on experience???? Seriously????

Let me be clear, I don't think either of them should focus on that. It's ridiculous. Neither has much experience, so why would they even try to draw attention to it if it's not a strong point? But the fact remains, this whole time the republican party has hammered Obama on his lack of experience, and rightly so, but to then have McCain turn around and select someone as inexperienced as Palin and then have her attack Obama on his lack of experience and then watch all the republicans who were doing the same thing to Obama fall all over themselves talking up her experience in 20 months as a governor of a sparsely populated state or the mayor of a small town just comes off as hypocritical and crazy to me.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:08 AM

It's still pork barrel spending. You know. The stuff McCain is staunchly against! 4 years ago the nation ripped Kerry a new one for this kind of stuff but Palin get's a slide?

And Excel stop judging people by the color of their skin. It's just as bad as the rednecks who won't vote for Obama cause they think he's a black muslim.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

I think the word you're looking for is "racists." You should apologize to rednecks everywhere, unless you really are anti-redneck, in which case you would be a bigot.

Was she securing federal funds for actual purposes that benefited the state of Alaska, or was she trying to build a Woodstock museum or something? Need to come with some substance if you're going to accuse her of something.

danoyse

09-04-2008, 11:09 AM

Oh, it's on. Obama strikes back:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/04/obama-didn%e2%80%99t-expect-ginger-treatment-from-palin/

Obama didn’t expect ginger treatment from Palin
Posted: 11:40 AM ET

From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand

PITTSBURGH (CNN) – Senior Obama adviser David Axelrod appeared unfazed by Sarah Palin’s tough speech in St. Paul Wednesday night, telling reporters Thursday Barack Obama watched a bit of her speech and took it in stride.

“To be very honest with you, I don’t think he expected gingerly treatment,” Axelrod told reporters on the campaign plane. “I think he understands that they don’t really have a record to run on and this is what politicians do when they don’t have a record to run on.”

Asked if it was harder to respond to attacks from Palin because she’s a woman, Axelrod said they were happy to respond to any “blatant distortions of fact” and that despite selling herself as someone not from Washington, she’d do well there.

“She’s a skilled politician. As she proved last night she’s deft at going on the attack,” said Axelrod. “For someone who makes the point that she’s not from Washington, she looks very much like she’d fit in very well there. When you see how she brings these attacks, it all felt very familiar to Americans who are used to this kind of thing from Washington.”

As for the repeated attacks from speakers like Rudy Giuliani and Palin on the community organizing chapter of his life Obama often touts, Axelrod said he thought everyday people viewed the position as real work.

“It may not pay the millions of dollars Rudy gets for shilling for pharma but it’s significant work,” said Axelrod.

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:09 AM

That isnt true. She started off her campaigns in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania with massive leads, and as she attacked Obama; throwing the kitchen sink at him, he kept rising in polls.

And she won by massive leads in two of those states, and won another (though she did not get the most delegates due to Texas' system). Again, how can you assert that it was because she attacked that she lost numbers? Perhaps it was due to momentum of his many wins in a row or the growing media bias against Hillary at the time? Polls indicate that McCain enjoyed quite a bit of success through attacking. Therefore it does not go to logic that Clinton maintained the leads and won those states due to attacking? Prove your argument Excel. Give some sort of empirical evidence to prove McCain's attacks do not work.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:09 AM

It wasn't just one year that had a 90% voting record agreement between Bush and McCain. Their agreement has been pretty consistent for most of the eight years. Heck, the voting record shows that one year they agreed 100% of the time.

I'll take your novice name calling card from you now. Thanks.

*sigh*

Again, McCain has been a constant thorn in the side of Bush and his Republican majority - he was one of Bush's most vocal critics on his handling of the war (he long pushed for the troop surge that eventually initiated victory in Iraq), he stood with Democrats on issues like campaign finance and immigration. McCain disagreed with Bush on Environmental issues and HMO reform. He also was a member of the "Gang of 14" that helped preserve the Democrat minority to filibuster Bush's judicial appointments.

Again - anyone who believes that McCain is the same as Bush does not know his facts.

SuperT

09-04-2008, 11:10 AM

I think the most disheartening thing for me, was that they didn't talk about a single issue - specifically issues that are plaguing not just general America, but minority America.

The Republican party has not once reached out or even given a hand or even shown that they care about the unique issues that we face on a daily basis. And they wonder why they are having a hard time garnering our support or pitch a fit when we as a whole (almost 90%) of us vote Democrat, it's pretty straight forward - they don't care about us.

X Knight

09-04-2008, 11:10 AM

How is that a response to my perfectly valid argument :huh:

If republicans really want to make a big deal out of Palin's 'executive' experience, then Tim Kaine trumps her. Big time. He was the mayer of a significantly larger population than Palin. He became Lieutenant Governor, and after that became the damn Governor of Virginia.

Wasn't Tim Kaine on Obama's list for VP candidates?

danoyse

09-04-2008, 11:10 AM

How is that a response to my perfectly valid argument :huh:

If republicans really want to make a big deal out of Palin's 'executive' experience, then Tim Kaine trumps her. Big time. He was the mayer of a significantly larger population than Palin. He became Lieutenant Governor, and after that became the damn Governor of Virginia.

Even better...just a month ago, Karl Rove was commenting on Fox that Kaine's experience was totally inadequate for a VP choice. Funny how he changed his tune on Palin's.

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 11:10 AM

That was last year where McCain was campaigning and thus only voted when it was a crucial bill - it is natural he would support his party most often in those situations.

I don't quite know, why would a maverick like McCain kiss Bush's ass when Bush pretty much trashed McCain in 2000 and made him look completely horrendous?

If you don't know McCain has been a thorn in the side of the Republican Congressional Majority and Bush himself the past 8 years - you obviously are a novice to the topic.

:whatever: Because it's not like there is evidence to point toward that... beside the campaigning time.

...so what you are telling me is that Palin vetoed the Bridge after the government funded it. That sounds familiar.

Did you not read that?

While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

Only when... not before it was ridiculed... AFTER.

Wow, she supported federal dollars for her state, when in fact federal money goes to every state in the Union. Bring her up on charges!

Federal PORK dollars.... you know. The usual. Business as usual.

It's not like she funneled millions of dollars to a guy that lives in her neighborhood, a guy who just happens to have been an unrepentant domestic terrorist and with whom she sat on the board of a community organization for over a year.

