The Official Writer & Storyline Thread

[TripXyDE]

I dunno if there's already a thread for this news

When it comes to Superman, there are 2 movies to be discussed about--- there's the Man of Steel & the Justice League movie. We're either seeing Superman back on either of those two movies

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Writers' Strike Coming Sooner Than Expected? Bad News For Justice League!
Scribes' walkout could impact dozens of films in development.
by Jeff Giles | October 01, 2007
Blog Article | Discuss Article
Maybe we won't be seeing Justice League of America in the summer of 2009 after all. Matter of fact, a whole slew of movies might be missing their release targets -- including Wolverine, G.I. Joe, The Wolf Man, The Soloist, and the Night at the Museum sequel.

The culprit? Yes, you guessed it, it's that pesky strike stuff again. After looming in the distance for months, strike season is approaching -- and might actually be coming sooner than we'd expected. If you haven't been following the drama, here's what's happening: The studios' contracts with the actors' and directors' guilds expire next June, while the writers' contracts expire at the end of this month. While many had assumed the industry would be facing one big strike next year, it now looks as if the writers will stage their own walkout first.

According to a report published by The New York Times over the weekend, this could affect something like 75 percent of "the almost 150 feature films that are candidates for production by early next year," including Justice League and Another Night, both of which "appear not to have final scripts." From the article:

Barbara Brogliatti, a spokeswoman for the producers' alliance, said the studios had never assumed writers would keep working after the expiration of their contract. "Every studio and every network has contingency plans," she said, and those plans "assume there could be a walkout on Oct. 31."

The studios are still refusing official comment, but all the signs seem to indicate we're going to suffer through some kind of work stoppage before this is over. As the article notes, the entertainment industry's last major strike was the five-month writers' walkout in 1988 -- and those of us who are old enough to remember it might still be nursing a grudge for the havoc it wreaked on television shows such as Moonlighting.

Source: The New York Times

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Got it from
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_of_america/news/1676485/

So if the Justice League movie is being threatened by this news, how much more the supposedly-upcoming MAN OF STEEL

[Matt]

I'm not worried about JLA or any of the 2008-2009 movies. They already have scripts. Any tweaks can be handled by either ghost writers under the table or the directors. What I'm more concerned about is TV and the effect it can have on the new season and some of my favorite shows like 24, Prison Break, Psych, and The Office :csad:

[Super Kal]

the sooner, the better :up:

[Showtime]

I'm not worried about JLA or any of the 2008-2009 movies. They already have scripts. Any tweaks can be handled by either ghost writers under the table or the directors. What I'm more concerned about is TV and the effect it can have on the new season and some of my favorite shows like 24, Prison Break, Psych, and The Office :csad:

My specialty.

[BareKnucklez]

I dunno if there's already a thread for this news

When it comes to Superman, there are 2 movies to be discussed about--- there's the Man of Steel & the Justice League movie. We're either seeing Superman back on either of those two movies

-------------

Writers' Strike Coming Sooner Than Expected? Bad News For Justice League!
Scribes' walkout could impact dozens of films in development.
by Jeff Giles | October 01, 2007
Blog Article | Discuss Article
Maybe we won't be seeing Justice League of America in the summer of 2009 after all. Matter of fact, a whole slew of movies might be missing their release targets -- including Wolverine, G.I. Joe, The Wolf Man, The Soloist, and the Night at the Museum sequel.

The culprit? Yes, you guessed it, it's that pesky strike stuff again. After looming in the distance for months, strike season is approaching -- and might actually be coming sooner than we'd expected. If you haven't been following the drama, here's what's happening: The studios' contracts with the actors' and directors' guilds expire next June, while the writers' contracts expire at the end of this month. While many had assumed the industry would be facing one big strike next year, it now looks as if the writers will stage their own walkout first.

According to a report published by The New York Times over the weekend, this could affect something like 75 percent of "the almost 150 feature films that are candidates for production by early next year," including Justice League and Another Night, both of which "appear not to have final scripts." From the article:

Barbara Brogliatti, a spokeswoman for the producers' alliance, said the studios had never assumed writers would keep working after the expiration of their contract. "Every studio and every network has contingency plans," she said, and those plans "assume there could be a walkout on Oct. 31."

The studios are still refusing official comment, but all the signs seem to indicate we're going to suffer through some kind of work stoppage before this is over. As the article notes, the entertainment industry's last major strike was the five-month writers' walkout in 1988 -- and those of us who are old enough to remember it might still be nursing a grudge for the havoc it wreaked on television shows such as Moonlighting.

Source: The New York Times

-------------------

Got it from
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_of_america/news/1676485/

So if the Justice League movie is being threatened by this news, how much more the supposedly-upcoming MAN OF STEEL

Why are they going on strike again? It's not like these people are poor lol they are making Millions for their work.

[Angeloz]

Why are they going on strike again? It's not like these people are poor lol they are making Millions for their work.

I've heard otherwise. I've heard the majority of writers don't get very much and even the best of them would get less than the directors and definately the big name actors. I'll grant you I'm no expert. But I'll point out you need a good script for it to be a good film. It's essential.

Angeloz

[DrunkSquirrel]

This is true. The writers are not typically getting "millions". As far as films go especially. Many scripts/treatments are sold for a few thousand dollars. Once the script is sold, the writer does not collect ANYTHING on the back-end.

[hammy]

Why are they going on strike again? It's not like these people are poor lol they are making Millions for their work.

Making millions?! Are you crazy? Writers make a tiny fraction of what the directors and actors make. TINY. And they're the most important people as far as I'm concerned. Lots of different actors can play a character and lots of different directors can put together a movie .. but it's all dependent on that one writer who had the creativity and imagination to come up with the idea in the first place.

Grrr ... writers are the most important people and don't get the credit they deserve. :cmad:

[Nightwing1977]

Why are they going on strike again? It's not like these people are poor lol they are making Millions for their work.

Do you really know anything about how much writers make? Writers don't make much as you think. Work for Hollywood as a writer & you'll find out for yourself. Now I know why you're not a writer yet in Hollywood, since you claim last year you can make a better story than Singer. How that going so far now? :whatever:

[wellsy]

I'd say that if WB can't get JL of the ground, then they may have to look at (a delayed) MoS.

That would be the only circumstance that I can see MoS happening in.

[The Marvel]

the sooner, the better :up:
Good for you.


Bad for the hundreds out there who liked the movie, and want to see something exiting and new for the next Superman movie.

[Etienne]

The Strike has already hit some talk shows, expect more talk shows to suffer later.
http://www.nbc10.com/entertainment/14475981/detail.html

[WhatsHisFace]

I already sent my script ideas to WB. They won't use it I'm sure, but it's a decent outline.

[Angeloz]

It takes time to write. They often have a week or sometimes less to write them. So it's easier said then done. That's also assuming that things won't go wrong or actors won't need time off for some reason. It's not a perfect world.

Angeloz

[Clark Kent]

I already sent my script ideas to WB. They won't use it I'm sure, but it's a decent outline.

Wow. Five years. Over 39,000 posts. And banned. That's pretty sad, :(. What the hell did he do?

[Retroman]

From Entertainment Weekly:
Comic-Con: Mike Mignola, Grant Morrison, Matt Fraction and other comics creators convene at EW's Visionaries panel
Jul 25, 2008, 02:36 AM | by Dafna Pleban

Categories: Comic-Con 2008

EW's own Nisha Goplan served as a moderator for the panel consisting of some of the biggest, most creative names in comics today: Jim Lee, John Cassaday, Matt Fraction, Mike Mignola, Robert Kirkman, Colleen Doran, and Grant Morrison. At this kind of event — where news and announcements take a back seat to questions like, "Why do you work in comics?" and "Who inspires you?" — watching these guys interact was half the fun. Whether it was Kirkman needling Morrison about his reading-in-the-bath(tub) habits (Kirkman: "Is that where you wrote Seaguy?") or Morrison asking Doran to go into greater detail about her Aquaman crush (Morrison: "Beard or no beard." Doran: "As long as he's slick.") fans got a chance to experience the personalities behind their favorite books.

Perhaps the most interesting questions had to do with the ways in which recent Hollywood exposure and interest has begun to change the medium itself. Some creators, like Morrison and Fraction, sounded frustrated that many now view comics as merely a stepping stone to film. Fraction pointed out that comics don't need to worry about silly things like physics or reality, so why follow the same cinematic rules? The best question, however, came from the audience: One person asked the panelists who they thought were the up-and-comers to watch; the Luna Bros (Girls), Jonathan Hickman (Nightly News), Jason Aaron (Scalped), and Derek McCulloch (Stagger Lee) were some of the names they offered.

And even though this was not the place for any announcements, a few telling pieces of info did drop:

1. In response to a question about the origin of the infamous six-page splash of the Batcave in All Star Batman and Robin, Jim Lee mentioned that he's working on a similar splash for the Gotham City skyline in a future issue.

2. Speaking of ASBAR, while it was originally planned as an eight-issue miniseries, it will now likely wrap up at 20 issues, Lee mentioned. "See you in five years!" he said.

3. Grant Morrison noted that he pitched a Superman movie last year, but it didn't take.

4. Regarding the next (and last!) issue of Planetary, John Cassaday managed to dodge the question during the panel. Afterward, however, he was overheard telling a fan that he is working on it now, but there are no concrete plans for its release yet.

5. Following a question about whether he would return to penciling after writing for so long, Mike Mignola mentioned that he just finished penciling a comic for the first time in years, but he didn't say what it was.

6. And as to whether or not BPRD and Hellboy will be reunited, the cagey way Mignola said "no" spoke volumes: "I don't see it happening, really, sort of. There's some weird s--- coming up." Take from that what you will.SOURCE:http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/07/comic-con-stan.html

If it's okay with the mods i thought this might deserve it's own thread seperate from the general SDCC thread.

[Matt]

Good. I don't care for Grant Morrison. He is like the Howard Stern of comic writers. He does things simply for the sake of shock value which covers up for the fact that he ain't that talented, yet no one wants to call him on it.

[Mister J]

Other than the revelation that there's still nothing concrete about another Superman project, this doesn't bother me at all. Morrison can be entertaining at times, but he has far too much of an inclination to just do something ...'off'.

We don't need some grand re-imagining of the character to have it succeed at the box office.

[I Am The Knight]

I wonder just "what" WB wants from Superman...

[FlawlessVictory]

^Honestly, I really think they don't know. Just look at how much trouble they have had putting the character back on the big screen since Superman 4. It's amazing they have had such a difficult time with this character.

[Nixon]

I wonder just "what" WB wants from Superman...

Hundreds of millions of dollars.

[I Am The Knight]

^Honestly, I really think they don't know. Just look at how much trouble they have had putting the character back on the big screen since Superman 4. It's amazing they have had such a difficult time with this character.

I know. Sigh.

Hundreds of millions of dollars.

That too.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I've been saying it for a while now, a movie about Superman's constant battles to get on the bigscreen would be far more entertaining than any Superman movie could ever be.

I just think that WB is overthinking it. Just follow the moderen comics and let the director add his little bit of spice and oh yeah....Finally give us a f**king cool ass super battle with a villain. That early 80's obvious wirework fight with dudes in goofy black suits don't cut it anymore nor do Landschemes. Have a big bad ass adventure with the most powerful hero in comicdom. And stop casting Lois based on looks, I have no problem with Bosworth as an actress or person for that matter but she is quite simply wrong for Lois Lane.

I still don't want a sequel and will be annoyed when the press release comes, but if Singer and Bosworth are Holmes'd I'd be laughing with glee all the same.

[bunk]

Good. I don't care for Grant Morrison. He is like the Howard Stern of comic writers. He does things simply for the sake of shock value which covers up for the fact that he ain't that talented, yet no one wants to call him on it.


I like some of his stuff. His All Star Superman run has been excellent.

[charl_huntress]

Hmmmm.....still a lot of talk.

[hippie_hunter]

Good. I don't care for Grant Morrison. He is like the Howard Stern of comic writers. He does things simply for the sake of shock value which covers up for the fact that he ain't that talented, yet no one wants to call him on it.

Morrison is freaking awesome. Who else calls on his fans to go on a massive wankathon :o

[Compi716]

Oh well. I absolutely LOVE All Star Superman, so I'd at least be curious to hear what his pitch was.

