The Economy Thread

[SuBe]

Oh lord, Supes found another sucker.....lol:oldrazz:
Kel, I do what I can to spread Enlightenment. From basic liberties to tax code, it is all about preserving Liberty!

[Kelly]

Kel, I do what I can to spread Enlightenment. From basic liberties to tax code, it is all about preserving Liberty!


Did you say that with your hand over your heart?:woot:

[SuBe]

Did you say that with your hand over your heart?:woot:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/Spacemonkey3434/boy_scout_with_oath.jpg

[Backdrifter]

^ The kid in that picture looks like a young Jerry O'Connell.

[BlackLantern]

He was probably molested by Larry Craig

[SuBe]

^ The kid in that picture looks like a young Jerry O'Connell.
Impossible, Jerry O'Connel was 100 pounds heavier when he was younger.

[Backdrifter]

Impossible, Jerry O'Connel was 100 pounds heavier when he was younger.
Ok, Ok. A thin version of a young Jerry O'Connell! Jeez!

[Nitehawk013]

Supes really knows his tax code stuff.

I still like the national sales tax idea best.

[Marx]

AND THE JOB CUTS JUST KEEP COMING...

AT&T cutting 12,000 jobs.

DuPont cutting 2,500 jobs.

MTV cutting 850 jobs.

[Marx]

AND COMING...

NBC to cut 500 jobs.

[BlackLantern]

AND COMING...

NBC to cut 500 jobs.

plus the cancelling of Knight Rider pads that number a bit

[SuBe]

Supes really knows his tax code stuff.

I still like the national sales tax idea best.
I know Tax Consequence. I have a better understanding of how Taxes affect Individuals. I understand how Corporate Taxes affect Jobs, and understand Ideals of Economic Liberty. But, the Actual Tax Laws, I know very little about.

[Holiday]

MTV cutting 850 jobs.

I hope Paris Hilton's is one.

[Marx]

I hope Paris Hilton's is one.

For some reason, I don't think that will make her go away anytime soon! :csad:

[Kelly]

Could be NBC finally realized they have a buttload of biased news people and decided to can them.....



Nah, probably not......

[Marx]

PROPOSED COW 'GAS' TAX ANGERS FARMERS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/05/proposed-cow-gas-tax-ange_n_148682.html

Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.

It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.

[SuBe]

PROPOSED COW 'GAS' TAX ANGERS FARMERS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/05/proposed-cow-gas-tax-ange_n_148682.html
That won't effect the price of food at all.

[Carcharodon]

Yeah, the Cow Tax...not digging it too much. Besides, the amount of methane they're putting out doesn't concern me as much as the amount of methane we can expect from melting methane clathrates.

Yay climate change feedback loops!

[Marx]

That won't effect the price of food at all.

Yeah, I don't think that it's a very good idea at all. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon13.gif

[Venom'sDad]

PROPOSED COW 'GAS' TAX ANGERS FARMERS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/05/proposed-cow-gas-tax-ange_n_148682.html

It won't happen, but it goes to show the reach liberals would take. I'm surprise they have not impose a carbon footprint tax on farmers, given these animals produce huge amounts of methane.

:facepalm

[Marx]

It won't happen, but it goes to show the reach liberals would take. I'm surprise they have not impose a carbon footprint tax on farmers, given these animals produce huge amounts of methane.

:facepalm

Bad ideas are not limited to one party VD. The Republicans have their fair share of them as well.

[Venom'sDad]

Bad ideas are not limited to one party VD. The Republicans have their fair share of them as well.
Oh I know Marx... believe you me; but I'm not talking about parties here, I was addressing the ideology behind the Cow Tax.... that's a liberal idea.

[Marx]

Oh I know Marx... believe you me; but I'm not talking about parties here, I was addressing the ideology behind the Cow Tax.... that's a liberal idea.

I honestly thought the 'cow tax' was a joke when I first saw it.

[Marx]

BUSH ACKNOWLEDGES RECESSION FOR THE FIRST TIME
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/05/bush-very-concerned-over-_n_148724.html

[Marx]

CALIFORNIA MIGHT BE OUT OF MONEY BY FEBRUARY
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN0539713620081205




Yikes! :wow:

[Backdrifter]

Better cut spending!

DUN DUN DUN!

[Anita18]

CALIFORNIA MIGHT BE OUT OF MONEY BY FEBRUARY
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN0539713620081205




Yikes! :wow:
Since we're in debt, haven't we been out of cash for a while? :oldrazz:

[Marx]

TRIBUNE COMPANY FILES FOR BANKRUPTCY PROTECTION
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/08/chicago-tribune-files-for_n_149328.html

[BlackLantern]

Print is dead....or on life support

[Marx]

Print is dead....or on life support

I'd say it's on life support right now, and not looking good for any improvement.

[Kelly]

Ya know, the more I look at this bailout of the auto industry......I see that a major portion of their problem is the same problem that our social security system is having.

If you look at a population pyramid of the United States it is VERY EVIDENT that we have a huge number of retirees. Like the SSS, we are no longer paying in "what we will use for our retirement" we are paying in to pay for that huge number of retirees and their retirement.

The auto companies LIKE the government did not plan for this, and we are ALL NOW SCREWED.

Way to go powers that be.......................


So, I call "bullhockey" to those that say these big retirement packages are not a major part of the auto industries problem. BULLHOCKEY.

[Marx]

MORE JOB CUTS...

YAHOO! is cutting 1,500 jobs.

NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (NFL) cutting 150 jobs.

[Marx]

AND MORE CUTS...

SONY plans to cut 8,000 jobs.

[SentinelMind]

Some of those jobs cuts are worldwide...but yeah..not good....

[danger]

Ya know, the more I look at this bailout of the auto industry......I see that a major portion of their problem is the same problem that our social security system is having.

If you look at a population pyramid of the United States it is VERY EVIDENT that we have a huge number of retirees. Like the SSS, we are no longer paying in "what we will use for our retirement" we are paying in to pay for that huge number of retirees and their retirement.

The auto companies LIKE the government did not plan for this, and we are ALL NOW SCREWED.

Way to go powers that be.......................


So, I call "bullhockey" to those that say these big retirement packages are not a major part of the auto industries problem. BULLHOCKEY.


A simple explanation for the social security problem is that the smallest generation in US history is going to have to support the largest generation (babyboomers).

[Kelly]

A simple explanation for the social security problem is that the smallest generation in US history is going to have to support the largest generation (babyboomers).


Yeah, but simple is boring.........and the smallest generation in history was probably the first generation of US born citizens.....

[Marx]

BANK OF AMERICA SHEDDING UP TO 35,000 JOBS OVER THREE YEARS
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/companies/BofA/index.htm?postversion=2008121117





Yikes! :wow:

[Marx]

STILL MORE CUTS...

THE SARA LEE CORPORATION is cutting 700 jobs.

[Marx]

KB TOYS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS
http://www.playthings.com/article/CA6621869.html

Resulting in almost 11,000 job losses.

[Holiday]

KB TOYS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS
http://www.playthings.com/article/CA6621869.html

Resulting in almost 11,000 job losses.

I didn't even know they were still around. There was one in a mall close to my town when I was younger but it closed when Toys R Us showed up.

[Marx]

I didn't even know they were still around. There was one in a mall close to my town when I was younger but it closed when Toys R Us showed up.

Yeah, they are still in all the malls around here.

[SuBe]

that's cause Ohio has ****** malls

[Holiday]

that's cause Ohio has ****** malls

Oh that's just rude...


But yeah, I bet they do.:hehe::oldrazz:

[danger]

Yeah, but simple is boring.........and the smallest generation in history was probably the first generation of US born citizens.....
i meant smallest generation in modern times...20th century.

[deathfromabove]

I personally hope that this economic crisis makes people a little bit wiser when it comes to consumption decisions. Part of the reason why many people are suffering is because they have poured money down the drain on unnecessary items, whether they are iPods or touch-screen phones or sixty-inch televisions, instead of putting money from each pay check away each week. Perhaps if people-- especially younger folks-- started to SAVE their finances instead of buying the latest technological gizmo, they might not be facing insurmountable debt and a bleak financial future.

words to live by (or buy)

oh and...

the things you own end up owning you...

[WompuM]

I had to drive like an hour to find a KB Toys. Good riddance. That place is such a cluster****.

I can't wait till Shortpacked! comments on it.

[Marx]

I had to drive like an hour to find a KB Toys. Good riddance. That place is such a cluster****.

I can't wait till Shortpacked! comments on it.

KB is definately is very closed in store.

[IncrediNate]

and there's nothing in there... that's not at wal mart or dollar general

[Marx]

PELOSI SEES 'BIGGER, GREENER' STIMULUS
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16546.html

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has increased the size of the economic stimulus package she will support when Congress reconvenes next month, saying it will need to be $500 billion to $600 billion.

That’s up from the $400 billion to $500 billion that House Democrats had been expecting. Pelosi gave the figure during an interview with Al Hunt of Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt.”

“This week we had our most recent presentations from economists to tell us what – how robust such a package should be in order to have an impact on the economy, to turn the economy around,” Pelosi said. “Economists told us that the package had to be strong enough, half a trillion, $600 billion, somewhere near that.”

Pelosi said the package would not be like “a 1930s public works project” but instead would have such modern components as broader access to quick Internet connections and greener forms of energy. She echoed the number of jobs and the components that President-elect Obama unveiled just before Thanksgiving.

[Backdrifter]

Obama stimulus could reach $1 trillion: report

NEW YORK (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama's team is considering a plan to boost the recession-hit U.S. economy that could be far larger than previous estimates and might reach $1 trillion over two years, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

Obama aides, who were considering a half-trillion dollar package two weeks ago, now consider $600 billion over two years "a very low-end estimate," the newspaper said, citing an unidentified person familiar with the matter.

The final size of the stimulus was expected to be significantly higher, possibly between $700 billion and $1 trillion over that period, it said, given the deteriorating state of the U.S. economy.

Officials with Obama's camp have declined to comment on media reports about the size of the boost his administration might seek to give the economy through increased public spending and tax cuts.

Obama is due to take office on January 20.

Battered stock market investors around the world have taken heart from previous indications of how Obama's administration may seek to kickstart growth in the world's largest economy.

Obama has promised he will launch a massive public works program to help lift the U.S. economy out of recession.

The president-elect is likely to be briefed by his aides on the outline of the stimulus plan next week with a view to getting it passed by Congress by the time he is sworn in next month, the Journal said.

Economists have previously said they expect Obama to quickly sign a multi-year spending package that could be worth up to $750 billion, or almost 5 percent of U.S. gross domestic product.

The administration of President George W. Bush has been given authority by Congress to spend up to $700 billion in taxpayer money to rescue the nation's banking system.

The money was originally set aside to buy up toxic mortgage-backed securities but is now being used to recapitalize banks and induce them to lend more freely.