:whatever: Yes... because answering a question about Palin should always have an Obama attack in it.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:11 AM

How is that a response to my perfectly valid argument :huh:

If republicans really want to make a big deal out of Palin's 'executive' experience, then Tim Kaine trumps her. Big time. He was the mayer of a significantly larger population than Palin. He became Lieutenant Governor, and after that became the damn Governor of Virginia.

Is Kaine on the ticket? Kaine is completely irrelevant in this Presidential election. :huh:

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:11 AM

Even better...just a month ago, Karl Rove was commenting on Fox that Kaine's experience was totally inadequate for a VP choice. Funny how he changed his tune on Palin's.

Exactly. Palin has really shined a big light on the hypocrisy of the republican party and Fox News.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:11 AM

I think the word you're looking for is "racists." You should apologize to rednecks everywhere, unless you really are anti-redneck, in which case you would be a bigot.

Was she securing federal funds for actual purposes that benefited the state of Alaska, or was she trying to build a Woodstock museum or something? Need to come with some substance if you're going to accuse her of something.

My father is a redneck. My brothers are rednecks. I myself enjoy a game of horseshoes and a beer.

I believe I can call my own by a nasty name. Isn't that the rules as set down by african-americans?

:D

As for the porkbarrel stuff... gimmie a sec... all I knew was that she spent it... I don't know offhand for what.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:12 AM

I forget who said it but it might have been Jag who said Obama rolls with punches extremely well. Thats why i dont think theyll work. Hillary may have won those states, but she started off Ohio with a 17% average lead in polls but won by 10%. Pennsylvania it was 14% and she won by 10%. Texas was 10% and she won by 3%. Indiana was 9% and she barely one.

And all she did was attack. I dont have statistics that show how many punches Obamas dodged, I can just look at his history against opponents who used similar tactics and how he fared.

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:12 AM

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:12 AM

Is Kaine on the ticket? Kaine is completely irrelevant in this Presidential election. :huh:

Not really.

Yes or no question.

Is Tim Kaine more qualified to be President than Palin according to the terms of 'executive' experience that the Republicans have now set?

That is my point.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:13 AM

I don't quite know, why would a maverick like McCain kiss Bush's ass when Bush pretty much trashed McCain in 2000 and made him look completely horrendous?

Because thats politics. If you refused to work with political enemies - then you would be really, really, bad at your job.

Did you not read that?

I read that - and, regardless, she WILLING gave back the money signed to Alaska back to Washington. Thats unheard of.

Raiden

09-04-2008, 11:13 AM

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:13 AM

jaguarr

09-04-2008, 11:14 AM

Oh, it's on. Obama strikes back:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/04/obama-didn%e2%80%99t-expect-ginger-treatment-from-palin/

Yep. They're going to continue to tie her to the same anchor as McCain, that anchor being the Bush Administration. And they just keep giving the Dem's rope to do it with. It's a sound strategy and the RNC obviously can't figure out how the hell to deal with it.

jag

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:14 AM

Not really.

Yes or no question.

Is Tim Kaine more qualified to be President than Palin according to the terms of 'executive' experience that the Republicans have now set?

That is my point.

I believe Kaine is more qualified than Obama, yes.

Is he more qualified to Palin? Arguably.

Is he more qualified than McCain? No. Is he more qualified than Biden? No.

But I have never stated that Palin is more experienced than either Biden or McCain.

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 11:15 AM

victory in Iraq

Sorry, I just have to call you out on this.

SuperT

09-04-2008, 11:15 AM

Do you want a startlingly accurate answer SuperT? Republicans have tried to reach out to minorities since the 70s. Each time they were rejected? Why waste money and resources courting votes you cannot get and frankly, you do not need to win?

It's not that. It is the fact that they have contiuously voted against or gone against programs that would specifically support or help out our community as a whole.

And you're confused why we reject them continuously?

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Even better...just a month ago, Karl Rove was commenting on Fox that Kaine's experience was totally inadequate for a VP choice. Funny how he changed his tune on Palin's.

The difference is the President.

Kaine backing up Obama is not the same as Palin backing up McCain.

If Biden was the Democrats choice, Kaine would of been a perfectly qualified VP.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Prove she dropped those percentage points because she was attacking.

Its a logical conclusion :huh:

All she did was attack while he campaigned. Her huge leads shrunk.

Conclusion: either the attacks failed or Obama was an incredibly effective campaigner. Probably both.

McCain's attacks seem to be proving otherwise

Not really

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

It's not that. It is the fact that they have contiuously voted against or gone against programs that would specifically support or help out our community as a whole.

And you're confused why we reject them continuously?

No, I think the black community is perfectly right in not accepting the Republicans' olive branch. But again, after so long, why should you expect them to even try when you guys clearly aren't going to embrace them and they can win without you?

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Sorry, I just have to call you out on this.

You don't think we have found victory in Iraq? :huh:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Let me be clear, I don't think either of them should focus on that. It's ridiculous. Neither has much experience, so why would they even try to draw attention to it if it's not a strong point? But the fact remains, this whole time the republican party has hammered Obama on his lack of experience, and rightly so, but to then have McCain turn around and select someone as inexperienced as Palin and then have her attack Obama on his lack of experience and then watch all the republicans who were doing the same thing to Obama fall all over themselves talking up her experience in 20 months as a governor of a sparsely populated state or the mayor of a small town just comes off as hypocritical and crazy to me.

As mayor, she had to make decisions every day (for 2 terms) that affected the lives of her town. As governor she had to make decisions on a daily basis that affected the lives of nearly 700,000 people and the mass of nearly 700,000 square miles. She made decisions on everything from the state budget to building a new gas pipeline to protecting wildlife areas. She took on corruption in the Republican Party of Alaska and ousted several members of the "good old boy network." She was elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors, due to recognition of the outstanding job she did as mayor of Alaska. She cut taxes in Alaska and when gas prices spiked and her state saw a tax surplus that was over the state's budget, she returned the woman to every man, woman and child in Alaska in the form of a $1200 check to each citizen.

Now tell me: what accomplishments of BO make him so fit for the presidency?

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:17 AM

There was a sign that said, "Mission Accomplished".

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:17 AM

What I bolded above is such an excellent point. :up:

Did anyone else catch that point? I sometimes wonder....:dry:

We have been saying that for a week. When niether has much expirience its a pointless argument, and Obama has not called her out on it. He has called out the McCain campaign on an incredibly obvious hypocrisy.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:17 AM

It's not that. It is the fact that they have contiuously voted against or gone against programs that would specifically support or help out our community as a whole.

