Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[ShadowBoxing]

Arctic ice cap melting away

September 30, 2005



THE Arctic ice cap could disappear completely, well before the end of the century as a result of global warming, US scientists have warned.

The Arctic ice shelf has melted for the fourth straight year to its smallest area in a century, driven by rising temperatures that appear linked to a build-up of greenhouse gases.

If the shrinking trend continues at its present rate of 8 per cent a year, there could be no ice at all at the pole as early as the summer of 2060.

The extent of Arctic sea ice varies naturally, but researchers from the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre and NASA, which produced the new data, said there were strong indications that human-induced global warming was at least partially responsible. "It's still a controversial issue, and there's always going to be some uncertainty because the climate system does have a lot of natural variability, especially in the Arctic," said Mark Serreze of NSIDC, who led the research, "but I think the evidence is growing very, very strong that part of what we're seeing now is the increased greenhouse effect."



Sea ice cover in the Arctic, which does not boast a continental land mass like Antarctica, always shrinks to its lowest point in September, at the end of the northern hemisphere summer. For each of the past four years, satellite data has shown a substantial reduction in ice extent during this period.

On September 21, the average size of the cap had dropped to 5.31 million square kilometres -- the lowest in satellite records that stretch back to 1978.

Less accurate historical records indicate the latest low is unprecedented for more than a century. The area now covered by ice is 20 per cent lower than the average from 1978 to 2000.

"September 2005 will set a new record minimum in the amount of Arctic sea ice cover," Dr Serreze said. "It's the least sea ice we've seen in the satellite record, and continues a pattern of extreme low extents of sea ice which we've seen for the past four years."

Julienne Stroeve, one of his colleagues, said: "Considering the record low amounts of sea ice this year leading up to the month of September 2005 will almost certainly surpass 2002 as the lowest amount of ice cover in more than a century."

The decline is particularly worrying as it has the potential to create a feedback effect that accelerates global warming. Sea ice reflects much of the sun's heat back into space, while the ocean beneath absorbs it, so shrinking cover will raise temperatures still further. Reuters, The Times

[JMT]

Nice :up:

[JokerFish]

Where will the Penguins march then?! Muwahaha

[Carter]

Ill be dead, who cares?

[Sam Fisher]

The Day after Tomorrow Yeah, baby, yeah!

[ShadowBoxing]

Where will the Penguins march then?! Muwahaha
here are a few maps of the new coastlines when the caps melt

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/earthnoice.jpg
http://www.agen.ufl.edu/~chyn/age2062/lect/lect_29/40_17.GIF

[Slipknot]

Ill be dead, who cares?
You don't plan on living until 80?

[The Question]

We're ****ed.

[Sam Fisher]

It's the aliens' fault

[KingOfDreams]

2060. I will be 75 years old then. Hmm, and Austin might become a coastal city. And whole states might be gone. Wow.

[newmexneon]

It's not because of Global Warming, the Earth goes thru periodical climate changes every few thousand years. The Ice age was the last major cold snap and now we are entering a heat wave theat will propably last a long time.

[Helghast]

By that time they'll probably find a way to keep the Artic cold.

Or make huge artificial ice things.

[Carter]

You don't plan on living until 80?


Not really

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

and eventually all that crap will freeze again

[ShadowBoxing]

and eventually all that crap will freeze againafter humanity is dead and gone

[Slipknot]

Not really
That's a good goal to shoot for in life... I guess. :confused:

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

isn't the average lifespan like 75ish?

[Arkady Rossovich]

Damn humans,due to the overuse of natual elements and population overcrowedment..look at what is going to happen.That is not natural,the caps are not ment to melt for billions of years,and now look at it.In less than 100 years they can be gone..beauty will be gone.

America will be around 40% flooded,Russia will have a regular climate,and lower North America,Italy,Greece,northern Africa will become rainforests.The climate change is pushing weather currents downward.

[Slipknot]

isn't the average lifespan like 75ish?
77 possibly... but not shooting to hit 80 in life? Come on... I know many who reach 80 and above. Also, I would assume he would start to see it all happening around him in his later years in life anyways.

[ShadowBoxing]

isn't the average lifespan like 75ish?yeah but its only that low because of the obesity problem

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

yeah but its only that low because of the obesity problem
and yet it's still a lot higher than it used to be, it's not like the himalayas or anything though

[The Question]

Oh, and if (God forbid) I die before then, my kids (after I get married, get her pregnant, and they're born) are still ****ed. I feel bad for my sperm cells. :(

[JokerFish]

Thats why you should use em up

[ShadowBoxing]

and yet it's still a lot higher than it used to be, it's not like the himalayas or anything thoughwe could still stop eating so damn much though...and ya know also stop melting the ice caps that would be nice

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

we could still stop eating so damn much though...and ya know also stop melting the ice caps that would be niceWell, since I'm not obese, can't blame me, I also don't drive, can't blame me there either. I think more people are getting cancer too, which isn't really related to obesity. Why stop melting the ice caps? I think the earth should just do what it's going to do, it's happened before, it'll happen again. The ocean will rise like it did before.

[ShadowBoxing]

Well, since I'm not obese, can't blame me, I also don't drive, can't blame me there either. Why stop melting the ice caps? I think the earth should just do what it's going to do, it's happened before, it'll happen again. The ocean will rise like it did before.Right but it took a few billion years the first time around. We shortened the next cycle to Millions, that pretty bad

[KingOfDreams]

I know many who reach 80 and above.

Yeah. My family has a history of long lifespans. My grandmother will turn 90 this year I believe and my great-grandfather lived to be 95 and my other surviving grandparents are well into thier 80s. I guess that's why I'm kind of amazed that the average life expectancy is so low...since many of the people around me have broken it by quite a few years.

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

Right but it took a few billion years the first time around. We shortened the next cycle to Millions, that pretty bad
It doesn't really matter to me, this hasn't happened so many times that you can say how fast or slow it's supposed to be. I think we'll eventually die out and none of it will matter.

[JokerFish]

Penguins are so cute.........too bad there gonna infest NY by then

[ShadowBoxing]

Penguins are so cute.........too bad there gonna infest NY by thenPenguins are cute....we will move them to Mars when we colonize it...and then proceed to f*** that planet up. I mean if Earth is our home and we did this to it...imagine when we move in someone else's place:O

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

Penguins are cute....we will move them to Mars when we colonize it...and then proceed to f*** that planet up. I mean if Earth is our home and we did this to it...imagine when we move in someone else's place:O
Mars is dead, we can't **** it up.

[Dew k. Mosi]

Whew, Los Angeles will be fine

[Kritish]

Arctic ice cap melting away

September 30, 2005



THE Arctic ice cap could disappear completely, well before the end of the century as a result of global warming, US scientists have warned.

The Arctic ice shelf has melted for the fourth straight year to its smallest area in a century, driven by rising temperatures that appear linked to a build-up of greenhouse gases.

If the shrinking trend continues at its present rate of 8 per cent a year, there could be no ice at all at the pole as early as the summer of 2060.

The extent of Arctic sea ice varies naturally, but researchers from the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre and NASA, which produced the new data, said there were strong indications that human-induced global warming was at least partially responsible. "It's still a controversial issue, and there's always going to be some uncertainty because the climate system does have a lot of natural variability, especially in the Arctic," said Mark Serreze of NSIDC, who led the research, "but I think the evidence is growing very, very strong that part of what we're seeing now is the increased greenhouse effect."



Sea ice cover in the Arctic, which does not boast a continental land mass like Antarctica, always shrinks to its lowest point in September, at the end of the northern hemisphere summer. For each of the past four years, satellite data has shown a substantial reduction in ice extent during this period.

On September 21, the average size of the cap had dropped to 5.31 million square kilometres -- the lowest in satellite records that stretch back to 1978.

Less accurate historical records indicate the latest low is unprecedented for more than a century. The area now covered by ice is 20 per cent lower than the average from 1978 to 2000.

"September 2005 will set a new record minimum in the amount of Arctic sea ice cover," Dr Serreze said. "It's the least sea ice we've seen in the satellite record, and continues a pattern of extreme low extents of sea ice which we've seen for the past four years."

Julienne Stroeve, one of his colleagues, said: "Considering the record low amounts of sea ice this year leading up to the month of September 2005 will almost certainly surpass 2002 as the lowest amount of ice cover in more than a century."

The decline is particularly worrying as it has the potential to create a feedback effect that accelerates global warming. Sea ice reflects much of the sun's heat back into space, while the ocean beneath absorbs it, so shrinking cover will raise temperatures still further. Reuters, The Times



Aw who needs it........fockin polor bears

[The Lumberjack]

The ocean will only be 2 hours away. By that time, I could go to the beach and, you know.....not swim.:(

[Kritish]

It will be easier to cross the continets by boat...

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

Whew, Los Angeles will be fine
not really,eventually los angeles and san diego will be up by seattle and then keep going higher, say goodbye to any good weather you might've had

[Hobgoblin]

here are a few maps of the new coastlines when the caps melt

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/earthnoice.jpg
http://www.agen.ufl.edu/~chyn/age2062/lect/lect_29/40_17.GIF

Got any more of these maps for the rest of the world?

[Dew k. Mosi]

I'll be dead by then, so hey, as long as its nice while I live

[Gamma Ray]

I'll let my kids worry about it. :up:

[Man-Thing]

I live in Tennesse, it looks as though TN will get some coastlines out of the this. That will be good for tourism.

[Man-Thing]

The Tennessee Pensinsula. That has a nice ring to it.

Looks like rebuild LA is a waste if this is gonna happen.

[C.F. Kane]

Is anybody going to actually seriously consider doing something, ANYTHING, to at least slow this process down?

Government regulation of of auto companies regarding their product's fuel efficiency? National speed limit? Ban on aerosols? Law on smog reduction? (I've heard about spending breaks to factories that pollute less, but no actual laws that I've heard of)

I'm at the very least riding a bike and using public transportation.

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

The Tennessee Pensinsula. That has a nice ring to it.

Looks like rebuild LA is a waste if this is gonna happen.It's a waste anyway, no matter what kinds of levees they bring in there, there will be another major hurricane and it will all have been a huge waste of money.

Is anybody going to actually seriously consider doing something, ANYTHING, to at least slow this process down?

Government regulation of of auto companies regarding their product's fuel efficiency? National speed limit? Ban on aerosols? Law on smog reduction? (I've heard about spending breaks to factories that pollute less, but no actual laws that I've heard of)

I'm at the very least riding a bike and using public transportation.I don't much see the point in delaying the inevitable but yea, maybe people could do something.

