The Economy Thread

[SuBe]

Um, didn't Stormin say that?
Yes, he did.

[Kelly]

I didn't say that? :huh:


Stormin' did.....

[BatMatt]

I didn't say that? :huh:

you didn't have to change your avatar mate:word:

[SuBe]

you didn't have to change your avatar mate:word:
I felt bad.

:o

[sinewave]

Um, didn't Stormin say that?

I didn't say that? :huh:

damn, you're right. sorry. you guys are interchangeable to me. it must be the names.

[SuBe]

damn, you're right. sorry. you guys are interchangeable to me. it must be the names.
But, I'm Asian, and he's a white guy...

How could you get us confused?

I'll take it as a compliment however.

[StorminNorman]

this coming from the guy who said



niiiiiice.

I didn't say that? :huh:

But, I'm Asian, and he's a white guy...

How could you get us confused?

I'll take it as a compliment however.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sinewave should get a job in the White House.

[Kelly]

I think Sine pays his taxes, he's not qualified....

[SuBe]

I think Sine pays his taxes, he's not qualified....
He can get a job with their Press Team. I think they have a new opening.

[Handsome Rob]

My grandfather is a retired CPA and former IRS Agent--he loves the idea of the FairTax.

[sinewave]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sinewave should get a job in the White House.

nah, i'm too lazy to work 12-15 hours a day. besides, i'm not a big fan of daily bouts of stress-induced explosive diarrhea. :csad:

[BlackLantern]

nah, i'm too lazy to work 12-15 hours a day. besides, i'm not a big fan of daily bouts of stress-induced explosive diarrhea. :csad:

not even to say you dropped a wet deuce in the White House??

[sinewave]

not even to say you dropped a wet deuce in the White House??

yeah, but that novelty would wear off pretty quick.

[Marx]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

The DOW JONES actually got back into the 8,000 range!

:applaud

[El_Citrus]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

The DOW JONES actually got back into the 8,000 range!

:applaud


:wow: You mean we're allowed to have GOOD economic news?!

[Marx]

:wow: You mean we're allowed to have GOOD economic news?!

It seems to be few and far between but...yes! :yay:

[VampElvis]

I recently heard a claim that in 3-5 years the total debt of the US, including the stimulus packages, etc. would equal one year's GDP of the entire world. Unfortunately my schedule really doesn't allow me time to research this claim so I turn to you, hypesters. Can anyone address the veracity of this claim with authority?

[Mr. Green]

The Obama administration is doing a fine job of spending ridiculous amounts of money.

LOOK AT THIS (http://www.livewire-appstate.org/S2-spr09.html).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/qizzynob/bailout-pie.png

[SuBe]

Green took a Chart in here.

[Mr. Green]

Yeah, it shows a lot more stuff in the link.

[Kelly]

not allowed, not allowed..................not allowed......not allowed.

Damn, that's some chart....

[SuBe]

Yeah, it shows a lot more stuff in the link.
You're Chart is obvisouly biased and Anti-Obama. :o

[Mr. Green]

Is it not true?

[BlackLantern]

You're Chart is obvisouly biased and Anti-Obama. :o

and maybe even racist....

[Mr. Green]

Is that a joke?

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yep.

Every color on the spectrum is in that chart.

Except one.

Black.

Think about it.

[The Major]

The Obama administration is doing a fine job of spending ridiculous amounts of money.

LOOK AT THIS (http://www.livewire-appstate.org/S2-spr09.html).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/qizzynob/bailout-pie.png
It's not like there's a recession going on.


...oh wait!:oldrazz:

[Mr. Green]

Lol!

[Marx]

Oh no...people are pulling out 'teh chartz' again.

[SuBe]

Estimated U.S. taxpayer cost for bailout jumps

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE53323420090406

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. congressional budget analysts have raised their estimate of the net cost to taxpayers for the government's financial rescue program to $356 billion, an increase of $167 billion from earlier estimates.

Yay!

[Kelly]

It's not done yet, each quarter it will go up.....just watch.

[Lunar_Wolf]

I was listening to the radio today, and the Irish Government have decided not to hand out Christmas bonuses anymore. I love how the government dropped the bonus, but leave foreigners in constantly. Foreigners here get payed way more money when it comes to social benefits then anyone else who have been living here all their lives. Not only this, but now most people will be getting 130 abducted from their wages, once every two weeks.

Awesome, awesome news.

[SuBe]

This belongs in Economy Thread.

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

According to CNN, GENERAL MOTORS is preparing for bankruptcy.

[Matt]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

According to CNN, GENERAL MOTORS is preparing for bankruptcy.

That is not good news at all.

Amazing with all these bailouts, they are still unable to pay their debts.

[SuBe]

Bailouts DONT WORK!!!

[BlackLantern]

That is not good news at all.

Amazing with all these bailouts, they are still unable to pay their debts.

maybe we'll get dnno in here making his "letting GM fail is a violation of the Constitution" argument

[SuBe]

Its really funny, the Founders had some semblance of an idea that Weapon's Technology will improve over time, but the 2nd Amendment "shouldn't" count modern firearms, but GM is a Constitutionally "Protected" Corporation.

:whatever:

[BlackLantern]

Its really funny, the Founders had some semblance of an idea that Weapon's Technology will improve over time, but the 2nd Amendment "shouldn't" count modern firearms, but GM is a Constitutionally "Protected" Corporation.

:whatever:

His whole argument was that by association "millions of people and their businesses" relied on GM and them being allowed to fail by the government would infringe upon the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

when in actuality, GM employs 252,000 worldwide

[Marx]

His whole argument was that by association "millions of people and their businesses" relied on GM and them being allowed to fail by the government would infringe upon the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

when in actuality, GM employs 252,000 worldwide

I think Dnno's point is that alot of other businesses who rely on GM will be hurting as well. (Which is absolutely true.)

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yep.

Apparently...Corporations get to play by it's own rules. It's incredible to see.

Michael Moore seems to be proven right if it happens.

But, they can still survive. Bankruptcy isn't the end of the world...they could still come out alive.

But, it's not good news at all.

I don't like how blue collar workers are being hit with the pimp hand...while white collar workers are being babied.

[BlackLantern]

No....his point was that the government would be violating the Constitution if they allowed GM to fail....and should be held accountable if that happened

[SuBe]

I think Dnno's point is that alot of other businesses who rely on GM will be hurting as well. (Which is absolutely true.)
Its called Capitalism. Ups and Downs happen.

[Marx]

No....his point was that the government would be violating the Constitution if they allowed GM to fail....and should be held accountable if that happened

Well I don't agree with that.

[Marx]

Its called Capitalism. Ups and Downs happen.

I'm fully aware that it's capitalism. I'm just saying that it is absolutely true that GM won't be the only one affected by their bankruptcy.

[BlackLantern]

if/when it happens...I see some of their more popular brands being sold off to other companies

[Matt]

maybe we'll get dnno in here making his "letting GM fail is a violation of the Constitution" argument

:lmao:

He's actually said that?

[The Major]

Bailouts DONT WORK!!!
The country hasn't fallen into the economic abyss has it? It worked.

[BlackLantern]

:lmao:

He's actually said that?

yes...its in the 'General Motors' thread

[The Major]

His whole argument was that by association "millions of people and their businesses" relied on GM and them being allowed to fail by the government would infringe upon the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

when in actuality, GM employs 252,000 worldwide
They're referring to the satellite industries like the repair shops, car dealerships and the parts manufacturers.

[VampElvis]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

According to CNN, GENERAL MOTORS is preparing for bankruptcy.

That is not good news at all.

Amazing with all these bailouts, they are still unable to pay their debts.

On the plus side their sales are up 25% year to year in China:woot:

[BlackLantern]

They're referring to the satellite industries like the repair shops, car dealerships and the parts manufacturers.

I know that but the argument still makes little sense.....violating the Constitution??? really?

[SsM]

The country hasn't fallen into the economic abyss has it? It worked.

It was never going to. Given time to fix itself it would have done just that.

[Kelly]

I'm sorry, but I think bankruptcy is the best thing for GM....let it reorganize, into a viable company. It CAN HAPPEN, it has happened in the airlines, it can happen here.

[SsM]

Don't be sorry :P

[danielisthor]

I'm sorry, but I think bankruptcy is the best thing for GM....let it reorganize, into a viable company. It CAN HAPPEN, it has happened in the airlines, it can happen here.

It'll become a viable company when it stops bending over to the unions.

[El_Citrus]

Bailouts DONT WORK!!!

The government is never going to be convinced of that until we hit a rock bottom of sorts. GM going under is going to hurt, but maybe it will be the boot that every other car maker needs implanted into their rectum to start seriously changing their policies........ok, it probably won't happen, but still, we can dream, right?

[The Major]

Its called Capitalism. Ups and Downs happen.
Only when it falls this time it takes America and maybe the world with it.

[The Major]

It was never going to. Given time to fix itself it would have done just that.
The bail-outs are giving the economy time to fix itself. It's on life support with that. Without the stimulus this economy would be on its death bed. It could take decades to recover under that condition. To do that it would require a complete rebirth of the financial market on a bigger scale then they're doing at the moment since most of the big corporations would fall, it would take many years to rebuild and build companies that large. I'd prefer not to have America become a third world nation between those time periods.

[hippie_hunter]

I'm sorry, but I think bankruptcy is the best thing for GM....let it reorganize, into a viable company. It CAN HAPPEN, it has happened in the airlines, it can happen here.

The airlines still suck when it comes to profitability.

[Matt]

It'll become a viable company when it stops bending over to the unions.

The only realistic way to do that is to lay off in mass and outsource the jobs, then everyone would be villifying them for that. GM tried to do the right thing and keep jobs in America, and it bit them in their asses.

[hippie_hunter]

It wouldn't have bit them in their asses if the UAW leadership weren't so stubborn.

[danielisthor]

The only realistic way to do that is to lay off in mass and outsource the jobs, then everyone would be villifying them for that. GM tried to do the right thing and keep jobs in America, and it bit them in their asses.

Or the Union give something back in exchange for not closing a plant or the execs not taking big bonuses.

Here's the link to the curret GM/UAW agreement. GM was literally A** raped.

http://www.uaw.com/contracts/07/gm/index.php


Some of the Lowlights of that deal, unless your a GM UAW.

1. The agreement will deliver more than $13,000 in economic gains for a typical UAW member, including a $3,000 signing bonus, two 3 percent lump sums and a 4 percent lump sum.

2. GM also agreed to a moratorium on outsourcing, a pledge to insource more than 3,000 UAW jobs and a commitment to hire 3,000 temporary workers as permanent GM employees.

3. Active workers will see their comprehensive health care coverage continue, with dental, hearing and other benefits improved. Retired workers will have their health benefits secured by a Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA), refunded by GM with $29.9 billion in cash and other assets. The fund can only be used to pay retiree health benefits, and will remain solvent for decades regardless of the financial condition of GM.

