Discussion/Proposal: Spin-Off Seasons

[Matt Murdock]

We've all read 'em, "What If...?" comics. Some of us love them, some of us don't. There was, however, considerable enthusiasm for the What-If game. It was one of the first games I joined, and got quite a few people thinking about the different directions they'd want to take specific characters.

The entire idea basically stems from an idea MB and I had while throwing ideas back and forth.

Peter Parker: I had another idea for a game
Batman: Oh, Jesus.
Batman: *straps self in*
Batman: HIT ME!
Peter Parker: think of night in the museum, combined with toy story, combined with heroes.
Peter Parker: Heroes as in Spider-Man and Superman
Peter Parker: not gay NBC heroes
Peter Parker: Basically, the characters are toys, and the story develops with them learning about it.
Peter Parker: So, anything that's a toy can be played as.
Batman: Hunh.
Peter Parker: I literally just thought of this forty five seconds ago
Batman: Interesting.
Batman: I came up with the weirdest concept for an RPG the other day.

Peter Parker: Snap.
Peter Parker: *unzips*
Peter Parker: I'm ready.
Batman: Basically, think One Universe. Now, cut that in half, with the heroes being taken out.
Batman: Something causes the heroes to die out... leaving the villains.
Batman: With the heroes gone, the villains have to go against eachother to see who inherits the Earth.
Batman: Some of them become new heroes. Others just become even more evil.
Peter Parker: You could tie it directly into OU.
Peter Parker: That way, 90% of the origins are established
Peter Parker: We could have... alternate realities of our own game realities
Peter Parker: 0_o
Batman: ...
Peter Parker: I think I scared you away
Batman: No.
Batman: You gave me a gasm so big that I passed out.
Peter Parker: Heyyy.
Peter Parker: Isn't that twy's job?!
Batman: Usually, it is!
Batman: Which is why I'm scared!

...

Peter Parker: This could be how we re-tool the What If concept
Peter Parker: Make one-shot RPG seasons that branch off from other seasons
Batman: The only problem is if anyone would want to participate alongside other seasons, because I can't see the spin-offs outright replacing seasons.
Peter Parker: That's what I thought we were talking about?
Batman: I had no idea!
Peter Parker: Isn't that what would make it a "What If" season and not the next season of the game?
Batman: Stop confusing me!

Basically, the season set-up would look like this:



....... ....................................Mainstream RPG Season II
Mainstream RPG Season I ---<
....... ....................................What-If? Season I




The continuity could, hypothetically, continue in both realities. Just as an example:


...................... ..........OU RPG Season III, Established Continuity
OU RPG Season II ---<
...............................""What-If?" OU RPG - Season I


Continuity of the What-If season could theoretically continue for season after season if the idea had enough steam, or it could end on a dime. The beauty of the idea is that even if the "What If" season fails, the original game will continue on.

Thoughts from anyone else?

[Catman_prb]

A) How do you come up with this stuff?
B) The problem I can see is that it could get quite confusing.

[Harlekin]

I'm not sure about this...

[Byrd Man]

I won't lie and say I'm intrigued by this line of thought. But like Cats said, this wouldn't take long to get kinda confusing.

[Matt Murdock]

A) How do you come up with this stuff?
B) The problem I can see is that it could get quite confusing.

A) I have absolutely no idea. I'd say that it's just the fruit of a brainstorming session.

B) Absolutely it can get super confusing. Two seasons of the same game running concurrently and contemporaneously? That could really blow some minds. It'd take a massive amount of organizational time and dedication.

I believe, though, that I've developed a solution:

Instead of running the two seasons of, say, OU at the same time, we re-establish the "What If...?" game. the reason the other "What If" game failed, I think, was because we couldn't really come to terms with whether or not our seasons would end, or if they'd simply continue on with the changes we'd made.

Now, though, I think the idea at hand is applying the "What If...?" concept, not to characters, but to an entire game.

Continuing with the OU example, instead of having a Mainstream OU OOC and IC thread and a "What If...?" OU OOC and IC thread, totalling to four threads just for the OU game, we could have one set of OOC and IC threads for Mainstream OU, and one set of "What If...?" OOC and IC threads.

Basically, we'd be starting a new game, but we'd be basing it off of a pre-established continuity. Plus, if the game, or idea, fails, we'd be fine, since the Mainstream OU would be intact and moving along.