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE4BC1PV20081214?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true


Weeeeee! Did you guys know money can just be manifested out of thin air? Obama is so awesome!

[Carcharodon]

Weeeeee! Did you guys know money can just be manifested out of thin air? Obama is so awesome!Yeah...if only we had a piggy-bank like Bush had to fund the Iraq war.

Oh, wait...

[Backdrifter]

Oh wait... I don't remember ever supporting or voting for Mr. fiscially liberal, big government Bush ever in his 8 years in office...

But, thanks for making blind assumptions about my politics :)

In a way you have sort of proved my point... Obama = more of the same only in a different uniform.

Moving on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GzAyO6L96w

[Venom'sDad]

We have been in an Economic War... not just only from forces outside the U.S. Gov, mind you. The U.S. Economy has been evolving into a different, hybrid, economic system of itself, right before our eyes.... and many of you either choose to ignore it for whatever reasons(for or against) or just simply blind to it; neitherless, this evolving of the system is simply birthing pain. Some of you have no clue what will emerge from the cocoon.

I will tell you this, it won't be a "Free Market" as you know it, an American Traditional version of Capitalism. Very different; yet, very ancient. ;)

[Kelly]

We have been in an Economic War... not just only from forces outside the U.S. Gov, mind you. The U.S. Economy has been evolving into a different, hybrid, economic system of itself, right before our eyes.... and many of you either choose to ignore it for whatever reasons(for or against) or just simply blind to it; neitherless, this evolving of the system is simply birthing pain. Some of you have no clue what will emerge from the cocoon.

I will tell you this, it won't be a "Free Market" as you know it, an American Traditional version of Capitalism. Very different; yet, very ancient. ;)

It hasn't been a "Free Market" economy in oooooh about 7 decades.

[SuBe]

It hasn't been a "Free Market" economy in oooooh about 7 decades.
Agreed. But, when we let a little more of that Free Market sunshine on the Economy, it's a little more pleasant than Socialism Thunderstorms.

[Backdrifter]

We have been in an Economic War... not just only from forces outside the U.S. Gov, mind you. The U.S. Economy has been evolving into a different, hybrid, economic system of itself, right before our eyes.... and many of you either choose to ignore it for whatever reasons(for or against) or just simply blind to it; neitherless, this evolving of the system is simply birthing pain. Some of you have no clue what will emerge from the cocoon.

I will tell you this, it won't be a "Free Market" as you know it, an American Traditional version of Capitalism. Very different; yet, very ancient. ;)

Yes we do. It is called communism and it sucks.

[Venom'sDad]

It hasn't been a "Free Market" economy in oooooh about 7 decades.I understand what you are saying; however, I think you understand what I'm saying.


Yes we do. It is called communismNot exactly


Agreed. But, when we let a little more of that Free Market sunshine on the Economy, it's a little more pleasant than Socialism Thunderstorms.So true. :up:

Here is a little Sacrifice (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081216215816.8g97981o&show_article=1).... if one can call it little.

[Marx]

GOVERNOR STRICKLAND ORDERS $640 MILLION CUTS
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081219/NEWS0108/312190087/1056/COL02

Gov. Ted Strickland ordered another $640 million sliced from state government operations today, including 5.75 percent, across-the-board cuts to all but the most vital programs.

The Democratic governor said the state’s budget picture is substantially worse than it was even 12 weeks ago. Cuts for the fiscal year now total $1.9 billion, in line with the worst projections by the state budget office.

Strickland said the latest cuts will not affect a tuition freeze for state colleges and universities, nor basic funding for public elementary and secondary schools. The governor views access to education as the best way to prepare Ohioans for the jobs and economic opportunities of the future.

He continued to blame the state’s economic woes on national factors.

“In spite of these being terribly challenging times, I am committed to handling our budget issues responsibly and carefully,” he said in an interview. “We will get through this and, if we do it correctly, we can make Ohio even stronger and better positioned to make future progress.”

In Cincinnati for a previously planned televised forum about education funding, Strickland again called public education one of his major priorities, and said the economy’s impact on his broader plan for schools is unavoidable.

“The fact is, we are in a recession,” the governor told The Enquirer. “It is a serious, national recession. It’s a recession within our state and I recognize that. I’m not a foolish person, and I’m not going to suggest that in the midst of this recession that I’m going to have all the resources to do everything I would like to do for our schools.”

:csad:

[Kelly]

Agreed. But, when we let a little more of that Free Market sunshine on the Economy, it's a little more pleasant than Socialism Thunderstorms.


Oh HEY, you are preachin' to the choir on that one....


The government is not for bailouts, it is to keep the market "fair"....

NOW, if within these bailouts there are specifics on the automakers actually learning something from the foreign cars being made here in the US.....yes they are losing money too, but they aren't looking for a bailout.

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

POLAROID is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

[BlackLantern]

I didn't know they were still around.....

[Marx]

I didn't know they were still around.....

Production of the old style Polaroid film was just recently stopped but they are still pretty active. (Film, digital frames, cameras, videotapes, tvs.)

[Holiday]

Bummer. We were talking about KB toys going out of business a few days ago and now I've found out my local Toys R Us is shutting down. :(

Maybe I can get some nice action figures during the liquidation sale though.

[SoulManX]

WASHINGTON – It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going?
But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.
"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."
The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest?
None of the banks provided specific answers.
"We're not providing dollar-in, dollar-out tracking," said Barry Koling, a spokesman for Atlanta, Ga.-based SunTrust Banks Inc., which got $3.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.
Some banks said they simply didn't know where the money was going.
"We manage our capital in its aggregate," said Regions Financial Corp. spokesman Tim Deighton, who said the Birmingham, Ala.-based company is not tracking how it is spending the $3.5 billion it received as part of the financial bailout.
The answers highlight the secrecy surrounding the Troubled Assets Relief Program, which earmarked $700 billion — about the size of the Netherlands' economy — to help rescue the financial industry. The Treasury Department has been using the money to buy stock in U.S. banks, hoping that the sudden inflow of cash will get banks to start lending money.
There has been no accounting of how banks spend that money. Lawmakers summoned bank executives to Capitol Hill last month and implored them to lend the money — not to hoard it or spend it on corporate bonuses, junkets or to buy other banks. But there is no process in place to make sure that's happening and there are no consequences for banks who don't comply.
"It is entirely appropriate for the American people to know how their taxpayer dollars are being spent in private industry," said Elizabeth Warren, the top congressional watchdog overseeing the financial bailout.
But, at least for now, there's no way for taxpayers to find that out.
Pressured by the Bush administration to approve the money quickly, Congress attached nearly no strings on the $700 billion bailout in October. And the Treasury Department, which doles out the money, never asked banks how it would be spent.
"Those are legitimate questions that should have been asked on Day One," said Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., a House Financial Services Committee member who opposed the bailout as it was rushed through Congress. "Where is the money going to go to? How is it going to be spent? When are we going to get a record on it?"
Nearly every bank AP questioned — including Citibank and Bank of America, two of the largest recipients of bailout money — responded with generic public relations statements explaining that the money was being used to strengthen balance sheets and continue making loans to ease the credit crisis.
A few banks described company-specific programs, such as JPMorgan Chase's plan to lend $5 billion to nonprofit and health care companies next year. Richard Becker, senior vice president of Wisconsin-based Marshall & Ilsley Corp., said the $1.75 billion in bailout money allowed the bank to temporarily stop foreclosing on homes.
But no bank provided even the most basic accounting for the federal money.
"We're choosing not to disclose that," said Kevin Heine, spokesman for Bank of New York Mellon, which received about $3 billion.
Others said the money couldn't be tracked. Bob Denham, a spokesman for North Carolina-based BB&T Corp., said the bailout money "doesn't have its own bucket." But he said taxpayer money wasn't used in the bank's recent purchase of a Florida insurance company. Asked how he could be sure, since the money wasn't being tracked, Denham said the bank would have made that deal regardless.
Others, such as Morgan Stanley spokeswoman Carissa Ramirez, offered to discuss the matter with reporters on condition of anonymity. When AP refused, Ramirez sent an e-mail saying: "We are going to decline to comment on your story."
Most banks wouldn't say why they were keeping the details secret.
"We're not sharing any other details. We're just not at this time," said Wendy Walker, a spokeswoman for Dallas-based Comerica Inc., which received $2.25 billion from the government.
Heine, the New York Mellon Corp. spokesman who said he wouldn't share spending specifics, added: "I just would prefer if you wouldn't say that we're not going to discuss those details."
The banks which came closest to answering the questions were those, such as U.S. Bancorp and Huntington Bancshares Inc., that only recently received the money and have yet to spend it. But neither provided anything more than a generic summary of how the money would be spent.
Lawmakers say they want to tighten restrictions on the remaining, yet-to-be-released $350 billion block of bailout money before more cash is handed out. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said the department is trying to step up its monitoring of bank spending.
"What we've been doing here is moving, I think, with lightning speed to put necessary programs in place, to develop them, implement them, and then we need to monitor them while we're doing this," Paulson said at a recent forum in New York. "So we're building this organization as we're going."
Warren, the congressional watchdog appointed by Democrats, said her oversight panel will try to force the banks to say where they've spent the money.
"It would take a lot of nerve not to give answers," she said.
But Warren said she's surprised she even has to ask.
"If the appropriate restrictions were put on the money to begin with, if the appropriate transparency was in place, then we wouldn't be in a position where you're trying to call every recipient and get the basic information that should already be in public documents," she said.
Garrett, the New Jersey congressman, said the nation might never get a clear answer on where hundreds of billions of dollars went.
"A year or two ago, when we talked about spending $100 million for a bridge to nowhere, that was considered a scandal," he said.
___
Associated Press writers Stevenson Jacobs in New York and Christopher S. Rugaber and Daniel Wagner in Washington contributed to this report.

[Morg]

some the bank executives got millions of the tax payers money

[rdh007]

I get that the Big Three have a horrible business model and thus they've been doing horribly, but the banking industry doesn't seem that much farther ahead and we didn't blink at bailing them out. I'm trying to figure out what makes the banking industry different from the auto industry (aside from the obvious; that one bilks people out of their money by charging too much for an inferior product and the other one bilks people out of their money by changing numbers on a screen), and the only thing I can see consistently is white collar workers.

[dnno1]

The financial bailout bill has provisions for oversight designed into it. For crying out loud it has been less than 2 months since the bill was passed and they are just setting things up as far as oversight. I think we need to give all the parties a chance to get things organized. You shouldn't expect these things to happen overnight.

[BlackSymbiote]

And you're surprised by this... why?

[The Senator]

A good chunk of the imaginary money these corporations and investment firms are receiving is going into the pockets of the CEOs responsible for screwing their companies over in the first place. Our corporatocracy never fails.

[Raiden]

There really need to be an oversight committee that monitors every cent in that bailout package. These are taxpayers' money and they cannot cover it up with creative accounting like they used to do. The Congress needs to put an end to this secrecy right away.

