Son of Dream Team League (Discussion)

[TheCorpulent1]

New thread, since the old one hit 20,000 and had to be closed.

wieg: If you want this first post to rehash the rules or something, I can edit it later. I just didn't want the Discussion thread to be closed without a new one readily available, since it tends to get the most traffic within the DTL.

[Khellendros]

Quick, save all my posts from the old thread!

[TheCorpulent1]

They're still there, it's just closed.

[wiegeabo]

Just reopen the old thread, it'll be easier. ;)

And you can make room in it be deleting all of X's posts. :p



Thanks Corp, I'll get something for the first post together tonight.

[Ahura Mazda]

Corp wehy don't you become a moderator in this specific forum as well instead of Master bruce. It would seem logical to me.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm a global mod, so I'm technically a moderator of every forum. I can still do everything under admin level here. If there's something moddish that needs to be done here, just let me know and I can do it.

[Aristotle]

And you can make room in it be deleting all of X's posts.What the hell happened to that guy, man?

[TheCorpulent1]

He comes and goes. I think he hates all of us deep down, but he convinces himself he's over it and comes back, then realizes he's not and leaves again.

[Franklin Richards]

I seem to remember all his ideas of the direction the league should go was one of the main reasons I left.

Adding Transformers and every damn comic known to existence to the list.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

Yeah, I wouldn't want every comic ever, just the ones I like. Good God, I think if I had to put up with Transformers in this thing, I'd ****in' leave with a superquickness. **** the Transformers, so hard. They're ****ing dumb and childish and there's nothing cool about them. They're ****ing cars and trucks that turn into robots--how ****ing six-year-old can you be!

[TheCorpulent1]

I like the Transformers. I tend to favor the ones who turn into animals, since Beast Wars was awesome from the end of its first season on, but I like all of them in general. They transform! What's not to love? :oldrazz:

I wouldn't want them in the DTL, though.

[wiegeabo]

Transformers have been in the DTL.

[TheCorpulent1]

I remember. It was not our finest hour. :(

[Aristotle]

God. That...is...horrible.

[TheCorpulent1]

Did any TFs actually make it to a match? I remember them being in the DTL and then gone before long.

[Franklin Richards]

Pick Up : ROM


:D

I KEED!


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

X had ROM for a long time. I don't think there was ever anything barring him.

[Franklin Richards]

Pick Up : Darth Vader from the Marvel Comic.


I KEED



:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

No, I think ROM is definitely MU, they just lost the license.

[Franklin Richards]

Pick Up : Snake-Eyes


:D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Did any TFs actually make it to a match? I remember them being in the DTL and then gone before long.

Leaguer used Optimus Prime in at least a couple of matches.

[Franklin Richards]

Pick Up : That Care Bear With The Rainbow Powers


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

OK, but that makes you gay.

[Franklin Richards]

I am happy, dammit!

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

So we gonna get some votes or what?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

Have to wait for wieg to open voting.

[Franklin Richards]

Lazy arses! Ari and I have our battles up! :cmad:


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

Yeah, all four writeups are up in our thread. I kinda think wieg is waiting for Khel, which is dumb, because Khel knew when writeups were due as well as anybody else did.

[wiegeabo]

I'm not waiting for Khell. I'm just at work and haven't gotten around to them.

[Franklin Richards]

Work, shmerk! Dance clown!!!


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Work, shmerk! Dance clown!!!


:thing: :doom: :thing:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/wiegeabo/animated/710dbef2cba361bbc9590278fb070e01.gif

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now open

[XFanTim]

I seem to recall Guyverjay (season 1 champ, for the newbies) advocating that we should include manga in the DTL. Not like Marvel Mangaverse, but stuff like Dragonball.

Which would be god awful, in my opinion.

[XFanTim]

Regarding votes by outsiders, at the very least they ought to be encouraged to give specific reasons why they voted the way they did.

That's actually encouraged for everyone. It sucks to work long and hard on a writeup only to have someone vote against it seemingly on a whim. But doubly so if you have no idea who they are.

[wiegeabo]

I seem to recall Guyverjay (season 1 champ, for the newbies) advocating that we should include manga in the DTL. Not like Marvel Mangaverse, but stuff like Dragonball.

Which would be god awful, in my opinion.

In mine as well.

[wiegeabo]

Regarding votes by outsiders, at the very least they ought to be encouraged to give specific reasons why they voted the way they did.

That's actually encouraged for everyone. It sucks to work long and hard on a writeup only to have someone vote against it seemingly on a whim. But doubly so if you have no idea who they are.


We could make brief reasons for voting a requirement. Votes without them would be ignored.

[wiegeabo]

I think bringing in outside voters would be a healthy thing for the League. Instead of just relying on former or current players (players who may have to drop out, costing us votes), we bring in new potential players who can learn about the League first hand. We could wind up having a whole new batch of rookies next season.

[XFanTim]

Yeah, I think you have a good point on how it could help future recruitment. I like the idea of requiring a brief reason for the vote, and we'd need to make clear it needs to be a reason based on the strategies used, or the plausibility of the characters being able to execute those strategies, or who had more convincing arguments in the debate, etc. Not just a "You had my favorite character on your team" sort of reason.

[Aristotle]

I just want to make it known that I strongly, strenuously disagree with this decision. I think it invites all kinds of uneducated, uninformed, ignorant, ******** opinions. These guys have no idea how the League works, they don't know some of the intricacies of our rules (which we've been constantly rehashing and reshaping over the course of seasons.) I don't think I was fully educated enough to vote in this thing until the postseason, and I was actually playing!

That doesn't even get into the whole friendship/favoritism thing. These are people who have no vested interest in making the League function smoothly. Most of us care enough about maintaining the integrity and fun of this game that we don't vote based on "that guy's an *******" or "that guy's my friend," but outside voters have no such compunctions.

However, if this is really the direction you guys want to move in, can there at least be a tiered voting system? Current players and administrators count as 3 votes, former players and administrators count as 2 votes, and complete outsiders count as 1. Or maybe current and former players and administrators count as 2, and outsiders count as 1. But some kind of tiered system.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I think you have a good point on how it could help future recruitment. I like the idea of requiring a brief reason for the vote, and we'd need to make clear it needs to be a reason based on the strategies used, or the plausibility of the characters being able to execute those strategies, or who had more convincing arguments in the debate, etc. Not just a "You had my favorite character on your team" sort of reason.
Try it out, but I have the feeling we're going to get either exactly that sort of "reasoning" or an utter lack of interest from a lot of outsiders and wind up back where we started.

[Khellendros]

Long prep posted. Actual fight stuff coming soon-ish.

[Aristotle]

That's what I love about you. Timeliness.

[wiegeabo]

Just to be clear on the outsider voting, I wouldn't open it up to everyone on the Hype.

At most, I would post in some of the RPG threads. The people I know there are very fair minded and comic knowledgeable.

