The Sarah Palin Thread (You can see Russia from this thread)

[Tron5000]

LOL

After the the skeletons that crawled out of the closet today, I think the only people that are nervous are McCain and Palin.

A pregnant teenage daughter and a 24-year-old DUI by her husband are "skeletons"? Man, you guys really are grasping at straws.

McCain knew these things before making her his VP. He understand they had no bearing on her ability to perform the job of Vice President. So you really think he's "nervous" right now?

"OMG! That stuff that we already knew about you and knew what come out to the public has come out! WTF are we going to do? Aaarrrrgggghhh!"

[Überlibran]

Google "Obama abortion." You'll find lots of stuff. But here ya go anyway:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html This is a crock.
Obama adamantly denies this:Brody: Real quick, the born alive infant protection act. I gotta tell you that's the one thing I get a lot of emails about and it's just not just from Evangelicals, it about Catholics, Protestants, main -- they're trying to understand it because there was some literature put out by the National Right to Life Committee. And they're basically saying they felt like you misrepresented your position on that bill.
Obama: Let me clarify this right now.
Brody: Because it's getting a lot of play.
Obama: Well and because they have not been telling the truth. And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying. I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported - which was to say --that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born - even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion. That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade. By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in Illinois that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.
So for people to suggest that I and the Illinois medical society, so Illinois doctors were somehow in favor of withholding life saving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous. It defies commonsense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it's an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond. It's one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice, it's another thing for people to out and out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they're wrong. And that's what's been happening.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429313.aspx

[X Knight]

it's not the government's role to force any one belief on anyone, be it religion, abortion, or the like.

on that we agree.....

[Tron5000]

This is a crock.
Obama adamantly denies this:http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429313.aspx

No, OBAMA is the liar. Just look at his vote on the issue. He voted against it. Now he's claiming that people are making stuff up. But if the Big O says it, it must be true, right?

There's a word for it...I think it's....What's the word?

Oh, yeah. Gullible. That's it.

[souvlaki]

A pregnant teenage daughter and a 24-year-old DUI by her husband are "skeletons"? Man, you guys really are grasping at straws.

McCain knew these things before making her his VP. He understand they had no bearing on her ability to perform the job of Vice President. So you really think he's "nervous" right now?

"OMG! That stuff that we already knew about you and knew what come out to the public has come out! WTF are we going to do? Aaarrrrgggghhh!"

If you think those are the only issues that people are concerned with regarding Palin you are sorely mistaken. Those are, in all actuality, the least of her problems. See the first 50 or so pages for the real issues people have a problem with.

[StrainedEyes]

I gotta say, it is amazing that the McCain thread has been active for six months, and this one for six days, yet it is only 200 posts away from topping the McCain thread.

Aside from McCain making funny mistakes in his speeches, there isn't much to talk about.

[Tron5000]

If you think those are the only issues that people are concerned with regarding Palin you are sorely mistaken. Those are, in all actuality, the least of her problems. See the first 50 or so pages for the real issues people have a problem with.

I was responding to a comment about the skeletons that came out the last day. The first 50 pages don't cover that time frame, so your post has no relevance to this particular discussion. Thanks for playing, though. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.

[Excel]

Cause = having sex. Effect = having a baby"

I didnt realize you were born in the 1930's. Nowadays, its:

Cause = having unprotected sex. Effect = having a baby

[Tron5000]

I didnt realize you were born in the 1930's. Nowadays, its:

Cause = having unprotected sex. Effect = having a baby

So no one has ever become pregnant while using contraception? Sex with contraception has never caused the effect of an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy?

Damn, the wool really has been pulled over my eyes.

[Franklin Richards]

You are ridiculous. Contraception is exponentially more effective than pulling out. And this abstinence bull crap doesn't work for common people. Ask Palin.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StrainedEyes]

So no one has ever become pregnant while using contraception? Sex with contraception has never caused the effect of an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy?

Damn, the wool really has been pulled over my eyes.

We need to go back to animal intestine condoms.

[The Chairman]

Either way, I think the prgenancy issue will hurt Palin. She present her and her family as total right wing Conservative Christians, yet he daughter is having underage sex and is now pregnant? This will definitely hurt her in my opinion, even if she really had no control over her duaghter's hormones.

[kainedamo]

I had this HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE ass post ready where I quoted the article from the following link and had a lot of my own talking points. But as I tried to post it my connection cut off. So here is the link.

States Refuse Abstinence Ed. Grants

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1817663,00.html

Skeptical states are shoving aside millions of federal dollars for abstinence education, walking away from the program the Bush administration touts for slowing teen sexual activity. Barely half the states are still in, and two more say they are leaving.

[kainedamo]

My article on the previous page which states abstinance only education does nothing to slow the spread of AIDs has went ignored.

[StrainedEyes]

Either way, I think the prgenancy issue will hurt Palin. She present her and her family as total right wing Conservative Christians, yet he daughter is having underage sex and is now pregnant? This will definitely hurt her in my opinion, even if she really had no control over her duaghter's hormones.

Again, it's not underage. Premarital, yes, underage, no.

[Gilpesh]

Just look at his vote on the issue. He voted against it.

Wait wait wait... you're saying that you believe that never in the history of our government has a bill ever had language in it that could be applied in another way so that they could sneak other things by everyone else.

There's a word for it...I think it's....What's the word?

Oh, yeah. Gullible. That's it.

[Tron5000]

Either way, I think the prgenancy issue will hurt Palin. She present her and her family as total right wing Conservative Christians, yet he daughter is having underage sex and is now pregnant? This will definitely hurt her in my opinion, even if she really had no control over her duaghter's hormones.

One person does not have control of another's hormones. That doesn't even make sense.

Do you really think Christians will be upset that her daughter became pregnant? Or is it more likely that they will be energized by the fact that she accepted responsibility for her actions (kind of a big deal with Conservatives) and also made the adult decision to marry the father and be "punished" with a child, rather than going to the clinic for a quick fix?

[Tron5000]

You are ridiculous. Contraception is exponentially more effective than pulling out. And this abstinence bull crap doesn't work for common people. Ask Palin.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

I never said anything about pulling out, so I don't see where that critique is coming from.

"Common people" understand that there is a cause and effect relationship to the decisions that we make. Don't have sex...won't get pregnant. That's pretty simple, even for someone as "ridiculous" as myself.

[Franklin Richards]

Again, it's not underage. Premarital, yes, underage, no.



Because that's the deal breaker. She can't vote. She can't drink. Her mom said she was growing up too quick. This is what's know as a bad thing.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Tron5000]

Wait wait wait... you're saying that you believe that never in the history of our government has a bill ever had language in it that could be applied in another way so that they could sneak other things by everyone else.

There's a word for it...I think it's....What's the word?

Oh, yeah. Gullible. That's it.

Um.....no. I never said that. But Obama knew what he was voting against, and he did it anyway. That's why he only voted "present" the first time, so it would not be used against him. He screwed up on the second vote, however.

[kainedamo]

"Thanks for making it out on a rainy Saturday, kids. Slippery out there, huh? Let's get started. We're gonna have some fun today!

Car accidents are a leading cause of death for teenagers. The school board and your elected representatives want to make sure that you and your families are spared from such a tragedy, which is why the money for driver's ed was eliminated from the budget. Whereas last year I was teaching your older siblings how to shift and brake and three-point-turn during a six-week course, it has since been decreed that I actually need just one afternoon to tell you the only piece of safety information I'm permitted by law to share:

The ONLY 100 percent effective method for avoiding car accidents is to ABSTAIN from driving until marriage."

"Abstinence-Only Drivers' Ed" by Suzanne Kleid on McSweeney's.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2008/2/22kleid.html

[Tron5000]

My article on the previous page which states abstinance only education does nothing to slow the spread of AIDs has went ignored.

'Cause no one cares about your article.

And are you telling me that being abstinent won't save you from AIDS? But safe sex will?

[Franklin Richards]

I never said anything about pulling out, so I don't see where that critique is coming from.

"Common people" understand that there is a cause and effect relationship to the decisions that we make. Don't have sex...won't get pregnant. That's pretty simple, even for someone as "ridiculous" as myself.


Well us regular folk ****. And when we do we use contraception. Because every sperm is not sacred.

Cause : Sperm
Effect : Pregnancy

Solution : Stop sperm. By any means necessary.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[The Chairman]

One person does not have control of another's hormones. That doesn't even make sense.

Do you really think Christians will be upset that her daughter became pregnant? Or is it more likely that they will be energized by the fact that she accepted responsibility for her actions (kind of a big deal with Conservatives) and also made the adult decision to marry the father and be "punished" with a child, rather than going to the clinic for a quick fix?

I mean that Palin had no ocntrol over whether or not her daughter was having sex.

And no, they wont, because the religious right is far too naive to know when they're being duped by someone who claims to share their beliefs but is in fact doing it solely exploiting them for political gain. I'm a Christian and I'm pretty aware the Right is in fact not mindful of Jesus's teachings at all and are simply looking at the Bible Belt as solely a political ploy to attract a key voting block.

I'm not saying Palin is like this necessarily, but for someone who claims to be as conservative in both her politics and religious as she does, and that her family follows these values, this situation definitely looks a bit spotty.

[StrainedEyes]

Because that's the deal breaker. She can't vote. She can't drink. Her mom said she was growing up too quick. This is what's know as a bad thing.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Either way, Bristol has been legally allowed to have sex with anyone she wants (same age or older) since she was 16.

[Gilpesh]

Um.....no. I never said that. But Obama knew what he was voting against, and he did it anyway. That's why he only voted "present" the first time, so it would not be used against him. He screwed up on the second vote, however.

Have you read the entire bill he voted against? Or only the part that serves your purpose of making him seem like a bastard?

And you completely did say that when you called him a liar when he had said that bill had extra fat on it that was an attempt to undermine Roe v Wade.

[Franklin Richards]

'Cause no one cares about your article.

And are you telling me that being abstinent won't save you from AIDS? But safe sex will?



Ahhhh and here comes the Fear Campaign. Believe it or not, monogamous people get AIDS too. And some of them don't want babies either.

This is conservative dogma trying to get in my bedroom. AGAIN.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Tron5000]

Well us regular folk ****. And when we do we use contraception. Because every sperm is not sacred.

Cause : Sperm
Effect : Pregnancy

Solution : Stop sperm. By any means necessary.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Stop sperm from entering a woman's nether regions. Best "means necessary"? No sex.

Hey, I had sex when I was a teen. My parents had me at the ages of 17 and 18. I always knew what could happen as a result of my having sex, and I accepted that responsibility. I would've stood up like a man, as my father did, and been a father myself. I was never under any false pretenses that a condom would save me from impregnating someone.

BTW, I was taught these lessons at home, not by some government-employed indoctrinator.

[Franklin Richards]

Either way, Bristol has been legally allowed to have sex with anyone she wants (same age or older) since she was 16.

But doesn't that make Baby Jesus cry?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[kainedamo]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Rodrigue%20G%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

PIP: In Georgia, in the US, students who take part in a sex education program for eighth-graders called "Postponing Sexual Involvement" are 5-15 times less likely than their peers to start having sex in the ninth grade. In the US, 30% of babies born are born to unwed mothers, and 80% of the children born to unwed high-school dropouts grow up in poverty. This fact takes a great toll on the children and on society. The new sex education program began when its director, Dr. Marion Howard, realized that the traditional method of disseminating birth control information in sex education classes resulted in students acquiring a great deal of knowledge about contraception but not using it. She then noted the success of an antismoking program which used older teenagers as role models, and she learned that the young mothers wanted to know how to say no to sex without hurting a boyfriend's feelings. The new program, which reaches all eighth graders in Atlanta, begins with discussions of anatomy and contraception and then focuses on the risks of sexual activity, sexual pressures in society, and peer pressure . Older teenagers help the students discuss some of the "lines" that boys and girls use to pressure each other and help the students practice how to resist this pressure. Both the students and the teen counselors have benefitted from their involvement with this course.