[antonydelfini]

If I would make a new Superman franchise, I'd actually like to have the tone of Morrison's All Star Superman. You could actually make dozens of Superman movies out of that all star comic book, and the creativity and imagination is limitless in Morrison's world.

[SatEL]

I like some of his stuff. His All Star Superman run has been excellent.

Its ok but sometimes it's a little whacky, I mean giving Lois a Super suit for her birthday and all. Its more precrisis Superman but hey it has some awesome art work.

[Retroman]

I've been saying it for a while now, a movie about Superman's constant battles to get on the bigscreen would be far more entertaining than any Superman movie could ever be.
Agreed. I think it would be a great documentary.:up:
Oh well. I absolutely LOVE All Star Superman, so I'd at least be curious to hear what his pitch was.
Haven't read All Star Superman but i'd love to know what he pitched. I'm guessing it's a reboot but it could be a sequel since he apparently enjoyed SR (http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=9660129&postcount=68).

[bunk]

Its ok but sometimes it's a little whacky, I mean giving Lois a Super suit for her birthday and all. Its more precrisis Superman but hey it has some awesome art work.

It's supposed to be.

It's also a more intelligent Superman, which I like to see. Lex essentially creates the same Super Suit for himself and boasts about being the only person able to do so, not realizing Superman had already created one for Lois.

[kapow]

sack b singer he does'nt want to do another film. if he did he would just do it but instead he keeps making other films.
if SR was a big hit we would have a new superman film next year but as it did'nt do so well he don't care.
he ran back to do x-men 2 and that i belive was only because xmen1 was a hit.

get richard donnar back see wat he can do with superman i the 21st ctr.
but keep b routh it was the only gud thing abt the film

[GreenKToo]

No to donner. I think thats the last thing they need.

[Kurosawa]

^Honestly, I really think they don't know. Just look at how much trouble they have had putting the character back on the big screen since Superman 4. It's amazing they have had such a difficult time with this character.

Since Miller and Byrne destroyed Superman in the mid-80's, DC has been screaming from the mountaintops that Superman is basically lame, out-of-date and inferior to Batman. Until they rid themselves of all traces of those revisions, Superman has little chance of recovering his rightful position in either the comics or in movies.

They need to revise Supes wayyy back, imo-as in 1938 way back. He needs his swagger restored. Farmboy Clark just doesn't cut it.

[AnimatedFury]

Since Miller and Byrne destroyed Superman in the mid-80's, DC has been screaming from the mountaintops that Superman is basically lame, out-of-date and inferior to Batman. Until they rid themselves of all traces of those revisions, Superman has little chance of recovering his rightful position in either the comics or in movies.

They need to revise Supes wayyy back, imo-as in 1938 way back. He needs his swagger restored. Farmboy Clark just doesn't cut it.
Um, Byrne gave us Mag-Pie so its all good.

[smoothbody]

I've been saying it for a while now, a movie about Superman's constant battles to get on the bigscreen would be far more entertaining than any Superman movie could ever be.

I just think that WB is overthinking it. Just follow the moderen comics and let the director add his little bit of spice and oh yeah....Finally give us a f**king cool ass super battle with a villain. That early 80's obvious wirework fight with dudes in goofy black suits don't cut it anymore nor do Landschemes. Have a big bad ass adventure with the most powerful hero in comicdom. And stop casting Lois based on looks, I have no problem with Bosworth as an actress or person for that matter but she is quite simply wrong for Lois Lane.

I still don't want a sequel and will be annoyed when the press release comes, but if Singer and Bosworth are Holmes'd I'd be laughing with glee all the same.

couldn't agree more!!!

[Compi716]

Since Miller and Byrne destroyed Superman in the mid-80's, DC has been screaming from the mountaintops that Superman is basically lame, out-of-date and inferior to Batman. Until they rid themselves of all traces of those revisions, Superman has little chance of recovering his rightful position in either the comics or in movies.

They need to revise Supes wayyy back, imo-as in 1938 way back. He needs his swagger restored. Farmboy Clark just doesn't cut it.
I thought Byrne gave Superman some real dignity with Man of Steel.

Miller, on the other hand, should be shot for making Supes look like a chump.

[SatEL]

It's supposed to be.

It's also a more intelligent Superman, which I like to see. Lex essentially creates the same Super Suit for himself and boasts about being the only person able to do so, not realizing Superman had already created one for Lois.

Yes I am well aware of that but for film?:huh::huh::huh:, I am sorry but you cant pull of Pre crisis level stunts in a live action Superman film.

[bunk]

Yes I am well aware of that but for film?:huh::huh::huh:, I am sorry but you cant pull of Pre crisis level stunts in a live action Superman film.


Is that what he said, it would be similar to his All Star run? I was just saying I liked the writing on that book, not that it would be a good basis for a movie.

[SatEL]

Is that what he said, it would be similar to his All Star run? I was just saying I liked the writing on that book, not that it would be a good basis for a movie.

No he didnt state that I just assumed that what people meant when they brought up All Star.

[bunk]

Oh, well not me. I was responding to the notion he was a bad writer.

[[A]]

I swear, this is the first place where I see someone criticize Grant Morrison's work. I'm just saying, no one takes this as a Morrison defense :woot:

[Micah12345]

Not a fan of morrison. Glad he was rejected.

I can't wait until his batman run is over.

[MattBearPig]

While I dig Morrison, I think Geoff Johns should write a Superman movie. His run on Action Comics has been stellar so far.

[Nightwing1977]

While I dig Morrison, I think Geoff Johns should write a Superman movie. His run on Action Comics has been stellar so far.

If Johns can't be the writer for MoS, he should be the consult then. Either way would be great. :)

[Motown Marvel]

a script from morrison would have been fantastic. not only is he one of the best writers in comics, but his work on all star superman has been some of the best superman material ever printed in comics. he really understands the character.

i too would like to see geoff johns heavily involved int he script. writing it himself would be ideal.

[The Sage]

a script from morrison would have been fantastic. not only is he one of the best writers in comics, but his work on all star superman has been some of the best superman material ever printed in comics. he really understands the character.

i too would like to see geoff johns heavily involved int he script. writing it himself would be ideal.

Those two working together on a Superman script would be ideal.

[FilmNerdJamie]

One wonders what other comic-book writers made pitches to WB for a Superman sequel...

[fceeviper]

Grant Morrison's Superman Pitch Rejected
Thank god!


Good. I don't care for Grant Morrison. He is like the Howard Stern of comic writers. He does things simply for the sake of shock value which covers up for the fact that he ain't that talented, yet no one wants to call him on it.
Amen brother!

[TheComicbookKid]

Grant Morrison interview talking in general about the idea of Superman.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17626

I can see why he might have liked SR.

[darkseid26]

http://comics.ign.com/articles/902/902292p1.html

Fixing The Superman Film Franchise

A Worthy Set of Villains

This one is a no-brainer. Superman needs someone or something that provides a worthy challenge. We're tired of seeing him rescue planes or stave off natural disasters. We want an actual villain that can match Superman on a physical level. The only time the movies ever got this right was Superman II, where he traded blows with the Phantom Zone criminals. No, the fight with Nuclear Man in Superman IV does not count as "getting it right."

Trading blows is the operative phrase here. If Superman threw a single punch in Returns, we must have slept through it. We want to see him punch Brainiac, Metallo, or Parasite. Heck, a knock-down, drag-out brawl with Doomsday could be pure cinematic glee if handled properly.

The Matrix Revolutions was a pretty lousy movie, but the climactic battle between Agent Smith and Neo gave us a glimpse of how cool a Superman battle could look with modern CG technology. We want to see the new movie realize this potential.

An Actor Who Can Embody Superman and Clark Kent

Superman is a touch character to cast. He has a larger-than-life quality that befits the world's greatest hero. He's also built like a brick house. Clark Kent, on the other hand, is withdrawn, meek, and a little mousy. The two are vastly different characters, and the movie requires that one actor fill both roles perfectly. Christopher Reeve was a master at this, and there's a reason most people still think of him as Superman after all this time.

The last Superman, Brandon Routh, didn't meet with the same level of success. He was a great Clark, but his Superman came across as a gangly, tight-wearing wuss. The right actor has to be out there somewhere. Movies like 300 have proved that physical size can be convincingly faked through CG, so the important factor is really the quality of acting. WB can have all the other pieces of the puzzle, but without an actor that fill the tights as aptly as Reeve, there's no point in going forward with another movie.

A Willingness to Diverge From Past Projects

Superman Returns had numerous flaws. One of the most glaring was the fact that it felt annoyingly similar to the older movies in the franchise. The general plot, with Lex Luthor scheming to create worldwide disasters and make billions in the real estate market, was practically lifted straight from the original. A successful movie needs to be willing to diverge from what came before and venture into unfamiliar territory.

Part of this goes back to the idea of villains. We can't stomach another Superman movie with Luthor as the one and only antagonist. Nor can we abide another Superman III, where the main villain was a blatant Luthor clone. We want new villains and new struggles for Superman to overcome.

We also wouldn't necessarily mind if the movie broke away from standard continuity and tried something completely different. Comics like Secret Identity and It's a Bird, as well as novels like It's Superman! take the concept of Superman and put an interesting new spin on it. It's a Bird in particular can't even be considered a superhero story. There's no reason WB can't do something new and different for once.

A Healthy Respect For What Came Before

In turn, we don't want to see WB do different just for the sake of being different. Particularly in the case of the first two movies, there were a lot of things done right. Take the general aesthetic of Krypton, for instance. Richard Donner and his designers crafted a memorable take on this alien world and the Fortress of Solitude that, frankly, put the comics to shame. It was no coincidence that the comics took several cues from this aesthetic when Returns came out. Even two years later, the comic version of the Fortress of Solitude retains that iconic crystalline appearance.

In the pages of Action Comics, Superman and Lois Lane now bear a strong resemblance to Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder, respectively. These two actors defined the roles, and we see no reason why their replacements shouldn't evoke the same classical sensibilities. The movies did too much too well for a new cast and crew to simply ignore them.

Maturity Without Being "Dark"

It's understandable that DC wants to try and force lightning to strike twice by replicating the success of Dark Knight. One of the main points in their new strategy is that they want to follow Christopher Nolan's approach. This means a strongly character-driven focus with dark, mature undertones.

Now, we're all for maturity when it comes to comic adaptations. Far too many projects in the past have collapsed under the weight of camp and goofy excess. But WB should be very careful about making a Superman film too dark. Superman is not Batman. That's essentially what comics like Superman/Batman have been trying to hammer home for decades. What works for a Batman film is not necessarily going to work for a Superman film as well.

We want to see a movie where Superman inspires people. That's what he does. He makes Metropolis, and the entire world, a better place through his actions. The movie shouldn't be drenched in dark palettes and bathed in shadow. Supes shouldn't be swearing vengeance at the graves of Ma and Pa Kent. Jimmy Olsen shouldn't run around the streets shooting people (unless he's shooting pictures, of course). The sillier trappings of the older movies definitely need to go, but the producers need to firmly hold onto the concept of Superman as a defender of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

No More Super Kid!

The one area Returns actually attempted to diverge from the comics was by introducing the child of Superman and Lois Lane. Naturally, the kid has super powers that slowly revealed themselves through the course of the film. We feel Super Kid was a huge mistake, and one that should be swept under the rug in any future projects.

There's a reason Superman has never had a real child in the comics, at least not in a continuity-driven story. It complicates the character and takes him away from his core appeal. Readers complain that simply having Superman married to Lois makes him too old and boring. What would a kid do?

There's simply no reason to even touch on the idea of Super Kid in a rebooted franchise. Let Superman be Superman. Let him pine for Lois. Don't let him devolve into a creepy stalker dad all over again. Some viewers will doubtless be disappointed that a direct sequel to Returns is out of the question now. They'll never know what became of this super-powered tyke. Good riddance, we say.

