ACORN: The Official Thread

[StorminNorman]

Anyone else worried about the actions of ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now)? Its an organization that has long had ties to Obama and there are already allegation of ACORN recruiting voters to register multiple voting cards - a man interviewed said he registered 15 times with the encouragement of the organization.

ACORN is targeting vital swing states as well, even as it is being raided and investigated for voter fraud.

While I think at this point Obama will win no matter what ACORN does, this crisis is incredibly distressing.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/acornproject_vote_voting_drive.html

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_voter_fraud/2008/09/22/133361.html

http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html

[BobJM]

ACORN's illegal activities definitely worry me. An organization that Obama supports and has had long ties to suddenly gets busted for false voter registrations a month before election day?

You would think that it'd be all over the news, but it seems to have already blown over. Go figure.

[Matt]

There seems to be all kinds of voter fraud going on on both sides of the spectrum with this election and it is INCREDIBLY disturbing. What is even more disturbing is I can guarantee at least two pro-Obama posters will respond with "Good, if the Republicans cheated in 2004, so can we." Cheating, stealing elections, and circumventing democracy is becoming a common and acceptable political tactic in the minds of the parties, PACs and even their supporters and it is sick.

[Matt]

ACORN's illegal activities definitely worry me. An organization that Obama supports and has had long ties to suddenly gets busted for false voter registrations a month before election day?

You would think that it'd be all over the news, but it seems to have already blown over. Go figure.

Thats because basically every media outlet has formed a personal vendetta against John McCain due to his attacks of them and would rather play clips of him saying, "That one," 200 times a day than investigate serious voter fraud.

[Marx]

Voter fraud, on either side of the aisle, is still criminal and BOTH parties are guilty.

[redfirebird2008]

There seems to be all kinds of voter fraud going on on both sides of the spectrum with this election and it is INCREDIBLY disturbing. What is even more disturbing is I can guarantee at least two pro-Obama posters will respond with "Good, if the Republicans cheated in 2004, so can we." Cheating, stealing elections, and circumventing democracy is becoming a common and acceptable political tactic in the minds of the parties, PACs and even their supporters and it is sick.

Totally agreed. It is disturbing.

[BobJM]

Thats because basically every media outlet has formed a personal vendetta against John McCain due to his attacks of them and would rather play clips of him saying, "That one," 200 times a day than investigate serious voter fraud.

Too true.

[ShadowBoxing]

Voter fraud, on either side of the aisle, is still criminal and BOTH parties are guilty.
Agreed.

[Raiden]

This is not a Dems issue, but an issue that is relevant for both parties. Obviously GOP has a history of voter fraud as well, such as back in 2000 down in Florida that made Bush seemed to win by a few hundred votes. But I think voter fraud should be investigated and weed out, as it hinders the democratic process in this country.

[redfirebird2008]

Thats because basically every media outlet has formed a personal vendetta against John McCain due to his attacks of them and would rather play clips of him saying, "That one," 200 times a day than investigate serious voter fraud.

The only thing the media is interested in right now is pushing the "Obama is a terrorist" meme that McCain's campaign is cramming down everyone's throat. Why doesn't McCain's campaign bring up ACORN? Perhaps then his buddies in the media will pick up on it. After all, it's just fine to accuse Obama of being a terrorist when you yourself have direct ties to the Iran Contra scandal. Wonder if any of the mainstream will report that, or will they continue the BS line about how McCain always puts "country first"?

[jaguarr]

Voter fraud, on either side of the aisle, is still criminal and BOTH parties are guilty.

I agree. The crap that the Republican Committe Chair in...I think it was Michigan...was pulling where they had foreclosure records and were trying to get people's right to vote denied for being on that list was despicable. It's gone on from both sides of the partisan aisle.

jag

[Paradoxium]

The only thing the media is interested in right now is pushing the "Obama is a terrorist" meme that McCain's campaign is cramming down everyone's throat. Why doesn't McCain's campaign bring up ACORN? Perhaps then his buddies in the media will pick up on it. After all, it's just fine to accuse Obama of being a terrorist when you yourself have direct ties to the Iran Contra scandal. Wonder if any of the mainstream will report that, or will they continue the BS line about how McCain always puts "country first"?The MSM will never pick this up. All McCain knows about is Foreign Policy and War. When it comes to the economy... hahahahahahaahahaha This is a free "gimme" and he is not even trying. Both candidates are a joke.

:csad:

[Yerzrinot]

Anyone else worried about the actions of ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now)? Its an organization that has long had ties to Obama and there are already allegation of ACORN recruiting voters to register multiple voting cards - a man interviewed said he registered 15 times with the encouragement of the organization.

ACORN is targeting vital swing states as well, even as it is being raided and investigated for voter fraud.

While I think at this point Obama will win no matter what ACORN does, this crisis is incredibly distressing.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/acornproject_vote_voting_drive.html

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_voter_fraud/2008/09/22/133361.html

http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html

Since when is Newsmax a reliable source?

[BobJM]

The story's not fake.

[The Senator]

Voter fraud, on either side of the aisle, is still criminal and BOTH parties are guilty.

True.

[jaguarr]

http://calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6962

Republican Voter Registration Fraud in San Bernardino Further Exposed
by: Robert in Monterey
Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 07:52:03 AM PDT

Note: Title edited as per a suggestion in the comments

To expand on the voter fraud in San Bernardino County that the CDP alerted us to yesterday, funded by would-be governor Steve Poizner, Carol Robb of the San Bernardino County Democratic Central Committee has provided more details, including Republican DA Mike Ramos' unwillingness to even return Democrats' calls:

Here's what has happened:

·Immediately after the Labor Day weekend, we saw a large increase in San Bernardino County in Republican Registration, as compared to Democratic, for the first time in 14 months

·The office of the Registrar of Voters was alerted to this situation by Carol Robb.

·The Secretary of State's office was also alerted by a phone call from Carol Robb.

·Knowing that voter registration fraud was taking place in Riverside County, Carol Robb got a list from the Registrar of Voters, containing new registrations and re-registrations between Aug. 18 and Sept. 3. That file was used to identify over 400 voters whose registration changed from Democrat, or "declined to state," to Republican.

·Calls were made to about 100 randomly selected voters from the 400+ on the list. Because of incorrect phone numbers, only 33 interviews were completed.

·Phone interviews determined that 27, of the 33 voters reached had been "slammed" -- their party affiliation was improperly changed.

·The advice of the California Democratic Party was sought, and Bob Mulholland was designated to assist us.

·Carol Robb, Patrick Kahler, Sam Clauder, and Phil Robb (Carol's husband, retired Deputy DA) met with Kari Verjil and her key staff on Friday, September 12. The Registrar was given all information, including copies of our 33 telephone interview forms.

·Carol Robb also filed an on-line complaint with the DA's Public Integrity Unit.

·Carol and Sam kept in close contact with Bob Mulholland, who constantly urged us to "go public."

·When our calls to the DA's office were unreturned Monday and again Tuesday morning, Mulholland took matters into his own hands, and sent out a press release from the state party linking San Bernardino's situation to State Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner's repeated press releases, about his personal funding of Republican voter registration bounty programs.

·In the meantime, the Registrar's office has handed over all information to both the District Attorney and the Secretary of State, with her request for immediate investigation.

·Congressman Baca was asked to call DA Mike Ramos to urge immediate action.

·Supervisor Josie Gonzalez has pledged to contact the DA's office and urge immediate action.

·A copy of our press release and other information has been shared with a representative of Assembly Speaker Karen Bass. Karen Bass will be meeting with both Secretary of State Debra Bowen and Attorney General Jerry Brown in the next day or so, and will share our information directly with them.

SBD Republicans are trying to cast this as Democratic sour grapes but it's clear that there is something worth investigating here. Democrats are holding a press conference at 11 AM today to explain the matter to local media and demand an investigation and accountability.

It's worth keeping in mind that this isn't just about the 2008 cycle - but that the involvement of Steve Poizner, a leading candidate for the GOP gubernatorial nomination in 2010, suggests this could be a long-term strategy for Republicans in California. Certainly the track record of YPM, the Republican firm at the center of the scandal and with many years of voter registration fraud dating back to at least 2004, suggests this to be the case.

Both sides do this crap.

jag

[Matt]

And its like I said, cheating has become a political tool for parties and their supporters and that is sad.

[Paradoxium]

Besides the cheating, I also find ACORN's contribution to the financial crisis pretty comedic. What makes it better is in knowing they are fueled by tax dollars too.

[redfirebird2008]

And its like I said, cheating has become a political tool for parties and their supporters and that is sad.

And while we are on this subject, anyone see what one of the top officials in the Catholic Church in Pennsylvania has said recently? He's demanding that all priests under his diocese to tell their congregations to vote for McCain. It's not only voter registration that is a problem, but time to start yanking the tax-exempt status of the churches in this country. They are becoming tools of politics. I include in this, of course, Obama's former church with the kind of political crap Wright was spewing, including telling his congregation some crap about how Hillary "doesn't know blah blah blah about suffering racial prejudice blah blah blah" in an effort to, at the very least, get people to vote against Hillary.

[kainedamo]

It's not acceptable from either side, obviously.

Is there any sort of non-partisan factcheck article that can clear up whether or not Obama is tied to ACORN and if so what it means?

[Malice]

Go with the GOOOH party people!

[Malice]

Honestly, if you get caught causing voter fraud....
Seriously....

I would make it a minimum of 20 years.

[jaguarr]

Go with the GOOOH party people!

Those are people who like to have sex in kiddie pools filled with food, right?

jag

[Malice]

Those are people who like to have sex in kiddie pools filled with food, right?

jag

DOH!

http://www.goooh.com

[jaguarr]

DOH!

http://www.goooh.com

Don't ruin my joke, ya Todd! :oldrazz:

jag

[BobJM]

It's not acceptable from either side, obviously.

Is there any sort of non-partisan factcheck article that can clear up whether or not Obama is tied to ACORN and if so what it means?

"When he began his presidential run, Obama paid ACORN more than $800,000 to help 'Get Out the Vote'--although it was not originally reported that way to the FEC." - The Weekly Standard

[kainedamo]

Was it clear at that time if ACORN were involved in fraud?

[Visionary]

I voted 8 times!

*catch me if you can*

[redfirebird2008]

I voted 8 times!

*catch me if you can*

LOL. Nice. :hehe:

[Überlibran]

It's not acceptable from either side, obviously.

Is there any sort of non-partisan factcheck article that can clear up whether or not Obama is tied to ACORN and if so what it means?

"When he began his presidential run, Obama paid ACORN more than $800,000 to help 'Get Out the Vote'--although it was not originally reported that way to the FEC." - The Weekly Standard
The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/)


Edited by William Kristol and Fred Barnes.
So I'll repeat Kainedamo's question , Is there a non-partisan factcheck article that addresses this issue? :yay:

[Handsome Rob]

Thousands of Voter Registration Forms Faked, Officials Say

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

And the story of ACORN continues . . . on CNN . . .

Although CNN isn't non-partisan, it does say this in the article:

"A subsidiary of the group was paid $800,000 by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign to register voters for the 2008 primaries . . ."

[lazur]

Thats because basically every media outlet has formed a personal vendetta against John McCain due to his attacks of them and would rather play clips of him saying, "That one," 200 times a day than investigate serious voter fraud.

It's being covered on Fox, but nowhere else. CNN is completely silent.

Interestingly, when Democrats were accusing Republicans of fraud back in 2000 and again in 2004, Fox covered those stories as well despite that they favored Democrats.

Yet, according to this crowd, Fox is the news network that's most biased of them all... I guess, biased or not, they still do their job, which is more than can be said for CNN or any of the networks...

[Hobgoblin]

There seems to be all kinds of voter fraud going on on both sides of the spectrum with this election and it is INCREDIBLY disturbing. What is even more disturbing is I can guarantee at least two pro-Obama posters will respond with "Good, if the Republicans cheated in 2004, so can we." Cheating, stealing elections, and circumventing democracy is becoming a common and acceptable political tactic in the minds of the parties, PACs and even their supporters and it is sick.

You know, at one time I would have rolled my eyes at the insinuation that America's democracy is slowly being eroded, but now I have to wonder. With the media so polarized for one candidate or another, an unbiased press is becoming a thing of the past. Now people are almost openly practicing voter fraud.

Still, I guess it has probably always been this way, one way or another.

[lazur]

So I'll repeat Kainedamo's question , Is there a non-partisan factcheck article that addresses this issue? :yay:

Hmm, not sure, and not sure it matters. I mean, is there a non-partisan 'factcheck' on the Keating Five or Troopergate?

;)

[kainedamo]

Hmm, not sure, and not sure it matters. I mean, is there a non-partisan 'factcheck' on the Keating Five or Troopergate?

;)

Troopergate is an ongoing investigation, dude.

Is Obama under any type of official investigation?

No.

[Gilpesh]

Hmm, not sure, and not sure it matters. I mean, is there a non-partisan 'factcheck' on the Keating Five or Troopergate?

;)

It's called testimony... :whatever:

[jaguarr]

Anyone upset by potential voter fraud that isn't equally upset by all the voter suppression plots floating around has no business complaining, IMHO.

jag

[Gilpesh]

It's being covered on Fox, but nowhere else. CNN is completely silent.

Interestingly, when Democrats were accusing Republicans of fraud back in 2000 and again in 2004, Fox covered those stories as well despite that they favored Democrats.

Yet, according to this crowd, Fox is the news network that's most biased of them all... I guess, biased or not, they still do their job, which is more than can be said for CNN or any of the networks...

Hmmm, to use words that come to mind about this ACORN business...

I agree that if indeed this is true (which isn't likely, but we'll see), then something needs to be done.

[StorminNorman]

So I'll repeat Kainedamo's question , Is there a non-partisan factcheck article that addresses this issue? :yay:

This is the most damning story I have read about Obama's connections with ACORN.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7231

[The Lizard]

There seems to be all kinds of voter fraud going on on both sides of the spectrum with this election and it is INCREDIBLY disturbing.

Actually just to clarify things, the Democratic Party is the official party of voter fraud and the Republican Party is the official party of voter intimidation. :oldrazz:

[souvlaki]

Has anyone bothered pointing out that ACORN employees work off of commission, and many of their employees come from low-income families therefore it's entirely possible that quite a few of them simply registered non-existent voters to make more money?

[souvlaki]

I mean, I'm not trying to justify it, but considering ACORN is claiming they were aware of the problem and tried to alert the authorities about it before leads me to believe it's possible ACORN isn't the problem so much as the employees themselves.

[souvlaki]

It's also important to point out that most of the cases in recent history regarding fake registration by ACORN employees were brought about because ACORN themselves turned those people in. I'm not saying this doesn't need to be looked into, but I think people are trying a little too hard to connect this to Obama, and make it look like it's a bigger deal than it really is.

[StorminNorman]

I mean, I'm not trying to justify it, but considering ACORN is claiming they were aware of the problem and tried to alert the authorities about it before leads me to believe it's possible ACORN isn't the problem so much as the employees themselves.

Why would you give the organization the benefit of the doubt when the evidence of their wrongdoing is fairly great.

Now if authorities supported the claim - then you can start looking at it differently, but to defend ACORN because they made a statement supporting themselves is a little illogical.

[souvlaki]

Why would you give the organization the benefit of the doubt when the evidence of their wrongdoing is fairly great.

Now if authorities supported the claim - then you can start looking at it differently, but to defend ACORN because they made a statement supporting themselves is a little illogical.

Because voter fraud makes absolutely no sense. Do you think ACORN doesn't realize the risk?

But perhaps most importantly, the idea of massive polling-place fraud (through the use of inflated voter rolls) is inherently incredible. Suppose I want to swing the Missouri election for my preferred presidential candidate. I would have to figure out who the fake, dead or missing people on the registration rolls are, then pay a lot of other individuals to go to the polling place and claim to be that person, without any return guarantee - thanks to the secret ballot - that any of them will cast a vote for my preferred candidate.

Those who do show up at the polls run the risk of being detected and charged with a felony. And for what - $10? Polling-place fraud, in short, makes no sense.

The Justice Department devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country. Of the many experts consulted, the only dissenter from that position was a representative of the now-evaporated American Center for Voting Rights.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-hasen_10edi.ART.State.Edition1.436da28.html

When you pay your employees to register voters on a commission basis do you really honestly believe that there are not going to be quite a few employees registering fake names, etc. to make more money?