[Addendum]

It's called the bailout now. Later on, it'll be called "why dad went to jail"

[Marx]

25 PERCENT OF RETAILERS MAY GO BANKRUPT
http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/25-of-retailers-may-go-bankrupt

Yikes! :wow:

[Marx]

OHIO REACHES FOR A LIFELINE
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/26/AR2008122601837.html


In Ohio, which has shed 100,000 jobs in the past year, Gov. Ted Strickland (D) and his budget team spend a lot of time delivering bad news to constituents and plotting ways to wring money from the federal government. He announced $640 million in cuts for the budget year ending June 30, for a total of $1.9 billion since the economic crisis began.

"We're not crying wolf. This is real," Strickland said in an interview in his statehouse office, pointing to charts that project the most serious erosion of state income in 40 years and a two-year budget deficit of $7.3 billion.

Revenue shortfalls in the upcoming two-year budget could amount to about 25 percent of the state's discretionary spending.

Strickland recently picked up the telephone and called Rahm Emanuel, the incoming White House chief of staff. When he heard the recorded voice of his former congressional colleague, he left a message: "Rahm, it's Ted. You've never failed me and I need $5 billion."

Obama has promised money, contending that the need for a stimulus justifies an expansion of the record federal deficit. Vice President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. last week promised a down payment on a middle-class tax cut, plus spending to improve roads, bridges and water systems. He called the package the new administration's "most urgent order of business."

:csad:

[Kelly]

Yeah, I figure that after this year's dismal Christmas sales....many will go under. But, there is a big difference between Ch 11 bankruptcy and Ch 7 bankruptcy....I think people need to see which one is being filed before we panic. If its Ch 11....that could be a positive in the long run......

[Marx]

Yeah, I figure that after this year's dismal Christmas sales....many will go under. But, there is a big difference between Ch 11 bankruptcy and Ch 7 bankruptcy....I think people need to see which one is being filed before we panic. If its Ch 11....that could be a positive in the long run......

I agree. It's definitely going to be interesting to see how this all comes out.

[Marx]

ABC NEWS: ECONOMIC CRISIS HAS SMALL CAR PRICES BEING SLASHED
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=6528855&page=1


Though gas prices tumbled, some automakers are trying to juice sales of fuel-thrifty economy cars by slashing starting prices to less than $10,000.

Small-car sales doubled during the first half of the year as gas topped $4 a gallon. By the end of November, sales levels had tumbled 63% from the peak. Even with the drop, the segment is holding up better than others because overall vehicle sales are so weak. "It's surprising," says Ford Motor analyst George Pipas.

No other vehicle segment saw such sales volatility in 2008. First, it was falling gas prices that slowed small-car sales. Now, it's the inability of recent college graduates and other price-conscious drivers to qualify for loans.

[BlackLantern]

I should start selling semen and blood.....separately of course

[Marx]

I should start selling semen and blood.....separately of course

There was a story on the news the other day about women selling their eggs to make a little profit.

[BlackLantern]

I have a friend who's doing that.....she's already sold some and she's going to sell some more in April or May

[Marx]

I have a friend who's doing that.....she's already sold some and she's going to sell some more in April or May

Supposedly it's a nice chunk of change.

[Doug.Ragan]

We are currently in a spiral. The bad mortgages are causing banks to lose money, so they aren't able to loan money. Since they aren't loaning money, business is suffering. Since business is suffering, people are losing jobs. Since people are losing jobs, they aren't able to pay their mortgage.

What we need are 3 things.

1) Loan modification
2) Debt consolidation
3) Teach people how to create their own business

I detail it here (http://thenewpundit.com/2008/12/24/how-you-can-help-save-the-economy/).

[Backdrifter]

ABC NEWS: ECONOMIC CRISIS HAS SMALL CAR PRICES BEING SLASHED
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=6528855&page=1

Market correcting itself? :wow:

[Kelly]

We are currently in a spiral. The bad mortgages are causing banks to lose money, so they aren't able to loan money. Since they aren't loaning money, business is suffering. Since business is suffering, people are losing jobs. Since people are losing jobs, they aren't able to pay their mortgage.

What we need are 3 things.

1) Loan modification
2) Debt consolidation
3) Teach people how to create their own business

I detail it here (http://thenewpundit.com/2008/12/24/how-you-can-help-save-the-economy/).

How about we simply teach people not to buy what they can't afford, and teach the banks not to loan money to people they know can't pay it back......seems pretty simple to me.

[SentinelMind]

It's time for Fred Thompson to bring you some holiday cheer.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKc4XFK0iVY

[redfirebird2008]

It's time for Fred Thompson to bring you some holiday cheer.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKc4XFK0iVY

LOL, nicely done by old Fred.

[Marx]

OBAMA EYES $300 BILLION TAX CUT
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111279694652423.html

President-elect Barack Obama and congressional Democrats are crafting a plan to offer about $300 billion of tax cuts to individuals and businesses, a move aimed at attracting Republican support for an economic-stimulus package and prodding companies to create jobs.

The size of the proposed tax cuts -- which would account for about 40% of a stimulus package that could reach $775 billion over two years -- is greater than many on both sides of the aisle in Congress had anticipated. It may make it easier to win over Republicans who have stressed that any initiative should rely more heavily on tax cuts rather than spending.

The Obama tax-cut proposals, if enacted, could pack more punch in two years than either of President George W. Bush's tax cuts did in their first two years. Mr. Bush's 10-year, $1.35 trillion tax cut of 2001, considered the largest in history, contained $174 billion of cuts during its first two full years, according to Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation. The second-largest tax cut -- the 10-year, $350 billion package engineered by Mr. Bush in 2003 -- contained $231 billion in 2004 and 2005.

[Fading]

We are currently in a spiral. The bad mortgages are causing banks to lose money, so they aren't able to loan money. Since they aren't loaning money, business is suffering. Since business is suffering, people are losing jobs. Since people are losing jobs, they aren't able to pay their mortgage.

What we need are 3 things.

1) Loan modification
2) Debt consolidation
3) Teach people how to create their own business

I detail it here (http://thenewpundit.com/2008/12/24/how-you-can-help-save-the-economy/).

The economic thread turned into a written infomercial :lmao:.



Hello Fading here, having trouble with that car payment? In debt to a hooker? Trying to pay off a loan shark and just don't have the cash? For the low, low price of $3000 a month, that's just several dozen dollars a day, I will teach YOU to be responsible with YOUR cash. Just send the check....and the hooker, to the non-existant address below.

[Venom'sDad]

:hehe:

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

FORD MOTOR COMPANY is reporting a 32 percent drop in sales for the month of December.

Yikes! :wow:

[Marx]

STILL MORE BAD NEWS...

CITGO is suspending its low-income heating oil program.

[Marx]

EVEN MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

CHRYSLER is reporting a 53 percent drop in sales for the month of December.

Double yikes! :wow:

[jaguarr]

I'll be honest; I don't feel sorry for the domestic auto-makers. They've been building inferior products (in comparison with European and Japanese automakers) for many, many years and have done nothing to change or try to innovate; they've essentially tried to ride the same horse for decades. Well, now the horse is dead and they don't know what to do and, frankly, I resent my tax dollars being given to them so they can perpetuate the same madness. Either change and grow your business model and products with the market or go extinct. I feel the same way about the recording and entertainment industries and the banking industries.

jag

[Marx]

I'll be honest; I don't feel sorry for the domestic auto-makers. They've been building inferior products (in comparison with European and Japanese automakers) for many, many years and have done nothing to change or try to innovate; they've essentially tried to ride the same horse for decades. Well, now the horse is dead and they don't know what to do and, frankly, I resent my tax dollars being given to them so they can perpetuate the same madness. Either change and grow your business model and products with the market or go extinct. I feel the same way about the recording and entertainment industries and the banking industries.

jag

Supposedly, there were some foreign automakers that had slight increases in December sales.

[jaguarr]

Supposedly, there were some foreign automakers that had slight increases in December sales.

Sure, but "slight" is a world apart from a 32-55% drop. :o

jag

[BlackLantern]

We are currently in a spiral. The bad mortgages are causing banks to lose money, so they aren't able to loan money. Since they aren't loaning money, business is suffering. Since business is suffering, people are losing jobs. Since people are losing jobs, they aren't able to pay their mortgage.

What we need are 3 things.

1) Loan modification
2) Debt consolidation
3) Teach people how to create their own business

I detail it here (http://thenewpundit.com/2008/12/24/how-you-can-help-save-the-economy/).

Sorry...I'll stick to living within my means....

[Marx]

Sure, but "slight" is a world apart from a 32-55% drop. :o

jag

Very true, Jag.

[Marx]

STILL MORE BAD NEWS...

Due to the financial crisis, NINE MORE SHOWS HAVE CLOSED ON BROADWAY. (Including 'Hairspray', 'Grease', and 'Young Frankstein'.)

[Raiden]

I'll be honest; I don't feel sorry for the domestic auto-makers. They've been building inferior products (in comparison with European and Japanese automakers) for many, many years and have done nothing to change or try to innovate; they've essentially tried to ride the same horse for decades. Well, now the horse is dead and they don't know what to do and, frankly, I resent my tax dollars being given to them so they can perpetuate the same madness. Either change and grow your business model and products with the market or go extinct. I feel the same way about the recording and entertainment industries and the banking industries.

jag

I agree, and I doubt all those billions used to bailout the Big Three will help since the same problem that plagued these companies still presist, and customers won't suddenly purchase inferior products just to feel like being patriotic. The automakers won't sink, but they are already in a quicksand and they will be dragged down eventually regardless of the federal intervention.

[Kelly]

STILL MORE BAD NEWS...

Due to the financial crisis, NINE MORE SHOWS HAVE CLOSED ON BROADWAY. (Including 'Hairspray', 'Grease', and 'Young Frankstein'.)

Grease was being replaced anyway by an off broadway musical that is about the 70's.....

[Marx]

Grease was being replaced anyway by an off broadway musical that is about the 70's.....

I believe some of the nine were also seasonal shows. (Though I'm not sure of the exact number.)

[BlackLantern]

as long as porn keeps chugging along, we'll be fine

[Anita18]

The economic thread turned into a written infomercial :lmao:.



Hello Fading here, having trouble with that car payment? In debt to a hooker? Trying to pay off a loan shark and just don't have the cash? For the low, low price of $3000 a month, that's just several dozen dollars a day, I will teach YOU to be responsible with YOUR cash. Just send the check....and the hooker, to the non-existant address below.
:lmao:

I spent this weekend reading months-old articles about how we got into this stock market mess. Woohoo for nothing being regulated and the raters being paid by the ratees. Great idea there. :o

It'd be hilarious, if it weren't so frightening. Or who am I kidding, it's still hilarious.

[Kelly]

I believe some of the nine were also seasonal shows. (Though I'm not sure of the exact number.)