And you're confused why we reject them continuously?

I think the Republican position is that they don't tend to support legislation that is focused on helping specific demographics and prefer legislation that benefits everyone with no thought to skin color or gender. I agree with that.

Gilpesh

09-04-2008, 11:18 AM

Because thats politics. If you refused to work with political enemies - then you would be really, really, bad at your job.

Well... that's hilarious if that is what maverick behavior is.

I read that - and, regardless, she WILLING gave back the money signed to Alaska back to Washington. Thats unheard of.

Noooo. She gave it back AFTER people started to call it a bridge to nowhere. And calling it pork.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:18 AM

:whatever: Yes... because answering a question about Palin should always have an Obama attack in it.

I'm using Obama for comparison's sake. Obama is the one who can't criticize McCain or Palin without calling them the next Bush-Cheney.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:18 AM

There was a sign that said, "Mission Accomplished".

:thing: :doom: :thing:

A completely irrelevant point...

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:18 AM

I believe Kaine is more qualified than Obama, yes.

Is he more qualified to Palin? Arguably.

Is he more qualified than McCain? No. Is he more qualified than Biden? No.

But I have never stated that Palin is more experienced than either Biden or McCain.

But it is what the Republican party has argued. And you still seemingly want to vote for them. That's what gets me. They're proving themselves to be incredibly irresponsible and hypocritical. They cannot be trusted to be elected again.

Matt

09-04-2008, 11:19 AM

Its a logical conclusion :huh:

All she did was attack while he campaigned. Her huge leads shrunk.

Conclusion: either the attacks failed or Obama was an incredibly effective campaigner. Probably both.

No, you are assuming that. It is not logical. There are many other conclussions for Obama gaining on her. Momentum from winning several states in a row. A growing media bias against Hillary as well as a growing outrage against her amongst her own party, etc. You cannot assume without having a study to back it up.

Not really

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

But those polls are post-convention bump and post Palin-scandals. Throughout late July to mid-August McCain enjoyed tremendous success as a result of his attack ads.

IrishFightin

09-04-2008, 11:20 AM

A completely irrelevant point...

Wow.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:20 AM

A completely irrelevant point...

Irrelevant is one of your favourite words when people make an argument you can't argue against.

You haven't responded to one of my posts on the previous page.

That's all I'll say. Kid gloves are back on, loving respect for others and their uninformed opinions is back. No more sassy-ness from Kaine.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:20 AM

I think the Republican position is that they don't tend to support legislation that is focused on helping specific demographics and prefer legislation that benefits everyone with no thought to skin color or gender. I agree with that.

School vouchers?
Redistricting in Texas?
Prayer in school?
Constitutional Amendments saying that a marriage is between a man and a woman?

They try to benefit christians all the time.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Excel

09-04-2008, 11:20 AM

No, I think the black community is perfectly right in not accepting the Republicans' olive branch. But again, after so long, why should you expect them to even try when you guys clearly aren't going to embrace them and they can win without you?

Wait.

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2008/03/08/320x240/tropic_movie_downeyjr1.jpg

What do you mean, "you guys"?

(Sorry, everyone gettin all hot n bothered IM trying to lighten the mood)

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:22 AM

But it is what the Republican party has argued. And you still seemingly want to vote for them. That's what gets me. They're proving themselves to be incredibly irresponsible and hypocritical. They cannot be trusted to be elected again.

Is the Republican Party incredibly irresponsible and hypocritical? YES!

But the other Party is JUST AS BAD.

Thats why I do not vote on party - I vote on people. I like Palin the most of the four people on the ballet, so I am voting for her through McCain.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:23 AM

A completely irrelevant point...

It is very relevant. It's a tangible example of our failure in Iraq.

Where's all the cheap oil?

Why are kids still getting killed more and more everyday?

When will the Iraqis stand up for themselves?

This war is a joke started by a incompetent administration who was out for blood and money for their friends. Face it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:23 AM

School vouchers?
Redistricting in Texas?
Prayer in school?
Constitutional Amendments saying that a marriage is between a man and a woman?

They try to benefit christians all the time.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

School vouchers help all people, especially those having to deal with poor inner city schools.

Redistricting is done in all places.

Addendum

09-04-2008, 11:24 AM

You don't think we have found victory in Iraq? :huh:

Bush declared victory in Iraq in May 2003, and then 3 weeks later McCain said on the floor of the Senate, "We won a massive victory in a few weeks, and we did so with very limited loss of American and allied lives. We were able to end aggression with minimum overall loss of life, and we were even able to greatly reduce the civilian casualties of Afghani and Iraqi citizens.”

Victory was declared 5 years ago. Let's go home

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:24 AM

Is the Republican Party incredibly irresponsible and hypocritical? YES!

But the other Party is JUST AS BAD.

Not based on the actions of the people within each party.

Thats why I do not vote on party - I vote on people. I like Palin the most of the four people on the ballet, so I am voting for her through McCain.

I agree - vote on people. Good idea.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 11:24 AM

Yep. They're going to continue to tie her to the same anchor as McCain, that anchor being the Bush Administration. And they just keep giving the Dem's rope to do it with. It's a sound strategy and the RNC obviously can't figure out how the hell to deal with it.

jag

Yeah, I saw that article too. It's definitely on now. And the attacks on community organizing is REALLY not going over well with people...that is, people outside the RNC delegation. :whatever:

I wish Obama would do a speech on what community organizing truly entails...and then put her butt back in check.

sinewave

09-04-2008, 11:25 AM

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:27 AM

It is very relevant. It's a tangible example of our failure in Iraq.

Where's all the cheap oil?

Why are kids still getting killed more and more everyday?

When will the Iraqis stand up for themselves?

This war is a joke started by a incompetent administration who was out for blood and money for their friends. Face it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

1. It wasn't a war for oil.

2. Violence has dramatically decreased in the country.

3. We just handed over Anbar province to Iraq, and General Petraeus says they will soon be able to handle Baghdad by themselves.

Your attacks are about a year too late. :huh:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:27 AM

It is very relevant. It's a tangible example of our failure in Iraq.

Where's all the cheap oil?

Why are kids still getting killed more and more everyday?

When will the Iraqis stand up for themselves?

This war is a joke started by a incompetent administration who was out for blood and money for their friends. Face it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Well, considering that we just handed Anbar province over to the Iraqis, and General Petraeus says that our troops could soon be out of Baghdad, I'd say the answer to your question is.......Now.