And, if for some reason WB changes gears again and strives for a sequel, we're all for Rich's suggestion – have Doomsday eat the kid. Done and done. [Hell yea! - Rich]

No Rehashing the Origin

As much as we love seeing new superheroes brought to the big screen, we're starting to grow tired of the standard origin tale. We loved Iron Man, but the movie suffered from a certain level of predictability. When you have 2 hours to establish a new franchise and it numerous characters, there are only so many directions you can take the story. Superman shouldn't have this problem. The original movie already did a suitable job of chronicling his journey to Earth and early life on the Kent farm. We don't mind if the new movie takes a few minutes to touch on this story, but we'd hate to see a significant chunk of the film wasted on another origin rehash.

Put simply, everyone already knows his origin. Supes is one of the most recognizable pop culture characters in existence. We want less time spent rehashing and more time focusing on the present. We'd say Incredible Hulk represents a good solution to this problem. Though it wasn't a direct sequel to 2003's Hulk, it assumed audiences weren't terribly interested in seeing Bruce Banner before his accident. Hulk's origin was confined to the opening credits, allowing the movie to venture into new territory for the remaining 90 minutes. If we have to sit through another 30-45 minutes of Krypton exploding and young Clark moping, we might just walk out of the theater.

A More Believable, Complex Luthor

With the next movie rebooting the franchise, we can only assume it'll take place during Superman's early days in Metropolis. Knowing that, there's absolutely no way Lex Luthor won't be a part of the story. He's too integral to this era of Superman's career not to be. We'd be happy to have Luthor make another appearance. He stands tall as Superman's ultimate villain for a very good reason.

That said, the script absolutely needs to portray Luthor in a more complex fashion than it did in Returns. Kevin Spacey made the most of what he was given, but that version of Luthor was annoyingly one-note. He was evil, and he was proud it. That's not Lex Luthor.

The real Luthor thinks of himself as the ultimate hero. He's a world-renowned inventor and businessman. He basks in his status as Metropolis' favorite son, at least until Superman arrives to steal his spotlight. Luthor clashes with Superman because he firmly believes the alien hero is a detriment to humanity. Sure, Luthor is deluding himself when he claims he could save the world if only Superman didn't constantly get in the way, but that's the whole point. Luthor is a complex villain, and he needs to be portrayed as such.

More Showcases of Superman's Power

This hearkens back to the idea of giving Superman more villains to punch, but in a more general sense. Whether he's clobbering bad guys or just throwing tanks around, we want to see Supes cut loose and unleash his strength on something. Returns was mind-numbingly boring at times, with far too few scenes like the plane rescue to liven things up. Just as Incredible Hulk turned up the smash factor for its respective hero, so should the next Superman movie.

In addition, we'd like to see Superman put his other powers to use. Not in ridiculous ways, like the magical cellophane S-shield or by spinning the world backwards. We want to see him melt robots with his heat vision, or freeze villains in their tracks with his icy breath. With current special effects technology, the producers can really push the limits of what Superman can do on screen.

Keep John Williams, Please

Superheroes are heroic. They need booming, heroic themes to communicate that idea. Superman has quite possibly the greatest musical theme of any superhero. Ever. We still get goosebumps anytime we hear John William's Superman March. Batman Begins took a bit of flack for ditching Danny Elfman's iconic Batman music. In that instance we understand the desire to move away from the older films and the idea of heroic themes in general. But in the case of Superman, we see absolutely no reason to fix what certainly isn't broken.

However, the producers need to go one step further. Returns wisely kept the Williams theme, but a different composer was responsible for the general score. Frankly, the rest of the score didn't measure up. Williams has a real genius for scoring blockbuster movies like Superman. We want to see him come back in a full capacity with the London Symphony Orchestra in tow. At the very least, the new movie needs someone of equivalent talent. With Superman, his actions speak louder than his words. And his music speaks louder than his actions.

[Coleman Reese]

I agree with their points except rehashing an origin and using Williams' score. They need a new origin that accurate yet distinct from Donner's and they definitely need a new score to escape from Donner even further.

[UA-Archangel]

Brandon Routh wasn't a problem. He was actually a potentially a very good Superman.

Unfortunately, Singer choose to make Superman some kind of new age guy who was sensitive.

[Lucid]

----

[Dr Strange]

Thats really interesting, i agree with alot that they said just not the last one about the John Williams Score, if it is a Re-boot then do not have that music, that music symbolises the Donner Franchise if they want to start over again then they need a new theme.

[zman]

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?

[GreenKToo]

I agree with everything except about using the original theme.
By all means use Williams, but let him come up with something new.

[The Shredder]

Thats really interesting, i agree with alot that they said just not the last one about the John Williams Score, if it is a Re-boot then do not have that music, that music symbolises the Donner Franchise if they want to start over again then they need a new theme.
Agreed. To successfully reboot itself, this new franchise clearly needs to differentiate itself from what came before it. Which means no Williams theme. Personally, I love it. Just as I still love Danny Elfman's Batman march for Batman 1989. But it was right for Batman Begins to have it's very own score. And the same should hold true with this Superman film as well.

[mego joe]

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?

Most significantly, Jor-El training Clark via the hologram and giving him the idea to become Superman.

[bgshw44]

love the list, agree 100%

[KobiKai]

Brandon Routh wasn't a problem. He was actually a potentially a very good Superman.

Unfortunately, Singer choose to make Superman some kind of new age guy who was sensitive.

You mean a metro-sexual?

It's not queer eye for the straight guy it's a super hero movie

[BMM]

^ That doesn't even make sense.

Thanks for stating the obvious IGN... two years later.

[chamber-music]

I agree especially with the Luthor comment. I really couldn't care less about a real estate mogul wannabe Lex surrounded by slapstick villains. I want the Lex who sees himself as the pinnacle of human achivement. Who views superman as an arrogant alien not to be trusted and a threat to humanity.

If they could get an actor to play Luthor like the one from Lex Luthor: Man of Steel by Brian Azzarello then he woul be a much more intresting and threatening villain than the previous movie versions.

The likes of McKellans Magneto and Ledgers Joker worked because they had some menace to them an actual ideals which brought them into conflict with the heroes, not just a lame scheme to make money like a second rate bond villian.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I didn't think Magneto had any real menance in the X-films.

Anywho, I wouldn't mind if the reboot was a total orgin story or a non orgin story, as long as it's a good story it's all good with me.

Keeping the Willaims music would be stupid. Elfman's Batman music is more catchy than Zimmer/Newton Howard but Nolan didn't keep in for his Batman movies. I don't see any good reason to keep the Willaims theme and am disappointed that alot of people say that they want a complete reboot but what to keep that theme. As soon as you hear that music, it's still going to be connected to Donner's Superman so I say throw it the f**k away.

[I Am The Knight]

I'm not reading all that because it's probably the same stuff we all know is necessary. Menacing Supervillain, no ties to previous movies, lighter tone, etc, etc.

So, I suppose the reboot will still use Luthor and Brainiac as villains?

[Coleman Reese]

I didn't think Magneto had any real menance in the X-films.

Anywho, I wouldn't mind if the reboot was a total orgin story or a non orgin story, as long as it's a good story it's all good with me.

Keeping the Willaims music would be stupid. Elfman's Batman music is more catchy than Zimmer/Newton Howard but Nolan didn't keep in for his Batman movies. I don't see any good reason to keep the Willaims theme and am disappointed that alot of people say that they want a complete reboot but what to keep that theme. As soon as you hear that music, it's still going to be connected to Donner's Superman so I say throw it the f**k away.

Nolan got an enormous amount of heat for not using Elfman's music. Everyone universally agreed that the score was one of the best things about Burton's Batman. I remember videos of people putting the teaser and trailer for BB to Elfman's score. People incessantly complaining about it.

But he definitely made the right decision b/c that score was synonymous with Burton's Batman. He was trying to redefine the character distinct from Burton's and changing the music went a long way with that. The same thing needs to happen with Superman. As good as the Williams score is they must replace it if they want to redefine the character away from the Donner films.

[DarkSuperman]

I agree with everything except about using the original theme.
By all means use Williams, but let him come up with something new.

Maybe some sort of combo of John Williams and the Shirley Walker Animated Series music. Cuz that stuff rocked.

[GreenKToo]

Maybe some sort of combo of John Williams and the Shirley Walker Animated Series music. Cuz that stuff rocked.
That would work. They need williams on it for sure. Either him or Howard shore.

[Moviefan2k4]

Call me a traitor to the supposed "loyal" fandom if you must, but I actually liked "Returns" for the most part. My biggest complaints were Luthor being rehashed with the tired "land grab" deal, and Lois & Superman having a kid out of wedlock (how are people supposed to be inspired by a character who messes up as often as we do?). I did like the kid's story, though, especially when he pushed the piano across the room.

on a secondarty note, I agree it needed more action, but not by a lot. This isn't "Terminator", after all. I'd like to see either Brainiac or Darkseid, and possibly introduce the bottled city of Kandor. James Marsters did such an excellent job as "Brainiac" on Smallville, and I'd love to see a similar approach, even if they choose a different actor.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

How are you a traitor for liking Returns?

I have no problem with anybody liking Returns. If anybody gives you a hard time I will defend you. I.E insult you and not intelligently debate you.

[Super-Bats]

that list is pretty much spot on, except for a few areas.

however, it's also pretty much common sense. That's why it just continues to boggle my mind as to how Singer dropped the ball on sooooo many levels........or as to how WB actually APPROVED Singer's approach...........but then again, it's WB......so....

now, as for the origin and theme music....I do think you need to "ditch the old" and revamp those elements too.

For example, instead of the barren ice crystal look for Krypton that Donner did, there's no reason why you can't make Krypton a vibrant alien world with advanced technology ( kind of like in the Animated Series ).

Also, you don't have to introduce the origin in a linear fashion. You could reveal it in flashbacks, or save quite a bit of it for the sequels. I mean, you could literally make Superman's origin a mystery to both the audience and to Superman himself. So, as Supes discovers his past/heritage throughout the film(s), we'd be discovering it too....

and, for the theme music, as much as I hate to say it......it's time to try something different. I know how iconic the Williams theme is; in fact, to celebrate the news of a reboot yesterday, I popped in the Williams theme to listen to it.

but, it's time to try something new. Who knows, maybe we'll get a new theme that's just as iconic for a new Superman franchise......

[Astrodust]

I also think it's time to move past the John Williams score. And I think Lex should definitely be in a Superman movie but lets leave him out of the first one. Have him come in 2 or 3.

[Super-Bats]

oh, and no one should be made to feel like a "traitor" for liking SR ( just as no one should be made to feel like an "idiot" for NOT LIKING SR ).

As much as I hate SR, I accept the fact that there are ppl who actually like it! ( I know...acceptance and tolerance on message boards are such novel ideas....lol ). So, Moviefan, if anyone gives you flack for liking SR, I'll be there with I SEE SPIDEY to defend you.......;)

[DarkSuperman]

that list is pretty much spot on, except for a few areas.

however, it's also pretty much common sense. That's why it just continues to boggle my mind as to how Singer dropped the ball on sooooo many levels........or as to how WB actually APPROVED Singer's approach...........but then again, it's WB......so....

now, as for the origin and theme music....I do think you need to "ditch the old" and revamp those elements too.

For example, instead of the barren ice crystal look for Krypton that Donner did, there's no reason why you can't make Krypton a vibrant alien world with advanced technology ( kind of like in the Animated Series ).

I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...can we see some black, Asian, or Latin kryptonians, please?

ALSO, I'd love to see a lush world diverse world not so different from our own with advanced technology just like the one in the animated series. In addition to this updated Krypton I'd LOVE to see an updated Jor-El similar to the one in the comics...one who resembles his son! No more Jor-El's played by old dudes who look like Santa Claus!

Make Jor-El look like Superman! Mid-30's, good looking, dark hair, etc. He should be the "Superman" of Krypton. Not some white haired dude who walks around talking like he's bored. "My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."

Jor-El should have gusto and charisma...so you can see where his son gets it.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...can we see some black, Asian, or Latin kryptonians, please?

ALSO, I'd love to see a lush world diverse world not so different from our own with advanced technology just like the one in the animated series. In addition to this updated Krypton I'd LOVE to see an updated Jor-El similar to the one in the comics...one who resembles his son! No more Jor-El's played by old dudes who look like Santa Claus!

Make Jor-El look like Superman! Mid-30's, good looking, dark hair, etc. He should be the "Superman" of Krypton. Not some white haired dude who walks around talking like he's bored. "My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."