What about speed limit? people waste more gas sitting in traffic, we should make our roads like the autobahn. The rest sound good but I also think we should do something about cows and their methane production. :o The government seems to be going more toward hydro cars, hybrids, and electric anyway, so that's something.

As for the map, Florida has just as good of chance as getting consumed by a massive sinkhole since it's comprised entirely of limestone.

[Holly Goodhead]

Haha, Chicago is safe. :)

[C.F. Kane]

I live in DC, so I'll be gone...


And I spent a good portion of my life in Holland, and if sea levels rise, that's the first thing that's gonna go...

so not only will I be dead, but also pretty much all of my family and all of the friends that I've ever known

Why are people joking about this, then? :down :mad:

[ShadowBoxing]

I'll be dead by then, so hey, as long as its nice while I livewhat you forget is that this is not happened the minute the clock strikes 2060. by 2030 this process will be halfway through

[C.F. Kane]

What about speed limit? people waste more gas sitting in traffic, we should make our roads like the autobahn. The rest sound good but I also think we should do something about cows and their methane production. :o The government seems to be going more toward hydro cars, hybrids, and electric anyway, so that's something.

As for the map, Florida has just as good of chance as getting consumed by a massive sinkhole since it's comprised entirely of limestone.

Good point about the gas. Wasn't our highway system based on the Autobahn?

Oh well, looks like I'll never go back to Disney World again.

[TheAlmightyFuzz]

you should replace "will be" with "could be" :up:

Good point about the gas. Wasn't our highway system based on the Autobahn?

Oh well, looks like I'll never go back to Disney World again.I think it was actually.

Disney World might be the first to go if they keep building all that junk in such a small area.

[Corinthian™]

here are a few maps of the new coastlines when the caps melt

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/earthnoice.jpg
http://www.agen.ufl.edu/~chyn/age2062/lect/lect_29/40_17.GIF
if deep south texas is ****ed.. then My town is ****ed also

[Gamma Ray]

I hope Neverland Ranch remains in tact. :(

[RizEternal]

Well, this will only lead to Detroit becoming a bigger city. And then we can improve it, by doing what Chicago did. Picking a nice 5 mile squared area to protect and police, and letting the rest go to hell.

[punishermax]

here are a few maps of the new coastlines when the caps melt

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/earthnoice.jpg
http://www.agen.ufl.edu/~chyn/age2062/lect/lect_29/40_17.GIF

Cool, shorter drive from Wisconsin to a beach,sweet. :up:

[Winter Spleen]

Sooo what's the likely hood of this happening?

[Winter Spleen]

I wonder what this will do to the economy. :confused:

[RizEternal]

Who cares, we'll just conquer Canada to get the extra land back.

Europe will probably be screwed harder than us.

[capnkirk_1701]

i got a hybrid! so screw yeselfs ya penguin killers ARGH!!!!!

[capnkirk_1701]

yOU WILL NOT CONQUER CANADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ocelot]

Who wants to live till they are 80, not me. Plus if the ice caps do melt, it will at least take the Yankees and Red Sox with it, and then Chicago is no longer the Second City. Too bad I wont be around but I will be laughing.

[Flame on!]

Got any more of these maps for the rest of the world?
What are you talking about, don't you know that America is the world?

[Ballistic Liz]

Alberta will rule North America! YAY!!

[Guyverjay]

Everyone mock and jokes. lets face it noone really cares. BUT when the sword of damocles finally hits people are gonna be crying like little babies bwhaahahaaaaaaaaaa
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/mmiliard/mr_burns.gif

[black_dust]

i`ll be ok i live on a hill;)

[Erzengel]

No!! Not America's wang.

[Equint77]

I'll be dead in 10 years.. with no kids to worry about.

Life is made!

[Hobgoblin]

Haha, Chicago is safe. :)

Yup. :D :up:

But seriously, this sucks hard if true. :(

[Backdrifter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD1dnP_k8Yc&mode=related&search=

I want to hear the naysayers.

[JLBats]

Will the Reptilians survive said Ice Age?

[Backdrifter]

I dunno. But, I don't think there is any solution that can solve this issue. Humanity should be prepared to accept massive casulties in next 100 years. Its gonna get really really hot...and then its gonna get really really really really cold. The earth is about to hit the reboot button this shes about to overheat. I guess we can try to draw it out by being more responsible with our energy consumption.

[Alpha and Omega]

That's an interesting bit.

I know I should probably discuss what was said, but is it just me, or were you annoyed by the change in the muscial score that was being played? It was almost as if it was done intentionally to screw with how I perceived what was being said.

Well, that and the accents.

[Axid]

Good thing I'll be dead by then :confused: :up:

[Reptile]

Will the Reptilians survive said Ice Age?
:eek:I hope we do!!!!

[Backdrifter]

Good thing I'll be dead by then :confused: :up:
Wonderful logic. You have no intrest in preserving the human race?

[Spidey-Bat]

Wonderful logic. You have no intrest in preserving the human race?
The human race has 6.5 billion members. Plus it's not really a species worth preserving :o.

[Kmack]

It'll suck to be alive then:down

[Spider-Bite]

this worries me.

[Spider-Bite]

if we drive ourselves to extinction than I guess we don't deserver to continue. we will get what we as a whole deserve I guess. that's why Star Trek's prime directive is so good. the species that don't deserve to live long enough to acheive interstellar travel don't, and the ones that do will. that way destructive species don't destroy the galaxy.

[Spidey-Bat]

Watched the video, it doesn't finish. The evidence he suggests that had humans not caused the climate to increase temperature, we'd be approaching an ice age.

[Spider-Bite]

Watched the video, it doesn't finish. The evidence he suggests that had humans not caused the climate to increase temperature, we'd be approaching an ice age.

wrong, it says that the temperature would be roughly the same as it was a century ago.

[Spidey-Bat]

The green line looked like it was going down to me :confused:

[Backdrifter]

No thats not what happens before an Ice Age. The temperature spikes up and then plummets. He clearly stated outside of human influnences, the global temperature would have remained realtively the same into the next 50 years.

[Backdrifter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKJ2fu_Gluo&mode=related&search=

[Backdrifter]

Its a shame more people don't care about the fate of the human race.

[enterthemadness]

Will the Reptilians survive said Ice Age?

I will or one of my clones will. Then I'll or Mr. Clone will kick some Reptillians candy ass. :mad:

[Corinthian™]

here I'm allowed everything all of the time :confused:

[Cyclops]

Its a shame more people don't care about the fate of the human race.

There's a difference between not caring and not caring in order to spite those of us who shove moral superiority in everyone's faces.

You're doing just as much as everybody else to plummet us into an Ice Age, are you gonna change your ways to slow it down?

[Carter]

I'll be dead, who cares

[War Lord]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD1dnP_k8Yc&mode=related&search=

I want to hear the naysayers.

could you doomsayers make up your minds.

First you tell us that we're going to fry through global warming, so I buy a bathing suit and now you're telling us we're going to freeze.


My suitcase can't hold enough clothes for all possible scenarios.

[Backdrifter]

could you doomsayers make up your minds.

First you tell us that we're going to fry through global warming, so I buy a bathing suit and now you're telling us we're going to freeze.


My suitcase can't hold enough clothes for all possible scenarios.\
Lol. So when is the part where you disprove the scientific evidence?

[Backdrifter]

There's a difference between not caring and not caring in order to spite those of us who shove moral superiority in everyone's faces.

You're doing just as much as everybody else to plummet us into an Ice Age, are you gonna change your ways to slow it down?
Of course I'm gonna change my ways. I wouldn't point this **** out if I wasn't. Christ, we are talking about the end of humanity here. Scuse me for giving 2 ****s.

[Batty for Bats!]

Its some old guy. As as statistics show - old guys don't know what the f*** they are talking about. :D

Our only hope is to burrow deep down. Near the core, where it's still warm that the Machines can't get to us.:up:

[Batty for Bats!]

Of course I'm gonna change my ways. I wouldn't point this **** out if I wasn't. Christ, we are talking about the end of humanity here. Scuse me for giving 2 ****s.The male chromosone is breaking down. Its only natural for us to eventually go extinct. I say "Who gives a ****?":(

[Electrix]

Its all about money. People dont want to do anything because it will effect their bank balance.

I think of it that changing a few things in your life is cheaper than re-building your house after its been destroyed by a hurricane.

[Holly Goodhead]

Youre telling me this when its 95 degrees outside..

[TrailerCues]

Officials tracking the approach of the peak hurricane season told President Bush on Monday that data linking a series of devastating storms to global warming was inconclusive.

Eleven months after Hurricane Katrina wreaked havoc on the U.S. Gulf Coast and caused catastrophic flooding in New Orleans, Bush visited the National Hurricane Center in Florida, a state often battered by hurricanes.
Showing Bush the maps and other devices used to predict storms, Max Mayfield, the hurricane center's director, said one question he is asked often is whether the powerful hurricanes of the past few years, like Katrina, Rita and Wilma, were the result of the earth's warming.
A scientist at the center, Christopher Landsea, told Bush there was "not a consensus" linking the two.
Hurricane and climate scientists outside the government have been wrestling with that debate as well. Many environmental groups are upset with Bush for his rejection of the Kyoto agreement to cut greenhouse gases.

Many climate scientists believe carbon dioxide and other gases trap heat like the glass walls of a greenhouse and cause global warming. Skeptics doubt people affect global climate change and say temperature fluctuations have occurred throughout history.
Bush came under scathing criticism for the botched federal response to Hurricane Katrina, which hit on August 29 and killed 1,300 and displaced hundreds of thousands.
The White House is eager to show that the president has learned lessons from that disaster and that the federal government has been thorough in preparing for the possibility of harsh storms this year.
June marked the official start of the hurricane season, but the peak season for the storms is between mid-August and mid-October.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/storm-experts-brief-president-bush/20060731145309990001

[U.S War Machine]

I don't want another repeat of May 3rd, 1999

[Arkady Rossovich]

Some of the people in the United States dont belive in Global Warming.It seems another Katrina is needed to beat the truth into them.

[Prodigy]

Today was the hottest day of the year so far for Indiana, and I made an off comment, "damn you global warming! hurricanes, heat, humidity..." One of the guys on my tour said "It's just cycles of weather." This was the point it really struck me that some people truly don't think global warming is real or is affecting our climate. Now, I realize that it was a hot day because of the particular conditions in my region... but still, to deny global warming at this point is just ludicrous.

