The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread)

[The Senator]

Palin's Husband has DWI arrest


ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) — A senior adviser to the McCain campaign confirmed Monday that Todd Palin, husband to Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, was arrested for driving while intoxicated in 1984.

"Yes, 24 years ago he had a DWI," senior McCain adviser Steve Schmidt told reporters in St. Paul.

Schmidt was asked if he was worried about the news, and replied, “I was not.”

The story was first reported by David Brody, a CNN contributor and Christian Broadcasting Network News Senior National Correspondent.


:lmao: :lmao:

[ShadowBoxing]

What? Now there's nude pics?
There are a ton floating around now. About three or four credible sources report she has some. It wouldn't surprise me. I know a ton of figure girls and most of them get shots done.

[Marx]

The pic kaine sent me a link to is a fake. Not surprised.

At any rate, with all this controversy coming out of the woodwork just in the last few days about Palin's various dealings and personal life, I HAVE to wonder exactly just how well McCain's team really veted her. The controversial stuff just keeps piling up and up, to the point that you'd think someone on his team would have said "You know, this one's got way too much baggage even if it's all untrue and it could really work against us. Maybe we should look harder at Olympia Snow or Kaye Hutchinson." if they were really intent on giving a woman a crack at the VP slot.

jag

Since Sarah Palin was picked, in part, to pull in the hard right, I'll be curious to see how they react to the news that their candidate is the mother of an unwed pregnant teen. (Since the hard right normally has such a problem with that...)

[SentinelMind]

Palin's Husband has DWI arrest



:lmao: :lmao:

A DUI 24 years ago is a huge ordeal? But doing cocaine and every hard drug you can find is acceptable for a Presidential candidate. Do you see who are the occupants in the White House now?

[ShadowBoxing]

:lmao: :lmao:
This day is amazing.

[StrainedEyes]

I wonder how Palin is handling all of this. She went from no one knowing her name, to having her entire life scrutinized in no time.

[The Senator]

I wonder how Palin is handling all of this. She went from no one knowing her name, to having her entire life scrutinized in no time.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/609/smallestviolinwz4.jpg

Well, you know, if she was actually vetted maybe this wouldn't have been such a problem...

[Marx]

^:lmao:

[souvlaki]

Just when you thought the game was over...

Fox News just reported that Sarah Palin's 17-year-old daughter is pregnant and will be marrying the baby's father. What are the odds? Really...

Oh dear lord... Wow. I mean, seriously? This is all a joke, right? This candidate cannot possibly exist. She's just too perfect.

[Matt]

Oy...McCain's staff blows it again with the vetting.

[JackMercy]

The liberal's desire that will do so is sick and beyond hypocritical. You support a Presidential candidate that openly admits they did every hard drug they can find decades ago. You support that candidate, yet you want to attack the husband of VP candidate for what they did years ago?

First off, the daughter of the VP candidate is not running for public office. So if the daughter of the VP candidate ran on platform of don't get pregnant, condemns others who get pregnant before marraige.....and is then caught getting pregnant before a marraige, then that would be a legitimate concern. But attacking daughter of a VP candidate for something for a private matter is disgusting.

What liberals don't understand is that having a set of traditional, conservative, family values or principles doesn't mean the person or family is going to be perfect. The argument that we should scrap having values because someone fails to live up to them is absurd, the point of values is to have a standard, target that provides consistency, stability, and synergy for the person to live by. Humans make mistakes....will always make mistakes...doesn't mean that living by a set of objective principles has no worth.


Don't know about DailyKos, just following the news recently from you guys here and CNN's homepage.

By the way, did I ever say that I supported Obama or that I was a "liberal"? You're assuming a lot about me from just my comments on digesting the "news"...

Who's "attacking" anyone? I'm merely commenting on the amazing amount of un-flattering news that's come out about Palin within the last three days... Who's to say I believe in any politicians? This is just great entertainment -- and yes, newsworthy.

Who said anything about "scrapping" family values? I didn't. I think you're making an assumption that I am "one of them" by a few comments I've made on a message board. By the way, did I ever mention that I was affiliated with any party or agenda?

Did I ever say they had to be "perfect"? All I said was that Palin's family situation might not have necessarily been the best example to show off the so-called "traditional family values" that her party supports.

[Matt]

Oh dear lord... Wow. I mean, seriously? This is all a joke, right? This candidate cannot possibly exist.

Oh man, I did NOT see that coming...


So, I'm just gonna throw this out there...

The 17 year old isn't really pregnant but is faking it to protect the 14 year old! :woot: :cwink:

[souvlaki]

Oh man, I did NOT see that coming...


So, I'm just gonna throw this out there...

The 17 year old isn't really pregnant but is faking it to protect the 14 year old! :woot: :cwink:

:lmao:

[Marx]

Oy...McCain's staff blows it again with the vetting.

I am seriously doubting if she was even vetted at all...

[Marx]

Oh man, I did NOT see that coming...


So, I'm just gonna throw this out there...

The 17 year old isn't really pregnant but is faking it to protect the 14 year old! :woot: :cwink:

:funny:

[Matt]

She's gotta step down. It will hurt McCain, but keeping her on will lose him this election. He might still have a shot if she ends it now.

[kainedamo]

If Obama had chosen Hillary it would just have been such an obvious suck up to female voters and a real attention grabbing stunt. It wouldn't be seen as anything other than trying to grab the maximum number of votes, instead of picking someone that can actually work for you.

I imagine the same guys here, defending the undefendable choice of Palin as VP, if the shoe were on the other foot Obama would be called a panderer for picking Hillary. And rightfully so.

If Obama had picked Hillary for VP it would have looked so incensere.

Kinda like how McCain looks now.

If he wanted to choose a female vp, McCain that is, Condoleezza would have been an exellent choice. At the very least she has so much more to offer than Palin.

[danoyse]

Seriously, they're trying to cover up one rumor by saying: "She couldn't possibly have been knocked up then...because she's knocked up now!"

And Obama isn't touching this one with a 10-foot-pole, here's his comment:

"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

I would find it amazing if the McCain camp tries to show how OK it was for Bristol Palin to be pregnant by using Obama's mother as an example.
:lmao:

[Franklin Richards]

Is this going all Harriet Miers on us?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[souvlaki]

I am seriously doubting if she was even vetted at all...

I'll have to find the article where I saw it, but apparently she wasn't. At all... Like the McCain team only started vetting her in the last few days after she was already selected, which obviously is completely pointless.

[Marx]

She's gotta step down. It will hurt McCain, but keeping her on will lose him this election. He might still have a shot if she ends it now.

I'm still wondering how the Religious Right will react to this. You know...since they NORMALLY have a problem with unwed pregnant teenagers...

[kainedamo]

She's gotta step down. It will hurt McCain, but keeping her on will lose him this election. He might still have a shot if she ends it now.

Wow... really? You were defending her just a couple of pages ago.

I haven't watched TV all weekend so I don't know what the televised media is like. I thought the negativity was mostly internet hype, but is it really that bad?

Is it just her daughter being pregnant that will cause a backlash?

[jaguarr]

Oh man, I did NOT see that coming...


So, I'm just gonna throw this out there...

The 17 year old isn't really pregnant but is faking it to protect the 14 year old! :woot: :cwink:

LOL!

She's gotta step down. It will hurt McCain, but keeping her on will lose him this election. He might still have a shot if she ends it now.

I don't see it happening. Unless everything just blows up in McCain and Palin's face and she's just got absolutely no choice, I think they're both way too stubborn (and possibly stupid) to back down. And if she does step down, it will demonstrate incredibly poor judgment in the candidate selection on McCain's part, no matter how you slice it, especially the longer all of this stuff goes on. McCain may have absolutely killed his campaign by bringing her on as his running mate. It's like she didn't bring a skeleton or two in her closet with her, but a freaking graveyard.

jag

[Comicfilmer]

The 17 year old isn't really pregnant but is faking it to protect the 14 year old! :woot: :cwink:

Priceless, Matt. :grin:


If he wanted to choose a female vp, McCain that is, Condoleezza would have been an exellent choice. At the very least she has so much more to offer than Palin.

I actually have a lot of respect Rice. She would have been a much better choice and could have possibly made McCain a threat in this election. Of course, I don't think she is interested in the position. But everybody says that until they're asked.

[Matt]

I wonder if it could work. Teenage moms are becoming more trendy than taboo now-a-days. Could McCain pull off the biggest PR cou'p of all time and make it work?

[Marx]

Seriously, they're trying to cover up one rumor by saying: "She couldn't possibly have been knocked up then...because she's knocked up now!"

And Obama isn't touching this one with a 10-foot-pole, here's his comment:



I would find it amazing if the McCain camp tries to show how OK it was for Bristol Palin to be pregnant by using Obama's mother as an example.
:lmao:

I think that statement was a very wise decision for Obama. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

I'll have to find the article where I saw it, but apparently she wasn't. At all... Like the McCain team only started vetting her in the last few days after she was already selected, which obviously is completely pointless.

In the article that I posted, it said that John McCain was aware of the daughter's pregnancy before he chose her. :eek:

[danoyse]

I'll have to find the article where I saw it, but apparently she wasn't. At all... Like the McCain team only started vetting her in the last few days after she was already selected, which obviously is completely pointless.

I read an article last night that 8 McCain staffers are in Wasilla now to start the vetting process. Apparently, his people weren't even checking out the local papers to do any research on this person.

[The Senator]

Is this going all Harriet Miers on us?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

It's worse than Harriet Miers, actually. Because Miers wouldn't have cost a candidate an election. Maybe a little bit of controversy, but not an entire election. Palin is the worst plane crash in modern political history, and she may just be the thing the Dems need to bank on a solid victory in November.

[Matt]

Wow... really? You were defending her just a couple of pages ago.

I haven't watched TV all weekend so I don't know what the televised media is like. I thought the negativity was mostly internet hype, but is it really that bad?

Is it just her daughter being pregnant that will cause a backlash?

Barack Obama proved inexperience won't kill a candidate. A 17 year old pregnant daughter from a woman who preached family values will. Its like Spitzer...his political career may have been salvagable, if he didn't take such a moral high horse to every little issue. Now he is done. Just like Palin

[SentinelMind]

In the article that I posted, it said that John McCain was aware of the daughter's pregnancy before he chose her.

The fact that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian didn't seem to discourage the evangelical base from re-electing Bush.

Bush had DUI, Cheney had a DUI. The fact that a woman gets pregnant with her boyfriend and commits to marrying the father and raise the child mitigates the impact of this discovery. If she had gotten an abortion or not married the father...that might raise issues.

[Raiden]

I read an article last night that 8 McCain staffers are in Wasilla now to start the vetting process. Apparently, his people weren't even checking out the local papers to do any research on this person.

Isn't that a little late to start the vetting process?

[Matt]

It's worse than Harriet Miers, actually. Because Miers wouldn't have cost a candidate an election. Maybe a little bit of controversy, but not an entire election. Palin is the worst plane crash in modern political history, and she may just be the thing the Dems need to bank on a solid victory in November.

Make no mistake about it...McCain just handed Obama the election.

[jaguarr]

The fact that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian didn't seem to discourage the evangelical base from re-electing Bush.

Of course they weren't discouraged. Dick Cheney shoots people in the face and has made it abundantly clear that his daughter is off limits. Period.

jag

[kainedamo]

Make no mistake about it...McCain just handed Obama the election.

:wow:

[StorminNorman]

It's worse than Harriet Miers, actually. Because Miers wouldn't have cost a candidate an election. Maybe a little bit of controversy, but not an entire election. Palin is the worst plane crash in modern political history, and she may just be the thing the Dems need to bank on a solid victory in November.

Except that nothing indicates that Palin is doing anything but helping McCain's candidacy.

[Matt]

Give the news time to spread Norm...

[Franklin Richards]

Except that nothing indicates that Palin is doing anything but helping McCain's candidacy.


WTF?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[SentinelMind]

Of course they weren't discouraged. Dick Cheney shoots people in the face and has made it abundantly clear that his daughter is off limits. Period.

jag

So if Palin does the same thing...that goes away? Seriously, I don't see how husband's 25 year old DUI and daughter's pregnancy before a planned marriage is a game changing DOA. I think guys are writing the obituaries a bit too quick.

[The Senator]

Except that nothing indicates that Palin is doing anything but helping McCain's candidacy.

Um, yeah... yesterday. Today's little entourage of scandals may prove that statement false tomorrow.

[Comicfilmer]

Except that nothing indicates that Palin is doing anything but helping McCain's candidacy.

Except the latest Rasmussen Poll, which concludes that undecideds are 31% less likely to vote for McCain following his VP pick.

[JLBats]

It's neat that even if she steps down, the fact that she was chosen in the first place can be used to hit at McCain's (age-addled?) judgment.

[Franklin Richards]

It's big because Mrs. Home Schooling Abstinece Before All Family Values is raising a ho.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

I really don't think Palin's daughter being preggers is going to make any sort of impact. In fact if Palin handles the situation well (which I think she will) it could possibly even help with women voters.

Also, if the Democrats jump on the issue - I think they will finds themselves putting off A LOT of undecided voters.

Again - looking at this as objectively as I can (and I think I am being objective here) I don't think this hurts the ticket at all.

If McCain's campaign thought it would - she wouldn't be here.

[danoyse]

I think that statement was a very wise decision for Obama. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

Obama needs to be very forceful about not taking questions on this issue. McCain's camp is making it out to be the nasty liberal left bloggers trying to take down Palin's family by spreading malicious rumors and making it sound it was Obama's campaign that's letting it happen.

The smartest thing for Obama to do is completely refuse to take the questions and just voice his support for her family.

[Excel]

Well, the media is not exactly running wild with this thing yet.

Make no mistake about it...McCain just handed Obama the election.


for the 2nd time in this process, PLEASE be right! :up: :up: :up:

[Shifty]

So Wasillans are known as valley trash.

29.08.2008 (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/29/dispatch-from-alaska-palin-really.aspx)
Dispatch From Alaska: Palin? Really?

Charles Wohlforth, a lifelong Alaska Democrat and occasional TNR contributor, gives us the word on Palin from up north.

I first met Sarah Palin just after she'd been elected mayor of the little town of Wasilla, Alaska, in October 1996. My first impression was that she didn't seem up to the job.

I had written a Frommer's travel guidebook about Alaska (I live in Anchorage and was on the Municipal Assembly here at the time). In the book, I frankly described Wasilla as a place to skip, "the worst kind of suburban sprawl of highway-fronting shopping malls and gravel lots."

Wasilla boosters were furious and a local media debate erupted. A good many people came in on my side: Wasilla, with a complete lack of community planning, is truly Alaska's least attractive town. I went to speak to a luncheon at the area's visitor's bureau, and that's where I met Palin.

She came across, to be charitable about it, poorly--incapable of more than a big smile and a limp handshake. Maybe she was nervous, or her mind was elsewhere--but on that day, she couldn't even hold up her end in a light conversation.