[Anita18]

Hmmm, to use words that come to mind about this ACORN business...
Re: lazur, BobJM, and others of their ilk (albeit less extreme) - I'm reminded of the subtitle of a political section of another forum I frequent:

Politically Incorrect: "People who feel the urgent need to speak out about politics constantly on some pointless section of a forum that is only frequented by the same 30 people who all know each others opinions by heart after 2 days" :cwink:

:oldrazz:

[Gilpesh]

:oldrazz:

:heart: :hehe:

[Paradoxium]

8vJcVgJhNaU

[Thinkton]

The streets of all the major cities in the United States will fill with literally dozens of Obama supporters rioting because of their collective bewilderment at the fact that a severely inexperienced candidate with absolutely no leadership history and tax and spend desires has lost. They will scream about a faulty election system and how the election was stolen and eventually they will go back home to their parents basements completely disillusioned that their American dream of doing nothing while having the salaries of the actual work force taxed and split amongst them has disappeared. They may try to organize a protest march on the capitol, but those plans will fall through due to so many of them unwilling to get off of mom and dad's couch to attend.

[Honey Vibe]

It seems these interest groups are participating in all out political warfare. Voter registration fraud showcases the extremes to which they will go to inaugurate their candidate.

[souvlaki]

The streets of all the major cities in the United States will fill with literally dozens of Obama supporters rioting because of their collective bewilderment at the fact that a severely inexperienced candidate with absolutely no leadership history and tax and spend desires has lost. They will scream about a faulty election system and how the election was stolen and eventually they will go back home to their parents basements completely disillusioned that their American dream of doing nothing while having the salaries of the actual work force taxed and split amongst them has disappeared. They may try to organize a protest march on the capitol, but those plans will fall through due to so many of them unwilling to get off of mom and dad's couch to attend.

Oh you mean like what happened when Republicans suppressed voters in 2000 and 2004? For the record ACORN is required BY LAW to turn in every single voter registration form regardless of whether or not it's fake. When pressure is put on ACORN branches to register a certain amount of voters and you have employees paid by commission for every voter they register how is anyone shocked this happened? Don't get me wrong, it's ACORN and their policies that are at fault but you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's not voter fraud until people actually vote. Voter registration fraud is a misdemeanor, voter fraud is a felony. There is quite a big difference.

As for Obama's connections to said organization, first off, he never worked for said organization like people are making it out to sound. When he was an attorney he represented them ONCE, and won that case I might add. The money he gave to ACORN was during the primaries, and it was for the purpose of registering new voters, but short of that the connections end there. All this ACORN talk is doing is giving people a scapegoat when Obama wins in November.

[Schlosser85]

They will scream about a faulty election system and how the election was stolen

Like it was in 2000 and 2004?

their American dream of doing nothing while having the salaries of the actual work force taxed and split amongst them has disappeared

Are you talking about Obama followers or the Bush family?

[Thinkton]

Schlosser85 lets get back on topic for ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!

[Schlosser85]

A partisan propagandizing troll is hardly going to tell me what to do.

There is no evidence that Obama is complicit in this attempt at voter fraud, nor that it was a concerted effort by ACORN workers, particularly since every invalid signature is in the same handwriting.

[jaguarr]

Schlosser85 lets get back on topic for ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!

Errr...YOU are the one who spouted out this bit of off-topic drivel in the first place:

The streets of all the major cities in the United States will fill with literally dozens of Obama supporters rioting because of their collective bewilderment at the fact that a severely inexperienced candidate with absolutely no leadership history and tax and spend desires has lost. They will scream about a faulty election system and how the election was stolen and eventually they will go back home to their parents basements completely disillusioned that their American dream of doing nothing while having the salaries of the actual work force taxed and split amongst them has disappeared. They may try to organize a protest march on the capitol, but those plans will fall through due to so many of them unwilling to get off of mom and dad's couch to attend.

Tell me, please, because I have to know...did you INTEND for your username to be an oxymoron?

jag

[Thinkton]

Let me explain this to you as perfectly as crystal clear as I can. ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU! I discussed YOU! in the topic.

[jaguarr]

Let me explain this to you as perfectly as crystal clear as I can. ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU! I discussed YOU! in the topic.

LMAO! Seriously? That's your justification for posting that masturbatorial fantasy of Obama losing the election and your hated "liberals" rioting in the streets? :lmao:

jag

[Paradoxium]

:huh::huh::huh:

What the hell, I am confused.

I posted that video to show some of the connections between Obama + pleasing interest group + interest groups contribution to financial crisis (past and future). To be honest, I am not too focused on the voter fraud.

[souvlaki]

Schlosser85 lets get back on topic for ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!

Or how about you respond to peoples' posts instead of ignoring them when someone brings up a valid point?

[jaguarr]

:huh::huh::huh:

What the hell, I am confused.

I posted that video to show some of the connections between Obama + pleasing interest group + interest groups contribution to financial crisis (past and future). To be honest, I am not too focused on the voter fraud.

The answer is "four".

jag

[Thinkton]

I'am sorry my friends that you don't understand. But I responded to the title of the post which is "ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!" This is my last post to this thread due to arguments.

[Bill]

I'am sorry my friends that you don't understand. But I responded to the title of the post which is "ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!" This is my last post to this thread due to arguments.

Buh-bye.

[Schlosser85]

I'am sorry my friends that you don't understand. But I responded to the title of the post which is "ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!" This is my last post to this thread due to arguments.


Senator McCain?? :wow:

[souvlaki]

I'am sorry my friends that you don't understand. But I responded to the title of the post which is "ACORN, Voter Fraud and YOU!" This is my last post to this thread due to arguments.

Arguments don't work this way. Using the "You don't understand" card doesn't work when you don't have a valid counter-argument. It just makes people think you don't know what you are talking about. At any rate, ignoring other people when they say something you don't agree with you, and then say that you are simply not going to post in said thread instead of responding is not a very good way to get people around these parts to take you seriously.

[terry78]

Arguments don't work this way. Using the "You don't understand" card doesn't work when you don't have a valid counter-argument. It just makes people think you don't know what you are talking about. At any rate, ignoring other people when they say something you don't agree with you, and then say that you are simply not going to post in said thread instead of responding is not a very good way to get people around these parts to take you seriously.

That sounds familiar. McCain said the same thing to Obama in the first debate. Coincidence?

[souvlaki]

That sounds familiar. McCain said the same thing to Obama in the first debate. Coincidence?

Given that Thinkton has repeatedly used the phrase "My friends" I'm starting to think McCain is trolling the Superhero Hype! boards.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/sneakyflutes/jman.jpg

[jaguarr]

Given that Thinkton has repeatedly used the phrase "My friends" I'm starting to think McCain is trolling the Superhero Hype! boards.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/sneakyflutes/jman.jpg

:funny:

jag

[Superman4ever]

This whole ACORN fraud situation is the fraud. Republicans are purging votes illegally in 19 states and there isn't a word about it in the news.


How McCain Will Steal the Election from Obama (Sort Of)

Imagine an election where one of the participants calls foul. Investigations are launched or at least called for. Prosecutors raise the specter of charges, the U.S. attorney and FBI get involved. No voter fraud is ever actually found. But by the time that conclusion is reached, the myth has been solidified both to soothe the loser's supporters and condemn the winner.

Sound familiar? Sound like the recent ACORN scandal?

Well, actually I'm talking about the 1960 election between John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon. That Nixon was cheated out of a win is the stuff of legend on the Right. The allegations say that Kennedy loyalists fixed the vote counts in Illinois and Texas--swinging 51 electoral votes and a majority in the Electoral College to Kennedy. In more hyperbolic versions there is alleged involvement by the mob, the Teamsters Union or legendary Chicago mayor Richard Daley.

The story goes on that Nixon, "for the good of the country," conceded honorably and exited the scene. No matter that Nixon was later chased out of the White House for cheating in an election. The myth endures.

This whole story--maybe to be replayed with Obama playing Kennedy and McCain playing Nixon--is a canard. It is a fable. A lie made up by the conservative movement to hold together their fraying coalition.

In 2008 the stakes are bigger than they've ever been before for conservatives and the canard is that much more important to them.

In the case of Obama the conservative movement is lining up a serious of story elements. They are:

• Obama was a community organizer.
• ACORN, a group that does community organizing, has committed voter fraud.
• Obama is from Chicago.
• You know what happens in elections in Chicago. Remember the 1960 election.

The story is half true and half lies. As we all know, Barack Obama is from Chicago and was a community organizer. Those are the only true parts of the conservative story. But the other two facts are myths: the 1960 election wasn't stolen (says the conclusion of recounts and investigations in 1960 and numerous academic studies since). And, ACORN has not committed voter fraud. Not one bit.

The facts about ACORN are worth getting out. ACORN is an organization that, among other things, registers low-income people to vote. One of the ways they do this is to hire door-to-door canvassers from the neighborhoods they are working in. This sort of work is tightly regulated. So, when one of the thousands of people they give jobs to doesn't do their work right and brings back bogus or phony voter registration cards, the law REQUIRES that ACORN turn the forms in to the voter registration office. The law, rightly, doesn't want anybody throwing out voter registration forms for any reason.

But ACORN goes a step farther. They have people assigned to do quality control on all the cards--calling people on the forms after they fill them out. When they find bad information on the cards they attach a cover sheet to the card but, as mentioned above, they turn in the cards as required by law. The effect is that a few bad canvassers or a poorly run office will mean that bad cards are submitted as part of the normal process. But ACORN has done everything possible to make sure voting officials know to check the forms.

The sad fact is that in at least one state--Nevada--the voting officials disregarded ACORN's cover sheets flagging the voter registration forms. That should have never happened. The resulting blowup was a scandal in search of a scandal.

The stunning con of this whole thing is the assumption that bad voter registration cards being submitted will lead to vote fraud. If somebody submits a card for Mickey Mouse it isn't like Mr. Mouse is going to show up to vote. There is no voter fraud if nobody votes.

But the big story here is what the Right is doing. Their attacks on ACORN open up the door for two things.

First, the ACORN myth allows the Republicans to do more purging of the voter rolls--the process of removing people from the voter rolls because of arbitrary anomalies in the voter registration databases. Richard L Hasen, author of the Election Law Blog and a distinguished law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles recently wrote, "Careless purging--driven by unsubstantiated fears about voter fraud--can lead to many eligible voters being incorrectly removed from the polls." Already in Ohio the Republican Party is pushing for more purging and they found a federal judge who agreed citing ACORN's activities.

Second, in the event that campaigning, purging and intimidating voters doesn't work, the Right is creating a myth like they did in 1960. They are creating the myth of a stolen election. Conservatives plan to claim that ACORN and Barack Obama stole the election. Their hope is to steal the legitimacy of what is looking like a massive repudiation of Bush, conservatives and the Republican Party. The Right plans to steal the election by trying to steal the legitimate defeat of them by progressive forces.

And why wouldn't they? The entire Republican coalition could be shattered with this election. White suburban voters who once voted Republican on tax issues are running away from Republicans on a host of issues--including taxes. Independent are looking more and more like Democratic voters. Barack Obama may even win a majority of male voters. All of them are joining with urban votes, voters of color, young people, working class union members and others to form a long-term governing majority for progressives--a progressive majority.

Conservatives are scared of a progressive majority. And they're going to lie, cheat and steal to prevent it from happening. But they can only be successful if we let them.

The best way to deflate the conservative fable is to win with an overwhelming landslide that guarantees there won't be a dispute of the results.

We also need to confront the Republican vote purging and suppression. Already big efforts by the Obama campaign, the DNC and independent groups are working on this. Progressives and Democrats are united in this effort.

But we also need to make sure the ACORN canard doesn't get to live in daylight. It is time to circle the wagons and make sure John McCain and the Right can't steal the election...even if we win.

For progressives, the ball is in our court.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-matzzie/how-mccain-will-steal-the_b_133989.html

[lazur]

Oh you mean like what happened when Republicans suppressed voters in 2000 and 2004? For the record ACORN is required BY LAW to turn in every single voter registration form regardless of whether or not it's fake. When pressure is put on ACORN branches to register a certain amount of voters and you have employees paid by commission for every voter they register how is anyone shocked this happened? Don't get me wrong, it's ACORN and their policies that are at fault but you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's not voter fraud until people actually vote. Voter registration fraud is a misdemeanor, voter fraud is a felony. There is quite a big difference.

As for Obama's connections to said organization, first off, he never worked for said organization like people are making it out to sound. When he was an attorney he represented them ONCE, and won that case I might add. The money he gave to ACORN was during the primaries, and it was for the purpose of registering new voters, but short of that the connections end there. All this ACORN talk is doing is giving people a scapegoat when Obama wins in November.

Why don't you stop making accusations that hold no merit whatsoever. I'm tired of Democrats claiming Republicans 'purged votes' when no evidence of any kind can be provided. There were major problems with voter machines, but there's never been ANY evidence provided by ANYONE showing that the GOP or Republicans were behind it.

And, no, I'm not talking about liberal bloggers making the claim, either...

[Marx]

Why don't you stop making accusations that hold no merit whatsoever. I'm tired of Democrats claiming Republicans 'purged votes' when no evidence of any kind can be provided. There were major problems with voter machines, but there's never been ANY evidence provided by ANYONE showing that the GOP or Republicans were behind it.

And, no, I'm not talking about liberal bloggers making the claim, either...

You first. :dry:

[Paradoxium]

Soooo anyone going to talk about Obama's and ACORN's co-endorsements on certain agendas and the whole financial crisis bit. I think that is probably a biiiiig problem if it continues. Voting fraud - it happens once for this election.... but more of the same that caused the crisis... no cool.

[lazur]

Soooo anyone going to talk about Obama's and ACORN's co-endorsements on certain agendas and the whole financial crisis bit. I think that is probably a biiiiig problem if it continues. Voting fraud - it happens once for this election.... but more of the same that caused the crisis... no cool.

There are only a few here who want to talk about the relevant concerns of the day surrounding Obama, so good luck!

[Schlosser85]

There are only a few here who want to talk about the relevant concerns of the day surrounding Obama, so good luck!

Like being on the same board with someone who blew some stuff up forty years ago, and was appointed to that board by a supporter of McCain?

Like doing drugs when he was in school?

Like a comment his wife made?

[lazur]

Like being on the same board with someone who blew some stuff up forty years ago, and was appointed to that board by a supporter of McCain?

Like doing drugs when he was in school?

I guess doing coke isn't a huge deal unless your name is GW, and then it's fair game.

Like a comment his wife made?

I don't care who votes for whom. This supporter of McCain's isn't the one running for President. Also, if you're so obtuse that 'being on the board with someone' is the only association you care to consider that Obama has had with Ayers, then you should just come out and say 'no matter what, I'm voting Obama' and be done with it.

[kainedamo]

I don't care who votes for whom. This supporter of McCain's isn't the one running for President. Also, if you're so obtuse that 'being on the board with someone' is the only association you care to consider that Obama has had with Ayers, then you should just come out and say 'no matter what, I'm voting Obama' and be done with it.

The hypocrisy of the situation seems to go over your head completely.

We're supposed to buy into 'guilt by association' because Obama was on the same board as Ayers, but we can't apply that same logic to McCain, because the guy that ran that board is a McCain suppoter? A welcomed McCain supporter, I might add.

Instead of welcoming this republican, why didn't McCain say "you served on the same board as a terrorist - take your endorsement and shove it".

You lose, lazur.

[Schlosser85]

This supporter of McCain's isn't the one running for President.

Nor is Bill Ayers voting for President.

Also, if you're so obtuse that 'being on the board with someone' is the only association you care to consider that Obama has had with Ayers, then you should just come out and say 'no matter what, I'm voting Obama' and be done with it.

Well I am voting Obama. But what secret association did Obama have with Ayers that he hasn't revealed. He had his political "coming out" in Ayers' home...which was arranged by someone else, not Obama or Ayers. He worked on a board with Ayers, who was appointed to the board by a supporter of McCain. They lived in the same neighborhood....woohoo. Obama has never expressed support of Ayers' actions forty years ago. In fact, he has condemned them and violent protests in general. There is no evidence that Obama and Ayers are close personal friends, or that their association goes beyond a professional acquaintanceship...which is much less than can be said for Palin's familial connections to a party which wants to secede from the United States.