Also, we've never actually excluded outside voters. They are eligible to vote, I just don't remember having any last season. This would be a call to interested parties who'd like to participate. I can think of at least three that I almost got to join as owners this season, but they couldn't because they didn't know our rules, or quite understand how the League works. And they didn't think they could afford the time to learn. This would give them a chance to learn on the go. Which is what our non-playing voters did.

And I know at least a couple of players joined because they started reading and voting first.

[Khellendros]

Battle posted going to bed need sleep bye

[wiegeabo]

Mine's finished too. Time for bed.

[Franklin Richards]

Sleep when you're dead!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Nightwing.]

I thought the votes with opinions was optional like last season?

[Khellendros]

That's what I love about you. Timeliness.
The **** are you babbling about? You never bothered to post even prep time for our fight.

[wiegeabo]

I thought the votes with opinions was optional like last season?

They still are. The idea is if that I bring in outside voters, opinions would be required.

[Khellendros]

I say bring in the outside votes.

[Khellendros]

Just so everyone knows, I'll be filling in for Ahura this week.

[Aristotle]

The **** are you babbling about? You never bothered to post even prep time for our fight.I also love how thick-skinned you are! But no, I just didn't have anything to say about prep-time this week. I mean, what was I gonna say about prep time that couldn't be said in the first paragraph of battle time?

[Khellendros]

I also love how thick-skinned you are! But no, I just didn't have anything to say about prep-time this week. I mean, what was I gonna say about prep time that couldn't be said in the first paragraph of battle time?HOLY ****! I just now realized I forgot to post my writeup! OK, Khel, I see what you were saying. Wow, I thought I posted it. Hold on, I'll have it up in a sec.

Fail fail fail fail fail FAIL.

[Aristotle]

Yeah, I won't deny that. It was pretty stupid.

[TheCorpulent1]

Why were the brief descriptions instituted, again? It seems like having to look for characters who have a broad informaton base would just add another healthy dimension to our strategies.

[Aristotle]

Brief descriptions are so that opposing teams know who they're facing, but don't get the full breadth of knowledge about them.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I know, but we didn't used to do that a few seasons ago. Teams had to rely solely on knowledge their characters could provide. I'm trying to recall why it was changed.

[Khellendros]

Ugh. We've already got so damn many other requirements you have to draft for (you need a speedster, need a mage, need a tech person) to give yourself the best chance at winning, I don't want to ALSO draft people with encyclopedic knowledge of their universes.

[Aristotle]

Plus, there are some guys that no one will know about. You know, guys from What Ifs and such.

[Khellendros]

Exactly.

[Franklin Richards]

We need to highlight one matchup for the "Monday Night Game". :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

Yeah, we'll schedule what we think are gonna be the best games for Monday Nights, and then they'll turn out to actually be horrible blowouts or games between the worst teams.

[wiegeabo]

Or the commentators will be horribly unwatchable and completely ruin the game no matter how good. :p

[Franklin Richards]

Heh. You might be right.

"Oh man! This week should be great! Doom vs Orion for all the cookies!"

We have an announcement. Doom and Orion will not be starting. In their place we have Kristoff and Granny.

"Nertz!"


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Voting end tonight, and tomorrow is our break while we get lineups finalized. So start thinking of that next match and get your votes end. I'll post results tomorrow, which should give you at least until the morning to get votes in. I'll be getting mine up soon.

[Franklin Richards]

I assume I don't have to vote for myself.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[wiegeabo]

You don't. Just all the other matches or your votes won't count. :D

[Franklin Richards]

Gah!!

:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Well, I would have finished reading, but I forgot about the Hype's nightly dump. And I couldn't read the other pages while it was down. Now I'm too tired. Guess everyone gets a little more time. :p

[Khellendros]

Is it a conflict of interest for Ahura and I to vote on each other's matches? I'm assuming it is...

[TheCorpulent1]

I would think so.

[Khellendros]

Hey, what's the likelihood of making a squad of 3 Ubers as opposed to 2 Ubers a Medium and 2 Regs? Also, what ARE the acceptable squad makeup variations?

[TheCorpulent1]

2 ubers, 1 med, and 2 regs is the standard variant. Any of those ranks can be downgraded, but none of them can be upgraded. So you could have 1 uber, 2 meds, 2 regs or 3 meds, 2 regs or even all regs if you were suicidal. But you can only ever have a maximum of 3 ubers as the rules stand now. I think we toyed with the idea of a 3 uber squad that was literally just 3 ubers--i.e. you trade in all of your lower ranks for one more uber--but either wieg or Johnny decided against it because it would complicate everything too much.

[Franklin Richards]

No more ubers! If anything remove one and have another middleweight.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

Gah!!

:doom: :doom: :doom:No, goldenagehero got banned, I think.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, man, that guy. Good times. :D

[wiegeabo]

So, everyone get all their votes in? I'm about to tally them up to make sure.

[wiegeabo]

Ok, so unless I missed a post, Tim needs to edit in a vote in thread 1, and Ari needs to vote in thread 2.

[Aristotle]

Let us know if we didn't vote.

So, no outside voters?

[Khellendros]

Mine are in. Assuming I was correct in assuming that voting in Ahura's match is a conflict.

[Khellendros]

Okay, let us discuss the tactic of speeding up R'amey's brain in my first match. Is this a "tuber move", as Ari claims? I justified it in my own head by saying it's just giving her the necessary reaction times to keep up with fast guys. She doesn't get anywhere near Flash-level movement of body or speed force tricks. Thoughts?

[Khellendros]

So, hey, I know Stark's unable to use his magic, but what about his Armor? On its own, minus spell-related abilities, it is likely high Reg level, I would say. Also, would an Uber mage's magic being turned off work? Does he know the spells, but just can't get them to work, or does he lose all magical ability whatsoever?

[wiegeabo]

I'd say the magic just doesn't work. It's not like he loses his knowledge, just his powers.

[wiegeabo]

Let us know if we didn't vote.

So, no outside voters?


I haven't looked for any. I'd like to bring a few trusted Hypesters in.

[Franklin Richards]

Get twy in here.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Love to. She's been interested in joining. But she's been so busy lately she can't even post in the RPG's. :(

[Franklin Richards]

Tell her to warm up with voting.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Hmm...I wonder where LV is.

[Khellendros]

Chained up in my basement.

[wiegeabo]

Well, dammit, let her out to vote! :cmad:

[Aristotle]

I'd say the magic just doesn't work. It's not like he loses his knowledge, just his powers.Wait, so what just got decided? Stark can't use his magic, except when he can? I thought that when a character was tuber, they were just tuber. I didn't realize we could cut out certain aspects of them to get them under the tuber bar.

Can I just have Galactus, but arbitrarily downgraded enough to not be tuber?

[wiegeabo]

What are you talking about? I was just answering Khell's question about uber mages having powers during prep-time. They wouldn't. The ubers don't lose their knowledge or experience during prep, just all their powers.