I honestly believe climate change as a result of human actions will continue to bring bigger storms and worse conditions for the world.

[jaguarr]

Some of the people in the United States dont belive in Global Warming.It seems another Katrina is needed to beat the truth into them.

Thanks for wishing death and destruction on an entire nation because some of the people there don't necessarily believe the argument for global warming. Mighty benevolent of you. :up:

jag

[Darkdd]

Well,warmer climate=warmer seas=stronger huuricanes.

[Tangled Web]

Thanks for wishing death and destruction on an entire nation because some of the people there don't necessarily believe the argument for global warming. Mighty benevolent of you. :up:

jag
He isn't wishing death to anyone he's saying that Katrina should have made people realize that Global Warming is a real thing. It probably is going to take something big to make people realize that this is a real thing, even after that the mytles of the country are going to pretend it doesn't exist.

[Man-Thing]

http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalmoney/story/0%2C%2C1834973%2C00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1

Pretty interesting.

[Extromaniac]

Global warming is a natural part of the worlds cycle. I don't see what everyone's making a fuss about. :o

[Rambo, John J]

Global warming is a natural part of the worlds cycle. I don't see what everyone's making a fuss about. :o


Not current global warming. The current trend is a direct result of mans own actions and is decidedly unnatural.

[Tangled Web]

Not current global warming. The current trend is a direct result of mans own actions and is decidedly unnatural.
Rambo is right, the carbon dioxide build up from the gas in cars and other thing has built up in the earth's atmosphere causing rays to heat the earth and get trapped under the polution build up.

[bulok]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=551271

[Hooligan32]

Yeah, anyone who is doing anything to help the environment is an idiot:rolleyes: How dare people insult Man-Thing so by bringing such things as global warming to our attention.


Hey, Neanderthal, wether or not you believe in it don't you think it might be better to take some steps to protect our earth or does that cut into your "getting fat on geneticaly enhanced food and driving Hummers" time? Some people are ignorant as ****.

[E. Bison]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Bane_Lily/dialog-vega2.gifGlobal warming is a myth like bigfoot, female orgasms, and eskimos!!

[Reader]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Bane_Lily/dialog-vega2.gifGlobal warming is a myth like bigfoot, female orgasms, and eskimos!!

In Canada we actually live comfortably with all three.

[E. Bison]

In Canada we actually live comfortably with all three.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Bane_Lily/vega_laughing.gifHAHAHAHAHAA! HILARIOUS!! NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU TELL ME THE BOOGY MAN IS REAL!!

[Under The Rose]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Bane_Lily/vega_laughing.gifHAHAHAHAHAA! HILARIOUS!! NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU TELL ME THE BOOGY MAN IS REAL!!
He is. he touches you at night

[redmarvel]

I always the a combine was a grain harvester.... I think it would be pretty painful to live inside one.

Things we CAN all do to help slow down global warming (I doubt if it can be stopped at this point):

1. Drive gas powered vehicles as little as possible (bike, walk, use electrical vehicles)

2. Use gas powered tools as little as possible (Hubby and I have a battery powered electric lawn mower, not only is it cheaper to run, it is also quieter and doesn't stink up the air when you use it)

3. Do proper maintenance on you gas powered objects. A car that is running rough creates more pollution. Likewise lawnmowers, hedge trimmers, etc. They all need regular maintenance (yearly at a minimum). Filters, spark plugs, transmissions etc should all be taken care of and replaced if necessary.

4. If you use heating or air conditioning, try to keep the temperature just within your comfortable range. Air Conditioning at 24C, Heating at 21C

5. Don't build fires and use your BBQ minimally. If you have a fire, use artificial fire logs, they have less soot & smoke.

[TheSumOfGod]

According to the latest research, global warming is caused by increased solar activity, and not industrial pollution, as previously thought. Sure, the pollution destroys the environment and makes it more difficult to breathe, but solar flares are to blame for our atmosphere heating up, so there's really nothing we can do about it, apart from hoping that the sun calms down eventually. :o

[Ronny Shade]

or placing a giant mirror where the ice mass at the north pole used to be

[Danalys]

i want to live in a portable bio sphere type thing. i have a design i could use. it would also double as a vehicle.

[Rambo, John J]

According to the latest research, global warming is caused by increased solar activity, and not industrial pollution, as previously thought. Sure, the pollution destroys the environment and makes it more difficult to breathe, but solar flares are to blame for our atmosphere heating up, so there's really nothing we can do about it, apart from hoping that the sun calms down eventually. :o


The earth (and indeed the solar system) have always gone through cycles waxing and waning solar activity, but this latest incidence of global warming - when compared to previous 'increased solar activity' periods is unprecedented. Human industry at the very least has aggravated the effect that natural solar activity has had on the environment and atmosphere. Bottom line, human activity has greatly hampered the earth's own natural defences against solar activity, to the extent that the earth as a singular biosphere will not recover for many years, if at all.

[Ronny Shade]

i want to live in a portable bio sphere type thing. i have a design i could use. it would also double as a vehicle.
can I buy one?

[TheSumOfGod]

The earth (and indeed the solar system) have always gone through cycles waxing and waning solar activity, but this latest incidence of global warming - when compared to previous 'increased solar activity' periods is unprecedented. Human industry at the very least has aggravated the effect that natural solar activity has had on the environment and atmosphere. Bottom line, human activity has greatly hampered the earth's own natural defences against solar activity, to the extent that the earth as a singular biosphere will not recover for many years, if at all.

Yeah, deteriorating the planet's immune system wasn't a very good idea. Damn you GM Motors! :mad:

[Rambo, John J]

Any new research on August 3rd SoG? I'm somewhat morbidly curious as to what happens in Israel in the next couple of days.

[TheSumOfGod]

Any new research on August 3rd SoG? I'm somewhat morbidly curious as to what happens in Israel in the next couple of days.

Not really. If it happens, it happens, and I'll be back here on Sunday with an "I TOLD YOU SO!" thread. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, and I'll be back here on Sunday with an "I was wrong (about the prediction and ONLY about the prediction), I admit it" thread.

But right now, it seems Israel is trying to piss off Syria even more. And they also seem to be targeting Red Cross ambulances in Lebanon...

[sinewave]

http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalmoney/story/0%2C%2C1834973%2C00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1

Pretty interesting.

good read. thanks, mr. man-thingy! :up:

[X-Punisher]

I use compact floresent lightbulbs, which save energy and I have a lot of plants in my front yard which help convert CO2 into oxygen. So yeah I'm doing my part. I'm also trying to save up for a Hybrid.

[War Lord]

http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalmoney/story/0%2C%2C1834973%2C00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1

Pretty interesting.

I think the word in the title should be commune.

A combine, at least in North America, is a threshing machine that gathers grains.

It left me asking why I would want to live in such a machine.

[TrailerCues]

Rare, mother-of-pearl colored clouds caused by extreme weather conditions above Antarctica are a possible indication of global warming, Australian scientists said on Tuesday.

Known as nacreous clouds, the spectacular formations showing delicate wisps of colors were photographed in the sky over an Australian meteorological base at Mawson Station on July 25.


Australian Antarctic Division scientist Andrew Klekociuk said such clouds are occasionally produced by air rising over Arctic and Antarctic mountains in high polar latitudes during winter.


"You have to be in the right part of the world in winter, and have the sun just below your horizon to see them," he said.
Nacreous clouds can only form in temperatures lower than minus 112 Fahrenheit.


Meteorologist Renae Baker said a weather balloon in the vicinity of the clouds in the stratosphere about 12 miles above the Earth's surface measured temperatures as low as minus 124.6 F.


"That's about as cold as the lowest temperatures ever recorded on the surface of the Earth," Baker, who photographed the clouds, said in a statement.

Klekociuk said the rarely seen clouds, also known as polar stratospheric clouds, were more than just a curiosity.


"They reveal extreme conditions in the atmosphere, and promote chemical changes that lead to destruction of vital stratospheric ozone," he said.
Klekociuk said temperatures in the stratosphere, between 5 and 31 miles above Earth, would be expected to drop as global warming increases. Data collected over the past 25 years had reflected this, he told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.


"Over that time there has been a small decrease in temperature and that change is actually occurring faster than the warming at the surface of the Earth," he said.


The delicate cloud colors are created at sunset when fading light passes through tiny water-ice crystals blown along on strong jets of stratospheric air.


She said winds at the same height were measured blowing at almost 143 mph.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/extreme-conditions-create-rare-antarctic/20060802105109990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Bat Attack]

Cool. Literally.

[The IronMan]

that is cool

[Super Flight]

wow, i'd like to see a picture of them

[Super Flight]

found a pictures

http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/highsky/images1/cu2.jpg

[Super Flight]

http://www.roast.iconbar.com/graphics/galleries/clouds/pix/nacreous08.jpg

[Super Flight]

http://www.photodesk.iconbar.com/tut/pix/rbl/Pic25.jpg

[Super Flight]

another one

http://www.wunderground.com/data/wximagenew/g/gislepa/17.jpg

[Bat Attack]

neat. :up:

[Super Flight]

yea thats somthing i'd really like to see my self

[Man-Thing]

Curse You Global Warming And Your Pretty Clouds!!!

[Mr.Census]

Ah, I love global warming!

[Holly Goodhead]

found a pictures

http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/highsky/images1/cu2.jpg

too cute

[ang_hulk]

if global warming ends this planet,its be a little easier to deal with if thats what the coulds looked like that day.

[Sentinel X]

Global warming is getting worse by the day. Scientist have even found grass growing in antartica, a place with sparce vegetation. As far as myself Ive realized that temperature has been rising gradually each year. There are heat waves in plenty of areas across the globe and in florida(where Im at) theres a hurricane warning practically every week

People also seems to forget that global warming is a global effect. Not only will there be terrible floods and hurricanes off the coast, but there will also be an enormous increase in temp,tornadoes, crops will die, disease vectors will flourish,ect.

Now political leaders are trying to close their eyes and pretend this isn't real. They are disclaiming global warming although scientist are still talking about it. What pisses me off is that they dont even do global warming awareness programs or anything. The majority focus on oil and war and arent smart enough to notice that it doesnt matter cause global warming will screw us all up pretty soon if we dont do anything. Thank God for the hybrid cars, hopefully that can help but by the time they are in mass production and practically everyone gets one it might be too late.