[Tron5000]

I mean that Palin had no ocntrol over whether or not her daughter was having sex.

And no, they wont, because the religious right is far too naive to know when they're being duped by someone who claims to share their beliefs but is in fact doing it solely exploiting them for political gain. I'm a Christian and I'm pretty aware the Right is in fact not mindful of Jesus's teachings at all and are simply looking at the Bible Belt as solely a political ploy to attract a key voting block.

I'm not saying Palin is like this necessarily, but for someone who claims to be as conservative in both her politics and religious as she does, and that her family follows these values, this situation definitely looks a bit spotty.

So you're telling me that there are not good Christians whose children, having a mind of their own and all, become pregnant as a result of pre-marital sex?

Come on, now. At least she is willing to allow her daughter to be "punished with a baby." 'Cause Big O wouldn't let that happen to his little girls, y'know.

[Gilpesh]

I was never under any false pretenses that a condom would save me from impregnating someone.

Ha. If you don't believe condoms work... there's no hope to talk with you anymore.

[Tron5000]

Ahhhh and here comes the Fear Campaign. Believe it or not, monogamous people get AIDS too. And some of them don't want babies either.

This is conservative dogma trying to get in my bedroom. AGAIN.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

OK. If my fiancee does not have AIDS, and I don't have AIDS, then how will one of us get AIDS through sexual intercourse if we are monogamous? How in the world would that possibly happen?

[Tron5000]

Ha. If you don't believe condoms work... there's no hope to talk with you anymore.

They don't work ALL THE TIME. Do condom manufacturers claim that their product is 100% guaranteed to prevent sperm from entering a woman's body? If so, what's their web site and how can I get hooked up?

[Franklin Richards]

Stop sperm from entering a woman's nether regions. Best "means necessary"? No sex.

Hey, I had sex when I was a teen. My parents had me at the ages of 17 and 18. I always knew what could happen as a result of my having sex, and I accepted that responsibility. I would've stood up like a man, as my father did, and been a father myself. I was never under any false pretenses that a condom would save me from impregnating someone.

But it did.

BTW, I was taught these lessons at home, not by some government-employed indoctrinator. But Home Schooling doesn't work. Ask Palin. :D

I learned on the bus in public school like you're supposed to. Just let the kids wear jimmy hats. It helps for pete's sake.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Überlibran]

No, OBAMA is the liar. Just look at his vote on the issue. He voted against it. Now he's claiming that people are making stuff up. But if the Big O says it, it must be true, right?

There's a word for it...I think it's....What's the word?

Oh, yeah. Gullible. That's it. Uh, if you had read it, he had clarified that Illinois already had those precautions in place for babies that had survived and he voted against it because it lacked language in it that wouldn't undermine Roe v Wade on the federal level. But unfortunately nuance doesn't play as well as ZOMG OBAMA WANTZ BAYBEEZ TO DIE!!!11ELEVENTY!!!

[kainedamo]

I can think of one person abstinance didn't work for.

The Virgin Mary.

[Franklin Richards]

OK. If my fiancee does not have AIDS, and I don't have AIDS, then how will one of us get AIDS through sexual intercourse if we are monogamous? How in the world would that possibly happen?


It happens without intercourse. That's the point. You're just injecting fear into the argument. It's irrelevant. The argument is that contraceptives help reduce the chance of getting pregnant. AIDS has nothing to do with it. You can get AIDS without ****ing. But you can't get pregnant without ****ing.

EDIT---and envitro and other things don't count. that's artificial ****in'


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[kainedamo]

I have Tron5000 on ignore so can someone tell me if the guy is posting links to counter my links, or if he's just trying to shout over everyone?

The links I provide show that abstinance only education doesn't slow down AIDs and doesn't lower the numbers of teenage pregnancies. They also show that applied correctly sex education can drop the number of teenage pregnancies.

I'm sorry that the facts are so inconvenient for the moral brigade.

[StrainedEyes]

Hey, I had sex when I was a teen. My parents had me at the ages of 17 and 18. I always knew what could happen as a result of my having sex, and I accepted that responsibility. I would've stood up like a man, as my father did, and been a father myself. I was never under any false pretenses that a condom would save me from impregnating someone.


Did you use condoms during those formidable years?

[The Chairman]

So you're telling me that there are not good Christians whose children, having a mind of their own and all, become pregnant as a result of pre-marital sex?

Come on, now. At least she is willing to allow her daughter to be "punished with a baby." 'Cause Big O wouldn't let that happen to his little girls, y'know.

Obama would give them the option.

[Tron5000]

Uh, if you had read it, he had clarified that Illinois already had those precautions in place for babies that had survived and he voted against it because it lacked language in it that wouldn't undermine Roe v Wade on the federal level. But unfortunately nuance doesn't play as well as ZOMG OBAMA WANTZ BAYBEEZ TO DIE!!!11ELEVENTY!!!

What he said, at the time (when he wasn't up for the presidency, mind you), is:

"What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that."

"One more burden." A child. The most precious thing on Earth. He didn't want to "burden" a woman with a child that she did not want.

[Handsome Rob]

One person does not have control of another's hormones. That doesn't even make sense.

Do you really think Christians will be upset that her daughter became pregnant? Or is it more likely that they will be energized by the fact that she accepted responsibility for her actions (kind of a big deal with Conservatives) and also made the adult decision to marry the father and be "punished" with a child, rather than going to the clinic for a quick fix?

That's a big deal with me (Conservative and Christian). Trust me. :yay:

As someone with a single, unwed mom for a good friend, I'll guarantee you I respect her a heck of a lot more for having that cute little girl than having her ripped apart in a doctor's office before she was born. :up:

[Tron5000]

I have Tron5000 on ignore so can someone tell me if the guy is posting links to counter my links, or if he's just trying to shout over everyone?

The links I provide show that abstinance only education doesn't slow down AIDs and doesn't lower the numbers of teenage pregnancies. They also show that applied correctly sex education can drop the number of teenage pregnancies.

I'm sorry that the facts are so inconvenient for the moral brigade.

Why would you put someone on Ignore and then ask to be made privy to their postings? That's utterly ridiculous.

[Handsome Rob]

I have Tron5000 on ignore so can someone tell me if the guy is posting links to counter my links, or if he's just trying to shout over everyone?

The links I provide show that abstinance only education doesn't slow down AIDs and doesn't lower the numbers of teenage pregnancies. They also show that applied correctly sex education can drop the number of teenage pregnancies.

I'm sorry that the facts are so inconvenient for the moral brigade.

If you're curious, why have him on "ignore?" Or, was this a back door way to let him know that he's on "ignore?"

[Handsome Rob]

Why would you put someone on Ignore and then ask to be made privy to their postings? That's utterly ridiculous.

And Tron beats me to it.

[kainedamo]

Is Tron5000 saying right now that nobody gets pregnant or gets AIDs if they remain abstinant? If he is then he is entirely missing the point.

The argument is not whether abstinance works (it didn't work for Jesus' mom), the real argument is whether abstinance EDUCATION works. And It. Does. Not.

It didn't work for Bristol Palin, and it doesn't work for thousands of other teenagers, and it doesn't work for the millions of AIDs sufferers in Africa.

It's time to grow up about sex education and give people the knowledge they need.

[Tron5000]

Did you use condoms during those formidable years?

Yes I did, knowing full well that it would help prevent pregnancy, but also knowing full well that they were not 100% effective. So from the age of 16 (when I began having sex), I always realized that my actions may result in my impregnating someone. And I was always willing to accept that, as I have always believed that all life is precious. Having been the result of a teenage sexual relationship, I knew that my parents could have made the "easy" decision and gotten rid of me. I've always been aware of the character and sacrifice that it took for them not to take that alternative, and I would always be there for my own children, planned or otherwise.

[Tron5000]

If you're curious, why have him on "ignore?" Or, was this a back door way to let him know that he's on "ignore?"

Yeah, the only person on my Ignore list is Mr. Sparkle, and I don't ask others to tell me what he's saying. In fact, I just skip right over the responses to him, just so I can avoid his postings.

It wouldn't make much sense for me to Ignore someone, then ask others what he's saying. That's kinda creepy.

[Hobodeluxe]

hey did you guys hear Palin has lawyered up for the Troopergate investigation?
wow I think this is the first time anyone has ever chosen a running mate who was under an active investigation. John was right when he said it was historic.

and just think the conservatives were up in arms a few weeks ago crying about Obama's team not "vetting the vetters"

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2819590386_c3fa2c2845_o.jpg

[ShadowBoxing]

Oh, more great news, apparently last year she applied for a passport for the first time.

[Überlibran]

What he said, at the time (when he wasn't up for the presidency, mind you), is:

"What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that."

"One more burden." A child. The most precious thing on Earth. He didn't want to "burden" a woman with a child that she did not want.Oh good lord, he's saying women should have a choice. Period.

[kainedamo]

Oh, more great news, apparently last year she applied for a passport for the first time.

But... next to Russia!! Palin's a GREAT vp pick!! :huh:

[kainedamo]

Oh good lord, he's saying women should have a choice. Period.

And what Tron5000 is saying is it should be up to the government. Loony tunes.

[Überlibran]

You know the more I think about it, I can't believe McCain vetted this person at all. I think this was an impulsive choice calculated to be a 'game-changer' after seeing the great speech Obama gave Thursday night. I can't imagine how more reckless McCain could have been in his 'hail-mary pass' of a vp choice.

[The Senator]

:slaps head:

kaine, if you want to know what Tron has to say don't put him on ignore. I never, ever want to know what people I put on ignore have to say. Ever.

(and since 2/3 of my ignore list has been banned... it's probably a good idea to never cross that line with me :cwink:)

[The Senator]

Double post.

[Tron5000]

You know the more I think about it, I can't believe McCain vetted this person at all. I think this was an impulsive choice calculated to be a 'game-changer' after seeing the great speech Obama gave Thursday night. I can't imagine how more reckless McCain could have been in his 'hail-mary pass' of a vp choice.

Read. Enjoy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002377_pf.html

[souvlaki]

Someone from the McCain campaign just said on CNN a few minutes ago that Sarah Palak was a hero, and that people should leave her alone.

John King's response: "A hero? Really?"

This election is going to be interesting.

[souvlaki]

Edit: Double post

[Gilpesh]

John King's response: "A hero? Really?"

That's the exact same response I had to just reading that comment about her being a 'hero'.

[souvlaki]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

[kainedamo]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

That doesn't seem so bad.

[Tron5000]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

OMG! She likes God! Alert the media!

[Überlibran]

Read. Enjoy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002377_pf.html Well, it looks like they weren't quite done, Andrea Mitchell says to GOP has lawyers in AK for 'more thorough vetting':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJOBMaFIRk

FBI didn't do background check, even though the McCain campaign said they did:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/palin_and_the_fbi_background_c.php

[The Senator]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

The Pledge of Allegiance wasn't around when the Founding Fathers were....

[souvlaki]

OMG! She likes God! Alert the media!

Do you know when the pledge was written? That's a lack of common historical knowledge.

[souvlaki]

And for that matter, "under God" was added in the 50's.