So the administration just wanted to kill some folks and make their buddies rich? Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:28 AM

Not based on the actions of the people within each party.

Again - how so?

Where is your lack of outrage for Obama claiming to be an "agent of change" and then picking a Washington institution as his VP simply to help his image?

danoyse

09-04-2008, 11:28 AM

But those polls are post-convention bump and post Palin-scandals. Throughout late July to mid-August McCain enjoyed tremendous success as a result of his attack ads.

They were tied, I wouldn't call it tremendous success for either of them.

McCain is going to get a great bump, I think...the game is going to be if Obama can stay ahead.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:31 AM

So the administration just wanted to kill some folks and make their buddies rich? Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

You are far too trusting. They still haven't stood up for themselves. You're telling me that uncontested contracts to Haliburton and all the price gouging they did hasn't concerned you at all? And Cheney's affiliation with that company doesn't perk your ears up any?

And the say liberals are naive.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:32 AM

They were tied, I wouldn't call it tremendous success for either of them.

McCain is going to get a great bump, I think...the game is going to be if Obama can stay ahead.

McCain started to edge out Obama.

But yes - McCain being tied with Obama IS a TREMENDOUS success.

This is the hardest climate for a Republican to win since '76.

The Master

09-04-2008, 11:32 AM

He just hides while he sends his attack dogs out to make ridiculous statements that he knows he himself would not be able to back up.

He didn't send anyone out to downplay her experience.This whole talk on Palin's experience was sparked after many months of McCain's constant attack on Obama's.

This is something the Dems had to endure for almost a year.

With Palin as his running mate, McCain is going to have to rely on more than just attacking Obama's "lack of experience".

That's not going to help him win the election.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:32 AM

School vouchers help all people, especially those having to deal with poor inner city schools.

Redistricting is done in all places.

Vouchers help rich kids. And the redistricting done in Texas by the Republicans was all gerrymandering and you know it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:33 AM

You are far too trusting. They still haven't stood up for themselves. You're telling me that uncontested contracts to Haliburton and all the price gouging they did hasn't concerned you at all? And Cheney's affiliation with that company doesn't perk your ears up any?

And the say liberals are naive.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

I'm sure certain people have profited from the war. Your point was that the only reason Bush waged war was for "blood" and to make his buddies rich. Yes, there will be people who profit off of the contracts. But your suggestion was that blood and money were the only motives for removing a sadistic dictator and establishing a democracy in the Middle East that can be a beacon of hope for the others in the region living under oppressive tyranies.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:34 AM

Again - how so?

Where is your lack of outrage for Obama claiming to be an "agent of change" and then picking a Washington institution as his VP simply to help his image?

Statements like this make you not worth my time.

Novice.

:yay:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:35 AM

He didn't send anyone out to downplay her experience.This whole talk on Palin's experience was sparked after many months of McCain's constant attack on Obama's.

This is something the Dems had to endure for almost a year.

With Palin as his running mate, McCain is going to have to rely on more than just attacking Obama's "lack of experience".

That's not going to help him win the election.

He has been. He is going after Obama for his lack of judgment, his associations with radical people, his plans to raise taxes and to increase the size and scope of the already-too-large-and-intrusive Imperial Federal Government....Democrats are the only ones peddling the line that Obama's lack of experience is the only thing Republicans are calling him on. That simply is not the case.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:36 AM

Vouchers help rich kids. And the redistricting done in Texas by the Republicans was all gerrymandering and you know it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Rich kids don't need vouchers. Rich parents can afford to send their rich kids to rich private schools.

The kids who need vouchers are the ones whose parents can not afford to provide them with a quality education and who are forced to attend underperforming schools simply based on the zip code in which they live. Vouchers help those without the means to obtain a quality education.

sinewave

09-04-2008, 11:38 AM

As mayor, she had to make decisions every day (for 2 terms) that affected the lives of her town. As governor she had to make decisions on a daily basis that affected the lives of nearly 700,000 people and the mass of nearly 700,000 square miles. She made decisions on everything from the state budget to building a new gas pipeline to protecting wildlife areas. She took on corruption in the Republican Party of Alaska and ousted several members of the "good old boy network." She was elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors, due to recognition of the outstanding job she did as mayor of Alaska. She cut taxes in Alaska and when gas prices spiked and her state saw a tax surplus that was over the state's budget, she returned the woman to every man, woman and child in Alaska in the form of a $1200 check to each citizen.

Now tell me: what accomplishments of BO make him so fit for the presidency?

see, this is what i'm talking about. you point out that obama lacks a ton of experience, which i agree with, but you're going out of your way to make what little experience palin has a plus. can you not see the hypocrisy in that? his time as a community organizer, state legislator and senate term don't count as experience but her time as a mayor and governor does? they've got roughly the same amount of experience, time-wise and both involve legislation and supporting their constituents. why is one more important than the other? it's ridiculous.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:38 AM

I'm sure certain people have profited from the war. Your point was that the only reason Bush waged war was for "blood" and to make his buddies rich. Yes, there will be people who profit off of the contracts. But your suggestion was that blood and money were the only motives for removing a sadistic dictator and establishing a democracy in the Middle East that can be a beacon of hope for the others in the region living under oppressive tyranies.

Why don't we invade Cuba? Why don't we invade North Korea? Tibet? Taiwan?

No profit there. Just real problems.

And the last I checked Turkey was a beacon of hope for the region. Face it. We went to war to fund the Military Industrial Complex.

Eisenhower was right.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

The Senator

09-04-2008, 11:40 AM

Palin keeps making pop in :cmad:

Oh well-- found this article earlier which I think is a perfect response to Palin's claims that the media are being very, very mean to her.

Why the Media Should Apologize
by Roger Simon, the Politico

ST. PAUL, Minn. — On behalf of the media, I would like to say we are sorry.

On behalf of the elite media, I would like to say we are very sorry.

We have asked questions this week that we should never have asked.

We have asked pathetic questions like: Who is Sarah Palin? What is her record? Where does she stand on the issues? And is she is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?

We have asked mean questions like: How well did John McCain know her before he selected her? How well did his campaign vet her? And was she his first choice?

Bad questions. Bad media. Bad.

It is not our job to ask questions. Or it shouldn’t be. To hear from the pols at the Republican National Convention this week, our job is to endorse and support the decisions of the pols.

Sarah Palin hit the nail on the head Wednesday night (and several in the audience wish she had hit some reporters on the head instead) when she said: “I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.”