:(

[Sentinel X]

wtf, come on?...No one care about Global Warming here either? :cmad:

[Under The Rose]

wtf, come on?...No one care about Global Warming here either? :cmad:
No thats why im producing carbon emitions from my computer by being on the internet

[Alpha and Omega]

It's only a problem when it's an election year; there's only a hypothetical solution when you need a campaign slogan.:o

[sinewave]

I thought global warming was only a liberal myth, like the torture of detainees at gitmo and hurricane katrina?

[War Lord]

Grass growing on the Antarctica? Oh noes!!

Mars is also warming up. Why aren't you concerned about that?

[bored]

People have convinced themselves, by repeating at ad nauseam, that global warming is supposedly a myth created by environmentalists. Why this myth would exist has yet to be explained.

A few at least acknowledge, btw, but deny human involvement.

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Grass growing on the Antarctica? Oh noes!!

Mars is also warming up. Why aren't you concerned about that?mmm...'cause we don't f***ing live there.

[bored]

Grass growing on the Antarctica? Oh noes!!

Mars is also warming up. Why aren't you concerned about that?


Case in point.

[War Lord]

mmm...'cause we don't f***ing live there.

Now that grass is growing there, we could.

[Mr. Thing]

mmm...'cause we don't f***ing live there.

Exactly.

[Cyclops]

Global warming happens. Is it because of our pollution? Maybe. Is it because of the globe's natural cycles? Maybe. Probably a bit more likely, who knows?

[Mr.Webs]

I really do wish that global warming would be more of an issue with politicians, because it is something that should be considered extremely important. No matter what, the human species will eventually die out...all animals do. But that doesn't mean that we can't slow it down.:up:

[Darth Elektra]

Global warming is happening, Thankfully Al Gore is bringing a little light in the world!

[War Lord]

I really do wish that global warming would be more of an issue with politicians, because it is something that should be considered extremely important. No matter what, the human species will eventually die out...all animals do. But that doesn't mean that we can't slow it down.:up:

However, slowing it down might prove to be the wrong thing to do. Many scientists believe that we're over due for an ice age and stopping global warming could bring that on faster.

[Mr.Webs]

Hmmmm....where did you read that? I'm interested now.

[TheSumOfGod]

So, the choice is in between a new Ice Age or continued Global Warming? Would you rather cook alive or freeze to death?

[Darthphere]

Al Gore invented the internet, and global warming.

[Matt]

Because in all reality we will be dead before global warming really matters. Hell, three generations from now will be dead before global warming really matters.

[sinewave]

However, slowing it down might prove to be the wrong thing to do. Many scientists believe that we're over due for an ice age and stopping global warming could bring that on faster.

War Lord, do you believe that humans have helped to accelerate the rate of global warming through their use of fossil fuels, as the scientific community has stated?

[War Lord]

Hmmmm....where did you read that? I'm interested now.

I've read it in several scientific magazines. The geological record has shown that the earth has gone through many periods of cooling and heating.

On average, we're about 2,500 years overdue for a new ice age, apparently.

[Kaleb]

I see Al Gore has joined he hype, sorry about your unsuccesfull elections a few yrs back Al.

[Mr.Webs]

Because in all reality we will be dead before global warming really matters. Hell, three generations from now will be dead before global warming really matters. And why is that?

[War Lord]

War Lord, do you believe that humans have help to accelerate the rate of global warming through their use of fossil fuels, as the scientific community has stated?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031218075443.htm

Mars is also warming up, so the sun is a factor in how warm our planet is getting. Perhaps, big picturewise, it may be the only factor that really matters.

However the real question is, how much of a factor is man in warming up the globe. If the factor is huge, than we should do something, but if it's really small than there isn't anything we really can do.

[Sentinel X]

Now that grass is growing there, we could.I dont care if mars is warming up cause we dont live there :confused:
...secondly, Im pretty sure grass isnt growing in antartica...but if it is can you like give me a link or something, cause I have never heard of grass growing in freakin mars

Because in all reality we will be dead before global warming really matters. Hell, three generations from now will be dead before global warming really matters.Not true, Global Warming happens faster than you think.Population increases 80 mil a year globally, the more people the more fossil fuels used that harms our ecosystem in everyway.

[Tangled Web]

Global warming is a huge problem. Ignoring it will result is etreme onditions that will kill many.

[Carter]

I'll be dead before it matters. I don't care, I'm not planning on procreating anyway.

[War Lord]

I dont care if mars is warming up cause we dont live there :confused:

The point is that if both planets are warming up, than man cannot be the main cause for the warming on earth, because he doesn't do much on Mars.

[Spider-X]

Global warming is happening, Thankfully Al Gore is bringing a little light in the world!

:up:

i saw an inconvenient truth, i'm a moderate and a skeptical bastard...and this is an important movie...it's not Liberal Propaganda like some fruitloops claim...it's not even a very political movie.

it's an important movie and it establishes that global warming is very real and if we (the goverment) doesn't start laying down some good legislation and funding for alternative energy sources that aren't gonna drowned us...we are gonna be f#cked within 50 years.

[Spider-X]

and quick question...WHO HERE ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT GLOBAL WARMING REALLY IS AND HOW IT IS CREATED AND GETTING WORSE?

show of hands please...

[Tangled Web]

The point is that if both planets are warming up, than man cannot be the main cause for the warming on earth, because he doesn't do much on Mars.
Well, Mars does use the same sun we do. You know the sun that is absorbing all of our man made chemicals and pollution.

[bored]

I've read it in several scientific magazines. The geological record has shown that the earth has gone through many periods of cooling and heating.

On average, we're about 2,500 years overdue for a new ice age, apparently.


So, based on history, we should've had one over two-thousand years ago (this doesn't take into account the relatively recent 'mini ice age'). How does that support your basically implying that another one would be good?

[X-Punisher]

Global warming is a huge problem. Ignoring it will result is etreme onditions that will kill many.


Tell that to the oil companies that REALLY make the laws in this country.

[Spelunking Man]

Tell that to the oil companies that REALLY make the laws in this country.

And tell that to the consumers who made the demands. Power plants use fuel sources to generate electricity, in the process releasing heat to the atmosphere, which ultimately distributing electricity to consumers and to the manufacturing industry based on the demand of the day.

In all, we are also accountable, not only those greedy oil corporations. However, for the sake of our economic survival, we tend to close one eye on environmental issues. So does politicians in that regard.

[Spider-Bite]

I'll be dead before it matters. I don't care, I'm not planning on procreating anyway.

chances are you probably wont be dead before it matters since it's already having an effect on ecosystems and warming the oceans so hot that hurricanes are much stronger than they would be.

and your attitude about not caring because it wont effect you doesn't say anything good about you either. do you care if children across the world get molested or is that simply not your problem, because you wont be effected?

[Arkady Rossovich]

Global warming is getting worse by the day



wtf, come on?...No one care about Global Warming here either? :cmad:

Global Warming is a problem that the world is talking about,except the United States.The USA would have to cut its consomption and emitions by half,dont expect that to happen.

But when the ocean levels rise,the American seaboard will rise,millions will drown and the USA will become a smaller,weaker country.

[U.S War Machine]

They want to melt us

[E. Bison]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Bane_Lily/dialog-vega3.gifYou guys are overreacting. There is no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris got cold so he turned up the sun. That's all. Just wait till he gets to warm.

[HUMAN]

Global warming is a fraud. It's just another fear campaign. Anybody ever remember the mammoths having oil refineries when the ice age hit? Nope!

They're basing global warming off of only 200 years worth of weather recording.

[hippie_hunter]

Global warming is getting worse by the day. Scientist have even found grass growing in antartica, a place with sparce vegetation. As far as myself Ive realized that temperature has been rising gradually each year. There are heat waves in plenty of areas across the globe and in florida(where Im at) theres a hurricane warning practically every week

People also seems to forget that global warming is a global effect. Not only will there be terrible floods and hurricanes off the coast, but there will also be an enormous increase in temp,tornadoes, crops will die, disease vectors will flourish,ect.

Now political leaders are trying to close their eyes and pretend this isn't real. They are disclaiming global warming although scientist are still talking about it. What pisses me off is that they dont even do global warming awareness programs or anything. The majority focus on oil and war and arent smart enough to notice that it doesnt matter cause global warming will screw us all up pretty soon if we dont do anything. Thank God for the hybrid cars, hopefully that can help but by the time they are in mass production and practically everyone gets one it might be too late.

:(

Yes global warming is a threat and yes humans are indeed a reason for it. But people also tend to ignore the fact that global warming is also a natural process. The threat of global warming, while it does exist, is waaaaaay overrated.

[bored]

Global warming is a fraud. It's just another fear campaign. Anybody ever remember the mammoths having oil refineries when the ice age hit? Nope!

They're basing global warming off of only 200 years worth of weather recording.


Are you serious?

[Tangled Web]

Global warming is a fraud. It's just another fear campaign. Anybody ever remember the mammoths having oil refineries when the ice age hit? Nope!

They're basing global warming off of only 200 years worth of weather recording.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Sentinel X]

The point is that if both planets are warming up, than man cannot be the main cause for the warming on earth, because he doesn't do much on Mars.1.Although it isnt certain most scientist hypothesis that if there was a change in Earths temp humans would outweigh the cause over a flaw in the milankovich cycle(sp).

2. That being said, because both planets are warming up doesnt mean we dont have to take action and try to help the environment. What if it isnt only orbital patterns and we find this out a little too late...It wouldnt hurt to try to stop it.

Yes global warming is a threat and yes humans are indeed a reason for it. But people also tend to ignore the fact that global warming is also a natural process. The threat of global warming, while it does exist, is waaaaaay overrated.

An ice age is a natrual process, and its inevitable. Global Process occurs natrually but it can happen unnatrually too, say the greenhouse effect, Im pretty sure thats not natrual

[redmarvel]

Let's pretend for just a moment that Global Warming is not happening...

We still have a MAJOR problem with pollution that we need to do something about. In Toronto, every year, we have more and more "smog advisory" days (try not to go outside, try not to use gas powered equipment, try not to use BBQ's, if you must go outside do not do anything "strenuous", etc.) Worse yet the "smog cloud" is getting bigger. In the 80's you could drive an hour out of Toronto and be free of it. In the 90's you had to go 2 hours. Now even 3 hours away you are not free of the smog cloud (though it is not as big). These smog clouds are over every major metropolis in North America. How can we get rid of them?

