What villain do you want in the Avengers movie?

[marcvader]

So what villain would you like the Avengers take on?

[WeaponXProject]

Redskull and I'm not sure about the other one.

[Chewy]

Loki

[GL1]

There's something very resonant about the Avengers being pit against their own creations. I say give us Ultron. Everything else is either too small (Red Skull? Doesn't Captain America beat him solo?) or too big (Skrulls - lets not bring in the aliens right off the bat, okay?)

[Intruder1092]

Hulk

[Nathan]

Is it too early for the Masters of Evil? I just think it would be great to see some of the member's old adversaries. Seeing Abomination up against Thor or Iron Man would be kinda cool.

[WeaponXProject]

Hulk


I think they will fight Hulk in the first half of the movie and gain him to fight against who ever else is the other villain in the second half of the movie.

[GL1]

I think they will fight Hulk in the first half of the movie and gain him to fight against who ever else is the other villain in the second half of the movie.

Yes, yes, and YES. I would hate for Hulk not to be on the Avengers' side in the climax.

[FaT_tONle]

Baron Zemo or HYDRA led by Baron Von Strucker (maybe both)


http://francemarvel.free.fr/images/personnages/baron_zemo_II/baron_zemo_II_1.jpg http://losthemisphere.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/strucker.jpg

and either Loki or Leader (maybe both)

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/200px-Loki_asgard~0.jpg http://www.bamkapow.com/ul/776-the%20leader.bmp


Also an armored villain like Titanium Man or Crimson Dynamo (or both)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/Titaniuman.png/225px-Titaniuman.png http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1494/95538-85855-crimson-dynamo_large.jpg

[Chewy]

I think they will fight Hulk in the first half of the movie and gain him to fight against who ever else is the other villain in the second half of the movie.
And in that case it might as well be Loki, just like in the first Avengers comic.

[Metamorpho1977]

Kang played by Tim Robbins.

[xisaacx]

Ultron hands down, You need Red Skull in the captain america movie first.

[Vaportrail]

Does it have to be just one?
Pit multiple heroes against one villain, and it'll be F4 all over again.

(I liked F4, mind you, but 4-against-1 is kind of limiting as far as fights go.)

[Nathan]

A villain group would be really great. A group consisting of old Villains and new ones Like Abomination, Crimson Dynamo, Radioactive Man, Goliath and all under the command of Zemo or the Leader.

[YoungE808]

I think it would be much easier for The Hulk to be the villain because if you introduce too many new characters then the non comic book fan audience will end up getting confused.

The Main Avenger's should be Captain America, Iron Man, Pym, Janet, and the Hulk I guess.

The biggest money maker would be to have CA, IM, Spiderman, Wolverine, and then a couple others seeing as they already have movies out and people are already familiar with them.

[Spidey-Quad]

I voted for Ultron, but I like Thanos the best. I feel like Thanos would need much too much back story though to give the character justice. He's too big to just shove into a movie.

Now if Marvel did a "Villians:Thanos" movie first, that would be killer awesome!

[Spider-ManHero12]

Ultron. :up:

Save Red Skull for the Captain America film.

[Chris Wallace]

I'd like a big, elaborate plot by the Masters of Evil (though maybe they shouldn't call themselves that) with Loki as the mastermind.

[PyroChamber]

I'm interested in seeing how any of these villains will look on-screen.

[FaT_tONle]

I'd like a big, elaborate plot by the Masters of Evil (though maybe they shouldn't call themselves that) with Loki as the mastermind.

Exactly... although I don't think Loki is much of a leader as Baron Zemo/Von Strucker; he is more of a solo villain... plus Loki would be a rehash. I'd probably use Leader as the brains/supporting villain... an armored villain for the extra muscle. Something for a climax... maybe Leader's gamma mutated army versus Pym's robot army... setting up Ultron for the sequel.

[CaptainStacy]

There's something very resonant about the Avengers being pit against their own creations. I say give us Ultron. Everything else is either too small (Red Skull? Doesn't Captain America beat him solo?)

Red Skull took on The Avengers during the Red Zone arc.

[Chris Wallace]

And this guy< cleaned his clock!

[CaptainStacy]

And this guy< cleaned his clock!

That he did. :up:

[Spider-Fan]

My two choices are either Namor or the Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube (and AIM behind him).

[[A]]

*checks poll results* wow, how popular is Ultron!

[Astro13Zombie]

I think they will fight Hulk in the first half of the movie and gain him to fight against who ever else is the other villain in the second half of the movie.


Well...i think that banner would b part of the team....from the begining.........because at the end of the hulk movie..it looks like banner..learned of to control it:huh::bh:

[Chris Wallace]

I'd rather not get a live-action remake of this.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l114/spawn47/Marvel/ultimateavengersmovie.jpg

[Philly Phanboy]

I'd rather not get a live-action remake of this.


QFT :up:

[[A]]

I'd rather not get a live-action remake of this.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l114/spawn47/Marvel/ultimateavengersmovie.jpg

QFT :up:

I liked that movie :o

[shadowdog]

I picked Korvac, but I wouldn't mind Ultron, Red Skull, or the MoE, but I just love the whole Korvac story line and have always wanted to see it on the big screen

[CaptainStacy]

I liked that movie :o

Same here. Many great moments in it.

[ANTOINE X]

I liked that movie :o

Same for me. I would like to see Avenger against HULK.

[BizarroAids]

I'd want to see Ultron. Just because I think it would make the movie more dramatic and more exciting if he was in it. Mainly because Stark could build him, then of course Ultron has his own agenda. Stark makes him powerful, thinking he'll use him for military purposes. But once he loses control of Ultron, it takes all of the Avengers to stop him.

That's just my idea, if it's going for somewhat of a Ultimates/Realistic take on the team. :o

[FaT_tONle]

Pym designed Ultron...

[[A]]

Same here. Many great moments in it.

Same for me. I would like to see Avenger against HULK.

I'm not that alone.

[BizarroAids]

Pym designed Ultron...

I know, but since we've already established Tony as this great techonological inventor, it would just seem more logical that he create him. Considering what he did with Jarvis, the suits, the helping machines, etc... See what I'm saying??

[[A]]

I don't see it happening.. It would be cool, though

[YJ1]

Anyone but aliens.

NO ALIENS! Please.

[BizarroAids]

Anyone but aliens.

NO ALIENS! Please.

QFT!!

There wouldn't be a point in having aliens in an Avengers movie. Let's have supervillians, not ****ari.

They're not the MIB.:o

[The Geek Vault]

I'd want to see Ultron assembled in Avengers and then Avengers 2 he rises to evil. For the first movie I'd want to see Loki with Hulk in the beginning. Also What does QFT mean? Because I've always though it mean "Quit *****ing Tom"

[louiebling$]

Quoted For Truth

http://www.urbandictionary.com/ can be your friend for Forum Talk :cwink:

[Chris Wallace]

I liked that movie :o

I'm not saying I didn't like it. I just want to see the Avengers do something I haven't already seen.

[[A]]

yeah--that's how I learned about QFT and FTW

[[A]]

I'm not saying I didn't like it. I just want to see the Avengers do something I haven't already seen.

Then you should really start using more words.

[Matt312]

If Ultron is the villain, would that mean Vision would be in the movie too?

[Chris Wallace]

Not necessarily. Not at all, really. We saw an Iron Man movie without War Machine. We saw Venom but no Carnage. Batman without Robin. One doesn't necessarily require the other.

[The Question]

Exactly... although I don't think Loki is much of a leader as Baron Zemo/Von Strucker; he is more of a solo villain... plus Loki would be a rehash. I'd probably use Leader as the brains/supporting villain... an armored villain for the extra muscle. Something for a climax... maybe Leader's gamma mutated army versus Pym's robot army... setting up Ultron for the sequel.

Well, Loki shouldn't be the leader of the group. Zemo should lead the Masters, but Loki should be manipulating events from behidn the scenes, playing both sides into destroying each other.

[Chris Wallace]

Well, Loki shouldn't be the leader of the group. Zemo should lead the Masters, but Loki should be manipulating events from behidn the scenes, playing both sides into destroying each other.

That's actually what I had in mind.

[[A]]

We're gonna see a big Stan Lee Hulk.. remember, he drank some of Banner's blood

[Chris Wallace]

We're gonna see a big Stan Lee Hulk.. remember, he drank some of Banner's blood

:whatever:

[redlion2]

I'm not that alone.

Youre not alone at all, I liked it too.

[redlion2]

I'd want to see Ultron. Just because I think it would make the movie more dramatic and more exciting if he was in it. Mainly because Stark could build him, then of course Ultron has his own agenda. Stark makes him powerful, thinking he'll use him for military purposes. But once he loses control of Ultron, it takes all of the Avengers to stop him.

That's just my idea, if it's going for somewhat of a Ultimates/Realistic take on the team. :o

I like that idea, only I would change it to Pym working for Stark IND. on a special A.I. project to use robots for future military/hostile environment applications. Of course, the A.I. malfunctions and we get Ultron.

Pym could use a radical new controversial approach by supplanting human consciousness in the program and using his own. The process transfers all of Pym's latent psychological insecurities as well as his feelings for the Wasp.

[Chris B]

Ultron would be feasible if Ant-Man got his own movie before the Avengers just so they could set-up the character in that.

Though I'm think that some form of the Masters of Evil, led by Baron Helmut Zemo, might be the best approach.

[Aztec]

Red Skull summons Loki to earth as to serve as its Aryan ruler. Remember the Nazis were very interested in Norse mythology and viewed them as supermen. What would be more appealing to a Nazi true believer like Red Skull then an actual evil Norse God??

Loki
Red Skull
Asgardian Monsters
Neo-nazis

vs.

S.H.I.E.L.D.
The Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America)

[Chris Wallace]

Red Skull summons Loki to earth as to serve as its Aryan ruler. Remember the Nazis were very interested in Norse mythology and viewed them as supermen. What would be more appealing to a Nazi true believer like Red Skull then an actual evil Norse God??

Loki
Red Skull
Asgardian Monsters
Neo-nazis

vs.

S.H.I.E.L.D.
The Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America)Not bad. Has a bit of "Ultimate Alliance" with the animated movie. It could work. But I still have to stress that I want their 616 personalities.

[The Question]

Red Skull summons Loki to earth as to serve as its Aryan ruler. Remember the Nazis were very interested in Norse mythology and viewed them as supermen. What would be more appealing to a Nazi true believer like Red Skull then an actual evil Norse God??