[kainedamo]

Do you know when the pledge was written? That's a lack of common historical knowledge.

Oh, I see.

Well, I didn't know :huh:

But then, I'm not american.

[Tron5000]

Do you know when the pledge was written? That's a lack of common historical knowledge.

I know when it was written. I thought the post was made to demean her belief in God, not in her lack of knowledge as to when the Pledge was written. Sorry if I misinterpreted the message.

[The Senator]

Oh, more great news, apparently last year she applied for a passport for the first time.

I guess Russia is so close to Alaska that she doesn't need a passport, she can just walk next door and have a chat with good ole Vladimir. Heck, they're probably neighbors and all that.

[souvlaki]

Oh, I see.

Well, I didn't know :huh:

But then, I'm not american.

It was written in the in 1891, and the "under God" part was added in the early 50's. I guess it's one of those trivial historical facts that most people learn in middle school, but it's one of those things you'd expect a politician to know. Especially a potential Vice President.

[Tron5000]

Well, it looks like they weren't quite done, Andrea Mitchell says to GOP has lawyers in AK for 'more thorough vetting':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJOBMaFIRk

FBI didn't do background check, even though the McCain campaign said they did:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/palin_and_the_fbi_background_c.php

"Palin might already have a clearance that relates to her duties as governor. But the FBI can't speak to that, and in any event, those investigations wouldn't be accessible to the McCain campaign anyway."

Therefore, she could request a background check, and could pass that information to the McCain camp, even if they are not the ones that requested it.

[Mikelus]

At least her daughter doesn't believe in abstinence. :hehe:

[ShadowBoxing]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.
Heh Heh. Outstanding:hehe:

[Tron5000]

Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race:

Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Perhaps she was describing the use of "God" by our Founding Fathers (which was often), as well as defending the Pledge. Never did she state that the two were one in the same.

[Tron5000]

And you know, I'd rather have as president someone who was unclear as to when the Pledge was written than one who is unclear as to how many states comprise this country. "57 states"? Come on, now.

[Ocramed]

Once again:

ONLY TWO PREREQUISITES TO BECOME PRESIDENT:

1) AGE.
2) PLACE OF BIRTH.

Ergo, all the candidates are qualified to be president...or vice-president.

Instead of voting against someone, vote FOR someone. You vote for someone that is in line with your personal political philosophy. That's it. And quite frankly, none of the candidates would have gotten to this point without that special quality without political clout, and you can't just simply "buy" those traits.

[StrainedEyes]

And you know, I'd rather have as president someone who was unclear as to when the Pledge was written than one who is unclear as to how many states comprise this country. "57 states"? Come on, now.

Well, Palin would be the VP. Your Presidential pick wants to give "bottled hot water to dehydrated babies".

[Tron5000]

Well, Palin would be the VP. Your Presidential pick wants to give "bottled hot water to dehydrated babies".

And your presidential pick wants to deny life-saving treatment for the survivors of botched abortions.

[souvlaki]

Perhaps she was describing the use of "God" by our Founding Fathers (which was often), as well as defending the Pledge. Never did she state that the two were one in the same.

The second sentence implies otherwise. If she meant otherwise she worded it really badly.

[StrainedEyes]

And your presidential pick wants to deny life-saving treatment for the survivors of botched abortions.

He specifically said that the state already had laws providing such care.

[Tron5000]

Once again:

ONLY TWO PREREQUISITES TO BECOME PRESIDENT:

1) AGE.
2) PLACE OF BIRTH.

Ergo, all the candidates are qualified to be president...or vice-president.

Instead of voting against someone, vote FOR someone. You vote for someone that is in line with your personal political philosophy. That's it. And quite frankly, none of the candidates would have gotten to this point without that special quality without political clout, and you can't just simply "buy" those traits.




Don't forget, you have to live in the US for a certain period of time. You can't be born here on a Tuesday, move out of country on Wednesday, come back on on your 35th birthday and run for Pres.

[Tron5000]

The second sentence implies otherwise. If she meant otherwise she worded it really badly.

Well, Obama certainly words a lot of things badly, considering the circles he has to run around himself to correct his own statements.

[Gilpesh]

And your presidential pick wants to deny life-saving treatment for the survivors of botched abortions.

Stop saying that when you have no clue about the actual bill he voted against. Just the one note that you keep repeating. :whatever:

[StrainedEyes]

Well, Obama certainly words a lot of things badly, considering the circles he has to run around himself to correct his own statements.

As you ignore McCain's constant pauses, backtracks, confusing statements, and use of the term "I don't know anything about that, I'll look into it and get back to you tomorrow."

[Excel]

Stop saying that when you have no clue about the actual bill he voted against. Just the one note that you keep repeating. :whatever:

I know :hehe:

[Überlibran]

Well, Obama certainly words a lot of things badly, considering the circles he has to run around himself to correct his own statements.LOL nice deflection. :woot:

[souvlaki]

And you know, I'd rather have as president someone who was unclear as to when the Pledge was written than one who is unclear as to how many states comprise this country. "57 states"? Come on, now.

Now that is just ignorant there. You know perfectly well that Obama knows how many states there are in this country. If you honestly think that was anything other than him being tired... he studied constitutional law and went to Harvard.

[metr0man]

This won't hurt her with family values christian conservatives.

Pre-marital sex is one of those things that like 80% of religious people are complete hypocrites about.

[Tron5000]

Stop saying that when you have no clue about the actual bill he voted against. Just the one note that you keep repeating. :whatever:

See, here's the difference between you and me. You believe everything Obama says. I think he's a damn liar. So I know the bill he voted against, and I know his explanations for doing so. I just don't believe him.

[kainedamo]

Now that is just ignorant there. You know perfectly well that Obama knows how many states there are in this country. If you honestly think that was anything other than him being tired... he studied constitutional law and went to Harvard.

Only stupid people get Magna Cum Laude. (whatever that even means anyway, and I think I spelt it wrong).

So I'm gonna go to bed soon.

When I check this tomorrow, is there gonna be a new Sarah Palin scandal?

[StrainedEyes]

This won't hurt her with family values christian conservatives.

Pre-marital sex is one of those things that like 80% of religious people are complete hypocrites about.

This one issue won't hurt her, but if all these little things keep coming out and piling up on top of her, it could be a problem.

[StrainedEyes]

See, here's the difference between you and me. You believe everything Obama says. I think he's a damn liar. So I know the bill he voted against, and I know his explanations for doing so. I just don't believe him.

Do you believe everything that McCain says?

[Marx]

This won't hurt her with family values christian conservatives.

Pre-marital sex is one of those things that like 80% of religious people are complete hypocrites about.

All I have to say is that if this were happening to a Democratic candidate, the Religious Right and family values groups would come down on them with the fire of a thousand suns!

[UA-Archangel]

I got respect for her for keeping the baby, but I cant help but think of as dumb. How does she not on the pill, or did he not wear a condom, or any of that stuff? If she was stupid enough to let him use the pull out when your daughter of a governor, than what else am I supposed to think of her? For real. That kind of stuff always starts with somebodys parent; if Obamas daughter get knocked up when shes 17, Ill look down on him too.

More often than not, when a girl gets pregnant, it's deliberate on her part.

[Gilpesh]

See, here's the difference between you and me. You believe everything Obama says. I think he's a damn liar. So I know the bill he voted against, and I know his explanations for doing so. I just don't believe him.

Well, your opinion is invalid now. I don't.


If you actually know the bill he voted against... post the ENTIRE THING. Not just your one sentence to make him look like he hates babies. And if you don't and just lie about me again, I'm going to have to find that emoticon Jman has where the eyes roll out of the head.

[StrainedEyes]

More often than not, when a girl gets pregnant, it's deliberate on her part.

That's quite a statement.

[Tron5000]

This one issue won't hurt her, but if all these little things keep coming out and piling up on top of her, it could be a problem.

Little things, like membership in a racist church for 20 years, a 15-year relationship with a known and unrepentant domestic terrorist, counting as a mentor a member of the Communist Party of the USA, having a wife who has only recently ever been proud of her country, getting a shady land deal because your house was subsidized by a convicted felon, considering the white preacher of an anti-white church as a friend...Those types of "little things"?

[BMM]

This won't hurt her with family values christian conservatives.

Pre-marital sex is one of those things that like 80% of religious people are complete hypocrites about.

Haha. I've been thinking the same thing.

[Tron5000]

Do you believe everything that McCain says?

I can't off the top of my head recall an instance where he has out-and-out lied to us. However, I can think of several such instances where Obama has.

[ShadowBoxing]

This one issue won't hurt her, but if all these little things keep coming out and piling up on top of her, it could be a problem.
They are saying between this and Troopergate her supporters are having trouble trusting her. Not that they see her actions as bad, but the actions themselves seem to indicate she may not have been properly vetted. They are making people think she is full of surprises, and in politics, no one likes surprises.

[jaguarr]

More often than not, when a girl gets pregnant, it's deliberate on her part.

:dry:

jag

[StrainedEyes]

The problem is trust. If all these questions keep coming up about her, people will be more confused then trusting.

[Tron5000]

This won't hurt her with family values christian conservatives.

Pre-marital sex is one of those things that like 80% of religious people are complete hypocrites about.

You have stats that show that 80% of those who consider themselves as religious engage in premarital sex? Or did you pull that number out of thin air?

And would that be akin to how Dems talk and talk about how they want to help the "less fortunate," yet year after year, Republicans donate more to charitable causes than do Dems?

[UA-Archangel]

A teenager does something stupid. Its hardly grounds to say her mother isn't fit to be VP (yet in our society, it will be enough, in my opinion)

That depends on how it is handled. The best way to handle such situations is to be upfront and forthright.

If, for example and very soon, she held a press conference and said that though her daughter made a mistake, the family would stick together and be totally involved, I don't think it would hurt her campaign very much.

It's also a different world than it used to be, we've had twenty years of teens getting pregnant and I think people are more used to that than them not getting pregnant.

[ShadowBoxing]

I can't off the top of my head recall an instance where he has out-and-out lied to us. However, I can think of several such instances where Obama has.You need to try the search on your internet browser. Hell I typed in "McCain lied" and got 3 million results.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS292&=&q=McCain+lied&btnG=Google+Search

[ShadowBoxing]

You have stats that show that 80% of those who consider themselves as religious engage in premarital sex? Or did you pull that number out of thin air?

I went to an extremely conservative college, with a evangelical population that would rival the RNC. Those girls put out big time.

[Excel]

More often than not, when a girl gets pregnant, it's deliberate on her part.

That is true. What you trying to say? She did this on purpose?

[UA-Archangel]

It was the 80s. We all did crazy things. :cwink:

I was 12 years old in 1980 and I have a confession to make...




I once had some Baby Duck wine.

[StrainedEyes]

You need to try the search on your internet browser. Hell I typed in "McCain lied" and got 3 million results.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS292&=&q=McCain+lied&btnG=Google+Search

Are you implying that someone who so outwardly hates Obama, would ignore the well documented problems that McCain has in order to tear Obama down? That's preposterous.

[Excel]

I went to an extremely conservative college, with a evangelical population that would rival the RNC. Those girls put out big time.

Heh, whered you go?

[Tron5000]

I went to an extremely conservative college, with a evangelical population that would rival the RNC. Those girls put out big time.

So Conservatives are ****s? Is that what you're saying?

[Excel]

Conservative women are actually easier to get with; those liberal chicks always wants to talk and **** first, and then ask if you know their name...

[ShadowBoxing]

So Conservatives are ****s? Is that what you're saying?You make it sound like a bad thing? I enjoyed it a lot.