1. Hybrid vehicles (which are being over-priced by the car companies, they don't want to sell them - there's an independent movie out there on the subject)
2. Photovalic Cells & Wind Generators (the governments should help people install both on their homes & businesses, give us a tax rebate if we do it)
3. Green space (the governments should insist that a certain amount of land in every building development be allotted to trees, grass and plants. If the developers want to they can even put the green space on TOP of the buildings.)

And if the Smog and amount of Tar Top are contributing to global warming... guess what, you'll have started to solve that problem too.

It won't solve the additional problems about the amount of mercury appearing in fish, nor the number of polluted lakes out there. However, if the water sewage system were to install charcoal filters in their "dumping" systems, guess what, some of that would start to go away to. Why don't they? Because it's not "cost effective", and there is no profit to be made in cleaning it up before it goes into the lakes/rivers/oceans. It's cheaper and easier for them to clean it up when they pull it out (but of course that means the fish and crustaceans and waterfowl all get contaminated).

[sinewave]

people may try and dispute the seriousness of global warming, but there's no disputing the fact that excessive carbon dioxide is exacerbating the greenhouse effect which is increasing the temperature here on earth. fossil fuels pay a huge part in that.

[War Lord]

Well, Mars does use the same sun we do. You know the sun that is absorbing all of our man made chemicals and pollution.

Yeah, I know the sun.

The one that is causing global warming.

[War Lord]

So, based on history, we should've had one over two-thousand years ago (this doesn't take into account the relatively recent 'mini ice age'). How does that support your basically implying that another one would be good?

I never said another ice age would be good, but if we're over due for one, slowing it down through global warming is a good thing for humans, because moving from all those northern climes is just so inconvenient.

[War Lord]

Global warming is a fraud. It's just another fear campaign. Anybody ever remember the mammoths having oil refineries when the ice age hit? Nope!

They're basing global warming off of only 200 years worth of weather recording.

I remember 20 years ago when they produced all these films of how we were killing our planet through garbage and chemicals.

We're still here and we'll deal with global warming.

[War Lord]

Global Warming is a problem that the world is talking about,except the United States.The USA would have to cut its consomption and emitions by half,dont expect that to happen.

But when the ocean levels rise,the American seaboard will rise,millions will drown and the USA will become a smaller,weaker country.

Well isn't that what all the lefties want, a smaller weaker US?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Well, Mars does use the same sun we do. You know the sun that is absorbing all of our man made chemicals and pollution.

Wo Wo Wo....the sun is absorbing our pollution?
That is some potent-ass pollution!:eek:

[War Lord]

1.Although it isnt certain most scientist hypothesis that if there was a change in Earths temp humans would outweigh the cause over a flaw in the milankovich cycle(sp).

2. That being said, because both planets are warming up doesnt mean we dont have to take action and try to help the environment. What if it isnt only orbital patterns and we find this out a little too late...It wouldnt hurt to try to stop it.

3. An ice age is a natrual process, and its inevitable. Global Process occurs natrually but it can happen unnatrually too, say the greenhouse effect, Im pretty sure thats not natrual

1. A hypothesis is not a scientific fact.

2. We don't know if what we do will actually help the planet or hurt it. It would be better to get more data before doing some half-assed effort that has unintended consequences.

3. You're pretty sure, but sureness is not a fact.

[War Lord]

people may try and dispute the seriousness of global warming, but there's no disputing the fact that excessive carbon dioxide is exacerbating the greenhouse effect which is increasing the temperature here on earth. fossil fuels pay a huge part in that.

I dispute it and so does many scientists.

http://www.climateark.org/articles/2001/3rd/scdipopu.htm

[HUMAN]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Great debate! :rolleyes:

[Sentinel X]

1. A hypothesis is not a scientific fact.

2. We don't know if what we do will actually help the planet or hurt it. It would be better to get more data before doing some half-assed effort that has unintended consequences.

3. You're pretty sure, but sureness is not a fact.
1.Okay, so same can be said for the flaw in orbital patterns.Of course some scientist will debunk Global Warming, only because some of the government try not to strike fear but if most scientist are proclaiming that global warming will happen due to the greenhouse effect then it would benifit people to start thinking about the topic

2.Um no, using less fossil fuel or whatever causes a by-product of CO2,methane, and other harmful gases WILL help the environment. Its not a half-assed effort for people to use less of these deadly gases :rolleyes: These gases are depleting the atmosphere, the ozone layer has a huge hole in it, things like these will make it easier for meteors to enter Earth, which arises a whole new problem

3.Okay, when i said that there are two sides to it. The greenhouse effect can be natrual sometimes but at theres also an advanced greenhouse effect caused by humans. At the rate of change in our environment the greenhouse effect occuring now is all but natrual

I dispute it and so does many scientists.

http://www.climateark.org/articles/2...d/scdipopu.htm
False...The article title itself debunks that

[sinewave]

I dispute it and so does many scientists.

http://www.climateark.org/articles/2001/3rd/scdipopu.htm

so, two scientists, from that bastion of critical thinking known as kansas, pull more weight than the rest of the entire scientific community? it seems like you just seek out info that backs your opinions, rather than actually looking for the truth.

just this statement alone: "Our climate changes all the time and in both directions," Gerhard said. "A thousand years ago, we were a lot warmer.", contradicts the study released just weeks ago by the scientific community that the earth is warmer now than it's been in 2000 years.

this is all that you need to know about these bozos: "The book was published by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, based in Tulsa, Okla."

:down

[Hobgoblin]

The politicians dont care because the public (by and large) doesnt care. If the people made global warming a priority, then thier leaders would have to listen. Unfortunately, the general public is too lazy and ignorant to recycle, use fuel effecient cars, etc.

[War Lord]

so, two scientists, from that bastion of critical thinking known as kansas, pull more weight than the rest of the entire scientific community? it seems like you just seek out info that backs your opinions, rather than actually looking for the truth.

just this statement alone: "Our climate changes all the time and in both directions," Gerhard said. "A thousand years ago, we were a lot warmer.", contradicts the study released just weeks ago by the scientific community that the earth is warmer now than it's been in 2000 years.

this is all that you need to know about these bozos: "The book was published by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, based in Tulsa, Okla."

:down

It's more scientists than that. From polls I've read, about 20% of scientists disagree with the global warming mindset.

[Mr.Census]

I like how you guys talk about science as if you know everything there is to know about our world, or universe.

For example did you know there is technology RIGHT NOW, on this earth that would allow humans an access to infinite amounts of free energy, to travel among the stars, to end global warming, but it is being kept back by governments who have invested in other technologies...

[sinewave]

It's more scientists than that. From polls I've read, about 20% of scientists disagree with the global warming mindset.

Based on that article, I'd say your judgment is lacking. I'm sure it's much fewer than 20% and even if it isn't I bet if you scrutinized those scientists who disagree with the rest of the scientific community you'd find they have significant ties to the oil industry as well.

[amazingfantasy15]

2.Um no, using less fossil fuel or whatever causes a by-product of CO2,methane, and other harmful gases WILL help the environment. Its not a half-assed effort for people to use less of these deadly gases :rolleyes: These gases are depleting the atmosphere, the ozone layer has a huge hole in it, things like these will make it easier for meteors to enter Earth, which arises a whole new problem

So the ozone layer also works as a "Star Wars" for meteors?!?! If we can get space shuttles to exit and enter the earth's atomsphere I have a hard time believing a meteor will bounce off the atomsphere because of the ozone layer.

[bored]

Well isn't that what all the lefties want, a smaller weaker US?


Jonty, just stop. You never seem to have a grasp on ANY subject you thrust yourself into, and you always eventually break it down into some assumption about liberals that contributes nothing at all to the discussion. It may be easier on you if this just turns into a flame war, but that doesn't mean everyone else wants it dumbed down.

[bored]

So the ozone layer also works as a "Star Wars" for meteors?!?! If we can get space shuttles to exit and enter the earth's atomsphere I have a hard time believing a meteor will bounce off the atomsphere because of the ozone layer.


Earth's atmosphere causes most meteors to burn away into almost nothing due to friction. Nothing about 'bouncing off'.

[Tangled Web]

Yeah, I know the sun.

The one that is causing global warming.
No, not the sun, the pollution that we make that goes into the sun.

[War Lord]

No, not the sun, the pollution that we make that goes into the sun.

Uh, the sun is about 93 million miles in the middle of space. There is no real connection between the earth and sun. Any pollution that might have left earth gets dissipated into space.

[Tangled Web]

Uh, the sun is about 93 million miles in the middle of space. There is no real connection between the earth and sun. Any pollution that might have left earth gets dissipated into space.
Uh, the pollution that we produce gets stuck in the atmosphere and causes a wall that traps the suns rays onto the earth.

[War Lord]

Uh, the pollution that we produce gets stuck in the atmosphere and causes a wall that traps the suns rays onto the earth.

Now I'm confused.

You were talking about the sun and now you're talking about the sun rays.

Make up your mind.

[Spider-Bite]

1. A hypothesis is not a scientific fact.

2. We don't know if what we do will actually help the planet or hurt it. It would be better to get more data before doing some half-assed effort that has unintended consequences.

3. You're pretty sure, but sureness is not a fact.

so let me get this straight. it's perfectly okay to pollute the planet when your not "sure" whether it will help or hurt the planet, but it's not okay to stop polluting when your not "sure" whether that will help or hurt the planet?:confused:

[Spider-Bite]

I dispute it and so does many scientists.

http://www.climateark.org/articles/2001/3rd/scdipopu.htm

I lived in Kansas for a year. the majority of the people there honestly did not know what evolution was, and I didn't meet a single person who believed it. a lot of people didn't know what DVD players were. this was just 3 years ago.

That place is extremely conservative. and some politicians have rescently begun to use money to currupt science.

[sinewave]

Now I'm confused.

You were talking about the sun and now you're talking about the sun rays.

Make up your mind.

I think TW just got some of the phrasing mixed up. If I'm not wrong, I think TW is explaining that carbon dioxide is being trapped within the Earth's atmosphere and therefore it's acting as insulation where the heat from the sun is being trapped within the atmosphere and not being allowed to disperse into space and is thus, having a heating effect on the Earth.