[souvlaki]

Why don't you stop making accusations that hold no merit whatsoever. I'm tired of Democrats claiming Republicans 'purged votes' when no evidence of any kind can be provided. There were major problems with voter machines, but there's never been ANY evidence provided by ANYONE showing that the GOP or Republicans were behind it.

And, no, I'm not talking about liberal bloggers making the claim, either...

Hey, I have an idea, lazur. Prove to me how any of these incidents of voter registration fraud will translate to actual voter fraud? You are the ultimate hypocrite so you have absolutely no room to talk.

[souvlaki]

And in case my point completely flew over your head, lazur... you have less proof right now that a.) actual voter fraud has been committed (yes there is a huge difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud), and b.) that Barrack Obama is actually responsible for it than the proof against the GOP committing voter fraud in Florida in 2000, and in Ohio in 2004. And that's not even including voter suppression. If you can say straight faced that there is no evidence that the GOP committed voter fraud in those elections, then I call you a hypocrite in this case because there isn't even evidence that actual voter fraud has occurred yet, let alone that Obama is responsible for it.

[comicgirl]

And in case my point completely flew over your head, lazur... you have less proof right now that a.) actual voter fraud has been committed (yes there is a huge difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud), and b.) that Barrack Obama is actually responsible for it than the proof against the GOP committing voter fraud in Florida in 2000, and in Ohio in 2004. And that's not even including voter suppression. If you can say straight faced that there is no evidence that the GOP committed voter fraud in those elections, then I call you a hypocrite in this case because there isn't even evidence that actual voter fraud has occurred yet, let alone that Obama is responsible for it.Sorry...maybe I missed it. Is the thought that Obama is planning voter fraud?....Based on what actual evidence???

[Marx]

Sorry...maybe I missed it. Is the thought that Obama is planning voter fraud?....Based on what actual evidence???

It is being suggested that Obama and ACORN are both responsible for the voter fraud scandal currently in Indiana because the Obama campaign and ACORN worked together in the PRIMARIES. There is no link, so far as I know, between the two camps in the general election. It's another one of those 'guilt by association' things that only seems to apply to non-republicans. :whatever:
I'll leave it to your good judgement as to WHO is suggesting such a link.




(That said, voter fraud on either side of the aisle is wrong.)

[Paradoxium]

DRhrT22BsIYOn ACORN and voting fraud care of CNN. :o

ANYWAYS.... about the whole financial crisis connection. I think that is a bigger problem....Anyone discussing it??? :csad:

[CaptainClown]

Let's assume that I was a person who uses dirty tricks to sway an election. I would think that making an organization for my opponent and then doing blatantly illegal activity seems like a tactic I would pursue. Not that it is what happened here, but I feel that someone could easily control this situation to gain favor for them.

It does remind me of Rush Limbaugh and his Operation Chaos where he swayed his sheep like following into voting in the Democratic primaries.

[souvlaki]

It is being suggested that Obama and ACORN are both responsible for the voter fraud scandal currently in Indiana because the Obama campaign and ACORN worked together in the PRIMARIES. There is no link, so far as I know, between the two camps in the general election. It's another one of those 'guilt by association' things that only seems to apply to non-republicans. :whatever:
I'll leave it to your good judgement as to WHO is suggesting such a link.




(That said, voter fraud on either side of the aisle is wrong.)

Well, it's more than that. People seem unable to make the distinction between voter fraud and voter registration fraud. Those names that are proven to be fake will be flagged and if they attempt to vote on November 4th they will be convicted of a felony. Ontop of that, a lot of the fake names turned in were obvious fakes (Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, etc.) so it's working under the assumption that people working at polling places would be dumb enough to let Mickey Mouse vote. The fact of the matter is that actual cases of voter fraud are rare. There are so many safeguards in place that actual cases of voter fraud are rare, and practically non-existent in modern elections. There have been no prosecutable cases of voter fraud in recent history. And why? Because it simply does not make sense. As I mentioned earlier, there is no guarantee that the people you pay to vote for Obama will do so because of the secret ballot. On top of that, given the risks involved, it's a hard sell in the first place... especially given the attention on those falsified voter registration forms by ACORN. Those flagged names will be watched with an amazing amount of scrutiny and the second any of those names show up to a polling place on election day they will be carted off by the police. It's simply not going to happen.

[Heretic]

Actually, Ive heard lots of rumblings about absentee ballots being sent to people who didnt ask for them, and they are then asked to return the forms to ACORN, not the actual government office...once the votes are in ACORNS hands, there will surely be tampering.

There really isnt any room to defend ACORN here.

[souvlaki]

Actually, Ive heard lots of rumblings about absentee ballots being sent to people who didnt ask for them, and they are then asked to return the forms to ACORN, not the actual government office...once the votes are in ACORNS hands, there will surely be tampering.

There really isnt any room to defend ACORN here.

With the attention currently being given to ACORN I'd say no. And I don't believe I defended ACORN's policies here. I just personally think the GOP is looking for a scapegoat if they lose the election. I will state this again, there have been no prosecutable cases of voter fraud in this country in recent history. Until actual evidence comes forth of voter fraud this is nothing more than heresy and speculation.

And there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the registration fraud. I've mentioned this at least 2 times in this thread and absolutely noone has responded. ACORN employees are paid by commission meaning that the more people their employees register, the more they get paid. Second, by law no voter registration form can be thrown away. I'm not saying ACORN is completely blameless in this matter, but until you can provide proof that actual voter fraud has occurred the only problem here has to do with ACORN's hiring policy.

[Gilpesh]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall

[souvlaki]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall

http://images.politico.com/global/mccainacorn.jpg

Busted...

[The Senator]

Obama likes acorns? Who cares! :cmad:

[Kurosawa]

http://images.politico.com/global/mccainacorn.jpg

Busted...

Well, there goes the faux ACORN issue out the window, not that it meant much anyway.

[Oddzball]

Anyone else worried about the actions of ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now)? Its an organization that has long had ties to Obama and there are already allegation of ACORN recruiting voters to register multiple voting cards - a man interviewed said he registered 15 times with the encouragement of the organization.

ACORN is targeting vital swing states as well, even as it is being raided and investigated for voter fraud.

While I think at this point Obama will win no matter what ACORN does, this crisis is incredibly distressing.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/acornproject_vote_voting_drive.html

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_voter_fraud/2008/09/22/133361.html

http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html

Nah, a few hundred there vs a serious percentage of the votes in Election Frauad (vs Voter fraud) that we've seen the last two elections.

[Superman4ever]

This ACORN drama is really pissing me off. In 2004 there were 36 different ways the GOP benefited from the election in Ohio alone.

People forced to stand in lines for 2.5 (some other states had to wait 15) hours in Columbus, OH...on a work day. ALL of whom were poor and black. There were fake flyers (and phone calls) sent out specifically to urban voters stating that Republicans voted on the 2nd of Nov. (election day Tuesday), while Democrats and Independents voted on the 3rd (obviously falsified information). Many urban polling locations had broken, missing and or too few machines. Cars were towed away as people waited to vote or while voting; pre-punched ballots, re-drawn precincts.

Voters purged from roll, most of whom were black/Hispanic and poor. Poll observers banned from polls.

All this with RECORD turnouts. This is Jim Crow. All this made it increasingly hard for people to vote, most were democrats.

There's a good book that lists all the problems: What Happened in Ohio? (http://www.electiontruth.org/)

http://www.amazon.com/What-Happened-Ohio-Documentary-Election/dp/1595580697

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61930-2005Jan9.html

There's a great documentary that all you Comcast subscribers can watch for free. Its called Uncounted. Go to On Demand >> Free Movies >> Independent.

And now we have Blackboxes to worry about:

TdzlnwWsAAU&feature=related

[StorminNorman]

It's another one of those 'guilt by association' things that only seems to apply to non-republicans. :whatever:

Except Obama is guilty of the very same thing.:huh:

[Marx]

Except Obama is guilty of the very same thing.:huh:

Obama is guilty of what Norm?

[Superman4ever]

Judge: GOP's voter purge a 'violation of federal law'

The American Civil Liberties Union is trumpeting a judge's decision in Michigan which brings to a halt the practice of eliminating voters from rolls if their mailing address is found to be invalid.

Recently, the GOP chairman in Macomb County, Michigan, detailed a plan to use a list of foreclosed homes to challenge voters. His pronouncement drew an immediate backlash, with predictions that the plan would "backfire."

It has.

The suit, filed by ACLU national and ACLU of Michigan, along with the Advancement Project, aimed to protect voters whose registration cards were returned to government offices by post as 'undeliverable.' Judge Stephen J. Murphy of the U.S. District Court of Michigan's Eastern District concluded that the program of eliminating these voters from rolls is in violation of federal law.

The voter purge program, better known to elections integrity experts as 'voter caging,' is a long-storied GOP tactic employed against minority, student and low-income voters. In September, the Obama campaign filed a lawsuit in Michigan challenging the illegal tactic.

"You essentially send a first-class letter to a hoursehold where you suspect that that person no longer lives there but where they're still registered to vote," explained Allen Raymond, a convicted GOP elections fraudster who spent time in prison after the discovery of a phone-jamming scheme during the 2002 elections. "That letter comes back. ... Somebody [at the local polling place] then challenges that vote if that person comes in to vote."

"This is a very significant ruling for Michigan voters," said Matthew Lund, the ACLU cooperating attorney and a partner at Pepper Hamilton LLP who argued the case, in a release. "The court recognized – and repeated several times – that the state of Michigan is conducting unlawful voter purges that clearly violate the National Voter Registration Act. Michigan voters who were removed from the voting rolls for no reason other than failure to receive their ID card in the mail will now be allowed to vote in November.”

"More than 1,400 voters in that category have been disqualified so far in 2008," reports the Associated Press. "The judge says it's unclear how many cancellations actually are wrong but it's a violation of federal law. Murphy says those people shouldn't be prevented from voting if they can produce more proof of residency at the polls."

"This program has a very detrimental impact in minority, low-income and student communities across Michigan," claims an ACLU advisory. "These communities tend to be more transient and to live in multi-family housing."

“This is a major victory for Michigan voters and the integrity of our democratic process,” said Meredith Bell-Platts, staff counsel with the ACLU Voting Rights Project, in a release. “Today’s decision brings us one step closer to restoring confidence in a electoral system that has been poisoned by illegal disfranchisement policies. As a result of the judge’s decision, fewer Michigan voters will be illegally purged and wrongly disfranchised – and that’s good for everyone.”

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_voter_purge_declared_illegal_in_1013.html

[jaguarr]

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/a_lifetime_ago_sen_john.php

Sen. McCain Stood With ACORN Rally In 2006

13 Oct 2008 09:28 pm
A goldfish's lifetime ago, Sen. John McCain was happy to accept the honors and acclamation of the Service Employees International Union, People for the American Way, UNITE HERE -- and ACORN. Here he is, on Feb. 20, 2006, telling immigration rights activists at a rally in Miami that they "are what makes America special." ACORN co-sponsored the rally, and its volunteers surround McCain, and while there's no evidence that McCain ever formally teamed with the group, the video serves as a reminder that he did not mind being associated with them when the politics of the moment were different. (The video clip was e-mailed to this column by a Democrat who supports Barack Obama.)

oJ9wy2MI1NI

It's important to know, as you watch this, that ACORN was, to Republican field operatives, a Dirty Word in 2006...and in 2004, but general awareness among politicians and activists of what it does was limited to those who had to deal with its voter registration efforts. See here. (A clue: they were part of the America Coming Together consortium in 2004...that should have been a clue as to their ideological leanings.)

A few weeks ago, House Republicans screamed bloody murder when it appeared as if ACORN would benefit from the bailout bill, although McCain, President Bush and House Republicans have supported legislation with similar provisions before and they spent billions on the Road Home project, which contracts with ACORN to help provide housing for Katrina refugees. (You can't say...ah, but ACORN wasn't suspected of doing anything bad earlier... you can't say that because ACORN has been doing what ACORN is accused of doing for several cycles now.)

In 2008, of course, ACORN has become a stand-in not only for the registration fraud allegations, but also for the coincident insinuations that Sen. Obama and his liberal allies are trying to steal the election in battleground states. Indeed, because "ACORN" has become a national political issue, it will be hard for Republicans to use it as a political wedge issue. Once an attack is associated with a party, it doesn't become an attack; it becomes part of party dogma and can service only party activists.

McCain had no trouble fraternizing with ACORN in 2006 when their political interests coincided with his. Now, his campaign is writing e-mails in his name bashing ACORN as a tool of the Obama machine.

"We need your help to ensure a fair and honest election. Already we have seen nationwide voter registration fraud by ACORN - a group closely linked to Barack Obama," one e-mail from "The McCain Legal Team" says.



Oh, John. Tsk.

jag

[The Senator]

Obama is guilty of what Norm?

Being... a terrorist? :huh:

[Marx]

Being... a terrorist? :huh:

*cue overly dramatic scream of horror*

'OBAMA'S A TERRORIST!?!?!?!?!!'

Has that been confirmed yet? I thought it was still hearsay at this point... :cwink:

[The Senator]

*cue overly dramatic scream of horror*

'OBAMA'S A TERRORIST!?!?!?!?!!'

Has that been confirmed yet? I thought it was still hearsay at this point... :cwink:

Um, have you seen the picture?

http://www.moneymad.org/Previous/Barack_Obama_muslim.jpg

I think this is damning :o

[Marx]

Um, have you seen the picture?

I think this is damning :o

*cue overly dramatic scream of horror*

OH MY GOSH!!!! THERE ARE NO OBVIOUS SIGNS OF PHOTOSHOPPING!! IT MUST BE TRUE!!!

*runs out of the thread screaming*

:cwink::funny:

[The Guard]

ACORN is a particuarly stupid name.

[The Senator]

ACORN is a particuarly stupid name.

Again, I ask:

Obama likes acorns? Who cares! :cmad:

Because Average Voter isn't going to care about this... he cares more about not having money in the bank than some voter fraud issue which may or may not affect him...

[rdh007]

I'm always struck that left leaning voter fraud is an attempt to get more people to vote and right leaning voter fraud is an attempt to get fewer people to vote. I endorse neither, just an observation.

[The Guard]

Why would you give the organization the benefit of the doubt when the evidence of their wrongdoing is fairly great.

Where's the evidence of their wrongdoing, other than the fact that they, by default, are associated with those that they hire. And that might be an issue, but to hold an entire organization accountable for the actions of a few?

So...dead people and fictional characters get registered. Are fictional characters going to vote? And yes, I know it's happened before, but are we to believe it would happen this time, with obvious safeguards in place? I fail to see how this affects the outcome of an actual election.

Has anyone bothered pointing out that ACORN employees work off of commission, and many of their employees come from low-income families therefore it's entirely possible that quite a few of them simply registered non-existent voters to make more money?

This would seem the most likely explanation.

Actually, Ive heard lots of rumblings about absentee ballots being sent to people who didnt ask for them, and they are then asked to return the forms to ACORN, not the actual government office...once the votes are in ACORNS hands, there will surely be tampering.

I would imagine ACORN would like to know whether they "recruited" anyone. They probably want to do a count, etc. Tampering? What are you basing that on?

[lazur]

Again, I ask:

Obama likes acorns? Who cares! :cmad:

Because Average Voter isn't going to care about this... he cares more about not having money in the bank than some voter fraud issue which may or may not affect him...

Well if the average voter only cares about having money in the bank, then ACORN absolutely should be a concern, since they were responsible for all off the bad paper that Fannie and Freddie bought, which then started this domino effect of an economical disaster.

ACORN is about more than voter fraud - they're also about housing fraud.

If Obama is smart, he will distance himself considerably from this organization. Otherwise, it has the potential of taking him down and ruining this election for him.

Not that I'd mind.

[The Senator]

Well if the average voter only cares about having money in the bank, then ACORN absolutely should be a concern, since they were responsible for all off the bad paper that Fannie and Freddie bought, which then started this domino effect of an economical disaster.

ACORN is about more than voter fraud - they're also about housing fraud.

If Obama is smart, he will distance himself considerably from this organization. Otherwise, it has the potential of taking him down and ruining this election for him.

Not that I'd mind.

