The Oscar Push!

[Steelsheen]

Thought these pics were nice from tonight's SAG awards:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/ferdalump/darkknight/610x.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/ferdalump/darkknight/87404f9a.jpg

great find! thanks for posting those.

now all we need is the video of Oldman's acceptance speech. i've been hunting around. all i can find is a transcript from various articles on the net:

"I'm quite emotional right now," Oldman said as he took the stage, visibly moved. "It's a great honor to be asked to accept this on behalf of Heath. He was an extraordinary man with an extraordinary talent. It is wonderful that you have acknowledged and honored that talent tonight.On behalf of Heath, his family and his family on 'The Dark Knight,' I thank you."

Raises statue.

"Heath."

[Hunter Rider]

Slumdog, TDK, The Wrestler, WALL-E and probably Button (although that last one is more for technical merit).

Heh, the first 4 are the same for me but Ive not seen Button or Frost/Nixon yet, so Revolutionary Road or Changeling rounds out my 5.

[byte19]

i'd pick iron man over reader!!! grr.....

[JaD]

*West Coast*

HEATH!

:woot:

[The Caped Knight]

Thought these pics were nice from tonight's SAG awards:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/ferdalump/darkknight/610x.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/ferdalump/darkknight/87404f9a.jpg

Oldman did an incredible job

[CELTICPRED]

I didn't think the speech was anything special but it's obvious that Oldman was very emotional.

Still saddening.

[jmc]

Heh, the first 4 are the same for me but Ive not seen Button or Frost/Nixon yet, so Revolutionary Road or Changeling rounds out my 5.

The thing is, had those four films you and I would have like to see been nominated actually gotten in, it would have created such an intriguing Oscars race.

The underdog low budget film that came from nowhere

vs

the billion dollar box-office giant

vs

the indie film that resurrected a fallen actors career

vs

the Pixar gem that captivated audiences.

It's a story in and of itself, such an intriguing mix of movies, you couldn't get a more different bunch of films, and all of which are more than deserving of the honor of a best Picture nomination, who wouldn't want to see such a diverse range of films battling it out for the Oscar? Instead, whilst we've still got the underdog, it's surrounded by a couple of political films, a holocaust flick, and the 'sort-of blockbuster'. A real opportunity lost on the Academy's behalf, they played it safe.

[Nina7]

What did Oldman say?

Kristin Scott Thomas looks...upset.

[JaD]

"I'm quite emotional right now," Oldman said as he took the stage, visibly moved. "It's a great honor to be asked to accept this on behalf of Heath. He was an extraordinary man with an extraordinary talent. It is wonderful that you have acknowledged and honored that talent tonight.On behalf of Heath, his family and his family on 'The Dark Knight,' I thank you."

Raises statue.

"Heath."


What did Oldman say?

Kristin Scott Thomas looks...upset.:up:

[Nina7]

I liked Oldman's speech. It was simple, tasteful, and to the point.

[JaD]

Will Meryl Streep get off the stage already?

*watches her finish speech*

*puts phone book down*

[byte19]

ha!! c'mon JaD that was just silly crazy fun thing she did. wait.... she IS human after all!!!!

[Hunter Rider]

The thing is, had those four films you and I would have like to see been nominated actually gotten in, it would have created such an intriguing Oscars race.

The underdog low budget film that came from nowhere

vs

the billion dollar box-office giant

vs

the indie film that resurrected a fallen actors career

vs

the Pixar gem that captivated audiences.

It's a story in and of itself, such an intriguing mix of movies, you couldn't get a more different bunch of films, and all of which are more than deserving of the honor of a best Picture nomination, who wouldn't want to see such a diverse range of films battling it out for the Oscar? Instead, whilst we've still got the underdog, it's surrounded by a couple of political films, a holocaust flick, and the 'sort-of blockbuster'. A real opportunity lost on the Academy's behalf, they played it safe.

Exactly, they had the potential to have a real storied contest, even if one of the 4 didn't make it there was still some story in there, now it's the underdog vs the technical blockbuster, 2 political films and a holocaust movie, basically it feels like you could pin the names to a dart board and throw a dart to choose the winner.

[Boom]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/ferdalump/darkknight/87404f9a.jpg
I might tear up.

[JaD]

ha!! c'mon JaD that was just silly crazy fun thing she did. wait.... she IS human after all!!!!I was waiting to see her slip and fall or something. Something nice. :hehe:

[Anita18]

I'm still (:huh: WTF) about Lyons saying Ben Button "is going to win BP because it made a lot of money at the box office."

After Benjamin Button did relatively gangbusters at the box office, I thought it had the Oscar in the bag too. :funny:

But that was before the precursors. :oldrazz: Now after the GGs and halfway through the guilds, it's VERY clear it's Slumdog's to lose.

and incidentally, is Bale a SAG member? i understand why its not Nolan who accepted the award (he's a director) and i sure aint complainin that its the fine Mr Oldman who accepted at the SAGs, but i was just wondering what else Mr Bale doesnt do compared with most actors (like having a publicist for instance)
Bale hates this kind of stuff. And he already did a speech for Heath sometime. So I guess they're just running through the entire cast. :funny:

I might tear up.
Even the award looks like it's going, "PRAISE HEATHUS." :woot:

[Boom]

I really like this quote.


Before the ceremony, Oldman speculated that Ledger would have appreciated receiving the honor from fellow actors.

“I don’t really know what he thought of awards ceremonies,” Oldman said. “I can hazard a guess. But I think for any actor, he’d have liked this one.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/2009/01/25/2009-01-25_joker_wins_heath_ledger_takes_sag_suppor.html

[WVsax27]

Just another reminder for Oscar clips in a few weeks, if you upload anything from that night you might want to do it on a fake account where you have nothing else uploaded in case it gets closed. They will find it and take it down...the only things they normally allow to stay on youtube are what is on their official channel and the nomination announcements. There are a few other things here and there, but for the most part they do find and remove all videos they didn't personally upload.

[Anita18]

anyone have/find video yet?

Just another reminder for Oscar clips in a few weeks, if you upload anything from that night you might want to do it on a fake account where you have nothing else uploaded in case it gets closed. They will find it and take it down...the only things they normally allow to stay on youtube are what is on their official channel and the nomination announcements. There are a few other things here and there, but for the most part they do find and remove all videos they didn't personally upload.
When there's a will, there's a way.

Or rather, if it gets on YouTube once, it will never die. :hehe:

LMAO the folks at Ohnotheydidn't were doing play-by-play of the SAG Awards, and when the memoriam aired, almost two entire pages of comments are, "Where's Heath?!?!" followed by, "He was in the montage last year!" :lmao:

:funny: And then it's 3 pages of "HEATH!" or "duh" or "GARY!!! :heart: "

[WVsax27]

When there's a will, there's a way.

Or rather, if it gets on YouTube once, it will never die. :hehe:
"

maybe for a few days/weeks, but I'm telling you from experience...they are hawks. They will find and remove just about every clip they didn't upload themselves. They'll probably upload a few of the major winners to their own account, but this isn't like a movie studio who just gives up at some point. They will find and remove just about all of it.

[Steelsheen]

speaking of which, i actually got the entire People's Choice Awards on hi-quality AVI format-- and the entire special (lumped?) segment for The Dark Knight awards in all its crystal clear glory. i'd willingly share it... but i think there are new rules on sharing stuff like this now? anyway folks just contact me if you're interested. ;)

[WVsax27]

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see the new rule. Forget I asked

Anyway...did anyone ever think you'd see a clip from Batman and Robin on an awards show?

[Jokers_Wild]

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see the new rule. Forget I asked

Anyway...did anyone ever think you'd see a clip from Batman and Robin on an awards show?

I noticed that...God rest Pat Hingle's soul. The least SAG could've done was use a clip from Batman or Batman Returns. :csad:

[Fenrir]

ithe fact that nolan is involved in the production and doesnt use a second unit has nothing to do with the fact that its wally's talent as a cinematographer that made the cinematography stand out. nolan had a vision for the film which wally used as a guide to do what nolan hired him to do, thats a cinematographer's job. but its wally's talent that made the vision a reality. and that is what teh academy is honoring. to say otherwise would be offensive to wally's talent.

It's not just the cinematographer. Or the lack of a second unit director. Every single frame of both BB and TDK has Nolan's touch in it in some way or another. From conceptualization (Tumbler, Batpod), to the writing, the action sequences, the realistic tone of the movie, the ambitious choice of filming in IMAX...everything. It's just f**kin' DUMB that the Academy nominated Nathan Crowley for TDK's Production Design and didn't give Nolan his due credit. It was in HIS garage where the vision both BB and TDK started coming off the page and into reality. And both times Nolan was one of Crowley's biggest collaborators.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3icc0b0d908a9310224767817bd0ab396c?imw=Y

Wally Pfister, director of photography on "The Dark Knight," was nominated for a third time in the cinematography category (after previous noms for "Batman Begins" and "The Prestige). He has never copped the statuette, so Pfister said he hoped the third time would prove the change. But he added with a chuckle: "Roger Deakins (nominated for lighting 'The Reader') has been nominated eight times and hasn't won. So part of my heart wants him to win, because I wouldn't want to be in that position." Pfister also noted the absence of "Dark Knight" helmer Christopher Nolan from best-director nominees. "I'm a little sad that he wasn't recognized for the unique stamp that he put on this film," the cinematographer said. "Everything that you see on the screen in this film and has been nominated in the technical categories owes something to Chris in origin."

Like I said before, it's just retarded that the Academy honored the entire crew of the ship but not its visionary captain who, coincidentally, happens to be one of the most hands-on directors working today.

I can take the argument about TDK not being Best Picture material. But there is no way anyone can deny that Chris Nolan deserved to be nominated for Best Director. Period.

[mclay18]

I'm still (:huh: WTF) about Lyons saying Ben Button "is going to win BP because it made a lot of money at the box office."


It has yet to break even domestically, so what is he talking about?

[Citadel30]

I really feel bad for Nolan- the guy really did some groundbreaking directing (using the IMAX to film action sequences) and to not be recognized for it is kinda douchey. I hope that Chris really doesnt let it bother him and if anything- fuels the fire to come up with better material (kinda hard to top TDK).

The Oscars are so trendy though- if a film is of comic book genre or extremely popular, it puts off the Oscars weiners (no pun intended).

I bet Nolan will get nominated later in his career for a lesser known film as if the Oscar Elitists are "making up" for the TDK snub. Its a way of recognizing his work without giving credit to a "comic book movie".

[JL Unlimited]

Am I the only one who thinks that The Wrestler is overrated? The Wrestler was slow and nothing really happens in the movie. The only thing that was great was Rourke's performance. Marissa Tomei's performance is also overrated. I've heard critics describing it as a tortured portrayal but I really didn't see that. Is it because she's a highly respected actress that bared all? The Wrestler wouldn't even crack my top ten.

My top five in order of preference would be:

The Dark Knight
Slumdog Millionaire
In Bruges
Let The Right One In
Wall-E

[scifiwolf]

The Oscars are so trendy though- if a film is of comic book genre or extremely popular, it puts off the Oscars weiners (no pun intended).

I bet Nolan will get nominated later in his career for a lesser known film as if the Oscar Elitists are "making up" for the TDK snub. Its a way of recognizing his work without giving credit to a "comic book movie".See, that's why I hate the Academy members and think they can all suck a hairy nut. The try and feign objectivity, but they absolutely will vote for Nolan at some point, not if he necessarily deserves it, but because they didn't in a previous year. I wish they could separate director and picture. Danny Boyle is going to win this year, simply out of politics. I didn't think Slumdog was all it's being cracked up to be, and his direction was nothing special. Having seen most of the movies, I feel confident that Fincher or Nolan deserve top director at the Oscars, even if their films weren't the best. I think they both exhibited the most skill and innovation as directors in 2008.

[Etienne]

why don't a bunch of you get dressed up and go protest....that could work....
That's a great idea! Why don't you dress up as Green Lantern complete with power ring and join them. :o They need all the help they can get. :gl: :cwink:

[Steelsheen]

I bet Nolan will get nominated later in his career for a lesser known film as if the Oscar Elitists are "making up" for the TDK snub. Its a way of recognizing his work without giving credit to a "comic book movie".
you can take that to the bank.

i'm starting to get the feeling that the Oscars are nothing more but a glorified, overly-politicized version of Sundance.

[dark_b]

I really feel bad for Nolan- the guy really did some groundbreaking directing (using the IMAX to film action sequences) and to not be recognized for it is kinda douchey. I hope that Chris really doesnt let it bother him and if anything- fuels the fire to come up with better material (kinda hard to top TDK).

The Oscars are so trendy though- if a film is of comic book genre or extremely popular, it puts off the Oscars weiners (no pun intended).

I bet Nolan will get nominated later in his career for a lesser known film as if the Oscar Elitists are "making up" for the TDK snub. Its a way of recognizing his work without giving credit to a "comic book movie".hes movie broke almost every record. people are obssesed with hes movie. they love it.

shouldnt the opinions of millions people matter more then some oscars?

[BlackLantern]

hes movie broke almost every record. people are obssesed with hes movie. they love it.

shouldnt the opinions of millions people matter more then some oscars?

I don't know if thats necessarily a good thing...I believe someone that post in here stated he had viewed the film 105 times in the theater....

[batman11]

I don't know if thats necessarily a good thing...I believe someone that post in here stated he had viewed the film 105 times in the theater....

What's wrong with that? Someone enjoys TDK, they go watch it a lot. Someone enjoys sex, they have it a lot. Same difference. ;)

[dark_b]

What's wrong with that? Someone enjoys TDK, they go watch it a lot. Someone enjoys sex, they have it a lot. Same difference. ;)
its obviously not normal to watch it so many times. this moeny could have been spend for a lot better stuff. even helping people who are nto lucky.

[The Joker]

I don't know if thats necessarily a good thing...I believe someone that post in here stated he had viewed the film 105 times in the theater....

105 times!!!!

That is insane :shock

[hatebox]

its obviously not normal to watch it so many times. this moeny could have been spend for a lot better stuff. even helping people who are nto lucky.

by that rationale you wouldn't spend a lot of money on any luxury you liked.

