Now that its said and done, what would you change?

[Cory]

I was thinking about a ton of things i would have changed about this movie, but only compared to the trailers really. For instance, the dialogue. in the trailers, it was almost guaranteed it was batman the joker was talking to during most of the voice overs etc. Obviously 'Evening Commissioner' wasnt, but quotes from the trailers like, "Does it depress you? Just how alone you really are..." is it just me, or would this have been better if he said that to batman? i also thought 'lets put a smile on that face' was to batman, but it worked out perfect the way that was.

then, 'and here...we......GO!' wow. this line was so great in the trailers, its actual scene didnt live up to it. i was expecting this line somewhere in the end of the second act to the beginning of the third. joker has escaped jail, and all the ****s about to hit the fan. thats what i was expecting out of it. saying that infront of say some goons that are thinking this ****er is nuts, 'and here we go'...BOOM some **** blows up lol

another thing i would change, the chase scene, shoulda lasted a bit longer and been a bit more intense. the only real highlight is the semi flipping, the batpod flip wasnt bad, but also wasnt THAT much.

the party crashing scene seemed like it was missing something. it was toooo brief of a confrontation....on second heath is just in the zone, then batman comes out of no where, throws 3-4 punches then jumps out the window. however, in all honesty, this scene was probably more realistic.

finally, id change maronis role. he gets maybe 5 minutes of screen time lol. he coulda been used so much more and better.

for the record. not one of these are complaints. i loved the movie 10/10 the way it is. probably my favorite movie of all time, and without a doubt my best theater experience. but about a billion dollars later, weve earned the right to nitpick and say what we would have done differently.

in short. my #1 thing i would change is the dialogue, not what was said, but to whom it was said.

[up2nogood316]

I was thinking about a ton of things i would have changed about this movie, but only compared to the trailers really. For instance, the dialogue. in the trailers, it was almost guaranteed it was batman the joker was talking to during most of the voice overs etc. Obviously 'Evening Commissioner' wasnt, but quotes from the trailers like, "Does it depress you? Just how alone you really are..." is it just me, or would this have been better if he said that to batman? i also thought 'lets put a smile on that face' was to batman, but it worked out perfect the way that was.

then, 'and here...we......GO!' wow. this line was so great in the trailers, its actual scene didnt live up to it. i was expecting this line somewhere in the end of the second act to the beginning of the third. joker has escaped jail, and all the ****s about to hit the fan. thats what i was expecting out of it. saying that infront of say some goons that are thinking this ****er is nuts, 'and here we go'...BOOM some **** blows up lol

another thing i would change, the chase scene, shoulda lasted a bit longer and been a bit more intense. the only real highlight is the semi flipping, the batpod flip wasnt bad, but also wasnt THAT much.

the party crashing scene seemed like it was missing something. it was toooo brief of a confrontation....on second heath is just in the zone, then batman comes out of no where, throws 3-4 punches then jumps out the window. however, in all honesty, this scene was probably more realistic.

finally, id change maronis role. he gets maybe 5 minutes of screen time lol. he coulda been used so much more and better.

for the record. not one of these are complaints. i loved the movie 10/10 the way it is. probably my favorite movie of all time, and without a doubt my best theater experience. but about a billion dollars later, weve earned the right to nitpick and say what we would have done differently.

in short. my #1 thing i would change is the dialogue, not what was said, but to whom it was said.


i agree with everything there, you pretty much summed it up. id like to add some bits:

the "here we..go" i thought would have been well suited before the helicopter being brought down, that could have been classic... rack em up, rack em up, rack em uppp!!!.............*turns off walkie talkie*....and here we..go!!

id have liked the score to have featured more, maybe with 'Like a dog chasing cars' being played through the chase sequence..

only other thing is the whole thing feels a bit rushed...id have been happier if it lastest 6 hours lol

[The Joker]

Get rid of the idiot SWAT guy that was with Gordon in the SWAT car chase sequence.

[The Jester]

I would completely get rid of the "Have a nice trip, see ya next fall" line

[Jonathan Crane]

ENTIRE finale. SWAT, hostages, dogs, sonar - no, thank you. I would like to see only Joker vs. Batman.

And I would love to see Joker blowing up both ferries (or them blowing up each other).

[mclay18]

Change the Zimmer/Howard score. A LOT of it was either temp-tracked from or rearranged from Batman Begins... I was disappointed that there wasn't enough new music. BB's score was lacking too, although it was fresher and had a bigger sound to it.

If she was alive, Warner Bros. should've "suggested" Nolan to use Shirley Walker to score TDK (and BB) and rework her Batman: Mask of the Phantasm theme into something more electronic to fit with the contemporary Batman. If anyone else has heard Walker's scores for the Final Destination movies, those kinds of synths augmenting the orchestra.

[StylishHokie21]

Get rid of the idiot SWAT guy that was with Gordon in the SWAT car chase sequence.

Agreed. That was one of the things that bugged me the most. I also wanted a different finale. Batman and Joker's final confrontation didn't do it for me. I wanted to see more Joker after he was arrested again.

[Byron Long]

I wouldn't change anything.

[Adam West]

I'd change all the whiney fanboys whining about the damn movie.

It was fine the way it was.

I seriously doubt ANY of you could do better.

[Mr. Earle]

I would completely get rid of the "Have a nice trip, see ya next fall" line
Who said that to whom? Dont remember it!
Change the Zimmer/Howard score. A LOT of it was either temp-tracked from or rearranged from Batman Begins... I was disappointed that there wasn't enough new music. BB's score was lacking too, although it was fresher and had a bigger sound to it.

If she was alive, Warner Bros. should've "suggested" Nolan to use Shirley Walker to score TDK (and BB) and rework her Batman: Mask of the Phantasm theme into something more electronic to fit with the contemporary Batman. If anyone else has heard Walker's scores for the Final Destination movies, those kinds of synths augmenting the orchestra.
Its obvious that Nolan wanted to have his own music, not use someone else's. So they wouldnt have done that in any case.
I liked the score just fine! I liked the Begins one and i expected it to reappear here with a few changes as it did. I especially love "I am not a hero" and "why so serious" which always gave us goosebumps everytime the joker was about to do his thang!

Having talked over this with many batman fans, i can tell you that many people love the new score and hear it in their minds everytime someone mentions batman.

[Mr. Earle]

Oh, i think that this thread is almost the same as "biggest disappointment". We all did our whining there for the biggest to the smallest disappointment. So why do it all over again here? Its obvious that we would change the things that disappointed us. Right?

[gwynplaine]

I would have made the roles of the kids who shoot cars with their fingers bigger, (and set them up as future robin and nightwing.):woot::cwink:.

[Bat-Mite]

Get rid of the idiot SWAT guy that was with Gordon in the SWAT car chase sequence.This. For me, that guy was the worst part of the whole movie. He even had me cringing on my first viewing of it.

[Infinity9999x]

The only thing I would change would be Two-Face. I'd want the movie to end with Batman capturing the Joker (have the same exchange with him hanging upside down ect.) but instead of Bats finding Gordon confronting Harvey, have Bats meet with Gordon outside the building. They both realize that Harvey wasn't with the hostages, speculating on what happened to Harvey.

Then have it end with him walking in on Wertz and the
"I thought you were dead"
pan to Harvey's face as and him saying "Half" then cut to black after the gunshot. (I also wouldn't have shown his face in Gordon scene in the hospital, so it was a big surprise at the end).

That way we could set up Two-Face as the main baddie of the next film, and delve deeper into how his psyche is fragmented, and show more of the dual between the Dent side and Two-face side.

Not only that, but it could be interesting to show Batman researching Dent and learning about his past with his abusive father and all his experiences witch set him up to become Two-Face.

[frodawgg]

why all the hate on Nicky Katt? actually, his one-liners did suck. why, Nicky, why?

[batman11]

The only thing I would change would be Two-Face. I'd want the movie to end with Batman capturing the Joker (have the same exchange with him hanging upside down ect.) but instead of Bats finding Gordon confronting Harvey, have Bats meet with Gordon outside the building. They both realize that Harvey wasn't with the hostages, speculating on what happened to Harvey.

Then have it end with him walking in on Wertz and the
"I thought you were dead"
pan to Harvey's face as and him saying "Half" then cut to black after the gunshot. (I also wouldn't have shown his face in Gordon scene in the hospital, so it was a big surprise at the end).

That way we could set up Two-Face as the main baddie of the next film, and delve deeper into how his psyche is fragmented, and show more of the dual between the Dent side and Two-face side.

Not only that, but it could be interesting to show Batman researching Dent and learning about his past with his abusive father and all his experiences witch set him up to become Two-Face.

Not only singling you out in particular, but why does it seem a lot of people wanted the movie to end on the bar scene cliffhanger? What does that accomplish other than setting up the sequel using a cheap trick (like POTC 2 for example)? There is no real resolution for Dent, no proper conclusion for Bats, and the movie doesn't really have an ending (more like the story just being put on pause until the next one). I'll still, for the life of me, never understand the desire for a cliffhanger ending.

Nothing against you personally though bro. :)

[Infinity9999x]

Not only singling you out in particular, but why does it seem a lot of people wanted the movie to end on the bar scene cliffhanger? What does that accomplish other than setting up the sequel using a cheap trick (like POTC 2 for example)? There is no real resolution for Dent, no proper conclusion for Bats, and the movie doesn't really have an ending (more like the story just being put on pause until the next one). I'll still, for the life of me, never understand the desire for a cliffhanger ending.

Nothing against you personally though bro. :)

None taken.

And really, the reason I want a cliffhanger ending is because I think Dent's story was rushed. They did a great job of setting him up, but we only saw maybe 15mins of two-face total. I think Two-Face's character is interesting enough, and could be used in a wider way. As I said in my above post, I think more could have been done with him.

I don't think it sets up a sequel for a cheap trick at all. It only would have set up the audience to know that Two-Face would be a villain in the next story.

And really, Batman would have about the same amount of resolution he had in this movie. You could still have the city hate him, and this would be only furthered by the fact that now Dent is a known criminal. The city would blame this on Batman further, for not coming forward and giving himself up before this happened to Harvey. The third movie would complete the arc, with Batman saving Gotham from Two-Face (and possibly the Riddler) and the city accepting him.

This movie really didn't have a set ending either. Dent is dead, Bats goes off on the run, while Joker is in prison. We still don't know what's going to happen to Batman, or if the city will ever accept him or not.

With my ending, you have basically the same ending, only Batman's not on the run from the cops.

Like I said, I don't think it's a cheap shock to have Harvey revealed to be Two-Face at the end, because it's not like anybody thought he was dead before the bar appearance. It only sets him up for a bigger role in the next movie.

And sometimes some of the best movies end in cliffhangers. Like a little film I like to call Empire Strikes Back.

[mongoose-mania]

Get rid of the idiot SWAT guy that was with Gordon in the SWAT car chase sequence.
This and...

I would completely get rid of the "Have a nice trip, see ya next fall" line
This. They just didn't need to be there.

[batman11]

None taken.

And really, the reason I want a cliffhanger ending is because I think Dent's story was rushed. They did a great job of setting him up, but we only saw maybe 15mins of two-face total. I think Two-Face's character is interesting enough, and could be used in a wider way. As I said in my above post, I think more could have been done with him.

I don't think it sets up a sequel for a cheap trick at all. It only would have set up the audience to know that Two-Face would be a villain in the next story.

And really, Batman would have about the same amount of resolution he had in this movie. You could still have the city hate him, and this would be only furthered by the fact that now Dent is a known criminal. The city would blame this on Batman further, for not coming forward and giving himself up before this happened to Harvey. The third movie would complete the arc, with Batman saving Gotham from Two-Face (and possibly the Riddler) and the city accepting him.

This movie really didn't have a set ending either. Dent is dead, Bats goes off on the run, while Joker is in prison. We still don't know what's going to happen to Batman, or if the city will ever accept him or not.

With my ending, you have basically the same ending, only Batman's not on the run from the cops.

Like I said, I don't think it's a cheap shock to have Harvey revealed to be Two-Face at the end, because it's not like anybody thought he was dead before the bar appearance. It only sets him up for a bigger role in the next movie.

And sometimes some of the best movies end in cliffhangers. Like a little film I like to call Empire Strikes Back.

I can see your point about wanting more Two-Face, but we could have had the exact same situation in the film play out, just without Two-Face dying. He gets stopped, locked up, Bats takes the fall, etc. Like a lot of people believed on these boards.

I guess, with regards to the "cheap trick" mentality, to each his own. As a general movie goer and batfan, I'd personally find it to be a terrible ending, because the sole purpose of it would be to set up a sequel, and I just don't like that in TDK's case. With the amount time spent on Dent in the film, highlighting his character and his arc, he deserved to have a proper resolution than to have it be left open for conclusion in another 3 years.

Once again, in my opinion, I don't feel Batman's resolution would have been as strong as it was without a final confrontation with Dent. The whole movie was leading up to it. From the very moment they met, Bruce saw Dent as his savior, Gotham's savior. The finale, in which Bruce knew that Dent could no longer fulfill his hopes was the pinnacle of the tragedy, and I think it would lose that effect if it was dragged over two movies. But, as always, this is just my opinion.

As for you comment about how the film didn't really have a set ending, I'd have to disagree, and at least say that it's definitely more conclusive than a cliffhanger. A) It ends with Batman, as all these films should B) Harvey Dent, the back bone of the film, the tragic hero, follows the Shakespearean tragic plot line ending with his death, which leads to C) everything in the film is concluded - Dent's tragic hero plot, the Joker's anarchy plot, Batman's build up to status of Dark Knight. The only cliffhanger left is that he is now a wanted man. I'd much rather the sequel explore Batman's redemption and growth to the status of accepted, legendary Gotham protector, than have a cliffhanger ending, which means we need a sequel to resolve some of TDK's main plots.

But as a I said, this is all a matter of opinion, and I got nothing personal against you bro. ;)

PS: At least Empire Strikes Back didn't end with "Luke, I am your father." Cut to black. The cliffhanger was there, but at least the film had something afterward. ;)

[The Jester]

Who said that to whom? Dont remember it!
.

Some random cop says it after gordon arrests Maroni and all of those mobsters in that restaurant place.

[Zig-Zag Man]

You guys are complaining about how audio was cut over a trailer to make things seem action packed to draw the public into the movie?

Uhhh

[Zig-Zag Man]

The only issues I had ... and I consider this by far the best comic book movie, and one of the best films of all-time.

Two-Face was far too cartoonish in the looks department for my taste. I was looking for something much more subtle, believable, and engaging. Didn't go with the visuals of the rest of the film, or even from Batman Begins in context.

Batman's lenses looked stupid and ridiculous, even more so in the context of this movie. Plus, there was no point. If Lucious was relaying him the info, why would he need them anyway? Or vice a versa, if he had them, why would he need Lucious? And then if he wasn't wearing them, the glitch wouldn't have allowed Joker to get a one up on him in the Pruitt building.

I thought the Hong Kong plot point kind of shortly derailed the stronger focus of the movie. That being the war in Gotham City.

Cool sequences, and shows Batman "has no limits" ... but it kind of distracts you given the rest of the movie.

[Mr. Earle]

The only thing I would change would be Two-Face. I'd want the movie to end with Batman capturing the Joker (have the same exchange with him hanging upside down ect.) but instead of Bats finding Gordon confronting Harvey, have Bats meet with Gordon outside the building. They both realize that Harvey wasn't with the hostages, speculating on what happened to Harvey.

Then have it end with him walking in on Wertz and the
"I thought you were dead"
pan to Harvey's face as and him saying "Half" then cut to black after the gunshot. (I also wouldn't have shown his face in Gordon scene in the hospital, so it was a big surprise at the end).

That way we could set up Two-Face as the main baddie of the next film, and delve deeper into how his psyche is fragmented, and show more of the dual between the Dent side and Two-face side.

Not only that, but it could be interesting to show Batman researching Dent and learning about his past with his abusive father and all his experiences witch set him up to become Two-Face.
Rachel's Death set him up to become Two-Face. He didnt have any other problems than that. His main problem was that he was jealous of batman being able to break the law and do the right thing. He wanted (and came close) to be able to do that when Rachel was abducted and he lost his self restraint. Rachel's death threw him over the edge and set him out seeking "justice" in the wrong way.

Also, you do realise that if the movie ended the way you describe we wouldnt have had the "dark knight ending". Which was the best part of the movie. The part that explains who batman really is and why we all love him.

[Mr. Earle]

None taken.

And really, the reason I want a cliffhanger ending is because I think Dent's story was rushed. They did a great job of setting him up, but we only saw maybe 15mins of two-face total. I think Two-Face's character is interesting enough, and could be used in a wider way. As I said in my above post, I think more could have been done with him.

I don't think it sets up a sequel for a cheap trick at all. It only would have set up the audience to know that Two-Face would be a villain in the next story.

And really, Batman would have about the same amount of resolution he had in this movie. You could still have the city hate him, and this would be only furthered by the fact that now Dent is a known criminal. The city would blame this on Batman further, for not coming forward and giving himself up before this happened to Harvey. The third movie would complete the arc, with Batman saving Gotham from Two-Face (and possibly the Riddler) and the city accepting him.

This movie really didn't have a set ending either. Dent is dead, Bats goes off on the run, while Joker is in prison. We still don't know what's going to happen to Batman, or if the city will ever accept him or not.

With my ending, you have basically the same ending, only Batman's not on the run from the cops.

Like I said, I don't think it's a cheap shock to have Harvey revealed to be Two-Face at the end, because it's not like anybody thought he was dead before the bar appearance. It only sets him up for a bigger role in the next movie.

And sometimes some of the best movies end in cliffhangers. Like a little film I like to call Empire Strikes Back.
Dent wasnt out to destroy Gotham or become a mob boss like his comic counterpart. He was out to seek "justice" for Rachel. Perhaps he could serve justice to everyone with his chance system, but would that be interesting?
The point is made. We know how and why he lost it, we know how he sees justice now, what's the point of watching a movie that focuses on that again?
Sure Two-Face is batman's second or third villain but Nolan gave him a short, though full handling. I think that he has already left his mark and made his point.

I think its time we moved on, since Dent's arc dominated TDK, so he would just be a freak killing people in the next movie. There wouldnt be anywhere else to take him as a character.

[Mr. Earle]

Some random cop says it after gordon arrests Maroni and all of those mobsters in that restaurant place.
Uh...was that so irritating? Oh come on! I actually found it quite normal.

You guys dont want anything other than expository dialogue right? No chit chat. No real life chatter. Come on, these things fill the gaps in the movie. You cant have only the main characters talking.

[Mr. Earle]

The only issues I had ... and I consider this by far the best comic book movie, and one of the best films of all-time.

Two-Face was far too cartoonish in the looks department for my taste. I was looking for something much more subtle, believable, and engaging. Didn't go with the visuals of the rest of the film, or even from Batman Begins in context.

Batman's lenses looked stupid and ridiculous, even more so in the context of this movie. Plus, there was no point. If Lucious was relaying him the info, why would he need them anyway? Or vice a versa, if he had them, why would he need Lucious? And then if he wasn't wearing them, the glitch wouldn't have allowed Joker to get a one up on him in the Pruitt building.

I thought the Hong Kong plot point kind of shortly derailed the stronger focus of the movie. That being the war in Gotham City.

Cool sequences, and shows Batman "has no limits" ... but it kind of distracts you given the rest of the movie.1) Batsonar: Nolan wanted batman to get hit and thats where it comes down to: PLOT. If batman didnt have that glitch, the joker would have been arrested instantly. The end. As for Fox, well he did monitor things while batman was busy fighting, but on the other hand, batman needed to have that visual himself, because you cant have fox giving him directions all the time "two bad guys on your 6 o'clock". Plus, am i the only one that found it to be a damn cool gadget?

2) Hong Kong: I found it refreshing. On a movie so packed with action and grittiness, i found HK to be a breath of fresh cool air and more than that it did help Nolan establish Gotham as a city in a world, and not a city in a fantasy realm or a matchbox (*cough burton).