ACORN be too darn complimicated to understand, why it matter if the Muslim like tree-nuts? [/redneck]

for the record, I love rednecks, and am not targeting any one person with my perpetually warped sense of humor. :heart:

[lazur]

Where's the evidence of their wrongdoing, other than the fact that they, by default, are associated with those that they hire. And that might be an issue, but to hold an entire organization accountable for the actions of a few?

They're being investigated in FOURTEEN STATES.

And since when is an employer NOT responsible for the conduct of its employees in the execution of business??? Why are you defending this organization when the evidence of voter fraud is OVERWHELMING?

Tow the party line much?

So...dead people and fictional characters get registered. Are fictional characters going to vote? And yes, I know it's happened before, but are we to believe it would happen this time, with obvious safeguards in place? I fail to see how this affects the outcome of an actual election.

Yeah, let's just sweep the hundreds of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations under the rug and pretend it isn't happening. Let's pretend that even CNN hasn't picked up this story.

You would not be defending this organization if McCain had given them 800k and they were 'motor voting' Republicans to the polls, and you know it. But way to let your partisan light shine, my friend.

This would seem the most likely explanation.

I would imagine ACORN would like to know whether they "recruited" anyone. They probably want to do a count, etc. Tampering? What are you basing that on?

THE EVIDENCE. HELLO?

[lazur]

ACORN be too darn complimicated to understand, why it matter if the Muslim like tree-nuts? [/redneck]

for the record, I love rednecks, and am not targeting any one person with my perpetually warped sense of humor. :heart:

Oh okay, so because YOU can't (or refuse to) understand, they must be innocent. :rolleyes:

If you really need help understanding, Google 'Community Reinvestment Act' and ACORN, and then presto, it all becomes clear.

But I suspect that you won't since, you know, it doesn't quite fit into your neatly shaped partisan world.

[The Senator]

Oh okay, so because YOU can't (or refuse to) understand, they must be innocent. :rolleyes:

If you really need help understanding, Google 'Community Reinvestment Act' and ACORN, and then presto, it all becomes clear.

But I suspect that you won't since, you know, it doesn't quite fit into your neatly shaped partisan world.

I know what ACORN is, silly.

My point is that average voters neither know nor care about it.

As for my neatly shaped partisan world, keep on spewing those falsehoods. I'm voting for a Republican this November.

Where's your partisan argument now? :huh:

[Marx]

Oh okay, so because YOU can't (or refuse to) understand, they must be innocent. :rolleyes:

If you really need help understanding, Google 'Community Reinvestment Act' and ACORN, and then presto, it all becomes clear.

But I suspect that you won't since, you know, it doesn't quite fit into your neatly shaped partisan world.

You are hardly one to ridicule others on blind party loyalty.

[lazur]

You are hardly one to ridicule others on blind party loyalty.

Being opposed to someone doesn't automatically mean you're in the opposing party. For me, there's not a lot to like about Obama, and only some things to like about McCain. Neither is the ideal candidate, but I'm not ready to vote for a guy who's hellbent on turning our country socialist.

[The Senator]

Being opposed to someone doesn't automatically mean you're in the opposing party. For me, there's not a lot to like about Obama, and only some things to like about McCain. Neither is the ideal candidate, but I'm not ready to vote for a guy who's hellbent on turning our country socialist.

Can you provide the source where Obama says he's going to turn this country socialist? Like, actually says he wants to bring socialism to the United States?

[The Guard]

They're being investigated in FOURTEEN STATES.

Ok, so they're being investigated. That makes sense, but where's the actual proof of recent wrongdoing on the part of ACORN, in terms of its policies, etc? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just asking to see it.

And since when is an employer NOT responsible for the conduct of its employees in the execution of business??? Why are you defending this organization when the evidence of voter fraud is OVERWHELMING?

Well, that's an interesting argument. I suppose it depends on the extent of control they have over what is going on. If they know something is happening, and they allow it to happen, that's one thing.

Tow the party line much?

Not too often, no.

Yeah, let's just sweep the hundreds of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations under the rug and pretend it isn't happening. Let's pretend that even CNN hasn't picked up this story.

I didn't say sweep it under the rug. I asked for proof of their wrongdoing as an organization. Hundreds of thousands? Where are those numbers coming from?

THE EVIDENCE. HELLO?

What evidence?

The partisian thing...I don't know what you're referring to. I simply asked for the sources of this information that you call "proof" so that I can decide for myself.

[lazur]

I know what ACORN is, silly.

My point is that average voters neither know nor care about it.

As for my neatly shaped partisan world, keep on spewing those falsehoods. I'm voting for a Republican this November.

Where's your partisan argument now? :huh:

I could care less how you're voting. That's between you and God. It's your defense of Obama and his past associations and actions that I find to be alarming.

[The Senator]

Guard, I think you should provide a source where Obama declares no wrong doing in the ACORN scandal, if one exists.

Considering lazur believes that reports which declare a candidate's innocence, straight from the candidate's mouth (i.e. Palin), are truthful and honest.

He's bound to accept that, considering that's the standard he's set. Otherwise, that would be a double-standard... and well, I can't imagine lazur would be one to engage in that sort of behavior...

[lazur]

Can you provide the source where Obama says he's going to turn this country socialist? Like, actually says he wants to bring socialism to the United States?

Of course he's never SAID it. Remember, I don't believe a word the man says. His ACTIONS speak much more honestly than his words.

[lazur]

Guard, I think you should provide a source where Obama declares no wrong doing in the ACORN scandal, if one exists.

Considering lazur believes that reports which declare a candidate's innocence, straight from the candidate's mouth (i.e. Palin), are truthful and honest.

He's bound to accept that, considering that's the standard he's set. Otherwise, that would be a double-standard... and well, I can't imagine lazur would be one to engage in that sort of behavior...

Depends on the candidate and their record. ;)

[The Senator]

I could care less how you're voting. That's between you and God. It's your defense of Obama and his past associations and actions that I find to be alarming.

I don't talk to God when I vote. Not knocking you beliefs, but God and I are on a "live and let live" basis.

Also, because I disagree with you, I'm a partisan hack?

HAHAHAHAHA!

I have criticized Obama on numerous occasions, even went as far to say that I wouldn't vote for him earlier this election.

Yeah, the fact that I'm voting for a Republican this election, have praised Republican politicians, criticized the House and Senate leadership, and criticized Obama's actions on the campaign trail should prove that I'm not a blind partisan.

But again, kind sir, I do suggest you meet my friend Kettle, she needs someone to compliment her outfit :up:

[The Senator]

Depends on the candidate and their record. ;)

And their party, can't forget that.

[Gilpesh]

Of course he's never SAID it. Remember, I don't believe a word the man says. His ACTIONS speak much more honestly than his words.

Um... McCain wants to buy up all the bad mortgages...

Um... McCain wants the government to go in and reform businesses...


Who's the f**king socialist now?

[The Senator]

Of course he's never SAID it. Remember, I don't believe a word the man says. His ACTIONS speak much more honestly than his words.

So, you have no proof that Obama is going to turn this country into a socialist state then?

That's what I thought.

Carry on. :yay:

[The Guard]

Guard, I think you should provide a source where Obama declares no wrong doing in the ACORN scandal, if one exists.

Why, exactly? I have no idea what he's said on the subject specifically. Nor am I claiming something of that nature. If I had made such a statement, and had insisted it was true, I'd be more than happy to back it up.

[Mikelus]

Um... McCain wants to buy up all the bad mortgages...

Um... McCain wants the government to go in and reform businesses...


Who's the f**king socialist now?

Oh no, only those bad and terrible Democrats are really socialists, the Republicans are conservative-socialists only. :hehe:

The typical fanatic only sees the "socialism" from the other party but not its own. BTW, universal healthcare is not bad, we enjoy it in France, Germany and most of Europe, we would never prefer the extremely inegalitarian and unfair American system.

Facts speak for themselves:

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday.

If the U.S. health care system performed as well as those of those top three countries, there would be 101,000 fewer deaths in the United States per year, according to researchers writing in the journal Health Affairs.

Researchers Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine tracked deaths that they deemed could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, and ranked nations on how they did.

They called such deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country's health care system.

Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance -- about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates -- probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

"I wouldn't say it (the last-place ranking) is a condemnation, because I think health care in the U.S. is pretty good if you have access. But if you don't, I think that's the main problem, isn't it?" Nolte said in a telephone interview.

In establishing their rankings, the researchers considered deaths before age 75 from numerous causes, including heart disease, stroke, certain cancers, diabetes, certain bacterial infections and complications of common surgical procedures.

Such deaths accounted for 23 percent of overall deaths in men and 32 percent of deaths in women, the researchers said.

France did best -- with 64.8 deaths deemed preventable by timely and effective health care per 100,000 people, in the study period of 2002 and 2003. Japan had 71.2 and Australia had 71.3 such deaths per 100,000 people. The United States had 109.7 such deaths per 100,000 people, the researchers said.

After the top three, Spain was fourth best, followed in order by Italy, Canada, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden, Greece, Austria, Germany, Finland, New Zealand, Denmark, Britain, Ireland and Portugal, with the United States last.

PREVIOUS RANKINGS

The researchers compared these rankings with rankings for the same 19 countries covering the period of 1997 and 1998. France and Japan also were first and second in those rankings, while the United States was 15th, meaning it fell four places in the latest rankings.

All the countries made progress in reducing preventable deaths from these earlier rankings, the researchers said. These types of deaths dropped by an average of 16 percent for the nations in the study, but the U.S. decline was only 4 percent.

The research was backed by the Commonwealth Fund, a private New York-based health policy foundation.

"It is startling to see the U.S. falling even farther behind on this crucial indicator of health system performance," Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen said.

"The fact that other countries are reducing these preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less, indicates that policy, goals and efforts to improve health systems make a difference," Schoen added in a statement.


Only narrow-minded people who whine permanently about how "evil" government is could accept such mediocrity.

[The Senator]

Obama: We don't need ACORN's help
Politico


OREGON, Ohio — Barack Obama for the first time on Tuesday addressed the ACORN controversy that Republicans are seeking to attach to his campaign, minimizing the impact of alleged voter registration fraud linked to the activist group and stressing ACORN is not advising his campaign.

“We’ve got the best voter registration and turnout and volunteer operation in politics right now, and we don’t need ACORN’s help,” he told reporters at the secluded leafy resort outside Toledo where he is preparing for Wednesday’s debate.

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which registers low-income and minority voters who tend to favor Democrats, is under siege for allegedly falsifying voter registrations, and Republicans have sought to taint Obama with the allegations.

Obama in the 1990s represented the group in a lawsuit, and on Tuesday, he said that “as an elected official, I’ve had interactions with” the Chicago branch of the group, which he said has “been active,” according to a pool report.

“But they are not advising our campaign,” stressed Obama, who himself worked as a community organizer in Chicago before attending law school.

Nevada authorities last week raided ACORN’s state headquarters after the branch submitted voter registrations with the names of celebrities including Dallas Cowboy stars Tony Romo and Terrell Owens, and other voters came forward alleging they were asked by ACORN employees to submit multiple registration forms.

Obama’s Republican rival John McCain pounced on the controversy, releasing a statement last week asserting that given “ACORN’s recent efforts to engage in voter fraud and to disrupt our political system, Obama’s affiliation with this group raises serious questions about his judgment and ability to lead this nation.”

McCain’s campaign has also called for an investigation of Obama’s ties to ACORN.

ACORN’s political action committee endorsed Obama’s campaign, which paid $832,598 to a consulting firm affiliated with ACORN for get-out-the-vote efforts, though it initially miscategorized the purpose of the payment.

“Obama has a responsibility to rein in ACORN,” said McCain running mate Sarah Palin, during an interview Tuesday with conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh.

Obama posited Tuesday that the alleged fraud likely was the result of a few bad actors, wouldn’t impact the election and shouldn’t be used by the GOP to try to bar voters from casting ballots on Election Day.

“My understanding in terms of the voter fraud — because having run a voter registration drive, I know how problems arise — this is typically a situation where ACORN probably paid people to get registrations, and these folks, not wanting to actually register people because that’s actually hard work, just went into a phone book or made up names and submitted false registrations to get paid,” he said.

“So there’s been fraud perpetrated probably on ACORN, if they paid these individuals and they actually didn’t do registrations, but this isn’t a situation where there’s actually people who are going to try to vote, ‘cause these are phony names, and it’s doubtful Tony Romo is gonna show up in Ohio to vote, so this is another one of these distractions that gets stirred up in the course of a campaign."

“But, what I want to make sure of is that this is not used as an excuse for the kind of voter suppression strategies and tactics that we’ve seen in the past. Let’s just make sure everybody is voting, everybody’s registered. Let’s make sure that everybody’s doing it in a lawful way,” he concluded.

[Handsome Rob]

Um... McCain wants to buy up all the bad mortgages...

Um... McCain wants the government to go in and reform businesses...


Who's the f**king socialist now?

Meh, he's a lite socialist. Obama's the rich, full-bodied socialist. :oldrazz:

[dnno1]

It might be best if McCain doesn't bring up ACORN tomorrow night. Here's why:

H_y2KwbhBJo

[terry78]

It might be best if McCain doesn't bring up ACORN tomorrow night. Here's why:

H_y2KwbhBJo

Awww, snizz-ap.

[dnno1]

You know, our worst fear is going to be the day they shut Youtube down. I am sure they are going to try for the next election.

[Gilpesh]

Meh, he's a lite socialist. Obama's the rich, full-bodied socialist. :oldrazz:

Rob... I'm just tired of hearing socialist as a reason to vote against Obama... cause they both have a little socialist in them but the government getting into business is a little worse... because that's not as easy to implement and get rid of, as taxes on the rich are.

But seriously... I'm just tired of the word socialist in Lazur's post, I mean, aren't you Rob? :oldrazz:

[The Senator]

Meh, he's a lite socialist. Obama's the rich, full-bodied socialist. :oldrazz:

Got a source to back that claim up?

[souvlaki]

Got a source to back that claim up?

Anyone that is even slightly off center in the political spectrum with a D next to their name is a socialist. You should know that by now.

[CaptainClown]

Anyone that is even slightly off center in the political spectrum with a D next to their name is a socialist. You should know that by now.
The witch/commie of the twenty first century.

[Superman]

McCain and all of his fans do know that "Voter Fraud" is not the same thing as "Voter Registration Fraud", Right? I mean there is a big difference between the two. :o

[The Senator]

Anyone that is even slightly off center in the political spectrum with a D next to their name is a socialist. You should know that by now.

Crap.

Well, I better get rid of my Obama '08 sign and replace it with a Bernie Sanders-Eugene Debs sign instead...

considering, you know, Obama isn't a socialist.

[Marx]

McCain and all of his fans do know that "Voter Fraud" is not the same thing as "Voter Registration Fraud", Right? I mean there is a big difference between the two. :o

I'm beginning to wonder that myself Supe...

[Oddzball]

Except Obama is guilty of the very same thing.:huh:

Would you care to cite examples of your claim instead of simply stating them?

[Knives]

McCain and all of his fans do know that "Voter Fraud" is not the same thing as "Voter Registration Fraud", Right? I mean there is a big difference between the two. :o

Honestly, I don't think they do.

[lazur]

And their party, can't forget that.

No, that describes you. I look at each candidate on the merits of their achievements. The problem with Obama is that he doesn't have any and he's incredibly secretive about his past outside of politics when it's the only thing we have to go on...

[lazur]

Got a source to back that claim up?

Does this mean that every time you share an educated opinion on something, we should ask for a link?

Any candidate who believes healthcare should be nationalized is, by definition, a socialist. Any candidate who says the rich should be taxed so that the wealth can be 'spread around' is a socialist. Any candidate who believes that a national healthcare system ON TOP of our already crushing 50 trillion dollar debt for these 'entitlement' programs is not only a socialist, but an irresponsible one at that.

[RAMORE]

Anyone else worried about the actions of ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now)? Its an organization that has long had ties to Obama and there are already allegation of ACORN recruiting voters to register multiple voting cards - a man interviewed said he registered 15 times with the encouragement of the organization.

ACORN is targeting vital swing states as well, even as it is being raided and investigated for voter fraud.

While I think at this point Obama will win no matter what ACORN does, this crisis is incredibly distressing.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/acornproject_vote_voting_drive.html

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mccain_voter_fraud/2008/09/22/133361.html

http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html


Agreed. And the fact he has such long ties to them and thier shady business hurts his credibility and will for many taint his win...if he wins i'm still holding out hope.