[GlasgowBat]

its obviously not normal to watch it so many times. this moeny could have been spend for a lot better stuff. even helping people who are nto lucky.


it's his money. let him do what he likes with it.

good grief.

[BlackLantern]

I saw it twice in the theater....but 105 is a little excessive

[terry78]

If any mother****er sees a movie 105 times in a theatre, I do not want to be alone with them. Unless it was a dare or they're doing it for some monetary thing, something is ****ed up there.

[Dark Knight]

I really feel bad for Nolan- the guy really did some groundbreaking directing (using the IMAX to film action sequences) and to not be recognized for it is kinda douchey. I hope that Chris really doesnt let it bother him and if anything- fuels the fire to come up with better material (kinda hard to top TDK).

The Oscars are so trendy though- if a film is of comic book genre or extremely popular, it puts off the Oscars weiners (no pun intended).

I bet Nolan will get nominated later in his career for a lesser known film as if the Oscar Elitists are "making up" for the TDK snub. Its a way of recognizing his work without giving credit to a "comic book movie".




^Thats probably exactly what will happen....unless they try and make up for snubbing it with the 3rd Nolan Bat film.

That's pretty stupid and pathetic of the Academy if you ask me when they pull there "make up" jobs.

Pure idiocy.

I'm not watching the live show and I will just be recording on my DVR and then later fast forward to when Heath wins and perhaps when Pfister and the other crew members win.

Otherwise this Oscar show and especially the Academy members can go to hell.

[FlawlessVictory]

by that rationale you wouldn't spend a lot of money on any luxury you liked.

Well, I'm sure that everytime dark_b feels compelled to go to the movies he instead takes that money and donates it to charity. :hehe:

it's his money. let him do what he likes with it.

good grief.

Agreed, as long as no one is being hurt, who cares what he does with his money.

[byte19]

i go to sleep and wake up to an afternoon of this? while flattered by those who don't care either way... let me reiterate, i like all things Batman, still obtaining the great bat-comics like knightfall, hush, and blood rain from elseworlds, all first prints. i've seen bat '89 42 times in theaters, i have figures, novels and soundtracks, I also have 1200 other dvds so it's not just about a Bat. I'm an up and coming film and radio composer and this where my career goals are going. yes I like sex too, my wife shares in some of obsessions as they were,and until recently, i was running a plant that makes and recycles 500 gl. oil drums.

i'll be sure to check out the other bp films eventually (cept the reader) and transformers 2 will be high on my list see multiple times (not over 10)

I love movies. how they're made, how they're photographed, the scoring process, everything.

besides, of the 500 mil. the movie made... i'm only 1% of that total? i recite the film, i play some of the score, i have friends, and nobody cares. i'm a blip.....

[byte19]

now when 2011 rolls around..... i think i'll call Guinness.....

[Anita18]

I really feel bad for Nolan- the guy really did some groundbreaking directing (using the IMAX to film action sequences) and to not be recognized for it is kinda douchey. I hope that Chris really doesnt let it bother him and if anything- fuels the fire to come up with better material (kinda hard to top TDK).
He's probably disappointed by the snub, considering almost everyone else on the crew was nominated, but he didn't make TDK to win Oscars. He just set out to make a good movie, and he certainly accomplished that. :up: Everything else should be gravy.

Agreed, as long as no one is being hurt, who cares what he does with his money.
Indeed. My aunt is a shopaholic, and I think that's worse since she spends WAY more money on that than if someone went to see TDK 100+ times at $10 a pop. :funny:

[scifiwolf]

You know, as much as it will sting next month not seeing Chris accept his own Oscar, at least we get to see him on stage accepting for Heath. That man should just go around accepting awards for a living - he's so eloquent and graceful.

[I Am The Knight]

its obviously not normal to watch it so many times. this moeny could have been spend for a lot better stuff. even helping people who are nto lucky.

Agreed. Ludicrous. That money could have been used for other things...Like buying yourself a life.

[FlawlessVictory]

i go to sleep and wake up to an afternoon of this? while flattered by those who don't care either way... let me reiterate, i like all things Batman, still obtaining the great bat-comics like knightfall, hush, and blood rain from elseworlds, all first prints. i've seen bat '89 42 times in theaters, i have figures, novels and soundtracks, I also have 1200 other dvds so it's not just about a Bat. I'm an up and coming film and radio composer and this where my career goals are going. yes I like sex too, my wife shares in some of obsessions as they were,and until recently, i was running a plant that makes and recycles 500 gl. oil drums.

i'll be sure to check out the other bp films eventually (cept the reader) and transformers 2 will be high on my list see multiple times (not over 10)

I love movies. how they're made, how they're photographed, the scoring process, everything.

besides, of the 500 mil. the movie made... i'm only 1% of that total? i recite the film, i play some of the score, i have friends, and nobody cares. i'm a blip.....

Dude, you don't have to explain or defend yourself to anyone, especially a bunch of strangers on the internet. If someone has an issue, that's their problem not yours. :up:

[Etienne]

Dude, you don't have to explain or defend yourself to anyone, especially a bunch of strangers on the internet. If someone has an issue, that's their problem not yours. :up:
Well said I agree. :word:

[JL Unlimited]

I'm not watching the live show and I will just be recording on my DVR and then later fast forward to when Heath wins and perhaps when Pfister and the other crew members win.




Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that recording shows on your DVR still counts towards that particular show's ratings.

[byte19]

thanks for sticking up for me guys.:yay: guess i am 'Ludicrous'... about movies....:hehe:

[BlackLantern]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that recording shows on your DVR still counts towards that particular show's ratings.

No...the networks do look at those numbers, but they aren't "counted" in the ratings....a highly DVRd show won't stop it from getting cancelled if the ratings suck

[byte19]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that recording shows on your DVR still counts towards that particular show's ratings.
i thought they keep track of that stuff like Jackson' nipple-gate, and how many times we men rewind that?:huh:

[byte19]

No...the networks do look at those numbers, but they aren't "counted" in the ratings....a highly DVRd show won't stop it from getting cancelled if the ratings suck
ah.... makes sense...

[Anita18]

No...the networks do look at those numbers, but they aren't "counted" in the ratings....a highly DVRd show won't stop it from getting cancelled if the ratings suck
Hmm, makes sense especially from an advertiser's standpoint. With DVR, you can skip all of the commercials, but it's the commercials that brings in revenue for the TV stations. :oldrazz:

[Boom]

Besides, isn't Christopher Nolan already receiving an award for advancing the art of filmmaking?

He's probably pleased about that.

[byte19]

?????

[I Am The Knight]

I'm sure Nolan will get an Oscar for another movie in the future. Possibly his next non Bat movie.

[Boom]

I can't remember the name of it. But I remember he won something.

[Anita18]

I can't remember the name of it. But I remember he won something.
I believe it was from the ASC, the cinematographer's guild.

[Dark Knight]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that recording shows on your DVR still counts towards that particular show's ratings.



Nope....I don't believe there is way for the Nielsens to keep track of what is being recorded or not.

What matters is when the TV is on that particular channel for the live event.

[Dark Knight]

Besides, isn't Christopher Nolan already receiving an award for advancing the art of filmmaking?

He's probably pleased about that.



What award is that?

[Great1]

I can't remember the name of it. But I remember he won something.

I think it was the Board of Governors Award given to him by The American Society of Cinematographers for "significant contributions to advancing the art of filmmaking".

[Boom]

Yeah that sounds about right.

[Anita18]

There's talk on World of KJ on BB3 being nominated for a BP Oscar, to make up for this year. (Yeah...no. The Academy will keep on chugging away in its irrelevancy IMO.) There's been suggestions that maybe TDK's perfect storm will happen again....but that The Reader 2: Read Harder will steal its BP nomination. :lmao:

Or! BB3 will be upstaged by:

2 Stupid 2 Read
The Reader Returns
Rise of the Readers
The Dark Reader
Revenge of the Reader

There's a joke about The Reader: Cradle 2 Grave in here, I just couldn't word it right

:lmao:

I love the Internet.

[byte19]

my god Nita! those are too funny...

[Dark Knight]

There's talk on World of KJ on BB3 being nominated for a BP Oscar, to make up for this year. (Yeah...no. The Academy will keep on chugging away in its irrelevancy IMO.) There's been suggestions that maybe TDK's perfect storm will happen again....but that The Reader 2: Read Harder will steal its BP nomination. :lmao:

Or! BB3 will be upstaged by:





:lmao:

I love the Internet.




^^Hilarious!

The Academy is so pathetic that it's not even funny anymore.

Oh and yes and if the Nolans 3rd Bat film is anywhere near as good as TDK, then I wouldn't be surprised of those ass clowns in the Academy do a "make up" job, which is ridiculous.

[JaD]

There's talk on World of KJ on BB3 being nominated for a BP Oscar, to make up for this year. (Yeah...no. The Academy will keep on chugging away in its irrelevancy IMO.) There's been suggestions that maybe TDK's perfect storm will happen again....but that The Reader 2: Read Harder will steal its BP nomination. :lmao:

Or! BB3 will be upstaged by:

Originally Posted by Dr. Lector
2 Stupid 2 Read
The Reader Returns
Rise of the Readers
The Dark Reader
Revenge of the Reader


Originally Posted by Shack
There's a joke about The Reader: Cradle 2 Grave in here, I just couldn't word it right


:lmao:

I love the Internet.http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/JAD51287/smartass/anchbrick-good1.gif

[General Vulcun]

Like Nolan said, there's no point in returning to do a sequel if A) there's no story to tell, B) if you are just going to do the same thing again, and C) if you don't think you can out-do your previous efforts.

If Nolan is currently prepping for Batman 3, then we can bank on him having come up with something as rich, if not more rich, than TDK.

[$klaary]

Found something...
DTMbXPS4_As

[TDKfanatic]

^Thank you.

[Doctor Jones]

I watched that. It was great. I love the intro to the trailblazer video.

With that great score and after they showed Hoffman in Tootsie, Joker was at the very end saying, "If you're good at something never do it for free." then with frankenstein saying, "Gooood... good."

[Motown Marvel]

It's not just the cinematographer. Or the lack of a second unit director. Every single frame of both BB and TDK has Nolan's touch in it in some way or another. From conceptualization (Tumbler, Batpod), to the writing, the action sequences, the realistic tone of the movie, the ambitious choice of filming in IMAX...everything. It's just f**kin' DUMB that the Academy nominated Nathan Crowley for TDK's Production Design and didn't give Nolan his due credit. It was in HIS garage where the vision both BB and TDK started coming off the page and into reality. And both times Nolan was one of Crowley's biggest collaborators.

Like I said before, it's just retarded that the Academy honored the entire crew of the ship but not its visionary captain who, coincidentally, happens to be one of the most hands-on directors working today.

I can take the argument about TDK not being Best Picture material. But there is no way anyone can deny that Chris Nolan deserved to be nominated for Best Director. Period.

nolan brought the crew together. nolan directed them according to his vision. they did their job according to his vision. but its their job that is being nominated, not nolans vision. nolan did a great job, he was very hands on, and immersed in the production, just like many directors are. his level of commitment was exceptional, but not entirely rare. there are film makers that dont work in this regard, and there are film makers that are even more immersed and hands on. nolan has worked the way he does on all of his films, but no one has ever been pissed about him not being nominated before. suddenly its a great crime?

[Anita18]

nolan has worked the way he does on all of his films, but no one has ever been pissed about him not being nominated before. suddenly its a great crime?
Because none of his films have gotten 7 Oscar tech noms before? The Prestige got more than BB - art direction in addition to cinematography. That's the most nominations a Nolan film had ever gotten. TDK got 5 more tech nominations than that.

Sometimes I believe you don't think before you post. :oldrazz:

[byte19]

found this at box office mojo:

The Academy claims that the Oscars are "The biggest movie event of the year," yet The Dark Knight, an actual movie that people had to leave their houses for and pay to see, sold more tickets than the typical viewership of the Oscar telecast.

and i've been pissed for Nolan since Memento.

[Fenrir]

nolan brought the crew together. nolan directed them according to his vision. they did their job according to his vision. but its their job that is being nominated, not nolans vision. nolan did a great job, he was very hands on, and immersed in the production, just like many directors are. his level of commitment was exceptional, but not entirely rare. there are film makers that dont work in this regard, and there are film makers that are even more immersed and hands on. nolan has worked the way he does on all of his films, but no one has ever been pissed about him not being nominated before. suddenly its a great crime?

That is because none of his previous films were of this magnitude. Working on TDK and working on Memento, Insomnia, The Prestige or even Batman Begins is not the same thing. Don't tell me there's no difference in that.

An indie-filmmaker at his roots manages to deliver the year's biggest blockbuster (not to mention arguably the year's best action sequence to boot) that also happens to be one of the year's most acclaimed films. Add to that his writing credits, his contribution to the film's production design and cinematography, especially with his groundbreaking work with IMAX...it's amazing. The fact that Nolan's work managed to give a disdained genre like the superhero adaptation any kind of Oscar buzz beyond the usual technical achievements is in itself a feat worthy of recognition.

It is stupid to write off the immense influence of Chris Nolan's vision on the work of TDK's crew. Both Wally Pfister and Nathan Crowley have a body of work that does NOT include Nolan's films. And the fact that both of them were nominated for Oscars only when they worked on Nolan's films is more than enough to further reinforce my point. And Wally Pfister's reaction over the Academy ignoring Nolan is undeniable proof of that.

Face it - the Academy f**ked this one up big time.

[Fenrir]

Because none of his films have gotten 7 Oscar tech noms before? The Prestige got more than BB - art direction in addition to cinematography. That's the most nominations a Nolan film had ever gotten. TDK got 5 more tech nominations than that.

Sometimes I believe you don't think before you post. :oldrazz:

Exactly. The 8 Oscar nominations pretty much screams "this is one damn well made film". Yet the Academy's reasoning "but we still don't think the director deserves it" makes sense? :dry:

[byte19]

fen, i get what you're sayin' but let it go. talk to us. he's dead set on agreeing with an academy that's out of touch with following us 'sheep' who believes real good movies and directors deserve recognition.