[Infinity9999x]

Dent wasnt out to destroy Gotham or become a mob boss like his comic counterpart. He was out to seek "justice" for Rachel. Perhaps he could serve justice to everyone with his chance system, but would that be interesting?
The point is made. We know how and why he lost it, we know how he sees justice now, what's the point of watching a movie that focuses on that again?
Sure Two-Face is batman's second or third villain but Nolan gave him a short, though full handling. I think that he has already left his mark and made his point.

And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.

And I have to completley disagree with you, Nolan did not give Two-Face a full handling. Two-Face is a very unique character in that he's literally two people within one body. Nolan could have explored that more by saving him for the next movie. Gone deeper into how the Two-Face and Dent personality interact with one another. Not only that, he could have expanded on Two-Face's obsession with duality and justice. You could easily pull a whole plot about how this could effect Gotham. I'll put it in spoiler tags to shorten my post so I don't take up half a page.

What I would have done (and this is just an idea I just thought up) would be to show how deeply Harvey becomes obsessed with justice and the duality of things. After the death of Rachel, and realizing how even Gordon's unit was extremely corrupted, Harvey would have viewed the entire city as letting him down. Everything he believed in, his sense of justice, was shattered in the moment that Rachel was killed.

Harvey wants revenge on all the things that betray him, so his Two-Face side sets out to gain control of the mob, to wage war on the justice system which he once tried to champion, but it ultimately failed him. On the other hand, the Dent personality goes out and finds information on the next DA who is running to take Harvey's place. After finding some dirt on him, he blackmails the DA, and in addition to that, gains control of some of the other main lawyers and judges in the justice system through threats and blackmail, effectively gaining control of the court system.

He then makes both sides go at eachother in a suicide battle, making the mob pull aggressive attacks and robberies, while at the same time having the laywers and judges he has under his control begin to order out extreme meausers to capture the members of the mob. Basically, he puts both sides in a situation where they'll destroy eachother. He sets up some of his main mob boys to get killed and captured by the police, while at the same time carring out hits against judges and lawyers, putting both sides into a frenzy.

In other words, he effictively puts Gotham into an all out war between the Law and Order and the mob, which would be perfect revenge for two-face, because he's equally punishing both sides responsible for Rachel's death and his condition.

At the same time, he'd use his power to try and dirty Gordon's name and make Batman an outlaw, getting his revenge on both of them.

Throughout all of this, I would also make good use of Two-Face's psyche, demonstrating how messed up he really is. I'd expand his character by having Bats investigate Dent's past, discovering the traumatic events that happened in his life and his abusive childhood, which set him up for his fall, even before Rachel.

And I don't really see you're point when you say "why do we need to see this all again in the next movie?"

The whole point is we wouldn't this thread is about changes I would have made, and as I said already, I would have ended the movie with Two-Face shooting Weurtz. The audience wouldn't be introduced to his view of justice.


I think its time we moved on, since Dent's arc dominated TDK, so he would just be a freak killing people in the next movie. There wouldnt be anywhere else to take him as a character.

If you read what I typed up for a spoiler, I think you'll see I think there's much we could do with the character. And Yes, Dent's arc dominated TDK, but Two-Face was barely in it. You have to realize that Dent and Two-Face are two completely different characters.

And the Dark Knight ending could still be easily established. You could re-work Gordon's speach or introduce it in another way. The Dark Knight ending was just thrown in in the last five minutes of the movie.

[hatebox]

This has basically turned into the 'disappointment thread'.

[Anita18]

Its obvious that Nolan wanted to have his own music, not use someone else's. So they wouldnt have done that in any case.
I liked the score just fine! I liked the Begins one and i expected it to reappear here with a few changes as it did. I especially love "I am not a hero" and "why so serious" which always gave us goosebumps everytime the joker was about to do his thang!
TDK's score really isn't all that much to write about in terms of melody, but in terms of working in the film, I thought it was perfect. Whenever Joker appeared, there was that grating electronic buzzing note that just brought tension by virtue of it being there. And the low bass beats gave weight to the proper moments in the film.

And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.
That depends on your view of the character. The most compelling Batman story for me was The Long Halloween, when you see just how Dent turns. He feels that the system of law that he had been working in has betrayed him, so he throws all that away and starts to implement his own brand of justice, as Two-Face. That's the version of Two-Face Nolan has in TDK. Had he lived, I expect that he would have gone after criminals like Batman did, except using lethal force at times.

I don't feel that there has to be two completely different personalities fighting within Dent's body to make the character compelling. Dark Victory wasn't nearly as good a story for me.

And from what we've seen, Nolan's Dent was not abused as a child. The coin that he uses is his "father's lucky coin," implying that he had a good relationship with his dad. Why would he carry it around and jokingly use it if it was a marker of a horrible childhood?

And the Dark Knight ending could still be easily established. You could re-work Gordon's speach or introduce it in another way. The Dark Knight ending was just thrown in in the last five minutes of the movie.
It wouldn't have had the same impact, I don't think. And they do hint at this conclusion throughout the film. Harvey sacrifices his own reputation when he turns himself in as Batman. Alfred acknowledges this act as "being more than a hero." At the end of the film, Batman does the same. And then the circle is completed, etc etc.

Watching TDK again last night, I was reminded that they movie could have ended when they caught Joker after the Slaughter truck chase. Then Joker's trial could have started off the next movie and Harvey gets scarred then, and so on. But it would have been the formulaic "yaay they caught the bad guys and now everything's fine and dandy!" ending, and it wouldn't have finished the overall arc of the film.





I actually wish that Nolan could have the chance to go back and rework BB's story so it could be on par with TDK, because it got a bit formulaic with the final fight with Ra's. And have Maggie Gyllenhaal film Katie's scenes instead. :woot:

[Infinity9999x]

That depends on your view of the character. The most compelling Batman story for me was The Long Halloween, when you see just how Dent turns. He feels that the system of law that he had been working in has betrayed him, so he throws all that away and starts to implement his own brand of justice, as Two-Face. That's the version of Two-Face Nolan has in TDK. Had he lived, I expect that he would have gone after criminals like Batman did, except using lethal force at times.

I don't feel that there has to be two completely different personalities fighting within Dent's body to make the character compelling. Dark Victory wasn't nearly as good a story for me.
I suppose we just have different views of the character. However, in TLHW, we see that Dent does have a different personality. He speaks differently when Two-Face is in control, and we see how both sides of him work differently. Two-Face ruthlessly murders those he sees as responsible for his predicament, Dent on the other hand, turns himself in to be handled by a court of law.

And from what we've seen, Nolan's Dent was not abused as a child. The coin that he uses is his "father's lucky coin," implying that he had a good relationship with his dad. Why would he carry it around and jokingly use it if it was a marker of a horrible childhood? The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.


It wouldn't have had the same impact, I don't think. And they do hint at this conclusion throughout the film. Harvey sacrifices his own reputation when he turns himself in as Batman. Alfred acknowledges this act as "being more than a hero." At the end of the film, Batman does the same. And then the circle is completed, etc etc.

Watching TDK again last night, I was reminded that they movie could have ended when they caught Joker after the Slaughter truck chase. Then Joker's trial could have started off the next movie and Harvey gets scarred then, and so on. But it would have been the formulaic "yaay they caught the bad guys and now everything's fine and dandy!" ending, and it wouldn't have finished the overall arc of the film.

If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.

And if you look at my original post, I never said I wanted the Joker to scar Dent. I said the only thing I'd change was that the movie would end with Dent's first appearance shooting Weurtz. You would still have the same ending with the Joker, and Joker dropping the ominious hint about Dent.

But instead of having Dent's character be wrapped up in the last 15mins of the film, it would carry on to the next film. It still carries the same message that the original ending had, in fact, it's a bit more bleak, because Batman and Gordon don't have the chance to cover up what Dent will do and help save Gotham's spirit.

[Anita18]

The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.
Possible, but it wouldn't really mesh with the Harvey that appeared in TDK. It would almost be a retcon.

If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.
Not the same. Batman must decide on his own to take the fall. That's the conclusion of his arc, and what makes the ending so powerful. Gordon even refuses to go along at first, but Batman is adamant that it must be done.

And if you look at my original post, I never said I wanted the Joker to scar Dent. I said the only thing I'd change was that the movie would end with Dent's first appearance shooting Weurtz. You would still have the same ending with the Joker, and Joker dropping the ominious hint about Dent.
My observation about the possibility of the film ending earlier than it did wasn't as much as a response to your post, as it was my own rambling. :yay:

[Ziggyman]

I wouldn't change a thang!:dry:

[metalhead_dave]

I'd tweak the cowl and have Bale tone down the Batvoice a bit and tone up his voice as private Bruce Wayne.

Other than that, nothing bothers me and it's an amazing movie.

[Zig-Zag Man]

1) Batsonar: Nolan wanted batman to get hit and thats where it comes down to: PLOT. If batman didnt have that glitch, the joker would have been arrested instantly. The end. As for Fox, well he did monitor things while batman was busy fighting, but on the other hand, batman needed to have that visual himself, because you cant have fox giving him directions all the time "two bad guys on your 6 o'clock".
But he was giving him the directions, the ENTIRE time. You could have easily have found a way to have Joker gain an advtanage on Batman with the use of sonar lenses. It's a great concept in theory, and if it was applied in a more believable manner ... it could've been perfect. But it look terrible in the context of the film. It was way too "techy" even for Batman. Or at least too sci-fi tech looking. If it was more grounded, I would've been all over it. The desing of the lenses, and they way they just appear ... it was terribly out of place. I mean he looked half real, half cartoon when this huge blazing white lenses just pop out of no where from the cowl. It was totally stupid.

Plus, am i the only one that found it to be a damn cool gadget?
It's cool. But not the way it was designed and used in the movie.

2) Hong Kong: I found it refreshing.
I did too ... that's not what's in question


On a movie so packed with action and grittiness, i found HK to be a breath of fresh cool air
It was cool, but it didn't fit with the narrative of the story. Of all the professional reviews of the film, this is one of the only questionably bad things about the script. It derails the focus and strongest points of the film. Briefly, but it does derail it. The movie is building so strong before it with the Joker, Batman / Dent / Gordon's destruction of the remaining criminal elements of Gotham. It's a piece of ADD in the narrative of a very strong script otherwise.

and more than that it did help Nolan establish Gotham as a city in a world, and not a city in a fantasy realm or a matchbox (*cough burton).
We already got that with Batman Begins. And we didn't actually need to see Hong Kong in order to understand this ... Gotham in Nolan's universe is clearly a modern American city. Not one built to look like a weird Gothic twist to a German or old European city. Lau being mentioned as being from Hong Kong was enough. Besides, Gotham being a modern city landscape, visually it wasn't that different from Hong Kong anyway.

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.

[Infinity9999x]

Possible, but it wouldn't really mesh with the Harvey that appeared in TDK. It would almost be a retcon.
That's why I'd make it a plot point of having Bat's look into Harvey's past in the third movie, and discovering all the things that happened to him. It would make him more tragic to see all the horrific things that happened to him.

Not the same. Batman must decide on his own to take the fall. That's the conclusion of his arc, and what makes the ending so powerful. Gordon even refuses to go along at first, but Batman is adamant that it must be done. I think you could have it have the same impact.

Gordon and Bats are discussing the aftermath, then Gorden gets beeped. He reads his pager and realizes that he's going to have to bring Batman in. He looks to Batman.
"They're calling for your arrest."
Batman: "They always are."
Gordon: "No, you don't understand. The Mayor's just ordered an extensive warrant, I'm going to have to come after you. The city's devastated, and with Dent missing, the people want someone to answer for everything. They want blood."
Batman looks off for a moment, then turns back to Gordon.
Batman: "I guess we'll have to find another way of contacting eachother from now on, I doubt they'll let you keep that light."
Gordon looks at Batman confused...
Gordon: "But...I'm going to have to hunt you..."
Batman: "Then hunt me, set the dogs on me, do whatever you have to. I'm not leaving this city. It needs me."

The whole movie dealt with Bruce's desire to hang up his mantle of Batman. At the end of the movie Bruce realizes he can't hang up the mantle of Batman, and that Batman has to be more then a hero, sometimes he has to be viewed as a villain to the public.

This ending would have the same message. Bruce has accepted his mantle, he will never give it up, and he's willing to be a chased outlaw to continue his cause.




My observation about the possibility of the film ending earlier than it did wasn't as much as a response to your post, as it was my own rambling. :yay: Ahh, ok then. :)

[Mr. Earle]

And have Maggie Gyllenhaal film Katie's scenes instead. :woot:
Maggie looks her age, while Katie doesnt. I dont think she could have pulled off the teenager part of the role. And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.
Just like Nolan tweaked the Joker a bit, he did the same with Two-Face. I didnt say that Nolan's Two-Face is only out for revenge. I said that he is serving his "justice" to those that are responsible for him and Rachel. After that i dont think that he would go on killing people or become a mob boss. I think that he would probably kill himself as he wouldnt want to live after that psychological trauma (indeed in the film he doesnt want to escape. He just wants to deal justice and then die or get arrested). Nolan's Two-Face isnt a wacko obsessed with the number 2. He doesnt have 2 girlfriends who make him two meals. He doesnt choose his hideout on the second floor of 2, 2nd Street. He is merely a man pushed over the edge. The only aspect of the number two in this version is the 50-50 chance that his victims have when he tosses the coin. And his face of course.

I think that this version is a lot more tragic because it was so short lived and because Two-Face doesnt become a mob boss who -like the joker- spends half of his time killing people and half in Arkham. I would have liked to see the dual personality Two-face, but Nolan obviously made his Two-face a new person altogether, not one torn by two personalities.

But on the other hand i wouldnt want him to have that obsession with number two. Its just ridiculous sometimes.

[Anita18]

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.
It still plays a role in the plot, because we get to see what Batman is capable of. And the Hong Kong mission was the only truly successful thing he pulled off during the entire film. :oldrazz: The rest of the film, he can only try to minimize the collateral damage in Joker's wake.

I think you could have it have the same impact.

Gordon and Bats are discussing the aftermath, then Gorden gets beeped. He reads his pager and realizes that he's going to have to bring Batman in. He looks to Batman.
"They're calling for your arrest."
Batman: "They always are."
Gordon: "No, you don't understand. The Mayor's just ordered an extensive warrant, I'm going to have to come after you. The city's devastated, and with Dent missing, the people want someone to answer for everything. They want blood."
Batman looks off for a moment, then turns back to Gordon.
Batman: "I guess we'll have to find another way of contacting eachother from now on, I doubt they'll let you keep that light."
Gordon looks at Batman confused...
Gordon: "But...I'm going to have to hunt you..."
Batman: "Then hunt me, set the dogs on me, do whatever you have to. I'm not leaving this city. It needs me."

The whole movie dealt with Bruce's desire to hang up his mantle of Batman. At the end of the movie Bruce realizes he can't hang up the mantle of Batman, and that Batman has to be more then a hero, sometimes he has to be viewed as a villain to the public.

This ending would have the same message. Bruce has accepted his mantle, he will never give it up, and he's willing to be a chased outlaw to continue his cause.
It does have the same message, but Batman's character wouldn't be as compelling. In your version, he's just accepting the fate that other people have dealt him. In TDK, he makes the decision himself. He gets the ball rolling. He's just not taking it sitting down.

[Mr. Earle]

The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.
Or that he doesnt have the origin you want him to and that you are seeing what you want to see. Anyone who didnt know 2face before TDK will testify that there is no such thing implied in the movie. Therefore, Dent didnt have Jigsaw as his father. He was always on the verge of breaking the law trying to enforce it, and after the death of rachel he finally loses his faith in the justice system. He now believes that its all down to luck. I find it better than the "durr my father hit me, now i cant control my rage and i throw da coins in the air".
If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.Its not about Batman running from the cops. Its about him taking the blame for multiple murders he did not commit, only because that way he would serve Gotham. That was the point of the movie. Not Dent's father or his double personality. You are dismissing the best part of the film only because you want to see BTAS or the Long Halloween in a live action film. Just go watch BTAS already.

Also, about the film's ending, people consider the Two-face abduction part as an afterthough only because the joker is the main villain and ooooh canon says that the film must end with the good guy catching the main bad guy. Also, the set of the abduction didnt help either. It was rather bland, while people expected something spectacular to end the film.

[Mr. Earle]

But he was giving him the directions, the ENTIRE time. You could have easily have found a way to have Joker gain an advtanage on Batman with the use of sonar lenses. It's a great concept in theory, and if it was applied in a more believable manner ... it could've been perfect. But it look terrible in the context of the film. It was way too "techy" even for Batman. Or at least too sci-fi tech looking. If it was more grounded, I would've been all over it. The desing of the lenses, and they way they just appear ... it was terribly out of place. I mean he looked half real, half cartoon when this huge blazing white lenses just pop out of no where from the cowl. It was totally stupid.
You obviously havent read any comics. You should see the tech batman uses there! You'd be amazed!

Now, to me, it looked like sonar. Special lenses for batman to see better than his opponents. The lenses appeared somewhat like head up display or holograms in front of his eyes which i liked as well. To each his own i guess.

We already got that with Batman Begins. And we didn't actually need to see Hong Kong in order to understand this ... Gotham in Nolan's universe is clearly a modern American city. Not one built to look like a weird Gothic twist to a German or old European city. Lau being mentioned as being from Hong Kong was enough. Besides, Gotham being a modern city landscape, visually it wasn't that different from Hong Kong anyway.

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.You got a point there. On the other hand, all this happened at the beginning of the film where **** hadnt hit the fan yet.
And no, i wouldnt replace the skyhook with the joker. I think we got enough of him. Burton already made that mistake.

[Zig-Zag Man]

It still plays a role in the plot
Yes, it plays a role in the plot. That's why it was written in ... but the focus of the movie is derailed.

Derrr, are you getting this? This isn't the first time this criticism has been raised.

The pros saw it too.

[TheDarkKnight08]

I would've added scene with Bruce dealing with his parents. His motivations from BB seemes non-existant here. Still loved Batman's arc, but would've loved to have seen that.


Other than that, nothing else.:brucebat:

[Zig-Zag Man]

You obviously havent read any comics. You should see the tech batman uses there! You'd be amazed!
How do you get that I've never read a comic based off any of that? LOL

And this isn't a comic. It's a movie. And a take on the character much more grounded and gritty then the one seen on the comic page. It didn't flow even with the rest of the technology seen in the film that felt real. It was cartoonish.

Burton already made that mistake.
We def. got enough Joker to keep him interesting, threatning, and mysterious at all times ... But I def. think something better could've been done then going to Hong Kong.

It felt really awkward to me for some reason.

Gotham exists in a real expansive world. But seeing Batman operating outside of Gotham felt abit ... IDK ... different.

It's like those stupid comic scenes from the 70's era where you'd see Batman in costume with a parka on in the snow outside of Gotham.

Keep the urban legend of Batman in Gotham.

IDK, I liked the scene ... but it still felt awkward to me for some reason.

[Zig-Zag Man]

I would've added scene with Bruce dealing with his parents. His motivations from BB seemes non-existant here. Still loved Batman's arc, but would've loved to have seen that.

We didn't need that ... the loss of his parents as innocents is reflected in the loss of Rachel.

Even the dialogue that follows between Bruce and Alfred, while Bruce is crying and mourning the loss is the exact same dialogue almost beat for beat that he had with Bruce after his parents death in BEGINS.

Great touch, and a subtle way to connect the two films even more.

[TheDarkKnight08]

We didn't need that ... the loss of his parents as innocents is reflected in the loss of Rachel.

Even the dialogue that follows between Bruce and Alfred, while Bruce is crying and mourning the loss is the exact same dialogue almost beat for beat that he had with Bruce after his parents death in BEGINS.

Great touch, and a subtle way to connect the two films even more.