[UA-Archangel]

OK. If my fiancee does not have AIDS, and I don't have AIDS, then how will one of us get AIDS through sexual intercourse if we are monogamous? How in the world would that possibly happen?

Mosquitos.

[kainedamo]

So Conservatives are ****s? Is that what you're saying?

What is with your emotionally charged posts, man? I get the sense of somebody with a big red vein on their forhead everytime someone quotes you.

Anyway, it's more like conservatives are hypocrites. Well, the ones that push their morality anyway. Always ready to yell shame at their opponents for moral failings but always brushing their own under the carpet.

[Thinkton]

Governor Sarah Palin made history on Dec. 4, 2006, when she took office. As the 11th governor of Alaska, she is the first woman to hold the office.

Since taking office, her top priorities have been resource development, education and workforce development, public health and safety, and transportation and infrastructure development.

During her first legislative session, Governor Palin’s administration passed two major pieces of legislation – an overhaul of the state’s ethics laws and a competitive process to construct a gas pipeline.

Governor Palin is chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, a multi-state government agency that promotes the conservation and efficient recovery of domestic oil and natural gas resources while protecting health, safety and the environment. She was recently named chair of the National Governors Association (NGA) Natural Resources Committee, which is charged with pursuing legislation to ensure state needs are considered as federal policy is formulated in the areas of agriculture, energy, environmental protection and natural resource management. Prior to being named to this position, she served as co-chair of this committee.

Prior to her election as governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla. During her tenure, she reduced property tax levels while increasing services and made Wasilla a business friendly environment, drawing in new industry.

She has served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska's most valuable non-renewable resources: oil and gas. She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska's
communities.

Palin is a lifetime member of the NRA and enjoys hunting, fishing, Alaska history, and all that Alaska's great outdoors has to offer.

[Tron5000]

All right, guys. I would love to continue this, but I have to go see my sister-in-law and nephew, who I haven't seen in 5 months. But I'll be back later, so please save any insults you have for me until about 11:00 Eastern.

And Kaine, I thought you had me on Ignore. Couldn't stand the itch any longer, huh? It's OK. I understand.

[kainedamo]

Didn't Palin increase the debt/deficit of Wasilla?

[Tron5000]

Governor Sarah Palin made history on Dec. 4, 2006, when she took office. As the 11th governor of Alaska, she is the first woman to hold the office.

Since taking office, her top priorities have been resource development, education and workforce development, public health and safety, and transportation and infrastructure development.

During her first legislative session, Governor Palin’s administration passed two major pieces of legislation – an overhaul of the state’s ethics laws and a competitive process to construct a gas pipeline.

Governor Palin is chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, a multi-state government agency that promotes the conservation and efficient recovery of domestic oil and natural gas resources while protecting health, safety and the environment. She was recently named chair of the National Governors Association (NGA) Natural Resources Committee, which is charged with pursuing legislation to ensure state needs are considered as federal policy is formulated in the areas of agriculture, energy, environmental protection and natural resource management. Prior to being named to this position, she served as co-chair of this committee.

Prior to her election as governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla. During her tenure, she reduced property tax levels while increasing services and made Wasilla a business friendly environment, drawing in new industry.

She has served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska's most valuable non-renewable resources: oil and gas. She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska's
communities.

Palin is a lifetime member of the NRA and enjoys hunting, fishing, Alaska history, and all that Alaska's great outdoors has to offer.

I like you. Stick around for a while.

[Gilpesh]

Didn't Palin increase the debt/deficit of Wasilla?

That she did.

[UA-Archangel]

That is true. What you trying to say? She did this on purpose?

I have no idea what her motivations are personally.

However, I do know that young women who get pregnant do so purposefully for various reasons:

1. To hopefully keep a guy.
2. So that she'd have somebody to love, because she doesn't feel loved.

and others.

It's often not an accident.

[kainedamo]

That she did.

Then why the hell are people touting her 'executive' experience? :whatever:

[Marx]

Didn't Palin increase the debt/deficit of Wasilla?

That she did.

The debt is running around $3000 per person, last I heard.

[souvlaki]

Didn't Palin increase the debt/deficit of Wasilla?

Yeah, I remember hearing that as well...

[kainedamo]

I have no idea what her motivations are personally.

However, I do know that young women who get pregnant do so purposefully for various reasons:

1. To hopefully keep a guy.
2. So that she'd have somebody to love, because she doesn't feel loved.

and others.

It's often not an accident.

It's often not an accident...

What?

Do you know how many unwanted pregnancies there are a year?

Do you know how many abortions there are?

Man, it's often quite accidental. Mostly, the only time people try for a baby are when they are in a long term relationship and they are adults.

[kainedamo]

The debt is running around $3000 per person, last I heard.

Yeah Palin is a god-damn awful pick. She's undefendable.

[Überlibran]

I can't off the top of my head recall an instance where he has out-and-out lied to us. However, I can think of several such instances where Obama has.
Here let me help you. One of his hugest lies - he stated he supported the MLK holiday:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/02/mccain-lies-about-his-support-for-mlk-jr-day-in-arizona/

McCain lies about his statement over his knowledge of the US economyDDJJJyEUyrw

[UA-Archangel]

Didn't Palin increase the debt/deficit of Wasilla?

Sometimes it's necessary for a community to go into debt to afford infrastructure that it couldn't simply afford through taxation.

My city, for example, borrowed $400 million to get it's LRT online. It would have taken 50 years to build up the savings if they had tried saving for it.

[kainedamo]

Sometimes it's necessary for a community to go into debt to afford infrastructure that it couldn't simply afford through taxation.

My city, for example, borrowed $400 million to get it's LRT online. It would have taken 50 years to build up the savings if they had tried saving for it.

She's supposed to be a fiscal conservative.

[UA-Archangel]

It's often not an accident...

What?

Do you know how many unwanted pregnancies there are a year?

Do you know how many abortions there are?

Man, it's often quite accidental. Mostly, the only time people try for a baby are when they are in a long term relationship and they are adults.

You obviously haven't seen Maury...

You'd be surprised how often it's done purposefully on some level.

[Gilpesh]

Sometimes it's necessary for a community to go into debt to afford infrastructure that it couldn't simply afford through taxation.

My city, for example, borrowed $400 million to get it's LRT online. It would have taken 50 years to build up the savings if they had tried saving for it.

She's supposedly a fiscal conservative...


EDIT: She's supposed to be a fiscal conservative.

Damn you Kaine!

[kainedamo]

You obviously haven't seen Maury...

You'd be surprised how often it's done purposefully on some level.

Sometimes, not most of the time.

[UA-Archangel]

She's supposed to be a fiscal conservative.

It's the reasons for going into debt that count. I'd want to know why the community borrowed the money before deciding if it was a bad decision.

Did they build a hospital with the money, or did they spend it on the largest party in the history of Wasilla?

And it's not fiscally inappropriate to go into debt, if the benefits of the debt outweigh the costs.

As I previously stated my city wouldn't have been able to afford its LRT had it decided to save up for it.

[UA-Archangel]

Sometimes, not most of the time.

More than you think, I can guarentee that.

[kainedamo]

More than you think, I can guarentee that.

I don't think so, not while the stats of unwanted pregnancies and abortions are so high.

[UA-Archangel]

I don't think so, not while the stats of unwanted pregnancies and abortions are so high.

Let's do a logic....

Do you really think that a lot of young women are giving birth, because they don't know better?

If pregnancies were low, one could argue that most of them were probably accidents, but when they are high, it's obviously something to be desired (by them).

[The Senator]

Sara Palin did increase the debt in Wasilla. Every citizen is now $3,000 in debt, apparently.

[UA-Archangel]

Sara Palin did increase the debt in Wasilla. Every citizen is now $3,000 in debt, apparently.

As I said, that may not really matter in context.

[Marx]

As I said, that may not really matter in context.

Would it matter to you if you had $3000 hanging over your head?

[Gilpesh]

As I said, that may not really matter in context.

Well the context is though... she left it with that debt. Left it. Left it.

[ShadowBoxing]

There are some rumors floating around that she was a little loose during the Miss Wasilla pageant with the judges...if you know what I'm saying.

[UA-Archangel]

Would it matter to you if you had $3000 hanging over your head?

If they had built a hospital with the money, I'd gladly be $3,000 in debt to have it.

If they had held a party with the money, I'd be pissed.

It depends on what they did with the money. Since her support is very high up there, she must have done something with it that most residents supported.

[UA-Archangel]

Well the context is though... she left it with that debt. Left it. Left it.

Um so, I assume that future councils can work it down.

It's not the first community to take out a thirty year bond to pay down its debt.

[Gilpesh]

Um so, I assume that future councils can work it down.

It's not the first community to take out a thirty year bond to pay down its debt.

Well, why would you risk more debt when Bush already helped the nation along enough?

[UA-Archangel]

Well, why would you risk more debt when Bush already helped the nation along enough?

So you're saying that a town shouldn't build infrastructure until the feds have paid down their obligation?

Are you going to wait to get an education or buy a house until that happens as well?

[Gilpesh]

So you're saying that a town shouldn't build infrastructure until the feds have paid down their obligation?

Are you going to wait to get an education or buy a house until that happens as well?

No... I'm just wondering why after one 'fiscal conservative' another 'fiscal conservative' is necessary.

[Marx]

There are some rumors floating around that she was a little loose during the Miss Wasilla pageant with the judges...if you know what I'm saying.

This just never ends...does it?

[hippie_hunter]

So you're saying that a town shouldn't build infrastructure until the feds have paid down their obligation?

Are you going to wait to get an education or buy a house until that happens as well?

My god...the common sense in this post is astounding.

It's like more people are trying to find nit-picky things to ***** about her instead of actual genuine things to ***** such as her views and short time in office as governor of Alaska.

[jaguarr]

All I can manage to find on this $20-30 Million dollar debt she left Wasilla with was that she said it was necessary for "improvements", but no indication of what that actually means. According to some of the Wasilla blogs and such that I've been reading, Palin's claim to fame in that town in her time as Mayor was to bring a lot of big box retailers (Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, etc.) into town to set up shop. I'm wondering if some of that debt went into financing some of that big business expansion, and I'm sure that will shake out as people look into her record. A shame to think that a fiscal conservative would put a town that deep in debt so that big corporations could have stores there to expand their capital, if that were to be the case.

jag

[Gilpesh]

My god...the common sense in this post is astounding.

It's like more people are trying to find nit-picky things to ***** about her instead of actual genuine things to ***** such as her views and short time in office as governor of Alaska.

Oh I try... but b***hing about how she's abstinence only and against birth control just gets Tron all riled up.

[Überlibran]

Jeebus, the hits keep on coming. Palin belonged to the AIP (Alaskan Independence Party) a political party whose primary goal is to have Alaska secede from the USA and become a soverign nation. I knew she was far-right, but I didn't realize she was this much on the fringe, at least at one point.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

[UA-Archangel]

No... I'm just wondering why after one 'fiscal conservative' another 'fiscal conservative' is necessary.

Until you can tell me what was done with the money, we both have no way of knowing whether it was a good decision or not.

Telling me she left Wasilla in debt without telling me why doesn't mean very much. It becomes just another useless factoid as the kid with Down's syndrome when it was thought that it might not have been her's.

Sorry, considering that most communities in America have to approve a bond before it is given, it's even more useless.