[Paradoxium]

:lmao:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZGEzMzUxZGE4OGM4MDhkZDEzMjM2YjM2OThiMTljOGU=

In Support of Bill Ayers [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

There's a petition making the rounds that has academics purportedly defending Ayers against unrepentant terrorist and other (factual) labels. It also has my name on it. It has Jonah's name is on it. And it includes others who you know obviously didn't sign it. One wonders how many names are actually legit. I'm at least audacious enough to hope there's more sense out there than the petition would suggest on its surface.

[Superman4ever]

Plouffe Fights ACORN Smears: It's A Smokescreen

After days of withering attacks against ACORN and implications that the Obama campaign was using the community organizing group to perpetuate voter fraud, aides to the Illinois Democrat fought back on Tuesday.

In a conference call with reporters, campaign manager David Plouffe called the charge that ACORN was illegally registering voters (and that Obama had nefarious ties to the organization) a cynical "smokescreen" and an attempt to discourage people from going to the polls.

"This is just the start of what is going to be a very deliberate and cynical attempt to try and create confusion and challenge people inappropriately," he said. "They clearly, strategically, believe the more people who vote in this election, the less their chances are [for victory]."

At one point, Plouffe chided the conservative echo chamber that had painted ACORN -- which helps poor communities with a number of issues including voter registration and affordable housing -- as a criminal enterprise.

"Fox News has turned themselves into the 24-hour ACORN channel," he said, adding later: "We are not particular concerned with these predictable Republican tactics."

The voter registration debate is, in fact, highly predictable. Each cycle, Democrats cry afoul about voter suppression, while Republicans bemoan fraud. Victory in such political trench-warfare is usually defined in media narratives rather than registration numbers. Although the New York Times recently reported that,"Tens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law."

In fact, despite a week of constant complaints, there has been only one lawsuit filed by a Republican group against ACORN's efforts -- The Buckeye Institute, an Ohio-based think tank, filed a state RICO action on Tuesday.

To a certain extent, the faux-outrage of conservatives this go around seems painfully transparent. John McCain, for example, gave the keynote speech at a rally co-sponsored by ACORN in 2006. Other Republicans have also praised the organization's efforts.

Nevertheless, on the conference call, the Obama campaign said it was prepared for legal battles over voter rolls should they occur either before or after the election. The team, as the Huffington Post reported, has a bevy of volunteer lawyers willing to go to work on local levels. But they don't necessarily foresee it getting to that point.

"We have a very active aggressive legal operation," said Obama's legal counsel, Bob Bauer. "But we are not terribly worried. I'm not quiet sure what Sarah Palin [who warned of ACORN stealing the election] has in mind... It is something we are going to be prepared to deal with."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/plouffe-fights-back-at-ac_n_134591.html

[lazur]

Plouffe Fights ACORN Smears: It's A Smokescreen



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/plouffe-fights-back-at-ac_n_134591.html

Well you better tell the FBI that. They don't seem to agree since they're investigating ACORN in, oh, at least four states now?

But I'm sure the FBI is completely in the tank for McCain. That MUST explain it. :o

[The Senator]

Well you better tell the FBI that. They don't seem to agree since they're investigating ACORN in, oh, at least four states now?

But I'm sure the FBI is completely in the tank for McCain. That MUST explain it. :o

Silly lazur, we all know that the FBI is a non-partisan governmental agency. :yay:

[Marx]

Well you better tell the FBI that. They don't seem to agree since they're investigating ACORN in, oh, at least four states now?

But I'm sure the FBI is completely in the tank for McCain. That MUST explain it. :o

You do realize that Voter REGISTRATION Fraud and Voter FRAUD are completely different, right? There is no way that Mickey Mouse or 'Bubba J. Redneck' (as I believe Jman puts it :cwink:) is going to be able to vote without proper identification. There are measures put in place to stop these kinds of happenings AT THE POLLS. Just because someone has been registered to vote does not equate to an ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Let me say that again - JUST BECAUSE A NAME HAS BEEN REGISTERED DOES NOT EQUATE TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

[Superman4ever]

You do realize that Voter REGISTRATION Fraud and Voter FRAUD are completely different, right? There is no way that Mickey Mouse or 'Bubba J. Redneck' (as I believe Jman puts it :cwink:) is going to be able to vote without proper identification. There are measures put in place to stop these kinds of happenings AT THE POLLS. Just because someone has been registered to vote does not equate to an ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Let me say that again - JUST BECAUSE A NAME HAS BEEN REGISTERED DOES NOT EQUATE TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Wut yous sayz?

[The Senator]

You do realize that Voter REGISTRATION Fraud and Voter FRAUD are completely different, right? There is no way that Mickey Mouse or 'Bubba J. Redneck' (as I believe Jman puts it :cwink:) is going to be able to vote without proper identification. There are measures put in place to stop these kinds of happenings AT THE POLLS. Just because someone has been registered to vote does not equate to an ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Let me say that again - JUST BECAUSE A NAME HAS BEEN REGISTERED DOES NOT EQUATE TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Bucktooth B. Redneck, sir. Get it right :cmad:

[Marx]

Bucktooth B. Redneck, sir. Get it right :cmad:

So I mentioned Bucktooth's brother then...get off my case! :oldrazz:

[The Senator]

So I mentioned Bucktooth's brother then...get off my case! :oldrazz:

He doesn't have a brother. He has a brother-father. :oldrazz:

[lazur]

You do realize that Voter REGISTRATION Fraud and Voter FRAUD are completely different, right? There is no way that Mickey Mouse or 'Bubba J. Redneck' (as I believe Jman puts it :cwink:) is going to be able to vote without proper identification. There are measures put in place to stop these kinds of happenings AT THE POLLS. Just because someone has been registered to vote does not equate to an ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Let me say that again - JUST BECAUSE A NAME HAS BEEN REGISTERED DOES NOT EQUATE TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

You do realize that the FBI is investigating VOTER FRAUD - not VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD - right?

[Marx]

He doesn't have a brother. He has a brother-father. :oldrazz:

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification! :cwink:http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[Marx]

You do realize that the FBI is investigating VOTER FRAUD - not VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD - right?

Please get your facts straight before you try to correct me.

FBI INVESTIGATION POSSIBLE VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD
http://www.koat.com/politics/17679498/detail.html

STATES PROBE POSSIBLE VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-vote-fraud_frioct10,0,2159694.story

MISSOURI OFFICIALS SUSPECT FAKE VOTER REGISTRATION
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNf_-bBZls_mvLIRCFJtlkMM3mhAD93MM6480

I can keep posting links if you'd like. (Not that I believe you'll read any of them anyway.)

[The Senator]

You do realize that the FBI is investigating VOTER FRAUD - not VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD - right?

:yay:

[lazur]

Please get your facts straight before you try to correct me.

FBI INVESTIGATION POSSIBLE VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD
http://www.koat.com/politics/17679498/detail.html

STATES PROBE POSSIBLE VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-vote-fraud_frioct10,0,2159694.story

MISSOURI OFFICIALS SUSPECT FAKE VOTER REGISTRATION
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNf_-bBZls_mvLIRCFJtlkMM3mhAD93MM6480

I can keep posting links if you'd like. (Not that I believe you'll read any of them anyway.)

The court found Brunner was breaking the law by not purging the state's centralized database of potentially fraudulent names. The court noted that this database includes large numbers of names submitted by The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN -- including 65,000 in Cuyahoga County alone over the last year.

ACORN's Las Vegas office was raided on Tuesday by state authorities as part of a voter fraud investigation.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/judge-orders-ohio-elections-chief-verify-voters/

[souvlaki]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/judge-orders-ohio-elections-chief-verify-voters/

Do you go to any news sites outside of Fox News?

[lazur]

Do you go to any news sites outside of Fox News?

Fox is mainstream. I won't cater to your nonsensical requests for additional news sources just as you wouldn't cater to mine if I asked you to post something other than a CNN link. But if you're truly asking out of objectivity and not sarcasm or contempt, you can get to Google just as easily as I can.

[souvlaki]

Fox is mainstream. I won't cater to your nonsensical requests for additional news sources just as you wouldn't cater to mine if I asked you to post something other than a CNN link. But if you're truly asking out of objectivity and not sarcasm or contempt, you can get to Google just as easily as I can.

Please, I beg you please track down the last time I posted ANYTHING from CNN. I don't even like CNN as a network, why would I post anything from their website?

[The Senator]

Fox is mainstream. I won't cater to your nonsensical requests for additional news sources just as you wouldn't cater to mine if I asked you to post something other than a CNN link. But if you're truly asking out of objectivity and not sarcasm or contempt, you can get to Google just as easily as I can.

Oh lazur, you should know that Fox News has a conservative bias, as do the many blog stories you post here. If you are going to post "information" from those sites, than you should never ask other posters here to post unbiased information as well. Usually, this is referred to as a "double standard." :yay:

[Marx]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/judge-orders-ohio-elections-chief-verify-voters/

:facepalm

Leave it to you to use a FOX News article as a rebuttal. The point remains, YOU CANNOT HAVE VOTER FRAUD UNLESS THE FAKE NAME THAT WAS REGISTERED ACTUALLY CASTS A VOTE. And unless I missed something, we haven't had the general election yet. ON THAT BASIS, it is registration fraud.

[souvlaki]

And that goes for MSNBC, and the Daily Kos as well. In other words, epic fail on your part, lazur.

[lazur]

And that goes for MSNBC, and the Daily Kos as well. In other words, epic fail on your part, lazur.

LOL I do not equate the Daily Kos with Fox, and if you do then that's absolutely pathetic.

Fox may have a conservative bias, but it's still mainstream and still has more viewers than the LIBERALLY biased CNN.

But ... other than being on a left of center board, why is bias on YOUR side better than bias on MINE? Why is it okay to cite links to sites which lean FAR left, but not okay to link to sites which lean SLIGHTLY right?

And before you answer - keep in mind that Fox's polls are accurate. They show Obama winning. Keep in mind that it was Chris Wallace, a Fox pundit, who nailed McCain and Palin. Keep in mind all of the surprise members of this very board have expressed at some of the Fox stories which appeared to take the side of Obama over McCain.

You can continue to cry foul every time a Fox link is posted, I really do NOT care, but your double standards with respect to what YOU consider to be a 'fair' news source is completely out of whack when you believe that you can post crap from the Huffington post and expect people who are opposed your view to equate that with credibility.

[The Senator]

:facepalm

Leave it to you to use a FOX News article as a rebuttal. The point remains, YOU CANNOT HAVE VOTER FRAUD UNLESS THE FAKE NAME THAT WAS REGISTERED ACTUALLY CASTS A VOTE. And unless I missed something, we haven't had the general election yet. ON THAT BASIS, it is registration fraud.

Now, Marx, we should be nice to lazur. After all, he is right to his opinion-- however factually inaccurate it may be. For example, if he wants to believe that Sarah Palin is innocent because she said so-- why, who are we to criticize? Let him have his cake and eat it too. :yay:

[The Senator]

LOL I do not equate the Daily Kos with Fox, and if you do then that's absolutely pathetic.

Fox may have a conservative bias, but it's still mainstream and still has more viewers than the LIBERALLY biased CNN.

But ... other than being on a left of center board, why is bias on YOUR side better than bias on MINE? Why is it okay to cite links to sites which lean FAR left, but not okay to link to sites which lean SLIGHTLY right?

And before you answer - keep in mind that Fox's polls are accurate. They show Obama winning. Keep in mind that it was Chris Wallace, a Fox pundit, who nailed McCain and Palin. Keep in mind all of the surprise members of this very board have expressed at some of the Fox stories which appeared to take the side of Obama over McCain.

You can continue to cry foul every time a Fox link is posted, I really do NOT care, but your double standards with respect to what YOU consider to be a 'fair' news source is completely out of whack when you believe that you can post crap from the Huffington post and expect people who are opposed your view to equate that with credibility.

But how can you have a bias when you are politically in the center? :cwink:

[souvlaki]

LOL I do not equate the Daily Kos with Fox, and if you do then that's absolutely pathetic.

Fox may have a conservative bias, but it's still mainstream and still has more viewers than the LIBERALLY biased CNN.

But ... other than being on a left of center board, why is bias on YOUR side better than bias on MINE? Why is it okay to cite links to sites which lean FAR left, but not okay to link to sites which lean SLIGHTLY right?

And before you answer - keep in mind that Fox's polls are accurate. They show Obama winning. Keep in mind that it was Chris Wallace, a Fox pundit, who nailed McCain and Palin. Keep in mind all of the surprise members of this very board have expressed at some of the Fox stories which appeared to take the side of Obama over McCain.

You can continue to cry foul every time a Fox link is posted, I really do NOT care, but your double standards with respect to what YOU consider to be a 'fair' news source is completely out of whack when you believe that you can post crap from the Huffington post and expect people who opposed your view to equate that to credibility.

Just out of curiosity, what sources do you consider unbiased? And I asked a simple question which you never answered. Do you view news sites other than Fox News? Because I have yet to see you post ANYTHING that wasn't a Fox News link.

[lazur]

But how can you have a bias when you are politically in the center? :cwink:

I'm conservative with some liberal views, and I've stated as much. However, to me, our economy (specifically NOT putting it back into the hands of those who screwed it up in the first place) is more important than whether or not gay couples can get married.

[The Senator]

Just out of curiosity, what sources do you consider unbiased? And I asked a simple question which you never answered. Do you view news sites other than Fox News? Because I have yet to see you post ANYTHING that wasn't a Fox News link.

The National Enquirer :o

[The Senator]

I'm conservative with some liberal views, and I've stated as much. However, to me, our economy (specifically NOT putting it back into the hands of those who screwed it up in the first place) is more important than whether or not gay couples can get married.

But you have stated that you are a centrist. Silly me, I guess, for making presumptions like that. I apologize for being so aggressive towards your conservatism. :yay:

[Marx]

Now, Marx, we should be nice to lazur. After all, he is right to his opinion-- however factually inaccurate it may be. For example, if he wants to believe that Sarah Palin is innocent because she said so-- why, who are we to criticize? Let him have his cake and eat it too. :yay:

I always value differing opinions...

when they are constructive, intelligent, and objective. If some wish to continue to live in another world devoid of truth and logic, I won't stop them.

[terry78]

Now they're talking about how they'll be suspecting the votes that take place in my area of Northwest Indiana as fraud....early votes, anyways. So now I can't even vote early, because they might **** it up somehow. :cmad:

[Paradoxium]

So anyone here okay with the fact this organization is strong arming banks into lending money to unqualified people? You know with the - you know what - is happening right now. NEVERMIND THE ASSINE ASSOCIATIONS of Obama or McCain...?

Anyone?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

[terry78]

So anyone here okay with the fact this organization is strong arming banks into lending money to unqualified people? You know with the who - you know what - is happening right now. NEVERMIND THE ASSINE ASSOCIATIONS of Obama or McCain...?

Anyone?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

Hello...?

http://pervegalit.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ben-stein.jpg

[Paradoxium]

This thread is teH Puffy! :cmad:

[Bill]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/judge-orders-ohio-elections-chief-verify-voters/

Fox News is either confused or referring to a different investigation. Acorn dealt with Voter Registrations, it is Voter Registration Fraud. Voter Fraud occurs during the actual vote process when a voter votes ineligibly. That's it. Anything else falls under the purview of some other type of illegal activity. Instead of reading one leaning news blog or another, just look up the damn definition of voter fraud on a neutral site (http://truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf) and save yourself from embarrassment, confusion or both.

[lazur]

But how can you have a bias when you are politically in the center? :cwink:

People in the center get news sources from all sides, including Fox and CNN. Most people that I've observed on this board source everything BUT Fox news. (And I've linked plenty of CNN and other news outlet stories to qualify as someone who uses both perspectives.)

Thus, I'm not understanding where your opinion that I'm 'biased' is coming from, at least as it pertains to which news sites I link.

[The Senator]

People in the center get news sources from all sides, including Fox and CNN. Most people that I've observed on this board source everything BUT Fox news. (And I've linked plenty of CNN and other news outlet stories to qualify as someone who uses both perspectives.)

Thus, I'm not understanding where your opinion that I'm 'biased' is coming from, at least as it pertains to which news sites I link.