I know, but at least a mention would've satisfied me. :brucebat:

[Mr. Earle]

That's why I'd make it a plot point of having Bat's look into Harvey's past in the third movie, and discovering all the things that happened to him. It would make him more tragic to see all the horrific things that happened to him.
You said it earlier yourself. The backbone of TDK was Dent. The movie focused on him to make us sympathise with him, to show us who he is and why he does why he does. That way his change can be justified. If Nolan's Two-face owed his transformation to his abusive father, you would have seen it in the movie.

[Zig-Zag Man]

I know, but at least a mention would've satisfied me. :brucebat:
But why?

It has no bearing on the events in the movie.

Why do we need Bruce angsty fully seen mourning or brooding his parents, like a whiny teen?

Too much is happening. He doesn't have time for that.

Bruce actually felt like a grown man in this film. He had alot on his plate.

[Zig-Zag Man]

Two Face the character in TDK, apart from his fantastical look, was a much more solid, complex, and interesting character than the one in the comics. BY FAR.

[Mr. Earle]

How do you get that I've never read a comic based off any of that? LOL

And this isn't a comic. It's a movie. And a take on the character much more grounded and gritty then the one seen on the comic page. It didn't flow even with the rest of the technology seen in the film that felt real. It was cartoonish.
Well sorry about that, i dont know how many comics you ve read, but batman sure does crazy things there. Now, as for the sonar, i dont know how a sonar can appear to be more realistic. You probably want it scrapped altogether.

And please dont tell me that its cartoonish, because so is the memory cloth, so is the batmobile and so is the batpod.
We def. got enough Joker to keep him interesting, threatning, and mysterious at all times ... But I def. think something better could've been done then going to Hong Kong.

It felt really awkward to me for some reason.

Gotham exists in a real expansive world. But seeing Batman operating outside of Gotham felt abit ... IDK ... different.

It's like those stupid comic scenes from the 70's era where you'd see Batman in costume with a parka on in the snow outside of Gotham.

Keep the urban legend of Batman in Gotham.

IDK, I liked the scene ... but it still felt awkward to me for some reason. But he just went there, took Lau and returned. He didnt stay there to become HK's urban legend as well.
For me it was great. In this movie there are many subplots and none of them derails from the main plot. Hong Kong showed that batman has no jurisdiction, while allowing Nolan to use the cruise cover and skyhook. Two great assets of this film.

[Anita18]

Yes, it plays a role in the plot. That's why it was written in ... but the focus of the movie is derailed.

Derrr, are you getting this? This isn't the first time this criticism has been raised.

The pros saw it too.
Thanks for being so respectful. You mentioned yourself that it "derailed the plot" which is why I mentioned it had a part in the plot. :oldrazz: Now you're saying it wasn't the plot of the movie that was derailed, but the focus.

The "focus" of the movie wasn't really found anyway until Joker started killing people about 40 minutes in (10 minutes of which were devoted to the Hong Kong trip), and that was because the mob lent him the resources to do so. And they were desperate because the guy with all their money had been caught by someone acting outside of the law.

No, it's not the first time I've heard this criticism, but I haven't heard any "pros" aside from critics mention it. In fact, I can find you blog posts from screenwriters who praise TDK's plotting.

Some people also say that the entire Two-Face/Dent/Batman confrontation at the end could have been cut, but even though it would have given Joker the last laugh, it also would have derailed the entire arc of the film. It depends on how the viewer interprets it, but Chris Nolan is too good of a filmmaker to put an entire scene in for the heck of it.

[TheDarkKnight08]

But why?

It has no bearing on the events in the movie.

Why do we need Bruce angsty fully seen mourning or brooding his parents, like a whiny teen?

Too much is happening. He doesn't have time for that.

Bruce actually felt like a grown man in this film. He had alot on his plate.

Can I not say what I want on this thread? I'm simply answering the OP's question, yet you go and argue my opinion.

All I'm saying is that I would've wanted to see areference to his parents. It doesn't have to be a full scene, or a whole subplot. It could've been just a simple line in the movie. That's what I think.:o:brucebat:

[Zig-Zag Man]

Well sorry about that, i dont know how many comics you ve read, but batman sure does crazy things there.
This isn't a Batman comic. And yes, Batman does corny things sometimes in the comics. Some that don't even fit into the true essence of the character. Once again. This is a movie. A movie with a Batman, and a Batman world grounded in sober looking reality. The huge white lenses totally bucked at that concept.

And please dont tell me that its cartoonish, because so is the memory cloth, so is the batmobile and so is the batpod.
You're obviously not comprehending. The technology of any of those isn't cartoonish at all, really. Neither is the sonar / night vision imaging. The others were realistically applied, and looked believable. The design and LOOK of the lenses and vision was totally cartoonish.

[Mr. Earle]

Two Face the character in TDK, apart from his fantastical look, was a much more solid, complex, and interesting character than the one in the comics. BY FAR.
I liked the look as well! The phantom of the opera face wouldnt look as good unless it was coloured or something like in the comics.

And yes, even though i am not so sure about discarding his double personality, i think that this two-face had much more complex reasons for changing. "My father beat me up and now my face is ugly" just isnt good enough for me. Finally, the fact that twoface was so short lived makes him even more tragic though that means that he disappears from the rogues gallery. He wont be killing people, escaping arkham, blowing buildings for people and batman to hate. Hes a painfull memory now for everyone that experienced it.

[Zig-Zag Man]

He had duality to him, and it was subtle. Not the over the top double personality.

[Zig-Zag Man]

BTW, my stance on Harvey's look changed when I saw this pic. It is alot more realistic then I have it credit for ...

http://www.ispub.com/xml/journals/ijs/vol2n2/loupe-fig14.png

[Cory]

i also would have preferred some of the trailer cuts instead of what was used....

"this city deserves a better class of criminal" line shoulda been said to batman at their first confrontation IMO.

and the youll see, ill show ya from the trailers woulda been nice :up:

[Mr. Earle]

Some people also say that the entire Two-Face/Dent/Batman confrontation at the end could have been cut, but even though it would have given Joker the last laugh, it also would have derailed the entire arc of the film. It depends on how the viewer interprets it, but Chris Nolan is too good of a filmmaker to put an entire scene in for the heck of it.In the end we need to remember that the joker is the hurricane that hits gotham. Its what Batman and Dent do about it that the movie is all about. And that is adressed at the end of the film. I dont think we needed another film focusing on Dent killing people to get that, nor do i think that this twoface is a mass murderer. He mostly wanted "justice" for him and rachel.

[Zig-Zag Man]

Right. And he wasn't going to go the corny comic book route, and start flipping his coin and choosing to rob the 2nd bank of Gotham and all that other stupid crap.

[Mr. Earle]

You're obviously not comprehending. The technology of any of those isn't cartoonish at all, really. Neither is the sonar / night vision imaging. The others were realistically applied, and looked believable. The design and LOOK of the lenses and vision was totally cartoonish.I am pretty sure that thats how sonar looks.

As for the lenses themselves, come on, this is a batman movie. I too hate it when he uses boomtubes and crazy gadgets in the comics, but with your mindset Nolan should have discarded many many gadgets of his arsenal. FYI he almost had batman without a cape and a grapple gun because that would be realistic. Thank god for Goyer who talked him into out of this idea. He did something right after all!

[Zig-Zag Man]

No, I just want a better realistic and believable look to the lenses themselves if they were THAT neccessary to have.

I know.

TDK suit design was supposed to be totally cape less ala the way he looks on the HK building with the backpack.

But he loved the image of the cape being like a wraith as he rode the bat-pod.

[Cory]

I'd change all the whiney fanboys whining about the damn movie.

It was fine the way it was.

I seriously doubt ANY of you could do better.

wow, hold on guys, dont say anything youd change unless you want to be a 'whiney fanboy'.

:dry:

I wouldn't change anything.



i doubt that. NOT ONE thing?

Oh, i think that this thread is almost the same as "biggest disappointment". We all did our whining there for the biggest to the smallest disappointment. So why do it all over again here? Its obvious that we would change the things that disappointed us. Right?

theres differences between disappointments and things that you would have done different.

This has basically turned into the 'disappointment thread'.

then go talk in that? i really dont get why people even spend the time to post "this thread has turned into this thread" statements. must be bored?

but anyways. i like some of the ideas im reading. i read someone say the entire finale ^^^.... well i mean thats a little broad there. any last 30 minutes of a movie could be completely changed. what would you have done different? Joker vs Batman only you say, but how could that even be possible in this world? especially since joker loves attention.

[Mr. Earle]

BTW, my stance on Harvey's look changed when I saw this pic. It is alot more realistic then I have it credit for ...

http://www.ispub.com/xml/journals/ijs/vol2n2/loupe-fig14.pngNolan said that going a bit over the top would make Dent less gruesome. He would be ****ed up, but not in a discusting and painful to watch manner. And he is right. The picture you posted is much more gruesome because its so realistic. And i dont think it looks half as good as Two-face.
i also would have preferred some of the trailer cuts instead of what was used....

"this city deserves a better class of criminal" line shoulda been said to batman at their first confrontation IMO.

and the youll see, ill show ya from the trailers woulda been nice :up:i had noticed from the BB trailers that Nolan (and some other directors) use parts of the dialogue to give a resume of the movie in the trailer. So now i knew that the lines wouldnt be in that order and that there probably was more dialogue between them.
Have this in mind when the trailers for the next one come out (in 3 freaking years!) so that you dont get disappointed.

[Cory]

No, I just want a better realistic and believable look to the lenses themselves if they were THAT neccessary to have.

I know.

TDK suit design was supposed to be totally cape less ala the way he looks on the HK building with the backpack.

But he loved the image of the cape being like a wraith as he rode the bat-pod.


i never knew that he wanted to try batman without a cape. thats like having joker with no makeup, or superman with no S-shield.

thats unreal

[Mr. Earle]

No, I just want a better realistic and believable look to the lenses themselves if they were THAT neccessary to have.

I know.

TDK suit design was supposed to be totally cape less ala the way he looks on the HK building with the backpack.

But he loved the image of the cape being like a wraith as he rode the bat-pod.nonono! I meant in Begins. When Nolan was restarting batman and was fiddling with his image (belt got yellow again, cowl is radically different from previous movies, etc) Nolan thought that they should make him more like a ninja. No cape, no grapple gun. Sheesh, what was he thinking?

[Cory]

Nolan said that going a bit over the top would make Dent less gruesome. He would be ****ed up, but not in a discusting and painful to watch manner. And he is right. The picture you posted is much more gruesome because its so realistic. And i dont think it looks half as good as Two-face.
i had noticed from the BB trailers that Nolan (and some other directors) use parts of the dialogue to give a resume of the movie in the trailer. So now i knew that the lines wouldnt be in that order and that there probably was more dialogue between them.
Have this in mind when the trailers for the next one come out (in 3 freaking years!) so that you dont get disappointed.

are you talking about actual scenes or just voiceover, or both? naturally i knew alot of the trailer was mixed up and all, im just saying some of the voiceovers and stuff i was expecting at completely different times. i mean, who really thought joker was saying 'does it depress you how alone you are' to gordon and not to batman? it seems soo fitting for batman IN THE TRAILERS. but then as the movie is, it works for gordon just as well.

[Mr. Earle]

are you talking about actual scenes or just voiceover, or both? naturally i knew alot of the trailer was mixed up and all, im just saying some of the voiceovers and stuff i was expecting at completely different times. i mean, who really thought joker was saying 'does it depress you how alone you are' to gordon and not to batman? it seems soo fitting for batman IN THE TRAILERS. but then as the movie is, it works for gordon just as well.
i too thought he was referring to batman, because at that point the trailer shows us Bruce starring at Dent and Rachel holding hands. But it worked anyway.
Or for example i couldnt possibly have imagined that the "why so serious" line would have been from the joker quoting his father. I thought it was goint to be his motto throughout the film.

[Cory]

yea i hear ya on the why so serous part....hell i never picture the joker using his father and wife as stories leading up to cutting their smiles.... when he first said "my father was....a drinker" i was like WTF? then it kinda gave the feel of wait, is this BS or is it real? thne he talked about his wife to rachel...wheres it like wait which is true...so obviously both were bs and he was 'freestyling' lol

[El Payaso]

Yes, I could change this or that... but in all honesty this is a masterpiece and as such I respect it with all the little details. :up:

[BatJeff7786]

And I would love to see Joker blowing up both ferries (or them blowing up each other).

Seek help.

[El Payaso]

Seek help.

LOL

But I seriously wanted the same.

Nevertheless gave me a convincing outcome.

[Cory]

yea i def wanted him to blow up a ferry. plus, you know damn well out of those one hundred prisoners, one of the crazy bastards would get through those like 4 cops and push the button, no question.

i was thinking the whole time that both ferries would blow up, but the joker would of done it in a way that it was actually batman that did it unintentionally.

[titan101]

only problem i can think of right now is that the city looked WAAAAYYY too clean .

[Infinity9999x]

Or that he doesnt have the origin you want him to and that you are seeing what you want to see. Anyone who didnt know 2face before TDK will testify that there is no such thing implied in the movie. Therefore, Dent didnt have Jigsaw as his father. He was always on the verge of breaking the law trying to enforce it, and after the death of rachel he finally loses his faith in the justice system. He now believes that its all down to luck. I find it better than the "durr my father hit me, now i cant control my rage and i throw da coins in the air".
You're explanation of how his father's abuse effects him is purely your own making. The abuse his father dealt him would set him up for his obsession with duality, and since you obviously didn't grasp what I meant by that I'll explain.

When I say obsessed with duality, it doesn't mean he's obsessed with the number two. I don't want to see Two-Face with two girlfriends, owning two t.v.'s, owning two pairs of shoes....ect. It mean's he's obsessed with the duality of all things. The good side and bad side, the light and the dark. He's obsessed with the duality in humans, and he openly reflects this more then any normal person does. This is also why I said (in my other explanation) that I would have Harvey systematically attack gotham through the mob and justice system, that would hold symbolic meaning to him, because he's not just attacking Gotham, he's taking both dual sides of the city, the mob, which resembles the dark, and the justice system, which resembles the light, and using both sides to tear the city apart.

And if I'm not mistaken, in the novelization they include the abusive father aspect, they even have Harvey come home to find his dad had committed suicide I believe.

Its not about Batman running from the cops. Its about him taking the blame for multiple murders he did not commit, only because that way he would serve Gotham. That was the point of the movie. Not Dent's father or his double personality. You are dismissing the best part of the film only because you want to see BTAS or the Long Halloween in a live action film. Just go watch BTAS already.
I know it's about Batman serving Gotham, and if you actually read what I typed above, I would have that same ending. The whole movie dealt with Bruce's reluctance of the Batman mantle, and ending with him ultimately realizing he may be Batman forever, and accepting that he may have to do anything, even become a villain to serve the city.

If you look above, my post has this same ending, just slightly different.

And Anita18, I have to disagree. I don't think the alternate ending makes Batman seem somehow less strong. No, he's not making himself become a villain, but he's still accepting that he will wear the mantle of Batman, and he's willing to do anything to continue to be Batman. The end of the movie was showing us that Bruce has accepted Batman fully, that was the main message, and I think the other ending I proposed has the same message as well.

Also, about the film's ending, people consider the Two-face abduction part as an afterthough only because the joker is the main villain and ooooh canon says that the film must end with the good guy catching the main bad guy. Also, the set of the abduction didnt help either. It was rather bland, while people expected something spectacular to end the film.

If you've been reading my posts, you'll see that the very first thing I said in here was that I wanted the film to end with Two-Face still at large only because I wanted to see more done with his character. It's not because I think all movies have to end with the main bad guy being captured.

[Zig-Zag Man]

nonono! I meant in Begins. When Nolan was restarting batman and was fiddling with his image (belt got yellow again, cowl is radically different from previous movies, etc) Nolan thought that they should make him more like a ninja. No cape, no grapple gun. Sheesh, what was he thinking?
And I'm saying him and Linda Hemming were going to go farther with the costume. In the "Art of TDK" book, they said they were going to have Batman w/o a cape. It would've been that backpack thing you see briefly in the scene in HK. They spent so much time designing it they had to use it for something, so they threw it in that scene.

[Zig-Zag Man]

yea i hear ya on the why so serous part....hell i never picture the joker using his father and wife as stories leading up to cutting their smiles.... when he first said "my father was....a drinker" i was like WTF? then it kinda gave the feel of wait, is this BS or is it real? thne he talked about his wife to rachel...wheres it like wait which is true...so obviously both were bs and he was 'freestyling' lol
That was the best part about Ledger's job in that scene. When you see it in repeat viewings, you know he's bull ****ting Gambol. And you can see him subtely looking up away from Gambol while telling the story. Making it look like he's making it up as he goes.

[Yurka]

I would have liked to see Arkham and could have done without the "OK THATS NOT GOOD!" garbage. As well as the bat-pod driving up the wall :o

[Mr. Earle]

and since you obviously didn't grasp what I meant by that I'll explain.

When I say obsessed with duality, it doesn't mean he's obsessed with the number two. I don't want to see Two-Face with two girlfriends, owning two t.v.'s, owning two pairs of shoes....ect. It mean's he's obsessed with the duality of all things. The good side and bad side, the light and the dark. He's obsessed with the duality in humans, and he openly reflects this more then any normal person does.
I thought you meant the cheesy duality of his as seen in B-forever or some of the comics. My bad! *read that in Optimus Prime's voice*
I would have Harvey systematically attack gotham through the mob and justice system, that would hold symbolic meaning to him, because he's not just attacking Gotham, he's taking both dual sides of the city, the mob, which resembles the dark, and the justice system, which resembles the light, and using both sides to tear the city apart.What would the meaning of all this be? So he is just a wacko that attacks both sides. So what? Nolan always gives the villains a symbolic role so that they are not just bad guys for bale to beat, but they represent some aspect or obstacle of crime fighting.

And really, what you re saying about Two-face reminds me a lot what the joker did. Only that the joker was on a mission to prove a point, but on your case it would be just Two-face hellbent on his crazy meaningless mission.

I think that two face did his thing. It was short and it was tragic. No need for him to become a mass murdering villain. He will lose all the sympathy we have going for him.

I would like to see someone else in the next film, as well as a short cameo of the joker. In arkham perhaps when batman visits someone else and he walks by his cell or something. I wouldnt want to see the riddler though. He seems silly to me and i dont see how he can be used symbolically for Nolan to send us a deep message across.

And Anita18, I have to disagree. I don't think the alternate ending makes Batman seem somehow less strong. No, he's not making himself become a villain, but he's still accepting that he will wear the mantle of Batman, and he's willing to do anything to continue to be Batman. The end of the movie was showing us that Bruce has accepted Batman fully, that was the main message, and I think the other ending I proposed has the same message as well.Not really. In your ending it would just be the cops chasing him again like they have been doing all the time up until now.
But until now he was just a vigilante. Now he is a murderer. Even a cop killer. And he chose to take the fall for that to serve Gotham.

[Mr. Earle]

And I'm saying him and Linda Hemming were going to go farther with the costume. In the "Art of TDK" book, they said they were going to have Batman w/o a cape. It would've been that backpack thing you see briefly in the scene in HK. They spent so much time designing it they had to use it for something, so they threw it in that scene.
The only reason they considered him capeless for TDK is because the cape would get tangled up in the Pod's rear wheel so they came up with the backpack to be used for when he is riding it. But it turned out that the cape didnt get tangled up and it even looked fantastic so they didnt use it. They didnt consider having him capeless all the time for the sake of it.

[Mr. Earle]

I would have liked to see Arkham and could have done without the "OK THATS NOT GOOD!" garbage. As well as the bat-pod driving up the wall :oI second all your points.

[Infinity9999x]

I thought you meant the cheesy duality of his as seen in B-forever or some of the comics. My bad! *read that in Optimus Prime's voice*
What would the meaning of all this be? So he is just a wacko that attacks both sides. So what? Nolan always gives the villains a symbolic role so that they are not just bad guys for bale to beat, but they represent some aspect or obstacle of crime fighting.