I eventually came to see her appeal when she ran unsuccessfully for lieutenant governor in 2002. She projected an authenticity and freshness that was very appealing in a state saddled with a corrupt oligarchy of pro-oil Republicans. For Alaskans of Palin's generation (she's 44), the last few years have been a political coming of age. Younger candidates have smashed the state's company-town politics. Palin was among the first to take a stand. Having been in the right place at the right time, with that amazing smile, she shot upward in a way no one has ever done before.

The idea of her being a potential president, however, is laughable. That is to say, at our house this morning, we literally were belly-laughing when we heard the news that John McCain had chosen her. I wouldn't be surprised if the audience she spoke to at McCain's announcement was the largest she ever addressed. Alaska politicians don't use teleprompters. There rarely is an opportunity to orate to more than a hundred people.

Running for governor two years ago, Palin didn't have firm stands on issues, and in debates, she displayed discomfiting shallowness. A moderator had to ask her three times to clarify her position on the critical (for us) issue of indigenous hunting rights. Her victory was simply a vote for change.

In Juneau, while she's known for being uninterested in day-to-day governing, she's chosen a good team to run the state. She's also taken good care of her popularity, which has remained high thanks in part to the comparison with her fellow Alaskan politicians--some of whom have been carted off to jail in the FBI investigation of oil industry corruption in Alaska politics.

Now she's facing her own scandal: Troopergate. In July, Palin fired the beloved commissioner of Public Safety, Walt Monegan, without meaningful explanation. Monegan said he had resisted administration pressure to fire a State Trooper who was in a bitter child custody battle with Palin's sister. Palin first denied the pressure, then released evidence, including a recorded phone call, that backed up Monegan's story. The legislature, which isn't exactly Palin-friendly, hired an ex-prosecutor to investigate.

Senator Ted Stevens's son Ben once referred to people from Palin's Anchorage suburb as "valley trash," and the trooper scandal recalled that image. It was Clampett-style politics.

By most objective measures, she isn't ready to be a single heartbeat away from the presidency. The image of McCain and Palin on stage this morning looked a bit like a graduation picture, of father and daughter. It reminded me as well of the elder George Bush and Dan Quayle.

On the other hand, Palin did well in her speech. She always comes across as likeable on camera. Maybe that's all it takes.

--Charles Wohlforth

[StorminNorman]

WTF?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5700022&page=1


Obama receives favorable reviews from 85% of Democrats while McCain is now viewed favorably by 90% of Republicans. Both men are viewed favorably by 60% of unaffiliated voters. Enthusiasm among Republicans for McCain is up significantly since the announcement of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. Fifty-one percent (51%) of GOP voters now have a Very Favorable opinion of McCain, the first time he has ever topped the 50% level in that measure. On Friday morning, just 43% were that enthusiastic about McCain.

Yes - this obviously doesn't take into account Palin's daughter, but again - I don't think it is going to be a major issue...at all.

[Franklin Richards]

Thomas Eagleton

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Thinkton]

Lets keep these discussions an political matter not an family matter.

[Excel]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5700022&page=1


Yes - this obviously doesn't take into account Palin's daughter, but again - I don't think it is going to be a major issue...at all.

The polls yesterday showed something like 31% of voters thought WORSE of McCain after the ticket.

[StorminNorman]

Well, the media is not exactly running wild with this thing yet.


Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

[Franklin Richards]

Lets keep these discussions an political matter not an family matter.

I used to say similar stuff.


"Let's keep these discussions an political matter not hummer in the oval office matter."


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Matt]

Lets keep these discussions an political matter not an family matter.

When someone makes family values one of their political issues, its all fair game.

[Franklin Richards]

Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

We learned from the best.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

Um, yeah... yesterday. Today's little entourage of scandals may prove that statement false tomorrow.

Again - this "scandal" is so utterly ridiculous. I hope that people care as little about Palin's daughter's fetus as they do about Obama's brother in Kenya. They are equally relevant.

[SuperT]

So McCain knew about this whole thing and he still picked her???! And the Republicans want us to believe that he has enough good judgement to be President?!?!

My lord!!

[SentinelMind]

Make no mistake about it...McCain just handed Obama the election.

I disagree with this and agree with Norm. What type of voter is going to make THIS their deciding factor on who they're going to vote for or not vote for? A 24-year old DUI from the spouse of the VP candidate and VP candidate's daughter is was pregnant before she gets married. I don't think that sort of stuff gets traction...might create excitement for a couple of days. But I don't see THAT carrying over for the next 60 -something days.

[kainedamo]

Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

Once again Norman you're not thinking of the context.

She's supposed to appeal to evangelical base. She's an anti-abortion, anti-contraception, pro-creationist fundamentalist. What's it say that her own teen daughter gets knocked up out of wed lock?

Personally, I don't give a damn.

Politically, this is as juicy as it gets.

And you're damn right if the shoe were on the other foot the R's would be tearing into the D's right now. Obama has shown a lot of class by saying family business should stay family business.

[Excel]

This is where nobo0dy knowing jack about Plain will really bite McCain in the ass. The first major story the public will learn about her as a person is that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. :dry:

Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

That isnt true at all. Teen pregnancy is ALWAYS looked down upon, its a fact. Anybody who goes through with it usually has respect lost.

The bottom line is this: She could be the VICE PRESIDENT. Her daughter got pregnant at 17. Im sorry, but thats just not right.

[SentinelMind]

So McCain knew about this whole thing and he still picked her???! And the Republicans want us to believe that he has enough good judgement to be President?!?!

My lord!!

:whatever: Yeah, oh my God, the daughter of the VP candidate became pregnant before she plans to get married, that have lots of relevance to the issues affecting the American people.

[Excel]

Again - this "scandal" is so utterly ridiculous. I hope that people care as little about Palin's daughter's fetus as they do about Obama's brother in Kenya. They are equally relevant.

Teebn pregnancy happens all the time, it is far from a "scandal" because its her daughter, not Palin herself. However, it could get a lot worse, depending on the age, occupation, ect. of the father.

[kainedamo]

Again - this "scandal" is so utterly ridiculous. I hope that people care as little about Palin's daughter's fetus as they do about Obama's brother in Kenya. They are equally relevant.

So Norman, if I went through your post history would I find you *****ing about Obama supposedly not helping out his bro in Kenya?

[StorminNorman]

The polls yesterday showed something like 31% of voters thought WORSE of McCain after the ticket.

Except the latest Rasmussen Poll, which concludes that undecideds are 31% less likely to vote for McCain following his VP pick.

Cute, neither of you obviously actually read the polling report. :lmao:

You make this too easy:

In the new survey, 35% of voters say the selection of Palin makes them more likely to vote for McCain while 33% say they are less likely to do so. Most Republicans say they are more likely to vote for Palin and most Democrats say the opposite. As for voters not affiliated with either major party, 37% are more likely to vote for McCain and 28% less likely to do so. Those numbers are a bit more positive than initial reaction to Biden.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_makes_good_first_impression_is_viewed_more_f avorably_than_biden

[Excel]

:whatever: Yeah, oh my God, the daughter of the VP candidate became pregnant before she plans to get married, that have lots of relevance to the issues affecting the American people.

Be serious bro. If you were John McCain, would you pick a women, who know you will get highly scrutinized anyways, whose 17 year old daughter is pregnant?

The universal answer is HELL NO.

[StorminNorman]

So Norman, if I went through your post history and saw you *****ing about Obama supposedly not helping out his bro in Kenya, does that make you a hypocrite?

Yes, it would make me a hypocrite.

I welcome you to do that search, as well. You won't find anything.

[SentinelMind]

Once again Norman you're not thinking of the context.

She's supposed to appeal to evangelical base. She's an anti-abortio, anti-contraception, pro-creationist fundamentalist. What's it say that her own teen daughter gets knocked up out of wed lock?

Personally, I don't give a damn.

Politically, this is as juicy as it gets.

And you're damn right if the shoe were on the other foot the R's would be tearing into the D's right now. Obama has shown a lot of class by saying family business should stay family business.

So you're arguing that only evangelicals will care about this and not independents? The fact the daughter plans on marrying the boyfriend, keep the child will get rid of any misgivings that base will have over this issue.

[kainedamo]

When someone makes family values one of their political issues, its all fair game.

Exactly, I couldn't have said it better.

[SuperT]

:whatever: Yeah, oh my God, the daughter of the VP candidate became pregnant before she plans to get married, that have lots of relevance to the issues affecting the American people.

It has a lot of relevance to the issues when Palin is a staunch supporter of abstinence as the only form of sex edcuation. WHAT? That is absolutely insane and ironic at the same time.

And now the Republicans are spinning it as a gift from god?! You bet your bottom dollar if this was one of Obama's daughters if they were the same age they'd be painting her as a disgrace and a little ****.

[SentinelMind]

Be serious bro. If you were John McCain, would you pick a women, who know you will get highly scrutinized anyways, whose 17 year old daughter is pregnant?

The universal answer is HELL NO.

Not unless you thought the positives of the candidate outweighed the negatives. What type of voter is going to make THIS...THIS the deciding factor when they get in that voting booth.

[kainedamo]

Yes, it would make me a hypocrite.

I welcome you to do that search, as well. You won't find anything.

I'll take your word for it. Just making sure you're being consistent.

[StorminNorman]

That isnt true at all. Teen pregnancy is ALWAYS looked down upon, its a fact. Anybody who goes through with it usually has respect lost.

The bottom line is this: She could be the VICE PRESIDENT. Her daughter got pregnant at 17. Im sorry, but thats just not right.

I wish I had a better smiley than this :whatever:

This is an utterly stupid and ridiculous comment.

[lazur]

Once again Norman you're not thinking of the context.

She's supposed to appeal to evangelical base. She's an anti-abortio, anti-contraception, pro-creationist fundamentalist. What's it say that her own teen daughter gets knocked up out of wed lock?

She is. There is no debate here.

As to what it says, nothing. Her teen daughter got knocked up. Is her mom supposed to keep a chastity belt on her or something? What exactly are you implying here, that Palin is a bad mom because her 17 year old daughter made a stupid decision? I didn't realize kids who are raised by good parents are immune to bad decisions...

Personally, I don't give a damn.

Obviously that's not the case, or you wouldn't be commenting, or you'd be stating that her daughter being pregnant is irrelevant. Which it is.

Politically, this is as juicy as it gets.

Not really. Why does Obama's brother still remain in poverty in Kenya? Where's the outrage of his lack of judgment on that front?

And you're damn right if the shoe were on the other foot the R's would be tearing into the D's right now. Obama has shown a lot of class by saying family business should stay family business.

Doubtful. Teen pregnancy is a fairly common thing nowadays, so I'm unsure on what GROUNDS an R would have to criticize any D over something completely trivial to the performance of that politician in office...

[Excel]

Not unless you thought the positives of the candidate outweighed the negatives. What type of voter is going to make THIS...THIS the deciding factor when they get in that voting booth.

Well for starters, it makes McCain and her look like fools to their conservative base who are strictly against such behavior. McCain because he picked her and appearently knew about it; Palin because her own daughter went totally against everythign she reportedly stood for. Granted, I am sure this girl Bristol is the family rebel, the kind who hates her mother being gov, ect. but still.

Ive always been of the opinion that undecided voters far and wide go for who they like the most, who they trust the most, who they have the most repct for, and who is the safer ticket.

And now the first major story all of America learning about Palin is her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. This story will more than likely give Obama a massive lead in every one of those categories.

[Franklin Richards]

They posted a pic of her daughter at a party with her man.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/large_2005032222302761463.jpg

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Excel]

I wish I had a better smiley than this :whatever:

This is an utterly stupid and ridiculous comment.

Sweet, but thats the way it is, and you know it. Wether you agree or not, this will be extremely damaging to the ticket if the media runs wild with it. They picked a good time to announce it with the country paying attention to the hurricane.

[StorminNorman]

Sweet, but thats the way it is, and you know it. Wether you agree or not, this will be extremely damaging to the ticket if the media runs wild with it. They picked a good time to announce it with the country paying attention to the hurricane.

No, it will not be extremely damaging to the ticket.

[danoyse]

Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

No, it's a hypocrisy of the issue that's outstanding. No one is offended by Palin's daughter being pregnant. She's got a strong supportive family, and I have no doubt she and her baby will be fine. Obama himself was the result of a teenage pregnancy.

She's the adamant pro-life candidate. She's against abortion. But this was in their statment today, that they are "proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

Which means she made a choice. If you're so pro-life, there is no "decision" of what to do, she chose it.

It's pretty difficult to see a candidate support abstainence programs when it obviously didn't even prevent her own daughter from getting pregnant at 17.

Again, I don't think it should be a big issue regardless of the candidate. We all should just acknowledge already while we should do everything we can to keep teens from getting pregnant...it's still gonna happen and no one should be standing on some moral high ground when in the end they're no better than anyone else.

[Excel]

I will also say that she needs to stay on the ticket if they wanna have any chance at all. All that will happen if she leaves after a week will be McCain being made into a joke. A fool. If he wants to have any chance, hell have to wether the storm and hope by November people are over it. He'll need to stand by his choice.

[DorkyFresh]

I wish I had a better smiley than this :whatever:

This is an utterly stupid and ridiculous comment.

it's an absurd insinuation???!!!! :woot::woot::woot:

[Cmill216]

That isnt true at all. Teen pregnancy is ALWAYS looked down upon, its a fact. Anybody who goes through with it usually has respect lost.

The bottom line is this: She could be the VICE PRESIDENT. Her daughter got pregnant at 17. Im sorry, but thats just not right.

....:confused:

What on God's green earth does Palin's daughter getting preggers have to do with Palin's ability to lead? Even if Palin is a great mother who urges her daughter to protect herself and all that jazz, kids are still going to do what they want to do.

The lack of logic in that statement is appalling, Ex. Seriously.

[Excel]

I really like Obamas answer. That is the kind of stuff that made him defeat Hillary; people wind up agreeing with him when it comes to other peoples problem and theyr respect for him grows as their respect for his opponent shrinks.

No, it will not be extremely damaging to the ticket.

Explain to me how it wont be damaging. You need to realize that many people do not look too indepthly into the issues before making their picks. How do you think Obama and McCain even got where they are? Trust and respect almost always prevail.

[kainedamo]

She is. There is no debate here.

As to what it says, nothing. Her teen daughter got knocked up. Is her mom supposed to keep a chastity belt on her or something? What exactly are you implying here, that Palin is a bad mom because her 17 year old daughter made a stupid decision? I didn't realize kids who are raised by good parents are immune to bad decisions...

I'm not saying she is a bad mom.

I am saying, that if Palin intends to push an abstinance only agenda then her failure to keep her own teen daughter abstinant will reflect badly politically.

Obviously that's not the case, or you wouldn't be commenting, or you'd be stating that her daughter being pregnant is irrelevant. Which it is.

Don't confuse my views on this. I'm as liberal as they come. Ask anybody. I don't give a rats ass personally about Sarah's daughter being pregnant. My issue is how it looks politically. Sarah is anti-abortion and anti-contraception.