Because FOX News was founded by a conservative who publicly stated that he wanted a conservative-leaning news source? And in the years since FOX News was founded, the anchors and pundits have represented that conservatism on a regular basis?

I mean, I think it is pretty obvious why most of us do not consider FOX News to be a legitimate source. You obviously missed the news footage where one of the anchors was in a diner in PA and asked everyone who they were voting for. The majority of the customers said Obama, very few said McCain, and the anchor said it was "split." You also missed the giddiness of the morning anchors twenty months ago when a rumor leaked that Obama may have attended a Madrassa as a child in Indonesia (This... is... HUGE!!!1!!one!!1! :grin:).

And, we obviously cannot forget that FOX News was the news network which started talking about the John Edwards scandal three weeks before Edwards admitted any wrong doing, using the National Enquirer as the SOURCE of the information (funny... you should know about that, right?). Meanwhile, they barely covered the Larry Craig scandal when it was ongoing two years ago, and sued Al Franken-- a satirist known for his liberal views-- over his use of the phrase "Fair and Balanced" in the title of one of his books, a phrase which FOX News apparently thought they owned. I mean, do you not see how they are willing to grasp for straws to prove their biases?

Post legitimate news sources from non-biased websites... or at least be kind enough to point out that they are from biased websites and DON'T use them as the crux of your argument. I have posted one blog story in the past week discussing how McCain's transition leader may have lobbied for Saddam Hussein, to respond to your pursuit to label Obama a terrorist because he served with Bill Ayers while working in Chicago during the mid-1990s. In fact, most of us "liberal" posters here are able to post non-biased articles on a regular basis, whereas you do not, so stop spewing bull **** accusations about us when you can't abide by the standards you set for everyone else.

It's called adhering to the standards you set. If you can't do that, then don't expect anyone else to.

End of story.

[Marx]

Don't waste your time Jman. Your stress level will thank you! :cwink:

[souvlaki]

I knew this all sounded familiar:

GOP Halts Paid Voter-Drive Program

By Ashley Powers and Lynn Doan
March 08, 2006 in print edition B-3

The California Republican Party has suspended its fee-based voter registration program while prosecutors in San Bernardino and Orange counties investigate possible registration fraud connected to private firms hired by the party, GOP officials said.

The suspension came after election officials in the two counties discovered thousands of flawed registration forms and received complaints from residents who said they had been improperly registered as Republicans.

Officials in both counties have turned over the forms to local prosecutors and contacted the California secretary of state.

The voter registration program, in which the GOP paid private contractors $3 for each new registration submitted, was credited with adding 750,000 Republican registrations to state voter rolls in the last three years.

“It provides us with no benefit to wrongly register voters,” said GOP spokesman Hector Barajas, adding that the party would continue to register voters using volunteers.

For three decades, the state Republican and Democratic parties have accused each other of voter registration fraud, said Bruce Cain, director of UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies.

But the process has evolved since party volunteers collected most of the registration forms.

“When you switched from party activists to paid people, the possibility of carelessness or fraud goes up because they’re doing it for a buck,” Cain said.

State Democrats also run a so-called bounty program, but pay $4 per registration form only to volunteers affiliated with party clubs or committees, said party Chairman Art Torres.

“There’s an inherent problem with using the private sector for the party machine,” Torres said.

In Orange County, the allegations center on a subcontractor working for Bader & Associates, a Newport Beach-based signature collection firm run by Thomas Bader.

Contractor Christopher Dinoff appeared to be connected to the 100 or so cases of allegedly improper voter registration that elections officials turned over to the district attorney’s office last week, Orange County election officials said. Dinoff did not return calls seeking comment.

About three dozen Orange County Democrats complained that they were signed up as Republicans, and a number of the voter registration forms submitted to the registrar’s office had invalid phone numbers and addresses, election officials said.

Bader, the firm’s owner, ran voter registration programs for the state Republican Party from 2003 to 2005 and for the San Bernardino County GOP for about six years, party officials said.

“We tried to clean it up, but you put yourself at risk because all [workers] out there have to do something a little shady, and all you can do is enforce the standards and not pay people when you catch fraud,” Bader said Tuesday. Bader said he wanted to get out of the voter registration business, but would remain as a petition circulator.

Bader said he had hired Dinoff in Orange County and also John Burkett of Riverside, who took charge of the San Bernardino County GOP’s voter registration program this year.

Officials say Burkett has turned in thousands of allegedly flawed voter registration forms to the San Bernardino County registrar’s office, including 1,800 that lacked driver’s license numbers or other official forms of identification, which is required by state law.

The Registrar of Voters also received complaints from people who said they were improperly registered as Republicans.

Burkett has said the flaws could have been caused by mistakes in the collection process or have occurred because he was unaware of a new law requiring the identification numbers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/08/local/me-voterfraud8

[SentinelMind]

Oh no, only those bad and terrible Democrats are really socialists, the Republicans are conservative-socialists only. :hehe:

The typical fanatic only sees the "socialism" from the other party but not its own. BTW, universal healthcare is not bad, we enjoy it in France, Germany and most of Europe, we would never prefer the extremely inegalitarian and unfair American system.

Facts speak for themselves:



Only narrow-minded people who whine permanently about how "evil" government is could accept such mediocrity.

Then why does France and Germany have a higher crude death rate than USA?

[Mikelus]

^^ And a lot of less developed nations have a lower rate than the US, so?* Is not that important, but health care quality and coverage is.

* https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

[jaguarr]

I knew this all sounded familiar:



http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/08/local/me-voterfraud8

LMAO! GOP has it's very own in-house ACORN. :hehe:

jag

[The Professor]

I suppose Mickey Mouse supports Chuck Baldwin?

[jaguarr]

http://www.freep.com/article/20081017/NEWS15/81017065

ELECTION 2008
Obama's legal team seeks special prosecutor for voter registration probe

By TODD SPANGLER • FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF • October 17, 2008

WASHINGTON – Barack Obama’s legal team wants a special prosecutor to determine whether partisan politics is at play in a reported though unconfirmed Justice Department investigation of a voter registration effort which has been the target of numerous complaints of late, including one in Michigan.
Advertisement

With the election just over two weeks away, Bob Bauer, Obama’s chief lawyer, said in a conference call with reporters this afternoon that he is asking U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey to to hand over to special prosecutor Nora Dannehy any probe into what Bauer called “bogus claims of vote fraud” that mirror concerns raised by Republicans two years ago.

According to a recent Justice Department report, those issues played a role in the controversy over the forced resignations of nine former federal prosecutors.

That report – performed by the inspector general overseeing the Justice Department and others – found that David Iglesias, the former U.S. attorney in New Mexico, “was removed because of complaints to the Department of Justice and the White House … about Iglesias’ handling of voter fraud” cases. He had been pushed to bring a case against ACORN – the Association of Community Activists for Reform Now, the group at the center of the current controversy.

“Are we seeing a repeat now?” said Bauer. “It would seem that we are.”

Justice Department didn’t immediately have a comment about Bauer’s letter – though it was unclear they would given that no investigation has publicly been announced and would not be. In his letter, Bauer noted that in citing unnamed sources for the report, the Associated Press said “Justice Department regulations forbid discussing ongoing investigations particularly close to an election.”

Bauer said there appears to be an “unholy alliance” between law enforcement officials and Republican officials, including presidential nominee John McCain’s campaign. In his letter, Bauer said in a footnote that several of the nominee’s supporters in Congress have written to the Justice Department “pressuring them to investigate ACORN.”

Also, word of the investigation was leaked within a day of McCain’s saying at Wednesday’s final presidential debate that the group “is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of our democracy.”

Rep. Candice Miller, a Harrison Township Republican and former Michigan secretary of state, added her voice to the call for an investigation, saying today, “This rampant abuse must be stopped.” Earlier in the day, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis again questioned Obama’s links to the group and used much the same language, saying while Democrats believe Republicans are engaged in voter suppression, there is evidence of “rampant voter fraud” that must be addressed.

While there have been numerous reports linking ACORN workers to falsified voter registration cards, however, there has been little – if any – evidence of a vast voter-fraud conspiracy Most of the cases which have come to light so far have involved a relatively small number of bad registration cards – and while elections officials have said checking them means more work few for them, few have suggested publicly that false registration cards lead to fraudulent votes being cast.

Even Davis, in his call with reporters, noted that “we don’t know how big the problem is” and that outside of some state investigative reports, “I don’t think anybody at this stage has any sense of how widespread the fraud has been.” Bauer, in his letter to Mukasey, argued that McCain’s claim of widespread fraud are “entirely unsupported” while Republicans want to “harass” and “impede” voters by challenging them at the polls, an accusation GOP officials have denied, saying they only want to combat fraud.

At the center of the debate is ACORN, a community rights organization which – among other activities – works to register voters, particularly in low- and moderate-income areas. This year, they say they have registered some 1.3 million new voters nationwide, particularly in battleground states. In Michigan, the group says it has registered more than 200,0000 new voters.

In the past, some of ACORN’s workers – who are paid by the hour to register voters – have been convicted of falsifying voter registration cards. ACORN acknowledged that some workers skirt responsibilities by falsifying cards but the organization maintains that it double-checks cards before turning them in. When it finds suspicious ones, it flags them for election officials – though still turns them in – and fires workers caught falsifying cards.

“They’ve done a much better job of weeding out the stuff that shouldn’t be there,” said Lynnette Hagen, a deputy clerk in Saginaw, who said maybe as many as 5% of the 2,500 or so registrations ACORN has turned in there might be bad. They catch the ones that are bad, she said – and while it’s possible that a false one might get through, it’s unlikely someone is going to purposely show up at the polls and try to vote under it, especially when he or she is going to be asked to produce identification.

“There’s no perfect way to do it,” said Hagen.

As the election has gotten closer this year, meanwhile, the scorn heaped on ACORN has gotten much deeper. In Nevada, state authorities searched the group’s Las Vegas offices, saying they had evidence of cards being turned in with names of players for the Dallas Cowboys, for instance, and there have been concerns raised in various other states as well. The Republican National Committee, on its Web site, keeps a running list of stories about the group’s activities.

In Michigan, the Free Press reported last month that clerks were seeing numerous problems with registration cards turned in by ACORN, which led state Attorney General Mike Cox to look into the matter. This week, he announced the arrest of a man for allegedly falsifying six registration cards in Jackson, Mich. ACORN officials in Michigan argued that the timing – coming this week – appeared political, but an official in Cox’s office said that had nothing to do with it, that the investigation took time.

Fueling part of the ACORN controversy has been Obama’s links to the group and the McCain campaign’s demands that they be fully and publicly vetted.

Obama does have ties to the group, though he has repeatedly said they are straightforward. He was one of a group of lawyers – including Justice Department representatives – who represented ACORN, the League of Women Voters and other groups in a voter registration case against the state of Illinois in the 1990s, and he also sat on a foundation board which gave money to the community organizing group. Obama – a former community organizer – also attended training sessions for the group in the past but never worked for it.

His campaign also paid more than $800,000 to an ACORN subsidiary this year to help get out the vote – not register voters – during the primary season.

Meanwhile, in 2006, McCain spoke to several groups in Miami, including ACORN, though his campaign has downplayed the significance of that engagement, noting that it was an immigration forum at the local archdiocese and the SEIU were also taking part.

jag

[jaguarr]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/730636.html

Death threat, vandalism hit ACORN after accusations
By GREG GORDON
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON -- An ACORN community organizer received a death threat and the liberal-leaning voter registration group's Boston and Seattle offices were vandalized Thursday, reflecting mounting tensions over its role in registering 1.3 million mostly poor and minority Americans to vote next month.

Attorneys for the Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now were notifying the FBI and the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division of the incidents, said Brian Kettenring, a Florida-based spokesman for the group.

Republicans, including presidential candidate John McCain, have verbally attacked the group repeatedly in recent days, alleging a widespread vote-fraud scheme, although they've provided little proof. It was disclosed Thursday that the FBI is examining whether thousands of fraudulent voter-registration applications submitted by some ACORN workers were part of a systematic effort or isolated incidents.

Kettenring said that a senior ACORN staffer in Cleveland, after appearing on television this week, got an e-mail that said she "is going to have her life ended."

A female staffer in Providence, R.I., got a threatening call from someone who said words to the effect of "We know you get off work at 9," then uttered racial epithets, he said.

McClatchy Newspapers is withholding the women's names because of the threats.

Separately, vandals broke into the group's Boston and Seattle offices and stole computers, Kettenring said.

The incidents came the day after McCain charged in the final presidential debate that ACORN's voter-registration drive "may be perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history" and may be "destroying the fabric of democracy."

McCain's comments provoked a response from ACORN.

"I would not say that Senator McCain is inciting violence," Kettenring said, "but I would say that his statements about the role of this manufactured scandal were totally outlandish. We would call on Senator McCain to tamp down the fringe elements in his party."

McCain's campaign didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.

Kettenring said that ACORN had received growing amounts of hate mail in recent weeks, but "the campaign debate sort of tipped it over to a scary point, where raising allegations of voter fraud went from a cynical campaign ploy to really inciting racial violence."

Since McCain's remarks, ACORN's 87 offices across the country have received hundreds of hostile e-mails, many of them containing racial slurs, Kettenring said. "We believe that these are specifically McCain supporters" sending the messages, he said.

The e-mail to the Cleveland employee was traced to a Facebook Web page in the name of a Baltimore man. It featured a photo of a McCain-Palin sign.

Kettenring said that the bulk of the e-mails had been either "flat-out racist" or had racial overtones. Most of the group's 400 members and about 80 percent of the 13,000 voter-registration canvassers are African-American or Latino.

It's unclear whether the alleged threats violated federal law, but Jonah Goldman, the director of the National Campaign for Fair Elections at the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, a nonpartisan, nonprofit legal organization that battles discrimination, argued that the Voting Rights Act should apply.

"A real concern is the impact that these terrible acts have on the people who registered through these registration drives," Goldman said. "Legitimate, eligible voters who sign up through these registration drives may be understandably intimidated and choose not to show up at the polls, and the Voting Rights Act prevents voter intimidation."


Yayyyyy! McCain inspires more people to make death threats and engage in criminal acts against people he doesn't like.

jag

[Oddzball]

You do realize that Voter REGISTRATION Fraud and Voter FRAUD are completely different, right? There is no way that Mickey Mouse or 'Bubba J. Redneck' (as I believe Jman puts it :cwink:) is going to be able to vote without proper identification. There are measures put in place to stop these kinds of happenings AT THE POLLS. Just because someone has been registered to vote does not equate to an ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

Let me say that again - JUST BECAUSE A NAME HAS BEEN REGISTERED DOES NOT EQUATE TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL VOTE.

MORE TO THE POINT: By LAW every voter registration HAS to be turned in as written. ACORN called attention to some of the names they'd gotten. They aren't being investigated, some people who were paid by them to get legitimate registrations did not do so.

[fifthfiend]

Wow, what an unbelievably moronic and ignorant thread. Oh wait, StorminNormin started it? My bad, it's a totally believably moronic and ignorant thread.

What's that, the same administration which has spent its entire term of office chasing nonexistent (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin) "vote fraud", to the point of firing US Attorneys for nothing more than refusing to prosecute such non-existent cases (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_states_attorneys/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), is continuing to do so? Oh, fancy that.

Anyone who actually knows the first thing about democracy as it operates here in the United States of America would understand that the non-exsistent form of vote fraud of which ACORN is accused would be a ridiculous, counterproductive waste of time for any group of people interested in influencing an election. That of course requires someone to 1. know things and 2. care about democracy, which naturally excludes Stormie and his ilk. Protip: in a country where at best 60% of eligible voters actually vote, there's not a lot of point in inventing imaginary voters, when for the same amount of work and substantially lower risk of going to prison you'd have a lot more success finding some actual people and getting them to go vote.

Of course that's what actually pisses the Republican Party off so much - the prospect of citizens actually casting the votes to which they are entitled, as though they lived in a democracy or something. It's only natural for the Republicans, who openly hate and revile democracy and good government, to demonize any organization which would try to make that happen.

[redfirebird2008]

Voter registration fraud doesn't mean a damn bit of anything. If you register someone to vote 50 times and they only vote 1 time, where's the fraud? If you register a dead person to vote, what's going to happen? Are they magically going to come back from the dead to vote? Here is actual voter fraud:

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200810170676

This is the same kind of crap that was going on in 2004.