And really, what you re saying about Two-face reminds me a lot what the joker did. Only that the joker was on a mission to prove a point, but on your case it would be just Two-face hellbent on his crazy meaningless mission. Here, this is what I typed originally about the whole situation
What I would have done (and this is just an idea I just thought up) would be to show how deeply Harvey becomes obsessed with justice and the duality of things. After the death of Rachel, and realizing how even Gordon's unit was extremely corrupted, Harvey would have viewed the entire city as letting him down. Everything he believed in, his sense of justice, was shattered in the moment that Rachel was killed.

Harvey wants revenge on all the things that betray him, so his Two-Face side sets out to gain control of the mob, to wage war on the justice system which he once tried to champion, but it ultimately failed him. On the other hand, the Dent personality goes out and finds information on the next DA who is running to take Harvey's place. After finding some dirt on him, he blackmails the DA, and in addition to that, gains control of some of the other main lawyers and judges in the justice system through threats and blackmail, effectively gaining control of the court system.

He then makes both sides go at eachother in a suicide battle, making the mob pull aggressive attacks and robberies, while at the same time having the laywers and judges he has under his control begin to order out extreme meausers to capture the members of the mob. Basically, he puts both sides in a situation where they'll destroy eachother. He sets up some of his main mob boys to get killed and captured by the police, while at the same time carring out hits against judges and lawyers, putting both sides into a frenzy.

In other words, he effictively puts Gotham into an all out war between the Law and Order and the mob, which would be perfect revenge for two-face, because he's equally punishing both sides responsible for Rachel's death and his condition.

At the same time, he'd use his power to try and dirty Gordon's name and make Batman an outlaw, getting his revenge on both of them.

Throughout all of this, I would also make good use of Two-Face's psyche, demonstrating how messed up he really is. I'd expand his character by having Bats investigate Dent's past, discovering the traumatic events that happened in his life and his abusive childhood, which set him up for his fall, even before Rachel.

I think that two face did his thing. It was short and it was tragic. No need for him to become a mass murdering villain. He will lose all the sympathy we have going for him.

I would like to see someone else in the next film, as well as a short cameo of the joker. In arkham perhaps when batman visits someone else and he walks by his cell or something. I wouldnt want to see the riddler though. He seems silly to me and i dont see how he can be used symbolically for Nolan to send us a deep message across.
I guess we just disagree on the character then. I think Two-Face is a very interesting villain, and one who we could have done much more with. And with the Riddler, I think he could be done interesting, but you'd have to reinvent him a bit.

Not really. In your ending it would just be the cops chasing him again like they have been doing all the time up until now.
But until now he was just a vigilante. Now he is a murderer. Even a cop killer. And he chose to take the fall for that to serve Gotham.

The cops had been "chasing" Batman, but everyone at that point knew they were letting him do his thing. In my senario, Gordon makes it clear that he has to really come after Batman for real now. Instead of having him take the fall for Gotham and lying and saying he's a murderer, I have him choosing to stay in Gotham when he knows he's going to be hunted as intensely as the Joker.

The whole point of Batman taking the fall for Dent was to show that he had finally overcome his weariness of the Batman role that we are shown in the beginning of TDK, that he has fully accepted the Batman mantle, and is willing to do anything to stay in the city and protect it.

I think the other senario shows this as well, it just doesn't have Batman opting to take the fall for Harvey. However, it still shows that he's willing to endure anything to continue protecting Gotham.

I will say, it's not quite as powerfull as the original TDK ending, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of that to see the Two-Face character done better.

[TheDarkVictory]

Get rid of the idiot SWAT guy that was with Gordon in the SWAT car chase sequence.

yeah this is all i would have gotten rid of. that guy sucks. he leeches all the suspense from the helicopter crash..."that's not good! ok, that's really not good!"...why nolan? the rest of the movie is so dead on and then there's just that....but still...it's not bad enough to ruin the film, at least, and it's still not as bad as "i GOTTA get me one of those!"

[Mr. Earle]

What I would have done (and this is just an idea I just thought up) would be to show how deeply Harvey becomes obsessed with justice and the duality of things. After the death of Rachel, and realizing how even Gordon's unit was extremely corrupted, Harvey would have viewed the entire city as letting him down. Everything he believed in, his sense of justice, was shattered in the moment that Rachel was killed.

Harvey wants revenge on all the things that betray him, so his Two-Face side sets out to gain control of the mob, to wage war on the justice system which he once tried to champion, but it ultimately failed him. On the other hand, the Dent personality goes out and finds information on the next DA who is running to take Harvey's place. After finding some dirt on him, he blackmails the DA, and in addition to that, gains control of some of the other main lawyers and judges in the justice system through threats and blackmail, effectively gaining control of the court system.

He then makes both sides go at eachother in a suicide battle, making the mob pull aggressive attacks and robberies, while at the same time having the laywers and judges he has under his control begin to order out extreme meausers to capture the members of the mob. Basically, he puts both sides in a situation where they'll destroy eachother. He sets up some of his main mob boys to get killed and captured by the police, while at the same time carring out hits against judges and lawyers, putting both sides into a frenzy.

In other words, he effictively puts Gotham into an all out war between the Law and Order and the mob, which would be perfect revenge for two-face, because he's equally punishing both sides responsible for Rachel's death and his condition.

At the same time, he'd use his power to try and dirty Gordon's name and make Batman an outlaw, getting his revenge on both of them.

Throughout all of this, I would also make good use of Two-Face's psyche, demonstrating how messed up he really is. I'd expand his character by having Bats investigate Dent's past, discovering the traumatic events that happened in his life and his abusive childhood, which set him up for his fall, even before Rachel. So basically it will be a mindless action flick where the mob fights the cops and lawyers because of TwoFace. Well i never thought they needed him to fight each other! I also dont see how people would be interested in another origin story of his. I think that TDK established what his problems were and why he turned. I never got any implications about his father nor did i even need them.
For some reason you are just fixated on Two-face and his father issues, not understanding that Nolan's Dent had a more complex psychology than "baw my father beat me up". Also, what you are asking would be the equivalent of another Ras movie to further explore his origin (wife and all) and the lazarus pits or lack thereof. You just want a movie about Dent's father and two-face in general.

I respect your opinion. I on the other hand had my share of Two-face and i am ready for something else. Hell, even a reappearence of Ras (unlikely) or Talia. But what i want most of all is a movie that focuses on Batman and his character development. You see, what Nolan has done in both films is assign the villain a certain role. Example: Ras = Kill or not kill for justice?
Scarecrow: Fear
Joker: Chaos and how we respond to that as a society

I'd like the next villain to trigger something else and open new roads of exploring Gotham and batman's development as a character. If i wanted a movie about Dent or his father, i would have asked for Burton (hehe).

[Mr. Earle]

The cops had been "chasing" Batman, but everyone at that point knew they were letting him do his thing. In my senario, Gordon makes it clear that he has to really come after Batman for real now. Instead of having him take the fall for Gotham and lying and saying he's a murderer, I have him choosing to stay in Gotham when he knows he's going to be hunted as intensely as the Joker.

The whole point of Batman taking the fall for Dent was to show that he had finally overcome his weariness of the Batman role that we are shown in the beginning of TDK, that he has fully accepted the Batman mantle, and is willing to do anything to stay in the city and protect it.

I think the other senario shows this as well, it just doesn't have Batman opting to take the fall for Harvey. However, it still shows that he's willing to endure anything to continue protecting Gotham.

I will say, it's not quite as powerfull as the original TDK ending, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of that to see the Two-Face character done better.
Ok, point taken. And yes its similar but not the same.

[Anita18]

And if I'm not mistaken, in the novelization they include the abusive father aspect, they even have Harvey come home to find his dad had committed suicide I believe.
I believe the novelization does, but Harvey's short biography in The Gotham Times for the TDK ARG does not. Since I saw absolutely no indication of a troubled childhood in TDK, I chose to believe the article in the viral marketing.

[Cory]

they had to throw in some lame one liners, like "ok thats NOT good!", believe it or not, people like the lame oneliners, my wife is a perfect example (bless her heart, i should cut a smile in her face :twisted:)

[Zig-Zag Man]

I don't think there is anything wrong with one liners. Jesus christ, fellas. This stuff is dramatic, but not that dramatic. Alittle escapism is okay one in awhile. It doesn't ruin anything. Why be so melodramatic?

[Cory]

i hear ya zigzag, i cant think of a movie in history without some cheesy one liner. to me, some random one liners are just part of the move experience

[El Payaso]

I don't think there is anything wrong with one liners. Jesus christ, fellas. This stuff is dramatic, but not that dramatic. Alittle escapism is okay one in awhile. It doesn't ruin anything. Why be so melodramatic?

Nothing against humour man. But if it's a crappy then it can kill a good scene like many times happened in BB. But TDK had little of those so no problem.

[Cory]

the only dialogue i completely hated in BB which made me give it a 8.5/10 instead of a solid 9 was "Shes been poisoned with a psychotrobic hallucinogen, a fear inducing toxin"

wtf. shut up . i wanted to punch him when he said all that....a simple "shes been poisoned, you cant help her, i can"

[TheDarkVictory]

I don't think there is anything wrong with one liners. Jesus christ, fellas. This stuff is dramatic, but not that dramatic. Alittle escapism is okay one in awhile. It doesn't ruin anything. Why be so melodramatic?

here's the thing, there's nothing wrong with one-liners if they are well placed and also amusing. but the swat guy was really, really poorly shoe-horned into an otherwise highly dramatic scene. i really think there is something wrong with having an incredible helicopter crash that makes your mouth drop contrasted with a guy going "OH SHUCKS AINT THAT THE PITS". didn't ruin the movie for me at all, but i'm still allowed to think it would have been better without it.

[ReallyCoolGuy]

ENTIRE finale. SWAT, hostages, dogs, sonar - no, thank you. I would like to see only Joker vs. Batman.

And I would love to see Joker blowing up both ferries

:up:

[Cory]

been better without it? i mean, its a PG13 movie, the guy cant say OH ****!

[Deadshot59]

I can't believe some of you claim you saw this movie as a 10/10, yet would change major parts of the movie.


It was what it was, and I loved it...



I guess it's just human nature to nitpick and complain.

[Cory]

I can't believe some of you claim you saw this movie as a 10/10, yet would change major parts of the movie.


It was what it was, and I loved it...



I guess it's just human nature to nitpick and complain.

if you are trying to say your top film, your 10/10 film, you wouldnt change ONE THING, then im calling you a liar.

The movie was a 10/10 the way it was to me. but i still would change some things if i could.

[Deadshot59]

if you are trying to say your top film, your 10/10 film, you wouldnt change ONE THING, then im calling you a liar.

The movie was a 10/10 the way it was to me. but i still would change some things if i could.


It wouldn't be my 10/10 if I would change things in the movie.


But I get what you're saying, I guess we all look at movies differently though. It's all good.

[Cory]

yea i get ya deadshot

[the dmg]

i hear ya zigzag, i cant think of a movie in history without some cheesy one liner. to me, some random one liners are just part of the GOYER experience

Fixed!

[Zig-Zag Man]

Nothing against humour man. But if it's a crappy then it can kill a good scene like many times happened in BB. But TDK had little of those so no problem.
Every Batman movie has had them. "Eat floor, high fiber" ... they're only scene killers if you let them be.

[El Payaso]

Every Batman movie has had them. "Eat floor, high fiber" ... they're only scene killers if you let them be.

Only if they're misplaced. If Batman is trying to show he's not afraid by by a one-liner is okay, if Joker says a one-liner is even better. When the situation is serious and the one-liner is there merely as a desperate attempt to keep your attention or to please you as if you couldn't be amused with good narration only, then it's a killer. Yes, I'm refering to Nice Coat. :P

[Infinity9999x]

So basically it will be a mindless action flick where the mob fights the cops and lawyers because of TwoFace. Well i never thought they needed him to fight each other! I also dont see how people would be interested in another origin story of his. I think that TDK established what his problems were and why he turned. I never got any implications about his father nor did i even need them.
For some reason you are just fixated on Two-face and his father issues, not understanding that Nolan's Dent had a more complex psychology than "baw my father beat me up". Also, what you are asking would be the equivalent of another Ras movie to further explore his origin (wife and all) and the lazarus pits or lack thereof. You just want a movie about Dent's father and two-face in general.

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I wanted a mindless action flick that features Two-Face.

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I only wanted a movie focused solely on the relationship between Two-Face and his father?

You're drawing conclusions from what I say that are unfounded.

To begin with, it would not in any way be a mindless action flick. As I said, Two-Face would view not only the individuals to blame for his predicament, but all of Gotham. And he would go about tearing Gotham apart using his own influences on both side of the law.

No, I do not want the mob and the law fighting each other, what I would have them do is enter an all out WAR. Two Face pushes both sides past extremes. I'm not talking judges ordering swat teams to apprehend known mob hangouts, I'm saying Two-Face begins forcing Judges and Lawyers to enact warrants that escalates everything. Shoot on sight orders for anyone affiliated with the mob, forcing through search warrants for buildings and areas with no evidence, and then making sure the mob is there to ensure a bloodbath.

And the reason he's doing this, as I said, is because he's obsessed with duality. He wants to tear apart Gotham from both sides, the dark and light.

Besides all this, as I've already stated, Two-Face would use his power to start smearing Gordon, trying to dirty his name (you could also add the subplot of Gordon and Essen from Y1, and have Two-Face dirty Gordon's name that way) While at the same time forcing the law to enact extreme measures to capture Batman.

In addition to this, you could also throw in another villain, like the Riddler or the Penguin. This was just my idea for Two-Face, not for everything in the movie.

And where the heck do you get the idea that I think Two-Face is a guy who is motivated solely by his father. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. You fail to recognize that there is more to Two-Face's psychology then his grief at Rachel and rage that the Justice system failed him. Nolan's Two-Face is all about revenge, and as I've said, the character is deeper then that.

The issues with his father are very complex. His father would tell him he would beat him if he flipped heads on his lucky coin. Obviously it always landed heads. This planted the seeds for Dent's eventual obsession with duality and chance. Two very important parts of him. But I'm not saying, NOR HAVE I EVER SAID, that this is the only part to him. It's only a part of what makes him interesting.

And you're missing the fact that I only said I'd mention the father in a subplot. Bats would discover Dent's past while researching him. It was only an added detail I threw in there!

You've completely missed all the points I've made about Two-Face's character. There are many deep and interesting things you could do with the character that I felt Nolan has done. The entire Mob situation I proposed all has symbolic meaning to the character. It's the tearing apart of Gotham at it's two dual halves. The dark side (the mob) and the light (the law). Two-Face gains control and corrupts both of these sides and uses them to destroy Gotham. Thus gaining his revenge on Gotham for what it did to him, and turning it into a mirror image of himself. Two contrasting sides battling for control.

See, Two-Face is a reflection of all humans. We all have our dark sides and our good sides, but because of the trauma he experienced, his two sides have been forced into extremes that normal humans don't show. He has gone as far to actually separate the two sides of him into separate personalities, whereas we as normal people try to hide our dark sides, and not only that, but we blur the lines between each side. We don't limit ourselves to being only good, or only bad. We act in-between.

Gotham would start out like a normal person, the good side and bad side coexisting in one entity. Two-Face, by pitting the two sides of the city into a confrontation more extreme then ever before, would force the city into the same polarized state he is in.



I respect your opinion. I on the other hand had my share of Two-face and i am ready for something else. Hell, even a reappearence of Ras (unlikely) or Talia. But what i want most of all is a movie that focuses on Batman and his character development. You see, what Nolan has done in both films is assign the villain a certain role. Example: Ras = Kill or not kill for justice?
Scarecrow: Fear
Joker: Chaos and how we respond to that as a society

I'd like the next villain to trigger something else and open new roads of exploring Gotham and batman's development as a character. If i wanted a movie about Dent or his father, i would have asked for Burton (hehe).

As I said above, I'm not saying Two-Face would be the only villain in the film. But I think I've demonstrated above that he would do very well to explore a new theme in a Batman movie: Duality.

Not only could we examine Two-Face attacking Gotham through duality, we could start examining the duality of Batman, and examine the issues Bruce has to deal with more in depth. Such as the questions: who is the real person? Bruce or Batman? Which is the act? And does it have to be either one, or is it somewhere in between.

Duality is great theme of Two-Face, and one that could have been explored in depth with Batman as well.

[DACrowe]

Is this seriously a thread?

NOTHING. Not a thing.

Especially when most are just complaints that they saw it in the trailer and thought it was one way or one take and didn't accept it was new.

[Mr. Earle]

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I wanted a mindless action flick that features Two-Face.

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I only wanted a movie focused solely on the relationship between Two-Face and his father?

You're drawing conclusions from what I say that are unfounded.

To begin with, it would not in any way be a mindless action flick. As I said, Two-Face would view not only the individuals to blame for his predicament, but all of Gotham. And he would go about tearing Gotham apart using his own influences on both side of the law.

No, I do not want the mob and the law fighting each other, what I would have them do is enter an all out WAR. Two Face pushes both sides past extremes. I'm not talking judges ordering swat teams to apprehend known mob hangouts, I'm saying Two-Face begins forcing Judges and Lawyers to enact warrants that escalates everything. Shoot on sight orders for anyone affiliated with the mob, forcing through search warrants for buildings and areas with no evidence, and then making sure the mob is there to ensure a bloodbath.

And the reason he's doing this, as I said, is because he's obsessed with duality. He wants to tear apart Gotham from both sides, the dark and light.

Besides all this, as I've already stated, Two-Face would use his power to start smearing Gordon, trying to dirty his name (you could also add the subplot of Gordon and Essen from Y1, and have Two-Face dirty Gordon's name that way) While at the same time forcing the law to enact extreme measures to capture Batman.

In addition to this, you could also throw in another villain, like the Riddler or the Penguin. This was just my idea for Two-Face, not for everything in the movie.

And where the heck do you get the idea that I think Two-Face is a guy who is motivated solely by his father. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. You fail to recognize that there is more to Two-Face's psychology then his grief at Rachel and rage that the Justice system failed him. Nolan's Two-Face is all about revenge, and as I've said, the character is deeper then that.

The issues with his father are very complex. His father would tell him he would beat him if he flipped heads on his lucky coin. Obviously it always landed heads. This planted the seeds for Dent's eventual obsession with duality and chance. Two very important parts of him. But I'm not saying, NOR HAVE I EVER SAID, that this is the only part to him. It's only a part of what makes him interesting.

And you're missing the fact that I only said I'd mention the father in a subplot. Bats would discover Dent's past while researching him. It was only an added detail I threw in there!

You've completely missed all the points I've made about Two-Face's character. There are many deep and interesting things you could do with the character that I felt Nolan has done. The entire Mob situation I proposed all has symbolic meaning to the character. It's the tearing apart of Gotham at it's two dual halves. The dark side (the mob) and the light (the law). Two-Face gains control and corrupts both of these sides and uses them to destroy Gotham. Thus gaining his revenge on Gotham for what it did to him, and turning it into a mirror image of himself. Two contrasting sides battling for control.

See, Two-Face is a reflection of all humans. We all have our dark sides and our good sides, but because of the trauma he experienced, his two sides have been forced into extremes that normal humans don't show. He has gone as far to actually separate the two sides of him into separate personalities, whereas we as normal people try to hide our dark sides, and not only that, but we blur the lines between each side. We don't limit ourselves to being only good, or only bad. We act in-between.

Gotham would start out like a normal person, the good side and bad side coexisting in one entity. Two-Face, by pitting the two sides of the city into a confrontation more extreme then ever before, would force the city into the same polarized state he is in.




As I said above, I'm not saying Two-Face would be the only villain in the film. But I think I've demonstrated above that he would do very well to explore a new theme in a Batman movie: Duality.