[BlackLantern]

Id say its a simple as the Academy thinking a CBF is beneath major consideration is all....

[regwec]

I was listening to the BBC world service today, which carried a short bulletin on the Screen Actors Guild awards. Interestingly, it detailed the awards for lead actor, lead actress, and supporting actress. It is as if sections of the media are holding a handkerchief of posies to their noses, whenever they are confronted with TDK's popularity.

[Fenrir]

fen, i get what you're sayin' but let it go. talk to us. he's dead set on agreeing with an academy that's out of touch with following us 'sheep' who believes real good movies and directors deserve recognition.

Yeah, sometimes it is ridiculous to see there are people who believe that the Academy actually has valid or objective reasons to disqualify a film. It's not for a lack of merit that TDK's director wasn't nominated. Just like BlackLantern says, the Academy thinks comic book films are "below" consideration for the big honors. Kinda like 1992 when Terminator 2 was nominated for a good number of technical awards yet James Cameron was overlooked for Best Director. And who was nominated instead? The guys who helmed "Bugsy" and "Boyz in the Hood". And at that time too, the Academy deemed a crowd-pleasing action blockbuster beneath major awards recognition. I'd just love to see anyone try and argue James Cameron's work on T2 wasn't Best Director material through and through and that the Academy was right in their choice of nominees. Go on, I dare ya.

[Motown Marvel]

That is because none of his previous films were of this magnitude. Working on TDK and working on Memento, Insomnia, The Prestige or even Batman Begins is not the same thing. Don't tell me there's no difference in that.

An indie-filmmaker at his roots manages to deliver the year's biggest blockbuster (not to mention arguably the year's best action sequence to boot) that also happens to be one of the year's most acclaimed films. Add to that his writing credits, his contribution to the film's production design and cinematography, especially with his groundbreaking work with IMAX...it's amazing. The fact that Nolan's work managed to give a disdained genre like the superhero adaptation any kind of Oscar buzz beyond the usual technical achievements is in itself a feat worthy of recognition.

It is stupid to write off the immense influence of Chris Nolan's vision on the work of TDK's crew. Both Wally Pfister and Nathan Crowley have a body of work that does NOT include Nolan's films. And the fact that both of them were nominated for Oscars only when they worked on Nolan's films is more than enough to further reinforce my point. And Wally Pfister's reaction over the Academy ignoring Nolan is undeniable proof of that.

Face it - the Academy f**ked this one up big time.
i would say that his commitment, dedication, and passion towards memento is on par with that of TDK or any of his other films.

and nolan's involvement with all the departments of the film is nothing unique. and saying that is not to diminish his involvement, because it's quite exceptional. but more often than not, to make any film of respectable quality would require such involvement.

and no one is writing off nolan's influence. but to imply that pfister and crowley only find themselves being nominated because of nolan's direction is to write off and diminish their individual talents.

[regwec]

I won't take up your challenge, but I do think that "the academy" consigns itself to oblivion if it is unwilling to laud artistic excellence where it can be found in movies that the masses actually want to watch. The thing about TDK was that is was genuinely superior to much of its opposition, and it was massively popular. If it cannot be considered for Oscar recognition due to the latter factor, then the institution is effectively declaring its irrelivance to millions of people.

[Fenrir]

i would say that his commitment, dedication, and passion towards memento is on par with that of TDK or any of his other films.

I'm not talking about his dedication, passion or commitment damn it, I'm talking about his effort and accomplishments.

and nolan's involvement with all the departments of the film is nothing unique.

Yeah, when you're talking about indie films not $200 million dollar tentpoles and the second-highest grossing motion picture of all time.

and saying that is not to diminish his involvement, because it's quite exceptional. but more often than not, to make any film of respectable quality would require such involvement.and no one is writing off nolan's influence. but to imply that pfister and crowley only find themselves being nominated because of nolan's direction is to write off and diminish their individual talents.

I am not writing off their own individual talents. I am talking that their talents were only channeled to their best and fullest potentials under the guiding hand of Nolan. Isn't that what a Best Director honor is all about? That he gets the best possible work out of his crew? And considering TDK's 8 nominations, the third highest of the night, isn't that exactly what he did?

[Motown Marvel]

Because none of his films have gotten 7 Oscar tech noms before? The Prestige got more than BB - art direction in addition to cinematography. That's the most nominations a Nolan film had ever gotten. TDK got 5 more tech nominations than that.

Sometimes I believe you don't think before you post. :oldrazz:

but he was implying that nolan deserved a nod due to his involvement and dedication to the film. and im saying he was just as involved in his other films, yet didnt get a nod.

hell, i dont know if you guys even noticed, but im not even saying that he doesnt deserve the nomination.

[hatebox]

Well, for what it's worth, I've long bemoaned the Academy's adversity to recognizing Nolan.

[Fenrir]

I won't take up your challenge, but I do think that "the academy" consigns itself to oblivion if it is unwilling to laud artistic excellence where it can be found in movies that the masses actually want to watch. The thing about TDK was that is was genuinely superior to much of its opposition, and it was massively popular. If it cannot be considered for Oscar recognition due to the latter factor, then the institution is effectively declaring its irrelivance to millions of people.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I think I am starting to understand the Academy's mindset a little. They'd rather be thought of as snobbish elitists by nominating lesser obscure films than "pander to populist tastes" by recognizing the staple bread-n-butter cinema (superhero flicks, comedy, action, genre flicks) of the least common denominator of the movie-going audience, even if said films are truly deserving of major awards considerations on the basis of their own individual merits.

[Motown Marvel]

I'm not talking about his dedication, passion or commitment damn it, I'm talking about his effort and accomplishments.
i would say his accomplishments with memento are just as admirable. he made a real masterpiece with a limited budget in 25 days that went on to transcend its indie film limitations and reach a mass audience, being recognized by critics, making back its budget many times over, and most importantly garnering nolan the respect and attention necessary to go on to become a respected director by the popular hollywood community, allowing him to make the films he wants to make.


Yeah, when you're talking about indie films not $200 million dollar tentpoles and the second-highest grossing motion picture of all time.

thats not true.

I am not writing off their own individual talents. I am talking that their talents were only channeled to their best and fullest potentials under the guiding hand of Nolan. Isn't that what a Best Director honor is all about? That he gets the best possible work out of his crew? And considering TDK's 8 nominations, the third highest of the night, isn't that exactly what he did?

im sure there are lots of things that come into consideration when nominating directors. surely, what you just stated is something that would be greatly considered. im sure people would feel even MORE snubbed and be MORE pissed had he been nominated, but not the picture. could a film not worthy of best picture have a director worthy of best director nod? i dunno. im sure it could be argued, and im not against it. hell, as i just said before, im not even arguing that nolan shouldnt of been nominated. im just talking based on the fact that he wasnt. should he have been nominated? i dunno, i'd have to see the other films to compare.

[hatebox]

A director has never won an Oscar for a film that hasn't at least been nominated for best picture, but I'd have been very happy to see Nolan get the nod even if TDK didn't. Honestly.

[Fenrir]

i would say his accomplishments with memento are just as admirable. he made a real masterpiece with a limited budget in 25 days that went on to transcend its indie film limitations and reach a mass audience, being recognized by critics, making back its budget many times over, and most importantly garnering nolan the respect and attention necessary to go on to become a respected director by the popular hollywood community, allowing him to make the films he wants to make.

Yes, but that is an example of a small risk with a big payoff. With TDK, he had a lot more riding on his shoulders. He had a lot more to do. A lot more to manage. A lot more direct. Like I said, there's a world of difference between shooting a great film under budget in 25 days that transcended its indie roots and shooting a great film on budget (200 million of it), in 6 months that transcended its superhero adaptation roots to become the first comic book film to near unanimous critical acclaim, recognition from the biggest institutions in the industry (DGA, WGA, PGA, AFI) and genuine Oscar buzz.

It is the magnitude of his achievements with TDK, not Memento, that made Nolan into one of the most accomplished directors living today.

thats not true.

Please elaborate.

im sure there are lots of things that come into consideration when nominating directors. surely, what you just stated is something that would be greatly considered. im sure people would feel even MORE snubbed and be MORE pissed had he been nominated, but not the picture. could a film not worthy of best picture have a director worthy of best director nod? i dunno. im sure it could be argued, and im not against it. hell, as i just said before, im not even arguing that nolan shouldnt of been nominated. im just talking based on the fact that he wasnt. should he have been nominated? i dunno, i'd have to see the other films to compare.

There you go. That's it. They didn't nominate Nolan for Best Director not because of a lack of merit, but rather because it would've put the, in a bind. Like you said, what kind of film gets 9 nominations including Best Director and Best Supporting Actor and NOT get a Best Picture nom?

[namtaB]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I think I am starting to understand the Academy's mindset a little. They'd rather be thought of as snobbish elitists by nominating lesser obscure films than "pander to populist tastes" by recognizing the staple bread-n-butter cinema (superhero flicks, comedy, action, genre flicks) of the least common denominator of the movie-going audience, even if said films are truly deserving of major awards considerations on the basis of their own individual merits.

They are elitist. That's the point. They have to be. What would New York be without the Hamptons? What would SoCal be without Beverly Hills? What would Britain be without....er nevermind. Anyway, its the Yin and Yang. Positive and negative. They provide the balance. Nominating TDK for Best Picture would upset the balance. Its like letting a super hot hooker into an exclusive club. Sure she's hot and a lot of guys have been pleasured by her and she looks stunning in a cocktail dress, but does she really belong in the club?

[BlackLantern]

They are elitist. That's the point. They have to be. What would New York be without the Hamptons? What would SoCal be without Beverly Hills? What would Britain be without....er nevermind. Anyway, its the Yin and Yang. Positive and negative. They provide the balance. Nominating TDK for Best Picture would upset the balance. Its like letting a super hot hooker into an exclusive club. Sure she's hot and a lot of guys have been plreasured by her and she looks stunning in a cocktail dress, but does she really belong in the club?

Well said....

[byte19]

if you wanted to do her yourself you'd want her in.....

[byte19]

oh wow.....

[BlackLantern]

I believe namtaB is calling TDK a 'super hot hooker'

[Motown Marvel]

Yes, but that is an example of a small risk with a big payoff. With TDK, he had a lot more riding on his shoulders. He had a lot more to do. A lot more to manage. A lot more direct. Like I said, there's a world of difference between shooting a great film under budget in 25 days that transcended its indie roots and shooting a great film on budget (200 million of it), in 6 months that transcended its superhero adaptation roots to become the first comic book film to near unanimous critical acclaim, recognition from the biggest institutions in the industry (DGA, WGA, PGA, AFI) and genuine Oscar buzz.

It is the magnitude of his achievements with TDK, not Memento, that made Nolan into one of the most accomplished directors living today.

which achievement is greater is debatable. frankly, i'd say the achievements of memento is greater. but thats just my opinion.


Please elaborate.

well, frankly, its impossible for either of to pretend to fully understand and know the lengths which nolan went to be involved in the production. which makes it impossible to compare it to every other director out there, who's work ethics are just as unknown to us.


There you go. That's it. They didn't nominate Nolan for Best Director not because of a lack of merit, but rather because it would've put the, in a bind. Like you said, what kind of film gets 9 nominations including Best Director and Best Supporting Actor and NOT get a Best Picture nom?
im not saying that was the case. not at all.

[Fenrir]

They are elitist. That's the point. They have to be. What would New York be without the Hamptons? What would SoCal be without Beverly Hills? What would Britain be without....er nevermind. Anyway, its the Yin and Yang. Positive and negative. They provide the balance. Nominating TDK for Best Picture would upset the balance.

It didn't upset the balance when they nominated Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T, Forrest Gump, Lord of the Rings and Titanic. What makes TDK any different?

Its like letting a super hot hooker into an exclusive club. Sure she's hot and a lot of guys have been pleasured by her and she looks stunning in a cocktail dress, but does she really belong in the club?

And what about the adulterous wives and mistresses in said super exclusive club who sleep around just as much, only that they don't make any money doing so like the high-class hooker. Now THERE's an analogy. :hehe:

[batman11]

I believe namtaB is calling TDK a 'super hot hooker'

And believe me, that's the best kind of hooker. :up:

[Anita18]

I believe namtaB is calling TDK a 'super hot hooker'
Should TDK consider that a compliment? :oldrazz:

And what about the adulterous wives and mistresses in said super exclusive club who sleep around just as much, only that they don't make any money doing so like the high-class hooker. Now THERE's an analogy. :hehe:
Oh snap.

[BlackLantern]

It didn't upset the balance when they nominated Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T, Forrest Gump, Lord of the Rings and Titanic. What makes TDK any different?

The Academy likes to throw us common folk a bone every now and again....LOTR was the last "bone" so to speak, so don't expect one for at least another 3-5 years

[BlackLantern]

and also Forrest Gump, ET, and Titanic make people cry.....that seems to be part of Academy criteria these days...

[Anita18]

The Academy likes to throw us common folk a bone every now and again....LOTR was the last "bone" so to speak, so don't expect one for at least another 3-5 years
That was back in 2003. So....2008 would have been a good time. :cwink:

[byte19]

The Academy likes to throw us common folk a bone every now and again....LOTR was the last "bone" so to speak, so don't expect one for at least another 3-5 years
but i'm hunggrreh now!!:hehe:

[Fenrir]

which achievement is greater is debatable. frankly, i'd say the achievements of memento is greater. but thats just my opinion.

And your opinion is wrong, in this case. Because it is based on mere personal judgment rather than facts and objective data that clearly say otherwise.

well, frankly, its impossible for either of to pretend to fully understand and know the lengths which nolan went to be involved in the production.

But the people who worked with him do. Yet their words are not sufficient for you? Plus, we have a wealth of interviews, articles, making-of documentaries and other supplemental material that clearly back what Wally Pfister said about Nolan's stamp on TDK.

which makes it impossible to compare it to every other director out there, who's work ethics are just as unknown to us.

We're not comparing every other director out there. We're only comparing the ones who were nominated. And even you can't deny that Nolan deserved a spot there he was denied only because it would have cornered the Academy into giving TDK a Best Picture nom as well.

im not saying that was the case. not at all.