[Tangled Web]

I think TW just got some of the phrasing mixed up. If I'm not wrong, I think TW is explaining that carbon dioxide is being trapped within the Earth's atmosphere and therefore it's acting as insulation where the heat from the sun is being trapped within the atmosphere and not being allowed to disperse into space and is thus, having a heating effect on the Earth.
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[Spider-Bite]

Uh, the sun is about 93 million miles in the middle of space. There is no real connection between the earth and sun. Any pollution that might have left earth gets dissipated into space.


without the sun we would all die, and the earth wouldn't have anything to orbit.

our atmostphere traps gasses, it doesn't let them out. the hole in the O-zone allows more UV rays into our atmosphere, where as the O-zone filters them out. it can't do as good a job, because the whole is bigger than texas, and we created it.

[sinewave]

I lived in Kansas for a year. the majority of the people there honestly did not know what evolution was, and I didn't meet a single person who believed it. a lot of people didn't know what DVD players were. this was just 3 years ago.

That place is extremely conservative. and some politicians have rescently begun to use money to currupt science.

yup. this article is a joke. these "scientists" were proven shills for the oil industry. war lord, like the rest of the global warming skeptics, doesn't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

[sinewave]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

No problem. :up:

[Spade]

Well, I might as well put my feelings about this topic here. On an off-topic tie-in...has anyone here heard of White Wilderness? It's a Disney film that I feel is very similar to the global warming mindset. For those of you who haven't seen it, I'll highlight the reason I'm using it as an example- in the film, the claim is made that lemmings are sometimes found to commit mass suicide. For years no one disputed it; I can still find a few books that cite White Wilderness as the recorded example of how this lemming effect works. Then, the Disney corporation revealed a little tidbit about that film segment...it was faked to add content to the film. In short, they pushed the lemmings straight off a cliff and videotaped it.

Now that I've said that, I hope where I'm coming from is a bit more apparent. Essentially, science has become the hand that pushes us off the cliff, and we the lemming who drowns for the greater design. Everyone asks me the same question when I say this- "but if science is made to create progress, why would they ever want to inflate what you call a non-existent threat?" Simple. The money from grants doesn't grow on a money tree somewhere in Harvard. To get these grants to do the research that we so dutifully believe goes to a greater good of repairing a natural planetary lifestyle one must submit interesting findings. As posters before me have said, they submit a hypothesis. It is through this process that a hypothesis is contorted into a fact, and when the people trust you your facts become theirs.

In a nutshell- the Earth has been around much longer than any of us. No one here seems to understand the near-perfect cycle it upkeeps to maintain our way of life. If the Earth only got slightly closer in planetary distance, we would feel the heat of our nearby star acutely. The Earth has been naturally creating this buildup over the years. 'Greenhouse gases' are hogwash excuses- the amount of hazardous material one volcano can let off is infinitely more massive than the pollutants we accumulate over decades. And yet you don't see our ozone layer scattering to the winds when an eruption occurs. It's the same cycle of decay and rebirth that the Earth goes through all the time to maintain the perfect balance.

There is nothing wrong with the Earth or global warming. It's just that over a few thousand years the Earth has managed to support a race that actually gives a hoot as to what it's been doing since water first splashed onto it's bedrock.

[War Lord]

so let me get this straight. it's perfectly okay to pollute the planet when your not "sure" whether it will help or hurt the planet, but it's not okay to stop polluting when your not "sure" whether that will help or hurt the planet?:confused:

Nobody is saying it's ok to pollute the planet.

The issue is how much of the global warming is really do to man.

[sinewave]

Well, I might as well put my feelings about this topic here. On an off-topic tie-in...has anyone here heard of White Wilderness? It's a Disney film that I feel is very similar to the global warming mindset. For those of you who haven't seen it, I'll highlight the reason I'm using it as an example- in the film, the claim is made that lemmings are sometimes found to commit mass suicide. For years no one disputed it; I can still find a few books that cite White Wilderness as the recorded example of how this lemming effect works. Then, the Disney corporation revealed a little tidbit about that film segment...it was faked to add content to the film. In short, they pushed the lemmings straight off a cliff and videotaped it.

Now that I've said that, I hope where I'm coming from is a bit more apparent. Essentially, science has become the hand that pushes us off the cliff, and we the lemming who drowns for the greater design. Everyone asks me the same question when I say this- "but if science is made to create progress, why would they ever want to inflate what you call a non-existent threat?" Simple. The money from grants doesn't grow on a money tree somewhere in Harvard. To get these grants to do the research that we so dutifully believe goes to a greater good of repairing a natural planetary lifestyle one must submit interesting findings. As posters before me have said, they submit a hypothesis. It is through this process that a hypothesis is contorted into a fact, and when the people trust you your facts become theirs.

In a nutshell- the Earth has been around much longer than any of us. No one here seems to understand the near-perfect cycle it upkeeps to maintain our way of life. If the Earth only got slightly closer in planetary distance, we would feel the heat of our nearby star acutely. The Earth has been naturally creating this buildup over the years. 'Greenhouse gases' are hogwash excuses- the amount of hazardous material one volcano can let off is infinitely more massive than the pollutants we accumulate over decades. And yet you don't see our ozone layer scattering to the winds when an eruption occurs. It's the same cycle of decay and rebirth that the Earth goes through all the time to maintain the perfect balance.

There is nothing wrong with the Earth or global warming. It's just that over a few thousand years the Earth has managed to support a race that actually gives a hoot as to what it's been doing since water first splashed onto it's bedrock.

interesting theory, but i'll stick with the experts on this topic.

[Spade]

interesting theory, but i'll stick with the experts on this topic.

How is it a 'theory'? Every hole in the ozone that we have found has been naturally repaired over the course of time. We know for a fact that the Earth has been replenishing the ozone layer and cooling/ heating itself for eons. That isn't so much theory as it is scientific fact, one that most scientists choose to avoid.

[sinewave]

How is it a 'theory'? Every hole in the ozone that we have found has been naturally repaired over the course of time. We know for a fact that the Earth has been replenishing the ozone layer and cooling/ heating itself for eons. That isn't so much theory as it is scientific fact, one that most scientists choose to avoid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

[Spade]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

1) The Wiki can be written by anyone and is often mired by POV.

2) If you're going to believe what's available on an online encyclopedia that praises the fact that anyone can edit it, then you have no qualms about this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

[sinewave]

i linked it as a quick response. call it laziness. i still don't buy your theory that the scientific community got together and agreed on this topic just to bilk more money from unsuspecting rubes.

[Spade]

i linked it as a quick response. call it laziness. i still don't buy your theory that the scientific community got together and agreed on this topic just to bilk more money from unsuspecting rubes.

I'm not saying it's done vindictively by every member of the scientific community, just that one shouldn't blindly believe the variables they put out and then simply chalk it all up to global warming. If you stripped the argument down to the bulk emissions that humans create and stack them against the bulk emissions that the Earth has naturally produced upon itself without simply lumping both statistics into the same category you can see that even if we consciously wanted to destroy the atmosphere with greenhouse gases it would take a tremendous amount more time than what the scientific community's stance expects us to believe.

And yet we still blindly pay them for their findings. Hence my conclusion that we don't know whether this 'research funding for the truth' is misused, let alone if the products of their musings are 100% accurate to the situation at hand.

[sinewave]

I'm not saying it's done vindictively by every member of the scientific community, just that one shouldn't blindly believe the variables they put out and then simply chalk it all up to global warming. If you stripped the argument down to the bulk emissions that humans create and stack them against the bulk emissions that the Earth has naturally produced upon itself without simply lumping both statistics into the same category you can see that even if we consciously wanted to destroy the atmosphere with greenhouse gases it would take a tremendous amount more time than what the scientific community's stance expects us to believe.

And yet we still blindly pay them for their findings. Hence my conclusion that we don't know whether this 'research funding for the truth' is misused, let alone if the products of their musings are 100% accurate to the situation at hand.

i'm on to your scheme now. you're just trying to get me to do more reading, aren't you? :mad:

[Spade]

i'm on to your scheme now. you're just trying to get me to do more reading, aren't you? :mad:

I wouldn't call it "scheme"...more along the lines of an "evil mastermind plot". ;)

[Spider-Bite]

1) The Wiki can be written by anyone and is often mired by POV.

2) If you're going to believe what's available on an online encyclopedia that praises the fact that anyone can edit it, then you have no qualms about this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

they have a staff which reviews every change visitors to the site make. The staff edits it for truthfullness. The theory of evolution has been corrected by staff members 1 million times in the last couple years, because a lot of religous fanatics go in there and try to mess with it.

some topics get fixed quicker than others. if you make an unjust change on the topic of evolution expect it to be fixed within minutes. if you make a change to a movie, then expect it to be changed in a days, possibly weeks.

[Tangled Web]

How is it a 'theory'? Every hole in the ozone that we have found has been naturally repaired over the course of time. We know for a fact that the Earth has been replenishing the ozone layer and cooling/ heating itself for eons. That isn't so much theory as it is scientific fact, one that most scientists choose to avoid.
Yeah, that was when the main powers of the world decided it was a problem and did something about it. Notice how the US is the only major country who hasn't ratified the Kyoto protocal?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Kyoto_Protocol_participation_map_2005.png/800px-Kyoto_Protocol_participation_map_2005.png

[HUMAN]

So... can nobody explain what happened with the ice age? Was that a natural event or one caused by ancient oil refineries and Taco Bell cups on the side of the road?

[Corinthian™]

So... can nobody explain what happened with the ice age? Was that a natural event or one caused by ancient oil refineries and Taco Bell cups on the side of the road?
stop being an idiot. The Ice age was something natural it happened. What we are doing here is not stoping anything, we are killing the environment.

I will pay you 10 bucks if you go to a place with high smog concentration and tell me it's not damaging our environment

[Spade]

Yeah, that was when the main powers of the world decided it was a problem and did something about it. Notice how the US is the only major country who hasn't ratified the Kyoto protocal?

...You do know that the major powers usually do so unwillingly as a method of appeasing fanatics, and that in the example you provide the entire continent of Australia is against the treaty as well? No one seems to be blaming the Outback for greenhouse emissions. Even if it is dwarfed by our own emissions, one has to admit that they are indeed present in other places and that other countries have decided to revoke the protocol.

So... can nobody explain what happened with the ice age? Was that a natural event or one caused by ancient oil refineries and Taco Bell cups on the side of the road?