Loki
Red Skull
Asgardian Monsters
Neo-nazis

vs.

S.H.I.E.L.D.
The Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America)

The problem with that is Loki is hardly the first God that would come to mind when one wants to rule the world. He's a trickster. And agent of chaos. He's much more interested in causing trouble for the Aesir than taking over the world, and the myths are pretty clear about that. Hell, if the Red Skull were going to invoke any norse Gods, it would probably be Odin or Thor.

[FaT_tONle]

Loki AND Red Skull is too much of a retread... I like the neo-Nazi/Aryan/Norse God angle... but it is still a bit of a stretch. I'd use one of those guys... although I don't think it's safe using Red Skull in Avengers and Captain America because people may not have taken the opportunity to see the Captain America movie... so I don't want a cliff hanger that leads into Red Skull in the modern day. Cap should be a stand alone film... just make the stories separate... other than the freezing in the block of ice and restoration into the modern day of course. Baron Zemo is a better choice for a former WWII villain.

[The Question]

The original Zemo should be one of the villains, along with The Red Skull, in the Captain America film. His son should be the Zemo in The Avengers.

[Aztec]

The problem with that is Loki is hardly the first God that would come to mind when one wants to rule the world. He's a trickster. And agent of chaos. He's much more interested in causing trouble for the Aesir than taking over the world, and the myths are pretty clear about that. Hell, if the Red Skull were going to invoke any norse Gods, it would probably be Odin or Thor.

Well Loki's chaos could help fuel Red Skull's attempts to impose his desired Fourth Reich. There's no better villains than nazi villains! This is what I'd like to see.

[Nirvana]

Hulk
The Leader

[The Question]

Well Loki's chaos could help fuel Red Skull's attempts to impose his desired Fourth Reich. There's no better villains than nazi villains! This is what I'd like to see.

Loki's chaos is counter-intuitive to the Skull's plans. If Loki has proven himself to be anything, it's fairly anti-authority. Using him to set up an authoritarian government isn't gonna work out so well. Now, Loki has attempted to conquer Asgard before. But that was specifically so he could punish the Asgardians. He'd have no interest in ruling Earth, and odds are would strongly dislike The Red Skull from the get-go.


Now, Loki manipulating the Skull, or as I would prefer, Zemo and his Masters, into destroying Thor and his band of heroes, that I could dig.

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah I can't see Loki working under anyone unless he turns on them later... but then the plot becomes too complicated... something like a POTC sequel where there are millions of agendas and side plots. You get wrapped up in that stuff and you make a less than average film.

[marcvader]

I could never see Loki following anyone. Especially mortals.

[Aztec]

I'm not saying that Loki should serve Red Skull, I'm saying vice versa. Red Skull summons Loki to earth to rule. A Norse god would be the ultimate being to a hardcore Nazi like Red Skull. There's no way Loki would serve Red Skull, unless whatever means RS used to bring Loki here also control him?

[FaT_tONle]

Loki and Skull in one movie is like having two big ****s in the same pants... too much testosterone to go around... with Avengers... it HAS TO BE about the heroes... if it's a villain driven story it won't be a successful movie... the villains should just be secondary to drive the plot. Having two A-list villains like that is too much for one film... given the fact that we'd have already seen these guys as major villains prior.

[The Question]

But Loki isn't the type of Norse figure that The Red Skull would look up to. He's a trickster, a mad man, a dissident, a bringer of chaos, and hell, he's not even a god. He's a runt giant who knows magic. The Red Skull would look up to the likes of Odin and Thor. And in the end, I doubt The Red Skull is the type to be huge into the Norse gods anyway. The Nazis used Norse iconography quite a bit, but only a handful were actually that into occult craziness. Most were just soldiers doing their jobs, and that's the category The Red Skull usually falls into. I highly empowered, highly skilled, highly important soldier, but a solider none the less. I think if you want to fit Nazis into the plot, you have either the Skull or Zemo leading a group that's manipulated by Loki.

The idea I had was to have Loki manipulating both The Hulk, who's serving as a random engine of destruction, as well as The Masters, a small shadowy criminal organization led by Helmut Zemo, the son of a Nazi war criminal who was an enemy of Cap's, who was an anti-communist guerilla before the Berlin wall fell, and now lives the duel life or rich Euro-trash by day and leader of a mysterious, power hungry criminal cabal by night. It should seen to the audience that The Masters are manipulating The Avengers and The Hulk, as well as several political, military, and law enforcement figures in some kind of bit for power, until it's revealed that they have in turn been used by Loki, whos' simply out to screw over Thor and the little band of freaks he;s given his patronage.

[GL1]

You can't introduce the Avengers (even if they all come from their own solo movies, which they won't if you have more than 4), and the Masters of Evil. You need a solo villain who can believable and easily vanquish the Avengers, who's also capable of doing something that needs Avenging so that their name can make sense.

Ultron, please... thank you.

[November Rain]

it sounds crazy but i wouldn't actually mind them going up against marvel zombie versions of themselves that loki's released from an alternate universe.

[WeaponXProject]

I think that is a terrible idea. ^^^^


That would be Direct to DVD. Be more realistic here.

[Rich Santoro]

My vote is for a nonagenarian Red Skull, who is a CEO of a major multi-national para-military / mercenary army... hiding out in South America (where lots of WWII war criminals went to hide). He is making billions off of providing combat forces to drug cartels, revolutionary forces, and for secret government operations (all kinds of governments... including out own... serving as a plot device for an eventual confrontation between Cap and SHIELD, for how the U.S. government is operating).

Skull has an arm of his operation, that is all AIM scientist working on weapons technology for him, as well as, working on a decades old program to make the Der Tag machine... Which is a cosmic reactor, extracting abstract life-force energy from the Earth itself... to create the ULTIMATE power. This can be foreshadowed in the Cap movie, where he thwarts the Skull's attempt at a successful Der Tag initiation in 1945. Cap is frozen, and Skull goes underground. I have loads of ideas on the Cap movie... but that is another thread... or post.

As for the Avengers... SHIELD has intelligence regarding an underground operation (the Skull's), which is one of the major reasons that they are compelled to form a special team, chartered to respond to non-conventional threats (such as a private army, seeking imeasurable power). Now, a Cosmic cube is formed, and there can be a great scene where Skull walks up to the floating spinning object... reaches out to it... and energy begins to soak into his very being. He grabs it and BOOM, the chamber with the Der Tag reaction gernerator, the AIM scientists, all the data for the process is detroyed... but Skull has the power, and dons the Red Skull mask again (he of course would be re-vitalized to a more youthful self).

So Skull has massive power, and new age AIM weapons technology (that can even knock THor and Hulk for a loop) and an army of special mercenary forces (including Crossbones). It would be an existing threat that is being monitored... SHIELD has growing concern... then when Cap is found in the Cap movie, he serves as the impetus for the formation of the Avengers in the first place (leading to agent Coulson ID'ing Stark as a potential recruit, etc). SHIELD wants a team specially trained and preapared to handle an operation like the Skull has.

[WeaponXProject]

My vote is for a nonagenarian Red Skull, who is a CEO of a major multi-national para-military / mercenary army... hiding out in South America (where lots of WWII war criminals went to hide). He is making billions off of providing combat forces to drug cartels, revolutionary forces, and for secret government operations (all kinds of governments... including out own... serving as a plot device for an eventual confrontation between Cap and SHIELD, for how the U.S. government is operating).

Skull has an arm of his operation, that is all AIM scientist working on weapons technology for him, as well as, working on a decades old program to make the Der Tag machine... Which is a cosmic reactor, extracting abstract life-force energy from the Earth itself... to create the ULTIMATE power. This can be foreshadowed in the Cap movie, where he thwarts the Skull's attempt at a successful Der Tag initiation in 1945. Cap is frozen, and Skull goes underground. I have loads of ideas on the Cap movie... but that is another thread... or post.

As for the Avengers... SHIELD has intelligence regarding an underground operation (the Skull's), which is one of the major reasons that they are compelled to form a special team, chartered to respond to non-conventional threats (such as a private army, seeking imeasurable power). Now, a Cosmic cube is formed, and there can be a great scene where Skull walks up to the floating spinning object... reaches out to it... and energy begins to soak into his very being. He grabs it and BOOM, the chamber with the Der Tag reaction gernerator, the AIM scientists, all the data for the process is detroyed... but Skull has the power, and dons the Red Skull mask again (he of course would be re-vitalized to a more youthful self).

So Skull has massive power, and new age AIM weapons technology (that can even knock THor and Hulk for a loop) and an army of special mercenary forces (including Crossbones). It would be an existing threat that is being monitored... SHIELD has growing concern... then when Cap is found in the Cap movie, he serves as the impetus for the formation of the Avengers in the first place (leading to agent Coulson ID'ing Stark as a potential recruit, etc). SHIELD wants a team specially trained and preapared to handle an operation like the Skull has.


That's a better idea.^^^^^^^^^

My vote is for Red Skull as well.

[Rich Santoro]

^ Cool...

Plus with the Cap movie, there is agreat opportunity to set the backstory on Skull somewhat, to make him more interesting for the Avengers. He is part of one of Hitler's special ministries focused on new R&D for special weapons, as well as, the development of special tactics (essentially terrorism). Skull is ravaging the French country side with some special shock troops, specifically devasting cities and villages where the Allied Forces stop and/or pass through. It becomes a means to turn the French population away from supporting the Allied troops... Like, "hey, get out of here... if you stop here to rest, re-arm, re-supply... The Skull will come to torture and kill us... GO AWAY!!! The Germans won't hurt us if you just leave."

A little nationwide Helsinki-syndrome begins to form. Cap is sent into the field with a special force, heading up a new operation called... operation "AVENGER". His mission is to serve as an icon of Freedom and Liberty... He is given the costume to be an emblem of justice fighting against tyranny and evil. It is meant to show the French populace that the Allies are ready to defend them... and hopefully inspire the people, and return their sentiment for the Allies to positive. Cap and the "Avengers" work with the French resistance underground... and there is a cat and mouse game, where Cap begins pursuing Skull's shock troops outright.