Jor-El should have gusto and charisma...so you can see where his son gets it. :up:

[Super-Bats]

right. And besides focusing on Jor-El, how bout focusing a little more on Lara, as well. Show that baby Kal-El had 2 loving birth parents, which makes their sacrifice/death and sending him away all that more painful and sad.....

oh....and how bout keeping BOTH KENTS ALIVE! This time, DON'T KILL JONATHAN!

After all, Supes already lost both his birth parents. Plus, it would be a nice change of pace to have a superhero who wasn't "driven" to become a hero due to the direct death of a love one(s).

[Moviefan2k4]

I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...:lmao:

"My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."That sort of dialogue was meant to explain how Kryptonians are supposedly thousands of years ahead of us. "Superman: the Movie" scribe Tom Mankiewicz deliberately wrote Jor-El's dialogue to be very stilted and elegant...almost Biblical, according to him.

[Brainiac58]

A mature movie sounds great. A dark Superman sounds like a bad idea. I agree 100% that dark works great for Batman but that you need to play up the inspirational angle with Superman. Bring on some major bad guys!

[lujho]

"Movies like 300 have proved that physical size can be convincingly faked through CG"

Umm... what the ****? Why do people think this? What kind of mental deficient thinks the muscles in 300 were somehow digitally enhanced? They just used buff guys FFS!

[DarkSuperman]

right. And besides focusing on Jor-El, how bout focusing a little more on Lara, as well. Show that baby Kal-El had 2 loving birth parents, which makes their sacrifice/death and sending him away all that more painful and sad.....

oh....and how bout keeping BOTH KENTS ALIVE! This time, DON'T KILL JONATHAN!

After all, Supes already lost both his birth parents. Plus, it would be a nice change of pace to have a superhero who wasn't "driven" to become a hero due to the direct death of a love one(s).

Excellent, my friend. Two other points I forgot to mention. Thanks for putting that in. You're right, his mom needs some props too. And having both kent's worked out quite well for Lois & Clark on tv they were one of the best parts of the show! Why does everybody always have to die? His parents haven't been dead in the comics for years! In fact...having dead really just annoys me. He's already lost a whole planet, his birth parents, and the whole world thinks he's a nerd...does he have to be an orphan too?! Damn, cut the man a break!

:lmao:

That sort of dialogue was meant to explain how Kryptonians are supposedly thousands of years ahead of us. "Superman: the Movie" scribe Tom Mankiewicz deliberately wrote Jor-El's dialogue to be very stilted and elegant...almost Biblical, according to him.

I'll give that to you, when I was a kid it was all very cool and grandiose. However, now that I'm an adult I'd like to see something new. Possibly have Jor-El be the most passionate man on the planet so he stands out. While others are being all tight assed Jor-El should be the one being loud and making his voice heard, which could possibly lead to him annoying the council and them ignoring him out of spite.

Sort of a squeaky wheel gets sent to the phantom Zone thing...

I can totally see Jor-El being the most outspoken and passionate on the planet, while everyone else is very boring and arrogant.

[Hole Shot]

Nolan got an enormous amount of heat for not using Elfman's music. Everyone universally agreed that the score was one of the best things about Burton's Batman. I remember videos of people putting the teaser and trailer for BB to Elfman's score. People incessantly complaining about it.

But he definitely made the right decision b/c that score was synonymous with Burton's Batman. He was trying to redefine the character distinct from Burton's and changing the music went a long way with that. The same thing needs to happen with Superman. As good as the Williams score is they must replace it if they want to redefine the character away from the Donner films.

Straight up listening with no connection to Batman just as music, I prefer Elfman's score. However, I think as related to their movies the Zimmer score fits Nolan's Batman better than Elfman's would have. Elfman's theme is the more heroic sounding theme but Zimmer's has more of the suspensful thriller sound that's consistent with Nolan's film.

If that makes any sense.

[the gael]

the guy who made the list is 100 % right. Stick to it and you may have a great superman movie.

[Ocramed]

Agree with most here EXCEPT the desire to get rid of John Williams score and frozen Krypton. If that's the case, you might as well get rid of the theme for "Star Wars", "Star Trek", "Terminator", etc. They are too established in pop-culture to get rid of (which is why they used a part of the theme from the TV Hulk for the recent film). They changed the theme and style in Batman because it became associated with the campy style of the first four Batman films. In that regard, there was a NEED for a change in order to bring the Bat franchise back to its roots as a crime drama. Superman has always been on the fantastical side, but the humor was secondary. As for Krypton, I LIKE the alien contrast between Krypton and Earth.

So, no, KEEP the Williams score and the crystal Krypton. THOSE elements were cool.

[Motown Marvel]

if a reboot is the route being taken, this is a pretty decent guide to go by. it did make me cringe though at the idea of condoning CGI muscles....ugh.

[Timstuff]

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?

Pa Kent dying, for one.

[MaceB]

This list really demonstrates why WB has been all turned upside about this project. They want to do something new and exciting with the character, but there are certain aspects of the previous films that no one wants to let go of. WB would like to have their cake and eat it too: reboot the series, but keep the score, etc. ... but I really hope they reject that impulse. Superman I and II were both really sweet, but they are in the past and we have to let them go completely in order to give Superman room to grow. I personally liked SR, because I think Singer got the character right (despite the fact that its the kind of character other people don't like) ... but its biggest problem was that it didn't know whether it should be a new Superman movie or just a rehash of the originals. WB has to be brave on this one and go completely new.

[Hole Shot]

Are they asking for a reboot or just eliminate Returns but remain within the Donner franchise with some tweaks?

[smooth3006]

they MUST keep the same superman score for any future film. i get goosebumps every time i hear it. honestly when i saw the incredible hulk when banner first turned and his eyes turned green it gave me chills. the only thing it was lacking was the tv show chimes that occur. the point is don't mess with success. :woot:

[8Diagrams(WU)]

A darker superman movie with a score like williams wont work. I mean it doesnt make any sense to try something new and then bring back parts of the old.

[Prison Mike]

I agree with you. Make a new origin film for a new generation with new music, an original movie (what a concept!) with all the other traits that IGN mentioned. That would be perfect.

I agree 110%

[8Diagrams(WU)]

This article is a bit stupid and naive. It asks for a new Superman for a new audience but then goes on to say that you should bring the original theme back and that the actors have to have respectful resemblances to Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder who supposedly are the template of what the characters look like today.

When DC says darker, I believe they are talking about making the presentation of the movie in a modern setting, with modern themes and characters. Superman cant be presented as a the guy holding the american eagle boyscout type because that wont translate well into a movie the general audience will pay to see repeatedly. The previous score and stylistic details of the previous movies are no longer accepted by an audience that is more sophisticated. Bringing them back would be a VERY big mistake. If you are looking at doing at a reboot in style with the hulk reboot, you cannot bring over any of the previous elements that creates association to the previous films for obvious reasons.

[darkseid26]

i just hope we don't get a fortress in the jungle :dry:

[teseract]

IGN is 100% right. Keep the origin and music and go wild with everything else, that would be the way to go, A shame it won't be happening.

[Coleman Reese]

This article is a bit stupid and naive. It asks for a new Superman for a new audience but then goes on to say that you should bring the original theme back and that the actors have to have respectful resemblances to Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder who supposedly are the template of what the characters look like today.

When DC says darker, I believe they are talking about making the presentation of the movie in a modern setting, with modern themes and characters. Superman cant be presented as a the guy holding the american eagle boyscout type because that wont translate well into a movie the general audience will pay to see repeatedly. The previous score and stylistic details of the previous movies are no longer accepted by an audience that is more sophisticated. Bringing them back would be a VERY big mistake. If you are looking at doing at a reboot in style with the hulk reboot, you cannot bring over any of the previous elements that creates association to the previous films for obvious reasons.

:up::up:

[batman44]

i just hope we don't get a fortress in the jungle :dry:

I would actually skip on the Fortress of Solitude if the film is the origin or early days of Superman.

[Superark]

I don't mind if they change the FOS for the reboot, although IMO it will always be the best version as it has a timeless feels to it. However, they cannot get rid of the Williams score!

I know a lot of people believe people will associate it with Donner's movies, but honestly I don't thats the case. I think most people simply associate that theme to Superman and that's it.

When people hear that theme they don't go, "Hey its the Richard Donner Superman music." People think "Superman". This Williams score is the perfect theme. Have someone do what Ottman did or just hire Williams.

I remember when John Smoltz threw his 3000 strikeout and they started blaring the Williams Superman theme over Turner Field. Man I got goosebumps!

[dark_b]

I don't mind if they change the FOS for the reboot, although IMO it will always be the best version as it has a timeless feels to it. However, they cannot get rid of the Williams score!

I know a lot of people believe people will associate it with Donner's movies, but honestly I don't thats the case. I think most people simply associate that theme to Superman and that's it.

When people hear that theme they don't go, "Hey its the Richard Donner Superman music." People think "Superman". This Williams score is the perfect theme. Have someone do what Ottman did or just hire Williams.

I remember when John Smoltz threw his 3000 strikeout and they started blaring the Williams Superman theme over Turner Field. Man I got goosebumps!when people hear the Williams score they also think about C Reeve. and thats nto a good thing when you reboot superman.

[DieSmiling]

Guys, you can't reboot without getting a new score. You need a new score. It's the same as Batman -- nobody could imagine a good Batman movie without Elfman's score... Until they got one.

[Cousin Itt]

I almost want a sequel so I can see Doomsday eat that annoying kid.

[Superark]

when people hear the Williams score they also think about C Reeve. and thats nto a good thing when you reboot superman.

i believe thats true to an extent, but in my opinion Chris Reeve will always be in folks' mind to some degree.

[dark_b]

i believe thats true to an extent, but in my opinion Chris Reeve will always be in folks' mind to some degree.look you can not remind people when watching the movie about Reeve. this is not the plan.
the minute a random guy says tha this reminds him about the old movie..........game over.
plus you can be sure that the whole movie and theme will be different so tha tthe Williams score will nto even fit in.
in SR it did because it was meant to be a semi sequel.this not.

[DieSmiling]

i believe thats true to an extent, but in my opinion Chris Reeve will always be in folks' mind to some degree.

Just like Michael Keaton will always be Batman?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Exactly.

Although Kevin Conroy was always my Batman.

[dark_b]

^Exactly.

Although Kevin Conroy was always my Batman.you mean he was always your batman voice right?
i never understand how Conroy and Skywalker can be the perfect batman and joker.
i get that they have the best voices.

[Super-Bats]

and just as Kristin will always be my Lana........:heart:

[Superark]

look you can not remind people when watching the movie about Reeve. this is not the plan.
the minute a random guy says tha this reminds him about the old movie..........game over.
plus you can be sure that the whole movie and theme will be different so tha tthe Williams score will nto even fit in.
in SR it did because it was meant to be a semi sequel.this not.


Of they are not going to go out of the way to remind people of the Reeve films. I'm sure most things will be completely different. But no matter what the context of the movie, the Williams score will always fit in when it is Superman, at least in my view. But also like I said, I think the Williams theme just represents more than just a director or actor. I even think of the Williams theme when I read the comics.

[Superark]

Just like Michael Keaton will always be Batman?


Keaton never defined the role of Batman like Reeve did with Superman. Keaton had a whole body of work before that role and others after. Reeve couldn't escape the role. He became even more associated with the role after his accident.

[dark_b]

Of they are not going to go out of the way to remind people of the Reeve films. I'm sure most things will be completely different. But no matter what the context of the movie, the Williams score will always fit in when it is Superman, at least in my view. But also like I said, I think the Williams theme just represents more than just a director or actor. I even think of the Williams theme when I read the comics.Donners superman movie was to bigfr their times. the same wit hReeve. thats why IMO you think that it will always be right.
how can you say that it will always fit? i know that batman is not the right example. but the tone in SR was very similar thats why it fits.
a superman movie can feel completely different. i guess we will have to wait and see.

the TF score was very good IMO. i am not saying that it is superman material. of course people will be comparing it to Williams.
but the TF theme (first OP transformation in the alley) was epic. and it would with some modifications fit in a superman movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKewxbJ2iZc&feature=related

[Hole Shot]

you mean he was always your batman voice right?
i never understand how Conroy and Skywalker can be the perfect batman and joker.
i get that they have the best voices.

thank you.