I wouldn't even know that information if I hadn't been watching Bill and Meghan on Fox's New Year's Eve show.......lol

[danoyse]

STILL MORE BAD NEWS...

Due to the financial crisis, NINE MORE SHOWS HAVE CLOSED ON BROADWAY. (Including 'Hairspray', 'Grease', and 'Young Frankstein'.)

Yes, they're calling the first Tuesday when a lot of the theaters will now be dark "Black Tuesday" on Broadway. I think it's 13 shows altogether by the time February ends. :csad:

I saw Spring Awakening last month (which is one of the shows scheduled to close) and it was half-empty. The usher basically told us we could sit wherever we wanted.

Then again, I saw Jersey Boys a week later and there wasn't an empty seat in the theater. That show and a few others (Wicked, Billy Elliot, Lion King) are doing just fine. There are also some new shows coming in the next few months that should do well.

January is usually a bad month on Broadway because the weather is bad and tourism is low, so usually a few shows close - but I've never seen this many shows shut down in January.

[Kelly]

I also think some of this is in advance of the actors strike....

[danoyse]

I believe some of the nine were also seasonal shows. (Though I'm not sure of the exact number.)

One is White Christmas, which was scheduled to close after the holidays. There were also some limited runs - Liza Minelli's show at the Palace ended yesterday (don't laugh, that thing sold out its entire run). I know Equus is closing next month, but that was scheduled to end in February, since Daniel Radcliffe will be needed to start the next Harry Potter film. All My Sons I think was also a limited run.

But a few of the open-run shows that have closed/scheduled to close are:
Hairspray
Grease
13
Spring Awakening
Spamalot
Young Frankenstein
Gypsy

Rumors are that Mary Poppins may close, and possibly Avenue Q (although they are currently having a contest to change the George Bush line in one of the songs, so I guess they're not going anywhere yet).

There are also some new shows that are reportedly having trouble finding backers, so that could delay their arrivals on Broadway.

I hate seeing all these shows closing. It reminds me of right after 9/11 when a ton of shows closed that first month afterwards. :csad:

[danoyse]

I also think some of this is in advance of the actors strike....

I think stage actors are in a different union - although most of them are probably SAG members as well. A lot of the shows that are closing weren't doing very well to begin with - Young Frankenstein had been rumored to be closing for months, Spamalot had to bring back Clay Aiken when their attendance went down, Grease was doing the same (half their cast seemed to be made up of American Idol contestants). Spring Awakening was a big hit when it opened, but the R-rated subject matter was a tough sell with the tourists, so that had slowed down over the last year or so.

Hairspray surprised me, I thought that was doing great, especially after the movie.

[Marx]

Yes, they're calling the first Tuesday when a lot of the theaters will now be dark "Black Tuesday" on Broadway. I think it's 13 shows altogether by the time February ends. :csad:

I saw Spring Awakening last month (which is one of the shows scheduled to close) and it was half-empty. The usher basically told us we could sit wherever we wanted.

Then again, I saw Jersey Boys a week later and there wasn't an empty seat in the theater. That show and a few others (Wicked, Billy Elliot, Lion King) are doing just fine. There are also some new shows coming in the next few months that should do well.

January is usually a bad month on Broadway because the weather is bad and tourism is low, so usually a few shows close - but I've never seen this many shows shut down in January.

It is truly a sad day when theater productions start shutting down. There are some shows that always shut down after the holidays, but this is crazy. That being said, depending on the show, ticket prices can really be way up there. With the economy in the tank and no money to spare, people just can't afford to splurge.

I don't not see productions like Wicked, Billy Elliot, Lion King, or Phantom closing though. They have become staples.

[Marx]

One is White Christmas, which was scheduled to close after the holidays. There were also some limited runs - Liza Minelli's show at the Palace ended yesterday (don't laugh, that thing sold out its entire run). I know Equus is closing next month, but that was scheduled to end in February, since Daniel Radcliffe will be needed to start the next Harry Potter film. All My Sons I think was also a limited run.

But a few of the open-run shows that have closed/scheduled to close are:
Hairspray
Grease
13
Spring Awakening
Spamalot
Young Frankenstein
Gypsy

Rumors are that Mary Poppins may close, and possibly Avenue Q (although they are currently having a contest to change the George Bush line in one of the songs, so I guess they're not going anywhere yet).

There are also some new shows that are reportedly having trouble finding backers, so that could delay their arrivals on Broadway.

I hate seeing all these shows closing. It reminds me of right after 9/11 when a ton of shows closed that first month afterwards. :csad:

Yeah, all of the limited runs I'm not really surprised by. Hairspray, Gyspy, and Spamalot I am surprised by. I've heard the rumors about Mary Poppins and Avenue Q too...

Wow...just wow...

[danoyse]

It is truly a sad day when theater productions start shutting down. There are some shows that always shut down after the holidays, but this is crazy. That being said, depending on the show, ticket prices can really be way up there. With the economy in the tank and no money to spare, people just can't afford to splurge.

I don't not see productions like Wicked, Billy Elliot, Lion King, or Phantom closing though. They have become staples.

It was depressing to sit through a half-empty Spring Awakening last month. I saw it back when it first opened and it was sold out. It's a great show with a really young cast who was putting everything into the performance that night...and half the place was empty.

Ticket prices are ridiculous. Even the half-price TKTS booth is expensive now. I really want to see Billy Elliot (I saw it twice in London) but orchestra seats are $135. That's insane. Broadway shows are just pricing themselves out of existence.

[jaguarr]

What the...? Sorry, I was looking for the economy thread. I seem to have stumbled into the Broadway shows thread. :o

jag

[Fading]

It is truly a sad day when theater productions start shutting down... That being said, depending on the show, ticket prices can really be way up there. With the economy in the tank and no money to spare, people just can't afford to splurge.

I've honestly never been to a broadway play (nothing against them, just haven't), but I think some ppl think of them as expensive date entertainment. With going to the movies you can load up on popcorn, or get a pizza after. With a broadway production, typically the location they're held at is more remote (so more gas), the tickets cost more than an avg theatre ticket, and most ppl probably like to treat themselves to a slightly more classy meal afterwards.

It's sad that a more sophisticated form of entertainment is getting hit hard, but that's just how it is. Same with food, it's easier and cheaper to get a double cheeseburger than it is to get something tasty like a steak, or something good for you like a salad.

[BlackLantern]

Insurance company CIGNA has announced it will cut about 4 percent of their workforce...they employ about 3,000 people here in Connecticut

[Marx]

What the...? Sorry, I was looking for the economy thread. I seem to have stumbled into the Broadway shows thread. :o

jag

I mentioned that the economic crisis is having a serious effect on Broadway, resulting in numerous show closings. You are more than welcome to join in the conversation! :cwink:

[Marx]

It was depressing to sit through a half-empty Spring Awakening last month. I saw it back when it first opened and it was sold out. It's a great show with a really young cast who was putting everything into the performance that night...and half the place was empty.

Ticket prices are ridiculous. Even the half-price TKTS booth is expensive now. I really want to see Billy Elliot (I saw it twice in London) but orchestra seats are $135. That's insane. Broadway shows are just pricing themselves out of existence.

Unfortunately, it's true. I couldn't imagine paying that much for a ticket on Broadway. They are expensive enough OFF Broadway!

I've honestly never been to a broadway play (nothing against them, just haven't), but I think some ppl think of them as expensive date entertainment. With going to the movies you can load up on popcorn, or get a pizza after. With a broadway production, typically the location they're held at is more remote (so more gas), the tickets cost more than an avg theatre ticket, and most ppl probably like to treat themselves to a slightly more classy meal afterwards.

It's sad that a more sophisticated form of entertainment is getting hit hard, but that's just how it is. Same with food, it's easier and cheaper to get a double cheeseburger than it is to get something tasty like a steak, or something good for you like a salad.

I keep hoping that maybe, just maybe, this will result in lower ticket prices for the theater.

[BlackLantern]

^^It won't....maybe this economic downturn will "trim the fat" off our society, things that are frivolous will wither and die....we will learn to be practical, maybe

[Marx]

^^It won't....maybe this economic downturn will "trim the fat" off our society, things that are frivolous will wither and die....we will learn to be practical, maybe

:huh:

You're not suggesting that the death of theater would be 'trimming the fat' from society, are you?

[jaguarr]

I mentioned that the economic crisis is having a serious effect on Broadway, resulting in numerous show closings. You are more than welcome to join in the conversation! :cwink:

What percentage of the GNP do Broadway musicals comprise? :hehe:

jag

[Anita18]

What the...? Sorry, I was looking for the economy thread. I seem to have stumbled into the Broadway shows thread. :o

jag
I was surprised to see it too. :funny:

^^It won't....maybe this economic downturn will "trim the fat" off our society, things that are frivolous will wither and die....we will learn to be practical, maybe
It's already happening, but instead the news are touting about how much less we're spending. Well, maybe buying a new car every 1-2 years really wasn't the most practical thing to do! :oldrazz:

And life goes as usual for me. I'm just amused that what was logical for me is finally catching on for Joe Public.

I am kind of bemoaning the fact that I'm sitting on a fantastic FICO score but I can't afford to buy anything that would warrant a loan anyway. :funny:

[BlackLantern]

:huh:

You're not suggesting that the death of theater would be 'trimming the fat' from society, are you?

Theater will always exist in some form or another....it's not confined to one street in New York City....

[Marx]

Theater will always exist in some form or another....it's not confined to one street in New York City....

I am fully aware of that but Broadway is a staple of New York City BL.

[BlackLantern]

I am fully aware of that but Broadway is a staple of New York City BL.

Nothing lasts forever....our culture, our society is weak...we need to toughen up...

[Marx]

Nothing lasts forever....our culture, our society is weak...we need to toughen up...

I disagree with the notion of a dying theater being considered as 'trimming the fat' from society. The theater is rich with history. And Broadway in New York City is just as iconic as the Empire State Building. The theater will never completely die. Even if the number of shows dwindle, their will still be a Broadway.

[jaguarr]

I am fully aware of that but Broadway is a staple of New York City BL.

Yet Britney Spears singlehandedly makes as much money peddling her tripe as most of Broadway combined, so what does that tell you? :o

jag

[Marx]

Yet Britney Spears singlehandedly makes as much money peddling her tripe as most of Broadway combined, so what does that tell you? :o

jag

And now we're comparing Britney Spears to Broadway? :facepalm

Maybe it's best to change the subject.

[BlackLantern]

I disagree with the notion of a dying theater being considered as 'trimming the fat' from society. The theater is rich with history. And Broadway in New York City is just as iconic as the Empire State Building. The theater will never completely die. Even if the number of shows dwindle, their will still be a Broadway.

I think it's a good start....maybe not death, but hibernation

[Marx]

On that note...

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

ENTERPRISE RENT-A-CAR has announced that purchases for 2009 will be cut by 400,000 units.

Yikes! :wow:

[jaguarr]

And now we're comparing Britney Spears to Broadway? :facepalm

Maybe it's best to change the subject.