[UA-Archangel]

All I can manage to find on this $20-30 Million dollar debt she left Wasilla with was that she said it was necessary for "improvements", but no indication of what that actually means. According to some of the Wasilla blogs and such that I've been reading, Palin's claim to fame in that town in her time as Mayor was to bring a lot of big box retailers (Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, etc.) into town to set up shop. I'm wondering if some of that debt went into financing some of that big business expansion, and I'm sure that will shake out as people look into her record. A shame to think that a fiscal conservative would put a town that deep in debt so that big corporations could have stores there to expand their capital, if that were to be the case.

jag

In many communities, a bond has to be approved of by the residents before it is given.

[Gilpesh]

Until you can tell me what was done with the money, we both have no way of knowing whether it was a good decision or not.

Telling me she left Wasilla in debt without telling me why doesn't mean very much. It becomes just another useless factoid as the kid with Down's syndrome when it was thought that it might not have been her's.

Sorry, considering that most communities in America have to approve a bond before it is given, it's even more useless.

I couldn't find anything... but Jag had said

All I can manage to find on this $20-30 Million dollar debt she left Wasilla with was that she said it was necessary for "improvements", but no indication of what that actually means. According to some of the Wasilla blogs and such that I've been reading, Palin's claim to fame in that town in her time as Mayor was to bring a lot of big box retailers (Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, etc.) into town to set up shop. I'm wondering if some of that debt went into financing some of that big business expansion, and I'm sure that will shake out as people look into her record. A shame to think that a fiscal conservative would put a town that deep in debt so that big corporations could have stores there to expand their capital, if that were to be the case.

jag

[jaguarr]

Jeebus, the hits keep on coming. Palin belonged to the AIC (Alaskan Independence Party) a political party whose primary goal is to have Alaska secede from the USA and become a soverign nation. I knew she was far-right, but I didn't realize she was this much on the fringe, at least at one point.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

Damn! That is an ugly, ugly mole on her political history, sorry to say. That one might bite her and McCain squarely in the ass more than anything else that's come up so far. They REALLY did not vet Palin.

jag

[UA-Archangel]

My god...the common sense in this post is astounding.

It's like more people are trying to find nit-picky things to ***** about her instead of actual genuine things to ***** such as her views and short time in office as governor of Alaska.

People tend to grasp at straws when there really isn't anything significant to latch onto.

[UA-Archangel]

I couldn't find anything... but Jag had said

So?

[jaguarr]

In many communities, a bond has to be approved of by the residents before it is given.

I've seen some pretty damn interesting things done with bonds where the real intent of the usage of the money raised from it is entirely different from what it's being touted as to the voting public, so that doesn't mean much to me.

jag

[Marx]

Jeebus, the hits keep on coming. Palin belonged to the AIC (Alaskan Independence Party) a political party whose primary goal is to have Alaska secede from the USA and become a soverign nation. I knew she was far-right, but I didn't realize she was this much on the fringe, at least at one point.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

She's the gift that keeps on giving. Did they just take her for face value and offer her the position? I mean, come on. :lmao:

[lazur]

All I can manage to find on this $20-30 Million dollar debt she left Wasilla with was that she said it was necessary for "improvements", but no indication of what that actually means. According to some of the Wasilla blogs and such that I've been reading, Palin's claim to fame in that town in her time as Mayor was to bring a lot of big box retailers (Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, etc.) into town to set up shop. I'm wondering if some of that debt went into financing some of that big business expansion, and I'm sure that will shake out as people look into her record. A shame to think that a fiscal conservative would put a town that deep in debt so that big corporations could have stores there to expand their capital, if that were to be the case.

jag

I'm not sure I see 'shame' in that at all. The corporations you're critiquing produce jobs and community wealth. They also provide more tax revenue, and when you're talking about a tiny town like Wasilla, a Wal-Mart or a Sears can do wonders for paying off fiscal debt.

I'd be more interested in seeing what succeeding Mayors of Wasilla will do/have done with the new streams of tax money... ie, did/will they pay off the debt I assume they promised their townsfolk they would while campaigning, and then did/will they use the additional income (now higher than ever thanks to Palin) to create a better city?

[UA-Archangel]

I've seen some pretty damn interesting things done with bonds where the real intent of the usage of the money raised from it is entirely different from what it's being touted as to the voting public, so that doesn't mean much to me.

jag

I don't think she'd have such a high approval rating as governor if she had misspent the money that she indebted her town to borrowing. Odds are, she spent it as intended.

We would have heard by now if the money had been badly spent.

[jaguarr]

I'm not sure I see 'shame' in that at all. The corporations you're critiquing produce jobs and community wealth. They also provide more tax revenue, and when you're talking about a tiny town like Wasilla, a Wal-Mart or a Sears can do wonders for paying off fiscal debt.

I'd be more interested in seeing what future Mayors of Wasilla will do with the new streams of tax money... ie, will they pay off the debt I assume they promised their townsfolk they would while campaigning, and then will they use the additional income (now higher than ever thanks to Palin) to create a better city?

Maybe. Depends on how the bond was touted to the voting public and whether it was all up front or not. Still, not the typical move of a fiscal conservative as it would have been a risky proposition, considering the sparse and spread out population of the area to support those stores. At any rate, pure speculation on my part as to what the money from the incurred debt was used for. The only explanation I've found anywhere that was from her was that it was for "improvements", but no details on what that means.

jag

[X Knight]

My god...the common sense in this post is astounding.

It's like more people are trying to find nit-picky things to ***** about her instead of actual genuine things to ***** such as her views and short time in office as governor of Alaska.

apparently.....sanity was checked at the door, too......:whatever:

the title of the thread should be retitled to "Let's dig up all kinds of dirt to make Sarah Palin look bad thread."

[UA-Archangel]

Maybe. Depends on how the bond was touted to the voting public and whether it was all up front or not. Still, not the typical move of a fiscal conservative as it would have been a risky proposition, considering the sparse and spread out population of the area to support those stores. At any rate, pure speculation on my part as to what the money from the incurred debt was used for. The only explanation I've found anywhere that was from her was that it was for "improvements", but no details on what that means.

jag

If the citizens aren't complaining, than it's a nonstory.

Wal-mart isn't going to go into an area that cannot support it. The town may be small, but if you were to take a census of everybody within 50 miles of that town, it's probably not insubstantial.

[Marx]

apparently.....sanity was checked at the door, too......:whatever:

the title of the thread should be retitled to "Let's dig up all kinds of dirt to make Sarah Palin look bad thread."

Sarah Palin's skeletons are being reported by the media. The posters here are only commenting on them. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Franklin Richards]

If her name was Hillary Clinton you'd be doing it.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Marx]

apparently.....sanity was checked at the door, too......:whatever:

the title of the thread should be retitled to "Let's dig up all kinds of dirt to make Sarah Palin look bad thread."

This will really tell me where you stand, because I'm curious. Do you have a problem with Obama's level of experience?

[redfirebird2008]

So she was part of a Secessionist party eh? Wonderful. This should completely sink her ship altogether. Wonder who they will get to replace her on the ticket. What an embarrassment for McCain. They did not vet this woman at all. There's reports that the McCain campaign rented out 8 rooms at a hotel in Wasila, Alaska over the weekend to begin the vetting process. And McCain claims he has good judgment. LOL.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

[jaguarr]

If the citizens aren't complaining, than it's a nonstory.

Mmmm....not all the citizens of Wasilla whose blogs I've poked through are fond of her, actually. Some are, but a lot of them aren't (of course, people in the blogosphere tend to just ***** about stuff, but whatchyagonnado?)

jag

[SuperT]

Everyone should really look at this:

UYYiw_y2qDI

What an idiot.

[Überlibran]

apparently.....sanity was checked at the door, too......:whatever:

the title of the thread should be retitled to "Let's dig up all kinds of dirt to make Sarah Palin look bad thread." Well if McCain can't be bothered to vet his VP nominee, my god, SOMEONE has to!

[lazur]

Maybe. Depends on how the bond was touted to the voting public and whether it was all up front or not. Still, not the typical move of a fiscal conservative as it would have been a risky proposition, considering the sparse and spread out population of the area to support those stores. At any rate, pure speculation on my part as to what the money from the incurred debt was used for. The only explanation I've found anywhere that was from her was that it was for "improvements", but no details on what that means.

jag

Wasilla is about 35 miles from Anchorage, where the nearest Wal-Mart was at the time. I don't think I consider it fiscally irresponsible to have generated growth and employment opportunities in a small town that bore the brunt of traffic coming out of Anchorage. Then to have the residents of not only your town, but towns out further than your town, going into Anchorage to spend their dollars.

In my opinion, it would have been fiscally irresponsible if she hadn't produced growth for Wasilla ...

[SentinelMind]

Yeah, that Alaskan Independence Party membership.........that's a little out there, although many Presidential and VP candidates have switched parties. That was 12 years ago, but that could be a serious campaign issue. If the Obama campaign position her as a female Pat Buchanan, that could seriously hurt.

[UA-Archangel]

Mmmm....not all the citizens of Wasilla whose blogs I've poked through are fond of her, actually. Some are, but a lot of them aren't (of course, people in the blogosphere tend to just ***** about stuff, but whatchyagonnado?)

jag

Here is one story about her as governor and how she spent the money

http://dwb.adn.com/front/v-printer/story/8976935p-8892390c.html

Budget a test for Palin

http://www.adn.com/widgets/pixel.gif
By SABRA AYRES
sayres@adn.com
http://www.adn.com/widgets/pixel.gif
(Published: June 14, 2007)

JUNEAU - As a candidate for governor last fall, Sarah Palin touted herself as a fiscal conservative seeking to run a leaner, more efficient government.

Her approach is facing its biggest test yet as the first-term Republican scrutinizes one of the largest capital budgets in state history.

In January, she proposed that legislators spend just $81 million in general state revenue, plus millions more in federal and other money, and itemized where that money should go.

Palin urged legislators to prepare for lower oil prices in the future by socking away $1.8 billion of today’s oil windfall.

Legislators had their own ideas.

When they were done in May, Palin’s 27-page spending plan had ballooned to 189 pages, and her $81 million now stands at $583 million. Federal and other money boosts the total price tag to $1.8 billion. Some of that bloating Palin concedes came from her administration, as it requested $176 million more to address the ailing state pension system, increased costs in education and rural infrastructure needs.

But atop that legislators placed a monument of goodies for their hometowns. Artificial turf football fields. A public memorial for a former Alaska tennis star. A passenger van for a nonprofit, wind power for electric companies, lunch tables and video cameras for schools, props for a youth theater group.

Rep. Kevin Meyer, R-Anchorage, co-chair of the House Finance Committee that helps write the budget, defended the arrangement that let each senator propose $1 million in projects and grants for his or her district, and each House member a half-million.

“There are a lot of projects I don’t necessarily agree with, but others felt were necessary.”

As for the overall size of the budget, Meyer acknowledged it “is big, but Alaska is a young state and growing, and we have a lot of infrastructure needs.”

As governor, Palin has the power to veto or reduce individual projects in the budget.

Palin now promises that some projects will have to go, a process she has said puts her in the position of looking like the bad guy after being handed a bloated state-funded projects list, she has said. She hasn’t said how deep her cuts will go.

Palin has set a deadline of June 30 for her office to slice the projects that are not to the benefit of the state or could be funded through other sources.

Needs vs. wants

“Given the long-term revenue picture of the state, the biggest concern is making sure that we are taking care of our needs and not our wants,” she said.

“Irritating legislators is not the primary policy criteria when we evaluate whether to veto a project.”

Meyer said lawmakers didn’t just spend; they saved too, although not as much as Palin initially requested.