Cap defeats the Skull's forces, and the terrorist operation falls apart... Skull gets away. Eventually it is discovered that there is a research facility in the North Atlantic (some Scananavian island), where something big is happenning, and it is believed that the Skull is involved... The Avengers are deployed as Reconn, and a full on conflict between Cap's team and the Red Skull's (early version of AIM) breaks out. A direct confrontation between the Skull and Cap takes place, and Cap eventually destroys the Der Tag machine with a well placed SHIELD throw to the control panel... In true movie fashion, the whole system short-circuits, a fire starts, and the thing goes KER-PLOOEY... Skull is gone, Cap is blown into the air and down the side of a glacier... He wanders (injured and dioriented) through the ice and snow, and collapses into a deep ice crevasse and drifts off to sleep...

[Hypestyle]

...so how would "mainstream" audiences react to a robot as the main villain?

[WeaponXProject]

...so how would "mainstream" audiences react to a robot as the main villain?


Probably not too well...but better than they would react to zombies.

[Rich Santoro]

^ LOL... agreed...

Ultron as the first villain seems out of sequence... He was produced by Pym. So, does the creation of him take place outside of filming??? Is he already at large as the team is being formed??? How come we haven't seen any sign of him yet???

Conversely, if he is created during Avengers... It would also be weird to have the Team form, then produce the threat that they have to address as a first act.

Moreover, the story behind the development of Ultron is too good to just already have happenned pre-film, or to blend it in with all the other details of the team origin. A2 is the best place to do Ultron.

[marcvader]

Agreed. I want to see Ultron in an Avengers movie but his backstory is to good to just throw in there and have him be created become their villain and then be vanquished in two hours. His creation should be introduced and possibly leave evidence of his turning bad for the end of Avengers leaving an excellent villain for the sequel.

[AdamantiumWR]

Ultron will not be in the first avengers movie and neither will be the leader. Both need setting up in order to be successful in a movie like this. It will be ultron in Avengers 2 and The leader in Hulk 2. All villains that have too big a back story are also ruled out.

I think they should go with a team composed of already used villains. This way you won't have to establish a backstory and you can still get one team against another. I see it as SHIELD finds cap and the avengers are formed. Suddenly the hulk attacks and the avengers take him down. At some point we should see Red skull being awaken from some sort of cryogenic sleep or unfrozen or whatever they do to him at the end of the cap movie. While they try and figure out where the hulk came from and why he attacked someone breaks into the Helicarrier and releases Abomination and whatever villain is used in IM2 (I'm assuming it will be someone like Crimson Dynamo and he is being held by shield after IM2). Thor determains that Loki must be responsible for all this and a showdown ensues, with the villains gaining the upper hand until the hulk enters the fight.

In this scenario we get two huge and awesome fights, they don't spend much time with villain introduction, and there is plenty of room for team assembly and stuff for the fans. It breaks down real nice too. Avengers formed, Avengers fight Hulk, Villains Team Up, Avengers Fight Villains.

[The Question]

You can't introduce the Avengers (even if they all come from their own solo movies, which they won't if you have more than 4), and the Masters of Evil. You need a solo villain who can believable and easily vanquish the Avengers, who's also capable of doing something that needs Avenging so that their name can make sense.

Ultron, please... thank you.

You really need to tie the rise of Ultron into Hank's descent into crazy. Besides, you need Loki to be part of the forming of The Avengers, and his manipulating The Masters just seems like it would work better than him playing Ultron. You can have multiple heroes and multiple villains in a movie. It's very difficult, but there are many movies with very large casts like that that are considered good films. As long as the film makers realize that they don't need to give a character a massive amount of screen time to make them feel like a fully developed character, it can be done. Chris Nolan is actually very good at that, although for some reason, I doubt he'd direct The Avengers. :o

[FaT_tONle]

A council of formerly defeated villains is beyond cheeze... pick one or two returning villains max...

[The Question]

I wasn't thinking it would be a council of formerly defeated villains. I imagined it as a small, shadowy criminal conspiracy group, lead by the second Baron Zemo (his father would have appeared in Cap's film, but he wouldn't have), and made up of characters new to films who are attempting to lead a covert ad dangerous bid for power, possibly involving playing different countries against each other in order to insight a war, one side of which Zemo would conveniently be leading. It wouldn't be until the end that it is revealed that one of their pawns is in fact Loki, who's been playing them, as well as The Hulk, in his plan to hurt Thor.

[FaT_tONle]

I wasn't thinking it would be a council of formerly defeated villains. I imagined it as a small, shadowy criminal conspiracy group, lead by the second Baron Zemo (his father would have appeared in Cap's film, but he wouldn't have), and made up of characters new to films who are attempting to lead a covert ad dangerous bid for power, possibly involving playing different countries against each other in order to insight a war, one side of which Zemo would conveniently be leading. It wouldn't be until the end that it is revealed that one of their pawns is in fact Loki, who's been playing them, as well as The Hulk, in his plan to hurt Thor.

If you read the post above your previous one then you'd realize why I said that. About Zemo... we don't know if he'll be in the Cap film... are you really gonna use his son when audiences have never seen the father on the screen? Just something to consider... I don't care either way as long as we get Zemo.

And I am still skeptical about Loki working with former WW2 villains even though I suggested it previously... even if he is to turn on everyone in the end... the more villains you add that are too dissimilar (ala SM3) the harder it becomes to get things to work. Loki as the opening villain... or the climactic villain... by himself... that can work. But that is not enough of a threat IMO.

[The Question]

If you read the post above your previous one then you'd realize why I said that. About Zemo... we don't know if he'll be in the Cap film... are you really gonna use his son when audiences have never seen the father on the screen? Just something to consider... I don't care either way as long as we get Zemo.

And I am still skeptical about Loki working with former WW2 villains even though I suggested it previously... even if he is to turn on everyone in the end... the more villains you add that are too dissimilar (ala SM3) the harder it becomes to get things to work. Loki as the opening villain... or the climactic villain... by himself... that can work. But that is not enough of a threat IMO.

Well, obviously I'm speaking in terms of ideal. Hopefully the original Zemo will be in the first Cap film as one of the main villains, even if he's playing second fiddle to The Red Skull.

As for your second comment: Loki wouldn't be working with them. He'd be using them. Making them dance to his tune. Ideally, there should be hints of his involvement throughout the film, just very subtle ones, but his role should be similar to Thor's role on the Avengers in one respect. He's a mythical being who is giving this group his patronage. In Thor's case, he fights alongside The Avengers. In Loki's case, he pushes and prods The Masters in the right direction, but is ultimately using them to hurt Thor.

[FaT_tONle]

Loki just gunning for Thor the whole film is kind of a lame concept... they have to come up with a better grand scheme than that.

[The Question]

Loki just gunning for Thor the whole film is kind of a lame concept... they have to come up with a better grand scheme than that.

But that's what Loki is about. His evil stems entirely from his desire to hurt the people who, at one point, he tried to think of as his family. He doesn't really want power, his plans for conquering Asgard more being so he'd have a position of authority from which to torment the Asgardians, he rarely cares much for humans either way, and has sometimes even displayed a certain fondness for them. The only thing that drives him is his desire to break the royal family of Asgard and have every citizen of it watch before he burns the whole damn place to the ground.

[FaT_tONle]

Well they can do most of that in the Thor movie... obviously Loki will be in that. I get that Loki was the first Avenger villain and all... and he'd be pretty high on my list of villains because of that... but if you start jamming Masters of Evil and Loki and the Avengers and maybe an Ultron setup into the first film it will be too crowded for my taste... you have to pick one main villain... Loki AND Zemo might be a little too much... your suggestions certainly doesn't convince me it would work... I think it could work but I wouldn't go about it that way.

[The Question]

I don't see why you have to pick one main villain. Almost every comic book movie only has one main villain, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to go. In fact, at this point it's becoming a cliche. Too many super hero films are falling into a formula, which, if the very best of comic book adaptations has anything to say, isn't the best way to make a really good movie. It's entirely possible to have multiple villains. It's hard, yes. Takes some very talented writers and actors. But if the movie has the talent, it's more than possible.

[broblacksteel]

Can we all agree that the avengers should have 2 villians? What threat can possibly destroy the avengers by themselves? Every villian that has named will have ALREADY made an appearance in a solo movie thor/loki, cap/red skull, it seems fighting the HULK in the first hour, while the other threat is being developed/plotted out (ULTRON) is the best move. Ultron is a damn robot, we dont need a tremendous back story for him, let pym get his feeling hurt in the 1st 45min, he makes Ultron half way thru the movie. Ultron starts destroying the city within the last 30min and Finally the HULK shows up in the last 15 min to help the avengers out....ba da bing...done!!!:bh: (of course the military/shield will be scattered throughout the film)

[FaT_tONle]

Nolan's Batmans pretty much had one main villain. I mean look at SM3... it was a disaster. I understand that Avengers is pure popcorn and cheeze... but you don't have to go overboard like a Transformers. There is a fine line that separates pure popcorn/eye candy films from movies that take themselves too seriously. Overloading with "A" list villains is going over board... it will end up being a POTC 3 or SM3. You want to get Loki in there to respect the origin... but are you gonna hapass him for the first 20 minutes ONLY of Avengers when he was already featured as a formidable "A" list villain in the Thor movie... never to be heard from again? Or are you gonna make him the featured guy pulling the strings and make the freaking Masters of Evil (even though they won't be exactly that in a live action film) look like lame ass pawns? Someone is going to get the "B" list treatment... if not "C" list treatment. I would be EXTREMELY selective if I end up using both those guys because if you would be treading that razor thin line if you go that direction.

[Spider-Vader]

Ultron.
Masters of Evil for the second movie.
Skrulls for third or maybe for a bigger cross-over if Marvel can get FF rights back.

[Darthkush]

I picked Masters of evil, mostly cause I want Baron Zemo but you could easily switch it up an bit and have him lead Hydra and it'd work just as well.

[broblacksteel]

Too bad an avengers script wont be solid until almost the end of next year... :whatever:

[FaT_tONle]

I picked Masters of evil, mostly cause I want Baron Zemo but you could easily switch it up an bit and have him lead Hydra and it'd work just as well.

Yeah that works... but since the bad guys need muscle... I think I'd prefer using Leader as a supporting villain instead of Loki... assuming Zemo is one of the main villains. Leader's obsession with the Hulk and his gamma mutate army could be a considerable foe to both Thor AND the Avengers... who knows... or just bring back Abomination although that is a rehash. That's something that MIGHT work better IMO... add an armored villain and I think we'd be set... although I don't have a huge problem with Loki instead.