Although, that makes me wonder about ubers whose power is their knowledge and experience...if that makes sense.

[Aristotle]

Wait, Stark stopping time ISN'T tuber? I guess I just figured everyone would have the sense to tuber that ****.

[wiegeabo]

We seem to be talking about two different things. I'm talking about mages/ubers not having any powers during prep-time. You're talking about mages not having a specific power during battles.

[Aristotle]

Yeah, I guess in my haste of reading Khel's post, I thought he was asking if he was allowed to use an unpowered Stark Supreme. I had assumed that Stark Supreme was tubered, but I realized that decision was never made.

[XFanTim]

My missing vote is in now. Sorry about the delay, I've been really busy with family stuff this weekend.

[wiegeabo]

A likely excuse!

[Ahura Mazda]

Wait, Stark stopping time ISN'T tuber? I guess I just figured everyone would have the sense to tuber that ****.

Not the way he used it. All it gave him in that battle was extra prep time to load his spells. It is not like I then used it to banish everyone.

And sorry I did not vote, I was not online much this weekend and was surprised to see voting was closed this morning.

[Aristotle]

All it gave him in that battle was extra prep time to load his spells. It is not like I then used it to banish everyone.That's exactly my point. He used it to circumvent a clearly defined rule: no uber powers during prep time.

[Ahura Mazda]

That's exactly my point. He used it to circumvent a clearly defined rule: no uber powers during prep time.

That is why he did it when battle time started. In any case, i lost especially due to my complete miscomprehension who Captain Atom was thinki8ng he was an upgrade of the Atom when he someone completely different. :o

[XFanTim]

Plus, there are some guys that no one will know about. You know, guys from What Ifs and such.To reiterate, this was exactly the reason for the brief descriptions. There are too many characters from their own little alternate universe, or who appeared once 20 years ago or whatever, and having their opponents have no idea what their powers are gives them too big an advantage.

The point of the brief description is to be sufficiently brief that knowing who they are is still to your characters benefit (since you'd know things like weaknesses, and how they typically fight, etc.), but that not knowing them doesn't mean you won't be able to plan any kind of defense against their powers.

Paragon, who I had in season 3, was a good example. At the time, his only appearance was a single pre-crisis issue of JLA. His power was to copy your power at an even higher level as soon as you get close to him. The only reason he was allowed at all was because he had the weakness that you could beat him by keeping your distance or sending someone at him with only weapons but no powers. But no one would know he was a power copier unless you had a JLA character from pre-Crisis continuity, so the whole thing was pretty ridiculous.

I'm sure there are even more ridiculous one shot characters out there, like guys who can kill you if you make eye contact. And these would be perfectly legal characters, but not if their opponents have no idea that's what they're facing.

The other reason was to help keep the writeups short by sparing us to have to write lengthy explanations of how our characters figure out who their opponents are ("Oh, this alternate universe character's name sounds a little like Superman, I bet they have the same powerset") or from having to describe them preparing for every possible power their unknown opponents might have.

[XFanTim]

But if he could use it to stop time and actually kill all his opponents while time is frozen, shouldn't we rank him based on that? That is, we rank on what the character is capable of doing, even if the owner promises not to do it.

(If we did decide global time-stopping abilities automatically make a character tuber, you could potentially save Stark by arguing that he never actually did this in the comics and perhaps hadn't learned how yet -- although that goes against your previous assumption that Stark could do everything Strange has done. But it would definitely mean Dr. Strange was tuber.)

Alternatively, I suppose we could argue that global time-stopping is somehow a "blitz" (since as far as I recall we never did decide what a blitz really is), in which case maybe the character could be allowed but just not allowed to use global time-stopping. But in general we don't ban specific abilities of a character in order to squeeze them under the tuber bar, unless it's something like that where it goes against an existing rule.

[Franklin Richards]

If we ban Time Stop (Which is available in some degree to a few Regulars) then we have to ban Speedsters. I propose that we just include Time Stop in the "No Blitzing" rule.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[wiegeabo]

Hmm...actually, one could argue it was a blitz move. One could also argue that Stark was technically attacking lower characters, and not just ubers.

[TheCorpulent1]

If we ban Time Stop (Which is available in some degree to a few Regulars) then we have to ban Speedsters. I propose that we just include Time Stop in the "No Blitzing" rule.


:thing: :doom: :thing:
You mentioned this before and it didn't make sense then, either. Speedsters don't stop time, they move fast. They're two entirely different things with similar results for people who can't move as fast. The difference is that one is counterable by other speedsters while magic time stoppage isn't counterable by anyone.

[Franklin Richards]

But magic time stoppage is just as counterable. It just means that you have to have an Uber Mage on your team. The rules don't stop the unalterable need for a speedster on your team. Why should they stop the unalterable need for a Mage?

Also time stop can be balked or stopped by Geniuses. Reed or Brainiac-5 could stop the area from experiencing time stops. They would have to have access to tech and prep time. Both are available for the people who bring tech with them. There are alot more time hoppers in the DC universe if I remember correctly.

Perhaps diversity will get rid of this attitude of "having" to use a speedster. Maybe geniuses will make a comeback.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

That assumes some prescient knowledge that the opposing mage 1) has the capability to stop time, which is unlikely given how rarely mages stopping time is used, let alone observed by anyone other than the mage himself, and 2) is going to stop time. Other mages might be able to counter those kinds of effects if they're ready and waiting for them, but unless they prepared some specific spell beforehand, they'll be frozen along with everyone else. Unlike speedsters' ability to move fast, uber mages' ability to stop time is almost 100% likely not to be given as part of their description. Speedsters may annoy you, but the fact of the matter is they're a lot easier to combat than the sorts of uber mages who, over the course of their respective histories, have probably exhibited just about every power in the book.

[Khellendros]

So, wait, now we're banning a a character because of a tactic the other team MIGHT NOT think of and plan for it? Glorious.

I say time stopping easily justifies being a banned tactic due to the fact that it is basically a blitz And is an attack on lower characters.

[wiegeabo]

So, wait, now we're banning a a character because of a tactic the other team MIGHT NOT think of and plan for it? Glorious.

I say time stopping easily justifies being a banned tactic due to the fact that it is basically a blitz And is an attack on lower characters.

And I'm agreeing. If we consider Flash knocking out all the opposing characters in the first couple of seconds a blitz, then we should also consider Strange/Stark freezing all the opposing characters (leaving them open to attack) as a blitz as well.

[Aristotle]

Hmm...actually, one could argue it was a blitz move. One could also argue that Stark was technically attacking lower characters, and not just ubers.I am ceaselessly amazed at the lengths to which this League will go to in order to keep Stark Supreme under the tuber bar. How many times do we have to have the debate? No one is as controversial as Stark Supreme and the other Dr. Stranges, and there's a reason for it. They have the power to do anything they want with impunity, and the only reason they're not tuber is because they've been written under the tuber bar. It's absurd to think that they're not tuber. They decide matches before the matches begin.