Not really. Why does Obama's brother still remain in poverty in Kenya? Where's the outrage of his lack of judgment on that front?

His Grandmother lives in a hut too. No one is saying she lives in poverty. Has anyone even thought of going over there and asking his brother "so, would you say you're living in poverty?" Obama's brother doesn't live in the US. What relevance does it have? None.

Doubtful. Teen pregnancy is a fairly common thing nowadays, so I'm unsure on what GROUNDS an R would have to criticize any D over something completely trivial to the performance of that politician in office...

As a poster wisely said above, if this were one of Obama's daughters (had one been old enough) the Republicans would be all over it. And if not officially, then Fox would be all over it. I could see the disgusting comments about Obama's bad judgement now. You'd have to be naive not to think otherwise.

[lazur]

Well for starters, it makes McCain and her look like fools to their conservative base who are strictly against such behavior. McCain because he picked her and appearently knew about it; Palin because her own daughter went totally against everythign she reportedly stood for. Granted, I am sure this girl Bristol is the family rebel, the kind who hates her mother being gov, ect. but still.

If you're implying that they'd look like fools because their 'Christian values' were compromised, you need to keep something in mind: Christian's realize that mistakes happen. They aren't going to write someone off just because of an incident of teen pregnancy. If you believe that's not true, then you obviously do not understand 'faith' and 'Christian values.'

Ive always been of the opinion that undecided voters far and wide go for who they like the most, who they trust the most, who they have the most repct for, and who is the safer ticket.

I am one of those 'undecideds' and this has no bearing whatsoever on who I will choose on election day. Palin's daughter having a baby has no bearing on a) if I like her, b) if I trust her, c) if I have respect for her and d) whether she and McCain are the 'safer ticket.' (What in the hell does 'safer ticket' mean anyway? What, her kid had a baby and now she represents an unsafe ticket? What line of thinking brings you to that conclusion?)

And now the first major story all of America learning about Palin is her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. This story will more than likely give Obama a massive lead in every one of those categories.

No, the first major story was about her supposedly not having a baby, which has since been proven false. Just like that, this will die very quickly.

[StorminNorman]

No, it's a hypocrisy of the issue that's outstanding. No one is offended by Palin's daughter being pregnant. She's got a strong supportive family, and I have no doubt she and her baby will be fine. Obama himself was the result of a teenage pregnancy.

She's the adamant pro-life candidate. She's against abortion. But this was in their statment today, that they are "proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

Which means she made a choice. If you're so pro-life, there is no "decision" of what to do, she chose it.

It's pretty difficult to see a candidate support abstainence programs when it obviously didn't even prevent her own daughter from getting pregnant at 17.

Again, I don't think it should be a big issue regardless of the candidate. We all should just acknowledge already while we should do everything we can to keep teens from getting pregnant...it's still gonna happen and no one should be standing on some moral high ground when in the end they're no better than anyone else.

But I don't think Palin has ever placed herself on some moral high ground...

She believes in protecting the life of a fetus and that we shouldn't restrict the creation of life and that the proper way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is by not having sex with people you don't love and want to be with.

Since nothing indicates that the father of the child is some random guy Bristol jumped into bed with, I don't see the hypocrisy here.

[SentinelMind]

No, it's a hypocrisy of the issue that's outstanding. No one is offended by Palin's daughter being pregnant. She's got a strong supportive family, and I have no doubt she and her baby will be fine. Obama himself was the result of a teenage pregnancy.

She's the adamant pro-life candidate. She's against abortion. But this was in their statment today, that they are "proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

Which means she made a choice. If you're so pro-life, there is no "decision" of what to do, she chose it.

It's pretty difficult to see a candidate support abstainence programs when it obviously didn't even prevent her own daughter from getting pregnant at 17.

Again, I don't think it should be a big issue regardless of the candidate. We all should just acknowledge already while we should do everything we can to keep teens from getting pregnant...it's still gonna happen and no one should be standing on some moral high ground when in the end they're no better than anyone else.

Seriously, pregnant at 17, less than a year before she officially becomes an adult?
You don't understand the pro-life crowd. The daughter got pregnant. She decided to NOT to terminate the child which is consistent with her pro-life upbringing. You're brining life into the world now do what's required to make sure the baby survives and have a happy upbringing.. That's what they believe in. She's now planning to marry the boyfriend. After the marriage, most observers would view this as a non-issue. That has been common cultural practice, its called shotgun weddings. You get the woman pregnant, you marry her and raise the child. I really don't think this will be a big story for more than a week, at most. It will only be an issue among the DailyKos crowd who wanted to make Cheney's daughter being a lesbian an issue.

[Excel]

....:confused:

What on God's green earth does Palin's daughter getting preggers have to do with Palin's ability to lead? Even if Palin is a great mother who urges her daughter to protect herself and all that jazz, kids are still going to do what they want to do.

The lack of logic in that statement is appalling, Ex. Seriously.

Bro, I am not speaking for my own personal opinion on it. 17 is the age my mother was when she had me. Hell, the only reason this kind of thing is generally looked down upon is because most times, the women isnt mature enough to a mother, and cant afford it. She is the oldest of 5 kids, and comes from money. I am sure shell be fine.

I am refering to the way I see the public seeing it, which is the same way they always see things like this.

[StorminNorman]

Explain to me how it wont be damaging. You need to realize that many people do not look too indepthly into the issues before making their picks. How do you think Obama and McCain even got where they are? Trust and respect almost always prevail.

And I don't think Palin's daughter being pregnant at all impacts people's trust and respect of her.

In fact, I think it gives her the opportunity to use this to win over voters.

[Franklin Richards]

....:confused:

What on God's green earth does Palin's daughter getting preggers have to do with Palin's ability to lead? Even if Palin is a great mother who urges her daughter to protect herself and all that jazz, kids are still going to do what they want to do.

The lack of logic in that statement is appalling, Ex. Seriously.

It shows that the policies she so wholeheartedly backs are unable to be implemented even by her. This behavior brings into question her judgement.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[The Senator]

The fact that it is a Republican has nothing to do with it.

What makes this an issue is the fact that she prides herself on being a part of the moral right. She's against abortion, a strict Christian conservative deeply involved with her faith and family values. Yet, her daughter is pregnant, unwed, and she's acting as if it is fine and dandy. Out the window goes those strong family values she prides herself on. Out the window goes her strong standing with Christian conservatives who value the influence of tough, strong families. And out the window goes any claims where she can say she's been an influential mother who has been able to successfully juggle her career with her family. Because if Palin has these values, if she can juggle her career, then wouldn't she have ensured that her children don't act out of line? Wouldn't she be fiercely against teen pregnancy?

And if babygate is a real scandal (which I doubt it is considering recent photos), that totally blows her honesty out of the window too. All we really have to judge Palin on is her character and her judgment... yet these past two days, we've seen how her judgment hasn't prevailed much in her family. If she can't manage her family, how can she manage a country?

[X Knight]

I'll just say this.....if Palin and her family handle the situation with class and dignity...and if the left wing bloggers, msm, and dems overplay their handling of these issues ( whether it's the false pregnancy rumor or the daughter's real pregnancy )....it could very well backfire on the dems ( even if Obama/Biden don't actually touch the story themselves ).

[danoyse]

But I don't think Palin has ever placed herself on some moral high ground...

She believes in protecting the life of a fetus and that we shouldn't restrict the creation of life and that the proper way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is by not having sex with people you don't love and want to be with.

Since nothing indicates that the father of the child is some random guy Bristol jumped into bed with, I don't see the hypocrisy here.

And clearly that didn't work in this case, did it?

[lazur]

I'm not saying she is a bad mom.

I am saying, that if Palin intends to push an abstinance only agenda then her failure to keep her own teen daughter abstinant will reflect badly politically.

You can teach your kids abstinence. You cannot, however, lock your kids in a room and prevent it.

This occurrence has no bearing whatsoever on the spirit of the message Palin touts. Just because her own daughter decided to make a dumb decision doesn't mean that her mother's values have been compromised. It means they have a normal family with normal kids who make normal but stupid decisions...

Don't confuse my views on this. I'm as liberal as they come. Ask anybody. I don't give a rats ass personally about Sarah's daughter being pregnant. My issue is how it looks politically. Sarah is anti-abortion and anti-contraception.

So what. You're assuming that most Christian voters will 'judge' Palin by the activities and decisions of her daughter.

You're wrong.

His Grandmother lives in a hut too. No one is saying she lives in poverty. Has anyone even thought of going over there and asking his brother "so, would you say you're living in poverty?" Obama's brother doesn't live in the US. What relevance does it have? None.

Hmm, good question - why doesn't Obama go over there and ask him that question?

It's relevant because his OWN BROTHER lives on less than $1 a day and Obama hasn't commented on it at all that I've seen. If his brother has chosen to stay in Kenya, then Obama should speak up and say, "Look, I offered him a new life and he turned it down. I did all I could."

This would quell the opposition. But for some reason, he won't do it. Which makes him look heartless...

As a poster wisely said above, if this were one of Obama's daughters (had one been old enough) the Republicans would be all over it. And if not officially, then Fox would be all over it. I could see the disgusting comments about Obama's bad judgement now. You'd have to be naive not to think otherwise.

Sure, some people who are republican would make some pretty dumb comments about it, I'm sure, and they'd be wrong also.

Parents can't control every aspect of their childrens' lives. That's not republican or democrat - that's common sense.

Anyone who finds fault in Palin over this issue is LOOKING for a reason to complain. Period.

[The Senator]

I'll just say this.....if Palin and her family handle the situation with class and dignity...and if the left wing bloggers, msm, and dems overplay their handling of these issues ( whether it's the false pregnancy rumor or the daughter's real pregnancy )....it could very well backfire on the dems ( even if Obama/Biden don't actually touch the story themselves ).

The dems won't touch this story at all. The MSM might, but as long as the Dems stay out of it I don't see how it will affect them at all.

[kainedamo]

And I don't think Palin's daughter being pregnant at all impacts people's trust and respect of her.

In fact, I think it gives her the opportunity to use this to win over voters.

It depends on how its played. It could win over some independents, but it will turn off evangelicals.

[Excel]

I am one of those 'undecideds' and this has no bearing whatsoever on who I will choose on election day. Palin's daughter having a baby has no bearing on a) if I like her, b) if I trust her, c) if I have respect for her and d) whether she and McCain are the 'safer ticket.' (What in the hell does 'safer ticket' mean anyway? What, her kid had a baby and now she represents an unsafe ticket? What line of thinking brings you to that conclusion?)

Like: the more see somebody, the more theyll opinion grows in either direction-love or hate. This is one of the first real big stories about her in the national spotlight.

Trust: Will majorities trust her with all these stories from Alaska of even them being surprised by and questioning the pick?

Respect: I dunno where your from, but where I come from (which Ill admitt is a wealthy Massachusetts small town), this is always looked down upon. The peopel are treated with kindness, respect, ect. but respect is always lost. In today and age with all we know, HOW do you get pregnant by accident at that age? Just look at how people now look at Mrs. Spears after what happened to Jamie Lynn? Like or not, Sarah Palin lost a lot of peoples respect today.

Safer ticket: thats a combo of trust and respect.

No, the first major story was about her supposedly not having a baby, which has since been proven false. Just like that, this will die very quickly.

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

What is this? March? April? Have the naive Clintonites been subsituted for McCainites?

[ShadowBoxing]

You can teach your kids abstinence...
The Republicans disagree with that statement.

What you might not know is this: in July 31st Gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin filled out a questionnaire on education. Excerpt below.
3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

[The Senator]

Funny thing though... women aren't rushing to Palin and independents aren't either... so I'm not sure the Palin pick really does much to change the polls... it's possible the polls are in the same place they've always been, and that the conventions and VP picks aren't changing the game at all. It has happened in the past, if 1996 rings a bell to anyone. It wasn't until the debates when Clinton really surged ahead of Dole, so I'm under the impression we won't see any significant changes in the polling data until late September or early-mid October... assuming the polls are going to change at all...

[Excel]

I'll just say this.....if Palin and her family handle the situation with class and dignity...and if the left wing bloggers, msm, and dems overplay their handling of these issues ( whether it's the false pregnancy rumor or the daughter's real pregnancy )....it could very well backfire on the dems ( even if Obama/Biden don't actually touch the story themselves ).

Judging from Obamas answer, this wont have any real effect on the Dems. This is actually the kind of situation Obama will thrive in where he plays the bigger man. Its this kinda stuff that made him defeat Hillary. Obama calling on his own people to leave the "enemies child" alone will do wonders for him with undecided voters, just watch.

[Cmill216]

And I don't think Palin's daughter being pregnant at all impacts people's trust and respect of her.

In fact, I think it gives her the opportunity to use this to win over voters.

It shows that the policies she so wholeheartedly backs are unable to be implemented even by her. This behavior brings into question her judgement.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Norm on this one.

You can be the strongest, toughest parent the world has ever seen. But you can't possibly control every single thing your child does. I don't see how this somehow undermines her credibility.

"She can't control her own daughter, how can we expect her to run a nation?" Come on, dude.

[StorminNorman]

Bro, I am not speaking for my own personal opinion on it. 17 is the age my mother was when she had me. Hell, the only reason this kind of thing is generally looked down upon is because most times, the women isnt mature enough to a mother, and cant afford it. She is the oldest of 5 kids, and comes from money. I am sure shell be fine.

I am refering to the way I see the public seeing it, which is the same way they always see things like this.

I am going to post in nice big letters for you to grasp this:

Excel, you are NOT qualified to comment on how the public will see this. You do not have the political knowledge to make such an observation. You are one of the most biased posters in this forum and it taints your entire vantage point.

[StorminNorman]

Funny thing though... women aren't rushing to Palin and independents aren't either... so I'm not sure the Palin pick really does much to change the polls... it's possible the polls are in the same place they've always been, and that the conventions and VP picks aren't changing the game at all. It has happened in the past, if 1996 rings a bell to anyone. It wasn't until the debates when Clinton really surged ahead of Dole, so I'm under the impression we won't see any significant changes in the polling data until late September or early-mid October... assuming the polls are going to change at all...

Actually the polls say otherwise:

As for voters not affiliated with either major party, 37% are more likely to vote for McCain and 28% less likely to do so. Those numbers are a bit more positive than initial reaction to Biden.

And this is before Palin has had the chance to sell herself. The real test is how Palin performs at the RNC in Prime Time and in the debate.

[SentinelMind]

The fact that it is a Republican has nothing to do with it.

What makes this an issue is the fact that she prides herself on being a part of the moral right. She's against abortion, a strict Christian conservative deeply involved with her faith and family values.

And the daughter DIDN'T GET an abortion. If she did, then yeah, that would be an issue.



Yet, her daughter is pregnant, unwed, and she's acting as if it is fine and dandy.

False, the daughter is planning on getting married.



Out the window goes those strong family values she prides herself on. Out the window goes her strong standing with Christian conservatives who value the influence of tough, strong families.