I'm sure I could've explained that better.

[Johnny Blaze]

The idea is interesting, but I'm not really sold on it.

Maybe once you all have had time to organize and assemble it better I'll change my tune, but for now I'm afraid I'll have to pass on it.

[Charlie No-One]

The problem I see though is people not following the continuity of one game so that would discourage others from joining the spin-off since they wouldn't really be knowledgeable on past seasons. Sure there could be a synopsis, but I think the idea alone would turn new people off from joining. It does have potential though.

[Matt Murdock]

Catman raised a good point online:

Why can't the "spin-off" season simply be done as an arc in the game?

Simply put: it absolutely could be. The only problem that that could potentially raise would be both the size and scope of player participation. In a massive "What If" arc in a mainstream game, you could end up devastating your character from a development perspective (see my work with Daredevil in Ultimate Marvel's last season for an example). Not only that, but if Ghost Rider and Spider-Man get sucked into a parallel dimension by Mephisto, then you're pretty much limiting the player-involvement to the three people who play GR, Spidey, and, maybe, Mephisto. It's incredibly limiting and, possibly, destructive to make the "What If's...?" canon in the game.

I think the idea has, somewhat, sparked some interest in folks, which is great!

Organization seems to be this thing's Achilles Heel, per se. I think I may have many of the bases covered, only I haven't quite been able to explain what I want to convey.

[Matt Murdock]

The problem I see though is people not following the continuity of one game so that would discourage others from joining the spin-off since they wouldn't really be knowledgeable on past seasons. Sure there could be a synopsis, but I think the idea alone would turn new people off from joining. It does have potential though.
That's absolutely true. This idea, in this stage, is geared only towards people currently in the selected games.

[Eddie Brock]

Catman raised a good point online:



Simply put: it absolutely could be. The only problem that that could potentially raise would be both the size and scope of player participation. In a massive "What If" arc in a mainstream game, you could end up devastating your character from a development perspective (see my work with Daredevil in Ultimate Marvel's last season for an example). Not only that, but if Ghost Rider and Spider-Man get sucked into a parallel dimension by Mephisto, then you're pretty much limiting the player-involvement to the three people who play GR, Spidey, and, maybe, Mephisto. It's incredibly limiting and, possibly, destructive to make the "What If's...?" canon in the game.

I think the idea has, somewhat, sparked some interest in folks, which is great!

Organization seems to be this thing's Achilles Heel, per se. I think I may have many of the bases covered, only I haven't quite been able to explain what I want to convey.
I want to do a Future Arc in Ultimate Marvel - just so I can show Spider-Woman's daughter.

[Matt Murdock]

There's a situation where the arc-route makes sense! :up:

It's not like you're saying "What if Spider-Woman's daughter was a six armed lesbian who had sex with Rogue and Jean Grey, and imploded half of New York?" it's just "Spider-Woman's daughter was born. Drinks all around!"

[Charlie No-One]

That's absolutely true. This idea, in this stage, is geared only towards people currently in the selected games.

Yeah, but if not everyone wants to do it, then the game won't be that active. I like the idea though.

MB and I did a flashback arc in Marvel sometime ago. I think if done properly flashback or alternative stories can be done in the initial RPG to a cool effect. I could see where problems would occur.

[Johnny Blaze]

The idea of a "What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded in Conquering the World" intrigues me the more I think about it. :o

[Matt Murdock]

Yeah, but if not everyone wants to do it, then the game won't be that active. I like the idea though.

MB and I did a flashback arc in Marvel sometime ago. I think if done probably flashback or alternative stories can be done in the initial RPG to a cool effect. I could see where problems would occur.

This could work as a flashback game, too. Though, a prerequisite would be that the story itself would need to have some sort of change or tweaking, just to fit with the "What If" style.

The idea of a "What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded in Conquering the World" intrigues me the more I think about it. :o

I liked this sentence up until the ":o". It scares me. :csad:

[Blacklight]

The idea of a "What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded in Conquering the World" intrigues me the more I think about it. :o
Jinkies! I just crapped me pants!

But just my two cents, I think that you probably can't have more than one or two (three tops) of these What-If seasons going on at a time. Because if every RPG had one, that would be a just a huge cluster**** and would confuse people more than it does now. So my suggestion, if this ends up happening, then no more than one or two What-if seasons going on at the same time.