[The Question]

Nolan's Batmans pretty much had one main villain. I mean look at SM3... it was a disaster. I understand that Avengers is pure popcorn and cheeze... but you don't have to go overboard like a Transformers. There is a fine line that separates pure popcorn/eye candy films from movies that take themselves too seriously. Overloading with "A" list villains is going over board... it will end up being a POTC 3 or SM3. You want to get Loki in there to respect the origin... but are you gonna hapass him for the first 20 minutes ONLY of Avengers when he was already featured as a formidable "A" list villain in the Thor movie... never to be heard from again? Or are you gonna make him the featured guy pulling the strings and make the freaking Masters of Evil (even though they won't be exactly that in a live action film) look like lame ass pawns? Someone is going to get the "B" list treatment... if not "C" list treatment. I would be EXTREMELY selective if I end up using both those guys because if you would be treading that razor thin line if you go that direction.

SM3 wasn't a disaster because it had too many villains. SM3 was a disaster because they had a lot of villains and completely ****ed it up. And it's not about making characters look lame or cool. It's about crafting a good story. Yes, there is potential for The Masters looking like lame ass pawns, as you put it, with Loki pulling the strings. But only under the pen of a writer who isn't up to the task. No one would think someone was a lame ass pawn if The Devil was manipulating them. It's what he does. Loki is no different. And the fact is, it's not as if Loki would screw over The Masters and make them look like fools. They'd be getting exactly what they wanted: power. Loki would simply have helped them along the way. The Masters would simply have formed a beneficial alliance, albeit one they weren't entirely aware of the full nature of it.

Also, I really don't want The Avengers to be pure popcorn and cheez. I mean, I want it to be fun. Of course. It should be incredibly fun. But it shouldn't be a movie that asks you to turn off your brain for two or three hours. The characters in it are better than that. It should be about something. It shouldn't be all dark and moody and philosophical, but the creators should actually strive to make a really well made, great film, not just a brightly colored action flick.

[FaT_tONle]

I just see Avengers as an origin movie... we need at least these three things:

1) Formation/purpose
2) Hulk conflict
3) Captain America transition...

None of those include villains. As I said... the villains of the first movie should be largely secondary to the overall theme... they should be there to just drive the plot. It should not be a villain oriented story like a Nolan Batman. Loki could potentially be a secondary character that can drive a plot because he is an obvious villain and he is formidable enough, but you wonder how long the antics will last the SECOND time around. Zemo is a better choice as far as a straightforward villain, although less formidable, that can drive a simple conflict forward, and he is a good continuation of the Cap film. Ultron is not an obvious villain... he is a villain that can carry a movie by himself. The first movie does not need that.

[The Question]

I disagree. The villains shouldn't be second to the theme, they should highlight the theme, whatever it may be.

[WeaponXProject]

I just see Avengers as an origin movie... we need at least these three things:

1) Formation/purpose
2) Hulk conflict
3) Captain America transition...

None of those include villains. As I said... the villains of the first movie should be largely secondary to the overall theme... they should be there to just drive the plot. It should not be a villain oriented story like a Nolan Batman. Loki could potentially be a secondary character that can drive a plot because he is an obvious villain and he is formidable enough, but you wonder how long the antics will last the SECOND time around. Zemo is a better choice as far as a straightforward villain, although less formidable, that can drive a simple conflict forward, and he is a good continuation of the Cap film. Ultron is not an obvious villain... he is a villain that can carry a movie by himself. The first movie does not need that.


So the villains should be secondary...kinda like Iron Man. Iron Man was essentially about how he became who he is and what it's like to be him and less about villains. That could work. It would be more interesting to see how and why they become a team in the Avengers then about who they are fighting. Or maybe it will be a mixture of both. They have to become a team bc they are the only ones that can fight against the villain.

[Rich Santoro]

Question
I disagree. The villains shouldn't be second to the theme, they should highlight the theme, whatever it may be.

I fully agree with this... The reason that Spiderman is such a great character, is his rogues gallery, and how they are intertwined with him personally, and in his story... and how it all impacts Peter Parker as a person.

Even in the IM film, Ironmonger was a manifestation of the ills that changed Tony Stark... of what compelled him to become IM. Of what motivates him to be a hero. He was ready to give up in that cave, but he realized that he had to do something. He wasn't just trying to escape... he wanted to destroy the weapons stock-pile while he was at it. He also went after the 10-Rings when he saw them terrorizing and killing people using his weapon systems. There was the diatribe in his shop, where he told Pepper, there is only the next mission, and nothing else... The press conference were he wanted to re-direct Stark Industries...

That was the theme... he wanted to protect people that are in danger because of him... Enter Stane, who was everything that Stark was trying to stand against... Stane craved power and wealth and control... And along these lines, Ironmonger was yet another bastardization of Stark technology, being used for ill-purposes. So, Stane and Ironmonger were centerpieces to the IM movie-theme. The movie was not just about, "how" he made the suit and became the figure known as IM. That movie was about "why" he built the armor and became the figure known as IM... Closely tied to that theme, and actually accentuating it was Ironmonger, the personification of the "reason why". In this vein, Stane was the more perfect villain for the first movie.

[Rich Santoro]

So... with that in mind... The villain(s) ought to be linked to the very idea of why a super-team is necessary. Where, one being cannot handle the threat... Their abilities compliment each other, as to face a variety of obstacles... They are heros looking to protect and defend, where the villain(s) are looking to opress and manipulate.

These contrasts need to be there to heighten the "hero's motivation" and serve to justify the team's formation (I think that the villain should be pre-existing to the Avengers, which serves as the reason for which Fury wants to make a team in the first place).

[Anubis]

I'm thinking Hulk/ some bigger threat. What that threat could be? I don't really know. Skrulls? Loki? I don't know, either could work.

[Rich Santoro]

My problem with the Hulk as the primary threat for the Avengers, is that he is not really a global threat... He is a physical threat (can even trash a city if given long enough) but he is in no way as dangerous to society as a subversive, underground organization with influence, resources, and weapons of mass destruction would be. Hitler, a normal person in a physical sense, was far more of a threat to the world than a rampaging monster.

I just don't like pure physical threats at this point... In needs to be deeper and more complex. Case in point, was the Joker in TDK. He was not a physical threat, but he had the wiles and eventual resources (after a very effective recruitment campaign) to bring down an entire city. Additionally, look at the League of Shadows in BB... likewise, they were a threat to the entire city, literally from the shadows... not as a physical threat.

Mind you, this is not to say that a Hulk "freak-out" causing a fight sequence with rest of Avengers, wouldn't be cool.

[Chris Wallace]

I don't see why you have to pick one main villain. Almost every comic book movie only has one main villain, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to go. In fact, at this point it's becoming a cliche. Too many super hero films are falling into a formula, which, if the very best of comic book adaptations has anything to say, isn't the best way to make a really good movie. It's entirely possible to have multiple villains. It's hard, yes. Takes some very talented writers and actors. But if the movie has the talent, it's more than possible.

A team of heroes generally requires more than one villain (FF notwithstanding.) But somebody needs to be in charge. The X-Men took on Magneto and the Brotherhood, Stryker & his army, then Magneto & the new brotherhood. But there was always a baddie in charge. Therefore, there was one main villain. Now separate villains w/slightly different but overlapping agendas (Blade II) can work, but it's difficult.
I stick to what I originally thought. Human villains causing trouble, w/Loki at the helm. This justifies everything up to & including Thor's involvement, IMO. I do NOT want them going up against the Hulk, as I view the Hulk as a good guy.:bh:

[WeaponXProject]

I see what Rich means that Ironmonger was the mess he created and that he felt obligated and to become Iron Man. I also see that Tony created his own monster and is responsible for what some of the weapons turned on the ones he wants to protect. It was a spark at what America has done when it comes to dealing arms with the wrong people and how money becomes the reason why.

Another reason Iron Man was so great was the character of Tony Stark. His funny sides, his irresponsible and lack of care before he had realized he put his own people in harms way. I think the development of Tony was the most important part of the movie.

I would understand if the Avengers was character driven but I would like it to take a more dramatic aspect for the protection of America and the world. I don't want it to be a campy movie where they come together and pound the competition. I want to see why they came together and the enemy being the reason.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I actually think The Sentry might be the villain in the Avengers movie, hence why they would need heavyweights like Hulk and Thor.

[marcvader]

Why do you think that?

[[A]]

^ because of what he said..?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Yeah, just a feeling I have.

[marcvader]

^ because of what he said..?
Really, you don't say. I was asking to know why he thought that this. Has he seen something somewhere else to lead to believe that.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^As I said, just a feeling I have, mainly because it makes business sense, get as many of your major characters in there as possible, Marvel are going to probably want to make a Sentry movie one day, getting him in the Avengers would be a perfect way of getting him known to the mainstream.

This also probably means Marvel are going to fit in as many characters they own as they can IMO.

[Anubis]

No Sentry. Just, no.

[louiebling$]

I would love to see sentry introduced... I just don't see how he would work as the villian? Maybe as the void but that's a big maybe.

[Chris Wallace]

I actually think The Sentry might be the villain in the Avengers movie, hence why they would need heavyweights like Hulk and Thor.

I find it very unlikely. Most film franchises start first & foremost with more established/recognizable characters, even among those who may not have hit outside media yet. Spider-Man started out w/Green Goblin, not Venom. Batman started out w/Joker, not Bane. Besides which, Sentry is pretty much a Superman knockoff, so I really don't see it happening.

[The Question]

A team of heroes generally requires more than one villain (FF notwithstanding.) But somebody needs to be in charge. The X-Men took on Magneto and the Brotherhood, Stryker & his army, then Magneto & the new brotherhood. But there was always a baddie in charge. Therefore, there was one main villain. Now separate villains w/slightly different but overlapping agendas (Blade II) can work, but it's difficult.
I stick to what I originally thought. Human villains causing trouble, w/Loki at the helm. This justifies everything up to & including Thor's involvement, IMO. I do NOT want them going up against the Hulk, as I view the Hulk as a good guy.:bh:

That's more or less what I was saying, although Loki shouldn't obviously be at the helm, simply because being behind the scenes pulling the strings is his style, and it will give the other villains more screen time and make for a nice twist if his presence is mostly felt until the end. As for The Hulk, I think he should fight the team initially, as a nod to how the comics happened originally, due to Loki's master plan, and have him fight the baddies at the end.