But where did we go wrong with Sarah Palin? Let me count the ways:

First, we should have stuck to the warm, human interest stuff like how she likes mooseburgers and hit an important free throw at her high school basketball tournament even though she had a stress fracture.

Second, we should have stuck to the press release stuff like how she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere (after she supported it).

Third, we should never have strayed into the other stuff. Like when The Washington Post recently wrote: “Palin is under investigation by a bipartisan state legislative body. … Palin had promised to cooperate with the legislative inquiry, but this week she hired a lawyer to fight to move the case to the jurisdiction of the state personnel board, which Palin appoints.”

Why go there? What trees does that plant?

Fourth, we should stop making with all the questions already. She gave a really good speech. And why go beyond that? As we all know, speeches cannot be written by others and rehearsed for days. They are true windows to the soul.

Unless they are delivered by Barack Obama, that is. In which case, as Palin said Wednesday, speeches are just a “cloud of rhetoric.”

Fifth, we should stop reporting on the families of the candidates. Unless the candidates want us to.

Sarah Palin wanted the media to report on her teenage son, Track, who enlisted in the Army on Sept. 11, 2007, and soon will deploy to Iraq.

Sarah Palin did not want the media to report on her teenage daughter, Bristol, who is pregnant and unmarried.

Sarah Palin thinks that one is good for her campaign and one is not, and that the media should report only on what is good for her campaign. That is our job, and that is our duty. If that is not actually in the Constitution, it should be. (And someday may be.)

The official theme of the convention’s third day was “prosperity,” but the unofficial theme was “the media are really, really awful.”

Even Mike Huckabee, who campaigned for president this year by saying “I am a conservative, but I am not mad at anybody,” discovered Wednesday night that he is mad at somebody.

“I’d like to thank the elite media for doing something,” Huckabee said, “that, quite frankly, I didn’t think could be done: unify the Republican party and all of America in support of John McCain and Sarah Palin.”

And could that be the real point of the attacks on the media? To unify the Republican Party?

No, that is simply the cynical, media view.

Though as Lily Tomlin says, “No matter how cynical I get, it’s just never enough to keep up.”

I couldn’t resist that. For which I am sorry.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 11:40 AM

He has been. He is going after Obama for his lack of judgment, his associations with radical people, his plans to raise taxes and to increase the size and scope of the already-too-large-and-intrusive Imperial Federal Government....Democrats are the only ones peddling the line that Obama's lack of experience is the only thing Republicans are calling him on. That simply is not the case.

No.

They haven't been talking about his associations much at all. Just the tax deal and big government. However, you must admit that the BIGGEST thrust of McCain's argument up until last week was experience. And they are going there again now Sarah's in the mix. Now, let's see how these two stack up:

Barack Obama:
B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million people

Sarah Palin:
Bachelor's in journalism from University of Idaho
4 years Wasilla City Council (8000 people)
6 years Wasilla mayor (8000 people)
1 year "Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission"
20 months governor of a state with 660,000 people

Those are the hardcore facts.

Does the Repub party really think we're so stupid that we would believe Palin is actually more experienced than Obama? She tried selling it last night and the whole time I'm like "Give me a fricking break…"

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:41 AM

Rich kids don't need vouchers. Rich parents can afford to send their rich kids to rich private schools.

The kids who need vouchers are the ones whose parents can not afford to provide them with a quality education and who are forced to attend underperforming schools simply based on the zip code in which they live. Vouchers help those without the means to obtain a quality education.

So who gets these vouchers? White christian kids? If this allows kids to move to better schools then what happens when all the kids from a "bad" school move to a different school? Doesn't the different school then just become "bad" as well.

Vouchers are designed to get white kids out of black / hispanic neighborhoods. That's all.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:41 AM

see, this is what i'm talking about. you point out that obama lacks a ton of experience, which i agree with, but you're going out of your way to make what little experience palin has a plus. can you not see the hypocrisy in that? his time as a community organizer, state legislator and senate term don't count as experience but her time as a mayor and governor does? they've got roughly the same amount of experience, time-wise and both involve legislation and supporting their constituents. why is one more important than the other? it's ridiculous.

Because she made decisions on a daily basis that affected the lives of thousands and millions of people. She has actually started and run a successful business and has executive experience at the city and state level.

Tell me: what accomplishes of BO's tenure as community organizer, state senator and junior Senator from Illinois make him qualified to make decisions at the highest executive post in the land? What issues has he been faced with that have tested him and proven him fit to make the tough decisions that face this country?

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:43 AM

So who gets these vouchers? White christian kids? If this allows kids to move to better schools then what happens when all the kids from a "bad" school move to a different school? Doesn't the different school then just become "bad" as well.

Vouchers are designed to get white kids out of black / hispanic neighborhoods. That's all.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

The kids don't make a school "bad." It is the administration that fails teh students.

Say an inner-city school is not providing a quality education for its students, but a school 10 minutes outside of town is better preparing its students for a successful life? You're opposed to a smart, driven kid from the first school being afforded the opportunity to enroll in another school to obtain a quality education?

Superman

09-04-2008, 11:45 AM

http://palinforvp.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-sarah-palin.html

This blog is the result of about a month worth of research on potential Republican Vice-Presidential candidates for the 2008 election. I had been considerably less than thrilled with all of the early speculation, mostly swirling around second-tier presidential candidates, so I decided to see if there was anyone better suited for the job that I hadn't been hearing about. So, I developed the following profile for the perfect VP candidate (using Rudy Giuliani as my presumptive presidential candidate):

1) A energetic, young, fresh face who will energize the electorate
2) Not connected to the current administration
3) Pro-Life
4) Pro-Gun
5) A woman or minority to counter Hillary or Obama and put to rest the idea that America only elects white males

One of the first names I found that fit these qualifications was that of Sarah Palin, the recently elected Governor of Alaska. I knew that I had stumbled upon a fantastic candidate for national office, but I kept looking in the hope that I could find other potentially viable choices. However, after looking at every GOP governor, senator, and congressperson, I found that Palin had only become more appealing.

She was certainly energetic and young, having become governor at only 42 years of age. Watching her speches and campaign ads, I discovered that she was definitely a new kid of leader, coming off more as a spunky soccer-mom than a stuffy career politician. As for abortion, she was staunchly pro-life; and as a lifetime NRA member she was the most pro-gun candidate in the country. Furthermore, her experiences in rural Alaska provided a perfect complement to the big-city credentials of candidates like Giuliani. Her moderately libertarian positions on most other issues also match up perfectly to Giuliani.