[Matt Murdock]

I always planned for it to be one at a time. One game, one season of "What If...," and one idea at a time.

[Mr. Marko]

I absolutely love this idea! I only ever really stick around the Ult Marvel RPG, so another What If Ult Marvel would be amazing! :) Why make RPGs and desperately try to create a continuity when other RPGs already have great ones and we can turn them into two?! Question: If this were to go past season one, would it reboot every new season?

[absonic93]

Would a What If thing be a continuation, or would it be a new story every post?

[Matt Murdock]

I absolutely love this idea! I only ever really stick around the Ult Marvel RPG, so another What If Ult Marvel would be amazing! :) Why make RPGs and desperately try to create a continuity when other RPGs already have great ones and we can turn them into two?! Question: If this were to go past season one, would it reboot every new season?
The answer to that entirely depends on the enthusiasm for the arc of the people playing. The plan is as follows:


Before every season of the IC Thread starts, there would be, basically, a brain-storming session. Players would pitch ideas to each other, try to state their cases, and the like.
Once a consensus about the "What If...?" scenario and the game from which we're basing continuity have been decided, we'll take the concept and apply it to a season-long game. That's it. One season with the selected "What If...?"
From there, after a season was completed, we would have two options. First we might be able to continue the game in the current continuity. Making it the second season of the first "What if...?" However, the group would have to be entirely dedicated to the concept.
If we decide to drop the original "What If...?", then, essentially, a self-destruct of the game's continuity will be initiated. This will prevent duplicates of characters ending up in other Hype-RPG Universes. The temptation of people bringing the "What if...?" version of Spider-Man into the OU or Ultimate Game could become an issue.
Once we reach a consensus about a new idea, with a new "What If...?," and destroyed the first continuity, we'd pick a new one and start the cycle fresh.

:up:

[Mr. Marko]

Cool. I think it would be good if we maybe allowed two ideas, since one idea might not encompass all characters.

[Batman]

One question I have: Would the What If's require the characters to be played by the same player, or would it be a clean slate for everyone to start with?

For instance, say a What If? season started for UDC, in which Brainiac enslaved the world and started a global fascism goverment. Of course, Batman Superman and Wonder Woman would be required, but what if Spike, Andy, and I didn't want to play it? Would anyone just be allowed to take our reigns for that concept, or would those three have to be NPCed and/or dead?

Of course, this could vary from concept to concept, with some being the same players, some not being the same players, but I'm just curious.

[Matt Murdock]

One question I have: Would the What If's require the characters to be played by the same player, or would it be a clean slate for everyone to start with?

For instance, say a What If? season started for UDC, in which Brainiac enslaved the world and started a global fascism goverment. Of course, Batman Superman and Wonder Woman would be required, but what if Spike, Andy, and I didn't want to play it? Would anyone just be allowed to take our reigns for that concept, or would those three have to be NPCed and/or dead?

Of course, this could vary from concept to concept, with some being the same players, some not being the same players, but I'm just curious.

This is a problem I've encountered as well. Though I've never been a fan of "dibs," I think that that the player currently playing the character in the selected continuity should be given "preferential" treatment. Certainly, I think it would be unwise to declare the characters of every player who isn't interested a permanent-NPC would be unwise. That said, I think the player should certainly have a say in who picks up the proverbial reigns.

[Matt Murdock]

Cool. I think it would be good if we maybe allowed two ideas, since one idea might not encompass all characters.
That's what I meant by "brainstorming." I would hope that there were multiple ideas put on the table. Obviously, I'd want dozens of ideas to be on the table, and, for the ideas that people felt strongly enough about, I'd hope that the ideas could reach a certain understanding or combination of the ideas.

Obviously, "What If's...?" such as "every hero dies" and "every villain dies" simply won't work together. However, the "What If's...?" such as "the Silver Surfer didn't side with the heroes of Earth, causing the destruction of much of New York" and "a select few heroes have aligned themselves against another group" could mesh easily and well.

[Mr. Marko]

I think that, being a What If, it would be good if you wanted to develop an alternate history/story for your character, but if you're not planning on it, I would think it should be free to anyone.