I never really watched B:TAS until way after the fact (DVD release) because I really don't watch TV shows. So it's always been hard for me to understand people that are married to these voice actors and throw them into discussion with live action versions of the characters. I mean if we're going to there, then damn, the guy that did the voice for the Knightfall radio play should get his due for playing Batman.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

you mean he was always your batman voice right?
i never understand how Conroy and Skywalker can be the perfect batman and joker.
i get that they have the best voices.Must I get into the details? You know what I mean.

[dark_b]

Must I get into the details? You know what I mean.some guy was saying that Conroy would be the best batman in a movie so i had to ask you.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

some guy was saying that Conroy would be the best batman in a movie so i had to ask you.He's too old. If he were younger...maybe.

[dark_b]

He's too old. If he were younger...maybe.i agree.

[Superark]

Donners superman movie was to bigfr their times. the same wit hReeve. thats why IMO you think that it will always be right.
how can you say that it will always fit? i know that batman is not the right example. but the tone in SR was very similar thats why it fits.
a superman movie can feel completely different. i guess we will have to wait and see.

the TF score was very good IMO. i am not saying that it is superman material. of course people will be comparing it to Williams.
but the TF theme (first OP transformation in the alley) was epic. and it would with some modifications fit in a superman movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKewxbJ2iZc&feature=related

I believe the reboot will not use the Williams score, although I don't think they should or have to, but thats me. I don't ever see them doing something so drastic with Superman that the Main Theme could not work.

I think there can be good scores made for Superman, just none that will ever be as good or embody Supes like the Williams score. Then again I think that is also just a problem for most composers when you compare them to greats like Williams.

Like ya said, we will have to wait and see.

[Bulletproof]

The problem is simple to fix...
Just Hire Williams to do a new score!

[Kurosawa]

I've been asking for a new krypton since I was 10. I'm tired of seeing a frozen wasteland ruled by arrogant white dudes wearing night gowns...can we see some black, Asian, or Latin kryptonians, please?

ALSO, I'd love to see a lush world diverse world not so different from our own with advanced technology just like the one in the animated series. In addition to this updated Krypton I'd LOVE to see an updated Jor-El similar to the one in the comics...one who resembles his son! No more Jor-El's played by old dudes who look like Santa Claus!

Make Jor-El look like Superman! Mid-30's, good looking, dark hair, etc. He should be the "Superman" of Krypton. Not some white haired dude who walks around talking like he's bored. "My friends you know me to be neither rash nor impulsive..."

Jor-El should have gusto and charisma...so you can see where his son gets it.

Agreed 100%. I want something close to classic Krypton as Shuster designed it.

[bomb_voyage]

Hey how bout you put a new score in the movie, and if the fans react badly to it, you change the score back to Williams for the second movie.

[KobiKai]

IMO a new score will show right from the beginning that this is a new Superman so don't expect the same old crap

[batlovescatDC]

I agree with absolutely everything that they said, except for one thing. No Williams! I wouldn't mind if they brought Williams HIMSELF back and had him create a brand new theme that's just as good as the original (or maybe even better). But whereas I love Williams' original Superman theme, in order for this to be a TRUE reboot, the theme needs to be abandoned and a new one created. It's been used in every movie of the original Superman film series... this is supposed to be the beginning of a new Superman film series, so let's actually make it NEW! This means absolutely everything, including the music.

NO reboot has used the theme from the previous series/film. They all came up with original themes. The idea of using Elfman's theme in BB or TDK was never even considered. Everybody says, "They said the reason they didn't use the theme is because Batman isn't fully developed, but Superman is so they should keep the theme." No, my friends, Batman not being a fully developed character was the reason why they didn't CREATE a true theme for Batman... and then they have said that they really don't think an epic theme really works for the character in their films. Nolan, Zimmer, and Newton Howard, have all three gone on record saying that they never even thought about putting Elfman's theme in.

And this is just one of the examples of a new series abandoning the theme of the original. So, looking at reboot history, to all the people who want the theme back..... don't get your hopes up.

[Lestat74]

If you are going to reboot, then this is what I think they should do.

There should be nods to the Donner Superman, but not so much that people think it's an extension of it. the Crystaline look of both the Fortress of Solitude and Krypton should more or less remain. You can tweek it somewhat ( maybe add things to the fortress like in the comics ) but don't change it for the sake of changing it. Change the Williams theme. Yes, it's prefect, but if you really wanna make it clear this is a fresh start, that needs to go first. It's associated with the Reeve Superman too much.

Have the first half hour take place on Krypton. But use this as an oportunity to introduce lots of Kryptonian concepts that will play out later in the movie and later films. Take a good look at stuff that Geoff Johns has done; he took the three Phantom Zone criminals and added depth to them and layers and a real motivation for hating Jor-El. Add Brainiac to the start of the film as well....the recent re-intro of Brainiac in the recent Action comics run was very cinematic, and is a totally non cheesy way of explaining Kandor. Tie all these elements into the first act of the movie, really making Krypton a living breathing place before it goes. Once Jor-El and Lara send the baby to Earth, and we see it crash in Smallville, we CUT TO METROPOLIS.

We don't need to see the Smallville years again. It's been covered very well in the original Superman, 8 seasons of the tv show, and even flashbacks in Returns. I doubt anything in a new version would deviate too much anyways from any of those, so why retread it? The Smallville years can be mentioned in passing later, but we don't need to see it.

Have Lex be there...he needs to be, pulling the strings. He is Superman's antithesis. As Grant Morrison has said, if Superman is the God who thinks he's a man, the Luthor is the man who thinks he's a God. But Superman needs someone to fight, something alien and menacing, and it should be Brainiac, come to Earth to find the Last Son. Leave the Phantom Zone criminals for part II.

That's it for now...but I have to say I agree with most of that IGN list.

[CGHulk]

I agree with IGN. But I too think Superman needs a new opening theme! We need a director like Zack Snyder who's a huge comic fan and makes films faithful to the source material, and has a butt load of talent!! Oh and ILM should do the visual effects!! I don't want to see fake looking rubber man flying around anymore! They could do so much in camera too. Weta over in New Zealand claim they have the technology to make CG photoreal, which will be seen first in James Camerons Avatar. There is no reason to not have Superman's suit to be exactly faithful to the comics. It seams that some directors lack the imagination to believe it can be so. Oh and I want Superman's eyes to turn red when he gets angry. They need to find a damn good actor to play Superman, like Johnny Depp acting ablility!!! They need to not leave anything out in this one!! I want to be ****ing totally blown away by this one!
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5244/supermanthroughtheagesjfx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[dark_b]

i want a scene like that in the movie. superman super pissed.

[daywalker2007]

having seen the watchmen trailer on Imax before TDK,

i have to say if someone can do superman with a similar tone to Watchmen,

i will wet myself!!

that trailer looked bloody awesome, something which superman needs to be like.

visually stunning.

imagine a superman movie like that!!

[Mentok]

having seen the watchmen trailer on Imax before TDK,

i have to say if someone can do superman with a similar tone to Watchmen,

i will wet myself!!

that trailer looked bloody awesome, something which superman needs to be like.

visually stunning.

imagine a superman movie like that!!



No.... Just no. :(

[CGHulk]

having seen the watchmen trailer on Imax before TDK,

i have to say if someone can do superman with a similar tone to Watchmen,

i will wet myself!!

that trailer looked bloody awesome, something which superman needs to be like.

visually stunning.

imagine a superman movie like that!!
You are so right in terms of it needing to be visually stunning!!!

[Stompbox]

If James Bond got to retain his theme after numerous actors why can't Superman?

[dark_b]

If James Bond got to retain his theme after numerous actors why can't Superman?if batman could get a new theme ....why cant superman? :hehe:

[CGHulk]

Well there's many Batman themes. There's been many Superman themes, from Superman Doomsday, Lois and Clark, TAS, The Adventures of Superman, The Fliescher cartoons. I say why not something new, I'm sure I've left alot of others out as well! There has been no Bond cartoon or live action TV shows or old black and white Bond movies over the years.

[dark_b]

willliams march is very popular.
but in a darker themed superman movie it would not fit. even in a happy superman it can not fit if the whole tone is different.

[CGHulk]

willliams march is very popular.
but in a darker themed superman movie it would not fit. even in a happy superman it can not fit if the whole tone is different.
Well Danny Elfman's Batman theme was very poplular too, now we have Hans Zimmers and James Newton Howards fantastic scores for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight!

[dark_b]

Well Danny Elfman's Batman theme was very poplular too, now we have Hans Zimmers and James Newton Howards fantastic scores for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight!but i dont think that the ew scores will have such an impact.
i think that NOlan uses the music in the background.
while elfmans music was in your face. like it was on top of everything.

[Alien Anal]

yeh give us a new song to be excited about hearing

we already have the williams theme
it wont dissolve if we got something new

[DavidTyler]

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?

Krypton was not a crystal planet. It was a lush, green place with it's own exotic flaura and fauna (did I spell those right? I'm a bit tired).

Jor-el was not a geriatric old man with white hair (Brando)... he was about the same age as Clark is now when he sent baby Kal off. While Byrne and Wolfman had a society that didn't have couples, all versions had Jor-el as a younger man.

Krypton had very futuristic technology and baby Kal-el was sent off into space in a true ship.... not a crystal chandolier.

The accepted canon now is that Clark's powers developed slowly (another Byrne/Wolfman touch).

Originally both of the Kents passed on. Donner had Jonathan pass on. In all of the current comix, the Kents are alive and well and an integral part of Clark's adult life.

The Fortress of Solitude was not a bizarre crystaline structure with oddly jutting supports. It was a place Supes carved out of an arctic mountain.

Jor-el didn't train Kal-el ... neither on his journey to Earth nor once he reached adulthood. It just didn't happen.

Since there was no cyrstaline Krypton.. there were no crystals with the stored memory of Krypton.

[CGHulk]

yeh give us a new song to be excited about hearing



we already have the williams theme

it wont dissolve if we got something new

Yeah I love the Superman Doomsday theme, and I loved the Lois and Clark theme back when I was a teenager. Who doesn't love the Max Fliescher theme!

[Lestat74]

Krypton was not a crystal planet. It was a lush, green place with it's own exotic flaura and fauna (did I spell those right? I'm a bit tired).

Jor-el was not a geriatric old man with white hair (Brando)... he was about the same age as Clark is now when he sent baby Kal off. While Byrne and Wolfman had a society that didn't have couples, all versions had Jor-el as a younger man.

Krypton had very futuristic technology and baby Kal-el was sent off into space in a true ship.... not a crystal chandolier.

The accepted canon now is that Clark's powers developed slowly (another Byrne/Wolfman touch).

Originally both of the Kents passed on. Donner had Jonathan pass on. In all of the current comix, the Kents are alive and well and an integral part of Clark's adult life.

The Fortress of Solitude was not a bizarre crystaline structure with oddly jutting supports. It was a place Supes carved out of an arctic mountain.

Jor-el didn't train Kal-el ... neither on his journey to Earth nor once he reached adulthood. It just didn't happen.

Since there was no cyrstaline Krypton.. there were no crystals with the stored memory of Krypton.

Well, it all comes full circle, because Geoff Johns has inserted a lot of the movie iconography into official DC lore now. Krypton is now a crystaline world like the movies, the Fortress looks similar to the movies as well, and Jor-El's hologram trained Clark.

He added his own touches though, Jor-El is not as old for example ( and bearded ) and he altered much of the backstories and motivatios for Zod, Ursa and Non. He infused some silver age stuff as well, with Clark being Superboy again ( well, sorta...he was Smallville's urban myth, the "Super-Boy" ) Johns has done what the reboot film should do...acknowledge what the popular versions of these characters are that the public knows ( in other words, the films ) and put his own modern spin on them.

[ZIPBAGS]

IGN hit the nail on the head! One thing I would do is have Alex Ross do some art to show the Supes origins during the opening credits.

John Williams needs to score the movie. :)

Regarding Lex. He needs to be in the movie. But, not as the main bad guy. Have him be the reason Supes is fighting the bad guy. ie-He creates Metallo or he somehow contacts Brainiac.