There was thing about Palin that initially worried me - "lack of experience". She had only been elected governor in 2006, and her only previous experience was as a two terms as a city councilwoman and two more as mayor in Wasilla, AK (population 8,471 in 2005) followed up by a failed campaign for lieutenant governor and a brief stint on Alaska's Oil and Natural Gas Conservation Commission. This didn't seem very appealing at first, but then I took the time to look closer at Palin's history. What I had failed to realize was that she had habitually knocked of powerful incumbent opponents and was a quick learner on the job. In the 2006 gubernatorial election, she rolled over scandal-prone incumbent Frank Murkowski in the GOP primary, then went on to defeat former governor Tony Knowles in the general election - pretty impressive. Further back, she had knocked off an entrenched incumbent to become mayor of Wasilla, then developed a reputation as a hard-nosed, effective mayor. Her performance in Wasilla got her elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors and earned her the nickname "Sarah Barracuda".

In the end, I decided that Sarah Palin had actually compiled a rather astounding record of achievements in her 42 years, and was more than capable of making the jump to the national level. So now I ask you who you would rather have as your Vice-President. You could accept conventional wisdom and choose from the lineup of old men currently being bantered about, or you could choose an inspiring leader like Sarah Palin. As for me, I'm going with "Sarah Barracuda", a candidate who will help us win the election and then deliver solid results.

This is just a quick list. I'm at work so I can't really delve too deep at the moment. I will when I can, I promise. But right now there's this hippy kid loitering in my store and generally bugging the crap out of me, so I gotta deal with him at the moment.:huh:

That tells me nothing. So a guy at a Right Wing blog got the VP pick he wanted, So what?

What has she done while she's been governor that makes her experienced enough to be VP? What did she do while she was mayor that make her experienced enough to be VP? All that tells me is that she beat some other people to be mayor and governor and that she's pro life and a NRA member.

I'm sorry but that tells me very little about what she's done. All that is is a guy on a Right Wing blog that wanted someone that nobody knew to be McCain's VP, Nothing more.:csad:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:45 AM

Why don't we invade Cuba? Why don't we invade North Korea? Tibet? Taiwan?

No profit there. Just real problems.

And the last I checked Turkey was a beacon of hope for the region. Face it. We went to war to fund the Military Industrial Complex.

Eisenhower was right.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

We don't invade Cuba because they do not pose a significant threat to us and the region, as Saddam did. We don't invade North Korea because Kim-Jong Il decided to play nice, and in fact, we are now offering them aid and assistance and a trade partnership. We don't invade Tibet because we are not threatened by Tibet, and because we don't want to start a war with China. Ditto for Taiwan.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:45 AM

The kids don't make a school "bad." It is the administration that fails teh students.

Say an inner-city school is not providing a quality education for its students, but a school 10 minutes outside of town is better preparing its students for a successful life? You're opposed to a smart, driven kid from the first school being afforded the opportunity to enroll in another school to obtain a quality education?

And when you say quality education, you of course mean teaching Intelligent Design.

What happens when all the kids from "Bad" School leave and go to "Good" School?

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Addendum

09-04-2008, 11:46 AM

Because she made decisions on a daily basis that affected the lives of thousands and millions of people.

There's not a million people in the State of Alaska.

sinewave

09-04-2008, 11:46 AM

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:47 AM

Barack Obama:
B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million people

Sarah Palin:
Bachelor's in journalism from University of Idaho
4 years Wasilla City Council (8000 people)
6 years Wasilla mayor (8000 people)
1 year "Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission"
20 months governor of a state with 660,000 people

Those are the hardcore facts.

Does the Repub party really think we're so stupid that we would believe Palin is actually more experienced than Obama? She tried selling it last night and the whole time I'm like "Give me a fricking break…"

Education is not a replacement for experience - again, Bush has multiple ivy league degrees, Truman had none. So you have 11 years of government experience compared to 13 years.

Plus Senator is not the same as Governor - Senators have long periods where they are not in Washington and not on the job. Legislator is not the same as leader - which is exactly what the President is.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:49 AM

Statements like this make you not worth my time.

Novice.

:yay:

:lmao:

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 11:50 AM

Vouchers help rich kids. And the redistricting done in Texas by the Republicans was all gerrymandering and you know it.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Rich kids can afford to go to private school without government help - vouchers help kids that can't afford private school.

Sure - it was gerrymandering by the GOP, and in other states the DNC does it. Its not a one party problem.

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 11:51 AM

God damn Obama is rocking the polls.

ShadowBoxing

09-04-2008, 11:51 AM

Plus Senator is not the same as Governor - Senators have long periods where they are not in Washington and not on the job. Legislator is not the same as leader - which is exactly what the President is.So then, by that logic, McCain should be the Vice President, since same as Obama and Biden he lacks executive experience.

Lightning Strykez!

09-04-2008, 11:54 AM

Education is not a replacement for experience - again, Bush has multiple ivy league degrees, Truman had none. So you have 11 years of government experience compared to 13 years.

Plus Senator is not the same as Governor - Senators have long periods where they are not in Washington and not on the job. Legislator is not the same as leader - which is exactly what the President is.

WHAT????

Are you saying that education does not play a huge role in the experience area? Have you tried getting a six-figure job on the strength of experience alone--without a BS?

Please. You need both--they are intrinsically tied to eachother, as well as to judgement. Obama trumps Palin in all three areas.

sinewave

09-04-2008, 11:54 AM

Because she made decisions on a daily basis that affected the lives of thousands and millions of people. She has actually started and run a successful business and has executive experience at the city and state level.

Tell me: what accomplishes of BO's tenure as community organizer, state senator and junior Senator from Illinois make him qualified to make decisions at the highest executive post in the land? What issues has he been faced with that have tested him and proven him fit to make the tough decisions that face this country?

and state legislators and senators don't make decisions on a daily basis? "executive experience" sounds like it's the new republican buzz term. why does her experience make her more qualified to be president than obama?

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:55 AM

:huh:

That tells me nothing. So a guy at a Right Wing blog got the VP pick he wanted, So what?

What has she done while she's been governor that makes her experienced enough to be VP? What did she do while she was mayor that make her experienced enough to be VP? All that tells me is that she beat some other people to be mayor and governor and that she's pro life and a NRA member.