4. Independence Day Week Shutdown Pay
The proposed agreement maintains the Independence Day week shutdown at GM. During the week of the Independence Day holiday, seniority UAW workers will receive four days (32 hours) off at their regular rate of pay, including shift and seven-day operation premiums. Eligibility is unchanged from the 2003-2007 agreement.
Over the term of the proposed agreement, the 32 hours of shutdown pay are worth an average of $950 each year for a typical GM assembler.

5. New Hires' 401(k)
GM will contribute $1 per compensated hour into all new hires' 401(k) plans.

6. Basic Benefit and 30-and-Out Supplement
The UAW has once again remembered our retirees and surviving spouses who retired prior to Oct.1, 2007. In this proposed agreement, the basic benefit rate has been increased by $2 per month per year of credited service. Those retirees receiving a 30-and-out supplement will receive a $120 increase in the total amount payable to them, inclusive of the basic benefit rate increase. All increases are effective Oct. 1, 2007.

7. Delphi "Gap" Issues Resolved
Your bargaining team was determined to further protect former GM workers impacted by the Delphi spin-off. As a result, under this proposed agreement these workers, both active and retired, will receive the same pension increases, pension lump sums, and Social Security "creep" benefits as similar GM workers.

[The Major]

It'll become a viable company when it stops bending over to the unions.
Management first. They're not doing charity work.

[The Major]

Or the Union give something back in exchange for not closing a plant or the execs not taking big bonuses.

Here's the link to the curret GM/UAW agreement. GM was literally A** raped.

http://www.uaw.com/contracts/07/gm/index.php


Some of the Lowlights of that deal, unless your a GM UAW.

1. The agreement will deliver more than $13,000 in economic gains for a typical UAW member, including a $3,000 signing bonus, two 3 percent lump sums and a 4 percent lump sum.

2. GM also agreed to a moratorium on outsourcing, a pledge to insource more than 3,000 UAW jobs and a commitment to hire 3,000 temporary workers as permanent GM employees.

3. Active workers will see their comprehensive health care coverage continue, with dental, hearing and other benefits improved. Retired workers will have their health benefits secured by a Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA), refunded by GM with $29.9 billion in cash and other assets. The fund can only be used to pay retiree health benefits, and will remain solvent for decades regardless of the financial condition of GM.

4. Independence Day Week Shutdown Pay
The proposed agreement maintains the Independence Day week shutdown at GM. During the week of the Independence Day holiday, seniority UAW workers will receive four days (32 hours) off at their regular rate of pay, including shift and seven-day operation premiums. Eligibility is unchanged from the 2003-2007 agreement.
Over the term of the proposed agreement, the 32 hours of shutdown pay are worth an average of $950 each year for a typical GM assembler.

5. New Hires' 401(k)
GM will contribute $1 per compensated hour into all new hires' 401(k) plans.

6. Basic Benefit and 30-and-Out Supplement
The UAW has once again remembered our retirees and surviving spouses who retired prior to Oct.1, 2007. In this proposed agreement, the basic benefit rate has been increased by $2 per month per year of credited service. Those retirees receiving a 30-and-out supplement will receive a $120 increase in the total amount payable to them, inclusive of the basic benefit rate increase. All increases are effective Oct. 1, 2007.

7. Delphi "Gap" Issues Resolved
Your bargaining team was determined to further protect former GM workers impacted by the Delphi spin-off. As a result, under this proposed agreement these workers, both active and retired, will receive the same pension increases, pension lump sums, and Social Security "creep" benefits as similar GM workers.Got a link to what the management is getting?

[Marx]

IN WORLD ECONOMIC NEWS...

JAPAN has announced that it intends to create a stimulus of $150 BILLION to combat its current economic crisis.

[Marx]

MORE BAD ECONOMIC NEWS...

NEW YORK CITY MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG has announced that upwards of 7,000 city positions could be cut from the city.

:wow:

[danielisthor]

Got a link to what the management is getting?

Nope, do you. And when your asking about management, are you defining it as from lowly floor supervisors all the way up to the CEO.

Do your own research if you wish to counterpoint me.

[SuBe]

IN WORLD ECONOMIC NEWS...

JAPAN has announced that it intends to create a stimulus of $150 BILLION to combat its current economic crisis.

BAILOUTS DONT WORK!:cmad:

[The Major]

Nope, do you.

No, that's why I was asking.

And when your asking about management, are you defining it as from lowly floor supervisors all the way up to the CEO.

Yes.

Do your own research if you wish to counterpoint me.
Got any good direction which credible sites have those figures? Or is your argument so weak that you need to stack the deck against the union without facts from the other side? Since you're so up to date with the management in the auto industry surely it would be easy to show how much resources they're using.

[Marx]

BAILOUTS DONT WORK!:cmad:

You know...I think I've read that somewhere before... :oldrazz:

[SuBe]

Maj, why do you have so much anger against the people that create the jobs?

[SuBe]

You know...I think I've read that somewhere before... :oldrazz:
I say it over and over again, and I'll say it until I die.

Welfare and Corporate Welfare are both bad things.

[The Major]

Maj, why do you have so much anger against the people that create the jobs?
I don't have anger because they are wealthy or create jobs. I get angry when they abuse their power to keep the status quo that is in their favor. This goes for unions just so you know I'm not playing favorites between the classes.

[SuBe]

I agree, they both are guilty. But, I believe we need to get away from this "Group labeling". You can't grow together if you are dividing yourselves.

[The Major]

I agree, they both are guilty. But, I believe we need to get away from this "Group labeling". You can't grow together if you are dividing yourselves.
True. But we can't grow together if one side sacrifices the other to the wolves, either. That's why the management needs to step up to the plate. They aren't innocent bystanders in this situation.

[SuBe]

It'll be just back and forth, back and forth if they continue with that mentality. "We gave and you Didn't" back and forth.


I see it as, those jobs belong to those that create it, they get to decide who fills it.

[SuBe]

:dp:

[The Major]

It'll be just back and forth, back and forth if they continue with that mentality. "We gave and you Didn't" back and forth.

It's true isn't it? How much does the management want to save their companies if they aren't sacrificing as much as possible? Expect the labor to do the hard work while they keep the credit. :whatever:

I see it as, those jobs belong to those that create it, they get to decide who fills it. Technically you're correct. However, this doesn't mean they are kings who get to decide everything to save their own skins. If they want the industry to fail rather then act rationally so be it. I'm sure they'll love the unemployment line.

[SuBe]

Same goes for the Unions. What good is a Union Job, if the company they work for fails?

[BlackLantern]

how much in dues does the UAW stand to lose if/when GM goes under??

[SuBe]

I'd say a little bit.

[Paradyme]

So, some of the banks are trying to pay back their loans from the Government and the Government is saying no. Why haven't we heard more on this?

[danielisthor]

No, that's why I was asking.



Yes.


Got any good direction which credible sites have those figures? Or is your argument so weak that you need to stack the deck against the union without facts from the other side? Since you're so up to date with the management in the auto industry surely it would be easy to show how much resources they're using.

GM wanted to close a plant and outsource it (not sure which plant), cut cost, save money. The Union balked at that. GM caved in to the Union. So not only did the plant stay open, but under the new agreement, GM had to create 3000 more insourced jobs and permanetly hire 3000 part time employees.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-cuts-10000-salaried-jobs-apf-14311932.html

Highlights

The Detroit-based automaker said Tuesday it will reduce its total number of white-collar workers by 14 percent to 63,000. About 3,400, or 12 percent, of GM's 29,500 salaried U.S. jobs will be eliminated.

Most of the company's remaining salaried employees will have their wages cut.

The company's statement said there would be no buyout or early retirement packages as GM had offered in the past, but laid-off employees will get severance pay, benefit contributions and other assistance.

The wages of U.S. executive employees will be cut by 10 percent, while other salaried workers will see cuts of 3 percent to 7 percent, GM said.

So as you can see, the man (white collar employees) are getting fired and those who get to keep their jobs are taking pay cuts.

[SuBe]

So, some of the banks are trying to pay back their loans from the Government and the Government is saying no. Why haven't we heard more on this?
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46351

[danielisthor]

So, some of the banks are trying to pay back their loans from the Government and the Government is saying no. Why haven't we heard more on this?

You haven't been watching Neil Cavuto and Shephard Smith?


The Feds want control of the banking industry and the only way to get it is to have the banks beholden to them.

[SuBe]

Yup

[Kelly]

You haven't been watching Neil Cavuto and Shephard Smith?


The Feds want control of the banking industry and the only way to get it is to have the banks beholden to them.


Neil Cavuto and the Fox Business News channel has stayed all over this.....they have a court case in progress to get "all" information that should be public knowledge...PUBLIC. This is NOT against the Obama administration....they started this with the Bush administration...

They have covered this better than all other news companies put together....

[The Major]

The Feds want control of the banking industry and the only way to get it is to have the banks beholden to them.
Feds want control because the bankers can't be trusted run their own businesses competently.

[The Major]

GM wanted to close a plant and outsource it (not sure which plant), cut cost, save money. The Union balked at that. GM caved in to the Union. So not only did the plant stay open, but under the new agreement, GM had to create 3000 more insourced jobs and permanetly hire 3000 part time employees.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-cuts-10000-salaried-jobs-apf-14311932.html

Highlights

The Detroit-based automaker said Tuesday it will reduce its total number of white-collar workers by 14 percent to 63,000. About 3,400, or 12 percent, of GM's 29,500 salaried U.S. jobs will be eliminated.

Most of the company's remaining salaried employees will have their wages cut.

The company's statement said there would be no buyout or early retirement packages as GM had offered in the past, but laid-off employees will get severance pay, benefit contributions and other assistance.

The wages of U.S. executive employees will be cut by 10 percent, while other salaried workers will see cuts of 3 percent to 7 percent, GM said.

So as you can see, the man (white collar employees) are getting fired and those who get to keep their jobs are taking pay cuts.Thank you.

[Ugfugly]

Feds want control .

Fixed

[BlackLantern]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-preparing-possible-bankruptcy-report/story.aspx?guid=%7B9BE2FACB-AE20-4915-ACC0-382664116BBC%7D&dist=msr_17

GM is gearing up for bankruptcy filings

[Kelly]

Surprise..............................surprise.... ...................*insert a massive amount of sarcasm into this post*

[BlackLantern]

but, but, but.....its an American institution...how can it fail?? o yea.....outdated business strategy and being strangled by the union will do that to you

[Marx]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

The DOW JONES got back into the 8,000 range today! :applaud

[SsM]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

The DOW JONES got back into the 8,000 range today! :applaud

I thought that happened a few days ago.

[SuBe]

I thought that happened a few days ago.
It has it's ups and downs.

[SsM]

I stopped paying daily attention to it a few weeks ago.

[Marx]

I thought that happened a few days ago.

It did, but then it fell again. It's been quite the rollercoaster...

[El_Citrus]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

The DOW JONES got back into the 8,000 range today! :applaud



It's been quite the rollercoaster...


WOOO! *Throws his hands above his head, not seeing the awefully low overpass at the bottom of the hill*

Seriously, I never like to trust the Stock Market. It almost feels like those guys on Wall St. run the economy at times when it should be us who run it.