Then what ARE you saying? Clearly you can't seem to argue with the facts that Nolan's work on TDK merited a Best Director nom. It's the whole bloody T2 fiasco all over again.

[Fenrir]

and also Forrest Gump, ET, and Titanic make people cry.....that seems to be part of Academy criteria these days...

You're using films that are more than 12 years old (at MINIMUM) as examples of the Academy's criteria "these days"? :dry:

[BlackLantern]

You're using films that are more than 12 years old (at MINIMUM) as examples of the Academy's criteria "these days"? :dry:

They always seem to award the overly emotional pieces was my point...not all the time (LOTR, No Country, Gladiator)...but if there is a serious tearjerker in contention any year, it will get a nomination....

[BlackLantern]

I love TDK as much as the next guy but it, IMO, it isn't emotionally moving...

[I Am The Knight]

I do think it's emotionally involving. The last scene with Two-Face really got to me the last time I saw TDK....

[byte19]

yeah but it's not enuff.... it'll never be enuff!! ;)

[Anita18]

I do think it's emotionally involving. The last scene with Two-Face really got to me the last time I saw TDK....
I always :waa: when the dogs start going after Batman.

Maybe it's because I'm a chick. :oldrazz: But I didn't cry during Titanic or LOTR.

[byte19]

:hehe:

[Fenrir]

They always seem to award the overly emotional pieces was my point...not all the time (LOTR, No Country, Gladiator)...but if there is a serious tearjerker in contention any year, it will get a nomination....

I love TDK as much as the next guy but it, IMO, it isn't emotionally moving...

But who said that to get a major Oscar nod a film has to be an emotionally overbearing tearjerker? I can give countless examples to refute that ridiculous notion.

[BlackLantern]

the only scene I get a little moved at is when the Joker and Harvey are talking in the hospital, he puts the gun in Harveys hand, points it to his head....Harvey shows him the two sides of the coin, and he's like "oooo...that's what I'm talking about"

[BlackLantern]

But who said that to get a major Oscar nod a film has to be a tearjerker? I can give countless examples to refute that ridiculous notion.

That's why I said "in SOME cases"....stop trying to pick a fight:yay:

[byte19]

Fooooood fiiiiiight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fenrir]

That's why I said "in SOME cases"....stop trying to pick a fight:yay:

And stop bein so defensive. I just said that notion was ridiculous. It wasn't a personal attack on you.

[I Am The Knight]

I always :waa: when the dogs start going after Batman.

Maybe it's because I'm a chick. :oldrazz: But I didn't cry during Titanic or LOTR.

Oh yeah, that part too. The whole ending sequence I find to be very emotionally charged :o

Now I did kind of cry during parts of LOTR :o Not Titanic though, ugh :hehe:

[Motown Marvel]

And your opinion is wrong, in this case. Because it is based on mere personal judgment rather than facts and objective data that clearly say otherwise.

err, opinions cant be wrong. thats why they're opinions. and in my opinion, when comparing the achievements of each film, while they each have their own defining merits, the achievements of memento hold more merit to me.

But the people who worked with him do. Yet their words are not sufficient for you? Plus, we have a wealth of interviews, articles, making-of documentaries and other supplemental material that clearly back what Wally Pfister said about Nolan's stamp on TDK.

and until those people work as extensively with all the other directors to render a fair and unbiased opinion, it might mean something to me.

We're not comparing every other director out there. We're only comparing the ones who were nominated. And even you can't deny that Nolan deserved a spot there he was denied only because it would have cornered the Academy into giving TDK a Best Picture nom as well.

to only compare him only to the other nominated directors would be to snub the hundreds of other directors out there who may have possibly been just as entitled to a nomination but were ignored, just like you claim nolan was.

Then what ARE you saying? Clearly you can't seem to argue with the facts that Nolan's work on TDK merited a Best Director nom. It's the whole bloody T2 fiasco all over again.
im not arguing for or against nolan's nomination. as for facts, the fact is nolan wasnt nominated. and thats what im discussing.

[regwec]

The Academy likes to throw us common folk a bone every now and again....LOTR was the last "bone" so to speak, so don't expect one for at least another 3-5 years

TDK is far superior in terms of drama, story telling, thematic resonance and spectacle than any or all of the LOTR movies, howevever. TDK is that impossible thing: an uncomprimising blockbuster, that should be difficult to like, but is beloved of many. I like the LOTR films, but feel that they are merely an efficient realisation of some near-infilmable books, achieved by dumbing down.

If "the academy" will only allow itself to recognise a movie that ordinary Americans have seen ever decade or so, then they should keep their powder dry until somethins truly worthwhile comes along.

[Anita18]

Oh yeah, that part too. The whole ending sequence I find to be very emotionally charged :o

Now I did kind of cry during parts of LOTR :o Not Titanic though, ugh :hehe:
Super-duper slo-mo tends to deaden me emotionally, hence the observation about LOTR. I wanted to push Frodo into the stupid boat at the end, too. :oldrazz:

And I never bite for cheesy love stories either.

im not arguing for or against nolan's nomination. as for facts, the fact is nolan wasnt nominated. and thats what im discussing.
Are you saying I'm more of a cynic than you are? :funny:

[terry78]

I predict The Avengers wins best picture in 2011. :o


:oldrazz: If it had any shot at being that good, I'd be counting the days.

[byte19]

I predict The Avengers wins best picture in 2011. :o


:oldrazz: If it had any shot at being that good, I'd be counting the days.
remember to start with it's no. of chances...... 0:hehe:

[General Vulcun]

Here's what I don't get. How can The Reader be nominated for Best Picture, which should be a celebration of a film as a whole, when it didn't even score lots of nominations for the aspects that make up the whole, like visual effects, make-up, art direction, etc.

I mean, it got cinematography and Best Actress, but were those 2 aspects really enough to encourage the Academy to go for it?

PS - on a side note, I really don't want to watch the Oscars, but part of me feels like I should watch in support of TDK's 8 nominations. I don't know what to do...what do you guys think?

[Fenrir]

err, opinions cant be wrong. thats why they're opinions.

No, opinions can be wrong. Just like the opinion of someone who says the earth is flat or denies gravity. When you have facts or objective data at hand, there is no room for "opinion". And it is on the basis of these facts that we test the validity of each other's opinions. That is why you are here, arguing with MY opinion. If you truly thought opinions can't be wrong and believed your own words, then you would have shut up long ago instead of condescendingly looking down on posters in this thread as "fanboys" for thinking TDK deserved all those Oscar nominations. I mean, it's their opinion.

and in my opinion, when comparing the achievements of each film, while they each have their own defining merits, the achievements of memento hold more merit to me.

There is a lot of difference between saying "the achievements of memento are greater", and "the achievements of memento hold more merit to me". If you had phrased it earlier like you did now, we wouldn't have had to waste three posts on it.

and until those people work as extensively with all the other directors to render a fair and unbiased opinion, it might mean something to me.

YOU'RE the one who has an unfair and biased opinion. On the one hand we have people who have worked with Nolan for years, people who intimately know his work, seen his talent and are appraising him for it and on the other hand we got...you. Who has been harping on TDK since months before. Hmmm. Gee, I wonder which party is the more reliable judge of Nolan's talents? :whatever:

to only compare him only to the other nominated directors would be to snub the hundreds of other directors out there who may have possibly been just as entitled to a nomination but were ignored, just like you claim nolan was.

That's broken logic. My argument about comparing Nolan to the current nominated directors because I think he was more deserving than one (or two) of them has no relevance whatsoever to the snubbing of hundreds of other directors. Because those hundreds of other directors weren't the ones who were nominated. And I have issue with the ones who were nominated. They're completely different things.

im not arguing for or against nolan's nomination. as for facts, the fact is nolan wasnt nominated. and thats what im discussing.

We KNOW Nolan wasn't nominated, we know that already. We're here discussing why he DESERVED to be nominated, discussing that the Academy f**ked up by not giving him recognition.

[Boom]

I have a feeling that if it lives up to the hype, the Academy will go ape**** over Cameron's Avatar.

[namtaB]

It didn't upset the balance when they nominated Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T, Forrest Gump, Lord of the Rings and Titanic. What makes TDK any different

Its the fact that its a comic book film. That has to be the only explanation. It seems that the Academy accepts the pinnacle of Sci-Fi and Action-Adventure, but when it comes to comic book films they aren't gonna legitimize the category. Let's face it, TDK is the closest a comic book movie will ever get to an Oscar and the Academy sent a clear message that its not gonna happen.

[Fenrir]

Its the fact that its a comic book film. That has to be the only explanation. It seems that the Academy accepts the pinnacle of Sci-Fi and Action-Adventure, but when it comes to comic book films they aren't gonna legitimize the category. Let's face it, TDK is the closest a comic book movie will ever get to an Oscar and the Academy sent a clear message that its not gonna happen.

Bingo. It's funny how after all these circular arguments come back to the same "well, it was only because TDK was a comic book movie" point.

[General Vulcun]

The Academy has nominated comic book films for major awards before, like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence. Thing is, those movies don't look like comic book films in anyway. The Academy thought they could easily nominate those films for major awards without so much as breaking a sweat because if you didn't do your research beforehand, you never would have suspected those films of being comic book adaptations.

So really, to me, it's the genre of superhero films that seems to be their problem. Even though Ledger deserves it, I can only imagine the Academy raging up behind the scenes for nominating Ledger for a superhero film.

[byte19]

record it gv!! dvr that bad boy and out and watch tdk again!

[General Vulcun]

I don't have dvr. I'm as poor as they come. :(

[Boom]

Even though Ledger deserves it, I can only imagine the Academy raging up behind the scenes for nominating Ledger for a superhero film.
Well, the Academy is mostly comprised of actors, and they didn't seem to have a problem with giving him the SAG Award.

[Silverglade]

I really can't see Ledger losing the Oscar at this point. I mean, he has won the supporting actor spot in every single category quite soundly.. throughout the entire awards season.

[Kargo Warrior]

I don't wanna quote posts unecessarily but Fenrir,i salute you....excellent posts.

To be quite honest i can live with TDK's snub as long as Heath wins...as he probably will.

His performance was so mesmerising,so above all the rest this year,it would've been such a shame not giving him his deserved due considering he won't have any more chances to do it.

Nolan on the other,is relatively young and full of talent...his time will come.

[Boom]

Let me put it this way. Ledger lost four Best Supporting Actor awards throughout the season.

-New York Film Critics Award.
-National Board of Review Award.
-Satellite Award.
-National Society of Film Critics Award.

Everything else, he won. It's practically a clean sweep.

[Motown Marvel]

No, opinions can be wrong. Just like the opinion of someone who says the earth is flat or denies gravity. When you have facts or objective data at hand, there is no room for "opinion". And it is on the basis of these facts that we test the validity of each other's opinions. That is why you are here, arguing with MY opinion. If you truly thought opinions can't be wrong and believed your own words, then you would have shut up long ago instead of condescendingly looking down on posters in this thread as "fanboys" for thinking TDK deserved all those Oscar nominations. I mean, it's their opinion.

except this is a place for people to discuss all sorts of opinions, even differing opinions, none of which have i ever looked down upon. shutting up would make it awfully difficult to have discussions.

There is a lot of difference between saying "the achievements of memento are greater", and "the achievements of memento hold more merit to me". If you had phrased it earlier like you did now, we wouldn't have had to waste three posts on it.

the importance of any achievement is subjective. and in my opinion, the achievements memento are greater in their importance.

YOU'RE the one who has an unfair and biased opinion. On the one hand we have people who have worked with Nolan for years, people who intimately know his work, seen his talent and are appraising him for it and on the other hand we got...you. Who has been harping on TDK since months before. Hmmm. Gee, I wonder which party is the more reliable judge of Nolan's talents? :whatever:
my pajama pants are the best in the world. but thats an opinion based on bias, until i've worn all the other pajama pants.

That's broken logic. My argument about comparing Nolan to the current nominated directors because I think he was more deserving than one (or two) of them has no relevance whatsoever to the snubbing of hundreds of other directors. Because those hundreds of other directors weren't the ones who were nominated. And I have issue with the ones who were nominated. They're completely different things.
er, except i was talking about comparing the lengths nolan goes to in his productions in comparison to other directors. not whether or not he was more worthy of the nomination in comparison to the nominated directors.


We KNOW Nolan wasn't nominated, we know that already. We're here discussing why he DESERVED to be nominated, discussing that the Academy f**ked up by not giving him recognition.
i've never discussed whether or not nolan deserved the nomination, so if thats what you are talking about then i dont know why you'd have ever responded to any of my posts.

[byte19]

The Academy has nominated comic book films for major awards before, like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence. Thing is, those movies don't look like comic book films in anyway. The Academy thought they could easily nominate those films for major awards without so much as breaking a sweat because if you didn't do your research beforehand, you never would have suspected those films of being comic book adaptations.

So really, to me, it's the genre of superhero films that seems to be their problem. Even though Ledger deserves it, I can only imagine the Academy raging up behind the scenes for nominating Ledger for a superhero film.
the way they see it... they were graphic novels, not comic books.
that's how they see it... sure it had colorful pictures in it, but you can get a non-pic. one... just like Knightfall!! hmm.....

[RachelDawes]

the way they see it... they were graphic novels, not comic books.
that's how they see it... sure it had colorful pictures in it, but you can get a non-pic. one... just like Knightfall!! hmm.....

But Knightfall stars Batman, a superhero, so it'll never get nominated by the Academy. I think Watchmen is going to have the same problem. It may be the greatest GN of all time, but it stars superheroes so it has no shot at being nominated for BP. Like General Vulcan said, it's the superhero aspect that's the problem, not the comic aspect.

[jmc]

Its the fact that its a comic book film. That has to be the only explanation. It seems that the Academy accepts the pinnacle of Sci-Fi and Action-Adventure, but when it comes to comic book films they aren't gonna legitimize the category. Let's face it, TDK is the closest a comic book movie will ever get to an Oscar and the Academy sent a clear message that its not gonna happen.