Not only could we examine Two-Face attacking Gotham through duality, we could start examining the duality of Batman, and examine the issues Bruce has to deal with more in depth. Such as the questions: who is the real person? Bruce or Batman? Which is the act? And does it have to be either one, or is it somewhere in between.

Duality is great theme of Two-Face, and one that could have been explored in depth with Batman as well.Ok, sorry to be so negative here, but a guy who attacks both sides, is a wacko who attacks both sides. I dont see anything deep in that. Just a guy that attacks both sides of the law. What is so deep about that? What does this tells us about our society? What does it tell us about morality? I think nothing. Thats why i said that it will be mindless. Because i simply dont see anything to it. It would be the same to me if you said that this guy is a penguin and steals bird-themed art pieces. Just some obsessed wacko.

As for Bruce's duality and who is the real person, i believe that nowadays in the comics its pretty clear that the real person is batman, because hey, batman is a dick and all that and that is so "deep" and good writing. I beg to differ. I miss Bruce Wayne in comics nowadays. So anyway, to me the real person is the Bruce Wayne we see in front of Alfred and Rachel. The Bruce Wayne that isnt masquerading as a drunken playboy, but the real brilliant mind behind batman. Perhaps batman is a manifestation of his character as well, his angry, violent, dark side. Something like that for me at least. So i think that all that can be explored with someone like Catwoman. I think that the similarities and differences with Dent have been explored extensively in TDK. White Knight, Dark Knight, what more do you want?

[Infinity9999x]

Ok, sorry to be so negative here, but a guy who attacks both sides, is a wacko who attacks both sides. I dont see anything deep in that. Just a guy that attacks both sides of the law. What is so deep about that? What does this tells us about our society? What does it tell us about morality? I think nothing. Thats why i said that it will be mindless. Because i simply dont see anything to it. It would be the same to me if you said that this guy is a penguin and steals bird-themed art pieces. Just some obsessed wacko.
You're simplifying things. I could say the same thing you are about every villain. Joker's just a wacko who wants to destroy everything, Riddler is just a wacko who likes to leave clues after he commits a crime. What's so interesting about either of them?

And I thought I made it fairly clear how Two-Face relates to our society and morality. Two-Face is the reflection of all people, but forced to extremes. Everyone has a dark side and a light side, but in normal people the lines are blurred. The light and the dark coexist in one individual. In Two-Face, because of what he experienced, his good side and bad side completely split and became their own personalities.

See, in normal people, the good and the bad in us is intermingled. We act, and do things, that are morally gray. In Two-Face, there is no gray. There is only white and black. Two-Face is what we all secretly fear. Everyone has that dark side to them, and to be frank, we're all a little scared of the dark side in us, because deep down, sometimes we feel like it's almost as if we have another person inside us, something evil. Two-Face is our worst fear, in that his inner demons actually all came to the surface and actually formed into their own personality, and took control.

With Nolan's Two-Face, we didn't see any of that. We only saw a man motivated by revenge. Revenge is only one part of Two-Face's character, not the only part.

Besides that, I thought there was much to explore with the dynamic between Two-Face and Dent. Two-Face is a character with that's literally two people in one body. They interact with each other, and in some cases, fight against one another. We never got to see that explored.

And I thought I made the symbolism of his destruction of Gotham fairly clear. Two-Face is destroying Gotham at it's dual halves, turning it into two waring fractions, and because of this, turning it into a reflection of himself. Two dual sides tearing their body apart.




As for Bruce's duality and who is the real person, i believe that nowadays in the comics its pretty clear that the real person is batman, because hey, batman is a dick and all that and that is so "deep" and good writing. I beg to differ. I miss Bruce Wayne in comics nowadays. So anyway, to me the real person is the Bruce Wayne we see in front of Alfred and Rachel. The Bruce Wayne that isnt masquerading as a drunken playboy, but the real brilliant mind behind batman. Perhaps batman is a manifestation of his character as well, his angry, violent, dark side. Something like that for me at least. So i think that all that can be explored with someone like Catwoman. I think that the similarities and differences with Dent have been explored extensively in TDK. White Knight, Dark Knight, what more do you want?

Right here you've illustrated why I think it would be a good idea to explore Bruce's duality further in a movie. You just provided me with an explanation of who you think is the real person in the Bruce/Batman persona (and to be clear, I agree with you in your description of movie Batman), but, if we go out and ask others, we'd get completely different answers. Everyone has their own opinions on who Batman really is, and I think it would be interesting to further explore that, because I think at times Bruce himself doesn't fully know.

And I think including Catwoman would be a perfect idea to further explore duality, she represents the dark allure of a double life, she's the thing that would make Bruce want to be Batman more then Bruce. She represents Bruce's dark side, the desire to be Batman and be above the law.

Gordon represents the light, the good side of leading one life. He's the straight and narrow, lawful good cop. He's what Bruce sometimes wishes he could be. A normal man fighting crime in the lawful way, with a family and children, with no double life.

Two-Face represents the battle between these two sides that is going on between Bruce, and it shows how it can destroy a man. He's the cautionary tale to Bruce, showing him how, if you can't find a medium between your light and your darkness, it will eat you alive.

[gwynplaine]

Nada.

[Knightsaber Priss]

I'm betting this has already been said, but I'd let Two Face live. There's just way too much that they should have saved with him for the third movie, just like Venom in SM3.

[the dmg]

I'm betting this has already been said, but I'd let Two Face live. There's just way too much that they should have saved with him for the third movie, just like Venom in SM3.

Problem is, Venom was never supposed to be in SM3 and Raimi killed the character for that reason (aside from the fact that he didn't like Venom/Eddie Brock to begin with).

While I would like to see Two Face live as well, and with Ledger's passing, there could always be a change in direction to what they would want to do in the third film.

[Mr. Earle]

For those who asked for a different face for...em...Two-Face, take a look at his guy. He looks exactly like the comic book 2Face. But he doesnt have the level of detail that the movie one has, the kind that makes you want to examine him for hours. I like both of them and would have been happy by any of them. Anyway, here it is:

http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1222728126881um5.jpg

[EHTNAMTAB]

Watching the Dark Knight again recently, i think i know exactly what i would change. unfortunately its quite large, and not an original idea. However, i think that the section of the film between the destruction of the hospital and the final confrontation between batman and the joker (excellent in itself) could be tightened, made smarter and overall better.

i say this as a fan of the film, but look at the tight editing and direction in, to pick one, the sequence where the joker attmepts to kill dent, loed and the judge. it's edge of your seat stuff.

Unfortunately the ending of ther joker/batman sequence is farily sloppy and the boats sequence, to quote mark kermode, is extraneous.

the problems are as follows:

-after immediately setting up two face, the sequence then drags attention back away from his charater and makes it all about the (excellent) joker

-the sonar machine is effectively a huge deus ex machina. its a way of batman finding the joker, without a great deal of effort. There are surely a thousand way of batman using his intelligence to find joker - perhpas based on a trail he leaves (he wants batman to be there, doesn't he?) or perhaps interrogating one of the GCU turncoats. there are numerous possibilities more interesting than, effectively a "find the bad guy machine".

-i realise sonar fits into the whole "burn the forest down" angle, but that could be moure personal if, after the rachel and dent incidents, batman arrived with full intention of killing the joker, but changed his mind at the last minute. it would also tie in nicely with two face - batman's free will vs his fate (the coin)

-the fight in the building is unclear. why can no one see the joker at the top of the building? why dont swat wait for batman?

like i say, the film is very good, but unusally, gthe third act is the weakest (there are hundreds of mediocre films with amazing last acts, very few near perfect with such a flawed final showdown) - that said the two face showdown was perect and i can kind of see the logic for not having a three way joker/batman/two face finale

deos anyone agree?

[Mr. Earle]

after the rachel and dent incidents, batman arrived with full intention of killing the joker, but changed his mind at the last minute. it would also tie in nicely with two face - batman's free will vs his fate (the coin)
I think batman made up his mind about killing in BB.
-the fight in the building is unclear. why can no one see the joker at the top of the building? why dont swat wait for batman?Because its a movie?

Other than that, i agree with the sonar used as a deus ex machina.

[kyuubijavi1]

I'd make the movie longer

at least 10 to 20 mins more add a few extra scenes here and there and keep dent alive only cause he was awesome

other than that the movie was perfect to me, the movie tied everything up and left a small opening for a 3rd

[Two-Face=Badass]

I would only change a few things. First would be a line where in the finale someone calls him Harvey and he screams something like "Harvey's not here right now! It's Two-Face you're dealing with!". Would just be nice to see that his character name was not just a throwaway line but a name he had embraced.

Also, I'd make the finale in a location that lets him have a Dark Victory style "death". Yes, I know it takes away a little of the irony of the location of Rachel's death, but then the theme is clearly still there, and Harvey can easily come back.

Basically in my opinion I find it stupid that they killed Two-Face. He is not just a revenge obsessed character like fans want to believe, he had much to offer and still can.

[GregComicFan]

1. Make the movie longer and add in a few scenes delving into Two-Face's past and how he is a little "off" mentally to begin with (like in the Animated Series... how he is secretly seeing a psychiatrist)...

but then again, the movie is fine the way it is...but if there was an EXTENDED CUT, that's what I would want.

2. More references and hints to Batman's world and future sequels...like someone sneaking in some more easter eggs... mentions of characters from the comics, etc.

[Spider-Man '92]

If anything, I would've had a moment in the race for Rachel and Harvey scene where we have Maroni and his lackies laughing over Dent as he's tied there. It would've been a good moment for that sense of rivalry between them.

All that aside, nothing needs changing.

[Rasputin911]

If anything, I would've had a moment in the race for Rachel and Harvey scene where we have Maroni and his lackies laughing over Dent as he's tied there. It would've been a good moment for that sense of rivalry between them.

All that aside, nothing needs changing.

i didn't get the impression that Maroni actually knew about Harvey/Rachel's kidnapping. He even betrays the Joker after it happened, because its "too much craziness"

I think Two-Face wasn't explored enough either. Harvey was, but not Two-Face. The third film should have been his.

[Rasputin911]

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I wanted a mindless action flick that features Two-Face.

Where, in any of my posts, did I say that I only wanted a movie focused solely on the relationship between Two-Face and his father?

You're drawing conclusions from what I say that are unfounded.

To begin with, it would not in any way be a mindless action flick. As I said, Two-Face would view not only the individuals to blame for his predicament, but all of Gotham. And he would go about tearing Gotham apart using his own influences on both side of the law.

No, I do not want the mob and the law fighting each other, what I would have them do is enter an all out WAR. Two Face pushes both sides past extremes. I'm not talking judges ordering swat teams to apprehend known mob hangouts, I'm saying Two-Face begins forcing Judges and Lawyers to enact warrants that escalates everything. Shoot on sight orders for anyone affiliated with the mob, forcing through search warrants for buildings and areas with no evidence, and then making sure the mob is there to ensure a bloodbath.

And the reason he's doing this, as I said, is because he's obsessed with duality. He wants to tear apart Gotham from both sides, the dark and light.

Besides all this, as I've already stated, Two-Face would use his power to start smearing Gordon, trying to dirty his name (you could also add the subplot of Gordon and Essen from Y1, and have Two-Face dirty Gordon's name that way) While at the same time forcing the law to enact extreme measures to capture Batman.

In addition to this, you could also throw in another villain, like the Riddler or the Penguin. This was just my idea for Two-Face, not for everything in the movie.

And where the heck do you get the idea that I think Two-Face is a guy who is motivated solely by his father. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. You fail to recognize that there is more to Two-Face's psychology then his grief at Rachel and rage that the Justice system failed him. Nolan's Two-Face is all about revenge, and as I've said, the character is deeper then that.

The issues with his father are very complex. His father would tell him he would beat him if he flipped heads on his lucky coin. Obviously it always landed heads. This planted the seeds for Dent's eventual obsession with duality and chance. Two very important parts of him. But I'm not saying, NOR HAVE I EVER SAID, that this is the only part to him. It's only a part of what makes him interesting.

And you're missing the fact that I only said I'd mention the father in a subplot. Bats would discover Dent's past while researching him. It was only an added detail I threw in there!

You've completely missed all the points I've made about Two-Face's character. There are many deep and interesting things you could do with the character that I felt Nolan has done. The entire Mob situation I proposed all has symbolic meaning to the character. It's the tearing apart of Gotham at it's two dual halves. The dark side (the mob) and the light (the law). Two-Face gains control and corrupts both of these sides and uses them to destroy Gotham. Thus gaining his revenge on Gotham for what it did to him, and turning it into a mirror image of himself. Two contrasting sides battling for control.

See, Two-Face is a reflection of all humans. We all have our dark sides and our good sides, but because of the trauma he experienced, his two sides have been forced into extremes that normal humans don't show. He has gone as far to actually separate the two sides of him into separate personalities, whereas we as normal people try to hide our dark sides, and not only that, but we blur the lines between each side. We don't limit ourselves to being only good, or only bad. We act in-between.

Gotham would start out like a normal person, the good side and bad side coexisting in one entity. Two-Face, by pitting the two sides of the city into a confrontation more extreme then ever before, would force the city into the same polarized state he is in.




As I said above, I'm not saying Two-Face would be the only villain in the film. But I think I've demonstrated above that he would do very well to explore a new theme in a Batman movie: Duality.

Not only could we examine Two-Face attacking Gotham through duality, we could start examining the duality of Batman, and examine the issues Bruce has to deal with more in depth. Such as the questions: who is the real person? Bruce or Batman? Which is the act? And does it have to be either one, or is it somewhere in between.

Duality is great theme of Two-Face, and one that could have been explored in depth with Batman as well.

Great story for a third film. Two-Face deserves to be the main villain in a Bat-movie.

I think part of the problem is that the Joker has many good comic arcs to draw inspiration from, but there are very few good Two-Face stories.

[copywrite]

Too many corny lines. And the scene in the courtroom where the witness pulls out a gun on Dent was retarded.

[Caped Crusader]

And the scene in the courtroom where the witness pulls out a gun on Dent was retarded.

Uh how so? :huh:

[Mr. Earle]

2. More references and hints to Batman's world and future sequels...like someone sneaking in some more easter eggs... mentions of characters from the comics, etc.
that would help establish the batworld so much! if only. We deserved at least a Harley Quinzel cameo.

[Infinity9999x]

Great story for a third film. Two-Face deserves to be the main villain in a Bat-movie.

I think part of the problem is that the Joker has many good comic arcs to draw inspiration from, but there are very few good Two-Face stories.

Thank you :) It is a shame we wont's see more of him.:csad:

that would help establish the batworld so much! if only. We deserved at least a Harley Quinzel cameo.

I agree, I was really hoping for a mention of her or Selina Kyle.

[MessenjahMatt]

I don't know where else to put this, so.....

One thing bugs me every time I see the film. When Batman is riding the Bat-pod for the first time and shoots at the entrance to some kind of shopping center, then as he's about to break through, it cuts to some random shot of Batman driving somewhere else for a few seconds, before going back to the previous scene and Batman finally going through the door. Anyone else notice this odd cut?

but yeah, that's the only thing I would tidy up about this film. haha

[[A]]

I'd go George Lucas all over Batman Begins and cut Katie Holmes out and put Maggie in :woot: yay hahaha


..just kidding, just kidding.. :whatever:

[MessenjahMatt]

I'd go George Lucas all over Batman Begins and cut Katie Holmes out and put Maggie in :woot: yay hahaha


..just kidding, just kidding.. :whatever:

How about the opposite?

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1889/holmesdarkknightgo1.gif

haha.

[[A]]

How about the opposite?

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1889/holmesdarkknightgo1.gif

haha.

ahhhh that's a bloody nightmare!!! :hehe:

[gwynplaine]

How about the opposite?

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1889/holmesdarkknightgo1.gif

haha.
Lol:woot:.

[myway]

At the end of the movie, Batman wrecklessly tarnishe's his public image, the same image that he's always maintained was necessary to inspire people; change that.

[I Am The Knight]

I don't know where else to put this, so.....

One thing bugs me every time I see the film. When Batman is riding the Bat-pod for the first time and shoots at the entrance to some kind of shopping center, then as he's about to break through, it cuts to some random shot of Batman driving somewhere else for a few seconds, before going back to the previous scene and Batman finally going through the door. Anyone else notice this odd cut?

but yeah, that's the only thing I would tidy up about this film. haha

Yeah, I did notice that. Odd editing I guess.

[[A]]

how about.. the scene where Judge Surrillo is blown up (:funny:).. not the scene itself, the explosion, not that--but the cops' reaction. I think the guy on the right is talking, and the guy on the left just makes this robotic look/glance at the rear-view mirror, reminding me of that security guard who died in T2. I'd change that, the cops reaction

[Symbiote666]

Were they cops? I thought they were some of The Joker's boys setting her up. I doubt a cop would simply hand over a sealed envelope to a judge without checking it.

[[A]]

Were they cops? I thought they were some of The Joker's boys setting her up. I doubt a cop would simply hand over a sealed envelope to a judge without checking it.
Maroni's guys.. anyway, you get the idea

[Man Who Laughed]

"Have a nice trip, see ya next fall."

That line needs to go, seeing as how it isn't even in the correct context. You're supposed to say that when you trip somebody. Emphasis on trip and fall.That's it.

[Ronny Shade]

Literally the ONLY THING I would change about this movie is that sonar thing. That was kinda wack.

[.:TheDarkKnight]

At the end of the movie, Batman wrecklessly tarnishe's his public image, the same image that he's always maintained was necessary to inspire people; change that.

This is dumb. He never wanted a good image, he wanted to be a symbol, that inspired people to fight crime(not literally). His image being wrecked in the end made the whole movie, they all put their faith into Dent and he died, so he has to make sure that no one knows what he did. That's why he takes the blame. Because he can do those things, he's not a hero, he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, ....THE DARK KNIGHT.

[.:TheDarkKnight]

Literally the ONLY THING I would change about this movie is that sonar thing. That was kinda wack.

If it was a bit more realistic, it would've been the ****.

[goh78]

I was thinking about a ton of things i would have changed about this movie, but only compared to the trailers really. For instance, the dialogue. in the trailers, it was almost guaranteed it was batman the joker was talking to during most of the voice overs etc. Obviously 'Evening Commissioner' wasnt, but quotes from the trailers like, "Does it depress you? Just how alone you really are..." is it just me, or would this have been better if he said that to batman? i also thought 'lets put a smile on that face' was to batman, but it worked out perfect the way that was.

then, 'and here...we......GO!' wow. this line was so great in the trailers, its actual scene didnt live up to it. i was expecting this line somewhere in the end of the second act to the beginning of the third. joker has escaped jail, and all the ****s about to hit the fan. thats what i was expecting out of it. saying that infront of say some goons that are thinking this ****er is nuts, 'and here we go'...BOOM some **** blows up lol

another thing i would change, the chase scene, shoulda lasted a bit longer and been a bit more intense. the only real highlight is the semi flipping, the batpod flip wasnt bad, but also wasnt THAT much.

the party crashing scene seemed like it was missing something. it was toooo brief of a confrontation....on second heath is just in the zone, then batman comes out of no where, throws 3-4 punches then jumps out the window. however, in all honesty, this scene was probably more realistic.

finally, id change maronis role. he gets maybe 5 minutes of screen time lol. he coulda been used so much more and better.

for the record. not one of these are complaints. i loved the movie 10/10 the way it is. probably my favorite movie of all time, and without a doubt my best theater experience. but about a billion dollars later, weve earned the right to nitpick and say what we would have done differently.

in short. my #1 thing i would change is the dialogue, not what was said, but to whom it was said.

So basically you watched the trailer so many times that you got a sense of what you thought happened in the movie, than you saw it, and were dissapointed that you weren't correct. This is a f--king stupid thread.

[TLH]

Call me a bit crazy, but I would change the execution of the HIT ME scene.