I'm sorry but that tells me very little about what she's done. All that is is a guy on a Right Wing blog that wanted someone that nobody knew to be McCain's VP, Nothing more.:csad:

Perhaps this is more palatable for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Governor Murkowski appointed Palin to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, where she chaired the Commission from 2003 to 2004, and also served as Ethics Supervisor.[38] Palin resigned in January 2004 in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Republican members.[6][39][40]

After resigning, Palin filed formal complaints against the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich,[41] and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes.[42] She accused Ruedrich, one of her fellow commissioners, of doing work for the party on public time and working closely with a company he was supposed to be regulating. Ruedrich and Renkes both resigned and Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.

Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska, including in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), where such development has been the subject of a national debate.[49] She also helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits. Palin has followed through on plans to create a new sub-cabinet group of advisers to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska.

Shortly after taking office, Palin rescinded 35 appointments made by Murkowski in the last hours of his administration, including that of his former chief of staff James "Jim" Clark to the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority.[53][54]

In March 2007, Palin presented the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (AGIA) as the new legal vehicle for building a natural gas pipeline from the state's North Slope.[55] This negated a deal by the previous governor to grant the contract to a coalition including BP (her husband's former employer). Only one legislator, Representative Ralph Samuels,[56] voted against the measure,[57] and in June, Palin signed it into law.[58] On January 5, 2008, Palin announced that a Canadian company, TransCanada Corporation, was the sole AGIA-compliant applicant.[59][60] In August 2008, Palin signed a bill into law giving the state of Alaska authority to award TransCanada Pipelines $500 million in seed money and a license to build and operate the $26-billion pipeline to transport natural gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48 through Canada.[61]

In response to high oil and gas prices, and the resulting state government budget surplus, Palin proposed giving Alaskans $100-a-month energy debit cards. She also proposed providing grants to electrical utilities so that they would reduce customers' rates.[62] She subsequently dropped the debit card proposal, and in its place she proposed to send each Alaskan $1,200 from the windfall surplus resulting from high oil prices

Shortly after becoming governor, Palin canceled a contract for the construction of an 11-mile (18 km) gravel road outside Juneau to a mine. This reversed a decision made in the closing days of the Murkowski administration.[70] She also followed through on a campaign promise to sell the Westwind II jet purchased (on a state government credit account, against the wishes of the Legislature) by the Murkowski administration for $2.7 million in 2005. In August 2007, the jet was listed on eBay and later sold for $2.1 million.[71]

In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budget—the largest in Alaska's history.[72] At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to nearly $1.6 billion

Shortly after becoming governor, Palin canceled a contract for the construction of an 11-mile (18 km) gravel road outside Juneau to a mine. This reversed a decision made in the closing days of the Murkowski administration.[70] She also followed through on a campaign promise to sell the Westwind II jet purchased (on a state government credit account, against the wishes of the Legislature) by the Murkowski administration for $2.7 million in 2005. In August 2007, the jet was listed on eBay and later sold for $2.1 million.[71]

In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budget—the largest in Alaska's history.[72] At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to nearly $1.6 billion.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 11:56 AM

We don't invade Cuba because they do not pose a significant threat to us and the region, as Saddam did. We don't invade North Korea because Kim-Jong Il decided to play nice, and in fact, we are now offering them aid and assistance and a trade partnership. We don't invade Tibet because we are not threatened by Tibet, and because we don't want to start a war with China. Ditto for Taiwan.

If Cuba isn't a threat then why do we have an embargo on them and not Korea? Kim Jong Il tested a nuke in 2007. Unlike Sadaam. And you're telling me he's playing nice? So we thought we'd just kick back for a few years eh? He destroyed a water tower that was used to prepare the plutonium and now all is good? This tower could be rebuilt tomorrow. North Korea is way more unstable than Iraq ever was. The difference? Oil and G.W.H. Bush.

Looks like N. Korea was only stalling anyway.

N.Y. Times. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/world/asia/27korea.html?ex=1235448000&en=11f089e6c2b4980d&ei=5087&excamp=GGGNnkorea&WT.srch=1&WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_id=GN-S-E-GG-NA-S-n_korea)

And we won't help Tibet or Taiwan but we will help Kuwait?

You see a pattern in any of this?

Open your eyes.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 11:58 AM

and state legislators and senators don't make decisions on a daily basis? "executive experience" sounds like it's the new republican buzz term. why does her experience make her more qualified to be president than obama?

Because she is responsible for making decisions on a daily basis that have a direct effect on the lives of the citizens of Alaska and the town of Wasila. She has balanced budgets, cut spending, grown the treasury in her state, developed pipelines to bring natural gas to the rest of the country, fought corrupt members of her own party in Alaska...That's just to name a few things.

Now tell me: what tough decisions has BO made that show him ready to handle the job of president, much less that of a convenience store clerk?

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 11:59 AM

Being a pow means hell be a good President?? :huh:

Obama has done that as well :huh:

When has Obama ever served in the military, much less become a POW?

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 12:00 PM

So then, by that logic, McCain should be the Vice President, since same as Obama and Biden he lacks executive experience.

*sigh* there is a big difference between decades of legislative experience and less than one term.

LS was comparing Palin's experience to Obama's - not Palin's experience to a figure like Biden or McCain. There is a great difference there.

WHAT????

Are you saying that education does not play a huge role in the experience area? Have you tried getting a six-figure job on the strength of experience alone--without a BS?

Please. You need both--they are intrinsically tied to eachother, as well as to judgement. Obama trumps Palin in all three areas.

Yes - I am saying that education does not play a huge role in real experience. I would rather have someone that has worked 10 years in business who never had a degree over a someone who just graduated with an MBA.

There is no scholarly education that prepares you to be President. Palin has more experience working in government than Obama, and I would argue she has a better record in government than Obama.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 12:00 PM

And when you say quality education, you of course mean teaching Intelligent Design.

What happens when all the kids from "Bad" School leave and go to "Good" School?

:thing: :doom: :thing:

The schools will have to compete to attract students. Competition likewise leads to better performance. If the school can not attract enough students, it will close and the failures that run it will be out of a job. Competition benefits everyone.

And where the hell do you get off with that "Intelligent Design" comment? Have you ever, even once, seen me make the statement that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools? Have you ever, even once, seen me argue that Evolution should not be taught in schools?

Grow up. If you can not argue a point without making stuff up, then just stop.

Superman

09-04-2008, 12:00 PM

Perhaps this is more palatable for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_PalinThat's a little better. Although like many on the Right likes to say whenever a Obama supporter uses wikipedia as a source....

I'll take that info with a grain of salt.