I'm not so sure about that, after my initial frustration I came to the conclusion that maybe not all is lost for the Superhero genre. I look at it this way, whilst The Dark Knight may have been the closest we've come, perhaps another way of looking at it is that this might be a stepping stone. If there's ever going to be a Superhero film nominated for Oscar a few things need to happen. 1) The quality of the films in terms of story and character development need to exceed the 'coolness' thing first and for most, they have to be looked at as serious films and not just a bit of 'fun'. 2) The actors need to be of high quality, TDK set the bench mark and subsequent Superhero flicks have followed suit with similar casts. 3) More films of a similar standard to TDK need to be made, the more regular comic adaptations we get that are more toward the standard of TDK, then the argument that 'these films' are nothing more than popcorn flicks won't wash. This really goes for blockbusters in general, I think Nolan created really the first Intelligent Blockbuster, a film you actually had to sit watch and pay attention to, just like every Best Picture nominee. More of those films will result in the Academy having no choice but to take notice other wise the will go from being irrelevant to non-existent.

[General Vulcun]

I'm not so sure about that, after my initial frustration I came to the conclusion that maybe not all is lost for the Superhero genre. I look at it this way, whilst The Dark Knight may have been the closest we've come, perhaps another way of looking at it is that this might be a stepping stone. If there's ever going to be a Superhero film nominated for Oscar a few things need to happen. 1) The quality of the films in terms of story and character development need to exceed the 'coolness' thing first and for most, they have to be looked at as serious films and not just a bit of 'fun'. 2) The actors need to be of high quality, TDK set the bench mark and subsequent Superhero flicks have followed suit with similar casts. 3) More films of a similar standard to TDK need to be made, the more regular comic adaptations we get that are more toward the standard of TDK, then the argument that 'these films' are nothing more than popcorn flicks won't wash. This really goes for blockbusters in general, I think Nolan created really the first Intelligent Blockbuster, a film you actually had to sit watch and pay attention to, just like every Best Picture nominee. More of those films will result in the Academy having no choice but to take notice other wise the will go from being irrelevant to non-existent.

Agreed. Hmm...could this be a reason for Warners putting all their DC porjects on hold? I sure hope so. I would really like to see this Green Arrow movie. And even though this is the Academy's particular bag of beans, I would very much like to see the WW2 Wonder Woman film.

Lets hope Warners scores big on these projects. No more Batman & Robins, even Spider-Man is not acceptable. We need more Dark Knights.

[Fenrir]

except this is a place for people to discuss all sorts of opinions, even differing opinions, none of which have i ever looked down upon. shutting up would make it awfully difficult to have discussions.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16314703&postcount=3873

I'm sure you used the words "fanboys" and "rabid bitter pettiness" in regards to the prevailing anger over TDK being snubbed with the utmost respect. I mean, they were only voicing their opinion which "can't be wrong". :rolleyes:

Don't try and feign innocence and objectivity of which you have none.

the importance of any achievement is subjective. and in my opinion, the achievements memento are greater in their importance.

What makes you think anyone gave a rat's ass about what YOU think which achievements are of greater importance in the first place? :huh:

my pajama pants are the best in the world. but thats an opinion based on bias, until i've worn all the other pajama pants.

Wally Pfister has worked with at least 6 other directors besides Nolan. As has Nathan Crowley. Check your facts before making dumb analogies.

er, except i was talking about comparing the lengths nolan goes to in his productions in comparison to other directors.

No, you weren't. Your post I replied to was this:

to only compare him only to the other nominated directors would be to snub the hundreds of other directors out there who may have possibly been just as entitled to a nomination but were ignored, just like you claim nolan was.

The point of argument FROM THE VERY BEGINNING was clearly comparing Nolan with the other nominees. Because, well, this is the OSCAR thread. Nobody said "Nolan is THE most hands on director alive today". That is why your pointless tangent about "hundreds of other directors" is irrelevant.

i've never once said anything here in part of a discussion about nolan deserving a nomination, so if thats what you are talking about then i dont know why you'd have ever even responded to any of my posts.

"Never once said anything" about Nolan deserving a nomination?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16313999&postcount=3760 - what's this about "Nolan's nomination is debatable"

Try remembering your own words before we have to slap you with them.

[StylishHokie21]

I'd say Nolan got snubbed for Best Director, but I'm not surprised about the Best Picture nomination.

[Anita18]

Lets hope Warners scores big on these projects. No more Batman & Robins, even Spider-Man is not acceptable. We need more Dark Knights.
There are very, very few Oscar-caliber movies in general in a given year. Not every one of WB/DC's superhero movies have to be Nolanized. And let's face it, not many directors are as heavy with their material as Nolan is either. (Aronofsky, Fincher, and....?)

I think the general audience can stomach something superhero between TDK and Iron Man once a year, though.

[WVsax27]

One thing that bothers me is the assumption....

If you are upset about TDK not being nominate=fanboy
If you aren't= snob

There is some middle ground here

[Cmill216]

Yeah, and the middle ground is TDK deserved to be nominated, and anyone who disagrees will take a Batarang to the face.

[Motown Marvel]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16314703&postcount=3873

I'm sure you used the words "fanboys" and "rabid bitter pettiness" in regards to the prevailing anger over TDK being snubbed with the utmost respect. I mean, they were only voicing their opinion which "can't be wrong". :rolleyes:

Don't try and feign innocence and objectivity of which you have none.
except my quote had nothing to do with someone's opinion.

What makes you think anyone gave a rat's ass about what YOU think which achievements are of greater importance in the first place? :huh:

i never stated anyone did. nor do i care.

Wally Pfister has worked with at least 6 other directors besides Nolan. As has Nathan Crowley. Check your facts before making dumb analogies.

so they can make an ubiased opinion about 7 directors. good for them.

No, you weren't. Your post I replied to was this:

The point of argument FROM THE VERY BEGINNING was clearly comparing Nolan with the other nominees. Because, well, this is the OSCAR thread. Nobody said "Nolan is THE most hands on director alive today". That is why your pointless tangent about "hundreds of other directors" is irrelevant.

and i wasnt limiting it to just those nominated.

"Never once said anything" about Nolan deserving a nomination?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=16313999&postcount=3760 - what's this about "Nolan's nomination is debatable"

Try remembering your own words before we have to slap you with them.
see, its cute when you cut out "in part of a discussion". because, my quote you pulled out clearly states its not a discussion im looking to have.

[Anita18]

One thing that bothers me is the assumption....

If you are upset about TDK not being nominate=fanboy
If you aren't= snob

There is some middle ground here
The middle ground is someone who simply figured that TDK was not the kind of movie that the Academy would like in the first place. Which would actually be most of the public, because they had no idea TDK was seen as a frontrunner for a BP nom. :oldrazz:

Or someone who thinks that the Oscars are a joke. :funny:

I'm still tired of having to explain to people that no, I don't care if you personally did not like the movie. TDK was actually expected to be nominated.

[Fenrir]

except my quote had nothing to do with someone's opinion.

Then may I inquire as regards to the intended targets and reasons for that insulting post?

i never stated anyone did. nor do i care.

Then please shut up. I'm not here to engage in circular discussions only to hear what you think is important or not. If you are incapable of detaching yourself from the cover of your own limited perceptions and discuss things on an objective rather than subjective level, then don't bother.

so they can make an ubiased opinion about 7 directors. good for them.

Which is a lot more than what anyone can say about you.

and i wasnt limiting it to just those nominated.

Why? Your irrelevant tangents clearly go against the subject and purpose of this thread, and this discussion. A completely deliberate waste of time.

see, its cute when you cut out "in part of a discussion". because, my quote you pulled out clearly states its not a discussion im looking to have.

So what discussion ARE you looking to have? You want to tell the fact that Nolan didn't get nominated? We know that already, so to what purpose exactly are you discussing this?

[byte19]

But Knightfall stars Batman, a superhero, so it'll never get nominated by the Academy. I think Watchmen is going to have the same problem. It may be the greatest GN of all time, but it stars superheroes so it has no shot at being nominated for BP. Like General Vulcan said, it's the superhero aspect that's the problem, not the comic aspect.
thanks Rach... in the case of history, the academy probably didn't even know it WAS a comic, let alone a GN. but, if they did know, the story was changed so much, (our hero really was NOT who they thought in the novel) they just dismissed that and gave the nod anyway as a drama, with roots in GNs. remind me if it was nominated for adapted screenplay... then remind me of who WON.... please.

[Motown Marvel]

Then may I inquire as regards to the intended targets and reasons for that insulting post?
yes, you can.

Then please shut up. I'm not here to engage in circular discussions only to hear what you think is important or not. If you are incapable of detaching yourself from the cover of your own limited perceptions and discuss things on an objective rather than subjective level, then don't bother.

no one is forcing you into anything.

Which is a lot more than what anyone can say about you.
its true, i have not worked with 7 directors.


Why? Your irrelevant tangents clearly go against the subject and purpose of this thread, and this discussion. A completely deliberate waste of time.

again, no one is forcing you to "waste your time" on my posts.

So what discussion ARE you looking to have? You want to tell the fact that Nolan didn't get nominated? We know that already, so to what purpose exactly are you discussing this?
i have no particular discussion in mind.

[JL Unlimited]

Bravo, Fenrir, Bravo! :grin:

[deathfromabove]

Sometimes I believe you don't think before you post. :oldrazz:

agreed. and this \/ made my jaw drop.

should he have been nominated? i dunno, i'd have to see the other films to compare.

:wow::hehe::whatever:

are you serious? then how do you know the dark knight isnt better than all of them? hmmmmn?

fenrir stop wasting your time and just let mo go.

he doesnt seem to have any point other than arguing with every point you make.

stop engaging with him and let us "rabid, bitter fanboys" (and girls) get back to the point at hand. this baiting and psuedo trolling is getting old.

[General Vulcun]

Sigh...when will a Batman score get recognition...:(

[Motown Marvel]

are you serious? then how do you know the dark knight isnt better than all of them? hmmmmn?
i never said dark knight wasnt better than the other nominated films. i just said on its own it didnt appear to be a best picture quality film, in my opinion. i would never say its a better or worse film than other films that i have not seen.

[deathfromabove]

i never said dark knight wasnt better than the other nominated films. i just said on its own it didnt appear to be a best picture quality film, in my opinion. i would never say its a better or worse film than other films that i have not seen.

so then how is it you have managed to argue in this thread for days about its oscar merits? the award is for best picture of the year not best picture ever or best picture in relation to every other oscar nominee ever.

i mean if you admit your opinion on the matter is pretty uninformed why is it you seem hell bent on ruffling feathers in here?

man i love your taste in music and avatars but you are coming across as...kinda foolish (or willfully obtuse). you seem to be intentionally ignoring valid counter argument in favor of going out of your way to disagree with nearly everything.

are you that bored? dirtbombs or the cobras not playing out lately?:cwink:

[deathfromabove]

Sigh...when will a Batman score get recognition...:(

apparently nevah

:cmad:

[Nina7]

Fenrir, you are a hero. I always want you on my team.

[byte19]

fen IS on our team. i almost got banned sayin some pretty mean spirited things, but others continued. fen had my back. along with others on the team. and now we deathfromabove!!
pretty good team so far...

[ronny]

Sigh...when will a Batman score get recognition...:(


What? They didn't even nominate the soundtrack? Are they mad? Have they completely lost their minds?
What is wrong with these people? Have they got absolutely no taste whatsoever?

[byte19]

none ronny... you go thru all that 'not qualified' 'oh wait, we'll let it go' and then, you nominate them separately??
let's face it, they have it in for this movie... Wally will get snubbed again (hope not) and may out of all the tech nods, we get 2 of them maybe?

[philranger]

i found this article just now. It made some valid points, subtle realizations. i think it speaks the truths that we all feel in our hearts regarding TDK and the Oscar snubs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/newsarama/20090126/en_newsarama/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem

[General Vulcun]

Great article, Philranger. Really puts things in perspective.

Actually, you know what? The snub really doesn't hurt as much anymore. I mean, my frustration on the subject has deminished from 100 to 0 just like that.

And you know what? I think I WILL tune into the Oscars this year, if just to cheer on TDK, for what it's worth.

[deathfromabove]

i found this article just now. It made some valid points, subtle realizations. i think it speaks the truths that we all feel in our hearts regarding TDK and the Oscar snubs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/newsarama/20090126/en_newsarama/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem

great article


Cuba Gooding, Jr., Jennifer Hudson, Marcia Gay Harden, Mira Sorvino, Marisa Tomei

Much ado has been made over the last month about the Academy Award prospects of last year's highest grossing film and critical darling The Dark Knight (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/newsarama/en_newsarama/storytext/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem/30728152/SIG=11kepiklm/*http://www.newsarama.com/topic/The%20Dark%20Knight), with Hollywood and even comic book industry "pundits" speculating as to the potential impact of a "comic book movie" finally being recognized with entertainment's most coveted golden statuette. The Associated Press published practically daily updates handicapping its odds as the pre-Oscar award season played itself out and the film racked up nomination after nomination across all categories, a seeming and usually reliable indication multiple Academy nominations were in the cards.

And okay, we admit it - Newsarama was no less guilty of this than anyone.

But as we all now know, aside from the universally expected posthumous Best Supporting Actor nomination for Heath Ledger and a slew of nominations in more technical categories, The Dark Knight was shut out (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/newsarama/en_newsarama/storytext/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem/30728152/SIG=11l1b6nq4/*http://www.newsarama.com/film/010922-OscarNoms.html) of any of the other "major" awards, such as Best Director for Christopher Nolan, Best Adapted Screenplay, and of course, Best Picture.

And now with about a week having passed since the 'snub heard 'round geekdom', I'm finding it more and more difficult to shake a nagging feeling that's been sitting in a corner of my brain all along, which can be most succinctly summed up thusly...

So what?

Marion Cotillard, Halle Berry, Helen Hunt, Frances McDormand, Emma Thompson

Bear with me here. Despite what it may seem, this is not a knee-jerk response to an unexpected jilt... not an "I reject you because you reject me" defensive mechanism that lay dormant in my psyche since high school. And yes, it just might have been fun to sit through the war of televised attrition that is the annual Oscar telecast with a rooting interest in the 4th hour (though I was pulling for Crash a few years back).