Really, you mess up..and make an effort to fix the mistake by commiting to marry your boyfriend for the sake of the child...and it doesn't matter? We must throw out all of our family values in the drain. Once you make a mistake, getting pregnant a few months before you become a legal adult, there's no redemption? You can't move on from that and must scrap everything?

Absolutely ridiculous. That type of rhetoric has no credibility with the general public if the liberals use that line.

I'm being sincere when I say no offense to you, and I respect you and everything, but I don't think you understand those Christian conservative values that you're attacking.



And out the window goes any claims where she can say she's been an influential mother who has been able to successfully juggle her career with her family. Because if Palin has these values, if she can juggle her career, then wouldn't she have ensured that her children don't act out of line? Wouldn't she be fiercely against teen pregnancy?


She's can't be held responsible for everything her daughter does. She's helping her daughter move past the mistake and go through getting married and giving birth to the child.



And if babygate is a real scandal (which I doubt it is considering recent photos), that totally blows her honesty out of the window too. All we really have to judge Palin on is her character and her judgment... yet these past two days, we've seen how her judgment hasn't prevailed much in her family. If she can't manage her family, how can she manage a country?

Babygate had no legs, but she had to now reveal a personal family issue to neglect a rumor manufactured by the Daily Kos leftwing.

[Franklin Richards]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Norm on this one.

You can be the strongest, toughest parent the world has ever seen. But you can't possibly control every single thing your child does. I don't see how this somehow undermines her credibility.

"She can't control her own daughter, how can we expect her to run a nation?" Come on, dude.

Then maybe she should spend 99 cents on a condom. Maybe alot of people should. Put one on a banana and show her how it's done.

Her judgement is in question when she won't stand up to a failing policy even in her own home.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

It depends on how its played. It could win over some independents, but it will turn off evangelicals.

Again - I disagree. Palin's politics makes her the perfect politician for appealing to evangelicals - and I think that that will matter far more than Palin's daughter.

[DACrowe]

:lmao: :lmao:

This **** is hilarious! This is the type of day political journalists dream of. Taking down an entire campaign? Wow. I can't stop laughing.

Okay, seriously I don't think she is going to withdraw and I don't think McCain is about to drop 15 points or anything. But I do think this is going to sour the evangelical right who had a hard on for Palin when she was first announced and were like "Finally, I can support this campaign!" Now, they found out that the candidate from the state of Juneau is raising her own Juno (there is an editorial in there somewhere). Bwhahahahaha.

I actually have no problem with this and do not think it should be an issue. But I KNOW the conservative right will be unhappy with this new information, just as the moderate and liberal women McCain was also aiming for are unhappy with her policy decisions. While I don't think this is going to sink them, it will leave a sizable dent that Obama, if he plays this smart, can drive right through.

And how do you start the engine for that cruising? Simple, you play yourself above it and come off extremely annoyed that it should even be an issue and relate it to your life story. Obama is going to now have an opening as while this didn't destroy McCain's ticket, it weakened it enough for there to be a lot of holes in it. Holes the media can prod, Obama can ignore and stay on the issues and away from that will I think hurt McCain's candidacy greatly.

Who the **** vetted this family? Ted Stevens?

Wow. :lmao:

[DACrowe]

:lmao: :lmao:

This **** is hilarious! This is the type of day political journalists dream of. Taking down an entire campaign? Wow. I can't stop laughing.

Okay, seriously I don't think she is going to withdraw and I don't think McCain is about to drop 15 points or anything. But I do think this is going to sour the evangelical right who had a hard on for Palin when she was first announced and were like "Finally, I can support this campaign!" Now, they found out that the candidate from the state of Juneau is raising her own Juno (there is an editorial in there somewhere). Bwhahahahaha.

I actually have no problem with this and do not think it should be an issue. But I KNOW the conservative right will be unhappy with this new information, just as the moderate and liberal women McCain was also aiming for are unhappy with her policy decisions. While I don't think this is going to sink them, it will leave a sizable dent that Obama, if he plays this smart, can drive right through.

And how do you start the engine for that cruising? Simple, you play yourself above it and come off extremely annoyed that it should even be an issue and relate it to your life story. Obama is going to now have an opening as while this didn't destroy McCain's ticket, it weakened it enough for there to be a lot of holes in it. Holes the media can prod, Obama can ignore and stay on the issues and away from that will I think hurt McCain's candidacy greatly.

Who the **** vetted this family? Ted Stevens?

Wow. :lmao:

[danoyse]

You can teach your kids abstinence. You cannot, however, lock your kids in a room and prevent it.

This occurrence has no bearing whatsoever on the spirit of the message Palin touts. Just because her own daughter decided to make a dumb decision doesn't mean that her mother's values have been compromised. It means they have a normal family with normal kids who make normal but stupid decisions...

This is true. You can teach abstinence, but they can get pregnant anyway. Which is why teenagers should have access to birth control and options if they make that mistake. Something Palin appears to be against.

The "spirit" of the message doesn't make her different than anyone else. None of us think teenagers should be getting pregnant. But we can acknowledge that obviously they are and we should be smarter about making sure they understand the consequences and make options available to prevent it...and not just abstinence classes.

[Cmill216]

Her judgement is in question when she won't stand up to a failing policy even in her own home.

But you say this as if she hasn't preached abstinence in her home.

Again, how can you expect someone, no matter how strong they are, to control what their kids do? Especially at that age? At the end of the day, the personal responsibility of the child has to come into play. No matter what Sarah Palin tells her daughter, her daughter has her own mind and her own perceptions of the world, shaped by not just her parents, but her friends at school and the people she surrounds herself with.

That's a decision she made, likely against her mother's wishes. I, again, don't see how that undermines the credibility of Ms. Palin.

[The Senator]

1st of all, nobody in this forum is as biased for a candidate as you are. According to you, nothing an work for Obama, everything will work for McCain. If it is bad, itll hurt Obama. If it is bad, it will not hurt McCain. But I am the biased one. :whatever:

2nd, if your only comeback is that I am "not qualified" to say what the public will think, your comeback is a joke and you have no argument at all. You yourself are in no position to say what will and will not have an effect either. All I am saying is what I *think* will happen, and if you dont like it, sucks.

Egads.

Norman isn't at all extraordinarily biased, if you ask me. He has criticized McCain in the past, and didn't really support him at all from the start. The only person I would say he is biased towards is Mitt Romney, but now that Romney is out of this game entirely, I have seen a lot more objectivity from SN than many other right-leaning posters here.

Excel, Norman does have a point. You have admitted in the past that you don't know much about politics, and you really haven't been objective at all in your criticisms towards Obama. You're just... looking for an argument here, and it isn't helping you at all because we all know where you stand.

How about we cut out the personal garbage and get back to the debate on Mrs. Palin?

[kainedamo]

Sarah Palin Fails Focus Group

cnV1pS7qVD8

That is really, really damning.

Some of them were leaning towards McCain before the pick, now those same people lean towards Obama.

[Cmill216]

And enough with the giant ass bold responses, guys. Let's try to settle this down a bit.

[ShadowBoxing]

But you say this as if she hasn't preached abstinence in her home.

Again, how can you expect someone, no matter how strong they are, to control what their kids do?I don't, but when they live they're lives and political careers claiming they can do just that then it makes them look extremely foolish when they let stuff like this happen.

[Franklin Richards]

But you say this as if she hasn't preached abstinence in her home.

Again, how can you expect someone, no matter how strong they are, to control what their kids do? Especially at that age? At the end of the day, the personal responsibility of the child has to come into play. No matter what Sarah Palin tells her daughter, her daughter has her own mind and her own perceptions of the world, shaped by not just her parents, but her friends at school and the people she surrounds herself with.

That's a decision she made, likely against her mother's wishes. I, again, don't see how that undermines the credibility of Ms. Palin.

This is true. You can teach abstinence, but they can get pregnant anyway. Which is why teenagers should have access to birth control and options if they make that mistake. Something Palin appears to be against.

The "spirit" of the message doesn't make her different than anyone else. None of us think teenagers should be getting pregnant. But we can acknowledge that obviously they are and we should be smarter about making sure they understand the consequences and make options available to prevent it...and not just abstinence classes.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[DorkyFresh]

You are one of the most biased posters in this forum and it taints your entire vantage point.

i don't like to get in between personal posts, but i find this one very ironic. you should probably take a long, hard look in the mirror. we all have our biases. yours are pretty obvious as well.

[Excel]

^^ Word, thank you. Glad I aint the only who noticed.

Egads.

Norman isn't at all extraordinarily biased, if you ask me. He has criticized McCain in the past, and didn't really support him at all from the start. The only person I would say he is biased towards is Mitt Romney, but now that Romney is out of this game entirely, I have seen a lot more objectivity from SN than many other right-leaning posters here.

Excel, Norman does have a point. You have admitted in the past that you don't know much about politics, and you really haven't been objective at all in your criticisms towards Obama. You're just... looking for an argument here, and it isn't helping you at all because we all know where you stand.

I addmited those things back in January, I have learned a lot. Sorry, Norm is the most biased here. He sees EVERYTHING going in McCains favor, no matter what it is. Likewise, nothing will ever work for Obama.

And he doesnt like what i think will happen, so he calls me out personally but than I have Jman sayign I am the one starting the argument, when the reality is I said the same thing all of you have said, yet he calls me out of all people.

Gotta love it. :whatever:

[The Senator]

Actually the polls say otherwise:



And this is before Palin has had the chance to sell herself. The real test is how Palin performs at the RNC in Prime Time and in the debate.

I don't know which polls you're referring to, but a poll I read the other day which was posted somewhere in the deep, dark catacombs of this thread said almost the opposite of what FR's post says. Only 9% of women are strongly considering McCain now that he has chosen Palin, whereas something like 35% of voters are not at all affected. Only a quarter of those polled said they were more likely to vote for McCain in the end... which is hardly a huge leap in terms of political polling amongst independents...

[StorminNorman]

1st of all, nobody in this forum is as biased for a candidate as you are. According to you, nothing an work for Obama, everything will work for McCain. If it is bad, itll hurt Obama. If it is bad, it will not hurt McCain. But I am the biased one. :whatever:

Actually I have frequently attacked the McCain campaign. I have called it several times "one of the worst run political campaigns in the history of modern politics" - it is only recently where I have started to praise the way the campaign has been handling themselves, and the polls indicate that I am right.

I am not a fan of McCain, I have stated several times I have been tempted to support Obama occasionally because he has the ability to inspire that McCain can not dream of. I do now have a politician I can actively support in Palin.



2nd, if your only comeback is that I am "not qualified" to say what the public will think, your comeback is a joke and you have no argument at all. You yourself are in no position to say what will and will not have an effect either. All I am saying is what I *think* will happen, and if you dont like it, sucks.

My argument of you not being qualified to make the assessment isn't a "comeback" its a statement of fact. You have no evidence that helps your position.

I, on the other hand, DO have political experience. I have been employed as a political manager, my father was Communications Chairman for the RNC and his best friend is a well respected pollster.

If you make a claim about how the public is going to receive something, you have to back it up - if you cannot, then you make yourself look rather foolish. Like you did there.

[X Knight]

if Palin's daughter had decided to ABORT the child.....THAT would have seriously undermined her mom's credibility and standing.....since Palin is pro-life / anti-abortion ( and that makes her appealing to the right-wing, pro-life crowd ).

Instead, the daughter has decided to have the child, marry the father, start a family, and raise the child with the father. IOW.....yes the daughter did get herself in a "less-than-desirable" situation....but she is handling it RESPONSIBLY!! It demonstrates how the family handles a "family crisis" of their own.

That should, imo, be acceptable to MOST reasonable-minded folks in the country......:whatever:

Ironically, Obama had the decency and sense to tell his supporters to back off the matter and respect the family's privacy. It seems, though, that piece of wisdom is lost on many posters here........:whatever:

[The Senator]

I addmited those things back in January, I have learned a lot. Sorry, Norm is the most biased here. He sees EVERYTHING going in McCains favor, no matter what it is. Likewise, nothing will ever work for Obama.

And he doesnt like what i think will happen, so he calls me out personally but than I have Jman sayign I am the one starting the argument, when the reality is I said the same thing all of you have said, yet he calls me out of all people.

Gotta love it. :whatever:

Well why don't we cut the BS altogether and just get back to the topic?

[StorminNorman]

I don't know which polls you're referring to, but a poll I read the other day which was posted somewhere in the deep, dark catacombs of this thread said almost the opposite of what FR's post says. Only 9% of women are strongly considering McCain now that he has chosen Palin, whereas something like 35% of voters are not at all affected. Only a quarter of those polled said they were more likely to vote for McCain in the end... which is hardly a huge leap in terms of political polling amongst independents...

My poll is a Rasmussen Report, but again - I wouldn't expect Palin to instantly attract women. I don't think women are going to support a politician simply because they have ovaries - the key, as I have said over and over again, is how Palin is sold. Her speech at the RNC is arguably the most important speech in the campaign so far.

[Mikelus]

Palin is a bad candidate, Condy Rice was a better option for McCain, at least she's qualified and well-respected, Palin is already considered by many as one of the worsts VP candidates ever.

Interesting analysis:

Ms. Palin's experience in government makes Barack Obama look like George C. Marshall. She served two terms on the city council of Wasilla, Alaska, population 9,000. She served two terms as mayor. In November, 2006, she was elected governor of the state, a job she has held for a little more than 18 months. She has zero foreign policy experience, and no record on national security issues.

All this would matter less, but for this fact: The day that John McCain announced his selection of Sarah Palin was his birthday. His 72nd birthday. Seventy-two is not as old as it used to be, but Mr. McCain had a bout with melanoma seven years ago, and his experience in prison camp has uncertain implications for his future health.

If anything were to happen to a President McCain, the destiny of the free world would be placed in the hands of a woman who until the day before Friday was a small-town mayor.

Mr. McCain's supporters argue that he is more serious about national security than Barack Obama. But the selection of Sarah Palin invites the question: How serious can he be if he would place such a neophyte second in line to the presidency? Barack Obama at least balanced his inexperience with Mr. Biden's experience. What is Mr. McCain doing?

Vice-presidents have historically made surprisingly little difference to the outcome of presidential elections. The elder Bush picked Dan Quayle in 1988 in hopes of wooing younger voters, much as Walter Mondale had chosen Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, in an effort to mobilize women, and George McGovern had hoped that Sargent Shriver would stanch his losses among Catholics in 1972.

None of these gambits worked. Ms. Ferraro did not deliver women, Mr. Quayle did not deliver youth, and Catholics defected to Nixon in 1972.

Where vice-presidents - and especially Republican vice-presidents - make an enormous difference is after the election.

Since the Second World War, 10 men have received the Republican nomination for vice-president. Three of those men - Richard Nixon, Bob Dole and George H.W. Bush - continued on to win the presidential nomination for themselves, and two actually became president. (A fourth nominee, Thomas Dewey's 1948 running mate, Earl Warren, rose to arguably even greater power as chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. And you could add a fifth case: Gerald Ford went on to the presidency after being appointed vice-president in 1973.)