But atleast you tried. Thank you.:yay:

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 12:01 PM

Rich kids can afford to go to private school without government help - vouchers help kids that can't afford private school.

Sure - it was gerrymandering by the GOP, and in other states the DNC does it. Its not a one party problem.

But you said that Republicans don't tend to support legislation that supports certain demographics and there is one right there.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:01 PM

I finally found out her level of education. She has a BA, Communications/Journalism, University of Idaho, 1987.

Oh boy.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

My last premier didn't even have college and he managed to turn my province into an economic powerhouse.

A formal education doesn't always mean everything.

StorminNorman

09-04-2008, 12:02 PM

But you said that Republicans don't tend to support legislation that supports certain demographics and there is one right there.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

School Vouchers don't exclusively help only certain demographics. :huh: Everyone benefits - ESPECIALLY inner city kids.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:03 PM

Truman lived in a simpler time, today you need a Masters to get an Administrative Assisstant position (that's several places under a manager) in a Federal agency. I should know...I've been trying to get one. Hell, my cousin, who has a master's works for the State Department and is only make fifty grand a year.

I wouldn't call managing the US during the Korean war, simpler times.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:04 PM

And I would argue that such requirements prevent people who would be better at their position than those simply academically qualified.

There is no class that prepares you to be President.

There is one class that every president must take to be a successful one.

It's the URMYBtch diploma.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:04 PM

Why do people keep eating up that McCain was a former POW? Do people not realize that POW's more than often have severe mental issues.

We know about McCain's temper.

Addendum

09-04-2008, 12:05 PM

I wouldn't call managing the US during the Korean war, simpler times.

He did manage a tie, so it was kinda simple

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 12:05 PM

The schools will have to compete to attract students. Competition likewise leads to better performance. If the school can not attract enough students, it will close and the failures that run it will be out of a job. Competition benefits everyone.

And where the hell do you get off with that "Intelligent Design" comment? Have you ever, even once, seen me make the statement that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools? Have you ever, even once, seen me argue that Evolution should not be taught in schools?

Grow up. If you can not argue a point without making stuff up, then just stop.

You get any air up on that high horse of yours? You do nothing but condescend. You must be in a corner.

So you're saying that the party you support does not support Intelligent Design and that vouchers aren't one of the ways that the GOP will pull some kids out of some schools and put them into others with Faith Based initiatives?

Seems like a fair question to me? But I suppose it's easier to act like your being attacked.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:06 PM

It was a good one-liner, you have to admit that.

What did Violence Against Act Woman Act accomplish exactly? I'm pretty sure it was illegal to violently assault women before this bill got signed into law.

Prior to this law, men were allowed to beat their wives, as long as the rod used was no thicker than their thumb.

We have to care for the little woman.

ShadowBoxing

09-04-2008, 12:08 PM

*sigh* there is a big difference between decades of legislative experience and less than one term.

So, therefore Biden is way more experienced than McCain and Palin combined because he's been a Senator since 1973.

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 12:08 PM

School Vouchers don't exclusively help only certain demographics. :huh: Everyone benefits - ESPECIALLY inner city kids.

Everyone doesn't benefit. Schools get closed without students. Remove all the students from one school and distribute them among the others and you get over populated schools.

We should try making schools better instead of overworking the "good" ones.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:09 PM

Noone EVER gives details in the Convention...
Biden and obama danced around themes and injustices...that is all they did...
Dont with the double-standard...

This is how its always been played...granted I wish they would have actual substance...

They tend to release substance with the political newsletters. Very little is said during conventions or even debates, other then how the opponent doesn't measure up.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:10 PM

ShadowBoxing

09-04-2008, 12:10 PM

I wouldn't call managing the US during the Korean war, simpler times.
I was speaking more to the fact that back then a college education was more in line with the level of a PhD or Masters today by comparison to the general population.

The Master

09-04-2008, 12:10 PM

Franklin Richards

09-04-2008, 12:11 PM

My last premier didn't even have college and he managed to turn my province into an economic powerhouse.

A formal education doesn't always mean everything.

I'm sorry if I want my leader to be elite. I want smart guys with good ideas. Call me crazy. I don't want Joe the Vegetable Stand guy interpreting the Constitution.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

kainedamo

09-04-2008, 12:11 PM

Name me three things Obama will do for the American people and how he'll accomplish them, from his convention speech.

Please.

Ask in the Obama thread.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:12 PM

How much do you want to bet she (or the campaign) will cry sexist when he pokes back?

They call her the barracuda in polite political circles.

There's probably a reason for this.

UA-Archangel

09-04-2008, 12:13 PM

SHIV? Color me stupid but what does that stand for? You can PM me if its something too crazy for public. :p

shiv means to shove an icepick into somebody, so they bleed to death.

If you get icepicked, they have to tear you apart in surgery, they just cannot band-aid it.

Tron5000

09-04-2008, 12:13 PM

You get any air up on that high horse of yours? You do nothing but condescend. You must be in a corner.

So you're saying that the party you support does not support Intelligent Design and that vouchers aren't one of the reasons that the GOP wants kids pulled out of some schools and put into others with Faith Based initiatives?

Seems like a fair question to me? But I suppose it's easier to act like your being attacked.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

You said that I meant "Intelligent Design" when I discussed a quality education. You made this about my beliefs, not the GOP. So I will address you based on my beliefs.

In my state of Georgia, the Clayton County School District recently lost its accreditation because it failed to meet 8 of 9 minimum benchmarks for accreditation. The people on the school board are failures, and the majority of the people who work in the schools are worthless. The kids that attend these schools have been receiving a poor education for over a decade, and you can tell that when you hear the children speak. Parents are talking about how they are going to have to move so their children can attend a quality school. However, many are unable to move because they can not sell their homes in the current real estate market.

However, if these children were able to use vouchers, their parents would not have to worry about moving to a new school district. They may have to wake up early to drive their kids to a different school, but they would be allowed to provide their children with a quality education with the tax dollars that they have already spent. They would not be mandated into attending a poor school simply because of the zip code in which they reside.

As far as the GOP is concerned, I am sure there are those who want children to be able to attend Faith-Based schools. Moreover, though, Republicans (like McCain and Palin) understand and believe that children are the greatest natural resource this nation has to offer. As such, they want all children to be able to have the same opportunities as other children, whether their parents make $25 thousand or $25 million.

I thought Democrats were all about equality and opportunity. If that's the case, why do you not want to allow these children to have the best opportunities possible?