The Legislature this year appropriated $1 billion into a public education fund, as well as $50 million into the Capital Budget Reserve account.
So far, the governor has said very little about projects she will veto, saying only that her office is still sifting through stacks of backup material requested from the project’s sponsors.

But several items in the proposed budget have drawn controversy, and some lawmakers indicated they could be the ones in jeopardy of being vetoed.

Public outcry has erupted over a $1.5 million grant to help finish the sports dome attached to the Change Point church in Anchorage. Office of Management and Budget Director Karen Rehfeld said her department has heard considerable amount of feedback both for and against state support for the indoor sports complex.

There has also been concern over $50,000 for the Gateway School in Anchorage, a non-profit school that hires only Christian teachers.

Rep. Les Gara, D-Anchorage, said the state should not fund schools that might only serve a specific denomination.

Gara pointed to a grant for $25,000 to Bingle Camp Ministries in Fairbanks, which serves needy children.

“I have no doubt that the camp does important and good work,” Gara said. “But the question is whether they are nondenominational or not.”

Horse trading

Palin has said she won’t play politics as usual and use her power to veto pet capital-budget projects to muscle lawmakers to vote for other bills she favors, a tactic past governors have used.

“That’s not how I operate,” she said.

Lawmakers say that by every indication, it appears Palin is sticking to her words.

“Honestly, this year, I haven’t seen as much horse trading as in years past,” Meyer said. “Her big issue was AGIA (the gas pipeline bill) and she got it. So I don’t know what she can leverage her veto pen for.”

The Alaska Gasline Inducement Act, or AGIA, creates a process for issuing a state license to a company that could build a North Slope natural gas pipeline.

Palin has also said has criticized how lawmakers excluded the public when writing the budget. The former Wasilla mayor said state government should operate in the same way as local municipalities, where budget proposals are debated in public forums.

“There needs to be an adult in the house,” she has said.

Sen. Bert Stedman, R-Sitka, disagreed. The budget for state-funded projects starts at the grass-roots level, when cities and constituents ask their elected representatives for funds for local needs, he said.
“State government’s structure is substantially different than in the cities and municipalities,” Stedman said. Stedman is the co-chair of the Senate Finance Committee, the panel that drafts the budget.

[jaguarr]

Here is one story about her as governor and how she spent the money

http://dwb.adn.com/front/v-printer/story/8976935p-8892390c.html

[/size][/font]

Wow. Big-ass bloated budget that far surpassed what she started at. Sounds just like Bush to me.

jag

[ShadowBoxing]

She's the gift that keeps on giving. Did they just take her for face value and offer her the position? I mean, come on. :lmao:This is awesome. She's a creationist, who supports succession from the United States, has several sex scandals in her family, a pregnant teenage daughter, supports shooting animals from helicopters and planes, supposedly was a minx in High School, has a political scandal that could land her in prison and denies global warming.

I can't wait until the internet contest to photoshop porn pictures of her finishes up. This is gonna be awesome:woot:

[Marx]

Everyone should really look at this:

UYYiw_y2qDI

What an idiot.

An idiot. And a hypocrit. People like Tucker Bounds make me sick. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon13.gif






(I'm just glad that Campbell Brown had the nerve to call him out on national tv. I have always liked her, and have a lot of respect for her as well. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif)

[X Knight]

This will really tell me where you stand, because I'm curious. Do you have a problem with Obama's level of experience?

yes.....I do have a problem with Obama's level of experience......:o

just as you have a problem with Palin's level of experience......so the feeling's mutual.......

[Gilpesh]

Wow. Big-ass bloated budget that far surpassed what she started at. Sounds just like Bush to me.

jag

There's also an ice rink that wasn't needed that she speared headed.... it was 19 million dollars. But I haven't found a good link for it.

[UA-Archangel]

Wow. Big-ass bloated budget that far surpassed what she started at. Sounds just like Bush to me.

jag

She's only responsible for a third of that and that still leaves about $1.3 billion being saved in their Alaska fund.

I don't think it's a bad budget.

Alaska is very fortunate that they can do that.

[Marx]

yes.....I do have a problem with Obama's level of experience......:o

just as you have a problem with Palin's level of experience......so the feeling's mutual.......

I have always said that I think Obama is inexperienced. I have been a harsh critic of both Barack Obama and John McCain. The question is...do you have a problem with Palin's experience? I am not an Obama die-hard. In fact, I just recently came around to supporting him. Recently as in, his convention speech.

[UA-Archangel]

I have always said that I think Obama is inexperienced. I have been a harsh critic of both Barack Obama and John McCain. The question is...do you have a problem with Palin's experience? I am not an Obama die-hard. In fact, I just recently came around to supporting him. Recently as in, his convention speech.

As Matt had said earlier, once she's been in office for a year she'll have the requisite experience to do a good job if she's inherently capable.

[ShadowBoxing]

As Matt had said earlier, once she's been in office for a year she'll have the requisite experience to do a good job if she's inherently capable.
That sounds like a huge gamble. Like one I'm not willing to risk on an executive position. What if it takes her more than a year? Or what if McCain croaks before then? At least with Barack I know that he and Biden have more collective experience than McCain/Palin, and unlike Palin, I don't consider half of his ticket to possibly be a crazy loose cannon.

[Marx]

As Matt had said earlier, once she's been in office for a year she'll have the requisite experience to do a good job if she's inherently capable.

A year from now is not day one. John McCain has long blasted Barack Obama for not being ready on day one and not having the experience. So what does he do? He picks a VP candidate with even less credential than the opponent he is attacking. He (along with every other supporter of the Palin choice) ovbiously holds her to a different standard than Obama.

[DBella]

Aren't there any Palin supporters here? The only one I've noticed is StorminNorman and I'd like to see him defend McCain's choice and his thought on the recent 'scandal' involving her teenage daughter (if he hasn't posted them already). Seems like she's so career-driven, she hardly has the time to check on her daughter.

[UA-Archangel]

Aren't there any Palin supporters here? The only one I've noticed is StorminNorman and I'd like to see him defend McCain's choice and his thought on the recent 'scandal' involving her teenage daughter (if he hasn't posted them already). Seems like she's so career-driven, she hardly has the time to check on her daughter.

I think the question your asking is a bit nonsequitar....This is the Hype, where all things liberal pass muster and no good thing can be a conservative thing.

There are many good parents who still have kids who screw around. I'm not going to pass judgement on this situation.

The fact that the kids don't seem strung out on drugs or have extensive criminal records tells me that they were raised reasonably well.

[UA-Archangel]

A year from now is not day one. John McCain has long blasted Barack Obama for not being ready on day one and not having the experience. So what does he do? He picks a VP candidate with even less credential than the opponent he is attacking. He (along with every other supporter of the Palin choice) ovbiously holds her to a different standard than Obama.

Odds are John McCain, if he should become president, will not kick the bucket a year from now and so everything should be fine.

[Marx]

Odds are John McCain, if he should become president, will not kick the bucket a year from now and so everything should be fine.

That's not the point, UA. Hypocrisy is the point.

[danoyse]

As Matt had said earlier, once she's been in office for a year she'll have the requisite experience to do a good job if she's inherently capable.

And what if she's not capable? We have a war going now. We could be attacked again tomorrow. There are currently two more hurricanes following Gustav into the Gulf Coast.

We risk the same thing with Obama, but what does it say for McCain whose strongest argument was about Obama's inexperience to pick a VP who has even less?

[UA-Archangel]

That's not the point, UA. Hypocrisy is the point.
The definition of hypocrisy is saying one thing, but doing another. Like Bill Clinton having portrayed himself as a good family man 16 years ago.

If a parent has taught his kids to do the right thing and lived themselves as rightly as possible, that's not hypocrisy.

Kids are responsible for the things they do.

[DBella]

I think the question your asking is a bit nonsequitar....This is the Hype, where all things liberal pass muster and no good thing can be a conservative thing.

There are many good parents who still have kids who screw around. I'm not going to pass judgement on this situation.

The fact that the kids don't seem strung out on drugs or have extensive criminal records tells me that they were raised reasonably well.
How do you think the conservative Christian voters are going to view this? Usually when kids screw up, people like to point the fingers at the parents.



Kids are responsible for the things they do.
I agree to a certain extent. I am all for personal responsibilities but when it comes to minors, parents have to take some of the blame, don't you think?

[UA-Archangel]

And what if she's not capable? We have a war going now. We could be attacked again tomorrow. There are currently two more hurricanes following Gustav into the Gulf Coast.

We risk the same thing with Obama, but what does it say for McCain whose strongest argument was about Obama's inexperience to pick a VP who has even less?

When one proves themselves capable of small things, they can be given the chance for bigger opportunities. She's proven herself a very capable governor. I see no reason to not give her a chance,

[Marx]

The definition of hypocrisy is saying one thing, but doing another. Like Bill Clinton having portrayed himself as a good family man 16 years ago.

If a parent has taught his kids to do the right thing and lived themselves as rightly as possible, that's not hypocrisy.

Kids are responsible for the things they do.

Please do not invoke Bill Clinton.

Do. Not. Go. There.

Hypocrisy is attacking someone for something (Obama on lack of experience,) and then picking someone (Palin) who has the same problem as the one you're attacking (lack of experience.)

[UA-Archangel]

How do you think the conservative Christian voters are going to view this? Usually when kids screw up, people like to point the fingers at the parents.

It's not 1984 anymore. There have been more than enough kids of conservative parents in the last 20 years to show that, despite ideals people can still fail.

I think, if the family can show that it's pulling together on her daughter's discretion, that most people will look at it as a family pulling together to get through a situation.

I really don't think this is going to affect her as much as some here want it to.

One thing about liberals I've learned is that, if you haven't done something, they tell you not to judge because you're not in that other person's shoes. If you have done something, they tell you not to judge, because you did the same thing.

[X Knight]

I have always said that I think Obama is inexperienced. I have been a harsh critic of both Barack Obama and John McCain. The question is...do you have a problem with Palin's experience? I am not an Obama die-hard. In fact, I just recently came around to supporting him. Recently as in, his convention speech.


well, for that, I tip my hat off to you. At least you are fair about that.

Here's my take on Palin's ( and Obama's ) experience. And, I'll try to be as reasonable and nonpartisan as possible:

Yes, I'll agree that, in terms of the # of years of experience, Palin has relatively little. So does Obama. Neither of them have had long standing careers in office like McCain or Biden.

So, when faced with candidates like that ( like Palin or Obama ), one must turn to the TYPE of experience and what he/she has accomplished during that time.

In Palin's case, she has actual EXECUTIVE experience, both as mayor and as governor. She's actually run something.....she's been in charge of a city and in charge of an entire state. And, she targeted corruption and cleaned house.

Obama has been a legislator for pretty much his entire political career. I don't really see what he has ACCOMPLISHED during his tenure.

So, when comparing two candidates with relatively "light" experience backgrounds, I will tend to favor the candidate who has had actual executive experience running something. For me, running a city/town or state ( or even a small or large business ), entails greater responsibility than being a legislator.

If Obama had been MAYOR of Chicago...where he fought against the corrupt political machine there ( even butting heads with his own party )....if Obama had been GOVERNOR of Illinois where he was in charge of the affairs of an entire state.....heck......if he had run his own small or large business......I would value that type of experience more and I might have a different opinion of him....

For me......Obama is just all talk, no action......Palin...otoh...strikes me as someone who doesn't just TALK....she DOES WHAT SHE SAYS SHE'S GOING TO DO.....she represents the fresh "outsider" that can clean up Washington and bring about reform and change.....she's kind of like my "Obama"......lol........at least that's my initial impression of her.........