[Frontier]

So, what with WB wanting to cash in on The Dark Knight's tone and expand it out to other franchises, the real question I've got right now is: what is Superman's darkest story?

To me, I would think it to be Superman Doomsday. I mean, you can't get much more dark than Superman being killed, can you?

What other 'dark' stories are out there?

Ideally, I'd say WB should just adapt Doomsday in some fashion. Perhaps with a re-title for the film, so it doesn't conflict with the recent animated film - call the new film "The Death of Superman" or something. Something that gets the point across. Use the bloody S logo. Would also be a bit symbolic, if you think about it. WB are, in effect, killing their most recent incarnation of Superman in order to re-introduce him.

[SuperDaniel]

Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?, Action Comics #775 are in my favorites. Not Dark but with serious themes.

[gimmen64]

I'd love to see the Death and Return of Superman a trilogy. That's Superman at his best.

[Deaths Head II]

The Death and Return of Superman. Not just because Doomsday beat Superman to a pulp, but Cyborg wiping out an entire city, Eradicator toasting criminals, Steel trying to stop street wars involving guns that exploded people into many tiny pieces, and many other things. They even showed a kid exploding in Steel's story. I read that as a kid and it blew my mind, being used to the upbeat nature of most Superman incarnations. I became a regular Superman reader after that. Though of course as I grew I appreciated the character for other reasons.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I so don't want to see The Death of Superman trillogy. Haven't read all of it but it sounds like a mess.

[Sam]

So, what with WB wanting to cash in on The Dark Knight's tone and expand it out to other franchises, the real question I've got right now is: what is Superman's darkest story?

Kingdom Come!!

[Franklin Richards]

Off the top of my head, I'd have to say when he executed the Phantom Zone villains in the 80's.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[SuperDaniel]

Kingdom Come is a good choice. Death of Superman was done in Superman:Doomsday.

[batlovescatDC]

Death of Superman. But I honestly doubt that they are going to do a straight adaptation of a certain comic book/storyline. I don't think that they are actually going to make Superman DARK. I think they know that Superman isn't Batman, and going that dark with Superman just doesn't work. I just think that they'll do with this new Superman movie what Nolan/Goyer and Co. did with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.... take different elements/stories/characters from certain popular comic books and use those to form the story/film. That's what I think they'll do and what I certainly hope that they do.

[KaptainKrypton]

I so don't want to see The Death of Superman trillogy. Haven't read all of it but it sounds like a mess.
Only because of the numbers of characters that were involved in it at the time. It could be pared down in terms of the numbers of characters involved and if written well would be amazing in terms of scope and scale. Just so long as they left out the Super-Mullet.:yay:

[Crook]

Only because of the numbers of characters that were involved in it at the time. It could be pared down in terms of the numbers of characters involved and if written well would be amazing in terms of scope and scale. Just so long as they left out the Super-Mullet.:yay:
I've read the story, and yeah....it's a mess.

I say if they were to do "Death of Superman", adapt only the most important aspects of the story (Doomsday and Supes in a city-battle, where Supes "dies") and change everything else up in a way that it's fit for a movie. The original story isn't all the great at all, and probably any modern re-interpretation of that story would work better anyway.

[TheBatman1979]

I still don't know why people like "The Death of Superman". It's a terrible, ill conceived story. Action Comics #775, "What ever happened to Truth, Justice and the American Way", is a beautiful story that deals with what Superman would do if he thought someone had killed Lois. "For the Man who has everything" is an awesome story that includes Mongul, and both are better written and have more mature themes than "The Death of Superman".

Why base a movie off a series of issues that were designed to sucker people into buying multiple copies for no apparent reason?

It'd be like making the next Batman film based off "Knightfall", you might as well have Joel Shumacher direct again.

[CFE]

I think people are throwing around the term "dark" WAY too much...and unecessarily.

It's not a matter of "The Dark Knight" being 'dark.'

I think it's the facts that "The Dark Knight" is adult without being obscene and complex without being difficult to follow that Warners needs to bring to its other cast of DC characters.

A dark Superman? God no, that sounds like s**t.

An adult and complex Superman? Let's give it a shot...

CFE

[markaudette]

You can't do the Doomsday storyline in the movies. Especially not after Superman Returns, having Bryan tease us all with Superman's possible death after falling back to Earth. The Death of Superman storyline would just be too much of a similarity to certain elements in "Superman Returns."

[Deaths Head II]

I still don't know why people like "The Death of Superman". It's a terrible, ill conceived story. Action Comics #775, "What ever happened to Truth, Justice and the American Way", is a beautiful story that deals with what Superman would do if he thought someone had killed Lois. "For the Man who has everything" is an awesome story that includes Mongul, and both are better written and have more mature themes than "The Death of Superman".

Why base a movie off a series of issues that were designed to sucker people into buying multiple copies for no apparent reason?

It'd be like making the next Batman film based off "Knightfall", you might as well have Joel Shumacher direct again.

Lots of superhero films are based off originally poorly written stories (which I don't believe the trilogy is, I read it without the hype and made my non-comic fan and usually critical friends read it and they all found it to be an enjoyable story with a lot of interesting elements), but people enjoy them for the concepts. I read Demon in a Bottle and while I would like the story to be the basis for Iron Man 2, I found the comic book version to pretty much be a typical 70s Iron Man story except for the ending where Tony realizes he has a drinking problem and that is way too small a chunk of that story. I like it for that, but if I'm going to be overly critical of it as most critics are of Death of Superman then poo on it. The Death of Superman was always entertained as a concept before for years, it just was never attempted in canon. People like the idea. Of course, I may be biased on this issue. Like I said, the story line got me into the comic. And it made a lot of Superman haters I know learn to appreciate what the character represents through that story.

I do agree it is spammed too often as a suggestion though. There are way better and more original stories for a Superman film.

[SuperDaniel]

Imo, Superman: Doomsday is much better than the story in the comics.

[BATZARRO WWD]

You can't do the Doomsday storyline in the movies. Especially not after Superman Returns, having Bryan tease us all with Superman's possible death after falling back to Earth. The Death of Superman storyline would just be too much of a similarity to certain elements in "Superman Returns."

Agreed.

[Superman2008]

I still don't know why people like "The Death of Superman". It's a terrible, ill conceived story. Action Comics #775, "What ever happened to Truth, Justice and the American Way", is a beautiful story that deals with what Superman would do if he thought someone had killed Lois. "For the Man who has everything" is an awesome story that includes Mongul, and both are better written and have more mature themes than "The Death of Superman".

Why base a movie off a series of issues that were designed to sucker people into buying multiple copies for no apparent reason?

It'd be like making the next Batman film based off "Knightfall", you might as well have Joel Shumacher direct again.

I agree with about 90% of everything you said. Especially about how Death of Superman is a terrible, ill conceived story. It was a major publicity stunt (which worked), but did not demonstrate heroism. If Superman really wanted to, he would have flown out of earth's atmosphere, build up some speed, then come at Doomsday at sub-light speed and carry him off to outerspace, and into a star or black hole, he would have then saved thousands of lives and damage to multiple cities.

I also like the idea of Action Comics #775 as the basis for the next Superman reboot. However, you were wrong. Issue #775 deals with Superman's ordeal with the ELITE and not what Superman would do if Lois was killed.

Action Comics #775 puts Superman to the ultimate test of his life. Because he represents the good in all of us and he has faith in doing what is fair and just. But the Elite throws that out the window and the world loves them for their ways. So, does Superman adopt the ways of which the Elite embrace, the ways of which the majority of the people of earth condone? No, even at the brink of death, Superman proves why he is Superman, he proves why he is the Greatest Superhero of all, he proves the way of justice and faith in humanity is the true path we should all adopt.

This is what makes Action Comics #775 the perfect story for a Superman reboot. It has a ton of action!! A TON! It has superhero battles unlike many Superman has gone through in the past! And it showcases, Superman's wit, ingenuity and indominable strength of character! Oh, did I mention it is action packed!?!

[Gamingboy]

The darkest is without a doubt Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Okay, if anyone other than Alan Moore were writing it, it would have been a horrible and exploitive story. I mean, we have (I'll put it in spoilers for anyone who hasn't read this excellent story):



Bizarro killing himself (his logic: Superman's alive, if Bizarro is the opposite, he should be dead)
Pete Ross is tortured into giving up Clark Kent and then killed
Luthor is taken over by Brainiac
The Legion of Superheroes, who of course know what will happen, show up to give him a farewell gift
The Fortress of Solitude comes under siege by every villain alive, basically.
Lex is killed by Lana Lang (as one of her hero identities) during the siege
Lana is killed by the Legion of Super-Villains
Jimmy is murdered by the Brainiac-controlled Luthor-Corpse
Krypto dies.
It's all revealed to be the work of Mxylzpltk
Superman kills Mxy.



Very disturbing story. Even with the brilliant epilogue, it's a real downer. Don't get me wrong, it's a great story, but you almost expect the ending to be Superman waking up in the middle of the night sweating in terror.

[SatEL]

So, what with WB wanting to cash in on The Dark Knight's tone and expand it out to other franchises, the real question I've got right now is: what is Superman's darkest story?

To me, I would think it to be Superman Doomsday. I mean, you can't get much more dark than Superman being killed, can you?

What other 'dark' stories are out there?

Ideally, I'd say WB should just adapt Doomsday in some fashion. Perhaps with a re-title for the film, so it doesn't conflict with the recent animated film - call the new film "The Death of Superman" or something. Something that gets the point across. Use the bloody S logo. Would also be a bit symbolic, if you think about it. WB are, in effect, killing their most recent incarnation of Superman in order to re-introduce him.

Without a doubt the darkest Superman story ever is For Tomorrow, it was just gawdd dammmmmm awful but was certainly dark.

[SatEL]

I agree with about 90% of everything you said. Especially about how Death of Superman is a terrible, ill conceived story. It was a major publicity stunt (which worked), but did not demonstrate heroism. If Superman really wanted to, he would have flown out of earth's atmosphere, build up some speed, then come at Doomsday at sub-light speed and carry him off to outerspace, and into a star or black hole, he would have then saved thousands of lives and damage to multiple cities.



Superman was severely weak during that period you have to remember a few moments before his fight with Doomsday he got knocked out by a gas station explosion.

[Lightning54SC]

Superman was severely weak during that period you have to remember a few moments before his fight with Doomsday he got knocked out by a gas station explosion.

if memory serves he was on a tv show and heard of the justice league getting their butts handed too!

[Deaths Head II]

The darkest is without a doubt Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Okay, if anyone other than Alan Moore were writing it, it would have been a horrible and exploitive story. I mean, we have (I'll put it in spoilers for anyone who hasn't read this excellent story):



Bizarro killing himself (his logic: Superman's alive, if Bizarro is the opposite, he should be dead)
Pete Ross is tortured into giving up Clark Kent and then killed
Luthor is taken over by Brainiac
The Legion of Superheroes, who of course know what will happen, show up to give him a farewell gift
The Fortress of Solitude comes under siege by every villain alive, basically.
Lex is killed by Lana Lang (as one of her hero identities) during the siege
Lana is killed by the Legion of Super-Villains
Jimmy is murdered by the Brainiac-controlled Luthor-Corpse
Krypto dies.
It's all revealed to be the work of Mxylzpltk
Superman kills Mxy.



Very disturbing story. Even with the brilliant epilogue, it's a real downer. Don't get me wrong, it's a great story, but you almost expect the ending to be Superman waking up in the middle of the night sweating in terror.

Didn't it also turn out that:
Bizzaro kills a bunch of people before killing himself because Superman doesn't kill and he's Superman's opposite.
Bizzaro also destroyed Bizarro world and came to Earth as an adult like Superman did as a child when Krypton blew up.
Pete Ross was tortured and killed by the Toy Man and the Prankster of all people.
Lex begged Lois to killed him because he didn't want to be possessed by Braniac.
Mxylzpltk turned out to be a dark and evil being in disguise and not a goofy little cartoon guy in a little hat.


Yeah, that is definitely a candidate for darkest story.

[The Guard]

Darkest? Not most emotional?

Off the top of my head, I'd have to say when he executed the Phantom Zone villains in the 80's.

Definitely this one.

[gimmen64]

if memory serves he was on a tv show and heard of the justice league getting their butts handed too!