Should John McCain lose in November, Sarah Palin has just pole-vaulted into front-runner status for 2012. Should Mr. McCain win, her grip on the next Republican nomination will become a lock.

So this is the future of the Republican party you are looking at: a future in which national security has bumped down the list of priorities behind abortion politics, gender politics, and energy politics. Ms. Palin is a bold pick, and probably a shrewd one. It's not nearly so clear that she is a responsible pick, or a wise one.

National Post

http://www.nationalpost.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=756704

[StorminNorman]

if Palin's daughter had decided to ABORT the child.....THAT would have seriously undermined her mom's credibility and standing.....since Palin is pro-life / anti-abortion ( and that makes her appealing to the right-wing, pro-life crowd ).

Instead, the daughter has decided to have the child, marry the father, start a family, and raise the child with the father. IOW.....yes the daughter did get herself in a "less-than-desirable" situation....but she is handling it RESPONSIBLY!! It demonstrates how the family handles a "family crisis" of their own.

That should, imo, be acceptable to MOST reasonable-minded folks in the country......:whatever:

Ironically, Obama had the decency and sense to tell his supporters to back off the matter and respect the family's privacy. It seems, though, that piece of wisdom is lost on many posters here........:whatever:

:up:

:up:

:up:

[kainedamo]

Sarah Palin Fails Focus Group

cnV1pS7qVD8

That is really, really damning.

Some of them were leaning towards McCain before the pick, now those same people lean towards Obama.

Hey guys!! Watch that vid!! Watch it!!!

[Cmill216]

if Palin's daughter had decided to ABORT the child.....THAT would have seriously undermined her mom's credibility and standing.....since Palin is pro-life / anti-abortion ( and that makes her appealing to the right-wing, pro-life crowd ).

Instead, the daughter has decided to have the child, marry the father, start a family, and raise the child with the father. IOW.....yes the daughter did get herself in a "less-than-desirable" situation....but she is handling it RESPONSIBLY!! It demonstrates how the family handles a "family crisis" of their own.

That should, imo, be acceptable to MOST reasonable-minded folks in the country......

^ I completely agree.

[Excel]

DaCrowe made the best point here. All Obama ahs to do to work this in his favor is stick up for her, and he is.

if Palin's daughter had decided to ABORT the child.....THAT would have seriously undermined her mom's credibility and standing.....since Palin is pro-life / anti-abortion ( and that makes her appealing to the right-wing, pro-life crowd ).

Instead, the daughter has decided to have the child, marry the father, start a family, and raise the child with the father. IOW.....yes the daughter did get herself in a "less-than-desirable" situation....but she is handling it RESPONSIBLY!! It demonstrates how the family handles a "family crisis" of their own.

That should, imo, be acceptable to MOST reasonable-minded folks in the country......:whatever:

Ironically, Obama had the decency and sense to tell his supporters to back off the matter and respect the family's privacy. It seems, though, that piece of wisdom is lost on many posters here........:whatever:

I got respect for her for keeping the baby, but I cant help but think of as dumb. How does she not on the pill, or did he not wear a condom, or any of that stuff? If she was stupid enough to let him use the pull out when your daughter of a governor, than what else am I supposed to think of her? For real. That kind of stuff always starts with somebodys parent; if Obamas daughter get knocked up when shes 17, Ill look down on him too.

[Franklin Richards]

[/B][/SIZE]Actually I have frequently attacked the McCain campaign. I have called it several times "one of the worst run political campaigns in the history of modern politics" - it is only recently where I have started to praise the way the campaign has been handling themselves, and the polls indicate that I am right.

I am not a fan of McCain, I have stated several times I have been tempted to support Obama occasionally because he has the ability to inspire that McCain can not dream of. I do now have a politician I can actively support in Palin.



My argument of you not being qualified to make the assessment isn't a "comeback" its a statement of fact. You have no evidence that helps your position.

I, on the other hand, DO have political experience. I have been employed as a political manager, my father was Communications Chairman for the RNC and his best friend is a well respected pollster.

If you make a claim about how the public is going to receive something, you have to back it up - if you cannot, then you make yourself look rather foolish. Like you did there.

You see, Excel, in the Republican Party subjects like politics are only for... well the intelligent, quite frankly. Only the elite like Normin' can have a say in what direction our lives will take. You are but a second class citizen and have no say in such lofty topics like : hypocrisy.

:D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[danoyse]

Again - I disagree. Palin's politics makes her the perfect politician for appealing to evangelicals - and I think that that will matter far more than Palin's daughter.

I don't think they evangelicals are going to go running for the hills either. This isn't Larry Craig in an airport bathroom. They'll make a big event of her having this baby and celebrate her decision to have the baby, etc...

But I think if McCain's people had to make this decision over again, they wouldn't have picked her. If they really knew about her pregnant daughter, why not say something sooner? Nothing is private when you're in the political spectrum...and wouldn't it be wise to be upfront about your candidate's unwed pregnant teenage daughter instead of using to it diffuse an even worse rumor that broke over the weekend?

From a media standpoint, it's a mess.

[X Knight]

Palin has the RNC speech, the debate with Biden ( which should be.....interesting...to say the least )......plus whatever she does on the campaign trail in between now and the election.

IOW....let's give the woman a CHANCE before we start writing her off as a lame, ineffective pick for VP....y'know....like how how we are all suppose to give Obama a chance to prove himself......

[Franklin Richards]

if Palin's daughter had decided to ABORT the child.....THAT would have seriously undermined her mom's credibility and standing.....since Palin is pro-life / anti-abortion ( and that makes her appealing to the right-wing, pro-life crowd ).

Instead, the daughter has decided to have the child, marry the father, start a family, and raise the child with the father. IOW.....yes the daughter did get herself in a "less-than-desirable" situation....but she is handling it RESPONSIBLY!! It demonstrates how the family handles a "family crisis" of their own.

That should, imo, be acceptable to MOST reasonable-minded folks in the country......:whatever:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/swaggart_621.jpg


I have sinned!


That makes it ok doesn't it.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Excel]

[/b][/size]Actually I have frequently attacked the McCain campaign. I have called it several times "one of the worst run political campaigns in the history of modern politics" - it is only recently where I have started to praise the way the campaign has been handling themselves, and the polls indicate that I am right.

I am not a fan of McCain, I have stated several times I have been tempted to support Obama occasionally because he has the ability to inspire that McCain can not dream of. I do now have a politician I can actively support in Palin.



My argument of you not being qualified to make the assessment isn't a "comeback" its a statement of fact. You have no evidence that helps your position.

I, on the other hand, DO have political experience. I have been employed as a political manager, my father was Communications Chairman for the RNC and his best friend is a well respected pollster.

If you make a claim about how the public is going to receive something, you have to back it up - if you cannot, then you make yourself look rather foolish. Like you did there.

I dont care if your a psychic who can see into the future, your biasness is well known by everybody here and we all coulda accurately guessed your reaction to this story because of it. Not sayign I am any different, but I am not walking around calling out other individual posters or trying to say I know more about it than they do.

Enough, I dont really care anyway.

[StorminNorman]

And again - reality indicates that Palin has energized the GOP (she has helped in fundraising all ready), and does appeal to independents. She hasn't hurt the ticket at all - so she isn't a bad pick.

If Palin does nothing but locks McCain with conservatives - she has been a good pick.

[kainedamo]

Palin is a bad candidate, Condy Rice was a better option for McCain, at least she's qualified and well-respected, Palin is already considered by many as one of the worsts VP candidates ever.

Interesting analysis:

Ms. Palin's experience in government makes Barack Obama look like George C. Marshall. She served two terms on the city council of Wasilla, Alaska, population 9,000. She served two terms as mayor. In November, 2006, she was elected governor of the state, a job she has held for a little more than 18 months. She has zero foreign policy experience, and no record on national security issues.

All this would matter less, but for this fact: The day that John McCain announced his selection of Sarah Palin was his birthday. His 72nd birthday. Seventy-two is not as old as it used to be, but Mr. McCain had a bout with melanoma seven years ago, and his experience in prison camp has uncertain implications for his future health.

If anything were to happen to a President McCain, the destiny of the free world would be placed in the hands of a woman who until the day before Friday was a small-town mayor.

Mr. McCain's supporters argue that he is more serious about national security than Barack Obama. But the selection of Sarah Palin invites the question: How serious can he be if he would place such a neophyte second in line to the presidency? Barack Obama at least balanced his inexperience with Mr. Biden's experience. What is Mr. McCain doing?

Vice-presidents have historically made surprisingly little difference to the outcome of presidential elections. The elder Bush picked Dan Quayle in 1988 in hopes of wooing younger voters, much as Walter Mondale had chosen Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, in an effort to mobilize women, and George McGovern had hoped that Sargent Shriver would stanch his losses among Catholics in 1972.

None of these gambits worked. Ms. Ferraro did not deliver women, Mr. Quayle did not deliver youth, and Catholics defected to Nixon in 1972.

Where vice-presidents - and especially Republican vice-presidents - make an enormous difference is after the election.

Since the Second World War, 10 men have received the Republican nomination for vice-president. Three of those men - Richard Nixon, Bob Dole and George H.W. Bush - continued on to win the presidential nomination for themselves, and two actually became president. (A fourth nominee, Thomas Dewey's 1948 running mate, Earl Warren, rose to arguably even greater power as chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. And you could add a fifth case: Gerald Ford went on to the presidency after being appointed vice-president in 1973.)

Should John McCain lose in November, Sarah Palin has just pole-vaulted into front-runner status for 2012. Should Mr. McCain win, her grip on the next Republican nomination will become a lock.

So this is the future of the Republican party you are looking at: a future in which national security has bumped down the list of priorities behind abortion politics, gender politics, and energy politics. Ms. Palin is a bold pick, and probably a shrewd one. It's not nearly so clear that she is a responsible pick, or a wise one.

National Post

http://www.nationalpost.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=756704

That's a great article and it makes an excellent point, which I put in bold.

If McCain becomes President and doesn't die then it will become very likely that Palin herself will at some point run for the job. And her views are incredibly, incredibly right wing.

[Matt]

I dont care if your a psychic who can see into the future, your biasness is well known by everybody here and we all coulda accurately guessed your reaction to this story because of it. Not sayign I am any different, but I am not walking around calling out other individual posters or trying to say I know more about it than they do.

Enough, I dont really care anyway.


Cmill said to stop, now stop. This isn't a pissing contest.

[X Knight]

as much as I would have liked McCain to pick Rice for VP ( in fact I wanted HER to run for President!! ).......if McCain had picked her....that would immediately lend more credence to the dems attack of McCain = Bush 3rd.

Since Rice has been an integral part of the Bush foreign policy affairs, which has been a "disaster" to many, she would have further served as reminder of that if she was the VP pick. Hence, I don't think McCain would have wanted to choose her.....

[kainedamo]

And again - reality indicates that Palin has energized the GOP (she has helped in fundraising all ready), and does appeal to independents. She hasn't hurt the ticket at all - so she isn't a bad pick.

If Palin does nothing but locks McCain with conservatives - she has been a good pick.

Well she's not doing too much for the polls.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx

Gallup Daily: Obama Maintains 6-Point Lead, 49% to 43% NEW

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote while John McCain earns 44%.

[StorminNorman]

Well she's not doing too much for the polls.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx

Gallup Daily: Obama Maintains 6-Point Lead, 49% to 43% NEW

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote while John McCain earns 44%.

Thats one poll.

Zogby has McCain up by 2 and CNN had Obama up by 1.

Again, though, Palin needs to have her primetime moment at the RNC.

[danoyse]

This will come back to haunt them:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palin-backed-abstinence-education/

Palin backed abstinence education
Posted: 02:00 PM ET

(CNN) – Sarah Palin, who announced on Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, indicated during her run for Alaska governor that she was a firm supporter of abstinence-only education in schools.

In a 2006 Eagle Forum questionnaire, Palin indicated that she supported funding abstinence-until-marriage education programs instead of teaching sex-education programs.

"Explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," Palin wrote in the conservative group’s questionnaire.

[DorkyFresh]

Cmill said to stop, now stop. This isn't a pissing contest.
Stormin can attack Excel after Cmill told them BOTH to chill, but Excel can't defend himself? i see that bias doesn't just apply to the posters, but to the mods as well.

[kainedamo]

Thats one poll.

Zogby has McCain up by 2 and CNN had Obama up by 1.

Again, though, Palin needs to have her primetime moment at the RNC.

I posted two polls.

[Matt]

Stormin can attack Excel after Cmill told them BOTH to chill, but Excel can't defend himself? i see that bias doesn't just apply to the posters, but to the mods as well.

I quoted Excel because he got the last word in. If Norman had the last word I would've quoted him. I figured both would know it applied to them.

[kainedamo]

There is also this negative response to Palin from a focus group.

cnV1pS7qVD8

[Excel]

Just saw this on CNN and on FOX. Fox doesnt think itll matter, CNN said they dunno yet.

Stormin can attack Excel after Cmill told them BOTH to chill, but Excel can't defend himself? i see that bias doesn't just apply to the posters, but to the mods as well.

Word, thank you :up:

And btw Matt, his point was that Norm kept it going AFTER Cmill as well, yet you only mentioned my name. I guess I see how it is.


:p

[Matt]

I won't edit it Excel, I'd like your immaturity to speak for itself as it sort of proves Norm's point. :oldrazz: :cwink:

[DorkyFresh]

I quoted Excel because he got the last word in. If Norman had the last word I would've quoted him. I figured both would know it applied to them.
if that was your intention, then cool....but it looks biased when you only quote one of them, especially considering your stance on most of these issues seem to contrast Excel's and compliment Norman's.

[Excel]

I won't edit it Excel, I'd like your immaturity to speak for itself as it sort of proves Norm's point. :oldrazz: :cwink:

What are you talking about???? ;)

[Cmill216]

Hey, hey, hey, hey! The last thing we need is to turn a thread about an impressively attractive political candidate into an Excel hate fest.

Moving on! :cmad:

[Matt]

Cmill is right.

So...are we agreed then? Bristol Palin is not the mother of Sarah Palin's latest child...nor is she the mother of the one she claims to be pregnant with, the 14 year old is?

[jaguarr]

I won't edit it Excel, I'd like your immaturity to speak for itself as it sort of proves Norm's point. :oldrazz: :cwink:

And only scolding one of the people in the pissing match directly and then taking a personal shot at them while you're at it rather than trying to just stay neutral kind of speaks to your maturity on the issue, Matt. Sorry.

jag

[Matt]

Oh for Christ's sake Jag, it was a joke. If Excel can get it, surely you can.

[Franklin Richards]

Cmill is right.

So...are we agreed then? Bristol Palin is not the mother of Sarah Palin's latest child...nor is she the mother of the one she claims to be pregnant with, the 14 year old is?

Where does Michael Palin fit into all of this?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[X Knight]

Cmill is right.