That extremely quick shot of the Joker yelling "HIT ME" in a strange, growly voice rubbed me the wrong way. And, in the very next shot, when they showed Batman on the cycle rearing towards him, you hear some annoying grunt/yell/scream ("AAHHHHH") supposedly coming from Batman, but his mouth/expression doesn't quite match it.

[[A]]

That extremely quick shot of the Joker yelling "HIT ME" in a strange, growly voice rubbed me the wrong way. And, in the very next shot, when they showed Batman on the cycle rearing towards him, you hear some annoying grunt/yell/scream ("AAHHHHH") supposedly coming from Batman, but his mouth/expression doesn't quite match it.

I think the growling even starts a bit late--let me check

[dark_b]

a better rachel rescue scene.

[JaD]

I think the growling even starts a bit late--let me check
Did anyone notice that Heath's mouth wasn't moving when he yelled "He missed!" in the truck before he was flipped?

[[A]]

Did anyone notice that Heath's mouth wasn't moving when he yelled "He missed!" in the truck before he was flipped?
heheheeh heh heh ah ah ooh oh ah could be, you know--but the windshield is so damaged at that point--let me check (again)

[Cory]

So basically you watched the trailer so many times that you got a sense of what you thought happened in the movie, than you saw it, and were dissapointed that you weren't correct. This is a f--king stupid thread.

theres an educated response. i love the fact you spent the time to post in a stupid thread :yay:.

[Cory]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't heath saying 'he missed' it was the guy sitting next to him...

[[A]]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't heath saying 'he missed' it was the guy sitting next to him...
Well I'm pretty sure you're deaf :oldrazz: just kidding, just kidding.. but it's the Joker, come on--pay attention! :indy:

[Cory]

No. its not the joker. its definitely the other guy...watch the scene on youtube. its clearly the other guy.

[titan101]

Did anyone notice that Heath's mouth wasn't moving when he yelled "He missed!" in the truck before he was flipped?
i'm pretty sure that wasn't even heath's voice saying that at all .

[[A]]

You people are kidding, right..? It is the Joker. Don't watch a youtube vid, for Joker's sake

[JaD]

Ha I think I just sparked the newest Six/Ten-ish debate here.

[[A]]

Ha I think I just sparked the newest Six/Ten-ish debate here.
I don't wanna say it but :whatever: if anyone's got the dvd screener, watch it--set the brightness really high and that'll do it for ya

[deathfromabove]

You people are kidding, right..? It is the Joker. Don't watch a youtube vid, for Joker's sake

are you kidding? its not the joker saying it, its his henchman in the passenger seat. it is clearly not his voice. not even close.

[JaD]

are you kidding? its not the joker saying it, its his henchman in the passenger seat. it is clearly not his voice. not even close.
Wow, holy crap. This whole time I was believing that was Heath, I mean his voice does change several times in that movie. And his henchman doesn't look like someone to yell something like that high pitched and Jokery

I think it's intended to be The Joker. The way he looks around the side of the truck quickly then the voice comes out. I think it's him

[I Am The Knight]

Wow, here we go .... :whatever:

It's clearly the other dude. Plus, Joker would probably stick his head out the window, and yell "You missed!"

[deathfromabove]

no way is that heath's voice. the inflection, the tone, the pitch are not him.

anyone with accesss to a copy with decent audio want to back me up here?

:whatever:

[JaD]

no way is that heath's voice. the inflection, the tone, the pitch are not him.

anyone with accesss to a copy with decent audio want to back me up here?

:whatever:
Ha, scratch that. Just look at the script then.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/JAD51287/tdkblog/hemissed.jpg

I totally thought it was The Joker every time.

[Cory]

yea i can see how people thought it was joker, but when watching it, the joker looks around like what the hell where is he going?

[Spider-Vader]

I would of had Two-Face saved for #3.

[goh78]

Ha, scratch that. Just look at the script then.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/JAD51287/tdkblog/hemissed.jpg

I totally thought it was The Joker every time.

I don't mean this rude but how can you have enough sense to find the script, find that part, print screen that part, upload it, and post it.....and (before) think that was the Joker saying that line?

[Ronny Shade]

If it was a bit more realistic, it would've been the ****.
Yes. But it was too flashy and the CG was pretty fake...I'm sorry you wouldn't be able to see "FBI" on someone's jacket through that thing.

[Monkey Dome]

Well, this was a little experiment for me. I wanted to work out the screenwriting format, so I got my hands on a TDK draft by Jonathan Nolan, and while copying it out, changed a few things here and there.

You know, addressing some common beefs like why does the Joker just leave Dent's fundraiser? And why does Rachel want to hide out at Wayne's penthouse when that's where the Joker threw her out a window? Then there were major things, like all of the Joker's scenes and the last 30 minutes of the movie. Suffice to say, if you wanted Harvey Dent to survive, maybe this will lift your spirits.

So if you want to skip to the stuff that was changed, instead of reading through Jonathan Nolan's script, just go to all of the Joker's scenes and from the Ferry stand-off on.

http://rapidshare.com/files/158552630/THE_DARK_KNIGHT_rewrite.pdf.html

DISCLAIMER:
There is some swearing and violence. This wouldn't make a PG-13 movie. I just hope it all fits in context, instead of being forced in--like the Joker becoming a cannibal and raping anything that moves... something bizarre like that, where someone would have to ask...

"Why would he do that?"

And I would say...

"'Cause, you know... he's crazzzzyyy!"

[.:TheDarkKnight]

Yes. But it was too flashy and the CG was pretty fake...I'm sorry you wouldn't be able to see "FBI" on someone's jacket through that thing.

That's the only thing that bothered me, the level of detail in the SONAR. Should've just been basic outlines.

[Brem]

The only thing I wish could be changed is the scene where Bruce asks Alfred if he caught the bandit.

The whole scene was fine, but I didn't like the very quick cut they made to Harvey. I'm not talking once Alfred said they burnt the forest down they carry it on for a while but two or three seconds more with some brooding music.

I think it's the way the music started to pick up at that point that makes that very fast cut a bit of a bother for me.

[gwynplaine]

I wasn't to crazy about the scene where Dents dismantles the gun in court "maybe next time you should buy american". It felt fake to me.
Didn't like the two kids (nightwing ? Robin?:woot:) shooting cars with their fingers either. Other than that, pure awesomeness, greatest film ever (well in my top five at least).

[Kevin1169]

The only thing that annoyed me was the way the Batpod got turned around on the wall after it tangled up the semi.

[EmPiiRe x]

I wasn't to crazy about the scene where Dents dismantles the gun in court "maybe next time you should buy american". It felt fake to me.
Didn't like the two kids (nightwing ? Robin?:woot:) shooting cars with their fingers either. Other than that, pure awesomeness, greatest film ever (well in my top five at least).

and you'd think the mob in the country's largest city would be able to come up with a reliable firearm . . .

[Travesty]

I wasn't really a fan of the dinner scene. I actually thought Heath did a mediocre performance compared to the rest of his scenes.

I ddin't like how they used "and. here. we....go".

I still hate Bales Bat-voice in TDK. I actually really liked it in BB, but he went wayyyyy to far with it.

I didn't like how they used, "I like this job..I like it", instead of "I loveee this jobb".

I hated how Gary Oldmans British voice comes out in the rooftop scene, and why they didn't just re-shoot or do a voice over. Its pretty bad how much it comes out.


I hated how there really wasn't any strong fight between The Joker and Batman. I was really hoping for some acid-flower action, or something a tiny bit more Joker-ish with that scene. Nothing to big, but just something. I liked the crow-bar, but I wanted a Joker gag.


I think thats about it. I love the movie, and these dont really piss me off that much, it just kinda gets me when I see them.

[cokebabies]

I hated how there really wasn't any strong fight between The Joker and Batman. I was really hoping for some acid-flower action, or something a tiny bit more Joker-ish with that scene. Nothing to big, but just something. I liked the crow-bar, but I wanted a Joker gag.

The Joker using the acid flower would have been awful.

[Anita18]

The only thing I wish could be changed is the scene where Bruce asks Alfred if he caught the bandit.

The whole scene was fine, but I didn't like the very quick cut they made to Harvey. I'm not talking once Alfred said they burnt the forest down they carry it on for a while but two or three seconds more with some brooding music.

I think it's the way the music started to pick up at that point that makes that very fast cut a bit of a bother for me.
I actually liked the fast cut a lot. It's jarring, but it emphasizes that Dent is part of the collateral damage.

I hated how Gary Oldmans British voice comes out in the rooftop scene, and why they didn't just re-shoot or do a voice over. Its pretty bad how much it comes out.
Did you notice how Gary paused for a moment mid-line, waiting for Aaron to "interrupt?" :oldrazz: I didn't notice the accent slipping, though.

[ND Irish]

I wasn't really a fan of the dinner scene. I actually thought Heath did a mediocre performance compared to the rest of his scenes.


what dinner scene are you talkin about here? my memory might be a lil off today...
the fundraiser at waynes? If so I thought that was incredible & nowhere near 'mediocre'

[Mr. Earle]

Did you notice how Gary paused for a moment mid-line, waiting for Aaron to "interrupt?" :oldrazz: I didn't notice the accent slipping, though.That was so obvious. Why didnt they shoot that part again? And yeah, Gary's accent came out there.
I actually liked the fast cut a lot. It's jarring, but it emphasizes that Dent is part of the collateral damage.Oh come on, must people always attribute the flaws of TDK to a higher, deeper cause?

I am curious what was the deeper meaning that came across when Nolan didnt explain what happened to the party when Batman jumped off the window and instead cut to the next scene.

[Anita18]

That was so obvious. Why didnt they shoot that part again? And yeah, Gary's accent came out there.

Oh come on, must people always attribute the flaws of TDK to a higher, deeper cause?

I am curious what was the deeper meaning that came across when Nolan didnt explain what happened to the party when Batman jumped off the window and instead cut to the next scene.
I dunno, I didn't notice Gary's pause until my second or third viewing, and I still don't hear the accent. :oldrazz:

And I wouldn't consider attributing its flaws to a "higher, deeper cause," but at least a more internal one. Like Stephen Colbert says, "from the gut." :hehe: I can see why people would have issues with the pacing because it's incredibly fast, but I personally loved it, and I'm attempting to explain why. It's not like I'll be able to change anybody's preferences, but maybe it'll be more clear as to why the filmmakers made the decisions they did.

[Mr. Earle]

I dunno, I didn't notice Gary's pause until my second or third viewing, and I still don't hear the accent. :oldrazz:

And I wouldn't consider attributing its flaws to a "higher, deeper cause," but at least a more internal one. Like Stephen Colbert says, "from the gut." :hehe: I can see why people would have issues with the pacing because it's incredibly fast, but I personally loved it, and I'm attempting to explain why. It's not like I'll be able to change anybody's preferences, but maybe it'll be more clear as to why the filmmakers made the decisions they did.
I think that it was clear that the forest was people's privacy and rights. That's the line batman crossed to get to the joker. So after the forest line, i dont see how suddenly cutting to Dent can serve anything more than:
1) Shaving seconds off the huge screentime
2) Scaring the audience a bit
3) Giving the audience the feel of Dent's sudden surge of pain as he woke up.

After the forest line, suddenly cutting to Dent doesnt mean that he is the forest. Furthermore, i enjoy it a lot when things are implied and there are symbolisms all over the place, but getting to analyse a sudden cut....well i think that it would be overreading. TDK had enough symbolisms in it for me to search under rocks.

[Anita18]

I think that it was clear that the forest was people's privacy and rights. That's the line batman crossed to get to the joker. So after the forest line, i dont see how suddenly cutting to Dent can serve anything more than:
1) Shaving seconds off the huge screentime
2) Scaring the audience a bit
3) Giving the audience the feel of Dent's sudden surge of pain as he woke up.

After the forest line, suddenly cutting to Dent doesnt mean that he is the forest. Furthermore, i enjoy it a lot when things are implied and there are symbolisms all over the place, but getting to analyse a sudden cut....well i think that it would be overreading. TDK had enough symbolisms in it for me to search under rocks.
Just because it isn't the obvious symbolism, it's still true that the cut could mean that Dent could part of the burning forest. And you just said you like when things were implied. :cwink:

And I like analyzing things. :hehe: I just read an analytical blog post that mentioned how the Joker liked using time and countdowns in his tests.

[batman11]

Oh come on, must people always attribute the flaws of TDK to a higher, deeper cause?

I'm just curious as to how you can claim that the quick cut is an actual flaw. It was clearly done for a reason. If Nolan wanted to linger on Alfred for a second longer he would have, but instead, he decided to make a quick jerk of a cut, which can be interpreted in several ways. While I may look at it as a cool tactic to reel the audience into Dent's sudden rebirth, Anita may look at in terms of symbolism, but by no means is this a flaw.

Unless of course Nolan comes out and says the Avid skipped in the rendering process, thus making the cut too fast for the taste of some fans. Then it would be a technical mistake due to software malfunctioning. :o

[Paste Pot Pete]

The only issues I had were these -

-the end of the party scene was pretty jarring. I didn't like how Joker just disappeared, or how Harvey simply reappeared later.

-the Joker emerging from his cell with the cop as his prisoner. I got that "something" happened to turn the tables in that cell, and I understand that Nolan doesn't feel the need to show everything, but something about it just felt weird. It really felt like there was a scene missing in between.

My biggest little annoyance though was in the final Two-Face confrontation. As Batman lunges at Two-Face, the Batman theme picks up in a way that made it seem like it was the beginning of a climactic action scene. You know that musical cue, the one that usually heralds the start of a fight/action scene. Because of this, I was expecting the two to tumble down and start fighting. I was a little shocked and disappointed when it ended so abruptly with Harvey's dead body laying there.

[deathfromabove]

I was a little shocked and disappointed when it ended so abruptly with Harvey's dead body laying there.

hmmmm, i wonder why they did that?

:cwink:

[Lemenbolle]

I wasn't to crazy about the scene where Dents dismantles the gun in court "maybe next time you should buy american". It felt fake to me.
Oh, yes.

And I would like at least one ferry to blow up. Not for the need to see it, but just, because that's what would have happened..The way it went in the film was so in the style of a happy ending, but most people didn't expect that.

And the SWAT car guy going "Uh-oh, this is no good!".

[Two-Face=Badass]

The Joker using the acid flower would have been awful.
How? I thought the acid flower would've been one of the best Joker things in the movie. Plus, it would be one of the darkest scenes in the film, certainly the darkest death.

[Mr. Earle]

How? I thought the acid flower would've been one of the best Joker things in the movie. Plus, it would be one of the darkest scenes in the film, certainly the darkest death.
I think that the implied murders the joker commited in TDK were far darker. And i dont mean the stories. I mean giving the two thugs two sharp pieces of a pool to fight each other to the death. Putting his knife in Gambol's mouth had me watching with eyes half closed. Brian Douglas' murder, the hanged copycat (or was that Brian as well?), burning Lau alive. Pretty hardcore and cold stuff right? Now an acid squirting flower wouldnt have been as cold, not to mention that its been done before thousands of times. Its a good thing that Nolan came up with his own Joker jokes. Like the pencil trick.

[Spyder07]

Just because it isn't the obvious symbolism, it's still true that the cut could mean that Dent could part of the burning forest. And you just said you like when things were implied. :cwink:

And I like analyzing things. :hehe: I just read an analytical blog post that mentioned how the Joker liked using time and countdowns in his tests.

The fast cut reminded me of the fast cut in The Prestige when Cutter(alfred) tells Angier about the guy who was drowning and angier says "yes, you told me he said it was like going home" and Cutter tells him "i lied, it was agony" and they make a fast cut to Borden.

1. This is obviously Nolan style of quick cutting.
2. The story has to do with all the characters and the conflicts going on.
3. Nolan can come up with some great anecdotes

[JaD]

That was so obvious. Why didnt they shoot that part again? And yeah, Gary's accent came out there.

I dunno, I didn't notice Gary's pause until my second or third viewing, and I still don't hear the accent. :oldrazz:He's most likely talking about the line, "All that was left in the vaults were mahked bills!!! They knew we were coming!!!"

It's possible that it was his English accent. But also, a friend's college roommate is from Chicago and speaks like that too. So he may have just been doing the Chicago talk you know? Dropping the "R's" (Car = Cah etc)

I also heard the accent went he was screaming in the prison, "Stand away!!! All of you!!!"

[Mr. Earle]

"All that was left in the vaults were mahked bills!!! They knew we were coming!!!" "Stand away!!! All of you!!!"
Those and "They knew we were cHoming!"

Anyway, it wasnt so bad. The worst part was dent waiting to get interrupted. Or was it vise versa? Whatever.

PS: Dude JaD, nice avy! Batman and Scarecrow shooting up the gas and facing off?

[RachelDawes]

Just a couple things:

1. After watching TDK for the first time, I was a little disappointed that Two-Face's origin had been changed. He has one of the most epic origins in all of supervillain history (okay, maybe that's a slight exaggeration) and we've never seen it done justice on the big screen.

I know that Nolan referenced it in Dent's court scene early in the movie, so that would have to be altered somehow. I would've introduced Dent in the courtroom but had something different - yet equally as cool as an assassination attempt - happen, and then I would've had Dent avoid being scarred in the warehouse explosion when Batman saved him. Then, Dent would be heartbroken because Rachel was dead but he would still be trying to put the mobsters away, but one of Maroni's henchmen would've got him with acid during the trial. *That* would've put him over the edge and turned him into Two-Face.

2. The only other thing I would've changed would be to have Bruce, Dent, and Gordon mourn a little more over Rachel's death. As it was, I thought Bruce especially got over her a little too quickly. Her death would've had more emotional resonance if we could've seen how deeply it effected everyone who knew her.

I'm well aware that adding my scenes would've pushed the movie to three hours, but we can never get enough Batman, Joker, and Two-Face now can we? :grin:

[Mr. Earle]

Just a couple things:

1. After watching TDK for the first time, I was a little disappointed that Two-Face's origin had been changed. He has one of the most epic origins in all of supervillain history (okay, maybe that's a slight exaggeration) and we've never seen it done justice on the big screen.
Oh come on, how can you day this, didnt you see Batman Forever? :hehe::hehe::grin::grin:

As it was, I thought Bruce especially got over her a little too quickly. Her death would've had more emotional resonance if we could've seen how deeply it effected everyone who knew her.And here we go.....again! In b4 a thousand posts.

[I Am The Knight]

BF was pretty faithful in that regard, the Two-Face origin. Even though you can clearly see the acid (or was it grape juice) spilling ALL OVER his face, not just the right side :hehe:

[Two-Face=Badass]

The main thing I'd change is Two-Face's death To me he was the PERFECT set up for the next movie, killing off mob and thus causing the freaks to take over, and leaving Bats alone with no one to truly have hope for. And then comes Dick Grayson *ducks the bricks* and oyu know the rest. But even if it doesn't have Robin for me it would be the perfect set up. So basically i'd give him a Dark Victory style "death", them being as sure as they can be of his death without finding the body. It ends the same way, but the next one all the heroics are sadly undone by Dent's return, causing the city to lose all hope until Bats steps up to take that place.

[Mr. Earle]

The main thing I'd change is Two-Face's death To me he was the PERFECT set up for the next movie, killing off mob and thus causing the freaks to take over, and leaving Bats alone with no one to truly have hope for. And then comes Dick Grayson *ducks the bricks* and oyu know the rest. But even if it doesn't have Robin for me it would be the perfect set up. So basically i'd give him a Dark Victory style "death", them being as sure as they can be of his death without finding the body. It ends the same way, but the next one all the heroics are sadly undone by Dent's return, causing the city to lose all hope until Bats steps up to take that place.
Niiice! I like it!
I just dont know any interesting stories about Two-Face and thus i dont know whether i'd like him in the next movie. Not that there havent been any good stories about him, but i really cant see him as serious a threat as the joker was in TDK. Just another mob boss or a freak tearing **** up. But not as threatening as the joker was. He will look inferior. And i also dont know whether he can be used to symbolise something just like the other villains in the Nolan movie. Besides, we already know him, and a new movie always has to bring new things to the table.