Honestly, even though the characterizations should be closer to 616 in a film, I think the storyline of Ultimates, which essentially took the basic idea of The Avengers' origin (team comes together to fight The Hulk and is caught up in Loki's manipulations) and stretched it out into 23 or 24 issues, is a good blueprint on how to take the fairly straightforward origin story and turn it into something with both gravitas and actually important social and human themes worth being a major motion picture.

[FaT_tONle]

Iron Monger was a complete joke of a villain... the last fifteen minutes felt like a cartoon... I liked Bridge's Obidiah but his Iron Monger was brutal.... BRUUUUUUUUTAL... I am not saying they shouldn't give villains screen time. I am just saying... if you are going to use two main villains like that... you are sacrificing development of the villains. X-Men films really only had Magneto for the most part. Maybe you can equate Loki's role to Magneto's role in X-2. I can see that working. Loki playing both sides... it's not a terrible thought... just tough to pull off IMO.

[The Question]

Iron Monger was a complete joke of a villain... the last fifteen minutes felt like a cartoon... I liked Bridge's Obidiah but his Iron Monger was brutal.... BRUUUUUUUUTAL... I am not saying they shouldn't give villains screen time. I am just saying... if you are going to use two main villains like that... you are sacrificing development of the villains. X-Men films really only had Magneto for the most part. Maybe you can equate Loki's role to Magneto's role in X-2. I can see that working. Loki playing both sides... it's not a terrible thought... just tough to pull off IMO.

I wouldn't give Loki the screen time Magneto had in the X-Men films. His presence should be more felt up until the end. As for development, I've seen moves where characters who were in it for two scenes who felt like fully realized, three dimensional characters. Christopher Nolan, as I said, is very good at this. It takes a great deal of talent, but it can be done.

[Chris Wallace]

That's more or less what I was saying, although Loki shouldn't obviously be at the helm, simply because being behind the scenes pulling the strings is his style, and it will give the other villains more screen time and make for a nice twist if his presence is mostly felt until the end. As for The Hulk, I think he should fight the team initially, as a nod to how the comics happened originally, due to Loki's master plan, and have him fight the baddies at the end.

Honestly, even though the characterizations should be closer to 616 in a film, I think the storyline of Ultimates, which essentially took the basic idea of The Avengers' origin (team comes together to fight The Hulk and is caught up in Loki's manipulations) and stretched it out into 23 or 24 issues, is a good blueprint on how to take the fairly straightforward origin story and turn it into something with both gravitas and actually important social and human themes worth being a major motion picture.
Perhaps I was a bit unclear; I don't want Loki's involvement to be obvious. At least not right away.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I would love to see sentry introduced... I just don't see how he would work as the villian? Maybe as the void but that's a big maybe.

Well he would only obviously start as the villain with The Void, then become the Sentry at the end when The Void has been subdued.

I find it very unlikely. Most film franchises start first & foremost with more established/recognizable characters, even among those who may not have hit outside media yet. Spider-Man started out w/Green Goblin, not Venom. Batman started out w/Joker, not Bane. Besides which, Sentry is pretty much a Superman knockoff, so I really don't see it happening.

But what other villains do the Avengers have that are well known to the GA, not many, if any. I personally just see from a business point of view that Marvel will want to introduce as many characters as possible.

[Anubis]

Yeah, but you'd be a fool in touching that mess that is the Sentry.

[Matt312]

How about Loki using masters of evil ,Destroyer, Absorbing Man, Wrecker ,Radioactive Man and Ultron for the 2nd film?

[Chris Wallace]

But what other villains do the Avengers have that are well known to the GA, not many, if any. I personally just see from a business point of view that Marvel will want to introduce as many characters as possible.
I didn't say well-known; I said established.
I don't see them going with Sentry.

[The Question]

The Avengers have a rich history, with villains like The Masters, Ultron, and Kang who are so closely tied to the team that it's hardly The Avengers without them. Why pass up on all of those great characters and just use The Sentry?



Also, just wondering: If The Masters were in the film, what would the line up be? I, for one, think that the core group should be small, somewhere between four and seven, but various roles that would normally go to nameless henchmen should be given to members of other versions of The Masters as cameos.

[Chris Wallace]

The Avengers have a rich history, with villains like The Masters, Ultron, and Kang who are so closely tied to the team that it's hardly The Avengers without them. Why pass up on all of those great characters and just use The Sentry? Exactly.
Also, just wondering: If The Masters were in the film, what would the line up be? I, for one, think that the core group should be small, somewhere between four and seven, but various roles that would normally go to nameless henchmen should be given to members of other versions of The Masters as cameos.

Sounds good.

[Chewy]

The Masters I'd like to see on film:

-Zemo (Helmut) [Heinrich should be in Cap's film]
-Radioactive Man
-Melter
-Titania
-Constrictor
-Beetle [Depends on whether Sony owns his rights or not, as he's a sometimes Spidey villain]

[Chris Wallace]

He's not primarily a Spidey villain.

[Abstract]

I know he's not really an Avengers villain, but could it be possible that Marvel intends to use the Mandarin from Iron Man as the villain of Avengers? Keeping him behind the scenes until he shows up in the Avengers to be the main threat.

[Chris Wallace]

I don't really see him as the mastermind.

[Steve Rogers]

Just keep getting bigger.

Start off with the Masters of Evil

Second movie with Ultron

And cap off the trilogy with Kang or even a Skrull invasion.

[Chris Wallace]

Maybe. Not a bad way to go.

[The Question]

I'd opt for Kang instead of the Skrulls. Kang is more or less the ultimate Avengers villain.

[FaT_tONle]

Just keep getting bigger.

Start off with the Masters of Evil

Second movie with Ultron

And cap off the trilogy with Kang or even a Skrull invasion.

Yup... not sure about Skrulls though... you need to save a big time villain for the sequel trilogy. Once Marvel gets their whole universe back... then might be a good time to do Skrulls.

Also, just wondering: If The Masters were in the film, what would the line up be? I, for one, think that the core group should be small, somewhere between four and seven, but various roles that would normally go to nameless henchmen should be given to members of other versions of The Masters as cameos.

Thunder Bolt linup could work if they use Helmut Zemo

Baron Helmut Zemo
Beetle
Fixer
Goliath
Moonstone
Songbird

If they use the original Zemo then maybe

Radioactive Man
Melter
Echantress

But I'd add guys like:

The Leader
Titanium Man/Crimson Dynamo

[Chris Wallace]

I'd opt for Kang instead of the Skrulls. Kang is more or less the ultimate Avengers villain.

At one time I'd have thought it would be too ambitious to use Kang. But the right script can make it work.

[Spider-Vader]

Yup... not sure about Skrulls though... you need to save a big time villain for the sequel trilogy. Once Marvel gets their whole universe back... then might be a good time to do Skrulls.

By the time this happens we'll be in the re-boot series.

[FaT_tONle]

By the time this happens we'll be in the re-boot series.

Avenger reboot? Or reboot of the other Marvel franchises licensed to other studios? I don't know... I'd like to see Marvel Studios do at least one take on all their main characters before doing a completely inclusive Marvel Universe film... and it should be a sort of Avenger sequel trilogy... take some Civil War... Kree-Skrull wars... and any other compelling story arcs encompassing many different Marvel characters. I think they first need to get X-Men away from Fox and make X4-6 themselves... reboot FF and do another film or two with that franchise... maybe make a couple more Spiderman films with the Clone Saga in mind (basically SM6/7). And reboot Dare Devil and any other notable characters if necessary... NONE of these reboots should redo the origins in most cases, certainly not with Spidey, X-Men, or FF... but they should serve as loose sequels.

And after all of that... THEN do a Marvel Universe trilogy encompassing almost every character in cannon with the Marvel Studios movieverse... that would be truly epic. Of course this would be the 20-30 year outline so none of those films mentioned above would happen any time soon.... but something along those patterns would work nicely IMO.

[Matt312]

[quote=FaT_tONle;15932769]Yup... not sure about Skrulls though... you need to save a big time villain for the sequel trilogy. Once Marvel gets their whole universe back... then might be a good time to do Skrulls.



Thunder Bolt linup could work if they use Helmut Zemo

Baron Helmut Zemo
Beetle
Fixer
Goliath
Moonstone
Songbird

If they use the original Zemo then maybe

Radioactive Man
Melter
Echantress

But I'd add guys like:

The Leader
Titanium Man/Crimson Dynamo[/

Original Zemo FTW!

[Team Andino]

Who do you think will be the villain in The Avengers flick? Will he just show up or will they hint at it through out Iron Man2, Thor, an Captain America?

[Wesley Dodds]

Kang The Conquerer... As long as they dont make him a cloud.

[KingOfMars]

maybe ultron or kang the conquerer, or some variation of the masters of evil.

[Kable24]

The Hulk

Ultron would be cool.

[Chewy]

Loki, hopefully

[kedrell]

My vote would have to be for Kang. Bar none, my favorite Avengers villain.

[Chris B]

I'd go for some form of the Masters of Evil.

[Keyser Soze]

The Wrecking Crew :woot:

[Faded To Deaf]

I say give Ultron to the Pym movie.

I would root a proper version of Doctor Doom, but I know that ain't gonna happen, so I vote for Kang.

[lixdexia]

i want loki to be misleading the hulk, so we get a big hulk fight that leaves the avengers beat to hell, and then dirrectly after that a loki fight

[Aluchak]

Maybe they should just use Abomination, the Enemy in Iron Man 2, Enemy from Captain America, and Enemy from Thor and Ant-Man? All teaming up. So that you don't introduce many new characters, and the fight is equal.

[Anubis]

Nah. I like Lixdexia's idea. Simple, to the point, and semi truthful to the comics.

[FaT_tONle]

Maybe they should just use Abomination, the Enemy in Iron Man 2, Enemy from Captain America, and Enemy from Thor and Ant-Man? All teaming up. So that you don't introduce many new characters, and the fight is equal.

Too formulaic and campy... bad idea.

[Shemtov]

Ultron.
However I'd also like to see the avengers go up against the MoE whom Zemo Formed because of Cap's Return.

[Obi-Ron]

Maybe they should just use Abomination, the Enemy in Iron Man 2, Enemy from Captain America, and Enemy from Thor and Ant-Man? All teaming up. So that you don't introduce many new characters, and the fight is equal.

I can see setting up Loki in Thor and Ultron in Ant Man, but the others are not really Avengers villains.