But, as I said, that's just my initial impression of Palin. I am still eager to hear her RNC acceptance speech.....how she performs during the debate against Biden......and how she does on the campaign trail from now till the election......

I'm not interested in all this garbage, smear politics that's been floating around. Until I start hearing something CONCRETE that would cause me to change my opinion of Palin......I will be supporting the McCain/Palin ticket this fall, as I agree with that ticket on far more issues than I agree with the Obama/Biden ticket.....( for instance, I am a pro-choice conservative. I agree with Obama on that 1 issue.....but pretty much disagree with him on everything else. )

so....there you go......that was my fair, honest assessment of my views on Palin's and Obama's experience and why I feel the way that I do.....:woot:

[SentinelMind]

How do you think the conservative Christian voters are going to view this? Usually when kids screw up, people like to point the fingers at the parents.


I agree to a certain extent. I am all for personal responsibilities but when it comes to minors, parents have to take some of the blame, don't you think?

I think several conservative groups have already made statements praising the daughter for choosing to marry the father and to keep the child. The daughter is 17 and in a relationship with the father. It's my opinion this issue alone would not have much traction for more than a week.

However, all this other stuff coming out at the exact same time can build some traction, and the DailyKos crowd is doing the dirty work.

[UA-Archangel]

Please do not invoke Bill Clinton.

Do. Not. Go. There.

Hypocrisy is attacking someone for something (Obama on lack of experience,) and then picking someone (Palin) who has the same problem as the one you're attacking (lack of experience.)

I was simply giving the definition of hypocrisy and providing a still-relevant example.

I haven't attacked Obama on his lack of experience once. My position has always been that the quality of advisors count more here.

[X Knight]

Aren't there any Palin supporters here? The only one I've noticed is StorminNorman and I'd like to see him defend McCain's choice and his thought on the recent 'scandal' involving her teenage daughter (if he hasn't posted them already). Seems like she's so career-driven, she hardly has the time to check on her daughter.

I'm a McCain / Palin supporter, DBella. ( yes, I know, I'm one of the few here on the board......)

[Marx]

I appreciate your honesty Super-Bats. :yay:

[ShadowBoxing]

Report on Monogan
6UojMnCgqVA

[Hobodeluxe]

Looks like Palin will have to testify under oath and is now claiming executive privilege (http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=8802680) on the emails sought by the investigators.

No wonder she lawyered up.

[X Knight]

I appreciate your honesty Super-Bats. :yay:

Thank you. I appreciate your honesty, too, Marx. :yay:

[Handsome Rob]

How do you think the conservative Christian voters are going to view this? Usually when kids screw up, people like to point the fingers at the parents.


I agree to a certain extent. I am all for personal responsibilities but when it comes to minors, parents have to take some of the blame, don't you think?

I'm a conservative Christian voter. I was raised in a Christian home by two dedicated parents.

How I view this is that a girl did something that her parents thought was wrong (and maybe even she did, as well). As a result, she became pregnant. And, she's making the right decision by having the child.

It doesn't matter if you have high standards or practically none at all--you are still going to screw up, sometimes. Heck, I'm not perfect, so why would I demand it from anyone else? Frankly, I respect someone with high standards who messes up and then tries to make it right or do the right thing. Someone with low standards is going to be difficult to respect in the first place.

So, in short, I still ain't voting for Obama. :woot:

[jaguarr]

She's only responsible for a third of that and that still leaves about $1.3 billion being saved in their Alaska fund.

I don't think it's a bad budget.

Alaska is very fortunate that they can do that.

She's the Governor. Buck stops with her. She has final approval on the budget and let all that extra crap in there. If that's an example of her "executive experience" I am not impressed.

jag

[UA-Archangel]

She's the Governor. Buck stops with her. She has final approval on the budget and let all that extra crap in there. If that's an example of her "executive experience" I am not impressed.

jag

Alaska can afford that level of spending. If they were running deficits for no good reason, I'd agree with you. However, Alaska has a lot of oil money and most of it is still going into its fund, so using some to fund some necessary projects is not problematic.

I think taking care of a pension deficit before it grows huge is a very responsible action.

[jaguarr]

Looks like Palin will have to testify under oath and is now claiming executive privilege (http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=8802680) on the emails sought by the investigators.

No wonder she lawyered up.

Not looking good. Even worse, she copied her husband on a bunch of those emails. Also not good.

jag

[DBella]

It's not 1984 anymore. There have been more than enough kids of conservative parents in the last 20 years to show that, despite ideals people can still fail.

I think, if the family can show that it's pulling together on her daughter's discretion, that most people will look at it as a family pulling together to get through a situation.

I really don't think this is going to affect her as much as some here want it to.
I'd rather people criticize a candidate for his/her stand on issues rather than what goes on in their family or private lives. Unless what goes on in their private lives will have serious implications on the best interest of the nation.

One thing about liberals I've learned is that, if you haven't done something, they tell you not to judge because you're not in that other person's shoes. If you have done something, they tell you not to judge, because you did the same thing.


I think several conservative groups have already made statements praising the daughter for choosing to marry the father and to keep the child. The daughter is 17 and in a relationship with the father. It's my opinion this issue alone would not have much traction for more than a week.
How long have they been together, her daughter and the father of her child? I wonder if those conservative groups had praised Jamie Lynn Spears when she got pregnant out of the wedlock... but that's besides the point, I guess. Just wondering out lout.

However, all this other stuff coming out at the exact same time can build some traction, and the DailyKos crowd is doing the dirty work.
Politics is a dirty game and I doubt that'll change any time soon.

I'm a McCain / Palin supporter, DBella. ( yes, I know, I'm one of the few here on the board......)
It's good to see a variety of views here. I am always interested to see/read different perspective on things.

[StorminNorman]

Aren't there any Palin supporters here? The only one I've noticed is StorminNorman and I'd like to see him defend McCain's choice and his thought on the recent 'scandal' involving her teenage daughter (if he hasn't posted them already). Seems like she's so career-driven, she hardly has the time to check on her daughter.

I think McCain's choice was potentially brilliant - it shook up this election and took away a great deal of attention from Obama's wonderful speech. Her selection has given energy to the conservative base that McCain MUST have in order to have a chance in this election and she has a far greater chance than a Romney or a Pawlenty at grabbing independent, women and former Hillary voters. Do I think her being a woman will lock up that demographic? No, of course not - but I think her being a woman gives her a better chance than Romney or Pawlenty did.

Palin has already helped McCain's campaign - polls indicate that McCain's pick of Palin helped his ticket more than Obama's pick of Biden. The campaign has raised 10 Million dollars from Conservative pockets already as well. She gives energy to a campaign whose leader desperately needed it.

Now I did say POTENTIALLY brilliant for a reason. The key is her prime time moments. If she delivers a great speech and does well in the debate (which I truly believe she will) then I think this pick will give McCain the election. If she is fumbles, however, then she destroys McCain's campaign.

My thoughts on the "scandal" are very few - I couldn't care less and I really don't think its going to affect the campaign at all. In fact, I think it gives Palin a stage to win over women voters if she plays it right. The only people that are at risk to reject it are conservatives - the same base that her values and politics make her appeal greatly to. Limbaugh and Hannity and similar conservative figure heads are going praise her for her handling of the situation and I think that sort of influence will keep the negative impact non existent. If Palin had a D next to her name, those same voices would be destroying her - making a larger issue out of it and thus giving far greater potential to this being a real detriment.

Again - I love the pick because I love what she has done in Alaska. She seems like a leader who really does want to bring reform and a record indicating she knows how to do it. I disagree on several of her positions, but I disagree with Obama more and I would still support him if he had aine record of actually doing what he preached (changing politics, working across party lines, etc.) She gives me a reason to vote FOR a ticket this November, instead of voting against one.

[Marx]

Palin has already helped McCain's campaign - polls indicate that McCain's pick of Palin helped his ticket more than Obama's pick of Biden. The campaign has raised 10 Million dollars from Conservative pockets already as well. She gives energy to a campaign whose leader desperately needed it.

Polls also indicate that Obama is maintaining a six point lead over McCain nationally.

[UA-Archangel]

Polls also indicate that Obama is maintaining a six point lead over McCain nationally.

Some polls.
Other polls indicate McCain still has the lead.

[Franklin Richards]

Fun Fact today.

According to AAA

Most Expensive Gas
Alaska : $4.49

Cheapest Gas
Delaware : $3.46


Heh. VP Gas Wars!!!!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[StorminNorman]

Polls also indicate that Obama is maintaining a six point lead over McCain nationally.

Only if you look exclusively at Gallop.

I see your Gallop and raise you Zogby's that have McCain up by 2.

CNN, Rasmussen are both in the margin of error.

[bunk]

I bought gas for $3.45 in PA today.

[X Knight]

VP Gas Wars!!!!



That sounds like a Star Wars episode title!!! :wow: :boba:

[lazur]

How do you think the conservative Christian voters are going to view this? Usually when kids screw up, people like to point the fingers at the parents.


I agree to a certain extent. I am all for personal responsibilities but when it comes to minors, parents have to take some of the blame, don't you think?

I would argue that conservative Christian voters are going to forgive and forget. If we're really talking about Christians here, let's talk about Christians, eh?

As for personal responsibilities and parental responsibilities, take it from a single dad with a 16 year old daughter at home full-time, it's not possible to keep them on a leash 24 hours a day. The best we can do is stay communicative, talk about EVERYTHING, and instill strong values and decency within them. But no matter how responsible or effective the parent, ALL kids make stupid decisions. It's just that when they're teenagers, they can be life-altering.

Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's 13. Let's be realistic.

[redfirebird2008]

I think McCain's choice was potentially brilliant - it shook up this election and took away a great deal of attention from Obama's wonderful speech. Her selection has given energy to the conservative base that McCain MUST have in order to have a chance in this election and she has a far greater chance than a Romney or a Pawlenty at grabbing independent, women and former Hillary voters. Do I think her being a woman will lock up that demographic? No, of course not - but I think her being a woman gives her a better chance than Romney or Pawlenty did.

Palin has already helped McCain's campaign - polls indicate that McCain's pick of Palin helped his ticket more than Obama's pick of Biden. The campaign has raised 10 Million dollars from Conservative pockets already as well. She gives energy to a campaign whose leader desperately needed it.

Now I did say POTENTIALLY brilliant for a reason. The key is her prime time moments. If she delivers a great speech and does well in the debate (which I truly believe she will) then I think this pick will give McCain the election. If she is fumbles, however, then she destroys McCain's campaign.

My thoughts on the "scandal" are very few - I couldn't care less and I really don't think its going to affect the campaign at all. In fact, I think it gives Palin a stage to win over women voters if she plays it right. The only people that are at risk to reject it are conservatives - the same base that her values and politics make her appeal greatly to. Limbaugh and Hannity and similar conservative figure heads are going praise her for her handling of the situation and I think that sort of influence will keep the negative impact non existent. If Palin had a D next to her name, those same voices would be destroying her - making a larger issue out of it and thus giving far greater potential to this being a real detriment.

Again - I love the pick because I love what she has done in Alaska. She seems like a leader who really does want to bring reform and a record indicating she knows how to do it. I disagree on several of her positions, but I disagree with Obama more and I would still support him if he had aine record of actually doing what he preached (changing politics, working across party lines, etc.) She gives me a reason to vote FOR a ticket this November, instead of voting against one.