"Hey, wait! I played Spidey last season, and I say you suck and can't play him."
"But...you're not even playing him here..."
"**** you and the horse you rode in on!"

Seems lame. The idea of What If is to tell other stories. Of course, if you wanna play your own character, that should be best.

[Gallagher]

Most certainly interested in this concept.

Having a future Ultimate Marvel branching off on a sort of what if Thor and Loki lived or what if Franklin Storm grows up and goes a little bit ape-****?

[Byrd Man]

"Hey, wait! I played Spidey last season, and I say you suck and can't play him."
"But...you're not even playing him here..."
"**** you and the horse you rode in on!"


.....who the hell is that suppose to be?! :cmad:

[Matt Murdock]

A byrd-personator, obviously.

[Matt Murdock]

I think that, being a What If, it would be good if you wanted to develop an alternate history/story for your character, but if you're not planning on it, I would think it should be free to anyone.

"Hey, wait! I played Spidey last season, and I say you suck and can't play him."
"But...you're not even playing him here..."
"**** you and the horse you rode in on!"

Seems lame. The idea of What If is to tell other stories. Of course, if you wanna play your own character, that should be best.

Your scenario seems to indicate that the final decision regarding approval would be left up to the person who currently plays the given character, I think. That wouldn't be the case at all. Their opinion would only be part of the approval process, the other being the quality of the application itself.

[Charlie No-One]

I think whoever played the character in the initial season should get first pick at reprising the role. If they do not accept, they are removed from the choosing process. Why should they have any sort of say in the character if they won't play the game?

[Matt Murdock]

Doesn't that philosophy hinge on the idea of the person not playing in the game, though? Say we base a continuity on the OU game and I, realizing the popularity of TDK, decide not to be a total dick and let Joker go to someone else. Should I not have a say in who he goes to?

Keep in mind that 99.9% of cases will simply be the poster with the character saying "yeah, I'm fine with that."

[Batman]

Doesn't that philosophy hinge on the idea of the person not playing in the game, though? Say we base a continuity on the OU game and I, realizing the popularity of TDK, decide not to be a total dick and let Joker go to someone else. Should I not have a say in who he goes to?

To be honest, if it's the What-If continuity, no, I don't think you should. Just like previous players rarely have a say of who get the character after they do, unless it's an underground trade. Depending on how long a character stays with a player, usually the character has had continuity made up between numerous different players, so it's no more their character than it is the game's.

Now, for the case of characters that have stayed with the player since the beginning of the game, I guess it mostly depends on how said player feels. I, personally, would have no issue with anyone else coming in to play Ultimate Batman for a What-If season, if I were not willing to do so myself. But someone like wiegeabo might have a problem with someone else strolling away from what he did with Sinestro in a What-If season of DC. But, the truth is... why should that player care in the first place? It's an alternate continuity. Nothing done in the What-If season would affect the actual canon of the regular one.

[Matt Murdock]

It's fine with me if people don't get a say. :up:

[Batman]

Good!

:cmad:

[Johnny Blaze]

If a What If... is done based on a previous season, the posters who played the characters during said season should get first dibs on reprising their roles.

For example, if there was a What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded, I should get first dibs on playing Mordru, Corp should get first dibs on Black Adam, SuperFerret should get first dibs to portray Superman, etc.

If a person doesn't want to reprise their roll, then they should pick the best app out of whoever posts an app for their character. Just like what happens in the OU if a character is suddenly dropped. Just this time it'd be the former player making the choice instead of the GMs.

[Batman]

See, the 'first dibs' aspect I fully agree on. I just think that it doesn't really matter who takes them up if the previous player doesn't want to.

[Matt Murdock]

If a What If... is done based on a previous season, the posters who played the characters during said season should get first dibs on reprising their roles.

For example, if there was a What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded, I should get first dibs on playing Mordru, Corp should get first dibs on Black Adam, SuperFerret should get first dibs to portray Superman, etc.

If a person doesn't want to reprise their roll, then they should pick the best app out of whoever posts an app for their character. Just like what happens in the OU if a character is suddenly dropped. Just this time it'd be the former player making the choice instead of the GMs.

I agree with most of what you're saying here, except the former player being the sole arbiter of the choice. I think they should have an impact, certainly, but if they're the sole decision maker, then playing favorites will be far too easy. We all know that MB would give Byrd one of his former characters any day of the week.