Everyone got theirs handed to them. I was totally hooked on the story and was amazing. It was this story that made me read more comics and want to know more about Superman.

[I Am The Knight]

I hate Doomsday, honestly. Never understood the appeal for that character.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I think he's a great character, I loved the explanation of his origins, and think a lot more could be done with him than has been done.

[Astrodust]

The time he creeped on Lois in Superman Returns.

[I Am The Knight]

^I think he's a great character, I loved the explanation of his origins, and think a lot more could be done with him than has been done.

I think, for me, it's an aesthetic thing. I understand they changed the character quite radically a few years ago, didn't they?

[TimDrake64x]

I so don't want to see The Death of Superman trillogy. Haven't read all of it but it sounds like a mess.

it is. but really there are 2 reasons to not do the death now. one is that its too early if its going to be a reboot to start killing superman. and two is didnt he kind of die at the end of the last one?

[Sam]

I know exactly which dark Superman story can be told on the big screen. But, of course, i wont say it, since it is part of a movie script i am writing.

I have everything layout. Villians, backstories, motivations, etc. It is emotional, inspiring, full of action and 100% faithfull to the source material (comics).

Who knows? Maybe one day i will be able to show this to Warner or some producer :)

[DavidTyler]

Off the top of my head, I'd have to say when he executed the Phantom Zone villains in the 80's.


:doom: :doom: :doom:


ABSOLUTELY...!

Actually, that would have been a better film all around.

Singer, if he had any notion at all to do research, would have found this story and realized he could have done the exile story and it would have accomplished what he wanted.

In short (for those of you who haven't read it) Superman is fighting the Phantom Zone criminals who, in this story, are from a different reality which they've completely destroyed. Supes is in for the fight of his life as he's trying to keep them from destroying ours. He feels that he has no other recourse but to kill them. Having done that, he exiles himself into space. While in space, he goes from battle to battle and makes many discoveries ...many about himself.

Meanwhile, back on Earth, life is going on.

Singer could have used this scenario to have Supes away for so long that the world actually does move on.

[thorstone]

You can't do the Doomsday storyline in the movies. Especially not after Superman Returns, having Bryan tease us all with Superman's possible death after falling back to Earth. The Death of Superman storyline would just be too much of a similarity to certain elements in "Superman Returns."


I feel the same about Superman Returns' ending.

They can have a character such as Darkseid weild Doomsday as a weapon against Superman but it would make better cinema for him to overcome Doomsday with the expectation that Superman is going to die-- if Superman is going to die, it should happen in the way Beowulf dies in his fight with the dragon (nature).

Otherwise, the darkest story would be Kingdom Come, the death of Lane, but that is difficult without the Joker to kill her.

[DIRECTOR]

I could imagine old idiots around a table discussing what to do with the all the WB franchises and thinking, "hey, TDK did well because it was dark, let have all of our characters darker, more big bucks"

STUPID IDIOTS

TDK did well because of Great Cast, Excellent Story, There were not single boring shot, the whole movie was intense. NOT BECAUSE IT WAS DARK.

SR was not epic enough, the cast was not right, the story was dull (seriously........ LAND????????????).

The only thing good about SR was Brandon Routh and the music. Lex was okay, but I can't blame him because the story was just bad and unrealistic

[batlovescatDC]

I love the character of Doomsday but I don't want them to try and do him in a film. I just don't think (no matter who is making it) it can be done right in film.

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

I always thought it would be cool if they did a new Superman trilogy, and with the third film did the death of Superman storyline with Superman dying.

[That-Guy]

"For Tomorrow" was a pretty dark Superman story. I wouldn't want to see it used as the basis for a film, but elements of it could easily be incorporated into a movie: Superman getting involved in a war overseas, for example. After all, he is Earth's greatest hero, not just America's (or Metropolis' for that matter). And that story had the most badass version of Zod I've ever seen (even though it supposedly wasn't the "real" Zod... goddamn DC).

[Nirvana]

Death of Superman mix with Darkseid?

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

If they want a dark Superman movie I suggest they go with Darkseid. Darkseid is a dark character. That would make the dark Superman movie the execs want and please fans because even though Supes is not a dark character, his villians can be and that could be the recipe for a good Superman film.

[iamsilvio]

if you guys notice comic book movies that do well are not bogged down with love stories. The DK was about the bad guy and stoping the him. I hope the new superman will not focus on louis at all. They must use a significant threat like Mongul, Darksied, Doomsday or even brainiac.

[MaskedManJRK]

Kingdom Come is definately the more darker Superman story I can think of.

For Tomorrow was pretty good, espicially seeing him slowly lose his humanity without Lois as his anchor. Wouldn't really work for a reboot film, though.

[That-Guy]

I would LOVE to see a Kingdom Come movie, but that will probably never happen. Still, it's nice to dream.

[SuperDaniel]

I dont like For Tomorrow at all...

[BULLITT]

Kingdom Come

[That-Guy]

For Tomorrow was a pretty weird story all-in-all and I honestly wasn't sure how I felt about it until the very end. But the resolve and the battle with Zod made me love it.

[BULLITT]

If you can't jazz on the William's score, you must be pushing daisies.

[ClarkLuther55]

The Donner score is great, but don't fool yourselves into thinking it's a necessity for a new superhero movie. The Bruce Timm cartoons (both the animated series and the Doomsday DVD movie) had two separate, but heroic and powerful themes that fit Superman perfectly.

The Nolan movies showed that yes, you can come up with a new theme for the hero even if an older theme is established. The music in Batman Begins better captured the rage of Nolan's Batman better than the Elfman music too.

As for the origin, I am against skipping over it on the belief that "everyone knows it already." No, not everyone does. For a generation of kids, this movie will be their FIRST exposure to the character. It's 2008 now, even the Bruce Timm animated series from the late 90s is before the time of kids these days. Even if people are familiar with Superman, starting from the beginning allows them to jump on and feel like they're a part of things.

IMO, the worst mistake Singer made, worse than goofy Lex, no punching, or superkid was skipping the origin. Imagine being a 5 year old watching Superman Returns for the first time...and it starts with text telling you that you've already missed the character's greatest adventures. WTF is that? Don't make the same mistake that Singer did.

[Timstuff]

IGN lost me when they pulled out the "everyone knows the origin!" cliche.

[nintendo nerd]

Well Danny Elfman's Batman theme was very poplular too, now we have Hans Zimmers and James Newton Howards fantastic scores for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight!

Elfman's and Zimmer's were never as popular as William's score. It's a classic. It screams Superman!!!!!!!

[afan]

Alright I'll bite: how is Donner's origin story different from the comic book (which I admit I don't read a lot of)?


Most significantly, Jor-El training Clark via the hologram and giving him the idea to become Superman.

While it certainly is an addition unique to Donner' s film, that addition did not replace the influence of the Kent's upbringing, and should not dismiss Donner's attention to that detail. Clearly the discussion between Clark and Jonathan just prior to Jonathan's death re. Clark's abilities and how they should be used illustrates this. It is not a fanciful leap to suppose that these father / son talks were frequent and very influential.

Later in the film Superman recalls both the words of Jonathan and Jor-el when faced with Lois' emotionally unnacceptable death, indicating the equal importance of each of his "father's" guiding words.

I like to think that in S:TM it was the Kent's who created the man, and Jor-el who educated him.

[Nirvana]

I agree with most of the things in this article except that I hated Margot Kidder and the new Lois should NOT try and replicate her performance, please do an origin story, and ditch the Williams score.

[fabman]

Who would you want to write Superman?

Here are my candidates:

- Andrew Kevin Walker
- Brian Helgeland
- John August
- Shane Black

[SuperDaniel]

Me.

[romeogbs19]

Ultimately, it should be a collaborative effort with a few rewrites that should involve the likes of Morrison, Loeb, Byrne, etc.

As for a first draft, however, get this guy NOW:

MICHAEL CHABON

If you don't know who that is, then get off your rear end and find out.

[hippie_hunter]

Geoff Johns

[FilmNerdJamie]

Frank Darabont.

[Frodo]

I'd pick the legend.....Paul Haggis. Casino Royale, Million Dollar Baby, Crash and Quantum of Solace.

[ZIPBAGS]

I would give a chance to Bruce Timm. Who was responsible for the popular Batman/Superman/JLA animated series.

Or comic/movie writer Jeph Loeb.

[Slusho]

Matthew Michael Carnahan (The Kingdom; Lions for for Lambs) would be my choice.

Great, intense action as well as intelligent storylines in these films.
IMO would be great for the reboot

[SuperDaniel]

I would give a chance to Bruce Timm. Who was responsible for the popular Batman/Superman/JLA animated series.

Or comic/movie writer Jeph Loeb.
:up:

[Astrodust]

As long as they don't use the guys from Superman Returns, I would be open to just about anyone to come up with a script.

[COMPO]

Kevin Smith

[Sam]

Me.

And Warner not even need to pay me for that. :)

[Superfreak]

Ron Moore writer/producer would be sick

[Superfreak]

:up:

I'd support that, but I'd rather see Timm be given the big DC/WB movie chair, and be allowed to oversee the development of entire DC universe of movie franchises, rather than an individual franchise (if that is infact the direction that WB wants to go). He's the only person I can think of who could do justice to overseeing all the major DC titles that could go to the big screen.

[kalelkilla]

I'd want to see what Mark Millar had up his sleeve. He said that he has a Superman Trilogy outlined and pretty much ready to go. He is a fan first and foremost, and I think he would do the character justice. He likened his project to "Lord of the Rings" I would love to see that. Get Jeph Loeb in there somehow as a producer.

[noyer]

Hard to say. There are a few I would like to see take a crack at it:

-Russell T. Davis - Creative drive behind the new Doctor Who I think would make for an interesting approach to brining the Man of Steel to the big screen.

-Edgar Wright (also as director) - think of how much fun he could bring to a Superman.

-Grant Morrison - after All Star Superman, I'd love to see him write it, but who would direct?

[The Sage]

Grant Morrison
Mark Millar
Geoff Johns
Paul Dini

[SonikDeath]

Jonathan Nolan.

[Lighthouse]

Jonathan Nolan.

Seconded.

[Hole Shot]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison with a story credit and Jonah Nolan actually writing the screenplay.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

G-d I hate the Batnatics.

I'd give Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio go for the screenplay.

[Hole Shot]

G-d I hate the Batnatics.

I'd give Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio go for the screenplay.


Hate is a strong word, ya think?

I think J. Nolan is a good screenwriter but I'd like the story conceptualized by great Superman writers.

Elliot and Rossio have written some fun movies but have written some schlockfests too. And in my opinion, At World's End was just a mess they loaded their story with more information that there talent level could handle.

Does that mean they're incapable of writing a good Superman script. Not at all. If a Superman movie could appeal to me on the same level offering the same variety of entertainment as the original PotC I'd be pretty happy.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Hate is a strong word, ya think?

I think J. Nolan is a good screenwriter but I'd like the story conceptualized by great Superman writers.

Elliot and Rossio have written some fun movies but have written some schlockfests too. And in my opinion, At World's End was just a mess they loaded their story with more information that there talent level could handle.

Does that mean they're incapable of writing a good Superman script. Not at all. If a Superman movie could appeal to me on the same level offering the same variety of entertainment as the original PotC I'd be pretty happy.Hate is a strong word but it's the right one.

I never said that Nolan wasn't a good/great screenwriter. I just don't think that he would be right for Superman, he's great but his movies are mostly dark depressing affairs. I'm still taking Zoloft after seeing The Dark Knight.

I didn't like At worlds End either but that doesn't mean that I don't want them to take a crack at a Superman screenplay. Them or the Iron Man screenwriters. Personally I've had enough of depressing Superman.

[Hole Shot]

I never said that Nolan wasn't a good/great screenwriter. I just don't think that he would be right for Superman, he's great but his movies are mostly dark depressing affairs. I'm still taking Zoloft after seeing The Dark Knight.


Try Prozac.:cwink:

And I didn't think you didn't believe Nolan was good writer. But, he writes a script from the story given and he's only worked with dark noir type things so we don't know what he'd do if you gave him something more light in theme. It could be great or it could be John Grisham writing a Christmas story starring Tim Allen.