One cannot explain the Ice Age until one comes to the realization that not every single form of pollutant the human race creates is contained within the grounds of the ozone layer. Another misconception is that air quality is irrevocably connected to the thinning of the ozone layer, when it is only trace amounts of chemical residue from the pollution that rise up to the atmosphere while still retaining their ozone-depleting qualities. By what modern science would have us believe, everything under the sun damages the ozone layer beyond repair.

[Corinthian™]

...You do know that the major powers usually do so unwillingly as a method of appeasing fanatics, and that in the example you provide the entire continent of Australia is against the treaty as well? No one seems to be blaming the Outback for greenhouse emissions. Even if it is dwarfed by our own emissions, one has to admit that they are indeed present in other places and that other countries have decided to revoke the protocol.



One cannot explain the Ice Age until one comes to the realization that not every single form of pollutant the human race creates is contained within the grounds of the ozone layer. Another misconception is that air quality is irrevocably connected to the thinning of the ozone layer, when it is only trace amounts of chemical residue from the pollution that rise up to the atmosphere while still retaining their ozone-depleting qualities. By what modern science would have us believe, everything under the sun damages the ozone layer beyond repair.
I love it how people think that modern science wants you to believe everything they want you to and disregard the fact that modern science does is proving facts.

[Tangled Web]

...You do know that the major powers usually do so unwillingly as a method of appeasing fanatics, and that in the example you provide the entire continent of Australia is against the treaty as well? No one seems to be blaming the Outback for greenhouse emissions. Even if it is dwarfed by our own emissions, one has to admit that they are indeed present in other places and that other countries have decided to revoke the protocol.


Fanatics? What is fanatical about wanting to save the planet? Australie doesn't have the power to fix this. The United States of America does. We need to use that power to do the right thing. Many smaller nations are doing there part. We are the piece that can do it if we cooperate.
Yeah, emissions are being produced elsewhere but those places realize that and ratified the Kyoto protocol.

[Corinthian™]

how dense can you be to not understand that we are doing serious damage to our environment.

[Tangled Web]

how dense can you be to not understand that we are doing serious damage to our environment.
These people aren't rational. They are under the impression that scientists made this up. May I ask, why would scientists do that?

[Spade]

Fanatics? What is fanatical about wanting to save the planet? Australie doesn't have the power to fix this. The United States of America does. We need to use that power to do the right thing. Many smaller nations are doing there part. We are the piece that can do it if we cooperate.
Yeah, emissions are being produced elsewhere but those places realize that and ratified the Kyoto protocol.

'What's fanatical about saving the planet'? That's on heck of a non-biased approach. What's fanatical about it is when one is so enamored with the idea that they refuse to see that the holes in the ozone layer we have discovered and detected have naturally repaired themselves and reallocated to areas where there is no pollution or pollutant build-up. And this isn't in the matter of decades, it's in a matter of years. The damage is far from being irreparable, and in most cases the ozone-depleting material we have examined have no link to human-ejected emmisions at al. Some refuse to see this, and go into the territory of the zealot to get their message out by connecting all ozone-depleting materials to us. The only reason I have ever seen the international community do anything is out of pressure otherwise, and even if the facts are incorrect if there are enough misinformed people screaming all at once politicians will do what they need to do to stay in office.

These people aren't rational. They are under the impression that scientists made this up. May I ask, why would scientists do that?

I'm perfectly rational, and have done my research into both the theory and proponent. This is not the first time that science has validified nonsense under the guise of 'the truth'. There are plenty of occasions where information that was never really cited for validity was taken as the truth'. Look at the catalyst that science claimed created the Ice Age- a giant asteriod. Nowadays science doesn't sing that tune, instead saying massive fires killed vegetation (without ruining the ozone, mind you) that the dinosaurs digested. I still have yet to see a flawless measurement of how much pollution in the atmosphere is done moreso from the human race.

[Corinthian™]

'What's fanatical about saving the planet'? That's on heck of a non-biased approach. What's fanatical about it is when one is so enamored with the idea that they refuse to see that the holes in the ozone layer we have discovered and detected have naturally repaired themselves and reallocated to areas where there is no pollution or pollutant build-up. And this isn't in the matter of decades, it's in a matter of years. The damage is far from being irreparable, and in most cases the ozone-depleting material we have examined have no link to human-ejected emmisions at al. Some refuse to see this, and go into the territory of the zealot to get their message out by connecting all ozone-depleting materials to us. The only reason I have ever seen the international community do anything is out of pressure otherwise, and even if the facts are incorrect if there are enough misinformed people screaming all at once politicians will do what they need to do to stay in office.
do you know WHY they repaired? Or WHY the ozone layer got damaged to the point it became a hole?

[Tangled Web]

^^^^
It was damaged because we damaged it. The ozone got fixed because we fixed it.

[HUMAN]

stop being an idiot. The Ice age was something natural it happened. What we are doing here is not stoping anything, we are killing the environment.

But a threat of global warming is another ice age. So, I'm asking, why can the world naturally carry out this event, but when we see it in our day and age we must create a fear campaign to scare people with blatently wrong issues. We don't know the weather of 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago, or 3000 years ago. This could be just normal shifts in the climate. Nobody has yet to give me a reasonable answer to my question yet, and that goes to show that these things do happen without our exhaust or cigarette butts.

I will pay you 10 bucks if you go to a place with high smog concentration and tell me it's not damaging our environment

It's not. May be damaging to your lungs, though.

Greenhouse gas is a fraud.

[bored]

A fraud? What makes you say that?

[Arkady Rossovich]

Global warming is a huge problem. Ignoring it will result is etreme conditions that will kill many.

Why is it that so few people take this seriously?Its denial,but its good that someone agrees and fears it.

Well isn't that what all the lefties want, a smaller weaker US?

Of course,with the USA smaller the rest of the world can just smack the USA away with no effert.But dont think America would stop,it might take over Canada to reclaim some more land or extend its reach.

people may try and dispute the seriousness of global warming, but there's no disputing the fact that excessive carbon dioxide is exacerbating the greenhouse effect which is increasing the temperature here on earth. fossil fuels pay a huge part in that.

True,using fossil fuels does not harm anything.But too much of it is being used,there has to be consumption and limits.

[Backdrifter]

Ya'll need to quit arguing about the casue and start discussing the EFFECTS. Im sure that humans have had a hand in global warming. There is no way around that one. The amount of carbon that we pump into the air is astonishing and there is no way you can deny that we are affecting global climates. However, I am also sure that the sun is part of the big picture as well. What do we need to do? Obviously we need to stop ****ing polluting. There is nothing detrimental that can come out of responsible waste disposal. We also need to stop using oil as our main source of energy. The very thing that is causing us to warm up can also give us all the power that we will ever need. I don't want to hear anything about the technology not being there. If you put some money into research and development for solar engery we will guarenteed produced something that will work for everyone...and the great thing about technology is we are always improving it. We NEED to do this. We also need to start planning ahead for this ice age. Global Warming can and should be the thing that unites humanity and brings world peace. We are talking about survival of the ****ing human race here. This is the most important thing that has happened to humans since we have come into existance. If we can not find the means to save ourselves than we do not deserve to continue on in the first place.

[HUMAN]

A fraud? What makes you say that?

What was the forecast on May 7, 245 in mid-western United States?

What was the forecast on September 12, 300 BC in eastern Australia?

Don't know? Well, neither does the rest of the global warming community. Those days could have been the hottest the world has ever seen and we would never know about it.

Natural disasters and weather changes happen naturally. It happened with the ice age, and it can happen again. It doesn't take human effort to make it happen. Nature will run it's course. Global warming is nothing more than another grand fear campaign.

Tell you what. How about we just let the UN take over our national forests and reserves so they can protect us from the sun. Let's see how that one works out.

Qui bono?

[Backdrifter]

What was the forecast on May 7, 245 in mid-western United States?

What was the forecast on September 12, 300 BC in eastern Australia?

Don't know? Well, neither does the rest of the global warming community. Those days could have been the hottest the world has ever seen and we would never know about it.

Natural disasters and weather changes happen naturally. It happened with the ice age, and it can happen again. It doesn't take human effort to make it happen. Nature will run it's course. Global warming is nothing more than another grand fear campaign.

Tell you what. How about we just let the UN take over our national forests and reserves so they can protect us from the sun. Let's see how that one works out.

Qui bono?
Man you are clueless. It's not a fear campaign if it is acutally ****ing happening. Do you understand what an ICE AGE entails? It is really ****ing serious. Humans have NEVER faced something like this before. It IS something be scared for. People like you who roll their eyes at the problem and brush it off as a fear campaign will be the downfall of the human race. I just pray that there are more intelligent people who are able to see the BIG picture istead of getting caught up in the political bull**** of it. For someone whos moniker is HUMAN, you sure seem to not give a **** about the very survival of the name itself.

[Spider-Bite]

It's not. May be damaging to your lungs, though.

Greenhouse gas is a fraud.

waht about the lungs of the animals which make up the ecosystem which make up the environement? Why are species dropping off left and right? why does the fossil record say that in this century the fastest mass extinction of all time has started?

good thing were at the top of the food chain:down

that was a sarcastic remark. the top is the worst place to be during a mass extinction.

[Spider-Bite]

Originally Posted by War Lord
Well isn't that what all the lefties want, a smaller weaker US?


lefties are big government. righties call it big bad government intervention. yes it is true that a lot of lefties want to lower government spending, but that is only because Bush put us in a huge giant deficit and spent too much money.

aren't we the supporters of social economics? with big government interference? laws restricting pollution and protecting the envirnoment? the ones who want to intervene econimically while conservatives want the government to stay out of it?

[HUMAN]

Man you are clueless. It's not a fear campaign if it is acutally ****ing happening. Do you understand what an ICE AGE entails? It is really ****ing serious. Humans have NEVER faced something like this before. It IS something be scared for. People like you who roll their eyes at the problem and brush it off as a fear campaign will be the downfall of the human race. I just pray that there are more intelligent people who are able to see the BIG picture istead of getting caught up in the political bull**** of it. For someone whos moniker is HUMAN, you sure seem to not give a **** about the very survival of the name itself.

Did I ever say that the fate of human civilization shouldn't be a concern? NOPE!

I'm merely stating that weather changes whether if we have an input or not. We are not the cause in mother nature (or God). These changes will happen when cosmic laws dictate them to happen.

Should we set up a contingency plan incase such a disaster should strike? Absolutely. Look at New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina.

I'm merely saying that we should stop the tree hugging and realize that human beings aren't the god of this world and we do not have the means to regulate the fury of nature.