He stopped time. He stopped it. Completely. You don't just selectively say, "OK, that one ability can't be used anymore," you throw him out! How many times do we have to say, "OK, that one ability can't be used anymore"? How many rule-changes have to happen explicitly for Dr. Stranges?

[Aristotle]

But magic time stoppage is just as counterable. It just means that you have to have an Uber Mage on your team.Show me the comic book when Dr. Fate or Zatanna magically prevented time from stopping.

The rules don't stop the unalterable need for a speedster on your team. Why should they stop the unalterable need for a Mage?Because no matter how hard you try to turn my argument against me, you're still wrong; banning Dr. Stranges would not remove the need for a mage. I'm surprised you're so against this: what I'm arguing for would only make the DTL more fair.

Reed or Brainiac-5 could stop the area from experiencing time stops.Oh really? They're so smart they can stop an uber mage from casting a spell they cannot possibly know about? Maybe we'd like to take a look at re-ranking them too!

There are alot more time hoppers in the DC universe if I remember correctly.Time travel's illegal.

Perhaps diversity will get rid of this attitude of "having" to use a speedster. Maybe geniuses will make a comeback.See, this whole thing is just your desperate hope that we'll ban superspeed and redefine "genius" as "teh awesome superpowre that killz everything" without re-ranking your genius reg.

[Aristotle]

So, wait, now we're banning a a character because of a tactic the other team MIGHT NOT think of and plan for it? Glorious.No, we should be banning it because of this:I say time stopping easily justifies being a banned tactic due to the fact that it is basically a blitz And is an attack on lower characters.And this:He stopped time. He stopped it. Completely. You don't just selectively say, "OK, that one ability can't be used anymore," you throw him out! How many times do we have to say, "OK, that one ability can't be used anymore"? How many rule-changes have to happen explicitly for Dr. Stranges?

[Khellendros]

Yes, you've done a lot of crying about Dr. Strange, I didn't need to be reminded. Fact is, though, we do ban specific tactics like blitzing and attacking lower level characters, and we don't just ban a character when we realize one of the uses of their power falls under their heading we say "Well, you shouldn't have done that, don't do it again". Look, the writeup got NO votes, so it was no threat to anybody, and now time stopping's about to be banned so it can't be used again. But no, that's not good enough for you, you're just gonna keep crying about how unfair a character is because that's what you do.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd like to clarify that I'm not necessarily advocating total uber mage bans or no Strange variants like Ari's pressing for. I would be okay with the no-time-stoppage rule being considered part of the no-blitz rule. I'd be happy either way but frankly I've been where Ari is, trying to get beloved characters whom I see as clearly tuber out, and I know the resistance he's likely to face, so I'm willing to accept a more lenient stance.

[Khellendros]

This is Ari's whole deal, though. He comes up against a character that's hard to beat, and his go-to tactic is to throw a fit and scream "tuber". He's been doing it about Strange, and NOW LOOK, he's crying about Walter being tuber. And yet he's been guilty of drafting characters who are blatantly tuber, as evidenced by the characters he lost between last season and now.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, I don't agree on Walter, at least, but I empathize with him. I think just about everyone who's been in the DTL for a while has come up against rankings they don't agree with and tried to press for tuberings they didn't get and such. At least he's sticking around instead of just ditching the DTL altogether, as others have done when they didn't get their way with rankings.

[Franklin Richards]

Show me the comic book when Dr. Fate or Zatanna magically prevented time from stopping. I can show you a comic where Thor uses his hammer to stop time because Jane Foster was near death. Does that mean Thor has access to Time Stop and should be banned?

I don't know of a specific instance where alot of our strategies are always represented, but it would seem plausable that someone who gets a magic signal from God that tells them who their opponents are and what their powers are would possibly be able to rub some batguano together with some blood and be able to ask Chronos to watch over them and keep time stop from killing them outright. Another tactic with Magic is the ole Godly Intervention and I'm sure Dr. Fate or Zatanna could come up with a good spell. Does this mean they can obliterate their opponents? No, but it would level the playing field.


Because no matter how hard you try to turn my argument against me, you're still wrong; banning Dr. Stranges would not remove the need for a mage. I'm surprised you're so against this: what I'm arguing for would only make the DTL more fair.

All of this is your opinion. Why are you trying to paint it as truth and I'm some sort of rabble rouser who promotes unfairness?

Oh really? They're so smart they can stop an uber mage from casting a spell they cannot possibly know about? Maybe we'd like to take a look at re-ranking them too!

They know about it. They get a brain bullet at the beginning of the preptime. They also have access to tech like this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/DTL/FFTimeshift.jpg

And with this sort of tech I'm sure science can balk magic in some way.

Time travel's illegal.

There has to be some sort of happy medium. We allow speedsters which is still in my mind so close to time manipulation. Isn't Zoom a time speedster?

See, this whole thing is just your desperate hope that we'll ban superspeed and redefine "genius" as "teh awesome superpowre that killz everything" without re-ranking your genius reg.


Can we argue like adults or is this going to be the general tone of all your arguments?


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[TheCorpulent1]

I can show you a comic where Thor uses his hammer to stop time because Jane Foster was near death. Does that mean Thor has access to Time Stop and should be banned?
Thor can't stop time anymore because the power was removed from his hammer by Kang. But if he still had it, yeah, he would be subject to whatever wieg decides on in this matter as well.
There has to be some sort of happy medium. We allow speedsters which is still in my mind so close to time manipulation. Isn't Zoom a time speedster?
Yep, he is. His powers manifest in ways that are indistinguishable from super-speed, but he may require a second look with regard to this time stop potential as well.

[XFanTim]

I think a guy with Flash-level speed on top of Strange-level magic would clearly be tuber. So even if time-stopping really is no better than super-speed, we still shouldn't allow Strange to do it. (Personally, I think time stopping is a bit better, for basically the reasons Corp gave above.)

If we can agree that we don't want to allow Strange to stop time, then we have two choices:
(1) Ban Strange (and anyone "equivalent to Strange", whatever that means)
(2) Keep Strange, and make up some rule preventing him from stopping time. (Or, reinterpret the existing rules to prevent it. It amounts to the same thing, I guess.)

[TheCorpulent1]

It depends on what we consider the extent of the problem to be. If it were just one isolated incident of stopping time that pointed to Strange being tuber, I'd say without a doubt, just ban time stoppage under the same principle as the no blitz rule. But given all the problems we've had in the past with Strange-like uber mages, it seems like we should give serious thought to ousting the lot of them. I mean, really, even back when we had raised the tuber bar to allow people who would be too uber by astronomical leaps right now, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, et al. were always just a razor's edge from being too uber themselves. The impression I've gotten is that they haven't been banned simply because they're well known and people like them, which frankly isn't much of a reason.