[Lobo]

Hulk/Loki is ideal to me, I'd also like to see Loki with an army of frost giants that the avengers face, while Thor battles Loki himself.

[Spider-Fan]

Maybe they should just use Abomination, the Enemy in Iron Man 2, Enemy from Captain America, and Enemy from Thor and Ant-Man? All teaming up. So that you don't introduce many new characters, and the fight is equal.

Yes. The villains who couldn't beat the heroes on their own will gang up and somehow be threatening to the audience :up:

Council of defeated villains is lame. You need a new and big threat for a team like the Avengers, or for someone to get something uber powerful like the Cosmic Cube. However, just using villains who were once bested just doesn't work.

[SamuraiSon6]

Yes. The villains who couldn't beat the heroes on their own will gang up and somehow be threatening to the audience :up:

Council of defeated villains is lame. You need a new and big threat for a team like the Avengers, or for someone to get something uber powerful like the Cosmic Cube. However, just using villains who were once bested just doesn't work.


haha, awesome

[Superhero 101]

I say
Alien Invasion skrulls can be a subsitution for the Chitari
or Loki tricks Hulk to destroy New York and the Heroes unite to fight him wasn't how they did that in the original comic

[kedrell]

^Pretty close. Not sure New York was at stake, but the rest is true.

[Carlo Comicus]

Kang.

[Ace of Knaves]

Loki manipulating Hulk would be good.

But I wanna see Thanos get the big screen treatment. He can then be a re-occuring villain in other Marvel films.

[Ahura Mazda]

I'm for Ultron. i would rather see Hulk in a more heroic role but of course the idea of him being controlled by Lokin and then breaking free is not without interest.

[Keyser Soze]

I think Loki manipulating Hulk into causing destruction, bringing him at odds with The Avengers, is a good approach for the first half of the film. It lets us see battles like Hulk VS Thor, Hulk VS Iron Man. Then for the film's climax, have The Hulk join the good guys against Loki and various other minions he can threaten New York with. The question is, once The Hulk turns good, what threat can Loki use in the final battle that seems like a worthy escalation?

The Wrecking Crew are fun, they're Avengers foes, and they do have that link to Loki in their origin, but would probably be too minor league an act to follow The Hulk. And if you work in Red Skull/HYDRA from there the links with Loki could prove too tenuous. Perhaps a host of Asgardian beasties unleashed on Earth, including The Destroyer? The Destroyer is a threat you could legitimately see as being tougher than Hulk. However, my worry there is that visually he might end up being too similar to Ultron (who I feel is a must-have for the sequel).

[Lobo]

I'd like to see Loki control Hulk the way he did in the Hulk vs Thor dvd, And once that gets solved, have the Avengers battle Loki's army of Frost Giants and other creatures, while Thor handles Loki.

[WillardNation]

I like Keyser's idea of Loki manipulating Hulk and then when that stops working he brings in the Wrecking Crew.

[Keyser Soze]

I'd like to see Loki control Hulk the way he did in the Hulk vs Thor dvd, And once that gets solved, have the Avengers battle Loki's army of Frost Giants and other creatures, while Thor handles Loki.

This is probably my favourite idea thus far. It's the kinda thing that gives the team a suitably big threat to come together against, but at the same time allows the focus to remain largely on the heroes and their dynamics with one another. And it's a threat that can be topped in a sequel with a villain like Ultron.

[marcvader]

I'm ok with the Loki angle as its true to the original comics in that sense. Not sure about the unleashing of Asgardian baddies. I wouldn't mind an additional villain but the Wrecking Crew, nah. Seems underwelming for a first Avengers movie.

[lixdexia]

I'd like to see Loki control Hulk the way he did in the Hulk vs Thor dvd, And once that gets solved, have the Avengers battle Loki's army of Frost Giants and other creatures, while Thor handles Loki.
i liked that idea until hulk v. thor came out, now we've seen it and i'd like to see something a little different for the movie
I'm ok with the Loki angle as its true to the original comics in that sense. Not sure about the unleashing of Asgardian baddies. I wouldn't mind an additional villain but the Wrecking Crew, nah. Seems underwelming for a first Avengers movie.
i'm thinking the loki fight is something similar to the conclusion of ultimates 2, but not quite so large in scale, and without the asgardians helping the avengers

[FaT_tONle]

Not feeling the Asgardian minions for the final act at all.

[ChelseaGrin]

I say save Loki for the Thor movie.

Save Red Skull for the Captain America movie.

And not have Ultron because they would have to explain Hank building it.

I think the best bet should be Hulk and begin with the rebirth of Captain America and do it simular to the Ultimates. I've always thought of Hulk as being a loner with your occasional team-up and usually in the comics he's portrayed as a confused monster driven by his emotions. So why couldn't Hulk just be the threat throughout the whole movie?

[Iron_Stark]

The Avengers need to be fighting a big time villain, them fighting one of their own is already going to be done by an upcoming movie.

[Lobo]

i liked that idea until hulk v. thor came out, now we've seen it and i'd like to see something a little different for the movie

i'm thinking the loki fight is something similar to the conclusion of ultimates 2, but not quite so large in scale, and without the asgardians helping the avengers


We've seen a piece of it. But, we don't make up 5% of the general audience who sees the films. It would new to them, Loki separating Hulk/Banner and then controlling Hulk would be amazing on screen, and we didn't get to see Avengers vs Frost giants and other dark minions of Loki.

[marcvader]

I say save Loki for the Thor movie.

Save Red Skull for the Captain America movie.

And not have Ultron because they would have to explain Hank building it.

I think the best bet should be Hulk and begin with the rebirth of Captain America and do it simular to the Ultimates. I've always thought of Hulk as being a loner with your occasional team-up and usually in the comics he's portrayed as a confused monster driven by his emotions. So why couldn't Hulk just be the threat throughout the whole movie?
Loki will be the villain in Thor but that doesn't mean he can't be in both. Loki using or confusing Hulk into fighting the Avengers is actually canon so it's OK to see it on film. He is a god after all and they don't really stay defeated anyways. I agree with not using Ultron as it needs some backstory, perhaps see Pym working on him in this movie and show his eyes turning red at the end of the movie hinting at things to come.

[Ace of Knaves]

I say save Loki for the Thor movie.

Save Red Skull for the Captain America movie.

And not have Ultron because they would have to explain Hank building it.

I think the best bet should be Hulk and begin with the rebirth of Captain America and do it simular to the Ultimates. I've always thought of Hulk as being a loner with your occasional team-up and usually in the comics he's portrayed as a confused monster driven by his emotions. So why couldn't Hulk just be the threat throughout the whole movie?

Well the Cap and Thor movies will be coming out before Avengers, so there will be no need to "save" Loki or Red Skull.

They could be introduced in the Thor and Cap films, and then carry over to the Avengers film.

Why not BOTH Loki and Red Skull?

[irapogi]

Why not BOTH Loki and Red Skull?

frost giants are cool and all but i wanna see cap leading the group, not saying he cant but its just my priority

[Lobo]

Frost Giants or not, Cap wouldn't say he can't lead.

[Spider-Fan83]

I'd like to see, the Leader, working with (assuming he's in IM2 as rumored) Justin Hammer, at Hammer Industries,(or one of his other enemies) in the creation of iron armored hulk like creations

[Drakon]

Galactus. [Not Gah Lak Tushie]

[kedrell]

I'd like to see, the Leader, working with (assuming he's in IM2 as rumored) Justin Hammer, at Hammer Industries,(or one of his other enemies) in the creation of iron armored hulk like creations

Wow, that's out of left field. I don't think there's any precidence for that team up in Marvel history(could be wrong, though).

[Drakon]

Yeah, I know. But if you think about it from a marketing point of view, it makes sense.

*They've all got their own villains, which will be covered in their own movies, animated or no.

*This is essentially Marvel All-Stars, so they need something BIG, or else the whole thing won't be believable. Why would we need seven of the greatest just to take down Paste Pot Pete, ya know?

*With Big G as a F4 villain, we know that if he's in the Avenger's flick, we'll probably see at least one of the four, which would be canon anyway, so we'd get bonus.

[kedrell]

Well obviously it's not going to happen since big G and the FF are at FOX. But I was refering to the post above yours.

[Drakon]

Sorry, I just got out of work, so me brain no worky goodly.

[kedrell]

No problemo.

[FaT_tONle]

I'd like to see, the Leader, working with (assuming he's in IM2 as rumored) Justin Hammer, at Hammer Industries,(or one of his other enemies) in the creation of iron armored hulk like creations

When was this reported???

Anyhow... my ideal Masters of Evil team... Baron Zemo, Leader, Count Nefaria, Loki. Mostly new blood other than Loki... new kinds of threats. Potential to be more formidable than the Avengers themselves if used right. As far as Red Skull and Mandarin.... they really should stay in the solo franchises. I'd say the same for Leader but Hulk may not get sequels and Loki makes sense to begin with because he was the first Avenger villain.

[Chewy]

About a hundred times? Rockwell himself has confirmed he's playing Hammer.....

[FaT_tONle]

I thought he had Leader in IM2... then I went to the IM thread and saw no such report... so I asked...

[The Sarge]

While Ultron is my favorite villain to team up against the avengers, I think he should be saved for a sequel. Maybe introduce Ultron-1 in the first movie. Help us get a sense of Pyms character as well as delve into the "innocent machine turns evil" concept.

[Superhero 101]

Abomination Loki Ultron and Iron Monger would be a good combination of villains

[irapogi]

Abomination Loki Ultron and Iron Monger would be a good combination of villains

except iron monger's dead
so unless they retrieve and fix his armor, then get someone else to pilot it, ...
i'm sure he'll get another ironmonger/bigger meaner version of ironman in the sequel.

[irapogi]

While Ultron is my favorite villain to team up against the avengers, I think he should be saved for a sequel. Maybe introduce Ultron-1 in the first movie. Help us get a sense of Pyms character as well as delve into the "innocent machine turns evil" concept.

double agree, ultron's too badass to be shoved thru the first film.
It's like people who wanted venom in sm3, i wanted him to be left in the very end, like he's covered in the symbiote, so at least there would be build-up .. you just cant rush things like these.

[Rich Santoro]

I would really like to see Red Skull with AIM behind him. Skull is a ex-Nazi in hiding out in South America. Along with AIM scientists, he has assembled a state of the art mecrenary army, making millions off of the seemingly never-ending revolutions and drug wars in South America.