[Bathead]

All VR fraud does is to skew the numbers to make it difficult to determine exactly how many voters of any party is involved in a particular election, it has absolutely NO effect on the actual election. Voter fraud is an entirely different animal.

[Handsome Rob]

Voter registration fraud doesn't mean a damn bit of anything. If you register someone to vote 50 times and they only vote 1 time, where's the fraud? If you register a dead person to vote, what's going to happen? Are they magically going to come back from the dead to vote? Here is actual voter fraud:

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200810170676

This is the same kind of crap that was going on in 2004.

In registering the same person to vote 50 times. That's a misrepresentation (50 times) of a fact (the existence of one person) with a willful intent to deceive (to cause 49 more "people" than actually exist) to the point that damage is caused (to the integrity of the voter registration process).

That's why they call it voter registration fraud--because the act itself is fraudulent.

And here's how you get a dead person to vote--you don't require ID at the polling place. So, you go in and cast your vote. Then, you go hours later and recast your vote as said dead individual. This is a major reason why we should require ID in order to cast a vote, regardless of how many people cry "racism" and "discrimination."

[redfirebird2008]

In registering the same person to vote 50 times. That's a misrepresentation (50 times) of a fact (the existence of one person) with a willful intent to deceive (to cause 49 more "people" than actually exist) to the point that damage is caused (to the integrity of the voter registration process).

That's why they call it voter registration fraud--because the act itself is fraudulent.

And here's how you get a dead person to vote--you don't require ID at the polling place. So, you go in and cast your vote. Then, you go hours later and recast your vote as said dead individual. This is a major reason why we should require ID in order to cast a vote, regardless of how many people cry "racism" and "discrimination."

I had to show an ID when I voted in the Texas primary earlier this year. And I seem to remember having to show ID when I voted in the general election 4 years ago.

[Handsome Rob]

I had to show an ID when I voted in the Texas primary earlier this year. And I seem to remember having to show ID when I voted in the general election 4 years ago.

You could also show a utility bill with your name and address on it in Texas, and that would pass as ID. If you ask me, that's ridiculous and begging for misuse. A photo ID issued by the state ought to be required. If people want to cry about the poor not being able to afford to buy a state ID, then tack the cost onto the end of one of their welfare checks, specifically denoted as being for state photo ID. If that's what it costs to help ensure the integrity of our voting system, I'd be for it.

[redfirebird2008]

You could also show a utility bill with your name and address on it in Texas, and that would pass as ID. If you ask me, that's ridiculous and begging for misuse. A photo ID issued by the state ought to be required. If people want to cry about the poor not being able to afford to buy a state ID, then tack the cost onto the end of one of their welfare checks, specifically denoted as being for state photo ID. If that's what it costs to help ensure the integrity of our voting system, I'd be for it.

I agree. I had no idea that you could use a utility bill as ID. I always just pull out my driver's license when they ask for ID.

[Kurosawa]

You could also show a utility bill with your name and address on it in Texas, and that would pass as ID. If you ask me, that's ridiculous and begging for misuse. A photo ID issued by the state ought to be required. If people want to cry about the poor not being able to afford to buy a state ID, then tack the cost onto the end of one of their welfare checks, specifically denoted as being for state photo ID. If that's what it costs to help ensure the integrity of our voting system, I'd be for it.

Do you feel that voters should also receive a receipt once they have voted?

[Oddzball]

In registering the same person to vote 50 times. That's a misrepresentation (50 times) of a fact (the existence of one person) with a willful intent to deceive (to cause 49 more "people" than actually exist) to the point that damage is caused (to the integrity of the voter registration process).

That's why they call it voter registration fraud--because the act itself is fraudulent.

And here's how you get a dead person to vote--you don't require ID at the polling place. So, you go in and cast your vote. Then, you go hours later and recast your vote as said dead individual. This is a major reason why we should require ID in order to cast a vote, regardless of how many people cry "racism" and "discrimination."

Unless the registration leads to someone actually voting, the harm done to the system is negligible. It is Election Fraud, where votes are miscounted intentionally where things really can be skewed.

[Handsome Rob]

Do you feel that voters should also receive a receipt once they have voted?

Yes. Absolutely. The idea of pure electronic/computerized voting with no printed record gives me chills, and the vote I cast yesterday was that way. For auditing purposes, there should always be some printed receipt or record of the vote cast if the vote is going to be done on computer.

If it were up to me, if electronic/computerized voting was used, two receipts would be printed: one to be kept by election officials and one to be kept by the voter.

[Handsome Rob]

Unless the registration leads to someone actually voting, the harm done to the system is negligible. It is Election Fraud, where votes are miscounted intentionally where things really can be skewed.

But the potential for real voter fraud is there, and actual voter fraud can only be easier to commit whenever voter registration fraud is present.

Obviously, actual voter fraud causes more damage because of its direct relation to voting, but that should not minimize the reaction that we should have to voter registration fraud.

[jaguarr]

Yes. Absolutely. The idea of pure electronic/computerized voting with no printed record gives me chills, and the vote I cast yesterday was that way. For auditing purposes, there should always be some printed receipt or record of the vote cast if the vote is going to be done on computer.

If it were up to me, if electronic/computerized voting was used, two receipts would be printed: one to be kept by election officials and one to be kept by the voter.

I agree with you on this one. The electronic voting is wayyyyy too susceptible to tampering and hacking. The damn voting machines run Windows operating systems for Christ's sake! The most insecure operating systems on the planet!

jag

[Superman4ever]

The REAL Voter Fraud and YOU!

rRfJtnfQDgg&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/18/172558/32/882/634737

[MaskedManJRK]

Not sure if this has been posted here, but this appears to be a pretty well-researched story on this ACORN controversy.

http://www.slate.com/id/2202428/


Large-scale, coordinated vote stealing doesn't happen (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/oct/13/election-acorn-voter-fraud). The incentives—unlike the incentives for registration fraud—just aren't there. In an interview this week with Salon (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/15/voter_suppression/), Lorraine Minnite of Barnard College, who has studied vote fraud systematically, noted that "between 2002 to 2005 only one person was found guilty of registration fraud. Twenty others were found guilty of voting while ineligible and five were guilty of voting more than once. That's 26 criminal voters." Twenty-six criminal voters despite the fact that U.S. attorneys, like David Iglesias in New Mexico (http://www.slate.com/id/2166469/), were fired for searching high and low for vote-fraud cases to prosecute and coming up empty (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0810/S00146.htm). Twenty-six criminal voters despite the fact that five days before the 2006 election, then-interim U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman exuberantly (and futilely) indicted four ACORN workers, even when Justice Department policy barred such prosecutions in the days before elections. RNC General Counsel Sean Cairncross has said he is unaware (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/acorn-responds-senator-mccains-desperate/story.aspx?guid=%7B2C7D3623-2AED-4E30-B46B-B9D8886E96FF%7D&dist=hppr) of a single improper vote cast because of bad cards submitted in the course of a voter-registration effort. Republican campaign consultant Royal Masset says (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17942818), "[I]n-person voter fraud is nonexistent. It doesn't happen, and ... makes no sense because who's going to take the risk of going to jail on something so blatant that maybe changes one vote?"

[Kurosawa]

Yes. Absolutely. The idea of pure electronic/computerized voting with no printed record gives me chills, and the vote I cast yesterday was that way. For auditing purposes, there should always be some printed receipt or record of the vote cast if the vote is going to be done on computer.

If it were up to me, if electronic/computerized voting was used, two receipts would be printed: one to be kept by election officials and one to be kept by the voter.

I agree 100%.

[souvlaki]

Holy crap... this is my home town:

GOP voter registration fraud case leads to arrest


GOP voter registration fraud case leads to arrest
Mark Jacoby, who was arrested in Ontario and owns a firm hired by the California Republican Party, violated state registration laws, authorities say.
By Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
2:38 PM PDT, October 19, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario late last night on suspicion of voter registration fraud.

State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California.

Jacoby's arrest by state investigators and the Ontario Police Department comes after dozens of voters said they were duped into registering as Republicans by his firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM. The voters said YPM tricked them by saying they were signing a petition to toughen penalties against child molesters. The firm was paid $7 to $12 for every Californian it registered as a member of the GOP.

Several agencies had launched investigations into Jacoby's activities, including the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which issued the warrant for his arrest earlier this month on felony charges of voter registration fraud and perjury.

Efforts to reach Jacoby were unsuccessful.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story

[Superman]

Has this been posted?

She has a point.:o

Opinion
Cynthia Tucker
ACORN HUBBUB IS LATEST EXAMPLE OF REPUBLICAN FEARMONGERING

If Mickey Mouse shows up at the polls in a couple of weeks, John McCain might have cause for the alarm he showed over alleged voter fraud during Wednesday's debate. If Minnie and Goofy also turn up with state-sponsored photo ID, then the Justice Department and the FBI will need to turn their attention away from terrorism, bank robberies and billion-dollar financial scams to investigate fake voters.

But it's quite unlikely that Mickey or Minnie or Goofy will be among the voters lined up on Nov. 4. So McCain's hysterical outburst over a group of activists -- ACORN, he said, "may be destroying the fabric of democracy" -- needs to be understood for what it is: a distraction. The Republican nominee is once again using fear as a tactic to try to win votes.

In the waning days of the presidential campaign, Republicans have made ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, their bete noire. Known for its activism on behalf of the poor, ACORN has long been an object of Republican disdain.

During this election season, ACORN has conducted a registration campaign, hiring workers to sign up new voters. Some workers have decided to fake it, filling in names such as "Mickey Mouse" instead of those of eligible voters. (According to ACORN's leaders, they discovered the fake names and notified authorities. They've also fired workers caught engaged in illegal activities.)

Still, the fake registrations have driven Republicans around the bend. They've been exaggerating voter fraud for decades, and the prospect of losing the Oval Office and congressional seats has them scurrying for excuses. If Democrats win big in this cycle, look for more GOP nuttiness about ACORN and voter fraud.

Fake voters are a myth, a convenient cover for those who really don't believe in the universal franchise. (ACORN has been accused of fraudulent registrations; for actual voter fraud to occur, persons with those fake names would have to show up to cast ballots.) There is no evidence of people coming to the polls using false names and fraudulent IDs.

Ever since the civil rights movement inspired large numbers of black and brown Americans to exercise their right to vote, Republicans have been engaged in efforts to keep them away from the ballot box. Way back in the 1960s, Arizona Republican William Rehnquist -- then a GOP activist, later the chief justice of the United States -- was accused of intimidating Latinos to try to keep them away from the polls. Many Republicans fought the "motor voter" laws, passed during the '90s, that allowed state driver's license bureaus to also register voters. Ease of access encourages less-affluent Americans to vote, and Republicans fear that too many Democratic-leaning voters are in that demographic group.

The GOP might have chosen to appeal to the interests of black and brown voters to lure them into its coalition. Instead, Republican strategists such as the late Lee Atwater perfected the so-called Southern strategy, using racially charged innuendo to appeal to white voters resentful of the civil rights movement. That has kept black voters alienated from the Republican Party. George W. Bush tried to appeal to Latinos with an enlightened push for broad immigration reform, but the narrow-minded Republican base revolted against the measure. That left Latino voters disaffected. With America growing browner, the base of the Republican Party will continue to dwindle.

As the GOP panics over its shrinking base, the smooth cover it has used to justify voter suppression has begun to crumble, revealing its ugly tactics for all to see. Just last week, Georgia Republican Eric Johnson, a state legislator, threatened to end early voting, calling it a "mistake."

Georgia Republicans used to champion early voting because it was convenient for well-educated voters, especially in the GOP-leaning suburbs. But this year, black Georgians have accounted for nearly 40 percent of the early votes, a sign of the excitement over Barack Obama's historic candidacy. Now, Johnson sees early voting as "a 30-day period of time when, if your goal is to undermine democracy, you've got 30 days to do it instead of one."

Don't be fooled. Neither McCain nor Johnson is concerned about democracy. They're worried about Democrats.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20081018/cm_ucas/acornhubbubislatestexampleofrepublicanfearmongerin g;_ylt=Av3Y0cDKPPVbaRSxivSoLAL9wxIF




Now if Palin votes, Would that be the same thing as Goofy voting? :o :hehe:

[The Overlord]

Being opposed to someone doesn't automatically mean you're in the opposing party. For me, there's not a lot to like about Obama, and only some things to like about McCain. Neither is the ideal candidate, but I'm not ready to vote for a guy who's hellbent on turning our country socialist.

So did vote Bush who dramatically increased the size and power of the government in the past 8 years? Bush supported the bailout and he is a republican, is he a socialist?

[jaguarr]

Has this been posted?

She has a point.:o

Opinion
Cynthia Tucker
ACORN HUBBUB IS LATEST EXAMPLE OF REPUBLICAN FEARMONGERING

If Mickey Mouse shows up at the polls in a couple of weeks, John McCain might have cause for the alarm he showed over alleged voter fraud during Wednesday's debate. If Minnie and Goofy also turn up with state-sponsored photo ID, then the Justice Department and the FBI will need to turn their attention away from terrorism, bank robberies and billion-dollar financial scams to investigate fake voters.

But it's quite unlikely that Mickey or Minnie or Goofy will be among the voters lined up on Nov. 4. So McCain's hysterical outburst over a group of activists -- ACORN, he said, "may be destroying the fabric of democracy" -- needs to be understood for what it is: a distraction. The Republican nominee is once again using fear as a tactic to try to win votes.

In the waning days of the presidential campaign, Republicans have made ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, their bete noire. Known for its activism on behalf of the poor, ACORN has long been an object of Republican disdain.

During this election season, ACORN has conducted a registration campaign, hiring workers to sign up new voters. Some workers have decided to fake it, filling in names such as "Mickey Mouse" instead of those of eligible voters. (According to ACORN's leaders, they discovered the fake names and notified authorities. They've also fired workers caught engaged in illegal activities.)

Still, the fake registrations have driven Republicans around the bend. They've been exaggerating voter fraud for decades, and the prospect of losing the Oval Office and congressional seats has them scurrying for excuses. If Democrats win big in this cycle, look for more GOP nuttiness about ACORN and voter fraud.

Fake voters are a myth, a convenient cover for those who really don't believe in the universal franchise. (ACORN has been accused of fraudulent registrations; for actual voter fraud to occur, persons with those fake names would have to show up to cast ballots.) There is no evidence of people coming to the polls using false names and fraudulent IDs.

Ever since the civil rights movement inspired large numbers of black and brown Americans to exercise their right to vote, Republicans have been engaged in efforts to keep them away from the ballot box. Way back in the 1960s, Arizona Republican William Rehnquist -- then a GOP activist, later the chief justice of the United States -- was accused of intimidating Latinos to try to keep them away from the polls. Many Republicans fought the "motor voter" laws, passed during the '90s, that allowed state driver's license bureaus to also register voters. Ease of access encourages less-affluent Americans to vote, and Republicans fear that too many Democratic-leaning voters are in that demographic group.

The GOP might have chosen to appeal to the interests of black and brown voters to lure them into its coalition. Instead, Republican strategists such as the late Lee Atwater perfected the so-called Southern strategy, using racially charged innuendo to appeal to white voters resentful of the civil rights movement. That has kept black voters alienated from the Republican Party. George W. Bush tried to appeal to Latinos with an enlightened push for broad immigration reform, but the narrow-minded Republican base revolted against the measure. That left Latino voters disaffected. With America growing browner, the base of the Republican Party will continue to dwindle.

As the GOP panics over its shrinking base, the smooth cover it has used to justify voter suppression has begun to crumble, revealing its ugly tactics for all to see. Just last week, Georgia Republican Eric Johnson, a state legislator, threatened to end early voting, calling it a "mistake."

Georgia Republicans used to champion early voting because it was convenient for well-educated voters, especially in the GOP-leaning suburbs. But this year, black Georgians have accounted for nearly 40 percent of the early votes, a sign of the excitement over Barack Obama's historic candidacy. Now, Johnson sees early voting as "a 30-day period of time when, if your goal is to undermine democracy, you've got 30 days to do it instead of one."