So...are we agreed then? Bristol Palin is not the mother of Sarah Palin's latest child...nor is she the mother of the one she claims to be pregnant with, the 14 year old is?


do I detect sarcasm there Matt......;)

[jaguarr]

Cmill is right.

So...are we agreed then? Bristol Palin is not the mother of Sarah Palin's latest child...nor is she the mother of the one she claims to be pregnant with, the 14 year old is?

I'll wait until all of the facts come out from the intense investigation that I'm sure is going on in this matter from countless journalists before I make up my mind about that one. I'm still stunned that any woman would undertake the 12 hour total trip to have a baby from Texas to Alaska AFTER her water broke. Just horrible judgment. Horrible.

jag

[lazur]

Funny thing though... women aren't rushing to Palin and independents aren't either... so I'm not sure the Palin pick really does much to change the polls... it's possible the polls are in the same place they've always been, and that the conventions and VP picks aren't changing the game at all. It has happened in the past, if 1996 rings a bell to anyone. It wasn't until the debates when Clinton really surged ahead of Dole, so I'm under the impression we won't see any significant changes in the polling data until late September or early-mid October... assuming the polls are going to change at all...

I tend to agree that the polling right now is insignificant. I also tend to agree that women aren't rushing to Palin. However, Palin just *now* came into the picture, so to assume that she couldn't shape the polling further, positive or negative, is a bit premature.

Give her some time to either a) cut her own throat (which seems the more likely), and ultimately harm McCain's chances of being elected, or b) provide an image to the American people that is favorable to conservative and independent women, and therefore enhance McCain's chances.

Too early to tell...

[jaguarr]

Oh for Christ's sake Jag, it was a joke. If Excel can get it, surely you can.

Can we have your username changed to "Fox", if you're going to be "fair and balanced" like that? :oldrazz:

jag

[Excel]

Ouch.

:p

[jaguarr]

I tend to agree that the polling right now is insignificant. I also tend to agree that women aren't rushing to Palin. However, Palin just *now* came into the picture, so to assume that she couldn't shape the polling further, positive or negative, is a bit premature.

Give her some time to either a) cut her own throat (which seems the more likely), and ultimately harm McCain's chances of being elected, or b) provide an image to the American people that is favorable to conservative and independent women, and therefore enhance McCain's chances.

Too early to tell...

Yeah, I'm kind of with lazur on this. Way too early to tell how the choice of Palin will influence the polls if at all, to be honest.

jag

[hippie_hunter]

I tend to agree that the polling right now is insignificant. I also tend to agree that women aren't rushing to Palin. However, Palin just *now* came into the picture, so to assume that she couldn't shape the polling further, positive or negative, is a bit premature.

Give her some time to either a) cut her own throat (which seems the more likely), and ultimately harm McCain's chances of being elected, or b) provide an image to the American people that is favorable to conservative and independent women, and therefore enhance McCain's chances.

Too early to tell...
I completely agree with this lazur.

[hippie_hunter]

I'll wait until all of the facts come out from the intense investigation that I'm sure is going on in this matter from countless journalists before I make up my mind about that one. I'm still stunned that any woman would undertake the 12 hour total trip to have a baby from Texas to Alaska AFTER her water broke. Just horrible judgment. Horrible.

jag

Hey to each their own.

We're not Palin so we really can't say what was in her mind when her water broke. Maybe she really wanted to have the child at her home. Maybe something like that was important to her.

I mean to me, something like having a child at my home isn't that big of a deal. But maybe it is to her though. Besides, it's not like there was really any damage done either.

[DorkyFresh]

Sarah Palin Fails Focus Group

cnV1pS7qVD8

That is really, really damning.

Some of them were leaning towards McCain before the pick, now those same people lean towards Obama.

don't worry, kaine.....i definitely saw this. i'll keep this in mind, but i'll also keep in mind that this was a FOCUS group and that it probably doesn't reflect what the rest of America thinks.

[X Knight]

plus she had 4 prior pregnancies. So, maybe, just maybe, the woman is a better judge of her own body than "we posters who don't know her" are. Imagine that!

[Excel]

Back on topic, nobody ever answered my question.

Shes a governors daughter. Shes 17 only years old. She can use condoms, take the pill, all that jazz. We live in an age where everybody knows that. And yet, she got pregnant. She either let him cum in her, attempt to do the pull out, or forgot to take the pill.

I am sorry, but what else am I supposed to think of her other than that she is just stupid? There are so many ways to avoid this, and given her circumstances, theres no way she planned onit or wanted to get pregnant.

[X Knight]

ppl ( especially teens ) do dumb things sometimes.....novel idea, I know.....

or, to put it succinctly.....s**t happens.....deal with it responsibly....and move on!

[lazur]

I'll wait until all of the facts come out from the intense investigation that I'm sure is going on in this matter from countless journalists before I make up my mind about that one. I'm still stunned that any woman would undertake the 12 hour total trip to have a baby from Texas to Alaska AFTER her water broke. Just horrible judgment. Horrible.

jag

I agree that it's shocking. It's further highlighted by the fact that the child was also diagnosed as mentally handicapped. I would think that any mother would want to minimize the amount of damage already present in this child by not doing something as asinine as prolonging birth by 12 plus hours for the convenience of birthing at a location of her choosing.

Definite (though unfortunate) example of a complete lack of judgment...

[hippie_hunter]

Back on topic, nobody ever answered my question.

Shes a governors daughter. Shes 17 only years old. She can use condoms, take the pill, all that jazz. We live in an age where everybody knows that. And yet, she got pregnant. She either let him cum in her, attempt to do the pull out, or forgot to take the pill.

I am sorry, but what else am I supposed to think of her other than that she is just stupid? There are so many ways to avoid this.

Excel, just drop it. This thread is meant to be about Sarah Palin as John McCain's VP candidate, not about the questionable judgment of her daughter in a completely inappropriate manner.

[Excel]

ppl ( especially teens ) do dumb things sometimes.....novel idea, I know.....

This one is beyond dumb; this is exceptionally moronic. Shes not your standard 17 year old, and this isnt the 1960's.

[Matt]

A teenager does something stupid. Its hardly grounds to say her mother isn't fit to be VP (yet in our society, it will be enough, in my opinion)

[Excel]

Excel, just drop it. This thread is meant to be about Sarah Palin as John McCain's VP candidate, not about the questionable judgment of her daughter in a completely inappropriate manner.

And this discussion is all about Sarah Palin, and her familys baggage may effect the election. :huh:

[Excel]

A teenager does something stupid. Its hardly grounds to say her mother isn't fit to be VP (yet in our society, it will be enough, in my opinion)

Agreed.

[danoyse]

Yeah, I'm kind of with lazur on this. Way too early to tell how the choice of Palin will influence the polls if at all, to be honest.

jag

Especially now with this story about her daughter. I just read a comment on another forum saying that they should just turn the Straight Talk Express into a clown car.

I was just watching the local NY news, and they kept hammering on the "teenage, unwed" part of the description. Their political commentator seemed to think by announcing it during Gustav they hoped it would be buried under more important news, but since so little is known about Palin this isn't an issue that's going to go away as easy as they hope it will.

[Franklin Richards]

Excel, just drop it. This thread is meant to be about Sarah Palin as John McCain's VP candidate, not about the questionable judgment of her daughter in a completely inappropriate manner.

I think it shows that Palin has bad judgement when it comes to backing systemically failing policies.

I think it also brings up McCain's lack of judgment in picking her without fully "vetting" her.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[comicgirl]

You're right Bats. If she were male, she wouldn't have even been considered for VP.:up::up::rolleyes::up:........let's take a moment to consider if....oh, Obama or ANY anyone thisclose to the Oval Office had a news bombshell drop like.......
Teenage daughter knocked up...........but it's ok, 'cause she's marryin' the baby daddy and ....what?

Wha-wha-wha!!!!!!!!! Is the VP going to support daughter and son-in-law??!....Ugh....must stop speaking now.

[Matt]

Agreed.

Yet you already claimed as much...

[souvlaki]

Should they?

Again - the hypocrasy on this board is outstanding. If this was a Democrat politician with a daughter that was preggers, anyone making a big deal about this would be bashed. Since she happens to have an R next to her name, its open season!

Haven't read the rest of the thread, but in case noone has pointing out the obvious, Democrats don't typically run on a platform of extreme family values, and abstinence as the only option when it comes to sex before marriage. Palin, on the other hand, did.

[X Knight]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her judgment and "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???

[souvlaki]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???

See above.

[Franklin Richards]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???


And my question to you is, "If my grandmother had wheels, would she be a racecar?"

huh?? would she???


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Excel]

Yet you already claimed as much...

I said when news broke I peronsally dont give a damn, again, my own mother had me when she was 18. Shes a great woman. I have been referencing how this will play amongst the people of this country. Which, I believe, is what youve been doing.

[X Knight]

And my question to you is, "If my grandmother had wheels, would she be a racecar?"

huh?? would she???


:thing: :doom: :thing:

:huh::huh::huh:

[danoyse]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her judgment and "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???

They would be if Obama or Biden had been adamant supporters of abstinence programs instead of sex education in schools.

[The Senator]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her judgment and "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???

Well considering neither candidate is able to be in that situation, I'm not sure I can answer that efficiently, for everyone.

But, if it did happen, I would only question their judgment if they prided themselves on having "mother of the year" credentials.

[comicgirl]

Well considering neither candidate is able to be in that situation, I'm not sure I can answer that efficiently, for everyone.

But, if it did happen, I would only question their judgment if they prided themselves on having "mother of the year" credentials.http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/McCainPalin/images/zyglis.gif

[comicgirl]

my question is......if Obama or Biden had a 17 year old daughter who was in a similar situation......would all of the posters who are attacking Palin and questioning her judgment and "fitness" to be VP do the same to Obama or Biden?? huh?? would they???

Dare I repeat...............Let the HYPE say...."AMEN"!!!!!

[DACrowe]

I don't think it is just because she did something stupid. It is because one of her biggest "appeals" is family values and with abortion and abstinence Rep. generally have this "holier-than-thou" tone.

This goes to show an abstinence only policy is asinine and it is just someone with the moral high ground being taken down a peg. It is also hard to believe the vetters missed this and if they didn't why would McCain choose someone who defies conservative values?

I do not think family personal issues matter, nor do I really hold this against Palin. But I know Republicans do, just ask their attacks on politicians' family history (in "Obama Nation" they're holding Obama's father's sins as a "polygamist" against Obama).

It just is a gaping hole that will disenfranchise the hardcore right that was excited about her. It is just the drama of it that makes them look hypocritical, like when McCain for months touts Obama is too inexperienced to be president and then picks someone arguably less experienced than he is.

As I said,

The candidate from the state of Juneau has her own little Juno.

And given her policy stances, it is very amusing and if says anything proves the idiocy of the abstinence-only ideology.

[The Senator]

A teenager does something stupid. Its hardly grounds to say her mother isn't fit to be VP (yet in our society, it will be enough, in my opinion)

That's exactly it.

See, I could care less if her daughter is pregnant or not. But in this society of the superficial, I can only imagine that Palin's daughter would help derail her candidacy. I'm speaking from a political standpoint, as someone who has watched as scandals (petty or large) have derailed candidacies in the past. And this is grounds for harm, right here, only because Bristol's actions go against what Palin claims she stands for. Voters do not like hypocrites, even if the act itself doesn't look "hypocritical" to the average person. Many voters, especially on the right or right-of-center, will look at this and shake their heads.

[souvlaki]

I said when news broke I peronsally dont give a damn, again, my own mother had me when she was 18. Shes a great woman. I have been referencing how this will play amongst the people of this country. Which, I believe, is what youve been doing.

Well, that's the thing. Like I said, I don't think it has anything to do with any of us in particular having a problem with it. It just shows the problem with the religious right forcing their beliefs about sex before marriage, abstinence as the only contraceptive, and extreme family values when the truth is they are no better or worse than the rest of the American public when it comes to this. I just personally don't like people shoving their personal beliefs down the public's throat about sex before marriage when they apparently can't even teach their own children to do the same.

[X Knight]

They would be if Obama or Biden had been adamant supporters of abstinence programs instead of sex education in schools.

well then.....isn't Obama against lobbyists, and isn't that a major part of his campaign??

if that's the case, there are "stories" going around highlighting Biden's sons and their connections to lobbyists.

are ppl jumping all over Obama for that?

if those stories turn out to be true, are you all going to call Obama a complete hypocrite who lacks judgment and is unfit to be President....because he chose a running mate who's sons are connected to lobbyists.....

after all, Obama is running on an anti-lobbyist platform......

[DACrowe]

Well considering neither candidate is able to be in that situation, I'm not sure I can answer that efficiently, for everyone.

But, if it did happen, I would only question their judgment if they prided themselves on having "mother of the year" credentials.

You can bet conservatives and Republicans would rip either one a new one for being a "bad parent" and not having family values. I'm surprised and thankful no one has really gone after Obama being raised by a mostly-single parent who had him when 18-years-old. Well the fringe right do go after that (read excerpts from "Obama Nation"), but they are just wacko.

Again it doesn't bug me, I just love the hypocrisy of it and do predict that it WILL be a problem for some other people, though.

[Excel]

Bristol, sister of Trig, Pipier, and Willow, will marry Levi.

Does everyone in Alaska have such odd names? The only person from Aslaska I know is named Dinesh.

[Tron5000]

You can bet conservatives and Republicans would rip either one a new one for being a "bad parent" and not having family values. I'm surprised and thankful no one has really gone after Obama being raised by a mostly-single parent who had him when 18-years-old. Well the fringe right do go after that (read excerpts from "Obama Nation"), but they are just wacko.

Again it doesn't bug me, I just love the hypocrisy of it and do predict that it WILL be a problem for some other people, though.

No, Republicans generally see all life as precious and a gift from God. I doubt anyone would come down on Obama or Biden if their children became pregnant out of wedlock.

However, Conservatives did have a big problem when Obama said he wouldn't want his daughter "punished" with having to bear a child if she became pregnant. See, once again, they see all life as precious, and if someone becomes pregnant because of decisions they made, Conservatives believe these people should give birth to their children.

[The Senator]

Bristol, sister of Trig, Pipier, and Willow, will marry Levi.

Does everyone in Alaska have such odd names? The only person from Aslaska I know is named Dinesh.

The only person I know from Alaska is named Kate, so I don't think so. Not to mention their top three politicians (besides Palin) are named Ted, Don, and Lisa...

[souvlaki]

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) — A senior adviser to the McCain campaign confirmed Monday that Todd Palin, husband to Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, was arrested for driving while intoxicated in 1984.

"Yes, 24 years ago he had a DWI," senior McCain adviser Steve Schmidt told reporters in St. Paul.

Schmidt was asked if he was worried about the news, and replied, “I was not.”

The story was first reported by David Brody, a CNN contributor and Christian Broadcasting Network News Senior National Correspondent.

Jesus...