Sorry, but from a cultural perspective it's relevant. I like Broadway quite a bit myself, but there is no denying the grip trash-culture has on America (and possibly the world) and how that has influenced everything from art and music to commercialism and capitalism (mostly to our detriment, I believe).

jag

[BlackLantern]

You have businesses that lose millions in productivity when 'American Idol' holds tryouts, you have countless people with this mindset that being "famous" is the only way to be worthwhile in our society and that's the **** we need to shake loose....

People need to re-learn the value of a fair days work, to live within their means, and to determine their own self worth

[danoyse]

But Broadway isn't "dying," really. There are just more than the usual number of January closings this year due to the poor economy.

There are still a bunch of new shows opening in the next few months, so most of those theaters will be filled again soon. And there are still a ton of shows doing very well that aren't going anywhere.

The most important thing they need to do is re-evaluate their price structure. Right now Disney is running ads for Mary Poppins proclaiming it the feel-good show for these bad times. They don't mention that it costs over $100 for a full-price ticket, even for the kids (they are no offering discounts).

I love theater, so it would be hard for me to give it up - but I go to fewer shows now, and most theater fans I know are doing the same.

[Marx]

But Broadway isn't "dying," really. There are just more than the usual number of January closings this year due to the poor economy.

There are still a bunch of new shows opening in the next few months, so most of those theaters will be filled again soon. And there are still a ton of shows doing very well that aren't going anywhere.

The most important thing they need to do is re-evaluate their price structure. Right now Disney is running ads for Mary Poppins proclaiming it the feel-good show for these bad times. They don't mention that it costs over $100 for a full-price ticket, even for the kids (they are no offering discounts).

I love theater, so it would be hard for me to give it up - but I go to fewer shows now, and most theater fans I know are doing the same.

Exactly.

[jaguarr]

Broadway systematically priced itself into the problems it is experiencing. Ticket prices are outrageous (you can easily spend $300 per ticket on a premiere show). In a town that starts bleeding your wallet to death the second you land at the airport, that's a tough sell to the average tourist. This will all result in a market correction for theater, and that could very well be a good thing in the end.

jag

[Anita18]

You have businesses that lose millions in productivity when 'American Idol' holds tryouts, you have countless people with this mindset that being "famous" is the only way to be worthwhile in our society and that's the **** we need to shake loose....

People need to re-learn the value of a fair days work, to live within their means, and to determine their own self worth
And tons of people call in sick to do their football fantasy leagues and bet on March Madness. :oldrazz: It's just a fun thing to do, and if it only comes once a year, it's really the least of our problems.

I don't think everybody who tries out for one of those reality shows wants to be "OMG FAMOUS!" It's just a fun thing to do, and if they have the vacation hours to do it, then it shouldn't be a problem.

The most important thing they need to do is re-evaluate their price structure. Right now Disney is running ads for Mary Poppins proclaiming it the feel-good show for these bad times. They don't mention that it costs over $100 for a full-price ticket, even for the kids (they are no offering discounts).
I find it amusing that Disneyland is trying all of these promotions, but their ticket prices have gone up so much that I wouldn't have gone at all if I didn't have friends who worked there and I could get in free. :oldrazz:

I haven't been to live theater in YEARS. And yeah, it's mostly because of the price.

[Marx]

Broadway systematically priced itself into the problems it is experiencing. Ticket prices are outrageous (you can easily spend $300 per ticket on a premiere show). In a town that starts bleeding your wallet to death the second you land at the airport, that's a tough sell to the average tourist. This will all result in a market correction for theater, and that could very well be a good thing in the end.

jag

I sincerely hope that this economic situation does lead to lower prices. I guess we'll see.

[jaguarr]

I sincerely hope that this economic situation does lead to lower prices. I guess we'll see.


Like pretty much every other corporate entity on the planet, the financiers of Broadway productions got wholly carried away with their expectations on profit margins and revenues. Companies in general, not just in the entertainment sector, are going to have to learn how to expect a little bit smaller slice of pie for their efforts by adjusting their prices to be more reasonable and competitive. If they don't, their competitors will in this tough market, and they'll pretty much lose all but their most loyal customers. There is so much in our society that is not a necessity yet is very high-priced and made to seem like it's an invaluable commodity by the marketing pukes. Those are the things that people will stop buying first when push comes to shove, especially if they're still highly priced. That goes for electronics, clothing and entertainment.

jag

[danoyse]

Broadway systematically priced itself into the problems it is experiencing. Ticket prices are outrageous (you can easily spend $300 per ticket on a premiere show). In a town that starts bleeding your wallet to death the second you land at the airport, that's a tough sell to the average tourist. This will all result in a market correction for theater, and that could very well be a good thing in the end.

jag

I blame Mel Brooks. He started with that $400 premium pricing BS when The Producers became such a huge hit that all the other shows thought they could get away with it too. He tried it again with Young Frankenstein, and that was one of the shows that closed last weekend.

When I first started working in NY, the top ticket price was $75, which absolutely couldn't afford at the time. I saw shows via rush tickets and student discounts. Today I can afford $75 tickets, but now the top price is double - so I still can't afford them. And I won't pay $130 for a B'way show ticket. That's just not happening. (well, it might happen whenever Hugh Jackman comes back, but that's an exception)

Every theater fan I know is seeing fewer and fewer shows because of the pricing.

[Anita18]

There is so much in our society that is not a necessity yet is very high-priced and made to seem like it's an invaluable commodity by the marketing pukes. Those are the things that people will stop buying first when push comes to shove, especially if they're still highly priced. That goes for electronics, clothing and entertainment.

jag
Well, I would certainly prefer that non-necessary things be high-priced than the other way around! :o

It depends on how Broadway wants to function. The high-luxury companies aren't suffering too badly, because their clientele have so much money, this downturn doesn't really affect them. I LOLed at the LA Auto Show when a little boy asked his father how much a particular Jaguar model cost, when the price was unlisted. The father replied, "If you need to know, you can't afford it!" :funny: A nearby Jaguar model actually had the price listed, and it was $500K. :oldrazz:

But obviously, they don't churn out a lot of product - they make limited products for their limited clientele.

If Broadway wants to price themselves out like that, then they'll have to make do with fewer showings, because they won't be able to sell out seats every night.

[jaguarr]

Well, I would certainly prefer that non-necessary things be high-priced than the other way around! :o

True. Things like food, gas and power costs have skyrocketed as well, some of that due in large part simply to profit margin/revenue expectations and Wallstreet investors and for no other real reason. :down


It depends on how Broadway wants to function. The high-luxury companies aren't suffering too badly, because their clientele have so much money, this downturn doesn't really affect them. I LOLed at the LA Auto Show when a little boy asked his father how much a particular Jaguar model cost, when the price was unlisted. The father replied, "If you need to know, you can't afford it!" :funny: A nearby Jaguar model actually had the price listed, and it was $500K. :oldrazz:

But obviously, they don't churn out a lot of product - they make limited products for their limited clientele.

Ehhhh....the Jaguar brand (and Land Rover) has had quite a few issues in terms of profitability and customer satisfaction (several recalls in the last few years). To the point that Ford divested from them and they're now owned by Indian giant Tata, and are still looking for a bit of a handout from the British government. So, Jaguar isn't a very good example, I'm afraid. They've about priced themselves out of existence as well. :o


If Broadway wants to price themselves out like that, then they'll have to make do with fewer showings, because they won't be able to sell out seats every night.

They'll also wind up making due with fewer shows in general. There won't be enough of a clientele to sustain as many as there are right now.

jag

[Anita18]

Ehhhh....the Jaguar brand (and Land Rover) has had quite a few issues in terms of profitability and customer satisfaction (several recalls in the last few years). To the point that Ford divested from them and they're now owned by Indian giant Tata, and are still looking for a bit of a handout from the British government. So, Jaguar isn't a very good example, I'm afraid. They've about priced themselves out of existence as well. :o
Well, I could just as easily replace "Jaguar" with "Aston Martin," "Lamborghini," "Bentley," or "Rolls Royce." The scenario with Jaguar was just something that I personally witnessed. :funny:

Granted, I'm not that familiar with the economic state of those brands either, so don't jump on me if they're all going down. :oldrazz: They just aren't making the news as much as Ford, Chrysler, or Toyota.

[Fading]

...you have countless people with this mindset that being "famous" is the only way to be worthwhile in our society and that's the **** we need to shake loose....

People need to re-learn the value of a fair days work, to live within their means, and to determine their own self worth

I agree, and I feel old for saying this (25 old?), but it's not getting any better with each generation. Ppl have this feeling of entitlement for doing nothing. They want high paying jobs with no physical labor. Our education is in the crapper compared to even some 3rd world countries. We're consumer whores, the first or second fattest nation on Earth. We willingly give up freedoms for comfort.

I know these complaints are probably getting old, and I'm really not ranting, but we're just becoming a weak nation. We're pretty much becoming the opposite of what our forefathers wanted.

In the long run this recession might be worth it if we toughen up, and learn to be more responsible with our $$.

[BlackLantern]

Fading, I'm 29 and I've felt the same way since I was 22 or 23...it's not about age, it's about responsibility...

[Nivek]

I'm 34, it doesn't get better, it get's worse. It really bothers you when young people start applying where you work for a long period of time, and ask for what your making right off the bat. It's "bring your gun to work day" when your employers give in.

[jaguarr]

I'm 34, it doesn't get better, it get's worse. It really bothers you when young people start applying where you work for a long period of time, and ask for what your making right off the bat. It's "bring your gun to work day" when your employers give in.

I turn 40 in June. I laugh at the attitude of some of the kids coming out of school these days. One of my buddy's kids is 23 and just got out of school in December with a Marketing degree and his dad and I have been stunned that he's turned away some $40-45k a year salary jobs because he thinks he should be automatically making what the seasoned vets in the business are making. All attempts to explain that's not how it works to him have been ignored or refuted. He had moved back in with his folks after he graduated, but my buddy just told him this weekend he's got until the end of February to get his ass a job and move out, so maybe that will change his tune. :hehe:

jag

[Kelly]

I even see it in teacher's coming out of college...

When I started, I was given a textbook, a notebook with some worksheets in it, an overhead projector, and a box of chalk.

That was it, put in a classroom, and expected to teach...



Now, they have a full curriculum, that has lesson plans done already, 6 computers in their rooms, an LCD projector, Elmo, and smart board......

And I had 2 teachers a couple of years ago, that were mad because the scan tron machine broke down and they had to grade their tests by hand....

They don't teach in my department anymore....


But there sense of entitlement was unbelievably HUGE.......

[SuBe]

I even see it in teacher's coming out of college...

When I started, I was given a textbook, a notebook with some worksheets in it, an overhead projector, and a box of chalk.

That was it, put in a classroom, and expected to teach...