[SuBe]

Wall Street IS us. It is an acculmination of the Consumers (you and me), the Manufacturers, the Distributors, the Retailers, the Marketing, Everyone. The Best part about it is, they are diversified, where as there is only ONE Government.

[El_Citrus]

That ONE government is even more frightening than Wall St.

[Kelly]

WOOO! *Throws his hands above his head, not seeing the awefully low overpass at the bottom of the hill*

Seriously, I never like to trust the Stock Market. It almost feels like those guys on Wall St. run the economy at times when it should be us who run it.


I'm doing a half hand raise........my portfolio has a looooooooooooooong way to go......it needs to be above 8000 for a good while before I give a full hand raise...

[SuBe]

Green Stimulus Money Costs More Jobs Than It Creates, Study Shows
Monday, April 13, 2009


http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46453

[dnno1]

Speaking of Sensationalism:

Lehman Sits on Bomb of Uranium Cake as Prices Slump
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aNJJYNBs1rQA&refer=home

[Marx]

MORE BAD ECONOMIC NEWS...

CALIFORNIA'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE has risen to 11.2 percent.

NORTH CAROLINA'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE has risen to 10.8 percent.

[Paradyme]

U.S. may convert banks’ bailouts to equity share

WASHINGTON - President Obama’s top economic advisers have determined that they can shore up the nation’s banking system without having to ask Congress for more money any time soon, according to administration officials.

In a significant shift, White House and Treasury Department officials now say they can stretch what is left of the $700 billion financial bailout fund further than they had expected a few months ago, simply by converting the government’s existing loans to the nation’s 19 biggest banks into common stock.

Converting those loans to common shares would turn the federal aid into available capital for a bank — and give the government a large ownership stake in return.

....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30300700/

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

THE NEW YORK TIMES is reporting a $74.5 MILLION LOSS!

:wow:

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

GM has announced that they are going to 'kill off' PONTIAC.

:csad:

[SuBe]

Damn. My first car was a Pontiac. :(

[Marx]

Damn. My first car was a Pontiac. :(

So was mine...my first car was the 'knightrider' car. What was yours?

[SuBe]

1988 Sunbird

[redfirebird2008]

I had a 1997 Pontiac red Firebird up until September 2008 when I got my 2009 navy blue Malibu.

[VampElvis]

Mine was a 1962 Chevrolet Impala SS - it was already an antique, I'm not that old. 350 with a high rise Edlelcrock aluminum intake and a vacuum Holley 750. Only bad thing was she power glide 2 speed. No take off but man at the top end. You had to get her to about 115 before you heard sswwooooosshh and the back two barrels on that Holley open up then the engine would drop to a really deep growl and we'd go surfin'. Air would build under the body and lift her up until she burped it and then she'd sit back down and start building up air again. She was a fun car. Sold her and bought a several years old '87 t-bird turbo coupe when I left to go to college. Been through a lot 'em since then.

[Kelly]

1964 Volkswagen Bug, semi-cut to be a Baha Buggy....

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

GENERAL MOTORS has announced plans to CUT 21,000 more factory jobs!

Wow...

[dnno1]

c3_Ax3KVdp8&

[Bathead]

Interesting....

[redfirebird2008]

Collins is right that it wasn't economic stimulus, but then again 90% of the stimulus package wasn't economic stimulus. It will be interesting to see if this hurts her politically.

[El_Citrus]

Ugh, what happened to all the green colored text?.........

[Marx]

Ugh, what happened to all the green colored text?.........

When some positive things start happening again...I'll post in green text for you! :oldrazz:

[El_Citrus]

When some positive things start happening again...I'll post in green text for you! :oldrazz:

That could be a while though, damnit. Someone invent something revolutionary so we can turn this country around, we need more green text.

[redfirebird2008]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

GENERAL MOTORS has announced plans to 21,000 more factory jobs!

Wow...

I think you left out the word "cut" in this statement, but I could be wrong. :woot:

[Marx]

I think you left out the word "cut" in this statement, but I could be wrong. :woot:

Fixed. :cwink:

[dnno1]

Actually, anything that would create or preserve a job could be considered economic stimulus, so pademic flu preparedness would do that and hence be a form of economic stimulus.

[SuBe]

Citigroup Asking for Treasury OK to Pay Bonuses to Key Employees


Citigroup is trying to get U.S. approval for special bonuses for many of its employees.


Citigroup (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=c) Inc., soon to be one-third owned by the U.S. government, is asking the Treasury for permission to pay special bonuses to many key employees, according to people familiar with the matter.

The request comes as Citigroup is grappling with broad government pay restrictions that could break apart its legendary energy-trading unit. People at that unit, Phibro, are threatening to leave because of pay caps tied to the U.S. bailout of Citigroup. Phibro has been the source of hundreds of millions of dollars in profits for the bank, and has paid out hefty compensation, including a roughly $100 million windfall last year for the unit's leader, Andrew Hall.

Citigroup is looking for ways to free Phibro from the federal restrictions, including a spinoff of the unit, according to people familiar with the matter. Separately, Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group and Citigroup reached a deal in which the Japanese bank will acquire a large chunk of Citigroup's operations in Japan.

Citigroup is trying to get U.S. approval for special bonuses for many of its employees. In a meeting earlier this month with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit made the case for the stock-based bonuses. Executives are describing the bonuses as "retention" awards to perk up demoralized employees who the company worries are vulnerable to poaching by rival firms, people familiar with the matter said.

A person familiar with Geithner's thinking said the Treasury hadn't made a decision on whether to allow the bonuses. It is unclear how much Citigroup would pay out in bonuses if the government approved the move. A Citigroup spokesman declined to comment on details of the proposed compensation plans.

Citigroup's request comes after Congress, the public and the president blasted pay practices on Wall Street. Bonuses at American International Group Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. ignited political infernos in Washington.
Citigroup has already gotten its own share of criticism for excessive spending, thanks in part to its aborted plans earlier this year to buy a new corporate jet. The company has received $50 billion in taxpayer aid, and the U.S. government is protecting Citigroup against most losses on $301 billion of its assets. The Treasury is poised next month to become Citigroup's largest shareholder, owning as much as 36 percent of its common stock.

Click here to read the full story from the Wall Street Journal. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124096311194466041.html)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/29/citigroup-asking-treasury-ok-pay-bonuses-key-employees/

[Marx]

^:facepalm

[Mr. Green]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

GENERAL MOTORS has announced plans to CUT 21,000 more factory jobs!

Wow...
Good thing we bailed them out... :facepalm

Also, just my 2 cents on the whole "bonuses" deal you always hear about in the news:

Is it a good moral thing for these people to use government cash to give themselves big bonuses while others are getting laid off, etc.? Nope. But what a distraction this is. The Fed is robbing us blind with no government accountability whatsoever and we're worrying about CEOs giving themselves bonuses? It's like stressing out about a mosquito bite while you have a gaping gunshot wound in your chest.

The same people who control the Fed and the other central banks control the media so of course the major news networks are going to focus on **** like this and NEVER, EVER, EVER focus on the real problem: the Federal Reserve system.

In related news, I e-mailed my congressional rep last week, urging her to support HR 1207, the bill to audit the Fed (can you think of a reason they SHOULDN'T be audited?). Here's Ron Paul on the subject:

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[SuBe]

Economy falls more than expected

The nation's gross domestic product fell 6.1% in the first quarter -- nearly the same pace as the end of 2008, and a much sharper drop than expected.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/29/news/economy/gdp/index.htm?postversion=2009042908

The first Quarter of Obama as President. We have more coming folks.

[redfirebird2008]

Economy falls more than expected

The nation's gross domestic product fell 6.1% in the first quarter -- nearly the same pace as the end of 2008, and a much sharper drop than expected.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/29/news/economy/gdp/index.htm?postversion=2009042908

The first Quarter of Obama as President. We have more coming folks.

We have a crash coming. Obama has nothing to do with it. It was all done over the last 20 years. All these bailouts are just a coverup for the crash that is coming. They're zombie banks and pretty soon they will fail.

[Marx]

We have a crash coming. Obama has nothing to do with it. It was all done over the last 20 years. All these bailouts are just a coverup for the crash that is coming. They're zombie banks and pretty soon they will fail.

That's the spirit Firebird! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon13.gif

[redfirebird2008]

That's the spirit Firebird! http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon13.gif

16 of 19 big banks are technically insolvent. Yep, I'd say a crash is coming.

[XpunkRocker]

Chrysler will file for bankruptcy now that negotiations with creditors have collapsed.

[BlackLantern]

Chrysler will file for bankruptcy now that negotiations with creditors have collapsed.

Oh damn....things fell through

[Kelly]

*shakes head*.....thank Washington for wasting my damn money.

[hippie_hunter]

One of America’s most reliable economic forecasters says the current recession – the longest in half a century - will end this year, possibly as early as this summer.

Lakshman Achuthan, Managing Director at the Economic Cycle Research Institute (ECRI), was one of the first to declare that the US was in a recession. Now he’s one of the first to say its ending. ECRI, he says, is the research group in the world that studies business cycle recessions and recoveries for a living, and has a near-perfect record of predicting. They do it by crunching various pieces of data and creating “leading indicators” which show where the economy is headed

The indicator that looks the furthest into the future actually started showing signs of future growth as early as last November, as the worst of the credit crisis started to ease. Another indicator, with a shorter lead-time into the future, started pointing toward growth in early December. Both indicators have showed steady growth since then and that, says Achuthan, is enough data for him to say this recession is ending. That’s because, over the last 75 years, when those indicators turn up, the recession ends within four months. No exceptions, says Achuthan.

Achuthan points out that these same indicators predicted the current recession, by turning downward BEFORE the recession began. Specifically, Achuthan notes, his leading indicators turned downward in Early June, 2007; the current recession “officially” began in December of that year. Because of that, Achuthan was able to announce that the US was in recession some NINE MONTHS before the National Bureau of Economic Research, which is the official arbiter of recessions, did.

But don’t buy the party supplies just yet. The end of a recession simply means that things will start becoming “less negative.” A top adviser to President Obama says the economy will again shrink in the 2nd quarter of this year – that’s the period we’re in now. But Achuthan declaration doesn’t really counter that – he doesn’t think recovery will start until the 3rd quarter – sometime after June.

But how do you have a recovery if job losses continue? The Labor Department says 6,300,000 people are now drawing unemployment benefits – that’s a record. And a number greater than that are unemployed but NOT collecting benefits, because their benefits have run out.

Achuthan worries that during a recession, we all become more productive, by working with less (we fill in when our colleagues are laid-off, for instance), and so you don’t need to hire all of those people back for the economy to recover. The danger of that is that many millions of people who have lost their jobs may not get them back in this economy – and that can create great disparity in society – “haves” who have more; “have nots” who have less.

[SuBe]

*shakes head*.....thank Washington for wasting my damn money.

If I remember correctly, there were several of us on this board, back in the day, that said this would happen.

*huh, go figure...

[hippie_hunter]

Citigroup Asking for Treasury OK to Pay Bonuses to Key Employees


Citigroup is trying to get U.S. approval for special bonuses for many of its employees.