The Cosmic Cube comes into play, and the Skull steals a move from Count Nefaria's play-book... in taking Washington DC hostage. Between the Cube and some high-tech weapons that could knock Hulk and Thor for a loop, and some supporting villains like Crossbones, this could be a major story. The assault on DC could even be the final piece that finally draws the team together.

[bruce_kent]

I think that the first villain in The Avengers movie should be the Hulk, as in the comics and animated movies Ultimate Avengers

http://marvel.toonzone.net/mafeatures/ultavengers/bios/hulk/18.jpg

And in the sequel should be the main villain Chitauri Nazi Herr Kleiser and also briefly introduce the character Black Panther, as in the movie Ultimate Avengers 2

http://marvel.toonzone.net/mafeatures/ultavengers/bios/herrkleiser/01.jpg

Bye

[lixdexia]

chitari is just a stand in for skrulls, and klieser is just a stand in for the red skull, so no. plus WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THOSE MOVIES!!!! we don't need to see them again.

[StreetWarrior]

For the first movie, Marvel should start off easy by letting the audience get to know the Avengers and their formation and interactions. Their first threat should be the Hulk (much like the first volume of the Ultimates, but with 616 characterizations). From there, they should do Ultron in a sequel and possible the Skrulls if the the movies become a trilogy.

The masters of evil might be too big for a standard movie. I mean, that'd be at least 12 different characters fighting on screen (Avengers + MoE). I just think it'd be too difficult to pull off for the writers and from a budget standpoint.

[Kanon]

Ultron! maybe the Skrulls, but you have to hint it, or start the storyline, in the other Marvel movies.

God, I didn't know we had Avengers board. I'm home!

[CaptainClown]

Actually I honestly think you could get Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil. Ignore FF continuity and reintroduce him. (shrug)

[Gamma Goliath]

Ultron

RedSkull

Baron Zemo

Baron Von Strucker

H.Y.D.R.A / Madame Hydra

Loki

A.I.M.

one or two of these guys.

[Chewy]

Actually I honestly think you could get Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil. Ignore FF continuity and reintroduce him. (shrug)
Fox owns the film rights to Doom

[bryanss3]

no HYDRA on the poll :(

[CaptainClown]

Fox owns the film rights to Doom
buy it back then use him Doom isn't going anywhere currently

[Faded To Deaf]

buy it back then use him Doom isn't going anywhere currently


Doom would be awesome to see in his full potential, I'd admit, but if that's not going to happen, and I'm guessing it won't, I want Kang.

Red Skull is Captain America's, Loki is Thor's and Ultron should be an Antman villain, because Antman's villains are mostly lame.

Kang is the originality that would be begged for for the film.

[lixdexia]

Doom would be awesome to see in his full potential, I'd admit, but if that's not going to happen, and I'm guessing it won't, I want Kang.

Red Skull is Captain America's, Loki is Thor's and Ultron should be an Antman villain, because Antman's villains are mostly lame.

Kang is the originality that would be begged for for the film.
but think of all the time travel explination time we save by using anyone other than kang...

[Faded To Deaf]

but think of all the time travel explination time we save by using anyone other than kang...

It can be simple if you're not trying extensively to sympathize with the villain. He could show up, say "I'm am a lord of time travel, coming here to rule eternity!" fight, Avengers fail, then fight again, Avengers win. Boom. Done.

[lixdexia]

It can be simple if you're not trying extensively to sympathize with the villain. He could show up, say "I'm am a lord of time travel, coming here to rule eternity!" fight, Avengers fail, then fight again, Avengers win. Boom. Done.
but that's boring...i want the villian to have a somewhat understandable/relatable goal. the movies work best imo when you can understand the villians motives and could possibly be swayed to agree with them

[Faded To Deaf]

but that's boring...i want the villian to have a somewhat understandable/relatable goal. the movies work best imo when you can understand the villians motives and could possibly be swayed to agree with them

That is an opinion.

It can be great to have a sympathizable villain, sometimes. However, they can't all be like that, I can name several instances where the villain is much scarier because he just does terrible things, rather than trying to understand him. Sometimes it ruins the moment. Not disagreeing, just stating how it could work.

[lixdexia]

That is an opinion.

It can be great to have a sympathizable villain, sometimes. However, they can't all be like that, I can name several instances where the villain is much scarier because he just does terrible things, rather than trying to understand him. Sometimes it ruins the moment. Not disagreeing, just stating how it could work.
no, i get you:cwink:

i dunno, i'd just really rather as much time as possible be spent on the heroes and their relationships with each other. that's why i want the loki/hulk thing, both are established and you should be able to tell where they're coming from thanks to previous films so you don't have to spend alot of time devolping them but they're still more than just the guy with lasers blowing up the city

[Faded To Deaf]

no, i get you:cwink:

i dunno, i'd just really rather as much time as possible be spent on the heroes and their relationships with each other. that's why i want the loki/hulk thing, both are established and you should be able to tell where they're coming from thanks to previous films so you don't have to spend alot of time devolping them but they're still more than just the guy with lasers blowing up the city

Having Loki seems like a bias for Thor fans, saying Loki's the big villain in this universe. While he is in many ways, I can assure you there are many that disagree.

[FaT_tONle]

I think either way you have to gear the villains to one of the heroes... if it's not Loki then it might be a Captain America villain... Zemo, Skull, etc. Kang isn't really biased but I don't see them using him. Ultron as well... but I see him down the line as well. So other than those guys, and maybe Skrulls... there will probably be a bias for the villain they chose. I think you should have a villain for every hero that will work well amongst each other, but not necessarily the main villains from the solo movies.

[Faded To Deaf]

I think either way you have to gear the villains to one of the heroes... if it's not Loki then it might be a Captain America villain... Zemo, Skull, etc. Kang isn't really biased but I don't see them using him. Ultron as well... but I see him down the line as well. So other than those guys, and maybe Skrulls... there will probably be a bias for the villain they chose. I think you should have a villain for every hero that will work well amongst each other, but not necessarily the main villains from the solo movies.

I don't disagree, I would love to see the Opposite Avengers, but in a sequel. I mean they seem like something to do as a climax of the Avengers movies, not just happening right off the bat.

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah but if you are using villains that have not previously been featured heavily then it really isn't on par with a "climax" type threat... I think Ultron/Kang are more suited for that.

[R_Hythlodeus]

I want a Skrull/Thanos/Dr. Doom Team-Up and a guest appearance from Kang

[The Revengers]

Avengers: Ultron
Avengers II: The Skrulls
Avengers III: Kang The Conqueror

[marcvader]

I'd put Ultron in Avengers 2. Let him be created in Avengers 1 and turn at the end of the flick in cliff hanger fashion.

[Faded To Deaf]

I'd have Ultron as a villain for Antman instead, seeing as how all his enemies are mostly lame. Bring him in a sequel, when you have a collection of villains, like Red Skull, Loki, Abomination, Crimson Dynamo, etc. in an Opposite Avengers / Masters of Evil fashion.

[marcvader]

I'm doubtful the Antman movie's happening therfor being introduced in the Avengers if at all. In a perfect world he'd be created in Antman and turn on the Avengers. He's too powerful for Antman alone in his solo.

[Faded To Deaf]

If they didn't make an Antman movie, I wouldn't have any problem using Ultron in The Avengers. I think it would showcase Antman's incredible intellect, if they show him somehow beating Ultron.

[Chris B]

If it were up to me, my Masters of Evil line-up would look something like this:

Baron Helmut Zemo
Loki
Iron Monger (Ezekiel Stane)
Abomination
The Leader
Random 6th member (I can't think of one at the moment)

I think a line-up along those lines would be easy to pull off since all of them would have ties to the earlier solo films. Loki is of course going to be the villain in Thor and I think that in Captain America, you could have the original Zemo as a secondary villain to the Red Skull, with Helmut picking up the torch in the present.

You can easily bring back Abomination and the Leader is already set-up. In the case of Ezekiel Stane, all you need is a simple backstory where Stark didn't stick with SHIELD's cover story for Obadiah, revealing him to be the original Iron Monger. With Ezekiel wanting revenge for both his father's death and his name being tarnished.

[zeptron]

My Masters Of Evil Line-up

THE ABOMINATION - The Abomination survived the "Hulk" movie, so no reason why he can't return for a rematch, especially if The Hulk is involved somehow.

THE CRIMSON DYNAMO - It looks like Crimson Dynamo is gonna be in the "Iron Man" sequel, and CD survives, he could join the team out for payback on Iron Man

THE WHIRLWIND - He has history with Henry Pym and Janet van Dyne, so he could be Ant-Man and The Wasp's counterpart. Plus he's been a long-time Avengers villain and he's shown up quite often.

THE VIPER - Every team needs a lady on board, and The Viper is a dangerous member of Captain America's rogues gallery. A psychotic anarchist and not too shabby in the hand-to-hand combat department, she could be Captain America's enemy on the team as well as the classic femme-fatale.

THE ABSORBING MAN - This guy took on Thor and The Hulk by himself, but he's also duked it out with the entire team of Avengers. In terms of sheer power, he'd be a formidable foe (they just have to not make the same mistakes they made with him in Ang Lee's "Hulk" movie). Just make him a subject of genetic manipulation or even a mutant (or if Loki's involved, then you have your "a wizard did it" explanation)

KLAW - I'd only use him if they introduced The Black Panther, since they created each other, more or less. Sonic weapons aren't all that implausible, given the rules these movies are playing by.

As for Ultron, I could see a quick reference or two of him and save him for the sequel, where we have the Vision and stuff.

[Ironfan72]

I voted Ultron, but also like Masters of Evil, close call, either one would work for me.

[AdamantiumWR]

The big problem with the Avengers movie villain is time. Ultron is probably the best villain of the bunch as far as what he can bring to a movie. Unfortunately he won't show up in the first film because he has a backstory with pym that I don't think will make its way into the same movie that introduces pym (assuming ant-man doesn't come out before the avengers).

The masters of evil is tough because not only do you have to setup the avengers being formed but you also have to setup the masters of evil being formed which to me sounds like alot to do in one movie. The other problem with the masters of evil is paying all the high profile actors that will probably have to be cast to play them along with the already large salries of the actors playing the avengers.

Since the solo movies (with the exception of Thor for obvious reasons) are set in the real world the skrulls seem like they wouldn't fit.