But the fact remains, as large a shadow that the Academy Awards casts on the entertainment industry every winter and into early spring ... as obsessive the pop culture universe becomes over Oscar consideration, the "impact" a win really bestows on its recipients is debatable at best.

Jamie Fox, Adrien Brody, Roberto Benigni, Geoffrey Rush, Nicolas Cage

I don't mean to discount what's certainly a significant financial impact on Oscar winners, particularly for performers struggling in obscurity before their nomination and films that weren't strong box office performers before their wins.

Oscar almost certainly means a bump at the box office for films still in release, much stronger life on DVD in whatever the case, and likely a [brief] honeymoon period for actors.

But none of these factors really apply to The Dark Knight, do they? Christopher Nolan probably already has any number of blank checks waiting for him for any project he chooses to do next, and did anyone expect the film itself to make even one more dime in rerelease or home video with a nomination or even win?

The idea was, that a Dark Knight Oscar win might be a game-changer in the eyes the public-at-large ... that comic book-based (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/newsarama/en_newsarama/storytext/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem/30728152/SIG=11vndcca5/*http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010919-Comic-Movies-2009.html) movies would finally be regarded on equal 'artistic' terms as a genre as say biopics, period epics, or the Academy's most recent crush - low-budget, independent dramas.

But as big a three month party Oscar season is, it is sort of the Prom of our entertainment-obsessed culture. Sure, it seems important at the time, it devours countless hours of attention, and fashion is a huge component, but in the grand scheme of things, what long-term impact does it really have?

Are there any Prom Kings or Queens out there still riding on the coattails of their coronation?

No Country For Old Men, Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Shakespeare in Love, American Beauty

By now you've no doubt figured out the conceit behind the above italicized asides. These of course are all past Academy Award winners in five of the most "major" of categories - Best Supporting Actor/Actress, Best Actress, Best Actor, and Best Picture. And this is not to disparage the talent, achievement, or the careers of any of them. They are all arguably worthy of the honors they received and no doubt for them the recognition of their peers was a worthy thing in of itself.

But besides being mostly all working (in the actor's cases) and recognizable, have any of these actors or films translated their win into anything transcendental?
So long as comic book movies continue to be developed and made professionally (and last year the quality was unusually high for any genre) and the box office numbers are still there, films based on comics will be made (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/newsarama/en_newsarama/storytext/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem/30728152/SIG=11mnfj79i/*http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010902-9-Movies.html) with the reverence they deserve, and isn't that really the ballgame here?
While, again, it would have made for a pleasant curiosity and maybe a more watchable ceremony, The Dark Knight's impact on film history or genre films at large wouldn't have been any greater with an Oscar nomination or even win, and it won't be any less without them. If anything, the mostly likely impact of the snub will be to further cement the Academy's growing reputation for pop-cultural irrelevance, while it continues to trade on the Red Carpet trappings of the whole affair.
Still debating Oscar's impact in your head? Consider this...
Cuba Gooding Jr., a dynamically talented actor who gave a star-making performance in Jerry Maguire and delivered perhaps the most memorable speech in televised awards history when the role won him his Best Supporting Actor Oscar in 1997, made Boat Trip less then 6 years later.
The point is, all things - even Oscar wins - have a shelf life.
The Dark Knight, and comic book movies, will be just fine without them.

[philranger]

thanks everyone! yeah, i think i may just end up watching the Oscars too. And i agree with you Gen Vulcan. I think the snub will always sting because TDK was so close to getting the nominations, but its also a great feeling to know that in a perfect world, TDK would go all the way! oscar or no oscar TDK is here to stay and has effectively changed cinema as we know. and by god, if i had anything of value, you can be sure i'd give it to Christopher Nolan and crew for their magnificent work. if they could only know how this movie has changed my life, our lives, i think an oscar would pale in comparison.

[philranger]

heck, i think i'm gonna watch TDK right now!

[Franklin Richards]

thanks everyone! yeah, i think i may just end up watching the Oscars too. And i agree with you Gen Vulcan. I think the snub will always sting because TDK was so close to getting the nominations, but its also a great feeling to know that in a perfect world, TDK would go all the way! oscar or no oscar TDK is here to stay and has effectively changed cinema as we know. and by god, if i had anything of value, you can be sure i'd give it to Christopher Nolan and crew for their magnificent work. if they could only know how this movie has changed my life, our lives, i think an oscar would pale in comparison.



Really? :lmao:




:doom: :doom: :doom:

[philranger]

Really? :lol:




:doom: :doom: :doom:

no. pretend.:bh:

[byte19]

now now... Frankie's kewl.... crazy, but kewl... he don't beat ya down..... just often. ;) yea i'm messin with cha Frank.....

[Franklin Richards]

Come on. I couldn't let that one go. ;)



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[philranger]

its cool

[Franklin Richards]

Also if it makes everyone feel better, I did pay my dues in Gotham City during the virals and got this card.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Self%20Portraits/005752.jpg


:D



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[byte19]

see? toold ya! :D

[byte19]

wait a minute.... you weren't in Gotham... Chicago were ya?

[Franklin Richards]

Check the stamp. You damn right. Navy Pier. :D



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[byte19]

basterd!!!!!!! lulz! where the hell were ya?!!? and how the hell did i miss meeting the great Franklin Richards??:brucebat:

[deathfromabove]

Check the stamp. You damn right. Navy Pier. :D



:thing: :doom: :thing:

i have been in the presence of the richards and didnt even know it?:wow:

[Franklin Richards]

I was the guy wearing a suit and Buster Keaton hat. :D I was in Adrizzle's Group. Where the heck were you?

:confused:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[byte19]

what the hell??? i won the reel!!!! the one who nearly died trying to keep up with you maniacs!! lol ;)

[Franklin Richards]

Ah yes! Now I have you placed. I was the only one with a sharpie and a memo pad counting the lamps. :D


Very good. It's all coming back to me now. Why the hell didn't they rewind and play the preview for us again? :D



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[deathfromabove]

I was the guy wearing a suit and Buster Keaton hat. :D I was in Adrizzle's Group. Where the heck were you?

:confused:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

running in the rain, on the phone with andrizzle and lemonyfresh, in full costume and makeup, dragging a saint of a ten year old boy behind me.

you might have seen me when i walked in.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4529/jokertest2010az9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

still wet, spoils in hand, back at home

[Franklin Richards]

Ha! You know how everyone waited in line and went to the right side of the theatre? After dropping off my cell phone I went to the left and got a great seat and didn't wait in line.


I'm so evil.



Good to see someone in the Andrizzle group. His red jacket helped keep us together.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Angeloz]

Yeah, and the middle ground is TDK deserved to be nominated, and anyone who disagrees will take a Batarang to the face.

Hehehe. I love it when the mods are the voice of reason. ;) :D

i found this article just now. It made some valid points, subtle realizations. i think it speaks the truths that we all feel in our hearts regarding TDK and the Oscar snubs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/newsarama/20090126/en_newsarama/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem

great article

Thanks to you both. :)

Angeloz

[Anita18]

thanks everyone! yeah, i think i may just end up watching the Oscars too. And i agree with you Gen Vulcan. I think the snub will always sting because TDK was so close to getting the nominations, but its also a great feeling to know that in a perfect world, TDK would go all the way! oscar or no oscar TDK is here to stay and has effectively changed cinema as we know. and by god, if i had anything of value, you can be sure i'd give it to Christopher Nolan and crew for their magnificent work. if they could only know how this movie has changed my life, our lives, i think an oscar would pale in comparison.
Bravo, bravo!

Yeah, it's kind of like people unfamiliar with figure skating automatically assuming Michelle Kwan is an Olympic gold medallist, when she has never won.

Or that 2001: A Space Odyssey won a few major Oscars. Or Citizen Kane. Or heck, Kubrick and Hitchcock. (LOL 2001 wasn't even nominated for BP!)

Not saying that TDK is on par with ANY of them - we won't know for years and years. Only time will tell, but an Oscar isn't an automatic stamp of a film's longevity or impact.

But if it's still in theaters, I still might watch TDK instead of the Oscars. Gotta stick it to Weinstein and the Academy SOMEhow. :hehe:

And I dunno if I could say the movie has changed my life in an utterly profound kind of way, but it's certainly led me to some interesting rest stops! Which segues into:

Also if it makes everyone feel better, I did pay my dues in Gotham City during the virals and got this card.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Self%20Portraits/005752.jpg
LOL your Photobucket account name is still Aunt Petunia. :funny:

And :lmao: you've definitely got the funniest card. The baby-eating dragon! And LOL the stupid stamp. Apparently WB wanted all of the joker cards that were passed out to be stamped by hand, even though it meant absolutely nothing during the game. But it certainly kept 42E guy's son occupied. :oldrazz:

[$klaary]

JngzsZ8RdCg

[WVsax27]

The middle ground is someone who simply figured that TDK was not the kind of movie that the Academy would like in the first place.
.

what bothers me most about a lot of those people, especially the ones that are trying to throw it back in peoples faces now, is that they themselves have no idea about any of the movies nominated or the Oscar race...which is what they always claim of "fanboys". I know a number of people over on IMDB that only stop by to laugh when TDK does not get nominated/win something. I guess blind hatered is okay, but to have real love for something isn't.

I was one of the people who jumped on the Juno bandwagon last year(and I still stand by saying it was the best movie of the year, so don't bother giving me crap for it), so those kinds of people are no stranger to me. It's just harder this time because Juno actually got some love in the big categories. Opinions are one thing, but when people try to attack the intelligence of someone who doesn't agree with them is when it bothers me...and yes, I know there are a few TDK fans that have done that too. I hated The Reader, but I do know a few people that did genuinely like it.

It's almost harder to be nominated than it is to win.

[Fenrir]

yes, you can.

Well then, what were your reasons and who exactly were your intended targets with that insulting post?

no one is forcing you into anything.

When did I say anyone did? :huh:

i have no particular discussion in mind.

If you are not here to have a particular discussion, then why ARE you here?

[Fenrir]

Bravo, Fenrir, Bravo! :grin:

Fenrir, you are a hero. I always want you on my team.

fen IS on our team. i almost got banned sayin some pretty mean spirited things, but others continued. fen had my back. along with others on the team. and now we deathfromabove!!
pretty good team so far...

Thanks, guys. It's nice to see that there are actually posters who read these long-winded and circular debates for once. :up:

[Jokers_Wild]

I don't have dvr. I'm as poor as they come. :(

Me either. I'm hoping to be on these boards Oscar night, to find out when the Best Supporting Actor category comes on. I'm only watching that bit for Heath, and then the channel will change. :yay:

[MSwift]

JngzsZ8RdCg


thank you. Nice speech by Gary Oldman.

[Pennyworth]

i found this article just now. It made some valid points, subtle realizations. i think it speaks the truths that we all feel in our hearts regarding TDK and the Oscar snubs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/newsarama/20090126/en_newsarama/opedthedarkknightnooscarnoproblem

thanks for sharing this - good read. :up:

As the week has gone on I've felt the disappointment fading and pride increasing that the film we all love is still a phenomenal success with or without the Academy's stamp.

[Etienne]

I don't wanna quote posts unecessarily but Fenrir,i salute you....excellent posts.
Bravo, Fenrir, Bravo! :grin:
Fenrir, you are a hero. I always want you on my team.
I'm honestly in awe by his posts. :hehe::up::wow:
What? They didn't even nominate the soundtrack? Are they mad? Have they completely lost their minds?
What is wrong with these people? Have they got absolutely no taste whatsoever?
I think Cap'n said it best. :funny: :word:
No TDK score? TDK's score was the best of the year. It made me JIZZ IN MY PANTS.
^That about sums up how I felt about TDK score. :woot:

[Motown Marvel]

so then how is it you have managed to argue in this thread for days about its oscar merits? the award is for best picture of the year not best picture ever or best picture in relation to every other oscar nominee ever.

i mean if you admit your opinion on the matter is pretty uninformed why is it you seem hell bent on ruffling feathers in here?

man i love your taste in music and avatars but you are coming across as...kinda foolish (or willfully obtuse). you seem to be intentionally ignoring valid counter argument in favor of going out of your way to disagree with nearly everything.

are you that bored? dirtbombs or the cobras not playing out lately?:cwink:
i dont know whats so hard to understand. i have seen the dark knight. and in my opinion, while the film was good, it did not reach what i feel are best picture standards. no matter what other films were released in the year, it doesnt change my opinion that its not a best picture quality film. i dont judge TDK's oscar merits based on the readers oscar merits. im not judging these films in relation to each other. TDK is it's own film, and i'll judge it as such.

p.s. i never dug the detroit cobra's :p

[Motown Marvel]

Well then, what were your reasons and who exactly were your intended targets with that insulting post?
go read where it came from.


When did I say anyone did? :huh:
if you choose to get involved, then dont complain about being involved.


If you are not here to have a particular discussion, then why ARE you here?
to have discussions.

[Badabing45]

i dont know whats so hard to understand. i have seen the dark knight. and in my opinion, while the film was good, it did not reach what i feel are best picture standards. no matter what other films were released in the year, it doesnt change my opinion that its not a best picture quality film. i dont judge TDK's oscar merits based on the readers oscar merits. im not judging these films in relation to each other. TDK is it's own film, and i'll judge it as such.

p.s. i never dug the detroit cobra's :p

How would you define Best Picture quality? To me that's really vague reasoning. Is it determined by your favorite movies of the year, or by looking at what the Academy did in the past and looking comparing that to a movie? Anyone can just say "It's not Best Picture material."

If you're not comparing two movies against each other, then how would you determine which five movies should get nominated for Best Picture, Director, etc. What if there are only 2 "Best Picture quality" films in a year by your criteria, do you think that only those 2 movies should be nominated?