Citigroup (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=c) Inc., soon to be one-third owned by the U.S. government, is asking the Treasury for permission to pay special bonuses to many key employees, according to people familiar with the matter.

The request comes as Citigroup is grappling with broad government pay restrictions that could break apart its legendary energy-trading unit. People at that unit, Phibro, are threatening to leave because of pay caps tied to the U.S. bailout of Citigroup. Phibro has been the source of hundreds of millions of dollars in profits for the bank, and has paid out hefty compensation, including a roughly $100 million windfall last year for the unit's leader, Andrew Hall.

Citigroup is looking for ways to free Phibro from the federal restrictions, including a spinoff of the unit, according to people familiar with the matter. Separately, Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group and Citigroup reached a deal in which the Japanese bank will acquire a large chunk of Citigroup's operations in Japan.

Citigroup is trying to get U.S. approval for special bonuses for many of its employees. In a meeting earlier this month with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit made the case for the stock-based bonuses. Executives are describing the bonuses as "retention" awards to perk up demoralized employees who the company worries are vulnerable to poaching by rival firms, people familiar with the matter said.

A person familiar with Geithner's thinking said the Treasury hadn't made a decision on whether to allow the bonuses. It is unclear how much Citigroup would pay out in bonuses if the government approved the move. A Citigroup spokesman declined to comment on details of the proposed compensation plans.

Citigroup's request comes after Congress, the public and the president blasted pay practices on Wall Street. Bonuses at American International Group Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. ignited political infernos in Washington.
Citigroup has already gotten its own share of criticism for excessive spending, thanks in part to its aborted plans earlier this year to buy a new corporate jet. The company has received $50 billion in taxpayer aid, and the U.S. government is protecting Citigroup against most losses on $301 billion of its assets. The Treasury is poised next month to become Citigroup's largest shareholder, owning as much as 36 percent of its common stock.

Click here to read the full story from the Wall Street Journal. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124096311194466041.html)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/29/citigroup-asking-treasury-ok-pay-bonuses-key-employees/

I can't get too pissed off because at least their asking for permission to do it instead of just being a bunch of jerkholes like AIG.

[SuBe]

They are asking permission to run their business. It is adding to the bureaucy of running a business. What is going to happen to the Workers of that company that fail to get paid for their work? This is the end of this company. It is the begining of a Federally Owned and Opperated Enterprise. Which mean, end of capitalism.

[Kelly]

Economy Rating

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/issue-econ-ep.php

[Marx]

BREAKING NEWS!

MICROSOFT has announced that a second round of job cuts coming.

[The Major]

They are asking permission to run their business. It is adding to the bureaucy of running a business.

That's what they signed up for once they accepted government's help.

What is going to happen to the Workers of that company that fail to get paid for their work?
They were paid. They can get bonuses once the company has paid back the government. Until then they answer to us. Giving them bonuses would be wasting money.

This is the end of this company.

Obama's saving that company. Without the government's aid it would have collapsed.

It is the begining of a Federally Owned and Opperated Enterprise.

This is only temporary. When the financial industry's companies can work on their own the government will stop interfering. Since the financial industry screwed themselves up so much its going to take a while before this happens.

Which mean, end of capitalism.
No, it isn't. Capitalism is on life support the government is giving it. Without it capitalism as you know in America would either dead or dying.

[Marx]

SOME GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS...

THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIALS closed up 164 points to 8574.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Kelly]

A month of that, and I'll be happy.....

[Marx]

A month of that, and I'll be happy.....

Yeah me too.

[VampElvis]

Shortages stir coffee and sugar prices

This time decaf and Splenda won't protect me. Oh woe is me!

Shortages stir coffee and sugar prices

By Javier Blas and Jenny Wiggins in London

Published: May 10 2009 22:30 | Last updated: May 10 2009 22:30

Caffeine addicts face higher prices for their daily fix as the wholesale cost of both coffee and sugar rise sharply because of poor crops and robust demand.

“We are in a dangerous situation,” Andrea Illy, chief executive of Italy’s leading coffee *company, told the Financial Times, warning that prices could “explode” due to supply shortages.

His comments echo those of other industry players – and point to a sharp shift in sentiment among analysts.

Until recently, it was widely assumed that the global economic crisis would damp consumption and prices for coffee. However, that forecast proved wrong, since demand for coffee has remained high, even while consumers have moved from cafés to home drinking.

International coffee prices last week hit a seven-month high, rising to $1.28 per pound, up 22 per cent from their December low, in New York trading.

Meanwhile, the spot price of Colombian coffee – which commands a premium because it is sought by gourmets – jumped to almost $2.20 a pound, a 12-year high, due to supply constraints.

The crop in Colombia was damaged by heavy rains and the scarcity of supplies from the country is now “absolute”, says Néstor Osorio, head of the International Coffee Organisation.

Kraft, owner of the Maxwell House coffee brands, raised retail prices on its Colombian blend by almost 19 per cent last month due to the rising prices of Colombian coffee beans. Nestlé declined to comment on whether it has been raising prices on Nescafé.

Separately, sugar prices in New York and London rose last week to their highest in almost three years. White sugar prices rose above $450 a tonne, a 52 per cent gain from mid-December, as traders bet that India, the world’s largest consumer, will require hefty imports to compensate for the failure of the local crop.

Swings in Indian sugar output, which move the country back and forth from exporter to importer, are a critical factor in global prices. Traders forecast that the country’s output will drop 40 per cent to about 15m tonnes in the 2008-09 season, well below the country’s consumption of about 23m tonnes a year.

Peter de Klerk at London-based sugar merchants Czarnikow said that importing countries will “need to see retail prices rise to match the surge in the cost of sugar in the wholesale market”.

Traders said that the mood at last week’s sugar dinner in New York, the industry’s annual gathering, showed the market is bullish overall. At present, the International Sugar Organisation predicts a second consecutive market deficit in 2009-10.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009

source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/64955332-3d90-11de-a85e-00144feabdc0.html

[BlackLantern]

I don't drink coffee....but I do likes my sugar

[Kelly]

The coffee crunch is going to take a bite out of my pocketbook....but its a sacrifice I will make.

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

CHRYSLER is looking to close upwards of 800 dealerships.

[VampElvis]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

CHRYSLER is looking to close upwards of 800 dealerships.
and GM somewhere around 1100.

[Kelly]

some of them need to be shut down.....they are crappy dealerships.

[BlackLantern]

and some dealerships are dropping GM vehicles by their own volition....I know of 3 here in CT that have done so

[SuBe]

Thousands lose jobs due to higher federal minimum wage

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009/05/14/thousands-lose-jobs-due-to-higher-federal-minimum-wage/

[Paradyme]

Dead People Get Stimulus Checks

Published : Thursday, 14 May 2009, 5:28 PM EDT

MYFOXNY.COM - This week, thousands of people are getting stimulus checks in the mail. The problem is that a lot of them are dead. A Long Island woman was shocked when she checked the mail and received a letter from the U.S. Treasury -- but it wasn't for her.

WATCH DICK BRENNAN'S REPORT (VIDEO, LEFT)

Antoniette Santopadre of Valley Stream was expecting a $250 stimulus check. But when her son finally opened it, they saw that the check was made out to her father, Romolo Romonini, who died in Italy 34 years ago. He'd been a U.S. citizen when he left for Italy in 1933, but only returned to the United States for a seven-month visit in 1969.

The Santopadres are not alone. The Social Security Administration, which sent out 52 million checks, says that some of those checks mistakenly went to dead people because the agency had no record of their death. That amounts to between 8,000 and 10,000 checks for millions of dollars.

The feds blame a rushed schedule, because all the checks have to be cut by June. The strange thing is, some of the checks were made out to people -- like Romonini -- who were never even part of the Social Security system.


http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/your_money/consumer/090514_Dead_People_Get_Stimulus_Checks

[FilmNerdJamie]

Dead People Get Stimulus Checks

"When asked what they planned on purchasing with their stimulus checks, many replied, 'BRAINS!!!!!!!'"

[El_Citrus]

"When asked what they planned on purchasing with their stimulus checks, many replied, 'BRAINS!!!!!!!'"

:lmao:

Dead people get mail all the time, it doesn't surprise me they get money. My dead uncle got a court order for jury duty; I almost wish I could have watched my aunt go off on them.

[SuBe]

Wouldn't he be better if the Government just let you keep the money you earn in the first place, instead of taking it, THEN giving it back? Or giving it to someone that didn't earn it in the first place?

[Marx]

Dead People Get Stimulus Checks

Published : Thursday, 14 May 2009, 5:28 PM EDT

MYFOXNY.COM - This week, thousands of people are getting stimulus checks in the mail. The problem is that a lot of them are dead. A Long Island woman was shocked when she checked the mail and received a letter from the U.S. Treasury -- but it wasn't for her.

WATCH DICK BRENNAN'S REPORT (VIDEO, LEFT)

Antoniette Santopadre of Valley Stream was expecting a $250 stimulus check. But when her son finally opened it, they saw that the check was made out to her father, Romolo Romonini, who died in Italy 34 years ago. He'd been a U.S. citizen when he left for Italy in 1933, but only returned to the United States for a seven-month visit in 1969.

The Santopadres are not alone. The Social Security Administration, which sent out 52 million checks, says that some of those checks mistakenly went to dead people because the agency had no record of their death. That amounts to between 8,000 and 10,000 checks for millions of dollars.

The feds blame a rushed schedule, because all the checks have to be cut by June. The strange thing is, some of the checks were made out to people -- like Romonini -- who were never even part of the Social Security system.


http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/your_money/consumer/090514_Dead_People_Get_Stimulus_Checks

Wow...

:facepalm

[Paradyme]

Federal Government at its best.

[Venom'sDad]

This country is DEAD~~~ :dry:

[chaseter]

WTF!? Dead people are getting more money than me:(

[simplysuperhero]

I think the federal government blew it with this stimulus check thing.

The only stimulation it will create is deposits in the bank or paying down the mounting credit card bills across the country.

The government missed the boat on this. They should have mailed us debit cards with $X on each one, making us spend it than save it.

[Handsome Rob]

I think the federal government blew it with this stimulus check thing.

The only stimulation it will create is deposits in the bank or paying down the mounting credit card bills across the country.

The government missed the boat on this. They should have mailed us debit cards with $X on each one, making us spend it than save it.

While debit cards would have been a good idea for making us spend it on the direct purchase of goods or services, I disagree with the idea of government telling us what to do with our stimulus money on principle alone. But, the choices you listed are actually beneficial to the economy, too. If we choose to put it in the bank, it would earn interest for us while giving the bank that much more money to be able to loan out. Both the bank and the taxpayer benefit. If we put it toward lowering outstanding credit card balances, it would reduce the amount of interest expense we are paying each month. The credit card company reduces its outstanding current liabilities (and credit card companies are ultimately businesses, themselves), and the taxpayer keeps the money he would have otherwise paid in interest expense.