Don't be fooled. Neither McCain nor Johnson is concerned about democracy. They're worried about Democrats.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20081018/cm_ucas/acornhubbubislatestexampleofrepublicanfearmongerin g;_ylt=Av3Y0cDKPPVbaRSxivSoLAL9wxIF




Now if Palin votes, Would that be the same thing as Goofy voting? :o :hehe:

Great article. :up:

jag

[The Overlord]

Hey lazur, if Obama is a socialist, does that mean Canada is a socialist nation? If so, why is Canda's banking system better then the US' (Canada's banks aren't failing). So is Canada an evil socalist nation and should the US launch Operation Canadian Freedom soon?

[Marx]

MCCAIN EMPLOYING GOP OPERATIVE ACCUSED OF VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_136254.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/mccain-employing-gop-oper_n_136254.html)





(Go ahead...someone try to defend it.)

[Superman4ever]

Mi Republicans admit to ILLEGAL foreclosure scheme.

MI Republicans Admit to Illegal Foreclosure Scheme, “Surrender” to Democrats

Democrats and Republicans have settled the suit seeking to prevent Michigan Republicans from using foreclosure lists to challenge voters. The MDP statement on the settlement says:

An agreement announced today by Obama for America, the Republican National Committee, the Democratic National Committee, the Michigan Republican Party, the Michigan Democratic Party, the Macomb County Republican Party, the Macomb County Democratic Party, and plaintiffs Duane Maletski, Sharon Lopez, and Frances M. Zick protects the voting rights of foreclosure victims. The settlement acknowledges the existence of an illegal scheme by the Republicans to use mortgage foreclosure lists to deny foreclosure victims their right to vote. This settlement has the force of law behind it and ensures that Republicans cannot disenfranchise families facing foreclosure. [my emphasis]

In their reply to the joint motions to dismiss from the Republicans, the Democrats reminded that 6th Circuit precedent grants discovery before a suit like this can be dismissed on the jurisdictional grounds the Republicans had cited in their motions.

Under controlling Sixth Circuit precedent, when jurisdictional challenges raise questions of fact that are intertwined with merits questions, the proper course is denial of the motion to dismiss, conduct of discovery in the ordinary course, and consideration of the issues at the appropriate time on summary judgment. And because none of the Defendants has answered an interrogatory or produced a document in response to the Court-ordered discovery on jurisdictional issues, controlling precedent bars the Court from granting their motions. The rule is simple: When a defendant introduces evidence of its own related to the merits, it cannot block the plaintiff from conducting full discovery and still prevail.

I'm guessing--though this is an outtamyarse guess--that the Republicans weighed their options, thought discovery was sufficiently likely (and sufficiently damaging) that they chose, instead, to settle. And in return, the Democrats get to affirm that, indeed, Republicans were planning on using foreclosure lists to challenge voters.

Here's Michigan Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer on the settlement:

Today's settlement protects the voting rights of all Michigan citizens and guarantees that Republicans cannot use foreclosure lists to deny or challenge anyone's right to vote. It is no surprise the Republicans back pedaled when their illegal scheme was revealed, and their surrender today ensures that Republicans cannot take advantage of the economic crisis to deny anyone's voting rights. The agreement is a win for Michigan families ready to vote for change, and we will continue to aggressively protect everyone's right to vote. [my emphasis]

I like that word, used in conjunction with Republican schemes: "surrender." I'm hoping we'll get to hear more of it in the near future.


http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/mi-republicans-admit-to-illegal-foreclosure-scheme-surrender-to-democrats/

[kedrell]

Democrats, Chicago politics, and voter fraud. Seems familiar.:cwink:

[Superman4ever]

^^ Then I'd advise you to read some of the other articles posted in this thread about the GOP, Voter fraud, arrests, and admittance to voter fraud and illegal tactics. Which seems a little more familiar than what happened in Chicago 60 years ago.

[kedrell]

Actually there are allegations of voter fraud in Chicago every election. It's what the Daley political machine is known for. I'm sure Republicans have their own stuff as well. But Chicago seems to be a special case in this department.

[Superman4ever]

Actually there are allegations of voter fraud in Chicago every election. It's what the Daley political machine is known for. I'm sure Republicans have their own stuff as well. But Chicago seems to be a special case in this department.

They're called the Bushes and the right-wing, just on a , y'know, national scale!

[Gilpesh]

So, has word gotten to here about McCain's connection to ACTUAL voter fraud?

[souvlaki]

So, has word gotten to here about McCain's connection to ACTUAL voter fraud?

Oh yeah. Both Marx and myself posted about it a few pages back. One of the people in connection to the registration fraud was arrested about five minutes away from me. How was it actual voter fraud though? My understanding was that the person that was arrested locally was registering people as Republicans by telling them they were signing a petition for stricter laws against child molesters. I was under the impression that was still only voter registration fraud. Or are we talking about something completely different?

[Gilpesh]

I thought that same guy had setup a fake California address to vote twice... guess I heard wrong then.

[souvlaki]

I thought that same guy had setup a fake California address to vote twice... guess I heard wrong then.

Actually, no. You are completely right. I forgot about that part. Yep, that's voter fraud.

[Gilpesh]

ACORN just seems to be getting ripped off by "name for pay" workers who sign up Mickey Mouse because they want more money for less work. And isn't it a crime to get rid of those 'registrations'?

And this other guy actually is committing acts of voter registration fraud and has on one occasion committed voter fraud.


So, McCain had funded this guy? Or what?

[Gilpesh]

I hit the button once... ONCE I TELL YOU!



:csad:

[souvlaki]

ACORN just seems to be getting ripped off by "name for pay" workers who sign up Mickey Mouse because they want more money for less work. And isn't it a crime to get rid of those 'registrations'?

And this other guy actually is committing acts of voter registration fraud and has on one occasion committed voter fraud.


So, McCain had funded this guy? Or what?

The way I understand it the McCain campaign payed the owner of this organization to register new voters. So yeah, technically he did the same exact thing that Obama did, the only difference is McCain did it during the general election whereas Obama did it during the primary.

[jaguarr]

The way I understand it the McCain campaign payed the owner of this organization to register new voters. So yeah, technically he did the same exact thing that Obama did, the only difference is McCain did it during the general election whereas Obama did it during the primary.

Ooooh...busted! John McCain is threatening to compromise the very fabric of our democracy with these actions! :grin:

jag

[souvlaki]

Not to mention that the CA GOP party did the same thing locally in 2006. For all the flack about ACORN I find it hilarious that people seem unwilling to acknowledge that not only do Republicans make the same mistakes with registration fraud as Democrats, but they have just as long, if not a longer history of doing it.

[jaguarr]

Not to mention that the CA GOP party did the same thing locally in 2006. For all the flack about ACORN I find it hilarious that people seem unwilling to acknowledge that not only do Republicans make the same mistakes with registration fraud as Democrats, but they have just as long, if not a longer history of doing it.

Frankly, I'm more alarmed by the voter suppression tactics the GOP engages in than I am the voter registration fraud stuff.

jag

[souvlaki]

Frankly, I'm more alarmed by the voter suppression tactics the GOP engages in than I am the voter registration fraud stuff.

jag

Me too. If you look at the statistics actual voter fraud very rarely happens, and there has been absolutely no correlation between voter registration fraud and actual voter fraud. On the other hand, voter supression when done successfully actually can impact an election.

[jaguarr]

Me too. If you look at the statistics actual voter fraud very rarely happens, and there has been absolutely no correlation between voter registration fraud and actual voter fraud. On the other hand, voter supression when done successfully actually can impact an election.

Exactamundo, Potsy. :up:

jag

[The Guard]

I love how talk shows keep coming back to this as the reason people shouldn't vote for Obama.

[Matt]

I'm...suprised (not really) to see this has not been discussed here or much in the main stream media.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529206,00.html

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers no longer plans to investigate the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now — known as ACORN. The Michigan Democrat bucked party leaders when he called for hearings on voter fraud accusations against ACORN. The Washington Times reports Conyers now says, "the powers that be decided against it."

He did not say who those powers are. Spokesman for House Minority Leader John Boehner, Michael Steel, says Conyers, "has a responsibility to explain who is blocking this investigation, and why. Is it Speaker Pelosi? Others in the Democratic leadership? Who in Congress is covering up ACORN's corruption?"

A Conyers spokesman later said Conyers had been referring to himself as "the powers that be."


Who exactly are these "powers that be." Conyers is now claiming it is himself, but if you look at the context in which he said it, he clearly is not. Why is the investigation of voter fraud being blocked and by whom?

[StorminNorman]

I have not been this depressed about the state of the country in a long time.

I can't wait until this country winds up in an economic **** hole, my biggest fear is that rebuilding this country will lead to further deviations from the work of our founding fathers by misguided liberals.

[Matt]

The sad part is that practically no one is reporting this news.

[StorminNorman]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was someone from Obama's administration that is blocking justice.

It wouldn't be the first time they have done so.

[StorminNorman]

I also love the irony in the fact the House Judiciary Chariman's wife just pleaded guilty to conspiracy :lmao: :lmao:

[Malice]

Obama fired the poor IG of AmeriCorps because they were making up stories he was senile...I have seen numerous interviews with him, and he was not senile

[Wiseman]

This is how I feel about the people who voted for Obama, "in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand"

[StorminNorman]

:lmao: Brilliant

[Matt]

Indeed. And now look at us, transparency FTW :(

[Handsome Rob]

Obama fired the poor IG of AmeriCorps because they were making up stories he was senile...I have seen numerous interviews with him, and he was not senile

You would think that the Democrats would be as outraged about this as they were about Bush firing those AG lawyers, considering that others have been fired, as well.

You would think . . . :whatever:

[Hobodeluxe]

ACORN,Obama's birth certificate,the census/internment camps,Obama gonna take your guns,socialism,Freddie Mac,Obama is the reason Mark Sanford cheated,Chris Dodd should be lynched,the govt is out of control and we need to take up arms to stop them,libs,libs,libs

You poor, poor victims of oppression.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb33/hobodeluxe/goddamnitz.jpg

[souvlaki]

ACORN, lol. :whatever:

And Matt, it's voter REGISTRATION fraud, not voter fraud. The two things are completely different.

[Hobodeluxe]

ACORN, lol. :whatever:

And Matt, it's voter REGISTRATION fraud, not voter fraud. The two things are completely different.

and is it really fraud when ACORN is the one reporting when people falsify their applications? they have to accept them by law. they don't have the authority to use discretion. they have to turn them in and let the voter registration people do that.

personally I think it's a distraction from their own voter registration outfits that have been found guilty of voter registration fraud.
and of course their timely political investigations that pop up just after a US Attorney has been suddenly replaced who wouldn't indict just before an election.

[souvlaki]

I said it in the last ACORN thread, but any time you hire poor, often times homeless people, and pay them off commission for registering people to vote you are going to have a problem. Are ACORNs practices dumb? Yes. Did they actually contribute knowingly to actual, real voter fraud (not registration fraud) on November 4th? No. They accepted the fake applications, and turned them into the registrar of voters because legally they cannot destroy applications for any reason.

[StorminNorman]

ACORN,Obama's birth certificate,the census/internment camps,Obama gonna take your guns,socialism,Freddie Mac,Obama is the reason Mark Sanford cheated,Chris Dodd should be lynched,the govt is out of control and we need to take up arms to stop them,libs,libs,libs

You poor, poor victims of oppression.


LOL what a waste.

[StorminNorman]

I said it in the last ACORN thread, but any time you hire poor, often times homeless people, and pay them off commission for registering people to vote you are going to have a problem. Are ACORNs practices dumb? Yes. Did they actually contribute knowingly to actual, real voter fraud (not registration fraud) on November 4th? No. They accepted the fake applications, and turned them into the registrar of voters because legally they cannot destroy applications for any reason.

You act as if this is the only reason for people to be upset at ACORN. The Mickey Mouse vote application have little to do with it.

[souvlaki]

You act as if this is the only reason for people to be upset at ACORN. The Mickey Mouse vote application have little to do with it.

I just think it's hilarious that ACORN is seemingly responsible for anything and everything that happens in politics. I'm frankly sick of hearing about them. Republicans need new material.

[souvlaki]

Also, do you mind elaborating, StorminNormin? Because I've heard so many dumb theories associated with ACORN I cant distinguish the ridiculous claims from the legitimate ones.

[Hobodeluxe]

Also, do you mind elaborating, StorminNormin? Because I've heard so many dumb theories associated with ACORN I cant distinguish the ridiculous claims from the legitimate ones.

just ask him to list convictions for voter registration fraud by ACORN and what they were for. allegations don't count. I think you'll find there's not a widespread systemic problem with ACORN but just a couple of individuals who tried to make some money being lazy.

[StorminNorman]

I just think it's hilarious that ACORN is seemingly responsible for anything and everything that happens in politics. I'm frankly sick of hearing about them. Republicans need new material.

Over exaggeration rarely helps a point. No one has tried to paint ACORN as responsible for anything and everything that happens. The points against ACORN are as valid as they are troubling.

ACORN was founded by Wade Rathkey, his brother embezzled a million dollars from the company - a company that receives federal funds - and the company never attempted to press charges. The Rathkey brothers have used this organization, as well as hundreds of others, to pad their wallets.

You also seem to dismiss the Voter Registration Fraud aspect of their crimes far too easily. The company is paid by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to register practices. By using practices that guarantee fraud, they are absolutely negligent.

The organization is absolutely corrupt.

[Marx]

This is how I feel about the people who voted for Obama, "in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand"

:dry:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden are a heck of alot better than John McCain and Sarah Palin.

...but that's an argument for a different thread.

[Marx]

This can be discussed in the official ACORN thread.

Merging.

[StorminNorman]

just ask him to list convictions for voter registration fraud by ACORN and what they were for. allegations don't count. I think you'll find there's not a widespread systemic problem with ACORN but just a couple of individuals who tried to make some money being lazy.

The Regional direction in Nevada was charged with Voter Registration Fraud.

The fined ACORN for its workers being found guilty of Voter Registration Fraud.

Seven men charged in Pennsylvanian have claimed that they were pressured by the organization to fulfill quotas

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/politics/19471568/detail.html

Even Souvlaki admitted how flawed and stupid their organizational practices were. They system for registering voters intentionally festers Voter Registration Fraud.

[Wiseman]

This can be discussed in the official ACORN thread.

Merging.

What's the point in having a political forum if everything just gets merged? When a new topic is being discussed it shouldn't have to be in a thread already filled with other topics simply because it consists of a republican or a democrat or acorn or Obama.........Why not just take all the threads in the Iron Man forum and combine them so it reads "Iron Man discussion" if that's how it's supposed to work.

[Wiseman]

:dry:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden are a heck of alot better than John McCain and Sarah Palin.

...but that's an argument for a different thread.

Yes a corrupt polician from Chicago whose rise was just on false promises a catchy slogan and a whole bunch of people not questioning anything, and a half-wit who might not even be legally sane if actually tested.

I feel so warm and fuzzy inside thinking of our chosen leaders

[Marx]

What's the point in having a political forum if everything just gets merged? When a new topic is being discussed it shouldn't have to be in a thread already filled with other topics simply because it consists of a republican or a democrat or acorn or Obama.........Why not just take all the threads in the Iron Man forum and combine them so it reads "Iron Man discussion" if that's how it's supposed to work.

I do not frequent the Iron Man forum, I frequent this forum.

I see no point in having a discussion span several threads. If it can be combined, and makes sense to be combined, it will be. I like organization, and I'm pretty sure everyone else does as well. It makes it easier to navigate this ever growing Political forum.

Now...back to the topic.

[souvlaki]

The Regional direction in Nevada was charged with Voter Registration Fraud.

The fined ACORN for its workers being found guilty of Voter Registration Fraud.

Seven men charged in Pennsylvanian have claimed that they were pressured by the organization to fulfill quotas

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/politics/19471568/detail.html

Even Souvlaki admitted how flawed and stupid their organizational practices were. They system for registering voters intentionally festers Voter Registration Fraud.

You do realize voter registration fraud is a misdemeanor right? Do their practices suck? Yes. Is it really worthy of round the clock news coverage, or even any news coverage like Matt is saying? No, not really.

[souvlaki]

Okay, maybe on a really really really really slow news week. But, Michael Jackson just died and we have a Governor that disappeared for four days with state funds to see his mistress. There is no media conspiracy here. We are talking about congress ignoring a couple petty crimes. For the record I found Matt's initial thread ridiculous not because the crimes were being ignored but because Matt was shocked no one in the media is talking about it.