[comicgirl]

In the hours since McCain announced that Governor Sarah Palin was his choice, we’ve gone around the net looking for some precise reasons why she sucks.
Here are 16 reasons:

http://www.who-sucks.com/people/13-reasons-why-sarah-palin-sucks


A poor record: Her only political experience has been a few years as mayor of a small town in Alaska and less than two years as governor of that state. Her record wasn’t so great: the small town she left behind is now in financial ruin.
She has no experience with national level politics. At the time of this posting, many of her views on national policy issues were unknown simply because she is so inexperienced that she hasn’t even made public statements about them. Presidential history scholars believe she may be “the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history
.”

She has no foreign policy experience. None.
Iraq War? Our country is in the midst of a war, and Palin’s son is going to fight in that war. However, Salon.com reports that she hasn’t even given much thought to the Iraq War, and has no clear opinions about it. Great.
She is a creationist, and she wants “creation science” to be taught in public schools.
She doesn’t believe in man-made global warming. Maybe that’s why she supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge?
Not only does she think the government should be telling people who they can and cannot marry, she also thinks that same sex couples should be denied benefits given to straight couples.
Palin has been accused of abusing her power as Alaska governor to try to get her ex-brother-in-law fired as a state trooper. An investigation is underway.
She has messed up views on wildlife protection. Enivornmentalists are appalled by her support of a $150-per-wolf bounty program. She’s also supported the use of government money to educate people about how great it is to shoot bears and wolves, and she doesn’t want the polar bear to make it onto the endangered species list.
One nation, under stupidity: When defending the phrase “one nation under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance, Palin said, “If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.” Reality check: The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892, long after the founding fathers died. The phrase “one nation under God” was added in 1954….
Anti-birth control nutcase- Not only does Palin oppose abortion in all cases, she also opposes the use of birth control in all cases. That includes married couples that want to use condoms or the pill!
Politicizing non-political jobs: When she was mayor of small town in Alaska, Palin abused her authority by firing city employees that did not fully support her reelection campaign.
Even if they aren’t true, rumors about her pretending to be pregnant to cover up her teenage daughter’s accidental pregnancy are not going to help her image.
Ninja editing: Her Wikipedia entry needed to be cleaned up before the public announcement that she was McCain’s VP pick.
She has no clue about the role of the Vice President.
It is quite clear she was chosen just because of her gender (most Republicans have never even heard of her), and she’s being used as a trick by the McCain campaign to gain some of Hillary Clinton’s supporters.

[The Senator]

New CBS Poll (conducted and released after the Palin pick):

Obama-Biden: 48%
McCain-Palin: 40%

[Excel]

What is this "Troopergate"???

Jesus...

:hehe:

NOT a good day for the GOP, especially on the day of their conventions commence.

[Tron5000]

Damn... and it keeps coming.

So, are you in belief that the husband of Sarah Palin having been convicted of DUI 24 years ago in some way is a knock against her ability to perform the duties of Vice President?

[Excel]

They are just painting a bad picture fo her in general, and DUI are some serious ****. Dont to get MADD...mad....at them.

[X Knight]

You can bet conservatives and Republicans would rip either one a new one for being a "bad parent" and not having family values. I'm surprised and thankful no one has really gone after Obama being raised by a mostly-single parent who had him when 18-years-old. Well the fringe right do go after that (read excerpts from "Obama Nation"), but they are just wacko.

Again it doesn't bug me, I just love the hypocrisy of it and do predict that it WILL be a problem for some other people, though.

I'm a young conservative who believes in strong family values.

If this situation had happened to Obama's or Biden's family....and they handled it with grace, class, and dignity like the Palin's are doing.....then I would applaud them for that, respect their privacy, and wish the young couple all the best of luck.

I would be able to separate a private family matter ( and one that's being handled responsibly ) from the REAL ISSUES at hand.....such an issue would not be relevant to me as to whether or not Obama/Biden is qualified for the job.

I would NOT be going onto message boards and REVELING with glee over this issue.........

[Tron5000]

They are just painting a bad picture fo her in general, and DUI are some serious ****. Dont to get MADD...mad....at them.

Yeah, but it wasn't HER DUI, and it was 24 YEARS AGO.

Now, if he had come out recently with a statement like, "Frankly, I don't think I drank enough," THEN it might be a problem.

[StorminNorman]

Damn... and it keeps coming.

Again, I love the fact that posters that have bashed people for mentioning irrelevant stories are now...basing their attacks on irrelevant stories :up:

[Excel]

Her family is just as important as she is in the eyes of the public; it speaks about her character. The dui story is kind of pointless though, W had the same ****.

[DorkyFresh]

question...i keep seeing people say she's anti-birth control, but her wiki and other sites claim that's she's pro-contraception. so....does anyone TRULY know her stance on condoms, pills, etc?

[souvlaki]

So, are you in belief that the husband of Sarah Palin having been convicted of DUI 24 years ago in some way is a knock against her ability to perform the duties of Vice President?

It's nothing more than a reflection on the attitudes of the religious right, and politicians in general that try to take the high road on everything from abstinence to strong moral and religious values, to personal responsibility when it's apparent that they are no better than anyone else.

[jaguarr]

So, are you in belief that the husband of Sarah Palin having been convicted of DUI 24 years ago in some way is a knock against her ability to perform the duties of Vice President?

I personally feel that piece of data is irrelevant to whether Sarah Palin is capable of doing the job or not.

jag

[kainedamo]

A 25 old DWI offense on her husband has no relevance.

[souvlaki]

question...i keep seeing people say she's anti-birth control, but her wiki and other sites claim that's she's pro-contraception. so....does anyone TRULY know her stance on condoms, pills, etc?

She belongs to a feminist organization that is against the use of contraception. What her personal views are is anyone's guess, but I've heard nothing to prove otherwise. I suppose if she denounces Feminists For Life and their stance on those issues we'll know. I'm not about to start saying "hey, you belong to this organization so those must represent your views" for obvious reasons. On the other hand, until she says otherwise it's all people have to go on.

[jaguarr]

Besides, Todd has his hands full taking care of the family and keeping bad things from happening to them, like say...their 17 year old daughter getting pregnant. :ninja:

:cheapshot:

jag

[Tron5000]

It's nothing more than a reflection on the attitudes of the religious right, and politicians in general that try to take the high road on everything from abstinence to strong moral and religious values, to personal responsibility when it's apparent that they are no better than anyone else.

Well, yes, everyone on this planet is actually human and makes mistakes. Dude made a mistake 24 years ago; I haven't heard him out lecturing people on how they need to stay away from the sauce, have you?

[Tron5000]

question...i keep seeing people say she's anti-birth control, but her wiki and other sites claim that's she's pro-contraception. so....does anyone TRULY know her stance on condoms, pills, etc?

From what I've read (which is a lot, these past few days), she opposes abortion but supports contraception. Which is very commonplace among Conservatives and those who are religious (the two are not always one in the same, by the way).

[souvlaki]

Well, yes, everyone on this planet is actually human and makes mistakes. Dude made a mistake 24 years ago; I haven't heard him out lecturing people on how they need to stay away from the sauce, have you?

I just personally have a problem with the religious right forcing their beliefs on the public when it's obvious they are no better or worse than anyone else. Exactly, people make mistakes, so why act like you know what is better or worse with my children when it's obvious you've got problems of your own?

[SentinelMind]

Several sources from CNN claims McCain was aware of the daughter's teenage pregnancy last week and knew it would be a matter of time for it to be revealed.
I'm sure they knew about DUI, too.

When you have a Presidential candidate who admitted the he did several hard drugs including cocaine, for any liberal to pretend to be outraged over Palin's husband 25 year old DUI is absurd and astounding.

[Tron5000]

I just personally have a problem with the religious right forcing their beliefs on the public when it's obvious they are no better or worse than anyone else. Exactly, people make mistakes. But don't force your own moral beliefs on me when it's obvious you are no better or worse.

Oh, you mean like how Democrats force their beliefs on everyone? Like, say, Roe v Wade, for example?

Exactly what "beliefs" are the religious right trying to force upon the country?

[Tron5000]

Several sources from CNN claims McCain was aware of the daughter's teenage pregnancy last week and knew it would be a matter of time for it to be revealed.
I'm sure they knew about DUI, too.

When you have a Presidential candidate who admitted the he did several hard drugs including cocaine, for any liberal to pretend to be outraged over Palin's husband 25 year old DUI is absurd and astounding.

Well, she was fully vetted by the FBI before McCain picked her. He may know more about her that she herself does.

[Matt]

It was the 80s. We all did crazy things. :cwink: But seriously...a 25 year old DWI...its a bit of a stretch to try to use that.

[souvlaki]

Oh, you mean like how Democrats force their beliefs on everyone? Like, say, Roe v Wade, for example?

Exactly what "beliefs" are the religious right trying to force upon the country?

Um, that is completely different. A mother has the option to either have an abortion or not. It's not like Democrats are requiring every woman not ready to have a child to go to an abortion clinic.

[SuperT]

question...i keep seeing people say she's anti-birth control, but her wiki and other sites claim that's she's pro-contraception. so....does anyone TRULY know her stance on condoms, pills, etc?

I think someone posted this a couple pages back, but here's an article from the CNN Political Ticker where she backs abstinence says "explicit" sex education will not get her support

September 1, 2008
Palin backed abstinence education
Posted: 02:00 PM ET

(CNN) – Sarah Palin, who announced on Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, indicated during her run for Alaska governor that she was a firm supporter of abstinence-only education in schools.

In a 2006 Eagle Forum questionnaire, Palin indicated that she supported funding abstinence-until-marriage education programs instead of teaching sex-education programs.

"Explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," Palin wrote in the conservative group’s questionnaire.

[souvlaki]

And in answer to your question, Tron, off the top of my head, abortion, censorship, family values, sex education, religion being taught in schools... and thats only off the top of my head.

[SentinelMind]

^To Super T,

Can you provide me any evidence that explicit sex education has been successful in reducing teenage pregnancies/STDs? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

[Tron5000]

Um, that is completely different. A mother has the option to either have an abortion or not. It's not like Democrats are requiring every woman not ready to have a child to go to an abortion clinic.

So you admit that she is a "mother" when pregnant, so I would assume that there would have to be a child, since she's a "mother" and all. That means she has the "option" to kill her child?

A woman (I assume that's what you meant) does have choices. Like the choice of whether or not to have sex, and whether or not to use protection.

But I'm not here for an abortion discussion. Just think your view is interesting, that's all.

[Tron5000]

And in answer to your question, Tron, off the top of my head, abortion, censorship, family values, sex education, religion being taught in schools... and thats only off the top of my head.

Exactly which (public) schools teach religion and family values? Not the ones I attended.

But they did teach me how to properly put on a condom...something my parents had done prior to that, and something that should be taught at home, not at school.

Schools should teach history, math, language arts, sciences, and various electives. Sex has no place in school; that's a parental matter. I don't want some government-paid teacher instructing my children in matters of a sexual nature. That's what you sign up for when you become a parent.

[DorkyFresh]

thanx for the response to my question guys.

^To Super T,

Can you provide me any evidence that explicit sex education has been successful in reducing teenage pregnancies/STDs? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

why are you asking Super T to give you evidence when he was just giving me an answer to the question i posed of whether or not Sarah Palin is pro or anti-contraception?

[SuperT]

^To Super T,

Can you provide me any evidence that explicit sex education has been successful in reducing teenage pregnancies/STDs? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

Are you serious?!?

It's common freak'in sense that if you use condoms or contraceptives that the risk of underage or unwanted pregnancies is greatly reduced as compared to just going out there and having sex w/o anything to protect you.

I can't believe there are still people in this society that are so ignorant and willing to sabotage our childrens lives because they are in denial that they are having sex. Teaching just abstinence is absolutely RIDICULOUS!

[souvlaki]

So you admit that she is a "mother" when pregnant, so I would assume that there would have to be a child, since she's a "mother" and all. That means she has the "option" to kill her child?

A woman (I assume that's what you meant) does have choices. Like the choice of whether or not to have sex, and whether or not to use protection.

But I'm not here for an abortion discussion. Just think your view is interesting, that's all.

Way to take one word and spin it there. You know what I meant. A woman has the option whether or not to have an abortion. And don't make it sound like it's as simplistic as that. First off, people make mistakes. Second off, not every pregnancy is the result of consensual sex. I just dont personally see why your views on when life begins or doesn't begin should be forced on people. That's for the woman to decide. And that is exactly why it's not a view that is forced upon you, so I don't get your logic as to how Democrats force their views about abortion onto people. They give people the option if they choose to do so. They also give you the option if you choose not to go that route.

[X Knight]

personally...I'm pro-choice myself. That's the 1 issue I agree with Obama on......:wow:

however.....I'm voting for the McCain/Palin ticket this fall.......

The day McCain announced Palin as his VP pick was the first time in the entire campaign where I actually felt excited and energized ( I guess how all the dems feel about Obama ).....and......all of these smear attacks against Palin and her family in the last few days.....has only strengthened my resolve to support McCain and Palin..........:o

[kainedamo]

There's been a lot of evidence that suggests abstinance only education programs are a failure.

[Tron5000]

Are you serious?!?

It's common freak'in sense that if you use condoms or contraceptives that the risk of underage or unwanted pregnancies is greatly reduced as compared to just going out there and having sex w/o anything to protect you.

I can't believe there are still people in this society that are so ignorant and willing to sabotage our childrens lives because they are in denial that they are having sex. Teaching just abstinence is absolutely RIDICULOUS!

Common sense does not = statistics. It is my belief that many teens (myself included, when I was a teen) engage in sexual intercourse because they are taught that wearing a condom and using birth control means they will not become pregnant. So, common sense states that if you are taught that you can engage in risky behavior as long as you minimize the risk involved, go ahead, but just make sure that you're safe.

You're a lot safer just not having sex in the first place.

[comicgirl]

There's been a lot of evidence that suggests abstinance only educationprograms are a failure.:grin::grin:lot's of 9 months later evidence........................A-yup.

[Tron5000]

There's been a lot of evidence that suggests abstinance only educationprograms are a failure.

Evidence that I assume you can present to us?

[Franklin Richards]

Oh, you mean like how Democrats force their beliefs on everyone? Like, say, Roe v Wade, for example?

Exactly what "beliefs" are the religious right trying to force upon the country?

That's a joke right?

Gay Marriage.
Separation of Church and State.
Intelligent Design.
Anti-abortion.
Blue Laws.
Prostitution.
Marijuana Prohibition.
Liquor / Beer / Tobacco advertisements.

And don't even bring up infractions of the past.

EDIT---Oh and don't forget Jesus.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[DorkyFresh]

Exactly which (public) schools teach religion and family values? Not the ones I attended.

But they did teach me how to properly put on a condom...something my parents had done prior to that, and something that should be taught at home, not at school.