As for me? I bought new tires for my evil SUV with it. I would have had to buy them anyway, though, so you could technically argue that I put it in the bank toward a down payment on a house (which is where all of my excess money goes at the end of the month). So, I'm reducing the amount I'll have to borrow for the house, thus reducing my interest expense over the life of my future loan.

[Ugfugly]

According to CNN gas prices going up is a sign of an improving economy. The reason the gas prices are going up is because the oil industry believes that the economy has finally hit rock bottom and they are expecting an increase in consumption in the near future. Hence the rising gas prices. They finished the news segment with a comparison from last year saying "at least it wasn't as bad". And they accuse Fox of being "faux" news. :whatever:

[Kelly]

Speculators are again putting their 2 cents into the gas prices, THAT is why they are going up....

[Marx]

Speculators are again putting their 2 cents into the gas prices, THAT is why they are going up....
Exactly, Kel.

[Anita18]

Speculators are again putting their 2 cents into the gas prices, THAT is why they are going up....
Friggin' speculators. :cmad:

I watched the Frontline episode on Bernie Madoff yesterday. (You can watch it online here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/madoff/view/ ) There are not enough facepalms in the universe to describe what was happening right under Wall Street's (and the SEC's) nose. Everyone who was involved and/or turned a blind eye in return for $$$$$ is disgusting.

I mean, making $10 million a year and not having any idea of where the money is coming from?! "God wanted me to be rich." :whatever:

[SuBe]

Letter from a Dodge Dealership Owner from Florida.

My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu (http://www.sunshinedodgeisuzu.com/), a family owned and operated business in Melbourne, Florida. My family bought and paid for this automobile franchise 35 years ago in 1974. I am the second generation to manage this business.

We currently employ 50+ people and before the economic slowdown we employed over 70 local people. We are active in the community and the local chamber of commerce. We deal with several dozen local vendors on a day to day basis and many more during a month. All depend on our business for part of their livelihood. We are financially strong with great respect in the market place and community. We have strong local presence and stability.

I work every day the store is open, nine to ten hours a day. I know most of our customers and all our employees. Sunshine Dodge is my life.

On Thursday, May 14, 2009 I was notified that my Dodge franchise, that we purchased, will be taken away from my family on June 9, 2009 without compensation and given to another dealer at no cost to them. My new vehicle inventory consists of 125 vehicles with a financed balance of 3 million dollars. This inventory becomes impossible to sell with no factory incentives beyond June 9, 2009. Without the Dodge franchise we can no longer sell a new Dodge as "new," nor will we be able to do any warranty service work. Additionally, my Dodge parts inventory, (approximately $300,000.) is virtually worthless without the ability to perform warranty service. There is no offer from Chrysler to buy back the vehicles or parts inventory.

Our facility was recently totally renovated at Chrysler's insistence, incurring a multi-million dollar debt in the form of a mortgage at Sun Trust Bank.

HOW IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CAN THIS HAPPEN?

THIS IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY

This is beyond imagination! My business is being stolen from me through NO FAULT OF OUR OWN. We did NOTHING wrong.

This atrocity will most likely force my family into bankruptcy. This will also cause our 50+ employees to be unemployed. How will they provide for their families? This is a total economic disaster.

HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

I beseech your help, and look forward to your reply. Thank you.

Sincerely,

George C. Joseph
President & Owner
Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu

[Kelly]

Yeah, and he is one of MANY.......

And people wonder why we are upset with the decisions of THIS administration?

Wow.....

[BlackLantern]

Yeah, and he is one of MANY.......

And people wonder why we are upset with the decisions of THIS administration?

Wow.....

so if I'm reading that correctly...it's a Dodge/Isuzu dealership and Dodge is taking the Dodge part away and giving it to another dealership??

[Kelly]

so if I'm reading that correctly...it's a Dodge/Isuzu dealership and Dodge is taking the Dodge part away and giving it to another dealership??

yes, without compensation to the private owner of that dealership.....after requiring him to make costly upgrades to his dealership which now has him in debt, and no way to pay for it.

[SoulManX]

Letter from a Dodge Dealership Owner from Florida.

OH MAN that is just sad to hear...

[BlackLantern]

yes, without compensation to the private owner of that dealership.....after requiring him to make costly upgrades to his dealership which now has him in debt, and no way to pay for it.

I was under the impression that a franchise is still the property of the parent company....like if you open a Subway franchise, Subway has the authority to close it or move it at their discretion....

[Kelly]

I was under the impression that a franchise is still the property of the parent company....like if you open a Subway franchise, Subway has the authority to close it or move it at their discretion....

But he paid that franchise for the ownership, he paid for those cars, he paid for the upgrades....

he gets nothing....in return.

he now has debt without the means to pay it off...

[BlackLantern]

But he paid that franchise for the ownership, he paid for those cars, he paid for the upgrades....

he gets nothing....in return.

he now has debt without the means to pay it off...

Maybe I misunderstand how franchises work...I'll have to look that up. My initial understanding is that when you pay for a franchise, you're basically paying for usage of a brand but the parent company still owns that brand.

[Kelly]

Maybe I misunderstand how franchises work...I'll have to look that up. My initial understanding is that when you pay for a franchise, you're basically paying for usage of a brand but the parent company still owns that brand.

They own the "brand" they do not pay for the land, the building, the parts, the labor, the employment, etc.....

[BlackLantern]

They own the "brand" they do not pay for the land, the building, the parts, the labor, the employment, etc.....

OK....I'm not disagreeing or anything, I'm just trying to figure out how this works....so if it is Dodges brand, do they have the discretion to do with it as they please?? or does that all depend on what was in the initial franchise agreement?

[zanos]

Yeah, and he is one of MANY.......

And people wonder why we are upset with the decisions of THIS administration?

Wow.....

Um....huh? What does this have to do with the government if Chysler is the one doing this to him?

[BlackLantern]

Um....huh? What does this have to do with the government if Chysler is the one doing this to him?

same question here...

[Anita18]

Um....huh? What does this have to do with the government if Chysler is the one doing this to him?
Yeah, it's a private company. Even if it's subsidized by the government (I've lost track, are they? Haha), it's not like the USPS. Chrysler seems to be the one being pricks, it's not like Obama himself stole the dealership from this guy and handed it to someone else.

Telling. Very telling. :cwink:

[Kelly]

OK....I'm not disagreeing or anything, I'm just trying to figure out how this works....so if it is Dodges brand, do they have the discretion to do with it as they please?? or does that all depend on what was in the initial franchise agreement?

This may help....http://www.bison.com/articles_LegalDady_12012005

[Kelly]

Yeah, it's a private company. Even if it's subsidized by the government (I've lost track, are they? Haha), it's not like the USPS. Chrysler seems to be the one being pricks, it's not like Obama himself stole the dealership from this guy and handed it to someone else.

Telling. Very telling. :cwink:

The government just told Chrysler how much they could spend on advertising, you don't think they have their hands in other areas?



http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5035

[StorminNorman]

Forty-five percent (45%) of Americans say the rest of the new government spending authorized in the $787-billion economic stimulus plan should now be canceled. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 36% disagree and 20% are not sure.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/45_say_cancel_rest_of_stimulus_spending

Other highlights:

However, only 31% of Americans believe the new government spending in the stimulus package creates new jobs. Forty-eight percent (48%) say the stimulus spending does not create jobs, and 21% are not sure.


Americans have mixed feelings about whether speeding up the new government spending in the stimulus package will help the economy. Thirty-nine percent (39%) say the increased spending will be good for the economy, but 44% say it will be bad. Eight percent (8%) think it will have no impact.


Only 31% of U.S. voters believe the economic stimulus package has helped the economy. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/31_say_stimulus_package_helped_27_say_it_hurt_econ omy) That's down from 38% when it first passed in February (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/38_say_stimulus_plan_will_help_economy).
For the first time in years, voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on the handling of the economy. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues/trust_on_issues)
Fifty-three percent (53%) of Americans believe that increases in government spending are generally bad for the economy (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics2/77_see_politicians_unwillingness_to_cut_government _spending_as_bigger_problem_than_voter_resistance_ to_tax_hikes). For nearly four-out-of-five U.S. voters, the unwillingness of politicians to control government spending is a bigger problem than the public’s resistance to more taxes.

[Malice]

This is going to bite mr obama
The deficit over anything else I think

The Stimulus hasent done a damn thing but cost me money

[Paradoxium]

Well not necessarily, if you are hedging against Mr. Obama :woot:

[Malice]

Well not necessarily, if you are hedging against Mr. Obama :woot:

ehh?

[Paradoxium]

Wrong term, I mean bet against. Let's for an example say some of us invested in GG (GoldCorp) after Obama won the election :woot:

[Paradoxium]

What I guess I am saying is, it is possible to profit from Obama failures and impending failures. If you have the confidence and resolve that he will fail. So far, all of his actions seem to be profitable... unfortunately :funny:

[Kelly]

My niece works for a company that does something with "failing banks" not sure what, don't understand, but she makes good money. She's having a great time right now.

[StorminNorman]

Fifty-one percent (51%) of Americans favor an across-the-board tax cut for all Americans to stimulate the U.S. economy, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.


Thirty-four percent (34%) oppose such a tax cut, and 15% are undecided.
Fifty-nine percent (59%) of both Republicans and adults not affiliated with either major political party think an across-the-board tax cut is a good idea. Democrats are fairly evenly divided on the wisdom of such a tax cut.


During Election 2008, then-candidate Obama promised to cut taxes for 95% of all Americans. So far, just 26% of adults believe President Obama has delivered on that promise. Forty-three percent (43%) say he has not and 31% are not sure.


Democrats are more likely than others to believe the President has delivered on the tax cut promise.

Thirty-six percent (36%) of voters now believe their own personal taxes will rise under Obama. That ties the highest level found since he’s been in the White House, and is up five points from the week he was inaugurated as president in January.

Americans consistently say that tax cuts are good for the economy.

The economic stimulus plan approved in February included $288 billion in tax cuts. Only 20% believe those cuts should be cancelled. However, 45% favor stopping the new government spending from the stimulus plan.

Nearly two-thirds of voters prefer a government that offers fewer services and has lower taxes.

Seventy-seven percent (77%) say the bigger problem in the United States is the unwillingness of politicians to control government spending rather than Americans' unwillingness to pay higher taxes.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/june_2009/51_say_cut_everybody_s_taxes_to_stimulate_the_econ omy

[BlackLantern]

no more tax cuts....its time to toughen up America

[Bill]

The government just told Chrysler how much they could spend on advertising, you don't think they have their hands in other areas?



http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5035

They accepted government dollars and are months away from bankruptcy. Why are they spending so much on advertising when they have employees that are going to need to be compensated?

Want to run your business your way? Run it right and don't accept government aid.

[SuBe]

Visual Representation of the Unemployment Rate (UR), Expected UR with Stimulus Package, and Without UR Stimulus Package. Interesting what happens when you let the Children in charge.

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTVmZGYxMDJkNDJkZTU1NWMyMDMyMDFhNTRhZDZiZjU=

[Marx]

MORE BAD ECONOMIC NEWS...