I didn't like At worlds End either but that doesn't mean that I don't want them to take a crack at a Superman screenplay. Them or the Iron Man screenwriters. Personally I've had enough of depressing Superman.

Superman shouldn't be dark or depressing. I don't think it needs to be 100% Transformers goofy summer popcorn either. I recently read Birthright again after it being talked about so much after the reboot news and I really do think the tone/maturity level/whatever you want to call it translated to live action would be just about right.

[That-Guy]

Mark Waid, Geoff Johns and Alex Ross.

[OwlBoy]

Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns and Kurt Busiek

[kalelkilla]

JJ Abrahms, Mark Millar and Jeph Loeb = Gold

[SPIDERMAN117]

IF they wana go with a "Serious" take on the charcter I'd say go James Vanderbilt. I am sure he will "Finally" make Spider-man a more serious charcter. I'd say he could do some justice to Superman. He did write one hell off a screenplay with "Zodiac"

[Jake Cassidy]

Paul Haggis & David Haytner

[Sam]

JJ Abrahms, Mark Millar and Jeph Loeb = Gold

I dont know why, but i see this mix works just as water and oil! :)

[Sawyer]

G-d I hate the Batnatics.

I'd give Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio go for the screenplay.

Not bad...not bad at all.

My choice would be Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci.

[kalelkilla]

JJ would be good at showing the action, as well as writing the scenes with Lois Lane and the romance, like in Alias, Mark Millar would be great at updating Superman without being offensive,like in Birthright, and Jeph Loeb is fantastic at making Superman seem more "human" than any writer I've read, like in Superman For All Seasons. Two must reads.

[CFE]

By all means get a new score for Superman...

It's not going to hold a candle to Williams anyway. I mean his theme IS Superman's theme and no future score or theme is going to change that ever.

So there's no harm in doing something new...it'll just simultaneously be something that doesn't have as much impact as John and we all will just have to deal with that.

CFE

[p4poetic]

Yeah I love the Superman Doomsday theme, and I loved the Lois and Clark theme back when I was a teenager. Who doesn't love the Max Fliescher theme!

Me too.

[kalelkilla]

The Superman Score by John Williams is one of the most recognizable songs in the world, next to Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Jaws, it is probably the most popular world wide. The Batman Theme by Elfman was great but no where near as great as Williams score. I bet there aren't a 100 people that can hum the scores from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight...not that they weren't good, they just weren't as good as John William's Superman. Please it is the ONE thing the WB has gotten right with Superman...don't take that away from us...concentrate on making a decent goddamn movie...with a decent plot and a script that's best lines don't come from a movie made 30 years before...thanks

[CFE]

Seriously, I don't think the franchise needs to be overhauled.

If they dropped a few comic rogues into the Donnerverse and followed suit by having Superman throw a few earth shattering punches and some heavy hitting brawling, it'd be fine.

CFE

[Mostpowerful]

Seriously, I don't think the franchise needs to be overhauled.

If they dropped a few comic rogues into the Donnerverse and followed suit by having Superman throw a few earth shattering punches and some heavy hitting brawling, it'd be fine.

CFE

WORD.

Plus Brandon Routh is totally awesome as Superman/Clark. :supes:

I also like Kevin Spacey as Lex. :o Actually, I just want a sequel, cuz I LOVE SR.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Seriously, I don't think the franchise needs to be overhauled.

If they dropped a few comic rogues into the Donnerverse and followed suit by having Superman throw a few earth shattering punches and some heavy hitting brawling, it'd be fine.

CFEI'm glad Nolan didn't think that way when it came to Batman because I didn't care for Tim Burton's Batfilms.

[CFE]

Batman's different.

The franchise had been so diluted from one to another that it was in need of an overhaul.

Superman on the other hand, despite the lackluster work of the filmmakers behind the later sequels, was built on a frame conceptualized by Tom Mankewicz, Dick Donner and Christopher Reeve that remained consistent and thusly was never truly broken.

And if it isn't broken...there's no point in fixing it.

CFE

[solidsnake86]

Batman's different.

The franchise had been so diluted from one to another that it was in need of an overhaul.

Superman on the other hand, despite the lackluster work of the filmmakers behind the later sequels, was built on a frame conceptualized by Tom Mankewicz, Dick Donner and Christopher Reeve that remained consistent and thusly was never truly broken.

And if it isn't broken...there's no point in fixing it.

CFE

Not really, fans might not like the burton films now but the first 2 were well liked. Superman's series is not so different from Batmans with the last 2 movies being pretty bad. IMO the superman series with Reeve is broken and thats why it needs fixing, maybe not to the fans that loved it but others exist who generally are not impressed with the 30 year old movie.

[dark_b]

i think only the superman fans are making the williams score so big. give me links on youtube where people are talking about williams score. not a documentary about him. but tv-shows. where is this worldwide obssesion for the williams score?

i think on a general forum people dont care for williams superma nscore.

[dark_b]

Batman's different.

The franchise had been so diluted from one to another that it was in need of an overhaul.

Superman on the other hand, despite the lackluster work of the filmmakers behind the later sequels, was built on a frame conceptualized by Tom Mankewicz, Dick Donner and Christopher Reeve that remained consistent and thusly was never truly broken.

And if it isn't broken...there's no point in fixing it.

CFEif you are doing a new movie with new cast,new feel,new themes and new cast......do a new score.

[DavidTyler]

It just came to me in a flash this morning while I was looking at a hi-def add featuring Iron Man.

Superman does not need a hi-tech suit with a 3D emblem. He needs a traditional suit (albiet made with better materials than Chris Reeve's suit) but the antagonists around him need to have that exciting high-tech look.

Lex needs to be corporate Lex with the underground, cavernous secret lab populated with scientists for hire.

Brainiac needs to be a high-tech bio-mechanical creature surrounded by stunning CGI alien looking machinations.

We could have Darksied - you all know how visually stunning anything associated with that character could be.

Intergang with their high-tech weaponry.

The list goes on and on.

It could be exciting and visually stunning and all without giving Superman a stupid plastic 3D emblem glued to his chest.

Then you just need to develop his supporting cast so that they're in line with the current comix interpretations (or close to it - I'd base them on Superman TAS) and give us a Krypton worthy of his backstory.

[CFE]

No you misunderstand me.

Look at the original Batman series.

Burton's first installment looks very good, nostalgic...IMO, Anton Furst nailed what Gotham City brought to life would look like. Then going from that to 'Batman Returns,' despite retaining the dark and mysterioso factor, the astheatic of Batman's world looks tremendously different. Then Schumacher comes in and changes everything save for Pat Hingle, Michael Gough, the basic design of the suit (sans nipples) and a little reference to Catwoman.

Basically, as you go from one Batman film to another, you can't help but think "How did it get to this?"

On the other hand, the Superman series has remained fairly consistent in its overall design and approach to the character and his universe as opposed to changing it up with every installment. Christopher Reeve as Superman looks exactly the same in each film. Now I'm not taking jabs at the Batman series for utilizing different actors for the role. I mean Supes literally looks the same. That suit doesn't go from one incarnation to another like the Batsuit did (technically still does).

That's what I meant.

Despite getting the visual language of Batman correct right out the gate, the series twisted and manipulated it to the point where there was no choice BUT to overhaul it with Nolan. And now look..."Begins" and "TDK" are overall a seamless visual representation of this current Batman, albeit a few minor differences here or there. I mean in the previous franchise, I have a really hard time trying to believe that Clooney's Batman is technically supposed to be the same guy that took on Nicholson's Joker or Devito's Penguin.

On the other hand, despite the lackluster "Superman III" (my guilty pleasure) and how dreadful "The Quest for Peace" was, I can still look at Superman in "Quest for Peace" and believe that it's the same character that had fought the likes of Lex Luthor and General Zod.

There's a set of building blocks Donner, Reeve and the rest of that group put into place that for all the efforts of Canon or the Salkinds to destroy...really wasn't. I mean sure Superman's III and IV are pretty awful, but those building blocks remain intact in spite of that.

CFE

[CFE]

Side Note:

i think on a general forum people dont care for williams superman score.

That's because people, by in large, are stupid. William's score is a classic, whether you're a Superman fan or not.

Seriously, what happened to a little thing called 'respect' ? It seems everywhere I turn, people are dogging things that I can't even imagine being under such scrutiny. I don't care who you are, it's John Williams...The Maestro!

In the end, if people want a new score that's fine. But don't be an ass and call Williams' score "trash" or "old" or something that needs to be "thrown out."

Clearly the score and that theme had enough significance to stick around for 30 years...

CFE

[dark_b]

then start wearing your 10 years old underwear, shoes,......

[Union Jack]

i agree with most of tht list...and the theme must stay..its like star wars without its theme..it wouldnt be right.
i wanna see a trilogy of the death and return of superman....have him die in number 2 for the darker ending ala empire strikes back...
i think that work well.

[The Guard]

I've never met someone who doesn't like the Williams Superman theme.

And as far as I can tell, die-hard fans were never thrilled with the Batman franchise. Even when Nolan came aboard fans originally had issues with it, until they realized that's about as good as it was ever going to get.

[dark_b]

i agree with most of tht list...and the theme must stay..its like star wars without its theme..it wouldnt be right.
i wanna see a trilogy of the death and return of superman....have him die in number 2 for the darker ending ala empire strikes back...
i think that work well.show me the star wars reboot :huh:

[I Am The Knight]

show me the star wars reboot :huh:

There isn't one :huh:

[FilmNerdJamie]

show me the star wars reboot :huh:

Shut the Hell up, man! Lucas might be listening and you'll give him ideas... :woot:

[Crook]

There isn't one :huh:
That's his point. All the SW stories are part of the same universe.

[CFE]

then start wearing your 10 years old underwear, shoes,......

That makes no sense whatsoever. What does that have to do with John William's Superman theme :huh:

CFE

[Hypestyle]

Christopher Priest
Dwayne McDuffie

[lukedoggwalker]

it'd be the most logical way of doing it. especially if they're going to keep Brandon Routh. and i think we all can agree that Superman Returns wasnt all THAT bad of a movie, we just need to give Superman and Lois some history and i bet you'll see Superman Returns in a whole new way. they can end the 3rd movie with Superman leaving for Krypton and actually show that Lex Luthor was behind it all. (which was a deleted scene from Returns.) and they could add lil subtle things like Jimmy not being able to get a good shot of Supes so in Returns when we have that scene with him looking at his camera it could actually be really funny. i really really really hope the studio is thinking of making prequels instead of a complete reboot. just think the Star Wars movies but done right.

anybody have any connections with WB? maybe send them a letter with the idea?

and plz enough with this "NO SUPERMAN BEGINS" crud, not everybody is 50 and has seen Christopher Reeves's movies (which i think are overrated.) i mean it was good for its day but you gotta admit, the graphics are really distracting, and the ridiculously simple fight scenes are boring. just imagine Krypton with todays technology.

[Superman-Prime]

One word: No.

[lukedoggwalker]

One word: No.

why not? they're going this route anyways so why not make the movies have some connection to Returns? instead of confusing the audience by making a complete reboot with the same actor.

they can also give Supes another suit like so many of you wanted, remember in Returns when Perry White says "is that a new suit?"

[Superark]

There's already a thread about Reboot or Prequel, no need for this one.

Close!

[lukedoggwalker]

There's already a thread about Reboot or Prequel, no need for this one.

Close!

actually the other thread is asking whether you'd interpret the next film as a reboot or a prequel. my thread is focused solely on the next film being a prequel.. why do ppl keep avoiding my ideas?

[FaT_tONle]

why do ppl keep avoiding my ideas?

First Class Noob may be one of many reasons... but we all made threads that should have never been started when we signed on to the Hype... so not all is lost.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Was this thread needed? Geez. I'm not trying to be mean but this thread is not needed.

[I Am The Knight]

In b4 teh lockz!!!!111

[lukedoggwalker]

First Class Noob may be one of many reasons... but we all made threads that should have never been started when we signed on to the Hype... so not all is lost.

actually i was originally a member since 2004 (before you lol?) i just changed my sn. i rly dont understand why ppl dont wanna discuss this. seems nobody likes to listen to people with only 16 posts around here, too cool to talk to n00bz on a superherohype board?.. are you a newbist?


my other sn was I7eIvIoNBoY btw.