I think her membership in the AIP (secessionist political party in Alaska) is a far bigger deal than the hypocrisy of her on sex education/contraceptives while her daughter gets pregnant. Being part of a secessionist organization could completely sink her as a candidate.

[The Senator]

Polls = irrelevant until debates.

CBS has Obama up by 8, Gallup by 6... CNN by 1, Rasmussen 3... nothing which says McCain is in the lead right now, only within the margin of error...

The debates will probably help us see a clear winner... hopefully...

[Franklin Richards]

I would argue that conservative Christian voters are going to forgive and forget. If we're really talking about Christians here, let's talk about Christians, eh?

As for personal responsibilities and parental responsibilities, take it from a single dad with a 16 year old daughter at home full-time, it's not possible to keep them on a leash 24 hours a day. The best we can do is stay communicative, talk about EVERYTHING, and instill strong values and decency within them. But no matter how responsible or effective the parent, ALL kids make stupid decisions. It's just that when they're teenagers, they can be life-altering.

Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's 13. Let's be realistic.


So she should definately know how to put a condom on.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[danoyse]

I'd rather people criticize a candidate for his/her stand on issues rather than what goes on in their family or private lives. Unless what goes on in their private lives will have serious implications on the best interest of the nation.

That's really what the issue is here. It's not the fact that her daughter is pregnant. That's a personal matter. But it's the hypocracy that Sarah Palin was a supporter of abstinence-only education in schools. She brought that to the table when she accepted the nom as VP...but in the end it turns out that it didn't even work in her own home. And that's embarrasing for any campaign.


How long have they been together, her daughter and the father of her child? I wonder if those conservative groups had praised Jamie Lynn Spears when she got pregnant out of the wedlock... but that's besides the point, I guess. Just wondering out lout.

I was thinking that same thing too. I don't recall these conservative groups embracing Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy...they wanted her show pulled off the air.

[X Knight]

Polls = irrelevant until debates.



I always say.......Polls are meaningful....until they disagree with you.....then they become meaningless and irrelevant......lol....:woot:

[UA-Archangel]

So she should definately know how to put a condom on.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

And you should know to take your vitamins on a daily basis.

Do you?

[Franklin Richards]

I put polls in the same section of the paper as horoscopes.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

I think her membership in the AIP (secessionist political party in Alaska) is a far bigger deal than the hypocrisy of her on sex education/contraceptives while her daughter gets pregnant. Being part of a secessionist organization could completely sink her as a candidate.

If you can prove she was a member - its a valid point against her. Going off of Daily Kos rumors though is a foolish move.

[Franklin Richards]

And you should know to take your vitamins on a daily basis.

Do you?

Vitamin MJ all the way!

:up:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[redfirebird2008]

If you can prove she was a member - its a valid point against her. Going off of Daily Kos rumors though is a foolish move.

It's not Daily Kos dude. It's ABC News:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

[StorminNorman]

Polls = irrelevant until debates.

CBS has Obama up by 8, Gallup by 6... CNN by 1, Rasmussen 3... nothing which says McCain is in the lead right now, only within the margin of error...

The debates will probably help us see a clear winner... hopefully...

I agree that national polls are irrelevant until the debate - in fact I have stated that several times as you know - what I am interested in is the favorable/unfavorable polls.

[Marx]

Only if you look exclusively at Gallop.

I see your Gallop and raise you Zogby's that have McCain up by 2.

CNN, Rasmussen are both in the margin of error.

Well I see that you see my Gallop, and I acknowledge your raise of Zogby's that have McCain up by 2.

I concede that CNN and Rasmussen are both in the margin of error.

So in the veil of sport, I RE-RAISE you RealClearPolitic's that have Obama up by 4.5. :oldrazz:

[Marx]

I agree that national polls are irrelevant until the debate - in fact I have stated that several times as you know - what I am interested in is the favorable/unfavorable polls.

I don't rely on polling this far out either, but it doesn't mean that I cannot use them in debate. :cwink:

[StorminNorman]

Well I see that you see my Gallop, and I acknowledge your raise of Zogby's that have McCain up by 2.

I concede that CNN and Rasmussen are both in the margin of error.

So in the veil of sport, I RE-RAISE you RealClearPolitic's that have Obama up by 4.5. :oldrazz:

Obama just had his convention - he should be up. :cwink:

[StorminNorman]

I don't rely on polling this far out either, but it doesn't mean that I cannot use them in debate. :cwink:

LOL, and apparently neither do I :woot::up:

[UA-Archangel]

Vitamin MJ all the way!

:up:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Coors for me.

[StorminNorman]

It's not Daily Kos dude. It's ABC News:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

Lets see some actual proof and something that indicates what her opinions are.

If this is true, then I would place it in the same area as Obama being in a racist church for 20 years.

[Franklin Richards]

Mmmm. The Banquet Beer.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[StorminNorman]

Coors for me.
Your taste in beer does not live up to your taste in politics :oldrazz:

If you want to taste liquid heaven - look up a little brew called Shock Top.

[SuperT]

No one posted that the McCain campaign has now sent a "Communications" team to Palin's home state?!

McCain communications team sent to Alaska
Posted: 08:30 PM ET

From CNN Correspondent Dana Bash

(CNN) – A senior adviser to John McCain's campaign confirms that they have dispatched a team of 12 people to presumptive VP nominee Sarah Palin's home state of Alaska.

The adviser insists the group is a communications "jump" team that would have gone to any nominee's hometown, and denies reports that the team is now going to further vet Palin.

This is just too freakin crazy! lol

[lazur]

So she should definately know how to put a condom on.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Exactly. Mom can't be over her shoulder (or his, shall I say), saying, "Here, honey, make sure he puts this on!"

[Marx]

Your taste in beer does not live up to your taste in politics :oldrazz:

If you want to taste liquid heaven - look up a little brew called Shock Top.

I'm not a beer drinker... http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[Franklin Richards]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/coldone.jpg

This is the beer LBJ would drink. That makes this post political, right?

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[StorminNorman]

No one posted that the McCain campaign has now sent a "Communications" team to Palin's home state?!



This is just too freakin crazy! lol

...I don't understand whats odd here.

I'm not a beer drinker... http://forums.superherohype.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

:csad: Wine?

[danoyse]

No one posted that the McCain campaign has now sent a "Communications" team to Palin's home state?!



This is just too freakin crazy! lol

I saw it on ABC's World News tonight. Charlie Gibson questioned the political correspondent about how that makes it looks like they weren't prepared to deal with the whole Palin controversy.

[Marx]

:csad: Wine?

I never said anything about that or the harder stuff. :oldrazz:http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[StorminNorman]

I never said anything about that or the harder stuff. :oldrazz:http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

I can live with that :up:

[danoyse]

Lets see some actual proof and something that indicates what her opinions are.

If this is true, then I would place it in the same area as Obama being in a racist church for 20 years.

Or that the Bush administration associated itself with a minister who believed 9/11 was our punishment brought on by gays, feminists and abortionists. :cwink:

[StorminNorman]

Or that the Bush administration associated itself with a minister who believed 9/11 was our punishment brought on by gays, feminists and abortionists. :cwink:

I am actually most offended by that association of the three in all honesty.

[redfirebird2008]

Or that the Bush administration associated itself with a minister who believed 9/11 was our punishment brought on by gays, feminists and abortionists. :cwink:

Ahem, McCain also associated himself with that guy. He actually sought out his endorsement just 6 years after calling him "an agent of intolerance." FLIP...FLOP.

[DBella]

I think McCain's choice was potentially brilliant - it shook up this election and took away a great deal of attention from Obama's wonderful speech. Her selection has given energy to the conservative base that McCain MUST have in order to have a chance in this election and she has a far greater chance than a Romney or a Pawlenty at grabbing independent, women and former Hillary voters. Do I think her being a woman will lock up that demographic? No, of course not - but I think her being a woman gives her a better chance than Romney or Pawlenty did.



Palin has already helped McCain's campaign - polls indicate that McCain's pick of Palin helped his ticket more than Obama's pick of Biden. The campaign has raised 10 Million dollars from Conservative pockets already as well. She gives energy to a campaign whose leader desperately needed it.



Now I did say POTENTIALLY brilliant for a reason. The key is her prime time moments. If she delivers a great speech and does well in the debate (which I truly believe she will) then I think this pick will give McCain the election. If she is fumbles, however, then she destroys McCain's campaign.



My thoughts on the "scandal" are very few - I couldn't care less and I really don't think its going to affect the campaign at all. In fact, I think it gives Palin a stage to win over women voters if she plays it right. The only people that are at risk to reject it are conservatives - the same base that her values and politics make her appeal greatly to. Limbaugh and Hannity and similar conservative figure heads are going praise her for her handling of the situation and I think that sort of influence will keep the negative impact non existent. If Palin had a D next to her name, those same voices would be destroying her - making a larger issue out of it and thus giving far greater potential to this being a real detriment.



Again - I love the pick because I love what she has done in Alaska. She seems like a leader who really does want to bring reform and a record indicating she knows how to do it. I disagree on several of her positions, but I disagree with Obama more and I would still support him if he had aine record of actually doing what he preached (changing politics, working across party lines, etc.) She gives me a reason to vote FOR a ticket this November, instead of voting against one.

Thanks for your well thought out answer, Norm.

Are you saying that one of the reasons she's picked by McCain was to court "women and former Hilary voters"? Do you think that a lot of women vote based on gender? If that is the case, I'd be scared.



I would argue that conservative Christian voters are going to forgive and forget. If we're really talking about Christians here, let's talk about Christians, eh?



As for personal responsibilities and parental responsibilities, take it from a single dad with a 16 year old daughter at home full-time, it's not possible to keep them on a leash 24 hours a day. The best we can do is stay communicative, talk about EVERYTHING, and instill strong values and decency within them. But no matter how responsible or effective the parent, ALL kids make stupid decisions. It's just that when they're teenagers, they can be life-altering.



Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's 13. Let's be realistic.

True, it's not possible for parents to keep an eye on their children 24 hours a day but like you said, at least instill strong values and decency and, common sense within them. If the daughter has some common sense instilled in her, maybe she'd have use birth control, or at least insist on the guy using a condom before having sex. Having a child while still a child herself is irresponsible, imo.



So... you're saying that if she's 13 you'd not have brush it aside that easily?

Polls = irrelevant until debates.



CBS has Obama up by 8, Gallup by 6... CNN by 1, Rasmussen 3... nothing which says McCain is in the lead right now, only within the margin of error...



The debates will probably help us see a clear winner... hopefully...

Aye! :up:

Polls-smcholls.

So she should definately know how to put a condom on.







My thought exactly!



That's really what the issue is here. It's not the fact that her daughter is pregnant. That's a personal matter. But it's the hypocracy that Sarah Palin was a supporter of abstinence-only education in schools. She brought that to the table when she accepted the nom as VP...but in the end it turns out that it didn't even work in her own home. And that's embarrasing for any campaign.

Really? I didn't know that she was a supporter of 'abstinence-only' in schools. I don't know if it's hypocrisy though for she may have taught her daughter that. Although, I must agree that it must be embarassing for her to champion 'abstinence-only' education and seeing it fail in her own home.



I was thinking that same thing too. I don't recall these conservative groups embracing Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy...they wanted her show pulled off the air.

Quite funny in a not-so-funny way, isn't it?

[danoyse]

I am actually most offended by that association of the three in all honesty.

Agreed. :up:

[jaguarr]

Exactly. Mom can't be over her shoulder (or his, shall I say), saying, "Here, honey, make sure he puts this on!"

Man, that WOULD be awkward. Though, I suppose there are people who are into that sort of thing.

jag