EDDIE BAUER HOLDINGS have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

[Mr. Green]

So I guess Obama, and by Obama I mean the central bankers that tell him what to do, are coming up with new ways to give the Fed more power, devalue our currency, and destroy our economy. They have what appears to be a strong argument.

Now watch Ron Paul obliterate that argument with truth.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pvH1ZJnGUxs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pvH1ZJnGUxs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Venom'sDad]

Congressman Ron Paul. :applaud:applaud:applaud:bow::applaud:applaud:appl aud


Great link Mr. Green

And the Republican Establishment and their Mothpieces(Rush, Hannity, Levin, Beck, amongst others) totally ridicule this guy doing the Republican Primary as a nut-bag. This is why the Republican Party is dead... they claim to have principles when they truely have none. Why most resign their post after numerous scandals. There is no Republican or Democrat.... just Republicrats.... leading this country to European Style Socialism.

And you all know it. There is no "Conspiracy". You know it.

Good bye Constitution and welcome to the birth of a New World.

[Mr. Green]

Exactly. (Most) Politicians are like paid actors. Obama vs McCain? The debates were a JOKE with those two because they agree on just about EVERYTHING. Getting mad at Obama for running our country into the ground is like getting mad at the kid behind the register at McDonald's because their food isn't healthy enough.

Obama doesn't call the shots and he never did. The central bankers tell him what to do and he does it and he goes on national television and lies to the entire country and people just mindlessly except whatever the news channels spout at them.

Two things:

1.) TV is bull****. If you want truth about what's going on, don't look for it on the news.

2.) Quit voting for the "lesser of two evils". It completely defeats the purpose of what a republic is all about. Vote for people who represent you or don't vote.

[Paradyme]

Congressman Ron Paul. :applaud:applaud:applaud:bow::applaud:applaud:appl aud


Great link Mr. Green

And the Republican Establishment and their Mothpieces(Rush, Hannity, Levin, Beck, amongst others) totally ridicule this guy doing the Republican Primary as a nut-bag. This is why the Republican Party is dead... they claim to have principles when they truely have none. Why most resign their post after numerous scandals. There is no Republican or Democrat.... just Republicrats.... leading this country to European Style Socialism.

And you all know it. There is no "Conspiracy". You know it.

Good bye Constitution and welcome to the birth of a New World.

Not a mouthpiece for the Republican Party. If you listened to his show either of them it would be clear.

Exactly. (Most) Politicians are like paid actors. Obama vs McCain? The debates were a JOKE with those two because they agree on just about EVERYTHING. Getting mad at Obama for running our country into the ground is like getting mad at the kid behind the register at McDonald's because their food isn't healthy enough.

Obama doesn't call the shots and he never did. The central bankers tell him what to do and he does it and he goes on national television and lies to the entire country and people just mindlessly except whatever the news channels spout at them.

Two things:

1.) TV is bull****. If you want truth about what's going on, don't look for it on the news.

2.) Quit voting for the "lesser of two evils". It completely defeats the purpose of what a republic is all about. Vote for people who represent you or don't vote.

In fact he, Beck, has advocated this for quite some time now.

[Mr. Green]

Yeah Beck is right about some things but my point stands: mainstream media is mainstream media and come election time or time to push through some legislation that will take away prosperity and/or freedom, every single channel is going to be pushing the same agenda.

[Kelly]

If a third party can give me something that is less of a joke than the 2 main candidates, I would vote for him/her. That hasn't happened yet....it was fairly close with Ross Perot, but I know the man as a Texas business man, and he scared the hell outta me thinking he might could be President, but I liked his platform as far as the economy.

I have to like the person as a "leader" as well, not just their economic plan. In 2000 I would have voted for McCain had he gone Independent. He chickened out, and again chickened out in 2008.

True Independents have a hard time when it comes to President.....we very seldom hear what is needed to make a clean vote.

Independent voters can be won over with solid, strong fiscal conservatism.

If they candidate starts spouting from the past, and pandering to certain groups in the areas of social issues.....they will lose that independent vote as fast as they won it.

[Shaolin Kenobi]

sensational! hehe.

[Mr. Green]

If a third party can give me something that is less of a joke than the 2 main candidates, I would vote for him/her. That hasn't happened yet....it was fairly close with Ross Perot, but I know the man as a Texas business man, and he scared the hell outta me thinking he might could be President, but I liked his platform as far as the economy.

I have to like the person as a "leader" as well, not just their economic plan. In 2000 I would have voted for McCain had he gone Independent. He chickened out, and again chickened out in 2008.

True Independents have a hard time when it comes to President.....we very seldom hear what is needed to make a clean vote.

Independent voters can be won over with solid, strong fiscal conservatism.

If they candidate starts spouting from the past, and pandering to certain groups in the areas of social issues.....they will lose that independent vote as fast as they won it.
I look for someone who isn't a lying piece of ****. I don't know how many people here have watched any debates but when you do, you can tell 100% when the candidates lie and/or avoid answering then question.

How ANYONE would actually vote for someone who does that is completely beyond me. And the only person I saw NOT doing that and actually answering the questions was Ron Paul.

Seriously, he DOMINATED the debates. Watch.
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z7paYyU0WrE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z7paYyU0WrE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

And if anyone thinks that Ron Paul wouldn't have made a better President than McCain OR Obama, quit smoking crack.

And if people **** up the election by voting for ANOTHER paid actor, I'm moving. I hate it here anyway.

[VampElvis]

I would say he looked more like the crazy uncle standing in the corner talking to himself. He had some good ideas and he seems to tell the truth, though I do question his integrity somewhat from those associated with his campaign.

[Marx]

I look for someone who isn't a lying piece of ****. I don't know how many people here have watched any debates but when you do, you can tell 100% when the candidates lie and/or avoid answering then question.

How ANYONE would actually vote for someone who does that is completely beyond me. And the only person I saw NOT doing that and actually answering the questions was Ron Paul.

Seriously, he DOMINATED the debates. Watch.
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z7paYyU0WrE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z7paYyU0WrE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

And if anyone thinks that Ron Paul wouldn't have made a better President than McCain OR Obama, quit smoking crack.

And if people **** up the election by voting for ANOTHER paid actor, I'm moving. I hate it here anyway.

Ron Paul has alot of good ideas...but he tends to come across with a certain level of crazy.

[Kelly]

As I said in my post, I'm looking for someone who is a "leader".....who can not only lead our country, but the free world....


Ron Paul doesn't come anywhere near that level for me. You can talk the best ideas around, but if you are not able to move people to these ideas.....then you are not the leader I speak of......he's a good guy, and IMO where he needs to be.....I would never vote for him as President.

[Mr. Green]

Ron Paul has alot of good ideas...but he tends to come across with a certain level of crazy.
What exactly is crazy about him? That he isn't a lying douche? That he's always right on every issue every time he's interviewed?
As I said in my post, I'm looking for someone who is a "leader".....who can not only lead our country, but the free world....


Ron Paul doesn't come anywhere near that level for me. You can talk the best ideas around, but if you are not able to move people to these ideas.....then you are not the leader I speak of......he's a good guy, and IMO where he needs to be.....I would never vote for him as President.
That is illogical. What do presidents need to do except follow the Constitution and make the right decisions? You're also extremely vague. Lead? What specifically would he need to do that he is incapable of doing? It's not enough that he understands every issue, the Constitution, and economic policy?

Well guess what, leader or not, everyone's going to start wishing that they voted for him when this joblessness and weak currency catches up with us. All the people who voted against RP during the primary, all the people who voted for Obama or McCain -- every one of them is going to be hurting.

I have a feeling that most Americans would prefer a Ron Paul presidency to the war, destruction of civil liberties, and ruined currency that they have brought on themselves. They brought it. On. THEMSELVES.

I hope all the people who ignored the warnings of RP and others like him because they were pro war are drafted, and/or their family and loved ones are drafted, so they can see the horrific senselessness of it all.

I hope everyone who ignored his warnings about fiat currency and the Fed lose their jobs and starve in the streets.

I hope everyone who supported Obama gets to see the inside of a FEMA camp and experience life without due process.

I can't wait. It's going to happen. I'm going to laugh my ass off.

[Kelly]

What exactly is crazy about him? That he isn't a lying douche? That he's always right on every issue every time he's interviewed?

That is illogical. What do presidents need to do except follow the Constitution and make the right decisions? You're also extremely vague. Lead? What specifically would he need to do that he is incapable of doing? It's not enough that he understands every issue, the Constitution, and economic policy?

Well guess what, leader or not, everyone's going to start wishing that they voted for him when this joblessness and weak currency catches up with us. All the people who voted against RP during the primary, all the people who voted for Obama or McCain -- every one of them is going to be hurting.

I have a feeling that most Americans would prefer a Ron Paul presidency to the war, destruction of civil liberties, and ruined currency that they have brought on themselves. They brought it. On. THEMSELVES.

I hope all the people who ignored the warnings of RP and others like him because they were pro war are drafted, and/or their family and loved ones are drafted, so they can see the horrific senselessness of it all.

I hope everyone who ignored his warnings about fiat currency and the Fed lose their jobs and starve in the streets.

I hope everyone who supported Obama gets to see the inside of a FEMA camp and experience life without due process.

I can't wait. It's going to happen. I'm going to laugh my ass off.

That is illogical.....

and, I hope, you never use "I hope" again....:cwink:

[Venom'sDad]

Not a mouthpiece for the Republican Party. If you listened to his show either of them it would be clear.

Oh... I am very familiar what they says. ;)

[Paradyme]

Oh... I am very familiar what they says. ;)

Sounds like you don't to me unless I misread your original post.

[Paradoxium]

STIMULUS WATCH: Obama announces job-counting rules (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2009369817_apusstimuluscountingjobs.html?syndicati on=rss)Attention workers: If you're getting federal stimulus money, stand up and prepare to be counted. And no cheating.

The Obama administration issued its long-awaited rules for tallying jobs Monday and warned that local politicians trying to inflate their numbers would surely be caught.

As part of the $787 billion stimulus law, governors, mayors and contractors must begin reporting job numbers to the federal government in October. The data collected could provide the most accurate count of workers employed by stimulus money, a number that is expected to be far more precise than the murky and unverifiable promise that 3.5 million jobs will be created by the end of next year.

But for months, there has been confusion over what the rules would be. What's a created job? A saved job? Could a construction worker be counted twice if he worked two part-time contracts? On highway jobs, do you count just the laborers, or also the extra wait staff at the nearby lunch spot?

Under the rules released Monday, the White House told governors, mayors and contractors to keep it simple.

"Just count the people being paid out of Recovery Act dollars," said Rob Nabors, deputy director at the White House budget office.

To avoid double-counting, a job means a full-time, full-year job. So a student working a 9-to-5 job for his three-month summer vacation will be counted as one-fourth of a job. The part-time teacher who works all year is half a job. And the full-time highway contractor who works all year is one job.Since Obama signed the stimulus bill, the nation has shed more than 1.6 million jobs. The president says the stimulus has created or saved 150,000 jobs, but White House advisers acknowledge the estimate is based on a formula that was never intended to count jobs.So by taking stimulus money it means you created or saved a job. Nevermind the fact, this said contractor could have gotten a gig that is non-government/private and carried on. Meaning there is no evidence this Company A or Contractor B would have went bankrupt if they hadn't gotten the stimulus money.