[Aristotle]

This is Ari's whole deal, though. He comes up against a character that's hard to beat, and his go-to tactic is to throw a fit and scream "tuber". He's been doing it about Strange, and NOW LOOK, he's crying about Walter being tuber. And yet he's been guilty of drafting characters who are blatantly tuber, as evidenced by the characters he lost between last season and now.No, it's not my "whole deal." I haven't even faced Stark Supreme once in the time I've been in the DTL. I've never had to beat him. I haven't faced Dr. Strange either. The character has just always screamed tuber to me. And now, as you point out, the tuber bar has been significantly dropped, to the point where Infinity-Man, basically just a big brick with energy beams, got tubered (and yet somehow Silver Surfer is allowed). But no matter how low the tuber bar drops, somehow, all the Stranges and Supremes will manage to always be lower. I'm pretty sure that means they're being underwritten deliberately.

As for Walter, if a super speedster has the power to grant infinite speed without losing an iota of his own speed, then he can effectively duplicate himself. To me, that's something that should be discussed as a possibly illegal usage of power.

[Aristotle]

I can show you a comic where Thor uses his hammer to stop time because Jane Foster was near death. Does that mean Thor has access to Time Stop and should be banned?Yes.

They know about it. They get a brain bullet at the beginning of the preptime.You know, I didn't catch the part where Ahura included "time stopping" in his brief description.

Tech like thisOnly if they carry it with them on their person.

[Aristotle]

It depends on what we consider the extent of the problem to be. If it were just one isolated incident of stopping time that pointed to Strange being tuber, I'd say without a doubt, just ban time stoppage under the same principle as the no blitz rule. But given all the problems we've had in the past with Strange-like uber mages, it seems like we should give serious thought to ousting the lot of them. I mean, really, even back when we had raised the tuber bar to allow people who would be too uber by astronomical leaps right now, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, et al. were always just a razor's edge from being too uber themselves. The impression I've gotten is that they haven't been banned simply because they're well known and people like them, which frankly isn't much of a reason.I agree with this to a certain degree. I just don't believe that Zatanna (sorry I keep using that example, but she's the one that comes to mind because I've used her before) is on the same level as a Strange or even a Fate.

Also, add Silver Surfer to the list of characters that never get tubered because they're well-loved. Seriously, Infinity-Man got tubered before Silver Surfer? Not even the New God-killing universal-power-possessed Infinity-Man, just regular ol' Infinity-Man? When Infinity-Man is above the tuber bar, Silver Surfer better be above the tuber bar as well.

[TheCorpulent1]

As for Walter, if a super speedster has the power to grant infinite speed without losing an iota of his own speed, then he can effectively duplicate himself. To me, that's something that should be discussed as a possibly illegal usage of power.
I don't see it that way. Khell only had Walter speed up R'amey's mind and perceptions to keep up with a super-speed telepath on your team. That's just another example of an owner using a character intelligently to counter a disadvantage to me. I didn't see anything illegal about his use of the character, given that it's well within the bounds of the character's abilities and it didn't make the match entirely one-sided or anything. Super-speed is thrown in along with tons of other powers on ubers. It's not like R'amey could actually do anything with her speed like Walter and other Speed Force speedsters can; she could just counter Kryad's super-speed telepathy. A Green Lantern or a genius reg effectively does the same thing when they fashion a psi-blocking construct for their teammates.

[wiegeabo]

I was actually a little concerned with that strategy. The idea of a Lantern with the ability to create constructs at the Flash's speed of thought (assuming their willpower was also amped up). I'm sure the ring could keep up.

[XFanTim]

As for Walter, if a super speedster has the power to grant infinite speed without losing an iota of his own speed, then he can effectively duplicate himself. To me, that's something that should be discussed as a possibly illegal usage of power.The check against lending speed is that if you give someone too much speed you upgrade their ranking -- or in the case of ubers, you push them over the tuber bar.

The question we should be asking is just "How much speed can you give a good uber before making them too uber?"

[XFanTim]

I mean, really, even back when we had raised the tuber bar to allow people who would be too uber by astronomical leaps right now, Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, et al. were always just a razor's edge from being too uber themselves. The impression I've gotten is that they haven't been banned simply because they're well known and people like them, which frankly isn't much of a reason.Honestly, that's my impression as well. Even the second tier uber mages (Zatanna, etc.) are still extremely powerful. The first tiers can do damn near anything.

[Franklin Richards]

So it's decided. Mediums and Regulars only.

:D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[TheCorpulent1]

I was actually a little concerned with that strategy. The idea of a Lantern with the ability to create constructs at the Flash's speed of thought (assuming their willpower was also amped up). I'm sure the ring could keep up.
I hadn't considered that R'amey is a GL and that there's a standing rule that no GLs with super-speed are allowed. Walter jacking the speed of her perceptions up does seem a little iffy now. For any other uber, it'd be fine. With a GL... I may have to reconsider.

[Khellendros]

WTF?? She doesn't have the ring, or the disk thing that covert ops team used as replacement rings. I asked about this last season (without mentioning her name) and was basically told that since this new incarnation didn't use a ring, and wasn't even seen wearing one, I wouldn't be able to use it for her.

[wiegeabo]

Wait, what?

[Khellendros]

No, it's not my "whole deal." It is SWIFTLY becoming that.

[Khellendros]

Wait, what?She's not a GL. I didn't include GL powers in her description, did I?

Well, I mean, she IS a Green Lantern still, technically, but she doesn't have the ring or anything, just her telepathy and Gravity manipulation.

[Aristotle]

It is SWIFTLY becoming that.I am discussing the tuber bar more frequently now, because it got jacked WAY down low, and a lot of characters seem to have snuck under. Like Stark Supreme, inexplicably. Who by the way, I was arguing against almost from the moment I joined the DTL. That character has never made sense as allowable in the DTL, and still doesn't.

[TheCorpulent1]

WTF?? She doesn't have the ring, or the disk thing that covert ops team used as replacement rings. I asked about this last season (without mentioning her name) and was basically told that since this new incarnation didn't use a ring, and wasn't even seen wearing one, I wouldn't be able to use it for her.
Blah, I'm all kinds of confused tonight. I thought she still had the funky ingestible Corpse powers, but you just didn't have her use them in your write-up. If she's just got her natural powers and can't use her GL powers at all, Walter's speed bump is no problem. Telepathy, gravity manipulation, and super-speed perceptions are well below what plenty of other ubers can do.

[Khellendros]

Dude, I didn't list it in her description. I don't know for sure, but that seems like a violation of the rules.

And, anyways, we've already got a rule in place that says upgrading any character beyond their natural power level is against the rules, unless you've left room for that. So, you can only upgrade a Medium to an Uber if you have a free Uber space. Same with upgrading Regs to Meds. And Upgrading an Uber to a Tuber is just naturally off-limits totally.