Now, they have a full curriculum, that has lesson plans done already, 6 computers in their rooms, an LCD projector, Elmo, and smart board......

And I had 2 teachers a couple of years ago, that were mad because the scan tron machine broke down and they had to grade their tests by hand....

They don't teach in my department anymore....


But there sense of entitlement was unbelievably HUGE.......
I blame the Government.

[Kelly]

I blame the Government.


I blame their parents......

[SuBe]

I blame their parents......
Where did the Parents learn it?

Some where, some one learned that Trophys had to be given to kids that show up, not just win at sports. Some where, some one learned that Self Esteem is more important than accomplishment. Some where, some one taught that if you don't succeed, you can go to Big Mommy Government to Bail you out. There's "always" a "safety net" now-a-days.

[Marx]

I even see it in teacher's coming out of college...

When I started, I was given a textbook, a notebook with some worksheets in it, an overhead projector, and a box of chalk.

That was it, put in a classroom, and expected to teach...



Now, they have a full curriculum, that has lesson plans done already, 6 computers in their rooms, an LCD projector, Elmo, and smart board......

And I had 2 teachers a couple of years ago, that were mad because the scan tron machine broke down and they had to grade their tests by hand....

They don't teach in my department anymore....


But there sense of entitlement was unbelievably HUGE.......

Wow...

[Kelly]

Where did the Parents learn it?

Some where, some one learned that Trophys had to be given to kids that show up, not just win at sports. Some where, some one learned that Self Esteem is more important than accomplishment. Some where, some one taught that if you don't succeed, you can go to Big Mommy Government to Bail you out. There's "always" a "safety net" now-a-days.


I think it goes back several generations...

You had a generation that was all about "working hard for what they got......depression generation".....that wanted more for their kids than they had and therefore "gave" them alot, without teaching them a strong work ethic.....that generation turned into the "free love" generation.....that were lax with the next two generations...this went on into the 70's.......and now we have a generation that has had 2 generations of "want more, work less" and here we are......

IMO, the government give outs are to a few, not the masses.....I don't think that could hit an entire generation of people....maybe a demographic of that group, but not the masses.

[jaguarr]

Where did the Parents learn it?

Some where, some one learned that Trophys had to be given to kids that show up, not just win at sports. Some where, some one learned that Self Esteem is more important than accomplishment. Some where, some one taught that if you don't succeed, you can go to Big Mommy Government to Bail you out. There's "always" a "safety net" now-a-days.

I could teach you why you are wrong, but the Scantron is on the fritz again.

jag

[SuBe]

I could teach you why you are wrong, but the Scantron is on the fritz again.

jag
That's the problem, you trusted the Scantron, instead of the Megatron. :nono:

[Marx]

I could teach you why you are wrong, but the Scantron is on the fritz again.

jag

:hehe:

[SuBe]

I think it goes back several generations...

You had a generation that was all about "working hard for what they got......depression generation".....that wanted more for their kids than they had and therefore "gave" them alot, without teaching them a strong work ethic.....that generation turned into the "free love" generation.....that were lax with the next two generations...this went on into the 70's.......and now we have a generation that has had 2 generations of "want more, work less" and here we are......

IMO, the government give outs are to a few, not the masses.....I don't think that could hit an entire generation of people....maybe a demographic of that group, but not the masses.And that "Work Hard for what you Got" Generation pushed hard for the GI Bill, a Government Handout. It is the Government luring people with Promises for Votes. Creating False Comfort. Yes, it took several Generations, but the Government and the Great Social Experiments had lasting repurcussions.

[Kelly]

Well, sooooooooooooooooooooo since I got through college on Pell Grants, I guess I'm one of those people with their hand out as well?????????

[jaguarr]

Well, sooooooooooooooooooooo since I got through college on Pell Grants, I guess I'm one of those people with their hand out as well?????????

Freeloader! :cmad:

jag

[SuBe]

Well, sooooooooooooooooooooo since I got through college on Pell Grants, I guess I'm one of those people with their hand out as well?????????
Did you, or are you, paying it back? There's a difference if you ask for a loan vs asking for a handout.

[BlackLantern]

I served in the military and got the GI Bill, I gave 6 years of my life to this country, I don't think a college education is too much too ask for...

I blame the generations that came through in the 60's and 70's....all these free love, war protesting, acid dropping, anti-establishment wankers breeded and didn't want to put the hammer down on their kids....that's where it started....

I cry on the inside when I see a couple....the man wearing a flat brimmed hat, piercings, tattoos walking with his fake tan, tramp stamped, bad dye job hussy and they are pushing a stroller that has a baby wearing sean john clothes and Baby Timbaland boots...

[BlackLantern]

edit double post

[Holiday]

I cry on the inside when I see a couple....the man wearing a flat brimmed hat, piercings, tattoos walking with his fake tan, tramp stamped, bad dye job hussy and they are pushing a stroller that has a baby wearing sean john clothes and Baby Timbaland boots...

But my baby looks good in Sean John! :cmad:

:oldrazz:

[Anita18]

I turn 40 in June. I laugh at the attitude of some of the kids coming out of school these days. One of my buddy's kids is 23 and just got out of school in December with a Marketing degree and his dad and I have been stunned that he's turned away some $40-45k a year salary jobs because he thinks he should be automatically making what the seasoned vets in the business are making.
It's also the way the world works now. Back in the day, someone could start in the mailroom of a company and work his way up to CEO if he so desired. It doesn't happen anymore - you have to go to a snazzy business school and prop yourself up with lots of abbreviations after your name. I got into the workforce 2 years ago and in the career center, we were told not to go too low when it comes to asking salary, or else you'll come off as a pushover. Of course, you can't go too high either, LOL.

But that sort of thing is months over. Now the economy is so bad, people really should just take what they can get. :oldrazz: My sister, with her master's degree and multiple college graduation awards, finally had to settle with a job that pays as much as mine, even though she had been expecting something $20K/year more before the economy tanked. You can't be picky anymore.

[jaguarr]

It's also the way the world works now. Back in the day, someone could start in the mailroom of a company and work his way up to CEO if he so desired. It doesn't happen anymore - you have to go to a snazzy business school and prop yourself up with lots of abbreviations after your name. I got into the workforce 2 years ago and in the career center, we were told not to go too low when it comes to asking salary, or else you'll come off as a pushover. Of course, you can't go too high either, LOL.

But that sort of thing is months over. Now the economy is so bad, people really should just take what they can get. :oldrazz: My sister, with her master's degree and multiple college graduation awards, finally had to settle with a job that pays as much as mine, even though she had been expecting something $20K/year more before the economy tanked. You can't be picky anymore.

Yeah, but there's still such a thing as entry level positions and proportionate pay in most companies and corporations for new college hires. ;)

jag

[Kelly]

This economy is even hitting education...

The Dallas Independent School District had to lay off 100's of teachers because they are close to bankrupt...
Usually you may see a mass lay off of new teachers up to 3 years....but they were actually laying off tenured teachers.....

Unbelievable......of course DISD is a crappy school district, so someone was probably skimming and screwed the whole thing up....

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

ALCOA is cutting 13,500 jobs.

[Marx]

NORTH CAROLINA JOBLESS CLAIMS CRASH STATE'S WEBSITE
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/north-carolina-jobless-cl_n_155786.html

Unemployment is up so much in North Carolina that the state's Internet site for benefits crashed twice this week under a rush of claims.
Once the system was back up, the state set one-day records both for the amount of unemployment benefits paid and for the number of transactions, officials said Tuesday.

The number of people trying to sign up online for new or continuing benefits was as much as triple pre-recession levels Sunday and Monday, the Employment Security Commission said. That volume, together with a phone line problem, overwhelmed the agency's computers and prevented some people from filing claims.

The system was working again by Monday afternoon after the ESC added another server and demand lessened, said ESC spokesman Andy James.

On Monday, the state paid more than $31.5 million in unemployment insurance benefits and handled more than 106,000 transactions _ both one-day records, James said. The previous records weren't immediately available, but James said the Web site might have gotten 23,000 hits on a busy day 18 months ago.

The phone line problem was fixed Sunday, when 74,000 people tried to access the system, and the ESC thought the overload problem had been handled as well. But the system failed again Monday when about 55,000 people tried to file.

[redfirebird2008]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/obama-to-ban-earmarks-fro_n_155787.html

Anybody think he'll actually be able to pull off an earmark-free piece of legislation? I hope he can. THAT would be a pretty big change from what's been going on in Washington for so many years.

[Marx]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/obama-to-ban-earmarks-fro_n_155787.html

Anybody think he'll actually be able to pull off an earmark-free piece of legislation? I hope he can. THAT would be a pretty big change from what's been going on in Washington for so many years.

I still remember John McCain, the self-proclaimed 'fighter of pork barrel spending' trumpeting the first failed financial bailout...then voting for the second version that only passed BECAUSE it was loaded with pork. If Obama wants to try this route, I wish him luck!

[jaguarr]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/obama-to-ban-earmarks-fro_n_155787.html

Anybody think he'll actually be able to pull off an earmark-free piece of legislation? I hope he can. THAT would be a pretty big change from what's been going on in Washington for so many years.

It would be a huge improvement to our system if he can get Congress behind this idea. I'd love to see these a-holes start doing the right thing for a change instead of trying to piggy-back all their pet projects onto important legislation. :up:

jag

[SuBe]

It would be a huge improvement to our system if he can get Congress behind this idea. I'd love to see these a-holes start doing the right thing for a change instead of trying to piggy-back all their pet projects onto important legislation. :up:

jag
I Agree.

[Marx]

PORN INDUSTRY ASKS FOR BAILOUT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/07/porn-industry-seeks-federal-bailout/#more-34724

Another major American industry is asking for assistance as the global financial crisis continues: Hustler publisher Larry Flynt and Girls Gone Wild CEO Joe Francis said Wednesday they will request that Congress allocate $5 billion for a bailout of the adult entertainment industry.

“The take here is that everyone and their mother want to be bailed out from the banks to the big three,” said Owen Moogan, spokesman for Larry Flynt. “The porn industry has been hurt by the downturn like everyone else and they are going to ask for the $5 billion. Is it the most serious thing in the world? Is it going to make the lives of Americans better if it happens? It is not for them to determine.”

Francis said in a statement that “the US government should actively support the adult industry's survival and growth, just as it feels the need to support any other industry cherished by the American people."

“We should be delivering [the request] by the end of today to our congressmen and [Secretary of the Treasury Henry] Paulson asking for this $5 billion dollar bailout,” he told CNN Wednesday.


Flynt and Francis concede the industry itself is in no financial danger — DVD sales have slipped over the past year, but Web traffic has continued to grow.

But the industry leaders said the issue is a nation in need. "People are too depressed to be sexually active," Flynt said in the statement. "This is very unhealthy as a nation. Americans can do without cars and such but they cannot do without sex."

"With all this economic misery and people losing all that money, sex is the farthest thing from their mind. It's time for congress to rejuvenate the sexual appetite of America. The only way they can do this is by supporting the adult industry and doing it quickly."

