Super Soldier Formula question

[PyroChamber]

I wasn't really sure where to post this, but something came to mind after watching The Incredible Hulk again...

I don't know everything about Captain America but from what I've read, Dr. Reinstein was killed right after the super soldier formula took effect after Steve Rogers was hit with the vita-rays. And they say that the formula died with him being that he was the only one who knew how it worked and how to make it; therefore Steve was the only person to have it tested on.

But in TIH, Ross says that they've had the formula kept since WWII.

So, what I'm wondering is...

1) If Steve Rogers was the only person the formula was tested on then how did the military have it?

2) Is it the same formula Dr. Reinstein created or is it just one the Military made themselves?

and...

3) Would this effect the continuity between TIH and the Cap movie?

[Morg]

doesn't mean the movie going follow the story line in the Cap's book

[Chewy]

In the Ultimates Bruce Banner was trying to recreate the SSS, but could never get it just right. This is likely the same thing.

[Spidey-Quad]

In 616 the SS formula was tested on multiple subjects (humans). They all had phyciatric problems cept for Rogers. I think whatever the Doc did so Steve didn't go insane died with him. As I see it the formula could still be somewhere, just not usable.

[PyroChamber]

In 616 the SS formula was tested on multiple subjects (humans). They all had phyciatric problems cept for Rogers. I think whatever the Doc did so Steve didn't go insane died with him.Which I guess would explain what happened with Blonsky.

[Obi-Ron]

Continuity restored!

[Ocramed]

I thought the implication was that the formula worked, but had horrible side-effects. It may mean that the batch used later was the refine one that would be later lost.

[aka Kal el]

I thought the implication was that the formula worked, but had horrible side-effects. It may mean that the batch used later was the refine one that would be later lost.

Or could it be that this was the version Reinstein used to create the Red Skull before he fled Nazi germany. This would explain why the formula was on ice for so many years so it could be reversed engineered.:word:

[Artistsean]

They could easily explain it away as saying after Reinstien's death the Government went to work on duplicating the formula. But without Reinstien (or the body of the presumed dead Steve Rogers) they were never able to duplicate the results so the project was scrapped.
That is until Ross, genius that he is, saw fit to use a version of the formula on Blonski.

(They could easily say the formula used to create the Abomination was not the same, but a poor substitute for the one Reinstien used on Rogers.)
That way they can keep the story from the comic of Captain America.

[Rich Santoro]

They could easily explain it away as saying after Reinstien's death the Government went to work on duplicating the formula. But without Reinstien (or the body of the presumed dead Steve Rogers) they were never able to duplicate the results so the project was scrapped.
That is until Ross, genius that he is, saw fit to use a version of the formula on Blonski.

(They could easily say the formula used to create the Abomination was not the same, but a poor substitute for the one Reinstien used on Rogers.)
That way they can keep the story from the comic of Captain America.

Not to mention... the formula that Blonsky took seemed to make him Super human, rather than peak human (if that is indeed how the movies are going to go). The formula that Ross used on Blonsky could have been a newer version derived from the original, or a doctored sample of the original, or the actual original but missing the Vita-Ray component. The issue could have just been that they are missing the vita-ray exposure protocols... There are a lot of ways to follow from what was established in TIH.

[Weadazoid]

Not to mention... the formula that Blonsky took seemed to make him Super human, rather than peak human (if that is indeed how the movies are going to go). The formula that Ross used on Blonsky could have been a newer version derived from the original, or a doctored sample of the original, or the actual original but missing the Vita-Ray component. The issue could have just been that they are missing the vita-ray exposure protocols... There are a lot of ways to follow from what was established in TIH.



I think this is most likely...


Face it Ross also made it seem like whatever that was, they had some serious problems with it after Cap got iced...


when he told Blonsky if there were any..ANY side effects he would have to reprot them and he would be sidelined.



Cap didn't get the 2 injections orgionally did he? It wasn't into his back bone was it?




what does Red Scull take, a German version of the SSS, and how does all of this tie into Omega Red, who took a Russian Version of the SSS.

[The IronMan]

In TIH after Blonsky had two seperate doses of the sss he had an additional treatment by Stearns which turned him into the abomination. The sss wasn't the only factor involved

[Jordacar]

I think the formula that Blonsky got was a different attempt at the SSS. There isn't really any indication in TIH that one serum was derived from the other. After Cap was iced, it's entirely possible that the SS program had to start over from scratch.

[WillardNation]

^^ I agree

[Paradox1]

I think the problem with the SS might be that Rogers DNA may be the key to unlocking the true potential of the serum found with Ross.

[The IronMan]

The last dose Blonsky received was something that Sterns came up with using Banners blood as a templete. That's what I got from the movie.

[unstoppable]

What I see from the TIH SS formula is that it's probably an imperfect verison of the Captain America SS formula. It's most likely the military's attempt to replicate it.

[Chris Wallace]

They could easily explain it away as saying after Reinstien's death the Government went to work on duplicating the formula. But without Reinstien (or the body of the presumed dead Steve Rogers) they were never able to duplicate the results so the project was scrapped.
That is until Ross, genius that he is, saw fit to use a version of the formula on Blonski.

(They could easily say the formula used to create the Abomination was not the same, but a poor substitute for the one Reinstien used on Rogers.)
That way they can keep the story from the comic of Captain America.