To me what makes the most sense is two previously used villains, my guess is red skull and loki, teaming up. With red skull you can have the global threat and loki can turn Bruce Banner into the Hulk resulting in an avengers vs hulk fight at the end. I think they will set Ultron up in the first film to be used in the second one. I don't see there being a 3rd Avengers movie because of the time it takes to make them along with the age of the actors playing key roles.

[Raiden]

I think Loki is a fine villain, but I'm not sure if he will be right for the Avengers' first movie. They have to come up with a story that has a threat so imminent and world-shattering that Nick Fury have to have all the Avengers unite to deal with this common enemy, and Loki doesn't seemed like he'll be someone that Fury will perceive as this big of a threat, because he likes to work behind-the-scene. I think perhaps Skulls (and their Invasion storyline) will probably be a better fit. I'd like Masters of Evil, but with a large cast already, adding more will just create a storytelling nightmare.

[jokerface89]

I was originally thinking of having The avengers go up aganist there famous foes from the previous flicks with even though the leader and The Mandarin have not yet appeared.But I would agree that it would seem pointless for them to go up aganist people they have already beaten but I would like to still see the leaer in it since theres a good chance there won't be a hulk sequel and since they already created him they might as well put him to use.

[MarvelFanClub]

ultorn he is hank pyms bot

[The Sarge]

How about A.I.M. or H.Y.D.R.A.? It gives a large group of supervillains for them to fight, while not needing too much backstory like Masters of Evil. Also, it plays up the alliance with S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Spider-Vader]

Ultron should be saved for the sequel. Scratch that MUST be saved for the sequel. I think the Masters of Evil would work (Loki, Red Skull, Abomination, whoever Rourke is playing if that character survives) or a group like AIM or HYDRA. Maybe the villains goal would be to get control over the Hulk, but Hulk decides to stick with the Avengers (expanding the Hulk is a hero element that was slightly touched in TIH).

[CrypticOne]

I'd like to see Thanos. But that's probably too big of a villain to start out with.

[Spiderine]

If it were up to me, my Masters of Evil line-up would look something like this:

Baron Helmut Zemo
Loki
Iron Monger (Ezekiel Stane)
Abomination
The Leader
Random 6th member (I can't think of one at the moment)

I think a line-up along those lines would be easy to pull off since all of them would have ties to the earlier solo films. Loki is of course going to be the villain in Thor and I think that in Captain America, you could have the original Zemo as a secondary villain to the Red Skull, with Helmut picking up the torch in the present.

You can easily bring back Abomination and the Leader is already set-up. In the case of Ezekiel Stane, all you need is a simple backstory where Stark didn't stick with SHIELD's cover story for Obadiah, revealing him to be the original Iron Monger. With Ezekiel wanting revenge for both his father's death and his name being tarnished.


i agree

[Jerkofwonder]

It needs to be something that is going to be seen as an actual threat. Maybe the wrecking crew, but with Red Skull, or Loki, or someone else in charge as the main villain. You want to start this off kind of small. Save the epic stuff like Ultron and Thanos for sequels.

[Rich Santoro]

I still like a major uber-tech private army that invades Washington DC and holds it hostage. Skull and AIM, with a supporting cast like Crossbones and Taskmaster (with some other tech-ed out villains that do not need much backstory)... Perhaps the Cosmic Cube would be in order to make a major physical threat.

I just like the idea that there has been a growing threat that SHIELD has been anticipating (they would be the X-Files org of the Marvel Movie verse... having files on aliens, humanoid life-forms, secluded socieites, over the top new technology, etc...) So they are recruiting the AVENGERS in preparation, rather than as a reaction.

Ultron and MODOK (since AIM would be involved) can be foreshadowed for future films...

[scatterax]

I voted ultron cause he's completely awesome:woot:

[Chris Wallace]

You just get done watching Bolt, scatterax?

[TheVileOne]

Tough call. In the comics, the original villain was Loki. Loki will already be in Thor. But will we still see Loki in Avengers at all? Kang's another one, but then there's the whole time travel issue there.

I think Ultron is a great option for the sequels. But do you really want to do Ultron right off the bat? Same with Masters of Evil.

[Artistsean]

I don't know which movie it should be, 1, 2, 3, or maybe 4,
but one of the movies should deal heavily with Hank Pym, AKA Ant Man, AKA Giant Man, AKA Yellow Jacket.
About how unstable he is. About his insecurities. He thinks he is a failure as a husband, as a superhero, and as a scientist.
Parallel that with Ultron, a AI robot Pym created who becomes an enemy of the Avengers and all life. Almost like Ultron is, sort of, an extension of Pym's personality.

[Ace of Knaves]

Ultron should be for the second Avengers movie. Maybe allude to him getting self aware and evil right at the end of Avengers.

[chronoic]

I think it should be the Skrull 1st maybe Ultron as an invading story line (reason for avengers being form)
the evil version of the avenger in part 2 (abomb, red skull, etc...)

then if they ever get all their license back do "Marvel super heroes"
do secret wars or Infinity Gauntlet

but that is just what i think. (cross fingers for Hulk vs Wolverine)

[Faded To Deaf]

I say let Ant-Man have Ultron in his movie, I mean, there is no way it's going to get any better without a villain of Ultron's calibre. The Avengers have so many villainous possibilities, while the low tiered character of Ant-Man has so few. However I have no problems with Ultron appearing in an Avengers sequel, as part of a Masters of Evil schtick.

[Angamb]

I don't know the main villains of the Avengers...

but I think it will be the hardest thing to decide...

They already have the first avengers.... but the main villain??

Wow, that is hard, hehe.

I've seen some pics of the most voted here, and I like Ultron...

I'm now starting to read The Ultimates Vol 2..... I hope to meet a main villain soon, :)

[Artistsean]

Some main villains for the first film could be:
The Hulk: In the Hulk movie they mention bringing a team together to fight the Hulk, Tony mentions it to Ross. So its logical to have the team face the Hulk first, even if its a brief scene where the Hulk lays them all out before escaping.
Maybe even show that Stark tried to get Banner to join the Avengers and use the Hulk to protect people. But have Banner/Hulk quickly exit the team for his own reasons.
Loki: As Thor's evil half brother it would be a natural threat that would bring the Avengers together, plus he is the bad guy who brought them together in the comics. He is a threat that would take more than one hero to stop him.




the Ultron idea is such a good parallel, and goes so well with Hank Pym's resentment of the Avengers. It would fit so well in having Ultron be an Avengers villain, but would also bring the Hank Pym character to the forefront of that Avengers story.
Plus he is such a massive enemy that it would require all of Earth's mightiest heroes to banned together against the common foe.

Hank is a complex character, he has lots of issues. Including some hatred of his fellow Avengers like Tony Stark, who is rich, successful, and maybe even smarter than Pym. Pym even resents his wife.
Ultron could represent the living embodiment of those all feelings.

[CaptainClown]

resents

[scatterax]

what if was a tag team of 2 major villains? like loki and ultron teaming up. that would be pretty major, and thoughs to together would be enough reason for thor and the humans to join forces, imo.

[Artistsean]

Oh, just like in the comic, Loki should manipulate Hulk into fighting the Avengers. Two villains teamed up.

[Superhero 101]

I think it should be a villain from each movie
Loki---->Thor
Captain America--------->Skull
Iron Man------> Iron Monger (someone in his suit)
Hulk-----------> Abomination

[Faded To Deaf]

I think it should be a villain from each movie
Loki---->Thor
Captain America--------->Skull
Iron Man------> Iron Monger (someone in his suit)
Hulk-----------> Abomination


I want to see it in a sequel more than in the first film.

[Superhero 101]

Yeah i guess but i really don't like the Alien invasion i mean they already kinda did that in Fantastic 4 with Galactus I would really love to see some Villains.

[scatterax]

I want to see it in a sequel more than in the first film.

agreed, but w/ mandarin instead of monger. ...and ultron!!

[LastSunrise1981]

I'd say Thanos honestly. But I think we all can agree that it's a tough call because you have to allude to the MAJOR villain the upcoming films.

[Faded To Deaf]

I want to see Kang the Conqueror myself.

[Artistsean]

first film I'd say Loki/Hulk team up, with Loki manipulating Hulk for most of the movie
and then Loki himself fighting the Avengers at the end.

I eventually want Ultron (a living embodiment of Pym's dark side), after we got a chance to get to know Hank Pym.

[TheVileOne]

I just hope its not the Nazi aliens from Ultimates and Ultimate Avengers.

[Rich Santoro]

I wouldn't mind seeing some villains reappear. It would make sense that a uber-bad-guy would want to recruit Abomination (free him from whatever containment unit they concocted).

Not to mention, they would also lookto employ any cutting edge technology that Justin Hammer develops in IM2. Lot's of ways to pull characters together...

[scatterax]

if the avengers movie ends up being antmans origin, i can see him going to justin hammer for funding of the ultimate humaniod robot (ultron) and than have justin hammer try to use it as a weapon that eventually gets out of his control and turns on all of human kind. J H could even hire the leader to reprogram ultron in the begining, and that could explain y he goes evil. or maybe loki could just give him free will or something, and ultron could go crazy from the ability to think freely. hmmmm, brainstorming's fun. haha

[Keyser Soze]

Oh, just like in the comic, Loki should manipulate Hulk into fighting the Avengers. Two villains teamed up.

Agreed. The Dark Knight had great success with basing its plot off the basic template of Batman #1. Perhaps The Avengers could be similarly based loosely on the template of the Avengers' first mission. Only with Captain America thrown into the mix too, of course.

[Keyser Soze]

See, I thought I had a good way for Loki to fit into the story for The Avengers back when Thor was set during the time of the Vikings and ended with Loki hiding out in Midgard. I figured he could pop up briefly in Iron Man 2, unnamed, maybe as some kind of shady businessman on Justin Hammer's board of directors, or maybe as an associate of Stark's father. And in Captain America, he pops up - again briefly, again unnamed - as an influential Nazi who helps establish the Red Skull.

Just create the sense that Loki has been popping up at various points in history, never looking a day older, messing with the lives of the different Avengers in different ways. Like an evil version of Richard Alpert from Lost.

But I don't think that idea would work anymore, seeing that Thor will now be set in the present, apparently.

[Ace of Knaves]

That is a ****ing great idea man :up:

[Rich Santoro]

KS - That is not bad... He noses into some of the major events in history, and thus would take interest in manipulating Hulk...

[scatterax]

edit. double post