[namtaB]

I'm not so sure about that, after my initial frustration I came to the conclusion that maybe not all is lost for the Superhero genre. I look at it this way, whilst The Dark Knight may have been the closest we've come, perhaps another way of looking at it is that this might be a stepping stone. If there's ever going to be a Superhero film nominated for Oscar a few things need to happen. 1) The quality of the films in terms of story and character development need to exceed the 'coolness' thing first and for most, they have to be looked at as serious films and not just a bit of 'fun'. 2) The actors need to be of high quality, TDK set the bench mark and subsequent Superhero flicks have followed suit with similar casts. 3) More films of a similar standard to TDK need to be made, the more regular comic adaptations we get that are more toward the standard of TDK, then the argument that 'these films' are nothing more than popcorn flicks won't wash. This really goes for blockbusters in general, I think Nolan created really the first Intelligent Blockbuster, a film you actually had to sit watch and pay attention to, just like every Best Picture nominee. More of those films will result in the Academy having no choice but to take notice other wise the will go from being irrelevant to non-existent.

That's the glass half full way of looking at it. I think TDK is the closest any comic book film will come to getting an Oscar nomination/win. The recipe was all right there. A "real" character without super powers, a good story, universal themes of good and evil, a great director, ground breaking work with IMAX, etc. etc. etc. I know you shouldn't say never say never, but I can't help but think comic book films lost the Oscar lottery forever.

[Motown Marvel]

How would you define Best Picture quality? To me that's really vague reasoning. Is it determined by your favorite movies of the year, or by looking at what the Academy did in the past and looking comparing that to a movie? Anyone can just say "It's not Best Picture material."

If you're not comparing two movies against each other, then how would you determine which five movies should get nominated for Best Picture, Director, etc. What if there are only 2 "Best Picture quality" films in a year by your criteria, do you think that only those 2 movies should be nominated?

if you want me to define some sort of check list i use to determine what i feel is a best picture, i cant help you there. it was a good movie. but not a phenomenal movie. thats my opinion. and i personally couldnt consider a movie worthy of best picture if i dont think it's phenomenal.

if by impossible chance there were only 2 movies to have come out in a year that truly deserved a best picture nomination, then i'd have no problem with only those two films being nominated. it'd be pointless to nominate undeserving movies just to fill out the ranks.

[Badabing45]

if you want me to define some sort of check list i use to determine what i feel is a best picture, i cant help you there. it was a good movie. but not a phenomenal movie. thats my opinion. and i personally couldnt consider a movie worthy of best picture if i dont think it's phenomenal.

if by impossible chance there were only 2 movies to have come out in a year that truly deserved a best picture nomination, then i'd have no problem with only those two films being nominated. it'd be pointless to nominate undeserving movies just to fill out the ranks.


Sure, I can totally understand. No one can tell you that The Dark Knight should be one of your favorite movies of the year.

But at the same time, that does mean that you can't go around lecturing people who believed that The Dark Knight was one of the best pictures of the year and should have been nominated. If all this discussion is based on personal preference, then you have to step back and just agree to disagree.

And I don't think it's a stretch to say that based on that criteria "only phenomenal movies get nominated", that there would only be one or two films nominated. Personally, I would only say that there were 4-5 movies in the last ten years that were "phenomenal".

[Vengeance of Bane]

But how can a movie like "The Reader" be nominated for best picture?

[Motown Marvel]

Sure, I can totally understand. No one can tell you that The Dark Knight should be one of your favorite movies of the year.

But at the same time, that does mean that you can't go around lecturing people who believed that The Dark Knight was one of the best pictures of the year and should have been nominated. If all this discussion is based on personal preference, then you have to step back and just agree to disagree.

And I don't think it's a stretch to say that based on that criteria "only phenomenal movies get nominated", that there would only be one or two films nominated. Personally, I would only say that there were 4-5 movies in the last ten years that were "phenomenal".
i havent lectured anyone. i have never taken issue with someone because their opinion is different from mine. and i shouldn't be expected to have to refrain from discussions just because my opinion is in the minority. thats not fair.

[byte19]

Ha! You know how everyone waited in line and went to the right side of the theatre? After dropping off my cell phone I went to the left and got a great seat and didn't wait in line.


I'm so evil.



Good to see someone in the Andrizzle group. His red jacket helped keep us together.



:thing: :doom: :thing:
my goodness!! that was you i saw down below me! the benefits of first....me and the mrs. sprinted our nearly 40 yro. asses up top!:hehe:

[scifiwolf]

Motown, I'm not going to judge your opinion. Frankly I don't think that TDK necessarily was the best movie this year, either, but I think it deserves to be in that final discussion, as I've said before. However, I don't want to debate your opinion, but the manner in which you reach it.

You claim not to judge a "best picture" movie relative to other movies. How can you not judge it in relation to other movies? "Best" is a superlative, which by definition holds that the movie in question is better (comparative) in quality to all other films released. The award is not about setting standards, but ranking movies to determine the best.

[FCEEVIPER]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that recording shows on your DVR still counts towards that particular show's ratings.
Just to be on the safe side: Just download the show later via torrent. :woot:

[Motown Marvel]

Motown, I'm not going to judge your opinion. Frankly I don't think that TDK necessarily was the best movie this year, either, but I think it deserves to be in that final discussion, as I've said before. However, I don't want to debate your opinion, but the manner in which you reach it.

You claim not to judge a "best picture" movie relative to other movies. How can you not judge it in relation to other movies? "Best" is a superlative, which by definition holds that the movie in question is better (comparative) in quality to all other films released. The award is not about setting standards, but ranking movies to determine the best.

i get what your saying and i understand it. its a totally valid point. the films nominated will be compared to other films with the idea that they should ideally be better than the films which are not nominated. but in my opinion, the nominated films should also have to fulfill an individual standard on their own, without being compared to other films. what i mean by that is, a film shouldn't be nominated for best picture just because its a better movie, but also because it's a phenomenal film in its own regard. now, thats just my opinion. how the academy works may be totally different. the title "best picture" could imply that the films are to be judged solely in comparison to others, with their individual standards not being of any importance. but for me, for a film to be best picture worthy, it has to do more than just be better than the film next door.

[scifiwolf]

Okay. I kind of agree with you, but it can backfire. Look at what happened this year with Bruce Springsteen. A really great song, but since they didn't rank it 8.5/10, it didn't make it.

[Motown Marvel]

Okay. I kind of agree with you, but it can backfire. Look at what happened this year with Bruce Springsteen. A really great song, but since they didn't rank it 8.5/10, it didn't make it.

i dont know much about that situation. but it would seem the opinion of the academy didnt reflect the expectations of popular opinion. for better or worse, its gonna happen. no matter the system in which these things are decided, unpopular decisions will be rendered.

[Jokers_Wild]

That's the glass half full way of looking at it. I think TDK is the closest any comic book film will come to getting an Oscar nomination/win. The recipe was all right there. A "real" character without super powers, a good story, universal themes of good and evil, a great director, ground breaking work with IMAX, etc. etc. etc. I know you shouldn't say never say never, but I can't help but think comic book films lost the Oscar lottery forever.

That lottery is becoming worth less and less every year. The Oscars needed TDK more than TDK needed them and their dismal ratings. :cwink:

[namtaB]

That lottery is becoming worth less and less every year. The Oscars needed TDK more than TDK needed them and their dismal ratings. :cwink:

The Oscars don't "need" anything. That's what the proles keep arguing every year when they are unhappy with the nominations.

They are the cream of the crop, the top of the food chain, the creme de la creme. So long as movies exist, the Academy that seeks to recognize top accomplishments in film will also exist. Ratings don't mean much to this institution.

Unless there's an equivalent of the French Revolution for the film industry, the Academy won't be going anywhere and their response to the screaming upset TDK fanboys is "Let them eat cake!"

[$klaary]

http://www.accesshollywood.com/gary-oldman-explains-why-he-accepted-heath-ledgers-sag-award_article_13269

[WorthyStevens]

The Oscars don't "need" anything. That's what the proles keep arguing every year when they are unhappy with the nominations.

They are the cream of the crop, the top of the food chain, the creme de la creme. So long as movies exist, the Academy that seeks to recognize top accomplishments in film will also exist. Ratings don't mean much to this institution.

Unless there's an equivalent of the French Revolution for the film industry, the Academy won't be going anywhere and their response to the screaming upset TDK fanboys is "Let them eat cake!"

They may have been the cream of the crop, but not anymore. Considering their credibility rating has gone far down.

[batman11]

http://www.accesshollywood.com/gary-oldman-explains-why-he-accepted-heath-ledgers-sag-award_article_13269

Oldman's the man.

[$klaary]

Gary rocks :-)

[namtaB]

They may have been the cream of the crop, but not anymore. Considering their credibility rating has gone far down.

So say the proles. The bottom line as far as awards in the film industry goes, the Oscars are the pinnacle. You mentioned their credibility has gone down. That's debatable but it misses the point. They still remain and will continue to be the sought after award in that industry. Nothing will change that since the inertia is too great. There isn't an award with the history, pedigee or power that an Oscar has. The fact that TDK fanboys are lamenting TDK not getting an Oscar nomination proves this.

[jmc]

That's the glass half full way of looking at it. I think TDK is the closest any comic book film will come to getting an Oscar nomination/win. The recipe was all right there. A ''real'' character without super powers, a good story, universal themes of good and evil, a great director, ground breaking work with IMAX, etc. etc. etc. I know you shouldn't say never say never, but I can't help but think comic book films lost the Oscar lottery forever.

I'd rather look at it in a positive way than ***** about how the Academy got it wrong (which they did). As I said, if more Super hero films are up to the standard of TDK and come out more frequently, then the odds improve, but there has to be compromises on all sides.

[Anita18]

But at the same time, that does mean that you can't go around lecturing people who believed that The Dark Knight was one of the best pictures of the year and should have been nominated. If all this discussion is based on personal preference, then you have to step back and just agree to disagree.
Exactly. I explain that to people, and then I let it go.

Which is why, you've noticed, I haven't engaged Motown Marvel directly in conversation for the past few pages. :oldrazz:

But how can a movie like "The Reader" be nominated for best picture?
Three reasons that have been brought up by other people, and I agree with:

1) Executive Producer Harvey Weinstein and his habit of being involved in snubs like this. Whether the nomination was because of him or despite him, he is most definitely involved.
2) British faction (and yes, I know a good number of TDK's cast and crew were Brits, it's still an "American" kind of production, hence the GG and BAFTA snubs)
3) Two renowned, loved producers Sydney Pollack and Anthony Minghella dying in the past year.

The Oscars don't "need" anything. That's what the proles keep arguing every year when they are unhappy with the nominations.

They are the cream of the crop, the top of the food chain, the creme de la creme. So long as movies exist, the Academy that seeks to recognize top accomplishments in film will also exist. Ratings don't mean much to this institution.

Unless there's an equivalent of the French Revolution for the film industry, the Academy won't be going anywhere and their response to the screaming upset TDK fanboys is "Let them eat cake!"
The thing is, they don't rule the movie world like Louis XIV or Marie Antoinette did. There's no need for a revolution. Money will always talk first for studios.

But they can't sustain themselves in this cannabalizing cycle of spending money for Oscar pushes if the public isn't paying attention. If nobody goes sees the films they nominate, the studios don't get money. I'm not sure where the advertising money from the telecast goes to, but at the very least, it'll spark the move toward cable and complete irrelevancy, like the recent Miss America pageant which nobody knew occurred. :funny:

Sure, maybe the Academy doesn't give a crap. They can keep awarding those golden statues among themselves as long as they like, regardless if the public is watching. But then the reasoning for having the Oscars has to change - everyone knows that there's a tremendous box office increase for Oscar-nominated films right after the nominations. That's the only reason Slumdog Millionaire will make it over $120 million. Good, little films like Slumdog need the Oscars for their success.

If people stop caring about them all together, that won't happen anymore. And then what would be the point of making this self-congratulatory ceremony so important for the studios if the studios get no money from it?

[namtaB]

The thing is, they don't rule the movie world like Louis XIV or Marie Antoinette did. There's no need for a revolution. Money will always talk first for studios.

But they can't sustain themselves in this cannabalizing cycle of spending money for Oscar pushes if the public isn't paying attention. If nobody goes sees the films they nominate, the studios don't get money. I'm not sure where the advertising money from the telecast goes to, but at the very least, it'll spark the move toward cable and complete irrelevancy, like the recent Miss America pageant which nobody knew occurred. :funny:

Sure, maybe the Academy doesn't give a crap. They can keep awarding those golden statues among themselves as long as they like, regardless if the public is watching. But then the reasoning for having the Oscars has to change - everyone knows that there's a tremendous box office increase for Oscar-nominated films right after the nominations. That's the only reason Slumdog Millionaire will make it over $120 million. Good, little films like Slumdog need the Oscars for their success.

If people stop caring about them all together, that won't happen anymore. And then what would be the point of making this self-congratulatory ceremony so important for the studios if the studios get no money from it?

That's why studios have tent poles and back a wide range of films from artsy fartsy to summer blockbusters. The Oscars are the Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette of the film awards. Nothing has the history, pedigree or power of the Oscar. It will always be the most sought after award in film. Its the award that instantly takes your film from obscurity to fame. Its the award the legitimizes your acting, film, directing, etc. Its laughable the way some have reacted to TDK not getting nominated by making comments that the Oscars have lost credibility, they don't mean anything, etc. These same individuals would've been screaming "Dude TDK got an Oscar nomination for Best Picture OMGZ!!!!" had it got the nomination.

[Anita18]

That's why studios have tent poles and back a wide range of films from artsy fartsy to summer blockbusters. The Oscars are the Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette of the film awards. Nothing has the history, pedigree or power of the Oscar. It will always be the most sought after award in film. Its the award that instantly takes your film from obscurity to fame. Its the award the legitimizes your acting, film, directing, etc. Its laughable the way some have reacted to TDK not getting nominated by making comments that the Oscars have lost credibility, they don't mean anything, etc. These same individuals would've been screaming "Dude TDK got an Oscar nomination for Best Picture OMGZ!!!!" had it got the nomination.
At least for the year. Nobody claims that an Oscar-nominated film (or even an Oscar-winning film) will be known a decade from now.

Yes, I know that's why the studios have tentpoles and blockbusters. But still, why would they keep on spending money to push Oscar consideration on films which always lose money? Why would they bother? It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.

(I don't think everyone has an ego as big as Harvey Weinstein, who insists on pushing The Reader even though it will not make its money back domestically and his company is sputtering financially. :oldrazz: )

Re: the analogy to Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, it's not the same. The Academy does not tell the studios how to make their movies. That's why Michael Bay still has a job. :oldrazz:

The Oscars are still currently relevant to the public. That's why you keep on seeing those ads about "___ Oscar nominations, including Best Picture." That's why people still care about TDK getting snubbed.