I believe that the next movie needs to top this one, just like TDK did with Begins. They should introduce a good love interest (Talia or Catwoman) and a serious mega-villain. But i really dont know who.
The Riddler? I dont know what you guys find in him apart from his delicious riddles.
The penguin? Only as a secondary villain.
Scarface? Pah-lease!
Clayface? Maybe, but knowing Nolan....

What about Hush?
-Bruce, i am a friend of yours from your childhood years.
-Uh... dont remember you. Rachel was my childhood friend!
-Come on bruce... BBF! Oh SNAP i secretly hate you now because your father saved my mother!
-Dude! Who the hell are you?
-Hahaha! Thats so...bruce!

[FhFgJg]

The only thing I would have changed would be I would have possibly alluded to other villains in the future.

[gwynplaine]

Maybe add a scene between the Joker and Scarecrow, nah, I'm just being greedy, it was perfect the way it was.

[KalMart]

I liked how the updated suit worked for the movie itself, and it was an improvement over BB's one...especially since Bale was slimmer and didn't look at stocky/short, and his cheeks didn't bunch up as much with the mask on. I think the more free-moving neck area also helped keep things in proportion, but it all was a bit too future-warrior, and they kept the ears curved-in like the last movie which still looks a bit too goofy. Overall, it did work well in the shadows and especially riding the batpod. But...the TDK mask, as it was on the BB one, was still to egg-shaped. As in the first movie, it didn't take away from the movie enough to kill the enjoyment. I just think some straighter ears would have given things a better overall impact....

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5750/batearsiu9.jpg

[Wesley Dodds]

Two-Face should've actually been a second violent personality as opposed to just a pissed off Harvey Dent.

[hegele]

I'm not asking about major changes, like "perm-white Joker" (or, post that if you really want i guess). I'm asking for aspects within the film that you would have tweaked for a more satisfying experience. Also, I want to point out again that i loved TDK, i'm a huge film buff all around and TDK is still my favorite film of the year.

1. Video Game Sonar view
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/2778158698_53abd96cfa.jpg
The only moment that takes me out of the film. I really hate the sonar vision. I don't hate the idea that Batman uses sonar while Foxx runs the program, it's kind of cool and reminds me of of the oricle a bit. I just hate how he can pan up and down like a video game, how you can see shadows and facial features, how the camera glides in and out with ease.

If i could change it: the angle will never move away from Batman's vision and would look like actual sonar or even the Predator view. Anything is better.

2. Batman's gruffy voice
It didn't bother me at all in Batman Begins, but from seemingly the first scene in The Dark Knight, with the Hockey-pads line, it was just off. The cresendo of course being THe line "This city just showed you its full of people ready to believe in goooooood!" It really annoyed me when i watched it with a group of friends who just couldn't look past it.

If i could change it: i would have ADR work done and match it almost in the deep whisper Keaton had in Batman, the best Bat-voice, IMO.

3. Rachel...
Don't get me wrong, i think Maggie is a huge improvement over Holmes, but my God, are we supposed to like this character? Two scenes bugged me.

1. After Harvey avoids a fatal gunshot, she smiles, clenching his arm, "If your not getting shot at your not doing your job right!" She laughs. "I'm glad you are taking it so well Rachel..." I'm sorry, but wasn't her ex-boyfriend an Assistant D.A. who got SHOT IN THE BACK in Batman Begins? Whats wrong with this girl? Does she get off on this stuff? Would a normal person who react that way? Also, i think the scene where she accepts Bruces kiss and says "what kind of a live do you think they'll let us have together?" makes me dislike her. I know its a conflict for her, but seeing the **** Harv goes through for her as well as the revenge he gets as Two-Face in her name makes me wonder why this gal is even worth it. You might say it makes her more three-dimensional as a character, maybe you are right, but it doesn't change my opinion of her.

If I could change it: i would get rid/change the first scene and change the second scene to: Bruce leans in to kiss, she puts her hand in his cheeck but rejects. She asks "what kind of life do you think this city will let you have if you turn yourself in."

4. The fall from Wayne's Penthouse/Joker's Escape
Look, i'm not dumb. I can guess what happened. Batman puts one wing out, breaks their fall by having Rachel land on top of them. I also don't need the joker's escape spelled out for us, but i do think the pacing is off in that scene, as well as its transition to Gordon in MCU. Having Batman in almost no pain after that huge drop with extra weight diffuse the impact of his fall after dropping Harvey at the end. Are we supposed to belive he might be hurt after that? Come on, he survived the fall from the penthouse!

If I could change it: Have Batman use a grappling hook on the building as the fall, it connects, they swing toward the building, batman holds Rachel out, having his back hit a window. They go flying through into an empty room (maybe a bedroom, landing on a bed for comedic effect). Also, have the scene that was in the script of Joker and his men leaving before Batman could come back.

5. Two-Faces Voice
Simply, i think having Eckhart's voice practically the same after his burning is a huge mistake. I think it lowers the visual effect, we all know he wouldn't talk the same. Put your finger and stretch out one of your cheeks and talk. That alone sounds very different. Having his voice the same not only diminishes the effects work by making it all the more evident the whole effect was done in post, it also diminishes the event itself. He sounds exactly the same, if he didn't, i think it would help build the believabilty in his transformation.

if i could change it: Avoid ADR work, his on set line delivery is imprtant, just gruffle the voice more in post.

[Anita18]

5. Two-Faces Voice
Simply, i think having Eckhart's voice practically the same after his burning is a huge mistake. I think it lowers the visual effect, we all know he wouldn't talk the same. Put your finger and stretch out one of your cheeks and talk. That alone sounds very different. Having his voice the same not only diminishes the effects work by making it all the more evident the whole effect was done in post, it also diminishes the event itself. He sounds exactly the same, if he didn't, i think it would help build the believabilty in his transformation.

if i could change it: Avoid ADR work, his on set line delivery is imprtant, just gruffle the voice more in post.
Dent doesn't sound exactly the same as Two-Face - he actually sounds a little more gruff. :oldrazz:

Nolan doesn't like ADR. The only stuff they absolutely had to ADR was the Joker goons in the prologue because they were talking under the masks, in addition with the IMAX camera flapping away. I highly doubt they ADR'd Eckhart as Two-Face, especially since his face WAS entirely intact during the whole shoot. :funny: I don't even think he's in any IMAX shots either, so they wouldn't have had to loop to hide the sound of the camera. Fichtner and Ledger's lines in the prologue were recorded live.

[Brem]

I actually liked the fast cut a lot. It's jarring, but it emphasizes that Dent is part of the collateral damage.


Did you notice how Gary paused for a moment mid-line, waiting for Aaron to "interrupt?" :oldrazz: I didn't notice the accent slipping, though.

That's a good point. After watching it a few times I don't mind it as much. The sort of build up in the music bothers me slightly, since it sounded like it'd go into something but then cut straight off.

But I can appreciate that it's giving you Alfred's and Bruce's view then Harvey's. The way it cuts to Harvey as well, him suddenly waking up helps the cut work as well since it's a bit of a jolt. Hopefully that makes sense.

[Jokey]

Remove the Reese plotline.

I know we would have to exclude the Joker hospital scene, but I'm sure they could find a way to make that still work. The plot was a little busy, and narrowing it down to the essential core story would have been better, IMO.

[Cory]

After watching it for the first time in a few months, the party scene ... "your gonna love me" is so fast its like wtf did he say?

[RachelDawes]

A few more things:

1. It would have been nice if Nolan could've somehow shown how Bruce knew that the Joker was coming for Harvey. It's not a big deal, but that plot hole irritates me. They just could've had a scene before the party where Bruce talks with his building's security and they offer to call him if there's any trouble. Or they could've shown him ducking into the bat panic room after Rachel left him and have him listen in on police radio.

2. A scene between Harvey and the Joker would've been awesome. Not Two-Face and the Joker, but Harvey and him. I don't know when it would've taken place though.

3. Instead of killing Richard Harvey and Patrick Dent, the Joker should've killed Richard James and Patrick Gordon. It would've made Gordon's plan to fake his own death more believable. As it was, it's never really established why Gordon thinks his family is in danger. I know it's because he's the head of MCU, but it's rough to put your family through that kind of trauma if you're not absolutely certain you're going to be a victim.

[Drizzle]

Two-Face should've actually been a second violent personality as opposed to just a pissed off Harvey Dent.
Well, you don't just magically become a schizophrenic.

[Mr. Earle]

Remove the Reese plotline.

I know we would have to exclude the Joker hospital scene, but I'm sure they could find a way to make that still work. The plot was a little busy, and narrowing it down to the essential core story would have been better, IMO.
No way man! The Reese plot had two very important points to send across.
1) The joker doesnt want to live without batman.
2) Batman is willing to save Reese even though he would rat him out.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5750/batearsiu9.jpgSorry man, this looks bad. I like the original most.

[Mr. Earle]

2. Batman's gruffy voice
It didn't bother me at all in Batman Begins, but from seemingly the first scene in The Dark Knight, with the Hockey-pads line, it was just off. The cresendo of course being THe line "This city just showed you its full of people ready to believe in goooooood!" It really annoyed me when i watched it with a group of friends who just couldn't look past it.

If i could change it: i would have ADR work done and match it almost in the deep whisper Keaton had in Batman, the best Bat-voice, IMO.
IMHO, Batman doesnt whisper. Nolan has got it right. Batman should sound like a monster. I go back and watch BTAS, and even god almight Kevin Conroy isnt good enough anymore. Dont get me wrong, his voice is godly, but he needs to growl more as batman.
That said, its true that Bale's voice isnt perfect. I dont think that many people have the voice to pull that growl off. Nolan tried to use soundmagic on his voice to improve it, but in many occasions he failed. "Hockey pads" and "deep down, everyone's exactly as you" are FAIL.

I agree with you on (3) and (4). The fall could have been a lot better than the -now signature for Nolan- fall on top of a car. "Hurr hurr he has a superpower. Cars magically appear at the exact spot where he is going to land and act like pillows". It was good in Begins, but its getting too much. Especially when Rachel survives the fall. The grapple gun solution would have been a lot better.
And as for Rachel, watch the party scene again. When Bruce is making his speech about Dent, Dent tries to hug Rachel by offering his hand. She refuses. I suppose its because she is pissed at Bruce, but it makes her look obnoxious.

[KalMart]

Sorry man, this looks bad. I like the original most.

Well, it was only about a two-minute manip, but just something to take away that cone-heady look....kinda' like a hamster's head. Unfortunately, it looks the worst from the front.....

BB
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/18/batman_begins_big_051018100848275_wideweb__300x371 ,1.jpg

TDK
http://www.gossipsauce.com/files/batman_milk_main.jpg

[Carmine Falcone]

I'm sorry, but this thread shows why most of you are not screenwriters. This for example:


I know that Nolan referenced it in Dent's court scene early in the movie, so that would have to be altered somehow. I would've introduced Dent in the courtroom but had something different - yet equally as cool as an assassination attempt - happen, and then I would've had Dent avoid being scarred in the warehouse explosion when Batman saved him. Then, Dent would be heartbroken because Rachel was dead but he would still be trying to put the mobsters away, but one of Maroni's henchmen would've got him with acid during the trial. *That* would've put him over the edge and turned him into Two-Face.


Ridiculous.

[Mr. Earle]

Well, it was only about a two-minute manip, but just something to take away that cone-heady look....kinda' like a hamster's head. Unfortunately, it looks the worst from the front.....

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/18/batman_begins_big_051018100848275_wideweb__300x371 ,1.jpg http://www.gossipsauce.com/files/batman_milk_main.jpg
The Begins cowl was shaped like a cone indeed much to my confusion. The TDK one is a vast improvement and the "realistic" batears suit it well.

The slimmer and totally vertical ears would work if the cowl was slim (like the comics or the Schumacher ones).

[KalMart]

The Begins cowl was shaped like a cone indeed much to my confusion. The TDK one is a vast improvement and the "realistic" batears suit it well.

The slimmer and totally vertical ears would work if the cowl was slim (like the comics or the Schumacher ones).
I think the narrower/more maneuverable neck definitely helped, but still, the egg-shape is there towards the top. I actually think the BB/TDK cowl was slimmer to the head/face than the older versions overall. It's just that moving the ears up and inwards might have accentuated the roundness of the sides a bit too much. They could have made the ears point just a little straighter.


http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8417/2batsanv4.jpg


http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2079/signaleu9.jpg

[Mr. Earle]

He looks like a devil, not a bat. Try making them longer please. Lets try that. Long and straight. Maybe that will work.

[KalMart]

He looks like a devil, not a bat. Try making them longer please. Lets try that. Long and straight. Maybe that will work.

I actually prefer the ears a little shorter, at least in comic versions...kinda like in this random pic I found....

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6702/decobatman06mf4.png

But nah...I'm not really going to bother manipping any more. It doesn't really matter because despite my not liking the cowl/ears, it didn't take away too much from the movie. It was just the wide difference as to how good it looked from the side as opposed to more straight-on. But again, definitely better than BB's.


Edit: actually, here he is with basically the Clooney/Kilmer ears...a bit too long and cartoonish for me....

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6087/pointershg1.jpg

[Rolf]

A few Excelent ideas I had:

1) The Joker would have had white skin, not makeup.

2) The Joker would be more colorful...
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4066/colorfuljoker2bh9.png (http://imageshack.us/)

3) The Joker's thugs would all look like this:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7321/fsr15141ldu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/)

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."

5) The Joker would sound like a complete idiot when he lectured people on his anarchist philosophy.

6) The Joker would make freequent Jokes.

7) Katie Holmes would play Rachel Dawes.

8) Batman would have his lenses throughout the entire movie after getting his new suit.

9) Gotham City would look more like it did in Gotham Knight.

10) The Scarecrow would wear classy Victorian cloths and a bowler hat.

11) All six episodes of Gotham Tonight would play before the actual film started.

12) Everyone who had participated in the Whysoserious.com scavenger hunts would be cast as the Joker's thugs.

13) Everyone who had participated in Harvey Dent's "Campaign" would be cast as regular civillians.

14) Everyone who had participated in "Operation Slipknot" would be cast as Policemen.

15) The room in which the Joker filmed Brian's excecution would be covered with purple curtains

16) Everyone who received CFB swag (including shirts) would be cast as fake Batmen.

17) Batman would borrow some of Scarecrow's fear gas for use in his interrogation of the Joker.

18) Crispus Allen would appear, played by Will Smith.

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

21) A reference or two would be made to the events of Gotham Knight.

22) Slightly extended courtroom scenes.

23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.

24) Not nesicarily part of TDK, but Rachel Dawes would come back to life as the Phantasm.

25) There would be some dialoge between Alfred and The Joker.

26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

27) Wayne Manor would already have been rebuilt and the Batcave improved to fit in with the Gotham Knight continuity.

28) Fear would still be the main theme.

29) The next villains would be forshadowed.

30) The words "To be continued" would appear at the beginning of the End Credits, suggesting that they are going to make a series next.

That is all for now, but it is a two hour movie, I am sure I could find other things.

What do you guys think?

[Killer Queen77]

And off you go again! ;)

[baronghede]

A few Excelent ideas I had:

1) The Joker would have had white skin, not makeup.

2) The Joker would be more colorful...
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4066/colorfuljoker2bh9.png (http://imageshack.us/)

3) The Joker's thugs would all look like this:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7321/fsr15141ldu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/)

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."

5) The Joker would sound like a complete idiot when he lectured people on his anarchist philosophy.

6) The Joker would make freequent Jokes.

7) Katie Holmes would play Rachel Dawes.

8) Batman would have his lenses throughout the entire movie after getting his new suit.

9) Gotham City would look more like it did in Gotham Knight.

10) The Scarecrow would wear classy Victorian cloths and a bowler hat.

11) All six episodes of Gotham Tonight would play before the actual film started.

12) Everyone who had participated in the Whysoserious.com scavenger hunts would be cast as the Joker's thugs.

13) Everyone who had participated in Harvey Dent's "Campaign" would be cast as regular civillians.

14) Everyone who had participated in "Operation Slipknot" would be cast as Policemen.

15) The room in which the Joker filmed Brian's excecution would be covered with purple curtains

16) Everyone who received CFB swag (including shirts) would be cast as fake Batmen.

17) Batman would borrow some of Scarecrow's fear gas for use in his interrogation of the Joker.

18) Crispus Allen would appear, played by Will Smith.

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

21) A reference or two would be made to the events of Gotham Knight.

22) Slightly extended courtroom scenes.

23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.

24) Not nesicarily part of TDK, but Rachel Dawes would come back to life as the Phantasm.

25) There would be some dialoge between Alfred and The Joker.

26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

27) Wayne Manor would already have been rebuilt and the Batcave improved to fit in with the Gotham Knight continuity.

28) Fear would still be the main theme.

29) The next villains would be forshadowed.

30) The words "To be continued" would appear at the beginning of the End Credits, suggesting that they are going to make a series next.

That is all for now, but it is a two hour movie, I am sure I could find other things.

What do you guys think?

Are you 14?

[Symbiotic]

Rolf, respectfully, I find your ideas to be horrible.

[Rolf]

Rolf, respectfully, I find your ideas to be horrible.

All of them?

[Dark Sentinel]

there are a couple shots that I felt couldve been held a little longer: one is when Alfred smiles after Bruce gives him his "We all know how much you like to say 'I told you so'" line, right before they cut to the courtroom. Another is at Bruce's party when they applaud Dent..just a second longer on the clap would have been perfect

[Symbiotic]

All of them?A good 27 of 'em anyway.

[I Am The Knight]

A few Excelent ideas I had:

1) The Joker would have had white skin, not makeup.

2) The Joker would be more colorful...
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4066/colorfuljoker2bh9.png (http://imageshack.us/)

3) The Joker's thugs would all look like this:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7321/fsr15141ldu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/)

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."

5) The Joker would sound like a complete idiot when he lectured people on his anarchist philosophy.

6) The Joker would make freequent Jokes.

7) Katie Holmes would play Rachel Dawes.

8) Batman would have his lenses throughout the entire movie after getting his new suit.

9) Gotham City would look more like it did in Gotham Knight.

10) The Scarecrow would wear classy Victorian cloths and a bowler hat.

11) All six episodes of Gotham Tonight would play before the actual film started.

12) Everyone who had participated in the Whysoserious.com scavenger hunts would be cast as the Joker's thugs.

13) Everyone who had participated in Harvey Dent's "Campaign" would be cast as regular civillians.

14) Everyone who had participated in "Operation Slipknot" would be cast as Policemen.

15) The room in which the Joker filmed Brian's excecution would be covered with purple curtains

16) Everyone who received CFB swag (including shirts) would be cast as fake Batmen.

17) Batman would borrow some of Scarecrow's fear gas for use in his interrogation of the Joker.

18) Crispus Allen would appear, played by Will Smith.

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

21) A reference or two would be made to the events of Gotham Knight.

22) Slightly extended courtroom scenes.

23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.

24) Not nesicarily part of TDK, but Rachel Dawes would come back to life as the Phantasm.

25) There would be some dialoge between Alfred and The Joker.

26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

27) Wayne Manor would already have been rebuilt and the Batcave improved to fit in with the Gotham Knight continuity.

28) Fear would still be the main theme.

29) The next villains would be forshadowed.

30) The words "To be continued" would appear at the beginning of the End Credits, suggesting that they are going to make a series next.

That is all for now, but it is a two hour movie, I am sure I could find other things.

What do you guys think?

You're an idiot. Please don't come back to this site ever again.

[Rolf]

A good 27 of 'em anyway.

And the other 3?

[Boom]

-Get rid of the annoying SWAT guy riding with Gordon in the van.
-Omit the sonar cellphone plot device in the third act.
-Change Batman's voice.
-Change Batman's suit to something grittier and less robotic and high tech.

[Symbiotic]

And the other 3?Not horrible, but unneccesary.

[sarg2k]

Rolf is there anything in the film you did like?