Isn't that pretty much the direction Ultimates went?

[Carlo Comicus]

I want the classic origin with Dr. Erskine!!!

[Chris Wallace]

No reason really that you can't have it*. The Hulk was clearly the result of an attempt to re-create Cap; nothing that happened prior is affected.










*Apart from the fact that not one movie origin thus far has followed the comics to the letter.

[Drakon]

There's also the chance of a TIH syrum retcon in the movie.

[roach]

my thoughts...there are two components to the SSS. The serums that is injected and then the Vita ray dosage. The government has one but not the other which died with Dr. Erskine codenamed: Dr. Reinstein. It would be the equivalent of me giving you a disassembled Mustang and telling you to rebuild it without the blueprints

[Compi716]

Let's also not forget that the serum wasn't the only part of the super soldier formula. What set Rogers apart was that he was bombarded by Vita Rays (or whatever they're called), and it was THAT element that set him apart and made him a successful test subject.

[roach]

thats what i said

[Compi716]

Oh, whoops. My bad, then.

[Triad]

Just an idea here:
For the movie they should play up the symbolism with the different components of the Super Soldier Serum. The actual injected formula is BLUE, (Like it is in TIH) there can be a RED gas that breaks down sub-par soft tissue (kinda like the green one used in the Goblin's transformation in Spiderman) and the Vita-rays could be WHITE blasts of energy that enhances the advanced healing process so that the gas doesn't destroy the tissues too much before they can heal.
(Get it? Red, White & Blue! Not too cheezy, is it?)
Anyway, rather than just a spy shooting Dr. Reinstein, the Nazis could bust in during Rodgers transformation, a battle ensues and the Vita-ray apparatus is completely destroyed. Rodgers escapes, (possibly with the assistance of a young Howard Stark?) but the rest of the SSS & equipment is confiscated by the Germans.
Later in the movie, as Cap's heroic exploits start to add up & the Nazis are in danger of losing the war, Hitler's apprentice decides to attempt the process on himself with the help of the top Nazi scientist: Baron Zemo. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it!) with the Vita-ray technology completely missing, the red gas breaks down the tissue but it isn't able to be built back up sufficiently.
The subject emerges with much of the same boosted physical & intellectual abilities as Cap but is left with a horrifying, gory, "RED SKULL" in the place of his face...
Whatcha think?

[roach]

cool idea but why/how would a squad of nazis break up the test on Rogers. One spy I could see but not a bunch of them.
Also I would prefer that the Skull not be a product of the SSS but just an evil person

[Drakon]

The idea of the colored symbolism [patriotism aside] could work in a lot of ways,, especially if they take it to an extent where the process is the same as the one the army was working on in TIH and even Oscorp in Spider-Man. Because from there, you can unify a lot of the Marvel Universe within the movies to trying to remake the success of Captain America.

[Triad]

The idea of the colored symbolism [patriotism aside] could work in a lot of ways,, especially if they take it to an extent where the process is the same as the one the army was working on in TIH and even Oscorp in Spider-Man. Because from there, you can unify a lot of the Marvel Universe within the movies to trying to remake the success of Captain America.
That's what I was going for.

[Triad]

cool idea but why/how would a squad of nazis break up the test on Rogers. One spy I could see but not a bunch of them.
Also I would prefer that the Skull not be a product of the SSS but just an evil person
It doesn't have to be a whole Nazi squad, the tests probably could be held in secrecy in a secluded location rather than a U.S. military compound. (Possibly independent of government influence?) Maybe a group of Nazi spies infiltrate the program due to the lax security measures. They take over, killing all the scientists involved that will not cooperate with them.
Stark helps Cap escape & they destroy the Vita-ray tech. on their way out.
I'm sure it can be tweaked to work.
Oh yeah, and they can have many opportunities to show in advance that the Red Skull is already evil, sick and depraved prior to the SSS process...I mean c'mon, he's a NAZI! :hehe:

[roach]

It doesn't have to be a whole Nazi squad, the tests probably could be held in secrecy in a secluded location rather than a U.S. military compound. (Possibly independent of government influence?) Maybe a group of Nazi spies infiltrate the program due to the lax security measures. They take over, killing all the scientists involved that will not cooperate with them.
Stark helps Cap escape & they destroy the Vita-ray tech. on their way out.
I'm sure it can be tweaked to work.
Oh yeah, and they can have many opportunities to show in advance that the Red Skull is already evil, sick and depraved prior to the SSS process.

According to his origin it was held at a secret base underneath a curio shop in Washington DC. The security wasnt lax just that the spy was that good. The test is a part of the military or why else would he be the Army's super soldier?
The Red Skull didnt have the SSS in WW2 and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

[Triad]

It still can be independently researched experiments for (and funded by) the military.
-and-
Superhero movies don't always follow their source material's origin to the letter.

Oh well, it was just an idea.

[Webhead2006]

will be interesting to see how they will go about the whole SSS forumla and how it will be used on steve. Though since we know they are trying to combine all the marvel in house films together they will probably want to keep things close to what was stated in TIH.

[Triad]

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked to find out as well. FA:CA has the potential to draw all the movies together. Let's hope they succeed.

[Webhead2006]

Yup

[Triad]

I know that this is cheezy self-promotion to bump this thread, but I'd really like to know what other people think of my SSS idea at the top of the page. Any other comment folks?