Ladies and Gentlemen, remember this every time Obama talks about jobs saved and created with the stimulus plan.

Another example of cooking the numbers to look good.

[Marx]

This belongs in the Economy Thread.

Merging.

[Venom'sDad]

Economy Collaspe (http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/23/ron-paul-obamas-goal-is-economic-collapse/) Link has an audio clip at bottom of page.... Interesting.

Ron Paul, the popular Republican Congressman from Texas, is ripping into the president and Congress for what he sees as their “goal” with round after round of stimulus: complete economic collapse.

“From their spending habits, an economic collapse seems to be the goal of Congress and this administration,” he said in his June 22, 2009, weekly address.

He added that Democrats who voted for the president’s war funding request, which gave an additional $106 billion to military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq — among other, unrelated items — were actually voting in favor of the wars, not just authorization of the president’s agenda.

He called it an affront to everyone who believed a vote for Obama was a vote for a peace candidate.

The president’s insistence on including an additional $108 billion in asset exchange with the International Monetary Fund is merely “buying global oppression,” he said.

Paul added that, “this [bill sent] $660 million to Gaza, $555 million to Israel, $310 million to Egypt, $300 million to Jordan and $420 million to Mexico; and some $889 million will be sent to the United Nations for so-called peace keeping missions.”

In other words, the latest U.S. war funding was an “International bailout,” he said.

The legislation’s provisions for the IMF included 100 billion dollars for the New Arrangements to Borrow (NAB), a credit instrument providing the multilateral institution with additional resources to deal with exceptional risks to the stability of the international monetary system.

They also include an expansion of the nation’s special drawing rights by five billion SDRs, adding roughly eight billion dollars to the IMF’s financial firepower.

The 100 billion dollars for the NAB acts as a credit line for the IMF in case member countries need emergency loans that exceed the institution’s resources. As such, the money is not considered an immediate budget expense.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) had proposed to strip out the IMF funds, but his measure was defeated in May by a vote of 64-30.

“Not only does sending money to the IMF hurt citizens here, evidence shows that it even hurts those it pretends to help,” Paul said. “Along with IMF loans come IMF required policy changes called ’structural adjustment programs,’ which amount to forced Keynesianism. This is the very fantasy-infused economic model that brought our own country to its knees.”

This audio is from Congressman Ron Paul’s weekly address, released June 22, 2009.

[dnno1]

Economists Paul Krugman vs John Taylor on the Economy:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/06/28/gps.krugman.taylor.econ.cnn?iref=videosearch

You decide who won.

[BlackLantern]

Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 100+ years

[Kelly]

150 to be exact......awesome news.

[BlackLantern]

I wasn't sure of the exact number...but yeah, that's a long ass time

[Kelly]

I wasn't sure of the exact number...but yeah, that's a long ass time


The defense asked for 12, the prosecution asked for 126...the judge gave him 150......dayum...

[BlackLantern]

apparently the judge said that Madoffs crimes were 'evil of the highest order' and people like him who think the rule of law doesn't apply to them should take heed of this case

[Kelly]

Oh hell yeah, he was definitely a "don't ever forget what happened to this guy, case"....and he deserves every damn year.



ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhh, and now the govenment is saying to the people that pulled money out early.....they have to pay that money back because it was dirty money. WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????

[Paradyme]

Mr. Sunshine? Ron Paul Wins Support to Audit Fed Reserve

All of a sudden, Congress is paying close attention to Ron Paul.

The feisty congressman from Texas, whose insurgent "Ron Paul Revolution" presidential campaign rankled Republican leaders last year, now has the GOP House leadership on his side -- backing a measure that generated paltry support when he first introduced it 26 years ago.

Paul, as of Tuesday, has won 245 co-sponsors to a bill that would require a full-fledged audit of the Federal Reserve by the end of 2010.

Paul attracted just 18 co-sponsors when he authored a similar bill, which died, in 1983. While the impact Fed policies have on inflation is once again a concern, fears about loose monetary policy and excessive federal spending appear even more widespread in 2009.

"In the past, I never got much support, but I think it's the financial crisis obviously that's drawing so much attention to it, and people want to know more about the Federal Reserve," Paul told FOXNews.com.

With the Federal Reserve holding interest rates at rock-bottom levels, pumping trillions into the economy and now poised to have new powers to oversee the financial system under President Obama's proposed regulatory overhaul, Paul said lawmakers want transparency.

"If they give them a lot more power and there's no more transparency, that'll be a disaster," he said.

The bill would call for the comptroller general in the Government Accountability Office to audit the Fed and report those findings to Congress. The GAO's ability to conduct such audits now is severely restricted.

A slew of top Republicans are backing the bill, as are many Democrats.

"Ron Paul has the right idea on this," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who supports similar legislation in the Senate. "I'm just hoping we can get a clear audit. ... We need to know what they're up to."

House Republican Leader John Boehner, who signed on as a co-sponsor this month, wrote in a recent blog post that the "lack of transparency and accountability" regarding federal dollars committed by the Fed and Treasury Department raise "serious concerns" and make an audit critical.

"The Federal Reserve Transparency Act would remove all of these restrictions, and allow GAO to get real answers from the Federal Reserve to protect American taxpayers," Boehner wrote.

Unfortunately for Paul, the bill appears to be idling in the House Financial Services Committee, which is chaired by Barney Frank, D-Mass. The bill has been sitting there, gathering co-sponsors, since Paul introduced it in late February.

"You've kind of got to rely on the Democratic leadership (to move the bill along)," a Boehner aide said. "I haven't heard a lot of support from Chairman Frank."

Calls to Frank's office were not returned.

Paul acknowledged that his bill hasn't advanced but said Frank has "promised" him he will deal with his bill and is willing to give it a hearing. Paul said it's easily got the "momentum" to pass the full House.

A representative with the Federal Reserve could not be reached for comment.

Obama, though, voiced confidence in Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke last Tuesday and defended the Fed's overall ability to regulate effectively as well as his proposal to give the body more power.

"If you look at what we've proposed, we are not so much expanding the Fed's power as we are focusing what the Fed needs to do to prevent the kinds of crises that are happening again," Obama said. "We want that power to be available so that taxpayers aren't on the hook."

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., introduced a bill similar to Paul's in the Senate in March, which so far has attracted just three co-sponsors -- DeMint and Republican Sens. David Vitter of Louisiana and Mike Crapo of Idaho.

But DeMint told FOX News last week that the measure would have a good chance of passing the Senate if supporters can push Paul's to a vote, which he said would be successful, in the House.

"I think if we can get that much attention on this bill, I don't believe senators could vote against it, if people knew what they were voting for because everyone is suspicious of the Federal Reserve," DeMint said.

Paul's underlying goal is to abolish the Federal Reserve, which he finds contemptible.

"I blame almost everything on the Fed because they create the bubbles, they create the credit," Paul said.

But the move to require an audit, which Paul described as "neutral," puts him a bit more in the congressional mainstream.

That's a change of pace. The long-time congressman's GOP primary bid was decidedly outside the mainstream. His campaign drew enthusiastic support last year, and though it wasn't enough to pose an electoral threat to the top candidates, he even staged his own September counter-convention in Minneapolis -- down the road from the official Republican National Convention in St. Paul. His "Rally for the Republic" drew more than 10,000 supporters and was complete with a rock band and a slew of faux-delegates wielding signs for their states.

Paul frequently plays the role of party and congressional outsider. Most recently, he was the lone "no" vote on last Friday's resolution to condemn the Iranian government's crackdown on protesters.

He cited constitutional concerns in that vote, as he has in his criticism of the Fed and a slew of other issues.

"The whole process is unconstitutional. There is no legal authority to operate such a monetary system," Paul said in February, in a statement calling for Washington to "end the Fed." He introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act the following day.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/24/mr-popular-rep-paul-wins-supporters-fed-sunshine/


Yes, yes, Y-E-S.

[Kelly]

That is definitely a start....a good start.

[BlackLantern]

also a great political move to put support behind it considering the times we are in

[Grievous]

150 to be exact......awesome news.
His family needs to get it next.

[VampElvis]

Mr. Sunshine? Ron Paul Wins Support to Audit Fed Reserve.
OK 'Dox, dash all hopes and tell us why this won't work. or give me good news today and tell me why it will.

[dnno1]

And if anyone thinks that Ron Paul wouldn't have made a better President than McCain OR Obama, quit smoking crack.

And if people **** up the election by voting for ANOTHER paid actor, I'm moving. I hate it here anyway.

I don't have to think. The plain truth is that Ron Paul did not win the candidacy for President. That is the most important part of being in that position, and he couldn't do it. BTW, I don't smoke crack thank you.

[BlackLantern]

I don't have to think. The plain truth is that Ron Paul did not win the candidacy for President. That is the most important part of being in that position, and he couldn't do it. BTW, I don't smoke crack thank you.

I don't even know how he performed in any of the primaries....Im with Kel, I think he has some great ideas, but he isn't a leader

[Malice]

I had to ask what you all think on this one.
Using the following link (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711)

Here are the ones with massive shortfalls (only those in the billions):
Arizona - 2.6 billion
Caliufornia - 15 billion
Maryland - 1.2 billion
Michigan - 2.0 billion
New York - 2.2 billion
North Carolina - 4.4 billion
Ohio - 1.1 billion
Oregon - 4.2 billion

What do you think, about having the Federal government bailing out those states?

For me...hell no. Why should I have to pay for the mis-management of California or New York?

Same goes for companies as well.

What do you think?

[Paradoxium]

If Progressives (ala those in Cali) are good at anything, that is to "Progressively" increase debt burdens. And they have a supposedly "moderate" Republican in power. I can't wait to see the Democrat get into power there and turn California into kingdom come. They should dump all the terrorists from Gitmo into Cali while we are at it :woot:

Honestly Mal, what kind of responses were you going to expect? Libertarians and conservatives are going to say it is a big nono. Progressives just say nothing and pretend it is not a big deal, or use some crazy economic theory to justify higher debts as great investments that will payoff (which it won't but you can't prove without waiting forever).

[Kelly]

If I were a resident in that state, I would want to know what new power the Federal Government now has over me....

And as a taxpayer, that lives in a state (without an income tax) that seems to be able to hold its own, I really don't think my taxpayer money should bailout a state (with an income tax) that seems to not be able to hold its own.

But, if you are a state worker in those states, well I'm sure you are happy, happy.....you get paid.

[hippie_hunter]

I had to ask what you all think on this one.
Using the following link (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711)

Here are the ones with massive shortfalls (only those in the billions):
Arizona - 2.6 billion
Caliufornia - 15 billion
Maryland - 1.2 billion
Michigan - 2.0 billion
New York - 2.2 billion
North Carolina - 4.4 billion
Ohio - 1.1 billion
Oregon - 4.2 billion

What do you think, about having the Federal government bailing out those states?