[Rolf]

Rolf is there anything in the film you did like?

Anything that was not changed on that list...

[EHTNAMTAB]

The only things I'd change are in Act III:

*The "I know how you got these line" is pretty badly delivered, and not helped by an extreme close up of the blades, makingit a bit unintentioanlly funny. i think it has the effect of someone firing a nerf gun at the side of an unwilling victimns head.

*The overly fussy hostage, doctor, clown prewitt building stuff. Although the location (an empty, deserted skyscrpaer) has grown on me ( i was hoping for a hall of mirrors showdown) the stuff before the joker fight is a bit clunky and gets in the way.

*the jokers last shot, of him wobbling around in front of camera then an abrupt cut. It would have been nicer to fade from the shot of the upsidedown joker to two face, and have the joker's laughter fade out - hence underlying the transition of threat.

*gordon never enquires with batman what happened to the joker. i know his family had been threatened but still. i think harvey would have liked to have known too. In fact, oddly, very few scenes in the film refer to a previous scene.

*some people have said that awesome as ledger was (he was) his perfromance never builds to any one moment - i disagree. i think when the ferries fail to blow up we see the true joker, in a moment of confusion and dissappointment, then anger. However, this could have been drawn out a bit, the whole "you're alone" thing - well so is batman - should have been embellished. Think the end of the Killing Joke.

*another thing - why didnt batman try to find dent in the prewitt biulding?????? he had no reason to think he was elsewhere

*the whole "batman saving the joker's life" thing was fudged. It seems in this scene batman either - a) wants to distrct the joker to get the detonator, then saves his life or b)wants to kill the joker then has second thoughts. which was it???? it should have been made clear. batman should have been frothing mental at the joker (rachel, dent etc) or made a point of reminding himself (and the audience) that he will still not kill. It's as though, again, previous scenes had been forgotten.

still, very good film

[Cunning Stunts]

All of them?

What a troll... Yes, all of them were bad, dude. What the hell were you thinking when you typed that up?

Please tell me you're just effin' with us.

[RakuMon]

I mentioned this in another thread, but the only thing I'd change would be the scene where Batman and Rachel plunge 40 stories from the top of a penthouse unharmed. Of all the scenes in the movie, that one requires the most suspension of disbelief. I would have preferred he used his grappling gun to stop their fall. It also makes it ridiculous that they could survive a 40-story fall while Dent couldn't survive a forty-feet fall.

[Cunning Stunts]

I mentioned this in another thread, but the only thing I'd change would be the scene where Batman and Rachel plunge 40 stories from the top of a penthouse unharmed. Of all the scenes in the movie, that one requires the most suspension of disbelief. I would have preferred he used his grappling gun to stop their fall. It also makes it ridiculous that they could survive a 40-story fall while Dent couldn't survive a forty-feet fall.

I wondered about the fall too, but after looking, I noticed that he DOES deploy one half of the cape as a parachute. Not only that, but a suit designed to stop bullets will likely have a good amount of impact protection.

That said, I do still agree that it was a bit of a stretch for Batman and Rachel to be 100% unscathed. I also never understood why she asks, "Is Harvey okay?" when she WATCHED what Bruce did to Harvey, and was present with The Joker the entire time, up until her fall.

[Travesty]

-Change Bales Bat-voice

-Change the Bat-suit to look like a Bat-suit, and not a Lego-Batman suit.

-Don't skip from scene to scene so fast, let some things sink in for a second.

-Dont have Batman running around during the day, or around brightly lit areas.(Where did his Ninja training go?).

-Change the Bat-suit

-Show more of Joker, and have him use more sinister jokes.

-Take out Two-Face, and only show the build up to him, so he could be the main villain in the Third movie.

-Change the Bat-suit

-Make Gotham City look like it did in Begins, you know, like Gotham City.

-Make Gary Oldmen do a voice over on the roof scene, cause his accent is coming out STRONG.

-Change the Bat-suit

-Change the actor who did Gambol, cause he did a horrible job.

-Change the SWAT actors, cause they also did a horrible job.

-And one other thing, I just can't remember....oh yeah! Change the Bat-suit.

[Rolf]

What a troll... Yes, all of them were bad, dude. What the hell were you thinking when you typed that up?

Please tell me you're just effin' with us.

SOME of them were meant to be funny, but most are very serious.

[Cunning Stunts]

SOME of them were meant to be funny, but most are very serious.

And thus, I still stand by what I said.

[Angeloz]

There is the ignore option (real or via self control)...

Edited to add: It's a friendly suggestion for those tempted to attack others. I know it might be in vain.

Angeloz

[Cunning Stunts]

There is the ignore option (real or via self control)...

Angeloz

And if I ever decide to use it, you might be the first on that list.

[RachelDawes]

*another thing - why didnt batman try to find dent in the prewitt biulding?????? he had no reason to think he was elsewhere

Batman may have looked for him. All we see is him leaving the Joker hanging and then showing up later at the warehouse. It's also possible he called Fox and Fox informed him that he'd used the sonar device to track Dent there. He could've even followed the police Gordon sent to the warehouse to create a perimeter.

I mentioned this in another thread, but the only thing I'd change would be the scene where Batman and Rachel plunge 40 stories from the top of a penthouse unharmed. Of all the scenes in the movie, that one requires the most suspension of disbelief. I would have preferred he used his grappling gun to stop their fall. It also makes it ridiculous that they could survive a 40-story fall while Dent couldn't survive a forty-feet fall.

If Batman had tried to use the grappling gun I think his arm would've been ripped off.

[Anita18]

You're an idiot. Please don't come back to this site ever again.
Oh, come on. I :lmao:'ed.

:hehe:

[Bats]

Of those 30 posted, I think 31 of them are bad. The extra one being the idea for the post in general.

[Rolf]

Of those 30 posted, I think 31 of them are bad. The extra one being the idea for the post in general.

Come on now... That means nothing should be changed.

[Mr. Earle]

*The overly fussy hostage, doctor, clown prewitt building stuff. Although the location (an empty, deserted skyscrpaer) has grown on me ( i was hoping for a hall of mirrors showdown) the stuff before the joker fight is a bit clunky and gets in the way.

Yeah, lets copy the comics. Lets do nothing original.
*the whole "batman saving the joker's life" thing was fudged. It seems in this scene batman either - a) wants to distrct the joker to get the detonator, then saves his life or b)wants to kill the joker then has second thoughts. which was it???? it should have been made clear. batman should have been frothing mental at the joker (rachel, dent etc) or made a point of reminding himself (and the audience) that he will still not kill. It's as though, again, previous scenes had been forgotten.He did it because it was effective. He stunned the joker and hanged him upside down. I mentioned this in another thread, but the only thing I'd change would be the scene where Batman and Rachel plunge 40 stories from the top of a penthouse unharmed. Of all the scenes in the movie, that one requires the most suspension of disbelief. I would have preferred he used his grappling gun to stop their fall. It also makes it ridiculous that they could survive a 40-story fall while Dent couldn't survive a forty-feet fall.I wholeheartedly agree.
If Batman had tried to use the grappling gun I think his arm would've been ripped off.It has a mechanism that slows the deceleration. And anyway, it would make more sense than crashing on a car. What is Nolan's problem with car roofs anyway? Did one of them sleep with his wife? How many times does he have to show us a car roof crushed?

[ronny]

I would have made The Joker permawhite and not given him the cut smile.
That's about it.
Oh, and gave him short hair after he dresses as the cop. So he becomes more comic-like.
But that is the extent of what I would change. The movie is as close to perfect as a movie can be.

[Symbiotic]

Come on now... That means nothing should be changed.Because nothing should.

[Cory]

A few Excelent ideas I had:

1) The Joker would have had white skin, not makeup.

2) The Joker would be more colorful...
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4066/colorfuljoker2bh9.png (http://imageshack.us/)

3) The Joker's thugs would all look like this:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7321/fsr15141ldu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/)

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."

5) The Joker would sound like a complete idiot when he lectured people on his anarchist philosophy.

6) The Joker would make freequent Jokes.

7) Katie Holmes would play Rachel Dawes.

8) Batman would have his lenses throughout the entire movie after getting his new suit.

9) Gotham City would look more like it did in Gotham Knight.

10) The Scarecrow would wear classy Victorian cloths and a bowler hat.

11) All six episodes of Gotham Tonight would play before the actual film started.

12) Everyone who had participated in the Whysoserious.com scavenger hunts would be cast as the Joker's thugs.

13) Everyone who had participated in Harvey Dent's "Campaign" would be cast as regular civillians.

14) Everyone who had participated in "Operation Slipknot" would be cast as Policemen.

15) The room in which the Joker filmed Brian's excecution would be covered with purple curtains

16) Everyone who received CFB swag (including shirts) would be cast as fake Batmen.

17) Batman would borrow some of Scarecrow's fear gas for use in his interrogation of the Joker.

18) Crispus Allen would appear, played by Will Smith.

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

21) A reference or two would be made to the events of Gotham Knight.

22) Slightly extended courtroom scenes.

23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.

24) Not nesicarily part of TDK, but Rachel Dawes would come back to life as the Phantasm.

25) There would be some dialoge between Alfred and The Joker.

26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

27) Wayne Manor would already have been rebuilt and the Batcave improved to fit in with the Gotham Knight continuity.

28) Fear would still be the main theme.

29) The next villains would be forshadowed.

30) The words "To be continued" would appear at the beginning of the End Credits, suggesting that they are going to make a series next.

That is all for now, but it is a two hour movie, I am sure I could find other things.

What do you guys think?

I hope...REALLLLLY HOPE....you found this somewhere, and posted it as a joke...

god save this guy if he actually thought of this stuff.

[The Mighty Wind]

A few Excelent ideas I had:

1) The Joker would have had white skin, not makeup.

2) The Joker would be more colorful...
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4066/colorfuljoker2bh9.png (http://imageshack.us/)

3) The Joker's thugs would all look like this:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7321/fsr15141ldu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img222/fsr15141ldu6.jpg/1/)

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."

5) The Joker would sound like a complete idiot when he lectured people on his anarchist philosophy.

6) The Joker would make freequent Jokes.

7) Katie Holmes would play Rachel Dawes.

8) Batman would have his lenses throughout the entire movie after getting his new suit.

9) Gotham City would look more like it did in Gotham Knight.

10) The Scarecrow would wear classy Victorian cloths and a bowler hat.

11) All six episodes of Gotham Tonight would play before the actual film started.

12) Everyone who had participated in the Whysoserious.com scavenger hunts would be cast as the Joker's thugs.

13) Everyone who had participated in Harvey Dent's "Campaign" would be cast as regular civillians.

14) Everyone who had participated in "Operation Slipknot" would be cast as Policemen.

15) The room in which the Joker filmed Brian's excecution would be covered with purple curtains

16) Everyone who received CFB swag (including shirts) would be cast as fake Batmen.

17) Batman would borrow some of Scarecrow's fear gas for use in his interrogation of the Joker.

18) Crispus Allen would appear, played by Will Smith.

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

21) A reference or two would be made to the events of Gotham Knight.

22) Slightly extended courtroom scenes.

23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.

24) Not nesicarily part of TDK, but Rachel Dawes would come back to life as the Phantasm.

25) There would be some dialoge between Alfred and The Joker.

26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

27) Wayne Manor would already have been rebuilt and the Batcave improved to fit in with the Gotham Knight continuity.

28) Fear would still be the main theme.

29) The next villains would be forshadowed.

30) The words "To be continued" would appear at the beginning of the End Credits, suggesting that they are going to make a series next.

That is all for now, but it is a two hour movie, I am sure I could find other things.

What do you guys think?
Obvious troll has made himself obvious.

[SheldonLevene]

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."
23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.
26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

These are my favorite, they make me smile the most. I assume role of means roll off.

[Rolf]

I hope...REALLLLLY HOPE....you found this somewhere, and posted it as a joke...

god save this guy if he actually thought of this stuff.

I'm afraid that I did think of most of this by myself...

[Rolf]

4) The Joker's second catch-phrase would be "Ok Folks, time to hear some Jokes..."
23) The Scarecrow would say something along the lines of "Foiled Again" after being captured by Batman to reflect his complete descent into classical villainy.
26) Mr. Lau would role of the pile of money while no one was looking.

These are my favorite, they make me smile the most. I assume role of means roll off.

Thank you...

[The Mighty Wind]

Obvious troll has made himself obvious.
Once again folks.

[Clark Kent]

19) I was origionally going to say that Sean Bean should have been saved for another role, but he was actually perfect in this movie.

:confused:.

20) Harvey Dent would claim to be a Republican, after he becomes Two-Face however he would be a Republican AND a Democrat.:hehe:

:hehe:.

[Anita18]

To be serious, the only thing I would change for sure is how the Pruitt building set piece was staged. I had to watch it like, 5 times on my computer to figure out exactly what the heck was going on, especially in terms of geography. :funny: Nolan tends to shoot fight scenes very close, which wasn't as much of an issue in the other fight scenes because Batman wasn't jumping floors and running through numerous groups of people. :oldrazz:

[chintai80]

To be serious, the only thing I would change for sure is how the Pruitt building set piece was staged. I had to watch it like, 5 times on my computer to figure out exactly what the heck was going on, especially in terms of geography. :funny: Nolan tends to shoot fight scenes very close, which wasn't as much of an issue in the other fight scenes because Batman wasn't jumping floors and running through numerous groups of people. :oldrazz:

as much as i enjoyed the pruitt building scene, i know what u mean...

i finally saw what was happening after watching that scene like 3x on dvd! they need to show where batman is located in relation to the swat members and joker goons.

[I Am The Knight]

-Change Bales Bat-voice

-Change the Bat-suit to look like a Bat-suit, and not a Lego-Batman suit.

-Don't skip from scene to scene so fast, let some things sink in for a second.

-Dont have Batman running around during the day, or around brightly lit areas.(Where did his Ninja training go?).

-Change the Bat-suit

-Show more of Joker, and have him use more sinister jokes.

-Take out Two-Face, and only show the build up to him, so he could be the main villain in the Third movie.

-Change the Bat-suit

-Make Gotham City look like it did in Begins, you know, like Gotham City.

-Make Gary Oldmen do a voice over on the roof scene, cause his accent is coming out STRONG.

-Change the Bat-suit

-Change the actor who did Gambol, cause he did a horrible job.

-Change the SWAT actors, cause they also did a horrible job.

-And one other thing, I just can't remember....oh yeah! Change the Bat-suit.

LOL :hehe:

SOME of them were meant to be funny, but most are very serious.

So I suppose that only makes you a natural idiot, eh? How's the village going?

And if I ever decide to use it, you might be the first on that list.

Bwhahahaha... :oldrazz:

Oh, come on. I :lmao:'ed.

:hehe:

Me too. But then I cried :csad:

[Infinity9999x]

The only big thing I would have wanted to change was, and I'm sure many have said this, Two Face. I wanted to see a movie that truly explored his scarred psyche, obsession with the duality of all things, and his battle between his split personalities. Now, I understand we couldn't have gotten all that in this movie, which is why I had hoped they would keep him alive for the sequel.

[RachelDawes]

To be serious, the only thing I would change for sure is how the Pruitt building set piece was staged. I had to watch it like, 5 times on my computer to figure out exactly what the heck was going on, especially in terms of geography. :funny: Nolan tends to shoot fight scenes very close, which wasn't as much of an issue in the other fight scenes because Batman wasn't jumping floors and running through numerous groups of people. :oldrazz:

Yeah, I didn't get that scene at all in the theater. Even after watching the movie two times since I still don't fully understand it. Lucky for me I don't care much about action scenes. :hehe:

[Anita18]

Yeah, I didn't get that scene at all in the theater. Even after watching the movie two times since I still don't fully understand it. Lucky for me I don't care much about action scenes. :hehe:
It's not as important for that scene as it is for, say, the Slaughter truck chase where each vehicle gets a distinct focus. All you need to know for the Pruitt building is that the SWATs are targeting the wrong people and Batman has to prevent the hostages from getting killed while beating up some Joker goons in the process. :funny:

[Anita18]

as much as i enjoyed the pruitt building scene, i know what u mean...

i finally saw what was happening after watching that scene like 3x on dvd! they need to show where batman is located in relation to the swat members and joker goons.
After doing some more useless analyzing, I now understand why people think that scene was sloppily directed. It's viscerally exciting (and that's why I accepted it), but for people who actually want to know what's going on, it's very frustrating, and abounds with little continuity errors. Although I'm not sure if you could count them as continuity errors if they simply just don't show you enough info on screen! :funny:

For instance, from the way it was staged, it looks like there are only 3 clown hostages the SWAT and Batman are focusing on at the start of the operation. Batman crashes into one of them, who turns out to be Engel. They crash a good 15 feet from the window, yet when Batman turns to look at the other hostages, they seem to be right next to them. He shouldn't have been able to see that their hands were duct-taped from his vantage point.

When the snipers take their shot, Batman manages to drag three hostages out of the way, but it would have to be a different group of hostages. (By taking down Engel, the original group of 3 is now 2.) That's most definitely possible because there were supposedly 50 hostages, but that's not what Nolan seems to present on screen.

As someone also mentioned earlier, the two hostages that Batman throws over the edge and down a floor, reappear later when the three SWAT guys go into the window. He also takes down those three SWAT guys, but then more suddenly appear. Which is possible, since a lot of them were going up the stairs, but...yeah. Confusing, amid everything else that's going on.

Also, six SWAT guys corner Batman, and all six of them are connected to the cord, but only 5 go over the edge. Not to mention there are several instances where Batman's sonar lenses are off when they should have been on.

It makes me think that there were several shots that Nolan deemed unworthy to go into the movie, and he had to save the sequence by doing some clever editing. :funny:


I feel like they needed a football-esque diagram with circles, X's and arrows to properly stage that scene. :funny:

[Doc Samson]

After reading through some of these "posts" I am now even more convinced that the majority of us fans have absolutely no idea of what makes a great movie, regardless of how much love we may have for these characters (and I'm not talking about the intentionally funny ones, I mean the dead-serious "suggestions" lol)

That being said, the only change I would've made was holding off with the full Two-Face reveal, but without that, we miss out on the classic hospital scene & an equally fantastic ending. So in retrospect, the movie may not be perfect, but it's pretty damn close IMO

[bulletbillx]

I would have included the joker's toxin that he has had since his first appearance some how. Probably just in the scene where he used poison/acid in someones drink. Or in the bank scene with the smoke grenade turning out to be a joker venom grenade.

His other joke weapons wouldnt really fit the movie. It could have been the result of an abandoned nerve poison project or something and the reason he only uses it once or twice would be that it was expensive/hard to get unlike the gunpowder, bullets, gasoline, etc. As well as him prefering to knife someone like he talked about in the interogation room while taunting that cop.

Other than that and no permawhite (with the scars filling the disfigurement of joker so it was fine with me) It was pretty much perfect.

Eh also maybe had batman's suit be less busy while keeping the plated look or at least made the bat logo bigger (about begins size) somehow.

[RachelDawes]

I would have made The Joker permawhite and not given him the cut smile.

But then we wouldnt've gotten those "You wanna know how I got these scars?" scenes. "You wanna know how I became permawhite?" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

I would have included the joker's toxin that he has had since his first appearance some how. Probably just in the scene where he used poison/acid in someones drink.

Maybe it was Joker venom that he put in the Commish's drink.

[Rishi]

Only a few things

- Katie Holmes as Rachel
- Knife in the dead batman guy like was originally shown
- Show the beginning of Gambol's face being cut by the Joker

ummm I think thats about it

[RachelDawes]

- Katie Holmes as Rachel

I would've preferred having Maggie G in BB.

- Knife in the dead batman guy like was originally shown

Absolutely. I hate that they changed it to a safety pin or whatever it was. I fail to see how a knife in a dead guy's chest is violent enough to push the movie into rated R territory, given that there were scenes where people were shot, thrown off balconies, and set on fire.