So far, there has been no congressional reaction to the request.

Oh my... :wow:

[Anita18]

PORN INDUSTRY ASKS FOR BAILOUT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/07/porn-industry-seeks-federal-bailout/#more-34724



Oh my... :wow:
:lmao:

That's it - the sign of the apocalypse!

[jaguarr]

LOL! No one makes ham-fisted philosophical and political points (and gets much-craved publicity for it in the process) like Larry Flynt. :hehe:

jag

[The Senator]

PORN INDUSTRY ASKS FOR BAILOUT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/07/porn-industry-seeks-federal-bailout/#more-34724



Oh my... :wow:

If we're bailing out the car companies, then I see no reason why we shouldn't bail out every industry which asks for money.

[BlackLantern]

Larry is just yanking Congress' chain for the hell of it....he's just doing it to see if they'll give it to him...Joe Francis did just get out of jail, so he might actually need some money

[jaguarr]

If we're bailing out the car companies, then I see no reason why we shouldn't bail out every industry which asks for money.

Which is sort of the point Flynt is trying to get at, I suspect; that the bailouts have been showing favoritism in who gets them and who doesn't, and that money is being given to industries that really don't deserve it. I suspect we'll find out after he's denied (I'm positive that he will be) and then makes a big stink out of it.

jag

[BlackLantern]

This country needs more lube, dammit!!!

[SuBe]

I couldn't say it better Lazlo. We need to lube the Machine that is our Economy!

[Anita18]

Larry is just yanking Congress' chain for the hell of it....he's just doing it to see if they'll give it to him...Joe Francis did just get out of jail, so he might actually need some money
I don't have any opinion of Larry Flynt, but Joe Francis needs to DIAF. :cmad:

(DIAF = die in a fire. I picked that up from reading too many gossip blogs. :oldrazz: )

[Raiden]

Which is sort of the point Flynt is trying to get at, I suspect; that the bailouts have been showing favoritism in who gets them and who doesn't, and that money is being given to industries that really don't deserve it. I suspect we'll find out after he's denied (I'm positive that he will be) and then makes a big stink out of it.

jag

Larry Flynt has a point. Congress has given the ailing banks billions of dollars, but do we even know where all those money went? Is it really to help the banks getting back on their feet, or are those money going to the pocketbook of those rich executives and CEOs? Even though it is done to mock the Congress, I think Flynt is right-on about them giving too much money to those who don't really deserve them.

[Kelly]

I think I said this before, but I thought it was pretty interesting......and I'm waiting to see what comes of it.

Fox Business News Channel is sueing the US government, because they have asked on several occassions for documentation as to where bailout money has gone, who it has gone to, how much has been spent, what it has been spent on, etc.....which is "by law" public information......and they have not received anything....so they are sueing.

[Kelly]

Did you, or are you, paying it back? There's a difference if you ask for a loan vs asking for a handout.


Pell Grants are not loans, they are for those who's family cannot afford a college education.....a portion of my college was paid by these, scholarships, and short term loans....


Had I not had the Pell Grants, I would not have been able to afford to go to college.....

[Kelly]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/obama-to-ban-earmarks-fro_n_155787.html

Anybody think he'll actually be able to pull off an earmark-free piece of legislation? I hope he can. THAT would be a pretty big change from what's been going on in Washington for so many years.


Hell no, not with "Pelosi, I love the smell of bacon" in the House.....

[Fenrir]

This country needs more lube, dammit!!!

Yeah! Cuz it's about to take it up the ass like nobody's business, yo!

Massive pun overload. :lmao:

[jaguarr]

Larry Flynt has a point. Congress has given the ailing banks billions of dollars, but do we even know where all those money went? Is it really to help the banks getting back on their feet, or are those money going to the pocketbook of those rich executives and CEOs? Even though it is done to mock the Congress, I think Flynt is right-on about them giving too much money to those who don't really deserve them.

Oh, I don't disagree with him at all. I just get a chuckle out of the way he goes about making his points.

I think I said this before, but I thought it was pretty interesting......and I'm waiting to see what comes of it.

Fox Business News Channel is sueing the US government, because they have asked on several occassions for documentation as to where bailout money has gone, who it has gone to, how much has been spent, what it has been spent on, etc.....which is "by law" public information......and they have not received anything....so they are sueing.

I remember seeing a report on my local news about how a lot of these banks can't even report back where the bailout money they were given went to. I have some serious problems with that.

jag

[Kelly]

Oh, I don't disagree with him at all. I just get a chuckle out of the way he goes about making his points.



I remember seeing a report on my local news about how a lot of these banks can't even report back where the bailout money they were given went to. I have some serious problems with that.

jag

You're not joking.....I wish all of the business news stations would jump on the bandwagon.................I want the **** to hit the fan about this.....

Fox Business News is pissed......they are not messing around with this.......Cavuto was absolutely livid the other day............he could barely talk he was so pissed.....lol

[jaguarr]

For Cavuto to be without words requires some serious amounts of anger. LOL!

jag

[BlackLantern]

I'm not a fan of Fox News, but I like Neil Cavuto...he's always seemed to operate outside of the cloud of BS

[Marx]

I remember seeing a report on my local news about how a lot of these banks can't even report back where the bailout money they were given went to. I have some serious problems with that.

jag

We all should have serious problems with that. It's a disgrace.

[Marx]

BAD, BAD, AND MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

WALGREENS is cutting 1,000 jobs.

MACY'S is closing 11 stores.

WAL*MART is posting 'weaker than expected' holiday sales.

[Venom'sDad]

Obama cares only to socialize the country... he's telling the country that he cares nothing about deficits, just his Socialist Agenda.

[Marx]

Obama cares only to socialize the country... he's telling the country that he cares nothing about deficits, just his Socialist Agenda.

Obama is not a socialist, nor does he have a socialist agenda. Try again VD.

[Venom'sDad]

Take your blinders off

[jaguarr]

Obama cares only to socialize the country... he's telling the country that he cares nothing about deficits, just his Socialist Agenda.

Can someone tell me which of these smiley's goes best with the post above, here? I really like :facepalm ,but feel it might make my butt look too big and it could overpower the ensemble. I also like :whatever: , but feel it's a bit too understated for the overall look.

jag

[Marx]

Take your blinders off

I would recommend that you take your partisans off. :dry:

[Venom'sDad]

Funnn neee... whatever, take your blinders off

[Marx]

Can someone tell me which of these smiley's goes best with the post above, here? I really like :facepalm ,but feel it might make my butt look too big and it could overpower the ensemble. I also like :whatever: , but feel it's a bit too understated for the overall look.

jag

There's also the eyes popping out of the head one. And the banging head against a brick wall one. Sadly, I do not believe those are in the smiley database. So I'm left with :csad:.

[Marx]

Funnn neee... whatever, take your blinders off

Are you also of the same belief that Obama is a muslim? Do you refer to him as Barack Obama? Or B. Hussein Obama?

[Venom'sDad]

Think it's clear who is being partisan

[Marx]

Are you also of the same belief that Obama is a muslim? Do you refer to him as Barack Obama? Or B. Hussein Obama?

Think it's clear who is being partisan

I'm not the one being partisan VD. I am asking you some questions that I would really like to know the answers to.

[Venom'sDad]

Well, it's obviously you have no problem with what Obama will attempt to do, because like most on these boards, detest Capitalism... which built this country and what this country was founded upon. Most of the world are adapting Capitalism, while we are moving towards Socialism. Go Figure.

This country became the strongest in the world because of Capitalism... now look how weak this country has become by integrating Socialist policies.

[Anita18]

Well, it's obviously you have no problem with what Obama will attempt to do, because like most on these boards, detest Capitalism... which built this country and what this country was founded upon. Most of the world are adapting Capitalism, while we are moving towards Socialism. Go Figure.

This country became the strongest in the world because of Capitalism... now look how weak this country has become by integrating Socialist policies.
If "socialism" means regulating the *****tards on Wall Street who don't know what the heck they're doing with our money, I'm all for it.

[Marx]

Well, it's obviously you have no problem with what Obama will attempt to do, because like most on these boards, detest Capitalism... which built this country and what this country was founded upon. Most of the world are adapting Capitalism, while we are moving towards Socialism. Go Figure.

This country became the strongest in the world because of Capitalism... now look how weak this country has become by integrating Socialist policies.

And you have avoided my questions. Go figure.

[Venom'sDad]

Just look at what you are saying... you have no clue whatsoever, Anita18. ^

[Venom'sDad]

More like ignore such a stupid question.

[Marx]

edit

[Marx]

More like ignore such a stupid question.

You called me a partisan while you're screaming about 'Obamaz bein a socialzt!!!!oneone111!!!1'

In my experience, the ones screaming such things are usually the ones that call Obama 'Hussein' or refer to him as a muslim.

[Venom'sDad]

That is the most absurd thing I have heard thus far today... Thanks for wasting my time.

[jaguarr]

Just look at what you are saying... you have no clue whatsoever, Anita18. ^

And you have yet to say ANYTHING that demonstrates how Obama is a Socialist in any way, shape or form other than what appears to be your opinion. And your slinging of thinly veiled insults tends to make me think we're dealing with a case of "Any economic policies that don't fit into Venom's Dad's neat little ideas of what constitutes Capitalism are automatically Socialism" more than anything else. ;)

jag

[Marx]

That is the dumbest thing I have heard thus far today... Thanks for wasting my time.

Same to you VD. http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Anita18]

Just look at what you are saying... you have no clue whatsoever, Anita18. ^
Care to explain it to me then? I recently went through 2 NYT articles and one hour-long "This American Life" podcast about how we got into this mess, so pardon me if I have a low opinion of Wall Street right now. :o But insuring bonds for billions more than what they're actually worth totally makes sense free-market-wise. :oldrazz:

I'm not saying give bailouts to anyone who asks. Dying companies should hypothetically fail, of which I also include rebooted completely - clean slate, fire every executive, start over. But I don't think we should leave greedy people with access to trillions of dollars alone to their own devices.

[SuBe]

Care to explain it to me then? I recently went through 2 NYT articles and one hour-long "This American Life" podcast about how we got into this mess, so pardon me if I have a low opinion of Wall Street right now. :o But insuring bonds for billions more than what they're actually worth totally makes sense free-market-wise. :oldrazz:

I'm not saying give bailouts to anyone who asks. Dying companies should hypothetically fail, of which I also include rebooted completely - clean slate, fire every executive, start over. But I don't think we should leave greedy people with access to trillions of dollars alone to their own devices.
Then why do we let our Government do that?

[Venom'sDad]

His policy is dictating that or do you not see it... jag?

[Anita18]

Then why do we let our Government do that?
At least the US government has SOME sign of self-regulation - that's why we often have House/Senate/Prez at odds with each other and nothing gets done. :funny: Wall Street didn't have anything at all.