[XFanTim]

And, anyways, we've already got a rule in place that says upgrading any character beyond their natural power level is against the rules, unless you've left room for that. So, you can only upgrade a Medium to an Uber if you have a free Uber space. Same with upgrading Regs to Meds. And Upgrading an Uber to a Tuber is just naturally off-limits totally.Exactly. You can add speed to your characters, but if you add too much you'll upgrade them and make your lineup illegal. I guess it's a judgement call on the part of the voters whether any particular instance of speed adding goes too far.

[Aristotle]

I'm assuming this week's battleground has no real tech to speak of? You know, aside from like electrical outlets and the like?

[Franklin Richards]

Giant Baby Monitor. Maybe a mobile. Teddy Ruxpin.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Nightwing.]

Im going for th childish approach to this arguement and saying - MAGES SHOULD BE BANNED

[TheCorpulent1]

Giant Baby Monitor. Maybe a mobile. Teddy Ruxpin.


:doom: :doom: :doom:
I'm totally crushing your team under a giant Teddy Ruxpin.

[Nightwing.]

in the update thread you've got Khell as owning Supes KC...Ive got him

[TheCorpulent1]

What's the current standing on power-granting or power-enhancing accessories characters might have? Brainiac 5's allowed to use his force field belt and flight ring and geniuses are allowed to build all manner of nonsense to amp up their entire teams, so I would assume other characters are allowed to use similar power-enhancing items they might have, correct?

[Khellendros]

in the update thread you've got Khell as owning Supes KC...Ive got himYeah... I'm gonna have to ****in' draft someone new... Damnit to hell.

What's the current standing on power-granting or power-enhancing accessories characters might have? Brainiac 5's allowed to use his force field belt and flight ring and geniuses are allowed to build all manner of nonsense to amp up their entire teams, so I would assume other characters are allowed to use similar power-enhancing items they might have, correct?Well, I've used Talisman to give my Regs flight via air spirits, so I figure so long as you can prove the character could do it, and they don't exceed the power limits it would be fine.

[Franklin Richards]

What's the current standing on power-granting or power-enhancing accessories characters might have? Brainiac 5's allowed to use his force field belt and flight ring and geniuses are allowed to build all manner of nonsense to amp up their entire teams, so I would assume other characters are allowed to use similar power-enhancing items they might have, correct?

I'd think so. I'm sure Middle Weight and Regular Mages can hand out talismans.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

How big is this bedroom? Is it like Toy Story big? Or is it like Greater Metropolitan Area of Chicago big?

[wiegeabo]

I was thinking that our characters would be action figure size inside it. But that might still be too small a room.

[TheCorpulent1]

Why don't we just make it the Toy Story room? Everyone has a general idea of that room's dimensions and the size of the toys in that room.

[wiegeabo]

I could go with that. Give's us all the same location to work with. Got a good pic for reference?

[TheCorpulent1]

Um... no.

[wiegeabo]

Then what good are you?! :cmad: :p

[TheCorpulent1]

Google keeps spitting out stupid close-ups of the damn characters. :(

[XFanTim]

The first half of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2gPZRsz0Q) pans around the bedroom a bit.

(Credit to my wife for suggesting I just look up the Toy Story intro on youtube.)

[TheCorpulent1]

Ingenious. Positively ingenious. :up:

[Khellendros]

Clever lady. What's she doing with you?

[XFanTim]

Clever lady. What's she doing with you?I'd ask her, but I think I'm better off not planting that sort of question in her head. ;)

Today is actually our two-year wedding anniversary. :grin:

[Aristotle]

Seriously? The Toy Story room? That's ****ing small. That's, like, barely enough room to fight in.

Also, I'm assuming the toys aren't on the battlefield, since we don't have live bystanders in our battles.

[wiegeabo]

What is we expand it to the whole house?

Oh, if only LV were still playing. The swirly she could give Deadpool with a toilet that sized.

[XFanTim]

What is we expand it to the whole house.A whole giant house would be a very cool setting. The kitchen in particular ought to offer a lot of interesting options, I think.

[Aristotle]

Yeah, but it still seems like a very small battlefield. We play on cities, planets, moons. I guess a really big house could possibly be analogous to Titans Tower in size...oh well.

I know I'm gonna have a lot of fun talking about the house like it's a war zone. "OK, troops, tonight we make our move on the pillow fortress in the living room. If we're lucky, we can program the VCR with minimal casualties."

[Aristotle]

So is the rule, "ubers can't use their powers in prep," or is it "powers can't be used in an uber fashion during prep"?

[wiegeabo]

Ubers can't use their powers.

[Aristotle]

Mk. So no more of the old "Green Lantern rings up a psi-blocking helmet." Damn. Another casualty of a rule that was invented explicitly for Dr. Strange and Stark Supreme.

[wiegeabo]

Everyone check if your lineups/rosters are up to date so I can start the matches tomorrow.

[Khellendros]

Need Energy Supes in my roster. Just posted both updated lineups.

[wiegeabo]

Who's energy Supes. Chris Kent? And who'd you drop?

[Khellendros]

Who's energy Supes. Chris Kent? And who'd you drop?
I never legally had Kingdom Come Superman, so I picked up energy Supes. And this Is Superman when he was basically pure energy and blue.

[wiegeabo]

Oh, Superman Blue. Got it.

[Nightwing.]

I think the toy story house is a brilliant idea..If we're all action figure sized characters roughly the size of buzz lightyear is in the film and we have the whole house to run in...

The kitchen however i think should be out of bounds as we never saw it in the film I think we should get Sid's house and have the demonic room filled with explosives,along with his staircase,rafters and garden to fight in...

or you could try pizza planet as a location...whilst action figure sized...

I love Toy Story...its class.

[TheCorpulent1]

Mk. So no more of the old "Green Lantern rings up a psi-blocking helmet." Damn. Another casualty of a rule that was invented explicitly for Dr. Strange and Stark Supreme.
Why couldn't a GL just create a psi-blocking helmet at the start of the battle? It only takes a thought.

[Franklin Richards]

The helmet is just a booster for him and someone else. The generic force field works that way too. And yes. Corp is right. Just takes a thought.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

[Khellendros]

Okay, I have a question. In the description for Replicant, he links to the four default powersets the guy has. Doe the team facing Replicant get whatever's in those links?

[wiegeabo]

I take it to mean that they'd know he has Cold's cold gun, Heatwave's heat gun, things like that. A general understanding of those characters powers.

[wiegeabo]

Matches posted.

I adjusted the schedule. Thanksgiving still looks good, but we'll probably need to adjust the Christmas matches a bit.

[Khellendros]

Try again. You've got the same two matches in both threads.

[Khellendros]

Never mind, clicked the same thread twice.

[Nightwing.]

Wieg you've got our battle location listed in the threads as bottle city again

what is the actual location?