How else would he get the goats? :csad:

[Matt Murdock]

To be honest, if it's the What-If continuity, no, I don't think you should. Just like previous players rarely have a say of who get the character after they do, unless it's an underground trade. Depending on how long a character stays with a player, usually the character has had continuity made up between numerous different players, so it's no more their character than it is the game's.

Now, for the case of characters that have stayed with the player since the beginning of the game, I guess it mostly depends on how said player feels. I, personally, would have no issue with anyone else coming in to play Ultimate Batman for a What-If season, if I were not willing to do so myself. But someone like wiegeabo might have a problem with someone else strolling away from what he did with Sinestro in a What-If season of DC. But, the truth is... why should that player care in the first place? It's an alternate continuity. Nothing done in the What-If season would affect the actual canon of the regular one.

Yeah. Like you'd do that, you Bat-monger.

EDIT:

:cmad:

[Batman]

I agree with most of what you're saying here, except the former player being the sole arbiter of the choice. I think they should have an impact, certainly, but if they're the sole decision maker, then playing favorites will be far too easy. We all know that MB would give Byrd one of his former characters any day of the week.

How else would he get the goats? :csad:

You think I want my Batman or my Joker being touched by... by... southern folk?

[Johnny Blaze]

I agree with most of what you're saying here, except the former player being the sole arbiter of the choice. I think they should have an impact, certainly, but if they're the sole decision maker, then playing favorites will be far too easy. We all know that MB would give Byrd one of his former characters any day of the week.

How else would he get the goats? :csad:

So make it a panel decision between the WI? GMs and the former player. The app that gets the majority of the votes get the prize.

[Saved]

Not really a fan of this concept. Sorry.

[Byrd Man]

If a What If... is done based on a previous season, the posters who played the characters during said season should get first dibs on reprising their roles.

For example, if there was a What If...The First Dark Alliance Succeeded, I should get first dibs on playing Mordru, Corp should get first dibs on Black Adam, SuperFerret should get first dibs to portray Superman, etc.

If a person doesn't want to reprise their roll, then they should pick the best app out of whoever posts an app for their character. Just like what happens in the OU if a character is suddenly dropped. Just this time it'd be the former player making the choice instead of the GMs.

He has a good point.

Yeah. Like you'd do that, you Bat-monger.

Ahh, shut up you Daredevil hog.

[Johnny Blaze]

Not really a fan of this concept. Sorry.

Yeah, I don't really see myself being involved unless a character or former character of mine is involved.

Then it'll all depend on the twist. :up:

[Matt Murdock]

You think I want my Batman or my Joker being touched by... by... southern folk?

Not necessarily, but consider your options.

Ahh, shut up you Daredevil hog.
:cmad:

[Matt Murdock]

So make it a panel decision between the WI? GMs and the former player. The app that gets the majority of the votes get the prize.
That's what I meant by their input being considered. :up:

[Saved]

I just don't see the point. Basically, all I am getting from the first couple pages is that we'd spin off a season, making an event go a different way. To me, this isn't really interesting. Maybe three people want to relive an event, but I doubt you'd get a whole bunch who want to all play the same moment.

[Matt Murdock]

I just don't see the point. Basically, all I am getting from the first couple pages is that we'd spin off a season, making an event go a different way. To me, this isn't really interesting. Maybe three people want to relive an event, but I doubt you'd get a whole bunch who want to all play the same moment.
...If you twist it how is it the same moment?

[Byrd Man]

Just throw in the towel, SSF! This will never make it! :cmad:....:csad:

[Saved]

...If you twist it how is it the same moment?
Okay, slightly different for a new outcome. But, still. I don't see this as interesting, and I could see people being insulted in certain circumstances depending on the outcomes. People do arcs in the RPGs not only for fun and a good story, but sometimes to also prove a point or show a certain concept they wish to get across. To do a "what if" on it, and have main driving people played by different people than the first, the original concept would be skewed and people might get insulted.

Is it likely? Perhaps not. Is it a possible outcome? Yeah.

In addition to other reasons. I think we should focus on the current seasons in the 4 or 5 main RPGs we have now, instead of going back to alter a moment and play it for a short period of time that will not have any long term effects.

[Johnny Blaze]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/HypsterJB/Twist.jpg

What a twist!