For me...hell no. Why should I have to pay for the mis-management of California or New York?

Same goes for companies as well.

What do you think?

California's monetary problems go beyond just mis-management of government. The people of California themselves led their state into the mess they are in by not only electing incompetent legislators who did nothing but spend money and creating a mess of a tax code and had no desire to fix it, but also approved of referendum after referendum that pissed away money.

This isn't just Californian government biting itself in the ass, it's Californian culture biting itself in the ass.

And then you have New York which is poorly managed.

However, you have states like Michigan and Ohio which are genuinely in trouble due to hard times and economic hardship. Michigan in general because of the decline of the auto industry. Unlike New York and California, Michigan really didn't put itself in the poor position it is in right now. While New York and California are certainly undeserving of the money, can we really say the same for states like Ohio and Michigan?

[Kelly]

But if this goes the way the other bailouts went, the people that REALLY need the money......won't get it.

Just like small business has pretty much been handed a "f*** you" from this administration as far the bailouts and stimulus....I think the people of these states will be getting the same treatment. Now mind you, if they are part of a "green industry" or they have a major lobby in D.C. they will probably be sitting pretty...

[Venom'sDad]

California's monetary problems go beyond just mis-management of government. The people of California themselves led their state into the mess they are in by not only electing incompetent legislators who did nothing but spend money and creating a mess of a tax code and had no desire to fix it, but also approved of referendum after referendum that pissed away money.


That's completely not true. The problem with Cal's problems lies with illegal immigration and entitlements. Taxes are raised every year to pay the state entitlements for it entire population in which a huge percentage who does not pay taxes(illegal immigrants). It is not mis-management... it the law according to Cal's state constitution. Thank you Progressives.

California needs amend the states constitution, freeze spending, and enforce immigration laws... amongst other things as well. A Balance Budget Amendment would be nice for all states and the Fed.

[hippie_hunter]

That's completely not true. The problem with Cal's problems lies with illegal immigration and entitlements. Taxes are raised every year to pay the state entitlements for it entire population in which a huge percentage who does not pay taxes(illegal immigrants). It is not mis-management... it the law according to Cal's state constitution. Thank you Progressives.

California needs amend the states constitution, freeze spending, and enforce immigration laws... amongst other things as well. A Balance Budget Amendment would be nice for all states and the Fed.

California's problem lies with the fact that 1% of the population there pays 48% of the state's income taxes (and during hard economic times where the top 1% is getting less in bonuses and whatnot, that's going to heavily affect the income stream along with the fact that the rich are going to put their money elsewhere because they are overtaxed), illegal immigrants not paying taxes, and the fact that they refuse to stop spending (the entitlements that you mention along with a lot of other things).

But it goes beyond just California's government which pisses away money. California's voters also approve to piss away money by not only continually elect people that chose to piss away money, but also in ballots, referendums, and initiatives concerning funding certain projects.

Also another thing to note is that where the most home foreclosures happened when the housing market crashed was within California. Spending to oblivion is not a political problem in California, it's a cultural problem. The people of California aren't going to approve of amending the state constitution, freezing spending, or a balanced budget. This is a culture that acts as if money grows on trees and somewhere, out there, there's a magical money tree that will solve all of their problems.

This is the one state that is the least deserving of a bailout, because this is a culture that is never going to stop until they learn that being overly progressive and how they view money is what put them in the mess to begin with.

[Venom'sDad]

I don't know where you get that 1% figure.

Look, this thing about a cultural of spending does not just apply to California. Lets get real about that. That's a nationwide problem. The bottomline, illegal immigration and entitlement is what destroying California's economy and goes hand-2-hand in draining it's base. There was a reason why everyone migrated to the Goldern State. Fix those two primary issues, and Cal's economy will grow again.

[hippie_hunter]

I don't know where you get that 1% figure.
I read the Economist where I first heard of it, I read on other places where they say the same.

Look, this thing about a cultural of spending does not just apply to California. Lets get real about that. That's a nationwide problem. The bottomline, illegal immigration and entitlement is what destroying California's economy and goes hand-2-hand in draining it's base. There was a reason why everyone migrated to the Goldern State. Fix those two primary issues, and Cal's economy will grow again.
Sure it doesn't just apply to California, but they are nowhere near as bad as them and can be fixed, unlike California which is outright hopeless. It's so bad in California that more than just illegal immigration and entitlement needs to be fixed in order for that state to get back on it's feet.

[enterthemadness]

Um...what is the worst case here for these states? I live in NC, but will move to Cali in Oct for film school.

[hippie_hunter]

Um...what is the worst case here for these states? I live in NC, but will move to Cali in Oct for film school.

California just gave out IOUs instead of income tax returns.

[StorminNorman]

Someone can probably make a fortune buying California IOU's.

[Kelly]

The state would have a huge ass problem if they sent me an IOU....

I have a contract that states exactly how they are supposed to pay me, and when.....so they would be paying me later, with a lawsuit attached....

[Paradoxium]

Um...what is the worst case here for these states? I live in NC, but will move to Cali in Oct for film school.
Call me crazy but he amount of money you spend on film school, you are better off using that money and making a short or two (or a full film), learning the ropes with hands on experience, and reading the literature at your own pace. This is one of those industries where formal qualification will never trump pure experience and talent.

If in theory a more tax-happy governor comes into power, making a film in California is a really bad idea as well. You are better off moving to Vancouver or Prague to get your cheaper leads/extras. If you are savvy you can get people to act for free in your films (ie. reference letters).

[Paradoxium]

Hippie is correct, California is ground zero for the mortgage meltdown. They are responsibly for ****ing up a chunk of the economy. Arizona is a close second (not surprisingly a lot of people from Cali move there). California has been nothing but fail when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Cali is like the spoiled brat that flushes his/her family inheritance before he/she hits 25 and goes broke.

On that note, whereever the Californians are moving to, be very careful. They will carry their STDs...I mean fiscal nature with them. That's right I am looking at you Texans :woot:

[hippie_hunter]

On that note, whereever the Californians are moving to, be very careful. They will carry their STDs...I mean fiscal nature with them. That's right I am looking at you Texans :woot:

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[Malice]

Hippie is correct, California is ground zero for the mortgage meltdown. They are responsibly for ****ing up a chunk of the economy. Arizona is a close second (not surprisingly a lot of people from Cali move there). California has been nothing but fail when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Cali is like the spoiled brat that flushes his/her family inheritance before he/she hits 25 and goes broke.

On that note, whereever the Californians are moving to, be very careful. They will carry their STDs...I mean fiscal nature with them. That's right I am looking at you Texans :woot:

I dont want them in my state!
They are polluting the hick-gene!
:)

[Nivek]

I had to ask what you all think on this one.
Using the following link (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711)

Here are the ones with massive shortfalls (only those in the billions):
Arizona - 2.6 billion
California - 15 billion
Maryland - 1.2 billion
Michigan - 2.0 billion
New York - 2.2 billion
North Carolina - 4.4 billion
Ohio - 1.1 billion
Oregon - 4.2 billion

What do you think, about having the Federal government bailing out those states?

For me...hell no. Why should I have to pay for the mis-management of California or New York?

Same goes for companies as well.

What do you think?

UNITED States of America.

You are citizen is this country, preserve the UNION. If our states are going to fail is schools and infrastructure, this country as a whole has to step in to help our brothers in need. This is not a country that stands by and watches our fellow countryman fail to prove a insignificant moral lesson not to the legislators that let this happen, but the tax paying, law abiding citizens just trying to live their life. Why punish them? What makes us better than these other countries when we can't even straighten out our fellow countrymen?

[Paradoxium]

What makes certain people more exceptional to another are the ones who fail, make no excuses about, hold themselves accountable, and learn to plow through it and become successful again. People learn through failures and mistakes. These experiences harden them and make them better people.

California deserves to fail on its on mistakes and idiotic spending. If they can't learn from it, they don't deserve any help, period.

[Malice]

What makes certain people more exceptional to another are the ones who fail, make no excuses about, hold themselves accountable, and learn to plow through it and become successful again. People learn through failures and mistakes. These experiences harden them and make them better people.

California deserves to fail on its on mistakes and idiotic spending. If they can't learn from it, they don't deserve any help, period.

That is exactly my thought para...

I don't like saying no...but I think lessons need to be learned.

[hippie_hunter]

UNITED States of America.

You are citizen is this country, preserve the UNION. If our states are going to fail is schools and infrastructure, this country as a whole has to step in to help our brothers in need. This is not a country that stands by and watches our fellow countryman fail to prove a insignificant moral lesson not to the legislators that let this happen, but the tax paying, law abiding citizens just trying to live their life. Why punish them? What makes us better than these other countries when we can't even straighten out our fellow countrymen?

Some states are deserving of help like Michigan and Ohio. It's not their fault that the economy has ruined manufacturing and the auto industry for them.

However, California is just one hopeless mess. We give them money and they're just going to keep spending more and more and not change their ways at all. The tax paying, law abiding citizens are just as responsible for the mess there as their government is. It's nothing but a culture of pissing away money and debt.

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm not well versed on economics in general. But can someone explain to me California's situation? I keep hearing that they're out of money and California is one of the richest states in America.

So I'm having trouble connecting the dots here. What exactly has happened?

You mean to tell me the state itself has no money and is just dried up completely?

[Hobodeluxe]

I had to ask what you all think on this one.
Using the following link (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711)

Here are the ones with massive shortfalls (only those in the billions):
Arizona - 2.6 billion
Caliufornia - 15 billion
Maryland - 1.2 billion
Michigan - 2.0 billion
New York - 2.2 billion
North Carolina - 4.4 billion
Ohio - 1.1 billion
Oregon - 4.2 billion

What do you think, about having the Federal government bailing out those states?

For me...hell no. Why should I have to pay for the mis-management of California or New York?

Same goes for companies as well.

What do you think?

Just one question. What state do you live in? Texas? Did you know that for decades your state has taken money from the federal govt? It's received more than it's taken in in revenue. Did you know that for decades California has been paying for your state and others like it to have schools and roads and police?

sometimes the old horse at the front of the team needs to fall back and let the others take some of the load there brother. we're all pulling the same cart.
Does California need to cut back on their spending? yeah. but they also have suffered more than most from this economic collapse. The real estate hit them hard.

the road is long
with many a winding turn
that leads us to who knows where?
who knows where?

[enterthemadness]

Call me crazy but he amount of money you spend on film school, you are better off using that money and making a short or two (or a full film), learning the ropes with hands on experience, and reading the literature at your own pace. This is one of those industries where formal qualification will never trump pure experience and talent.

If in theory a more tax-happy governor comes into power, making a film in California is a really bad idea as well. You are better off moving to Vancouver or Prague to get your cheaper leads/extras. If you are savvy you can get people to act for free in your films (ie. reference letters).

I rather learn at a school, than hands on experience on my own. Just me though. Who said I will ever make a movie in Cali? I rather go to Bulgaria or Vancouver than shoot in the States. It could be a long time after film school I direct anything, but I am sure I will work on films on some scale after school. Usually gotta work your way up.....