[XFanTim]

Wieg you've got our battle location listed in the threads as bottle city again

what is the actual location?It should say the Toy Story house (with the characters as action-figure size), right?

[wiegeabo]

Corrected.

[Franklin Richards]

Good news! They let me out after one night! I still have to pay 500 dollars though.


I'm back!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

So who did you kill again?

[Aristotle]

Wait a minute, did you go to jail or some ****?

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm gonna guess... public indecency for flashing an old lady.

[Nightwing.]

Im gonna guess...caught with your p*nis in a cops exhaust

[Aristotle]

Nah, gotta be something dumb like peeing off your porch.

[Nightwing.]

Just for Khell's note..I'll be starting my write up tonight...i've got it planned out and i'll get it up asap...just been busy working these last few days...dont worry its coming

[wiegeabo]

Battles are due tonight. Got my prep time done, but might be late getting the battle up.

[TheCorpulent1]

Damn it, I forgot about my write-up in my quest to buy everything in Fable 2. :( I'll try to have it done by tonight.

[Franklin Richards]

Little late because of the jail thing but I'll have it up tonight.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

Little late because of the jail thing but I'll have it up tonight.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Details man! What'd you do? Who'd you do? :boba:

[Aristotle]

Little late because of the jail thing but I'll have it up tonight.


:doom: :doom: :doom:I've got my money on you got nailed for peeing off your porch.

[Nightwing.]

Damn it, I forgot about my write-up in my quest to buy everything in Fable 2. :( I'll try to have it done by tonight.

Ratings dude? Is the game worth the purchase?

[Franklin Richards]

Let's just say it had to do with Spider-Man's wife before the deal with the devil.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[TheCorpulent1]

Ratings dude? Is the game worth the purchase?
I think so. It's shorter than I expected. If you just do the main quest, you'd be done within a day. Thankfully, there's a ton of other stuff to do besides the main quest, so it's pretty long, plus you basically have to play it at least twice to do the good and bad choices. I'm going to start my evil she-devil soon, since I just finished the main quest with my good guy.

[Khellendros]

OKAY. Immortals and Inquisition writeups both posted.

[Khellendros]

Okay, I have a problem. My furnace seems to be not working at all, and it is getting cold as all HELL over here as the sun has now gone down. I'm gonna go futz with it, but I may need to go stay somewhere else until I can figure something out, meaning I'm screwed for further debate. I'll check in later, at work tomorrow, if nothing else.

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

[XFanTim]

I was going to vote, but some of you haven't finished your writeups. :cmad:

So I guess I'll keep waiting . . . .

[Khellendros]

I finished mine, so go vote for me!

[wiegeabo]

I was going to vote, but some of you haven't finished your writeups. :cmad:

So I guess I'll keep waiting . . . .

Stop looking at me you quitter! :cmad:

:(

[XFanTim]

Yeah you gotta love how I went straight from constantly begging people for patience every week last season to griping about how people aren't finishing their writeups fast enough. :D

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I'm just slacking this week because I'm so addicted to the video games I bought. Am I allowed to just forfeit a match?

[Ahura Mazda]

That would be very unfair. Why did you not forfeit last week.......hmmm

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't have Fable 2 last week. :)

[Ahura Mazda]

You should have told me; I would have given it to you as a gift ;)

[TheCorpulent1]

I think we've gotta face each other again sometime. I'll let you know which games I've got my eye on then. :)

[wiegeabo]

With the recent tuber discussions we've been having, I will be making a decision soon. Since lineups for week 3 are due tomorrow, whatever I decide won't apply to week four to give everyone time to make any necessary adjustments.

[wiegeabo]

Where's all the votes? Everyone can't be as lazy as me. :p

[Franklin Richards]

I voted but got assaulted about it. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[Aristotle]

Yeah, well, if your motivations weren't so transparently ridiculous, that wouldn't have happened.

[Franklin Richards]

I love how you "see all". Is your middle name Uatu?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Aristotle]

No, it's Kaufman. But you don't have to be omniscient to read between the lines of your posts.

[XFanTim]

I'm kind of on the fence with some of my votes, and given that hardly anyone has voted I figured I could wait to see if further debate pushes me over the edge.

But I'll definitely make a final decision and vote tomorrow. Right now I'm going to bed.

Try not to kill each other over night, alright? ;)

[Nightwing.]

can i ask...is ahura allowed to vote for his own team?I know him and Khell are co owners but does that mean the none participant can vote for his own team?

if so does that mean I can get a coowner who doesnt participate in a week and have them vote for me?

seems like a bit of a cheat to me

[Aristotle]

He voted for Spanish Inquisition, not the Immortals. It does still seem kinda cheap, but don't expect any sympathy about things like "rules" from the DTL anymore.

[Nightwing.]

It doesnt seem fair. I dont think I was given the option to vote for the ruling of co-owners being allowed to vote their own teams. Why should we potentially lose out on a vote because we didn't decide to co-own?

[Aristotle]

Well the thing is, he didn't vote for his team. He voted for a team that his co-owner owns. They don't share both teams, just the one. But I agree, it's kind of a guaranteed vote for the Spanish Inquisition every week.

But all of these questions of ethics and the spirit of the rules hardly seem to matter to the DTL anymore. I mean, you yourself voted in favor of a flagrant rule violation, despite the fact that you made note of it yourself. It doesn't appear that ethics are very important to the players in the League anymore. And if that's the case then so be it, but it should be acknowledged up front, so we can stop pretending to care about the rules.

[Nightwing.]

What rule violation did I vote for?

[Aristotle]

Using superspeed with Cable but not listing it. That's a fairly key component, because if Cable doesn't have superspeed, that leaves him wide open to either Spartan or Superman-16 and tips the balance of the uber fight decisively. Since you voted specifically on the uber fights, you are presumably voting in favor of that violation (unless you just don't believe that superspeed is that important, in which case, I shouldn't have assumed and I apologize.)

[Khellendros]

Feel free to ignore Ahura's vote for me. I didn't vote for him last week because I thought it might be a conflict of interest. Although Wieg didn't say yes or no when i asked about it, as I recall.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd be inclined to say just bar joint owners from voting either way on a match their team is involved in. I think I said that last week, too.

[Khellendros]

You did, yes. I don't remember Wieg weighing in, though.

[Ahura Mazda]

First of all, I voted for a team I do not participate in and not on my own jointly owned team and second if you think I am going to give a guaranteed vote for a game which has at the end of the day little importance to me then you are taking this way too far and I find it insulting. Do whatever you want but I voted for the Spanish Inquisition because I do not think Superman Blue would just absorb the radiation while Replicant doles it out without him at least taking a beating. It just seems implausible to me.

[wiegeabo]

I thought that was already the rule. Co-owners couldn't vote for their own team.

Or, to generalize the rule a bit, if you own a team, you can't vote for it. Co-owned or not.