[jaguarr]

His policy is dictating that or do you not see it... jag?

Uhhh...you realize a lot of this policy has been in place long before Obama got the job, right? Including the pieces around the bailout? I have yet to hear anyone reasonably demonstrate how Obama's policies don't fit into modern Capitalism, so knock yourself out; impress me.

jag

[Marx]

SuBe's here! He must have smelled some FairTax! :hehe:

[Venom'sDad]

Care to explain it to me then? I recently went through 2 NYT articles and one hour-long "This American Life" podcast about how we got into this mess, so pardon me if I have a low opinion of Wall Street right now. :o But insuring bonds for billions more than what they're actually worth totally makes sense free-market-wise. :oldrazz:

I'm not saying give bailouts to anyone who asks. Dying companies should hypothetically fail, of which I also include rebooted completely - clean slate, fire every executive, start over. But I don't think we should leave greedy people with access to trillions of dollars alone to their own devices.

Anita... Wall Street is failing because of the massive regulation that is place upon them. These Socialist Policies are hending Wall Street from doing what it does best... create capital.

Now you are either for or against the bailout... there is no in between. One can't roam aimlessly.

[jaguarr]

SuBe's here! He must have smelled some FairTax! :hehe:

Sorry. That was me. I have a little gas today. :o

jag

[Marx]

Sorry. That was me. I have a little gas today. :o

jag

Do you REALIZE WHAT YOU'VE DONE!?!?!

Now we have to go find him again and put him back in his cage! You know, I still have scars from the last time! He's a biter! :funny:

[Anita18]

Anita... Wall Street is failing because of the massive regulation that is place upon them. These Socialist Policies are hending Wall Street from doing what it does best... create capital.
Did you just say that Wall Street was massively regulated?

Then how the heck did Bernie Madoff pull off what he did? The biggest Ponzi scheme in history. $50 BILLION. Gone. You'd think someone would notice the sketchiness (or heed it) if they were doing a good job regulating...

The fund rating people are paid by the people they rate. Tell me how much sense that makes. That's why funds containing subprime mortgages were top-rated for years - nobody knew what was in those funds and nobody cared!

Aaaaagh, the more I think about it the angrier I get.

[SuBe]

At least the US government has SOME sign of self-regulation - that's why we often have House/Senate/Prez at odds with each other and nothing gets done. :funny: Wall Street didn't have anything at all.
They have investors, Share Holders and Board Members to appeaze. Those Investors gave their money willingly, if they don't act right, and earn them money, their money goes somewhere else.

The US Government puts a gun to your head and tells you you MUST pay them or you go to jail. The US Government, if they don't act right, or spend your money how you don't like it, you can't just re-invest it elsewhere. You are stuck with them. And you think you can just vote them out, but, all they have to do is promise to give you more out of the Public Treasury, then they have your vote again.

[SuBe]

SuBe's here! He must have smelled some FairTax! :hehe:

Sorry. That was me. I have a little gas today. :o

jag
I S*** FairTax. :word:

[Venom'sDad]

Uhhh...you realize a lot of this policy has been in place long before Obama got the job, right? Including the pieces around the bailout? I have yet to hear anyone reasonably demonstrate how Obama's policies don't fit into modern Capitalism, so knock yourself out; impress me.

jag

I am very much aware of that jag. I been on these boards long before there was a "Political Board" stating that both parties have been pushing and voting for similar policies that leads this country towards a European Style Socialist Society.

The fact that this country is abandoning Capitalism and adopting this nanny states Socialist policies is why American is being reduce to a Second World Society. Understand, I don't think this country will ever allow itself to sink to Third World Status; but with the mind set that's out there, we may not be able to withstand the momentum downwards.

The economy is still the best in the world, but Obama said himself, that he cares not for deficits. I'm not saying this. That sir is totally against the premiss for Capitalism. That tells me he either don't understand economics or does not care about fiscal responsibility like the rest of our government. And they think by punishing business and nationalizing others, they are going to fix the problem, as spending continue to balloon.

[jaguarr]

I am very much aware of that jag. I been on these boards long before there was a "Political Board" stating that both parties have been pushing and voting for similar policies that leads this country towards a European Style Socialist Society.

The fact that this country is abandoning Capitalism and adopting this nanny states Socialist policies is why American is being reduce to a Second World Society. Understand, I don't think this country will ever allow itself to sink to Third World Status; but with the mind set that's out there, we may not be able to withstand the momentum downwards.

The economy is still the best in the world, but Obama said himself, that he cares not for deficits. I'm not saying this. That sir is totally against the premiss for Capitalism. That tells me he either don't understand economics or does not care about fiscal responsibility like the rest of our government. And they think by punishing business and nationalizing others, they are going to fix the problem, as spending continue to balloon.

You still haven't demonstrated how Obama is a Socialist to me.

jag

[Venom'sDad]

Did you just say that Wall Street was massively regulated?

Then how the heck did Bernie Madoff pull off what he did? The biggest Ponzi scheme in history. $50 BILLION. Gone. You'd think someone would notice the sketchiness (or heed it) if they were doing a good job regulating....

You are using this incident to imply that it rampant. It's not. Look at the body of Wall Street and it's long history. Wall Street flourish when government play a minor role. You have got to understand the economics of it.

[SuBe]

Here's a good article about Taxation and how it affects the Economy, if anyone is interested.

http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/tickfast.shtml

[Kelly]

I S*** FairTax. :word:

I........................... um.......................................well..... ......................I have no idea how to reply to this....

[jaguarr]

I........................... um.......................................well..... ......................I have no idea how to reply to this....

Pass him some duty free Charmin?

jag

[SuBe]

I........................... um.......................................well..... ......................I have no idea how to reply to this....
No response needed, however, if you have any questions about the FairTax, I'll be glad to answer them. It's the only way to save this economy, grow it, and spread Economic Liberty across the Globe, while letting you keep 100% of your Paycheck and you will never need to file Taxes with the Government Again, and they can't hold a gun to your head to make you pay them.

[Kelly]

No response needed, however, if you have any questions about the FairTax, I'll be glad to answer them. It's the only way to save this economy, grow it, and spread Economic Liberty across the Globe, while letting you keep 100% of your Paycheck and you will never need to file Taxes with the Government Again, and they can't hold a gun to your head to make you pay them.


I am ................................. not........................ going to talk to you while you are on the pot..........:o

[SuBe]

I am ................................. not........................ going to talk to you while you are on the pot..........:o
I am not, I'm at work. But, I'm leaving soon. If you do have any questions concerning the FairTax, ask in the FairTax Thread, I'll be happy to answer.

I never poop and post, it's not appropriate. :o

[Kelly]

I think that is actually in the FAQ's.........somewhere...............I was reading them while I was on the.......................oh um, the other day....

[Marx]

You know...I picture SuBe in a room with FairTax everything! (ala Spaceballs!)

FairTax! the toilet paper
FairTax! the picture frame
FairTax! the official movie poster
FairTax! the energy drink
FairTax! the body towel
FairTax! the soap

etc...etc...

:lmao:

[jaguarr]

You know...I picture SuBe in a room with FairTax everything! (ala Spaceball!)

FairTax! the toilet paper
FairTax! the picture frame
FairTax! the official movie poster
FairTax! the energy drink
FairTax! the body towel
FairTax! the soap

etc...etc...

:lmao:

Haha! Lounging in his Fairtax boxers while eating Fairtax Cheesey Puffs and posting on the Hype from his Fairtax laptop. That's it....Fairtax is just like Amway! :eek:

jag

[Marx]

Haha! Lounging in his Fairtax boxers while eating Fairtax Cheesey Puffs and posting on the Hype from his Fairtax laptop. That's it....Fairtax is just like Amway! :eek:

jag

:funny:

[Marx]

MORE BAD EMPLOYMENT NEWS...

The UNEMPLOYMENT RATING has risen to 7.2 percent.

:csad:

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

WORLD WRESTLING ENTERTAINMENT is laying off ten percent of its workforce.

[Darthphere]

Good God Almighty!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z139/darthphere_stuff/jr.jpg

[jaguarr]

LOL...WWE news in the Economy thread, Marx? Slow news day? :funny:

jag

[BlackLantern]

They did that yesterday, I have a friend who works in the travel department....they avoided the axe, but they cut some people from WWE.com, accounting, tv production

[Marx]

LOL...WWE news in the Economy thread, Marx? Slow news day? :funny:

jag

:oldrazz:

[Marx]

W.H. ISSUES STATEMENT ON DECEMBER JOBS REPORT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/09/wh-issues-statement-on-the-december-jobs-report/

White House Press Secretary Dana Perino issued the following statement friday:

Today’s job report reflects the sharp slowdown in economic activity caused by problems in the housing and credit markets. Monthly job losses have been nearly six times higher since problems in the financial markets worsened in september. Understanding how severe the problem was, the president worked aggressively to address the root causes of the current economic problems, and he signed an additional expansion of unemployment insurance benefits to help more americans weather the downturn. The administration has taken bold and decisive actions to help the economy, but those actions will take time to have their full effect. Americans can have faith that the economy can return to growth and job creation this year.

[jaguarr]

W.H. ISSUES STATEMENT ON DECEMBER JOBS REPORT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/09/wh-issues-statement-on-the-december-jobs-report/


:rolleyes:

Basically, her statement is meant to set the stage for Bush to take credit once the economy comes back and stabilizes. :down

jag

[BlackLantern]

She was on the Daily Show last night....I just wanted to throw her over that desk and conquer her for SPARTA!!!!

[Marx]

She was on the Daily Show last night....I just wanted to throw her over that desk and conquer her for SPARTA!!!!

:funny:

[Kelly]

What does that mean?.....

Beat her up, or rape her?

[SuBe]

Reverse California Gold Rush

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154816733469917.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Tax Code makes producers and entrepreneurs leave California.

[Marx]

EVEN MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

THE TIMES SQUARE VIRGIN MEGASTORE IN NYC is closing in April.

Wow. :csad:

[danoyse]

The Virgin Megastore closing has been rumored forever now. Not surprised to hear that they are finally closing it. The store has always been ridiculously overpriced, I haven't bought anything there in years.

[Marx]

The Virgin Megastore closing has been rumored forever now. Not surprised to hear that they are finally closing it. The store has always been ridiculously overpriced, I haven't bought anything there in years.

It's definately overpriced, but it is a very noticable part of Times Square.

[danoyse]

It's definately overpriced, but it is a very noticable part of Times Square.

It was, but I think the big Toys R Us took over as the most popular spot in Times Square awhile ago.

Virgin was the best place to get Broadway cast albums though. They were always on sale. I would always go there after the show instead of buying the CD in the theater. Although now I just get them off iTunes, so I'm sure that didn't help them much.

[Marx]

MORE BAD COMPANY NEWS...

MOTOROLA announced that it will be cutting 4,000 more jobs in 2009. (This, in addition, to the 3,000 announced in October.)