But once those box office increases stop happening, those ads will also stop happening, because why spend money if you aren't assured a return? The importance of the Oscars will be greatly diminished, and then the Oscars will have to find a new reason to exist.

Arguably, the Academy has been gradually sliding into irrelevancy for a while now (and thus, losing their "importance" in the public eye), and snubbing TDK was a definitely big slip on that journey.

[El Payaso]

It's not just the cinematographer. Or the lack of a second unit director. Every single frame of both BB and TDK has Nolan's touch in it in some way or another. From conceptualization (Tumbler, Batpod), to the writing, the action sequences, the realistic tone of the movie, the ambitious choice of filming in IMAX...everything. It's just f**kin' DUMB that the Academy nominated Nathan Crowley for TDK's Production Design and didn't give Nolan his due credit. It was in HIS garage where the vision both BB and TDK started coming off the page and into reality. And both times Nolan was one of Crowley's biggest collaborators.



Like I said before, it's just retarded that the Academy honored the entire crew of the ship but not its visionary captain who, coincidentally, happens to be one of the most hands-on directors working today.

I can take the argument about TDK not being Best Picture material. But there is no way anyone can deny that Chris Nolan deserved to be nominated for Best Director. Period.

The Academy didn't make a mistake by not nominating Nolan; they're just following a long tradition of stupidity and bias.

They don't nominate superhero movies for the important awards. As simplke as that. Never have and never will.

And if they nominated Ledger it was not because of his amazing performance but because he died tragically. That doesn't mean Ledger didn't deserve recognition. As it deserved Chris and Jonah Nolan.

Mark my words. Ledger's case will not happen again.

[Anita18]

The Academy didn't make a mistake by not nominating Nolan; they're just following a long tradition of stupidity and bias.

They don't nominate superhero movies for the important awards. As simplke as that. Never have and never will.

And if they nominated Ledger it was not because of his amazing performance but because he died tragically. That doesn't mean Ledger didn't deserve recognition. As it deserved Chris and Jonah Nolan.

Mark my words. Ledger's case will not happen again.
Ledger's case is very rare, as is TDK's precursor run. It's rare that a film from the summer lasts so long through the awards season, and it's rare that a single performance from a summer movie dominates the entire race.

But I agree that they won't nominate a superhero film for Best Picture unless they are positively forced to. If they didn't do it for TDK, then the next superhero film up for consideration will have to be nominated for everything that TDK was and wasn't nominated for, including GG and BAFTAs, and win some major critics awards too. In other words, it has to absolutely dominate, like LOTR:ROTK did in its year.

TDK was nominated for film editing, and I'd argue that's a fairly important award. Only nine films have won Best Picture without a Best Editing nom, since the Best Editing category was introduced in 1934. Although I guess nobody will argue that last year's BE winner, Bourne Ultimatum, deserved a Best Picture nom. :funny:

[Silverglade]

Full victory. Entire win for Heath from start to finish.

Here is direct link if the embed is not appearing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JngzsZ8RdCg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JngzsZ8RdCg

[Boom]

Finally. Thanks, Silverglade :up:.

[Badabing45]

The Academy as an institution certainly cares about its credibility, otherwise why would they feel the need to give out "make up" awards? Whenever there's any controversy about something (i.e. "Why hasn't Scorsese been given Best Director?"), members of the Academy is fully aware of that. Does anyone think that Martin Scorsese should have won for The Departed instead of Goodfellas? Of course, no one really cares. All they care about is that when Marty's next film comes out, all the commercials will say "A Film by Academy Award Winner Martin Scorsese". And the Academy gets to say that they awarded one of the greatest directors of all time.

That's why after almost a week to think about this, it's inevitable that a comic book movie, or a superhero movie, will get nominated. It may even win one of these years. It may not happen in the next year, or even the next 10 years, but it'll happen because each year, comic book movies have become much more complex with their storytelling. The bar keeps getting raised, and people now expect quality from them.

Plus The Dark Knight's 8 nominations, Heath Ledger's anticipated win for Best Supporting Actor, and the controversy surrounding its Best Picture snub, also legitimized the genre. "Award a comic book movie" is now on the Academy's to-do list.

[jmc]

The Academy as an institution certainly cares about its credibility, otherwise why would they feel the need to give out ''make up'' awards? Whenever there's any controversy about something (i.e. ''Why hasn't Scorsese been given Best Director?''), members of the Academy is fully aware of that. Does anyone think that Martin Scorsese should have won for The Departed instead of Goodfellas? Of course, no one really cares. All they care about is that when Marty's next film comes out, all the commercials will say ''A Film by Academy Award Winner Martin Scorsese''. And the Academy gets to say that they awarded one of the greatest directors of all time.

That's why after almost a week to think about this, it's inevitable that a comic book movie, or a superhero movie, will get nominated. It may even win one of these years. It may not happen in the next year, or even the next 10 years, but it'll happen because each year, comic book movies have become much more complex with their storytelling. The bar keeps getting raised, and people now expect quality from them.

Plus The Dark Knight's 8 nominations, Heath Ledger's anticipated win for Best Supporting Actor, and the controversy surrounding its Best Picture snub, also legitimized the genre. ''Award a comic book movie'' is now on the Academy's to-do list.

That's the best way to look at it, the more comic adaptations that are on par with TDK, the harder it becomes to dismiss them as un-Oscar worthy. But the studios need to be willing to take that route and fans need to be willing to be more open to character driven story rather than the 'coolness' factor.

[byte19]

but i thought last year Paramount and WB did that.......

[Etienne]

Re: the analogy to Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, it's not the same. The Academy does not tell the studios how to make their movies. That's why Michael Bay still has a job. :oldrazz:
Ouch! :funny::up:

[byte19]

i thought that's why Bad ass Boll is allowed to make movies still?

[Motown Marvel]

Which is why, you've noticed, I haven't engaged Motown Marvel directly in conversation for the past few pages. :oldrazz:
does this mean it'd be futile for me to ask you to dinner?

[Anita18]

does this mean it'd be futile for me to ask you to dinner?
Depends. You'd better not be like that dude on the Carls Jr. commercial who tells his girl they're going to a "steak dinner" when he really meant fast food. :oldrazz:

[byte19]

:hehe:

[Motown Marvel]

Depends. You'd better not be like that dude on the Carls Jr. commercial who tells his girl they're going to a "steak dinner" when he really meant fast food. :oldrazz:

oh no no, im telling you upfront we're getting fast food.

[Cancer4TheCure]

I love watching awards shows and seeing some people get recognized. However, I am not watching the Oscars this year simply for their seeming lack of sense. This is only my opinion, not fact, but I think some of the films nominated are just plain jokes.

RDJ's noms for Tropic Thunder make me cringe (any kid in a high school play can do that), and the continuing praise for Slumdog Millionaire is way overblown in my eyes. It was a good movie, but is not worthy of Best Picture. I can count films on one hand that were better than it, but it wouldn't make a difference.

I think the problem with a lot of these awards is that they try to spread the awards for the sake of it. Take the SAGs for example: Both Doubt and Milk got numerous acting noms that outnumbered Slumdog's, yet it wins Best Ensemble. I guess the process of voting just doesn't make sense to me.

Then you have a film like The Dark Knight, that is incredibly reviewed and respected. But, instead of nominating it they opt to give the spots to Frost/Nixon and The Reader, both of which were rated significantly lower critically. Just makes my brain hurt.

[ultimatefan]

Like I say in my sig, what´s more important, to win an award and get forgotten the next year, or be one of those movies that will have millions of loving fans who´ll quote it, pay tribute to it, be inspired by it, parody it, etc., for years and years? That´s what The Dark Knight will be.

2009 has come, let´s see how Watchmen and Wolverine turn out. Moving on.

[Anita18]

oh no no, im telling you upfront we're getting fast food.
At least you're honest. :funny:

[byte19]

yeah UF, thers's something bout both of those i may not like just cause what went on behind the scenes.... but we'll see......

[El Payaso]

That's the best way to look at it, the more comic adaptations that are on par with TDK, the harder it becomes to dismiss them as un-Oscar worthy. But the studios need to be willing to take that route and fans need to be willing to be more open to character driven story rather than the 'coolness' factor.

So, on the basis of one movie every 10-20 years that is this good, Academy should give up the day before before the Arctic melts.

[jmc]

So, on the basis of one movie every 10-20 years that is this good, Academy should give up the day before before the Arctic melts.

The only thing holding back more superhero flicks being made like TDK is movie studios who treat their audience like 12 year old kids by making candy coated garbage. Films up to TDK standard are not going to happen every year, but if it become more and more common that the overall quality of superhero flicks starts getting close to that level the TDK reached each year, eventually one will come along that will match it, or perhaps even exceed it. It may not happen for 5-10 years, but if the quality improves, the chances will improve.

[WVsax27]

Did you know that Michael Bay is actually a member of The Academy? I'm not really sure how he pulled that off, normally you have to have been nominated or won to be invited...or at least done something.

[Silverglade]

I don't hate on Bay. He does what he does. He makes big popcorn summer films. Maybe some of those are not worthy to be purchased on Blu-Ray or to grace our shelves, but the guy is alright. I like some blockbuster dumb-fun movies and I enjoy some of his stuff. After a long week at work, a Bay film satisfies. As long as I suspend disbelief. lol. But yeah, you know.

[byte19]

you know in that time... another Batman movie will be out.....

[WVsax27]

eh, I liked The Rock. Transformers was fun. I wrote a paper for a college class on things I disliked about The Island though...but to each their own.

[Nina7]

Is Chris Nolan a member of the Academy? Does anyone know? He was nominated for original screenplay for Memento, so maybe they invited him. Although, just because you're nominated does not mean you're automatically invited.

[WVsax27]

Is Chris Nolan a member of the Academy? Does anyone know? He was nominated for original screenplay for Memento, so maybe they invited him. Although, just because you're nominated does not mean you're automatically invited.

I have no idea, but you are right they don't let everyone in. They rejected Ellen Page's request...yet Scarlett Johansson is a member. I'm not even hating on Scarlett, she can be pretty good when she actually has good material to work with(ie NOT The Island).

[Cmill216]

Did you know that Michael Bay is actually a member of The Academy? I'm not really sure how he pulled that off, normally you have to have been nominated or won to be invited...or at least done something.

The scripts he directs may be clunky, but I don't think anyone can deny that the man is a visual genius.

[Nina7]

I have no idea, but you are right they don't let everyone in. They rejected Ellen Page's request...yet Scarlett Johansson is a member. I'm not even hating on Scarlett, she can be pretty good when she actually has good material to work with(ie NOT The Island).

Scarlett J is a member of the Academy? Why? Wait, aren't most of the Academy members male? Kidding. A little...maybe. Anyway, I saw a list of recent Academy invitees and was shocked at some of the names. Christopher Plummer and Werner Herzog were invited within the past couple of years. You would think with their body of work that they would have been asked to be members decades ago. Yet, ScarJo gets an invite. Okay.

[WVsax27]

The scripts he directs may be clunky, but I don't think anyone can deny that the man is a visual genius.

He's okay, I don't like the music video style editing he uses though. And doing movies with consistently mediocre performances tends to reflect on the Director as well.

[terry78]

I love Michael Bay as a director. He knows how to use a budget, even if the story don't call for 'spolsions. If you want your screenplay to make money, you hire Bay, because with the exception of The Island, they all have.

[WVsax27]

well, I'm not going to argue against the fact that he has found his nitch and seems to be good at pulling in cash. I just don't really enjoy most of his films, but that is just my opinion

I just kind of look at him as the "Wal-Mart" James Cameron.

[jmc]

I like to think of Michael Bay films as the cinema equivalent to McDonalds, it's seems like a good idea at the time, but afterward you just end up feeling sick and wondering why you bothered wasting your money. Seriously, if he knew anything about good story and character development he would be without doubt the best director in the world, but alas it is not his strength, nor does he seem to care.

[terry78]

I like to think of Michael Bay films as the cinema equivalent to McDonalds, it's seems like a good idea at the time, but afterward you just end up feeling sick and wondering why you bothered wasting your money. Seriously, if he knew anything about good story and character development he would be without doubt the best director in the world, but alas it is not his strength, nor does he seem to care.

To quote Dee Dee from Dexter's Lab, you can't have brains and be a model too.

[mclay18]

The scripts he directs may be clunky, but I don't think anyone can deny that the man is a visual genius.

That's the quality of the cinematographers he brought in. However, Mitchell Amundson did a poor job for Transformers -- a basic visual reworking of Armageddon with heavily saturated color, stylized color timing and too many "hey, look at me!" shots. And speaking of shots, his 360 shots are sickeningly repetitive -- aren't there 2-3 of them in TF? Those almost gave me motion sickness.

And the person who said that he's the Walmart James Cameron is an insult to both Wal-mart and JC. I think Bay bribed some of his closest friends to extend him an invite to the Academy.

[Anita18]

I don't hate on Bay. He does what he does. He makes big popcorn summer films. Maybe some of those are not worthy to be purchased on Blu-Ray or to grace our shelves, but the guy is alright. I like some blockbuster dumb-fun movies and I enjoy some of his stuff. After a long week at work, a Bay film satisfies. As long as I suspend disbelief. lol. But yeah, you know.
I don't hate on Bay either. He's a popcorn movie kind of director, and to my knowledge, has never claimed to be anything more. I'm down with that.

And yeah, you know what you're getting with a Bay movie. I was :lmao: in The Rock when that cable car goes up like, 20 feet straight up in an explosion.

[WVsax27]

And the person who said that he's the Walmart James Cameron is an insult to both Wal-mart and JC. .

I think it is an accurate description though. His films are mostly generic and not as well made versions of something Cameron would do

[Anita18]

And the person who said that he's the Walmart James Cameron is an insult to both Wal-mart and JC. I think Bay bribed some of his closest friends to extend him an invite to the Academy.
:funny: From what I've heard, Bay isn't averse to um....bribery. :o