I can imagine a day when there is so much environmental red tape that there will actually be a job in government controlled farms where some dude counts cow farts all day long.

[Backdrifter]

Oh and HUMAN....how do we know the world climate before the last 200 years? Its called Paleoclimatology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoclimatology

Why don't you do some ****ing reading before you act like you know everything there is to know about global climate change. Remember, you do not, in fact, have a degree in climatology, or anything remotley similar so maybe you should read before you speak.

[HUMAN]

It's amazing. Instead of debating the facts you merely have **** in a lot of your posts and call people names. How edumacated you must be... :rolleyes:

When you can hold a civil conversation, I'll discuss serious matters with you. Come back with your big boy attitude next time. Until then, stand in the corner.

[Backdrifter]

The IPCC said in its Second Assessment Report (SAR) in 1995 that "the balance of evidence suggests that there is a discernible human influence on global climate". Note that "balance of evidence" is not intended to suggest unambiguous proof; it is a reference to the standards of proof required in English civil law (balance of evidence) as opposed to criminal law (beyond reasonable doubt). This statement was strengthened in the Third Assessment Report (TAR) in 2001, in which the IPCC said:

* "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities."
* "In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations [1]."


In 2005 the national science academies of the G8 nations and Brazil, China and India, three of the largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the developing world, signed a statement on the global response to climate change. The statement stresses that the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action [2], and explicitly endorsed the IPCC consensus.


In 2001 the Committee on the Science of Climate Change of the National Research Council published Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions [3]. This report explicitly endorses the IPCC view of attribution of recent climate change as representing the view of the science community:

The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue. [4]

The summary begins with:

Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact, rising. The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century. (ibid.)


Yeah, I mean its just a fear campaign, right?

[Backdrifter]

It's amazing. Instead of debating the facts you merely have **** in a lot of your posts and call people names. How edumacated you must be... :rolleyes:

When you can hold a civil conversation, I'll discuss serious matters with you. Come back with your big boy attitude next time. Until then, stand in the corner.
Lol. Give me a break. You don't have anything to back up what you say man. You just spout **** because you do not want to believe in the facts. Its like a ****ing landslide victory for Global Warming in the scientific community. What are they like twiddling their thumbs thinking they can take over the world or something? Please.

[Backdrifter]

The American Meteorological Society (AMS) statement adopted by their council in 2003 said:

There is now clear evidence that the mean annual temperature at the Earth's surface, averaged over the entire globe, has been increasing in the past 200 years. There is also clear evidence that the abundance of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased over the same period. In the past decade, significant progress has been made toward a better understanding of the climate system and toward improved projections of long-term climate change... The report by the IPCC stated that the global mean temperature is projected to increase by 1.4 °C–5.8 °C in the next 100 years... Human activities have become a major source of environmental change. Of great urgency are the climate consequences of the increasing atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases... Because greenhouse gases continue to increase, we are, in effect, conducting a global climate experiment, neither planned nor controlled, the results of which may present unprecedented challenges to our wisdom and foresight as well as have significant impacts on our natural and societal systems. It is a long-term problem that requires a long-term perspective. Important decisions confront current and future national and world leaders. [5]

Federal Climate Change Science Program, 2006

On May 2, 2006, the Federal Climate Change Science Program commissioned by the Bush administration in 2002 released the first of 21 assessments which concluded that there is clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols, and stratospheric ozone) [6]. The study said that observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, though it did not state what percentage of climate change may be anthropogenic in nature.

Other organizations

Other scientific organisations who have made position statements on climate change.

* American Geophysical Union position statement on greenhouse gases and climate change
* Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, National Academy of Sciences, Commission on Geosciences, Environment and Resources, (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 2001).
* Joint statement on the Science of Climate Change, issued by sixteen national academies of science from around the world.
* A position paper of the Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London.
* Policy Statement on Climate Variability and Change by the American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)

The Summary Report of the World Climate Change Conference, Moscow, 2003, included: "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has provided the basis for much of our present understanding of knowledge in this field in its Third Assessment Report (TAR) in 2001. An overwhelming majority of the scientific community has accepted its general conclusions that climate change is occurring, is primarily a result of human emissions of greenhouse gases and aerosols, and that this represents a threat to people and ecosystems." [7]

[Backdrifter]

Surveys of scientists

Various surveys have been conducted to determine a scientific consensus on the soundness of global warming theory. It should be noted that scientific consensus is not, by itself, a scientific argument, and is not part of the scientific method; however, the content of the consensus may itself be based on both scientific arguments and the scientific method.
[edit]

Oreskes, 2004

In December 2004, Science published an opinion essay [8] by geologist and science historian Naomi Oreskes [9] that summarized a study of the scientific literature on climate change. The essay concluded that there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. The author analyzed 928 abstracts of papers from refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, listed with the keywords "global climate change". The abstracts were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. 75% of the abstracts were placed in the first three categories, thus either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, thus taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change; none of the abstracts disagreed with the consensus position, which the author found to be "remarkable". It was also pointed out that "authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point."
[edit]

Bray and von Storch, 1996

In 1996 a survey of climate scientists on attitudes towards global warming and related matters was undertaken by Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch. The results were subsequently published in Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Vol. 80, No. 3, March 1999 439-455. [10] The paper addressed the views of climate science, with a response rate of 40% from a mail survey questionnaire to 1000 scientists in Germany, the USA and Canada. Almost all scientists agreed that the skill of models was limited.

The abstract says:

The international consensus was, however, apparent regarding the utility of the knowledge to date: climate science has provided enough knowledge so that the initiation of abatement measures is warranted. However, consensus also existed regarding the current inability to explicitly specify detrimental effects that might result from climate change. This incompatibility between the state of knowledge and the calls for action suggests that, to some degree at least, scientific advice is a product of both scientific knowledge and normative judgment, suggesting a socioscientific construction of the climate change issue.

The survey was extensive, and asked numerous questions on many aspects of climate science, model formulation and utility, and science/public/policy interactions. To pick out some of the more vital topics, from the body of the paper:

The resulting questionnaire, consisting of 74 questions, was pre-tested in a German institution and after revisions, distributed to a total of 1,000 scientists in North America and Germany... The number of completed returns were as follows: USA 149, Canada 35, and Germany 228, a response rate of approximately 40%...

...With a value of 1 indicating the highest level of belief that predictions are possible and a value of 7 expressing the least faith in the predictive capabilities of the current state of climate science knowledge, the mean of the entire sample of 4.6 for the ability to make reasonable predictions of inter-annual variability tends to indicate that scientists feel that reasonable prediction is not yet a possibility... mean of 4.8 for reasonable predictions of 10 years... mean of 5.2 for periods of 100 years...

...a response of a value of 1 indicates a strong level of agreement with the statement of certainty that global warming is already underway or will occur without modification to human behavior... the mean response for the entire sample was 3.3 indicating a slight tendency towards the position that global warming has indeed been detected and is underway.... Regarding global warming as being a possible future event, there is a higher expression of confidence as indicated by the mean of 2.6.

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Survey of US state climatologists

In 1997, Citizens for a Sound Economy surveyed America's 48 official state climatologists on questions related to climate change [11]; of the 36 respondents, 44% considered global warming to be a largely natural phenomenon, compared to 17% who considered warming to be largely manmade.

The survey further found that 58% of the climatologists disagreed with then President Clinton's assertion that "the overwhelming balance of evidence and scientific opinion is that it is no longer a theory, but now fact, that global warming is for real", while only 36% agreed with the assertion. Eighty-nine percent of the climatologists agreed that "current science is unable to isolate and measure variations in global temperatures caused only by man-made factors," and 61% said that the historical data do not indicate "that fluctuations in global temperatures are attributable to human influences such as burning fossil fuels." [12]

Sixty percent of the respondents said that reducing man-made CO2 emissions by 15% below 1990 levels would not prevent global temperatures from rising, and 86% said that reducing emissions to 1990 levels would not prevent rising temperatures. It is not clear whether they mean by this that changing CO2 levels would have little effect on climate (which they expect to continue rising), or if even CO2 at 1990 levels could be expected to lead to more warming. By a 39% to 33% margin, more climatologists say that, "evidence exists to suggest that the earth is headed for another glacial period." [13].

However, being that this study was conducted in 1997, it must be noted that it reflects the opinion of these climatologists in 1997, while there have been numerous statements and publications since then. Citizens for a Sound Economy are also a public-advocacy group whose research has been funded by large corporations, including Enron.
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Other known surveys

* Global Environmental Change Report, 1990: GECR climate survey shows strong agreement on action, less so on warming. Global Environmental Change Report 2, No. 9, pp. 1-3
* Stewart, T.R., Mumpower, J.L., and Reagan-Cirincione, P. (1992). Scientists' opinions about global climate change: Summary of the results of a survey. NAEP (National Association of Environmental Professionals) Newsletter, 17(2), 6-7.
* a 1991 Gallup poll of 400 members of the American Geophysical Union and the American Meteorological Society
o George Will reported "that 53 percent do not believe warming has occurred, and another 30 percent are uncertain."
o Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting states that the report said that 66 % of the scientists said that human-induced global warming was occurring, with 10 % disagreeing and the rest undecided. In a correction Gallup stated: "Most scientists involved in research in this area believe that human-induced global warming is occurring now."
o A 1993 Heartland Institute publication states: "A Gallup poll conducted on February 13, 1992 of members of the American Geophysical Union and the American Meteorological Society - the two professional societies whose members are most likely to be involved in climate research - found that 18 percent thought some global warming had occurred, 33 percent said insufficient information existed to tell, and 49 percent believed no warming had taken place."[14]

[Backdrifter]

You something, I think you're right. It's all made up.

[HUMAN]

Start counting, Stewie.

http://www.wegotcards.com/cards/rude/fart/cow.GIF

[Spider-Bite]

Start counting, Stewie.

http://www.wegotcards.com/cards/rude/fart/cow.GIF

if you'd like to ruin a planet than go find your own. quit trying to destroy mine. It might as well be an act of war. I don't walk in your house and start trashing and polluting the place do I? well quit polluting my air!

[HUMAN]

if you'd like to ruin a planet than go find your own. quit trying to destroy mine. It might as well be an act of war. I don't walk in your house and start trashing and polluting the place do I? well quit polluting my air!

There are 6 billion people on this planet. You gonna wage war with all of them?

So, you don't walk in my house and trash the place, but I walk on your planet and pollute it? Wow, what a god complex.