[Aristotle]

At issue is whether co-owners can vote for a team owned by their co-owner.

[wiegeabo]

So Ahura voting for Khell's team? I don't see a problem with it. Ahura would be doing the exact same thing if Khell wasn't a co-owner. And it's not like Khell can vote for Ahura to 'repay and favors'.

[Khellendros]

Fine by me, but if you need to change it after some *****ing, I'll understand.

[wiegeabo]

I really need to read through the threads tonight and vote.

BTW, lineups due today. If more voting time is needed, I'll keep it open until the new matches go up tomorrow.

[Aristotle]

So Ahura voting for Khell's team? I don't see a problem with it. Ahura would be doing the exact same thing if Khell wasn't a co-owner. And it's not like Khell can vote for Ahura to 'repay and favors'.The conflict of interest is painfully obvious. But I doubt anyone cares.

[wiegeabo]

What the hell are you talking about? You realize our entire voting system is riddled with potential conflict of interests, right? We vote for and against our own competition. The only way to avoid the possibility of that kind of conflict would be to only have outsiders vote. But we don't do that.

For 6 seasons we've relied on our players being honest and voting for who they really think deserves to win. Perfect, no. People have been called out before for apparent voting bias (the JH/AS fiasco was before your time) but what other way is there?

[Khellendros]

I'm still fine with supplementing the voting pool with other posters. Who all actually objected to it? I mean, we've got LV and Tim voting, and they don't play any more, and that's still fine.

[Franklin Richards]

My lineup needs an update, Wieg. Don't worry. I think this will be my team till the end. I've got the bad guys AND the good guys squads.


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[wiegeabo]

I probably won't be able to update until this afternoon/evening.

[Aristotle]

I'm still fine with supplementing the voting pool with other posters. Who all actually objected to it? I mean, we've got LV and Tim voting, and they don't play any more, and that's still fine.I don't think I can really object to it anymore. We have too few players. I wasn't really thinking realistically when I objected to it earlier. I'm on board.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm okay with it as long as they're not 'tards who aren't going to actually read the write-ups and stuff.

[wiegeabo]

I'm okay with it as long as they're not 'tards who aren't going to actually read the write-ups and stuff.

Agreed. I'd try pulling in voters that we can trust.

[Khellendros]

Yaaaay

[Franklin Richards]

But I want 'tards.

:(


:doom: :doom: :doom:

[XFanTim]

What the hell are you talking about? You realize our entire voting system is riddled with potential conflict of interests, right? We vote for and against our own competition. The only way to avoid the possibility of that kind of conflict would be to only have outsiders vote. But we don't do that.You should just let me pick the winner of every match. :D

Seriously, I'm thinking more and more that pulling in outside voters is a good plan. Too few voters makes each vote have more weight, which I think leads to people taking it more personally when people don't vote for them. Whereas if it's just one vote out of 10 or so, it's not such a big deal.

[Aristotle]

I want you to know that the number and weight of voters has nothing to do with how personally I'm taking Frank's vendetta against me. It's the vendetta that pisses me off.

[Franklin Richards]

A vendetta you made up.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Khellendros]

but i want 'tards.

:(


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Wieg opposes voting rights for the mentally disabled!!

[Aristotle]

A vendetta you made up.So much for never communicating again. Look, if you don't have a problem with me, then fine, whatever, but it's kinda hard to overlook the fact that just a couple days ago you were *****ing about how I'm so nasty-mean to you because I make jokes, and that you actively decided to ignore rules violations so you could vote against me (even going so far as to say that SUPERSPEED shouldn't have to be included in descriptions), and that you voted against me before my opponent had even defended his writeup. Oh, and also that when I first suggested that you had an ulterior reason to vote against me, you just cavalierly said that I was "taking it personally." That looks like something to me. If that something isn't there, then fine, forget it. But it looked pretty crappy to me.

[XFanTim]

There's no rule that you have to vote against someone just because they left something out of their descriptions, it's just one thing that we factor in against them. We've never mandated automatic forfeiture for someone breaking a rule, even if it's a clear-cut rule violation like having an uber attack a reg. Instead we let the voters decide how big a deal it is on a case-by-case basis.

Whether it's deliberate or not surely factors into how serious I consider any rule-bending. I take Khell at his word that he wasn't deliberately trying to trick you into thinking he wouldn't argue Cable has superspeed reactions. Particularly since he'd already made that argument more than once last season.

Regarding Franklin having a grudge against you, I don't really see it. You have what I'd call a somewhat aggressive debating style. (I don't mean that as a criticism.) I think he thought you had a grudge against him because he wasn't around last season to see that you debate that way against everyone. But it seemed like that was all cleared up before he cast his vote in this weeks match.

[wiegeabo]

I'll work on getting my votes up tonight, and lineup. Then close matches and see if I can interest some new voters for next week.

[Aristotle]

Regarding Franklin having a grudge against you, I don't really see it. You have what I'd call a somewhat aggressive debating style. (I don't mean that as a criticism.) I think he thought you had a grudge against him because he wasn't around last season to see that you debate that way against everyone. But it seemed like that was all cleared up before he cast his vote in this weeks match.He claims I've had it in for him since he joined. And yeah, I thought it was cleared up too. But it's one thing to vote for a team that broke the rules because you don't think it's an issue; it's quite another to actively defend their rulebreaking as OK.

[Nightwing.]

I dont think its right that Ahura and Khell can both vote....

Its one or the other...one writes the other votes...its how its been in previous seasons and the coowners cant vote their own teams or team mates...

otherwise ill get me a co-owner and have them vote me every week...clearly its allowed.

[Khellendros]

Okay, God damnit, I want to talk about this Cable thing, because it makes utterly no sense to me for people to be so adamant about him not having super fast reaction speeds when he fought a guy who was pure light.

I don't understand how a guy who is basically a column of energy, shooting at your back, can be noticed when he's less than a mile away and still leave you time to throw up a shield, and that's not evidence for some insanely fast reaction time.

[Ahura Mazda]

I dont think its right that Ahura and Khell can both vote....

Its one or the other...one writes the other votes...its how its been in previous seasons and the coowners cant vote their own teams or team mates...

otherwise ill get me a co-owner and have them vote me every week...clearly its allowed.

I DID NOT VOTE ON THE IMMORTALS MATCH!!!!!!! I VOTED ON THE SPANISH INCQUISITION MATCH; A TEAM I HAVE NO INVOLVEMENT IN. I HAVE ALSO GIVEN MY REASONING BEHIND MY VOTE.

I am sorry if this brings back memories of AS posting but this is getting to be very annoying and I am on the verge of dropping the whole thing because I am finding this insulting.

[Khellendros]

Also, just so there's no doubt later, Cable has a sick healing factor. It's not just Deadpool's, this is what he could do when he first was coming into his Uber powers:
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soldierxv200604rougherpa5.jpg
That's the kind of damage he can recover from on TK use alone.