Schools should teach history, math, language arts, sciences, and various electives. Sex has no place in school; that's a parental matter. I don't want some government-paid teacher instructing my children in matters of a sexual nature. That's what you sign up for when you become a parent.

my personal opinion...i'm very glad that sex education is being taught in schools. my parents weren't exactly very involved with my life as a teen and i've only talked to them about my sex life a total of maybe 3 times and they were very short and direct conversations. had they not taught sex ed in schools, i wouldn't have nearly as much knowledge on the matter. it's easy to say that parents should take responsibility for teaching their children right from wrong, but it's something entirely different to persuade them or make them do as such, especially considering more and more parents are neglecting their children's education.

imo, it's better for individuals in a society to look after each other rather than to just let each other do their own thang.

[Excel]

You're a lot safer just not having sex in the first place.

Yes, but if you can and want to have sex, you should be able to without the worry of having a baby.

[kainedamo]

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9831189

AIDS
Time to grow up
Sep 20th 2007
From The Economist print edition

“Abstinence only” education does not slow the spread of AIDS

THERE can be no surer way of averting a sexually transmitted infection such as AIDS than avoiding sex. That much is obvious. And it is also convenient for religious lobbyists who believe that premarital sex is a sin. But is it realistic? Those lobbyists argue that a popular alternative—known in the jargon as “abstinence-plus”—which recommends chastity but also explains how to use condoms, is likely to make things worse by encouraging earlier intercourse. “Abstinence-only” teaching, they reckon, should be more effective.

That, of course, is a possibility. But it is a testable possibility. And Kristen Underhill and her colleagues at the University of Oxford have, over the past few months, been testing it. Their conclusion is that it is wrong. Abstinence-only does not work. Abstinence-plus probably does.

Last month Dr Underhill published a review of 13 trials involving 16,000 young people in America. The trials compared the sexual behaviour of those given an abstinence-only education with that of those who were provided with no information at all or with whatever their schools normally taught. Pregnancies were as numerous in both groups. Sexually transmitted diseases were as widespread. The number of sexual partners was equally high and unprotected sex just as common.

Having thus discredited abstinence-only teaching, Dr Underhill and her colleagues decided to evaluate the slightly more complicated message of “abstinence-plus” using 39 trials that involved 38,000-odd young people from the United States, Canada and the Bahamas. Their results are published in the current issue of Public Library of Science MedicineThis tuition—compared, as before, with whatever biology classes and playgrounds provide—reduced the number of pregnancies in three out of seven trials (the remaining four recorded no difference). Four out of 13 trials found that abstinence-plus-educated teenagers had fewer sexual partners, while the remainder showed no change. Fourteen studies reported that it increased condom use; 12 others reported no difference. Furthermore, in the vast majority of cases, abstinence-plus participants knew more about AIDS and HIV (the virus that causes the disease) than their peers did. And the tuition often reduced the frequency of anal sex (which brings a greater chance of passing on HIV than the vaginal option). In contrast to the fears of the protagonists of abstinence-only education, not one of the trials found that teenagers behaved in a riskier fashion in either the long or the short term after receiving abstinence-plus instruction.

Unfortunately (and surprisingly) only two of the studies addressed the question of disease transmission directly, and the numbers involved were too small to find a statistically significant difference between groups. Nevertheless, Dr Underhill's pair of reviews should make informative reading for policymakers. America's government earmarks money for abstinence-only teaching, which is matched by individual states. It should review that policy—which is clearly no better than the alternatives, and is probably worse. Its generosity to needy foreigners is similarly prescriptive. Of the $15 billion promised over five years by PEPFAR, President George Bush's personal anti-AIDS initiative, $1 billion is reserved for groups that intend to fight AIDS without mentioning condoms. Though Dr Underhill's results apply only to North America, they do suggest a need to investigate what happens elsewhere, in case PEPFAR's policy, too, needs to be reviewed.

A dose of prevention

Teaching people about what they might wear during intercourse is an important way of reducing the chance of them catching HIV. But teaching them, in addition, about what drugs they could take to reduce that risk may be added to the syllabus in the future. A vaccine is still a long way off, but four clinical trials—in Peru and Ecuador, Thailand, Botswana and also America—are assessing how well daily anti-retroviral pills, which are normally prescribed to control established HIV infections, prevent the virus infecting healthy people who do dangerous things. The results of these trials will be plugged into epidemiological computer models to assess the likely effect of various drug-distribution policies.

One model intended to do exactly that has already been built, by Ume Abbas and John Mellors of the University of Pittsburgh. It is designed to mimic a mature HIV epidemic in sub-Saharan Africa—which it did rather well when the researchers tested its output against data from Zambia, a country in which the epidemic has remained stable for a decade.

Writing in PLoS Medicine's sister journal, PLoS ONE, Dr Abbas and Dr Mellors describe what happened when they added prophylactic anti-retroviral drugs to the model. They experimented with different measures of drug efficacy and with different groups of people taking the pills.

Assuming that anti-retrovirals work 90% of the time and are taken by three-quarters of sexually active people, their model suggests that new HIV infections in sub-Saharan Africa would be cut by 74% over 10 years. Unfortunately, the idea of providing and delivering so many drugs to so many people is logistically implausible. And even if it could be done, it would cost about $6,000 per HIV infection averted—a lot of money in Africa.

However, giving the drug to the 16% of Africans who behave most riskily would be easier and could lead to a 29% reduction over a decade at only a tenth of that cost. A harsh calculation, but a realistic one—unlike expecting teenagers to give up sex because you tell them to.

[comicgirl]

Evidence that I assume you can present to us?



http://img.thebody.com/legacyAssets/48/17/condoms.gif



=



http://www.pregnancy-leads-to-new-babies.com/images/newborn-baby-picture-photo.jpg


Questions?????????>......Sir, questions????????????

[Tron5000]

Way to take one word and spin it there. You know what I meant. A woman has the option whether or not to have an abortion. And don't make it sound like it's as simplistic as that. First off, people make mistakes. Second off, not every pregnancy is the result of consensual sex. I just dont personally see why your views on when life begins or doesn't begin should be forced on people. That's for the woman to decide. And that is exactly why it's not a view that is forced upon you, so I don't get your logic as to how Democrats force their views about abortion onto people. They give people the option if they choose to do so. They also give you the option if you choose not to go that route.

So you DID mean "woman," not "mother." Just checking.

Can you define when life begins? If not, then how can you say an abortion is OK because the fetus is not a live person? You must first define the terms.

And how about Obama voting against a measure that would allow doctors in Illinois to provide nourishment for babies who were failed abortions? He voted to ensure that doctors could not provide assistance to these babies, instead making them basically starve to death?

Pushing your beliefs on others. Tsk tsk.

[SuperT]

Common sense does not = statistics. It is my belief that many teens (myself included, when I was a teen) engage in sexual intercourse because they are taught that wearing a condom and using birth control means they will not become pregnant. So, common sense states that if you are taught that you can engage in risky behavior as long as you minimize the risk involved, go ahead, but just make sure that you're safe.

You're a lot safer just not having sex in the first place.

KIDS ARE HAVING SEX ANYWAY!!

Of course parents don't want their kids to have sex, but it is our job as a society to educate them on the safest ways to protect themselves when they engage in such acts.

That education can go a lot further then just childhood. There are plenty of adults that still need to learn about safe sex. Why do you think STD's are so rampant?!?!

[comicgirl]

And how about Obama voting against a measure that would allow doctors in Illinois to provide nourishment for babies who were failed abortions? He voted to ensure that doctors could not provide assistance to these babies, instead making them basically starve to death?

Tsk tsk.
REally..................post it

[Tron5000]

Yes, but if you can and want to have sex, you should be able to without the worry of having a baby.

Um, no. Pregnancy is an effect of having sex. Cause = having sex. Effect = having a baby. If you are not ready to raise a child, you should not have sex.

Unless you get tied or snipped. Then, go along your merry way. However, if you are physically capable of impregnating someone or of becoming pregnant, you better be willing to accept the effects of your actions.

"Go ahead; have fun and have sex! But don't worry about that whole pregnancy thing; we'll take care of that for you on your lunch break."

[comicgirl]

KIDS ARE HAVING SEX ANYWAY!!

Of course parents don't want their kids to have sex, but it is our job as a society to educate them on the safest ways to protect themselves when they engage in such acts.

That education can go a lot further then just childhood. There are plenty of adults that still need to learn about safe sex. Why do you think STD's are so rampant?!?!I LOVE YOU !!!!!!! Yeah!!!!


This message is approved by COMICGIRL - STD Tollfree Factline Volunteer since 1997!!!!!!!!!!!! (Check the Blue Pages in your local Phone Book

[Tron5000]

REally..................post it

Google "Obama abortion." You'll find lots of stuff. But here ya go anyway:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html

But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.

[SentinelMind]

Are you serious?!?

It's common freak'in sense that if you use condoms or contraceptives that the risk of underage or unwanted pregnancies is greatly reduced as compared to just going out there and having sex w/o anything to protect you.

I can't believe there are still people in this society that are so ignorant and willing to sabotage our childrens lives because they are in denial that they are having sex. Teaching just abstinence is absolutely RIDICULOUS!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/nov/21/health.sexeducation

That is British research. There is research that contradicts your assertion. When you teach safe sex, yes...some teenagers may understand use it properly, but the net impact is that overall it creates an environment and culture that encourages the entire class to explore sexuality at an earlier age than they would have. They're pressured by culture, peers, older men, and now their school. It creates an environment where they are encouraged to try sex earlier than they would have.

[Tron5000]

REally..................post it

Here's another for you:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647

Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) portrays himself as a thoughtful Democrat who carefully considers both sides of controversial issues, but his radical stance on abortion puts him further left on that issue than even NARAL Pro-Choice America.

In 2002, as an Illinois legislator, Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush. Only 15 members of the U.S. House opposed it, and it passed the Senate unanimously on a voice vote.

Both the Illinois and the federal bill sought equal treatment for babies who survived premature inducement for the purpose of abortion and wanted babies who were born prematurely and given live-saving medical attention.

When the federal bill was being debated, NARAL Pro-Choice America released a statement that said, “Consistent with our position last year, NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act ... floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.”

But Obama voted against this bill in the Illinois senate and killed it in committee. Twice, the Induced Infant Liability Act came up in the Judiciary Committee on which he served. At its first reading he voted “present.” At the second he voted “no.”

The bill was then referred to the senate’s Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired after the Illinois Senate went Democratic in 2003. As chairman, he never called the bill up for a vote.

Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said.

At the end of the hearing, according to the official records of the Illinois State senate, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright,” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

As a senator, Obama has opposed measures to criminalize those who transport minors across state lines for the purpose of obtaining an abortion.

At a townhall meeting in Ottawa, Ill., Joanne Resendiz, a teacher and mother of five, asked him: “How are you going to vote on this, keeping in mind that 10, 15 years down the line your daughters, God forbid, could be transported across state lines?”

Obama said: “The decision generally is one that a woman should make.”

[comicgirl]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/nov/21/health.sexeducation

That is British research. There is research that contradicts your assertion. When you teach safe sex, yes...some teenagers may understand use it properly, but the net impact is that overall it creates an environment and culture that encourages the entire class to explore sexuality at an earlier age than they would have. They're pressured by culture, peers, older men, and now their school. It creates an environment where they are encouraged to try sex earlier than they would have.


But, at least...They Know About the Option to use contreceptives!!! They're not kept ignorant or fed misinformation about condoms, etc. It gives them a choice.

[souvlaki]

Can you define when life begins? If not, then how can you say an abortion is OK because the fetus is not a live person? You must first define the terms.


Okay, I'm not about to get in a discussion with you about abortion other than to say it's obvious my beliefs differ from yours. And that's the whole point right there. The government should have no role in deciding when life does or does not begin.

[DorkyFresh]

Of course parents don't want their kids to have sex, but it is our job as a society to educate them on the safest ways to protect themselves when they engage in such acts.

thank you. of course, we all want to respect other people's privacy but i think we should also be involved in our societies rather than just letting everyone do whatever they want. there are many irresponsible people that do whatever they want, so if we were to say "let them do their own thing" then that's irresponsible in itself. America is the land of freedom, but that doesn't mean we can't take responsibility for the irresponsible.

[Tron5000]

Okay, I'm not about to get in a discussion with you about abortion other than to say it's obvious my beliefs differ from yours. And that's the whole point right there. The government should have no role in deciding when life does or does not begin.

So who decides? The "mother"? Can she have an abortion a week before her due date, yet claim that she decided life had not yet begun, so it's OK? If the government does not make that distinction, who among us is qualified to do so?

[kainedamo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/nov/21/health.sexeducation

That is British research. There is research that contradicts your assertion. When you teach safe sex, yes...some teenagers may understand use it properly, but the net impact is that overall it creates an environment and culture that encourages the entire class to explore sexuality at an earlier age than they would have. They're pressured by culture, peers, older men, and now their school. It creates an environment where they are encouraged to try sex earlier than they would have.

Known as Share, for "sexual health and relationships: safe, happy and responsible", the programme was designed by the Medical Research Council and NHS Health Scotland to improve sex education by using interactive videos, group work and role play to develop the skills needed for sexual relationships.

Sounds kinda dumb.

When sex ed is employed [i]properly[i/], it always shows a drop in the nations where it is applied.

Every study shows that abstinance only ed fails.

And look at my article above. Abstinance only ed does nothing to slow the spread of AIDs.

[SentinelMind]

Okay, I'm not about to get in a discussion with you about abortion other than to say it's obvious my beliefs differ from yours. And that's the whole point right there. The government should have no role in deciding when life does or does not begin.

I love this type of Obamaspeak....as if not discussing the issue somehow creates a compromise between the two sides "we might not agree on abortion, so let's not discuss it"
..., when in reality, not discussing the issue leaves the status-quo in the pro-choice realm. By status quo, you are allowing the people carrying out the abortion to decide when life begins. Someone has to decide if you're allowing abortion.

...but I'll carry this in other thread if necessary.

[Matt]

I gotta say, it is amazing that the McCain thread has been active for six months, and this one for six days, yet it is only 200 posts away from topping the McCain thread.

[Tron5000]

I gotta say, it is amazing that the McCain thread has been active for six months, and this one for six days, yet it is only 200 posts away from topping the McCain thread.

People are nervous...

[SuperT]

People are nervous...

LOL

After the the skeletons that crawled out of the closet today, I think the only people that are nervous are McCain and Palin.

[souvlaki]

I love this type of Obamaspeak....as if not discussing the issue somehow creates a compromise between the two sides "we might not agree on abortion, so let's not discuss it"
..., when in reality, not discussing the issue leaves the status-quo in the pro-choice realm. By status quo, you are allowing the people carrying out the abortion to decide when life begins. Someone has to decide if you're allowing abortion.

...but I'll carry this in other thread if necessary.

What is not to understand? We agree to disagree. People have different beliefs about different things, and it's not the government's role to force any one belief on anyone, be it religion, abortion, or the like. I'm just not going to get into a discussion with anyone about abortion because it's a subject that never ends well, same as how I'm not about to get into a discussion with any of you about my religious beliefs. Some things are personal, and if you cant respect that, then that's your problem.